Military Review

What should Russia do when "the refrigerator wins the TV"

689
What should Russia do when "the refrigerator wins the TV"

The lack of state planning over the past two decades has led the country to the current stagnation and to the prospect of losing state stability (in fact, to turmoil). When the economy and the welfare of citizens are falling, and the world smells of gunpowder, an urgent need is needed


"all hands on deck"

and make a sharp constructive turn, urgently changing the state course.

"Refrigerator beats TV"


The rise in prices for food in Russia has become a record in 5 years.

Such data presented analytical service FinExpertiza. The increase in the price of granulated sugar for the year amounted to 64%, sunflower oil - more than 26%, the cost of cereals and legumes - over 20%, chicken eggs - 18%, fruits and vegetables - about 16%, and macaroni - 13%. Producers promise a further jump in prices for eggs, poultry, pork, meat products (sausages, sausages, etc.). That is, most of the country's population was under attack, for whom food is the leading item of expenditure.

On the whole, an unfavorable socio-economic situation has been observed in the Russian Federation for several years (one of the reasons for the extinction of the Russian people). At the same time, the highest rise in prices is observed in the poorest regions with a low-income population, which spends the bulk of its income on food. The economy is falling, the ruble is getting lighter, small and medium-sized businesses are going bankrupt, the population is becoming impoverished, and demand is falling. The circle is closed, the economy is falling again.

Revolutionary sentiments, especially among young people, are growing. And the authorities do nothing special, except ascertaining the fact of problems.

You need to remember about historical lessons.

Let me remind you that problems with food (bread) became the reason for the February riots in Petrograd in 1917. And they led to the February Revolution, the fall of the autocracy and the collapse of the Russian Empire. That, in turn, caused the bloody Russian turmoil.

At the same time, there were no hunger and serious problems with food security in the Russian Empire. The food was there.

It was a matter of sabotaging certain forces aimed at demolishing the monarchy led by Nicholas II. And in banal speculation. When traders profited from the people. And the authorities were unable to put things in order in time and correctly assess the situation. She did not take measures to clean up the “fifth column” and speculative capital.

And on the way out - the collapse of the empire, civil war and intervention. Millions dead.

Putin's conservatism


It would seem that Putin's conservatism could be welcomed.

Since he keeps the country from chaos and collapse. From the repetition of the events of 1991. From the death of the Russian state. What will our "partners" in the West and in the East be only happy about? And I'm sure they will try to solve their problems again at our expense. As has happened more than once in history.

Conservatism is good. Especially in the context of the global crisis (developing into the collapse of the previous world order).

But conservatism alone is not enough today.

Stability without growth degenerates into stagnation. And this is already a harbinger of decay and turmoil.

The people cannot but develop. And the growth of well-being must take place constantly.

People can suffer some problems and difficulties if they are obvious, objective. As it was during the Great Patriotic War.

Before the war

"Life has become better, life has become happier".

After the war, the country recovered in the shortest possible time. And life began to improve again.

Up to regular price reductions for food and manufactured goods. This was an indicator of the quality of governance under Stalin. At the same time, people saw how new schools, palaces of culture, hospitals, sanatoriums, bridges and roads were being built and put into operation (and not "optimized", as it is now in the Russian Federation).

There are no special difficulties in the external and internal situation at present. The point is the quality of management and the desire of a certain stratum for profit.

Everything else can be decided. In particular, through new industrialization and targeted development of agricultural sectors. Putting order in domestic trade. An increase in the quality of managers, not in their number.

Irritation builds up among the people.

This is used by various destructive forces. Society always starts asking questions when the life of the common people gets worse. At the same time, concealing information and lying about the true state of affairs in the country and the world are always worse than the truth.

Power must always have a strategic plan and consistently achieve tactical goals. And if it is impossible to achieve them, either change them, or - the whole strategy.
Today it has become obvious that endless talks about a market economy, privatization, innovation, modernization, optimization, digitalization are all verbiage. Like dreams

"About Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok",

preservation of Russia in a raw material economy "pipe".

The semi-colonial, raw material and peripheral capitalist model of the 1990-2000 model has completely exhausted itself. The liberal economic model is leading the Russian Federation to disaster. "Strategy 2020", like the May 2012 decrees, as well as the national projects of 2018 - all this completely collapsed. And it's impossible.

What to do


First, you need to abandon the advisers face of the IMF, WB, EBRD. And their Russian minions like HSE and RANEPA.

Liberal-monetary methods of management - in a landfill. Gather a different intellectual team, change the strategic economic course. Moreover, this should have been done back in 2014, when the West organized a revolution in Ukraine. In the wake of the patriotic upsurge, immediately after the reunification with Crimea, this would have been much easier to accomplish. Now it will be much more difficult.

Secondly, full control over the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance. The Ministry of Finance must implement targeted investments at the lowest or even negative percentage in industry, agriculture and large infrastructure projects (for example, the completion of the Northern Railway, which will complement the Transsib; a tunnel or bridge to Sakhalin, etc.). Rejection of the 2018 pension reform.

Third, a powerful demographic program is needed. In order to restore the reproduction of the Russian people and other endangered indigenous peoples of Russia.

Expansion of the maternity capital program (for example, with each child the amount increases by 50–70%), as well as the possibilities of its use.

Introduce the maternal salary (equal to the national average) so that the mother (or, in special cases, the father) can only deal with the upbringing and development of children. Introduce the ratio: the more children, the higher the salary. Loans for their housing to young families at zero or even negative interest: with two children, half of the debt is written off, with three - 70%, with four - the entire amount.

Plus a full-fledged restoration of the Soviet system of upbringing and education: secondary school, art, music schools, houses of creativity and culture, circles, etc. Children from morning to evening must study, reveal their intellectual, creative and physical potential. Everything is free, at the expense of the state. Accordingly, teachers, lecturers, educators, scientific, creative, artistic and physical leaders should materially become the elite of the nation.

Thus, right now, before it is too late, it is necessary to solve the priority problems of Russia.

Show the people that the government does not sleep and is acting.

We should start acting in this direction now, while the people still trust the authorities.

The foundation of all measures is full sovereignty from the West (and not partial, as it is now), social justice, the good of the people and the state.

Ignoring the instructions of the EU and the United States, a course towards a true strategic alliance with China. Complete sabotage of the recommendations of Western organizations like the IMF.

The dog barks and the caravan moves on.

Recognize the fact of division of the Russian super-ethnos and the Russian world. To declare a course for the unity of Great, Small and White Russia - the entire Russian people.

With the new composition of the State Duma, cancel the pension reform, which has sharply undermined the people's confidence in the supreme power. Return the retirement age to the previous standards.

Give up the vicious practice of using the people in the form of "new oil". In essence, this is a sabotage of the West against Russia and the Russian people.

Stop exporting capital. Use the funds of the gold reserves and the NWF for targeted investment in large industrial, agricultural, and infrastructure projects. To increase wages, benefits, create conditions for a constant growth in the well-being of the people and the demand of the population.

These simple and even populist measures will lead to the formation of a sovereign (autocratic), popular model of the state.

This will bring Russia out of stagnation.

Allows for quick upgrades.

Will solve the problem of the extinction of the people.

And he will save the power in the raging sea of ​​world turmoil.
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  1. Svarog
    Svarog 24 February 2021 10: 03
    +46
    Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..
    1. marchcat
      marchcat 24 February 2021 10: 12
      +35
      There is not something that they are not capable of, their thoughts are not at all about the country, but about the pocket.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 24 February 2021 10: 35
        +31
        Quote: marchcat
        There is not something that they are not capable of, their thoughts are not at all about the country, but about the pocket.

        I would also add about the most important problem of Russia-demography .. do not care there like the others .. but for us this is an overriding problem. Which requires a serious, comprehensive approach ... and requires "yesterday" ..
        It is necessary to completely revise the results of the optimization of medicine and punish those responsible for what is happening now. Medicine should be accessible to everyone and of high quality. And the birth rate must also be increased. Only with the development of the village is it possible in my opinion. And then the infrastructure, interest-free loans for housing construction, loans for agribusiness are also interest-free, and of course it is necessary to make sure that the products of the villagers can compete with agricultural holdings.
        1. Destiny
          Destiny 24 February 2021 10: 45
          +54
          It is necessary to completely revise the results of medicine optimization

          It would be nice, otherwise they diligently closed FAPs (feldsher-midwife stations) throughout the country, declaring them ineffective and unprofitable, but now, to the applause of United Russia, the president declares that it is important to create and open FAPs. Putin's breakthrough.
          1. FIR FIR
            FIR FIR 24 February 2021 15: 11
            +13
            Quote: Destiny
            the president declares that it is important to create and open FAPs.

            It is not enough to declare. It is not enough to build. We still need to find enthusiasts (or altruists) with a medical education who will work in these rural FAPs.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 19
              +28
              Quote: FIR FIR
              We still need to find enthusiasts (or altruists) with a medical education who will work in these rural FAPs.

              Enthusiasm is a good thing, but it should have serious financial support. Overuse of enthusiasm is adventurism. In our life, you will not find such enthusiasts at the FAP
          2. Private89
            Private89 24 February 2021 18: 47
            +22
            You can write a lot of things that need to be done so that the country and people do not bend. It is already obvious to every ordinary person what needs to be done, it is not obvious only to this bourgeois power. It is clearly seen that the goal of this government is not the welfare of citizens, but the extraction of maximum profits from the bowels, enterprises and people. And they will not voluntarily give up this parasitic way of life at the expense of the people.

            For measures, you can use at least 20 Delyagin normality points.

            1. To abolish the unjustified theft from us 5 years of life in the form of raising the retirement age. Return the time of retirement for men at 60, women at 55.
            2. To ensure the constitutional right to life by guaranteeing every citizen of the Russian Federation a real living wage.
            3. Introduce a progressive taxation of income and property of citizens in accordance with world practice. Incomes below two real living wages and minor assets should not be taxed. Fines should be proportional to the income and property of the citizen.
            4. Revise the results of predatory privatization by introducing a compensatory tax in the amount of the difference between the real value of assets and the price paid for it by the privatizers. Provide for the possibility of its payment not in money, but in blocks of shares.
            5. To ensure the use of funds accumulated by the state for the needs of the development of Russia; guarantee the regions and local authorities the means to ensure the fulfillment of their obligations to citizens.

            6. To return to Russia the corporations taken offshore, providing for free confiscation in favor of the people as ownerless property of all property taken offshore and not re-registered in the country for six months.
            7. Limit the arbitrariness of monopolies, giving the FAS rights similar to those in developed countries, tightly controlling natural monopolies, subsidizing all expenses for housing and communal services over 10% of family income.
            8. To curb corruption by methods that ensure self-cleaning of the most decayed government bodies (following the example of Italy and the USA, first of all).
            9. Withdraw from the WTO agreements (they are so harmful that they could be signed for either medical or corruption reasons, which makes them null and void under international law), provide reasonable protectionism.
            10. To provide cheap long-term credit for the implementation of socially necessary projects by limiting financial speculation (as was done in Western Europe before the 80s, in the USA until 1999, in Japan until 2000, and in China now).
            11. To restore medicine aimed at curing people, and not at extracting money from them, "according to Semashko", and not "according to Golikova" (based on Soviet principles, healthcare in Japan, South Korea, China showed the best results in the context of coronavirus). To eradicate inadequate, corrupt and destructive forms of the fight against the coronavirus, reborn in the coronavirus, and bring their organizers to justice.
            12. Abolish the Unified State Exam and other reforms aimed at moribund youth, create a system of comprehensive education that teaches to think independently, educates a free, responsible and harmoniously developed member of society.
            13. Abolish juvenile justice and bring its organizers to justice.
            Prohibit microfinance organizations (MFOs) as usurious.
            14. Introduce a visa regime with countries of the former USSR that do not integrate with Russia or that infringe on Russian culture. Introduce "positive discrimination": to give work primarily to citizens of the Russian Federation. Eliminate social dumping by obliging employers to provide migrant workers with conditions no worse than the citizens of the Russian Federation, finance their socialization and bear responsibility for the offenses they commit; violators of these norms are punished for the slave trade. Send migrant workers from the Russian Federation who do not have a decent job at their expense.
            15. Abolish the 2018 "tax maneuver" (stimulating the export of raw materials from Russia and undermining its processing), reduce VAT to 10% (the cost of criminal transactions with it), exempt investments from income tax, exempt productive small and micro- business.
            16. Conduct an audit of the reforms of the period of national betrayal, canceling the most destructive of them (monetization of benefits, elimination of solid pension guarantees, destruction of unified technological complexes, including in the power industry, abolition of real control over the work of budgetary organizations, destruction of forest protection, etc.) ...
            17. For any crimes and offenses, civil servants should bear twice as heavy responsibility as ordinary citizens.
            18. Normalize the work of the courts, ensuring control over the quality of their work, normal working conditions and protection from administrative, political, criminal and commercial pressure.
            19. To restore the electivity of judges of all levels, except for the Supreme Court, which existed in the USSR, to elect members of the Federation Council by popular vote. Create effective mechanisms for recalling deputies and judges at all levels.
            20. To ensure the holding of permanent electronic referendums with flexible delegation of votes (including for specialists in the issues under discussion), with their decisions in the future becoming binding.
            1. puskarinkis
              puskarinkis 24 February 2021 19: 28
              +17
              Another would be to return the bowels to the people ... And the right to defense with weapons.
            2. your1970
              your1970 24 February 2021 23: 13
              -1
              Quote: Private 89
              8. To curb corruption by methods that ensure self-cleaning of the most decayed government bodies (following the example of Italy and the USA, first of all).

              - having reached this, you can not read further - the Pentagon, which does not know where 8 trillion (!!!!) dollars have gone ("No money, bye, bye ..... lost by accident ..") - as an example of self-cleaning .. ..
              Quote: Private 89
              Introduce a visa regime with non-integrating with Russia
              - with country 404, maybe ... all the rest - Limitrophes and Rodents long ago on visas
              Quote: Private 89
              Send migrant workers from the Russian Federation who do not have a decent job at their expense.
              -and you know how to technologically implement it? if he has no work, how are you going to kick money out of him?
              Quote: Private 89
              According любые belay Crimes and misdemeanors civil servants must bear twice as heavy responsibility as ordinary citizens.
              -then the financing of salaries should be at least twice as high - otherwise you will not lure people there. And again, equality of citizens before the law - the Constitution is spelled out
              Quote: Private 89
              To restore the electivity of judges of all levels that existed in the USSR
              - and you will choose from whom? from turners? from drivers? from anyone with a higher education? from whom?

              all together gives the impression of a struggle for all good - under heavy drugs .......
            3. Icarus
              Icarus 25 February 2021 11: 47
              +2
              20. To ensure the holding of permanent electronic referendums with flexible delegation of votes (including for specialists in the issues under discussion), with their decisions in the future becoming binding.

              As for the last point. Even now, military pensioners can be active and sign a petition to abolish the reduction coefficient (73,68%) for calculating the military pension introduced in accordance with part two of Article 43 of the Law of the Russian Federation of February 12, 1993 N 4468-1. The petition can be signed by those registered with the State Services. Here is the link: https://www.roi.ru/70721/
              1. grindz
                grindz 28 February 2021 01: 19
                +1
                The vote for Dzherzhinsky-Nevsky showed that you can cheat there as you want. And how to believe all this?
                1. Icarus
                  Icarus 28 February 2021 17: 47
                  0

                  In any case, on the website Russian Public Initiative (roi.ru), you can see how many votes were voted before your vote, and immediately after the vote, another one is added. Sometimes even idiotic, in my opinion, initiatives took place. And, if the initiative has received 100 thousand votes for a certain period of time, the commission will be obliged to consider the initiative, but will not be obliged to satisfy it. In any case, the authorities receive a signal about the presence of this or that problem, which can develop into something more, if nothing is done.
            4. nod739
              nod739 25 February 2021 14: 45
              0
              Reducing VAT contributes to the raw material economy, and its increase just stimulates (indirectly, of course, and not just), so as not to sell 'boards', but 'chairs'
            5. clerk
              clerk 26 February 2021 09: 46
              0
              ... For measures, you can use at least 20 Delyagin normality points.
              This is what Matvey Matveevich is all about. He never has enough endurance and determination to clean his room from alpha to omega. He is a theorist. He is a great theoretical moralist. In theory, he is merciless, cruel, adamant and vengeful without limits. Like Jehovah himself. An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. Whoever lifted the sword from the sword perish. If the enemy bully, he is destroyed. Vengeance is mine, and only me ... It would seem, give him free rein - and half the world of violence will lie in the smoking ruins. But there is a lack of determination, damn it at all. It gets in the way, damn it completely, a natural gentleness, as well as an innate conviction that two adults can always agree with each other. Therefore, the transition from theory to practice never occurs in Matvey Matveyevich. If Matvey Matveyevich at least once in his life had the chance to translate into reality at least one of his terrible slogans, I think he would have scared to hiccups, and maybe he would have completely died of chagrin that it turned out so badly. (C)
            6. Ilya22558
              Ilya22558 26 February 2021 09: 57
              +2
              You forgot to mention the complete confiscation of property to the state income from civil servants convicted of economic crimes, as well as from their family members.
          3. New Year day
            New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 13
            +23
            Quote: Destiny
            It would be nice, otherwise they diligently closed FAPs (feldsher-midwife stations) throughout the country, declaring them ineffective and unprofitable, but now, to the applause of United Russia, the president declares that it is important to create and open FAPs. Putin's breakthrough.

            You have no idea how much money you have laundered in this case! Movement is everything, the result is nothing!
        2. WIKI
          WIKI 24 February 2021 11: 26
          +19
          Quote: Svarog
          I would also add about the most important problem

          I would add. With any changes, there are always spontaneous moments. Our modern judicial system, which is dependent on telephone law and the availability of funds, is unable to cope with this. First of all, it needs a tough reform. For such a huge transformation to take place, truly independent, not pocket-sized public organizations capable of defending human rights of labor are needed.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 24 February 2021 13: 02
            +1
            Quote: WIKI
            First of all, it needs a tough reform.

            what exactly? I hope not digitalization with AI ???
            1. WIKI
              WIKI 24 February 2021 13: 37
              +1
              They just need to be replaced with university graduates. There will be more benefits.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 24 February 2021 16: 47
              -1
              "I hope not digitalization with AI" - Yes, this is exactly what is needed, since all people have their own shirt and will always be closer to the body.
            3. Overlock
              Overlock 24 February 2021 22: 18
              +19
              Quote: aybolyt678
              I hope not digitalization with AI ???

              Lustration, removal of immunity
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 20
            +21
            Quote: WIKI
            Our modern judicial system, which depends on telephone law and the availability of funds, is unable to cope with this. First of all, it needs a tough reform.

            not reform, but lustration of judges. Everyone! While reforms end with moving figures horizontally or vertically
            1. your1970
              your1970 24 February 2021 23: 30
              +3
              Quote: Silvestr
              Quote: WIKI
              Our modern judicial system, which depends on telephone law and the availability of funds, is unable to cope with this. First of all, it needs a tough reform.

              not reform, but lustration of judges. Everyone! While reforms end with moving figures horizontally or vertically

              -illustrated ..... then what? today you kicked them out cleanly, and tomorrow the trial won't be postponed for half a year due to the fact that you have no judges
              Quote: Overlock
              lifting of immunity
              - oh how ... don't you understand what this will mean in practice?
              And this will mean that any an official who has at least some kind of power (the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, the governor, and so on) - will open the door to the court with his foot ... and the judge will make the decision they need ... and if now it may or may not be - then after lifting the immunity - it will be 200%
              Judges are inviolable all over the world - they are too much of a responsibility

              Quote: Silvestr
              lustration of judges. Everyone!
              - we had a surgeon, since Soviet times. Thank God, he died ... he started any operation with a glass of alcohol - he never did operations when he was sober. Nobody knows how many people he killed. Conveniently, no one will bother ... In Soviet times, they were not kicked out - in the new, of course - 1 surgeon per district !!!
              They began to treat my father for pneumonia - as a result, they destroyed the heart, lungs and liver ... healed ... 1984 ...
              A recent case - during the treatment of a broken arm, an abortion was caused in a pregnant woman ...

              let’s lustrate the doctors too, they also have a lot of sins ... no less than the judges ... and they take bribes like from a bush ...
              1. WIKI
                WIKI 25 February 2021 15: 45
                +2
                Quote: your1970
                Judges are inviolable all over the world - they are too much of a responsibility

                I would not mention the world in this case. It is necessary to defend the courts, which are trusted by citizens. Here you have to act like a loss-making enterprise over the years. Or bankrupt, or modernize.

                And ordinary citizens trust the courts by 14%.
                https://www.rbc.ru/society/22/05/2018/5b04004f9a7947693c8553c5
                1. your1970
                  your1970 25 February 2021 21: 46
                  +2
                  Well for starters plate - golly lies, drawn from the bulldozer... well, maybe under drugs ... but what - draw yourself any numbers and shout: "AAAA !!!! Nobody believes the courts !!!! OOOOO !! The percentage of convicts is great !!!!"
                  you CAREFULLY look at her and you will understand too "girl designer" drew numbers.....
                  so let's dance from USA
                  - small (to put it mildly) the state of Israel with 40 times less US has 1/2 convicted from the United States ... already well, it means a swindler on a swindler and a swindler drives in Israel repeat
                  -the same garbage in Belarus - 40 times to 1/2
                  -Georgia at numbers 100 (!!!!!!) times less US has 1/5 convicted from the USA
                  -Netherlands in numbers 21 (!!!!!!) times less US has more convicted than the US.
                  and then they start to appear on the stage serious boys crime
                  - Poland and Spain - with a population of 10 times less US - crime in 3 more than in the U.S. No, well, one could somehow expect such a thing from Poland, but Spain ...
                  and here real criminals pulled up - France in 5 times the smaller one has crime in 7 times more than in the USA and Germany in 4 times the smaller one has crime in 10 times(!!!!!!) more than in the USA
                  Just think about it - they are singing about the German Ordnung - and there crime is 10 times more than in the USA lol lol
                  But the most thieves in Turkey, with a number of 4 times less-crooks more 20 (!!!) time

                  So we come to the conclusion ( belay repeat lol ) -that it is necessary to modernize the whole society and the entire judicial system in Israel, Belarus, Georgia, the Netherlands, Poland, Spain, Germany, France and Turkey ... it is too much imprisonment compared to the United States ...

