Nevsky or Dzerzhinsky: Who Will Occupy Lubyanskaya Square

Voting began today in Moscow on which monument should be installed on Lubyanskaya Square. The results will be announced on March 5.

Voting takes place online on the portal "Active citizen".

Two, so to speak, candidates "ran" for these elections - Felix Dzerzhinsky and Alexander Nevsky. At least, this is exactly what the city authorities decided.

At the moment, more than 100 thousand people have already voted, and the leader of this race has not yet been determined - the votes were divided approximately in half, although the ancient Russian prince slightly overtakes the professional revolutionary and the Chekist - 51 percent against 49. So, in the "competition" Alexander Nevsky vs Felix Dzerzhinsky the first is in the lead by a small margin, but the voting continues.

Initially, the question of who will occupy Lubyanskaya Square was initiated by a group of writers and journalists, including Zakhar Prilepin and Igor Molotov. True, their idea was different - they proposed to restore the monument to "Iron Felix" on Lubyanskaya Square, which was demolished during the events in August 1991. But the Moscow authorities "slightly" changed this idea and decided to add another candidate for the post of "owner of Lubyanka Square" - Prince Alexander Nevsky.

Among famous media personalities, as well as among ordinary Muscovites, the voices were divided. Some are for Nevsky, others for Dzerzhinsky. As usual, Vladimir Zhirinovsky showed his originality. In his opinion, the best candidate is ... the fountain, which once stood on the site of the monument.

At the same time, an opinion has already been expressed on the network that this vote was organized only so that the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky was not returned to the place where he once was.

Comments

[silverwolf88]

Only Dzerzhinsky is appropriate there ... Nevsky is great ... BUT it would be more appropriate to look in Novgorod, or to steal Peter for them, if you really want to ...

[Temples]

What does Nevsky have to do with Lubyanka?

Put Felix back in place !!!

[Legionista]

Put Felix back in place !!!

Why return it if you clean it up again afterwards? Or do you think that the monument to the Pole who led the Latvians who shot Russians is worthy to be on Lubyanka Square?

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Or do you think that the monument to the Pole who led the Latvians who shot the Russians is worthy to be on Lubyanskaya Square? ..... yes, it is worthy, because that monument has a historical value because it was embodied for folk funds, whether you like it or not, no matter what. .. yes, by the way .... and the German woman Katerna the Second ditched how many Russian backgammon ... tell me or finish it yourself ... nevertheless, in the days of Ukraine in Crimea, Katya in Sevastopol is guarded carefully ... and God forbid any vandal to ward off this historical value ... Duc what about Iron Felix you hummed

[Roman1970_1]

Or do you think that the monument to the Pole who led the Latvians who shot the Russians is worthy to be on Lubyanskaya Square? ..... yes, it is worthy, because that monument has a historical value because it was embodied for folk funds, whether you like it or not, no matter what. .. yes, by the way .... and the German woman Katerna the Second ditched how many Russian backgammon ... tell me or finish it yourself ... nevertheless, in the days of Ukraine in Crimea, Katya in Sevastopol is guarded carefully ... and God forbid any vandal to ward off this historical value ... Duc what about Iron Felix you hummed

The Grubby

[Temples]

Quote: Legionista

a monument to the Pole who led the Latvians who shot the Russians,

"Dumb, dumber."
I recommend you watch this movie.

The man was born in the Russian Empire.
He spoke Russian.
He restored the Russian country after a terrible turmoil.
He created a state structure that stabilized statehood in our country. In the Russian country.

Felix is ​​Pole by last name, but Russian in life.

The Poles broke away in life in 17, and then they shit restlessly.

Dzerzhinsky served Russia. (in that historical period, Russia was called the USSR)

Thousands of great people did not have Russian roots, but served Russia.
All of them considered themselves Russian, regardless of their surname.

Dzerzhinsky is a historical figure.
To demolish monuments is blasphemy. Least.
You can evaluate this or that figure in different ways, but you cannot delete Felix from the history of the Russian state. It is a fact.

Return the monument to its place.

And I recommend to you to blame in the USA. There is now the era of the demolition of its history. Take part in the overthrow of some kind of statue.
Those like you can only "fight" with monuments.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Nasr

Felix was released on March 1, 1917. He got out of Butyrka barely alive - the inmates, having caught the head of the prison in snitching, severely beat him.

Can you see the link to the documents about this? You have written a rare nonsense, of course, but this one has surpassed everything. Where did you get this nonsense? Can you provide any documents in support of your delirium?

[Nasrat]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Can you see the link to the documents about this?

Have you ever asked for a document with commies that infused your brain, a Russian person (!), With love for Felix?

Perhaps after my comment, it will be interesting for you to understand all this yourself? ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Nasr

Have you ever asked for a document with commies that infused your brain, a Russian person (!), With love for Felix?

I'm asking you, because you wrote such unsubstantiated nonsense. As for the documents on F.E. Dzerzhinsky, there are quite a few of them, I don't understand where you got such hatred for him? Did Ogonyok magazine try? It would be time to grow up and begin to be more critical of such "works".

[Ascetic]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

where did you get such hatred for him?

Us Rat Israeli troll ... this is not hatred, he has such a job on this resource.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Ascetic

Us Rat is an Israeli troll ... this is not hatred, he has such a job on this resource.

Why Israeli? The fact that he is a fat troll, I do not argue, is true.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Nasr

Have you ever asked for a document with commies that infused your brain, a Russian person (!), With love for Felix?

---
"Influenced", good gentleman, as for someone like you.
Descendants of serfs, who are not capable of creating any of their own people's party in the country, except for "OPG-AUE". Are you still looking for a "kind master"? Well, well ... look, under the Soviets there were 146 million of you, and the number of Russians in peacetime has always grown, and now under the "white master" - 143 .... wait until you are replaced by foreigners.
It's not about Dzerzhinsky. The fact is that one power differs from another only in laws. Whether they are beneficial to the majority or not, you are not interested.
If only the master was "Russian-charismatic". And what laws he will establish, you do not care. You do not live according to the laws, but as in a gang, according to "concepts"! Your concepts are terribly simple; In a naval overcoat with a white scarf .... you can of course also put on a flight helmet on top - then there will be 300% of the votes in any election.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Nasr

Have you ever asked for a document with commies that infused your brain, a Russian person (!), With love for Felix?

They asked. "Bolshevism is a curse and a crime against all mankind ... The most terrible example in this regard is Russia, where the Jews, in their fanatical savagery, killed 30 million people (by 1924), mercilessly cutting some and subjecting others to inhuman hunger pangs ..." Hitler. Mein Kampf. 1924 .https: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolsheviks

How does Mr. NasRat differ from the author of Mein Kampf? Only by stopping at the above phrase. And Hitler concludes that "the Russians must be saved" because they "are not all right with their heads." In our time, the Americans are drawing the same conclusion ... yes, with "the Russians need democracy," because they themselves can only "bear their cross and not a damn more ..." And the "patriotism on duty" of an entire army of gentlemen, to whom "NasRat" is only the first move of the two-move.

[ivan2022]

GOD HAS A SHELMA! Because "NasRat" = Russian translation -nomen illis legio This is the attitude of the forces of evil to us, to each of us. THIS SAME IN MADNESS SAGITTED HIMSELF WITH PIGS!

[hhhhhhh]

Do you dream of a good Boss? For 30 years, haven't figured out where Freedom is?

[Nasrat]

Quote: hhhhhhh

Do you dream of a good Boss?

It's funny, those thirsty for the whip could only betray what they dream of - a good master!

Quote: hhhhhhh

For 30 years, haven't figured out where Freedom is?

Freedom sounds like a mockery of the Russians ...

Yakov Peters became Dzerzhinsky's faithful assistant and deputy - with a mane of black hair, a depressed nose, a large narrow-lipped mouth and dull eyes. He covered Don, Petersburg, Kiev, Kronstadt, Tambov with blood. Another deputy, Martyn Sudrabs, is better known under the pseudonym Latsis. It belongs to him a pearl: “The established customs of war ... according to which prisoners are not shot and so on, all this is ridiculous. To slaughter all prisoners in battles against you - this is the law of civil war. " Latsis covered Moscow, Kazan, Ukraine with blood. Aleksandr Eyduk, a member of the Cheka Collegium, made no secret of the fact that murder was sexual ecstasy for him. Contemporaries remembered his pale face, broken arm and Mauser in the other. The head of the Special Department of the Cheka Mikhail Kedrov, already in the 1920s, ended up in an insane asylum. Prior to that, he and his mistress Rebekah Meisel imprisoned children aged 8-14 and shot them under the pretext of class struggle. The “plenipotentiary of the Cheka” Georgy Atarbekov was especially cruel. In Pyatigorsk, with a detachment of Chekists, he chopped up about a hundred captured hostages with sabers, and personally stabbed General Ruzsky with a dagger. While retreating from Armavir, he shot several thousand Georgians in the Chekist basements - officers, doctors, nurses returning home after the war. When the Wrangel detachment approached Yekaterinodar, he ordered about two thousand more prisoners to be put up against the wall, most of whom were innocent.

In Kharkov, the name of the Chekist Sayenko was horrifying. This frail, obviously mentally ill man with a nervously twitching cheek, stuffed with drugs, ran around the prison on Kholodnaya Gora, covered in blood. When the Whites entered Kharkov and dug up the corpses, most of the ribs were broken, their legs were broken, their heads were cut off, all had traces of torture with a red-hot iron.

In Georgia, the commandant of the local "emergency" Shulman, a drug addict and a homosexual, was distinguished by pathological cruelty. This is how an eyewitness describes the execution of 118 people: “The sentenced were lined up. Shulman and his assistant with revolvers in their hands went along the line, shooting in the forehead of the condemned, from time to time stopping to load the revolver. Not all obediently substituted their heads. Many fought, cried, shouted, begged for mercy. Sometimes Shulman's bullet only wounded them, the wounded were immediately finished off with shots and bayonets, and the dead were thrown into the pit. This whole scene lasted at least three hours. "

And what were the atrocities of Aron Kogan (better known under the pseudonym Bela Kun), Unshlikht, the dwarf and sadist Deribas, investigators of the Cheka Mindlin and Baron Pilar von Pilhau. Chekists also kept up with men: in Crimea - Zemlyachka, in Yekaterinoslavl - Gromova, in Kiev - "Comrade Rose", in Penza - Bosch, in Petrograd - Yakovleva and Stasova, in Odessa - Ostrovskaya. In the same Odessa, for example, the Hungarian woman Remover shot 80 arrested persons without permission. Subsequently, she was declared insane on the basis of sexual perversion.

Did Dzerzhinsky know about the atrocities perpetrated on behalf of the Soviet regime by his henchmen? Based on the analysis of hundreds of documents, I declare: I knew and encouraged. It was he who signed most of the search and arrest warrants, his signature is on the sentences, and he wrote secret instructions on the total recruitment of sex workers and secret agents in all spheres of society. “One should always remember the techniques of the Jesuits who did not make noise about their work in the whole square and did not show them off,” taught the “iron Felix” in secret orders, “but were secretive people who knew about everything and only knew how to act ...” he considers the Chekists to be secret informing and requires everyone to recruit as many sexists as possible. “To acquire secret officers,” teaches Dzerzhinsky, “you need a constant and long conversation with the arrested, as well as their relatives and acquaintances ... To get interested in full rehabilitation in the presence of compromising material obtained by searches and intelligence information ... To take advantage of troubles in the organization and quarrels between individuals ... Get financially interested. "

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Nasr

While retreating from Armavir, he shot several thousand Georgians in the Chekist basements - officers, doctors, nurses returning to their homeland after the war.

And it is possible from this place in more detail, I spent all my childhood and youth in Armavir. Will I wait for any documents from you, or will you continue to pour out this unsubstantiated verbal diarrhea?

[Artyom Karagodin]

“One should always remember the techniques of the Jesuits, who did not make noise in the whole square about their work and didn’t show them off,” the “iron Felix” taught in secret orders, “but were secretive people who knew about everything and only knew how to act…”

To be honest, I did not understand what is the connection of this phrase with the atrocities of Zemlyachka and others like her. Are you sure that this is not about the work of intelligence and counterintelligence (the Cheka and the OGPU also dealt with these issues)?

[hhhhhhh]

Where is Freedom? In the US in 2021? After the stuffing for the Bidon.

Remind me why the peasants in Siberia followed the Bolsheviks and not Kolchak?
Remind the Bolsheviks staged the Lena execution, the war with the Japanese, maybe the Bolsheviks staged the First World War ??
What will you yourself be behind the corrupt Kolchak or the bloody Nikolai 2?

[ivan2022]

Quote: Nasr

For the acquisition of secret officers, - teaches Dzerzhinsky, - a constant and long conversation with the arrested, as well as their relatives and acquaintances is necessary ... To interest them in full rehabilitation ... with agent information ...

Mr. "NasRat" sat under Dzerzhinsky's bed and knows all the most secret documents? The CIA and the FBI must work for him together. But the main thing is that he, following Hitler, recognizes the Russians only as material for the experiments of a handful of maniacs. Typical heroes of American militants who "are striving for power." They, bln .... rush to the rations from the district committee of the cafe and to their personal car and for this they are ready to threaten 100 million people!
Something unprecedented in history, but convincing for those who "NasRat" for sense and logic.
He is "NasRat" that a full-fledged people will never allow anything like this in their history. For him, the Russians are just a senseless bunch of "endured" in the hands of some Jews and Latvians.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Nasr

As they were serfs, they remain so in the 21st century ... Everyone dreams of the iron Felix or the hand ... hehe

For example, I have great respect for F.E. Dzerzhinsky, he has something to respect and there is something to set children as an example. But I have never dreamed and never dream of an "iron hand".

[LifeIsGood]

And as you were "a lady of easy virtue, you remained"

It's better to let the Boss be at the head of the country than someone like you ... at least you won't be ashamed of him.

[Usher]

What the hell did you write here? Such epithets

After the death of his mother, Felix received 1000 rubles of inheritance and quickly spent them on drink in local pubs (he did not appear at the funeral, and he did not recall either mother or father either in letters or verbally, as if they did not exist at all), where whole for days with the same idlers who had read Marx, he discussed plans to build a society in which he could not work.

They betray a poorly prepared "ukrovoinstvuyuschih" nationalist or Israeli anti-communist. I read some kind of propaganda in a stuffy apartment under the bed. Then the FSB finds such gadyushniks and photos on sites with surprised faces and books "minekampf", "svaarog", "perun", "how the Ukrainians dug the sea", "Koran", "talmud", etc. "literature".

[Usher]

Quote: Nasr

who had read Marx, discussed plans for building a society in which it would be possible not to work

Justify at least for this stuffing? Have you even read Marx yourself? What would lead him in his stuffing?

[Legionista]

He restored the Russian country after a terrible turmoil.
He created a state structure that stabilized statehood in our country. In the Russian country.

He was rebuilding after the turmoil, which he himself, “with comrades,” started with.

And I recommend to you to blame in the USA.

I prefer France. There are more pensions and salaries). Coffee, croissants, cheese, red wine.

[SOF]

Quote: Legionista

I prefer France. There are more pensions and salaries). Coffee, croissants, cheese, red wine.

..... a roll ... a crispy roll forgotten .....

[Legionista]

... a roll ... a crispy roll forgotten

They don't bake a loaf here. Yes, and they were discussed in the description of "delightful evenings in Russia"

[Legionista]

by the way ...

German Katerna The second how many Russian backgammon

or you will finish it yourself.

Duc what about Iron Felix you moaned

You are rude and not entirely literate. ... It is strange to hear from you about historical values ​​if you cannot even correctly spell the name of the Empress of All Russia Catherine II.

