Military Review

The Ministry of Defense has decided on the place of service of the "Provorny" corvette of project 20385

57
The Ministry of Defense has decided on the place of service of the "Provorny" corvette of project 20385

The project 20385 corvette Provorny, which is being built at the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg, will go to serve in the Pacific Fleet by the end of the year. Reported by "News" with reference to sources in the Ministry of Defense.


As the newspaper writes, the decision in principle to send "Provorny" to the Far East has already been made. Following the lead "Thundering", he will go to the Pacific Fleet, where he will become part of the Joint Forces Command in the north-east of the country. The ship will be stationed in Kamchatka, the main task of the corvette is to ensure the safety of navigation on the Northern Sea Route.

Currently, the ship's crew has been formed, the corvette is preparing to undergo mooring tests, after which it will enter the factory running gear. According to the plans of shipbuilders, the end of state tests and the transfer of the ship to the Naval fleet will be held before the end of the year.

Project 20385 "Agile" corvette is the second ship in the series after the lead "Thundering", under construction at Severnaya Verf. Laid down in July 2013, launched in September 2019. It is a further development of project 20380. It is designed to detect and destroy enemy surface ships or submarines, organize the landing of troops, protect the coastal zone, and escort other ships.

Displacement - 2200 tons, length - 104 m, width - 13 m, speed - up to 27 knots, cruising range - 3500 miles, autonomy - 15 days crew - 99 people.

The armament includes a universal shipborne shooting complex (UKSK) for the Kalibr, Onyx and possibly Zircon, Redut air defense missile systems, 100-mm artillery mount A-190-01, two 30-mm anti-aircraft artillery systems AK- 630M, and also anti-submarine complex "Package". There is a platform for the Ka-27 helicopter.
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  1. Bashkirkhan
    Bashkirkhan 8 February 2021 13: 05
    +4
    It stands unpainted on the street on the slipway. He has not yet been launched into the water. What's the end of the year wassat What is the source of the lime found in the Ministry of Defense, with whom did the journalist drink this weekend?
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 8 February 2021 13: 12
      +4
      the corvette is preparing to pass mooring tests,
      MOORING ... yegeshniki ...
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 8 February 2021 14: 11
        +4
        In the navy it is customary to say mooring.
        I will not provide links.
        You can see for yourself. hi
    2. credo
      credo 8 February 2021 13: 14
      +3
      Quote: Bashkirkhan
      It stands unpainted on the street on the slipway. He has not yet been launched into the water. What's the end of the year wassat What is the source of the lime found in the Ministry of Defense, with whom did the journalist drink this weekend?

      Times are changing rapidly and in the economy, albeit slowly, new technologies are being introduced in the manufacture, assembly, painting and equipment of products.
      On the first-borns, if they are new, technologies are worked out, and on the subsequent ones they go like a knurled one.
      Serial products need to learn to cook quickly. I hope so.
      1. Borik
        Borik 8 February 2021 13: 35
        +2
        It is necessary to replenish the Pacific Fleet. Well, if the corvette is going to be handed over in December, then it will get to the Far East at the end of summer next year.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 8 February 2021 14: 16
          0
          All 2 + 2 20385 were originally planned for the Pacific Fleet.
          The armament includes a universal shipborne shooting complex (UKSK) for the KR "Caliber", "Onyx" and possibly "Zircon"

          It seems to me that the "Answer" submarine missile system will be his main weapon.
          Separately touched by the phrase:
          The ship will be stationed in Kamchatka, the main task of the corvette is to ensure the safety of navigation on the Northern Sea Route.

          What should SSBNs do on the NSR? bully
          1. Bez 310
            Bez 310 8 February 2021 14: 28
            +3
            Quote: Alex777
            What should SSBNs do on the NSR?

            About the NSR is a popular mantra.
            True, they have not yet decided
            who will violate "security
            shipping to the NSR ", and how?
            1. bayard
              bayard 8 February 2021 17: 46
              +3
              Apparently this refers to the Bering Strait zone.
              1. Alex777
                Alex777 8 February 2021 19: 35
                +2
                PLO SSBNs - the main purpose of 20385. IMHO, of course. hi
                1. bayard
                  bayard 8 February 2021 20: 20
                  0
                  Of course. It's just that recently it has become fashionable to talk about the safety of the NSR.
                  Shipping companies need to be lured there, so every time they talk about safety.
                  For the corvette, it makes no sense to go beyond the Berengov Strait.
                  Even for the sake of show-off.
          2. Angry
            Angry 9 February 2021 14: 38
            0
            On AB there is an interesting opinion with which I agree. Quote: "Mdaaaa .... There is enough marasmus for our Defense Ministry. And at the same time, they understand the danger posed by the" partners. "In particular, after all, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 corps of Project 22350 are intended for the Pacific Fleet. Half of all 10 frigates of Project 22350, some of which will be "U". But the whole five should come by 2026 + year. And before that, two shock corvettes, possibly with extraordinary capabilities of their weapons, are sent to Velyuchinsk ??? Here they will catch up with fear for the entire Japanese fleet and their American allies! Although it would be logically correct, to gather them into a fist, and create a formation of missile ships consisting of: RK "Varyag", as an air defense cruiser, air defense units, and Shaposhnikov and both corvettes could provide Onyx anti-ship missiles in the first pairs, and provide air defense on SD and MD. In addition, five onboard helicopters of this formation, with two crews for each helicopter, would provide round-the-clock finding of one or two helicopters on patrol. "islands. It is clear that under the water of this unity, there may be submarines / nuclear submarines covered by PLO helicopters. IMHO " What is it like?
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 9 February 2021 14: 42
              -1
              In particular, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 hulls of Project 22350 are intended for the Pacific Fleet.

