Military Review

Combat aircraft. "Judah's goat" or goat provocateur

137
Yes, today's история just of these. Unconventional. And our hero is an airplane that was awarded such a very unflattering nickname as "Judas the goat."




The term is American. “Judah's goat” is a specially trained goat around which sheep gathered (normal practice on the prairie grazing), and the goat led them to the slaughter. The goat, of course, survived, which can not be said about the sheep.

We called such a goat a provocateur.

By the way, it is logical, because "provocateur" in Latin means challenging / starting battle. Skirmisher, if that's our way.

But our story has nothing to do with the world of gladiators, we are talking about airplanes.

It all began in 1942, when the British launched massive raids on Germany. In general, they began to fly much earlier, in 1940. But the Reich air defense and fighters instantly cooled the ardor of the British pilots and the raids became nighttime.

Combat aircraft. "Judah's goat" or goat provocateur


It is worth talking about the effectiveness of these raids separately, if the Germans are to be believed, until the end of 1943 the damage from the raids was minimal.

But the raids were carried out with ever larger masses of aircraft.

Now it is enough for us to imagine this nightmare show, when dozens and hundreds of planes rose from different airfields and flew ... We flew somewhere, in the direction. Hamburg, Cologne, Berlin ...



It is in the direction. Because the accuracy of reaching such a "small" target as a city depended on the navigator, who, in principle, flew over a pack of Belomor. Nothing, to put it mildly, not differing from the guys on sailing frigates, sailing somewhere there in the stars and the sun.

The principle was the same.

Therefore, if the navigator was good, the plane flew. No - well, sorry, there were plenty of factors that could drop a bomber to the ground. Plus air defense, plus fighters, both day and night ...

Luftwaffe fighters are a separate headache, because the Germans knew how to shoot down something. And they practiced everywhere. It was necessary to somehow defend against this, especially since at the time of 1943 there were not yet enough "Mustangs" or "Thunderbolts". There were Lightnings, but for the Focke-Wulfs this is just a very desirable goal ...

The British didn't even have that. Therefore, the entire first part of the Second World War, British bombers could only rely on themselves and their machine guns. Let's be honest - they had so-so with protection.



This means that salvation is only in close formation, where planes can concentrate fire on enemy fighters and cover each other.

"Box". As practice has shown, it is the best formation in order to somehow fight off fighters. An echeloned formation, in which aircraft had a chance to reach the target and repel attacks from enemy fighters.



The American "box" consisted of 12 aircraft, which were lined up in echelon and could defend themselves with 150 onboard heavy machine guns.

It is clear that this increased the likelihood of being hit by anti-aircraft fire from the ground. "Minus" of dense construction. It happened that bombs from the "upper" floors hit the planes flying below, about such "trifles" as friendly fire, we do not even touch. The fever of battle, we understand.

And here we come to the essence of our story.

Dozens of airfields from which hundreds of aircraft take off. This was normal, especially when the Air Force Commander-in-Chief Harris announced a program of raids of "a thousand bombers".



A thousand had to be raised. It is not easy, planes circled in the air for two or three hours, waiting for everyone to take off. The Germans learned to fly according to the principle "who where, and me to the north" very quickly.

So, it was necessary to lift the plane into the air. Next - to find "friends", that is, the link that made up the "box". Take your place in the formation. And then start moving towards the goal.

And all this was in complete radio silence, because with the Germans' radio interception service, everything was just fine.

As a result, one can imagine what a mess reigned in the air. The planes took off from different airfields at different times. Hundred. The planes got confused, united with foreign groups, collided. On average, there was one collision for every two missions.

Who came up with the idea of ​​using individual planes as a reference point is not known for certain today. It was definitely someone from the US Air Force, because the Americans were the first to paint such aircraft. Apparently, from the number of crews operating from British airfields.

This is how the "Assembly Ship", that is, assembly aircraft, appeared.





















Each battle group was assigned such an aircraft, which was painted by the forces of the group in the most flashy and bright colors. The plane was supposed to be recognizable for the pilots of its group both day and night.

It was a kind of beacon for other aircraft, to which they were attached and by which they were guided.

Usually, machines that had exhausted their resource were used for this purpose. They were made easier by removing the armor and part of the weapons, the crew was reduced (mainly at the expense of the riflemen), and the bombing equipment was removed. But they added a lot of aeronautical lights and equipped them with a large number of signal flares.

And "Goats" usually did not fly on combat missions. More precisely, they flew, but only up to the German air defense zone. Usually - because there were some that flew normally from start to finish.

What was the essence of the application?

They were flying beacons. After taking off and finding himself in the group gathering square, the pilot of each plane began to look for his "goat". And when he found it, he flew up and took his place in the order.

Further, the "goats", in whose crews there were the best navigators, gathered groups around them and led them to the target. Near the enemy's air defense zone, the "goats" turned around and returned to their airfield.

That is why the American pilots called the assembly planes "Judas Goats." There was an element of truth in this, yes.

In the end, however, the use of "Assembly Ship", or assembly planes, despite the offensive nickname, was deemed so successful that even when Mustangs and Thunderbolts appeared in delivery quantities, "Judah's Goats" still assembled planes in groups. and led them to the enemy lines.

The case when a rather unconventional solution turned out to be "golden improvisation".
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  1. polpot
    polpot 10 February 2021 18: 07
    +14
    Thank you, I read it with great interest.
    1. Proxima
      Proxima 10 February 2021 19: 47
      +16
      Of course, the author went too far about a tough joke with a pack of Belomor. The navigator of the bomber, using an astrocompass and other unpretentious instruments, as well as special maps, could quite accurately determine his location and correct the direction of flight. The problem is different, the starry sky is a bomber's nightmare. We recall the British raid on Nuremberg in March 44th. Forecasters promised continuous clouds throughout the entire route, but unfortunately for the British, just before Nuremberg the clouds parted and the entire British armada appeared in front of the Reich air defense in the reflection of the starry sky and the moon! fellow good Eventually, the British lost 108 (!!!) four-engine bomber. It turns out that getting to the target, the bomber, if necessary, can rise above the clouds and accurately reach the Object. But already over the city, no "ko-evil" can help him out! No.
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 11 February 2021 07: 47
        +3
        Quote: Proxima
        The navigator of the bomber, using an astrocompass and other unpretentious instruments, as well as special maps, could quite accurately determine his location and correct the direction of flight.

