Military Review

Unknown Lever Rifles: Colt Burgess vs. Winchester

215
Unknown Lever Rifles: Colt Burgess vs. Winchester
Burgess foldable smoothbore shotgun. Photo of their magazine "Popular Mechanics"


“Let it be so,” said the mandarin's daughter. “You, Kwon-Si, will rebuild your walls for the last time in the semblance of the wind itself, no more and no less. We will build ours in the likeness of a golden serpent. The wind will lift the kite to amazing heights. And he will destroy the monotony of the wind, give it purpose and meaning. One is nothing without the other. Together we will find beauty and brotherhood and long life. "
("The Golden Serpent, the Silver Wind" by Ray Bradbury. Translator V. Serebryakov)

It has always been and will always be that, along with famous inventors, dozens, if not hundreds, of those who are not inferior to them, but ... just less successful, who “were simply unlucky”, lurk in their shadows. One such inventor-gunsmith was Andrew Borges, the same age as Tyler Henry and Oliver Winchester ...


Burgess rifle diagram of 1873. A very ingenious design! The bolt was a continuation of the lever and was connected to the receiver cover! When the lever went down, the bolt at the end of the lever became vertical and at the same time moved the receiver cover together with the extractor (!) Back. The cartridge was fed in the same way as on "Winchesters". When the lever returned to its place, that part of it, which was the bolt, pushed the cartridge from the tray into the chamber and moved the receiver cover forward, while the extractor tooth fell on the rim of the cartridge. Well, the hammer hit the striker that passed through the entire bolt


Interestingly, the legendary John Browning also patented something similar in his 1888 patent.

Weapon and firms. There was a sequel "about Winchester" - a story about rifles from "Marlin" company, and people immediately wanted "about savage" and "about borjess". But here it is: about the rifles of the company "Savage" (or "Savage"), my material on VO was (This weird Mr. Savage: rifles and gun), and this article also had a sequel, but this time about the pistol. So I will hardly be able to add something more interesting to the story of 2019. But it is simply necessary to tell about Andrew Borges, as well as about his rifles, even if they are not so much known as the same "marlins" and "Winchesters". The man had a very interesting fate, and he came up with interesting and unusual designs ...


Burgess lever rifle patent of 1880, which became the basis for the production of Colt Burgess carbines

With 894 patents on his hands, Andrew Burgess (1837-1908) is one of the most prolific firearms inventors the world has ever known (second only to John Browning in the number of firearm patents granted to Americans) and a man of all kinds of talents. except for the design of firearms.

He was born on January 16, 1837 in Dresden, New York, the son of John Christian Burgess and Ahsa Christie (Davis) Burgess and was the grandson of a Hessian deserter during the American Revolution. He was an accomplished photographer whose family farm bordered the estate of Civil War photographer Matthew Brady. As a result, Burgess became an apprentice to Brady and filmed the entire Reconstruction in the south of the country after the Civil War, and also documented the execution of Emperor Ferdinand Maximilian in Mexico. It is believed that it was Andrew Burgess who took the famous Brady photograph of Abraham Lincoln, which is on the American five-dollar bill.


Colt Burgess with a round barrel. Weight 3,9 kg

Burgess later photographed the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871 before returning to the United States. It is assumed that during the Franco-Prussian War, when he worked as a photographer, he developed an interest in firearms. Moreover, he received his first patent already on September 19, 1871, and it proposed converting the Peabody and Werndl rifles into store rifles.


Colt Burgess with an octagonal barrel. Weight 4 kg. Typical length 1,090 cm. Barrel length 610 mm. .40-40 Winchester cartridges. Magazine capacity 15-12 rounds. In total, 2,556 copies were made.

When times fell on Brady in 1874, Burgess bought his photo studio, but then sold it back to him in 1876. At the same time, being a photographer, he took several photographs of famous Americans at that time. Among them were: Edwin McMaster Stanton, Secretary of War; William Pitt Fessenden, Secretary of the Treasury; General Winfield Scott Hancock.

At the time, Colt was known for its revolvers and Winchester for its lever-action rifles. But in 1883, it was Andrew Burgess who presented Colt an improved model of a lever action rifle, essentially similar to the M1873 "Winchester", only several important improvements were made to it that made it more accurate, reliable and durable.


A noticeable difference between this rifle and the "Winchester" is the side door for loading cartridges, which is significantly shifted forward, since the receiver of the Burgess is much shorter. In addition, it is arranged differently ...

It is clear that Winchester was unhappy with the competition from Colt. Shortly after production began, Winchester met with Colt representatives and showed them some of the Myson revolvers they intended to put into production. Such competition was disadvantageous to both firms. Therefore, an agreement was reached between them that if Colt did not make rifles, then Winchester would not produce revolvers. So the production of the Colt-Burgess rifle ended just 16 months after it began, and has never been resumed. When it ceased, the total volume of Colt Burgess rifles and carbines produced was only 6403 units, and all .44-40 caliber, of which about 340 were sent to the company's London agency. True, the price of "Colt" and "Winchester" was different. Thus, the M1873 Winchester carbine of the year had a price of $ 17 and 50 cents, while the Colt Burgess carbine cost $ 24. But here a lot depended on the seller's ability to persuade the client ...


If in the "Winchester" the door cover was squeezed out by a cartridge, then in the "Burgess" it moved forward, and cartridges were inserted into the opened hole. This diagram from the patent of 1886 clearly shows how exactly this door was arranged.

Andrew Burgess then collaborated with Eli Whitney to develop a lever action rifle chambered for the .45-70 Government. It was hoped that this gun on military tests in 1878 will show its best side and will be adopted by the army. However, this did not happen, although Whitney continued to release her sports and military versions.


Here is this rifle with a bayonet. (Photo by Amoskeag Auction Company, Inc)


And this is one of Whitney's rifles ... ("Whitney-Scarf", to be precise)

In 1881, the Marlin Firearms Company introduced to the market a magazine-type carbine with a lever mechanism of the 1881 model, all its key features were patented by Andrew Burgess. This rifle was produced in various calibers from .32-40 to 45-70 Government.

Then in 1892 Burgess founded his own arms company in Buffalo, New York. His company was called the Burgess Gun Company, and produced shotguns and bolt-action rifles controlled by a unique pistol grip, albeit only until it was bought by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1899. Winchester would usually buy competing firms and then shut them down.


And then Andrew Burgess came up with this: a smooth-bore 12-gauge six-shot breakable carbine!

One of the most notable types of firearms, resulting from hundreds and hundreds of patents granted by Burgess, was a collapsible smoothbore rifle designed for police, courier services, prisons and banks. It was produced by his own company from 1892 to 1899.


The appearance of the gun according to the 1894 patent

In fact, it was a pump-action shotgun that had a movable semi-pistol grip that moved back and could just as quickly be pushed forward by the shooter. And it was connected by a thrust to the shutter! Six shots in less than three seconds - this was its rate of fire with a magazine filled with cartridges, but most users appreciated its other quality: compact storage when folded. With a special holster, this folding gun could be carried under a coat, and then quickly removed and instantly activated.


"Filling" of the receiver. Patent 1894

Well, for the first time his folding gun was put into production back in 1884. The magazine could hold six rounds, the barrel length could be 19-20 inches. The mechanism of this gun is interesting, which remained the only such system in stories... An iron sleeve was put on the neck of his butt, which just actuated the bolt. There was a lifting lever on top to free the barrel and fold it. A leather belt holster relied on each gun.


