This is our destiny, this is our demography

Last year, Russia lost half a million people. There has not been such a shocking decline in population for 15 years.

Calculated early

It seems that someone told us: not the world, but

"Pestilence to your home."

Not so long ago, the RBC agency reported, referring to the draft unified government plan to achieve national development goals, that the total population of Russia against the background of the pandemic by the end of 2020, according to preliminary estimates, will decrease by only 158 thousand people.

Also, of course, a lot. But, you must admit, this is still not half a million, which Rosstat dispassionately informed about. As a person who has been involved in demography for many years, I affirm: there is a lot of cunning in this topic, both in official statistics and in official comments.

Let's deal.

No matter how criticized Rosstat, we should still proceed from its calculations.

At the moment, there is an official estimate of the resident population of Russia as of December 1, 2020 - 146,3 million people. Reduction from the beginning of the year - 483,8 thousand people.

The ratio of births to deaths is even worse.

Almost 60 thousand fewer births were born than in 2019. And almost 230 thousand more died. Decrease - 574,8 thousand people.

Why do not the losses coincide in the first and second cases?

Everything is banal and simple: in the first case, the migration gain is taken into account.

We can assume where the version about the population decline by 158 thousand originated from.

Recall that in July last year, the President signed a decree, according to which the government was to develop a unified plan to achieve national development goals for the period until 2024 and the planning period until 2030.

Apparently, these are the estimates of July-August last year.

Now the situation looks much more threatening. So, for 11 months of last year, according to the statistics department, compared to the same period in 2019, a decrease in the number of births was recorded in 77 regions, an increase in deaths - in 85 regions.

The statistical report says:

"In the country as a whole, there is a tendency towards a decrease in life expectancy at birth and a decrease in the total fertility rate."

Three ways of the Russian Kamasutra

There are only three ways to increase the population: an increase in the birth rate, an increase in life expectancy and an increase in migration. Alas, the situation in the country is sad in all three areas.

After the introduction of maternity capital, we observed an increase in the birth rate for several years and, accordingly, at least a slight general increase in the population. But most serious demographers warned from the start that the effect of such a measure would be short-lived.

So, in fact, it happened.

According to the latest estimates from Rosstat, the total fertility rate (the number of children born to one woman) in 2020 will be 1,49, in 2019 it was 1,50. It would seem that there is not so much difference. But here every hundredth of a percent is worth its weight in gold.

As you know, for simple reproduction of the population (if you do not dream of its growth), the birth rate should be at least 2,15. We have not been able to approach such a result for 30 years. Although we must pay tribute to the authorities: a lot has been done recently to support families with children. But, apparently, this is not enough.

Abortion country

Against the backdrop of a threatening demographic situation, calls to ban abortions began to be heard more and more often.

The topic is not new and dangerous.

Indeed, for this reason we annually lose the population of the Central European country.

In 1990, there were over 4 million abortions. In 2000 - more than 2 million. Further, the indicators continued to decline.

Still, contraception has become more and more available. Now it is 500-600 thousand operations to kill human embryos per year. Also a lot.

But in the USSR we have already passed this ban. In particular, after the war.

Guess what problem, no, trouble has arisen?

Women then still got rid of unwanted pregnancies, as at all times. But illegal. And the death rate of women of fertile age has risen sharply.

Association "Doctors of the Russian Federation" conducted a survey among almost two thousand treating physicians of all specializations. Most of the respondents (75%) believe that the current legislation related to abortion in Russia is adequate and does not need to be changed.

20% believe that the laws are too liberal and should be tightened. And 4%, on the contrary, are convinced that the laws are too conservative and should be liberalized. Tightening the legislation, according to 60% of doctors, will lead to disaster.

And only 13% of doctors believe that tightening abortion laws will lead to an improvement in the demographic situation in the country.

Finally, 19% of the respondents believe that the situation will not change at all.

Light up, however

In recent years, we have heard many times from those in power that life expectancy in the country is growing.

More and more every year. In 2019, there was a record: men - 68 and a half years, women - more than 78. Well, about the difference between men and women, everyone understands everything. But about the duration, I suppose, not for everyone.

And there is a certain slyness here.

Inquiring minds think: if you go to any cemetery and look at the dates of birth and death, arithmetic somehow does not add up. Especially in men.

The answer is simple: when the authorities tell us about the life expectancy of the people, they, as a rule, omit “unnecessary” words in this long demographic term.

The term itself among demographers sounds like this: "life expectancy at birth." That is, statisticians-demographers regularly predict (we emphasize: they only predict) that people who were born this year will live for so many years.

And the authorities are already happily informing us that our life expectancy has grown to almost 80 years. It is good to make predictions for this prospect. Who will grab you by the hand in 80 years? But even this ephemeral figure had to be lowered over the past year.

As a result, the life expectancy for women was 76,7 years against 78,3 years earlier, for men - 66,9 against 68,4. The biggest problem is that we still have a very high mortality rate for people of working age - about a third of all deaths. And 80 percent of this third are men.

He will still show the face of the beast

It is clear that the coronavirus has had and continues to have a significant impact on the growth in mortality in the past year.

For this reason alone, we have already lost more than 80 thousand people. And this, unfortunately, is not the limit.

Independent demographer Aleksey Raksha said that an analysis of the reports of the registry offices in 16 regions for December suggests that the number of deaths this month in the country as a whole has increased by 2019 thousand compared to December 96.

He explains this for several reasons at once. First, the registry offices are choked with a sharply increased number of death certificates and do not have time to process them. This is evidenced, for example, by the experience of a number of regions.

Let's single out among them Mordovia, where in November there was a suspiciously low increase in the number of deaths compared to neighboring regions - by 27%, and in December it suddenly jumped to 120%. And besides, the information in the registry offices often comes with a delay. Very often, real deaths are included in statistics with a pause of two or three months.

“Another reason is the delayed consequences of COVID-19.

Increasingly, people who have received a coronavirus infection do not die immediately, but several months after infection (from blood clots, vascular problems, kidney problems, etc.).

And this suggests that excess mortality will persist for several more months even after the end of the pandemic, ”

- notes Alexey Raksha.

Outflow of inflow

The migrants also stopped helping us out.

Even earlier, they did not fully compensate for our natural population decline. And since 2017, the migration inflow has been steadily declining. Another anti-record has been broken. If in 2019 almost 260 thousand migrants arrived in Russia, then in 2020 - only 91 thousand. The virus also worked hard.

Moreover, they have ceased to help us not only in population growth, but also in a clean economy. The agrarian, construction and utilities sectors howled. Recently, the Ministry of Agriculture of the Russian Federation begged the government: let me admit at least seasonal workers from Central Asia - there will be no one to harvest the harvest. Either not planting and not sowing, or the good will rot in the fields, our homegrown people do not want to.

Analysts interviewed by Izvestia predict that the demographic decline in 2020 caused by the pandemic will slow down the GDP rate in 2021 by 0,1–0,5%, with most of them leaning more towards a negative version of the assessment.

The most conservative forecast of the contribution of aggravated demographic problems was cited by the director of the Center for Structural Research of the Russian Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration Alexei Vedev, who believes that a decline in the population can slow down GDP by 0,3-0,5%.

Dmitry Kulikov, director of the group of sovereign ratings and macroeconomic analysis at ACRA, believes that demographic problems will slow down the growth rate of the economy by 0,25–0,35%.

According to the forecasts of the expert of BCS World of Investments, Mikhail Zeltser, the impact of the demographic failure on the GDP dynamics is possible in the range of 0,1–0,15%.

Deafening optimism

UNICEF (United Nations Children's Fund) prepared a forecast report in December.

Specifically, it says:

“According to our data, over 370 thousand children will be born around the world on the first New Year's day. Their average life expectancy will be 84 years. "

In Russia, UNICEF experts promise, on the first day of the future - 2022, almost 5 thousand children will be born, and their average life expectancy will be more than 88 years.

Oh, relieved.

We would have such optimists in the government.

Yes, more.

Comments

[Svarog]

Last year, Russia lost half a million people. There has not been such a shocking decline in population for 15 years.

Actually, this is for 10 months of last year, and for a year under 700 ..

It is clear that the coronavirus has had and continues to have a significant impact on the growth in mortality in the past year.

Yes ... if it weren't there, then it would certainly have to be invented ..
And I thought that such a mortality rate was due to the destroyed and not accessible to everyone medicine ... poor quality nutrition and low incomes.

Recently, the Ministry of Agriculture of the Russian Federation begged the government: let me admit at least seasonal workers from Central Asia - there will be no one to harvest the harvest. Either not planting and not sowing, or the good will rot in the fields, our homegrown people do not want to.

Our people do not want to hunchback for a penny .. Here the people got it .. They don’t want to work for food.

The answer is simple: when the authorities tell us about the life expectancy of the people, they, as a rule, omit “unnecessary” words in this long demographic term.

The answer is even simpler - they lie .. they constantly lie.

[Civil]

1. It's all ROSSTAT's fault!
2. Here is the support of the young in our country, for example, the singer Yura K. (23 years old) was awarded the medal of the Order of Merit to the Fatherland II on February 12, 2021.
3.

Recently, the Ministry of Agriculture of the Russian Federation begged the government: let me admit at least seasonal workers from Central Asia - there will be no one to harvest the harvest. Or not to plant and not sow, or good will rot in the fields, I don’t want our homegrown

After the fall of the ruble, it is not profitable for even poor Tajiks to come.
4. However, a new topic, since the natives are multiplying rapidly in poor countries, it means that the population must continue to be brought into poverty. And what, it will be convenient to have a lot of cheap slave power. Tribute to honey agarics will be collected more.

[Svetlana]

And where did you get the idea that Tajiks are poor? They are hard-working. And hard-working beggars are not.
And in search of earnings, the same demography pushes them. In Tajikistan, due to the high birth rate, there is an overabundance of workers and they are slowly settling in places where there are few of them.

[aars]

Migrants generally ask and receive more in our country.
On hands more.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: aars

Migrants generally ask and receive more in our country.
On hands more.

Fifteen years ago I was on a business trip at the Cherkizovsky meat-packing plant, the Kyrgyz worked there. They were paid exactly 2 times less than Russians for the same work. They were not registered, but there were never cops and the FMS in the area of ​​the plant.

[aars]

For fifteen years, a lot has changed: "Migrants began to claim higher wages than Russians" - https://rg.ru/2019/11/14/reg-cfo/migranty-stali-pretendovat-na-bolee-vysokuiu-zarplatu -chem-rossiiane.html
What was previously no longer relevant.
I have not met beggar migrants.
But perhaps my sample is a curve - oil workers, builders ...

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: aars

But perhaps my sample is a curve - oil workers, builders ...

Yes, they are probably skilled workers.

[maximaniak]

Yes, in the agricultural sector they receive at or a little less. In fact, a little more, because they are ready to work day and night and seven days a week. I'm talking about unskilled labor, hands in the mud. Sometimes Russian "brigades" come for the same work, there is laziness and drunkenness, the feeling that the homeless were brought by force

[lucul]

Fifteen years ago I was on a business trip at the Cherkizovsky meat-packing plant, the Kyrgyz worked there. They were paid exactly 2 times less than Russians for the same work. They were not registered, but there were never cops and the FMS in the area of ​​the plant.

Any migrants take the Russians' pension.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: lucul

Any migrants take the Russians' pension.

Can you tell me who brings them here? Who conducts this immigration policy? They also opened America to me, they take away the pension from the Russians, why should I blame the Kirghiz for this? Or is Navalny's boat shaking again? Give me this nationalism, the government is taking away their pensions from the Russians, and bringing in migrants instead of raising wages.

[lucul]

Throw me this nationalism, the government is taking away their pension from the Russians

Is it the government that brings in migrants, and not the entrepreneurs themselves? )))
I didn't know, I didn't know)))

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: lucul

Is it the government that brings in migrants, not entrepreneurs? )))

How! Who is responsible for legislative and supervisory functions? On peasant farms or individual entrepreneurs, or what?

[lucul]

How! Who is responsible for legislative and supervisory functions?

Where, in which developed country are migrants banned? ))))

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: lucul

Where, in which developed country are migrants banned?

Why did you write this? I answered this comment of yours

Quote: lucul

Any migrants take the Russians' pension.

and this

Quote: lucul

Is it the government that brings in migrants, and not the entrepreneurs themselves? )))
I didn't know, I didn't know)))

I don't understand, do we have more jobs than Russians, or do we have such salaries that only migrants work for them? Why allow labor migration, so that Russians receive even less?
PS Is that a developed capitalist country?

[lucul]

Why did you write this? I answered this comment of yours

Wipe your eyes - wrote on this

How! Who is responsible for legislative and supervisory functions?

Or did you not write it? )))
It's just that in Russia the key business players are not Russians, and migrants are cheaper for them.
And in order to stop all this, it is enough to raise your own Russian Savvas Morozovs, not Filsteins, to procreate with Epsteins. This is the root cause, not the government.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: lucul

It's just that in Russia the key business players are not Russians, and migrants are cheaper for them.

Yes, you are a terry nationalist. Did you go to school at all? Or did the exam not bypassed you? Do you know that "socially responsible businessmen" have no nationality? Where the pocket is, there is nationality.

Quote: lucul

And in order to stop all this, it is enough to raise your own Russian Savvas Morozovs, not Filsteins, to procreate with Epsteins. This is the root cause, not the government.

Are you healthy? We have been "raising our Russian Savvas Morozovs" for 30 years
(Potanins, Mordashevs and others like them), maybe it's time to think about birches?

[lucul]

Do you know that "socially responsible businessmen" have no nationality?

Always the same nationality? Yes, we know.
It is also known that in Germany the elite are Germans, in Spain - the Spaniards, in China - the Chinese, and only in Russia the elite are not Russians.

[your1970]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

I don't understand, do we have more jobs than Russians, or do we have such salaries that only migrants work for them? Why allow labor migration, so that Russians receive even less?

A local farmer complained last week that there were no workers. He cannot pay more than 45 monthly, otherwise it will not make sense to work. Earlier migrants helped out - three worked for him, left. Local, who have been working for a long time in the city, who remain at least 000 pay, they will not work in principle.
Our newcomers don't go to the village to plow for this money.
A vicious circle - if he pays more, he will have to sell products more expensively and much more - and this will lead to the fact that no one will take them.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: your1970

A local farmer complained last week that there were no workers. He cannot pay more than 45 monthly, otherwise it will not make sense to work. ......

I confirm that you wrote it absolutely correctly. There is no work or workers in the village. Because they killed the village. A village today cannot exist without collective farms.

[New Year day]

Quote: your1970

remaining though 200 000 pay, they will not work in principle.

Well, where is this "Klondike"? Are you stuck?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Silvestr

Well, where is this "Klondike"? Are you stuck?

No, well, 200 thousand, of course, is exaggerated, but the fact that the village has greatly degraded is a fact.

[New Year day]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

No, well, 200 thousand, of course exaggerated

In fact of the matter

Quote: aleksejkabanets

the village is severely degraded

Undeniably

[your1970]

Quote: Silvestr

Quote: aleksejkabanets

No, well, 200 thousand, of course exaggerated

In fact of the matter

Quote: aleksejkabanets

the village is severely degraded

Undeniably

7 years ago, geologists worked for us. They needed workers (4 man) - pull the cables across the fields. 2 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening.
60 on hands, not in Moscow, but at home, not a scam, you can be at home for half a day, in the field they even fed non-locals for free.
Found ... two !!!! one quit a week later, mastered the second month. "It's hot and hard ..."
As a result, geologists brought 4 people from Voronezh ...

again - 60 000 for low-skilled part-time work while at home (not in Moscow / St. Petersburg), before the price jump in 2014 and Crimea - then it was a lot of money

[your1970]

Quote: Silvestr

Quote: your1970

remaining though 200 000 pay, they will not work in principle.

Well, where is this "Klondike"? Are you stuck?

No..

Quote: your1970

working for a long time in the city,

And the rest are out of the habit of work regular and heavy... Agriculture is very specific. You can stop admitting patients at 17:00 (are you a doctor like?), Close the office and go home. In agriculture, it doesn’t roll like that .. And it never did… A half-milked cow at 6 a.m. does not care about your birthdays, mood and shifts, she will yell ..
And a guy if plowing it a day later may not give you anything - and then you are not that 200, then a farmer and 45 may not scrape together
It's not concrete to interfere with concrete at a construction site and not to twist tails to machines ...

[New Year day]

Quote: your1970

It doesn't work like that in agriculture

I won't even argue, I agree.
But ..

Quote: your1970

you can stop seeing patients at 17:00

to do this and help you need to study for at least 10 years.
And if the

Quote: your1970

A half-milked cow at 6 in the morning does not care

then the patient, alas, no.
All professions are needed, all professions are important

[your1970]

Quote: Silvestr

then the patient, alas, no.

easily.... Before the virus - chips got into the eye. Came to the reception at 16:20 (reception until 17) - right now, wait and go into the blue distance .. And figly, she is 71 years old, she has a length of service like a crow from an army joke .. Came in 40 minutes - my appointment is over. ..
I had to turn on the administrative resource and go to the head physician. He promised that he would rearrange the fences around the hospital at night, because ... Inspired ... Strongly ...
After 5 minutes, it was already processed and the chips were removed. She sighed too, the pepper pot was old, they say it came on time, I could have endured it until morning, I could have lost my eye.

In early 2000 (ebn only managed to say about leaving) - he dislocated his knee. We took a picture. A month - the knee does not heal. I went to my uncle in Moscow - he was in charge of the trauma center then.
I arrived, and he had a commission from the Ministry of Health. And deruuuut ...
He showed them my picture and showed it ..
The commission is shocked - we remove our teeth at this size, no more ...
And then the whole knee.
The uncle laughed - they say he killed the commission with one shot, their fuse immediately passed

Z. Y. If you think that you don’t need to study in the agricultural sector, then no .. No one will entrust the herd to an experienced shepherd, you have to walk in shepherds for at least five years. This man is a tenacious beast, and the ladybird almost ate that grass and all the knives! Or bitter milk ...

[New Year day]

Quote: your1970

and he has a commission from the Ministry of Health.

This is the main pest. As they used to say, "Army is a mold of society." Replace the word "army" with any other, the result is the same

[Rome]

Yes, there are many jobs, local specialists are stupidly lacking! Try to find yourself employees, and then tell about the results
Salaries don't appear out of thin air! The ability to pay a lot or a little depends not on the greed of entrepreneurs, but on the market; profitability determines the size of the salary.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Eroma

Yes, there are many jobs

You wrote something strange. There were many jobs when I came from the army, in 1990. Only at the factory where I got a job there were about 100 of them, in a similar profession. The plant had about 3500 employees and there were at least five such factories. The city has about 200 thousand people. Now there is not a single such plant in the city.

Quote: Eroma

local specialists are stupidly lacking!

Where is it? And what salaries are not enough for specialists?

Quote: Eroma

The ability to pay a lot or a little depends not on the greed of entrepreneurs, but on the market; profitability determines the size of the salary.

And the market and profitability are controlled by the state, it has full means to regulate these entities.

[your1970]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

Where is it? And what salaries are not enough for specialists?

We have for example .. There is a workshop at the service station in which there is a lathe and a milling machine. The owner wants 30% for himself (for electricity, heating, taxes, problems, and others) -70% for the turner from the proceeds. The old one (died, was 76 years old) turned out from 60 to 70 clean hands per month. Work on orders - you don't even need to sit there all day, they called - came
They cannot find a turner for 4 years, no one willing

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: your1970

The owner wants 30% for himself (for electricity, heating, taxes, problems, etc.) -70% for the turner ...

Maybe they are afraid of percent, I can't say. Although there are no specialists. The old ones do not work in their specialty for a long time (there is nowhere), and vocational schools prepare more "masters of nail service". The institution of mentoring is completely lost. I repaired them in the USSR (CNC machines) I could work on them when that. There is nothing complicated there. There is enough base)))) But as it was, a month or two people work with a mentor who really teaches. Now there is no such thing, competition.

[your1970]

Orders are transported for 200 km to the region - this is roughly the price of the product plus 1,5 rubles
Well, he can still do something, there would be a desire. The material is either the owner's or the client's.
Buy yourself material and tochi the deficit for agricultural machinery with the same interest
Well, that is, you will not stay hungry in any case - you would have your hands from the right place

[Victor Demchenko]

I'm sorry, but you wrote clearly without thinking! or you're not in the subject, or I'm sorry, but a complete stupid person! since you write, you can sharpen bolts, and for fastening non-critical units and parts, and for the manufacture of the same crankshaft, in addition to the lathe, a lot of machines and heat treatment are required. and press or blacksmith production, which requires very highly skilled labor! yes, and sharpening (as you deigned to notice, you also need to purchase a machine, and have hands with your head to boot! Otherwise, you won't even be able to sharpen a cutter (again, emery is needed!) ...

[your1970]

Quote: Viktor Demchenko

you wrote clearly without thinking! or you're not in the subject, or I'm sorry, but a complete stupid person!

-hm .... to I knew only one complete, stupid person - George W. Bush. There are two of you...

Quote: Viktor Demchenko

for making the same crankshaft

-Where did you see the crankshaft?WHERE!!!!!!!!

Quote: Viktor Demchenko

and sharpening (as you deigned to note, you also need to purchase a machine,

- you didn't try to read your opponent before splashing saliva, did you?

Quote: your1970

There is a workshop at the service station in which there is(!!!) lathe and milling machine.

Quote: Victor Demchenko

(again, emery is needed!).

- naturally there IS emery and not one

Once again, personally for you and George W. Bush (if he reads VO) - in this workshop, the manufacture of highly complex products - requiring forging, pressing, thermal and other machine tools - is not in the tasks. They NOT Iizhmash, Uralvagon and Boeing - they made simple parts for agricultural machines according to the individual orders of farmers.
Just because

Quote: your1970

Orders are transported for 200 km to the region - this is roughly the price of the product plus 1,5 rubles

and nowhere closer there are turners / millers.
Moreover, a specific wick in the store may not be right away right away, but only on order.
And yes, bolts - you can buy them, but you can only sharpen a locking pin, for example, and then mill a rectangular head. And such a small garbage - a carriage ...

[Victor Demchenko]

Quote: your1970

They cannot find a turner for 4 years, no one willing

the trouble is that there are no specialists! My friend has a 6th grade turner, and he is already 68 years old ... and so, with him, the head of the company greets FIRST and every time he meets he asks about his health ... you think from great respect ?! NOT! if he leaves, it is simply not realistic to find a specialist of this level in his place! THEY ARE JUST DO NOT LEARN NOW! THIS IS JUST THE RESULT OF OPTIMIZING THE TRAINING SYSTEM ... and someone will now try to prove to me that we have adequate people in power, and they do EVERYTHING for the good of the country ...?!
MEN! today without a mat it is IMPOSSIBLE to DRAW the state of the whole economy of the country! today I drove to the small wholesale market, (my wife insisted!) and ... precipitated! after the announcement of our ALL about CONTROL of food prices, prices have increased by 15-45% how! that's cool control!

[Gaersul]

the trouble is that there are no specialists!

But there are a bunch of supervisors overseeing your work. They can sit behind your back for 8 hours (I'm not kidding) and watch your every action, what if you are shirking? This is the kind of work, they can still draw a beautiful schedule, which must be strictly followed, otherwise the general needs to lick that everything was done on time under his strict guidance. And if nuances arise (analog microwave, if anything, there is such a bulk), then right away: "Oh, the device does not work? We need to understand what the problem is? You scoundrel! Do not dare to disrupt the schedule, immediately skip the product, do not care what flaws, you report to me you spoil! " Well, something like this.

[New Year day]

Quote: Eroma

The ability to pay a lot or a little depends not on the greed of entrepreneurs, but on the market; profitability determines the size of the salary.

on the example of housing offices and management companies is very indicative According to the statement "Ivanov Ivan" with a salary of 25-30 thousand, in life - "Azat" and on the hands of 12-15 thousand

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: Silvestr

using the example of housing offices and management companies ...

