"This is saving the lives of tank crews": Israel will supply "Windbreaker" complexes for German Leopard 2 tanks

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Today, the Israeli military department published a message about a contract with German partners on equipping the main military tanks Leopard 2.

The message says that the German tanks will receive Israeli active protection systems (KAZ) "Meil Ruach" ("Windbreaker"). These are KAZ, which in the English version are designated as ASPRO-A or Trophy. They are produced by the Israeli military-industrial concern Rafael.



The statement of Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz is given. According to him, the Vetrovka active protection systems are “saving the lives of tank crews”.

Benny Gantz:

These are advanced systems that demonstrate the capabilities of our military-industrial complex. Germany has shown that it trusts our KAZ.

According to the head of the Israeli military department, the contract underlines "the industrial power of Israel and the importance of cooperation with European partners."

The German military department noted that “they are eagerly awaiting the introduction of the Leopard 2 tanks with the Israeli Vetrovka active protection systems into service with the German Armed Forces.

The Israeli army has repeatedly used the KAZ "Vetrovka" in hostilities. In particular, it is argued that during one of the phases of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the "Windbreaker" on the "Merkava" tanks made it possible to intercept the ATGM complex "Kornet". It was reported that one of the Israeli soldiers received shrapnel wounds.

Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).
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    1. -3
      23 February 2021 14: 08
      Fig knows him. There are many tales about KAZ, but how much they really help is a question
      1. +14
        23 February 2021 14: 12
        This is not a panacea. But this is a chance to remain combat-ready in certain circumstances.
        1. +1
          23 February 2021 18: 47
          "This is not a panacea"
          That's right!
          But, at the same time, KAZ is becoming a necessary element of protection.
          And not only tanks, but, for example, air defense systems, etc. from high-precision ammunition, such as drones, "suicide", adjustable art. shells and mines of homing elements of cluster munitions.
          The main thing is that the KAZ elements themselves are reliably protected from bullets and shrapnel, and not offered in the form of "mounted" kits, and even more important is the comprehensive protection of the BTT on the battlefield.
          Those. fire defeat of enemy weapons, effective electronic warfare, various types of camouflage, maneuver and, of course, reliable traditional armor and remote sensing.
          1. -9
            24 February 2021 01: 46
            We are just ahead of everyone in the KAZ sense.
            "Thrush" when it was still created, and now "Arena" is in service, the "Afganit" is already in the state of the third generation on the "Armata".
            And mattresses and others are only introducing the Jewish "Trophy" generation 1+.
          2. 0
            24 February 2021 14: 39
            KAZ is a temporary measure.
            The USSR developed active reusable systems of more subtle and accurate countermeasures
            this was one of the reasons why KAZ did not develop particularly.
            Israel somehow got all the USSR's achievements in this area and this is its "power".
            Therefore, he can develop advanced systems, but there is no really serious approach,
            they have no protection from their own spike, practically no protection from the lower hemisphere, and there are a number of other limitations.
            But even the old KAZ T-72 of the latest modifications makes it very resistant to ATGMs.
            I saw how helfires, tou and RPGs of various modifications were shot at them.
            It is difficult to be sure that you will disable the tank after 2-3 hits.
            In addition, there is still no sane and established tactics of interaction between infantry and tanks with KAZ.
            Now the range of the PTO has increased and the tank can cover the infantry only in areas with short direct vision (mountains, urban areas, forest).
            The density and accuracy of anti-personnel fire has also increased greatly, and in general, a big question arose - where is the place of the infantry on the battlefield and what is its role.
      2. 0
        23 February 2021 14: 13
        From the massively used RPGs and ATGMs, they help, like. Do not protect against Javelins, Spikes, and high-speed missiles
        It's just that not everyone has the latter
        1. +6
          23 February 2021 14: 23
          Before Turkey entered Syria, it was said that the Leopard is the most protected tank ...
          1. +5
            23 February 2021 15: 21
            And about the Merkava until 2006, the same was said about other tanks. In fact, there is no equipment that cannot be destroyed)).
            1. +2
              23 February 2021 15: 30
              Krasnodar hi look, fellow countrymen from the forum for your seditious statements that the "chariot" is not an unaffected tank "will eat" lol hi
              1. +3
                23 February 2021 15: 45
                Quote: Thrifty
                Krasnodar hi look, fellow countrymen from the forum for your seditious statements that the "chariot" is not an unaffected tank "will eat" lol hi

                I congratulate you and your loved ones on the holiday of the defenders of the Fatherland! hi
                In Israel, everyone serves in the army, so recently arrived immigrants who arrived after the draft age (27 years) and people under 18 years old can seriously discuss the inimitable tanks and morale there. laughing
                1. +4
                  23 February 2021 17: 32
                  Krasnodar - and you, and those who served in the Soviet or Russian army in Israel, for whom February 23 is not an empty phrase, I congratulate you on the Holiday! drinks good drinks
                  1. +3
                    23 February 2021 17: 37
                    Thank you, reciprocally. soldier love from ->
                2. +1
                  23 February 2021 17: 48
                  I will correct. Repatriates. Expats usually don't talk about it and / or at the wrong age.
                  1. 0
                    23 February 2021 20: 27
                    Quote: ironic
                    I will correct. Repatriates. Expats usually don't talk about it and / or at the wrong age.

