Military Review

What was Stalin guided by during the repressions in the 30s

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In the second half of the 20s, Stalin completely defeated both the left and the right opposition (Stalin's fierce struggle for power in the turning 20s), who opposed his course of building socialism in a single country, which was based on industrialization on the basis of a mobilization economy and complete collectivization. The implementation of this course came with a colossal exertion of the forces of the entire society and caused discontent among the population with the extremely difficult situation in the country. Which, of course, created threats both for the policy pursued by him and for his personal power.


It should not be forgotten that the creation of a mobilization economy in the Soviet Union was one of Stalin's most important achievements. By his course, he laid the foundations for the future military and economic might of a state capable of resisting military aggression and conducting business on an equal footing with the leading powers of the West. Industrialization laid the foundation for a great future for the country and the place of the Soviet Union in the club of great powers throughout the whole historical era.

Pursuing a tough policy with inevitable costs, he understood that the further and more successfully he advances in solving his problems, suppressing the resistance of opponents, the wider the circle of his real and potential opponents becomes. Defeated and publicly repentant opponents from among the left and right did not at all come to terms with their defeat.

The fight against defeated opponents has moved to another phase.

The tactics chosen by Stalin in the 20s to gradually form his image as an exemplary leader, based on collegiality and the first among equals, changed in the early 30s.

Now the image of the sole leader began to be imposed. Every year propaganda expanded the campaign to exalt the leader, emphasizing his wisdom, iron will and unshakable firmness in carrying out the general line of the party.

To oppose Stalin meant to oppose the party line. And he did everything possible to be perceived as a person fulfilling the historical mission that befell him.

Elimination of the kulaks as a class


The remnants of the defeated left and right opposition still posed some kind of threat to Stalin's political course. Moreover, collectivization was not completed. And the calls of Bukharin and the Rights to take into account the interests of the peasantry forced Stalin to act carefully so as not to provoke resistance from the countryside.

He proceeded from the premise that the success of collectivization will largely depend on whether or not it will be possible to break the opposition of the kulaks and sweep them off the historical stage. They also represented a serious force. In 1927, there were 1,1 million kulak farms in the country, which sowed 15% of the country's sown area. And they were not going to give up.

In December 1929, Stalin decided to strike a decisive blow against the kulaks. And he announced the transition from a policy of limiting exploitative tendencies in the countryside to a policy of eliminating the kulaks as a class.

In January 1930, the Politburo ruled

"On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization"

according to which the kulaks were divided into three categories.

The first category - the organizers of anti-Soviet demonstrations and terrorist acts were subject to isolation by court decision. Second, big kulaks were moved to sparsely populated regions of the country. And the third - the rest of the kulaks, they moved to lands outside the collective farms.

This decree gave broad powers on the ground in determining who was subject to dispossession. And it created the preconditions for abuse.

In 1930-1931, 381 families with a total number of 026 people were sent to special resettlement. This campaign provoked resistance in the village. And it became a tragedy for the well-to-do peasantry, which was liquidated. She equalized everyone in rights - on the collective farms.

Stalin did this deliberately; he sought to eliminate the last exploiting class and redistribute resources from the countryside to industry, expanding the possibilities for industrialization.

Fighting non-systemic opposition


In the early 30s, Stalin's policies were often opposed in secret. It was a series of small party groupings that demonstrated that not everyone in the party agrees with the leader's course.

Syrtsov block. A candidate member of the Politburo, Syrtsov, in his entourage began to express dissatisfaction with Stalin personally. He drew attention to the abnormality of the situation in the work of the Politburo, where all questions are predetermined by Stalin and those close to him. From Stalin's point of view, this was unacceptable. Syrtsov was accused of creating

“Factional underground groups”.

And in December 1930, he and a number of high-ranking functionaries were expelled from the Central Committee for factionalism in the party.

Smirnov's group. In January 1933, the group of Smirnov, the former secretary of the Central Committee in charge of agriculture and directly facing the dire consequences of collectivization, was declared counter-revolutionary and was completely defeated, which actively opposed Stalin's policy. For the creation of an "underground factional group" in order to change the policy in the field of industrialization and collectivization, they were expelled from the party.

Ryutin's platform. The low-level party functionary Ryutin and his group in their platform (1932) in a concentrated form put forward the main political accusations against Stalin. This document can be considered the most complete and well-reasoned anti-Stalinist manifesto.

“Stalin was never a real, genuine leader, but it was all the easier for him in the course of events to turn into a real dictator.

