The US Air Force has successfully tested the Golden Horde combat control system

Tested in the USA aviation bombs GBU-39 / B SDB with a control system created under the Golden Horde program. Four rounds of ammunition fired from one fighter simultaneously hit four different targets, Flightglobal reported.

Details of the tests are not given, it is known that four GBU-39 / B SDB bombs launched from a fighter in flight distributed targets among themselves and adjusted their flight so as to hit them simultaneously. The tests were deemed successful, the US Air Force Research Laboratory said.

The Golden Horde project envisages the creation of a combat control system capable of combining various aircraft weapons to exchange data and make certain decisions. Previously, such a system was developed as part of the Gray Wolf program, but in 2020 it was replaced by the new Golden Horde project.

The first information about the Golden Horde project appeared around 2019. The Air Force Research Laboratory (ARFL), in conjunction with the Californian organization Scientific Applications Research Associates, planned to create a universal control system capable of collecting several missiles or bombs in a "flock" for joint work. Potential ammunition included GBU-39 / B SDB bombs, AGM-158 JASSM missiles and AGM-160 MALD missiles.

The first tests of ammunition with the "Golden Horde" system took place in December last year and ended in failure. A software glitch was cited as the cause.

Comments

[rocket757]

Four rounds of ammunition fired from one fighter simultaneously hit four different targets

They increase the attack potential, this is logical, everything is in accordance with their doctrine and capabilities.
We must be able to neutralize all this.

[OgnennyiKotik]

The main thing for them is that these bombs can be carried by almost any manned aircraft and UAV. And well, a lot.
The extreme modernization will allow each B-52 to carry more than one hundred and ten GBU-39 / B.

[rocket757]

They do what they can. And unification is always useful in many respects.
What to say, and most importantly, what to do?
To prepare an effective response, what we can and know how to do well, effectively.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: rocket757

What to say, and most importantly, what to do?

Obviously, you need to work with carriers. It is necessary to develop fighter aircraft, UAVs, AWACS and tankers. With the last two seams. And they are the basis.
No air defense system will be able to provide defense against such a number of strike weapons.

[rocket757]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

No air defense can provide defense against such a number of strike weapons

Axiom - the best air defense, these are their TANKS on ... and further down the list, where they must put "order".
And now FACT, in the USSR, in Russia, air defense - missile defense is a whole complex of means, shock and immediate protection.
And the military doctrine of Russia does not provide for an option to turn the other cheek when you were smacked on the first.
A small, small-town war will not work, everything will fly quickly ... to the Tartars of the Tatars.

[Vol4ara]

Quote: rocket757

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

No air defense can provide defense against such a number of strike weapons

Axiom - the best air defense, these are their TANKS on ... and further down the list, where they must put "order".
And now FACT, in the USSR, in Russia, air defense - missile defense is a whole complex of means, shock and immediate protection.
And the military doctrine of Russia does not provide for an option to turn the other cheek when you were smacked on the first.
A small, small-town war will not work, everything will fly quickly ... to the Tartars of the Tatars.

The tanks of one country really wanted to go to the airfields of another, but the bottom line was Karabakh, too, and remained smoldering with black smoke on the roadsides and in the ravines.

[rocket757]

Quote: Vol4ara

The tanks of one country really wanted to go to the airfields of another, but in the bottom line - fucked up and

In addition to the Wishlist, you need to have SKILLS.
Everything is simpler / more complicated with us, there are skilled workers, so we don’t need to use the necessary application, together with the forced ones, throw it up ... and EVERYTHING!

[Cananecat]

So much for a breakthrough in the air defense system ...

[rocket757]

There is no impenetrable PROTECTION system, so it comes with it .... a lot of things.

[hydrox]

Here you are right, the Yankees have achieved a good result.
It remains only to find out whether the Yankees managed to take the next step: to organize the retargeting of these four power supply units to other targets after the launch.
If the Yankees already know how to do this, then the fight against such BP will represent the solution of the most difficult tactical and mathematical problem with a significant decrease in the percentage of successful defeat of the GBU (respectively, with an increase in the probability of successful implementation of the GBU of its task). It is our happiness if the Yankees boasted or exaggerated their achievements.

[hydrox]

I will decipher a little.
If a swarm of our drones (with AI) encounters a swarm of such GBUs, then a fairly clear task of distributing targets in a swarm is not the most difficult task in determining the hazard ratio of a target.
But if there is a retargeting of the GBU, it may also be necessary to retarget the components inside our swarm of interception drones - to successfully solve such a problem, the AI ​​speed may simply not be enough)

[tikhonov66]

"... But if there is a retargeting of the GBU, it may also be necessary to retarget the components inside our swarm of intercept drones - to successfully solve such a problem, the AI ​​speed may simply not be enough)
..."
- uh ... you are implying that YOU know IN ADVANCE what targets will be attacked by that "swarm" ?!
I give a tooth - that you DO NOT KNOW ...
- and if you don’t know - then WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE TO YOU?
Sho "statically", sho "dynamically" - WHAT.

[rocket757]

For every entu with a thread, there is a bolt with a reverse thread!
I don't know who thinks / thinks what, I have no doubt that our opponents will not make such gifts with disguise and no air defense at all !!!
We have air defense, this is such an extensive complex of means, methods and other measures, which perhaps no one else has !!!
So sho will fly a helluva lot of vumnyh bombs do not know where, do not know how completely crazy !!! By the way, their carriers are likely to fly debris to the ground !!!
Of course, there is NO absolute protection, everyone knows that, you can push through any, having significantly superior resources, BUT, resources, by the time the debris of the carriers fly to the ground, begin to burn and explode and ... and then it is better not to fantasize, because all the same it turns out that we will fly to Tartar Tatars, that's it!
The prospect is not happy.

