Military Review

"The fifth wheel": the role of the zemstvo in the history of Russia

241

"Zemstvo is having lunch." Painting by Grigory Myasoedov, completed in 1872. Stored in the State Tretyakov Gallery in Moscow


"When studying stories I noticed that in the historical literature the zemstvo movement (the reasons for its formation, its role in expanding state borders) and the issues of the Stalinist economy (after the notorious XX Congress, this topic is apparently still banned) is very poorly sanctified in the historical literature ... "
typer-zoom (Alias ​​TZ)

Bear the burden of whites, -
Reap all the benefits:
Scolding those who have been raised
You are lush gardens
And the anger of those who
(So ​​slow, alas!)
With such patience for the light
You dragged out of the darkness.
(R. Kipling. Translated by M. Frohman)

Milestones in history. Let's start with the epigraph, which says that the topic of the Zemstvo movement is of interest to some VO readers. As well as the theme of the Stalinist economy. Moreover, there is nothing forbidden, by the way, in it. There are many different works. You just need to search. But I am personally not interested in economics. But regarding the history of the zemstvo, it was even necessary to supervise a graduate student, who considered the zemstvo movement in her dissertation. So I know something about him. And what do we usually know about the zemstvo? Basically what Lenin called him "the fifth wheel in the cart of the tsarist autocracy." But how could we learn about this a little more in detail, maybe then something interesting will also be discovered? For example, that the zemstvo in Russia has deep historical roots, and that the sovereign himself, the first Romanov, owed his power not to anyone, namely the Zemsky Sobor, which met in 1613. And only with the strengthening of absolutism in Russia, the role of zemstvo self-government fell to almost zero. And suddenly ... again, why would it be? By the way, one could recommend reading Lenin's work "The Persecutors of the Zemstvo and the Annibals of Liberalism," but it has 76 pages and it is clearly polemical in nature. And today the polemic of that time is not particularly interesting to us. But it makes sense to get acquainted with the facts. So…

Empire and Self-Government: Friends or Foes?


Among the great reforms that Alexander II the Liberator carried out in Russia in the 60-70s. XIX century, the Zemstvo reform occupies a very important place, and no wonder. After all, it, in fact, gave rise to local self-government in Russia. And that was very important. No wonder the well-known Slavophile Aksakov said that the Russian people are not statesmen. He expresses his opinion about power, but he does not want to rule over himself, which is why various impostors are so easy on his neck and sit down. But here it was the best thing - the opportunity for teaching such self-government opened up. However, it was in Russia (if the Zemsky Sobor planted the first Romanov as king!) Even ... before Peter I, who actually reduced him to zero. Governors and voivods - this is who now was the power on the ground, and under Catherine II, the captain-police officers became such. Although Catherine gave a lot of powers to assemblies of nobility with elected leaders at the head, this was also self-government, but limited, of a class character.

But at the same time, self-government existed in the village. Nobody canceled it there. The rural "world" decided all pressing issues and elected representatives for the volost gathering. There were village elders, and with them scribes. Only state peasants could participate in volost affairs, but after 1861 this right extended to all peasants.

Moreover, the zemstvo was created not in a hurry, but in great detail. At the beginning of 1859, Alexander II created a commission that was entrusted with developing a project for the organization of zemstvo institutions. The Commission was told the following:

"It is necessary to provide the economic self-government in the county with greater unity, greater independence and greater confidence."

The leadership was entrusted to the Minister of Internal Affairs P. A. Valuev, moreover, the tsar demanded from him that this "case" be completed without fail before January 1, 1864. And as it was indicated, they did so: the "Statute on Zemstvo Institutions" was approved on time.

According to the position, persons of all estates, who within their district had land or other property, as well as peasant societies, were given the right, through elected officials, elected to district and provincial zemstvo assemblies, to participate in various economic affairs. Zemstvo councils - provincial and district councils were to conduct business directly. Now the zemstvos, and not the state, had to take care of the most important local objects, be it roads, supplying the population with food, public education and health care. Where to get the zemstvo for all this money? Well - they thought about this too, giving the zemstvos the right to special "zemstvo fees." It is clear that the first place in the zemstvo assemblies was given to the nobles as the most educated people, experienced in management matters and ... financially secure. However, there were also zemstvos, in which peasants predominated among the electives (Vyatka zemstvo, Perm). And it was through work in the zemstvos that the peasants learned to feel not only subjects, but also citizens of their country.

The process is lengthy, but extremely necessary


Zemstvo, again, was not immediately introduced in Russia. The first zemstvos were created in the Samara province in February 1865, and then in 17 other provinces. At the time of the death of Alexander II, the zemstvos were already in 33 provinces of the European part of Russia. However, zemstvos were not created in the 12 western provinces and in the very rarely inhabited Astrakhan and Arkhangelsk provinces. There were none in the areas of compact settlement of the Cossacks. They had their own self-government, and it was not canceled.

Zemstvos were very actively engaged in medical work, so much so that in 1877 Alexander II expressed gratitude to many zemstvos for this. Why exactly in 1877? So there was a war, and zemstvos opened many hospitals throughout the country and organized a collection of funds and things to help the wounded soldiers. And if in state hospitals the main contingent of medical personnel were men, then in zemstvo hospitals - women, and it turned out that their effectiveness not only did not decrease, but, on the contrary, increased! The classics of our Russian literature A.P. Chekhov and M.A.Bulgakov, who themselves were zemstvo doctors and knew well all their troubles, problems and joys, excellently wrote about zemstvo medicine. For example, MA Bulgakov wrote a simply wonderful cycle of stories "Notes of a Young Doctor", first published in 1925-1926 on the pages of the magazines "Medical Worker" and "Red Panorama".

As for A.P. Chekhov, according to the opinion of the zemstvo doctor of the Serpukhov zemstvo P.I. Kurkin,

“Chekhov was an ideal zemstvo doctor. He combined a doctor and a social activist, a scientist and a practitioner. "

While practicing in Melikhovo, he tried to establish a special institute for skin diseases in Moscow, but at the same time asked him to keep his "interference in the fate of Moscow medicine" a secret. And here is what he wrote on the pages of his notebook:

"Poor doctors and paramedics do not even have the consolation to think that they are serving the same idea, since they are constantly thinking about a salary, about a piece of bread."

Nevertheless, for the peasants, who were then treated mainly by female healers, even the help of the very limited means and capabilities of the zemstvo doctors was a real gift of God, which saved many human lives.

The problem of primary education in the Russian Empire and zemstvo schools


It was in the hands of the zemstvo that most of the primary public education was located. The program of the zemstvo schools provided for the study of the Law of God, the Church Slavonic language, the basics of Russian grammar and literature, arithmetic, drawing, singing, and also, although not always and everywhere, lessons in native history, geography and natural science were conducted. In rural schools, knowledge of agronomy was imparted to children. The textbooks and programs of the zemstvo schools were made by such outstanding teachers of Russia as K.A.Ushinsky, F.E.Korsh and F.I.Bulgakov. Accordingly, special teacher's seminaries were created for the children of the zemstvo, designed for four years of study, so that they would prepare teachers for zemstvo schools, Sunday schools for adults were opened, libraries, reading rooms were created, and traveling pedagogical exhibitions were held. This work (as well as the learning process itself) is described in a very interesting way in the book by I. D. Vasilenko "The Life and Adventures of Zamorysh".

There were two types of zemstvo schools: one-class, designed for a three-year period of study and for fifty students with one teacher (just such a school is described in Vasilenko's book), and two-class, where the course was already four years old, there were more than 50 students and two teachers. Accordingly, everything here depended on the size of the village, the number of school-age children and, of course, on the financial situation of the zemstvo council of the local volost.

In the first decade alone, more than 10 thousand zemstvo schools appeared in Russia. By 1911, there were already 27 of these schools, by 486 there were more than 1914, that is, in fact, universal primary education in the country was introduced de facto and precisely through the efforts not of the state, but of the zemstvo! At the beginning of the 40th century, a zemstvo teacher earned 30 rubles a month; and with five years of service it is already 37 rubles 50 kopecks. Moreover, 5 rubles were paid to him by the provincial zemstvo and 2 rubles and a half to the district zemstvo. At that time, a class lady received 30 rubles without lessons in a state gymnasium. But she rented an apartment, and the zemstvo teacher was provided with state-owned housing (as a rule, it was a separate room in the school building itself), or if he rented an apartment in the village, then this rented housing was paid to him. Well, the prices again ... At the beginning of the twentieth century in the county towns were as follows: fifty dollars allowed to buy on the market two "chickens" (young chickens who were not honored to become layers and by no means the bluish-skinny appearance we know!), Two buns "franzolki "(They still exist - twisted ones, toasted with a greased egg) and heels of eggs. That is, it was possible to feed, and even not bad at all. In addition, in the village everything was even cheaper, and the teachers, like the priests, and the village clerk were accepted to "carry". A little, but ... and no worse than the others brought.

Counter-reforms ... and again reforms


After the assassination of Alexander II, Alexander III tried to put the activities of the zemstvos under strict control, since it was argued that, using the zemstvos as a cover, both liberals and even revolutionaries conduct agitation harmful to the state through them. The post of zemstvo chiefs, responsible to the government, was introduced, and strict supervision was established for teaching in zemstvo schools so that no sedition would seep there. On the other hand, the zemstvo institutions did not suffer any damage neither in the economic, nor in the medical, nor in veterinary and agronomy spheres. Moreover, in the early 1890s. state aid to zemstvos was already about 60 million rubles a year. Then the zemstvos themselves decided. They spent about a third of this amount on medical care for the population, and one-sixth on public education.

Nicholas II continued the practice of creating zemstvo institutions in Russia. In 1897, he approved the project of the Minister of Internal Affairs I. L. Goremykin to extend them to the Arkhangelsk, Astrakhan, Orenburg and Stavropol provinces. It was decided to create provincial zemstvo assemblies in nine western Russian provinces, as well as in Transcaucasia.

When the First World War began, the zemstvos organized a wide network of hospitals, in which, again, women worked for the most part: both as doctors, and paramedics, and sisters, since male doctors were drafted into the army. It quickly became clear that the supply of the army was far from being the best, and the zemstvos were also engaged in correcting the situation. It got to the point that the government gave them even a part of the military orders, and ... their execution was immediately adjusted.

There were no epidemics either in the Russian army or in the rear during the war years, which is the great merit of the zemstvo. The zemstvo also created the famous "briefings" - the so-called "flying squads" of doctors and nurses, who provided the fastest possible assistance to the wounded - a kind of Russian version of the "MES hospital". They were picked up on the battlefields, quickly bandaged and placed in temporary hospitals. And for all this, it was not the army hospitals and doctors who were responsible, but the zemstvo hospitals, which seriously reduced the burden on the army medical staff.

The Main Committee for the Supply of the Army of the All-Russian Zemstvo and City Union (Zemgor) was created, which decided to supply the army with everything it needed, from provisions to shells, to take into its own hands. But the government was afraid of such dependence on "society" and agreed to transfer to it only the execution of intermediary functions.

"Are you going quietly" and everything will end with a revolution?


Zemstvos kept extremely complete statistics, which became the basis of Russian economic science, gave loans, albeit small ones, to peasants, zemstvo lawyers defended the rights of peasants in courts and quite often successfully. That is, slowly, yes - and no one argues with this, but the Russian society was rightly convinced that the people can solve their problems on their own, without the intervention of the state, and that such interference on their part is far from healthy. And it turned out that the very creators of Russian reforms forced people to think about a very important question: what is more important in the country - the power of the sovereign or its citizens themselves, and is it possible to somehow limit his excessive power somehow?

Naturally, the Bolsheviks, having come to power, could not admit the existence in their country of such effective, and most importantly, self-government bodies independent of them. Therefore, in 1918, zemstvo institutions of all levels and directions - both conservative and liberal - were liquidated everywhere, their finances were transferred to the respective Soviets, and all zemstvo schools, paramedic posts and hospitals became state-owned overnight.