He came to his present undivided domination by cunning combinations, relying on a handful of people and apparatus loyal to him, and by fooling the masses ...

People who do not know how to think in Marxism think that the elimination of Stalin will at the same time be the overthrow of Soviet power.

Stalin cultivates and spreads this view in every possible way.

But he is absolutely wrong. "

Ryutin for

"Counter-revolutionary propaganda and agitation"

in October 1930 he was expelled from the party.

But he did not stop his activities. And he created a group of like-minded people. But he was soon arrested.

At a meeting of the Polyutburo, Stalin proposed to shoot Ryutin. But in the end he was left in prison. Where in 1937 they shot him without trial.

Small political groups could in no way influence the policy of the strengthened Stalin. And he quickly (still "softly") dealt with them.

The suicide of Stalin's wife


Soon two important events took place in Stalin's life: the suicide of his wife Nadezhda Alliluyeva (November 1932) and the assassination of Kirov (December 1934), which undoubtedly left an indelible stamp on all of Stalin's further activities.

The death of his wife became a watershed in his fate. And hardened him to the extreme. Made it even more suspicious and distrustful. Strengthened his feelings of irreconcilability and rigidity. The personal tragedy of the leader was transformed into his merciless attitude towards real and imaginary enemies.

His wife was more than twenty years younger than him. She had a strong character. And they really loved each other. But Stalin, due to his workload, could not pay due attention to his young wife. Nadezhda developed a serious illness - ossification of the cranial sutures, accompanied by depression and headache attacks. All this had a noticeable effect on her mental state. Plus she was very jealous. And more than once she threatened to commit suicide.

According to Molotov's recollections, another quarrel occurred at Voroshilov's apartment, where they celebrated on November 7. Stalin rolled a lump of bread and in front of everyone threw it into Marshal Yegorov's wife. Nadezhda was in an agitated state after a quarrel with her husband that had taken place the day before because of his delay with the hairdresser. She reacted sharply to this "lump" and got up from the table. Together with Polina Zhemchuzhina (Molotov's wife), she then walked around the Kremlin for a long time.

In the morning, Stalin found her shooting herself with a pistol that her brother had given her.

There is a version that Stalin considered the Pearl one of the reasons for his wife's death. And in 1949 he treated her harshly. She was sent to the camps for contact with "Jewish nationalists".

After the death of his wife, Stalin experienced a deep internal crisis. He moderated his public activity, spoke little and often remained silent. Many researchers believe that it was this circumstance that prompted the leader to a cruel reprisal against his already defeated opponents.

Since November 1932, another purge was announced in the party with the aim of

"To ensure in the party iron proletarian discipline and to cleanse the party ranks of all unreliable, unstable and attached elements."
This especially affected those who spoke (or could act) against the general line.

In total, in 1932-1933, about 450 thousand people were expelled from the party.

In May 1933, on Stalin's initiative, the ominous decision "On the OGPU Troikas" was adopted. In the republics, territories and regions, they have so far been prohibited from passing death sentences.

Kirov's assassination


The assassination of Kirov (a member of the Politburo and a personal friend of Stalin) was a fundamental turning point in the country's development. And a turning point in Stalin's organization of mass repressions, the consequences of which were so massive that they left a deep mark on the life of an entire generation.

Kirov was killed on December 1, 1934 in Leningrad in Smolny with a pistol shot. There were many versions that the murder was organized by Stalin to eliminate his rival. This version was especially promoted by Khrushchev.

Later studies proved that the murder was committed by Nikolaev, who was distinguished by a scandalous character and conflicts with his superiors. For which, during the purge, he was expelled from the party and tried to recover with the help of Kirov.

His pretty wife Milda Draule worked in Smolny and was the mistress of Kirov, who was reputed to be a passionate admirer of women. Using his party card, Nikolaev entered Smolny and, out of jealousy, shot Kirov with a premium pistol. It was unacceptable to admit the murder of one of the leaders of the party for the banal reason of seducing someone else's wife. And, naturally, they began to look for another reason.

Stalin immediately decided to use this murder for the purpose of reprisals against his opponents. And he left for Leningrad. By taking over the lead in the investigation, he was able to set it on the path he had already envisioned.

He instructed Yezhov, who oversees the work of the NKVD:

"Look for killers among the Zinovievites."

Guided by this, the NKVD artificially tied Nikolaev with the former members of the Zinoviev opposition. He falsified the criminal cases of the "Leningrad" and "Moscow" centers, the "Leningrad counter-revolutionary group", the "Trotskyist bloc", the "united" and "parallel" centers.

