Military Review

The critical element base of the Pantsir-S1E is at the disposal of the AFRL laboratory of the US Air Force. Tula KBP has a new task

170

Photo: factmil.com


As you know, numerous military experts, as well as observers and commentators of the "Military Review" and other domestic military analytical platforms, focusing the audience's attention on the utopian nature of attempts to fully remove the source code of the "Pantsir-S1E" combat information and control system even through the most advanced software -Hardware tools and "add-ons", extremely recklessly took the information about its redemption by the US Armed Forces from the militarized formations of the Government of National Accord (PNC) of Libya with further movement from the US Air Force "Ramstein" (FRG) airbase to the "Wright-Patterson" (state Ohio).

Analysis of the electronic architecture of the Pantsir-S1E air defense missile system will present a number of unpleasant surprises for the Russian Aerospace Forces and the Russian Navy


Meanwhile, it would be extremely naive to assume that the transfer to the disposal of American specialists of even the export (with partially "cut down" element base and software components of the SUV) modification of the "Pantsir" will not be fraught with certain consequences for both the Air Force Anti-Aircraft Missile Forces and The Russian Navy, which has a naval modification of the Pantsir-M / Palitsa complex.

Indeed, today on the shoulders of the combat crews of the data of the Tula air defense systems (as well as on the shoulders of the operators of the Izhevsk self-propelled air defense missile systems "Tor-M1V / 2U", as well as the computerized control system of their ship version - the "Dagger" air defense missile system) is entrusted with a very difficult task of forming the last line of defense ground and sea anti-aircraft zones A2 / AD, which consists in covering the "dead zones" and "dead craters" (in the case of "Pantsir-S1 / M") anti-aircraft missile regiments S-300PS / PM1 / 2 and S-400 Russian Aerospace Forces , anti-aircraft missile battalions and brigades "Buk-M1-2 / 2", S-300V / 4 military air defense, as well as shipborne SAM S-300F / FM "Fort / -M".

The choice of the Wright-Patterson airbase as the final delivery point for the captured Pantsir-C1 was not at all accidental.

After all, this object belongs to the well-known in the expert circles of the US Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL ("Air Force Research Laboratory"), which is an analogue of the Russian Central Research Institute of the Air Force Troops of the Russian Ministry of Defense (TsNII VVKS) and specializing in detailed analysis of aerodynamic / flight technical parameters of any aircraft (from tactical aviation and UAVs to guided missiles, hypersonic OTBR and air-to-air missiles), electrodynamic parameters (including EPR) of aircraft and ground-based air defense / electronic warfare / RTR systems, as well as parameters of their electronic architectures and principles of operation of guidance and control systems.

With a high degree of probability, it can be argued that not only specialists from the Air Force Research Laboratory will take a direct part in the analysis of the parameters (and, possibly, field tests with the reflection of a conditional massive missile-air strike) of the electronic filling of the "trophy" "Pantsir-C1" USA AFRL, but also competent representatives of the Raytheon Space and Air Systems division of the military industrial corporation Raytheon, as well as the military industrial giant Lockheed Martin.

Their main task will be to assess the effectiveness of the 10ES1-E multispectral optoelectronic guidance system and the 1PC2-1E "Helmet" PFAR guidance radar in detecting, tracking and "capturing" promising high-precision samples being developed by these corporations. weapons in a difficult jamming environment.

In particular, despite the impossibility of full-fledged withdrawal of the source code of the Pantsiria-S1E weapons control system, specialists from the AFRL laboratory, as well as from the military-industrial corporations "Raytheon", will still be able to access a number of critical tactical and technical parameters of the 96K6E air defense missile system, which have the maximum similarity with the parameters of the standard modification "Pantsir-C1", intended for the Russian Aerospace Forces.

First of all, we are talking about obtaining data on the level of noise immunity of the receiving paths of the centimeter radar detector based on the PFAR 1PC1-E (operates in the X-band), as well as the millimeter-centimeter radar for target tracking and guidance of the 1PC2-1E "Helmet" missile defense system (functioning in the X / Ku-bands) under conditions of interference from the promising container complex electronic warfare AN / ALQ-249 (V) 3 NGJ-HB ("Next Generation Jammer - High Band") Increment 3, operating in the frequency range from 6 to 18 GHz (G, H, X and J-bands of centimeter waves) and capable of forming a powerful and narrow (about 0,5-1 degrees) interference beam, thanks to the presence of AFAR emitters based on gallium nitride microwave transistors.

Determination of this parameter will become possible both in the course of field tests of the AN / ALQ-249 NGJ-HB Increment 3 complex against the Pantsir-S1E radar modules, when AFLR specialists, acting as a combat crew of the "captured" ZRPK 96K6E, will attempt to "tie the tracks »Air targets against the background of radiation from the AN / ALQ-246 (by the method of target marker selection against the background of interference background), and in the course of software and hardware determination of the bit width of the phase shifters of the Shlem radar transmit-receive modules and the level of its side lobes.

On the basis of the data obtained, the specialists of the Raytheon corporation will be able to develop and load into the on-board computers the NGJ-HB EW complex supplied to the US Air Force combat units an individual counteraction mode for the Pantsirei-C1 radar guidance subsystem with flexibly simulated amplitude-frequency parameters.

Secondly, AFRL employees get access to the element base of the 10ES1-E multispectral optoelectronic complex.

The design features and parameters of the optical components of the optoelectronic complex (optical magnification / zoom range, aperture, aperture, etc. TV / IR modules), as well as the type, geometric parameters and resolution of its matrix photodetectors will be determined.

Based on these data, it will be possible to determine the maximum effective bearing range for heat-contrast targets with different infrared signatures in various meteorological conditions.

An equally weighty list of consequences can be fraught with the access of our overseas "colleagues" from the AFLR laboratory to the programming principles of coding and frequency parameters of the radio command guidance channel of the 57E6E missile defense system, the laser transponder channel (located in the tail part of the 57E6E missile defense unit), as well as protected radio exchange channels information on the tactical air situation between the 96K6E combat vehicles as part of the battery / division / mixed anti-aircraft missile brigade (including target distribution and receiving target designation from third-party radar and optical-electronic reconnaissance means).

All these factors must be taken into account (with appropriate processing and / or reprogramming of units) by the specialists of the Tula KBP in the course of further serial production of the late version of the complex - Pantsir-S1M and the revision of the promising Pantsir-S2 air defense missile system.
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  1. Dread
    Dread 11 February 2021 05: 33
    +32
    Author! SAM "Pantsir-S1E", and "Pantsir-S2" in service with Russia - these are completely different complexes! Even their radars are different, which can be clearly seen in their photographs. Russia is already armed with the Pantsir-SM air defense system.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 11 February 2021 06: 12
      +36
      And all the same, it is not good that Armor was "captured". The self-liquidator did not work ...
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 11 February 2021 06: 39
        +9
        If the noise immunity of the complex is based on the fact that jamming it with some signal is not difficult, but it is believed that the enemy does not know about this, then I would suggest working on normal noise immunity. Otherwise, they will redo it, they will look into it again, and again they will have to redo it.
      2. Civil
        Civil 11 February 2021 07: 20
        -3
        They will not succeed, everything has changed at the factory since the release of this Shell. From equipment to workers. Not to mention the assembly, which is powerfully different from the batch. For example, when this Armor was assembled, there were no sanctions, so they took everything that came from the market. Now the conditions are different, the details are different.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 11 February 2021 08: 12
          +42
          From equipment to workers

          that is, we have the "Shell" drawing. One worker came - made a coffee maker, another came - made "Armata"? laughing You are probably not aware of the existence of working documentation?
          For example, when this Armor was assembled, there were no sanctions, so they took everything that suited the market