        You overdid it here ...
        And to put it bluntly, then completely "lied".
        1. Proxima
          Proxima 11 February 2021 11: 01
          -1
          Quote: Bez 310

          You overdid it here ...
          And to put it bluntly, then completely "lied".

          I suggest that you first figure out the topic of the question yourself, how, with the help of what instruments and devices and with what accuracy the Soviet navigator determined his location is acceptable during the Great Patriotic War, and then blame him for lying. Naturally, we are talking about cloudless weather (day or night).
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 11 February 2021 12: 13
            +5
            Quote: Proxima
            Soviet navigator

            I am - a Soviet navigator, in matters of aircraft navigation
            during the war I understand, most likely, the best at
            this resource, and therefore I boldly reproach you for lying.
            But there will be no further dispute, there is no point.
            1. Torukmakto
              Torukmakto 11 February 2021 15: 55
              +3
              He lied. OK.
              And how was it really? Share something. Once you understand the best.
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 11 February 2021 17: 10
                -3
                Quote: TorukMakTo
                Share something.

                No, I will not share.
                To understand flying, and be able to
                to drive planes, I studied at the school and in the military
                shelf for about 10 years. And teach you navigational business
                I won't be here, it won't work.
                You can learn primitive knowledge from the Internet,
                do not be lazy to ask questions on Google.
                1. Torukmakto
                  Torukmakto 13 February 2021 00: 13
                  +7
                  Quote: Bez 310
                  No, I will not share.

                  Nicely.
                  Try to put yourself in the shoes of an uninitiated person from a civilian world who is simply interested in various military topics and tries to understand it at least superficially, using a number of resources, including military equipment.
                  Such a person comes, sees an article, sees a discussion in the comments, in which supposedly some of the participants understand the subject of discussion (from their words exclusively).
                  He sees that the statement, which seems to be logical for, I repeat, an uninitiated person in the subject of a person (about the astrocompass and simple instruments) is directly called incorrect, and its author is a liar.
                  Asks the accuser, "what exactly is wrong?"
                  He hopes for at least a partial explanation - for example, I would have had enough, for example, something like "not only the astrocompass, the instruments are complex and in a complex, and in general it's not so obvious."
                  In response, a citizen of a citizen sees a position in the style of the well-known photograph of Novodvorskaya with a sign about "fools, and I'm the only one so beautiful here in a coat."
                  Absolutely unfounded for an outsider statements about "26 years of navigational work" against the background of such infantile statements cause bewilderment. Honestly.
                  There is no point in discussing and listening to a person with supposedly extensive experience, if in response you can hear with a high probability "I understand this issue best on VO, but you, my dear, google basic knowledge myself - that's not why I studied for 10 years, and I while I sit and scratch my ChSV "?

                  I sincerely hope that you will at least try to understand why I was so crucified here.
                  1. Bez 310
                    Bez 310 13 February 2021 08: 29
                    -3
                    Quote: TorukMakTo
                    You will at least try to understand why I was so crucified here.

                    Unfortunately, you are a prominent representative of modern
                    public, not wanting to bother, and demanding
                    everything and immediately in expanded form.
                    And where did I make such statements - "26 years of navigator
                    work "?
                    You don't have to answer ...
                    1. Torukmakto
                      Torukmakto 14 February 2021 14: 34
                      +2
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      requiring
                      everything and immediately in expanded form.

                      But I directly said what exactly would be enough for me - just a little)
                      And "everything at once" was not even close.
                      You twist perfectly, further conversation is really meaningless.
                      PS
                      Quote: Bez 310
                      And where did I make such statements - "26 years of navigator
                      work "?

                      The meaning should have been clear, but you decided to find fault with the little things.
                      "Not 25, but 26, and not just a navigator."
                      1. Bez 310
                        Bez 310 14 February 2021 14: 38
                        -1
                        Quote: TorukMakTo
                        further conversation is really meaningless

                        I think the answer is essentially unnecessary ...
                2. 89268170588
                  89268170588 21 February 2021 15: 43
                  0
                  Modesty is clearly not a virtue for you. You might think that the light has come down on you in aviation like a wedge, and only you are the only ones open to all the secrets of navigation.
            2. Proxima
              Proxima 11 February 2021 23: 33
              +2
              Quote: Bez 310
              I am - a Soviet navigator, in matters of aircraft navigation
              during the war I understand, most likely the best ...
              But there will be no further dispute, there is no point.

              What's the point in arguing with you about cheap internet! negative Went through YOUR posts. You also served as a navigator in the Far East for 25 years. One to one texts you copy-paste from the book "Naval Aviation" and pass off as your real life stories! Do not fall for so cheap, respect yourself! fool
              1. Bez 310
                Bez 310 12 February 2021 07: 54
                0
                Quote: Proxima
                You also served as a navigator in the Far East for 25 years.

                Do not lie!
                Not 25, but 26, and not just a navigator.
                There is no book, it was someone who collected some of my stories,
                and posted in some online libraries.
                I don’t think there’s a place for a showdown if
                you need something from me, then you here:
                https://t.me/moravchat
                1. Proxima
                  Proxima 12 February 2021 09: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Bez 310

                  Do not lie!
                  There is no book, it was someone who collected some of my stories,
                  and posted in some internet libraries.

