Foreign press: In 2019, the JF-17 of the Pakistani Air Force performed very poorly against the Mirage-2000 and Su-30MKI of the Indian Air Force

The Indian press continues to discuss the events of two years ago, when first the Indian Air Force struck a militant camp in Balakot (on the territory of Pakistan), and then the Pakistani Air Force planes carried out an operation in Indian airspace. Moreover, the more time has passed since those events, the more victorious the publications of Indian authors look.

This time it was announced that the aircraft of the Sino-Pakistani development of the JF-17 during the air battle "showed their unreliability."

It is noteworthy that Indian authors in this regard were inspired by the publication of the publication Pentapostagma, which works in the Greek segment of the Internet.

From the material of the foreign press:

On February 27, 2019, during the operation, the JF-17 fighter of the Pakistani Air Force performed very poorly against the Mirage-2000 and Su-30MKI of the Indian Air Force. The Link-17 data link turned out to be extremely unreliable. The fighter does not have effective airborne radar. It is also characterized by low carrying capacity and low accuracy of use. weapons.

It is alleged that none of the missiles used by the JF-17 fighters reached their target.

From the article:

The JF-17 radar exhibits erratic performance, resulting in limited options for the pilot.

It was noted that "in addition to some Chinese missiles, the Pakistani Air Force fighter-bomber carries the usual MiG-21 combat load."

Following the "unsuccessful operation," Pakistan allegedly decided to consider purchasing its J-10 aircraft from China.

Comments

[hydrox]

Colleagues
Well, judge for yourself: is it possible to expect good beautiful work from an ugly plane ?!
And here you can immediately see that the provincial artisans riveted and brazed!
Maybe even the weapons were bought in the same market as the dviguns, and the fuselage was stolen from the American storage base.

[Quadro]

The movers are ours there. And it was made on the basis of the Mig-21, just the air intakes on board.

[hydrox]

Then even if they do not know how to modernize, then let them not whine, but use their own d (oh!) Vm themselves!

[dauria]

Then even if they do not know how to modernize, then let them not whine, but use their own d (oh!) Vm themselves!

This battle ended with the loss of the Indians from this particular aircraft. F-16s also participated in the dump. As a result of air combat, the MiG-21-93 was shot down by a Pakistani JF-17 fighter. Captured Indian military pilot Abhinandan Varthaman was handed over by Pakistan to Indian officials on March 1, 2019.
So much for the "shit". The Chinese have competently altered the nose, making room for the radar, made a wing with influxes of the F-16 type. It turned out pretty well and cheap.

[hydrox]

This is your private opinion and you are not responsible for it.
The author gives us his opinion, but since it is published in the media, the author is responsible for it. But for some reason you argue with my PRIVATE opinion, but do not want to argue with the author.
Why don't you want to?

[dauria]

but don't want to argue with the author.
Why don't you want to?

Hm strange. Okay, I will not touch your comments. And to argue with the author - so he is not, there is no signature, there is a vague "Indian authors".
I always considered it an advantage of VO that the article was just a topic for conversation. Sometimes the article itself is empty (like this one), but the "comments" contain more information, opinions, and some subtleties that I did not know about.

[hydrox]

Quote: dauria

Sometimes the article itself is empty (like this one), but the "comments" contain more information, opinions, and some subtleties that I did not know about.

But in this I completely agree with you!

[bayard]

So it is not Pakistan that "whines", it is India that has been rejoicing for two years.
Although the Pakistanis shot down the Indian MiG-21, and did not recognize their downed (?) F-16 - they say that everything is in place.
In addition, Azerbaijan is buying from Pakistan its "unsuccessful" JF-17 right now for its Air Force. Although, just before the war, they looked closely at our MiG-35s.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: hydrox

how can you expect good beautiful work from an ugly airplane ?!
And here you can immediately see that the provincial artisans riveted and brazed!

What's not beautiful about him? The plane is like an airplane.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Bad_gr

What's not beautiful about him? The plane is like an airplane.

It also seems to me that it is quite an elegant product!
He would have shtatovskie avionics and airborne radar, not hunfuz, then we could be good and go! (And the stupid - would have stayed!)
But the fact that the F-16 in that battle crashed our old MiGar - that is, the assessment of Soviet military equipment! And the packs are hiding it for two reasons: the AMs forbade them to use the sold F-16s against the Indians, and, secondly, the prestige of AM technology is undermined ...
Somehow, however.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

It also seems to me that it is quite an elegant product!

Samples are not very elegant in my opinion:

[venik]

Quote: Bad_gr

What's not beautiful about him? The plane is like an airplane.