[Temples]

Quote: Legionista

You are rude and not entirely literate.

Do you teach literacy?

Quote: Legionista

Why return if later again ...

Chernomyrdin smokes on the sidelines ...

[Legionista]

Do you teach literacy? wassat laughing
Quote: Legionista
Why return if later again ...


Chernomyrdin smokes on the sidelines .... laughing

agree with the remark.

[mole]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

Or do you think that the monument to the Pole who led the Latvians who shot the Russians is worthy to be on Lubyanka Square?

This "Pole" was born in the Russian Empire and thought in Russian. Established an operation service which is being studied. On whose former glory they still play. Result???

[Vladimir Mashkov]

The writers proposed to restore the monument to Dzerzhinsky at the Lubyanka. And the longer it went, more interesting and more interesting. Power, very loving Felix, she began to fidgetily invent ideas how not to stage him. At first, it was heavily discussed in the commission. Then they came up with a competition and a competitor to Dzerzhinsky. Muscovites were appointed arbitrators (?). (ALL Russians would be clearly better!)
There is no doubt that Alexander Yaroslavich is a notable figure in Russian history. But the Lubyanka is Felix's place. And the Cheka, the KGB, the FSB are nearby. And he is still their symbol.
If everything is fair, I am convinced that Dzerzhinsky will be the winner.
We look, we observe.

[Legionista]

The writers proposed to restore the monument to Dzerzhinsky at the Lubyanka.

I think Zakhar Prilepin is trying to rehabilitate himself in front of his future voter in such a simple way for his novel "Abode". By the way, the novel quite colorfully describes a certain "Eikhmanis" - the head of the Solovetsky special-purpose camp (prototype-Latvian, Theodors (Fedor) Eichmans.

[Vladimir Mashkov]

Zakhar is a contradictory and ambiguous person. But the idea about Felix Edmundovich is good!

[Legionista]

Zakhar is a contradictory person

Like a weather vane. He clearly understands where and where the wind is blowing).

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vladimir Mashkov

But the idea about Felix Edmundovich is good!

I agree that demolishing monuments is blasphemy and savagery and historical justice must be restored.

Therefore, in the center of Lubyanka, a magnificent monument of Moscow architecture Valerie's fountainwho is there stood all my life but was demolished by barbarians in the 1930s

Valerie fountain before 1930s

Dzerzhinsky has NOTHING to do with the ancient Moscow Lubyanskaya Square: it was built and decorated long BEFORE him. The FSB building, by the way, also existed BEFORE the thief - it was 2 beautiful apartment buildings


the monument to Dkherzhinsky is appropriate in the new district built under the Soviet regime - in Cheryomushki, for example, on the street of builders.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Olgovich

but was demolished by barbarians in the 1930s

Nobody took it down, they moved it during the repair of the Lubyanka.

Quote: Olgovich

2 beautiful apartment buildings

Do you also belong to you, or what?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Nobody took it down, were postponed during the repair of the Lubyanka.

yeah, then no one demolished the monument to felix - it was also just moved

Quote: Mordvin 3

Do you also belong to you, or what?

perhaps not. What?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Olgovich

then the monument to felix was also moved

Illegally. Let Popov turn him back on his hump.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Illegally. Let Popov turn him back on his hump

unlawfully demolished the FOUNTAIN - let the descendants of the bearers turn it back to the center of the Lubyanka

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Olgovich

illegally demolished the FOUNTAIN

And who said it was illegal? The fountain is generally a technical structure; horses were taken there to drink. Yes, in principle, I don't give a damn, the current government is no side to Dzerzhinsky, let the fountain set, there will be something for the guards to fill the radiators of Gelendvagens with.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And who said it was illegal?

was there a ..referendum among the townspeople?

And those so-called "authorities" have never been elected anywhere in the elections, yes

Quote: Mordvin 3

A fountain is generally a technical structure,

The fountains of Petrodvorets are also a technical building and an architectural monument.

And Vitali's fountain is the same.

Put back a piece of historical Russian Moscow !!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Olgovich

Put back a piece of historical Russian Moscow !!

Are you yelling at me? Muscovites do not want a fountain, it is falling apart on the move, they choose between Nevsky and Dzerzhinsky, although, in my opinion, it would be better to have nominated Malyuta Skuratov, and the Novgorodians, whom he pacified, even under Ivan the third, were settled on the Lubyanka. Will such a character go?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Muscovites do not want a fountain, it falls apart on the go,

Muscovites haveSELECTED the fountain and square in 2015 year in the Lubyanka-study the question

[Gardamir]

pertinent

well at least somewhere appropriate. Yours have set up monuments to Solzhenitsyn, Yeltsin - the destroyer

[Freeman]

Olgovich (Andrey) Today, 20:40
a magnificent monument of Moscow architecture should be restored in the center of Lubyanka Valerie's fountainwho stood there all my life

In 1835, in the center of the square was built fountain by Ivan (Giovanni) Vitali. The fountain served as a water intake basin, where drinking water was supplied from the Mytishchi water pipeline.

who stood there all his life, but was demolished by barbarians in the 1930s

As well as the monument to Dzerzhinsky, it was moved to a new location.

Nikolsky fountain - one of the oldest fountains in Moscow, located in the courtyard of the Alexandrinsky Palace in Neskuchny Garden.
/ * Now the Presidium of the Russian Academy of Sciences is located here /
The author of the project is the sculptor Giovanni Vitali. The fountain was originally installed on Lubyanka Square in 1835

In 2015, the United Russia party raised the issue of returning the fountain to the Lubyanka, but the city authorities, in 2017, recognized this as technically impossible.
source: https://tass.ru/moskva/4135436

[Olgovich]

Quote: Freeman

In 2015, the United Russia party raised the issue of returning the fountain to the Lubyanka, but the city authorities, in 2017, recognized this as technically impossible.
source: https://tass.ru/moskva/4135436

You are not saying the most important thing: in 2015, signatures were collected for the return of the fountain to Lubyanka Square.

The townspeople spoke in favor of the fountain and the square.

Bredyatin about the "impossibility" to throw a snot of VK and ES will be left on the conscience of the "specialists" of the authorities.

[Freeman]

Olgovich (Andrey) Today, 22:13
You are not saying the most important thing: in 2015, signatures were collected for the return of the fountain to Lubyanka Square.
The townspeople spoke in favor of the fountain and the square.

Key words - "collecting signatures".
Personally, I found out about this only today.
This event did not have any "wide coverage in the media".
That is, the signatures were collected "on the sly".

[Olgovich]

Quote: Freeman

Key words - "collecting signatures"

keywords- "spoke for the fountain"

Quote: Freeman

I personally only found out about it today.

and today's survey is not known to everyone.

И HE in 2015 wrote about the survey and already there was a heated discussion.

My Muscovites spoke in favor of the historical fountain, which has stood there for hundred years.

[Freeman]

Olgovich Today, 07:24
and today's survey is not known to everyone.

About today's survey, information sounds "from every iron."

[kaban7]

They built it in 1835, moved it in 1930, and in 2017 there is no longer enough technology to transfer it back ...

[Freeman]

Quote: kaban7

They built it in 1835, moved it in 1930, and in 2017 there is no longer enough technology to transfer it back ...

It is possible that "so much has already been buried there" that there really is no room left for new communications, and their relocation is too expensive in terms of money.
Again, on "city day", a stage is often erected there for the performance of artists.

[Alex Justice]

I agree that demolishing monuments is blasphemy and savagery, and historical justice must be restored.
Therefore, in the center of Lubyanka, the magnificent monument of Moscow architecture, the Valerie fountain, should be restored

I agree.
I can't wait for the bayonet to be demolished in St. Petersburg on Vosstaniya Square and Alexander is put back, and it's time to return the square's historical name. He lived on Sovetskaya Street, but I would like to live on Rozhdestvenskaya.
It's time to bring back all the historical names.

[Nikon O'Conor]

This, as I understand it, the Atlanteans ... are holding the sky? Well, yes, instead of the legendary man, you need to put four legendary jocks with little pipis ... (sarcasm)
P.S. the photo was probably taken in the winter, the men froze))

[Artyom Karagodin]

Why so? Zakhar wrote about what took place. He never denied political repression and did not belittle the tragedy of those people who suffered from them, often innocently. But how does this prevent us from treating the Soviet period of our history with respect?

The monument is needed because you need to stop being ashamed of Soviet history, as it was in the "saints" of the 90s, when they did not spare the dirt to pour it over their own past. Yes, there were repressions, but there was blood, including Felix on his hands. But there was also something else. There was a Great Country, which was built, among other things, by the efforts of Dzerzhinsky, who laid down his life for it. In the literal sense of the word. After all, doctors ordered him to shorten his working day, given his health problems. But he could not do this, knowing what responsibility lies with him.

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: Vladimir Mashkov

If everything is fair

Why do you think there are only two voting options?
“There was a meeting at which many options were proposed that could be placed on the square. And there was an agreement that we are now collecting the proposed items, then putting them on the site for voting. Personally, I offered to place a chapel there for the Holy Christian Martyr Felix. After that, somehow, already without me, a meeting was held, at which it was decided that we will leave with only two options, "says Pavel Danilin, member of the Moscow Public Chamber's commission for the development of civil society.

[forester1971]

Monument to Dzerzhinsky - Iron Felix must return to his rightful place.
The monument to Alexander Nevsky can and should also be erected by choosing the appropriate place for it. The opposition of Nevsky to Dzerzhinsky is the same layout of the liberals as the opposition of Nevsky to Stalin at the "Name of Russia" competition in 2008.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Forester1971

Opposing Nevsky to Dzerzhinsky, the same layout of the liberals as opposing Nevsky to Stalin

Thimblers!

[nov_tech.vrn]

Do you like to substitute concepts to deal with, of course, White Czechs, French or Anglo-American invaders or their henchmen are closer to you. That's just Dzerzhinsky, not only the Cheka led, he also made a significant contribution to the restoration of the national economy in the fight against the homeless girl. and the place of the monument to him is historical. Nobody demolishes monuments in old Europe.

[Sibguest]

This is a monument to DZERZHINSKY - A MAN who, in a terrible situation after the end of the Civil War, took upon himself the overwhelming work of organizing the life of street children, people who then stood up to defend our Motherland, the USSR.

[Legionista]

This is a monument to DZERZHINSKY - A MAN who, in a terrible situation after the end of the Civil War, himself took on the backbreaking work of organizing the life of street children

Well, if the Bolsheviks had not created the prerequisites for the beginning of the Civil War, and, as a result, an increase in the number of homeless children, then perhaps the Chairman of the Cheka would have had less work? But the role of F.E. Dzerzhinsky in creating EPRON really deserves recognition and respect. Unfortunately, few people here know about it, probably.

[Usher]

Quote: Legionista

This is a monument to DZERZHINSKY - A MAN who, in a terrible situation after the end of the Civil War, himself took on the backbreaking work of organizing the life of street children

Well, if the Bolsheviks had not created the prerequisites for the beginning of the Civil War, and, as a result, an increase in the number of homeless children, then perhaps the Chairman of the Cheka would have had less work? But the role of F.E. Dzerzhinsky in creating EPRON really deserves recognition and respect. Unfortunately, few people here know about it, probably.

What are you making fun of here and throwing from a sore head to a healthy one? There would be no civil war if tsarism was adequate.

[Legionista]

The transition to "you" in communication with a stranger, without agreement, gives you a plebeian))))

There would be no civil war if tsarism was adequate.

The absolute monarchy in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century was adequate enough to such pranksters as the revolutionary Dzerzhinsky. Under the current government, he would easily go to the RV to sew sweatshirts for his eccentricities. Under Soviet rule, he could have been shot

[Sibguest]

Despite YOUR attempts to look like an aristocrat, you are talking complete nonsense about the "adequacy" of Nicholas II and his government to the Bolsheviks.
You don't need to be a supporter of the Communist Party, you just need to read historical documents.
And Usher rightly corrected YOU: accusing the Bolsheviks of unleashing the Civil War is an absurd statement for an educated person.

[Legionista]

You don't need to be a supporter of the Communist Party, you just need to read historical documents.

It is about historical documents that we are talking about. Lenin V.I. PSS, volume 34, pp. 213-230. "Civil war - as a manifestation of the most acute, highest form of modern class struggle."
If you are really "born in the USSR", then you can remember that in 1914 the Bolsheviks put forward the slogan - "Let's turn the imperialist war into a civil war!"

Despite YOUR attempts to look like an aristocrat,

To be an aristocrat, they must, at least, be born. I have a worker-peasant origin. But education and upbringing does not allow you to address strangers on "you"

[Nikon O'Conor]

Nikolai's government || - a pack of grand dukes and corrupt ministers. I will return your

you just need to read historical documents

... Or just read books ...
Nicholas cannot be called adequate, "well, I didn't, I didn't ..."
Peter the Great was as inadequate as he was (his cheek twitched and booted like a damned one), Peter 3 was of the type utterly inadequate, Paul 1 was the same (but for some reason they pursued a very competent policy for the good of the country). The impudent didn't like it? Therefore, the last 2 were killed, With Peter 1 it is not clear at all ..... Nicholas the "saint" did everything to do everything for him ... so he played it out ...

[Usher]

Quote: Legionista

The transition to "you" in communication with a stranger, without agreement, gives you a plebeian))))

There would be no civil war if tsarism was adequate.

The absolute monarchy in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century was adequate enough to such pranksters as the revolutionary Dzerzhinsky. Under the current government, he would easily go to the RV to sew sweatshirts for his eccentricities. Under Soviet rule, he could have been shot

Not adequate, but powerless. If the monarchy would have been adequate, it would not have allowed it to be drawn into WWI and even more so revolution.

[mavrus]

It is in your own Poland or Ukraine that you will then clean everything up. And in Russia, Felix will not be allowed to remove more seksotam (like last time).

[iouris]

This, my friend, was a civil war and the dictatorship of the proletariat, and not "the shooting of the Russians." "Poles and Latvians" in 1918 are Russians. You do not know the history of your people (how they decompose).

[Legionista]

and Latvians "in 1918 are Russians.

It is a pity that they were not familiar with your thesis. On October 6, 1918, an independent Polish state arose, and already in 1919 the Soviet-Polish war began. Latvians "self-determined" on November 18, 1918.

[iouris]

Independent from whom? They were self-determined by the Entente. And even then for a while. Latvia and Estonia never existed. These are invented states. Their territories were bought by Russia from Sweden, and their "elites" swore allegiance to Peter the Great. But revolution is not a national issue, but a way of resolving insoluble class contradictions. So take it easy. Dzerzhinsky and Latvians were born in Russia, and together in 1918 participated in the world revolution.

[Nikon O'Conor]

There was an independent Polish ..., "self-determined" was it all on January 1, 1918? Or dates before October 6 and November 18, which do not belong to the 18th? ... owl + globe .... go for it!

[sannyhome]

Quote: Legionista

Or do you think that the monument to the Pole who led the Latvians

For a second, both Poland and Latvia were part of the Russian Empire.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: silberwolf88

Only Dzerzhinsky is appropriate there ...

Quote: Temples

Put Felix back in place !!!

At the same time, an opinion has already been expressed on the network that this vote was organized only so that the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky was not returned to the place where he once was.

I believe the time will come when the monument will be returned not only to Dzerzhinsky, and the hero-city on the Volga will be called by its historical name.

[ksan]

Therefore, they do not hold a "referendum" among the Volgograd-Stalingraders

[Simon schempp]

the hero city on the Volga will be called by its historical name.

Tsaritsyn?

[Gardamir]

eun?

Even Olgovich is learning the Battle of Stalingrad. What is Sarm-su known for?