              The fact that 1,2 and 3 22350 go to the Northern Fleet is understandable.
              But about 4,5,6,7 and 8 at the Pacific Fleet - a mistake. 2 of them will definitely go to the Black Sea Fleet.

              Reasoning colleagues about the deadly salvo of 32 Onyxes, I see no reason to comment.
              There, near our indisputable islands, the adversary of the DBK will be driven away. And aviation.
              As for the protection of Boreyev, this is, IMHO, the most important task today.
              We have a goal of PLO. And this is a huge problem.
              It should be understood that no one will leave the bases without solving it.
              Therefore, 20385 - to Kamchatka. And it is right. hi
              1. Angry
                Angry 9 February 2021 14: 47
                0
                The 9th and 10th corps are intended for the Black Sea Fleet, not yet laid down. It is clear that castling can be, but on Wiki this is the information:
                Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Isakov 14.11.2013/2021/2022 43 (plan) 44 (plan) [XNUMX] Pacific Corps is being formed [XNUMX]
                Admiral Amelko 23.04.2019/2024/45 XNUMX (plan) Pacific Under construction [XNUMX]
                Admiral Chichagov 23.04.2019 2025 (plan) Pacific Under construction [45]
                Admiral Yumashev 20.07.2020/2025/2026 46-XNUMX (plan) Pacific Under construction [XNUMX]
                Admiral Spiridonov 20.07.2020/2025/2026 46-XNUMX (plan) Pacific Under construction [XNUMX]
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 9 February 2021 15: 04
                  -1
                  Wait and see.
                  Where it bakes stronger in 5 years, they will be sent there. hi
                  And yet, it is logical to send 22350M to the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet.
                  And the Black Sea Fleet will be enough.
              2. Angry
                Angry 9 February 2021 15: 38
                0
                You have forgotten that two brigades of corvettes are being formed at the Pacific Fleet. One PLO Project 20380, and the second Project 20385. Here is the PLO brigade, just and should be in Kamchatka. Well, the second one ... with 48 Onyx anti-ship missiles and the like, where should it be? Well, if you're a strategist ... "Where should the commander be?" This is from Chapaev. laughing
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 9 February 2021 15: 47
                  -1
                  I am also present at the naval (airbase). wink
                  The fact that experts write about the shortcomings of the PLO TOF there is much cooler than my humble opinion. yes
                  I will ask you one question: when 20380 find an enemy boat, what will they be drowning with?
                  By helicopter? And if there is a storm (they are there all the time) and the helicopter cannot take off? You know about the limited fuel supply for helicopters for 20380?
                  Package? How, then, to defend against nuclear submarine torpedoes?
                  Therefore, the combination in PUG 20380 and 20385 with the "Answer" PLRK is a very correct decision. hi
                  1. Angry
                    Angry 9 February 2021 18: 10
                    0
                    I myself am at a loss as to "why are we building project 20380 at all?", Which is practically unarmed against submarines. BNK without PLUR in a duel in the submarine - a drowned man. Moreover, according to Kasatonov, "we can detect her torpedo just 2 km from our side." But not everything is so sad .. will be. There is an answer ... not a PLUR "Answer", but it seems like the truth that they are trying to cross the Uran missile with a torpedo from the "Packet" ... And then we will get a PLUR that can work with the Uran missile launcher. I see this as the only reason to continue the construction of Project 20380.
  2. Stepan S
    Stepan S 8 February 2021 13: 07
    +4
    It is very simple to determine where the corvette will go to serve - from where the crew arrived, the ship will go there to carry out the service.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 8 February 2021 14: 08
      -1
      Quote: Stepan S
      there the ship will go on duty.

      Is not a fact!
      1. Stepan S
        Stepan S 8 February 2021 14: 46
        +1
        But this is "usually". If plans change after the arrival of the crew, then everything is possible.
  3. Cympak
    Cympak 8 February 2021 13: 09
    +5
    According to the plans of the shipbuilders, the end of state tests and the transfer of the ship to the Navy will take place before the end of the year.

    Note that the article does not say at the end of exactly what year the ship will be transferred to the Navy;)
  4. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 8 February 2021 13: 19
    +1
    will go to serve in the Pacific Fleet
    We must not forget about the Pacific Fleet. Here is the 7th US Navy, and Japan begins to show its teeth dreaming of the Kuril Islands, and the Republic of Kazakhstan is trying to shine with what it has.
    1. mvg
      mvg 8 February 2021 17: 03
      0
      And the Japans and the ROK and the USA have disproportionately large forces in the Pacific Fleet, even separately. Even 20-30 corvettes 20380/20385 will in no way correct the situation. Not a single ship with normal air defense / missile defense. NK will not be enough to bring SSBNs into the OBD zone.
      PS: There is nothing to do there without SNF, since the Aerospace Forces are also very inferior, as well as the PLO. Factor of.
      1. bayard
        bayard 8 February 2021 17: 50
        +1
        SSBNs will be withdrawn to the Okhotsk Sea region, and there air defense can be provided with the forces of basic aviation. It is also not enough, for now, but NK is even less. And yet an extra surface ship, even so small, is still better than nothing. The next 22350 are also planned for the Pacific Fleet.
        1. mvg
          mvg 8 February 2021 19: 33
          -1
          The next 22350 seems to be at the Pacific Fleet too

