Military Review

Foreign press: USA declared "war on microcircuits" to China

165

The US administration has blocked the supply of "dual-use" microchips to China. Representatives of the Joe Biden administration believe that China is using computer chips "against American interests, including for military purposes." The foreign press called this decision “the war of microcircuits”.


Against this background, the Asia Times published an article by columnist David Goldman, which says that such a decision by Washington would be able to slow down the growth of the Chinese economy, as well as deal a painful blow to the implementation of the program for the creation and distribution of 5G networks.

From Goldman's article:

China's leaders are betting on the country's economic future with productivity gains driven by 5G mobile broadband and its derivatives. And Washington's ban on the export of high-performance computer chips threatens to slow the planned development of 5G networks in China and cause $ 200 billion in damage.

It is noted that at the moment, experts disagree about how quickly China can replace American microcircuits based on the use of modern types of semiconductors that differ in a spectrum of special properties. At the same time, as an example of the fact that China has already begun to face difficulties, the suspension of the work of the plant for the production of microcircuits in Wuhan is cited "due to technological problems." The cost of this project in China is estimated at $ 18,5 billion.

The foreign press believes that the United States has declared a "war on microcircuits" on China in response to Beijing's attempts to block the supply of rare earth metals to the United States. The threat of depriving the United States of rare earth metals will lead to the collapse of the aircraft industry - for example, to problems with the production of F-35 fighters. Each of these fighters uses, according to various estimates, from 250 to 350 kg of rare earth metals.
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  1. Pivot
    Pivot 7 March 2021 10: 52
    +22
    China will work on 4G, but it will be hard for Americans without rare earth metals. Well, nothing authoritarian rare earth metals only harm the most democratic country.
    1. Quadro
      Quadro 7 March 2021 10: 56
      +34
      Amers and 4g are rare. In general, an extremely backward country in terms of Internet communications and power supply.
      1. Proxima
        Proxima 7 March 2021 11: 25
        -11%
        "The United States declared a" war on microcircuits "to China in response to Beijing's attempts to block the supply of rare earth metals to the United States" - from the text. Well, this is nonsense written. How do American experts imagine this? Besides the United States and China, the rich fellow REM deposits are in Australia, Malaysia, India, Brazil .. In short, an excuse is all .. negative
        1. Artunis
          Artunis 7 March 2021 12: 12
          +5
          Well, why write obvious nonsense if you are not a topic !? On the moon, there is also on Jupiter, but it is only the PRC that controls the production and supply of these elements on our planet by 90%! And you can at least have a mustache .... shouting that they are, but in fact only in China. In short, a gopher in the bushes.
          1. Avior
            Avior 7 March 2021 12: 44
            +15
            ... Well, why write obvious nonsense if you are not a topic !?

            And how does he control?
            People buy from China because they sell cheap
            In fact, apart from China, there are enough rare earth deposits, including in the United States.


            And earlier, the States were generally the main suppliers, until China began to sell cheaply

            And now it will additionally reopen the deposits.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. tikhonov66
              tikhonov66 9 March 2021 14: 21
              +2
              "... And Washington's ban on the export of high-performance computer chips threatens to slow the planned development of 5G networks in China
              ..."
              - a very, very strange statement from "mattress covers" ...
              8-))
              - actually TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company)
              It is the BIGGEST semiconductor chip manufacturer IN THE WORLD. \
              - And Taiwan is, by the way, China ...
              8-)))

              So - today TSMC has become a world leader in the segment of the production of semiconductor crystals (chips), occupying almost 52% of the WORLD market. It has overtaken Intel, including in terms of capitalization, and it owes its success to the growth in the value of shares, provoked, among other things, by information - about a "breakthrough" in the development of ultramodern 2 (TWO !!!) - nanometer production rates ... For comparison: 2nm is 150 times less than the wavelength of visible light "violet", and 320 times less than the wavelength of "red" light ... Ie. a transistor of this size - even theoretically - is IMPOSSIBLE to see in ANY optical microscope.
              https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-07-20_intel_bolshe_ne_pervayakrupnejshim

              Further - "IC" is "Integrated Circuit".
              There are two types of companies in the semiconductor IC chip industry (ie "chips"): 1) Companies such as Intel, Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron. They independently - and develop and produce their microcircuits (microprocessors and memory chips, etc.) - in their own factories. 2) but there are also "semiconductor factories" that do not design but only manufacture chips developed by third-party commercial and military customers - and TSMC in Taiwan is the largest in the world.

              Chips manufactured by TSMC are present in almost everything: smartphones (for example, Apple iPhones), high-performance computing platforms, PCs, tablets, servers, base stations and game consoles, IoT devices, digital consumer electronics, cars and almost all weapons systems. built in the twenty-first century. About 60% of the chips produced by TSMC are made for American companies.

              And a similar attempt to "wean" China away from the manufacture of the latest ICs developed in the United States - it already WAS - ten years ago. And then - the Taiwanese comrades - softly HELPED the United States that they risked ELEMENTALLY NOT RECEIVING the development of their "newest" ICs, since the cost of their production directly depends on the MULTIPLICATION of these ICs (the higher the circulation, the CHEAPER the chip!). And the "production circulation" is China (TSMC) !!!
              - and then the United States - "washed up" ... - recommending only to the Congress - "it is more correct to place its new semiconductor plants" ... But there is such an ambush - that large semiconductor production is VERY and VERY ecologically - "DIRTY" ...

              - but (again) at the end of 2000 -
              About 60% of the chips produced by TSMC are made for AMERICAN companies.

              So how the United States plans to "crank" its sanctions maneuver by "shutting down" its latest semiconductor developments to China is not very clear ...
              8-)))
              - after all, one has only TSMC - to hint slightly - how the US industry will have SERIOUS PROBLEMS with the cost of their production.

              - Moreover, the American "intellectual property" - has never been a "moral obstacle" for China - with outright COPY / RIPE (so-called reverse engineering) - the most "advanced" American ICs - for their subsequent mass production on Chinese semiconductors factories ... And even more so in the conditions of an open sanctions war being waged against China.
              8-))
        2. Doccor18
          Doccor18 7 March 2021 12: 23
          +9
          Quote: Proxima
          "The United States declared a" war on microcircuits "to China in response to Beijing's attempts to block the supply of rare earth metals to the United States" - from the text. Well, this is nonsense written. How do American experts imagine this? Besides the United States and China, the rich fellow REM deposits are in Australia, Malaysia, India, Brazil .. In short, an excuse is all .. negative

          There are large deposits around the world ... But only China has technologies (proven and reliable) and industrial potential that allows them to be extracted in thousands of tons. That is why the PRC controls almost 90% of the REM market. And in the coming decades, nothing in this regard will change ...
          Russia is only planning to become a "world giant in the production and export of rare earth metals." For more than 20 years he has been planning ... And these plans have no end ...
          1. orionvitt
            orionvitt 7 March 2021 14: 55
            +14
            Quote: Doccor18
            Russia is only planning to become a "world giant in the production and export of rare earth metals." For over 20 years he has been planning ..

            Yeah, what would you once again hear the groans about the raw materials economy? No, let them lie down until better times, the main thing is that they are.
            1. Overlock
              Overlock 7 March 2021 18: 38
              +23
              Quote: orionvitt
              No, let them lie down until better times, the main thing is that they are.

              I agree! When the Chinese run out of stock, and then we are on horseback!
              1. boni592807
                boni592807 10 March 2021 16: 53
                0
                Overlock (Sergey), March 7, 2021 18:38

                Quote: orionvitt
                No, let them lie down until better times, the main thing is that they are.

                I agree! When the Chinese run out of stock, and then we are on horseback!

                It's delightful! belay
                Maybe better - "And we have our own production and no worse than the United States and China."
                Or even ourselves (the USSR) in the production of microcircuits will not catch up? crying
                Then the maestro music and the curtain ... repeat
          2. Avior
            Avior 9 March 2021 14: 15
            0
            Does it mean that the States do not have industrial potential and technologies? or Australia? Are you seriously? If the United States needs it, Vietnam will have the same potential. That is why China introduces these sanctions more in words than in deeds, since this will create only temporary problems for the United States, which will be resolved quickly enough.
            And China will lose the most profitable market.
            1. Doccor18
              Doccor18 9 March 2021 15: 24
              0
              Quote: Avior
              Does it mean that the States do not have industrial potential and technologies? or Australia? Are you seriously?