About 15 years ago, the exact same picture was at the Cherkizovsky meat-packing plant.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: lucul

Where, in which developed country are migrants banned? ))))

It's not about the ban, but about the sane migration policy. The politics of the United Arab Emirates is an example for you. Everything is thought out, and zero crime among migrants.

[clerk]

Again, the government did not please you. It is the increase in wages that makes migrants more attractive to employers. If it were possible to pay mere pennies to its own people, then there would be no benefit in attracting migrants. Clean economy.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

Again, the government did not please you. It is the increase in wages that makes migrants more attractive to employers. If it were possible to pay mere pennies to its own people, then there would be no benefit in attracting migrants. Clean economy.

So who should regulate all this? Who should improve the living standards of citizens? Is it not the state?

[clerk]

Including. And the growth in the number of immigrants is a consequence of the rise in living standards. Therefore, it makes no sense to scold the authorities for the growth in the number of migrants and at the same time for the insufficient standard of living of the population - there is an inverse relationship between these processes.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

Therefore, it makes no sense to scold the authorities for the growth in the number of migrants and at the same time for the insufficient standard of living of the population - there is an inverse relationship between these processes.

Is it impossible to simultaneously raise the living standards of the population and prohibit labor migration? What's in the way?

[clerk]

It is hampered by the fact that the large-scale economic process cannot be stopped by administrative measures in principle. A good example is the Trump Wall on the border with Mexico (absolutely the same problem). There is either a harshly repressive version of the USSR type (illegally crossed the border - into prison), or additional fees from employers with simultaneous prosecution for the use of illegal migrants. But this is a laborious process.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

There is either a harshly repressive version of the USSR type (illegally crossed the border - into prison),

And what about the law now? Are they fed with marzipans? In the camp and deportation, so according to the law. And the fact that they are hired is a violation of the law. Corruption phenomena so to speak. In our country, it is a paradise for corrupt officials.

Quote: clerk

It is hampered by the fact that the large-scale economic process cannot be stopped by administrative measures in principle.

Is this illegal labor migration in your "large-scale economic process" or what? Or do you think that the law on facilitating entry for labor migrants is a boon for the country?

[clerk]

1) "In the camp" - this is to cut the forest on the zone pr UK (as in the USSR). Not deportation. 2) I am practically sure that you know about the "paradise for corrupt officials" from Navalny's films, etc., but have not personally come across .. 3) Illegal labor migration is a really large-scale economic process, and not just corruption in the government. By the way, the look at this clearly shows the difference between the current illiterate Internet communoids from the real communists of the past, who understood the economic essence of the processes. 4) The law was not adopted from a good life. The locals do not want to work in non-prestigious and difficult jobs.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

I am practically sure that you know about the "paradise for corrupt officials" from Navalny's films, etc., but have not personally come across it ..

Have you been driving for a long time? Do you have a small business of your own? Have you or your loved ones never attended "free" operations? I could list many more, for grants, for example, for business, etc.

Quote: clerk

Illegal labor migration is a truly large-scale economic process, not just government corruption.

Justify. Show me the "objective economic process" here. All I see here is corruption and legislation designed to make the entrepreneur pay less wages to the worker.

Quote: clerk

The law was not passed from a good life. The locals do not want to work in non-prestigious and difficult jobs.

Locals do not want to work for such a salary. I have an average salary in the city of 15 thousand. What is it enough for?

[clerk]

... Have you been driving for a long time? Do you have your own small business? Have you or your loved ones never attended "free" operations? I could list a lot more, for grants, for example, for business, etc.

... What did you personally stack with? And compare with what it was 15 years ago - has it become more, less, also?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

What did you personally stack with? And compare with what it was 15 years ago - has it become more, less, also?

It's the same for HAYs, I can't compare it in medicine (but I can't say the same without a mat), it's the same for business (regional officials), only appetites have grown, different services have become better due to government services, in general, cardinally in my region nothing changed. All of them were reborn there, overcrowded, only they do not kill yet, as in Kushchevka, and so the merging of power, business and crime in all its glory.

[clerk]

And not dramatically?

[clerk]

... Justify. Show me the "objective economic process" here. All I see here is corruption and legislation designed to make the entrepreneur pay less wages to the worker.

... The most banal balance of demand for cheap labor and its supply. And the State cannot force an entrepreneur to pay high salaries. Trade unions are doing this in the world.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

The state cannot force an entrepreneur to pay high salaries.

But it may not put a spoke in its wheels, it may not take so many taxes from it, especially pension taxes, it's like, I have a turnover of 0, but pay my pension. I'm talking about small business. Why are such loans gold for business? For state support, grants, only in a share with officials, otherwise nothing, a competition. And then how to account for kickbacks?

[clerk]

Inflation loans. Grants are generally a freebie - you don't need to give them away. Nobody forces you to take. As for the tax burden on business, in Russia it is average - lower than in the most developed countries of Europe.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

Trade unions are doing this in the world.

Yes, I can not imagine trade unions, for trade workers at some "uncle Ashot".))))

[clerk]

And not only "Uncle Ashot" - in the largest state-owned company with this at all. This is the fundamental difference between Russia and Western countries - we can fight for our labor rights only by putting forward claims to the supreme power. Why so - I do not know, but it significantly reduces the stability of the system as a whole.

[clerk]

... Locals do not want to work for such a salary. I have an average salary in the city of 15 thousand. What is it enough?

It's hard to believe in such an average. Name the city

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

It's hard to believe in such an average. Name the city

Krasnodar Territory Labinsk. Maybe 16 thousand, but hardly more, I'm on the stock exchange this hour, more than 14 thousand have not been offered, but usually 12 thousand. Loader on the base 6 days 12 hours up to 22 thousand

[clerk]

The first link gave out: - "Seller of the store" Magnet "
from 19 300 rub. before taxes. "That is, 16700 on hand. In general, the average for Labinsk for the last year is 38 thousand.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

In general, the average for Labinsk for the past year is 38 thousand.

And how much does the national average give out? ))))))

Quote: clerk

The first link gave out: - "Seller of the store" Magnet "
from 19 300 rub. before taxes. "That is 16700 in hand.

"It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines.")))) Who pays for the shortfall? For the fact that buyers steal, for the fact that the goods are spoiled? You will talk with those who work there, you will learn a lot. And by the way, another interesting point, such organizations do not take those who have debts from bailiffs or debts to banks.

[clerk]

The average one is strangely lazy, but the EMNP is 35 thousand. That there are pitfalls, I know about it. But again, this is really the first link that comes across. Do you really have no acquaintances or relatives in a town with a population of 60 thousand who can help you find a decent job? Or what keeps you there?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

Do you really have no acquaintances or relatives in a town with a population of 60 thousand who can help you find a decent job? Or what keeps you there?

Well, specifically in my case, I swore to work for someone 10-15 years ago. Working in today's big companies is a pleasure. Working for small entrepreneurs is the same, "so-so pleasure", either they designated the work - received an advance payment, fulfilled - received the rest of the amount, or I do not work with them in any way. I work for myself, but I stand at the employment center, because I recently closed the IE. Do you think it is a good practice to look for a job by acquaintance? Personally, I don’t like the fact that you can get any decent job only by acquaintance, in the provinces at any rate. It's hard to say what holds in the province, I probably don't like the hustle and bustle of big cities, the old one, probably for them))), if I go somewhere, then only to the sea. There "everyone is in white pants.")))) I don't care about the size of the city, if only the Internet is good, I need it for work, I am an IT guy.

[clerk]

That is, you want to find a job that would correspond to your life philosophy? This one commands human respect, but very seriously reduces the number of possible options. And your criticism of the state in this respect becomes not entirely correct. Again, if you are not kept in Labinsk by old parents, small children, or similar circumstances, then the unwillingness to move to earn money (if you want this earnings) is not entirely clear. After all, even in the USSR “for a long ruble” it was necessary to go “to hell”.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

That is, you want to find a job that would correspond to your philosophy of life?

No, I personally don't need the work, I'm finishing my project now, God willing, I'll launch it by March XNUMXst.

Quote: clerk

Again, if you are not kept in Labinsk by old parents, small children or similar circumstances ...

Parents (39 and 41 years old) live 50 km from me, I have five children, four of them are junior schoolchildren, so you can't really jump for a "long ruble")))) Yes, I don't strive, where If you live, you have to work, if you have a head, you can earn everywhere. Here and so half of the country goes to Moscow, but to the north, this is not normal, I think. Regions do not develop at all. I just think that the fact that the population is becoming impoverished, and the government prefers not to notice it, is not right. Such an attitude will lead to trouble. Is it normal when the most socially protected layer of people is pensioners, when children are 180 rubles. at the child, some kind of mockery, and then they detained for 2 months.

[clerk]

1) In the USA, it is considered normal to be blown up by the whole family and go to the other end of the country to a place and work. In monarchist and Soviet Russia, it was a normal practice when men, to feed their families, went to work in cities / north / construction sites. In Europe, they left to make money in the colonies. We just lost the habit of it. By the way, this is clearly manifested in the dreams of the communoids about the genius Stalin, while it is completely forgotten that 90% of his success (like Lenin's) is what they worked hard like Pope Carlo. 2) I do not see impoverishment in Russia. There has been some impoverishment over the last covid year, but this is far from impoverishment. The talk about the impoverishment of Russians has only one purpose - to inspire Russians with the idea of ​​how bad they live, rock the boat, throw the Putin down and destroy the country. You must remember well the Gorbachev perestroika of 1986-90. and how the USSR was destroyed according to this scheme. Want to replay?

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

90% of his success (like Lenin's) is what they worked hard like daddy Carlo.

The question to you is, why did they do all this? What property did the leaders of that era leave? What did Stalin leave, a couple of pipes, a couple of suits, and the current ones? We have two morals, one for the poor, the other for the rich, as under kings.

Quote: clerk

I do not see impoverishment in Russia. There has been some impoverishment over the last covid year, but this is far from impoverishment.

Apparently you are a military pensioner and do not live in the province. I lived in a village, 15 years ago the herd was 100 heads, today it is less than 20, there is nowhere to graze, salaries have not been growing for a long time, which cannot be said about prices.

Quote: clerk

about how bad they live, rock the boat, throw off the Putin and destroy the country. You must remember well the Gorbachev perestroika of 1986-90. and how the USSR was destroyed according to this scheme. Want to replay?

This is probably the key words in our dialogue with you. Regarding the fact that "to overthrow Putin and destroy the country" I completely agree with you, they destroyed the USSR, took public property into their pockets, and exactly the same people want to do the same with the Russian Federation, exactly those in whose hands the real power. Look who finances Navalny, is it only Western intelligence services? Not so long ago, Potanin was caught financing Navalny through his structures. However, in terms of corruption in the Russian Federation, in terms of the impoverishment of the population, Navalny is absolutely right. Is he the only one talking about it? Another thing is that his funding is several orders of magnitude higher than that of the same Udaltsov, for example, and he is heard more on this. I have never supported and do not support Navalny's libertarian ideas, but the power itself is rocking the boat, with its irrepressible thirst for profit, its stupidity and lack of understanding of what ordinary people live. "Makaroshkas always stand the same," "the state did not ask you to give birth," "the state does not owe you anything," and there are a lot of such pearls. Not all people are politically literate, not everyone can see today where this or that action will lead, but Marie Antoinette (in my opinion), when she was told that people on the outskirts had no bread, quite seriously stated, “let them eat pies” and why did it lead? And you are completely in vain to scold the communists, our entire current state is still devouring their inheritance, but does not create anything new.

[clerk]

1) There are two morals in any society - one for the top (foreign owner), the other "for the cattle." Sometimes this is covered by slogans about equality. 2) Against Potanin - a common practice is not to put eggs in one basket. 3) I agree in part about the guilt of the authorities, but one cannot fail to notice that the authorities promptly react to these shoals, and they arrest many in their ranks (read every six months a character at the level of a minister - a deputy ends up on a bunk). 4) about cakes and Marie-Antoinette "Ne is how it was, savsem is not so" (c) 5) I scold not the Soviet communists who did the work, and not even the Duma communists who portray the opposition, but the Internet communists, with their chatter about communism-capitalism and the stupid Svidomo mantra "Stalin will come - put things in order"

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

about cakes and Marie-Antoinette "Ne is how it was, savsem is not so"

Of course not, but indicative.

Quote: clerk

I agree in part about the guilt of the authorities, but one cannot fail to notice that the authorities promptly react to these jambs,

If there are no systemic changes, then all this will end in blood, and neither I nor you want to.

Quote: clerk

There are two morals in any society - one for the top (foreign owner), the other "for the cattle."

It wasn't always like this. In the early USSR, the times of Lenin and Stalin, it was completely different.

[clerk]

... It wasn't always like this. In the early USSR, the times of Lenin and Stalin, it was completely different.

I do not agree with you - and then there were 2 morals - for the revolutionary class and for the bourgeoisie. The difference with the present time is only in sign - for the bourgeois, then morality was more rigid.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

I do not agree with you - and then there were 2 morals - for the revolutionary class and for the bourgeoisie.

Then rather not morality, but rights. The "bourgeois" were defeated in their rights. And there was only one morality, the building of communism, both for the top and for the bottom. The ingested top was brought to life very quickly and radically. They acted according to the principle: "To whom much is given, from that much will be demanded." It is a pity that under the current system this principle will not work.

[clerk]

The law is based on morality. As for the principle, it is too bloody and at the present time even a relative benefit from it will not be

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

As for the principle, it is too bloody and at the present time even a relative benefit from it will not be

Oh is it? And how do you like that, a 65-year-old grandfather sits 2.8 for a cart of corn, for a few bales of straw 3,6. He stole three chickens and a worker's jacket, got 2,6, a year later fell ill with tuberculosis and died, I served there and had to talk to his wife. Can you imagine what I listened to? What could I object? And now imagine that they are sitting there for economic crimes, who is a librarian, who is a watchman, They give them 5-7 years, they sit there as many do not live in freedom, after 2-3 years they are released, who on parole, some on amnesty or pardon. Now nothing has changed, everything is the same, my friends still work there.

[clerk]

... How do you like that, a 65-year-old grandfather sits 2.8 for a cart of corn, for a few bales of straw 3,6. He stole three chickens and a worker's jacket, got 2,6, a year later fell ill with tuberculosis and died, I served there and had to talk to his wife. Can you imagine what I heard? What could I argue

law and justice are different concepts. If this grandfather has 3-4 trips for small things, then, according to the law, he is a repeat offender and the judge, with all his might, cannot give him less dates, and in the USA, in a similar situation, he would have been soldered for 20-25 years.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

If this grandfather has 3-4 trips for small things

I don't remember, to be honest. But in any case, the picture comes out unsightly. The penitentiary system in general is such a bottom that I don't even want to speak for it.

[clerk]

... If there are no systemic changes, then all this will end in blood, and neither I nor you want to.

I strongly disagree with you - now in society there are no systemic contradictions (as between the oligarchy and the bureaucracy in the 90s) and unresolved crises (like the land or demographic crisis in 1917). Therefore, if the authorities do not make gross mistakes (such as the beating of students under Yanukovych), then nothing threatens the stability of the system. It is not for nothing that the bulked-ups swing the system by means of demagoguery and outright lies, contrary to objective impressions, convincing (!) People that everything is bad with them. Such a protest will not be enough for a revolution (there are no objective prerequisites), but quite enough for a summit coup. And the owners of Navalny do not need more from him.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

now there are no systemic contradictions in society (as between the oligarchy and the bureaucracy in the 90s) ...

There are always systemic contradictions between wage labor and capital under capitalism. Another question is that they have not yet become so aggravated that it will result in the shedding of blood. However, there are tendencies towards this, the life of ordinary people is deteriorating, demographic indicators are deteriorating, I have serious doubts that the authorities will be able to overcome this. Navalny has no political program, no intelligible slogans, this is the same Yeltsin, only in profile. Let's see, the next year or two will show how the authorities will get out of all this, personally, I do not see any reason for optimism yet. I would like to be wrong, of course.

[clerk]

Our main capitalist is the state, so the issues of contradictions between labor and capital are relatively easy to solve. The main dangers of the PMSM are the infantilism of the young generation, who can easily be convinced that it lives poorly, and cultural contradictions due to the replacement of Russians by the Asians.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

We have the main capitalist state

This is not so, not so at all, fundamentally wrong. I can look for calculations for you, but not today.

[clerk]

I will familiarize myself with interest, according to my estimates, the state controls 2/3 of the economy.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

I will familiarize myself with interest, according to my estimates, the state controls 2/3 of the economy.

The question here is how to count. Fas counts as 70%, RANEPA is estimated at only 44%, the IMF counts as 33%, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development counts as 35%. If we count by the share of fixed assets in state ownership, we get 18% at all. ))))) The main problem in the calculations is what should be attributed to the public sector: "Is a company with state participation state-owned or not?" I understand that Fas thinks yes. I think that the FAS is an interested source, because it recommends certain companies for privatization. Here are three not-so-bad articles:
https://www.rbc.ru/economics/12/03/2019/5c879e0c9a79472f59316a90
https://www.ng.ru/economics/2018-12-26/4_7474_gossektor.html
http://bujet.ru/article/377053.php
I don't have enough time to really dig deeper into all this.

[clerk]

Thanks for the links. I consider state-owned companies where the state directly or indirectly owns a controlling stake.

[clerk]

... Apparently you are a military pensioner and do not live in the province. I lived in a village, 15 years ago the herd was 100 heads, today there are less than 20, there is nowhere to graze, salaries have not been growing for a long time, which cannot be said about prices.

... I am an ordinary hired clerk for the economic part and until retirement age I am like a copper pot. I really live in the provincial town. I can't say anything about your village (maybe it was just turned into building plots), but in general agriculture in Russia on the rise is the industry where import substitution has worked most successfully.

[alekseykabanets]

Quote: clerk

I can't say anything about your village (maybe it was just turned into building plots),

There is no plot there for free, you can take it, or for a nominal fee.

Quote: clerk

but in general, agriculture in Russia is on the rise - this is the industry where import substitution has worked most successfully.

Here you are greatly mistaken. Only the sale of feed grains to Turkey is on the rise. And the consequences of this are extremely negative. Corn costs more than 17 rubles. per kg, barley with wheat - within 15 p. Those. fodder has risen in price very much, in the egg store, about 90 rubles, last year there were about 50 rubles. vegetable oil has risen in price by more than 30%, sugar has greatly increased in price. Beets were planted less and more grain. Reminiscent of the grain situation in tsarist Russia. Those. grain is sold at world prices, but our salaries do not correspond to these prices. Grain exports are killing livestock, sugar beet production and a number of related industries even further.

[clerk]

Food prices have been stable for several years - the current increase is winning back inflation during this time.

[Svetlana]

Because they returned to the system from which Soviet Power tried to pull them out.
Tajikistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and other countries in the east do not accept the other and do not build

[Greenwood]

Quote: Svetlana

Tajikistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and other countries in the east do not accept the other and do not build

Therefore, they live in their own medieval poverty (and this is precisely poverty) and at the first opportunity they scatter to different rich countries.

[Ben Gunn]

Yes, they have already finished everything created by the Russians, and now they all come here to make Tajikistan out of our country.

[Gardamir]

They are hard-working

humorist. We used to swallow this, this nonsense about hardworking and non-drinking Middle Asians .. But someone, under the guise of looking for a job, brings drugs to the country.

[Destiny]

Quote: Gardamir

hardworking and non-drinking middle Asians .. But someone under the guise of looking for a job brings drugs to the country.

They drink worse than ours until their neighbors in the kishlak see. And the drugs are from them and from the gypsies, mostly. They are hardworking, too, to me. And they are no longer shy about prices, they ask for kalym as travel money, I’d better give this money to the person about whom I know for sure that I have worked in the SMU all my life, and yesterday these sheep grazed, and today suddenly there were bricklayers and plasterers with many years of experience, as if ..

[aars]

Funny: chatting with a Kazakh woman, beautiful - horror!
I told her - When will you get married?
She - Never!
- Why so?!
- Father asks for kalym five million!
PS: rubles, of course, local ...

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: aars

Funny: chatting with a Kazakh woman, beautiful - horror!

Kazakh? Beautiful? You're scaring me. Metisca most likely.

[vindigo]

Maybe from a junior zhuz. It's kind of cute there.

[210ox]

I apologize for not being a topic. There are places in Mongolia where women are very beautiful. They are called seedlings. The gang ataman Semyonovna made its "contribution" to the Mongol blood.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: 210ox

I apologize for not being a topic. There are places in Mongolia where women are very beautiful. They are called seedlings. The gang ataman Semyonovna made its "contribution" to the Mongol blood.

Yes, mestizos are always beautiful.

[mole]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: aars

Funny: chatting with a Kazakh woman, beautiful - horror!

Kazakh? Beautiful? You're scaring me. Metisca most likely.

So it is written: "Horror"!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Mole

It says: "Horror"

What's wrong? I lived in Kazakhstan for 5 years, I know what I'm talking about.

[your1970]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: aars

Funny: chatting with a Kazakh woman, beautiful - horror!

Kazakh? Beautiful? You're scaring me. Metisca most likely.

Many beautiful young people. With age, yes, less, but this is true for all women

[New Year day]

Quote: Svetlana

And where did you get the idea that Tajiks are poor? They are hard-working. And hard-working beggars are not.

I wonder why Asians then enroll in guest workers?

[Svetlana]

Nobody records anywhere. You write them down there. Most of them do not understand and do not know this word. It is demographic pressure that drives them out of their homeland. There are many of them there due to the high birth rate. There are fewer and fewer of us in Russia, and no one has yet abolished the law of communicating vessels.

[New Year day]

Quote: Svetlana

Nobody records anywhere.

Just in front of me, 2 Uzbeks are rowing snow

[Svetlana]

So what? They chopped my wood.

[Dwellernet]

Here I am an engineer, my wife is a doctor, everyone has more than 20 years of experience in their specialties, the eldest daughter defends her diploma in power supply networks (according to the state, a red diploma is issued). Well, tell me how Tajiks will replace us. Yes, in 20 years they will again sit in yurts and drown with dung.

[Dwellernet]

Here I am an engineer, my wife is a doctor, everyone has more than 20 years of experience in their specialties, the eldest daughter defends her diploma in power supply networks (according to the state, a red diploma is issued). Well, tell me how Tajiks will replace us. Yes, in 20 years they will again sit in yurts and drown with dung.

[Escobar]

Speak correctly. I knew one of the people from Central Asia. He came to Russia to work, he was at home only to sleep and rented a small room in a hostel to send more to his family home.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Svarog

Our people do not want to hunchback for a penny .. Here the people got it .. They don’t want to work for food.

Moreover, the same Tajiks, receiving less than 20 thousand from us, with this money can support a family of 5 people in their Tajikistan and even build a house. It was instead of this that he worked at seasonal work in the summer, he was not allowed in due to the virus. He was still a worker, he brought the whole farm in order for a month. Everything was kept on snot.

[Dym71]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Moreover, the same Tajiks, receiving from us less than 20 thousand

Greetings!
Which is less than 20 thousand? 1,5 - 2 thousand rubles. on the day, already wrote, there was a case.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Dym71

Greetings!
Which is less than 20 thousand? 1,5 - 2 thousand rubles. on the day, already wrote, there was a case.

Where? Specifically, I got 17 thousand a month, with six days of work a week, with one day off a week, that is. 600 rubles with something per day. They do not pay for the hike there, in their Kyrgyzstan at all. In googled, 30 bucks utility bills in Tajikistan. Bread - 20 cents, milk - 50. No wonder they work here and live there.

[aars]

A Tajik acquaintance earned 80 thousand by repairing apartments.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: aars

A Tajik acquaintance earned 80 thousand by repairing apartments.

I am writing about the job where I worked instead of this Uzbek. This money was enough for him to support his family of 5 people in his Kyrgyzstan, and even build a house. And for 80 thousand there along the way, mansions can be erected.

