Military Review

The history of the creation of a thermoelectric current generator

130
In 2020, on the pages of "Military Review" appeared article about stories creation of a small-sized solar battery BSP-1, which was developed by order of the Ministry of Defense for the specific needs of the special radio communications service of the GRU General Staff.


The text of the article stated:

“Based on the current situation, the management of the GRU General Staff set the task of the operational and technical management to conduct R&D on the creation of portable power sources for such situations.

Specifically, this issue began to be dealt with by the department under the leadership of Ph.D. Colonel Evseenkov P.T.

Two low-budget R&D projects began almost simultaneously, and in one case they used the principle of converting solar energy into electrical energy, and in the other they used semiconductor thermoelectric converters to obtain the required charging current. "

Partisan bowler hat


During the discussion, information appeared about the fate of the second R&D, during which one more rare product was created, the fate of which is practically unknown to this day.

“A generator based on semiconductor thermoelectric converters with the same output characteristics was developed for the northern regions.

R&D was carried out and prototypes were created, which passed State tests ”.

But the product did not go into mass production for a number of reasons, which will be described below.

The maximum charging current of the developed thermoelectric generator, as well as the current for powering the electronic equipment, was 2 A at a voltage from 12,6 to 13,8 V, as described in the TTZ. And the minimum is –100 mA, for a sealed 10NKGTs-1d battery, so that it does not explode during charging.

To understand where the idea of ​​creating such a power source came from, one must turn to the history of the appearance in the USSR of the first thermoelectric generators (TEG), which were created in the interests of the intelligence agencies of the Red Army.

The first practical application of semiconductor thermoelements was carried out in the USSR during the Great Patriotic War under the direct supervision of A.F. Ioffe.

When the Great Patriotic War began, physicists of the Leningrad Physics and Technology Institute developed specifically for partisans and sabotage groups thrown into the rear of the enemy, a thermoelectric generator TG-1, known as the "partisan bowler".

The work on its creation was supervised by one of Ioffe's colleagues, Yuri Maslakovets, who became interested in thermoelectric phenomena in semiconductors even before the war.

TG-1 really looked like a pot, filled with water and installed on a fire.

The compounds of antimony with zinc and constantan, an alloy based on copper with the addition of nickel and manganese, were used as semiconducting materials.

The temperature difference between the fire and the water reached 300 ° and was sufficient to generate a current in the thermoelectric generator. As a result, the guerrillas charged the batteries of their radio station. The power of TG-1 reached 10 watts.

The production of the generator was launched in March 1943 at Research Institute 627 with an experimental plant No. 1. The principle of operation of this "pot" is well understood from the following figure:


Source: armystandard.ru

In the post-war period, work on such equipment was carried out in the interests of the national economy in order to provide power supply to remote areas and sparsely populated areas. And several types of thermoelectric generators of different designs were created for low-power consumers.

Serially produced, for example, devices called TGK-3 and TEGK-2-2, designed in the form of a nozzle on the glass of a standard kerosene lamp:

The history of the creation of a thermoelectric current generator
Source pbs.twimg.com

Some were designed in the form of kerosene gas burners (wick kerosene burners for cooking) of the TGK-9, TGK-10 and TGU-1 models. More powerful, but without the accompanying lighting effect.


Source: tvzvezda.ru

True, it should be noted that thermoelectric generators were not widely used in the country, since they had low power. And their production was subsequently reduced.

In the Armed Forces, their development was not carried out until the eighties, when urgent need forced them to return to the creation of small-sized power supplies.

The reasons were described in detail in the article on the solar battery BSP-1, which explained why these products were created.

Having received information about scientific developments in this area at the USSR Academy of Sciences, it was decided to conduct two research projects in different organizations in order to identify the possibility of creating such equipment with given weight and overall characteristics and an output power of about 25–30 watts.

One R&D was carried out at the Specialized Design and Technology Bureau at the Chernivtsi State University. And the other is in the Leningrad branch of the All-Russian Research Institute of Power Sources. The Chernivtsi SKTB "Fonon" investigated the possibility of creating three different TEGs with different parameters for some situations.

In particular, the first option provided for receiving a charging current from a vest on a person. And the temperature difference between the body and the environment was used. Along the way, he could perform the functions of a body armor in certain cases, but not a high level of protection.

This option was not developed, since a too small temperature difference gave a small current.

The second option provided for obtaining a voltage of 12,6 V from a thermal charge or thermite block, which, during the burning time, could provide the TEG current necessary for transmitting a short message or signal in certain situations through a HF radio station.

The third option provided for the creation of a TEG for long-term operation, of the type that was used during the war years.

Unfortunately, this organization did not go further than research work. Since the capabilities of SKTB "Fonon" did not allow organizing something serious even at the level of a small series. Therefore, further cooperation was terminated. Despite the fact that the work was completed in full, and the commission accepted it, the organization refused to carry out the R&D work.

Souvenir


More serious scientific work under the code "Souvenir" was carried out at the Leningrad branch of VNIIIT, which at that time was headed by E.K. Iordanishvili, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Honored Scientist of Russia, Academician and Vice President of the International Thermoelectric Academy, student of Academician A.F. Ioffe.

The contractors were offered a choice to develop several TEG variants, which had different types of cooling and different types of burners, in order to increase the efficiency of the entire product. But on the part of the operation service, a strict requirement was set for ROC - the product should not use liquid for evaporation. Fan cooling could not be used. And also the use of any catalytic burners or some other solutions that would raise the price of the product and reduce its reliability were excluded.

Therefore, in the final version, the developers proposed to use the usual "Bumblebee 2" stove as a heating element.


Source: littlehobby.livejournal.com

With specially designed equipment, an approximate sketch of which is shown in the figure.


Product "Souvenir", where 1 - electronic unit, 2 - air-cooled radiator, 3 - thermoelectric converters.

The output power of the developed TEG "Souvenir" gave the required parameters. And the design itself met the requirements of GOST in group 1.14. In other words, it allowed landing in GK-30 and provided for a temperature range of operation from –50 to +50 ° С.

The capacity of the gasoline "Bumblebee" was enough for 5-6 hours of continuous operation, which was quite enough to fully charge the 10NKP-6c "Belt" battery in the field. Not to mention the fact that at the same time food could be cooked in any pot, saucepan or frying pan, which were placed on top of the product itself.

The total weight of the entire product in the assembly was about 5 kg, which did not go beyond the customer's requirements for weight and dimensions.

In order to finally decide on the choice of a portable power source, it was decided to send prototypes of the TEG "Souvenir" manufactured at the plant for military tests to one of the special forces brigades.

