"We are waiting for the customer's decision": "Yantar" offered to complete the construction of the sixth frigate of Project 11356

Kaliningrad shipyard "Yantar" does not exclude the option of construction for the Russian fleet another frigate of Project 11356, the hull of which is "mothballed" at the plant. This was announced by the general director of the plant Ilya Samarin.

According to the general director, the hull of the sixth frigate of Project 11356, which was not completed for the Russian Navy due to the lack of a power plant, has been in a "mothballed" state for five years at Yantar. The hull is in good condition, everything is available for the construction of the ship, except for the engine and the decision of the Ministry of Defense on completion.

11356 is a very good ship, we offer it to the Ministry of Defense, we have property for it, we have everything except the engine. If the issue with the power plant is resolved, it definitely needs to be completed, the price will be favorable for both parties. While we are waiting for the final decision of the customer

- leads RIA News words of Samarin.

At the same time, he does not exclude that the Indians will take the hull of the sixth frigate for the construction of another ship, taking into account the construction of a series of frigates of Project 11356.

Recall that initially the Ministry of Defense ordered Yantar a series of six frigates of Project 11356, but only three were built and handed over to the customer (Admiral Grigorovich, Admiral Essen and Admiral Makarov), which managed to receive power plants made in Ukraine before the breakdown of relations in 2014 year. Due to the lack of propulsion, the construction of three frigates was stuck in the hull phase.

In 2018, it became known that two of the remaining three hulls will go to the construction of Project 11356 frigates for the Indian fleet. According to the contract, two ships are being built by Russia, two more are being built by the Indians at their shipyards.

Thus, of the six laid buildings, three have been completed, two are being completed, and the fate of one has not yet been decided.

Comments

[Siberian 66]

They would give it to India. We need ships of project 22350 much more, and then 22350M.

[Machito]

Quote: Siberian 66

They would give it to India. We need ships of project 22350 much more, and then 22350M.

Let them take it. The state will not become poorer. (C) Ivan Vasilievich changes his profession.

[smart ass]

All the more friendly to us India))))

[venik]

Quote: Sibiryak 66

They would give it to India. We need ships of project 22350 much more, and then 22350M.

=========

"What are you, royal muzzle, squandering state land ?! "

(feature film "Ivan Vasilievich changes his profession")

[Vladimir Mashkov]

There is a feeling that this frigate will soon be completed.

[Shadow041]

They are being built too slowly, and the Black Sea Fleet is experiencing a shortage of warships.

[yehat2]

there are not enough ships at the World Cup.
even 11356 project is in demand

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: yehat2

there are not enough ships at the World Cup. even 11356 project is in demand

And I think so, but alas (!), opinions prevail, -

Quote: Sibiryak 66

They would give it to India. We need ships of project 22350 much more, and then 22350M.

or

Quote: Bearded

Let them take it.

or

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

The Ministry of Defense is weighing whether or not this ship is needed, or rather a frigate.

... ?! But alas it doesn't seem (!). ...
last week, I asked Klimov a question to his article (about 705 project), in the spirit, - "why the Navy, will not order from the USC for the fleet the project of MCSNS (according to the technical assignment, something between:" Barakuda "," Kedr "or RTMK, for VI and, accordingly, for ?!, Considering how expensive "Ash-M", taking into account the lack of SSNS ") ?! and received an answer that most of admirals interested much more, the (!), what places they can be provided in USC upon retirement, and not by the state of the fleet !!!
and it didn't feel much sad (!) , but much more it is clear why this is happening !!!... The same with large NK (1 rank) !!!
It seems that today's leadership Navy, quite satisfied with the pace of fleet renewal ? !!... Objective observation of "at this rate"which do not yet exceed commissioning maximum one fr. 22350, per year (!!), everyone is happy !!!... So myself fleet development option No. 1 (on which, unfortunately, the Navy is walking) ... ...
And from this point of view, how only building 11356 R / M, - it seems really does not make sense in the completion, from the word - at all !!... BUT (!!!)
If you try look at this problem more complex (!)and more comprehensively, as common root problems surface shipbuilding of the Navy (!), , then it is possible and option number 2 (!!), from whose point of view, everything will look a little different ? !!
Let's compare examples of options # 1 (how is it going so far) and option # 2 (as I would like), but probably not everyone needs ? !! and then compare the results ? !!
Under option number 2, I would still consider the possibility (necessity !!), the creation of a center for marine gas turbine engine building, and the production of gearboxes for them (primarily "analogue with old gas turbine engines DT-59, D-090, and DK-59"), of which almost all the power plants of the Soviet BNK consist "main working projects"like 1155, 1135, and 11540 (!!)... and it must be a different enterprise than the current link between UEC-Saturn and PAO Zvezda !!! ... These have already shown that the speed of creating one power plant for 22350 (!)as unit per YEAR (!) - already huge pressure, and now let's add in two years, the need for parallel creation "the second type of power plant from the same M-90FR and a different gearbox" and possibly M-70FRU-r .... Yes, plus gearbox 6 RP for 20386 (!!)... Speed ​​(according to option number 1), as we understand the above will not become (!), and during this time they will freeze without a power plant, almost ALL remaining 1155 (6-7 units), "Varyag" 1164, and the last EM-956 (at least ten ships !! freezes without a power plant, and with "Hawks 11540" and two more !!, over the 10 years that the fleet can receive a dozen 22350 and possibly one 20386 !!!)
But the creation of the center - marine gas turbine engine building, and production of gearboxes for them (according to option number 2), for the same ten years it will allow us:
- instead of writing off 1155, to carry out them ALL modernization in volumes not less "Marshal Shaposhnikov" !!!, and extend their service life by an average of 10-12 years !!! it's ONE (!)
- add to them a pair of 11540 (their power plant practically consists of the same turbines, just in their somewhat deformed form as in 1135, and differs more only in the gear transmission)
- the ability, in parallel with the 22350 series at the North shipyard, to drive a series of updated 11356 R / M (perhaps by strengthening them at least 2 * 4 PU "Uranus" or the second UKSK) ....
And all this without knocking down the speed of "Saturn with a Star" (according to programs 22350 and 22350M) !!!

