Military Review

Maria Zakharova: The Hague court turned a blind eye to Kiev's guilt in the death of MH17

167

Ukraine did not close the airspace in the area of ​​the armed conflict in Donbass, which ultimately led to the death of a passenger plane, but the Netherlands will not prosecute it. This means that the Hague court turned a blind eye to Kiev's guilt in the death of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.


This was stated by the official representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation Maria Zakharova. This statement was published on the official website of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

Her words were in response to the statement of the Dutch authorities that they do not see sufficient grounds for accusing Ukraine of not closing the airspace over the war zone in Donbass.

On the basis of a virtually empty multi-page report of a "purely independent" expert group, the official Hague came to the conclusion that there are no convincing grounds for bringing Kiev to justice. The Ukrainian authorities allegedly did not realize that there was a threat to civil aviation at that time period.

- Maria Zakharova expressed her indignation at the decision of The Hague.

She does not understand why in the course of the investigation they did not take into account the numerous statements of the Armed Forces of Ukraine that the militia had air defense equipment.

And the Dutch side also does not take into account the presence of weapons of destruction at the APU in the zone of striking the aircraft.

A Malaysia Airlines passenger Boeing operated flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 2014, 17. Flying over Donbass, he was shot down. All 298 people on board were killed.


The Russian side has evidence that the missile that shot down the airliner belongs to the Ukrainian military and was fired from the territory controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but the investigation ignored this data.
Photos used:
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, https://ru.wikipedia.org/ Ministry of Defense of the Netherlands
167 comments
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  1. Orange bigg
    Orange bigg 9 February 2021 15: 45
    +17
    ... Maria Zakharova: The Hague court turned a blind eye to Kiev's guilt in the death of MH17

    Long live the Hague court! The most "incorruptible" court in the world. Hooray!!!
    Sarcasm. If anyone did not understand.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 9 February 2021 15: 48
      -45%
      Quote: OrangeBigg
      ... Maria Zakharova: The Hague court turned a blind eye to Kiev's guilt in the death of MH17

      Long live the Hague court! The most "incorruptible" court in the world. Hooray!!!
      Sarcasm. If anyone did not understand.

      The most humane and incorruptible with us ... and then the Hague ..
      1. Orange bigg
        Orange bigg 9 February 2021 15: 49
        +28
        Where do you have it? In the country of the evil clown-dictator ZE? I sympathize.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 16: 07
          -8
          Quote: OrangeBigg
          Where do you have it?

          The other day, a deaf and dumb man was fined for participating in a rally, shouting slogans. laughing Peskov commented on this with advice to appeal. wassat
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 February 2021 16: 17
            -12%
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Quote: OrangeBigg
            Where do you have it?

            The other day, a deaf and dumb man was fined for participating in a rally, shouting slogans. laughing Peskov commented on this with advice to appeal. wassat

            We have a percentage of acquittals 0,36.. So it's a pity for the deaf-mute .. they are bribed .. or a fine ..
            For comparison, the percentage of acquittals under Stalin "bloody" 40%
            1. loki565
              loki565 9 February 2021 16: 35
              +13
              In the stronghold of US democracy, 0.5 is not far, plus the death penalty.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 9 February 2021 16: 36
                -17%
                Quote: loki565
                In the stronghold of US democracy, 0.5 is not far, plus the death penalty.

                The stronghold of democracy is the most repressive state in the world, considering how many inmates there are .. and our democrats are following in their footsteps .. But even in the USA the percentage is higher .. What does this mean?
                1. loki565
                  loki565 9 February 2021 16: 39
                  +16
                  That there is a "deal with the investigation" put on stream)))
                  1. Vladimir Mashkov
                    Vladimir Mashkov 9 February 2021 17: 17
                    +12
                    Zakharova is ABSOLUTELY right: if Ukraine closed the airspace over the belligerent Donbass, there would be NOTHING, and the plane and passengers would be safe. But Ukraine needed NOT this, but the downed plane!
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
              2. paco.soto
                paco.soto 9 February 2021 23: 07
                0
                loki565
                Today, 16: 35

                +8

                In the stronghold of US democracy, 0.5 is not far, plus the death penalty.
                Reply © ©

                Neutral opinion: immediately googled "ya there is a meticulous old man" comments not so much to you as to the forum - to be in the subject. Link from the legal forum to the most easily digestible materials by% of acquittals in world jurisprudence in Russian:
                https://englishunlimited.ru/blog/procent-opravdatelnyh-prigovorov-v-ssha.html
                PS If anyone is interested, I can comment on the legal proceedings in Europe, as for a very long time already a resident-recidivist in Europe.
            2. orionvitt
              orionvitt 9 February 2021 19: 11
              +5
              Quote: Svarog
              Our acquittal rate is 0,36

              It's just that in Russia, if the case does not go well, then it does not reach the court. But if you go to court, be sure that in 95% of cases, with the evidence base, everything is in order. Well, of course, a lot also depends on the case itself, the defendant, the judge and public resonance. But these are isolated cases.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 19: 27
                -2
                Quote: orionvitt
                It's just that in Russia, if the case does not go well, then it does not reach the court.

                Ha ha ha! Not glued? Have you ever tried to find the truth in court according to traffic police reports? When all doubts in court are interpreted not in favor of the accused, but against him? Did not know? wink
                1. orionvitt
                  orionvitt 9 February 2021 19: 31
                  +7
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Did not know?

                  Do you always have the courage to admit your guilt? Of course, no one ever violates anything, all fines are illegal, and only innocent people are imprisoned. This is if you listen not to the court, but to the other side.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 19: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: orionvitt

                    Do you always have the courage to admit your guilt?

                    Should I? In our country, according to the law, guilt must be proven, this is an axiom. This is written in the law, as well as what is evidence.
                    Once again - we live by the law, or what?
                    And yet - based on your theses, Chubais should have been in prison for a long time, because the whole country knows that he is a thief and a traitor. wink
                    1. orionvitt
                      orionvitt 9 February 2021 19: 51
                      +3
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      In our country, according to the law, guilt must be proven, this is an axiom.

                      It is the court that proves guilt, and not the opinion of the defendants, investigators, or outsiders. This is if according to the law. As for Chubais, then of course everyone knows that his snout is in the fluff, but there has not been a trial for his deeds yet. So officially, he is clean before the law. I hope that someday, the truth will prevail. If the case goes to court, then no doubt they will go to jail.
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 20: 00
                        0
                        Quote: orionvitt
                        It is the court that proves guilt, and not the opinion of the defendants, investigators, or outsiders. This is if by law

                        The court does not prove, it evaluates the evidence presented by the prosecution. In the Criminal Procedure Code, this is all chewed up point by point. Including it says that if the protocol was drawn up in violation, then it must be excluded from the evidence. The same goes for reports. Lying by police officers is a flagrant violation of the law, and of course the protocol cannot be adopted by the court. The court had no other evidence.
                        Quote: orionvitt
                        but there was no trial for his affairs yet.

                        Because Vladimir Vladimirovich clearly said that he considers Chubais an effective manager.
                      2. orionvitt
                        orionvitt 9 February 2021 20: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        The court does not prove

                        Okay, not that way. It does not prove, but determines the degree of guilt. That's better? This does not change the essence.
              2. skif8013
                skif8013 10 February 2021 08: 16
                +3
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Quote: orionvitt
                It's just that in Russia, if the case does not go well, then it does not reach the court.

                Ha ha ha! Not glued? Have you ever tried to find the truth in court according to traffic police reports? When all doubts in court are interpreted not in favor of the accused, but against him? Did not know? wink

                Sued and believe me it was successful!
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 09: 12
                  0
                  Quote: skif8013
                  Sued and believe me it was successful!

                  Winning a traffic police case in court is an exception, not a pattern. Lost twice, and in both cases the traffic cops lied.
                  1. skif8013
                    skif8013 11 February 2021 07: 15
                    +1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Quote: skif8013
                    Sued and believe me it was successful!

                    Winning a traffic police case in court is an exception, not a pattern. Lost twice, and in both cases the traffic cops lied.

                    Well, at my trial, they also lied, but how nice it was to do them)
              3. hohkn
                hohkn 10 February 2021 11: 40
                +2
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Have you ever tried to find the truth in court according to traffic police reports?

                I found it. And even the traffic cops admitted that they were wrong. The situation there was controversial, but nevertheless ...
                1. three
                  three 10 February 2021 12: 33
                  +2
                  I support, you just need to "learn the materiel" better (though not everyone is given it without irony, seriously).
              4. three
                three 10 February 2021 12: 32
                +2
                I can send TWO exculpatory ones (one - drunk driving, the other - refusal of medical examination (he was also screwy)). So much for ha-ha, Vasily.
        2. Dart2027
          Dart2027 9 February 2021 16: 23
          +12
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The other day, a deaf and dumb man was fined for participating in a rally, shouting slogans.

