Military Review

"Soviets without communists" led Russia to a new catastrophe

190
"Soviets without communists" led Russia to a new catastrophe
The Red Army attacks the Kronstadt fortress on the ice of the Gulf of Finland. March 1921


Sailor republic


After the February Revolution of 1917, the base of the Baltic fleet became a kind of autonomous republic. Anarchists dominated the ships of the Baltic Fleet and the Kronstadt fortress. There were mass killings of officers. The interim government did not take any investigations or measures against the murderers. More dear to yourself.

In Kronstadt, as in Petrograd, a dual power was formed. On the one hand, there is the Kronstadt Council, on the other, the sailors' meetings at Anchor Square. A kind of sea Zaporizhzhya Sich.

The Kronstadt council and the sailors' "whip" resolved all issues in Kronstadt: from law and order to an 8-hour working day at local enterprises.

By March 1921, there were more than 18 thousand soldiers in the Kronstadt fortress and the surrounding forts. The city was home to about 30 thousand civilians.

Two dreadnoughts wintered at the base - "Petropavlovsk" and "Sevastopol", two battleships - "Andrew the First-Called" and "Respublika" (the ships were not operational, the mechanisms were inoperative), the minelayer "Narova", a minesweeper and several auxiliary ships.

The rest of the ships of the red Baltic Fleet were in Petrograd. As a result, the firepower of the fortress was quite high: 140 guns of various calibers (including 41 heavy ones), more than 120 machine guns.

The Red Navy was better supplied than the ground forces. Despite the difficulties with food in the country, the sailors did not suffer from hunger.

In addition, the "free Cossacks" had two good extra jobs.

First, there is year-round fishing. In summer boating and in winter - ice fishing. They used boats for fishing, had two motor boats. Each island fort had a small harbor in which dozens of civilian ships were based. Part of the catch was used by themselves, the other part of the "brother" was used for barter trade with the Finns. Alcohol, tobacco, chocolate, canned food, etc. were brought from Finland.

Secondly, it is smuggling. Theft and sale of state property. The maritime border with Finland was practically not guarded. And the base of the Russian fleet had a lot of valuable goods that could be stolen and sold.

In addition, in Kronstadt 1918-1921. you didn't even need to steal. Several forts, including the powerful Milyutin island fort, were simply abandoned. And they had no guards.

Dozens of military and civilian ships were thrown off Kotlin Island and island fortifications. You could just drive up by boat or boat and take whatever you want. From weapons to furniture.

The smuggling channel was so profitable that the Finns themselves organized a transit corridor through Kronstadt to Petrograd.

From the Finnish coast in the summer on boats and small ships, and in the winter on sleds, the smugglers passed by the fortifications of the Kronstadt fortress and went to the Fox Nose, where the Petrograd traders were waiting for them. Obviously, the garrisons of the forts had a share from this channel.


Sailors from the battleship "Petropavlovsk" in 1917

Trotskyists


In the summer of 1920, the head of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic, Leon Trotsky, decided to put the Baltic Fleet under his control.

In July 1920, a specialist, former Rear Admiral Alexander Zelenoy, was removed from command of the fleet. He participated in the rescue of the fleet in 1918 (Ice cruise of the Baltic Fleet), conducted operations against British and Estonian naval forces.

Instead, Trotsky's protégé, the commander of the Volga-Caspian Flotilla, Fyodor Raskolnikov, was summoned from the Caspian. True, the new fleet commander periodically fell into binges and suffered from mental illness.

He, like his patron, loved luxury and made full use of the old-regime benefits. So, from Astrakhan to Petrograd, he went not in a simple echelon (as, for example, during the Civil War did Stalin and Voroshilov), but on a staff ship - the former Tsarist yacht "Mezhen", and then in a special car.

Together with Raskolnikov, his chief of staff, Vladimir Kukel, and another celebrity of the Time of Troubles, the wife of the fleet commander Larisa Reisner, rode. Journalist, poet, revolutionary, former passion of Gumilyov and commissar of the headquarters of the fleet.

In Kronstadt, Kukel again became chief of staff, and Reisner began to lead the political department of the fleet. Larisa's father, professor of law, author of the “Decree on the Separation of Church from State,” Mikhail Reisner, also appears in the political department. The head of the rear of the Baltic Fleet was Sergei Kukel, brother of the chief of staff. In general, sheer nepotism.

Raskolnikov and other Trotskyists are trying to draw the sailors into

"A discussion about trade unions."

In January 1921, a conference of the Bolsheviks of the Baltic Fleet was held in Kronstadt.

It was attended by 3500 people. Of these, only 50 people voted for Trotsky's platform. Raskolnikov was not even elected to the presidium.

The offended fleet commander leaves with his wife for Sochi.

At the same time, the fleet commander made a major mistake (or sabotage?).

He transferred two dreadnoughts from Petrograd to Kronstadt for the winter. Formally, they wanted to punish the sailors for poor discipline. In the former capital, wintering was much more fun than in Kronstadt.

This caused great irritation among the sailors of the battleships. They became the first troublemakers. It is possible that without this translation, in general, there would be no rebellion.

Also in January 1921, Nikolai Kuzmin was appointed commissar in Kronstadt.

According to his contemporaries, it was a "master". The sailors immediately disliked him.

He actually slept through the beginning of the rebellion.

On March 1, he tried to calm the crowd. But his threats only inflamed the sailors.

"Barin" was arrested. And he was imprisoned until the end of the rebellion.

"Soviets without communists?"


The leader of the Kronstadt uprising was Stepan Petrichenko.

He was born into a peasant family, was a worker, in 1913 he was drafted into the Navy.

In November 1917, he was elected chairman of the Council of People's Commissars on Nargen Island (part of the fortress of Peter the Great), which was proclaimed an independent Soviet republic.

However, the brothers did not want to fight the Germans for "independence". And in February 1918 they were evacuated to Helsingfors, and from there to Kronstadt.

In the spring of 1918, Petrichenko switched to the battleship "Petropavlovsk". It was he and several other sailors from the dreadnought who brewed the whole booze.

On February 28, 1921, a draft resolution was drawn up on the battleship, which was adopted on March 1 at a rally on Anchor Square. The resolution contained demands for re-election of the Soviets, freedom of activity for socialist parties, the abolition of the institution of commissars and political departments, the abolition of surplus appropriation, etc.

On the same day, the Provisional Revolutionary Committee of sailors, soldiers and workers of Kronstadt was formed on board the battleship. A third of its members served on the battleship.

Chairman of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee Mikhail Kalinin tried to calm down the protesters. He was not afraid to speak in front of a raging crowd. But they did not listen to him. And they invited him to return to his wife.

Before leaving, Kalinin ordered to concentrate reliable people in the most important points. And he promised an ambulance.

The party committee of Kronstadt did not have reliable units to arrest the instigators and suppress the rebellion in the bud.

In parallel, a second control center appeared.

On March 2, the commander of the fortress artillery, Major General Alexander Kozlovsky, gathered about 200 of his supporters in the artillery headquarters.

On March 3, Petrichenko convened a military council at Petropavlovsk. It included Kozlovsky, former officers Solovyanov, Arkannikov, Buser and other military experts. The fortress and forts were divided into four sections.

The main slogan of the rebels was the cry

"Soviets without communists!"

On March 8, 1921, at the X Congress of the RCP (b), Vladimir Lenin spoke about the events in Kronstadt:

“Let's remember the democratic committee in Samara.

All of them came with the slogans of equality, freedom, constituent members, and they, not once, but many times turned out to be a simple step, a bridge for the transition to White Guard power.

The experience of all of Europe shows in practice how an attempt to sit between two chairs ends. "

The leader of the Russian communists very accurately indicated the essence and future of the Kronstadt and other similar uprisings, many of which were already in the past.

What would have happened if a significant part of Russia had adopted this slogan?

The newly created state apparatus would immediately collapse. And the Red Army would too. Civil war would break out with renewed vigor. In place of the suppressed nationalists, White Guards, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Greens and bandits, similar forces would appear. The intervention would start again.

When the ice melted in the spring of 1921, the British fleet would arrive in Kronstadt. Behind him were the White Guards and White Finns, who claimed Karelia and the Kola Peninsula. In the Crimea or Odessa, the French fleet would have landed 50 thousand Wrangel's bayonets.

The White Guard army would have united with thousands of "greens" who were still walking in the south. In the West, the army of Pilsudski, with his plans of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth "from sea to sea", could resume hostilities. Petliurists and whites would follow the Polish masters. In the Far East, Japan could become more active, would support the White Guards in Primorye.

The peasant war would flare up with renewed vigor.

At the same time, Soviet Russia of the 1921 model did not have the resources of 1917. There were no estates and palaces of the nobles and the bourgeoisie, stuffed with good. There were no enterprises that could be nationalized. There were no warehouses full of grain. There were no goods, weapons and ammunition.

The country lay in ruins. The people have lost millions of lives. Russia could simply not withstand the new massacre. And I would go to historical nothingness. Thus, there was no "third way".

It was an illusion that would lead the country and the people to a new and complete disaster.

Only the iron Russian communists then kept Russia from destruction.

However, the Kronstadt sailors did not think about it.

The maximum of their "politics" is blackmail in order to bargain for new benefits. Once they did it - with the Provisional Government.

It is interesting that "tourists" often visited the ice rebels. Among them were representatives of Finnish intelligence, as well as White Guard organizations associated with Britain.

The head of the Socialist-Revolutionaries Chernov declared his readiness to support the uprising, subject to the adoption of the program of his party.

And a large-scale information campaign has begun in the West.

The British press wrote about the shelling of Petrograd by the fleet, the uprising in Moscow and Lenin's flight to the Crimea.

That is, the fears that the Kronstadt revolt could become the first link in a new stage of the Civil War were quite reasonable.

Inglorious end


It is not surprising that the Soviet leadership took the situation in Kronstadt very seriously.

The Labor and Defense Council (STO) declared the participants in the uprising outlawed, introduced a state of siege in Petrograd and the Petrograd province.

To suppress the uprising, the head of the Revolutionary Military Council Trotsky and the commander-in-chief Kamenev arrived in Petrograd. The 7th Army of the Petrograd Military District, headed by Tukhachevsky, was recreated.

Air raids began on 5 March. From the 7th - artillery shelling from the forts "Krasnoflotsky" and "Peredovoy" ("Krasnaya Gorka" and "Gray Horse").

The rebels returned fire on the forts, Oranienbaum and Sestroretsk, where the troops of the 7th Army were concentrated.

On March 8, the Northern group of Kazansky (about 10 thousand soldiers) and the Southern group of Sedyakin (about 3,7 thousand people) went to storm the fortress across the ice of the Gulf of Finland. Due to poor organization, low motivation of the fighters, the attack failed. Part of the Red Army went over to the side of the rebels.

The Soviet command is reinforcing the 7th Army and the forces of the Petrograd District. Delegates of the XNUMXth Party Congress held in Moscow and communists for party mobilization have been sent to the troops.

The Soviet group was reinforced to 45 thousand people (in the 7th Army - up to 24 thousand people), about 160 guns, over 400 machine guns, 3 armored trains.

After a lengthy artillery barrage on the ice of the Gulf of Finland, on March 17, the Red Army broke into Kronstadt. True, the effectiveness of the artillery fire of both the rebels and the Red Army was extremely low. Damage in the city, in forts and on ships was minimal.

The fighting continued for another day.

By 12 noon on March 18, control over the fortress was restored.

On the evening of the 17th, the command staff began to prepare the battleships "Petropavlovsk" and "Sevastopol" for the explosion. However, the remaining sailors (many had fled earlier) arrested the officers and rescued the ships. They announced on the radio the surrender of the ships.

On the morning of the 18th, the dreadnoughts occupied the Red Army.

About 8 thousand people, including members of the Provisional Revolutionary Committee, fled across the ice to Finland.

The "leader" of the rebels, Petrichenko, fled in the first rows, in a car.

The losses of the rebels, according to official figures, amounted to more than 3 thousand people killed and wounded. Another 4 thousand surrendered.

The losses of the Red Army - over 3 thousand people.

By the summer of 1921, over 2,1 rebels had been sentenced to death. To various terms of imprisonment - more than 6,4 thousand.

In 1922, by the 5th anniversary of the October Revolution, a significant part of the rank and file insurgents were amnestied. In two years, half of those who fled to Finland returned under two amnesties.
Author:
Photos used:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/
190 comments
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  1. paco.soto
    paco.soto 3 March 2021 04: 13
    +2
    Neutral opinion: I comment on the first one, I live in another country with a different time zone. I know more about this event only from the opinion in some book by V. Suvorov, read in exile in the early 2000s. Now it will be interesting to read the forum and the opinions of members of the forum ..
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 3 March 2021 04: 27
      +6
      Youth drove us
      On a saber hike,
      Youth threw us
      On the Kronstadt ice.

      War horses
      Carried us away
      On a wide area
      They killed us.

      But in feverish blood
      We climbed,
      But the eyes are blind
      We opened it.

      Create a commonwealth
      A crow with a fighter -
      Strengthen, courage,
      With steel and lead.