                    Olim - ascended to Zion! fellow Happy holiday to you!
                    1. 0
                      23 February 2021 21: 45
                      Thank you. Hurrah! good
              2. +2
                23 February 2021 15: 50
                Quote: Thrifty
                Krasnodar hi look, fellow countrymen from the forum for your seditious statements that the "chariot" is not an unaffected tank "will eat" lol hi

                What is sedition? He's absolutely right.
              3. 0
                23 February 2021 17: 14
                You have some stigma in the idea of ​​the adequacy of fellow countrymen.
                1. 0
                  23 February 2021 17: 30
                  Ironic - you did not understand the irony in my comment! !! hi Although, people are all different, there are those who are glad that at least in something, but better than their opponent! There were similar errors of genetics in life, with a complete lack of logic fool fool
                  1. 0
                    23 February 2021 17: 36
                    Sorry, I misunderstood you. drinks
                    1. +1
                      23 February 2021 17: 40
                      Ironic drinks - it's good when you can find the truth in a dispute, at least like this, on the forum! If only politicians all over the world solved problems and found optimal solutions by the method of only disputes, and no threats, and no blood. ... hi drinks
                      1. +1
                        23 February 2021 17: 44
                        To do this, you need to have adequacy on both sides of the dialogue. Where it is, the solution is possible by political means. good
              4. +1
                25 February 2021 11: 38
                Quote: Thrifty
                that the "chariot" is not an unbreakable tank

                so the Israelis themselves say that the 4th carrot has an insultingly serious weakness in booking
            2. 0
              23 February 2021 15: 40
              Quote: Krasnodar
              And about the Merkava until 2006, the same was said about other tanks. In fact, there is no equipment that cannot be destroyed)).

              And rightly so. It was not about " impenetrable"tank, but itself"protected"Other, less protected tanks (Leopard in Syria and Merkava in Lebanon) behave much worse. We saw this on the T-72 flying turrets.
              1. -2
                23 February 2021 15: 46
                Quote: professor
                Quote: Krasnodar
                And about the Merkava until 2006, the same was said about other tanks. In fact, there is no equipment that cannot be destroyed)).

                And rightly so. It was not about " impenetrable"tank, but itself"protected"Other, less protected tanks (Leopard in Syria and Merkava in Lebanon) behave much worse. We saw this on the T-72 flying turrets.

                Yes, that's all clear.
              2. The comment was deleted.
                1. -1
                  23 February 2021 17: 18
                  They fly. I myself saw the first tests at that time, quite straight from the tiniest 4-k. True, 72s were from export versions, but what did not fly there.
                2. +1
                  23 February 2021 20: 16
                  Towers do not fly more often on vehicles from MZ than from AZ. Proven by Donbass! And it cannot be otherwise. Because the difference in the conveyor height is 150 mm in total! Only pallets of charges are rising. So don't be stupid! Even in the USSR, when they fired at cars in Kubinka, they were recognized as equivalent!
              3. +1
                25 February 2021 11: 52
                Quote: professor
                on the flying towers T-72.

                tank, which is almost 30 tons lighter and, as a rule, very outdated versions, the armor of which did not save 20 years ago. You "forgot" to add this, as well as the fact that a tank with formally the same T-72 index has a radically different security.
                In addition, if the carrots were used the same hands, as is usually seen from videos or investigations, then all of Lebanon would be dotted with its towers.
            3. +5
              23 February 2021 17: 52
              She still remains one of the most protected. I talked to my friend from Taasia Tsvait, who was directly involved in the repair of tanks damaged in this war. In his opinion, she saved many lives. It certainly doesn't make her unkillable.
              1. +2
                24 February 2021 08: 32
                Quote: ironic
                Of course, this does not make her unkillable.

                The main thing is to give the crew a chance to survive.
        2. +1
          23 February 2021 14: 41
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Do not protect against Javelins, Spikes, and high-speed missiles

          We make KAZ for Armata for protection against tank BOPS, ATGM, including in the upper hemisphere.
          Radars characteristic of the Leopard for KAZ.
          1. 0
            23 February 2021 15: 23
            It is not difficult to protect the upper hemisphere with an additional locator and a KAZ launcher - a matter of money, As for tank BOPS - a very advanced complex, if so
        3. +2
          23 February 2021 15: 36
          Well schaz) from singles yes. But overloading any system can be done easily. The tactics will simply change. There will be three, five launches from different directions and will miss. Yes, and substitute in our time under the RPG it is still necessary to be able to with its that small distance.
          1. +2
            23 February 2021 16: 08
            But overloading any system can be done easily.

