Military Review

Beggars and begging in pre-revolutionary Russia

398
Beggars and begging in pre-revolutionary Russia
The beggar and his children


“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven ...
... Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you "
(Matthew 5: 3, 5:42)

Charity in pre-revolutionary Russia. In accordance with the Christian faith, beggars in Russia were required to give, and giving alms was considered a very important form of charity. Christian mercy - this is the postulate that really changed the harsh life of pre-juicy pagans. After all, now everyone who suffered and needed help automatically became a "son of God." How can one refuse alms? Sinful!

Before the adoption of Christianity, the Slavs could not even have imagined that their weak relatives, and even more crippled ones, needed to be fed for nothing. Loss of property or injury left the victim only two ways: death from hunger or life with his fellow countryman as a slave, with the performance of a feasible job for him.

The very weak nursed the children of the master and his chelyadins, entertained the strong and healthy with songs and legends, could guard the master's property. Now, being a beggar has become a godly affair. There were even special royal pilgrims-rogue, whom the king himself washed their feet, who were fed in the royal court and given clothes specially sewn for them by the princesses. Their rank was confirmed by a corresponding letter, which the order of the Grand Palace did not issue to everyone.

However, not all beggars in Russia were so lucky under the same Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich ...

The streets of cities and villages of pre-Petrine Russia were filled with hordes of not only real cripples, but also cunning simulators who shouted at different voices:

"Give, for Christ's sake ..."

and among the trading rows in the bazaars, and on the porches of some temples, and near the rich merchants' choir, where hundreds of them gathered.

Christians - from the word to be Christians, that is, to ask in the name of Christ - this is how such people were called. And all the others, who were more from God, tried not to refuse them handouts and asked the sinners to pray for them.
To the Tsar and the Patriarch, however, they reported:

“During the services, there are ten or more people running around the church with swaddling clothes on their dishes, they collect them for the church, they are insane.

In the church there is turmoil, swearing, screeching and squeaking and stinking barking, fighting to the point of blood, for many bring with them sticks with tips. "

The following information was also brought to light:

“Beggars roam the streets, pretending thieves, begging under the windows of alms, noticing who lives how, so that when that time, it is better to steal.

Little guys are being stolen.

They break their arms and legs and lay them on the streets, sharing the affection of people. "

Patriarch Nikon tried to curb such lewdness, but he succeeded a little.

Then Tsar Peter I took up this problem decisively, issuing a decree according to which it was forbidden to give alms on the streets. Anyone who shoved a copper penny to a man with an outstretched hand was now in for a hefty fine. Well, they beat the beggar with whips and sent him out of the city. A beggar caught a second time was sent to Siberia.

At the same time, the tsar ordered to open many almshouses in the cities, shelters at monasteries and special hospice houses, where the poor were supposed to be fed and watered and gave them shelter.

But in the end, the decree simply ceased to be implemented, because the country did not have any means to fully implement it. Nicholas I in 1834 also issued a decree on the creation of a Committee for the analysis and charity of the poor in the city of St. Petersburg. In accordance with it, the police caught vagrants and beggars, and "assorted" on real invalids and hardened pretenders. The former were at least somehow treated and given a little money, and the latter were sent back to Siberia to dig ore and cut wood.

As a result, there are no fewer beggars on the city streets. But the largest number of beggars in the country was given by the abolition of serfdom in 1861.

In fact, a real disaster has begun in the country.

"Imperial scale".

Because almost a third of the peasants of Russia, who had previously been in the position of real slaves, suddenly found themselves free, and penniless, without property and without care, who fed the master in difficult circumstances.

As a result, many tens of thousands of liberated peasants rushed from the countryside to the cities in search of a better life. And someone in the end there just became very bad, and they died. And someone adapted to a new life and turned begging into a profitable business, which did not require initial capital, but made it possible to live a little worse, and often better than those who earned a living by honest labor.

At the end of the XNUMXth century, any believing Russian, in order to enter the temple of God, had to overcome a real "obstacle course". It was impossible to approach the cathedral, such a dense ring of beggars surrounded it. In addition, they grabbed people by their clothes, threw themselves at their feet, wept, screamed, laughed, demonstrated disgusting sores and deformities, just to get alms.

The mendicant brethren in the churches performed real performances, which Anatoly Bakhtiarov, a Petersburg journalist of the beginning of the XNUMXth century, very vividly described in his book "Inveterate People: Essays from the Life of Perished People":

“… At this time in the narthex of the temple a merchant appeared rather elderly. Seeing him, the beggars instantly quieted down and, groaning and sighing, began to chant, begging for alms. - Give it, for Christ's sake! Do not refuse, benefactor! The husband is dead! Seven children! - Give the blind man, the blind man! - Help the wretched, unfortunate! The merchant thrust a copper into the hand of the "unfortunate widow" and went on ... "

Bakhtiarov describes as one of the beggars, depicting a blind man, says:

"I looked through all my eyes, so as not to miss Vladyka!"

History with Panikovsky, who in the city of Kiev portrayed a blind man - not fiction. So it was, and in this way they were begging for quite healthy and strong men who simply did not want to bother themselves with any work. And why bother, if you are already served?


Street musicians. These at least somehow "worked". Most often this “instrument” had one melody - a pitiful one. They usually sang to her tune: “Marusya got poisoned, they took me to the hospital. Her soul was broken on the path of life ... "

Historians argue to this day about how many beggars there were in pre-revolutionary Russia.

True, it is known for sure that, for example, at the beginning of the 1905th century, namely from 1910 to 14, in Moscow and St. Petersburg alone, the police annually detained 19-XNUMX thousand beggars.

There were entire villages whose inhabitants went to the city to engage in begging. And they were all strong, healthy men, and even with sticks in their hands! They portrayed the blind with the boy as a guide, scaredly wrapped their eyelids, pounded with sticks at the shutters of the three-window outbuildings ... And then, having collected hundreds of rubles (!), They returned to the village and drank there with their wives and children, just to the point of gloom.


A very interesting book about begging in Russia, but, unfortunately, there is nothing in it about the begging of the era of the end of the empire. Published in 1862

And merchants, and even more so our intelligentsia, willingly served the rogues, sincerely believing in their uncomplicated and therefore especially compassionate stories.

And how many sleepless nights thinking about

"The fate of the unfortunate Russian people"

conducted by our writers, poets and philosophers, inspired by the stories of both real and often imaginary cripples and homeless fire victims. But all these lovers of the suffering did not even suspect that among the mendicant brethren there was their own specialization and their very harsh laws.

So the most prestigious among the "professions" of beggars were the so-called "praying mantises" - a kind of elite among the beggars. Getting into the "praying mantises" was not easy. Strangers could simply be mutilated, since the "sick" and "crippled" from the porch did not know pity for their competitors. But they also had their own certain "democracy". That is, if you stood in the morning at the money place near the church, then by vespers, be so kind as to give up your place to someone else.

Not so money, but not even very dusty, was the work of the "gravediggers", that is, those who asked for alms in cemeteries. As soon as the "crucian" appeared there (in the jargon of the cemetery beggars, the deceased was called so), a crowd of beggars immediately rushed towards the inconsolable relatives of the deceased, and, expressing mutual grief and at the same time showing their real and "fake" ulcers and injuries, asked for money to commemorate his soul.

And they were served because they wanted good to the deceased, they wanted him to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But the most interesting thing is that many of those who asked were richer than those who served them.

There were "fire victims" with permanent traces of fire on their faces and clothes. And many believed them. Because, everyone knew that fires happen in Russia all the time. There were "wanderers" wandering from the Holy Places, and aroused religious reverence among the inhabitants. Moreover, the giver usually received a blessing from the "wanderer" and was unspeakably happy with him.


"Well, how can such a bearded old man not serve?"

The “settlers” portrayed the victims of the Stolypin agrarian reform. These wandered around the country in whole crowds and served them simply in order to get rid of them.

But a special caste, the "white bone" among the beggars, were the beggars-writers, who often had even a good education, neatly dressed and looked quite dignified. They did not beg on the streets, but went to the shops, asked the clerk to call the owner and told him a heartbreaking story.

A real gift of fate was a lonely fine-looking lady who found herself in the shop (they were specially looking out for such, and waited until she went inside), who just melted from the stories of such subjects and sometimes gave them very generously.

Information and literature for self-study of the topic:
1.http: //www.chernigov-grad.info/culture/culture3_14.html
2.https: //iq.hse.ru/news/223615886.html
3.https://lenta.ru/news/1999/10/20/poverty/
4.https: //www.mk.ru/economics/2021/02/03/do
5. http://ecsocman.hse.ru/data/131/015/1220/004_Golosenko_27-35.pdf
6.https: //journal.iea.ras.ru/archive/2000s/2007/no3/D
7. Likhodey O. A. Professional begging and vagrancy as a social phenomenon of Russian society - SPb .: Publishing house SPGUVK, 2004
8. Pryzhov IG Beggars in Holy Russia: materials for the history of social and national life in Russia - Ed. M.I.Smirnova, 1862.
9.https: //new-disser.ru/_avtoreferats/01004643869.pdf (very interesting dissertation, it contains references to literature)
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  1. Far B
    Far B 10 March 2021 04: 00
    +28
    Beggars and begging in pre-revolutionary Russia
    How??? Where from ?! Indeed, in pre-revolutionary Russia there was Christian charity and charity, a very important form of which was the giving of alms! My fucking template is torn. I'm going to mend recourse
    1. apro
      apro 10 March 2021 04: 06
      +10
      Quote: Dalny V
      I'm going to mend

      Wake up to read gShpakovsky ... prepare the thread. Darn a lot.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 04: 42
        +14
        Beggars and begging

        It was, is and will be, for
        "Necessity for inventions is cunning."
        With what such vicissitudes of life do people go to the "beggars"?
        The American Dream is to be successful through work. German traditional values ​​presuppose hard work for a decent reward. It is different in Russia. Work to be poor, work even more so that you go from poor to old age to beggars, work until retirement, which you cannot live on, work stupidly and meaninglessly, without hope of prosperity and well-being - this is what is happening today in Russia.
        7,9% of Russians have a salary of 10 rubles. 600% of Russians have a salary of up to 41 thousand rubles. This means tens of millions of people with empty pockets, without savings and savings, it means constantly itching in the brain the thought of where to get money, and at the same time a feeling of hopelessness, because there is nowhere to take it. This means, at best, credit bondage, at worst - a life in poverty, on the verge of hunger, a life on the last bill left to paycheck.

        Here's an interesting observation:

        Maybe it's already in the blood? Maybe it sits in everyone's subconscious: "deceive your neighbor, play on his feelings of pity and compassion," and then ...
        By the way, there are fewer beggars in our city. You can no longer see them near shops, in trolleybuses, near intersections ... And what kind of "not smart" would beg for alms from the poor ...
        But in essence, the situation has not changed:
        We have: oligarchs, beggars, very poor, extremely poor, the most beggars, beggars nowhere further, absolutely beggars, beggars absolutely beggars, beggars, which do not exist.
        1. Uncle lee
          Uncle lee 10 March 2021 05: 12
          +3
          Quote: ROSS 42
          there are fewer beggars.

          We have completely disappeared .... And the gypsies were gone - what to guess - and so everything is known!
          1. GTYCBJYTH2021
            GTYCBJYTH2021 10 March 2021 05: 51
            +17
            Quote: Uncle Lee
            Quote: ROSS 42
            there are fewer beggars.

            We have completely disappeared .... And the gypsies were gone - what to guess - and so everything is known!

            Gypsies were, are and will be, they do not wonder at the stations, they have drugs and through them it goes to the people ...
            1. Civil
              Civil 10 March 2021 07: 17
              +26
              from 1905 to 1910, in Moscow and St. Petersburg alone, the police annually detained 14-19 thousand beggars.

              Where did it come from? Before the revolution, everyone crunched French rolls from morning till night and washed them down with Burgundy! And the Anglo-Saxons with the Germans brazenly suppressed the fatality in Ingushetia and organized a revolution.
              But seriously, the article is the answer to those who claim that the Russian people are now impoverished. As if the propagandist says "this is what poverty must be in order to recognize it officially as poverty," that is, until the Russian people go to churches with outstretched hands, then poverty does not exist.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 March 2021 08: 50
                -29%
                Quote: Civil
                Before the revolution, everyone crunched French rolls from morning till night and washed them down with Burgundy!

                Read than crunched the so-called "declassed" elements on the island of cannibals Nazino on the Ob -in the peaceful 1933. They were captured as a result of sudden mass raids on them on the streets of cities and sent there and other similar places, without trial: from the street to the train and to Siberia.
                1. Vladimir_2U
                  Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 10: 00
                  +25
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Read what the so-called "declassed" elements crunched on the island of cannibals Nazino on the Ob - in the peaceful 1933

                  Another story about "kyavavy boyishvik"? Bring Ol'govich a link, otherwise these miscarriages of yours are to be sought only for wasting time.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 10 March 2021 10: 11
                    -31%
                    Quote: Vladimir_2U
                    Another story about "kyavavy boyishvik"? Bring Ol'govich a link, otherwise these miscarriages of yours are to be sought only for wasting time.

                    it logwhat exactly hits you in the forehead, and not a miscarriage yes

                    And the documents about it atrocities in relation to the unconvicted citizens of the sea-country: you are ashamed not to know them, they are about your achievements.
                    1. Vladimir_2U
                      Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 10: 19
                      +13
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      you are ashamed not to know them, they are about your achievements.

                      There are no references, sadness, trouble.
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                2. Keer
                  Keer 10 March 2021 21: 32
                  -2
                  the formal dictatorship of the proletariat
                  Task: N
                  Find the proletarian among the following characters:
                  Lenin
                  Trotsky,
                  Stalin
                  Yezhov,
                  Vyshinsky,
                  Khrushchev,
                  Brezhnev,
                  Andropov,
                  Chernenko,
                  Gorbachev,
                  Yeltsin laughing
  2. Zug
    Zug 10 March 2021 20: 52
    +9
    And under the kings, everyone ate white bread all year round, but at the resorts, they warmed their sides. Or under the kings there was no hunger. Remind me about the famine of the late 19th century? Hungry year of the beginning of the 20th? But I think it's not interesting, it's not the Bolshevik gebnya that arranged it. blessed hunger- "from the king" it is not a sin to die
  3. Zug
    Zug 10 March 2021 20: 50
    +5
    They drowned me with blood, so far away from me. The blood of landowners 'ghouls, kulaks and podkulachnikov.Enemies of the people and the state.And every scum that has gone hundreds of years on the peasants' humps "to paradise." Because the Russian tsars did not have colonies for this.
  4. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 March 2021 13: 16
    -10%
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    A person who supports capitalists whose hands are covered in blood from heels to crown speaks to us for morality? Seriously?

    What ... "moral", where in the comments? belay

    What .... "capitalists", where?
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    who have blood on their hands from heels to crown


    On the topic of the article: wash, for a start, from the tragedy of Nazino Island on the Ob.
    Let me remind you that many thousands of UNCONDICTED innocent people were thrown onto a naked island there.

    From a letter from Velichko, instructor of the Narym Okrug Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, 1933:
    .
    On the way, especially in barges, people were in an extremely grave condition: poor food, crowding, lack of air, mass reprisals of the most notorious unit over the weakest (despite a strong convoy). As a result, among other things, a high mortality rate, for example, in the first echelon, it reached 35-40 people. in a day.

    ... First of all, up to 40 corpses were taken ashore, the gravediggers were allowed to rest, and then start their work. While the gravediggers were resting the dead began to come to life.
    The island itself turned out to be completely virgin, without any [any] buildings. People were landed in that formin which they were taken in cities and at train stations: in spring clothes, without bedding, many are barefoot.

    At the same time, there were no buildings on the island, no tools, no food crumbs, all the bread came out.

    district commandant's office Tsypkova: "Let go ... Let them graze".

    snow fell, wind rose, and then frost.
    People started to die. They burned alive by the fires while they slept, dying of exhaustion

    ... Soon it began occasionally, and sThen cannibalism on an alarming scale. First in the remote corners of the island, and then where the case turned up.... Here on the island opened real hunt and first of all for people.

    From the memoirs of Theophila Bylina, a resident of the village. Nazino:
    the old woman's legs had their calves cut off. To my question she replied: "It was cut off and fried for me on Death Island." All the flesh on the calf was cut off.

    etc.

    what can justify this?
  5. IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 13: 32
    +8
    As soon as people like you stop making lampshades from people. So let's talk for a wash. And people are still dying from hunger and the most primitive diseases under your beloved capitalism, despite the fact that the achievements of science and technology have long allowed to ensure the normal existence of all mankind. And after the trash that happened with the coronavirus, you would have to sit in silence and not speak at all.
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 March 2021 14: 27
    -10%
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    Once people like you will cease lampshades do.

    belay fool
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    And people are still dying from hunger and the most primitive diseases.

    answer for your man-made island of cannibals Nazino, where thousands of people who were unmarried by anyone died in terrible agony from hunger, cold and cannibalism.

    no one allowed such things to be done with people.

    Are you afraid? are afraid!
  7. IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 14: 51
    +3
    Quote: Olgovich
    Are you afraid? are afraid!

    Have you tried to be treated? They say it helps. Tryndets you are inadequate capitalism adherents. You yourself do not want to bear any responsibility, and moreover, you diligently shift your responsibility onto others. fool
  8. Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 March 2021 15: 12
    -7
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    Have you tried to be treated? helps

    ay-ay-ay, it’s ugly: it didn’t help you, but you advise others. wink lol
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    Tryndets you are inadequate capitalism adherents. You yourself do not want to bear any responsibility, and moreover, you diligently shift your responsibility onto others.

    so are you afraid to answer a simple question?
    Afraid! Ch.d. yes
  9. IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 16: 02
    +5
    You are inadequate. Thtd. fool
  10. DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 18
    0
    Afraid!