          The protocol did say about slogans, apparently he just stood in the crowd of shouting and the police made a mistake on the spot, but the court fined him for “road closures at an unauthorized protest»
          That is, it is quite reasonable.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 17: 30
            -1
            He actually lives there nearby, and went to the store. This registration confirms. And the lie of employees should be interpreted by the court in favor of innocence. This is by law. And the fact that everyone was seized is already a fact.
            1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
              Sidor Amenpodestovich 9 February 2021 17: 44
              0
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              He actually lives there nearby, and went to the store. This registration confirms.

              What does the registration confirm? That he was going to the store? Or did he swear to mother-in-law?
              Do you think that he is telling the truth only because you like it better? And since he is deaf, then in no case could he participate in an unauthorized action?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 18: 14
                -1
                Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                You think that he is telling the truth only because you like it better.

                I believe that he is telling the truth because the opposite has not been proven. After all, this is the wording of the presumption of innocence in the Constitution? wink
                Ministry of Internal Affairs officers were convicted of lying, and in writing.
                What laws do you want to live by? By the written, or by those where the one who has more rights is right?
                Yesterday a deputy of the Saratov Regional Duma was fined for participation in the rally, although the only evidence was the police report. In addition, an attempt to seize the building of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is imputed, although the video clearly shows that everything is different.
                At the same time, there is a video of the presence of State Duma deputy Milonava directly at a rally in Moscow, and nothing.
                The only thing that the authorities will receive as a result of this approach is the growth of discontent and rebellion.
                1. KAV
                  KAV 9 February 2021 18: 22
                  +1
                  Yesterday a deputy of the Saratov Regional Duma was fined for participation in the rally, although the only evidence was the police report. In addition, an attempt to seize the building of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is imputed, although the video clearly shows that everything is different.
                  This Bondarenko should have been allowed to follow Navalny for a long time. The same hypozhor - the whole TikTok is hammered with it. Instead of carrying out his direct duties, he is engaged in "investigations", scandals, growing hatred of the authorities, and shaking the situation. In fact, this is bulk 2.0, the same provocateur, and even the deputy's salary, I suppose, is not shy.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 19: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: KAV
                    Instead of performing your direct duties

                    Are you familiar with the list of duties of a deputy? It seems not, otherwise the stamps would not be thrown around.
                    And he does not receive a salary, unlike the deputies of the United Russia, google the topic.
                2. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  Sidor Amenpodestovich 9 February 2021 18: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  I believe that he is telling the truth, because the opposite has not been proven.

                  What should be the evidence to the contrary? Video footage of his march in the crowd of protesters?
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 19: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                    Video footage of his march in the crowd of protesters?

                    Including. But not the false reports of the Interior Ministry officers. CPC to help you.
                    1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                      Sidor Amenpodestovich 9 February 2021 19: 16
                      +2
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Including. But not the false reports of the Interior Ministry officers.

                      Why do you so furiously disbelieve the police officers? Have you had problems with the law? Have you been sitting?
                    2. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 19: 22
                      +1
                      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                      Why do you so furiously disbelieve the police officers

                      Because the report is a lie. This is an objective fact.
                      And I did not sit.
                    3. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 9 February 2021 20: 22
                      +4
                      Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                      Why do you so furiously disbelieve the police officers?

                      Because all kinds of fighters for a "bright future" always hate the police with fierce hatred, because it is the police who are at the forefront of the fight against them.
              2. hohkn
                hohkn 10 February 2021 13: 45
                +1
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                I believe that he is telling the truth because the opposite has not been proven. After all, this is the wording of the presumption of innocence in the Constitution?

                When will you start to study materiel before you blurt out something?
                "The Constitution of the Russian Federation" (adopted by popular vote on 12.12.1993 with amendments approved during the nationwide vote on 01.07.2020)
                Article 49

                1. Each accused of a crime shall be considered innocent until his guilt is proved in the manner prescribed by federal law and established by a court verdict that has entered into legal force.
                2. Accused is not obliged to prove his innocence.
                3. Irremovable doubts about the guilt of a person shall be interpreted in favor of the accused.

                Doesn't the highlighted mean anything?
                A person can be accused only in criminal cases, and not in administrative ones.
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Ministry of Internal Affairs officers were convicted of lying, and in writing.

                Where, in your fantasies?
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 14: 37
                  0
                  Quote: hohkn
                  A person can be accused only in criminal cases, and not in administrative

                  Lost in three pines? The accused is both there and there.
                  Quote: hohkn
                  Where, in your fantasies?

                  Well, if the detention protocol is my fantasy, then yes. good
                  1. hohkn
                    hohkn 10 February 2021 14: 50
                    +2
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Lost in three pines? The accused is both there and there.

                    Will you quote? recourse
                    And here I will quote:
                    Administrative Code of the Russian Federation Chapter 25. PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROCEEDINGS
                    ABOUT ADMINISTRATIVE OFFENSES,
                    THEIR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS

                    Article 25.1. The person in respect of which the proceedings are conducted in the case of an administrative offense
                    Article 25.2. Victim
                    Article 25.3. Legal representatives of an individual
                    Article 25.4. Legal representatives of a legal entity
                    Article 25.5. Defender and Representative
                    Article 25.5.1. Commissioner under the President of the Russian Federation for the Protection of the Rights of Entrepreneurs
                    Article 25.6. Witness
                    Article 25.7. Understood
                    Article 25.8. Specialist
                    Article 25.9. Expert
                    Article 25.10. Translator
                    Article 25.11. Prosecutor
                    Article 25.12. Circumstances precluding the possibility of participation in the proceedings on the case of an administrative offense
                    Article 25.13. Challenge of persons whose participation in proceedings on a case on an administrative offense is not allowed
                    Article 25.14. Reimbursement of expenses to the victim, his legal representatives, witness, specialist, expert, translator and witness
                    Article 25.15. Notification of persons participating in proceedings on a case on an administrative offense

                    And where is the "accused" here? Poke your finger.
                    So it looks like you got lost in those very pines. Turn on the navigator already, but go out to the people ... On the map, I feel you cannot do this.
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Well, if the detention protocol is my fantasy, then yes.

                    And are there any proofs? Or at least a scan (photo)?
                    You shouldn't refer to the text of Telegram. There the foreign agent will write something else ...
                  2. rruvim
                    rruvim 10 February 2021 15: 09
                    +2
                    I was detained in Kaliningrad for "drinking" alcoholic beverages on the street. When the cop's car approached, I threw a can of beer into the trash can. Refused to sign the protocol. They pushed me into a paddy wagon, took me to the police station and asked me to gather a crowd under paragraphs 25.2 to 25.15. Part of the crowd, they say, will take over, and video from street cameras in addition. The idiot understands that for a can of beer I had to organize a whole action, especially since I am a resident of the Moscow region. I had to sign the protocol. We parted as friends. I mean, the procedural code is so confusing (albeit based on Roman law), as if it was created especially for ev --- in - lawyers, so that they would have a job. And international law as well.
                  3. hohkn
                    hohkn 11 February 2021 10: 40
                    0
                    Quote: rruvim
                    I mean the procedural code is so confusing

                    I did not quote the procedural code. This is the Code of Administrative Offenses.
                2. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 16: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: hohkn
                  Turn on the navigator already, but go out to people.

                  Administrative Code of the Russian Federation Article 1.5. Presumption of innocence. Regardless of the wording of the name.
                3. rruvim
                  rruvim 10 February 2021 16: 17
                  0
                  Exactly. To the question: "What did you drink?" The answer was: "Nothing, for there was no one around. The plural is not appropriate!" Into the paddy wagon and forward. We will find witnesses and footage from DVRs. In the meantime, sit in the corridor for about ten hours. This is what has been happening around MN-17 for several years now. No one can find witnesses and footage of street surveillance, but there is Zakharova, who claims that the Outskirts should have introduced a no-fly zone on their territory. What the fuck?
                4. hohkn
                  hohkn 11 February 2021 10: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Administrative Code of the Russian Federation Article 1.5. Presumption of innocence. Regardless of the wording of the name.

                  Have you decided to jump off? You have argued that this is proclaimed in the Constitution of the Russian Federation. But I just did not assert that the presumption of innocence does not exist in the Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation.
                  Only, as far as I understand, there is complete order with the evidence. I repeat once again that Agafonov
                  Quote: hohkn
                  Punished in accordance with Art. 20.2 h. 6.1. Administrative Code of the Russian Federation "Violation of the established procedure for holding a rally, which interfered with the movement of pedestrians or vehicles." In fact, this is presented if the protesters blocked the road (as it was).

                  So again past the checkout.
                  I gave a proof for the administrative case above.
                5. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 11 February 2021 12: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: hohkn
                  Have you decided to jump off? You have argued that this is proclaimed in the Constitution of the Russian Federation. But I just did not assert that the presumptions

                  Are you the enemy or what? wink
                  What funny people you are, every time you cling to words, wording, and every time you ignore the essence. laughing
                  A simple question - is the accused, the person against whom the proceedings is being conducted, guaranteed by law the presumption of innocence?
                  Yes or no? Without verbiage?
                6. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 11 February 2021 13: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  What funny people you are, every time you cling to words, wording, and every time you ignore the essence

                  That is, the fact that you were given no questions.
                7. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 11 February 2021 13: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  That is, the fact that you were given no questions.