Recommended reading for self-reading:

1. Cultural and educational activities of the Samara zemstvo in the second half of the 07.00.02th - early 1999th centuries. The topic of the dissertation and author's abstract for the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation XNUMX, Candidate of Historical Sciences Turganova, Olga Vladimirovna, XNUMX, Samara
2. Activity of district zemstvos of Central Russia in the second half of the XIX - early XX centuries: on the example of the Rostov zemstvo. The topic of the dissertation and author's abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Stepanov, Konstantin Anatolyevich, 2007, Yaroslavl
3. Activities of the county zemstvo for the development of health care and education in the Nizhny Novgorod province in the second half of the 07.00.02th century. The topic of the dissertation and author's abstract for the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 2011, Candidate of Historical Sciences Mustafin, Rais Rifatovich, XNUMX, Nizhny Novgorod
4. Credit and financial activities of zemstvos in the second half of the XIX - early XX centuries: based on the materials of the Samara, Saratov and Simbirsk provinces. The topic of the dissertation and author's abstract on the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Andreev, Sergey Alekseevich, 2010, Ulyanovsk
5. Penza provincial press on the activities of the zemstvo in the period from 1864 to 1917: On the example of "Penza provincial vedomosti" and "Bulletin of the Penza zemstvo." The topic of the dissertation and author's abstract for the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Candidate of Historical Sciences Piterova, Anna Yurevna, 2005, Penza
6. Zemstvos in Russia, 1905 - February 1917: Experience of org. and kultur.-households. Activities. The topic of the dissertation and the abstract for the Higher Attestation Commission of the Russian Federation 07.00.02, Doctor of Historical Sciences Abramov, Vitaly Fionovich, 1998, Moscow (this work is distinguished by a special completeness and meaningfulness - V.O.)
Monograph: Gerasimenko G.A.Zemstvo self-government in Russia. Moscow: Nauka, 1990 .-- 264 p.
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  1. paco.soto
    paco.soto 3 March 2021 04: 34
    +4
    Vyacheslav, I read it and now I take it and thank you for the article (and especially for the recommended literature)!
    Laughing: offtop - if you suddenly have a "burning ears syndrome, then someone remembers", then it will be my Wife (loaded gun ™) to be indignant at my reading. I ask you to open the YouTube channel! and read your articles there !!! A very convenient format for expanding readers will be.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 05: 00
      +5
      I join the kind words about the work of the Author!
      Although I will insert "five cents".
      Vyacheslav Olegovich revealed only the positive features of the “zemstvo”. Such a view from the side of the intelligentsia and the local nobility.
      And if we look not through the eyes of Bulgakov and Chekhov, but Myasoedov?
      After all, the picture "Zemstvo is having dinner", which has become an illustration for this article of a thinking person, makes you wonder if everything is so "blissful"?
      1. paco.soto
        paco.soto 3 March 2021 05: 23
        +4
        Zemstvo is having dinner ”, which became an illustration to this article of a thinking person, makes one think, is everything so“ blissful ”?
        Laughing: "I got the hint"!
    2. kalibr
      3 March 2021 06: 27
      +5
      Quote: paco.soto
      I ask you to open the YouTube channel! and read your articles there !!!

      Will not work! Alas! Although I know that I could - for 10 years I have been conducting my own live TV programs. But ... and when then to write? Yesterday I spent a whole day over an article of only 8056 characters ... I became old, a bunch of sores, I need to help my wife with the housework (she's not young either), in a word - the time of YouTube is gone for me.
      1. paco.soto
        paco.soto 3 March 2021 06: 51
        +7
        youtube time ©
        If possible, in a brave voice: put aside such assessments of reality !!! For some reason, we all do not get younger, just in case.
        Recently I took a metaphorical photo in a restaurant here.

        I apologize for the familiarity!
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 3 March 2021 20: 09
          +3
          All the way. There is nothing to apologize for
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 3 March 2021 20: 08
        +4
        "it's gone for me the time of YouTube" Oh, you and I are already more than half a century old, I am younger, and indeed we are already old people (although I consider myself still relatively young) to show off on YouTube.
        I admit YouTube because of old films, it's nice to revisit old pictures, and I IGNORE all newfangled bloggers. What: "Stalingrad TV", what "Rain", what else. They seem to me: "momentary", but to reconsider: "Children of Captain Grant" (pre-war film adaptation), "Two Fedora", "Peter 1", an old film adaptation, even for children: "Dzhulbars", "Aqualungs at the bottom." Do you remember everything? How many wonderful films!
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 20: 31
          +3
          Check out the Australian TV series The Wizard - it's for kids, but very high quality. You'll like it. And he has a continuation - the Land of the Great Dragon.
  2. Far B
    Far B 3 March 2021 04: 39
    +8
    Among the great reforms that Alexander II the Liberator carried out in Russia in the 60-70s
    The greatness of these reforms is highly controversial. The coverage of the affected spheres of state life is, yes, great. Execution ... Well, so, on the C, here and there with a fat minus. Zemstvo is no exception.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 05: 10
      +5
      I am not a fan of Alexander II, but I must pay tribute, unlike his father, who tried to improve the serf system, he plucked up courage and cut the "Gordeev knot" of serfdom.
      The fact that she is a "C", and how many reforms in Russia have been carried out perfectly well?
      Regards, Kote!
      1. Far B
        Far B 3 March 2021 05: 33
        +4
        Good day, Kote)
        he plucked up courage and cut the "Gordeev knot" of serfdom
        I believe that there was simply nowhere to postpone further. And I remember that at first he was really going to cut this knot. But then somehow it didn't work out, and in the end he practically rubbed it with toothless gums. It, of course, is also at least something, but not that, not that ...
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 06: 32
          +5
          Quote: Dalny V
          but not that, not that ...

          For "that" he was killed!
          1. Far B
            Far B 3 March 2021 06: 40
            +2
            For "that" he was killed!
            Seven times in a row crying
            1. kalibr
              3 March 2021 06: 53
              +5
              Quote: Dalny V
              Seven times in a row

              Mikhail, now everything is there. You can look on the Internet for what exactly it was supposed to kill him in all the assassination attempts.
              1. Far B
                Far B 3 March 2021 07: 50
                +1
                Hmm. The sarcasm was not understood. Sadness.
      2. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 3 March 2021 09: 02
        +5
        Reforms and Russia, it has always been a bad match. We have everything from a jerk, when it is completely hot.
        Remembered an old army joke
        "Approach to the projectile ex.
        Exercise failed.
        Departure from the projectile ex.
        Overall assessment of the chorus. "
        This is how the reforms are assessed in our country.
      3. antivirus
        antivirus 3 March 2021 10: 06
        +8
        everything accumulates and is spent gradually - and any war with a rapid consumption of resources has its own time period. as a result of the country's development, including the zemstvo.
        INTRODUCED THE LAND LATE AND WORKED THEY WEAK ---- FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF SOCIETY, PEOPLES AND THE STATE AS A WHOLE. relative to the states around us ..
        maneuvered, maneuvered but did not dance (?). immediately and approached 17 g.
        literacy is not yet education, single "Chekhov and Co" are not the Central Regional Hospital and the SES.
        40 years and where are the personnel for the development of the zemstvo? Half measures did not save the country from disaster.
    2. kalibr
      3 March 2021 06: 30
      +3
      Quote: Dalny V
      Execution ...

      And our performance has always been bad. For the people, but without the people, and at the expense of the people! Always with tension and overstrain of his forces! But this does not negate the greatness of the reforms, we still feel all their consequences and, by the way, their negative consequences too.
      1. Far B
        Far B 3 March 2021 06: 41
        +3
        But this does not change the greatness of the reforms
        The greatness of many of daddy's reforms (along with the reforms themselves) was canceled by his son, nicknamed the Peacemaker, yes.
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 06: 51
          +3
          Quote: Dalny V
          отмениР»

          He has not canceled. This is a simplification to think so. Made it somewhat less effective.
          1. Far B
            Far B 3 March 2021 07: 49
            +3
            Renewal of censorship of the press and the closure of a number of print media - not canceling? The law on cook's children - not repeal? For the rest, I wrote that he canceled the greatness of the reforms, and not the reforms themselves, takshta ...
      2. Richard
        Richard 3 March 2021 10: 05
        +7
        Even such a notion as a district doctor was left to us as a "legacy" from the zemstvo
        One of the important aspects of the work of the zemstvo was the creation of a system of medical care. Its organization was essentially as follows: uyezds were divided into sections (sometimes 4-5 per uyezd), each section was headed by a doctor invited by the zemstvo; for the reception of outpatients, for the accommodation of those in need of hospital treatment, there were zemstvo hospitals or emergency rooms in each section; treatment, patient care was free; on average, there are about 10-15 thousand people per district doctor, and the visits of doctors were very large. Assistants of zemstvo doctors were paramedics, midwives and paramedics. To unite the activities of zemstvo doctors, congresses of zemstvo doctors were convened
        1. Richard
          Richard 3 March 2021 10: 06
          +6
          Zemsky schools were of two types - one-class, with a three-year course of study, designed for fifty students with one teacher (the so-called one-class), and two-class with a four-year course, with 50 or more students and two teachers, depending on the number of children in the village. , from the need for education and from the material and financial capabilities of the local zemstvo council.
          The standard monthly salary of a zemstvo teacher at the beginning of the 30th century was 37 rubles; after serving five years, they already received 50 rubles 5 kopecks: 2 rubles were paid extra by the provincial zemstvo and 6 and a half - by the district zemstvo. (For comparison: in the past they paid “twelve to fifteen rubles a month” [XNUMX]). A state-owned apartment was envisaged (as a rule, an apartment was provided in a school building), or payment for rented housing.
          There were also zemstvo nurseries
        2. Richard
          Richard 3 March 2021 10: 08
          +7
          The overwhelming majority of zemstvo councils organized their own postal services to forward correspondence within the counties, as well as to exchange correspondence with the state postal service.
      3. Richard
        Richard 3 March 2021 10: 20
        +8
        LAND - Device and legal status
        Provincial zemstvo institutions
        Once a year in the provincial town, a congress of deputies from the district zemstvo assemblies of the entire province took place under the chairmanship of the provincial leader of the nobility - the provincial zemstvo assembly, which carried out general management of the economic affairs of the province. For the constant management of these affairs, it elected the provincial zemstvo council from the chairman and several members.
        The provincial zemstvo assembly, in addition to the vowels, included local representatives of departments. The provincial assemblies were chaired by the provincial marshal of the nobility or another person appointed to this position by the governor
        County zemstvo institutions
        All landowners, traders and industrialists with real estate of a certain value, as well as rural societies, received the right to elect representatives ("vowels") from their midst for three years to the district zemstvo assemblies. These meetings, under the chairmanship of the county leader of the nobility, met annually for a short period to manage the economic affairs of the county. The uyezd zemstvo assembly elected from among its members a uyezd zemstvo council, consisting of a chairman and two members. The government was a permanent institution
        Zemstvo election system
        1. Richard
          Richard 3 March 2021 10: 26
          +8
          It is also worth mentioning the zemstvo fees.
          Zemstvos were given the right to impose taxes and duties on the population of counties for zemstvo needs (construction and equipping schools and nurseries, charity, medical care, maintenance of cemeteries and cattle burial grounds, construction of roads and bridges, maintenance of justices of the peace, etc.)
  3. apro
    apro 3 March 2021 04: 47
    +9
    Naturally, the Bolsheviks, having come to power, could not admit the existence in their country of such effective, and most importantly, self-government bodies independent of them. 

    Well, how can you not kick the Reds ... now you can.
    Only a few are forgotten what came to replace them in the form of councils of people's deputies, which were created even before the Reds came to power.
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS 3 March 2021 05: 42
      +11
      Well, how can you not kick the Reds ... now you can.

      Without this, nothing. Only these "damned komunyaki" then built such a socially oriented society, where all these zemstvos with bars were no longer needed by patrons of art, the state provided the people for everyone free of charge, and not good bars from their bounty.
      1. kalibr
        3 March 2021 06: 34
        +2
        Quote: WHAT IS
        the state provided everyone for free

        And nevertheless, for such a state the people for some reason did not stand up in 91. After all, it provided for EVERYTHING. But no, people did not go to the barricades "For the power of the Soviets!" Something else was missing besides EVERYTHING.
        1. apro
          apro 3 March 2021 06: 37
          +3
          Quote: kalibr
          Something else was missing besides EVERYTHING.

          Brains ... for example.
          1. kalibr
            3 March 2021 06: 48
            +1
            Oleg, as it was ENLIGHTENED. I probably have a corn on my tongue from stories about the abominations of capitalism and how blacks are hanged, and every 5 woman there is a prostitute. There were such magazines as "Abroad", "Sputnik of a political activator", "Questions of the history of the KPSS", "USA and Canada" (this one still exists) and everything was described in detail there. And the lecturers of the Central Committee came and said what, how, and how to answer "such and such" questions. And it’s all for nothing! On the houses there are slogans: "The party is our helmsman!" Kobzon sang again: "Our helmsman's party" Bass! But ... you, now, ended up writing "brains" ...
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 3 March 2021 06: 59
              +5
              Kobzon sang again: "Our helmsman's party" Bass!
              I will note, however, that Joseph Davydovich was a baritone.
              1. kalibr
                3 March 2021 07: 10
                +8
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                was a baritone

                This is a very important observation for understanding the topic, of course.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 3 March 2021 07: 15
                  +2
                  You might think that someone in the discussion will try to comprehend the topic and connect it with previous ones.
                  1. kalibr
                    3 March 2021 07: 34
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    You might think that someone in the discussion will try to comprehend the topic and connect it with previous ones.

                    Ay, yes, Anton!
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 3 March 2021 19: 54
                      -1
                      Not "ah" at all, Vyacheslav Olegovich. To diagnose a disease of society, you do not need to be a "seven spans in the forehead."
                      1. kalibr
                        3 March 2021 20: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: 3x3zsave
                        "ay",

                        Well said. To comprehend one thing is good to say - another!
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 March 2021 20: 42
                        +2
                        Yes. Our current society is hurt by the lack of immunity to social shocks.
                      3. kalibr
                        4 March 2021 07: 30
                        +1
                        And that is well said. And it is also rightly noted. But patience is rife.
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 4 March 2021 07: 39
                        +2
                        The combination of these two factors is frightening.
                      5. kalibr
                        4 March 2021 07: 52
                        +1
                        Here it is - youth: what prevented me from coming up with this phrase? But no. Fig you! It's a shame that we are getting a little dumber. But ... but in your face, Anton, there is a change. And it pleases! By the way, today at 18.00 there will be an article about weapons.
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 4 March 2021 08: 25
                        +3
                        If 48 years is youth, then you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, are an incorrigible optimist.
                      7. kalibr
                        4 March 2021 09: 03
                        +1
                        Anton, I remember myself when I was 48 years old ... Savsem was a malloy! Black mustache, black hair, head, ran like a horse ... I knocked on the typewriter ... fast, fast. And seychas ... old man piebald on his head ...
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 10: 51
        +3
        You might think that someone in the discussion will try to comprehend the topic and connect it with previous ones.