          I don't see the point. 24+ Japanese destroyers, two helicopter carriers, the Korean fleet is hardly weaker. 20 diesel-electric submarines, more than a dozen for the Republic of Kazakhstan. Most importantly, the ships are fresh, 2000 years, and not 30 ++ pr. 1164 and 1155.
          Well, the enemy has a 7th fleet. Plus Singapore, Australia. What is there to catch with corvettes, the PRC builds them 40 pieces, type 054A. And that does not risk.
          PS: Korea, Japan, Singapore have very strong air forces, AWACS, Orions (analogs). You can't fight with ordinary forces. And these machine-gun companies, air defense in the Far East (Kuril Islands), as a mockery. They won't start World War III because of these islands. Even because of their strategic location.
          1. bayard
            bayard 8 February 2021 20: 13
            +1
            Quote: mvg
            I don't see the point. 24+ Japanese destroyers, two helicopter carriers, the Korean fleet is hardly weaker. 20 diesel-electric submarines, more than a dozen for the Republic of Kazakhstan. Most importantly, the ships are fresh, 2000 years, and not 30 ++ pr. 1164 and 1155.

            The main striking force of the Pacific Fleet is the attack submarines and, in the future, the revived MRA. In addition, to have such ships, nevertheless, is much better than not to have, and they will have to butt in the BMZ so that it arrives there, and for the most part - to ensure the withdrawal of SSBNs to the area of ​​combat deployment. More is not required of them - this is CORVETTE.
            And in the foreseeable future we will not be able to reach an equal position with the leading players in the Asia-Pacific region. We would like to update the surface component, repair the MAPL, wait for a couple of "Ash" and new "Varshavyanka", as well as at least a dozen Tu-22M3 from repair and modernization. And it will be easier.
            1. mvg
              mvg 8 February 2021 20: 48
              -3
              shock submarines and, in the future, the revived MRA

              4 MAPLs (949A and 971) not modernized, 6 diesel-electric submarines outdated 877 and 636, projects for 40 years, torpedoes as old. No MPA, from the word at all. In my opinion, there is not a single Tu-142 in the ranks. 1-2 Il-38 and a pair of A-50U. How to direct frigates and MAPLs? Ash trees are dubiously efficient.
              Onyx coastal complexes? Doubtful.
              PS: We must bend a joint line with China. It will be hard for one. And there will be a mess.
              1. bayard
                bayard 8 February 2021 21: 57
                +2
                Not so long ago, two Tu-142 flew along the Pacific coast of the United States, I don’t think they were driven from another theater. But the poor fleet of specialized aircraft (PLO, AWACS, RTR, etc.) is certainly depressing, and the rely on drones alone is unlikely to justify itself.
                Quote: mvg
                Onyx coastal complexes? Doubtful.

                And if you look at the maps?
                Similar DBKs in Primorye, Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands cover most of the theater. But target designation, again, will be critical.
                Quote: mvg
                PS: We must bend a joint line with China. It will be hard for one. And there will be a mess.

                China has its own line in this matter, and they are unlikely to decide to harness themselves for us. Most likely, they will try on the sly to join the attacking side for the sake of "returning the original territories stolen by the accursed Russian Tsarism."
                China is not our friend or ally.
                And now - not even a fellow traveler.
                For example, let's look at their behavior over the past 7 years. We are looking at their behavior under the program (joint, Russian-Chinese, with the participation of 50 \ 50%), wide-body airliner! They already declare that they received everything they wanted from Russia and do not see Russia's participation in the project anymore. Russia has already designed this plane for them! But to jointly produce it - in Russia, the wings of the tail unit, part of the fuselage elements and, possibly, engines ... they are no longer interested.
                So is it necessary to bend a joint line with such a "partner"?
                I will ask more directly - IS IT POSSIBLE to pursue a joint policy with such "partners" who ALWAYS (!) Cheated when they could afford it?
                I don't see such an opportunity.
                You need to rely only on your own strength.
                This is what Comrade Stalin bequeathed.
                And he proved his innocence by practice.
                1. mvg
                  mvg 8 February 2021 22: 35
                  -1
                  joint, Russian-Chinese, with the participation of 50 \ 50%

                  I don’t know that. C919 with French engines? Or the transport Y-8 \ 20. So why do they need the RF? D-30 engines ??? It is doubtful, they said so that it does not suit them. The S-919 got on the wing earlier and is cheaper than the MS-21. And the composite for the wing was purchased from the MC-21 in Japan. The IL-76 is inferior in performance characteristics to their transport aircraft both in terms of carrying capacity and range. And the MS-21 will still be certified for 2-3 years.
                  PS: According to the behavior of the PRC in the last 7-8 years, they clearly took advantage of the difficult economic situation and, although they did not give a loan, they bought the Su-35S and S-400.
                  They sold us military microelectronics, despite the sanctions, diesel, machine tools, turbines.
                  PPPS: Aegis shoots down anti-ship missiles like Granite P-700 and Vulcan, like Uranus. SAMP-T and Goalkeepers with Phalanx also work well
                  So you shouldn't count on coastal complexes. Moreover, it is possible to constantly keep Hawkeye and Sentry in the air. Out of the air defense coverage area.
                  They conduct their own policy. Each player in the Asia-Pacific region plays his own game.
                  1. bayard
                    bayard 8 February 2021 23: 25
                    -1
                    Quote: mvg
                    I don’t know that. C919 with French engines?

