Military Review

Such a complex matter is the memory of a monument

231
What is happening now in Moscow makes you think very much. Precisely because we are talking about monuments. That is, about memory. About what (or on whom) generations of future citizens will be brought up. After all, in fact, any monument is like a link to Wikipedia. Or something else, but it really provokes thinking about the question "why?" Why is he standing here. And to whom. And for what merits.




In general, it is a very useful load on the monument, as an element of the historical past.

And here we have Moscow, Lubyanskaya Square. And the trace that remained from the monument to F.E.Dzerzhinsky. And dancing with tambourines around him.



In general, of course, we, unlike the Ukrainians and other "Central Europeans", are not at war with monuments and we condemn this vandalism. True, the monuments themselves began to be brought down much earlier than the same Ukrainians. I am already silent about Europe, they have just begun.

One of the first "messengers of democracy" was the monument to Dzerzhinsky, who tried to overthrow exactly on August 22, 1991. Thank God, they didn’t dump (although they could), the deputies dissuaded. When the monument fell, it could really damage the metro structure. So the frightened Moscow government quickly took the monument to Muzeon. Well, at least so ...

Such a complex matter is the memory of a monument


And you can still remember with what dashing passion they were piling up monuments to Stalin all over the country. Long before the "dashing nineties". The communists from that very "well-behaved USSR" were firing.

In general, we taught everyone how to handle monuments. Now, however, we are indignant when another falls in Europe-Ukraine, but alas. Lessons learned excellently.

But back to Dzerzhinsky.

In general, I will probably express the opinion of many, not only former KGB officers and the current FSB, that on the whole Felix Edmundovich was removed for nothing. What a liberal howls is not even from the devil, it is from a jackal. Ah, Dzerzhinsky stood at the origins of the VChK ... Ah, the VChK did a bloody deed, shot everyone in a row ... And stuff like that.

Yes, you show me at least one such education, which gave flowers. "Siguranza"? "Shabak"? NSA? Maybe the Abwehr? Or the Gestapo?

And excuse me, but the Cheka officers were shooting at the opponents of the existing government. Which, by the way, in the conditions of those years responded with complete reciprocity from the same "Mauser" and "Nagans".

So to talk about whether the "poor and unfortunate" intelligence agents of the whole world, hanging out in the RSFSR of that time, as well as all sorts of former soldiers of Kolchak, Wrangel, Krasnov, Shkuro, Yudenich, who could not calm down in time and stand on peaceful rails, you can. But absolutely unnecessary.

So Dzerzhinsky quite naturally stood in the form of a monument near the institution he created. Moreover, he created it not for some personal ambition, but in accordance with the decision of the highest authority at that time.
By the way, they wanted to return the monument to its place for a long time. Since 2002, the first initiator was Luzhkov. The last - in 2021, a group of comrades represented by Dmitry Puchkov, Alexander Prokhanov, Dmitry Lekukh, Sergey Aksyonov and other worthy personalities.

However, it does not work.

And here's an interesting situation.

If you need to erect a monument to some dubious personality such as Solzhenitsyn, Kolchak, Mannerheim, White Czechs and Italian fascists - no problem here. That is, quietly, without asking anyone, a "monument" is taken and erected. And then it opens with the participation of high-ranking officials.



True, then for some reason from the people arrives. How Mannerheim arrived. But this, of course, is due to the lack of education among the current fake patriots. Because real patriots will just carry flowers to the executioner Mannerheim or to the Italian fascists in the Voronezh and Belgorod regions.

And the fake ones will smash their foreheads in an attempt to remove this obscenity from the face of the Russian earth.

And they will not succeed at it by 146%. Simply because everything is not so simple. And you can't just remove the "monument".

But if you want to restore justice, then problems begin. You can't just take it and restore it. Wrong country.

That is, it turns out strange: the Italian fascists can be bet. Mannerheim can. Belochekham can. That is, to those who killed our people at different times, monuments can be easily erected. But to bring back Dzerzhinsky, who just fought with those who did not come to us with goodness - he cannot be.

And again such an ugly comparison. Who insisted on removing the monument to the founder of the Cheka? Here is a photo for you, please rate how much Moscow of 1991 is different from Kiev of 2014? Yes, the twins!











Exactly the same maydanutye in Moscow jumped around the monument to Dzerzhinsky. In the same way, but having degraded to their level, monuments were demolished in Kiev by their descendants of spiritual and spiritual impoverishment.

What unites is the utter lawlessness in terms of the destruction of monuments.

That is why the monument to Dzerzhinsky had every right to be installed back on its pedestal. And this would be quite fair to itself both historically and legally.

Moreover, the entire Lubyanskaya Square, which bore the name of Dzerzhinsky, was designed around the monument. From which there is now a flowerbed object.

Yes, and what is bad about the monument itself, exactly as a work of art? The ceretelization of Moscow brought to the streets many, so to speak, monuments of controversial and dubious content. In the provinces it is even worse, one "horse with ..." and the mutant Alenka in the Voronezh region are worth something. And in others, too, I think, there will be their "alenki".



And here, excuse me, Vuchetich. And who is Vuchetich? And this is "Motherland". This is the "Soldier-Liberator" in Treptower Park. This is "Motherland" in Kiev. There are many other monuments, but this is Vuchetich!


Any work of Evgeny Viktorovich is a masterpiece. These are not modern freaks from sculpture, this is work with a capital letter.

But you can't. It's Iron Felix. Therefore, it is impossible to simply take and restore the monument. Yes, and somehow scary. Dzerzhinsky is not only the Cheka, by the way. This includes the Supreme Council of the National Economy, the People's Commissariat of Railways, the army, and the fight against street children. That is, work. And also with a capital letter. And death at work. From nervous and physical exhaustion.

Well, how can such a person in modern Russia be on a pedestal?

And so the Moscow authorities came up with a smart move: let's hold a vote for Muscovites! We honored Mannerheim and Solzhenitsyn with monuments without asking, but as for Dzerzhinsky, we must definitely ask the people's opinion. What if someone is against it?

True, this vote had no legal value, and was intended solely for informational purposes. That is, how Muscovites would vote, nobody worried at all.

But even here modern Russian city governors have managed to do it ... As usual. Because the voting was not conducted on the monument to Dzerzhinsky, whether to restore it or not, but on the topic "to whom to erect the monument." And suddenly another one appeared historical character - Prince Alexander Nevsky.

Logic zero. Lubyanka and Nevsky - where are they? It's the same as always. What relation Alexander Nevsky had to the complex of buildings on the Lubyanka, what he had to do with Moscow - well, it is completely unclear.

It is only clear that it was necessary to urgently plug the hole and not let Dzerzhinsky back.

And in the end, having played enough with democracy, Sobyanin spoke out and said: enough! The erection of monuments is a business of the city, and there is nothing to do with disgrace with voting. Not according to the Constitution - that's why there is no point in sticking your voices wherever you get!

And the games of democracy seem to be over. Sobyanin decided that the Lubyanka would remain the same. The monument, it turns out, should not split the people ...

However, I am personally familiar with many, and I myself am one of those to whom the monument to Boris Yeltsin splits the brain. Again, the Yeltsin Center - it only unites. And the monuments to the Italian fascists in Rossosh and Livenki - they unite. The only question is who and with whom.

But the monument to Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky - yes, he splits. The boat rocks. It makes you think, because Dzerzhinsky only worked for the good of the country to which he swore allegiance. In contrast to those who today "decorate" our lives with monuments to such uniting personalities as Yeltsin and Solzhenitsyn.


Very sorry. And it is very happy that there are people in the country who are initiators of the return. Huge human gratitude to Dmitry Puchkov, Igor Molotov, Alexander Prokhanov, Sergei Aksenov, Sergei Lipovy and all the "Officers of Russia".

It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka. It is clear that officials will never agree to this. After all, this is a symbol. A man who actually fought all his life against such pests. And now they are taking revenge on him.

A logical result. Like many things in our country.
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  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 05: 57
    +18
    Yesterday I heard an interesting phrase - “any monument will always stand with someone's“ butt ”- the fountain is“ facing ”everyone!
    My personal opinion is easier to destroy and break than to create and build.
    Well, somewhere like that, all a good day, and most importantly patience to hear each other.
    Regards, Kote!
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 28 February 2021 06: 06
      +25
      Then it is necessary, as Zadornov suggested: to make monuments with a twisting head, so that it would be easier to change for the sake of the political conjuncture.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 28 February 2021 10: 55
        +6
        Quote: Destiny
        Then it is necessary, as Zadornov suggested: to make monuments with a twisting head, so that it would be easier to change for the sake of the political conjuncture.

        Tsereteli did something similar.
        1. Vladimir Mashkov
          Vladimir Mashkov 28 February 2021 12: 30
          +14
          Ignoring some of the excessive pathos and emotions inherent in the author, generally I agree with both the article and the conclusions.

          I consider the decision of the authorities (not only Sobyanin!) To be both unfair and harmful. A fake short-term (otherwise “Iron Felix” would have won by all means!) A comedy played by the authorities with a commission, a competition and a survey, nothing but annoyance and disrespect for the authorities, who did this with the next popular request, cannot cause anything. I am deeply convinced that if there were honest polls, then - with all due respect to Alexander Yaroslavovich - the highly artistic monument to Felix Edmundovich would have won. I am sure that the time will come, he necessarily will stand in the same place on Dzerzhinsky Square.

          A good monument to Alexander Nevsky will find a suitable and worthy place in Moscow.
          1. volodimer
            volodimer 28 February 2021 15: 32
            +8
            A good monument to Alexander Nevsky will find a suitable and worthy place in Moscow.

            With all due respect to Alexander Yaroslavovich, there are many more significant names for the history of Moscow. And if, as a person in the history of the state, then it should be a monument like in Novgorod to the "1000th anniversary of Russia". With the expansion of the time frame (so as not to copy the Novgorod one) But then it will definitely have to put J.V. Stalin there, and the authorities will never agree to this.
            And if they "vlyapat" Nevsky in Moscow, then, for example, they will also start filming Ilyichs and Nevsky all over our immense, with officials! And I honestly doubt the current sculptors. They will put on the next G.K. Zhukov, and then you will not change.
            Well, the monument to F.E. Dzerzhinsky should take their rightful place.
            About the poll ... We have already passed: "The Name of Russia" in 2008. There, Alexander Nevsky was also pulled out so that J.V. Stalin would not win. This time they decided to repeat it again. It didn't work out.
      2. Doccor18
        Doccor18 28 February 2021 15: 19
        +7
        Quote: Destiny
        .. to do monuments with a twisting head ..

        Yeah, how many good sculptures this decision would save ...

        Contradictory figures, both Stalin and Zedong ... But the portraits of Mao still hang in China. The ruler was, did ... They found out, thought over, appreciated ... Everything. This is the history of the country.
        So why in our country they are so often trying to erase whole milestones of this history from consciousness and memory, including by demolishing monuments?
    2. samarin1969
      samarin1969 28 February 2021 06: 49
      +7
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Yesterday I heard an interesting phrase - “any monument will always stand with someone's“ butt ”- the fountain is“ facing ”everyone!
      My personal opinion is easier to destroy and break than to create and build.
      Well, somewhere like that, all a good day, and most importantly patience to hear each other.
      Regards, Kote!


      "Sow the wind, reap the storm." They began to demolish and rename 100 years ago. The only question is who Dzerzhinsky and Alexander III stood as "ass" ...
      People should be entitled to their beliefs and values. If you destroy them for this, smash the symbols, then the civil war will never end.
      1. steelmaker
        steelmaker 28 February 2021 08: 34
        -4
        And Hitler are people?
        1. ZAV69
          ZAV69 28 February 2021 10: 04
          +4
          So in Berlin there are probably those who want to stage it, and in 20-30 years they will easily begin to discuss this issue, when memory 45 leaves the blood. Although there is a possibility that by this time the Arabs will devour them from the inside.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 28 February 2021 16: 05
          -1
          Quote: steel maker
          And Hitler are people?

          Soloviev says yes.
          1. alekSASHKA-36
            alekSASHKA-36 2 March 2021 16: 14
            +1
            Well Solovyov P. will not lie!
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 28 February 2021 08: 30
      +12
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      My personal opinion is easier to destroy and break than to create and build.

      You cannot crush and break at all .. because this is a story, you may like it, you may not like it .. but this is a fact that was captured in the "granite" .. Now there is a struggle with inconvenient facts and history .. a cowardly struggle, because of feelings of fear have to fight .. and suddenly a new Dzerzhinsky will come .. then what to cut down the forest?
      this prospect does not suit the elite .. they are against ..
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 12: 34
        -3
        Quote: Svarog
        You cannot destroy and break at all ..

        It's funny to hear this maxim from a communist) But what about "to the ground, and then ..."?
        Or traded revolution for evolution?)
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 28 February 2021 15: 28
          +7
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Quote: Svarog
          You cannot destroy and break at all ..

          It's funny to hear this maxim from a communist) But what about "to the ground, and then ..."?
          Or traded revolution for evolution?)

          You can demolish what is now ... well, in fact, nothing has been built right now .. And evolution is good, but we already evolved in 17 ... and now we are degrading again ..
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 15: 49
            -6
            Quote: Svarog
            but we already evolved in 17 year.

            Seriously? Interesting insight into evolutionary processes.
            Quote: Svarog
            You can demolish what is now ... well, in fact, now nothing has been built.