      So that the earth is harsh
      Bled out
      To make youth new
      From the bones rose.
      E. Bagritsky
      1. paco.soto
        paco.soto 3 March 2021 04: 39
        +6
        From the bones rose.
        E. Bagritsky ©
        Thank you. Well, this text is "probably stitched in my generation's BIOS."
        ya meant alternative sources of information that he once learned.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 3 March 2021 04: 31
      +5
      Quote: paco.soto
      I know more about this event only from the opinion in some book by V. Suvorov

      In the 90s, the Kordshtans were considered a kind of martyrs who died for freedom.
      1. paco.soto
        paco.soto 3 March 2021 04: 45
        0
        In the 90s, the Kordshtans were considered a kind of martyrs who died for freedom.
        Reply © ©
        Personally, ya learned these alternative opinions already in exile - not earlier than 98
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 3 March 2021 18: 04
          0
          What are you about emigration that you constantly remember. Is it some kind of chase for silk panties?
          1. paco.soto
            paco.soto 4 March 2021 10: 35
            0
            Looking for
            Yesterday, 18: 04

            0
            What are you about emigration that you constantly remember. Is it some kind of chase for silk panties?
            Reply © ©
      2. bober1982
        bober1982 3 March 2021 04: 51
        -5
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        In the 90s, the Krondshtans were considered a kind of martyrs who died for freedom.

        The Kronstadters have always been considered either anarchists or Trotskyists, and in any historical era, they were.
        1. paco.soto
          paco.soto 3 March 2021 05: 13
          .
          The Kronstadters have always been considered either anarchists or Trotskyists, and in any historical era, they were.
          Reply © ©
          It is not possible to understand due to the absence of articles in the Russian language about which Kronstadt people are being discussed in your commentary.
          Personally, I think that the defenders are the defenders of Russia who have retained their honor and loyalty to the oath and the attackers are a rabble of pathetic marginals who later became our leaders and heroes.
          Why such an opinion? It's just that now only personally ya "I continue the genialic tree" of my very ancient "noble family", which was absolutely accidentally preserved after the October coup of 1917.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 3 March 2021 07: 36
            .
            Quote: paco.soto
            I think that the defenders are the defenders of Russia, who have retained their honor and loyalty to the oath, and the attackers are a rabble of pathetic marginals who later became our leaders and heroes.

            It was an internal showdown among the "comrades", a struggle for survival.
            1. paco.soto
              paco.soto 3 March 2021 07: 49
              -3
              It was an internal showdown among the "comrades", a struggle for survival.
              Yes, survival then was dramatically won by very, very few, literally directly, as in the historical series "The Walking Dead"
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 3 March 2021 08: 11
            +8
            Quote: paco.soto
            Personally, I think that the defenders are the defenders of Russia, who have retained their honor and loyalty to the oath, and the attackers are a rabble of pathetic marginals who later became our leaders and heroes.

            TovarisCh, the frend not of mine ....
            You should have re-read the article. It is short, but the conclusions are simple - brothers "sailors" spent the whole war on ships. They were fed according to their allowance. The lice in the trenches were not fed. The Germans did not poison them with gases. They practically did not go to the fronts of the Civil War. In other words, they were satisfied with everything until they began to squeeze them with food - the country was already starving, in the villages the Kostyans were dying of hunger, or were sent to the cities with the aim of at least not freezing. So the "revolutionary sailors" traded with the Finns in ship stores.
            I wish you luck in drawing up a family tree with such "heroes" ...
            lol
            1. paco.soto
              paco.soto 3 March 2021 08: 33
              -4
              You should have re-read the article. It is short, but the conclusions are simple - brothers "sailors" spent the whole war on ships. They were fed according to their allowance. The lice in the trenches were not fed. The Germans did not poison them with gases. They practically did not go to the fronts of the Civil War. In other words, they were satisfied with everything until they began to squeeze them with food - the country was already starving, in the villages the Kostyans were dying of hunger, or were sent to the cities with the aim of at least not freezing. So the "revolutionary sailors" traded with the Finns in ship stores.
              I wish you good luck in drawing up a family tree with such "heroes" ...
              In the voice of Professor Preobrazhensky:
              Thank you for the low-vulgar wish that is unacceptable in the civilized world !!! (I wish you luck in drawing up a family tree with such "heroes)
          3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 10: 29
            +6
            Quote: paco.soto
            Personally, I consider the defenders to be the defenders of Russia, who have retained their honor and loyalty to the oath.

            Just an extravaganza ... Remind me how these "defenders of Russia" staged a massacre in March 1917 in Helsinfors and Kronstadt? So it was rewarded. What kind of Russia, and most importantly - how did they defend, won't you tell? What did this exclave of unbridled sailor care about Russia? And the last faithful to the oath were those whom they shot at the monument to Makarov.
            1. paco.soto
              paco.soto 3 March 2021 11: 41
              -5
              Helsinfors and Kronstadt? So it was paid. What kind of Russia, and most importantly, how did they defend, don’t you tell?
              I will not say: because it is controversial to fight with you personally on this page in the history of Russia.
            2. Avior
              Avior 4 March 2021 09: 06
              +3
              There was a time - they looked differently
              It was then that the conjuncture changed
              And the words were deleted from the song, contrary to the well-known saying. Moreover, they crossed out twice
              So let the Red
              Compresses powerfully
              Your bayonet with a calloused hand
              With a detachment of naval
              Comrade Trotsky
              We will be led to a mortal battle!
          4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 11: 19
            -1
            Quote: paco.soto
            It is not possible to understand due to the absence of articles in the Russian language about which Kronstadt people are being discussed in your commentary.

            I wonder how the articles would help you? Well, let's say
            The Kronstädter wurden immer entweder als Anarchisten oder Trotzkisten betrachtet
            So clearer?
            1. paco.soto
              paco.soto 3 March 2021 11: 48
              -3
              I wonder how the articles would help you? Well, let's say
              Die Kronstädter wurden © ©
              Thank you for your comment. You are not a linguist.
              Laconic: the absence of articles raises for me a multilingualist the vulgar question "who stood on whom ® *
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 12: 03
                +1
                Oh, here's how - would you like the Hamburg account?
                Good thing in the phrase
                Quote: bober1982
                The Kronstadts have always been considered either anarchists or Trotskyists.

                Don't you understand?
                Quote: paco.soto
                "who stood on whom

                Sorry, the statement that you allegedly
                Quote: paco.soto
                multilingual linguist

                (I suppose you should read "multilingual"?) is questionable. The indicated construction is an indefinite personal sentence, this type is characteristic of, say, the German language. You probably didn't mean articleand the pronoun Mon?
                1. paco.soto
                  paco.soto 3 March 2021 14: 04
                  -3
                  Quite right, Comrade Paragraph!
                  I apologize for the delayed response.
                2. paco.soto
                  paco.soto 3 March 2021 14: 28
                  -2
                  Oh, here's how - would you like the Hamburg account?
                  Thank you for your comment. I especially liked the introduction! Best regards to you.
          5. Looking for
            Looking for 3 March 2021 18: 06
            +4
            yes. a blunder with your "kind" happened, a little didn’t shoot.
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 11: 51
          -2
          Quote: bober1982
          The Kronstadts have always been considered either anarchists or Trotskyists.

          Well, that's how they taught us at school!
          In Belinka (library in Yekaterinburg), while writing a term paper, I came across such a photograph!
          participants in the suppression of the Kronstadt rebellion.

          Later I found out that it was retouched, guess from three times who was on the left of the Leader of the world proletariat?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 3 March 2021 12: 05
            +1
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            Later I found out that it was retouched, guess from three times who was on the left of the Leader of the world proletariat?

            You guessed it already, you missed it.
            All enemies of Soviet power were called Trotskyists.
          2. paco.soto
            paco.soto 3 March 2021 14: 14
            -1
            guess three times who was on the left of the Leader
            Here you can find more photos from the territory of the ex-USSR.
            https://www.alamy.es/imagenes/lenin.html?page=2
    3. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 3 March 2021 04: 53
      +14
      V. Suvorov is a former employee
      legal residency of the GRU of the USSR in Geneva. In 1978 he broke his military oath and fled to Great Britain. In the USSR, according to his own words and according to an interview with the former head of the GRU, he was sentenced to death in absentia.
      1. paco.soto
        paco.soto 3 March 2021 11: 54
        0
        The traitor is shorter.
        Thank you for your comment, ya know that.
      2. paco.soto
        paco.soto 3 March 2021 14: 38
        -3
        was sentenced to death in absentia. The traitor is shorter.
        Reply © ©
        Yes - quite rightly and firmly. Only I am very sorry that my Father and his friends did not live up to the date of the possibility of reading the books of this "shorter than a traitor." So it goes.
    4. Bar1
      Bar1 3 March 2021 09: 03
      0
      What would have happened if a significant part of Russia had adopted this slogan?

      The newly created state apparatus would immediately collapse. And the Red Army would too. Civil war would break out with renewed vigor. In place of the suppressed nationalists, White Guards, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Greens and bandits, similar forces would appear. The intervention would start again.

      When the ice melted in the spring of 1921, the British fleet would arrive in Kronstadt. Behind him were the White Guards and White Finns, who claimed Karelia and the Kola Peninsula. In the Crimea or Odessa, the French fleet would have landed 50 thousand Wrangel's bayonets.

      The White Guard army would have united with thousands of "greens" who were still walking in the south. In the West, the army of Pilsudski, with his plans of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth "from sea to sea", could resume hostilities. Petliurists and whites would follow the Polish masters. In the Far East, Japan could become more active, would support the White Guards in Primorye.

      The peasant war would flare up with renewed vigor.


      I counted 10! WOULD be on this section of the article.
      Maybe it WOULD be, or maybe it wouldn't have happened.
      Samsonov does not tell us why the revolutionary sailors were so dissatisfied and calls them "Zaporizhzhya Sich" in a negative sense: they say they must be freemen with them, like Katka and the Cossacks.
      When conclusions are drawn without revealing the true background, this is not history, but Official History, which works with only carefully selected facts, discarding the rest.
      The Bolsheviks were unable to establish a peaceful life during the period of the end of the Civil War Instead of allowing trade and then everything would work out by itself, as later under the NEP, the Bolsheviks prohibited trade and engaged in confiscations with the subsequent distribution of goods and food, and in refusing to give food to the peasants were declared kulaks and rioters and subjected to repressions, therefore both the economy and the country, of course, fell into decay.
      The sailors saw everything perfectly and understood what the Bolsheviks were leading to. The more disaster in the country, the stronger the Bolshevik power on the people's mountain became.
      Therefore, they expressed their DISTRUST to the Bolshevik authorities. In response, they received complete suppression and executions of the right and the wrong.
      1. ivan2022
        ivan2022 8 March 2021 13: 18
        +1
        Quote: Bar1
        The sailors saw everything perfectly and understood what the Bolsheviks were leading to. The more disaster in the country, the stronger the Bolshevik power on the people's mountain became.

        And all the other sailors of the RSFSR and the soldiers of the Red Army, it turns out, did not see it .... and some bastards did not support!
        ONE POWER DIFFERS FROM ANOTHER POWER ONLY BY LEGISLATION. Therefore, I wish you could point out what was wrong with the laws of the RSFSR. Or maybe it's just that you, like those sailors, have the psychology of a half-slave, half-bandit? Laws do not matter to you, it all comes down to "personal trust in the godfather" ... while the master of the belly grub, we are for him, and at the same time, the intervention is uncomfortable ...
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 8 March 2021 18: 52
          0
          Quote: ivan2022
          BOTTOM POWER DIFFERS FROM OTHER POWER ONLY BY LEGISLATION.


          Right is the will of the ruling class exposed to the law.
          Lenin.

          And the will of the ruling class (the Bolsheviks) was this: to ruin all market relations, namely to prohibit markets where peasants and workers could exchange products with each other.
          Why so, why did the Bolsheviks not like free markets? And the fact that the MARKET is power. Whoever owns the market, that owns the power. Free peasants / farmers DO NOT NEED Bolsheviks. Free producers DO NOT NEED any especially pseudo-socialist authorities that hide their true insides under the guise of socialism. Because any power, that the monarchy, that Bolshevism is the power of officials who, interfering with market relations and industrial relations, reduce the efficiency of production of agricultural products and industrial products. What we saw in the USSR. In the USSR-command economy, agricultural production was the MOST ineffective in the world.
          This is the kind of economy that the Bolsheviks built.
          That's how it was.
    5. lucul
      lucul 3 March 2021 09: 04
      -6
      It will be interesting now to read the forum and the opinions of members of the forum.