Sliding butt-neck device. Patent 1894

These guns were available in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. It was advertised as a specially designed weapon for police and courier services such as Wells Fargo couriers, US marshals, prison and bank guards.


And this is how this gun worked! (Photo from Popular Mechanics magazine)

The shotgun was also used by police and prison guards in New York City. In 1895, one of Burgess's salesmen came to the office of New York Police Commissioner Theodore Roosevelt with the Burgess hidden under his coat. He pulled it out and fired six blank shots at the ceiling. Roosevelt was impressed by this demonstration, and he immediately ordered this gun for the guards at Sing Sing Prison.


Burgess patent 1892. One of the attempts to use the recoil force to reload the gun

Although these shotguns were primarily produced as shotguns, some were also produced for rifle calibers. And it turned out that this folding gun is very convenient for law enforcement agencies, which just needed such a compact weapon. Another reason: powerful damaging characteristics. Thus, a buckshot shot at a distance of 40 yards left the criminal no chance of continuing resistance!


By the way, a lever rifle developed by Schneider on the basis of the Sharps rifle should have had an even shorter receiver. Her shutter did not move, but rose up along the grooves ...

According to writer Mark Lee Garner in "To Hell on a Fast Horse," the famous Pat Garrett (famous American Wild West law enforcement officer, bartender, cowboy, buffalo hunter and customs agent, best known for killing the famous mobster Billy Kidd) was armed with a Burgess when he was killed on February 29, 1908, during a dispute over a plot of land.


Only three engraved rifles were made and one of them (serial number 285) was donated to William F. (Buffalo Bill) Cody. On the side of the frame is Cody riding a horse, shooting a bison with a Colt Burgess rifle. Thus, the eye-catching design and lever-action reloading system, as well as the fact that one of these rifles was once owned by Buffalo Bill himself, greatly increase their appeal. This copy was sold in September 2018 for $ 109,250

Burgess is remembered by his contemporaries for his unique method of work, as he, while in St. Augustine, Florida, used to work in a floating workshop next to a beach bungalow. When stress gripped him on the shore, Burgess raised the anchor and floated with the flow, playing his favorite violin and ... periodically firing a shotgun to ward off the seagulls that annoyed him.


Colt-Burgess manufactured by Uberti, Italy


The device of the Uberti Colt Burgess rifle

The last patent was granted to Burgess in 1906, and he died of heart failure on December 19, 1908, at the age of 71.

To be continued ...
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  1. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 14 March 2021 05: 02
    +12
    I have never even heard of such people!
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Rare and interesting material.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 05: 34
      +10
      Hello honest company! Surprisingly, I also felt like a neophyte.
      Thank you!
      1. kalibr
        14 March 2021 06: 58
        +12
        Best praise for me! However, when I was preparing the material, I felt the same way ...
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 14 March 2021 08: 40
          +9
          Vyacheslav Olegovich hi Great article good Something in "History" is not enough of your work, so try ... Otherwise, citizen Frolova will transfer all historians to either mathematicians or alcoholics laughing
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 March 2021 09: 10
            +8
            Quote: Hunter 2
            Vyacheslav Olegovich hi Great article good Something in "History" is not enough of your work, so try ... Otherwise, citizen Frolova will transfer all historians to either mathematicians or alcoholics laughing

            Greetings, Alex! hi
            "After the impact of cluster munitions on the Wehrmacht satellite grouping in the area of ​​the Bug River, the Luftwaffe were forced to temporarily stop flights of AWACS Airbuses at the distance of intercepting carrier-based aircraft of the Dnieper Flotilla ..."
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 14 March 2021 09: 15
              +6
              Quote: Krasnodar

              Greetings, Alex! hi
              "After the impact of cluster munitions on the Wehrmacht satellite grouping in the area of ​​the Bug River"

              Here - Here ... her style laughing Don't you accidentally work under a pseudonym ???
              Hi Albert hi
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 March 2021 09: 26
                +9
                No, I love Damantsev more

                “The missile of the S-300PM3 complex, the air defense air defense index - 40R6, made the use of an Iowa-class submarine in the waters of the Kuban unprofitable due to the widespread use of the AFAR Zhuk-A (E) radar installed on the MiG-35 multipurpose fighters, surpassing AN in a number of parameters. / APG-63 (V) 2/3 on the F-15 C / E of the Ecuadorian Air Force. "

                Then the article
                1. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 14 March 2021 09: 28
                  +9
                  There is also the magnificent Samsonov family (their number is unknown) ... these citizens, like the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, are specialists in all matters laughing
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 14 March 2021 10: 26
                    +7
                    Oh ... "Soviet (Russian) civilization, which the Anglo-Saxons (united Europe) tried to destroy by the hands of Nazi Germany, in every possible way stimulating it with carpet bombing of Teutonic cities, carried an alternative vector of development to the peoples, based not on capitalist enslavement, but on space exploration, virgin lands and works of Paustovsky. The latter was by no means a trivial matter ... "
          2. kalibr
            14 March 2021 09: 45
            +10
            Alexei! It is physically difficult for me to write more than 1 article a day. And here either history or weapons. By the way, we are currently moderating two historical articles and two about weapons. But ... just now I contacted one company "from there" and they just gave me ... well, very interesting material. And how can I miss this? Hands itch. And the photos are excellent, not trivial copies from the Internet. There is also a novel hanging over me, and more than one. People are also waiting there and remind: let's continue.
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 14 March 2021 09: 57
              +9
              Vyacheslav Olegovich ... We Are For - One article per day good Eh ... about food more ... but - Any topic Glad!
              1. kalibr
                14 March 2021 11: 09
                +5
                Quote: Hunter 2
                about food

                I remember. But there is no time to devote to this complex topic yet. More complex, by the way, than weapons. Right now, for example, we need a diagram of the device ... on the Web - no, on the company's website - no. There is a "manual" on the fan site, but ... PDF. Downloading, translating ... printing, scanning, correcting - and the diagram is ours. And then ... where is the 15th century food fan site?
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 March 2021 15: 47
                +2
                Shrovetide ends.
            2. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 14 March 2021 16: 40
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              The Internet. There is also a novel hanging over me, and more than one. People are also waiting there and remind: let's continue

              It's happiness to feel in demand! I wish you success in all areas.
        2. Alien From
          Alien From 14 March 2021 09: 57
          +7
          Vyacheslav Olegovich! I read your articles more than once! Thank you, I join the thanks good
  2. Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 05: 23
    +9
    Good morning friends! hi
    Thanks to Vyacheslav for Burgess, the man lived an interesting life.
    I'll try to insert a roller with the folding gun out of the holster.
    Real cowboyism, brothers. laughing
    It doesn't work, they write that the file is too heavy.
    Maybe someone will succeed. (Burgess smoothbore gun Burgess police gun (USA)
    modernfirearms.net ›ru / gladkostvolnoe-oruzhie / ssha ...)

