Military Review

"The contract for the Su-35 is frozen": Indonesia buys American F-15EX and French Rafale

126
"The contract for the Su-35 is frozen": Indonesia buys American F-15EX and French Rafale

The Indonesian Air Force will be replenished with F-15EX and Rafale fighters. This was stated by the chief of staff of the Indonesian Air Force, Marshal aviation Fajar Prasetio, reports KOMPAS.com.


Speaking at the annual meeting of the country's air force, Praseto said that 2021 French Rafale fighters and eight American F-2024EX will be purchased between 36 and 15. In addition, the Indonesian Air Force will be replenished with Lockheed Martin C-130J Super Hercules military transport aircraft and long-range medium-altitude attack drones.

According to the Marshal, the first six American F-15EXs should arrive in the country by 2022.

It is noted that Jakarta has been negotiating the purchase of a batch of French fighters throughout the past year. Last fall, Air Force Chief of Staff Aviation Marshal Yuyu Sutisna announced the country's Air Force plans to purchase two F-16 squadrons of the latest modification, but the contract for these aircraft was never signed, but information about the F-15EX batch appeared.

At the same time, the contract for the purchase of Russian Su-35 fighters "stuck". Recall that the contract for the purchase of 11 Su-35 fighters by Indonesia was signed on February 14, 2018 in Jakarta, but was never finalized despite numerous statements from Jakarta.

Last November, Indonesian Ambassador to the United States, Muhammad Lutfi, said Washington would not sell fifth-generation F-35 fighters to Indonesia until Jakarta purchases fourth-generation American fighters.
126 comments
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  1. Doccor18
    Doccor18 19 February 2021 14: 01
    +5
    Hindu Syndrome ...
    1. Prax1
      Prax1 19 February 2021 14: 03
      -19%
      Most likely in terms of avionics they are better. There is also afar.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 19 February 2021 14: 06
        +23
        There is a set of measures.
        1. Sanctions
        2. A new product has actually appeared, no worse, but in some ways more modern
        3. Last November, Indonesian Ambassador to the United States, Muhammad Lutfi, announced that Washington would not sell fifth-generation F-35 fighters to Indonesia until Jakarta purchases American fourth-generation fighters.


        And it probably won't pay with palm oil
        1. marchcat
          marchcat 19 February 2021 14: 22
          -2
          Another "donkey" who sees in front of him a carrot (this is about the purchase of the F-35) Americos in his repertoire.
          1. Jacket in stock
            Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 15: 59
            +2
            Most likely F35 has nothing to do with it.
            They just pushed through with sanctions.
        2. Kaman
          Kaman 20 February 2021 09: 29
          0
          Washington will not sell the F-35 to Indonesia anyway
    2. keeper03
      keeper03 19 February 2021 14: 22
      +1
      Well, we will not sell the Su-57 until they buy the Su-35! laughing
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 19 February 2021 14: 23
        +7
        We don't sell
        1. Cowbra
          Cowbra 19 February 2021 14: 36
          -5
          Algeria seems to have contracted the Su-57
          1. Simon schempp
            Simon schempp 19 February 2021 14: 49
            -11%
            Algeria seems to have contracted the Su-57

            Canada also seems to have contracted the Su-57)
          2. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 19 February 2021 15: 13
            +2
            So far, only Su35S have been seen in Egypt ....... and everyone began to secret so that the United States would not recognize the wound as needed.
          3. Anton Shtopany
            Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 30
            -4
            It seems that Mavrodi is still alive, hosting 1000% for free?
        2. da Vinci
          da Vinci 19 February 2021 14: 55
          +1
          Palm crop failure, however.
          1. Snail N9
            Snail N9 19 February 2021 16: 40
            -1
            Not ... This is another "breakthrough" and HPP. "We don't care!" "Site madeanunas!" "Go Russia!" ... "Englishwoman crap" yes
            1. Anton Shtopany
              Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 30
              -8
              But there is a palace
      2. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 29
        -8
        Who we sell su is not needed by anyone, have a snack, uncle
    3. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 28
      -6
      Yeah, how do the specialists from alpha use not ak 112 but an American ar15, at what syndrome, gas stations?
    4. Kaman
      Kaman 20 February 2021 09: 31
      0
      And I wonder if someone in the Sukhoi corporation will answer with their position for a mediocre lost tender?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 20 February 2021 10: 00
        0
        Sukhoi is responsible for the sanctions?
      2. Titus_2
        Titus_2 20 February 2021 10: 48
        0
        You still demand that the "success" of the superjet be answered. If we ever begin to be responsible for miscalculations and non-fulfillment of direct duties, if they raise and reward when a person is effective, and not someone's relative, then the retirement age will not be raised (although not the fact that it was) then in the country. .....
    5. EnGenius
      EnGenius 20 February 2021 13: 12
      0
      Potentially, the Indonesian economy should grow several times over twenty years. So the issues of weapons are relevant to her. The military there are mainly oriented towards cooperation in the production of weapons with NATO countries.
  2. yfast
    yfast 19 February 2021 14: 02
    +8
    This means that we will import palm oil in moderation.
    1. dSK
      dSK 19 February 2021 14: 10
      +3
      This is the same + ...
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 19 February 2021 14: 30
      +2
      Quote: yfast
      This means that we will import palm oil in moderation.