Six months later, a test report was received, which confirmed all the characteristics of these products. But, unfortunately, it was indicated that it was not advisable to use them in reconnaissance groups. Because it is easier and more convenient to take another charged "Belt".

Perhaps if this product was sent to the 40th Army (Afghanistan), then the conclusion would be different. But such tests were forbidden to be carried out outside the borders of our country. Therefore, we limited ourselves to a conclusion approved by an official of the Special Forces brigade.

Based on this conclusion, at a joint meeting of the customer and the contractors, it was decided not to launch the product into the series. And save the documentation in the archives of the GRU General Staff and the Ministry of Electrotechnical Industry for a possible resumption of the release of these products in wartime or in any other critical situations.

I was forced to recall this product by information on the network, where an advertisement for a modern TEG produced in Perm and having the following characteristics was placed:

“Thermoelectric universal generator B25-12.

Converts thermal energy into electrical energy.

Average service life is at least 10 years.

Output voltage - 12 V. Output power - not less than 25 W. Mounting surface temperature - no more than 400 ° C.

Dimensions, mm: 252x252x170. Weight - no more than 8,5 kg.

Seller of Sistemy STK Perm LLC.
Link

Unwittingly comparing what was developed 35 years ago for the needs of the GRU General Staff, one comes to the conclusion that the modern TEG is inferior in weight to the "Souvenir" product. And, moreover, the presence of two coolers drastically reduces the reliability of operation in the field. Not to mention that it is problematic to cook food on such a product.

It so happened that the "Souvenir" product outstripped the current developments in this TEG segment for many years ahead, which, of course, arouses respect for the work of those who created it.

Сonclusion


In conclusion, I would like to note that in the eighties nothing similar to the "Souvenir" product was created in the world. And the closest portable TEG, manufactured in Japan, weighed about 18 kg, was intended for indoor use and was powered by liquefied gas.

More powerful installations were produced. But they excluded their mobile use by small groups of military personnel. And therefore, the army was not in service.

At present, in connection with the development of the Far North regions and the deployment of our units there, it is possible that the idea of ​​providing portable TEGs will be returned again. But on a new level.

And then the experience of developing the "Souvenir" product will be in demand.

Some of the peacekeeping missions of our armed forces are also pushing for this, when powerful generators of electrical energy are used at small observation posts, which require high fuel consumption for an internal combustion engine. This is costly and sometimes due to the impossibility of timely delivery of large volumes of fuel due to weather conditions, especially in the mountains or in remote areas.

I hope that this article will open another little-known page of Soviet military developments. And he will tell someone how to solve the problem of providing electricity to small consumers, if the need arises.

I think this will help our Armed Forces and our people not only now but also in the future.

Because the idea of ​​using a TEG is still relevant for some situations in hard-to-reach areas or in emergency situations.
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  1. gridasov
    gridasov 17 February 2021 12: 31
    -9
    You need to understand that there is an elementary base of microelectronics and power methods for converting evil magnetic processes. Therefore, for this target problem, it is necessary to apply a fundamentally different method of concentration of magnetic fluxes. Then, in general, it is possible to extract energy from any elements of nature that have any linear dimension and to amplify the potential difference and current by the method of control and the concentration of magnetic fluxes. By the way, it's funny to observe that humanity does not develop electro-magnetic processes using a rotating magnetic flux and running-in forces. Again, it is possible to develop both conventional rotating mechanisms and a rotating magnetic field, or rather flows. For heating or maintaining the life of the temperature that provides a person, Tesla still proposed a generator of super high frequency, when air water microparticles cavitation. For all this, a certain amplitude frequency modulation of the oscillations is necessary.
    1. aars
      aars 17 February 2021 12: 41
      +10
      What's this?!
      What nafig break-in forces?
      A torsion bar operator in the gallery?
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 17 February 2021 12: 48
        -5
        If you clarify what torsional physical processes are, then I will explain what rolling moments of rotation are.
    2. Avior
      Avior 17 February 2021 12: 48
      +6
      uh huh. Only there no magnetic fluxes are used. A completely different working principle.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 17 February 2021 12: 51
        -8
        Magnetic flux management is optimally efficient. And the current amplification device is achieved by a simple device. Moreover, hardly
        whether it is worth focusing on a semi-finished product. We need the final high-quality result
    3. Insurgent
      Insurgent 17 February 2021 13: 01
      +8
      Quote: gridasov
      You need to understand that there is an elementary base of microelectronics and power methods for converting evil magnetic processes.

      A DO of microelectronics as an intermediate transmission link between the thermogenerator and the radio equipment used electromagnetic vibration transducers of direct current into a pulse one, for its further transformation into the voltages necessary for its power supply.



      The older generation can remember these in tube radios of old GAZ and MZMA models ...

      1. aars
        aars 17 February 2021 13: 04
        +4
        Amplifier for KSP-3?
        I guess?
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 17 February 2021 13: 10
          +3
          Quote: aars
          Amplifier for KSP-3?
          I guess?

          I can not know request , because I was looking for only an image of a vibration transducer, and took almost the first more or less illustrating its essence (in combination with a 6N2P double triode in the screen).
        2. dedusik
          dedusik 17 February 2021 14: 34
          +2
          No, this is a vibration transducer, it was connected to a transformer and was intended for anode power supply of the lamps. Worked on the principle of an ignition coil in a car
          Vibration transducer
          1. aars
            aars 17 February 2021 14: 53
            -1
            VPM2 is actually an electrometric converter.
          2. Insurgent
            Insurgent 17 February 2021 15: 22
            +3
            Quote: dedusik
            No, this is a vibration transducer, it was connected to a transformer and was intended for anode power supply of the lamps. Worked on the principle of an ignition coil in a car


            Not quite so ... The principle of operation of the vibration transducer is based on frequent-periodic closing-opening of contacts in the DC circuit with the receipt of pulses (quasi-AC) and their subsequent supply to the primary winding conventional transformer... A vibration transducer is actually a relay that operates with a relatively high frequency.