          that is, they shoved one microcircuit from Gorbushka - they got one frequency of the tracking radar. You stuck another one already with Mitino - got a different frequency? So what? laughing Shine! You would think that the rocket will not accept, but we will confuse the enemy laughing
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 February 2021 10: 53
            +11
            Quote: Ka-52
            Shine! You would think that the rocket will not accept, but we will confuse the enemy

            yeah, I also laugh at this comment laughing
          3. Alien From
            Alien From 11 February 2021 18: 56
            +2
            Ka-52 is critical as always) but here I completely agree with him!
          4. akarfoxhound
            akarfoxhound 11 February 2021 19: 06
            +7
            You know, I am not strong in the element base of Pantsir, but I was somehow quite surprised by the tanks: a tank division (Sapernoe) was stationed next to our flight camp, and I brought the case of a conversation with a "local" tank officer. He said that in the 2x division there are no identical T-80s, because with enviable regularity KBshniki changed something in production, respectively, in the drawings. He said that if something turned up, you'd get bogged down to look for a donor, roughly speaking, one engine mount kingpin is 5 cm, another 12 and the diameter of another, well, etc. Tovarischi scholars of dissertations with degrees will be pleased to defend, changing and "improving" on trifles and occasionally on "size", they cut money, make a career.
            The funny thing is, I read about it from Vasily Reshetnikov, the legendary pilot who bombed Berlin at 41 and the commander-in-chief of our long-range aviation throughout the 70s. He said that while the electronic warfare station on the Tu-95 with the frequencies of the Super Saber F-100 was finally put into production by the end of the 60s, the Americans had already begun to remove them from service. And the station was ready by the year 59, then the men in white coats helped to extract "scholarship". Book "307 sorties"
            1. Elturisto
              Elturisto 12 February 2021 08: 25
              -6
              It would be better to recall how Reshetnikov pushed the Tu-160, as an analogue of the B-1, with their moronic concept of breaking through air defense at supersonic, including rounding the terrain. Reshetnikov is still a goose, an anti-Soviet, besides, he also brags about it and wanted to fly with the breeze.
              1. akarfoxhound
                akarfoxhound 12 February 2021 10: 11
                +1
                Vasil Vasilich, as a professional, is a very respected person among the flight crew today. And this is by no means because of the shoulder straps.
                In addition to your unfounded emotions, I would very much like to know what your professional attitude is to KDA or Air Defense?
                1. Elturisto
                  Elturisto 12 February 2021 17: 27
                  -4
                  Is there anything to object to?
                  1. akarfoxhound
                    akarfoxhound 12 February 2021 19: 37
                    0
                    Do not evade, the question was just about the case, so that such a thing about Vasil Vasilich scribbled - who are you ???
                    To whom and about what to object? The uttered nonsense, sketched by a tourist (shoemaker, lawyer, loader ...) who has read around the war murzilki - this is a "case" to which one must object ??? Appeal to an insulting non-professional rlynocy?
                    1. Elturisto
                      Elturisto 12 February 2021 23: 53
                      -5
                      In general, he himself writes this in his book :), which you have not read, of course, since you are busy writing stupid comments. What exactly do you have against the shoemakers and loaders? -Happy climbed, forgot who feeds and serves you? The post was not about the pilot, but about the commander of long-range aviation, the difference is caught by a professional :). Goshkov, they all together ruined the USSR. No economy of such "professionals" will survive.
                      1. akarfoxhound
                        akarfoxhound 13 February 2021 16: 43
                        +1
                        Firstly, unlike you, I do not have such a rly to have anything against loaders and shoemakers in a conversation about rigging and shoe repair;
                        Secondly, the most dear "feeder of the country", You will poke your drinking companion on your glass-box;
                        Thirdly, if a person is a respected professional in the army, then this is from the entire flight personnel of the Air Force KDA an objective assessment not only as a pilot, but also as a commander (many good "just" pilots in DOSAAF rumble on aerobatics and pollinate the fields) and your arrogant opinion from the manager of sandals - not worth the laces of flying boots Vasil Vasilich;
                        Well, on the kampot - you were mistaken, having thrust your amateurish schnobel into a topic distant for you, I do not communicate with a board fence with a three-letter erotic inscription scrawled, about the greatness of love and the diversity of the Kama Sutra, but why should you make an exception?
                        So, as Shakespeare wrote in Sonnet 16: "Take a walk, Vasya!" drinks
                      2. Elturisto
                        Elturisto 13 February 2021 18: 55
                        -3
                        you write a lot not on the case ... Reshetnikov, that he was born an air marshal? Who fed him, taught him, dressed him all this time, are you? Who was the bastard feeding the lice in the trenches, so that people like you would have the opportunity to be born? does aviation contain the working people?, for the sake of records, or maybe because Reshetnikov decided to be no worse than the Americans? You are a typical example of a loafer and a parasite, you find a lot without sandals like your Vasil Vasilich ... it is not enough for such professionals to smear their foreheads with brilliant green ... professionals fucking ruined such a country ... There is no longer DOSAAF-kayuk, professionals have also tried ...
            2. Dmitry V.
              Dmitry V. 12 February 2021 13: 11
              +2
              Quote: ElTuristo
              the moronic concept of a supersonic air defense breakthrough


              Amateur - Tu-160 went to the line of use of cruise missiles, long before approaching the air defense lines.
              1. Elturisto
                Elturisto 12 February 2021 17: 35
                -5
                And why approach the line of supersonic missile launch? An amateur is you. The B-1 concept was created as a response to the appearance of the S-75, which drove all types of aviation down. And this was even before the massive introduction of the CD as a strategic weapon and the consumption of air defense systems capable of intercepting aircraft at low and ultra-low altitudes, so the Tu-160 is a stupid monkey with the B-1, the stubborn generals from the military-industrial complex ravaged the country with their crazy wishes.
          5. Yarr_Arr
            Yarr_Arr 12 February 2021 14: 46
            +1
            308 sorties.
            So, to clarify :)
            1. akarfoxhound
              akarfoxhound 12 February 2021 14: 55
              0
              Thank you, I could forget
      3. Flooding
        Flooding 11 February 2021 08: 36
        +4
        Quote: Civil
        For example, when this Armor was assembled, there were no sanctions, so they took everything that suited the market

        Yes, there is already that Armenian Ashot on the market, from whom they took "everything that suited".
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 11 February 2021 19: 58
          +4
          already that Armenian Ashot is not there, from whom they took "everything that suited".
          Wah, why is the respected one so talking !? There, today and tomorrow, Arman trades - sovsem gives a new chip ... laughing
      4. avg
        avg 11 February 2021 10: 37
        +10
        Quote: Civil
        They will not succeed, everything has changed at the factory since the release of this Shell.

        There was a time and there was an opportunity to receive samples of NATO equipment, and we brought these samples from all over the world. All attachés and military advisers were sharpened for this and sometimes received orders.
        So, the loss of the "Shell" should not be scorned, but the penalties for the transfer of equipment, including. through third parties must be tough.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 01
          +2
          So, the loss of the "Shell" should not be scorned, but the penalties for the transfer of equipment, including. through third parties must be tough.
          so the operator zabugorny otmazhitsya that these are combat losses and truncated !? wink Although it is sad that 12 kg., Explosives were not enough to "bury" the complex ... sad
        3. roll
          roll 13 February 2021 05: 03
          +1
          Ha-ha, at least 100-500 oghualiards, they still won't pay ... They don't need Russian equipment and even get rid of their BMP-3 ...
    2. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 11 February 2021 07: 36
      +15
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      And all the same, it is not good that Armor was "captured". The self-liquidator did not work ...

