Rostec will develop a new pistol cartridge with increased lethality

Rostec is starting to develop a new pistol cartridge with increased lethality, the terms of reference are aimed at approval by the law enforcement agencies. The press service of the corporation reports.

TsNIITochmash will be engaged in the creation of a new cartridge of 9X19 mm caliber for special forces, a technical task has been drawn up, which is sent to the security forces for approval. The timing of the start of work on the cartridge, which should surpass analogues in slaughter, has not yet been determined.

Currently, there is a departmental approval of the tactical and technical assignment for the implementation of an initiative R&D project for the development of a 9x19-mm cartridge with increased lethal characteristics

- leads TASS message press service.

As stated, the new ammunition should surpass in lethality the most powerful cartridge with a 9N19 steel core bullet in the 7x21 mm caliber line. The muzzle velocity of a bullet weighing 7 grams of a new cartridge should reach a speed of 480 m / s with an accuracy of fire of no more than 2,5 cm at a distance of 25 meters.

It is noted that TsNIITochmash has extensive experience in creating ammunition, including those with a more lethal effect. The Institute has already developed the SP7 cartridge of 9X18 mm caliber with a bullet with a plastic core, as well as the SP12 cartridge of 9X21 mm caliber with a high destructive effect. Both ammunition was adopted by the Russian law enforcement agencies.

Comments

[evgen1221]

Rostec is developing a new pistol cartridge - the timing of the start of work is still uncertain. Am I the only one going crazy with this text? Is it meaningful to write when you haven’t drawn the clips on the water with a pitchfork?

[Ros 56]

Well, the chicken is already in the nest, ..... and the rest will follow, in time, maybe.

[Kaman]

And I thought that accuracy depends not only on the cartridge, but also on the pistol ...

[Simargl]

Quote: Kaman

And I thought that accuracy depends not only on the cartridge, but also on the pistol ...

Accuracy is declared from the ballistic (reference) barrel. From a pistol, even in a vice, it will always be lower, because the barrel is dangling (especially in systems with a moving barrel and bore deviation from the vertical axis, as in the Browning system).

[Thomas N.]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: Kaman

And I thought that accuracy depends not only on the cartridge, but also on the pistol ...

Accuracy is declared from the ballistic (reference) barrel. From a pistol, even in a vice, it will always be lower, because the barrel is dangling (especially in systems with a moving barrel and bore deviation from the vertical axis, as in the Browning system).

Moving pistol barrel (Colt M1911, TT, etc.) deviates from the firing line after after the bullet left the bore. The absence of a rigid barrel attachment affects the accuracy of the pistol firing several times less compared to holding the pistol with your hand / hands. From the ballistic barrel, only the accuracy of the cartridge is determined.

[Simargl]

Quote: Thomas N.

The movable barrel of a pistol (Colt M1911, TT, etc.) deviates from the firing line after the bullet has left the bore.

Not. If a classic earring is present, the breech begins to drop immediately (perhaps because the first Browning models have two earrings). The tracing groove, in theory, allows the barrel to stay in line for longer, depending on the shape of the groove itself. The barrel, dangling in the grooves, breaks them over time, and even when shooting from the hand, scatter begins to appear.

Quote: Thomas N.

From the ballistic barrel, only the accuracy of the cartridge is determined.

We seem to be talking about the patron?
In any case, the accuracy of the system cannot be higher than its individual part.

[Thomas N.]

Quote: Simargl

Quote: Thomas N.

The movable barrel of a pistol (Colt M1911, TT, etc.) deviates from the firing line after the bullet has left the bore.

Not. If there is a classic earring, the breech begins to drop immediately ...

If the breech begins to descend immediately, then for the first shot the departure angle will not be equal to zero. Did Browning neglect or neglect this? I doubt it. As far as can be seen in World of Guns: Gun Disassembly, the bottom hole in the earring is oval, which is how the circuit works. True, this is not visible in the photograph

and the drawing cannot be found.

[Simargl]

Quote: Thomas N.

Did Browning neglect or neglect this?