            The ignition coil, "bobbin", is built on the principle autotransformer...
            1. dedusik
              dedusik 17 February 2021 16: 00
              +2
              Well, as an electronic engineer who once worked with them, I explained on my fingers, without going into details, but in fact it is an electromechanical self-oscillating system.
              1. aars
                aars 17 February 2021 16: 37
                -1
                However - the one in the picture rather modulated the signal of a thermocouple or something similar.
                1. dedusik
                  dedusik 17 February 2021 18: 16
                  +2
                  What kind of thermocouple, where is it there - an ordinary "relay multivibrator"
                  Here is a more visual diagram of his work.
                  .
                  1. dedusik
                    dedusik 17 February 2021 18: 40
                    +1
                    By the way, anyone who wants to know more about how this device works can read the radio magazine for 1955 (http://archive.radio.ru/web/1955/02/052/;http://archive.radio.ru/web / 1955/02/053 /)
              2. gridasov
                gridasov 20 February 2021 17: 38
                -1
                I think that you were wondering how to optimize the transmission of impulses along the conductor with different types of modulated current. So the most effective type is direct current, but at the same time with a pulse coinciding in direction. True, the device is mechanical and it is not found anywhere except me. Pulse and constant current, so to speak in the vector, is optimal for reproduction and transmission and transformation. In this case, the discontinuity is ensured not probably large and not through devices that reduce the efficiency of the power process
            2. Ua3qhp
              Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 17: 28
              +2
              All modern switching power supplies work on this principle, only semiconductor switches are used instead of opening mechanical contacts.
              1. dedusik
                dedusik 17 February 2021 18: 48
                +1
                Quite right, but these converters were of 2 types: vibration inverters, generating alternating current and vibration converters, which generated direct current mechanically by switching contacts
                1. Ua3qhp
                  Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 19: 20
                  0
                  More often. as I think constant. it is for him the greatest demand. and then the variable must be rectified with diodes.
                  1. dedusik
                    dedusik 17 February 2021 19: 35
                    0
                    Yes, tube kenotrons or selenium bridges were used as rectifiers, half-wave rectification was not used in converters. It was then vibration transducers that began to do this.
            3. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 17 February 2021 18: 46
              +1
              A vibration transducer is actually a relay that operates with a relatively high frequency.

              Classic umformer, used in 30-50 years very widely.
              1. dedusik
                dedusik 17 February 2021 18: 51
                +1
                Umformer is a dynamo driven by an electric motor, i.e. motor-generator: there was both an electric motor and a dynamo on the same shaft
                PS Yes, it was later used to obtain a voltage of 400Hz.
                1. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 17 February 2021 19: 05
                  +1
                  That's right, it's a vibrator.
                2. Ua3qhp
                  Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 19: 22
                  +1
                  In short, the Umformer is a DC generator driven by an AC motor. although in principle it does not matter how to turn it, you can also use the internal combustion engine.
                  1. dedusik
                    dedusik 17 February 2021 19: 38
                    +1
                    Quote: Ua3qhp
                    In short Umformer is a DC generator driven by an AC motor

                    The fact of the matter is that the motor worked from a battery - if there is alternating current, it is easier to put a transformer with a rectifier smile
                    1. ccsr
                      17 February 2021 20: 33
                      +1
                      Quote: dedusik
                      The fact of the matter is that the motor worked from a battery - if there is alternating current, it is easier to put a transformer with a rectifier

                      Quite right, precisely in order to obtain a high anode voltage in those days, the battery was first used to rotate the engine in order to obtain alternating current in the generator connected to it:
                      Umformers are single-armature converters of low voltage direct current to high voltage direct current, used mainly for supplying anode circuits. Umformer is a combination (in one machine with a common magnetic system and a common shaft) of a parallel or mixed excitation electric motor and an independent excitation generator.

                      Interestingly, it was these devices that were widely used by our illegal radio operators even before the Great Patriotic War.
                      1. dedusik
                        dedusik 17 February 2021 21: 14
                        0
                        In the army (849th GRU training center) I encountered the legendary "North" _th, which operated from 2 elements of 3C and an umformer, which produced 250-280 volts of direct current, but it was already a self-propelled gun, since "Sever" operated from 4 anode biscuit batteries BAS-60 or BAS-80
                    2. Ua3qhp
                      Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 20: 49
                      0
                      Not easier. Then, in principle, there were no semiconductor diodes. therefore, direct current was obtained from the generator of the same name. This was later invented by selenium rectifiers. And the power mercury was out of business here.
                      1. dedusik
                        dedusik 17 February 2021 21: 25
                        0
                        Selenium valves appeared in 1933, and tube kenotrons 5Ts3S, 5Ts4S even earlier.
                        And I did not talk about power mercury winked
        3. 210ox
          210ox 17 February 2021 16: 34
          0
          Well, the Kipovites arrived in time! Good afternoon colleague.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 17 February 2021 13: 09
        -2
        Any element of microelectronics destabilizes the power process. Microelectronics are control devices - they heat up, they affect oscillatory processes, etc.
        1. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 19: 25
          +2
          The entire conversion technique is based on destabilizing a constant process, not only electronics. revolutions are the same. There will be no destabilization - there will be no change.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 20 February 2021 18: 44
            0
            You said correctly! However, it should be added that the paths must be subordinate to the selected process organization algorithms.
  2. Vadim Ananyin
    Vadim Ananyin 17 February 2021 12: 34
    +3
    I read about the initial developments in the USSR, but I have not heard about the Souvenir.
    I think that even now she could help out civilians in some cases.
    And there would be no price for charging a phone cell in a remote village in the absence of electricity or other trouble.
    Good article for development.
    1. your1970
      your1970 17 February 2021 12: 54
      0
      "As a result, the guerrillas charged Battery your radio station. "So batteries or rechargeable batteries ??? It's pointless to charge batteries ...
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 17 February 2021 13: 13
        +5
        Quote: your1970
        "As a result, the guerrillas charged the batteries of their radio station." So batteries or rechargeable batteries ??? It's pointless to charge batteries ...

        Rechargeable batteries - will it suit you?
        1. dedusik
          dedusik 17 February 2021 14: 44
          0
          By the way, before the war there was no sealed 10NKGTs-1d battery, they used mainly 2NKN-24
          1. ccsr
            18 February 2021 11: 49
            0
            Quote: dedusik
            By the way, there was no sealed 10NKGTs-1d battery before the war,

            Actually, this battery for Okolysh and Lapis was developed - before the war such systems were not even suspected.
            1. dedusik
              dedusik 18 February 2021 14: 34
              0
              Well, where did he take, "Okolysh" wink So it is a far post-war transmitter with a storage-manipulating device (NMU) for OBD communication.
              I have not worked with this anymore.
              1. ccsr
                18 February 2021 14: 48
                0
                Quote: dedusik
                Well, where did he take, "Okolysh"

                I was talking about the 10NKGTs-1d battery - it was specially developed to lighten the weight and reduce the dimensions of these products as much as possible. With a freshly charged battery, 20 communication sessions can be carried out.
                Quote: dedusik
                I have not worked with this anymore.