        Mein Freund, half of the branch will still consist of unproductive disputes over communism. No. For everyone sees in the article what he wants. request
        The article is good. Without going into political talk, it is interesting to know what happened "then". hi
        "Poor doctors and paramedics do not even have the consolation to think that they are serving the same idea, since they are constantly thinking about a salary, about a piece of bread."

        I read an essay written about the times of Arakcheev in the collection "History of the Russian Army" - this is my "duty book". It was mainly the officers of the then General Staff who wrote.

        So, something like the following is written. During the time of Alexander I (after the wars with Napoleon), teachers in cadet corps (or what were the military schools called then?) Received such a small salary ... that the students "thanked" them with a part of their lunch or dinner! Simply - "thanked the food!"
        and the teachers, as well as the priests, and the village clerk, it was customary to "carry". A little, but ... and no worse than the others brought.

        Ikonnikov-Galitsky writes very interestingly in his "Chronicles of Petersburg Crimes". Almost the majority of the inhabitants of St. Petersburg prisons in the second half of the 19th century consisted of .. violators of the passport regime! The passport was then issued for a fairly short period of time at the place of residence. The peasant received it, and went to work in the capital. But before the expiration of the passport, he had to return and get a new one. Naturally, not everyone did this. Moreover, the passport could be corrected quickly, but could very slowly. For speed, it was necessary to "enter" the local clerk, or even the clerk. This did not add to the love of the then bureaucracy among the people. Violators were caught and punished.
        That was such an idiotic system!
        To the author - Vyacheslav Olegovich, without going into political currents, continue the cycle about the then village. Moreover, your region is historically rich in agrarian history, there are also many noble families from there - Stolypins, Zagoskins, Karakozovs .. In general, write to you! We look forward to continuing! hi
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 March 2021 12: 12
          0
          The passport was then issued for a fairly short period of time at the place of residence. The peasant received it, and went to work in the capital. But before the expiration of the passport, he had to return and get a new one. Naturally, not everyone did this.
          Is it somehow different now?
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 12: 17
            0
            Is it somehow different now?

            Here is from Galitsky:
            The statutes provided for two types of passports: unlimited and urgent. Perpetual passports were issued only to retired officers and officials, their widows and daughters, as well as to lower ranks of military service who had served their time. For the latter, the peasant or urban communities to which they were assigned became the place of establishment. All the rest received passports for a period... Serving nobles, if necessary to leave the place of service, asked for a service passport from their superiors. It indicated the rank, name, surname, service, position, place where he was released, and the term. Diocesan bishops and consistories issued passports to clergy (monks - the abbot of the monastery). To persons of the merchant class and bourgeois - city councils or magistrates; to the peasants - volost governments. Jews were issued passports for temporary stay only within the Pale of Settlement; living outside of it required special permission from the police authorities. The police, janitors and householders monitored the observance of passport regulations. According to the existing rules, "every person who arrives in St. Petersburg is obliged to give the manager of the house in which he is staying, along with a residence permit, information about himself and about young children."
            Source: https://statehistory.ru/books/Andzhey-Ikonnikov-Galitskiy_KHroniki-peterburgskikh-prestupleniy/13

            Here is a link to the book - read on for health. Very easy to write. drinks
            https://statehistory.ru/books/Andzhey-Ikonnikov-Galitskiy_KHroniki-peterburgskikh-prestupleniy/
          2. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 12: 22
            +2
            Is it somehow different now?

            Here's another, from the same place:
            Thus, a person who had been absent from his permanent place of residence for a long time had to return in time, before the expiration of the term, and receive a new passport. Those who find themselves out of their permanent place of residence without a passport or with an expired passport must be in an administrative order, by stage, in shackles, put into place. One can imagine how many dangerous troubles lay in wait for a Russian resident due to the operation of such a passport system. Especially often faced with its gloomy manifestations of the peasants who lived on a side trade and city earnings. All of them had to get new passports from time to time, and for this they had to leave their jobs, go home, wait for the volost government to deign to do paperwork ... It was possible, of course, to correct the passport by mail, but the volost clerks preferred to receive bribes on a personal meeting ... The position of the bourgeois and foreigners who lived not in the cities to which they were assigned was no better. As a result, large developing cities, and especially St. Petersburg, were literally flooded with passport violators, most of whom unwittingly became such. Meanwhile, all of them, along with the inveterate cornermen and murderers, were subject to, if caught, sent to the indicated places in shackles and in escort.

            Source: https://statehistory.ru/books/Andzhey-Ikonnikov-Galitskiy_KHroniki-peterburgskikh-prestupleniy/13
        2. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 3 March 2021 13: 22
          0
          Mein Freund, half of the branch will still consist of unproductive disputes over communism

          Again, the enemies of the communists cowardly call the building of the fairest society, carried out only in some agricultural communes of reactionary Israel, unproductive am
          During the time of Alexander I (after the wars with Napoleon), teachers in cadet corps (or what were the military schools called then?) Received such a small salary ... that the students "thanked" them with a part of their lunch or dinner! Simply - "thanked the food!"

          And for passing the exams, they probably thanked not only the food ... after all, the Great October Socialist Revolution was still a blessing repeat
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 15: 08
            +3
            Again, the enemies of the communists cowardly call the building of the fairest society, carried out only in some agricultural communes of reactionary Israel, unproductive

            Judging by the number of minuses that were thrown at us (mind you, in fact, for nothing!) - with such patriots and enemies are not necessary ... negative
            And for passing the exams, they probably thanked not only the food ... after all, the Great October Socialist Revolution was still a blessing

            Champagne? wink
            Have you ever heard of the beating prince Andronikov? drinks This one put sodomy on a grand scale. laughing I mean, the "pigeons" to whom he promised his patronage in the advancement .. so to speak, "stayed with him for the night to drive a seagull." repeat He fulfilled his desires .. but he did not provide patronage! laughing
            Excerpt - Rudnev V.M.Report by Vladimir Rudnev, assistant prosecutor of the Yekaterinoslavsky district court: "The latter circumstance was confirmed in a number of letters, selected by me during a search of Prince Andronnikov's, from such young people seduced by him, who complained in these letters that he had deceived them in his promises." wassat
            The prince finished, however, badly. hi After October, he somehow managed to get a job as the chairman of the Kronstadt Cheka (that is, you understand - a scoundrel of the highest level!), And put bribery on the stream - he began to collect money from those bourgeois who wanted to go abroad. fellow On this I got burned. They shot him. Well, then "the award has found its hero." negative
            Look, what a rosy gingerbread he was! wink
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 3 March 2021 15: 19
            +1
            In my opinion, my eyes let down with mascara laughing
          3. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 15: 32
            +1
            In my opinion, my eyes let down with mascara

            It is a pity, the photo is not color - probably, he also tinted his beard with henna. laughing And now I could play half-time naked in "Game of Thrones"! bully Look - poured out! drinks
          4. Korsar4
            Korsar4 3 March 2021 16: 05
            +1
            War of the roses turning into revolution?
            And the selection of passionaries in the faces.
          5. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 16: 17
            +2
            War of the roses turning into revolution?
            And the selection of passionaries in the faces.

            Sergei, who are you for - for Yorks or Lancaster? drinks Although the Reds won in England too ... laughing And in the case of Andronikov's intricate rascal, we can clearly say: the Reds shot the blue! bully
          6. Korsar4
            Korsar4 3 March 2021 19: 10
            +2
            “God forbid you to be born
            Under Henry VI ”(c).
          7. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 4 March 2021 09: 36
            +2
            “God forbid you to be born
            Under Henry VI ”(c).

            For Henry I will not say, but here I recently read about Richard II. He was also a madman. laughing
          8. Korsar4
            Korsar4 4 March 2021 14: 26
            +2
            Then England was shaking: uprisings, plague, Scots again.
  4. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 16: 18
    0
    And with Dima Beeline in the Khalisi family laughing
  5. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 16: 24
    0
    And with Dima Beeline in the Khalisi family

    Will the midget play Shnurov? wink Can you imagine - a philosophically drunk Cord (a dwarf that is the whole film) next to a whitewashed-trimmed Beeline? fellow here it will be a thing! good
  6. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 16: 35
    0
    "Tits and dragons forever
    Whores, lewdness, cold
    (There is a dwarf, there is a dwarf)
    I could have read all the books for a long time
    But I ... didn't read crying" (from)
  7. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 16: 41
    +2
    But I ... didn't read

    And I couldn't even read The Lord of the Rings ... recourse And I watched the film only because it was translated by the Goblin. laughing to each his own! request
  8. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 16: 46
    +1
    And I started to read the Song .. it was interesting, but I gave up even
  9. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 3 March 2021 17: 02
    +1
    And I started to read the Song .. it was interesting, but I gave up even

    I only watched the last season! laughing
  10. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 18: 51
    +1
    The worst )))
  11. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 3 March 2021 20: 58
    +4
    Read Sapkowski.
  12. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 21: 16
    +3
    Thanks for the recommendation, let's see what it is hi
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 March 2021 20: 41
    +2
    We are waiting for the continuation. Nikolay, I am not an emotional young lady, like Astra, I readily read V. O and Valery, they are excellent authors. But V.O has materials that I would recommend: do not continue. You can argue, but I don't want to argue with V.O
    1. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 4 March 2021 09: 38
      +2
      You can argue, but I don't want to argue with V.O

      Why swear? Site "patriots" and so dirtied karma to me for this thread. request
  • apro
    apro 3 March 2021 07: 00
    -2
    Quote: kalibr
    because it was ENLIGHTENED.

    Enlightened ... but Russian has not yet tried it on its own skin, will not understand.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 March 2021 07: 08
      +2
      but the Russian will not try it on his own skin yet, will not understand.
      Then what does Shpakovsky have to do with "kicking the reds" and other "enemies of the communists"?
      1. apro
        apro 3 March 2021 07: 34
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Then where does Shpakovsky have to do with it,

        It leads away from understanding the situation, how wonderful the Zemstvo is, how wonderful the autocracy, what wonderful nobles, what nosy Russian capitalists ... cheerfully crunching a French bun.
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 07: 47
          +3
          Quote: apro
          It leads away from understanding the situation, how wonderful the Zemstvo is, how wonderful the autocracy, what wonderful nobles, what nosy Russian capitalists ... cheerfully crunching a French bun.

          You, probably, do not know how to read, or is it you have problems with ... How did it all end, do you know? Let me remind you: 1917! And it turns out that even that was good, and there were zemstvos, and there were more motor ships than everyone else, but it did not grow together ... Yes? That is, SOMETHING IS NOT ENOUGH? Everything is like in the 91st, huh? And everything is free, and Soviets, and Kobzon sings in baritone ... But it did not grow together. Why? Because in the 17th and 91st there were systemic crises of the existing system. Take their "bricks" - each in itself seems to be good. But all together do not work: the nose is pulled out, the tail gets stuck. Then we overtook, then we catch up ... Explained easily?
          1. apro
            apro 3 March 2021 07: 58
            -1
            Quote: kalibr
            there were systemic crises

            More specifically ... a systemic crisis. When the system does not correspond to the tasks set. Or the tasks are set inadequately.
            1. kalibr
              3 March 2021 08: 33
              +2
              Quote: apro
              systemic crisis. when the system does not correspond to the tasks set. or the tasks are set inadequately.

              Both. First of all, the system does not meet the requirements of the time.
            2. apro
              apro 3 March 2021 08: 41
              +2
              That's how it is ... if there is a systemic crisis in riot, why are you writing so many laudatory articles about the successes. About the breakthroughs of autocracy ???? in all areas of activity.
              So today I learned about the highly effective zemstvo system of self-government, which got up red across the throat and did not influence in any way in the preservation of the brilliant empire.
            3. kalibr
              3 March 2021 10: 19
              +2
              Quote: apro
              so many laudatory articles

              Because in the USSR they did not write about all this. That's all. I was always attracted by something that was not written about, or wrote with a distortion of reality. This is precisely the task of the historian - to search for the unknown and bring it to the people.
            4. apro
              apro 3 March 2021 10: 45
              +4
              Why is this passage ...
              Naturally, the Bolsheviks, having come to power, could not admit the existence in their country of such effective, and most importantly, self-government bodies independent of them.

              It's a strange truth ...
            5. kalibr
              3 March 2021 11: 47
              +1
              Quote: apro
              It's a strange truth ..

              The truth cannot be strange. She is who she is!
            6. apro
              apro 3 March 2021 12: 35
              +5
              Quote: kalibr
              True

              A magic word ... but each has its own. And you are the author using it to your advantage. And not without passion ...
            7. kalibr
              3 March 2021 13: 17
              +1
              Quote: apro
              You are the author using it to your advantage ... and not without passion ...

