Military Review

"In 1991, Ukraine might not have become independent": Kravchuk's statement on the eve of the 30th anniversary of the referendum on the preservation of the USSR

115
"In 1991, Ukraine might not have become independent": Kravchuk's statement on the eve of the 30th anniversary of the referendum on the preservation of the USSR

The first president of Ukraine, Leonid Kravchuk, gave a new interview, in which he spoke about some of the details of what preceded the Belovezhskaya agreements, often called the Belovezhskaya collusion. Recall that we are talking about agreements between the then leaders of the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR, after which the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics actually ceased to exist.


According to Kravchuk, "in 1991 Ukraine might not have become independent." The current head of the Ukrainian delegation to the Trilateral Contact Group said that Boris Yeltsin proposed a confederal version of the structure of the "renewed" country.

Leonid Kravchuk:

Then we sat together with Yeltsin and discussed. He said to me: Leonid Makarovich, what if we propose a confederation? It will be like in Switzerland.

Then, according to Kravchuk, he proposed to discuss this issue with Mikhail Gorbachev. If you believe the statements of Leonid Kravchuk, then Gorbachev categorically rejected the option when "the presidents would change once a year according to the confederation option."

Kravchuk:

Gorbachev then stated that he did not agree to this. In his opinion, there should have been one president. And after that, he proposed a referendum on the preservation of the USSR. But he didn't want to change the system itself.

March 17, 2021 will mark the 30th anniversary of that, if I may say so, a strange referendum. More precisely, a referendum with a strange attitude of "aspirants to democracy" to the results of the expression of the will of citizens.

On March 17, 1991, the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the USSR who took part in the plebiscite spoke in favor of preserving the country - almost 78% with a turnout of about 80% (this is 113,5 million people). However, in the end, top leaders frankly did not give a damn about the opinion of citizens.

Leonid Kravchuk, in fact, is one of those opportunists who then intercepted the agenda, wanting to seize more power on the ground. At the same time, he is one of the perpetrators of the collapse of a huge country, the consequences of which are manifested to this day - including in the form of an armed conflict in the Donbass.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 8 March 2021 16: 46
    +31
    On March 17, 1991, the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the USSR who took part in the plebiscite spoke in favor of preserving the country - almost 78% with a turnout of about 80% (this is 113,5 million people). However, in the end, top leaders frankly did not give a damn about the opinion of citizens.
    To poke those lovers of brehat with these numbers "that you did not come out to defend the USSR." Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out! And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.
    1. XXXIII
      XXXIII 8 March 2021 16: 51
      -51%
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      On March 17, 1991, the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the USSR who took part in the plebiscite spoke in favor of preserving the country - almost 78% with a turnout of about 80% (this is 113,5 million people). However, in the end, top leaders frankly did not give a damn about the opinion of citizens.
      To poke those lovers of brehat with these numbers "that you did not come out to defend the USSR." Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out! And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

      And Lukashenka, they forgot to add, but everything is correct. hi
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 8 March 2021 16: 52
        +49
        Quote: XXXIII
        And Lukashenka, they forgot to add, but everything is correct.
        Shushkevich was, what are you doing ?!
        1. XXXIII
          XXXIII 8 March 2021 16: 53
          -25%
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote: XXXIII
          And Lukashenka, they forgot to add, but everything is correct.
          Shushkevich was, what are you doing ?!
          And this is a follower of independence - multi-vector. laughing
          1. Vladimir Mashkov
            Vladimir Mashkov 8 March 2021 17: 39
            +14
            With regard to the old bullshit Bandera dog Kravchuk, the proverb is more accurate than ever: "Lies like a gray gelding!"
            1. XXXIII
              XXXIII 8 March 2021 19: 53
              -23%
              Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
              With regard to the old bullshit Bandera dog Kravchuk, the proverb is more accurate than ever: "Lies like a gray gelding!"
              Who needs this political corpse? But the old communists, and now the young shoots, are preparing to once again turn politics around. To lead to a new stability, not to change what is needed, but to destroy what should change, since this is not right in their opinion. Belarus is now the same fuse, only the necessary changes did not take place there, but only delayed this moment. if the bulk would have demolished the power now, who would come to power? Yes, they are the communists in sheep's clothing.
              Whom did you chase on the avenues, your own, others? And I'll tell you, I drove our people there, these are people, they are ready to work, change, make life better, and not live for the gift and yell that the enemies are all around. hi
              1. Mitroha
                Mitroha 8 March 2021 20: 29
                +2
                You watch how the old man got carried away, balabolit and balabolit, he will not stop in any way. And judging by what kind of nonsense he is, obviously on drugs
                1. 210ox
                  210ox 8 March 2021 20: 33
                  +8
                  I wonder if this is when Ukraine became an independent state? He had to put this word in quotation marks.
                2. XXXIII
                  XXXIII 9 March 2021 20: 07
                  -2
                  Quote: Mitroha
                  You watch how the old man got carried away, balabolit and balabolit, he will not stop in any way. And judging by what kind of nonsense he is, obviously on drugs

                  Does it burn? wassat
                  1. Mitroha
                    Mitroha 9 March 2021 20: 17
                    0
                    Him? No idea. maybe
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
    2. lucul
      lucul 8 March 2021 16: 58
      -7
      To poke those lovers of brehat with these figures "that you did not come out to defend the USSR."