                These were standard products for special forces brigades in the eighties.
                1. dedusik
                  dedusik 18 February 2021 14: 50
                  +1
                  And I was engaged in OSNAZ equipment from 1967 to 1975.
                2. dedusik
                  dedusik 18 February 2021 14: 56
                  0
                  I am aware of the batteries, they were produced in our city by the Battery Plant drinks But I liked NKG-13 more, unkillable, I have been working for 50 years
      2. ccsr
        17 February 2021 13: 14
        +1
        Quote: your1970
        So batteries or rechargeable batteries ??

        Rechargeable batteries - it will be right.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 17 February 2021 13: 56
          -5
          And we need energy concentrators. Any tree, potato, lemon, and in general practically everything is extracted 1,5 volts of voltage. Then you just need to create a current and increase the energy density.
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 19: 28
            0
            Not 1,5 but removed. But as practice shows. not everything is so simple from "Mr. and straw" a decent current source does not work.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 20 February 2021 15: 42
              -1
              Of course you are right if you do not know that the evil current is a derivative of magnetic fluxes. And the flows have their own structure in the form of transformation of quantitative, geometrical vectorial and relative potential parameters. There will be no algorithm for variable parameters, spin, counteraction of the running-in forces of external sources, and the current can be simulated everywhere and always. Even from mr. Why there is a problem of the reproduction of the evil current - because people do not distinguish between its qualitative parameters. Read Tesla's works. Moreover, Tesla did not manage to understand and master everything.
              1. ccsr
                21 February 2021 12: 12
                +1
                Quote: gridasov
                Even from mr. Why there is a problem of the reproduction of the evil current - because people do not distinguish between its qualitative parameters. Read Tesla's works. Moreover, Tesla did not manage to understand and master everything.

                I belong to the practitioners, and therefore I would like to know where the production of electricity from Mr., tree bark, orange skins and from other materials that Tesla did not know about is practically realized. What should the officials responsible for this direction of energy development focus on in the Ministry of Defense?
          2. Simargl
            Simargl 17 February 2021 20: 12
            +1
            Quote: gridasov
            Any tree, potato, lemon, and in general practically everything is extracted 1,5 volts of voltage.
            the voltage depends on the galvanic pair: the higher the electronegativity difference, the higher the voltage ...

            Quote: gridasov
            Then you just need to create a current and increase the energy density.
            Oil oil. Here is the problem with the current. More precisely, with electrolytes and pole area.

            Although it is useless for the alternative to say this ...
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 20 February 2021 15: 37
              0
              as they say he said, he believed it
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 20 February 2021 16: 11
                +1
                Like BE ... this is what I was taught, and along the way it was tested in experiments and calculations.
                Well, if you don’t believe me, lemons and potatoes, even in winter, are no longer as expensive as 20 years ago (especially lemons), and getting sheet metal is not a problem.
                You take an electronegativity table, a multimeter, metal plates, a rheostat and check the data. You can get 1A current from lemon juice and copper plates from a very large area.
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 20 February 2021 16: 57
                  0
                  In general, this is about this and there is a conversation, namely, how to transform a certain area into such a form in order to obtain concentrated energy and, moreover, to obtain a high density of this energy. n zero
                  1. Simargl
                    Simargl 20 February 2021 18: 33
                    0
                    Quote: gridasov
                    namely, how to transform a certain area into such a form in order to obtain concentrated energy and, moreover, to obtain a high density of this energy
                    Disassemble the lithium battery.
                    1. gridasov
                      gridasov 20 February 2021 18: 48
                      -1
                      It is enough just to repeatedly raise both voltage and current. Batteries not only themselves are not constructively logical, but also in group bundles, for example, in electric cars, in their array they form zones of magnetic flux stress, which leads to destruction, etc.
                      1. Simargl
                        Simargl 20 February 2021 20: 46
                        0
                        Quote: gridasov
                        It is enough just to repeatedly raise both voltage and current
                        Just? Can these simple methods be announced? In outline. I understand a bit in this, because of the profession. And I don’t know simple methods.
                        Or is it so - zilch?
                      2. gridasov
                        gridasov 20 February 2021 21: 42
                        -2
                        write to Tesla, they only have a dozen patents on the location of the batteries, and the problem is not nearly solved. But I will say that by correctly positioning the battery cells, you can create an additional resource for them, namely, through the structure of magnetic processes. b
                      3. Simargl
                        Simargl 20 February 2021 22: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: gridasov
                        But I will say that by correctly positioning the battery cells, you can create an additional resource for them, namely, through the structure of magnetic processes
                        Stop! What are the easy methods of raising voltage and current? Or are you so - poke your fingers?
                        Clear. Okay. Ravings of a madman.
    2. your1970
      your1970 17 February 2021 18: 10
      0
      The batteries can just be disposable. Judging by the books and films, the partisans and scouts did not have enough of them for a long time. Therefore, I assumed that these were ordinary cells such as batteries for the TA-57. We worked it out, threw it out, asked for "fresh" ....
      If these are batteries, what's the problem with turning the dynamo with the whole detachment in turn to charge them?
  3. KCA
    KCA 17 February 2021 13: 30
    +3
    In fact, a battery is a common name, a battery will be correct - connecting several devices of the same type, devices into a single system or installation for effective joint action, in our case batteries, for example, a "car battery" is a battery of 6 cans (batteries)
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 17 February 2021 14: 00
      -4
      In general, anyone understands why the vast majority of material objects have 1,5 or so volts. And how, by this parameter, to determine the stability of the existence, so to speak, of these bodies.
      1. Simargl
        Simargl 20 February 2021 16: 13
        0
        Quote: gridasov
        In general, anyone understands why the vast majority of material objects have 1,5 or so volts
        Absolutely not! Cadmium batteries, lead - 1,2-1,3, zinc 1,5, Lithium 3,7 ... study the topic and do not make people laugh.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 20 February 2021 17: 24
          -1
          A hopeless naivete! Especially about lithium and their good quality
          1. Simargl
            Simargl 20 February 2021 18: 34
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            A hopeless naivete!
            I'll accuse incriminating ignorance.
            1. gridasov
              gridasov 20 February 2021 18: 50
              0
              I will not repeat myself twice! Ignorance always condemns, blames, and does not try to learn and know
              1. Simargl
                Simargl 20 February 2021 20: 44
                0
                Quote: gridasov
                does not try to learn and know
                And how to teach you if you are not trained: you are an instrument of knowledge, and in response you are the delirium of a militant dilettante.
                1. gridasov
                  gridasov 20 February 2021 21: 37
                  -1
                  Sorry, but I do not pretend to be dominated by intelligence. Therefore, you are right in everything, as regards the fact that sincerely defending the knowledge that was not obtained by you. And if you noticed, then it doesn't matter to me, accept what makes you think or not. But if you noticed, I intervene only in those issues that are designated as fundamental.
      2. dedusik
        dedusik 21 February 2021 18: 35
        0
        Elementary, Watson ©
        The values ​​of electrochemical potentials are a function of many variables and therefore exhibit a complex dependence on the position of metals in the periodic system. Thus, the oxidative potential of cations increases with an increase in the atomization energy of a metal, with an increase in the total ionization potential of its atoms and with a decrease in the hydration energy of its cations.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 21 February 2021 19: 26
          -1
          Please give the parametric properties of the concept of energy. That is, what parameters can be used to justify energy.
          1. dedusik
            dedusik 21 February 2021 20: 15
            +1
            Physics textbook at your service
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 17 February 2021 12: 35
    +3
    And I liked the "partisan bowler hat"! Original ....
  • businessv
    businessv 17 February 2021 12: 37
    +3
    Because the idea of ​​using a TEG is still relevant for some situations in hard-to-reach areas or in emergency situations.
    Still, the Union lost a lot due to the increased secrecy of army developments, which would greatly help our agricultural, and would simply make life easier for many people in the country, even if they were introduced into our everyday life, even with reduced characteristics. Thanks for the article, interesting! good
    1. Avior
      Avior 17 February 2021 12: 46
      +3
      there was nothing secret in this, the level of the journal Young Technician and school physics lessons.
      1. ccsr
        17 February 2021 13: 18
        +2
        Quote: Avior
        there was nothing secret about it,

