Military Review

Kalashnikov submachine gun. PPK-20

99

PPK-20 submachine gun


The Russian press reported on the completion of state tests of the new Izhevsk submachine gun in the second half of July 2020. The new product, developed by the specialists of the Kalashnikov concern, was assigned the PPK-20 index. It stands for 2020 Kalashnikov submachine gun.

This abbreviation was also adopted in order to perpetuate the memory of Viktor Mikhailovich Kalashnikov (died in 2018) - the son of the legendary Soviet gunsmith designer. Viktor Mikhailovich at one time developed the domestic submachine gun PP-19 "Bizon", equipped with an under-barrel auger magazine, as well as the long-awaited so-called large submachine gun PP-19-01 "Vityaz", aka "Vityaz-SN" in a different version ... On the basis of "Vityaz-SN" and was designed a modernized version of the submachine gun.

Earlier, a group led by the son of Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov developed and put into production a whole family of domestic submachine guns, including the Bizon-2 model chambered for 9x18 mm and Bizon-2-01 chambered for 9x19 mm. On the basis of the latter, Viktor Mikhailovich's group in 2004 created a new submachine gun "Vityaz-SN", which was equipped with a box magazine designed for 30 rounds.

Kalashnikov submachine gun. PPK-20
Viktor Mikhailovich Kalashnikov

In 2005, the Vityaz-SN submachine gun chambered for the very common 9x19 mm Parabellum (Luger) pistol cartridge was officially adopted by the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs. According to the press service of the Kalashnikov concern, at present this sample of the Izhevsk rifle weapons is in service with the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, the FSO of Russia and the FSB of Russia.

Features of the submachine gun PPK-20


For the first time, a new Russian submachine gun PPK-20, developed by the Kalashnikov group of companies, was presented to the general public in 2020 as part of the Army-2020 international forum. When performing development work on the creation of a new model of small arms, the serially produced in Izhevsk submachine gun "Vityaz-SN" was taken as a basis.

The Vityaz-SN submachine gun (unlike the usual Vityaz) was based on the AK-105 assault rifle model. The very name "Vityaz" was given to the line of small arms in honor of the special purpose unit of the internal troops of Russia "Vityaz", for which these submachine guns were developed at the Izhmash concern in due time. This weapon is designed to defeat manpower, as well as unarmored enemy equipment, primarily trucks and cars.


According to the Kalashnikov group of companies, during the development work on the creation of the PPK-20, the designers took into account all the comments identified during the serial production of the Vityaz-SN submachine guns. And the composition and design of the new product are brought in line with the requirements of the tactical and technical assignment.

It is emphasized that in PPK-20, the designers managed to significantly improve the ergonomics of the product, as well as the equipment attached to it. The reliability of the submachine gun has also been improved. In addition, a low-noise firing device was introduced into its composition.

Currently, the PPK-20 includes a belt with a two-point and one-point fastening on the body of a submachine gun and a special bag made of material with a digital camouflage color. The bag is designed for the shooter to carry low-noise firing devices, magazines, fasteners, a gun oiler and other devices.

PPK-20 is equipped with a six-position folding telescopic butt, which folds to the left side. The pistol grip is ergonomic. In addition, an additional shelf appeared on the translator of fire modes, which should have a positive effect on the stability of firing from weapons. A long Picatinny rail is located on the receiver cover. In addition, the mounting strips can be installed from the bottom and from the side on the forearm of the weapon, providing the convenience of attaching a multiple body kit.

A slotted flame arrester with a bayonet mount for a low-noise firing device is installed on the PPK-20. This connection should be familiar to all owners of modern SLR cameras. The bayonet connection is a quick connection of parts by axial movement and rotation of one of them relative to the other, so that the shooter can quickly install the muffler on the PPK-20.


Not much information is known about the tactical and technical characteristics of the 9-mm PPK-20 submachine gun, but the Kalashnikov group of companies has already disclosed basic information. It is known that the total length of the novelty is from 640 to 700 mm, depending on the position of the butt. Barrel length PPK-20 is 233 mm. The type of ammunition used is 9x19 mm Parabellum cartridges, the capacity of the magazines used with the weapon is 30 rounds. Weapon weight - 3,65 kg. Apparently, this is the mass of the submachine gun already along with the cartridges.

PPK-20 supply prospects


Deliveries of the new 9mm PPK-20 submachine gun should begin as early as 2021.

On February 22, 2021, Dmitry Tarasov, CEO of the Kalashnikov group of companies, told reporters about this. According to him, there was no supply of a new submachine gun yet. Tarasov made his statement at the IDEX-2021 international arms exhibition held in the UAE.

Many experts and journalists (including foreign ones) believe that the novelty will not interest the military and is intended primarily for the police forces. At the same time, the resulting weapon is really relatively light and compact, which is achieved (including) through the use of pistol 9-mm cartridges. Also, thanks to the use of these ammunition, the PPK-20 boasts a relatively small recoil.

The Kalashnikov group emphasizes the fact that they have not only significantly changed the equipment of the model, but also took into account all the problems that previously existed with the release of Vityaz-SN submachine guns and could cause some difficulties, including during the operation of weapons ... In the presentation videos, which are distributed by the arms concern, it is said that the PPK-20 has already passed state tests and was recognized as fully suitable for mass production.


