Military Review

Terrible surprise from Tula gunsmiths. What will the NATO Joint Armed Forces face in the European theater of operations?

118

Announced two weeks earlier by Bekkhan Ozdoev, the industrial director of the cluster of weapons, ammunition and special chemistry of Rostec, the launch of a program for the development of advanced anti-tank / multipurpose missile systems by specialists of the Tula JSC “Design Bureau of Instrument Making named after Academician A.G. Shipunov "became the subject of close attention, both observers of" Military Review ", and the most knowledgeable representatives of the readership of other domestic military analytical portals.


After all, the acquisition of operational combat readiness and the supply of these anti-tank weapons to the combat units of the Russian Ground Forces will provide a number of extremely unpleasant surprises to the NATO command in the key operational areas of the European conventional theater of military operations.

Multispectral optical-electronic seeker will open new horizons for operators of promising Tula ATGMs


In particular, starting from the information voiced by Bekkhan Ozdoev about equipping the advanced anti-tank / multipurpose missiles being developed with multispectral optoelectronic homing heads operating in the infrared and television ranges, one can come to the conclusion that the new complexes will have a number of unique operational and tactical capabilities, inaccessible to the Kornet-E, Konkurs-M and Metis-M1 ATGMs in service with classic semi-automatic laser beam control systems (as applied to Kornet-E) and wired command transmission lines.

At first, we are talking about the ability to defeat targets that are outside the limits of visual visibility for the operator (hiding either behind the "screen" of natural elements of the terrain, or in dense urban development).

This is achieved due to the complete autonomy of the operating modes of the inertial navigation unit and the infrared-television seeker (without the need to automatically keep the missile in the line of sight of the target throughout the entire flight path until the latter is hit).

Meanwhile, both at the initial and terminal sections of the trajectory, radio correction can be carried out with the subsequent re-targeting of the ATGM homing head for target designation from third-party sources of radar or optical-electronic reconnaissance in the event that a higher priority target was detected or the capture of the previous object was disrupted in communication with the use of the enemy by means of optical-electronic countermeasures.

Secondly, this is the ability to implement a flight in the "slide" mode, with the entrance to a near-vertical dive at angles of 85-87 degrees at the terminal section of the trajectory, which in some cases may allow a promising ATGM to bypass the elevation sector of the radar guidance of obsolete active protection complexes, or an elevation sector of destruction of 20-mm anti-aircraft artillery complexes Mk 15 "Vulcan Phalanx" CIWS in shipborne or ground self-propelled modifications.

Thirdly, - this is the ability to fire from closed positions on the "let it go" principle with an immediate change of positions, which, together with the absence of the need to use an emitting laser-beam guidance channel (used in ATGM "Kornet-E"), by orders of magnitude minimizes the probability opening the location of the ATGM firing position, ensuring the safety of the operator and maintaining the combat stability of the complex.

Meanwhile, it should be noted that the absence of an active radar guidance module (operating in the millimeter Ka-band) in the electronic architecture of the guidance systems of the promising Tula ATGMs,

firstly, will not provide the infrared-television seeker with the proper level of noise immunity in the event the enemy uses modern optical-electronic suppression (including optical-laser).

And secondly, will not allow maintaining the same range of direction finding and target acquisition on

"Accurate auto tracking"

in difficult meteorological conditions.

All-weather self-propelled ATGM "Chrysanthemum-S" equipped with millimeter (operating in the frequency range from 100 to 150 GHz) guidance radars and 9M123-2 ATGM with a radio command guidance system can boast much higher efficiency in this situation.
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  1. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 19 February 2021 04: 28
    +19
    Reducing the gap, that's just fine!

    in difficult meteorological conditions.
    All-weather self-propelled ATGM "Chrysanthemum-S" equipped with millimeter (operating in the frequency range from 100 to 150 GHz) guidance radars and 9M123-2 ATGM with a radio command guidance system can boast much higher efficiency in this situation.
    The author crossed out, completely illogically, almost his entire article! Chrysanthemum needs line of sight for guidance! And with the seeker, simply increasing the consumption of missiles can be dispensed with! Expensive, but war is expensive!
    1. onstar9
      onstar9 19 February 2021 05: 19
      -71%
      And what, someone is going to attack Russia? Or we want to "give in the face" for the sanctions?
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 05: 30
        +33
        Quote: onstar9
        And what, someone is going to attack Russia?

        Yes, like bae, non-brothers every day tell how soon the parade will be held either in Sevastopol or on Red Square.
      2. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 19 February 2021 05: 43
        +26
        Quote: onstar9
        And what, someone is going to attack Russia?

        And that's all, in this regard, the Armed Forces do not need to be maintained and equipped? So quickly get together, in that case.
        1. Civil
          Civil 19 February 2021 06: 38
          -21%
          What will the NATO Joint Armed Forces face in the European theater of operations?

          From the cycle "Ring of enemies around Russia", but money and children in the damned West)
          Do you believe that fathers and grandfathers will go against their children and real estate? laughing
          1. Cottodraton
            Cottodraton 19 February 2021 07: 11
            +14
            Not tired of sucking on the same comment from day to day? ... Moreover, in almost every topic.
            1. Civil
              Civil 19 February 2021 08: 01
              -20%
              Quote: Cottodraton
              Not tired of sucking on the same comment from day to day? ... Moreover, in almost every topic.

            2. Paranoid50
              Paranoid50 19 February 2021 09: 29
              +8
              Quote: Cottodraton
              the same comment every day ?.