                  Listen to the clown! There is such a book, the author Bezlyudov Mikhail Vladimirovich "" Naval aviation - there is! "I recommend reading it. And an amazing thing request there are extensive one-to-one paragraphs, word for word with punctuation marks, coinciding with "real" stories from YOUR LIFE. Members of the forum can be convinced of this, for example, by opening "your" extensive post dated January 9 this year. And remember: the liar (of which you accuse me in particular) must have a good memory, and you have neither memory, nor conscience, nor decency ...
                  1. Bez 310
                    Bez 310 12 February 2021 11: 40
                    +4
                    Quote: Proxima
                    There is such a book, the author Bezlyudov Mikhail Vladimirovich

                    There is no such book!
                    I know better, because I am
                    the same Mikhail Vladimirovich.
                    You would read my answers more carefully
                    you, and would have understood it long ago.
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 12 February 2021 11: 44
                      +3
                      Quote: Bez 310

                      I know better, because I am
                      the same Mikhail Vladimirovich.

                      What a twist laughing
                      1. Bez 310
                        Bez 310 12 February 2021 11: 48
                        +3
                        Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                        What a twist

                        Most interesting.
                        But I told him ...
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 19 February 2021 12: 40
                        +2
                        What a twist
                        Proxima: "Oh, how inconvenient it was!"
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 11 February 2021 09: 44
        +2
        in the defense operation near Nuremberg, half of the staples of German fighters allocated for defense against air raids and redeployed closer participated.
        The bombers were shot down mainly not by anti-aircraft guns, but by converted BF-110, Ju-88 and other specialized fighters.
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 11 February 2021 16: 17
        +1
        Not to mention, the British had H2S radar on every bomber.
    2. RealPilot
      RealPilot 10 February 2021 20: 14
      +12
      You have amused my love for aviation! Thanks to the author for the article.

      This is an ingenious solution. An experienced navigator for the whole group, forming an order for the leading aircraft, collecting only their wingmen ... Excellent.

      Nevertheless, a "k-o-s-e-l-provocateur" in a slaughterhouse can drive sheep for years and work off his rations without risking his life, and here the beacon plane is a priority target for fighters and anti-aircraft gunners. This is a high quality crew of special value.

      Therefore, serving and flying such an airplane is both a risk and even a recognition of skill.
      1. Avior
        Avior 10 February 2021 20: 51
        +5
        They mainly flew to the air defense zone, the article says, this is logical, with such a coloring
        Then unfolded
        1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
          Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 February 2021 22: 41
          +1
          Well, at an altitude of 10-13 km, probably the color does not matter? However, I am not a flyer and I do not know.
          1. Avior
            Avior 11 February 2021 00: 26
            +2
            If visually detected, it probably has
    3. Alien From
      Alien From 10 February 2021 22: 06
      +5
      Really interesting, and the pictures are generally a song! Thanks to the author)
  2. BISMARCK94
    BISMARCK94 10 February 2021 18: 11
    +14
    That's really something new. Never thought about how the Allies organized their air armada in an organized manner
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 10 February 2021 20: 28
      +7
      I join. For the first time I read and saw this "parrot" coloring)))
  3. SaLaR
    SaLaR 10 February 2021 18: 14
    +1
    At least a tuft of wool from a lousy goat ... laughing
  4. svp67
    svp67 10 February 2021 18: 16
    +7
    Because the accuracy of reaching such a "small" target as a city depended on the navigator, who, in principle, flew over a pack of Belomor.
    The Germans were more resourceful. To reach the target, they used directional radio beams, at least two, at the points of their intersection it was necessary to look for the original target
    1. Potter
      Potter 10 February 2021 18: 40
      +7
      Everybody used radio beacons. The "Judas" were needed primarily precisely to gather around themselves a large formation of bombers.
    2. Bez 310
      Bez 310 10 February 2021 18: 43
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      To reach the target, they used directional radio beams, at least two, at the points of their intersection it was necessary to look for the original target

      Not yet understood.
      Tell me more.
      1. svp67
        svp67 10 February 2021 18: 47
        +6
        Quote: Bez 310
        Tell me more.

        From two radio stations separated by several hundred kilometers, radio beams were directed exactly in azimuths. The planes had special receivers that picked up these signals, one of them could fly at all, keeping the direction, at the point of intersection of the beams and the maximum signal, it was necessary to look for a target, if possible, tying to landmarks visible at night.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 10 February 2021 18: 50
          +7
          Quote: svp67
          The planes had special receivers that picked up these signals.

          I seem to begin to understand your idea.
          Such "receivers" exist even now, they are called radio compass.
          1. svp67
            svp67 10 February 2021 18: 50
            +3
            Quote: Bez 310
            are called - radio compass.

            Yes,
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. dzvero
        dzvero 10 February 2021 19: 36
        +2
        in German:
        https://topwar.ru/151692-radiojelektronnaja-borba-vojna-magov-chast-1.html

        British:
        https://fonzeppelin.livejournal.com/71028.html

        here is more detailed:
        http://maxima-library.org/opds/b/389932?format=read
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 10 February 2021 19: 46
          +5
          Thank you.
          I know a thing or two about this.
    3. Bormanxnumx
      Bormanxnumx 10 February 2021 18: 46
      +9
      And the British, already in December 1941, directed their bombers to the target using their Oboe system, and at the same time conducted a successful electronic warfare against German guidance systems. And Roman flew on the "White Sea" until 43g. No.
      1. Niko
        Niko 10 February 2021 18: 55
        +12
        Roman always has something like that, and the source material is sometimes interesting, and the topic is not bad. But in general, the level: "educational program for middle school students"
    4. tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
      tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 10 February 2021 18: 51
      +6
      Well, the British led them away to false targets with false beams.
    5. Avior
      Avior 10 February 2021 20: 53
      +9
      The British were even more inventive
      They put false beacons-emitters for the Germans, leading to meeting points with air defense fighters
      1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
        Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 10 February 2021 22: 43
        +2
        Here, the Anglo-Saxons have always been insidious and harmful ...
  5. CTABEP
    CTABEP 10 February 2021 18: 18
    +3
    Very interesting, I first heard about such a practice. Someone thought of it :)
  6. mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 10 February 2021 18: 24
    -2
    An incomprehensible half-measure, why is it needed at all, i.e. if he did not climb into the air defense zone, then it turns out over the channel and went back.
    1. svp67
      svp67 10 February 2021 18: 54
      +11
      Quote: mr.ZinGer
      An incomprehensible half measure, why is it needed at all,

