Scientists have expressed another version of the cause of Genghis Khan's death

Among scientists, another version of the death of Genghis Khan (Temuchin), the founder and first khan of the Mongol Empire, appeared. He ruled this empire from 1206 to 1227.

To date, there are several versions about the cause of Genghis Khan's death. According to one of them, death occurred as a result of a fall from a horse, as a result of which the almost 70-year-old (different age data) khan received multiple fractures and other injuries. According to another version, Genghis Khan felt bad after taking the capital of the Tangut kingdom. The reasons for "feeling unwell" are usually described as "associated with a bad climate." There is another version, according to which Genghis Khan in the Tangut kingdom, where his death eventually occurred, contracted a disease that was incurable at that time. At the same time, it is still unknown where the first khan of the Mongol Empire was buried.

In new versions of the reasons for the death of Genghis Khan, scientists point out that Genghis Khan died of "an ancient disease that changed civilizations."

In their reflections, a group of scientists-researchers relies on texts that bear the name “Stories Yuan). They publish their arguments in the IJID (International Journal of Infectious Diseases). The material indicates that, given the plague epidemic that engulfed the Mongol army in 1226, it can be assumed that as a result, the khan also contracted the plague. At the same time, it is emphasized that Genghis Khan died on about the 8th day of this illness.

For obvious reasons, it is impossible to confirm or refute these theses today. One thing is clear: for his time, Genghis Khan lived a rather long life. By the most conservative estimates, he died at the age of 65. According to other sources, at the time of his death he was at least 71 years old. Moreover, for Europe of that time to live up to 50 was considered a great success, even for the rulers.

The Mongol Empire, founded by Genghis Khan, existed for about 90 years. At the same time, its size during its heyday was approximately twice the size of another empire - the Roman one.

Comments

[antivirus]

my throne is a saddle, my glory on the field, the whole world is my power ...

[Temples]

Genghis Khan (the leader of the Mongols from English folk tales) was poisoned by a novice.
This was said by the horse, on the saddle of which markers were found.
And the leader died from the coronavirus in the blade fumble where he was delivered by the headquarters of the bulk.
In the clinic, the poor fellow caught the virus.

This is the information of the scientists of the Armenian radio, which they voiced in response to the remark of the VO scientists that

"Genghis Khan died of" an ancient disease that changed civilizations. "

This is the truth!

Black will not let him lie, because:

Quote: Black

Any of the above versions has the right to exist; all of them, at least, are plausible ...

[antivirus]

so Bulk Uyghur? or a Kipchak? ...................... now everything is clear with him. he was poisoned by a leather folding bowl - he hadn't washed it for a long time on trips ..

[Temples]

Quote: antivirus

so Bulk Uyghur?

Not. Ordinary balabol.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Colleague! You should also not discard early variations of the coronavirus from versions! Is it 19th now? And then maybe the 2nd or 3rd was!)))

[Hunter 2]

Eh ... fortune-telling on coffee grounds is a profitable business, including in the "scientific" environment ... they write articles, they receive royalties - and most importantly, there is no way to check it! What can be analyzed there based on ancient texts? Or there Genghis Khan's hospital card (with analyzes like the tests themselves) was found ?

[Temples]

Quote: Hunter 2

What can be analyzed there based on ancient texts?

Moreover, there are no ancient "Mongolian" texts.
The writing of those who are now called Mongols appeared a hundred years ago. And as it should be written in Cyrillic.

[Temples]

I wonder if the people who put a minus on this comment of mine disagree with what?
With the fact that there are no texts of the ancient "Mongols"?
Or with the fact that the Russians taught modern Mongols to write and it happened only a hundred years ago?
Or is it the Mongols who put a minus in protest against the Cyrillic alphabet? How is KazKhi?

Here at least put a mine, at least plus uy - facts are stubborn things.

[Usher]

Quote: Temples

I wonder if the people who put a minus on this comment of mine disagree with what?
With the fact that there are no texts of the ancient "Mongols"?
Or with the fact that the Russians taught modern Mongols to write and it happened only a hundred years ago?
Or is it the Mongols who put a minus in protest against the Cyrillic alphabet? How is KazKhi?

Here at least put a mine, at least plus uy - facts are stubborn things.

what facts? The Mongols adopted the writing of the Uighurs.