      Alas, no. This would mean raising their dairy farming and a number of related industries.
      1. da Vinci
        da Vinci 19 February 2021 14: 56
        +4
        For example, the selection of palms for non-black earth.
        1. aleksejkabanets
          aleksejkabanets 19 February 2021 14: 59
          -1
          Quote: da Vinci
          For example, the selection of palms for non-black earth.

          Oh yes, it would be in demand))))))))
        2. faiver
          faiver 19 February 2021 18: 43
          +1
          For example, selection of palms for non-black earth
          - maybe for a start, after all, for the black earth to withdraw? bully
      2. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 32
        -5
        Why do we need to develop their scratches, so Lu says from the palace
    3. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 16: 02
      +2
      Quote: yfast
      This means that we will import palm oil in moderation.

      If.
      Most likely we will just buy this palm oil for money, and they will buy Rafali and F15 with this money.
      1. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 33
        -6
        And machines for wringing mssla were bought in the usa
    4. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 31
      -6
      Yeah, you especially sit and manage your purchases
  3. APASUS
    APASUS 19 February 2021 14: 08
    +4
    What about the health program for our population? It is time to introduce criminal norms for the fact that they will oil products with palm oil. In fact, Jakarta has chosen its own path
    1. Simon schempp
      Simon schempp 19 February 2021 14: 18
      +15
      What about the health program for our population? It's time to introduce criminal norms, for the fact that they will oil products with palm oil In fact, Jakarta has chosen its own path

      ))
      And like if they bought the Su35, then let them calmly carry the palm tree. You have interesting priorities.)
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 19 February 2021 15: 40
        +2
        Quote: Simon Schempp
        And like if they bought the Su35, then let them calmly carry the palm tree. You have interesting priorities.)

        Normal priorities. There should be products that are natural and with additives. We have no choice at all. Increase in milk production 4%, and increase in cheese production 12%
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 19 February 2021 17: 41
          +2
          Quote: APASUS
          There must be natural products and additives. We have no choice at all.

          Do you buy products without being interested in its composition? Read on the package, although the font is small, but I carry a magnifying glass with me.
          1. Anton Shtopany
            Anton Shtopany 20 February 2021 01: 55
            -4
            Yeah, my dear, now look behind the magnifying glass))))
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 20 February 2021 09: 16
              0
              Quote: Anton Shtopany
              Yeah my dear

              Unconventionally oriented, or what?
          2. APASUS
            APASUS 20 February 2021 08: 38
            0
            Quote: Piramidon
            Do you buy products without being interested in its composition? Read on the package, although the font is small, but I carry a magnifying glass with me.

            Do you really believe what the label says?
            1. Piramidon
              Piramidon 20 February 2021 09: 12
              +1
              Quote: APASUS
              Do you really believe what the label says?

              According to the law, if there is false information, then the manufacturer can be brought to justice. A reputable manufacturer will not lie, so I try to buy products from trusted ones. Albeit somewhat more expensive than the cooperatives "maid in the garage". hi
              1. APASUS
                APASUS 20 February 2021 11: 42
                0
                Quote: Piramidon
                According to the law, if there is false information, then the manufacturer can be brought to justice.

                Are you kidding? Who was attracted for false information on the label, do not tell me, or is our manufacturer so honest that he is not lying?
                There is such a European quality certificate for food products, all exporters to the EU countries receive it. So it has been valid for 5 years, but for Russian companies it has been valid for 2 years. You don't know why, but I can tell you
                1. Piramidon
                  Piramidon 20 February 2021 13: 18
                  0
                  Quote: APASUS
                  Are you kidding? Who was attracted for false information on the label

                  Do you need names, surnames, addresses of those who were attracted? I did not keep such statistics, but I know that there is a law on consumer protection.
                  1. APASUS
                    APASUS 20 February 2021 15: 12
                    0
                    Quote: Piramidon
                    Do you need names, surnames, addresses of those who were attracted? I did not keep such statistics, but I know that there is a law on consumer protection.

                    No, they are not needed, you have even heard of such cases, so I don’t remember
        2. Anton Shtopany
          Anton Shtopany 20 February 2021 00: 19
          -5
          Where is the connection? And where does the data for 4 and 12% growth and growth come from, different things are not a trifle for you with your wife to try beer
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 20 February 2021 08: 39
            0
            Quote: Anton Shtopany
            Where is the connection?