[hydrox]

In-in, swarm on swarm - and we will have nothing to do with it, and these swarms will already self-govern, self-fight, self-aim, and we will only have to jump from the bridge into the water and not even try to swim out.

[tikhonov66]

"... and we only have to jump from the bridge into the water and not even try to swim out
..."
- we will get "IN PARADISE", and they - "JUST DIE"
Teach materiel!

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: rocket757

because all the same it turns out that we will fly to Tartar Tatars, that's it!

There is a huge difference here, because, as the President said, we will go to heaven, and they will simply die.

[rocket757]

The difference is special ... not very much, BUT, do what you must and be what will be! That's the whole philosophy today.

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: rocket757

The difference is special ... not very much, BUT, do what you must and be what will be! That's the whole philosophy today.

In what sense?
There is no difference between non-existence and eternal life in the Kingdom of Heaven?
Would you like to see an article about insulting feelings?

[rocket757]

But this is precisely the answer - do what you must !!! and I SHOULD NOT tell anyone only pleasant things, I will speak on garlic and .... come what may! OUR then will come and present the bill to everyone!

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: rocket757

OUR then will come and present the bill to everyone!

And "yours" is, forgive me, who? Under a striped flag, under a zhovtoblakit one, under a Turkish one, or perhaps under a Chinese one?

[rocket757]

Red, sickle hammer!

[Narak-zempo]

https://stihi.ru/2016/05/04/9154

[rocket757]

Ours will come, because ... at least those whom we ourselves will bring up!

[eklmn]

It remains only to find out whether the Yankees managed to take the next step: to organize the retargeting of these four power supply units to other targets after the launch.

From orig. articles:
(lane google)

... A small diameter bomb is a 110 kg munition with retractable wings that allow it to fly over 40 nautical miles (75 km) to a target. During its journey to its original target, a variant of this gliding bomb of the Golden Horde must inspect, exchange information with other joint bombs, and then decide, whether the best targets are available to strike.

I think that by the phrase “the best targets to strike” is meant those that were laid in memory before launch. We tested 4 bombs for 4 targets, but probably the option of 4 bombs for 6 targets is possible (some targets are available / inaccessible, more / less dangerous, etc.). Then the AI ​​of these bombs will have to determine the priority.

[Aerodrome]

Americans do not even know the word "horde", here the translation is hellish, the word "swarm" or "flock" is more applicable ... it becomes, as it were, more adequate.

[Doctor]

Americans do not even know the word "horde", here the translation is hellish, the word "swarm" or "flock" is more applicable ... it becomes, as it were, more adequate.

Exactly!
Thank. We've already had a whole battle about the Horde here.
And the Americans do not even know. Oh, they don't know ...

horde [hɔːd] noun

gang, mob, gang, mob
(gang, crowd)
pack
(flock)
horde, horde
(swarm)

[hydrox]

So I say that fighting small performers is a more difficult, costly and not always successful task, but then it turns out that it is necessary to follow our not the most humane Doctrine: as soon as enemy carriers in the composition of no more than a squadron broke away from the runway, then than before we will try to shoot them ALL, the less ground losses we will have

[Sanichsan]

Quote: hydrox

So I say that fighting small performers is a more difficult, costly and not always successful task.

tell me, when the carriers of these ammunition were equated to hospitals and forbidden to attack?

[Real Pilot]

And if you knock down the carrier before resetting, then fine

Plus, all the failures were due to software glitches. And our electronic warfare means work well, which has been repeatedly confirmed in practice. So, such a connection of aerial bombs seems useful, but in reality it may turn out to be even worse for those who use them against a strong enemy: individual guidance is more difficult to shoot down, they fly autonomously. But if the network-centric guidance system fails, then EVERYONE will miss!

And one moment. I like the humor and self-criticism / self-justification of Americans: the "golden horde" in terms of financial investments may well be such ...

[Magic archer]

In general, an idea that seemed fantastic 10 years ago. But flocks of UAVs and soon flocks of missiles and bombs, this is already a reality. And we cannot lag behind

[Magog_]

What is meant by "lagging behind"? Airborne sighting systems SVP-24 - is it a lag or advanced technology? To fight, for example, against ISIS (banned in Russia), should such expensive ammunition be created and used (in this case, guided bombs and missiles)? And in a global nuclear conflict, this bombing technology is unlikely to bring a decisive advantage. For provocations in Syria - yes, there will be success at the first stage. But, if you do not "chew snot", as our politicians and diplomats do, then it is very possible to suppress such attacks by military means (including electronic warfare).

[tikhonov66]

"... In general, an idea that seemed fantastic 10 years ago.
..."
- BOO-HA-HA !!
P-1000 “Volcano” (Navy URAV index (missiles): 3M70) - Soviet / Russian anti-ship missile system (ASM). It is a development of the P-500 Basalt system

Titanium alloys were used in the design of the anti-ship missiles, thereby reducing the body armor protection. In the missile of the complex, an inertial control system was used with the possibility of making adjustments from a radar homing head, developed at the Central Research Institute "Granit". The developer of the control system, designer A. Chizhov, onboard RTA designer B. Godlinik. The autopilot was developed by the designer A. Kuchin, the on-board computer, designer V. Nikoltsev. The selection of targets by the rocket was carried out either in automatic mode, or using telemetry, or with the possibility of combining modes. The autopilot and on-board computers (A21 and B9) were assembled on the latest element base at that time, and were seriously different from similar solutions of the Basalt complex. The designers were able to improve the jamming characteristics of the radar homing head by creating an improved on-board computer.

