Military Review

And a black knife stabbed the fascist

118

I hold a knife in my hands



He is in a black wooden sheath. This is HP-40. A scout knife, model 1940, made at the Zlatoust tool plant - combine named after V.I. Lenin.

The handle of the blade is painted black. These knives were handed over to the border guards before being sent to the front.

Combat blades for NKVD officers and border soldiers appeared as early as 1935. And at first they resembled the Finnish cold weapon.

But after the Soviet-Finnish war of 1939-1940, a new knife was adopted, called the HP-40. Its handle was made of wood, carbolite or ebonite and, as a rule, was painted black.


The blade was well placed in the hand with any grip, had a handle that was comfortable with the length and thickness, and was well balanced. Pleasant to the eye and to the touch.

Border veteran Vladimir Korolev, in his book "Border Guards at the Kursk Bulge", published in 2006, tells about these black knives. For the first time in 1996, veterans of the 162nd Central Asian Division told him about the blades.

After Tashkent in 1942, this military formation was sent to the Ural city of Zlatoust to receive equipment and equipment. All fighters received (including without fail) and black knives.


It was on the Kursk Bulge


Veteran Aleksey Komarov also collected a lot of interesting information about the 162nd Central Asian Rifle Division.

He recalls that in the battles on the Kursk land in July 1943, the division became part of the 19th Rifle Corps and concentrated in the area of ​​the village of Mikhailovka.
From there, they had to attack the village of Chern, about 50-60 kilometers from Teply and Molotychey. The division quickly broke through the defenses and began to push the Fritzes to the north.

And during the battles, it was noticed that in this sector the enemy was retreating faster than in front of other formations. The thought crept in that the Nazis were luring the fighters of the division into a "bag".

It was not immediately possible to find out the reasons for the panic retreat of enemy units. But soon the captured fascist testified that during the battles for Samodurovka, their commander told the higher authorities:

- The Central Asian Senchillo gang is operating in my direction.

(The division commander is Colonel Sergei Yakovlevich Senchillo, later Major General, Hero of the Soviet Union - author)

- They don't take prisoner! Cut with knives!

The soldiers are in a panic, demoralized and retreat.

I ask to transfer my division to any other sector.

Hitler's 31st Infantry Division was transferred. But - the irony of fate, and by order of the commander of the 70th Army of the NKVD troops, units of the 162nd division are being transferred to the same area.

Schwarzmesser Panzer – Division


Translated from German, it is "Black Knife Division". Moreover tank... This name appeared when the Soviet border guards again met in battle with the Nazis, who had previously fled from them in panic.

The Red Army men fought valiantly against the enemy, and when they met hand-to-hand, they snatched their black knives from their scabbards.

And they cut, cut mercilessly all who dared to invade the Kursk land.

And a black knife stabbed the fascist

So the border guards came in handy with the blades from the workers of Zlatoust. It was they who forged the knives and presented them to each soldier of the 162nd Division.


"A knife will come in handy at the front,"

- they said to the border guards.

Indeed, the daggers from Zlatoust were seriously needed by the Soviet fighters in hand-to-hand combat on the Kursk Bulge.

There were such black knives and the Kursk Panfilov platoon of Lieutenant Alexander Romanovsky. On the Kursk Bulge near Samodurovka in July 1943, 18 border guards met hand-to-hand with the Nazis.

The fight was merciless. All the fighters were killed, but about a hundred enemy corpses were left lying in the dust. And most of them - with stab and cut lacerations, mortal wounds.

They are from Zlatoust


In total, more than 900 thousand black knives were made in Zlatoust, which were handed over to the military units that were formed in this city. Yegor Shchekotikhin also writes about black knives from the Urals in his book “The largest tank battle of the Great Patriotic War. Battle for the Eagle ".

“Our tanks have passed the defensive line.

The submachine gunners jumped off the armor, began hand-to-hand combat with the Nazis.

Here knives specially made by the workers of the city of Zlatoust from special Zlatoust steel came in handy ...

The Germans recognized the "invulnerable" Urals by these black knives.

Seeing the attacking warriors with such knives on their belts, the Nazis in panic began to shout: "Schwarzen Messer!"

As soon as the Ural volunteers arrived at a new sector of the front, the Germans informed their command and neighbors:

"A body of black knives has appeared before us!"

So Yegor Schekotikhin writes about the Volunteer Tank Corps, which was formed in Zlatoust in March 1943. And he received his first baptism of fire on July 27, 1943 during the liberation of the Oryol and Bryansk regions.

And the song is about black knives


And also about the black Zlatoust knives, the soldiers of the tank corps in 1943 composed a song.


The author of her words is Rosa Notik, who went through the entire combat path with the tankers, marked with military awards: the Order of the Red Star, the Medal for Military Merit, the Order of the Patriotic War, II degree.

Composers - Ivan Ovchinin and Naum Komm. Unfortunately, they have not been with us for a long time. And the song is alive. And here are her words.

Fascists whisper in fear to each other,
Huddling in the dark dugouts:
Tankers appeared from the Urals -
Division of black knives.

Selfless fighters squads,
Nothing can kill their courage.
Oh, do not like fascist bastards
Our Ural steel black knife!

As with armor, machine gunners jump off,
You won’t take them with any fire.
Volunteers don't crush the avalanche,
After all, everyone has a black knife.

Rush tanks of the Ural communities,
Enemy force throwing a shiver
Oh, do not like fascist bastards
Our Ural steel black knife!

We will write to the gray Urals:
"Be assured of your sons,
We are not in vain gave daggers,
That the Nazis were afraid of them. "

We will write: “We fight as it should,
And the Ural gift is good! ”
Oh, do not like fascist bastards
Our Ural steel black knife!

Author:
Photos used:
from the author's archive, wepobedili.rf, 117orb.at.ua
118 comments
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  1. Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 13 February 2021 05: 26
    +16
    Translated from German, it is "Black Knife Division". Moreover, the tank.