      Do you think nobody studied export shells?
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 11 February 2021 15: 58
        -3
        here is another dangerous - now the states can quickly rivet their shell.
        they have a hole with air defense and they want to plug it with something. and here is such a gift.
        1. Mikle2000
          Mikle2000 11 February 2021 21: 02
          +1
          What exactly can fly to this hole and from where?
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 12 February 2021 09: 04
            -1
            whatever.
            for example, ordinary UAVs that do not reach Khmeimim.
            well, or KR who also did not fly.
            but in Saudi Arabia, they flew over and covered their strategic facilities, which were covered by far from modern weapons, but the Patriots .... but what about the Patriots?
            by the way than Avenger will destroy the CD launched with the Su-34, for example?
        2. Yarr_Arr
          Yarr_Arr 12 February 2021 14: 49
          0
          It has become easier, but not all at the click of your fingers.
          Remember at least the rocket engines ...
          Amers even have documentation !!!! But there are no engines
    3. RealPilot
      RealPilot 11 February 2021 11: 36
      +4
      War is like war. We'll have to take this into account and make changes, although the new complexes are already different from the captured, the question is how much.

      If we wanted to prevent this development of events, we would not sell export modifications.

      We are still waiting for surprises with the export S-400! This is where problems can start ...
    4. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 11 February 2021 14: 37
      +4
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      And all the same, it is not good that Armor was "captured". The self-liquidator did not work ...

      Was he there?
    5. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 February 2021 15: 45
      +3
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      And all the same, it is not good that Armor was "captured". The self-liquidator did not work ...

      So "Armor" was originally made for a foreign customer - the UAE. And for their money - it was they who paid for the completion of work on the air defense missile system, when our state did not have money for this. And the Emirates are the best friends of the United States.

      We are accustomed to exporting weapons in service with the RF Armed Forces. So, in the last 20 years, the situation sometimes develops exactly the opposite: the Russian Armed Forces are equipped with modified export models of weapons: the Su-30 of two modifications, "Pantsir", FR 11356.
      And on "Pantsir" the question is, rather, not to "Oboronexport" (why sold?), and to the native MO: how much has the filling been changed originally export products when it is finalized for the RF Armed Forces?
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 11 February 2021 16: 01
        -1
        I will duplicate the comment - it was not brought in for disassembling the operating frequencies, but what the raiteons would make their own shell on its base, because all they do is crafts based on Stinger from Cywinder, and this is with a range of less than 10 km. and for 20 km they (more precisely, the Norwegians) only succeeded on the basis of AMRAAM. By the way, the price tag of AMRAAMa is already $ 4 million per shot.
      2. Alien From
        Alien From 12 February 2021 03: 39
        0
        And foreigners will buy "bad" ???
      3. roll
        roll 13 February 2021 05: 05
        0
        Few, inexpensive cosmetics and customization of your / someone else's.
    6. YOUR
      YOUR 12 February 2021 13: 43
      +1
      What a captivity. The Arabs themselves sold their air defense missile systems to the Americans.
    7. cat Rusich
      cat Rusich 13 February 2021 14: 10
      0
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      And all the same, it is not good that Armor was "captured".
      Question...
      In the event that the United States officially submits an application for the purchase of the Pantsir-S1E air defense system, in the amount of 2 pieces ... - Will Russia sell? I explain ... "Pantsir-S1E" - goods for sale, the United States is the same buyer as the UAE or Turkey, or any other foreign country, I'm talking about the fact that when selling "Pantsir-S1E product" you don't have to bother with "And what if ...". We decided - "You can sell Pantsir-S1E" - that means "responsible uncles" have counted everything, took into account all the risks ... - nothing terrible will happen in the future. Or why did Russia sell the S-1999 to Cyprus in 300 (and Cyprus under pressure from Turkey "voluntarily" handed over the S-300 to Greece in 2006-07), Turkey S-400 (export version). ZRPK "Pantsir" was first "published" at MAKS-1995 ...
    8. novoku
      novoku 14 February 2021 05: 33
      0
      I have some vague doubts that there is a continuous fraudulent setup around, and an article from the same opera.
  2. aars
    aars 11 February 2021 06: 16
    +6
    Even so, although the continuity is still extremely high - money for two independent developments can only be in dreams - foreign customers are not alternatively gifted and realized that the effectiveness of export shells has dropped dramatically.
    Those same Jews, having detailed, detailed information, will be able to resist much better.
    Nothing good, in short.
  3. Yngvar
    Yngvar 11 February 2021 06: 32
    +31
    This is Damantsev! From the first lines it is clear that fair criticism of the author had no consequences ...
    The fact that the Tula took into account the factor of falling into the wrong hands of this product is understandable, and that there is a constant improvement of the complex is also clear!
    It’s not clear from a twice-read article, should we crawl towards the cemetery or will we wait?
    1. military_cat
      military_cat 11 February 2021 06: 41
      +6
      I disagree. It used to be impossible to read, now it is possible.
      1. dSK
        dSK 11 February 2021 09: 05
        +3
        The deal to sell the Su-57 to Libya's neighbor Algeria may also end in a "resale" ...
        1. Mitroha
          Mitroha 11 February 2021 19: 39
          +2
          I don’t understand, many people think that the export of weapons does not take into account that it can fall into the hands of a potential enemy? Not necessarily a resale, a trophy can too. It is not necessary to trade with such thoughts and weapons. Selling the old, not many will take. And to trade modern, it is so natural on the assumption that it will be studied by everyone who gets to it. There is no other way. So no need to inflate an elephant from a fly
        2. roll
          roll 13 February 2021 05: 06
          -1
          The Algerian general also has 4 wives, mothers-in-law and each one needs.
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 11 February 2021 09: 05
      +6
      Quote: Yngvar
      It’s not clear from a twice-read article, should we crawl towards the cemetery or will we wait?

      I think we have to live! Think for yourself ... the places in the cemetery are already occupied, allocated ... and who should bury? request
      1. Yngvar
        Yngvar 11 February 2021 09: 56
        +3
        I agree! Optimists are the last to die, so more optimism for us!
        1. SovAr238A
          SovAr238A 11 February 2021 14: 59
          +3
          Quote: Yngvar
          I agree! Optimists are the last to die, so more optimism for us!


          They always die first. First.
          Always and in everything.
          Do not substitute slogans for reality.
          Then with a saber on a tank.
          That asphalt tanks on foreign territory in a quick war.
          Then feed the white bear.
          Then swim with sharks.

          Thoughtless optimism is a sign of a lack of intelligence or knowledge, or simply brain deviation.
    3. Urs
      Urs 11 February 2021 14: 26
      +2
      Maybe for our air defense this loss is no longer so critical, but for what is sold for export and is next in line for sale, the blow can be tangible. The speaker has already said about this, the buyer will think about whether he needs it if it is not already so effective and not so "armor-plated". The bottom line is BABLE.
    4. Azimuth
      Azimuth 11 February 2021 17: 26
      +5
      Critical element base, multispectral guidance systems, high-energy, low-emission, high-modulation ..... Zhenya inserts a text between these words in each article, and the articles are "fancy". And from the title of Damantsev's article, one can see it a mile away, I immediately scroll down and only read the comments. And there it comes to the massacre. Do not come off
      1. Alien From
        Alien From 12 February 2021 08: 14
        +1
        Dear, here is a peaceful forum)
    5. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 11 February 2021 20: 02
      +2
      This is Damantsev!

