The Armed Forces of Ukraine will train massively on laser firing imitation systems

The Ukrainian military appreciated the experience of using laser firing imitation systems during the exercises, which have been used in the Armed Forces of Ukraine since last year. In classrooms and outside, servicemen learn to fight on new simulators, not only in virtual space, but also in real terrain.

The Commander of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Colonel-General Alexander Syrsky, spoke about innovations and achievements in the field of training personnel of the armed forces of Ukraine in an interview with the Ukrainian edition of Defense Express.

We have begun the widespread introduction of new forms of combat training. In particular, we introduced into the practice of conducting company tactical exercises using the MILES and LASERTAG laser firing imitation systems. This allows us to simultaneously save resources, improve the professionalism of personnel and better work out the coordination of actions of subunits.

- said the Ukrainian general.

He noted that, taking into account last year's experience, the Armed Forces will massively train fighters on laser systems for imitating shooting. In particular, LASERTAG systems will go to all training centers for training units and combined arms training grounds of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The LASERTAG simulation system allows for training without wasting ammunition. When the "bullet" hits the target, the place of impact on the participant of the training battle begins to glow. A fighter puts on special equipment for training, consisting of a crest and unloading, and weapon equipped with a special block that simulates a shot using a laser pulse.

Comments

[rocket757]

the weapon is equipped with a special block that simulates a shot using a laser pulse.

as a primary training method, okay ... but shooting is also necessary.

[credo]

Quote: rocket757

the weapon is equipped with a special block that simulates a shot using a laser pulse.

as a primary training method, okay ... but shooting is also necessary.

Over the years, the understanding comes that the complete collapse of industry in the former Soviet republics will only play into the hands of Russia, because the Russophobia cultivated in most of these republics can exist only on their financial well-being.
The less finance will be in the same Ukraine, the less will be spent on the Ministry of Defense, and then you look and soberness will come.

[rocket757]

Quote: credo

the less will be spent on MO, and then you look and sobering up will come.

It is used logically save on military expenditures .. but just who they allow?

[credo]

Quote: rocket757

Quote: credo

the less will be spent on MO, and then you look and sobering up will come.

It is used logically save on military expenditures .. but just who they allow?

All true.
It follows that? Correctly. It follows from this that Ukraine will be forced to spend more and more on armaments and militarization of the country while simultaneously cutting spending on social needs (pensions, health care, education) and developing the economy, squeezing out the last juices from the country and bringing the aborigines to a bestial state. until they start to crawl on their knees and wear pots of drushlags instead of hats (as in 2014).

[rocket757]

Quote: credo

It follows that?

So there is a limit to everything ... even patience.
However, situations are different, it is useless to think ahead.

[credo]

Quote: rocket757

Quote: credo

It follows that?

So there is a limit to everything ... even patience.
However, situations are different, it is useless to think ahead.

How is this limit determined?
For example, the "freedom-loving" Balts, with special masochism destroying the entire Soviet legacy in their republics and dooming themselves exclusively to handouts from Brussels. Has it become a limit and an incentive for them to restore what was destroyed? Not. They were given the right to leave and were encouraged to do so. As a result, the most capable and quick-witted went abroad, and the Nazis and old people remained, of whom the former are loyal dogs of the ruling elite, and the latter are no longer capable of active actions. The boundaries of the limit are not visible.
The same is happening now in Ukraine and its western "partners" know perfectly well how to keep power in the orbit of their interests and act accordingly.

[rocket757]

By the way, about the experience and other skills of the ruling class, to manage the population, you can especially emphasize! Moreover, you will not find a better, working alternative now with fire during the day.
For example, I do not hope, already, to wait for some noticeable changes in the life of the country, the world, maybe / probably when not later.

[credo]

Quote: rocket757

By the way, about the experience and other skills of the ruling class, to manage the population, you can especially emphasize! Moreover, you will not find a better, working alternative now with fire during the day.
For example, I do not hope, already, to wait for some noticeable changes in the life of the country, the world, maybe / probably when not later.