    My grandfather was a tanker.
    On the Kursk Bulge, they rammed and overturned a German tank in their T-34. The Germans jumped out and, as my grandfather said, they made a mistake.
    They had to turn back and shoot the Germans with a machine gun, but in the heat of battle they jumped out of the tank and went hand-to-hand at the Germans.
    The Germans killed the tank commander, but all of them were killed by our tankers.
    I read about "black knives and remembered. But they most likely did not have them, our tankers did not, since 1 tank corps was formed in Lipetsk in front of the Kursk Bulge.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 13 February 2021 06: 16
      +22
      Quote: Lipchanin
      But they most likely did not have them among our tankers, since 1 tank corps in front of the Kursk Bulge was formed in Lipetsk

      Most likely, your grandfather had a knife made in the artels of the Pavlovsky and Vachinsky regions (Trud Vacha plant).
      With the outbreak of the War, when it was urgently required to set up the production of knives, it was decided to use the experience and production base of small enterprises that were already engaged in knife products - the artels of Pavlovsky and Vachsky regions. The "Finnish" knives common at that time were taken as a basis and, taking into account the requirements formulated in 1940, the production of knives for the army began.
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 13 February 2021 06: 23
        +7
        Quote: Hunter 2
        Most likely your grandfather had a knife made in the artels of Pavlovsky and Vachinsky districts (Trud Vacha plant)

        Thank you hi
        But I don't know for sure. Was still small and such details did not interest me request
      2. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 13 February 2021 06: 37
        +5
        Quote: Hunter 2
        Most likely, your grandfather had a knife made in the artels of the Pavlovsky and Vachinsky regions (Trud Vacha plant).

        And you know, they could have made knives in Lipetsk. After all, we already had a tractor plant then.
        I know that in my time the guys themselves made and sold hunting knives. Fortunately, steel for a knife was not difficult to find
      3. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 10: 44
        -7
        Quote: Hunter 2
        Most likely, your grandfather had a knife made in the artels of the Pavlovsky and Vachinsky regions (Trud Vacha plant).

        Most likely there were none at all.
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 13 February 2021 12: 59
          +3
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Most likely there were none at all.

          And with what they then cut the Germans?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 13: 11
            -1
            Quote: Lipchanin
            And with what they then cut the Germans?

            Trophy, perhaps. Or homemade. According to the state, tankers are not allowed to knives.
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 13 February 2021 13: 27
              +4
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Trophy, perhaps.

              What trophy? They only arrived at the front
              Or homemade.

              From what and where?
              According to the state, tankers are not allowed to knives.

              I did not talk about the staff, it was in the article about homemade

              In total, more than 900 thousand black knives were made in Zlatoust, which were presented to the military units that were formed in this city.

              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 13: 30
                -1
                Quote: Lipchanin
                I did not talk about the staff, it was in the article about homemade

                In total, more than 900 thousand black knives were made in Zlatoust, which were presented to the military units that were formed in this city.

                These are not self-made, I posted screenshots of documents below.
                1. Lipchanin
                  Lipchanin 13 February 2021 13: 36
                  +14
                  Listen, why did you go to the knives?
                  What difference does it make to the fascists?
                  The main thing is not to be afraid, I fought, I burned in three tanks and I reached Warsaw !!!
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 13: 39
                    -1
                    Quote: Lipchanin
                    Listen, why did you go to the knives?

                    Here is an article about knives.
                    1. Lipchanin
                      Lipchanin 13 February 2021 13: 55
                      +4
                      I wrote that my grandfather cut the fascists and you started about knives
                      Most likely there were none at all.

                      I repeat
                      What does it matter to you what he cut the fascists
                      I will never communicate with you again.
                      You can join the party of mosquitoes who are trying to sting with their minuses for every post
                      Have sunk to the point that the veteran's story is minus
              2. Proxima
                Proxima 13 February 2021 21: 51
                +1

                Please enlighten. In the photo there are five crew members, but the tank is T-34-76.
                1. thinker
                  thinker 13 February 2021 23: 14
                  +5
                  The crew of the T-34-76 63 Guards. tbr "Gvardiya" (left to right): tank commander A.V. Dodonov, radio operator A.P. Marchenko, loading N.I. Melnichenko, battalion commander P.V. Chirkov, driver-mechanic F. P. Surkov. 1943 Photo: Mikhail Insarov
                2. The comment was deleted.
      4. BAI
        BAI 13 February 2021 11: 11
        +8
        2 types of knives were made on Vache: a saboteur's knife for the NKVD, SMERSH, sappers, saboteurs, paratroopers in 1937-1945 (top photo) and a Minesweeper knife (bottom photo).


        In principle, the products are of the same type, practically the same.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 12: 15
          +5
          Quote: BAI
          In principle, the products are of the same type, practically the same.

          Only the sapper's knife of the same type was produced in three standard sizes, the Finnish NKVD was completely different, and they also forgot the Canadian-type knife.
    2. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 13 February 2021 12: 56
      +21
      And my grandfather is a Siberian. With Siberian divisions, he reached Austria. I went to reconnaissance, behind the front line. But he did not like to talk about the war. Once only (having drunk well) he said, “I crawl from behind, jump on the hamtsa, I closed his mouth with my palm and a knife to his neck! He fell like a knocked-down” .. (my grandfather was 21 years old)
      And I, at the age of 21, ran around the student hostel and the girls on the ass, clapping ...
      Yes ... there were people in our time ...
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 13 February 2021 13: 01
        +8
        Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
        But he did not like to talk about the war.