    The man has a holster with a folded gun under his jacket, on his left thigh.
    It’s a pity that it didn’t work, I tried. request
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 14 March 2021 06: 44
      +4
      Greetings, judging by the link there is just a listing of the model range with a short description. Maybe I really got to the wrong place. Earlier there was a TV channel "weapon" I saw something like that there. Unfortunately, it was closed.
    2. kalibr
      14 March 2021 06: 55
      +7
      I've seen it in action; impressive how it works. This guy is the host of Forgotenn Veapons, the Forgotten Weapon show, and he is a master of his craft.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 09: 19
      +9

      Did we mean it, Constantine? hi
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 14 March 2021 10: 00
        +7
        Exactly! Thank you, Volodya. smile
        There was such a film, "Lemonade Joe", a comedy, where the main character, riding a mustang, snatched the Winchester from the saddle cover and twisted it on his finger like a revolver, but after watching this video, I was convinced that in real life there are such craftsmen ...
        1. Richard
          Richard 14 March 2021 17: 16
          +3
          Folding smoothbore shotgun

          And there are also folding PP and pistols
          For example, one of the smallest
          Trailblazer Firearms recently announced the new LifeCard gun and called it its masterpiece. This is a one-shot gun, caliber .22LR, with a shock-and-blast mechanism of one action. Total length - 8,6 cm, thickness - 1, 200 cm, and weight - about XNUMX grams.
          When folded, the LifeCard is 5.4 cm wide and shaped like a standard credit card. B fopme kpeditnoy kapty pictolet ctpelyat ne mozhet - All coglacno zakonodatelnym tpebovaniyam to tak nazyvaemomu «AOW regions» (verily ect lyubomu ognectpelnomu opuzhiyu, ne otvechayuschemu ctandaptnym papametpam - IT and uctapevshie konctpuktsii and zamackipovannye pictolety and opuzhie, pepeobopudovannoe pod dpobovoy or vintovochny patpon , and many others) In the tilted state, you can feel the cocking lever, which you need to move in order to unlock the slow hook. There is a small V-shaped groove in the upper part of the barrel for adherence. The small storage compartment contains 4 spare chucks. When charged, the bar is lifted to the top, like the Beretta Bobcat or JetFire. Before shooting, the shutter must be manually cocked, and it can also be found at the position of the half-star.

          LifeCard sells from mid-August 2020 and costs about 400 bucks.
          Source - Trailblazer Firearms introduces folding .22 single-shot pistol
          1. Richard
            Richard 14 March 2021 17: 19
            +4
            folding gun LifeCard








    4. PCF
      PCF 15 March 2021 16: 50
      +1
      Why can't you upload a video here? The first 17 seconds explain the whole thing about such a shotgun.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXvmGtLYwKA
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 15 March 2021 16: 58
        0
        The guys have already posted everything.
        1. PCF
          PCF 15 March 2021 17: 08
          +1
          Yeah, even with the translation, I looked in the original, well, and then shoved it, but somehow unsuccessfully
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 06: 36
    +7
    There is no antimonopoly committee on them. I wonder what the consequences could have been if Colt got involved in the production of rifles, and Winchester - revolvers.
    1. kalibr
      14 March 2021 06: 56
      +8
      Quote: Korsar4
      getting "Colt" into the production of rifles,

      In the end, he did fit into it. About this in the next article!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 07: 06
        +5
        I assumed.
        I catch myself thinking that economic characteristics are more interesting than technical details.

        But there's nothing to be done.
    2. Catfish
      Catfish 14 March 2021 07: 07
      +6
      Hi Sergey hi , do not take bread from the Author. laughing


      Quote: Korsar4
      getting "Colt" into the production of rifles,

      In the end, he did fit into it. About this in the next article!
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 07: 21
        +7
        Hi Constantine!

        What in this thread can I beat off from whom?
        Here "Chukchi is a reader".
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 14 March 2021 07: 56
          +8
          Recipe for the Chukchi:
          "Analgin, despite the name, must be taken by mouth."
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 14 March 2021 07: 58
            +7
            Based on the book that Anton recommended, pills do not work on the inquisitors at all.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 14 March 2021 07: 59
              +6
              Anton is sure that the Chukchi worked as an inquisitor?
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 00
                +4
                Not. This is my way of reading.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 14 March 2021 08: 05
                  +4
                  Share your experience, I also want about inquisitors and pills.
                  And he drank immediately ... drinks
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 11
                    +5
                    To us it is only for the scent. His foolishness is enough. Initially laid down.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 14 March 2021 08: 20
                      +4
                      His foolishness is enough.


                      That's right!
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 31
                        +6
                        Do you think these silhouettes use hare shot caliber?
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 14 March 2021 09: 00
                        +6
                        And what difference does it make to them after a liter of drunk, that the wolf, that the hare - the system is the same, when in the eyes of the triple, shoot at the second from the left, or, back, at the second from the right, one hell is all by and the ending is unambiguous. wassat drinks

                      3. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 14 March 2021 21: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: Sea Cat
                        ........ after a liter of drunk
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 14 March 2021 22: 01
                        0
                        So the dog is also under the fly - he catches the devils! laughing drinks
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 01
        +6
        Good morning! I hope the novel is "in"? ...
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 14 March 2021 08: 07
          +6
          Hi, hello! smile What's new in St. Petersburg, is Kronstadt not going to rebel?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 18
            +5
            Good morning, Uncle Kostya!
            It's spring in St. Petersburg!
            "Youth threw us
            On the Kronstadt ice "(C)
            (Song of Reckless Fishermen)
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 14 March 2021 08: 26
              +6
              In this context, this song takes on a new sound! laughing

              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 15: 30
                +2
                Winter fishing talk! laughing
                So wrong !!

                But that's right !!!
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 14 March 2021 15: 43
                  +3
                  Yes, we are here not so much about fishing as about the annual clients of the Ministry of Emergencies. laughing
                2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 20: 48
                  +2
                  Uncle Kostya, for a normal cat the Ministry of Emergencies is necessary in one case!
                3. Catfish
                  Catfish 14 March 2021 20: 51
                  +2
                  Poor cat and brutal birds, this is no longer the Ministry of Emergency Situations, special forces are needed here! angry
                4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 21: 03
                  +2
                  Spetsnaz at the bottom! Did not notice!!!
                5. Catfish
                  Catfish 14 March 2021 21: 34
                  +2
                  Oh yeah! There is no more terrible beast in the world! laughing

  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 14
    +5
    Good morning!

    It is rather weak with logic. But the question of choice is well posed.
    And the Inquisition is shown, maybe even a little more vividly than in the "Patrols".
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 42
      +7
      It is rather weak with logic. But the question of choice is well posed.
      Tolstoyevsky's shadow is the birth trauma of Russian science fiction.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 44
        +5
        It's good that there are "The Brothers Karamazov" and "Anna Karenina".
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 51
          +5
          I don’t deny, however, mind you, I only mentioned science fiction.
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 53
            +4
            This is the same question: what do I know about Russian science fiction and where does it hide from time to time?

            Greene is more than fiction?
          2. Konnick
            Konnick 14 March 2021 09: 00
            +7
            Greene is more than fiction?


            Sorry, I'm getting into the discussion. Green is more of a fantasy. And according to the Ukrainian school curriculum, Green, who was born in Vyatka, turns out to be a Ukrainian, not a Russian, writer. repeat
            But Gogol, with his fantasy, is foreign according to the same Krajina textbooks, i.e. Russian writer ... well, finally.
          3. Korsar4
            Korsar4 14 March 2021 09: 06
            +6
            Vernadsky is also a Ukrainian scientist. Which is confirmed by a bill.