[The leader of the Redskins]

And also a way to pick up the "pluses" or "minuses"!))) It already depends on the understanding of a sense of humor and personal "well-wishers"!))

[Richard]

Colleague! You should also not discard early variations of the coronavirus from versions! Is it 19th now? And then maybe the 2nd or 3rd was!)))

You shouldn't laugh, Igor. You should also not discount the version of the famous sinologist P.I.Kafarov, who in 1033, studying the Chinese, Arab and Persian sources of that time (Ta-ta Tun - Khan, Man Sanbo, Tab-Tengri) put forward the assumption that Genghis Khan died from the "terrible black disease" sent by the gods, presumably the bubonic plague, and was burned in the tent. After which the ashes were covered with earth and salt

[The leader of the Redskins]

I’m not laughing. It's just that now all sores are reduced to coronavirus. Well, I do not pay attention to the lack of a sense of humor among the miners.

[Richard]

It's just that now all sores are reduced to coronavirus.

That's right.
By the way, I apologize to the members of the forum for the ridiculous mistake

You should also not discount the version of the famous sinologist P.I.Kafarov, who in 1033 ...

Of course in 1933

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Richard

the famous Sinologist P.I.Kafarov, who in 1033, studying Chinese, Arabic and Persian sources of that time (Ta-ta Tun - Khan,

What year?

[Richard]

What year?

What's the matter with me today?
PI Kafarov's article was published in two issues of Nekrasov's Sovremennik in 1863 year. It consisted of two parts - "Russian settlement in China in the first half of the XIV century" and "Amazing information extracted from the history of the Chingizid house in China."
In my defense, I can only post a photo of this outstanding figure in the church, diplomacy, history and oriental studies, the creator of the Chinese-Russian dictionary.
Archimandrite Palladium (in the world - Peter Ivanovich Kafarov)

[The black]

Any of the above versions has a right to exist. All of them, at least, are plausible ... and age, and illness, and falling from a horse (injury) If you wish, you can put forward a bunch of versions ... hundreds of years have passed, no one is true will no longer know.

[Destiny]

Yes, rather age, we still do not all live up to 70, and then we lived even less.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Black

Any of the above versions has a right to exist. All of them, at least, are plausible ... and age, and illness, and falling from a horse (injury) If you wish, you can put forward a bunch of versions ... hundreds of years have passed, no one is true will no longer know.

However, if someday his burial is found, then scientists, with the available set of modern technologies, will almost certainly be able to establish the cause of death. Otherwise, dozens of versions will be offered to the layman, including the early coronavirus. The matter remained "small", to find the grave.

[orionvitt]

If the "learned" historians had explained to us who this Genghis Khan really was, and what it was, this incomprehensible "Tatar-Mongol yoke", they would not have asked stupid questions.

[Flooding]

One thing is clear: for his time, Genghis Khan lived a rather long life. According to the most conservative estimates, he died at the age of 65.

Not only a long, but also an extremely fruitful life. In all senses.

[Trapp1st]

Not only a long, but also an extremely fruitful life. In all senses.

Therefore, strangely, he lived to see his age. But I think to this day he is not bored in hell.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Trapp1st

Not only a long, but also an extremely fruitful life. In all senses.

Therefore, strangely, he lived to see his age. But I think to this day he is not bored in hell.

And the pagans did not have hell. So he hangs out quietly somewhere in the Asian version of Valhalla, and does not blow his mustache.

[tihonmarine]

Scientists probably have nothing to do if they dig up 800 years old cases. On assumptions, they build speculations, get money, and powder their brains.

[Trapp1st]

On assumptions, they build speculations, get money, and powder their brains.

It turns out if they were digging the current case they would be politicians?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Trapp1st

It turns out if they were digging the current case they would be politicians?

It would be better to dig the earth, even if it would be useful. And so no benefit, no truth.

[prior]

And how many scientists were in the field of Marxist-Leninist relations, socialist economics, scientific communism ... and all with degrees. Such a scientific "blizzard" was carried, you will hear.
These are the modern ones about Genghis Khan ...
They would benefit from shovels, and for clearing snow, much more benefit.

[ivan2022]

Quote: prior

And how many scientists were there in the field of Marxist-Leninist relations, socialist economics, scientific communism.