        Mine didn't like it either. With difficulty he could beg him to tell something
        Most often he said: "Granddaughter, war is scary"
      2. cat Rusich
        cat Rusich 13 February 2021 15: 42
        +9
        Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
        And my grandfather is a Siberian. With Siberian divisions, he reached Austria. I went to reconnaissance, behind the front line. But he did not like to talk about the war. Once only (having drunk well) he said, “I crawl from behind, jump on the hamtsa, I closed his mouth with my palm and a knife to his neck! He fell like a knocked-down” .. (my grandfather was 21 years old)
        And I, at the age of 21, ran around the student hostel and the girls on the ass, clapping ...
        Yes ... there were people in our time ...
        No offense for WWII veterans ...
        "For the river" from December 1979 to 1988 (in 1989 they only went out) could get in at the age of 19 (conscription at the age of 18, a year in the unit). In Chechnya in the First and Second Companies at the age of 18 they got (half a year in units). The more veterans are silent about the war, the more young people want to go to a new war.
      3. lwxx
        lwxx 13 February 2021 17: 36
        +1
        Excuse me, I do not at all beg for the merits of your grandfather, but either you listened inattentively, or the grandfather never went to the sentry. Since the first blow is not delivered to the neck.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 14 February 2021 13: 05
          0
          Excuse me, I do not at all beg for the merits of your grandfather, but either you listened inattentively, or the grandfather never went to the sentry.
          here really - what's the difference, what and who ... how, most importantly, they ensured that victory, and in what and in what sequence - these are nuances that few people need ... in our already peaceful (without world wars, 76-year already we live ... everything!) time and under a peaceful sky ...
        2. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 14 February 2021 13: 16
          +2
          Maybe I got it wrong with chronology. I will not argue. But I believe my grandfather.
        3. Glory1974
          Glory1974 15 February 2021 09: 28
          0
          Since the first blow is not delivered to the neck.

          there are several options. And there is an option with the first blow to the neck
          1. lwxx
            lwxx 15 February 2021 18: 58
            0
            Yes, if the sentry's hands are not on the weapon, which is unlikely in a combat state.
      4. Intruder
        Intruder 14 February 2021 13: 02
        +3
        And I, at the age of 21, ran around the student hostel and the girls on the ass, clapping ...
        maybe for this your ancestor did just that:
        "I crawl from behind, jump on the gamts, I closed his mouth with my palm and stabbed him in the neck!
        like many others for the sake of the future of their descendants (mine served in the platoons of the PTR-s ... and also, they did not like very much to tell the curious grandson: "about the tank attacks of the Wehrmacht," although the family kept the lighter of my grandfather, from the cartridge case of 14,5 mm. and "table" lamp - from 45 mm)!
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 14 February 2021 13: 18
          +2
          maybe for this your ancestor did just that:
          You're right. Gold words. It couldn't be better.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 14 February 2021 13: 59
            +3
            maybe for this your ancestor did just that:
            You're right. Gold words. It couldn't be better.
            Simply, the truth of life ... just like: "there are no atheists - under mortar fire ...!" For the ancestors and their feat !!! hi drinks
    3. venik
      venik 13 February 2021 23: 59
      +8
      Quote: Lipchanin
      The Germans killed the tank commander, but all of them were killed by our tankers.
      I read about "black knives and remembered.

      ========
      My uncle (or rather, not quite an uncle, but my mother's sister's husband), told a similar story:
      It was on the Kalinin front, at the end of 42, somewhere in late autumn .... He was sent to adjust the artillery fire (he was a regular artilleryman) before the offensive. I went on a 34-ke. I had to go as far as neutral, since the Germans did not observe anti-tank art in this place .... At first everything went well, but suddenly a not very strong explosion was heard nearby (it turned out - an anti-tank grenade). The commander gave the command "back!", And the tank spun on the spot - the caterpillar was ripped off! Well, they "foolishly" (as the uncle said) and rushed out of the tank ..... And then a group of Germans, about 7 people! And how did they only get to the tank unnoticed? Further - as to me (then the boy remembered: "I didn't have time to jump out, but some guy in a German uniform attacked me .. He has a carbine with a bayonet in his hands and is aiming at my stomach .... how, but somehow he managed to repulse the bayonet with his hand and we collided. I don’t know HOW the knife ended up in my hand, but I stuck it right in this guy’s stomach, right up to the handle ... ... With these words, Uncle Yura shuddered, and he was not a timid man! And he continued: "How many years have passed, and the eyes of that young German, when he began to fall on me, I cannot forget! It's hard: like this -" eye to eye ".... But I never pulled the knife out of him - it was not up to that ..... And I didn't want to ... "
      And when asked how it ended, he answered briefly: "Yes, all the Fritzes were overwhelmed, but one tanker was killed and two were seriously wounded ... And there the infantrymen arrived in time ..."
      I remember this story for the rest of my life, because to some extent it broke the stereotypes of "a beautiful war", and made me think about what POWER of SPIRIT it was necessary to possess those who won that war and did not break, remaining a MAN!
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 14 February 2021 15: 51
        +5
        In war, in general, there is practically no beauty. This is in modern film fakes beauty and so on.
      2. haron
        haron 24 February 2021 19: 09
        +1
        Quote: venik
        At these words, Uncle Yura shuddered, and he was not a timid man! And he continued: "How many years have passed, and the eyes of that young German, when he began to fall on me, I cannot forget! It's hard: like this -" eye to eye ".... But I never pulled the knife out of him - it was not up to that ..... And I didn't want to ... "