            They make cheese from milk, don't you know?
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 19 February 2021 14: 28
      -6
      Do not. Do not stick to oil. Everything is good there.
    3. Cowbra
      Cowbra 19 February 2021 14: 44
      -9
      You need 22 liters of milk for a kilo of butter. How much does milk cost? Here you calculate the cost of oil completely natural. They won't buy it stupidly wink
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 19 February 2021 15: 09
        +29
        Quote: Cowbra
        They won't buy it stupidly

        Is it because it is expensive or because the population has no money to buy it?
        1. Cowbra
          Cowbra 19 February 2021 15: 28
          -12%
          Listen you, hungry strongly. Go and sell oil at a price of 1600 rubles = 20 plus bucks in, for example, not hungry Finland, at the same time tell why they produce very natural Valio oil, which costs about 8 bucks, is everything natural-natural? you can also ask why the rest of the oil over the hill is not worth 20 bucks either ...
          But that later, when you have enough money. And then, go, if you do not have enough for food, then on the Internet - even more so, tea is not an essential product
          1. Anton Shtopany
            Anton Shtopany 20 February 2021 00: 22
            -3
            And why should he sell and why are you shifting from a sick person to a healthy one, there is nothing to eat half of Russia, and you have stuck golondia here, the deputy chtoli here fooling people
        2. ZAV69
          ZAV69 20 February 2021 08: 27
          0
          Why is it expensive? I buy a homemade one from a farmer for 770 rubles a kilogram. In stores, the price is about the same.
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 19 February 2021 15: 16
        +2
        There is a TRTS regulation and everything is prescribed there. A milk product is on the counter separately BZMZh there is a large written.
    4. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 33
      -6
      Go out and try it, I saw a woman riot police stomp you
  4. Ros 56
    Ros 56 19 February 2021 14: 08
    -11%
    Our technique will become popular, very popular, only after a real war. Where it will show its advantage in all its glory and especially over the striped ones.
    1. Simon schempp
      Simon schempp 19 February 2021 14: 16
      +15
      Where it will show its advantage in all its glory, and especially over the striped ones.

      And why such confidence in the advantage, especially over the striped ones?
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 19 February 2021 18: 08
        -4
        Historical experience, you can remember Korea and Vietnam.
        1. Roma 1977
          Roma 1977 20 February 2021 09: 04
          -1
          Things were far from smooth in Korea and Vietnam. And in general, the traditional lag of the USSR in aviation was overcome only with the appearance of the MiG-29 and Su-27, and even then, then there was a failure of the 90s.
          1. Ros 56
            Ros 56 20 February 2021 11: 38
            -1
            I'm not talking about smooth or rough, I'm talking about downed planes .. We have nothing to be ashamed of, and here and there we wiped our striped noses, we will need them, and we will also poke their noses into their shit. And there are no shortcomings, where they do not do shit. And now I look, there are too many people among us praying for striped ones, oh, how white and fluffy they are. Ugh, idiots like Oval and his last mindless ones.
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 19 February 2021 14: 30
      +7
      It is necessary to update the equipment in time ..... Su35S is already being modernized. Customers want buns in the form of universal and AFAR ........ the Americans have suggested this and the French too.
      1. Genry
        Genry 19 February 2021 15: 39
        -9
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Customers want buns in the form of universal and AFAR.

        AFAR is already from the field of mantras ... It is beneficial for specific purposes, but not for continuous viewing ...
        Basically, you need a PFAR mode, which provides covert viewing of space (and target tracking), when using illumination from AWACS aircraft or other support.
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 19 February 2021 17: 10
          +10
          Quote: Genry

          AFAR is already from the field of mantras ... It is beneficial for specific purposes, but not for continuous viewing ...
          Basically, you need a PFAR mode, which provides covert viewing of space (and target tracking), when using illumination from AWACS aircraft or other support.


          Do you know exactly the difference in the AFAR and PFAR modes of operation?
          For you do not understand what you are writing about, judging by your text ...
          1. Genry
            Genry 19 February 2021 21: 44
            -1
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Do you know exactly the difference in the AFAR and PFAR modes of operation?
            For you do not understand what you are writing about, judging by your text ...

            If you do not understand what I wrote, then you have a firmware in your head: "AFAR-good, PFAR-shit".
            Is it not clear what the main mode is when its own backlight is off.
      2. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 16: 14
        +2
        Quote: Zaurbek
        It is necessary to update the equipment in time ..... Su35S is already being modernized. Customers want buns in the form of universal and AFAR ........ the Americans have suggested this and the French too.

        Yes, you need to update.
        Only in this case the client was ready for the last generation.
        The point is stupid in the sanctions, even if we offered them SU57 for nothing, it was still not ordered to take it.
      3. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 20 February 2021 01: 57
        -6
        And we can’t make buns, we can easily build a palace, and afar, and so on, why do we need it?
    3. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 19 February 2021 14: 46
      +3
      Quote: Ros 56
      Our technique will become popular, very popular, only after a real war.