On July 22, 2020, the interdepartmental commission not only recognized the new product from Izhevsk as suitable for mass production, but also recommended that the weapon be named "9 mm Kalashnikov PPK-20 submachine gun" to perpetuate the memory of designer Viktor Kalashnikov.

There is a possibility that the new development of the Izhevsk gunsmiths will replace the Vityaz submachine guns. And it will also be used by employees of special units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, the FSB of Russia and the FSO of Russia.

At the same time, at the moment, nothing is known about the export plans for the PPK-20 model, although the novelty from Udmurtia has already been presented at the international arms exhibition IDEX 2021. The very presentation of the PPK-20 in the United Arab Emirates is undoubtedly evidence that Kalashnikov »Is considering the possibility of selling these small arms to foreign clients.

So far, there is no information on the development of a civilian version of the 9mm PPK-20 submachine gun or its predecessors.

In the absence of a civilian version of the weapon, the only and quite successful opportunity to somehow get to know the PPK-20 is only the American version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle under the designation KR-9 SBR, chambered for the same 9x19 mm cartridge.

Weapons with a magazine for 30 rounds are produced in the United States in various designs and are available to buyers at a price of 1059 dollars.
Author:
Photos used:
https://kalashnikov.media и https://kalashnikovgroup.ru
99 comments
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  1. Sofa batyr
    Sofa batyr 2 March 2021 05: 27
    +14
    It is clear that the Kalashnikov scheme was used, but for a pistol cartridge, is there a need for such a bulky receiver, borrowed from the AK, practically in the "as is" format?

    A number of iconic submachine guns chambered for a pistol cartridge have more modest dimensions of the weapon body, and, consequently, less weight and different ergonomics ...

    1. martin-159
      martin-159 2 March 2021 06: 04
      +13
      Subcompact based on the "Ural".
      1. Sofa batyr
        Sofa batyr 2 March 2021 06: 12
        +3
        Quote: martin-159
        Subcompact based on the "Ural".

        good yes
        This is what he had in mind when he commented on the PPK-20 scheme.

        More precisely, not the circuit itself Kalashnikov, which is not deprived of flattering epithets, but the fact that using it, it was possible to significantly rework the receiver and the moving parts of the mechanism in order to reduce the mass and dimensions of the weapon.

        Perhaps, following the path of maximum unification with AK, someone thought something like that about reducing the cost of production, but are we such a poor country, and the Kalashnikov concern is barely making ends meet to go this way?

        Tea is not a wartime regime ...
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 2 March 2021 09: 28
          +1
          Sofa, here the stereotype works: to the maximum unification, which is necessary in wartime.
          In our conditions, such beggarly behavior can be explained by monopoly: "Kalashnikov". Who can compete with him in Russia? And on the international market you will have to dump
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 2 March 2021 12: 00
            +1
            I am also of the opinion that when creating a new weapon, ergonomics, ease of use and maintenance, and of course, reliability should be put at the forefront. Unification with other weapons for the sake of reducing the cost of production is the same kind of half way. If you want something cheap, set a task for the designers to make it cheap and you will get something like PP Sudaev (1942-1945 year of production). But such an approach can justify itself only in case of war, and that is doubtful (why a mediocre PP, when warehouses are crammed with previously released AK assault rifles).
        2. Kalmar
          Kalmar 2 March 2021 09: 47
          0
          Quote: Divan-batyr
          More precisely, not the Kalashnikov scheme itself, which is not deprived of flattering epithets, but the fact that using it, it was possible to significantly rework the receiver and moving parts of the mechanism in order to reduce the weight and dimensions of the weapon.

          In an amicable way, practically nothing is needed from the Kalashnikov scheme; USM except that. Moreover, in the form in which it remained in the "Vityaz", it creates problems: the shutter warps during rollback and breaks the guides. There were many complaints about the civilian "Saigas-9" on this topic.

          Quote: Divan-batyr
          but are we really such a poor country, and the Kalashnikov concern can barely make ends meet to go this way?

          Judging by the reviews on civilian products of the KK, they always find it very difficult to move away from the "Kalashnikov" scheme; Apparently, all production is very tightly tailored to it. Then, we must remember that "Bizon" and "Vityaz" were created in difficult years, when "easier and better" - it was not just a whim, but a guarantee of the development's survival. If you are too smart, you will not find a customer, because it is too expensive. And now it’s somehow too lazy to alter it radically.
      2. NDR-791
        NDR-791 2 March 2021 06: 19
        +4
        In the absence of a civilian version of the weapon, the only and quite successful opportunity to somehow get to know the PPK-20 is only the American version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle under the designation KR-9 SBR under the same 9x19 mm cartridge
        Controversial statement. A common Saiga-9 with a shortened barrel and automatic firing capability.

        A number of iconic submachine guns chambered for a pistol cartridge have more modest dimensions of the weapon body, and, consequently, less weight and different ergonomics ...
        This is of course true, but if there is a choice between setting up a new line for production (and it is necessary in this case) or inconvenience and heaviness for the fighter, guess what they will choose? Therefore, 90% of the details of an ordinary Kalash and go!
        but are we really such a poor country, and the Kalashnikov concern can barely make ends meet to go this way?
        Maybe not, but PROFIT rules in our system. Hence such solutions
        1. 4thParasinok
          4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 19
          0
          Quote: NDR-791
          inconvenience and heaviness for the fighter, guess what they will choose? Therefore, 90% of the details of an ordinary Kalash and go!