      Well, this is like colored parachutes for the commanders of airborne units, in a huge mass of planes that took off, and many of them took off at the same time, up to a couple of thousand, everyone knew their "guide", found him in the sky, approached and occupied a clearly agreed place in the squadron formation.
      Why did they leave. I think, due to the fact that any such a bright plane would be shot down in the first place, well, purely human psychology, people do not like those who stand out from the general system wink
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 10 February 2021 20: 02
        +3
        One-time leader of the pack
      2. Avior
        Avior 10 February 2021 20: 54
        +6
        He could be seen much better in the spotlight
  7. RoTTor
    RoTTor 10 February 2021 18: 25
    +11
    The article is interesting,
    but the author does not respect navigators and does not represent the real qualifications of the wonderful navigators of that era,
    when an excellent navigator was really in charge of the crew,
    the pilots carried out his commands and delivered to the place of the combat mission, the arrows guarded from enemy fighters, the radio operator and BI provided the working conditions.
    It is the navigator who leads the ship - both air and sea, quickly and accurately making navigational calculations on the NL, focusing on maps and stars ...
    There is also a navigator-bombardier, later a navigator-operator and more than one.

    The allies had an initiative for the navigator to be the commander of the bomber crew.

    Indeed, in the fleet, the helm turns the helmsman - i.e. private, and in command - navigator, from captain to 4th navigator.

    These are not the current bastards
    1. Bez 310
      Bez 310 10 February 2021 18: 46
      +12
      Quote: RoTTor
      The allies had an initiative for the navigator to be the commander of the bomber crew.

      And similar surveys were carried out in the SSR.
      Conclusion - the navigator is so busy during the flight
      that he does not have the ability to control actions
      other crew members.
      1. kytx
        kytx 11 February 2021 15: 14
        +2
        The Yaps quite officially had the navigator in charge of the bomber jacket.
        And the pilot is just a "gasket between the steering wheel and the seat"
        :)
      2. Misha_an26
        Misha_an26 30 March 2021 17: 26
        0
        On the 3rd year of Balashovskaya Bursa in flights with cadets.
    2. svp67
      svp67 10 February 2021 18: 56
      +2
      Quote: RoTTor
      It is the navigator who leads the ship

      No, the ship is being led by the commander of the ship, and the navigator only indicates or suggests a course, but the decision is always up to the commander
      1. Bez 310
        Bez 310 10 February 2021 19: 04
        +14
        Quote: svp67
        ship commander

        The plane is led by the navigator, and the commander is piloting the plane.
        Now he does not even pilot, but the navigator controls
        by plane through the navigation system and
        automatic on-board control system (NK + ABSU).
        There is a special discipline - flying, so
        it's not about piloting at all.
        1. Bez 310
          Bez 310 10 February 2021 19: 47
          +7
          Quote: Bez 310
          Airplane navigator

          Just wondering who is putting the cons -
          pilots or navigators?
          1. dzvero
            dzvero 10 February 2021 19: 54
            +17
            Flight engineers, because if the engines of that, then the pilot and navigator are superfluous smile
            1. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 10 February 2021 20: 07
              +5
              Now the flight engineer is on board as a rarity from the red book, at least in passenger aviation
            2. Bez 310
              Bez 310 10 February 2021 20: 32
              +6
              Quote: dzvero
              Flight Engineers

              Neither the Tu-160, nor the Tu-22m3 have sidechairs, and
              somehow manage, and cope with the engines.
          2. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 11 February 2021 04: 16
            +7
            Quote: Bez 310
            who puts cons

            These are stowaways, "hares" of our site IN! angry
          3. dmmyak40
            dmmyak40 11 February 2021 10: 50
            +2
            Pilots! This is definitely them! wassat
            1. Bez 310
              Bez 310 11 February 2021 10: 55
              +5
              Quote: dmmyak40
              Pilots! This is definitely them!

              Yes, definitely pilots!
              I have always believed that all the harm in aviation comes from the pilots.
              1. dmmyak40
                dmmyak40 15 February 2021 00: 11
                0
                Only from them: they are generally potential criminals!
              2. Kamchatsky
                Kamchatsky 18 February 2021 09: 15
                0
                Like a classic: "The navigator is a boorish brat, he wants women and wine. But let him into the wardroom and pour a glass for knowledge of the tricky sciences ..." laughing drinks
    3. mr.ZinGer
      mr.ZinGer 10 February 2021 20: 00
      +4
      I thought about the qualifications of the pilots and navigators of the military transport aviation, who flew to the Germans in the rear, at night without any GPS, get out the desired point, land the plane guided by the fires and take off.
  8. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 10 February 2021 18: 28
    +3
    And how did the planes of the USSR rise and fly in hundreds / thousands?
    Massive raids took place. For example, the bombing of Helsinki in 1944, where 800-900 or more aircraft participated.
    1. Potter
      Potter 10 February 2021 18: 52
      +8
      In the Air Force of the Red Army, there was a service of ZOS - ground support for air navigation. It included radio beacons, drive radio stations, radio direction finders, communication radio stations, light beacons. Even in the first raid on Berlin by the 1st MTAP BF, a drive radio station and an RPK-2 radio semi-compass were used. By 1945, the number of these aircraft navigation systems had increased tenfold, and the entire combat zone was provided with them. At the end of the war, drive radio stations were located even in Italy, in Bari, in the territory controlled by the Allies.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 10 February 2021 19: 22
        +9
        Quote: Potter
        In the Air Force of the Red Army, there was a service of ZOS - ground support for air navigation. It included radio beacons, drive radio stations, radio direction finders, communication radio stations, light beacons. Even in the first raid on Berlin by the 1st MTAP BF, a drive radio station and an RPK-2 radio semi-compass were used. By 1945, the number of these aircraft navigation systems had increased tenfold, and the entire combat zone was provided with them. At the end of the war, drive radio stations were located even in Italy, in Bari, in the territory controlled by the Allies.