It all depends on what you expect from the upcoming changes.

[rocket757]

I do not expect anything ... I am slowly teaching the wards different skills and at the same time the history / rules of life, not the one / the ones that are being fed to them now, but the one that I myself was taught.
Hopefully they will become normal people and not the "vegetables" that are now grown in ... many places.

[Runway]

Primary education in what subject BP? fire? Tactics?
These things are good to use with RTU without live firing (although it is better to link everything into a complex lesson).

[rocket757]

Quote: WFP

Initial training for PSU what subject?

How to pull the trigger and so on, which can be taught without shooting ... these are primary skills, not full-fledged fire training.

[Runway]

Spool of thread and QY (3 per company / battalion) - breathing, smooth descent, keeping on the aiming line ... yes, I forgot the notebook sheets in the box.

[Proxima]

Quote: rocket757

as a primary training method, okay ... but shooting is also necessary.

I immediately recall the youth of the future super sniper Vasily Grigorievich Zaitsev. While hunting, his grandfather did not trust a gun, and for training sniper skills he made him a bow and so Vasily hunted birds in the taiga. Well, when he filled a good eye, you have picked up firearms. In short, there are many ways to save ammo.

[dgonni]

It's not about shooting! This avtars wrote for the cartridges. It is about tactics in the closest approximation.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

There is nothing normal in this - as an element of zeroing in weapons, I still understand (although there are many nuances that are not suitable for a laser), but personnel training?

[Sergey39]

Save cartridges. And so you can change the battlefield to a monitor screen.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Sergey39

Save cartridges.

the laser shot occurs along with the blank ... I don't think it's very economical ...
and understanding of this war simulator gives quite a (beam "shoots" up to 200-250 meters).

[Sergey39]

So I say that you can train fighters in general in the audience. Only the preparation will be incomplete. And they are unlikely to use blanks.

[Kisa]

Quote: NEOZ

laser shot occurs

from 7.62 -39 if 0 - at 100m, the bullet falls by 15 cm at a distance of 200m ... by one and a half meters - 500m - and how will he gauge his eyes to the target if the laser is straight like a stick.?

[NEOZ]

Quote: kitty

from 7.62 -39 if 0 - at 100m, the bullet falls by 15 cm at a distance of 200m ... by one and a half meters - 500m - and how will he gauge his eyes to the target if the laser is straight like a stick.?

But what about the lucky ones with a collimator sight, in this case?
PS
First, any type of military tactical exercise is full of conventions and assumptions.
This is a big problem, but not critical with the right approach.
In principle, all combat training renders conventions, perhaps in addition to drills.
Any shooting exercise is a convention, starting with non-responding targets and ending with specially prepared terrain. Wait until nightfall, create a realistic target environment in a very refined forest, and not every group of well-trained shooters, in principle, will be able to detect targets, having all the necessary "chpoks", like night lights and "teplakov" for mad millions!
Secondly, you cannot skip the exercise stage. If you have given markers or "oholoschenka" to the employees / fighters, get ready for the fact that everything will start with a game of war. But how long this stage will last, and, in principle, whether the unit will be able to pass it, depends on the head of the class or the instructor.
It is their task to turn the "war" into training, or, in other words, to make the game format a TOOL or take only the necessary TOOLS from military tactical games.
Taking into account all these conventions and planning the lesson in such a way as to minimize their effect is the main task of the instructor.
do you agree?

[Kisa]

so who can argue. if one complements the other. the author of the article seems to argue that the laser ruler is a cheap alternative to real shooting. I don’t know how much they’ll save there - the zinc of army cartridges costs a penny. short burst is half a second .... the horn spit out, the barrel warmed up - the group sags ... all this needs to be felt

[Avior]

The author does not write about shooting, and laser tag is not used as a substitute

[rocket757]

The author wrote that you can learn this way ... you really can.