So are they scientists? When I was still in school, after reading Lenin's work "State and Revolution", I entered into discourse with a "learned" social science teacher and, as a result, received a warning from the SCHOOL DIRECTOR that I might not get a secondary education certificate. More they had nothing to cover ..... Since then, no, no!
THE BUSINESS IS NOT IN SCIENTIFIC COMMUNISM, BUT IN THAT IN THE "COUNTRY OF SLAVES - THE COUNTRY OF GODS" CANNOT BE COMMUNISM OR CAPITALISM. THERE IS ONLY FEUDALISM.

[prior]

And at school I asked the pioneer leader about Lenin. Why does he seem to me to be a bronze monument, that I cannot imagine that this is a living person, that he slept with Nadezhda Konstantinovna, went to the toilet ...
I was not accepted into the Komsomol ...

[Stirbjorn]

Until the remains of Genghis Khan are found, and most likely no one will find them, there will be many versions of his death.

[pyagomail.com]

A very important topic is raised in the article (haha). It is also necessary to determine whether Genghis Khan (according to other versions Chingachguk or Chingazyuk) was an Indian or a Ukrainian.

[Terenin]

Interesting but brief overview.
According to Nosovsky and Fomenko, Genghis Khan ruled for 12 years and was ... poisoned.
Of course, Fomenko and others like him identified many problems in classical history. But then, clinging to the version they liked, they began to develop it.
It is interesting to read Professor Postnikov criticizing Morozov.

[seregin-s1]

It was hard for Jan. So many pages to write about Genghis Khan ... And here is a paragraph

[evgen1221]

Well, then we are waiting for revelations about the death of Genghis Khan and, without exception, the amperators of Asia from covid.))) Things are old, there is no grave, who will check that?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: evgen1221

business is old, there is no grave, who will check that? petty, you can rub in whatever you want, the main thing is to find your head more authoritatively.

And even if there is a grave, there is still no one to compare DNA with. As they say, "humpback molle", it is impossible to verify.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

At the same time, it is still unknown where the first khan of the Mongol Empire was buried.

as well as who he is, where and whether he was at all
and most importantly, how in several years he managed to unite the nomads, completely breaking their way of life

[Katanikotael]

he was a Buryat, horse-diving.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

At the same time, it is still unknown where the first khan of the Mongol Empire was buried.

as well as who he is, where and whether he was at all
and most importantly, how in several years he managed to unite the nomads, completely breaking their way of life

There were those nomads in Mongolia - the cat cried, so I don't see any problems. But where he got so many of them - here is an ambush.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Doliva63

There were those nomads in Mongolia - the cat cried, so I don't see any problems.

what another problem is called mentality

[Doliva63]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Quote: Doliva63

There were those nomads in Mongolia - the cat cried, so I don't see any problems.

what another problem is called mentality

Are you sure that one and a half dozen Mongolian tribes could affect the mentality of neighboring peoples?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

again
uniting nomads and fundamentally changing the tactics of war is not realistic in 10 years

[Doliva63]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

again
uniting nomads and fundamentally changing the tactics of war is not realistic in 10 years

Come on! Shoigu coped faster
But I agree with you. Some kind of garbage with these Mongols. I don't even remember if they had writing? Well, at least nodular. How else to command armies spread over thousands of kilometers? Messengers who memorized the 60-page order of the khan? Doubtful.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Doliva63

But I agree with you. Some kind of garbage with these Mongols.

it is not clear why they flooded to Europe, where they studied the siege of cities without having them, why did not they go to Novgorod, etc., etc.?

[Million]

What difference does it make? The number, and to hell with it ...
It is important that he left good things behind

[faterdom]

Or maybe he didn't die. Sits somewhere now reading why he died, and smirks slyly into his red beard.
Do not think, just that I have gone crazy, or there, cognac something, purely legally: no body - no business!
And so, if by conservative estimates he was 65, then Sobyanin would not have allowed him to leave the yurt, because he would have been very worried about him. And Siluanov and Golikova would have clamped down on his pension, because they are still young.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Yes, he died, for the women did not bring anyone to good

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Million

What difference does it make? The number, and to hell with it ...
It is important that he left good things behind

And he left the good kuda more than the bad, the appanage princelings such as the bow and the Armenian clown did not stay long in this world. It is a pity that the precepts of Genghis Khan have long been forgotten, and traitors are not cut off their heads

[Aleksandr1971]

Quote: Temples

Quote: Hunter 2

What can be analyzed there based on ancient texts?

