Military Review

Moon: China vs. USA. Where will Russia be?

160
Yes, today we have to admit that China has broken into the space family and will not go anywhere from it now. However, this was understandable before, but the first places in near-space surveys and analysts were taken by the successes of the Elon Musk program and the directly opposite statements by Dmitry Rogozin in terms of success.


However, if we talk about who will more beautifully declare their future successes, then, of course, Rogozin is beyond competition.

However, we have not Rogozin on our agenda, but China. A country that has made just a giant leap into space. Considering that the Chinese began work on integration into space much later than the USSR and the USA, and even not having such a level of development of both science and technology - there really is a standing ovation.



Yes, the Chinese have a secret trump card. More precisely, it is not a secret, but a very significant trump card that will really allow China not only to catch up, but, possibly, to overtake its rivals in space.

And this trump card is called - socialist planning. That is, a clearly developed concept and a plan for its implementation in accordance with the teachings of Marxism-Leninism, which is followed by the CPC, the leading country.

And you shouldn't even think about how erroneous or hopeless this teaching can be. Because it was on it that the Soviet Union at one time broke into space leaders. And it was precisely on the rejection of such a plan that Russia lost its leadership.

So, China, implementing its own concept, is gradually beginning to catch up and even break away from competitors.

Having tested everything that was necessary at two small orbital stations "Tiangong" (I would call them copies of "Salut"), the Chinese are starting to build a multi-module orbital station of the ISS type. Will they build it? There is no doubt about it.

Interplanetary stations. Full order. At the end of last year, the Chinese Chang'e-5 spacecraft delivered soil samples from the lunar surface to Earth. This is the first delivery of lunar soil to Earth in 45 years, since the Soviet mission "Luna-24", which took place in 1976.

Well, at what pace the PRC is sowing near-earth space with satellites, everyone can see for himself. There is nothing pleasant for us.

What about the USA?

Everything is quite complicated there. It all depends on who the president is and what his personal attitude to the space program is. Remember how Obama was criticized for his negative attitude towards the lunar program, which led to its curtailment?

But, as it turned out, Obama was right, redirecting efforts and money to support private projects. And as a result, SpaceX appeared, its own reusable launch vehicles appeared, which made life very, very much easier for the American space program in terms of independence from Russia.

Yes, the lunar program was on the sidelines. And what is it? There is no sense in the lunar program if there are no ships and rockets capable of working out the lunar programs.

Russia ... It's sad here. And, unfortunately, apart from the theoretical shuffling of Rogozin from side to side, we have nothing. That flight to Mars, the lunar program, then its own orbital station. With all that, the problem with launch vehicles has not been fully resolved.

I just don't want to talk about the new generation spacecraft. All the same module "Science" for long-term construction, that "Federation" - "Eagle" that "Argo". Conversations endlessly and endlessly, boundless, like space ...

But there is no need to talk about Russia, or rather, there is nothing yet. Let's go back to the USA.

There, too, jumping be healthy. Especially around the moon.

Donald Trump decided to return the Apollo-Artemis lunar program that Obama had removed from the far safe. The program is outwardly strong: a lunar station "Gateway", regular flights to the moon, the construction of a station on the surface of the satellite.

Will they be able to? Well, since Musk has solved the problem with launch vehicles, it is possible. But not by the specified 2024. Here, sorry, it's hard to believe.



And now Trump is done. Enter history, as another president-conqueror of the moon, he will not succeed. And Biden ...

In general, one must speak carefully for Biden. Having watched several of his speeches, I still did not understand how the new US president generally views the space program. And does he even look at her somehow. So, given the unstable political behavior of Biden in some issues (I'm not about hatred of Russia and China, if anything - approx.), I would not be surprised if NASA once again swooped down on budget cuts, and Apollo Artemis again went to the archive.

Here in Biden it will be performed easily and naturally.

And then it is quite possible that the Chinese will land on the moon before the Americans.

Considering the attitude in the United States to the Moon ("Whoever got up earlier - that and the slippers"), there the satellite is considered almost property, this will cause not the best resonance in America. And rightly so, by the way. Statements of some American politicians on the theme that "everything that is mined on the moon should belong to the United States" make you want to twist your finger to your temple, nothing more.

So before the "Death Star" in orbit of the Earth and inspection spaceships on approach, it will not take long to finish badly. And there it is not far from a room with soft walls in general.

And of course, one cannot fail to note the successes of two rival American space corporations, the already mentioned SpaceX Elon Musk and Blue Origin of Jeff Bezos.

Both are developing space technology, launching satellites, SpaceX is creating a Starlink orbital network of 12 thousand satellites, Blue Origin is also working to create its own similar network, albeit smaller.

And both companies declare cooperation with NASA on the lunar program. Will it work? Everything is possible.

However, the main thing that these companies have done is that with the help of their developments (especially reusable launch vehicles), they have significantly reduced the cost of one kilogram of payload, thrown into low-earth orbit. The orbit became more accessible than numerous research centers immediately began to use, which previously could not afford space launches.

And what about us?

Well, if apart from historical glory, which, in fact, is not Russian, but Soviet?

In the world (especially in Europe) it is believed that the whole world is watching the decline of Russian cosmonautics.

19 launches (17 successful) in 2017
17 launches (16 successful) in 2018
22 launches (21 successful) In 2019
15 launches (15 successful) in 2020

A confident third place after China and the USA. And the European Union, which is on its heels, with its own program.

In the Czech edition iDNES.cz there was an article in which Karel Zvonik expressed the opinion that “Russia, which cannot be denied inventiveness, has recently lost a clear and understandable goal. Judging by the inexhaustible stream of statements by Russian leaders, the country under the leadership of Vladimir Putin wants to achieve practically everything in astronautics, but can not bring anything to its logical conclusion. "

Yes, now we can easily say that it is not for the Czechs to evaluate our successes or failures, since they themselves have not created anything in the space industry. However, the fact that all the words about future projects of Roskomos basically end in nothing is fair.

Since 2005, the fuss around the reusable spacecraft has continued. Whether "Eagle", or "Argo" - it is not entirely clear who will be and whether there will be.

Since 1995 the module "Science" has been tormented. It seems that 80% of the checks have been completed, perhaps in 2021 the module will still be launched and docked to the ISS.

There were talks about the beginning of the development of the lunar program, but so far they can not finish the Vostochny cosmodrome. Venus exploration programs don't look serious either.

Beautiful presentations and loud statements against the background of increasingly obsolete space technologies of the mid-20th century, laid down by the Soviet pioneers of space exploration - this is not a space superpower. These are just empty statements that are worthless and have little value.

In general, throwing from the Moon to Venus, unsupported by anything, is the current reality of Russian cosmonautics.

The lack of a clear plan and clear leadership makes the situation similar to the American one, in which everything depends on the personal attitude of the incumbent president to the space program. In Russia, however, everything depends on several other components.

From this, one can draw a conclusion that is not very pleasant for Russia and the United States: in the near future, China, which has a clear strategy and the ability to fulfill its plans, will be able to become the undisputed leader in space exploration. And this applies not only to the lunar research program.

The Moon can be declared a US zone of influence. But will the satellite of the planet make it an American territory, if Chinese ships and automatic stations fly there?
Author:
160 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. 7,62x54
    7,62x54 9 February 2021 11: 11
    +17
    "There is no time to swing, we still have a lot of work to do. Together ... well-being ..."
    1. Civil
      Civil 9 February 2021 11: 56
      +31
      1. The Communist Party of the PRC for 1 generation has brought the country to the world leaders in terms of living standards.
      2. Socialist planning has made it possible to become a world leader in the economy.
      3. Space is developing at the pace of the USSR, and soon Tianven-1 will fly to Mars.
      4. And one capitalist country 3 of the world is in decline ... has dropped in terms of income in Africa.


      PS: Having invested billions of dollars in its space sector, the United States will not lose anything, the owners of the enterprises will not exchange the received dollars into Iranian rials and will not enter them into the banks of Tehran.
      1. Israel
        Israel 9 February 2021 12: 47
        -12%
        1. The Communist Party of the PRC for 1 generation has brought the country to the world leaders in terms of living standards.

        No, they have not taken out, at least 500 million Chinese live in conditions of improbable poverty, lack of access to education, medicine in terrible sanitary conditions even by the standards of third world countries

        2. Socialist planning has made it possible to become a world leader in the economy.

        And here the mistake, the whole success of the Chinese economy, is that the capitalists, mainly from the USA, began to stir up their production in China using cheap labor, low requirements for working conditions and the environment.
        Well, China only calls itself socialist, in fact, they have capitalism of the most terry type with merciless exploitation.

        3. Space is developing at the pace of the USSR, and soon Tianven-1 will fly to Mars.

        It is quite possible.

        4. And one capitalist country 3 in the world in decline ... fell in terms of income to Africa ..

        But at the same time, everything is exactly higher than in China.
        1. Nasrat
          Nasrat 9 February 2021 13: 14
          -7
          it is necessary to save (until the time) this article, with these comments ... tongue
          The epic and commentary match ...
        2. Odysseus
          Odysseus 9 February 2021 13: 23
          +25
          Quote: Israel
          But at the same time, everything is exactly higher than in China.

          The RF minimum wage is $ 174. The minimum wage of the PRC is 384 dollars. The average salary in the PRC is 75000 rubles, that is, 1,7 times more than in the Russian Federation. Despite the fact that real salaries in the Russian Federation are 15-25 thousand, the teacher's rate is, say, 10800. Most of the citizens of the Russian Federation are absolutely poor by the standards of China, there are no such salaries in principle.
          Quote: Israel
          And here the mistake, the whole success of the Chinese economy, is that the capitalists, mainly from the USA, began to stir up their production in China using cheap labor, low requirements for working conditions and the environment.

          Firstly: not all the success, this is only one of the factors, and secondly, this was true for the 80-90s, now this agitation can only cause laughter.
          Quote: Israel
          Well, China only calls itself socialist, in fact, they have capitalism of the most terry type with merciless exploitation.

          And this is even more stupid propaganda, and even more ancient times. In the 60s-70s, many books were written in the USSR where it was proved that there was no socialism in the PRC, then they turned everything over and began to say that under Mao there was "communism", and now capitalism. The Chinese laugh when they read such "inferences".
          Quote: Israel
          No, they have not taken out, at least 500 million Chinese live in conditions of unrealistic poverty,

          You write 5 billion, why should you feel sorry for their adversaries laughing
          1. Israel
            Israel 9 February 2021 13: 39
            -4
            The RF minimum wage is $ 174. The minimum wage of the PRC is 384 dollars. The average salary in the PRC is 75000 rubles, that is, 1,7 times more than in the Russian Federation. Despite the fact that real salaries in the Russian Federation are 15-25 thousand, the teacher's rate is, say, 10800. Most of the citizens of the Russian Federation are absolutely poor by the standards of China, there are no such salaries in principle.