        Thanks. It is very interesting. There are things that you simply don’t think about, everything seems to be the way it should be, and these are serious and complex tasks.
      2. MstislavHrabr
        MstislavHrabr 10 February 2021 23: 25
        +3
        We and the Germans had a similar aircraft navigation system. Before the war we studied together ...
    2. Undecim
      Undecim 10 February 2021 18: 54
      +12
      For example, the bombing of Helsinki in 1944, where 800-900 or more aircraft participated.
      Firstly, there were never more than 900, the most was on February 26-27, 1944 - 896. But at the same time they did not rise into the air. The raid lasted 11 hours, in three waves.
      By the way, out of 5182 bombs in the city of Helsinki during this raid, as many as 290 bombs hit, that is, 5,6%.
      1. A. Privalov
        A. Privalov 10 February 2021 19: 24
        +4
        Thanks. I knew about the event, but did not remember the exact numbers. hi
      2. Redfox3k
        Redfox3k 10 February 2021 19: 35
        0
        As far as I understand, such precision of bombing was no coincidence? Meaning: get out of the war or are all 5182 bombs right on target?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 10 February 2021 19: 38
          +11
          As I understand it
          You don't get it right. This was the accuracy achieved at that time during night raids.
          1. Redfox3k
            Redfox3k 10 February 2021 19: 40
            +1
            I get it. Thanks for clarifying. yes
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 21: 26
            +5
            Quote: Undecim
            As I understand it
            You don't get it right. This was the accuracy achieved at that time during night raids.

            Just before leaving, I received Stalin's instructions that, simultaneously with supporting the offensive actions of the Leningrad Front troops, all the necessary measures were taken to prepare an attack on the military-industrial facilities of Finland in such a way that the execution of this task would begin in a matter of hours after receiving the order. Strike at the port of Helsinki, a railway junction and military targets located on the outskirts of the city. Refrain from a massive blow to the city itself.

            ... On the night of February 7, such a blow was struck. Shortly thereafter, one of the prominent industrialists in Sweden turned to our envoy in Stockholm A. M. Kollontai {112} and informed her that the representative of the Finnish government, Mr. Paasikivi {113} had an order to find out the conditions for his country's withdrawal from the war
            ... On February 16, an unofficial meeting between Yu. K. Paasikivi and AM Kollontai took place. On the same day I received an order from Stalin to repeat the raid on the Helsinki region, which was done.
            ... On the night of February 27, another blow was struck in the Helsinki region. If the mass of planes that took part in this raid struck Helsinki itself, then we can say that the city would cease to exist. The raid was formidable and the final warning. Soon I received an order from Stalin to stop the military activity of the ADD in Finland. This was the beginning of negotiations on Finland's withdrawal from the war.

            http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/golovanov_ae/30.html
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 10 February 2021 21: 59
              +5
              I have great respect for Aleksandr Evgenievich Golovanov, but with regard to the bombing of Helsinki, his memoirs are questionable, just like your categorical "Exactly." By the way, for what reason, in 1972, Golovanov's memoirs in the October magazine were never printed, do you know? And other participants in the raids did not cover this event especially.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 22: 10
                -1
                From there.
                Here is what the newspaper Morgon Tilningen wrote about this:

                “The bombing of Helsinki was probably a preliminary warning. The Russians wanted to show Finland what would happen if she herself did not take the initiative and did not quit a game that she, apparently, could not win. If the Russians were able to send planes to Finland, when they need aircraft to support important operations in the Baltic states, then this indicates that the Russians have superiority in the air. The Russians want to negotiate to force Finland out of its current position. Otherwise, they will abandon the passivity that reigned for a long time on the Finnish front. "

                Personally, I find it hard to imagine that all three raids on Helsinki missed the city center so unspecifically.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 10 February 2021 22: 18
                  +5
                  Personally, I find it hard to imagine that all three raids on Helsinki missed the city center so unspecifically.
                  The first raid hit the city center with 350 bombs.
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 22: 18
                +3
                Well, if you don't like Golovanov's memoirs, then we take Reshetnikov's memoirs.
                We did not touch the city. Our goals were very specific military and administrative-political objects - a port, a shipyard, railway junctions, industrial enterprises on the outskirts of the city. “To abstain from a massive attack on the city itself,” Golovanov was ordered. The mass and class of bombs, depending on the nature of the target, and the effect of defeat was achieved. As for the "walking" bombs, which flew into city blocks in considerable numbers, these standard hundred-kilogram bombs, which constituted the main ammunition load, could not bring much destructive damage to their large and durable structures.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 10 February 2021 22: 41
                  +2
                  Our goals were very specific military and administrative-political objects - a port, a shipyard, railway junctions, industrial enterprises on the outskirts of the city.
                  So military and industrial facilities were not bombed. Unfortunately, it is not possible to find anywhere instead of memoirs materials of the Allied Control Commission in Finland (FCCC). There must be a real picture.
                  Meanwhile, Izvestia No. 32 (8334) of February 8 wrote about the "ruins of Helsinki."