    Don't be afraid. Answered by WAM, above.
  11. DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 17
    0
    answer for your man-made island of cannibals

    For the plague blankets, also remember?
    Well, after all, they were "democratic blankets". Oh, the island, no. Difference.
    I also remembered the GULAG for the Japs of the "democrats". S.ka, her memory.
  12. DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 11
    +1
    And people are still dying from hunger and the most primitive diseases under your beloved capitalism, despite the fact that the achievements of science and technology have long allowed to ensure the normal existence of all mankind. And after the trash that happened with the coronavirus, you would have to sit in silence and not speak at all.

    This is not beneficial for those in power. Treat.
    It is necessary not to heal, but to prolong the suffering, the patients' visits to doctors and pharmacies.
    If a person dies quickly, it is unprofitable.
    He must be ill for a long time and his torment must be prolonged by "doctors". That is why they were delivered at the current "pressure".
    Bankers for the extension of "financial torment", doctors for the extension of the bodily, the media for the extension of the moral, etc.
    Not for application, but for prolongation, so to speak, for "prolongation".
    For a permanent effect.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 10 March 2021 15: 35
    -10%
    Quote: Civil
    Before the revolution, everyone crunched French rolls from morning till night and washed them down with Burgundy!

    How many famines were there from 1917 to 1947?
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 03
    +1
    Quote: GTYCBJYTH2021
    Gypsies were, are and will be, they do not wonder at the stations, they have drugs and through them it goes to the people ...

    And since they are permanently pregnant ... then attract them according to the law of the bottom.
    And the "equity holders" will not let them go to waste.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 16: 57
    -2
    Comedians, parodists, Zionists?
    Well, yes, "the color of the nation". Which one?
  • kalibr
    10 March 2021 06: 48
    -1
    That is, you, Oleg, managed to read the entire recommended literature? Well, you and talent, it turns out. It took me a long time ... And you once or twice and the judgment is ready.
    1. apro
      apro 10 March 2021 06: 50
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      And you one or two and the judgment is ready.

      Long-term communication with your work ... left its mark.
      1. kalibr
        10 March 2021 07: 06
        -2
        Quote: apro
        Long-term communication with your work ... left its mark.

        No, Oleg, passed by, because if it were, you would not be in a hurry to write, but would have looked at the recommended works. They were in no hurry to express their profane opinion (not a fire here!), But would try to get the maximum benefit for themselves. But what is not, that is not. One silly pathos.
        1. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 07: 17
          +5
          Quote: kalibr
          but would try to get the maximum benefit for themselves.

          The works of Gilyarovsky and Engelgard at one time. For me did not leave a different point of view on this issue.
          1. kalibr
            10 March 2021 07: 33
            -9
            Quote: apro
            The works of Gilyarovsky and Engelgard at one time. For me did not leave a different point of view on this issue.

            It is foolish to limit yourself to one thing when there is an opportunity to learn something else.
            1. apro
              apro 10 March 2021 07: 37
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              It is foolish to limit yourself to one thing when there is an opportunity to learn something else.

              Find out what - how did the society of that time treat it? Treated it as a normal phenomenon. Tried to radically correct the situation? No. The situation with begging suited everyone.
              1. kalibr
                10 March 2021 07: 59
                -5
                Quote: apro
                The begging situation in ri suited everyone.

                Why write this if you don't know for sure? NOT ALL AND WITH HER FIGHTED. Not effective? Yes. But, she did not suit and fought. That's what's important.
                1. apro
                  apro 10 March 2021 08: 02
                  +5
                  Quote: kalibr
                  But, she did not suit and fought.

                  ???? I believe. as myself. but the market decided so. no one asked to harvest. no one owes you anything. golden words. for centuries.
            2. DrEng527
              DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 43
              -6
              Quote: kalibr
              learn something else.

              what for? it can destroy the stuffy world of his illusions ... wink
          2. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 09: 41
            +9
            Quote: apro
            The works of Gilyarovsky and Engelhardt read at one time did not leave me a different point of view on this issue.

            Let's be honest: not everyone got their hands on Gilyarovsky, but as for Engelhardt, then not everyone can pronounce his last name.
            And the most famous revelations were written by A.M. Bitter: "Childhood", "In People", "My Universities", "At the Bottom", "Mother" ... Read in large quantities and were not considered fairy tales (with the exception of "Tales of Italy").
            The classification of begging and misery in Russia speaks volumes and makes one wonder whether a yard dog was a "luxury" for a peasant.
            I remember that in the village not everyone barked and growled in the yard, but today in the private sector in the city almost everyone has a dog.
            hi
        2. Alex_1973
          Alex_1973 10 March 2021 07: 34
          +14
          kalibr (Vyacheslav)
          They were in no hurry to express their profane opinion
          Well yes all around fool you alone are d'Artagnan ... laughing
          One silly pathos.
          It's more about you, your narcissism has already crossed all reasonable boundaries.
          1. kalibr
            10 March 2021 07: 57
            -19%
            That is, you have already mastered all the recommended literature and have become a specialist in this area? Well, there are talents here at VO ...
          2. Professor
            Professor 10 March 2021 08: 19
            -11%
            Quote: Alex_1973
            kalibr (Vyacheslav)
            They were in no hurry to express their profane opinion
            Well yes all around fool you alone are d'Artagnan ... laughing
            One silly pathos.
            It's more about you, your narcissism has already crossed all reasonable boundaries.

            Duc and do not read the articles of the author. As the saying goes, "pass by." Who makes you? request
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      2. Professor
        Professor 10 March 2021 17: 29
        -2
        Quote: sniperino
        Quote: Professor
        Duc and do not read the articles of the author. As the saying goes, "pass by." Who makes you?
        It's funny. Do you think that such support from the Israelis strengthens the author's anti-Orthodox position? It is like trying to popularize the Hasidic position in Israel with Arab commentaries on what you need to do. Disservice. You should walk in the forest yourself.

        I do not read articles that do not interest me. That's the whole secret. Don't you like the author? Don't read it. Why is this masochism?
        1. sniperino
          sniperino 10 March 2021 17: 44
          -4
          Quote: Professor
          I do not read articles that do not interest me. That's the whole secret. Don't you like the author? Don't read it. Why is this masochism?
          The topic is of interest, and some recognize the author only at the end of the article. Do you follow your own advice? I don't really want to dig into the comments, but you know for sure that there are no articles under which you would accuse the author of bias, incompetence or deliberate lies, instead of stopping reading and silently leaving this thread? Arguing with propagandists is not masochism, but a kind of struggle; even with the author, even with the commentators.
          1. Professor
            Professor 10 March 2021 21: 16
            0
            Quote: sniperino
            The topic is of interest, and some recognize the author only at the end of the article. Do you follow your own advice?

            Is always. For example, I don't read Damantsev's articles.

            Quote: sniperino
            I don't really want to dig into the comments, but you know for sure that there are no articles under which you would accuse the author of bias, incompetence or deliberate lies, instead of stopping reading and silently leaving this thread?

            However, you are engaged in the reservation. I have never accused the author of this article. Moreover, he writes very interestingly and reads "smoothly".

            Quote: sniperino
            Arguing with propagandists is not masochism, but a kind of struggle; even with the author, even with the commentators.

            Retiree? Alone? Lots of free time?
          2. sniperino
            sniperino 11 March 2021 11: 11
            0
            Quote: Professor
            Quote: sniperino
            Arguing with propagandists is not masochism, but a kind of struggle; even with the author, even with the commentators.
            Retiree? Alone? Lots of free time?
            Normally we moved out. As if I got to the employment service. I am studying network technologies of lies. In particular, I am interested in the substitution of semantic frameworks, illogisms in disputes and their role in the processes of group formation and intergroup interaction and in the forum. With content analysis, everything is fine, but for the study of groups there is not enough "trifle": identification of nicknames with the ratings set in the comments to complement the analysis of complementary and reciprocal relationships in the comments
            Quote: sniperino
            Do you know for sure that there are no articles under which you would accuse the author of bias, incompetence or intentional lies, instead of stopping reading and silently leaving this thread?
            Quote: Professor
            However, you are engaged in the reservation.
            A question cannot be considered a slander, but a false accusation of slander can.
          3. Professor
            Professor 11 March 2021 11: 30
            +1
            Quote: sniperino
            Normally we moved out. As if I got to the employment service. I am studying network technologies of lies. In particular, I am interested in the substitution of semantic frameworks, illogisms in disputes and their role in the processes of group formation and intergroup interaction and in the forum. With content analysis, everything is fine, but for the study of groups there is not enough "trifle": identification of nicknames with the ratings set in the comments to complement the analysis of complementary and reciprocal relationships in the comments

            I thought so. Excess free time due to limited family and social ties, as well as lack of employment. wink

            Quote: sniperino
            A question cannot be considered a slander, but a false accusation of slander can.

            Got it. That is, under any accusation or slander it is necessary to put a question mark and then everything is a bureaucrat. hi
          4. sniperino
            sniperino 11 March 2021 11: 44
            0
            Quote: Professor
            Got it. That is, under any accusation or slander it is necessary to put a question mark and then everything is a bureaucrat.
            Quote: sniperino
            Do you know for sure that there are no articles under which you would accuse the author of bias, incompetence or intentional lies, instead of stopping reading and silently leaving this thread?
            Do you define this as an accusation, or as slander? The fact is that in relation to myself, I would not have seen either one or the other, because I myself often accuse authors and commentators of bias, incompetence or deliberate lies, but I take on the burden of proof, and I see continuous accusations in politics. (in technology, you often argue). Is this a manifestation of sadism? In my opinion, yes. hi
          5. Professor
            Professor 11 March 2021 15: 40
            +2
            Quote: sniperino
            and I see continuous accusations in politics

            Well, here's the slander again.
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 10: 49
    +4
    Yes, yes, of course. Ignoring is the surest way to solve the problem.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 March 2021 11: 13
    0
    Quote: Professor
    As the saying goes, "pass by." Who makes you?

    Prof, are there beggars in your country?
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2021 17: 31
      -1
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: Professor
      As the saying goes, "pass by." Who makes you?

      Prof, are there beggars in your country?

      There are not beggars, but poor. There are professional the poor who make good money on their poverty. For example the local MAZ. The state regularly pays him so that he does not become a beggar. And it pays very well.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 27
    +3
    Quote: Professor
    Duc and do not read the articles of the author. As the saying goes, "pass by."

    Here is a naked and deranged woman running right at you ...
    Don't look at her, walk by ... but is she running at you?
    How can you avoid such a sin?
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 24
    +1
    Quote: apro
    Long-term communication with your work ... left its mark.

    After some events in Moscow (it was a long time ago ...) it was fashionable in this fraternity to change surnames.
    In particular, in aviation, in the army (after that) they were not really taken.
    Here, that is my advice. All one, all these "surnames", self-indulgence.
  • Alex_1973
    Alex_1973 10 March 2021 07: 12
    +11
    The story of Panikovsky, who portrayed a blind man in the city of Kiev, is not fiction. So it was, and in this way they were begging for quite healthy and strong men who simply did not want to bother themselves with any work. And why bother, if you are already served?
    I recognize Shpakovsky, it was not life that was so beggarly, these are our people just so lazy.

    It seems like you are literate and should know that spitting at the people from you, the people will rub themselves off, but if the people spit at you, you will drown. You honestly read people like you and the likes of Gozmans, Svanidze and Bilzho, and just like that, I want to put you all together on a barge, take you somewhere deeper, well, then you yourself know.
    1. kalibr
      10 March 2021 07: 34
      -12%
      Quote: Alex_1973
      and just like that, I want to put you all together on a barge, take you somewhere deeper,

      Already taken out, right? And how did it end in the end? Do you want repetition? Yes, some people will drown, but you won't get better. Others will come in their place ... drown them ... New ones will come, which will then drown you.
      1. Alex_1973
        Alex_1973 10 March 2021 07: 43
        +16
        kalibr (Vyacheslav)
        Others will come in their place ... drown them ... new ones will come
        Yes, there is a lot of shit in Russia.
        but you won't get better.
        How it will become.
        1. kalibr
          10 March 2021 07: 48
          -14%
          Quote: Alex_1973
          but you won't get better.
          How it will become.

          What an egoist you are. And others? In any case, new ones will come - they will trample in full! What coat of arms do we have now? And the flag ...
          1. Professor
            Professor 10 March 2021 08: 24
            -7
            Quote: kalibr
            Quote: Alex_1973
            but you won't get better.
            How it will become.

            What an egoist you are. And others? In any case, new ones will come - they will trample in full! What coat of arms do we have now? And the flag ...

            Those who like to "shoot" do not admit the idea that a similar method will be applied to them. "What are we for?" they think. However, there were no exceptions in history that the repressions did not affect the inhabitants who sympathize with the regime and even the most active participants in the repressions.
            In this case, the opponent is not receptive to the incoming information and it is not worth wasting his time. On the other hand, the correspondence is public and many people who think it will read it and draw appropriate conclusions. hi
            1. kalibr
              10 March 2021 09: 20
              -7
              Quote: Professor
              On the other hand, the correspondence is public and many who think it will read it and draw appropriate conclusions.

              +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            2. DED_peer_DED
              DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 32
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              Those who like to "shoot" do not admit the idea that a similar method will be applied to them. "What are we for?" they think.

              A purely Jewish approach.
              There is always something for.
              And me too.
              The difference between the Orthodox and the NO is that the Orthodox always knows "why", and the Jew always blames everyone, chrome himself.
        2. kalibr
          10 March 2021 07: 50
          -9
          Quote: Alex_1973
          Yes, there is a lot of shit in Russia.

          So you belong to fragrant roses? Or to the oaks?
        3. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 14
          -15%
          Quote: Alex_1973
          kalibr (Vyacheslav)
          Others will come in their place ... drown them ... new ones will come
          Yes, there is a lot of shit in Russia.
          but you won't get better.
          How it will become.

          Are you ready for the Civil War? ))
          Free money in a stable currency, weapons, is there where to send a family for a vague 3-5 years?
          Como, Zug, Herzliya, Belavia? ))
          Have you already chosen a school for your children? What second weapon do you prefer for open and built-up areas? laughing
          And if all of the above is not there, then it will be very, very difficult for you in the chaos and extreme conditions that inevitably accompany the establishment of "Fair Power"
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 10 March 2021 11: 11
            +9
            Quote: Krasnodar
            And if all of the above is not,

            And if it does not become easier. When civil strife begins, there are only three ways.
            The first is to get out. Away and for a long time. With a high degree of probability, forever, since you will have to return to another country, where new (or old new) owners will ask you: "And where were you, my dear man, while we shed blood here and drowned enemies in barges?" And to explain where and why it will be oh, how difficult it is for them.
            The second is to hide everything that is and endure, wait until it ends. The most common option. Obey, endure humiliation, requisition, robbery, extortion and wait.
            The third is to join an active struggle on someone's side, or create your own party. Well, everything is clear here - pan or disappear, and "disappeared" happens much more often. Troubles usually ends as soon as those who have chosen the third path are killed by eighty or ninety percent, but "the winner takes it all." Many believe that they will definitely be among the winners and after a quick and easy victory, after washing their hands, they will return to a peaceful life ... Well, well ... You need to get rid of such illusions as soon as possible. First you need to choose the right side, which will eventually be the winner. Then you need to survive during the active phase of the confrontation. Having survived, help your comrades-in-arms in other regions, otherwise their enemies will defeat them and come to you. Then, having killed all your active opponents, it will be necessary to deal with sympathizers. And, finally, it is necessary to survive in the final part, when the winners begin to share the fruits of their victories, that is, not to die at the hands of their own associates ... In short, the chances of surviving on this path are regrettably small.
            The option to sit out, with arms in hand, defending his acquired, and his loved ones, not adhering to anyone, such as independent, does not roll at all. They will come and take everything away, they will rape and kill everyone. You can beat off the first, second, third hitting, constantly increasing the degree of confrontation, but anyway, sooner or later, they will come, and in such an amount that it will be impossible to cope with them. It will be necessary - and tanks with artillery will be brought up, and a nuclear bomb will be thrown. No one will tolerate such an "independent" and, most importantly, not robbed.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 March 2021 11: 53
              -5
              Quite right, if you think about it - they wrote everything correctly. There are still options to make money in the mess, but they are also dangerous and involve further permanent residence outside the country.
          2. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 46
            -4
            Quote: Krasnodar
            "Fair government"

            the question for whom is fair ... they established in Ukraine, now they speak their native language with an eye ... hi
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 March 2021 11: 54
              -4
              Quote: DrEng527
              Quote: Krasnodar
              "Fair government"

              the question for whom is fair ... they established in Ukraine, now they speak their native language with an eye ... hi

              Post-Soviet space, young states, full of insanity hi
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 59
                -3
                Quote: Krasnodar
                young states,

                as if the statehood of Ukraine was created by the Bolsheviks in 1918 - more than a century ... request It is clear in the 1920s and 30s it was simply Ukrainization, but now it is the stage of denial of Russianness ...
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 36
                  0
                  Statehood is young - I'm talking about 91st.
                2. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 38
                  -3
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  Statehood is young - I'm talking about 91st.

                  you still say that the Russian Federation found it in 91g ... hi
                3. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 53
                  -2
                  Statehood as a democratic country with a presidential form of government - in 1991
                4. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 10 March 2021 13: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  with a presidential form of government - in 1991

                  On June 12, 1991, Yeltsin was elected President of the RSFSR,
                  and we have a presidential republic since 12.12.1993 ... wink
                5. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 March 2021 13: 16
                  -3
                  Even younger))
  • sniperino
    sniperino 10 March 2021 13: 05
    -1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Are you ready for the Civil War? ))
    Free money in a stable currency, weapons, is there where to send a family for a vague 3-5 years?
    Only those with dual citizenship are ready for it, but they do not need a weapon, because they will not abandon their family.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 36
    0
    Quote: Krasnodar
    Are you ready for the Civil War? ))

    Are you ready for the Second Coming?
    Do you have anything to answer to the Lord?
    Yes, they won't ask you where to answer. God is not interested in your answer. Into the furnace.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 44
    -3
    Quote: Alex_1973
    Yes, there is a lot of shit in Russia.

    self-critical ... request
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 10: 56
    +6
    Quote: kalibr
    New ones will come, which will drown you later.