Quote: aszzz888

We wait.

Well as option number 3For "resurrection of the serial construction of Petrels" option can be considered them with a power plant with partial electromotion which now they want to work through 6РП and two М90ФР for 20386 (!).... But alas, this option is worse than the second !!!
- firstly the second option "saves with himself" and 1155 and 11356 (!)without distracting the Saturn-Star link (by programs 22350)
- plus the faster development of such a high-tech industry as marine gas turbine engine building and a lot of jobs !!!
- plus a couple "Hawks" 11540...
That is, with the further development of shipbuilding according to OPTION No. 1 (how it goes!) After ten years, The Navy will receive 10-11 BNK of the first rank by writing off at least 12 !!!, and the only one in browed summaries will true percentage fleet renewal (after all, there are 10 new ships and minus 12 old ones !!!)
But OPTION # 2 (!), In addition to the development of high-tech production, will complement (at least will not distract the power of the "Saturn-Star"), will create jobs (!) from the word - "many", and will keep next to ten new (under construction 22350), a dozen more ships: about 7 1155, a pair of "Yastrebov-11540", and new "Storms 11356R / M "... which the plant" Yantar "builds in the presence of a power plant for 3-4 years, not ten years per unit !!!
Worth it or not ? !!

[TerraSandera]

The harsh truth of life, about "sanctions don't work." Apparently the Indians need ships more, since we almost give them + technologies, and of course "we build in India" or whatever their program is called. We don't need jobs.

[Insurgent]

Quote: TerraSandera

Harsh truth of life about "sanctions don't work"

This is real - "the harsh truth of life", originating from the unified USSR, the times when the entire economy of the country was a single mechanism.

Therefore, there is no need to compare Western sanctions, which are really easier for Russia to overcome, and such a "blow in the gut" ...
But nothing ... everything will settle down The Russian Federation will have its own production of turbines.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Insurgent

But nothing ... Everything will be settled. There will be its own production of turbines on the territory of the Russian Federation

Yes already ... "Saturn" collects turbines. But for frigates of this series? If it was decided not to extend the series, then it is not worth developing a power plant for it. Will not pay off.

[Insurgent]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Yes already ... "Saturn" collects turbines.

So even more so!

Quote: Mountain Shooter

But for frigates of this series? If it was decided not to extend the series, then it is not worth developing a power plant for it. Will not pay off.

Well, if the MO is guided by this, without the influence of other reasons, then yes ...

[donavi49]

Well, if the MO is guided by this, without the influence of other reasons, then yes ...

Gas-gas turbine assembly will not work. That is, it is necessary to start R&D and R&D on the topic of replacing the power plant from the existing ones. The most logical - unification with 22350 - diesel-gas turbine. But here the ship is not ready - it needs to be thoroughly altered. This is not only about modifying the compartments, but also the supply lines, recalculating the exhaust, for example (otherwise it will be like 20380 before the rework - it will burn once a month - due to the accumulation of soot). In general, there will actually be 80-100 million dollars worth of work. And here the question of the necessity of all this arises.