                  The question is not for you, I already understood the level of capabilities of your processor. And the upgrade will not help in your case! laughing
                8. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 11 February 2021 15: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  The question is not for you, I already understood the level of capabilities of your processor.

                  That is, the facts cited are not refuted.
            2. hohkn
              hohkn 11 February 2021 16: 50
              0
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              What funny people you are, every time you cling to words, wording, and every time you ignore the essence.

              Am I ignoring the point?
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              I believe that he is telling the truth because the opposite has not been proven. After all, this is the wording of the presumption of innocence in the Constitution?

              Or are these not your words, to which I answered you?
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Is the accused, the person against whom the proceedings is being conducted, guaranteed by law the presumption of innocence?
              Yes or no?

              Guaranteed. But you, apparently, pay attention only to what you want. You "in good faith" ignored my question, because it is inconvenient for you:
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Well, if the detention protocol is my fantasy, then yes.

              Quote: hohkn
              And are there any proofs? Or at least a scan (photo)?

              Do you have evidence that Agafonov's right to the presumption of innocence was violated?
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Because the report is a lie. This is an objective fact.

              You also saw the report, or do you approve from the words of the foreign agent?
            3. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 11 February 2021 17: 06
              0
              Quote: hohkn
              Or are these not your words, to which I answered you?

              This is both spelled out in the Constitution and duplicated in the Administrative Code. Is not it?
              Quote: hohkn
              Do you have evidence that Agafonov's right to the presumption of innocence was violated?

              Yes, and the most important thing is that the Ministry of Internal Affairs does not deny this, saying that the employees were mistaken. This already excludes the protocol and reports from the evidence. And given that this is the only evidence, it makes Agafonov innocent. But the judge still solders the fine.
              Do you know that if you watch TV for a long time, people appear everywhere? wink
            4. hohkn
              hohkn 12 February 2021 11: 09
              0
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              This is both spelled out in the Constitution and duplicated in the Administrative Code. Is not it?

              The Constitution of the Russian Federation spelled out what I quoted to you. So please, flies separately, cutlets todelno.
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              This already excludes the protocol and the reports from the evidence. And given that this is the only evidence, it makes Agafonov innocent.

              And do you have proofs, or is it all "blah blah blah"?
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Do you know that if you watch TV for a long time, people appear everywhere?

              Where did the information come from, I wrote above. And I'm tired of educating you. Take the textbook and study for yourself.
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 9 February 2021 17: 55
    +5
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    He actually lives there nearby, and went to the store.

    And "accidentally" climbed through the crowd of inadequate.
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    And the lie of employees should be interpreted by the court in favor of innocence. This is by law.

    What a Lie? He was fined for
    Quote: Dart2027
    "Road blocking at an unauthorized protest action"
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 18: 16
      -2
      Quote: Dart2027
      What a Lie? He was fined for

      All of you are God's dew! good Lies in police reports.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 9 February 2021 20: 23
        +2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        All of you are God's dew!

        That you are self-critical.
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        in police reports

        It is indicated that he was one of the protesters, which is no longer a lie.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 20: 24
          0
          One of the protesters, and shouted slogans. laughing Words can not be erased from a song. wink
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 9 February 2021 20: 38
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            One of the protesters, and shouted slogans

            AND? If he was among a group of yells and was gesturing, then the policeman's initial mistake is likely.
            That's just
            Quote: Dart2027
            the court fined him for "blocking roads at an unauthorized protest action"
            And you really can't erase a word from a song.
          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 20: 47
            0
            Quote: Dart2027
            and gestured

            Have you ever seen how deaf and dumb people communicate?
          3. Dart2027
            Dart2027 9 February 2021 21: 29
            +3
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Have you ever seen how deaf and dumb people communicate?

            AND? The police officer who conducts the arrest of people violating public order should ask which of them is deaf and who is dumb?
            Quote: Dart2027
            the court fined him for "blocking roads at an unauthorized protest action"
            And nothing prevented him from doing this.
          4. sheet
            sheet 10 February 2021 11: 58
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Have you ever seen how deaf and dumb people communicate?

            I even know and can, I have a deaf-mute cousin. Gestures and plus they speak with their mouths without sound everything that they say with gestures.
  • rruvim
    rruvim 10 February 2021 16: 29
    0
    Igor. Do we know you from the Iraqi site? It was like drinking beer together ...
  • loki565
    loki565 9 February 2021 16: 26
    +15
    The other day, a deaf and dumb man was fined for participating in a rally, shouting slogans.
    well, yes, yes, only a fine for blocking roads, but as usual, everyone goes along the road for bread)))
  • hohkn
    hohkn 10 February 2021 11: 36
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The other day a fine was awarded deaf-mute, for participating in the rally, shouting slogans.

    Have you tried to first understand the problem, and only then speak out?
    On February 5, the Krasnoselsky District Court of St. Petersburg fined a disabled person of the III group by hearing five thousand rubles for "violating the established procedure for organizing or holding a meeting, meeting, demonstration, procession or picketing."

    The third degree is complete deafness in one ear and at least a little problem with the other.
    This is not a "deaf-mute", it is a partial hearing loss. Partial. Hearing.
    Those who do not hear at all - even with an apparatus - will be given at least a second group.
    That is, once again - already at the stage of writing the text, the "conscientious" media make a conscious trust of the situation, without which everything will not look "right" - the hearing impaired is called deaf and dumb.
    Punished in accordance with Art. 20.2 h. 6.1. Code of Administrative Offenses of the Russian Federation "" Violation of the established procedure for holding a rally, which interfered with the movement of pedestrians or vehicles. " In fact, this is presented if the protesters blocked the road (as it was). About the fact that "right now they wrote, what a chanting of slogans, ayay what insanity", writes only one source - the American telegram channel "Apology of Protest" (this is a part of "Agora", funded by grants from the US, foreign agent). It is there that the phrase appears "In the protocol, the police indicated that Agafonov" together with other participants in the public event chanted slogans, "despite the fact that he was unable to speak." - but there is no protocol. Or was it given to the citizens of the United States to read it personally, and hidden from the rest, or someone thought of something to make it "better shot"?
    Ссылка на административное дело: https://ksl--spb.sudrf.ru/modules.php?name=sud_delo&srv_num=1&name_op=case&case_id=473082043&case_uid=af86250a-63f6-4362-9982-aab879d34973&delo_id=1500001
    Agafonov lives with his wife, who is also deaf. A fine of 5 thousand for them is a large amount, since they have to set aside almost all the funds received from benefits and pensions to pay off the mortgage, says the lawyer.

    A person works, a spouse too, they have their own apartment, there are benefits for communal services, there are benefits and pensions, and the savings were enough for the first payment on a mortgage in St. Petersburg. Not a luxury, but not poverty at all, not chicken skins for 47 rubles.
  • Rokot
    Rokot 10 February 2021 22: 29
    +1
    Enough bzdet into a puddle, that type was not deaf and dumb, but verbal hearing, can you understand the difference? Not for slogans, but for blocking the road
  • NEOZ
    NEOZ 9 February 2021 16: 53
    +6
    Quote: Svarog
    The most humane and incorruptible with us ... and then the Hague ..

    an adherent of bulk?
    can you confirm your words with facts? Or is it trolling again?
  • Hagen
    Hagen 9 February 2021 21: 22
    +4
    Quote: Svarog
    The most humane and incorruptible with us ... and then the Hague ..

    When a person spews out unsubstantiated accusations against his own country for any reason, it means that "Bulk 2.0" is growing in him.
  • Evdokim
    Evdokim 9 February 2021 15: 53
    +13
    Quote: OrangeBigg

    Long live the Hague court! The most "incorruptible" court in the world. Hooray!!!

    This is not sarcasm. This is the truth of the present world.
    The Hague Court is happy! The hagiest court! Who will pull any owl you want on any globe you want!
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 9 February 2021 15: 56
      +20
      This is not a court, this is a trial, where they decided everything for themselves back in 14 and the guilty ones were already appointed.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 9 February 2021 17: 18
      +9
      Quote: Evdokim
      The hagiest court!

      So these judges would be offered then, in 2014, a simple thing: FLY over that zone YOURSELF, since it is "not dangerous".

      After all, not a single cnidah would agree under any sauce (if they were told what to fly over).

      Hypocrites and murderers.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 9 February 2021 15: 59
    +5
    Quote: OrangeBigg
    Sarcasm. If anyone did not understand.

    And what is there to understand, it is clear without sarcasm that the order of the overlord must be carried out implicitly.
  • loki565
    loki565 9 February 2021 16: 29
    +9
    The Ukrainian authorities allegedly did not realize that there was a threat to civil aviation at that time.