            And what, dear, you propose to demolish? Everything, except for your workplace, apartment, summer residence and any other movable property? Or are you hoping to multiply all this at the expense of "demolition"? What are the party's plans? Well, apart from the primary fun of getting Felix into the historic site.
    4. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 28 February 2021 10: 29
      +3
      Good morning dear. You mentioned that a monument is always a stern to someone ... I remembered that in the years of my youth, in Kiev there was (and probably still is) such an elite district - Tsarskoe Selo. High-rise buildings, luxurious at that time. But! The most interesting thing is that the district was located, according to a local joke, in "MezhPOP'E" - on the one hand, Mother Motherland, on the other, Lesya Ukrainka! laughing
      Well, or another option - "it's good to live when the Motherland's mother turned her booty to you!")))
  2. Destiny
    Destiny 28 February 2021 05: 58
    +29
    It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka.

    It's a pity. It's an ugly story with the vote. Why was it necessary to fence in a garden if the monument was not originally going to be restored ..
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 06: 33
      +7
      Quote: Destiny
      It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka.

      It's a pity. It's an ugly story with the vote. Why was it necessary to fence in a garden if the monument was not originally going to be restored ..

      Subtly noticed - "Ugly story"!
      How many such ugly stories are there in our middle name?

      Monument to Alexander II in Nizhniye Sergi. Inaugurated in the second half of the century before last as a liberator tsar at the expense of the people. After the events of 17, the stella was demolished, but the base was used for a monument to Lenin. After the events of 1991, it was demolished too. For a long time on the site of the monument there was a square flower bed near the first school. Now she is gone.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 28 February 2021 08: 58
        +6
        The flower bed also needs to be maintained. And for this you cannot do either without a person or without a system.
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 28 February 2021 11: 42
        +3
        Inaugurated in the second half of the century before last as a liberator tsar at the expense of the people.

        Addition. Touches the common expression about people's money. Is this the same "people's money" from the redemption payments of the peasants that they had to pay in the first version until 1925? There is a suspicion that this is the usual budget money of the city. And the ransom payments to the peasants were canceled only after the well-known events of 1905.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 17: 39
          +2
          Quote: Aviator_
          Inaugurated in the second half of the century before last as a liberator tsar at the expense of the people.

          Addition. Touches the common expression about people's money. Is this the same "people's money" from the redemption payments of the peasants that they had to pay in the first version until 1925? There is a suspicion that this is the usual budget money of the city. And the ransom payments to the peasants were canceled only after the well-known events of 1905.

          Sergey - Sergi is a mining town in the Urals. Everything is simpler half of the compulsory-voluntary order was collected from the workers depending on the salary, the rest from the merchants and officials of the city.
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 28 February 2021 18: 04
            +9
            Yes, I know about this "people's money" and "temples built on people's donations." Subtracted from the salary and that's it. By the way, in a very old trilogy about Maxim, it seems, in the first part of "The Youth of Maxim", it is well shown how these donations were organized. The film of the 30s, then there were still many people who knew all this on their own skin. The only thing that is unclear is the number of minusers for my previous post - here that the followers of the Russian Orthodox Church have settled?
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 19: 40
              +1
              Quote: Aviator_
              Yes, I know about this "people's money" and "temples built on people's donations." Subtracted from the salary and that's it.

              Well, not always and everywhere. Nearby there is Kungur in which a similar monument was erected by the merchants Mencinates. By the way, surprisingly, they kept it.
              However, the Urals will rebuild the formation of monuments by various presidents. For example, having learned about the journey of Tsarevich Alexander the poor II, in two weeks they blinded an obelisk on the border of Europe and Asia. When it fell into disrepair on the initiative of the Shaitanovskih workers (today is Pervouralsk). In 2000, the old one was moved to a key, erecting a monumental structure 10 meters high. The main thing is that they did not destroy the old monument of the 20s, moving it to another place. Even if not so significant.
      3. volodimer
        volodimer 28 February 2021 15: 59
        +7
        Vladivostok. On the pedestal of the monument to Admiral V.S. Zavoyko, a monument to S. Lazo was erected.
        At 91, some demanded "urgent return." It's good that didn't happen. We remember who was there first, we remember his merits. But the second is worthy of memory, and since it has already happened, let it remain so. And under the words of Sergei Lazo, which he said to the Japanese invaders, I think that Admiral Zavoiko would have signed.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 17: 43
          +1
          Quote: volodimer
          Vladivostok. On the pedestal of the monument to Admiral V.S. Zavoyko, a monument to S. Lazo was erected.


          Your fellow countrymen had the sagacity not to break what happened! Alas, this quality was not enough for mine. What did not break the first time - broke the second!
          1. volodimer
            volodimer 28 February 2021 18: 14
            +4
            They simply did not find the original at once, and did not find the "sculptor" of the reproducer. And so, there would be another victim.
            We had a "alley of monuments": at 100-150 m: a monument-bust of A.S. Pushkin, a slab-monument to the victims of the revolution (I myself do not remember which one) and a monument-memorial to the sailors of the merchant fleet who died in World War II.
            All this fell under the bridge over the golden horn bay. I rarely go there, because only these pictures.
            Instead of a bust of Pushkin, Anikushin's creations were placed nearby ... something. The monument to the sailors closed the bridge. The victims of the revolution were reburied.



            1. volodimer
              volodimer 28 February 2021 18: 30
              +4
              And we used to have a monument to S.O. Makarov on the second most important area (out of 2) .. they moved it. Moved to the outskirts of the maritime academy to its hostels, but still it turns out out of sight. sad

    2. Pilot
      Pilot 28 February 2021 07: 36
      +19
      Quote: Destiny
      It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka.

      It's a pity. It's an ugly story with the vote. Why was it necessary to fence in a garden if the monument was not originally going to be restored ..
      This "vegetable garden" perfectly showed the number of residents of the capital, whom the state has not yet been able to process. the policy of de-Sovietization, well, and their moods .. Iron Felix personifies the Revolution and Soviet power, and it seems that the current government did not expect such a number of supporters and interrupted this test. Now again ,, work up your sleeves ,, - ,, there is no time to swing ,,
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 28 February 2021 08: 22
        -7
        Quote: Pilot
        Iron Felix, after all, personifies the Revolution and Soviet power

        He personified Soviet power, and the same power demolished him on August 22, 1991
        Photo for the article where Ilyich is removed from the pedestal - this is 2009, Zelenograd, the monument to the leader was erected at the entrance of the scientific center, the monument itself came into complete disrepair - a marriage was allowed during casting, it cannot be restored, therefore the monument itself was dragged. They promised to restore a new one (apparently the Communist Party of the Russian Federation), in short, some words.
        1. Pilot
          Pilot 28 February 2021 08: 28
          +18
          Skakuasy-Yeltsinoids in 1991 is the Soviet power ?? Or the Soviet power shedding into the bourgeoisie of the KEEPS with the gebists ?? Do not confuse God's gift with a cockerel.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 28 February 2021 08: 58
            -12%
            Quote: Pilot
            Do not confuse

            By the way, the author's comparison with Ukraine is extremely inappropriate, I mean the local monument fall.
            In our country, the majority of the population is indifferent - who is there in the form of a monument.
            Take, for example, the patriarchal Samara, the number of commemorative plaques, monuments, museums, streets and squares in honor of the leader of the world proletariat is simply off scale.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 09: 09
              +6
              Quote: bober1982
              In our country, the majority of the population is indifferent - who is there in the form of a monument.

              Essentially agree!
              Therefore, I am advocating, it is not necessary to break it - it is necessary to protect what is. We are still breaking lances on the issues of the revolution - let the descendants decide.
          2. your1970
            your1970 28 February 2021 10: 09
            +3
            Quote: Pilot
            Skakuasy-Yeltsinoids in 1991 is the Soviet power ?? Or the Soviet power shedding into the bourgeoisie of the KEEPS with the gebists ?? Do not confuse God's gift with a cockerel.

            Juridically, at the time of the demolition, the power was Soviet ... The fact that it was not capable of anything was already another matter
            And so across the country
          3. Hagen
            Hagen 28 February 2021 13: 19
            +1
            Quote: Pilot
            Do not confuse God's gift with a cockerel.

            The problem is that people are not granite creatures and often change their minds under various pretexts. Sometimes the category of those for whom the "rooster" is a sacred animal begins to surpass the fighters for the "gift of God". There is nothing surprising. It has always been that way. In order to somewhat smooth out such waves of moods of the masses, a kind of high-quality expert advice is needed, designed to study in detail the perpetuated person or event and predict the socio-political consequences of resolving the issue. Today, in almost all cases, this issue does not have a formalized algorithm for working out, it is dealt with by municipalities "as God pleases." In some cases, the people do not even bother to ask. Even in Moscow, where there is order in this direction, decisions can be made crookedly. Crookedness is also added by the fact that the media did not cover all the subtleties of the decision process, for example, on Dzerzhinsky. Who and on what basis proposed Nevsky, why exactly Nevsky, who in Mogordum supported the inclusion of Nevsky in the list? In general, the provocation is complete, but no one will most likely bear any responsibility.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 17: 49
              +1
              Quote: Hagen
              to smooth out the masses a little, some high-quality expert advice is needed,


              Why fence a vegetable garden. Direct participation in voting is much more effective than “experts”. The only events of this kind need to be formalized, to be done on a level basis, so that residents can decide what they want, and only then conduct the second stage of voting.
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 28 February 2021 19: 51
                +3
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Why fence a vegetable garden. Direct participation in voting is much more effective than “experts”.

                Experts are people, as a rule, burdened with knowledge, methods and experience. They must delve into the history of the issue and identify both positive and negative traits of the character (event), the ratio of opinions in society at the time of making a decision and predict the future. Voters are ordinary people who may not know any subtleties of the issue. So the opinion of the people must be known and guided by it, and a preliminary assessment of experts is needed to request an opinion. So, I think it will be better.
                1. Ross xnumx
                  Ross xnumx 28 February 2021 20: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Hagen
                  So the opinion of the people must be known and guided by it, and a preliminary assessment of experts is needed to request an opinion. So, I think it will be better.

                  And it's always better to ask the people. Any monument, any memorial structure must, according to the constitution, receive the approval of the holder of power by a simple referendum (let it be on a single voting day).
                  The novel again sharpened the actual problem and explained everything. There is nothing to add, just agree and put (+) for the material.
                  And one more (personal) opinion. There is no need to erect monuments like mushrooms. People simply do not think about how much it costs to maintain a monument and maintain it in proper form. It seems to me that the place where the monument was erected must be somehow connected with its prototype. Then there will be no uncomfortable questions, such as: "How did the monument to Mikhail Lomonosov end up in some district town, which during the life of the scientist did not exist?"
          4. RUSS
            RUSS 28 February 2021 16: 08
            +2
            Quote: Pilot
            Skakuasy-Yeltsinoids in 1991 is the Soviet power ?? Or the Soviet power shedding into the bourgeoisie of the KEEPS with the gebists ?? Do not confuse God's gift with a cockerel.

            Well, who demolished Stalin's monuments?
        2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 12: 35
          0
          Quote: bober1982
          Personified Soviet power

          It sucks when the repressive authorities personify power, is not it?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 28 February 2021 13: 13
            +1
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            It sucks when the repressive authorities personify power, is not it?

            Yes, I agree, as soon as the punitive authorities weaken, the authorities begin to experience serious problems.
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 February 2021 18: 00
              +2
              Quote: bober1982
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              It sucks when the repressive authorities personify power, is not it?

              Yes, I agree, as soon as the punitive authorities weaken, the authorities begin to experience serious problems.

              All in figs!
              The main thing is not to start fighting drunkenness! Then the obvious collapse of the state !!!
              Boris Godunov - distemper.
              Nicholas II is a revolution.
              Gorbachev is a coup!

              According to the monuments of the security forces - the necessity determines the time! Today I talked with an interesting person who, being a “dissident” by vocation, noted one thing in favor of Iron Felix - “He did a lot to fight homelessness. My parents were the ones who became people through orphanages ”!
              From him I learned something else. It turns out that the fountain groaned until Dzerzhinsky is intact and its figures symbolize the four main rivers of Russia (Volga, Dnieper, Don and Neva).
          2. Hagen
            Hagen 28 February 2021 13: 22
            +6
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            It sucks when the repressive authorities personify power, is not it?

            And what if the same bodies, or rather persons, restore the transport infrastructure, overcome homelessness in the shortest possible time and save the lives of hundreds of thousands of children, future citizens of the country? How "shitty" is that?
          3. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 14: 49
            +5
            Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

            It sucks when the repressive authorities personify power, is not it?

            Would it be better for them to represent a private person? As I understand it, you would have liked it better.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 14: 53
              -2
              Quote: Krasnoyarsk
              Would it be better for them to represent a private person? As I understand it, you would have liked it better.

              Yes, our organs have always been personified - Dzerzhinsky, Menzhinsky, Yagoda, Yezhov, Beria, Shchelokov, Andropov, etc.)
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 15: 19
                +4
                Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

                Yes, our organs have always been personified - Dzerzhinsky, Menzhinsky, Yagoda, Yezhov, Beria, Shchelokov, Andropov, etc.)

                Yeah. And the USSR too. Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, and so on.
                It is even impossible to measure the depth of your thought. If she was.
                1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                  Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 15: 44
                  -1
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  It is even impossible to measure the depth of your thought. If she was.