                  Judging by these figures, her Zhenechka Psaki was..... Even for our "girls-designers" - this is too much
                  what lol lol

                  For those who are especially stubborn and believe in such tables, the population of Germany is about 2 times less than ours, and according to this table, the crime rate is higher.
          3. Icarus
            Icarus 25 February 2021 11: 58
            +2
            First of all, it needs a tough reform.
            I agree with you completely. The courts should not depend on the executive branch, and now all judges (except for peace) are appointed by the president, on the proposal of the plenipotentiary (chief state inspector of the region). But the reform of the judicial system is impossible without amending the Constitution. Conclusion a new constitution is needed.
            1. three
              three 25 February 2021 19: 42
              0
              All judges have been buying their seats for a long time, wake up, the price tag is there for everything, starting from the place itself, ending with different options like - "move your folder three positions up." So in everything here - you can want the best and make plans - CORRUPTION will not give. First and foremost, to introduce the death penalty for thieves officials and will have to start with ourselves, is it possible?
              1. Icarus
                Icarus 25 February 2021 20: 30
                +2
                All judges have been buying their seats for a long time
                Nonsense. You are wrong. Look at the origins of judges: children of judges (dynasty); former assistants and secretaries of judges; come from law enforcement agencies (there are almost no lawyers, although they have money). The second and third do not have (with rare exceptions) such incomes to, firstly, bribe the qualification commission, secondly, the chairman of the court (to which the appointment is going), thirdly, the chief state inspector, etc. ... And the problem is not only in the appointment of judges, but also in the influence on them in the process of performing their duties. More often the "payment" goes to take the position of the chairman of the court or to go for a promotion. This is how it works: the chairman of the court has a very great influence on the judges (distributes the most difficult cases to the recalcitrant; deprives of bonuses for violating the terms of the consideration of the case; does not let go on vacation, as provided for in the schedule ..., there are also more clinical ways). And they have influence on the chairman of the court .... who does not (he was smeared when he was appointed to the post?). And the chairman of the court in his diocese, as a rule, is like a foreman in a company. Therefore, the task is, firstly, to significantly reduce to a minimum the powers of the chairman of the court to influence judges, secondly, to preserve the immunity of judges (the existing system of protection of judges justifies itself), and thirdly, after the probationary period, a judge must be appointed to the position for an to be removed only by the qualification collegium of judges or upon reaching the age that gives the right to receive a pension), fourthly, it is necessary to adopt a system for nominating candidates for the position of a judge in order to exclude the influence of the executive power on this process and that lawyers and other lawyers (with the necessary ...) got a real opportunity to occupy the vacant position of a judge. And here lustrate you just need all the chairmen of the courts without exception, the majority of judges in regional courts, in the Supreme Court of Russia - without exception, and in other cases - a personal approach. And, - a new Constitution with a real principle of separation of powers (legislative, executive, judicial), and if it is impossible to really separate the judiciary from the rest of the branches of government, then it is better - a monarchy than the existing "order".
        3. clerk
          clerk 24 February 2021 12: 10
          +3
          ... And then the infrastructure, interest-free loans for the construction of housing, loans for agribusiness, are also interest-free, and of course it is necessary to make sure that the products of villagers can compete with agricultural holdings
          The products of the farmer (kulak, private trader) will always be more expensive than that of a large farm, regardless of the form of ownership. By the way, this was the main reason for Soviet collectivization. Therefore, it is pointless to hope for the revival of the village in terms of demography. It is ineffective to increase the birth rate by material incentives to families (it has been tested many times in different countries) - a spiritual uplift of the population is required, similar to the beginning of Gorbachev's perestroika and the Russian spring of 2014. (but there the effect was short-term) How to achieve such a long-term effect - I personally do not know.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 12: 17
            +11
            Increasing the birth rate by material incentives for families is ineffective (tested many times in different countries)
            According to my observations, in small towns of England, where housing is available, you can still often meet white families with 3-5 children. Availability of quality housing is a key factor.
            1. clerk
              clerk 24 February 2021 12: 35
              +2
              ... According to my observations, in small towns of England, where housing is available, you can still often meet white families with 3-5 children. Availability of quality housing is a key factor.
              There are such families in Russia too, but they do not make the weather - the birth rate in the UK (1,7 in 2019) is slightly higher than in Russia (1,5). Housing affordability is indisputably important, but PHC is secondary. I know many families who can solve the housing problem, but cannot overcome the desire to "live for themselves". Yes, it's even easy to find a suitable groom for an attractive, intelligent and not a beggar daughter. (((
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 12: 41
                +5
                find a suitable groom for an attractive, intelligent and not poor daughter
                Let the VO regi yes But seriously, there won't be enough rich suitors for everyone.
                There are such families in Russia too, but they don't make the weather
                With the massive availability of houses (and not cells in human houses), there will be more such families. And this is quite possible - most of the cost of a house is the cost of land. The cost of land is 100% speculative - it is not made at the plant and there is a lot of it in Russia.
                1. clerk
                  clerk 24 February 2021 13: 28
                  +7
                  ... Let the VO be set to yes But seriously, there won't be enough rich suitors for everyone.
                  On VO there are only old men who have gone crazy laughing ... But seriously, it's not about rich grooms (brides are not poor themselves), but about normal men who want to start a family
                  1. Bolt cutter
                    Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 13: 32
                    +6
                    As far as I know, a rich man is often sought by default to create a family, and they have a large choice. For a simple "hard worker", although a skilled worker can earn money, there are no people who want to. Give everyone in a suit.
                    1. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 24 February 2021 13: 38
                      +7
                      Quote: Bolt Cutter
                      As far as I know, a rich man is often sought by default to create a family, and they have a large choice. For a simple "hard worker", although a skilled worker can earn money, there are no people who want to. Give everyone in a suit.

                      Every man dreams of killing a mammoth.
                      Every woman dreams of a man who has already killed a mammoth laughing
                      1. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 13: 51
                        +10
                        And mammoths were not suckers - they took and died out laughing
                      2. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 24 February 2021 17: 54
                        +3
                        Monetize laughing
                  2. clerk
                    clerk 24 February 2021 15: 35
                    0
                    ... As far as I know, a rich man is often sought by default to create a family, and they have a large choice. For a simple "hard worker", although a skilled worker can earn money, there are no people who want to. Give everyone in a suit.
                    Looking for someone close in education, upbringing and cultural development. The occupation is secondary.
              2. clerk
                clerk 24 February 2021 13: 39
                0
                ... With the massive availability of houses (and not cells in human houses), there will be more such families. And this is quite possible - most of the cost of a house is the cost of land. The cost of land is 100% speculative - it is not made at the plant and there is a lot of it in Russia.
                Many. But she is far away. And if people agree to spend 2 hours on the road to a good job (one way), then there are few people who want to be heated with coal, carry water from a well and go to a cesspool when needed. And if these benefits of civilization reach the site, the cost of the house will jump up to the apartment in the humane house. Vicious circle
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 13: 46
                  +1
                  And if these benefits of civilization are reached to the site, the cost of the house will jump to an apartment in a human house
                  A multi-fuel automatic boiler costs a few thousand dollars in total. For the term of operation, it will come out inexpensively. Although certainly not a freebie.
                  2 hours on the road to a good job
                  This is if we are talking about a metropolis. They also live in small towns. And it's just safer at home.
              3. your1970
                your1970 24 February 2021 23: 33
                +1
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                And this is quite possible - most of the cost of a house is the cost of land.
                -within 10-20 km from any metropolis, yes !! but for 100 km - her red price is 50 for 000 acres, or even with the house together
        4. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 24 February 2021 13: 10
          +6
          Quote: clerk
          It is ineffective to increase the birth rate by material incentives for families (it has been tested many times in different countries) - a spiritual uplift of the population is required, similar to the beginning of Gorbachev's perestroika and the Russian spring of 2014.

          I live in a German village smile all believers. Baptists. There are many children .. from 4 !! laughing and higher. Each yard has 200 or more pigs and many cows. Houses of 2 and 3 floors, like those of new Russians, do not watch TV, they sell everything to each other at prices higher than in the store, but if possible, they buy only from each other! Twice! go to their meetings every day, pray, communicate. Maybe it's Vera? or in general?
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 24 February 2021 13: 43
            +11
            Quote: aybolyt678

            I live in a German village smile all believers. Baptists. There are many children .. from 4 !! laughing and higher. Each yard has 200 or more pigs and many cows. Houses of 2 and 3 floors, like those of new Russians, do not watch TV, they sell everything to each other at prices higher than in the store, but if possible, they buy only from each other! Twice! go to their meetings every day, pray, communicate. Maybe it's Vera? or in general?

            This society has a common idea (religion, ideology) that unites it. And we in Russia eat each other for three kopecks, the national idea is “who doesn’t have a billion, went to tukhes,” and the consensus is the S-400, which has no analogue in the world, and is pingwing.
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 25
              +21
              Quote: Krasnodar
              ... And in Russia we eat each other for three kopecks, the national idea is "who does not have a billion, went to tukhes"

              But how was it before?

              Under the Soviet Union, I traveled all over Belarus, Ukraine, the Urals, the North and never faced negative. Now, the consumer has a different law - if not a wolf, then a source of profit. It's rare to find a sincere attitude.
          2. clerk
            clerk 24 February 2021 13: 48
            +2
            ... Twice! go to their meetings every day, pray, communicate. Maybe it's Vera? or in general?
            Indisputably. But you can close a small village from the world. And even the whole country. But this can postpone the demographic problem, but not fundamentally solve. As soon as a society or country becomes secular and begins to develop economically, the birth rate creeps down. Iran has already been cited as an example. We have the same garbage in the North. The Caucasus.
        5. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 14: 29
          +9
          Quote: clerk
          requires a spiritual uplift of the population similar to the beginning of Gorbachev's perestroika and the Russian spring of 2014.

          What the hell are you talking about ?! What the hell is spiritual uplift, in the absence of funding and the ghostly prospects of a bright future?
          Quote: clerk
          How to achieve such a lasting effect - I personally do not know.

          Yes, you liberals only know how to rob the people, and then according to the spiritless Western patterns crookedly sawn in a staple manner. Because there is no own mind and there was not. But arrogance and self-confidence to heaven.
          1. clerk
            clerk 24 February 2021 14: 40
            -2
            ... What the hell are you talking about ?! What the hell is the spiritual uplift, in the absence of funding and ghostly prospects for a brighter future?
            .
            ... Yes, you liberals only know how to rob the people, and then according to the spiritless Western patterns crookedly sawn in a staple manner. Because there is no own mind and there was not. But arrogance and self-confidence to heaven.
            ... I don't see any point in explaining anything to you for the eighth time. Go on and play tanks; lament that your "spirituality" is not given money, and dream of a socialist revolution for free. You are not capable of more.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 15: 10
              +4
              You do not have enough intelligence to understand the most primitive things, and at the same time you are trying to teach someone else. Actually, as I said, arrogance and self-confidence to heaven with complete incompetence. Come on, you won't tell me, with your complete total curvature, what am I capable of? And save the forum from your stupidity, I'm tired of poking you into it every time.
              1. clerk
                clerk 24 February 2021 15: 20
                -8
                ... you are not smart enough to understand the most primitive things, and at the same time you are trying to teach someone else. Actually, as I said, arrogance and self-confidence to heaven with complete incompetence. Come on, you won't tell me, with your complete total curvature, what am I capable of? And save the forum from your stupidity, I'm tired of poking you into it every time
                ... You are not capable of anything and your empty cries, you are our couch revolutionist, are not interesting to anyone.
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 17: 57
                  +2
                  You tell us the unrecognized genius. Are you feeding your children with spirituality or are you with cutlets?
                  1. clerk
                    clerk 24 February 2021 18: 20
                    -1
                    There you probably don't know that before you feed the children with cutlets, you need to conceive and give birth to children. And in this process, spirituality (feelings, responsibility) plays no less a role than cutlets in the stomach. So go back to your sofa and keep on thinking that the new Stalin will do everything for you.
                    1. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 18: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: clerk
                      There you probably don't know that before you feed the children with cutlets, children must be conceived and given birth.

                      And then, of course, to feed with spirituality according to your advice?
                      laughing
                      Quote: clerk
                      So go back to your sofa and keep on thinking that the new Stalin will do everything for you.

                      Do you know how real communists like me differ from imaginary communists in your inter-ear ganglia? laughing They are not talking the bullshit you attributed to them.
                    2. clerk
                      clerk 24 February 2021 18: 44
                      -3
                      ... Do you know how real communists like me differ from imaginary communists in your inter-ear ganglia? laughing They are not talking about the bullshit you attributed to them.
                      Real communists differed and differ from Internet communoids like you in that their actions are based on reality, and not the wet fantasies of a freeloader.
                    3. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 18: 51
                      0
                      Quote: clerk
                      Real communists differed and differ from Internet communoids like you in that their actions are based on reality, and not the wet fantasies of a freeloader.

                      Freeloader as it turns out we have you. Anyone who wants to get the result of nichrome without doing it. So what about the kids? Maybe it's better to feed them with cutlets? And then, as if from spirituality they are not that. laughing
                    4. clerk
                      clerk 24 February 2021 19: 05
                      0
                      ... then, of course, to feed spirituality according to your advice
                      That is, in fact, you admitted that you sat in a puddle, trying to tie the birth rate to the presence of cutlets. Already good. Now you want to talk about how much does it cost to support children? Okay. First you need to check your adequacy in this matter. How much do you think is a full meal for one adult a day for home cooking?
                    5. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 19: 12
                      +4
                      Quote: clerk
                      That is, in fact, you admitted that you sat in a puddle, trying to tie the birth rate to the presence of cutlets. Already good. Now you want to talk about how much it costs to support children. Okay. First, let's check your adequacy in this matter. How much do you think is a full meal for one adult a day for home cooking?

                      That is, in fact, you are again trying and unable to demagoguery. And absolutely catastrophically you cannot sarcasm. laughing If we feed on spirituality to which the greatest genius of our time and simply an expert in all matters - a clerk, calls us, then it will not cost anything except for such a trifle as life. laughing
                    6. clerk
                      clerk 24 February 2021 19: 16
                      -4
                      ... First, let's check your adequacy in this matter. How much do you think is a full meal for one adult a day for home cooking? ////////// If the greatest genius of our time and simply an expert in all matters is a clerk calls us to feed on spirituality, then it will not cost anything except for such a trifle as life
                      Your adequacy in the discussion of the costs of children has not been confirmed. Crawl away.
                    7. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 19: 42
                      +2
                      All the same, try to feed the children not only with spirituality. They will definitely be grateful to you. Why are you liberal conservatives at all unable to logic?
                    8. clerk
                      clerk 24 February 2021 19: 56
                      -6
                      ... All the same, try to feed the children not only with spirituality. They will definitely be grateful to you. Why are you liberal conservatives at all unable to logic?
                      ... Don't be upset, my friend. Lie down on your favorite sofa, look with loving eyes at the portrait of Karl Marx, dream of a world revolution, take a pill, sleep and let you dream of Comrade Trotsky in an embrace with Lenin and Stalin.
  • your1970
    your1970 24 February 2021 12: 17
    +5
    Quote: Svarog
    Of course, it is necessary to make sure that the products of the villagers can compete with agricultural holdings.

    And Lenin and Stalin considered strictly the opposite ...What only big farmers can feed the country - not fists - lonely farmers ...
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 24 February 2021 13: 04
      +6
      Quote: your1970
      But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country, and not the kulaks, lone individuals.

      And they thought correctly .. It is necessary to revive the collective farms. I'm not talking about kulaks, I'm talking about raising the village. And here any collective form will do.
      1. your1970
        your1970 24 February 2021 13: 16
        +8
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: your1970
        But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country, and not the kulaks, lone individuals.

        And they thought correctly .. It is necessary to revive the collective farms. I'm not talking about kulaks, I'm talking about raising the village. And here any collective form will do.

        You have just opposed an agricultural holding (large producer) to villagers - small producers

        Where are you going to get the population for the collective farms? He's gone ...
        So these are again the same agricultural holdings (5 workers per 100 ha) - just with a different label
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 24 February 2021 13: 25
          +5
          Quote: your1970
          Where are you going to get the population for the collective farms? He's gone ...
          So these are again the same agricultural holdings (5 workers per 100 ha) - just with a different label

          The collective form can be any, let it be a collective farm. On the collective farm, in addition to the agricultural direction, there may be a dozen more. As an example .. wood, casting, raising fish, poultry, berries, mushrooms .. in general, depending on the habitat. You just need an analysis of your own needs and potential imports. To transform this need into the number of necessary villages and collective farms .. Then organize the infrastructure .. and forward.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 21: 45
            0
            Quote: Svarog
            The form of the team can be any

            Today it is the SEC, the tax is 6%, a profitable form, but the fact is that the villagers do not really want to organize themselves, they are dark, illiterate. It is very difficult to organize them, it is possible only if you give them a guaranteed, good sales market. And you can sell anything to the city, from horseradish to jam, we have, for example, go for apples or cherries, roll yourself up, and the rest will rot, because sell for the season is unrealistic.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 32
          +16
          Quote: your1970
          Where are you going to get the population for the collective farms? He's gone ...

          but did
          Quote: your1970
          the same agricultural holdings

          do not use labor?
          1. your1970
            your1970 24 February 2021 22: 04
            +2
            Quote: Silvestr
            Quote: your1970
            Where are you going to get the population for the collective farms? He's gone ...

            but did
            Quote: your1970
            the same agricultural holdings

            do not use labor?
            -
            use ... troubles are:
            - what is it not locals always. It may even be a neighboring area - but not local
            - it is often a watch
            - these people can turn around and leave at any time - regardless of the cows' milkiness
            - holding companies do not need extra people - where the collective farm needed 100 people, 10 people work in the holding
            - the population got used to the watch - went to Moscow / St. Petersburg - watched the kindergarten - for 1,5-2 rubles a day and well. And in agriculture you have to plow from dawn to dawn - and this is not poetic: to plow in the field at +50. ..
            - holdings do not need social networks
            - even the USSR was forced to try to fix the population in the villages by any means.
            - and so on, there are still a lot of problems
        3. yehat2
          yehat2 25 February 2021 14: 44
          +3
          Quote: your1970
          Where are you going to get the population for the collective farms? He's gone ...
          So these are again the same agricultural holdings (5 workers per 100 ha) - just with a different label

          For the development of the village, not the population is needed, but favorable conditions and timely advertising.
          exactly 5 hard workers per 100000 hectares are needed, but these hard workers must be surrounded by infrastructure - from repair shops and financiers who solve all problems with resources, to social networks and banal roads and a scientific segment that provides all technologies and resources like grain. And now we have 5 hard workers who must fight for their survival.
          1. your1970
            your1970 25 February 2021 20: 47
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            Quote: your1970
            Where are you going to get the population for the collective farms? He's gone ...
            So it’s the same again agricultural holdings(5 hard workers per 100 ha) - just with a different label

            For the development of the village, not the population is needed, but favorable conditions and timely advertising.
            exactly 5 hard workers per 100000 hectares are needed, but these hard workers must be surrounded by infrastructure - from repair shops and financiers who solve all problems with resources, to social networks and banal roads and a scientific segment that provides all technologies and resources like grain. And now we have 5 hard workers who must fight for their survival.

            what is it in agricultural holding -workers without resources, workshops, technologies?
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 25 February 2021 21: 51
              +1
              they are commonplace laborers and the one who hired them will squeeze out much more of the results of their labor than he pays.
              1. your1970
                your1970 25 February 2021 22: 16
                0
                Quote: yehat2
                they are commonplace laborers and the one who hired them will squeeze out much more of the results of their labor than he pays.

                But in the USSR it was not so? Soldiers, students, schoolchildren were paid? My wife, for example, in a rural school after the 6th grade never studied in September, the whole school helped the collective farm very much, yeah ...
                As a conscript in SA, I probably collected 20 wagons of potatoes in the Gorky Region, and there was also cabbage, onions, beets ...
          2. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 25 February 2021 22: 20
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            For the development of the village, not the population is needed, but favorable conditions and timely advertising.

            For the development of the village, it is necessary to provide rural residents, not employees of agricultural holdings, they are negligible, a sales market for their products from private household plots. In the Kuban we go to pick apples, cherries, walnuts, cherry plum, etc. and the villager has nowhere to sell them. Dealers give such a price that it is not profitable to do something. And the peasant has nowhere to work.
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 26 February 2021 09: 45
              +2
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              and the villager has nowhere to sell them

              a paradox, but the goods that the Kuban and the Caucasus are growing would be easily torn off in central Russia, even taking into account delivery costs and moderate retail costs.
              In addition, this is all natural, and not solid substitutes that are in stores.
              For example, I really liked the Nalchik lemonade - it's like a Soviet one. And it is inexpensive.
              but in St. Petersburg it is impossible to buy it, only offers to order a bulk consignment by paying in advance. But Chernogolovka lemonade is sold at 4 times more expensive
              Beyond the Urals, there is a huge shortage of quality grain, fresh fruits and their derivatives.
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 09: 56
                0
                Quote: yehat2
                For example, I really liked the Nalchik lemonade - it's like a Soviet one. And it is inexpensive.

                Previously, Ipatievsky (Stavropol) was very good. Such product lines are closed, lose in price, and apparently in unfair competition to large corporations. In our city, the MEZ stopped making excellent halva, the cannery stopped making natural squash caviar, etc.
                Quote: yehat2
                Beyond the Urals, there is a huge shortage of quality grain, fresh fruits and their derivatives.

                Well, our latifundists drive grain to Turkey, where you can sell at a higher price. In terms of fruit, everything is complicated; on an industrial scale, they are no longer grown in the Kuban (compared with the USSR).
                1. yehat2
                  yehat2 26 February 2021 10: 10
                  +2
                  The entire Caucasus is planted with trees and grapes - every piece. In the mountains, they mainly lean on cabbage. They collect SO MUCH that I can't even imagine.
                  I am sure this will be enough to provide 30 million. In the Kuban, too, they can grow a lot. If we effectively dispose of this and a number of other resources, I don’t know whether it is possible to completely cover the needs of the entire country, but it will work out by 70 percent, especially if there is a sane network of vegetable stores and other measures to reduce losses.
                2. aleksejkabanets
                  aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 10: 56
                  0
                  Quote: yehat2
                  In the mountains, they mainly lean on cabbage.

                  In our foothills (Psebay), mainly potatoes are grown, on the plains potatoes grow poorly, the land is not for potatoes.
                  Quote: yehat2
                  They collect SO MUCH that I can't even imagine.
                  I am sure this will be enough to provide 30 million. In the Kuban, too, they can grow a lot. If effective with this and a number of other resources

                  Today large farms do not grow vegetables; grain is new oil for them. Private farms today can grow vegetables only in closed ground (on the plain), after large farms spray the grain, even bees die.
                  Quote: yehat2
                  especially if there is a sane network of vegetable stores and other measures to reduce losses.

                  The state will not do this, big business will be the same.
    2. evgen1221
      evgen1221 24 February 2021 14: 49
      -1
      Krupnyak should and can provide massive cheap goods. But for delights it is already to the private traders and the small producer despised by us.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 34
        +20
        Quote: evgen1221
        Krupnyak must and can provide massive cheap goods.

        but in reality it becomes a monopolist, and monopoly under capitalism
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 21: 17
        +1
        Quote: evgen1221
        Krupnyak should and can provide massive cheap goods. But for delights it is already to the private traders and the small producer despised by us.

        Private households can produce better and cheaper products than we see on the shelves in supermarkets. Of course, there is no non-meat sausage for 100 rubles. they cannot do it, but sausages, for example, made from meat and of good quality, can sell rubles for 350-380 rubles. At least for the Kuban feed prices. Although they are growing now by leaps and bounds.
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 25 February 2021 21: 54
          +2
          product quality is a very serious issue now.
          if it is possible to return it at least within the framework of Soviet guests and within the framework of availability at prices,
          it will be a very big deal - the USSR solved it, not always with the right methods, for many years
          and people stopped appreciating what they have, but now many have realized what they have lost.
          Far from only party cards.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 25 February 2021 22: 29
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            product quality is a very serious issue now.
            if it is possible to return it at least within the framework of Soviet guests and within the framework of availability at prices,

            Right now I am working on this in my region, the products of private household plots are always better, and often cheaper than in stores. Today, with the availability of the Internet, it is not very difficult to create a sales market for the villagers, although questions with logistics certainly remain.
        2. yehat2
          yehat2 26 February 2021 10: 14
          +2
          the problem is that price increases in the networks are such that an ordinary quality product becomes very expensive. In St. Petersburg, shit sausages cost about 280-300 per kg, from non-meat 600-800, I don't see real ones, but I think they cost from 2-3k.
          Chubais said that he was building a market economy, but we have no market. It is closed and divided by monopolies. Nobody will let private household plots trade freely, they will drown with kickbacks and other costs.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 11: 25
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            In St. Petersburg, shit sausages cost about 280-300 per kg, from non-meat 600-800, I don't see real ones, but I think they cost from 2-3k.