[aars]

Aaa, he probably did not know construction specialties ...
I offered my friend a watch, a well survey operator - I didn't want to, it's cold there and you have to work all the time ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: aars

Aaa, he probably did not know construction specialties ...

This radish did not own anything along the way, and I hesitated to redo everything for him.

[Vadim Ananyin]

I want to ask how much you offered him, how old is he, marital status?

[Dym71]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Where?

Volodya, yes, he already wrote, in Tula, specifically a construction site, earthworks, cash at the end of the working day.

[Mordvin 3]

Come to Donskoy, see what salaries are there.

[Dym71]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Come to Donskoy, see what salaries are there.

Such salaries are 12-15 sput. and in Tula there is (JSC "Elektroprivod"), I tell you that you still need to look for such a salary of a horseman.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Dym71

Such salaries are 12-15 sput. and in Tula there is (JSC "Elektroprivod"), I tell you that you still need to look for such a salary of a horseman.

I was walking recently, I saw - my passport was lying around. It was opened by a man from the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug of 30 years. I saw the janitor waving a shovel, like he was. I come up and hand over the passport, yours? Mine, oh, no, not mine, hard workers live here, they probably. Well, I told this reindeer breeder to give the passport to those hard workers. If anything, our janitors get 12 thousand.

[victor50]

Quote: Dym71

Such salaries are 12-15 sput. and in Tula there is

And in some places in Russia it is a lot of money. Yes, apparently in many places. I personally know 2 who are far from each other.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Mordvin 3

Where? Specifically, I got 17 thousand a month,

At construction sites, I can personally confirm.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Ingvar 72

At construction sites, I can personally confirm.

I wrote about a specific place where I worked instead of Abdullah. Andryukha and I are fellow countrymen, therefore, in principle, the salary should not differ much. But no, as we can see.

[aglet]

"Moreover, the same Tajiks, receiving less than 20 thousand from us, with this money can support a family of 5 people in their Tajikistan and even build a house"
Maybe they, there, in Tajikistan, prices are lower? and life is just cheaper?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: aglet

Maybe they, there, in Tajikistan, prices are lower? and life is just cheaper?

And I wrote.

Quote: Mordvin 3

In googled, 30 bucks utility bills in Tajikistan. Bread - 20 cents, milk - 50.

[Destiny]

When people do not think about how to save every penny, tomorrow there will be work and housing of their own or not, when health care and education will be available to everyone, then the birth rate will be like in the Soviet Union, when people had all this guaranteed by the state. coronavirus ..

[lucul]

When people don’t think about how to save every penny, tomorrow there will be work and housing of their own or not, when health care and education will be available to everyone, then the birth rate will be like in the Union,

Prices, prices, prices are now a new type of population tax. Unsubstantiated pricing makes people impoverished.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Destiny

When people do not think about how to save every penny, tomorrow there will be work and housing of their own or not, when health care and education will be available to everyone, then the birth rate will be like in the Soviet Union, when people had all this guaranteed by the state. coronavirus ..

The coronavirus really has nothing to do with it ...
But about "saving every penny", the question is very difficult. Yes, raising children now is not easy and quite costly. And the state is doing everything to make it even more costly. Mortgages, loans, price tags, tutors, etc. It’s hard for one father to pull 3-4 children for a salary while the mother does the housework. But ... there are other examples here. I know a lot of families where they do not need money very much, do not pay on loans, drive crossovers and relax in the Emirates. And children - one, rarely two. I asked them why they didn’t want a second, and in response they received something like: you need to live for yourself sometime, there is only one life, there is a child, why else and so on ... People are not constrained in means, but children are all- equally no. This is not easy to understand.

[210ox]

This is my situation. Four sons - one is studying at the institute, two are schoolchildren, the eldest is, however, already working independently. Wife at home. So spinning at two jobs. But the salary has not been raised for three years. Why do I need triumphant reports from the government and "done with us" when inflation lowers the standard of living, and there were no jobs, and no.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Destiny

When people don’t think about how to save every penny,

This is yes. And what woman wants to give birth to a child while living in a one-room apartment and realizing that she will never buy a two-room apartment with such a mortgage. Housing, that's the problem of problems. But our statesmen, who have 2-3 apartments of 150-200 sq. each this understanding is not available.
It has been said - well-fed hungry and equestrian on foot ...

[your1970]

Quote: Destiny

everyone, then the birth rate will be like under the Union, when people had all this guaranteed by the state

Yeah ....
Only now, the birth rate in the USSR by the end of the 70s was at the level of 1-2 children in the family ... Not 3 ... About 4 is not even discussed
And the USSR went to average figures in demography exclusively at the expense of Central Asia and the Caucasus.
It was not for nothing that the Order of Maternal Glory was called Gypsy then ...
There was even a film with Gundareva about people with many children - because the problem was already there. The European part of the USSR has practically ceased to multiply.
And the tax on childlessness was not invented by Putin and the oligarchs - the people's USSR. To somehow force the people to multiply ...

[clerk]

And what does the USSR have to do with it, if the birth rate in Russia is at the level of any European country, the USA, Canada, Australia and Japan?

[Finches]

Demography is really a problem for Russia, but we are still reaping the failures of the 90s! Until 2017, there was even a population growth, not large, but it was about 50 people a year, then the economic decline accelerated, largely due to sanctions and the generally unfavorable situation on the world market. Most likely, we will correct the situation with demography for another 000 years, if our "partners" allow us to do this, which is unlikely. Nevertheless, the state program "Demography" is working today, within the framework of which 10 federal projects are being implemented at once:
-Financial support for families at the birth of children
-Promoting the employment of women
-Older generation
- Strengthening public health
- Sport is the norm

The main hope here is to increase the birth rate for maternity capital, but it hurts, here the authorities need the authorities to expand the range of areas for using this money. The Government is doing something, so if earlier this money could only be used for the purchase or construction of housing, now it can be spent on gasification of the home, the mother's funded pension or the education of the child. That is, yelling that everything is gone again, you need to think about what else can be done ... Again, the propaganda of the Western way of life is very hit on young people where it is not very fashionable to give birth to children, but first you need to live for yourself, etc. ... And it's over for the domestic economy! Nevertheless, if someone here hints that it is necessary to destroy everything and lie under the Anglo-Saxons, then they are deeply mistaken - they were lying in the 90s, so the population losses were really terrible numbers!

[aars]

Quote: Finches

-Promoting the employment of women

This increases the independence of women and, accordingly, reduces the birth rate.
As well as the level of education.

[Svarog]

Quote: Finches

Demography is indeed a problem for Russia, but we are still reaping the failures of the 90s

You would have already agreed there among yourself .. otherwise one claims that because of the Second World War

A monstrous failure happened because of the Great Patriotic War, but this was mentioned in passing

In fact, because of the Pechenegs and Polovtsians .... they ran in, exterminated .. so we got echoes of that catastrophe in 2021 .. Only here the Polovtsy and Pechenegs dug in in the government and continue their work.

[Finches]

Who should I negotiate with ?? I wrote about the failure in demography associated with the collapse of the USSR and the catastrophe of the 90s, and the Second World War is a deeper reason and its consequences on our demography are still haunted! And from 2010 to 2018 there was a constant population growth - are the Polovtsians also to blame?

[Svarog]

Quote: Finches

And from 2010 to 2018 there was a constant population growth - are the Polovtsians also to blame?

Where did you see a constant increase ... it was from 2008 to 2017 and is explained by high oil prices and, as a result, the growth in the well-being of citizens, in 2014 this growth slowed down, and in 2016 the population began to get poorer ... nevertheless, many have already decided on the birth of children and in 2017 there was a slight increase.
https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5f8894a29a79475824a27e16
and since the 90s we have been constantly dying out .. and starting from 2021 at an accelerated pace. The government began to overfulfill its plans. That is why they are not fired, and the president is happy with everyone.

[Finches]

The increase was - was! And what does oil prices have to do with it ... And the government and the president, since the women don't want to give birth, and the men can't force them? I have two children, yes, maybe not many, but when my wife and I had them, we had a complete ass with the economy, and we did not pay the salary for half a year ... We lived in the garrison very far from grandparents, in some kind of halabut, where to wash it was necessary to heat the titanium with wood ... So everything is easier, in fact!

[Svarog]

Quote: Finches

The increase was - was! And what does the oil price have to do with it ... And the government and the president, if women don't want to give birth, and men can't force them?

And why then did they give birth at high oil prices? And as soon as the standard of living falls, do they give birth? A woman does not need to be forced, she needs confidence that she will grow and feed.

[Finches]

A woman first of all needs a reliable man, and not knowledge about the fluctuation of the Joe-Jones index on the London Stock Exchange!

[zenion]

The Americans figured out why there is no gain. In Russia, they did not understand and do not want to read what the Americans wrote. Americans have tested their whites and even their African Americans. Up to 40% of white men are unable to have children due to stress. It turned out to be the same story with African Americans. Both of them work and earn good money, but they do not produce normal sperm.

[Finches]

This is all because a lot of attention is paid to the fluctuations of indices on the stock exchange - there is no time for love here!

[lucul]

Where did you see a constant increase ... it was from 2008 to 2017 and is explained by high oil prices and, as a consequence, the growth of the welfare of citizens, in 2014 this growth slowed down, and in 2016 the population began to become poorer ..

Everything is exactly because of the sanctions, but in your opinion, of course, the reason is in the leadership of Russia. I had to go under the Zionists and that's it, right?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Finches

And from 2010 to 2018 there was a constant population growth - are the Polovtsians also to blame?

Crimea was annexed, here's the gain.

[Doccor18]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: Finches

And from 2010 to 2018 there was a constant population growth - are the Polovtsians also to blame?

Crimea was annexed, here's the gain.

Also, the fraternal republics, oh, they support the countries as they can.
They built a factory for the production of dishes in a neighboring city, so only the administration is of Slavic appearance, the rest are all Asian ... And all the citizens of the Russian Federation. Here they have complete order with demographics, at least four children in each family.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Finches

.. and the Second World War is a deeper reason and its consequences on our demography are still haunted!

By the end of the 60s, the country had recovered demographically and showed a significant increase in population, and nothing was going around. The families of the parents had 6 and 8 children each, but unlike RI, in the USSR they all survived, received a decent education and worked for the good of the Motherland.
And over the past 30 "democratic" years, losses are no less than in 4 years of the Great People's ...

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Finches

Who should I negotiate with ?? I wrote about the failure in demography associated with the collapse of the USSR and the catastrophe of the 90s, and the Second World War is more

The author of the article made it clear to you that population growth does not depend on population size. It only depends on fertility. Population growth will only occur when the majority of families will have at least 3 children. And no failures of the 90s and the Second World War have nothing to do with it. Yes, they influenced the population, but not in any way on its growth.
Even if we had 500 million, and women gave birth to one child, then there would be a decrease, not growth.

[lucul]

In fact, because of the Pechenegs and Polovtsians .... they ran in, exterminated .. so we got echoes of that catastrophe in 2021 .. Only here the Polovtsy and Pechenegs dug in in the government and continue their work.

Do you work off all the silver coins?
The decline in the birth rate this year is the first echo of the failure of the 90s, the generation that is supposed to give birth has just grown up, and this generation is only 50% of those born in the 80s. How can they increase the birth rate here? Give birth to 5 children?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: lucul

Give birth to 5 children?

Yes!!! The only way. Mother Nature had no other way.
At least 3 children and then there will already be growth.

[lucul]

Yes!!! The only way. Mother Nature had no other way.
At least 3 children and then there will already be growth

Modern women believe that electricity is taken from the outlet, and the state exists by itself, and that it does not need to be protected. That everything happens by itself, they do not understand how gears work in the state. And they do not see themselves in the role of mothers, do not realize how they can personally help the state for its uninterrupted functioning. And it is necessary to educate them in this, it is urgently necessary.
And then you will see what is going on in the head of the fashionable insta-chickens - the hair on the head rises ...
Where to give birth, she did not educate herself, let alone children.
You know, I have never understood a phrase before when people are asked - What have you achieved in life? They answered with pride - I raised two / three children.
Now understand .....

[Doccor18]

Where to give birth, she did not educate herself, let alone children.

I absolutely agree with this.

[New Year day]

Quote: lucul

Modern women believe that electricity is taken from the outlet

Is it only women?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

And summing up this vinaigrette of various facts and sick fantasies of the guardian, one can safely put phrases - after us, even a flood and either the padishah will die or the donkey.

[Civil]

but we are reaping more failures of the 90s!

The USSR grew from 170 million in 1945 by 1965 to 230 million. For 20 years. Rebuilding the country.

[lucul]

The USSR grew from 170 million in 1945 by 1965 to 230 million. For 20 years.

And how many Russians have grown during this time? After all, the USSR is not only Russia, but also Central Asia - it was due to them that it grew ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: lucul

And how many Russians have grown during this time? After all, the USSR is not only Russia, but also Central Asia - it was due to them that it grew ...

[lucul]

...

From 1950 to 1977 an increase of 30%, 1% per year. The main birth rate under the tsar-father, doubling in 30 years. Then the communists came and broke the house building.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: lucul

The main birth rate under the tsar-father, doubling in 30 years. Then the communists came and broke the house building.

Do you give a monarchy? My grandfathers had 8 children for two, all were born in the post-war period, under Stalin and Khrushchev.

[lucul]

Do you give a monarchy? My grandfathers had 8 children for two, all were born in the post-war period, under Stalin and Khrushchev.

And my grandfather (already a deceased) told me that 16 years old and that's it - they got married / got married. At 33 she is already a grandmother, and at 50 she is already a pro-grandmother. And now they give birth for 30+, that is, the first child is already at the age of a biological grandmother ...

[carstorm 11]

This is a worldwide disaster. Countries with high birth rates always ring their bells too. Even the Scandinavians. People just don't want to reproduce. I have three and my brother is under 40 and has no plans. And such darkness

[lucul]

Even the Scandinavians. People just don't want to reproduce.

Hundreds of billions of dollars were spent on birth control, do you think that the birth rate itself has decreased? ))))

[carstorm 11]

Maybe that is. Here I have no exact information

[lucul]

Maybe that is. Here I have no exact information

Bill Gates and the rest of the Zionists have this phobia number one.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: lucul

Maybe that is. Here I have no exact information

Bill Gates and the rest of the Zionists have this phobia number one.

Zionists have three children per family on average (I have four), but Bill Gates has never been called that

[Krasnodar]

Quote: carstorm 11

This is a worldwide disaster. Countries with high birth rates always ring their bells too. Even the Scandinavians. People just don't want to reproduce. I have three and my brother is under 40 and has no plans. And such darkness

It depends on the person. I have a friend who is a successful businesswoman over 40 years old, she also does not want children, and her brother and sister are 2 and 4, respectively. A matter of priorities.

[carstorm 11]

So that's the point. And what is abusive, the more successful people become, the children retreat to the last plan. I ask my brother, well, there is still .. with my otters you rush about like crazy. How much you indulge in vain. Give yours. Doesn't want to. Why? He doesn't know himself. Just

[Krasnodar]

Not only afraid of responsibility ... of this parenting routine and problems. There is such a thing.

[210ox]

And tell me, who is yelling to lie under the Anglo-Saxons? Criticized by many, I myself absolutely do not like the internal policy of the government and local affairs. But all of us, the overwhelming majority for a Strong Russia. And without shocks. Only here in the government they say one thing, but in reality just the opposite happens. Example? Yes, that's yesterday. How many birds and eggs do we produce? Yes, we have enough, and even for export. But manufacturers are demanding to raise prices. The government says there is no reason to raise it. But the price tag in stores shows something completely different. Especially the egg. For chicken the price of age is 10% in just a week. We live on different planets - government and people.

[Svarog]

Quote: 210ox

Only the government says one thing, but in reality the opposite happens.

How many birds and eggs do we produce? Yes, we have enough and even for export

Probably be surprised, but we are buying broiler eggs in Holland .. this year we were limited in supplies .. but now they began to sell a lot of food to China .. more profitable than our own .. hence the deficit, as a result of the rise in prices and as a result, next year there will be more billionaires ... and again, as a result, fewer of our compatriots.

[lucul]

But manufacturers demand to raise prices

Now look who the producers are, in most cases the owners are foreigners.
But you need to do something with prices - they directly affect the welfare of citizens.

[210ox]

I don’t want to wang, but a situation (inspired of course) may happen like in the late 80s. There is production, but no production. What this led to is not worth reminding.

[lucul]

I don't want to wang, but a situation may happen (inspired of course) like in the late 80s. There is production, but no production

Do you think that bread accidentally disappeared in stores in 1917, with a record grain harvest? Or empty shelves in 1991, appeared by themselves, with a properly working food industry?
No, this is all the result of external influences.

[Ryaruav]

this is the result of internal influence, the party bosses themselves have a deficit and created

[aglet]

"No, this is all the result of external influences."
there and their own well marked. the organized deficit of everything is a direct merit of Gorbachev

[paul3390]

but we are reaping more failures of the 90s!

Ugh, but I was thinking - the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs are to blame .. Well, to the extreme - the Bolsheviks oaths ..

[lucul]

Ugh, but I was thinking - the Polovtsy and the Pechenegs are to blame .. Well, to the extreme - the Bolsheviks oaths ..

You have all the dew of God ...

[andrew42]

What are the "failures of the 90s" in 2021? - This is just a cheap excuse, set the teeth on edge. Well, let's say the 25-30 year old generation is less in number. But what does this have to do with it? Someone forbade them to give birth to 3-4 children in a family? - Not. Why don't they give birth? - Because they have reason, they adequately assess their prospects (the inertia of Soviet education in the post-Soviet period), because they understand what "incomes" to count on at what "expenses." That is why classical families are created less (civil marriage is "safer in battle"), and in young families that have been created there are more than 1 child and it’s scary to think about it, even with feeding from beggarly grandmother’s pensions (whoever has a grandmother, you’ll see a thousand thrown at a granddaughter). Even such a simple pattern plays a role: as long as two live alone, and with their parents as a bonus, each (in most cases) has enough to live on. - As they moved in, the couple began to live (without children!) - the total costs increase by about a third! (on the verge of a family deficit "for two"). Therefore, those who “do not give birth” are just adequate and sober-minded young people, “born in the 90s”. They do not want to produce serfs, whom the oligarchic bourgeois state will condemn to (not) - "a living wage. In fact, there is a most natural War against the indigenous population of Russia. One and a half" cities No. 2 "of a constituent entity of the Federation are killed a year. And this is not Biden doing , no. Not a devil Navalny. Not evil bearded terrorists. This is done by the impudent pyramid of "oligarchs - officials - hucksters", which is the essence of the New Russian Nobility. "Failures of the 90s"? - These are gaps in the conscience of the "Elita". Conscience is "joint knowledge", "message for all" how to live together. This is bad. Very bad. Including the pseudo-intelligentsia, all these "artists / athletes / experts" - Edra's personnel reserve and a couple of fake lightning rods.

[Finches]

"Iita" does not allow you to multiply - poor fellow! You still remember Orwell with sex coupons!

[andrew42]

Zyablitsev, again you got it "into a puddle". I'm fine with reproduction. Three. And I am not the generation of the 90s, but a 50-year-old man with a happy Soviet childhood.

[andrew42]

Zyablitsev, the transition to insult implies a response. The mode of controversy on the resource does not provide such an opportunity. Therefore, "whine like a woman" remains on your conscience. I'm sorry for you. It's just a pity :) And I "whine", or rather I express extreme indignation, because I care how my children will live, and the children of my neighbor, and the children of tens of thousands of Russian citizens (without being limited to the Moscow Ring Road), and who will live and work in our land at all. I don’t think otherwise, because it’s not a “skin”, and not a “hataskraynik”, - God saved me.

[Finches]

Well, forgive me generously, if I offended you with something, but I don’t care what country my children will live in, just because I’m here will smear snot on the parquet, it will not be better! Only I, personally, I am convinced by my own example that the GDP does everything right, makes mistakes and not everything is in its power, but on the whole leads the country in the right direction - someone, perhaps, would have done more in his place, but such a person not visible ... And I know for sure that if I, like a stupid person, walk with flashlights in the evenings, my children will definitely not live better! And yours too!

[210ox]

And who is whining, Eugene? Statement of fact. The government and the people live according to different laws. And this can lead to sad results for the state. If they don't change their minds. Not us, but in the Kremlin and the house on the embankment of the Moscow River. For prices, see above. I understand that they can create a virtual workplace in "made by us". So let them try to really cope with the rise in prices. But of course it is virtually easier.

[Finches]

And what did you want - this is capitalism! And the prices are lifted by hucksters, not Putin, salaries in capitalist firms are paid by hucksters ... Everything is regulated by the fucking market, not the president! Therefore, the huckster brings Tajiks into the janitors and pays them 10 thousand, because a Russian has to pay a minimum of 15 thousand, but a Russian can even send a drink, and a Tajik has nowhere to go ... But women do not give birth, because you see they have no hope for the future , and my grandmother has 5 children, whom she began to give birth to before the war, and then continued! From the incredible prosperity to see ... She taught me, by the way, how to cook quinoa correctly, so as not to get caught ... And now, two cars per family, and children, you see, it's scary! Putin ... they interfere!

[210ox]

Hence the conclusion follows. We live in a social and political formation that is criminal for an ordinary person. Both the president and the government are the guarantors and part of this formation. Although it is in their will to break this vicious circle. You yourself state this.

[Finches]

Yes, I always wrote here that I am a supporter of the socialist path of development, but today the transition to socialism, unfortunately, is not possible, but this does not mean that it is necessary to make a color revolution for the sake of the United States and let go of what has been done down the drain! As in Georgia and Ukraine! What's not clear here!

[lucul]

What are the "failures of the 90s" in 2021? - This is just a cheap excuse, set the teeth on edge.

No need to pretend to be a hose.
If in the 90s there was a decrease in the birth rate by 50%, then 20 years later this generation of the 90s, in order to maintain the birth rate at the same level, must give birth twice as much as the generation of the 80s, and in order to gain a plus, it is necessary to give birth three times more.
But for the adherents of communism it is extremely difficult - it is easier for them when - "it is Putin's fault."

[andrew42]

Of course, this "communist propaganda" prohibits giving birth at 3-4. Communists regularly get into a time machine, fly in the 90s, 2000s, 2010, 2020 - and spoil, spoil the economy, devalue the income of the population, whisper at night to Putin, Medvedev, Mishustin how to introduce new levies and feeders. and from what social functions it is still necessary to free the poor, unfortunate bourgeois "state".

[lucul]

Of course, this "communist propaganda" prohibits giving birth at 3-4.

Freedom of the press, the Internet regularly instill BODY CULT in women, just like SELFISH. “I should live only for myself” and “I don't owe anything to anyone” are the main imposed trends.

[andrew42]

Are women to blame? - This is generally from another "opera". From physiology to psychology, the Woman is responsible for the "inner perimeter" of the family, and the happy Husband should work on the "construction sites" for a decent salary to support the family. For socialization, let's say part-time work for our dear halves, no more. Well, for exceptions, for "boys in skirts", you can at least provide a way into space. The state at all times is an Agreement of Men "not to shoot at each other, at least, at the most, in different ways ..." "public works". This is often used by the "pivotal elements" of the economic structure - women can be paid less and, accordingly, the pay for men can be reduced (an analogy with migrant workers), de facto women are easier to exploit, the turnover of female personnel does not particularly bother anyone (modern management, instead of a couple of specialist men hire 4 young ladies for 15 tyrs, and change them like gloves once a year and a half). As for "I owe no one to anyone" and "I must live only for myself" - this is a CONSEQUENCE of the above, PLUS the fruits of the lack of men (including male upbringing and example) in the post-war period, when a huge burden fell on Soviet women in the public production, and already their daughters developed this psychotype of behavior, then more. But this is not a fault, but a disaster. and it is quite fixable in a couple of generations, subject to the socialist path of development of our society. Women's behavior is not an excuse for Putin's power at all. Found the culprit! - apparently, Navalny's jug shows the bottom.