      Well, what's incomprehensible? In 1917, 85% of the entire top of the Communists in Russia were Jews, and they were identified by the masses.
      Hence the slogan - for Soviets without communists. This is a very inconvenient slogan for our communists, they prefer not to see it, just like the Civil War, they represent it as an enemy intervention, and not as a civil war, because the common people, according to their faith, could not fight against the communists.
      1. tatra
        tatra 3 March 2021 09: 47
        +3
        How long can you repeat the anti-Soviet fakes concocted in the West by British journalists Marsden and Wilton, and Andrei Zankevich (Dikim), who fled to the West after the October Revolution?
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 3 March 2021 09: 54
          -2
          Quote: tatra
          How long can you repeat anti-Soviet fakes


          what fakes?
          1. tatra
            tatra 3 March 2021 09: 57
            +1
            These ones
            In 1917, 85% of the entire top of the communists in Russia were Jews
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 3 March 2021 10: 12
              +3
              Quote: tatra
              These ones
              In 1917, 85% of the entire top of the communists in Russia were Jews


              in fact, that's what Putin says



              I can argue for Lunacharsky. They write that he is of the type Russian, but even a quick glance shows that he is not Russian. And we'll see who it is for his deeds. Lunachansky literally in the first days of the Bolshevik Soviet power carried out a language reform and cut off the Russian alphabet. A Russian person would hardly have done such a thing.
              I can argue for Lenin, this is also not quite Russian.
              1. tatra
                tatra 3 March 2021 10: 24
                +6
                Ha, well, you probably believe in Putin's "galoshes", in "Lenin's bomb", which Putin destroyed the USSR almost 70 years after his death.
                And yes, Lenin is Russian - from his father's side he has the Ulyanovs and Smirnovs, and Lunacharsky is Russian.
                the son of Alexandra Yakovlevna Rostovtseva and Alexander Antonov, who took the name of his stepfather.
                And one of the main qualities of the enemies of the communists is never to admit guilt either for their crimes, or for their lies and slander.
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 11: 37
                  0
                  Quote: tatra
                  And yes, and Russian Lenin - from his father's side, his Ulyanovs and Smirnovyrussky

                  Was Vladimir Ilyich's Mom Russian?
                  Okay, this is not the main thing - the party elite of the Young Soviet Republic was primarily international! So, counting grams of Tatar, Chuvash and other blood in a "specific carcass" is bullshit!
                  1. tatra
                    tatra 3 March 2021 11: 48
                    +3
                    It is not necessary, according to the "tradition" of the enemies of the communists, to tear out only what is beneficial to you. For Russians, nationality is considered by the father. And in spite of yet another lie of the enemies of the communists, Lenin can in no way be called a Jew or Blank. How many lies and slander were heaped by the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people just to justify their capture of the USSR, which only proved that they captured the USSR for criminal purposes. And after as many as 30 years they have lies and slander about the Soviet power, and remained the only justification for the seizure of the USSR. And in discussions about the history of their country and people, they have only stupid, spiteful AGAINST everything Soviet.
                    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 12: 00
                      -4
                      Dear Tatra, the Jews have a mother! What are we going to do with Ilyich?
                      Again, I repeat - this is not important in principle. The main upbringing, and the raging Lenin was brought up in the Russian tradition.
                      I am not for or against the Soviet. I just consider the indiscriminate game of "cliches" - this is the lot of the beggars with reason.
                      Ultimately, the "untruth" will still come true and it will be a "weapon" in the hands of the same Bar1!
                      Do you want it?
                      1. tatra
                        tatra 3 March 2021 12: 10
                        +1
                        And the Russians have the father. And Lenin's father was a Russian nobleman. And yes, Jews consider nationality according to their mother, and Lenin's grandmother was half German, half Swedish Grosshopf, so Lenin’s mother cannot be considered Jewish.
                      2. Bar1
                        Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 34
                        -5
                        Quote: tatra
                        And the Russians have the father. And Lenin's father was Russian


                        fuu, with such a muzzle-rusky? There is no such Russian as a face, rather an interface, like Ilya Nikolayevich does not have.
                      3. Sugar Honeyovich
                        Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 15: 06
                        +2
                        Russians may not exist, but Russians are easy. There are also such:

                        or such
              2. Bar1
                Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 33
                0
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Was Vladimir Ilyich's Mom Russian?

                Blank then? But Russians don't have such names.
                1. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 15: 00
                  +4
                  Quote: Bar1
                  But Russians don't have such names.

                  Is it? "... his name is Werner, but he is Russian. What's so surprising? I knew one Ivanov, who was German" (Lermontov). There are all sorts of names! laughing bully
                  1. Revolver
                    Revolver 3 March 2021 23: 50
                    +3
                    Under the Empire, any Orthodox was considered Russian, although they said "a forgiven thief, and baptized - the price is one." So Werner, who was baptized into Orthodoxy, and even more so his descendant, was Russian, and Ivanov, who converted to Lutheranism, became a German.
              3. Revolver
                Revolver 3 March 2021 20: 06
                +8
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Was Vladimir Ilyich's Mom Russian?

                Yes, of course, under Hitler, she would have been sent to a death camp, of course, half-Jewish. Yes, of course, Lenin, as the grandson of a Jew, would have the right to enter Israel under the law of return (Israeli comrades, please specify, does this law cover the cross?)
                But: according to Israeli laws, Maria Alexandrovna, née Blank, could get married in Israel unless in a church; no rabbi would marry her to a Jew, since her father was baptized, and on her mother she is generally a shiksa. And such people cannot be buried in the Jewish cemetery. And Lenin himself is still that mixture - there are Russians, and Chuvashs, and like Kalmyks somewhere, but formally the father is a Russian nobleman, and the hereditary nobility passed to Lenin.
                So, according to the laws of the Empire, Lenin was considered a Russian Orthodox. From this and proceed.
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 20: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Nagan
                  And Lenin himself is still that mixture - there are Russians, and Chuvashs, and like Kalmyks somewhere, but formally the father is a Russian nobleman, and the hereditary nobility passed to Lenin.
                  So, according to the laws of the Empire, Lenin was considered a Russian Orthodox. From this and proceed.

                  In principle, I proceed from this! For me it makes no difference what nationality V. Ulyanov is. For me, he is my compatriot, period.
                  Another thing is surprising, the games of the members of the forum "communists", in A-la V. Zhirinovsky, who answered a similar question "Mom is Russian, Dad is a lawyer"!
                2. atalef
                  atalef 3 March 2021 20: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: Nagan
                  Lenin, as the grandson of a Jew, would have the right to enter Israel under the law of return (Israeli comrades, please specify, does this law cover the cross?)

                  does not cover.
                  if he declared that his religion, Orthodoxy, with its 3rd degree of kinship, would continue to warm the surroundings of Shushenskoye with his hot body and gaze, and Krupskaya's dreams of the Mediterranean would crash on the iconostasis.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 3 March 2021 11: 54
              -8
              Quote: tatra
              Ha, well, you probably believe in Putin's "galoshes"

              We believe. Because we lived at that time - and we perfectly remember the assortment and quality of Soviet consumer goods, which the GDP spoke about.
              For fans of cropped videos from Youtube, I would like to remind you of the full text of that speech - what exactly was put into the term "galoshes":
              Yes, my dear, yes. No need to discuss. The fact is that what we produced (and we don’t have to wave our hands), nobody needed, because nobody bought our galoshes, except for the Africans, who had to walk on the hot sand. That is the whole point.
              We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.
              From the audience: ... And the first satellite.
              Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.
              But consumer goods ... Zhirinovsky has already said this. Where were they? There were none. Let's not lie to each other and the people. The people know what was and what was not.
              1. tatra
                tatra 3 March 2021 12: 06
                +3
                Here it is
                no need to wave your hands
                Putin's reaction to the indignation of people in the audience at his words. And all the enemies of the communists are the same, including the members of the CPSU, who during Gorbachev's Perestroika, when they ceased to be profitable for the communists, instantly "saw the light" and began to say the exact opposite of what they said before Perestroika. In this speech of Putin, the whole ideology of the enemies of the communists, who seriously imagined that they deserve to own the country, and to slander those from whom they took the country, and cowardly to blame those on those for what you and your Yeltsin-Putin government have done with Russia and the Russian people.
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 3 March 2021 16: 28
                  -5
                  Quote: tatra
                  In this speech of Putin, the whole ideology of the enemies of the communists, who seriously imagined that they deserve to own the country, and to slander those from whom they took the country, and cowardly to blame the three on the responsibility for what you and your Yeltsin-Putin government have done with Russia and the Russian people.

                  That is, this is also slander?
                  We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.
                  From the audience: ... And the first satellite.
                  Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.

                  And as for consumer goods ... you know, it is very difficult to paint the delights of Soviet goods for those who lived in the USSR. Especially for those who traveled outside Moscow and Leningrad not only on vacation.
                  What we tried to buy (oh yeah, not buy, get it - we're talking about the USSR) for ourselves and for housing? German wall, German paints and wallpaper, Czech crystal, Italian or Yugoslavian boots, etc., etc. Everyone remembers "Refrigerator Rosenlev. Finnish, good"And"he has a Grundig receiver". smile
                  And I still don’t remember long, green, smells like sausage.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 3 March 2021 17: 42
                    +1
                    "fridge Rosenlev. Finnish good" in the 80s there was a wonderful fridge Stinol. A friend has been plowing since 1987
                  2. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 3 March 2021 17: 55
                    +5
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    As for consumer goods ... you know, it is very difficult to paint the delights of Soviet goods for those who lived in the USSR.

                    Come on, you will not indiscriminately write down all Soviet consumer goods in junk? You were not alone then. The quality was different there. Actually, like now. The main problem was that they were simply not enough, they often lagged behind the western ones constructively and the design was often not very good.
                  3. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 4 March 2021 18: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Quote: tatra
                    In this speech of Putin, the whole ideology of the enemies of the communists, who seriously imagined that they deserve to own the country, and to slander those from whom they took the country, and cowardly to blame the three on the responsibility for what you and your Yeltsin-Putin government have done with Russia and the Russian people.

                    That is, this is also slander?
                    We had a defense industry - cool, strong, and we are still proud of it. We are grateful to our grandfathers and our fathers for creating such a defense after the Great Patriotic War.
                    From the audience: ... And the first satellite.
                    Vladimir Putin: Both the first satellite and the first man in space are our common pride, these are the achievements of the Soviet government, of which we are all proud. These are nationwide achievements.

                    And as for consumer goods ... you know, it is very difficult to paint the delights of Soviet goods for those who lived in the USSR. Especially for those who traveled outside Moscow and Leningrad not only on vacation.
                    What we tried to buy (oh yeah, not buy, get it - we're talking about the USSR) for ourselves and for housing? German wall, German paints and wallpaper, Czech crystal, Italian or Yugoslavian boots, etc., etc. Everyone remembers "Refrigerator Rosenlev. Finnish, good"And"he has a Grundig receiver". smile
                    And I still don’t remember long, green, smells like sausage.

                    Rave. TV Record-64 is still in working order. Jarn's 1965 refrigerator served until the mid-90s. TV Yunost in the 80s withstood a dozen parachute jumps in a cargo container, was decommissioned already in civilian life due to black and white. The father-in-law still uses the Slava watch, the year of which he no longer remembers. What was released after the mid-70s, I agree, is often crap. But remember the Soviet Victory, for example, it was even copied in the West. You are not lucky to find a real Soviet Union, this is not a reason to crap on it.
            3. Niko
              Niko 3 March 2021 14: 51
              +1
              Quote: "And one of the main qualities of the enemies of the communists is never to admit guilt ..." I beg your pardon, but you can only agree with a proviso: this is the quality of almost ALL argue ardently regardless of party affiliation, political views or religion. from comments to this material)
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 12: 38
            +4
            Quote: Bar1
            in fact, that's what Putin says

            Well, as a historian, he is, to put it mildly, "a so-so historian." )))))))
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 36
              +2
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Well, as a historian, he is, to put it mildly, "a so-so historian."


              you understand that speeches are written to the president, and he does not compose himself.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 07
                +5
                Quote: Bar1
                you understand that speeches are written to the president, and he does not compose himself.

                It is clear that not himself, but I have a question, does he read them beforehand? But this is not the point, but the fact that you refer to the President as an authority in the field of history is not funny yourself?
        2. Obliterator
          Obliterator 3 March 2021 13: 10
          +1
          Quote: tatra
          These ones
          In 1917, 85% of the entire top of the communists in Russia were Jews

          In the 20s, there was such an anecdote "Is it true that only Jews are members of the Bolshevik Party? - No, this is not true - there are also Jewish women there."
  2. paco.soto
    paco.soto 3 March 2021 14: 23
    -1
    after all, the common people, according to their faith, could not fight against the communists.
    Best comment! But!!! In the Russian looped structure of the current moment, the eternal Jews disagree.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 3 March 2021 09: 37
    -5
    It is impossible to ignore the topic of Jewishness of the first Bolshevik government. 85-90% of the composition of the SNK of the RSFSR were Jews, not counting the rest of the non-Russians like Stalin.
    The question arises: How did this party, whose cornerstone and fundamental position was INTERNATIONALISM and "friendship of peoples" became practically mono-ethnic and to push aside the representatives of other nationalities?

    https://afanarizm.livejournal.com/283419.html

    Could the sailors of Kronstadt trust this public? I think the main reason for all the peasant, sailor uprisings was the action against the alien elite of this Bolshevik "Soviet power".
    1. tatra
      tatra 3 March 2021 09: 51
      +6
      Stop lying .
      The first composition of the SNK included:
      Chairman - Lenin, Russian
      Commissars:
      on internal Affairs - A.I. Rykov, Russian
      agriculture - V.P. Milyutin, Russian
      Labor - A.G. Shlyapnikov, Russian
      for military and naval affairs - V. A. Antonov-Ovseenko, Ukrainian
      N.V. Krylenko, Ukrainian
      P.E. Dybenko, Ukrainian
      for Trade and Industry - V.P. Nogin, Russian
      Education - A.V. Lunacharsky, Russian
      Finance - I. I. Skvortsov-Stepanov, Russian
      Foreign Affairs - L.D. Trotsky, Jew
      Justice - A. Lomov (G. I. Ottokov), Russian
      for food - I.A. Theodorovich, Pole
      of mail and telegraphs - N.P. Avilov-Glebov, Russian
      for nationalities - I.V. Stalin, Georgian
      Sources "The supreme bodies of state power and central government bodies of the RSFSR (1917-1967).
      Handbook (based on materials from state archives) ”(prepared by the Central Administration of the RSFSR), Ch. I sec. "Government of the RSFSR"
      Figures of the USSR and the revolutionary movement in Russia.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 3 March 2021 10: 21
        -5
        Quote: tatra
        Foreign Affairs - L.D. Trotsky, Jew


        you wrote incorrectly, the first People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs was Chicherin. Judging by his face, he is also in the same direction as Trotsky.
        1. tatra
          tatra 3 March 2021 10: 33
          +2
          Before writing nonsense "with a clever look", at least they looked at Wikipedia. Trotsky was BEFORE Chicherin. And Chicherin is from an ancient Russian noble family.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 3 March 2021 10: 50
            0
            Quote: tatra
            Before writing nonsense "with a clever look", at least they looked at Wikipedia. Trotsky was BEFORE Chicherin. And Chicherin is from an ancient Russian noble family.