              Do not pay attention - this is the identification marker of the local cycloid hangout. yes laughing
          2. businessv
            businessv 20 February 2021 16: 35
            +3
            Quote: Civil
            Do you believe that fathers and grandfathers will go against their children and real estate?
            Are you firmly convinced that these non-humans will surrender the country without a fight? So under Minin and Pozharsky it was the same, but the people did not disappoint, Russia remained! The main thing is not to make people angry, but they are already at the boiling point! Such confrontation with those who have homes and families over the hill, their current neglect of the people will rise more expensive!
          3. XXXIII
            XXXIII 20 February 2021 20: 03
            +1
            Quote: Civil
            What will the NATO Joint Armed Forces face in the European theater of operations?

            From the cycle "Ring of enemies around Russia", but money and children in the damned West)
            Do you believe that fathers and grandfathers will go against their children and real estate? laughing

            Who will believe you, in such an ancient heresy of all times and peoples, the West is about to fall apart. laughing But as they say, if you want peace, prepare for war. During the Second World War, Russian émigrés were also in Germany, this did not prevent Goebbels from attacking the USSR. So money and children will not stop the war if there is such a thing in their heads. War is a collective undertaking either agree or traitor.
      3. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 19 February 2021 07: 24
        +32
        Do you have a lock on the front door of your apartment?
        What for? Do not be afraid.
        no one is going to "attack" you. Yes, and people around, "good" ()
      4. Flooding
        Flooding 19 February 2021 08: 15
        +16
        Quote: onstar9
        And what, someone is going to attack Russia? Or we want to "give in the face" for the sanctions?

        Maintaining the parity of forces, or better, superiority, is exactly what is needed in order not to attack.
        Are you completely familiar with the history of Russia?
      5. Hagen
        Hagen 19 February 2021 08: 28
        +3
        Quote: onstar9
        And what, someone is going to attack Russia? Or we want to "give in the face" for the sanctions?

        Europe, in fact, already makes the 5th generation ATGM. The Tula go in the same direction. The product can be hit in the face, or you can sell it to interested countries. The mastered technologies are in any case not superfluous.
        1. Sotskiy
          Sotskiy 19 February 2021 09: 42
          +4
          Quote: Hagen
          The product can be hit in the face, or you can sell it to interested countries.

          We know how to do this. Somehow, in the 90s, interested persons from military warehouses already sold some types of weapons and ammunition to the emissaries of one interested "country" called "free Ichkeria", how this affected the interests and combat capability of the Russian Federation at that time, probably there is no need to explain.
          1. Hagen
            Hagen 19 February 2021 16: 36
            -7
            Quote: Sovetskiy
            We know how to do this. Somehow in the 90s, interested persons from military warehouses already sold some types of weapons and ammunition to emissaries of one interested "country" called "free Ichkeria"

            You are so confident about this ... Did you yourself participate? Have you bought? Or vice versa...?
            1. Sotskiy
              Sotskiy 19 February 2021 18: 16
              +4
              Quote: Hagen
              You are so confident about this ... Did you yourself participate? Have you bought? Or vice versa...?

              What is the opposite?
              1. Hagen
                Hagen 19 February 2021 18: 34
                -4
                Quote: Sovetskiy
                What is the opposite?

                On the contrary, from a purchase there can only be a sale ...
                1. Sotskiy
                  Sotskiy 19 February 2021 18: 50
                  +3
                  Quote: Hagen
                  Quote: Sovetskiy
                  What is the opposite?

                  On the contrary, from a purchase there can only be a sale ...

                  Did he understand himself that he was piling up here?
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 19 February 2021 19: 50
                    -1
                    Quote: Sovetskiy
                    Did he understand himself that he was piling up here?

                    For those who are on the armored train ... Do you have reliable proven information on the sales of weapons from the warehouses of the RF Armed Forces to Chechnya in volumes corresponding to the phrase "we know how ..."? Or have you seen enough kin?
                    1. Sotskiy
                      Sotskiy 19 February 2021 21: 07
                      +2
                      Quote: Hagen
                      Quote: Sovetskiy
                      Did he understand himself that he was piling up here?

                      For those who are on the armored train ... Do you have reliable proven information on the sales of weapons from the warehouses of the RF Armed Forces to Chechnya in volumes corresponding to the phrase "we know how ..."? Or have you seen enough kin?

                      For those who are on an armored train, information directly from those who served in the first Chechen war.
                      For yourself, carefully read this entertaining book and note that no one filed a lawsuit against Govorukhin for libel wink
                      1. Hagen
                        Hagen 19 February 2021 21: 35
                        -4
                        Quote: Sovetskiy
                        For those who are on an armored train, information directly from those who served in the first Chechen war.

                        In short, unsubstantiated verbiage. Any accusation is worth something when it is proven or when people are ready to sacrifice life or honor for it. And songs from someone else's voice are not expensive. Such govorukhin in the 90s put a lot of effort into the collapse of the country's defense, and of the country itself. Today we are reaping the benefits ... Do not crap yourself.
                      2. Sotskiy
                        Sotskiy 19 February 2021 21: 49
                        +2
                        Quote: Hagen
                        Such govorukhin in the 90s put a lot of effort into the collapse of the country's defense, and of the country itself.