                    No, the CR-929 is a wide-body long-range aircraft. Now a joint venture is being created for the production of these aircraft. The chairman of the board of directors of the joint venture is Oleg Evgenievich Bocharov. Sergey Fominykh will become a member of the board of directors from the Russian side (head of the wide-body aircraft program of PJSC UAC). Chief designer from the Russian side Litvinov Maxim Sergeevich.
                    A promising PD-35 engine was proposed for it, at the first stage - an American analogue.
                    But when it came to organizing the actual production, the Chinese side started talking about the fact that it "has already received everything it wanted from Russia and is not interested in further cooperation. It was the same with the supply of the Su-27 ...
                    Quote: mvg
                    : According to the behavior of the PRC in the last 7-8 years, they clearly took advantage of the difficult economic situation and, although they did not give a loan, they bought Su-35S and S-400.

                    They just bought what they needed.
                    And they were VERY happy with the purchases.
                    Quote: mvg
                    They sold us military microelectronics, despite the sanctions, diesel, machine tools, turbines.

                    And in return they received: an early warning system, the latest Su-35 fighters with two (!) Sets of spare engines for them, large batches of aircraft engines, the latest S-400 air defense missile systems, rocket engine technology ...
                    These were counter deliveries of what is critical for us and for them, respectively.
                    Quote: mvg
                    S-919 got on the wing earlier, costs less,

                    This is not true, this aircraft has a lot of serious flaws and it did not get on the wing. Especially earlier. Forgot about the cracks in the wings and fuselage?
                    Quote: mvg
                    And the composite for the wing was purchased from the MC-21 in Japan.

                    Already produced in Russia.
                    And it is from this - the Russian composite, that the wings and tail of the CR-929 should be made, and the assembly itself should be carried out in China.
                    Quote: mvg
                    The IL-76 is inferior in performance characteristics to their transport aircraft both in terms of carrying capacity and range.

                    So far, these are only Chinese Wishlist - the plane is in trial operation. And how can there be a greater carrying capacity with engines 20 - 25% weaker than those of the Il-76MD90A? This is only taking off with an emergency supply of fuel (for 15 minutes of flight) and immediately - landing. But with new engines, it may show the declared characteristics, but ... again, with a large underfill of fuel.
                    However, this is also done on other aircraft. The same Il-76MD90A with full tanks has a carrying capacity of 52 tons, but with underfilling - 60 tons. But in the Chinese case, the underfilling will be greater.
                    Quote: mvg
                    And the MS-21 will still be certified for 2-3 years.

                    But its serial production has already started - the first serial boards are already on the assembly line.
                    Quote: mvg
                    Aegis shoots down anti-ship missiles such as Granite P-700 and Vulcan, like Uranus. SAMP-T and Goalkeepers with Phalanx also work well

                    I meant DBK "Bastion" with "Onyxes".
                    Which in the future will be able to shoot with "Zircons".
                    In any case, the fire coverage of the water areas will be provided. This will allow waiting for new surface ships.
                    Quote: mvg
                    Moreover, it is possible to constantly keep Hawkeye and Sentry in the air. Out of the air defense coverage area.

                    For these purposes, there is a MiG-31 with long-range missiles, the seeker of which is capable of being guided in a passive mode - to the radiation source.

                    I repeat - in the Far East we need to rely only on our own strength. We have no allies in the region. Let us be strong, allies will appear.
                    But China will always (!) Be only a neighbor.
                    And a trading partner.
                    No more .
                    He decided that.
                    And attempts to get him an ally will be perceived by him as our weakness.
                    And the weak are beaten and taken away what they want.
                    We don't need such an ally.
                    But you need to trade.
                    And have normal good-neighborly relations.
                    No more .
                    1. mvg
                      mvg 9 February 2021 01: 15
                      -3
                      С919

                      http://www.ato.ru/content/kitayskiy-samolet-s919-operedil-ms-21
                      Took off earlier, is cheaper. MS-21 for Russia. At the international level, it will lose unfair competition to Boeing and Basu.
                      IL-76MD90A

                      https://www.aex.ru/news/2020/12/7/220369/
                      WS-20, more powerful than D-30-KP2. 66 tons, against 50, for the same range. Maybe they are lying, but there are many sources, for example, the Nevsky Front, aviation ...
                      For these purposes, there is a MiG-31 with long-range missiles.

                      The capabilities of the MiG-31 are greatly exaggerated. Of the 500 boards produced in the USSR, about a hundred are in service. 60 have been upgraded. The machines are 20 ++ years old. It seems that long-range missiles have learned to shoot down with anti-missiles. I see no problem for the AIM-9X. I do not like the MiG-31, it serves out of despair. The Americans quickly gave up on clean interceptors, and other countries didn't even do it.
                      I meant DBK "Bastion" with "Onyxes"

                      I saw videos of how Mosquito was shot down. Israel shot down Bramos Barak-8.
                      PS: There are no allies for a long time. The CSTO is useless. Neither Belarus nor Kazakhstan will climb. SNF only
                      1. bayard
                        bayard 9 February 2021 09: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: mvg
                        Took off earlier, is cheaper. MS-21 for Russia. At the international level, it will lose unfair competition to Boeing and Basu.