      Who came out?
      Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out!

      They did not come out - because they wanted a change.
      And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

      I do not argue with this, but the people did not revolt, as in 1917, the civil war did not happen.
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 8 March 2021 17: 21
        -19%
        Quote: lucul
        Who came out?

        Tanks came out to shoot parliament, that's who came out. the army took power. It is strange why Ukraine and Belarus have not yet united with Russia. Ukraine didn’t seem to be going, but it didn’t refuse kinship while the gas was flowing through the pipes. And Belarus at AL. it seems like he "considers" Russia as a brother, but as there is no money, so is polyzhopnost. WE are different, this is not necessary. (Kryi is not our problem). That is, even now Russia will take the rap in these territories itself, and if anything, they fought, as the hunchback said there, for a consensus! Traitors to Russia! The internal enemy is much more dangerous.
        1. Avior
          Avior 8 March 2021 18: 24
          +25
          In fact, the tanks came out to shoot the parliament after 2 years and for a completely different reason.
          And these were already Russian tanks and the Russian parliament.
          1. XXXIII
            XXXIII 8 March 2021 18: 25
            -8
            Quote: Avior
            In fact, the tanks came out to shoot the parliament after 2 years and for a completely different reason.
            And these were already Russian tanks and the Russian parliament.

            And what was the reason?)) First, they decided politically, and then, why something went wrong and the ambassador's tanks. Right?!
            1. Avior
              Avior 8 March 2021 19: 31
              +4
              Are you seriously?
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/События_сентября_—_октября_1993_года_в_Москве
              And 1991 is being discussed
              1. XXXIII
                XXXIII 8 March 2021 19: 34
                -9
                Quote: Avior
                Are you seriously?
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/События_сентября_—_октября_1993_года_в_Москве
                And 1991 is being discussed

                And in 92 what happened?
              2. XXXIII
                XXXIII 8 March 2021 19: 40
                -6
                And there was this!
                January 2 92 years
                Liberalization of prices: a shock measure in the system of gradualist reforms
                March 20, 93
                In a televised address, B.N. Yeltsin said that the crisis of power had gone too far, it was simply impossible to cooperate with the current Supreme Soviet
                Cause and investigation.
              3. XXXIII
                XXXIII 8 March 2021 19: 43
                -5
                Quote: Avior
                Are you seriously?
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/События_сентября_—_октября_1993_года_в_Москве
                And 1991 is being discussed

                91 this is political filth, in which the country was still tumbling, not understanding where it was going and to what.
                December 8, 91, end.
                Belovezhskaya Pushcha the leaders of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus signed the Agreement on the establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) and stated that the Soviet Union had ceased to exist.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 8 March 2021 19: 46
                  +3
                  December 8, 91, end.
                  Belovezhskaya Pushcha the leaders of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus signed the Agreement on the establishment of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) and stated that the Soviet Union had ceased to exist.


                  Tanks came out to shoot parliament, that's who came out.

                  in 1993 year.
                  1. XXXIII
                    XXXIII 8 March 2021 20: 01
                    -5
                    Quote: Avior
                    in 1993 year.

                    The country did not live from 91 to 93, this is one time, it cannot be divided. It's like a lump of dirt, like weeks, the dirt is the same.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 8 March 2021 21: 41
        +5
        Quote: lucul
        They did not come out - because they wanted a change.

        did not come out because they fooled everyone, announced that all the normul did not change anything except the name
      3. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 8 March 2021 23: 01
        +2
        Quote: lucul
        the people did not revolt, as in 1917, the civil war did not happen

        Happened. She goes now.
        I would call it the Cold Civil War.
        So far, the losses are borne mainly by one side.
        They are comparable to losses in WWII.
      4. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 9 March 2021 08: 12
        +1
        Quote: lucul
        They did not come out - because they wanted a change.
        Because they screwed in what should be like in Sweden or Switzerland as a last resort, but in fact Brazil came out shitty, deception as it is.


        Quote: lucul
        but the people did not revolt, as in 1917, the civil war did not happen.

        In 17, some kind of referendum was held where they recognized the need to preserve the Russian Empire?
    3. Thrifty
      Thrifty 8 March 2021 17: 04
      +5
      Honest and sane people on March 17 will light a candle for the repose of the little gorbachert's soul, so that he will not live to see that day! am
      1. Installer
        Installer 8 March 2021 17: 59
        +4
        In hell, there are a number of pans with signs - Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Kravchuk. Two are still empty.
        1. orionvitt
          orionvitt 8 March 2021 21: 56
          +2
          Quote: Installer
          In hell, a row of pans with signs

          There are many things prepared in hell and many for whom. However, we live on our "sinful land", which wears them and drank with might and main the consequences of the actions of these ghouls even during their lifetime. And they are alive and well. From this I conclude that all this is nonsense about the afterlife. If there is a "higher justice" in the world, then it is quite small. As the saying goes, "trust in God, but do not make a mistake yourself."
        2. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 8 March 2021 22: 02
          0
          Quote: Installer
          In hell, there are a number of pans with signs - Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Kravchuk.