[Artyom Karagodin]

In fact, historically it was called Tsaritsyn. But that's it, niggle ... For example, I also do not mind if he became Stalingrad. Not for the sake of Stalin's memory (I have no sympathy for him, although I recognize the scale of the personality), but because our grandfathers defended the city on the Volga with just that name.

[Lionnvrsk]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

For example, I also do not mind if he became Stalingrad.

And what about Peter then?

[Artyom Karagodin]

Peter, just like Peter, will have a richer history than Tsaritsyn as Tsaritsyn. I wouldn't change anything here. Except perhaps St. Petersburg to Petrograd. It is with the Lenins that the connection can be traced. Everything happened in Petrograd.

[iouris]

Quote: LIONnvrsk

And what about Peter then?

Petrograd Do you like it?

[Nikon O'Conor]

But with Lenin the question is big, but even with this question the Leningrad region.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

In fact, historically it was called Tsaritsyn. But that's it, niggle

And this is an extract:

In topography, the city first appears in 1614 on the map of Tsar Fyodor II Godunov - written as Tsarina. The name "Tsarina", most likely, rethought by its sound similarity to the Turkic "sary-su" - yellow or beautiful (in the Turkic language the word yellow and beautiful synonyms) is a river, and "Tsaritsyn" - from the Turkic word "sary-chin" " yellow - beautiful - island "

It is clear that these were: "beautiful river" and "beautiful island". Only the city on the Volga, destroyed to the ground during the Second World War, was rebuilt and is known in world history for the Battle of Stalingrad. It just so happened.
In general, I am a supporter of a referendum, in which the residents themselves must decide in the city with what name they live.
One thing I can say for sure, it is unlikely that people will appear in Russia who have expressed a desire to live in "Yeltsingrad", "Gorbachevsk", "Denegnetgrad" or "Garantgrad" ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

One thing I can say for sure, it is unlikely that there will be people in Russia who have expressed a desire to live in "Yeltsinrad", "Gorbachevsk"

Colleague, you are wrong. I would suggest to gather all Bozen Rynsk, Li Akhedzhakov, Bykovs and others. - their name is "legion" - and move to Yeltsingrad or Gorbachevsk. Somewhere on Wrangel Island or Franz Josef Land.

[Legionista]

I believe the time will come when the monument will be returned not only to Dzerzhinsky,

Will return, along with registration coupons and workdays))). Will definitely return! How many canals still need to be dug, in Tuva to finish the railway, to build a bridge to Sakhalin))))

[iouris]

The canals and the rest are dug by excavators.

[Nikon O'Conor]

Bridges are built by people who know how to do this, and for a lot of money (Crimean, for example - or not?)))

[Legionista]

Bridges are built by people who know how to do this, and for a lot of money (Crimean, for example - or not?)))

For a lot of money. Someone became the Hero of Labor
And when Dzerzhinsky is returned, they will build without imported excavators and for workdays))))
Although Sobyanin has already said that he decided not to return anyone anywhere, which once again shows the attitude of the authorities to the people

[Nikon O'Conor]

Slave labor is not profitable, it has been proven long ago, learn history ..
Goodnight!

[Legionista]

Goodnight!

Mutually!

[kaban7]

Are you talking about Tsaritsyn? Let me remind you: the Queen is a river.

[venik]

Quote: Temples

What does Nevsky have to do with Lubyanka?

=========
They took it off the tongue! I really respect the outstanding commander and politician, Prince Alexander Nevsky ..... But WHAT relationship does he have to Moscow (in general) and to the Lubyanka (in particular) - this is beyond my understanding ...
I would also understand if they proposed (as an alternative) "candidates" Dmitry Donskoy or even Ivan the Terrible ..... They at least "sat in Moscow" ..... And Ivan the Terrible (taking into account the famous building on Lubyanskaya Square ), perhaps it would be more appropriate ...
--------

Quote: Temples

Put Felix back in place !!!

=========
I see no reason why not? One should not forget the old proverb: "the future will shoot from the gun at the one who shoots the past with a pistol!" a monument to Felix .... And who now wants to erect monuments to these very "dermocrats" ???

[zloybond]

In general, it is not clear why Muscovites are arguing? That is our capital, the whole world must decide. Give a stupa with Baba Yaga !!!

[Pilot]

Quote: zloybond

In general, it is not clear why Muscovites are arguing? That is our capital, the whole world must decide. Give a stupa with Baba Yaga !!!

Yes, they put on everyone as in the 91m, wangyu that the variegated liberota will win, whose iron Felix, like a sickle, on candelabra, more of them in non-rubber like fleas on Barboske.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Pilot

Yes, they put on everyone as in the 91m, wangyu that the variegated liberota will win, whose iron Felix, like a sickle, on candelabra, more of them in non-rubber like fleas on Barboske.

The monument to Dzerzhinsky is now in the Muzeon park. Only move it to its original place.
Not sawn. And you can't cut on it as much as on the creation of the monument to Nevsky.
Sawmakers and liberals are often the same thing.
Voting is a test. Are there only guarantees of the purity of the vote.

[Freeman]

Quote: zloybond

In general, it is not clear why Muscovites are arguing? That is our capital, the whole world must decide. Give a stupa with Baba Yaga !!!

Enough with us "Columbus with the head of Peter".

Shl. The "rostras" alone are worth something.

The pedestal of the monument to Peter the Great on the Moscow River by sculptor Zurab Tsereteli is also decorated with rostras. But, contrary to tradition, portray the rostra of captured enemy ships, each of the rostras in the pedestal of the monument to Peter the Great is crowned with the St. Andrew's flag, as if Peter fought against his own fleet.

[mole]

Quote: Temples

What does Nevsky have to do with Lubyanka?

Put Felix back in place !!!

Colleague, I totally agree.
But only when voting on the link "click" and choose, then enter your full name, phone number, email, then confirmation of the choice, then came out:
Sorry, your vote cannot be counted. The voting is open to ...
users with a full account on mos.ru. ...
The department is Federal, the story seems to be common, but Moscow.ru has privatized it.
Suspicions plague that Nevsky is already prepared.
I am for Dzerzhinsky!

[Sayan]

Quote: Temples

What does Nevsky have to do with Lubyanka?

Put Felix back in place !!!

In, even in Chita, there is a monument to Nevsky ... damn it, with all due respect to the historical person - where is Chita and where is Nevsky ?! The monument must be restored !!!! And preferably at the expense of all sorts of chicks of Yeltsin's nest, such as Stankevich and other Chubais !!!!!

[zloybond]

how what, Neva cut, you can earn. And felix is ​​intact, just bring and deliver. So they are trying to fool their heads. Right now the Yeltsin center will raise its own))))

[Zhan]

Quote: Temples

What does Nevsky have to do with Lubyanka?

Put Felix back in place !!!

I am for! The paradox is that modern youth do not know and have removed the mention of Comrade. Deerzhinsky. But thanks to his efforts, at the dawn of the formation of a young socialist state, a huge amount of work was done in the fight against banditry, spies, and for strengthening the borders. Yes, he was a Polish nobleman, but that does not change what he did for our country. They erased him from the memory of the younger generation. Guys, let's put the iron Felix back in place by our efforts.

[Private89]

As Kostya Semin said: "Even if Dzerzhinsky is returned to the Lubyanka, he himself will get off the pedestal and return to the underground."

[nemez]

I also did not understand how Nevsky got there, they are even afraid of the Dzerzhinsky monument.

[Labrador]

On the Lubyanka of Iron Felix UNIFORMALLY!
And to return Stalingrad also UNDEFINITELY!
You must protect your history! And then dodekommuniziruetsya as svidomye.

[Destiny]

Dzerzhinsky F.E. No one else is needed for Lubyanka.

[nnm]

Unfortunately, there will be Nevsky. I don't know why (I think they even got scared of Iron Felix in the form of a monument), but everyone was sent today to the Active Citizen portal with a recommendation to vote for Nevsky. The last time he looked at the site, Nevsky won by a small margin. Although, I think, after the decision was made, it was already predictable.
Definitely, only the monument to Dzerzhinsky has the right to be on the Lubyanka.
If someone wants to vote:
https://ag.mos.ru/poll/10351

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: nnm

If someone wants to vote:
https://ag.mos.ru/poll/10351

And not Muscovites have no right. Where are we, in the Kalashny row to poke around.

[for]

Quote: Mordvin 3

And not Muscovites have no right.

I went through the state. services and voted.
Actually, this vote is not about anything. To create a kind of hectic activity and battles on the forums.

The Public Chamber of Moscow came up with an initiative to hold a vote on the possible installation of a monument on Lubyanka Square. Earlier, the question of the appropriateness of any major architectural dominant in the center of the square was discussed at a meeting of the chamber. Residents of the capital are invited to choose which of the two historical figures can be erected a monument: the commander, Grand Duke Alexander Nevsky or the revolutionary Felix Dzerzhinsky.

[mole]

Quote: nnm

Although, I think, after the decision was made, it was already predictable.
Definitely, only the monument to Dzerzhinsky has the right to be on the Lubyanka.
If someone wants to vote:
https://ag.mos.ru/poll/10351

Unfortunately, you are right. Frightened. Not tolerant, "colleagues and partners" will not appreciate it. If he had voted for Nevsky, no additional confirmation would have been required.

[Icarus]

The vote on the monument is all a distraction by the authorities that does not have any significant meaning (both citizens deserve respect, but in historical terms, in my opinion, the fountain is fairer). It is more important (politically) to vote for a petition to abolish the restrictive coefficient for the appointment (calculation) of a military pension.
Link: https://www.roi.ru/70721 (for those who are registered on "state services").

[iouris]

will not. in general, who initiated the test of strength at this particular time and why?

[hydro]

already a big gap, alas, there will be Nevsky)

[Andros]

And if Vasily Kandelyabrov? that would remember that heaped up.

[Simon schempp]

On the Lubyanka of Iron Felix UNIFORMALLY!
And to return Stalingrad also UNDEFINITELY!
You must protect your history! And then dodekommuniziruetsya as svidomye.

A fountain to the Lubyanka!
Volgograd to Tsaritsyn!
The story is!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Simon Schempp

A fountain to the Lubyanka!

Yeltsin Center for demolition!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

before taking down the Chubas gozmans and the whole ear of Moscow

[Ingvar 72]

And the government in full force! Yes, and do not forget Navalny. And then erect a monument to the liberals, for the edification of descendants!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Ingvar 72

And the government in full force!

same not a bad option

[iouris]

not history, but a political choice!

[credo]

Quote: silberwolf88

Only Dzerzhinsky is appropriate there ... Nevsky is great ... BUT it would be more appropriate to look in Novgorod, or to steal Peter for them, if you really want to ...

The most important question is "Who and why needed this poll on the eve of the elections of deputies?"
On the one hand, no one has yet been able to submit legal documents on the legal dismantling of the Dzerzhinsky monument.
On the other hand, the proximity of the monument to A. Nevsky with the FSB building is also puzzling.
And this despite the fact that the very status of the site "Active Citizen" is not binding.
So the next thoughts come that someone is deliberately raising this issue at an untimely time.

[Installer]

Monuments are a treasure trove of the experience of previous generations, their mistakes, achievements, can be great or bloody. But this is history! You can't rewrite anything by removing or replacing the monument! It is necessary to return Dzerzhinsky. Nevsky can also be placed, but in another more suitable place.

[credo]

Quote: Installer

Monuments are a treasure trove of the experience of previous generations, their mistakes, achievements, can be great or bloody. But this is history! You can't rewrite anything by removing or replacing the monument! It is necessary to return Dzerzhinsky. Nevsky can also be placed, but in another more suitable place.

Not about the question, but about how appropriate now is the time to discuss it.
As I understand it, either someone decided to raise this issue in opposition to the authorities to unnecessarily excite the population, or the authorities themselves decided to check the reaction of the population on a useless website.

[Wertgan]

It would be more correct to think that some people in the authorities sabotage the proposal to restore the monument in this way. This shows how strong the tendency to worship the West is among the modern elite. On the other hand, they can be understood. After all, Felix is ​​a transparent hint that there will be purges ... The elites do not want purges. Everything is very clear. There is a political struggle.

[Olgovich]

Quote: credo

with building FSB

but this is not the FSB building, these are the buildings of two Moscow profitable houses, built before the thief.

And before the monument to felix on the ancient Lubyanka, a century stood monument of Russian architecture FOUNTAIN VITALI, which, according to the rule of restoration of historical justice, must be restored.

After all, everything is FOR the restoration of History?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Olgovich

TO THE THIEF

Before Yeltsin or before Putin?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Before Yeltsin or before Putin?

Before the thief and thieves who "built" Russia for 70 years borders of the 17th century and the Russian cross

[Ingvar 72]

It's good to cry about Russia, which we have already lost. Now, before our eyes, the destruction of culture, language, the sale of resources for glass beads is taking place.
It was Putin, not Yeltsin, who "cut" the Chinese territories for which the Russian people shed their blood. It is the current government, under the pretext of the development of the language, is engaged in its degradation, introducing Anglicisms into the explanatory dictionary. It is your Putin who presents the Order of Merit to the Fatherland to the young mediocre upstart, disgracing the truly worthy laureates of this order.
Hitler's plan Ost, and everything is exactly point by point.
This is the bottom, and you are all crying for the country that will never be. But by crying, you completely profuse what is left. Think about it.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Ingvar 72

It's good to cry about Russia, which we have already lost. ...

you take the trouble to give advice to YOURSELF, yes.

Quote: Ingvar 72

Now, before our eyes, the destruction of culture, language, the sale of resources for glass beads is taking place.

this happened all 70 years of the previous government: blown up and plundered the main monuments of Glory and Culture of the Russian people-the tombs of Minin, Pozharsky, Bagration, Nakhimov, Lazarev, OV 1812, RTR, RYAV, PMV and so on, etc., half of the Kremlin monument, Russian architectural pearls of Vladimir, Suzdal, etc. and so on were blown up, millions of books, icons and so it is not yours to stutter about the destruction of the culture, yes.

The resources were driven by the Bolsheviks, have you forgotten?
poisoning everything

Quote: Ingvar 72

It was Putin, not Yeltsin, who "cut" the Chinese territories for which the Russian people shed their blood.

you, lie, show the official figures of the area of ​​Russia before the "betrayal" and after.

2. From 1917 to 1940, 5 million km2 of territory was stolen from Russia, for which the Russians fought for 300 years

Quote: Ingvar 72

This is the bottom, and you are all crying for the country that will never be. But by crying, you completely profuse what is left. Ponder

not yours, who gutted the borders of Russia in the 17th century, the Russian cross and coupons for panties (one pair for a woman per quarter) by 1991, to talk about the day, yes.


in the meantime, return to Lubyanskaya Square her native historical monument-Vitali's fountain, demolished among tens of thousands of other monuments with yours.

[Ingvar 72]

Burned down barn, burn and hut?

[iouris]

and not weakly jump into the fountain, Voldemar?

[Deniska999]

It is more surprising that, in contrast to Dzerzhinsky, there was no other gripping figure other than Nevsky, which is eight hundred years apart from us. That's really no fantasy.

[voyaka uh]

"no other figure was found" ////
----
The most courageous figure of our time
in Russia -
this is Cheburashka.
Absolutely everyone likes him - communists, monarchists, liberals, nationalists, anarchists, Orthodox Christians, pagans, and Muslims.

Because, kind and cute.

Monuments should be erected to him everywhere.

[Pilot]

Quote: voyaka uh

"no other figure was found" ////
----
The most courageous figure of our time
in Russia -
this is Cheburashka.
Absolutely everyone likes him - communists, monarchists, liberals, nationalists, anarchists, Orthodox Christians, pagans, and Muslims.

Because, kind and cute.

Monuments should be erected to him everywhere.

