Military Review

"This is saving the lives of tank crews": Israel will supply "Windbreaker" complexes for German Leopard 2 tanks

139

Today, the Israeli military department published a message about a contract with German partners on equipping the main military tanks Leopard 2.


The message says that the German tanks will receive Israeli active protection systems (KAZ) "Meil Ruach" ("Windbreaker"). These are KAZ, which in the English version are designated as ASPRO-A or Trophy. They are produced by the Israeli military-industrial concern Rafael.

The statement of Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz is given. According to him, the Vetrovka active protection systems are “saving the lives of tank crews”.

Benny Gantz:

These are advanced systems that demonstrate the capabilities of our military-industrial complex. Germany has shown that it trusts our KAZ.

According to the head of the Israeli military department, the contract underlines "the industrial power of Israel and the importance of cooperation with European partners."

The German military department noted that “they are eagerly awaiting the introduction of the Leopard 2 tanks with the Israeli Vetrovka active protection systems into service with the German Armed Forces.

The Israeli army has repeatedly used the KAZ "Vetrovka" in hostilities. In particular, it is argued that during one of the phases of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, the "Windbreaker" on the "Merkava" tanks made it possible to intercept the ATGM complex "Kornet". It was reported that one of the Israeli soldiers received shrapnel wounds.

Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).
139 comments
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  1. Cowbra
    Cowbra 23 February 2021 14: 08
    -3
    Fig knows him. There are many tales about KAZ, but how much they really help is a question
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 23 February 2021 14: 12
      +14
      This is not a panacea. But this is a chance to remain combat-ready in certain circumstances.
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 23 February 2021 18: 47
        +1
        "This is not a panacea"
        That's right!
        But, at the same time, KAZ is becoming a necessary element of protection.
        And not only tanks, but, for example, air defense systems, etc. from high-precision ammunition, such as drones, "suicide", adjustable art. shells and mines of homing elements of cluster munitions.
        The main thing is that the KAZ elements themselves are reliably protected from bullets and shrapnel, and not offered in the form of "mounted" kits, and even more important is the comprehensive protection of the BTT on the battlefield.
        Those. fire defeat of enemy weapons, effective electronic warfare, various types of camouflage, maneuver and, of course, reliable traditional armor and remote sensing.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 24 February 2021 01: 46
          -9
          We are just ahead of everyone in the KAZ sense.
          "Thrush" when it was still created, and now "Arena" is in service, the "Afganit" is already in the state of the third generation on the "Armata".
          And mattresses and others are only introducing the Jewish "Trophy" generation 1+.
        2. yehat2
          yehat2 24 February 2021 14: 39
          0
          KAZ is a temporary measure.
          The USSR developed active reusable systems of more subtle and accurate countermeasures
          this was one of the reasons why KAZ did not develop particularly.
          Israel somehow got all the USSR's achievements in this area and this is its "power".
          Therefore, he can develop advanced systems, but there is no really serious approach,
          they have no protection from their own spike, practically no protection from the lower hemisphere, and there are a number of other limitations.
          But even the old KAZ T-72 of the latest modifications makes it very resistant to ATGMs.
          I saw how helfires, tou and RPGs of various modifications were shot at them.
          It is difficult to be sure that you will disable the tank after 2-3 hits.
          In addition, there is still no sane and established tactics of interaction between infantry and tanks with KAZ.
          Now the range of the PTO has increased and the tank can cover the infantry only in areas with short direct vision (mountains, urban areas, forest).
          The density and accuracy of anti-personnel fire has also increased greatly, and in general, a big question arose - where is the place of the infantry on the battlefield and what is its role.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 23 February 2021 14: 13
      0
      From the massively used RPGs and ATGMs, they help, like. Do not protect against Javelins, Spikes, and high-speed missiles
      It's just that not everyone has the latter
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 23 February 2021 14: 23
        +6
        Before Turkey entered Syria, it was said that the Leopard is the most protected tank ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 23 February 2021 15: 21
          +5
          And about the Merkava until 2006, the same was said about other tanks. In fact, there is no equipment that cannot be destroyed)).
          1. Thrifty
            Thrifty 23 February 2021 15: 30
            +2
            Krasnodar hi look, fellow countrymen from the forum for your seditious statements that the "chariot" is not an unaffected tank "will eat" lol hi
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 23 February 2021 15: 45
              +3
              Quote: Thrifty
              Krasnodar hi look, fellow countrymen from the forum for your seditious statements that the "chariot" is not an unaffected tank "will eat" lol hi

              I congratulate you and your loved ones on the holiday of the defenders of the Fatherland! hi
              In Israel, everyone serves in the army, so recently arrived immigrants who arrived after the draft age (27 years) and people under 18 years old can seriously discuss the inimitable tanks and morale there. laughing
              1. Thrifty
                Thrifty 23 February 2021 17: 32
                +4
                Krasnodar - and you, and those who served in the Soviet or Russian army in Israel, for whom February 23 is not an empty phrase, I congratulate you on the Holiday! drinks good drinks
                1. ironic
                  ironic 23 February 2021 17: 37
                  +3
                  Thank you, reciprocally. soldier love from ->
              2. ironic
                ironic 23 February 2021 17: 48
                +1
                I will correct. Repatriates. Expats usually don't talk about it and / or at the wrong age.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 23 February 2021 20: 27
                  0
                  Quote: ironic
                  I will correct. Repatriates. Expats usually don't talk about it and / or at the wrong age.

                  Olim - ascended to Zion! fellow Happy holiday to you!
                  1. ironic
                    ironic 23 February 2021 21: 45
                    0
                    Thank you. Hurrah! good
            2. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 23 February 2021 15: 50
              +2
              Quote: Thrifty
              Krasnodar hi look, fellow countrymen from the forum for your seditious statements that the "chariot" is not an unaffected tank "will eat" lol hi

              What is sedition? He's absolutely right.
            3. ironic
              ironic 23 February 2021 17: 14
              0
              You have some stigma in the idea of ​​the adequacy of fellow countrymen.
              1. Thrifty
                Thrifty 23 February 2021 17: 30
                0
                Ironic - you did not understand the irony in my comment! !! hi Although, people are all different, there are those who are glad that at least in something, but better than their opponent! There were similar errors of genetics in life, with a complete lack of logic fool fool
                1. ironic
                  ironic 23 February 2021 17: 36
                  0
                  Sorry, I misunderstood you. drinks
                  1. Thrifty
                    Thrifty 23 February 2021 17: 40
                    +1
                    Ironic drinks - it's good when you can find the truth in a dispute, at least like this, on the forum! If only politicians all over the world solved problems and found optimal solutions by the method of only disputes, and no threats, and no blood. ... hi drinks
                    1. ironic
                      ironic 23 February 2021 17: 44
                      +1
                      To do this, you need to have adequacy on both sides of the dialogue. Where it is, the solution is possible by political means. good
            4. yehat2
              yehat2 25 February 2021 11: 38
              +1
              Quote: Thrifty
              that the "chariot" is not an unbreakable tank

              so the Israelis themselves say that the 4th carrot has an insultingly serious weakness in booking
          2. Professor
            Professor 23 February 2021 15: 40
            0
            Quote: Krasnodar
            And about the Merkava until 2006, the same was said about other tanks. In fact, there is no equipment that cannot be destroyed)).