Read carefully:

Quote: Simargl

perhaps because the first Browning models have two earrings

These are Colt M1900, Colt M1902 and Colt M1905. Most likely, he simplified the design, considering the effect of the breech shift to be insignificant.

Quote: Thomas N.

As far as can be seen in World of Guns: Gun Disassembly

You can draw anything. But take a picture ...

 But take a picture ...

http://images.guns.com/wordpress/2013/11/anatomy-pistol-us-m1911a1.jpg

Actually ...

 he is in nonsense

There are no ovals.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Colt_M1911_cross-section_diagram.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Colt_M1911_cross-section_diagram.jpg

 And not only in nonsense

img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/508505/135322351.d48/0_24db7d_1bce6534_XXXL.jpg

[NDR-791]

pistol cartridge of increased lethality
So I'm wondering who wrote this in their press service ??? There are no literate people at all? Increased slaughter can have a glass of alcohol !!! The cartridge can have an increased penetrating effect or an increased stopping effect or an increased over-blocking effect.

[zadorin1974]

At first, Artyom also jarred, but it turns out I was poorly taught

[NDR-791]

Throw out this link !!! If their kinetic energy is calculated in kg / m !!! It is always calculated in J / kg. And as far as I remember, it is in this article of that site that we are talking about non-sheathed lead bullets (melkan and pneumatics). For guaranteed defeat, such energy really needs 8-10J per kilogram of game weight.

[ANB]

... J / kg

Energy in general is measured in Joules. It would be nice to clarify the term.

[Harry.km]

What is there to clarify? There is energy applied to the carcass. As you know, grain is not dangerous for an elephant, and it will tear a hamster to shreds. So much for your energy divided by mass.

[ANB]

... So much for the energy divided by the mass.

Energy divided by mass is not the term "energy".
Let's not become like ignoramuses.

[Harry.km]

Quote: ANB

Energy divided by mass is not the term "energy".

Adnaznachna!

Quote: ANB

Let's not become like ignoramuses.

Let's call it: Energy Impact Intensity. It will be expressed in the distribution of the amount of energy per unit of mass ...

[ANB]

... Let's call it: Energy Impact Intensity. It will be expressed in the distribution of the amount of energy per unit of mass

Quite another matter !!!!

[Starover_Z]

Quote: NDR-791

Throw out this link !!! If their kinetic energy is calculated in kg / m !!!

From what ? Maybe it was written by an excellent student of the exam!

[zadorin1974]

I don’t even think about it. 1 kg / m = 9,80665J Weapons manuals give tables both in kg / m and in feet / lbs.

[Genry]

Quote: zadorin1974

I don't even think about it. 1 kg / m = 9,80665J

First: in your picture, the formula from a failure

Kinetic energy always was; (M * V ^ 2) / 2 where J = kg * m2 / s2
Secondly: 1 kgf m = 9,80665 J - this moving work and here constant force acceleration, which the bullet does not have.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: NDR-791

Throw out this link !!!

Very strange information on the link.
Pistol TT - bullet speed 480 m / s muzzle energy 610 J
Pistole PM - bullet speed 330 m / s; energy energy 330-343 J.
And the destructive force is greater in the PM, since the bullet has a greater stopping effect, and it leaves all its energy in the body. In TT, the bullet, having pierced the body, takes away most of the energy with it.

[Alexfly]

Change the bullet to TT and it will remain in the "body" as you say ..

[Bad_gr]

Quote: AlexFly

Change the bullet to TT and it will remain in the "body" as you say ..

I am speaking in fact - there were no expansive bullets (with a large stopping effect) to TT.
In general, more bullet energy does not mean more lethality.

[Alexfly]

What are you talking about, dear? I'm talking about developments in principle, and you - about handouts from the state ... Here's a Mighty bullet for you ... Wishful thinking is from there

[Bad_gr]

Quote: AlexFly

I'm talking about developments in principle, and you - about handouts from the state ..

How is it necessary to distort the meaning of what I have written in order to weave "handouts from the state" here? Perhaps I will not say anything.

[Split]

Quote: Bad_gr

Pistole PM - bullet speed 330 m / s; energy energy 330-343 J.