But, but, this place has been occupied for 20 years .. judging by the data of VTsIOM.

[mole]

Quote: voyaka uh

"no other figure was found" ////
----
The most courageous figure of our time
in Russia -
this is Cheburashka.
Absolutely everyone likes him - communists, monarchists, liberals, nationalists, anarchists, Orthodox Christians, pagans, and Muslims.

Because, kind and cute.

Monuments should be erected to him everywhere.

I do not like Cheburashka, it is nicer than Crocodile Gena.
Stalin, Roosevelt and Trump are even nicer.
"Joke".

[Freeman]

voyaka uh (Alexey) Today, 19: 18
"no other figure was found" ////
----
The most courageous figure of our time
in Russia -
this is Cheburashka.

Cheburashka and the rest of the cartoon characters were sold to Japan.

https://rg.ru/2020/04/24/za-peredachu-prav-na-cheburashku-iaponskaia-kompaniia-zaplatila-30-tysiach-dollarov.html

[iouris]

This is not a monument, but a symbol, a sign of who is in the Big House. And for what. And take the Cheburashka and the cheburator for yourself.
"Let us be a common monument to the socialism built in battles" (V.V. Mayakovsky)

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: silberwolf88

Only Dzerzhinsky is appropriate there.

Quite right ... this Pole did a lot for the victory of the revolution ... A revolution is only worth something if it can defend itself!

[Clear]

Nevsky or Dzerzhinsky: Who Will Occupy Lubyanskaya Square

What is it about? Whoever originally stood there must be returned. And, only then, any fantasies of initiative writers and poets ...

[Simon schempp]

Whoever originally stood there must be returned.

So originally there was a fountain))

[Clear]

Quote: Simon Schempp

Whoever originally stood there must be returned.

So originally there was a fountain))

Yeah, fountain, who is this and in honor of whom?
Then the Skhodnensky skull, found in 1939 near the city of Tushino near the confluence of the Skhodnya River with the Moskva River, is the earliest evidence of human habitation in Moscow about 16-10 thousand years ago.(Wiki)

[Simon schempp]

Then the Skhodnensky skull, found in 1939 near the town of Tushino

As an option.

[mole]

Quote: Simon Schempp

Whoever originally stood there must be returned.

So originally there was a fountain))

Where is the world famous building ???

[Freeman]

Mole (Leonid) Today, 21:07
Where is the world famous building ???

Behind the back of the viewer.
You can assume that "Iron Felix" is looking at the fountain from the windows of his office.

[Thrifty]

Stop rewriting history to please someone - you just need to return the monument to Dzerzhinsky in its place! Bad or good, but this is part of our past, stop trampling on the history of Russia!

[for]

I told you to be upstairs and see more.

Who wants to vote, enter the voting site through the state. services and vote.

[mitroha]

I am for Dzherzhinky

[Lara Croft]

Quote: silberwolf88

Only Dzerzhinsky is appropriate there ...

Yuri Vladimirovich, it would also look appropriate there ...

[Nikon O'Conor]

I support. What does Prince Alexander have to do with Moscow? Felix Edmundovich should rightfully be at the Lubyanka.

[Aerodrome]

Iron Felix will definitely not be returned by these, in power ...

[paul3390]

That's for sure .. What if he, like the Bronze Horseman, starts to descend from the pedestal at night?

[Andros]

Thank you no more. Have already seen what they have done.

[paul3390]

Who's asking you, my dear?

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Aerodrome

Iron Felix will definitely not be returned by these, in power ...

Unfortunately, I agree, they will not return ... Just as the Mausoleum is hidden every significant holiday ...

[Andros]

God willing they will demolish this pyramid.

[lis-ik]

Lubyanka has always been associated with the KGB, at least for the foreseeable era. Dzerzhinsky belongs there.

[The leader of the Redskins]

You can make a knight's move - a statue of Nevsky, but with the face of Felix Edmundovich)))

In general, both are worthy candidates.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

both worthy candidates.

There is a monument to Minin and Pozharsky. Make a common monument to Nevsky and Dzerzhinsky! What? Both defended their homeland!

[Legionista]

Maybe Malyuta Skuratova? Born 300 years after the death of A. Nevsky, died 300 years before the birth of F. Dzerzhinsky. From the prince, you can leave the armor, from the Chekist, the semantic load, there is still a lot in common between the guardsmen and the Chekists.

[taiga2018]

In general, Moscow is the capital of Russia, if someone has forgotten, therefore, before making a decision, one should ask the opinion of citizens and the rest of the country, and not only Muscovites who smell of liberalism ...

[lis-ik]

Quote: taiga2018

In general, Moscow is the capital of Russia, if someone has forgotten, therefore, before making a decision, one should ask the opinion of citizens and the rest of the country, and not only Muscovites who smell of liberalism ...

With what fright the stink of liberalism? I'm for Felix !!!!

[taiga2018]

Excuse me, I personally did not mean you, and also a few hundred of the last who did not succumb to the pernicious influence of liberalism of Muscovites ...

[Simon schempp]

and not only Muscovites who reeked of liberalism ...

Or maybe easier to do? Erect a monument to Dzherzhinsky in your "patriotic city" if the "Muscovites who smell of liberalism" do not suit you.

[Moskovit]

Smell yourself first. If in your city they suddenly decided to erect a monument and ask Muscovites about it, the first would squeal.

[Gennady Fomkin]

And what is it that only Muscovites can vote? The question seems to concern the whole country.

[UVB]

The results of voting on the site "Russian Spring" at the moment

[shans2]

Only Nevsky, the defender of the Russian land, and every satanic thing ... back beyond the Pale ...

[Labrador]

and every satanic ...

It seems to me that it's time for you to put on rags and go to the monastery, and not climb the satanic Internet, and not trample the sinful earth with your clean feet.
For the Tempter does not sleep! The hour is not equal ... and a pure person will disappear

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: shans2

Only Nevsky, the defender of the Russian land, and every satanic thing ... back beyond the Pale ...

And what is this opus for?
However, I have a proposal to hold a "lottery" in the capital and send the winners to raise Sakhalin, or Kamchatka! Why, and so there is nothing more moronic could not come up with.

[Graz]

Dzerzhinsky was erected in front of the KGB building, now the FSB, if you erect a monument like this, a monument to the Intelligence officer. counterintelligence officer, I respect Nevsky, but there is no place for him for his monument

[Terenin]

Both individuals, this is our story. Russian history.
It's time to put two monuments side by side.

[Starover_Z]

Dzherzhinsky is a good monument! And the "addition" to the pedestal would have looked good - a cage with a bust of Gorbachev!

[Terenin]

Quote: Starover_Z

And it would look good "addition" to the pedestal - a cage with a bust of Gorbachev!

Yes, he is alive, and he himself must serve in it.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Starover_Z

Dzherzhinsky is a good monument!

Not just good, but great!

[mole]

Quote: Starover_Z

Dzherzhinsky is a good monument! And the "addition" to the pedestal would have looked good - a cage with a bust of Gorbachev!

It is better to put a cage in a zoo. Dzerzhinsky did not torture people. He worked intellectually.
Therefore, in the textbooks of foreign countries.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Terenin

Both individuals, this is our story. Russian history.
It's time to put two monuments side by side.

Better then back to back. They both drove out evil spirits.

[Konnick]

And if you combine, then the sheep are safe and the wolves are fed

[Victor Tsenin]

Rozhin cleverly noticed that hostile forces are again trying to oppose Nevsky to Dzerzhinsky, as it was in 2008, when Nevsky was butted with Stalin. And there is also an impudent cheating of votes.

[bober1982]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

cleverly noticed

They push their foreheads together, also cleverly.

[Clear]

Quote: bober1982

Quote: Victor Tsenin

cleverly noticed

They push their foreheads together, also cleverly.

The enemies of Russia have always been smart and cynical.

[Victor Tsenin]

Cynical, yes, smart no longer, because it is too predictable and moldy, the same thing.

[Clear]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

Cynical yes, smart no longer,

Now, I agree - degradation and cynicism.

[bober1982]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

Cynical yes, smart no longer

These very enemies know well the psychology of our people, patiently work with them and, at the right moment, they easily take people out onto the street, who turn into a crowd and then sweep away the power, as was the case with tsarist Russia and the USSR
Very, very smart people, devilish strength.

[Victor Tsenin]

The minority is 100% out of 100, but aggressive, dictating its will to the townsfolk. The more they understand, at least here, thanks to this interesting resource, the less chance of repetition and ruin, it is clear about what.

[Victor Tsenin]

So it is, behold at the root. But, of course, whoever thinks that such heresy will react strictly in the right way.

[bober1982]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

will react strictly in the right way

We have already begun to react and, just in the right way, and this is just the beginning.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

I would contrast Alexander Nevsky with Ivan IV the Terrible, both holy defenders of the Russian land! The son of the first received Moscow as his inheritance, and ruled the second capital city!
I somehow strained my convolutions and did not remember the monument to Grozny in Moscow?

[Clear]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

I somehow strained my convolutions and did not remember the monument to Grozny in Moscow?

That's right, Ivan the Terrible is a person, artificially demonized.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Clear

That's right, Ivan the Terrible is a person, artificially demonized

I will tell the blasphemous truth - Ivan the Terrible is a local (Moscow) saint! The ROC does not like to spread about this, but you cannot argue against the truth.

[Clear]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Ivan the Terrible is a local (Moscow) saint!

Yes, in the documents of the 17th century, Ivan the Terrible is called "the holy great martyr" in the calendar of the Koryazhemsky monastery, indicating the day of his memory. The fact of his veneration is noted by the famous church historian E.E. Golubinsky. The name of Ivan IV is included in the "Complete Monthly of the East" by Archbishop Sergius (Spassky) ...

[Victor Tsenin]

I do not advise you to be guided by the ROC, in my humble opinion, while Nikolashka the Bloody is revered there, there is no trust in this structure!

[Andros]

And where can you see these documents?

[Clear]

Quote: Andros

Full month of the East

Start from here.

https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Sergij_Spasskij/polnyj-mesjatseslov-vostoka-vostochnaja-agiologija/#0_1

[Victor Tsenin]

And is it drawn to oppose the defenders of the Russian land? Tighten)

[Clear]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

And is it drawn to oppose the defenders of the Russian land? Tighten)

And, nothing has changed, look for someone who benefits.

[Victor Tsenin]

What to look for, enemies, crooks and pests. There are truths that are incorruptible)

[Clear]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

There are truths that are incorruptible)

Truth is in the wisdom of the word,
lives in quiet lines.
Truth is the foundation of life.
Bitterness sometimes, not honey.

To truth, lies are not the enemy.
It will stand, it will win all.
She only disgusts stupidity.
How much of it is on the way!

Truth can burn you.
Can be circumcised into blood.
But it is impossible to renounce.
There is both strength and new in it.

Time running is her secret.
Here she is the mistress.
Truth is a space without an edge.
In it - depths of heights.

Grains of truth are incorruptible.
The main thing in them is Nature!
Truth is the center of the universe.
It means kinship with the Almighty.

Vera Kovalenko.

[Victor Tsenin]

You are smart, everyone has their own truth, but the truth is one.
Appreciated about God.

[Dread]

Victor Tsenin - truth and truth in Russian are one and the same. There is your opinion and mine, but the truth is one! Journalists do not know the Russian language - the meaning of Russian words, and therefore they often write nonsense on the Internet.

[Victor Tsenin]

Some think otherwise, he was not guided by a journalist, here it is closer to metaphysics.

[Cron]

Initially, they raised the question of returning the Dzerzhinsky monument to its rightful place, and then some cunning perverted it to a choice between Nevsky and Dzerzhinsky. Although the question should have been to return, or not. But since the answer was obvious, and someone really did not want it, they decided to arrange a competition between these undoubtedly great figures. They would also include Jesus Christ there.

[tatra]

Yes, the enemies of the communists will always distort everything as it suits them. So, when the question was raised on the Web that the name of Stalingrad should be returned to Volgograd, they climbed up with Tsaritsin.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: tatra

Yes, the enemies of the communists will always distort everything as it suits them. So, when the question was raised on the Web that the name of Stalingrad should be returned to Volgograd, they climbed up with Tsaritsin.

The choice must be left to the people! Although, to be honest, I am for Stalingrad.
However, I will please our members of the forum Communists and smile at the rest.
In the 30s, the executive committee of the Vladimir region decided to rename the city of Vladimir in honor of Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin). Until now, this decision has not been reversed!

[Clear]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

The choice must be left to the people! Although, to be honest, I am for Stalingrad.

I am also for Stalingrad!

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

I could be wrong, but Paris seems to have the Stalingrad metro station and New York City has Stalingrad Avenue.
That is, the enlightened and openly unfriendly West recognizes the feat of the Soviet people at Stalingrad, and we "show flexibility and political correctness."
I remembered another legend - the French President Charles de Gaulle, visiting the post-war USSR, wore a military uniform for the only time in Stalingrad. Thus, showing respect for the city and its defenders.

[ee2100]

And Stalingrad Boulevard

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka

I could be wrong, but Paris seems to have the Stalingrad metro station and New York City has Stalingrad Avenue.
That is, the enlightened and openly unfriendly West recognizes the feat of the Soviet people at Stalingrad, and we "show flexibility and political correctness."
I remembered another legend - the French President Charles de Gaulle, visiting the post-war USSR, wore a military uniform for the only time in Stalingrad. Thus, showing respect for the city and its defenders.

And George VI (King of England) during the Second World War, presented the sword to Stalingrad, the words are written on his blade:

In Russian: "To the citizens of Stalingrad * strong as steel * from King George VI * as a sign of the deep admiration of the British people." And in English: To the steel-hearted citizens of Stalingrad * The gift of King George VI * in token of homage of the British people. "
The Sword of Stalingrad is skillfully forged by hand from high-quality Sheffield steel by Coventry craftsmen. This English city was heavily destroyed by German aviation. He later became twinned with Stalingrad.
The official ceremony of presenting the sword took place on November 29, 1943 at the Soviet embassy in Tehran during a meeting of the leaders of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition. The Soviet military band performed the British and Soviet national anthems. Taking the sword in hand, Churchill turned to Stalin: "I have been instructed to present you with this honorable sword as a sign of the deep admiration of the British people." Stalin, accepting the sword, kissed the scabbard and thanked Churchill. Then he gave a gift to US President Franklin Roosevelt to see. He drew the sword from its scabbard, held it and said: "Indeed, they had hearts of steel!"

https://topwar.ru/23917-korolevskiy-podarok-stalingradu.html

[Victor Tsenin]

This is how it works. It seems that everything is clear what is happening, has someone from the Muscovites in touch expressed their opinion in the instance? I’m not being bullshit, I’m activating my questions in my city.

[Dread]

Complete disrespect for the KGB-FSB and the shame of modern Russia! Again, the liberals in power have won over common sense.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Complete disrespect for the KGB-FSB and the shame of modern Russia! Again, the liberals in power have won over common sense.

Well, you have already gone over the edge. It would be a shame if this topic were not discussed at all.
And what common sense is defeated? In your opinion, should everyone be for Dzerzhinsky as one? Is it forbidden to have a different opinion? Why can't someone quite sincerely vote for Nevsky? How did he displease you? Only that not Dzerzhinsky? But this is some kind of childishness.
And where are the liberals?

[lis-ik]

Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich

Is it forbidden to have a different opinion? Why can't someone quite sincerely vote for Nevsky? How did he displease you? Only that not Dzerzhinsky? But this is some kind of childishness.
And where are the liberals?

There is simply no correspondence in geographical terms, namely the Lubyanka and Nevsky (a feat of which no one belittles), you just need to know when to stop and stop dissembling.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: lis-ik

There is simply no correspondence in geographical terms, namely the Lubyanka and Nevsky (a feat of which no one belittles), you just need to know when to stop and stop dissembling.