At the direction of the leader, a resolution of the CEC of December 1, 1934 was developed and published

"On the procedure for conducting cases on the preparation or commission of terrorist acts."

The law prescribed to complete the investigation of cases of terrorist organizations within ten days, to consider cases in court without the participation of prosecution and defense, not to admit cassation and petitions for clemency, and to execute sentences of execution immediately.

In the course of this case, Stalin planned to create the necessary basis for declaring the supporters of Trotsky and Zinoviev not as ideological fighters, but as a gang of assassins and agents of foreign intelligence services. The corresponding preparatory work was entrusted to Yezhov.

After the appropriate "processing" Nikolaev began to give the necessary evidence. In Leningrad, Moscow and other cities, mass arrests of former Zinovievites and members of other opposition groups in the past began. Zinoviev and Kamenev were arrested and convoyed to Leningrad. From the arrested, by threats and promises to alleviate their fate, they obtained testimony about the existence of the "Leningrad Center" and the "Moscow Center" associated with it and recognition of political and moral responsibility for the crime committed by Nikolayev. In the end, such recognition was received from Zinoviev and Kamenev.

Stalin personally selected 23 people from the 14 arrested for the trial in the Leningrad Center case, while deleting the names of Zinoviev, Kamenev and other oppositionists, who were later convicted in the Moscow Center case.

On December 29, 1934, the military collegium of the Supreme Court sentenced all the accused in the "Leningrad Center" to death. And on January 16, 1935, in the Moscow Center case, Zinoviev, Kamenev and other oppositionists were sentenced to imprisonment for terms of five to ten years.

In the two and a half months after Kirov's murder, 843 people were arrested in the Leningrad Region. And from Leningrad, 663 family members of the repressed were sent to the north of Siberia and to Yakutia.

In January 1935, a letter from the Central Committee was sent to all party organizations, which emphasized that the ideological and political leader of the Leningrad Center was the Moscow Center, which knew about the terrorist sentiments of the Leningrad Center and inflamed these sentiments. Both "centers" were united by a common Trotskyite-Zinovievist platform, which aims to achieve high posts in the party and government.

At the same time, during this period, the number of arrests on charges of preparing terrorist acts increased significantly. If for the whole of 1934 6 people were arrested, then in 501 there were already 1935 people. Also, the rise of the ominous figure of Yezhov, whom Stalin had already planned to replace Yagoda, began.

"Kremlin affair" or the case of cleaning ladies


In July 1935, NKVD officers falsified the "Kremlin case" about counterrevolutionary terrorist groups in the government library and the Kremlin commandant's office, according to which 110 people were convicted, two of them were sentenced to death. In this case, the Kremlin's security officers, employees of the government library, employees and technical personnel of the Kremlin were involved, who allegedly were preparing the assassination of Stalin.

One of the tasks was to substantiate the future accusation of Kamenev and tie it to his brother's ex-wife, who worked in the Kremlin library and is involved in this case.

In fact, this was a case against a friend of Stalin's underground youth, CEC secretary Abel Yenukidze, who more than once stood up in defense of persons discredited by Stalin and by that time had begun to more actively express doubts about the correctness of his actions.

It became clear that Stalin did not stop even before the elimination of his former closest friends. Yenukidze was accused of political and domestic corruption and transferred to peripheral work. And in 1937 he was arrested and charged with treason and espionage. And in October 1937 he was shot by a court sentence.

The Stalinist policy of the mid-30s was ambivalent and contradictory.

On the one hand, there has been a colossal economic and social breakthrough. A qualitatively new level of the country's defense capability. An unprecedented growth in the education and culture of the people. And a noticeable improvement in the material situation of the population. The new Constitution (1936) declared and enshrined democratic norms and basic social and political rights of citizens.

On the other hand, it was during this period that the preparations for large-scale repressions and purges took place. And also conditions were prepared for Stalin to carry out not political, but physical elimination of his real and potential opponents.

The first trial of the "Anti-Soviet United Trotskyite-Zinoviev Center"


Stalin decided not only to finally deal with his main opponents Zinoviev and Kamenev, but through an open trial to present them as terrorists and murderers. The trial should have become unusual, since Lenin's closest associates and, in the recent past, the most prominent leaders of the party and the country were in the dock. Society was already prepared for the impending conviction of the accused.