      Soviet weapons did not become much more popular after the Lebanese wars of 1982 and the Iraqi 1991.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 19 February 2021 18: 17
        0
        And who used it, do not remember, the best weapon itself does not fight. He needs brains, hands and a Russian character.
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 19 February 2021 18: 20
          +1
          That is, a real war is needed, in which the Russians will participate against the Americans. Clear.
        2. My doctor
          My doctor 19 February 2021 19: 34
          +2
          Quote: Ros 56
          And who used it, do not remember, the best weapon itself does not fight. He needs brains, hands and a Russian character.

          o do you offer to sell Russian weapons with Russian people? After all, apart from the Russians, no one will reveal the potential of Russian weapons, and only Russians can successfully fight with Russian weapons?
    4. New Year day
      New Year day 19 February 2021 15: 10
      +29
      Quote: Ros 56
      only after a real war. Where it will show its advantage in all its glory and especially over the striped ones.

      An expensive experiment will work and the end result is not obvious.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 19 February 2021 17: 39
        -7
        Expensive, yes, but the result somehow emerges from the results of air battles in Korea and Vietnam. Of course, one cannot directly compare, but nevertheless, there are grounds for optimism.
        And in general, for some reason, everyone buys a laudatory striped bullshit in their address, but look at these exceptional ones right now in Texas, the temperature is -10 Celsius, the snow is 5 cm. They freeze, no water, no light, no food. Everything is designed for cheap show-off. And look how we have it on Sakhalin, in Yakutia, in Moscow. What snows and what frosts, striped ones would die out like mammoths under such conditions, but our kids tumble in the snowdrifts.
        1. Sasha from Uralmash
          Sasha from Uralmash 19 February 2021 19: 41
          0
          good Yes, that is right!
    5. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 34
      -5
      Yeah especially su 24 over f16, oh, how popular he has become, go tell the pilot's family
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 20 February 2021 07: 40
        0
        Well, what comments ...... darned is understandable, but why the F-16 is compared with the Su-24, not quite. Why not compare with the same Su-35? Darned hello. fool
    6. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 20 February 2021 00: 23
      -5
      The whole country has already shown the whole country from Mordovian tomatoes, when their bad f16 knocked down our best unparalleled in the world su24, and the delicious tomatoes were banned
  5. Alien From
    Alien From 19 February 2021 14: 13
    -2
    Once again, we are convinced of the unreliability of Asian partners.
    1. iouris
      iouris 19 February 2021 14: 18
      +1
      Isn't it better to turn to yourself, godfather?
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 19 February 2021 14: 28
        -3
        That's what I'm talking about! These are great cars!
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 19 February 2021 14: 30
      -1
      Customer is always right
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 19 February 2021 15: 11
      +22
      Quote: Alien From
      Once again, we are convinced of the unreliability of Asian partners.

      what would you do in a similar situation?
      If someone lobbies for their products, then either dump at the price or make it better than the competitor
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 16: 08
        +3
        Quote: Silvestr
        either dump for the price or make it better than the competitor

        Or have the most powerful economy in the world, control over the world currency and banks.

        And in this case, neither price nor quality matters, you can just give orders.
      2. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 20 February 2021 00: 25
        -5
        And he opened the hailo to the whole Ivanovo and scolds the light, they say they take foreign cars, but the fact that our cars from the factory cannot reach a part of our cars, it's such a trifle
      3. Alien From
        Alien From 20 February 2021 01: 25
        0
        Are you citing the basics?
    4. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 35
      -4
      And we, at 14g, stabbed the brotherly people in the back, and who betrayed the Armenians quite recently
  6. tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 19 February 2021 14: 18
    -2
    And what they will pay. If we sell it badly for palm oil. And if the Americans, with the French people, condescended to palm oil, it’s good. Let them fly. SU 35 itself is needed. fellow
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 19 February 2021 14: 31
      +2
      The main thing is that no matter how Armenians and Syrians ... palm tree or cash - it does not matter.
    2. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 36
      -5
      And why do we need this old stuff, this is a plane of the 70s, give us palaces
  7. Evgeny Kirov
    Evgeny Kirov 19 February 2021 14: 28
    -3
    Rosoboronexport under sanctions. So forget about exporting fighters
    1. da Vinci
      da Vinci 19 February 2021 15: 02
      0
      Somewhere more than a year ago, one man Kedmt (last name is this) said that when Russia is being sanctioned for small things, then this is the introduction of mirror sanctions is a trifle (I am simplifying the phrase), but what does Russia do when it is forbidden to sell Russian weapons?
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 19 February 2021 16: 03
        +6
        The sale of our weapons has already been banned. CAATSA? Haven't you noticed?
      2. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 37
        -5
        We will suck, the land of gas stations
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 19 February 2021 15: 18
      +2
      Do not forget ... we just have really modern Su30-35 and Su57. Heavy fighters that few people can buy even in the 4th generation. Plus, we need to modernize on time.
  8. Odysseus
    Odysseus 19 February 2021 14: 56
    +2
    It is more logical and much cheaper to replace the Su-27 / Su-30 with the Su-35. But Indonesia does not want to fall under sanctions and get involved with the West.
    Therefore, the Su-27/30 will be replaced by the F-15EX. Rafali can replace the first F-16s. If they also buy the F-35, then Indonesia will have a very impressive collection of small batches of Rafals, F-35s, F-15s, plus T-50s, and Hawk-200s.
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 19 February 2021 15: 03
      -4
      What Indonesia will possess, we will see later, while all these are just statements that may change more than once.