I am with both hands for Edmundovich, but I think the decision to arrange a vote was correct. If someone is against Dzerzhinsky, then he should be able to express his opinion, and it does not matter what motives he is guided by.
In no case should dissent be deprived of the right to vote. After all, when the monument was removed, no one was asked. And they asked, so maybe he would have stayed.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Dread

Complete disrespect for the KGB-FSB and the shame of modern Russia! Again, the liberals in power have won over common sense.

What has the KGB-FSB to do with it?
Iron Felix founder of the Cheka-OGPU-NKVD.

[taiga2018]

When they demolished, no one asked for any opinion, and now they suddenly became so gentle, they are afraid to touch the nonsense of the liberals ...

[Clear]

Quote: taiga2018

When they demolished, no one asked for any opinion, and now they suddenly became so gentle, they are afraid to touch the nonsense of the liberals ...

This confirms once again that one timely action is more important than two correct ones.
Return where you took and leave, legally, as an initiative ... with whatever you want ...

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

I am personally for Edmundovich.

[tatra]

The enemies of the communists, and all 70 years under Soviet power, and all 33 years after their capture of the USSR in their Perestroika, for their country and people have only stupid, spiteful AGAINST everything Soviet. And a real vote-FOR the return of the monument to Dzerzhinsky at Lubyanka and AGAINST the return. Nevsky at Lubyanka is surrealism. I have already voted, naturally, for Dzerzhinsky. You can vote only through mos.ru.

[lis-ik]

Quote: tatra

... You can vote only through mos.ru.

Following this article. instantly voted for Felix. And generally speaking. Where is Nevsky and where is Moscow?

[Azef]

Well, someone really wants Solzhenitsyn to take this place of "snitches" ..And the people of Russia think for Felix! He fought with such ..
P / S / About five years ago, too, the poll muddied the liberal community "Face of Russia". Stalin came out on top and quickly closed the vote .. Now is another attempt, supposedly as the brains of ordinary people in Russia? The result will be the same. Nobody is forgotten, nothing is forgotten "gentlemen".!

[carstorm 11]

Felix is ​​worth returning. It's just that it will be correct, if only for the reason that it was generally demolished. Warriors with monuments are disgusting and disgusting. And there is always a place for Nevsky

[Yaro Polk]

I would generally I.V. Stalin ordered the liberal and the fifth column to strip off their thighs, passing and passing by the LEADER OF ALL PEOPLES.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: Yaro Polk

I would generally I.V. Put Stalin,

Oh yeah! But Vissarionych is better somewhere in another remarkable place.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Yaro Polk

I would generally I.V. Stalin ordered the liberal and the fifth column to strip off their thighs, passing and passing by the LEADER OF ALL PEOPLES.

There is no need to put Stalin on Lubyanskaya Square. There are more worthy and significant places with his name.

[paul3390]

The best monument to Comrade Stalin is the return of Soviet power ..

[iouris]

The monument was removed illegally, so it should be returned without a referendum (if the time has come) and those politicians who are directly responsible or who committed this barbaric act should be tried. Let them at least pay the cost of the work and get sanctioned for anti-state actions.
By the way, why is voting held only in Moscow? Moscow is the capital. This issue will affect all citizens of the Russian Federation (and maybe the former USSR).

[Prisoner]

As the ultraviolet of vampires-liberastov Solovyov said, this vote was invented by the "rottooth". Taking into account the shifts in the heads of the relevant structures and in the plans for the representatives of some media who have drifted along the western grubs, Felix Edmundovich is in the Lubyanka. That would not be forgotten the enemy husk.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Captive

As the ultraviolet of vampires-liberast Soloviev said

So he himself is a liberal, and an orthodox one.
This is what amused and puzzled me on this topic - why are all ardent zaputintsy advocating for Felix?
For me, it's a pattern break.

[Olgovich]

Quote: iouris

The monument was removed illegally, so it should be returned without a referendum (if the time has come) and those politicians who are directly responsible or who committed this barbaric act should be tried.

I agree 100%: there was no referendum on the demolition and the time has come to return the monument to its place and it is necessary to judge those politicians who are directly responsible or committed this barbaric act to demolish the famous architectural monument of Lubyanka Square - FONTANA VITALI!

[Gardamir]

need to judge those politicians

You are living in a parallel reality. Who destroyed the Volgograd Tractor Plant and there are many such examples.

[Andros]

It was destroyed by competition with higher quality production.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Olgovich

need to judge those politicians

and those who staged the February coup of 1917 will be judged?

[t-12]

It is clear that Dzerzhinsky will not be delivered. For he is a communist, a revolutionary. And the communists are bad (unlike the capitalists). Therefore, Nevsky will be elected by "democratic expression of will". Well, like: "what's the difference, this is also a monument."

[MstislavHrabr]

Cool. For your comment 5 - against one. The bottom line is minus one!

[Graz]

how will Alexander Nevsky feel about the FSB building?
would then erect a monument to some scout

[depressant]

Colleague, I will explain it as I understand it.
We perceive with irony the letters of nobility, which were "awarded" to members of the government and deputies of the State Duma - awarded by the "grace" of Princess Maria, the self-proclaimed heiress of the Romanov dynasty. And they, "awarded", take those letters seriously. By erecting monuments to Russian warriors and tsars on the squares of the capital city, they load our subconsciousness with them, "awarded", with involvement in the history of the Russian Empire, instilling in us gradually that they are the continuers of this history, therefore, we are obliged to perceive their worthless deeds as filled with deep the meaning and greatness of the coming victories of Russia.
Judge for yourself: a monument to Tsar Peter, a monument to Prince Vladimir, and now they want Alexander Nevsky, then someone else on some square - there are many squares in the capital! And now, in the subconsciousness of an ordinary citizen, smoothly penetrating into the consciousness and asserting itself in it, quite tangible contours of the Russian Empire appear, and the letters for the nobility of our high officials and Duma members gradually cease to seem like a stupid whim.
Isn't that the goal of our powers that be? Is not the goal and in this way - among many others - a way to consistently bring our spines into a state of better bendability in comparison with what is in front of them, the rulers, and to the West to show the hereditary right of our bad managers to their, managers, significance and even greatness is not a goal? And in the context of the longed-for greatness, everything Soviet is out of sight! And this is with them, through the gnashing of teeth with hatred, and with our proud understanding that the USSR was just the heir to the glory of our great ancients and remains so.
What are they counting on? On the proverb: a drop and a stone wears away.

[Tank jacket]

+1 For Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky.

[Momotomba]

At the Lubyanka, Felix looked modest and powerful at the same time.

[place]

At the very beginning of the voting, massive stuffing "for Nevsky" was noted. What blogger Zakhar Prilepin wrote about. So for sure, the result will be "For Nevsky", although why hell is he on Lubyanka, no one understands.

[senima56]

You shouldn't do foolishness either: you put it on, then you took it off ... now you put it again? Once they have already removed it, there is no need to return it. Then either A. Nevsky or the fountain.

[Narak-zempo]

We need a monument to the leader, whose figure unites supporters of both Nevsky and Dzerzhinsky (in the correct, patriotic way, since we do not need fans of Nevsky as a protege of Batu and Dzerzhinsky the revolutionary). And this figure is Putin.

[paul3390]

And this figure is Putin.

Uh-huh .. For example-Putin in a Roman toga, trampling on the constitution with his foot .. Or is there Putin-on a shaken horse loudly promising not to touch the retirement age. Yes, there are many worthy subjects for the monument to this figure ..

[Tochilka]

it is possible to cast all of these subjects in granite ™ and use the resulting bas-reliefs to arrange a pedestal. For instance. But Dzerzhinsky should still be standing on Lubyanskaya Square.

[rocket757]

And who was there before ???

[7,62x54]

Several times in recent years, various votes have been held, where Iosif Vessarionovich was a participant. Miraculously, the voting data changed, and Nevsky was appointed the winner.
To please the Kremlin diaspora, Nevsky was undeservedly turned into a dummy "winner".
And this is the result of long, painstaking work.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Quote: 7,62x54

Joseph Vessarionovich

Vissarionovich.
Well, what about you?

[7,62x54]

Thank you for correcting

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

Thank you for your appreciation!

[rocket757]

To put on "Uncle Kuzya" so that no one would be offended ... although, claims to such a monument will not be measured. It never happens that everyone feels good at once.

[MstislavHrabr]

The move of real Jews ... They are afraid even of the shadow of Iron Felix ... We decided to oppose Dzerzhinsky to the most popular historical figure among our people. Of course it is necessary to erect a monument to Nevsky. But not at the Lubyanka. I would put it at the entrance to the Patriot Park! With the inscription: "Whoever comes to us with a sword will die from him!"

[Prisoner]

I have the greatest respect for Alexander Nevsky, but Dzerzhinsky should be on the Lubyanka.

[Andros]

There will be no Felix, Soviet symbols are of interest only to a rapidly diminishing handful of dreamers about the ridiculous Soviet past.

[Prisoner]

Boy, did your mom let you interfere with adults' conversations?

[Andros]

Is that all the dreamers could think of in response?

[tatra]

And what symbols from the history of your country are of interest to you, the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people? Who from the history of your country did you remember for 33 years after your capture of Russia NOT for the sake of profit in your anti-Soviet system?

[Phil77]

You know, Irina, for a hundred years there was a fountain on Lubyanskaya Square, yes, yes, from 1830 to 1934.

So why not restore it the way it was? Then there will be no dispute, no?

[tatra]

THAT is what was required to prove. The enemies of the communists have NO symbols in the history of their country, there are no great people of their country and people, there are no real heroes. Of all the ruling Romanovs, you "remembered" only the latter for the sake of profit in your anti-Soviet system to justify the capture of the USSR by you, and you falsified its rule.

[Phil77]

Are you delusional? What is the last Romanov? What to prove? I suggested the most justified option devoid of ideology. And what do I hear from you in response? Your eternal mantra about * enemies of the Communists *? study the history of your city, it will be more useful.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Phil77

So why not restore it the way it was, then the item won't be there, no?

Hello, Sergey! I am afraid that there will always be a subject of controversy. If not here, then there, if not there, then around the corner.

To be honest, I do not know which is more correct. Alexander Nevsky is a symbol and pride of patronymic, but in fact, unfortunately, it is not appropriate on Lubyanskaya Square.
Felix Edmundovich and the fantan one stood for half a century, the other for more than a century. Here are the true competitors, but do they interfere with each other.

[Phil77]

Hi Vlad! Well, really, I can hardly see Dzerzhinsky at the Lubyanka TODAY.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Phil77

Hi Vlad! Well, really, I can hardly see Dzerzhinsky at the Lubyanka TODAY.

This is your city and you decide.
Because of corporate solidarity, I would like the monument to Dzerzhinsky to be, but the fountain is more beautiful.
So I'm on a rampage.

[Richard]

Why not put both monuments on the square? And the historical fountain, and F. Dzerzhinsky. There is enough space on the square. And so that there is no shit - the fountain at the expense of the Moscow budget, and "Iron Felix" is restored with funds raised by FSB officers and veterans of the KGB, FSB. That would disappear the reason for disagreement - the Moscow fountain, "Iron Felix" - departmental. I would, for example, as a PV veteran did not refuse to list, and there are quite a few of them in the country

[Phil77]

This is very reminiscent of the debate about the removal from the mausoleum and the burial of Lenin. The main time is right. The country has no more problems! We will solve this and live!

[Olgovich]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Felix Edmundovich and the fantan one stood for half a century, the other for more than a century. Here are the true competitors, but do they interfere with each other.

one stood for only 33 years (nothing, in fact), and the fountain -century.

The fountain is the history of the development of Lubyanskaya Square and Moscow, its decoration and monument

As well as the most beautiful buildings of the pre-military tenement houses (the current FSB).

So the fountain cannot have any competitors.

Dzerzhinsky, on the other hand, can stand in an area built under owls authorities-in Cheryomushki, for example, on Builders Street. There he will be in place.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Phil77

So why not restore the way it was?

with carts and other attributes?

[Phil77]

Well, why bother? You perfectly understood what I meant, no? As for the carts, some graduates of the * forestry school *, you know what I mean ?, prefer to celebrate their graduation with a parade on * Gelenvagens *. not?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Phil77

So why not restore it the way it was? Then there will be no dispute, no?

What contribution did the fountain make to the history of the country? It is not only about decorating the square, but also about perpetuating the memory of the person who left a noticeable mark in the history of the COUNTRY. A. Nevsky is such a figure, BUT ... A monument to him is appropriate in Pereyaslavl-Zalessky and Novgorod. It is possible in Moscow, but why in the Lubyanka? But it is on the Lubyanka that the monument to F. Dzerzhinsky is appropriate.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

What contribution did the fountain make to the history of the country?

the same as the fountains of Petrodvorets

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

This is not only about decorating the square, but also about perpetuating the memory of the person who left a noticeable mark in the history of the COUNTRY.

The Soviet leader is in the Soviet region of Cheryomushki. To the Soviet metro.

It has nothing to do with the history of the ANCIENT Moscow Lubyanskaya Square.

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

... A. Nevsky is such a figure, BUT ... A monument to him is appropriate in Pereyaslavl-Zalessky and Novgorod. It is possible in Moscow, but why in the Lubyanka?

Nevsky on the Lubyanka is not needed, you need a historical look with a fountain.

How the Cathedral of Pozharsky was restored on Kr Square, how is it planned to restore the Chudov Monastery in the Kremlin, etc.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Olgovich

How the Cathedral of Pozharsky was restored on Kr Square, how is it planned to restore the Chudov Monastery in the Kremlin, etc.

Great. So the monument to Dzerzhinsky should be restored at Lubyanka, where the headquarters of the service he created is located.

[Andros]

And if you erect a monument to the victims of his service? For example Vavilov.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Great. So the monument to Dzerzhinsky must be restored

to be restored HISTORICAL age-old Moscow FOUNTAIN, not a] remake of the Trotskyist Khrushchev to the noble Trotskyist (after Stalin) Dzerzhinsky

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

on Lubyanka, where is service headquarters created by him.

the service existed before him and was called the "Department for the Protection of Public Safety and Order" and was located on the street. Gorokhovoy, 2, St. Petersburg

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Olgovich

the service existed before him and was called the "Department for the Protection of Public Safety and Order" and was located on the street. Gorokhovoy, 2, St. Petersburg

He said, just to say something.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

He said, just to say something.

gave the FACTS.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Olgovich

gave the FACTS.

Will these facts somehow influence the choice of the monument? I say - blurted out, just to blurt out.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Will these facts somehow influence the choice of the monument?

Yes

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

I blurted out just to blurt out.

What for?

[Phil77]

What contribution did the fountain make to history? Yes, none, it was just beautiful. You definitely need a monument? So maybe it is worth erecting it to those people thanks to whom the current * Chekists * live in this beautiful building? These are those who created it at the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries . Please love and favor. Russian architects.

Worthy? My opinion is yes.

[Freeman]

Quote: Phil77

You definitely need a monument, so maybe it is worth erecting it to those people thanks to whom the current * Chekists * live in this beautiful building?

The Russian architects you named laid the foundation, so to speak.
Their creations, for the needs of the then NKGB-MGB, were completely rebuilt in 1944-1948 by the architect Alexei Shchusev.

The house received its final, "symmetrical appearance" only in the 1980s under the direction of the architect Gleb Makarevich.

[Phil77]

Everything is correct. But initially this apartment building was supposed to become a kind of competitor of the * National *. And only after the well-known events did it become what we know it. But it was these architects who stood at the origins? ? Question, isn't it?