Moreover, there are no ancient "Mongolian" texts.
The writing of those who are now called Mongols appeared a hundred years ago. And as it should be written in Cyrillic.

You are not well versed in these matters, but you allow yourself such judgments about the Mongolian writing and its sources. So often the ignorant proclaim all sorts of nonsense with great pomp.

It is now known that the old Mongolian writing was formed in the 12th century on the basis of the Uyghur script, which appeared in the 8th century. That is, not younger than the Cyrillic alphabet. The first known text in the Mongolian language is "Chingiz's stone", dating back to 1224. Well, the main source on the history of the Mongol conquests is the well-known Secret Legend of the Mongols, written by an unknown Mongolian author in 1240.

The Mongols switched to the Cyrillic alphabet during the period of Soviet domination, which has now ended. And with a high probability the same thing will happen to the Cyrillic alphabet in Mongolia as has already happened to it in Central Asia, that is, the Cyrillic alphabet will most likely disappear in Mongolia.

[Aleksandr1971]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

At the same time, it is still unknown where the first khan of the Mongol Empire was buried.

as well as who he is, where and whether he was at all
and most importantly, how in several years he managed to unite the nomads, completely breaking their way of life

You do not know, but anyone who is interested in this question knows. Temuchin was a native of the Mongolian tribe of Kiyat-Borjigin. Temuchin's father is Yesugei-Batur, the leader of the named tribe. Temuchin's mother is Oilun from the Olkhonut tribe.

[Aleksandr1971]

Quote: Katanikotael

he was a Buryat, horse-diving.

Temuchin had nothing to do with the Buryats.
The Buryats are a North Mongolian people who have long been divorced from the Khalkhases.
Temuchin, on the other hand, is from the center of Mongolia, a native of the Borjigins, who formed the core of the Khalkha Mongols.

[Aleksandr1971]

Quote: Flood

One thing is clear: for his time, Genghis Khan lived a rather long life. According to the most conservative estimates, he died at the age of 65.

Not only a long, but also an extremely fruitful life. In all senses.

Allegedly, according to DNA markets, every eighth person on Earth has the blood of Genghis Khan. Allegedly, after the seizure of another city, Genghis Khan had enough to rape several hundred, or even thousands of girls and women. Well, after the khan, these girls rolled valiant bagatura in the hayloft.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Alexander1971

Quote: Katanikotael

he was a Buryat, horse-diving.

Temuchin had nothing to do with the Buryats.
The Buryats are a North Mongolian people who have long been divorced from the Khalkhases.
Temuchin, on the other hand, is from the center of Mongolia, a native of the Borjigins, who formed the core of the Khalkha Mongols.

In the 13th century, the concept of "nationality", especially in the sense in which we know it now, did not exist. The father of the great conqueror Yesugei was one of the grandsons of the first khan of all Mongols, Khabul. Genghis Khan's mother was Hoelun from the Mongolian tribe Olkhonut, whom his father kidnapped after falling in love with her. Descendants of the Borjigin (Borjigon) clan now make up a fifth of the population of Mongolia, and every fourth Mongol belongs to the same Y-chromosomal haplogroup characteristic of the majority of representatives of the Borzhigins. There are many Borjigins among other peoples of the Mongolian group: Buryats, Kalmyks, Oirats.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

In the 13th century, the concept of "nationality", especially in the sense in which we know it now, did not exist. laughing

Yes, there was no concept, but there was nationality.

[Kisa]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

every fourth Mongolian belongs to the same Y-chromosomal haplogroup

I heard that in the capital of Tuva, two monuments erected one Subedei who beat the Slavs on Kalka and the second to our Shoigu ... is this the same tribe?

[Doliva63]

Quote: kitty

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

every fourth Mongolian belongs to the same Y-chromosomal haplogroup

I heard that in the capital of Tuva, two monuments erected one Subedei who beat the Slavs on Kalka and the second to our Shoigu ... is this the same tribe?