            The forum is open.
            We are glad to have good people and bright thoughts.
          4. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 14 March 2021 09: 20
            +7
            Uh-huh. And the Strugatskys are Jewish science fiction writers.
          5. Catfish
            Catfish 14 March 2021 10: 04
            +6
            And why should the noble donors not be persons of Jewish nationality. I see no problem.
          6. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 14 March 2021 10: 10
            +6
            I can't see either. However, not everyone shares this view. In general, the division of culture along ethnic lines freezes me completely. Literature - especially.
          7. Catfish
            Catfish 14 March 2021 10: 25
            +4
            This topic generally drives me into a stupor. Here my colleague Konnick (Nikolai) said very well about this, I mean that Gogol in Ukraine has finally become a Russian writer. Oh-ho-ho ...
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 00
        +4
        Fortunately, they wrote in Russian. Rosenthal will confirm.
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 14 March 2021 11: 06
        +3
        Nabokov wrote in two languages.
      4. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 08
        +4
        And it's hard for me to read it in Russian. Maybe "Luzhin's Defense" hooked a little more.

        And Yul Brynner and Alyosha Dmitrievich sing in Russian. They sing well. And it is not necessary to know the language.
      5. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 14 March 2021 11: 13
        +4
        And it's hard for me to read it in Russian.
        Me too. Read "Invitation to Execution" and "Lolita".
      6. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 38
        +1
        By the way, I never read Lolita. The novel "Horror" is still remembered.
      7. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 14 March 2021 15: 18
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        And it's hard for me to read it in Russian.
        Me too. Read "Invitation to Execution" and "Lolita".

        And I am only the adventures of Humbert Humbert
      8. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 14 March 2021 17: 15
        +2
        In English?
      9. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 14 March 2021 17: 37
        +1
        No, Nabokov's translation from English into Russian
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 March 2021 09: 14
    +6
    Oh, this controversy is not one decade!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 10: 08
    +6
    ... about Russian science fiction and where does it hide from time to time?


    Well, here everything is simply decided: it is only necessary to revive the Office in its former quality and books will appear immediately, which will be interesting and useful to read.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 01
    +4
    And a new Schwartz will appear.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 12: 09
    +4
    For sure. By the way, if we both mean one Schwartz, then he, in the rank of ensign, participated in the "Ice campaign" and the storming of Yekaterinodar under the command of General Pokrovsky. soldier
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 13: 30
    +4
    Yes. I was told about this recently.
    I listen to songs from "Shadow" with Raikin. Although Dahl is probably no worse.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 14: 32
    +4
    Goethe so, Hauptsturmführer. hi

  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 15: 45
    +3
    These dreams are about good princesses and faithful maids.
    However, the cannibals from the city pawnshop are quite stable.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 17: 06
    +3
    On the question of cannibals and in general ...

  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 17: 51
    +2
    “It's not bad to get to lunch,
    But by no means in the form of a dish ”(c).
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 17: 53
    +2
    It depends on which dish. wink

    "- What is your political credo?
    - Always !!! "(c)

  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 19: 23
    +2
    And those in the background dealt with the competitors?
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 19: 36
    +3
    It seems to me that they did not understand that the peasants brought the writing, and they run to kick their ass out of banal jealousy, or maybe they just want to eat. In the background, the hearth is already quite warmed up. yes
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 March 2021 20: 36
    +3
    [quote = Sea Cat] It seems to me that they did not understand that the men brought my writing, and they run to kick their ass out of banal jealousy, or maybe they just want to eat. In the background, the hearth is already quite warmed up. yes[/ Quote
    Kostya, good evening. Perhaps these two just stole the grub from them? Those who are chasing, conspiring: now we will eat these "radishes", and the blonde will be a "Zina" doll for the best of us.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 20: 49
    +2
    Hello, Glory. smile So there are some women running, why should they have a doll, or do you think that there is sheer promiscuity? Although ... who's stopping them? laughing
  • vladcub
    vladcub 15 March 2021 17: 41
    +1
    And figs knows what they were? You and I are normal men and far from all that dregs
  • Catfish
    Catfish 15 March 2021 17: 55
    0
    This is true, but interesting ...
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 March 2021 17: 24
    +4
    What, nafig, Gute?!?!?! (Scandinavian female name)
    What, nafig, "so"?!?!?! ("Yes", in Ukrainian)
    Uncle Kostya, you are speaking like a Cossack of Hetman Mazepa who had a Swedish woman!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 17: 32
    +4
    You will, of course, excuse me, "so" I wrote "such", but where Guta got out from is not a question for me. The site has not yet made such jokes, I have already been told several times, for example, that I have no right to leave my comments here. So the missing letters are the little things in life. request
    I didn’t have a Swede, it’s Mashin’s brother, married to a Swiss woman, and I didn’t get any further than Lithuania. Here is Lyme, for example, a very beautiful name, have you met? smile
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 17: 53
    +3
    And for you, Konstantin, out of nowhere Gutas come out, Yvette, Lisette, and further down the list.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 17: 55
    +4
    They all crawl out of the same place, in fact, like us, sinners. laughing
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 March 2021 18: 33
    +3
    1.I have already been told several times, for example, that I have no right to leave my comments here
    This is the standard protocol of the resource, on the user's attempt to correct his own comment 5 minutes after the publication thereof.
    2. Met. I like Marina more.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 18: 46
    +3
    And to me - brunettes. smile Although blondes are also sometimes nothing. drinks
    "All girls are good - choose the taste" wink

  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 March 2021 12: 23
    +3
    Oh, this bloody gebny from the Fifth Directorate ...
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 12: 34
    +6
    Yeah, it's some kind of Gestap. am
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 04
    +5
    However, I note that you still need to remove the packaging, otherwise you will have heartburn.
    (Secrets of traditional Chukchi medicine)
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 16
      +7
      Since such a topic.
      The strip on the tablet is said to be for a slotted screwdriver.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 32
        +6
        Have you ever tried to split a pill in half? ... Just about. So this slot is a chisel stop.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 41
          +5
          You did not understand. It is not necessary to divide it.
          And screw it up, as Konstantin recommends.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 45
            +6
            Then why the slot on the furacilin tablets? According to uncle's therapy, they need to be rubbed into the tonsils.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 14 March 2021 08: 51
              +5
              Maybe for educational purposes?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 14 March 2021 09: 02
                +6
                According to the method of grandmother Carlson?
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 March 2021 09: 07
                +3
                Something like this.
          2. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 14 March 2021 08: 54
            +8
            Stunned belay here you have found a topic for discussion laughing there are also tablets divided by a cross, and gelatin capsules (this is aerobatics - to divide the contents of the capsule into two parts).
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 14 March 2021 09: 00
              +5
              What is easier, Alexey!
              We pump the capsule with saline through a syringe, shake the resulting solution, pump it out with a syringe and pump half into an empty capsule.
            2. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 14 March 2021 09: 10
              +6
              But belay Somehow I almost broke my head ... dividing the contents of the capsule in half for the Cub!
            3. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 14 March 2021 10: 49
              +4
              Not the most difficult task. Here's a dog to feed half a capsule of an antibiotic - that's a quest!
            4. Richard
              Richard 15 March 2021 14: 53
              +1
              You dilute the capsule and inject it into the throat with an ordinary syringe without a needle. Twice a day I do my
            5. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 15 March 2021 19: 10
              +1
              I ended up with a similar method too.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 11: 44
        +6
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        pump out with a syringe and pump half into an empty capsule.