[Freeman]

Quote: Phil77

Everything is correct. But initially this apartment building was supposed to become a kind of competitor of * National *. And only after the well-known events did it become who we know it. But at the origins it was these architects who stood? ? Question, isn't it?

Unfortunately, there is practically nothing left of their brainchild, except for old bricks hidden under the new layout and plaster.

[Phil77]

The question, of course, is a bit controversial, but if you consider what is left of that system, of the state that F.E. Dzerzhinsky served. To be honest, there is not the slightest desire to argue which is better and who is better for this old I have already written above that this whole * survey * is very reminiscent of the theme of Lenin's body and the mausoleum.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Freeman

Their creations, for the needs of the then NKGB-MGB, fully rebuilt in 1944-1948 by the architect Alexei Shchusev.

full bullshit: old buildings still standing : the central part was completed to them and the facades were slightly changed (but still, they look like the old ones).

Foundations, main walls, ceilings, openings, stairs. cells are all pre-VORovskoe.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Phil77

What contribution did the fountain make to history? Yes, no, it was just beautiful. You definitely need a monument? So maybe it is worth erecting it to those people thanks to whom the current * Chekists * live in this beautiful building? These are those who created it at the turn of the nineteenth

Good offer. And next to put a monument to the foreman who built this. And from the other side to the one who brought the bricks. And what, after all, without their work, the architectural project would have remained on paper.
To what insanity people can reach, just not to erect a monument to Dzerzhinsky.

[Phil77]

Of course, of course! You are right, well, who is this architect? Well, he built the house and that's it? The scope is certainly not the same. Not worthy.
With regards to insanity, then, my dear, you would be more careful with such statements.

[Phil77]

Your arguments are partially accepted, but ... Is it not clear that part of society will not accept this monument of a bygone era? Voting / provided that the counting was fair / ended almost in a draw. Well, do you really need, at best, disputes around this monument? there was little contention in the twentieth century in our long-suffering country? Even here on the site a hundred years after the Civil War, there are * white * and * red *. Let our descendants resolve this dispute, provided that it is still relevant.
I would like to add that without unnecessary emotions, it was interesting to discuss with you.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Phil77

I would like to add that without unnecessary emotions, it was interesting to discuss with you.

So there was no discussion. The counter-arguments to my arguments were so-so ...
1

Quote: Phil77

Is it not clear that a part of society will not accept this monument of a bygone era?

Isn't the monument to A. Nevsky the same - a monument of a bygone era?
But that A. Nevsky, that F. Dzerzhinsky is all - our history. And if it so happened that the monument to Dzerzhinsky stood on the Lubyanka and was demolished illegally, then it must be restored in its old place.

Quote: Phil77

Was there really little contention in the twentieth century in our long-suffering country? Even here on the site a hundred years after the Civil War, there are * white * and * red *.

And the one who came up with the alternative vote, did he not understand where this would lead? I understood, and deliberately, purposefully kindled these differences.
But we will never know the name of this m-ts. Unfortunately.
PI. SI. If the monument to Dzerzhinsky was erected not on the site of the demolished fountain, but on the site of another monument, I would be against it. And I would advocate the restoration of this previously standing monument. And the fountain ... it is more appropriate to put it in some public garden or park.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Phil77

Worthy? My opinion is yes.

How did the activities of these quite worthy people affect the life of the state? No way! And the activities of Dzerzhinsky are very even.
In addition to the creation of the Cheka-OGPU, Dzerzhinsky restored the work of the railways, created the Dynamo sports society, saved about 7 million street children from illness and death. It was these children who made the best FED cameras in the world at that time.
Is it possible to compare the activities, albeit remarkable, architects, with the activities of Dzerzhinsky?

[Andros]

The fountain is a useful thing and does not depend on the political situation.

[Andros]

Well, the history of Russia is much more general than not the best period called the USSR. Nevsky was offered.

[tatra]

Well, enough of the eternal hypocrisy of the enemies of the communists. That now Nevsky is only AGAINST Dzerzhinsky, that on the project "Name of Russia" you were not FOR Nevsky and Stolypin, but AGAINST Lenin and Stalin. Yes, what a positive history of your country and people can be among the enemies of the communists, if even for yourself, and for what you have done, there is nothing good.

[Andros]

Well, at least they didn't starve their people, they didn't destroy the intellectual elite.
And by the way, yes, I hate the communists for what they did to my country, they will never be forgiven.
And please write your comments in a more thoughtful way, otherwise you have some kind of fragmented stream of consciousness ...

[tatra]

The ideology of the anti-Soviet clique is to justify the chronic famine under the Romanovs, and to declare every famine in the presence of those from whom the clique took the country a "Holodomor", to justify political repression, executions, mass deportations under the Romanovs, and to declare it a crime under Soviet power, and all those repressed by the Soviet government casually declare "not guilty of anything, the best, the most hard-working, the gene pool and the color of the nation." The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people have everything strictly according to the manuals that are beneficial to them to justify the capture of the USSR, not the slightest deviation.

[Andros]

1.The famine under the Romanovs justifies the famine under the USSR?
2. There has never been any Soviet people.
3. And by the way, the enemies of the Soviet regime won, Russia is already without the communists - and nothing is lost.

[tatra]

Yes, your clique DOES NOT CARE about all those who starved and died of hunger, and you declared hunger under Soviet rule a crime of power. YES, the people on the territory of the USSR all 103 years of the Soviet and your post-Soviet periods are divided into the Soviet and your ANTI-Soviet, which did not do ANYTHING useful for their country and people for these 103 years, only instilled anger and hatred, unleashed wars, but for that, what you DID both under Soviet power and after your seizure of the USSR, all of you cowardly whine in chorus that you have nothing to do with this, and you fall into hysterics when I call you enemies of the Communists, trying to cowardly pretend that you yourself not .

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

. Does the famine under the Romanovs justify the famine under the USSR?

there was famine even before the Romanovs for specific reasons, only you blurted out above that it was not in Russia before the USSR

Quote: Andros

And by the way, the enemies of the Soviet regime won, Russia is already without communists - and nothing is lost.

29 years after the end of the Second World War and the most terrible devastation, the Union launched a man into space, thirty years after the counter-revolution, 91 years we do not even release our cowards

Quote: Andros

There has never been any Soviet people.

go ...
in the ear of Moscow

[Andros]

That you just want to shoot those who are wiping their feet about your miserable ideals. Yes, only your time is over - you are temporary.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

in elderberry garden
what does it have to do with shooting and what does it have to do with ideals?
agree with the thesis that the achievements of the USSR and the Russian Federation for an equal period of time and qualitatively better positions at the start of the Russian Federation are not comparable ?!

[Andros]

Not. We must see how long the RF will last. And the conditions of the union were better - there is a lot of cheap labor, now there is no such thing. And I don’t need to tell about how much remained after the USSR - the industry of the union, with some exceptions, was uncompetitive.
By the way, after the king, too, a lot of things remained.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

... And the conditions of the union were better - there is a lot of cheap labor, now there is no such thing.

What kind of education do you have?
you want to say that in May 45 the union had better starting positions than the Russian Federation at the end of 91 ?!

Quote: Andros

the union industry, with a few exceptions, was uncompetitive.

oooh
let's not talk about it, otherwise I'll put you in such a puddle that you can't even show your nose from there

Quote: Andros

By the way, after the king, too, a lot of things remained.

you will sit even deeper and leave the myths about the RI industry

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Well, at least they didn't starve their people, they didn't destroy the intellectual elite.

learn history, do not crunch rolls Russia was starving and strong throughout its entire history
do you know what was the cause of the turmoil of the 17th century?
about the elite, to put it mildly, generally a finger in the sky

[Andros]

Can't you read? We (that is, myself included) did not starve the people with hunger.
And you must admit that famine in the 17th century and in the 20th are not the same thing.
I remember Maxim Gorky directly accused the Bolsheviks of organizing the famine of 21 years, 33 years as a direct consequence of collectivization.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

I remember Maxim Gorky directly accused the Bolsheviks of organizing the famine of 21 years, 33 years as a direct consequence of collectivization.

apparently you really do not know about CX ANYTHING, especially for you
small private trader TECHNOLOGICALLY UNABLE TO FEED THE COUNTRY
only large enterprises are capable of this, that is, collective farms, by the way, they coped with this task
hunger has nothing to do with the establishment of collective farms

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: Andros

Well, the history of Russia is much more general than not the best period called the USSR. Nevsky was offered.

So what? Rejoice everyone, applause and shout bravo, bravissimo !!!!?
At a minimum, Muscovites should have a choice, and the choice is not from the first and second, from the many options they have proposed.
And then somehow they "suggested the same Nevsky", or maybe Muscovites would have chosen a "pissing boy" or "Tolstoy cat"?
Okay, I'm from the city of Besov, we have already gone through a similar choice: a temple with a couple of shopping and entertainment cents instead of a public garden! You were given a choice! ???

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

a temple with a couple of shopping and entertainment cents instead of a square!

Has the temple won?

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

a temple with a couple of shopping and entertainment cents instead of a square!

Has the temple won?

No Vladimir, we have achieved what remains a historical square!

[Andros]

I suggest Vasily Kandelyabrov.
Or Vavilov.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Well, the history of Russia is much more general than not the best period called the USSR. Nevsky was offered.

name the period during which Russia achieved the same power as under the Union

[Andros]

Well, there was a time when no cannon fired in Europe without the permission of Russia, and there was a time when the whole world was waiting for the Russian tsar to fish.
The achievements of the union were bought at a disproportionately high price. It would have been possible to fly into space later, but the Russian peasantry could not be returned.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

and the Russian peasantry cannot be returned.

By the way, who destroyed the Russian peasantry and when ?!

[Andros]

Who carried out the collectivization?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Who carried out the collectivization?

especially for those who are in the tank, collectivization to destroy the peasantry in any way
learn mate part

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Well, there was a time when not a single gun fired in Europe without the permission of Russia

a metaphor that has NO RELATIONSHIP to reality

Quote: Andros

there was a time when the whole world was waiting for the Russian tsar to fish.

a cheap show-off of one of the extremely unsuccessful rulers, as a result of whose inept rule financial catastrophes and the defeat of the Russo-Japanese War occurred

[Vadim237]

Not quite so - but there were a lot of absurdities in the USSR, and they eventually overwhelmed the country.

[tatra]

For the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, everything "by itself" happened. And the USSR itself "self-destructed" "because it rotted, because it was not viable from the very beginning, because of the fall in oil prices, it crumbled like a house of cards," and your anti-Soviet states on the territory of the former USSR "spontaneously" appeared.

[Vadim237]

This house of cards is yours and you have erected the same thing since 1922 - that you are complaining, you built it yourself and blew on it.

[tatra]

Ha, I have listed the nonsense with which the enemies of the USSR justified the capture of the USSR by you. There is such a concept inaccessible to the enemies of the communists - like logic, and therefore you constantly want to prove one thing, but you prove the exact opposite, as, for example, your benefactor Putin with his "galoshes" trying to blame the USSR for the "market economy" created by you, he himself admitted, that you have created a BAD economy in Russia. So, if normal people seize their country for good purposes, they, unlike you, will not cowardly blame others for the seizure, they will not slander those from whom they have taken the country, they will not come up with such nonsense that I quoted.

[Andros]

Yes, a normal economy suits me. The fact that you did not fit into the market is your problem - why should I care?
You are all about the enemies of the USSR, but where were you, its defenders, what did you do?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Yes, a normal economy suits me.

and what does not suit the USSR?

Quote: Andros

The fact that you did not fit into the market is your problem - why should I care?

teachers and doctors did not fit the same how to deal with it
we have an average salary in the east of the region (Kaliningrad) of 15 thousand, is this a normal economy ?!
my acquaintances travel 30 km in one direction for 72 thousand, and the work of hell

[Andros]

1. Apparently something did not suit the USSR, or are you a denouncer of the USSR's betrayal from the sect?
2. You and your friends get exactly as much as your work costs. If you had the ability to earn more.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Apparently the USSR did not like something

what didn’t suit you ?!

Quote: Andros

you and your friends get exactly as much as your work costs.

apparently YOUR knowledge of economics is not enough for anything
and apparently you don’t understand or don’t know, or maybe you’re just playing the fool that you don’t know HOW salaries are formed

[Andros]

1. Well, my knowledge is enough to earn 5 times more than your friends.
2. On account of what the union did not suit you, the inhabitants of the republics that were part of it, especially the Balts and Ukrainians, can explain very easily.
3. I have an idea of ​​how the salary is formed. That is why you get as much as your labor is worth. Disagree - try to sell it at a higher price.

[Andros]

Well, this is the natural course of history. Vaughn and the British Empire collapsed. Or do you see conspiracies and betrayals everywhere?

[tatra]

What does the British Empire have to do with it? Contrary to the ravings of the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, countries "by themselves" do not fall apart, they are being ruined by PEOPLE, and the fact that the enemies of the Communists, who divided the USSR among themselves, cowardly discard responsibility for this - they themselves recognized their dismemberment of the USSR into their separate anti-Soviet Russophobic States - their crime against their country and people.

[Andros]

Well, it is clear that you have a monopoly on the truth.
Calm down - your USSR has been gone for a long time, and no one really longs for it ...
And the British Empire is here despite the fact that it also collapsed, although it was a much more significant phenomenon in world history than the USSR.

[tatra]

That's the whole ideology of the enemies of the USSR - delirium and malice. And never get rid of the USSR YOU, enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, because your spiteful, slanderous anti-Sovietism with your hypocritical "righteous anger" and "philanthropy" to the facts under Soviet power, which in all other cases you do not care about. the only justification for your seizure of the USSR, and your justification for your crimes and your accomplices of the interventionists and Hitlerites, and your "ideology" and your "history" of your country and people.

[Andros]

The impression is that I am communicating with a bot. Some kind of enemies of a long-vanished state ...
No specific answer.

[tatra]

Yes, no need to get out of it in a cowardly way. The enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people are generally unable to do anything normally. Here, Prilepin and other supporters of the USSR suggested RETURNING the monument to Dzerzhinsky to Lubyanka. If the enemies of the USSR were normal, they would have arranged a vote - are you FOR or AGAINST the return of the monument. BUT no, for some unknown reason they dragged Nevsky, climb with a fountain, staged a srach against everything Soviet.

[Andros]

That is, if people want to erect a monument that does not suit you, they are not normal. Okay, I understand. The main thing is not to be nervous. Otherwise, the enemies of the USSR are all around ...

[tatra]

Well then, learn to conduct discussions, and not just be angry AGAINST. Explain why next to the main building of the Soviet and Russian repressive bodies there should be a monument not to one of the leaders of these repressive bodies, but a monument to a semi-mythical personality - Alexander Nevsky?

[Andros]

It is necessary for me to learn to conduct discussions and? This is written by a person who has not written a single sane comment? One insane howl about some kind of enemies and the primitive answer "you are all lying."
The monument to Nevsky will stand in accordance with the survey results. There will be no monument to the murderer in the Russian government.

[rocket757]

Quote: Andros

The monument to Nevsky will stand in accordance with the survey results. There will be no monument to the murderer in the Russian government.

Suppose Nevsky was not white and fluffy either, like Dzerzhinsky was some kind of executioner, and so on ... at different times, different heroes should be evaluated then ... when deep in the subject!
We have a big country, people are different and for a reasonable, calm, constructive, for a normal life and development, you should not tear the society into friends and foes ... WE HAVE NO OTHER PEOPLE !!! but the pressing problems are above the roof and it is possible to work on their solution ONLY TOGETHER !!!

[Andros]

But you do not doubt who the monument will be on the Lubyanka.