Optimal - to give India and make 22350 with increased missile armament ourselves.

[Nazar]

donavi49 - and with 22350 not everything is "smooth" - there is a problem with gearboxes, they are produced extremely slowly (that is, not enough). and if they still seriously undertake to build 386 freaks, then the 350s may freeze altogether, and precisely because of the gearbox.

[bayard]

Quote: donavi49

Optimal - to give India and make 22350 with increased missile armament ourselves.

Namely - to offer her to complete this building and another one at their shipyards ("we are building in India"). That is, in addition to the already ordered 4 frigates, to offer two more. And the proceeds from the export duty should be directed to the development of domestic ship engine building and gearboxes.

[lelik613]

Are you talking about the export tax revenue? This leg, who needs a leg. Don't touch the sacred!

[Shadow041]

GEMs that are on 11356 are planning to be installed on new landing ships, so the GEM will have to be built anyway.

[Dart2027]

Quote: TerraSandera

The harsh truth of life, about "sanctions don't work."

There is another power plant, which is not used anywhere else. Yes, it can be done, but it will be a strong and expensive hemorrhoid.

[maiman61]

You can buy a power plant in China, they definitely have it! We will end up with a warship, and we will not waste money and time.

[Dart2027]

Quote: maiman61

You can buy a power plant in China, they definitely have it!

Their frigates go with other power plants.

[Ru_Na]

It would be nice to finish building and transfer to the Black Sea Fleet, the first three frigates are driven both in the tail and in the mane, and in case of failure one should have a ship in reserve.

[bayard]

There are no engines for it, therefore only a foreign customer with the purchase of a power plant in Ukraine by himself. And this frigate is weak and ineffective. It would be better (if Rybinsk power plants go serially and rhythmically) to load Kaliningrad shipyards with orders for 22350M, because the BOD of project 1155 was previously built there and the technical capabilities allow it.
And of course, the fleet needs to continue the series of 20385 corvettes.

[Nemchinov Vl]

Quote: bayard

And this frigate is weak and ineffective.

Greetings, dear - Vitaly !! , but I have several objections ... For example, under the condition (described by me in the answer above / earlier), through creation, -

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

...center - marine gas turbine engine building, and the production of gearboxes for them

the fleet will not only keep in service 1155, a pair of 11540, but also give "a second life Petrels - 11356 R / M"and their potential, adding even 2 to 4 launchers "Uran-U", (and modernization TA for the use of "Waterfall" and torpedoes UGST) increases by one and a half times or even two !!!, at not the greatest cost !!!
Let us also recall that the cost of construction in 2012-2013, one 11356 R / M, was approximately 18-19 billion and it was built in a maximum of 3,5-4 years each (!), and compare with the cost of 22350 (!), already then about 30 billionsystem. (and today about 35 billion.), and corvette 20380 (toothless but expensive !!),- then 17 billion ?! А today it already more than 23 billion !!!
So maybe for such a cost, the fleet is preferable all the same "Petrels" build ?!

Quote: bayard

Better (if Rybinsk power plants will run serially and rhythmically)

it's certainly better, but ... , until - "serially and rhythmically" only go verbiage relational plans of Rakhmanov & Co ... and we are watching, -

Quote: bayard

load the Kaliningrad shipyards with orders for 22350M, because before they built the BOD of project 1155 ..

as we can see, it will not work out in the near future, again due to "the rate of birth of GEM to them" (one per year maximum) ... And because of work on the 6-RP (for 20386), in the near future, she CANNOT GROW ....

Quote: bayard

And of course continue the series of corvettes 20385 , such ships ...

and then I'm sorry but ... OH certainly better than 20380 (this frank one is sabotage (!) according to the criteria of price / combat capabilities), but the trouble is that 20385 is even more expensive ... by 3-4 billion ... for every (!!)...
When focusing (a year or two !!) attention to 12SD-500 (8000 hp each, and making "quadruplets similar to GEM 20385"), the fleet will receive a new power plant, and can order a series of corvettes 11664 on it, which at a price equal to (or less) One (!), but with two UKSK, and lower costs for radarcomplexes and "Shtile-1" instead of "Reduta", will receive a much more adequate ship for OVR in BMZ, - replacing both "MPK" Albatros "and MRK / RK, in "one person" (as the saying goes)...