            My relative has a business in China, a shoe factory, so here's first-hand information, the salary of a master in the price of Russian money is about one hundred thousand rubles, and now working conditions, a day off once a month and a half (used to be once a month), working day 12-14 hours, no social services. guarantees, paid vacation, etc. And now calculate how much you will have to pay in Russia under such conditions (and is it even possible)


            Firstly: not all the success, this is only one of the factors, and secondly, this was true for the 80-90s, now this agitation can only cause laughter.


            Well, he knows the Russian proverb about laughter for no reason, who is against laughing.


            And this is even more stupid propaganda, and even more ancient times. In the 60s-70s, many books were written in the USSR where it was proved that there was no socialism in the PRC, then they turned everything over and began to say that under Mao there was "communism", and now capitalism. The Chinese laugh when they read such "inferences".



            The Chinese do not whimper, but they know very well that neither capitalism, since they create private companies, hire workers, private individuals own the means of production and retain added value for themselves. In addition to this, children are exploited in production, even at one time iPhones were collected by children, until it was opened and it became toxic for Apple.

            You write 5 billion, why should you feel sorry for their adversaries


            Not all the same 500 million, with a population of 1.4 billion in China, which surprises you so much.
        3. Svarog
          Svarog 9 February 2021 13: 24
          +18
          No, they have not taken out, at least 500 million Chinese live in conditions of improbable poverty, lack of access to education, medicine in terrible sanitary conditions even by the standards of third world countries


          For reference. China has held the world record in poverty eradication over the past ten years. This statement was made by UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres in Munich at a security conference. He clarified that over the past 30 years, more than 700 million Chinese have ceased to be poor.
          Source: https://visasam.ru/emigration/asia/bednost-v-kitae.html

          There is no need to catch up with horror here .. the Chinese have such a dynamic that not one state in the world dreamed of .. I will not say anything about Russia at all.
          And here the mistake, the whole success of the Chinese economy, is that the capitalists, mainly from the USA, began to stir up their production in China using cheap labor, low requirements for working conditions and the environment.

          Exactly the same with us, but here for some reason the capitalists do not place anything .. probably they are afraid that they will steal everything? And the problem is with the ecology .. But the salary we already have much less ..

          But at the same time, everything is exactly higher than in China.

          Not for long with such dynamics.
          1. Bolt cutter
            Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 15: 13
            -4
            China holds world record for poverty eradication
            Neither has a GDP per capita at the level of the Caribbean. They bypassed Turkmenistan and came close to that of Guyana.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 9 February 2021 19: 32
              +3
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              Neither has a GDP per capita at the level of the Caribbean. They bypassed Turkmenistan and came close to that of Guyana.

              Well, they overtook Guyana a long time ago. In more understandable coordinates, they are at par between Bulgaria and Romania. Yes, the poorest EU countries, but still the EU.
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 19: 40
                -2
                Well, they overtook Guyana a long time ago
                IMF disagrees with you. World Bank (he put them in 2019 just above Barabados) too. And only the Ministry of Economy of China does not agree with them belay
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 9 February 2021 19: 51
                  +4
                  Quote: Bolt Cutter
                  IMF disagrees with you. World Bank (he put them in 2019 just above Barabados)

                  You are completely lying. That is how they put China, between Bulgaria and Romania. As for Barbados, it is a relatively wealthy country, between Poland and Greece. It would be reasonable to reconsider your attitude to the Caribbean countries as to savages with beads, among them there are quite safe places by the standards of Eastern Europe.
                  1. Bolt cutter
                    Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 19: 55
                    -3
                    You are completely lying
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita Читайте
                    As for Barbados, it is a relatively wealthy country, between Poland and Greece
                    Botswana ranked higher than Poland tongue
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 9 February 2021 19: 59
                      +4
                      Quote: Bolt Cutter
                      countries_by_GDP_ (PPP) _per_capita

                      I said "at par." According to PPP, the US Federal State Statistics Service will overtake you in a week.
                      1. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 20: 02
                        -4
                        I said "at par"
                        You borrow tricks from the Chinese tongue In Denmark, earnings are 20 euros per hour, but this is the price of coffee with a roll. Everything is relative.
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 9 February 2021 21: 10
                        +5
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        In Denmark, earnings are 20 euros per hour, but this is the price of coffee with a roll. Everything is relative.

                        I haven't been to Denmark, I won't lie. But wherever I have been (from the Schengen countries, I have not been to 5, it seems) - food prices are at the level of Moscow or lower. Except for Switzerland. So no, stories about the teaching staff will not work.
                      3. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 22: 16
                        -6
                        So no, stories about the teaching staff will not work.
                        Clearly Chinese school laughing I don't know how it is in Moscow now (I doubt that it is cheaper in France and Belgium smile ), but Denmark is just an example. A hundred bucks in different countries will buy different things, so when assessing the quality of life, this factor should be evaluated.
                      4. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 10 February 2021 06: 09
                        +9
                        Yes, and much of what you can buy for 100 euros in most European countries you will not buy in Russia at all. There are also examples in the Russian direction, I will not lie. For example, when I was in Munich for the first time, the metro for 3 euros was unpleasantly struck. Yes, this is a single ticket, the travel card is cheaper, but nonetheless. I came to Munich from Prague, the metro there is less than euros, like in Moscow.

                        It is widely known that a huge percentage of the consumer market in Russia is covered by imports. This also applies to food, and primarily industrial goods. Where, in this situation, this most notorious superiority in the teaching staff can come from is not difficult to understand. 1. The difference in quality - for a considerable part of Russian "food", for example, in Europe, an importer would just sit down. 2. Pure cheating. If in Russia cars are sold mainly for 10K, and in America - for 30K, then it is concluded that the PPP of the dollar in America is 3 times less than in Russia - you can buy 3 times more cars in Russia for the same amount dollars, compared to America.

                        But there is a small nuance.

                      5. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 10 February 2021 12: 59
                        -4
                        Pure cheating. If in Russia cars are sold mainly for 10K, and in America - for 30K,
                        The formula for calculating the PPP is more complicated and takes this into account as well. In Russia (not in Moscow / Sochi), real estate and services are cheaper. And import in Europe is a significant part of the market.
                      6. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 10 February 2021 22: 06
                        +4
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        And import in Europe is a significant part of the market.

                        Yes, although much less than in Russia. Imports make PPPs in different countries similar, minus the level of duties and indirect taxes.
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        In Russia (not in Moscow / Sochi), real estate and services are cheaper.

                        Real estate not in Moscow / Sochi may be cheaper, but who needs it outside of Moscow? It is rather strange to compare the standard of living not in Moscow and in some Lombardy, I think. By the standards of Moscow, real estate prices are more than moderate, except for the branches of hell like London. As for services, there are examples in both directions, but the poorer a person, the less the share of services in his expenses.
                        Quote: Bolt Cutter
                        The formula for calculating PPP is more complicated

                        The formula for calculating PPPs is that anyone can count anything. PPP is considered by exactly the same people who consider the cost of living at 11 rubles.
                      7. Bolt cutter
                        Bolt cutter 10 February 2021 23: 11
                        -2
                        By the standards of Moscow, real estate prices are more than moderate, with the exception of hell's branches like London.
                        So Moscow should be compared with London, Vienna, etc. You will not believe, and people live outside the Moscow Ring Road. And for the M25. The statistics of all include and consider.
                        PPP is considered by exactly the same people who consider the cost of living at 11 rubles.
                        What, they have their own in the IMF statistics department too wassat In any case, I do not intend to slide into verbiage after you.
            2. TANKISTONE
              TANKISTONE 13 February 2021 01: 40
              -1
              Bolt Cutter (Alex) In Denmark, earnings are 20 euros per hour, but this is the price of coffee with a roll.
              More per hour than the "locomotive" of Europe - Germany? I am a rogue .., although coffee (a glass of cardboard) 0,45-1,5 (€), + bun, the same amount (€), if not in a super-duper cafe-restaurant. "Average statistical" statistics is still not an indicator at all, but a distortion of reality!
            3. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 13 February 2021 10: 56
              -2
              More per hour than the "locomotive" of Europe - Germany
              Yes. In several EU countries, salaries are higher than in Germany. But, as a rule, it is more expensive to live there. A cafe in the center of Copenhagen, very good - I don't go to jihad cafes with blacks.
            4. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 14 February 2021 00: 41
              +1
              You have a rather peculiar interlocutor. He seems to be a Russian-speaking Latvian who has been living in Western Europe since his school years (Britain is often mentioned, sometimes France), but he is most active on the topics "Navalny" and "Ukraine", which is somewhat strange for a British (or is it already Danish? world) Latvian. It is no less strange to see in a self-styled European a penchant for Russian thugs humor.

              Of course, he whistled about coffee for 20 euros in polemical fervor, and now puffs out his cheeks. I can't say for sure - I have never been to Denmark - but such prices can be found in top tourist or especially pretentious places. That is, "Is there coffee in Copenhagen for 20 euros?" - yes, it happens, "Is it possible to compare this price with the price in the Russian Starbucks and rub about PPP?" - of course not. The Dutch, German and Swedish lidles did not surprise me with anything in terms of prices. It would be strange to have some kind of price anomaly in Denmark, usually only Norway and Switzerland are distinguished in terms of prices.

              As for the salary - firstly, Denmark is not included in the euro area. Secondly, there is no state minimum salary - it is coordinated, speaking in Russian, by the trade unions. Now it is 110 CZK / h, approximately 15 euros. Yes, this is not bad even in comparison with Germany. Average salaries are also relatively high.
            5. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 14 February 2021 11: 31
              0
              You have a rather peculiar interlocutor
              At the moment, this is a kind of interlocutor for me. Shows interest, you know ... Well, than I can - I will help. I left for England at the age of 18, lived a little in Ireland, returned for a short time back to Latvia. My wife was born in France, so I know this country relatively well (in comparison with the local trolls). By nationality- rootless cosmopolitan with two passports Russian Baltic. In Ukraine (still Soviet) lived a little. The topics "Navalny" and "Ukraine" are interesting because in Europe they are also discussed - but from opposite and often abstract positions - and not so often. Coffee with a loaf for 20 euros - in Copenhagen near the bridge. We, I remember, ordered all this, gave the crowns, and then the spouse says - 40 pounds for two - wow. The cafe was ordinary, but in the center. Something like this. More questions?
            6. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 14 February 2021 11: 45
              -1
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              £ 40 for two

              Has the price increased yet? Hell!
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              More questions?