          Thus, it turns out that Hell was also against the collapse of the Union. am am am laughing
    4. Nasrat
      Nasrat 8 March 2021 17: 16
      +2
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

      This is not entirely true, or rather not at all so ... the CPSU deceived the people !!!
      The very fact of the referendum already speaks of the path to the disintegration of the state .. In addition, voting took place in nine of the fifteen republics of the Soviet Union. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova, Armenia and Georgia officially refused to hold the referendum, and on the day of the referendum, Georgian troops attacked the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinval - which also indicates a complete collapse of the governance of the united country. The referendum itself and the questions in it were as muddy as possible. Kazakhstan (almost 10 million voters) submitted its question to a referendum: "Do you consider it necessary to preserve the USSR as a Union of equal sovereign states? ". And Ukraine (almost 38 million voters) with its additional question:" Do you agree that Ukraine should be part of the Union of Soviet sovereign states on the basis of the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine? "- specified the conditions on which it is ready to join the" renewed Union. "A similar process is taking place in Russia - at the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR, a decision is made to supplement the referendum with the introduction of the institution of the presidency.
      As a result, the population of at least two republics - Russia and Ukraine - voted simultaneously for the preservation of the USSR and for decentralization.
      1. Nasrat
        Nasrat 8 March 2021 17: 58
        -1
        January 28 1991 years

        There is information: the West has turned its back on us, the perestroika atmosphere has evaporated, everyone is waiting for our collapse. Internal information is more and more convincing that of all the statehood Gorbachev has only the army and the KGB. And he is more and more openly inclined to use them. His moral and political isolation is a fact, everything is based on inertia. The country just doesn't know what to do with itself... The money was taken away. But Muscovites, even exchanging money, were not given 50-ruble bills for their salaries in exchange: there are not enough banknotes. AND they are afraid to print them, because it is not known what coat of arms will be and how the country will be called. Not to mention which leader will have to be put on the bills



        - Anatoly Chernyaev, Assistant Secretary General of the Central Committee of the CPSU, then President of the USSR for International Affairs (from the book "Diary of the Assistant to the President of the USSR")
        1. Nasrat
          Nasrat 8 March 2021 18: 01
          -2
          By the end of 1990 - beginning of 1991, it was clear that the communist project on which the Soviet Union was based was on its way. The process of destruction began in the Baltics, the only question was how far it would go. In such a situation, there were two options: to try to keep this project by force or to agree on mutually beneficial cooperation

          - Sergei Stankevich, People's Deputy of the USSR

          The power scenario was tested in January 1991 in Lithuania and Latvia. Tanks and airborne troops entered Vilnius, the television center was captured. 14 people were killed and dozens were injured. In Riga there was a shootout with riot police, five people were killed.

          In response to these events On January 20, in Moscow, about 800 thousand held a rally in support of the Baltic states. The demonstrators demanded the withdrawal of military units from the territories of the Union republics, which declared their intention to secede from the USSR, the depoliticization of the army and the resignation of Gorbachev. Among the slogans were: "Today is Lithuania, tomorrow is Russia. We will not allow", "Freedom will die with us."
          1. S. Viktorovich
            S. Viktorovich 8 March 2021 18: 05
            +1
            There is no need to lie, it was not.
            1. Nasrat
              Nasrat 8 March 2021 18: 36
              +3
              Quote: S. Viktorovich
              There is no need to lie, it was not.







              1. S. Viktorovich
                S. Viktorovich 8 March 2021 19: 29
                +1
                Crowds gathered then for various reasons, but not because of the Balts.
                1. Nasrat
                  Nasrat 8 March 2021 20: 09
                  +2
                  Quote: S. Viktorovich
                  Crowds gathered then for various reasons, but not because of the Balts.

                  1. S. Viktorovich
                    S. Viktorovich 8 March 2021 20: 19
                    0
                    This is a reason, not a reason. I remember those times, but the Balts didn’t.
                2. Pessimist22
                  Pessimist22 9 March 2021 04: 02
                  +1
                  Muscovites wanted democracy and a better life, the rest worked, Muscovites achieved their goal, now they live better than all of Russia.
              2. antivirus
                antivirus 8 March 2021 19: 50
                0
                there were 17 million out of 8 million Muscovites and 130 pigeons from Thailand flew in for the world to croak ... what else could have happened?
              3. S. Viktorovich
                S. Viktorovich 9 March 2021 09: 25
                0
                The crowds are large, but life has shown that this is just a herd of sheep, which was being prepared for shearing.
      2. dSK
        dSK 8 March 2021 18: 06
        +4
        It was not for nothing that the States made Kravchuk the chief negotiator for Donbas, an intriguer with great experience ...
        1. XXXIII
          XXXIII 8 March 2021 18: 22
          -3
          Quote: dsk
          It was not for nothing that the States made Kravchuk the chief negotiator for Donbas, an intriguer with great experience ...