[bayard]

Greetings Vladimir!
The whole problem is in the engines - THEY ARE NOT.
The domestic industry will sway for at least several more years, because until 2014 there were no competencies in the Russian Federation for ship power plants.
Therefore, if in the near future "Zorya-Mashproekt", together with the adjacent territories, does not return to the United State, then we can rely only on the power plant for 22350 (diesel-gas turbine), 20380 (diesel-diesel), promising for SD-500 (power is promised, in fact, 10 l / s) for the updated 000, and for the promising gas turbine for 20385M on the M-22350FR and M-90FRU.
And at first there will be few such units. All of them are already scheduled ahead of time for the ships under construction that are waiting for them on the stocks ... In such conditions, they will adapt one of these power plants for the already formed hull 11356 ... it is irrational, because it will require alterations in the hull itself, and will delay the commissioning of a more perfect ship ...
It is much more rational to find a buyer for this building (India, Vietnam, Iran), who can independently order a power plant in Ukraine, for completion. You can even offer a couple, or a whole series of 11356, if you wish - such frigates are built quickly, the ship is proven, in India there will be as many as 10 such frigates.
But for yourself, concentrate on the main thing. And serial. That is, the same type.
Had our shipbuilders now had the power plant, the frigates of project 22350 would also be built in 4 - 5 years maximum, because serial production leads to a reduction in costs and construction time. Nothing, except for the absence of a power plant, today does not hold back the pace of building these ships.
And you only need to build them and the following 22350M.
And for the Black Sea Fleet - too.

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

corvette 20380 (toothless, but expensive !!), - then 17 billion? !!! And today it is already more than 23 billion !!!
So maybe for such a cost, it is preferable for the fleet to build "Petrel" all the same? !!!

For 11356 there is no power plant. And it is not expected.
But for 20380 and 20385 - there are Kolomna diesel engines. And when the SD-500 appears, the 20385 will get rid of chronic stroke failure.
Regarding the price and line-up, here I completely agree with Klimov and Timokhin - the radar complex for the corvette needs a simpler one. 8 PLUR for the near zone is quite enough for him, in conjunction with the "Packet-NK" torpedoes and a submarine helicopter.
It is possible to increase the ammunition load of the KR in the UKSK only by abandoning the hangar ... but the naval authorities said that the helicopter is needed for permanent basing ... then so be it. How many have already been built, and a fresh order for another 10 pieces. both types. So it's too late to rush around and you need to build similar ones. For the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet for an ASW in the near zone, a lower VI is undesirable. And it is not possible by the ball.
And regarding the desirability of the "PLO frigate" in VI 3500 - 4000 tons, I have already expressed myself before and have not changed my opinion about the necessity ... But not today ... but in the bright future, when the possibilities (including technical) we will be allowed. When there will be a line of power plants to choose from, and the acuteness of the issue of the lack of ships of the main classes will be eliminated.

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

as we can see, it will not work out in the near future, again because of the "rate of birth of the power plant for them" (one per year maximum) ... And because of the work on the 6-RP gearbox (for 20386), in the near future, she CAN'T GROW ....

Now four 22350 power plants are waiting on the stocks, on one they are already being installed afloat, on the other they received the first "half", two more are being prepared for laying ...
So there will be a power plant for them, and a gearbox. And at a rate of at least 2 sets per year (otherwise a blood clot at the shipyard), though when they reach the design rates.
But they can also love - it's easy for us.
For - irresponsibility.

Quote: Vl Nemchinov

When focusing (a year or two !!) attention on the 12SD-500 (8000 hp each, and creating from them "fours similar to the power plant 20385"), the fleet will receive a new power plant, and can order a series of corvettes 11664 on it, which, when price equal (or less) 20385 (!), but with two UKSK, and lower costs for RL Complexes and "Shtile-1" instead of "Reduta

I know your love for this project, but no one will go for it ... unless for Vietnam ...
Firstly, for the purpose of unification and uniformity, corvettes will be built only on projects 20380 and 20385. For the Black Sea and the Baltic, it is possible to lay a lightweight PLO corvette based on the elongated Karakurt (again, unification and uniformity).
The Redoubt was adopted as a shipborne air defense system, and it will now be installed on all ships - for the sake of unification and production cost reduction due to serial production.
But the Zaslon radar was clearly overkill - both in price and in "quality" (dampness of the project).
So in the situation, when heavy corvettes go to the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet, and light (promising, based on the elongated Karakurt) to the Red Banner Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet, everything is closed for BMZ ships. Moreover, for the extended "Karakurt" VI 1300 - 1500 tons, the power plant from 20380 is quite suitable - low-speed (and therefore less noisy) diesel engines will allow it to develop about 30 knots, which means that nothing fundamentally new is required to implement these projects.