              To prove this, you must at least read the Pravda newspaper from 1918 until ... Work in at least one archive of the OK KPSS. And before that, your words are akin to the bleating of a donkey lost in the fog. And this is how I see it ...
              Or do you want to say now that you have already read all the literature recommended at the end of the article, compared the substantive parts and the scientific reference apparatus and, on this basis, came to this conclusion?
            8. apro
              apro 3 March 2021 13: 23
              +4
              Quote: kalibr
              And before that, your words are akin to the bleating of a donkey lost in the fog.

              You are not polite ...
            9. kalibr
              3 March 2021 16: 59
              +1
              Quote: apro
              You are not polite ...

              There is such a sin ... But still it is less than the sin of ignorance. When a person does not know, but diligently proves something.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 3 March 2021 13: 34
    +5
    Quote: apro
    systemic crisis. when the system does not correspond to the tasks set

    It can be said in another way.
    A systemic crisis in a state is when the system of social relations has ceased to correspond to the system of economic relations. In the language of Marxism - the discrepancy between the superstructure and the base. With regard to Russia at the beginning of the twentieth century. you can put it even more simply - some have money, while others have political power.
    With regard to the USSR at the end of the twentieth century. there was no such acute, precisely systemic crisis. There were no economic, or indeed any significant, contradictions between groups of the population. There was a crisis of power.
    The USSR did not die, did not die of illness, he was strong and if he experienced a slight malaise, then with minimal treatment he would have recovered.
    The USSR simply killed itself. He destroyed himself. As if a healthy and strong man, who would live and live, would try a drug as a cure for a slight indisposition and, as a result, jumped out of the window during a panic attack.
  • apro
    apro 3 March 2021 15: 31
    +1
    Trilobite...
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    There was a crisis of power

    Somewhat simplistically ... not the authorities, but the goals of replacing communist attitudes with capitalist ones, and this poison was introduced gradually, from the age of 53, which caused the degradation of both management and persons in charge.
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Destroyed himself

    I disagree. Was destroyed by the enemies of the Communists. Renegades from the party members. Completely deliberately and purposefully.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 3 March 2021 16: 13
    +2
    Quote: apro
    Trilobite...

    After such a beginning of your comment, I immediately want to get nasty, and in full confidence that this is "in response."
    In general, it’s quite violet how you treat me, I don’t know you and I live quite happily at the same time, but the monotonous distortion of my network pseudonym is already so boring, and the people doing this show such an obvious wretchedness of mind that I want to immediately arrange dots on the "e" - are you one of those who do this deliberately in order to somehow "annoy" me, or is it just a bad joke?
    Essentially your comment:
    When a person is thrown out of the window, is he killing himself, or is he being killed by his enemies, that is, the cells-renegades of his own brain? Can't they be considered a part of his body?
    Gorbachev is blood from blood and flesh from the flesh of the Soviet system of education and training of management personnel. And he was not alone, but had tremendous support at all levels of government, from the Politburo to the provincial district committees. Ideological support. Conscious. He was part of the system, he headed it and the system did not resist, on the contrary, supported him until his death.
    What is this if not suicide?
  • apro
    apro 3 March 2021 16: 34
    +1
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    After such a beginning of your comment, I immediately want to get nasty

    Accept sorry. Was wrong.
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    When a person is thrown out of the window, is he killing himself, or is he being killed by his enemies, that is, the cells-renegades of his own brain? Can't they be considered a part of his body?

    Not a completely correct example. If you compare this with a person, but with a community of individual idividums, it is somewhat different. Individual individuals do not consider others as people. For various reasons. Is not the essence. And they consider it in the right to decide whether they live or not. or not. They consider their life priorities to be correct. And for the sake of this they went to the party precisely for the power of authority.
    The canalization of these aspirations should have been transparency and freedom for all to see, and the ability to publicly apply reprisals against them, but they were able to block this process by different methods.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 3 March 2021 18: 50
    +3
    Apologies are accepted. hi
    On this topic.
    If you do not draw an analogy with the human body, then we can say the following.
    The appearance in power of such a character as Gorbachev could not and was not accidental. The support that he enjoyed both in the circles of power and among the people, especially at the beginning of his reign, was very great. Gorbachev is the fruit of the efforts of all our rulers, starting with Stalin, who died when Gorbachev was ... 20 or so (not a boy already), and ending with Brezhnev, under whom he seized the highest power, going through the most brutal political intriguing skins and winning all rival opponents.
    It is impossible to say about him - "traitor" and forget. This traitor was raised by the Soviet system, it was brought up, trained, tempered in the internal party struggle and promoted to the highest state office. It is a natural outcome, not a pathological accident. And with his "treacherous policy" he represented the interests of a fairly wide circle of associates in the party. Most, let's say.
  • apro
    apro 4 March 2021 02: 03
    +1
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    The emergence of such a character as Gorbachev in power could not and was not accidental.

    You can't argue, but the ability of the system to cleanse itself was seriously undermined. And this indicates a low civilizational level in the territory. The self-awareness of the population remained at the village level, despite the efforts to educate and organize urban life.
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    This traitor was raised by the Soviet system

    I disagree. Not by the Soviet system. But by the system of the territory of Russia. Soviet attitudes are too demanding. And require a higher level of education and moral qualities and professionalism.
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    And with his "treacherous policy" he represented the interests of a fairly wide circle of associates in the party.

    What speaks about the anti-Soviet aspirations in the party at the post-Stalin stage, the substitution of communist attitudes for bourgeois ones, the lack of responsibility and the party's closure of itself.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 4 March 2021 10: 44
    +2
    If you are right, then it turns out that on the eve of the collapse of the USSR it was no longer a Soviet state. So it died much earlier, and only the name remained from it.
    But in any case, and you can't argue with that, the USSR was destroyed by its own elite, not someone else's. Not Jews and Freemasons, not the CIA and MI6, not the Reptilians and Anunnaki, and not a handful of traitors, but their own, raised and nurtured by this state system, relatives, folk heroes. Moreover, with the full support and approval of this very people.
    I don't know how old you are, but I was born in the mid-70s and I remember the enthusiasm and warm support that the whole country, with a few exceptions, rendered to Gorbachev in the late 80s. The country - the whole country - simply flew towards its own death, as they say, "with a ringing song on their lips."
    This is what I call suicide.
  • apro
    apro 4 March 2021 13: 14
    0
    Good day.
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    The USSR was destroyed by its own elite

    The population wanted a quiet life ... it got it. The creation of civilization is a painstaking and lengthy process that requires efforts of knowledge and repression, but no one likes to strain. And, by and large, there is no one to force the party from the people ...
    They tried to create a material base, but they treated the creation of a Soviet man, a Soviet way of life, thoughts as a secondary task, and a man is the basis of any system.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 March 2021 20: 51
    +2
    Misha, here you are right: "had great support", but now the rule of good manners: "tagged" one did everything. How his navel didn't come loose: do everything yourself everywhere
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 March 2021 21: 00
    +2
    "distorting my network pseudonym" there are two reasons: 1) ts "ideological" to get you even so; 2) not attentiveness in reading. If a pseudonym is complex or not very clear and sometimes distort, but this is not a specialist, but a rush. Oh, and she spoils life - haste
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 3 March 2021 21: 14
    +1
    Yes, we've figured it out already, Slava.
    In general, the distortion itself does not bother me. For example, Vera, our Astra Wild, periodically does this - whether because of laziness, because of haste, or because of some other reason, I don't know. I don't pay attention, because I know Vera as a normal, cultured person, well, she has such a weakness ...
    And here is just a stranger, before, it seems, they didn’t come across, so I, so as not to guess who I’m dealing with, straight on and asked. It turned out that he was also a normal person, albeit an opponent, which I am very happy about. smile Maybe we will still argue, but there is already a certain respect for him.
  • vladcub
    vladcub 4 March 2021 13: 12
    +1
    "a normal person, though an opponent" I like these myself. It is more interesting to have a dialogue than to listen to an accusatory monologue
  • kalibr
    3 March 2021 17: 04
    +1
    Quote: apro
    I disagree. Was destroyed by the enemies of the Communists. By renegades from the party members. quite deliberately and purposefully.

    The entire XX Congress - only renegades - oh, how! And all the enemies ... From Marshal Zhukov to Aunt Dunya, the reel-drummer!
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 16: 43
    +1
    There was a management crisis
  • kalibr
    3 March 2021 17: 03
    0
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    There were no economic, or indeed any significant, contradictions between population groups.

    Just were. The lecturer of the Central Committee of the CPSU told us about them back in 1985, he spoke about serious problems in the economy, the problem of the "echo" of 1995. But what could we privates do? Is working like a Boxer even better? So it's useless in this situation ...
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 16: 41
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    but the Russian will not try it on his own skin yet, will not understand.
    Then what does Shpakovsky have to do with "kicking the reds" and other "enemies of the communists"?

    Shpakovsky lived well in front of everyone, which is what causes dislike for the reds and whites. If he were of the correct nationality, he would have found all possible support in a mean
    bombing Syria. But Alas ...
    Only me and Privalov support him (the last one on Jewish holidays)
  • Far B
    Far B 3 March 2021 07: 06
    +7
    Stop here. You say - why didn't you come out in 1991? Excuse me, but in what year were Arguments and Facts and other Ogonyok reforged, since what year were these very mouthpieces of political propaganda reoriented to denigrating everything Soviet at the behest from above? In what year did a certain Yakovlev become the head of the propaganda department of the Central Committee of the CPSU? ABOUT! Surprise! In the summer of 85! And there is no need to tell tales about calluses in the language - from that time, at first slowly, then more and more precisely, anti-Soviet propaganda was carried out. Therefore, the foolish people were in no hurry to leave. But this does not mean that he was categorically against everything Soviet and socialist.
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 07: 15
      +1
      Quote: Dalny V
      And there is no need to tell tales about calluses in the language - from that time, at first slowly, then more and more precisely, anti-Soviet propaganda was carried out. Therefore, the foolish people were in no hurry to leave.

      Who are you telling this? I studied at the graduate school of Kuibyshev State University from 86 to 88. I gave lectures at Kuibyshev's factories and ... there was counter-propaganda, but even the word "against" was still impossible. Yes, in my 90th book "The Star and the Cross" was hacked to death only because ... the role of the church in the Second World War was shown .. There will be an article about the propaganda role played by the Volga region party organizations at that time. Read for yourself ...
      1. Far B
        Far B 3 March 2021 07: 34
        +5
        Who are you telling this?
        I tell you this. as a contemporary and witness of those events.
        In May 1986, the Central Committee of the CPSU (at the suggestion of the secretary of the Central Committee Yegor Ligachev) appointed V. Korotich editor-in-chief of the all-Union magazine Ogonyok. Within two years, the magazine's circulation has grown from 1,5 million to 4,5 million copies. Instead of the party officialdom, a magazine appeared for the general reader. In the book The Red Dozen. The collapse of the USSR: they were against ”is described as“ an ascetic of the perestroika model ”. The official website of Ogonyok assesses V. Korotich's work in the magazine: “With his arrival, the magazine turned 180 degrees. . Publicism "Ogonyok" became a school of democracy in a country hungry for freedom. Exposure became a cult genre of all journalism. The magazine "Ogonyok" began this epic ... The era of "glasnost" is associated with it, the change of political formation, the collapse of Soviet power - first in the minds of people, and then in real life. "
        For this editorial activity, the American magazine World Press Review [9] awarded Korotich in 1989 the title of "Foreign Editor of the Year"

        As Korotich himself recalled years later: "I always knew that I could be removed at any time ... Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev called me several times and said: Mikhail Sergeevich and I are going to leave Moscow at the same time, disappear and you for a week , otherwise Ligachev will hold a decision on your dismissal at the secretariat of the Central Committee and nothing can be done

        So I ask you again - no fairy tales. Why did you get hacked to death because of the church - no idea at all, if already at the first congress of people's deputies of the USSR (March 1989) an acting priest was included in it? Well, let it remain on your conscience.
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 07: 50
          +3
          There will be an article for you, Mikhail, with links to party documents, there will be! Or maybe more than one. Because, as it should with all the details ...
          1. Far B
            Far B 3 March 2021 07: 58
            +6
            Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev called me several times and said: Mikhail Sergeevich and I are going to leave Moscow at the same time, disappear and you for a week
            On these too? Just wondering, do you think Eustace Alex was also sent official documents? Or did they still keep the connection secretly? I clearly know that in the party documents before the Congress of People's Deputies, everything was sewn and covered. Because by no means all of the party elite is still rotten, they could have kicked up seriously. But on the pages of the press, incl. and propaganda, the reversal was more than noticeable. Once again: I am a witness of those events, I do not need to be convinced of anything, I have always believed in my eyes more.
            1. kalibr
              3 March 2021 08: 23
              0
              Quote: Dalny V
              I always believed in my eyes more.

              Very often the forest is not visible behind the trees. But I am also a participant in those events, so my opinion is against yours. By the way, I do not question your words in the least. It's just that many phenomena in society were going on in parallel. And why ask here? When the articles come out, you will see for yourself ...
            2. kalibr
              3 March 2021 08: 32
              0
              Quote: Dalny V
              I clearly know that in the party documents before the Congress of People's Deputies, everything was sewn and covered.