          Because "DB" was recommended, there is no intrigue there. The intrigue was when the Democrats took the Capitol, passing it off as Trump's supporters. Now the intrigue is in Armenia, Pashinyan is already hanging by a thread there, he has not long left. Well, Belarus is now taken into account, especially in Russia. So there may turn so that we do not have time to react. The Kremlin no longer has any hope for Luka, Babariko was supposed to replace him, but the beast is not stupid, he understood, and allegedly staged an attempted coup. Only the Kremlin may remain silent, and Europe will not turn back. In general, they will eat slowly. hi
      3. BMP-2
        BMP-2 8 March 2021 21: 00
        +3
        Not at all. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union is not some abstract amorphous infernality. These are specific names, "guiding and guiding". It was not 38 million voters in Ukraine who added an additional question, and it was not they who made these questions. Well, how to interpret the results of the vote did not depend on them at all ... So, it was Gorby, the EKSH who deceived the people ...
    5. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 8 March 2021 18: 09
      +6
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      To poke those lovers of brehat with these numbers "that you did not come out to defend the USSR." Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out! And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

      Few remember that six republics refused to hold a referendum on the preservation of the USSR. This is the Baltics in full force - who would doubt it - Georgia, Armenia and Moldova.
      Thus, the referendum cannot be called completely legitimate.
      Either it was necessary to force everyone to hold a referendum, or not to hold it at all. And Gorbachev behaved like Yanukovych, that is, he actually avoided making decisions.
      However, another question arises.
      Why did the communists in the localities, at least only in the RSFSR, directors of factories, collective farms, commanders of military districts not come out for the USSR? If they were all for the USSR, why didn't they defend it? Or were they not for the USSR?
      Here is a director of the state farm named after Lenin thinks: although he is a director, and his salary, be healthy, but, nevertheless, he is a hired worker who can be removed. But he had a non-illusory chance to become the sovereign master of all this, still state, good. Everyone knows what he chose in the end. Many others thought the same way.
      Therefore, the Union collapsed, and not because Gorby with EBN and Kravchuk deceived the people. Because the people were deceived by all these regional committee secretaries, directors of factories and state farms, and so on. Not all of them, of course, but the overwhelming majority.
      1. Observer2014
        Observer2014 8 March 2021 19: 12
        -6
        Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        To poke those lovers of brehat with these numbers "that you did not come out to defend the USSR." Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out! And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

        Few remember that six republics refused to hold a referendum on the preservation of the USSR. This is the Baltics in full force - who would doubt it - Georgia, Armenia and Moldova.
        Thus, the referendum cannot be called completely legitimate.
        Either it was necessary to force everyone to hold a referendum, or not to hold it at all. And Gorbachev behaved like Yanukovych, that is, he actually avoided making decisions.
        However, another question arises.
        Why did the communists in the localities, at least only in the RSFSR, directors of factories, collective farms, commanders of military districts not come out for the USSR? If they were all for the USSR, why didn't they defend it? Or were they not for the USSR?
        Here is a director of the state farm named after Lenin thinks: although he is a director, and his salary, be healthy, but, nevertheless, he is a hired worker who can be removed. But he had a non-illusory chance to become the sovereign master of all this, still state, good. Everyone knows what he chose in the end. Many others thought the same way.
        Therefore, the Union collapsed, and not because Gorby with EBN and Kravchuk deceived the people. Because the people were deceived by all these regional committee secretaries, directors of factories and state farms, and so on. Not all of them, of course, but the overwhelming majority.

        And I liked your comment yes goodI want to put on music, can I? I'm "drinking" bully But what to do? Powerful thoughts require powerful imaginative support of what is said. repeat
        1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
          Sidor Amenpodestovich 8 March 2021 19: 29
          -2
          But I like this one.
          1. Observer2014
            Observer2014 8 March 2021 19: 38
            -7
            You can like anyone and however you like. You can even swallow from like bullyThis is a personal matter for everyone. What do you like. laughing
            1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
              Sidor Amenpodestovich 8 March 2021 19: 49
              0
              The moderator replaced the video for some reason. I would like to share with you a video of the group Korn - Coming Undone.
              But I didn't understand your comment at all.
              1. Observer2014
                Observer2014 8 March 2021 19: 53
                -7
                Quote: Sydor Amenpospestovich
                The moderator replaced the video for some reason. I would like to share with you a video of the group Korn - Coming Undone.
                But I didn't understand your comment at all.
                No one
                did not understand anyone.
              2. Avior
                Avior 8 March 2021 20: 18
                0
                I would like to share with you a video of the group Korn - Coming Undone.

                this clip and inserted
      2. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 8 March 2021 22: 31
        +1
        My opinion is that the leadership was brought up without initiative and amorphous, accustomed to acting only on orders from above. The military were limited by the oath.
    6. Nikolay293
      Nikolay293 9 March 2021 00: 08
      +1
      Such a country was destroyed! I would very much like the perpetrators of the collapse of the USSR to bear the punishment they deserve! And not Yeltsin centers were built in honor of them!
    7. Quadro
      Quadro 9 March 2021 00: 17
      -2
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      On March 17, 1991, the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the USSR who took part in the plebiscite spoke in favor of preserving the country - almost 78% with a turnout of about 80% (this is 113,5 million people). However, in the end, top leaders frankly did not give a damn about the opinion of citizens.
      To poke those lovers of brehat with these numbers "that you did not come out to defend the USSR." Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out! And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