              I don't think I had any questions for you, thank you.
            7. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 14 February 2021 12: 01
              -2
              I don't think I had any questions for you
              Correctly - dive quietly behind your back.
              Has the price increased yet? Hell!
              It was like in 2016. I had to clarify the details.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 10 February 2021 17: 08
    +3
    I have been to Barbados twice. In 2011 and early 2020. People live there badly. Blacks live horribly in Botswana. And the statistics there are good at the expense of several thousand rich whites who have not yet escaped. You are not looking at statistics, but what is the real quality of life. Life in Poland is much better than on another planet.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 10 February 2021 17: 14
      -1
      Life in Poland is much better than on another planet
      It is quite the average European standard of living in Poland, and the Caribbean basin (with the level of China) is far from them. But best of all is in communist China laughing There's planning and the Party wassat
  • Bolt cutter
    Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 19: 59
    -3
    there are places that are quite safe by the standards of Eastern Europe.
    Have you ever been? Except for tiny offshore islets, there is practically black Africa and they are far from Europe. Although if Moldova is Georgia and Ukraine's Europe, then yes.
  • TANKISTONE
    TANKISTONE 13 February 2021 01: 31
    -1
    Svarog (Vladimir) UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres
    "Authoritative" dude, no words. I wonder who writes his cheat sheets?
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 9 February 2021 13: 38
    +18
    But at the same time, everything is exactly higher than in China.


    The average salary in China in 2021 is 5995 yuan. This figure rises by about $ 50-70 every year.

    So we have already lagged behind in salaries too.
  • Aleksandr21
    Aleksandr21 9 February 2021 13: 52
    +11
    Quote: Israel

    No, they have not taken out, at least 500 million Chinese live in conditions of improbable poverty, lack of access to education, medicine in terrible sanitary conditions even by the standards of third world countries


    And how much was before 2000? China in 2021 and China in 2000 is just heaven and earth, the standard of living has increased, and very seriously, and the largest megacities of the PRC are in no way inferior to the Western ones (in terms of income, access to medicine, education, etc.), and there is still a stratification between the poor The North and the rich South, but the changes that have taken place in just a few decades are very impressive. And according to the CCP:

    The last nine Chinese counties still on the poor list were removed from the list by Chinese officials on Nov.23, Xinhua reported.

    The Guizhou provincial government announced that the last nine poor counties have eradicated absolute poverty. The average annual income of poor people in these nine counties rose to 11 yuan (about 487 rubles), far above the national poverty line of 132 yuan set this year, officials said.

    China has pledged to eradicate absolute poverty in the country by the end of 2020. As of the end of 2019, 52 counties in the northwest, southwest, and south of the country remained poor.

    “The exclusion of all the poor counties shows that China has solved the millennial problem of extreme poverty,” said Gao Gang, a researcher at the Guizhou Academy of Social Sciences. According to the scientist, having eradicated poverty, China has entered a new phase of development.


    it is clear that such statements should be divided by 2 (at best), but the process is underway ... but where there is really poverty, with a huge population, it is in India ...


    Quote: Israel
    And here the mistake, the whole success of the Chinese economy, is that the capitalists, mainly from the USA, began to stir up their production in China using cheap labor, low requirements for working conditions and the environment.


    Previously, yes, but over the past decade, labor in China has become far from cheap) + production and product quality have reached a completely different level. Of course, the PRC borrowed, stole, bought many technologies ... but the main thing is the result.

    Moreover, according to forecasts, Goldman Sachs economy of the PRC will very soon overtake the US economy.

    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 15: 16
      -9
      China in 2021 and China in 2000 is just heaven and earth, the standard of living has increased, and very seriously
      For 5 weeks spurt wassat ?
      1. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 9 February 2021 16: 10
        +6
        Quote: Bolt Cutter
        A breakthrough in 5 weeks?


        Actually, it's 21 years old (well, or 20, considering that 21 has just begun) :) I just took the year 2000 as a reference, to show a comparison of that China and the present. You can of course take any years, 1970-1980 (so for comparison) or 30-50s when the Soviet Union provided economic (and not only) assistance to China .... what was the PRC then? A poor country, with a poor population: you don't have to talk about education, medicine and other spheres, and what country is it now? 2 the world's economy, according to some indicators in general 1. A country whose half of the world borrows money ... and where the standard of living, in large cities, is in no way inferior to the Western world) of course, poverty exists, especially in the North, but in general, over these several decades China has changed a lot ...
        1. Bolt cutter
          Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 16: 22
          -7
          2 world economy, according to some indicators in general 1.
          There are just a LOT of them. Finland cannot afford an aircraft carrier - there are only 5 million of them. But each of these millions is much richer than the average Chinese.
          the standard of living in large cities is in no way inferior to the Western world
          The Chinese themselves clearly do not know this, they are going to live in the Western world. Often illegal.
          1. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 9 February 2021 17: 05
            +6
            Quote: Bolt Cutter
            There are just a LOT of them. Finland cannot afford an aircraft carrier - there are only 5 million of them. But each of these millions is much richer than the average Chinese.


            I agree that there are quite a few countries in the world where the standard of living exceeds that of China (in general), mostly small Western countries that have good income (from business, from banking, or from the sale of natural resources, etc.) but if we do not take GDP per capita, but simply compare the amount ... then I think in China there will be 200-300 million people who, in terms of income and quality of life (medicine, education, etc.), are comparable to these 5-4 millions of Finns (considering that there is also poverty in Finland, and the incomes of the population are different ...). Even in Russia, there is a layer of people, not even the middle class, but let's say above the middle class ... who have 2-3 cars (foreign cars) each, have good real estate, they have access to high-quality medicine and good education + have the opportunity, go to the EU to relax / shop, etc. it's another matter that in comparison with other groups of the population there are few of them ...

            The Chinese themselves clearly do not know this, they are going to live in the Western world. Often illegal.


            There is certainly migration, but what is this%? In the same Chinese megalopolises: Chongqing, Shenzhen, Shanghai, Tianjin, or in the same Guangzhou, the standard of living is very high and leave everything and go to the West ... why? There I can understand (part of) the population of Hong Kong, to whom the UK distributes passports ... and who are going to the West, but expectations and reality can be so different ...
            1. Bolt cutter
              Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 17: 10
              -8
              Shanghai, Tianjin or in the same Guangzhou, the standard of living is very high and give up everything and go to the West ... why
              Perhaps the fact is that the Chinese themselves know (better than the local sinophiles) how well they live in large cities of China (and there are also small ones) and not so much, apparently the level is high. In 2010, in terms of GDP, China is slightly behind Guyana. Outstripped wealthy and successful Turkmenistan good ... Do you know that you have to pay for each kilometer of road in China? OK. 7 rubles like. You also have to pay for primary school.
              if we take not GDP per capita, but simply the quantity, compare
              Then it's just the result of the lottery - who was born to whom. The average Chinese does not live very well (see GDP)
              1. Bolt cutter
                Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 17: 54
                -5
                ... In 2010 by GDP
                In 2020, a mistake.
              2. Maki Avellevich
                Maki Avellevich 10 February 2021 07: 33
                +4
                Quote: Bolt Cutter
                Do you know that you have to pay for each kilometer of road in China? OK. 7 rubles like. You also have to pay for primary school.

                Well, this is completely on the Marxist. where is socialism Zin?
            2. Israel
              Israel 9 February 2021 18: 32
              +1
              Western countries that have good income (from business, from banking, or from the sale of natural resources, etc.)

              And also, from high-tech products, for example, there is a "modest" Dutch company ASML, while the largest manufacturer of photolithographic systems for the microelectronic industry.
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 9 February 2021 19: 36
      -2
      Quote: Aleksandr21
      Goldman Sachs, the PRC economy will very soon overtake the US economy.

      1. When he overtakes, then we'll talk. Many people promised to catch up and overtake the US economy.
      2. Overtake in the same sense in which Nigeria overtakes Austria, and Russia overtakes South Korea. On the shaft.
      1. Aleksandr21
        Aleksandr21 9 February 2021 19: 48
        +2
        Quote: Cherry Nine
        1. When he overtakes, then we'll talk. Many people promised to catch up and overtake the US economy.
        2. Overtake in the same sense in which Nigeria overtakes Austria, and Russia overtakes South Korea. On the shaft.


        So China is already breathing in the back of the USA (in terms of GDP nominal), and in terms of GDP PPP it is in 1st place, the USA is in 2nd place. This is a matter of time (and in the near future), the market of 1,4 billion people is clearly larger than the US market of 329 million people, and it would be fine if China was at the level of Nigeria, but no, it is getting richer and developing ... imagine the potential of the service sector in China with such a large population ... but the service sector in the United States simply has nowhere to grow, like Europe by the way ...
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 9 February 2021 19: 57
          +2
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          So China is already breathing in the back of the United States (at GDP nominal)

          One third.
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          GDP PPP it is in 1st place

          According to the PPP, let it fly to the moon at least.
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          The market of 1,4 billion people is clearly larger than the US market of 329 million people.

          Pakistan - 212 million people, Finland - 5,5 million people. So what?
          Quote: Aleksandr21
          but the service sector in the United States has nowhere to grow, like Europe, by the way ...

          So far it worked. As for the EU - this is completely ridiculous, the average GDP per person in the EU is half the average American one.
    3. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 11 February 2021 16: 19
      -1
      According to the CIA, and they can be trusted in this case, China is in first place in terms of GDP. Moreover, they compare the GDP at PPP, calling it real.
  • astepanov
    astepanov 9 February 2021 19: 04
    +1
    Quote: Israel
    But at the same time, everything is exactly higher than in China.

    Compare the growth rates: even in a pandemic, China is growing economically, and at a rate that we did not have in all the post-perestroika years, but we have been marking time for six years now - and there is no glimpse. Does anyone doubt that China will overtake us in per capita income in the short term? I have no doubt.
  • Keyser soze
    Keyser soze 9 February 2021 13: 29
    -4
    The Communist Party of the PRC for 1 generation has brought the country to the world leaders in terms of living standards.