                  Is it really like with an battleship here?
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 22: 52
                    0
                    Quote: Undecim
                    Is it really like with an battleship here?

                    Again, I will quote Reshetnikov:
                    After Finland's withdrawal from the war, senior officials from our Soviet military leadership visited her capital. The voyagers expected to see solid ruins instead of the city, but it turned out to be standing still, and the destruction that befell him did not make a discouraging impression. Someone launched the assumption that the Finns, in anticipation of the bombing, built a false city in the vicinity of their capital, through which the ADD was discharged.

                    But that was not the case. We did not touch the city.

                    http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/reshetnikov_vv/03.html
                    Paasikivi's diaries, in my opinion, described negotiations with Kollontai in 44 and their connection with the bombings, but I did not find these memoirs, but read them for a long time, and I do not really remember what he wrote there.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 10 February 2021 23: 01
                      +5
                      We walk in circles. You are based on the memoirs of Soviet military leaders. With all due respect to them, I am cautious about covering such issues in these memoirs, and the Finnish battleship confirms that caution is justified.
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 23: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Undecim
                        We walk in circles.

                        I also found little official.
                        The most interesting evidence is the report of the head of the Helsinki Air Defense on February 7. (This document is given in full in the appendix. It draws attention to the fact that Soviet intelligence received and transferred this "secret Finnish paper" to the command already on February 11, 1944)

                        Apparently, never again did the Soviet ADD bombers manage to inflict such significant damage to the enemy's shipping as a result of a night raid. According to Finnish sources, on the evening of February 6 in the southern harbor, as a result of a direct bomb hit, the cargo steamer Patria (695 grt) went under water, in the port of Sandvik the cargo steamer Antares (1381 grt) caught fire and was sunk by its crew, and also died small patrol boat VMV-12 (35 t).
                        Perhaps this is the battleship.

                        In each blow, the Russians attacked the area of ​​the railway station, dropping bombs on the track facilities. Twelve hours after the last raid, railway workers managed to restore one of the tracks. According to Miettila, the Kalma area suffered the most - all wooden houses were burned down, dozens of schools, several universities were destroyed, a metalworking plant and a shipyard were partially destroyed; A high-yield bomb hit the Valkoniyavi Kaarti (White Guard) barracks and completely destroyed the brewery.

                        Sorry for the beer. crying
                        https://litvek.com/br/160117?p=18
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 10 February 2021 23: 46
                        +4
                        Perhaps this is the battleship.
                        No, the battleship is a different story.
                      3. Undecim
                        Undecim 10 February 2021 23: 48
                        +1
                        Someone, instead of intelligible thoughts, quietly pokes a minus.
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 11 February 2021 00: 08
                        -1
                        Quote: Undecim
                        Someone, instead of intelligible thoughts, quietly pokes a minus.

                        Yes, let them poke, although they hardly have intelligible arguments. The above link contains maps of the bombing of Helsinki, but there is too little evidence of destruction to give more or less accurate estimates. But there is no doubt that they played their role in the negotiations.
                      5. Undecim
                        Undecim 11 February 2021 00: 14
                        +2
                        And the fact that the raids played a role, no one denies. The discussion is exclusively about technical aspects. To be honest, British and Finnish sources describe the situation somewhat differently and note the role of the Finnish air defense. I hope the adherents of the fight against "rewriting history" are already asleep, otherwise it will begin ...
                      6. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 11 February 2021 00: 18
                        -1
                        Quote: Undecim
                        and note the role of the Finnish air defense.

                        But how. Here is a little from the report of the air defense commander.
                        At the end of the report, it can be noted that of the 200 tons of bombs dropped by the enemy, thanks to the good work of the air defense service, only incomplete 10% hit the city, and the rest fell in the vicinity or into the sea. In rural areas, residents watched from planes firing machine guns at burning buildings.

                        Now it is possible to identify those objects of the municipal economy to which the raid was directed. These are Yatkässari harbor, Katajanokka harbor, railway station - all of them can be considered military targets. Taking into account all the defeats and damage inflicted on Helsinki, it should be concluded: the raid reminded with all severity that the war continues. Many people often forget about this, especially in the rear. Now it is necessary to draw the correct conclusion from all that has happened, so that in subsequent, possibly heavier raids, the accumulated experience should be taken into account.

                        Air Defense Commander Lieutenant General Aarne Sihvo Assistant Commander Colonel Heinrich.
                        https://litvek.com/br/160117?p=23
                        This is a February 7 report.
                      7. Undecim
                        Undecim 11 February 2021 00: 40
                        +4
                        One more point. On October 5, 1944, the plane of Zhdanov, Chairman of the SKKF, landed in Helsinki.
                        And on December 4, ADD was disbanded. Golovanov from the commander of the ADD, subordinate to Stalin personally, becomes the commander of the air army subordinate to the commander of the air force. Coincidence?
                      8. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 11 February 2021 01: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: Undecim
                        becomes commander of the air force under the command of the commander of the air force. Coincidence?

                        No, according to Reshetnikov. Air Force Commander Novikov drew Zhdanov's attention to the fact that the city was actually intact, and connected all this with the fact that the Finns were not so willing to negotiate. Well, Novikov has long wanted to subordinate the ADD to the Air Force. Golovanov was in the hospital at the time.
                      9. Undecim
                        Undecim 11 February 2021 01: 27
                        +3
                        Do not you find a contradiction in the fact that on the one hand they seemed to give instructions not to bomb the city, and then they are surprised that it was not bombed? And, judging by the reaction, they reported that they had been bombed.
                        And Reshetnikov was in Helsinki in 2004. I met with Geust (who wrote the book by the Red Army in the Finnish war, it is also in Russian).
                      10. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 11 February 2021 08: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Undecim
                        Do not you find a contradiction in the fact that on the one hand they seemed to give instructions not to bomb the city, and then they are surprised that it was not bombed?