========
In this perspective - YES! It seems that nothing looks like this:

Something like and "not very" .... Some kind of unprepossessing!

[No name B]

As the saying goes: The taste and color of the markers are different.

[venik]

Quote: hydrox

Colleagues
Well, judge for yourself: is it possible to expect good beautiful work from an ugly plane ?!

=========
There is such a legend in aviation circles (I cannot vouch for the reliability): in the 30s of the last century, one "aircraft designer" (like a fox terrier: there is little mind, but more than enough energy!) Tried to push through his project of a miracle plane ... "foodball-foodball" by authorities, until they "kicked off" to A.N. Tupolev .... When the would-be inventor unfolded a general drawing in front of Andrey Nikolayevich, Tupolev just glanced at him and immediately averted his eyes: "It will NOT fly!"
"Why won't it fly?"the" inventor "got angry:"Here are all the calculations! He can't help but fly!"... ANT answered irritably:"To hell with the calculations! He will NOT fly, because he is NICE!"
PS "Woe Inventor" turned out to be extremely persistent: he almost got to the Politburo, but he still begged for money and the decision to build a prototype! The plane never took off .......

[hydrox]

How I agree with Tupolev!
We would work together (only me from another sphere) ...

[Coconut]

30 ka our everything ..)

[Bilal]

By the way, the JF-17 THUNDER block III is already being tested with might and main, in which all the shortcomings have been eliminated. And the JF-17, it is quite worthy to fight not only with the MiG-29, with the Su 30 MKI, with the Mirage, with Tejas and even with the F-16. It has a Chinese-made AFAR. And in the version for the Azerbaijani Air Force, it is planned to install radar antennas manufactured by the Italian LEONARDO. Electronics, control systems will also be of Italian and Turkish (ASELSAN) origin. And the missiles can be both Chinese, Russian and Pakistani, and Italian and Turkish. The bombs will also be both Russian and the latest Turkish COM, and the speed in the block III version will reach 2 MAX. And thanks to the structure of the MiG-21 (on which the JF-17 is based) THUNDER turned out to be maneuverable ...

[Quadro]

If moment-21 were so wonderful, we would still modernize it, and these tales about "on equal terms with f16, twilight and moment30" are from the evil one. This instant-29 is more maneuverable than our dryers? In general, all this is out of despair, roughly like the first attempts of the Chinese in their aviation in the 21s, where the "stools" were rearranged for the hundredth time in the Soviet base of the 90s.

[mark1]

It's all about the cost / efficiency criterion. Now, if someone in this section compared, then of course it would be very interesting. And so ... -who shouts louder that and well done.

[hydrox]

It's so clear who compares the MiG with Sushka, and these shots are not shouting out of patriotic reasons at all, but they would have been arranged by the MiG-21 in service with the Aerospace Forces.
But why do they need it - think for yourself (however, nostalgia (yes, not as a romantic state of mind, but as a diagnosis ...))

[Bilal]

Quadro

If moment-21 were so wonderful, we would still modernize it, and these tales about "on equal terms with f16, twilight and moment30" are from the evil one. This instant-29 is more maneuverable than our dryers? In general, all this is out of despair, roughly like the first attempts of the Chinese in their aviation in the 21s, where the "stools" were rearranged for the hundredth time in the Soviet base of the 90s.

Then please explain the efforts of Russia about the Su-57, if it has the Su-35 (which actively advertises and tries to sell to everyone who is interested in the Su-57).
Technology does not stand still. VAZ 2101 was FIAT. Up to VAZ 2107. Many countries have gone through this - licensed assembly, modernization, etc.

[Quadro]

What does su57 have to do with it? Have you all forgotten how to read? I will repeat once again for clarity - if the moment-21 were so cool, I would still have flown them, however, given that it is not ideal, we switched to further models and eventually came to the su-57, and did not sit for a moment-21 ... And about the efforts - the su-57 has no 900 shortcomings and it passed the state, in contrast to the f35, which they stamped a bunch without effort. However, it was more about "confrontation between f16 and moment-29", to which he is not a rival, except perhaps the oldest.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

> su-57 has no 900 drawbacks
Does someone tell you?

> and he passed the state
First serial especially fortunate passed them, what to say.

[Bilal]

Quadro Today, 11:57

What does su57 have to do with it? Have you all forgotten how to read? I will repeat again for clarity - if the moment-21 were so cool, they would still fly on them.

Dear, I could offend you, too, about reading and even seeing. But I will refrain. Take a closer look at the pictures in the article. Everything is modernized. Even the engines are not the same. The weapons are also not the same.