          Do you want to say that the most popular PP MP5 is smaller or lighter? first look at his performance characteristics, and only then express your opinion.
      3. NEOZ
        NEOZ 2 March 2021 13: 47
        +1
        Quote: martin-159
        Subcompact based on the "Ural".

        or AKS74U at minimum salaries)))))) ...... why?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 2 March 2021 16: 14
          -1
          Quote: NEOZ
          or AKS74U at minimum salaries)))))) ...... why?

          Because of the cartridge. You TTX AKS and PPK compare ..
        2. loki565
          loki565 11 March 2021 22: 55
          -1
          It is used in counter-terrorism operations, in urban development.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 2 March 2021 06: 49
      -1
      Quote: Divan-batyr
      It is clear that the Kalashnikov scheme is used,

      What do you mean by "Kalashnikov scheme"?
      1. Sofa batyr
        Sofa batyr 2 March 2021 08: 11
        -1
        Quote: mat-vey
        What do you mean by "Kalashnikov scheme"?

        Complex of design features inherent in this model / design of the weapon.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 2 March 2021 08: 14
          +1
          Quote: Divan-batyr
          A set of design features inherent in a given weapon model / design.

          And how is the free shutter inherent in the "AK circuit"?
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar 2 March 2021 09: 51
            +2
            Quote: mat-vey
            And how is the free shutter inherent in the "AK circuit"?

            USM, receiver hump, return mechanism. Even the gas outlet tube remained there (of course, nothing leads anywhere). Closer to the AK, only a new carbine from the "Hammer" - there even the gas rod from the bolt was too lazy to saw off))
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 2 March 2021 09: 54
              -1
              Quote: Kalmar
              Even the gas outlet tube remained there.

              There is no pipe ...
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar 2 March 2021 10: 00
                -1
                Quote: mat-vey
                There is no pipe ...

                Here it is:

                Another thing is that she is there just like that.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 2 March 2021 10: 07
                  0
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  Here it is:

                  Where? The upper part of the forend is just a pad without any "tubes".
                  and the shutter is generally different - not collapsible, but part of the frame ...
                  1. Kalmar
                    Kalmar 2 March 2021 10: 10
                    -1
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Where? The upper part of the forend is just a pad without any "tubes".

                    No, there is a tube inside. The "stem" of the shutter enters it. There are even handicraft and factory pipes with an additional cocking handle on the left side.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 2 March 2021 10: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Kalmar
                      No, there is a tube inside.

                      There was a gas tube .. and this is just a guide, just like the "gas rod" is the same guide.
                      1. Kalmar
                        Kalmar 2 March 2021 10: 14
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        There was a gas tube .. and this is just a guide, just like the "gas rod" is the same guide.

                        Technologically, this is a gas pipe from AKSU, it seems. It's just that now there are no vent holes in the barrel, so yes, de facto, it performs more decorative functions.
                      2. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 2 March 2021 10: 20
                        -1
                        Quote: Kalmar
                        Technologically, this is a gas pipe from AKSU

                        Technologically, there is nothing there .. Look again at your photo .. The cocking handle walks along the cutout of the receiver cover.
                      3. Kalmar
                        Kalmar 2 March 2021 10: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Look again at your photo .. The cocking handle goes along the cutout of the receiver cover.

                        I will reformulate once again: the garbage above the barrel is the ersatz of the gas outlet pipe. I think it is made on the same machines as the tubes for AKSU. The shape and attachments are similar. Another thing is that the gases are no longer removed, therefore this pseudo-tube serves exclusively as a guide for the pseudo-valve stem. Well, for beauty. So ok?
                      4. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 2 March 2021 10: 32
                        -3
                        Quote: Kalmar
                        I will reformulate once again: the garbage above the barrel is the ersatz of the gas outlet pipe.

                        There is no tube there - the piston-guide goes around the ring and is simply covered by the forend ...
                      5. 4thParasinok
                        4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 24
                        0
                        he's on his own wave, you can't explain anything ...
          2. Kalmar
            Kalmar 2 March 2021 10: 13
            -1
            The picture did not load something:
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 2 March 2021 10: 14
              -1
              Quote: Kalmar
              The picture did not load something:

              And I had ... at the beginning ..
  • Per se.
    Per se. 2 March 2021 07: 33
    -1
    Quote: Divan-batyr
    A number of iconic submachine guns chambered for a pistol cartridge have more modest body dimensions.
    What is the same German "Heckler and Koch" has a more modest size in front of the PPK -20?

    The practice of using a spent base is justified, the Colt SMG is an example of this, instead of an intermediate pistol cartridge.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 2 March 2021 08: 38
      +1
      Quote: Per se.
      The practice of using a spent base is justified, the Colt SMG is an example of this, instead of an intermediate pistol cartridge.
      What nonsense, the only decent example of the MP-5, and then only because there was originally a semi-free bolt used, quite suitable for a pistol cartridge, but in fact the PPK is that the MP-5 is archaic.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 2 March 2021 08: 50
        0
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        in fact that the PPK is that the MP-5 is archaic

        This is probably even more true.