        And they say escho about "multi-gram" kitchen electronic scales ... And use a spoon for measuring "microdoses"?
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 14 March 2021 11: 49
        +5
        "Elements of a Sweet Life" invented by the enemies of the communists! am
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 March 2021 09: 09
    +5
    Just messed up pages of encyclopedias: medical, hunting, and so on.

    And don't say you weren't warned.

    You can reasonably say about the caliber of shot and grapeshot.
    And it’s still morning.

    True Evdokia. Spring begins in the old style.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 15: 36
    +4
    Quote: Hunter 2
    Stunned belay here you have found a topic for discussion laughing there are also tablets divided by a cross, and gelatin capsules (this is aerobatics - to divide the contents of the capsule into two parts).

    What is the problem? Gnaw off the yellow half of the capsule, pay and drink water. Glue the rest of it with chewing gum until better times. laughing
    And I didn’t come up with it!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 10: 19
    +4
    Pralna, blame everything on me, we will still sit together. laughing
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 06
      +4
      This is easier to explain.

      Fortunately, you don't have to puzzle over the game theory prisoner's dilemma.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 14 March 2021 12: 16
        +5
        In the virtual world, in my opinion, the exchange of real "bags" is impossible. smile We are all phantoms here.
      2. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 March 2021 13: 33
        +4
        Canterville ghosts for Lyudmila Yakovlevna?
      3. Catfish
        Catfish 14 March 2021 14: 24
        +4
        More like the ghosts of Morrisville Castle. laughing

      4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 15: 38
        +2
        Kisa in the middle is outraged by the low-quality massage in the back! wink
      5. Catfish
        Catfish 14 March 2021 15: 42
        +3
        But the injured party received it in full. laughing
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 15 March 2021 17: 59
      +1
      Recently revisited: "The Mystery of Backup Island" seems to be the same time these films were released?
    3. Catfish
      Catfish 15 March 2021 18: 06
      0
      Yes, at about the same time and both films are very good.
      On History "Miracle on the Marne" - look.
    4. vladcub
      vladcub 15 March 2021 18: 19
      +1
      I'll come right now
    5. vladcub
      vladcub 15 March 2021 18: 19
      +1
      I'll come right now
  • Konnick
    Konnick 14 March 2021 09: 28
    +5
    Have you ever tried to split a pill in half? ... Just about. So this slot is a chisel stop
    .
    There is a joke on this topic:
    We have built a new aircraft, the latest design.
    Began to test, takes off, picks up the design speed ... and bang ... the wings fall off the fuselage.
    A new aircraft was made, with strengthening of the junction of the wings with the fuselage.
    Test it again and ... bang ... the wings fly away separately. Enhanced ... the same result. The designers are sitting at the airfield, their heads bowed, they think that some guy passes by, stops and says:
    - And you drill holes along the fuselage, otherwise you are exhausted.
    They drove the peasant away, but something must be done. One and says:
    - Let's try ...
    We tried it ... drilled it, the plane is flying.
    They rushed to look for that guy, found, asked:
    - How did you know that?
    -Are you a scientist?
    The man replies:
    - No, I'm observant. Like you can't tear toilet paper, it doesn't break through perforation anyway ...
    1. PilotS37
      PilotS37 16 March 2021 14: 49
      +1
      Quote: Konnick
      Like you can't tear toilet paper, it doesn't break through perforation anyway ...

      It's funny, but I know of two cases when this "technology" was applied in practice ...
      1. Konnick
        Konnick 16 March 2021 14: 56
        0
        It breaks not where it is thin, but where it is tough. In every anecdote, as in a joke, there is only a fraction of the funny. With perforation, there is less chance of cracking, and if the edge of the holes is well machined and rounded and cracking, as the stress concentration decreases.
        1. PilotS37
          PilotS37 16 March 2021 15: 14
          0
          Quote: Konnick
          It breaks not where it is thin, but where it is tough. In every anecdote, as in a joke, there is only a fraction of the funny. With perforation, there is less chance of cracking, and if the edge of the holes is well machined and rounded and cracking, as the stress concentration decreases.

          No.
          In one case (the MiG-23 stabilizer), gases trapped under pressure in the closed space of the caisson were removed through the perforation (there was a honeycomb filler, which was glued to the sheathing panels with special glue). This overpressure resulted in premature failure of the assembly.
          In the second case (Tu-2 wing skin), there was no perforation, but a thin skin was used there so that it could bend when the pressure above the wing changed. An attempt to make the skin thicker led to its premature failure.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 14 March 2021 08: 16
    +8
    ... heartburn will be.

    "For us Tatars, everything is one, that a machine gun, that vodka - if only it would knock down!" laughing
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 27
      +6
      "- And what is" back "in Tatar?
      - There is no such word in the Tatar language. Only "forward" - "alga"!
      - How do you move back ???
      - We turn around, and - alga !!! "(C)
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 14 March 2021 09: 01
        +2
        Happy people, never, no doubt - just forward! laughing
  • kalibr
    14 March 2021 07: 20
    +7
    He is! In the United States, there are very strict antitrust laws, and cartel agreements are completely prohibited.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 14 March 2021 07: 22
      +5
      Surely there were loopholes on how to get around it.
      1. kalibr
        14 March 2021 07: 52
        +7
        There are always loopholes. For example, in England offshore business is prohibited for citizens, but a third of the British keep their money in offshore banks and a bunch of British territories are offshore zones. And in the United States, the unfortunate oppressed Indians live on reservations ... which are also offshore zones and some tribes are already so rich that ... it's just incredible. So advice to "our Americans": run your business on the lands of the Indians and you do not have to give 50% of your income to the treasury!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 14 March 2021 07: 59
          +6
          Why is our Kaliningrad region worse than their reservations?
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 March 2021 09: 15
            +4
            Quote: Korsar4
            Why is our Kaliningrad region worse than their reservations?

            It's scary there. There Kant is buried
            1. kalibr
              14 March 2021 11: 00
              +6
              Quote: Krasnodar
              It's scary there. There Kant is buried

              It is not true, in Könixberg it is very interesting, and the island where the cathedral stands and the Museum of the Sea in front of it are very interesting places. And if you leave for Zelenogradsk, then you generally find yourself in another world. There is one promenade worth something, and the Spit ... you want to walk and walk along it ... And the Dunes ... the sea is only cold. I don't like that ... By the way, the father of the Reformation, Luther, is buried there. Cathedral so humble on the way to Pillau ...
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 03
                +4
                And the sea is also good: in Svetlogorsk, and in Zelenogradsk, and in Baltiysk.
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 March 2021 11: 10
                +4
                Wow. Add another destination to the places to visit hi
            2. Korsar4
              Korsar4 14 March 2021 11: 02
              +3
              Classic landmark.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 07
          +6
          And in the United States, the unfortunate oppressed Indians live on reservations ... which are also offshore zones and some tribes are already so rich that ... it's just incredible.
          Casino and excise-free tobacco.
          Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 14 March 2021 09: 17
            +3
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And in the United States, the unfortunate oppressed Indians live on reservations ... which are also offshore zones and some tribes are already so rich that ... it's just incredible.
            Casino and excise-free tobacco.
            Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

            Hello Anton!
            And Hardrock Cafe
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 14 March 2021 09: 23
              +3
              Albert! hi
              Where is it from?
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 14 March 2021 09: 31
                +5
                Hard Rock Cafe is a chain of cafes around the world. In St. Petersburg is located at
                Sadovaya st., 62. Franchise is sold by the Cherokee tribe, if I'm not mistaken
                Stylistics - Electric guitars as decor, food - steaks and hamburgers
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 14 March 2021 09: 37
                  +5
                  It became interesting how Cherokee sided with hard rock ... recourse
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 14 March 2021 10: 12
                    +6
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    It became interesting how Cherokee sided with hard rock ... recourse

                    Neither did they organize it that way. We bought a successful network from gambling income
                2. kalibr
                  14 March 2021 09: 52
                  +6
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Franchise is sold by the Cherokee tribe

                  Exactly! The richest tribe in the USA!
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 14 March 2021 10: 17
                    +4
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Franchise is sold by the Cherokee tribe

                    Exactly! The richest tribe in the USA!