            And rightly so. It was not about " impenetrable"tank, but itself"protected"Other, less protected tanks (Leopard in Syria and Merkava in Lebanon) behave much worse. We saw this on the T-72 flying turrets.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 23 February 2021 15: 46
              -2
              Quote: Professor
              Quote: Krasnodar
              And about the Merkava until 2006, the same was said about other tanks. In fact, there is no equipment that cannot be destroyed)).

              And rightly so. It was not about " impenetrable"tank, but itself"protected"Other, less protected tanks (Leopard in Syria and Merkava in Lebanon) behave much worse. We saw this on the T-72 flying turrets.

              Yes, that's all clear.
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. ironic
                ironic 23 February 2021 17: 18
                -1
                They fly. I myself saw the first tests at that time, quite straight from the tiniest 4-k. True, 72s were from export versions, but what did not fly there.
              2. 113262a
                113262a 23 February 2021 20: 16
                +1
                Towers do not fly more often on vehicles from MZ than from AZ. Proven by Donbass! And it cannot be otherwise. Because the difference in the conveyor height is 150 mm in total! Only pallets of charges are rising. So don't be stupid! Even in the USSR, when they fired at cars in Kubinka, they were recognized as equivalent!
            3. yehat2
              yehat2 25 February 2021 11: 52
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              on the flying towers T-72.

              tank, which is almost 30 tons lighter and, as a rule, very outdated versions, the armor of which did not save 20 years ago. You "forgot" to add this, as well as the fact that a tank with formally the same T-72 index has a radically different security.
              In addition, if the carrots were used the same hands, as is usually seen from videos or investigations, then all of Lebanon would be dotted with its towers.
          3. ironic
            ironic 23 February 2021 17: 52
            +5
            She still remains one of the most protected. I talked to my friend from Taasia Tsvait, who was directly involved in the repair of tanks damaged in this war. In his opinion, she saved many lives. It certainly doesn't make her unkillable.
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 24 February 2021 08: 32
              +2
              Quote: ironic
              Of course, this does not make her unkillable.

              The main thing is to give the crew a chance to survive.
      2. figwam
        figwam 23 February 2021 14: 41
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Do not protect against Javelins, Spikes, and high-speed missiles

        We make KAZ for Armata for protection against tank BOPS, ATGM, including in the upper hemisphere.
        Radars characteristic of the Leopard for KAZ.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 23 February 2021 15: 23
          0
          It is not difficult to protect the upper hemisphere with an additional locator and a KAZ launcher - a matter of money, As for tank BOPS - a very advanced complex, if so
      3. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 23 February 2021 15: 36
        +2
        Well schaz) from singles yes. But overloading any system can be done easily. The tactics will simply change. There will be three, five launches from different directions and will miss. Yes, and substitute in our time under the RPG it is still necessary to be able to with its that small distance.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 23 February 2021 16: 08
          +2
          But overloading any system can be done easily.

          Will the tank stand and wait for an overload? wink
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 23 February 2021 16: 09
            0
            Well, let it move) all ATGMs are more or less modern, up to 60 km, the target speed is taken calmly
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 23 February 2021 16: 10
              +1
              Have you forgotten how to shoot a tank? wink
              Or can't jump into the hollow?
              If he walks like a parade, then yes.
              1. carstorm 11
                carstorm 11 23 February 2021 18: 56
                0
                Finding an ATGM crew is not just difficult, but almost impossible. I understand that everything needs to be taken into account in the complex, but in this case we are talking about a tank-anti-tank destroyer. Chrysanthemums, Cornets D. They can work up to 10. The tank simply does not have the ability to physically see them.
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 23 February 2021 16: 11
          +4
          Yes, and substitute in our time under the RPG it is still necessary to be able to with its that small distance.

          Depending on the theater of operations and their nature
          But overloading any system can be done easily. The tactics will simply change. There will be three, five launches from different directions and will miss

          If they are synchronous, yes. But it should be borne in mind that the tank does not act alone, in a kind of vacuum "one against a crowd of well-disguised infantry with RPGs and ATGMs" laughing
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 23 February 2021 19: 02
            +1
            I understand it. But now we are talking about a tank-ATGM and how KAZ will show itself. In the complex, then of course I would take into account dozens of factors) the appearance of UAVs, KAZ, etc. in the first place affects the tactics of the battle, I'm talking about it. It just changes. Perhaps they are being revised and everything is being rebuilt. Knowing that the enemy's tanks have additional protection, this will be taken into account by everyone at once.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 23 February 2021 20: 33
              +4
              In any case, a tank with a KAZ is better than without it. Of course, the active protection complex does not guarantee against defeat, but it definitely increases the survival rate of the vehicle and, accordingly, the crew.
    3. RealPilot
      RealPilot 23 February 2021 15: 10
      0
      There are wonderful weapons on both sides of any modern conflict. There is no doubt. In this case, the weapons are compared.

      But besides the performance characteristics, the results of field tests, there is also the tactics of combat use and the preparedness of the crews.

      Let's look at the fact that the Abrams (I'm talking about the sep-v3 version with the same KAZ) and Leopards are not easy cars, to put it mildly. And they will go on our roads, for example. They will not go to the swamps on the march.
      And their location is clear ... Route and speed, quantity. You won't even have to watch from satellites, traffic cameras that fine us will already cope.

      And at the n-th kilometer they are warmly greeted by a battery of MLRS or artillery. Link Su-25 ...
      Even the simplest MLRS ammunition or land mines will carry all electronic attachments off the armor, even if not penetrated. And then, if he survived, a blind tank with a demoralized crew, which was counting on the wunderwaffe, can be finished off or captured.