As a preparatory act, the Central Committee sent a letter in which new facts of the criminal acts of the Zinoviev group and their role in terrorist activities were revealed. Zinoviev and Kamenev had to confirm in an open trial that, under Trotsky's leadership, they were preparing the assassination of Stalin and other members of the Politburo.

Despite the resistance of Zinoviev and Kamenev, Yezhov and Yagoda managed to convince them that their lives would be spared and their relatives would not be subjected to reprisals if they admit that they were preparing their own terrorist and anti-Soviet actions at Trotsky's instructions. The suffering of Zinoviev and Kamenev ended, their conditions of detention were improved. And the doctors began to treat them. They believed that if in court they recognized the organization of the crimes imputed to them, they would remain alive.

The court performance took place in August 1936, in which all the accused pleaded guilty to the creation of numerous terrorist organizations throughout the country with the aim of assassinating Stalin and other leaders. And they did it with some kind of readiness incomprehensible to a normal person and, as it were, with a sense of fulfillment of a high duty. They seemed to be competing with each other to make themselves look their worst. The public prosecutor demanded

"So that the mad dogs were shot - one and all."

And all 16 defendants were sentenced to death.

Before his execution, Zinoviev humiliatedly pleaded with Stalin to call and save his life. But the Moloch could no longer be stopped. On the basis of this process, in 1936 more than 160 people were arrested and shot, allegedly preparing terrorist acts throughout the country.

The second trial of the "Parallel Anti-Soviet Trotskyist Center"


To expand the scale of repressions and purge already unnecessary executors, Stalin needed another person as head of the NKVD.

In September 1936, Yagoda was replaced by the secretary of the Central Committee, Yezhov. Stalin knew him as a person not burdened with feelings of pity, compassion and justice. He was, without exaggeration, a sadist. In addition, on a personal level, Yezhov was tied hand and foot, since he was an alcoholic and a homosexual.

The main task in the second half of 1936 for Yezhov was the preparation and conduct in January 1937 of the second large show trial, in which there were seventeen accused. The main figures were Pyatakov, Serebryakov, Radek and Sokolnikov. The defendants were accused of trying to overthrow the Soviet regime, for which they allegedly launched widespread sabotage, espionage and terrorist activities.

Those arrested during the investigation were subjected to the same procedure of intimidation, provocation and interrogation with partiality. To persuade those under investigation to confess in the press, a change in the criminal law was published, which allowed them to count on the preservation of life in the event of a frank confession of their crimes. Many believed this, giving the evidence required of them. And they did this, in their words, in the interests of exposing and defeating Trotskyism.

So Radek at the trial asserted:

"I admitted my guilt based on an assessment of the overall benefit that this truth should bring."

And Pyatakov, in particular, made a proposal on his own to allow him to personally shoot all those sentenced to death. Including his ex-wife. And publish it in print.

The court sentenced Pyatakov, Serebryakov, Muralov and ten other defendants to be shot. Sokolnikov and Radek, as well as two other minor characters in this judicial performance, received 10 years in prison. But in May 1939, they were killed by inmates in prison.

The case of the "Anti-Soviet Trotskyist military organization" (the Tukhachevsky case)


In the process of clearing the political field, Stalin could not ignore the army, where they were able to prepare and carry out a real conspiracy.

By the beginning of 1937, preparations began for the purge in the top leadership of the army, since the thought of serious opposition to his political course could well wander there.

The candidate for the head of the conspirators was Marshal Tukhachevsky, who was in conflict with Voroshilov and more than once expressed unflattering epithets to the "former cavalryman" in his close circle. Dissatisfaction and criticism is one thing, and plotting a conspiracy is quite another. But the marshal with Bonapartist manners and his entourage fit the wave of conspirators.

Back in 1930, the arrested teachers of the Military Academy. Frunze Kakurin and Troitsky testified against Tukhachevsky. Allegedly, he is waiting for a favorable environment for seizing power and establishing a military dictatorship. And he allegedly has many supporters in military circles.

The confrontations carried out with the presence of Stalin himself proved Tukhachevsky's innocence. But the ground for suspicion about the marshal remained. In addition, false material was planted about his ties with Germany, since he was in contact with German generals on duty.

In April 1937, Stalin made serious changes in the generals: Tukhachevsky was sent to command the Volga Military District, Marshal Yegorov was appointed First Deputy People's Commissar of Defense, Chief of the General Staff - Shaposhnikov, Yakir was transferred to command the Leningrad District.