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh You can't shoot everyone and tore the vest on his chest. laughing It's funny to watch the historian trying to defend the obsolete OEF and hinder progress. And any moralizing on the part of the defender of a system that puts egoism at the forefront is something in general.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 47
      -6
      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
      obsolete OEF and hinder progress. AND

      where did you see progress? Have you read the history of history? The history of socialism in Russia smells more of regression hi
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 11: 57
        -1
        With this demagogy, go to the forest. To the Varlamov Olezha Makarenko and other liberal-protection trash such as Evgesh Supers, Rogers and Gozmans of their ilk.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 03
          0
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          With this demagogy, go to the forest.

          1) are we really on you? It's humiliating for me to be with you! hi
          2) This is not demagoguery, but reality - they taught the balls to the doctrine of the same faith - that's why they gaff at others, especially those who know how to think! request
      2. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 41
        -2
        where did you see progress?

        Socialism is equality. And, equality, this is God's will. All are equal before God.
        This is almost by FAITH. Much closer to God than now.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 10 March 2021 08: 38
    +4
    Be more modest and do not speak for the whole people.
    You put Oleg Vyacheslavovich on a barge, and who will write articles in VO, Mr. Samsonov and Mrs. Frolova, or maybe you. A gourmet point of view, if I don't like it, then overboard.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 17
      +2
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      Be more modest and do not speak for the whole people.
      You put Oleg Vyacheslavovich on a barge, and who will write articles in VO, Mr. Samsonov and Mrs. Frolova, or maybe you. A gourmet point of view, if I don't like it, then overboard.

      Don't mess with Irina, she's funny - TNT is resting fellow
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 11: 01
      +8
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      A gourmet point of view, if I don't like it, then overboard.

      What can the capitalists not do with the communists? Is it different?
  • Ka-52
    Ka-52 10 March 2021 09: 22
    -2
    It seems like you are literate and should know that spitting on people from you

    what a nonsense! The author took a purely local area in sociology - begging. And he described a certain historical era. Who here spit on the people? In your alternate reality, there were no beggars in RI? Well, if you don't like the author, read Gilyarovsky. Did he spit on the people too? If such a social group as beggars existed, then why throw some at the author who simply described it?
    1. depressant
      depressant 10 March 2021 10: 08
      +6
      Then Tsar Peter I took up this problem decisively, issuing a decree according to which it was forbidden to give alms on the streets. Anyone who shoved a copper penny to a man with an outstretched hand was now in for a hefty fine. Well, they beat the beggar with whips and sent him out of the city. A beggar caught a second time was sent to Siberia.


      And then it turned out that there were not enough servicemen for such radical actions. Shelters for beggars, all kinds of houses for beggar wanderers were opened - nothing helped! Street begging took root as an institution. And now, it turns out, beggars do not need to go out into the streets, because the state submits them to begging. So as not to be translated. We must observe the traditions of the tsarist era!
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 11: 24
    +4
    Quote: Alex_1973
    I recognize Shpakovsky, it was not life that was so beggarly, these are our people just so lazy.

    Our intelligentsia got a shitty little people, oh shitty people. laughing Here they are, intellectuals, all as one handsome men, geniuses, titans on whom Russia rests, and the people are not good anywhere. laughing
    1. DED_peer_DED
      DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 46
      +1
      Armenian Radio is asked the question: "How can one distinguish an intellectual from a hard worker?"
      AR, answers: "A hard worker, first he washes his hands, and then he goes to the toilet.
      An intellectual, first he goes to the toilet, and then he washes his hands. "
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 29
    -1
    Panikovsky, Shpakovsky ...?
    Yes ?
    That, not ...
    Consonance.
  • sniperino
    sniperino 10 March 2021 12: 26
    -5
    Quote: kalibr
    did you manage to read all the recommended literature?
    Revolutionary Pryzhov, MK, Lenta.ru, HSE resources. A competent selection of sources for the disclosure of the topic in the section of the influence of Orthodoxy on Russian history in the course of "scientific atheism". You have read this course to students, admit it.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 16: 55
    -1
    Blessed is he who can 100% distinguish a real beggar from a simulator.
    But, there is one BUT. When I give to a beggar, I give to myself. All.
    The authorities must deal with lawlessness.
    Where are they?
    Here, everything is returning to normal.
    Patriarch Nikon tried to curb such lewdness, but he succeeded a little.

    And somehow he has not been canonized until now. "Accident ...?" (from)
    Then Tsar Peter I took up this problem decisively.

    The one who came instead of him from the railway of Holland, from the "Germans"? Well, this is not surprising.
    Blood drinker and misdirected enemy.
    The point of the article is that the submitter must replace God in himself. Those. the submitter must know in advance who to serve: "This I know, he is a beggar, but this stray, not kosher ..."
    And the author, again Vyacheslav Shpakovsky... Probably a very Orthodox person and very sincere.
    Now, just BELIEVE to this, what does it have to do?
    1. DED_peer_DED
      DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 19: 50
      0

      No wonder.
      :)
      1. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 20: 03
        0
        Israeli democracy takeaway, works.
        You ... do not understand that a person can have other "bonuses" besides the positives for comments.
        Wretched thinking.
        Poor people, God forbid.
  • apro
    apro 10 March 2021 04: 04
    -3
    Now, being a beggar has become a godly affair.

    Russia ... which we lost ... and found again.
    1. DED_peer_DED
      DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 48
      -3
      Quote: apro
      Russia ... which we lost ... and found again.

      1. apro
        apro 10 March 2021 17: 53
        -2
        And what is the Russian government ???
        1. DED_peer_DED
          DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 55
          -4
          This is the Power from God given to the Russian person over other people of the country, by right before God and people.
          1. apro
            apro 10 March 2021 18: 10
            0
            Well said. And God gave power for merit ??? or for only a small amount ??? for what reasons ??? other people. I understand. No one asked ??? and what Russian. By blood. By tribe ???
            1. DED_peer_DED
              DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 18: 14
              -3
              ????????????

              Do you know what it is? I just brought a copy and paste of all your question marks.
              Do you really not understand ?
              The beauty of the signs speaks for itself. Even - screams :)
              God should not ask anyone or anything, let alone wait for someone's "VOTE".
              1. apro
                apro 10 March 2021 18: 18
                +1
                Quote: DED_peer_DED
                God shouldn't ask anyone or anything,

                So they would say. By the will of God. And no one asks the interests of people.
                1. DED_peer_DED
                  DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 18: 27
                  -5
                  Quote: apro
                  So they would say. By the will of God. And no one asks the interests of people.

                  Ah, you are in the place of God, try, ask
                  interests of people
                  .
                  How many of them are there now?
                  Are everyone's thoughts turned to God?
                  Here, too.
                  Why ask them, morons. Everyone.
  • Van 16
    Van 16 10 March 2021 04: 28
    +5
    "conducted by our writers, poets and philosophers"

    And the artists. At one time, Perov's painting "Tea-drinking in Mytishchi" was very much hooked. Just on the topic of the article.
    1. Phil77
      Phil77 10 March 2021 04: 58
      +3
      Ivan, you are damn right! Bravo !!! to you and the author of the article!
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 10 March 2021 05: 52
      +4
      I agree with you. The picture clings.
      1. depressant
        depressant 10 March 2021 10: 11
        +5
        The picture clings.

        Aha!)))) You don't even need to go to a search engine, it's worth it!
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 10 March 2021 11: 56
          +5
          The water in Mytishchi was really nice. Mytishchi water supply - brand.
          And here is what the order from the Crimean War recently learned on a soldier.
    3. Ren
      Ren 10 March 2021 07: 20
      +6
      Quote: Van 16
      And the artists. At one time, Perov's painting "Tea-drinking in Mytishchi" was very much hooked. Just on the topic of the article.

      Tea drinking in Mytishchi. Perov
      1. depressant
        depressant 10 March 2021 10: 18
        +5
        Yes, here it is, this amazing picture, this priest's ryashka ---- ((( fellow )))
        As a child, I remember, she greatly impressed me, because in my life I had never encountered ducklings of this size. Even then I thought: probably a deliberate exaggeration of the artist. And only a couple of years ago I had a chance to see this on the street - only once in real life.
        1. Ren
          Ren 10 March 2021 10: 58
          +6
          Quote: depressant
          because in my life I have never encountered ducklings of this size.

          Admire:


          As you can see from the photo - everything is in order with the "ryashki", everything is according to the canons as it has been for centuries. wink
          1. depressant
            depressant 10 March 2021 11: 17
            +7
            And what is surprising is that young people who go to church services are usually quite handsome, and some are so straightforwardly handsome. But years pass, and now out of nowhere - ryashki, on which, except for squinted cunning and ostentatious complacency, nothing is written. Nothing remains of young handsome men with truth and piety in their eyes. There are probably exceptions. Our local holy father behaves like a thug and speaks the same way. And after all, they go to our church and even donate!
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 48
              +2
              Quote: depressant
              Our local holy father behaves like a thug and speaks the same way. And after all, they go to our church and even donate!

              by relics and oil wink
              1. depressant
                depressant 10 March 2021 11: 57
                +5
                But I don’t go. I would like to. So that there was a small ancient temple with the face of the Lord in some utter wilderness, an old priest so that with a trembling hand in the twilight he would light candles and quietly leave, and I would be left alone with my own conscience in the ringing silence of the temple ...
                1. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 05
                  0
                  Quote: depressant
                  I would be alone with my own conscience

                  and someone bothers you to pray? Or do you go to church to look at priests? Or do you think that you yourself are sinless, since you require it from others? Or have pride fallen into sin? hi
                  1. depressant
                    depressant 10 March 2021 12: 13
                    +3
                    None of what you said))) There is no pride in me, I am sinful beyond measure. You will not be able to repent in front of your home icon. Repentance will not go to God.
                    After all, how is an Orthodox church arranged? Didn't pay attention, didn't you look closely? It is also a resonator with a dome and a cross - a transmitting oscillatory circuit.
                    1. DrEng527
                      DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 17
                      +1
                      Quote: depressant
                      It is also a resonator with a dome and a cross - a transmitting oscillatory circuit.

                      it looks like you have retrained technical disciplines, but you don’t know the basics of Orthodoxy ... hi
                      1. depressant
                        depressant 10 March 2021 13: 04
                        +1
                        Well, so remind me! )))
                      2. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 13: 07
                        +4
                        Quote: depressant
                        Well, so remind me! )))

                        In One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
                      3. depressant
                        depressant 10 March 2021 14: 20
                        +4
                        And what did I write about above? I didn’t say that I wanted to go to a temple of another faith. I said that I would like to be alone in the temple, alone with God, eye to eye. Only. This is possible in chapels, but in our chapel they sell church paraphernalia, and the temple is filled with old women who go to it as to the social security, or, in the present day, to the MFC.
                        But if the question becomes acute, I will be in the ranks of those who will stand around our small village church in order to protect it from trampling in the last terrible hour. Since this is a question of belonging to the Russian nation. Don't ask more of me.
                      4. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 14: 53
                        0
                        Quote: depressant
                        I didn’t say that I wanted to go to a temple of another faith.

                        confusing temple and church?
                        Quote: depressant
                        and the temple is filled with old women,

                        how you do not love people ...
                        Quote: depressant
                        Don't ask more of me.

                        uh, how do you know, let's go ... hi
                      5. depressant
                        depressant 10 March 2021 15: 42
                        +2
                        Dear colleague, well, you have calculated, dismembered and put me on the shelves with my concepts that have gone. I really hope that it became easier for you to live despite the unappetizing procedure done with my carcass and the presence of its fragments on the forum wassat love hi ))))))
                      6. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 16: 13
                        +2
                        Quote: depressant
                        dismembered and laid out on the shelves

                        don't you confuse me with Chikatillo? love
                      7. depressant
                        depressant 10 March 2021 16: 19
                        +3
                        Well, I meant the dismemberment of the mental carcass! tongue )))
                        So, while you are distracted, I am going into a single whole and thinking about which piece to attach to which))))
                      8. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 16: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: depressant
                        So, while you are distracted, I am going into a single whole and thinking about which piece to attach to which))))

                        do you think it will help? disappoint ... repeat
                      9. depressant
                        depressant 10 March 2021 16: 51
                        +2
                        I'm in tears, colleague! crying ))))
                      10. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 17: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: depressant
                        I'm in tears, colleague!

                        I am justified only by the fact that:
                        1) at the age when I no longer believe in women's tears, and I also have 3 daughters wink
                        2) today is already 10 love
          2. BAI
            BAI 10 March 2021 17: 11
            +4
            And what did I write about above? I didn’t say that I wanted to go to a temple of another faith. I said that I would like to be alone in the temple, alone with God, eye to eye.

            We must travel to the poor village temples if they are open. It's still normal there. Everything else is solid business.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 50
    -2
    Quote: Ren
    As you can see from the photo - everything is in order with the "ryashki"

    They forgot to upload their photos and their loved ones.
    For comparison.
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 05: 27
    +17
    without property and without the care of the master who fed in difficult circumstances.
    Again this fairy tale about a caring master. Well, the specially crippled young children by "especially elite" beggars are not mentioned at all. Let me also remind you of Khitrovka, a hotbed of the most vile, childish begging, how much it was "endured" by benefactors, and the Bolsheviks destroyed in less than ten years of their power!
    1. Professor
      Professor 10 March 2021 08: 28
      -16%
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      without property and without the care of the master who fed in difficult circumstances.
      Again this fairy tale about a caring master. Well, specially crippled young children are not mentioned at all by the "especially elite" beggars. Let me also remind you of Khitrovka, a hotbed of the most vile, childish begging, how much it was "endured" by benefactors, and the Bolsheviks destroyed in less than ten years of his power!

      The Bolsheviks were great masters at destroying not the problem itself, but not suffering from it. "Nat chelovekanet problems" - words attributed to the most effective fighter with all problems.
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 09: 53
        +10
        Quote: Professor
        The Bolsheviks were great masters at destroying not the problem itself, but not suffering from it.
        The Bolsheviks did not shyly cover their eyes on the problem.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 10: 04
        +9
        Quote: Professor
        "Nat chelovekanet problems" - words attributed to the most effective fighter with all problems.

        In fact, the phrase was put into circulation and attributed to Stalin by the writer Anatoly Rybakov in the novel Children of the Arbat. They say that the author made fun of the publicists and politicians who, in their speeches, cited this phrase as really Stalinist.
        Why should you "stick" or make allowances for your "difficult" Soviet childhood?
      3. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 10 March 2021 11: 29
        +8
        Yes, yes, of course. The Bolsheviks who pulled the country out of total poverty, who gave people the education of medicine, brought humanity into space all as one scoundrels, and the adherents of capitalism who staged the two biggest massacres in the history of mankind and made cute charms out of Untermen's lampshades.
      4. BAI
        BAI 10 March 2021 17: 16
        +4
        The Bolsheviks were great masters at destroying not the problem itself, but not suffering from it.

        In the USSR, everyone who could work was given the opportunity to work - there was no unemployment. If a person could not work physically - benefits, pensions, at least, did not allow to die of hunger. Therefore, the problem was solved with begging. But there are always people who, in principle, do not want to work. Even just those who like to beg for something. If we take them into account, begging is ineradicable. But the latter is already a disease. There are special clinics for the treatment.
      5. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 17: 52
        -3
        Quote: Professor
        The Bolsheviks were great masters

        Do not remind us of the Dubovs, the names of those very first, kosher "Bolsheviks"?
        1. Professor
          Professor 10 March 2021 21: 33
          +2
          Quote: DED_peer_DED
          Quote: Professor
          The Bolsheviks were great masters

          Do not remind us of the Dubovs, the names of those very first, kosher "Bolsheviks"?

          "Oak" I can recall how the BUND at the II Congress of the RSDLP (1903) opposed Ulyanov and remained in the minority, and the rest in the majority. I can recall how the Bolsheviks later dealt with the Mensheviks.
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 21: 37
            -1
            And, forgive me, with whom did Stalin fight in the 30s?
            And, you tell me about the "beginning-began."
            You don't let me sleep.
            Thank you for your reply.
            1. Professor
              Professor 10 March 2021 21: 41
              0
              Quote: DED_peer_DED
              And, forgive me, with whom did Stalin fight in the 30s?
              And, you tell me about the "beginning-began."
              You don't let me sleep.
              Thank you for your reply.