      And even in the case of an RPG, five grenade launchers can sit in ambush at the ready, deliberately understanding everything and ready for a feat. And there are only two counter-ammunition in the sector ... The tank will not even have time to turn the tower.

      Therefore, for uninvited guests, we will always have a "treat" in the vastness of the Motherland.
      And we will leave bread and salt to our liberating people!

      Happy Holidays everyone! To the defenders of the Fatherland Hurray! HURRAH! HURRAH!
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 43
        -1
        They will not go to the swamps on the march.
        in swamps, armored vehicles do not drive, there are only snow and swamp vehicles moving, or on foot on their own two people are jumping over bumps !? wink
        And even in the case of an RPG, five grenade launchers can sit in ambush at the ready, deliberately understanding everything and ready for a feat. And there are only two counter-ammunition in the sector ... The tank will not even have time to turn the tower.
        And who will miss the group in 5 RPGs, and even at a prepared ambush position and at a distance of opening fire from an RPG, that is, it is called if you slept !? laughing Counter-ammunition can be different and they can be placed not in the sector, on the tower, but on the DBM, which has azimuthal guidance angles of 360 degrees. and there are such versions for a long time, on VO as many as 6 parts, about the development of DBMs, and there these systems in the structure of KAZ are also briefly described!
    4. Intruder
      Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 35
      -1
      how much do they really help - the question
      if the KAZs had zero or near-zero efficiency, no one would bother with their development and testing in general, neither the military nor contract manufacturers! And so, nothing happens with 100% efficiency, but you can argue forever ... wink
  2. Emil mamedoff
    Emil mamedoff 23 February 2021 14: 12
    +4

    Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).

    Oh yes, extremely low reaction ..
    Is Iskander going to hit the tank with Iskander?
    1. loki565
      loki565 23 February 2021 14: 20
      +2
      Oh yes, extremely low reaction ..
      Is Iskander going to hit the tank with Iskander?

      Rather ATGM Attack, Whirlwind
      1. Emil mamedoff
        Emil mamedoff 23 February 2021 14: 48
        +3
        Rather ATGM Attack, Whirlwind

        But now, one rocket flies 550 m / s, the other about 600. The 9M133 from Kornet is almost twice as small.
        1. loki565
          loki565 23 February 2021 15: 01
          +3
          But now, one rocket flies 550 m / s, the other about 600. The 9M133 from Kornet is almost twice as small.

          These questions are for the author of the article, why did he stick 1000 there and why he confuses supersonic missiles with hypersonic ones, since 1500m / s is 5400km / h)))
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 45
            +1
            hypersonic, since 1500m / s is 5400km / h)))
            Hypersonic ATGMs !? An interesting wonder, I overslept something at yesterday's holiday, comrades ??? winked
        2. Flooding
          Flooding 23 February 2021 16: 43
          +1
          Quote: Emil Mamedoff
          But now, one rocket flies 550 m / s, the other about 600. The 9M133 from Kornet is almost twice as small.

          the speed of sound in air is about 340 m / s
          write that the Israeli KAZ has difficulties with the destruction of supersonic ammunition.
          1. ironic
            ironic 23 February 2021 17: 21
            +2
            All KAZ have difficulties with supersonic ammunition.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 23 February 2021 17: 22
              +2
              Quote: ironic
              All KAZ have difficulties with supersonic ammunition.

              this is to the question of the inaccuracy of the figure given in the article
              and as a consequence of the erroneous conclusions of some commentators
    2. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 February 2021 15: 08
      0
      Emil Mamedov - "Chrysanthemum", you can destroy the tank with their KaZ, for a start. ..
      1. Emil mamedoff
        Emil mamedoff 23 February 2021 15: 24
        +5
        Quote: Thrifty
        Emil Mamedov - "Chrysanthemum ", you can destroy the tank with their KaZ, for a start ...


        (minus not mine)
  3. Professor
    Professor 23 February 2021 14: 26
    +10
    Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).

    1. Who is it assessed?
    2. Which KAZ has no such questions?

    PS
    Windbreaker and Cornet, no wounded.
    1. Thrifty
      Thrifty 23 February 2021 15: 09
      -1
      Professor, the same flight path and the "dad" Kornet - "Competition"! And what if the video shows an Iranian analogue of our ATGM? ??
      1. Professor
        Professor 23 February 2021 15: 24
        +1
        Quote: Thrifty
        Professor, the same flight path and the "dad" Kornet - "Competition"! And what if the video shows an Iranian analogue of our ATGM? ??

        The video shows a native Cornet. This is what the launchers say, and so is the fight.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 47
      +1
      Windbreaker and Cornet, no wounded.
      straight rhyme and catchphrase ... hi
  4. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 23 February 2021 14: 26
    +3
    Well, in general, why not.
  5. stone
    stone 23 February 2021 14: 28
    +17
    Today there are questions to KAZ "Vetrovka". For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons, including missiles with a high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s).

    How not to put in your spoon of shit. laughing
    In general, the Americans fired at him (Trophy) from everything from which they could and from all angles. The tests were considered successful. I think the Germans wouldn't buy it just like that. In addition, it is constantly being modernized and in a number of people, except for the initiated, its current parameters are precisely known and not, let's say, the initial 2005
  6. bald
    bald 23 February 2021 14: 35
    0
    Che is reminiscent of the 30s, by the way.
  7. Prisoner
    Prisoner 23 February 2021 14: 39
    -7
    And the crosses on the tanks are almost the same as on the tanks on the tracks of which the blood and flesh of Jewish and other children IMPRESSED! EPRST how quickly everything is forgotten when banknotes are waved in front of the nose. Shitty time!
    1. Alex_You
      Alex_You 23 February 2021 15: 37
      +12
      Where are they trying to finish building the Nord Stream? Or is it different.
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner 23 February 2021 16: 12
        -7
        Other. Gas in houses and tanks in the fields is there a difference? Think, baby, think.
        1. borberd
          borberd 23 February 2021 17: 30
          +5
          Gas is supplied, in particular, to factories where they make not only these tanks, but also other weapons.
  8. Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 23 February 2021 14: 43
    -2
    The manufacturers themselves say that it does not work against fast missiles and, moreover, cannon shells.
    Apparently the Germans are not going to fight against those who have guns.
    1. Professor
      Professor 23 February 2021 14: 49
      +3
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      The manufacturers themselves say that it does not work against fast missiles and, moreover, cannon shells.