      "Chef, the truncated is gone! Tomorrow they remove the plaster!" laughing
    6. Intruder
      Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 04
      0
      It’s not clear from a twice-read article, should we crawl towards the cemetery or will we wait?
      Better trample while the old lady is the planet !!! Skipping in line, everyone who wants to the next world ... wink
    7. VIT101
      VIT101 11 February 2021 20: 12
      +2
      Quote: Yngvar
      The fact that the Tula took into account the factor of falling into the wrong hands of this product

      History is silent about how much the Tula took this factor into account. And the fact that those around Putin who have a good profit from the sale of our equipment abroad are not a secret. It is hard to imagine what would have happened if ours, by analogy, somehow managed to take out the export version of the American Patriot from the Saudis. And our "patriots" swallowed silently, like it's okay. So Damantsev wrote everything correctly.
      1. Antokha
        Antokha 12 February 2021 14: 47
        0
        And our "patriots" swallowed silently, like it's okay.

        Why was it swallowed? I think this is very, very unpleasant. And it is not a fact that the manufacturer was pledged to hit the enemy with equipment. It is one thing to understand that it is possible and to talk about it, it is another thing to really take expensive methods of counteraction already during development.
      2. Inspector
        Inspector 14 February 2021 21: 32
        0
        Sold profitably ...
        Who finally decided to sell critical weapons ???
        Belenko stole for nothing - a traitor. And for money like you can ?? Everything according to Lavrov.
    8. niksfromru
      niksfromru 17 February 2021 14: 36
      0
      If "everything is taken into account", so maybe then it's time to remove the secrecy label from the product? ;) Another A.S. Yakovlev, in his memoirs, noted the importance of studying trophy technology not only from the point of view of evaluating it itself, but in order to understand in which direction his opponents think when creating new samples.
  4. 2534M
    2534M 11 February 2021 10: 38
    +2
    Quote: Dread
    Russia is already armed with the Pantsir-SM air defense system.

    fool
    visit a narcologist
    maybe he will help (although it is unlikely ...)
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 11 February 2021 13: 20
      +1
      SM-SV is already being tested for sure. Since September last year, they have been trying to include him in the air defense brigades.
  5. YOUR
    YOUR 12 February 2021 13: 41
    0
    Not an air defense system, but an air defense missile system - an anti-aircraft missile-gun complex.
  6. niksfromru
    niksfromru 17 February 2021 14: 31
    0
    The "weak link" can be found in the most unexpected part (for example, in a mechanical drive), which is the same for the entire "platform".
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 11 February 2021 05: 56
    +3
    All of these factors must be considered
    The author, you think that these factors are not taken into account in armaments (including air defense systems) being exported. The possibility of an air defense missile system falling into the hands of a potential enemy was taken into account by the developers (read and programmers) at the design stage. By the way, experts on this fact ("Pantsiru" in the hands of the United States) have long answered that this case poses no threat to the Russian air defense.
    1. alstr
      alstr 11 February 2021 14: 55
      +5
      I will add that in the EXPORT version, the communication unit is ALWAYS different from what is supplied to your army.
      Moreover, usually these units are supplied by the customer's side and, moreover, are installed already at the customer's site, since This is a secret equipment.
      1. yaglon
        yaglon 11 February 2021 21: 45
        0
        There the defendants change their own or another's and that's it. And yet - they put on the air conditioner.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 11 February 2021 06: 04
    +5
    Reality - some benefit, for themselves, minke whales can get if they want.
    There are no critical losses on our part and there will never be.
  • Old tanker
    Old tanker 11 February 2021 06: 22
    +4
    Another article by Damantsev is meaningless and written only in order to remind a loved one of himself.
    1. Professor
      Professor 11 February 2021 07: 35
      +10
      Quote: Old Tanker
      Another article by Damantsev is meaningless and written only in order to remind a loved one of himself.

      You are absolutely wrong. I agree with the author. The Americans will disassemble 96K6 and 1PC1-1E and find out that a target with an RCS of 0,2 m² at a distance of 36 km is detected with a probability of 0.7 at a noise level of 30 dB, and 1PC2-E RCS of 0,1 m² at a range of 20 km at 23 dB with 0.8 respectively. At the same time, even a schoolchild knows that the 57E6-E interceptor is equipped with a proximity fuse with an operation radius of 7-9 m, which ensures the destruction of targets with an EPR of 0,1-0,3 sq. meters at a distance of 20 km. Accordingly, the total probability of hitting an F-16 type target at a range of 17-26 km is 0.4, but this is in the export version on the MAN chassis. When the system is placed on a tracked chassis, the electromagnetic compatibility of the 1PC2-E "Helmet" radar with the left track reduces the target detection range by 20% due to the shift of the center of gravity of the entire system to the right by 20 cm. It's elementary.

      Respect to the author. More such articles. hi
      1. Momotomba
        Momotomba 11 February 2021 07: 51
        +14
        Quote: Professor
        When the system is placed on a tracked chassis, the electromagnetic compatibility of the 1PC2-E "Helmet" radar with the left track reduces the target detection range by 20% due to the shift of the center of gravity of the entire system to the right by 20 cm. This is elementary.

        And why then did they not abandon the left caterpillar in principle? It would be possible to leave only the right one. Or at least ground it ...
        1. Professor
          Professor 11 February 2021 08: 02
          0
          Quote: Momotomba
          And why then did they not abandon the left caterpillar in principle? It would be possible to leave only the right one. Or at least ground it ...

          This question should be addressed to the author. He will explain popularly as usual. This is probably all due to the need to avoid roll when scuba diving system. After all, it is known that the 9M335 / 57E6 is waterproof and is designed for firing from under water.
          1. Momotomba
            Momotomba 11 February 2021 08: 08
            +4
            Quote: Professor
            firing from under the water.

            I'm sorry, maybe she can also fly? In the West, after all, they have long been fighting over the secret of a submarine on an air cushion in the steppes of Ukraine ...
          2. Dodikson
            Dodikson 11 February 2021 16: 08
            0
            hmmmm, 9M311 (57E6) was created by order of the Arabs (although if you take it initially, the shell was made as a replacement for Tunguska, but then it was hammered and only with the order of the Arabs it was pulled out from under the floor) for firing from under the water?
            I thought that the UAE is a country of deserts, but it turns out it is the Middle East Atlantis.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 11 February 2021 11: 03
        +8
        Quote: Professor
        I agree with the author