[lucul]

But this is not a fault, but a disaster.

You put the cart in front of the horse, or rather confuse the effect with the cause.

[andrew42]

The horse is in place, the cart is behind.

[lucul]

The horse is in place, the cart is behind.

You can count as you like - reality will not change from this - it is always one. And the winner is the one who more clearly represents reality.

[andrew42]

Do you want reality? - I haven't talked about reality yet. The above was just an analysis of the reasons that lie, as they say, on the surface. About Reality - I have them! Families up to 35 years old are divorced in large numbers because of the IMPOSSIBILITY TO MAINTAIN A FAMILY even with one small child! Naturally, a woman most often initiates such a divorce - this is a natural instinct, as they say, "you can't drink it." According to judicial case law, a child in 99,9% of cases stays with his mother (even if she thumps to blue, judges and guardians are fick, but this is the third story). Well, and further simple logic - will the lonely mother still give birth? - Of course not. Finish! Curtain.

[your1970]

Quote: andrew42

Families up to 35 years old are divorced in large numbers because of the IMPOSSIBILITY TO MAINTAIN A FAMILY even with one small child!

That is, the grandfathers on the swan could support their families during the war - and the current ones can not be without ham and cucumbers in January?

[andrew42]

Start with yourself about the quinoa. Do not confuse grandfathers! - Good luck in asceticism. But consider your own words "grandfathers in the war": (4,5 years + 2,5 years of recovery) = 7 years. Modern genocide has turned 30!

[your1970]

And you boldly went to war with 23 pre-war ones, and from 15 post-war ones, add it to begin with ... Somewhere around 60, it began to more or less stabilize and improve
2,5 years recovery, yeah ...
We began to make large windows only by the 1960s in the villages. And before that glass could not be reached at all - can you imagine windows with A4? And we did not have a war ... But there was a need ...

[2 Level Advisor]

In the war and after the war .. it played a role that everyone around was on the swan and understanding why, and now there is too much difference between the poor and the rich, the poor want to become richer and understand that having given birth to even 2 children is most likely the way to a better life closing .. therefore it is incorrect to recall those times .. now in the world success is the amount of money .. which is stupid, but true ..

[your1970]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

there is a big difference between the poor and the rich, the poor want to become richer and understand that having given birth to even 2 children, most likely the path to a better life is closed

Here are the Finns for example .. Gap
there is no mad income in the strata, they live well, stability, salaries are not bad, there are not many migrants from Africa ...
And children - 1,4 .....
Does Putin also prevent them from multiplying? Or the difference in income with the oligarchs?
Everything is simple to madness
- poverty and the need for working hands for the family to survive - there will be 10 children easily.
- if there is a choice between going to Turkey / changing the car - there will be one child, maximum 2 .. well, they do not breed well-fed people - there is no incentive.
Do you know at least one oligarch who would have 5 children? Do they also lack money?

Z. Y. Scientists have long ago confirmed this on rats - a well-fed flock on a regular basis degenerates to zero in just 6 generations. Why run and fuss - food in bulk. ....

[2 Level Advisor]

You Sergei, the satiety of the Finns and Russians shouldn’t be put next to us .. before they are satiated like cancer (freshwater) to China .. there is still another reason .. that we are not Finns or Eritreans .. we are definitely not dying of satiety, although and do not starve .. yet ..

[vindigo]

I'm curious. Does one woman find it easier to support a child without a husband?

[Overlock]

Quote: vindigo

Does one woman find it easier to support a child without a husband?

Just like one man without a wife

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: lucul

No need to pretend to be a hose.

Population growth is not influenced by the birth rate ever, but by the birth rate right now. Let us have at least 500 million people, but one or even two children in a family, there will still be a DECLINE in the population! Is it really that hard to understand? And if we have 50 million, but each family has 3 children, then there will be GROWTH!

[Kronos]

It will be exactly the same as with the May decrees.

[Kart]

Quote: Finches

That is, yelling that everything is gone again, you need to think about what else you can do ...

So their only passionate desire to do is to destroy it all.
Well, if so, then you need to somehow convince yourself so that the lower brain does not burst?
So they howl incessantly - everything is gone!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

in the 90s they were, so the population losses were really terrible numbers!

And what did you see there? So information for. Last year, mortality was 2.124 million. And in the 90s, only three years were worse in mortality. 1994 - 2.2 million, 1995 - 2,3 million, and 1999 - 2 million. And exactly the same year 15. With which the difference is only 1993 thousand. And in 5, 1992, 1996 and 1997, the mortality rate was much better than now. Well, if you deduce the arithmetic mean for the 1998s ... The mortality rate is 90 per year, which is better than 2,006, and the birth rate is 2020, which is worse than 1.346, the average minus will be 2020 thousand per year. Which is generally better than 660. So ... Don't talk about scary. The last year, in terms of demographics, turned out to be worse than the 2020s. The bottom is broken, once again.

[Finches]

I'm talking about the absolute loss of life in the 90s, hunger, disease, military conflicts, gang warfare, emigration ... All this today minus one or two children! Because the youngest were leaving, young boys were dying, those who had not had time to do anything ... The bottom was punched out by the omnipresence - that's for sure!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Finches

All this today minus one or two children!

Don't you understand? If it weren't

Quote: Finches

hunger, disease, military conflicts,

and children in families of 1-2 children, it would still be a decrease in relation to the number at that time. Mom and dad died leaving 1 child - here's your decline. Mom and dad died leaving two children - the population remained the same. Mom and dad died leaving behind three children, here's an increase in the number of one person!

[lucul]

And in 1992, 1996, 1997 and 1998, mortality rates were much better than now.

Then another generation of the 80s gave birth.
And in the 90s, I don't believe in statistics at all. In front of my eyes, the kindergartens were closed in packs, in BUNDLES, because there were no children. And now they have entered childbearing age - and in order to maintain the birth rate at the same level, they now need to give birth twice as much.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: lucul

childbearing age - and in order to maintain the birth rate at the same level, they need to give birth now twice as much.

Woe from the mind.

[lucul]

Woe from the mind.

And in your version - Putin is to blame, right? ))))

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: lucul

And in your version - Putin is to blame, right? ))))

This is not the point. The point is in the socio-political formation. Putin is only acting in this formation. To him - a step to the left, a step to the right - the shooting on the spot.
There are many reasons for the low birth rate. This is housing, who wants to give birth while living in a one-room apartment? Imagine how many families live in rented apartments? This is the fear of being left without work for at least one of the spouses, and low salaries. And, why should I live worse than, narek, and I will live worse if I give birth.
And, to sum up all that has been said, then - uncertainty about the future for most families.
I do not believe that Putin does not want his fellow citizens to live well. But, not everything is in his power. The interests of capital are closer to him, because it was capital that made him president.

[lucul]

And, to sum up all that has been said, then - uncertainty about the future for most families.

Nonsense is only a matter of a woman's personal egoism, and the fear of losing attractiveness after childbirth. Previously, this selfishness was suppressed by religion, but now all prohibitions have been lifted.

There are many reasons for the low birth rate. This is housing, who wants to give birth while living in a one-room apartment

Nonsense. In Africa, countries are doubling their population in total poverty, although, according to your logic, they should die out (it's about poverty, right?)
Everything depends on the worldview / religion. It's about heads, not material wealth.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: lucul

Everything depends on the worldview / religion. It's about heads, not material wealth.

Well, of course in their heads. An African woman doesn't know there is a better life. On the contrary, she gives birth so as not to die of hunger in old age - children will not give. Children are her insurance. And we have? And we have an understanding that there will be a pension, i.e. hunger is not afraid. And children today are a burden and material costs. Who is "on TV" today? Working mothers of three children? Not at all. Artists with three or four marriages and one, at best, a child. They are heroines today. Young people look up to them.
So, yes, in their heads. But how to make a person voluntarily make his life worse in the material sense? Is there one child for the delight of the soul? There is. And second? But this is no longer a delight - a burden. That's the whole trick.
There is only one way out - to remove pensions. And they will immediately begin to give birth. In the hope that children will provide them with life in old age. Or hand over the keys to the apartment at the birth of a child: 1 child - three-room, 2 children (different sexes) - four-room, etc.

[lucul]

So, yes, in their heads. But how to make a person voluntarily make his life worse in the material sense?

War, but war is not somewhere in the backyard of the empire, but universal, in the heart of the state. Only it clears the brain of propaganda and manipulation and makes us choose only the only correct decisions in our life. The war generally cuts off everything unnecessary.
We have not fought for too long, hence the depravity in the head in everything.
Something like this - any double-edged sword ...

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Svarog

The answer is even simpler - they lie .. they constantly lie.

Why constantly? Remember one figure announced that 25 years ago - well, thirty million will die out. They didn't fit into the market. After all, I did not lie a bit, it’s just a little longer. No wonder a respected person. An order from our guarantor, a warm place. For deserved. . Cassander however.

[Svarog]

Quote: Lannan Shi

After all, I did not lie a bit, it’s just a little longer.

If you count from the 90s, then much more than 30 ml has already died out.

[lucul]

If you count from the 90s, then much more than 30 ml has already died out.

As Churchill said - "if the state chooses shame between war and shame, then it will receive both war and shame."
The communists chose shame (the collapse of the USSR), as a result they received war and shame, and such losses for the country, in comparison with which the war would lead to less consequences.
The communists simply withdrew, like the government in 1991, leaving the people to their fate.

[paul3390]

Supermortality is a consequence of Putin's type of healthcare optimization. When, at the first stress in the form of an epidemic, they stopped providing current assistance to those in need. For - they simply did not have enough resources. Beds, doctors, medicines. Do you remember how an adored guarantor about 5 years ago squealed that this was a disgrace and a heavy legacy of the accursed Soviet past - such as an excess bed capacity and unnecessary doctors, like infectious disease specialists? Now we are raking in full .. But one hell - there are characters who continue to strenuously drown for him !! Darkness..

[Finches]

And most of them in Russia! I understand that this realization makes you feel uneasy, but what to do is a fact!

[paul3390]

And most of them in Russia!

What is the truth ?? Is that the majority? Here's another look at at least a couple live ... And then you won’t ask who, even at work, even on the street in line - only one mat is worth .. Nonecha forbidden by the wise men from the thought .. Apparently - this is some kind of crypto-majority ...

[Finches]

Ah! All the same, Churkin draws ratings ... But in my military collective, and even now I am in them a lot, can you imagine, the majority is FOR! Look, I'm in favor, my wife ... How strange it is!

[paul3390]

Nevertheless, Churkin draws ratings.

Woo ... Finally, we started to understand .. It's good.

The stump is clear - warriors and policemen for !! Or will you also be given a pension from 65? Or maybe you lost your job due to covid restrictions? Was the salary cut in half? Refused to treat in a military hospital? Also no? You see - you have something to be unhappy with Putin. He is still holding on to people like you ..

But you see - Russia is not only a power bloc. Not only that. It's a shame you don't want to realize this ..

[Finches]

I have a lot of friends who are absolutely civilians! So no need to juggle! There are those who are against, there are those FOR, those who are FOR today the majority ... Just don't make a tragedy out of this!

[paul3390]

Ehe-he ... But is it really a tragedy ... Tragedy is what they do to the country ..
And do not console yourself, shish you - not the Putin majority. Better look at the degree of approval of Comrade Stalin and the Soviet Union. But they are direct antagonists of the current government ..

Putin - so far only holds that there is no alternative. For all the others, like the opposition, are even nastier. But this - I hope you understand, cannot last long ..

[Finches]

Well, there is no alternative! And then why bother then ???

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

Well, there is no alternative! And then why bother then ???

In 1900, there was no alternative either. For if not HE, then who? Remind me what the cost of having no alternative to the country?

[Finches]

For 1900, I can't say anything, alas! What are your specific suggestions?

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

What are your specific suggestions?

Already more than once, and not even 20 wrote. Follow the laws clearly. When next to each other, on some bunks, sit down and the bulk, who stole 20 million rubles, and Potanin stole 10 billion rubles, and Mr. Putin, under the cameras, declared that it is possible to steal Potanin. Plus the adjustment of legislation, at least to the average world capitalist level. So that it is not so that the liberal creep buffet, unfastens almost 40% on his state, and the patriotic hero Rotenberg 15.
This is not the first time I write in Russian in black. Personally, I don't have enough finances to have a third child. What did the government, the guarantor and the Duma put their clumsy paws on?

[Finches]

How to do it in practice?

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

How to do it in practice?

On practice?

The text of the Oath of an employee of the internal affairs bodies of the Russian Federation:
"I, (surname, name, patronymic), entering the service of the internal affairs bodies, solemnly swear allegiance The Russian Federation and its people!
I swear in the exercise of the powers of an employee of the internal affairs bodies:
respect and protect the rights and freedoms of man and citizen, observe the Constitution of the Russian Federation and federal laws;
be courageous, honest and vigilant, do not spare your forces in the fight against crime;

How many times I repeat. Follow the laws clearly. Including remember that the oath, even in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, even in the army, is not taken to Messrs. Putin, Shoigu and others, but of Russia... And when / if they give criminal orders, they are not guarantors and ministers, but criminals. Nothing complicated right? Just do your duty, and obey the law and not a person, even if he throws a fat piece. Challenge?

[Finches]

And today you want to say to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Army, the Investigative Committee, etc. there are no honest, living by the law and doing their duty, is it? That is, everyone who took the Oath serves exclusively Putin and Shoigu, but not Russia ... You are dashing!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

That is, everyone who took the Oath serves exclusively Putin and Shoigu, but not Russia ...

My dear ... I remember the speech of our guarantor, from him - there will be no revision of the results of privatization. I mean, don't touch the thieves. And I can see how the police, the prosecutor's office, and the FSB have caved in under the criminal order. Excuse me generously, but I personally witness the violation of the oath. And 100% of the policemen and others violated it, or only 50 ... When the SS were declared a criminal organization, they also looked at the organization as a whole, and did not sort out personal files, until the last obershutze. But in general? Well, perhaps the least of all questions are for the army, but the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the prosecutor’s office are definitely not serving Russia.

[Finches]

Then I will repeat the question - what should be done in practice? The FSB, Rosgvardia, the police are, in your words, the Russian SS, protecting only the elite Partyigenosse ... How and by what means are you going to bring your wonderful plans to life?

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

How and by what means are you going to bring your wonderful plans to life?

I have? Plans? Facilities? You have come to the wrong address.
I told you how it should be. When the law enforcers take a naughty bureaucrat by the scruff of his neck, and begin to ask, what are you doing, brother. Alas and ah. But, honor and conscience have replaced the wallet for many, if not most of them. That is why Russia will either follow the path of kipesh, the degree of grandeur and the results of which I personally will not undertake to predict, or along the path of slow degradation. Both options are deeply not pleasant to me, but ...

[Finches]

It's always like this with us - everyone knows how it should be, but few can do it! I don't know how to build a house, so I don't criticize the builder - I don't like the way he builds, go learn and build yourself!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

If I don't know how to build a house, I don't criticize the builder

Honey, it is not necessary to be a 6th grade flusher, and to know 333 shades of shit color, and 444 nuances of its smell, in order to distinguish strawberry jam from that very substance. And I would like to note. That the country is run by the same amateurs as me. None of them has a red diploma, with a record - a president of the highest qualifications, or - a general minister. Our guarantor is a lawyer, the prime minister is a mixture of a draftsman with a programmer, the Ministry of Internal Affairs is the driver of the defrocked political instructor, the Ministry of Internal Affairs is a builder with a penchant for hereditary work in the CPSU apparatus, transport is a mathematical lawyer, the Ministry of Labor is a stock speculator, energy is a metallurgist, ecology is a miner. I am honestly and frankly surprised that finances are managed by a financier, not a veterinarian, and education is a teacher, not a taxi driver. So ... Let's not know how, does not know how. Okay? And judging by the results of the work, at least a third of the ministers can be changed to guest workers recruited from the nearest construction site, and we will not see any particular deterioration.
PS
And do not dissemble about criticizing / not criticizing. I have met one of my colleagues - road workers on the website, and every second person will not be able to resist speaking on occasion. Some kind of selectivity, however. We criticize this, we do not criticize ... It is not good.

[Finches]

"Laponka", you will address your husband like that, if you have one, of course! If you do not understand anything about the state structure, then it is better to go to the kitchen, cook borscht - in this I hope you will give a head start to GDP! Just being dissatisfied with everyone and everything - you don't need a lot of mind and say banal things about every person fulfilling his duty and living according to the law, but how can this be achieved in practice? You need to start with yourself, first of all, and then decide whether you have a moral right to teach the life of others or not!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

"Laponka", you will address your husband this way

See a violation of the site rules? There is a button - a complaint. And within the framework of the rules, I myself will figure out who, and how to contact.

Quote: Finches

do you have a moral right to teach the life of others or not!

Well, they wrote out this right for themselves. Modesty is off the charts.

[Finches]

So try to be easier on the turns! Your modesty is no less off scale, since you are sure of how to govern the state correctly!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

just sure how to manage the state correctly!

You don't have to be a Doctor of Mathematics to figure out the obvious. With a median of 35, half of the country cannot afford even 2 children. For 35 + 35- personal income tax = 60,9, and four people will not be enough for food and a communal apartment. And you can even use money for gasification, or even retire, if there is nothing to feed the child today, from the pension in 30 years, it will not be easier for you. And it is more than obvious that as long as there is no opportunity to feed 2 children, only openly asocial personalities will give birth to this second one. If the government is not capable of mathematical actions, at the 6th grade level, then how can it govern the country? If it is capable of the simplest mathematical actions, and understands the situation, then the situation just suits it. And then it is stupidly impossible to allow him to manage anything in Russia. And the third option is simply not given. And no fairy tales, oh right / wrong. Everything is as simple as two and two. Either finances are redistributed in favor of the poor, and the population at least does not decrease, or everything remains as it is now, and the country is dying out. And the third, again, is not given. And all this is available to any person, even with an incomplete average.

[Finches]

My grandmother (I already wrote here), without any mathematical calculation, two before the war, three after she gave birth ... During the war, there was no time for that! But, probably, the tyrant Stalin forced to give birth in such a difficult time for the country ... And now the XXI century, you need to accurately calculate whether there is enough for an iPhone for a child, for other gadgets, for diapers, for a separate room and also for a nurse, when mommy there will be a revelry at restaurants ... I am exaggerating, of course, but be honest, modern women have too high demands, this is not bad, but not good either ... only Putin has to do with it !? And in Tajikistan, everything is fine with children - probably there is a material paradise - they can afford it!

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Finches

I have a grandmother

And you have 500 times great-grandfather, with a bare bottom running through the jungle. In search of liana fatter, and fatter worm. But his girlfriend, starting to sleep with him at the age of 10, and giving birth every 2 years, by the age of thirty provided him with a dozen children. And follow the example of your great-grandfather 500 times, you had 30 children by 10, by 50 100 grandchildren, and by 70 1000 great-grandchildren. And after 3 generations, your family alone would solve the demographic problem of the whole country. However, you are not fruitful under the tree, but philosophize on VO. And since you yourself do not follow the example of your ancestors, then you do not need to cite them as an example to others.

Quote: Finches

but be honest, modern women have too high demands

Remove rollers and sports cars from the roads. From the berths of a boat, worth a median salary for 100 years. Stores where kg of cheese costs as a minimum salary, and pants as the same minimum salary, but for six months. From suburban settlements, mansions for which 100 people will earn 100 years. And I do not intend to explain to my children why that uncle over there clogs the trunk with caviar and mango, and they will have macaroons for dinner, with a sauce of macaroons. And why this uncle has a doghouse bigger than their room for five. It is easy to limit consumption when everyone is the same. And when some children get a jamon sandwich with caviar, and others from bread and bread, then in a generation you will have animals. Some are arrogant and snickering, while others are wild and angry. Ready for a piece of that same jamon to tear into shreds. And break not in a figurative sense of the word. Well, that is, get what we see outside the window.

Quote: Finches

and Putin has absolutely nothing to do with it!

No damn. This is what I have to do with it. It was I who built a society with a monstrous income gap, when half of the country is forced to limit itself to one child, or have a second, switching to a diet of bread and bread. Again. Median -30,450. If clean. If 3 people can live poorly, poorly, then for four it is only for food. And walking naked in Russia is a bit uncomfortable. And "support demographics" is not an idea people are willing to starve for. And even more so when workers are invited to starve, and the elite are not ready to sacrifice a penny for the sake of this idea. And the appeals in style - you, starve, but be fruitful, for the good of the country, and I'm here while filling the pool with champagne, otherwise the lyadi will soon arrive, and the friend of his mongrels is bringing his mongrels to the landon ... For some reason, the people do not cause enthusiasm. Real leaders do not call, they lead by example. Ours .... But ours set an example that an iPhone, a suit and a yacht are of paramount importance. And the rest should be scored.

[Civil]

Lannan Shi
Yesterday, 23: 07

I hope you understand who you are discussing with?

[andrew42]

Really with Himself? :)) Ah yes our Harun, ah yes Rashid.

[aglet]

"Real leaders do not call, they lead by example."
standing ovation !!!

[New Year day]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Real leaders do not call, they lead by example.

well said! Knockout!

[Mordvin 3]

Zyablitsev, take away from your half an iPhone, a computer, a car, make it use straw instead of pads, wash your grandchildren's diapers, use burdocks in the outhouse, or put your shoes on the Rural Life newspaper, and we'll see what she does with you later. Just hide the pans first, otherwise self-mutilation is likely to occur.

[Finches]

And you don't need to juggle! That you are telling me all sorts of nonsense, hear yourself - if you go down to the form, you say - today we will remove Putin, and tomorrow everyone will begin to multiply like rabbits, because by obedience to a magic wand we will become rich, like Croesus - and everything - from a small child up to great, while doing nothing! When I ask a simple question, how to do it in practice, I hear some kind of childish nonsense - everyone needs to live according to the law!

[New Year day]

Quote: Finches

When I ask a simple question, how to do it in practice

to liquidate the system that Putin created - you are already afraid only from this

[Overlock]

Quote: Finches

today we will remove Putin, and tomorrow everyone will start multiplying like rabbits

How did Putin increase the birth rate? If not raised, then you need a young, capable of it

[andrew42]

Lannan Shi, five points, and again 5 points! This is a knockdown. Indeed, it is not mathematics, but Arithmetic (!) That smashes the positions of the Zaputin praises and justifiers to pieces. Therefore, our ministers and their "advocacy" are so fond of charts in PERCENTAGE (apparently, a usurious archetype), they are not at all willing to squeeze out absolute numbers, they juggle units of measurement cheatingly, and they absolutely do not want to enter even pairs of values ​​for setting the inequality sign.

[your1970]

Quote: andrew42

Indeed, it is not mathematics, but Arithmetic (!) That smashes the positions of the Zaputin praises and justifiers to pieces.

Quote: Mordvin 3

Zyablitsev, take away from your half an iPhone, a computer, a car, make it instead of laying straw

In Switzerland and Sweden, too, apparently, the income gap does not give birth?
Quite enough of that fact, not only we do not give birth. Do not give birth everywhere in Europe. Urbanization...
There is an increase due to migrants, no more ...

[andrew42]

I suggest you deal with the leadership of these states - Switzerland and Sweden. Since this is so important to you. And we are interested in Russia.

[your1970]

Quote: andrew42

I suggest you deal with the leadership of these states - Switzerland and Sweden. Since this is so important to you. And we are interested in Russia.

In this case, the situation in these countries is absolutely identical with ours. The population does not want to give birth - regardless of the income gap and the presence / absence of large salaries ...