      Where do they say that?

      Quote: Jacket in stock
      Apparently the Germans are not going to fight against those who have guns.

      Hmm .. And today, without KAZ, how are they going to fight in your opinion?
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 51
        -2
        Hmm .. And today, without KAZ, how are they going to fight in your opinion?
        it can be seen that the comrade above had a hidden meaning, although I may be mistaken !? Although without KAZs, now only if there are many cheap tanks with many crews for them, you can fight - but not for long (until new crews are born ... winked )!
    2. Old tanker
      Old tanker 23 February 2021 15: 01
      -3
      Against cannon shells, they rely on armor. Which is very powerful in frontal projection. And while our shells are not capable of. Unlike the Abrams.
      1. Prisoner
        Prisoner 23 February 2021 15: 09
        +2
        sad Is this what?
        1. Old tanker
          Old tanker 23 February 2021 15: 11
          +1
          Yes. Abrams Iraqis poured head-ons even from the Rapier.
          1. Nestor Vlakhovski
            Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 16: 02
            +8
            On your picture is the famous photo of Abrams blown up by a mine, which, because it was impossible to evacuate, was set on fire, but was finished off with a Maverick tactical missile.
            And you fantasize about "Rapier".
            1. Old tanker
              Old tanker 23 February 2021 17: 06
              -4
              The Department of Combat Effectiveness of the OVA of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation says something completely different. .good tale about finishing off an exploded tank with a missile from an airplane. And have you ever seen a penetration from a cumulative jet? Well, not at all. And what size should the warhead be to form a jet of this diameter? So just about Maverick - a fantasy.
              1. Nestor Vlakhovski
                Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 17: 47
                +3
                The Department of Combat Effectiveness of the OVA of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation says something completely different.
                Nothing new, though. Blatant incompetence of the management team and stupid planning have long become a tradition. At sea, on land, and in the sky - everywhere Russia goes its own way, and invariably comes to the same result.
                a good tale about finishing off an exploded tank with a missile from an airplane.
                these "tales" are confirmed by both sides of the conflict, the Iraqis dragged this abrams across the country on a trailer for propaganda purposes.
                And have you ever seen a penetration from a cumulative jet?
                Imagine. And it would not hurt you to ask what the combined armor looks like after being hit by a large-caliber cumulative ammunition.
                What size should the warhead be to form a jet of this diameter?
                your department of combat effectiveness does not know the characteristics of the "maverick" ?!
                So just about Maverick - a fantasy
                fantasy, this is your "rapier", to which you attached the first picture of the "padded abrams" that came across, disregarding the absurdity of your statement.
                1. Old tanker
                  Old tanker 23 February 2021 18: 19
                  -2
                  And it would not hurt you to ask what the combined armor looks like after being hit by a large-caliber cumulative ammunition.

                  The caliber does not matter for the characteristic signs of penetration by the cumulative jet. Diameter only. Here, penetration by kinetic ammunition and just beyond the edge of the combined armor package into homogeneous one. This Abrams was simply out of luck. And they slapped him not only in the forehead.
                  Well, all your other remarks are inept trolling. Improve yourself.
                  1. Nestor Vlakhovski
                    Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 19: 19
                    +2
                    Caliber matters, as does the mass of explosives, and the characteristics of the armor, the materials from which it is made.
                    Around the place of penetration, an annular affected zone from the secondary spray of the cumulative jet is clearly visible. A clear sign of defeat by this particular type of ammunition, do not even try to build your crazy conspiracy theories here.
                    The collapsed chassis is a clear sign of a mine explosion.
                    So the question is who is smart and who is stupid.
                    1. Old tanker
                      Old tanker 23 February 2021 19: 27
                      -1
                      What could be a detonation on a mine if both tracks are intact?
                      There are no diverging inclusions (as if by welding) from the cumulative jet. These are splashes from the rupture of the shell of the projectile fairing and the outer layer of armor.
                      Good luck in the world of your fantasies
                      Sincerely.
                      1. Nestor Vlakhovski
                        Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 19: 52
                        +2
                        What could be a detonation on a mine if both tracks are intact?
                        really what a subversion. By the way, you can notice that there is no hit in the cheekbone of the tower yet.
                        There are no diverging inclusions (as if by welding) from the cumulative jet.
                        are you blind
                        This is spray from the rupture of the shell of the projectile fairing and the outer layer of armor.
                        with such knowledge of materiel, the very place is to continue serving at the "Department of Combat Effectiveness of the OVA of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation", you will invent schizoid analogs and receive money for it. Is this not a patriot's dream?
                      2. Old tanker
                        Old tanker 23 February 2021 21: 59
                        -4
                        Distort.
                        First, they sang a song about a mine explosion (which means that the caterpillar must be broken), how they got into a hole brought a photo of a mine explosion under the bottom.
                        Chao Bambino. You shitty troll. Train on cats.
                      3. Nestor Vlakhovski
                        Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 22: 58
                        +1
                        If they were already fucked up, and in public, at least they had the courage to admit it, as any decent person would do. But this is not your case, because it is much easier to blame mistakes on others.
                        First they sang a song about a mine explosion
                        I understand that you are still trying to deny the signs of this undermining?
                        then the caterpillar must be broken
                        where should I, who should I? Stop fantasizing! [Quote] [/ quote] I wrote somewhere about a mine of pressure action? - Not. Or maybe you don't consider a high-explosive mine a mine? :)
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 56
        -2
        Abrams Iraqis poured head-on even from Rapier.
        In what century, in the past or in the early 00's this already ??? Well, most likely, it was these versions of the "Brahms" that were not with the KAZ, or the armor protection did not keep the sub-caliber ones from the MT-12, from the distance at which the shooting was carried out at that time !?
        1. Old tanker
          Old tanker 23 February 2021 22: 18
          -1
          Abrams in the photo was struck at close range. Now I really don't remember which one.
          But the fact is that he was struck in the weakened zone of the frontal projection by a shot of a fire weapon undetected by the crew.
          Leopard-2 does not have such weakened zones on the frontal projection, with the exception of the cannon poppies.
  9. Professor
    Professor 23 February 2021 15: 22
    -2
    Quote: Old Tanker
    Against cannon shells, they rely on armor. Which is very powerful in frontal projection. And while our shells are not capable of. Unlike the Abrams.

    Well, why do you think KAZ will weaken their frontal armor?