                        belay How so? Don't you trust Govorukhin? He was the first to drown for Yeltsin and democracy, against the "totalitarian scoop", and how he described all the "charm" of Yeltsin's rule, in relation to the same Chechnya, so immediately "unsubstantiated verbiage." lol You really decide.
                      3. Hagen
                        Hagen 21 February 2021 09: 38
                        -1
                        Quote: Sovetskiy
                        How so? Don't you trust Govorukhin? He was the first to drown for Yeltsin and democracy

                        And you would not attribute your addiction to shape-shifters to me. It was not me who threw the herbarium of candy wrappers from Govorukhin into the network. And from what side did you impute solidarity with EBN to me?
                        Quote: Sovetskiy
                        and how he described all the "charm" of Yeltsin's rule, in relation to the same Chechnya, so immediately "unsubstantiated verbiage"

                        You suggest reading the books of a person who has been marked by the support of all political figures from Gorbachev and Yeltsin to United Russia through Zyuganov. Read it yourself. Where there is truth, and Govorukhin himself would not have figured it out. So, for a start, decide yourself with whom you are about the same trench? It seems to me that by sowing distrust in our army, you, willingly or unwillingly, are working for our geopolitical enemy. so it turns out that you are either an enemy for the state, or you yourself do not understand what you are doing.
                2. Svidetel 45
                  Svidetel 45 20 February 2021 13: 00
                  0
                  He saw enough of Nevzorov
                  1. Hagen
                    Hagen 20 February 2021 14: 55
                    -1
                    Quote: Svidetel 45
                    He saw enough of Nevzorov

                    You are, in general, a finger to the sky ... without understanding ... laughing
  2. BAI
    BAI 19 February 2021 11: 25
    +4
    Someone is going to attack Russia

    That is why they are not going to, that due to the presence of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, properly equipped, at the stage of conception all desire disappears.
    It is better to have a strong army and not allow war than to have a weak army and constantly fight with those who want to test their strength.
  3. iouris
    iouris 19 February 2021 11: 38
    +1
    Sanctions are an attack.
    1. Kerensky
      Kerensky 20 February 2021 00: 13
      +2
      Sanctions are an attack.

      Sanctions are imposed against "their own". If, for example, I forbid Avtovaz to sell cars to the Baltics, then did I attack them?
  4. Trapp1st
    Trapp1st 19 February 2021 12: 14
    +5
    Or we want to "give in the face" for the sanctions?
    The main thing was that there was an opportunity, and when and for what, we'll figure it out!
  5. Guru
    Guru 20 February 2021 09: 39
    +1
    And what, someone is going to attack Russia? Or we want to "give in the face" for the sanctions?

    No, not going laughing But we want PEACE, so we are preparing for War.
  6. Indifferent
    Indifferent 20 February 2021 23: 22
    +1
    The Spanish newspaper was so offended by Russia for receiving Barosa that it called on all European countries to march against our country. And these are not entirely empty words. This is the Overton's window. No wonder Lavrov called for preparations for war. The world does not expect anything good in the future. The people got drunk and it's time to "lower" them into poverty and want. This is an objective reality! There have been no big wars for too long!
  7. Sirocco
    Sirocco 21 February 2021 05: 35
    +1
    Quote: onstar9
    And what, someone is going to attack Russia? Or we want to "give in the face" for the sanctions?

    We have already been attacked, and this attack has been going on since 2008 in an active phase, or do you disagree with that? True, the war today is going on, so to speak, a hybrid, that is, not like the Second World War, but the territorial losses of the Russian Federation today are greater than in the Second World War, all the republics of the union were captured during this attack, and with internal potential (patriotism, industry, and other attributes of the state, the same problem)
  • figwam
    figwam 19 February 2021 06: 55
    +1
    Quote: Vladimir_2U
    Expensive, but war is expensive!

    The new ATGM will be the answer to the American Javelin.
    1. dSK
      dSK 19 February 2021 07: 12
      +4
      Quote: figvam
      response to American Javelin.

      It's high time, the Chinese are already exporting these clones ...
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 20 February 2021 08: 28
    0
    And what is the lag? The Kornet shot ensures the defeat of any tank, and the shot with two missiles breaks through the active defense. Our only lag is in the cost of ATGM missiles, cheap. So soon the rocket will cost like a tank.
    1. ironic
      ironic 21 February 2021 01: 04
      0
      No longer. There are already solutions that can respond to a double shot.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 21 February 2021 13: 31
        0
        As soon as it is implemented, there is a solution for this. For example: a rocket is flying in front, which, when it explodes, creates a short-term electromagnetic pulse temporarily disabling the active protection radar, or something even more interesting. The eternal dispute between the shield and the sword.
        1. ironic
          ironic 21 February 2021 14: 41
          -1
          It has already been implemented in one system and a powerful and clever impulse is needed so that the RPL is lowered and not slapped, but the dispute between the sword and the shield will certainly continue.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 24 February 2021 18: 49
      0
      Once I watched a certain TV show ... like an "international TV panorama" ... They showed how American marines train on the deck of a landing ship ... I look, and they "go in" with a TOW-2 ATGM! And this is despite the fact that a considerable number of "Javelins" have been in service for a long time! The catch is that "javelins" are good (!), But the roads are ... about three times! Remember what the actor Kartsev said? "Crayfish ... large 5 re, and small 3 re! So let there be those and others! Let there be straps with multispectral GOS. But there will be" cornets "! "! Take, for example, TOW-2 ... modifications are very diverse! And with a wired guidance system, and by radio beam, and with a tandem-cumulative warhead, and with EFP-charges for destruction from the top without any" jumping "and diving. ..and anti-bunker! And if we take into account the prototypes with a laser-beam guidance system and the attempt to turn the TOW into a hypersonic anti-tank missile? And the Kornet series lacks a missile with EFP charges to destroy armor from the top, and a missile with a semi-active laser seeker ... You can "remember" and "Cornet" with a shrapnel "leader" ...
  • ironic
    ironic 21 February 2021 01: 02
    0
    The Russian Spike project? Well, when the same had to start.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 05: 23
    +12
    Ha.
    Today Damantsev is not at his best, he wrote an almost readable text without abbreviations, listing names that are not related to the topic, and other verbal husks.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 05: 28
    +2
    And if on the topic, then the absence, even in the long term, of really multispectral GOS (IR, TV, radio, laser) already introduced by our "partners" is a consequence of the state of our electronics industry. What we discussed here just the other day.
    By the way, I learned quite by accident that critical components for nanometer photolithography machines for the manufacture of microcircuits are being developed and made in Russian research institutes.
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 19 February 2021 09: 15
      -3
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      the absence, even in the future, of really multispectral seeker

      They wrote to you in Russian in white - there will be multispectral. In due time - will be, for fear of enemies.
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 09: 28
        +1
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        will be multispectral. In due time - will be, for fear of enemies.