The tribe may be different, but the essence is the same

[Gennady Fomkin]

In 2016, South Korean and Mongolian scientists excavated a rich burial site at Tavan Tolgoi in the territory of the Mongolian Republic. According to local legend, representatives of the Borjigin clan, in which Genghis Khan was born, were buried here. Radiocarbon analysis showed that the burial was made around 1130, that is, a generation before the birth of Genghis Khan (1155). Genetic tests of the buried were sensational. It turned out that the men who were lying in the graves of Tavan Tolgoi had a Y-chromosomal haplogroup - R1b. Although the local legends might have confused something, it was not the Borjigins who were actually buried here.

[Aleksandr1971]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: evgen1221

business is old, there is no grave, who will check that? petty, you can rub in whatever you want, the main thing is to find your head more authoritatively.

And even if there is a grave, there is still no one to compare DNA with. As they say, "humpback molle", it is impossible to verify.

There is someone to compare with.
In Mongolia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, and now there are representatives of the former khan clans of the Chingizids with a proven sequence of origin. By the way, the last khans and emirs of Khiva, Kokand and Bukhara, who ruled until the establishment of Soviet power, boasted of their origin in a straight line from Genghis Khan. This was the basis for their power in the steppe. And the descendants of these khans and emirs are still alive. It was their DNA that allowed Western researchers to estimate the scale of Genghis Khan's offspring at a fantastic figure of 8% of the entire population of the earth.

[Gennady Fomkin]

When in the XNUMXth century European scientists and historians began to massively penetrate Mongolia and become interested in Genghis Khan, they say, there was such a great Mongol conqueror.
"Yes?! And we didn’t know ", - the Mongols only mocked them.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Alexander1971

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: evgen1221

business is old, there is no grave, who will check that? petty, you can rub in whatever you want, the main thing is to find your head more authoritatively.

And even if there is a grave, there is still no one to compare DNA with. As they say, "humpback molle", it is impossible to verify.

There is someone to compare with.
In Mongolia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, and now there are representatives of the former khan clans of the Chingizids with a proven sequence of origin. By the way, the last khans and emirs of Khiva, Kokand and Bukhara, who ruled until the establishment of Soviet power, boasted of their origin in a straight line from Genghis Khan. This was the basis for their power in the steppe. And the descendants of these khans and emirs are still alive. It was their DNA that allowed Western researchers to estimate the scale of Genghis Khan's offspring at a fantastic figure of 8% of the entire population of the earth.

The Chirikovs became the first Chingizid family in Russia. Its founder was Peter Ordynsky, the nephew of Batu and Berke. 2. The Anichkovs.

Descendants of the Tsarevich of the Golden Horde, Berke, who went to Ivan Kalita in 1301. Berke was baptized by Metropolitan Peter and named Anikey. He married Vikula Vorontsov's daughter, son Yuri. 3. Serkizovs and their branches Starkovs and Chebyshevs.

The ancestor is Serkiz, son of Akhmet. Tsarevich Serkiz moved to Moscow during the reign of Dmitry Donskoy in 1371. At baptism, he took the name Ivan. Since 1378, the village of Cherkizovo, which belongs to Serkiz-Ivan, has been known. His son Andrey (? -1380) was a hero of the Battle of Kulikovo (he commanded one of the six regiments), where he died. Dead.

They came from Blagoden (Bilgitdin), the prince of the Golden Horde, who came out at the beginning of the 1342th century to Oleg Ryazansky (1402 - 5). His descendants allegedly retained the title of princes, and under Grozny, the orphans of one of them were named the children of Mertvago Tsarevich (they simply could not remember the name of the Tsarevich for a long time). After that, the surname Mertvago was assigned to them. XNUMX. Bulgakovs.

These include three surnames of the Bulgakovs of different origins. The genealogy of one is known, nothing can be said about the other two.

Shai, "an honest and courageous husband" (John in holy baptism), of the Khan's tribe, went with many people to the Grand Duke Oleg of Ryazan (1342-1402). His descendant, Matvey Denisovich Bulgak, was a voivode in the army sent to destroy the uluses of the children of Akhmet Khan in 1501, then he was voivode in Belev in 1507 and Ryazan in 1520 and the following years. From him came the Ryazan Bulgakovs.