        But you need to remember when the MP-5 was created and when the "new submachine gun" PPK-20 yes

        For reference: - MP-5 was developed in 1964, and PPK-20 ................................. .........................
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 2 March 2021 09: 00
          +3
          Quote: Insurgent
          For reference: - MP-5 was developed in 1964, and PPK-20 ....
          Yes, it’s a known thing, but it’s even worse for the PPK-20.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 2 March 2021 09: 08
            0
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            Yes, it’s a known thing, but it’s even worse for the PPK-20.


            That is what I meant yes in quotation marks "new submachine gun".
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 2 March 2021 10: 38
              0
              Quote: Insurgent
              That, and meant yes, taking in quotes "new submachine gun".

              Over 20 years old and still new winked
              1. 4thParasinok
                4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 29
                0
                Yes, essentially new. And in the MP5, each modification was a new PP. You have to look shirsh, shirsh, and sometimes you also have to take off your blinders.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 15 March 2021 18: 51
                  0
                  Quote: 4-th Paradise
                  And at the MP5, each modification was a new PP

                  They learned this from the automakers) ... a new bumper - a new model ..
      2. Per se.
        Per se. 2 March 2021 10: 07
        0
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        but in fact that the PPK is that the MP-5 is archaic.
        By and large, the main "archaic" is gunpowder itself, invented many centuries ago, and the very physical principle of throwing a bullet does not change in this.
        Why is the Kalash bad, which is simpler and more reliable than it is difficult to come up with, and which in one way or another is copied (borrowed) in many countries, and by many arms companies? Reality is not "Counter-Strike", and not even a clean shooting range, where newfangled show-off does not affect life. Specialists have their own requirements, their weapons have their own niche, you need to understand that there is and will be a niche for all weapons based on Kalashnikov.

        What we have a real problem with is the quality of the primers and gunpowder. Here, give good cartridges, and the same ancient "Kalash" will give odds to many much younger models.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 2 March 2021 10: 35
          +1
          Quote: Per se.
          Why is the Kalash bad, which is simpler and more reliable than it is difficult to come up with, and which in one way or another is copied (borrowed) in many countries, and by many arms companies? Reality is not "Counter-Strike", and not even a clean shooting gallery, where newfangled show-off does not affect life
          You don't seem to see the difference between the gas-operated automatics, the basis of the Kalash's reliability, and the free shutter, the PPK is no longer a Kalash, but an exotic overweight animal for collectors.
          Quote: Per se.
          Here, give good cartridges, and the same ancient "Kalash" will give odds to many much younger models.
          It is clear that the machine gun, that the submachine gun are all the same for you.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 2 March 2021 12: 18
            -6
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            You don't seem to see the difference between gas-operated automation, the basis of the Kalash's reliability, and a free shutter
            Why, I see the difference. Such submachine guns as PPSh and PPS had a free bolt, the free bolt has its drawbacks. PPK-20 uses the same basis of Kalashnikov's reliability - gas-operated automation.
            If everything is clear and understandable for you, that for me "everything is one", this is your business, be healthy.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 2 March 2021 12: 56
              +3
              Quote: Per se.
              PPK-20 uses the same basis of Kalashnikov's reliability - gas-operated automation.

              V. M. Kalashnikov in the know?
              1. Per se.
                Per se. 2 March 2021 13: 14
                +1
                Quote: mat-vey
                V. M. Kalashnikov in the know?
                My jamb, sorry.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 4 March 2021 04: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Per se.
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  V. M. Kalashnikov in the know?
                  My jamb, sorry.

                  And in general, how do you imagine the work of automation with the removal of part of the powder gases from the bore with a 9 × 19 mm Parabellum pistol cartridge?
                  1. Per se.
                    Per se. 4 March 2021 13: 22
                    0
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    with a pistol cartridge 9 × 19 mm Parabellum?
                    I already answered for Vladimir that I had no idea. I was wrong about the PPS-20 (automatic), the article was about him, and the conversation came down to the fact that the weapon is not very good. I have my own attitude to the "Kalash", but I did not deal directly with submachine guns. It was possible to calmly talk, explain, without mockery. But no, you can't ...

                    For cartridge 9x19 Parabellum. There is such a submachine gun SIG-Sauer MPX, which implements gas-operated automation, with a short stroke of the gas piston located above the barrel. One can argue about the pros or cons of its "modularity", but in fact there is a 9x19 with gas-operated automation, that is, there were those who present such a scheme and even have implemented it.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 March 2021 13: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Per se.
                      It was possible to calmly talk, explain, without mockery. But no, you can't ...

                      Can you listen to it right away?
                      Quote: Per se.
                      that is, there are those who present such a scheme and even have implemented it.

                      There is no "AK scheme" and nothing is heard about reliability ..
                    2. Per se.
                      Per se. 4 March 2021 14: 17
                      0
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      There is no "AK scheme"
                      The question was about the pistol cartridge. It is possible to make a gas outlet automation. Okay, Matvey, I hope for the future, in terms of both listening and speaking, I'll start with myself.
                    3. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 4 March 2021 14: 22
                      0
                      Quote: Per se.
                      It is possible to make a gas outlet automation.