            I make sausages for myself, if from chicken, today the cost price will turn out to be about 180 rubles, and from pork - 250 rubles. With roasting in smoke, as expected, according to the technologies of 1937.
            Quote: yehat2
            Nobody will let private household plots trade freely, they will drown with kickbacks and other costs.

            And private household plots do not need to trade through stores and large chains. The owner of a private household can sell any of his products from his yard, without taxes. They can also create an SEC (tax 6%). Now I have made an Internet portal for my city (and neighboring ones), through which any villager can sell his products. The same jam from cherries, for example, or from a mulberry tree can be made by any grandmother, but it cannot be compared with a store jam. It is clear that logistics issues are not simple, but solvable. Anyone who has a desire to do this in their region, I will give the source code and tell you how to work with all this.
            1. yehat2
              yehat2 26 February 2021 11: 34
              +1
              and you can see the address - how is it with you recourse
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 26 February 2021 11: 36
                0
                Quote: yehat2
                and you can see the address - how is it with you

                I'll send it in a personal.
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 30
      +21
      Quote: Svarog
      We need to revive collective farms

      not only collective farms, but everything .. that can plow, sow, grow and harvest. all forms of ownership. And now we have only Miratorg from Medvedeva
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 21: 18
        +1
        Quote: Silvestr
        And now we have only Miratorg from Medvedeva

        Tkachev is still there. Former Minister of Agriculture.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 24 February 2021 22: 14
          +17
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          Tkachev is still there.

          He's an oligarch for tomatoes
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 22: 16
            +2
            Quote: Silvestr
            He's an oligarch for tomatoes

            More pork.
  • gsev
    gsev 24 February 2021 13: 43
    -1
    Quote: your1970
    But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country - and not the kulaks - lone individuals ..

    But it seems that the most fertile time for the Russians was during the NEP. Then there was the highest population growth. And with the beginning of collectivization, famine began. Moreover, it ended only with the beginning of Khrushchev's reforms and the relaxation of private trade ..
    1. clerk
      clerk 24 February 2021 17: 05
      -4
      ... with the beginning of collectivization, famine began. Moreover, it ended only with the beginning of Khrushchev's reforms and the relaxation of private trade.
      You have beguiled something - famine in the cities began in the late 20s, when private traders squeezed bread, and ended in 1948. Khrushchev and Malenkov covered the mass private trade after Stalin's death.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 46
        +14
        Quote: clerk
        You have beguiled something

        The famine in the 20s was based on political and social phenomena taking place in the country (wars, revolutions, etc.). The most famous outbreaks of famine in Russia in the 1921th century - famine in the Volga region of 1922-XNUMX, caused by a prolonged lack of precipitation and complicated by the consequences, can be attributed to such cases of famine.
        Mass famine 1921-1922 (devastation after the Civil War) - the traditional estimate is from 4 to 5 million dead. According to modern estimates, at least 26.5 million people were starving. Similar figures (27-28 million people) were cited in a report at the IX All-Russian Congress of Soviets M.I. Kalini
        The famine in the 30s was connected after the shock grain procurements of the autumn and winter, when not only the "surplus" was taken from the peasants, but also the grain given out according to workdays.
        Quote: clerk
        when private traders squeezed bread,

        But after the selection of grain, the private trader became the first victim of the Holodomor, since everyone was taken away. And then they were resettled and tried. It was so in my family.
        1. clerk
          clerk 24 February 2021 22: 09
          -3
          .
          But after the selection of grain, the private trader became the first victim of the Holodomor, since everyone was taken away. And then they were resettled and tried. It was so in my family.
          This is a perestroika myth. Even in Ukraine, which presents itself as the main victim of the 1932-33 famine, they took no more than 40% of the grown. And the famine began because the peasants rotted 30% of the harvest in the fields.
          1. Overlock
            Overlock 24 February 2021 22: 26
            +12
            Quote: clerk
            And the famine began because the peasants rotted 30% of the harvest in the fields.

            simple question - why?
            1. clerk
              clerk 24 February 2021 22: 40
              -1
              "The remaining is enough for us, and let the city dwellers die" (c)
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 26 February 2021 11: 43
      +1
      Quote: gsev
      But it seems that the most fertile time for the Russians was during the NEP. Then there was the highest population growth. And with the beginning of collectivization, famine began. Moreover, it ended only with the beginning of Khrushchev's reforms and the relaxation of private trade ..

      You have the wrong information.
      NEP essentially changed nothing, except for accelerating inflation
      collectivization raised productivity, but the problem was in the clumsy and violent methods of collectivization on the ground, when they were in a hurry and often the very idea of ​​collectivization was driven to the point of absurdity.
      As a rule, these were former poor people who ended up in power in a specific place, but did not know how to lead and plan - only to command and fight against the "counter-revolution".
      About what went wrong and why Stalin was forced to make a speech about excesses and dizziness about success, there is a lot of information on the internet, but the main thing - the problems were not because of collectivization itself, but because of personnel and the war of kulaks for dictating prices, when the threat of hunger began to threaten many cities and even parts of villages.
      In addition, collectivization has already taken place in all developed capital countries, it was only called, in fact, the growth of monopoly in the countryside. In the United States at that time, there were millions of farm laborers - seasonal workers who did not have land. In Germany, there were communes (!) In almost every village or rural town, where Hitler eventually began to exile even young unmarried girls from the cities, because they were no longer worthy.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 24 February 2021 14: 54
    +2
    But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country - and not the kulaks - lone individuals ...

    And what, did they feed? laughing
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 15: 51
      +3
      Of course not. For example, you died out of the famine.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 24 February 2021 16: 31
        0
        Of course not. For example, you died out of the famine.

        I survived. But there were no one million collective farmers in 1947.
        And people like you showed "Kuban Cossacks". wink
    2. clerk
      clerk 24 February 2021 17: 08
      -3
      ... But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country - and not the kulaks - lone individuals ...
      Yes, they did. After the famine of 1932-33, caused by the sabotage of collectivisation and the famine of 1947 after the termination of aid to the allies against the background of the agricultural totally destroyed by the war, there was no more famine in the USSR.
      1. Doctor
        Doctor 24 February 2021 17: 34
        +3
        Yes, they did. After the famine of 1932-33, caused by the sabotage of collectivisation and the famine of 1947 after the termination of aid to the allies against the background of the agricultural totally destroyed by the war, there was no more famine in the USSR.

        Possible.
        But initially we are talking about which system is better. His own with Svarog for the collective farms.


        Quote: your1970
        But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country, and not the kulaks, lone individuals.

        And they thought correctly .. It is necessary to revive the collective farms. I'm not talking about kulaks, I'm talking about raising the village. And here any collective form will do.
        Reply
        Quote
        A complaint

        But they forget one simple thing.
        During the Soviet era, personal subsidiary plots accounted for about 7% of the total fund of agricultural land.
        In 1940, at the height of the "Stalinist management", on these lands they gave on compulsory government supplies (that is, they also kept it for themselves!)

        30% of all potatoes in the country,
        25% of livestock and poultry meat
        90% eggs
        26% milk
        22% wool

        That is, the collective farmer, in his free time from the collective farm corvee, without equipment, fertilizers and wise agronomists, did the collective farm:

        for potatoes 6 times
        for meat 4,3 times
        in the balls 128 times
        for milk 4,6 times

        And the collective farms, even in the days of Brezhnev, did not learn how to harvest themselves.
        I had to drive the soldiers and students.

        I wonder what the students of Oxford and the soldiers of the 3rd Mechanized Division from Bulford Camp would say if they were offered to work harvesting beets from farmers in Wiltshire? laughing
        1. clerk
          clerk 24 February 2021 18: 08
          -1
          .
          Possible.
          But initially we are talking about which system is better. His own with Svarog for the collective farms.
          ... Smiled. Your dispute with Svarog over collective farms and the argumentation in it at the level of the end of Gorbachev's Perestroika. No offense. In fact, for grain production (which, by the way, is not in your perestroika comparisons of collective farms and individual farmers), it is not the form of ownership that matters, but the size of the farm (it does not matter - the landlord, collective farm, state farm, latifundia, agricultural holding), due to the technological development of agriculture and an increase in productivity labor. Collectivization is just a Soviet form of the process of enlarging farms, which was going on in various forms then all over the world (in the USA, at the same time, small farmers were absorbed by large ones). Growing vegetables, breeding poultry, and partly animal husbandry are still owned by the private owner, but they are also expanding. Therefore, both Svarog's ideas about the revival of collective farms and yours about the bet on the individual farmer are utopias divorced from life. The economy itself has long been regulating the size of the economy, and the form of ownership can be any.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 24 February 2021 19: 10
            +5
            Smiled. Your dispute with Svarog about the collective farms and the argumentation in it at the level of the end of Gorbachev's Perestroika. No offense. In fact, for grain production (which, by the way, is not present in your perestroika comparisons of collective farms and individual farmers), it is not the form of ownership that matters, but the size of the farm (it does not matter - the landlord, collective farm, state farm, latifundia, agricultural holding), due to the technological development of agriculture and an increase in productivity labor. Collectivization is just a Soviet form of the process of enlarging farms, which was going on in various forms then all over the world (in the USA, at the same time, small farmers were absorbed by large ones). Growing vegetables, breeding poultry, and partly animal husbandry are still owned by the private owner, but they are also expanding. Therefore, the ideas of Svarog about the revival of collective farms and yours about the bet on the individual farmer are utopias cut off from life. The economy itself has long been regulating the size of the economy, and the form of ownership can be any.

            Right. Here you are right. A modern agricultural holding also loses to a farmer in terms of profitability.
            Each region has its own optimal size of the land plot, at which the profit will be maximum.

            I will say for what I know - the Rostov region. I regularly visit the local farmers during the harvesting period.
            The optimal size of the land plot is from 300 to 2000 hectares. The ideal is around 800.
            With this amount, the cost of seeds, fuel, and a set of equipment will be minimal.

            Agroholdings such as Miratorg are profitable only due to state grants and cheap loans, to which farmers have no access.
            These are unprofitable offices that enrich only their owners, who take their loot offshore. bully
        2. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 26 February 2021 10: 53
          0
          During the Soviet era, personal subsidiary plots accounted for about 7% of the total fund of agricultural land.
          In 1940, at the height of the "Stalinist management", on these lands they gave on obligatory state supplies (that is, they also kept them for themselves!)
          30% of all potatoes in the country,
          25% of livestock and poultry meat
          90% eggs
          26% milk
          22% wool
          That is, the collective farmer, in his free time from the collective farm corvee, without equipment, fertilizers and wise agronomists, did the collective farm:
          for potatoes 6 times
          for meat 4,3 times
          in the balls 128 times
          for milk 4,6 times

          And what about oilseeds, can you tell me?
          Or technical? Or grain? Or some tobacco? And that, of course, is very clever, to apply the total agricultural area only to certain types of products. I'm not even talking about the fact that to derive the ratio of livestock production through the area of ​​agricultural land ... is very original. This is the first thing. Second, private farms used everything they could from the collective farm property - pastures, meadows, pulled feed and fertilizers, etc. Third, the comparison of forms and methods of production in relation to the selective stage of existence, and not to the entire period, is not objective. Fourth, on a small area per 1m2, more labor costs are required than on a large one, a direct consequence is a high yield. Why this surprises someone, and even more so why it is used as an argument in "Private households against collective farms / state farms" is a mystery to me.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 26 February 2021 12: 15
            0
            Fourth, on a small area per 1m2, more labor costs are required than on a large one, a direct consequence is a high yield. Why this surprises someone, and even more so why it is used as an argument in "Private households against collective farms / state farms" is a mystery to me.

            This is the secret, not the form of ownership.

            When it is his own, the peasant is ready for labor costs, and when the collective farm or agricultural holding is not particularly ready. laughing
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 26 February 2021 14: 19
              0
              This is the secret, not the form of ownership.
              When it is his own, the peasant is ready for labor costs, and when the collective farm or agricultural holding is not particularly

              The willingness of the peasant to "spend labor" is transformed into practical implementation only if his farm is relatively small. Increase the latter by 100 times and the labor costs per square meter will fall for the peasant not 100 times, but 1000 times (the numbers are, of course, conditional, simply reflecting the order). It is on their 25-50 acres, at least every day sons / daughters can send every extra blade of grass, insect or diseased plant by hand to remove. And on the thousands of collective farm hectares cultivated by machines, this is not done, there is the main area. Manure from the collective farm herd will get to the collective farm fields from the collective farm cattle corrals. And when the same herd goes to the pasture every day and on the way does his business, then all this manure was again instructed to collect and carry to the children, where he then went to his personal plot (he personally participated in this as a child). Therefore, their overcrowding was higher than that of collective farm fields. Etc. All of the attributed miracles of effectiveness have very simple explanations. "Yours - not yours" has nothing to do with labor costs per unit area of ​​a small and huge land plot. Each collective farm field, if you are not aware, had an experimental plot with an area of ​​0,01-0,3 ha to determine the biological yield of the variety. This was done for a specific purpose, in order to understand how much yield reserve is in comparison with actually grown and actually harvested. On breeding plots, which are also NOT YOURSELF, the yield of wheat varieties reached 100 c / ha, and on everything else, the same field is NOT YOURS: 30 c / ha. Simply because everything was done by hand on the plot.
              When it is his own, the peasant is ready for labor costs, and when the collective farm or agricultural holding

              when there is an understanding that collective farm = one's own, then all problems (like 1930-31) are not capable of arising in principle. As well as silly conversations like "aha, how's yours, when the state takes a part of it cheaply and even says what to raise?" This I preface the further course of the conversation.
              The communists did not guess to give a hectare instead of 12 hectares, otherwise they would be very surprised.

              Private households of the year under discussion (1940) 25, 50, less often 100 acres. This is 0,25-1 hectares.
              As some are surprised now, how can it be that there are no collective farms, but Russia sells grain and butter with might and main.

              Which are grown on millions of plots of 25-50 acres, yeah.
              Do you know what cows and pigs eat? And where does it grow.

              In the course, on collective farm land in its main volume. Are you completely naive?
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 26 February 2021 14: 28
                0
                The willingness of the peasant to "spend labor" is transformed into practical implementation only if his farm is relatively small. Increase the latter by 100 times and the labor costs per square meter will fall for the peasant not 100 times, but 1000 times (the numbers are, of course, conditional, simply reflecting the order).

                I agree with everything. There is a certain optimal area, depending on the region, crop, level of mechanization, etc.

                In principle, I also agree with the rest, except for this:
                Do you know what cows and pigs eat? And where does it grow.

                In the course, on collective farm land in its main volume. Are you completely naive?

                Risk to drag off in the 40s something for your cow from the collective farm lands. laughing
              2. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 26 February 2021 14: 54
                0
                In principle, I also agree with the rest, except for this:
                Do you know what cows and pigs eat? And where does it grow.
                In the course, on collective farm land in its main volume. Are you completely naive?
                Take the risk of dragging something for your cow from collective farm lands in the 40s

                And I didn't mean the 50s and beyond, when everything dragged on without looking back. In the same 1940, a collective farmer had the right to graze his livestock on collective farm pastures. Moreover, he will absolutely openly receive from the collective farm hay from hayfields, and fodder crops (cereals, cereals, legumes), and pulp and silage, and other wastes from the production of basic products that are used as food for livestock. EVERYTHING produced on the collective farm was distributed over workdays. Including the above.
        3. Doctor
          Doctor 26 February 2021 12: 26
          0
          And what about oilseeds, can you tell me?
          Or technical? Or grain? Or some tobacco?

          The communists did not guess to give a hectare instead of 12 hectares, otherwise they would be very surprised.

          As some are surprised now, how can it be that there are no collective farms, but Russia sells grain and butter with might and main.
        4. Doctor
          Doctor 26 February 2021 12: 28
          0
          I'm not even talking about the fact that to derive the ratio of livestock production through the area of ​​agricultural land ... is very original.

          Do you know what cows and pigs eat? And where does it grow.
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 26 February 2021 12: 08
        +1
        Quote: Arzt
        That is, the collective farmer, in his free time from the collective farm corvee, without equipment, fertilizers and wise agronomists, did the collective farm:

        firstly, workdays are not corvee, they were paid
        secondly, it is a lie about the fact that the collective farmers did not use their collective farm resources.
        My grandfather was the chairman of the collective farm, I know firsthand.
        thirdly, collectivization never affected 100% and not everyone was on the farm.
        And the last thing. As a rule, collective farmers closed their workdays for a week per day and worked for themselves most of the time.
        Well, as a "trifle", private traders exploited the infrastructure supported by collective farms and the state - repair shops, roads, elevators, seed stocks, schools, etc. and taxes were symbolic. Otherwise, one cannot understand how a collective farmer could use his savings to buy a combat aircraft or a tank for the army, which even now is beyond the reach of many.
        and the last one. Finally, read what Stalin thought and planned, and do not tell stories.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 26 February 2021 13: 08
          0
          firstly, workdays are not corvee, they were paid
          secondly, it is a lie about the fact that the collective farmers did not use their collective farm resources.
          My grandfather was the chairman of the collective farm, I know firsthand.
          thirdly, collectivization never affected 100% and not everyone was on the farm.
          And the last thing. As a rule, collective farmers closed their workdays for a week per day and worked for themselves most of the time.
          Well, as a "trifle", private traders exploited the infrastructure supported by collective farms and the state - repair shops, roads, elevators, seed stocks, schools, etc. and taxes were symbolic. Otherwise, one cannot understand how a collective farmer could use his savings to buy a combat aircraft or a tank for the army, which even now is beyond the reach of many.
          and the last one. Finally, read what Stalin thought and planned, and do not tell stories.

          Life has become better, life has become happier! laughing

          Natural rent (except cash tax!) For the yard in 1940 and 1948.

          Meat 32-45 kilograms of meat (individual farmers - from 62 to 90 kilograms) / 40-60
          Milk 180-200 liters / 280-300 liters per year.
          In addition, annually from 30 to 150 chicken eggs.

          Taxes:
          Agricultural tax - 30 rubles per year. In 1947 it quadrupled.
          A cool detail - in addition to the tax on products that were paid to them on the collective farm for workdays, the tax was taken from these payments themselves, so double taxation was obtained.

          Animal taxes. Everyone. From chickens to cows.

          For example, in Komi, a collective farmer gave the Stalinist state a tax per cow in the amount of 198 rubles. He earned money, as you correctly noted, during workdays.
          The average cash income from workdays in the republic per farm in the same year was 1 rubles. Thus, the peasant paid up to 373,59% from his average collective farm "pay" only for a cow.

          IT'S ALL WITH LPH, EXCEPT WORK IN THE KOLKHOZ!

          Add the tax on childlessness, in 1949 150 rubles a year, having one child - 50 rubles, two children - 25 rubles a year. (The secret of Stalinist reproduction wink ).

          No passports, nowhere to run, if only in a loop.

          In short - a classic slave-owning society, the landowner Troyekurov is resting! wink

          https://www.booksite.ru/forest/forest/hoz/2.htm
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 26 February 2021 13: 28
            +1
            Quote: Arzt
            https://www.booksite.ru/forest/forest/hoz/2.htm

            well, how sweet in the hell you described is that you did not say
            1. it was one of the most difficult post-war periods.
            difficult not because the shovels of the hands, but because the United States imposed an arms race and threatened a total nuclear bombing of the country, and the country, which had just won back almost 6 years and had to cope with the destroyed European part.
            2. I was not too lazy and read, according to the link you indicated, it is written in black on yellow that the peasants who worked on collective farms or other procurements were RELEASED from taxes if their own farm did not exceed the norms from the charter of the agricultural cartel. The same garbage with workers who have a farm - they were either freed or the tax was taken much less.
            and in general, what you have written needs a strong correction from your own source, because there are critical omissions ..
            It's the same when in an essay about the life of a great man you would write one line - he died without mentioning anything else.
            Well, and the last silence - how much the products cost on the market then due to the shortage.
            Even with those taxes, the individual farmers could quite well reduce their budget.

            can you stop and not bear the cheap manipulation of information?
            no one denies that there were problems, but you distort the causes and context of their occurrence and
            inciting people to incorrect conclusions.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 26 February 2021 13: 43
              0
              well, how sweet in the hell you described is that you did not say
              1. it was one of the most difficult post-war periods.

              Did I just write about the post-war? there is a comparison with 1940.

              Want to pre-war, read living witnesses. It doesn't look like heaven. laughing

              Russian peasants recall life under Stalin

              .... I, of course, can tell you about what you, dear, ask. But won't they? After all, I will begin to speak differently from the way it is written in the books ...

              ... It seems to me that all our life we ​​have only worked. And there is nothing to remember! And they ate poorly: grass and all kinds of forage.

              ... put on canvas clothes. This is a kind of fabric that looks like bags. Mom made clothes for us from such a canvas. We have worn for a long time what will sew.
              Shoes - canvas: they were sewn from mine conveyor belts. Galoshes appeared on sale later. They wore them on bare feet.

              ... How did taxes press us? Just awful! Give back wool, meat, eggs, milk - give everything. And they didn't pay us anything for it. They kept livestock on the farm because, where you knit what sock, where you roll up your felt boots ... We twisted. You have your own, but don't you dare use it! It was impossible to escape taxes and collective farms. The collective farmers did not have passports.

              ... I don't know what to say about Stalin. When he died in 1953, people even cried. When I heard about his death on the radio, I felt so sorry. Why dont know. Maybe because he worked for a long time. Maybe because our ruler. Or maybe a force of habit.

              ... Eh! A life! You, my dear, disturbed you with your questions ... You live, you don't think, everything seems to be the way it should be. And as you remember! ... All the time work, work, work and nothing to remember! When they worked more before the war or during - I don't know. You leave at five in the morning and return at twelve. That's all the memories. God forbid such a life to anyone!


              https://historical-fact.livejournal.com/17603.html
            2. yehat2
              yehat2 26 February 2021 13: 59
              +1
              Quote: Arzt
              https://historical-fact.livejournal.com/17603.html

              how annoyed me. Do you have a special filter for the most negative links? Yes, what she says seems to be true. But again you threw out the context.
              1. How they lived before the revolution
              2. What has changed with the revolution and the arrival of Kolchak (and they had a full w. Until 21-22 and no one promised to fix it with lightning speed)
              3. You should remember the Omsk case, just as a result of a personal audit by Stalin in 28. I want to emphasize that Stalin very rarely left the capital, but went there.
              4. How the region has changed from 28 to 34. (for only 6 years)
              And the last thing - Omsk is a very harsh land. I have lived close to 30 years and I know from myself.
              This is very different from Ukraine or the Caucasus or even Shushenskoye, where Lenin was exiled.
              There people essentially lived by hunting and gathering, and not by agriculture.
            3. Doctor
              Doctor 26 February 2021 14: 11
              0
              how annoyed me. Do you have a special filter for the most negative links? Yes, what she says seems to be true. But again you threw out the context.
              1. How they lived before the revolution

              Why negative? There is also a positive. In the same place - before the revolution. laughing

              Mom kept 2 horses, 3 cows, 12 sheep, 12 geese, 50 chickens, 4 pigs. She plowed herself. We had 16 acres of land. Those who have 2-3 cows, 2-3 horses are the poorest and were considered. The rich are those who had 10-15 horses. And those who had 50-70 horses and cows each, had a loan (this is like a current dacha), workers were considered fists. Siberians are strong and prosperous people. In the neighboring village of Beloglazovo, for example, you will not go into any hut. Everyone has real homes ...