And the unfinished building 11356 can be wished for a good foreign customer and a long successful service with the future owner.
Today is the only way.

[aszzz888]

One thing is clear what is needed

the decision of the Ministry of Defense to complete the construction.

We wait.

[Stirbjorn]

The hull is in good condition, everything is available for the construction of the ship, except for the engine and the decision of the Ministry of Defense on completion.

So, without an engine, a ship is not a ship, and the decision of the Ministry of Defense will not help here. And for one ship, of course, no one will design the engine - so one option, sell, ideally with completion, like the first two

[Crimean partisan 1974]

So, without an engine, a ship is not a ship, .... you are mistaken ... just the Ministry of Defense weighs whether this ship is needed or not, or rather a frigate ... because engines are not a problem ... at the moment, corvettes, like pies off the stocks, are coming down in engines no tension. that is, combat cabotage is ensured ... and the theme of the dual-use icebreaker fleet is moving forward by leaps and bounds ... that's why the question is .... is a frigate needed when the corvettes fulfill the frigate's tasks, and in an ice situation the frigate will depend on the icebreaker anyway. ..

[Piramidon]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

.because engines are not a problem ...

It is for this series of ships that it is a big problem. They just don't exist.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

It is for this series of ships that it is a big problem. They simply do not exist ....... yes, do not fence in nonsense, everything is there, the Ministry of Defense has no goals, because they are busy with other more pressing issues

[Piramidon]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

do not fence nonsense

And without rudeness, you can not answer?

[Crimean partisan 1974]

And without rudeness, you can not answer? ...... is this rudeness "do not fence nonsense" when this is really so with your thoughts set out in the text .... neither you nor I have the right to decide what is needed for the country's defense, this is decided by the Ministry of Defense , along the way, I clearly explained

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

It is for this series of ships that it is a big problem. They just do not exist ....... yes, do not fence nonsense, everything is there

We do not have one for 11356 GTE. There is a GTE only for 22350, and all the efforts of Saturn and its subcontractors are now concentrated on their production.

And for the 11356 GTE, most likely, there will be no - because for a single ship, its development and production will be too expensive and time-consuming. And most importantly, by the time these gas turbine engines are ready, 11356 will become completely obsolete. They were built only because it was a project worked out by the Indians, which could be quickly built and quickly put into operation (without many years of fiddling with the Polyment-Redoubt) to replace the "floating museum" of the Black Sea Fleet surface ships.

Putting a non-native power plant on the sixth 11356 will again tighten the construction with alterations of the already finished building. As a result, you will get a unique non-serial ship.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

to get a unique non-serial ship ..... so the Ministry of Defense thinks whether it is necessary or not ... and the engine is not a problem

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

but the engine is not a problem

This is exactly the problem. Because today there is only a combined diesel-gas turbine power plant for 22350. And in 11356, both the economy and full speed are provided by gas turbines. This means that a new turbine, a new gearbox and a new control system are needed. And then - tests of the complete set. In short, the terms of issue of the serial GTE for 11356 will be the same as for 22350.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

In short, the terms for issuing a serial GTE for 11356 will be the same as for 22350 .... well, so what is the boron cheese. The Ministry of Defense is scratching a turnip, whether it is necessary or not, as it turned out, the TFR

[ZEMCH]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

to get a unique non-serial ship ..... so the Ministry of Defense thinks whether it is necessary or not ... and the engine is not a problem

The engines there are of the previous generation, it makes no sense to design and build "yesterday", technologies have gone ahead, the M90 ​​is smaller and more powerful than the DK59, the power of the M90 ​​is 27500 hp. The main problem with gearboxes is that there is nowhere to do
The SKR gas turbine power plant of project 11356 includes two M7K units, each of which consists of one DO63 main gas turbine and one DK59 afterburner. Propulsion engines with a capacity of 6000 hp. mounted on suspended platforms. Afterburners with a capacity of 18 hp connected to shaft lines through tire-pneumatic couplings. All turbines have gas reverse. An innovation was the main gear attachment, which allows working on both shafts for both main engines and for each engine separately.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

An innovation was the marching gear attachment, which allows working on both shafts for both the marching engines and for each engine separately ... this innovation has long been implemented on the destroyers of the 956 series, which is stupid, especially since the GTZA system on all nuclear submarines from pocon time

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Alexey RA

We do not have one for 11356 GTE. There is a GTE only for 22350, and all the efforts of Saturn and its subcontractors are now concentrated on their production.

why do you think the 22350 is fundamentally different from the 11356, 1155, 1135 and 1164 engines? the differences are not so dramatic

[bk0010]

Quote: vladimir1155

why do you think the 22350 is fundamentally different from the 11356, 1155, 1135 and 1164 engines? the differences are not so dramatic

The Moskvich engine was also not radically different from the Zhiguli engine. Just different.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: bk0010

The Moskvich engine was also not radically different from the Zhiguli engine. Just different.

in good hands, you can put an engine from a Muscovite on a Zhiguli ... didn't you know? although it will not work from Kamaz, from Kamaz my good friend put a pipe on the Zhigul ... even the old Pytlivy was equipped with an old engine from 3000B ...