              Absolutely.
              The United States was previously the leader in the production of rare earth metals, but then closed its production (by the way, not entirely clean) for the sake of the "green". Then they even carried their own ore to the PRC to processing plants ...
              This is how Chinese enterprises would have been used further, if not for the economic war and sanctions ... Now the States will need to revive their own enterprises (which, by the way, are completely outdated, so it looks like new ones will have to be built), train personnel, etc. All this takes a long time , expensive and unclean. Greta may not approve ...
              And as for Australia and Vietnam, then you got excited ... These countries are barely making ends meet. Where did they get an extra several billion greenbacks for the industry, which will not bring any significant dividends to the owners ...
              1. Avior
                Avior 9 March 2021 18: 59
                0
                all this while the Americans have no need - there are cheap Chinese ones.
                but the decision to resume mining on Mountain Pass has already been made.
                And if the Americans really need it, then there will be supplies from Vietnam and the technologies will be fine-tuned, it's a matter of time, and they will find the money for this.
                And the Chinese understand this very well.
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 7 March 2021 12: 03
        +11
        Quote: Quadro
        Amers and 4g are rare. In general, an extremely backward country in terms of Internet communications and power supply.

        I erased it from the globe so as not to annoy. yes
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 7 March 2021 18: 43
          +20
          Quote: Stroporez
          I erased it from the globe so as not to annoy.

          Well, it's just elementary, Watson!

          Globe of the German edition: no Poland and Ukraine.
          Or, conversely, there is no one, only Ukraine

          hi
          1. Lara Croft
            Lara Croft 7 March 2021 23: 17
            0
            Quote: Overlock
            Quote: Stroporez
            I erased it from the globe so as not to annoy.

            Well, it's just elementary, Watson!
            Globe of the German edition: no Poland and Ukraine.

            Your first globe is kind of strange. Iraq has disappeared and there is one state in the Balkan Peninsula ... all the CIS countries, Georgia and the Baltic states are Russian ... "orphans" may be offended ...
            You are cursed by the "ancient Sumerians", tk. the upper globe crosses out all the achievements of the lower ...
            1. Sly
              Sly 8 March 2021 08: 23
              +1
              Quote: Lara Croft

              Your first globe is kind of strange.

              So everything is simple there - Ukraine was taken out on a separate globe wassat
          2. Avior
            Avior 9 March 2021 14: 40
            0
            Globe of the German edition: no Poland and Ukraine.

            there is a lot of things there smile
            it looks like it is according to 1941
      3. Israel
        Israel 7 March 2021 18: 16
        +3
        The Americans, as a drug dealer, put everyone on the Internet, but they themselves "use" little. The largest companies in one way or another connected with the Internet, from hardware to software, are American. Even this site is hosted on American hardware and American software.
        1. tikhonov66
          tikhonov66 9 March 2021 14: 31
          0
          "... Even this site is hosted on American hardware and American software
          ..."
          - no, you didn't guess ...

          And if the "software", OFFICIALLY - possibly "American", then it is already written - for sure (highlighted like 8-) - exclusively by INDIAN, CHINESE and RUSSIAN programmers. And "mattress covers" - they PRINTED only bucks - to pay those programmers ...
          8-))
          But as for the "IRON" - so it is even OFFICIAL - CHINESE !!!
          For only a madman (like Poland or Ukraine) will buy EXPENSIVE, but "democratic" American iron - instead of "cost effective" - ​​but Chinese ...
          8-)))
          1. Israel
            Israel 10 March 2021 16: 10
            0
            And if the "software", OFFICIALLY - possibly "American", then it is already written - for sure (highlighted like 8-) - exclusively by INDIAN, CHINESE and RUSSIAN programmers. And "mattress covers" - they PRINTED only bucks - to pay those programmers ...

            No, not guessing, not even close to exclusive. The USA is an unattainable leader in IT now, just look at the list of IT companies and how many of them are American. Well, the USA is the place where the best brains of the world flock, it may be sad, but such are the realities.

            But as for the "IRON" - so it is even OFFICIAL - CHINESE !!!
            For only a madman (like Poland or Ukraine) will buy EXPENSIVE, but "democratic" American iron - instead of "cost effective" - ​​but Chinese ...
            8-)))


            It is assembled in China, but it may well be, but it did not become Chinese because of this, well, either the assembled Mercedes cars in Russia should be included in the asset of the Russian auto industry and say that Russia is in the top of the automotive industry.
    2. Cowbra
      Cowbra 7 March 2021 11: 03
      +13
      Just China will work on 5G without amerikosov - they have already launched the chip replacement program a long time ago. but in the USA without Huawei - 5G is not and is not expected. And in China it has been there for a long time.
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII 7 March 2021 11: 19
        +3
        Quote: Cowbra
        Just China will work on 5G without amerikosov - they have already launched the chip replacement program a long time ago. but in the USA without Huawei - 5G is not and is not expected. And in China it has been there for a long time.

        Yes, this is a cover for the war of microcircuits. Now they are quietly climbing up to their ears in the Chinese market of microcircuits, the standard practice of quietly worshiping the United States to its partners. And how so, the hegemon will publicly bow, they are not like that. laughing
      2. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 7 March 2021 11: 55
        0
        Quote: Cowbra

        +4
        Just China will work on 5G without amerikosov - they have already launched the chip replacement program a long time ago. but in the USA without Huawei - 5G is not and is not expected. And in China there has long been

        China to fight with the United States? China is hiding amerovskih candy wrappers for the most "I can not" ... If the US suddenly disappears somewhere, who will fill the disappeared market? My American acquaintances claim that there are a lot of Chinese goods in stores. And suddenly they disappear ... wassat
        In short, the Americans, as always, did not calculate the rebound from such actions ... And the fact that China can "resist" and establish copies of the necessary chips ... And on all sorts of patents and copyrights ... they always, to put it mildly ... Well, little was considered ...
        1. bk0010
          bk0010 7 March 2021 13: 19
          +2
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          If the US suddenly goes somewhere, who will fill the disappeared market?
          The Chinese are one and a half billion, they themselves will "eat" everything.
        2. Alex777
          Alex777 7 March 2021 13: 23
          +2
          My American acquaintances say that there are a lot of Chinese goods in stores.

          Back in 2000, 70% of the clothes in stores at all price levels were from China.
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 7 March 2021 13: 59
            +2
            ... And Trump has already received letters from the heads of the largest retail chains in the United States, they say, honey ... If you impose duties on Chinese rags, we will have nothing to sell. And the "fraer handed back" instantly - this is no longer a joke, since the whole country literally turns out to be "naked." -and it turns out that all pants in China are sewn)))
          2. WIKI
            WIKI 7 March 2021 18: 55
            -1
            "And at the end of 2018, global clothing exports amounted to $ 494 billion, while China's exports accounted for a third of total exports ($ 158 billion). Among the countries of the former USSR, Ukraine is in first place in terms of clothing exports ($ 563 million), followed by followed by Belarus (498 million dollars), in third place is Russia with an export volume of 413 million dollars. "
        3. nickname7
          nickname7 7 March 2021 14: 23
          +5
          ... set up copies of the necessary chips

          The Chinese will not be able to adjust the latest generations of chips, due to the fact that lithographic machines are needed, which in themselves are the most complex technology. They don't have lithographs. 7nm lithographic machines are manufactured in the EU, the US has banned them from being sold to China.
          In 10 years, all Chinese gadgets, from smartphones to computers, will become obsolete, this is the meaning of Western sanctions.
          1. Overlock
            Overlock 7 March 2021 18: 45
            +23
            Quote: nickname7
            10 years from now, all Chinese gadgets from smartphones to computers will become obsolete

            Much earlier, iron ages after 3-4 years. And if iron works in high-tech industries, it works even faster. Software changes like foliage on a tree
          2. mvg
            mvg 8 March 2021 03: 32
            0
            7nm lithographic machines are made in the EU, the US has banned them from being sold to China

            To refute yourself, check out the 10 rated processors for smartphones. 4 of them are Chinese.
            Or just processor manufacturers ..

            https://planshetniypc.ru/processory-smartfonov-planshetov.html
            1. military_cat
              military_cat 8 March 2021 07: 20
              0
              The story with them is the same as with the Russian processor Elbrus - they are produced in Taiwan, at TSMC factories.
              1. mvg
                mvg 8 March 2021 16: 29
                +1
                they are made in Taiwan, at TSMC factories.

                I didn’t count my daughters in Taiwan, only geographically China.
                They have their own production of RISC processors and x86 processors. And everything is at the level of the best Kualkom and Apple, and Intel. There is a national OS. And, most importantly, the process technology and money. They can saturate the market with purely Chinese in a couple of years and do not care about licenses.
                1. military_cat
                  military_cat 8 March 2021 16: 47
                  0
                  Chinese x86 Zhaoxin is custom made in Taiwan.
                  The Chinese have their own technical process lagging behind noticeably, 28nm of their development is just being prepared for implementation.
                2. Israel
                  Israel 8 March 2021 23: 01
                  +1
                  Who will allow them to sell their x86 processors somewhere further than China.