            Will the tank stand and wait for an overload? wink
            1. 0
              23 February 2021 16: 09
              Well, let it move) all ATGMs are more or less modern, up to 60 km, the target speed is taken calmly
              1. +1
                23 February 2021 16: 10
                Have you forgotten how to shoot a tank? wink
                Or can't jump into the hollow?
                If he walks like a parade, then yes.
                1. 0
                  23 February 2021 18: 56
                  Finding an ATGM crew is not just difficult, but almost impossible. I understand that everything needs to be taken into account in the complex, but in this case we are talking about a tank-anti-tank destroyer. Chrysanthemums, Cornets D. They can work up to 10. The tank simply does not have the ability to physically see them.
          2. +4
            23 February 2021 16: 11
            Yes, and substitute in our time under the RPG it is still necessary to be able to with its that small distance.

            Depending on the theater of operations and their nature
            But overloading any system can be done easily. The tactics will simply change. There will be three, five launches from different directions and will miss

            If they are synchronous, yes. But it should be borne in mind that the tank does not act alone, in a kind of vacuum "one against a crowd of well-disguised infantry with RPGs and ATGMs" laughing
            1. +1
              23 February 2021 19: 02
              I understand it. But now we are talking about a tank-ATGM and how KAZ will show itself. In the complex, then of course I would take into account dozens of factors) the appearance of UAVs, KAZ, etc. in the first place affects the tactics of the battle, I'm talking about it. It just changes. Perhaps they are being revised and everything is being rebuilt. Knowing that the enemy's tanks have additional protection, this will be taken into account by everyone at once.
              1. +4
                23 February 2021 20: 33
                In any case, a tank with a KAZ is better than without it. Of course, the active protection complex does not guarantee against defeat, but it definitely increases the survival rate of the vehicle and, accordingly, the crew.
      3. 0
        23 February 2021 15: 10
        There are wonderful weapons on both sides of any modern conflict. There is no doubt. In this case, the weapons are compared.

        But besides the performance characteristics, the results of field tests, there is also the tactics of combat use and the preparedness of the crews.

        Let's look at the fact that the Abrams (I'm talking about the sep-v3 version with the same KAZ) and Leopards are not easy cars, to put it mildly. And they will go on our roads, for example. They will not go to the swamps on the march.
        And their location is clear ... Route and speed, quantity. You won't even have to watch from satellites, traffic cameras that fine us will already cope.

        And at the n-th kilometer they are warmly greeted by a battery of MLRS or artillery. Link Su-25 ...
        Even the simplest MLRS ammunition or land mines will carry all electronic attachments off the armor, even if not penetrated. And then, if he survived, a blind tank with a demoralized crew, which was counting on the wunderwaffe, can be finished off or captured.

        And even in the case of an RPG, five grenade launchers can sit in ambush at the ready, deliberately understanding everything and ready for a feat. And there are only two counter-ammunition in the sector ... The tank will not even have time to turn the tower.

        Therefore, for uninvited guests, we will always have a "treat" in the vastness of the Motherland.
        And we will leave bread and salt to our liberating people!

        Happy Holidays everyone! To the defenders of the Fatherland Hurray! HURRAH! HURRAH!
    2. +4
      23 February 2021 14: 12

      Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).

      Oh yes, extremely low reaction ..
      Is Iskander going to hit the tank with Iskander?
      1. +2
        23 February 2021 14: 20
        Oh yes, extremely low reaction ..
        Is Iskander going to hit the tank with Iskander?

        Rather ATGM Attack, Whirlwind
        1. +3
          23 February 2021 14: 48
          Rather ATGM Attack, Whirlwind

          But now, one rocket flies 550 m / s, the other about 600. The 9M133 from Kornet is almost twice as small.
          1. +3
            23 February 2021 15: 01
            But now, one rocket flies 550 m / s, the other about 600. The 9M133 from Kornet is almost twice as small.

            These questions are for the author of the article, why did he stick 1000 there and why he confuses supersonic missiles with hypersonic ones, since 1500m / s is 5400km / h)))
          2. +1
            23 February 2021 16: 43
            Quote: Emil Mamedoff
            But now, one rocket flies 550 m / s, the other about 600. The 9M133 from Kornet is almost twice as small.

            the speed of sound in air is about 340 m / s
            write that the Israeli KAZ has difficulties with the destruction of supersonic ammunition.
            1. +2
              23 February 2021 17: 21
              All KAZ have difficulties with supersonic ammunition.
              1. +2
                23 February 2021 17: 22
                Quote: ironic
                All KAZ have difficulties with supersonic ammunition.

                this is to the question of the inaccuracy of the figure given in the article
                and as a consequence of the erroneous conclusions of some commentators
      2. 0
        23 February 2021 15: 08
        Emil Mamedov - "Chrysanthemum", you can destroy the tank with their KaZ, for a start. ..
        1. +5
          23 February 2021 15: 24
          Quote: Thrifty
          Emil Mamedov - "Chrysanthemum ", you can destroy the tank with their KaZ, for a start ...


          (minus not mine)
    3. +10
      23 February 2021 14: 26
      Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).