      And who came out then? Nobody, everyone was apparently satisfied with what was put on their opinion
    8. Maikcg
      Maikcg 9 March 2021 01: 07
      0
      And what didn’t come out when you read the news in the newspapers? Boris Nikolaich would sit with Michal and Sergeech in Matrosskaya Tishina ... no, on the contrary, the GKChP came out against the coup by supporting the young democracy. And the parades of sovereignties from Lithuania in 1990 earlier .. And in 93, what? The house was doomed. He could not help but burn out. And, indeed, at twelve o'clock in the morning it burst into flames, set on fire from six ends at once. And THIS came true. So it is not necessary, they deceived, they did not know. They pushed me - yes, well, and then all by themselves, fit into the market without much protesting.
    9. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 March 2021 07: 21
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      To poke those lovers of brehat with these numbers "that you did not come out to defend the USSR." Otherwise they didn’t come out, because of deception they didn’t come out! And Kravchuk with Gorby and EBNami directly deceived the people of the USSR.

      What would you come out with? With sticks and slingshots? In the early 90s, the practice began to transfer weapons and ammunition from units to warehouses. I remember leaving several pistols for the attendants.
      But, in essence, your point is correct.
    10. yehat2
      yehat2 9 March 2021 14: 24
      +1
      I learned that the USSR was dissolved only after 3 months, because lived in a boarding school and there was no TV.
      Apart from textbooks on physics and mathematics, we did not have any information.
      and what could I do? without money, without information, without registration?
      Demand the preservation of the union from others who were in exactly the same shock?
  2. Boromir1941
    Boromir1941 8 March 2021 16: 47
    +4
    to carry out a covert operation with the aim of kidnapping, to judge this to the highest degree. or as Trotsky in the head
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 8 March 2021 16: 53
      +2
      Quote: Boromir1941
      to carry out a covert operation with the aim of kidnapping, in order to judge this to the highest degree

      What are you, how can you, here Putin considers Gorbachev a great reformer, and every year he brings flowers to Yeltsin's grave. And you mean Kravchuk .....
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 8 March 2021 17: 23
        -2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        What are you, how can you, here Putin considers Gorbachev a great reformer, and every year he wears flowers to Yeltsin's grave

        Is it distorting with hatred? GDP clearly spoke about the collapse of the USSR as the greatest tragedy ...
        The rest is entourage. For multi-vector ...
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 8 March 2021 17: 50
          +1
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          Is it distorting with hatred?

          What does hatred have to do with it? Here the words from Vysotsky's song, about ttrusy and a cross, immediately come to mind. wink
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          The rest is entourage.

          This is just Putin, a multi-vector - the USSR could only produce galoshes, then a tragedy, and the persons directly responsible for this tragedy are great reformers and successful managers.
          How to be Zhenya, cross or cowards? wink
          1. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 8 March 2021 17: 58
            -2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            the great reformers and successful managers directly responsible for this tragedy.
            How to be Zhenya, cross or cowards?

            I didn't drink at brotherhood. With you.
            And as you wish. Want both ...
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 8 March 2021 21: 42
              +1
              So I didn’t poke you, Zhenya. wink Ali you see the State Department everywhere? laughing
    2. knn54
      knn54 8 March 2021 17: 29
      +6
      Deputy the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine on ideology, who in his youth (by his own admission) wore a "hawku" in the caches. What else can you expect from a werewolf.
  3. Baloo
    Baloo 8 March 2021 16: 47
    +7
    Ukraine did not become independent. What kind of independence are we talking about if there are foreigners in the government and the CIA unit at the SBU headquarters?
    Ukraine was independent within the USSR.
    1. apro
      apro 8 March 2021 17: 14
      +3
      Quote: Balu
      Ukraine did not become independent

      And which country in the post-Soviet space became independent ??? everything is under someone else.
      1. hydroy
        hydroy 8 March 2021 23: 38
        +1
        Turkmenistan from the whole world))))))))))))))))
  4. Prisoner
    Prisoner 8 March 2021 16: 48
    +1
    So they would live normally, and you are ghouls in a nursing home.
  5. U-58
    U-58 8 March 2021 16: 53
    +8
    Of course, the sweetness of power overpowered both membership in the CPSU and concern for the fate of the country.
    After all, it’s cool, overnight to stop obeying Moscow and become the most important.
    Moreover, there was already membership in the UN, thanks to comrade. Stalin ...
    Alphonses on the bones of the Union!
    1. lucul
      lucul 8 March 2021 17: 01
      -1
      Of course, the sweetness of power overpowered both membership in the CPSU and concern for the fate of the country.
      After all, it’s cool, overnight to stop obeying Moscow and become the most important.