    Quote: Old Tanker
    Yes. Abrams Iraqis poured head-ons even from the Rapier.

    It depends on where it goes. You can drive an old RPG under the tower and ...
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 23 February 2021 15: 27
      +3
      Well, why do you think KAZ will weaken their frontal armor?


      I did not say such nonsense. Read carefully my answer to Jacket in stock:
      Against cannon shells, they rely on armor.

      Where is the weakening of the frontal armor? Here it is just the opposite, that the frontal armor can withstand a projectile hit.
      You can drive an old RPG under the tower and


      So that this does not happen, KAZ is installed.
      1. Professor
        Professor 23 February 2021 15: 36
        +4
        It was about "Apparently the Germans are not going to fight against those who have guns." So the presence of KAZ does not weaken the frontal armor, respectively, the Germans do not change their plans for the enemy with or without guns.
        1. Old tanker
          Old tanker 23 February 2021 15: 38
          +2
          Of course they don't.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 23 February 2021 14: 53
    -5
    an epic saga about the thesis of Titus Flavius ​​Vespasian ... "money does not smell" ... the descendants of the victims of the Holocaust take care of the descendants of Nazis of all stripes and SS-sheep ...
    1. Old tanker
      Old tanker 23 February 2021 15: 01
      0
      Nothing personal, just business.
    2. Prisoner
      Prisoner 23 February 2021 15: 12
      -8
      Ursula von der Leyen is clearly a Nazi miscarriage in the service of the mattress.
  • Azef
    Azef 23 February 2021 14: 56
    +4
    Israel is now here on tanks, as I understand it is driving well well
    Germans and Jews .. Everything is very interesting !!! Against whom?
    Or again .. Begins?
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner 23 February 2021 15: 22
      -1
      Jews think they rule. They always thought that they rule and what ..?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 23 February 2021 15: 32
        +5
        They think more. Dot. And sometimes they rule. smile
        As in this article.
        1. Prisoner
          Prisoner 23 February 2021 16: 16
          -2
          Do not rule. If only because hundreds of thousands of lives are being paid for this delusion. For such "taxiing" hands should be torn off the steering.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 23 February 2021 15: 14
    -2
    And why this crap the Germans, if they are not going to fight? recourse
    1. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 15: 43
      -2
      They are not going to fight on their own land, but military experts are regularly sent to hot spots.
      + have allied commitments to the Eastern European countries, for which support from a couple of hundred "Leopard-2" will not be superfluous.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 23 February 2021 17: 27
        +1
        Do you seriously think that the Germans will drag chestnuts out of the fire for the sake of Eastern European idiots? Well, you made my slippers laugh. For whom - for the Poles, Tribals and Banderlog? Whom did they never consider as people and today do they not consider? fool
        1. Nestor Vlakhovski
          Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 20: 02
          0
          Eastern European idiots?
          For whom - for the Poles, Tribals?
          I thought Nazism is not welcome here on the site, however, your business. I wonder only if you despise so much, is it really not a shame to plow migrant workers on them ???
          Whom did they never consider as people and today do they not?
          making such sporting statements on behalf of people / peoples whom you have never seen in your life is at least not a sign of a high mind.
          Do you seriously think that the Germans will drag chestnuts out of the fire
          undoubtedly, they will, for this purpose, contain a considerable army, most of which is ready to advance to the aid of the allies. Otherwise, they will have to drag chestnuts from the fire in their country, which the Germans do not want to allow.
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 24 February 2021 09: 09
            -3
            I thought Nazism is not welcome here on the site, however, your business.

            Firstly, this is not Nazism, I have people of different nationalities in my friends and my wife is a pure-blooded Ukrainian woman.
            This is called - what is hello, that is the answer. Let a smaller hailo blast at Russia. So whoever mooed, and your Lyakhskaya nature was silent.
            Secondly, it was migrant workers who worked in my company, and not me for them, so here it is completely past. This is a ghast rod in Russia, and not vice versa. fool
            And about everything else, learn history and you will know what and how is happening in the world. And you better sit and not twitch, you will be more whole. Nobody is going to attack you, but if you do not try, you probably know where the name came from - bistro.
            It's not for you to teach us, it was the Germans who were spreading rot, but the Russians were saving you, and remember Churchill's words about the hyena of Europe.
  • Nestor Vlakhovski
    Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 15: 39
    +2
    For example, their effectiveness is assessed as extremely low against modern anti-tank weapons.
    I would like to see specific examples of "modern anti-tank weapons", which, in the author's opinion, will be too tough for "Trophy".
    including rockets with high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s)
    Are there such anti-tank missiles in nature at all?
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 23 February 2021 15: 54
      +3
      Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
      I would like to see specific examples of "modern anti-tank weapons", which, in the author's opinion, will be too tough for "Trophy".

      Spike is unlikely to take the same trophy, but the whole secret is that a potential enemy has no spike ...
      Well, BOPS is also too tough, such KAZs that can intercept BOPS, in general, are still only in development.
      And against the barmaley and the armies of the third world, which got a lot of "old" ATGM and ATGM - excellent protection. We also need to quickly implement the latest arena modifications on current cars.
      1. Nestor Vlakhovski
        Nestor Vlakhovski 23 February 2021 16: 13
        +3
        KAZ "Trophy" has a modular design with the ability to supplement or reduce (as in the case of the American Abrams) protection sectors. There are also modules that protect the upper hemisphere from roof breakers.
        BOPS is not a rocket. Only a tank can launch a BOPS, and the aviation of developed countries has a short conversation with enemy armored vehicles.
      2. Shimshon
        Shimshon 23 February 2021 18: 51
        0
        Well, BOPS is also too tough, such KAZs that can intercept BOPS, in general, so far only in development

        https://topwar.ru/167241-izrailskij-kaz-iron-fist-nauchili-borotsja-s-podkalibernymi-snarjadami.html
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 25 February 2021 21: 23
          0
          Quote: Shimshon
          https://topwar.ru/167241-izrailskij-kaz-iron-fist-nauchili-borotsja-s-podkalibernymi-snarjadami.html