Participants of the "conspiracy" at the suggestion of the Politburo were arrested in May on charges of participation in the "anti-Soviet Trotskyist-right bloc" and espionage in favor of Nazi Germany. The indictment stated that the "Trotskyist military center", whose leadership included Tukhachevsky, Gamarnik, Uborevich, Yakir and other military leaders, on the direct instructions of the German General Staff and Trotsky, with the support of the Bukharin-Rykov group of rightists, was engaged in sabotage, sabotage, terror and the overthrow of the government and the seizure of power in order to restore capitalism in the USSR.

The military conspiracy case was heard at a closed court hearing on June 11, 1937 by the Special Court Presence, which included Blucher and Budyonny. After the reading of the indictment, all the defendants pleaded guilty.

The universal confession of the accused in all trials was very surprised even in Germany. They assumed that they were injected with some kind of drug. And they instructed intelligence to find out. But everything turned out to be trite easier. Stalin was simply well versed in people. And he knew their weaknesses.

On the day of the trial, by order of Stalin, instructions were sent to the republics, territories and regions to organize meetings and pass resolutions on the need to apply capital punishment. Naturally, all the accused were subjected to angry condemnation and curses. The court sentenced all eight of the accused to death, which was carried out the next day.

After the trial of Tukhachevsky, 980 senior commanders and political workers were arrested (as participants in a military conspiracy).

In total, in 1937-1939, 9 officers were arrested for political reasons. And 579 17 people were repressed. Of these, 981 were dismissed from the army, which is just over 8% of the payroll of the commanders of the Red Army.

Stalin understood perfectly well that it was impossible to decapitate the army before the war, which he considered inevitable. And he knew the real price of the heroes of the Civil War and the reputation of the military leaders inflated by propaganda who fell into the millstones of the "conspiracy". And he was ready to sacrifice them.

The third trial of the anti-Soviet "bloc of Rights and Trotskyites"


The trial over the military shocked the entire country.

But Stalin's plans also included holding a public process that would become a kind of crown of this entire campaign. And the central figures in it were to be Bukharin and Rykov.

The process was supposed to demonstrate the complete and unconditional bankruptcy of all the former political opponents of the leader. They were supposed to appear before the whole country not as political opponents, but as a group of political bandits, spies, united in a kind of common Trotskyist conspiracy, in which Trotsky played a major role, and Bukharin, Rykov and others danced to his tune.

At the March 1937 plenum, on the eve of which Ordzhonikidze committed suicide, the persecution of Bukharin's group continued.

Stalin toughly and consistently pursued a course of their unconditional expulsion from the party and criminal prosecution. They were unfoundedly accused of not abandoning their political and hostile beliefs to the country, standing on the platform of capitalist restoration in the USSR, preparing to overthrow the Stalinist leadership and entering a bloc with Trotskyists, Zinovievists, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Mensheviks and other factional groups, and switched to methods terror and the organization of an armed uprising.

There was even a far-fetched accusation of intent to physically destroy Lenin, Stalin and Sverdlov.

Arrested right at the plenum, Bukharin rejected these absurd accusations with anger and indignation. And it was not so easy to break him. Feeling hopelessness, Bukharin began to write letters to Stalin, in which he sought to dissuade him from the fact that he was an enemy of the party line and Stalin personally. He does not skimp on immeasurable political curtsies about Stalin and his policies, but everything was in vain.

In March 1938, an open trial took place. Three former members of the Politburo - Bukharin, Rykov and Krestinsky, as well as Yagoda and other high-ranking party leaders - were in the dock at once. In addition to this process, closed trials were held, at which, in a simplified manner, sentences were passed to those who were at risk of being brought to an open trial. Stalin took an active personal part in the preparation of the trial and determined the main directions of the indictment. He also patronized Bukharin's interrogations at confrontations.

At the trial, Bukharin admitted his guilt in general. But he often skillfully refuted absurd accusations. He categorically denied his involvement in espionage, the murder of Kirov and other leaders of the Soviet state.

The public reaction to the process was pre-programmed. Mass rallies took place, angry articles were published with the only demand - to punish the criminals severely, to shoot them like mad dogs. The court sentenced 18 defendants to be shot, less important persons to various prison terms.

Bukharin wrote his last letter to Stalin:

“If a death sentence awaits me, then I ask you in advance to replace the execution with the fact that I myself will drink poison in the cell ...

Let me spend the last seconds the way I want.

Take pity!

Knowing me well, you will understand ... ”.

But Stalin did not heed the pleas of his former comrade-in-arms.

Completion of the Great Purge


With the last public trial, Stalin, as it were, summed up the results of the struggle with his political opponents.