              And in what archive of the CPSU did you work with them?
            3. Far B
              Far B 3 March 2021 08: 47
              +6
              I had the pleasure of familiarizing myself with the Primorsky Territory and a number of regional archives in the Far East. And these were not the archives of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, just archives, for some reason. And why do you interesyeste? And where did you get the idea that I just worked with them, and it was in the archives? Maybe grandfather was lying in the attic? Some you are suspiciously curious laughing
            4. kalibr
              3 March 2021 08: 54
              0
              Quote: Dalny V
              Maybe grandfather was lying in the attic? Some you are suspiciously curious

              The regional regional archive cannot contain party documents from the word GENERAL. There are archives of the OK KPSS in the field. And they cannot lie in the attic.
            5. Far B
              Far B 3 March 2021 09: 04
              +8
              And they cannot lie in the attic
              Sarcasm is again misunderstood. Sadness at all.
              The regional district archive cannot contain party documents from the word AT ALL
              Seriously?! Yes, even in the archives of newspaper editorial offices (I worked in several) there were and are party documents that were sent to the chief editors (in special such packets, if you are not aware) not only for publication, but also for familiarization, so that they take into account the party line in further work. What are you talking about, in general ???
            6. kalibr
              3 March 2021 10: 21
              -1
              Quote: Dalny V
              What are you talking about, in general ???

              The fact that "letters in envelopes" are only a small part of the contents of the archives of the OK KPSS. That's all.
            7. Far B
              Far B 4 March 2021 00: 42
              +2
              Excuse me, but where did I say that there is a large part? You are strange. Those envelopes contained the main, operative part, so to speak, the very juice and the most tsimes. By which the general direction of movement was determined. This is more than enough for conclusions. In addition, the most important documents of the perestroika-skirmish period will still not be opened by a single archive for another fifty years, so the dispute is pointless.
            8. kalibr
              4 March 2021 07: 04
              -1
              [quote = Far B] This is more than enough for conclusions. In addition, the most important documents of the perestroika-skirmish period will still not be opened by a single archive for fifty years, so the dispute is pointless.
              The opinion of a very ignorant person!
            9. Far B
              Far B 4 March 2021 07: 18
              +2
              The opinion of a very ignorant person
              The ignorant person is you. In your propaganda opuses, a number of important points are very often ignored - either because of their ignorance, or for the sake of the emotional component of the article. And you have repeatedly pointed out this on the forum, including me. So leave yours to yourself, I have enough of mine. Including regalia, about which, unlike you, I just do not like to chat. I give up.
            10. kalibr
              4 March 2021 07: 26
              -2
              Quote: Dalny V
              And you have repeatedly pointed out this on the forum, including me.

              You are not an authority with all your mysterious regalia. Have you defended your dissertation on the activities of the party in some area? Not! Did you work in the archives of the OK KPSS? Not! Can you work there now? You can, but you won't. And if so, then there is nothing to build out of yourself ... Monte Cristo. I also have a "pointer" ...
  • Malyuta
    Malyuta 3 March 2021 09: 23
    +19
    Quote: kalibr
    I studied at the graduate school of Kuibyshev State University from 86 to 88. I gave lectures at the Kuibyshev factories and ... there was counter-propaganda, but even the word "against" was still impossible.

    I am very sorry, but I want to ask, where is your party card and why did you join the party?
    1. apro
      apro 3 March 2021 09: 49
      +5
      Quote: Malyuta
      I am very sorry, but I want to ask, where is your party card and why did you join the party?

      This is a blow below the belt.
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 3 March 2021 09: 56
        +17
        Quote: apro
        This is a blow below the belt.

        The aftar has no belt, he is round as a bun laughing
      2. kalibr
        3 March 2021 10: 27
        0
        Quote: apro
        This is a blow below the belt.

        Why so? Not at all. This is a piece of the life of that time, so the person is interested. His right ...
    2. kalibr
      3 March 2021 10: 26
      0
      Somehow I even laid out pages from it. There were already interested ones like you. So safe and sound. Lies in the "documents". And I joined the party because I was told all the time that there were the best. And I was better than many, this time, and secondly, the order came - to accept the two best teachers of the region as members. And I was told that there would be no second chance. Yes, and my mother told me many times that only with a ticket you can work in the most interesting archives and with the most interesting documents ... And so it turned out!
      1. Malyuta
        Malyuta 3 March 2021 10: 34
        +20
        Quote: kalibr
        Yes, and my mother told me many times that only with a ticket you can work in

        So I say that if there was a more serious selection for the party, then we would not have pushed the USSR. hi
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 10: 45
          +2
          Quote: Malyuta
          So I say that if there was a more serious selection for the party, then we would not have pushed the USSR.

          Your mouth has spoken the truth. But how can you check? When I was received, the secretary of the RK said: Appreciate! We'd rather accept two illiterate pigs in the party than one teacher. I wanted to say: Here you will stay with the pigs. But, I did not say clearly. And that's how it ended. We have too many "pigs" at all levels.
        2. Malyuta
          Malyuta 3 March 2021 10: 48
          +20
          Quote: kalibr
          We have too many "pigs" at all levels.

          Rather, it's not about the pigs, but about the large number of cunning party members.
        3. kalibr
          3 March 2021 11: 24
          -2
          Quote: Malyuta
          sly party members.

          "Pigs". But the question is: how did they get there? Who selected them and on what basis? Or some "smart-ass" selected others of the same kind? "A fisherman - a fisherman ..." So the very first party members were also ... like that? The logic of your reasoning leads exactly to this conclusion!
        4. Malyuta
          Malyuta 3 March 2021 12: 45
          +15
          Quote: kalibr
          So the very first party members were also ... like that? The logic of your reasoning leads exactly to this conclusion!

          The conclusion is not correct. The plan for the shaft and the shaft according to the plan began after the death of Comrade. Stalin, when they began to accept everything at once into the party and it was during this period that opportunists, careerists and other husks came to replace the true party members who died at the front.
        5. kalibr
          3 March 2021 13: 23
          -3
          Quote: Malyuta
          careerists and other husks.

          And before the death of Comrade Stalin, they were not in the party? And read the "Short Course ..." ... And who was shot then? How many Chekists-communists alone were there against the wall?
        6. Malyuta
          Malyuta 3 March 2021 13: 33
          +18
          Quote: kalibr
          And before the death of Comrade Stalin, they were not in the party?

          There were, but they were cleaned, but after the death of Comrade. Unfortunately, they stopped to forgive Stalin.
        7. kalibr
          3 March 2021 14: 58
          -3
          Quote: Malyuta
          There were, but they were cleaned

          And they cleaned it up so well that at the XX Congress not a single (!) Of Stalin's fosterlings, marshals, generals, admirals and heroes of the USSR stood up and ... did not say a word against Khrushchev? What, the Germans were less afraid than him, right? Still there were "devotees", "not devotees" were cleaned out? And no one uttered something ... Why do you know? And everyone is tired of living under the domocles sword and "being cleaned". People - they are always people. They get tired of fanaticism.
    3. kalibr
      3 March 2021 13: 24
      -4
      Quote: Malyuta
      when the party began to accept everything in a row

      How in a row, when there was a disorder at the reception? In the same, for example, 1980?
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 3 March 2021 07: 54
    +6
    so in fact as ENLIGHTENED

    Well, who educated? Since the mid 80s. Members (excuse me) of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union attached to special distribution centers.
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 08: 26
      -1
      Quote: Aviator_
      Members (excuse me) of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union attached to special distribution centers.

      They were not attached to special distributors. In any case, we, the teachers of the Department of the History of the CPSU and the lecturers of the RK CPSU, were not attached. Associate professors could be treated in a special clinic of the OK KPSS. Well, of course, when they were in OK, everyone went to the buffet and bought sausages there. But there was also a reason to think of getting there. No one was invited to visit OK. And again, Sergei, it doesn't matter who was attached to where. It is important what and how he did it, isn't it? There is no need to slide down to the philistine level of judgment ...
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 3 March 2021 18: 01
        +4
        It is important what and how he did it, isn't it?

        It is clear that there was not enough room at the trough for everyone. And the communists of the 80s were not at all the same as Reisman portrayed in the movie of the same name. But these did everything badly, but they did not organize a discussion in the party, nothing but the "Food Program", which was successfully failed. And to demand from the entire unorganized non-party population to defend the USSR is tactless from a member of the CPSU. In the fall of 1993, real communists and non-party people tried to resist EBN, but failed.
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 20: 46
          0
          Quote: Aviator_
          But these did everything badly, but they did not organize a discussion in the party, nothing but the "Food Program", which was successfully failed.

          There will also be material about this, just about the work of the communists to educate the masses in the period from 1985 to 90. "Bad" is your personal opinion based on the afterthought. Moreover, it is not yet complete. Be patient, you will have an exhaustive completeness of the material. Together with "Dalny" you read ...
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 3 March 2021 22: 06
            +2
            "Bad" is your personal opinion,

            Well, your opuses are also nothing more than a personal opinion.
            Then I felt "Bad" not because of afterthought, but immediately when many high-tech projects in which I participated were ruined. For this reason, I was forced to do industrial mountaineering to feed my family. As for the "Exhaustive completeness" - I'm not very sure, since I have known your style for a long time.
            1. kalibr
              4 March 2021 07: 10
              -1
              That is, you want to say that you have already read all the literature recommended at the end, have become an expert in this matter and can judge reasonably? In my opinion, you simply had neither the time nor the desire for this. And high-tech projects ... So these were such projects that no one needed them, so they were hacked to death.
            2. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 4 March 2021 08: 10
              +1
              have already read all the literature recommended at the end, have become an expert in this matter and can you judge reasonably?

              You can become a communist only when you enrich your memory with everything that humanity has worked out before you! Your level became clear to me when I read a note about Cyprus. Everything else only confirms this opinion.
              And high-tech projects ... So these were such projects that no one needed them, so they were hacked to death.

              Estessno, the security of the country, the commies, mid-80s, (like you), was no longer needed. We needed piarasty.
            3. kalibr
              4 March 2021 16: 08
              0
              That is, you have read all the recommended works? After all, it was necessary to have time to cope with such a volume of work ... Congratulations!
            4. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 4 March 2021 18: 51
              +1
              That is, you have read all the recommended works?

              I have something to do, but I do not intend to delve into notes of a dubious level. It is enough to step there once.
          2. kalibr
            4 March 2021 16: 18
            -3
            Quote: Aviator_
            Estessno, the security of the country, commies, mid-80s, (like you), was no longer needed

            Naturally, no one was going to attack us, and the money went to the marshals, generals and admirals as if in a hole for shoulder straps. And PR is a great power. We gave Ilyukhin a ride with his help when he wanted to become the Penza governor, and how beautiful and elegant. And cheap, by the way! Just one slogan: "Do you vote for the communists? Buy food for the last time!"
          3. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 4 March 2021 18: 49
            +1
            Naturally, no one was going to attack us, and the money went to the marshals, generals and admirals as if in a hole for shoulder straps.

            Just about, no one followed such "commies". Congratulated Gorbachev on his anniversary?
            We gave Ilyukhin a ride with his help when he wanted to become the Penza governor, and how beautiful and elegant. And cheap, by the way! Just one slogan: "Do you vote for the communists? Buy food for the last time!"

            Well, who would have doubted that Ilyukhin didn’t have a chance to fight such piarast.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 3 March 2021 10: 23
    -5
    Quote: kalibr
    But ... you, now, ended up writing "brains" ...

    But this commentator got a landmark recognition, yes: before the thief, it turns out, the people were with brains, but the people of the 1980s were already ... without brains. belay request

    And you can't blame it on the tsar ... yes

    That is, slowly, yes - and no one argues with this, but in the right way the Russian society was convinced that its people can decide for himself, without state intervention, and that such interference on his part is a far from healthy phenomenon. And it turned out that the very creators of Russian reforms forced people to think about a very important question: what is more important in the country - the power of the sovereign or its citizens themselves?


    "The decision by ourselves" will still lead sooner or later ... to the state. For a society without a state cannot exist. It will either disintegrate into individual communities, or self-organize and... again the state will appear.

    The state understood this and found a mutually acceptable compromise between the inevitability of state power and self-government of the people in the form of zemstvos and developed it.

    The correct position, barbarously destroyed afterwards.

    Article plus.
  • Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 3 March 2021 12: 59
    -3
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I will add to your words - the notorious "Friendship of fraternal peoples for centuries" - after the collapse of the Union, and even with it, what happened in Baku, Sumgait, NGOs, Osh, Fergana? Bloody conflicts on .... ethnic grounds. Where is this "Friendship of Brothers"? In Vladikavkaz, even before 1985, conflicts flared up between Ossetians and Ingush. The usual slogans with empty content.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 3 March 2021 06: 52
    +2
    How so? In the most reading and enlightened country in the world, with the best education system, people lacked brains?
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 07: 45
      0
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      How so? In the most reading and enlightened country in the world, with the best education system, people lacked brains?

      The joke of this "idiom" issued by the member of the forum Dalny V is that we all come from there !!! laughing
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 3 March 2021 07: 50
        0
        Only it is not the concrete "Dalny V" that is to blame for everything, but the abstract "enemies of the communists".
      2. Far B
        Far B 3 March 2021 08: 02
        +3
        Soryan, of course, but you shouldn't have attributed the authorship of the "idiom" to me. You can take it for yourself, I'm not sorry. And even better - follow the link (such an arrow) up, you will see everything for yourself. (leaves, quietly muttering under his breath) And what did Dalny V do to you? ..
    2. Foul skeptic
      Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 08: 42
      +6
      How so? In the most reading and enlightened country in the world, with the best education system, people lacked brains?