        Oh, guys ... I have a Split Personality today! And both are eager to comment on E. Damantsev on the VO page! What can you do? We'll have to give free rein to everyone!
        I. Whatever it was, but the "acquisition" of the "Shell" by the state members is an unpleasant fact! You can, of course, give arguments in the manner of reading the mantra: "Hare Krishna, Hare Rama ... hare.hare ..." , but what is the price of such "arguments" if in fact we do not know anything concrete about "shells"! There is an opinion that the export option is "one thing", but "to myself" is another! And what is "one" and what is "another"? Do not forget that in the 90s "Pantsir" was not interesting to the RF Ministry of Defense ... from the word "absolutely"! Here KB and dreamed of handing the air defense system to "anyone" ... from the Papuans to the Martians! It can be assumed that the tady KB was not up to the preservation of secrets! "Not to fat, maybe I would live!"
        Oh well! Currently, we can talk about export and "pro-Russian" options .... But who is sure that there is "nothing in common" between them? If this were so, then it is worth talking about two different complexes! Maybe this would be correct, but it does not always work out, it is not always economically feasible! Yes, one can, of course, assume that in the export and pro-Russian versions there are different radio frequency bands, the principles of encryption of commands for the control equipment of the zur ... "this" is not used in the pro-Russian version! This is already something! We must not forget that the radio frequency range is not "rubber" ... and the number of encryption algorithms is not infinite! And what about methods of "filtering" radio interference, target selection? Radar transmitter power, control equipment ... receiver sensitivity? You can always "dig up" a lot of useful things from studying enemy weapons!
        II. Is the devil really as scary as his baby? (A popular saying of the Wehrmacht ...) When the "Armor" was sold to the UAE, an ally of the United States, was it possible that the "smart" was turned off? And if there is no (or not much ...) difference between the export and "domestic" options, then why add the letter E ... to the name for show-off? Take radio command guidance ... What did they do with the radio command system !? Only a "short" list (!): 1.С-25; 2.С-75; 3.С-125; 4. "Circle" ... The mentioned air defense systems scattered all over the "world"! But, in spite of this, they still do not abandon the "radio command"! And "Shell" is an example of this! Or another example ... SAM "Kub" and "Buk-M"! Both here and there semi-active radar seeker! SAM "Cube" (not only in the variant "Square" ...) has already fallen into other people's hands! But the Buk is still accepted for service ... (9M38,9M317) ...! Maybe Eugene was "caught" by M. Twain's joke: "Don't spit on the floor! Remember the Mississippi spring floods!" ...?
        1. Momotomba
          Momotomba 11 February 2021 20: 11
          +1
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          the number of encryption algorithms is not infinite

          I will tell you a secret: in accordance with GOST it is one)) the most interesting thing is that this GOST is even unclassified and you can familiarize yourself with it. I have no doubt that the Americans have read it. The whole catch is in the keys for this algorithm. Americans use AES and you can also read about how the algorithm works on the Internet.
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          RF range is not "rubbery"

          Any air defense specialist can roughly tell the range in which the communication between the missile and the launcher will work (in terminology I can be wrong), roughly name the minimum allowable signal-to-noise ratio for normal missile control and other characteristics. So I absolutely agree with you: there is nothing to be afraid of, let them look and envy :)
        2. Intruder
          Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 40
          +1
          But, having established the radio band and the principle of encryption of commands in the export version, the state members can be "almost" sure that "this" is not used in the pro-Russian version! This is already something! We must not forget that the radio frequency range is not "rubber" ... and the number of encryption algorithms is not infinite! And what about methods of "filtering" radio interference, target selection? Radar transmitter power, control equipment ... receiver sensitivity? You can always "dig up" a lot of useful things from studying enemy weapons!
          description of deep reverse engineering in all its glory, especially "with Russian surnames" in the research labs of MIT and from Stanford, one can already believe that everything will work out with the "partners" and they will be able, and will reach the level of "disassemble to a screw" and "learn everything you can"!
          1. Tusv
            Tusv 11 February 2021 21: 36
            +1
            Well Damantsev is still a shot. How he spoke. How can you use a manual ball nowadays? This is an anachronism. All the presenters have been using advanced technologies for a long time. It seems to be close to the text. But! Jews have been using and teaching the Yankees to shoot down medium and near targets in the last five years. And Israel has long been a number for tvu (sorry for the transcription) in air defense
      3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 February 2021 14: 10
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        It's elementary.

        laughing laughing like Sancho Panza's pony. Thank you, Professor!
      4. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 11 February 2021 15: 09
        +4
        Quote: Professor

        Respect to the author. More such articles. hi


        Translated article. This is evident from the insufficiently hidden use of Google Translate.
        so Damantsev is not the author.
        .
      5. viktorR
        viktorR 11 February 2021 15: 38
        +2
        I didn’t slap a little minus while I was reading it, too thin for a log like me :)
      6. Ramzaj99
        Ramzaj99 11 February 2021 19: 18
        0
        Quote: Professor
        I agree with the author. The Americans will disassemble 96K6 and 1PC1-1E and find out

        Enough to suffer idiocy. Already 15 years ago, when the Pantsir was exported, entire institutes from the states came to the UAE to study and characterize it.
        All they wanted to know was learned 15 years ago)) They will not learn anything new from the trophy ...
      7. Tusv
        Tusv 11 February 2021 21: 27
        0
        Professor. Officially. Russia did not supply Libya with Armor. These Shells were given to Haftar by the customer, the Emirates, as obsolete. It's like taking apart Vityaz and KM SAM (also Russian development, but average for South Korea) and scrupulously comparing. In a word, Damantsev. He sees the ringing and let's graphomaniac
      8. Alien From
        Alien From 12 February 2021 06: 13
        0
        Well, you bent .......
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 11 February 2021 07: 08
    +6
    The sale abroad of the complex certainly assumes that some "partner" will either try to "dig deeper" or "dig deeper" in the filling. And surely the experts are no more stupid than the author and have made certain steps in leveling the troubles from such cases.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 11 February 2021 07: 15
    +5
    That is why I appreciate Domantsev's articles, in them, like in a good detective story, the author keeps the audience in a state of tension, and in the finale it remains only to sigh in sorrow, not knowing how the famously twisted plot will end. ... crying lol The fact that the Pantsir, even the export one, went to the foe of wine and our special services. It was necessary to inflict a targeted strike at its base in Libya with "unknown combat aircraft." You can argue until you lose consciousness about whether the Yankees will receive our secrets or not, but the possibility of losing such equipment, even in the export version, must be neutralized by the defeat and elimination of the sample of our equipment captured by the enemy ...
    1. Evil543
      Evil543 11 February 2021 07: 37
      -1
      It was necessary to inflict a targeted strike at its base in Libya with "unknown combat aircraft"

      This should have been done immediately after supplying them to a potential enemy's ally. good
  • Guards turn
    Guards turn 11 February 2021 08: 16
    +3
    Myanmar will buy the Tula air defense missile system "Pantsir-S" The contract for the supply of anti-aircraft missile and gun systems "Pantsir-S" was signed by Russia and Myanmar. Also, as part of an agreement with the Asian state, it will purchase Orlan-10E radar stations and unmanned aerial vehicles. According to TASS, Deputy Defense Minister Colonel-General Alexander Fomin left his signature on the document on the Russian side. weapons. A service center has been set up in the country to service Russian military equipment.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 11 February 2021 08: 48
    +3
    Mr. Damantsev, have you ever thought that sending such equipment for export is not only aimed at getting money?
  • mark1
    mark1 11 February 2021 09: 04
    +5
    I don’t understand why this problem of the Arab "Shell" took everyone by the heart ... Americans regularly receive samples of our modern, and not so, weapons. We sell something ourselves, such as the S-300 or the Kh-31, or the post-Soviet ones. Be sure Tu-160, Tu-22M3 Voyevoda, Molodets, Kh-55 ... and further to the horizon, everything has been studied (there is no doubt about the S-400, especially the transfer of technology, even if not )
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 46
      0
      Be sure Tu-160, Tu-22M3 Voyevoda, Molodets, Kh-55 ... and further to the horizon, everything has been studied (there is no doubt about the S-400, especially the transfer of technologies, even if not critical )
      To hell, there are samples obtained in Soviet times, by the way, as one of the examples: the Pima Air & Space Museum (located in the city of Tucson, Arizona), there is something that in the Russian Federation itself is no longer and will not be !!! Or German gliding museums, many types of gliders of the Soviet design school (KhAI gliders) in excellent "preservation" and the Germans themselves are proud of this, by the way !!!
  • Alt 22
    Alt 22 11 February 2021 09: 43
    +5
    From the first lines it became clear - Damantsev. I read it to the end, looked at the author - I was not mistaken)
    1. Dimonst
      Dimonst 11 February 2021 22: 46
      +2
      You can see it in the first paragraphs. Immediately evokes the department of tactics from his youth. As always, an energetic report in one breath where everything is in a bunch good And rightly so, what's the difference - "Motorized rifle platoon on the offensive" or "Organization of the protection and defense of the airfield." The main thing is to get more abbreviations, etc. I figure out what will happen if a friend is also taught to read SB, SP, PE, ShE, etc. on electronics bully
  • prior
    prior 11 February 2021 09: 51
    +6
    Effective managers from Rosoboronexport are no different from the managers of other offices selling something abroad.
    The main thing is "green candy wrappers", they don't have a headache for secrecy.
    Who would count how much Russia will lose on the need to modernize the existing air defense systems in service, because of the Pantsir lost in Libya?
    To whose account will the costs be charged? Really to Rosoboronexport?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 11 February 2021 10: 19
      +2
      The problem is different. On the one hand, the sale of sophisticated equipment such as air defense systems is the most profitable topic ..... on the other hand, solvent countries that are able to buy this equipment are not opponents of the United States and, often, under a hood with them. Either the second option is China or Korea, which will issue a copy at a time. And selling old weapons is cheap and doesn't benefit the industry. Accordingly, there is no development.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 February 2021 15: 52
      +2
      Quote: prior
      Effective managers from Rosoboronexport are no different from the managers of other offices selling something abroad.
      The main thing is "green candy wrappers", they don't have a headache for secrecy.
      Who would count how much Russia will lose on the need to modernize the existing air defense systems in service, because of the Pantsir lost in Libya?
      To whose account will the costs be charged? Really to Rosoboronexport?