                    Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich! hi
                    So they also made hotels and a Casino called Hard Rock Cafe, designed in the same style))
                    And since rockers are people, mostly not poor and educated, then the initiative is sensible
                    1. kalibr
                      14 March 2021 10: 56
                      +4
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      then the initiative is sensible

                      Poor robbed Indians!
                    2. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 March 2021 11: 09
                      +3
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      then the initiative is sensible

                      Poor robbed Indians!

                      They are Chukchi and Evenki. Came to America from the present North of Russia)).
                    3. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 15: 43
                      +3
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Krasnodar
                      then the initiative is sensible

                      Poor robbed Indians!

                      They are Chukchi and Evenki. Came to America from the present North of Russia)).

                      As far as I know, their closest relatives live on the middle reaches of the Yenisei.
                    4. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 March 2021 17: 01
                      +3
                      Whose? Indians or Chukchi?
                    5. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 18: 26
                      +2
                      Indians - Cherokee, Apache, Comanche!
                      Chukchi on their own. They are considered to have been squeezed into the Chukchi Peninsula during the time of Genghis Khan. The closest relatives of mushers.
                      But the northernmost scumbags are the Yugokars.
                    6. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 March 2021 20: 07
                      +2
                      Thank you, did not know hi
                    7. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 20: 26
                      +4
                      For a smile! The Yugokars have been terrorizing the Chukchi and mushers for two centuries. When the Russians came, the first ones made good friends with us and acted as allies. But they went too far and in the 17th century ran into an answer from the Chukchi, who for the sake of this made up with the mushers. We got involved for our allies by pulling up the Yakuts and other yasaks. Butted for almost two centuries, with varying degrees of success.
                    8. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 14 March 2021 21: 27
                      +1
                      Imperialism and the National Question laughing
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 14 March 2021 08: 09
    +6
    run your business on the lands of the Indians and you do not have to give 50% of your income to the treasury!
    I think "everything is stolen before us" (C)
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 07: 11
    +3
    6 shots in 3 seconds? belay
    Can a simple arrow really do this?
    1. kalibr
      14 March 2021 07: 18
      +6
      I don't know, but judging by the design, probably yes. And so ... it was not I who came up with this and I myself did not hold this gun in my hands! I kept this one, with a horse's tail on his head ... all the time I forget his name. Host from the Rockyennd Arsenal Auction Company.
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 14 March 2021 08: 44
      +2
      And 5 shots from a revolver, in less than a second, without automatic cocking, when 5 shots merge into one. Moreover, 5 targets were hit at 20 meters.
      1. Lech from Android.
        Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 09: 26
        +1
        Fantasy...
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 09: 38
    +5
    The name Colt Burgess sounded familiar to me! I began to figure out where I "heard" him ... looked into my "archive" ... for sure! I have a little bit about Burgess! (Apparently, I somehow downloaded a lot of material ... I didn't get to know everything at once and left it "for later" ... and then I forgot!) Since the VO page already has a lot of information about Burgess's weapons, I want to briefly mention that Burgess "dabbled" not only with Rifles, but also with pistols! Moreover, very original!



    These are all variants of one model ... And the originality lay in the fact that to reload the pistol it was necessary to pull the barrel by hand! You should have probably had leather gloves, gentlemen!
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 09: 52
      +3
      It looks original, more like the product of the locksmith Ivanov, as if they were processing it with a file in the garage.
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 14 March 2021 10: 46
        +4
        For a self-propelled gun with a wooden handle, an eighth-grader Petya Poluyezdov can now unwind for five years, in view of his young age. And Poluyezdov's dad, a locksmith of housing and communal services, can get 10 years for a higher sample. For nefik laughing
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 10: 48
        +5
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        it looks like the product of the locksmith Ivanov, as if they were processing it with a file in the garage.

        What can you say about the very primary "prototype" of the Ghana?
        1. Lech from Android.
          Lech from Android. 14 March 2021 18: 07
          +1
          belay what wassat I won't say anything, only emotions from this thing, you can't figure it out right away, then ... it's more like a bolt.
    2. kalibr
      14 March 2021 09: 54
      +6
      Pulling the barrel was at one time a fashionable automatic. Thank you for information.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 10: 38
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Pulling the barrel was once a fashionable automatic

        Thank you for your rating! "Pulling the barrel" is, of course, not the main thing that I wanted to say ... I forgot the main thing again! fool ... this pistol belongs to a weapon without a bolt carrier!
        1. kalibr
          14 March 2021 10: 53
          +5
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          that pistol belongs to a weapon without a bolt carrier

          So this is the main design feature of pistols that "pull by the barrel". They do not need it, this frame. The barrel goes inside the body frame itself and sits "backwards" onto the cartridge. And his trigger is self-cocking, like that of the Nagant, and is not connected with automation at all!
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 11: 08
            +3
            Quote: kalibr
            So this is the main design feature of pistols that "pull by the barrel"

            I meant that I should first of all mention the design feature of the weapon; And only then about the manipulations that must be done with the weapon!
    3. Free wind
      Free wind 14 March 2021 10: 37
      +3
      The Japanese did this too, there was an article on VO, it was a long time ago. I assumed then that the pliers had to be carried with me. But all this was the beginning of the path of self-loading weapons. They were looking for paths, paths where no one knew where all this would lead.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 10: 46
        +4
        Quote: Free Wind
        The Japanese did it too,

        The Japanese did it in 1908 ... after Burgess!
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 11: 13
          +4
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          The Japanese did it in 1908 ... after Burgess!