              Dzhugashvili fought with his people, and the first Bolsheviks were naturally at the Second Congress of the RSDLP (1903).
              1. DED_peer_DED
                DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 21: 43
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                zhugashvili fought with his people

                With Georgians, or what?
                Fought weakly. I confirm.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 10 March 2021 21: 48
                  +1
                  Quote: DED_peer_DED
                  Quote: Professor
                  zhugashvili fought with his people

                  With Georgians, or what?
                  Fought weakly. I confirm.
    2. NDR-791
      NDR-791 10 March 2021 08: 37
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      and the Bolsheviks destroyed in less than ten years of their power!

      The Bolsheviks just made everyone WORK !!! And by any means - if you don't want to voluntarily, work forcibly. Already in the 23rd year the number of ads "required" exceeded the number of urban population. This is from that time: If you cannot - we will teach, if you do not want - we will force. Who wanted to work, who did not want to work for Solovki and also work.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 10: 13
        +7
        Quote: NDR-791
        The Bolsheviks just made everyone WORK !!!

        The same Bolshevik had: "He who does not work, he does not eat" and "From each according to his ability, to each according to his work." These were probably the principles of social justice.
        This is not today's principle: "Millions for our own, minimum wages for the people."
        I always ask myself the question: "Could I take millions, looking at the fact that someone urgently needs money to treat a child?" And, most importantly, to throw money right and left indiscriminately? Not bloodshed ...
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 10 March 2021 10: 20
          0
          Quote: ROSS 42
          These were probably the principles of social justice.

          Not just likely !!! In fact, this is a "principle of socialism", and quite an official one. By the way, now, under our capitalism, the "principle of communism" has sounded interesting - from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. You look at our Forbes list and you can see immediately who lives under communism. wassat
      2. DrEng527
        DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 53
        -6
        Quote: NDR-791
        Already in the 23rd year the number of ads "required" exceeded the number of urban population.

        you are mistaken and do not know the history of Russia! in 1930! request And the enthusiasts in the GULAG worked for 12 hours ...
        1. NDR-791
          NDR-791 10 March 2021 12: 02
          +1
          Quote: DrEng527
          you are mistaken and do not know the history of Russia! in 1930!

          Yes seriously??? Do you remember the years of the first five-year plan? Who has worked since the 28th? And before the five-year plan it was necessary to create a reserve for the industry. So already at 23-24m.
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 15
            -1
            Quote: NDR-791
            Yes seriously???

            absolutely!
            Quote: NDR-791
            And before the five-year plan it was necessary to create a reserve for the industry. So already at 23-24m.

            it is a pity that you are not in reality, but in your own conjectures ... request
            http://www.demoscope.ru/weekly/2010/0417/gazeta020.php
            enlighten
            1. NDR-791
              NDR-791 10 March 2021 12: 26
              +1
              Quote: DrEng527
              enlighten

              You can't even read what you yourself have found ???
              Then I quote your own link for you - "30s
              The Moscow Labor Exchange was closed in 1930... The last job assignment was given to the locksmith Mikhail Shkunov. The Soviet Union became the first country in the world to end unemployment. "

              Can you realize this? It just means that there were ALREADY no ads in 30m !!! So they were all BEFORE !!! Including from the 23rd year.
              Or you also graduated from HSE and "so you see"
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 30
                +1
                Quote: NDR-791
                Or you also graduated from HSE and "so you see"

                I suppose your education is behind the ear, since you are not able to understand what is written wink
                Quote: NDR-791
                So they were all BEFORE !!! Including from the 23rd year.

                I repeat for the victims of the exam, there is no unemployment when there are no unemployed, and the last one in Moscow was in 1930 ...
                I understand that it is difficult to understand ... bully
                1. NDR-791
                  NDR-791 10 March 2021 12: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  I repeat for the victims of the exam, there is no unemployment when there are no unemployed, and the last one in Moscow was in 1930 ...
                  I understand that it is difficult to understand ...

                  Is it difficult to understand that I am not talking about the number of unemployed in the 23rd year, and even more so I never said that they were not in the 23rd year? I said that there was much more work than hands. And whoever wanted to work worked. And those who did not want to, they were forced. Go back to the first post, clarify your understanding or not understanding.
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 10 March 2021 12: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: NDR-791
                    talked about the fact that there was much more work than hands. And whoever wanted to work worked.

                    hmm, it looks like spring has come into law .... if not a secret - why create a labor exchange if jobs are in abundance? wink
                    1. NDR-791
                      NDR-791 10 March 2021 13: 16
                      +1
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      it looks like spring has come into law .... if not a secret - why create a labor exchange if jobs are in abundance?

                      Look, jobs are in abundance, but there is no one to work ... This is now with a more or less developed education.

                      And put the peasant at the machine ... Therefore, the exchange was needed, firstly, to redistribute personnel, and secondly, to inform about vacancies (there was no tyrnet wassat )
                      1. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 13: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: NDR-791
                        Look, jobs are plentiful, but there is no one to work for.

                        are you saying that was the case in the 1920s? wink
                      2. NDR-791
                        NDR-791 10 March 2021 13: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: DrEng527
                        are you saying that was the case in the 1920s?

                        Yes, plus the employment of rural residents in cities. In general, from there, the working hands and replenished the city after all the spreading and civil. In fact, the labor is no longer qualified - restoration, artels, less often cooperatives. NEP is a separate topic
                      3. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 10 March 2021 14: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: NDR-791
                        Yes,

                        why the skilled workers could not get a job and left for the villages? wink
                        Quote: NDR-791
                        In general, it was from there that the workers replenished the city after all the deployment and civil

                        at 23g, the village was already living better than the city, according to VIL request
                        Quote: NDR-791
                        NEP is a separate topic

                        this is the main topic - the country was restored ...
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 10 March 2021 08: 38
    +8
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Well, specially disabled young children are not mentioned at all.

    They are actually mentioned.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 09: 53
      -2
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      Well, specially disabled young children are not mentioned at all.

      They are actually mentioned.
      Poke your nose at me.
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 10 March 2021 10: 24
        +8
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        Poke your nose

        right here:
        “Beggars roam the streets, pretending thieves, begging under the windows of alms, noticing who lives how, so that when that time, it is better to steal.
        Little guys are being stolen.
        They break their arms and legs and lay them on the streets, sharing the affection of people
        ».
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 10: 34
          0
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          Little guys are being stolen.
          They break their arms and legs and lay them on the streets, sharing the affection of people. "

          Exactly! How did you miss it? Although it was described before Peter and before all the "benefactors", therefore I did not notice, I am guilty.
    2. DED_peer_DED
      DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 18: 07
      -4
      Immaculate babies who were sacrificed to Satan are not mentioned.
      Read Oleg Platonov.
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 10 March 2021 08: 46
    -5
    The Bolsheviks destroyed not only Khitrovka ...
    But the problem was not solved.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 09: 54
      +5
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      The Bolsheviks destroyed not only Khitrovka ...
      But the problem was not solved.

      The problem of begging in the USSR ?! Just don't cite the post-war years as an example.
    2. depressant
      depressant 10 March 2021 10: 27
      +4
      Now I made up my mind wassat
      Beggars are now paid unemployment benefits and various subsidies from the state. Therefore, begging grows stronger, develops and flourishes as a state institution. The caring president pays much attention to begging throughout the years of his activity, noting with satisfaction the strength of the institute. And if in his speeches there are occasionally worried notes, then, one must think, only because the poor are still not enough for the complete happiness of the ruling stratum. Few beggars, few beggars, few! And soon the middle class will go to the beggars!
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 10: 36
      +5
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      But the problem was not solved.

      How can I tell you? Have you seen village huts (houses) closed on a stick? Do you have an idea of ​​the entrance doors in five-story buildings made of chipboard with building locks? About "The conscience of a passenger is the best controller", "Take bread in moderation ..." ...
      Once upon a time in ... (for a long time) I spoke with a person who worked in the law enforcement system. He said even then that all these correctional institutions actually do not correct anyone, but are a means of temporarily isolating the population from criminals. According to the principles of morality, a person simply cannot have a third conviction. You cannot spend energy and money on the restoration of an incorrigible person; you shouldn't try to treat a mad dog; you cannot contain criminals convicted under various articles and with repeat offenders.
      Punishment should be perceived as a compulsory measure to correct mistakes and gaps in upbringing. But this process should not be endless (except for life imprisonment).
      And, most importantly, not a single person in the country should have the right of immunity and lack of jurisdiction.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 March 2021 11: 47
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Again this fairy tale about a caring master.

    Yeah, the peasants were freed, only the land remained with the caring master.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 10 March 2021 13: 54
      +2
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      Yeah, the peasants were freed, only the land remained with the caring master.

      The author of the article does not pay attention to such trifles! laughing
  • Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 10 March 2021 05: 35
    -1
    I thank Vyacheslav for an interesting article with the indicated sources ... although the topic is not fully disclosed ... since there is no continuation of the history of begging in the modern history of Russia ... and it is no less interesting than in pre-revolutionary times.
    In my city, I have already thoroughly studied many professional beggars and beggars in their faces ... well dressed, shod, clean and nevertheless they go to the metro, to crossroads (here the lame and legless are more often used) they withdraw money from clients ... obviously organized work of employees to honestly take money from citizens.
    1. depressant
      depressant 10 March 2021 11: 50
      +3
      So we, in a small village, have one that has been begging for a long time, but because of the coronavirus, it does not work out now, it takes care of itself. Once she came up to me and asked for money. I answered her: "Lady, you are dressed better than me, I will not give it to you. Ask that gentleman over there."
      There would be no tradition of street begging, and there would be no beggars on the streets. This is being successfully tackled by cultivating household poverty. Every day they struggle and, through the struggle, they cultivate. In the morning I open Yandex to find out what other measures have been taken to maintain family poverty. And today Yandex, as, indeed, always, did not disappoint me. Now bloggers are obliged to pay taxes on their activities, and on all poles they will put gadgets that fix "fastened - not fastened" with a corresponding fine issued by the system of public awareness.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 05: 50
    +3
    Everyone chooses his own path. True, everyone has a different start.
    I was very interested in the increase in the number of beggars after the abolition of serfdom.
    What has not changed after this event.
    1. apro
      apro 10 March 2021 06: 14
      +1
      Quote: Korsar4
      Everyone chooses his own path.

      This is true on the one hand.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 01
        +7
        It would be interesting to see the share of this stratum in different countries and at different times.

        First associations: "Notre Dame Cathedral".
        The Swedes also have many interesting books on the topic of vagrancy.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 March 2021 07: 07
          +7
          The first thing that comes to mind is "Niels's Journey with Wild Geese"
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 12
            +4
            Harry Martensen and Astrid Lindgren.
            “The Road to the Kingdom of Bells” looked very much to me.
          2. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 10 March 2021 08: 50
            +4
            "The legend of Thiel Ulenspiegel and Lamma Gudzak, their adventures - funny, brave and glorious in Flanders and other countries"
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 10 March 2021 11: 58
              +2
              And, of course, Les Miserables. Hugo touched this topic.
          3. ee2100
            ee2100 12 March 2021 09: 13
            +1
            https://ospreypublishing.com/armies-of-ivan-the-terrible-pb
            Link to Shpakovsky's book, as promised
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 12 March 2021 09: 21
              +1
              Thank you, Alexander!
        2. kalibr
          10 March 2021 07: 08
          +2
          Quote: Korsar4
          First associations: "Notre Dame Cathedral".

          The second "Prince and the Pauper"
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 14
            +7
            And the third is Oliver Twist. Poverty is inseparable from the ways in which resources are obtained in different ways.
            1. apro
              apro 10 March 2021 07: 31
              +1
              Quote: Korsar4
              Poverty is inseparable from the ways in which resources are obtained in different ways.

              With an archaic method of production. Life support.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 34
                +3
                You always want to eat. Whether archaic, modern.

                You don't get to the point where a person chooses a path to the side of the road.
                1. apro
                  apro 10 March 2021 07: 51
                  +2
                  Quote: Korsar4
                  Whether archaic, modern.

                  What speaks about the organization of society. And the level of civilization. If begging was condemned in the Soviet civilizational project. And they tried by all means to get rid of. They tried to give a person the opportunity to provide for himself. To guarantee an acceptable standard of living. then in ri and in modern rf it is considered an acceptable way of life.
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 54
                    +3
                    The Russian empire was at different stages. Peter the First tried to fight begging.

                    The question is - is their share growing after the shocks? Probably yes.
                    And in our country they rarely end.
                    1. apro
                      apro 10 March 2021 07: 58
                      +4
                      Quote: Korsar4
                      And in our country they rarely end.

                      This is not the reason. In the USSR, after the Civil War and the Second World War, millions of orphans and homeless children. And that the Soviet government left this to chance? No, they found the means to solve this problem. Also, millions of disabled people after the war. They received support from the Soviet state. And in the form of material resources. and in the form of labor organization for them.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 10 March 2021 08: 32
                        +3
                        Yes. Stations of young naturalists appeared, for example.
                        Training systems and then workplaces.
                      2. kalibr
                        10 March 2021 09: 25
                        -6
                        Quote: apro
                        in the form of material resources and in the form of labor organization for them.

                        And apartments for all veterans, and accessible slopes on the streets at crossings and in shops, and lifts for disabled people. All this was given to them by the Soviet government!
                      3. apro
                        apro 10 March 2021 09: 41
                        +7
                        Quote: kalibr
                        All this was given to them by the Soviet government!

                        In Soviet times, wheelchair users ... collecting alms. I did not see. And the homeless. I also worked as a locksmith on heating systems. At the time, all the heatwaves were inhabited, and some tenants still went to work.
                      4. kalibr
                        10 March 2021 09: 52
                        -5
                        Quote: apro
                        . collecting alms

                        Can't read? You have not been written about that at all. What a strange way to read and not see it written. And also write that communication with me was good for you. Alas! The feed was not in the horse.
                      5. apro
                        apro 10 March 2021 10: 00
                        0
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Can't read?

                        I am able to understand what you meant.
                      6. kalibr
                        10 March 2021 10: 16
                        -3
                        Quote: apro
                        I can.
                        Then what's the matter? It says something completely different ...
                      7. apro
                        apro 10 March 2021 10: 19
                        -3
                        Quote: kalibr
                        It says something completely different ...

                        I believe you.
                2. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 10 March 2021 10: 43
                  +2
                  Quote: apro
                  In Soviet times, wheelchair users ... not collecting alms ... have not seen

                  The end of the 80s is also the USSR.
          2. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 10 March 2021 08: 53
            +3
            "If not for the revolution, would I have gone to the children of Lieutenant Schmidt, do you think ..."
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 10 March 2021 09: 01
              +4
              Yes. Policeman Nebaba was a good man. He did not offend Panikovsky.
            2. mr.ZinGer
              mr.ZinGer 10 March 2021 09: 25
              +6
              "I met him recently. He is now a music critic."
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 25
        -4
        Quote: apro
        Quote: Korsar4
        Whether archaic, modern.

        What speaks about the organization of society. And the level of civilization. If begging was condemned in the Soviet civilizational project. And they tried by all means to get rid of. They tried to give a person the opportunity to provide for himself. To guarantee an acceptable standard of living. then in ri and in modern rf it is considered an acceptable way of life.

        The Soviet experiment ended in systemic collapse. the population, by and large, was poor by Western standards.
        The question is, what are we focusing on?
        1. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 09: 45
          +7
          Quote: Krasnodar
          the population, by and large, was poor by Western standards.

          By what criteria ???????????????????????????????????????????????????? the Western European millionaire had greater opportunities in comparison with the Soviet worker?
          And why not compare with Latin America. Also capital countries ... or with India. Or Bangladesh.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 03
            -8
            The Western European cleaning lady had more effective medical care than a member of the CPSU Central Committee in a special clinic.
            A worker from the Federal Republic of Germany had greater access to consumer goods, travel abroad and other benefits than the director of a plant in the USSR.
            That is exactly what we then looked at the prosperous areas of American cities and suburbs, at the standard of living in Sweden, France and the Federal Republic of Germany.
            Not to LA and Asia.
          2. apro
            apro 10 March 2021 10: 13
            +6
            Quote: Krasnodar
            The Western European cleaning lady had more effective medical care than a member of the CPSU Central Committee in a special clinic.

            It depends on what kind of insurance she has. And if not, medical loans will solve the problem.
            Quote: Krasnodar
            A worker from the Federal Republic of Germany had greater access to consumer goods, travel abroad and other benefits than the director of a plant in the USSR.

            Only you do not say how he achieved it. Germany is a rich country and the conditions in it are different.
            Quote: Krasnodar
            That is exactly what we then looked at the prosperous areas of American cities and suburbs, at the standard of living in Sweden, France and the Federal Republic of Germany.
            Not to LA and Asia.