              She does not remember about Kolchak, and then it was like this:
              4. How the region has changed from 28 to 34. (for only 6 years)


              ... Each family had its own room in the barracks ... But in 1931 our commune was defeated and transferred to a collective farm. The commune was rich. We came to the commune ourselves, and to the collective farm by force: some were crushed by taxes, and some were dispossessed. We immediately began to live worse. How could it be otherwise? Is it possible to live above the abyss ?! The cattle died. It was said that it was the fists who had inflicted damage on her. The bosses immediately began to steal. We need to feed the collective farm cattle, but there is no hay. Let us follow the authorities. Yes, what was there to follow! The chairman stole our hay and sold it. He was a visitor.

              ... He ruined everything. He killed both cattle and people. Then many people died of hunger. You used to go to our former communard barrack, and there people lay there with whole families and die. My second husband and I could not stand it. They left in 1935 and went to the Iskitim brick factory. Alive, thank God, remained! Our entire collective farm ran away. But it was impossible to leave the collective farm. They didn’t give passports. You can, if you recruit, the recruited with the help were given a passport for a year. Then recruiters traveled to the villages. I remember that they did not promise either a salary or housing in a new place. Only work. But we were glad of that too. Just to break free. We have worked for three years in bondage. It was a hard life! I have never seen an easy life in my years ... "
              [i] [/ i] lol
            4. yehat2
              yehat2 26 February 2021 14: 49
              +1
              Quote: Arzt
              She does not remember about Kolchak

              She suddenly forgot a lot of things, because all of your links are suspicious of the mass wave of information negativity that hit the USSR in the post-perestroika years.
              My grandfather also had 2 grandmothers in the village, who said that life was good under the tsar.
              One of the kulak family, the other of the landowner's servant.
              The rest, for some mystical reason, had a different opinion.
            5. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 26 February 2021 15: 31
              0
              I really liked the causal relationships in the text on the links. For example such
              When the collective farms were made, various epidemics began: measles, tuberculosis.
            6. yehat2
              yehat2 26 February 2021 16: 13
              +1
              well, yes, there was no war and civil war, there were only terrible collective farms
              but here's what I know for sure - tuberculosis and measles won only in the USSR
            7. Doctor
              Doctor 26 February 2021 18: 18
              0
              well, yes, there was no war and civil war, there were only terrible collective farms
              but here's what I know for sure - tuberculosis and measles won only in the USSR

              I'll clarify - in the late USSR. Khrushchev-Brezhnev. When, according to the Stalinists, liberalism raised its head. laughing
            8. yehat2
              yehat2 26 February 2021 20: 58
              +1
              liberalism is a bad term.
              I would divide people into those who understood the theory of socialism and were its supporters and everyone else. After Stalin's death, the party was overwhelmed by a muddy stream of people who did not understand socialist and Marxist theory, and since they all managed to live with capital, then they simply began to restore it in various forms, where there was very little room for liberalism. But a lot for fascism, chauvinism, exploitation, etc. by the list.
        2. Doctor
          Doctor 26 February 2021 18: 16
          0
          I really liked the causal relationships in the text on the links. For example such

          The connection is direct.
          As soon as a person starts to eat well and regularly, for example in prison, tuberculosis immediately comes. laughing
        3. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 1 March 2021 08: 46
          0
          Link curve. Or, in that case, you should have had tuberculosis epidemics throughout the entire existence of collective farms. Let's leave the "officers' daughters" alone and look at the medical reports.


          Either you had very bad food in 1913, or your "direct" connection is still a curve.
        4. Doctor
          Doctor 1 March 2021 09: 15
          -1
          Link curve. Or, in that case, you should have had tuberculosis epidemics throughout the entire existence of collective farms. Let's leave the "officers' daughters" alone and look at the medical reports.

          It is about a specific situation in a specific period of time (famine of the 30s).

          I recognize the success of the USSR in providing medical care to the population (as well as the whole world), including in the fight against tuberculosis. I also do not deny the positive role of Stalin personally in these successes. love
        5. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 1 March 2021 11: 10
          0
          It is about a specific situation in a specific period of time (famine of the 30s).

          Let me remind you that this is not about hunger 32-33, but about causal relationships and ways of presenting information:
          When the collective farms were made, various epidemics began: measles, tuberculosis.

          Oral history Lopatin ... what to take from her.
        6. Doctor
          Doctor 1 March 2021 11: 22
          0
          Let me remind you that this is not about hunger 32-33, but about causal relationships and ways of presenting information:

          Tuberculosis is a socially dependent disease.
          Poor nutrition, unfavorable social and environmental living conditions are risk factors.

          The relationship between the incidence of hip disease and hunger is direct.
          But the storyteller, of course, aggravates. Measles is not in business, for her that period is bad in everything, she collected all the horror films. fellow
  • Doctor
    Doctor 26 February 2021 18: 12
    0
    She suddenly forgot a lot of things, because all of your links are suspicious of the mass wave of information negativity that hit the USSR in the post-perestroika years.

    Well, read not post-perestroika, but contemporaries. And not memoirs, but official documents about how fugitive peasants were caught.
    Fugitives not from the master, as you might think, but from the paradise Stalinist village laughing

    A note on a direct wire by the assistant to the plenipotentiary representative of the OGPU for the Lower Volga region I.Ya. Dagin to the Deputy Chairman of the OGPU USSR G.G. Yagoda1 on the struggle of the OGPU organs with the departure of the peasants.


    I can cite a dozen more, but it makes no sense. You yourself know everything. recourse
  • The comment was deleted.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 28
    +17
    Quote: your1970
    But Lenin and Stalin believed strictly the opposite ... That only large agricultural producers can feed the country - and not the kulaks - lone individuals ...

    The truth is usually somewhere in between. Extremes of opinion are very dangerous. It's like a pendulum
  • BAI
    BAI 24 February 2021 12: 20
    +10
    And the birth rate must also be increased. Only with the development of the village is it possible in my opinion.

    There will be no quantitative development of the village. The number of rural residents will steadily decline. This is a historical inevitability. You don't need as many hands in the countryside as before. With the further industrialization of society, cities will grow and the rural population will shrink. Even provided that social and cultural life there will be brought up to the city level. There is no economic need for a large rural population. This is the payment for the economic development of the country.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 24 February 2021 13: 06
      +6
      Quote: BAI
      There will be no quantitative development of the village. The number of rural residents will steadily decline. This is a historical inevitability.

      You want to say, if the income of a collective farmer is 100 tons, and the income of an office manager is 50 ... then people in the countryside will not live? Where there is all the infrastructure, roads, hospitals, schools, gas .. plus clean air, nature, clean water .. I would go without hesitation. Conditions need to be created.
      1. BAI
        BAI 24 February 2021 13: 20
        +7
        Is there enough work for everyone for 100?
        The point is that there is no work at all. One tractor driver copes with what tens, if not hundreds, of people used to do. You don't need so many people in the village. Physically.
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 24 February 2021 13: 31
          +3
          Quote: BAI
          Is there enough work for everyone for 100?

          Of course, a preliminary calculation is needed .. but there will be enough work for everyone .. We do not even have our own broiler eggs in sufficient quantities for ourselves .. not to mention export .. We need to see what we export and replace it completely with our own. Nearby the billion-dollar China, where the salary is already twice as high as ours .. that there is nothing to sell there? Post-Soviet countries .. in general, a lot of work needs to be done to get something off the ground, but naturally no one will do this work.
          1. clerk
            clerk 24 February 2021 14: 33
            0
            You
            ... We do not even have our own broiler eggs in sufficient quantities, for ourselves ... not to mention export .. We need to see what we export and completely replace it with our own. Nearby the billion-dollar China, where the salary is already twice as high as ours .. that there is nothing to sell there?
            It looks like you have confused export with import.
          2. your1970
            your1970 24 February 2021 16: 47
            +4
            Quote: Svarog
            Of course, a preliminary calculation is needed .. but there is enough work for everyone .. We do not even have our own broiler eggs in sufficient quantities, for ourselves

            Well, let it be yours ... Let's add eggs to the current cost price - the salary of 15-20-30 workers with your 100 salary.
            Automatically, the cost of chicken raised from this egg will rise in price. From here, your 100 zp will automatically decrease in commodity equivalent, in kg of the same chicken. And so on in a circle - each production cycle. And in a couple of years, you will be totally unhappy with a 000 salary ....
          3. Vadim237
            Vadim237 24 February 2021 16: 54
            +1
            Yes, yes, yes - to replace everything with our own in the USSR and even today's China does not have such a thing now we produce what and what they order and buy from us above the head of all customers who choose what and how much to buy, you do not jump.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 51
          +18
          Quote: BAI
          One tractor driver copes with what tens, if not hundreds of people used to do. You don't need so many people in the village. Physically.

          you exaggerate.


          It's a simple different LIFESTYLE
        3. yehat2
          yehat2 26 February 2021 14: 43
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          Is there enough work for everyone for 100?
          The point is that there is no work at all

          and what, it is necessary to design an airplane in a stinking reinforced concrete corner inside the ring road?
          Or does the financial plan of the ministry have to be done in the MSC, but in Krasnodar or in a village near Novosibirsk it is fundamentally impossible?
          Or is it necessary to draw an advertising poster on the 50th floor of a skyscraper in Moscow City, but in a normal 1-storey country house nothing looms ??
          in my opinion the myth about the lack of work in the countryside is ridiculous.
          By comparison, most of the USSR's initial nuclear program was planned and tackled from a few rural cottages.
      2. clerk
        clerk 24 February 2021 13: 20
        +2
        It is cheaper to simply pay extra money to Russian families for 2-3-4 and further children. It is only necessary to legally resolve the issue of separating Russians, so as not to run into accusations of racism / nationalism, If only through subsidies to the subjects of the federation ...
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 24 February 2021 15: 05
          +3
          Quote: clerk
          so as not to run into accusations of racism / nationalism

          Accept, with the slightest amendments, the migration policy of the countries of the Middle East. This is at least.
          1. clerk
            clerk 24 February 2021 15: 24
            +1
            ... Accept, with the slightest amendments, the migration policy of the countries of the Middle East. This is at least.
            ... It will not work due to the difference in scale and political system.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 24 February 2021 15: 44
              +2
              The scale has nothing to do with, but I agree with the political system, or rather with its inferiority
              1. clerk
                clerk 24 February 2021 17: 20
                +2
                ... The scale has nothing to do with, but I agree with the political system, or rather with its inferiority
                Do you like the political system of the Middle East monarchies better?
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 24 February 2021 18: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: clerk
                  Do you like the political system of the Middle East monarchies better?

                  There is no need to exaggerate and generalize - I said directly what I like with them.
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 15: 58
          0
          You decide there already. How are you going to correct the demography. Spirituality or money.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 24 February 2021 16: 57
            +1
            Spirituality will not work - and money can only be the problem of so much money from the state in the coming years.
          2. clerk
            clerk 24 February 2021 17: 28
            -2
            ... You decide there already. How are you going to correct the demography. Spirituality or money.
            ... First read the beginning of the discussion about money - maybe you will understand. Then tell me what you (did not) understand and then, so be it I will try to explain to you for the 9th time.
      3. your1970
        your1970 24 February 2021 13: 23
        +6
        Quote: Svarog
        Conditions need to be created.

        Who will create them? Where can I find the pioneers?
        Quote: Svarog
        I would go without hesitation
        - come, the conditions you listed are all ...
        Only now nobody wants to troubleshoot and work in all this splendor ...
        50000 - sitting in a warm office with a normalized day or 100 - in our sun at +000 all daylight hours ...
        I guarantee you, you will run away in a month ...
        Z.Y brick houses built in the 80s, gasified, with water, baths / garages, asphalt and other
        - we have 100 in our villages ... no more ...
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 24 February 2021 13: 32
          +2
          Quote: your1970
          - come, the conditions you listed are all ...

          Where is this miracle? And why no one knows about him ... at least for the first time I hear that there are villages with a worker's salary of 100 tons rubles .. Do not write nonsense, if this were the case, half of the country would have rushed to your village ..
          1. your1970
            your1970 24 February 2021 13: 55
            +3
            Quote: Svarog
            .. at least for the first time I hear that there are villages with a worker's salary of 100 t rubles ..

            Oh, you also need a salary of 100 for housing? Sorry, there is such work, but 000-3 hired tractor drivers who come to the sowing and harvesting area ... And then they leave back to the city ... Because no one will pay them anything in the off-season ..

            And in the days of the USSR, they paid the minimum wage on state farms in winter, and on collective farms in a lean year, they could pay the minimum wage all year round.
            Agriculture is like that - today there is, but in the next three years - a crop failure ...

            And yet, your 100 will automatically be included in the cost of production, yeah ...
            Toto the working class will rise
    2. yehat2
      yehat2 26 February 2021 14: 07
      +1
      Quote: BAI
      There is no economic need for a large rural population. This is the payment for the economic development of the country.

      but there is no need to evict everyone from villages and villages
      and now the conditions are such that everyone is fleeing from there.
      Therefore, I disagree with your thesis about the fee. No, this is a payment to the rich - the village supplies an army of beggar farm laborers, like under the tsar, and this makes everyone worse, except for a handful of bourgeoisie.
      And the population in the countryside is needed and large, at least as a source of the gene pool and a healthy population
  • FIR FIR
    FIR FIR 24 February 2021 15: 49
    +5
    Quote: Svarog
    Only with the development of the village is it possible in my opinion.

    The village is on the edge. Another twenty years and there will be nothing to develop there - a desert.
    Quote: Svarog
    so that the products of the villagers could compete with agricultural holdings.

    This is basically unrealistic.
    A piece goods have always had and will have a higher cost price.
    Quote: Svarog
    I would also add about the most important problem of Russia-demography .. do not care there like the others .. but for us this is an overriding problem.

    And really important. So they solve it, with all their might. In the country of towers, pipelines and quarries, one and a half hundred million people are not needed at all.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 12
    +16
    Quote: Svarog
    It is necessary to completely revise the results of the optimization of medicine and punish those responsible for what is happening now.
    Volodya! Don't fantasize! Who will do it?


    They?
  • Alexander I
    Alexander I 24 February 2021 15: 09
    0
    Yes, to hell with him, even if they think of the pocket, maybe then the thought will come about the integrity of this pocket. And without the loyalty of the people to the khan's pocket.
  • Destiny
    Destiny 24 February 2021 10: 12
    +15
    Quote: Svarog
    Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

    First, you need to abandon the advisers face of the IMF, WB, EBRD. And their Russian henchmen like the Higher School of Economics and the RANEPA. Secondly, full control over the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance. The new composition of the State Duma to cancel the pension reform, which drastically undermined the people's trust in the supreme power. Return the retirement age to the previous standards. Stop export of capital.

    Yes, the advice is correct, I agree. The government would have listened to them, but I can't believe it.
    1. Civil
      Civil 24 February 2021 10: 28
      +14
      What should Russia do when "the refrigerator wins the TV"

      Forbid refrigerators while disgruntled in camps. Joke.
      But seriously:
      For the implementation of all of the above slogans, the answer is one -No money left
      The foundation of all measures is full sovereignty from the West (and not partial, as it is now), social justice, the good of the people and the state.

      Yeah, like the DPRK or like Romania during the Ceausescu era ...

      The capitalist country of the third world (in terms of income and life expectancy), which is now Russia, will not shake up resources to the West. Almost a hundred countries have lived like this for centuries and nothing.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 24 February 2021 10: 45
        +3
        Quote: Civil
        and dissatisfied in the camps. Joke.

        For every prisoner a couple of years ago, 30 thousand a month were spent. There is not enough money for the dissatisfied.
        1. Civil
          Civil 24 February 2021 10: 50
          +3
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          For each prisoner, a couple of years ago, 30 thousand were spent. There is not enough money for the dissatisfied.

          But the rest will plow for the minimum wage. All the same it turns out profitable.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 24 February 2021 10: 53
            +1
            Quote: Civil
            But the rest will plow for the minimum wage. All the same it turns out profitable.

            Will they be happy?
            1. Civil
              Civil 24 February 2021 10: 58
              +7
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Will they be happy?

              Here recently the dissatisfied rallied. And the rest 99% watched TV.
              So they will continue to look. There is no reason to lift your head from the stall. Eating food will eat, no food means lack of food. It happens.
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 52
            +16
            Quote: Civil
            But the rest will plow for the minimum wage. All the same it turns out profitable.

            or take the pitchfork
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 26 February 2021 14: 38
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        a hundred countries have lived like this for centuries and nothing.

        but we did not live like that and we lived much better.
        Why should we sacrifice our quality of life and future to please a bunch of villains?
    2. dorz
      dorz 24 February 2021 10: 28
      +8
      Conservatism is good ...

      We have liberalism in all its glory. The main problem is a lot of theorists and a lack of practitioners.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 24 February 2021 15: 03
        +6
        Practitioners are seated on the way. There are plenty of examples.
    3. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 10: 28
      +15
      Quote: Destiny
      Yes, the advice is correct, I agree. The government would have listened to them, but I can't believe it.

      They will not listen, they will continue to "tighten the nuts". No "left turn" is possible in principle under the current state structure. But where this policy will lead, the question remains open.
      1. New Year day
        New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 56
        +18
        Quote: aleksejkabanets
        But where this policy will lead, the question remains open.

        just everything is clear - the thread will rip. No wonder Putin promised to think about food certificates (cards)

        Development goes in a spiral .. down
        1. Aag
          Aag 25 February 2021 15: 12
          0
          "... Development is spiraling .. down .."
          Corkscrew?
  • rocket757
    rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 18
    0
    Advice ... interesting and the question is correct, WHO will it want to do?
    Is there an answer to it?
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 19
      -4
      What to do

      Return the USSR! And it would not be bad with Stalin at the head!
      1. Flamberg
        Flamberg 24 February 2021 10: 23
        +3
        And after Stalin? Will it all rot and fall apart again?
        1. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 25
          0
          Quote: Flamberg
          And after Stalin? Will it all rot and fall apart again?

          And after Stalin, do not allow the Khrushchevs, Gorbachevs and Yeltsins to come to power yes !
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 24 February 2021 10: 27
            +6
            And who will not allow them? You, as well as the author, seem to write the correct words, but do not even think about how? Who? and on what money will all this be realized ...
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 24 February 2021 10: 31
              +5
              The answers to your questions are given by the classics. Don't be lazy to read. Will not allow - truly popular and party democracy, the rule of the people, so persistently introduced by Comrade Stalin. Yes, it didn't work at a critical moment, but there were absolutely objective reasons for that. More than once figured out. And our business - with the revival of Soviet power, relying on the experience of grandfathers - not to step on the same rake a second time.
            2. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 33
              -3
              Quote: Flamberg
              And who will not allow them? You, as well as the author, seem to write the correct words, but do not even think about how? Who? and on what money will all this be realized ...

              Then let's put the question differently: who will be able to embody all the wishes of the author? The answer is obvious - only such a person as Stalin! And now it is not there, so all the questions of the author look like a utopia.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. BAI
                BAI 24 February 2021 12: 25
                +1
                Then let's put the question differently: who will be able to embody all the wishes of the author? The answer is obvious - only such a person as Stalin!

                Not. Deng Xiao Ping (or Deng Xiaoping - it doesn't matter).
              3. New Year day
                New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 00
                +17
                Quote: СРЦ П-15
                Then let's put the question differently: who will be able to embody all the wishes of the author? The answer is obvious - only such a person as Stalin!

                well no! A simple real patriot of the country, who puts the interests of the country above his personal and the interests of his and his friends.
            3. Lannan Shi
              Lannan Shi 24 February 2021 11: 31
              +14
              Quote: Flamberg
              Who? and on what money will all this be realized ...

              There is too much money in the country. Direct capital outflows have long exceeded $ 1 trillion. Those. the question is not that "there is no money", but that those who want to spend / invest them, in
              within Russia, they have no money. But those who have goals - the purchase of German yachts, and the Caribbean islands - have money. Simply put, the system built in the camp does not provide for the development of Russia by default.
              And in general. Coeff ginny has grown to the point where delamination riots are stupidly inevitable.
              But who .... Definitely not those who are now at the helm. They are mere servants to the interests of corporations. Actors are salaried, and nothing more.
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 04
                -5
                There is too much money in the country. The place is in Russia, show where the money is surplus. Direct capital outflows have long exceeded $ 1 trillion - as much comes from investors and leaves in all countries of the world like that.
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 29
            +3
            This is a rake that is stepped on again and again!
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 39
              0
              Quote: rocket757
              This is a rake that is stepped on again and again!

              And Stalin skillfully removed this rake! (Unfortunately, I "stumbled" on the last rake.)
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 24 February 2021 11: 00
                +3
                All people make mistakes ... how critical this turns out to be, only time can tell.
          3. Gardamir
            Gardamir 24 February 2021 12: 39
            +1
            And after Stalin, do not allow the Khrushchevs, Gorbachevs and Yeltsins to come to power
            How do you distinguish them. The new Stalin will be called a State Department official and a bully, because he is against Khrushchev, who is now sitting in the Kremlin.
          4. New Year day
            New Year day 24 February 2021 20: 57
            +14
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            And after Stalin, do not allow the Khrushchevs, Gorbachevs and Yeltsins to come to power

            What is it like? After all, they are the product of Stalin
        2. tatra
          tatra 24 February 2021 10: 55
          +7
          Yes, according to the cowardly ideology of the enemies of the communists, cowardly trying to pretend that you yourself are not there, and there is nothing that you have done with your country and people during the Soviet period and after you captured the USSR, countries can fall apart by themselves, because they have rotted, and socio-economic systems can change by themselves, without the participation of people.
      2. rocket757
        rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 28
        +2
        Not possible, for objective reasons.
        1. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 37
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          Not possible, for objective reasons.

          Well, for objective reasons, there is no correct answer to all the questions asked by the author. yes
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 51
            +1
            The reasons, of course, are objective, but if you do not move yourself, do not try to make the necessary changes, correct the situation, there will be no sense.
      3. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 10: 31
        +9
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        Return the USSR! And it would not be bad with Stalin at the head!

        You cannot "enter the same river twice". It is necessary to build something new, relying on the past positive experience.
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 24 February 2021 10: 34
          +3
          At the same time - in no way forgetting the negative. Not that - let's repeat the fate of the USSR 1.0
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 06
            -3
            The planned economy for 5 five years ahead and the distribution system was the most important disadvantage of the USSR.
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 24 February 2021 17: 20
              +3
              Uh-huh. That’s why it is clear that the Soviet planning system was stolen by many bourgeoisie. In fact, China is also developing very successfully within five-year plans.
        2. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 35
          +3
          Quote: aleksejkabanets
          You cannot "enter the same river twice". It is necessary to build something new, relying on the past positive experience.