When pointing a rocket, the algorithm used to select the main target in the group of ships was used. When launching, the rocket received the coordinates of the target and passed the main part of the trajectory with the radar sighting device turned off. At the final part of the trajectory, the rocket was reduced to the target, and the reticle was automatically switched on, with the help of which the coordinates were refined and the target was captured. In this case, the onboard equipment was used to analyze the size of the targets, the position relative to the given coordinates of the target. Such an algorithm provided the missile with the capture of the largest target in the group of ships.

To overcome the anti-missile and air defense of the enemy, the missile was provided with anti-aircraft maneuvering algorithms at low altitudes.

The main thing for the new missiles is the elements of the collective intelligence - in flight they exchange information and distribute targets among themselves.

A single rocket always picks the largest target.

Since the firing range is very large, the rocket is launched approximately at the place where the enemy ships are found. When approaching a given location, the rocket turns on the radar head and actively searches for the target. IF THE LAUNCH IS MASSIVE (i.e. ROY of missiles) - then when a target is detected, EVERY ROCKET that has detected a target - REPORTS about it to ALL OTHER ROCKETS - PARTICIPANTS OF THE IMPACT.

The terms of reference were issued ... in 1979 (!!!) - i.e. 42 (FORTY TWO !!!) years ago ...
The first full-scale launch - December 22, 1983 - i.e. 38 (THIRTY EIGHT !!!) years ago.
The complex was put into service - December 18, 1987 - i.e. 34 (THIRTY FOUR !!!) years ago ..

- LEARN THE MATCH, your mother!
in 1990-2000-2010 - the USSR - was the CHAMPION in the "arms race" ...
and bypassed the US for 20 years!
By the way - the first interception on the trajectory of a ballistic warhead (3 km / sec) - NOT (!) With a NUCLEAR ammunition - was carried out in the USSR ... - in 1961 - 4 months after Gagarin's flight). Mattress toppers repeated THIS result - in 1982. - in 20 years...

[Bar1]

Golden Horde?
What impudence, this is OUR name of the Golden Horde, Sarai - it was all on our lands.
It is very strange how these pin_dos, instead of their traditional dragons and all sorts of hellish lights, suddenly decided to steal our terminology.

[Egoza]

Quote: Bar1

It is very strange how these pin_dos, instead of their traditional dragons and all sorts of hellish lights, suddenly decided to steal our terminology.

Well, so they realized that against OUR Golden Horde their dragons and hellish fires do not pull at all. So, we decided to try to switch to our terminology. Yes, just all the same they will fail after failure. You know, the technique is now cunning, and the soul of the creator also attracts itself. And who is our "bearer of the idea"? That's right, Genghis Khan. Well, well, he will twist them into a ram's horn. Only Russia could deal with the Horde. And Americans have little guts! They themselves will die from it.

[Bar1]

Quote: Egoza

They themselves will die from it.

This is not the point, but the impression is that now there are golivutt everywhere and even in the army theater. We have gremlins, they have a golden horde.

[Doctor]

Golden Horde?
What impudence, this is OUR name of the Golden Horde, Sarai - it was all on our lands.
It is very strange how these pin_dos, instead of their traditional dragons and all sorts of hellish lights, suddenly decided to steal our terminology.

well, so they realized that against OUR Golden Horde their dragons and hellish fires do not pull at all. So, we decided to try to switch to our terminology.

Funny interpretation.

Since when did the Golden Horde become "OUR"? Ever since Batu, right in this Horde, ordered the execution of Mikhail Chernigovsky for refusing to worship their idols?

The Americans are trolling us. It is hinted that the GBU-39 / B SDB will keep Russia in subjection, as the khans once did.

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

Since when did the Golden Horde become "OUR"? Ever since Batu, right in this Horde, ordered the execution of Mikhail Chernigovsky for refusing to worship their idols?

the official history does not answer some questions, especially with regard to the military conquests of Batu's campaign. According to the OI, Russia was part of the Golden Horde and is, let's say, the legal successor, because ALL the lands of the Golden Horde entered Russia / Russia.
Or do you prefer that the United States is the successor to the Golden Horde?

[Doctor]

the official history does not answer some questions, especially with regard to the military conquests of Batu's campaign. According to the OI, Russia was part of the Golden Horde and is, let's say, the legal successor, because ALL the lands of the Golden Horde entered Russia / Russia.
Or do you prefer that the United States is the successor to the Golden Horde?

Yes, now there are many pseudo-historians with different versions. But I think the staff sticks to the classics.
I don't like it, but yes, they are hinting that the United States is the successor of the Golden Horde.

Or do you think they decided to honor Russia and named their weapons after the ancient Russian state?

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

Or do you think they decided to honor Russia and named their weapons after the ancient Russian state

The West / Catholicism has created a single information field of the past, which is called the Official History of the OI.
OI is essentially one big screen to hide the real story.
Was there a Golden Horde in reality? Perhaps even yes, because there were many hordes, Nagai, Kalmyk, Cossack in the Wild Field, Cossack in today's Kazakhstan.
It was the Bolsheviks who, instead of the Cossacks, called the local Mongoloids the Kozha tribes and the Argyns-Kazakhs.
And this today's American attack says on the contrary, that "... we say we remember who invented YOUR PLACE in history, so that you don't forget"
Well, those like you are happy to try, shout that our history is the same as the Americans are telling us.
But we will not listen to them.