            Well, yes, Trotsky was the first for six months, but with this appointment the Jewish composition increased.
            As for the Chicherin nobility, Duc Rothschild was also a peer, but on this basis he did not become less Jewish.
            1. tatra
              tatra 3 March 2021 10: 57
              +1
              What nonsense. Good luck .
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 3 March 2021 11: 01
                -7
                Quote: tatra
                What stupidity. Good luck .

                everything, everything. Communists, as we see, do not like history.
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 11: 22
                  -4
                  Quote: Bar1
                  Communists, as we see, do not like history.

                  Well, but they are sure that history loves the communists laughing
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 10: 51
          -2
          Quote: Bar1
          you did not write correctly, Chicherin was the first People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs.

          No, that's right - the first people's commissar was Lev Davydych. At the beginning of the 18th, he resigned from his post, so as not to get dirty with the acceptance of the Brest Peace. And the Jewish corps de ballet began - Sokolnikov offers Zinoviev, Zinoviev offers Sokolnikov himself, he threatens in this case to leave the Central Committee, Ioffe flatly refuses, in the end they saw Chicherin sleeping peacefully on the sidelines and voted for him. Like in the movie "Garage" laughing
        3. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 16
          +2
          Quote: Bar1
          Judging by the face, it is also in the same direction as Trotsky.

          Well, yes, you will also propose to judge the criminals according to Lambroso. And the Jews then what did not please you? Incidentally, in RI, with its pronounced anti-Semitism, Jews are one of the most oppressed nations, although they were rather oppressed by religion (special thanks to the ROC). If this is an oppressed nation, then it would be reasonable to assume that there will be many of them in the ranks of revolutionaries.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 3 March 2021 14: 38
            -1
            Quote: aleksejkabanets
            And the Jews then what did not please you?


            so, again everyone has forgotten who the Jews are. Let me quote the words of Napoleon about the Jews.

            nor the main troublemakers in the modern world ... They are the vultures of humanity ... They form a state within a state. Undoubtedly, they are not law-abiding citizens ... Evil in them does not come from individuals, but from the root nature of this people ... The activity of the Jewish nation since the time of Moses, due to all its predisposition, consisted of usury and extortion ... the government cannot indifferently look at how a low, degraded nation capable of all sorts of crimes seizes into its exclusive possession both beautiful provinces of old Eléas. Jews have to be viewed as a nation, not as a sect. This is a nation within a nation ... I would like to deprive them of the right to issue mortgage loans for a certain period of time, because it is too humiliating for the French people to be obliged to this low nation. Whole villages have been robbed by Jews, they reintroduced slavery; these are real flocks of ravens. The harm done by the Jews does not come from individuals, but from the whole nation as a whole. These are the worms and locusts that are ravaging France.
            I decided to correct the Jews, but I do not want to have more of them than there are in my state. I do my best to prove my contempt for this vilest nation in the world.
            Jews are a nation capable of the worst crimes. I wanted to make a nation of citizens out of them, but they are useless for anything other than the sale of second-hand goods. I was forced to proclaim a law against them for their usury and the peasants of Alsace conveyed their thanks to me.
            You cannot change the philosophical teachings of a Jewish character; they need exceptional special laws.
            The Jews are disgusted, but I must admit that they are really disgusting; they are also despised, but they are worthy of contempt.

            NAPOLEON BONAPART / 1769-1821 / Emperor of France. From "Reflections" and speech-address to
            State Council April 30 and May 7, 1806.


            I agree with these words.
            1. aleksejkabanets
              aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 45
              +3
              Quote: Bar1
              I agree with these words.

              I can give you a lot of similar nationalistic statements about any people or race. Do you think that Hitler's path was the right one?
            2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 14: 54
              -1
              Quote: Bar1
              Let me quote the words of Napoleon about the Jews.

              Why Napoleon? In your case, AA Schicklgruber is considered the main expert on Jews, no?
      2. Bar1
        Bar1 3 March 2021 10: 42
        +1
        Quote: tatra
        Stop lying .
        The first composition of the SNK included:


        even in Russia at that time there was such a body of the Central Executive Committee, and it was an important body in the Bolshevik structures of power, where Sverdlov was chaired by a Jew. Sverdlov actually led the Council of People's Commissars after the attempt on Lenin. As you are missing important information.
        1. tatra
          tatra 3 March 2021 10: 47
          +3
          Yes, enough already cowardly to get out, "turning the arrows" from one to another, But the truth is that it was the enemies of the Bolsheviks after the capture of Russia gave the Jews enormous power, huge money and property of Russia.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 3 March 2021 10: 58
            0
            Quote: tatra
            Enough already cowardly to get out, "moving the arrows" from one to


            You don’t need to talk like that, we’re looking at the reason for the Bolshevik repressions, the famine of those years who are to blame. And why are you raising the degree.
            So, apparently, the main decisions on food policy, military and repression were made not even by the Council of People's Commissars, but by the Commission - the Small Council of People's Commissars and the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of those years under the leadership of Lenin, Trotsky, Sverdlov. These guys are not Russian. Apparently, this is why they were so disliked by the people and therefore the Russian people and washed himself with blood.
            1. Malyuta
              Malyuta 3 March 2021 11: 03
              +15
              Quote: Bar1
              under the leadership of Lenin, Trotsky, Sverdlov. These guys are not Russian

              And how did Lenin get into the non-Russians?
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 3 March 2021 11: 11
                +1
                Quote: Malyuta
                And how did Lenin get into the non-Russians?

                strange thing, why don't you know what everyone already knows
                -Ulyanov Ilya is a Mordovian nationality, although looking at this photo I strongly doubt that this is a Mordva. In my opinion, Ilya was also one of these.



                -Lenin's blank-mother nee-her father is a Jew.

                There are a lot of things mixed up here, where is Lenin rusky? That is why he did not like rusks.
                1. Malyuta
                  Malyuta 3 March 2021 13: 03
                  +12
                  Quote: Bar1
                  There are a lot of things mixed up here, where is Lenin rusky? That is why he did not like rusks.

                  It's all nonsense.
                  By the way, I know one Jew who is so Russian that many Russians are not suitable for him, and there are Russians who are sometimes ashamed to be of the same nationality with them. hi
                2. New Year day
                  New Year day 3 March 2021 14: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: Bar1
                  Therefore, he did not like Russians.

                  What are the leaders who loved Russians?
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 4 March 2021 10: 12
                    0
                    Quote: Silvestr
                    What are the leaders who loved Russians?


                    Well, there was such a leader, Comrade Stalin, he, like after the war, raised a toast "to the Russian people", but was Comrade Stalin, the father of nations, sincere in his words? Of course, there is no way to recall his speech at the 10th Party Congress, where he said that the Russian people need to be Ukrainized.
                    For Comrade Stalin, the Russian people were consumables.
                3. Sugar Honeyovich
                  Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 15: 10
                  +1
                  That is precisely why he and Russian are "mixed". Thoroughbred! good laughing
            2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 11: 08
              +2
              Quote: Bar1
              These guys are not Russian

              Quote: Bar1
              that's why the Russian people


              You defiantly distort the word Russian... Is it possible to find out the reason for the disregard for the rules of the Russian language? Only without boring excursions into esoteric etymology. Just tell me - why?
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 3 March 2021 11: 25
                0
                Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                You defiantly distort the word Russian


                you are already the sixteenth to whom I am explaining this.
                the word Russian comes from the chronicles, the Radziwil Chronicle-Rous Land. There are many books, especially the 18th and early 19th centuries, where the authors (Muravyov, Shishkov) write Russian, including the philologist Dal.
                The word Russian with two s is not according to Russian rules, because this word is a proper name, like Rus. And doubling consonants in the middle or at the end of a word is German rules. This should be abandoned.
                And in general, do we speak Russian purely phonetically? we speak Russian.
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 11: 53
                  +8
                  1) Then why don't you write all the words in Old Russian?
                  2) Isn't the adjective "Russian" in Old Russian with two "s", just the suffix "sk" was previously "sk"?
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 3 March 2021 11: 55
                    -2
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    1) Then why don't you write all the words in Old Russian?
                    2) Isn't the adjective "Russian" in Old Russian with two "s", just the suffix "sk" was previously "sk"?


                    you need to understand every word. What word did you mean?

                    I will write the word Rusky with a capital letter, a proper name and cannot be decomposed into a root and a suffix.
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 12: 00
                      +6
                      What word did you mean?

                      Any word in any of your messages. If you write the word Russian in Old Russian, why do you write other words in "modern Russian"?
                      a proper name and cannot be decomposed into a root and a suffix.

                      And this is in which textbook the rule is written about the absence of roots and suffixes for proper names?
                    2. Bar1
                      Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 20
                      -4
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And this is in which textbook the rule is written about the absence of roots and suffixes for proper names?


                      The basic law is of course a historical limitation. Written since ancient times, Rusky and Rouskaya land means that these rules cannot be changed. The rules of the Russian language must proceed from this, and not vice versa.
                    3. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 13: 28
                      +7
                      Written since ancient times, Rusky and Rouskaya land means these rules cannot be changed.

                      Isn't it "Russian"? In "Russkaya Pravda" it is written "Russkaya". I see two "s".
                    4. Bar1
                      Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 32
                      -2
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Isn't it "Russian"? In "Russkaya Pravda" it is written "Russkaya". I see two "s".


                      so what? Who are they? Is Russkaya Pravda Ukrainians?
                    5. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 13: 36
                      +5
                      Who are they? Is Russkaya Pravda Ukrainians?

                      I do not understand what you mean. I - about the number of "s" in the word "Russian"
                    6. Bar1
                      Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 37
                      -1
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      I do not understand what you mean. I - about the number of "s" in the word "Russian"


                      Whose truth is the Russian truth?
                    7. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 13: 42
                      +7
                      Does the number of letters in a word change from whose it is? Not. Then why the question? Again, like yesterday, you do not hold the thread of the conversation.
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 12: 10
          0
          Quote: Bar1
          I will write the word Rusky with a capital letter, a proper name and cannot be decomposed into a root and a suffix.

          Well, it's too much to invent.
          Do you use the generally accepted multiplication table? Or do you, Old Believers, have your own?
        3. Bar1
          Bar1 3 March 2021 13: 23
          -4
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Well, it's too much to invent.
          Do you use the generally accepted multiplication table? Or do you, Old Believers, have your own?


          the rules of philology and the rules of mathematics are the rules of different areas of knowledge. The rules of mathematics are easy to check, by simple counting, and the rules of philology are rules that are invented by a person - who are not even mathematically calculated, like the far-fetched "laws" of history.
          so don't compare it with each other.
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 31
    +5
    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Just tell me - why?

    "Historians" Fomenko-Nosovsky do this, it is more convenient for them to "justify" their delirium.
    Tomorrow they will "scientifically substantiate" that the Ural Mountains were poured by the "ancient Rus". It turns out very conveniently and spiritually, almost like Adolf Aloizovich, with his arias.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 14: 42
      0
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      "Historians" Fomenko-Nosovsky do this, it is more convenient for them to "justify" their delirium.

      Yes, let the native people carry their cryptohistorical nonsense, to hell with them, but at least they did it in normal Russian. Otherwise, it smacks of idiocy when they begin to explain their demonstrative lapses with some kind of Radziwill chronicle 500 years ago. Well, by God, it's funny.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 49
        +1
        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Well, by God, it's funny.

        This is funny to you, funny to me, we had a normal Soviet education. In a dozen years, people without education, such "arguments" will justify certain nationalistic nonsense, beneficial to the ruling class.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 3 March 2021 15: 02
          +2
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          After a dozen years,

          I imagine....
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 3 March 2021 17: 23
      0
      "The ancient Rus poured" this, what happens: the Ukrainians are digging the sea and building the Egyptian pyramids, and the Rus are pouring mountains?
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 17: 52
        0
        Quote: vladcub
        "The ancient Rus poured" this, what happens: the Ukrainians are digging the sea and building the Egyptian pyramids, and the Rus are pouring mountains?

        This I, of course, said in an exaggerated way, but if you listen to Zadornov as a historian, then the ancient Rus-Aryans are direct descendants of the Hyperboreans, etc. I am not a supporter of alternative history. And Fomenko-Nosovsky left not far from him.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 3 March 2021 18: 54
          0
          That's for sure. As far as Zadornov was an artist and a loser, Zadornov is a historian
  • aleksejkabanets
    aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 24
    +2
    Quote: Bar1
    here we understand what is the reason for the Bolshevik repressions, the famine of those years who are to blame.

    Ha ha ha. You understand here, is it not funny yourself? Well, you have chosen the topic. Will historical documents be presented? Or are you going to procrastinate the "Jewish question"? Enough of your cave nationalism here "groom and cherish." Quite different objective and subjective reasons are to blame for the repressions and famine of those years, and the "national question" did not stand side by side here and there. Or Yushchenko's laurels with his "Holodomor" haunt you?
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 3 March 2021 14: 40
      0
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      Or are you going to procrastinate the "Jewish question"?


      with the Jews everything is clear to me and there is nothing to procrastinate.
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 3 March 2021 14: 50
        +1
        Quote: Bar1
        with the Jews everything is clear to me and there is nothing to procrastinate.

        Mein Kampf isn't your reference book?
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 3 March 2021 14: 56
      +2
      Quote: aleksejkabanets
      You understand here, is it not funny yourself? Well, you have chosen the topic.