        The TTZ for development was secret, if only because there was a complete list of requirements and characteristics, and from them it was possible to understand for which structures this product was intended. And this is already a military secret.
      2. businessv
        businessv 17 February 2021 14: 33
        +2
        Quote: Avior
        there was nothing secret in this, the level of the journal Young Technician and school physics lessons.

        In the laws of physics, of course, there was nothing secret, but try to get in your garage the product described in the article, or at least 1/2 of its characteristics! smile
    2. ccsr
      17 February 2021 12: 59
      +5
      Quote: businessv
      Still, the Union lost a lot due to the increased secrecy of army developments, which would greatly help our agricultural, and would simply make life easier for many people in the country,

      Just with "Souvenir" this problem did not exist, because the customer did not take a pose and gave the go-ahead to use the development for popular purposes. The management of LO VNIIIT, after agreement with the customer, easily found consumers for this product, and in particular the structures responsible for supplying the regions of the Arctic Circle and the Far North. As it turned out, a huge number of Buran snowmobiles over the summer period completely discharged their batteries and it was impossible to start them. Moreover, a large number of receivers and televisions among the peoples of the Far North also required recharging of batteries, and all year round. As I learned, the order from these organizations went for more than a dozen thousand, which opened up great prospects for mass production. But unfortunately, the Pravdinsky experimental plant of power sources in the Pushkin district of the Moscow region was simply not ready for such volumes, and the search for other serial manufacturers was delayed. Although if "perestroika" had not begun at that time, I think that in two or three years these products would have been produced at some enterprise of the USSR Ministry of Electrotechnical Industry in large quantities. Many people know how things were in the second half of the eighties and later in industry, and as it turned out, no one had ever gotten around to this product. This development had such a sad fate, although even now, if it is mass-produced, it will be in demand not only in our country, but also in some foreign countries.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 17 February 2021 13: 22
        +1
        Quote: ccsr
        This development had such a sad fate, although even now, if it is mass-produced, it will be in demand not only in our country, but also in some foreign countries.

        Are they producing stoves now? I have not seen them for a long time, in the sense of new, Russian.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 17 February 2021 18: 48
          +1
          Are they producing stoves now?

          Tourist produce, but not sure what ours. Perhaps Chinese.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 17 February 2021 19: 32
            -1
            Quote: Aviator_
            Tourist produce, but not sure what ours. Perhaps Chinese.

            I'm talking about the Bumblebee that was supposed to be used.
            Therefore, in the final version, the developers proposed to use the usual "Bumblebee 2" stove as a heating element.

            In the USSR, they seem to have been produced by several factories.
            1. ccsr
              17 February 2021 20: 41
              +1
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              In the USSR, they seem to have been produced by several factories.

              The "Souvenir" used the "Shmel-2" of the Leningrad plant "Arsenal". He met all the requirements of military acceptance.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 17 February 2021 21: 28
                -1
                Quote: ccsr
                The "Souvenir" used the "Shmel-2" of the Leningrad plant "Arsenal". He met all the requirements of military acceptance.

                And the development is really interesting for geologists, hunters, and all kinds of summer residents. I put this garbage on the stove, you can cook dinner and charge the phone, and even make lighting. LEDs don't eat much. The lamp eats almost 2000 lumens 24 watts.
                1. ccsr
                  18 February 2021 10: 21
                  +2
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  And the development is really interesting for geologists, hunters, and all kinds of summer residents.

                  That is why I remembered this development, because now it is best suited even for civilian needs, because it is too simple and very reliable. If you wish, if someone wants to serialize it, you can find documents and even the performers of this work. True E.K. Iordanishvili has already died, but the head of the department, Pokorny E.G., who led this development, was even listed as a founder in St. Petersburg in the XNUMXs, so the ends can be found. And if there are funds, then the serial production of this product can be revived.
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 17 February 2021 18: 08
        0
        A huge number of "Burans" do not have accumulators, well, they did not think to put them there, there is ignition from Magdino. So a little more reliable than battery ignition. Yes, and televisions were not particularly observed among the peoples of the North, well, about 40-50 km from the TV tower and there is no signal. And some craftsmen made gas generators from engines from motorcycle wheels and automobile generators. The idea of ​​thermogenerators is certainly interesting, but unfortunately not very useful. It is easy to make a thermocouple, take a nichrome wire and a copper one, twist and weld the ends, here's a thermocouple, heat the twist, you get 1,2 volts.
        1. ccsr
          17 February 2021 18: 47
          +2
          Quote: Free Wind
          So slightly more reliable than battery ignition

          And yet they were:
          The battery for the Buran snowmobile must have excellent starting current at low temperatures. The battery for the snowmobile snowmobile 640 must provide a high starting current, regardless of the circumstances. In addition, the power supply must not lose current too quickly.

          https://akbmoscow.ru/blog/kakoy-akkumulyator-dlya-snegokhoda-buran/
          Quote: Free Wind
          Yes, and televisions were not particularly observed among the peoples of the North, well, about 40-50 km from the TV tower and there is no signal.