            Then there was a chance to reach the Western European level. Today there is a chance to let the countries of the 3 worlds go ahead.
          3. kalibr
            10 March 2021 10: 22
            -11%
            Quote: apro
            Then there was a chance to reach the Western European level.
            So, after all, we didn’t achieve it? It's good that at least it is. By and large, our people were beggars. At the level of Puerto Ricans and Mexicans in the United States in work. Buy? H-e-e-t! Get it - yes! And the pilferers? "You are the host, not the guest, take away at least a nail!" This is how the "national property" was understood. Losses due to absenteeism are huge, 30-40% of those working in the era of scientific and technological revolution engaged in hard physical labor ... Yes, there was no chance to catch up ... Although in missiles and tanks ... Yes, ahead of the rest. And also on ballet ...
          4. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 36
            -6
            For the smelting of pig iron in comparison with 1913 ...))
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 35
          -6
          laughing Unlike the USA, in Germany your health insurance is withdrawn from your salary on a monthly basis. Bismar Health Insurance System. You will be treated in any relevant German clinic, in a difficult case - by any leading professor.
          How did the worker get it? Probably, timely appearance at the workplace and conscientious performance of duties laughing
          The richest country in the world is Russia. Diamonds, oil, gas, coal, fresh water, scenic spots for every taste and color.
          Germany is a rich state, but that is different.
          Under the USSR, there was no such chance. A Chilean or Palestinian student was considered a wealthy person in the Union.
        3. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 10: 48
          +4
          Quote: Krasnodar
          How did the worker get it? Probably, timely appearance at the workplace and conscientious performance of duties

          As far as I understand, you have not heard about strikes, strikes, mass disobedience, or the nomination of socialist demands, unification of the trade unions and parties, and you think it was the speculation of the communists ???
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The richest country in the world is Russia

          It’s a dull statement. It’s only very costly to operate. And so yes it was. Today everything has owners ... but not in the Russian Federation.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Germany is a rich state, but it is different

          Yes, a Russian does not understand. That it is necessary to engage in civilization constantly and without interruption.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Under the USSR, there was no such chance.

          Everyone has their own opinion ... to be the second economy in the world is hard work ... not everyone can do ... but for some reason ... the West considered him the most dangerous threat ... just in economic terms.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          A Chilean or Palestinian student was considered a wealthy person in the Union.

          ?????and...
        4. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 56
          -8
          Well, of course there were strikes, strikes, protest demonstrations and politicians who rose on this wave - a natural process laughing
          Mining big money is always very expensive, in Alaska everything is also very expensive)).
          Economically, the USSR has never been a threat to the West. As a competitor. As a bearer of an ideology capable of undermining the normal functioning of the Western economy - of course.
          And - representatives of societies not most economically developed lived better than Soviet workers.
        5. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 11: 11
          +7
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Of course there were strikes, strikes, protest demonstrations

          Remember ??? and this, as I understand it, is not the reason for the acceptable standard of living of the Germans? It is something like a beer festival ?? strange.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Mining big money is always very expensive, in Alaska everything is also very expensive)

          And nothing that almost the entire Russian Federation is Alaska ???
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Economically, the USSR has never been a threat to the West.

          “The Soviet Union,” Thatcher said, “is a country that poses a serious threat to the Western world. I'm not talking about a military threat. In essence, it did not exist. Our countries are quite well armed, including with atomic weapons.

          I mean the economic threat. Thanks to the planned economy and a peculiar combination of moral and material incentives, the Soviet Union managed to achieve high economic indicators. The growth rate of the gross national product is about twice as high as in our countries. If we take into account the enormous natural resources of the USSR, then with a rational economy, the Soviet Union had quite real opportunities to oust us from world markets.


          Quote: Krasnodar
          And - representatives of societies not most economically developed lived better than Soviet workers.

          And we went to study in the USSR ...
        6. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 11: 22
          -4
          1) One of the reasons is definitely. The people did not allow themselves to be mocked.
          2) It's even good - more fossils in a larger area. laughing Also, the Russian Federation is continuous Finland, Norway, Iceland, Canada, etc.
          3) Key phrase - with a rational economy. Even Thatcher did not take into account the traditional postscripts and beautiful reports. And dependence on the West in the technologies of the chemical industry, wheat and other cereals.
          4) Heh. In the USSR, it was much cheaper to maintain a child than in any Western country.
        7. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 11: 38
          +3
          Quote: Krasnodar
          1) One of the reasons is definitely. The people did not allow themselves to be mocked.

          Wage laborers have forced employers to comply with their conditions. This is basic. Do not be sidetracked. What good behavior is.

          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) It's even good - more fossils in a larger area. Also, the Russian Federation is continuous Finland, Norway, Iceland, Canada, etc.

          Almost only taking into account the size of the population and in what unfavorable climatic conditions it lives, there will not be enough for everyone, all the more so today's profit sharing does not take into account the needs of the population.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          3) Key phrase - with a rational economy. Even Thatcher did not take into account the traditional postscripts and beautiful reports. And dependence on the West in the technologies of the chemical industry, wheat and other cereals.

          Let's not consider Thatcher stupid. And not knowing what to say. All the more for today's rf. Her words about the economic feasibility of 15 million inhabitants. Become relevant.


          Quote: Krasnodar
          4) Heh. In the USSR, it was much cheaper to maintain a child than in any Western country.

          And how did the Reds manage to do this? I once received a scholarship of 104 rubles. And I didn’t feel like a beggar. Maybe there were other priorities ???
        8. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 03
          -5
          1) And you, under "your" conditions, try to work carelessly in Germany, or, God forbid, to steal something at work - they will quickly be fired, and in the second case, the minimum conditional and compensation for the stolen (real, if you do not compensate).
          2) a large number of population, as well as a large territory, is always a plus. You just have to do everything wisely.
          3) I don't think she's stupid, she just didn't live in the USSR lol and about her words about 15 million, can you tell more? In my opinion, this is from the Nazi OST plan
          4) were able to make it so that the $ 100 sold to the Palestinians by the currency dealers exceeded the salary of the director of the plant?
        9. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 12: 25
          +4
          Quote: Krasnodar
          1) And you, under "your" conditions, try to work carelessly in Germany, or, God forbid, to steal something at work - they will quickly be fired, and in the second case, the minimum conditional and compensation for the stolen (real, if you do not compensate).

          Stop ... why sidetrack ??? are we talking about payment and social guarantees? Or corporate discipline ?? what are these jumps for ???
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) a large number of population, as well as a large territory, is always a plus. You just have to do everything wisely.

          ???? and the market is able to provide the population with guaranteed employment ?? and about wisely. As it is not understandable. What did you mean by that ????
          Quote: Krasnodar
          3) I don’t think she’s stupid, she just didn’t live in the USSR, but can you tell more about her words about 15 million? In my opinion, this is from the OST plan of the Nazis

          She did not live. But intelligence reports and an objective analysis of the situation received. The level is much higher. This is from Parshev's book. Why Russia is not America.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          4) were able to make it so that the $ 100 sold to the Palestinians by the currency dealers exceeded the salary of the director of the plant?

          This is a criminal offense. Do you want to live in terms of concepts ???
        10. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 42
          -5
          1) Ok, let's not jump and be specific.
          Thanks to the struggle for their rights, including strikes, strikes, etc. a worker from the Federal Republic of Germany lived much better than the director of a plant in the USSR.
          2) Received, but without subtleties
          3) I do not want anything - I state a fact lol
          4) Market - we are all guaranteed to die, the rest is not guaranteed. laughing
          More population means more workers and consumers.
          Cleverly - in the USSR, most of the things related to economic development were done stupidly, in the FRG it was clever.
          That's it.
        11. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 13: 12
          +3
          Quote: Krasnodar
          1) Ok, let's not jump and be specific.
          Thanks to the struggle for their rights, including strikes, strikes, etc. a worker from the Federal Republic of Germany lived much better than the director of a plant in the USSR.

          Well, that's nice. The director in the USSR. The same employee as everyone else at the plant. And received. As much as it should be according to the standard tariff. Which was developed taking into account the economic possibilities of the USSR at that time. This is the second except for the direct salary. the worker received from public consumption funds. this is both living and regulation of prices for a number of goods and services. education and medicine. in the third. living and the ability to consume are somewhat different things. for the USSR it was an acceptable level. but somewhat worse than that of the Germans. but and the gap was narrowing.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) Received, but without subtleties

          At her level. Special attention to the subtleties. The baroness aunt was well-lived and purposeful. She cannot be discerned. Her statements are very interesting.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          3) I do not want anything - I state a fact

          Then I will also state that a person living in violation of the law always lives better than a law-abiding citizen.
        12. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 13: 22
          -5
          1) As for the gap, it was getting smaller - it's hard for me to say. In 1972, the working people of the USSR, on average, lived worse than the working people of impoverished Israel, after the rise in oil prices - it is quite possible that the gap between the FRG and the USSR was decreasing somewhere. In medicine, it increased.
          2) Yes, but even analysts in the Reagan administration were shocked by what was happening in the USSR when they dug deeper
          3) We're talking about something else - $ 100 a month (in real exchange rate) for a Palestinian and Chilean family in the 80s was bullshit, nothing. For a family of Soviet workers - a lot of money.
        13. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 13: 43
          +4
          Quote: Krasnodar
          1) As for the gap, it was decreasing - it's hard for me to say.

          Correctly, if we consider it as money, and not as a volume of consumption.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          was. In medicine, it increased.

          Believes that the Soviet health care system was the best in the world to provide medical care to a mass citizen as far as possible, in its accessibility.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) Yes, but even analysts in the Reagan administration were shocked by what was happening in the USSR when they dug deeper

          Everyone says so in hindsight.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          3) We're talking about something else - $ 100 a month (in real exchange rate) for a Palestinian and Chilean family in the 80s was bullshit, nothing. For a family of Soviet workers - a lot of money.

          Not vkurse.currency subtleties.and the level of salary in the west.nebyl.not know.if you count at a criminal rate. Then you need to live according to crime.You are ready for this? So it is necessary to do ???
        14. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 14: 00
          -3
          1) I do not agree - even if in money. The parity of what the German and Soviet workers could acquire with their wages was several times higher for the working people of the FRG.
          2) This is nonsense. The whole country was ahead of the planet in epidemiology (prevention), traumatology (Elizarov), mass cardiac surgery (with low survival rates due to the use of venous shunts)
          There was a colossal lag in oncology and surgery. And on paper, everything was perfect - diagnostics, treatment, spa and sanatorium recovery. This was not found anywhere in the world, but the same diagnostics lagged behind the western ones - CT, which was massively used in the early 80s in Europe and the States, appeared here only after the collapse of the USSR (for example). In special coins it may have been, and even then, at the level of Moscow-Leningrad
          3) No, I read my memoirs. The Reagan administration didn’t believe them at first.
          4) Even at the official rate of 60 kopecks - 60 rubles + 104 I am doing a degree for a non-family with a hostel - I could afford more than an engineer with a salary of 120-150 rubles. But they changed, of course, 1: 6 through currency dealers, receiving 600 rubles.
          In the UK or the United States, a fig would have kept a child for $ 100 a month
        15. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 14: 49
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          1) Disagree

          It happens ... what does it mean at times ??? and what does it mean could buy ??? after all, he could not have bought by sending money to the fact that the Soviet worker is provided with social consumption funds.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) This is nonsense.

          Today, when faced with Russian healthcare, I don’t think so.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          This has never happened anywhere in the world

          In the world, everything is different. There is a service. And for money, and not for everyone. In the USSR, help and for everyone. Everyone chooses by himself.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          3) No, I read my memoirs. The Reagan administration didn’t believe them at first.

          I readily believe it myself.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          4) Even at the official rate of 60 kopecks - 60 rubles + 104 I am doing a degree for a non-family with a hostel - I could afford more than an engineer with a salary of 120-150 rubles. But they changed, of course, 1: 6 through currency dealers, receiving 600 rubles.
          In the UK or the United States, a fig would have kept a child for $ 100 a month

          Nepomnyu. That would be in the USSR. for money they were very dirty. It was always possible to earn money without resorting to crime.
        16. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 15: 30
          -2
          It happens ... what does it mean at times ??? and what does it mean could buy ??? after all, he could not have bought by sending money to the fact that the Soviet worker is provided with social consumption funds.

          Once again, he could go abroad with his family (not in a group, not with accompanying persons, without any characteristics, etc.), in the 70s he could buy a VCR, which a Soviet man could not afford, he could buy a set of high-quality clothes, which in the Soviet Union, farmers were selling for mad, in relation to salary, money, they could buy a large assortment of food, etc.
          Today, when faced with Russian healthcare, I don’t think so.

          We compare with the Western. And, by the way, today in the Russian Federation all the most modern Western technology and Western methods of treatment are available. The question is, again, in performance, in its quality.
          I readily believe it myself.

          They described show, postscript, nonsense, system
          Nepomnyu. That would be in the USSR. for money they were very dirty. It was always possible to earn money without resorting to crime.

          We are talking about why we went to study in the USSR, what was the purchasing power and income of citizens of the USSR in comparison with the citizens of Chile (groaning under the yoke of Pinochet) and the "occupied Palestinian territories", but about the illegality of exchanging dollars - another insanity under the Union , showing, by the way, a shortage of foreign exchange reserves due to poor management of the country.
        17. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 16: 25
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Again

          Once again ... if there was enough money after the obligatory payments. Could ... if he had a job. And did not sit on unemployment benefits. It is clear that the German was somewhat richer, but not at times.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          We compare with Western

          In the world, everything is different. There is a service. And for money, and not for everyone. In the USSR, help and for everyone. Everyone chooses by himself.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The question is, again, in performance, in its quality.

          And also in the financing by the state of health care and the patient's ability to pay, which limits the access of poor Russians to medicine.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          what was the purchasing power and income of citizens of the USSR in comparison with the citizens of Chile (groaning under the yoke of Pinochet) and the "occupied Palestinian territories

          I understand from your mathematical calculations. It was not very different.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Well, about the illegality of the exchange of dollars - another insanity under the Union,

          Not insanity. And the protection of the economic interests of the USSR and the people. It is clear that you do not want to legally change.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          shortage of foreign exchange reserves due to poor governance

          The main flow of foreign exchange earnings into the country went through the foreign trade, planned, and at the same time, for the shortage, they could have landed. The system worked differently.
        18. Professor
          Professor 10 March 2021 21: 09
          -3
          I apologize wildly for interfering with your conversation.
          Quote: apro
          Once again ... maybe if there was enough money after the obligatory payments, could ... if he had a job and did not sit on unemployment benefits. It is clear that the German was somewhat richer. But not at times.

          You are absolutely right. Not many times, but orders of magnitude. Take a family car for example. A Soviet engineer (and why the heck of a car engineer?) Had to stand in line, wait 10 years and buy a car for 66 monthly salaries (5.5 per annum).
          An American engineer bought a car for 2 monthly salaries and he waited for the car for a maximum of 5 days.
          As you can see, the difference is orders of magnitude.
          I will not tell the American worker how much the housing cost, I will save my nerves. Please, don't tell me that the Soviet worker received housing for free. It is not "free" to wait 15 years for housing in line.

          PS
          Do you know how much an electric drill cost in the USA and in the USSR (when will it be thrown out on sale)? $ 40 and 40 rubles, respectively. With a salary of $ 5000 and 200 rubles, respectively.

          PPP
          How much did the welding machine cost? And here is an ambush. There were no welding machines in the retail trade in the USSR. Why does a Soviet person need a welding machine at home?
        19. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 21: 47
          0
          [quote] Once again ... if there was enough money after the obligatory payments.
          At times, enough. Those who want to work do not sit in unemployment in the West.
          The square footage of the houses was larger, he traveled abroad without restrictions, the consumer goods sold by blacksmiths in the USSR for frantic (from half to several salary) money was bought for a penny.
          [quote] In the world, everything is different. There is a service. And for money and not for everyone. In the USSR, help and for everyone. Everyone chooses by themselves [/ quote]
          I already wrote - in Germany for everyone and without fail after the tax on salary, (for those who earn a minimum, it is generally a penny) and one of the highest quality medicine in the world. In the USSR it’s free, but bad, in special clinics for party functionaries it’s better — but not brilliance. Worse than a German cleaning lady
          . [quote] And also in the state financing of health care and the patient's solvency. which limits the access of poor Russians to medicine [/ quote]
          Mentality - people arrive and are treated for bribes, sessions are held for bribes, equipment is bought for a rollback. As for medicine for beggars - after a heart attack I was treated for free, with expensive brilinta and other drugs
          [quote] I understand from your mathematical calculations. It was not much different [/ quote]
          Understood nothing. For Soviet people, $ 100 was a lot of money (at least at the official rate, at least in black), for a Palestinian and a Chilean it was nonsense
          [quote] The interests of the people? lol The illegality of a foreign exchange transaction? How did this protect the people? [quote]
          The main flow of foreign exchange earnings into the country went through vneshtorga.planovo.and at the same time, for the shortage, they could land. The system worked differently [/ quote]
          Agree
        20. apro
          apro 11 March 2021 04: 47
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          At times, enough.

          Not at times.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Those who want to work do not sit in unemployment in the West.

          Yes ... yes ... I believe as myself. Today they like to say no work. Does not want to work. But cares in bulk. As today in the russian federation ... for 200 tallers.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          ... In the USSR - free, but bad,

          It is so bad that the mortality rate exceeded the birth rate ??? as in Germany ??? for the Soviet well and affordable.

          Quote: Krasnodar
          Mentality

          Arab Semites were drawn to racist statements ??? I understand that Arab Semites do not give bribes and do not steal ??
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Understood nothing.

          My opinion is enough for me.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The illegality of a foreign exchange transaction? How did this protect the people?