[Doctor]

Well, those like you are happy to try, shout that our history is the same as the Americans are telling us.
But we will not listen to them.

Did Americans write 18 volumes of Archeology of the USSR too?

https://www.archaeolog.ru/ru/el-bib/el-cat/el-series/arch-sssr

Create something like this to prove your version, and we, too, will listen to you with pleasure.

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

Did Americans write 18 volumes of Archeology of the USSR too?

you can giggle silly as much as you like, but on the ruins of the Sarai it is not written that this is the Sarai, on the ruins of Troy it is not written that this is Troy, on the ruins of Pompeii it is also not written that this is Pompeii.

Archeology, wherever you turn the tongue and out.
Written sources - manuscripts can be REWRITED.
And the reality, such as the Zmievy Vala or the Zakamskaya Line, which is NOT STUDYED by the OI and remain in the ignorance of historical science, they are of the type "not interesting". This is this "archeology"

[Doctor]

you can giggle silly as much as you like, but on the ruins of the Sarai it is not written that this is the Sarai, on the ruins of Troy it is not written that this is Troy, on the ruins of Pompeii it is also not written that this is Pompeii.

Archeology, wherever you turn the tongue and out.
Written sources - manuscripts can be REWRITED.
And the reality, such as the Zmievy Vala or the Zakamskaya Line, which is NOT STUDYED by the OI and remain in the ignorance of historical science, they are of the type "not interesting". This is this "archeology"

You just don't know what the scientific method of knowing the world is.
In short, it consists of 4 stages.

1. Statement of the problem.
2. Formation of the theory.
3. Conducting an experiment (key stage!) To test the theory.
4. Interpretation of the result, confirming or refuting the theory.

All this is formalized in the form of a dissertation.
Which must then be protected.
And not in VO, but in front of specialists who have devoted their whole lives to this area.

Try it.

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

In short, it consists of 4 stages.

1. Statement of the problem.
2. Formation of the theory.
3. Conducting an experiment (key stage!) To test the theory.
4. Interpretation of the result, confirming or refuting the theory

throw your theory down the toilet.
I will tell you what happens in archeology in practice.
During the Soviet era, the archaeologist Sarionidi discovered the so-called Kushan kingdom in Central Asia.
In his book, he wrote that a lot of gold was dug up, there is only one problem DATING artifacts and a coin is needed for dating. And this coin - Roman, then of course, was found and therefore all these gold items were dated by the Roman period.
This is your archeology.
For this, Sarionidi was awarded by Western historians as an "outstanding" archaeologist, such as a rogue and a thief - Schliemann.

[Doctor]

throw your theory down the toilet.
I will tell you what happens in archeology in practice.
During the Soviet era, the archaeologist Sarionidi discovered the so-called Kushan kingdom in Central Asia.
In his book, he wrote that a lot of gold was dug up, there is only one problem DATING artifacts and a coin is needed for dating. And this coin - Roman, then of course, was found and therefore all these gold items were dated by the Roman period.
This is your archeology.
For this, Sarionidi was awarded by Western historians as an "outstanding" archaeologist, such as a rogue and a thief - Schliemann.

Maybe. Errors, fraudsters, facts that do not fit into the general theory - all this is there. And experts know very well about them.
But this does not mean that due to isolated moments it is necessary to discard all the previous accumulated experience.

Shift the entire previous historical layer, as Einstein once shifted the Planck, and you, too, will enter History.

But start with a conversation with an employee of the Department of History of Russia until the beginning of the XNUMXth century, Faculty of History of Moscow State University, prof., Doctor of Medical Sciences, Anton Anatolyevich Gorsky.

http://www.hist.msu.ru/departments/8813/people/teachers/16604/

He has a disser theme - "The Word about Igor's Regiment" - "The Word about the Destruction of the Russian Land" - "Zadonshchina": source study problems.

So discuss with him the problems of historical sources.

Just first visit the Department of Source Studies (yes, yes, there is one!), There they will give you a couple of hundred disers to study.

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

Maybe. Errors, fraudsters, facts that do not fit into the general theory - all this is there. And experts know very well about them.

historians are based on FALSE methods. They consider history to be a science, but in fact this area of ​​knowledge is not a science. Because the MAIN thing is that the dating of events is based on incorrect or generally deliberately false methods of dating artifacts.
The famous radiocarbon method is terribly inaccurate and even in theory relies on some kind of invented UNIFORM inflow of radioactive carbon isotopes into the Earth's atmosphere, if only because the Earth moving around the Sun turns out to be in different places in space with different levels of radiation, which no one has ever studied.
Dendrochronological calibration is complex and flawed in its essence and is also different for different places and different trees.
In short, all your "history" is far-fetched and for only one to distract people from the REAL history.

Quote: Arzt

Shift the entire previous historical layer, as Einstein once shifted the Planck, and you will also enter History

look for what Einstein was given a Nobel Prize and everything will fall into place.
Stoletov discovered THREE LAWS of the photoelectric effect and wrote down working formulas for calculating the photoeffect current, which are used in the same night vision devices, and Einstein received the prize for simply writing a formula for some kind of discrete energy of an electron's output. just a false quantum theory.
In short, some Jews encouraged another Jew and glorified him.

As for the consideration of the dissertation, this is, in principle, a real path, but it is too long and who will undertake this, reread all the sources?