                  They can saturate the market with purely Chinese in a couple of years and do not care about licenses.

                  If they could, they would have done it long ago.
                  1. mvg
                    mvg 8 March 2021 23: 12
                    0
                    If they could, they would have done it long ago

                    Anywhere. In the early 2000s, the Chinese bought out Ciryx with intellectual property. Now their processors are at the level of the top-end i5 Intel of the ninth-tenth generation. Themselves, on their own, collect supercomputers. Among the top 500 computers in the world, China is in first place, almost 50%, then the United States, then Japan.
                    PS: Regarding the market, I mean smartphones, Xiaomi is no worse than Qualcom or Apple. This RF is completely dependent on imported components .. there is no full production cycle. What's in the military, what's in the civilian sphere. There is not even a national Axis, there are derivatives from Linukh, Alt, Astra, Ulyanovsk ... etc.
                    1. Israel
                      Israel 8 March 2021 23: 36
                      0
                      Anywhere. In the early 2000s, the Chinese bought out Ciryx with intellectual property.

                      Only these are other Chinese from Taiwan.
                      1. mvg
                        mvg 9 March 2021 16: 44
                        +1
                        Only these are other Chinese from Taiwan

                        Here is a comparison with the i5-7400 16nm process technology, 8 cores. These are exactly those Chinese. So that Elbrus lived like this
                        https://www.ixbt.com/news/2020/04/12/kaixian-kx-u6780a-cpu-intel-amd.html
                      2. Israel
                        Israel 10 March 2021 16: 04
                        0
                        Doesn't Elbrus live like that? It seems like the same articles as the processor from Elbrus competes with Intel in its tests. And the KaiXian KX-U6780A is produced jointly by a Chinese-Taiwanese firm, it will go well for the domestic market of China, the United States will not allow them to go outside.
                        The current situation is such that practically all modern microelectronics will have US patents or technologies, and also software. The same Huawei needs to "fight" on two fronts, import substitution of hardware, and the second software, and now with the software is even a big problem, without access to Google. it is difficult for services to sell smartphones beyond China.
                        Therefore, as I see it, China will not undertake anything against the United States until they can get away from American technologies.
                      3. mvg
                        mvg 10 March 2021 17: 03
                        0
                        It seems like the same articles as the processor from Elbrus competes with Intel in its tests

                        These are the articles I read, after the announcement of a tender for the replacement of iron for Russian Railways. Where Elbrus appeared at 200-400 thousand per system block.
                        With software, China is easier, they have a free Linuh, a free office, and China is more centralized, or something. There they will say to switch to the national operating system, all state-owned enterprises will trump and switch, and we will pirate on "vents" and other Microsoft, Corel, Adobe, AutoCAD, etc.
                        Regarding the hardware patents, remember how China got the license for the RISC architecture, just in fact ... and they don't give a damn about the sanctions. They will occupy any niche that is being mastered .. Including software.
                        CNC machines come with their own software, and engineering programs are already widely pirated, the PRC will disassemble and rewrite them for themselves ... it's not so difficult. And we had to do this in the 90s, both in microelectronics and in software.
                      4. Israel
                        Israel 10 March 2021 18: 13
                        0
                        Regarding the hardware patents, remember how China got the license for the RISC architecture, just in fact ... and they don't give a damn about the sanctions. They will occupy any niche that is being mastered ..

                        If China does not care (and even then with restrictions), and if China wants to supply somewhere outside of China, problems may already begin, remember ZTE.

                        CNC machines come with their own software, and engineering programs are already widely pirated, the PRC will disassemble and rewrite them for themselves ... it's not so difficult.

                        As a reverse engineer, I will say yes it is not difficult, and if the purpose of the reverse is not a search for vulnerabilities, but further development and adaptation, then the quality will be worse than the original.
              2. Zaits
                Zaits 9 March 2021 13: 13
                +2
                Quote: mvg
                Yes, anywhere.

                Yeah, right now.

                As soon as ZTE ran into trouble, the staff were flattened to the point of stopping operations. And ZTE is a serious company, not a trifle.

                This is a note for those who like to talk about independent Chinese electronics.
      3. Israel
        Israel 8 March 2021 22: 59
        -1
        Still it would be nice to look at the architecture of these chips, then you can see that they are on licensed architectures and there copyright, and US technology will be a big book.
        China can do gave itself chips, the problem will be to sell them anywhere further than China.
        1. tikhonov66
          tikhonov66 9 March 2021 14: 46
          0
          "... It would be nice to look at the architecture of these chips, then you can see that they are on licensed architectures and there are copyrights ...
          ..."
          - 10 years ago - after China tore off (and began to mass produce) a 64-bit RISK processor - the SYMBOLIC price was CLEARED to it IMMEDIATELY sold a LICENSE for "RISK-architecture"
          8-)))
          For even within the framework of the WTO - the "ban on the sale of copied chips" - only affects the chips themselves, but does not apply to PRODUCTS using such chips. And China sells mainly - namely "using PRODUCTS".
          - so the "RISK license" was sold to China on the principle "from a black sheep - AT LEAST WOOL CLOCK", because if it were not sold, it would not change anything for China. In his grave, he saw all sorts of "violations of licenses and copyrights." This is CHINA!
          - And "at worst" - the domestic market of China - has almost caught up with the US market and CONTINUES to grow (in contrast to the domestic market of "stars and stripes")
          8-))
  2. tikhonov66
    tikhonov66 9 March 2021 14: 36
    +2
    "... My American acquaintances claim that there are a lot of Chinese goods in stores.
    ..."
    - "a lot" - THIS WONDER THIS WORD.
    8-)))
    "In stores" in the USA - there are ONLY (!) CHINESE goods.
    Cheap and QUALITATIVE at the same time.
    (For "shitty consumer goods" China in the USA - DOES NOT SUPPLY !!!)
    1. Israel
      Israel 10 March 2021 16: 06
      0
      This is how the United States keeps China, because to sew "pants" for the Americans instead of the Chinese, who want to be full. For China, with its billions of people, this is very critical.
  • RealPilot
    RealPilot 7 March 2021 11: 19
    +15
    In this case, as Russia, this is not at all as terrible as it seems.

    The severance of cooperation between China and the United States weakens both, and also inclines China to seek allies with resources and military power to balance. And this is us first of all.
    Plus, this increases the demand for our science, since part of the functions of design centers using the same microcircuits can be transferred to us from China due to the intellectual characteristics of the population of our countries.

    I dealt with microelectronics, my first education was specialized, I can say that everything is piecemeal and from the point of view of topology, everything is fine with us! But in the mass segment ... Therefore, the Chinese and I can be very useful to each other.
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 7 March 2021 14: 04
      +3
      The severance of cooperation between China and the United States weakens both, and also inclines China to seek allies with resources and military power to balance. And this is us first of all.

      I saw myself how Xi Jinping bluntly proposed to GDP to deepen relations to a military alliance. GDP remained silent.
      We do not need to rush with this yet. The further, the more they will call. bully
      1. WIKI
        WIKI 7 March 2021 21: 18
        +2
        Quote: Alex777
        I saw myself how Xi Jinping directly suggested that the GDP should deepen relations to a military alliance

        "Recently, the Ministry of Defense of the PRC announced that Beijing does not plan to conclude a military alliance with Moscow, refuting assumptions about the intentions of the partners to jointly resist NATO," writes the South China Morning Post. According to Chinese experts, military alliances are concluded only by countries wishing to unleash a war - this is a format corners and makes it impossible to negotiate. "


        https://russian.rt.com/inotv/2021-03-04/SCMP-perezhitok-proshlogo--eksperti
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 7 March 2021 14: 37
      +5
      Quote: RealPilot
      Therefore, the Chinese and I can be very useful to each other.

      For the time being. We nafig are not interested in the hegemony of China, as well as the hegemony of the United States.
    3. Overlock
      Overlock 7 March 2021 18: 47
      +17
      Quote: RealPilot
      Therefore, the Chinese and I can be very useful to each other.

      Recently they wrote that the accidents of our spacecraft were due to defective Chinese microcircuits. We are the market for them and nothing more.
      1. Zaits
        Zaits 9 March 2021 13: 25
        0
        Quote: Overlock
        Recently they wrote that the accidents of our spacecraft were due to defective Chinese microcircuits.


        Who wrote, where did he write? The impression is the same as in that joke.
        "Not in the lottery, but in preference. Not the Volga, but 10 rubles. I did not win, I lost."