[Quadro]

Quote: Bilal

Quadro Today, 11:57

What does su57 have to do with it? Have you all forgotten how to read? I will repeat again for clarity - if the moment-21 were so cool, they would still fly on them.

Dear, I could offend you, too, about reading and even seeing. But I will refrain. Take a closer look at the pictures in the article. Everything is modernized. Even the engines are not the same. The weapons are also not the same.

I did not offend you, it just annoys me when I write one thing and clearly, but for some reason they think and read differently.

[EvilLion]

And the F-16, especially the Pakistani one, is some kind of miracle of technology, what "even with the F-16"? If, of course, you stick in the most modern avionics, then, probably, you can compete with the Soviet MiG-29, or the Su-30MKI from 1999, but the latter is already doubtful

[Holuay T.O]

everything depends on avionics

[hydrox]

The F-35 is stuffed with avionics-electronics, but if the aerodynamics are crappy, then they were afraid to lift the plane into the Syrian sky when the Su-35 was in charge, so that when comparing "next to" specialists would not make the appropriate organizational conclusions.
And this is just one small episode of dozens of similar situations, which is why the F-35 was discontinued for a month now.
So after all, they still keep quiet about how many cars fell into a "dead dive" because of electronics-avionics ...
By the way, the F-35 is also a very ugly car ...

[Nick rex]

.. hosted .. lol
never "hosted". why did you get this nonsense? bombed with impunity, yes.

[EvilLion]

F-35 according to flight characteristics corresponds to the "superhornet". Quite a decent plane.

[hydrox]

Please compare, AT LEAST with the Su-35, although in an air battle even with this middle-aged aircraft, your lightning is a piece of scrap metal: it will not even be able to get out of the air battle in terms of speed, and it will definitely be destroyed in terms of maneuverability, although the Su-35 maneuvers even from aircraft missiles.

[EvilLion]

Once again, look at the performance characteristics of the F-35 and the "superhornet", they are about the same, only the F-35 implements the same thrust with a single-engine power plant of less mass. The Hornet was created for the very specific requirements of a multipurpose carrier-based aircraft (but it also successfully entered a number of ground air forces). The interceptor from it is so-so, of course, due to the low max. speed, but from the point of view of the exit from the battle, which usually starts at 0.9M, this is not the biggest problem, since the pursuit of the enemy leaving afterburner is not particularly promising and fraught with the development of its own fuel, since it is then he flies to his base, he does not care, and the pursuer moves away from his base.

[hydrox]

In comparison, only the "old man" Su - 35 is interesting - the most massive aircraft that will be produced for interception (and an air battle with the F-35) - at a non-afterburner speed of 0,9M, and at an afterburner of 2,25M your aircraft has NO chances to leave the battle if the enemy does not make gross and unacceptable mistakes in the conduct of the battle.
I do not specifically mention the MiG-31 and Su-57, which will shoot the F-35 without even entering the zone of destruction of his weapon, and he will not even be able to evade the rocket by maneuvering (I’m silent about speed) ..

[EvilLion]

The MiG-31 has an outdated radar, which you should upgrade at least how much, and you don't really need to, since the aircraft is no longer in production, and the Su-57 will completely replace it.

Once again, the maximum speed, as such, is not a critical factor for exiting the battle, since you will have to exit at much lower speeds. 1800-1900 km / h is a fairly typical max. speed for strike vehicles, which, when fighters appear, generally have one tactic - to give a fight. The Su-17 in the latest modification of the M4 generally lost its maximum speed of 400-500 km / h due to the introduction of an unregulated air intake, but, obviously, this did not bother anyone.

[hydrox]

It's like setting a task: to conclude a beautiful contract - and in 3 months a new radar station will be tested with a combat range of 450-550 km (if it is ALREADY not licked out for surrender to modernize old and not very airplanes) - the time has come.
Po-2s flew at speeds "much lower", now they do not fly - the radar power is not enough. This means that they will shoot your slow-moving vehicles with 37M and 72M missiles, without approaching the "dog fight" distance.

[EvilLion]

Even medium-range missiles do not show very high hit rates.

They are still sawing from the radar on the MiG-35. In such conditions, the maximum concentration on Н036 seems to be much more reliable.

[hydrox]

To put it mildly, I STRONGLY doubt the reliability of your hit rate data - otherwise it would not make sense to produce these systems if their efficiency was less than 90-95%.
Everything else is not at all intended for our ears YET.

[EvilLion]

These systems produced even when they had a good chance of hitting a non-maneuvering target at 50%.