[Doctor]

The radiocarbon method is terribly inaccurate

Dendrochronological calibration is complex and flawed in nature

A lot of monographs have also been written on the accuracy of these (and other) methods.
Everything counts.

The question is different: these methods are not satisfied - suggest your own, more accurate.

As for the consideration of the dissertation, this is, in principle, a real path, but it is too long and who will undertake this, reread all the sources?

ABOUT! You have come to the heart of the problem.

What we chat about on the forum or with the guys over a beer is a JOB for some.
They go to it, study sources and primary sources, go on expeditions, write reports, and then try to prove something of their own to other wise guys.

Sometimes it works.

Do you know how to start a dissertation on any topic?

WITH LITERATURE REVIEW on this specific issue.
Fresh. Over the past 3-5 years.
From 100 (candidate) to 300 (doctoral) sources.
Basic monographs, articles in periodicals, previous dissertations.
Domestic and foreign.
Published in serious scientific journals approved by the Higher Attestation Commission.

For what? And in order not to repeat.
And in order to move on to the second part of the Marlezon ballet - to substantiate the ACTUALITY of the PROBLEM.

If you decide to investigate the structure of the distribution of caps from under empty beer bottles after February 23 on Leninsky Prospekt, who will be interested in this? What is the relevance?

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

What we chat about on the forum or with the guys over a beer is a JOB for some.

Yes, of course. Let me give you an example, I will cite the work of the most important / leader of the historical science of the USSR, archaeologist Rybakov, the work "Russian maps of Muscovy"
you can download and take a look.

http://moscowstate.ru/rybakov-b-a-russkie-karty-moskovii-xv-nachala-xvi-veka/

in this book Rybakov examines old maps, at the beginning by Antonio Vida and Jenkinsovna.
In both maps, TARTARIUS is large throughout the map. But academician Rybakov simply does not notice this name and talks about anything, about the Horde, about Muscovy, and simply does not read the largest name.
Is this what is called science?

[Doctor]

In both maps, TARTARIUS is large throughout the map. But academician Rybakov simply does not notice this name and talks about anything, about the Horde, about Muscovy, and simply does not read the largest name.
Is this what is called science?

Flipped through. Rybakov examines the maps of Muscovy.
Tartary is not Muscovy. Why should he mention her?
There, and a piece of China is visible, so what?

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

Flipped through. Rybakov examines the maps of Muscovy.
Tartary is not Muscovy. Why should he mention her?
There, and a piece of China is visible, so what?

yeah fucking.
Probably because it is there. It is an objective reality and history, moreover. And this is NOT the ONLY source with Tartary to ignore.

[Doctor]

yeah fucking.
Probably because it is there. It is an objective reality and history, moreover. And this is NOT the ONLY source with Tartary to ignore.

I do not enter. Australia was already there then.
But his work is called "Russian Maps of MOSKOVIA".

[Bar1]

it turns out according to your logic, that since such a name, then you need to read only Russian and Muscovites?

[Doctor]

it turns out according to your logic, that since such a name, then you need to read only Russian and Muscovites?

There is Muscovy - the political and geographical name of the Russian state adopted in Western sources.
It is depicted on the maps in the form of hotel principalities, as it was in the era of fragmentation.

There is Tartaria - the political and geographical name of the regions from the Caspian to the Pacific Ocean and to the borders of China and India, adopted in Western sources, inhabited mainly by nomads of the Mongoloid race.

[Bar1]

Quote: Arzt

There is Muscovy - the political and geographical name of the Russian state adopted in Western sources.

Have you ever wondered what Moscow is? The origin of this word is unclear. OI sculpts a hunchback and does not inspire confidence.
According to my and not only my observations, some sources in Moscow before the 18th century were not Christians, but Old Believers, sun worshipers, and they had their own temples with tops in the form of the Sun and the Moon / Month.
Here is a plan of old Moscow, where the temples had tops in the form of a crescent: this is the arrow of the Moscow River and the Yauza-Tagan.

Therefore, the appearance of these temples looked like mosques, in French / Anglitsky-Moski. Therefore, this city also got its name from non-Russians-Moscow. But then, what was the name of this city? If Moscow is the 3rd Rome according to Philotheus, then in Russian it will be MIR on the contrary. Most likely this city was called Mir, and its reflections are Rome1-Tsar-City / Constantinople and Rome2-Rome-on the Apennines.

Quote: Arzt

There is Tartaria - the political and geographical name of the regions from the Caspian to the Pacific Ocean and to the borders of China and India, accepted in Western sources

no Tartary was from the Danube to the Pacific Ocean. From Tartary there were the Tatra mountains and some terms, sauce Tartar, cake. Since the 19th century in the English fleet there has always been a ship called Tartarus. Jules Verne has a novel "Mikhail Strogoff" about the war between the Republic of Ingushetia and Tartary , but only in French, the Russian translation was distorted and RI was at war with Bukharia.
There is an old map where the Po river in Italy is called Tartarus.
By the way, the very name of Tartary is clearly not Russian again, but what about Russian then? And in Russian
-DarDaria
in Russian there are many names for Dar
-Krasnodar
-Ekaterinodar
-Obdoria
-Condoria
-Amu Daria
-Cheese Daria
here is a map of 1757
Budzhak and Ochakov tartars.

[Doctor]

Have you ever wondered what Moscow is? The origin of this word is unclear. OI sculpts a hunchback and does not inspire confidence.
According to my and not only my observations, some sources in Moscow before the 18th century were not Christians

And in Russian
-DarDaria

I’m talking to specialists. Now to the linguists.
They somehow trolled Mikhail Zadornov with his "theories" of the origin of words.
Sorted out his name.
Zadornov: ass - ass, op - yell (plow), -ov - the end.