      1. Who is it assessed?
      2. Which KAZ has no such questions?

      PS
      Windbreaker and Cornet, no wounded.
      1. -1
        23 February 2021 15: 09
        Professor, the same flight path and the "dad" Kornet - "Competition"! And what if the video shows an Iranian analogue of our ATGM? ??
        1. +1
          23 February 2021 15: 24
          Quote: Thrifty
          Professor, the same flight path and the "dad" Kornet - "Competition"! And what if the video shows an Iranian analogue of our ATGM? ??

          The video shows a native Cornet. This is what the launchers say, and so is the fight.
    4. +3
      23 February 2021 14: 26
      Well, in general, why not.
    5. +17
      23 February 2021 14: 28
      Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).

      How not to put in your spoon of shit. laughing
      In general, the Americans fired at him (Trophy) from everything from which they could and from all angles. The tests were considered successful. I think the Germans wouldn't buy it just like that. In addition, it is constantly being modernized and in a number of people, except for the initiated, its current parameters are precisely known and not, let's say, the initial 2005
    6. 0
      23 February 2021 14: 35
      Che is reminiscent of the 30s, by the way.
    7. -7
      23 February 2021 14: 39
      And the crosses on the tanks are almost the same as on the tanks on the tracks of which the blood and flesh of Jewish and other children IMPRESSED! EPRST how quickly everything is forgotten when banknotes are waved in front of the nose. Shitty time!
      1. +12
        23 February 2021 15: 37
        Where are they trying to finish building the Nord Stream? Or is it different.
        1. -7
          23 February 2021 16: 12
          Other. Gas in houses and tanks in the fields is there a difference? Think, baby, think.
          1. +5
            23 February 2021 17: 30
            Gas is supplied, in particular, to factories where they make not only these tanks, but also other weapons.
    8. -2
      23 February 2021 14: 43
      The manufacturers themselves say that it does not work against fast missiles and, moreover, cannon shells.
      Apparently the Germans are not going to fight against those who have guns.
      1. +3
        23 February 2021 14: 49
        Quote: Jacket in stock
        The manufacturers themselves say that it does not work against fast missiles and, moreover, cannon shells.

        Where do they say that?

        Quote: Jacket in stock
        Apparently the Germans are not going to fight against those who have guns.

        Hmm .. And today, without KAZ, how are they going to fight in your opinion?
      2. -3
        23 February 2021 15: 01
        Against cannon shells, they rely on armor. Which is very powerful in frontal projection. And while our shells are not capable of. Unlike the Abrams.
        1. +2
          23 February 2021 15: 09
          sad Is this what?
          1. +1
            23 February 2021 15: 11
            Yes. Abrams Iraqis poured head-ons even from the Rapier.
            1. +8
              23 February 2021 16: 02
              On your picture is the famous photo of Abrams blown up by a mine, which, because it was impossible to evacuate, was set on fire, but was finished off with a Maverick tactical missile.
              And you fantasize about "Rapier".
              1. -4
                23 February 2021 17: 06
                The Department of Combat Effectiveness of the OVA of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation says something completely different. .good tale about finishing off an exploded tank with a missile from an airplane. And have you ever seen a penetration from a cumulative jet? Well, not at all. And what size should the warhead be to form a jet of this diameter? So just about Maverick - a fantasy.
                1. +3
                  23 February 2021 17: 47
                  The Department of Combat Effectiveness of the OVA of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation says something completely different.
                  Nothing new, though. Blatant incompetence of the management team and stupid planning have long become a tradition. At sea, on land, and in the sky - everywhere Russia goes its own way, and invariably comes to the same result.
                  a good tale about finishing off an exploded tank with a missile from an airplane.
                  these "tales" are confirmed by both sides of the conflict, the Iraqis dragged this abrams across the country on a trailer for propaganda purposes.
                  And have you ever seen a penetration from a cumulative jet?
                  Imagine. And it would not hurt you to ask what the combined armor looks like after being hit by a large-caliber cumulative ammunition.
                  What size should the warhead be to form a jet of this diameter?
                  your department of combat effectiveness does not know the characteristics of the "maverick" ?!
                  So just about Maverick - a fantasy
                  fantasy, this is your "rapier", to which you attached the first picture of the "padded abrams" that came across, disregarding the absurdity of your statement.
                  1. -2
                    23 February 2021 18: 19
                    And it would not hurt you to ask what the combined armor looks like after being hit by a large-caliber cumulative ammunition.