      Western systems are expensive in their own right and in maintenance. Won Bulgaria for 8 pieces of F-16 laid out 2 billion dollars, let's see how much it will cost Indonesia its desires for Rafals, F-15 and F-35.
      1. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 38
        -5
        Good things cannot be cheap, but we only have Zhiguli
      2. Keyser soze
        Keyser soze 20 February 2021 11: 28
        +3
        Won Bulgaria for 8 pieces of F-16 laid out 2 billion dollars ...


        Well, again, generalizations and ignorance. We poured 1,2 billion for the first 8 F16s .... plus full training for pilots (14) and technicians (40+) (in Shtats), weapons, infrastructure, repair capabilities, etc. ... The second 8 will cost about 600-650 million. The application is already in Washington.
        1. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 20 February 2021 15: 47
          0


          Well, again, generalizations and ignorance. We poured 1,2 billion for the first 8 F16s .... plus full training for pilots (14) and technicians (40+) (in Shtats), weapons, infrastructure, repair capabilities, etc. ... The second 8 will cost about 600-650 million. The application is already in Washington.



          We all know. Or do you think Indonesia will be able to somehow save money and not pay for training pilots and technicians?

          So, the transition from the Su-27 to the F-15 will cost them a lot of money. And taking into account the diversity that they are planning a big big penny.

          And you Bulgarians give 16 billion dollars for 16 F-2s. essentially buying one squadron in total.

          Training of technicians and 14 pilots cost you like 8 F-16 aircraft ?! Normally they pinch you))

          Congratulations, for the same money it was possible to take 35 Su-20 pieces with training, missiles, spare parts and everything else, which are orders of magnitude more advantageous in terms of combat qualities than the F-16.

          But for this they need to have real independence, which Bulgaria has long lost, exchanging it for the opportunity to work for rich Europeans.

          You used to pay tribute to the Turks, but now the USA.
          1. Keyser soze
            Keyser soze 21 February 2021 09: 32
            +1
            So, the transition from Su-27 to F-15 will cost them a lot of money.


            That's right, I agree. The transition from one type of fighter to another, the production of another power is a huge expense.

            F15 and Rafale are more expensive than F35 .... a very strange decision. Probably they will buy one or the other.

            Congratulations, for the same money it was possible to take Su-35, 20 pieces with training,


            Nuuu ... we are a NATO member, you know yourself that it is impossible to buy your equipment. And we also need a single-engine fighter, not a heavy, twin-engine one.
            You have problems with maintenance, engine resources, etc., you are now just failing the repair of our Mig 29s and have written here more than once, they say the bastards from NATO, why are they repairing fighters and so on. So why do you want to sell equipment to NATO creeps?

            Last but not least, American contracts for our military-industrial complex are huge. They give us business, not you. So if they buy from us, why should they not want us to buy from them? In general, our trade with Shchaty is much larger than with the Russian Federation. You take about 0,8% of our export. So as a trading partner, you are not important to us.

            You used to pay tribute to the Turks, but now the USA.


            We used to buy from the USSR, but the USSR also bought from us. And now the EU is buying our goods, not you. However, we are part of the EU and must follow the rules of this club.

            So you see that everything is objective.
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 21 February 2021 10: 17
              0


              Last but not least, American contracts for our military-industrial complex are huge. They give us business, not you.



              And you were interested in why the United States buys Soviet-style weapons from you? Why is your military-industrial complex so alive now?

              Answer: to supply them to ISIS fighters and other terrorist organizations.

              You have a "good" business between Bulgarians and Americans, you can't say anything.

              The blood of Syrians fighting terrorists is on your conscience now.

              Weapons and ammunition produced in Bulgaria in 2015 were found in the countries of the militants in Syria.

              Even your Bulgarian journalist made a report about this. But your public didn't even pay attention to it.

              And in terms of economics, Russia offered you a bunch of profitable projects for everyone, and you simply refused it on the orders of the United States.

              Russia offered Bulgaria to build a nuclear power plant and began to do so, which would provide Bulgaria with inexpensive electricity !!! But during the construction process you abandoned the nuclear power plant, paid Russia a billion euros in penalties, and now your population receives huge bills for electricity that you buy at market prices in the EU.

              Well done, they made it worse for us and for ourselves, but for what?

              Then Russia proposed to Bulgaria a joint project for the construction of the South Stream gas pipeline, which would give Bulgaria access to cheap gas and the ability to earn billions of dollars annually on its transit to Europe !!!

              And here, at the construction stage, by order of the United States, you refused everything.