          Do you respected live by the law? Do you consider it necessary to comply with the laws of your country? Or there are options ... and defended it as needed. Preserved your financial system from foreign interference. Without allowing the depreciation of the Soviet ruble.
        21. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 11 March 2021 13: 43
          0
          1) Of course at times
          Food is more choice, everything is absolutely affordable
          Cars - too, and skip the line
          Apartments are the same
          I am already silent about household appliances
          Clothes - Levis jeans, standing in the USSR for the salary of an engineer, a German worker could buy 10-15 pieces at least for his salary (if not more)
          2) Unemployment - well, everyone wants to get a job as general directors right after university ... laughing
          3) Arab Semites - they steal and give bribes. Including in Russia)). They also try in Israel - but they sit down very quickly lol It is difficult to come to an agreement with law enforcement officers and officials - those are also quickly imprisoned, even presidents, even prime ministers, even children of prime ministers. Examples: Katsav, Olmert, son of Sharon, and Natanyahu on the way to places not so distant fellow
          Do you want to enlighten me about Russia? wink
          4) the Soviet ruble was not a convertible currency
        22. apro
          apro 11 March 2021 13: 55
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Of course at times

          Not at times.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) Unemployment - well, everyone wants to get a job as CEO right after graduation ..

          From this position. All lazy people.. Solid. Do not want to work for a scanty salary. The problem of today's organizer is why they do not want to work as welders and installers for 400 tallers.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          3) Arab Semites - they steal and give bribes.

          So this mentality means? A national trait inherent only to them.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          4) the Soviet ruble was not a convertible currency

          and thank God. the national currency. is intended to regulate the internal economy. and the protection of the internal market is the primary task of the state.
        23. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 11 March 2021 15: 37
          -1
          1) Well, how many times, if a German worker could buy household appliances and clothing from one salary without compromising the standard of living, costing from one to several salaries of a Soviet worker? laughing
          2) I, as a domestic employer, have no problem with recruiting staff))
          3) The question is where more people steal and give / take bribes. lol Hint - try to pass a session in Israel for money
          4) And what about the Japanese, Swiss, Britons, and now the Chinese live with a convertible national currency? ))))
        24. apro
          apro 11 March 2021 16: 17
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Well, not at times

          Like this, not at times.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) As a domestic employer, I have no problem with recruiting

          I'm glad for you. The truth is not clear which fatherland.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The question is where more people steal and give / take bribes

          so mentality or not ???
          Quote: Krasnodar
          4) And what about the Japanese, Swiss, Britons, and now the Chinese live with convertible national currency

          their problems. But they could know about exchange rate wars.
        25. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 11 March 2021 16: 29
          -1
          1) that is, there will be no explanation. A Soviet worker traveled with his family abroad to show children the Louvre, showed them cartoons on a VCR, changed diapers for them instead of boiling diapers and dressed in brand-name good-quality clothes)).
          2) Legal entity in Russia
          3) Of course mentality
          4) I know very well about them. The non-convertible Soviet ruble did not have them, because no one outside the USSR needed it)).
        26. apro
          apro 11 March 2021 16: 34
          0
          Quote: Krasnodar
          ) that is, there will be no explanation

          See above.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) Legal entity in Russia

          And where is the body warm ???
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Of course mentality

          Well, that's nice ..
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The non-convertible Soviet ruble did not have them, because no one outside the USSR needed it)

          the main thing is that his country needs it. and abroad the USSR knew how to trade and so. did not interfere.
        27. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 11 March 2021 17: 34
          -1
          1) I did not see any intelligible explanations above. The Soviet worker was clothed in suck, but he was well fed, lived in small apartments, washed with his hands, did not have access to videos, drove, at best, bad cars, standing in line for several years and saving on everything while accumulating money for it. He had access to free sanatoriums, unable to show his children Paris, London and other cultural capitals of the world, except for Leningrad.
          2) Yes, the body is in Krasnodar True, today is -3, the humidity and the snow are nasty - wet and fine
          3) The USSR knew how to trade - barter oil in exchange for Grain?
        28. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 03: 43
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          I did not see any intelligible explanations above.

          So your examples did not convince me either.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Yes, the body is in Krasnodar

          strange .... then Germany is the promised land you slips. do not inspire confidence.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The USSR knew how to trade - barter oil in exchange for Grain?

          The main thing is not at a loss. In contrast to the Russian Federation.
        29. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 March 2021 08: 47
          +1
          1) What? Did access to foreign countries, videos, expensive clothes in the USSR and a German worker's many-meter apartment correspond to the living standards of a Soviet worker? ))
          2) Lived in Germany and Israel - what's strange? laughing 21 century
          3) But the MTSP collapsed for economic reasons
        30. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 09: 28
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          What?

          The living standards of the Soviet worker corresponded to the economic possibilities of the USSR in the first place.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          and a multi-meter apartment of a German worker

          The difference between wp in the USSR and the Federal Republic of Germany was 2.5 times in 1980 ... but given that these are different social systems where property inequality exists and wp is a status commodity, I would reduce the difference to 1.5 1.8. To the same. Housing construction and operation in USSR. Cost a little more.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          clothes

          Yes there.

          Quote: Krasnodar
          Access to abroad,

          With the purpose of ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? by
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) Lived in Germany and Israel - what's strange? 21 century

          Yes, nothing.strannogo.Today, in the Russian Federation, the country that destroyed communism, is trying to switch to the pizh of the country of the first world.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          ) But the MTSP collapsed for economic reasons

          ssssp. I hope a typo? or what is the meaning of laying. ???
          Here I do not agree. There were no economic reasons. There was a banal appropriation of people's property under beautiful slogans and economic sabotage. The Soviet were reborn into Russians. And others out of necessity.
        31. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 March 2021 10: 04
          0
          1) I agree - and they were several times lower than in Germany
          2) Let's look at the fact - 2,5 times is 2,5 times, we are talking about living space
          3) A Soviet person could not go on a tour to the capitalist country only solo, in a group and without a family
          4) I came here from these countries))
          5) Typo
          I agree that they have monetized people's property. That the USSR suffered after the fall in oil prices and the rise in prices for food (grain) purchased in the West is a fact.
          That the people hawala stories because of the smaller, in comparison with the West, economic opportunities of workers, is also a fact
          The people went after the bastard mainly for two reasons:
          1) welfare
          2) Lies and inequality
        32. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 10: 15
          +2
          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) Let's look at the fact - 2,5 times is 2,5 times, we are talking about living space

          Correctly. The average figures do not always reflect reality. The business owner owns 1000 squares, the top manager owns 500 squares, and the worker pays the mortgage or rents for 70, in total they had more than the Soviet who had an average kopeck piece of about 50.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          I came here from these countries

          Not clear. Not a citizen of the Russian Federation? Migrant? Meaning?
          Quote: Krasnodar
          It is a fact that the USSR suffered after the fall in oil prices and the rise in prices for food (grain) purchased in the West.

          Not fact. Imports in the trade turnover of the USSR are minuscule.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The people went after the bastard

          It's his choice.
        33. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 March 2021 10: 24
          -1
          1) I agree. However, the chairman of the regional executive committee also had living conditions that were not comparable to those of an ordinary worker.
          2) I am already. Meaning? He worked with Russia, during the crisis he moved here to be closer to the trough.
          3) But they bought grain
          4) But what about the reasons for this choice? Economic. Beyond lies and inequality
        34. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 10: 46
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          However, the chairman of the regional executive committee also had living conditions that were not comparable to those of an ordinary worker.

          in Soviet times, the director of the plant. lived on the same site in the worker. knew the deputy who lived in the deputy house ... an ordinary two-room stalinka ... the nationwide state assumed decent equality. in Germany it is not quite like that.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          to be closer to the feeder

          Nothing personal. I understand business. But as I understand it, you are a German or an Arab Semite?
          Quote: Krasnodar
          But they bought grain

          yes. but again, mainly for livestock feed. the fodder base was weak. the climate was not the same.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Beyond lies and inequality

          inequality in the USSR. too loudly said. the difference in income was 2 or 3 times. and then income from labor. lie ?? rather unfulfilled expectations. life improved. but many believed that not fast enough. and in the wrong volumes. economic rather, economic sabotage. creating problems out of the blue in order to agitate the population. sow distrust in Soviet power. remember this excitement with tobacco and soap. when warehouses were filled with them.
        35. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 March 2021 10: 52
          -1
          1) Usually the directors of factories lived in cooperative houses. However, highly skilled workers, some of whom were deputies, could also live there.
          2) I am a Jew)) Where does the expression come from - an Arab Semite? Jewish Semite I laughing Born in the USSR.
          3) Inequality - special clinics, special distribution centers, etc.
        36. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 11: 15
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          cooperative houses.

          They were no different from departmental or urban.
          He was not a simple deputy, probably a union member, I studied with my daughter.

          Quote: Krasnodar
          2) I am a Jew)) Where does the expression come from - an Arab Semite? Jewish Semite I was born in the USSR.

          It's okay. It happens. My youngest is a fool. Also a little. His mother's mother shared information about the family tree.
          Arabic halo group. Semitic branch.
          You can be born in the USSR and not be Soviet.

          Quote: Krasnodar
          Inequality - special clinics, special distribution centers, etc.

          Remnants of war communism. And in some enterprises there were distributors. Having their own subsidiary farms, they distributed products among the workers. Departmental hospitals are the same. Yes better. And even cooler are departmental kindergartens.
          Consider this as not equality .... ??? I do not think so.
        37. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 March 2021 12: 30
          -1
          1) I did not know the director of the plant living in an apartment less than three rooms
          2) I do not pretend to be Soviet. Gallagruppv lol The mentality is coordinate-wise)).
          3) Special clinics for party functionaries
          Special distributors for party functionaries
          Distinguished in the quality of medical services and assortment, respectively
        38. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 13: 04
          0
          They did not critically differ in living conditions from their workers.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          I do not pretend to be Soviet.

          And thank God.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The mentality is coordinateally different

          No difference, absolutely foreign to the Eastern European plains.
          They were different, but this is not the reason for not being equal.
        39. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 March 2021 13: 19
          0
          1) More squares for fewer people
          2) Amen hi
          3) I agree, for the Far Eastern landscapes too)))
          4) The reason - not the reason - there was inequality. And a bunch of lies
        40. apro
          apro 12 March 2021 13: 29
          +2
          on this we will probably finish. good luck.
  • kalibr
    10 March 2021 16: 51
    -4
    Quote: apro
    in the west. was not.

    But we must. And then judge. Lord, what kind of people we have, they don’t know languages, they have never been abroad, the literature is appropriate - not in the tooth. But to judge everything is the very thing!
  • kalibr
    10 March 2021 16: 48
    -3
    Quote: apro
    I once received a scholarship of 104 rubles and did not feel like a beggar

    To whom the mare is the bride. This is me about priorities. And here and then 320 rubles for me. it was not enough now, however much I don’t get - everything is not enough ...
  • apro
    apro 10 March 2021 16: 57
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    now, no matter how much I get, everything is not enough ...

    Greed will destroy you.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 21: 50
    0
    Quote: apro
    Quote: kalibr
    now, no matter how much I get, everything is not enough ...

    Greed will destroy you.

    In my opinion, nothing stands still - there is no progress, there is degradation
  • kalibr
    11 March 2021 10: 56
    0
    No, Oleg, again you are confusing everything. Greed is when money is at the forefront. And all for yourself. And I prioritize the opportunities they deliver. You are sitting at home on your butt, and I have already traveled all over Europe, except England, visited a bunch of interesting places and ... I generously shared everything that I learned with VO readers. And what can you share, besides your comments, from which only the benefits are added to the site of clicks? What kind of greed is this?
  • apro
    apro 11 March 2021 11: 19
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    And I prioritize the opportunities they deliver.

    and I put it. But I don’t make a cult out of this. I measure my capabilities with the needs.
    Quote: kalibr
    And what can you share, besides your comments, from which only the benefits are added to the site of clicks?

    My comments reflect my position on this issue.
  • kalibr
    11 March 2021 12: 38
    +1
    Quote: apro
    My comments reflect my position on this issue.

    Means nothing. Clear! One position. Well, at least you read the books that come at the end of the work ...
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 19: 08
    +1
    Quote: Krasnodar
    The people did not allow themselves to be mocked.

  • kalibr
    10 March 2021 16: 45
    -1
    Quote: apro
    And we went to study in the USSR ...

    And cheap and cheerful!
  • kalibr
    10 March 2021 16: 44
    -2
    Quote: apro
    the West considered it the most dangerous threat, especially in economic terms.

    Who is it that deceived you so? How long have you read the Washington Post?
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 11: 59
    0
    Our country is cold. This is a given. Lots of additional costs.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 55
    -1
    I agree. But our wages are also lower, etc.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 15: 21
    +2
    From the point of view of salaried workers, low wages are not an achievement.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 15: 31
    0
    From the point of view of the profitability of production / extraction, it is also an achievement. And remember what salary the Chinese started with and how they are with it now
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 15: 33
    +2
    Yes. They work. And there are alternative candidates for any job (at least, that has happened).
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Professor
    Professor 10 March 2021 21: 11
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    Our country is cold. This is a given. Lots of additional costs.

    Canada and Finland are subtropics however. wassat
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 21: 40
    +1
    Much warmer.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 22: 05
    +1
    Alaska? Is it warmer?
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 23: 04
    +1
    Alaska is not the only US state.

    Canada in latitude is at the level of Ukraine.
    Few people live in Lapland either.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 23: 24
    +2
    I agree, but Alaska is economically profitable, despite all the costs associated with the climate
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 23: 30
    +1
    There is already a lot on what depends.
    There are enough diamonds in Yakutia. But not everyone is eager to go there, especially in winter.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 23: 32
    +2
    The United States encourages crossing to Alaska. There is trouble with the girls - there are more men laughing
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 10 March 2021 23: 37
    +1
    Jack London has it all described.

    So-so idea to build nests in cold places. But it’s so good to leave from time to time out of comfort. And then come back.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 11 March 2021 00: 14
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    Jack London has it all described.

    So-so idea to build nests in cold places. But it’s so good to leave from time to time out of comfort. And then come back.

    Also not for me - I'm a heat-loving Israeli))
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 11 March 2021 05: 01
    +1
    As a child, he was unambiguously thermophilic - because he was a “little creature”.
    And now with a good warm jacket - you are happy with any weather.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 11 March 2021 13: 30
    0
    Quote: Korsar4
    As a child, he was unambiguously thermophilic - because he was a “little creature”.
    And now with a good warm jacket - you are happy with any weather.

    I learned to dress in Germany))
    But the cold from September to March is still not mine laughing
  • Professor
    Professor 11 March 2021 07: 20
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    Much warmer.

    Is it much warmer in Canada than in the Stavropol Territory?
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 11 March 2021 07: 59
    +1
    The Russian Federation is significantly larger than the Stavropol Territory.
    Look at what proportion of the country falls on the tundra, forest-tundra, northern and middle taiga.

    It is hardly correct to compare a country and a separate region to another.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 11 March 2021 13: 31
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Korsar4
    Much warmer.

    Is it much warmer in Canada than in the Stavropol Territory?

    Krasnodar is like Montreal
  • tatra
    tatra 10 March 2021 11: 05
    +2
    This is the classic mentality of the enemies of the USSR. They always rip out of the common only what is beneficial to them. So they compare socialism in the USSR, which they, the external and internal enemies of the USSR, gave only relatively 30-40 years of peaceful development - only with the countries of the "golden billion", and on this they conclude that socialism is "ineffective" in comparison with capitalism in general in the world.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 05
    -5
    And the FRG destroyed by the bombing of the allies, which was spending frantic loot on defense, had more peaceful years?
  • tatra
    tatra 10 March 2021 12: 20
    +3
    Do you know the story at all? Having benefited greatly from the two world wars, America, after the Second World War, extended to 18 European countries a plan to help them to quickly recover?
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 12: 49
    -5
    Yes, and the French and British, who suffered less from the war, were given a lot more than the Germans, who quickly surpassed France and Great Britain in terms of living standards.
    There are many excuses for the collapse of the USSR, the main thing is not given - the stupidity and dishonesty of the leadership.
  • kalibr
    10 March 2021 07: 38
    +1
    A very interesting book "Little ragtag"
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 39
      +4
      Do not read. Whose is this?
      1. kalibr
        10 March 2021 07: 40
        +2
        Some kind of Englishman. I don't remember my name ...
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 49
          +4
          I looked. James Greenwood. Unfamiliar author.
          1. kalibr
            10 March 2021 07: 52
            +3
            Read it. Even an adult will be interested.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 55
              +3
              I remember. But not in the first place.
    2. Van 16
      Van 16 10 March 2021 09: 11
      +3
      "Little ragtag"

      By association, I remembered the book "The Life and Adventures of the Zamorysha", I remember reading it as a child, I remember I liked it very much, but I don’t remember the book at all ..))
      1. kalibr
        10 March 2021 09: 26
        +1
        Well ... about the path to the revolution of a commoner of non-proletarian origin.
        1. Van 16
          Van 16 10 March 2021 09: 36
          +3
          Thank. But no, absolutely not remembered. Find re-read something ..
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 22
    -2
    Quote: apro
    Quote: Korsar4
    Everyone chooses his own path.

    This is true on the one hand.

    The number of Homeless people is the same, in percentage terms, in all countries of the world - from prosperous super-developed States to impoverished Kenya.
    I am talking about states in which there were no wars, natural disasters and revolutions.
    There is always an anti-social element that does not want to take on obligations - such as a permanent job, accurate payment of bills, etc.
    1. apro
      apro 10 March 2021 09: 37
      +1
      Quote: Krasnodar
      There is always an anti-social element

      Who argues. Only some civilizations try to eradicate it. Friends consider it in the order of things. Some bring up their people. Create acceptable living conditions. Others issue licenses for the right to inferior.
      After 91 years, how many people have lost their jobs, housing ... and all thanks to the purposeful policy of the leading class.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 48
        0
        The 91st year is not an indicator. This is a cataclysm, inevitably leading to the emergence of people left without the possibility of continuing their normal routine.
        The example of the unification of Germany is indicative here, which led to the marginalization of entire strata of society - East German doctors, for example, who are not in demand in the FRG.
        As for educating the people, it will never work out to the end. He lived for several years in a kibbutz (an anarchist commune, if in general), social education in any direction of everyone and everything is contrary to human nature.
        1. apro
          apro 10 March 2021 09: 59
          +1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          The 91st year is not an indicator.