        Duc I also wrote in Russian, the enemies have long been. And much more "multi".
    2. Aag
      Aag 19 February 2021 14: 07
      -2
      Quote: Jacket in stock
      And if on the topic, then the absence, even in the long term, of really multispectral GOS (IR, TV, radio, laser) already introduced by our "partners" is a consequence of the state of our electronics industry. What we discussed here just the other day.
      By the way, I learned quite by accident that critical components for nanometer photolithography machines for the manufacture of microcircuits are being developed and made in Russian research institutes.

      "... critical components for machine tools for nanometer photolithography for the manufacture of microcircuits are developed and made in Russian research institutes ..."
      If possible, more details, please ..
      And ... separately: they "work it out" (unfinished action, the partners "seem to use the finished product)," produce ", - somewhat different things.
      No sarcasm and pricks ...
      1. Jacket in stock
        Jacket in stock 20 February 2021 06: 23
        +1
        Quote: AAG
        ... separately: "work out" (unfinished action, -partners "seem to use the finished product)," produce ", - somewhat different things.

        Developing means being the authors. And they are produced according to projects developed by themselves.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 19 February 2021 06: 18
    +1
    the ability to fire from closed positions on the "fire-and-forget" principle with an immediate change of positions
    This alone gives great advantages over the enemy. It remains only to wish the developers to fully achieve success in development, bring it to its logical conclusion and adopt the complex into service.
  • Ryaruav
    Ryaruav 19 February 2021 06: 31
    +2
    so it is like a javelin according to the principle of gsn
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 19 February 2021 09: 34
      -7
      Quote: Ryaruav
      so it is like a javelin according to the principle of gsn

      According to the principle, maybe yes. But on javelins there is an archaic matrix of low resolution and problems with target recognition in a difficult situation on the battlefield (burning vehicles, etc.).
      Our "smarter" will be.
  • Old tanker
    Old tanker 19 February 2021 06: 48
    +10
    will have a number of unique operational and tactical capabilities that are not available for the Kornet-E, Konkurs-M and Metis-M1 ATGMs in service

    He's delusional! ATGM will have operational and tactical capabilities! Isn't it time, in that case, to write off the Iskander ?!
    He completely blabbed in his obsession to throw in as many terms as possible, and without delving into their essence.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 19 February 2021 07: 01
      0
      Quote: Old Tankman
      He's delusional! ATGM will have operational and tactical capabilities!
      Not entirely nonsense, "Hermes" up to 100 km is declared in terms of range, and you yourself understand this already at the operational-tactical level.
      1. Old tanker
        Old tanker 19 February 2021 10: 05
        +11
        Operational-tactical tasks are determined not only and not so much by the distance, but by the damage inflicted on the enemy. A single defeat of a tank and even 10 tanks, well, in no way can affect the outcome of a division's battle, and even more so an army operation. And the operational-tactical link is the division-corps-army.
        To solve problems at the operational-tactical level, the appropriate means of destruction are: OTRK, MLRS "Smerch" / "Tornado-S" and "Uragan". Olna rocket MLRS "Smerch" 9M55K1 carries 5 homing SPBE "Motiv-3M" designed to destroy armored vehicles. And there are 12 of them on one installation! One volley of one installation and there is no whole group. That's what the operational-tactical level is! And not a single ATGM flying at 100 km.
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 19 February 2021 08: 07
    -8
    When they were "sucking on" javelins ", the main rhetoric was that" this is not a super weapon! ... "
    When today's news appeared, caps flew from the sofas into the ceilings and a loud "hurray!"
    PS Just in case, I looked out the window. No, NATO divisions do not march through the streets. However, the "Armata" and new ATGM systems also do not move towards the border ...
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 08: 33
      +4
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      No, NATO divisions do not march through the streets

      Do you really want to be marching?

      Some cities that were part of the country I was born in are already marching.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 19 February 2021 08: 42
        -10%
        Actually, I'm talking about the pathos of the title of the article. But if you are interested in the opinion of NATO, then this is not my army. And the fact that they have settled in the Baltics and are closely probing Azerbaijan, Ukraine ... So this is not their merit, but our foreign policy.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 19 February 2021 09: 42
          -2
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          And the fact that they have settled in the Baltics and are closely probing Azerbaijan, Ukraine ... So this is not their merit, but our foreign policy.

          You do not calculate further than a couple of moves.
          The enemy is lured closer in order to destroy it with a sudden and crushing blow.
          Just at the time when NATO members completely relax and lose their vigilance, here will appear in industrial quantities "Armata", Su-57, UAV, "Sotnik", well, new anti-tank systems.
  • Mikhail Ya2
    Mikhail Ya2 19 February 2021 08: 55
    +1
    What is unique? Just trying to catch up with jewels and spikes
  • Professor
    Professor 19 February 2021 09: 15
    +4
    And I recognize the dear by his walk ... and the author by the name. hi

    Announced two weeks earlier by Bekkhan Ozdoev, the industrial director of the cluster of weapons, ammunition and special chemistry of Rostec, the launch of a program for the development of advanced anti-tank / multipurpose missile systems by specialists of the Tula JSC “Design Bureau of Instrument Making named after Academician A.G. Shipunov "became the subject of close attention, both observers of" Military Review ", and the most knowledgeable representatives of the readership of other domestic military analytical portals.