        My grandfather is also Yura .. was. He left in 2015, at 90.
        He started in 44th. 3rd Ukrainian (and he is Vladimirsky))). He knew how to tell and he loved, but only to his own children and grandchildren. Three wounds, two of them from his art. Once they ran to the Hans faster than the gods of war managed to move the line of fire further. He says he sees how the ingot 76,2 flies up to him and time slows down, how it rotates, plops about two meters from him. Then he turned on and jumped head over heels, but his thigh was cut a little, exactly on the yellow one. The second yellow one also received from his art. But he made a red one for him with a butt on his head. He says he was already recorded as a ghoul, but rare bubbles from a broken head were saved.
        Then he ended up in a penal battalion in the Carpathians (he was an officer, a lieutenant). They climbed up the mountain to take. Fight, here and there.
        He was left alone in the German machine-gun nest. I spent the night there, I laid the perimeter with my own and the Germans dead, but what he says, my own will still serve, and even from the Hans. In the morning he sees the German unit marching down the road, relaxed, smoking. And he has MG 42 or 34 with a bunch of full tapes and a grant like shoe polish.
        Here. So, as he gave a turn from left to right in that part, so he mowed a third.
        Who remained began to climb on him. From those who climbed began to receive grenades from him. One Hans crawled up and jumped on his grandfather. He shot him on the fly from the pistole, but the already dead body fell on him. My then 170cm in boots, and the weight was 75. A hans sho boar
        He says he caught him with bent arms and threw him out of the trench. Then he himself wondered where the strength came from. And then they pulled themselves up. I got a red star for that business and returned to my unit. Then there was the south of Poland. Then the Czech Republic. He ended the war in Austrian Fristadt.
        He had a self-made knife, under HP, but he only chopped food with it. For a German I always had a firearm, says I am not passionate about playing these daisies of yours. Most of all he loved DShK, no, he says it is safer than a sledgehammer. On the edge I always had TT and P-38, well, intermediate options, all sorts of Sudaevs, mosia with optics, grenades, etc. He, like a company commander, had his own cart and horse, so he could afford a prank.
        I believe my grandfather. He told me about these cases many times and always word for word the same.
  2. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 13 February 2021 05: 28
    +9
    Very good article good The author plus ... I would like to continue the theme of Army knives, both historical and modern! Interestingly, even in modern wars, a good knife is a friend and helper that does not lose its relevance.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 13 February 2021 08: 05
      +6
      "Army Knives" I agree that the topic is good, but this requires another author. Here you need to do painstaking work: selection of materials, illustrations
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 14 February 2021 13: 21
      +2
      Interestingly, even in modern wars, a good knife is a friend and helper that does not lose its relevance.
      and not only in modern wars, I don't go to the forest or taiga without my friend from the word at all ... winked , hangs on the wall ... and not one, by the way, went with my wife on an extreme hike together with a "minimal wage" in backpacks and ran into a trail and droppings of a fresh bear, it was in the Eastern Sayan Mountains in 2018, so she still recalls , about how my hand darted to the handle on the belt ... wink, what is interesting about the other "product" on the shoulder, I completely forgot, but about the knife - no !!!
  3. Destiny
    Destiny 13 February 2021 05: 31
    +23
    Knife-legend of the Great Patriotic War - the famous "Schwarzmesser" - "black knife"!
    Most often it is associated with the Ural (Ural-Lvov) Volunteer (later Guards) Tank Corps, formed in 1943 and equipped with weapons and equipment made with contributions from the workers of the Sverdlovsk, Chelyabinsk and Molotov (Perm) regions. The corps took its first battle on July 27, 1943, in the second phase of the Battle of Kursk. And already three months after entering into hostilities, by order of the People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR No. 306 of October 26, 1943, the 30th Ural Volunteer Tank Corps was transformed into the 10th Guards Ural Volunteer Tank Corps for the bravery of the soldiers and tankers shown in battle. All parts of the corps were given the name of the Guards. In 1944, for participation in hostilities on the territory of Ukraine, in the operation to liberate the city of Lvov from the Nazi troops, the corps was awarded the honorary title "Lviv". He was awarded the Order of the Red Banner, the Order of Suvorov II degree, the Order of Kutuzov II degree.

    During the years of the Great War, the Ural Corps took part in the following military operations:
    July 27 - August 29 1943 of the year: Orel operation;
    March 4 - April 18 1944 of the year: Proskurov-Chernivtsi operation;
    July 14 - August 12 1944 of the year: Lviv-Sandomierz operation;
    12 - 31 January 1945 of the year: Vislo-Oder operation;
    8 - February 22 1945 of the Year: Lower Silesian Operation;
    8 - 31 March 1945 of the Year: Upper Silesian Operation;
    16 April - 2 May 1945: Berlin operation;
    6 - 9 May 1945: Prague operation
    And this knife was presented to Marshal of Victory Zhukov

    Characteristics of the "black knife":

    Weight without scabbard 150 g.
    The total length of the knife is 263 mm.
    Blade length 152 mm.
    The largest blade width is 22 mm.
    The greatest thickness of the butt is 2,6 mm.
    Blade steel grade - U7.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 February 2021 05: 56
      +9
      The same "black knives" immediately contact the 20th Ural Guards Corps. And they also had a paratrooper "patserniki".
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 13 February 2021 07: 19
      +4
      I read about it in the Red Star
    3. Mister X
      Mister X 13 February 2021 10: 41
      +11
      Quote: Destiny
      it is associated with the Ural (Ural-Lvov) Volunteer (later Guards) Tank Corps

      hi
      A full-length documentary about the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps
      The world's only tank unit entirely funded by residents
  4. user1212
    user1212 13 February 2021 05: 51
    +12
    People are inherently afraid in war, and the Germans, even in spite of their crimes, still remained human, at least biologically. And it doesn't matter in what way to justify this fear ... in the black knives of the enemy, fierce Soviet volunteers or something else.
    Knives were not strategic production. In the same Zlatoust, they were often made in "free" time, after the end of the shift, and so they were never small. Many knives of that time were made in small artels, in repair shops directly among the troops, by local residents, were sold and exchanged for tobacco, stew and much more. There was no question of any observance of the size and shape of the reference HP40 / HA40 at all, they did a lot of things and from what was at hand. It was still more likely not a weapon, but a necessary household tool, but this did not interfere with stabbing the enemy
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 13 February 2021 09: 59
      +3
      from the canvas of old springs they make .. spring steel and 62G ....................................... .....
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 11: 01
      +1
      Quote: user1212
      There was no question of any observance of the size and shape of the reference HP40 / HA40 at all, they did a lot of things and from what was at hand. It was still more likely not a weapon, but a necessary household tool, but this did not interfere with stabbing the enemy

      Yeah .... Well, you did it ...