With what fright? The PM's speed was always 315 m / s and as far as I know, the cartridge was not changed. This is ~ 303j EMNIP ... even when I was fond of internal ballistics, I calculated using the formula using the numerical method, ~ by the energy of gunpowder, burning rate, grain shape, etc. and other factors I got + - 2-3%. Soryan took these indicators from "for special use", although the formulas themselves are well known

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Split

PM has always had a speed of 315 m / s

And what does this change in the essence of what I said?

[Split]

My father shot at a drunken neighbor who got out into the street drunk with an ilk, and incl. shot me with wolf buckshot. I managed to hide behind the wall. I don't know how TT. But according to the father, 2 hits did not make an impression (another 1 into the air by ... ). 3rd has already produced a normal effect ... in the head

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Split

... shot me with wolf buckshot

The same shot was fired in my direction. Then I worked part-time (90s) in the guard of a warehouse, outside the city. Late in the evening I stood in the doorway of the building, on the road (about 20 meters from the warehouse) a Zhiguli slowed down and from the window in my direction they hit me with a hunting rifle. Hit the concrete, right overhead. Because of the blow of buckshot into the wall (like a blow from a large sledgehammer), I did not hear the shot. He staggered back to the switch and immediately turned off the street lights. At that moment, the second shot, but already higher, knocked out the window.
I was told that they wanted to scare it. You can scare from a carbine, where it is clear where the bullet will fall, and shooting with buckshot is like from a spray gun, where that will fly is unpredictable. One shot would be enough to leave without an eye.
Buckshot, after hitting concrete, resembled fish scales, only of a large size.

[Split]

Bro, by the shot
And I still got to know Chechnya a little bit. 2x with svd. Spas Muhamet, from the east, even went to him. Daughter insanely passionate ... Silimka
And about his father, the beginning of the Afghan, he commanded the cities, or rather I cannot say in view of his age, but my grandfather told a lot about the quantum, he was a sniper ... after being wounded, he was a radio operator

[BARKAS]

The cartridge can have an increased penetrating effect or an increased stopping effect or an increased over-blocking effect.

So there are such cartridges for a long time with increased lethality.

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: NDR-791

The cartridge can have an increased penetrating effect or an increased stopping effect or an increased over-blocking effect.

By increased lethality, it means that the breakdown, the stopping, and the beyond will increase.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Narak-zempo

By increased lethality, it means that the breakdown, the stopping, and the beyond will increase.

Actually, in practice, this is not the case, slaughter, piercing, stopping and over-the-counter performance characteristics are different phenomena-processes, and they strongly influence each other. Take, for example, the notorious "dum-dum" bullets, lethal and beyond the barrier performance characteristics there at a height, piercing in the red, and there is no talk of stopping performance characteristics at all. Or take, for example, various, feathered, sub-caliber and shell-heart armor-piercing bullets where the penetration is high, the lethality depends on the range, and the stopping and over-the-counter performance characteristics are reduced to zero. If we take other types of shots, we will get other distortions in one direction and / or another.

[Alex 2020]

Who, who ... the manager from the exam! That's who. There are fewer specialists and literate people in modern Russia, as well as in the world. Young people have no interest in getting a normal professional education. (Well, except for the 9 o'clock news )

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: evgen1221

Rostec is developing a new pistol cartridge - the start date has not yet been determined.

You are not alone. But initially it was:

Rosteh will develop new pistol cartridge with increased lethality

Develops - this is already some kind of progress. And it should be:
Rostec has developed a new pistol cartridge with increased lethality.

As always: the skin of an unkilled bear on the cutter's table ...

[Flooding]

Quote: evgen1221

Rostec is developing a new pistol cartridge - the timing of the start of work is still uncertain. Am I the only one going crazy with this text? Is it meaningful to write when you haven’t drawn the clips on the water with a pitchfork?

negotiations with a potential customer?
waiting for the signing of the contract?
start funding?
personnel changes in Rostec?
uncertainty options may be different.

[venik]

Quote: evgen1221

Rostec is developing a new pistol cartridge - the timing of the start of work is still uncertain. Am I the only one going crazy with this text? Is it meaningful to write when you haven’t drawn the clips on the water with a pitchfork?