                        The difference of several weeks-months is not at all critical (for the first flight). Due to the delays of the Chinese liner (cracks), the main set of tests of the MC-21 passed earlier and was ready to launch the series with the PW-1400 earlier, but unfair competition and a ban on the supply of composites made their changes.
                        But we already have our own composite.
                        Serial production has started.
                        Fixed orders with an advance payment - 175 boards.
                        Orders under agreements of intent - at least 150.
                        In fact, there are more people who want to, but until the launch of the MS-21 in mass production and full certification, new agreements are not concluded.
                        And this is useless, if the existing ones (175 + 150) are enough for 5 - 10 years of work. Production capacities are not planned to be prohibitive - at the maximum (which still needs to be reached) up to 70 units are planned. in year .
                        The list of orders, for example, does not include about 200 - 300 aircraft for Iran (and another 100 - 150 Superjets), because they need liners with a purely Russian configuration. They are still waiting.
                        The Chinese will be cheaper at the price, but he has a duralumin wing, and this is the quality of the flow, and as a result, the lower fuel efficiency.
                        And the Chinese base model takes fewer passengers. So the return from one passenger seat will not be better, but during operation the MS-21 should show (and confirmed by tests) the best economy.
                        But China is building primarily for its domestic market.
                        On the contrary, we have about 50/50% (internal / external market). In terms of quality, it will quite compete with Boeing and Airbus, but not in terms of production capacity.
                        Quote: mvg
                        WS-20, more powerful than D-30-KP2. 66 tons, against 50, for the same range.

                        Of course, more powerful, because nothing was sold to China except the D-30-KP2, and if we equate the new Chinese transport aircraft with the old Il-76, then yes. And if with the Il-76MD90A, then already about parity. Moreover, the Chinese transporter is still in trial operation. It has a larger fuselage and a larger cargo compartment. It will not lift 66 tons with D-30 engines, except to take off with an emergency supply of fuel - for the very fact of fixing the takeoff with such a load.
                        In turn, the Il-76 for its glider and the size of the cargo compartment, have a swing. lifting capacity 60 tons, a very good indicator.
                        I repeat - the Chinese fuselage is much larger. Get a normal engine - it will fly well and possibly for a long time.
                        And the Chinese, in addition to the transport aircraft, put the D-30 on their bombers - copies of our Tu-16s.
                        Quote: mvg
                        The capabilities of the MiG-31 are greatly exaggerated.

                        Quote: mvg
                        The machines are 20 ++ years old.

                        This is exactly the interceptor.
                        Not multifunctional for mobile combat.
                        He can keep the speed of 20 km / h for 25 - 2500 minutes, quickly reach the line of interception (launch missiles) and just as quickly get out of the attack after the attack.
                        And this is the base for the MiG-31K.
                        Quote: mvg
                        It seems that long-range missiles have learned to shoot down with anti-missiles. I see no problem for the AIM-9X.

                        And who will shoot down?
                        "Hawkeye"?
                        Or cover fighters?
                        A pair of MiG-31s ​​with long-range attackers is enough for the Hawaiian and the fighter wing. Full salvo - 4 pcs. on fighters and 4 pcs. on "Hokai" and ... the prospects are not at all so bright. The fighters may turn out, but the "Hawkeye" is unlikely - the cover will not be up to them in these seconds.
                        Quote: mvg
                        I do not like the MiG-31, it serves out of despair.

                        As an interceptor and carrier of the "Dagger" it is quite in place. And for another 15 years it will be quite relevant, in demand and useful.
                        Quote: mvg
                        I saw videos of how Mosquito was shot down. Israel shot down Bramos Barak-8.

                        It depends on what profile the flight will be.
                        And they certainly didn't shoot down Zircon.
                        But "Bastion" is quite capable of "Zircon".
                        Quote: mvg
                        Allies are long gone.

                        As the Union died, there are no allies either. This is dialectic.
                        Quote: mvg
                        The CSTO is useless.

                        I wouldn't say that. It is useful for the participating countries to have a Russian military roof. It is beneficial for Russia to have calm southern borders. And a buffer in the form of Belarus.
                        Quote: mvg
                        Neither Belarus nor Kazakhstan will climb.

                        If the war is in the east, then the mustachioed hut will be far on the edge. But the fact that Kazakhs and Russians (the population of Kazakhstan) have already agreed to become Chinese is news to me. Although the Chinese are trying hard in this regard ... but they are usually not believed.
                        They do not believe everywhere.
                        And they don't.
                        And rightly so - the Chinese expansion will be tougher than the Anglo-Saxon one.
                        Quote: mvg
                        SNF only

                        yes Including TNW, RSD and special ammunition of special power on special carriers.
                      2. mvg
                        mvg 9 February 2021 12: 39
                        0
                        because China did not sell anything except D-30-KP2

                        Because there was nothing to sell. PD-14, the first engine in 30 years. And the D-30 is already under 40 years old. The PRC bought it, because neither the Americans nor the frogs sold them anything.
                        (and another 100 - 150 "Superjets"), because they need liners with a purely Russian configuration

                        The phrase for SuperJets, where up to 50% of the components are imported.
                        And the D-30, in addition to the transport aircraft, the Chinese also put on their bombers - copies of our Tu-16

                        Not so, they have their own WP-8 engines, and are based on a different engine.
                        A pair of MiG-31s ​​with long-range attackers is enough for the Hawaiian and the fighter wing. Full salvo - 4 pcs. on fighters and 4 pcs. on "Hokai" and ... the prospects are not at all so bright

                        How simple it is for you. wink and the adversaries are completely fools. By the way, the F-15 also has a speed of 2500 ++ and it also holds it for 10-15 minutes. The AIM-120D is slightly inferior in range to the KS-172 (which does not exist) and has much greater overloads. For the MiG-31 with its 5G is enough.
                        E-3D with a vision range of 500-600 km will see a couple of moments 10-15 minutes earlier. When cruising 900 km / h and 400 km / h. There will be a lot of time to make a decision.
                        And this is the base for the MiG-31K.