    What nonsense ... have you ever seen the classification according to the standard of living?!? There Singapore, Switzerland, Scandinavia ... and China was not even close. For all economic classifications, China is a developing country and the standard of living is lower than in Russia. And GDP per capita is lower than in Russia, probably. Didn't look soon ...
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 11 February 2021 16: 24
      0
      Data from the same CIA website:
      $ 14,327,359,000,000 (2019 est.)

      note: because China's exchange rate is determined by fiat rather than by market forces, the official exchange rate measure of GDP is not an accurate measure of China's output; GDP at the official exchange rate substantially understates the actual level of China's output vis-a-vis the rest of the world; in China's situation, GDP at purchasing power parity provides the best measure for comparing output across countries

      TRANSFER
      $ 14,327,359,000,000 (2019 est.)

      note: since China's exchange rate is determined by fiat and not market forces, the official GDP exchange rate is not an accurate measure of China's output; GDP at the official exchange rate significantly underestimates China's actual output compared to the rest of the world; in China's situation, GDP at purchasing power parity provides the best indicator for comparing output between countries.
  • kudma
    kudma 9 February 2021 13: 36
    -4
    Yes, yes, the Chinese so clever flew to the moon in the 21st century, but you forgot that the rest flew there 50 years ago, when all the calculations were done using a ruler and computers on lamps and not using modern technology. Invented the bicycle
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 9 February 2021 13: 48
      +18
      And what does the state of the Russian Federation have to do with the rest, who "flew there 50 years ago"? Does he have something to brag about?
      1. kudma
        kudma 9 February 2021 14: 01
        -11%
        Did I really say something about Russia? Well, since you touched on this topic, I will say that Russia was the basis of the USSR, and the rest of the states were essentially suckers with rare exceptions, which only pulled money in return without giving anything.
        1. zenion
          zenion 9 February 2021 15: 05
          +4
          The basis of the USSR was the Bolshevik Party. The Bolsheviks managed to collect this from the pieces of the former Soviet empire. The fact that the Russian Federative Socialist Republic was the largest in area is again the merit of the Bolsheviks. After all, had it not been for the Bolsheviks, there would not have been in present-day Russia a piece from the Far East to the Urals, which the whites sold to America and Japan. There would be no north that was sold to the Americans. There would be no Caucasus and Krasnodar Territory that were sold to the British. There would be no Ukraine, no south, no west, which retreated to the French and Germans with the Poles. And now the principality of Moscow would remain from Russia. You have forgotten the Civil War and the fact that the Bolsheviks won in it, who created a great country out of shit. Now it has been turned into a country that was before the start of the civil war. That is, feudalism, an appendage of imperialism. We need to start every morning prayer in Russia with the words of thanks to the USSR for making us protected.
          1. kudma
            kudma 9 February 2021 15: 44
            -6
            You don't know what would happen! But you say that you would definitely sell everything. Have you been through the looking glass or in a parallel universe? Stop carrying the blizzard!
            1. zenion
              zenion 9 February 2021 16: 03
              +4
              Not that it was, but it was. If literate read about the Civil War and the intervention, where the troops of the interventionists were at that time. Roma, don't pull your hair out. In Odessa they say so - don't pull your hair, take your hands out of your pockets.
        2. parma
          parma 9 February 2021 16: 04
          +5
          Quote: kudma
          Did I really say something about Russia? Well, since you touched on this topic, I will say that Russia was the basis of the USSR, and the rest of the states were essentially suckers with rare exceptions, which only pulled money in return without giving anything.

          Empty words, invented in the 90s by the environment of one person who drinks a lot ... now a new bike - Moscow builds itself, feeds and dresses ... itself, only money from federal ...
        3. Venya Selnikov
          Venya Selnikov 20 February 2021 13: 46
          0
          It was this position that led to the fact that after the collapse of the USSR nothing new happened. Moreover, if this position "who is in charge here and who is in the secondary roles" will continue, there are risks of further dispersal. And it will be impossible to restrain it by force forever.
      2. Cosm22
        Cosm22 9 February 2021 14: 32
        +11
        You need to carefully read at least the title of the article. To understand its essence.
        And the point is that the author asks the question about the place of modern Russia in the world cosmonautics.
        Historical moments in terms of the disappeared state of the USSR, the Battle of Kulikovo or the invasion of the Polovtsy and Pechenegs are not touched upon in the article.
        We are talking about today and tomorrow of the space industry. For Russia.
  • mag nit
    mag nit 9 February 2021 11: 13
    -13%
    What do they share? Lunar rubble?
    1. Doccor18
      Doccor18 9 February 2021 11: 30
      +11
      Quote: mag nit
      What do they share? Lunar rubble?

      Space as a catalyst for the development of science, which will then develop the economy. Space is not only interesting from a scientific, but also from a defense point of view. Who knows, if it is possible to reduce the cost of launches into orbit, then it is not far from the colonization of the Moon ...
      How many years have they been talking about helium-3 from the lunar surface? It doesn't look like science fiction anymore.
      1. Mikhail m
        Mikhail m 9 February 2021 12: 15
        +4
        Quote: Doccor18
        How many years have they been talking about helium-3 from the lunar surface? It doesn't look like science fiction anymore.

        The helium-3 talk looks very nice. In theory. Well, in practice, there is no technology for its use, and is not expected in the near future. It looks like we are actively sharing the skin of an unkilled bear. Scientific research on the Moon is promising and necessary, but commercial applications are not yet in sight.
      2. Israel
        Israel 9 February 2021 12: 50
        0
        , then it's not far from the colonization of the Moon ...

        Why colonize it, like Mars and any other planets, this is the lot of robots, poking around in the soil of the planets. We have not so many places on Earth that are not inhabited, despite the fact that the conditions in these places are simply incomparably better for colonization than on the Moon, Mars and any planet available to us.
        1. Berber
          Berber 9 February 2021 13: 28
          -5
          Quote: Israel
          , then it's not far from the colonization of the Moon ...

          Why colonize it, like Mars and any other planets, this is the lot of robots, poking around in the soil of the planets. We have not so many places on Earth that are not inhabited, despite the fact that the conditions in these places are simply incomparably better for colonization than on the Moon, Mars and any planet available to us.


          Thank you Jacob. You are a sober person. The others discuss the colonization of the Moon as if there were not enough problems on Earth. Dreamers.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 9 February 2021 11: 30
      -4
      Quote: mag nit
      What do they share? Lunar rubble?

      You need to search, maybe they will find something you need, except for rubble. Forward explorers of the Lunar Klondike.
    3. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 9 February 2021 11: 49
      +2
      Quote: mag nit
      Lunar rubble?

      Crushed stone still needs to be done! Moon pebbles of the moon seas! laughing
    4. BAI
      BAI 9 February 2021 13: 28
      +2
      It is believed that there are entire platinum asteroids in the asteroid belt. But the fact that there is something to look for good is understandable without assumptions. And it is more convenient to explore space from the Lunar base, and not from the Earth base.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 9 February 2021 16: 15
        +3
        "Nuclon" .... "Nuclon" is a nuclear tug on which the great Batutochnik staked .... like this is now "nashfse" .... after the RD-180 ... And everything else is "last century "," a waste of money ", yes.
        1. Lexus
          Lexus 9 February 2021 18: 36
          +5
          The world no longer needs Russian "taxi drivers". All that remains is the disposal of space objects from other successful countries. The nuclear tug was just not enough for these needs. winked

    5. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 10 February 2021 07: 36
      0
      Quote: mag nit
      What do they share? Lunar rubble?

      once in a while civilization needs a "new world". go there and know him.
      if not, then stagnation, collapse, rollback. so that it would be where to develop.

      so either to the moon or to each other mix with the earth and start with the ancient ages.
  • Sergey Obraztsov
    Sergey Obraztsov 9 February 2021 11: 18
    +5
    On the one hand, Rosatom and strategic ICBMs, and on the other, Roskosmos and the Navy. For the work of the first, you feel pride for the country, for the work of the second - hopeless sadness ... So we live.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. tasha
        tasha 9 February 2021 12: 04
        0
        Well, that's what to go far, agree - is this a diagnosis?

        I have to upset you. This is nonsense published on one of the fake news sites.
        Please don't bring this here anymore ...
        1. paul3390
          paul3390 9 February 2021 12: 07
          +10
          Knowing about the real activities of this madam - I would not be surprised if this is actually true. And if it is a fake, then it is not far from the truth. One has only to remember all the laws in this area, inspired by her ..
          1. tasha
            tasha 9 February 2021 12: 10
            0
            My friend, when you repeat someone's stupidity, you involuntarily become a participant in it ..
      2. Svarog
        Svarog 9 February 2021 13: 26
        +7
        I have long said - the Holy Inquisition must be created in the country! Otherwise, it is impossible to explain the activities of our leaders in many areas as the intrigues of the unclean.

        The only question is who it will serve .. now and so create, but it is in the service of capital .. and this is slavery. Inventory is needed by those in power .. and change to the socialists.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 9 February 2021 14: 35
          -3
          And change to socialists. There are none and will not even be Cuba gave complete freedom to private business, as the state cannot cope without it.
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 9 February 2021 14: 51
            +9
            Quote: Vadim237
            And change to socialists. There are none and will not even be Cuba gave complete freedom to private business, as the state cannot cope without it.

            It's not about private business. We are talking about the largest raw material and processing enterprises.
            They only formally now belong to half of the state. And it is necessary that they were fully owned and the income was distributed fairly. Plus a planned economy. And of course the change of all top managers .. and it will go. Let the private business work. He was under Stalin too ..
            1. tasha
              tasha 9 February 2021 15: 32
              -2
              Suddenly. Vladimir, I'm yours, that Vadim's comment can only be approved. A private business, even if it is even by Elon Musk in a cube, will not pull the entire space program. Again, we do not have Ilonov Masks and will not be in the near future.
              I believe that services, trade, small and medium-sized production are in private hands. Space is the task of the state.
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 9 February 2021 15: 35
                +7
                Quote: tasha
                Now I think that there should be - services, trade, small and medium production - in private hands. Space is the task of the state.

                And not only space. Although space and any major industries should be closely monitored by the state. Space gives the development of science, which in turn should push industry ... (if we had it)
                Unexpectedly

                What is it?
                1. tasha
                  tasha 9 February 2021 15: 43
                  0
                  You see, Vladimir, I got the impression from your comments that you don't treat businessmen very well ..
                  1. Ross xnumx
                    Ross xnumx 9 February 2021 19: 03
                    0
                    Quote: tasha
                    that you don't treat businessmen very well ..

                    He does not treat businessmen badly, he cannot stand effective managers trying to portray vigorous activity and applied creativity. Space exploration a priori cannot be a private trader's program. There are cases of unsuccessful launches (and this is without people), but what if with a crew?
                    Only the state program allows:
                    Quote: Svarog
                    Space gives the development of sciencewhich in turn should push the industry ..