          Many thanks to the MAX HOUPMAN TV channel for the pictures!
        2. Undecim
          Undecim 14 March 2021 21: 45
          +4
          The Japanese did it in 1908 ... after Burgess!
          And Mannlicher in 1894, before Borjess.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 15 March 2021 00: 00
            +2
            Yes ... that's right ... it was such a thing! The principle of automation is the same ... the difference is in nuances ... there was no need to "pull" the barrel! But there is an assumption that Burgess had the idea of ​​his pistol somewhere in 1890! True, the idea was "stuck" at the beginning; Burgess was more into the Longshot! And only when he suffered a fiasco with this type of weapon; he took up the "short shot" ...
  • kalibr
    14 March 2021 10: 57
    +4
    Quote: Krasnodar
    bought a successful network

    And the mind was enough, and the money ...
    1. agond
      agond 14 March 2021 14: 31
      +3
      Burgess's very foldable collapsible shotgun. makes a pleasant impression, for hunting it is the most, it always bothered me to collect our gun from three parts standing in the snow knee-deep in the dark.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 14 March 2021 14: 43
    +6
    With 894 patents on his hands, Andrew Burgess (1837-1908) is one of the most prolific firearms inventors the world has ever known (second only to John Browning in the number of firearm patents granted to Americans) and a man of all kinds of talents. except for the design of firearms.
    It is strange that such fantastic numbers of "creative productivity" have been taken for many years by the audience on faith.
    Meanwhile, a simple calculation shows that from 1883, when Burgess filed the first patent in the field of firearms, until 1908, when he died, 25 years had elapsed. Divide 894 by 25 and get 36 patents per year, or three patents per month. That is, for a quarter of a century, a person had to "issue 3 patents on the mountain" monthly.
    The conclusion suggests itself that such a concept as "fake" was not born today. The same is true for Browning. It is no coincidence that the most devoted fans of these designers found only 91 patents in the name of Andrew Burgess, and about 125 in the name of John Browning.
    Here you can see an interesting topic for an article, only you will have to strain yourself with the material.
    1. kalibr
      14 March 2021 15: 23
      +3
      Quote: Undecim
      Here you can see an interesting topic for an article, only you will have to strain yourself with the material.

      Yeah!
    2. kalibr
      14 March 2021 15: 33
      +5
      Quote: Undecim
      monthly "issue on the mountain" 3 patents.

      Actually, you can. I here somehow decided to calculate how many copyright certificates I could get for industrial designs of various toys in Soviet times, if I had been smarter then. And I found out that I could submit 4 applications a month, that is, every week. Of course, some part would be rejected. But in the end, this is quite possible. And it was even easier for him. Changed the shape of the X lever, which interacts differently with the Y lever or the placement of the cartridges in the magazine - and you're done. That is, if you do this, then it is quite possible to put the case on stream.
      1. agond
        agond 14 March 2021 16: 11
        +1
        Quote: Undecim
        894 patents, Andrew Burgess (1837-1908)

        Quote: kalibr

        Actually, you can. I here somehow decided to calculate how many copyright certificates I could get for industrial designs of various toys in Soviet times, if I had been smarter then.
        I must admit that Andrew Burgess was a talented inventor, and you, Vyacheslav, do not regret the unreceived patents, the patent system is an entrepreneur's invention, but only to restrict the access of others to the pile feeder, patents only slow down progress, often when you look at the description and the invention formula you notice the desire of the authors to hide something , shut up, even if their idea of ​​a damn egg is not worth it ... I could also share my thoughts, but I just don't know how to insert diagrams in this forum
        1. kalibr
          14 March 2021 18: 15
          +3
          Quote: agond
          and you, Vyacheslav, do not regret the unreceived patents

          I can't help but regret! For a certificate for an industrial design in the USSR, they paid 80 rubles. I patented my samples for a couple with an engineer from Moscow and received 40 rubles each. But he managed to do only 4. And be smart? Every month for 4 testimonies, even for a couple with him it is 160 rubles. The money is good in the USSR. In a year, my partner and I would have a book and fame throughout the country for the most ... inventive toy players in the country. Further more ... in 2-3 years they would point fingers at us, film programs on TV and write newspapers. And the books would come out one after another. And factories to take ... But I was then young and stupid and expected that these 4 of my developments would be "noticed". And when I realized that everyone cares. It was late...
        2. kalibr
          14 March 2021 18: 30
          +3
          Quote: agond
          patents only hinder progress

          That's it. And so that they do not slow down their owners have to pay!
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 14 March 2021 17: 52
        +4
        That is, if you do this, then it is quite possible to put the case on stream.
        And what is the point in this "flow"? Process for process sake? Burgess was clearly not a graphomaniac, and neither was Browning.
        1. kalibr
          14 March 2021 18: 27
          +3
          The meaning is very big. You can make great money on this, which I described in the novel "Three from Ensk" part 2. Let's say you patent 20 glass compositions. Someone starts producing whiskey ... And you to him ... and I have a patent for this glass. Are you suing or are you paying me a penny from the bottle? Or a patent for a bubble former in a bath. And you have a jacuzzi ... And what kind of bubbles you have ... We are suing or you pay ... You can create a BRAKE society and make money only on ... the brake of developments in which patent protected parts are found. Cut off oxygen to producers and milk them like cider goats! That's why you need it! And ... you can even trade in patents that shut off oxygen. Money can be made on anything. But ... you need intelligence and experience. Here's another example from my stupid past. I wrote an article about looped carpets from my village. He published it in a local newspaper, Soviet Russia, Penza Pravda, Steppe open spaces ... somewhere he considered himself smart. But it was necessary ... to find out the addresses of ALL regional newspapers in ALL REGIONS of the USSR, hire a typist to print the ORIGINALS, change ONLY HEADLINES for them and ... send them to all the newspapers of the country. There was a shortage of such information. And there was no Internet ... to check. And at 4,50 per material ... typist 1 p. so that you don't go crazy and HUNDREDS of articles at a time would be provided. Only in the Penza region there are 27 districts, 27 newspapers ... And then there was Sakhalin, Udmurtia, and the Kyzyl-Tash district of Kyrgyzstan ... You could earn money for a car in one month! But ... I thought that it was "not good" so ... Stuffed, stuffed was a fool!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 14 March 2021 18: 47
            +4
            You can make great money on this
            This is called patent trolling, and it is a popular business today. An office like Acacia Research, one of the best known patent trolls, has a market capitalization of over $ 1 billion.
            But we're not talking about patent trolls, but about the gunsmiths of the century before last.
          2. Undecim
            Undecim 14 March 2021 18: 52
            +3
            But it was necessary ... to find out the addresses of ALL regional newspapers of ALL REGIONS of the USSR
            And there was no Internet ...
            At that time, an extremely difficult task. Unless you had connections in the Propaganda and Agitation Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU.
            1. kalibr
              14 March 2021 20: 58
              +3
              Quote: Undecim
              you had connections

              The Union of Journalists had lists of all Soviet print media and addresses. It was very easy to find out.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 14 March 2021 21: 07
                +3
                I think that such an idea could come not only to you, the rascal has always been among the writing fraternity enough. Obviously, there were some formal obstacles for such a zeher. And there is no doubt that the OBKHSS would have learned about such a Volta of yours.
                1. kalibr
                  14 March 2021 21: 18
                  +3
                  Quote: Undecim
                  Obviously, there were some formal obstacles for such a zeher.