Linguistics as a science 4000 if th. You can walk to the monkeys.

[Usher]

Why do you believe some English sources? It is strange to consider the true source of a foreign state that did not even send scientists to Siberia. And the whole history of hundreds of peoples, which is marked by various chronicles, legends, ancestral books, archaeological research, goes down the drain, just because some kind of Timur poking everyone into some kind of indistinct English encyclopedia of the 18th century? Are you out of your mind? Where do you come from? scientists, historians, ethnographers, archaeologists spend their lives to restore, preserve and transmit knowledge and traditions. And then it seemed to some "pravodrubu radnover" that something was consonant there, DarDariya from the word Give and what else? There are so many things I can think of.

[Bar1]

Quote: Usher

Why do you believe some English sources?

you and I didn’t drink at brotherhood, if you please say so.

There are a lot of cards with tartaria and it's not just Britannica.

Quote: Usher

There are so many things I can think of.

you can't think of anything, well, something?

[Disant]

According to the OI, Russia was part of the Golden Horde

all! ??
and maybe she was - to put it mildly - a vassal-dependent? The fact that taxes helped to collect - no one denies. But this is where the attraction "about joining the composition", as it seems to me, ends

[Bar1]

Quote: Disant

all! ??
and maybe she was - to put it mildly - a vassal-dependent? The fact that taxes helped to collect - no one denies. But this is where the attraction "about joining the composition", as it seems to me, ends

that there were no conquests? Ryazan, Kiev, was not it? You don't even know that.
You are not on the historical forum, but here they decided to argue.

in general, I believe in such a state, it is closer to the truth.

this is a French map of 1754 from the time of Alexei Mikhailovich

[Disant]

You are not on the historical forum, but here they decided to argue.

I? argue on a historical topic !? I carefully expressed my opinion
.
Bar1, re-read and revise everything you wrote to me with a fresh eye. This is from the category of the Black Sea digging. Recheck your "sources" for the map - it's awful - it's not even the Middle Ages to fantasize about.
.

that there were no conquests? Ryazan, Kiev, was not it?

Well, a film for children of primary school age, perhaps look - Kolovrat, was shown in the cinema in recent years - this is with regards to Ryazan - what was the conquest there? there was a campaign-genocide of one of the tumens, so that there was no blow in the back on the rear. What the hell is conquest.

[Bar1]

Quote: Disant

Recheck your "sources" for the map - it's awful - it's not even the Middle Ages to fantasize about.

here is a completely academic edition of Academician Rybakov "Russian Maps of Muscovy"

http://moscowstate.ru/rybakov-b-a-russkie-karty-moskovii-xv-nachala-xvi-veka/

there an academician from history leads old maps on which large all over the map - TARTARIA.

[Disant]

Bar1, flipped through with pleasure. This book with maps is completely out of your pocket.
.
about the name itself - Tartary - its complete absence in the maps of Western sources - I did not say anything.

[Bar1]

Quote: Disant

Bar1, flipped through with pleasure. This book with maps is completely out of your pocket.

Why so?

Quote: Disant

about the name itself - Tartary - its complete absence in the maps of Western sources

I laid out a French map of 1754 for you at the top, and you say "complete absence"?

[Disant]

Why so?

this is a French map of 1754 from the time of Alexei Mikhailovich

because your map is very immodest for the seventeenth century along the western border, figuratively speaking. book - maps until the 16th century
I am even afraid to discuss the southern, eastern and northern borders of the so-called Tartary.

[Bar1]

Quote: Disant

because your map is very immodest for the seventeenth century along the western border, figuratively speaking. book - maps until the 16th century
I am even afraid to discuss the southern, eastern and northern borders of the so-called Tartary.

no problem, here's a THOUSAND old maps from the 15th to the 20th century and EVERYWHERE there is Tartary.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/html/und/cartes/leurope-en-cartes/cartes-générales?mode=desktop

[Usher]

Quote: Bar1

Quote: Disant

all! ??
and maybe she was - to put it mildly - a vassal-dependent? The fact that taxes helped to collect - no one denies. But this is where the attraction "about joining the composition", as it seems to me, ends

that there were no conquests? Ryazan, Kiev, was not it? You don't even know that.
You are not on the historical forum, but here they decided to argue.

in general, I believe in such a state, it is closer to the truth.

this is a French map of 1754 from the time of Alexei Mikhailovich

Do you know when the La Perouse Strait and the Tatar Strait were discovered? And why was it called that? It was opened in 1849, but La Perouse in 1787 did not discover that it was a strait and until 1849 it was believed that Sakhalin was a peninsula, which helped in the Crimean War. Since the foreigners did not have a strait on the maps. These are the civilized European people for you. And they called it that because

The strait was named "Tatar", because on the maps of the XNUMXth century, when it was discovered, the regions of Southern Siberia, the Far East and most of China belonged to a certain Eastern or Chinese Tartary (Tartary) - semi-fantastic country, which existed in the western cartographic and cultural tradition from the Middle Ages up to the beginning. XIX century. The origin of the name of the country (and the strait) is explained by the fact that in the old days the Tatars in Russia and Western countries were called not only a specific people - Tatar, but also all other Turkic (and not only) peoples of Eurasia, who lived east of the Urals and the Caspian Sea right up to Sakhalin.

and on your supposedly map of the 18th century, the outlines of the Far East are clearly represented. Which already hints at the fact that this is a fake, for people like you.