      Jack Golovan is not on them! He would judge them
  • Richard
    Richard 3 March 2021 11: 00
    +3
    N.V. Krylenko, Ukrainian

    Nikolai Vasilyevich Krylenko (part. Nickname "Abram") is a Russian from the peasants of the Smolensk province. Grandfather - Abram Korneevich Krylenkov. Father - Vasily Abramovich Krylenkov. Mother - Olga Alexandrovna.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 11: 39
    -3
    Quote: Bar1
    It is impossible to ignore the topic of Jewishness of the first Bolshevik government. 85-90% of the composition of the SNK of the RSFSR were Jews, not counting the rest of the non-Russians like Stalin.


    Yes, even the Chukchi !!!
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 12: 35
    +5
    Quote: Bar1
    85-90% of the SNK of the RSFSR were Jews, not counting the rest of the non-Russians like Stalin.

    Yeah, and there were also a lot of blacks and Chinese. Of indeterminate nationality. So they say! fool
  • Far B
    Far B 3 March 2021 04: 24
    -2
    There were just dozens of anarchists among the sailors. And the anarchists are such guys ... Someone, like Zheleznyak, joined the Bolsheviks, someone decided to live according to principles like the Makhnovist ones. In my opinion, at today's (and even more so at that time) level of human self-awareness, responsibility to society, the construction of anarchism is simply impossible. Although the idea is rich laughing therefore, the Bolsheviks first cleared Gulyai-Pole, then other "anarchist enclaves". And Kronstadt would have been cleared of anarchists one way or another, had there been an uprising there or not. It was just that at that time it was impossible to do otherwise.
    But this especially brought:
    Offended fleet commander leaves with his wife in Sochi
    What a damn vulnerable commander turned out to be! laughing With a fine mental organization laughing
  • U-58
    U-58 3 March 2021 05: 28
    .
    Good stuff.
    Even more detailed than in the Soviet school textbook.
    The centenary of the Kronstadt rebellion, like other milestones in Soviet Russia, our "pocket" media will pass over in silence, young people do not even know about it.
    So the article can also be called educational.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 11: 42
      +2
      Well, at the expense of quality, I would not say "good"! However, if at the level of the layman, then you should google the program of S. Vivatenko Vivat History (radio says Moscow) on the internet for March 2021.
      Listen to many things will sparkle with other colors.
  • WHAT IS
    WHAT IS 3 March 2021 05: 32
    +20
    Precisely on the fourth anniversary of the February Revolution, the most terrible thing happened: the "beauty and pride of the revolution" - the Baltic sailors rose up. “The cuckoo has buzzed,” said Trotsky.
    Wintering in the former capital was much more fun than in Kronstadt.
    This caused great irritation among the sailors of the battleships. They became the first troublemakers. It is possible that without this translation, in general, there would be no rebellion.

    How simple it all turns out. The uprising was because they were transferred from the capital. That's what it is, Mikhalych. In Soviet textbooks what happened was explained by the fact that staunch fighters died on the fronts of the Civil War, and instead of them irresponsible people from the village came to the quarters - as if the sailors of the 1917 model were not called up from there! The reason for the "irresponsibility" was letters from home about the actions of food detachments and ChONs and the constant cuts in grain rations - and after the defeat of Yudenich and Wrangel, it became obvious that it was not the "whites" who were to blame for this. that no one had prepared it. If the sailors had organizers and a well-thought-out plan, they would have revolted a couple of weeks later - then the ice in the Gulf of Finland would have melted, and Kronstadt would have become impregnable. In general, then a wave of peasant uprisings and workers' strikes rolled across Russia. a single center, a formal program and ideologists, but there were three basic requirements everywhere: Soviets without communists, freedom of trade, the abolition of the Cheka, and the KronstadtThe protest was a reaction to the events in Petrograd. It was not the sailors who started, but the workers. On February 11, due to the fuel crisis, it was decided to close 93 enterprises across the country, including the famous Putilov and Sestroretsk plants.
    Worker Yuri Lutovinov committed suicide, leaving a note: "And our revolution is bastard, and our revolutionaries are bastards, honest people can neither live nor work." saw the plants and factories surrounded by armed cadets and talked to the workers. The next day the teams of the battleships Petropavlovsk and Sevastopol supported the demands of the Petrograd people at the meetings. and not to parties. "In general, a very superficial article, neither the reasons for the uprising are clearly indicated, nor the course of the uprising, nor how it all ended. The author was negligent in writing the article, what can I say.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 3 March 2021 08: 33
      -2
      Quote: WHAT IS
      The reason for the "irresponsibility" was letters from home about the actions of food detachments and ChONs and the constant cuts in bread rations - moreover, after the defeat of Yudenich and Wrangel, it became obvious that it was not the "whites" who were to blame for this. The course of the uprising confirms that no one prepared it

      Oh, what a pathos ...
      crying
      Let me remind you that the February hydrology revolution in Petrograd began with women's demonstrations under the slogan "Give me bread!", Although the food situation in the capital by that time was the best not only in Russia. In Germany, a long time ago, since 1916, they switched to the rationing system. And in St. Petersburg there were restaurants with such a menu, which can only be learned from the books of the then writers.
      Thus, references to "letters from the Motherland" about the atrocities of the "bloody KEbni" are untenable. And here there is a clear and consistent connection between generations, when various Augs, Tabakovs, Troyanovs and others like them talk "with a blue eye" about censorship and repression in the country, drawing a parallel with North Korea.
      80% of the population of Ingushetia then lived in the countryside. And the overwhelming majority of the peasantry were individual farms that made ends meet. Farms, the number of which did not exceed 15% of the then peasantry, were engaged in the supply of grain from the countryside to the cities, and to St. Petersburg in particular. And these "peasants" were absolutely not interested in whose power in the capital. The main thing is profit from grain trading.
      Bread prices skyrocketed in March 1917. And by 1921 the situation remained the same - the grain was sown and collected, stored in barns. But the outbreak of the Civil War stopped the flow of household goods from the city to the village - practically no seeders, no plows, or even scythes were received. Small number of agricultural machines were imported only from abroad. And you could forget about them.
      Thus, any power in the place of the Bolsheviks would begin to seize surplus grain to supply the urban population.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 3 March 2021 09: 48
      +3
      Quote: WHAT IS
      . Negligent author

      Not negligently, but communistically!
      Works out the history of the Communist Party
    3. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 11: 30
      +2
      The course of the uprising confirms that no one prepared it.

      Therefore, a year later in "Rul", who left for Berlin, Dan wrote
      At the end of February, a strike movement arose in Petrograd, and the Petrograd organization of our party promoted the organization of the labor movement and circulated briefings and appeals, which, due to conditions, were published in Stockholm.

      "Call to the Faithful" and the proclamation of the "Union for the Renaissance of Russia" from the same opera.
      And yes, no one directed the situation in a direction favorable to them.
      In general, then a wave of peasant uprisings and workers' strikes rolled across Russia; they did not have a single center, a formal program and ideologists,

      And events such as Operation Trust or the capture of Mackenzie in the east of the country certainly show that the country did not sway from the outside.
      There was an old book of memoirs of rank-and-file employees of the Cheka / GPU about their work - "A Special Task". There are very interesting stories there.
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 07: 21
    +4
    "At the end of February 1921, the city of Kronstadt and the Kronstadt fortress existed. But it was not they and not even the personnel of the Baltic Fleet, a significant part of which was at that time in Petrograd, who opposed the power of the Bolsheviks, but mainly the sailors of the battleships Sevastopol and" Petropavlovsk ", several other ships and vessels. Later, garrisons of individual forts and a few inhabitants of Kronstadt joined their crews ...
    So, the northern fort N6 not only did not support the rebels, but also opened fire on the city and battleships. Another northern fort, Totleben (Pervomaisky), did the same. A number of forts held neutrality. The most powerful fort of the Kronstadt fortress "Krasnaya Gorka", which was armed with eight newest 12-inch cannons and eight 11-inch mortars, from the very beginning refused to deal with the rebels "(Shirokorad).
    They were more united against the tsarist power and against the whites ...
    1. ANB
      ANB 3 March 2021 12: 34
      +4
      ... The most powerful fort of the Kronstadt fortress "Krasnaya Gorka"

      The Red Hill and the Gray Horse are not located in Kronstadt.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 14: 42
        +2
        Yes. But they took part not far from him.
        1. ANB
          ANB 3 March 2021 15: 34
          +2
          ... But they took part not far from him.

          They took part. But Rambov is much closer to Kronstadt. And it is not.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 3 March 2021 08: 24
    -9
    requirements re-election Councils, freedom of activity socialist parties, the abolition of the institution of commissars and political departments, the abolition of surplus appropriation, etc.

    nothing new, the Bolsheviks themselves promised these freedoms from their first day (then spit on them).
    Fell apart immediately would the newly created state apparatus. And the Red Army would also. Civil war broke out would with renewed vigor. In place of the suppressed nationalists, White Guards, Socialist-Revolutionaries, "green" and bandits appeared would similar forces. The intervention would start again.

    When in the spring of 1921 came down would ice, then arrived in Kronstadt would British navy. Behind him were the White Guards and White Finns, who claimed Karelia and the Kola Peninsula. In Crimea or Odessa, the French fleet landed would 50 thousand Wrangel bayonets.

    White Guard army united would with thousands of "greens" who were still walking in the south. ...
    dozens of "would", not worth a damn.

    The author wondered on the coffee grounds?

    People wanted the promised equality for all parties to be fulfilled, not a dictatorship of a minority from one

    At the same time, Soviet Russia of the 1921 model did not have the resources of 1917. There were no estates and palaces of the nobles and the bourgeoisie, stuffed with good... There were no businesses that could nationalize... Was not and warehouses full of grain. There were no goods, weapons and ammunition.

    The country lay in ruins... The people have lost millions of lives.

    Well done author! He admitted that in 1917 the thieves had captured a completely FAVORABLE country, and the result of the thief and the dispersal of the US was RUINS and millions of victims.

    And it is quite natural that the initiator and creator of all this had to answer.

    And Kronstadt with the Tambov, Siberian and other peasants knew who was to blame for this

    The zestrtva with which they suppressed the uprisings are striking - Kronstad was almost completely depopulated - even the civilian population was destroyed, exiled, evicted ..

    With delegates of the so-called. The 10th congress of the VKPB turned out to be an extremely instructive story: most of them were soon trampled and killed their "comrades in the fight" yes

    But the insurgents achieved something: the NEP was introduced, the prodrazvestka was canceled, people breathed a little more freely, right up to 1930, and for this they are grateful.
    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 08: 57
      +6
      Well done author! He admitted that in 1917 the thieves had captured a completely FAVORABLE country

      No, the author did not recognize the well-being of the country until 1917. I do not know of witnesses to the events who recognized the country in 1917 as "quite prosperous". The author only said that there were fewer resources in 1921 than in 1917. Is it unexpected for you that the Civil War and foreign intervention did not develop economic life?
      Let's better talk about the sexless brothers and sisters of the Ulyanovs, this is at least something new in your usual set.
      1. Olddetractor
        Olddetractor 3 March 2021 09: 53
        +2
        I join the skeptical commentary, no one has yet called that country quite prosperous
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 3 March 2021 11: 48
        -4
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        No, the author did not recognize the well-being of the country until 1917.

        a familiar situation: you look in a book, and you see, yes.

        The author writes that in 1917, before the thief, were: warehouses FULL OF GRAIN, stuffed with GOOD homesteads, WORKING factories, GOODS, WEAPONS and AMMUNITION, while there were NO: ruins and millions of victims.

        But the result of the thief was: hunger, ruins, millions of victims, poverty and lack of grain, goods, etc., etc.
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        The author only said that the resources

        The author only writes that in comparison with the "country" of the Bolsheviks of the 1921 model, (and this mass cannibalism, corpse eating, eating fell and with millions of hunger deaths), Russia of the 1917 model was simply paradise.
        Really..
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        ... Is it unexpected for you that the Civil War and foreign intervention do not develop economic life?

        for you, I see, as for the VOR men, it is completely unexpected that violent seizure of power to losers minority- leads as rule,,, to civil war, devastation and intervention?

        So school it was necessary to visit - and you and the VORTS - and this would not have happened perdimonocle
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        Let's better talk about asexual.

        belay look for anything in the picture that would indicate signs of ... the sex of the individuals yes Maybe you are more ... big-eyed? hi
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 16: 02
          +3
          The author writes that in 1917, before the Thief, there were: warehouses FULL OF GRAIN, stuffed with GOOD homesteads, WORKING PLANTS, GOODS, WEAPONS and AMMUNITION

          1) If you accept without reservations everything that the "Samsonov and Co" collective writes, then be consistent. Since "Samsonov and Co" writes that the communists saved Russia from death, then also say that the author is well done.
          2) Not "estates stuffed with good", but "estates of the DORIANS and BOURGEOIS, stuffed with good." Which is nothing more than a resource for expropriation, since there were simply no other sources to cover the financial needs of the state by 1918... That's how much everything was "safe".
          3) To consider someone's private property as an indicator of a prosperous situation in the state ... to put it mildly ... stupid. Example ... Trade speculators or industrialists on state orders increased their "prosperity", and the country, because of their specific actions, was slipping into the abyss. Is this the "welfare" of the country?
          4) Not "working enterprises", but "enterprises that could be" NATIONALIZED. "As they say in Odessa, these are two big differences. The fact of nationalization is not a characteristic of" working capacity in general ", since production does not exist in isolation from other areas economic life is only a method of excluding intermediaries between the state and production, what determines not the "income", but the "expenditure" component.
          5) Weapons and ammunition? A sign of well-being? It's like blurt out that the USSR in the 80s had a prosperous economy and there were no prerequisites for its deterioration, since there were 60 tanks.
          6) The presence of warehouses full of grain in 1917 with a decrease in the cultivated amount by 28% and non-fulfillment of state fees by 44% is a sign of a collapse of distribution and marketing, and NOT well-being.
          7) And also to the "well-being according to Olgovich" can be attributed to the fact that Samsonov, in his right of the author, simply decided not to write. For example, debt or daily spending on the war (you recently boasted about the size of the railway workers' pension fund ... and so it can be paid in 1917 for only five days of the war).
          You can round off with points. Well-being is your interpretation of the author's words, or rather a hallucination.
          for you, I see, as for the thieves, it is completely unexpected that the violent seizure of power a losing minority- leads, as a rule, to civil war, devastation and intervention?