          So they also had radios.
          But this is not the point, but the fact that the Ministry of Defense was not at all concerned, and it was about the interests of the Ministry of Electrotechnical Industry. By the way, the shepherds in the mountains also needed similar products - they went to pastures for several months.
          Quote: Free Wind
          The idea of ​​thermogenerators is certainly interesting, but unfortunately not very useful.

          A strange conclusion, given that they are mass-produced.
        2. Simargl
          Simargl 17 February 2021 20: 17
          0
          Quote: Free Wind
          you get 1,2 volts.
          Does the indicator LED light up from 3-4 consecutive TPs?
          1. KVIRTU
            KVIRTU 26 February 2021 11: 03
            0
            Most LEDs have an operating voltage of 3 V. And single Peltier modules usually supply 12V. For lighting i.e. connect 4 LEDs in series.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 26 February 2021 13: 54
              +1
              Quote: KVIRTU
              Most LEDs have an operating voltage of 3V
              I know it. Once upon a time, even advertising panels were soldered.

              Quote: KVIRTU
              Oduli Peltier is usually 12V
              Now we read carefully:
              Quote: Simargl
              The indicator LED will light up from 3-4 consecutive TP?
              Even more carefully, to which I replied:
              Quote: Free Wind
              here is a thermocouple, you heat the twist, you get 1,2 volts.
              I'm not very good at imagining a thermocouple in the form of a twist, from which even the LED will light up ...
              1. KVIRTU
                KVIRTU 27 February 2021 11: 09
                +1
                Was inattentive :). "The voltage is small, in the range of 1-70 microvolts per degree." Those. more than a dozen TPs will be needed.
                1. Simargl
                  Simargl 27 February 2021 12: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: KVIRTU
                  The magnitude of the voltage is small
                  EMF is microscopic.
                  1. KVIRTU
                    KVIRTU 28 February 2021 09: 14
                    0
                    Yes you are right. Therefore, all the same, generator modules from Cryotherm. This is not an advertisement :)
      3. ycuce234-san
        ycuce234-san 18 February 2021 00: 52
        0
        "Moreover, a large number of receivers and televisions among the peoples of the Far North also required recharging the batteries, and all year round."

        Thermoelectricity does not stand still now and the latest technology trend is thermoelectricity in ferrofluids. It will probably still have its say and play its role in geothermal heat pumps in buildings.
        As for history, this generator is also an example of an instructive mistake in the choice of technologies. After all, had the path of a "steam engine" been chosen, its developers would have made a "reverse refrigerator" - a hermetic circuit with an electric generator and a mini-steam engine or even a turbine suspended on liquid or gas bearings. Even modern refrigerators are able to work for years and old refrigerators were generally highly tenacious. In the same way, this device would work for years and somewhere in a remote winter hut or camp, mountain pasture. It would be easy to repair it, no more difficult than household refrigeration equipment, perhaps even in camp conditions, if there is a blowtorch and a container with high-temperature freon (kerosene, alcohol, etc.).
        And now there is another problem very urgent - there is no broadcasting on long and medium waves for such sparsely populated areas.
        1. ccsr
          18 February 2021 12: 00
          +1
          Quote: ycuce234-san
          After all, if the path of the "steam engine" were chosen and its developers would make the "refrigerator the other way around" -

          By the way, in the eighties, a small-sized lightweight refrigerator was being developed at the same institute, ordered by military doctors, which did not have rotating parts and would be powered by a battery. It was intended for nurses to transport severed limbs frozen from the battlefield to larger hospitals where neurosurgeons could perform operations. Now such thermal containers are used to transport donor organs, but in the eighties it was still a wonder. So the topic of thermoelectric converters is very interesting, and for military purposes as well.
          1. ycuce234-san
            ycuce234-san 18 February 2021 12: 22
            +2
            It was probably not a thermoelectric refrigerator. Most likely, they took a much more familiar absorption ammonia refrigerator. It is convenient in that it can work without electricity and from any heater - a diesel burner or a fire, which is very important for field conditions.
            And ammonia water in cylinders (distillate with dissolved ammonia) is also an excellent working fluid for the above mechanical electric generator, freezing only at -30.
    3. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 19: 31
      +1
      The Soviet Union lost not from secrecy, but from the unwillingness of industry to do something new. until kicked.
  • Avior
    Avior 17 February 2021 12: 42
    +4
    such thermogenerators on sale are full of thermocouples that are on semiconductor Peltier-Seebeck elements. and the elements themselves, too, by the way.
    There are both for tourists and for other purposes.

    1. Genry
      Genry 17 February 2021 13: 56
      +1
      The mention of Peltier, in this case, is illiteracy.
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 February 2021 16: 35
        0
        I know
        But this is how they are called, although it is mistaken.
        Correctly Seebeck
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 17 February 2021 16: 49
        0
        Mention of Peltier
        , just a massive concept !? Why so at once ... wink Above is the design in the photo, personal experience: on an assembly of 10 pieces. TEC1-12705, consistently achieved a maximum of 5 W, on dry fuel in "combat conditions" of the wild, with an active cooler on a copper heat sink .., despite the fact that the radiator had to be profiled and polished contact pads for better heat distribution over the surface of the array of elements and using a thermal interface is not cheap ...
    2. ccsr
      17 February 2021 14: 33
      +1
      Quote: Avior
      such thermogenerators on sale are full of thermocouples that are on semiconductor Peltier-Seebeck elements. and the elements themselves, too, by the way.
      There are both for tourists and for other purposes.

      They really are, just what you brought, cannot be used in the desert and in the mountains, especially to the level of snow. And it is also problematic to use them in the steppe hilly areas, which is why it was necessary to create a universal TEG.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 17 February 2021 12: 56
    +1
    In fact, interest in TEG continues to grow, and investments in technology are growing. The global market for thermoelectric generators was estimated at $ 2015 million in 320. This figure is expected to reach $ 2021 million in 720. Today, North America has 66% of the TEG market and produces approximately 9 million units of such generators.
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 17 February 2021 15: 23
      +3
      For some reason, one more device was not mentioned.
      I personally found it at one rural bus station.
      "Miniradiola" in classic design - gilded
      lattice, scale DV, SV, KV - with inscriptions - Moscow,
      Kiev, etc. red arrow, and itself is just above the loaf
      bread - brick, collected on "acorn" radio tubes.
      And with it, a thermocouple converter is included -
      similar one to one on the radiator of the Zhiguli stove, Moskvich.
      Here it was put on a primus stove, on top of it a saucepan of soup
      and Soviet geologists in Kazakhstan had two in one -
      the voice of Moscow and hot soup.
      A thermocouple - two plates of different metals - looks like
      as if a match is carefully dissolved in two to the head.
      The head is the place of welding, and the potential at the ends of the plates, and their
      several hundred are connected in series-parallel.
      Looks like a radiator, gives out 80 volts, for this type of lamp
      enough. When I found this kit in the 70s, it was
      about 25 years old, but everything worked fine. And no semiconductors.
      1. Avior
        Avior 17 February 2021 16: 40
        +1
        They were different
        Since 3, the TGK-1953 thermogenerator has been produced by several factories in the country. Not quite radio-related, but still. Thermogenerator "TGK-3" with a power of 3 W is designed to power rural battery radio receivers such as "Rodina-47", "Rodina-52", "Iskra", "Tallinn B-2", "Tula" and others. Simultaneously with the operation of the radio, the room was illuminated with a heating and at the same time a lighting lamp "Lightning", which was important in the evening when people came home from work and wanted to listen to the country's news.