    They announced that they were going to develop a third-generation ATGM system (the bourgeoisie has been in service for a quarter of a century, and the Zionists have it under 3) and the bourgeoisie are already hysterical. How can they not fight? wink After all, the hedgehog understands that if they start developing, they will do it by those who have no analogues in the world.

    And as they say, we will not let the facts confuse us. And the facts are as follows. According to the Russian developers themselves, the cost of the GOS is about 90% of the cost of an ATGM and, accordingly, a Cornet with a GOS in mass production will cost about $ 260. Https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/article/000/
    In addition, the homing system in the rocket head “eats up” almost 90% of the price and is killed along with the rocket. And the Kornet's guidance system remains in the launcher. Therefore, the Russian version is cheaper than the American and Israeli ones.
    http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/Kornet-ME_01.html
    The next fact is that the super-duper missiles with the seeker are still nat, and the KAZ is already on the combat bourgeois tanks.

    My disrespect to the author. negative
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 19 February 2021 12: 26
      0
      And since when did the Zionists become communists? And do not offend Damantsev the storyteller composes as best he can. laughing
    2. Guru
      Guru 20 February 2021 09: 43
      +1
      The GOS in mass production will cost about $ 260.
      You know, but in Russia it is measured in rubles, not in US dollars.
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 February 2021 10: 30
        +1
        Quote: Guru
        The GOS in mass production will cost about $ 260.
        You know, but in Russia it is measured in rubles, not in US dollars.

        Calculate in rubles? wink
        1. Guru
          Guru 20 February 2021 10: 46
          +1
          Calculate in rubles? wink
          We already have our own element base and the price for it is not what you think about, which means your estimates are very high at least twice.
          1. Professor
            Professor 20 February 2021 13: 39
            +1
            Quote: Guru
            Calculate in rubles? wink
            We already have our own element base and the price for it is not what you think about, which means your estimates are very high at least twice.

            1. Your element base is Chinese.
            2. According to your sources, a Kornet rocket is $ 26. With a seeker, it will cost 000 times more. Hence $ 10.
            1. Guru
              Guru 20 February 2021 14: 48
              +1
              Professor (Sokolov Oleg)
              Teska, you haven't been to Russia for a long time, and I have a factory outside the window. We ourselves are already doing all the elemental, but the only problem is that it is piecemeal.
              1. Professor
                Professor 20 February 2021 14: 57
                +2
                Quote: Guru
                Professor (Sokolov Oleg)
                Teska, you haven't been to Russia for a long time, and I have a factory outside the window. We ourselves are already doing all the elemental, but the only problem is that it is piecemeal.

                I have worked in the semiconductor industry for 20 years. The equipment was also supplied to the Russian Federation. I know very well what is going on with you.
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 24 February 2021 17: 36
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Calculate in rubles?

          Yeah ... and at the same time count the cost of a hamburger and hot dog in the USA and in Russia ... a loaf of bread, a loaf of sausage, a kilogram of potatoes ...
          1. Professor
            Professor 24 February 2021 18: 07
            0
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            Quote: Professor
            Calculate in rubles?

            Yeah ... and at the same time count the cost of a hamburger and hot dog in the USA and in Russia ... a loaf of bread, a loaf of sausage, a kilogram of potatoes ...

            What for? Your rocket costs $ xxx. With the GOS it will cost 10 times more. Now put the numbers you want and that's it.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 24 February 2021 18: 59
              0
              Quote: Professor
              What for? Your rocket costs $ xxx. With GOS it will cost 10 times more

              And then, that a hamburger "for dollars" in Russia will cost less than in the United States ... which means there is reason to believe that "Russo Javelin" will cost less ... And why "our rocket" will cost "10 times more"; and not 5 times? request
              1. Professor
                Professor 24 February 2021 21: 10
                +1
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                Quote: Professor
                What for? Your rocket costs $ xxx. With GOS it will cost 10 times more

                And then, that a hamburger "for dollars" in Russia will cost less than in the United States ... which means there is reason to believe that "Russo Javelin" will cost less ... And why "our rocket" will cost "10 times more"; and not 5 times? request

                Yours declare that 90% of the cost of the rocket is the GOS. Link above. Accordingly, the Cornet with the GOS will rise in price by 10 times.
                Now Cornet costs $ 26. Link above. Attention question: How much will the Cornet cost with the GOS? It's arithmetic ...
                1. Nikolaevich I
                  Nikolaevich I 24 February 2021 22: 33
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  90% of the cost of the rocket is the GOS. ... Accordingly, the Cornet with the GOS will rise in price by 10 times.
                  Now the Cornet costs $ 26. Attention question: How much will the Cornet with GOS cost? It's arithmetic ...
                  Mil pardon! But this is "cheating" arithmetic! You, nevertheless, "twist the cards"! It’s even somehow boring and embarrassing for me to explain to you, the professor wink how prices are formed, what factors affect pricing immediately or over time ... what these factors depend on .... and so on! request
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 25 February 2021 07: 33
                    +2
                    Yours declare that 90% of the cost of the rocket is the GOS. Link above. Accordingly, the Cornet with the GOS will rise in price by 10 times. No cheating, just data from your open sources.
                    Now Cornet costs $ 26. Link above. Attention question: How much will the Cornet with GOS cost?
                    1. Nikolaevich I
                      Nikolaevich I 25 February 2021 08: 20
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      Yours declare that 90% of the cost of the rocket is the seeker

                      Find fault, professor! This statement is rather rhetorical ... or, like "the average temperature in a hospital ward"! yes
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 25 February 2021 08: 40
                        +2
                        Quote: Nikolaevich I
                        Quote: Professor
                        Yours declare that 90% of the cost of the rocket is the seeker

                        Find fault, professor! This statement is rather rhetorical ... or, like "the average temperature in a hospital ward"! yes

                        We are about numbers, not philosophy. Let's say it is rounded and the GOS will cost you not 90% of the cost of the rocket, but only 75%. It will not change anything.
                      2. Nikolaevich I
                        Nikolaevich I 25 February 2021 10: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        We're about numbers, not philosophy.