                      Of course it is possible - only the question of reliability and reliability will not be in the last place.
                    4. 4thParasinok
                      4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 33
                      0
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Of course it is possible - only the question of reliability and reliability will not be in the last place

                      The SIG-Sauer MPX turned out to be quite reliable for its tasks. It is not intended for a trench, but for the police special forces.
                    5. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 15 March 2021 18: 48
                      0
                      Quote: 4-th Paradise
                      The SIG-Sauer MPX turned out to be quite reliable for its tasks. It is not intended for a trench, but for the police special forces.

                      Well, right there they compare with AK ... And the requirements for the quality of cartridges are also increasing ... All the same, the loss of part of the energy of a shot for a pistol cartridge is more noticeable ...
                    6. 4thParasinok
                      4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 56
                      -1
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Well, right there they compare with AK

                      actually not with AKA, but with a free shutter. And if you think one thing and write another ... Well then, you are your own wooden Buratino. Learn to correctly formulate a thought, otherwise no one understands you.
                    7. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 15 March 2021 18: 59
                      0
                      Quote: 4-th Paradise
                      actually not with AKa, but with a free shutter.

                      Quote: Divan-batyr
                      It is clear that the Kalashnikov scheme was used, but with a pistol cartridge
                    8. 4thParasinok
                      4thParasinok 16 March 2021 12: 03
                      0
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      There is no "AK scheme" and nothing is heard about reliability ..

                      how do you like it?
                    9. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 16 March 2021 12: 10
                      0
                      Is a short move a "Kalashnikov scheme"? Although something about what is here under the "AK scheme" is understood so clearly and did not sound.
                    10. 4thParasinok
                      4thParasinok 16 March 2021 14: 45
                      0
                      The PPK-20 uses a BASE from AK. Namely, the trigger and receiver, the barrel mount and a bunch of other details - in fact, 90 - 95% of the AK. But locking the shutter by turning the shutter and the gas outlet are absent. People in a hurry or unknowingly confuse BASE and SCHEME from AK. that's all.
                    11. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 17 March 2021 05: 45
                      0
                      Quote: 4-th Paradise
                      essentially 90 - 95% of AK

                      Why not 105%?
                      Quote: 4-th Paradise
                      People in a hurry or unknowingly confuse BASE and SCHEME from AK. that's all.

                      Explain to the people ...
          2. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok 16 March 2021 12: 08
            0
            Quote: mat-vey
            All the same, the loss of part of the energy of a shot for a pistol cartridge is more noticeable ...

            but the bolt is 3 times lighter and the receiver is completely closed, so dirt practically does not get into. I saw a video where Sieg was thrust into a mud puddle and then shot. wink
          3. mat-vey
            mat-vey 16 March 2021 12: 14
            0
            Quote: 4-th Paradise
            It is not intended for a trench, but for the police special forces.

            Not my words ...
          4. 4thParasinok
            4thParasinok 16 March 2021 14: 31
            0
            and according to your special forces do not have to be in the mud? Do they only run on the parquet floor? It's just one thing to sit in the mud for a month and not be able to clean the weapon after each shooting, and another thing when there is an opportunity after the assignment to return to the clean barracks and there on the weapon table to calmly do the cleaning.
            Sieg apply the advantages of the Stone and SCS systems. A short stroke of the gas piston was taken from the SCS, as a result of which the powder gases stopped entering the receiver. Well, for a light shutter, a smaller volume of powder gases is needed than for AK.
            shorter, you have to think, shorter ...
          5. mat-vey
            mat-vey 17 March 2021 05: 42
            0
            Quote: 4-th Paradise
            as a result of which the powder gases ceased to enter the receiver.

            and the barrel was purged ...
            Quote: mat-vey
            It's not meant for a trench

            Quote: 4-th Paradise
            and according to your special forces do not have to be in the mud?

            What's the difference? Is there mud in the trench of the wrong system?
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 3 March 2021 16: 35
    0
    Quote: Per se.
    PPK-20 uses the same basis of Kalashnikov's reliability - gas-operated automation.
    Yes, but it was pathos ... And how it ended.
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 4 March 2021 08: 25
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Yes, but it was pathos ...
      Yes, okay, what's the pathos then? No need, Vladimir, to take everything at your own expense. Isn't gunpowder and primers a problem, a problem. Is the AK a bad machine gun? Yes, it was created a long time ago, but the scheme is simple and reliable. My mistake, I sincerely believed that the PPK-20 used a gas outlet scheme, that's my whole sin. By the way, I was not the only one who was so delusional.
      To the words of Matvey ( mat-vey),

      "And in general, how do you imagine the work of automation with the removal of part of the powder gases from the bore with a 9 × 19 mm Parabellum pistol cartridge?"
      I can’t imagine, I’m not a gunsmith designer, and I didn’t think about it, proceeded from the fact that they used the scheme in some way, outwardly the weapon differs little from the same AKSU-74. Unfortunately, I did not think that the free shutter was used, I did not know.

      In general, comments are the personal opinion of everyone who is interested in the topic. I am not writing for ratings, and not in terms of self-affirmation at the expense of others.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 4 March 2021 08: 35
        +1
        Quote: Per se.
        Yes, okay, what's the pathos then?