                  I don't know, it was possible to try something ... Formally, there is nothing illegal in this. Editions are different! All over the country. The information is interesting and meaningful. With the morality of the "builder of communism" really somehow ... But after all, nobody canceled the money? By the way, after some transmission, the author of some seeds received by mail almost two million letters with rubles invested in them. And he sent his seeds ... I don't know about the fate of money ...
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 14 March 2021 21: 23
                    +3
                    money has not been canceled
                    Of course not canceled. But having a lot of them was considered immoral for a Soviet person. Therefore, there was a Department for Combating theft of Socialist Property, which carefully monitored the process of maintaining high morality in the field of commodity-money relations. And conscientious citizens helped him in this, and completely free of charge.
                    1. kalibr
                      15 March 2021 06: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Undecim
                      to combat the theft of socialist property

                      But in this case, there was no embezzlement, and income tax was paid on each fee, so it would be a "clean" business from the point of view of the law.
          3. vladcub
            vladcub 14 March 2021 19: 24
            +3
            "The stuffed was a fool" the fact of the matter is that in hindsight we are all smart. For example, I recently flew 200. And now I'm ready to bite my ass, but the train has left!
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 14 March 2021 20: 12
              +2
              It would be more accurate to say: he robbed himself
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 19: 46
          +3
          Quote: Undecim
          if you do this, then it is quite possible to put the case on stream.
          And what is the point in this "flow"? Process for process sake

          If you wish, you can find the meaning! I remember ... when I was a leading engineer at the communications center of a reputable Soviet state institution; then every year they sent my department a plan for rationalization proposals ... And who should submit these proposals, if 2/3 (or maybe 4/5) of the "personnel" of the department is female !? I had to take the rap! But ... "there is a silver lining", "not only cons, but also pros ..."! For "ratsuha" I, as an innovator, received remuneration ... and an award for the department, as a leading engineer!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 14 March 2021 19: 56
            +6
            Did Burgess and Browning also have a rationalization plan? The question is not about writing thirty rationalization proposals a month. I wrote in forty, it was 98% complete bullshit for the sake of the very "plan". The patent and the Soviet ratsukha are two huge differences.
            The question is about the patents of two famous weapon designers.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 14 March 2021 20: 32
              +2
              As the saying goes, "O times, about morals!" ... (what times, such are the morals!)
            2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 20: 35
              +4
              Quote: Undecim
              The patent and the Soviet ratsukha are two huge differences.


              Laziness is the engine of progress. Without a computer education, at one time he gave birth to four programs. Two are still in use. They even gave thanks for one.
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 14 March 2021 20: 42
                +2
                Without a computer education
                What do you mean by "computer education"?
                Or did you even write programs without knowing any of the programming languages?
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 21: 01
                  +3
                  Viktor Nikolaevich, in two cases in Pascal, in two others using Exel as a basis.
                  In both cases, self-taught and lazy! Normal curators at the institute printed summary statements on an electric Yantran typewriter. Computer 286 was used to play the F-16 simulator. I poked this printed "machine gun" with a gnarled finger. The next day I brought my home Pentium to work. Two months later, I gave birth to an electronic magazine. Which worked as a shikos-nakos. Another month was debugging. Then I "smoked bamboo" for a year doing work for 6 people in the educational department and having time to play on the computer! This ruined me, the rest began to "slowly" from idleness to ferment! Therefore, they removed me from them so that they would work as before!
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 14 March 2021 21: 13
                    +2
                    And you say there is no computer education. Once you own Pascal - at least the first year of the university.
          2. kalibr
            14 March 2021 21: 13
            +4
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            received awards ... and an award for the department as a leading engineer!

            The words are not of a boy, but of a husband. But I didn't have a technical education, I didn't ...
    3. vladcub
      vladcub 14 March 2021 19: 19
      +3
      We'll have to admit "here there is a double-edged sword: 1) curious material and almost unknown, and this is a big plus.
      2) preparation of the article will take more time, which means there will be less other articles. So it is not known which is better
  • vladcub
    vladcub 14 March 2021 19: 09
    +3
    Comrades, last time I made a bet with myself and lost.
    I thought that VO would continue about: "Russian Winchester" WWII. During the Second World War in America, they produced carbines for the Russian for the Red Army. And as if these carbines were produced by Winchester.
    As a child, I heard from a front-line soldier. Something like this: the American carbine was shorter and lighter than the Soviet one. He has an interesting shutter device.
    I don't remember any details: fifty years have already passed
    1. kalibr
      14 March 2021 21: 03
      +2
      Quote: vladcub
      I thought that VO would continue about: "Russian Winchester" WWII

      There was already my article about him here on VO, and I even held it in my hands. Is on the profile among the published articles. But I don't remember the name ...
  • John22
    John22 14 March 2021 19: 41
    +2
    Registration of the Copyright Certificate was a very tricky business. Patent search, search for a prototype, filing an application - all this time and money. And more correspondence with the Patent Institute ...
    1. kalibr
      14 March 2021 21: 04
      +2
      Quote: John22
      The design of the Copyright Certificate was a very tricky business.

      But not an INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CERTIFICATE, but this is a big difference. It was possible to get it at ... a kiosk for selling newspapers and even for a button ... We've got 4 toys for it ... A floating tank, a rover, and some two more I don't even remember ... A - I remembered - a visual aid in physics to demonstrate the Brownian motion of molecules with the help of an overhead scope! First, a prize in the competition of visual aids for technical schools and high schools, and then a certificate.
  • John22
    John22 14 March 2021 20: 02
    +3
    Thanks for the information about the gunsmith Burgess and his weapon. His surname in our country somehow did not sink into our memory and in literature, too, did not call eyes. Even Markevich only mentions one Borjess rifle. And we have developed a stereotype of recognition - if a rifle or a gun with a cocking lever, then this is a Winchester company. Have cleared up a little. Well, yes, this is the result of the lack of weapons literature in the USSR and the CIS.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 20: 41
      +1
      Quote: John22
      Well, yes, this is the result of the lack of weapons literature in the USSR and the CIS.


      Don't be so categorical. Henry learned about Savage with a brace in 1990 from Youth Tech. I read about Marlin in 1995, if I am not mistaken, in the Soldier of Fortune magazine.
      I donated the book of Zhuk to the head of the course in 1996, I began to buy something simpler in the library since 97. Everything depends on money.
      1. John22
        John22 14 March 2021 20: 59
        +2
        In 1991, the USSR collapsed, but in the 90s everything was already different. The Beetle does not mention Burgess's weapons. I have been interested in weapons literature since 1965. Except for books: Fedorova - In search of a gun, Soviet gunsmiths, Gritsa - Sharpshooters, something about Kalashnikov - nothing else. Even in the military encyclopedia minuscule and even then not about everything.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 21: 07
          +2
          If you mean exactly Barges, then I only read about his folding gun. The rest is a revelation for me today.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 14 March 2021 21: 18
        +3
        About the USSR - the truth is. Weapon literature was absent as a class.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 March 2021 21: 59
          +2
          Here Viktor Nikolaevich, perhaps my judgments are not objective. Finished high school at 95.
          But the magazines Foreign Military Review, TM and UT were subscribed to in the family from 87-88 years.
          They were always about firearms.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 14 March 2021 22: 24
            +5
            Foreign military review from my father still subscribed, then I. TM since 1970. The clippings are still kept, they were bound for me in the printing house.
            But there were no such publications as, for example, the German Waffen-Arsenal or Waffen-Revue, American weapons magazines or books.
            I bought a handbook on World War II Czechoslovak planes in 1977. But there was no such dictionary. I had to deal with "decryption". So I learned that "letadlo" is an airfield, and "shame" is "attention."
  • kalibr
    14 March 2021 21: 01
    +3
    Quote: vladcub
    preparation of the article will take more time, which means less other articles will be.

    Therefore, everything is as it was, and it will be. That is, the train will go on the knurled one.
  • PilotS37
    PilotS37 16 March 2021 14: 26
    0
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Again you make us happy!
    Such is the question: why the "levers" so popular in the USSA (they, after all, were then called so: "United States of North America), did not take root in Europe?