The victory was total.

It ended with the physical destruction of opponents. In addition to open and closed trials of 1937-1938, convictions were practiced in a “special order”. That is, the decision to shoot was taken by Stalin and his closest associates and was formalized by a "commission" - Stalin, the head of the NKVD and the Prosecutor General.

Also, by the decision of the Politburo on July 31, 1937, lists (limits) of persons subject to repression from several hundred to 5 people were approved for the republics, territories and regions. There were two categories. The most hostile anti-Soviet elements were subject to arrest and, by decision of the "troikas", to execution. And the second category - less active hostile elements were subject to arrest and imprisonment in camps.

As a result of all these actions, 1937 936 people were repressed in 750 and 1938 638 thousand in 509.

On the whole, an atmosphere of general suspicion and denunciation has developed in the country and in the party. The "Great Purge" was intended not only to eliminate real and potential enemies of the people, but also to instill fear and awe in all those who, under favorable circumstances, could rebel against Stalin and his political course.

Stalin, in all likelihood, began to understand that such a massive scale of repression could undermine his own power. He began to prepare the ground for their limitation not from considerations of humanism, but from real political calculations, since the emerging clearly anomalous situation, spy mania and sabotage mania threatened to cross all borders, lead to the elimination of party and state cadres and to the loss of state stability.

To do this, it was necessary to remove Yezhov, who strove to increase the scale of repression and did not intend to stop. The leader decided to place all responsibility for the massive repression on Yezhov. He did his job and had to leave.

Stalin began a gradual process of removing the people's commissar from power. In April 1938, he was also appointed People's Commissar of Water Transport. And by the decision of the Politburo in August 1938, Beria was appointed first deputy to Yezhov.

There is a version that it was Beria who began to reduce the repression.

This is far from the case.

He was just the executor of the will of the leader, who took a course to introduce this process into a reasonable channel. Beria was faced with the task of limiting the scale of repression and excluding any possibility of the appearance of opposition to Stalin.

Yezhov was “recommended” to write a letter of his resignation, which he did in September 1938, and in November he was dismissed from the post of People's Commissar.

Even before the formal removal of Yezhov, on Stalin's instructions, Beria launched a purge of the NKVD ranks from the people of the "iron people's commissar". In the period from September to December 1938, an almost complete replacement of the NKVD leadership was carried out, up to the heads of departments.

Yezhov was arrested in April 1939. And after a rather long investigation, he and his closest associates were shot. Nothing was reported about his execution. But his short reign left the deepest mark on the consciousness of Soviet society, as

"Iron grip".

All these measures were preparatory steps for the adoption in November 1938 of the resolution of the Central Committee and the Council of People's Commissars, which liquidated judicial troikas at all levels.

All cases now had to be considered only by the courts or a Special Meeting under the NKVD. With this resolution, Stalin clearly marked the fundamentally new contours of his policy in this area. From now on, there will be no more mass purges. But repressions, as a measure of preventing opposition to the policy of the leader, remain.

An unbiased assessment of the "Great Purge" suggests that the repressions were carried out by Stalin as an integral part of the political course aimed at building a powerful state, as he understood it, and eliminating any actions, both against the course being pursued and against the leader himself.

His opponents were far from being angels. And it is not known how many misfortunes the implementation of their proposed course would bring.

But nothing can justify the tragedies of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who fell into the molokh of repression.
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 10 February 2021 05: 35
    -5
    Could the USSR be able to withstand in a future war with Germany without Stalin's violent rapid industrialization of the country ... The answer is obvious. The destinies of millions of people were thrown into the sacrificial cauldron ... It's sad ... Probably there was no other way and choice to speed up the industrialization process.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 10 February 2021 06: 20
      +6
      Schaub there were not "sang-gundels" "the enemies of Soviet power ... as the tatra would say, the support of the MASS, PEOPLE WAS !!! otherwise nothing would work ... but they did it, they COULD !!!
      The author is simply an enemy of our GREAT past.
      By the way, the past of ANY GREAT COUNTRY, because none of them can become such, without having passed the period, which is not very fond of remembering now !!!
      AUTHOR, write about AMERICA, cry for the INDIANS, NEGROS and about many others !!!
      1. Pessimist22
        Pessimist22 10 February 2021 06: 46
        -10%
        “Stalin was never a real, genuine leader, but it was all the easier for him in the course of events to turn into a real dictator.

        He came to his present undivided domination by cunning combinations, relying on a handful of people and apparatus loyal to him, and by fooling the masses ...