[hydrox]

One must think that you were responsible for the production of such products, but then you must be about 100 years old ...

[Lara Croft]

In 2019, the JF-17 of the Pakistani Air Force performed very poorly against the Mirage-2000 and Su-30MKI of the Indian Air Force

It's a strange article, comparing an aircraft based on a 3rd generation aircraft with 4th generation aircraft ...

Indeed, the The JF-17 was born in China as the successor to the J-7 (F-7) aircraft produced here for many years - clones of the legendary Soviet MiG-21. However, time will tell whether the novelty will be able to gain such popularity in the world as the famous domestic fighter had. So far, JF-17 is purchased only by the Pakistani Air Force, and nothing is even known about the intentions to receive it by the People's Liberation Army of China. Nevertheless, interest in the aircraft is already being shown in a number of countries that have traditionally acquired Chinese fighters and whose capabilities do not allow them to have more expensive Western-made aircraft.

Experienced, pre-production and first production JF-17 fighters flying today are equipped with systems developed and manufactured in China (with the participation of Pakistan). The only exception is the power plant: the engines for them are supplied from Russia., which has more than once been the cause of serious concern on the part of another major partner of our country in military-technical cooperation and at the same time a "sworn friend"

https://topwar.ru/4238-jf-17-kitaysko-pakistanskiy-mig-21-novogo-veka.html

[ultra]

The Hindus remind me of the Holovs, who now have all the boilers turned into peremogs.

[From Tomsk]

Chinese bullshit in all its glory, but cheap.

[Quadro]

That's just to buy amerskoe bullshit, you have to pay megatons of bucks, pull down your pants and stand in one pose in front of the United States, and your brains will soar. And the Chinese will dump a bunch of equipment without questions on a preferential loan, build a port with a railroad, poke 5g and modernize it all if something happens.

[onstar9]

Quote: Quadro

That's just to buy amerskoe bullshit, you have to pay megatons of bucks, pull down your pants and stand in one pose in front of the United States, and your brains will soar. And the Chinese will dump a bunch of equipment without questions on a preferential loan, build a port with a railroad, poke 5g and modernize it all if something happens.

That's all right. That's just why you shouldn't mess with them. Their responsibility is "conditional". They will give everything and promise everything ... in the best possible way. Just buy it ... Then you will go ... with another "Chinese down jacket" ... The Africans agreed to this, now they are giving up their ports and their independence at the expense of repaying debts ... for "down jackets" ... Forward China! Soon the whole world will take over.

[TermNachTer]

Somewhere in the net I read that in addition to everything, up to 40% of Pak - Chinese miracle - airplanes do not fly. Unfortunately, the reasons for such an outrageous sabotage are not indicated)))

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

What, according to the RF Ministry of Defense, is the percentage of readiness in the RF Air Force, can you tell me?

[TermNachTer]

I don’t know, but I think it’s not 40%. Because it is called - the loss of combat effectiveness.

[Evgeny Goncharov (smoogg)]

That is, you don't know, and, I suspect, you don't want to know, but are you laughing at stupid Chinese?
And you don't laugh at the RF Ministry of Defense, which does not report anything about combat readiness. Patriotic.

PS On the first page of Google, the only material reporting the percentage of serviceable flyers in the Air Force - commercial - for 2013. There, combat readiness is 49%.
But

Unfortunately, the reasons for such an outrageous sabotage are not indicated)))

[TermNachTer]

Actually, I laugh at stupid packs. Secondly, I live in Ukraine, about which patriotism are you talking about?))))

[Avior]

The mustachioed Indian, it seems, was shot down by JF-17?
It is not surprising that in India they are unhappy with him ...

[Soveticos]

In the light of recent events, Greek propaganda will be on the side of the Hindus, and the Hindus will always refer to such sources in unsubstantiated screams about their "coolness".

[hydro]

Pathetic copy of F-16, single-engine aircraft is something)

[TermNachTer]

By itself, a single-engine aircraft isn't that bad. Examples are endless. F - 16, MiG - 21, - 23. For each job - its own tool. Bad Chinese designer "crazy hands". They "pulled" the stolen parts and ideas, each separately, it seems not bad, together - "maєmo te, scho maєmo"))))

[agoran]

Not a bad s-t in its price range.
They refused from the Chinese engines, they put either from the Russian Federation or others.
On some radars with AFAR, the possibility of refueling in the air.
7 suspension beams.
Quite a working machine.
It is clear that not the brilliance of modern engineering, but will come down for Asia.

[Bilal]

Although in English, but I think the essence is clear ...