        There were accidents due to microcircuits, but not because of Chinese ones, and purely due to their own carelessness.
      2. tikhonov66
        tikhonov66 9 March 2021 15: 00
        0
        "... Recently they wrote that the accidents of our spacecraft were due to defective Chinese microcircuits.
        ..."
        - and it is not necessary to read, then - what they write "on the fences".
        8-))
        - read it, believe it ... - but in fact - there is firewood ...
        8-)))
        Russian "spaceships" - they have long been made on the DOMESTIC "element base". And if the developer applied in the scheme - HORSE KNOWS WHAT that does not have, say, resistance to cosmic ionizing radiation (not having the so-called radiation resistance) - then ...
        - well ... here is such a THIS - "developer" ...
        With his filthy broom ...
        8-))
    4. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 9 March 2021 14: 54
      +1
      "... some of the functions of design centers on the same microcircuits can be transferred to us from China due to the intellectual characteristics of the population of our countries.
      ..."
      - maybe someone has heard about the "superscalar" architecture of computer processors and Intel's "Pentium" processor - and this architecture was brought to the USA by the Russian scientist Pentkovsky, whom Intel LOOKED at from the Russian school of Professor BABAYAN, which by this time had already developed the processor ELBRUS, based on the same "superscalar" architecture.
      https://www.ixbt.com/cpu/e2k-spec.html
      1. Israel
        Israel 10 March 2021 16: 19
        0
        A good story for an MIPT skit, or you can walk on the keywords Vinod Dham.
  • Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 7 March 2021 12: 01
    +4
    Quote: Pivot
    China will work on 4G, but it will be hard for Americans without rare earth metals. Well, nothing authoritarian rare earth metals only harm the most democratic country.

    It seems that the Chinese will get out, or copy-paste, or they will take countermeasures, just hit the minke whales on the nose.
    1. tikhonov66
      tikhonov66 9 March 2021 15: 02
      -1
      "... China will work on 4G too
      ..."
      - China - it HAS "5G" for a long time - and further develops ...
      8-))
  • Piramidon
    Piramidon 7 March 2021 14: 08
    0
    Quote: Pivot
    China will work on 4G, but it will be hard for Americans without rare earth metals.

    The Yankes even buy ready-made components for their super-duper Phy-35s in China.
    https://www.aex.ru/news/2014/1/7/115319/
    1. Overlock
      Overlock 7 March 2021 18: 48
      +23
      Quote: Piramidon
      The Yankes even buy ready-made components for their super-duper Phy-35s in China.

      And Apple's production is entirely in China.
  • Maz
    Maz 7 March 2021 14: 53
    +3
    The 5G network in China is already ten times more than on the entire planet. And they are building it quadrupling every year, so this is not going to threaten China yet. But the rare earth elements that China can easily stop supplying to the US and satellites - this is going to be fun.
  • Israel
    Israel 7 March 2021 18: 11
    +3
    China will not do anything in the near future, it will regularly supply rare earth metals and other products to the United States, because "everyone" in this world wants to get to the US market.
    Actually, China and did nothing after the United States harshly ran over Huawei. Until China gets all the necessary technologies and develops its internal market, it will not seriously argue with the United States, because now it is tantamount to biting the “feeding hand”.
  • Quadro
    Quadro 7 March 2021 10: 53
    -1
    Fools, you yourself have Chinese chips and microcircuits, only from Taiwan. Will you forbid them to supply them to the People's Republic of China? They are not that dumb.
    1. WIKI
      WIKI 7 March 2021 21: 43
      +1
      Quote: Quadro
      Fools, you yourself have Chinese chips and microcircuits, only from Taiwan. Will you forbid them to supply them to the People's Republic of China? They are not that dumb.

      “In June 2020, the US Department of Commerce ordered microelectronics manufacturers using US technology and equipment to apply for licenses before fulfilling orders for Huawei. This ruling specifically targets TSMC, which is the main supplier of advanced chips to Huawei.

      In this conflict, TSMC is still choosing the side of the United States as a closer partner. "
      1. Zaits
        Zaits 9 March 2021 13: 17
        0
        Quote: WIKI
        In this conflict, TSMC is still choosing the side of the United States as a closer partner. "


        You might think they have a choice.
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 7 March 2021 10: 59
    0
    The United States can only invent sanctions. Fighting with China is a little gutsy. The times of Herosima are over. You can get it in the teeth. And microcircuits are all they can do.
    1. ammunition
      ammunition 7 March 2021 11: 13
      +10
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      The United States can only invent sanctions. Fighting with China is a little gutsy.

      Actually ... sanctions are war. winked American War. And it works quite effectively. IMHO ..
      --------------------
      Expand the world map. Try to assess the strengths and resources of the parties. In the sense of the United States vs China.
      and keep in mind that China is not the USSR, it does not have full autonomy. There is no even incomplete autonomy.
      1. Quadro
        Quadro 7 March 2021 11: 17
        0
        And the United States has no autonomy at all. Cut off Taiwan and Intel supplies from China and the Americans will sit on lamps.
        1. ammunition
          ammunition 7 March 2021 11: 46
          +5
          Quote: Quadro
          And the United States has no autonomy at all

          The United States had full autonomy when they decided - to go into isolationism and wait, or put the whole world under their control ... this is in the late 30s .. They decided that they had enough forces and resources to choose the second option ... .. So .. they do not need complete autonomy, since the whole world is under their control.
        2. boriz
          boriz 7 March 2021 12: 09
          +3
          They closed the production of lamps back in the 70s.
        3. Holgerton
          Holgerton 7 March 2021 12: 12
          +12
          To begin with, you would look at the geography of Intel's production facilities and factories, and then transplant the USA to lamps.
          Intel keeps in China only the production of old models of server processors, focused mostly on the Chinese market, plus there are a couple of small factories focused exclusively on China.

          Plus, in industry and aviation, not Intel and AMD products are used, but processors on the ARM architecture, which are not produced anywhere. The only exceptions are the server components.

          And the cherry on top, if China cuts off the supply of rare earth metals / semiconductors / chips to the United States, then it will lose about half of its market in this segment, if not more, then there will be a reduction in production, and there will be very real prospects for bankruptcy and collapse of many Chinese companies. in this domain.
          1. lucul
            lucul 7 March 2021 13: 33
            -3
            And the cherry on top, if China cuts off the supply of rare earth metals / semiconductors / chips to the United States, then it will lose about half of its market in this segment, if not more, then there will be a reduction in production, and there will be very real prospects for bankruptcy and collapse of many Chinese companies. in this domain.

            What nonsense - it is better to lose a couple of companies than then you will be bombed with weapons created from your rare earths.
            1. Holgerton
              Holgerton 7 March 2021 16: 13
              +7
              Nonsense is when people think that China's economy, oriented exclusively towards Western needs, is going to fight the United States, its main market.
              The West creates a proposal, the East satisfies it, and this is what the world now rests on, guaranteed mutual nuclear destruction has been replaced by guaranteed economic destruction. Nothing new.
            2. Holgerton
              Holgerton 7 March 2021 16: 19
              +3
              Well, as a supplement, the Japanese are already conducting experiments on the extraction of rare earths from the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, even the most conservative estimates estimate potential deposits at 80 billion tons, so China is doing the right thing, that it sells while it is being sold, the development of the industry for the extraction and processing of rare earths are in full swing.
          2. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 7 March 2021 14: 14
            +1
            Quote: Holgerton
            And the cherry on top, if China cuts off the supply of rare earth metals / semiconductors / chips to the United States, then it will lose about half of its market in this segment, if not more, then there will be a reduction in production, and there will be very real prospects for bankruptcy and collapse of many Chinese companies. in this domain.


            This is a double-edged sword, i.e. China is the largest consumer market for cars, phones, etc. and if the CCP restricts the import of American products, then the losses for the American corporation will be very significant + a ban on the supply of processors, conductors, etc. will hit Intel, AMD and other companies first of all ... of course, in the short term, China will have problems, and in the long term, local manufacturers will completely replace imported American products, so in this regard, Americans are digging their own grave.
            1. Israel
              Israel 7 March 2021 18: 37
              +1
              Only China does not open up its market much and creates many obstacles
        4. Errr
          Errr 7 March 2021 15: 09
          +6
          Quote: Quadro
          Cut off Taiwan and Intel supplies from China and the Americans will sit on lamps.
          Well, yes, well, yes ... In the photo below is not a very sloppy "lamp" made in Costa Rica. laughing
          1. Quadro
            Quadro 7 March 2021 15: 27
            -3
            Quote: Herrr
            Quote: Quadro
            Cut off Taiwan and Intel supplies from China and the Americans will sit on lamps.
            Well, yes, well, yes ... In the photo below is not a very sloppy "lamp" made in Costa Rica. laughing

            Oh yes, the great microelectronics industry of Costa Rica, how could I forget, because everyone is aware of the great products of Costa Rica
            1. Errr
              Errr 7 March 2021 15: 29
              +4
              I've been on the Costa Rican for six years. Now with the help of the latter I am conducting a conversation with you. smile
          2. tikhonov66
            tikhonov66 9 March 2021 15: 07
            -1
            "... The photo below is a not-so-sucking" lamp "made in Costa Rica.
            ..."
            - WEIRD!
            "in Costa Rica" - there they just "welded" a semiconductor crystal (chip) into a package, which was made in the same Chinese TSMC ...
            - learn MATCH, literate.
            8-))
            1. Errr
              Errr 9 March 2021 19: 11
              0
              Quote: tikhonov66
              "in Costa Rica" - there they just "welded" a semiconductor crystal (chip) into a package, which was made in the same Chinese TSMC ...
              Directly to TSMC? smile
              Why not Intel's D1D and D1X factories in Hillsboro, Oregon, or Fab 32 in Chandler, Arizona? smile
              And I have listed only those Intel factories (located in the United States and therefore geographically closest to Costa Rica), which manufacture 22 nm chips. in my computer just like that.
      2. DymOk_v_dYmke
        DymOk_v_dYmke 7 March 2021 11: 43
        -1
        Quote: ammunition
        Actually ... sanctions are war. American War. And it works quite effectively.