[Avior]

Studying is possible. But tactics, not shooting.
Shooting - at the range or in the type.

[Cananecat]

And the imitation of the battle will be reproduced by the acoustic system ...

[MP]

Most likely, each soldier will voice his own shots. Well, you get the idea :)

[NEOZ]

Quote: Canecat

And the imitation of the battle will be reproduced by the acoustic system ...

a laser shot occurs along with a blank ...

[Avior]

... The LASERTAG simulation system allows for training without wasting ammunition.

I wonder what kind of ammunition the author was going to save?
What, somewhere, instead of simulators of shooting, they shoot at each other at exercises and trainings?
Laser tags have long been used throughout the world for training by the military

[nnm]

LASERTAG ??? This is the same entertainment as in the clubs for teenagers in small venues. To combat training indoors and combat conditions in the city can still be useful.
But you will not be able to take the lead correctly even at medium distance, neither set the sight, nor feel recoil, you get used not to shoot through the smoke, you get out of the habit of changing the magazine, etc.
In principle, it is better for them to go straight to paintball.

[Avior]

With laser tags, they practice combat tactics, not shooting skills.
How do you imagine shooting by combatants in training with a conditional enemy - a neighboring company?
Shooting skills are gained at the shooting range .....

[nnm]

Colleague, I understand why this is being done. But then let's imagine it in practice ... let's take the "platoon in defense" BUSV - which one

Quote: Avior

combat tactics

LASERTAG will allow you to work? At what distance does the enemy go on the offensive? What is the point, then, of a laser at such distances? - 0 in the period! Maneuvering fire on sectors at such distances - efficiency 0!
That is, in fact, even when practicing tactics, the LASERTAG will give at least some effect when the fighters are ten meters apart, but what is the point of practicing tactics if the fighter gets used to starting combat work at the moment when he sees the pupils of the enemy? )))
I will repeat myself - in your words, for sure, there is a rational grain, but it is in my subjective opinion, except for the tactics of fighting in closed rooms and partly fighting in the city, LASERTAG will not only allow nothing to be worked out, but will also be harmful.
And this I am silent, as the main fire force of the platoon - the machine gun and RPG will participate in working out the tactics.
And there, judging by the text, they are going to "fight" in companies.

[Avior]

Don't you confuse it with children's toys? In terms of range, army simulators correspond to the effective firing range of specific types of weapons. There are also RPGs and machine guns. There are also for armored vehicles and other main weapons, including anti-tank systems.
Such systems were already in the USSR -9F824, for example, and in the Russian army they are also used and produced in Russia.

In addition to the 9F838 kit, within the framework of the creation of an integrated automated training system "Bas-relief-SV", laser devices for firing imitation for heavy infantry weapons were adopted to supply the Ground Forces of the Russian Army: 9F854 for the RPG-29 anti-tank grenade launcher, 9F855 for the AGS-17 automatic grenade launcher and 9F856 for ATGM Fagot and Konkurs. Structurally, the 9F854 and 9F856 kits are made similar to the IS-9/10 and have a range from 200 to 1000 m.

Another thing is that they are not cheap.

[strannik1985]

But you can’t take the right lead

https://trutnee.ru/lasertags/saab
You can, serious companies, such as SAAB or Rheinmetal, make LISP, whose computers fully take into account the ballistics of replaceable ammunition, lead time, flight time. They also produce the entire line of simulators from machine guns to ATGMs, mine detectors, medical and military equipment. "Correct" LISP is very serious.

[Dmitry Vladimirovich]

In classrooms and outside, servicemen learn to fight on new simulators, not only in virtual space, but also in real terrain.

That is, the ballistics of the bullet, the flight time of the bullet to the target - well, they are too difficult for the boys.