                        Again, out of despair. Tu-22M3M looks more interesting. With 3 pieces of Daggers. Again, what role will the Daggers play in the conflict over the Kuril Islands? They work on stationary targets, but it will be necessary to destroy UDC and EM. As soon as the samurai gain a foothold on the islands, it will be unrealistic to knock them out. The adversaries will immediately come up to "normalize" the situation.
                        PS: It is our own fault that we have lost allies. Kazakhs fall under the Chinese, Belarusians rush ... Arabs are not allies, Serbs will soon enter NATU. Making friends with the strong is more interesting than with the weak and incomprehensible.
                      3. bayard
                        bayard 9 February 2021 14: 51
                        -1
                        Quote: mvg
                        Because there was nothing to sell. PD-14, the first engine in 30 years. And the D-30 is already under 40 years old. The PRC bought it, because neither the Americans nor the frogs sold them anything.

                        I would not be so categorical. You surely forgot about the PS-90A, in the case of the Il-76MD90A - PS-90A-76, with a thrust of 14,5 tons. For the Il-96, the PS-90A modification developed 17,5 tons. Such an engine would be optimal for the Chinese ( by 14,5 tons), but only the D-30 was sold to them. The experience of trading the Su-27 and Su-30 with China had taught us something by that time.
                        And what China has done now with engines is the pure merit of Ukrainian engineers from Motor Sich, who have been working hard there for more than 10 years on the birth of Chinese engine building.
                        Quote: mvg
                        The phrase for SuperJets, where up to 50% of the components are imported.

                        Now a modification of a purely Russian version of this pepelats is being prepared, where the imported version should not exceed 10%. Currently up to 70%.
                        And 50% of imported parts today have MS-21 ... or rather, already less due to domestic carbon fiber, but MS-21-310 will already be its own.
                        And here to help pre-order / request for the desire of Iran - just right. A large order for purely Russian aircraft will ensure a reliable start of production, since the internal order for the revival of the industry will not be enough.
                        Quote: mvg
                        Not so, they have their own WP-8 engines, and are based on a different engine.

                        Maybe now, but initially they were just happy to buy our D-30s for their Tu-16s. But its own, of course, is closer and more reliable - in terms of guaranteeing supplies in the future.
                        Quote: mvg
                        How simple it is with you. and the adversaries are completely fools.

                        The experience of my previous service taught me to treat the enemy with respect and attention.
                        Quote: mvg
                        By the way, the F-15 also has a speed of 2500 ++ and it also holds it for 10-15 minutes.

                        Have you yourself ever observed an F-15 at such speeds, at least 5-7 minutes? Writing 2650 km / h into the tables is easy, giving the result of a record, lightweight aircraft with overpowered engines ... They wrote the same speed in the tables for the F-111 lol , Do you believe in this too? (Real speed of F-111 2000 km / h)
                        I admit the possibility of the F-15 to accelerate to 2400 - 2500 km / h, but this is if the glider is not at all a pity and after such a flight only for repairs or for retirement - in the case of a flight at such speeds for 10 - 15 minutes.
                        And the MiG-31 (and the MiG-25 too) 2500 km / h is "cruising supersonic", the optimal speed for high-altitude supersonic flight. It can give 3000 km / h, but the temperature regime on the lamp and the edges will be already close to the threshold. He has speed limits specifically for the temperature regime, the engines allowed him to accelerate faster - up to 3200 km / h and even (they say) up to 3400 km / h, but ... the material of the glazing of the lantern could not withstand.
                        And a flight at this speed (2500 km / h) at an altitude of 20 m for 000 - 22 minutes. I observed many times during the flights of the Nasosensky regiment of our air defense division. But the flight of the F-25 at such a speed for at least 15 - 5 minutes. ... and in general - with such a speed NONE of my friends and acquaintances has ever recorded. Among the combat aircraft of the enemy, observing them over the adjacent territory.
                        And our combatants flew like that regularly.
                        Quote: mvg
                        ... AIM-120D is slightly inferior in range to KS-172 (which does not exist)

                        The R-37 has a range of 280 - 300 km, versus 170 km. True, such a missile is suitable only against low-maneuverable targets - like Hawkeye, or Sentry.
                        During such an attack, the MiG-31 itself may suffer from fighter cover fire, but the Hawkeye cannot be saved, and this bird is worth a sacrifice.
                        Quote: mvg
                        For the MiG-31 with its 5G is enough.

                        The MiG-31 only needs to reach the launch line and turn 180 degrees. , gas to capacity and rely on engines - at such a range, but they can pull it into pursuit.
                        By the way, the same "Phoenix" when firing into the rear hemisphere, the range of destruction was only 60 km. request ... for the AIM-120D it can be up to 70 km ... well, 75 ..., or maybe the same 60 - 65 km. But not 170 km. that are ONLY in the front hemisphere. And catching up with the target at 2500 - 3200 km / h is another task. bully
                        So there are chances.
                        But as one famous German marshal said, "Military science is not so difficult for a person of average ability to master it ... But fighting is DIFFICULT."
                        Quote: mvg
                        And this is the base for the MiG-31K.