        Star Colorado mentality.
        But it also dives into it. hi
      3. orionvitt
        orionvitt 7 March 2021 15: 05
        +3
        Quote: ammunition
        Try to assess the strengths and resources of the parties

        It's not about the map of the world. In the last decades, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Americans did nothing but optimize their economy. As a result, they were left practically without industry, which safely moved to China and the rest of the "third world" countries. The main resources of the United States are currently two. The first is the dollar, which has already been "printed" outrageously a lot and which everyone is fed up with. And the second is the American army, which is already feared only by the very timid. There is no doubt that the monster is still strong, but it doesn’t cause fear and even more respect.
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 7 March 2021 22: 12
          +1
          Quote: orionvitt
          the Americans did nothing but optimize their economy. As a result, they were left with practically no industry, which safely moved to China and the rest of the Third World.

          Why break a car that works well. And you don't really need to hunchback. He brought production beyond the limits, and live on interest from profits. "Over the past 30 years, the United States has only exported capital from the whole world. Due to this, the level of consumption in the United States has been artificially increased. Because imported capital comes to the stock market, shares are bought for dollars, dollars go to the former owners of shares, the former owners of shares buy at them cars, apartments, etc. "
    2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
      Sidor Amenpodestovich 7 March 2021 11: 15
      +5
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Herosimas

      A man named Semyon wears women's clothes and asks to call himself Sima.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 7 March 2021 11: 42
        +4
        Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
        A man named Semyon wears women's clothes and asks to call himself Sima.

        I support your struggle for universal literacy.))))))) Otherwise, soon there will be three more mistakes in the word. Shame.
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 7 March 2021 13: 57
          +3
          Four mistakes! Still - ischo. But not everyone lives and prints from Russia. I also find it difficult to maintain the correct spelling. Here is such a sad trend (if you correctly understood the meaning of this horseradish (Horseradish, or Horseradish (Latin Armorácia rusticána) is a perennial herb, a species of the Horseradish genus (Armoracia) of the Cabbage family (Brassicaceae).) Among non-Russian writers in Russian. hi
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 7 March 2021 14: 08
            +2
            Quote: sharp-lad
            But not everyone lives and prints from Russia

            So Yes. However, if I wrote on an English-speaking forum, I would be grateful for your comments. In a mild form, of course.)))) Our Bulgarians are sometimes difficult to read, especially when they begin to get carried away.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 7 March 2021 14: 10
      0
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      And microcircuits are all they can do.

      In the same China to buy.
  • Pereira
    Pereira 7 March 2021 11: 01
    0
    And if China blocks it? What then?
    1. Holgerton
      Holgerton 7 March 2021 12: 23
      +4
      Then China will lose its largest and most profitable market, which makes up at least 50% of the total volume of supplied REM / semiconductors / memory chips / processors in absolute terms.
      Then there will be market oversaturation followed by a collapse in prices, bankruptcy of many manufacturers fully / partially oriented towards the United States, reduction of the remaining production, etc. etc.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 7 March 2021 12: 25
        +5
        If the United States is left without rare earth metals, there will be a shortage of microcircuits of the entire line with a multiple increase in prices in the world. Moreover, China will be able to produce, but the United States will no longer. In the rest of the world, the Chinese will win back.
        1. lucul
          lucul 7 March 2021 13: 34
          -4
          If the United States is left without rare earth metals, there will be a shortage of microcircuits of the entire line with a multiple increase in prices in the world. Moreover, China will be able to produce, but the United States will no longer. In the rest of the world, the Chinese will win back.

          It's too difficult for an opponent)))
          1. Holgerton
            Holgerton 7 March 2021 16: 08
            0
            What are you, you and your own opinion to form too hard, and you are trying to answer for others)))
        2. Holgerton
          Holgerton 7 March 2021 16: 04
          +5
          If the United States is left without Chinese REM, then in the world there will be a shortage of which specific lines of microcircuits? (hint: high quality and military grade, but more on that later)

          Even with the most favorable development of events, China will not be able to win back even a third of the losses from the closure of the US market in the rest of the world, due to the presence of other players, such as European / Japanese / Taiwanese / South Korean and other Asian manufacturers, who will not miss the chance of a busy new market. like ARM processors.

          Of course, you can say that China can cut off supplies to them, but there is one unpleasant moment, the Chinese market is already experiencing a shortage of machine tools and spare parts for working with semiconductors in all directions due to US restrictions on the supply of this equipment to China, prices for used / y equipment from Japan and the UK grew ~ 3 times compared to last year. Consequently, with limited supplies
          REM, China runs the risk of facing difficulties in production due to the inability to obtain tools and service for production facilities. Of course, there are Chinese machines, but so far there is still a high dependence on Western technologies, especially in the processing and production of silicon matrices.

          But let's skip these details, the main reason for the Chinese problems will lie in the microelectronics market itself.
          To replace "all lines of microcircuits" of the United States, the main players in the Chinese market (which use American technologies) will take more than one year, since there are great doubts that the Americans will want to give all their developments to China.

          You are of course right, as a result of all these games, there will be a deficit and a multiple increase in prices, but they will most likely be used not by China, which has lost the US market, but by Japan / South Caucasus / Europe (the main consumers of US microelectronics), which will prefer to purchase and develop analogs at home. with the help of American companies, rather than waiting for the Chinese, who have already given them "bookmarks" with their electronics more than once.
          1. lucul
            lucul 7 March 2021 17: 15
            -5
            Even with the most favorable development of events, China will not be able to win back even a third of the losses from the closure of the US market in the rest of the world, due to the presence of other players, such as European / Japanese / Taiwanese / South Korean and other Asian manufacturers, who will not miss the chance of a busy new market. like ARM processors.

            What nonsense)))
            China is a global manufacturing base, and the loss of the US market will simply cut the US off from industrial supplies. In many respects, China is practically a monopolist and the only manufacturer.
            China generates 20% of total world GDP, its imports and exports are balanced, its trade relations are excellent, its economy is one third larger than the United States and is growing 3 times faster.
            The United States slept through the moment when it was possible to rein in China, and now it is too late. In industrial terms, the entire Western world is already inferior to China; China has bought up industrial enterprises in Europe for $ 10 billion in the last 480 years alone. You think that they are European - but no, they have long been the property of China.
            China should have been besieged in 2003, but now it is too late - there is just an explosive growth in domestic consumption, it will calmly send goods to the domestic market.
            Your judgment about China is stuck at the 2010 level, or even earlier.
            China is already brazenly showing its teeth to the Western world, because it realizes its power.
            1. Israel
              Israel 10 March 2021 16: 22
              0
              You think that they are European - but no, they have long been the property of China.