      Do you see any contradictions?
      A high-quality education system only provides an opportunity to receive high-quality education for people who are able to assimilate this quality.
      1. kalibr
        3 March 2021 17: 07
        +1
        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
        able to assimilate this quality.

        This means that we had 80% of those who were incapable. Which is also correct ...
        1. Foul skeptic
          Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 17: 27
          +2
          You are interpreting my message primitively. But for 80% it will do, they will get the right message from you. I can assume that this is deliberate primitivism, because I know that you yourself are among the 20%.
          1. kalibr
            3 March 2021 20: 50
            0
            Quote: Nefarious skeptic
            you yourself belong to 20%.

            And that among your friends there are many authors of 40 published books in the USSR, Russia, England, Germany, 8 electronic in Russia and Singapore, and 1400 articles on VO and 310 on Pravda. RU. And this is only a part ... So fate itself is destined for me to be in 20%. Although a mathematician of me is worthless, so is a loader - here I am at the lowest level.
            1. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 08: 18
              +1
              Vyacheslav, are you asking me to figure out whether you are a graphomaniac?
              1. kalibr
                4 March 2021 09: 24
                -2
                Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                Vyacheslav, are you asking me to figure out whether you are a graphomaniac?

                Timur! Graphomaniacs write on the table or publish for their own money. Enlightenment, Eksmo, Rosmen, AST, Polygon, Osprey publish only what people buy. Moreover, in Soviet times, the quality was very strict. And then. Serious publishers do not keep fools! Can I explain it easily? You can read the reviews on the Internet. Do you know how to use it? Well, go ahead ... There are both good and bad. You will rejoice at them!
              2. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 4 March 2021 10: 20
                +2
                publish only what people buy.

                Vyacheslav, can I give you examples of what people buy? Do you remember, of course, that there are 80% of those "Untermenshes"? Therefore, it can be assumed that their sales preferences are a weak argument for anything. Yes, and I will immediately clarify the situation - if it seemed to you that I was talking about your books being bad, then this is not so. At least the ones I've read. At the same time, I don’t care about your incentives to write what I’m interested in reading later. I can assume (even from your own words) that it feeds you well, which in itself is a very strong motivation. But to rank oneself on one's own is precisely the trait of a graphomaniac (when you look not from the standpoint of literary criticism, but from the standpoint of psychiatry).
                PS At the same time, there are really no people among my friends who publish articles with photographs of what they ate on trips or what plates they have at home.
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 3 March 2021 13: 32
    0
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    How so? In the most reading and enlightened country in the world, with the best education system, people lacked brains?

    Greetings Anton! hi
    The country was reading, but there were restrictions on a bunch of different literature. Everything was so insanely ideologically consistent that Dreiser, describing the existence of an "oligarch" who took out loans for one-day firms, which then burned out, yielding the right to "property" (assignment of debt) to his legal entity, was a very popular reading matter, and Bulgakov's mystical work The Master and Margarita remained practically banned.
    From there, including the result
  • Far B
    Far B 3 March 2021 06: 51
    +7
    Do you remember what was blown into our ears at that time? "Nobody will liquidate the USSR, it will just be a slightly reformatted Union of Sovereigns ... The capital will move from Moscow to Minsk, but we will still be fraternal countries, within the same borders ..." Well, and so on blah blah blah. So they didn’t come out. Because they did not believe that someone would risk destroying such a state. I was on a business trip when they told about the Belovezhskaya agreement on TV. Well, the boys and I looked at each other, neighing with our shoulders - like, when will they calm down there? all the same, no one is going anywhere. It would be better if they finally got down to business. Understanding came later - after a year or two, but then it was already too late to rush about - lads, shooters, skirmishes, that is, the same Makhnovshchina throughout the country, in fact - an undeclared civil war. And if at that moment there really was a strong organizing force, they would have demolished the EBN gang, and all these Makhnovists-organized criminal groups, do not hesitate. But such a force was not found at that moment.
    In general, like any impregnable fortress, the USSR was taken by deception and betrayal. Like Troy, yeah.
    1. WHAT IS
      WHAT IS 3 March 2021 07: 07
      +9
      I agree, it was not without deception and betrayal, thanks to the marked one ... and how he breathed, how he breathed ..
      1. Far B
        Far B 3 March 2021 07: 11
        +8
        And how he breathed, how he breathed
        So he (a bad person) is still breathing. Yesterday our Great Helmsman made him happy with a telegram ...
        1. Malyuta
          Malyuta 3 March 2021 09: 14
          +22
          Quote: Dalny V
          Yesterday our Great Helmsman made him happy with a telegram ...

          The student thanked the teacher.
      2. kalibr
        3 March 2021 07: 17
        +2
        Quote: WHAT IS
        I agree, it was not without deception and betrayal, thanks to the marked one ... and how he breathed, how he breathed ..

        There was an article "They made their way and are falling apart" And again, there was NOT ENOUGH BRAINS. And they deceived and betrayed, and everyone clapped their ears, and together believed ... And the KGB ... believed everything!
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 3 March 2021 07: 11
      -2
      Like Troy, yeah.
      So-so example ... The reason for the siege of Troy was deception and betrayal.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 07: 47
        0
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Like Troy, yeah.
        So-so example ... The reason for the siege of Troy was deception and betrayal.

        Well, if you generalize, then "without a woman here, too, could not do" !!! laughing love
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 March 2021 07: 55
          +1
          Aha! The annual spring jitters are felt in the voice! The air smelled of "pink brooms"! Closer, closer Day of the Russian flower! laughing
      2. kalibr
        3 March 2021 07: 53
        +3
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        The siege of Troy was prompted by deception and betrayal.

        Where it began, that's how it ended.
        1. Richard
          Richard 3 March 2021 10: 45
          +6
          And here's what is incomprehensible to me, Vyacheslav Olegovich, why did you not mention anything about the zemstvo employees? You’re like a former village teacher, right?
          The history of the zemstvo is closely connected with the history of the noble and selfless labor of the rural intelligentsia who were in the zemstvo service (in RI it was called the "third element"), primarily zemstvo teachers and doctors.
          In the 1890s. there were 65-70 thousand zemstvo employees. In the beginning. 20th century in connection with the complication and expansion of the scope of activities of zemstvos. the number and role of the "third element" has grown significantly. In the zemstvo. Moscow province in 1905. there were 2259 employees, in 1916 - 4477 employees. In 1911, about 800 statisticians worked in the zemstvo statistical bureaus. Some representatives of the "third element" (for example, statistician NF Annensky, BB Veselovsky) were prominent scientists and public figures. Many zemstvo employees actively participated in the activities of the VEO, the Russian Pirogov Society. doctors and other public organizations.
          Could at least briefly mention, although this topic deserves a separate article
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 3 March 2021 11: 56
            +1
            "it seems like a former village teacher" Vyacheslav Olegovich did not like teaching in the village, he himself talked about it.
          2. kalibr
            3 March 2021 13: 27
            +1
            Quote: Richard
            And here's what is incomprehensible to me, Vyacheslav Olegovich, why did you not mention anything about the zemstvo employees? You’re like a former village teacher, right?

            You yourself wrote that this topic is for a separate article. The normal size is 8000 characters. Already at 14000, the article is not read. And not everyone here assimilates a smaller article ... So I don't see any point in putting everything together in one heap.
  • strannik1985
    strannik1985 3 March 2021 08: 33
    +8
    And nevertheless, for such a state the people for some reason did not stand up in the 91st

    The abstract people did not stand up for Gaddafi, now Libya has a civil war, gangs of democrats and slave markets, an abstract people (about 0,5% of the population) went to the Maidan and got a civil war. People in the sense of crowd nothing decides where the organizers of the protests were sent, so they went there. And coups in any system of power are possible, from monarchy to democracy.
  • ANB
    ANB 3 March 2021 10: 22
    +8
    ... But no, people did not go to the barricades "For the power of the Soviets!"

    So there was nowhere to go. The coup was clearly thought out, using psychology, and carried out as if by notes.
    Those who guessed what was happening were instantly marginalized and / or shut down.
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 10: 47
      -4
      Quote: ANB
      The coup was clearly thought out, using psychology, and carried out as if by notes.
      Those who guessed what was happening were instantly marginalized and / or shut down.

      Clever people beat .... s? Yale and Harvard diplomas were more significant than MGIMO and Moscow State University?
      1. ANB
        ANB 3 March 2021 12: 40
        +8
        ... Smart people beat

        In what year and where did you start to study PR and crowd management techniques?
        Actually, the above is a more detailed commentary on the same topic.
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 13: 29
          -3
          Quote: ANB
          In what year and where did you start to study PR and crowd management techniques?

          In 1995 at his home based on the books of Sam Black, Arthur Ponsoynbee, and Edward Bernays.
          1. ANB
            ANB 3 March 2021 13: 33
            +6
            ... In 1995 at his home based on the books of Sam Black, Arthur Ponsoynbee, and Edward Bernays.

            That is, in 1985-1991, only research institutes were engaged in this, which could not influence politics. It's not about stupidity, but about the inability to resist such things. And we were stupidly divorced.
            1. kalibr
              3 March 2021 14: 45
              +2
              Quote: ANB
              It's not about stupidity, but about the inability to resist such things. And we were stupidly divorced.

              Exactly. But who is to blame for this? In 1985, in Kiev, it seems, even a thesis was defended on the topic: "PR is the servant of American imperialism." Everything is on the roll: genetics is a servant, cybernetics is a servant, then PR ... then we catch up, we cannot catch up. Although my students, who later studied at Western universities, told me that we teach PR better ... But I would say - more cynical. And the first issue was in 2000 ... what did you want ...
              1. ANB
                ANB 3 March 2021 15: 37
                +2
                ... And the first release was in 2000 ... why

                So where was it to screw it under the USSR? So they did not teach.
                1. kalibr
                  3 March 2021 15: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: ANB
                  So where was it to screw it under the USSR?

                  They didn't screw it on, the other ... that's all in figs and untwisted ...
                2. ANB
                  ANB 3 March 2021 17: 40
                  +3
                  ... They didn't screw it on, the other ... that's all in figs and untwisted ...

                  But now there are a lot of PR people, lawyers, journalists and economists, and there is no one to work.
                  And everything does not twist back in any way.
                3. kalibr
                  3 March 2021 20: 53
                  +1
                  Quote: ANB
                  and there is no one to work.

                  I do not know. Plumbers work, welders weld, crane operators faucet, floors are poured, tiles are laid, ceilings are stretched - these are all people I know. Everyone works ...
                4. ANB
                  ANB 3 March 2021 22: 40
                  +1
                  ... these are all people I know. Everyone is working.

                  This does not contradict my words.
                  I wrote that there was no one to work, and not that there was no work for techies.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 4 March 2021 10: 29
    +1
    But after all, no one stood up for these zemstvos of yours in 1917 either, right? And in 91, they just dumped us stupidly. If they haven't forgotten, they promised us a type of renewed socialism! And the USSR in a new form. If it was immediately clear about the collapse and capitalism, then there would be barricades ...
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 05: 33
    +1
    At the beginning of the 30th century, a zemstvo teacher earned 37 rubles a month; and with five years of service it is already 50 rubles XNUMX kopecks.

    A paramedic in a rural hospital with a doctor 25 rubles, without a doctor - 55 rubles.
    Janitor in capital St. Petersburg - 40 rubles, workers from 50 to 100. The most highly paid professions are an electrician and a fitter-patterner from 100 to 250.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 3 March 2021 06: 31
      +6
      I just looked, the worker was getting 20-40 rubles. And how many electricians were there? Yablochkov and Siemens?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 10: 48
        +3
        Surname Aliluyev, says something? I will tell his daughter was behind her husband I. Stalin, and in 1917 V. Lenin was hiding at his house.
      2. frog
        frog 3 March 2021 12: 21
        +5
        Day wages to workers in St. Petersburg in 1913, cop.
        Excavator Bricklayer Blacksmith Carpenter Locksmith Joiner Turner Laborer
        150 197,5 226 187,5 263 234 250 124

        Average prices for basic products in St. Petersburg in 1913, kopecks. per pood

        Product name Average price in 1913
        Meat I grade 938
        Meat II grade 818
        Veal I grade 1300
        Pork 1 grade 822,5
        Live bream 1299
        Live pike 1327
        Frozen karasi 848
        Frozen pike perch 1050
        Frozen Baltic herring 683
        Chickens 1st grade, pair 193,5
        Fresh cabbage, head of cabbage 18,5
        Potatoes, quarter (1/4 bucket) 70,5
        Onions, quarter (1/4 bucket) 101
        Carrots, one hundred pcs. 164
        Rye Bread, Plain Flour, 3 lb.
        Pervach Sieve Bread, lb 5
        Buckwheat groats 151,5
        Grain flour I grade 278,5
        Butter Chukhonskoe 1 grade 1525
        Russian oil grade I 1663
        Fresh sour cream 738,5
        Egg, dec. thirty
        Apples Antonovskie 365
        1. frog
          frog 3 March 2021 12: 22
          +3
          Pwardon, it's gone, call me ...
          1. frog
            frog 3 March 2021 15: 42
            +3



            On the question of prices and wages .....
  • Free wind
    Free wind 3 March 2021 05: 41
    +6
    For the defense of the USSR I will tell you. The fact is that the main direction of poultry farming was obtaining eggs. And after 2-3 years, the chicken scores on this business, well, they unscrew the head and they are not presentable. And before it was like that, if the carcass is rosy, then it is not a chicken, but a rooster, and they did not like to keep roosters, it grows slowly. Actually, cock eggs were taken from the hens and only chicken eggs were placed on the hen. It is determined on the lumen, in males the air cavity is strictly above the blunt end of the egg, in females from the side. And the chicken grows on pasture and provides food for people. everyone remembered not only the American stew, but also the egg powder.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 07: 52
      +3
      Quote: Free Wind
      Yes, and the chicken grows on pasture and provides food for people

      Duc goats, in principle, prefer to gain muscle mass in someone else's garden. Here there is a material incentive - milk and a moral one - the neighbor's cabbage is not abnormal !!! laughing
      1. Free wind
        Free wind 3 March 2021 08: 05
        +3
        If you want to quarrel with your neighbor, get a goat. People's wisdom wassat
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 11: 08
          -1
          Quote: Free Wind
          If you want to quarrel with your neighbor, get a goat. People's wisdom wassat

          That's right - the cat is the world's most animal. Although when my mother had an old cat Barsik alive, she had graters with neighbors. He loved this "March" business! laughing
          Therefore, my mother had to attach his offspring. However, he was notable as a rat-catcher and therefore there were no particular problems. They came for kittens from the nearest towns.
          1. Malyuta
            Malyuta 3 March 2021 11: 12
            +18
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            That's right - the cat is the world's most animal.