        1. Kushka
          Kushka 17 February 2021 17: 15
          0
          In your photo, the receiver is quite large.
          The power of the thermogenerator is apparently adequate.
          And the one that I saw was three times smaller and hung on
          wall and most likely it was "Homeland 47".
          But the thermal converter was flat
          rectangular frame, tightly "braided" inside
          zigzag flat wire in several layers,
          that is, it was simply put on the burner of primus, kerosene gas,
          (like a plaster cutter), and from above it could
          put a saucepan, frying pan.
          1. Avior
            Avior 17 February 2021 20: 11
            +1
            Until 1960, they were produced in several models, both for use with a lamp, both in the photo, and for use with kerosene gas.
    2. Professor
      Professor 17 February 2021 15: 57
      0
      Quote: A. Privalov
      In fact, interest in TEG continues to grow, and investments in technology are growing. The global market for thermoelectric generators was estimated at $ 2015 million in 320. This figure is expected to reach $ 2021 million in 720. Today, North America has 66% of the TEG market and produces approximately 9 million units of such generators.

      Now you won't surprise anyone. Affordable and cheap.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 17 February 2021 17: 05
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Now you won't surprise anyone.

        Universal thermoelectric generator B25-12 (М)
    3. ccsr
      17 February 2021 20: 47
      +2
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Today North America has 66% of the TEG market and produces approximately 9 million units of these generators.

      I will not argue, but as far as I remember, already on the first Soviet gas pipelines thermogenerators were installed, with a height of about 1,5 - 1,8 meters, which were installed along the route at certain distances. They worked around the clock and provided power to telemetry equipment and transmitters to constantly monitor the operation of the gas pipeline. I saw them at that time, so we took care of this even before the Americans.
    4. ccsr
      22 February 2021 12: 24
      -1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      Today North America has 66% of the TEG market and produces approximately 9 million units of these generators.

      Without questioning your information, I would still like to know why in Texas in the current cold weather people did not use such thermogenerators, if one 20 liter canister was enough for 100 hours of operation of the Souvenir product. This would give them the opportunity to receive at least warmth during this time, and the output power of 25 watts provided not only recharging of gadgets, but also lighting in houses from Chinese lamps. It seems that not everything is so blissful there with them, as you describe. I hope the citizens of Israel will take into account the work of Soviet scientists and create or purchase something similar for internal needs - critical cold and you can befall.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 17 February 2021 14: 43
    +1
    I didn't know thanks! To be honest for me this discovery is at the level of fantasy !!!
  • datura23
    datura23 17 February 2021 15: 05
    0
    what's wrong with editing? Blood from the eyes.
    1. ccsr
      18 February 2021 10: 29
      +2
      Quote: datura23
      what's wrong with editing? Blood from the eyes.

      I also noticed that the editing was apparently carried out in order to make it easier to translate the article into English. The author's text of the article without edits can be read here on this site:
      https://zapravdu.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4041&sid=19b84f79c06f10885cbde2e3a69c30ab&p=156458#p156458
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 17 February 2021 15: 06
    0
    That is what it would be worthwhile to give the state-owned company technology and cheap credit for production. There is already a ready export product. The Chinese published their military developments, take them, create them, sell them. Ours will keep secreting until it gets out of date.
  • tasha
    tasha 17 February 2021 15: 37
    +3
    Interesting stuff. Thermogenerators for various purposes are manufactured by Kriotherm LLC.
    For example, the universal TEG B4M.


    The universal generator B4M allows you to obtain a 12 V supply voltage when installed on vertical hot surfaces with a temperature of 250 ° C.
    Has a built-in thermal protection that prevents the generator from breaking down when the mounting surface is heated to 300 ° C.
    Weight 2kg, dimensions approximately 16x10x10cm.

    For the needs of the SPN, the ROM-5M turned out to be preferable, I think ..
    1. ccsr
      20 February 2021 18: 43
      0
      Quote: tasha
      The universal generator B4M allows you to obtain a 12 V supply voltage when installed on vertical hot surfaces with a temperature of 250 ° C.

      The question is how to get such a surface in the field. That is why such a scheme was chosen in order to obtain a similar temperature difference from an autonomous source with the highest energy consumption of fuel.
      Quote: tasha
      For the needs of the SPN, the ROM-5M turned out to be preferable, I think ..

      The naval special forces may find themselves in such conditions in the North, where they need warmth, and there is no firewood to be found on the rocky island. By the way, they use army special radio communications, including the PZU-5m, but depending on the tasks, such equipment could be useful to them. Well, don't forget about the maneuverable osnaz groups - they can generally stay in one place for a long time, and work around the clock, and not in sessions.
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 17 February 2021 16: 30
    +2
    Thermogenerator "TGK-3" has been produced by several factories since 1953.

    Thermogenerator "TGK-3" with a power of 3 W is designed to power rural battery-operated radio receivers such as "Rodina-47", "Rodina-52", "Iskra", "Tallinn B-2", "Tula" and others. Simultaneously with the operation of the radio, the room was illuminated with a heating and at the same time a lighting lamp "Lightning", which was important in the evening when people came home from work and wanted to listen to the country's news. The principle of operation of a thermogenerator is based on the effect of heating an alloy of two different metals (thermocouples) where voltage occurs. The thermogenerator consists of two thermopiles, one of which gives a voltage of 2 V at a current of 0,5 A and supplies the glow of the receiver lamps, the second gives a voltage of 2 V at a current of 2 A and feeds the anodes of the lamps through a vibration transducer. There is also a tap to power the incandescent lamps of some receivers with a voltage of 1,2 V and a current of 0,36 A.