[bk0010]

Quote: vladimir1155

in good hands, you can put an engine from a Muscovite on a Zhiguli ... didn't you know?

No

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: bk0010

No

Well, of course you haven't seen it, and this is what the craftsmen do in garages, but you haven't heard for an hour about the Volga with engines from a seagull? instead of 75 hp put 150 hp? you have not seen them, but they are! But you are smarter than the director of Kaliningrad Amber and the director of Rybinsk Saturn, because they claim that the new Rybinsk engine will fit on 11356 ... but you certainly know better than them, you read somewhere that there are no engines

[bk0010]

Quote: vladimir1155

Have you heard for an hour about the Volga with engines from a seagull? instead of 75 hp put 150 hp?

I heard about the KGB Volga, of course. That's just there it was great to change everything (for simple reasons, such an engine did not fit into the Volga).

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: bk0010

for a simple reason, such an engine did not fit into the Volga).

just got in, so that no one would guess ...

[ZEMCH]

Quote: vladimir1155

why do you think the 22350 is fundamentally different from the 11356, 1155, 1135 and 1164 engines? the differences are not so dramatic

The power plant 1135 and 1155 are different, the engines are different, at 1164 the power plant is generally radically different from the others, there is also a steam turbine from a recovery boiler working in conjunction with cruise GTEs and 4 afterburners, 2 per shaft.
U 22350 diesel-gas turbine unit

[Vladimir1155]

I know this, but I don't see any problems, they are similar in terms of weight, size and power characteristics, 22350 engines will fit perfectly into the 11356 case, but nothing else is required

https://flotprom.ru/2018/%D0%9E%D0%B4%D0%BA2/
"In April 2017, the company demonstrated a sample of the M90FR unit with a capacity of 20,2 MW. The declared efficiency of the turbine was 36% against 32% for the Ukrainian analogue.

Russian gas turbine engines are planned to equip Project 1164 missile cruisers, Project 1155 large anti-submarine ships, Project 22350 and 22350M frigates, Project 11356 patrol ships, Project 20386 corvettes, Project 22800 small missile ships, Project 1241 missile boats, and Project 12322 air cushion landing ships , code "Zubr", and project 12061, code "Murena". "

[ZEMCH]

Quote: vladimir1155

I know this, but I don't see any problems, they are similar in terms of weight, size and power characteristics, 22350 engines will fit perfectly into the 11356 case, but nothing else is required

just in terms of mass and dimensions, they are not suitable, for 1155, 1135 (6), 1164, etc., there are GTEs of the 3rd generation, M90 (FR) in terms of mass dimensions are closer to march DO63, but the most global problem is gearboxes, they produced "Zorya-Mashproekt" and now the industry will not master their production, because they are outdated

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: ZEMCH

a global problem - gearboxes, they were produced by "Zorya-Mashproekt"

why do you think so? if there is a new gas turbine engine, then a gearbox kit also comes with it, so that as the engines are replaced with 1155 1164, they will be replaced along with gearboxes, and by the way they will be unified with new frigates ... just like replacing the engine on Zhiguli with a Renault engine, the gearbox will also have to put from Renault ....

[ZEMCH]

Quote: vladimir1155

why do you think so?

))) my specialty! The gearbox for 22350 was not designed by Zvezda, but by Zorya-Mashproekt! And they did it for the first buildings, we didn't even have a test bench. We had to do everything from scratch, both the stand and the production of the gearbox, for a clean GTU now there is no one to produce a gearbox
Under the USSR, all the gearboxes for the GTE were made by YuTZ (the former name of Zori). The gearboxes are very difficult to manufacture, the plant has unique equipment that is not available in Russia. With a gearbox, the difficulty is that from 13000 revolutions it is necessary to work up to 300 and, most importantly, you cannot install an engine of higher power, you need to change the gearbox. It seems that according to the GEM scheme, 1135 and 1155 are the same, but engines of different power and different gearboxes.