                        Again, out of despair. Tu-22M3M looks more interesting. With 3 pcs Daggers

                        Three, of course, is better than one, so where can you get them - these same Tu-22M3 \ M3M? We have them for modernization, help Ahura-Mazda, collect 30 pieces - suitable for modernization according to the condition and resource of the glider. But there is a MiG-31 in storage bases, so you can get up to a hundred MiG-31K. A good reason to extend the life of a veteran.
                        Quote: mvg
                        Again, what role will the Daggers play in the conflict over the Kuril Islands? They work for stationary targets

                        These are the birthmarks for them, and will work: naval base, airbases, weapons depots, command centers and points, military and civilian infrastructure.
                        "Dagger" is the long arm of Russian retaliation, 2000 km, it is not "a ram sneezed". Especially if the warhead is not simple but "gold" - ie. special.
                        Quote: mvg
                        but it will be necessary to destroy the UDC and EM.

                        We have two divisions of coastal complexes on the disputed islands - "Bal" and "Bastion", so they will meet the enemy. And also a pair / link Su-30 \ 35 on the same islands. Also there are S-300-B4 air defense systems, "Buki", and they can also work on sea targets, albeit with direct line of sight.
                        There are submarines, including the SSGN. There is a DBK in Primorye and (possibly and highly desirable) on the shores of Sakhalin.
                        And even if, due to surprise and massiveness, they manage to capture the disputed islands, then massive strikes on the military and civil infrastructure of Japan (with the involvement of Long-Range Aviation with their X-101 \ 102 \ 555) will make the possession of these extremely troublesome, expensive and inconvenient.
                        The doctrine (military) prescribes a nuclear strike in the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of the Russian State.
                        Or you can simply blow up the "Cephalopod" with several tens of megatons near the Pacific coast of the Japanese aggressor ... and that's it ... write a requiem ... it's all earthquake - seismic instability and God's punishment.
                        In short, karma.
                        And such karma can cover not only Japan, but also other enemies of Russia.
                        So no one can guarantee the absence of tectonic activity near the British Isles and near both coasts of the United States.
                        Karma is God's Supreme Justice.
                        Ahura Mazda will not let you lie. yes
                        Quote: mvg
                        It is our own fault that we have lost allies.

                        yes The Central Committee of the CPSU and personally Mikhail Sergeevich Gorbachev.
                        All that happened afterwards was the agony after dismemberment without anesthesia.
                        The cut off members of the Union have long lived their lives.
                        But.
                        Kazakhstan is, until 1935, Kazakstan (Cossack Stan) as part of the RSFSR.
                        He never entered the USSR, which means he could not leave.
                        It exists in historical Russian lands.
                        To China \ to China, it can go only with its own population, by returning the Uighurs and Dzungars to East Turkestan.
            2. Grits
              Grits 9 February 2021 08: 23
              0
              Quote: bayard
              Similar DBKs in Primorye, Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands cover most of the theater. But target designation, again, will be critical.

              I live in Primorye. Therefore, I know that more or less developed road infrastructure is available only in the south of the region. And the DBK moves along the roads, not through the fields, and even more so not along the hills with taiga. Even if you have a couple of such DBKs in Primorye, you will have to choose where to base it. And this will be 100% southern part - where they can be transferred along the roads. - the area from Khasan to Nakhodka. The rest of the coast of the Sea of ​​Japan is a separate exit point closer to the sea. District Olga, Dalnegorsk, Plastun. And transferring them between these points is associated with large marches across the territory of the region. And further north - to the Sov. Harbors are generally a wilderness. Further north, I’m not speaking at all.
              so if this is Bastion, then it’s all right, but if it’s a ball, then everything is quite problematic. In the absence of NK, most of the coast of Primorye is open to the adversary.
              1. bayard
                bayard 9 February 2021 10: 23
                -1
                Quote: Gritsa
                so if this is Bastion, then it’s all right, but if it’s a ball, then everything is quite problematic.

                Of course we are talking about "Bastion". One division is deployed on the disputed islands (disputed for the Japanese), together with the Bala division, one in Primorye and another in Kamchatka.
                If we place another one in the south of Sakhalin, then the coverage of the water areas will be quite serious. A "Ball" and older models, this is perhaps for landing ships or used in a joint volley with the "Bastions" - to finish off the surviving and overload the air defense systems of enemy ships.
                And when the "Bastions" are completed with new "Zircons", or the brigades of the DBK are supplemented with new divisions with these missiles, it will become noticeably more fun. And there the ships will catch up.
                But target designation issues must be resolved as soon as possible. And if there are problems with the construction of specialized aircraft, then drones should be in sufficient quantity.
          2. Connor MacLeod
            Connor MacLeod 9 February 2021 00: 39
            0
            Quote: mvg
            We must bend a joint line with China. It will be hard for one.

            Well, the fact of the matter is that most of the enemy's forces will be diverted to China.

            Quote: mvg
            And there will be a mess.

            When? Are you so sure about that?
            1. mvg
              mvg 9 February 2021 16: 15
              0
              that most of the enemy's forces will be diverted to China

              Japan will not climb China. But the Kuril Islands samurai can try to squeeze out. Moreover, there is a% successful. A scenario a la Timokhin is likely
              Are you so sure about this?