          This is still only development, all this is to run in and out.
          1. Shimshon
            Shimshon 27 February 2021 19: 47
            -1
            https://topwar.ru/162865-niderlandy-vybrali-izrailskij-kaz-iron-fist-dlja-zaschity-svoj-bronetehniki.html
            https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3464426.html
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 27 February 2021 23: 46
              0
              Trophy has been tested in real combat operations, its effectiveness against certain types of anti-tank weapons has been fully confirmed. "Iron fist" has not really fought anywhere. Moreover, you don't need much to intercept a BOPS, a lot is needed to destroy / knock it off course. That is why the "Afghanite" has such hellishly huge charges - they should have enough power for a 90-centimeter steel drin flying at speeds of 1500-1800 m / s (initial speed) to withdraw from the trajectory. The "fist" has a charge for the first time with buckshot, that the BOPS is on the drum, and secondly, it is tiny, so he obviously does not have the strength to do something with the modern BOPS ... But to intercept rocket-propelled grenades and ATGMs is welcome.
              1. Shimshon
                Shimshon 28 February 2021 10: 44
                -1
                Ahh ... well, everything is clear. The Afghanite fought, Kulachek did not. Stupid Americans and Dutch. You should have come right in with your trump cards, so you wouldn’t waste your time on each other.
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 28 February 2021 12: 38
                  0
                  Quote: Shimshon
                  Ahh ... well, everything is clear. The Afghanite fought, Kulachek did not.

                  Let me ask myself a question - where did I say that the Afghanite fought? Quote ...
                  I said that the trophy fought, and the cam is so far only an export trick in comparison with him. Both the Afghanite and the arena will have to be run in battles for a long time in order to finish thoroughly.
                  And regarding the comparison of the cam with the Afghanite, I drew your attention (which, it seems, you do not pay) to the banal size of the interceptor charges. Namely, that the cam has the size of a cam (much smaller than a conventional RPG grenade), and they are unlikely to be strong enough to knock off the course a huge steel drin flying at great speed. Afganit the same has not only that there are very large charges, but also the interception of the BOPS is carried out at a distance of several tens of meters from the vehicle, so that the BOPS has time to leave the trajectory ...
                  And so yes - I wasted my time on you ...
                  1. Shimshon
                    Shimshon 28 February 2021 13: 36
                    -1
                    That is why the "Afghanite" has such hellishly huge charges - they should have enough power for a 90-centimeter steel drin flying at speeds of 1500-1800 m / s (initial speed) to withdraw from the trajectory. The "fist" has a charge for the first time with buckshot, which is on the drum for BOPS, and secondly, tiny, so he clearly does not have the strength to do something with modern BOPS.

                    ... I said that the trophy fought, and the cam is so far only an export trick compared to him

                    So we read on.
                    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3744115.html

                    That is, not only the Dutch and Americans are fools, but also the Israelis themselves, have guessed to install a KAZ, which has no calf, no withdrawal from the trajectory, no hellish huge charges, like a regular Afghan, and its main thing, the fists did not go through the war.
                    And the windbreaker, the same was not checked by the war, and installed. # But this is another
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 1 March 2021 23: 55
                      0
                      I will upset you - you do not know how to read, in the first quote you cited there is NOT a single word that Afghanite was used in war conditions))) there is only a mention that Afghanite is designed specifically to intercept BOPS, but windbreaker, fist and others - they will not cope with the BOPS, which, however, does not prevent them from successfully intercepting ATGMs and ATGMs, for which, in fact, they were developed.

                      Quote: Shimshon
                      https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3744115.html

                      Exactly - they put it in for a run-in, since there are a lot of things flying, but here's another bad luck - it's all ATGMs, and in most of it from the old Soviet RPG-7 ... Occasionally, some Hezbollah will receive from the Iranians something like a "cornet ", but fragile rockets and grenades and buckshot will be enough. But there, alas, no one is shooting at Israeli vehicles with BOPS (and thank God! And so that they don't shoot any further!)

                      Quote: Shimshon
                      the Israelis themselves, guessed to install the KAZ, which does not have a calf

                      Against a huge steel drone - not at all, against a rocket / rocket grenade - above the roof)))

                      Quote: Shimshon
                      no withdrawal from the trajectory, no hellish huge charges, like a proper Afghanite

                      Precisely because Afghanite was originally intended to intercept BOPS, and this function is not declared for it solely as an "advertising trick".

                      Quote: Shimshon
                      And the windbreaker, the same was not checked by the war, and installed.

                      Precisely - for running-in, and this running-in was oh, as if not on clock - and the infantry was wounded, and reacted to false targets, so that the windbreaker in its extremely effective modern state is the result of long field work.

                      And all the same advice to you - learn to read, and read carefully, Jews have always been famous for this, I say this to you as a 25% Jew wink
                      1. Shimshon
                        Shimshon 2 March 2021 09: 28
                        -1
                        https://www.popmech.ru/weapon/545844-amerikanskie-bmp-ne-udalos-osnastit-aktivnoy-zashchitoy/
                        We are watching the video from 1.35. And let's not carry a blizzard unrelated to the topic.
                        I, for you, especially bother with proofs in Russian, and not in English and Hebrew. Let's do it without advice, in Jewish: on business, with proofs, succinctly.
                      2. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 2 March 2021 22: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        And let's not carry a blizzard unrelated to the topic.

                        Here's a great piece of advice for you - stop carrying a blizzard like a real Peskov laughing
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        We are watching the video from 1.35.

                        Firstly, from 1.32, but secondly, what kind of toothpick is this? BOPS for 30 mm? Or 40 mm? There is no supplement data in the "proof", if anything))) An old arena can handle such a BOPS ... But there is a problem - such shells are usually used by very rapid-fire guns, so the question is - what's the point?
                        Moreover, the article says that "modern" KAZs hit enemy ammunition with a "shock wave", only there is a problem - a BOPS 120-125 mm cannon can be hit with a shock wave only from an extremely powerful charge, a fist charge is not capable of this, as well as at the windbreaker ...
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        Let's do it without advice, in Jewish: on business, with proofs, succinctly.

                        So, dear, you have such proofs that it would be better if they did not exist laughing
                      3. Shimshon
                        Shimshon 3 March 2021 12: 38
                        0
                        ... This is great advice for you -

                        Again, do you advise me? If you earn more than 260 t rub / month, then try it. If less, then advise your wife and children.
                        ... Firstly, from 1.32, but secondly, what kind of toothpick is this? BOPS for 30 mm? Or 40 mm?

                        Religion does not allow you to find information on bobs of Israel? Search Hotzezan 120mm, and see what a toothpick looks like.
                        Moreover, the article says that "modern" KAZs hit enemy ammunition with a "shock wave", only there is a problem - a BOPS 120-125 mm cannon can be hit with a shock wave only from an extremely powerful charge, a fist charge is not capable of this, as well as at the windbreaker.