          Why are you making such a clarification (I'm talking about the highlighted part)? Maybe to fence off the violent seizure of power in February of the same year or attempts to forcibly seize power in August-September? tongue And what, there are seizures of power "as it should", and there are "others"? Solid impartiality wassat
          look for anything in the picture that would indicate signs of ... the sex of the individuals

          It's not even a stupid explanation, it's just a pitiful explanation.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 3 March 2021 16: 05
            -4
            Quote: A vile skeptic
            The author writes that in 1917, before the Thief, there were: warehouses FULL OF GRAIN, stuffed with GOOD homesteads, WORKING PLANTS, GOODS, WEAPONS and AMMUNITION

            1) If you accept without reservations everything that the "Samsonov and Co" collective writes, then be consistent. Since "Samsonov and Co" writes that the communists saved Russia from death, then also say that the author is well done.
            2) Not "estates stuffed with good", but "estates of the DORIANS and BOURGEOIS, stuffed with good." Which is nothing more than a resource for expropriation, since there were simply no other sources to cover the financial needs of the state by 1918... That's how much everything was "safe".
            3) To consider someone's private property as an indicator of a prosperous situation in the state ... to put it mildly ... stupid. Example ... Trade speculators or industrialists on state orders increased their "prosperity", and the country, because of their specific actions, was slipping into the abyss. Is this the "welfare" of the country?
            4) Not "working enterprises", but "enterprises that could be" NATIONALIZED. "As they say in Odessa, these are two big differences. The fact of nationalization is not a characteristic of" working capacity in general ", since production does not exist in isolation from other areas economic life is only a method of excluding intermediaries between the state and production, what determines not the "income", but the "expenditure" component.
            5) Weapons and ammunition? A sign of well-being? It's like blurt out that the USSR in the 80s had a prosperous economy and there were no prerequisites for its deterioration, since there were 60 tanks.
            6) The presence of warehouses full of grain in 1917 with a decrease in the cultivated amount by 28% and non-fulfillment of state fees by 44% is a sign of a collapse of distribution and marketing, and NOT well-being.
            7) And also to the "well-being according to Olgovich" can be attributed to the fact that Samsonov, in his right of the author, simply decided not to write. For example, debt or daily spending on the war (you recently boasted about the size of the railway workers' pension fund ... and so it can be paid in 1917 for only five days of the war).
            You can round off with points. Well-being is your interpretation of the author's words, or rather a hallucination.
            for you, I see, as for the thieves, it is completely unexpected that the violent seizure of power a losing minority- leads, as a rule, to civil war, devastation and intervention?

            Why are you making such a clarification (I'm talking about the highlighted part)? Maybe to fence off the violent seizure of power in February of the same year or attempts to forcibly seize power in August-September? tongue And what, there are seizures of power "as it should", and there are "others"? Solid impartiality wassat
            look for anything in the picture that would indicate signs of ... the sex of the individuals

            It's not even a stupid explanation, it's just a pitiful explanation.

            funny you .... yes
    2. denplot
      denplot 3 March 2021 11: 14
      +5
      I am a Kronstadt. What are you talking about nonsense about the total cleansing of the civilian population, this was not the case. Only the participants in the rebellion were subjected to repression.
      My great-grandfather, a former conductor of the Baltic Fleet, did not take part in the mutiny and no one touched him. His father-in-law was on the side of the rebels and was shot after the assault. His son (my great-uncle) went on the ice to Oranienbaum as part of a group of red cadets and stormed Kronstadt.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 3 March 2021 14: 39
        -4
        Quote: denplot
        I am a Kronstadt. What are you talking about nonsense about the total cleansing of the civilian population, this was not the case. Only the participants in the rebellion were subjected to repression.

        and how can you be a Kronstadt and .... not know the history of YOUR city?
        I do not understand....

        http://lhistory.ru/statyi/krasnyj-led-kronshtadta :
        They were arrested ordinary residents Kronstadt. From the spring of 1922 began their mass eviction from the island: in total, more than 235 thousand people were removed - both "crown rebels" and people not at all connected with the uprising
        1. denplot
          denplot 3 March 2021 16: 40
          +3
          I know the history of my hometown very well. What 235 thousand people are you talking about? The population of Kronstadt for the entire period of its history has never exceeded 50 thousand people. Now 44 thousand. Ol'govich how long can you catch you in a lie?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 4 March 2021 08: 31
            -1
            Quote: denplot
            The population of Kronstadt for the entire period of its history has never exceeded 50 thousand people. Now 44 thousand. Ol'govich how long can you catch you in a lie?

            fool
            you, an ignoramus, it is written that they took out not only the townspeople, but in general everyone who was there, see. http://lhistory.ru/statyi/krasnyj-led-kronshtadta:

            Show me, vrn, where and how much you caught me on bullshit.
            Your gut is thin, yes ...
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 09: 28
              0
              you, an ignoramus, it is written that they took out not only the townspeople, but in general everyone who was there, see.

              Aliens or what? It is a well-known fact that at that time they left the cities, and did not come, because in the countryside it was less hungry (for example, the population of Petrograd decreased from 2 million to 0,7 million). Therefore, trying to move out on visitors is not an option.
              And by the link in black and white:
              Ordinary people were also arrested. residents of Kronstadt... From the spring of 1922 began their mass eviction from the island: in total, more than 235 thousand people were deported - both "crown rebels" and people who were not at all connected with the uprising.

              I wonder if you will apologize to Denis or as always?
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 4 March 2021 10: 22
                -2
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Aliens or what?

                illiterate, or what? belay

                in black and white it is written that by force:
                taken out - toas "crown rebels", and not at all associated with the uprising of the people.

                It was about a total clean-up of the city. Which the Kronstadt denied.


                and she WAS.

                WHAT didn't get it? belay
                1. Foul skeptic
                  Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 10: 43
                  0
                  It didn't come on the basis of which, you have "people not associated with the uprising" = "not the townspeople of Kronstadt", but "rebels" = "all the townspeople of Kronstadt." Especially considering that
                  1) the eviction, according to the author of the article cited by you, began a year later.
                  2) in total, according to the author of the article you cited, 10 thousand people were involved in the investigation, which is less than the population of Kronstadt in 40-50 thousand people, which means there are (40-50) -10 = (30-40) thousand "not related to the uprising of the people. " Which does not contradict the suggestion you quoted. But it leaves the question with an error in the article with the number of people evicted, since there is no explanation for 235 thousand.
                  Maybe you'd better not call Denis names, but Pecherin, for putting you in an awkward situation, the numbers do not really agree, and there are no documents confirming the author's words in the article, only his words?

                  PS Inhabitant of another planet in the nominative case is written "alien", not "alien". I just can't imagine a situation when you could respond with an insult to this word, which is in my genitive case - "illiterate or something." Is that taking before this for an insult by me with the word "aliens". fool
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 4 March 2021 11: 00
                    -1
                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Didn't get it

                    Then read the THIRD time:
                    exported - how "Crown rebels", and not at all associated with the uprising of the people.


                    And again: it was about the fact that there was / was not a total cleansing of the city. And she WAS.

                    It is a fact

                    Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                    Inhabitant of another planet in the nominative case is written "alien", not "alien". Just I can not imagine


                    from the impossibility of being able and your question. But I am to her ... which side? request
                    1. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 11: 20
                      0
                      And again: it was about the fact that there was / was not a total cleansing of the city. And she WAS.

                      Will you reinforce your words about "totality"? Or "gentlemen" take their word for it. Everything has to be done for you.
                      Here are the numbers:
                      In 1921 he was sentenced in the case of the Kronstadt mutiny:
                      VMN - 2103 people
                      Conclusion - 6459 people
                      In 1922 expelled from Kronstadt:
                      Participants in the mutiny - 1963
                      Not participants in the mutiny - 388
                      You will only have to find information on these 388s, because you still HAVE TO CONFIRM that their eviction is associated with the mutiny in Kronstadt, and not, for example, with speculation, participation in opposition parties, etc.
                      But it is so clear that there was no "total" cleansing of the city.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 March 2021 11: 56
                        -1
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        But it is so clear that there was no "total" cleansing of the city.


                        yes, yes, in your "history" there have never been millions who died of hunger, but instead of them there were well-to-do peasants, we remember, yeah.

                        .
                        Yours liarswho wrote the so-called the "history" of the country and lying to the point of losing all decent appearance, were ever interested in the fate of those who disappeared then residents of Kronstadt? Petrograd? Moscow? Have you written monographs, looked for personalities, witnesses, victims, traces, etc.? Not?

                        NO!

                        Therefore, only today they begin to write The REAL History of the country, not that one her false version never existed parallel "reality" that is. And this is very difficult, because yours carefully washed it and hid everything.

                        Here is the evidence this root Kronstadt - KRAYEVED Sergei Zaitsev, and not chatterboxes-don’t know:
                        Black day for Kronstadt - June 29, 1921... Many books say that it all started a year later. But actually it is not... It was on this day that the mass eviction from Kronstadt began even of those who did not directly participate in the uprising, but their relatives, sympathizers and just ordinary people who lived on the island at that time.... They did not go to Finland, they hoped that they would be allowed to live in peace. But the commissions for the crones were earned very quickly. In the center of the city, on Roshal Square, the first batch of evicted people was assembled,
                        . According to the government commission of Alexander Yakovlev on rehabilitation, which was engaged in this, as a result of resettlement, LESS than 1000 people remained on the island from those who lived there before the uprising. After the uprising, all military units and crews of the ships were disbanded, the ships were renamed. Pnot only fire brigades, police, guards, but also civilian objects were disbanded - documents have been preservedabout the inventory of the barber shop that worked during the uprising. Everyone was cleaned up, both small and large bosses, and most of the people were thrown out of the island. Loyal to the Bolsheviks could choose where to move, but there weren't many of them. After that, Kronstadt was settled with people from the Tver, Pskov regions, from the north. The eviction lasted for several years, and evicted received a black mark, many were impaired: could not be elected, could not get a normal job.


                        The suppression of the Kronstadt uprising is a tragedy not only of its participants, this is the tragedy of the city... Until the 60s, the questionnaires often contained the question: where were you during the Kronstadt uprising?

                        What pleases me is that most of the commanders who stormed Kronstadt was repressed in the 1930s.
                      2. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 12: 17
                        +1
                        Oh, hysteria again. When there are no arguments, Yaroslavna's crying immediately begins, "yours are ours and the transition to personalities.
                        Yes, yes, RadioSvoboda, have heard.
                        Just please provide photocopies of archival orders written by Zverev on June 29 and reports indicating the number of evicted. He doesn't refer to anything. Do it for him in this case.
                        I now operate a 700-page collection of archival documents published in 1999.
                        And then you quite recently broadcast convincingly about 235 thousand, evicted in 1922. Why should your new "facts" be worth more?
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 March 2021 13: 13
                        -1
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Oh, hysteria again. When there are no arguments, Yaroslavna's crying immediately begins

                        tantrums the data of the Government Commission are given.

                        You have nothing behind your soul. Emptiness. Zero.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Just please provide photocopies of archival orders written by Zverev on June 29 and reports indicating the number of evicted

                        Just contact your local historian: he referred to the documents.

                        Just provide the documents about the residents before the uprising and the residence of the same residents after the massacre. Photocopies.

                        No?

                        When you find it, come. In the meantime, they are not interesting.
                      4. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 13: 59
                        +1
                        the data of the Government Commission are given.

                        Let's start with the fact that you DIDN'T CREATE the documents of this commission, but cited the WORDS of a local historian in the reportage of RADIO.FREEDOM. The same one who talked about Russia's support for the terrorist regime of Assad, which uses chemical weapons and talked about Russia's occupation of Crimea. And the commission is the same, which rehabilitates without considering the cases of the rehabilitated. Oh well.
                        You have nothing behind your soul. Emptiness. Zero.

                        What a passage. Calling card: No arguments - there are "words of sobbing"
                        Just contact your local historian: he referred to the documents.

                        You can refer to anything, your local historian in one interview calls June 29, and in another the same - already June 28. Moreover, he is confused in the same place with the number of those executed - 2168 and 2103. This, of course, is a distinctive feature of documentary filmmaking - inconsistent numbers.
                        Just provide the documents about the residents before the uprising and the residence of the same residents after the massacre. Photocopies.

                        The affirmation is proved, not the denial, apparently you are not able to remember this. You have a statement, I have a denial of your statement. Then figure out for yourself who brings the evidence?
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 March 2021 14: 19
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Let's start with the fact that you DIDN'T CREATE the documents of this commission, but cited the WORDS of a local historian in the report

                        A.1. You are given a figure from real named DOCUMENT .

                        Take it and read it!

                        If you find anything else there, come, but not earlier.

                        But as long as you have -ZERO
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        You can refer to anything, your local historian

                        lol
                        means, the words of a dunno for you ... authority, but a local historian is already "anything"
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        The affirmation is proved, not the denial, apparently you are not able to remember this.

                        And your denial is ... not a statement?