    Yeah, having lost half of their aviation, the Ukrainian authorities never realized the threat, well, everything is logical)))
  • The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 9 February 2021 15: 51
    -28%
    Zakharova would not have to apologize again. Too loud and ambiguous statement.
    1. sleeve
      sleeve 9 February 2021 15: 59
      +9
      Yes, it looks like no, you won't have to. For now, anyway.
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 9 February 2021 16: 33
        -20%
        I see Mary's fans came running ... Or mine)))
        1. sleeve
          sleeve 9 February 2021 16: 41
          +7
          Are you a sexy girl with good intelligence, or maybe you voice the official position of the official authorities? In the first case I am your fan, in the second I will listen ... Well, confess, which of the options is in action?
          1. Leon68
            Leon68 10 February 2021 06: 34
            +1
            Quote: sleeve
            Are you a sexy girl with good intelligence, or maybe you voice the official position of the official authorities? In the first case I am your fan, in the second I will listen ... Well, confess, which of the options is in action?

            good
    2. Crimean partisan 1974
      Crimean partisan 1974 9 February 2021 23: 09
      0
      Zakharova would not have to apologize again. Too loud and ambiguous statement ...... well, she won't have to apologize, do you know the rule of law of the Russian Federation is ...... and you have to wriggle out ..... well, what's with the Boeing, according to your version ... and what is there with the carcass knocked down in 2001 ...
      1. sleeve
        sleeve 10 February 2021 07: 32
        +2
        It would be good if these "ambiguous" statements would not become a temporary trend. Will the policy change or not? Or, as before, groveling "how will they evaluate?" After all, "disrespect" has become the simplest word to describe the behavior of Western diplomacy. They seem to work not in the state, but "on the territory." And here we go to the polls, we write something to the constitution, we rally for housing and communal services and for salaries - all White noise. Savages are not reasonable. It doesn't fit into the gate anymore.
  • Bare
    Bare 9 February 2021 16: 00
    +4
    In the first video where the speaker of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, when asked whether there were other planes in the MH17 crash zone, with an answer slowed down a little for a split second and it was clear that the speaker was lying and not everything was so clean in the death of a civilian plane.
    1. Avior
      Avior 9 February 2021 17: 04
      -4
      There were no other aircraft, except for two civilian aircraft, which was announced at a press conference of the Russian Ministry of Defense on September 26, 2016. See at 8.30.
  • kventinasd
    kventinasd 9 February 2021 16: 09
    +8
    The Russian side has evidence that the missile that shot down the airliner belongs to the Ukrainian military and was fired from the territory controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but the investigation ignored this data.

    It is high time for Russia to ignore the misunderstandings in the form of all kinds of Hague and other pro-American courts.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 9 February 2021 16: 20
    +4
    Quote: OrangeBigg
    Where do you have it? In the country of the evil clown-dictator ZE? I sympathize.

    Never mind. His job is to throw it on the fan (and incite it slowly). Until he fulfills the daily norm, he will not calm down.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 9 February 2021 17: 03
      0
      Quote: Tagan
      (and incite on the sly).

      you have a typical American practice:
      1.create conditions
      2.wait for the reaction
      3. shout that they are offended!
      ps
      is it not incitement to slander us in court?
  • Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 9 February 2021 16: 22
    +6
    The Ukrainian authorities allegedly did not realize that there was a threat to civil aviation at that time.
    The opinion of the Hague / 404s is not interesting at all - the parties are interested and engaged. Honestly, it would be interesting to hear the opinion of the insurers: the plane is more than three hundred lyamas; three hundred dead - someone had to compensate for all this. It was the opinion of insurers that slowed down flights to Tbilisi during the conflict three eights, very quickly by the way.
  • tovarich-andrey.62goncharov
    tovarich-andrey.62goncharov 9 February 2021 16: 33
    -12%
    I remember how VVP himself, personally, with a smile, handed over the black box to the "specialists" from The Hague. Puncture, poorly taught in the Office never to trust bourgeois. Now we will protest with a guilty smile. Not tired of being patient?
    1. loki565
      loki565 9 February 2021 16: 46
      +6
      I remember how VVP himself, personally, with a smile, handed over the black box to the "specialists" from The Hague. Puncture, poorly taught in the Office never to trust bourgeois. Now we will protest with a guilty smile. Not tired of being patient?

      Did you personally transmit it? Did you fly to the DPR to personally transfer? maybe you have proofs lying around somewhere?)))
  • Mark kalendarov
    Mark kalendarov 9 February 2021 16: 37
    +2
    "War is when completely innocent people die for the interests of others."
    Winston Churchill
  • Simon schempp
    Simon schempp 9 February 2021 16: 40
    -14%
    The Russian side has evidence that the missile that shot down the airliner belongs to the Ukrainian military and was fired from the territory controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but the investigation ignored this data.

    Yes, we know this evidence

    Where is dispatcher Carlos?
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 9 February 2021 17: 58
      +1
      Quote: Simon Schempp
      Yes, we know this evidence

      The Buk missile was officially announced. What the journalists said before were speculations and rumors.
    2. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 9 February 2021 19: 08
      -5
      He also rubbed this fruit about the bomb explosion on board the plane, which was arranged by the CIA, and "stale corpses" ...
    3. sleeve
      sleeve 10 February 2021 07: 38
      +2
      Exactly. "Native" evidence base. Official conclusions and comments of the MO. Experiment of manufacturers. Korotchenko is the same scribe as an "insider" or "billingket". If we want to discuss something, then it's time to clean the space of unrequited arguments. There are official sources, look. Oh, excuse me, but they are not on the other side? Or something is present, but ... classified. They don't judge by newspaper articles, even the NKVD never dreamed of this.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 9 February 2021 16: 41
    +4
    Quote: Svarog

    We have a percentage of acquittals 0,36.. So it's a pity for the deaf-mute .. they are bribed .. or a fine ..
    For comparison, the percentage of acquittals under Stalin "bloody" 40%

    And what did the comparison of these numbers give you without the qualitative components?
    You would be a magician in kindergarten.
    1. NEOZ
      NEOZ 9 February 2021 17: 13
      -1
      Quote: Tagan
      Our acquittal rate is 0,36.

      isn't that 36%?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 9 February 2021 19: 45
        0
        Quote: NEOZ
        isn't that 36%?

        Take more, 360%! good The Internet will endure everything! laughing
  • zwlad
    zwlad 9 February 2021 16: 52
    +4
    It's just that Ukraine's fault does not fit into the concept of the investigation, where the guilty person has already been appointed.
  • Mikle2000
    Mikle2000 9 February 2021 16: 58
    -8
    Zakharova is like the Foreign Ministry. Who is she addressing her statement to? Who is ready to take it seriously?
    1. Avior
      Avior 9 February 2021 17: 08
      -2
      Никто.
      It is addressed to an internal audience only.
      Others know that the Chicago Convention does not oblige to close airspace completely over war zones, which is confirmed by the investigation.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 9 February 2021 17: 42
        +2
        Quote: Avior
        Никто.

        Everything. Because this statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry is addressed precisely to the Hague clowns - you can't read?

        Quote: Avior
        Others know that the Chicago Convention does not oblige to close airspace completely over war zones, which is confirmed by the investigation.

        The investigators themselves would fly, eh? If you knew WHAT is boiling below and HOW MANY planes and flying aircraft already shot down there?

        That's the whole story.

        And the Convention leaves the decision to the authorities. And yes, there were ukraBuki and not for beauty, and for application..

        And, according to the ICAO Rules for ensuring the safety of civil aviation, there is a requirement advance notification of the internal affairs bodies about the implementation of military activities, potentially dangerous for the operations of civil aircraft.

        Did the APU do it? Not.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 9 February 2021 17: 03
    +5
    Ukraine did not close the airspace in the area of ​​the armed conflict in Donbass, which ultimately led to the death of a passenger plane, but the Netherlands will not prosecute it. This means that the Hague court turned a blind eye to Kiev's guilt in the death of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.

    Zakharova drew attention to the wrong thing.
    On January 1, 202, Dutch law was amended to make it impossible to question the DSB's report, writes Human Rights.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 9 February 2021 18: 04
    -1
    Quote: NEOZ
    Quote: Tagan
    Our acquittal rate is 0,36.

    isn't that 36%?

    I do not understand, are you asking me this? If I am, then I am aware that 0.36 is 36 percent)) just hidden under this? Let's say you can mess up a bunch and then make excuses for lack of good reason. The number of acquitted will be greater, respectively. Not?))
  • dgonni
    dgonni 9 February 2021 18: 18
    -5
    Everyone remembers Lockerbie! And it goes there. Everyone remembers what happened to the country recognized as terrorist?
  • pytar
    pytar 9 February 2021 18: 28
    -2
    I am not going to judge who shot down the Boeing. But the militia itself announced in the evening that it had shot down a "Ukrainian transport worker" in the Tores area on July 17, 2014! At the same hour in which MN17 was shot down and in the same location! The same evening, reports were shown on Russian TV channels, even on VO there was a story!
    https://topwar.ru/54473-an-26-ukrainskih-vvs-sbit-bliz-toreza-opolchency-zayavlyayut-i-o-sbitoy-sushke.html



    I'm not an expert on the topic, but how is such a coincidence possible ?! request And how did the militia find an air defense capable of operating in the high-altitude range in which Ukrainian transport workers and Boeing fly, but "They had no beech"?! Does anyone else doubt who shot down the Boeing?
    Another question is why did this happen? The most probable is a tragic mistake, which unfortunately happens in war. There are many examples!
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 9 February 2021 20: 35
      +3
      Quote: pytar
      And how did the militia find an air defense capable of operating in the high-altitude range in which Ukrainian transport workers fly?