          Yes ... yes ... yes ... it was all intended.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          This is a cataclysm

          Man-made phenomenon. Another word called.
          Quote: Krasnodar
          which led to the marginalization of entire strata of society - East German doctors, for example, not in demand in Germany

          Socialism has been destroyed; another reality has begun.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 08
            -1
            Man-made, not man-made, but a cataclysm. As well as the unification of Germany.
            1. apro
              apro 10 March 2021 10: 17
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Like the unification of Germany

              With Germany. What is wrong ??? returned to normal capitalist rails. 3 The economy in the world. Overcomes the legacy of the communist past. You should be happy for it.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 44
                -1
                I lived in Germany for six months - it's good there. We are talking about cataclysms - the unification of Germany at that time led to the marginalization of East German doctors and party functionaries (marginalization does not mean lack of food and housing), migration of the majority of the population from the settlements of the former GDR, etc.
                1. apro
                  apro 10 March 2021 10: 53
                  +2
                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  We are talking about cataclysms

                  Krasnodar, man-made cataclysms, are called in another way, not a cataclysm, but the deliberate destruction of socialism in Germany.
        2. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 10: 18
          +2
          which led to the marginalization of entire strata of society - East German doctors, for example, not in demand in Germany
          East German doctors overnight as beggars retrained? belay Nothing seemed to have happened to them.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 March 2021 10: 49
            0
            In beggars - no. They lost their jobs or took retraining courses again, then specializations, etc.
            Some went to work as nurses. And most of the villages on unemployment benefits and began to make it through odd jobs, sat down on social programs.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 10: 53
              0
              All of East Germany lost qualified doctors at once because they were declared unqualified? Sorry, but the Germans are practical, real-minded people and such an outcome is unlikely. The only ones who had a hard time after the merger were STASI employees.
  • DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 18: 38
    0
    Quote: apro
    This is on the one hand

    on the other hand, it is good to remember about yourself, go to confession, write down your sins in every way - remember from a clever little book.
    It's time for me to go, g ...
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 10: 52
    +1
    Quote: Korsar4
    Everyone chooses his own path. True, everyone has a different start.

    The start is the same for everyone, only some of them are seated from the very beginning and carried on the "neck", while the other is constantly urged on with a stick.
    Quote: apro
    antisocial phenomena go into mathematical error

    They leave, but only by educating generations and eradicating shameful phenomena as an essence. No discounts for age and property qualifications.
    Intelligence, skill, knowledge, professionalism, the ability to share someone else's grief - this is the list of qualities necessary in life.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 10 March 2021 15: 25
      +2
      If there is despondency and hopelessness around, there must be a strong character to get out.
  • MP
    MP 10 March 2021 07: 10
    +6
    The beggars in pre-revolutionary Russia are very well described in the book by the classic of Russian literature D.V. Grigorovich "Migrants". For those wishing to immerse themselves in the topic, I strongly advise you to read information from a contemporary and what is called first-hand. The beggars did not disdain to buy peasant children from their parents, and simply to steal them, they had their own hierarchy, their own language - "dialect", which was apparently the ancestor of the thieves' fenny.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 09: 16
      +4
      apparently the ancestor of the thieves give a damn
      Fenya was originally the jargon of the petty peddlers, peddlers.
      1. MP
        MP 10 March 2021 09: 43
        +2
        This is one of the theories. But in fact, what did peddlers have to do with the criminal environment? But the beggars were sent directly and en masse to the correctional institutions of tsarist Russia.
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 09: 47
          +2
          in fact, what did peddlers have to do with the criminal environment?
          They earned little and did not hesitate to buy stolen goods, they drank in cheap taverns with a declassified element. It so happened that they were included in the environment of the marginalized. One of the theories, yes, but quite plausible.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 11: 05
      0
      Quote: Mpx
      his own language - "dialect", apparently was the ancestor of the thieves' feni.

      This is to make it harder for people to "see through" them. Every time I am jarred from a fenny, and from any other language used in everyday life in a country where Russian is considered the state language:
      Article 68
      1. The state language of the Russian Federation throughout its territory is Russian as the language of a state-forming people that is part of a multinational union of equal peoples of the Russian Federation.

      It is with this that you need to start: either speak Russian, or communicate in your language where it is recognized as the state language, or be silent.
      Something in the State Duma or the Federation Council everyone speaks Russian, and this is not a subject of discussion.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 10 March 2021 07: 12
    +7
    In connection with the published article and the flaring up battle in the discussion, it became interesting: colleagues, and which of us is giving or giving alms, and how often?
    I will say for myself: rarely, but the last time happened a month ago.
    1. apro
      apro 10 March 2021 07: 33
      -1
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      gives alms

      For a good person, nothing is pity. But good people do not ask for anything.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 March 2021 07: 58
        +5
        but good people don't ask for anything.
        It happens that they ask.
        Thank you for your reply!
    2. Korsar4
      Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 38
      +3
      Seldom. If in the train, words and intonation are cut.
      However, returning from work yesterday, I transported the wheelchair user to the far platform. It smelled like fumes.
      To today's article, however.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 March 2021 07: 54
        +3
        words and intonation will cut.
        Idem.
    3. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 09: 23
      +5
      and which of us gives or has given alms, and how often?
      stopped when he gave a beggar a pound at lunch - and then saw this frame, feasting on a sushi set for 16 pounds (for this money you can eat for a week). I also saw them throw away the sandwiches they bought for them. Now WWF is sponsoring little by little. (Program for the restoration of the Amur tiger population)
    4. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 28
      +3
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      In connection with the published article and the flaring up battle in the discussion, it became interesting: colleagues, and which of us is giving or giving alms, and how often?
      I will say for myself: rarely, but the last time happened a month ago.

      Never served to beggars on the street.
      1. depressant
        depressant 10 March 2021 15: 06
        +4
        I do not serve only our local, she is not a beggar, but just a hobby she has. Well dressed madam. And she served the beggars many times. It's hard to pass by. Sometimes pity suffocates to tears. Especially when young guys. I know that this is their job, but their brains are turned off. It takes a long time to come to my senses.
      2. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 19: 04
        0
        Quote: Krasnodar
        Never served to beggars on the street

        Apparently, it was not enough myself.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 20: 43
          0
          Quote: DED_peer_DED
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Never served to beggars on the street

          Apparently, it was not enough myself.

          The traditions of my people forbid me to talk about my own charity. hi
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 20: 52
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            The traditions of my people forbid me to talk about my own charity.

            Oh how.
            We write a minus.
    5. Van 16
      Van 16 10 March 2021 10: 55
      +3
      "and which of us gives alms"

      Rarely. And mostly to musicians, if they play from the heart. Although this is probably not alms already. And some of these "musicians" in our transition, I would pay extra so that they DO NOT play .. there are such, no hearing, no voice, no play really ..
    6. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 11: 10
      +3
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      and which of us gives or has given alms, and how often?

      On the street he gave 500 rubles to a girl with a poster (for the New Year 2021). Every week I send 1-2 SMS to sick children.
      Beggars (give me a ticket, give me two rubles for ...) I go around.
      There is such a concept:
      For you, when you do alms, let your left hand not know what your right hand is doing ...
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 10 March 2021 15: 27
        +3
        And this is universal. The topic is personal. But Anton put the question quite correctly.
    7. Dym71
      Dym71 10 March 2021 11: 25
      +2
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      colleagues, and which of us donates or has given alms, and how often?

      Never, because crooks are a waste of money.
    8. Trilobite Master
      Trilobite Master 10 March 2021 11: 38
      +2
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      colleagues, and which of us gives alms

      I never intend to. I had to deal with this business (and this is a business) and I do not want to be its fodder base at all. Grandmothers, children, disabled people - all these are good or not so actors, nothing more. And behind the scenes there are directors, guards, and bribed authorities. "Left", really needy, a person who does not belong to the "caste" will hold out in a crowded place for half an hour, no more.
      Colleagues, if you really want to help a particular grandmother or child, give them bread, sausages or some useful thing, such as clothes. First, you will see the reaction - it is often worth it. It happens, and three letters are sent. Second, make sure these people are only interested in money. In 90% of cases, the bread will be thrown away, the sausage will be fed to the cats, and your hat or socks that you lovingly washed before giving it away will be thrown into the nearest trash heap or (at best) handed over to the next second hand.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 March 2021 15: 35
        0
        This is a business, a worldwide one, and a profitable one.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 10 March 2021 16: 09
          +5
          And thoroughly criminal, deceitful and cruel. In it, they maim and kill and force them to "work" in inhuman conditions, in short, the horror of what is happening, with a completely transcendental latency of crimes. Prostitution, in my opinion, is a more highly moral business, where the client gets at least something for his money, and the morals are, on average, a little softer ...
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 10 March 2021 16: 58
            +3
            Agree
            One old beggar on the wailing wall said that she bought two children an apartment (the average price in Israel is 420 thousand tanks), now she is saving up for an elite nursing home - a deposit of 300 thousand tanks, 2000 tanks monthly
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 10 March 2021 17: 45
              +3
              I propose to make begging a legal business. Licensed. Tax-deductible.
              A person comes to the licensing chamber and says:
              - I want to beg.
              - Write an application, fill out a questionnaire.
              - Here, it's done ...
              - So ... Yeah ... Do you have any disability documents? Death certificate of relatives? A written disclaimer of content? Okay, come on. A copy of the verdict on the son for evading the payment of alimony? Oh, it's not your son, but you? Okay, come on. Anything else? Employment record, military ID, war wounds certificates? Not? What is there? Exemption certificate? Okay ... Help from the hospital? So ... I got drunk, fell into a snowdrift, froze my leg, amputation ... I see ... Is that all? Okay, come back in a week for a license.
              A week later.
              - Here's the license. Read: born in 1954, three times convicted, disabled II gr. (loss of a limb due to his own negligence), four years of work experience, is that correct? You are allowed to beg on the territory of Podolsk and the Podolsk region no further than 50 meters from existing churches and cemeteries, excluding architectural monuments and memorial complexes. At the first request of any citizen, you are obliged to present the specified license and freely let you familiarize yourself with it. What is more convenient for you - to pay a fixed amount, or from a profit? Then you need a cash register. Solid? Okay. The monthly license fee is twenty thousand rubles, you can pay up to the 25th day of each month. And don't forget to register with your workplace begging committee. Good luck!
              It would be great!
              - Give for Christ's sake! ...
              - Show the license, please.
              - Here ...
              - So ... thanks. Can you do it by bank transfer?
              - Of course ... How much?
              - Let's get seven rubles. For luck. Yeah ... Well, that's it. Good luck.
              - Thank you very much!
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 10 March 2021 17: 54
                +1
                They will be IP-schnicks. You can replace the cash register with acquiring))
                1. Trilobite Master
                  Trilobite Master 10 March 2021 18: 47
                  +4
                  Yes, the main thing is to get down to business with a soul, with imagination.
                  And when this business is so taxed, of those who want to do it, only those will really remain who will do it professionally, bringing considerable income to the state.
                  The most outstanding can even be awarded with state awards. "For an outstanding contribution to the country's economy" or a commemorative sign to present "30 years on the porch". laughing
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 10 March 2021 18: 49
                    +4
                    Or "diamond outstretched hand"
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 March 2021 20: 23
        +2
        Bravo, Mikhail! Revealed the essence of the St. Petersburg "poverty"! But, there are exceptions ...
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 10 March 2021 21: 47
          +3
          There are, where can we do without them ... But even if a person is good, and he has no other choice but to go to the porch, still the thought that from each ruble given to him at least half (usually more, up to 80 %) will take some ghoul, I feel sick.
          However, personally, I have not encountered such exceptions. Everything is very sad.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 10 March 2021 22: 09
            +3
            I had a case.
            January 1994st, XNUMX, seven o'clock in the morning ...
            I am walking myself so joyful and carefree, "wanting a beer, and go to sleep," through the back streets of the St. Petersburg metro, and suddenly I see a young woman, with a baby in her arms, quietly crying sitting on the steps of the passage.
            The question is, could I not turn the pockets under her feet?
        2. Korsar4
          Korsar4 10 March 2021 22: 02
          +2
          Do you think we still have guild divisions?
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 10 March 2021 22: 12
            +3
            I do not think, I know.
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 10 March 2021 22: 18
              +1
              Here, the grasp of the heirs is also important.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 10 March 2021 22: 25
                +2
                Undoubtedly! Indirectly was present during the extinction of the "branch"
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 10 March 2021 22: 27
                  +3
                  The history of any family is interesting. And not everyone will be drawn as Forsytes or Buddenbrooks.
    9. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 10 March 2021 18: 42
      +4
      Thanks to all the colleagues who answered my question! hi
  • bober1982
    bober1982 10 March 2021 07: 31
    +5
    In accordance with the Christian faith, the beggars in Russia were required to submit....., the author of the article argues.
    Not certainly in that way.
    The Holy Fathers taught to give alms according to one's strength and possibilities, to do charity is a good thing, if given wisely.
    Saint Basil the Great taught that ... whoever lends anyone who passes by, he throws it to the dog.
    And, according to the teachings of the great elders: we should not worry about how our donations are used, this is not a matter of our mind.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 10 March 2021 07: 51
      +1
      All this fits into the classics: "Be wise like a serpent." However, this does not exclude: "Give to the one asking you."
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 10 March 2021 07: 57
        +5
        Quote: Korsar4
        "Give to the one asking you."

        You can also serve for a drink, the main thing is not to be clever, not to reason (or maybe not for a drink)
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 10 March 2021 08: 31
          +5
          And there is. This is your deed. And what will be done with the recipient is his choice.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 10 March 2021 07: 55
      0
      Quote: bober1982
      The Holy Fathers taught to give alms according to strength and ability

      "May the hand of the giver not become scarce, may the hand of the taker not dry up".

      This is how bribe-givers and bribe-takers appeared ... The latter have evolved and no longer wait for alms, but come and take "what is owed to them."

      I don't remember who said that wealth is as disgusting as poverty... Serves are when the big uncle took the candy, ate it and let him lick the candy wrapper around it.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 10 March 2021 08: 00
        +2
        Quote: Boris55
        This is how it appeared

        This is how the English gentlemen appeared, who chased local beggars around the foggy Albion around their necks.
        Evolved.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 10 March 2021 08: 02
          -1
          Quote: bober1982
          who chase local beggars around the foggy Albion.

          There were times when beggars were simply hanged there, and now they are simply driven from corner to corner - progress ...
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 09: 25
            +3
            when beggars were simply hanged there, and now they are simply driven from corner to corner
            Now they are given apartments and benefits (78 pounds a week) and begging for free medical treatment anyway.
      2. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 19: 00
        +1
        I don’t remember who said that wealth is as disgusting as poverty.

        But I remember. And I can remind you.
    3. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 March 2021 09: 29
      +3
      Quote: bober1982
      In accordance with the Christian faith, the beggars in Russia were required to submit....., the author of the article argues.
      Not certainly in that way.
      The Holy Fathers taught to give alms according to one's strength and possibilities, to do charity is a good thing, if given wisely.
      Saint Basil the Great taught that ... whoever lends anyone who passes by, he throws it to the dog.
      And, according to the teachings of the great elders: we should not worry about how our donations are used, this is not a matter of our mind.

      Absolutely.
      1. DED_peer_DED
        DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 18: 57
        +1
        Quote: Krasnodar
        And, according to the teachings of the great elders: we should not worry about how our donations are used, this is not a matter of our mind.

        Here's the truth.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 20: 41
          0
          Quote: DED_peer_DED
          Quote: Krasnodar
          And, according to the teachings of the great elders: we should not worry about how our donations are used, this is not a matter of our mind.

          Here's the truth.

          I was taught in this spirit - I gave money for an unknown purpose to you, instead of charity I just spent money.
          1. DED_peer_DED
            DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 20: 44
            +1
            Quote: Krasnodar
            I was taught in this spirit - I gave money for an unknown purpose to you, instead of charity I just spent money.

            Good idea.
            What about the undying soul?
            I feel sorry for you, you have no "indestructibility".
            Sorry :)
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 March 2021 22: 04
              -1
              laughing
              What does the soul have to do with it, if he threw away the money that he could have spent on charity? Moreover, he encouraged the swindler
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 10 March 2021 07: 49
    +6
    Straight away falsifying the church in a beloved favor - I draw your attention to the second paragraph of the quote at the beginning of the article. Come on in debt and do not deny yourself the pleasure is called. And how does this correlate with other postulates of the church etry about non-acquisitiveness and the golden calf, apparently when you really want it you can even give a damn about the values ​​promoted. Obviously, the second paragraph is a postscript of the gagging of the authors of the Evargelia for quite worldly joys.)))
    1. NDR-791
      NDR-791 10 March 2021 08: 52
      +5
      Quote: evgen1221
      Come on in debt and do not deny yourself the pleasure is called. And how does this correlate with other postulates of the church etry about non-acquisitiveness and the golden calf, apparently when you really want it, you can even give a damn about the promoted values.