                        So throw away this nonsense then, yeah ...

                        Proofs - see Clause 1
                      6. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 16: 45
                        0
                        means, the words of a dunno for you ... authority, but a local historian is already "anything"

                        And you yourself can estimate its "authority". In an article in the "Kronstadt Bulletin" he writes
                        Even then, the maniacal anger of our "leaders" was obvious ... Trotsky-Bronstein ("Who does not surrender - everyone will be shot, from 6 to 60 years old, of both sexes")

                        This is the very "Who will not surrender - everyone will be shot, from 6 to 60 years old, of both sexes" Novozhilov invented in a letter to Demidov in the "Action Center". Here is an excerpt:
                        There is one feature that depicts the true greatness and holiness of the Kronstadt impulse: the soldiers insisted on the unconditional withdrawal of all officers in the first place in view of the obvious execution for them in the event of captivity. But the fate of the rest can be guessed unmistakably by remembering warning the Petrograd Defense Council that they will be "shot like partridges"and
                        Trotsky's order that all residents of the rebellious city from 6-year-old
                        age
                        .

                        Everything highlighted is either an outright lie or a distortion:
                        1) the command and the Military Revolutionary Committee fled the first to Finland, without informing the military units
                        2) Here is the address of the KOP before the assault
                        To the deceived people of Kronstadt.

                        Now do you see where the villains were leading you? We got through! From behind the Socialist Revolutionaries and
                        the Mensheviks already showed the bared teeth of the former tsarist generals. Of all
                        these Petrochenoks and Turins are being pulled like dancers by a string, the tsar's general
                        Kozlovsky, Captain Burxer, Kostromitinov, Shirmanovsky and other notorious
                        white guards. You were deceived! You were told that you are fighting "for democracy."
                        Less than two days have passed - you see: in fact, you are fighting not for democracy, but for the tsarist generals, you have put a new Viren on your neck ...

                        ... you are surrounded on all sides. A few more hours will pass and you are forced to
                        you will give up. Kronstadt has no bread, no fuel. If you persist, you will be shot like partridges. All these generals Kozlovskys, Burksers, all these scoundrels Petrochenkos and Turins at the last minute, of course, will run away to the White Guards in Finland. And you, deceived ordinary sailors and Red Army men, where are you going to go? ...
                        Give up now, without wasting a minute! ...
                        Whoever surrenders immediately - his guilt will be forgiven!

                        3) there was no such order

                        And your "authority" REPEATS A FAMOUS LIES.
                        And your denial is ... not a statement?

                        For those who do not understand well, I paraphrase
                        The statement is proved, not the denial of this statement
                      7. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 4 March 2021 20: 41
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        2) Here is the address of the KOP before the assault

                        this nonsense
                        the bared teeth of the former tsarist generals have already appeared.
                        -Do you think ... an argument? belay lol

                        Is it true? fool

                        Yes, this is a stupid lie and propaganda.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And your "authority" REPEATS A FAMOUS LIES.

                        everything is true with him, yes.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        For those who do not understand well, I paraphrase
                        The statement is proved, not the denial of this statement

                        For the avaricious: a negative statement is the same statement as a positive one.

                        If you do not agree, throw out your statement. I think that it is not.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        There is no really named document, you do not understand what, what
                        According to the government commission

                        this is not the name of the document, do you see its number and date so that you can identify it among others?

                        you understand that the results of activities Commission under the President of the Russian Federation for the rehabilitation of victims of political repression appeared DOCUMENTS or not?

                        The Commission you know which report you know to look for, go to the archive and read it!

                        WHAT is it still not clear to you ?!
                      8. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 5 March 2021 08: 16
                        0
                        this nonsense
                        the bared teeth of the former tsarist generals have already appeared.
                        -Do you think ... an argument? belay lol
                        Is it true? fool
                        Yes, this is a stupid lie and propaganda.

                        This may be at least a hundred thousand times a lie and propaganda, but this has nothing to do with the fact that Novozhilov's letter distorts the text of this document (which is why it was given to you to show it), and your local historian repeats thereby a KNOWN LIE.
                        You deliberately turn off the main thing - that the "authoritative" Zaitsev gives a non-existent order.
                        negative statement is the same statement as positive

                        Why are you writing this? - no one argues with this.
                        You are told which of these two types of statements is proved! What, everything is completely bad, does not reach?
                        do you understand that the results of the activity ... were DOCUMENTS or not?

                        The typical trick of manipulators is to invent something, do not present evidence and send them to look for something that does not exist in the archives. Everything is in the style of "conspiratorial protocols".
                  2. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 17: 10
                    0
                    You are given a figure from a real named DOCUMENT

                    There is no really named document, you do not understand what, what
                    According to the government commission

                    this is not the name of the document, do you see its number and date so that you can identify it among others? Not. This is the same as the "conspiratorial protocols."
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 10: 53
    0
    It was about a total clean-up of the city. Which the Kronstadt denied.
    and she WAS.

    Yeah, that is, the word of an Internet publicist, which now can be anyone, in the text of which there is a gross error that immediately catches the eye and in whose article there is not a single reference to information sources for some reason more objectively than the words of a person who events know from the words of relatives. And why? Because you want to?
    Just please provide photocopies of archival orders on total eviction and reports on its implementation with an indication of the number of evicted, so that you can determine the "totality" of the eviction. You can not? Well, what's the matter then.
  • denplot
    denplot 4 March 2021 11: 12
    -1
    It is physically impossible to accommodate 235 thousand people there.
    And I caught you on lies and I will catch you. All.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 4 March 2021 12: 10
      -1
      Quote: denplot
      It is physically impossible to accommodate 235 thousand people there.
      And I caught you on lies and I will catch you. All.

      there was total sweep city.

      and you are simply ignorant and did not even bother to learn the history of your city. negative
      . According to government commission Alexandra Yakovleva on rehabilitation as a result of resettlement LESS than 1000 people remained on the island from those who lived there before the uprising

      hack it on your nose.

      You are caught on lies negative
      1. denplot
        denplot 4 March 2021 12: 45
        -1
        To refer to Yakovlev is ridiculous. And yet, what about 235 thousand people?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 4 March 2021 13: 20
          -2
          Quote: denplot
          To refer to Yakovlev is ridiculous.

          Link to the data of the GOVERNMENTAL commission against which your chatter is zilch

          And a link to real Kronstadt patriot and connoisseur of the history of his city KRAEVEDA Sergei Zaitsev, :
          A black day for Kronstadt is June 29, 1921. Many books say that it all started a year later. But actually it is not. It was on this day that the mass eviction from Kronstadt began even of those who did not directly participate in the uprising, but their relatives, sympathizers and just ordinary people who lived on the island at that time. They did not go to Finland, they hoped that they would be allowed to live in peace. But the commissions for the crones were earned very quickly. In the center of the city, on Roshal Square, the first batch of evicted people was gathered,
          ... According to the government commission of Alexander Yakovlev on rehabilitation, which was engaged in this, as a result of resettlement, LESS than 1000 people remained on the island of those who lived there before the uprising. After the uprising, all military units and crews of the ships were disbanded, the ships were renamed. Not only fire departments, police, security, but also civilian objects fell under the disbandment - documents from the inventory of a hairdresser that worked during the uprising were preserved. Everyone was cleaned up, both small and large bosses, and most of the people were thrown out of the island. Loyal to the Bolsheviks could choose where to move, but there weren't many of them. After that, Kronstadt was settled with people from the Tver, Pskov regions, from the north. The eviction lasted for several years, and the evicted received a black mark, many were impaired in their rights: they could not be elected, could not get a normal job.


          The suppression of the Kronstadt uprising is a tragedy not only of its participants, it is a tragedy of the city. Before the 60s, the questionnaires often contained the question: where were you during the Kronstadt uprising?


          How can you not know ... your own history? belay request
          1. denplot
            denplot 4 March 2021 13: 57
            0
            He is the same ethnographer as Yakovlev is a communist, that's all. So what about the 235 thousand evicted then?
          2. denplot
            denplot 4 March 2021 15: 14
            0
            Which government commission? Yeltsin and Gaidar? Under the leadership of the former chief ideologist of the CPSU Central Committee, and then the fierce anti-Soviet Yakovlev? How can you trust people who have betrayed all their ideals? Do you believe the traitors Olgovich? I personally don't. I am ready to believe the enemy, but not the traitor.
          3. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 17: 31
            -1
            Link to the data of the GOVERNMENTAL commission against which your chatter is zilch

            AND? A government commission of one country sent one citizen to the UN to wave a test tube.
            Here is an example of the composition of the rehabilitation commission:
            Vasiliev O.A. - Deputy Governor of the Vologda Region, Chairman of the Commission;
            Trofimova O.V. - Assistant to the Deputy Governor of the Vologda Region, Executive Secretary of the Commission.
            Commission members
            Koryukina A.L. - head of the department of social payments, Deputy Head of the Department of Social Protection of the Population of the Vologda Region;
            Gladilova I.A. - head of the information center of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Russia in the Vologda region (as agreed);
            Doronina G.A. - Head of Education, Health Care, Social Policy, Culture and Sports Financing Department Department of Finance of the Vologda Region;
            Afonin Yu.B. - head of the group for registration of archival funds FSB of Russia for the Vologda Region (as agreed);
            Chernyshev D.N. - Head of the Department of Civil Protection and Social Security Vologda Oblast, Deputy Chairman of the Committee for Civil Protection and Social Security of the Vologda Oblast.

            Who here can be qualified to establish the lawfulness / non-lawfulness of the use of reprisals? There are no investigators, no jurists, no lawyers. This is ALL you need to know about the ongoing "rehabilitation".
  • denplot
    denplot 4 March 2021 11: 34
    0
    Kronstadt was not only a naval base, but also a fortress intended for defense from the sea. Numerous military structures of the fortress (port, docks, warehouses, etc.) required significant contingents of military personnel. In addition, a permanent garrison of land units was stationed in Kronstadt. In the winter of 1921, there were: 560th Rifle Regiment, Kronstadt Separate Rifle Regiment, consolidated detachment, Detachment of the Chief Mine Chief, Detachment of the Chief Artillery Chief, Workers and Engineers Battalion, mine training and training artillery detachments, mine school, transport convoy , the penalty company of the fortress, fire brigade, as well as numerous transport, repair, sanitary, economic and many other institutions and divisions. [198]

    In addition to the listed (far from completely) units and subunits, numerous headquarters were also stationed in Kronstadt. In addition to the headquarters of the fortress and the political department with subordinate units (clubs and other cultural and educational institutions), there was also a special department of the Baltic Fleet, a revolutionary tribunal, a party school, etc.

    The total number of naval teams, naval sailors of coastal units, auxiliary units, as well as ground forces stationed in Kronstadt and at the forts, as of February 13, 1921, was 1455 commanders and 25 privates, a total of 432 people.
    So convincing?
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 March 2021 17: 07
    +2
    "The father-in-law was on the side of the rebels and was shot after the assault. His son left on the ice to Oranienbaum as part of a group of Reds" is a typical example for GV. Any war is a tragedy for the people, and a civil war is a tragedy in Cuba.
    Burn in a fiery hyena for everyone who is trying to start a civil war. No matter what disguises they wear, but their insides are black
    1. denplot
      denplot 3 March 2021 19: 35
      -1
      Totally agree!
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 3 March 2021 14: 53
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    And Kronstadt with the Tambov, Siberian and other peasants knew who was to blame for this

    Yes, we knew!
    "" In the interests of both this revolutionary movement and the reputation of the "white" cause, it is necessary that you and we, your associates, are not identified with the leaders of the movement. The democratic, workers', soldier-sailor character of the Kronstadt and Petrograd revolutions must be preserved without the admixture of the White Guard and bourgeois element: only in this case will this movement exert that decomposing influence on the units of the Red Army remaining in the hands of the Soviet power, which will finally undermine foundations of this power. Any foreign impurity can only harm the case "(Guchkov's letter to Wrangel on March 8, 1921). That is, no matter how guilty, no matter how bad the Bolsheviks are, others are even worse ...
  • New Year day
    New Year day 3 March 2021 09: 43
    +5
    How simply the author described the reasons for the uprising: drunkenness, smuggling, winter, women. I forgot the general situation in the country, hunger.
    Here are just the slogan "Soviets without Communists" and a quote from Lenin, the question of power was raised, and this is the main reason for the uprising. 4 years of the power of the Bolsheviks have already been assessed
    1. tatra
      tatra 3 March 2021 11: 25
      +1
      And what, once happened in world history, so that after the revolutions and your counter-revolution, the enemies of the Bolsheviks, during Perestroika "the whole people, in a single impulse," was for the new power?
    2. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS 3 March 2021 12: 00
      +9
      drunkenness, smuggling, winter, women.

      And a bottle of rum. Do not say, not the Kronstadt naval base, but some kind of pirate Tortuga. The sailor got drunk in a tavern, got into a fight and let's get into a mess for no reason, so drunk smugglers swarmed because of nothing to do. After painstaking work in the archives, the author gave the deepest analysis, well done.
      1. Avior
        Avior 4 March 2021 09: 30
        +3
        Quite in style
        Well, who else wants to try the commissar body?


        And then they re-educated themselves.
        Stirlitz, for example, went to work in intelligence, got out into the people, the world has seen. :)
  • tatra
    tatra 3 March 2021 10: 38
    +1
    The enemies of the Bolshevik Communists all 103 years after the October Revolution by what they did, said and wrote, prove that they, with a maniacal fix idea, were eager to take the country away from the Bolshevik Communists and their supporters, but they never proved in any way that they themselves are worthy and capable of owning the country, starting from what they did not have and do not have good power for their country and people.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 3 March 2021 12: 01
      -5
      Quote: tatra
      Enemies of the communists all 103 years after the October Revolution, by what they did, said and wrote, they prove that they, with a maniacal fix idea, were eager to take the country away from the Bolshevik communists and their supporters, but they never proved in any way that they themselves are worthy and capable of owning the country, starting from the fact that they did not have and do not have good power for their country and people.