      The question is at what altitude he flew. Its ceiling is 7300 meters, and since it is not always possible to fly at extreme heights, it was most likely even lower. Boeing flew at an altitude of 10050 meters, which is a completely different matter.
      1. pytar
        pytar 9 February 2021 22: 04
        -2
        The question is at what altitude he flew. Its ceiling is 7300 meters, and since it is not always possible to fly at extreme heights, it was most likely even lower. Boeing flew at an altitude of 10050 meters, which is a completely different matter.

        Since its first versions, "Buk" / 66 g / reaches the height of 80 km. An-14 has a ceiling of 26 km. and quite normal. flies in the range of 7,3-5 km. This is his ideal high-altitude strip. After the militia had MANPADS covering the height. up to 7 km., Ukrainian aviation began to fly higher. Accordingly, the militia received an air defense complex / Buk / for operating above this height! In such a situation as you "a transporter?!?!? An-26 flying below 5 thousand meters above the air defense zone by the militia and in the direction towards it" ???? No. Sounds wild! There are no kamikaze pilots among Ukrainian pilots. Agree!
        Two questions:
        1. Where is the Ukrainian transport aircraft An-26 shot down by the militia over Toresa, about which it reported on the evening of the 17th? Where are the remains?
        2. Are you completely izklyuvala version of the tragic mistake made by the militia, as a result of which MH17 died?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. pytar
            pytar 9 February 2021 23: 13
            -9
            Dear Alexey, tragic mistakes happen. Especially in times and places of conflict. But why is Ross. the authorities continue to lie, sinking even deeper into the swamp? Do they really think it's better this way? After admitting a mistake and apologizing, the culprit becomes involved with the melancholy of the victims of the tragedy? Repentance removes some of the guilt!
            Do you know when a mistake turns into a crime? When they try to deny it using lies and deceit! A mistake can be forgiven, but crimes, no! hi
          3. rruvim
            rruvim 10 February 2021 00: 08
            +3
            Alexey. Trust me! The militia has nothing to do with it! I will not go into details, but the Beech was too tough for us! Look for an answer from the Kiev authorities.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Crimean partisan 1974
                Crimean partisan 1974 10 February 2021 10: 24
                +3
                It was not the militias who were shooting, but the regular officers ... well, finally, they began to understand that the DPR militias had nothing to do with it .... and the highlight is that the regular air defense officers were only at the Ukrainian Armed Forces and a rocket from storage bases on the western outskirts ... The only thing left is to find out why the Hague sodomites are so drowning for the Kiev junta, thereby humiliating the memory of their dead citizens ...
          4. The comment was deleted.
        2. Dart2027
          Dart2027 9 February 2021 22: 51
          0
          Quote: pytar
          This is his ideal high-altitude strip. After the militia had MANPADS covering the height. up to 5 km., Ukrainian aviation began to fly higher.

          But for some reason, too, the militia shot down the aforementioned aviation until it stopped flying altogether, with the same MANPADS.
          Quote: pytar
          An-26 flying below 5 thousand. m. above the air defense zone by the militia and in the direction towards it "

          Given the fact that he had to land somewhere there, and did not fly in transit, it is quite possible.
          Quote: pytar
          Where is the Ukrainian transport aircraft An-26 shot down by the militia over Tores, which it reported on the evening of the 17th? Where are the remains?

          The question is what was shot down there and whether it was. There is a possibility of shooting down from a missile defense system, but it is not known exactly whether any AN was shot down at all, because all this is at the level of rumors.
          Quote: pytar
          You completely ignore the version of the tragic mistake made by the militia

          The militia have not been able to find BUKs for several years.
          1. pytar
            pytar 10 February 2021 10: 32
            +1
            But for some reason, too, the militia shot down the aforementioned aviation until it stopped flying altogether, with the same MANPADS.

            First, the Ukrainian Air Force flew right over the heads of the militia. And they ironed them in earnest. In response, the militia appeared MANPADS, shot down several Ukrainian aircraft, and these crossed at heights above the MANPADS oseg. Then Buki appeared at the air defense of the militia, blocking the airspace along the entire height. Several aircraft were shot down. It was then that the Ukrainian Air Force stopped flying close, they are not crazy. No Ukrainian transport operator risked flying into the militia's air defense zone. And then suddenly "An-26 was shot down," and a Boeing fell!
            The question is what was shot down there and whether it was. There is a possibility of shooting down from a missile defense system, but it is not known exactly whether any AN was shot down at all, because all this is at the level of rumors.



            A lot of Russian TV channels were shown.
            The militia have not been able to find BUKs for several years.

            In the first case the criminal tries to hide the means of the crime. To his regret, he did not have time ... Too many traces left in a hurry.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 10 February 2021 11: 04
              0
              Quote: pytar
              Then the air defense of the militia appeared Buki

              Quote: Dart2027
              The militia have not been able to find BUKs for several years.

              Quote: pytar
              A lot of Russian TV channels were shown.

              I watched the video. It says that the residents saw how some plane was shot down by some kind of rocket, but there is no hint that any of them know exactly what the rocket was and who launched it. Yes, and the identification of the aircraft exactly how the An-26 raises questions - the fact that the transport aircraft was distinguished from the attack aircraft is understandable, but how many people will be able to distinguish a Boeing from an An-9 from the ground when it flies at an altitude of XNUMX km? Or when they see a falling car? I don't know such people.
              Quote: pytar
              In the first case the criminal tries to hide the means of the crime. To his regret, he did not have time ... Too many traces left in a hurry.

              It's a common thing for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and now they are trying to get out of the puddle.
              1. pytar
                pytar 10 February 2021 12: 19
                -1
                ... It says that the residents saw how some plane was shot down by some missile, but there is no hint that any of them know exactly what the missile was and who launched it. Yes, and the identification of the aircraft exactly as the An-26 raises questions - the fact that the transport aircraft was distinguished from the attack aircraft is understandable, but how many people will be able to distinguish a Boeing from an An-9 from the ground when it flies at an altitude of XNUMX km? Or when they see a falling car? ...

                Certainly not how to visually distinguish the An-26 from the Boeing at such heights. Residents said they saw falling fragments of the plane shot down by the militia! Boeing has fallen! An-26 no! Therefore, the militia shot down not the An-26, but the Boeing!
                It's a common thing for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and now they are trying to get out of the puddle.

                The essence, the consequent wave of contradictory hardening of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, looks like in a hurry invented attempts to hide. The more they lie, the less convincing it turns out. But the propaganda in the Russian media is carried out in massed fashion! As a result, only 3% of Russians believe that it was the militia that shot down the Boeing. Moreover, in the world, hardly anyone doubts that it was they who shot him down.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 10 February 2021 15: 27
                  -1
                  Quote: pytar
                  Residents said they saw falling fragments of the plane shot down by the militia!

                  And what else could they say if they knew that only the Armed Forces of Ukraine had aviation and they mistook him for a transport worker of the same Armed Forces? None of them said that they saw how the militia shot him down, but these are different things.
                  Quote: pytar
                  The essence, the consequent wave of contradictory hardening of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, looks like in a hurry invented attempts to hide. The more they lie, the less convincing it turns out. But the propaganda in rus-media is carried out in massed fashion! As a result, only 3% of Russians believe that it was the militia that shot down the Boeing.

                  That is, you can't fool the Russian population with Ukrainian-American lies?
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 10 February 2021 16: 24
                    -1
                    And what else could they say if they knew that only the Armed Forces had aviation ...

                    That's it! good Only the Armed Forces of Ukraine have aviation, and accordingly, the militias have timely air defense capable of countering Ukrainian aviation at all heights! Ross. Tezza that the militia "did not have a Buka", you smashed it into smithereens! yes
                    That is, you can't fool the Russian population with Ukrainian-American lies?

                    You seriously believe that Ross. propaganda only tell the truth and not fool people? laughing You are either a very naive person, or you hate to admit the truth. bully
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 10 February 2021 17: 47
                      -1
                      Quote: pytar
                      That's it! good Only the Armed Forces of Ukraine have aviation, so the militias have timely air defense capable of countering Ukrainian aviation at all heights!
                      And they also have OTRK capable of striking Kiev, fighter aircraft and ... What else is there?
                      From the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine had aviation, it does not follow that the militia had Buki.
                      Quote: pytar
                      You seriously believe that Ross. propaganda only tell the truth and not fool people?

                      Конечно.
                      1. pytar
                        pytar 10 February 2021 18: 11
                        -1
                        And they also have OTRK capable of striking Kiev, fighter aircraft and ... What else is there?

                        OTRK and IA were not needed, but everything that the militia needed appeared. yes
                        pytar (Boyan Ivanov)- You seriously believe that Ross. propaganda only tell the truth and not fool people? Dart2027 - Of course.