[Bar1]

Quote: Usher

that in the old days not only a specific people - Tatar, but also all other Turkic (and not only) peoples of Eurasia who lived east of the Urals and the Caspian Sea right up to Sakhalin were called Tatars in Russia and Western countries.

nonsense from OI. Call all peoples Tatars.

[Usher]

Quote: Bar1

Quote: Usher

that in the old days not only a specific people - Tatar, but also all other Turkic (and not only) peoples of Eurasia who lived east of the Urals and the Caspian Sea right up to Sakhalin were called Tatars in Russia and Western countries.

nonsense from OI. Call all peoples Tatars.

Of course it's nonsense, but the Western scientists to whom you refer and on the basis of which you draw your fantastic and ridiculous conclusions believed in it.

[Quadro]

Quote: Disant

According to the OI, Russia was part of the Golden Horde

all! ??
and maybe she was - to put it mildly - a vassal-dependent? The fact that taxes helped to collect - no one denies. But this is where the attraction "about joining the composition", as it seems to me, ends

Except that Novgorod was not included. And yes, then almost all of Russia was part of the horde. The princes recognized the khan as a tsar (Caesar), in Russia at that time there were no tsars, which seems to be hinting. Russia also played in politics on the same side with the horde. Again, she did not pay tribute, but taxes. Even in order to gain power in Russia, it was first necessary to obtain permission (label) from the khan. Since when did the overlords care who was in power with the vassal? And here the cadres were actively moving. And in spite of the cruelty it was better than the European occupation, the Horde did not get into religion and culture, the main thing was to send money, recognize our power, and consult with personnel.

[Disant]

in Russia at that time there were no tsars, which seems to be hinting.

what is this hinting at? Principalities have become ulus ?!
.

Again, I didn't pay tribute, but taxes.

Principality "in quick accessibility" paid tribute! If there were khan's representatives, then they acted only as counters.
.

And yes, then almost all of Russia was part of the horde. The princes recognized the khan as king (Caesar)

did you come up with it? Wake up - this Mongol-Tatar yoke hierarchy was higher than the nearest khan, who was paid tribute. Here above by correspondence, Bar1 will not let you lie - he has a green map for half the world. It was a splash of the Mongol empire "from sea to sea", and they infused the conquered peoples into themselves. For some reason, only the Russian lands were palisades made of stakes, then wolf pits, then they built notches, then they scattered through the forests, then the troops were put up for battle. Have you heard of them during the battles?

[Disant]

Only Russia could deal with the Horde.

can still - give a worthy rebuff? reprisal - when and where?

[Andros]

We need to sue them for using a historic trademark. And to declare "the zeya of the Orlyntsi matter". Maybe that will burn out.

[Flooding]

The network-centric concept made its way to ammunition.
SF in real life.

[Dodikson]

we have anti-ship Granites did it back in the shaggy years

[Flooding]

Quote: Dodikson

we have anti-ship Granites did it back in the shaggy years

Maybe. The USSR gave birth to and implemented many breakthrough ideas and technologies at one time.
But here is a combination of different types of guided munitions fired by different carriers.
I must admit that this is a step forward.

[Dodikson]

in the article and in the mattresses, the type of ammunition was one GBU-39
although yes, the technology will then allow the exchange of all types of ammunition, but the same topic has been developing in our air defense for a long time.
when the data from one SAM is seen by the entire ACS of the air defense and this SAM can be controlled by other KP. and it seems to me that they want to do the exchange of data between the missiles (they wanted to do this when the missile defense system instead of the warhead had to have 4 air defense missiles MD)

[voyaka uh]

There was ONE trial with two Granites. One Granite was the leader, the second was the slave.
On the basis of this single test, a "smart swarm" was declared

[Dodikson]

the test indicates the availability of the technology, and the tests have confirmed the functionality of the technology.
therefore in the description of Granites there is such a function.
by the way, you hardly know about all the tests of Granite

[3danimal]

It's funny that on the basis of this, legends appeared about a highly intelligent swarm created by a country leading in microelectronics.

[askort154]

The US Air Force has successfully tested the Golden Horde combat control system

It's time for our designers, the following hypersonic products
call it, such as: "Columbus 2", "Indian Spear", "Democratizer".

[Constanty]

"Poseidon" doesn't seem like a Russian god to me - by the way

[Installer]

And we will baptize him "this is what the life-giving cross does")))

[Alf]

And by analogy, I remembered how in 91 one Ax flew to Iran, and the other got to the Chinese Embassy ...

[evgen1221]

They will finish badly with the AI ​​once and for all, the skynet will come, they will put on the priests and twist their heads.

[Ros 56]

Will they have Biden for the main Mongol? So he should be on the table to a plastic surgeon, because his eyes should be narrowed.

[boriz]

If I am not mistaken, under the USSR, a group of missiles, after launch, was able to independently distribute and redistribute targets among themselves on the approach to the AUG.
So what is the fundamental novelty here?

[Alf]

Quote: boriz

If I am not mistaken, under the USSR, a group of missiles, after launch, was able to independently distribute and redistribute targets among themselves on the approach to the AUG.
So what is the fundamental novelty here?

So this is new to America ...

[Andros]

Or maybe you really are wrong.