      Uv. "Enemies of the Communists", let me correct you: not 103 years, but all 104 years enemies of the communists after the October Revolution, by what they did, said and wrote, they prove that they, with a maniacal fix idea, were eager to take the country away from the Bolshevik communists and their supporters, but they never proved in any way that they themselves are worthy and capable of owning the country, starting from the fact that they did not have and do not have good power for their country and people.

      Make changes to your outline hi
      1. tatra
        tatra 3 March 2021 12: 43
        +2
        Again, the enemy of the communists blurted out nonsense. 103 years, 4 months, and 9 days have passed since the October Revolution. The enemies of the communists completely lack a sense of responsibility for their words. On October 25, my birthday, I will begin to write 104 years.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 3 March 2021 14: 17
          -2
          Quote: tatra
          Again enemy of the communists blurted out nonsense. 103 years have passed since the October Revolution, 4 months and 9 daysй


          Again comrade. The "enemy of the communists" blurted out nonsense: he counts the difference from the date to ...Juliansky calendar until today is already by ...Gregorian. lol.

          And this, yes, different things that you might know. It turned out to be nonsense, and as always -
          Quote: tatra
          there is no sense of responsibility for your words at all
          yes

          Quote: tatra
          October 25 -in My birthday I'll start writing104 years .

          The same age Cycle October, I think all we congratulate you on such a significant date hi

          ps By the way, what style? Otherwise, we will not have time to live according to the old style, like the others, and get lost ... recourse
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 3 March 2021 12: 00
    +2
    The experience of all of Europe shows in practice how an attempt to sit between two chairs ends. "
    Look what hello to Vitya from Rostov. good good
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 3 March 2021 13: 26
    -2
    "The country lay in ruins. The people lost millions of lives. Russia could simply not have withstood the new massacre. And it would have gone into historical oblivion. Thus, there was no" third way "." This is true and the result of the Civil War unleashed by the Bolsheviks with their coup d'etat!
    Unfortunately, the author could not get away from the scheme given in the Short Course. request The Bolsheviks further, through the mouth of the VIL, admitted their defeat in economic policy and introduced the NEP, but did not transfer political power. Although they were obliged to be bankrupt ... If the same NEP had lost power, but without the transition to collectivization, the country would have recovered and began to develop, like the same Germany.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 3 March 2021 18: 40
      +1
      Quote: DrEng527
      The Bolsheviks further, through the mouth of the VIL, admitted their defeat in economic policy and introduced the NEP, but did not transfer political power. Although bankrupts were obliged ...

      Do you really believe in this nonsense you're talking about? And to whom were they supposed to transfer power? This is if we ignore the fact that no one in such a situation owes nichrome to anyone, and if you want to get power you have to fight for it.
      1. DrEng527
        DrEng527 4 March 2021 10: 29
        -1
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        Do you really believe

        are we really on you?
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        And to whom were they supposed to transfer power?

        the people - to hold free elections to the same Soviets, for example, under the guarantees of amnesty, all the participants of the Civil War ...
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        and if you want to get power, you have to fight for it.

        a banal question arises - why are they taking power? To mock the people? Or for people to live better?
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 4 March 2021 19: 46
          +1
          Quote: DrEng527
          the people - to hold free elections to the same Soviets, for example, under the guarantees of amnesty, all the participants of the Civil War ...

          What kind of people? And if the Bolsheviks had won again? What then?
          Quote: DrEng527
          a banal question arises - why are they taking power? To mock the people? Or for people to live better?

          Power is taken to make life better for those who take power. And everything else is your naive fantasies.
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 5 March 2021 11: 26
            0
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            What kind of people?

            living in Russia, or have you lost the topic?
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And if the Bolsheviks had won again? What then?

            then they would confirm their legitimacy request However, you have a mistake in your question - the Bolsheviks did not win the elections - they seized power and held on to it at the expense of terror ...
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            it was better for those who were taking power.

            Then why did the Bolsheviks arrange the GW? to get hold of power? wink
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And everything else is your naive fantasies.

            Far from it! Normal people in power work for the good of the country - see Stolypin, Kokovtsev ... And Lenin hi
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 5 March 2021 11: 50
              0
              Quote: DrEng527
              living in Russia, or have you lost the topic?

              How do I know what is going on in your wild imagination.
              By the way, you still haven't answered the question.
              Quote: DrEng527
              However, you have a mistake in your question - the Bolsheviks did not win the elections - they seized power and held on to it at the expense of terror ...

              And how legitimate is the current government then? laughing
              Quote: DrEng527
              Then why did the Bolsheviks arrange the GW? to get hold of power?

              The GV was not arranged by the Bolsheviks, but by those who did not want to come to terms with their victory.
              Quote: DrEng527
              Far from it! Normal people in power work for the good of the country - see Stolypin, Kokovtsev ... And Lenin

              The first two worked for the benefit of the ruling class. Lenin is from a completely different opera.
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 5 March 2021 12: 08
                -1
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                And how legitimate is the current government then?

                as far as possible - elections are held regularly and they are relatively fair ... hi
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                The GV was not arranged by the Bolsheviks, but by those who did not want to come to terms with their victory.

                Okay, I'll give you an analogy from modern times - who unleashed the GW in Ukraine? Bandera. that they made a coup in Kiev, or the Donbass people who did not submit to them? wink
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                The first two worked for the benefit of the ruling class.

                What a Marxist nonsense ... bully One might think that under their rule there was no order in the country and it did not develop in all spheres ... At the same time, salaries, productivity, the number of students, just the number of people grew ...
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Lenin is from a completely different opera.

                namely, he destroyed the country and plunged it into the GW with terrible sacrifices - for what?
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 5 March 2021 12: 57
                  0
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  as far as possible - elections are held regularly and they are relatively fair ...

                  Oha. Honest. It's already funny. laughing
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Okay, I'll give you an analogy from modern times - who unleashed the GW in Ukraine? Bandera. that they made a coup in Kiev, or the Donbass people who did not submit to them?

                  That is, Lenin is equal to Bandera? Awesome comparison. Just like the favorite of the liberal ragtag Stalin is equal to Hitler. Patriots are such liberals.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  One might think that under their rule there was no order in the country and it did not develop in all spheres ... At the same time, salaries, productivity, the number of students, just the number of people grew ...

                  That is, your empty demagoguery of the guardian of anonymous is not nonsense, but Marxism based on a scientific approach is nonsense? It's five. Let's not talk about development. Here a hundred times have already written that all this development was not worth a damn.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  namely, he destroyed the country and plunged it into the GW with terrible sacrifices - for what?

                  So that such a stupid person like you does not die in a German concentration camp or receive a democratic bullet between the eyes so that your children do not starve while the next scum is bathed in champagne. And so that you are not such a scum. So that humanity has not the hopeless future that capitalist science fiction writers draw, but that which Efremov drew.
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 5 March 2021 13: 12
                    -1
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    Oha. Honest. It's already funny.

                    compare with the US elections, maybe the fun will disappear ... request
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    That is, Lenin is equal to Bandera? Awesome comparison.

                    Very accurate - both are kept by the Germans ...
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    Just like the favorite of the liberal ragtag Stalin is equal to Hitler.

                    well, why - Hitler did not particularly spread rot on the Germans - he destroyed other peoples request
                    The IVS was engaged in the destruction of its own people! And so they have a lot in common - both of the Social Democrats, both artistic natures, both bloody dictators wink Alas, the facts are a rather stubborn thing - it was the IVS that concluded a treaty of friendship with Hitler! And Hitler divorced him, and the result - terrible victims in the Second World War ... request
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    That is, your empty

                    Did we switch to you? It's humiliating for me to have people like you ...
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    and Marxism based on a scientific approach is nonsense?

                    it looks like you haven't studied Marxism - this is pseudoscientific nonsense ... request
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    ut already a hundred times wrote that all this development was not worth a damn.

                    you never know what they write! There are facts - for 5 years before WW1, the pace of development of RI was higher than in the USSR during the years of the 1st five-year plan, while without strain, hunger and repression ... request
                    read - everything is written here, for those who want to know http://istmat.info/node/166
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    In order that such a stupid person like you does not die in a German concentration camp

                    1) that you are badly brought up and ignorant - I already understood, you do not need to try further bully
                    2) During WW1, RIA beat the Germans with dignity, unlike the Red Army, it did not skip to Mostkv / Stalingrad and the losses on the Eastern Front were comparable ... request
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    And so that you are not such a scum

                    As I understand it, you have no arguments, there is a banal malice of ballpoint ... bully
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    and the one that Efremov painted.

                    eka how stupid you are that you believe in inventions, however in Russia you have always had enough of the likes bully
                    1. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 5 March 2021 14: 33
                      -1
                      In general, everything is clear with you. Once again, a liberal fascist was hiding under a personal patriot.
                      1. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 5 March 2021 14: 37
                        0
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        In general, everything is clear with you. Once again, a liberal fascist was hiding under a personal patriot.

                        to put it politely, the opinion of another Sharikov about my person is not interesting to me ... hi live in your dreams, but you don't even have them - you have Efremov's ... bully
                      2. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 5 March 2021 14: 39
                        0
                        And what do you have a secondary second-rate cattle? laughing
                      3. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 5 March 2021 14: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        And what do you have a secondary second-rate cattle?

                        1) Sharikov decided to take away and divide? bully
                        2) Against my background, you are an illiterate, primitive and flawed pseudo-Bolshevik ... hi
                      4. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 5 March 2021 14: 55
                        -2
                        Pass by the cattle, such as you do not serve. laughing
  • Unknown
    Unknown 3 March 2021 14: 40
    +1
    The author more or less outlined the situation with the Kronstadt mutiny. 1921 - the year has not really ended, G.V. , the country has not really calmed down. The freedom of the revolution walked in the minds of not only sailors in Kronstad, but also in the RKPb itself. There were many supporters of War Communism, including Trotsky. The struggle within the party was just beginning. The St. Petersburg RKPb was ruled by Zinoviev, who was also the same figure, he had a lot of business there. In Kronstad itself, most of the sailors tended to anarchism in general. The policy of war communism pursued by Trotsky, it was time to wind down, everyone understood. The mutiny hastened the completion of such a policy. But the rebellion itself was not against the Soviet power, the proteges of the RKPb did not suit. And without them, too, at this stage it was impossible, then the power of the Soviets itself would have collapsed, and the usual Makhnovism began. To be honest, the sailors didn’t want any power in those days, but it doesn’t happen that way. It was impossible for the country to flare up again G.V. Therefore, they did not act so harshly with the participants in the rebellion, in the 22nd year they were amnestied.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 March 2021 16: 47
    +1
    “Soviets without communists” led Russia to a new catastrophe, ”Stalin said at the Central Committee Plenum:“ Party bodies should focus on party work, and not replace councils at all levels. ”So Stalin wanted to destroy the“ recreated state apparatus ”?
    1. sniperino
      sniperino 5 March 2021 15: 17
      +1
      Quote: vladcub
      It turns out that Stalin wanted to destroy the "recreated state apparatus"?
      Separated party affairs and state
      The 1936 Constitution made an addition to the definition of the place of government in the state machinery. The Council of People's Commissars of the USSR was defined as "the highest executive and administrative body of state power." The 1924 Constitution did not contain the word “superior”.
      Secretaries irresponsibly meddled in state and local government, replacing councils and commissars, of whom there were many, which is why ministries were created in 46.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 3 March 2021 19: 50
    0
    IMHO the rebellion was purely on the basis of everyday life and the disorder of the service. Plus, the frenzy of revolutionary freedom and permissiveness among sailors has not yet passed. And then the charter and the new chiefs are forced to serve. So they rebelled out of habit with PMV. The authorities have exemplarily shown that the children were taken in the wrong place. And then the Soviet power itself began to create myths about the mutiny of the Kronstadt instigated and led, of course, from abroad and once again by external enemies. Well, the myth was finally designed by agitprop and writers by order of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party. Something like this I see this event.
  • Moskovit
    Moskovit 4 March 2021 00: 50
    0
    The communists fought for power for 4 years. Millions of people died. It took the greatest exertion of strength. And then they must, at the request of the sailors, give all this to someone. Naive guys
  • Avior
    Avior 4 March 2021 09: 17
    +1
    I read and remembered one of the frequently used quotes from Alexander III that Russia has only two allies.

    And here, it turns out, one ally dispersed the other after they together expelled the son of Alexander 3 himself.
  • mark021105
    mark021105 5 March 2021 21: 47
    0
    And on "Russia 24", today Svinidze "mourned the victims" of the Kronstadt rebellion ...
  • Pardus
    Pardus 11 March 2021 16: 00
    +7
    The interim government did not take any investigations or measures against the murderers. More dear to yourself.

    It's just that the Provisional Government did not have real power and strength to restore order in the country.
  • Pardus
    Pardus 11 March 2021 16: 07
    +11
    The British press wrote about the shelling of Petrograd by the fleet, the uprising in Moscow and Lenin's flight to the Crimea.

    The British press has always had fake news and heinous lies.
  • Pardus
    Pardus 11 March 2021 16: 08
    +12
    In 1922, by the 5th anniversary of the October Revolution, a significant part of the rank and file insurgents were amnestied. In two years, half of those who fled to Finland returned under two amnesties.

    Still, the Soviet government was too kind to its enemies.