                  Dear, your thought
                  Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                  Would it be better for them to represent a private person?

                  depth also does not shine. What did you want to say?
                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 15: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    What did you want to say?

                    Just answered your "deep" thought -
                    Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    It sucks when the repressive authorities personify power, is not it?
        3. Krasnoyarsk
          Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 14: 45
          +6
          Quote: bober1982

          He personified Soviet power, and the same power demolished him on August 22, 1991

          De facto, not this one anymore. You just need to understand this and not engage in speculation.
      2. tatra
        tatra 28 February 2021 09: 34
        +6
        This vote on the site "Active Citizen" showed perfectly well that the enemies of the communists were able to zombify young people - under 18 and up to 35 years old, they voted 60-80% for Nevsky, which she does not know a damn thing about, but people over 45 years old by the majority voted for Dzerzhinsky.
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 28 February 2021 12: 55
          +5
          They apparently curtailed the voting ahead of schedule because they realized that it was becoming more difficult to wind up votes against Dzerzhinsky, and therefore, having reset the procedure, they left everything as it is - without a decision on the merits. Soon, more precisely on March 5, there will be a traditional flower-laying at the grave of J.V. Stalin. I believe that, taking into account the cunning actions of the capital's liberota demonstrated, quite a few flowers will be laid at the grave of F.E. Dzerzhinsky, which is also located there near the Kremlin wall. The bottom line is that the more the government tries to wipe out the deeds of really great state people from the memory of the people, the more the demand for such people in power and their authority in society grows.
        2. volodimer
          volodimer 28 February 2021 16: 25
          +5
          I don't think they were "zombified". Here another factor rather plays a role: the young people were told at least something about A. Nevsky at school, but absolutely nothing about Dzerzhinsky. And only the current surge gave them information: he is from the Cheka, which is the OGPU-KGB, etc. And since, as they were taught, this is a priori a system of power suppression, it means bad. After all, they do not understand what the problem of neglect is and what its scale was in the country, that it was solved by such a department. By the way, if there were Felix Edmundovich now, we would very soon stop reading the news about the young followers of aye. In those difficult times, at the head of the Cheka, He managed to snatch children from the hands of criminals and by no means exclusively by repressive methods.
        3. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 28 February 2021 16: 41
          +4
          If they also assessed literacy, it would be clear that people over 45 still have literacy, and those who are younger, it is very sad. This is especially noticeable in the reviews on the offers of tour operators on the network.
          1. volodimer
            volodimer 28 February 2021 18: 41
            +2
            Yes, here we must also remember the educational program ... Illiteracy, neglect, aye, It seems that through the efforts of modern "effective managers" we have come to the same starting positions from which Iron Felix began to work. He did it ...
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 28 February 2021 18: 51
              +7
              No matter how much the Soviet general secondary education was criticized, even the puppeteer Obraztsov sarcastically - "what kind of education Adam has - no, write - secondary", but it turned out that it was all the same, and not bad. Well, we are moving steadily towards the positions of the early twentieth century under the wise leadership of United Russia.
              1. volodimer
                volodimer 28 February 2021 19: 18
                +5
                Got it ... Why astronomy at school? Now adherents of flat earth fly into space on a trampoline, but illuminated by priests. I'm exaggerating, but we'll come to this soon. But how nobly it all began: "the child must determine his future at school", "he must receive a decent education in the chosen direction", "and one should not distract him from this with unnecessary knowledge", "they will never be useful to him anyway" ...
                The result is known: young people do not know basic things. Previously, a university student at least did not really know anything about his future profession, but he had a "knowledge base" that allowed him to "teach him and learn him", and now, he leaves the university with zero baggage. It is good if he knows something and wants to study further, but mainly: knowledge at the level of the Soviet high school. He needs to be taught anew, but at the same time the demands are cosmic.
                EG and EP will soon bring the country "to the handle".
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 28 February 2021 09: 10
      +10
      Why was the garden to fence
      Obviously hoped. that for a prince 146% will be, but not grown together.
    4. Achilles
      Achilles 28 February 2021 09: 50
      +9
      In general, the demolition of the monument to Dzerzhinsky in 91 was not legal, and one must follow from this, in December a number of figures (writers, political scientists, etc.) wrote a letter about the restoration of the monument to Dzerzhinsky, and the Moscow Public Chamber is changing the concept and essence of the issue of restoring the monument Dzerzhinsky and put a vote on the installation of two monuments to Nevsky or Dzerzhinsky. And here the question of this Moscow public chamber arises: "What does the monument to Nevsky have to do with it?"
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 12: 46
        +7
        Quote: Achilles
        "What does the monument to Nevsky have to do with it?"

        Well, the question is correct - why the hell was the prince stuck here? And why exactly him? Generally comical - was Nevsky supposed to be Cherkasov from Eisenstein's film?
    5. ZAV69
      ZAV69 28 February 2021 10: 07
      +9
      Well, why, they wanted to get the media fact that Muscovites are for a bright future, but even the administrative resources and markups were not enough for a confident victory, so Sobyanin closed the shop.
    6. for
      for 28 February 2021 11: 42
      +5
      Quote: Destiny
      It's a pity. It's an ugly story with the vote. Why was it necessary to fence in a garden if the monument was not originally going to be restored ..

      About this ugly story, no one would not have known if it were not for our "valiant" media fans to spread ..... across the country. In Moscow, probably fewer people knew about this.
      completed on 26.02.2021 voted: 319897 people

      The authorities are not interested in this fuss, it will not bring large profits not to the city budget, not to personal feed.
      In Samara, too, they are swarming to Remove Lenin, to install Tsar Alexander.
      But it was not interest that Baba Yaga was put on. And even more interesting is the future opening of a branch of the Tretyakov Gallery, even the Minister of Culture was urgently replaced, a lawyer, a lover of contemporary art and just Olga's daughter Holodets. By the way, the Minister of Construction is the son of the owner of a construction company.
    7. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 14: 41
      +2
      Quote: Destiny

      It's a pity. It's an ugly story with the vote. Why was it necessary to fence in a garden if the monument was not originally going to be restored ..

      But discord in society needs to be fueled. This is a reason to once again embroil fellow citizens. There was no other goal.
    8. Wertgan
      Wertgan 1 March 2021 10: 18
      0
      To push the patriots of Russia against each other, dividing them into "red" and "white"
  3. Ravik
    Ravik 28 February 2021 06: 25
    +19
    The one who did not deserve memory is Solzhenitsyn ...
    He offered to bomb our homeland. Scum.
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 28 February 2021 07: 09
      +26
      Just as Mannerheim did not deserve it, and the monuments to the White Czechs and other whites, the memorial steles of the fascist coalition, we did not call them anyone. They built a whole palace on public money, even though these people do not remember him with a kind word, but many can be enumerated .. But Dzerzhinsky no, you can't ..
      1. Alex_1973
        Alex_1973 28 February 2021 08: 36
        +15
        Destiny
        But Dzerzhinsky no, you can't ..
        But you can have a monument to one more scum and Nazi bedding to Ataman Krasnov. And how many people did not fight with him, and did not overcome, since the type is on a private territory. And there is not only a monument, but also a whole museum complex in which all visitors are told that everything is not so simple with those who served the Germans. So think in WHAT country do we live in ...?!
        1. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 28 February 2021 13: 04
          +5
          Quote: Alex_1973
          But you can have a monument to one more scum and Nazi bedding to Ataman Krasnov. And how many people did not fight with him, no one overcame, since the type is on a private territory.

          If I'm not mistaken, it seems like they dismantled it a couple of weeks ago.
          But in Kargopol, a real monument to Stalin was restored, which was buried in the 50s, and now it will take its place of honor. Liberota grits her teeth.
          1. Alex_1973
            Alex_1973 28 February 2021 13: 07
            +6
            Nyrobsky (Dmitry)
            If I'm not mistaken, it seems like they dismantled it a couple of weeks ago.
            Heard nothing about this, are there any details? Has the museum been closed?
            1. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 28 February 2021 13: 33
              +4
              Quote: Alex_1973
              Nyrobsky (Dmitry)
              If I am not mistaken, something like they dismantled it a couple of weeks ago.
              Heard nothing about this, are there any details? Has the museum been closed?

              I apologize, I was still mistaken about Krasnov's dismantling. hi
              As for J.V. Stalin, everything is correct

          2. RUSS
            RUSS 28 February 2021 16: 17
            -5
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            If I'm not mistaken, it seems like they dismantled it a couple of weeks ago.

            The monument to Krasnov was not dismantled.
            Quote: Nyrobsky
            But in Kargopol, a real monument to Stalin was restored, which was buried in the 50s, and now it will take its place of honor.

            The question of the monument has not yet been resolved, but the thrust for the owner and the whip is so great that it is likely that a monument will be erected.

            I would like to remind you that in 1937, by order of Stalin, Kargopollag was founded, and its administration was located in the city itself for several years. By the fall of 1938, the camp contained about 30 thousand. Mostly they were engaged in logging. In the same year, the death rate of prisoners in Kargopollag was 18,53%.
            1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 16: 54
              -2
              Quote: RUSS
              The question of the monument has not yet been resolved, but the thrust for the owner and the whip is so great that it is likely that a monument will be erected.

              With the Mamlakat girl? Of course they will. What a sweetheart. laughing
            2. Nyrobsky
              Nyrobsky 28 February 2021 17: 11
              +4
              Quote: RUSS
              The monument to Krasnov was not dismantled.

              Before your approval at 16.17, I already admitted it at 13.33.
              Quote: RUSS
              The question of the monument has not yet been resolved, but the thrust for the owner and the whip is so great that it is likely that the monument will be erected

              They will deliver. Deserved. Only this is not a craving for the owner and a whip, but a demand from society for justice, which is very lacking today.
              Quote: RUSS
              I would like to remind you that in 1937, by order of Stalin, Kargopollag was founded, and its administration was located in the city itself for several years. By the fall of 1938, the camp contained about 30 thousand. Mostly they were engaged in logging. In the same year, the death rate of prisoners in Kargopollag was 18,53%.

              Better remind about the Holodomor and the Gulag in the United States in 1932-1933. They don't write about this in Soros's textbooks and are thoroughly obliterated from history, transferring arrows exclusively to the historical past of the USSR and Russia. Come here memory refresh
              https://bulochnikov.livejournal.com/2061279.html
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 28 February 2021 22: 16
                -4
                Quote: Nyrobsky
                Better remind about the Holodomor and the Gulag in the United States in 1932-1933.

                I absolutely do not care what happened in the United States and in general about America as a whole, finish the next clichés to voice "-and they hang blacks in America."
                PS
                In Kargopollag sat the researcher of the epic and myth Eleazar Meletinsky, the philosopher Grigory Pomerants, the actress Tatyana Okunevskaya, the screenwriter Valery Frid, the orientalist Isaak Felshtinsky, the son of the army commander and future dissident Peter Yakir, the playwright Alexander Gladkov, the archimandrite John Krestyankin
              2. Obliterator
                Obliterator 3 March 2021 13: 39
                0
                Quote: Nyrobsky
                They will deliver. Deserved. Only this is not a craving for the owner and a whip, but a demand from society for justice, which is very lacking today.

                Well yes, to be fair lol... That's then the gene. the prosecutor's office this very "justice"
                mostly revised.
                1. Nyrobsky
                  Nyrobsky 3 March 2021 14: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: Obliterator
                  Quote: Nyrobsky
                  They will deliver. Deserved. Only this is not a craving for the owner and a whip, but a demand from society for justice, which is very lacking today.

                  Well yes, to be fair lol... That's then the gene. the prosecutor's office for the most part reviewed this "justice".

                  If there is a demand in society, this does not at all mean that the authorities, represented by the prosecutor's office, share this public demand. What's wrong? Do you react badly to the word "justice" itself, or do you react badly to the processes taking place in a society that has already been pulled up by liberal storytellers broadcasting from all irons about the "kgovy totalitarian" past, but at the same time profiting from the past?
                  1. Obliterator
                    Obliterator 3 March 2021 22: 41
                    0
                    Quote: Nyrobsky
                    If there is a demand in society, this does not at all mean that the authorities, represented by the prosecutor's office, share this public demand. What's wrong? Do you react badly to the word "justice" itself, or do you react badly to the processes taking place in a society that has already been pulled up by liberal storytellers broadcasting from all irons about the "kgovy totalitarian" past, but at the same time profiting from the past?