              And what, in the XX century there were years without troubles? A lot of? They fought always and everywhere. BV, Africa, Europe, Asia. Two world wars. And now there is a lull: Palestine, Syria ... Libya ... the wrong scale.
  • jonht
    jonht 8 February 2021 13: 19
    +6
    Of course, it is better to host it this year in Kamchatka, but even if it happens next year .... It's still much better than nothing. So let's wait.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 8 February 2021 13: 31
    -1
    I'm wondering how the caliber missiles will ensure the safety of navigation on the Northern Sea Route? Will the Chukchi terrorist camp be covered? after all, there are essentially no other goals.
    Or is the goal still different - in the Japanese sea butting with the American, Chinese, Japanese and Korean fleets?
    1. bayard
      bayard 8 February 2021 17: 53
      +2
      If based on Kamchatka, what is the Sea of ​​Japan?
      Ensuring the withdrawal and deployment of SSBNs in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and covering the zone of their deployment.
      Plus support for basic aircraft.
      1. yehat2
        yehat2 8 February 2021 19: 24
        0
        I repeat the question - for which of these purposes is a caliber rocket needed?
        it, in fact, can hit only on the ground at a static target, and even is usually used at a very long range, at which the fleet simply cannot detect anything.
        1. bayard
          bayard 8 February 2021 19: 54
          +1
          The Kalibr missiles have several modifications, incl. in the PLUR option.
          And with the classic "Caliber" you can, if you wish, "venerate the naval base on the Japanese islands.
          Will get it.
          But this is not their main purpose, it’s just that it’s fashionable to talk and write about it - journalists. request
          1. yehat2
            yehat2 8 February 2021 21: 15
            +1
            PLUR is great.
            And now a question for an encore - can at least one ship in the Far East more than 50 km detect a submarine?
            If not, but really not, then why do they need a PLUR? Especially in ice?
            And about modifications. The caliber does not imply active maneuvering, stupidly static targets, even if the aiming head is fancy.
            And we come back to the beginning - the ship is not at all to protect the Northern Sea Route. Poorly, he will cope with the protection of our strategic submarines. For patrolling - too expensive and redundant unit, with cut off autonomy and obviously not superb crew conditions. He will have other tasks.
            1. bayard
              bayard 8 February 2021 22: 23
              0
              Quote: yehat2
              And now a question for an encore - can at least one ship in the Far East more than 50 km detect a submarine?

              Own SJSC, including BUGAS?
              Most likely not - less than 50 km. But he has a helicopter, the data can be from the bottom sensor fields (and they were deployed), so it is much better to have a PLUR than not to have, because his own torpedoes ("Packet-NK") have a range of only 20 km.
              But, of course, no more than 4 pieces. in BC.
              The rest 4 pcs. wiser to have an anti-ship missile - the same "Onyx".
              And of course this ship is not for the Northern Sea Route, for such tasks ice-class ships are needed. Corvettes must protect the naval base and withdraw submarines from the bases to the areas of combat deployment.
              And of course "Barrier" is redundant for a ship of this class. First of all, on the price, here I completely agree with Klimov and Timokhin.
  • next322
    next322 8 February 2021 13: 31
    +3
    [What is the source of the lime found in the Ministry of Defense, with whom did her journalist drink on the weekend?
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 8 February 2021 13: 57
      0
      "Agile" on the slipway. Launched "Zealous" and "Strict", and the descent of "Strict" was technical, he needs to install a superstructure.
      Coordinates of "Agile"
      59°52'35.9"N 30°13'29.0"E
      Kirovsky district, Saint Petersburg
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 8 February 2021 14: 15
        +2
        Quote: Bashkirkhan
        "Agile" on the slipway

        In general, nothing is clear, the crew was formed in January of this year, the crew still needs to go through the training center ....... and Agile has already finished the mooring !!! ?????
        1. Bashkirkhan
          Bashkirkhan 8 February 2021 16: 16
          +2
          Quote: Serg65
          Nimble has already finished mooring !!! ????

          That is all nonsense.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 8 February 2021 13: 43
    +2
    Technomashholding buys from Rolls Royce a plant in Norway for the production of Bergen Engin engines. Range from 1,5 to 11,8 Mg / w. It may introduce a new one at its Kolomna plant from the Norwegian experience. It should be more fun to go production of diesel engines for the Navy, only the United States would not fit into the deal fellow
    1. bayard
      bayard 8 February 2021 17: 55
      +2
      Quote: tralflot1832
      , if only the United States did not fit into the deal

      These will definitely fit. But trying, still not torture.
  • Sevastiec
    Sevastiec 8 February 2021 14: 18
    0
    I’m wondering: not a small speed for littoral ships? After all, in theory, they have an ASW as their main purpose, and they will not be able to catch up with the submarine. Do not have enough power plant?
    1. Bashkirkhan
      Bashkirkhan 8 February 2021 17: 56
      +3
      A helicopter on board is provided for these purposes.
    2. bayard
      bayard 8 February 2021 17: 56
      +3
      That's right - we don't.
      When Kolomna is born with a diesel engine of 10 hp, everything will sparkle with completely different colors.
      Well, for now, we have what we have.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 8 February 2021 14: 43
    0
    Well, they will finish it, seven photos for him under the keel and let him say hello to the Japanese, big and fat. laughing
  • yehat2
    yehat2 8 February 2021 23: 16
    0
    Quote: bayard
    And of course "Barrier" is redundant for a ship of this class.

    but here I disagree. For one ship - yes, but if we consider it as an element of coastal defense, then no - just this system is very relevant, especially since it does not eat up the entire space on the ship and it can already be called serial, which reduces the cost. This is where I approve of what they did.
    But I agree that there is a certain imbalance. The ship still needs a more pronounced specialization - either it is an URO ship or an anti-submarine monster. And I mean not the nominal anti-submarine capability, but the best equipment - a new towed acoustic complex, PLUR, new torpedoes that will have much better energy than the old ones (we have been significantly lagging behind in recent years in this area), the anti-submarine helicopter is not weaker than the Ka-28, buoy stock, etc.
  • Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 9 February 2021 00: 07
    -1
    They would call it "Shustrik".
    Rolling, sharp and loud.
    And also boldly.