      If modernization is required, then at the expense of the Ministry of Defense. Which put into service the complex developed for export without making any changes to its design.

      As I already wrote, for some reason everyone thinks that the "Pantsir" was developed for the domestic Armed Forces, and then went for export. In fact, the situation is diametrically opposite: the air defense missile system was made for the Emirates and for the money of the Emirates, and then adapted for our Armed Forces. So Oboronexport is out of business here.
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 11 February 2021 16: 17
        +1
        no, even in 2006 there was already a version of the carapace in which the radar was improved compared to those that the UAE had (there are even different missiles). and our C1 was even more refined.
        moreover, we have been doing C2 for a long time and CM is on the way.
        the electronics on them are different.
      2. prior
        prior 11 February 2021 18: 22
        0
        Here, in my opinion, there is some misunderstanding.
        If the Pantsir was developed for the Emirates and there is nothing secret, then what are we discussing here about the harm of our defenses from the loss of the Libyan model.
        The second question is that the air defense missile system was sold to Libya by Rosoboronexport, and not by the Ministry of Defense. And they have slightly different functions and interests.
        It is likely that the parameters of air defense systems supplied for export and in the Armed Forces differ, but the architecture, algorithms, and control system are largely similar, and this is the problem.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 12 February 2021 11: 54
          0
          Quote: prior
          The second question is that the air defense missile system was sold to Libya by Rosoboronexport, and not by the Ministry of Defense.

          And not the one, and not the other. ZRPK in Libya was supplied by the Emirates - to arm their fighting hamsters.
          Quote: prior
          If the Pantsir was developed for the Emirates and there is nothing secret, then what are we discussing here about the harm of our defenses from the loss of the Libyan model.

          So they are looking for the culprit - who will, if anything, answer if the domestic air defense systems are similar to the export ones.
          Many habitually blame "greedy Oboronexport dealers who sold unique Russian weapons"But the problem is that it was not the Emirates who received the export version of the Russian Armed Forces' weapons system, but the Russian Armed Forces armed themselves with" Russified "complexes developed for a foreign customer. smile
    3. Intruder
      Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 48
      -1
      To whose account will the costs be charged? Really to Rosoboronexport?
      the retirement age will once again be raised by both VAT and Usё !!! laughing
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 11 February 2021 10: 11
    +7
    It seems to me alone that "Damantsev" and "analytics" are two incompatible things? laughing
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 11 February 2021 10: 15
    -2
    I do not think that the element base will surprise the Americans, as well as thermal imaging equipment ... ... and I do not think that electronic warfare is so critical for Shell. This is the last line of defense of the ship and the electronic warfare aircraft will not reach it. And on bombs and packages it is not. Namely, these are the objectives of Pantsir on ships and when working with the S400.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 11 February 2021 10: 33
      -3
      Quote: Zaurbek
      that electronic warfare is so critical for Shell.

      On the contrary. Extremely critical. Against the radar, the REP works perfectly. This is how air defense was destroyed in the conflicts of 2020. Information about it only in fits and starts.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 11 February 2021 11: 58
        +1
        I'm talking about the fact that in the Russian Federation the Armor completes the target that broke through the "older" complexes ..... They won't let you fly and jam them.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 55
        -2
        Against the radar, the REP works perfectly. This is how air defense was destroyed in the conflicts of 2020. Info about it only in fits and starts.
        Colleague, do not strain yourself, I wrote this without sarcasm, by the way! Here half ..., you simply will not understand and will not want to understand, like why now optoelectronic complexes, they like to put so much wherever they can ... and "some" successfully believe that radar and radio command control, more the basis for everything and everyone ... (the legendary Shipunov, probably smiled now ... laughing but we no longer know his opinion ...)!
  • shinobi
    shinobi 11 February 2021 11: 00
    +4
    An entertaining version. And then the question is, why the hell are bushy, NATO signal intelligence planes are constantly trying to read the signatures of our air defense systems? In order to blind the radar or detect it, it is not necessary to steal it. The question is completely different. Will the Yankees be able to copy the complex. The fact that the Americans do not have a full-fledged short-range air defense system is not known only by a person who is very far from the question. As well as the fact that the "Pantsir" was originally created to protect its older brothers from cruise missiles and can be destroyed by an ordinary self-propelled gun (MLRS or OTRK) if they know where she is. The fact that the complex got to the Yankees was unpleasant, it was a matter of time, but wringing one's hands like the author does not matter.
  • Boris63
    Boris63 11 February 2021 11: 08
    +4
    And what prevented them from looking at the Armor from the Saudis. The same as in Libya ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 February 2021 15: 49
      +1
      Quote: Boris63
      And what prevented them from looking at the Armor from the Saudis. The same as in Libya ...

      Wasn't it the UAE?
      However, it makes no difference - and those. and others are the best friends of the USA.
  • Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil 11 February 2021 11: 45
    +2
    Gavrila was sad today,
    Gavril "Armor" about ... lost.
    Or so?
    Gavrila was very pleased
    Gavrila "Shell" studied ...
    1. mark1
      mark1 11 February 2021 20: 52
      +3
      Or so
      Gavrila knocked his forehead against the wall,
      Gavrila "Pantsir" did not understand
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 11 February 2021 11: 46
    +1
    The passage of the staff progandist VO from the MO is just a trash pearl. Falling into the hands of a potential adversary, even if the export version of the man-portable air defense missile, will not become critical for the defense capability of our country. Because (apparently there will be an explanation for why, and figs to you) because our warriors are responsible for protecting the borders (almost a quote from the first paragraphs) of our homeland, etc., etc. (so how? How or in any way or you do not care at all how?). So how does getting equipment to the enemy relate to putting responsibilities on our warriors, and how can those responsibilities prevent Tech Bill from unscrewing the carapace in Ramstein? It is funny and sad at the same time. Bed time.
    1. poquello
      poquello 11 February 2021 13: 54
      +4
      Quote: evgen1221
      The passage of the staff progandist VO from the MO is just a trash pearl. Falling into the hands of a potential adversary, even if the export version of the man-portable air defense missile, will not become critical for the defense capability of our country. Because (apparently there will be an explanation for why, and figs to you) because our warriors are responsible for protecting the borders (almost a quote from the first paragraphs) of our homeland, etc., etc. (so how? How or in any way or you do not care at all how?). So how does getting equipment to the enemy relate to putting responsibilities on our warriors, and how can those responsibilities prevent Tech Bill from unscrewing the carapace in Ramstein? It is funny and sad at the same time. Bed time.