        People who do not know how to think in Marxism think that the elimination of Stalin will at the same time be the overthrow of Soviet power.

        Stalin cultivates and spreads this view in every possible way.

        But he is absolutely wrong. "

        Ryutin, like many others, was shot for the truth, there were terrible times ...
        1. Civil
          Civil 10 February 2021 07: 02
          +27
          1. By the way, it is the hatred of Stalin that unites the navalnyashyak with their opponents, swindlers and bourgeoisie. laughing
          2. Had Comrade Stalin been alive, they would have been digging a tunnel into Sakhalin from one side, and the bourgeois gentlemen would meet them halfway for food.
          3. Contributed article for the elections.
          1. Doctor
            Doctor 10 February 2021 07: 35
            -10%
            1. By the way, it is the hatred of Stalin that unites the navalnyashyak with their opponents, swindlers and bourgeoisie. laughing
            2. Had Comrade Stalin been alive, they would have been digging a tunnel into Sakhalin from one side, and the bourgeois gentlemen would meet them halfway for food.
            3. Contributed article for the elections.

            Everything was confused in the Oblonskys' house! They row everyone, like under Comrade Stalin. laughing

            1. sniperino
              sniperino 10 February 2021 08: 53
              +4
              Quote: Arzt
              They row everyone, like under Comrade Stalin.
              Everything is simple here: people just followed Bondarenko, who simply at the request of one of the participants decided to just go to the police station. He did not direct any action, it is different. Same?
              1. Doctor
                Doctor 10 February 2021 09: 14
                -7
                Everything is simple here: people just followed Bondarenko, who simply at the request of one of the participants decided to just go to the police station. He did not direct any action, it is different. Same?

                Now, perhaps, it will turn out to smear.
                But try to explain it to some investigator Ryumin.
                Do you feel the taste of the Stalin era? wink
            2. Nazar
              Nazar 11 February 2021 08: 22
              +7
              Arzt - That's all right, Zyuganov said, only about "letting the whole country out" - he is lying, of course, the country may have come out, only Gennady Andreevich himself would have chickened out again and backed up, just as he did in 1996. Who will go after him after this?
              So saying the right things is one thing, but being a real leader is co-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-all. hi
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 10 February 2021 08: 37
            +2
            Exactly!
            The political struggle never ends, just before the elections there is another period of EXPOSURE!
            After all, nothing new was invented .... the intensity, speed and scope of the process increased, but the methods are still the same.
          3. RUSS
            RUSS 10 February 2021 12: 57
            -9
            Quote: Civil
            If Comrade Stalin were alive, they would now dig a tunnel into Sakhalin from one side, and the bourgeois gentlemen would meet them halfway for food.

            Everyone would dig.
            Every year, tens of thousands of prisoners were brought to the White Sea Canal - 126 thousand people constantly worked there, of which 115 thousand were prisoners. More than half of them were convicted on political charges; worked on the canal and "special settlers" - dispossessed peasants, who were sometimes exiled by whole villages, and civilian workers (they, however, were only about 5% of the total number of builders).
            According to official figures, 12 people died during the construction of the White Sea Canal.
            1. Civil
              Civil 10 February 2021 13: 22
              -4
              More than half of them were convicted on political charges; worked on the canal and "special settlers" - dispossessed peasants, who were sometimes exiled by whole villages, and civilian workers (they, however, were only about 5% of the total number of builders).

              Namely - the bulk of the political clauses, the second half dispossessed bourgeois, swindlers and their propaganda six (since the thieves have nothing to do with politics). Everything is so comrade. Stalin would have done it. laughing
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 10 February 2021 13: 28
                0
                Quote: Civil
                More than half of them were convicted on political charges; worked on the canal and "special settlers" - dispossessed peasants, who were sometimes exiled by whole villages, and civilian workers (they, however, were only about 5% of the total number of builders).

                Namely - the bulk of the political clauses, the second half dispossessed bourgeois, swindlers and their propaganda six (since the thieves have nothing to do with politics). Everything is so comrade. Stalin would have done it. laughing

                Belomor was dug by journalists and academics, etc., you would also dig for your comments, so let's go - dig the Sakhalin tunnel.
            2. Sertorius
              Sertorius 11 February 2021 07: 06
              +3
              dispossessed peasants, who were sometimes exiled by whole villages

              What is it like? "Village of Fists"? lol
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 11 February 2021 12: 42
                0
                Quote: Sertorius
                dispossessed peasants, who were sometimes exiled by whole villages

                What is it like? "Village of Fists"? lol

                This is when the whole fist family was exiled
          4. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 33
            +2
            Quote: Civil
            Comrade Stalin be alive,

            where would you be, don't you think? wink
          5. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 14: 35
            +3
            And why do you divide the supporters of the bulk and the bourgeoisie? It is the same.
        2. Hlavaty
          Hlavaty 10 February 2021 14: 41
          +7
          Quote: Pessimist22
          think that the elimination of Stalin will at the same time be the overthrow of Soviet power.