                    The caliber does not matter for the characteristic signs of penetration by the cumulative jet. Diameter only. Here, penetration by kinetic ammunition and just beyond the edge of the combined armor package into homogeneous one. This Abrams was simply out of luck. And they slapped him not only in the forehead.
                    Well, all your other remarks are inept trolling. Improve yourself.
                    1. +2
                      23 February 2021 19: 19
                      Caliber matters, as does the mass of explosives, and the characteristics of the armor, the materials from which it is made.
                      Around the place of penetration, an annular affected zone from the secondary spray of the cumulative jet is clearly visible. A clear sign of defeat by this particular type of ammunition, do not even try to build your crazy conspiracy theories here.
                      The collapsed chassis is a clear sign of a mine explosion.
                      So the question is who is smart and who is stupid.
                      1. -1
                        23 February 2021 19: 27
                        What could be a detonation on a mine if both tracks are intact?
                        There are no diverging inclusions (as if by welding) from the cumulative jet. These are splashes from the rupture of the shell of the projectile fairing and the outer layer of armor.
                        Good luck in the world of your fantasies
                        Sincerely.
                        1. +2
                          23 February 2021 19: 52
                          What could be a detonation on a mine if both tracks are intact?
                          really what a subversion. By the way, you can notice that there is no hit in the cheekbone of the tower yet.
                          There are no diverging inclusions (as if by welding) from the cumulative jet.
                          are you blind
                          This is spray from the rupture of the shell of the projectile fairing and the outer layer of armor.
                          with such knowledge of materiel, the very place is to continue serving at the "Department of Combat Effectiveness of the OVA of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", you will invent schizoid analogs and receive money for it. Is this not a patriot's dream?
                        2. -4
                          23 February 2021 21: 59
                          Distort.
                          First, they sang a song about a mine explosion (which means that the caterpillar must be broken), how they got into a hole brought a photo of a mine explosion under the bottom.
                          Chao Bambino. You shitty troll. Train on cats.
                        3. +1
                          23 February 2021 22: 58
                          If they were already fucked up, and in public, at least they had the courage to admit it, as any decent person would do. But this is not your case, because it is much easier to blame mistakes on others.
                          First they sang a song about a mine explosion
                          I understand that you are still trying to deny the signs of this undermining?
                          then the caterpillar must be broken
                          where should I, who should I? Stop fantasizing! [Quote] [/ quote] I wrote somewhere about a mine of pressure action? - Not. Or maybe you don't consider a high-explosive mine a mine? :)
        2. -2
          23 February 2021 15: 22
          Quote: Old Tanker
          Against cannon shells, they rely on armor. Which is very powerful in frontal projection. And while our shells are not capable of. Unlike the Abrams.

          Well, why do you think KAZ will weaken their frontal armor?

          Quote: Old Tanker
          Yes. Abrams Iraqis poured head-ons even from the Rapier.

          It depends on where it goes. You can drive an old RPG under the tower and ...
          1. +3
            23 February 2021 15: 27
            Well, why do you think KAZ will weaken their frontal armor?


            I did not say such nonsense. Read carefully my answer to Jacket in stock:
            Against cannon shells, they rely on armor.

            Where is the weakening of the frontal armor? Here it is just the opposite, that the frontal armor can withstand a projectile hit.
            You can drive an old RPG under the tower and


            So that this does not happen, KAZ is installed.
            1. +4
              23 February 2021 15: 36
              It was about "Apparently the Germans are not going to fight against those who have guns." So the presence of KAZ does not weaken the frontal armor, respectively, the Germans do not change their plans for the enemy with or without guns.
              1. +2
                23 February 2021 15: 38
                Of course they don't.
    9. -5
      23 February 2021 14: 53
      an epic saga about the thesis of Titus Flavius ​​Vespasian ... "money does not smell" ... the descendants of the victims of the Holocaust take care of the descendants of Nazis of all stripes and SS-sheep ...
      1. 0
        23 February 2021 15: 01
        Nothing personal, just business.
      2. -8
        23 February 2021 15: 12
        Ursula von der Leyen is clearly a Nazi miscarriage in the service of the mattress.
    10. +4
      23 February 2021 14: 56
      Israel is now here on tanks, as I understand it is driving well well
      Germans and Jews .. Everything is very interesting !!! Against whom?
      Or again .. Begins?
      1. -1
        23 February 2021 15: 22
        Jews think they rule. They always thought that they rule and what ..?
        1. +5
          23 February 2021 15: 32
          They think more. Dot. And sometimes they rule. smile
          As in this article.
          1. -2
            23 February 2021 16: 16
            Do not rule. If only because hundreds of thousands of lives are being paid for this delusion. For such "taxiing" hands should be torn off the steering.
    11. -2
      23 February 2021 15: 14
      And why this crap the Germans, if they are not going to fight? recourse
      1. -2
        23 February 2021 15: 43
        They are not going to fight on their own land, but military experts are regularly sent to hot spots.
        + have allied commitments to the Eastern European countries, for which support from a couple of hundred "Leopard-2" will not be superfluous.
        1. +1
          23 February 2021 17: 27
          Do you seriously think that the Germans will drag chestnuts out of the fire for the sake of Eastern European idiots? Well, you made my slippers laugh. For whom - for the Poles, Tribals and Banderlog? Whom did they never consider as people and today do they not consider? fool
          1. 0
            23 February 2021 20: 02
            Eastern European idiots?
            For whom - for the Poles, Tribals?
            I thought Nazism is not welcome here on the site, however, your business. I wonder only if you despise so much, is it really not a shame to plow migrant workers on them ???
            Whom did they never consider as people and today do they not?
            making such sporting statements on behalf of people / peoples whom you have never seen in your life is at least not a sign of a high mind.
            Do you seriously think that the Germans will drag chestnuts out of the fire
            undoubtedly, they will, for this purpose, contain a considerable army, most of which is ready to advance to the aid of the allies. Otherwise, they will have to drag chestnuts from the fire in their country, which the Germans do not want to allow.
            1. -3
              24 February 2021 09: 09
              I thought Nazism is not welcome here on the site, however, your business.