[boriz]

The on-board autonomous selective control system of anti-ship missiles is built on the basis of a three-processor on-board computer (BCVM) with the use of several information channels, which makes it possible to successfully understand a complex jamming environment and distinguish true targets against the background of noise. During a group launch of missiles (salvo), missiles, having detected the enemy with their homing heads, exchange information, identify and distribute targets according to their size, relative position and other parameters. The on-board computer contains electronic data on modern classes of ships; tactical information, for example, about the type of orders of ships, which allows the missile to determine what is in front of it - a convoy, aircraft carrier or landing group, and to attack the main targets in its composition; data on countering enemy electronic warfare devices capable of jamming to divert missiles from the target; tactical techniques for evading the fire of air defense means.

PKR Granite. The year of adoption is 1983.

[Andros]

Well, in 1983 there were no cartoons about "unparalleled in the world" ...
It is unlikely that granite in reality is capable of what you described. It looks like a fairy tale. Stupid.

[boriz]

This is a quote from Wiki, which does not differ in love for Russia.
And why on earth should I believe some kind of shit, and not the information that is everywhere.

The missile control system is inertial with correction according to the guidance system, which includes several on-board computers, an active radar homing head (GOS) and an information exchange system between missiles (SOIR) of a salvo with several channels for receiving and transmitting information. The GOS radar antenna is located in the central body of the engine air intake.

The missile guidance algorithms use the logic of choosing the main target in the order of ships. The size of the targets and the distance of targets from the point of the expected coordinates of the target were analyzed. This algorithm made it possible to select the largest target in the order of ships. Later, a similar algorithm was used on the Vulkan anti-ship missile system.

In a group launch of missiles after a target is detected by the missile's radar (radio-locating sight), target distribution takes place using the SOIR, according to the type of target entered at launch. After determining the coordinates of the targets assigned during target distribution and their movement parameters, the missile with the radar off is lowered to a low altitude and flies to the point of the intended target coordinates. When approaching the point of the expected coordinates of the target, the radar turns on and the target is locked. Each anti-ship missile system reaches its goal in accordance with the previously carried out target allocation.

https://dfnc.ru/katalog-vooruzhenij/morskie-raketnye-kompleksy/p-700-granit/
That is, there was such a system on Vulcan.
He himself worked then in the defense industry, so he was used to respecting it.

[Andros]

You can believe in anything, but sometimes you have to think. It's smooth on paper ... The missile capabilities are much more modest ...

[boriz]

Empty chatter.

[Andros]

Undoubtedly!

[boriz]

I mean that your words are not supported by anything.
If you can't, don't bother.

[Andros]

And yours is also not too much - wiki on such topics should not be taken seriously.

[boriz]

Can't you count to two? Or don't you read well?
The second quote was not from Wiki.

[Andros]

Well, in the second quote, the capabilities of the missiles are not so fantastic. The missile chooses only the largest target based on a small number of parameters known to it - distance, direction, magnitude of the reflected signal, this hardly allows us to talk about target identification, let alone determine the type of order. Smooth on paper ...
But, of course, the USSR had quite a few planes to adjust. But this is already different ...

[boriz]

Where in the quote about the plane for the adjustment?
The rest is a stream of consciousness.
If you cannot substantiate your words somehow, calm down.

[Andros]

Well, let's put your quotes do not look very competent. Technically. Did you work as a janitor in the defense industry?
I wrote about the plane because I thought it was necessary - why should I ask you for permission?

[Usher]

The "radnovers" climbed up the alternatives. With their "Russian" golden hordes and daddy instead of Batu)))

[Comrade Kim]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

No air defense system will be able to provide defense against such a number of strike weapons.

Yes, it will choke on a part of this swarm.
And they can multiply the distance, of course, to the detriment of the quantity.
They will load their B-52 with shock UAVs, and even with a mass of false targets, and on the way, before entering the zone of destruction of our air defense.
Just throw DRGs on their airfields, and blow them up before takeoff.

[VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK]

They stated! And everyone rushed to comment and discuss! They also said they were on the moon! When the people are finally smarter and will not trust the main side of the stamping fake!

[Usher]

Quote: VLADIMIR VLADIVOSTOK

They stated! And everyone rushed to comment and discuss! They also said they were on the moon! When the people are finally smarter and will not trust the main side of the stamping fake!

Well, they were on the moon, it's easy to check. And no one questions normal people. Since there was a space race and that the USSR would have announced that it was a fake long ago. The flights were monitored. And now they are photographing the traces and equipment left behind from expeditions to the moon. Don't throw everything into a heap. This is a favorite trick of the liberals. Recently I had the same case, they discussed a photo of the construction of a tunnel under the English Channel, then some type under the post wrote "this is power, not like building a bridge with the whole country" I asked him, but what does the bridge have to do with it, in the photo tunnel. He began demagoguery and ended up with Putin's palaces. I am shocked by such "people". So you don't have to mix everything up. These are two different things. And the Lunar Program is completely out of topic here.

[Narak-zempo]

We should remind them what the Russians did with the real Golden Horde.

[Vadim237]

For any of their Golden Horde - we have our own shield and sword in the form of the Armor ZRPK in a single air defense system, as well as mobile radars Gamma Casta and Approach just for detecting such mini bombs and missiles at different altitudes.

[Diviz]

It will be fun if they name each bomb by the names of characters from our history. Was a good goose will become fried. Americans with ukrami know our history better than we do.
It is necessary to unite history with the Scandinavians (until they left NATO), India, Siberia.

[meandr51]

After the explosion of the nuclear power plant at the desired point, no one will exchange anything with anyone ...

[Alexey Zigalov]

Good article, thanks. Shows the real trend in the development of autonomous flying combat systems. Only one cuts the ear. Armies fight by statutes. Neither in the American nor in our army in the charter there is no concept of L.A. pack. or swarm ??????