            By the way, the day before yesterday was World Cat Day! good
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 14: 39
              +4
              Now, I understand why the hamsters have stuck cons to us !!! laughing
  • Million
    Million 3 March 2021 08: 34
    +6
    The main message of the article: komunyaki came and ruined everything.
    Naturally, the Bolsheviks, having come to power, could not admit the existence in their country of such effective, and most importantly, self-government bodies independent of them.
  • depressant
    depressant 3 March 2021 08: 44
    +12
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: WHAT IS
    I agree, it was not without deception and betrayal, thanks to the marked one ... and how he breathed, how he breathed ..

    There was an article "They made their way and are falling apart" And again, there was NOT ENOUGH BRAINS. And they deceived and betrayed, and everyone clapped their ears, and together believed ... And the KGB ... believed everything!

    Just don't need it, Vyacheslav Olegovich. This, of course, if you did not put sarcasm in your words. Nothing was done without the knowledge of the KGB! And not only was it not done, the KGB is one of the active organizers of the collapse of the Union. As soon as the local fascists, with the knowledge and consent and in complete friendship with the city administration, began to slaughter Russians in the winter of 83-84 ahead of time in my town, the censorship of letters and telegrams at the post office immediately began, so that information would not penetrate into Central Russia at the level of privates citizens. They say that the locals were in a hurry, the time has not yet come for the destruction of the Union, it is still necessary to process the Russians in Central Russia, bring them to a common denominator, so that it turns out that they fell asleep in one country, woke up in many others, and it is too late to wave their arms. They took the tanks and brought us in. So those tanks stood in the central square until the collapse of the Soviet Union. Could it have been done without the knowledge of the KGB? ..
    So don't be kidding! My mother had the folly to send a letter to the Committee at the same time.
  • bober1982
    bober1982 3 March 2021 08: 48
    +1
    The painting by G. Myasoedov "Zemstvo is having lunch", in my opinion, unsuccessfully illustrates the article, that is, it catches up melancholy and sets it in a certain way, it would be more fun to put a reproduction of the picture, especially since such pictures from the peasant life of Myasoedov exist.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 11: 00
      +1
      Quote: bober1982
      The painting by G. Myasoedov "Zemstvo is having lunch", in my opinion, unsuccessfully illustrates the article, that is, it catches up melancholy and sets it in a certain way, it would be more fun to put a reproduction of the picture, especially since such pictures from the peasant life of Myasoedov exist.

      Good afternoon! Vyacheslav Olegovich apparently did not set the task of popularizing - "zemshchina". However, he turned out to be right, only extreme views prevail in the comments. The lot of the moderates - execution on the spot.
      On the other hand, Myasoedov is a contemporary of those events. As far as I remember, the picture was not easy for him. So it makes sense to perceive his work as real, and not an ephemeral truth about the Zemshchina.
      There were pluses as a result of the Zemstvo reform - yes, they were definitely, but there were also disadvantages! Good or bad, probably more good than bad, but bad (forgive me for the tautology) should also be remembered.
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 3 March 2021 11: 47
      +1
      I don’t remember any other paintings by Myasoedov
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 3 March 2021 12: 01
        +2
        Quote: Astra wild2
        I don’t remember any other paintings by Myasoedov

        "Congratulations to the Young in the House of the Landowner", a very life-affirming canvas.
        1. Richard
          Richard 3 March 2021 14: 30
          +8
          I don’t remember any other paintings by Myasoedov

          Already myasoyedov's "Passionate Time", "The Road in the Rye", "The Bride's Bride" you must have seen literature in a Soviet school textbook. Or haven't you already?
          And personally, I really like his "Forest River"

          I remember her from childhood - my mother glued a postcard of this picture to a wooden box, varnished it and kept needle-threads there
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 3 March 2021 14: 34
            +3
            Quote: Richard
            Or haven't you already?

            You have confused the addressee, I mean your questions.
            1. Richard
              Richard 3 March 2021 14: 46
              +6
              Dear Vladimir, the fact that my comment was under yours is not for me, but for the site.
              I did not answer you, but Astra, as can be seen from her quote at the top of my comment:
              I don’t remember any other paintings by Myasoedov
              .
              PS. By the way, "+" for "Congratulations to the young in the house of the landowner" to you from me smile
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 3 March 2021 14: 57
                +4
                Dear Richard, just a message came from you, for some reason to me, got confused. With respect
                1. Richard
                  Richard 3 March 2021 15: 00
                  +5
                  No wonder!
                  The site has recently become quite often "kinky" with arrows
                  drinks
  • depressant
    depressant 3 March 2021 09: 18
    +9
    I’ll just express my thoughts.
    What else dresses me up in the history of our state? Either a lag or an unjustified advance of history.
    They destroyed the community, belatedly revived it in the form of a zemstvo, and received a luly for all the good.
    They destroyed the successful Stalinist cooperatives, and immediately some of them, prone to crime, went underground, created the basis of total corruption, merged with political and law enforcement agencies, which in turn became a powerful economic platform for the so-called Gorbachev's perestroika. A naive, short-sighted cooperative crime was brought to light, but he was also slammed as a competitor to the corrupt government, which itself wished to become an expropriator crime. Restoration! The same restoration, to which ruthless grabbers went throughout the years of Soviet power. The unfinished Civil War finally ended, putting tens of millions of innocent people in the graves.
    What's on the horizon? Many people say: state capitalism. No, you are wrong! Ahead is the power of transnational corporations, and their states are running errands. This is the first stage in the transformation of corporations into absolute power. Then there will be no states either.
    And so idyllic, so quiet and peaceful against this monstrous background, which with its chenoty already peeps through the fabric of our life, the arguments about the zemstvo look like a distant, heavenly Arcadia ...
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 3 March 2021 11: 12
      +2
      Lyudmila Yakovlevna, I agree with you. We like to shy away from side to side.
      And on the ground they love to run in front of the translation.
      Down with private property. From now on, everything is common: From women to spoons. On fig spoons, we can and without! People look at "the runner in front" and think: "With this power we have a grain of salt."
      "Corn is bread, corn is milk" Let's plant corn at the North Pole! Then internally Iowa overtaking! In Iowa, they look and think "these Russian stupid people. The Lord Himself tells them to be driven into a corner."
      "Down with the general drunkenness" and uprooted the vineyards.
      No coercion! From now on, everything is private and mind, and education, and everyone is his own state.
      And stop and think: corn is certainly good, but will it grow at the North Pole?
      Alcohol is certainly bad, but uprooting vineyards is also not the case.
      General granulation is also not the case, but it is impossible without state regulation. At first, they said, get rich as you wish, and now they are introducing cash registers. Naturally, merchants do not need them: he will sell for 100 rubles, and pay the tax for 1 ruble. Okay, now the cash registers are so bad.
      EVERYTHING NEEDS A MEASURE, but we have extremes
      1. kalibr
        3 March 2021 11: 29
        -1
        Quote: vladcub
        and we have extremes

        From a low level of culture and education. First of all - humanitarian! This was pointed out to Nicholas the First by the French envoy to Russia. but ... did not heed. And it's clear why.
        1. depressant
          depressant 3 March 2021 12: 21
          +5
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, but really such a deep and comprehensive education was and is in the West? Some basics - yes, to be able to calculate for a purchase, to sell something, some knowledge of the profession. But that these people were really smarter than us, I will never believe.
          Humanitarian, you say ...
          Yes, I remember a movie I saw with Dustin Hoffman, I think, well, or with someone else. The poem was sorted out in the lesson. What did the author mean? What did you want to say? What does this phrase mean? How to understand it? And this word - what does it mean? Why is this comparison used? And so on ... The main thing is to look for meaning.
          We were asked to memorize a verse, and from how clearly you rattled it off - sit down, five. But after all, they still taught to determine the theme, idea, role of this or that image in the canvas of the work, they taught a lot. In those years I felt like a literary critic.
          We also had developmental training - it was!
          There was nothing else - an established household tradition, a way of life.
          The strength of a tradition that has been forming for them for centuries and has survived despite all the political and military upheavals. Because they had nowhere to go - small territories, and nations on a common small - more than in bulk. Do you want to mean something? Stick to the national tradition! And if in tribal communities such a tradition is archaic, in Western countries, in addition to unchanging everyday traditions, it contains elements of increasing civilization. After all, if you do not spin, grow above yourself, then the neighbors will impose their tradition, and then each of you no longer means anything.
          And we have successfully destroyed everything Russian with a swing. The material got tired from rolling and disintegrated into atoms.
          1. kalibr
            3 March 2021 13: 34
            +1
            Quote: depressant
            There was nothing else - an established household tradition, a way of life.

            The conclusion is correct. Bravo to you! But ... you should write a list of books banned in the USSR? But reading them could develop consciousness, point out the ways of overcoming possible "holes" and mistakes? There was no such thing. And - yes, the bulk is taught ... it doesn't hurt. But the elite is getting an excellent education. I judge this by the books written by representatives of this elite. And what are you judging by?
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 3 March 2021 16: 33
              +3
              "overcoming possible" holes "and mistakes" higher education, humanities. I read: "Archipilaggulag" and regretted the time and money spent
            2. Foul skeptic
              Foul skeptic 3 March 2021 17: 36
              +1
              Do you want to write a list of books banned in the USSR?

              write please ))
              and then let's move on to
              But reading them could develop consciousness, point out the ways of overcoming possible "holes" and mistakes?
              1. kalibr
                3 March 2021 18: 57
                +3
                All of Trotsky's books, including Revolution Betrayed, all Chayanov's books, all Pareto's books, Orwell's 1984, his Farewell Catalonia! And Animal Farm. And that's enough for now ...
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 3 March 2021 15: 36
          +3
          From the lack of a liberal arts education.?
          In fact, Nikolai Pavlovich Romanov was not a non-commissioned officer Prishibeev. He knew about fortification, music, watched performances
          1. kalibr
            3 March 2021 15: 42
            +1
            Svyatoslav! It doesn't matter who he was. It is important what he considered useful to the people and what was not. Find the very first article in the POISONED FEATHER series. There is just about it.
    2. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 3 March 2021 13: 41
      +1
      Forgive me, please, but I just could not ignore the false propaganda of Stalinism.
      This is how much you need to hate the Russian people in order to just mock at its history, calling Stalin's cooperatives successful ?!
      The party elite began to actively merge with criminals immediately after the removal from power of the first generation of revolutionaries, who were still for the most part ideological.
      Transnational companies are not an object of power, they are only an instrument of neo-imperialism (globalism), in comparison with the economies of states and are not close in scale.
      1. depressant
        depressant 3 March 2021 14: 15
        +3
        Colleague Nestor Vlakhovski, I will leave your remark about the Stalinist cooperation aside. About cooperation - another time, it was just a tribute to society, which mentally could not yet leave the old time, and in the new one had to gradually dissolve.
        Let's leave aside the transnational companies that are being intensively created and nurtured here, in Russia.

        I want to answer Vyacheslav Olegovich.

        But the elite is getting an excellent education. I judge this by the books written by representatives of this elite. And what are you judging by?