              Even Ukraine threw the Chinese from Motor Sich, and you are talking about the Europeans. And just read about the Chinese company ZTE (the second manufacturer of telecommunications equipment in China), how the United States simply suspended its operations with a stroke of the pen.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 7 March 2021 11: 04
    +1
    if China completely excludes the sale of rare earths for the United States (and for those sites that supply components based on them for the United States), this is definitely not a substitute ...
    and so ... a number of electronic components have long been produced in China ... reengineering in many areas has already been fully mastered by the Chinese (there are also many of their own developments) ... there will be a serious drawdown in only a part of server hardware and software ... BUT China with this for sure deal
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 7 March 2021 11: 14
      +7
      The United States has long since launched a rare earth import substitution program. China's share has already dropped from 95% to 82% in the global market.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 7 March 2021 12: 26
        -1
        In the USA there are crumbs. They will scoop out quickly.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 7 March 2021 13: 56
          +2
          These rare earths are ubiquitous and abundant (compared to consumption). The problem is that their mining is super dirty and environmentally terrible. But for the sake of safety, the greens will be shut up and that's it
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 7 March 2021 11: 14
    0
    I never thought that some kind of electronics hadn't been copied in China yet ...
  • looker-on
    looker-on 7 March 2021 11: 17
    -1
    As soon as business problems on both sides gain critical mass, they sit down and agree
    1. lucul
      lucul 7 March 2021 13: 36
      -3
      As soon as business problems on both sides gain critical mass, they sit down and agree

      Laughing .... usually it ended in war))) What prevented the Germans and Anglo-Saxons from sitting down and agreeing in 1914? ))))
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 7 March 2021 11: 21
    -4
    In a penguin, if you look under a microscope, there will be no inscription in Chinese on some microcircuit: And we have a red button! Well, well!
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 7 March 2021 11: 27
    0
    The Yankees will print candy wrappers, reopen their deposits, even if it comes out more expensive, but they can live on from the Chinese strategic raw materials. But the Chinese without chips and microprocessors created with the execution of American technologies and patents - no way! In the Middle Kingdom, there is already panic due to the limited supply of processors for Hayomi, Lenovo, Zte, this is a huge share of the global mobile and communications market, the Chinese, instead of 7nm processors, can create 28nm processors themselves, no less. It will take years before they can create modern processors themselves from scratch, the financial and reputational damage for China will be enormous, hundreds of billions of dollars in direct losses, claims under unfulfilled long-term contracts. ...
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 7 March 2021 12: 28
      +2
      What could be the reputational damage to China if it is the result of US actions? This may well go to the category of force majeure.
      1. Lara Croft
        Lara Croft 7 March 2021 23: 41
        -1
        Quote: Pereira
        This may well go to the category of force majeure.

        Not at all. This is not a force majeure circumstance, since when concluding contracts, suppliers from the PRC had to focus on several suppliers of similar products ...
        result of US action

        there is such a concept - entrepreneurial risk (which can be insured), if the Chinese supplier did not take into account something in the supply scheme, then this is his problem, not the Buyer's ...
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 7 March 2021 13: 34
      +2
      Quote: Thrifty
      It will take years before they can create modern processors themselves from scratch, the financial and reputational damage for China will be enormous, hundreds of billions of dollars in direct losses, claims under unfulfilled long-term contracts. ...

      Damn, what should I do then? I am writing from ACER, calling from Huoywei ...
    3. lucul
      lucul 7 March 2021 13: 38
      0
      But the Chinese without microcircuits and microprocessors created with the execution of American technologies and patents -No!

      They wanted to spit on patents)))
      They wanted to turn them off from YouTube - so they quickly created their own TikTok))))
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 7 March 2021 11: 36
    +6
    US blocks shipments of "dual-use" microchips to China
    The Americans have already bent their "sanctions stick" so much that it begins to crackle. As if in the end it did not break and one end flew into the American forehead. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Turkey ..., scare India, Europe - everyone is familiar with the US sanctions.
  • Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 7 March 2021 11: 49
    +8
    China itself is already in a position to develop microcircuits and software. Chinese students under the government program and support have graduated from the best Western universities and now work in the electronics industry in China.
    1. HAM
      HAM 7 March 2021 12: 25
      +5
      I have an old Japanese transceiver (radio station) and a service manual that is native to it. So, it was necessary to make some repairs, but the circuits turned out to be unimportant, poorly printed, you cannot find circuits and connections ... downloaded the CHINESE version of the same schemes already in Chinese - everything is clearly printed, all connection addresses are visible perfectly ...
      It turns out when the copies are better than the original ... I suppose the same thing with the microcircuits is, in vain the Americans are puffed up, everything has already been copied and reworked ...
    2. Your stranger
      Your stranger 7 March 2021 13: 06
      -2
      Are Chinese students who graduated from Western universities better than professors from those universities?
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 7 March 2021 14: 08
        +1
        No professors have anything to do with serial technologies.
        Like any scientists, professors are those who like to satisfy their curiosity at the expense of others, and it is far from the fact that a literate student will certainly be able to become a good scientist, and even more so a professor.
        To become a candidate for the female sex, the satisfaction of the leader is enough, the muschshchina must be able to think and have a cast-iron oppa, but to become a doctor - a cast-iron in oppa is unnecessary (but unreleased), but the golden head must not only be present in this process, but also participate. And if she is also capable of managing the process of extracting this gold from tons of ore, then this is already the road to Nobel.
        1. Your stranger
          Your stranger 7 March 2021 14: 22
          -1
          Serial technologies were developed by the capitalist countries, not by the Chinese,
          In China, production is based on Western technologies,
          If the country's capital does not give the Chinese the next generation of technology
          It will be like at AvtoVAZ Lada 2101 ++++, until Renault came to them
      2. bar
        bar 7 March 2021 14: 41
        0
        Quote: Stranger
        Are Chinese students who graduated from Western universities better than professors from those universities?

        There are more of them than professors. And they, unlike those professors, work in the real economy and create a real product.
    3. Israel
      Israel 7 March 2021 18: 42
      +1
      Chinese students under the government program and support have graduated from the best Western universities and now work in the electronics industry in China.

      And many got greens (I know two) work in the USA, they liked the air of "freedom" more.
      And if China were able to independently develop and produce chips, then this news, in principle, would not have happened.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 7 March 2021 11: 53
    +2
    It seems that the Chinese will disassemble a couple of lines into cogs and in a year they will copy one to one. And they will continue to do mikruhi, but this time exclusively for the domestic and markets of loyal allies, while closing the market in general to all third-party microcircuits. As a result, the Azat-Eurasian separate economic independent cluster is formed, and it is completely self-sufficient.
    1. Your stranger
      Your stranger 7 March 2021 13: 07
      +2
      Until they disassemble, while copying, while adjusting production, progress in the world will jump one step higher,
      And those of their works and costs will be useless to anyone,
      1. Dima68
        Dima68 7 March 2021 17: 10
        0
        and it is so necessary for everyone, is progress a step higher? Already, top models of smartphones have redundant capabilities for most users. It's the same with computers.
        1. Your stranger
          Your stranger 7 March 2021 18: 35
          +2
          But they will buy something newer
    2. Israel
      Israel 7 March 2021 18: 43
      +1
      They will disassemble for a year, assemble for a year, debug for a year, at which time competitors will go even further and will additionally sue for violation of rights, as a result, these products will not go anywhere further than China.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 7 March 2021 12: 20
    +1
    High-tech business is serious, important, but you still need serious, modern production facilities and resources!
    So, you will have to strain on each side of the confrontation, each in his own way ...
    We then do our own business specifically, purposefully !!! We have our own holes in the production of everything we need, enough and NOBODY will help us! By yourself, by yourself!
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 7 March 2021 12: 54
    0
    So, in the meantime, Rosatom refused Microsoft, the tender for 200 million rubles was won by a Russian developer. The name of the company is classified. They can if they want.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 13: 04
    -1
    Funny ones make pans in China, then bring them to the seal and pack them in boxes with a sticker "Made in Germany" laughing
  • Your stranger
    Your stranger 7 March 2021 13: 04
    -3
    As for me, the next generation of production of any will be robotized,
    And then the US, the EU and the like will not give a damn if there is cheap labor in China or somewhere else,
    The robot will be cheaper!
    And for China, 80 percent is income from exports, of which 55 percent is trade with capitalist countries,
    1. Israel
      Israel 7 March 2021 18: 45
      0
      This is not a very close prospect, a "natural" Chinese / Vietnamese, etc., is cheaper than a robot.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 13: 16
    +1
    Quote: Stranger
    As for me, the next generation of production of any will be robotized,
    And then the US, the EU and the like will not give a damn if there is cheap labor in China or somewhere else,
    The robot will be cheaper!
    And for China, 80 percent is income from exports, of which 55 percent is trade with capitalist countries,

    Have you read a science fiction robotics? laughing
    1. Your stranger
      Your stranger 7 March 2021 14: 25
      -2
      https://ds-robotics.ru/articles/proizvoditeli-promyshlennyh-robotov
  • AB
    AB 7 March 2021 13: 16
    0
    China is the main supplier of rare earth metals to the United States. I wonder how the United States will produce chips if China stops supplying them.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 7 March 2021 14: 11
      +3
      A.V - they will be silent, because the Yankees have enough of this stuff! Simply, mining will be a third more expensive, ready-made processors will imitate 40-50 percent, and then the Yankees will simply overwhelm the world with cheap processes, according to modern technological processes of 2-4 nm, and the Chinese will begin to crush massively. In Taiwan, the world's largest processor company can easily shut down the entire Chinese processor market, expand production and lower prices. That's when the Celestial Empire will find out how much a pound is dashing. This verbal balancing act will end with a rollback - the Yankees will conditionally impose sanctions, the Chinese will also supply them with raw materials. Otherwise, what to do with it, an oversupply in the market leads to an inevitable loss in price. ..
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 04
    -1
    Fighters like the F-35, Lockheed Martin's aircraft, rely heavily on rare earths for critical components such as electrical systems and magnets. A Congressional Research Service report said that each F-35 requires 417 kg of rare earth materials. laughing
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 07
    -1
    The creation of solid-state combat lasers in a large number, like fiber-optic communication lines, is impossible without REM. More precisely, it is possible, but this is an operation with an accuracy of fractions of an atom 3D induced nanolithography. REM doping will be cheaper because This technology was conceived for optical circuits and lasers with special properties. It requires a highly coherent laser with a very soft X-ray but harder than EUV by about a few keV.