                        The windbreaker works in a different way.
                        The manufacturer's website says that the system works according to Bobs. IMI
                        Serious office, with an excellent image and a multi-billion portfolio of orders. The buyers are given a demonstration of the possibilities, and a test. The fact that the company stands behind its own words, and buyers confirm this with their purchases. Everything else is your speculation and subjective opinion.
                        .
                        So, dear, you have such proofs that it would be better if they did not exist

                        Says people without a single proof, the whole discussion of which is based on personal wishes, inappropriate "jokes", and trolling.
                        Albert, you are the one affectionately called kalanfaadi in Arabic. I promise you will not answer anymore, write what you want in response.
                      4. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 3 March 2021 23: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        Again, do you advise me? If you earn more than 260 t rub / month, then try it. If less, then advise your wife and children.

                        I'm wondering how the topic of our discussion relates to earnings? Or are we discussing genetics or teaching biology in secondary and higher educational institutions? Then it would be clear)))
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        Religion does not allow you to find information on bobs of Israel?

                        On "bobs" - no, because "bobs" do not exist in nature))) There are BOPS - Armor-Piercing Feathered Subcaliber Projectiles)))
                        And yes, I am able to distinguish a huge drin, 70 - 90 cm long from a 15 cm toothpick ...
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        The manufacturer's website says that the system works according to Bobs.

                        But not for BOPS))))
                        And even if it works - yes, it can intercept it, only a serious BOPS of a tank gun like the M829A1 or even our old "mango" will be neither cold nor hot from this ...
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        Everything else is your speculation and subjective opinion.

                        Ugums, and that is why the video demonstrates the interception of a toothpick))) Although yes - they did not lie - they really shot down BOPS, the only question is what laughing
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        Says people without a single proof, the whole discussion of which is based on personal wishes, inappropriate "jokes", and trolling.

                        And this, in turn, is written by a person who cites "proofs" that are easily used against himself laughing Only representatives of one "nezalezhnoy" and "samastia" country could discuss so talentedly. laughing
                        Quote: Shimshon
                        Albert, you are the one affectionately called kalanfaadi in Arabic.

                        Well, I won't name you, Shimon, because everything is clear anyway laughing
  • Intruder
    Intruder 23 February 2021 19: 59
    -1
    Are there such anti-tank missiles in nature at all?
    only spherically and in vacuum, so that the aerodynamic drag of the troposphere (near the ground) does not interfere in flight ... laughing wink
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 23 February 2021 16: 13
    +2
    We, too, would not be superfluous to buy KAZ from Israel, since we cannot do it ourselves, at least for several regiments.

    It's a shame, of course, for Russia, which has survived so many conflicts, so far not to have active protection for tanks. Even if not milking everyone, at least a few hundred, but you must have at least some KAZ.

    Moreover, now in Syria it is more than ever relevant for all armored vehicles.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 23 February 2021 20: 03
      -1
      It's a shame, of course, for Russia, which has survived so many conflicts, so far not to have active protection for tanks. Even if not milking everyone, at least a few hundred, but you must have at least some KAZ.
      but in the Russian Federation "big yachts" are bought by respected Russians, and even own the bowels of their beloved country with a lot of industries bought for vouchers .., there is something really proud of patriots !!! And you, all about some KAZs, they are simply not interesting to smart people "on big yachts" ... winked
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 23 February 2021 21: 41
        +1
        Stop talking nonsense about yachts and bowels.

        Only Gazprom and Rosneft pay taxes for 8 trillion rubles, the total federal budget is 20 trillion !!!

        Or maybe you want someone to extract oil for free in Siberia at -50?

        The military budget of Russia is 50 billion dollars.

        Every year, several nuclear submarines worth a billion dollars each, several frigates worth half a billion dollars each and more corvettes, UDCs, trawlers are being laid for the fleet.

        10 coolest yachts in Russia are cheaper than one submarine.

        The military budget of Russia is 2 times more than that of Israel, which was created by KAZ.

        Maybe it's enough to justify your curvature by yachts of bourgeois ?!
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 23 February 2021 22: 21
          +2
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          The military budget of Russia is 2 times more than that of Israel, which was created by KAZ.

          The USSR was the first to create KAZ. Israel is not a pioneer.
          Most likely, the task has not been a priority until now.
          And this is understandable, the army has accumulated too many problems.
          And it is ridiculous to correlate the military budgets of huge Russia with its borders and tasks of containment and small Israel.
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 23 February 2021 22: 38
            +1
            It's funny to the Jews who made KAZ in the desert, but we still haven't put it in the army.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 23 February 2021 23: 12
              -3
              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              It's funny to the Jews who made KAZ in the desert, but we still haven't put it in the army.

              Not Jews, just wizards.
              Do you have any idea what kind of military assistance is being provided to Israel from outside?
              How many off-the-shelf solutions do they use without bothering to design, manufacture, and cost?
              1. borberd
                borberd 23 February 2021 23: 45
                +2
                Quote: Flood
                How many ready-made solutions they use without bothering with their development

                Tell us and then everyone will know. In any case, we produce our own tanks, UAVs, missile defense, air defense, KAZ, radars, military electronics, anti-tank missiles, some of the best in the world. I'm not talking about the fact that all modern F / 16/15/35 are upgraded in Israel for all electronics and weapons. Yes, we get some American weapons as an ally, but we pay a price for all this. And many in Israel are extremely dissatisfied with this and would like to refuse military aid altogether.
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 24 February 2021 00: 03
                  0
                  Quote: borberd
                  Tell me and then everyone will know

                  this is not classified information.
                  everything is freely available.
                  aircraft, helicopters, submarines, etc.
                  and I do not detract from the merits of the Israeli military
                  but I only emphasize that Russia and Israel are not only in incomparable weight categories, but also in incomparable conditions
                  1. andreykolesov123
                    andreykolesov123 24 February 2021 23: 12
                    0
                    Quote: Flood
                    but I only emphasize that Russia and Israel are not only in incomparable weight categories, but also in incomparable conditions

                    breed Jews
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 25 February 2021 00: 43
                      0
                      Quote: andreykolesov123
                      breed Jews

                      trying to make friends
                2. Flooding
                  Flooding 24 February 2021 00: 04
                  -1
                  Quote: borberd
                  Yes, we get some American weapons as an ally, but we pay a certain price for all this.