      This is not the case, the Anglo-Saxons have a theory of how to eat an elephant. It is impossible to eat right away, but if one piece at a time, but at different times, then completely.
      Here they cut off pieces from Russia.
      1. hydroy
        hydroy 8 March 2021 23: 41
        0
        Ukraine ceases to be a piece of Russia, Central Asia is also becoming intractable, especially Kazakhstan, the Caucasus - only Armenia and is already becoming uncontrollable, Georgia without comments, Azerbaijan is either the Turks, then Russia is trade, the Balts are happy)
  6. Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 8 March 2021 17: 00
    +3
    Funny, having violated the current constitution at that time, ignoring the opinion of the referendum, these types deserve criminal punishment.
  7. Yaro Polk
    Yaro Polk 8 March 2021 17: 04
    +7
    It was impossible to separate Ukraine and Belarus, by any means, up to the elimination of these ghouls in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, and then feed the boars.
  8. apro
    apro 8 March 2021 17: 09
    +1
    What was ... you can't return it, but is there any strength today to restore what was lost ???? there are definitely no ideas, no people, much less organized structures.
  9. beeper
    beeper 8 March 2021 17: 09
    +8
    Just like the empty Marked Judo, this "newfound" Bandera Opudalo climbs the rostrum to "boil" for any reason and only angers the adequate majority of the population of the ex-USSR with its defiant Impunity ... am
    Yes, you will be lost already, pompous vile Kashchei !!! negative
  10. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 8 March 2021 17: 21
    +3
    And you freshen up the memory of the referendum. Some generally boycotted, some replaced the republic with a sovereign state. Armenia in general declared independence in 90. Although I voted for, but it was already clear that the first secretaries of the CPSU wanted to be presidents. The central government weakened, everyone arrived. !!! And it was possible to promise the people anything at that moment, so wait, we will live separately, as in the USA.
    Then Gabon. Only after 30 years they regained consciousness. The least of all live in Belarus, Russia and Kazakhstan.
    1. hydroy
      hydroy 8 March 2021 23: 43
      +1
      Uzbekistan is slowly catching up, Azerbaijan has settled well, not only Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan live well
  11. Growlers
    Growlers 8 March 2021 17: 24
    +3
    The famous liar of Ukraine Leonid Kravchuk "gave birth" to another opus
  12. Dimide
    Dimide 8 March 2021 17: 39
    -2
    As far as I remember the outcome of the referendum, an independent Ukraine within the CIS. Nobody was interested in what the CIS was,
    But since the CIS was originally a "stillborn" project,
  13. paco.soto
    paco.soto 8 March 2021 17: 43
    +5
    We are celebrating a nostalgic holiday abroad. This is the top article that doesn't interest me. Let me congratulate everyone on the holiday!
    I apologize for the offtopic - drunk, I admit!
  14. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 8 March 2021 17: 50
    0
    What can I say now. Could / could not ...
    It is necessary to proceed from the current situation. In my provincial opinion.
    And groan, but ah, it's too late ... The locomotive left.
    New hemorrhoids would not be done! We need to think about this!
    In fact.
  15. From Tomsk
    From Tomsk 8 March 2021 17: 57
    +1
    And why did they need the USSR?
    In the USSR, the communists were beggars, compared to the overshoot communists-billionaires.
  16. leks
    leks 8 March 2021 17: 57
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Boromir1941
    to carry out a covert operation with the aim of kidnapping, in order to judge this to the highest degree

    What are you, how can you, here Putin considers Gorbachev a great reformer, and every year he brings flowers to Yeltsin's grave. And you mean Kravchuk .....

    Since not wearing something, thanks
    "hump and ebn" all current
    The "political oligarchic elite" came to power and came to power.
    So they will continue to erect monuments and praise these.
  17. Cowbra
    Cowbra 8 March 2021 18: 06
    +1
    Yes, Ukraine in general could have become a country, but it did not.
  18. S. Viktorovich
    S. Viktorovich 8 March 2021 18: 06
    +1
    Kravchuk are professional traitors.
  19. Boromir1941
    Boromir1941 8 March 2021 18: 32
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Boromir1941
    to carry out a covert operation with the aim of kidnapping, in order to judge this to the highest degree

    What are you, how can you, here Putin considers Gorbachev a great reformer, and every year he brings flowers to Yeltsin's grave. And you mean Kravchuk .....

    maybe he just creates an appearance? he is a politician, you can't immediately tell everyone sharply that here he is - a goat.
  20. Sergej1972
    Sergej1972 8 March 2021 18: 35
    +4
    How illiterate they were. Switzerland is a confederation in name only, but in reality it is a federation. And the sense of rotation in the supreme collegial executive body of Switzerland is not at all in the fact that representatives of different cantons preside in turn. The Federal Council has 7 members and 26 cantons.
  21. rocket757
    rocket757 8 March 2021 18: 41
    -3
    Suppose marked and others, these are also CONSEQUENCES!
    It all started a little earlier and "thanks" to the actions of a much larger number of faces !!!
    "UNITY, UNITY PARTY" played a tragic role for the country !!!
    1. Gato
      Gato 8 March 2021 18: 53
      +1
      Do you mean Rurik?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 8 March 2021 19: 08
        0
        It is your fantasy that has drawn you so deeply.
        Take a closer look, the period on the eve of the collapse of the USSR.
        By the way, the Rurikovichs would have something to ask about, and the Romanovs ... in all periods of their creators and destroyers there will be.
        1. Gato
          Gato 8 March 2021 19: 53
          +1
          It is your fantasy that has drawn you so deeply.