              At the same time, everything that you sell there to the EU and around the world would not be affected if you cooperated with Russia. But rather, on the contrary, your exports would increase, as your costs would begin to decrease and you would have an advantage over European countries.

              Won Ukraine, even without EU membership, exports food for 10 billion dollars today, and Russia sold 29,5 billion in 2020.

              And you, what does it export besides weapons and how much?

              Bulgaria has a permanent negative trade balance, you live in debt !!! And all this will end in default.

              And how much did the Bulgarian military-industrial complex earn from the supply of weapons through the United States to terrorists in Syria?

              In 2013 there were 300 million dollars, and by 2017 it was already 1,5 billion dollars a year, and then I did not find any information.

              It looks like the military exports of Bulgaria began to decrease significantly, in proportion to the decrease in the number of terrorists in Syria.

              And the fact that the repair of your MiG-29s was delayed by the MiG corporation is certainly not good, neither for you nor for us, but you were paid a forfeit under 1 million dollars for this, as you asked, and the planes are planned to be repaired this year.

              Russia does not refuse its obligations.

              And Bulgaria sold very cheaply, and not even for its own benefit, but for the benefit of the United States.

              Eh, brothers, all this is sad.
              1. Keyser soze
                Keyser soze 21 February 2021 10: 59
                0
                Why does the US buy Soviet-style weapons from you? Why is your military-industrial complex so alive now?


                I gave you a plus, because we started to minus, and we just exchange opinions and talk normally. But on business ...

                Ratmir ... well, you are not a small child. It is not the weapon that kills, but the one who pulls the trigger. We sell our weapons to the USA and Saudi Arabia, India and Egypt and so on. How they use it is a question for them. Your weapon kills as well as ours, so building a moralist and saying that Russian weapons are the most moral in the world is naive. Our end user certificates are for the United States and Saudis. The fact that they send it to theirs # @ $ # to their sons is theirs, not ours.

                And in terms of economics, Russia offered you a bunch of profitable projects for everyone, and you simply refused it on the orders of the United States.


                Yes, we are part of the EU and are not tied to either Russia or the United States. Although we are accused that we sympathize with Russia perfectly. But this is not so - we simply do not deal with you and do not meddle in your affairs, like the Poles, Balts and others. We are simply neutral and we do not care about you. Russia has nothing to offer us - in the EU we trade without duties and without borders. I fly on business to Berlin for 7 to 25 euros and can open a company there, do business, sell, buy, general rules, laws, etc. The common market is like in one country. And the assistance in the development of the EU country is enormous - only in 2021-2027 we will receive gratuitous assistance from Brussels in the amount of about 20 billion euros. These are schools, roads, businesses, hospitals, etc.

                Bulgaria has a permanent negative trade balance, you live in debt !!!


                Bulgaria has a permanent positive trade balance :))) The budget is positive even in 2020. In general, you live by myths. We have a positive trade balance even with Germany and even in the field of mechanical engineering.

                you live in debt !!! And all this will end in default.


                Bulgaria has the lowest debt burden in the EU. We are in second place in the union for the lowest debt, after Luxembourg. We have fewer of them than you do .... :))

                Dear, well, really you are not tired of reading propaganda, as everyone is very bad and everything is fine with you ?!
                1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Ratmir_Ryazan 21 February 2021 12: 09
                  0
                  Ratmir ... well, you are not a small child. It is not the weapon that kills, but the one who pulls the trigger. We sell our weapons to the USA and Saudi Arabia, India and Egypt and so on. How they use it is a question for them. Your weapon kills as well as ours, so it's naive to build a moralist and say that Russian weapons are the most moral in the world.


                  Russia sells weapons, but it protects these weapons, and yours goes through the United States in full only to terrorists, and you know that very well. Normal countries in such cases block the supply of weapons, but your country no longer belongs to you, Bulgaria has long become the property of the United States in terms of political and economic decisions.

                  The United States and its allies have no need for Soviet machine guns, assault rifles, grenade launchers and ammunition for them, they have everything of their own, but to supply terrorists with them is the very thing, and for this they buy Soviet models from you.

                  That is, what I mean, all your arms exports are, firstly, supplying terrorists, and secondly, a temporary thing.

                  The more Syria cleans its territory of terrorists, the lower the Bulgarian military-industrial complex exports.

                  Russia has nothing to offer us - in the EU we trade without duties and without borders.


                  Seriously?)))

                  Russia offered you to build a nuclear power plant, which would give you its own electricity and reduce its imports from the EU, and for the population and business would make it cheaper !!!

                  Russia offered you a joint gas project South Stream, which would give you cheap gas yourself and make Bulgaria a gas transit country, for understanding Ukraine received from Russia $ 3 billion for gas transit ANNUALLY !!!

                  At the same time, Russia does not in any way limit your trade relations with other countries.

                  Here is what the CIA officers write -



                  That is, by implementing projects with Russia, you would not lose anything at all, but would acquire a nuclear power plant and a gas pipeline.

                  And now you are without a nuclear power plant and the gas pipeline does not go directly to you, but from your Turkish partners.