          It takes a personality to build this new thing. Do you have one in mind?
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 10: 42
            +13
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            It takes a personality to build this new thing. Do you have one in mind?

            People give birth to personalities. You don't need to "look for a leader", you need to look for a movement that is close to you in spirit. Only a party (movement), relying on the people, is capable of changing something. Look at Platoshkin, he is sitting, but there is practically no movement, because it was based only on the personality of one person.
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 24 February 2021 10: 54
              +2
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Only a party (movement), relying on the people, is capable of changing something.

              That, I see, the Communist Party, when it actually won the election against Yeltsin, was able to change something!
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 11: 03
                +2
                Quote: СРЦ П-15
                That, I see, the Communist Party, when it actually won the election against Yeltsin, was able to change something!

                Do you remember that time well? I am not making excuses for Zyuganov for that drain, but I must admit that there were objective reasons for that. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation today is very heterogeneous, there are also healthy forces there. In addition, there are other parties (movements) that are more revolutionary.
              2. Overlock
                Overlock 24 February 2021 22: 30
                +15
                Quote: СРЦ П-15
                That, I see, the Communist Party, when it actually won the election against Yeltsin, was able to change something!

                Maybe because Zyuganov traded this opportunity for personal well-being?
          2. 2 Level Advisor
            2 Level Advisor 24 February 2021 11: 03
            +5
            Imagine that Stalin appeared today, how many days will he live by starting to revise the results of privatization, etc.? the point is in the system, the party and the support on which the Leader can rely .. without the CPSU (b), Stalin himself as a person would not have pulled out the country .. this is beyond the strength of one person, even someone like him ..
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 24 February 2021 11: 12
              0
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              Imagine that Stalin appeared today, how many days will he live by starting to revise the results of privatization, etc.?

              And how many years, not days, did Stalin live, having spent dispossession and collectivization?
              1. 2 Level Advisor
                2 Level Advisor 24 February 2021 11: 55
                +1
                when he began to do this there was already VKPb - a party of like-minded people .. today who is in this place, the EP? do not confuse the dispossession of peasants and the return to the state budget of billions and huge factories .. nevertheless, somewhat different money and people .. this is closer to the Revolution, and he did not organize the Revolution alone, although he took an active part .. and Lenin just because of the organization Revolution and eventually died ..
              2. your1970
                your1970 24 February 2021 12: 26
                +2
                Quote: SRC P-15
                Quote: Level 2 Advisor
                Imagine that Stalin appeared today, how many days will he live by starting to revise the results of privatization, etc.?

                And how many years, not days, did Stalin live, having spent dispossession and collectivization?

                And what, there were oligarchs among the kulaks? Was one of the kulaks a dollar billionaire?
                Oh no?
                And yet, by the time of the attack on the kulaks, everyone who had any significant financial means had been cleared to zero long before that ...

                Z. Y. The version that Fanny Kaplan was a land killer of big business - as revenge for nationalization everything and everyone - it took place in the 90s ..
                If it was true - I would not be surprised ...
                And this is in those days when the concept of transnational corporations did not exist in nature.
          3. paul3390
            paul3390 24 February 2021 17: 22
            +3
            Personality is always generated by historical conditions. More precisely, they form a request for a person. Had Bonaparte, Genghis Khan, Hannibal, Stalin been born - yes, anyone a hundred years earlier or later, would they be realized in those greats whom we know from textbooks.
          4. New Year day
            New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 05
            +16
            Quote: СРЦ П-15
            It takes a personality to build this new thing. Do you have one in mind?

            where to get personalities. f if one person all the others rolled under the rink? Choiceless elections now boil down to dumb voting
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 24 February 2021 22: 47
              -8
              Quote: Silvestr
              Quote: СРЦ П-15
              It takes a personality to build this new thing. Do you have one in mind?

              where to get personalities. f if one person all the others rolled under the rink? Choiceless elections now boil down to dumb voting

              Sylvester, I completely agree with you - you described yourself correctly ... I see you run 5 in the fourth row on the left laughing
              You yourself are not disgusted (three times citizen)? If you don't like everything so much, blame the historical homeland of Ukraine, whose citizenship you independently adopted. How annoying you are. Multi-citizen ... all you have is a stench and a whine ... another sufferer. angry
        3. rocket757
          rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 54
          +6
          It is better not to try to roll back, to stand still, the perspective is sour ... we must go forward! It is necessary to use the experience of the past, there is, there is, a lot of good things.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 11: 07
            +6
            Quote: rocket757
            It is better not to try to roll back, to stand still, the prospect is sour ...

            Each of us should take a more active civic position. There is simply no other way out. Otherwise, the prospects for our state are very sad.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 24 February 2021 11: 20
              +3
              The question is "simple" .... there are followers, and there are leaders.
              Some part of society can / is ready to take on the role of slaves ... and who are the leaders ??? This is a very sour question ...
              1. aleksejkabanets
                aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 11: 40
                +4
                Quote: rocket757
                ... and who are the hosts ??? This is a very sour question ...

                You have to look for a party (movement) that is close to you in spirit, there is no other way.
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 24 February 2021 12: 20
                  +3
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  Quote: rocket757
                  ... and who are the hosts ??? This is a very sour question ...

                  You have to look for a party (movement) that is close to you in spirit, there is no other way.

                  This is understandable, BUT ..... I have already told how our area was "conquered" by the Liberal Democratic Party. With the labor, diligence, real deeds of one petty functionary of that party! Because people saw a real concern for their needs !!!
                  The song that "one cannot become famous for good deeds !!!" has nothing to do with life ....
                2. New Year day
                  New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 07
                  +17
                  Quote: aleksejkabanets
                  You have to look for a party (movement) that is close to you in spirit, there is no other way.

                  in the arena, the same clowns with their parties

                  Those who do not have access to this picnic will never show up
            2. gsev
              gsev 24 February 2021 13: 59
              +3
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              Each of us should take a more active civic position.

              What is meant by an active position? Now, for example, up to 300 applicants are running for a vacant position of a lawyer. 299 of them can make a revolution. But I think that under any new government they will not be able to work as lawyers. And there is no more willingness to go from supervisors and inspectors to production.
        4. tatra
          tatra 24 February 2021 10: 58
          +12
          The enemies of the communists, who seized the USSR, just proved that it is possible. They returned the same quality of power, the same System and economy that were in the Republic of Ingushetia, and their seizure of the USSR is 100% counter-revolution.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 11: 13
            +4
            Hello Irina hi
            Quote: tatra
            The enemies of the communists, who seized the USSR, just proved that it is possible. They returned the same quality of power, the same System and economy that were in the Republic of Ingushetia, and their seizure of the USSR is 100% counter-revolution.

            And it will end sooner or later in the same way as the RI ended. Although they are trying to slow down all this and "move out" on the path of some Latin American countries. The more people take a more active life position, the faster we will all come to certain positive results. So it is politically correct.)))))))
            1. New Year day
              New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 08
              +14
              Quote: aleksejkabanets
              And it will end sooner or later in the same way as the RI ended.

              Without a doubt!
        5. Gardamir
          Gardamir 24 February 2021 12: 45
          0
          It is necessary to build something new, relying on the past positive experience.
          Unfortunately, many only dream of returning Steel, returning the Soviet Union .. Suppose it is possible to return, then everything will be repeated.
      4. Destiny
        Destiny 24 February 2021 10: 41
        +11
        Yes, under the USSR there was just a socially oriented state, where both medicine and education were available to the people ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 24 February 2021 11: 03
          +3
          Quote: Destiny
          Yes, under the USSR there was just a socially oriented state, where both medicine and education were available to the people ...

          And now what i can do? That was sho, we were already asleep! You can't go back!
          So sho, to mark time, neither here nor there?
          Maybe let's move forward, at least some kind of perspective will appear!
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 10
          -1
          But they were not free taxes were not officially, but they were collected for all of the above from your labor, you could make products for 400 rubles, but the official salary you had was 150 for free, there is nothing for everything someone ultimately pays.
      5. gsev
        gsev 24 February 2021 13: 49
        -4
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        Return the USSR! And it would not be bad with Stalin at the head!

        You are not mistaken? Probably with Khrushchev at the head. After all, under him in the USSR, they stopped starving to death, captured part of Antarctica, overtook the United States in rocketry and nuclear power, eliminated the lag in biology and computing that arose due to Stalin's repressions.
    2. Lionnvrsk
      Lionnvrsk 24 February 2021 10: 26
      +2
      Quote: rocket757
      Advice ... interesting and the question is correct, WHO will it want to do?
      Is there an answer to it?

      The main thing is who will undertake to implement them and who will answer with what later. yes
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 33
        +2
        Quote: LIONnvrsk
        The main thing is who will undertake to implement them and who will answer with what later

        Again, the right question, bull's eye!
        RESPONSIBILITY, for what has been done or not done ... this is not a topic for reasoning, it should become the RULE! With no exceptions.
        1. Lionnvrsk
          Lionnvrsk 24 February 2021 12: 02
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          RESPONSIBILITY, for the deed or not performed

          And this responsibility must be INCREDIBLE !!! hi
  • paul3390
    paul3390 24 February 2021 10: 24
    +11
    All this is just a bunch of good wishes. The bourgeoisie will never do any of this with good. Why should they part with the loot? Something to build there in Russia, invest in it .. They are all deep into the pager. For we have colonial capitalism, and in principle it cannot be anything else. The world has long been divided, and to its division - we were late under the Romanovs. Therefore, no bourgeois party will do anything of the kind by definition. No one in bourgeois Russia will produce anything, and no one will invest in anything that does not contribute to the extraction of resources and their export beyond the cordon. Everything else - the oligarchy is not stupidly interested. Yes, and no one will let them into the foreign market with complex products, while inside the country - there are simply no consumers due to the poor population.

    Only the return of Soviet power can save our country. And only she can again deploy all resources to achieve the power of the state and the prosperity of the people.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 35
      +2
      Quote: paul3390
      Only the return of Soviet power can

      Maybe yes, maybe no .....
      The world has changed, WE have changed!
      Then, who can now personify, even to a small extent, the forces that are / can lead in that direction?
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 24 February 2021 11: 25
        +6
        But the laws of development of society do not change .. As well as the essence of capitalism.

        Yes - now nobody. The authorities have made colossal efforts to cleanse the real communists. Well, it was no easier for the old Bolsheviks than ours. Avon - spent all their life in prisons and links. But we have what they did not have. We have the Internet instead of leaflets and the newspaper Iskra, and, most importantly, you and I know for sure that Soviet power is possible ..


        "We have started this business. Exactly when, at what time, the proletarians of which nation will complete this business, is an insignificant question. The essential thing is that the ice is broken, that the way is open, the road is shown."
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 24 February 2021 12: 55
          +3
          But the laws of development of society do not change .. Like the essence of capitalism

          They manage to know this, not the overwhelming mass of our society ... that's where a lot of effort has been invested and will continue to be invested, that people did not know how to distinguish black from sweet !!! A person who does not know how to correctly identify landmarks to confuse .... well, like two fingers, I guess.
          And now the main question - How do they teach our younger generation ... I have to make a lot of effort to correct the "system of orientation, identification" of my wards! it does not always work out, the opposite pressure is painfully extensive and strong.
      2. your1970
        your1970 24 February 2021 12: 38
        +4
        Quote: paul3390
        Everything else - the oligarchy is not stupidly interested. Yes, and no one will let them into the foreign market with complex products, while inside the country - there are simply no consumers due to the poor population.

        And where did you get the idea that Soviet power, if she had come back suddenly now, would have been allowed to enter the foreign market. Then at least there was a social camp - where it was possible to sell products ...
        And now China is ahead of all, which means that our products of group B will not be needed by anyone for nothing (expensive). And the goods of group A will either be crushed by sanctions or they are again raw materials ...
        And we will find ourselves at the dead end of the late USSR
        And even if the population suddenly becomes wealthy, the population will not want to change iPhones to some sort of "Dawn / Sunset ...."
        But it will have to ... And here the Soviet government will have a problem - a decrease in commodity supply without a valid reason (war, for example). ..
        And to develop your own is time and money, but there are no industries and specialists ...
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 24 February 2021 13: 25
          +2
          You are thinking in terms of capitalism. The socialist economy does not need external markets at all. Moreover, the USSR was quite successful in selling its products to developing countries. Not everything can be covered by China. And the stump is clear - on certain positions we cannot compete with him. But - I do not see this as a big trouble.

          Moreover, the socialist camp did not disappear forever. There are enough countries who would like to follow this path. It's just that now the bourgeoisie have taken strength, they are pressing on the vine. But this is for now. And with China, if we have one version of socialism and one plans for the future, it is much easier to come to an agreement. Indeed, at one time - we melted exclusively because of Khrushchev's fierce revisionism. Mao - even then, predicted with extreme accuracy how it would end ..

          "After 1953, nationalists and careerists-bribe-takers came to power on the ground in the USSR. Covered from the Kremlin. When the time comes, they will throw off their masks, throw away their membership cards and openly rule their counties like feudal lords and serf-owners ..."
          1. your1970
            your1970 24 February 2021 13: 43
            +2
            Quote: paul3390
            The socialist economy does not really need foreign markets at all. Moreover, the USSR was quite successful in selling its products to developing countries.

            That's why the USSR dragged the Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod pipe ... To the damned capitalists ... From the uselessness of foreign markets, yeah ... ...

            Quote: paul3390
            Not everything can be covered by China. And the stump is clear - on certain positions we cannot compete with him. But - I do not see this as a big trouble.
            - China can easily cover the entire group of industrial products of category B ... And all over the world at once ...

            And the population will not be interested in the "milk yield" ... Generally ...
            The population will be interested - where to get dollars for spare parts for their Skoda or Toyota? Because our auto industry, if you throw out all the imported stuffing from it, will turn into a VAZ-2106

            And first, throw your phone in the trash and connect to a wired one ... Aha ...
            1. paul3390
              paul3390 24 February 2021 13: 57
              +6
              Don't write nonsense? Who said that they are not needed at all? You won't be able to completely isolate yourself from the external market, at least something - but you will have to buy from the bourgeoisie, and for this you need a commodity exchange. But socialism, with its tendency towards its own production, needs to purchase significantly less, and if you remove the factor of enrichment of the bourgeoisie, it is generally scanty in comparison with the current one.

              Can overlap. So what? Do you want to compete with him in cheap consumer goods? Of course it won't. But why? Outside, it is necessary to sell extremely complex products, such as airplanes, machine tools or nuclear power plants there. And here we are quite competitive.

              And - what do you propose to do on this occasion? To eventually turn into a Saudi-style gas station? Or can you finally start to produce your own again? Only the bourgeoisie doesn't need it in figs ..
              1. your1970
                your1970 24 February 2021 15: 05
                0
                Quote: paul3390
                Outside, it is necessary to sell extremely complex products, such as airplanes, machine tools or nuclear power plants there. And here we are quite competitive.

                Well, yes, yes ...
                Only the trouble is that the NPP is a piece product, but there are no queues for the planes .. Well, maybe machines, but I'm not very sure ...
                Quote: paul3390
                But socialism, with its tendency towards its own production, needs to purchase significantly less, and if you remove the factor of enrichment of the bourgeoisie, it is generally scanty in comparison with the current one.
                - and you just imagine that today the Soviet power, and tomorrow the population needs 10-15 million telephones. Just because they break ... Not after 10 years, not after 5 - tomorrow or in a month.... Where will you get them? Buy for foreign currency? Where will you get the currency? Money for nuclear power plants will not come soon ... selling weapons is also a specific thing.
                And then you will have a problem, because otherwise the population will say ... Yes, it will say a lot of obscene words about such a government ...
                And I still don't touch computers and cars ...
                And you will have a shortage of the most terrible of resources - time ...
                The population will demand Here and now everything they are used to .... But there is nowhere to take, and technologies are not sold - sanctions, but there is no currency ...
                Everything that was already in the late USSR ...
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 24 February 2021 23: 00
                  +1
                  You simply do not want to understand in any way that Soviet power is, first of all, an alternative of meanings .. The stump is clear that if you want to overtake the same America in consumption of material goods, you won’t get a shit. With our modern capitalism, by the way, too. It is impossible to eat more than a planetary vacuum cleaner. Tell me - utopia? But did the Bolsheviks somehow succeed? And very successfully, until revisionists like Khrushchev came to power, with their stupid thesis like we will surpass America in consumption. The fact of the matter is that Soviet people are a consumer of completely different values. Which of course does not mean material poverty ..

                  And about smartphones - the argument is so-so. For we do not produce them even now - but do we take them somewhere? For the most part - yes in China. I absolutely don't see why the situation should change if we return to socialism as well. At least at first ..
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 25 February 2021 23: 20
                    -1
                    Quote: paul3390
                    But why? Outside, it is necessary to sell extremely complex products, such as airplanes, machine tools or nuclear power plants there.

                    Quote: paul3390
                    The socialist economy does not need external markets at all.

                    Quote: paul3390
                    The fact of the matter is that Soviet people are a consumer of completely different values. Which of course does not mean material poverty ..

                    - Only here is the Trouble - this is a Soviet person who managed with cotton instead of gaskets, one telephone per village, Zaporozhets and a kilogram of tangerines for a holiday ...
                    Now it won't work anymore - cotton wool has long been for dollars (cotton does not grow here), phones in China (and again dollars), even a Zaporozhets is no longer available just like that ... well, except that Abkhazia will drive tangerines for rubles ...
                    Your first two proposals sharply reduce the amount of currency entering the country, which in turn will lead to a sharp decline in imports ...
                    And the current population will not forgive you for this, simply because it became a consumer society a long time ago ...
                    Cut off consumption in the current volume - well, hold out for a while, but you definitely won't have time to build socialism.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 14
                0
                "Machine tools" - On the world market and on the Russian market, dozens of foreign manufacturers offer machine tool products according to the sim, the demand for our products in this segment will be minimal.
                1. paul3390
                  paul3390 24 February 2021 22: 54
                  +1
                  So what? Chinese, for example, do they buy? The whole question is price and quality, well - and a solid political moment. Not everyone is eager to have sophisticated, expensive equipment that turns off at a click from Washington.
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 24 February 2021 23: 37
                    +1
                    Quote: paul3390
                    The whole question is price and quality, well - and a solid political moment.
                    -you have a machine tool industry-ready to surpass TODAY(not tomorrow !!) China? Nope?
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 24 February 2021 12: 51
      0
      Only the return of Soviet power
      It's impossible. Not unless, of course, you return yourself 15 years, then you can dream about the return of Soviet power.
      People will not live well as long as they dream about the past; they can dream about the future.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 24 February 2021 13: 17
        +3
        So Putin says it is impossible .. And I think that once it was done, it is quite possible to repeat it. Taking into account the mistakes of course.
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 24 February 2021 13: 34
          0
          then it is quite possible to repeat
          Those who created the Soviet Union were the first in everything. Why do you want to repeat? I would also like to repeat my 22 years, but without remembering the advantages and disadvantages of the Soviet Union, we must go forward.
          But for Putin it is impossible, because he does not want the good for the people at all.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 24 February 2021 13: 38
            +5
            Are you hoping to invent some absolutely new social formation ?? what

            It is clear that the USSR 2.1 will not be exactly the same as the USSR 1.0 Errors must be taken into account. But the foundation is socialism, no doubt it will be the same. If we want to survive.
            1. Gardamir
              Gardamir 24 February 2021 13: 47
              -3
              to invent some absolutely new social formation?
              Maybe. The world has changed a lot. Even under the tsar, Soviets were created and they acted. And now who will go to the Soviets?
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 24 February 2021 14: 02
                +3
                and suddenly Valkenstein began to sing in a heavy bass:
                And if you hadn't come back
                Who would go ahead?
                “Anyone…” Sidorov said stubbornly with his eyes closed. - Anyone will go ahead ...


                There will be those who wish. You shouldn't think so pessimistically about your people ..
                1. your1970
                  your1970 24 February 2021 23: 40
                  +3
                  Quote: Gardamir
                  And now who will go to the Soviets?

                  Quote: paul3390
                  There will be those who wish. You shouldn't think so pessimistically about your people ..
                  -wishing a carriage will run up right away - corrupt officials, bandits, quitters ... only I have a feeling that you don't need such people there ... but you need honest and respectable ones - who just won't go there: problematic, crap, and so on ...
          2. New Year day
            New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 12
            +17
            Quote: Gardamir
            But for Putin it is impossible, because he does not want the good for the people at all.

            he does not want the good for people because they are rubbish for him. This old conscientious Chekist leaven.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 11
          +14
          Quote: paul3390
          So Putin says it's impossible ..

          all the more so to him. HE is the first for the Revolutionary Tribunal
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 10
      +17
      Quote: paul3390
      Only the return of Soviet power can save our country.

      means that all the bourgeoisie of today, together with the "cream of society" to the nail. those. red terror.
      Quote: paul3390
      ... Why should they part with the loot?

      confirmation in your words
  • Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 24 February 2021 10: 26
    +21
    Putin's conservatism? Which one? The one that:
    ... keeps the country from chaos and collapse. From the repetition of the events of 1991. From the death of the Russian state.

    Have mercy. But it was all the laws and decrees signed by Putin that led to the current state of the economy, foreign policy and social tension.
    Conservatism (from Lat. Conservo - I keep) - ideological adherence to traditional values ​​and orders, social or religious doctrines. The main goal is to preserve the traditions of society, its institutions and morals.

    So it was Putin who promised EBN to preserve all the foundations of the Soviet state that were completely destroyed in the early 90s. This country is still living according to the concepts, clothed in the letter of laws.
    It has long been clear what to do, but neither Putin nor his associates are capable of it. Stop thinking about a guarantor who cannot guarantee anything to the majority, who is a guarantor for a certain part of Russian citizens. Russian - according to their passport, but in fact - long ago become bourgeois and exploiters not only of their own people, but also destroyers of nature.
    These simple and even populist measures will lead to the formation of a sovereign (autocratic), popular model of the state.

    A change in the economic course and a turn towards a socialist economic system will lead to the creation of a popular model of the state.
    1. BAI
      BAI 24 February 2021 12: 32
      +2
      keeps the country from chaos and collapse. From the repetition of the events of 1991. From the death of the Russian state.

      We compare the development of China and Russia over the past 20 years and are surprised. Or we are not surprised. Someone like.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 16
        -2
        There is no point in comparing Russia with China - different countries in everything.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 13
          +14
          Quote: Vadim237
          There is no point in comparing Russia with China - different countries in everything.

          in what?
    2. clerk
      clerk 26 February 2021 09: 41
      0
      ... Have mercy. But it was all the laws and decrees signed by Putin that led to the current state of the economy, foreign policy and social tension.
      Exactly. And in all these positions, everything is pretty good.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 24 February 2021 10: 28
    +9
    My minus. I don’t want to integrate with the Chinese, the blacks, despite the fact that some Putin does everything for this. Well, I don't want to see a billion Chinese people on my land. Yes, I'm a racist in this respect. Let them chew snakes and mice with rats there.
  • Professor
    Professor 24 February 2021 10: 31
    +3
    Quote: Svarog
    Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

    Not "correct" but "brilliant". Topa "take everything and divide". However, there was only one such trifle as money. Where is it interesting the author will take money for all these "gingerbread"? Retired, for a free apartment for a family with four children, and further down the list? Does he really offer to sell ALL the subsoil?
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 24 February 2021 11: 02
      +9
      Quote: Professor
      Quote: Svarog
      Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

      Not "correct" but "brilliant". Topa "take everything and divide". However, there was only one such trifle as money. Where is it interesting the author will take money for all these "gingerbread"? Retired, for a free apartment for a family with four children, and further down the list? Does he really offer to sell ALL the subsoil?