                    The state can use the achievements of "private companies" if they are much ahead of the development of state corporations.
                    Although, what kind of development should be discussed, if the head is a "manager", whose goal is "to cut more dough for the position."
      3. Kunich
        Kunich 10 February 2021 12: 56
        +1
        Actually, this is trolling from IA Panorama, and you are here trying to pass off such heresy as the pure truth. There are two options: either a lack of critical thinking (to put it mildly), or deliberate misleading.
  • SaLaR
    SaLaR 9 February 2021 11: 21
    +15
    Soviet space is over ............. recourse Forward for the trampolines ..... wassat
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 February 2021 14: 39
      -6
      So they are in operation Angara A5 Soyuz 5 SV wing Eagle Amur LNG Yenisei during this decade most of this will definitely fly the second stage of the Eastern one will be completed and by 2030 the nuclear power plant will fly.
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 9 February 2021 11: 24
    +1
    A seed for a race in space exploration. You look the Russian Federation will lead, undermining its own economy. The US will still announce the militarization of the Moon as a protected "property". Colaps.
  • ximkim
    ximkim 9 February 2021 11: 28
    +5
    Space exploration programs depend on capital investment and a clear understanding of the objectives. The Chinese have everything in order with this (they do it silently). Then everything depends on the approach. Woz take VVP, judging by his statements - he does not have a clear attitude. Rogozin only thinks .. and it’s not clear what he’s thinking .. if you don’t listen to their statements, but just visit Samara, you will immediately see how the profile organizations and the government are in the mood for space exploration.
  • Pavel73
    Pavel73 9 February 2021 11: 29
    +5
    We have no choice but to catch up with the USSR. Luna-25, the first lunar station after a long hiatus, is due to launch this year. It makes no sense to launch "Science" to the ISS, it would be more logical to use it for a new domestic station of Salyut-7 dimension. "Orlofederation" is not needed either for the Moon or for a near-earth station, it is too expensive and redundant. It would be better to develop a new transport ship for three or four people on the Soyuz base, without a utility compartment, but with a reusable descent vehicle. And it should be launched on the Soyuz-2 launch vehicle, and in the long term - on the new Soyuz-7 methane launch vehicle. That is, its mass should not exceed 8 tons. Heavier manned ships are unaffordable luxury for us. The Angara is not a very successful rocket, but we have no other rocket for geostationary orbit. Therefore, we will have to build it up with hydrogen. With its help, it will be possible to more or less decently make the Moon and other planets with automatic interplanetary stations. As well as a manned near-earth station. It will also be possible to fly a manned flight around the Moon on a modified Soyuz in a single launch or a flight to a circumlunar orbit in a double launch. The four-launch moon landing is a perversion, but it works for a single flag stick.
    For commercial, military, economic use and possible international cooperation on the moon, it is necessary to create Soyuz-5, which will replace Angara in the future. It will be possible to install a hydrogen booster block to launch satellites into geostationary orbit, then a hydrogen second stage (both from the Angara), then convert it to methane, and then the lunar super-heavy can be made from several rocket blocks. If you have someone to cooperate with, of course;)
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 9 February 2021 12: 11
      +20
      A few comments.
      What concept can be used to build a Russian OS? How will it look like? How to build your OS? From scratch? Use old ISS "bricks" and add new ones? It makes no sense to take old stuff from the ISS, already now the Russian segment of the ISS is bursting at the seams and poisoning the air. Take nove? It will not work to mold the OS from the modules "Science", "Pitch" and "NEM", there will not be enough architectural elements, even the development of gateways will take a lot of time. I can describe in detail why the construction of a ROS is impossible for any of the options. But I will limit myself to one argument: there is simply no money for this. Russia cannot afford such a project financially. Or it will stretch it not even for years - for decades.
      As for the rest, it all depends on the lack of technology.
      Russia does not have a third stage using hydrogen. Not for Angara, not for anyone else. And without it, climbing the GSO or getting to the Moon with a decent load is problematic, not to mention the lunar orbit. The technologies of hydrogen engines created for Energy are irretrievably lost. Purely theoretically (why not dream?) Can be used to output the PN from LEO to the target upper stage. But the trouble is that there are no RB-hydrogen plants either.
      All noteworthy Russian RBs operate on a pair of "heptyl-amyl". Frigate, Breeze and others. RB family DM - kerosene stoves. RB Perseus - version RB 11S861 - kerosene.
      The only thing that really happened on hydrogen so far is RB 12 KRB. So he does not plow with us, with the Indians on the GSLV PH.
      RB KVTK in the process of birth, when the birth will take place - even Rogozin does not know. But obviously not tomorrow.
      As for the RD-0150 for the third stage of the Angara-A5V, it is characterized by one word - it is being developed. There is nothing more to add, given the traditional Russian shifts to the right in time.
      By the way, there is to take the successes of China in this direction (which seems to be always licking something from Russia), then in December last year it successfully launched the CZ-8 (Long March 8) launch vehicle with five satellites. Hydrogen is successfully used in the carrier; in addition, the design of the first stage provides for its reuse. We are waiting for multiple landings.
      1. Pavel73
        Pavel73 9 February 2021 12: 32
        +1
        The concept of the new OS is simple, and not invented by me: one maximum two modules. This is the only chance to preserve manned space exploration - what we still can do. Blinding from existing, but not yet running modules - yes, there is no other way. Gateways - yes, you also have to do it. As for finances, if Russia does not pull even that, then it won’t pull more, and even more so. Hydrogen must be done, whether you want it or not. Without it, we have no replacement for Proton.

        The point is that we do not have this, and this must be done now. There is enough money in the country, there is only no clear concept of space - this is what the government now requires from scientists. So as not to lose what is available, but also not to go broke on Wishlist. Well, you can, of course, fold the legs and do nothing. Then we'll lose everything.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 9 February 2021 13: 21
          +12
          If you think about it, the future of Russian manned astronautics is in general a big question. Already today.
          If technical problems on the ISS continue to widen (especially in the Russian segment, from where air is already leaking from), then the station may end its life even earlier than 2024. And then the question between the countries participating in the project will inevitably become: what to do next?
          With the United States, everything is clear: they have two lunar programs in priority - in the mid-20s, the practical implementation of the Gateway project in the orbit of the Moon was announced, and by the 30th year - the Artemis project. In addition, it is planned to build a small commercial OS in low orbit.
          Private traders will not be in flight either. Bezos will take tourists to New Shepard (albeit a suborbit, but still ...), his New Glenn will attach somewhere NASA. Musk will find use of Falcon Heavy and Falcon-9 without NASA. He has real space tourism and lunar logistics capabilities (even without Starship).
          European ISS partners will join the Gateway program.
          China stands apart. Despite the brilliant lunar successes, his priority is still the Earth OS. Its construction will start this year, and it should be finished by the 23rd. For manned astronautics - a sea of ​​activities.
          But what should Russia do? In the plane of manned astronautics? After the death of the ISS? Where to fly? What for?
          Well, there may be a couple of extreme tourists. What else?
          The lunar theme disappears. Under the Moon there is neither a manned spacecraft, nor a launch vehicle for it.
          ROS? But if you make a station based on the minimal architecture, then why? The field for scientific research will also be automatically narrowed to a minimum; moreover, most of the scientific research over the decades of the existence of various low-support stations has already been completed. Doing only in order to do? I don't know ... The practical use of such an OS is highly questionable.
          1. Pavel73
            Pavel73 9 February 2021 13: 27
            +1
            Yes, alas. To do just to be. Not to lose what we can do. This will allow us to preserve our competence in the field of manned astronautics until better times. That is, until the political squabbles are over and international cooperation is possible again. On the same moon, for example.
          2. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 9 February 2021 23: 44
            0
            Quote: Cosm22
            But what should Russia do?

            Another 5-10 years of current politics and we will start competing with the Turks in space. China and the United States are no longer competitors.
            President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has unveiled Turkey's National Space Program, which he said will lead the country to the top countries in the global space race.

            “Our main and most important goal in the National Space Program is the first contact with the Moon in the 100th anniversary of our republic,” the country's leader said.

            The program, in particular, includes the launch of the Gokturk 3 satellite for high-resolution imaging in any conditions and the country's first national observation satellite Imece. According to President Erdogan, Imece will be launched in 2022.
          3. Aleksandr21
            Aleksandr21 10 February 2021 14: 38
            0
            Quote: Cosm22

            With the United States, everything is clear: they have two lunar programs in priority - in the mid-20s, the practical implementation of the Gateway project in the orbit of the Moon was announced, and by the 30th year - the Artemis project.


            If all the plans still came true, in theory, the Americans should have already jumped on Mars and have their base there, or fly to an asteroid (as Obama bequeathed), but with the advent of the new administration, old plans are scrapped, new ones appear, but SLS still does not. .... the only thing that the Americans really succeeded in is in the machines that really explored and are exploring the Solar System + private traders have great successes ... but globally, as people in Earth's orbit were pushing and pushing, only dates and plans - are carried over. As for our country and its successes, I generally agree with you .... Russia's prospects in terms of space exploration are vague, to put it mildly. ROS is definitely needed to maintain competence in the PC, so that it does not work out like with Luna-25, when we start everything, practically from 0 ... but here, the problem (of building ROS) is not even in technology and funding, but in the absence of political will of the current government. The Kremlin does not understand why Russia needs space, if there is gas / oil, there are geopolitical games, wars ... and space is expensive and does not bring the necessary dividends, but if you set a task and really control the process, then old personnel can be found, remember how the Salutes did and restore what was lost, but it will be expensive, but the alternative is to close the PC in Russia.

            What other options are there? You can create a coalition from non-Western countries (China, India, Turkey, etc.) and create a lunar base on the surface of the moon. But so far the interest of other participants is not visible ... although endless negotiations (with the same China) are going on from time to time.

            And in principle, in terms of manned astronautics, everything ... the road to the Western Coalition is closed (on the Gateway), i.e. They regard Russia as an enemy and competitor, with China the same story ... and then if you don't dance, there will be no sense).
            1. Venya Selnikov
              Venya Selnikov 20 February 2021 14: 02
              0
              the road to the Western Coalition is closed (on the Gateway), i.e. They see Russia as an enemy and competitor, with China the same story
              First of all, we ourselves consider them that way.
              To participate in such programs on an equal footing, first of all, appropriate budgets are needed.
              Which we do not have and are not foreseen.
              And it is not enough to declare the principles of equal participation, as Russia wanted, and invest in money and resources, and everything else is "invaluable experience of the first space power" - now the Chinese will not agree to such principles of "equality" with us.
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 9 February 2021 14: 54
          -2
          "There is enough money in the country." No, far from enough, the wear and tear of all funds in the countries for 89 trillion rubles pulls if the money would really be now at an accelerated pace, all this wear and tear would be eliminated throughout the country, but alas, there are many other acute earthly problems, so it's not up to space epics with races higher stronger on this Roskosmos and the entire space industry have to be content with what they give.
          "In the explanatory note to the draft budget for the implementation of the state program" Space activities of Russia "from 2021 to 2023, it is planned to allocate 577 billion rubles: in 2021 it is planned to allocate 200,17 billion rubles, in 2022 - about 188,68 billion rubles, in 2023 - about 188,18 billion rubles "
      2. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 9 February 2021 19: 12
        +1
        Quote: Cosm22
        What concept can be used to build a Russian OS?

        I am very glad that people started asking similar questions and giving common explanations.
        First and foremost. the Russian OS can be built only by changing the economic formation and by channeling the revenues to the needs and development of the country, and not to football clubs and palaces with yachts.
        Quote: Pavel73
        The concept of the new OS is simple, and not invented by me: one maximum two modules.