        Quote: Per se.
        By and large, the main "archaic" is gunpowder itself, invented many centuries ago, and the very physical principle of throwing a bullet does not change in this.
        Why is the Kalash bad, which is simpler and more reliable than it is difficult to come up with, and which in one way or another is copied (borrowed) in many countries, and by many arms companies? Reality is not "Counter-Strike", and not even a clean shooting range, where newfangled show-off does not affect life. ...
        ... Here, give good cartridges, and the same ancient "Kalash" will give odds to many much younger models.

        Paphos in paphos

        Quote: Per se.
        Unfortunately, I did not think that the free shutter was used, I did not know.
        So reading the article first would not hurt.
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 4 March 2021 09: 22
          -2
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          So reading the article first would not hurt.
          I read the article, looked at materials on the PPK-20 on other sites. The article does not mention the topic of the operation of the PPK-20 automation. It was noted
          During the development work on the creation of a new model of small arms, the serially produced in Izhevsk submachine gun "Vityaz-SN" was taken as a basis.

          Submachine gun "Vityaz-SN" (as opposed to the usual "Vityaz") was based on the AK-105 assault rifle model.
          In AK-105, the removal of powder gases.

          About "pathos on pathos", if you hurt the shooting gallery and computer shooters, I'm sorry. I expressed my opinion, no more. There are those with whom it is interesting and pleasant to communicate, conduct a dialogue, learn new things, share something of their own.
          At least I will try to be such a person, but people are different, there are incompatible ones, it seems to us it is better to be "in different tanks". Thanks for attention.
  • Civil
    Civil 2 March 2021 10: 02
    +2
    Quote: Divan-batyr
    It is clear that the Kalashnikov scheme was used, but for a pistol cartridge, is there a need for such a bulky receiver, borrowed from the AK, practically in the "as is" format?

    HK mp5 is also reworked from HK G3.
  • would
    would 2 March 2021 10: 58
    +1
    There is no need, but there is unification. The QC was given a specific task that clearly included the issues of cost and unification, they completed it.

    I am sure that if the order is different, then QC will fulfill it. True, I'm not sure about the quality of the execution, but that's another question.
  • Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 2 March 2021 19: 48
    0
    Quote: Divan-batyr
    A number of iconic submachine guns chambered for a pistol cartridge have more modest body dimensions.

    For example, our OTs-39 (existed under the caliber 7,62x25 and 9x19) with a weight of 1,8 kg.

    1. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 50
      +1
      Quote: Bad_gr
      For example, our OTs-39 (existed under the caliber 7,62x25 and 9x19) with a weight of 1,8 kg.

      finger in ****. There, the real rate of hitting a chest target is less than 100 meters when firing a single cartridge from a TT.

      For a start, look at the design - the lack of the necessary rigidity of the receiver, the rear sight is attached directly to the receiver cover, the complex bolt and, most importantly, the small weight of the PP, and this is a large spread when firing bursts.
      This is a fiasco bro ...
  • 4thParasinok
    4thParasinok 15 March 2021 18: 14
    +1
    you do not compare the pictures where the PP separately, but the performance characteristics. And then you will be very surprised to learn the true dimensions of the MP5. And do not confuse heavy (PPK-20 and MP5) and light PP. The latter are designed for shooting no more than 50 m (or even only 20), and more than 100 meters, and even single shots.
    Quote: Divan-batyr
    It is clear that the Kalashnikov scheme is used

    there was a free shutter, at least before, and not a Kalashnikov scheme. From the Kalashnikov only the frame and the lowering.
  • Owl
    Owl 2 March 2021 06: 30
    +2
    Manufacturability can justify the use of the receiver, trigger and other mechanisms from the Kalashnikov assault rifle, but why, again, in order to reduce the cost of production, they used a non-separable muffler, with recommendations on the topic: "rinse in fuels and lubricants with heavy pollution." And for a submachine gun, it would be correct to use diopter sighting devices, like the AK-12 and AK-15, the diopter ring on the receiver but with a larger diameter than the machine guns.
    1. Sofa batyr
      Sofa batyr 2 March 2021 08: 05
      +5
      Quote: Eagle Owl
      Manufacturability can justify the use of the receiver, trigger and other mechanisms from the Kalashnikov assault rifle


      Is the new machine AM (B) -17 made according to the Dragunov scheme, some of the structural elements of which are generally made of plastics, less technological?
      Why shouldn't the Kalashnikov concern try to create a PCB based on it?

      The base, which, among other things, is free from some of the flaws inherent in the AK design (in its traditional design, numerous alterations are not counted) ...
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 2 March 2021 11: 45
        -1
        Quote: Divan-batyr
        Is the new automatic machine AM (B) -17 ... less technological?
        Why shouldn't the Kalashnikov concern try to create a PCB based on it?

        Duc is not yet in production of any AM-17.
        And "Kalash" and "Knights" - are. As they say, from goodness - they do not seek goodness.
        This is just another modernization of the Vityaz.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 2 March 2021 14: 35
          +1
          Quote: psiho117
          Duc is not yet in production of any AM-17.


          How does it interfere with OCD?

          Quote: psiho117
          "Kalash" and "Knights" - are. As they say, from goodness - they do not seek goodness.
          This is just another modernization of the Vityaz.