      Money is the equivalent of a product. Russia is self-sufficient and there is enough product, even what is called raw materials .. The USSR had experience in conditions of constant wars and sanctions, created a prosperous state. This experience must be adopted.
      1. Professor
        Professor 24 February 2021 11: 31
        +4
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: Svarog
        Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

        Not "correct" but "brilliant". Topa "take everything and divide". However, there was only one such trifle as money. Where is it interesting the author will take money for all these "gingerbread"? Retired, for a free apartment for a family with four children, and further down the list? Does he really offer to sell ALL the subsoil?

        Money is the equivalent of a product. Russia is self-sufficient and there is enough product, even what is called raw materials .. The USSR had experience in conditions of constant wars and sanctions, created a prosperous state. This experience must be adopted.

        However, the comrade offers to distribute money (huge money) to the left and to the right, regardless of the "product". We'll just have to print them again. request
        1. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 24 February 2021 14: 42
          +6
          Quote: Professor
          However, the comrade offers to distribute money (huge money) to the left and to the right, regardless of the "product". We'll just have to print them again.

          You, as always, are on top ... At the height of your department.
          Money can be printed. Money is the blood of the economy. Only they should not be tied to non-existent values, scraps of paper that do not give reproduction and norms imposed from the outside. For this purpose, the state treasury is called upon to exist with a treasury that issues banknotes (even if made of precious metals, even if provided with precious metals and other assets). And manipulations with these banknotes in the form of appropriation under special conditions or as a result of speculation, the essence of which is not to accept full-fledged banknotes outside the country's borders, but to invent any ways to depreciate such money (even with digital bitcoin) should be suppressed in the most radical way. And if you dig and look deep into the problem, then neither for gold, nor for dollars, nor, even more so, for bitcoins, you can not buy a mug of water and a piece of bread in the "desert".

          That is why all the financial activities of the Central Bank and the Ministry of Economy of the Russian Federation are aimed at anything, except for the development of the economy and decent provision of Russian citizens. That is why there is no production of essential goods in Russia. That is why the creation of 25 high-tech jobs is progressing with creak. That is why the Russian economy is in a fever with the prices of raw materials (hydrocarbons in particular), shaking from various sanctions (what is it and why, if it has its own money, the country should be afraid of someone if we “feed the army”).

          As for the distribution of money and "elephants", then sensible citizens of Russia, who are "not extremists from an anecdote":
          The official's son asks his father:
          - Dad, what is patriotism?
          - This is when ordinary people work for a penny so that we can live on an estate, go to a dacha in Italy ...
          “But aren't they angry about this?
          - Of course they are angry, but this is extremism.

          but simply honest people want the country to have the rule of law for all and a pronounced social justice. Which does not threaten to take away and distribute, but proposes to establish the legality of the origin of the capital of some Russian contingent, and to determine the right of low-income citizens to a decent life and decent wages, not because they can be lured away by foreign structures (as we are justified by the high salaries of "effective managers"), but because they are the bearers of power under the constitution and they simply have nowhere to go.
          hi
          1. Professor
            Professor 24 February 2021 15: 14
            +3
            Why are there so many letters? Briefly: We must live within our means. hi
            1. Ross xnumx
              Ross xnumx 24 February 2021 15: 15
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              In short: We must live within our means.

              We must teach (or force) to live within our means.
              1. Professor
                Professor 24 February 2021 17: 13
                +5
                Quote: ROSS 42
                Quote: Professor
                In short: We must live within our means.

                We must teach (or force) to live within our means.

                Definitely. Printing money and giving out free apartments to families with 4 children is not "living within our means."
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 20
              +1
              So Russia is within its means and we do not have a printing press - the real economy is how much has been produced and sold, it already depends on the client base.
              1. Professor
                Professor 24 February 2021 17: 27
                0
                Quote: Vadim237
                This is how Russia lives within its means we do not have a printing press - the real economy, how much they have produced and sold it already depends on the client base.

                I'm embarrassed to ask, who is now printing rubles for you? wink
              2. Overlock
                Overlock 24 February 2021 22: 34
                +12
                Quote: Vadim237
                So Russia is within its means and we do not have a printing press - the real economy is how much has been produced and sold.



                Here are our successes in this
            3. New Year day
              New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 14
              +19
              Quote: Professor
              In short: We must live within our means.

              only the means are different for everyone. The level of stratification in society is critical
              1. Professor
                Professor 24 February 2021 21: 24
                +1
                Quote: Silvestr
                Quote: Professor
                In short: We must live within our means.

                only the means are different for everyone. The level of stratification in society is critical

                This is secondary. First of all, everyone should be within their means and strive for more.
                1. New Year day
                  New Year day 24 February 2021 22: 09
                  +14
                  Quote: Professor
                  First of all, everyone should be within their means and strive for more.

                  Indisputably. But the starting conditions and the treadmill are different for everyone.
          2. your1970
            your1970 24 February 2021 23: 45
            +2
            Quote: ROSS 42
            just honest people, they want the country to have the rule of law for all and pronounced social justice... Which does not threaten to take and distribute, but proposes to establish the legality of the origin of the capital of a certain Russian contingent,


            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And actually what's wrong with taking away and sharing? The expropriation of the expropriators is a necessary and correct thing.


            Well, something like this.... belay belay belay
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 16: 30
      +2
      And actually, what's wrong with taking away and sharing? The expropriation of the expropriators is a necessary and correct thing.
      1. Professor
        Professor 24 February 2021 17: 15
        +1
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        And actually, what's wrong with taking away and sharing? The expropriation of the expropriators is a necessary and correct thing.

        It certainly works as a one-time promotion. Then the rich to the wall, and the poor will eat up the expropriated and into even greater poverty, into even greater hunger. Many have already gone through this. There were no exceptions to the rules.
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 18: 36
          0
          Prof. Maybe this crap about "take away and divide" will be enough? Why is this demagoguery? You know perfectly well that obscurity is not so primitive.
          1. Professor
            Professor 24 February 2021 21: 06
            +4
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            Prof. Maybe this crap about "take away and divide" will be enough? Why is this demagoguery? You know perfectly well that obscurity is not so primitive.

            Marxism is not primitive. Its adherents are primitive. And always and everywhere with them blood is shed and there is nothing to eat.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 22: 39
              -1
              Quote: Professor
              Marxism is not primitive. Its adherents are primitive. And always and everywhere with them blood is shed and there is nothing to eat.

              Are you saying that capitalism is free of all this? And just was the ideal OEF from birth? This is a lie and you know it too. He was never perfect and is not perfect now. And somewhere people are starving and dying in this beautiful capitalist paradise. And with regards to the primitiveness of the adherents of Marxism. Are they that much different from the adepts of capitalism? Relatively there is nothing to eat, I remember the stories of my relatives about how the Russian and not only Russian villages used to live in the era of capitalism in Ingushetia. When, in addition to hunger, you could give an oak tree against the most prosaic diseases, and somehow your capitalist ideals immediately fade for me. And if you remember that fascism is a product of capitalism, then in general everything becomes sad.
              1. Professor
                Professor 25 February 2021 08: 37
                0
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Quote: Professor
                Marxism is not primitive. Its adherents are primitive. And always and everywhere with them blood is shed and there is nothing to eat.

                Are you saying that capitalism is free of all this? And just was the ideal OEF from birth? This is a lie and you know it too. He was never perfect and is not perfect now. And somewhere people are starving and dying in this beautiful capitalist paradise. And with regards to the primitiveness of the adherents of Marxism. Are they that much different from the adepts of capitalism? Relatively there is nothing to eat, I remember the stories of my relatives about how the Russian and not only Russian villages used to live in the era of capitalism in Ingushetia. When, in addition to hunger, you could give an oak tree against the most prosaic diseases, and somehow your capitalist ideals immediately fade for me. And if you remember that fascism is a product of capitalism, then in general everything becomes sad.

                I want to say that where Marxism rules, there is hunger, executions and darkness. There are no exceptions. Do you love Marxism? Go to North Korea for permanent residence.
                1. Was mammoth
                  Was mammoth 25 February 2021 09: 56
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  I want to say that where Marxism rules, there is hunger, executions and darkness. There are no exceptions. Do you love Marxism? Go to North Korea for permanent residence.

                  Oh no no no!
                  "BEIJING, February 25. / TASS /. China has won the fight against absolute poverty. Chinese President Xi Jinping said this Thursday at a meeting dedicated to the country's achievements in eradicating poverty."
                  https://news.mail.ru/politics/45340498/?frommail=1
                  This is in a country in which there are more people than we have cockroaches. Communist.
                  Have you heard about the USSR?
                  Yesterday sounded on TV. The Americans believed that they lost more people for the pandemic than in two worlds and the Vietnamese one. The remnants of Soviet mass medicine did not allow this in Russia.
                  "Hunger, shootings, darkness." Capitalism.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 25 February 2021 11: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: There was a mammoth
                    This is in a country in which there are more people than we have cockroaches. Communist.
                    Have you heard about the USSR?

                    What a news. I have visited China dozens of times, have been working with them since 2008, transferred production (capitalist) and it turns out that China is a communist country. How about the means of production that are in private hands?
                    Let's talk about the millions of Chinese who died of hunger under Mao when there was no smell of capitalism there?

                    Quote: There was a mammoth
                    Yesterday sounded on TV. The Americans believed that they lost more people for the pandemic than in two worlds and the Vietnamese one. The remnants of Soviet mass medicine did not allow this in Russia.
                    "Hunger, shootings, darkness." Capitalism.

                    Dumb Americans can't count their losses like you do. laughing

                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    This is rotten demagoguery. There is no socialism in North Korea.

                    We are about Marxism, not about socialism. Socialism in Israel and Sweden. You have to "take and divide everything" in North Korea. There all are the same and equal - all are equally poor.
                    1. Was mammoth
                      Was mammoth 26 February 2021 09: 39
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      We are about Marxism, not about socialism.

                      Quote: Professor
                      I've been to China dozens of times

                      "Ideas about socialism with Chinese characteristics of the new era are the continuation and development of Marxism-Leninism, the ideas of Mao Zedong, the theory of Deng Xiaoping ...."
                      The General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party thinks differently from the Professor from Israel. wink
                      Quote: Professor
                      How about the means of production that are in private hands?

                      Even in the USSR, from which you fled, the means of production were in private hands. We had a NEP. Even with Khrushchev's adventures there were. Have you heard of collective farm property or cooperative property? The reasons for their existence are a separate topic.
                      Quote: Professor
                      Let's talk about the millions of Chinese who died of hunger under Mao when there was no smell of capitalism there?

                      It smelled like a legacy of the past. Let's talk about the "famine" of the Americans during the Great Depression?
                      There is no socialism in Israel. "Capitalism with a Human Face". wink Distort.
                    2. Professor
                      Professor 26 February 2021 18: 12
                      -1
                      Quote: There was a mammoth
                      "Ideas about socialism with Chinese characteristics of the new era are the continuation and development of Marxism-Leninism, the ideas of Mao Zedong, the theory of Deng Xiaoping ...."
                      The General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party thinks differently from the Professor from Israel.

                      Whose hands are the means of production in China? It's elementary. fellow

                      Quote: There was a mammoth
                      Even in the USSR, from which you fled, the means of production were in private hands. We had a NEP. Even with Khrushchev's adventures there were. Have you heard of collective farm property or cooperative property? The reasons for their existence are a separate topic.

                      Nonsense. In the USSR, there were no means of production in private hands and the NEPmen were shot. Collective farm and cooperative property is not private property. Learn materiel.

                      Quote: There was a mammoth

                      It smelled like a legacy of the past. Let's talk about the "famine" of the Americans during the Great Depression?

                      With pleasure. Tell us about the famine of the Americans during the Great Depression. I am all in attention.

                      Quote: There was a mammoth
                      There is no socialism in Israel. "Capitalism with a Human Face". You twist.

                      You know better whether there is socialism in Israel or not. I'll tell you a secret. In Israel, there is also communism. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs ...
                    3. Was mammoth
                      Was mammoth 27 February 2021 14: 50
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      I'll tell you a secret. In Israel, there is also communism. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs ...

                      And, in China, capitalism. belay
                      Are you acting like a fool?
                      You write nonsense.
                      You don't seem to see the difference between public, private, mixed and personal property. The CCP has control over the entire economy. And, the results are visible. From blast furnaces in the village to space flights, from hunger to victory over poverty.
                      PS
                      Quote: Professor
                      Tell us about the American famine during the Great Depression. I am all in attention.

                      Your way out.
                    4. Professor
                      Professor 27 February 2021 20: 21
                      0
                      Quote: There was a mammoth
                      And, in China, capitalism.
                      Are you acting like a fool?
                      You write nonsense.
                      You don't seem to see the difference between public, private, mixed and personal property. The CCP has control over the entire economy. And, the results are visible. From blast furnaces in the village to space flights, from hunger to victory over poverty.

                      Whose hands are the means of production in China?

                      Quote: There was a mammoth
                      Let's talk about the "famine" of the Americans during the Great Depression?

                      I look forward to a heartbreaking story. Don't merge quickly.
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 25 February 2021 10: 40
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            Do you love Marxism? Go to North Korea for permanent residence.

            This is rotten demagoguery. There is no socialism in North Korea. As there is none in China. Would you like to live, say, in Haiti? Or as the average Indian? Or to mine cobalt like African children? This is also capitalism. Or die from the right democratic bomb in Libya, Iraq or Syria? And this is also capitalism. You stubbornly close your eyes to the fact that capitalism is a gigantic socialization of labor, the results of which are distributed extremely unevenly and unfairly. And yours to take away and divide works great under capitalism, where they take away from the majority and divide between the minority.
  • Tiksi-3
    Tiksi-3 24 February 2021 10: 34
    +1
    Quote: Svarog
    Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

    The advice is correct, but the implementation of these advice is possible only in one way, but do we really need this?
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 24 February 2021 11: 07
      +8
      Quote: Tiksi-3
      Quote: Svarog
      Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

      The advice is correct, but the implementation of these advice is possible only in one way, but do we really need this?

      A couple more years of such horror ... and this question will no longer be relevant, and the answer to it will become unambiguous.
      1. Tiksi-3
        Tiksi-3 24 February 2021 11: 09
        -2
        Quote: Svarog
        A couple more years

        what is the reason for a couple of years?
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 24 February 2021 11: 17
          +9
          Quote: Tiksi-3
          Quote: Svarog
          A couple more years

          what is the reason for a couple of years?

          At this rate, into poverty, in a couple of years, another 20 ml. compatriots will get .. and the population decline will not be 600 but 000 ml .. and here you will have to choose between life and death .. and not between bad and very bad
          1. Civil
            Civil 24 February 2021 11: 32
            -5
            Quote: Svarog
            At this rate, into poverty, in a couple of years, another 20 ml. compatriots will get .. and the population decline will not be 600 but 000 ml .. and here you will have to choose between life and death .. and not between bad and very bad

            Well, it will and will be, many times this has happened in our country. Nothing has changed. And now it's the same. Some will rule until death, then they will be "exposed" and others will rule until death.
          2. NEOZ
            NEOZ 24 February 2021 11: 47
            -11%
            Quote: Svarog
            At this rate into poverty, in a couple of years,

            poverty is when you want a jeep, but you buy a Lada Vesta?
            what kind of poverty do you mean?
            Quote: Svarog
            and the population decline will not be 600 but 000 mln ..

            study the subject "demography" ... everything is there ...
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 16: 46
              +10
              Poverty is when you want a fret grenade, but you have a wife on maternity leave and you have to pay half the salary for a mortgage. The fact that your pearls are small, we have already understood a resident of a fabulous country.
              1. NEOZ
                NEOZ 25 February 2021 14: 40
                -4
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Poverty is when you want a fret grenade, but you have a wife on maternity leave and you have to pay half the salary for a mortgage.

                so it's great!
                you can use the mother capital !!!!!!
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                The fact that your pearls are small, we have already understood a resident of a fabulous country.

                here are some more people from the fairyland:
                According to the Association of European Businesses, in 2020, the Russian car market sank 9,1% compared to 2019. Only 1 million 599 thousand new cars were sold ...
                1,6 million people bought a new car ...
                It is curious that the Russian market for new cars has not suffered so much in comparison with other countries. Due to the absence of serious "covid" restrictions in the second half of 2020, Russia took the fourth place in terms of sales in Europe.
      2. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 24 February 2021 16: 56
        +3
        Quote: Svarog
        and the answer to it will become unambiguous.

        It has long been unambiguous.
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 24 February 2021 11: 34
    -12%
    Quote: Svarog
    Correct advice. But who will follow them, they are not capable there ..

    start with you! -Use these useful tips !!!
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 16: 47
      +4
      Better to start with you. It will be more effective.
    2. New Year day
      New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 15
      +16
      Quote: NEOZ
      start with you! -use these useful tips !!

      so start with yourself
      1. NEOZ
        NEOZ 25 February 2021 15: 04
        -1
        Quote: Silvestr
        so start with yourself

        I can't start with myself ... I find these tips silly ...
  • sniperino
    sniperino 24 February 2021 11: 37
    -6
    Quote: Svarog
    Correct advice.
    The main thing is from knowledgeable people. I can imagine what horrors you observe in your refrigerators.
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 17
      +16
      Quote: sniperino
      The main thing is from knowledgeable people. I can imagine what horrors you observe in your refrigerators.

      You can act as foolish as you like, but there is a problem!
      "Vladimir Putin considers it possible to think about the idea of ​​introducing food certificates for the poor," he said on Tuesday, February 17, 2021, at a meeting with the leaders of the State Duma factions.

      - Food certificates - we have already discussed this, and I instructed the government to talk about this topic. There are pluses, there are certain problematic issues that need to be resolved. But you can definitely think about it completely, - said the president. "

      Read on WWW.KP.RU: https://www.kp.ru/daily/27241/4369125/
    2. Free wind
      Free wind 25 February 2021 05: 36
      0
      The mouse hanged itself, this is of course class! However, the port is not the same.
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 25 February 2021 05: 54
        0
        Quote: Free Wind
        wrong port
        You got drunk with ports. Normal serial. There are no universal ones, people save money on hardware. Another refrigerator, tell me, is not the same.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 24 February 2021 12: 51
    +5
    Colleague! Reread the comments carefully, even here - on VO! The feeling that all these Solovievs, Kiselevs, Sheinins, Popovs and Skabeyevs and others like them grabbed several accounts and lines, lines, lines in the comments! Well, only, opponents are not called scum, here, thanks to the moderators.
    And it seems that they do not live in the suburbs or Transbaikalia, but in London. Because everything around them is good and there is no reason to worry!
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 09
      -6
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      and in London.

      do you think london living is easy? ...
      1. Bolt cutter
        Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 15: 55
        +5
        do you think it's easy to live in london?
        What do you mean by "easy"?
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 24 February 2021 16: 00
          -7
          Quote: Bolt Cutter
          What do you mean by "easy"?

          "easy" is when the cost of your comfortable accommodation (with food) costs you few hours of your work.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 16: 02
            +2
            What is comfortable living for you and what kind of work will you become? There are many introductory notes.
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 24 February 2021 16: 15
              -9
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              What is comfortable living for you

              in principle, this is regulated in the Russian Federation by SNIPs and Rospotrebnadzor.
              accordingly, if the accommodation indicators correspond to 150% of the recommendations, then such accommodation can be considered comfortable.
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              and what will you become?

              doesn't matter. since this is regulated by labor law.
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 24 February 2021 21: 18
        +20
        Quote: NEOZ
        do you think london living is easy? ...

        we've heard that before!
        laughing
      3. sniperino
        sniperino 25 February 2021 07: 40
        -2
        Quote: NEOZ
        do you think it's easy to live in london?
        Hope while breathing. Ilyich showed them the way there. The runaways are still accepted there.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 25 February 2021 14: 42
          -1
          Quote: sniperino
          Ilyich showed them the way there.

          so Ilyich himself did not climb out of Switzerland!
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 25 February 2021 14: 59
            -1
            Quote: NEOZ
            Quote: sniperino
            Ilyich showed them the way there.

            so Ilyich himself did not climb out of Switzerland!
            While Ilyich was in Siberia, the first congress of the RSDLP was still held in Minsk, and the second was already following the Leninist path: Brussels-London, the third and fifth - London, and the fourth (formal) in Stockholm. In Switzerland, the air is simply cleaner and there is more sun.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 24 February 2021 16: 42
    0
    "Secondly, full control over the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance. The Ministry of Finance must implement targeted investments at the lowest or even negative percentage in industry, agriculture and large infrastructure projects (for example, the completion of the Northern Railway, which will complement the Transsib; a tunnel or a bridge on Sakhalin, etc.). Rejection of the 2018 pension reform ". "Correct advice" - Populist slogans about nothing where the authors do not write money for all this as usual, and the paper will of course endure. As an example, the cost of all worn-out fixed assets in Russia pulls 90 trillion rubles, then there is still pensioners that would make a minimum pension of at least 25000 every year in the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation, you need to throw an additional 7 trillion with a total current budget of 20 trillion for all such money from the air will not work Wishlist Wishlist and reality is reality.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 25 February 2021 14: 40
    +2
    the problem is not ability, but lack of motivation
  • KeithRichards
    KeithRichards 25 February 2021 17: 41
    0
    Idiotic advice. And some are even dangerous, especially about the maternal salary and the increase due to the number of children. Knowing ours, all this will again turn into a business, as with the first wave of maternity capital, which will be mainly dealt with by marginal families whose family turns out to be the life embodiment of a family from the TV series "Shameless".
    Or, for example, a bridge to Sakhalin Island. For what? What to develop there? Spend a bunch of dough, which, like all sorts of "streams" will fight back to zero for another 30 years? I believe the bridge to Sakhalin and you will not beat it back in 100 years. The streams are okay, at least the infrastructure was pumped in places.
  • Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 10: 07
    +19
    First, you need to abandon the advisers face of the IMF, WB, EBRD. And their Russian minions like HSE and RANEPA.

    That's for sure. As an economist, I affirm :)
    Liberal-monetary management methods - to the dustbin

    And it is right. There is the Keynesian school, which, without denying the role of the market economy, obliges the state to act as a regulator of many economic processes, including through government orders and so on. Competent management of our economy should be built on its basis.
    And in some ways it is necessary to innovate. The same Glazyev proposed to ensure a stable exchange rate of the ruble against the dollar (yes, I was not the only one who recommended this :)))))
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 24 February 2021 10: 27
      +14
      full control over the Central Bank and the Ministry of Finance

      It would not hurt either. The Central Bank should be the State Bank in every sense of the word (as under the Union), and not some branch of the Federal Reserve System, but from the Ministry of Finance it is high time for these HSE clever people to chase with a broom with a broom.
    2. paul3390
      paul3390 24 February 2021 10: 27
      +7
      obliges the state to act as a regulator of many economic processes

      The state always represents the interests of the exclusively ruling class. Such is the oligarchy in our country. Then the question is - on feijoa he should limit his own appetites to plunder the country?
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 24 February 2021 10: 35
      +11
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      The same Glazyev proposed to ensure a stable exchange rate of the ruble against the dollar (yes, I was not the only one who recommended it :)))))

      Glazyev, you say? Which one is on the far right?