                    What does this have to do with the modern demand in society, if the rehabilitation of victims of political repression gene. the USSR prosecutor's office began back then, in the 50s. It's just that if you erect a monument to Stalin, then for the achievements of the national and military economy, and not for some kind of "justice", because his trials were not fair at all.
                    1. Nyrobsky
                      Nyrobsky 4 March 2021 00: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: Obliterator
                      What does the modern demand in society have to do with it?
                      Just despite the fact that there is a demand for justice in a MODERN society. That is what I mean, and you are carried in the 50s. Are you satisfied with this situation when the main means of production, energy resources and the financial and banking sector belong to 10% of Russians, and 90% have zero point tenths from this?
                      Quote: Obliterator
                      rehabilitation of victims of political repression gene. the USSR prosecutor's office began back then, in the 50s

                      This was carried out within the framework of the struggle against the personality cult of Stalin, initiated by N. Khrushchev, since he could not get the same authority among the people as Stalin from a word at all, but he did not find any other way how to declare war on the deceased generalissimo and rise on this.
                      Quote: Obliterator
                      if you erect a monument to Stalin, then for the achievements of the national and military economy,
                      That is precisely for this and for the fact that embezzlers, plunderers of the national property and saboteurs received a well-deserved bullet in the forehead, and not fines and suspended sentences as is done now. China is not shy about physically destroying corrupt officials, and therefore the other day Xi reported that poverty in China is over, despite the fact that a planned economy is being carried out quite effectively there at the level of market capitalism. What prevents Russia from taking the economic model of China as a basis and not wallowing in "non-market undercapitalism"? At one time, in the 90s, I had a chance to talk with the Italian Vulmaro working in Russia under the program of re-equipment of gas compressor stations with Western-made turbines (now it is clear that we were then driven into dependence on the supplier of turbines and components). He sincerely wondered why, in such a huge and rich country like Russia, which possesses all the necessary resources, the people live so poorly?
                      Quote: Obliterator
                      his trials were not fair at all.
                      You probably sleep with Solzhensky's volume "The Gulag Archipelago" under your pillow. Why did Stalin give the people universal, compulsory, free education and medicine. The working day is 8 hours (it was planned to decrease to 5 hours) and paid holidays and sick leaves. Developed science and industry? The country produced practically everything necessary on its own and on its territory, from a pin to an airplane and an atomic bomb, i.e. was self-sufficient. Question - Why did he do it? In order to drive educated and healthy people into camps for executions and bring down "millions"? Where is the logic?
                      1. Obliterator
                        Obliterator 4 March 2021 03: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        Just despite the fact that there is a demand for justice in a MODERN society. That is what I mean, and you are carried in the 50s. Are you satisfied with this situation when the main means of production, energy resources and the financial and banking sector belong to 10% of Russians, and 90% have zero point tenths from this?

                        I am quite satisfied that these very means of production are owned by people who are interested in their business, and not by officials who do not care about anything.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        This was carried out within the framework of the struggle against the personality cult of Stalin, initiated by N. Khrushchev, since he could not get the same authority among the people as Stalin from a word at all, but he did not find any other way how to declare war on the deceased generalissimo and rise on this.

                        Speculation. For any more or less educated lawyer familiar with the history of owls. all this is obvious. Denunciation + a couple of interrogations of "witnesses" + a confession (which is known as received) = capital punishment. The security officers of the 30s worked in the same way for a plan against the enemies, as the police of modern Russia work for their cane system.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        That is precisely for this and for the fact that embezzlers, plunderers of the national property and saboteurs received a well-deserved bullet in the forehead, and not fines and suspended sentences as is done now.

                        With that level of proof of guilt, it is still quite a big question whether "embezzlers, plunderers of the national property and saboteurs" really got their bullets. or they were losers who were "rolled over the cart." I hope you know the story of Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya, as well as the person who allegedly handed her over to the Germans? Or a story about how they dug under Marshal Shaposhnikov? It's a real shame.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        China is not shy about physically destroying corrupt officials, and therefore the other day Xi reported that poverty in China is over, despite the fact that a planned economy is being carried out quite effectively there at the level of market capitalism.

                        The smoker does not think that he will necessarily get lung cancer. The motorcyclist does not think that he will be hit by the "boxers". Likewise, a corrupt official does not believe that he will ever be caught. These are the basics of criminology. China has never been able to defeat its corruption by shooting alone, and it will never be able to. The only known remedy against crime is the inevitability of punishment, and this does not depend on the severity of the sanctions, depends only on the competence of the operational and investigative apparatus of law enforcement agencies. Are you in favor of the death penalty, if not a secret?
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        You probably sleep with Solzhensky's volume "The Gulag Archipelago" under your pillow.

                        Finish evaluating my personality, because I did not touch you. I have not read the Gulag archipelago at all. But my grandfather - the Soviet technical intelligentsia, who honestly worked for the benefit of the USSR industry for decades, and has medals from VDNKh for the products of the flagship machine-tool plant of the USSR, A. Solzhenitsyn highly appreciates. Because from his childhood, his hungry peasant knows that the USSR was not a paradise under Stalin, and what it is like to eat rotten potatoes from hunger and go to school without shoes in the winter.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        Why did Stalin give the people universal, compulsory, free education and medicine. The working day is 8 hours (it was planned to decrease to 5 hours) and paid holidays and sick leaves. Developed science and industry? The country produced practically everything necessary on its own and on its territory, from a pin to an airplane and an atomic bomb, i.e. was self-sufficient. Question - Why did he do it?

                        Dear, where did I complain to him about this? I definitely have something to respect Stalin for. In general, I do not in any way deny the achievements of the USSR, because only a blind person can refuse to recognize them.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        In order to drive educated and healthy people into camps for executions and blame "millions"? Where is the logic?

                        I'll tell you this: the NKVD of the Stalin era and the KGB after the 50s are very different structures, primarily in terms of the level of competence of their employees. The KGB would never have allowed themselves the arbitrariness that they had in the 30s, simply because then they already knew how to work.
                      2. Nyrobsky
                        Nyrobsky 4 March 2021 23: 41
                        +1
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        I am quite satisfied that these very means of production are owned by people who are interested in their business, and not by officials who do not care about anything.
                        There would be nothing wrong with this if businessmen created their own production from scratch and demonstrated the advantages of private ownership of the means of production. But the fact is that they acquired these assets for small funds as a result of privatization for privatization checks and rose on what was created with people's funds. As for the disregard of the officials, this is precisely because, firstly, the "statist" official as a class has been reduced to zero, with the replacement of an official as a temporary worker and opportunist not interested in the final result, and secondly, because Stalin is not on them. angry
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        Finish evaluating my personality, because I did not touch you. I have not read the Gulag archipelago at all.
                        My pardon you, if offended, which I sincerely did not want. hi
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        Dear, where did I complain to him about this?
                        Obviously I misinterpreted your comment -
                        It's just that if you erect a monument to Stalin, then for the achievements of the national and military economy, but not for some kind of "justice", because his trials were not fair from the word at all.

                        Quote: Obliterator
                        The KGB would never allow themselves the arbitrariness that they had in the 30s, simply because then they already knew how to work.
                        I cannot agree with the definition of "arbitrariness". Certain excesses may have been, but are they not now, in the period of the riot of flourishing democracy?
                        Quote: Obliterator
                        Are you in favor of the death penalty, if not a secret?

                        Frankly speaking, YES, but only for PROVEN intentional (CONSCIOUS), grave crimes against the person and for crimes of a terrorist nature. Executions for economic crimes (in the image and likeness of the PRC), I do not find mandatory, because I consider it sufficient punishment in the form of a real term with the confiscation of property from the convicted person and his closest relatives. If the perpetrator had the status of a civil servant, then the term must be doubled in excess of that established under the article, so that the state does not dishonor. Something like this.
                        Let's finish the topic for this hi
      2. Wertgan
        Wertgan 1 March 2021 10: 53
        0
        We live in the normal side. Only people do not want to understand in any way that the political struggle is going on right now around them. That right now they are using consciousness manipulation technologies according to Sharpe's methods.
    2. Lannan Shi
      Lannan Shi 28 February 2021 11: 33
      +12
      Quote: Destiny
      The whole palace was built for ebna with public money, although these people do not remember with a kind word

      You are wrong. Confusing people and inhabitants. Here is the Russian people, in the person of our guarantor, Mr. Yeltsin has a very excellent opinion.

      The people are for Yeltsin. With all paws. Well, people like us ... And to whom and when were they interesting? yes
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 February 2021 07: 48
    +14
    A monument-composition "Sobyanin killing COVID 19 with a glance" will be erected on the Lubyanka! lol In Rostov-on-Don, we decided to erect several new monuments to the military, for example, Marshal Baghramyan, and not only to him! I hope that the plans will not change, it will be enough to change the history to please the officials! !!
  • Iris
    Iris 28 February 2021 07: 54
    -21%
    The square needs an architectural dominant. The fountain is a great solution, consistent with the history of the city. And Felix Edmundych - let's not touch him any more! Stands like a work of art in a sculpture park, that's fine. There is no need to re-give him the political content.
    1. Alex_1973
      Alex_1973 28 February 2021 08: 47
      +12
      In your Ukraine you will decide who and where to stand, and Felix's place on the Lubyanka, period.
      You wouldn't be so fired up with such an avatar ...
      1. Freeman
        Freeman 28 February 2021 16: 12
        +5
        Quote: Alex_1973
        In your Ukraine you will decide who and where to stand, and Felix's place on the Lubyanka, period.
        You wouldn't be so fired up with such an avatar ...

        I do not share the opinion Iris (Beretta) and voted for the return of the monument to Dzerzhinsky.
        But you are also wrong, seeing in the avatar "Ukrainian trident".
        - This is the logo of the arms company BERETTA. hi
      2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 16: 59
        +1
        Quote: Alex_1973
        and Felix's place on the Lubyanka, period.

        Felix's place was on Dzerzhinsky Square.
      3. Iris
        Iris 1 March 2021 19: 14
        -1
        Our colleague explained everything to you about the avatar, thanks to him for his kindness. I would like to add that I have nothing to do with Ukraine.
        So, given that Moscow is my hometown, I can decide "who and where to stand" with no less, at least, right than you. And the point.
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 28 February 2021 09: 12
      +6
      political content.
      I wonder if there are street children in the country now?
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 28 February 2021 09: 38
        +13
        Quote: Gardamir
        political content.
        I wonder if there are street children in the country now?

        At least after 1991 there were. And very few cared about them. But Dzerzhinsky in his, much more difficult time, WAS !!! And for some reason no one wants to remember that F.E. Dzerzhinsky was also the People's Commissar of Railways of the RSFSR, and then the USSR. It was he who established the work of the railway.
        He is just very different from the current powers that be! He doesn't put anything in his pocket! At present, only for this it deserves a monument!
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 28 February 2021 12: 52
          +5
          Quote: Egoza
          At least after 1991 there were. And very few cared about them.

          Interestingly, there are simply no statistics on street children in the 90s. Either it was classified, or no one considered them. Caught, sent to an orphanage, or parents, and that's it.
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 28 February 2021 13: 57
            +8
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            nobody counted them. Caught, sent to an orphanage, or parents, and that's it.

            But I saw enough of them in the shelter! What they did not consider ... relatively, they had to account for the products and for the salary. And send them to their parents - they will run away again. And in the orphanage only orphans are accepted.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 28 February 2021 14: 02
              +6
              Quote: Egoza
              What they didn’t consider ... relatively, they had to account for the products and for the salary.

              It's kind of like that, but I didn't find any data on the Internet. Means not for our eyes. Here, basically, people are adults, they remember, but try it, prove Thomas to an unbeliever that there were a lot of them in the 90s.
        2. Obliterator
          Obliterator 3 March 2021 13: 55
          0
          Quote: Egoza
          He is just very different from the current powers that be! He doesn't put anything in his pocket! At present, only for this it deserves a monument!

          Then the white general and the head of the ROVS A.P. Kutepov also needs to be put on, as he, like the Dzerzhinsky ascetic and unmercenary, was intolerant of bribe-takers, pogrom-mongers and violators of discipline. Although it is not a monument to him, but although the disclosure of the still classified circumstances of death would not hurt.
    3. Igor Polovodov
      Igor Polovodov 28 February 2021 10: 56
      +7
      The FED is cast in metal, it was not damaged during dismantling, and is not afraid of vandals in the Museon. Not far away is Stalin, a granite sculpture with a disfigured face ... Shabby, but not forgotten! Returning to Felix Square, he will set off a chain reaction that evens out the distortions of our reality!
      This is what foreign agents in power are afraid of ...
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 28 February 2021 11: 20
        -2
        Quote: Igor Polovodov
        The FED is cast in metal, it was not damaged during dismantling, and is not afraid of vandals in the Museon. Stalin rises nearby

        Everything is not as simple as it might seem, these monuments, you mentioned, are adjacent to sculptures, let's call them avant-garde, although there is another way to call them.
        This is no accident, and not only swagger like that, there are occult symbols as well.
        1. Igor Polovodov
          Igor Polovodov 28 February 2021 14: 57
          +1
          Alas, Stalin plays a derogatory role in this installation, however, the dynamics of the sculpture itself distances him from the static mocking images of this so-called terrarium ...
  • Professor
    Professor 28 February 2021 08: 05
    -26%
    Yes, you show me at least one such education, which gave flowers. "Siguranza"? "Shabak"? NSA? Maybe the Abwehr? Or the Gestapo?

    Serious? Shabak hasn't failed a single citizen. Not even Vahanuna was touched. By the way.

    In general, Roma, it is necessary to separate the concepts of "monuments" and "statues". They demolish idols, but they are different monuments. For example, the best monument to Dzerzhinsky is a memorial (the same "monument" in English only) with the names of all his victims. This will show the scale of the personality. Then there really will be "no one is forgotten and nothing is forgotten."
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 28 February 2021 09: 01
      +19
      Professor (Oleg), maybe it is for us, as residents of Russia, to decide for ourselves the fate of our monuments? You put steles with the names of those killed
      at rallies in Israel, the Palestinians, although it was necessary, according to your own logic, massively put such throughout Israel! !!
      1. Professor
        Professor 28 February 2021 09: 33
        -13%
        1. How well you wrote to "residents of Russia", not "citizens of Russia". That is, residents of the Russian Federation who are not citizens will decide, and citizens who are not residents will not. Interesting approach.
        2. Fylystyntsy are never citizens of Israel, and it is not customary for foreign citizens to attack you to erect obelisks. After all, none of the healthy people proposes to erect monuments to the SS soldiers who died in the current territory of the Russian Federation.
    2. Doctor
      Doctor 28 February 2021 09: 10
      0
      Yes, you show me at least one such education, which gave flowers. "Siguranza"? "Shabak"? NSA? Maybe the Abwehr? Or the Gestapo?