        Exactly. A modular design that allows you to compose an OS from as many blocks as you like, changing them as new achievements appear. And the OS must have its own. You don't have to create from scratch. Construction experience is available. It is necessary to put big-headed thinkers and not handy speculators in the leadership.
    2. aars
      aars 9 February 2021 14: 32
      +2
      Rogozin previously said that he would abandon the ISS from 2020 ...
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 9 February 2021 11: 29
    -23%
    How tired of these tales about mythical successes, and even more so the Mask. Firstly, in the development of that very moon for 30 years - degradation, if you adhere to the version that the United States flew to the moon. Now they cannot. They are actually the super engine on which they flew (?) In terms of indicators - they cannot even repeat
    And according to the tales of the Mask ...
    https://habr.com/ru/post/500898/
    Useful to read. And think with my head, otherwise I only see slogans above. To begin with, at least remember the author of the RUSSIAN-CHINESE program for the exploration of the moon. But Rogozin is more interesting to spit. Although the information content did not increase from this
    1. Nitarius
      Nitarius 9 February 2021 11: 55
      -12%
      but they were not on the MOON ... who would have let them go there! Their rockets then .. fell the sea and the ocean and nothing more!
    2. jonht
      jonht 9 February 2021 11: 57
      -3
      There was news about the work on the assembly of the orbital tug, but this is such a trifle and does not attract serious news. Angora is not a bad rocket, but to reduce the cost of it, we need a clear understanding of how many and what kind of missiles we need in terms of carrying capacity and for what period of time. But this is just the trouble, there are plans, but they are only carried out through * opu and with eternal transfer and into the right.
      1. Cosm22
        Cosm22 9 February 2021 12: 28
        +14
        Hangara is a very bad PH.
        For a variety of reasons and characteristics.
        And they are pulling this project only because there is no other.
        1. jonht
          jonht 10 February 2021 04: 36
          0
          [quote] [/ quote] And why didn't the characteristics suit you? The ones that use oxygen and hydrogen? Perhaps you are not satisfied with the modularity inherent in the RN?
    3. Cosm22
      Cosm22 9 February 2021 12: 24
      +10
      Even so? "Are they actually the super engine they flew (?) In terms of performance - they can't even repeat ..."?
      What super engines do you mean?
      F-1? Or RS-25? So they exist to this day. You can see and feel them. The shuttle RS-25 is already mounted on the SLS. Did not know? I suspect that not only this ...
      Why repeat? Any engine is tailored for a specific PH.
      Trends have changed. Methane priority, reusability. In this regard, new engines have appeared. At Musk's. Bezos.
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 9 February 2021 13: 47
        -12%
        Yawning ... F-1, F-1 ... Trends have changed, yes ... And precisely because one F-1 engine gave more thrust than all the engines of the "new trend" on the super-heavy "mask" rocket (won't you tell , where those who are kicked out of the African vocational school for the poor progress of drug addicts are taught engine building) - according to the most modest estimates - it is necessary to launch the Falcon 35 times just to deliver the assembly material for a rocket capable of reaching the Moon, into orbit? This is despite the fact that from the F-1 the rocket with the cargo seemed to get to the Moon, starting from the Earth and once?
        There is no need to tell tales about "trends". To do this, you have to be just a drug addict to believe in this.
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 9 February 2021 18: 17
          +14
          Yawning ...
          The F-1 engine was designed for a specific carrier and for a specific practical purpose. Therefore, the traction is decent, and the other parameters are normal. The goal was achieved.
          As for the Falcons, then, perhaps, a drug addict could dream that Musk wanted to get to them to the moon. But adequate people know that for this purpose Musk is building the Starship, a completely different carrier.
          As for trends, they are still on the agenda. As reusability was a priority, it remains. Since Roscosmos itself has started talking about it.
          The Falcons don't need heavy duty motors. They have different goals. The task was to crush the commercial launch market for LEO. This task is brilliantly accomplished by Mask. European and Russian services are left behind, they are no longer needed. The proton is buried, the Angara and the as yet not made Soyuz-5 have no even theoretical chances of getting into the international commercial niche. Musk made a "nine" and super-heavy, which are absolutely out of competition. For Musk, this is all a stage already passed and he is now engaged in the Starship.
          And in order to understand why the Mask has several engines on the Falcon, you must first learn the materiel. Understand the difference between multi-motion and multi-chamber. Understand why propulsion is possible in the first case, but not in the second. Understand the meaning of the term "throttling parameters". Understand why you need dubbing engines and a safety net. But this requires desire. The absence of which is felt, judging by the school arguments.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. aars
      aars 9 February 2021 15: 02
      +9
      Quote: Cowbra
      that the United States flew to the moon
      We flew, no questions asked:
      Traces of them.
      And this is a lunar rover.
  • Andre___86
    Andre___86 9 February 2021 11: 29
    +8
    But we have Orthodox rockets - consecrated))))
  • The comment was deleted.
  • lasroc
    lasroc 9 February 2021 11: 36
    +2
    And then it is quite possible that the Chinese will land on the moon before the Americans

    Hello Chinese people from the moon

    you are a little late lol
    1. tasha
      tasha 9 February 2021 16: 00
      +1
      The article is, I hope, about the prospects for landing in the future and further development. But for the photo +
      1. lasroc
        lasroc 9 February 2021 16: 38
        +2
        The article is, I hope, about the prospects of landing in the future and further development

        Yes, you are right, I just meant that the author did not mention in the article that the Americans were already there in 1969, hence the conclusion of this article suggests that the United States has never been there at all and Chinese taikonauts in the future will be the first in the whole history of mankind, but whether the United States was on the moon or not is actually another question, respectfully hi
  • Linxs
    Linxs 9 February 2021 11: 37
    +8
    How could the Chinese get ahead if they copy everything and don't create anything of their own?
    Indeed, this is exactly how some comrades write about China here
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 9 February 2021 19: 25
      -2
      Quote: LinxS
      How the Chinese could get ahead if they copy everything

      The fact is that the Chinese copy what is needed to build a strong state with a strong economy and armed forces. And what have Russian "figures" copied over the past three decades? Palaces, yachts, golden toilets? The electronics of Chinese manufacturers are in the first places in the world, but what do we have? What is the Russian electronics industry striving for?
      The growing population allows selection in all branches of industry and science. And our population is dying out, the Russian language is becoming a tool for swearing. And once there were Pushkin with Tolstoy, and Lomonosov with Tsiolkovsky, and Korolev with Tupolev, and Zykina with Plisetskaya, and Bondarchuk (father) with Efremov (Oleg) ... And today? And we have? Straight from the classics:
      There are no others; and those are far away ...
      from service for the good of the Fatherland.
  • Roman070280
    Roman070280 9 February 2021 11: 45
    +4
    Roman, as always, wrote everything down on the case ..
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 9 February 2021 11: 54
    -15%
    The article .. is called gossip! there is no essence ... it is clear what CHINA wants .... but so far nothing more! they cannot create an engine for the Airplane ... but with regards to the ROCKET .. then on our R-9 they can do something for now! and nothing more! with regards to the soil ... so far, too, only FUCK!
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 9 February 2021 11: 56
    +4
    A good review article. On some points it is possible to discuss, but in general, everything is objective. Here Roman is a fine fellow.
    As for our prospects, for a bright future, there is one gold mine, ships with nuclear projectors. On them, IMHO, you need to bet.
    In the current gloomy present, we would support the satellite constellation and bring the Angara and it will be good. It's hard to dream about more in the current realities.
    PS "Besides, I think that Carthage should be destroyed ..." I mean, Baikonur should be ours.
  • Putnik119
    Putnik119 9 February 2021 12: 13
    -1
    I did not understand the main thing: Why is all this necessary? Moon Race, Zoning the Moon? Who is the first who is the last. What for? What is there to do? Not, of course, we have space technologies. In the scope of the interests of the state, launches are carried out. But the "race"? Russia occupies 1/6 of the inhabited land area. Let's equip it. And let the United States explore the moon. Stop rubbing these stupid problems sucked out of ....
    1. tasha
      tasha 9 February 2021 12: 26
      -1
      Sergey, you have a very interesting opinion. You seem to be right, yes. We have something to master on Earth. The Arctic is one thing, the World Ocean. But I think that space is like a locomotive. This is the idea that pulls everything, science, industry, culture ...
      Have you read S. Pavlov's book "Moonlight Rainbow"? One of my favorite books as a child. I read it when I was 10, when 2000 seemed like a distant future. I thought that in the 2000s we would live like this .. Yeah ...
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 9 February 2021 12: 45
      +6
      I didn't understand the main thing: Why is all this necessary? Sea race, division of terra incognito into zones? Who is the first who is the last. What for? What is there to do? Not, of course, we have marine technology. In the scope of the interests of the state, campaigns are carried out. But the "race"? Russia occupies 1/6 of the inhabited land area. Let's equip it. And let other countries learn terra incognito. Enough to grind these stupid, sucked from .... problems.

      15-18 century.
    3. 2 Level Advisor
      2 Level Advisor 9 February 2021 13: 04
      0
      1/9 of the land, already 27 years ago .. and so .. there is of course logic in your words, but if we want to be the leaders in space, we need to fight ..
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 February 2021 15: 10
      -5
      What is there to do? There are a lot of them to mine rare earth metals on the lunar surface in the form of fragments of meteorites and asteroids that bombarded the lunar surface for billions of years, and in view of the very low attraction and the absence of soil erosion, they are all on the surface - we launch robotic complexes with metal detectors and magnetometers and they will find areas where metal focused and the same robotic technology that will extract all this from the United States for this, in fact, almost everything is there and the super-heavy Falcon Heavy and even the reusable cargo Dragon 2 that can take off from the surface of the Moon atomic energy sources of 10 kW and more satellite communication constellation can be brought out now into the orbit of the Moon and behind them dozens of satellites of inspectors who can simply ram ships and stations flying into orbit, and with such a realization, the United States in all seriousness can declare that the Moon completely belongs to them - and no one can do anything about it. The principle in space will be one for the long term who is the first one and the owner.
  • 7,62x54
    7,62x54 9 February 2021 12: 20
    +7
    Roskosmos makes wonderful space toilets, better than American ones. Apparently they will put paid on the moon. There is already a manager for this network - Dunno.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 9 February 2021 12: 38
    0
    Competition, race, competition, it is not important, it is clear that this is such an event, waiting out which, sitting on the shore, waiting for something to float by, is ... dead, from the definition of ALL.
  • donavi49
    donavi49 9 February 2021 12: 40
    +7
    The moon, not the moon, but the AMC engine has already reached Mars. wink

    the first Arab spacecraft in deep space today enters Martian orbit.


    The Chinese are already taking Mars.