[Avior]

What do the "lads" have to do with it?
This is what the whole world is doing
Americans since the 70s, in the USSR since the 80s

A set of 9F824 devices was installed on small arms: AKMN, AK-74N machine guns, RPKN, RPK-74N, PKN machine guns and an SVD rifle using a standard mount for a night sight on the receiver. A laser pulse simulating a shot is fired simultaneously with a blank shot from a weapon. The range of the firing range entered into the simulator was from 50 to 500 m, the mass of the transceiver was 1350 kg. The defeat simulator included ten photodetectors fixed to a helmet and uniform, a power supply unit, an electronics unit, and an indication unit indicating a “defeat”. Its total weight was 5,4 kg.
The unified laser firing and engagement simulator "Zorkiy" for infantry fighting vehicles (BMP-1, BMP-2) and "Radar" for tanks (T-55, T-64, T-72, T-80) was intended to simulate firing from artillery and missile armament of equipment and its mutual destruction during bilateral tactical exercises and trainings without the use of ammunition. The set of instruments included a transceiver mounted on a gun mask, a power supply, an electronics unit, a set of photodetectors and means of light and pyrotechnic imitation of damage. The range was from 300 to 3000 m for artillery weapons and from 2500 to 4000 - for tank guided missiles.

The Russian army also uses

In the late 1990s. the second generation of laser imitators of the development of the Tochpribor Central Design Bureau was adopted to supply the Russian Army. It was a platoon set of laser simulators of shooting and destruction 9F838 "Tselik", providing an imitation of the entire range of weapons of a platoon and company. In addition to this, in 2008, the State tests of the Barelief-SV laser-simulated shooting and destruction means for armored vehicles as part of an integrated automated training system for the Ground Forces were successfully passed. The production of kits for small arms and equipment is carried out at the state-owned enterprise Novosibirsk Instrument-Making Plant.
The 9F838 kit includes several types of firing simulators for almost the entire range of infantry weapons (see table), as well as intermediary weapons, simulators of personnel and target destruction, a charger and a reconciliation device.

[Zkv_4]

The connector on the photo is Chinese FQ14.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Cadet's cry - "Shot"
The instructor's cry "Hit! Lost! AHressor is running")

[orcinus]

As a person who played on prof. level in laser tag, I want to say that the benefits of this format of classes are great! You learn (on a subconscious level) to choose the desired shooting sector, you understand how and from where you need to move, at what speed. Plus, complex statistics are written in software, i.e. everything is recorded there: from range to accuracy. Also, importantly, you learn to work in a group. Here someone wrote about RTU, so there people understand the essence (although not everyone) of modern types of combat, but precisely the so-called. the "factor of being killed or wounded" is conducive to acting differently. And the last, similar equipment (and standard products of AK, SVD, RPK are used) are also available for armored vehicles. There are also grenades
Those. people learn to understand the radius of damage, etc. - all parameters are customizable. Pysy, the firing range can also be adjusted, in ic. to do and one to one.

[Looking for]

judging by this post. the outskirts have tremendous problems with ammunition. This is good .. this is very good.

[Kuzmitsky]

It would be nice, but alas, the old Soviet stocks of shells and cartridges are probably not exhausted yet. Not in Ukraine, not in Eastern European countries.

[iouris]

... and it's all about them, a little about the weather.

[Ripap]

Wow, Ukrainians have discovered a laser tag! Well, wow, so soon they will be learning tactics in counter-strike

[Avior]

Judging by the comments, many on the forum discovered its existence from this article

[Ripap]

It's just that we were doing this in the 9th grade in the CWP camp) And here it turns out to be an advanced and unparalleled uberzoldat training system))

[Avior]

I doubt that you used the 9F838 "Tselik" complex or some other military one.
if used, you're in luck.
In my childhood, I also ran on Zarnitsa with a wooden model of the AK, but somehow it did not occur to me to equate this activity with combat training

[Nikolaevich I]

Just a waste of money! Slingshots are cheaper!