                        Of course I do. Only now no one knows what Stalin was guided by when making this decision. One of the reasons is also called a decrease in the radius of action of ADP. But this is all guesswork on the coffee grounds.
                      11. Tochilka
                        Tochilka 11 February 2021 16: 50
                        0
                        Geust Karl Frederick? I am familiar with his article on the use of captured Soviet aircraft in the Finnish Air Force.
          3. Lexus
            Lexus 11 February 2021 00: 10
            +4
            Corrected hi,
            I liked very much your cultural discussion with Vladimir.
          4. Undecim
            Undecim 11 February 2021 00: 18
            +6
            Yes, normal discussion has been rare lately. More and more srach is practiced with the transition to personalities. One character today got so inflamed that he began to swear obscenities, though the admins stopped him in time.
          5. Lexus
            Lexus 11 February 2021 00: 36
            +4
            Due to the "optimization" of specialized medical institutions, some of their patients were released in peace without any medication. That is why they suffer from incontinence and throw themselves at people. In "politics" their darkness.
          6. Undecim
            Undecim 11 February 2021 01: 28
            +5
            Oh, and someone "rushed" at you from those who cannot live without pills.
          7. Lexus
            Lexus 11 February 2021 01: 44
            +4
            "These" the red color brings to the "squirrels", and from overexcitation they "go for themselves."
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 11 February 2021 11: 22
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    By the way, for what reason, in 1972, Golovanov's memoirs in the October magazine were never printed, do you know? And other participants in the raids did not cover this event especially.

    Is it "Vyborg Vanya-Manya "did not the naval drowned? Well, at least they reported about his sinking (and only the second time - the first time the naval sbap could not hit a stationary target)."

    And as for the accuracy of reaching the target of our DBA - you can recall the raid on Stockholm in 1944.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 11 February 2021 11: 30
      +1
      Wasn't the Vyborg Vanya-Manyu naval sinks?
      I did not consider the question of who exactly sunk the battleship "Vainameinen". I mentioned him only because of how sometimes the content of reports and reality differ.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 11 February 2021 11: 43
        +2
        Quote: Undecim
        Wasn't the Vyborg Vanya-Manyu naval sinks?
        I did not consider the question of who exactly sunk the battleship "Vainameinen". I mentioned him only because of how sometimes the content of reports and reality differ.

        Ahh, well, yes. EMNIP, Isaev wrote that in the same 1944 in Belarus during "Bagration" a commission from the headquarters of one of the air armies in hot pursuit checked on the ground the applications of attack aircraft and bombers for the equipment destroyed at the BSHU. The results were, to put it mildly, depressing.
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 21: 28
    -1
    Quote: Redfox3k
    Meaning: get out of the war or are all 5182 bombs right on target?

    Exactly so, above is the memoir of Golovanov.
  • VladGTN
    VladGTN 11 February 2021 21: 48
    0
    I am now more worried about how the fascist aviation organized massive raids on Leningrad. For three years.
  • URAL72
    URAL72 10 February 2021 18: 29
    +1
    Interesting and informative. Thanks to the author.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 18: 55
    0
    Interesting, cool ... thanks for the article.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 10 February 2021 19: 17
    +7
    there were some that flew normally from start to finish.
    There was one such -, B-24H (USAAC Serial No. 41-28697), Spotted Ass Ape (Spotted Monkey), collector of the 458th Bomber Group.
    .
    The plane completed more than 60 missions until March 9, 1945, it crashed while landing.
    1. Avior
      Avior 10 February 2021 20: 59
      +6
      Wasn't there a limit of 25 missions, after which the crews were transferred from the raids to Germany?
      "Beauty Memphis" is remembered just for this purpose was filmed.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 10 February 2021 21: 09
        +5
        Now I looked at my commentary, it turns out that I missed to indicate that "to the end" Spotted Ass Ape flew once, on December 6, 1944, participating in the raid on Bielefeld.
        1. Avior
          Avior 10 February 2021 21: 12
          +4
          From the point of view of the command, it would be logical to prohibit such aircraft from flying into the air defense zone, even if the crews wanted
          hi
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 10 February 2021 21: 16
            +2
            Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to find the circumstances of this departure, so I cannot say what caused such a flight.
            The crews of these vehicles changed periodically.
    2. shrus79
      shrus79 13 February 2021 12: 17
      +1
      Spotted Ass Ape
      rather, a Spotted-Assed Monkey. Rough army humor.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 10 February 2021 19: 18
    +3
    An interesting solution, of course, extremely lightweight with a small crew, well, he has to stay in the air a little longer until everyone gets together.
  • Redfox3k
    Redfox3k 10 February 2021 19: 30
    +2
    good Did not know! Thanks!
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 10 February 2021 20: 07
    -1
    Yes, the name of course))) Just a little bit - Juden))) Eurocoat! )))
  • Pavel57
    Pavel57 10 February 2021 22: 29
    0
    An interesting touch of war.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 10 February 2021 22: 37
    +2
    So they are what "goats". I read a lot of memoirs for the raids on Germany. Some did not even mention them. It's clear why! Thank you, especially for the photo. To fly on such "barns" day or night, suicide bombers in one word. They are a tribute to them. They are heroes, thank them very much for that! Only the fruits of this heroism were used as usual by politicians. In Edinburgh, the old man dumped out of the bar, you are Russian, yes, Russian, well, they sat with grandpa, the owner of the bar is his grandson! For a pack of Belomor as a present, my grandfather shed a lot of tears, he remembered his youth. Edinburgh, opposite the town of Metsill. 1996.
    1. Quadro
      Quadro 11 February 2021 03: 10
      +1
      So they did not even enter the air defense zone, why are they suicide bombers? In fact, he flew in the rear.
  • paco.soto
    paco.soto 10 February 2021 23: 15
    +1
    Thank you. Didn't know about it until now.
  • Michael
    Michael 11 February 2021 00: 30
    +1
    That's how tricky. Are you used to mobile phones?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Quadro
    Quadro 11 February 2021 03: 08
    +2
    But the name "Judah k0zel" is inappropriate for me. Judas is a traitor, and the pilots knew where and why the plane was taking them - just a guide. According to the amerskoy logic, the boatswains of whom are also hired for the passage are Judas kozly.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 11 February 2021 11: 17
      0
      There is not any contradiction - in relation to their relatives, sheep - leading them to death is a traitor, Judas and in general a goat, who he is according to his passport.))) The pilots knew that not everyone would return with a guarantee. With the Bochmans it is more difficult - they initially know a safe fairway and the path of the pilot and the chances of everyone going to survive are equal to 98% in the flyers 50/50 and sometimes less.
    2. Sergey M. Karasev
      Sergey M. Karasev 11 February 2021 19: 27
      0
      bosuns who are hired to pass