6. Talychevs.

Descendants of Talych, the Horde prince, who in 1410 transferred to the service of the Nizhny Novgorod prince Daniil Borisovich and made a campaign with him against Vladimir.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: evgen1221

business is old, there is no grave, who will check that? petty, you can rub in whatever you want, the main thing is to find your head more authoritatively.

And even if there is a grave, there is still no one to compare DNA with. As they say, "humpback molle", it is impossible to verify.

God forbid to find a grave. It will be bad for everyone

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: Alexander1971

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: evgen1221

business is old, there is no grave, who will check that? petty, you can rub in whatever you want, the main thing is to find your head more authoritatively.

And even if there is a grave, there is still no one to compare DNA with. As they say, "humpback molle", it is impossible to verify.

There is someone to compare with.
In Mongolia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, and now there are representatives of the former khan clans of the Chingizids with a proven sequence of origin. By the way, the last khans and emirs of Khiva, Kokand and Bukhara, who ruled until the establishment of Soviet power, boasted of their origin in a straight line from Genghis Khan. This was the basis for their power in the steppe. And the descendants of these khans and emirs are still alive. It was their DNA that allowed Western researchers to estimate the scale of Genghis Khan's offspring at a fantastic figure of 8% of the entire population of the earth.

The Chirikovs became the first Chingizid family in Russia. Its founder was Peter Ordynsky, the nephew of Batu and Berke. 2. The Anichkovs.

Descendants of the Tsarevich of the Golden Horde, Berke, who went to Ivan Kalita in 1301. Berke was baptized by Metropolitan Peter and named Anikey. He married Vikula Vorontsov's daughter, son Yuri. 3. Serkizovs and their branches Starkovs and Chebyshevs.

The ancestor is Serkiz, son of Akhmet. Tsarevich Serkiz moved to Moscow during the reign of Dmitry Donskoy in 1371. At baptism, he took the name Ivan. Since 1378, the village of Cherkizovo, which belongs to Serkiz-Ivan, has been known. His son Andrey (? -1380) was a hero of the Battle of Kulikovo (he commanded one of the six regiments), where he died. Dead.

They came from Blagoden (Bilgitdin), the prince of the Golden Horde, who came out at the beginning of the 1342th century to Oleg Ryazansky (1402 - 5). His descendants allegedly retained the title of princes, and under Grozny, the orphans of one of them were named the children of Mertvago Tsarevich (they simply could not remember the name of the Tsarevich for a long time). After that, the surname Mertvago was assigned to them. XNUMX. Bulgakovs.

These include three surnames of the Bulgakovs of different origins. The genealogy of one is known, nothing can be said about the other two.

Shai, "an honest and courageous husband" (John in holy baptism), of the Khan's tribe, went with many people to the Grand Duke Oleg of Ryazan (1342-1402). His descendant, Matvey Denisovich Bulgak, was a voivode in the army sent to destroy the uluses of the children of Akhmet Khan in 1501, then he was voivode in Belev in 1507 and Ryazan in 1520 and the following years. From him came the Ryazan Bulgakovs.
The Talychev family forgot
6. Talychevs.

Descendants of Talych, the Horde prince, who in 1410 transferred to the service of the Nizhny Novgorod prince Daniil Borisovich and made a campaign with him against Vladimir.

Chalymovs.

From the Astrakhan prince Chalym-ulan and his son, who entered the Russian service in 1557. Chalym was an opponent of Ishmael, the ruler of the Nogai Horde (not to be confused with Jalim, the Kazakh sultan who lived at the same time and fought with the Nogai). The Chalymovs most likely belonged to the Astrakhan branch of the Jochids. The Russian tsar belonged to the same dynasty.
Sain-Bulat (Simeon Bekbulatovich) (? -January 1616),
son of Bek-Bolat,
son of Bahadur,
son of Ahmad Khan,
son of Kichi-Muhammad-khan,
son of Timur Khan,
son of Timur-Kutluk-khan,
son of Timur Khan,
son of Kutluk-Timur,
son of Numkan,
son of Abai,
son of Uran-Timur,
son of Tuk-Timur,
son of Jochi,
son of Genghis Khan.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Article - "And not that yes, and not that no"

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

In the 13th century, the concept of "nationality", especially in the sense in which we know it now, did not exist. laughing

Yes, there was no concept, but there was nationality.