[Vladimir1155]

the gearbox is not a complicated product, well worked out 100 years ago, just gears, Casting of not the most expensive steel, cutting, heat treatment, assembly ... any large machine-building enterprise will master it, in the 13th workshop of the Izhora plant they used to make gears 3 meters in diameter

[ZEMCH]

Quote: vladimir1155

the gearbox is not a complicated product, well worked out 100 years ago, just gears, Casting of not the most expensive steel, cutting, heat treatment, assembly ... any large machine-building enterprise will master it, in the 13th workshop of the Izhora plant they used to make gears 3 meters in diameter

The furnace in Nikolaev for the gears of the planetary reducer was and remains the only one, plus a few more technical processes not mastered by other industries, not everything is so simple. Since 2003, I have been dealing with these issues, Zvezda's competence in diesel reverse gears, planetary vehicles were made only in Nikolaev

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: ZEMCH

Furnace in Nikolaev for gears

the oven is such a box made of lined bricks, with a lid where heating sources, such as spirals, are located, I remember sleeping repeatedly during working hours on this oven, the size seems to be 6x6 meters, I don't see anything complicated, only money for it and power supply, maybe in Izhora's 13 workshop it even survived ... I also saw it in the instrumental, there is a furnace in liquid, complex heat treatment processes ..... what are these competencies? you just need to work,

and the planetary gear, of course, requires a little more accuracy, the requirements for tolerances and landings, but in principle it is not difficult, so you better try to start the engine in winter and not not start .... diesel is what is difficult!

[ZEMCH]

Plyusanul, about a diesel engine, that's for sure, he himself left a dozen years in the north, the cars did not turn off the engines, if they stalled, then start only with ether and a blowtorch)))
I'll just say about the current production, until the customer wants a purely gas turbine installation, they will not move around the planetary systems and their production)))
I never saw CODAG on 22350, from what I saw CODOG, this is about the joint operation of a diesel engine and a gas turbine engine on one shaft)))

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

because the engines are not a problem ... at the moment the corvettes are coming off the stocks like pies and there is no tension in the engines.

You are mistaken, the engines are a problem, because, as they wrote below, they are not there! And you can't put an engine from a corvette on a frigate. And why are you writing about icebreakers if the frigates of this project serve on the Black Sea Fleet ?!

[Crimean partisan 1974]

if the frigates of this project serve on the Black Sea Fleet?! .... sometimes the Kerch Strait freezes and with it the fairway to the Don and Kuban (such rivers flow into Azov) ... so it's not me who is weighing it. and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is needed or not needed ... if I say I served in the Soviet Navy on the PSK and I do not understand certain terms such as a corvette frigate, the terms small missile boat, destroyer, BOD, cruiser were clear to me ... what after in the Russian Federation appeared little understood for me, nevertheless, I evaluate the corvette as a missile boat-cabotage, I don’t know the frigate. perhaps it can be defined as a destroyer, if so. then it's too fat for cabotage

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Crimean partisan 1974

I don't know the frigate.

this is a patrol ship in the Soviet style 1135

[Crimean partisan 1974]

this is a patrol ship in the Soviet 1135 ... well, then everything fell into place .... why do we need cabotage if corvettes that go like cakes with tasks cope with tasks .... and the suckers will pass by. with suckers and bribes are smooth

[Jacket in stock]

You can also buy engines from Indians or Chinese.
As in the USSR, the sanction was bought.
Formally, it can be issued as used, for example.

Although, in fact, it is not clear why he, too, was not married to the Hindus along with others.

[donavi49]

You can't outbid the Chinese. In the sense that the QC-280 is also not suitable without serious additions. This is a different turbine, from a different Zori family. Although it is possible to make a gas-gas turbine installation, this frigate will fly 50 knots with it and no one needs it. Roughly speaking, 2 QC-280 = power plant 11356. But one turbine for the march, one for the afterburner will not be allowed, because this is a warship and duplication is needed. The Chinese have no others in the series yet.

Hindus won't sell. Not because they are multi-vector. And because they depend on the Dawns. They have the main caliber of the fleet under construction on the Zora hanging.

[Jacket in stock]

Quote: donavi49

Hindus won't sell. Not because they are multi-vector. But because they depend on the Dawns

With a strong desire, they could. Yes, even under the guise of spare parts. Only it is necessary to stimulate.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Jacket in stock

With a strong desire, they could. Yes, even under the guise of spare parts. Only it is necessary to stimulate.

We do not have so much money to compensate the Indians for the failure of the national shipbuilding program and the fine for violating the terms of the contract (and Ukraine is good at fines).
It is easier to sell them the third 11356 and invest the proceeds in the 22350 program. In terms of time, the revision of 11356 and the construction of 22350 will come out about the same.