    Details: magazine "Radio", No. 2, 1954, p. 24
    http://oldradio.onego.ru/ARTICLES/RADIO/tgk.htm
  • Intruder
    Intruder 17 February 2021 16: 42
    0
    As a result, the guerrillas charged the batteries of their radio station. The power of TG-1 reached 10 watts.
    even in our time, it is quite normal power for charging various digital devices in difficult natural conditions, instead of dragging battery panels, especially in hiking (mountain) tourism and searching for the optimal angle of elevation and illumination level, with many hours of charging!
    The maximum charging current of the developed thermoelectric generator, as well as the current for powering the electronic equipment, was 2 A at a voltage from 12,6 to 13,8 V
    although these parameters are already more interesting ...
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 17 February 2021 16: 43
    0
    The capacity of the gasoline "Bumblebee" was enough for 5-6 hours of continuous operation, which was quite enough to fully charge the 10NKP-6c "Belt" battery in the field
    But it is not at all clear whether a primus was supposed at all in the equipment of the special forces "at the exit" and how to pile up the device depicted by the author on this same primus.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 17 February 2021 17: 36
      0
      There, a soldier-motor was also used, he did not need fuel and sunlight at all. Probably they considered it a more promising option.
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 17 February 2021 18: 51
    +5
    Gridasov is awake! Now it will be much more fun on VO.
  • dgonni
    dgonni 17 February 2021 23: 03
    0
    The author did not mention only one! All these priboludy were necessary for our valiant scouts for one reason! Namely, because of the heavy and not capacious batteries! Who had wild self-discharge currents and heard themselves in a week. Regardless of use!
    ALL! Who faced Soviet Akum at radio stations knew and experienced it
    Unfortunately, that was ce la vie.
    Well, the elemental base of the stations ate food like a hippopotamus cabbage.
    Where amers or Germans already had harnesses on low-consumption transit vehicles. We had lamps. Albeit high-frequency and reliable, but gnawing non-acidic currents.
    1. ccsr
      18 February 2021 10: 34
      0
      Quote: dgonni
      The author did not mention only one! All these priboludy were necessary for our valiant scouts for one reason!

      If you carefully read both articles, then you would understand that these products were developed primarily for radio operators of the embassies, and not for special forces units.
      Quote: dgonni
      Which had wild self-discharge currents and heard themselves in a week.

      This is nonsense - self-discharge at the level of 2-4% per month, and it depended on the storage temperature.

      Quote: dgonni
      Who encountered Soviet Akum at radio stations knew and experienced it
      Unfortunately, that was ce la vie.

      What particular radio station did you personally work for to announce this?
      Quote: dgonni
      Where the amers or the Germans already had connections for low-consumption transit cars. We had lamps.

      This is generally nonsense - at that time there were no longer correspondent stations on lamps, even in operational intelligence.
      1. dgonni
        dgonni 18 February 2021 19: 45
        -3
        No comments! You are too far from the reality of the Soviet Armed Forces, and even more so the development of units!
        Well, it happens!
        Name me at least one station with instant data transmission without lamps!
        Clean up and shut up!
        Do not write for what you do not understand!
        1. ccsr
          19 February 2021 10: 01
          +1
          Quote: dgonni
          No comments! You are too far from the reality of the Soviet Armed Forces, and even more so the development of units!
          Well, it happens!

          Do not wag, and tell us what you yourself worked on, otherwise your stream of consciousness is already tired.
          Quote: dgonni
          Name me at least one station with instant data transmission without lamps!

          R-397OK-2
  • Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 18 February 2021 13: 46
    +1
    Thank you for the article. It was interesting! winked hi
    1. agond
      agond 19 February 2021 18: 52
      0
      Quote: gridasov
      And we need energy concentrators. Any tree, potato, lemon, and in general practically everything is extracted 1,5 volts of voltage. Then you just need to create a current and increase the energy density.

      Probably you know the subject, then in more detail or give a link and explain about the "break-in forces"
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 19 February 2021 20: 17
        0
        Quote: agond
        Quote: gridasov
        And we need energy concentrators. Any tree, potato, lemon, and in general practically everything is extracted 1,5 volts of voltage. Then you just need to create a current and increase the energy density.

        Probably you know the subject, then in more detail or give a link and explain about the "break-in forces"

        I can hardly be of any help to you in this topic. hi I don't know why, but your question, addressed to a colleague "gridasov", ended up in my sector request
    2. ccsr
      21 February 2021 13: 38
      +3
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      Thank you for the article. It was interesting!

      I am glad that the article interested me, although, to be honest, it was the simplest thing I had to deal with, and I remembered this only because I understand that even now such a technique is in demand. Perhaps over time I will write about some of the systems for which these generators were developed, but this takes time and a more serious approach, so I can not guarantee anything. It's just that many modern people do not understand what a unique country the Soviet Union was from the point of view of scientific and technical thought, when we tried to be the first in everything, and this is sad. Perhaps such articles will help to understand that era, and at least people will be proud of those who are already dead and who moved progress in our country.
      1. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 21 February 2021 15: 13
        +4
        I agree with you. Much of what has been done in modern Russia is based on those developments and designs originally from the USSR. I also liked this topic because I have been hunting for 30 years and in the taiga I have three huts, the presence of such thermogenerators on which would allow me to solve problems with light and power for a radio station or a transistor. TGK-3 and TEGK-2-2 were especially impressed. Candles, batteries and accumulators help out, but there is an opportunity to provide autonomy at the expense of any combustible material, the lack of which in the forest. respectfully hi
        1. KVIRTU
          KVIRTU 25 February 2021 13: 05
          +1
          Koroterm, Peter, also produces ready-made generators, or you can buy their Peltier elements in any store, rubles for 250, give out 5A at 12V, clamp it through the paste between 2 old radiators from the processors, one side to the open door of the stove, and that's it.
          1. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky 25 February 2021 13: 37
            +1
            Quote: KVIRTU
            Koroterm, Peter, also produces ready-made generators, or you can buy their Peltier elements in any store, rubles for 250, give out 5A at 12V, clamp it through the paste between 2 old radiators from the processors, one side to the open door of the stove, and that's it.

            Need to try! Thanks for the advice hi drinks
            1. KVIRTU
              KVIRTU 25 February 2021 16: 57
              +1
              Try it, of course. You will not regret. And no special costs are required. And there are enough descriptions on the Internet, take a look.
              1. KVIRTU
                KVIRTU 25 February 2021 16: 59
                +1
                Cryotherm, I'm sorry. World leader in this field.