              Firstly, this is not Nazism, I have people of different nationalities in my friends and my wife is a pure-blooded Ukrainian woman.
              This is called - what is hello, that is the answer. Let a smaller hailo blast at Russia. So whoever mooed, and your Lyakhskaya nature was silent.
              Secondly, it was migrant workers who worked in my company, and not me for them, so here it is completely past. This is a ghast rod in Russia, and not vice versa. fool
              And about everything else, learn history and you will know what and how is happening in the world. And you better sit and not twitch, you will be more whole. Nobody is going to attack you, but if you do not try, you probably know where the name came from - bistro.
              It's not for you to teach us, it was the Germans who were spreading rot, but the Russians were saving you, and remember Churchill's words about the hyena of Europe.
    12. +2
      23 February 2021 15: 39
      For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons.
      I would like to see specific examples of "modern anti-tank weapons", which, in the author's opinion, will be too tough for "Trophy".
      including rockets with high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s)
      Are there such anti-tank missiles in nature at all?
      1. +3
        23 February 2021 15: 54
        Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
        I would like to see specific examples of "modern anti-tank weapons", which, in the author's opinion, will be too tough for "Trophy".

        Spike is unlikely to take the same trophy, but the whole secret is that a potential enemy has no spike ...
        Well, BOPS is also too tough, such KAZs that can intercept BOPS, in general, are still only in development.
        And against the barmaley and the armies of the third world, which got a lot of "old" ATGM and ATGM - excellent protection. We also need to quickly implement the latest arena modifications on current cars.
        1. +3
          23 February 2021 16: 13
          KAZ "Trophy" has a modular design with the ability to supplement or reduce (as in the case of the American Abrams) protection sectors. There are also modules that protect the upper hemisphere from roof breakers.
          BOPS is not a rocket. Only a tank can launch a BOPS, and the aviation of developed countries has a short conversation with enemy armored vehicles.
        2. 0
          23 February 2021 18: 51
          Well, BOPS is also too tough, such KAZs that can intercept BOPS, in general, so far only in development

          https://topwar.ru/167241-izrailskij-kaz-iron-fist-nauchili-borotsja-s-podkalibernymi-snarjadami.html
          1. 0
            25 February 2021 21: 23
            Quote: Shimshon
            https://topwar.ru/167241-izrailskij-kaz-iron-fist-nauchili-borotsja-s-podkalibernymi-snarjadami.html

            This is still only development, all this is to run in and out.
            1. -1
              27 February 2021 19: 47
              https://topwar.ru/162865-niderlandy-vybrali-izrailskij-kaz-iron-fist-dlja-zaschity-svoj-bronetehniki.html
              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3464426.html
              1. 0
                27 February 2021 23: 46
                Trophy has been tested in real combat operations, its effectiveness against certain types of anti-tank weapons has been fully confirmed. "Iron fist" has not really fought anywhere. Moreover, you don't need much to intercept a BOPS, a lot is needed to destroy / knock it off course. That is why the "Afghanite" has such hellishly huge charges - they should have enough power for a 90-centimeter steel drin flying at speeds of 1500-1800 m / s (initial speed) to withdraw from the trajectory. The "fist" has a charge for the first time with buckshot, that the BOPS is on the drum, and secondly, it is tiny, so he obviously does not have the strength to do something with the modern BOPS ... But to intercept rocket-propelled grenades and ATGMs is welcome.
                1. -1
                  28 February 2021 10: 44
                  Ahh ... well, everything is clear. The Afghanite fought, Kulachek did not. Stupid Americans and Dutch. You should have come right in with your trump cards, so you wouldn’t waste your time on each other.
                  1. 0
                    28 February 2021 12: 38
                    Quote: Shimshon
                    Ahh ... well, everything is clear. The Afghanite fought, Kulachek did not.

                    Let me ask myself a question - where did I say that the Afghanite fought? Quote ...
                    I said that the trophy fought, and the cam is so far only an export trick in comparison with him. Both the Afghanite and the arena will have to be run in battles for a long time in order to finish thoroughly.
                    And regarding the comparison of the cam with the Afghanite, I drew your attention (which, it seems, you do not pay) to the banal size of the interceptor charges. Namely, that the cam has the size of a cam (much smaller than a conventional RPG grenade), and they are unlikely to be strong enough to knock off the course a huge steel drin flying at great speed. Afganit the same has not only that there are very large charges, but also the interception of the BOPS is carried out at a distance of several tens of meters from the vehicle, so that the BOPS has time to leave the trajectory ...
                    And so yes - I wasted my time on you ...
                    1. -1
                      28 February 2021 13: 36
                      That is why the "Afghanite" has such hellishly huge charges - they should have enough power for a 90-centimeter steel drin flying at speeds of 1500-1800 m / s (initial speed) to withdraw from the trajectory. The "fist" has a charge for the first time with buckshot, which is on the drum for BOPS, and secondly, tiny, so he clearly does not have the strength to do something with modern BOPS.