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: your1970

In Switzerland and Sweden, there is also a gap in income

main demographic indicators of Switzerland for 2020:
Born: 88 301 people
Deceased: 69

Up to our -0.5% of the population per year, the Swiss oh how far, plus they still have. But in general, yes. The material issue weighs on them too. Not as frankly as ours, when three live at the very least, and four will already starve, but still, all the same. To live in a hut, but a large and friendly family, and they don't have very many people willing. The capitalist system is geared towards squeezing the juices out of the nation, and its degradation in general. For the prosperity of individuals, not the entire population. And without powerful social support, a la the same Sweden and the United States, degradation is the essence of the norm.And how exactly it will be expressed, by a decrease in numbers, in more or less literate countries, or by physical degeneration, where it is fashionable to give birth, not thinking about what to feed will be, these are small details. And by the way. The population of poverty-stricken Sweden also demonstrates a natural increase, and even, that's the problem, a higher birth rate than Russia.

[your1970]

Quote: Lannan Shi

even, that's the problem, a higher birth rate than Russia.

Simply because one born there becomes a Swedish citizen. African migrants, why are they there ... They can double the figure ...
The locals are really very unhappy and even burn the hostels of refugees who raise the birth rate ...

[Rita Aletdinova 1999]

Why is this nonsense? Thugs are burning, not citizens. In Russia, in the end, there is also an increase at the expense of Muslims. Thank them for that. Otherwise, the population of Russia would be less than one hundred million now!

[Overlock]

Quote: your1970

In Switzerland and Sweden, too, apparently, the income gap does not give birth?

Here's the deal! How to compare salaries, so comparison with Africa, as fertility, so with Europe.

[your1970]

Quote: Overlock

Quote: your1970

In Switzerland and Sweden, too, apparently, the income gap does not give birth?

Here's the deal! How to compare salaries, so comparison with Africa, as fertility, so with Europe.

Naturally!! It's just that if there is nothing to eat, 3 were sent to beg, one street for revenge, 2 to steal, daughters to a brothel, and the smartest one to school so that later he would feed the whole family ... ...
This is how Africa and Africa live. They survive due to the large number of workers in the family.
And we already have questions - vitamins, a section, education, an iPhone for kids. And this is expensive .. Just like in Europe. We do not multiply - for the same reasons as Europe ... Although our incomes are less than in Europe, the reasons are the same

[aglet]

"Just to be dissatisfied with everyone and everything - you don't need a lot of mind and say banal things about every person fulfilling his duty and living according to the law, but how to achieve this in practice? You need to start with yourself, first of all"
this is, specifically, a proposal to the president and the government. only they can change something if they start with themselves. neither me nor you nor dear
Lannan Shi, no matter how stubbornly we start “with ourselves,” absolutely nothing can be done. so it remains just to be dissatisfied. but you are not like that? you started with yourself, changed everything, and now you are happy with everything. and you, and your wife, for
"banal things about every person fulfilling his duty and living by the law"
but these banal things are written in laws, constitutions, and even in an oath, which is not a law. It means that all those who do not fulfill their duty, their professional duties, an oath on the constitution with a large crowd of people, are criminals, traitors to the interests of the people and the country, and should be punished to the fullest extent of the laws, oaths and oaths they violate. that's where, and not "from yourself" you need to start in order to get out of this protracted dive. there are not enough meters left to the ground, we may not be in time, to the delight of enemies

[andrew42]

Zyablitsev, I am plagued by vague doubts. You, just like that, simply reproach a woman for not being able to defeat "the whole royal army." And the language does not reduce. How old are you, dear - ??? If conspiracy, you can not be sure. Plus or minus 3 is fine. And then some kind of boyhood blows. And here we are crucifying, tearing the vest, you know ..

[Finches]

And what did they want to say, what? Essentially? The problem of demography is not a problem of the state - it is exclusively a problem of men and women! Another thing is that a normal state is interested in having children, and our state is making efforts! But, after all, a person needs more - they say, give me 10 million just like that - then I might give birth, .... Somewhere like that, right? And if you don’t give it, then it’s a bad state, worthless, here America is yesaaaa!

[RitaNik]

Quote: Finches

And what did they want to say, what? Essentially? The problem of demography is not a problem of the state - it is exclusively a problem of men and women! Another thing is that a normal state is interested in having children, and our state is making efforts! But, after all, a person needs more - they say, give me 10 million just like that - then I might give birth, .... Somewhere like that, right? And if you don’t give it, then it’s a bad state, worthless, here America is yesaaaa!

Well, you, apparently, take African countries as an ideal: the population is poor, the birth rate is high, for example, Eritrea is an authoritarian regime, a one-party system.

[Finches]

I live a real life, not fantasies and bawling!

[RitaNik]

Quote: Finches

I live a real life, not fantasies and bawling!

In reality, you live in a degrading state, but personally, your own position in it suits you. And most of the population is not.

[Overlock]

If a person lives

Quote: RitaNik

.. in a degrading state

and everything suits him, then who is he then?

[aglet]

"Well, you, apparently, take African countries for the ideal"
you know, it was good. at least in Angola, the minimum wage is higher than in the Russian Federation

[andrew42]

This America was given to you! At home, you need to understand, and not nod over the hill. However, the device is familiar, all the first TV channels are jammed with it. But I am in the last place interested in "how they have it."

[Finches]

So I will also answer you, live here a real life, and not fantasies and bawling!

[aglet]

"A normal state is interested in having children, and our state is making efforts!"
what kind of efforts is our state making? collapse of medicine, education, constant and unrestrained rise in prices for everything, work for a beggarly salary, lack of work? yes, it succeeded in that. the only pity is that such measures do not contribute to the improvement of demographics. and do not tell me about sweden and monaco, they deeply side with me. in our (still) country, all these troubles come from the poverty of the people. those you are talking about here, who stuff the trunks of Rolls-Royces with caviar and jamon, and on the Canary Islands, so as not to give birth, a few units and they cannot influence the statistics on a national scale. but those who simply cannot feed the second or third child, and understand this, there are much more of them

[New Year day]

Quote: Finches

a normal state is interested in having children, and our state is making efforts!

give examples ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: andrew42

If it is a conspiracy, you may not be sure. Plus or minus 3 is fine.

This pensioner is about your age.

[Finches]

It’s easy to count, if you can retire at 45, but I’m like 2 years on it, well, plus 3, minus 3, but why?

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Finches

well, plus 3, minus 3, but why?

It's just that, as a rule, it is easiest for peers to understand each other, because they grew up in approximately the same conditions, listened to the same music, watched the same films and played the same games ... And if, For example, if I start communicating with a 20-year-old, he simply won't understand what it means to serve a can with beer, or what figures need to be smashed with a city bat.

[Finches]

Here you are absolutely right! But, somehow it does not always work out - it seems to be the same age, or whether he lived in different conditions, or from nature he was so original ... (just kidding) However, as a military commissar at 18 years old, I myself was In fact, he spent all his glorious and active years - also his own world!

[Overlock]

Quote: Finches

The FSB, Rosgvardia, the police are, in your words, the Russian SS, protecting only the elite Partyigenosse ...

It has long been known what news there is!

[your1970]

Quote: Lannan Shi

And I can see how the police, the prosecutor's office, and the FSB have caved in under a criminal order. Excuse me generously, but I personally witness the violation of the oath. And 100% of the police and others violated it, or only 50 ...

Based on YOUR position, the CPSU, the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the SA caved in under the criminal order and violated the oath to the Motherland - Did they not defend the USSR?

[aglet]

"Based on YOUR position, the CPSU, the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the SA caved in under the criminal order and violated the oath to the Motherland - Didn't you defend the USSR?"
and what, protected? faster than their own squeal, they tore party cards, tore off shoulder straps and ran into business in order to catch a piece, to take a place at the trough. or was it wrong, and I forgot something?

[New Year day]

Quote: your1970

Based on YOUR position, the CPSU, the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the SA caved in under the criminal order and violated the oath to the Motherland - Did they not defend the USSR?

Isn’t that so?

[Overlock]

Quote: Finches

And today you want to say to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Army, the Investigative Committee, etc. there are no honest, living by the law and doing their duty, is it?

It turns out like this. If they found a castle for a billion at Kolokoltsev, then Colonel Zakharchenko did not disgrace his native ministry

[lucul]

In 1900, there was no alternative either. For if not HE, then who? Remind me what the cost of having no alternative to the country?

Like little children.
Since 1860, who regularly blew up kings? More than half a century, so much so that no counterintelligence could do anything about it. This is where there was pure interference in the internal affairs of the state.
If even the king could not provide protection for himself, then who could? That's right - it was those who blew up the kings and came to power in 1917.

[paul3390]

Do you seriously think that it will always be this way? And Putin is something like Duncan Macleod?

[Finches]

I do not consider anything, but while the legs are worn and the head is cooking - let it rule!

[New Year day]

Quote: Finches

but while the legs are worn and the head is cooking

with this problem, there is no result. Where is the performing discipline of his team? - And HIM suits

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: paul3390

Do you seriously think that it will always be this way? And Putin is something like Duncan Macleod?

Yes, sometimes there is a feeling that he will not be left behind even after death. They will embalm, stick to the chair, and continue to scream - there is no alternative, if not HE, then who.

[andrew42]

I have long suspected that papier-mâché is prepared.

[New Year day]

Quote: Finches

Ah! Nevertheless, Churkin draws ratings ...

ratings as well as elections - sleight of hand and posing the question

[Kart]

Quote: paul3390

What is the truth ?? Is that the majority? belay I would like to see at least a couple of them live ... And then you won’t ask whom, even at work, even in the street in line - there is only one mat .. Nonecha forbidden by the wise men from the thought .. Apparently - this is some kind of crypto majority .. ...

Of course not, take it easy.
There are certainly more of your destroyers.
Just don't get out of the Internet.

[paul3390]

We will not get out, do not worry. So far - from the Internet. And then we'll see. But we are also not going to calm down until we return the Soviet power ... Otherwise, you and others like you, you will finally miss everything. This is what they have been doing for all 30 years. And if it were not for the powerful legacy of the great Soviet Union, they would have finally finished off Russia ...

[Aerodrome]

Last year, Russia lost half a million people. There has not been such a shocking decline in population for 15 years.

over the past 20 years, the population has declined by 35 million people. https://www.opentown.org/news/96212

[The leader of the Redskins]

Personally, I, no matter how pretentious it sounds, did everything I could.
I have both a son and a daughter. More, alas, material resources do not allow. I try to bring these two into people. Not hungry, dressed, studying.
If there was an opportunity, they would have given birth to a third person, but ... The feeling that the country and the government do not need young people, and, consequently, soldiers and workers. The ones that descend from decrees and government reforms.

[Lannan Shi]

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

The feeling that the country and the government do not need youth,

And this is not a feeling, it is a fact. Why is she needed then? 20-25 years to spend resources when you can take and open doors wide open. For Uzbeks and Tajiks. Solid profit

[lucul]

And this is not a feeling, it is a fact. Why is she needed then? 20-25 years to spend resources,

Indeed - and why give birth if the figure deteriorates and you won't make such an impression, that is, you will lose in value. The main thing is to live for yourself, beloved, and then the children, somehow .... yes?

[2 Level Advisor]

and then why give birth to the first? from him the figure does not deteriorate? but almost most ladies have one by the age of 30 ..

[lucul]

and then why give birth to the first? from him the figure does not deteriorate? but one that almost most ladies have by 30

Well yo mayo, you are like little children - but how can you keep a potential peasant? ))))

[2 Level Advisor]

praaaavilno .. and two will keep it even better according to this logic .. and after the first one many lose their figure. Your thought is relevant for finding a man, really - looking good - more chance to find normal .. being married, the importance of appearance is greatly reduced (although this is wrong) for women ..
Think about it, go on vacation with one child with your family, or 2-3-4, it already costs different money. in our reality, having three children - in 90% of cases - good: a car, rest, things, housing - are drastically moved to an indefinite future and there is a fear of losing a job, it is hopeless, joyless to plow from morning to night, while health is, etc. ... and in such situations - what kind of person will give birth to 3x with such conditions, that's really - already for 3x you need to give a medal ...
But in Europe, maybe your logic works .. but there the standard of living is different .. the analogy does not fit .. we are not in Africa and not in Europe in this sense ..

[lucul]

those. in our reality, having three children - in 90% of cases - good: a car, rest, things, housing - are sharply moved to an uncertain future

The trouble is that the inhabitants of the former USSR were drilled into their heads that everyone should live like a billionaire, and nothing else (after all, all people are equal). Therefore, they and, accordingly, all want to live like this (they also saw a picture in the West, how billionaires live) and DEMAND from the government that it provides everyone with the necessary billion for life. Instead of earning themselves, they demand.
But for everyone, there will not be enough resources - well, in the sense that everyone should be made a billionaire. But not everyone understands this.

[2 Level Advisor]

you are partly right, especially regarding young people .. But! in dreams, but if about realities:
"As noted in the study, the size of a decent salary depends on the age of the survey participants. The average estimate of a decent salary among Russians over 35 is 56 thousand rubles, and among survey participants under 35, it is 61 thousand rubles."
https://www.rbc.ru/society/01/05/2020/5eab85ca9a79471e9d591c02
that is, no one is against becoming a billionaire, but the desires of the bulk of citizens are not supernatural .. in principle, they want $ 1000 even a little less ..
Let's call math ... It's hard, just getting 25-30 thousand rubles ($ 300-400) - to raise two or three children .. just think about the wife on maternity leave - the husband works alone, let him get 50000 (and most of them don't ), wife and 3 children around the neck .. how to survive? suggest options - I don't know legal .. and if there is still a mortgage or removable ..

[your1970]

Quote: Lannan Shi

Quote: Leader of the Redskins

The feeling that the country and the government do not need youth,

And this is not a feeling, it is a fact. Why is she needed then? 20-25 years to spend resources when you can take and open doors wide open. For Uzbeks and Tajiks. Solid profit

Maybe you don't know, but they haven't been going for a long time ... After the dollar jump in 2014, it became unprofitable for them. Even if we just open the border ...

[vlad.baryatinsky]

Hello !

Quote: Svarog

The answer is even simpler - they lie .. they constantly lie

Not that word!
Hypocrites!
At the same time, immigration is also silent. I work at the Ter-Apel (NL) refugee reception centers. Mid-level social worker.
If earlier they applied for asylum in the Netherlands mainly from North. Caucasus.
Now Wednesday. strip of Russia, Ural, Siberia, Dal. East.
Believe it or not, one youth rushes up to 35 - 40 years old.
Do you know what specialties?
Locksmiths, bricklayers, carpenters, bridgeworkers, welders.
You will not believe! Firms sort out our compatriots like hot cakes in winter.
And almost all smart people and not drinking large, strong families!
Sometimes you stand in the smoking room in thought. Why is Power driving Russia with its policy ???

[Bolt cutter]

Believe it or not, one youth rushes up to 35 - 40 years old.

And on what basis do they claim asylum? For whites, this shop is almost three locks closed.

[vlad.baryatinsky]

A lot of life situations!
1) Political persuasion.
2) Medical problems. (diseases that cannot be treated or are difficult to cure in the Russian Federation)
3) Persecution for political reasons.
4) Threat to life. (State, organized crime, power structure, individuals and legal entities)
5) Religious considerations.
5) LGBT.
6) Accommodation in a zone of hostilities, inter-ethnic conflicts, natural disasters.
7) Workers special. which are indicated above.
PS There are also many security officials asking for asylum. Information is confidential.
If you need to help, feel free to contact us.

[Bolt cutter]

If you need to help, feel free to contact us.

Thank you - there are already 2 passports of NATO countries (with the option of getting a third more into the collection). As far as I know, 99.7% of such petitioners kick off because of their belonging to "economic migrants" - otherwise in England Ukrainian would already be the second state ... They made it past a long time ago that they would pretend to be a fagot, and they would go to the march to snatch refugee status.
This is not from you mailing "services of immigration lawyers" that guarantee an inexpensive passport of Belgium / Denmark, but upon closer examination, they teach how to become a refugee.

[vlad.baryatinsky]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

They have long since missed that they will pretend to be a fagot and they will go to the march to snatch refugee status

To say that I fell in love is not the right word.

Quote: Bolt Cutter

This is not from you mailing "services of immigration lawyers" that guarantee an inexpensive passport of Belgium / Denmark, but upon closer examination, they teach how to become a refugee.

No, what are you!
I am a civil servant. Social worker of the middle hand. This is a crime! For me.
But the image is legal.

[Bolt cutter]

I am a civil servant. Social worker of the middle hand. This is a crime!

So there, too, experienced lawyers wrote to me For a long time in Europe, I have heard a lot of immigrant tales (about like hunting tales, only even less true) The latest invention - all of Ukraine rushed into refugees from the war - Russian special forces they say they bombed their own hut in the Lviv region from anti-aircraft mortars and now, except in London, he cannot live anywhere in the world - no canal - settling tank (Heathrow Immigration Center) and home. So for 99.7% of smart people.

[vlad.baryatinsky]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

Duc there, too, experienced lawyers wrote to me.I have been in Europe for a long time and have heard a lot of immigrant tales (about like hunting tales, only even less true)

Perhaps you have stumbled upon unscrupulous businessmen.
Such cases are more the rule than the exception.
My proposal was fundamentally different from those with whom you have encountered or encountered.
I absolutely did not ask you for a mat. Reward.
And I did not keep it in my thoughts!
I just decided for myself to help my compatriot.

Quote: Bolt Cutter

The latest invention - all of Ukraine rushed into refugees from the war - Russian special forces say they bombed their own hut in Lviv from anti-aircraft mortars

Right!
Not only Ukrainians, ours too.

Quote: Bolt Cutter

and now, except in London, he can not live anywhere in the world - he doesn’t canal- settler (Heathrow Immigration Center) and home

For the future. So simple information for thought.
If you apply for asylum, then only in countries such as Holland.
We will not, under any circumstances, deport the applicant.
And the conditions of detention are better than in the EU.
Heathrow, the quarantine and transshipment center you mentioned.
It has nothing to do with the center for placement and residence of refugee seekers.

Quote: Bolt Cutter

Heathrow Immigration Center) and home. So for 99.7% of smart people.

I would summarize that.
The applicant can always apply for an order. And you know, they often stay.
As for the Ukrainians, they "occupied" Vost. Europe.
On Foggy Albion and we have Poles.

[Bolt cutter]

Heathrow, the quarantine and transshipment center you mentioned.

Tp sump. I visited a friend there. Appeals win only 5-7% of cases - as a rule, this is an attempt to play for time.

If you apply for asylum, then only in countries such as Holland.
We will not, under any circumstances, deport the applicant.

In this case, the population of the Netherlands would have tripled (at least) in three years. And illegal immigrants from Calais, too, would all be with you, and not in Calais. So this is sheer misinformation.

Right!
Not only Ukrainians, ours too.

And how many real refugee statuses were issued under this wave - that's right! An insignificant amount. Otherwise, I repeat, now almost all of Ukraine (without exaggeration) would already be here.

Perhaps you have stumbled upon unscrupulous businessmen.

They knock on my mail. I don't need their services. But I know that among the Ukrainians in England there are people who do not hesitate to take money from their fellow countrymen for "consultation". Indirectly, it also proves that I (and my wife) were still offered money for a fictitious marriage - if only it was possible to drive to LGBT people, then this would not have happened.

[vlad.baryatinsky]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

Tp sump. I visited a friend there. Appeals win only 5-7% of cases - as a rule, this is an attempt to play for time.

Hello !
Sorry for the late reply!
I didn't follow the rating.
But there is a grain of truth in your resume.

Quote: Bolt Cutter

In this case, the population of the Netherlands would have tripled (at least) in three years. And illegal immigrants from Calais, too, would all be with you, and not in Calais. So this is sheer misinformation

Controversial statement!
When Syria and Libya flared up, the pressure of the applicants was no laughing matter.
In order to somehow take a breath and sustain a pause IND, Min.Just. Started issuing refugee status C, D, E.
They are temporary for 5,3,2 years.
That is, until temporary, until the situation in problem countries improves.
Mostly Iraqis, Syrians from the west and partly from the north were hit by this wave.

Quote: Bolt Cutter

And how many real refugee statuses were issued under this wave - that's right! An insignificant amount. Otherwise, I repeat, now almost all of Ukraine (without exaggeration) would already be here

You exaggerate.
In Ukraine, democratically elected governments after Yanukovych, according to the EU.
During the Maidan, under Yanukovych, Ukrainians were decently given status. To Tatars from Crimea, too.
Especially security officials. All that after is supposedly "democracy".
This means that there can be no problems with "democracy".

Quote: Bolt Cutter

But I know that among Ukrainians in England there are people who do not hesitate to take money from their fellow countrymen for "consultation

That's right!
And not only Ukrainians.
All nationalities from the post-Soviet space were noted.

[Bolt cutter]

apply for release

To move him to the "Opel"? Sorry, you somehow do not pull on a person with humanitarian education. I knew a vascular surgeon who wrote with wild mistakes, but for a lawyer this is bad manners.

[vlad.baryatinsky]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

I knew a vascular surgeon who wrote with wild mistakes, but for a lawyer this is bad manners.

Absolutely right!
Especially when you consider that the keys are symtematic. And time, communication. Since October 93rd, in immigration.
Unfortunately, with communication in the native language, alas!
But for you, this is not an argument .

[Bolt cutter]

Saying that you fell in love is not the right word

confidential.

Probably confidential. I was smitten too

But the image is legal.

[clerk]

... And I thought that such a mortality rate was due to the destroyed and not accessible to everyone medicine ... poor quality nutrition and low incomes.

It is not clear only why in the United States, with a twice as large population, the death rate from Covid is 6 times higher than the entire increase in mortality in Russia over the past year.

[clerk]

... Our people do not want to hunchback for a penny .. Here the people got it .. They don’t want to work for food.

Yeah. They don't want to work or fuck. Everyone is sitting there, cutting into tanks, philosophizing and waiting for the new Stalin to come and do everything for them. The thought that poor Asians work for a penny and at the same time support families with 5-8 children, and without any Stalin, does not come to their communoid-liberoid heads.

[Ross xnumx]

Indeed, for this reason we annually lose the population of the Central European country.

Strange information ... It remains to find on the map of Europe an average country with a population of 600 people.

[Undecim]

It remains to find on the map of Europe the average country with a population of 600.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Undecim

It remains to find on the map of Europe ...

Why so little?

Can you explain why this piece of the SFRY is average and what are the criteria for defining an average European country?
For example, I know that Montenegro:

State in South-Eastern Europe, in the west of the Balkan Peninsula. The smallest in area and population among the Slavic states, as well as on the Balkan Peninsula.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: ROSS 42

Indeed, for this reason we annually lose the population of the Central European country.

Strange information ... It remains to find on the map of Europe an average country with a population of 600 people.

The author did not mean mortality, but the procedure for terminating pregnancy, that is, abortion, as a result of which there is a loss of the population of the Central European country. Two million abortions a year is a number comparable to the population of any of the Baltic countries.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Nyrobsky

The author did not mean mortality, but the procedure for terminating pregnancy

I don't know what the author meant by writing this:

Indeed, for this reason we annually lose the population of the Central European country.

But since 2000, the number of abortions in the Russian Federation has been decreasing annually, and for 2018 they were performed:

That is why unreasonable hyperbole irritates me.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: ROSS 42

Quote: Nyrobsky

The author did not mean mortality, but the procedure for terminating pregnancy

I don't know what the author meant by writing this:

Indeed, for this reason we annually lose the population of the Central European country.

[/ Center]
That is why unreasonable hyperbole irritates me.

I agree. Your graph is closer to the current situation, and the author gave the figure until 2000.

Against the backdrop of a threatening demographic situation, calls to ban abortions began to be heard more and more often.
The topic is not new and dangerous. Indeed, every year for this reason we lose the population of the Central European country.
In 1990, there were over 4 million abortions. In 2000 - more than 2 million. Further, the indicators continued to decline.

[aars]

Although we must pay tribute to the authorities: a lot has been done recently to support families with children.

Absolutely useless.
The family is generally a dying institution.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Oh, of course. Under capitalism, it is very prosperous. But not all families are flourishing.

[aars]

Actually, you are right, in the higher stratum it is, they are engaged in children, education, etc., to transfer property.