Quote: Jacket in stock

Yes, even under the guise of spare parts.

So they will not beat on the passport. ©
In the sense that the formalities are of no interest to anyone, and the source of the appearance of the gas turbine engine for 11356 will be revealed very quickly.

[DrEng527]

Quote: Alexey RA

and the source of the appearance of the GTE for 11356 will be revealed very quickly.

So what? beneficiaries quickly fled abroad of this "superpower"

[Shadow041]

The Russian Federation can also slap India. Without air defense missile systems and anti-ship missiles from the Russian Federation, the entire program of building a fleet in India will either be covered or significantly more expensive, since you will have to buy Western systems, and everything is tied to the United States, they just won't give anything, this is not the Russian Federation, they give something will expose the Indians to political demands and not the fact that the Indians will like them

[yehat2]

I do not understand the class terminology at all.
now the frigates are produced in size like light cruisers of the ww2 times
destroyer Arlie Burke is larger than half of ww2 heavy cruisers
the cruiser Orlan is generally larger than Yamato.
How are they assigned a class?
And if earlier a corvette was called what is now called a boat or a sloop,
what is a boat now ???

[bayard]

Quote: yehat2

what is a boat now ???

Destroyer of RYAV times.
In any case, in terms of displacement.

[Vladimir1155]

when it became clear that all the battleships were a mistake (we needed single-turret gunboats of large caliber 3000 tons, battleships were a mistake (they all sank or turned out to be useless), then the governments stopped ordering them, but the sawmills of all countries began to increase the tonnage of destroyers in order to deceive the government and drag through a huge unnecessary surface ship A living example is the aircraft-carrying cruisers of the USSR, useless and costly, we now have one overgrown Peter and a couple under repair Kuzya and Nakhimov in our ranks.If Petya and Nakhimov can play the role of a corvette-frigate PLO with huge self-defense (leader of corvettes of frigates PLO), then Kuzya turned out to be generally useless, because he had no tasks and no combat protection.

[yehat2]

but why drag such ships through to the union?
Could have smuggled several BODs instead of him - they certainly would not be superfluous

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: yehat2

Could have smuggled several BODs instead of him - they certainly would not be superfluous

I fully support, but the pride and snobbery of Gorshkov and the appetites of the ship industry contradict logic, The more unique the ships, the easier it is to cut, steal money, and serial ships have a certain budget and its growth may raise questions from the inspectors. KGB, KRU of the Ministry of Finance and the People's Control Committee, the Prosecutor's Office, the Central Committee of the CPSU

[bk0010]

Quote: yehat2

Could have smuggled several BODs instead of him - they certainly would not be superfluous

1144 is the BOD. It was built as an anti-submarine, which can be where necessary, as much as necessary and can stand up for itself (1155 was supposed to be covered by the destroyer 956 of the project, for example). It turned out what happened.

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: bk0010

1144 is the BOD

I thought about the oceans, and now the Barents Sea is defenseless, I'm not talking about Kamchatka at all ... just all this is sad

[Castro Ruiz]

Sama idea dostroiki vreditelstvo.
Long ago nado bilo vse 3 a ne 2 IN prodat.

[Vladimir1155]

if the Indians do not take it, then it is advisable to finish building, although the nuclear submarine is more important, but the frigates will also be useful for the submarine submarine base

[Ivanchester]

Vladimir, but how to finish building it if there is no power plant and will not be?
And you are not confused by the fact that three already built 11356 serve in the Black Sea Fleet, where the nuclear submarine is not observed?

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: Ivanchester

Are you not embarrassed by the fact that three already built 11356 serve in the Black Sea Fleet, where the nuclear submarine is not observed?

confuses, I think this is a mistake = a crime, a betrayal of the interests of the Russian Federation

[yehat2]

Quote: vladimir1155

appetites of the Sudprom

let's say Gorshkov byaka, although it's hard for me to believe
but what does it matter to the court industry what to do? The main thing for them is to get the shaft.
And the larger the series, the fewer problems.
they do not give up the piece giants

[Vladimir1155]

Quote: yehat2

And the larger the series, the fewer problems.

and money

[Tambov-there is god]

Excellent ships, moreover, at the price of the shit-corvette "Mercury" - we still need to complete the entire series, bring up to 6 frigates in the Black Sea Fleet.

[starshina]

I don’t understand why it’s impossible to open an intermediary company in India and purchase spare parts and engines from Ukraine through it until the problem in Russia is solved !!! Ukraine has managed to buy spare parts for armored vehicles from Russia through gasket firms in Europe in this way !!!