                      ... I said that the trophy fought, and the cam is so far only an export trick compared to him

                      So we read on.
                      https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3744115.html

                      That is, not only the Dutch and Americans are fools, but also the Israelis themselves, have guessed to install a KAZ, which has no calf, no withdrawal from the trajectory, no hellish huge charges, like a regular Afghan, and its main thing, the fists did not go through the war.
                      And the windbreaker, the same was not checked by the war, and installed. # But this is another
                      1. 0
                        1 March 2021 23: 55
                        I will upset you - you do not know how to read, in the first quote you cited there is NOT a single word that Afghanite was used in war conditions))) there is only a mention that Afghanite is designed specifically to intercept BOPS, but windbreaker, fist and others - they will not cope with the BOPS, which, however, does not prevent them from successfully intercepting ATGMs and ATGMs, for which, in fact, they were developed.

                        Quote: Shimshon
                        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3744115.html

                        Exactly - they put it in for a run-in, since there are a lot of things flying, but here's another bad luck - it's all ATGMs, and in most of it from the old Soviet RPG-7 ... Occasionally, some Hezbollah will receive from the Iranians something like a "cornet ", but fragile rockets and grenades and buckshot will be enough. But there, alas, no one is shooting at Israeli vehicles with BOPS (and thank God! And so that they don't shoot any further!)

                        Quote: Shimshon
                        the Israelis themselves, guessed to install the KAZ, which does not have a calf

                        Against a huge steel drone - not at all, against a rocket / rocket grenade - above the roof)))

                        Quote: Shimshon
                        no withdrawal from the trajectory, no hellish huge charges, like a proper Afghanite

                        Precisely because Afghanite was originally intended to intercept BOPS, and this function is not declared for it solely as an "advertising trick".

                        Quote: Shimshon
                        And the windbreaker, the same was not checked by the war, and installed.

                        Precisely - for running-in, and this running-in was oh, as if not on clock - and the infantry was wounded, and reacted to false targets, so that the windbreaker in its extremely effective modern state is the result of long field work.

                        And all the same advice to you - learn to read, and read carefully, Jews have always been famous for this, I say this to you as a 25% Jew wink
                        1. -1
                          2 March 2021 09: 28
                          https://www.popmech.ru/weapon/545844-amerikanskie-bmp-ne-udalos-osnastit-aktivnoy-zashchitoy/
                          We are watching the video from 1.35. And let's not carry a blizzard unrelated to the topic.
                          I, for you, especially bother with proofs in Russian, and not in English and Hebrew. Let's do it without advice, in Jewish: on business, with proofs, succinctly.
                        2. 0
                          2 March 2021 22: 50
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          And let's not carry a blizzard unrelated to the topic.

                          Here's a great piece of advice for you - stop carrying a blizzard like a real Peskov laughing
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          We are watching the video from 1.35.

                          Firstly, from 1.32, but secondly, what kind of toothpick is this? BOPS for 30 mm? Or 40 mm? There is no supplement data in the "proof", if anything))) An old arena can handle such a BOPS ... But there is a problem - such shells are usually used by very rapid-fire guns, so the question is - what's the point?
                          Moreover, the article says that "modern" KAZs hit enemy ammunition with a "shock wave", only there is a problem - a BOPS 120-125 mm cannon can be hit with a shock wave only from an extremely powerful charge, a fist charge is not capable of this, as well as at the windbreaker ...
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          Let's do it without advice, in Jewish: on business, with proofs, succinctly.

                          So, dear, you have such proofs that it would be better if they did not exist laughing
                        3. 0
                          3 March 2021 12: 38
                          ... This is great advice for you -

                          Again, do you advise me? If you earn more than 260 t rub / month, then try it. If less, then advise your wife and children.
                          ... Firstly, from 1.32, but secondly, what kind of toothpick is this? BOPS for 30 mm? Or 40 mm?

                          Religion does not allow you to find information on bobs of Israel? Search Hotzezan 120mm, and see what a toothpick looks like.
                          Moreover, the article says that "modern" KAZs hit enemy ammunition with a "shock wave", only there is a problem - a BOPS 120-125 mm cannon can be hit with a shock wave only from an extremely powerful charge, a fist charge is not capable of this, as well as at the windbreaker.