    Perseverance flies nearby and after 10 days will start an entry maneuver. As it will be.
    1. Andre___86
      Andre___86 9 February 2021 12: 46
      +4
      But we have Nord Stream-2)))
      1. Igoresha
        Igoresha 9 February 2021 13: 01
        +6
        and logs to China again
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 9 February 2021 15: 12
          -2
          And the beginning of design work on the Power of Siberia 2 gas pipeline to China for 50 billion cubic meters per year.
    2. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 9 February 2021 15: 58
      -2
      the first Arab apparatus
      A device built and launched for Arab money.
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 9 February 2021 12: 48
    +6
    From what we are now observing, it is very clear how our system is archaic and inert in relation to many issues - the horizon of our planning lies before the horizon of the beginning of the activities of the same China / USA / often even Japan. There is no need to talk about our real participation in the Moon Race - they are not ready economically and purposefully, at the level of political will they are also not ready. After the collapse of the USSR, our space program (as far as I understand) fell more and more into some kind of vinaigrette cooperation with the West, and now, as a result of this, we simply do not have an understanding of what to do next if there will soon be no one to carry into orbit.
    Once again, all of our movements for the foreseeable future are tied to the economy and planning - either defense, import substitution, or space. We will not go far until we deal with the legislative framework and the development of our economy and industry (as well as the welfare of people), because Space is not a thing "in itself", it is a natural continuation of the country's development (and if there is no perceived development, then it will be felt in space will not be) .
  • BAI
    BAI 9 February 2021 13: 24
    +1
    Something the author of the United Arab Emirates missed. Whose satellites are now flying up to Mars (followed by landing on it)? USA, China, Emirates. Where will Russia not be located, but is Russia already now? Where a negro is very dark.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 9 February 2021 14: 35
      +7
      The UAE is by the way a partner of Artemis. So some thread Hamdan Al Maktoum will not only bring horses at the price of an average Russian oligarch's yacht, but also ride on the Moon in a space Toyota this decade and take a selfie. So the Rotenbergs, Timchenko, Potanin, Usmanov and Sechins will look faded - because they have yachts and palaces, and Hamdana also walks on the moon wink .
      1. Lexus
        Lexus 9 February 2021 18: 46
        0
        Why create? Local thimblers believe that whatever your heart desires, you can buy.
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 9 February 2021 13: 52
    +1
    There has long been no Marxism-Leninism in China. There is social capitalism, where the state is the main corporation, and the CPC essentially performs the functions of its board of directors. The Kremlin is now trying to build something similar by buying up controlling stakes in large (especially mining) enterprises and creating new state corporations, enlarging existing ones according to directions, etc.
    But yes, the Chinese have not abolished the classical state plan (and rightly so), although now it does not penetrate so much into all spheres of China's economic activity.
    At the expense of science and technology. They are present in China (primarily machine tools and electronics), although they are lagging behind in many areas in others. They compensate for this with an excellently working foreign intelligence service and a disregard for patent law.

    At the expense of the lunar program and the dreams of some politicians about some state or private property on the moon, I believe that in the next twenty years all this does not make sense to take seriously, due to the fact that the cost of such programs is absolutely prohibitive. And the reasons for this cost lie in the physical principles of the design of rocket engines. And just here, I do not agree with Roman that we are in complete ass, given the ongoing development and creation of nuclear-powered space tugs. You also need to understand that Boykonur, at the moment, is conditionally suitable for solving such global projects, and at the new Vostochny launch complex there is still a lot to build and build (here it is necessary to remind Roman that Boykonur, even under the USSR and its state plan, in its present form it was created for decades, and not suddenly and immediately). By the time the entire infrastructure of the Vostochny cosmodrome is available, the launched products will be ready. The same "Angara" and more difficult projects.
    Those. I am calm about the fact that the Chinese and Americans will get out of their skin, just to put another flag on "lunar Everest". If there is no force majeure, then at a certain moment a Russian forester will come and heap luli on everyone who is fighting for this lunar "forester's lodge".

    Regarding SpaceX and Starlink .. They have not yet fully matured to serious manned space programs, since there are real problems in terms of reliability. Well, okay, they will grow, no question. The question is, what will be the reaction of the state and the public in the event of a disaster and the death of the crew? If the disaster with the "Challenger" and "Columbia" was viewed as nationwide, since NASA is in some way a state enterprise and the attitude to the space race was almost Soviet-style - we (the whole people and the whole country) did it. Then in the case of a type of private company, it will be (it seems to me) everything is somewhat different.
    Further .. What does the number of micro and nano satellites that they launch have to do with the lunar program, I do not know, since these satellites are launched to conquer the Earth (via social networks), but not the Moon, since there are no social networks there.))
    Well, that's all I would like to say about the pseudo private American space developers (the loot there is still spinning from the state). Perhaps only to remind that the Americans are still buying rocket engines from us. But that's okay, that's for now. There will be time, they will make their own.

    In general, the vector of the article is clear and does not cause fundamental internal contradictions in me, but the presentation is somewhat chaotic and to a certain extent tendentious. Those. I understand what Roman wanted to say and generally agree with him. But as they say, God is in the details.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 February 2021 23: 21
      0
      "Luna, I believe that in the next twenty years all this does not make sense to consider seriously, due to the fact that the cost of such programs is absolutely prohibitive. And the reasons for this cost lie in the physical principles of the design of rocket engines." How Musk will make his Starship and he will do it within 10 years and the active development of the Moon and its bowels will begin, as well as tourist flights will begin to the Moon and with his money you can already master the Moon with the help of the same Falcon Hayvey, but now the priority Starlink will continue to move as soon as all 12000 satellites are displayed.
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 10 February 2021 01: 29
        -3
        Quote: Vadim237
        and he will do it for 10 years and the active development of the Moon and its bowels will begin, as well as tourist flights will begin to the Moon and with his money you can already master the Moon with the help of the same Falcon Hayvey, but now Starlink's priority is how to bring out all 12000 satellites will go on.

        Our opinions differ here. Musk, as such, has no money (his own). All his projects are unprofitable (without exception). Essentially, Musk is like a billboard for American entrepreneurship. Loot is spinning there from the state and from some interested sponsors (about like Mark Zuckerberg's millions who came from nowhere)).
        Thousands of nanosatellites, in the context of serious space, this is nothing at all and not about that. There, each satellite weighs about a kilogram, at the price of a piece of bugs (in fact, routers, in space performance). They sow them in handfuls in orbit. If we had a need and a task, we would also sow, since there are enough old ICBMs to write off. Each of about a hundred will output, if not more.
        What Musk will do there in ten years, we will see in ten years. In the meantime, all this is kitchen chatter, which is not punishable, but also not taken seriously. wink
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 11 February 2021 16: 24
          0
          Musk, as such, has no money (his own). There are also investment ones from private investors, there is a state minimum. "Thousands of nanosatellites, in the context of serious space, this is generally nothing and not about that" 227-260 kg - wow "nanosatellite" that's just all these satellites will become a big shovel for raking in money, since as soon as Starlink starts working Musk will start working hundreds of billions more on the Internet within a few years. Essentially, Musk is like a billboard for American entrepreneurship. And Musk became this billboard thanks to his actions, decisions and everything else - no one helped him in this.
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 9 February 2021 14: 34
    -4
    Flights to the moon are colossal grandmas of course. Launching a cargo ship like the Progress to the Moon would cost the same as launching a Proton. Well, never mind let the two colossus exhaust themselves financially ...
  • Infinity
    Infinity 9 February 2021 14: 48
    +3
    As for Biden, I would like to add. He really didn't really say anything about space, like Kamala, maximum congratulations, for example, or general phrases about supporting NASA and private traders. Everyone was really afraid for Artemis and the USSF (a new branch of the US Armed Forces, spun off from the Air Force by Trump, which Psaka unknowingly called the "new aircraft" laughing ). But the new administration has already confirmed that Artemis will be supported and the USSF will not be returned to the Air Force. So it won't go to the archive! And other countries have already joined the United States, mainly through the LOP-G line, but this is also part of the lunar program. And Biden talked so much about uniting with the allies ... Besides, if China succeeds, and even us with our program, the Americans will somehow be inconvenient to bury the program. But! The support for "Artemis" will be cut financially, and this is already unambiguous, in fact, the decision was made in mid-December. At the same time, the program is very voluminous and complex. And in April, they will still choose two of the three previously approved lander. Perhaps if the Democrats, who have the majority, continue to cut the budget, then one will have to choose. And yes, you can forget about Trump's dream of returning people to the moon in 1 for now, although many considered these dates too unrealistic. But a lot has already been done! Orion is ready, SLS is almost the same, even a failure on the first fire bench test turned out to be an error in setting up the software (Boeing laughing ), and not structural defects, which would be much more serious. According to plans, the launch of Artemis-1 this year (although it seems to me that it will take place in the first half of 2022, but this is not so important).
  • depressant
    depressant 9 February 2021 15: 18
    +9
    Back in December 2017, the then assistant to the president, and now Deputy Prime Minister Belousov called the state corporation Roscosmos "not making a living." Imagine how it was necessary to fail the work on space, so that even Prime Minister Medvedev, who himself failed his work, at the beginning of 2019 called on Roskosmos to stop "talking about where we will fly in 2030", talk less and do more.
    But for some reason it seems to me that if the presidential aides and prime ministers, first of all, did not fail their work, then things would go better for Roscosmos.
  • Kushka
    Kushka 9 February 2021 15: 24
    0
    Quote: Nitarius
    but they were not on the MOON ... who would have let them go there! Their missiles then .. fell the sea ocean and no more togabout!

    I wasn’t, I bet. I was just busy there with cucumbers.
    Let them just try.
  • sleeve
    sleeve 9 February 2021 16: 46
    0
    That's it. When viewed "broadly" and comprehensively, it seems that our space program is designed for ... the conservation of the space industry, while maintaining the main capacities and intellectual potential in anticipation of something. However, why not proceed from the option of reasonable sufficiency, as in defense? We have the best tool that will remain the best for another couple of decades. It is necessary to retain staff and develop new ones; this requires a working industry. It is available. Well, the breakthroughs ... Or maybe these breakthroughs are being prepared? Quality racing. As with hypersound.
  • fa2998
    fa2998 9 February 2021 17: 14
    +3
    I would answer the question of what is in the title of the article, but I think the admins will ban such an answer! I think how the ISS will be flooded, our space will end. We can only fly well in near-earth orbit, thanks to Korolev and the USSR. And Russian space was never born. hi
  • krops777
    krops777 9 February 2021 17: 56
    -2
    The Moon can be declared a US zone of influence. But will the satellite of the planet make it an American territory, if Chinese ships and automatic stations fly there?


    Very hasty conclusions, the United States closed the lunar program for one reason and it is the main one - it is expensive, and for a long time there will be no manned flights to the Moon, and even more so the construction of bases there, it is quite possible that the United States is trying to drag China into the space race in order to weaken, and Russia is does not threaten us it is beyond our means.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 February 2021 23: 13
      0
      The United States closed the lunar program for one reason and it is the main one - it is expensive Yes, because it was implemented at the very beginning of space exploration, the first flight of an astronaut in the 61st - the flight to the Moon in the 69th is why it cost a lot of money, like all astronautics in those years, everything is now worked out and everything is much cheaper. "And for a long time there will be no manned flights to the Moon, and even more so the construction of bases there" Already in this decade - both flights and the orbital Lunar Station - there is only a super-heavy rocket left to test all the components are already ready, starting from the ship to the Lunar spacesuit and so on.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 9 February 2021 18: 31
    -1
    Yes, God is with her, with this moon, the main thing in our country is order
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 9 February 2021 19: 26
    0
    The Chinese are privatizing the Lagrange point between the Moon and the Earth, and you will be tortured to fly around them according to the laws of physics. And they will not only wave a wand, stand money on the table! Otherwise, the Moon, the Moon. It is more profitable as an inter-lunar traffic cop! And we will also give them a brick sign!
  • eklmn
    eklmn 10 February 2021 02: 43
    0
    Roman, in the article you said:
    "The statements of some American politicians on the theme that" everything that is mined on the moon (by the Americans - I add.) Must belong to the United States "make you want to twirl your finger at your temple, nothing more."
    I would like to hear your opinion on how to divide the production between the countries of the earth. What ideas do you have? For example - the team Artemis (7 countries) extracted 200 kg of something, delivered it to the ground. Divided by 200 UN members, you get 1 kg per country. Costs of $ billion per 200 kg will be a couple of hundred $ million per kg. Who is willing to pay? Any ideas?
  • Maks1995
    Maks1995 10 February 2021 11: 44
    +1
    The phrase that explains everything: "There is no money, but you are holding on ..."
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 10 February 2021 17: 04
    0
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    Neither has a GDP per capita at the level of the Caribbean. They bypassed Turkmenistan and came close to that of Guyana.