                        Faith - the recognition of something true, regardless of factual or logical justification ... Faith is conditioned by the peculiarities of the human psyche. Unconditionally accepted information, texts, phenomena, events or one's own ideas and conclusions can further serve as the basis for self-identification, determine some of the actions, judgments, norms of behavior and relationships.
                        It is pointless to discuss with the believer the facts that differ from their faith. hi
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 February 2021 20: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: pytar
                        OTRK and IA were not needed

                        Is it? And why didn't they need the entire range of weapons?
                        However, the fact that they have not found any Buks cannot be refuted.
                        Quote: pytar
                        It is pointless to discuss with the believer the facts that differ from their faith.

                        And you do not mean blindly believe the APU-State Department tales?
  • Kushka
    Kushka 9 February 2021 18: 30
    0
    The title is not correct.
    The court (Themis) has a bandage over the eyes.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 9 February 2021 19: 35
    0
    Quote: NEOZ
    Quote: Tagan
    (and incite on the sly).

    you have a typical American practice:
    1.create conditions
    2.wait for the reaction
    3. shout that they are offended!
    ps
    is it not incitement to slander us in court?

    I do not need to wait for something, but it is enough that there is, since this character is known for his statements and "facts", who often, let's say diplomatically, is mistaken. Well, like a seller in a store))
    According to clause 3. I do not understand, this is where I shouted that they are offended? or did you want to offend me?)))
    Slander you in court ... What are you talking about?
    So who offended whom?
  • Alsur
    Alsur 9 February 2021 19: 50
    +2
    Quote: pytar
    I am not going to judge who shot down the Boeing. But the militia itself announced in the evening that it had shot down a "Ukrainian transport worker" in the Tores area on July 17, 2014! At the same hour in which MN17 was shot down and in the same location! The same evening, reports were shown on Russian TV channels, even on VO there was a story!
    https://topwar.ru/54473-an-26-ukrainskih-vvs-sbit-bliz-toreza-opolchency-zayavlyayut-i-o-sbitoy-sushke.html



    I'm not an expert on the topic, but how is such a coincidence possible ?! request And how did the militia find an air defense capable of operating in the high-altitude range in which Ukrainian transport workers and Boeing fly, but "They had no beech"?! Does anyone else doubt who shot down the Boeing?
    Another question is why did this happen? The most probable is a tragic mistake, which unfortunately happens in war. There are many examples!

    The militia, which you call terrorists in Ukraine, at that time were not some kind of official armed formations, especially since there were no official representatives publicizing the position of the militia. Anyone could talk there and about anything, this is not proof even once.
    Regarding the downed transports, in my opinion they were all shot down during landing, from a low altitude, or am I wrong?
    1. pytar
      pytar 9 February 2021 20: 36
      -6
      The militia, which you call terrorists in Ukraine ...

      First, I have nothing to do with Ukraine. I do not know "how is it, what is there".
      at that time, they were not some kind of official armed formations, especially since there were no official representatives publicizing the position of the militia.

      Extremely strange hardening! In your opinion, if "unofficially" shot and hit, it doesn't count?
      Anyone could talk there and about anything, this is not proof even once.

      Very much mistaken.
      Regarding the downed transports, in my opinion they were all shot down during landing, from a low altitude, or am I wrong?

      This is a different case. On the evening of the 17th, the Russian media, reporting that "the militia shot down the Ukrainian transport aircraft An-26 over Torres" due to the lack of a photo of the scene, sometimes put a photo of the An-26 crashed at the Luhansk airport. Photo on the headlines of the newspaper "VGLYAD" is just that. In general, all the downed Ukrainian transporters are documented in time, place and circumstances. There is no "shot down" by the militia over the Torres "An-26", but at the same place we have the remains of a Boeing MN17 with 298 corpses ...
      1. iouris
        iouris 9 February 2021 21: 08
        -4
        The investigation was not carried out properly. And without investigation, what kind of court? And there is no need to refer to the fact that for some reason the Kiev troops fired at the area of ​​the fall and allegedly did not let the "investigators" there.
        1. pytar
          pytar 9 February 2021 22: 10
          -6
          The investigation was not carried out properly.

          The accused are always not satisfied with the course of the investigation.
          I wonder how you explain the strange coincidence of reports in the militia media and the Russian media about the downing of a Ukrainian transport An-26 over Torres / July 17, 2014 / and the downed Boeing at that time?
  • iouris
    iouris 9 February 2021 21: 04
    -2
    The Foreign Ministry pushes water in a mortar.
  • Kushka
    Kushka 9 February 2021 23: 03
    +1
    [quote = Leader of the Redskins] Zakharova would not have had to again apologize[b] [/ b]. Too loud and ambiguous statement. [/ Quote]
    Historically, in Russian diplomatic practice, such
    the word, at least as a common phoneme, is not
    exist. Although it can take many forms, even
    material, for example, in the form of a shoe. In the "verbal" form,
    met as "Kuz'kina's mother", but there are difficulties with his full
    a valuable translation into the languages ​​accepted by the UN.
    I don't think Masha is the person who will be allowed
    change the established historically diplomatic practice
    Russia. Here Lavrov, yes, this one boldly "experiments".
  • rruvim
    rruvim 9 February 2021 23: 29
    -3
    Let's replace Peskov with Zakharova! Though it will be more sophisticated to lie ...
    1. rruvim
      rruvim 9 February 2021 23: 38
      +2
      On the basis of a virtually empty multi-page report of a "purely independent" expert group, the official Hague came to the conclusion that there are no convincing grounds for bringing Kiev to justice. The Ukrainian authorities allegedly did not realize that there was a threat to civil aviation at that time. But what nonsense! From Zakharova ...
      Ukrainian authorities ... were not aware of the threat to civil aviation
      Because, otherwise, according to Zakharova, the Lao PDR possessed serious air defense. That was not in principle, except for a few "Arrows" and "Eagle". What is Zakharova talking about?
      1. rruvim
        rruvim 9 February 2021 23: 45
        0
        10 meters for a Boeing is a serious air defense. Why does Zakharova broadcast that the Ukrainians had to close their airspace. Does she know that the LDNR had serious air defense? These women, diplomats, must be driven away with pissy rags!
        1. three
          three 10 February 2021 12: 55
          0
          Art. 9 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation. “The responsibility for the implementation of special safety measures rests with the country responsible for the provision of air traffic services in the airspace affected by the conflict. This country should“ identify the geographic area of ​​the conflict, assess the hazards or potential hazards to civil aircraft operations and determine whether to avoid flights in the conflict area, or you can continue flying subject to certain conditions. ”Maybe we’ll chase you with rags?
          1. rruvim
            rruvim 10 February 2021 13: 05
            0
            assess the hazards or potential hazards to civil aircraft operations and determine
            And there was no danger for transit ships! The militia did not have air defense that could shoot down aircraft at an altitude of 9-10 km. AND EVERYTHING !!! And Zakharova questions this.
            1. three
              three 10 February 2021 13: 14
              0
              You know, to be honest, I don't care who shot down there: war is a dangerous thing ... And here - diplomats do their job, beggars howl their history, etc. I only know for sure - we will be strong, no one will touch us. And decisive. They dunked Josep Borrell in poop - howl in Europe - that's nice ... They will continue to talk - just say - we fucking yars across Brussels! The time for diplomacy is passing, we, IMHO, have nothing to lose.
              1. rruvim
                rruvim 10 February 2021 14: 07
                +1
                But I just want to "not beat Yars in Brussels," but sit on the veranda of my house in the Vladimir region and discuss with a friend about prices for round wood with vodka and fried bacon. yes
            2. Dart2027
              Dart2027 10 February 2021 15: 29
              -1
              Quote: rruvim
              And there was no danger for transit ships! The militia did not have air defense that could shoot down aircraft at an altitude of 9-10 km.

              In flight, anything can happen, so the likelihood that the plane would have to descend (due to malfunction or weather) cannot be completely ruled out, so Zakharova is not so wrong.
              1. rruvim
                rruvim 10 February 2021 15: 46
                0
                Here the question is in principle! If the militias had systems that could theoretically shoot down a transit vessel at an altitude of 9300 m, then yes - a flightless one is necessary! But the Ukrainian side did not introduce it, because it did not believe that the militia had such an air defense system. UKRAINE DIDN'T BELIEVE! And this version must be adhered to! And this is what our diplomacy must hold on to, which has always been assumed. But Zakharova again "welter" brings in. Boeing did not descend, it was diverted from the course by the controllers. Our diplomats must adhere to a clear position: the militia did not have the strength, not the means to hit the transit aircraft. Ukraine did the right thing by not introducing a no-fly zone for transit ships sailing over the territory of Lao PDR, because knewthat the Republics have no serious air defense systems. And we must stick to this version! Not only lawyers, but also diplomats, to whom the dancer considers herself.
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 10 February 2021 16: 08
                  -1
                  Quote: rruvim
                  If the militias had systems that could theoretically shoot down a transit vessel at an altitude of 9300 m, then yes - a flightless one is necessary! But the Ukrainian side did not introduce it, because it did not believe that the militia had such an air defense system.