      The plan for 1943 included 121 checkers, but the director of the plant was apparently given to understand that they would not be strictly asked for its implementation. Only 000 blades were made in a year. The task for army knives was extremely high - 32 pieces. But the factory shipped only 100 knives to the front. In a report for 1, the director of the plant, N.N.Shilin, explained the failure to fulfill the plan by poor supply of labor. The workshop was staffed by half workers. However, they were often transferred to shell production. Demand for deliveries of 310-mm high-explosive fragmentation shells was incomparably stricter than for edged weapons.
      1. user1212
        user1212 13 February 2021 16: 57
        0
        Are you not a reader but a writer? wink
        Quote: user1212
        Knives were not strategic production... In the same Chrysostom their often done in "free" time, after the end of the shift, and so never small. Many knives of that time were made in small artels, in repair shops directly in the troops, by local residents, they were sold and exchanged ...

        I did not write that knives were not issued centrally by order of the NKO of the USSR. I wrote that MANY knives were released on an initiative basis at the same factories, workshops in the troops or artels (IP and LLC for the present), from the available materials and did not meet the characteristics of HP40 and HA40.
        Thus, knives with black painted sheaths are not exclusively Zlatoust or necessarily related to the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps.hi
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 17: 49
          +1
          If there is an order from an NGO, then this is a strategic production.
          Quote: user1212
          Knives were not strategic production.

          Quote: user1212
          I wrote that MANY knives were released on an initiative basis at the same factories, workshops in the troops or artels (IP and LLC as of today),

          As for the artels, they were given orders through the management of industrial cooperation.

          And what was released and apart from the ordered non-profit organizations, so it is clear to the hedgehog. At least in factories, at least in vocational schools.
    3. Mister X
      Mister X 13 February 2021 19: 23
      +1
      Quote: user1212
      And in what way to find an excuse for this fear of yours ... in the black knives of the enemy, fierce Soviet volunteers or something else

      Letter from the front (detail) Lev Shatrov
      ... all prisoners show that German soldiers no longer want to fight,
      behave very scared, the cowards are incredible ...
      True, our soldiers with black knives operated with them like butchers
      You will involuntarily be afraid
      They even gave pepper to the best divisions
      This is far from 41 years old ...


    4. certero
      certero 15 February 2021 02: 21
      +1
      Unfortunately, the Germans were not shy and were not afraid of any "black knives". They were a skillful, well-armed and experienced enemy, whom ours were able to defeat by becoming even more skillful, experienced and armed. And the legend about the knives that someone was afraid there is just a legend.
      There is no need to pass propaganda, which is appropriate during the war, as the truth now. It did a disservice in the Union when the "revelations of the 80s" began, and even more so, it is very dangerous now.
  5. Walking
    Walking 13 February 2021 06: 48
    +18
    The black knife has nothing to do with the border guards, they were made for the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps. I collect knives myself, so I know. The author is a minus.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 13 February 2021 07: 08
      +9
      Quote: Hiking
      The black knife has nothing to do with the border guards, they were made for the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps. I collect knives myself, so I know. The author is a minus.

      outstripped ... agree with you.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 13 February 2021 07: 34
      +10
      It's just that the author needed something of that kind and dragged the "Schwarz Messer" here. I once read about this tank corps in Krasnaya Zvezda. It said that the workers of Zlatoust, on their own initiative and in their free time, made these knives as a gift to tankmen. Then, in imitation of the tankers, they began to officially order.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 13 February 2021 11: 05
        +3
        Another thing is curious - in fact, in the Red Army during the Second World War there were no "regular" knives. There were constant complaints from military units that it was necessary to replace the needle bayonet for the Mosin rifle with a knife one, similar to the German one, since the soldiers do not have a "regular" knife, which is needed not only in battle, but also in everyday life - to open canned food , cut-cut something, etc. The Red Army men nevertheless had knives, but these were knives either from SVT-ABC or, for the most part, "homemade" ones. There were few captured Germans, they were forced to surrender.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 13 February 2021 15: 08
          +2
          Quote: Snail N9
          Another thing is curious - in fact, in the Red Army during the Second World War there were no "regular" knives.

          I mean, except for those that were set (bayonet-knives) to the personal rifleman?
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 14 February 2021 15: 14
          0
          Concerning the "homemade products" I agree. Often in my childhood I saw "homemade" knives that the front-line soldiers brought. My Classmate still has a "live" bayonet-knife. In his family there was a household knife
  6. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 08: 55
    +16
    The cat by the ears, pulled, pulled, but the rabbit learned a lesson from him!
    Question to the Author: Did you hold the "black knife" in your hands? I'm afraid not. The black knife created at an inopportune time by the workers of Zlatoust for the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps and the knives of border guards and scouts NR-40 and NA-40 are two big differences.
    By the way, about five years ago, ZIK tried to organize an anniversary issue of "black knives", but the veterans rejected it.
    All the good days!
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 09: 00
      +11
      Dogs, dogs - of the four photographs given by the author - a black knife, only on the third and fourth. On the second remake, which conditionally resembles it. The first one is definitely not a Zlatoust black knife.
      I have the honor!
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 09: 04
        +8
        To clarify on the last photo, the late replica of the "black knife", which was made in 1944 and not for the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps, is already in the field. Although in most cases the Ural conscripts fought with them - the Sverdlovsk, Chelyabinsk, Molotovsk and Chkalovsk regions.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 11: 29
        0
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The first one is definitely not a Zlatoust black knife.

        There is a photo from the film.
  7. beeper
    beeper 13 February 2021 10: 08
    +7
    Once, in a St. Petersburg train of the late 90s, I saw a fellow traveler and held in his hands such a knife with a half-erased "Chrysostom 1942" on the blade and, in general, well preserved. yes
    The "native" scabbard was wooden, covered with black leather on top (or smooth kozhimite?), And the handle of the knife was also authentic (the original, still wartime, the same shape as in the photo) fit comfortably in the hand (both forward and backward grip) and was dark, "frozen" over the years of operation, natural wood color, not black at all!
    The boy, the owner of the knife (habitually cutting bread, cucumbers and sausage on the table "reserved seat"), said that he got this knife from his own grandfather, an infantryman, who used it at the front, and after demobilization brought it home ...
    In HP40, I was always surprised by the "wrong" (comparing with the well-known museum sabers, hunting knives and bandit "Finns") curved "guard, but then from experienced veterans-front-line soldiers I heard that this was done to smoothly cut the throat of the enemy sentry (when attacking him from behind) so that the guard does not cling to the collar ... winked
    Looking back at the times of my rural childhood, I understand that at the time of my fellow villagers' farms there came across a lot of these strong and convenient "scout knives" (after the war they were used in the countryside as ordinary kitchen knives, because we usually used more massive and long, German or Soviet , bayonets), already worn down on the touchstone and, in one way or another, "decriminalized" -deprived protruding "protective squiggles" that prevented the use of a knife in the kitchen and in everyday life ...
    1. ANB
      ANB 13 February 2021 20: 31
      +1
      ... "incorrectly (comparing with the well-known museum sabers, hunting knives and bandit" Finns ") curved" guard, but then from experienced front-line veterans I heard that this was done for unhindered cutting the throat of an enemy sentry (when attacking him from behind ) to prevent the guard from clinging to the collar .... winked