    Well, they overtook Guyana a long time ago. In more understandable coordinates, they are at par between Bulgaria and Romania. Yes, the poorest EU countries, but still the EU.

    Stat data is one thing, but seeing the dynamics of progress with your own eyes is another. By the way, I saw Guyana. It's like in India.

    And I have been in China on business since 2000. Their cities, not only in the coastal regions, but also in the hinterland - for well-being, comfort and grooming at the European level. But in terms of manufacturability, they overtook both Europe and the United States. Only Taiwan, Japan and Singapore are ahead. Only those who read the statistics, but have not personally seen anything in life, will compare China and Guyana. And I have been to more than 190 countries of the world and in some of them many times.
    The fact that the Chinese have greatly surpassed us is a reason to wonder what bad things are happening to us. I'm only happy for the Chinese. But I'm pondering what to do with us - with the Russians? There is simply not enough evil!
    My friend and companion from Belgorod also often visits China and says that we must be quickly shot and replaced with other, better people. I have no counterarguments.
    1. WayKheThuo
      WayKheThuo 10 February 2021 18: 29
      +1
      My friend and companion from Belgorod also often visits China and says that we must be quickly shot and replaced with other, better people. I have no counterarguments.

      And I have - let the lover of "quality people" go to China, and live there not as a customer who comes on business, but in real life - working somewhere in sales, for example, or as a coder in 12/7 mode.
      You see, he doesn't like people. Well, excuse me - there are no others, but if it's really hard - we have a free country - go to the PRC, to the "good" people.
      Only he is not going and will not go.
      And you, you know perfectly well why, since you have been in China since 2000.
      So it goes.
    2. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 10 February 2021 22: 17
      +1
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      replace with other, better people. I have no counterarguments.

      Well, it remains to find out the opinion of Comrade Xi on this issue. He may have some ideas.
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      Only those who read the statistics, but have not personally seen anything in life, will compare China and Guyana. And I have been to more than 190 countries of the world and in some of them many times.

      Mr. Lebedev, no way, has come.
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      except for those islands that are still European colonies, balancing between poverty and misery

      There is still a queen in Barbados.
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      I'll tell you a secret that the statistics are lying to you.

      Quite possible. But by all numbers (GDP / HDI) Barbados is just a moderately backward country in Europe. As for how there actually - I didn't live there, I won't say. If you are imbued with the pain of mulattoes in a day or two stops - well, OK.
    3. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 14 February 2021 13: 05
      0
      in 190 countries of the world and in some many times.
      Have mastered the art of teleportation or got hold of a litrukha elixir of immortality laughing ?
      Only those who read the statistics, but have not personally seen anything in life, will compare China and Guyana.
      And also the one who compiles these statistics.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 10 February 2021 17: 14
    -1
    Quote: Cherry Nine
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    IMF disagrees with you. World Bank (he put them in 2019 just above Barabados)

    You are completely lying. That is how they put China, between Bulgaria and Romania. As for Barbados, it is a relatively wealthy country, between Poland and Greece. It would be reasonable to reconsider your attitude to the Caribbean countries as to savages with beads, among them there are quite safe places by the standards of Eastern Europe.

    Cherry dozen. I'll tell you a secret that the statistics are lying to you.
    I am a big fan of Caribbean cruises and also a collector of countries. I've been EVERYWHERE in the Caribbean. Therefore, do not tell the public what you know only from the articles. Life in the Caribbean, except for those islands that are still European colonies, balances between poverty and misery. I was in the Caribbean back in early 2020 in front of a covid. Spent 2 weeks on the cruise. More or less prosperous, but not rich, and certainly worse than in China, live Martinique, Guadeloupe, Saint Martin, the Netherlands Antilles. And Barbados is very poor, whatever the statistics say. And China is rich, no matter how it is belittled by statistics.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 10 February 2021 17: 16
    +1
    Quote: Roman070280
    But at the same time, everything is exactly higher than in China.


    The average salary in China in 2021 is 5995 yuan. This figure rises by about $ 50-70 every year.

    So we have already lagged behind in salaries too.

    I agree with you. But many people like to think of the old notions that the Chinese work for a cup of rice.
    It's a shame. And I want to make our fellow citizens ridiculous so that they work better and get richer. The brains are apparently like that.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 12 February 2021 19: 26
      0
      For information inadequate: a powerful knitwear factory has covered itself with a copper basin. Instead of her, having stolen a bunch of dough, as is customary to equip the Evropeyskiy SEC, he worked poorly for a couple of years, now it is closed, they are looking for someone to prodal. This is the introductory part, so to speak.
      There were people left, seamstresses, experienced by the way. A man came, I’m taking you to me, by the way I bought the equipment from this factory, the work started. And the salary seems to be nothing and the bonus, don't laugh, it went off scale for twenty, our men at the factories received less. A doll came from the former jersey, from the department, I don’t know what it was and how it sang to the owner, now the seamstresses come at 6-30 and plow until 16-00, and some still remain and barely reach 10-12 thousand.
      And the seamstresses are experienced, for more than a dozen years at typewriters, and the young do not go at all, because even 10 tons will not work.
      Well, who are you going to fuck, my dear? And almost all products go to Moscow, the quality is excellent, the series is small, the assortment is wide.
      So it turns out that for a cup of rice, it's ours who plow, not the Chinese. And there is no work, that's the whole story. So you don't have to open your mouth wide.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 10 February 2021 17: 18
    +1
    Quote: Vadim237
    What is there to do? There are a lot of them to mine rare earth metals on the lunar surface in the form of fragments of meteorites and asteroids that bombarded the lunar surface for billions of years, and in view of the very low attraction and the absence of soil erosion, they are all on the surface - we launch robotic complexes with metal detectors and magnetometers and they will find areas where metal focused and the same robotic technology that will extract all this from the United States for this, in fact, almost everything is there and the super-heavy Falcon Heavy and even the reusable cargo Dragon 2 that can take off from the surface of the Moon atomic energy sources of 10 kW and more satellite communication constellation can be brought out now into the orbit of the Moon and behind them dozens of satellites of inspectors who can simply ram ships and stations flying into orbit, and with such a realization, the United States in all seriousness can declare that the Moon completely belongs to them - and no one can do anything about it. The principle in space will be one for the long term who is the first one and the owner.

    And let's not do anything at all and not strive for anything. Let's be Upper Volta. And our rockets will rot. This is your logic.
    But I hope that our people, who are rooting for Russia, will not support you and others like you.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 10 February 2021 17: 27
    -1
    Quote: Bolt Cutter
    Life in Poland is much better than on another planet
    It is quite the average European standard of living in Poland, and the Caribbean basin (with the level of China) is far from them. But best of all is in communist China laughing There's planning and the Party wassat

    And what have planning and the party to do with it? Or are you for the liberals and for Tananmen?
    And take an interest in economic history. And you will see that only non-democratic countries are making a powerful economic breakthrough. So, the United States and Europe made a breakthrough not the first place in the world in terms of economy in those days when they were not yet democratic, that is, Europe before the Second World War, and the United States before the 60s. And many other examples. Although, of course, an authoritarian regime is, to put it mildly, not a guarantee of continued economic growth.
    Personally, about you, Boltorez, I will assume that for a long time you were subordinated to the pleasant thought of superiority over the Chinese, as underdeveloped creatures plowing for a bowl of rice. And it upsets you that the Chinese turned out to be so daring that they surpassed us, the Russians, and that we, the Russians, in comparison with the Chinese, are a backward, industrially degrading people. And you still have a little racist hope that the Chinese will still grow up to the USA. But within our generation, China will surpass the United States in terms of bulk.
    1. Bolt cutter
      Bolt cutter 14 February 2021 13: 21
      0
      But even within our generation, China will surpass the United States in terms of bulk.
      It's not difficult - there are one and a half billion. So Russia jokingly surpasses Iceland in shaft-covers and pulls yes ... And on a per capita basis, Icelandic souls feel much better. Why are the citizens of such a successful state as China being caught by the UK immigration authorities?
  • WayKheThuo
    WayKheThuo 10 February 2021 18: 16
    +2
    Good article, but passage:
    And this trump card is called - socialist planning. That is, a clearly developed concept and a plan for its implementation in accordance with the teachings of Marxism-Leninism, which is followed by the CPC, the leading country.

    Causes some bewilderment.
    Is it communism in China? Socialism? Well, no, whatever, but not that.
    In China, IMHO, state capitalism, densely mixed with Confucian morality. The CCP has the same relationship to communism as Aloisovich's NSDAP to workers' rights.
    As for planning, it can be perfectly capitalist - it is enough to work in any more or less large international company in order to understand the whole "charm" of capitalist planning, really tough and merciless, especially in the field of sales.
    But in general, I completely agree with the Author - China will burst into space by all possible means - this is a matter of national pride, and it is especially important that the Han want to do everything themselves, without these "joint" projects of yours - only for themselves and only for themselves, showing the whole world that with the cheap labor of the Morlocks, the West somewhat miscalculated.
    I think so.
  • iouris
    iouris 10 February 2021 21: 33
    0
    Socialist planning ... Well then, the United States has long been communism. Where is Russia? On the market.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 12 February 2021 19: 01
    -1
    Russia will sit on a mountain and wait for two corpses to swim by. laughing
  • TANKISTONE
    TANKISTONE 13 February 2021 19: 43
    -1
    Bolt Cutter (Alex) In Denmark, earnings are 20 euros per hour, but this is the price of coffee with a roll.
    More per hour than the "locomotive" of Europe - Germany? I am a rogue .., although coffee (a glass of cardboard) 0,45-1,5 (€), + bun, the same amount (€), if not in a super-duper cafe-restaurant. "Average statistical" statistics is still not an indicator at all, but a distortion of reality!
  • looker-on
    looker-on 14 February 2021 10: 42
    0
    And you shouldn't even think about how erroneous or hopeless this teaching can be. Because it was on it that the Soviet Union at one time broke into space leaders. And it was precisely on the rejection of such a plan that Russia lost its leadership.


    Really thinking is harmful. When people think they start asking questions and draw conclusions) I can't put a minus to the article, but it is
  • looker-on
    looker-on 14 February 2021 10: 44
    0
    Quote: sergo1914
    Yes, God is with her, with this moon, the main thing in our country is order

    What country do you live in, if not a secret?