[A_Lex]

Don't worry about demography. After the reaction has been overcome, the Soviet power will be restored, and now it will resolutely lead the construction of socialism, without even trying to fix it, but simply ruthlessly destroying any ideological enemies, the downward demographic trend will be overcome and the country's population will begin to grow again.

In the meantime, within the framework of the capitalist, and in fact cannibalistic system, and even in the colonial conditions of the third world country, demography will be strictly negative and no measures within the framework of the current regime will change this trend.

[Svarog]

Quote: A_Lex

and no measures under the current regime will change this trend.

Negroes will be brought in, Arabs ... and 50 years later, children in history textbooks will be amazed to learn that the Slavs once lived on this territory and they had blonde hair and blue eyes.

[aars]

Nafig us blacks, Uzbeks are enough.

[A_Lex]

Negroes will be delivered

They are imported by a few, with the hands of millions, and these millions then cry in blozhiks that the "state" is destroying them, although in fact it turns out that they destroy themselves with their own hands, because thoughtlessly, like automata, they obey the rules that are set against themselves.

[aars]

Strange dreams.
Socialism is associated with a strong, reliable pension system, and therefore - with the complete uselessness of children.

[A_Lex]

Socialism is associated with a strong, reliable pension system, and therefore - with the complete uselessness of children.

Nonsense.

[aars]

Not nonsense, but the bitter truth - children were previously given birth to be provided for in old age, but now - nafig are not needed.

[A_Lex]

and the bitter truth

Lies. In the USSR, with the provision of retirement, everything was normal, and the population was growing at such a pace that the distribution system did not always keep up with this growth.

[aars]

Lies, the birth rate in the USSR was gradually declining.

[A_Lex]

the birth rate in the USSR gradually decreased

which does not in the least contradict the population growth trend in the USSR. While the USSR existed, its population grew and the demographic trend was strictly upward.

[aars]

So what?
Did you have a two in mathematics?
As soon as it fell below the reproduction rate, the number went down.
Once again, under the USSR, the birth rate was falling.

[A_Lex]

As soon as it fell below the reproduction rate, the number went down.

Give the figures showing that after WWII in the USSR the population was declining.

[aars]

Can't you read?
Fertility was declining, okay?
And, if the USSR existed further, the decline began.
The USSR simply did not survive.

[A_Lex]

And, if the USSR existed further, the decline began.
The USSR simply did not survive.

I knew that the answer would be a similar nonsense from the cycle "if only, but if only."

While the USSR existed, its population grew. It is a fact.
A statement from the "if" cycle is an assumption that does not have to be realized.

You answer my fact with an assumption and pretend that it must have happened. Those. doing banal demagoguery.

He still remembers mathematics. Asks if I can read. Zvizdobol.

[aars]

The birth rate in the USSR was declining.
Once again - no, not growing - decreasing.
So see?
This is due precisely to the welfare state - pensions, raising the level of education, urbanization.
Your demagogy does not channel.

[A_Lex]

The birth rate in the USSR was declining.

The fact that the birth rate under the USSR for a certain period decreased does not mean at all that, if the USSR continued to exist, the birth rate must have reached zero, after which it should have become negative. We do not know this and cannot know. Therefore, all assumptions on this topic are unfounded.

This is due precisely to the welfare state - pensions, raising the level of education, urbanization.

Those. Now in the Russian Federation everything is fine with pensions.

[aars]

You have a solid unit in mathematics.
The birth rate cannot be negative, children do not drop back!
Once again - the reproduction rate, he, for memory - 2,15

[A_Lex]

You have a solid unit in mathematics.

It's good that you finished talking about the USSR. Your nonsense about me personally is of little interest to me.

[aars]

So I will repeat once again, especially for you - the birth rate in the USSR _reduced_!
Got it?

[Simargl]

Quote: aars

You are not capable of counting at all or what?

Counting is not only addition / subtraction, but also multiplication and other interesting actions.
It's just that not everyone knows how to go beyond the first two.
Slowdown in growth, negative growth - this is, as usual, the delusion of Rosstat.

[aglet]

"You have a solid unit in mathematics.
The birth rate can not be negative, children do not drop back! "
well, if there is negative growth, why not negative fertility?

[paul3390]

The birth rate in the USSR was declining.

The factor of losses in the Second World War in those years and their influence on further fertility - of course, monsieur is not going to take into account? Actually, such factors stop acting only after a couple of generations .. Just in our years, in theory, they should come to naught. But - capitalism burst out ..

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: paul3390

The birth rate in the USSR was declining.

The factor of losses in the Second World War in those years and their influence on further fertility - of course, monsieur is not going to take into account? Actually, such factors stop acting only after a couple of generations .. Just in our years, in theory, they should come to naught. But - capitalism burst out ..

Capitalism does not affect this in any way, even in the heavenly Scandinavian countries, where real capitalism is not natural growth. This is a 4 demographic transition. The time has passed when a high birth rate was needed, now 1 child in the HDI can equal 2, 3 and 4 children earlier. It went into quality, but before it was into quantity. The West is an example of this. The population is smaller - but the HDI is higher than in those countries where the population is several times, or even 10 times larger.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Actually, how does it affect. Because the economy is the basis.

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Actually, how does it affect. Because the economy is the basis.

Tell that to the Scandinavian countries. Where there is a demographic transition and for this period they have a high birth rate, and then there is capitalism.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Wait looked. TFR for Finland 1,5. This is apparently not a Scandinavian country enough. Is this how high fertility looks today?

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Wait looked. TFR for Finland 1,5. This is apparently not a Scandinavian country enough. Is this how high fertility looks today?

This is the 4th demographic transition, go study, the Russian Federation in 4 will be at the level of Korea.

[clerk]

At the end of the USSR (1990), the birth rate in Russia (RSFSR) was 1,89, in 2000 1,2. For comparison, in the United States in 1990 2,08, in 2000 - 2,06 children per woman of childbearing age. The decline in the birth rate in the United States began already in the 200s. Russia (RSFSR), due to a sharp decrease in the birth rate after 1990, for only 10 subsequent years, was missing approx. 7 million unborn children. Another 4 million additional deaths gave an increase in mortality compared to 1990. And if the mortality rate was somewhat reduced (from 15,3 / 1000 in 2000 to 13/1000 in 2019), then it is much more difficult to reverse the birth rate trend.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

And the rolls will bake themselves under socialism, do I understand correctly?

[andrew42]

Forgot to add: "... and the sun revolves around the Earth." As I understand it, this was the basic axiom for your new "social geometry".

[your1970]

Quote: A_Lex

and even in the colonial conditions of a third world country, demography will be strictly negative

Learn history - in the colonial countries of the third world, negative demography never existed and never will. Just because a family needs a lot of workers to survive there, otherwise the family will die of hunger. All Asia and Africa live like this.
So you finger to the sky with the colony

[Poetry]

A monstrous failure happened because of the Great Patriotic War, but this was mentioned in passing. But he goes along a sinusoid. And of course, Putin is not screwing up our eyes. I am writing, although I know that I entered the line of fire, minus will now fly.

[Svarog]

Quote: Poetiszaugla

A monstrous failure happened due to the Great Patriotic War

Because of the Polovtsy and Pechenegs, this is all .. from there still a demographic failure formed ..

[aars]

Nope, the evil Tatars are to blame, they cut everyone.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Poetiszaugla

A monstrous failure happened due to the Great Patriotic War

Due to the Great Patriotic War, there was a failure in the population. The fertility decline appeared with the destruction of the village and the migration of villagers to the cities. It was in the villages that families had at least four children. This city could not boast of the massiveness of large families (although there were exceptions). In the sixties, in our 60-apartment building there were only 4 large families (four or more children).

[IS-80_RVGK2]

And who destroyed it then? The village itself is dying off due to the growth of labor productivity. No need to breed conspiracy theories here.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

And who destroyed it then? The village itself is dying off due to the growth of labor productivity. No need to breed conspiracy theories here.

What theories are there? Everything lies on the surface. The first step was to destroy collective and state farms in an attempt to give birth to private farmers, taking away all farms in shares. There was no work, the population slipped into the cities.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

I'm not talking about what was happening in the 90s, although in fact, even then no one destroyed the village, but about a global trend. Which was quite himself in the USSR throughout its existence.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

I say not about what happened in the 90s, although in fact no one destroyed the village even then

I wonder what in your understanding is - "destruction of the village" ?.
If this is what the Nazis did by burning houses together with the inhabitants, then of course no one really destroyed the villages in this way in the 90s.
However, it must be admitted that the deliberate and consistent destruction of state farms, collective farms, with the slaughter of livestock and the seizure of agricultural land and agricultural equipment into private ownership, the closure of kindergartens, schools, houses of culture (clubs) with libraries, post offices and FAPs, with a clean-up of jobs in the countryside and in the countryside, was carried out under the control of the state and was called beautifully - "reform of agriculture and optimization of education and medicine", which translated into ordinary language means - the creation of conditions stimulating the outflow and reduction of the rural population ... This was done in order to cleanse the Russian market from agricultural products of a local manufacturer and open the gates for the import of agricultural products from across the hill. By sacrificing their peasantry, the European peasantry was strengthened. The village cannot be revived, not because people do not want, but because the state has created such a system and mechanisms so that this would not happen a priori. Just try with your family to drop into an abandoned village, fix an abandoned house by the pond and get down to business - plowing the land, growing agricultural products, getting a livestock, catching fish and selling. Tomorrow at your doorstep there will be "comrades" from the cadastral chamber, tax inspection, a district police officer from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a representative of the environmental prosecutor's office, aunts from the guardianship and consumer protection authorities, uncles from the fish inspection, activists from the Society for the Protection of Animals and other related crap to smash into the trash your life and business, and you will be fined for unauthorized seizure of land, damage to the fertile layer, pollution of the environment, poaching, illegal business and tax evasion.

[andrew42]

Destruction is not only when policemen walk around Khatyn. The policemen can quite easily sit in the Kremlin, counting the number of those who "did not fit into the market."

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Let's not hang all the dogs on the capitalists. They have more than enough of their own. Yes, of course, agriculture of the socialist type was broken. Yes, of course, to the delight of our speculators, traders and Westerners. But now agriculture has risen significantly compared to the 90s, and the population still leaves for cities. And tomorrow, if socialism is reborn again, it will be the same. With all the negative factors, the increase in labor productivity on the outflow of the population is most affected at the moment. And not only from the village. As an example, after the modernization of the plant in my city, more than half were gradually fired. The same is true in many other businesses. Yes, of course there are a lot of redundancies with layoffs, but the bulk really had to be fired because they were simply not needed. You understand, I do not deny all this negativity about which you speak. I just want to say that another factor plays a major role here. And it was the same under socialism. The percentage of urban and rural residents gradually changed towards an increase in urban. Another thing is that under socialism, all people sought to provide work, very often overdoing it in this regard. Now, nobody cares about you. Capitalism is becoming obsolete precisely because the productive forces have outgrown production relations. And the preservation of the current situation sometimes brings it to the point of absurdity. Take the same idea with an unconditional basic income. This is pure nonsense. Instead of engaging a person with useful activities, the economic system forces him to become a beggar parasite on benefits. And this is already now, but what will happen tomorrow when labor productivity will grow even more? One percent with a bipod and 99 with a spoon?

[your1970]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Just try with your family to drop into an abandoned village, fix an abandoned house by the pond and get down to business - plowing the land, growing agricultural products, getting a livestock, catching fish and selling. Tomorrow at your doorstep there will be "comrades" from the cadastral chamber, tax inspection, a district police officer from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a representative of the environmental prosecutor's office, aunts from the guardianship and consumer protection authorities, uncles from the fish inspection, activists from the Society for the Protection of Animals and other related crap to smash into the trash your life and business, and you will be fined for unauthorized seizure of land, damage to the fertile layer, pollution of the environment, poaching, illegal business and tax evasion.

Well for starters
- The Cadastral Chamber was never engaged in seizing land itself. These are always Rosreestr engaged, I officially tell you as a state land inspector. Make out and you will be happy
- the environmental prosecutor's office will never come to you in an ordinary plowed field - not their diocese.
- aunts from guardianship will not come to you - if your children go to school and there will be no complaints
- Rospotrebnadzor will not come - if you don’t hand over your products to stores
- fishery supervision - buy a half fishing ticket for fishing with a net and you will send them
- activists .... This is the worst option - they will just have to be sent. In the distance .... Unlike all of the above, it is pointless to complain about them
- tax. Here, yes - you will have to issue an individual entrepreneur (peasant farm) and pay taxes.

Out of all the horror you have wrapped up, there is only one tax

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: your1970

Quote: Nyrobsky

Just try with your family to drop into an abandoned village, fix an abandoned house by the pond and get down to business - plowing the land, growing agricultural products, getting a livestock, catching fish and selling. Tomorrow at your doorstep there will be "comrades" from the cadastral chamber, tax inspection, a district police officer from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, a representative of the environmental prosecutor's office, aunts from the guardianship and consumer protection authorities, uncles from the fish inspection, activists from the Society for the Protection of Animals and other related crap to smash into the trash your life and business, and you will be fined for unauthorized seizure of land, damage to the fertile layer, pollution of the environment, poaching, illegal business and tax evasion.

Well for starters
- The Cadastral Chamber was never engaged in seizing land itself. These are always Rosreestr engaged, I officially tell you as a state land inspector. Make out and you will be happy
- the environmental prosecutor's office will never come to you in an ordinary plowed field - not their diocese.
- aunts from guardianship will not come to you - if your children go to school and there will be no complaints
- Rospotrebnadzor will not come - if you don’t hand over your products to stores
- fishery supervision - buy a half fishing ticket for fishing with a net and you will send them
- activists .... This is the worst option - they will just have to be sent. In the distance .... Unlike all of the above, it is pointless to complain about them
- tax. Here, yes - you will have to issue an individual entrepreneur (peasant farm) and pay taxes.
Out of all the horror you have wrapped up, there is only one tax

How lovely! How glorious that at the time of the development of the mainland, the people moving beyond the Urals to Siberia and the Far East could establish towns and settlements without all these "formalities"! Otherwise, they would still be sitting within the boundaries of the Pskov region, Smolensk region, Moscow and Ryazan region! Well, you understand that all these "guests from government agencies" listed by me are from the category - "relatively speaking", although the "new settler" will eventually have to face them all. And again, any registration and legalization requires money, and if there is none, then there will be no registration or legalization for you - go homeless and live by what God will give, because the state is not obliged to submit, and therefore the citizen is already placed in the category of a potential intruder. A mechanism is needed that is understandable and accessible, with government support and interest, and not a one-time Far Eastern hectare program. Is it acting by the way, or has it already died out? Something lately there is no information on it at all

[your1970]

Quote: Nyrobsky

How glorious that at the time of the development of the mainland, the people moving beyond the Urals to Siberia and the Far East could establish towns and settlements without all these "formalities"!

I'll tell you a secret, it was the same under the kings. Almost literally ..
Taxes on agricultural were and were very high, and therefore tempted to go to the Cossacks (they were exempted from paying taxes). The tax on fish was and was large (especially in the Urals) - again a lure for the Cossacks
For example, under the kings, we had a tax on state wells - paid for a year in advance, gave out a token and drink water. Caught without a token at the wells - the pants were lowered and whipped in the square .. Nice thing ...
Sheep tax - we had ...
And all this was quite a lot of money.
Our farm of 60 yards hid in the steppe from 1800 to 1854. It turned out to be cheaper for the people to pay the local Cossack head, the police chief and to the district - than to pay all taxes, fees and duties ...
That is why the people fled across Siberia towards the Far East And the Cossacks, to support the authorities and their benefits, helped the authorities to tax them
So all this has already happened ...

Quote: Nyrobsky

because the state is not obliged to submit, and therefore a citizen has already been placed in the category of a potential violator

- everything was the same under the tsars and under the USSR and under Putin.
Only the penalties are different;
Tsar - take off your pants, get your ass under the whip ..
USSR- from 3 to 5
Putin - fines

[Nyrobsky]

And where is the poor peasant to go?
It was nice to chat, let's close the topic

[aglet]

"The village itself is dying off due to the growth of labor productivity."
if it were that easy. the modern village, in our country, at least is dying out because of the flow of cheap chemicals, under the guise of food and raw materials, poured across the borders, and the peasant cannot sell his products, albeit of a higher quality. the state, represented by the president and the government, besides pouting and chanting slogans about import substitution, does not want to help him in any way.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

The peasant now works in an agricultural holding that also drives all kinds of chemicals abroad. In general, less emotion is more thought.

[aglet]

"The peasant now works in an agricultural holding that also sends all kinds of chemicals abroad."
Well, this, of course, is a thought. But not all peasants work in agricultural holdings, and no one drives chemistry abroad, the competition is too high, agricultural holdings leave chemistry for internal use

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Poetiszaugla

A monstrous failure happened because of the Great Patriotic War, but this was mentioned in passing. But he goes along a sinusoid. And of course, Putin is not screwing up our eyes. I am writing, although I know that I entered the line of fire, minus will now fly.

I believe that in this case, the minuses will fly quite deservedly. Despite the huge losses, after the Great Patriotic War, the growth rate of the country's population was ascending until 1991, that is, until the collapse of the USSR, but the failure of the 90s, yes, it is not possible to compensate, despite the incentive measures taken. Even the Baltic countries, which were always whining about the years of "occupation", when they were part of the USSR, bred like rabbits, having lost 1/3 of their population after gaining "independence".
In principle, until the state creates conditions for a normal life, it will not be possible to increase the birth rate, because giving birth is one thing, but raising and educating this is another, and buying off with one-time financial handouts will not work.

[paul3390]

until the state creates conditions for a normal life

IMHO - here the main hope is for a brighter future. If you know that now yes, it sucks, but your children will live better, and grandchildren - so in general under communism, you can be patient, shrink. There is something to multiply for .. And when everything gets worse every year and there is a complete hopelessness ahead - what kind of children are there .. No prospects. Bearing children so that they are serfs among the descendants of Putin's neo-feudal lords is not a happy idea.

Here is the Soviet power - such confidence for the future gave people. Therefore, there were no such problems with demography. And now - I would say, but the Duma recently banned it ..

[your1970]

Quote: paul3390

Here is the Soviet government - it gave people such confidence for the future. Therefore, there were no such problems with demography.

And to make it even more confident for the future, the USSR took a tax for childlessness.
Gingerbread (bright future) and stick (childlessness tax), so to speak ...

[paul3390]

The tax was correct. If you do not want to feed your children, then you will feed strangers. But now, with the epic poverty of the population, this of course cannot be introduced. Or - only from a certain level of income. After all, many do not have children because of poverty, they cannot afford.

[your1970]

Quote: paul3390

But now, with the epic poverty of the population, this of course cannot be introduced. Or - only from a certain level of income.

If you have forgotten or did not know, in the USSR there was a minimum wage of 60 rubles. It was usually received by cleaners, postmen, nannies in kindergartens and hospitals.
The then minimum wage, so to speak .. No boo ... With any recalculations for any products, the current one, even a little more, will be in terms of purchasing power
So from this income, the tax on childless people was also taken in the USSR ...

[your1970]

Oh, the cons tightened ...
If anything is this normative the base of the USSR, the laws were then ...
That is why the then cleaners could any send a minister / general anywhere with a three-story obscenity - the salary is penny and therefore they will always take a job.
They were all feared then, for they shouted like the said
The nannies in the hospitals had a kalym - a ruble duck ...

[Gardamir]

to give birth to this is one thing, but to raise and educate this is another, and it will not work to buy off one-time financial handouts.

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Quote: Poetiszaugla

A monstrous failure happened because of the Great Patriotic War, but this was mentioned in passing. But he goes along a sinusoid. And of course, Putin is not screwing up our eyes. I am writing, although I know that I entered the line of fire, minus will now fly.

I believe that in this case, the minuses will fly quite deservedly. Despite the huge losses, after the Great Patriotic War, the growth rate of the country's population was ascending until 1991, that is, until the collapse of the USSR, but the failure of the 90s, yes, it is not possible to compensate, despite the incentive measures taken. Even the Baltic countries, which were always whining about the years of "occupation", when they were part of the USSR, bred like rabbits, having lost 1/3 of their population after gaining "independence".
In principle, until the state creates conditions for a normal life, it will not be possible to increase the birth rate, because giving birth is one thing, but raising and educating this is another, and buying off with one-time financial handouts will not work.

If you look at the statistics on the coffin birth rate, then it has been falling since the beginning of the 20th century, at the end of the existence of the USSR, the population (not cofficent) grew exponentially, although the Russians' coefficient fell below 2 in 60-70. If the USSR had existed, there would have been a decline anyway, but at the same time, RI would not have lived 150 million, but 180. As in other republics of the USSR.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Antonio_Mariarti

If you look at the statistics on the coffin fertility, then it has been falling since the beginning of the 20th century.

It has been falling for objective reasons since 1905 - Russian-Japanese war, 1914 - World War I, 1917 revolution - civil war with emigration, collectivization, hunger and homelessness, 1941-45 Great Patriotic War. Under the "tyrant" J.V. Stalin, it began to grow, which was observed before the collapse of the USSR.
And then came "democracy and liberalism" which, without any wars and GULAGs, ruined millions of Russians' lives, creating a gap that cannot be closed up to this day. The population has no incentive for self-reproduction because it is devoid of the very foundation of understanding being and does not know where it is going, why it is being taken there, what it wants and what awaits in the future. No idea, no landmarks, no goal.

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Quote: Antonio_Mariarti

If you look at the statistics on the coffin fertility, then it has been falling since the beginning of the 20th century.

It has been falling for objective reasons since 1905 - Russian-Japanese war, 1914 - World War I, 1917 revolution - civil war with emigration, collectivization, hunger and homelessness, 1941-45 Great Patriotic War. Under the "tyrant" J.V. Stalin, it began to grow, which was observed before the collapse of the USSR.
And then came "democracy and liberalism" which, without any wars and GULAGs, ruined millions of Russians' lives, creating a gap that cannot be closed up to this day. The population has no incentive for self-reproduction because it is devoid of the very foundation of understanding being and does not know where it is going, why it is being taken there, what it wants and what awaits in the future. No idea, no landmarks, no goal.

Wars do not affect the birth rate, or rather do, but not significantly. Indeed, before the Russo-Japanese War, the Republic of Ingushetia had wars for losses from the population much more severe, which is the war with Napoleon. The First World War, and the revolution affected the birth rate, but not significantly. As if you look at the statistics, then it recovered at about the 1914 level. But then it fell due to the wild urbanization policy, or rather, everything went to cities, and in cities there is no need for 5-6 children. No, one more time. The birth rate under Stalin was lower than even 20-30 years. Don't confuse this. The USSR has grown exponentially since the 70s. For example, in Uzbekistan, the birth rate is currently 1.7 per woman, but a natural increase is observed. But this will still be about 10 years from the strength. Further decline awaits. Reason 90g = reasons for the USSR. The USSR has been rotting since the 60s. No need to blame those people who came in 90 years. They only disentangled what their predecessors had created. In general, read about demographic transitions. Learn a lot about demographics.

[Ros 56]

Recently, the Ministry of Agriculture of the Russian Federation begged the government: let me admit at least seasonal workers from Central Asia - there will be no one to harvest the harvest. Either not planting and not sowing, or the good will rot in the fields, our homegrown people do not want to.

And they did not try to pay normal money to their citizens, and not only in agriculture, but in the economy as a whole. Even the money that the state allocates cannot normally reach the people because of the officials and local authorities. The president has to ask - where is the money, Zin? Laughter through tears. It is time for these efficient managers to tighten the screws so that they are afraid of such questions. And Shmakov should be kicked with his trade unions, they sit and don't do a damn thing. There will be something to raise children and children will appear.

[A_Lex]

And they didn't try to pay normal money to their citizens

If everyone is paid normal money, then the self-elected will not be able to buy ocean yachts and take billions offshore.