      Thanks for the explanation. It confused me too.
      1. Overheating
        Overheating 14 February 2021 11: 56
        +1
        He was familiar with the scout, full holder of the Order of Glory. When he asked about cutting his throat, he laughed, once he had to cut, almost failed the whole operation. The knife must kill right away, therefore, they did not pass cutting blows - only piercing ones, there are only seven of them. The soldier was trained in four, enough moles. The throat is a finishing move. He owned such a knife, did not really like it, the Finnish NKVD was better (maybe because of the still small hand of a teenager).
        1. Glory1974
          Glory1974 15 February 2021 09: 35
          0
          When he asked about cutting his throat, he laughed, once he had to cut, almost failed the whole operation.

          The sentinel's throat is not really cut. A stabbing blow is applied to the throat with a cutting motion "from oneself" when removing the knife.
  8. mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 13 February 2021 11: 07
    +1
    The Schwarzmesser Panzer-Division is the 30th Ural Volunteer Tank Corps, which included the 10th Guards Tank Division. A distinctive feature of the corps personnel were army knives of the 1940 model, made for every soldier from private to general by the workers of the Zlatoust tool plant and complete with black sheath.
    In addition, the corps infantry was equipped with CH-42 steel armor-bibs.
    I did not understand why the author linked the name Schwarzmesser Panzer – Division (tank division of black knives) with the 146th division of the NKVD.
    1. Hagen
      Hagen 13 February 2021 15: 02
      +3
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      The Schwarzmesser Panzer – Division is the 30th Ural Volunteer Tank Corps, which included the 10th Guards Tank Division.

      You are a little beguiled. The basis of 30 UDTKs were 197,243, 244 tank brigades, formed respectively in the Sverdlovsk, Molotovsk (Perm) and Chelyabinsk regions. There were no divisions in the corps. Because a "division" is a slightly different type of formation. In WWII, as a rule, in tank and rifle troops, corps consisted of brigades, divisions of regiments.
  9. Pavel57
    Pavel57 13 February 2021 12: 42
    0
    Real black death.
  10. The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 13 February 2021 13: 33
    0
    18 border guards met hand-to-hand with the Nazis.

    The fight was merciless. All the fighters were killed, but about a hundred enemy corpses were left to lie in the dust.


    The source is probably the newspaper of that time.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 14: 32
      -2
      Quote: Eye of the Crying
      The source is probably the newspaper of that time.

      Source - award list, only the author "lost" the fire fight.
  11. Undecim
    Undecim 13 February 2021 13: 49
    +11
    Combat blades for NKVD officers and border soldiers appeared in 1935. And at first they resembled the Finnish edged weapons.
    The author pompously writes about the Great Patriotic War, but does not at all know the issue of combat knives.
    The "NKVD knife" of the 1935 model or "Vachin finca" has nothing to do with Finnish melee weapons. This is practically a copy of the hunting knife of the famous Swedish knifemaker Pontus Holmberg from Eskilstuna.

    The 162nd Infantry Division was never called Schwarzmesser Panzer – Division. This was the name of the 30th Ural Volunteer Tank Corps.
    For some reason, the authors lately in materials about the Great Patriotic War have been increasingly hitting pathos and pathos and are paying less and less attention to working with historical documents.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 February 2021 14: 11
      +2
      Quote: Undecim
      For some reason, the authors lately in materials about the Great Patriotic War have been increasingly hitting pathos and pathos and are paying less and less attention to working with historical documents.

      Krivitsky's grandchildren have grown up?
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 13 February 2021 14: 52
        +6
        Maybe they are. And they blew the dust off the behests of the famous figure who argued that "to extol the leaders and the people, constantly maintaining a high degree of ideological pathos and hysteria" is one of the fundamental principles of propaganda.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 13 February 2021 15: 04
          +1
          Quote: Undecim
          constantly maintaining a high degree of ideological pathos and hysteria "- one of the fundamental principles of propaganda.

          Sounds very modern ..
    2. Walking
      Walking 13 February 2021 15: 47
      +5
      The quality of the editorial and moderation is poor. Editors should kind of check the quality of the material.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 13 February 2021 15: 57
        +6
        Such editors, who can adequately evaluate materials in such different areas, cost money.
        Yes, and there is no excess of those offering decent content, worthy also costs money, but you need to fill in the sections with something. The circle is closed.
  12. nnz226
    nnz226 13 February 2021 14: 38
    -6
    But for some reason, the "wise" command of the Red Army forbade (with the exception of reconnaissance, the Ural Corps and some other units) to have the Red Army soldiers in service with knives! Were they afraid that the commissars would be cut, or what?
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 15: 32
      0
      Quote: nnz226
      But for some reason, the "wise" command of the Red Army forbade (with the exception of reconnaissance, the Ural Corps and some other units) to have the Red Army soldiers in service with knives!

      Are they there now?
  13. The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 13 February 2021 16: 32
    -1
    And a black knife stabbed the fascist


    And in the photo, the fighter is trying to stick a knife into his helmet?
    1. Mordred79
      Mordred79 13 February 2021 17: 12
      +6
      Here the whole article publishes a unique smell of spreading cranberries)))
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 13 February 2021 17: 53
      +1
      Quote: Eye of the Crying
      And in the photo, the fighter is trying to stick a knife into his helmet?