      I really liked it, I really didn't understand anything
      1. evgen1221
        evgen1221 11 February 2021 14: 25
        -3
        Because here you need to have a mosch, but not everyone grows it.
        1. poquello
          poquello 11 February 2021 14: 41
          +3
          Quote: evgen1221
          Because here you need to have a mosch, but not everyone grows it.

          I didn't like it, but everything is clear
  • Fisherman
    Fisherman 11 February 2021 11: 52
    +3
    The Arabs gave the previously purchased Shell for research long ago. And this one is just a cover.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 11 February 2021 14: 27
      +1
      Well, as if it does not cancel the time and modifications are different of the same weapon. The armor 4 in the Second World War was also a lot different, but as it were, the armor 4 of the first version 40g is not the armor 4 45g release. Here, too.
      1. poquello
        poquello 11 February 2021 14: 43
        0
        Quote: evgen1221
        Well, as if it does not cancel the time and modifications are different of the same weapon. The armor 4 in the Second World War was also a lot different, but as it were, the armor 4 of the first version 40g is not the armor 4 45g release. Here, too.

        how is it? C1e is a 2010 model
        1. evgen1221
          evgen1221 11 February 2021 23: 42
          0
          How did it happen? Any modern high-tech model in today's world is crammed with electronics and programs - they can also change, perhaps they are of more interest than hardware?
  • Undecim
    Undecim 11 February 2021 12: 01
    +6
    The choice of the Wright-Patterson airbase as the final delivery point for the captured Pantsir-C1 was not at all accidental.
    After all, this object belongs to the well-known in the expert circles of the US Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL

    Another tub of verbal balancing act from Damantsev.
    Wright-Patterson Air Force Base is not owned by AFRL. It belongs to the Air Force.
  • bk316
    bk316 11 February 2021 12: 06
    -2
    Bullshit. Better to write about ships. No, it's true that in air defense it doesn't work that way.
    We'll have to update the software and that's it. But I'm sure the software has the export version and so on.
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 11 February 2021 12: 38
    +5
    The author is fully right. When the Chinese began to copy our S-300s, they also said nonsense, nothing will work. Now the Chinese have started selling their copies of the S-300, and they are in no hurry to buy our air defense. Or someone here thinks the Americans are stupider than the Chinese?
    1. poquello
      poquello 11 February 2021 14: 04
      +2
      Quote: steel maker
      The author is fully right. When the Chinese began to copy our S-300s, they also said nonsense, nothing will work. Now the Chinese have started selling their copies of the S-300, and they are in no hurry to buy our air defense. Or someone here thinks the Americans are stupider than the Chinese?

      the Americans also have a "copy" of the c300, the patriot is called))))))))))))))), and the Chinese sell copies of our jet engines? probably sell
      1. YuryPVO
        YuryPVO 11 February 2021 17: 22
        0
        You see, you do not distinguish between the Patriot and the C300. C300 is more progressive. And the Chinese copy everything. More than 20 years ago he taught the Chinese p300 himself. After 5 years, China has already tested an analogue. And in electronics they are already docks. Competitors i.e.
        1. poquello
          poquello 11 February 2021 17: 41
          0
          Quote: YuryPVO
          You see, you do not distinguish between the Patriot and the C300. C300 is more progressive. And the Chinese copy everything.

          and che, copy so not to distinguish? while we see their statements and something similar, IMHO everything
  • U-58
    U-58 11 February 2021 13: 02
    +1
    The story is repeated with the hijacking of the MiG-25 to Ipponia in 1976, when the "friend or foe" identification system became available to the enemies.
    I had to recycle and introduce a new one, which cost a lot of nerves and money.
  • YuryPVO
    YuryPVO 11 February 2021 13: 15
    +2
    Few people paid attention to the fact that the title of the publication emphasizes the element base of Armor. And she is just critical. 80 percent of it is imported, in particular American. All documentation for which is in the public domain. Thus, the characteristics of the nodes, frequency ranges, i.e. the speed of the blocks is determined instantly. Yes, the algorithms of work will not be revealed immediately, but by modeling all this will become known. And, accordingly, the question will arise, how did this EEE get to the Russian Federation. Accordingly, measures to prevent access to this EEE will be strengthened. And plans for the production of air defense systems will be thwarted. The question is, where is our modern element base? How much money was spent on it, but things are still there. China has bypassed us a long time ago in terms of quality and variety of military grade EEE, space and does not sell these components to us. The capture of the air defense system will still backfire on us by different parties.
    1. poquello
      poquello 11 February 2021 14: 10
      +1
      Quote: YuryPVO
      Capturing the air defense system will still backfire on different sides.

      ))))))))))))) does not bother that this model is more than 10 years old
      1. YuryPVO
        YuryPVO 11 February 2021 17: 09
        +2
        Doesn't bother. The question is that the EEE is imported. I myself am looking for a discontinued EEE for repair, tk. does not pass another VP. Yes, there were ppl / zu of our development, but they do not cover the entire EEE, and they are made mainly in Taiwan.
        1. poquello
          poquello 11 February 2021 17: 46
          -1
          Quote: YuryPVO
          Doesn't bother. The question is that the EEE is imported.

          this is yes, for the Tunguska everything was Soviet)
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. CastroRuiz
      CastroRuiz 11 February 2021 14: 38
      -1
      Bingo!
      Tak i budet.
    4. Gogia
      Gogia 12 February 2021 11: 06
      0
      Do you think that the chip markings remain on the boards? and the boards are not filled with compound for convenience? And are not soluble conductors used so that there are no tracks left after dissolution and washing off of the campound? And that there are no trap elements on the boards (especially for export versions?) I saw boards from the steering gears of air-to-air missiles. There, the designations of some of the elements were in the bird's language, some of the boards were filled with epoxy paint, and some elements were unmarked. Most likely they will be able to study the level of our designers and production of the mid-2000s. At least they studied the Greek S-300s and it doesn't help them much.
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 11 February 2021 15: 13
    -1
    and to destroy the installation with the help of DRG is not enough? Or does the GRU not catch mice at all?
    1. Gogia
      Gogia 12 February 2021 11: 01
      -1
      For such an occasion, one could not spare a volley of calibers. pieces that way 8-16
  • Basalt
    Basalt 11 February 2021 15: 23
    0
    Stupidity is complete. The shells have been supplied to the state allies, the Saudis, since 2005. There were plenty of opportunities to study. Similar and in many other countries are supplied, where the same companies often have good relations with the government and opportunities for study are available. Any exported weaponry implies the possibility of falling into the hands of specialists from competing countries.
  • Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 11 February 2021 15: 31
    0
    When the MiG-25 was hijacked, this business ended with the adoption of the MiG-31
    There will be something similar.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 11 February 2021 20: 59
      -1
      When the MiG-25 was hijacked, this business ended with the adoption of the MiG-31
      There will be something similar.
      hmm, I'll have to repeat , put laser installations on the following: "Pantsir-3SM", if this is how things go with an eye to the future !? wink
  • Maksim_ok
    Maksim_ok 11 February 2021 16: 31
    +2
    so they will be surprised to see what element base it is built on.
    1. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 11 February 2021 22: 11
      +1
      Quote: Maksim_ok
      so they will be surprised to see what element base it is built on.