      Serious? Shabak hasn't failed a single citizen. Not even Vahanuna was touched. By the way.

      In general, Roma, it is necessary to separate the concepts of "monuments" and "statues". They demolish idols, but they are different monuments. For example, the best monument to Dzerzhinsky is a memorial (the same "monument" in English only) with the names of all his victims. This will show the scale of the personality. Then there really will be "no one is forgotten and nothing is forgotten."

      This is not even the main point. There are no monuments to their founders in front of the buildings of these offices.

      And on the site of the Gestapo there is a museum. "Topography of Terror" is called.
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 14: 59
        +4
        Quote: Arzt

        This is not even the main point. There are no monuments to their founders in front of the buildings of these offices.

        They did not deserve it because. Apart from these offices, they did not do anything else, unlike Dzerzhinsky.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 28 February 2021 15: 05
          -6
          They did not deserve it because. Apart from these offices, they did not do anything else, unlike Dzerzhinsky.

          Well no. It's just that the winners write history.

          Although Dzerzhinsky is probably worthy of the monument.
          But there are at least three points.

          First, he is a Pole.
          That is, the most powerful special service of Russia was founded by a native of the people of a potential enemy.
          Are the current descendants of his organization satisfied with this fact?
          1. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 15: 25
            +6
            Quote: Arzt

            First, he is a Pole.

            So what? Who cares about his nationality?
            K. Simonov - "Serpilin: -" Give me 10 thousand of these Germans, I will form a division out of them and go to beat the fascists "
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 28 February 2021 15: 54
              -7

              So what? Who cares about his nationality?
              K. Simonov - "Serpilin: -" Give me 10 thousand of these Germans, I will form a division out of them and go to beat the fascists "

              So it suits you. Clear.
              Secondly, Dzerzhinsky, as the founder of the Cheka, is associated with repression.
              Are the current descendants of his organization satisfied with the fact that they will again be called executioners?
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 16: 05
                +3
                Quote: Arzt

                Secondly, Dzerzhinsky, as the founder of the Cheka, is associated with repression.


                Dictionary
                REPRESSION
                Feminine

                Punishment, punitive measure applied by government agencies.
                "To resort to repression"
                Show me a state that has never resorted to repression.
                Maybe it's the Russian Federation?
                Compare the number of "repressed" in the USSR and the Russian Federation in percentage terms. Do not forget to subtract from the "repressed" in the USSR: Central Asian Basmachs, Ukrainian Bandera, Baltic "forest brothers", Vlasov, etc., who were not in the Russian Federation for obvious reasons. The numbers will unpleasantly surprise you.
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 28 February 2021 16: 16
                  -4
                  REPRESSION
                  Feminine

                  Punishment, punitive measure applied by government agencies.

                  Well these are aspects of terminology.
                  We understand that we are talking primarily about Stalin's repressions.

                  And here in the third.

                  The fact is that the monument on the Lubyanka was erected in 1958.
                  On the initiative of Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev.
                  As a symbol of a departure from the Stalinist principles of governance and a return to Leninist ones.

                  Therefore, personally, I am FOR returning Felix Edmundovich to his place.
                  But won't the Stalinists be outraged ... laughing

                  1. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 18: 29
                    0
                    Quote: Arzt

                    We understand that we are talking primarily about Stalin's repressions.

                    Stalinist repression? What is it like? Stalin ran around the country with a pistol and handcuffs? Or maybe there were: investigators, prosecutors, courts, lawyers? Maybe it was they, guided by the Criminal Code, carried out "repressions"? Threes, you say. But the troika is the first invention of the tsarist government. And second, the Troikas were established by a decree of the USSR Armed Forces, i.e. were a completely legitimate body.
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 28 February 2021 19: 49
                      0
                      Stalinist repression? What is it like? Stalin ran around the country with a pistol and handcuffs? Or maybe there were: investigators, prosecutors, courts, lawyers? Maybe it was they, guided by the Criminal Code, carried out "repressions"?

                      This is how everything is arranged with us. The king is responsible for everything.

                      Well, that's fair.
                      And how Hitler was defeated, so the Supreme Commander, and how Katyn, so muddy Germans?

                      No, that's it, that's it. angry
                      1. Krasnoyarsk
                        Krasnoyarsk 1 March 2021 00: 57
                        +3
                        Quote: Arzt
                        Commander-in-Chief, what about Katyn and the murky Germans?

                        So Katyn, it really is the Germans. All educated people know about this.
                      2. Doctor
                        Doctor 1 March 2021 06: 50
                        +1
                        So Katyn, it really is the Germans. All educated people know about this.

                        Yeah, and Kolpashevsky Yar are Vietnamese. laughing
  • tatra
    tatra 28 February 2021 09: 41
    +11
    But what then, if you, the enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists, are all such "innocent victims" who did not commit any crimes, you all cowardly discard responsibility for what you did under Soviet rule, during your anti-Soviet Perestroika , after your seizure of the USSR, starting with the fact that immediately after the October Revolution you, together with your allies, the interventionists and the Germans, unleashed the Civil War with the aim of capturing Russia, in which millions of Russian citizens died?
    1. Professor
      Professor 28 February 2021 10: 32
      -13%
      Quote: tatra
      But what then, if you, the enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists, are all such "innocent victims" who did not commit any crimes, you all cowardly discard responsibility for what you did under Soviet rule, during your anti-Soviet Perestroika , after your seizure of the USSR, starting with the fact that immediately after the October Revolution you, together with your allies, the interventionists and the Germans, unleashed the Civil War with the aim of capturing Russia, in which millions of Russian citizens died?

      1. tatra
        tatra 28 February 2021 10: 37
        +9
        And why do I need this cowardly answer of yours? It is useless to expect from the enemies of the communists not only the truth, but even rationality. So, you simultaneously squeal that under the Soviet regime you did not commit any crimes, and the communists repressed and killed you exclusively "for nothing", and at the same time, cowardly shrugs off responsibility for what you did - from the Civil Revolution you unleashed after the October Revolution - to responsibility for what you did to the country and the people in the 30 years after you captured the USSR, than you yourself acknowledge what you have done - by your crimes, including the seizure and dismemberment of the USSR.
        1. Professor
          Professor 28 February 2021 10: 55
          -10%
          So I am about it. We destroyed the Russian Empire by drinking the Russian people before drinking and drinking the blood of babies. We started the revolution, the Red Terror and unleashed the Civil War. Holodomor and repression are our work. In the Second World War, we either served in the ROA or ate your stew in Tashkent. We poisoned Dzhugashvili, and not only him. Khrushchev dispersed the army of our bloods. Perestroika and the collapse of the USSR are also our actions. Have you forgotten anything? Oh yes, we drank the water at the tap and we piss the elevator too.
          And now that I have confessed everything I have done, I would like to know about the chapel?
          1. tatra
            tatra 28 February 2021 11: 36
            +3
            If you object to the essence of my comment about YOU, the enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists, if they are NOT able to refute my words about YOU, the enemies of the Bolshevik-Communists, but are trying to cowardly twist out on the eternal principle of the enemies of the Communists "oneself", "defending oneself through attacking others "-Do not answer . The enemies of the communists are not capable of even elementary discussions, but they still seriously think that they are more than communists and their supporters worthy of owning the country.
            1. Professor
              Professor 28 February 2021 12: 15
              +1
              Quote: tatra
              If there is nothing to object to the merits of my comment about YOU

              There is no essence or "substance" in your comment if you wish. From the word "absolutely".

              Quote: tatra
              if you are NOT able to refute my words about YOU, the enemies of the Bolshevik-communists, and you are trying to cowardly get out of the eternal principle of the enemies of the communists "yourself", "defending yourself through an attack on others" - do not answer. The enemies of the communists are not even capable of elementary discussions, but they still seriously think that they are more than communists and their supporters worthy to rule the country.

              Am I attacking? Not at all. I repent bow my head and acknowledge all these and other crimes committed by us:
              We destroyed the Russian Empire by drinking the Russian people before drinking and drinking the blood of babies. We started the revolution, the Red Terror and unleashed the Civil War. Holodomor and repression are our work. In the Second World War, we either served in the ROA or ate your stew in Tashkent. We poisoned Dzhugashvili, and not only him. Khrushchev dispersed the army of our bloods. Perestroika and the collapse of the USSR are also our actions. Have you forgotten anything? Oh yes, we drank the water at the tap and we piss the elevator too.

              However, I am haunted by the question of the chapel? We, the enemies of the Bolshevik communists, destroyed it?
              1. tatra
                tatra 28 February 2021 12: 20
                +3
                I'm tired of your cowardly and stupid verbiage, All the best.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 28 February 2021 13: 35
                  -3
                  Quote: tatra
                  I'm tired of your cowardly and stupid verbiage, All the best.

                  Like a mountain off your shoulders. And then I was charged with the collapse of the chapel.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 28 February 2021 08: 10
    -14%
    Quote: R. Skomorokhov
    It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka.

    One gets the impression that under the same nickname (Roman Skomorokhov), completely different people write ...
  • Svarog
    Svarog 28 February 2021 08: 24
    +8
    It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka. It is clear that officials will never agree to this. After all, this is a symbol. A man who actually fought all his life against such pests. And now they are taking revenge on him.

    For pests, the Dzerzhinsky nightmare. And even from his monument they are seized with horror.
    If you need to erect a monument to some dubious personality such as Solzhenitsyn, Kolchak, Mannerheim, White Czechs and Italian fascists - no problem here. That is, quietly, without asking anyone, a "monument" is taken and erected. And then it opens with the participation of high-ranking officials.

    We have such an elite .. their "wonderful impulses" are directed there .. That is why we have continuous "breakthroughs" ..
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 28 February 2021 08: 29
    +9
    I looked at the photo, where they mock at the monument to Dzerzhinsky. And you involuntarily remember Guy Maupassant. “So it will be with every tyrant!” - said the former mayor of the city, shooting at the bust of Napoleon. “I am for the monument to Dzerzhinsky. But I don’t want to be desecrated. Our society is of various sizes. In Moscow, a monument to Felix. In Samara, to Alexander II. We have a different disease. It was profitable for someone to ignite a civil war in the minds of people. And it started to rewrite history. Another disease, we stopped understanding each other. language, but the words do not reach the mind. Straight Babylon of some sort.
    1. SVD68
      SVD68 28 February 2021 10: 12
      +1
      Quote: nikvic46
      Another disease is that we have ceased to understand each other. We speak the same language, but the words do not reach our mind. It's just some kind of Babylon.

      "... until they learn to look for the interests of certain classes behind any moral, religious, political, social phrases, statements, promises" (V. I. Lenin). Not in one language, in different ones. In the language of different classes.
    2. Krasnoyarsk
      Krasnoyarsk 28 February 2021 15: 13
      +2
      Quote: nikvic46
      city, shooting at the bust of Napoleon. ". I am for the monument to Dzerzhinsky. But I do not want to be desecrated. Our society is of various sizes. There is a monument to Felix in Moscow. In Samara, Alexander II. We have a different disease. war in the minds of people. And away we go

      A bit wrong. Yes, our society is really different. But at the same time, I can understand those who want to erect a monument to Alexander II, after all, the tsar was not an enemy of Russia either. But I will never understand those who stand up for monuments to the enemies of Russia: Mannerheim, Krasnov, Solzhenitsyn, Vlasov and other creatures. And we simply have to fight this in every possible way. Tolerastiya in this case will not lead to good.
    3. Obliterator
      Obliterator 3 March 2021 14: 13
      0
      Quote: nikvic46
      Our society is diverse. There is a monument to Felix in Moscow. In Samara - to Alexander the Second. We have a different disease. Someone benefited from igniting a civil war in the minds of people. And it started to rewrite history. Another disease, we ceased to understand each other. We speak the same language, but the words do not reach our mind. It’s some kind of Babylon. ”

      So she (civil in the minds) and began with the Dzerzhinsky and the like, who declared everything old criminal, began to build a new society, simultaneously cleaning out with a hot iron those who, in their opinion, did not fit in there. If they did not demolish the monuments to the tsars, and they themselves with their whole family were not placed without trial in unmarked graves, so probably Dzerzhinsky would hardly have been touched by anyone now. And now we are at war with our own past. And we will fight for a long time.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 28 February 2021 08: 42
    +8
    For the last 30 years, everything that has been done to humiliate Russia and the Russian people has been encouraged and supported by the authorities! Without an anthem and a flag, this is already the norm. You can list a lot of unfairness here. I believe that Russia is being deliberately led to a civil war.
    1. atos_kin
      atos_kin 28 February 2021 09: 12
      +10
      Everything that happens in the vastness of the USSR is natural while strangers are in the Kremlin. For them, Lenin, Stalin, Dzerzhinsky and other people's leaders are like a vaccine against an infection.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 28 February 2021 09: 43
        +8
        Quote: atos_kin
        For them, Lenin, Stalin, Dzerzhinsky and other people's leaders are like a vaccine against infection.