                  which one?
                  1. Shimshon
                    Shimshon 24 February 2021 09: 17
                    +1
                    They can sell finished products only to countries from a specific list, and not to anyone they want.
                3. Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Ratmir_Ryazan 24 February 2021 13: 38
                  0
                  Who in Israel is not happy with the fact that the United States finances your military budget for $ 3,8 billion annually ?!
            2. Albert1988
              Albert1988 25 February 2021 21: 24
              0
              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              It's funny to the Jews who made KAZ in the desert

              From American components to American money ...
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 24 February 2021 09: 34
          0
          Or maybe you want someone to extract oil for free in Siberia at -50?
          I have lived in Siberia since childhood, so I know how people live there, and what is the standard of living there ... because the Siberian himself ... wink
          Maybe it's enough to justify your curvature by yachts of bourgeois ?!
          an interesting martyrdom sample of a patriot, to switch to personal assessments of a person you don't know !? laughing
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 26 February 2021 14: 55
            +4
            This was not a personal assessment of a specific person, but a description of our common problem.

            Let's look the reigns in the eye, then we will see the problem and maybe solve it.

            And the problem is that we do everything after the hands from food, shoes and clothes to cars and everything else. Therefore, the Russian consumer prefers imported goods.

            And with the military-industrial complex, we are not much better in places, despite the quite decent funding.

            Where is the Russian KAZ? Turkey and Ukraine are already putting KAZ on their tanks, not even talking about Israel, the United States and Germany.

            And this despite the fact that our tanks over the past 25 years had to fight much more than all other tanks in the world !!!

            And we not only did not make a new KAZ, we also lost Soviet developments somewhere.

            That's where the shame is.

            And on a good basis, KAZ will be a salvation for tanks, and even from hitting a tank in the upper hemisphere. There is no problem to put AFAR and an additional launcher for anti-missiles attacking from above, there would be a desire.

            When implementing KAZ, it can be installed both on armored personnel carriers and on booking jeeps, which will greatly increase the survival rate of our soldiers.

            You can even make the KAZ stationary, as small radars are now doing, to protect, for example, NP or bunkers from an enemy missile attack.

            KAZ is a mini-air defense system, its use will be in demand everywhere.

            And how is Russia making progress in this direction, costing ships at billions of dollars apiece? They do not exist and this is a shame and there is no need to justify it with some kind of yachts. These yachts collectively cost less than one submarine, and the owners of these yachts pay taxes and run a business from which they also pay taxes in Russia.

            In the field of KAZ, we lagged behind, as we lagged behind in the use of shock and reconnaissance UAVs.

            And the problem is not money, in fact, most Russian people do not try to do anything. Therefore, neither KAZ nor a car or cheese comes out in our country, as it does not work in Europe.

            It is necessary to work, and not to scold the authorities with the oligarchs in case of any failure, on business and just like that.
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 26 February 2021 17: 50
              +1
              KAZ is a mini-air defense system, its use will be in demand everywhere.
              here with all the limbs, I am "for" !!! Plus, it is necessary to add versatility, both against shells and missiles (ATGMs) with mines and anti-tank grenades, and with a given effectiveness, for confident opposition to all types: shock drones and loitering small fry!
              There is no problem to put AFAR and an additional launcher for anti-missiles attacking from above, there would be a desire.
              and here economic reasons and political will, with all sorts of "effective" governing brains, go hand in hand ... laughing
              In the field of KAZ, we lagged behind, as we lagged behind in the use of shock and reconnaissance UAVs.
              we have a lot, where we have lagged behind over the past thirty years and this "much" is confidently pulling along, already on tiptoe: UAVs, GOS, OMS and all sorts of BIUS !?
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 23 February 2021 22: 15
      0
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      We, too, would not be superfluous to buy KAZ from Israel, since we cannot do it ourselves, at least for several regiments.

      On the T-72B3 version of either the Arena or Drozd


      Afghanite that on the Armata has long been demonstrated to the public
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 23 February 2021 22: 39
        0
        I would like to see Afganit's work on the Arbat, otherwise he looks more like a decoration.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 23 February 2021 23: 08
          -2
          Armata will be supplied to the troops - you will see.
          And the fact that you so selectively do not want to notice the KAZ on the T-72B3 is very significant.
          But he says a lot on the main tank.
          Your disgruntled grumbling is extremely exhausting.
      2. Albert1988
        Albert1988 25 February 2021 21: 26
        0
        Quote: Flood
        On the T-72B3 version of either the Arena or Drozd

        Arena-E, its latest version, by the way, is said to work in the upper hemisphere too.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 25 February 2021 21: 31
          +1
          they even wrote that this version was called Arena-M
          they wrote about Arena-E more when, not one year ago
          but here it seems like the latest modification

          also does not think that this is the reincarnation of Drozd. but in some places it was Drozd-2 who wrote
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 27 February 2021 23: 50
            0
            Quote: Flood
            they even wrote that this version was called Arena-M

            Yes, exactly - Arena-M, E - sort of like the same, but export and simpler. She just became known much earlier, because she was shown in Abu Dhabi on the T-72 at one time.

            Quote: Flood
            also does not think that this is the reincarnation of Drozd. but in some places it was Drozd-2 who wrote

            No, "blackbird" is generally a different, initially competing with the "arena" system. Initially, the "thrush" was more primitive than the "arena", perhaps less cumbersome. Now its advanced versions are on the "epoch" modules for the Kurgan and boomerangs (and on the Kurgan, blackbirds generally stand together with the Afghanite).
  • Roman 57 rus
    Roman 57 rus 23 February 2021 16: 57
    +3
    Rockets 1,5 thousand m / s ??? It's almost hypersonic. Who owns the technology for making such an ATGM ?? Palestinians probably?
  • ironic
    ironic 23 February 2021 17: 12
    +4
    I wonder where the author got questions about efficiency, if he does not know it, just as he does not know that this KAZ was not created against supersonic ATGMs?
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 24 February 2021 02: 46
    +3
    including rockets with high flight speed (about 1,5 thousand m / s)

    Where were these missiles found? This is the speed of the BOPS when approaching the tank. In reality, the mattress LOSAT had such characteristics, but that one was also turned off due to the astronomical price and no secrecy.
  • Michael gutkin
    Michael gutkin 26 February 2021 15: 56
    0
    The Germans are not stupid and they will not throw money away. It means that the goods are of high quality.