          Why not? Are you not embarrassed by a strange tendency: under one-man rule in Russia there is, let's say, an upswing, and with a multi-party system and other multi-vector nature - decline and troubled times?
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 8 March 2021 20: 05
            +1
            I am not confused by ANYTHING, almost nothing, when it is in the subject, in the BUSINESS!
            I wrote about a specific period in our history, about a specific situation!
            Why was it that during that period of obvious destruction of the foundations of the state there was no one RESPONSIBLE who could give the order to cross out the activities, criminal actions of the destroyer and all who supported him ???
            Have we not found those RESPONSIBLE, who understood where everything was going and could not take decisive action? Or did the principle "the giraffe is big, he knows better" worked?
            There are many, many questions to the leaders of different structures who should have been concerned about the welfare, about the preservation of the STATE!
            Have you ever asked such questions?
            1. Gato
              Gato 8 March 2021 20: 20
              +1
              "UNITY, UNITY PARTY" played a tragic role for the country !!!

              Do you think that a multi-party system and parliamentarism could change something? It seems to me that collegiality and collective irresponsibility with the mutual responsibility of the party apparatus played a detrimental role. And also the prohibition of the state security bodies to conduct business on the part nomenclature, but this is already particular.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 8 March 2021 20: 35
                +2
                Quote: Gato
                but this is already particular.

                From all sorts of different particulars, a picture of complete, uncontrolled, power of a GROUP OF PERSONS was formed, who in one way or another climbed to the top of power! And no limiters, brakes ... bullets / TNT, what would it stop!
                A stable system must have a SYSTEM of checks and balances, not a nominal one that we had, but an effective one!
                Relying on one sovereign LEADER ... is very rash! Maybe someone will happen!
                With all the critical attitude to modern democracies, the absolute extreme of the upper ones is IMPOSSIBLE!
                Oh yes, the Bolsheviks, initially, relied on the power of the Soviets !!! this is a few later part nomenclature raked up everything for themselves and BEGINNED! miscellaneous ... it's just a lucky coincidence that the supreme leader, among other things, thought about the COUNTRY!
            2. bober1982
              bober1982 8 March 2021 20: 20
              +1
              Quote: rocket757
              who could give the order to cross out the activities, criminal actions of the destroyer and all those who supported him ???

              So after all, everyone, or almost everyone, was for the collapse of the Union - these very responsible persons, the crowd, the army that fled across the republics, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB, and even the party itself.
              Who will give the order and to whom?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 8 March 2021 20: 41
                0
                By that time, the system had developed and upstairs, under wide shoulder straps and in wide armchairs, there were faces whose personal Wishlist prevailed over .... yes, over EVERYTHING!
                There was SOMEONE to stop, dismiss, and even more so to suppress their destructive activity !!! or rather, no one dared ... "the giraffe is big and many-headed! and they are all small and better stick their head in .... sand" !!!
                The result ... There is no great country, but the fragments scattered and ... scatter further, further ...
        2. hydroy
          hydroy 8 March 2021 23: 45
          0
          there was simply no national leader, after Brezhnev there was a fuss in the Party Chairmen and that was all, it was impossible to stop)
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 9 March 2021 06: 15
            0
            Quote: hydroy
            there was simply no national leader