          Someone, either you or the concern (they don't call it modernization there), are mistaken:

          Впервые new Russian submachine gun PPK-20, developed by the Kalashnikov group of companies, was presented to the general public in 2020 as part of the Army-2020 international forum. When performing development work on the creation of a new model of small arms, the serially produced in Izhevsk submachine gun "Vityaz-SN" was taken as a basis.

          The Vityaz-SN submachine gun (unlike the usual Vityaz) was based on the AK-105 assault rifle model.
          1. psiho117
            psiho117 2 March 2021 16: 27
            -1
            Quote: Insurgent
            Someone, either you or the concern (they don't call it modernization there), are mistaken:

            Concern, of course. And not mistaken, but once again wishful thinking.
            And the phrase "Has no analogs" in the press release was not enough.
            How does it interfere with OCD?
            In general, is it necessary?
            The path of developing a police PP based on a machine gun - I consider it initially a dead end, even if there were several successful examples in history.
      2. would
        would 4 March 2021 15: 11
        +1
        Why shouldn't the Kalashnikov concern try to create a PCB based on it?


        To begin with, the AM-17 has not even completed state tests, it has not been adopted for service. And this means that there is a possibility that it will be required to be finalized, that is, the very "base" will change. What has essentially already happened

        The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation proposed to the Kalashnikov concern to modify the AM-17 assault rifle in order to equip military pilots.

        "It is necessary to work on the weight characteristics and dimensions," Shoigu said.
        In turn, the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces, General of the Army Valery Gerasimov, added that the machine gun must still undergo state tests.


        So in order to make a PP based on AM-17, it is necessary that this basis be adopted. And after that you need to get an order from the Ministry of Internal Affairs / FSB / Ministry of Defense for such a project. And there may not be such an order, because high officials may decide that they have Vityaz-SN and there is no point in changing it, and such a decision will have good reasons.

        And without an order, the costs of such a project will not pay off. We are not in the United States, you cannot sell PP to civilians in market volumes.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 2 March 2021 09: 55
      0
      Quote: Eagle Owl
      but why, again, in order to reduce the cost of production, they used a non-separable muffler

      Well, you yourself answered: for the sake of reducing the cost) Plus, non-separability affects the total resource and prepares the way for orders for new mufflers in the future;)

      Quote: Eagle Owl
      And for a submachine gun, it would be correct to apply diopter sights

      I don't think this is important: the PPK is focused on police use, collimators and other optics can be used there without any problems. Mechanical sight - rather "just in case".
      1. Owl
        Owl 2 March 2021 12: 02
        0
        More than 20 years ago, I took part in competitions in practical police shooting, I first used the MP-5, at short distances, a large diopter made it possible to quickly produce aimed shots, if the shooter had to switch to a "reserve" sight due to a collimator failure, then it was rubbish , but the task must be completed. As for the non-separable silencer, since 1986 I have been taught to keep the weapon clean, the UTG (universal tactical silencer) product is collapsible (it became possible to insert an obturator), and if dirt falls from the silencer into the barrel of the weapon, it jars me.
  • VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
    VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK 2 March 2021 06: 42
    -1
    Nobody needs this weapon in this form! There is no special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs! The military is generally in mourning from him! Bulky, with low penetration! We can't cops and need something similar, but compact and discreet to wear! Yes, and a punchy action is needed! Do not scratch the same car body! If a cop or a military man does not have enough 3 rounds to hit the target, then 30 will not be enough for him! It was during the Second World War that the soldiers went on the attack, and the cops needed a shower pool, but with low penetrating power?
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 2 March 2021 07: 44
      +7
      Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
      This weapon is not needed in this form by anyone! ..... Bulky, with low penetration!

      What do you know about the needs of a police officer when removing a criminal defendant from an apartment in an apartment building? There you need slightly different characteristics for the cartridge and weapon than what you think is important. The enemy must sometimes not be killed, but blinded and stunned with a burst. At the same time, it is important not to damage anyone in the neighboring apartment, so that the rebound is minimal, meaning not very powerful partitions between the rooms. This is not "the capture of Berlin", where the war will "write off" all the incidental victims. And perhaps some excess weight of the PPK stabilizes it during automatic firing, which is also important when firing in a confined space with a minimum permissible bullet expansion sector. So, probably, one should not be so categorical in making an assessment of the PPK.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 2 March 2021 09: 58
      +4
      Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK
      We can’t the cops and need something similar, but compact and discreet to wear!

      Forgive me, but why would any conditional OMON / SOBR officer need stealth in wearing? The presence of an armor and a helmet with a visor on such a hoplite already hints at something (even to an untrained viewer), so the PP can not be hidden)) Otherwise, it is quite a compact and convenient weapon for close combat indoors, which is a fairly typical option use for police units.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 2 March 2021 12: 39
        0
        The tasks are different. Not always wearing a helmet with a visor.
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 2 March 2021 13: 39
          +1
          Quote: carstorm 11
          The tasks are different. Not always wearing a helmet with a visor.

          I do not argue. Somewhere stealth and compactness are needed - there already other weapons will be used.
    3. would
      would 2 March 2021 11: 00
      +1
      Nobody needs this weapon in this form! There is no special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs!