        Apparently, the Western classics that I happened to read were written by representatives of this elite or people who know the traditions of society well. Well, take The Forsyte Saga, for example. Ladies-aristocrats are dressed in the fashion of the 30s, they are sitting behind the wheel of a car (I read as a schoolgirl, and was shocked - aristocrats and behind the wheel? Do they drive themselves?), Their speech and attitudes have changed, but most importantly, the tradition has remained unchanged. Aristocrats are the masters of life, albeit tough and sometimes cruel, but responsible managers who shape the life of an accountable population. And the population seems to agree with this, although it grumbles. And nothing, everyone tolerates each other. And they still endure without pretending to revolution. The Queen's Departures. Princess Diana, wives of princes, pleasant scandals in the royal family, beneficially occupying the plebeian stratum, reverence for the royal court in India and Australia. And at the same time, the evolution of relations within the walls of ancient castles and mansions, not outstripping the new technical order, but sufficient to keep pace with the new time. And the tradition: you live yourself, let the one who is beneficial to you live. They saved themselves. The public felling of the royal heads helped.
        Looking at them, our collective farm aristocracy is pushing. But we know its origin. And they knew its price.
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 15: 44
          +1
          Very good comment, Lyudmila Yakovlevna!
      2. kalibr
        3 March 2021 14: 49
        -1
        Quote: Nestor Vlahovski
        This is how much you need to hate the Russian people in order to just mock at its history, calling Stalin's cooperatives successful ?!
        The party elite began to actively merge with criminals immediately after the removal from power of the first generation of revolutionaries, who were still for the most part ideological.

        It’s you, Nestor, you’re probably not used to it ... There are such people here ... “shots” that do not know with their ear or snout in which direction the door to the archive opens in their city, but they are ready to “fall to tear” by the mustache ...
  • BAI
    BAI 3 March 2021 10: 11
    +4
    In the first decade alone, more than 10 thousand zemstvo schools appeared in Russia. By 1911, there were already 27 of these schools, by 486 there were more than 1914, that is, in fact, universal primary education in the country was introduced de facto and precisely through the efforts not of the state, but of the zemstvo!

    I will even say more:
    The number of schools opened by 1917 was about 140 thousand. This is 5 thousand more than in 2020.

    But (and as you know, everything before the word "but" is horse g ..):
    Zemstvo schools looked quite decent on paper in annual reports, especially since it was impossible to verify this. In fact, the majority of schools, especially in places remote from Moscow and St. Petersburg, did not meet the requirements in terms of educational, economic, and hygienic requirements. They were alienated both from the centers of enlightenment and from the people, differing in their hopeless bureaucracy. And there were very few emotional teachers who rushed to bring enlightenment to the peasantry, such as Leo Tolstoy and the Decembrists.
    Peasant schools at the beginning of the reign of Alexander II, for the most part, were set up at home, and not in special school buildings. The teachers were often the peasants themselves, retired soldiers, clerks. The academic year was interrupted for various reasons. The maximum that such an elementary school gave was the ability to read and write.
    .... thousands of schools were rather conditional. Either no more than 4-5 children studied there, or the schools did not work all year. Many zemstvo schools were one-class: one class - one teacher.

    Education in Tsarist Russia. Zemskaya school
    Oleg Dankir
    https://proza.ru/2020/03/22/78
    PS. Dates of dissertations do not shine with novelty. No newer? Has the topic lost its relevance?
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 11: 54
      +2
      Quote: BAI
      Dates of dissertations do not shine with novelty. No newer? Has the topic lost its relevance?

      I usually only recommend what I've read myself. I did not look for newer ones and did not read them. Maybe they are. I do not know. At one time I was engaged in this topic, and my graduate student Piterova defended herself precisely on it. Her job is on the list.
      1. BAI
        BAI 3 March 2021 15: 52
        +5
        Dissertations on the Internet 1998-2001. Dankir - 2020, but not a dissertation. Obviously, the fashion on the topic has passed. And, judging by the dissertations and Dankir, the views on zemstvo education have changed from "excellent" to "there is something, but so-so."
        In general, everyone can evaluate education in the Republic of Ingushetia not by someone chewed gum, but by primary sources, such as:
        1. kalibr
          3 March 2021 15: 56
          +2
          Well, what are you talking about? To whom, when and why? I always recommend the magazine RODINA with beautiful color pictures ... And who began to read it on VO? And you a book with yatami and fita, stumbling your tongue ... Idealism, by God!
        2. kalibr
          3 March 2021 15: 57
          +2
          Quote: BAI
          Obviously, the fashion on the topic has passed.

          Ha! Somehow I'll write about this ... It's funny ...
          1. depressant
            depressant 3 March 2021 16: 53
            +4
            It is unlikely that the fashion for the zemstvo has passed and the topic is outdated. Just imagine, my village near Moscow, 15 years ago. The village is poor, one might say beggar. The main enterprise is closed, the specialists have dispersed in all directions, only those who managed to get apartments here, as well as military pensioners and former workers from the locals, remained from the intelligentsia. The losses of the 90s are still fresh in their memory - violence, murder, death from hunger, suicide, sharp impoverishment up to complete impoverishment, when all anything worthwhile are sold ... And nevertheless, the era when the population is in power I completely forgot, it is still going on, and the population is active! Some kind of protest rallies, some meetings where important issues for the village are discussed (even I went to these meetings, listened and found out how many smart people there are in the village), decisions are made and implemented through public hearings, the deputy does not sleep the building, they have a showdown with the mayor, housing and communal services, with the regional authorities, campaigning before the elections, candidates walk around the courtyards, gather their meetings, the population expresses everything that they think about them ...
            Now it is believed that these were the "saints of the 90s", democracy and freedom, and therefore it was so. No! If this was freedom, then the complete freedom of people from the state, which, I repeat, simply forgot about the population, considering it a faceless, meaningless mass. It, the state, took care of itself, thus giving the people the opportunity to deal with themselves. And our village people, knowing nothing about the traditions of the zemstvo, quickly revived these traditions, taking the village life under tight control. Apparently, because the zemstvo is a natural form of self-organization in the life of small settlements, but significant affairs.
            And then it all died under the pressure of the laws that abolish life. Poisonous corruption flourished in full bloom. And now it seems even strange that the deputies had reception days, and the people went to them, and something was decided.
            1. BAI
              BAI 3 March 2021 17: 35
              +4
              And our village people, knowing nothing about the traditions of the zemstvo, quickly revived these traditions, taking the village life under tight control.


              Are you sure that these are the traditions of the zemstvo?

              As numerous critics of the reform have noted, the "zemstvo structure"
              immediately turned out to be deprived as a "foundation" - of the lower, volost zemstvos
              - and the "roof" - the all-Russian representative body, which,
              like the State Duma M.M. Speransky, would have crowned
              zemstvo system. And this, on the one hand, inevitably tore off such
              system from the "earth", from the daily, most urgent needs of the local
              population, and on the other - deprived her of the opportunity to represent the interests of all
              of the innocent population of Russia / 1 /.
              1. Lewandowski A. Self-government in the context of autocracy. // Knowledge is power. 1992. No. 2.
              P.68
              .


              Something turns out that the zemstvo is primarily to make life easier for officials, everything else is secondary.
              1. depressant
                depressant 3 March 2021 18: 20
                +3
                Well, I wrote that when they remembered the people at the top, they quickly put in place such laws, according to which the administration is not elected, but appointed, and our people withered. Everyone understood everything. The mayor began to bow to the district authorities, then he was replaced by one who bows even lower, and the mechanism of influencing the administration through the self-organization of caring citizens was never formed, it stalled, and with it the administrative and parliamentary initiative stalled, complete silence. Something does not seem that in this state of life there were signs of a zemstvo. It, apparently, was born here in some way, but quickly died. Due to the inconsistency with the era in which we are being built in by those who have more power.
            2. kalibr
              3 March 2021 18: 53
              +2
              Quote: depressant
              Apparently, because the zemstvo is a natural form of self-organization in the life of small settlements, but significant affairs.

              How good you say it, zhenschina, big head, no doubt, it’s true to think a lot, a lot ...
              1. depressant
                depressant 3 March 2021 20: 20
                +5
                Vyacheslav Olegovich, well, you are a joker! I didn’t think, all this time I was busy with the housekeeping: washing, cleaning, cooking, washing dishes ... Here is an ambush with washing dishes! Do not have time to wash it, as again some glass turns out to be with a bottom covered with coffee, the pan from under the cooked jelly must be washed, and so on. Especially here you will not hesitate. I don't know how to do two things at once: think about something abstract and fiddle with water. Water itself requires thoughtful thinking. And then, not even one hour, you can drown in a glass. Even if it's just water. So that's it! )))
  • vladcub
    vladcub 3 March 2021 10: 26
    +7
    "All-Russian zemstvo and city union (Zemgor)" officials of this department were called: "zemgusars"
  • Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 3 March 2021 11: 26
    +3
    I agree that the Zemstvo reform is one of the most important, if not the most important.
    We still have people who know how to run the entire state much more than those who know how to remove snow on the roads of the municipality in time ...
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 3 March 2021 14: 45
      0
      Quote: Senior Sailor
      I agree that the Zemstvo reform is one of the most important, if not the most important.
      We still have people who know how to run the entire state much more than those who know how to remove snow on the roads of the municipality in time ...

      For that you will find a thousand who know how to “save money” on snow removal! laughing
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 3 March 2021 11: 45
    0
    Good afternoon everyone. Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you for your work.
    I don't always agree with you, but I try to read carefully
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 11: 52
      +3
      A list of references is given at the end of the article. Of course, hardly any of the readers of VO will be honored to order a dissertation for reading at 500 apiece - this is unscientific fiction. But to get acquainted with the content by reading the FREE abstract - why not?
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 3 March 2021 13: 50
    0
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, you always have a lot of illustrations in your works, but today there is only one.
    I read in fiction that ZemGor employees had a certain form. I would like to see what form they had
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 14: 54
      +2
      Aster! Do you know how much time it takes to search for such illustrations with an indication of the author, years of life and the address of an art gallery? Look: do many authors have it all? Although it's decent to give it. Or photos of rifles and pistols ... They jump to my text by themselves, right? So it’s a holiday for me when I have a legal basis to give only one illustration. By the way, it is not so easy to insert them into the VO. Text - bang and done. And you sit over them, you sit ...
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 4 March 2021 08: 13
        +1
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, you scolded me well, but you yourself taught me "honey every day and a ladle"
    2. frog
      frog 3 March 2021 16: 54
      +4
      Most often they had different military / paramilitary uniforms, but with their own epaulettes and insignia. I won't put my head on the sleepers for authenticity, but somehow ...



      And this is a well-known character, but also a Zemgusar
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 3 March 2021 18: 20
        +3
        Excellent photos! And this .... isn't it Petliura? hi
        1. frog
          frog 3 March 2021 19: 21
          +4
          He is)))
          1. Phil77
            Phil77 3 March 2021 19: 23
            +4
            Then I look ... a familiar face! wink
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 4 March 2021 08: 09
        0
        Thanks for the photos
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 3 March 2021 14: 43
    +1
    "self-government bodies that do not depend on them" Vyacheslav Olegovich, do not be a child. Who was part of the local zemstvos: nobles, merchants, and in the conditions of the Civil War, such a power .... Can you tell me where they will endure the enemy in their rear?
    A wolf in sheep's clothing that's what the Zemsky Committees in the GV are!
    1. kalibr
      3 March 2021 15: 49
      +2
      Quote: Astra wild2
      "self-government bodies that do not depend on them" Vyacheslav Olegovich, do not be a child. Who was part of the local zemstvos: nobles, merchants, and in the conditions of the Civil War, such a power .... Can you tell me where they will endure the enemy in their rear?

      And where do I have it written that they had to keep it all? WHERE? I stated a fact and no more ... Isn't it? That you are breaking into an open door. A new society is being built, elements of the old are, of course, destroyed. Even if they were effective in some way. Where did I argue with this? You need to read the text more attentively, without your own fantasies attributed to others. As the saying goes, I don't know what to find fault with, so at least a hole in my pants.
      1. Phil77
        Phil77 3 March 2021 18: 23
        +5
        So, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Who did you not designate you, but a child? This is a strong move! laughing
        Of course, thanks for the article! Very informative and interesting. hi
      2. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 4 March 2021 08: 28
        +1
        Well put in a corner. I think that in my teaching career, students were not put in a corner.
        In our elementary grades, they practiced this, and in the last school, the chemist punished in an original way: the offender to the blackboard and poisonously politely asks to tell the material that the offenders did not know. The more polite
        The more poison
  • Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 3 March 2021 16: 57
    +3
    However, it was in Russia (if the Zemsky Sobor planted the first Romanov as king!) Even ... before Peter I, who actually reduced him to zero.

    To put it bluntly, a controversial statement, given:
    1699 - the establishment of the town halls, local government bodies at the city level. Consisted of burgomasters and ratmans, elected by the population. They were in charge of commercial, industrial and townspeople, as well as the collection of taxes from them throughout the state.
    1724 - a new reform and organization of the system of city magistrates, which were local government bodies at the city level and the city court. Consisted andz elected by the citizens of the mayors and several ratmans, elected by the population. The commercial and industrial (merchants and bourgeois) population of cities was subordinated to them; they were also obliged to keep the police in their custody, start schools, orphanages and restraining houses, hospitals, stock exchanges. Subsequently they became purely judicial institutions; were in charge of all criminal and civil affairs of merchants and petty bourgeois.
    We must not forget the personally free state peasants, who appeared as a formalized group under Peter (At the time of the first census of 1724, state peasants were 19% of the population of Russia, in 1858 already 45% of the population). I quote: "... To groups of state peasants, represented by volost, rural and village societies, the legislator вalways allowed to gather in volostny, rural, village gatherings, to decide all kinds of sentences stipulated by the general decisions of civil laws, sentences regarding their private life. "(Alekseev SG Local self-government of Russian peasants. XVIII-XIX centuries. 1902. State certificates.).