      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      There is the Keynesian school, which, without denying the role of the market economy, obliges the state to act as a regulator of many economic processes, including through government orders, etc. Competent management of our economy should be built on its basis.

      And there is a socialist practice that kicked all schools and showed that it is possible to build what seemed fantastic to American writers in a single country:
      For the third time, H.G. Wells will come to Russia in 1934, 10 years after the death of the "Kremlin dreamer." He will come, see an electrified country with hundreds of new industrial enterprises and remark: "Now, looking through my book written fourteen years ago, I must admit that Lenin was at least a really great man."
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 24 February 2021 10: 57
        +10
        Quote: ROSS 42
        H.G. Wells will visit Russia for the third time in 1934

        Quote: ROSS 42
        I have to admit that Lenin was at least a really great man

        H.G. Wells was not only a writer, but also an outstanding British intelligence officer, he is rightfully included in the golden fund of British intelligence.
        He was a member of various closed clubs and communities, the current Declaration of Human Rights was written by Wells, he was a supporter of the destruction of patriotism as such, opposed nation states, for total control over people, freedom, fertility.
        The man was extraordinary.
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 11: 46
        +7
        Quote: ROSS 42
        And there is a socialist practice that kicked all schools and showed that it is possible to build what seemed fantastic to American writers in a single country:

        The only problem is that in terms of economic efficiency the USSR was inferior to the United States even at the peak of its power.
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 24 February 2021 13: 05
          -2
          nevertheless, the efficiency of the economy of the USSR was inferior to the USA
          Here you have to look. as someone said, "where the dog rummaged." The US "economy" is an aggressive war. America is the world's lender.
          Let's remember the dashing 30s. Dashing for the West. If not for the war, where would America be? But America got money to help the Union. Gave a loan to Europe for recovery ...
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 13: 25
            +5
            Quote: Gardamir
            Here you have to look. as someone said "where the dog fumbled." The US "economy" is an aggressive war.

            The US economy is more than 30 percent of the world industrial production in 1900, when the US did not really wage any external wars at all. Only the Spanish-American 1898, when the Americans took Cuba, the Philippines and Puerto Rico from Spain, and even in 1893 they seized Hawaii. That is, it is obvious that the colonial policy of the United States was pursued, but it is just as obvious that the impressive industrial success that Uncle Sam achieved at the end of the 19th century was impossible to build on this foundation.
            Quote: Gardamir
            America is the world's lender.

            After WWII.
            Quote: Gardamir
            Let's remember the dashing 30s. Dashing for the West. If not for the war, where would America be?

            The United States quite successfully got out of the Great Depression and without any war.
            Quote: Gardamir
            But America got money to help the Union.

            From whom? :)))) Lend-Lease, in fact, was free. Yes, we supplied something with "reverse lend-lease", and bought some, instead of returning after the war. The USSR also bought US products that were not included in the list of lend-lease supplies. But the bulk of Lend-Lease came to us for free.
            1. Gardamir
              Gardamir 24 February 2021 13: 41
              0
              In 1900, America was still developing, there were a lot of empty places that needed to be developed, including the same oil.
              Lend-Lease was actually free
              there seem to be two opinions here. some speak for free. while others refer to the United States Protection Act, which stated that "lend-lease property left over from the end of the war and suitable for civilian purposes will be paid in whole or in part on the basis of long-term loans provided by the United States (mainly interest-free loans);
              if the American side is interested, the undamaged and undamaged vehicles and equipment must be returned after the war to the United States "
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 13: 55
                +2
                Quote: Gardamir
                In 1900, America was still developing, there were a lot of empty places that needed to be developed, including the same oil.

                Nevertheless, it was already the first country in industrial development - by a huge margin from the rest
                Quote: Gardamir
                there seem to be two opinions here. some speak for free. while others refer to the United States Protection Act

                And those who refer to this law, they themselves read this law?
                Quote: Gardamir
                property transferred under Lend-Lease, remaining after the end of the war and suitable for civilian purposes, will be paid in whole or in part on the basis of long-term loans provided by the United States (mainly interest-free loans)

                That is, we are not talking about food, materials, gasoline, or military equipment lost during the war, etc. etc., but only about what remained after the war. And then, for this it was possible not to pay, but to return.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 24
          +1
          Because in the United States, private entrepreneurship was not prohibited - that is why it was in the first place.
    4. BAI
      BAI 24 February 2021 12: 38
      +3
      First, you need to abandon the advisers face of the IMF, WB, EBRD. And their Russian minions like HSE and RANEPA.

      That's right.

      And where will the Government go 70-80% of its composition? Who will sign the order on their own dismissal?
      Let me remind you of some RANEPA alumni. This is someone: Matvienko, Shoigu, Zyuganov. Well, etc.
      I am not even talking about the fact that the HSE Rector is the husband of the President (President) of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 12: 45
        +4
        Quote: BAI
        And where will the Government go 70-80% of its composition? Who will sign the order on their own dismissal?
        Let me remind you of some RANEPA alumni.

        Well, it's not about graduates, but about limiting the influence of these structures on government policy in terms of the economy.
        Quote: BAI
        I am not even talking about the fact that the HSE Rector is the husband of the President (President) of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation.

        "Judge and shoot" (c)
        1. BAI
          BAI 24 February 2021 13: 03
          +2
          Judge and shoot "(c)

          With confiscation.
          1. NEOZ
            NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 11
            -7
            Quote: BAI
            With confiscation.

            is it like in 1917?
    5. NEOZ
      NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 10
      -3
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      That's for sure. As an economist, I affirm :)

      Andrey, as an economist, explain what is the main function of the gold reserves?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 14: 04
        +8
        Quote: NEOZ
        Andrey, as an economist, explain what is the main function of the gold reserves?

        Generally speaking, the gold reserves have the main function - it is a "stash" in case of budget deficit during any crises. The second most important is perhaps the currency for the current regulation of the foreign exchange market.
        Everything is simple with us. The price of oil jumps like your kangaroo, but state programs cannot afford this. Therefore, budgetary revenues from oil / gas above a certain level are not given to the budget "to be devoured", but are removed to the gold reserves. Well, if suddenly the prices fall so that the budget is in short supply - then the "money box" is printed back.
        In fact, gold and foreign exchange reserves could be used for investments within the country, if you approach it wisely, but where there ...
        1. Liam
          Liam 24 February 2021 14: 23
          -3
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Andrey, you as an economist

          ))))))
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Generally speaking, the gold reserves have the main function - it is a "stash" in case of budget deficit during any crises.

          ))))
          And what is for economist Stabilization Fund then)
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 14: 54
            +5
            Quote: Liam
            And what is the Stabilization Fund for an economist then)

            Not the stabilization fund (it has been abolished), but the National Welfare Fund (NWF). At the same time, the part of the NWF denominated in foreign currency and placed by the Russian government on accounts with the Bank of Russia, which it invests in foreign financial assets, is accounted for as part of the International reserves of the Russian Federation. And such reserves are considered part of the gold and foreign exchange reserves
        2. NEOZ
          NEOZ 24 February 2021 15: 07
          -2
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          if you approach it wisely, but where there ...

          Andrey, please answer one more question:
          how is the ruble exchange rate formed?
          ps
          Andrey, these fundamental questions are very important for understanding the competence of the interlocutor.
          PPP
          there were just precedents: it seemed that he had already laid out everything primitively to the interlocutor, and he - "by the way, do you know that there is a conspiracy on earth? - the earth is flat !!!" ....... the curtain .......
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 15: 15
            +4
            Quote: NEOZ
            how is the ruble exchange rate formed?

            Previously, it was controlled by the Central Bank, there was a policy of the currency band, when going beyond certain limits was regulated by the intervention of the Central Bank and a change in the key interest rate (at least, it seemed to the leadership of the Central Bank). Now - formally in a market way, formally, the Central Bank has removed itself from regulation (which is utter nonsense), but practically all the same periodically these interventions are carried out.
            Quote: NEOZ
            Actually, do you know that there is a conspiracy on earth? - the earth is flat !!! "

            Of course, flat, there is no inquisition on you .... :)))))))
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 24 February 2021 15: 54
              -3
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Of course, flat, there is no inquisition on you .... :)))))))

              of course I have!
              I just bought myself an indulgence to spread heresy ...
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Now - formally in a market way, formally, the Central Bank has removed itself from regulation (which is utter nonsense)

              it seems that you do not understand how it works and cannot say why on February 25.02.2021, 1 the rate of 73,7532 US dollar = XNUMX rubles .... or can you?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 16: 26
                +3
                Quote: NEOZ
                it seems that you do not understand how it works

                There is a banal relationship between supply and demand, which in turn is influenced by a host of factors (seasonality, for example, when enterprises sell foreign currency earnings to pay taxes, etc., etc.) and non-market factors represented by the Central Bank. Do you think differently?
                Quote: NEOZ
                and you can't say why on 25.02.2021 the rate is 1 US dollar = 73,7532 rubles .... or can you?

                Theoretically, I can explain this when it comes to the past, and predict with a certain degree of probability it in the future. In practice, I cannot, because for this you have to quit your job and engage in analysis and forecasting.
                1. NEOZ
                  NEOZ 25 February 2021 15: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Do you think differently?

                  yes, I think that:
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  a banal relationship between supply and demand, which in turn is influenced by a host of factors (seasonality, for example, when enterprises sell foreign currency earnings to pay taxes, etc., etc.) and non-market factors represented by the Central Bank.

                  complete stupidity ... from the region - the ruble exchange rate depends on the cost of oil ... or democracy and freedom of speech ensure the well-being of the people ...
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 15: 17
                    +1
                    Quote: NEOZ
                    complete stupidity.

                    OK. Your explanation?
                    1. NEOZ
                      NEOZ 25 February 2021 15: 34
                      0
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      OK. Your explanation?

                      the ruble exchange rate is the ratio of gold and foreign exchange reserves (denominated in dollars) to the ruble mass.
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 15: 47
                        0
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        the ruble exchange rate is the ratio of gold and foreign exchange reserves (denominated in dollars) to the ruble mass.

                        You at least take the trouble to look at the statistics. She you ... how would it be softer ... Shattered does not confirm.
                      2. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 25 February 2021 15: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You at least take the trouble to look at the statistics. She you ... how would it be softer ... Shattered does not confirm.

                        if you look at the statistics, then it does not seem to confirm you to smithereens .... the trade balance in the Russian Federation has been positive for a long time ... accordingly, the ruble exchange rate should constantly strengthen ... but it is the opposite ...
                      3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 08: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        if you look at the statistics, it seems like it does not confirm you to smithereens ...

                        Confirms
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        the trade balance in the Russian Federation has been positive for a long time ... accordingly, the ruble exchange rate should constantly strengthen ...

                        Why do you think so? The trade balance is one thing, but the supply and demand on the exchange is completely different. The trade balance reflects the difference between exports and imports, and you would be right if only they were present on the currency exchange. But in addition to exporters and importers, we also have a state that replenishes or, conversely, sells its gold reserves, and also speculators who play at exchange rates.
                      4. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 26 February 2021 13: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        and supply and demand on the stock exchange is completely different.

                        who needs dollars? - to importers, for the purchase of foreign-made goods.
                        who has dollars? - from exporters. international traffic is traded in dollars.
                        accordingly, we are talking about the trade balance.
                        especially since you previously wrote that the state no longer supports the course.
                        who are the speculators? how do they work?
                        give an example of how it works!
                      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 13: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        who are the speculators? how do they work?

                        To begin with, I will give you an example of a state that simply buys up dollars to increase the gold reserves. It is neither an importer nor an exporter, but foreign exchange reserves in foreign currency have grown by $ 20 billion over the past 432 years.
                        And speculators are stock players who buy currency in order to make money on the difference in rates (bought cheap, sold dear), that is, they buy currency and hold it for a certain time, also not being an importer or exporter.
                        Do not forget also that there are enough people in the Russian Federation who keep their savings in dollars - they are also neither importers nor exporters.
                      6. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 26 February 2021 13: 30
                        -1
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        To begin with, I will give you an example of a state that simply buys up dollars to increase the gold reserves. It is neither an importer nor an exporter,

                        really ????
                        how do dollars get into the country?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And speculators are stock players

                        what does it mean? - IP can be a player ?, and LLC? and AO?
                        what should be done to "play" on the stock exchange?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        who buy currency in order to make money on the difference in rates (bought cheap, sold dear)

                        this is generally a masterpiece !!!!!!
                        look at the annual trade balance (export is supply and import is demand) and
                        growth of the dollar in% from 2000 to 2020 !!!!!!!
                        also please explain how speculators fix their profits? with a constant trading surplus .... according to your theory, the rate should rise sharply when profits are taken by speculators, but this does not happen !!!!!!!!
  • clerk
    clerk 24 February 2021 16: 24
    -1
    ... Generally speaking, the gold reserves have the main function - it is a "stash" in case of budget deficit during any crises. The second most important is perhaps the currency for the current regulation of the foreign exchange market.
    These are all secondary functions - the main (unannounced) function is to ensure the return of external debt by state-owned companies and state-owned banks in the event of sanctions that hinder their access to currency (export ban, for example).
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 16: 31
      +1
      Quote: clerk
      These are all secondary functions - the main (unannounced) function is to ensure the return of external debt by state-owned companies and state-owned banks in the event of sanctions that hinder their access to currency (export ban, for example).

      In this case, it would be absurd to repay debts.
      1. clerk
        clerk 24 February 2021 16: 41
        +1
        ... In this case, it would be absurd to repay debts.
        Who - all? It seems to me that foreign economic relations are somewhat more multifaceted, weeks for the actions of a few take offense at the whole world.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 07: 29
          0
          Quote: clerk
          Who - everyone?

          Who - everyone? :))) Let's say we lost our exports, Europe stopped buying our gas and oil. This is a colossal blow to the budget, the oil and gas industry, etc. Moreover, a blow of such force, which would endanger the very existence of the state, will have to be cut on the living, education, social spending, defense, by itself. And do you seriously think that in this situation, the primary thing is to satisfy the interests of our external creditors? :))))
          1. clerk
            clerk 25 February 2021 08: 51
            0
            In these conditions, the primary task is to ensure critical imports. And not in 3 months, as the IMF advises, but as long as possible. The current gold reserves will be enough for 2 years of imports, if you remove the excesses, then for 3-4 years. I don't think this is outrageous. Again, the debts not to the West also need to be repaid.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 09: 01
              0
              Quote: clerk
              In these conditions, the first task is to ensure critical imports

              One of. Certainly. And it has practically nothing to do with the repayment of debts of state corporations - after all, it is not importing companies that provide loans to us
              1. clerk
                clerk 25 February 2021 11: 54
                0
                ... One of. Certainly. And it has practically nothing to do with the repayment of debts of state corporations - after all, it is not importing companies that provide loans to us
                ... We are comparing different stages of the same process - export ban is an extreme measure. But there are also less rigid ones, which may restrict the access of state-owned companies to foreign exchange resources. Therefore, the objectives of the gold reserves can be ranked and maintaining the ruble exchange rate will be the first only in a quiet time.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 12: 13
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  But there are also less rigid ones, which may restrict the access of state-owned companies to foreign exchange resources.

                  No problem. What kind?:)))
                2. clerk
                  clerk 25 February 2021 13: 22
                  0
                  Yes, the same American sanctions or the arrest of accounts under a far-fetched pretext.
                3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 13: 35
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  Yes, the same American sanctions or the arrest of accounts under a far-fetched pretext.

                  American sanctions cannot in any way prohibit state-owned companies from buying currency on the Russian stock market. Accounts can be arrested only those that are opened in banks outside the Russian Federation, which is completely uncritical.
                4. clerk
                  clerk 25 February 2021 13: 40
                  0
                  It is very critical - it is almost impossible to carry out non-cash payments in foreign currency without going through correspondent accounts in foreign banks such as Bank of New York
                5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 15: 51
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  It is very critical - it is almost impossible to carry out non-cash payments in foreign currency without going through correspondent accounts in foreign banks such as Bank of New York

                  Elementary. The same China
                6. clerk
                  clerk 25 February 2021 16: 47
                  0
                  Only if both banks (!) - the settlement participant have foreign currency accounts in the same (!) Chinese bank.
                7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 07: 48
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  Only if both banks (!) - the settlement participant have foreign currency accounts in the same (!) Chinese bank.

                  Oh, how difficult. And what prevents them from opening there? This is a purely technical operation.
                8. clerk
                  clerk 26 February 2021 12: 19
                  0
                  Nothing. But it costs money and until it gets hot almost everyone works in dollars through American banks. In addition, the Americans can bend private Chinese banks - the Chinese will not substitute for us.
                9. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 12: 26
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  Nothing. But it costs money and until it gets hot almost everyone works in dollars through American banks. In addition, the Americans can bend private Chinese banks - the Chinese will not substitute for us.

                  Evgeny, the banking system is very complex and multifaceted, and the Americans do not control it in such a way as to prohibit the international settlements of any company.
                10. The comment was deleted.
                11. clerk
                  clerk 26 February 2021 12: 37
                  0
                  ... Evgeny, the banking system is very complex and multifaceted, and the Americans do not control it in such a way as to prohibit the international settlements of any company.
                  ... Andrey, with your knowledge and experience, Such naivety is amazing. The banking system is very transparent and if the state decides to press down on the legal entity's settlements, it will do it once in its own country, and once or twice in a dependent country.
                12. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 12: 38
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  The banking system is very transparent, and if the state decides to press down on the legal entity's calculations, it will do it once in its own country, and once or twice in a dependent country.

                  What a blessing that most of the land is still not dependent on the United States :))))
                  Eugene, if a state-owned company sells or buys something, who prevents it from making settlements through any bank in any country? Nothing. And the US global banking system does not report. In some cases, they can still track the movement of the den. funds, but not all. Our banks do not cost anything to conclude interbank agreements with a bank of any country, including those that are not controlled by the United States.
                13. clerk
                  clerk 26 February 2021 13: 06
                  0
                  Andrey, most of the foreign economic settlements in the world are conducted in dollars, and if the United States wants to impose sanctions against a specific company, it will be almost impossible to hide its international settlements in dollars.
  • clerk
    clerk 24 February 2021 16: 17
    -1
    The same Glazyev proposed to ensure a stable exchange rate of the ruble against the dollar (yes, I was not the only one who recommended this :)))))
    We have already discussed this with you - it is quite easy to do it by means of currency regulation, but budget revenues will immediately sink and all import substitutions will collapse. Free cheese only comes in a mousetrap.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 24 February 2021 16: 28
      0
      Quote: clerk
      We have already discussed this with you

      And they did not convince each other of anything.
      Quote: clerk
      it is easy enough to do it by means of currency regulation

      What I disagree with
      Quote: clerk
      but right away if budget revenues drop and all import substitutions collapse.

      With which I disagree all the more.
      Quote: clerk
      Free cheese is only in a mousetrap.

      The allegory is classical, but the stability of the ruble is not cheese. And it's not free.
      1. clerk
        clerk 24 February 2021 16: 34
        0
        Explain - why do you disagree with the fact that it is easy to drop the dollar exchange rate and maintain it at a low level by means of exchange control measures, if it was easy to do in 2000-13? And why do you disagree with the fact that if the foreign exchange rate is low, budget revenues will drop?
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 07: 15
          0
          Quote: clerk
          Explain why you disagree with the fact that the dollar exchange rate is easy to drop and keep at a low level by means of currency regulation

          First, because it never worked. Only in conjunction with direct foreign exchange intervention.
          Quote: clerk
          And why do you disagree with the fact that if the foreign exchange rate is low, budget revenues will drop?

          With this I just agree. But what I disagree with is that the measures to stabilize the ruble should definitely cause it to strengthen against the dollar. Your logic is clear to me - we are introducing ruble management - it is fixed up to 40 rubles / dollar - budget revenues are starting to feel sad. But I do not consider the second point necessary :)
          1. clerk
            clerk 25 February 2021 08: 40
            0
            ... Explain why you do not agree that it is easy to drop the dollar exchange rate and maintain it at a low level by means of currency regulation /////. First, because it never worked. Only in conjunction with direct foreign exchange intervention.
            Here you are greatly mistaken - when it really worked (approximately in 1999-2000, after the abolition of all Yeltsin's exceptions), it took not currency, but ruble interventions so as not to lower the dollar rate below the baseboard.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 08: 59
              +1
              Quote: clerk
              Here you are greatly mistaken - when it really worked (about 1999-2000, after the abolition of all Yeltsin exceptions), it took not currency, but ruble interventions

              I put it wrong, I beg your pardon. They meant both the purchase and the sale of the dollar, of course. The bottom line is that before the default in 1997, the dollar was traded at 5,7 rubles, and in 1998-2000 - already at 9,7 - 28,1 rubles. respectively. After 2000, we also saw a slight increase in the dollar exchange rate.
              Thus, it can hardly be said that "the rate is easy to drop" - he tried to drop to intermediate values ​​between the current and pre-crisis ones, since at that time the ruble was clearly underestimated, but he was not allowed to do so. And this is not the result of currency regulation, it is precisely the underestimation after the "shock therapy" of the crisis. So the ruble, left to itself, began to try to strengthen.
              In our country, it is completely different now - prices in the Russian Federation are brought in line with the current ruble exchange rate, and it, being left to itself (relatively, but still) will not strengthen.
              1. clerk
                clerk 25 February 2021 09: 38
                0
                If we introduce full-fledged measures of currency regulation, then with a balance of demand (about 300) and supply (roughly 400), the dollar rate will creep down. The Central Bank can support it through emission (buying in gold and foreign exchange reserves), but this is harmful from a political point of view (than lending to the United States is better than its gold miners)
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 09: 52
                  0
                  Quote: clerk
                  The Central Bank can support it through emission (buying in gold and foreign exchange reserves), but this is harmful from a political point of view (than lending to the United States is better than its gold miners)

                  First, it is necessary to determine the strategy for the development of the Russian economy. Then - the optimal rate of the ruble against the dollar for this, and then maintain it at the required level.
                  If the ruble strengthens excessively, there is nothing wrong with the issue - let someone own the ruble savings, I see no problems.
          2. clerk
            clerk 25 February 2021 08: 45
            0
            ... Your logic is clear to me - we are introducing ruble management - it is fixed up to 40 rubles / dollar - budget revenues are starting to feel sad. But I do not consider the second point necessary :)
            That is, you propose half-measures to fix the course by the type of a corridor? It's realistic to do it, but why?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 09: 04
              +1
              Quote: clerk
              That is, you propose half-measures to fix the course by the type of a corridor? It's realistic to do it, but why?