[Ros 56]

Then what is it about?

[A_Lex]

Then what is it about?

In the framework of a cannibalistic regime, any question on the topic of population decline will be rhetorical.

[your1970]

Quote: A_Lex

And they didn't try to pay normal money to their citizens

If everyone is paid normal money, then the self-elected will not be able to buy ocean yachts and take billions offshore.

Then a loaf of bread will cost 100. Everyone who raises their wages will raise the price of their products. Automatically ... Or quit his production - due to the inability to pay such salaries

[andrew42]

Late. Such measures will no longer help. If this continues, it will only be left to hope for the Cheka brigades - in banks, offices, apartments. - to open the floors, to dig up safes, to dig up earth in the courtyards of mansions. At least 10% of what is not taken offshore can be hooked. (Joke). In fact, this is also unrealistic. "Distributed" money will never return to the real State (with a capital letter) sector. In the meantime, 10% (owners and tiny gatherers) live in the State (their own, such a harrosh), and the remaining 90% - in the state (that is, in the fortress of the former).

[your1970]

Quote: andrew42

Cheka brigades hope

Up to 30% of the Cheka's employees thundered under the watchtower and in prison with the wording in the verdict: ".... Including did not enter into the inventory what was seized during the search ...."
So in the current situation - you can not hope for the Cheka

[Redsun]

You need to look a little deeper. The world is changing, in developed civilized countries there is no longer any need to give birth to many children in the hope that later they will support and feed you, the old one. For quite understandable reasons, people first want to live for themselves, make a career, engage in creativity, self-development, and provide decent earnings. The issue of childbearing is not at the forefront. And that's okay. After the birth of the first child, not every family decides to give birth to the second, and the point is not even in material well-being, but simply because they do not want or do not see any special sense in this. This is again a decline in population. In order to reverse such a tendency, it is necessary to change the very psychology of people, carefully and as unobtrusively as possible putting into their heads the idea that many children are right, it is respected in society and the like. An increase in material support is unlikely to have a significant effect, large amounts of maternity capital, which did not greatly improve the birth rate, have already proven this

[Ros 56]

Alas, this does not threaten us. On the contrary, our parents are pensioners who help their children and grandchildren. And about the capital, it’s in vain, very solid help in purchasing housing.

[Redsun]

I fully support the capital, the initiative is excellent, especially for the first-born. It's another matter that, unfortunately, it did not give a special effect, just as it will not give its increase within reasonable limits.

[lucul]

I fully support the capital, the initiative is excellent, especially for the first-born. It's another matter that, unfortunately, it did not give a special effect, just as it will not give its increase within reasonable limits.

The root cause is the cult of the body and the imposition of selfishness, by means of the media among women, plus higher education education.
Not for nothing in Central Asia - the lower the education of a girl, the higher the kalym.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

It looked especially gorgeous for people who decided to have a child despite their small income, but who did it a little earlier. And they received little less than nothing.

[Redsun]

This is my favorite. Probably it was necessary to pay everyone half a million or not pay at all. Otherwise, this situation is inevitable.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Rather, pay depending on the amount of income. But our capitalist government here once again tried and did a disservice.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Uh-huh. The point, of course, is purely in psychology, and not in the fact that for 35 thousand salaries you will simply keep a family with two children on the verge of poverty, and you won't be able to pull a third child at all. And this is without taking into account the mortgage. The depth of your thought is simply amazing.

[Redsun]

Of course not without it. But first, in the most costly period, the state helps significantly. Secondly, before, they also did not live richly, but gave birth to more. And thirdly, look at the demography of the same Germany, for example. Are the salaries small there too, or maybe something else? And this is not even taking into account our birth rate curve, which constantly produces a sinusoid due to the colossal losses of the 40s.

[lucul]

And thirdly, look at the demography of the same Germany, for example.

I will give you one of the reasons for the low birth rate in Germany - there maternity hospital services cost 10 euros, and the rest is in this vein. The services of the maternity hospital will be reduced - the birth rate will also grow.

[Redsun]

I won't say anything about the cost of the maternity hospital's services, but for sure, if everything were so simple, the problem would have been solved long ago. Bad demographics are of no use to anyone

[lucul]

Bad demographics are of no use to anyone

Remember the simple truth - just enough goyim are needed to serve the golden billion, all the rest, in their opinion, are superfluous, consume their resources ...

[Bolt cutter]

there maternity hospital services cost 10 euros

Only pays for them krankenkasse if you are not on bird's rights. In England it's all free - and the result is just the same as in Germany. Although ... In small towns in England, where housing costs reasonable money, you quite often see white families with three or four children. Maybe the massive construction of cheap housing will be an effective measure?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Let’s not be about substantially. Because I have no censorship words for this. And before, in general, they walked in skins, and even earlier they hung on the branches with their tail hooked. What problem are we discussing, which was before or which is now? Why should I look at Germany? What will this watching show? What is the capitalist economy crap even in developed countries? So I already know it. Well, yes, well, yes, and if you also take into account the harm from the Pechenegs and swimmers .. Agents of the State Department always interfere with a shitty dancer.

[Redsun]

If you don't understand the issue, don't write nonsense. Demography is a slightly more complex science than you think. Those losses haunted and will haunt for a long time. Raise salary and then fertility will increase? No, sorry, it doesn't work like that

[IS-80_RVGK2]

To ascribe his stupidity to an opponent receiving demagogues. In my case, it won't work for you. If you don't raise your salary, it doesn't work at all.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

By the way, an expert on demographic issues, what can you suggest to solve this problem? I foresee nothing really working except for the delivery of some negroes. I know what to do, but within the framework of the capitalist system it is not feasible.

[Redsun]

I already wrote what is needed. You don't seem to know how to read, but you are trying to prove something here

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Not. Nonsense about psychology is not accepted. Can't you suggest anything else? I knew it.

[Redsun]

Oh really? Your suggestions? Force to give birth, to force? Or the notorious improvement in living standards and raising incomes? There will be many children in families when it is respected in society. Until then, do not stimulate, no matter how you force, 1-2 children for a family will be the norm

[IS-80_RVGK2]

A whole range of measures is needed. But as I said earlier, within the framework of the capitalist economy, it is unrealizable. It's easier to bring in blacks. They are not over yet.

[Redsun]

If they are unrealizable within the framework of the capitalist economy, then it is possible not to consider them separately. There are no other promising trends in the near future. And measures are needed now

[IS-80_RVGK2]

I also speak. In addition to bringing in blacks, the patriots have nothing to offer you stability. For in reality it is not profitable for you to solve the problem of falling birth rates among the local population.

[Redsun]

How can this be beneficial or not beneficial to me personally? I only worry about the safety of my people as a unique huge community, and I want the country to be stronger and more economically successful due to the large number of young economically active population. And I just do not welcome the importation of blacks. It won't do anything good in the long run.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Well, this is the dough should be shared with all sorts of slaves. No, it's easier to bring in blacks. It certainly can when wild blacks are around it and it is unpleasant. But on the other hand, what's the difference while you can row the loot with a shovel?

[lucul]

The State Department agents always interfere with the shitty dancer.

Well, start - I will give a simple example, our women here do not want to give birth, and when they marry an Asian resident, they quietly give birth to 5 children there.
I will say even more, Russian, having married a Chinese, Vietnamese, Uzbek and other people give birth to more children. They just have a different attitude towards women.

[Kronos]

No, otherwise there were no demographic problems in Japan or China.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

He is generally not aware of the gradual decline in TFR in the same Asian countries. However, he does not know what the TFR is. But yes, he has an opinion.

[Redsun]

In Asian countries, let it be known, measures have been taken to reduce the birth rate due to overpopulation. And because of the same overpopulation in Korea, for example, children with their parents live up to 35 years old and longer in the 21st century. The same is true for Japan. Indeed, why give birth there now less. Riddle for the kindergartner

[IS-80_RVGK2]

But I've read that in the United States, young people now also live with their parents longer than before. As I understand it, the United States is one of the Asian countries? As far as I know, these measures were not applied everywhere in Asia, but the TFR is still falling. Maybe you're not digging there?

[Redsun]

America is far from Asian problems in this regard. The income level there is mostly decent, and there is enough territory. For them it is more of a cultural and educational issue, as in general it is with us, but with its own characteristics

[IS-80_RVGK2]

This is the same question. The question of economics.

[andrew42]

And as Sherlock (Livanov) said to Watson (Solomin): Well, what do you say now, my dear "psychologist" ?! Our people have absolutely NORMAL psychology - not to produce slaves for life in poverty. It's not even psychology, it's a NORMAL instinct.

[Redsun]

Do you consider yourself a slave?

[Odysseus]

The article is already somewhat outdated. The totals for the entire 2020 are calculated
Extinction -688 thousand, a record since 2005, the number of births -1 million 435,8 thousand people, the lowest since 2002.
Especially catastrophic is the situation with men of working age, every 5 deaths in the Russian Federation.
The chairman of the commission of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation recently compared the situation with men to the situation in Syria, which has been at war for 10 years.
As for the statistics on migration, it is unreliable. (There is also a slight discrepancy in deaths due to the "missing" whose number in the Russian Federation is in the tens of thousands)
First, the number of people leaving is understated. Germany, USA, etc. They record 3-4 times more visitors from the Russian Federation than our statistics. These are Russians. The reason is that the majority is not removed from the register.
Secondly, the number of migrants from the former republics of the USSR is underestimated. Or rather, from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, completely impoverished without oil and gas, Uzbekistan with its huge population and Ukraine and Armenia where the situation is even worse than in the Russian Federation.
This leads to the fact that statistics on ethnic composition become extremely unreliable - the number of Russians is actually much less than the statistics write.

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: Odyssey

The article is already somewhat outdated. The totals for the entire 2020 are calculated
Extinction -688 thousand, a record since 2005, the number of births -1 million 435,8 thousand people, the lowest since 2002.
Especially catastrophic is the situation with men of working age, every 5 deaths in the Russian Federation.
The chairman of the commission of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation recently compared the situation with men to the situation in Syria, which has been at war for 10 years.
As for the statistics on migration, it is unreliable. (There is also a slight discrepancy in deaths due to the "missing" whose number in the Russian Federation is in the tens of thousands)
First, the number of people leaving is understated. Germany, USA, etc. They record 3-4 times more visitors from the Russian Federation than our statistics. These are Russians. The reason is that the majority is not removed from the register.
Secondly, the number of migrants from the former republics of the USSR is underestimated. Or rather, from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, completely impoverished without oil and gas, Uzbekistan with its huge population and Ukraine and Armenia where the situation is even worse than in the Russian Federation.
This leads to the fact that statistics on ethnic composition become extremely unreliable - the number of Russians is actually much less than the statistics write.

I agree with everything except the last point. Nevertheless, the number of Russians in the percentage of the population has not decreased, in quantity it may be slightly less or the same amount will be as in 2010. This is influenced by the factor of mass distribution of citizenships in Ukraine, in 2019 500k, in 2020 under 600 (if memory serves) Esil compare with Sr. Asia, then they get little + the majority are still Russians. Also, the Russians are assimilating the peoples of the Russian Federation. Guess what, this year's census will show how and what we have. After all, the 2015 micro-census showed an increase in Russians from the population by 2 percent.

[Odysseus]

Quote: Antonio_Mariarti

I agree with everything except the last point. Nevertheless, the number of Russians in the percentage of the population has not decreased, in quantity it may be slightly less or the same amount will be as in 2010.

Look, for example, the 2010 census showed 91% of Russians in Moscow. In response, there was a Homeric laughter, because anyone who lives or at least has been in Moscow in 2010 knew that this was complete nonsense .. There were at most 70% of Russians, exact estimates are impossible from - for fictitious statistics. Moreover, that, of course, they count on passports. In terms of the actual presence of people, the situation is even worse.
Now the visual situation is much worse, the number of Russians in Moscow and the Moscow region is decreasing. Any inhabitant of these regions can see this. Moreover, there is a constant influx of Russians from other regions.
In general, even the official statistics show the greatest reduction in the number of Russians.
Just look at the statistics by region. So even the official census will show a reduction. Another thing is that we do not know what the real situation is.

Quote: Antonio_Mariarti

This is influenced by the factor of mass distribution of citizenships in Ukraine, in 2019 500k, in 2020 under 600 (if memory serves)

Yes, Russification of Ukrainians is the only factor moving in the opposite direction. 100% of the census will show a decrease in the number of Ukrainians in the Russian Federation.
But the people you are writing about are residents of the DPR / LPR. There will be no census, since the Russian Federation believes that this is Ukraine.
Although, as part of the manipulation of statistics, these people can be enumerated in the census. And exactly as Russian. But this will be precisely manipulation.

[Antonio_Mariarti]

Quote: Odyssey

Quote: Antonio_Mariarti

I agree with everything except the last point. Nevertheless, the number of Russians in the percentage of the population has not decreased, in quantity it may be slightly less or the same amount will be as in 2010.

Look, for example, the 2010 census showed 91% of Russians in Moscow. In response, there was a Homeric laughter, because anyone who lives or at least has been in Moscow in 2010 knew that this was complete nonsense .. There were at most 70% of Russians, exact estimates are impossible from - for fictitious statistics. Moreover, that, of course, they count on passports. In terms of the actual presence of people, the situation is even worse.
Now the visual situation is much worse, the number of Russians in Moscow and the Moscow region is decreasing. Any inhabitant of these regions can see this. Moreover, there is a constant influx of Russians from other regions.
In general, even the official statistics show the greatest reduction in the number of Russians.
Just look at the statistics by region. So even the official census will show a reduction. Another thing is that we do not know what the real situation is.

Quote: Antonio_Mariarti

This is influenced by the factor of mass distribution of citizenships in Ukraine, in 2019 500k, in 2020 under 600 (if memory serves)

Yes, Russification of Ukrainians is the only factor moving in the opposite direction. 100% of the census will show a decrease in the number of Ukrainians in the Russian Federation.
But the people you are writing about are residents of the DPR / LPR. There will be no census, since the Russian Federation believes that this is Ukraine.
Although, as part of the manipulation of statistics, these people can be enumerated in the census. And exactly as Russian. But this will be precisely manipulation.

91 percent in Moscow are those who have Russian citizenship, it is clear that illegal migrants and migrants are not taken into account, and it is clear that if you count them, there will be 70 percent of Russians. If you look at children, then in Moscow the share of Russians has not dropped much. If the data for 2010 among children under 5 years old, Russians among them grew by 2 percent in the country. Also, a 2015 study on the ethnic composition of schoolchildren in large migration cities. In Moscow and the Moscow region, 16-18 percent of schoolchildren are not Russian. More precisely, for those whose native language is not Russian. This includes Ukrainians. Visually, one cannot judge. It doesn't work that way. As I have friends in Moscow, and I myself go often. Visually, if I judge and their opinions are Russian 70 percent. To be more precise, there are few in the center, and a lot on the outskirts. No, you didn't look closely at the 2010 census. If, for example, we take people who indicated their nationality in the census, then there are more Russians in comparison with 2002. Simply, for some reason, about 5 percent of the country's population did not indicate their nationality. Reduction? For example, I live in the Tomsk region and according to the census among children under 5 years of age, Russians have increased by 4 percent. From 92 to 96. In general, this corresponds to reality.
Not only Ukrainians, but the Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples, I think, within 30-40 years the Caucasus will also turn brown. After all, open the statistics for the republics, the birth rate among Russians is low, but it is growing as a percentage of the population. Especially among children under 5 years old. DPR and LPR will not be included in the population census.

[Sergej1972]

Why do you write the names of peoples, in violation of the rules of the Russian language, with a capital letter?

[Odysseus]

Quote: Sergej1972

Why do you write the names of peoples, in violation of the rules of the Russian language, with a capital letter?

Out of great respect
But you are right, this is wrong, thanks for the clarification. But I am so used to writing on the forum that I can probably write again with a big one.

[your1970]

Quote: Odyssey

Was 70% on the strength Russian exact estimates are impossible due to fictitious statistics. Moreover, that, of course, they consider passports.

Share the technology of counting Russians by passports? !!
Extremely interesting ...
There are no nationality counts 25 years

[Odysseus]

Quote: your1970

Share the technology of counting Russians by passports? !!
Extremely interesting ...
There are no nationality counts 25 years

It's simple. Perhaps you did not pay attention, but in the post you are citing, we are talking about censuses 2010. Nationality is found out there.
They count on passports, meaning that the census does not take place on the "heads", that is, not on the basis of who actually lives where, but on passports, that is, on the basis of who is registered where formally.
Theoretically, it looks like this - the scribe goes and asks everyone about the citizens registered here, including nationality. Unfortunately, this is not always the case in practice.
I wrote that due to the underestimation of the number of those who left and the number of those who entered, the statistics on the national composition is sharply deformed, as an example showing Moscow-2010 where the official census showed 91% of Russians, which caused a friendly laugh from Muscovites. If, for example, we take into account those who actually left Moscow long ago and live abroad (and personally I know many such people), then the statistics will change significantly.
If we count by head (that is, what we see in real life), then there were 70 percent of Russians in Moscow, and now even less.

[your1970]

Quote: Odyssey

Everything is simple

I am aware of census technology
I know what nationality they said and they will write it down.
I will say more, in the USSR, when you receive a passport, what nationality you say, and they will write it down
My classmate signed up as a Russian with a Moldovan father and an Armenian mother ...
The stupidity of Muscovites in this matter is amazing - they themselves are a 4/5 mixture of a bull and a rhinoceros. At the same time, they cannot distinguish a Tuvan from a Kirghiz, and a Nogai from Kalmyks ...

I am Russian according to the USSR passport with a purebred Ukrainian great-grandfather and a German great-grandmother. I am Russian?

[Odysseus]

Quote: your1970

I am a Russian according to the passport of the USSR - with my great-grandfather a purebred Ukrainian and a German great-grandmother. I am Russian?

Here you are considering a slightly different aspect. The Russian people were created around a common cultural core of various ethnic groups that are very different among themselves and located on a huge space. To simplify, we can say that the Russian is a worldview, not ethnicity. So answering your question, yes, you Russian, if you consider yourself to be such. Moreover, your ethnicity is not important.
But I am writing about something else. Again, simplifying going out into the street in Moscow you will see out of 10 people 3 Uzbeks / Kirgiz / Tajiks, 1-2 representatives of the Caucasian peoples and 1-2 Tatars / Ukrainians / Belarusians, etc. (which are difficult to distinguish from Russians, but after talking you will find out that they are not Russians). So it is impossible to get 91% in the census even taking into account the fact that many representatives of other ethnic groups are gradually becoming Russians. This is precisely a defect in statistics.
P / S There are no purebred Ukrainians. Many, in general, deny the existence of such a people, considering it a part of the Russian people, this is an erroneous point of view, because peoples appear and disappear and they can be formed. But the fact that Ukrainians, like Russians, are people not based on ethnicity, is a fact.

Quote: your1970

The stupidity of Muscovites in this matter is amazing

- Persecution of Moscow. What does it mean to see the light!
Where is better?
- Where we are not.

[your1970]

Quote: Odyssey

Simplifying, we can say that Russian is a worldview, not ethnicity. So answering your question, yes, you are Russian, if you yourself consider yourself to be such. Moreover, your ethnicity is not important.

Okay ... yeah ... and then bam

Quote: Odyssey

going outside in Moscow you will see out of 10 people 3 Uzbeks / Kirgiz / Tajiks, 1-2 representatives of the Caucasian peoples and 1-2 Tatars / Ukrainians / Belarusians, etc. (which are difficult to distinguish from Russians, but after talking you will find out that they are not Russians)

Great.....
That is, after talking with me, you decided that I was Russian (although in fact I can be Chinese or Nicaraguan or Chilean ), after talking with Belarusians, you are firmly sure that they NOT Russians ...
That is, your division into Russians / non-Russians is based exclusively on communication...
Corresponding to your statement

Quote: Odyssey

The 2010 census showed 91% of Russians in Moscow. In response, there was Homeric laughter, because anyone who lives or at least has been in Moscow in 2010 knew that this was complete nonsense .. There were at most 70% of Russians, exact estimates are impossible due to fictitious reference statistics

-
Spiteful nonsense ... Simply because you and others like you did not communicate with either 70 or 91% of those who consider themselves Russian. Therefore, even in theory you cannot know how many percent of Russians are you ...
These "homerically laughing Muscovites " judged EXCLUSIVELY in the shape of the nose, eyes and skin color ... What nafig beliefs ... "Chernenki flooded Muskva !!! Aaaaa !!!! "- patented by Muskvich

Quote: Odyssey

Persecution of Moscow. What does it mean to see the light!
Where is better?
- Where we are not.

Lived in Moscow 1987-1999 (-2 years of line). Absolutely rotten city, it sits and drives with nits. Even during the Soviet era ...
And now the third generation has grown up, the limits of the 1970s and the second limits of the 1980s. These are themselves completely removed by the indigenous inhabitants of Moscow.

Z. Y my friend is Kazakh. Purebred from all sides. All his ancestors lived in Russia, in the Samara province, then after the revolution in the Saratov region.
He was awarded a Red Star as a conscript in the USSR, another one for Courage, two for Military Merit. Tankman
Conviction (conditional) ..... While passing through Moscow, I heard from three Muscovites, "they came in large numbers here to us in black .....". Broke one arm, one rib ..
I tease him, they say, "Your criminal record is like a medal, I would have killed the freaks - it would have been like in a bike on Alexander 3" I would have hung it - I would have congratulated the colonel "..
He is laughing........

Z. Y. Z. Y precisely because of the "Homeric laughter" and rot - Muscovites are not loved all over the country

[Odysseus]

Quote: your1970

That is, after talking with me, you decided that I am Russian (although in fact I can be Chinese or Nicaraguan or Chilean), after talking with Belarusians, you are firmly convinced that they are NOT Russian ..

Oh my God. The last time I wrote the simplest thing, the statistics on fertility / mortality are reliable (with the exception of the question of missing people and registrations in the Caucasus), the statistics of migration registration is unreliable, since it underestimates the number of people who entered and the number of people who left and therefore it deforms both the total number of people and statistics on the national composition. It's an elementary fact which is not contested by anyone, there are many alternative estimates (including the Ministry of Internal Affairs) of the numerical and national composition by region, and so on. For example I took Moscow here (or I could take St. Petersburg or Krasnodar Territory, etc.). And already illustrating this to you, I wrote a very elementary thing - if a person goes out and sees 3 out of 10 residents of Central Asia, 2 are Caucasians, and communicating with the rest he sees that one says to him: I am a Tatar, the other is I am Ukrainian, I am Belarusian, etc., then 91% of Russians cannot be.
Instead of discussing at least one problem on the merits, you began to talk about something completely unrelated to the topic: about Muscovites, about the fact that people in the 2-3 generations with mixed marriages can register themselves as Russians. ...

Quote: your1970

"Blackies have flooded Maskwa !!! Aaaaa !!!!" - patented by Muskvich

What you write about Muscovites is, forgive the truth, dense savagery. I did not even begin to comment on this, not wanting to offend you and limited myself to a quote from Griboyedov (this is a Russian poet, playwright of the 19th century). Smart is enough ... But, alas, you did not understand this
In essence, your ideas about "Muscovites, Limits", about "not being loved", are absolutely identical to the ideas about "come in large numbers, little black people", etc. Only a different sign. But this is also thinking. Normal a person will never divide the citizens of Russia according to categories into black-haired Muscovites, Russians, Yakuts, Khabarovsk residents, etc. Moreover, this division is a favorite technology of our kleptocratic privatizers Yeltsin-Putin. Speaking in their language, let the stupid fuckers be divided into Russians, blacks, come in large numbers, Maaaskwich, etc. It only plays into our hands. Divide and rule.

Quote: your1970

While passing through Moscow, I heard from three Muscovites, "they came in large numbers here to us in black .....". Broke one arm, one rib

Insult with words is equally disgusting regardless of whether it is made by citizens registered in Moscow or Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk. But breaking hands in response is just a crime. It was necessary either to remain silent, or to answer in words in the same way. The fact that you do not understand this, again excuse me for the truth, speaks of your lack of understanding of what human morality is and what state law is.