[rocket757]

I have no doubt that it was not started on TIME.
And so, both are OUR HISTORY, and it cannot be deleted from the memory of people for nothing.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

but there were a lot of absurdities in the USSR; in the end, they overwhelmed the country.

give examples of absurdities

[Andros]

Well, for example, they tried to point the way to the future for all mankind, but they could not even feed their population - or rather, they did not let this population feed itself.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I understand that you never lived in the Union

[Andros]

Well, this is your favorite argument. So I lived in a union.
And I suppose you are one of those who have a gyrus from a cap?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Well, this is your favorite argument. So I lived in a union.

who worked with ?!

Quote: Andros

And I suppose you are one of those who have a gyrus from a cap?

University Physics Department

[Andros]

What difference does it make to you who I work? There are no vacancies for you.
And what have you achieved at your physics department? I have never heard of your discoveries.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

And what have you achieved at your physics department? I have never heard of your discoveries.

there, in fact, teachers and engineers were trained
only now the factories where we were supposed to work thanks to the drunk giked

[Karabin]

Quote: Andros

about the ridiculous Soviet past.

And let's give up ridiculous nuclear weapons, admit that the USSR is guilty of unleashing WWII on a par with Germany and give up the ridiculous Victory Day and, for one, the ridiculous flight of Gagarin?

[Andros]

I fully support some of your suggestions. We will not touch Gagarin's flight.

[Karabin]

Quote: Andros

We will not touch Gagarin's flight.

Well, why? In the ridiculous past, the flight must be ridiculous. And it’s somehow illogical.

[Andros]

And let it be an exception to the rule.

[Karabin]

I would agree with you if Korolev and Gagarin organized the flight, having thrown off a couple of salaries.

[Andros]

No, just Korolev managed to survive in the Stalinist camps. But Langemak - died at the hands of the heirs of that which monument will no longer be on the Lubyanka.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

No, just Korolev managed to survive in the Stalinist camps.

but do not specify for what he got there?

[Andros]

No, I will leave this right to you.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

that is, all you know is five hundred mule tortured?

[Andros]

Here are a couple of links.

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA,_%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%AD%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87

https://drevo-info.ru/articles/13671250.html

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

for those who are in the tank I repeat the question, WHAT WAS THE KING FOR ?!

[Andros]

On June 28, 1938, the NKVD of the USSR was arrested and prosecuted for belonging to the Trotskyist, sabotage organization operating in the scientific research institute No. 3 (NKB USSR) and the former engineer of the said institute, Sergey Pavlovich Korolev, was brought to justice. Do you seriously believe this? What blow do you think you can get such a confession out of you? Tell someone else about the wrong developments Korolev - who could know better what is more important for the country, the man who opened the way into space or the stupid follower of Iron Felix?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

clear
that is, we don’t know the topic
unfortunately or not I can’t judge, but ABSOLUTELY all articles with the exception of outright criminal at that moment were brought under the policy
and sat down korolev for misuse of budget funds

[Andros]

I'm afraid that you are not familiar with the topic, you are little respected. Your fantasies are not interesting to me.

KOROLEV SERGEY PAVLOVICH, born in 1906,
harvest. mountains Zhytomyr, Russian, Mr. USSR, non-partisan,
before arrest - engineer of the Research Institute-3 of the NKB of the USSR,
in that:
Since 1935, he was a member of the Trotskyist sabotage organization, on whose instructions he carried out criminal work at NII-3 to disrupt the development and commissioning of new types of weapons by the Red Army, that is, in the crimes of Art. 58-7, 58-11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR.
He pleaded guilty, but subsequently refused his testimony.
It is exposed by testimonies: Kleimenov, Langemak, Glushko; witness statements; Smirnov, Rokhmachev, Kostikov, Shitov, Efremov, Bukin, Dushkin and acts of expert commissions.
The case on the charges of Korolev should be sent to the Prosecutor's Office of the USSR according to the jurisdiction.
The indictment was drawn up on May 28, 1940 in the mountains. Moscow.
Investigator of the investigation of the Main Directorate of the NKVD of the USSR
ML. LIEUTENANT OF STATE SECURITY / RYABOV /
POM. START. TRACKS of the Main Directorate of the NKVD SSSP
CT. LIEUTENANT OF STATE SECURITY / LIBENSON /
"AGREE" START. TRACES of the Main Directorate of the NKVD of the USSR
MAYOR OF STATE SECURITY
/ VLODZIMIRSKY / "

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

once again especially for you
instead of making missiles for multiple launch rocket systems, queens took up a cruise missile
this is what caused the case, everything else is air
study the topic so as not to look stupid

Korolev reveals that:
In 1936, he led the development of a powder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo — devices with photocells — for controlling a torpedo and aiming it at a target cannot be manufactured by the central wire communication laboratory, Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work, intensively led the development of the missile part of this torpedo in 2 versions .
As a result of this test, four torpedoes built by Korolev showed their complete unsuitability, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more relevant topics (ld 000-250).
In 1937, during the development of the side compartment of the torpedo (winged), he made a wrecking calculation, as a result of which the research work on the creation of the torpedo was disrupted (ld 23-24, 256).
Artificially delayed the production and testing of defense facilities (object 212) (ld 21, 54, 255).

Korolev was a talented designer, but he was an extremely difficult person, he didn't care about the interests of the state, his wishes and ambitions were at the head
by the way, as a general designer, he already ruined many not bad things

[Andros]

Your fantasies are not interesting to me. It is not for you to judge what kind of work is needed and what are the interests of the state. And certainly not to judge the investigators from the Lubyanka.
If in the post-war years they acted according to the same patterns, the USSR would never have had missiles - there were so many accidents and "insurmountable" problems.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

are you really a zombie?
he did what he could not fly for technological reasons, for state money at a state enterprise on the eve of the war
again, what is your education?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

about the ridiculous Soviet past.

you have the opportunity to write nonsense in tyrnet solely thanks to this "ridiculous" past

[Andros]

I don't see the connection. Tyrnet is a product of the USA.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

I don't see the connection. Tyrnet is a product of the USA.

well, very neglected, try to strain your gyrus, you are given a second attempt
or are you one of those who broadcast about the possibility of eating Bavarian sausages, etc.?

[Andros]

1. Do you seem to be unable to strain?
2. History will definitely not give you a second try.
3. What's the power problem? Can't afford sausages?

[Cowbra]

In general, leave an empty pedestal as a monument to stupidity. Attach a plate to the side - the monument was demolished by vandals - and a list of those who stood up by name. So that no more such nonsense occurs.

[Andros]

Well, let's put the artistic merits of the demolished idol are not too great.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

demolished idol

Well, yes, is it better for you?

only now Iron Felix was fighting homelessness in the country, the drunk bred her

[Andros]

I specifically looked out the window - I did not see the crowds of homeless children who had been brought up by some kind of drunk. Apparently we live in different Russia. Or are you not from Russia?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

you are the most ordinary troll

[Andros]

Well then, congratulations - you are an extraordinary troll.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

you could not answer ANY direct question
either you don't know or you are fooling
it was with the drunk that there was an increase in child homelessness in the country, it was with the drunk that there was a huge increase in child pornography and along with Thailand, podophiles rushed to sex tours to us

[Andros]

I do not comment on any nonsense. If you are accusing some drunk you will be kind enough to provide evidence. Presumption of innocence - have you heard?

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

I do not comment on any nonsense. If you are accusing some drunk you will be kind enough to provide evidence. Presumption of innocence - have you heard?

Easy, just look at photos and videos of the 90s, is that not enough for you? Or is it not Yeltsin or from his hands?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

If you are accusing some drunk you will be kind enough to provide evidence.

excuse me
but while YOU are writing nonsense
proof is the GROWTH of the number of homeless children during the reign of the drunkard (EBNa)

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

provide evidence. Presumption of innocence - have you heard?

[/ Center]

[Andros]

Well, Yeltsin has something to do with it. Did he solder the parents of these degenerates. In principle, it is not bad that the country got rid of the last of the waste that bred under the USSR.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

and Yeltsin has something to do with it. Did he solder the parents of these degenerates.

Degener is you, even if I get banned or get a warning
drunk created the conditions under which these children were on the street

[Andros]

Yes, it would be nice to ban you - not a single argument, only drooling and snot.
How did some drunkard send these children out into the street? Did he make their parents drink the last one? In 90 it was not easy, I remember, but normal people were able to survive and remain human, the degenerates were dying out. And among the deggerates, children are rarely geniuses.

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

Yes, it would be nice to ban you - not a single argument, only drooling and snot.
How did some drunkard send these children out into the street? Did he make their parents drink the last one? In 90 it was not easy, I remember, but normal people were able to survive and remain human, the degenerates were dying out. And among the deggerates, children are rarely geniuses.

What do you remember? You weren't there then, if you write nonsense. Learn to write, "smart".

[Andros]

That you've sniffed glue again? How can you know if I was then.
I appeal to you because I have no respect for drug addicts.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

how old are you, what did you finish and when?
I graduated fifty dollars from Kazakh State University Physics Faculty
I created my own company at 9, moved to Russia, I live on the land, I work for myself again, I sell honey, milk, plus I work with a Moscow company, I pay taxes, I have enough money
but you are a kid, what have you done in life yourself, except in the tyrnete crap?

[Andros]

Maovsh is engaged in oil and gas production, there is enough money.
As I understand it, as a scientist, you are not successful, and as a comerce you are not very successful. And you crap it, trying to prove that you represent something from yourself. In a dispute, you can only do primitive attempts to get personal.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

and as a comerce you are not very successful

funny but you do not admit the possibility that a person was engaged not in commerce but in production?
and who told you that it is not successful
what about "not a scientist"
so there was no one left in my specialty from my stream, scientists were not needed in the 90s, but I wanted to eat, so I created my own enterprise, and about comers, I was a kid with the 80s and not badly, I had enough then and now

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

not a single argument, only drooling and snot.

boy you were given a LOT of arguments, but you are not a single fact, except for you you need and you are looking for

Quote: Andros

How did some drunkard send these children out into the street?

and you kid do not know how apartments were squeezed out, how people were driven out into the streets, does not know what was happening in orphanages?
where are you confused in the testimony

[Andros]

Yes, I am aware of a lot of things. Weak degenerates lost what they had broken off from the state at the expense of those who really worked - most of them survived. Natural selection has not been canceled.
1. You did not give a single argument.
2. You can speculate about what happened in prisons, concentration camps at different times. Have you been to these orphanages?
3. So far, you have one argument - an attempt to get personal. So you're tired of me "baby" oversized.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Weak degenerates lost what they broke off from the state at the expense of those who really worked

DEBATE IS OVER
there is no desire to communicate with you, even through the monitor it stinks

[Andros]

And there was no debate. Your intellectual level is only sufficient for splashing saliva. Your ridiculous emotions are ridiculous.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

Your intellectual level is just enough to spray saliva. Your ridiculous emotions are ridiculous.

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

I specifically looked out the window - I did not see the crowds of homeless children who had been brought up by some kind of drunk. Apparently we live in different Russia. Or are you not from Russia?

why are you rolling over? What did you see in the 90s? How many homeless people and beggars?

[Andros]

Well, there was a liberation of the country from the degenerates. This might well have been expected. It was necessary.

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

Well, there was a liberation of the country from the degenerates. This might well have been expected. It was necessary.

Not everyone was released, one writes here and is still trying to prove something to me. A capitalist to the fig? Marketer?

[Andros]

Yes, it looks like you all have one argument - the transition to personalities.

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

Yes, it looks like you all have one argument - the transition to personalities.

it is rather your feature. They tell you something else, they rested.

[fa2998]

[quote = Sidor Amenpodestovich] In your opinion, should everyone be for Dzerzhinsky as one? Is it forbidden to have a different opinion? Why can't someone quite sincerely vote for Nevsky? How did he displease you? [/ quote
There was a Soviet film (I don’t remember the name), where the girl was asked, “What do you choose, will they either take your head off, or are we going to the dacha?” In this position, Muscovites are now. before the Chekist the fountain was (and still exists). Or leave it as it is, we will decide in 50 years.

[yuratanja1950]

"As usual, Vladimir Zhirinovsky showed his originality. In his opinion, the best candidate is ... the fountain, which once stood on the site of the monument."

Wolfovich again got to the point .... I also had a predominant desire to find out, but what was THERE, on the site of the monument to Dzerzhinsky, before that? And, accordingly, if something that does not defile someone's feelings, then return it ... Well, the fountain, just according to the modern (ugh, I do not like this word) - will be tolerant for everyone ...
PS True, Kozma Prutkov would have been alive, he would have laughed and also approved Zhirik's speech with his phrase: "If you have a fountain, shut it up" ...

[Vadim237]

Better to build a monument there with a small square and put a fountain in the same place, otherwise there is only one stone around.

[Phil77]

Vadim! Not to put, but to restore. That is so, a small remark. The fountain was, as I wrote above, since 1830.

[Vadim237]

In this case, there is nothing to restore at this place - a solid concrete-stone platform can only be re-installed.

[lelik613]

Is the fountain a statue of Wolfych? Nice! Stopped up? Brilliant!

[tralflot1832]

Felix Edmudovich Dzerzhinsky. Everything !!!

[APASUS]

In that Europe, to which it is customary for us to refer all the time, there were no fewer tyrants of our own, but monuments are not broken there (for example, Franco - half of the country hates him there, and half of the country is charity). This is a sign of degradation of society. I should have left him, just everyone should know who it is.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: APASUS

but the monuments are not broken there (Franco's example - half of the country hates him there, and half of the country is philanthropic)

Thanks for the information from your universe, news from ours:

In Spain the last monument was dismantled to the fascist general Francisco Franco. The monument, which until recently was preserved, was installed in the Melilla enclave, but the local councilors voted to demolish it. A statue of Franco has stood at the gates of the city since 1978. On Wednesday, February 24, workers dismantled it.

https://www.interfax.ru/world/752272

[Karabin]

But the Moscow authorities "slightly" altered this idea and decided to add another candidate for the post of "owner of Lubyanskaya Square" - Prince Alexander Nevsky.

Some Moscow authorities are not conscious. Could add a third candidate - V.V. Putin. 1. The unsurpassed savior of the Fatherland and
knee lifter. 2. The experience of a Muscovite is more than that of Dzerzhinsky. 3. It has something to do with the Lubyanka. I think the monument to the GDP would have received 76% of the votes of Muscovites. Monuments to the Chekist and the Prince are quietly smoking aside.

[Karabin]

Vladimir Zhirinovsky showed his originality. In his opinion, the best candidate is ... a fountain,

And inside the fountain there is a monument to Zhirik in a clown costume.

[for]

Who wants to vote, enter the voting site through the state. services and vote.

[Alexander X]

I voted for Felix. For there is nothing to film that was not staged. Well, and it is better for descendants to read about his deeds ... Having seen this monument, those who are interested, at least in the Internet, will crawl into the Internet and pick out both good and bad about him ...

[ccsr]

As usual, Vladimir Zhirinovsky showed his originality. In his opinion, the best candidate is ... the fountain, which once stood on the site of the monument.

Not a fig - he wants to save a place for his monument.
And Dzerzhinsky must be returned, at least in memory of those who stood at the origins of the creation of the USSR. So we will approach the monument to Stalin, otherwise it is a disgrace to the whole world - there was a head of state in the most difficult time, and there is not a single monument to him in Moscow.

[bk0010]

There was another interesting proposal about a cage with Chubais ...

[ksan]

Quote: Cron

Initially, they raised the question of returning the Dzerzhinsky monument to its rightful place, and then some cunning perverted it to a choice between Nevsky and Dzerzhinsky.

This "cunning" - Venediktov, but this "bright" idea of ​​this degenerate alone is unlikely, HE is most likely just a "talking head"

[Vadim237]

For Nevsky.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Vadim237

For Nevsky.

justify
what relation does he have to the Office or to the Lubyanka ?!