                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Anything can be in flight, so the possibility that the aircraft would have to descend (due to malfunction or weather) cannot be completely ruled out
                  1. rruvim
                    rruvim 10 February 2021 16: 20
                    0
                    He sank 400 feet and changed course. Everything has long been "obsessed".
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 10 February 2021 16: 24
                      0
                      Quote: rruvim
                      He sank 400 feet and changed course

                      AND? Again
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      Anything can be in flight, so the possibility that the aircraft would have to descend (due to malfunction or weather) cannot be completely ruled out

                      What's incomprehensible? What is the fault in Ukraine?
                      1. rruvim
                        rruvim 10 February 2021 16: 33
                        0
                        Wine in the Soviet Union! Which placed the Buki and the 300s in the Ukrainian SSR, which shot down the Tu-shka from Israel and the Malaysian Boeing. It's all right?
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 10 February 2021 17: 48
                        -1
                        Quote: rruvim
                        Wine in the Soviet Union!

                        More precisely, in Lenin, who pushed through the division into republics, contributing to the creation of Ukraine.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 10 February 2021 07: 16
    +3
    Quote: voyaka uh
    I know. It was not the militia who were shooting, but the regular officers.
    And the militias did not order them to shoot.

    Yeah, they fired a Ukrainian rocket, which shortly before that was exchanged for bacon at the Ukrainian fascists. And then they personally reported to you (career officers).
  • Tagan
    Tagan 10 February 2021 07: 42
    -1
    Quote: pytar
    The investigation was not carried out properly.

    The accused are always not satisfied with the course of the investigation.
    I wonder how you explain the strange coincidence of reports in the militia media and the Russian media about the downing of a Ukrainian transport An-26 over Torres / July 17, 2014 / and the downed Boeing at that time?

    Will it suit you if you are personally accused of it?
    How do you think the news travels? So there is only one source. Few examples?
    Admit it to yourself. You gave a set of "proofs" to prove little. You just really want Russia to be found guilty.
    Some kind of unusual "liberal" public in our country hates its country and is ready to pour slop over it. The buns will dry up - what will you do?
    1. pytar
      pytar 10 February 2021 10: 19
      -1
      Will it suit you if you are personally accused of it?

      Each of us makes mistakes every day. But not everyone commits crimes! A mistake turns into a crime when they try to hide it, to smear it.
      How do you think the news travels? So there is only one source.

      The novelty about the "downed Ukrainian An-26" was published by the LPNR and RF media shortly / half an hour, an hour / after the Boeing was shot down. There was also a video of the location of the event. Are you saying that these media are controlled by Ukraine and the State Department?
      You gave a set of "proofs" to prove little.

      I asked just a few questions that are in front of everyone's eyes. There is a lot of evidence of the involvement of the Russian Federation in the tragedy, it is impossible to ignore them.
      You just really want Russia to be found guilty.

      I want the truth to be established and the guilty be punished. It doesn't matter who he is.
      Some kind of unusual "liberal" public in our country hates its country and is ready to pour slop over it.

      Don't confuse the country with the ruling authorities. These are two different things. The authorities can commit crimes, and the country should not bear the blame for them. This is possible only if we are objectified, critical of their actions. Otherwise, we become complicit in the crimes committed by the authorities.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 10 February 2021 11: 08
        0
        Quote: pytar
        Each of us makes mistakes every day. But not everyone commits crimes! A mistake turns into a crime when they try to hide it, to smear it.
        Tell the APU and their owners about this.
        Quote: pytar
        The novelty about the "downed Ukrainian An-26" was published by the LPNR and RF media shortly / half an hour, an hour / after the Boeing was shot down.
        Based on the testimony of people who saw the shot down plane, but had no idea who shot it down.
        Quote: pytar
        I want the truth to be established and the guilty be punished.
        Oh really? Well, demand the punishment of Ukraine and the United States.
        Quote: pytar
        Don't confuse the country with the ruling authorities. These are two different things.
        Yes, yes, yes, this cheap propaganda has long been outdated.
        1. pytar
          pytar 10 February 2021 12: 27
          -2
          Tell the APU and their owners about this.

          Why do you flatly ignore the air defense of the militia and the ego of the owners?
          Based on the testimony of people who saw the shot down plane, but had no idea who shot it down.

          Listening to their testimony, one gets the impression that they know who shot down the plane, but did not know which plane was shot down!
          Oh really? Well, demand the punishment of Ukraine and the United States.

          What evidence? The Russian Aerospace Forces, VT-reconnaissance constantly monitored the entire airspace of Ukraine and the adjacent territories of the LPNR!
          Yes, yes, yes, this cheap propaganda has long been outdated.

          Massive propaganda is being conducted in the Russian Federation. It amazes me that the citizens of the federation do not notice the obvious contradictions in it, the obvious inconsistency in the tezz of the propagandists! I suspect that many people understand the essence of what is at stake, but do not find the strength to admit the fact!
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 10 February 2021 15: 35
            -1
            Quote: pytar
            Why do you flatly ignore the air defense of the militia
            So show us their Buki? If you do not know, then the Buk is a whole system consisting of several machines, which cannot be easily hidden, only they are looking for it there with the same success as the RF Armed Forces.
            Quote: pytar
            Listening to their testimony, it seems that they know who shot down the plane.

            Quote: Dart2027
            And what else could they say if they knew that only the Armed Forces of Ukraine had aviation and they mistook him for a transport worker of the same Armed Forces? None of them said that they saw how the militia shot him down, but these are different things.

            Quote: pytar
            What evidence? Russian Aerospace Forces, VT-reconnaissance constantly monitored the entire airspace of Ukraine

            AND? Couldn't identify the Boeing flying on a standard route at standard altitudes? Seriously?
            Quote: pytar

            Massive propaganda is being conducted in the Russian Federation.

            That is, the fact that the people are told the truth saddens you.
            Quote: pytar
            It amazes me that the citizens of the federation do not notice the obvious contradictions in it, the obvious inconsistency in the tezz of the propagandists!

            Yes, we all understand the fact that your lies are sewn with white thread too.
            1. pytar
              pytar 10 February 2021 16: 34
              -1
              So show us their Buki? If you are not in the know, then the Beech is a whole system consisting of several machines, which cannot be easily hidden ...

              You can't hide, even if you tried! It turned out unsuccessfully. Evidence in court, the whole route is known.
              AND? Couldn't identify the Boeing flying on a standard route at standard altitudes? Seriously?

              In place, Buk's calculation could well have made a mistake. There are plenty of examples of similar situations.
              Interestingly, repeating "The beech is not ours, but Ukrainian," what evidence was presented? Some unfounded statements! And here is the evidence of the exact location and affiliation of Buk who shot down Boeing to the militia, presented to the court!
              That is, the fact that the people are told the truth saddens you.

              It saddens me that they make a fool of the people by telling them fairy tales. And that innocent people died because of a tragic mistake.
              Yes, we all understand the fact that your lies are sewn with white thread too.

              More and more those who understand who are really lying! Moreover, it lies primitively, obviously for internal consumption.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 10 February 2021 17: 51
                -1
                Quote: pytar
                You can't hide, even if you tried! It turned out unsuccessfully.
                Well, where are they?
                Quote: pytar
                In place, Buk's calculation could well have made a mistake.
                Which Beech?
                Quote: pytar
                Interestingly, repeating "The beech is not ours, but Ukrainian," what evidence was presented?
                The fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have them is a fact.
                Quote: pytar
                It saddens me that they make a fool of the people by telling them fairy tales.
                I know that this is what you are doing.
                Quote: pytar
                And that innocent people died because of a tragic mistake.
                Why mistakes? The APU knew exactly who they were shooting at.
                Quote: pytar
                More and more those who understand who are really lying! Moreover, it lies primitively, obviously for internal consumption.
                In Ukraine, everything is generally becoming more primitive and primitive.
    2. Fan-fan
      Fan-fan 10 February 2021 11: 08
      -3
      we have a "liberal" public - they hate their country
      Don't confuse a country with thieves and crooks in this country. Or do you not know that Navalny, speaking in the European Parliament, urged Europe not to impose sanctions against Russia, but to press down specific thieves and crooks in Russia with sanctions.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 10 February 2021 15: 36
        -1
        Quote: Fan-Fan
        Don't confuse a country with thieves and crooks in this country.

        Are you to yourself?
  • fif21
    fif21 10 February 2021 09: 41
    +1
    It should be noted that in the Russian Federation during the pandemic, everything is fine in the banking sector, and the repressive apparatus worked like a clock. The Hague court is fulfilling an order to demonize Russia, and one cannot hope for an impartial investigation. request
  • Tagan
    Tagan 10 February 2021 11: 06
    0
    Quote: pytar

    You just really want Russia to be found guilty.

    I want the truth to be established and the guilty be punished. It doesn't matter who he is.