                        Well, rhetoric isn't necessarily "philosophy"! It can be a tool to help you better understand "scale" numbers; that is, a means of persuading the "scale" of what was said!
                        Quote: Professor
                        The GOS will cost you not 90% of the cost of the rocket, but only 75%. It will not change anything.

                        Will not change? belay How will it change! With "large-scale" production!
                        By the way, how much did the Javelin cost at the beginning of production and a couple of years ago? And then, in my "archive" the necessary numbers are lost ...
                      3. Professor
                        Professor 25 February 2021 11: 32
                        +2
                        Quote: Nikolaevich I
                        Well, rhetoric isn't necessarily "philosophy"! It can be a means of helping to better understand the "scale" of numbers, that is, a means of persuading the "scale" of what is said!

                        You formulate it nicely though. Not in the subject, but beautiful. good

                        Quote: Nikolaevich I
                        Will not change? How will it change! With "large-scale" production!

                        No, it won't. Your labor productivity is 5 times less than that of bourgeois (DAMedvedev), a weak level of automation and, accordingly, the scale does not work. Moreover, the initial price is the price of a serial product. We dance from her.

                        Quote: Nikolaevich I
                        By the way, how much did the Javelin cost at the beginning of production and a couple of years ago? And then, in my "archive" the necessary numbers are lost ...

                        Oh, you shouldn't have asked. In vain. lol
                        KPU in 2002 cost $ 126,000, in 2019 $ 166.667
                        The rocket cost $ 2002 in 78,000, and $ 2019 in 174,083

                        FY19 Base procurement dollars in the amount of $ 123.425 million support the procurement of 709 Missiles

                        http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/antiarmor/Javelin.html
                        https://www.asafm.army.mil/Portals/72/Documents/BudgetMaterial/2019/Base%20Budget/Justification%20Book/Missiles.pdf
                      4. Nikolaevich I
                        Nikolaevich I 25 February 2021 20: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        KPU in 2002 cost $ 126,000, in 2019 $ 166.667
                        The rocket cost $ 2002 in 78,000, and $ 2019 in 174,083

                        Inflation, sir? I have heard about one chel who earned $ 80 million on "nonsense" in the 19s of the 1th century ... After 100 years, the "then" dollars "were already estimated" at 10 million? 30 million? dollars of the end of the last century! Once again ... inflation, sir? In Russia, too ... the ruble "arr. 2021" is not "equal" to the ruble "arr. 2001". ! But ... "During a visit to one factory, Gorbachev asks a turner: You won't drink if we double the price of vodka? 2 times? Turner: I will! Gorbachev: But how is that? Turner : You see, I am grinding this part? As it cost half a liter, it will still cost half a liter!
                        Quote: Professor
                        Your labor productivity is 5 times less than that of the bourgeoisie, a weak level of automation ...

                        I did not work in the "defense industry" and there is no fault of mine ... and I will not say about productivity ... "from what and why, and on what occasion ..."!





                        Quote: Professor
                        Out of topic, but beautiful

                        How "out of topic" !? Everything in the topic: numbers, values, more or less ...
                        How to say that the price is high? Yes, in different ways (!): 100.000! ... a million! ... darkness! ... to the fig! ... to the fig and more! You can use numbers ... you can use percentages or words ... but the "result with meaning" is still the same!
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 17: 07
    0
    Quote: Professor
    The next fact is that the super-duper missiles with the seeker are still nat, and the KAZ is already on the combat bourgeois tanks.

    as much as 30 in the EU! oh, not in the EU at any. everything in the USA has equipped ... wassat
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 09: 17
    0
    Not so long ago, information passed that ours did give birth to an image recognition system in a size suitable for installation on such missiles.
    Apparently, there was also a shift with the IR and optical matrices. Now to make a new "smart" GOS is a matter of recent times. Which is already pleasing.
    Although, also not a fact. For example, this research institute talked about the system for a new torpedo 10 years ago, and the torpedo itself has been adopted only now.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 19 February 2021 09: 17
    +6
    Wow, what a pompous and full of pathos article Damansky broke out! And that's just after announcement launching the development program. I can only imagine what will happen when the release begins. Probably, it will look something like this:
    1. A. Privalov
      A. Privalov 19 February 2021 09: 55
      +3
      Well, but seriously, the application for the use of multispectral optoelectronic seeker systems for ATGM is very amusing. Until now, if I'm not mistaken, such devices, due to their high cost and relative bulkiness, were used almost always only on air defense systems. Has there been a revolutionary breakthrough in the miniaturization of the element base of Russian radio electronics?
      Pros mean yes it happened.
      Cons - no, everything is the same.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 19 February 2021 14: 50
        -3
        Until now, if I'm not mistaken, such devices, due to their high cost and relative bulkiness, were used almost always only on air defense systems.
        in a parallel Universe it is possible, as well as in objective reality, for a long time on these products, such as: Spike NLOS / Mini-Spike and other versions of Spike (The Spike-LR rocket has a combined control system, including: a television seeker based on a CCD matrix or a two-channel seeker , in which a television CCD matrix is ​​supplemented with an uncooled thermal imaging type IIR, as well as an inertial system and equipment for a data transmission channel.Bidirectional data transmission can be implemented on the basis of a radio channel or using a fiber-optic communication line.) ... Spike ATGM of various configurations is adopted on armament by 28 countries of the world, including Azerbaijan, Belgium, Chile, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Ecuador, Germany, India, Israel, Italy, Spain, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Peru, Poland, Portugal, South Korea, Romania, Singapore, Slovenia , UK ... wink
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 24 February 2021 17: 39
        0
        Quote: A. Privalov
        Until now, if I'm not mistaken, such devices, due to their high cost and relative bulkiness, were used almost always only on air defense systems.