                  How much do you have for 1 cubic meter of gas and 1 kW of electricity ?!

                  Here is the data for Ryazan, such as about the whole country -



                  1 kW of electricity - 4,8 rubles (0,065 dollars)
                  1 cubic meter of gas - 7,1 rubles (0,096 dollars)
                  1 liter of 95 gasoline - 46 rubles (0,62 dollars).

                  You could have such rates.


                  I fly on business to Berlin for 7 to 25 euros and can open a company there, do business, sell, buy, general rules, laws, etc. The common market is like in one country.


                  This is true, only I am sure that there are much more European goods on the Bulgarian market than Bulgarian ones on the EU market. Therefore, your trade is unprofitable, you buy more than you sell in 2019 for $ 5 billion -



                  And the assistance in the development of the EU country is enormous - in 2021-2027 alone we will receive gratuitous assistance from Brussels in the amount of about 20 billion euros. These are schools, roads, businesses, hospitals, etc.


                  You paid for this help by buying more goods from the EU than by selling your own. these 20 billion are just 4 years of your country's trade with the EU.

                  German, French, Italian, Greek, Turkish goods capture your market and make money on you, and then give you "help" to firstly pull you into this system more strongly, and secondly, prevent the development of your production, in the third even more drive you into debt and make you even more submissive.

                  The Bulgarians have essentially occupied you, not with weapons, but with soft power.

                  All these stories that for $ 7 you can fly to Germany and open some kind of company there are fairy tales for not very smart people, because all this only looks attractive in theory, but in practice you will be put a bunch of barriers, turning you essentially just into slave to the EU.

                  Bulgaria has a permanent positive trade balance :))) The budget is positive even in 2020. In general, you live by myths. We have a positive trade balance even with Germany and even in the field of mechanical engineering.


                  Here is a resource on the trade balance of different countries for Bulgaria for more than one year, plus no, always imports are more than exports -



                  If you find other data, show it.
    2. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 19 February 2021 15: 44
      +1
      Quote: Odyssey
      Rafaley, F-35, F-15, plus T-50, and Hawk-200.

      Rafali is clearly superfluous here. The plane is of course excellent, but at the same time they cannot handle all this. On the contrary, the Super Hornet fits perfectly instead of Raphael and the F-15. They have the same engines with the T-50.
      Maybe it meant either the F-15 or the Rafale. You need to search for the original news again (
      1. nks
        nks 19 February 2021 16: 07
        0
        You have not been able to learn how to google / Yandex etc?))
        This is in English
        https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/indonesia-to-boost-air-force-with-f-15ex-rafale-jets/2149103
        it's local
        https://nasional.kontan.co.id/news/bangun-kekuatan-tni-indonesia-beli-jet-tempur-f-15-ex-dan-rafale

        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        The Super Hornet, on the other hand, fits perfectly instead of Raphael and the F-15. They have the same engines with the T-50.

        Not really. On t-50 licensed f404, and on SH native F414 wassat wink
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 19 February 2021 22: 43
        0
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        Rafali is clearly superfluous here. The plane is of course excellent, but at the same time they cannot handle all this. On the contrary, the Super Hornet fits perfectly instead of Raphael and the F-15. They have the same engines with the T-50.

        They want to diversify their suppliers. And in this regard, they consider the eternal pair Rafal-Typhoon. Although, it is really difficult to understand them. Rafale is logical as a replacement for the first F-16s. But they want to keep them and bring them up to the block 70 version. Then it is completely unclear why they need such a zoo. And even in small parties. Hindu dances are repeated. Plus, they also have Koreans working on KAI KF-X.
        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
        They have the same engines with the T-50.

        Not exactly the same .nks, I already wrote above.
        Although the shed and the hut burned down. You can also add the Super Hornet there. smile
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 19 February 2021 23: 03
          -2
          Quote: Odyssey
          Rafal Typhoon. Although, it is really difficult to understand them.

          There is virtually no choice in the aviation market, minus Russia and China
          Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen, F-15/16/18/35. We are waiting for Turks, Koreans and Japanese with their projects, at least some variety. I don't expect anything from the Indians.
          Quote: Odyssey
          But they want to keep them and bring them up to the block 70 version. Then it is completely unclear why they need such a zoo.

          I agree. F-15 in the presence of F-16 is a logical decision, there are already exactly the same engines. The T-50 also has many units from the United States. And then Rafale, they didn't even have the French in service, in this vein the Typhoon makes at least some sense. Like there were talks about buying from Austria. They have them with a large residual resource, but they need to be modernized.
          1. nks
            nks 20 February 2021 22: 08
            0
            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            There is virtually no choice in the aviation market, minus Russia and China
            Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen, F-15/16/18/35.

            Actually, this is a very decent choice, even minus the Russian Federation and the PRC. Such a very specific product as a fighter jet, and the choice of suppliers is greater than that of commercial aircraft.


            Quote: OgnennyiKotik
            F-15 in the presence of F-16 is a logical decision, there are already exactly the same engines.