              Not even by the type of corridor, but to fix it with revision, say, once a year, or better, once every five years.
              The benefits are obvious - only in a stable ruble will we be able to effectively use the world's financial resources, in addition, the economy of enterprises will become much more predictable, and therefore stable. Well, stability, in this case, is the basis of development.
              1. clerk
                clerk 25 February 2021 09: 42
                -2
                Access to world financial resources is closed by sanctions, and a fixed rate, even at a high level, will have a bad effect on import substitution and it will have to be maintained under conditions that are obviously unfavorable for the treasury (for example, with a downward trend).
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 09: 49
                  +2
                  Quote: clerk
                  Access to global financial resources closed to sanctions

                  Come on! Why did it suddenly close? :) Nobody forbade placing on the same IPO.
                  Quote: clerk
                  and a fixed rate, even at a high level, will have a bad effect on import substitution

                  Why would you? Quite the opposite - it will have a very positive effect.
                  Import substitution requires investment, and our investment climate is near-zero, and the risks associated with a dollar jump are outrageous. That is, in the policy of import substitution, we can rely only on the reserves of our own banks, while our money supply is below low (somewhere twice as low as in Europe per ruble of goods), that is, we simply do not have clear financial reserves. And they are afraid to release them because of inflation.
                  That is, we are at a dead end. In the current economic conditions, an increase in the money supply simulates inflation, and in order to avoid this, it is necessary to modernize the industry, which requires money supply in investments.
                  1. clerk
                    clerk 25 February 2021 11: 08
                    0
                    ... Come on! Why did it suddenly close? :) Nobody forbade placing on the same IPO.
                    EMNP loans were closed for more than a month.
                    ... Import substitution requires investment, and our investment climate is near-zero, and the risks associated with the dollar's jump are outrageous. That is, in the policy of import substitution, we can rely only on the reserves of our own banks, while our money supply is below low (somewhere twice as low as in Europe per ruble of goods), that is, we simply do not have clear financial reserves. AND
                    Our banks have free funds like dirt - they don't know who else to lend a loan to. PMSM The problem is that business is afraid to expand production - most likely there is no staff and is not sure about the future. But not the dollar exchange rate, but the sales market.
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 12: 14
                      0
                      Quote: clerk
                      Our banks have free funds like dirt - they don't know who else to lend a loan to.

                      :))))) You, to put it mildly, are VERY wrong
                    2. clerk
                      clerk 25 February 2021 13: 26
                      0
                      Not. It is you who are captive to the widespread myth that there is a lack of money in the economy in Russia. If it were easy to translate them into real profitable production, they would have done it long ago. Take an interest - how much is invested in government obligations at a penny profitability, how much the population is loaned, how much is invested in agriculture (rates on loans to which are compensated by the state). And only the industry is out of business ...
                    3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 13: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: clerk
                      Not. It is you who are captive to the widespread myth that there is a lack of money in the economy in Russia.

                      I know this "myth" in practice :))) And yes - there are inexorable facts. If you look at the size of the money supply (the last time I looked about a year ago), then we have about 40 kopecks per ruble of manufactured products, and in Germany for euros - 80 cents.
                      Quote: clerk
                      Take an interest - how much is invested in government obligations at a penny profitability, how much the population is loaned, how much is invested in agriculture (rates on loans to which are compensated by the state).

                      Evgeny has nothing to do with the availability and cost of loans.
                    4. clerk
                      clerk 25 February 2021 14: 15
                      0
                      ... I know this "myth" in practice :))) And yet yes - there are inexorable facts. If you look at the size of the money supply (the last time I looked about a year ago), then we have about 40 kopecks per ruble of manufactured products, and in Germany for euros - 80 cents.
                      And how did you single out the money supply in euros, which relates specifically to the German economy?
                    5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 15: 54
                      0
                      Quote: clerk
                      And how did you single out the money supply in euros, which relates specifically to the German economy?

                      Sorry, the M2 unit did it for me
                    6. clerk
                      clerk 25 February 2021 16: 51
                      0
                      M2 separately for the territory of Germany?
                    7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 07: 14
                      +1
                      Quote: clerk
                      M2 separately for the territory of Germany?

                      Of course. The main part of M2 is the money of resident individuals, and a significant part of the cash, again, is in Germany.
                      In the Russian Federation, too, not all ruble cash is located on the territory of the Russian Federation. In general, the difference can be, of course, but not more than 10%
              2. clerk
                clerk 25 February 2021 14: 19
                0
                ... Take an interest - how much is invested in government obligations at a penny profitability, how much the population is loaned, how much is invested in agriculture (interest rates on loans to which are compensated by the state //////: Eugene has NO relation to the availability and cost of loans.
                Of course. This only proves that banks have a fair amount of free money (which I was talking about). But why banks and industry cannot agree on loans - a question for discussion
              3. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 16: 11
                0
                Quote: clerk
                This only proves that banks have a fair amount of free money (which I was talking about).

                Just - no. In no case.
              4. clerk
                clerk 25 February 2021 16: 55
                0
                That's right - there are a lot of free money in banks, but they don't want to lend to the industry. And I can guess why.
              5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 February 2021 07: 46
                0
                Quote: clerk
                Exactly so - there are a lot of free money in banks, but they don't want to lend to the industry

                Eugene, you do not understand now what you are writing about :)
                I'm talking about the high cost of bank loans. You write to me about
                Quote: clerk
                Take an interest - how much is invested in government obligations at a penny profitability

                So this "penny" yield - from 7% to 10,5% per annum for individuals, and OFZ-IN - well, yes, the rate there seems to be scanty, if you do not take into account that the face value of the bond grows by the amount of inflation (roughly). Or with a link to RIONA, which in the same 2018 exceeded 8,5%. So banks in 2018 gave loans to replenish working capital 9,5-9,75%.
                Compare this to US securities, which yield around 2,5-3,5%. keeping the existing denomination constant.
                In general, banks do not have any "penny" securities. They give a slightly lower yield in comparison with loans, well, and the risk is much less, therefore it is not surprising that banks place part of their reserves in them. This is the first thing. And second, our securities are simply arch-profitable against the background of foreign ones - they give a much larger% of income.
                Further. You wrote
                Quote: clerk
                how loaned is the population

                In 2019, the total loan portfolio of Russian banks amounted to 55 trillion. rub. The population's debt on consumer loans is as much as 1,7 trillion. rub. What are you talking about? :) In Germany, by the way, it is about 10 times higher.
                Quote: clerk
                how much do you pay in agriculture (loan rates for which are compensated by the state)

                In 2020, as much as 90 billion rubles were allocated for concessional lending to agriculture.
                Total your conclusion
                Quote: clerk
                Exactly so - there are a lot of free money in banks, but they don't want to lend to the industry

                to put it mildly, it is erroneous, because none of the above points to this.
              6. clerk
                clerk 27 February 2021 11: 28
                0
                ... In 2019, the aggregate loan portfolio of Russian banks amounted to 55 trillion. rub. The population's debt on consumer loans is as much as 1,7 trillion. rub. What are you talking about? :) In Germany, by the way, it is about 10 times higher.
                Your conclusion is based on very incomplete statistics. For 1/2/21, the claims of our banks to non-residents are 60 trillion. rubles, to government agencies in rubles 10 trillion., to financial organizations 13 trillion., to non-financial organizations - 43,5 trillion., to the population - 21,8 trillion. Considering that out of 60 trillion claims to non-residents, 26 trillion. - these are investments in securities (most likely debt obligations of the Russian Federation), then the banks' stock of money for enhanced lending is more than sufficient. Yes, and with the scanty loans to the population, you were mistaken every 12 times - for the average resident of Russia, including the elderly and babies, there are 147 thousand rubles of debt on loans to banks. So the problem is not the lack of money in the country, but the fact that banks and production cannot come to an agreement on the terms of lending
              7. clerk
                clerk 27 February 2021 12: 03
                +1
                ... That's right - there is a lot of free money in banks, but they do not want to lend to the industry
                ///////
                Eugene, you do not understand now what you are writing about :)
                I'm talking about the high cost of bank loans.
                And I'm telling you the same - high rates on loans to production - this is the unwillingness to lend to it. What do you think. - why?
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 16: 56
    0
    Andrey, you don't seem to be a stupid person and you must understand that it doesn't work that way. That the current system was not formed as a result of a conspiracy of insidious Masons or anyone else. And as a result of completely objective processes and all these attempts to build correct capitalism, they are stupidly doomed in the same way due to completely objective reasons. Government regulator, government order. Well what are you talking about. In principle, this is so. And if we move on to state planning, which is more important, the question naturally arises whether Grandfather Marx was so wrong about the future victory of communism and the elimination of market relations. Who needs it? Everything will go on as it always has in history, one day a revolutionary situation will arise, but the upper classes will not be able to and rushed.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 07: 54
      +1
      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
      And as a result of completely objective processes and all these attempts to build correct capitalism, they are stupidly doomed in the same way due to completely objective reasons.

      Not at all. The first problem is that nobody has ever built correct capitalism in our country. We scrupulously made, it seems, every mistake we could.
      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
      Government regulator, government order. Well what are you talking about. In principle, this is so.

      No. There is no state development strategy, measurable and achievable goals are not set (the fact that the GDP is chatting to the federal assembly is an unrelated set of good wishes, the implementation of which no one controls), work to achieve them is not organized, etc.
      The market does not negate the existence of a plan, any company will tell you this (budgeting is now everywhere, with rare exceptions), but the state does not have a plan. We are sailing at the behest of the waves, as it is, in the ice-hole, under the guidance of the Great Helmsman, who is only concerned that "the boat is not rocked." wassat
  • Dante Alighieri
    Dante Alighieri 24 February 2021 20: 10
    +6
    Andrey, welcome hi
    Glazyev proposed a PLAN. A plan how to get the country out of the abyss into which it falls. Moreover, he clearly outlined what would happen if the measures proposed by him and his team of co-authors were not taken. But who will listen to him, because he is nothing more than a scarecrow for the liberal-Yeltsin bloc of our ilika. Like, look: if you will be buzzing, we will get Glazyev out of the mezzanine and he will show you what a "progressive tax" is. At the same time, please note that even the word "PLAN" is cut out of everyday use in every possible way: wherever you spit, there are continuous "road maps" everywhere, as is usual with bumps and holes. And there are no plans. Tea is not bloody communists, nevertheless, but progressive European Europeans, whom it is useless to argue in such totalitarian categories, and even with the indication of specific performers with whom you can always "ask".

    In general, I always admired Sergei Yuryevich, not only in his consistency and loyalty to the declared position, but also in how he knows how to gather talented people around him. The same so-called "Glazyev's Plan", in addition to himself, was written by another 13 people, among whom were not only economists, but also lawyers and sociologists. It was a real scientific and analytical LABOR, covering all the main aspects of the life of society, including an analysis of the current situation, its extrapolation into the future with the most likely consequences, and measures aimed at correcting the current trend, again with the projection of the results of each decision made not only on the economic , but also on the socio-demographic state of the country.
  • Kronos
    Kronos 24 February 2021 10: 11
    +13
    Again, the wolves are suggested not to shear the sheep.
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 24 February 2021 10: 19
      +15
      And naive dreamers suggest stopping the export of capital ... It's like a sickle to a vital organ for them.
      1. clerk
        clerk 24 February 2021 16: 11
        -3
        ... And naive dreamers suggest stopping the export of capital ...
        Rather, banal ignoramuses who simply do not know what this term means and unknowingly associate it with embezzlement (warm with soft).
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 February 2021 17: 28
        +1
        What do you mean by the export of capital?
    2. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 24 February 2021 10: 40
      +9
      Quote: Kronos
      Again, the wolves are suggested not to shear the sheep.

      While they continue to practice speaking while eating ... yes
      - In my opinion, this is reasonable! - said the leader. - Well said! Why didn't you bellow before, didn't you calf ?!
      - So before we ate in silence, not offering to speak, - the old ram sighed.
      “Thank God, it's all in the past,” said the leader.
  • Sofa
    Sofa 24 February 2021 10: 11
    +2
    I completely agree with the author. There would be more of them in the government, then you look and they would start developing.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 13
      -6
      Quote: Couch
      There would be more of those in the government, then you look and they would start developing.

      what if you're wrong? what is the cost of a mistake?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 24 February 2021 14: 42
          -8
          Quote: Couch
          "They learn from mistakes" you know this saying.

          Is it 1917 a mistake?
          from 1918-1922 how many millions died, mistake? street children 4-6 mln. children (their parents were killed), a mistake?
          since 1985 rebuilding mistake?
          since 1991 the collapse of the USSR is a mistake?

          still want to learn from mistakes? are you still not enough?
          ps
          can study better at institutes?
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 24 February 2021 17: 04
            +4
            You have to do nothing at all, then nothing will happen. Is this the correct recipe?
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 08: 03
            +4
            Quote: NEOZ
            Is it 1917 a mistake?

            Historical pattern.
            Quote: NEOZ
            from 1918-1922 how many millions died, mistake?

            Wrong. This is a consequence of the mistakes that resulted in 1917.
            Quote: NEOZ
            street children 4-6 mln. children (their parents were killed), a mistake?

            And the millions of surviving children who did not die in infancy due to the fact that in the early USSR they introduced medical care for all segments of the population - is this nonsense, not worthy of attention?
            Quote: NEOZ
            since 1985 rebuilding mistake?

            The consequence of errors in public administration since the 50s.
            Quote: NEOZ
            since 1991 the collapse of the USSR is a mistake?

            Definitely.
            Quote: NEOZ
            still want to learn from mistakes? are you still not enough?

            Alas, this is the norm. Humanity learns from its mistakes.
            Quote: NEOZ
            can study better at institutes?

            "When most of the theory is out of your head, and practical knowledge takes its place, perhaps you will justify half of your salary" (c)
            This is not taught in institutes, and never taught.
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 25 February 2021 15: 05
              -1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Quote: NEOZ
              Is it 1917 a mistake?

              Historical pattern.
              Quote: NEOZ
              from 1918-1922 how many millions died, mistake?

              Wrong. This is a consequence of the mistakes that resulted in 1917.
              Quote: NEOZ
              street children 4-6 mln. children (their parents were killed), a mistake?

              you have one contradicts the other !!!! so regularity or error?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 25 February 2021 15: 16
                +1
                Quote: NEOZ
                you have one contradicts another !!!

                Nothing. 1917 is a pattern that arose as a result of mistakes made earlier. What's incomprehensible?
  • prior
    prior 24 February 2021 10: 13
    +7
    Why are we surprised ?! However, no one is surprised for a long time.
    Traders in power are not power, they are a sale of the Motherland.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 13
      -5
      Quote: prior
      Traders in power are not power, they are a sale of the Motherland.

      how would you like? describe the ideal system in the Russian Federation!
      1. prior
        prior 24 February 2021 13: 20
        +4
        The answer to your question is on your avatar.
        And they won the war, and the country was restored, and the bomb was made, and they flew into space ...
        And the fact that the USSR was a superpower was not in doubt.
        The abolition of private ownership of the means of production will solve all problems or almost all.
        Market, capitalism, democracy are criminal by definition.
        1. NEOZ
          NEOZ 24 February 2021 14: 04
          -6
          Quote: prior
          And they won the war, and the country was restored, and the bomb was made, and they flew into space ...
          And the fact that the USSR was a superpower was not in doubt.
          The abolition of private ownership of the means of production will solve all problems or almost all.

          and how did it happen that such a country ceased to exist?
          all problems were solved (almost)! was a superpower! they built everything!
          How did it happen that such a country collapsed by itself?
          1. prior
            prior 24 February 2021 14: 14
            +6
            You can betray everything and the country too. Do you remember the results of the referendum on the union state?
            The people said yes to the Soviet Union.
            And what did Judas Gorbachev do with the drunk Yeltsin? Who gave them the authority to destroy the country in Belovezhskaya Pushcha? And there is no need to justify repeating the stupidity of those who now claim that the country has collapsed by itself. If the issue of the rotation of power had been resolved in the Brezhnev USSR, we would live in a different country today.
            And enough discussions, you asked - I answered.
            1. NEOZ
              NEOZ 24 February 2021 14: 58
              -4
              Quote: prior
              And enough discussions, you asked - I answered.

              no no!
              during the discussion, the most interesting is born !!!!! I propose to continue !!!!
              Quote: prior
              You can betray everything and the country too.

              and what were the motives of the traitors? we, as investigators, must understand the motive, what was the motive of the traitors?
              Quote: prior
              The people said yes to the Soviet Union.

              and why the People who said "YES" did not answer when they said "NO"? ...
              neither the KGB / MVD / VS and other services ... all were silent ... but the "whites" fought with the "reds" for their ideas (ideals), why in 1918 the people died for their ideas, and in 1991 not ?
              Quote: prior
              Who gave them the authority to destroy the country in Belovezhskaya Pushcha?

              we gave them ... no one began to save the USSR ... with the tacit consent of the people, everything happened.
              Quote: prior
              And there is no need to justify repeating the stupidity of those who now claim that the country has collapsed by itself.

              did it ever occur to you that you are writing nonsense? ...
              Quote: prior
              If the issue of the rotation of power had been resolved in the Brezhnev USSR, we would live in a different country today.

              if only ...
              Brezhnev's USSR is a consequence of Khrushchev ... everything has a cause-and-effect relationship ...
  • rocket757
    rocket757 24 February 2021 10: 16
    +1
    What to do

    First, you need ..........

    And who does not agree, interferes with doing that sho should be ???
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 15
      -3
      Quote: rocket757
      And who does not agree, interferes with doing that sho should be ???

      I do not agree...
      advice to give all much ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 24 February 2021 13: 24
        +1
        You are, of course, busy with business ...
        However, we are all in the same boat or ... on the same sofa.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 24 February 2021 10: 16
    +7
    Let me remind you that problems with food (bread) became the reason for the February riots in Petrograd in 1917. And they led to the February Revolution, the fall of the autocracy and the collapse of the Russian Empire.

    Something familiar - sugar, vodka, soap on coupons, sausage "in one hand 300 grams", and prices went up.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 24 February 2021 13: 16
      -5
      Quote: tihonmarine
      Something familiar - sugar, vodka, soap on coupons, sausage "in one hand 300 grams", and prices went up.

      and what? ...... the collapse of the USSR?
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 24 February 2021 15: 32
        0
        Quote: NEOZ
        and what? ...... the collapse of the USSR?

        In my time it was like that.
  • Destiny
    Destiny 24 February 2021 10: 16
    +13
    full-blooded restoration of the Soviet system of upbringing and education: secondary school, art, music schools, houses of creativity and culture, circles, etc. All free of charge, at the expense of the state.

    Restoring the Soviet health care system would not have been superfluous either.
  • Virus-free crown
    Virus-free crown 24 February 2021 10: 17
    +2
    Revolutionary sentiments, especially among young people, are growing. And the authorities do nothing special, except ascertaining the fact of problems.

    And then we will be surprised ... if there is anyone to be surprised ... recourse
  • exo
    exo 24 February 2021 10: 19
    +7
    It's a pity there won't be any changes. It's easier to blame everything on the machinations of enemies.
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 24 February 2021 10: 19
    +5
    For another 15 years, Belousov in his article "Scenarios of Russia's Economic Development for a Fifteen Year Perspective" attributed the growth of incomes of the population to risks) The article has built the following chain of "causes and effects"

    Social trend - An increase in the population that makes up the "middle class", its revolutionizing impact on consumption standards and patterns
    (I.e.
    Risks for Russia
    (I.e.
    switching demand to high-quality imported goods, reducing the role of low prices as a factor of competitiveness and narrowing the market niches occupied by Russian goods;

    as well as

    increased social conflict and the growth of claims for an increase in wages, which exceeds the capabilities of companies to increase labor productivity;

    The doctor of sciences explained to the bosses that if people begin to live better, they will not be able to snatch in cheap junk and they will also want to receive humanly. Or even they will leave - there, among the risks, it is named "increased emigration activity of the middle class"

    Well, what's wrong?

    The masters of Russia understood the doctor of sciences correctly and decided that there will be no “middle class” for you, you will receive at a minimum, buy Russian and no “revolutionizing impact on standards and models”. Whoever doesn't like it - can go to all four directions.

    For the sake of fairness, let's say - Belousov did not advise necessarily to push the "middle class", he offered a choice of development scenarios (and very curious, for example, predicting the crisis events of 2008-09 and 2011-12). The masters of the country made conclusions from his scenarios, and we see the results around us.

    https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/stsenarii-ekonomicheskogo-razvitiya-rossii-na-pyatnadtsatiletnyuyu-perspektivu - сама статья здесь, текст объемный, но интересный.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 11: 25
      +2
      if people start to live better, then they will not get into cheap junk
      That is, Chinese imports.
      Or even they will leave - there, among the risks, it is named "increased emigration activity of the middle class"
      Arriving over the hill, representatives of the middle class will be disappointed - they will hardly become the middle class "there". Therefore, those who want to leave will think carefully and will not go anywhere.
      1. your1970
        your1970 24 February 2021 12: 44
        +3
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Arriving over the hill, representatives of the middle class will be disappointed - they will hardly become the middle class "there". Therefore, those who want to leave will think carefully and will not go anywhere.

        The queue for renouncing American citizenship is not observed, alas ...
        Units ....
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 12: 49
          +2
          The queue for renouncing American citizenship - alas, not observed
          It will come in handy on the farm. But many dumpers have overestimated (often very even) ideas about their potential well-being and career prospects “there”. If at least partially those are achievable in Russia, then there will be significantly fewer people willing to "dump".
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 24 February 2021 13: 02
        +5
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        Arriving over the hill, representatives of the middle class will be disappointed - they will hardly become the middle class "there". Therefore, those who want to leave will think carefully and will not go anywhere.

        It depends on the profession. Programmers are easy. Welders (good) also feel good everywhere)).
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 13: 06
          +1
          Programmers are easy.
          They don't even need to go anywhere.
          Welders (good)
          It's more difficult for these guys - they need to be certified again, and even less and less are being brewed by hand. Plus, welders and programmers in developed countries also have their own.
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 24 February 2021 13: 28
            +4
            They leave when programmers have a family. The quality of medicine, products, etc.
            Welders - depending on where and what country they are talking about.
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 13: 37
              0
              It is often preferable for a programmer to live in Sochi with a salary from San Francisco. It is more difficult for a welder again, and he needs to know the language. And robots are brewed almost everywhere in developed countries - their hands do not tremble laughing due to absence.
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 24 February 2021 13: 57
                +6
                Not family - of course. And when children appear and you first find yourself with them in the Krasnodar Regional Infectious Disease because of the rotovirus, you start to think differently. There is money, but you can't buy a functional bed for the department, nurses wring the kids' hands to install the system, etc.
                Therefore - figs with them, with money, the main thing is health, including mental health, youngsters, and the fact that life is more expensive - in the American outback next to a good children's medical center (and prices in any Missouri are not very different from those in Sochi, and something cheaper), or in Vienna (the best city in the world, the Mercer version) - the tenth thing.
                About welders - both robot operators and handy guys are needed for work where the robot is powerless laughing Language knowledge is needed at an elementary level.
                It's like in medicine - not all operations are performed by Da Vinci
                1. Bolt cutter
                  Bolt cutter 24 February 2021 14: 08
                  +3
                  About welders - we need both robot operators and handy guys for work
                  The prestige of blue-collar occupations in developed countries is much higher, and going to college as a welder or mechanic is not a "zap" for local C grade students. Therefore, there are enough of their own bolmen.
                  Language knowledge is needed at an elementary level
                  I saw myself two Moldovans with a tongue at an elementary level - instead of cleaning the wall from plaster, they took it apart - they had to jack it up so that the house would not collapse wassat
                  figs with them, with money, the main thing is health, mental
                  Maybe, but for money, they will do at least well in Russia.
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 24 February 2021 14: 37