[your1970]

Quote: Odyssey

But breaking hands in response is just a crime.

- Well, Muskva, she is also in Africa Muskva ... you did not notice what was written as usual ...

Quote: your1970

Previous conviction(conditional) .....

Homerically neighing over the fact that a Kyrgyz / Kalmyk - a citizen of the Russian Federation living here could quite write himself as a Russian - well, God be with him

But this is a masterpiece

Quote: Odyssey

I wrote this to you quite elementary - if a person goes out and sees(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) 3 out of 10 residents of Central Asia, 2 are Caucasians, and when communicating with the rest he sees that one says to him: I am a Tatar, the other-I am a Ukrainian, I am a Belarusian, etc., then 91% of Russians cannot be ...

-
I repeat
You nifiga not seeing me - concluded that I am Russian

Quote: Odyssey

So, answering your question, yes, you are Russian, if you consider yourself to be such.

-and immediately curtailed the rights of residents of Central Asia and Caucasians

Quote: Odyssey

A normal person will never divide the citizens of Russia into categories of black people, Muscovites, Russians, Yakuts, Khabarovsk residents, etc.

- you personally just divided into Russian and non-Russian residents of Moscow - when deprived them of the right to register themselves as Russian:

Quote: Odyssey

91% of Russians in Moscow. In response, there was a Homeric laugh, because anyone who lives or has been in Moscow in 2010 knew that this was complete nonsense.

and you are based not on the knowledge of the beliefs of these 91%, "I went out and see" -

Quote: your1970

These "homerically laughing Muscovites" judge EXCLUSIVELY by the shape of the nose, eyes and skin color ... What a nafig beliefs ... "Chernenki have flooded Maskwa !!! Aaaaa !!!!"

ZY Think for a second - why Moscow was not loved neither in the 1s, nor in the 70s, nor in the 80s, nor in the 90s, nor the 2000s, nor in the 2010s?
Not under socialism, not under capitalism, not under general secretaries, not under presidents, never?
At the same time, there is no such hatred towards Peter and other cities of millionaires, and there has never been such hatred towards their inhabitants ...
Think about it ...

[Overlock]

Quote: Odyssey

Extinction -688 thousand, a record since 2005, the number of births -1 million 435,8 thousand people, the lowest since 2002.
Especially catastrophic is the situation with men of working age, every 5 deaths in the Russian Federation.
The chairman of the commission of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation recently compared the situation with men to the situation in Syria, which has been at war for 10 years.

This is a breakthrough! Back!

[Jacket in stock]

After the introduction of maternity capital, we observed an increase in the birth rate for several years

yeah
Especially if you remember that at the same time the wave of the previous increase in the birth rate came up. And now it is over, and no womb capital is helping anymore, because there are stupidly fewer people of childbearing age. There is simply no one to give birth.

the coronavirus has had and continues to have a significant impact on the growth of mortality in the past year.

Ага.
And also the fight against him. When the cardiological and oncological hospitals were closed and they stopped treating the most massive and fatal ailments.

[aars]

Quote: Jacket in stock

When the cardiology and oncology hospitals were closed

This is the main reason for the increase in mortality.
In general, the number of planned operations, cardiological, abdominal ...
They jumped with a dull panic.

[Shahno]

There are many words, of course. But you cannot force a family to have more children .. If there is no confidence in the future or some kind of religious general culture. It won't come out. You can draw a video with a superweapon, but there is no extra child ... not so easy.

[Simargl]

Quote: Shahno

If there is no certainty about the future or some kind of religious general culture.

To give birth and raise children should be profitably! At least - psychological / status benefit (some kind of religious culture and / or status in society), at least not a deterioration in the financial situation ... none of this. And this is done exclusively by the state, the state of affairs suggests that the state does not need this.

[BIABIA]

Quote: Destiny

When people do not think about how to save every penny, tomorrow there will be work and housing of their own or not, when health care and education will be available to everyone, then the birth rate will be like in the Soviet Union, when people had all this guaranteed by the state. coronavirus ..

The coronavirus is just manna from heaven for officials. Happiness that was not expected. You can build everyone, cut everything, and they will also say thank you for your concern. An ingenious invention ...

[Jacket in stock]

the fertility rate (the number of children born to one woman) in 2020 will be 1,49, in 2019 it was 1,50.

well, here we are not alone.
In the traditional village way of life, each child is additional working hands.
And in the city, a child is an extra mouth, a freeloader. Especially when both parents are forced to go to work to feed themselves and their families, and grandparents are not at home either. They are at work, their retirement age has been raised.

[From Tomsk]

From my own experience, I can say that there are fewer migrants, because those who have been in the country have run out of work permits, and new ones are not allowed because of covid. Gazprom was given a quota at the end of last year as an exception. The rest were sent in all known directions. What kind of birth rate can there be if the burial allowance does not even reach 7 thousand? You can't even buy a coffin with this money. In order to NORMALLY support even one child, you need to earn about 200 thousand a month in Tomsk together. Because grandfathers and grandmothers do not sit with their grandchildren now, they themselves work, because it is impossible to live on a beggarly pension. Even if you miraculously arrange a child in a kindergarten, which is sorely lacking, and you both work, then you need a nanny, and this is 20-30 thousand a month, because children are often sick, and at work you cannot go to sick leave endlessly, because they will be fired ... It takes 10-15 thousand a month for gasoline in winter with warm-ups. Is the child sick? And put on drugs 6-7 thousand, etc. The killed "treshka" in Tomsk is at least 4-5 million. In a normal house there are already 6-7 million and more. What is the maternity capital here ?! Rosstat, together with Putin and other officials, has long lived in a different reality that suits them perfectly.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: From Tomsk

Even if you miraculously arrange a child in a kindergarten, which is sorely lacking, and you both work, then you need a nanny, and this is 20-30 thousand a month

Yeah, specifically for your child you need 200 thousand, and how will the nanny bring up her children, if you are only 20-30 for her then ready to pay?

[your1970]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: From Tomsk

Even if you miraculously arrange a child in a kindergarten, which is sorely lacking, and you both work, then you need a nanny, and this is 20-30 thousand a month

Yeah, specifically for your child you need 200 thousand, and how will the nanny bring up her children, if you are only 20-30 for her then ready to pay?

Yes, there is also a burial allowance dragged in - to justify the impossibility of supporting children in Tomsk, yeah ...

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: your1970

Yes, there is also a burial allowance dragged in - to justify the impossibility of supporting children in Tomsk, yeah ...

I'm interested in this kind of terry selfishness: "I need 200 thousand for the upbringing and maintenance of my child, and we will pay the nanny 25, but the fact that this nanny may have her own children and how she will support them does not bother us."

[your1970]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

Quote: your1970

Yes, there is also a burial allowance dragged in - to justify the impossibility of supporting children in Tomsk, yeah ...

I'm interested in this kind of terry selfishness: "I need 200 thousand for the upbringing and maintenance of my child, and we will pay the nanny 25, but the fact that this nanny may have her own children and how she will support them does not bother us."

Uh-huh ... And as a nanny, the mortgage will pull in 4-5 lam ...
I have long been convinced that ordinary people with an income of 100 per month cannot have more than 000 children. Usually 2 ... or in general 1 - you have to live, business is serious - I have no time for them, the children will ruin the wallpaper or scratch the laminate - we bought them for 0 and the like ...

[Ben Gunn]

Quote: Ros 56

And they didn't try to pay normal money to their citizens

Eeeeee, don't rock the boat, rats are scared!

[sergo1914]

Quote: Ben Gunn

Quote: Ros 56

And they didn't try to pay normal money to their citizens

Eeeeee, don't rock the boat, rats are scared!

Not. We are used to it.

[Andre___86]

Well, commentators, everyone went to fulfill their duty to the Fatherland and family for one thing !!!

[Doccor18]

Quote: 210ox

Four sons

Cool!
I have two, though the gender is different (so you can count as four ), but the rest is the same as yours. The wife is at home, and I am in two jobs ...

[fa2998]

Quote: Finches

The main hope here is to increase the birth rate on maternity capital,

What the hell is maternity capital. It's a penny, and you can only use it for certain purposes, and even then not now, but a few years later! And the child wants to eat right now! It's inconvenient to talk about "children's" ashes. The family income will have to be divided no longer by two, but three, four.
How many a child to "put on his feet" modestly.15 thousand in a month x12 months x18 years. It turns out without further study more than 3,2 million. Children are driven into poverty (with our salaries). Maternal capital can be shoved into one place.

[Million]

Some sort of sabotage against the citizens of Russia.
Moreover, the king adds butter:

The slogan "Russia for the Russians" only harms the Russians, said President Vladimir Putin at a meeting with the leaders of the State Duma factions

[Vadim Ananyin]

The main reason is salary and housing. From the 90s they paid 350 rubles every three months in 000-94
A dollar - 5000 rubles was worth = 70 dollars. Once every three months! 98 years what happened to the ruble? Well here's another example
in 2000-2001 he received 2750 rubles - dollars cost 35-37 r, count yourself further!
Well, now, back in 2012 - 12000 rubles, I don't remember how much.
2020 -20 thousand-dollars worth 70 rubles That's all!

[iouris]

General reasoning. Nobody presents graphs and forecast estimates of changes in the population and working-age population, draft resource. The qualitative characteristics of human resources are also important. It would be an "oil painting".

[Old Horseradish]

There is such a scientific word as genocide.

[your1970]

Quote: Old Horseradish

There is such a scientific word as genocide.

In Switzerland and especially Finland, where are 1,4 children, ALSO genocide? Do they know?

[sergo1914]

Anyway, Navalny, Soros and the State Department are to blame. Well, another mine from Lenin.

[TermNachTer]

Any object (phenomenon) must be studied "wider and deeper", in comparison with others. Is this a situation only in Russia or in other countries too? For example, I can tell you a country that is very close)))) there, in 30 years, they managed to "lose", according to various estimates, from 12 to 17 million people, with the initial 52 million. And no one is worried there)))

[sleeve]

Ahhh! They brought the countryuuu!
Here it is probably useless to achieve something. I mean the internet. Seriously. "Medicine collapsed". You mean the results of the epidemic-in fig. Well, at worst it will be called putinoid. Moreover, they calmly deny people the right to reason. What does it mean to postpone pregnancy due to an epidemic? No, as a herd we continue to copulate statistically, but the results are from malnutrition, poverty and ruined medicine. Who "made" all this? Naturally by power. Who organized this power? Well? Woooot ...
And let's all the same from the heavens of the Internet to earth? Let's look at such factors as quarantine overload in primary care and, with it, an increase in child and maternal mortality. Really "delayed" pregnancies. And in connection with the direct disease and "until better times." Direct additional mortality. No additional migration. And even factors. Not? Difficult and dreary? Is it hard to take the results of mortality and fertility decline in five to seven European countries and derive a demographic constant?
I can hear it directly: calmness will ruin us. Of course. And alarmism never. I’m not a single "analysis" normal on a topic related to anything government, even statistics, even agriculture, this "analysis" is not. Only negative and only positive. In the complex, no one is ready. It is long and articles and even comments are long.
And goodbye ... Who is ready to throw money into the Life Saving Fund and buy back from mothers who are not ready for motherhood their children without abortions? I came for an abortion, signed a refusal, received maternity allowance and parted with the child. Who is ready to advise how to levy it legally? Who will propose how to turn these 500-600 thousand abortions into at least half of the citizens of Russia?

[nikvic46]

Only healthy offspring will give us good demographics. Human dormitory is not a garden that can be rejuvenated. There are periods when the population is aging. And nothing can be done about it. And as for abortion, there is another threat. Some women, for various reasons, just It is not recommended to give birth. To have a healthy generation, you need to work hard for security organizations that monitor the quality of food, water, air. The rest is all from the evil one.

[your1970]

Quote: aleksejkabanets

A village today cannot exist without collective farms.

Well, let's say socialism ... And how to drive workers into the village? Those who have left for the city will not come back. Do you just think that the USSR began to shoot a film about a beautiful village by sunset? In the early 70s, he called to construction sites and BAM - and by the end of the 70s he sang sharply about the beautiful life in the countryside?
The people abruptly began to disperse - the guys in the army then to the city or to the institute, then again to the city, the girls marry the city or the institute ...
It was necessary to plow in the village, but the city ...
This is still Sholokhov mentioned in the "virgin soil" - "defended at the machine

[ivan2022]

Quote: your1970

And how to drive workers to the village? Those who have left for the city will not come back. Do you just think that the USSR began to shoot a film about a beautiful village by sunset?

Bad dancers even their own ... villages and cities interfere. The USSR had its own problems, but now the Russian Federation in terms of GDP per capita is number 50+ in the world. Given that the Russian Federation is one of the richest countries in the world.
There used to be such a saying among the Germans: "good country, but it's a pity that

[your1970]

Quote: ivan2022

Bad dancers even have their own.

The USSR was a bad dancer - when did the village start to scatter by the end of the 70s?

[ivan2022]

Quote: your1970

The USSR was a bad dancer - when did the village start to scatter by the end of the 70s?

----------
Arguments like "the USSR was ....." - mean about the fact; "the red master was ..", but now; "white master was ...." - this is the reasoning of the serfs of the 17th century. Who survived to the 21st

There are two forces in life; Law of the state and custom of society
And A.S. Pushkin believed that it was the "custom of a despot among people" This idea explains a lot.

The laws of the USSR were objectively the most democratic ..
It is enough to open "Wiki" - and look at the article "USSR legislation", "USSR Constitution". In the CPSU, or even earlier, in the VKPB, the main statutory principle was "democratic centralism" - that is, all bosses were elected and accountable to meetings and congresses.
A level of democracy that does not exist now. From 1923 to 1941, Stalin did not occupy any positions in the Government of the USSR!
And what is in practice? In fact, he was the King. In fact, the relationship is like in the 17th century. Tsar and boyars. The level of development of society, its traditions, determine everything! And in the 21st century, also the Tsar and the boyars.

Conclusion No. 1so; not that the USSR was "bad dancers", something else is more important. "Russia is ruled directly by God, otherwise it is impossible to explain at all how it still exists." / X. Minich /
That's what surprises! How is it that the society of the 17th century survived to the 21st?

Conclusion number 2; the fact that someone was "running away" somewhere is all "seeds" ... Even after the victorious war of 1812, there was a wave of emigration - tens of thousands (!) of Kutuzov's soldiers fled to Europe ... And even the Decree of Alexander 1 - from 1813 they did not return. "Nafig run from here if you can" - this is the thought that the most fortunate come to. !

[evgen1221]

Well, they gave money for the children, but they scored about his future life. They gave money and immediately took it away with inflation and taxes, but the child, that is, wants to. Give people work and faith in the future, and they will give birth even without mother capital. The approach to demography is one-sided. Although it is more dear to them all to replace and exploit migrants to the fullest.

[Ronald Reagan]

Give people jobs and faith in the future

Here you read such "pearls", and you understand that the abolition of serfdom was a mistake.

Although it is more dear to them all to replace and exploit migrants to the fullest.

Migrants are the future of Russia. Perhaps this is the only way to get labor and support the economy.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Ronald Reagan

Migrants are the future of Russia. Perhaps this is the only way to get labor and support the economy.

In other words, migrants + indigenous peoples (in particular the remnant of Russians) = Russia in the future. New people. Then the new Russia will finally save the Russians from "the first of its two troubles." The topic of "natural selection, when the strongest survive" is popular among the Russian people - this will be its natural solution !!! We couldn't do it ourselves, other nations will help.

[alstr]

The topic is already hackneyed, but nevertheless.
It is necessary to divide the problem of demography into two:
1. General development trends that are characteristic of all countries
2.local trends

If we talk about general trends, then there are several empirically derived trends:
1. The higher the standard of living, the lower the birth rate
2. The higher the level of education among women and their involvement in the general economic process (ie, the more women work and make a career), the lower the birth rate.
3. Reducing fertility is easier than raising it

These tendencies are very difficult to combat.
In fact, there are only two examples when something was done to reverse these trends.
1. This is Hitler's Germany with his program of reviving the German nation
2. China - with its birth control.

AND EVERYTHING.

As for local trends, they usually only slightly correct general trends, but they are not able to completely overpower them.

If we talk about our country, the economic condition of the 90s only exacerbated the problems. And mate capital could only parry them, and even then not completely.

[your1970]

Well, at least one sane comment ...
And then some slogans - "give the dough and we will give birth", yeah ...

[Alexander X]

My example: Tver region, 2020. We need to cover the roof of the bee hibernation. I went around / phoned 2 neighboring villages. Everyone is "lazy, later, now is not up to it." .. Found a Turk! A donkey in Russia 5 years ago. He said that even though he was working at the facility now, he would come in the evenings and on outings and would do everything. And he did ... I had to dig a new well. Again, I went to the neighboring villages to look for workers. I found ... a brigade of Tajiks. For 2 days, 8 rings were lowered. The rings themselves were brought, unloaded, dug up, where the vine indicated ... And ours just whine that there is no work ... There is work in the village. Not easy, but there is ...
And I don’t understand: here above all the government accuses that people are paid little money, so they do not breed. Then why in poor Tajikistan, Africa, etc. countries do they breed like rabbits? But in rich Europe burghers do not give birth?

[Kronos]

Because children are capital in poor countries plus other factors like religion, traditions, etc. In rich countries, children are big expenses.

[your1970]

Quote: Kronos

Because children are capital in poor countries plus other factors like religion, traditions, etc. In rich countries, children are big expenses.

Your statement confirms that we have Europe and at least not a poor country.

[Alexey Koshkarov]

Because there is something to eat and a place to sleep. And for half a year there are snowdrifts, you can only chew the snow and sleep like a bear in a snowdrift

[Roman070280]

Vladimir Putin spoke about the introduction of coupons for the poor

[Jager]

Give the young people confidence in the future - free education, medicine and affordable housing with a good income without crises and wars (and not at 10% per annum for 20 years, giving 50% of the salary) - and I will be the first to make at least three new citizens for statistics.
And so instead of "confidence in the future" - a confident tomorrow.

[vlad.baryatinsky]

Quote: Bolt Cutter

Saying that you fell in love is not the right word

confidential.
Probably confidential. I was smitten too
But the image is legal.

For me, not critical.
The main thing is that you did not remain "indifferent" to my spelling.

[DED_peer_DED]

The ratio of births to deaths is even worse.

Our generation will ALREADY not live under communism, so why ...?

Tightening the legislation, according to 60% of doctors, will lead to disaster.
And only 13% of doctors believe that tightening abortion laws will lead to an improvement in the demographic situation in the country.

60% to 13% of doctors unequivocally speak of their distribution according to ethnicity.

For this reason alone, we have already lost more than 80 thousand people. And this, unfortunately, is not the limit.

In the summer, neighbors took the deceased from the morgue. When they first visited this institution, the workers of the latter asked them the question, "Would you like to record the deceased as dead from coronavirus?" (FROM)
Died of a heart attack.
Those. not even with him, but from him! Stirlitz with Sherlock Holmes - both are resting.
If, for example, a person died with helments, then it is necessary to write that from them. But they write that from the crown.
Not with her, but from.
Those. all -

disappeared and at the moment there is only one cause of illness and death - the coronavirus, his mother.
The other day, acquaintances were taking the deceased from the morgue. Like the coronavirus, this, this ...
According to the workers, the coffin is covered with bleach inside, and the same is outside. The coffin was not allowed to be opened.
??
Plague ???

[your1970]

And we wrote one in the insurance saying, the grandfather died of diarrhea and wrote it down like a crown - and how the grandmother whispered to the hospital Before that I heard about a couple of cases
Rather, they will write that from a machine gun burst in the heel.
It is checked that is elementary and checking even with pieces of paper is quite possible

[DED_peer_DED]

Quote: your1970

It is checked that is elementary and checking even with pieces of paper is quite possible

You have to dig it out.

[your1970]

There was no exhumation; they calculated the documents.

[DED_peer_DED]

calculated according to the documents.

Do you still believe in "documents"?
Well, really?
Can't you see changes in the last couple or three years?
In terms of the presence of "truth" wherever possible?

[your1970]

Quote: DED_peer_DED

Do you still believe in "documents"?
Well, really?

Why not believe that? The head doctor retroactively flew on jet propulsion ...

[Alexey Koshkarov]

Give young families housing and stable jobs with decent pay. Our greedy government does not want to do this. And so it turned out - the most common name for newborn boys is Mahmud.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Alexey Koshkarov

Our greedy government does not want to do this. And so it turned out - the most common name for newborn boys is Mahmud.

Uh-huh .... and the "Mahmuds" have such good power that they had to go to other countries to earn money.
"Our greed" is the greed of both those who pay and those who humbly hawala what they are given. Everyone wants to be like the rich - they donate their families, their children in the womb - under the knife ...
How do you please express yourself; "That's it!" Not every nation has the right to trample on the Earth on which it lives. Someone will have to go into oblivion ...

[pyc.arpeccop tornado 150]

Last year, Russia lost half a million people. There has not been such a shocking decline in population for 15 years.

The fertilizing influence of the CPSU has disappeared, and the ancestors of the founders are now working in the Yzral region and, it should be noted, successfully.

Israel population change since 1949.

There has been a noticeable acceleration in growth since the early 90s.

[ivan2022]

Quote: pyc.arpeccop tornado 150

Population change in Israel since 1949

GREAT! It is the Jews' fault that the Russian demographics are bad. How we left, here is generally complete ......... c! It happens that "nowhere", "once" and even "nothing", but we just have "no one" .......

[pyc.arpeccop tornado 150]

but we just "no one"

Some. 85% of the top of the Bolsheviks, the Cheka-NKVD and the Red Army actually took part in demography on the fields of the civil war.
And then, the created machine, zealously defended their interests in the Second World War.
And so, breaking through a fence in the Palestinians, they abandoned it as unnecessary.
Now lying in the dust, completely unnecessary? No, something else can ... for the occupied territories.

Well, and nothing that the unvaccinated themselves, most importantly "light-eyed" for 25 euros, almost all with immunity.

[Victor Demchenko]

my dear compatriot! Doesn't it seem to all of you that our (?) government under the "wise" leadership of our irreplaceable is confidently leading the country to a bloody day? to date, food prices have quietly increased from 15 to 80%, the payment for heat supply has grown sharply by 82%, and when asked to the competent authorities (administration, housing and communal services department), babble sounds in response ... it may be time to ask with officials, including the president? because he is an OFFICIAL! and receives a salary from our taxes!

[besser best]

Everyone lies - everyone lies! Read the DOTA (who is interested, the General Theory of Management is Enough), it says in black and white that everything depends on the QUALITY of management. And since the quality of management is slightly different from zero (in the negative direction) - what can we talk about ??? And our zeroed one makes SUPER surprised eyes: it doesn't know anything and doesn't guess anything! The end of the 40s and the beginning of the 50s, the situation in the USSR was much worse - but everything worked out! It is easy for a zeroed person to chatter (that is, brazenly lie!) About the fault of the USSR that the state is to blame for the current demographic decline in the country of the Russian Federation, it is very strange, however!

[Alexey Afanasiev]

In the Russian Federation, the number of women of childbearing age is decreasing, because the generation of the 90s, the smallest, is entering this age. And no government can do anything about it

[Alexey Rogomanov]

I think so: We have a state. Millions are engaged in security, but even the Gundyaevites do not think about national security. Those. debit-credit does not converge on youth-old age. I propose: Women should earn by being MOMS! Reformat all social programs for this business. Let me remind you that any IMF or Eurobank first of all demands to cut off social services. So what to cut if it's easier to rebuild it yourself? Women under 35 should not be hired in civil service. Each woman receives depending on the number of children. This is one thing.
Other, the men themselves should want to have children. And for this you need to build a family, as in Islam. To abolish the family code, on Allah, it does not work, and only gnawed the property of the Crucified!