    And so, what is the reason for the Chinese not to sell REM only in FINISHED products? There, the added value immediately grows.

    Where do they go from Chinese products? China has the opportunity to control IPG, the creation of combat lasers in NATO and fiber-optic communication lines around the world by 80 percent instead of the current 30-40. In general, the hunt for the F-35 great trophyers, maybe they will be electronic warfare or even how to shoot them down so that the whole carcass leaves without destruction - less to collect around the neighborhood.laughing One F 35 is 2 wagons of silver.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 12
    0
    REM are heat-resistant high-strength aluminum alloys with the same scandium.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 13
    +1
    The F-35 weighs 13 tons and costs 100 greens. Rounding up for simplicity. We get roughly 7.7 thousand dollars per kg. About $ 248 an ounce, 10 times more expensive than silver, and 7 times cheaper than gold. laughing
  • 1536
    1536 7 March 2021 14: 14
    0
    Everything that happens around China and US-China relations is very similar to a play in three acts with intermissions and an epilogue. Can we assume that we have watched one third of the play? Probably. But what will happen in the second and, most importantly, in the third part, and what the epilogue will be, hardly anyone today can say for sure.
    In the meantime, it can be assumed that the United States is "imposing" sanctions against the production of printed circuit boards in China so that the Chinese do not sell them to Russia: they say, they themselves are not enough, look how the staff members are pressing. Why does this conclusion suggest itself? Because hardly anyone can suppose and think that the "plant management" deprives its main production shop of orders and development. Here you can also lose profit, which is simply unacceptable for the companies-owners of the United States and China. But for Russia, even such an amateur performance will do, because we take everything at face value either out of naivety, or because of a lack of education and intelligence, or because of our natural peculiarity, not to believe in our own strength until a roasted rooster bites into one place. Therefore, all these congresses of the CPC Central Committee, "caring for the Chinese people", American "elections" without choice and giving America "great again" with "an exceptional people" in the leading role, only the necessary surroundings, decoration for the seizure of the world. It is precisely the capture, not the division of it, as it was in the 1th century. The forces of the United States alone, of course, will not be enough for this, but by uniting with the Chinese, it is quite possible to do this. Only 6/XNUMX of the sushi should, according to the "directors", turn into tasty sushi for those who will be able to deceive, twist and win in this struggle the people that occupy this part of the sushi today. Naturally, both the Chinese and the Americans will hit the jackpot, and from this point of view, concern for the peoples of these countries is evident, but they do not need the rest. But that will be in the epilogue.
    This is just an assumption not based on an analysis of a large amount of information, but only on intuition, and it would be good to be mistaken that such a scenario is really playing out before our eyes.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 17
    0
    Quote: evgen1221
    It seems that the Chinese will disassemble a couple of lines into cogs and in a year they will copy one to one. And they will continue to do mikruhi, but this time exclusively for the domestic and markets of loyal allies, while closing the market in general to all third-party microcircuits. As a result, the Azat-Eurasian separate economic independent cluster is formed, and it is completely self-sufficient.

    The main thing is to make a machine, and the software can be written in 10 years.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 20
    -1
    Quote: Thrifty
    A.V - they will be silent, because the Yankees have enough of this stuff! Simply, mining will be a third more expensive, ready-made processors will imitate 40-50 percent, and then the Yankees will simply overwhelm the world with cheap processes, according to modern technological processes of 2-4 nm, and the Chinese will begin to crush massively. In Taiwan, the world's largest processor company can easily shut down the entire Chinese processor market, expand production and lower prices. That's when the Celestial Empire will find out how much a pound is dashing. This verbal balancing act will end with a rollback - the Yankees will conditionally impose sanctions, the Chinese will also supply them with raw materials. Otherwise, what to do with it, an oversupply in the market leads to an inevitable loss in price. ..

    But it's not that. The fact is that China can threaten export bans only as long as its threat is not perceived as real. After that, other countries will begin to consider that the extraction of rare earths is not a question of price, but a question of their own economic security.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 22
    0
    It’s strange. In 2005, there was a fuss in the WTO about the restrictions on the export of these materials, imposed by China. In 2012, there was a trial at the WTO.

    The story is so long ago. What did they remember about her again? laughing
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 24
    0
    There is also a technological moment - China has been developing technologies for the extraction of rare earths for decades, and the United States did not have a horse in this regard. The already rather big price tag for a penguin will soar into the stratosphere. laughing
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 27
    0
    Quote: Stranger
    https://ds-robotics.ru/articles/proizvoditeli-promyshlennyh-robotov

    laughing When the resources will be the cat cried, they will build aha laughing
  • Klingon
    Klingon 7 March 2021 14: 28
    0
    right now, take China, and they will block Taiwan from all sides, they did not receive striped chips from there, well, yes ... and the iPhones where riveted in the USA are also probably forgotten. Apple is not such a trifle to be scattered wassat
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 36
    0
    Quote: Thrifty
    A.V - they will be silent, because the Yankees have enough of this stuff! Simply, mining will be a third more expensive, ready-made processors will imitate 40-50 percent, and then the Yankees will simply overwhelm the world with cheap processes, according to modern technological processes of 2-4 nm, and the Chinese will begin to crush massively. In Taiwan, the world's largest processor company can easily shut down the entire Chinese processor market, expand production and lower prices. That's when the Celestial Empire will find out how much a pound is dashing. This verbal balancing act will end with a rollback - the Yankees will conditionally impose sanctions, the Chinese will also supply them with raw materials. Otherwise, what to do with it, an oversupply in the market leads to an inevitable loss in price. ..

    And from whom does Taiwan buy rare earths? laughing
  • bar
    bar 7 March 2021 14: 38
    -1
    The threat of depriving the United States of rare earth metals will lead to the collapse of the aircraft industry

    The main thing is that Russia does not deprive the beloved USA of its titanium, and it needs much more for aviation than rare earths. sad
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 42
    0
    Within the framework of the National Medium-Term Science and Technology Development Plan, the Chinese authorities approved 16 megaprojects in the field of applied and basic research. These include the creation of centers for the development of nanotechnology, protein research, the construction of colliders, quantum communication lines, infrastructure for space flights and astronomical observatories, as well as a number of other capital-intensive projects. Chinese President Xi Jinping stressed the need to advance technology and scientific research to a "deeper and broader level." Scientists were invited to discuss the tasks of China's scientific and technological development for the period 2020-2021. Some of the largest scientific projects are already underway, moreover, some of them managed to shake the scientific world, weaned from high-profile startups during the pandemic, in the last days of 2025. Believe us escho in the factory, Well, Britain or Germany, France, for example, could not take anything from the moon - despite the presence of "brains". laughing
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 45
    -1
    Quote: Stranger
    https://ds-robotics.ru/articles/proizvoditeli-promyshlennyh-robotov

    Well, show it at work. Not on paper and in the laboratory, but in practice.

    You teach an insidious AI to work with a stock terminal, it looks for patterns, you become a billionaire, the work of AI is proven. laughing
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 14: 50
    0
    Quote: Stranger
    Until they disassemble, while copying, while adjusting production, progress in the world will jump one step higher,
    And those of their works and costs will be useless to anyone,

    America has a klondike? laughing How they froze the pumps in Texas we've already seen laughing
  • Basarev
    Basarev 7 March 2021 14: 58
    -1
    I would like to believe that the States will succeed. China should not be given more power, it should not be allowed to really serious technology. Because after economic successes, his political ambitions also grow, he drags his digital concentration camp and unlawful state everywhere with him, and for this he must be punished. China must be poor and underdeveloped.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 7 March 2021 15: 00
    0
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    Quote: Cowbra

    +4
    Just China will work on 5G without amerikosov - they have already launched the chip replacement program a long time ago. but in the USA without Huawei - 5G is not and is not expected. And in China there has long been

    China to fight with the United States? China is hiding amerovskih candy wrappers for the most "I can not" ... If the US suddenly disappears somewhere, who will fill the disappeared market? My American acquaintances claim that there are a lot of Chinese goods in stores. And suddenly they disappear ... wassat
    In short, the Americans, as always, did not calculate the rebound from such actions ... And the fact that China can "resist" and establish copies of the necessary chips ... And on all sorts of patents and copyrights ... they always, to put it mildly ... Well, little was considered ...