      It лotzmans. Boatswains are responsible for order on the ship.
  • tasha
    tasha 11 February 2021 04: 58
    +6
    An experimental color scheme for the assembly aircraft - B-24 with its own name "Minerva".
    1. Waltasar
      Waltasar 11 February 2021 06: 38
      +6
      I thought I would break my eyes)
    2. evgen1221
      evgen1221 11 February 2021 11: 14
      +2
      The coloring apparently made sense - When I dreamed of flying on a fast fighter, they gave me a half-killed beaver and made me work as a goat.))))
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 February 2021 11: 46
      0
      Quote: tasha
      An experimental color scheme for the assembly aircraft - B-24 with its own name "Minerva".

      Either the textures are crooked, or they are lagging. smile
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 11 February 2021 11: 11
    +1
    But the only effective solution is in the radio silence mode and the need to gather together a large crowd.
  • Biodred
    Biodred 12 February 2021 07: 34
    0
    Just a trick that came from fighter aircraft. The Yankes, and ours, practiced the presence of a leading aircraft in the ferrying of fighters, i.e. fast bomber, which in the crew, in contrast to the "small", had a navigator.
  • Bez 310
    Bez 310 12 February 2021 11: 36
    +1
    Quote: Proxima
    There is such a book, the author of Mikhail Vladimirovich Bezlyudov "" Naval aviation - is!

    And I say - there is no such book!
    I know better, because I am
    the same Mikhail Vladimirovich.
  • Dmitry V.
    Dmitry V. 12 February 2021 11: 37
    0
    The author forgot about the radio compasses, which accurately guided groups or single bombers to the target, jokingly "about navigating a pack of Belomor".
    During the raids on the Gorky Automobile Plant in Nizhny Novgorod, German bombers used ... the Moscow radio station named after the Comintern for radio navigation.
    Accurately reaching the city in blackout was not a problem, but the exact exit to the target, accurate bombing depended on the leaders, how they "suspended" the lighting bombs (garlands in the RAF).
  • shrus79
    shrus79 13 February 2021 12: 20
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Either the textures are crooked, or they are lagging. smile
    The gunsmiths were probably cursing. The machine guns tripled or even quadrupled in the eyes.
  • Reklastik
    Reklastik 17 February 2021 01: 09
    0
    But the raids were carried out with increasing masses of aircraft
    "We have become better dressed ..." How I love this recognizable style laughing laughing laughing
  • Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 20 February 2021 15: 44
    0
    Kozel-Judah was kept in every slaughterhouse,
    led the sheep into the corral from the street.
    Then he was released, and the sheep were killed.
  • trahterist
    trahterist 20 February 2021 22: 33
    0
    Quote: Bez 310
    Quote: TorukMakTo
    You will at least try to understand why I was so crucified here.

    Unfortunately, you are a prominent representative of modern
    public, not wanting to bother, and demanding
    everything and immediately in expanded form.
    And where did I make such statements - "26 years of navigator
    work "?
    You don't have to answer ...

    We had a teacher in the "tower", on an engineering torch (for fuel equipment), a very intelligent uncle, a teacher from God, as he was called, for his talent to explain just for the most stupid.
    And he had one brilliant expression-
    If you cannot explain complex things in simple language, then you have a vinaigrette in your head and you don’t understand the topic with a probability of 99,99%.

    So reduce your arrogance and mentor tone, for there are strong doubts about your experience in Real life.
    But the experience of trolling and show-off on the Web is undoubtedly felt.
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 19 March 2021 23: 52
      0
      I support. Somewhere in the ancients else
      it is said that if (I in my own words)
      adult uncle, 5 year old child
      cannot explain what he does,
      then he is doing nonsense.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Wojciech Zlatovich
    Wojciech Zlatovich 23 February 2021 23: 18
    0
    There is also a video on the topic
  • Andytur999
    Andytur999 28 February 2021 15: 46
    0
    Quote: RealPilot
    the beacon plane is a priority target for fighters and anti-aircraft gunners

    As the author writes, they, for the most part, escorted the wingmen only to the enemy's air defense zone. So they had a chance to survive. This does not diminish their feat.
  • Timofey Astakhov
    Timofey Astakhov April 5 2021 22: 44
    0
    Thank you, where did you get the map of British airfields? I want to download myself in Hayrez
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 9 May 2021 21: 57
    +1
    One of the factors, as at one time, squeezed the IL96 out of flights to the United States. Ikao introduced a coefficient of error, how much an airplane flying across the ocean can deviate from a given course. We're talking about a late 80s development machine. There was no GPS yet, only analog devices. Let's add here the exhaust and noise of the Il96
    And - ap, they stopped flying to the USA