======
So what? Eugene, I beg you, don't go crazy!
Once upon a time, even in the days of the Union, our research institute received an order from the Ministry of Defense for the creation of a "product" ... Moreover, the timing (just like in the article) - were not identified! And this despite the fact that bench the sample worked quite successfully!
I had to tinker seriously! It was mainly the technologists who were tormented .... Although we also had to tinker ... In short: a few years later - the "product" was put on the chassis and put into service! It (the "product") still "serves" and is considered quite effective! AND how years have passed ...
PS So, DO NOT WORRY!

[Bradley]

So they need slaughter or a penetrating property? Either one or the other, or take more bullet mass. There are expansive cartridges, slaughter is guaranteed!

[Flooding]

Quote: Bradley

So they need slaughter or a penetrating property? Either one or the other,

You are confusing it with stopping action.
And slaughter most likely means a set of characteristics. Or the energy of a bullet. Not familiar with this concept.

[Bradley]

Well, so it is a destructive effect of stopping.

[Flooding]

Quote: Bradley

Well, so it is a destructive effect of stopping.

you're wrong

[Bradley]

you're wrong

Are you sure?

[Flooding]

just thinking logically
stopping action - a narrow concept of the kinetic effect of a bullet on an object of impact
slaughter most likely involves a range of damaging characteristics
agree, it is difficult to consider the penetrating action of a bullet not lethal

[Bradley]

agree, it is difficult to consider the penetrating action of a bullet not lethal

I agree.

[Lech from Android.]

Who is the customer?

[NDR-791]

Who is the customer?
They will not say if the customer is real. According to the customer, you can understand what kind of cartridge will be made.

[Svetlana]

"Will work out", "Aimed at agreement", "No deadline has been determined," Must reach speed "
...
All of the above indicates the predominance of the administrative apparatus over the engineering one.
When will they invent, whether they will invent it at all and whether they will send it into production, it is not known at all.

[aglet]

"When they will invent, whether they will invent it at all and whether they will send it into production, it is not known at all."
but will they allocate money for development? will highlight. master? "master". but the result is not important, the main thing is the process

[zadorin1974]

Where the world is heading? 8 kg per meter is enough for a person. As usual, the confrontation-armor-bullet. True, sometimes it is not clear that in life (not in the cinema) it is easier to endure either armor-piercing injuries or a bullet wound.

[shinobi]

Here, comrade! In the bull's-eye. It was repeatedly observed in the practice of military doctors.

[shinobi]

Mediocrity in press service, as elsewhere.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: shinobi

Mediocrity in press service, as elsewhere.

Was present at the conversation between the manager and the electrician (set the task of installing the electrical wiring):
manager - How much electricity can you supply to this premises?
electrician - what equipment will be installed here, and where?
manager - well, you are an electrician. You tell us ...
electrician - how many jobs are there?
......
He received no answer to this question. In general, a conversation between two deaf people. I wouldn't be surprised if the manager, in his circle, talked about an extremely stupid electrician who could not understand basic things.

[shinobi]

At my work, the word manager is perceived as an insult. You should see how and what kind of applications they apply for personnel. The constant feeling that they live in some of their dimensions.

[Revolver]

The muzzle velocity of a bullet weighing 7 grams of the new cartridge should reach a velocity of 480 m / s with an accuracy of fire of no more than 2,5 cm at a distance of 25 meters.

From which particular trunk? Or a spherical reference in an ideal vacuum?

[KSVK]

Yeah. After the first paragraph, there was no need to read. "Increased slaughter" is something from the category of "effective manager".
And the BALLISTIC barrel is used to determine the BALLISTIC characteristics of the ammunition. Moreover, it is the INTERNAL ballistics. Like the maximum pressure in the chamber, the pressure curve, the velocity of the bullet at the muzzle. And based on these data, you can calculate the ballistics of the ammunition when using it already in a specific barrel.

[senima56]

TSNIITochmash is a firm! They will succeed! Good luck to the engineers!

[Dkuznecov]

Who comes up with what for the people. Tochmash - bullets are more deadly.