        Niht ferstein! How to understand this? Decipher, pliz!
  • Evgeny Kirov
    Evgeny Kirov 19 February 2021 09: 19
    -10%
    It would be better to introduce ration cards as soon as possible. Prices are rising, we'll start starving soon
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 19 February 2021 09: 48
      -6
      Quote: Evgeny Kirov
      It would be better to introduce ration cards as soon as possible. Prices are rising, we'll start starving soon

      Have you personally lost a lot of weight?
      1. Evgeny Kirov
        Evgeny Kirov 19 February 2021 10: 04
        -10%
        Due to the collapse of the economy and the crisis, now I cannot afford to travel abroad. Thanks to the bunker grandfather! Thank you for Crimea and Dombas. We are all getting poorer every year. ...
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 19 February 2021 11: 38
          -5
          Quote: Evgeny Kirov
          Due to the collapse of the economy and the crisis, now I cannot afford to travel abroad. Thanks to the bunker grandfather! Thank you for Crimea and Dombas. We are all getting poorer every year. ...

          Well, clearly, the usual whining of the "common man".
          That is, you are not starving yet.
          And abroad, a normal Russian has nothing to do
          1. boris epstein
            boris epstein 20 February 2021 17: 44
            +3
            "Thank you for the Crimea and Dombas" Both the phrase itself and the word "Dombas" immediately give Evgeny Kirov a velikoukra. A Russian and a Russian from Donbass would write exactly DONBASS. And in / in Ukraine it is really time for 90 percent of pensioners to introduce cards.
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 19 February 2021 14: 54
          -5
          Due to the collapse of the economy and the crisis, now I cannot afford to travel abroad.
          what they wanted ..., abroad laughing , now they will introduce social certificates and other statuses and truncated, they sailed with democracy and a new Constitution ... laughing
        3. bk316
          bk316 19 February 2021 18: 25
          +5
          Thank you for Crimea and Dombas.

          You will decide whether there is not enough food or to travel abroad.
          And it’s very interesting how the collapse of the economy affected you personally.
          By the way, after the Crimea, I stopped going on vacation abroad, and not at all because of the mythical collapse. Why carry money to enemies? And he discovered so many interesting places in Russia (although he had visited many places before) that now he does not pull over the hill at all.
        4. Guru
          Guru 20 February 2021 09: 47
          +3
          Thank you for Crimea and Dombas
          Sorry repeat and where is DOMBAS? recourse
    2. iouris
      iouris 19 February 2021 11: 40
      +1
      Let's not start. Let's start eating right.
      1. Narak-zempo
        Narak-zempo 19 February 2021 12: 40
        -3
        This is the correct position, patriotic.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 19 February 2021 14: 58
        -5
        Let's start eating right.
        buckwheat and cold rain (in summer), or melt (in winter) water ...!? The health of the nation, after all, must be tempered! ??? Although it is correct, not patriotic: to use Dutch and Bavarian sausages, as well as Turkish tangerines, right? Only beets and buckwheat ... for Russian patriots !? winked
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 19 February 2021 17: 23
          +2
          Quote: Intruder
          Only beets and buckwheat ..,

          well, yes, even turnips and that are 2,5-3 times more expensive than potatoes - they survived ...
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 19 February 2021 17: 26
            -6
            even turnips are 2,5-3 times more expensive than potatoes
            then we cross out the turnips !? It is for the elite among the people, what is left ??? Nettle and licorice, hmm ... nettle soup and buckwheat main course! Healthy food - is that right !? wink
            1. Mountain shooter
              Mountain shooter 19 February 2021 22: 50
              +4
              Quote: Intruder
              then we cross out the turnips !? It is for the elite among the people, what is left ??? Nettle and licorice, hmm ... nettle soup and buckwheat main course! Healthy eating - all the same!

              I forgot about the hedgehogs ... you won't dry it in the fall, what will you eat in winter? Not tired of carrying nonsense?
        2. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 20 February 2021 18: 07
          0
          Buckwheat will be a little expensive.
          Yachka, millet, cabbage - cheap and cheerful.
  • BAI
    BAI 19 February 2021 11: 20
    +1
    Firstly, we are talking about the ability to engage targets that are outside the limits of visual visibility for the operator (hiding either behind the "screen" of natural elements of the terrain, or in dense urban development).

    The author got it wrong. Those. Shooting nowhere and the rocket itself is looking for the target? The missile must capture the target (at least under the control of the operator - there are no "friend or foe" systems on tanks) and then fly towards it on any trajectory.
    1. Jacket in stock
      Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 11: 55
      +2
      Quote: BAI
      The rocket must lock onto the target ... and then fly towards it on any trajectory.

      Who should?
      Or maybe she will be able to look for a goal herself already in the process?
      Look, "spikes" are able to. Yes, and our "Motives" can.
      When firing at over-the-horizon range and / or from a closed position, the rocket cannot capture the target before the start, by no means.
      1. BAI
        BAI 19 February 2021 11: 59
        +2
        Look, "spikes" are able to.