      So are the reenactors.
  14. Hagen
    Hagen 13 February 2021 20: 09
    +3
    The blade was well placed in the hand with any grip, had a handle that was comfortable with the length and thickness, and was well balanced.

    It is immediately evident that the author is not an expert in knives. Confused about the names of the knife parts. Otherwise I would not have called the hilt part of the blade. It's not clear why you need to grab the blade with different grips?
  15. Tank hard
    Tank hard 13 February 2021 20: 22
    -1
    Finca, legendary weapon. But in the 80s and 90s of the last century and already in this millennium, Soviet, and now Russian citizens, created new systems of hand-to-hand combat using a knife. New concepts for short-bladed weapons were also created. A new concept has appeared - a frontal cut with a blade prick. Who are these innovators? Kochergin Andrey Nikolaevich (NDK-17, NDK-11 and his applied knife fighting system NDK-17 and the sports version of knife fighting - tanto jutsu), Kondratyev Vadim Vadimovich (Kondrat knife and its modifications and his ABF school), Kim Vitaly Lvovich (his Knife Porcupine and its derivatives and his school of non-return knife throwing). In my opinion, this is a real breakthrough in short-bladed weapons and a knife in particular, they completely changed the idea of ​​using a knife in an applied sense.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Tank hard
      Tank hard 13 February 2021 20: 51
      +1
      Quote: Tank Hard
      Kochergin Andrey Nikolaevich (NDK-17, NDK-11 and his applied knife fighting system NDK-17 and the sports version of knife fighting - tanto jutsu), Kondratyev Vadim Vadimovich (Kondrat knife and its modifications and his ABF school), Kim Vitaly Lvovich (his Knife Porcupine and its derivatives and his school of non-return knife throwing).

      1. Klingon
        Klingon 13 February 2021 23: 34
        +3


        Klingon Combat Knife wink
        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 14 February 2021 12: 54
          -2
          Quote: Klingon
          Klingon Combat Knife

          Yes, I realized that you are not in the subject. wink Well, that's good. The less you know, others sleep more calmly. repeat
          1. Klingon
            Klingon 14 February 2021 16: 44
            +2
            and you do not understand sarcasm. I feel sorry for you even laughing
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 14 February 2021 17: 13
              0
              Quote: Klingon
              and you do not understand sarcasm.

              Sarcasm is appropriate at the time and exactly on the occasion, otherwise it sounds like a not very smart line. Do you agree? wink
  16. Abram Ivanovich
    Abram Ivanovich 13 February 2021 21: 32
    +2
    I went to read it, I thought it would be about knives, but here is a movie and pathos.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 13 February 2021 22: 00
      0
      Quote: Abram Ivanovich
      I went to read, I thought it would be about knives

      about knives is for another resource.
  17. kit88
    kit88 13 February 2021 21: 41
    +8
    This knife is good for mass production with limited resources.
    Steel grade U-7.
    In fact, this steel is widely used in the manufacture of cleavers, axes, sledge hammers, hammers, chisels ... but not knives.
    Carbon. Very susceptible to corrosion.
    This is not 420, not X12MF or even 95X18.
    Our grandfathers fought with such weapons.
    1. Tank hard
      Tank hard 13 February 2021 21: 58
      0
      Quote: kit88
      Carbon. Very corrosive

      Carbon cuts better, keeps sharpening better. The main backbone of the famous Swedish knives "Mora" is carbon initially.
      1. kit88
        kit88 13 February 2021 22: 11
        +8
        High viscosity is yes.
        Mora has 4 types of steel.
        - stainless steel S - Stainless steel;
        - carbon C - Carbon steel;
        - modified carbon steel T-Triflex;
        - laminated L - Laminated
      2. kit88
        kit88 13 February 2021 23: 05
        +9
        The main backbone of the famous Swedish knives "Mora" - carbon initially

        In the lower price category - Basic is C, there is S.

        There is Pro C, there is Pro S.

        But the most popular - COMPANION, 2000, Kansbo - there is only stainless steel.


        1. Tank hard
          Tank hard 14 February 2021 12: 50
          0
          Initially carbon. wink Have you sharpened the knife yourself at least once?
          1. sibiryouk
            sibiryouk 14 February 2021 15: 19
            +6
            The bottom photo shows the MORA Outdoor 2000 knife, it has a 3-layer Sandvik 12C27N laminate blade
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 14 February 2021 17: 10
              0
              Quote: sibiryouk
              The bottom photo shows the MORA Outdoor 2000 knife, it has a 3-layer Sandvik 12C27N laminate blade

              And what, perhaps during the Second World War was already in production
              Sandvik 12C27N
              ?! On knives used massively by soldiers ?!
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 23: 28
      0
      Quote: kit88
      Steel grade U-7.

      At 10, 8xF.
      Quote: kit88
      Carbon. Very susceptible to corrosion.

      And no one seems to have applied massively stainless steel during the Second World War.
      1. kit88
        kit88 14 February 2021 00: 41
        +8
        I agree.
        There is a stainless steel diver.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 February 2021 01: 00
          +3
          Quote: kit88
          There is a stainless steel diver.

          Neptune himself ordered them.
        2. Tank hard
          Tank hard 14 February 2021 12: 49
          0
          Quote: kit88
          There is a stainless steel diver.

          Why do you think not from carbon, diving then the knife? wink
          1. kit88
            kit88 14 February 2021 12: 50
            +7
            so as not to rust
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 14 February 2021 12: 52
              -1
              Quote: kit88
              so as not to rust

              You see, you can when you want. And one more hint - the water is salty. wink
              1. kit88
                kit88 14 February 2021 12: 55
                +7
                I don't quite understand you. The water is salty, I agree. The knife rusts, I agree. Therefore, from stainless steel. Everything seems to be clear to everyone.
                1. Tank hard
                  Tank hard 14 February 2021 12: 56
                  0
                  Quote: kit88
                  I don't quite understand you.