                          The windbreaker works in a different way.
                          The manufacturer's website says that the system works according to Bobs. IMI
                          Serious office, with an excellent image and a multi-billion portfolio of orders. The buyers are given a demonstration of the possibilities, and a test. The fact that the company stands behind its own words, and buyers confirm this with their purchases. Everything else is your speculation and subjective opinion.
                          .
                          So, dear, you have such proofs that it would be better if they did not exist

                          Says people without a single proof, the whole discussion of which is based on personal wishes, inappropriate "jokes", and trolling.
                          Albert, you are the one affectionately called kalanfaadi in Arabic. I promise you will not answer anymore, write what you want in response.
                        4. 0
                          3 March 2021 23: 59
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          Again, do you advise me? If you earn more than 260 t rub / month, then try it. If less, then advise your wife and children.

                          I'm wondering how the topic of our discussion relates to earnings? Or are we discussing genetics or teaching biology in secondary and higher educational institutions? Then it would be clear)))
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          Religion does not allow you to find information on bobs of Israel?

                          On "bobs" - no, because "bobs" do not exist in nature))) There are BOPS - Armor-Piercing Feathered Subcaliber Projectiles)))
                          And yes, I am able to distinguish a huge drin, 70 - 90 cm long from a 15 cm toothpick ...
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          The manufacturer's website says that the system works according to Bobs.

                          But not for BOPS))))
                          And even if it works - yes, it can intercept it, only a serious BOPS of a tank gun like the M829A1 or even our old "mango" will be neither cold nor hot from this ...
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          Everything else is your speculation and subjective opinion.

                          Ugums, and that is why the video demonstrates the interception of a toothpick))) Although yes - they did not lie - they really shot down BOPS, the only question is what laughing
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          Says people without a single proof, the whole discussion of which is based on personal wishes, inappropriate "jokes", and trolling.

                          And this, in turn, is written by a person who cites "proofs" that are easily used against himself laughing Only representatives of one "nezalezhnoy" and "samastia" country could discuss so talentedly. laughing
                          Quote: Shimshon
                          Albert, you are the one affectionately called kalanfaadi in Arabic.

                          Well, I won't name you, Shimon, because everything is clear anyway laughing
    13. +2
      23 February 2021 16: 13
      We, too, would not be superfluous to buy KAZ from Israel, since we cannot do it ourselves, at least for several regiments.

      It's a shame, of course, for Russia, which has survived so many conflicts, so far not to have active protection for tanks. Even if not milking everyone, at least a few hundred, but you must have at least some KAZ.

      Moreover, now in Syria it is more than ever relevant for all armored vehicles.
      1. 0
        23 February 2021 22: 15
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        We, too, would not be superfluous to buy KAZ from Israel, since we cannot do it ourselves, at least for several regiments.

        On the T-72B3 version of either the Arena or Drozd


        Afghanite that on the Armata has long been demonstrated to the public
        1. 0
          23 February 2021 22: 39
          I would like to see Afganit's work on the Arbat, otherwise he looks more like a decoration.
          1. -2
            23 February 2021 23: 08
            Armata will be supplied to the troops - you will see.
            And the fact that you so selectively do not want to notice the KAZ on the T-72B3 is very significant.
            But he says a lot on the main tank.
            Your disgruntled grumbling is extremely exhausting.
        2. 0
          25 February 2021 21: 26
          Quote: Flood
          On the T-72B3 version of either the Arena or Drozd

          Arena-E, its latest version, by the way, is said to work in the upper hemisphere too.
          1. +1
            25 February 2021 21: 31
            they even wrote that this version was called Arena-M
            they wrote about Arena-E more when, not one year ago
            but here it seems like the latest modification

            also does not think that this is the reincarnation of Drozd. but in some places it was Drozd-2 who wrote
            1. 0
              27 February 2021 23: 50
              Quote: Flood
              they even wrote that this version was called Arena-M

              Yes, exactly - Arena-M, E - sort of like the same, but export and simpler. She just became known much earlier, because she was shown in Abu Dhabi on the T-72 at one time.

              Quote: Flood
              also does not think that this is the reincarnation of Drozd. but in some places it was Drozd-2 who wrote

              No, "blackbird" is generally a different, initially competing with the "arena" system. Initially, the "thrush" was more primitive than the "arena", perhaps less cumbersome. Now its advanced versions are on the "epoch" modules for the Kurgan and boomerangs (and on the Kurgan, blackbirds generally stand together with the Afghanite).
    14. +3
      23 February 2021 16: 57
      Rockets 1,5 thousand m / s ??? It's almost hypersonic. Who owns the technology for making such an ATGM ?? Palestinians probably?
    15. +4
      23 February 2021 17: 12
      I wonder where the author got questions about efficiency, if he does not know it, just as he does not know that this KAZ was not created against supersonic ATGMs?
    16. +3
      24 February 2021 02: 46
      including rockets with high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s)

      Where were these missiles found? This is the speed of the BOPS when approaching the tank. In reality, the mattress LOSAT had such characteristics, but that one was also turned off due to the astronomical price and no secrecy.
    17. 0
      26 February 2021 15: 56
      The Germans are not stupid and they will not throw money away. It means that the goods are of high quality.

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