      Have you doubted? Have you ever seen a priest in a Zhiguli? laughing I travel a lot around the country, I noticed that in areas where Old Believers live mainly beggars and "we ourselves are not local" simply do not exist, they are absent as a class !!!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 10 March 2021 08: 20
    +3
    Honestly, I do not understand the "seething shit" that some comrades are trying to organize in the comments. The author touched upon the current social problem that has accompanied humanity since its inception. On this issue, a whole cycle can be developed both in time and in space.
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 10: 36
      +4
      On this issue, a whole cycle can be developed both in time and in space.

      But some right off the bat are beginning to reduce to the Soviet regime and to who the author really is. Viktor Nikolaevich, I believe that if you do not bump into social trends, the discussion can be much more interesting.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 10 March 2021 10: 54
        +3
        In general, I would divide the topic into two, the first, let's say, the philosophy of begging, the second - the philosophy of alms or charity.
        In this regard, the statement of Henry Ford is indicative: "Professional charity is not only insensitive; it does more harm than help ... It is easy to give; it is much more difficult to make a handout unnecessary."
        And within each topic, you can write a whole cycle, since both of these phenomena at different times and in different countries had their own specifics. In addition, a corporation of professional beggars and a mendicant monastic order are two big differences and each requires its own coverage. So if the author wishes, there is still writing and writing.
        By the way, the site also has beggars and donors, as well as those who are trying to make a handout unnecessary. So far, however, unsuccessfully.
        1. Pane Kohanku
          Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 11: 00
          +2
          "Professional charity is not only insensitive; it does more harm than help ... It is easy to give; it is much more difficult to make a donation unnecessary."

          And I heard the expression: "It's good to be kind, it's bad to be kind" ... what
          And within each topic, you can write a whole cycle, since both of these phenomena at different times and in different countries had their own specifics.

          You are absolutely right. If, especially, even then humanly discuss it - without slogans. drinks
          mendicant monastic order - these are two big differences and each requires its own coverage.

          Remind me examples please? Not strong. I always thought that a monk and a beggar
          mutually exclusive paragraphs. Yet it was not for nothing that the Vikings first of all robbed the monasteries, and the loving Henry VIII also shook them well later, thereby improving the finances of the state. laughing
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 10 March 2021 11: 09
            +1
            Remind me examples please?
            Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites, Augustinians, Capuchins - all these are monastic orders, the statutes of which required their members to comply with poverty in the spirit of the original Christianity, renounce any property, existence on alms. They were created in the XIII century as a protest against the lifestyle and luxury of church hierarchs. The basis of the order's life was preaching and missionary work.
            They played a very significant role in public life of that time.
        2. DED_peer_DED
          DED_peer_DED 10 March 2021 18: 56
          +2
          Quote: Undecim
          In this regard, Henry Ford's statement is indicative: “Professional charity is not only insensitive; it does more harm than help.

          Most often this is an attempt to crawl through taxes.
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 11: 19
      +1
      Quote: Undecim
      Honestly, I don't understand "seething shit "

      You, as the owner of a "nickname" of the corresponding color, could you more specifically and more accurately indicate which "poop" upset you the most, and not just use general phrases.
      lol
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 10 March 2021 12: 46
        -2
        You, as the owner of a "nickname" of the corresponding color
        I understand that envy is the most sincere form of flattery, but envy in silence.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 10 March 2021 08: 30
    -12%
    Poverty blossomed in a magnificent color after the VOR, then in the 1920s, hungry in the 1930s, after the Second World War, in the 1950s and was never defeated.

    In the years of famine, whole villages and school classes went into beggars - on Istmath there are a bunch of reports from the GPU and the NKVD.

    The "struggle" with them consisted in the principle of "no man, no problem": almost every year in the 1930s, tens of thousands of declassed and anti-social elements were expelled from Moscow and Leningrad. WHAT was done with them is well known by example islands of cannibals Nazino 1933 g ..

    .Partaktiv, and Komsomol members, and children, and adults, and employees of the village councils of the collective farms named after Voroshilov, the collective farm named after Kutuzov, the collective farm "Rassvet" collective farm named after the XIX Party Congress of the Kaluga region - were engaged in professional begging.

    It's terrible what happened after the Second World War, when cripples filled cities and stations. They disappeared ... almost instantly.

    But also in 1953 gpolice detained an ode in the USSRand 182 beggars.

    1. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 10 March 2021 09: 14
      +4
      But in 1953 in the USSR the police detained 182 beggars

      Even here, either you have not figured it out, or you can’t understand whether you are manipulating.
      This is not the number of beggars, this is the number of detentions
      So, in the city of Leningrad, 5 beggars were detained up to 2160 times, more than 30 people were detained up to 100 times, etc.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 March 2021 09: 54
        -5
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        Even here, either you haven't figured it out, or you are manipulating

        even here you have difficulty understanding simple, elementary text: it is written - "DELAYED beggars ", ie in strict accordance with the DOCUMENT "Report of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs to the Presidium of the Central Committee of the CPSU on measures to prevent and eliminate begging

        In 20.02.1954:


        During the period of the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of July 23, 1951 "On measures to combat antisocial, parasitic elements" detained beggars
        .

        Has it finally arrived, or not again?
        fool
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 10 March 2021 10: 02
          +3
          The detained beggars - this is the number of detentions. Not detected, not registered, but delayed - there is no difference for you?
          I do not know who has difficulties with whom, but in the text of this report, after the numbers, it is also written this:
          The above data do not indicate the actual number of beggars in the country, since many of them were detained by the police several times.... So, in the city of Leningrad, 5 beggars were detained up to 2160 times, up to 30 times - more than 100 people ...
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 10 March 2021 10: 43
            -9
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            The detained beggars - this is the number of detentions. Not detected, not registered, but delayed - there is no difference for you?

            You already got : where is my account, etc.? fool I wrote strictly in accordance with the DOCUMENT:
            During the period of the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of July 23, 1951 "On measures to combat antisocial, parasitic elements" detained beggars

            do you want to concretize, do you have something else?

            Your right, to meWhy are you sticking? fool
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 10 March 2021 11: 21
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      Begging bloom after Thief

      This is how the abbreviation for the Great October Socialist Revolution (VOSR) looks like?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 10 March 2021 11: 46
        -8
        Quote: ROSS 42
        This is how the abbreviation for the Great October Socialist Revolution (VOSR) looks like?

        so it was called (also called OP, OR) until the 1930s, when the word "socialist" was attached to it
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 10 March 2021 12: 10
        +2
        Quote: ROSS 42
        This is how the abbreviation for the Great October Socialist Revolution (VOSR) looks like?

        Did you just notice, or what?
  • Million
    Million 10 March 2021 08: 50
    +3
    It is strange that Shpakovsky dastardly komunyak did not mention
    1. Richard
      Richard 10 March 2021 10: 35
      +2
      The article is called "Beggars and Begging in Pre-Revolutionary Russia".
      Do you think that those whom you call that, in the Republic of Ingushetia also referred to begging?
      1. Million
        Million 10 March 2021 10: 58
        0
        if not in the subject, do not write
        1. Richard
          Richard 10 March 2021 11: 09
          +3
          No need to be rude and poke. Not pretty
          The topic is about beggars, or you haven't read the article?
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 11: 28
            +1
            No need to be rude and poke. Not pretty

            I agree. You can switch to "you" only knowing the person and having previously agreed with him about such treatment. Well, to be rude is really ugly.
          2. Million
            Million 10 March 2021 11: 58
            -1
            I repeat: see above
  • Inturist
    Inturist 10 March 2021 09: 05
    +4
    Every family has its black sheep. Those. the weak stayed with his family in the circle of relatives and this was mutual support. Then, as a result of a succession of eras and political regimes, this rule was forgotten and distorted.
  • Foul skeptic
    Foul skeptic 10 March 2021 09: 17
    0
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, do you plan to consider workhouses in Russia as part of this cycle? Including from the point of view of humanistic and economic.
    1. kalibr
      10 March 2021 09: 30
      +3
      Timur. There is interesting information here - yes. If there is no - no. But then you will have to start with England, and this is already dragging on the cycle ...
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 10: 27
        +5
        But then you will have to start with England, and this is already dragging on the cycle ...

        It would be nice to mention the English beggars. EMNIP, in some century they tried to physically destroy them ... hi
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 10: 41
          +2
          In 1388, the Cambridge Statute was adopted, which introduced a distinction between disabled and "professional bums" -sturdy beggars, beggars of personal choice. Providing punishment for such a law - The vagabonds and beggars act - was passed in 1494. According to this, the vagrants were kept for three days on bread and water, and then they were expelled from the city. Those who were able to work were required to go to their last place of residence or place of birth and stay there.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 10: 51
            +3
            In 1388, the Cambridge Statute was adopted, which introduced a distinction between disabled and "professional bums" -sturdy beggars, beggars of personal choice. Providing punishment for such a law - The vagabonds and beggars act - was passed in 1494.

            Alex, hello! drinks I just wanted to ask you this question first, but after scrolling through the entire thread, I saw that Vyacheslav Olegovich also mentioned the British.
            That is, Richard II tried to toughen up travel around the country. Moreover, a few years earlier, he had gorged on the uprising of Wat Tyler ... hi
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 11: 31
              +2
              Good morning Nikolai! This is precisely for professional homeless people (there were such already then). It was forbidden to serve them on pain of prison (if they were clearly workable) by Edward's 3rd The Ordinance of Labourers Act of 1349. This law established that workers have no right to demand higher wages than before, and employers have no right to poach workers from other employers.
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 11: 33
                +2
                The fact is that after mowing approx. 40% of the population of the plague epidemic did not have enough workers, and the survivors demanded a payment many times higher. It is noteworthy that this semi-feudal law is now considered the ancestor of Great Britain's trode law.
                The topic is huge.
                1. Pane Kohanku
                  Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 12: 58
                  +2
                  It is noteworthy that this semi-feudal law is now considered the ancestor of Great Britain's trode law.

                  HM interesting!
                  and the survivors demanded a payment many times higher

                  That is, this "initiative from below" was quickly chopped off "from above." But in order to understand how reasonable the workers' demands were, one must know how much they received then ...
                  1. Bolt cutter
                    Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 13: 44
                    +3
                    you need to know how much they received then ...
                    2-3 pounds per year (pound = 20 shillings, and a shilling is 12 pence). Cow - 72 pence. Goose - 6p. Cottage rent per year - 60p. Skilled workers - £ 5-6 per year. A year at the university is 81.5 pounds (!). Then the king decided that the many times increased demands of the workers would cause an explosive rise in prices for everything, and it would be bad for all his subjects, and he tried to leave everything as it was by force. Roughly the same situation arose after the London fire of 1666 - then the English builders agreed to demand prices for their services many times more - the French and other Spaniards who came in large numbers quickly broke off their Wishlist.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 13: 51
                      +4
                      then the English builders agreed to demand prices many times more for their services - the French and other Spaniards who came in large numbers quickly broke off their Wishlist.

                      We had this in Moscow during the terrorist attacks in the subway. They say that taxi drivers who have come in large numbers have inflated prices ... I cannot vouch for the truth, but I heard something like that ...
                      1. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 14: 01
                        +2
                        I also heard about it. As they say, the huckster is not a man am .
                      2. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 14: 13
                        +5
                        As they say, the huckster is not a man

                        It's not even a huckster. I don’t even want to call such people the word “animals” ... negative cash in on such a grief ...
                      3. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 14: 30
                        +1
                        This is the obvious problem of Russian capitalism - hucksters instead of capitalists.
                      4. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 15: 11
                        +3
                        This is the obvious problem of Russian capitalism - hucksters instead of capitalists.

                        Well, how to say ... This is a philosophical question, and one can argue for a long time. But I'm not ready to do this on the pages of the forum - it's better in a personal. drinks
            3. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 13: 51
              +4
              Here, yesterday I supported the diaspora of winged illegal immigrants with food lol in Green Park. Today I'm still going, I'm already going. They gracefully, without pushing, fly up, sit down, choose a nut for themselves, and fly away. And the topic of begging in England turned out to be bottomless, I will come and write more comments.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 13: 52
                +4
                Here, yesterday I supported the diaspora of winged illegals in Green Park with fodder. I'm still going today.

                Class! drinks we don't have such illegal immigrants - it's cold. Remaining frosts, today minus 20 was at night. How do they endure the winter? Do you still have snow?
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 10 March 2021 13: 59
                  +3
                  They crumple and sit, there are no problems with food, but they also have sub-zero temperatures and snow (in the foothills) in their homeland. Yes, and there are no minus ones here - minus three is already horror and horror laughing .
  • The comment was deleted.
  • tatra
    tatra 10 March 2021 11: 15
    +1
    The article is written in accordance with the ideology of the enemies of the communists after their capture of Russia, according to which they themselves, enriched at the expense of Russia and the Russian people, and the rich and richest in pre-revolutionary Russia are the best, most hardworking, gene pool and flower of the nation, and all the poor and beggars in pre-revolutionary Russia and the Russian Federation are lazy, drunkards, criminals.
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 10 March 2021 13: 49
      +1
      The enemies of the communists were from the top of the republican communists, who decided to monetize the people's property - do not forget, comrade tatra hi
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 15: 14
        +4
        The enemies of the communists were from the top of the republican communists

        How did the enemies of the communists penetrate the top of the republican communists? What kind of communists were they?
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 10 March 2021 15: 33
          +4
          From "not pure in heart" (c), but still, damn it, communists am
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 22: 15
            +1
            How did not pure communists lead the elite of the republican communists with their hearts? belay Which of the communists, and on what principle of the party line, promoted the dishonest communists to the leaders of the republican communists?
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 March 2021 22: 18
              +1
              Quote: Pan Kohanku
              How did not pure communists lead the elite of the republican communists with their hearts? belay

              The decision of the pure-hearted communists from the CPSU Central Committee. Gorbachev, for example.
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 10 March 2021 22: 21
                +2
                The decision of the pure-hearted communists from the CPSU Central Committee. Gorbachev, for example.

                Ah, well, yes ... This degenerate was promoted along the party line ... And, sincerely! What they got, they got ... He lives for a long time, and does not repent of anything, a cowardly pig. He was not a leader ... He translates all arrows to others.
                The question is in the selection of personnel .... Keep quiet!
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 March 2021 22: 24
                  +1
                  The selection of personnel was also done by the communists
                  "Whose thoughts are pure
                  But it turned out
                  Enemies of the Communists "(c)
                  1. Pane Kohanku
                    Pane Kohanku 11 March 2021 09: 42
                    +1
                    But it turned out
                    Enemies of the communists

                    And do not say...
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 10 March 2021 20: 22
      +2
      "in accordance with the idiology of the enemies of the communists," but it seemed to me that the author described how the swindlers have long used our credulity: "
      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      A gourmet point of view, if I don't like it, then overboard.

      What can the capitalists not do with the communists? Is it different?

      So exactly
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 March 2021 11: 55
    +3
    Cognitive, but nothing original - reminiscent of the novels of Victor Hugo, etc. - people are the same everywhere ... request
  • vladcub
    vladcub 10 March 2021 20: 02
    +1
    "someone adapted and turned begging into a profitable business" by Alexei Tolstoy: "Peter 1" is described: "Aleksashka in church squares, shaking naked to the waist, in the cold, - as if it were mute paralysis, he squeezed out a lot of money ["
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 10 March 2021 20: 27
    +6
    Oh, how! It turns out that everything was fine in tsarist Russia, and there weren't even beggars, everyone was “playing the fool.” Only my parents remembered those times well and told how they lived and survived.

    When S. Govorukhin's film "Russia We Lost" was released, I asked my father, born in 1909, who was born in a working-class family: "Was everything really so good in tsarist Russia, as Govorukhin describes it?" To which he answered me: "I will not speak for everyone: our family did not starve, but they did not eat their fill either."

    And I remember the story of my mother, also born in 1909, about her peasant childhood.
    In 1914, her father was taken to the German war. In 1915, her mother died of blood poisoning, and she and her younger sister were left alone. The village community sold their house and handed them over to an orphanage, but life there was not sweet, and when their aunt found them, they begged her to take them to her.

    But she lived without a husband, she could not feed the farm, and she began to send the girls to beg for mercy. This continued until 1917, when their father, my grandfather, came from the front from the wound.
    So my mother told me how hard and embarrassing it was to beg for mercy. She said that mostly the poor peasants sympathized with them and gave them what they could, while the rich and priests most often chased them away and gave them a "turn from the gate."

    PS So she got class consciousness. In the 20s. she became a Komsomol member, and in the 30s. the district committee sent her to the village authorized to organize collective farms.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 10 March 2021 21: 26
    +2
    "asking for alms under the windows, they note how they live" according to the modern: "gunners". Only the current gunner does not ask for alms, he acts differently, remember, there were "exchangers"? A person went to the "exchanger", and his or on the road, state banks or in the evening at home. And now a homeless person is climbing near the bank, and he himself notes who goes to the bank. And infections distinguish that you are going to pay for a communal apartment or for "fatter"
    My neighbor was so robbed: he wanted to change the "bucks". He went to the bank, and he was pounded on the head and his pockets were turned out. And how much I went to the bank and paid nothing
  • dali
    dali 5 June 2021 21: 21
    0
    Quote: gShpakovsky
    Before the adoption of Christianity, the Slavs could not even have imagined that their weak relatives, and even more crippled ones, needed to be fed for nothing. Loss of property or injury left the victim only two ways: death from hunger or life with his fellow countryman as a slave, with the performance of a feasible job for him.

    gShpakovsky, by any chance you were given a Ph.D. in history for this pearl?
    It looks like if Western citizens pay, you can write something else, right?