        So they immediately remember the anecdote ...
        They revived V.I. Lenin. He walked around, looked around and .... disappeared.
        Thinking what to do? They revived F.E. Dzerzhinsky. I walked around F.E. and found a little note:
        "Felix Edmundovich! Left for Razliv. We'll have to start all over again."
        xxxxx
        First, the people will demand to return the monument, and then it will come to revival.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 28 February 2021 08: 44
    +14
    That is, it turns out strange: the Italian fascists can be bet. Mannerheim can. Belochekham can.
    Ataman Krasnov in private, the Cheka, according to some public opinion, at that time, was supposed to issue coupons for enhanced food, for sabotage and counterrevolution. F.E. Dzerzhinsky, for his success in restoring the economy and for the elimination of homelessness is already worthy of a monument. Who of today's and past politicians, over the past 30 years, can be proud of such successes? Nooo, in terms of liquidation, they liquidated a lot, and threw how much money into their pockets. F.E. Dzerzhinsky, even as a monument, still frightens many.
  • pitr_74
    pitr_74 28 February 2021 08: 59
    -14%
    But for me, it is necessary to put a monument there to the second General Commissioner of State Security - Nikolai Ivanovich Yezhov. And he cleaned the country in the 37th with an iron grip, and was repressed innocently - he must satisfy everyone. And what a good reminder to all generations of chekists that the Boss can do with you.
    1. ivan2022
      ivan2022 28 February 2021 12: 07
      +3
      Quote: pitr_74
      And what a good reminder to all generations of chekists that the Boss can do with you.

      -
      And Yezhov has not been rehabilitated even today. Where did you get the information that he is a "victim of arbitrariness"? I believe you decided so because such an opinion is "comme il faut" today.
      By the way; Stalin did not hold any positions in the Government from 1923 to 1941. And the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks was a democratic party with full election and accountability of all leaders to Congresses and meetings.
      You'd better ponder over the question: "And why, under the most democratic legislation, Stalin was in fact the Tsar?"
      maybe because in the "land of slaves, the land of masters", any General Secretary or President, King and Master? There would be lackeys and slaves, and slave owners will be found regardless of the "socio-economic structure and system."
      In such a society, the system is always one-slave-owning.
      1. pitr_74
        pitr_74 28 February 2021 15: 26
        0
        In the sparkle of lightning you became familiar to us
        Yezhov, sharp-eyed and clever commissar.
        Great Lenin wise word
        Raised the hero Yezhov for the battle!


        It is strange that connoisseurs of the GPU and Stalin would negate Nikolai Ivanovich. This is their hero - they are proud of the legacy of the feat of their personal ancestors in 37-39, because Yezhov was the main organizer there. But not an ideologist, of course: “As follows from the journal of entries of visitors to Stalin's office, in 1937-1938 Yezhov visited the leader almost 290 times and spent more than 850 hours with him. only Molotov "
        And he was precisely repressed, he did not prepare any coup d'etat, these are the fantasies of the investigation in their purest form. Those. he was convicted of crimes that he did not commit, it was just Stalin's destruction of his executor - this man became no longer needed by Kobe. For example, if Chikotilo was convicted of preparing a coup, then it would be repression, i.e. Chikotilo would have been innocently convicted on charges of treason, of course, he would not have ceased to be a maniac murderer from this. The idea of ​​justice is simple - it is necessary to judge by deeds, and not by the fantasies of the investigator and prosecutor, I hope you will agree with me.

        No one condemned Yezhov for the Great Terror, and, in the 80s, he was denied rehabilitation as not subject to rehabilitation. In fact, then it was necessary to rehabilitate Yezhov on charges of high treason in 40, and immediately launch a public trial, like the one at Nuremberg, over Yezhov's still-living assistants in the Great Purge.
        1. Unknown
          Unknown 28 February 2021 16: 46
          +3
          Quote: pitr_74
          It is strange that connoisseurs of the GPU and Stalin would negate Nikolai Ivanovich. This is their hero - they are proud of the legacy of the feat of their personal ancestors in 37-39, because Yezhov was the main organizer there. But not an ideologist, of course: “As follows from the journal of entries of visitors to Stalin's office, in 1937-1938 Yezhov visited the leader almost 290 times and spent more than 850 hours with him. only Molotov "

          It is human nature to make mistakes, and Comrade Stalin is no exception. But not everyone is given to admit their mistakes, talk about them ........ Further, Stalin says to Yakovlev:

          “Yezhov is a bastard! A decomposed person. You call him at the People's Commissariat - they say: he left for the Central Committee. You call the Central Committee - they say: he left for work. You send him to his house - it turns out that he lies dead drunk on the bed. He killed many innocent people. We shot him for this "........ Air Marshal A.Ye. Golovanov spoke this way about the Supreme ........ However, having studied this or that person and being convinced of his knowledge and abilities, he trusted such people, I would say, infinitely. But, as they say, God forbid that such people show themselves somewhere from the bad side. Stalin did not forgive such things to anyone. The opinion of the person who communicated with I.V. Stalin, which is similar to the opinions of those who are closely acquainted with him. So Yezhov deserved to be shot without any reservations.
    2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 12: 24
      +1
      Quote: pitr_74
      it is necessary to put a monument there to the second General Commissar of State Security - Nikolai Ivanovich Yezhov.

      Tolerant.
      Bugger and executioner rolled into one. A colorful party on the Lubyanka will laughing
      1. pitr_74
        pitr_74 28 February 2021 15: 30
        -1
        What kind of service are such heroes. He also had rare articles - a monument to Yezhov must be erected in the life-size of the hero, with the back of the head to the Kremlin, and with eyes in the offices of the Chekists.
  • tasha
    tasha 28 February 2021 09: 19
    +3
    That is why the monument to Dzerzhinsky had every right to be installed back on its pedestal. And this would be quite fair to itself both historically and legally.
    There are more suitable examples in Russian history for the restoration of historical and legal justice. The monument to Dzerzhinsky is a remake in comparison with them ...
    Moreover, the entire Lubyanskaya Square, which bore the name of Dzerzhinsky, was designed around the monument ..
    I briefly looked at the history of Lubyanka Square. Not sure if this is the case.

    Roman, a question for you - why do you think, during the life of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, a monument to Comrade Dzerzhinsky was not erected on Lubyanskaya Square? It was installed only in 1958, on the initiative of N.A. Bulganin, who began his service in the Cheka. Supported the creation of the monument - Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev.

    Monuments to Stalin are being demolished - and Dzerzhinsky is being erected at the same time ... Hmmm.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 28 February 2021 09: 50
      +4
      Quote: tasha
      Supported the creation of the monument - Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev.

      So Khrushch considered him "for his own". But what I.V. Stalin said in his speech
      "..... It is often said that in 1922 such and such voted for Trotsky. Also wrong. A man could be young, he simply did not understand, he was a bully. Dzerzhinsky voted for Trotsky, not just voted, but openly supported Trotsky under Lenin against Lenin. Do you know that? He was not a man who could remain passive in anything. He was a very active Trotskyist, and he wanted to raise all the GPU to defend Trotsky. He failed ... The best thing is to judge people by their There were people who hesitated, then withdrew, withdrew openly, honestly and in the same ranks they fight the Trotskyists very well. Dzerzhinsky fought very well, Comrade Andreev fights very well [17] ...... "
      Subsequently F.E. Dzerzhinsky changed his mind and fought against Trotsky.
    2. Freeman
      Freeman 28 February 2021 16: 03
      +5
      taskha (Mikhail Kitaev) Today, 09:19
      ... why do you think, during the life of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, a monument to Comrade Dzerzhinsky was not erected on Lubyanka Square? It was installed only in 1958, on the initiative of N.A. Bulganin, who began his service in the Cheka. Supported the creation of the monument - Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev.


      The decision to erect a monument to Dzerzhinsky was made back in 1936.
      But it was installed, indeed, only in 1958.

      1. tasha
        tasha 28 February 2021 16: 29
        +1
        Whoa! Thanks I'll know.
        They probably did not establish it, because Comrade I. Unshlikht turned out to be a Polish spy and saboteur, for which he was shot in 1938?
        1. Freeman
          Freeman 28 February 2021 17: 14
          +5
          Quote: tasha
          Whoa! Thanks I'll know.
          They probably did not establish it, because Comrade I. Unshlikht turned out to be a Polish spy and saboteur, for which he was shot in 1938?


          Well, then Kalinin - "will be more important." And he survived all the "cleansing" safely.
          Maybe the point is that they wanted "all at once"?

          This is how Dzerzhinsky Square and New Square should have looked, according to the General Plan for the reconstruction of Moscow in 1935.

          1. tasha
            tasha 28 February 2021 17: 24
            +1
            Well, then Kalinin - "will be more important." And he survived all the "cleansing" safely.
            He was an honored comrade, so he survived. But what kind of enemy did he warm up ...
            Maybe the fact is that they wanted "everything at once"
            May be. But there were other things to do. We feel good - no worries, no hassle. To drag monuments from place to place, there is nothing else to do ...
          2. Iris
            Iris 1 March 2021 21: 14
            0
            Very interesting, thanks!
            Curiously, in the General Plan of the 57th year, Dzerzhinsky Square is not mentioned at all, as if it does not exist in nature either. Apparently, the issue was "being settled" at that moment ..
  • Gardamir
    Gardamir 28 February 2021 09: 45
    -1
    Speaking of memory, the present ones honor such
    https://youtu.be/fY44KrN2v-4
    anyone interested in that no anniversary, it is simply obvious for the current idol.
  • tatra
    tatra 28 February 2021 09: 51
    +4
    This epic with a monument on the Lubyanka has once again proved in 103 years of the Soviet and post-Soviet period that the Soviet mentality is a people FOR, the anti-Soviet people are an evil and cowardly people AGAINST. And in order to be AGAINST everything Soviet, the anti-Soviet people are ready to be FOR anyone and anything - deceitfully, hypocritically, to praise the last Russian monarch, falsifying his rule for the sake of profit in anti-Sovietism, to be for the invaders of their homeland, the interventionists and Nazis, for the enemy of their country anti-Soviet-Russophobic West, erect monuments to the external and internal enemies of their country and people, those about whom the anti-Soviet people do not know a damn thing, just not to erect monuments to the heroes of the history of their country. And doing the same thing that the anti-Soviet people with "righteous anger" expose the communists for the crimes, the anti-Soviet people cowardly justify themselves "well, the communists did the same."
  • ZAV69
    ZAV69 28 February 2021 09: 58
    +2
    A rare case when I almost agree with Skomorokhov. The monument will return to its place, in 30 years, when the generation that ruined the country in 90 and rules the country now will leave. And now, yes, they are afraid. They are even afraid of the dead.
  • ivan2022
    ivan2022 28 February 2021 10: 08
    -3
    Memory of what? About the fall of the Tunguska meteorite? Yes, a great event….
    Memory of Nikolai II, Dzerzhinsky, Yeltsin? What do we care? Our society is a weather vane, his name; "Approved by all authorities." We live not by the memory of ideas or their carriers, but by their opportunistic images created today! Our “monuments” are meteorological weather vane indicating the current wind direction. Our "wisdom" is to know where it is blowing from and to write with the wind, not against. Our claims are claims to the master, so that "according to the mind of the rules" and would not force us every new morning to turn everything the other way around. And so, we do not mind! Today Dzerzhinsky is an "ugly executioner", and a hundred years ago he is a "fighter for the happiness of ordinary people." And so they agree and vice versa agree. We will swear until snot and fight if anyone is against the current master! In the 19th century, there was a "vile class", and in the 20th, the "common people" appeared. "We are simple people!"
  • avia12005
    avia12005 28 February 2021 10: 50
    +4
    Dzerzhinsky and, even more so, Stalin will always be a threat to thieves and corrupt officials from the other world.
  • Alexander X
    Alexander X 28 February 2021 11: 00
    +2
    I agree with the author of this article. The monument to F.E.Dzerzhinsky should stand where it was installed. By the way, the people's money.
    And for the Moscow authorities, the best way out would be after the restoration of the monument to its original place, to carry out educational work aimed at explaining the role of Dzerzhinsky in state building.
    IMHO ...
    1. tatra
      tatra 28 February 2021 11: 26
      +5
      Well, this is your advice for normal people, but there are none among the enemies of the communists. They do not respect their country and people, the history of their country and people, they do not respect themselves. So, the Soviet communists and their supporters respected themselves, and were not afraid to praise the great people and heroes of the former State, the same Nevsky. And for the enemies of the communists both now and on the project "The Name of Russia" in 2008, Nevsky is a candidate - AGAINST Lenin, Stalin, Dzerzhinsky.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 28 February 2021 11: 17
    -10%
    And here we have Moscow, Lubyanskaya Square. And the trace that remained from the monument to F.E.Dzerzhinsky.
    This is a trace from the famous age-old monument of the history of Moscow-fontana Vitali.

    Around which and formed in the 19th and 20th centuries ancient Lubyanskaya Square, including the magnificent pre-revolutionary buildings of the future FSB were built.

    And the monument erected by the Trotskyist Khrushchev, the very famous (according to Stalin's statement) Trotskyist Dzerzhinsky, stood for only 33 years.