            Just not found ???
            The SYSTEM must be INSURED against the fact that it was destroyed by the one who found / climbed himself or was promoted by a group of faces, although they are inside the system, but constituting only a part of it, sharpened for its destruction!
            From this point of view it is interesting to look at America !!! There, just, there is an attempt to stir up the POWER SYSTEM !!! who wins, that is the question ...
  22. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 8 March 2021 18: 51
    +4
    Kravchuk is an enemy of the people, a traitor !!! His place is in prison, where he must sit for the rest of his days.
    1. Gato
      Gato 8 March 2021 20: 07
      +1
      However, he sits in TKG and chatters nonsense. Humpback is doing the same in the states. And in honor of EBN, a center named after him was built
  23. iouris
    iouris 8 March 2021 19: 00
    -1
    I could not. Because the RSFSR wanted to become independent!
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 8 March 2021 19: 12
      0
      And now, no matter who and how then destroyed, did not interfere ... these analyzes will not help us in any way now.
      So remember that there is such a rake and can be pulled out at any time ...
  24. tatra
    tatra 8 March 2021 19: 15
    +1
    If people believe that they are doing well, doing for the good of their country and people, they will never cowardly shift the responsibility for what they themselves have done on others. And cowardly dumping on others the responsibility for their anti-Soviet / anti-communist Perestroika, counter-revolution, dismemberment of the USSR, the enemies of the communists themselves recognized all this as their crimes against the USSR and the Soviet people.
  25. evgen1221
    evgen1221 8 March 2021 19: 16
    +1
    What you can't do for the sake of sole power and such a nice personal account in a Swiss bank. You can betray the country and the people.
  26. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 8 March 2021 19: 18
    +5
    And what is the article about? How an old traitor brags about betrayal? So it's high time to bury it. And cover with lime. No need to kill. This is inhumane. But bury it. Like Judas marked.
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 8 March 2021 21: 08
      0
      It is inhumane to kill decent people, and this is all undead.
      1. Reserve buildbat
        Reserve buildbat 8 March 2021 21: 09
        0
        killing is never good. Bury alive, I mean laughing
        1. Victor Tsenin
          Victor Tsenin 8 March 2021 21: 10
          0
          Oh, that's another matter))
  27. Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 8 March 2021 21: 08
    +2
    All this is funny, but history is unknown when Ukraine (made from gifts from Russia / USSR) was independent.
  28. Gregory Charnota
    Gregory Charnota 8 March 2021 21: 26
    +1
    Ukraine has never been completely independent of the word!
  29. orionvitt
    orionvitt 8 March 2021 21: 46
    +2
    "In 1991 Ukraine might not have become independent"
    Well, it’s now, does it make it easier for someone? : It is a pity for the labor of the Soviet people, who rebuilt everything in Ukraine. And industry, and infrastructure, and roads, and ports, and cities and villages, everything. And this wealth went to the "independent ukraintsyam", who, to put it mildly, asked ..... whether. For thirty years, they have not built anything, abandoned language and history, sold everything (including honor and conscience), unleashed a civil war, and so on. You can list it for a very long time, and not a single good item will be here, due to their absence. Adequate people do not understand what Ukrainians are "proud" of?
  30. north 2
    north 2 8 March 2021 22: 27
    +1
    Under Kravchuk, the so-called independent Ukraine received what the so-called independent Ukrainian People's Republic only dreamed of under Hrushevsky and Skoropadsky, Crimea and Little Russia. Skoropadsky's entourage said that the Germans wanted Crimea for themselves. This is not enough, then already in 1918 Skoropadsky began to put forward claims to the Voronezh lands and even to the lands in Siberia. And the Brest-Litovsk peace with Germany Ukraine Skoropadsky
    signed even earlier than Lenin's Russia. And all because Hrushevsky created an ideology and a pseudo theory that Ukraine and Ukrainians are the recipients of Kievan Rus. And thank God that the Lord revealed Stalin to the leaders of Russia, who grabbed all the lands of Russia into one Red Empire and the Crimea did not get to Ukraine as the enemies of Russia wanted. Kravchuk is, from happiness, fluff, when
    from the collapsed Red Empire with the participation of Kravchuk, Crimea and Little Russia went to the so-called independent Ukraine of modernity. And even with Novorossia in the bargain. And this is
    what the enemies of Russia, the Germans, still wanted under Skoropadsky, because the separation of Crimea, Little Russia and New Russia from Great Russia was and is the main task of the enemies of Russia both in the past and today. And that is why Kravchuk is so hysterical, when Russia has already returned the first part of the Crimea that was torn off from her. Nothing, Russia will return to itself and the rest ..
  31. north 2
    north 2 8 March 2021 23: 45
    0
    In the photo at the beginning of the article, behind Kravchuk, there is an inscription GOD, RODINA, UKRAINE. If God is for
    Kravchuk, as a traitor, is not the realities of faith, but Judas' mockery of God, Ukraine for Kravchuk is the result of his betrayal, and what then is also the Motherland for Kravchuk, if he already has Ukraine. What, Ukraine is not yet the Motherland? What kind of homeland does Kravchuk mean if Ukraine is not yet a homeland, but it is separated from some kind of homeland? Doesn't Kravchuk mean that modern Ukraine, as a development of the result of his betrayals, should also grow with those lands of the Kuban, Crimea, Stavropol, which Bandera's and Kravchuk's similar destroyers and traitors to Russia, the USSR and the Russian world dream about? Yes, and any Russophobes in Ukraine ... After all, they also dream of going to Moscow ...
  32. nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 March 2021 06: 44
    +1
    The leaderships of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, first of all, set themselves the goal of changing the social system. The rest did not interest them. And for the West this was the most important thing. The West began to build the policies of these countries according to its interests.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 March 2021 07: 28
      +2
      Quote: nikvic46
      ... primarily aimed at changing the social order.

      And in what ways did you achieve this? It is shameful and disgusting to remember ... They began to exterminate everything human from people by poverty, hunger (these filthy coupons and "Gorbachev's 5%"), absolute lack of rights (the withdrawal of parts from Europe and the "fraternal" republics ...
      But, the beginning was laid by these greedy, stupid scoundrels, spurred on by advisers and advisers. They put their signatures, they destroyed the statehood, after which it became unimportant who and what thought about the preservation of the country.
  33. mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 9 March 2021 09: 41
    0
    Apparently retired retired. I would like to arouse interest and feel the need and importance ...
    In essence, he is a gibberish and a chatterbox. Nothing, except for winding up Russophobia, will not be heard from him. All in one steppe! For the sake of Western curators.
  34. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 9 March 2021 11: 57
    0
    A law was adopted on the secession of the republics from the USSR. NONE of the republics fulfilled it. So everyone is illegitimate. And Kravchuk too ...
  35. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 9 March 2021 12: 33
    +1
    Leonid Kravchuk, in fact, is one of those opportunists who then intercepted the agenda, wanting to seize more power on the ground. At the same time, he is one of the perpetrators of the collapse of a huge country ...

    It is this pro-Bandera trash, disguised until 1991, the Bandera shortcomings, then felt the weakness of the power of the humpbacked idiot with his new thinking and they were eager for power, and with the help of Western democratizers they succeeded with the connivance of the Russian authorities, who were also in captivity of Gorbachev's illusions about universal brotherhood!
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