[Andros]

He is related to Russia.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Andros

He is related to Russia.

why not Ivan the Terrible?

[Andros]

So suggest it. But I would suggest his father or grandfather - more positive characters.

[lelik613]

Why head?

[Dimide]

Elections and poll-voting are just around the corner, nothing more than a clever PR move from Prilepin and Co., so that the name is heard by a certain electoral group.

[codetalker]

I tried to vote today, they said: “prove that you are 18 already” ... but they did not say how to prove it)))
It is clear that the votes will be distributed “as it should”. It is interesting that throughout Russia (I think) Felix would have had an overwhelming superiority, but in Moscow there is really something about 50/50. I'm afraid our management corps is not yet ready for this (for Felix), there is still a large mass of managers "from the 90s" and their ideological (and biological) heirs in state administration. But the very fact of such discussion and voting demonstrates the dynamics of changes in the ideological state of our administrative corps.

[albert]

It is possible to arrange a poll at the Military Review. Everything will be visible at once. After all, VO is also a cut of society.

[ee2100]

"The results will be announced on March 5" is very symbolic. The day of the death of I.V. Stalin.
And if all the same to Alexander Yaroslavovich, will it be Cherkassy again?

[CommanderDIVA]

The overwhelming majority of the Chekists, no matter what the monument will be on the square, this generation has other idols

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

The vast majority of security officers do not care

Do you serve in the Office ?!

[tochila]

All willing citizens of Russia must vote !!!

[Pamir]

And what is wrong with Felix Dzerzhinsky? The problems of the struggle of the WKB (b) against counterrevolution were solved. He was engaged in child homelessness, rangefinder cameras FED, his minors produced. Why did Felix not deserve recognition? Nevsky is understandable, for the preservation of Russia, he fought for wear and tear, but this person of another era, in a very important region for Russia, with the monuments and veneration he needed. By the way, in the Red Army, there was the Order of Alexander Nevsky, a very prestigious and very beautiful military order, one of the most beautiful BATTLE orders, in the award system, for distinguished junior and middle commanders (officers) was. Why was it canceled? But it is not clear, it is not clear why they crossed one with another, and in almost eight centuries, with different functions of departments? .Nevsky voivode (Army), F. Dzerzhinsky, leader of the Cheka (KGB-FSB, the fight against counterrevolution, spies, security of the country's secrets), according to the current time it is counterintelligence inside the country. Dzerzhinsky, a representative of the FSB, where is the logic of the government? And there is one mutual exclusion with another? Where is Nevsky and Moscow of that time, principalities alone, he won Rus in the north-west, Dzerzhinsky seemed to be doing something else, fighting oh with elements of counterrevolution, and Lubyanka has more to do with Felix. For the monument to Nevsky Novgorod, Moscow, the General Staff at 1 Znamenka Street, and Lubyanka is the patrimony of counterintelligence on its territory, this is F.E. Dzerzhinsky.
And the choice offered by the authorities of the capital is the opposition of the personalities of different departments, and a conscious one.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

and what does Alexander Nevsky have to do with it?!!!
except Iron Felix, no one is appropriate there

[Andros]

But what if it’s a fountain?

[Andros]

Moscow authorities have decided to suspend the vote on installing a monument on Lubyanka Square and leave it in its current form, city mayor Sergei Sobyanin said.
Take it easy

[Ural resident]

Why is only Moscow voting? This is a national matter...

[evgen1221]

The Soviet past is painfully unpleasant for the newcomers, I think that for the sake of this they will slightly boost their votes for Nevsky.

[Krasnoyarsk]

= At the same time, the network is already expressing the opinion that this vote was organized only to ensure that the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky was not returned to the place where it once was. =
That’s how it is, there’s no need to go to grandma’s here.
My personal opinion, with all due respect to A. Nevsky, a monument to him should be erected in another place, if in Moscow. And it is especially appropriate in Pereyaslvle-Zalessky and Novgorod. And Lubyanka must be given to F. Dzerzhinsky. Those. return to the old place.

[depressant]

Colleague Krasnoyarsk, but if you think about why they suddenly raised the topic of an empty memorial site, then two goals are visible.

1. Relieve the tension of the discussion on Navalny, take it into the shadows. After all, a negative, but too often mentioned figure is steadily turning into a politically significant one, and the further, the more so. Just days earlier, no matter what resource you go to, Navalny is everywhere. A bad mention is good PR, silence is bad. So they take him away from Navalny. Let's have a discussion about the monument, have some useful fun. And exactly! The number of mentions of Navalny in the press sharply declined, the press seized on the memorable place.

2. The figure of Dzerzhinsky is merciless, thunderous, powerful, corresponding to the power of the emerging USSR, in which it was not customary to stand on ceremony with the enemies of the political system. So compare, citizens, compare with the current punitive actions!... Have you compared? Aren't you scared? Many people make mistakes! You were just hit with a baton, your face was smashed, you were imprisoned for 15 days, and you were fined. But you don’t want to do it this way - like Dzerzhinsky? This is a hint, they say, appreciate our mercy! Realize how dissatisfied you really can be. Well, if you insist on Dzerzhinsky, then don’t say that you didn’t want to. Politics may follow the monument. Yes, a hint. Threat.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: depressant

1. Relieve the tension of the discussion on Navalny, take it into the shadows. After all, a negative, but too often mentioned figure is steadily turning into a politically significant one, and the further, the more so.

Maybe so, maybe not so. No matter how you remember a cow's cake, it still won't smell fragrant and won't change its shape.

Quote: depressant

Yes, a hint. Threat.

Threat to whom? To those who grabbed it? To those who do not pay their salaries on time? To those who sneak their thieving little hands into the state treasury?
Or those who are unhappy with their miserable life?

Quote: depressant

This is a hint, they say, appreciate our mercy! Realize how dissatisfied you really can be.

Did Dzerzhinsky really fight against the DISSATISFIED? In my opinion, he fought against the ENEMIES of power. The dissatisfied is not the enemy. He's just dissatisfied.

[Pamir]

Yes, someone quietly downvoted the last six comments, without explanation. And this happens. Someone does not support the monument to the security officer, however.

[Radical]

Quote: Victor Tsenin

Rozhin cleverly noticed that hostile forces are again trying to oppose Nevsky to Dzerzhinsky, as it was in 2008, when Nevsky was butted with Stalin. And there is also an impudent cheating of votes.

Quote: Pilot

Quote: zloybond

In general, it is not clear why Muscovites are arguing? That is our capital, the whole world must decide. Give a stupa with Baba Yaga !!!

Yes, they put on everyone as in the 91m, wangyu that the variegated liberota will win, whose iron Felix, like a sickle, on candelabra, more of them in non-rubber like fleas on Barboske.

Moscow teachers have already received an SMS from the leadership with a proposal to vote for A. Nevsky, so everything is as always... .

[Sands Careers General]

Only Iron Felix should be in charge at Lubyanka.

[lopvlad]

the opinion is expressed that this vote was organized only to ensure that the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky was not returned to the place where it once was.

does anyone have any doubt that this is not so?

[Moskovit]

Russia is full of monuments to revolutionaries; streets, towns, and cities are named in their honor. Is this not enough? The monument to Dzerzhinsky will be restored. And will honest, disinterested people suddenly appear in the FSB? Will the billionaire colonels and cemetery aces remember that they actually have to defend their homeland? If the office workers want it so much, let them put it in their courtyard so that it reminds them what a security officer should be like. Maybe under his gaze he will understand them.
The Nevsky monument is even more out of place there. If only because his beloved Novgorodians lived on Lubyanka). And the fountain is good

[Usher]

"Liberda" came out. I read such nonsense in the comments. And most importantly, they write so cleverly and convincingly, mixing their lies with half-truths. You can clearly see how they spit saliva. I can imagine such a typical Moscow liberal “hamster”, about 28 years old, with a moronic beard from a barbershop, definitely a “partak” on his arm, the meaning of which he does not understand. Slightly fattened, works in an office. This is the main backbone of the fifth column.

[Andros]

But here you will sputter with saliva.

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

But here you will sputter with saliva.

hello hamster.

[Andros]

Hello gopher.

[tasha]

It is interesting that during the life of Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin, a monument to Comrade Dzerzhinsky was not erected on Lubyanka Square. It was installed only in 1958, on the initiative of N.A. Bulganin, who began his service in the Cheka. Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev supported the creation of the monument.

[Andros]

It turns out that Khrushchev is a great guy?

[BISMARCK94]

Russian folk pastime - erecting monuments to controversial personalities)

[Andre___86]

STALIN can STILL be installed. I think he would have gotten votes)))

[silverwolf88]

in fact, the ratio of minuses and pluses under my first comment is the real results of the vote... DZERZHINSKY won... even if various kinds of liberals will not allow him to be placed in the square... long live the world's first state of workers and peasants... All power to the Soviets

[Konnick]

Quote: MstislavHrabr

Even the shadows of Iron Felix are afraid...

They are not afraid. Felix the Iron became Golden. This photo was taken in one of Zolotov’s guard divisions

[BAI]

although the ancient Russian prince is slightly ahead of the professional revolutionary and security officer - 51 percent versus 49. T

And the voting results in “KP” at that time showed 60% for Dzerzhinsky, 40% for Nevsky.

[Knell wardenheart]

At the moment, this rearrangement is, to put it mildly, inappropriate - I (not approving of the actions of the people who removed the monument to Dzerzhinsky) would note a certain symbolism of this action in the context of the protest of the masses against the total control of the services of that time - accordingly, the restoration of the monument in the same place in our, frankly speaking, difficult and not bread times, it will “kakbe hint” at what is not useful. Let's just say that I see this as unhealthy symbolism in light of the events of recent years.

[iouris]

I read your reviews, gentlemen and comrades. The conclusion is this: the civil war continues. The more important question is who occupied the Big House, and not who will occupy the area. Because either the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie or the dictatorship of the proletariat.

[sniperino]

I wonder if the agitators' approach is changing. There was a monument to Alexander II in Samara on Alexander Square,

Ilyich was placed on its pedestal in Kuibyshev and the place was renamed Revolution Square

Should Samara, having returned its historical name, return both Alexander and the name of the square to its historical place? In my opinion, Dzerzhinsky should be returned to Lubyanka, and Alexander II should be returned to Samara. The basis for my choice is the need to restore the historical connection of times in the minds of Russian citizens. In the USSR, this connection was broken deliberately and everywhere in order, through mankurtization, to root in people’s minds the idea of ​​a “new world,” which must be built without any pity, love, or respect for the past of one’s country, destroyed “to the ground,” like dust. Therefore, the party implanted its symbols, not only where the USSR was building something new, but also where our ancestors created their world, destroying public historical consciousness and the consciousness of every person.

[1536]

Even if we limit our knowledge of history to the film of the great S. Eisenstein, it is clear that A. Nevsky was entirely dependent on the boyar will, i.e. “they will invite or not invite” to reign in Novgorod, they will let you assemble a squad, they will not let you assemble a squad, you have to fight, you don’t have to fight, etc. Isn’t it the dream of those who want to put power in Russia under their complete control? Rus' from the 40s to the 60s. The XNUMXth century is not even a state, but principalities divided among themselves, scattered over an immense territory, subordinated partly to the Horde, partly to the Poles, partly to the crusaders, who, on the orders of the Pope, sought to destroy Orthodoxy in the lands of Eastern Europe. What is not the dream of those who want to realize the idea that small “states” are easier to govern. It’s just that they are silent about who will manage these new formations, who will control them?.. The struggle to unite the Russian lands around Moscow will take place later, already in the XNUMXth century. Here there will be the Kulikovo Field, and the rise of Moscow, and the gradual unification of lands under the centralized power of Moscow (!) princes, and much more. But this will happen without Alexander Nevsky.
Nevsky’s life is service to people, a feat, several victories significant for North-Western Rus', overcoming dangers when communicating with “partners,” as we would put it now, and a martyr’s end. But why should there be a monument to this man on one of the main squares of the capital? As a symbol that Moscow should turn into the Novgorod Republic? Then what will happen to the country?
The provocation against Muscovites was a success. And there is only one way out. It suggests itself: do not put anything in this place. It’s like in January 1905, not going to bow to the Tsar, staying at home and acting differently, which the Bolsheviks called for, who, by the way, was F.E. Dzerzhinsky.
But it’s best to restore the Nikolsky Fountain, which had been there since 1835 and was moved in 1934 to Neskuchny Garden. Here I completely agree with those who initially proposed this option, without hurting anyone’s religious feelings, political sentiments, etc. will signify modernity. They restored the Cathedral of Christ the Savior on Volkhonka, solved all the engineering problems, despite all the difficulties and the chorus of “no” votes. Fear the Danaans who bring gifts!

[rta2]

There will be a few more generational changes and the issue will be closed

[hydro]

of course closed, such anti-advertising of the USSR on social networks)))))))))))))))))

[hydro]

the generation under 30 did not live in the USSR at all!

[rta2]

This is a sample of 45 and older

[2k11]

Quote: Olgovich

built BEFORE VOR.

then before VOSR, you still need to be more precise in your definitions, although if THIEVES are closer to YOU....

[Radical]

Quote: Andros

Well, let's put the artistic merits of the demolished idol are not too great.

This is how an ignorant person unfamiliar with the work of the author of the monument, or a banal troll, can reason.

[Andros]

In fact, as a symbol of the Soviet punitive agency, a monument to Vasily Vasilyevich Kandelyabrov would be appropriate

[Usher]

Quote: Andros

In fact, as a symbol of the Soviet punitive agency, a monument to Vasily Vasilyevich Kandelyabrov would be appropriate

punitive?

[Andros]

Is not it so? The Cheka is the punishing sword of the revolution, etc., etc..

[was-witek]

When they demolished people they didn’t ask, but now they’ve held a vote!!! Felix in place and period.... Sinkevich in jail for unlawful actions in 91.

[Andros]

But they didn’t even ask when they installed it...

[1536]

They made a mistake with the "demolisher's" surname, dear. And he didn’t demolish the monument, but followed the lead of the crowd, most of whom were, to put it mildly, drunk, and by and large saved many people from injury in the event of a huge statue falling, by moving a huge crane and removing it from the pedestal. But why didn’t they calm this crowd down then? Among those gathered in the square, there was a thought that now the doors of a formidable building would open, armed people called upon to protect the security of the state, as well as one of their main symbols, would come out and disperse this crowd of unreasonable people, subject to the “crowd effect,” of people. But this did not happen, and, apparently, it could not have happened.

[Andros]

Well, that's the point for now

“The Moscow authorities decided to suspend the vote on installing a monument on Lubyanka Square and leave it in its current form, said the mayor of the city, Sergei Sobyanin.”

That's all - the issue is closed for now.

[zwlad]

Of course Nevsky will win. But we need to install Iron Felix so that the West is afraid.

[aiden]

Yes, wait for Navalny and that’s it

[U-58]

I'm following the vote.
Its numerical values ​​are clearly orchestrated with the aim of preventing Dzerzhinsky from allegedly democratically

[iouris]

Result: on Lubyanka there is a copy of the Freedom Monument (virtual). Can't you see her back? And she is.

[Pushkar]

Perhaps I agree with Sobyanin, who said that nothing needs to be restored or installed on Lubyanka Square - let it remain clean for now.

[cost 75]

I'm for Felix

[mmaxx]

I specifically took part in all these votings. Largely for the sake of looking at the intermediate results. I myself am not a Muscovite, and the city is not mine. At the intermediate stages, the iron Felix won by a dashing margin. And then suddenly it’s equal. There is an imitation of voting. And vote stuffing. And then present everything as a people's decision.
What does Nevsky have to do with Lubyanka? And to Moscow?