    I once brought a friend something "made in the usa" so he did not find it. laughing
  • stels_07
    stels_07 7 March 2021 15: 10
    +1
    The panda philosophy says that the main thing is the economic development of China, and will ban the export of pzm to the United States, only as a last resort.
  • tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
    tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 7 March 2021 16: 27
    +2
    They are talking about some small circuits. We would have their problems. Whether it is our case - no and it is not necessary ... True, there were - but the biggest ones!
    1. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 7 March 2021 20: 01
      0
      So this article is about the same, soon China will have "the largest microcircuits."
  • Intruder
    Intruder 7 March 2021 20: 24
    -1
    Clash of the titans, however: microcircuits versus aircraft manufacturing ... winked
  • VOENOBOZ
    VOENOBOZ 7 March 2021 20: 32
    0
    The eagle will not peck out the eyes of the dragon.
  • kytx
    kytx 8 March 2021 13: 56
    0
    I don’t understand the point in the rapid implementation of 5zhi
    I have a whistle iota (huavei) it shows the physical speed on the channel 756Mb / s
    real, of course, much less, but this is a problem on the highways
    756! well, much more? and for what?
    a media stream in high quality, such a channel will pass lightly
    ping has been long since 3ji and has remained
    it is necessary to develop highways
    and 5zhi you get tired of setting base stations every 1000 meters
    nafig he is not needed yet
    all imho
    1. kytx
      kytx 8 March 2021 23: 15
      0
      Well, it's not tricky to screw up a sleeper
      but to explain where I am wrong is already weak
      dass






    2. smart fellow
      smart fellow 9 March 2021 08: 27
      0
      It doesn't make much sense in Russia. And in Japan, South Korea or the United States there is.
      The bandwidth of the traffic does not affect the ping. Ping shows the signal delay and depends on the number of switches (switches) through which it passes.
      1. kytx
        kytx 9 March 2021 08: 38
        0
        I don't need to tell me about ping better than you know
        how does it work
        you clearly missed out on the "highway"
        about the USA and Japan, too
        Japan only recently got off diapemes (but at least they squeezed out of the technology what they can)
        in the States, I also heard enemté in some places
        1. smart fellow
          smart fellow 9 March 2021 08: 42
          0
          You asked for an explanation. I did it.
  • AML
    AML 9 March 2021 09: 16
    -1
    Quote: kytx
    I don’t understand the point in the rapid implementation of 5zhi
    I have a whistle iota (huavei) it shows the physical speed on the channel 756Mb / s
    real, of course, much less, but this is a problem on the highways
    756! well, much more? and for what?

    Well, look at my house from devices using the Internet. 2 computers, TV set and refrigerator.
    With computers it is clear, with a telecom, too. But the refrigerator .... initially it was funny, but then it turned out to be quite convenient. Ie what I mean, soon there will be a wifi in each iron. And also convenient. Instead of throwing like a, did I turn off the iron, went into the application and looked. If something through the Internet and extinguished. Or for example an air conditioner. While driving home, we turned on the air conditioner remotely, and beauty arrived.

    You may notice that how much these devices will gobble up the traffic. Little. Only now there are statistics according to which 80% of network traffic is spam and most likely this figure will only increase.
    Well, imagine that a laptop is just a screen with Wi-Fi. All the computing power in your home is in your bedside table, there are drives. And such a laptop can work for weeks without a gift if it uses 5G noise to recharge the battery

    So yes. Networks are slowing down technology.
    1. kytx
      kytx 9 March 2021 15: 27
      0
      networks already now do not slow down anything.
      they already today can you to deploy the full "Internet of things"
      the problem is in the backbone network about which I am a sinner whining already in the third message in this thread
      and our highways are developing extremely sluggishly
      The USA is in a sense very lucky, they grabbed the dot-com boom
      which then safely fell, but ... the money spent on it suddenly fought back at the expense of media content
      and these terrible dogs pumped the highways
      this was not the case in the CE. They are still sitting on idiosal. Last year I was invited to Germany to pull fitibi into private houses. this is a "renovation" at the level of government money is allocated. only the press is quiet.

      all this means that it is necessary to sculpt the highway (and of course the corresponding sharp equipment) on the nodes
      and what kind of iron is there to equip with - this is the problem of the end node
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 9 March 2021 11: 18
    0
    We need to hurry up, buy factories and rivet PCs, laptops, smartphones on Elbrus and Baikals. But we'd better hold another unnecessary championship for anyone ...
  • AML
    AML 9 March 2021 18: 14
    0
    Quote: Dzafdet
    We need to hurry up, buy factories and rivet PCs, laptops, smartphones on Elbrus and Baikals. But we'd better hold another unnecessary championship for anyone ...


    figasebe unnecessary. It should have been held only to open their eyes to tourists. And if my memory serves me, the championship paid off. So why is it unnecessary?
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet April 2 2021 09: 26
    0
    Quote: tikhonov66
    "... And Washington's ban on the export of high-performance computer chips threatens to slow the planned development of 5G networks in China
    ..."
    - a very, very strange statement from "mattress covers" ...
    8-))
    - actually TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company)
    It is the BIGGEST semiconductor chip manufacturer IN THE WORLD. \
    - And Taiwan is, by the way, China ...
    8-)))

    So - today TSMC has become a world leader in the segment of the production of semiconductor crystals (chips), occupying almost 52% of the WORLD market. It has overtaken Intel, including in terms of capitalization, and it owes its success to the growth in the value of shares, provoked, among other things, by information - about a "breakthrough" in the development of ultramodern 2 (TWO !!!) - nanometer production rates ... For comparison: 2nm is 150 times less than the wavelength of visible light "violet", and 320 times less than the wavelength of "red" light ... Ie. a transistor of this size - even theoretically - is IMPOSSIBLE to see in ANY optical microscope.
    https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-07-20_intel_bolshe_ne_pervayakrupnejshim

    Further - "IC" is "Integrated Circuit".
    There are two types of companies in the semiconductor IC chip industry (ie "chips"): 1) Companies such as Intel, Samsung, SK Hynix, and Micron. They independently - and develop and produce their microcircuits (microprocessors and memory chips, etc.) - in their own factories. 2) but there are also "semiconductor factories" that do not design but only manufacture chips developed by third-party commercial and military customers - and TSMC in Taiwan is the largest in the world.

    Chips manufactured by TSMC are present in almost everything: smartphones (for example, Apple iPhones), high-performance computing platforms, PCs, tablets, servers, base stations and game consoles, IoT devices, digital consumer electronics, cars and almost all weapons systems. built in the twenty-first century. About 60% of the chips produced by TSMC are made for American companies.

    And a similar attempt to "wean" China away from the manufacture of the latest ICs developed in the United States - it already WAS - ten years ago. And then - the Taiwanese comrades - softly HELPED the United States that they risked ELEMENTALLY NOT RECEIVING the development of their "newest" ICs, since the cost of their production directly depends on the MULTIPLICATION of these ICs (the higher the circulation, the CHEAPER the chip!). And the "production circulation" is China (TSMC) !!!
    - and then the United States - "washed up" ... - recommending only to the Congress - "it is more correct to place its new semiconductor plants" ... But there is such an ambush - that large semiconductor production is VERY and VERY ecologically - "DIRTY" ...

    - but (again) at the end of 2000 -
    About 60% of the chips produced by TSMC are made for AMERICAN companies.

    So how the United States plans to "crank" its sanctions maneuver by "shutting down" its latest semiconductor developments to China is not very clear ...
    8-)))
    - after all, one has only TSMC - to hint slightly - how the US industry will have SERIOUS PROBLEMS with the cost of their production.

    - Moreover, the American "intellectual property" - has never been a "moral obstacle" for China - with outright COPY / RIPE (so-called reverse engineering) - the most "advanced" American ICs - for their subsequent mass production on Chinese semiconductors factories ... And even more so in the conditions of an open sanctions war being waged against China.
    8-))



    How, how ... The Taiwanese will build five factories in the USA. And then the entire production of microcircuits will be transferred to the United States. For these purposes, 35 billion dollars have been allocated. How can we build at least a couple of factories?
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet April 2 2021 09: 28
    0
    Quote: AML
    Quote: Dzafdet
    We need to hurry up, buy factories and rivet PCs, laptops, smartphones on Elbrus and Baikals. But we'd better hold another unnecessary championship for anyone ...


    figasebe unnecessary. It should have been held only to open their eyes to tourists. And if my memory serves me, the championship paid off. So why is it unnecessary?



    Now who maintains the stadiums? And do they pay off? No ! It was all in vain ...