            But again not guessed... Jakarta has F-16 versions with PW F100, and F-15EX ones with GE, although there were generally F-15 and PW versions.

            Quote: OgnennyiKotik

            And then Rafale, they didn't even have the French in service, in this vein the Typhoon makes at least some sense. Like there were talks about buying from Austria.

            And you can find out what is the meaning? It was about BU Typhoons from Austria, built in Germany. Did Jakarta ever have Austrian or German fighters?
      3. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 39
        -4
        Are you chtoli Indonesian? Or from Yandex Zen?
  9. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 19 February 2021 14: 59
    0
    Sadly, the USA got their way in Indonesia, we lost the contract and money.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 19 February 2021 15: 14
      +26
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      The US got its way in Indonesia, we lost the contract and money.

      It means that someone somewhere did not finalize
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 19 February 2021 15: 21
        -9
        Let me guess. Is Putin to blame? ))

        The main thing is that new aircraft, ships and ground equipment are being adopted in Russia, and export is the tenth thing, a lot depends on politics, not the quality of weapons.

        Indonesia for the same money will not buy what Russia offers, but what they will master and what will come of it we will see.

        India also wanted for 100 Rafaley, but overstrained.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 19 February 2021 16: 45
          +3
          export is the tenth case


          "Our foreign partners received products worth more than $ 85 billion for their Air Force. The volume of exports for the air defense and ground forces of our customers exceeded $ 30 billion for each of these types of armed forces, and for the Navy it amounted to more than $ 28 billion," - said Director General of Rosoboronexport, Deputy Chairman of the Union of Machine Builders of Russia Alexander Mikheev.

          This money was also spent on purchases, development, serial production. The challenge for the US and the West to win a triple prize:
          - Enter new markets or niches, displacing Russia / China.
          - Through the military-industrial complex, start to put the country on the right track, and then there is only one step to the vassal.
          - Prevent money from entering Russia / China. Well, like - Syria, Armenia, Belarus, let them buy on credit as they want. But money customers must be recaptured.
    2. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 40
      -6
      There, in the factories, simple hard workers, whose government works and does not build palaces for itself, we will rejoice for their ordinary people
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 20 February 2021 15: 54
        +1


        There, in the factories, simple hard workers, whose government works and does not build palaces for itself, we will rejoice for their ordinary people



        Why write such nonsense ?!

        Do you have any idea how much profit corporations like Boeing, Lockhead Martin and other arms manufacturers make?

        There, the palaces of the top managers of these companies are such as you never dreamed of, with private planes, yachts and everything else !!!

        They are so rich that they are able to donate TENS AND HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS only for election campaigns, the presidential candidates they need !!!

        And you then decided to tell us about simple hard workers and an honest US government))).

        Not an offset.
  10. bar
    bar 19 February 2021 15: 29
    -3
    More dancers ...
  11. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 19 February 2021 15: 34
    +2
    and with the French and Americans, they will also pay with palm oil?
    1. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 41
      -4
      With the dollars that we pay for the butter, I’ll pay, they will be on the rafals, and we will have holes in our teeth
  12. Wedmak
    Wedmak 19 February 2021 15: 36
    0
    the first six American F-15EXs are expected to arrive in the country by 2022.

    How is it? How would it be that the first fighter of this type took off just the other day? Are they already shipping the next year to another country?
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 19 February 2021 15: 41
      -1
      It is a copy of the F-15QA, which is in serial production.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 19 February 2021 16: 39
      +1
      These are different sides. The one that took off is a new board for the US Air Force and then for export.
      The one in the article is the new Qatari F-15. Also with chips and buns, but it is already on the assembly line and this year it will be transferred to Qatar.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 19 February 2021 17: 57
        0
        Clearly, I really thought they had no speed, they already put it on the conveyor.
      2. Anton Shtopany
        Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 42
        -5
        Where does infa from the Internet come from ????? Did you read the grandmas at the entrance or in Zen?
  13. Pavel57
    Pavel57 19 February 2021 17: 27
    -2
    Caved in.
    1. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 43
      -4
      I think we got bent over, one more time
  14. Dmitry Izmalkov
    Dmitry Izmalkov 19 February 2021 19: 24
    +1
    Hey, if it weren't for the sanctions, how strongly our military-industrial complex would have been
  15. Graz
    Graz 19 February 2021 19: 40
    +2
    36 rafals, it is interesting with the French they will also pay with palm oil, I strongly doubt that Indonesia will pull such a contract, at the prices of which the Indians were indignant for a very long time hi
    1. Anton Shtopany
      Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 44
      -4
      How much GDP does Indonesia have?
  16. Anton Shtopany
    Anton Shtopany 19 February 2021 23: 26
    -6
    Once again they showed that we have a mess, the country of the third world sends us like a country to a gas station
  17. lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 20 February 2021 00: 23
    0
    slaves are not us, they will rub it in. I'm talking about the vassals of the stars and stripes