                  Yes, I already understood, this, and not only me, the Mordvin answered about carbon at the Second World War, too lazy to do an educational program. repeat
                  1. kit88
                    kit88 14 February 2021 13: 01
                    +7
                    Yes, I already understood ..

                    Well, since I understood then we will limit ourselves to this.
                    hi
                    1. Tank hard
                      Tank hard 14 February 2021 13: 03
                      0
                      Quote: kit88
                      Well, time got it then we will restrict ourselves to this.

                      Did you sharpen the knife yourself, did you rule? Felt the difference between carbon and stainless steel?
                      1. alsoclean
                        alsoclean 14 February 2021 18: 56
                        +2
                        I apologize for interrupting your conversation. But right on the tongue the question is spinning - carbon steel 40X13 or stainless steel ??
                      2. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 14 February 2021 19: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: alsoclean
                        But right on the tongue the question is spinning - carbon steel 40X13 or stainless steel ??

                        You can read it straight, you don't need a language here ...
                        [media =https://vashnozh.ru/stal/40x13]
                      3. alsoclean
                        alsoclean 14 February 2021 19: 48
                        +5
                        And ... What I am reading:
                        1) Stainless steel - approx. On my own I will add - after proper heat treatment.
                        2) The carbon content is about 0,45% - it's kind of like a very carbon steel. On my own I will add - any scalpel is a very fragile thing. I suppose many of them broke them in childhood.
                        So what's the bottom line?
                        Medical tool - stainless steel. Bearings, springs - carbon.
                        Or did I not understand something? Or is my IS Blinov reference book not good enough?
                      4. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 14 February 2021 19: 51
                        0
                        Quote: alsoclean
                        So what's the bottom line?

                        And what do you want me to tell you, I'm not a thermist. Or do you still have to think for you? request
                      5. alsoclean
                        alsoclean 14 February 2021 20: 13
                        +7
                        What are you - what are you ...)). I just love "forty". Interesting stuff. Not for "housewives". Our factory thermal machine produced shafts for working in hot brine and for punching punches. All of her. The main thing is to correctly tune according to the Quenching-Vacation scheme.
                        Therefore, to your rhetorical question
                        Did you feel the difference between carbon and stainless steel?
                        I would answer - only after thermal hi
                      6. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 14 February 2021 20: 44
                        0
                        Quote: alsoclean
                        I would answer - only after thermal

                        Well, what are you)) I'm not a thermist ... repeat I can only compare what I used myself. It’s easier for me to sharpen the carbon Mora than the stainless steel Mora. Kimovskaya 95X18 is easier to drive than Balikoevskaya niolox wa. I look at things this way, down to earth. Powder steel is probably good, but somewhere far from "civilization", not everyone has diamond abrasives, not to mention sharpening machines, and not everyone knows how to sharpen. And the knife must always be in working order, this is at least. And here comes the first place to be able to straighten the blade, even on the edge of a ceramic plate, even on a pebble. And it is easier for me to correct the pestilence from "carbon" than from "stainless steel". And you kind of "got smart" here, thermist. Well done, take a pie from the shelf. wink
                      7. alsoclean
                        alsoclean 14 February 2021 22: 52
                        0
                        And the knife must always be in working order.

                        And this is the main thing - I agree. drinks
                        And you kind of "got smart" here, thermist. Well done, take a pie from the shelf.

                        Of course well done. And moreover, perhaps the only one here. So all the pies are mine fellow
                      8. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 14 February 2021 23: 00
                        0
                        Quote: alsoclean
                        Of course well done. And moreover, perhaps the only one here. So all the pies are mine

                        Well, you got into the conversation when an individual complained that during the Second World War knives for the army were not made of stainless steel, without thinking why it was. You just decided to "get smart" outside the context of the discussion. Eat, do not "get dirty". "Thermist" decided to troll laughing
                      9. alsoclean
                        alsoclean 14 February 2021 23: 09
                        0
                        Of course. Moreover, the "individual" rattled off his. So excuse me - if it didn't work .. bully
                      10. Tank hard
                        Tank hard 14 February 2021 23: 12
                        0
                        Quote: alsoclean
                        So excuse me - if it didn't work ..

                        And a passing one for you. wink
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 15 February 2021 09: 41
        -1
        Quote: alsoclean
        steel 40X13 carbon or stainless steel ??

        It is a corrosion resistant steel.
  • Klingon
    Klingon 13 February 2021 23: 28
    +3
    in the photo near the mechanic (in a light jacket) there is a Caucasian Dagger
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 13 February 2021 23: 41
      -2
      Quote: Klingon
      in the photo near the mechanic (in a light jacket) there is a Caucasian Dagger

      And where does he come from? Mehvod is the second from the left, in my opinion. And this is someone from the authorities. Or commissaries, or battalion commander, most likely.
      1. mojohed2012
        mojohed2012 15 February 2021 09: 11
        +1
        In battle, it is not the knife itself (like any weapon) that is important, but the desire and determination to use it, experience and skill, morale, determination, and also luck.
        Our ancestors defeated fascism and with the help of such knives too - honor and praise to them! And Navalny's detractor - for life in the zone!
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 15 February 2021 09: 17
          -1
          Quote: mojohed2012
          Navalny - for life in the zone!

          Amen. Long live the artist, singer, and just a good person Vasiliev! She also stomped on the zone, judging by the documents.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 15 February 2021 12: 11
    0
    it was necessary to put knives instead of guns on tanks instead of guns
    would kill so many tanks!
  • Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 26 March 2021 09: 12
    0
    Good article, instructive
  • lubesky
    lubesky 7 May 2021 14: 05
    0
    [quote = cat-rusich] [quote = Andrey Nikolaevich] The more veterans are silent about the war, the more young people want to get into a new war. [/ quote]
    How many horrors do not tell about the war, youth, youth will always be torn for it. From generation to generation, only the proportion changes, and at the level of statistical error. Usually I say - my personal opinion, but here I can confidently say - this is a historical axiom that does not require proof