    An interesting picture emerges. For example, the accusing side quickly seized on fresh evidence - the serial number that surfaced, which indicated that the ammunition was probably produced in the Soviet Union. But as soon as the data of reception and transmission and the place of further storage were provided, the investigation somehow quickly lost interest in this information.))) And this is not the only trick.
    There are a lot of questions to the ukrovermacht, to which no answers have been received. In addition, the alleged participants in the events of the Ukrainian side who, as it were, self-destructed, and who evaporated altogether. There are questions to the zaluzhniki, who, according to their assurances, have evidence, but did not dare to voice them. Why's that? That is, for you, this side is not favorable by definition. Your beliefs are based on news feeds. The rest you do not intend to take into account.
    1. pytar
      pytar 10 February 2021 12: 38
      -1
      For example, the accusing party quickly seized on fresh evidence ...

      Andrey, the charges undoubtedly have stayed in the theses. But the evidence base is sufficient to determine unequivocally who shot down this unwary Boeing. At that time, the same Ross. side full of holes everywhere! And Almaz-Antey's obvious attempts to adjust the results of the examination and field examinations to suit themselves, further compromise them.
      Your beliefs are based on news feeds. The rest you do not intend to take into account.

      My beliefs are based on public information coming from both sides. Compare, contrast. And you obviously take only theses Ross. side. Even if we look only at them, their inconsistency is obvious.
  • Tagan
    Tagan 10 February 2021 11: 33
    +1
    Quote: Fan-Fan
    we have a "liberal" public - they hate their country
    Don't confuse a country with thieves and crooks in this country. Or do you not know that Navalny, speaking in the European Parliament, urged Europe not to impose sanctions against Russia, but to press down specific thieves and crooks in Russia with sanctions.

    Nevertheless, you gave the example of a swindler and a thief, and of course a Nazi to boot. Here's another inconvenient thing. Most of all this movement is paid for and Navalny, including from behind the hill. Will foreign countries help you?
  • Tagan
    Tagan 10 February 2021 13: 09
    -1
    Quote: pytar
    For example, the accusing party quickly seized on fresh evidence ...

    Andrey, the charges undoubtedly have stayed in the theses. But the evidence base is sufficient to determine unequivocally who shot down this unwary Boeing. At that time, the same Ross. side full of holes everywhere! And Almaz-Antey's obvious attempts to adjust the results of the examination and field examinations to suit themselves, further compromise them.
    Your beliefs are based on news feeds. The rest you do not intend to take into account.

    My beliefs are based on public information coming from both sides. Compare, contrast. And you obviously take only theses Ross. side. Even if we look only at them, their inconsistency is obvious.

    Well, suppose the evidence base is sufficient so far only in words. And it is based on data with a "highly likely" postscript. This is exactly the question of unambiguity. Leaky - retouched ukrokartinki, which you calmly refer to evidence. The fact that you have compared and collated some public information is generally not proof. This is your conviction and nothing more.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. rruvim
      rruvim 10 February 2021 14: 34
      0
      Yes, there is no evidence that he was a RUSSIAN Buk! No, that's it!!! Soviet yes!
      1. Kildin
        Kildin 11 February 2021 11: 15
        0
        Russian, namely Russian
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 10 February 2021 15: 37
      -1
      Quote: Kildin
      Lord, how nice it is to watch the so-called cramps. "patriots"!

      Ukraine and the United States, which cannot blame their crimes on Russia.
      1. Kildin
        Kildin 11 February 2021 11: 14
        0
        You perfectly understand who I mean by the word "patriots". And I put these words in quotation marks for a reason.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 11 February 2021 13: 08
          -1
          Quote: Kildin
          You perfectly understand who I mean by the word "patriots".

          And you perfectly understand what I mean.
          1. Kildin
            Kildin 11 February 2021 19: 15
            0
            You seem like one of those in quotes
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 11 February 2021 20: 40
              -1
              Quote: Kildin
              You seem to be one of those

              Said one of those who are called enemies of the people.
              1. Kildin
                Kildin 15 February 2021 11: 08
                0
                Putin's state. I can and should be called an enemy of the Putin state, and I am proud of that. Apparently also your enemy, approx. But definitely not the people.
                PS. For all the people, unlearn to speak
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 15 February 2021 11: 55
                  0
                  Quote: Kildin
                  Putin's state.

                  And before that the USSR, and before that the Russian Empire.
                  This cowardly hiding of one's goals from oneself is no longer surprising.
                  Quote: Kildin
                  PS. For all the people, unlearn to speak

                  Unlearn yourself. And we ourselves will figure it out.
                  1. Kildin
                    Kildin 15 February 2021 17: 18
                    0
                    1. Do you know my goals? It's very, very funny. And even funnier is the attempt to attract RI, a state that has not been there for more than a hundred years. As for the USSR, yes, I do not like it, but I have my own reasons for this, which I do not intend to tell YOU about.
                    2. And I, unlike you, do not speak for everyone. And you again start to say something in the plural. For yourself, sir, speak only for yourself, for more you have no rights.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 15 February 2021 17: 24
                      0
                      Quote: Kildin
                      Do you know my goals? It's very, very funny.

                      And they are standard to amazement.
                      Quote: Kildin
                      And even funnier is the attempt to attract RI, a state that has not been there for more than a hundred years.

                      Which does not prevent you from learning lessons from the past.
                      Quote: Kildin
                      And I, unlike you, do not speak for everyone.

                      True? And do you require something else from Russia?
                      Quote: Kildin
                      For yourself, sir, speak only for yourself, for more you have no rights.

                      And speak for yourself. They say it was my masters from Washington who ordered Kiev to shoot down a civilian plane in order to get an excuse to put pressure on Russia.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 16 February 2021 11: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Kildin
                        So voice them
                        The struggle for all good against all bad (in terms of horses on the streets) and the collapse of the country (this is for those who guide them).
                        Quote: Kildin
                        Times are changing and
                        "History does not teach that no one wants to learn its lessons."
                        Quote: Kildin
                        Not from the country, but from its authorities
                        I am not against Russia, but against the State.

                        Quote: Kildin
                        Leave your wet dreams with you. The plane was shot down
                        Ukrainian Buk and evidence of this sea, and the attempts of Ukrainian magazines and their colleagues in the profession to dump the blame on Russia will be nothing but another shame of poor representatives of the ancient profession.
                        Quote: Kildin
                        PS. This concludes our conversation.
                        I'm not keeping you here, go to the Censor.
  • pytar
    pytar 10 February 2021 16: 50
    -1
    Alas, too much data confirms the fact that the Boeing was shot down by a Russian Buk.

    There are few doubts in the world, the evidence is convincing. Recently, it seems that Ross. the side understood it. As a result, they decided to make a bias on the formal side of the trial.
    Iran found the strength to admit its mistake, Russia did not, and this is very sad.

    In addition to the very fact of innocent victims, the second most sad thing is exactly that! Strong is not afraid to admit a mistake and apologize! The weak one tries to lie. Iran found strength, pleaded guilty and accepted responsibility! Accordingly, in this negative environment, I received respect! The situation calmed down, everything went into the legal channel! I wrote above in another comment: A mistake turns into a crime when they try to deny it using lies and deceit! A mistake can be forgiven, but crimes, no!
    Lord, how nice it is to watch the so-called "patriots"!

    You correctly put the "patriots" in kavichkas. These are not patriots! No. I wonder how the kids would react if / God forbid / something happened to him?
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 10 February 2021 17: 54
      -2
      Quote: pytar
      There are few doubts in the world, the evidence is convincing.

      Where are they? How many are there on trial?
      Quote: pytar
      Strong is not afraid to admit a mistake and apologize! The weak one tries to lie.

      Yes Yes Yes. Is it more difficult to come up with a divorce? Should Russia take the blame on Ukraine and apologize? Thanks, we'll manage somehow.
      Quote: pytar
      I wonder how the kids would react if / God forbid / something happened to him?
      I wonder how you will sing if the following sacred victims will be from among your loved ones.
  • rruvim
    rruvim 10 February 2021 16: 39
    0
    Level of Investigations: Accused among several names in the downing of Boeing Strelkov. But at this time Girkin and his associates saved the ass. What aircraft did he care about?
  • rruvim
    rruvim 10 February 2021 16: 56
    +1
    The defendant must never say something that changes its presumption of innocence (Roman law). Russia is accused of shooting down MH-17, not the outskirts. We must be silent, just be silent! Let them prove. And Zakharova went on the offensive. What for??? Why blame the Outskirts for being in the practice of law - "He said it himself" (He said himself - this is the fact that the Outskirts did not introduce a no-fly zone, as she was sure that the militia did not have any serious air defense)! Substituting LDNR, even with a hint. Shut up! And that's it!
  • rruvim
    rruvim 10 February 2021 22: 00
    +1
    Who served in the air defense will understand me. Although I served in the electronic warfare. Yes, the Buk launcher has an internal sector view indicator. Let's say one of the installations fell into the hands of the Cossack partisans in the Torez area. The investigation in The Hague dismisses the presence of a full battery - KP, "Dome" and vehicles of the entire complex during an attack on this side. How would it be necessary for the Cossack partisans to get drunk in order to hit the MN-17 using the "sectoral" indicator of the launcher, and even at the maximum height of the rocket's inertia? Fantastic, and more! We needed a prepared calculation with all target designation means and with all machines. Apart from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, no one in the area had anything.