      However, it is these special forces that are the main users, and one of them acted as the customer. That speaks about the necessity and assessment of this weapon. Moreover, it is worth noting that the special forces have the right to choose, and if the Vityaz were not needed, he would simply gather dust in the gun.
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 2 March 2021 09: 37
    -5
    Nice car.
    I just want to pick up and cosplay a scene from "Brother 2" - break into an office, and put everyone who will jump out to meet.
    Although in such a case "Bizon" with auger is more handy.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 2 March 2021 13: 41
      +3
      Quote: Narak-zempo
      I just want to pick up and cosplay a scene from "Brother 2" - break into an office, and put everyone who will jump out to meet.

      Hope you don't have a gun permit)
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 2 March 2021 14: 22
        0
        Quote: Kalmar
        Hope you don't have a gun permit)

        I bought it.
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 2 March 2021 16: 37
          +1
          Quote: Narak-zempo
          I just want to pick up and cosplay a scene from "Brother 2" - break into an office, and put everyone who will jump out to meet.

          Quote: Kalmar
          Hope you don't have a gun permit)

          Quote: Narak-zempo
          I bought it.


          А brain ?
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 2 March 2021 19: 47
            0
            Quote: Insurgent
            And the brains?

            Why brains when there is a gun? request
  • psiho117
    psiho117 2 March 2021 11: 41
    0
    Funny garbage: when I saw the name, I thought it was a Vityaz-type PP, but based on the AK-12 (instead of the AK-105).
    But no, it's still the same "Vityaz", on the same base, under the same cartridge, only the handle and butt were changed.
    So what the hell did you give it a new name ?!
    This pulls the maximum for "Vityaz-2" or "Vityaz-SNM", but not weapons with the assignment of a new index. If you wanted to perpetuate someone's memory - and for this you need to select a landmark project, such as a new machine gun.
    They wanted the best, but it turned out as always.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Abram Ivanovich
    Abram Ivanovich 2 March 2021 13: 08
    +4
    A completely modern design. For the early sixties.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 4 March 2021 08: 41
      +1
      Modern designs have changed only with the body kit.
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 2 March 2021 20: 27
    0
    For the Army, AM-17 is better. There is a full-fledged cartridge and compactness. It seems that in that year gr. Shoigu proposed to work out the option of supplying them for the pilots.
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 2 March 2021 20: 50
    +2
    What a news! This is a breakthrough! And I, unwise, have been shooting for a couple of years in a shooting range from the "Saiga-9" carbine, which differs only in the length of the barrel. The same scheme, the same progenitor, the same appearance, except for the butt. Only the barrel is 233mm, and "saigas" all 500, because the law "On weapons"
  • t-12
    t-12 2 March 2021 21: 04
    -1
    This is what you need. Bullpup (reduced in size). Fire switch on both sides (convenient even for left-handers). The casings are ejected at an angle (forward). Fast change of stores. And a bunch of little things.

    1. t-12
      t-12 2 March 2021 21: 05
      0
      And "Kalashnikov" lives somewhere in the 1960s or 1970s.
  • Dimide
    Dimide 2 March 2021 21: 38
    -1
    3,65 kg relatively light PP?
    For example MP7 from HC empty 1,8 kg, equipped with 2,2 kg
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 4 March 2021 08: 40
    -1
    Why not make PP for other calibers? There are powerful 9x21mm and 7,62x25mm and .45 ........ they will completely replace the AKSU
  • Azimuth
    Azimuth 8 March 2021 21: 55
    -1
    Omno ... A private office, the North American market is covered by sanctions, something more or less high-quality cannot be supplied there, throwing substandard and marriage on the domestic market for us. And we, too, are spoiled by the same Eastern European and Turkish weapons, and Omno Kalashnikovskoe (Izhmashevskoe or Izhmekhovskoe) do not want to hold in our hands, and there is no capacious market in the country.
    What to do? That's right, knock on the udder with a hungry calf, and suck budget money offering such freaks.
    The log is both more beautiful and more ergonomic.

    It has already been 30 years since the USSR collapsed, at least something our woodpeckers gunsmiths Izhmash, Izhmeh, Vyatskie Polyany, TOZ were able to create a new and sensible for example for hunters? Not. And this despite the fact that they had a base and experience, personnel.

    A couple of small private traders have at least saved the situation now, but all of them rely on the budget and they all rivet and rivet Kalash, which, although good for its time, is nowhere, and not in an arc.
    1. Alexfly
      Alexfly 11 March 2021 17: 50
      0
      Mitrich, why should they invent something? If military ammunition with deliberately inappropriate, underestimated stopping and shock characteristics is used for hunting ... Sculpt yourself a Kalash or saw through from warehouses ...
      In many countries, even military caliber is not used for such purposes .. one word - business for business ...
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 11 March 2021 17: 44
    0
    And weakly to mumble under the 9mm Mauser export cartridge?
  • storm
    storm April 7 2021 07: 50
    +2
    If a pistol for spetsnaz with a caliber of 9 * 21, then why a machine gun 9 * 19 ???
    Why not make a set of weapons for special forces pistol + submachine gun for a single cartridge 9 * 21?
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly April 10 2021 18: 11
    0
    Will this product be made in caliber 7,62x25? I would take it for "hunting" ...