      And how surprised they were at the lamps on the MiG-25. But on reflection, we came to the conclusion that everything was done correctly, and lamps in conditions of increased radiation will be more reliable than transistors.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 11 February 2021 19: 30
    0
    Quote: RealPilot
    We are still waiting for surprises with the export S-400! This is where problems can start ...


    Why can't you install something like a self-destruction system launched via satellite into export equipment?
    Well, a "sleeping virus" in software for example. In such a situation, when equipment hits the enemy, the virus can be activated, and it will erase all the software, and in the best case scenario, it will also burn out the components ...
    1. Gogia
      Gogia 12 February 2021 10: 59
      0
      And who said that there is no such system?
  • MrFox
    MrFox 11 February 2021 20: 09
    -1
    impossibility of full withdrawal of the source code of the "Pantsir-S1E" weapons control system

    What is this optimistic statement based on?
    1. Gogia
      Gogia 12 February 2021 10: 57
      0
      Likely
      Quote: MrFox
      What is this optimistic statement based on?
      on the analysis of damage to the captured shell and on the system preventing access. (well, there is a password at the entrance and sms to the phone :))))
      1. MrFox
        MrFox 12 February 2021 19: 22
        0
        The password is apparently 1234 and whose phone is even scary to imagine
  • mpr200
    mpr200 11 February 2021 21: 15
    0
    It cannot be that the possibility of export products falling into the hands of the enemy was not foreseen. And not only by the presence of a "self-liquidator"))), but also most likely by such differences in design and software that will not allow the enemy who seized the complex to use his acquisition to study the weapons in the arsenal of the manufacturing country.
  • viktor_47
    viktor_47 11 February 2021 21: 17
    0
    You can only sell what is specially designed and made for sale. Even by other people. And so, we will constantly run into infringement of our defenses.
  • AC130 Ganship
    AC130 Ganship 11 February 2021 21: 51
    -2
    Russian intelligence is working. Theirs too. At one time, pieces of F117, F111, F4, and many missiles fell into the hands of the USSR. Let's not forget about the Tu-4 and so on.
    1. Gogia
      Gogia 12 February 2021 10: 59
      0
      Something in the collection of not a single Abrams and not even a single F16 whole. And their squadrons flew MiG-29 and Su-27 and tanks and S-300 from Ruins and Pantsir now. We have to do something with this for a long time.
  • da Vinci
    da Vinci 11 February 2021 22: 12
    -1
    "All these factors must be taken into account (with appropriate processing and / or reprogramming of the units) by the specialists of the Tula KBP in the course of further serial production of the later version of the" Pantsir-S1M "complex. What to sell to whom?
  • allegro365
    allegro365 12 February 2021 06: 44
    -1
    For the sake of money, they sell their homeland and weapons. What if, during the Second World War, Katyusha was sold? Definitely shot. And now they are no longer being tried for treason, but if there is also a commercial secret in it, it is more respected.
  • Ugochaves
    Ugochaves 12 February 2021 07: 08
    0
    Quote: prior
    The second question is that the air defense missile system was sold to Libya by Rosoboronexport

    It was received by Libya from the Saudis.
  • Alexander P
    Alexander P 12 February 2021 09: 43
    -1
    The case of the fascist Gorbachev continues in the Russian Federation and in the world. This is betrayal, in the form of going over to the side of the enemy. The Vlasovites, they are also Vlasovites in Libya.
  • Gogia
    Gogia 12 February 2021 10: 55
    0
    It will take the Amers much more time to restore and study the Pantsir-S1E than to modernize the OES (where you can change the matrix to a more sensitive one or use new light filters, etc.) Afar needs to be changed, and there the noise immunity and reliability are higher and the signal processing algorithms are completely different, ie the new generation can be used, while the old ones can be supplied to the allies for a long time or sent for modernization.
  • Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich
    Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich 12 February 2021 11: 19
    0
    Quote: Gogia
    And who said that there is no such system?


    The whole point of the article and the author's fears indicate request
  • Moskal 55
    Moskal 55 12 February 2021 11: 40
    +2
    What they will definitely see there is American-designed microcircuits, but not military, but industrial (and maybe there are commercial ones somewhere), but they know about this, and so do we ...
    1. YuryPVO
      YuryPVO 12 February 2021 13: 23
      0
      You are right, I saw the industry in blocks myself. And I even saw commercial ones with huge radiators.
  • yaelxninsh
    yaelxninsh 12 February 2021 12: 03
    0
    Why was it given to them and where is the self-destruction system.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 12 February 2021 12: 39
    0
    How many clever words! Just like a vutka, only he doesn't eat a pipe! What happened? Does the "Tula KB" have a problem with the government order? What is this panic screeching? When the Shell was sold to third countries, it was a matter of several weeks for the Americans to cut it for cutting. Everyone understood this. And who sold and who bought, and especially those who authorized the sale. Why on earth were the screams now? The article makes a strange and frankly repulsive impression ...
    1. VasYok
      VasYok 12 February 2021 14: 56
      0
      So we and SU57 were going to sell to Algeria, Vietnam, Myanmar ... And Armata. There is nothing special in this and cannot be. This is the norm for the US colony.
  • svoit
    svoit 12 February 2021 13: 20
    +1
    Quote: rotmistr60
    The author, you think that these factors are not taken into account in the armaments (including air defense systems) being exported. The possibility of air defense systems falling into the hands of a potential enemy was taken into account by the developers (read and programmers)

    Not in all systems, it happens that the export version, especially in the 90s, differs from ours by a simple translation into English, ED, software.
  • VasYok
    VasYok 12 February 2021 14: 43
    -1
    Americans are great! They know their stuff well. They study the enemy up and down.
    And the Russian boobies. Everyone is hoping for some kind of vigorous loaf, which NOBODY will NEVER use.
  • George Koval
    George Koval 12 February 2021 14: 48
    +2
    Nefig abroad to send our advanced technology. This is understandable to a fool!
  • alexey alexeyev_2
    alexey alexeyev_2 12 February 2021 15: 03
    -1
    Well, everything was gone ... And what prevented the amers from looking inside the shell while he was in service with the UAE. The Arabs would not have refused them. How many years have passed. The current generation of shells with them and do not stand next to them .. So the author does not fuss under the client. Do not be frightened yourself and do not direct horror at the people
  • wow
    wow 12 February 2021 15: 37
    +2
    In general, it is necessary to sell less military equipment to various "Honduras" who immediately resell it to our potential "partners".
  • Devil13
    Devil13 12 February 2021 18: 47
    -2
    captured the weakest complex.
    Maybe at least now he will get radar standards with afar, and missiles with normal guidance, and not "walking"
  • lelik613
    lelik613 12 February 2021 18: 49
    0
    Despite the obvious problem there is a legitimate reason to send this very "government" to headquarters to Dukhonin.
  • Parvis rasulov
    Parvis rasulov 12 February 2021 19: 48
    0
    The author of the article is right, here many may not know, but in 1992 or 1993, two ZRAK Tunguska complexes were exported to the United States, and after its removal and study in the United States and NATO countries, work on anti-aircraft missile artillery installations and work on bio-caliber missiles immediately intensified. Finally, this operation also became the reason for active work in Russia to replace the Tunguska and it also became the reason for the replacement of all systems for recognizing one's own stranger in the Aerospace Forces and Air Defense
  • 75 Sergey
    75 Sergey 13 February 2021 11: 07
    -1
    The article is ordered, an attempt to form an opinion about the urgent need to develop new weapons, to be drawn into the arms race.