    So it's time, yes, to end the war on monuments and restore the monument Vitali's fountain.

    And really magnificent artwork by Vutečić-must keep carefully
    1. tatra
      tatra 28 February 2021 11: 21
      +7
      And that the enemies of the communists for 30 years have not installed anything instead of the monument to Dzerzhinsky that you demolished, and as soon as the supporters of the USSR suggested RETURNING the monument in place, you immediately felt the urge to both Nevsky and the fountain, just to be stupid against the Soviet one. It is impossible to create a normal State on ideology and history AGAINST.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 28 February 2021 12: 01
        -6
        Quote: tatra
        And why the enemies of the communists for 30 years have not installed anything instead of the demolished monument to Dzerzhinsky

        to restore THOUSANDS of monuments demolished by the communists Russian Glory, Culture, History, Heroes OV 1812, RTR, RYAV, PMV and pr- need century.

        The tomb of the Hero Prince Pozharsky, blown up by the barbarians in the 1930s, has been restored, the magnificent Column of Glory of Russia, demolished at the same time, the Kazan Cathedral of Prince Pozharsky has been restored, dismantled by them, the unique Kostroma Kremlin is being restored, blown up by vandals, etc., etc.: such works on the return from oblivion destroyed treasures of Russia no end.

        The turn will come before the restoration of a unique fountain in its place.
        Quote: tatra
        It is impossible to create a normal State on ideology and history AGAINST

        exactly! But, unfortunately, this did not reach the enemies of the monuments of the History of Russia completely and too late - thousands of Russian monuments were already destroyed in the 1918-1960s ...
        1. tatra
          tatra 28 February 2021 12: 08
          +6
          Ha, no need to cowardly get out of the beloved enemies of the communists with the hypocritical "righteous anger" in your anti-Soviet system. Answer a simple question, and do not get out - why, as soon as the supporters of the USSR suggested RETURNING the monument to Dzerzhinsky, which you demolished during your anti-Soviet Perestroika, to the Lubyanka, you immediately felt the urge to erect a monument to Dzerzhinsky - a monument to Nevsky or a fountain?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 28 February 2021 12: 54
            -6
            Quote: tatra
            Ha, no need to cowardly get out of the beloved enemies of the communists with hypocritical "righteous anger" in your anti-Soviet

            THOUSANDS of monuments of Russian Glory, Culture, History, Heroes OV 1812, RTR, RYAV, PMV, demolished by the communists, are just FACTS of crimes of Russophobes against Russia.
            Quote: tatra
            Why, as soon as the supporters of the USSR suggested RETURNING the monument to Dzerzhinsky, which you demolished during your anti-Soviet Perestroika, to the Lubyanka, did you immediately feel the urge to erect a monument to Dzerzhinsky - a monument to Nevsky or a fountain?

            It is necessary to RETURN the HISTORICAL monument - the fountain. This is true from the point of view of the careful preservation of History.

            The monument to Dzerzhinsky, of course, artistic value and must be preserved in a museum, for example.
            1. tatra
              tatra 28 February 2021 13: 03
              +6
              If you, like a parrot, repeat the same senseless evil verbiage, and are not able to answer my simple question, do not answer at all. There is such a concept constantly exposing the falsity and hypocrisy of the enemies of the communists - like logic. And according to this logic, if for the whole 30 years after your capture of Russia you didn’t bother to erect monuments to those you listed, Nevsky, a fountain, then you didn’t want to, you didn’t care about all of them and the fountain on Lubyanka.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 28 February 2021 14: 01
                -5
                Quote: tatra
                If you, like a parrot, repeat the same meaningless spiteful verbiage

                lol laughing
                who is this
                Quote: tatra
                like a parrot repeating the same senseless spiteful verbiage
                :
                Quote: tatra "enemies of the communists, enemies of the communists, enemies of the communists, enemies of the communists"
                ,but? lol

                Do you know any other words? lol
                Quote: tatra
                not able to answer my simple question - do not answer at all.

                You have already been answered TWO times, it just did not reach.

                P. 1. I repeat THIRD time: to restore ALL the monuments destroyed by yours, you need century.

                The turn will come to fountain, which has simply not yet reached the hands due to the huge volume destroyed by you.

                And Nevsky is not needed there at all.
                Quote: tatra
                the concept is like logic. And according to this logic, if for the whole 30 years after your capture of Russia you did not bother to erect monuments to those whom you listed, Nevsky, a fountain,they didn't want to , you didn't care about all of them and the fountain on the Lubyanka.

                see P. 1
                1. tatra
                  tatra 28 February 2021 14: 17
                  +5
                  Ha, what centuries? All 30 years after the capture of Russia by you, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, there is only one degradation, impoverishment of Russia, impoverishment and extinction of the Russian people. And your ideology and history are evil anti-Sovietism. What will remain of Russia and the Russian people in another 30 years? You are 30 years old only to destroy and destroy the Soviet and Russian, and no one bothers to impose foreignism. The entire center of Moscow is in foreign signs, foreign names of stores with entirely imports. And you, enemies of the communists, are also posing as "Russian patriots"
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 28 February 2021 14: 30
                    -5
                    Quote: tatra
                    Ha what centuries

                    it's not haha ​​to you, no.

                    Destroyed your barbarians thousands of MASTERPIECES of Moscow, Suzdal, Vladimir, Kostroma, Petrozavodsk, other HUNDREDS of cities of Russia are required for restoration a lot of money and the same amount of time..

                    and fourth once, not clear? belay lol
                    1. tatra
                      tatra 28 February 2021 14: 33
                      +6
                      How much can you answer on the cowardly principle of "defense by attack"? Learn to defend YOURSELF, enemies of the communists. And in order to be malignant AGAINST - neither intellect, nor conscience, nor convictions, nor courage, is not necessary.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 1 March 2021 09: 48
                        0
                        Quote: tatra
                        How much can you answer on the cowardly principle of "defense by attack"?

                        who attacked you ...? belay lol

                        WHO, unnecessary to anyone, needs? lol

                        WHAT you do not understand in my specific answers?
                        Quote: tatra
                        Learn to defend YOURSELF, enemies of the communists

                        learn to express your so-called in Russian. "thoughts", "enemies of the communists" lol- WHOM do you need to defend against? belay
                        There is no one after all.
                        Quote: tatra
                        ... And in order to be malignant AGAINST - neither intellect, nor conscience, nor convictions, nor courage, is not necessary.

                        do not be spiteful, who is in the way? request

                        It is better to collect funds for the monuments of Glory, History and Culture of Russia destroyed by yours, participate in these construction projects in order to atone for a small share of your terrible guilt for their destruction at least for a grain. hi
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 20
      +1
      Famous joke:
      “- And now GosStrakh is here?
      - Not. State Horror ".
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 28 February 2021 11: 26
    -2
    In the USSR, the monument to Peter I, Nicholas I and several others were not demolished, and so there were monuments to the bloodsucking kings.
  • Alexfly
    Alexfly 28 February 2021 11: 42
    -8
    And what does the author Solzhenitsyn not like? Odious personality? By the way, a front-line soldier ... Or we respect selectively, according to different orders ??
    1. tatra
      tatra 28 February 2021 12: 12
      +2
      Yes of course . The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people in Russia and in the anti-Soviet-Russophobic West praise Solzhenitsyn solely for being a front-line soldier. When will the enemies of the communists stop lying and hypocrisy?
      1. Alexfly
        Alexfly 28 February 2021 12: 28
        -5
        Probably when the Kommunyaks ask for forgiveness for the peasants and hard workers they killed, for the deprivation and destruction of dissidents ..., for the creation of a class of approbates who created their own kind of communists like EBN and Gorby ...
        1. tatra
          tatra 28 February 2021 12: 44
          +1
          Once again, the enemy of the communists cowardly got out on the principle of "defense by attack." ALL the facts that the anti-Soviet-Russophobic clique with hypocritical "righteous anger and philanthropy" exposed for the crimes of those from whom it took the country for the purpose of personal enrichment at the expense of the country and the people, in ALL other cases it justifies or "does not notice", as in her chronic hunger in Russia until October 25, 1917 is "naturally, this is the climate", the clique does not care about all those who starved and died of hunger, and if the famine is after October 25, 1917, the clique immediately begins to squeal "yes, this is a crime of power, genocide , famine, there shouldn't have been hunger. "
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 1 March 2021 10: 49
            0
            Girl, stop promoting your favorite party, It, like others, is full of hypocrites ... And one more thing: DO NOT mix everything together ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. apro
          apro 28 February 2021 16: 45
          +7
          Quote: AlexFly
          Probably when the Kommunyaks ask for forgiveness for the peasants and hard workers they killed, for the deprivation and destruction of dissidents ..., for the creation of a class of approbates who created their own kind of communists like EBN and Gorby ...

          And for the murdered kommunistov. No one wants to repent ??? or a game with only one gate ????
          1. Alexfly
            Alexfly 1 March 2021 10: 52
            -1
            And this is already personal with the Almighty must be begged ... This is already personal .. Note for later: in times of war, belonging to a particular group (here parties, etc.) does not facilitate your fate in survival (except for opportunists)
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 February 2021 12: 18
    +5
    Oh yeah!
    A word to comrade Mayakovsky (for comrade Tatra):

    laughing
  • Radikal
    Radikal 28 February 2021 12: 40
    +6
    Quote: Pilot
    Quote: Destiny
    It is a pity that the monument to "Iron Felix" will not return to Lubyanka.

    It's a pity. It's an ugly story with the vote. Why was it necessary to fence in a garden if the monument was not originally going to be restored ..
    This "vegetable garden" perfectly showed the number of residents of the capital, whom the state has not yet been able to process. the policy of de-Sovietization, well, and their moods .. Iron Felix personifies the Revolution and Soviet power, and it seems that the current government did not expect such a number of supporters and interrupted this test. Now again ,, work up your sleeves ,, - ,, there is no time to swing ,,

    Most likely, the way it was, probably the numbers began to increase towards the monument to Iron Felix, then the situation could get out of control, despite the resource of Moscow teachers and officials involved, so the result is clear - they just ... got cold feet. lol
  • iouris
    iouris 28 February 2021 12: 46
    +4
    A monument is not so much a memory as a symbol. Is everything clear to you now?
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 February 2021 12: 47
    +1
    Yes, as if it is already possible to disperse, the next day after the start (of the vote), his Excellency the Moscow mayor spoke about the fact that it is inexpedient in any case to return the monument to Dzerzhinsky to its old place.
    1. iouris
      iouris 28 February 2021 21: 21
      0
      A big house without Dzerzhinsky is a clear and understandable symbol.
  • Radikal
    Radikal 28 February 2021 13: 05
    +8
    Quote: AlexFly
    And what does the author Solzhenitsyn not like? Odious personality? By the way, a front-line soldier ... Or we respect selectively, according to different orders ??

    General Vlasov was also a front-line soldier ... until a certain moment ... sad
    1. Alexfly
      Alexfly 4 March 2021 18: 32
      0
      You are right, only he chose the wrong side, and Mr.-Comrade Solzhenitsyn was simply engaged in criticism, what's wrong with that? Or are you a clear supporter of endorsements? Are you far from Socrates' expression that the truth is born in a dispute? Discussion of the problem leads to the search for its solution ... And Solzhenitsyn's works are a consequence of his worldview, and if the main thing does not like it, then this only speaks of the scarcity of his perception ..
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 28 February 2021 13: 19
    +4
    Showed their fear of him. 100 years have passed and still sucks in the stomach, and suddenly.
  • AB
    AB 28 February 2021 13: 34
    +5
    Ask those living in Moscow whom they love least from the local bosses, the answer will be Sobyanin and Liksutov for 90%. Both Medvedev's nominees and to Moscow initially had nothing to do. So what do you want from such bosses? Such bosses do not like Moscow, do not like the Soviet past, and they are not at all interested in spending money where they cannot be pulled out later. It's not like laying borders with tiles every year.
  • 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 28 February 2021 13: 59
    +5
    Of course, the current structure has nothing to do with the organization created by F.E. Dzerzhinsky, it looks more like an antipode, but the monument must be returned.
    But the monument to the False Nitsin, who lied to everyone and everything, must be renamed into a monument of lies.
    1. tatra
      tatra 28 February 2021 14: 21
      +5
      As soon as Gorbachev gave freedom to the enemies of the communists, they immediately began selling drugs at pharmacy No. 1, which can be seen from the windows of the KGB building on Lubyanka. This is the symbolism of what those who demolished the monument to Dzerzhinsky wanted to commit crimes with impunity.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 28 February 2021 16: 41
        +3
        Let's start from afar. Sretenskaya street / yes, yes! In the 16th century this street had such a name /, Nikolskaya, under Soviet power - October 25 street. Why am I? Yes, to the fact that pharmacy number one / before the revolution * Ferrein * / was in house number 19. On the odd side, if you are a Muscovite, this will tell you a lot. She is physically invisible from the windows of the KGB. And drugs were pushed everywhere, near the same * Slavianski Bazaar *, for example.
      2. Alexfly
        Alexfly 4 March 2021 18: 34
        0
        Why won't they be killed? Do they have carte blanche from themselves?
  • Freeman
    Freeman 28 February 2021 16: 31
    +6
    Lubyanskaya Square, which bore the name of Dzerzhinsky, was designed around the monument. From which there is now a flowerbed object.


    Not even a flower bed was left ...