There were no Kazakhs, no Uzbeks, there were no Russians, there were no nationalities.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

In the 13th century, the concept of "nationality", especially in the sense in which we know it now, did not exist. laughing

Yes, there was no concept, but there was nationality.

There were no Kazakhs, no Uzbeks, there were no Russians, there were no nationalities.

Between the concepts of "people" and "nation" is often put an equal sign. Many dictionaries consider them synonymous. But a people and a nation are not at all the same: they are phenomena related to different social spheres. How are they different? Let's try to understand this confusing issue.
What is a people and a nation
A nation is a collection of people with a common origin, common traditions, language, culture. A nation is a community of people bound by political and economic interests, which is already part of the state or is striving to create it.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

But a people and a nation are not at all the same:

I dare add - nation and nationality are not the same either.
And we were talking about a nationality that supposedly did not exist.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: kitty

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

every fourth Mongolian belongs to the same Y-chromosomal haplogroup

I heard that in the capital of Tuva, two monuments erected one Subedei who beat the Slavs on Kalka and the second to our Shoigu ... is this the same tribe?

Sudebei (Sudubai) Jebe was not a Mongol, he was one of the Uryankhai ancestors of the Tuvinians. The son of a simple blacksmith terrified the Chinese and the armies of Europeans in the battles in which he directly commanded: 1223 - Battle of Kalka, In 1241, the battle of the Shayo River, There is a suspicion that in one of the battles with the army of Khorezmshah, he used the same tactics as Hannibal in the famous battle of Cannes. He placed the troops in a crescent, led the enemy into the cauldron, and then destroyed.

[Andobor]

Whoever came up with the idea that Genghis Khan might have a grave, the Mongols do not bury it in the ground, they leave it in a special place in the tribal camps, even now they do this, only this is an expensive pleasure, for sanitary reasons it is forbidden, and very many need to be bribed to do this.
And Genghis Khan did not have such problems, a nakraynyak could be put in the region for a year's experience, and nothing will remain there in a year.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

But a people and a nation are not at all the same:

I dare add - nation and nationality are not the same either.
And we were talking about a nationality that supposedly did not exist.

Timur (Tamerlane) was not an Uzbek in any way He simply hated them fiercely and cut them like his worst enemies. Timur was born on April 8, 1336 in the village of Khoja-Ilgar near the city of Kesh (now Shakhrisabz, Uzbekistan) in Central Asia.

Childhood and youth of Timur were spent in the Kesh mountains. In his youth, he loved hunting and horse racing, javelin throwing and archery, and had a penchant for war games.

His father Muhammad Taragay or Turgay was a military man from the Mongolian tribe of Barlas.

Timur's native language since childhood is believed to have been the Chagatai (Jagatai) language

[silver169]

What an interesting bust in the title. If you remove the bangs, the spitting image of Vladimir Ilyich turns out ...

[Aleksandr1971]

No wonder. After all, Lenin was a quarter Kalmyk, which means a quarter Mongol. Since the Kalmyks are a relatively young branch of the Mongols, mixed from the Oirats, Borjigins, Uighurs, and Honkyrats.

[silver169]

I know this, as well as the fact that Ilyich just did not have a drop of Russian blood in his veins ...

[Aleksandr1971]

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: Gennady Fomkin

In the 13th century, the concept of "nationality", especially in the sense in which we know it now, did not exist. laughing

Yes, there was no concept, but there was nationality.

There were no Kazakhs, no Uzbeks, there were no Russians, there were no nationalities.

Between the concepts of "people" and "nation" is often put an equal sign. Many dictionaries consider them synonymous. But a people and a nation are not at all the same: they are phenomena related to different social spheres. How are they different? Let's try to understand this confusing issue.
What is a people and a nation
A nation is a collection of people with a common origin, common traditions, language, culture. A nation is a community of people bound by political and economic interests, which is already part of the state or is striving to create it.

If you agree with your judgment, then the Arabs do not fall under this judgment. Who are they? A people or a nation? They speak the same language with some dialects, they recognize themselves as one nation, know their common root, but now they live in a bunch of different states and sometimes dream of reuniting.

[Usher]

This is nationality.

[Ros 56]

Yes, a very relevant topic for today.