        Yeah, they can:
        To attack targets outside the line of sight, the Spike NLOS missile system must use third-party target designation. Reconnaissance units, unmanned aerial vehicles, etc. can transmit information about the location of the target.
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 12: 15
          +1
          Quote: BAI
          To attack targets outside the line of sight, the Spike NLOS missile system must use third-party target designation.

          And what is wrong?
          To attack an invisible target, external target designation is always required, even for a spike, even for an ordinary howitzer. You must first know that the enemy exists and is "somewhere there", and only then "somewhere there" to shoot.
          And now the task of the spike, javelin or our future "smart" seeker is to find the target among the surrounding objects on the ground, identify, capture for tracking and issue the correct command to the autopilot where to fly next.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 19 February 2021 15: 00
        +1
        When firing at over-the-horizon range and / or from a closed position, the rocket cannot capture the target before the start, by no means.
        And to enter the optical signature of the detected target into the seeker before the launch of the missile launcher, from an external source of target designation !? Or now, it's so hard to do, programming before launch ... wink
        1. Jacket in stock
          Jacket in stock 19 February 2021 16: 27
          0
          Quote: Intruder
          And to enter the optical signature of the detected target into the seeker before the launch of the missile launcher, from an external source of target designation !? Or now, it's so hard to do, programming before launch ... wink

          Well, this is what external target designation is. The rocket itself does not see the target anyway, only information about it from a third-party source.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 19 February 2021 12: 08
    -1
    Finally catching up with NATO.
  • Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 19 February 2021 12: 46
    +2
    I don't recognize Damantsev. Why are there so few abbreviations and special terms? And the article itself is short, I didn't even have time to fall asleep on it
  • Intruder
    Intruder 19 February 2021 17: 34
    +1
    All-weather self-propelled ATGM "Chrysanthemum-S" equipped with millimeter (operating in the frequency range from 100 to 150 GHz) guidance radars and 9M123-2 ATGM with a radio command guidance system can boast much higher efficiency in this situation.
    , the dream of any PRR, which is like the one in the village now, and passive RTR-complexes are waiting right now ... Yes, and the 2nd generation guidance complex, despite its combination: in automatic mode using radar guidance in a millimeter-wave radio beam and in a semi-automatic mode with the guidance of the missile in the laser beam.
    1. Tamer
      Tamer 19 February 2021 18: 43
      0
      Quote: Intruder
      Yes, and the 2nd generation guidance complex, despite its combination: in automatic mode with the use of radar guidance in a millimeter-wave radio beam and in a semi-automatic mode with missile guidance in a laser beam.

      and for different guidance different missiles, emnip.
  • vel1163
    vel1163 20 February 2021 00: 16
    +1
    Tired of reading about the announced. You just hear: Russia will have the best aircraft carrier, the Americans are in a panic! Russia will fly to Mars! Etc. Let's write about what we have already done. And it is better that it was in the series.
    1. dauria
      dauria 20 February 2021 02: 37
      +2
      Let's write about what we have already done


      Articles are needed every day - the creators of the site are people too and want to eat. And weapons are sometimes not updated for decades, and new principles do not grow on the branches, the television seeker is already half a century. IR and radar too.
      So they pour from empty to empty ...
      In the USSR, the journal "Foreign Military Review" was published once a month. And then the themes were repeated. And we didn’t even dreamed of knowing what was “done with us”.
  • Runway
    Runway 20 February 2021 03: 13
    +2
    The author is a generator of new "terms".
    "Operational-tactical capabilities" according to A. Damantsev, this is available - TTX.
    ATGM is a weapon of the battlefield and it is doubtful that the capabilities of MFA and ASP are drawn to it "by the ears".
  • riwas
    riwas 20 February 2021 06: 20
    +1
    Shooting ATGM from closed positions and using expensive seeker.
    It may be more expedient to use small shock UAVs launched from ground-based installations (using a rocket booster). So one UAV, equipped with target detectors (infrared sensor + MMV radar sensor), a ballistic computer and cumulative bombs with an air brake, flying at a relatively high speed and low altitude, is capable of destroying several tanks.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 20 February 2021 10: 16
      0
      Everything has already been invented in such systems. And it is shown in small conflicts ........ the use of 3rd generation ATGMs, drones-kamikaze, strike UAVs and reconnaissance for the correction and highlighting of artillery ammunition. No need to reinvent the wheel
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 20 February 2021 10: 14
    +2
    Apparently, we have accumulated competencies in components ... matrices and processors.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 20 February 2021 12: 29
    +3
    Quote: Evgeny Kirov
    It would be better to introduce ration cards as soon as possible. Prices are rising, we'll start starving soon

    What kind of Zionist nonsense?
    Why starve, go to work.
  • Svidetel 45
    Svidetel 45 20 February 2021 13: 42
    +1
    We must have a lot of good and different weapons for all occasions of life against our "partners", otherwise we will not see luck. Unfortunately, since the times of the ancient world, the slogan "if you want peace. Prepare for war" is relevant to this day.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 20 February 2021 21: 06
    0
    Damantsev is immediately evident by the syllable.
    In general, an attempt to close the gap with the same javelins.
    True, the state of microelectronics speaks for the fact that this path will be long and thorny.
    Well, and the most important thing is that NATO's tanks in the European theater are not the main striking means!
    Their main striking force is aviation and drones!
  • Fat
    Fat 21 February 2021 12: 39
    +1
    That's it, a kapets increase in pension, but I never regret it.
  • Bogatyrev
    Bogatyrev 21 February 2021 22: 40
    0
    Well, just a revolution in ATGM. As if Spike was not there)))