    1. Phil77
      Phil77 28 February 2021 16: 44
      +5
      A flowerbed for what? The Saban's dream is all in a tile! laughing
      1. bubalik
        bubalik 28 February 2021 16: 56
        +5
        The dream of most cities is about tiles.
        1. Phil77
          Phil77 28 February 2021 17: 00
          +4
          This is for the sabyanin. And you know Sergey, if they would have laid her normally. One slippery infection. Two. Short-lived / see the first point /. Three. Asphalt, in my opinion, is better. wink
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 18
            +6
            Lay the paving stones. And with the thoroughness of the ancient Chinese. So that thoroughly. But who will go for it.
            1. Phil77
              Phil77 28 February 2021 17: 22
              +3
              Hi Sergey! Glad to meet you! Well, a closer example is possible - German paving stones. But, as I correctly noted, thoroughness and .... control is important!
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 50
                +3
                Spring is coming. A little more - and we will winter.
                1. Phil77
                  Phil77 28 February 2021 17: 55
                  +3
                  That's right, I've already put on my cap.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 58
                    +2
                    Always wearing a cap. And in the cold - a hood.
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 28 February 2021 17: 27
              +3
              She's slippery too.
              1. Phil77
                Phil77 28 February 2021 17: 35
                +2
                Hi Anton! Asphalt. And cleaning.
                Is there something unusual place we have chosen for the meeting?
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 28 February 2021 17: 52
                  +2
                  Hello, Sergey!
                  Well, you are not particularly interested in the history of the Bosporus kingdom ...
              2. Korsar4
                Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 51
                +3
                Combination of paving stones and asphalt.
                Today I watched as a tram driver with a crowbar cleared the rails.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 28 February 2021 17: 54
                  +2
                  We have Nevsky in granite.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 59
                    +2
                    So they brought the whole stone to you.
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 28 February 2021 18: 10
                      +2
                      The decree banning stone construction was canceled in 1741. Nevsky was "dressed" in granite in the middle of the XNUMXs.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 28 February 2021 18: 48
                        +3
                        I never thought about it: when Nevsky “dressed” in granite. Now there is a possibility.

                        And the "zero" of what century?
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 28 February 2021 19: 01
                        +2
                        Current. You can criticize Matvienko as much as you like, but the rest of the governors did not even do a tenth for the city, in comparison with it.
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 28 February 2021 22: 28
                    +2
                    It was not a panacea. Perhaps I will surprise you, but the origins of the typical building, "glorified" in "The Irony of Fate", are by no means an invention of Khrushchev's architects. Authorship belongs to Dominico Trezzini.
                    1. Korsar4
                      Korsar4 1 March 2021 07: 50
                      +2
                      After talking about granite on Nevsky Prospekt, the kind network, at my request, issued Trezzini's plan for Petersburg.
                      So I'm ready to some extent.

                      Is your university also a creation of Trezzini? Loved the inside.
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 1 March 2021 08: 00
                      +2
                      The design and general management of the construction of the 12 Collegia building - yes, Trezzini.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 28 February 2021 17: 32
      +3
      I agree. We got drunk a little in the capitals.
    3. Korsar4
      Korsar4 28 February 2021 17: 52
      +3
      There is nothing better than a country road. But this, again, is from the pedestrian's side.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 28 February 2021 18: 01
        +3
        Especially in the offseason and after the "KAMAZ".
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 28 February 2021 18: 46
          +3
          The right shoes save you.
          And the off-season has its advantages.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 28 February 2021 18: 49
            +3
            The right shoes save you.
            From sticking clay?
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 28 February 2021 19: 10
              +3
              Choosing the right route saves you from sticking clay.
              And the best lane is with a greater proportion of the sandy fraction.
              1. depressant
                depressant 28 February 2021 21: 41
                +5
                I strongly agree to discuss the specifics of pedestrian tiles and the sticking of clay on rubber shoes!
                What is there to do? Do you want to live, be able to discuss what you need (((((( crying )))))))
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 28 February 2021 21: 53
                  +3
                  Lyudmila Yakovlevna, this is a good topic.
                  For those who are on the road, both footwear and coating features are very important.


                  https://stihi.ru/2013/10/07/5758
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 28 February 2021 22: 31
                    +4
                    Even more strongly agree !!!!
                    Long live!!!! Uraaaa !!!
                    I'm serious.
                  2. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 1 March 2021 07: 53
                    +2
                    Then I'll pull it out of the bins.

                    https://stihi.ru/2019/06/02/7300

                    Kursk chernozem is serious.
                  3. depressant
                    depressant 1 March 2021 08: 14
                    +3
                    Kursk chernozem is serious.


                    From the Depressant. Abstractly pretentious, on occasion.

                    There was a dog in Chinese sneakers walking along the road
                    and drowned in the mud up to crooked dog's knees.
                    Grandfather, returning home from an indecent party,
                    threw the dog, trembling in chills:
                    "I would wear galoshes!"
                  4. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 1 March 2021 09: 51
                    +3
                    All right.
                    Mayakovsky is recalled:

                    "We are all a bit of a horse" (c).
                  5. depressant
                    depressant 1 March 2021 10: 43
                    +2
                    They beat the hooves. They sang as if:
                    - Mushroom.
                    Grab.
                    Coffin.
                    Rude. -
                    In the wind,
                    shod with ice,
                    the street slipped.
                    Horse for croup
                    crashed,
                    and immediately
                    for the gapers of onlookers,
                    the pants that Kuznetsky came to flare,
                    crowded together,
                    laughter rattled and zazvyakal:
                    - The horse has fallen! -
                    - The horse fell! -
                    Kuznetsky laughed.
                    Only one I
                    His voice did not interfere with howling him.
                    Approached
                    and I see
                    horse eyes ...
                    The street toppled over,
                    flows in its own way ...
                    I came up and see -
                    for a drop of a drop
                    on the muzzle rolls,
                    hiding in the ranks ...
                    And some kind of general
                    bestial longing
                    the lash poured out of me
                    and broke into a rustle.
                    “Horse, don't.
                    Horse, listen -
                    why do you think that you are worse than them?
                    My little child,
                    we are all a bit of a horse,
                    each of us has his own horse. "
                    Maybe
                    - old -
                    and did not need a nanny,
                    maybe my thought seemed to go to her,
                    only
                    horse
                    rushed,
                    got up on my feet,
                    rusted
                    and went.
                    Tailed with a tail.
                    Redheaded child.
                    A cheerful,
                    became a stall.
                    And everything seemed to her -
                    she is a foal,
                    and it was worth living,
                    and it was worth working.

                    The year is 1918. V.V. Mayakovsky, my favorite poet.
                    Piercing.
  • ivan2022
    ivan2022 28 February 2021 17: 43
    +4
    The demolition of monuments is a consequence of the recognition by society that it is ashamed of its history. And does not want to be responsible for what happened before. And this is a symptom! The next step is to demolish such a society. For it, in fact, the demolitions, itself recognized itself as unsuitable. According to the expected forecasts, in the next 10 years the population decline will be several hundred thousand per year. The government cannot afford a demo catastrophe. "No money left". The only solution in this difficult situation is the mass settlement of Russia by Chinese and Asians. The question of monuments will be decided by itself. They will put up their monuments.
    1. pitr_74
      pitr_74 28 February 2021 20: 00
      0
      And how do you assess the demolition of the monuments to Hitler by the Germans, the process of the denazification of Germany? Also condemns? This is their story
      1. Freeman
        Freeman 28 February 2021 20: 55
        0
        Quote: pitr_74
        How do you rate demolition of monuments to Hitler by the Germans, the process of de-Nazification of Germany? Also condemns? This is their story

        Didn't find any photos exactly the monument Hitler (or his demolition).
        So the Germans had nothing to demolish.
        Here are busts and portraits, as many as you like.
      2. ivan2022
        ivan2022 1 March 2021 08: 27
        +1
        Quote: pitr_74
        And how do you assess the demolition of the monuments to Hitler by the Germans, the process of the denazification of Germany? Also condemns? This is their story

        THIS IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION FOR RUSSIA DUE TO ITS "MENTALITY"
        Back in the 19th century, the famous lawyer Vlad. Spasovich wrote that society considers it a crime to "insult" in the sense of "Russian Truth" of the 15th century. And in the modern sense, a crime is a violation of the law. And for this reason, there can be no jury in Russia. Remember the story of A.P. Chekhov's "The Intruder" ... The man unscrewed the railway nuts and did not understand what the investigation blamed him for. He believed that the crime was committed by the state, sending him to jail.
        THAT AND IT! Hitler's Reich was a criminal state because its laws were criminal. This was established by the court in Nuremberg in 1945.
        And the laws of the USSR were not criminal. And crimes in the USSR are crimes against the Soviet power and the state.
        Ponder ... .. Our society in its "Truth of the 15th century" cannot accommodate this.
  • Freeman
    Freeman 28 February 2021 17: 54
    +7
    By the way. About the first photo in the article.
    This is a sculpture - "Lenin with a tablet" "Lenin with a book", installed in Zelenograd in 1969, near the building of the Scientific Center in the Southern Industrial Zone.
    И dismantled in 2009, with the wording - "it is in disrepair".
    In my opinion, it very symbolically reflects the current state of the domestic electronics industry, science and education. / sarcasm / IMHO.
    1. depressant
      depressant 28 February 2021 20: 54
      +2
      Colleague Volnoper, is this Angstrem in the back?
      1. Freeman
        Freeman 28 February 2021 21: 27
        +1
        Quote: depressant
        Colleague Volnoper, is this Angstrem in the back?

        Not. The monument was erected in front of the Scientific Center complex.
        The local name is "Sticks", and the monument at "Puck" lol , where in Soviet times there were six research institutes.
        "Angstrem" behind (Center for National Microelectronics)
        карта: https://yandex.ru/maps/216/zelenograd/?l=sat%2Cskl%2Cstv%2Csta&ll=37.218611%2C55.983965&source=wizbiz_new_map_single&z=17

        Report on the dismantling of the monument with a photo:
        https://www.netall.ru/gnn/130/573/423726.html
        1. depressant
          depressant 28 February 2021 21: 32
          +1
          So this is "Angstrem"!
          Architecture - two production "sticks" and administration - in a "puck". So now everything is wrong there. Or just another name for what was for me "Angstrem". Well, okay ))))
          1. Freeman
            Freeman 28 February 2021 21: 36
            +1
            depressant (lyudmila yakovlevna kuznetsova) Today, 21:32
            So this is "Angstrem"!

            Perhaps in Soviet times, he occupied these buildings.
            Now, as I understand it, these buildings are rented out as "offices".
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 28 February 2021 21: 32
    -5
    Secretaries of the Power ..., a typical secretarial approach ..., but nothing can be done ..., the memory of the Soviet power must be destroyed, the communists destroyed the Soviet power and now they are eradicating the memory of it ...
    1. tatra
      tatra 28 February 2021 21: 57
      +2
      The enemies of the communists have big problems with logic.
      1. Lbbe
        Lbbe 1 March 2021 21: 20
        0
        And the friends of the communists cannot decide in any way with whom they are with the great father of peoples I.V. Stalin or the great Chekist, who destroyed the enemies of the union, but then vilely deserted and vilely rejected the cause of Lenin and supported the accursed Trotsky F.S. Dezrzhinsky, who are you personally with?
    2. ivan2022
      ivan2022 1 March 2021 09: 14
      +3
      Quote: Iskazi
      Secretaries of the Power ..., a typical secretarial approach ..., but nothing can be done ..., the memory of the Soviet power must be destroyed, the communists destroyed the Soviet power and now they are eradicating the memory of it ...


      And who would you like to call communists? How do communists differ from non-communists ... do you at least understand?
      As for the "secretarial approach" - did they teach you so much at school that if you came up with a word in delirium, then there is a proof of rightness?
  • dust31
    dust31 1 March 2021 03: 19
    -2
    it's great that they won't put philix.
  • U-58
    U-58 1 March 2021 06: 14
    +1
    Ideologically, we have made people and monuments equal.
    If both are "correct", then protectionism, respect and respect are automatically assigned to them.
    But if the wrong ones, be it the living Grudinin, the living Platoshkin or the bronze Dzerzhinsky, then they should not be allowed to go. Nowhere and never.
    Of course, it doesn't smell like democracy here.
    But the absence of such has become such a daily routine of ours that no one even notices it ..
  • Radikal
    Radikal 4 March 2021 21: 44
    +3
    Quote: AlexFly
    You are right, only he chose the wrong side, and Mr.-Comrade Solzhenitsyn was simply engaged in criticism, what's wrong with that? Or are you a clear supporter of endorsements? Are you far from Socrates' expression that the truth is born in a dispute? Discussion of the problem leads to the search for its solution ... And Solzhenitsyn's works are a consequence of his worldview, and if the main thing does not like it, then this only speaks of the scarcity of his perception ..

    But let's not demagoguery, and Socrates, who was against this very demagoguery. wassat
  • Radikal
    Radikal 4 March 2021 21: 47
    +1
    Quote: Lbbe
    And the friends of the communists cannot decide in any way with whom they are with the great father of peoples I.V. Stalin or the great Chekist, who destroyed the enemies of the union, but then vilely deserted and vilely rejected the cause of Lenin and supported the accursed Trotsky F.S. Dezrzhinsky, who are you personally with?

    I agree with you if you express your thought correctly and clearly.