          And in fact it happened - Stalin died and the USSR began to degrade, and the Soviet power performed by Khrushchev and Brezhnev turned into a complete fiction.
        3. Illanatol
          Illanatol April 16 2021 08: 29
          0
          People who do not know how to think in Marxism think that the elimination of Stalin will at the same time be the overthrow of Soviet power.


          This was the starting point for the beginning of the overthrow of Soviet power.
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 10 February 2021 06: 59
        +3
        hi I welcome you, Victor! Yes, there was support from the masses. In 2019, I saw a book by an American author about the support of the population for Stalin's course. I was thinking about buying, it was somehow expensive, I got distracted, I forgot later .... In general, it is interesting that there were many reports that American authors and other Western authors came to study our post-revolutionary archives and periodicals. ..... We are glad that we got access to them now, that this is an invaluable experience ..... By no means all Westerners blame Russia and lie.
        I will not say that our authors would try a lot to study and write positively about that time.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 10 February 2021 08: 46
          -3
          Hi Dmitry soldier
          It is useful, very much to read their press, of that very period, and not later alterations / correspondence !!!
          So, in those years, THEIR JOURNALISTS, admitted that there was a political struggle, the purge of the party and leadership apparatus was carried out, BUT, everything was within the framework of the LEGISLATION, of that time period! That is, everything is according to the LAW !!!
          It was then, after Khrushchev's exercises, after his libelous speech, they had reasons to stop everything completely!
          As always, an inner villain, striving for power by any means, is a gift for external enemies!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 10 February 2021 11: 32
            -2
            [i] [........ a gift for external enemies ... / i]
            Yes, and what else. After reading the articles on VO, it became clear what damage the traitor inflicted on both the entire communist world movement and our country, as well as the socialist camp. All the actions against the USSR in these countries were precisely because of this.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 10 February 2021 12: 39
              0
              You cannot throw out "words" from the HISTORY ... one must remember and not trample on the old rake, do not look for new ones! Things are going so hard anyway, we don't have time to fight off enemies ... so at least "our own", inside, do not produce and do not give them a go, if they appear.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 10 February 2021 14: 05
                -1
                Quote: rocket757
                You cannot throw out "words" from the HISTORY ... one must remember and not trample on the old rake, do not look for new ones! Things are going so hard anyway, we don't have time to fight off enemies ... so at least "our own", inside, do not produce and do not give them a go, if they appear.

                now, who are older, they said that never was so much known about the affairs of the bald man as now
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 20
                  -1
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  now, who are older, they said that never was so much known about the affairs of the bald man as now

                  Dmitry, his report at the congress could be read ONLY in foreign publications, and we have very limited where !!!
                  Our party bureaucracy did not like to wash dirty linen in public on public display ... for which they paid, in the end, with the complete degradation of the elite !!!
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 10 February 2021 23: 01
                    +1
                    [/ Quote]
                    Quote: rocket757
                    [quote = Reptiloid] now, who are older, they said that never was so much known about the affairs of the bald man as now

                    Dmitry, his report at the congress could be read ONLY in foreign publications, and we have very limited where !!!
                    Our party bureaucracy did not like to wash dirty linen in public on public display ... for which they paid, in the end, with the complete degradation of the elite !!!

                    I think that only those who were allowed by name or position could read it in the libraries of the higher party organizations.
        2. Doctor
          Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 21
          -2
          Yes, there was support from the masses.

          This is not an indicator.
          Many people had the support of the masses, they were already crying with emotion, there are a lot of chronicles on YouTube. wink
      3. DrEng527
        DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 30
        +3
        Quote: rocket757
        MASS, THE PEOPLE WERE!

        when one part of the backgammon destroyed another? hi
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 10 February 2021 18: 40
          0
          and WHERE during the internal, civil confrontation, did it happen differently?
          Now, for example, the same thing .... in different countries.
          This, of course, is not an excuse, but a recognition of the realities of life, our species / society / states.
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 37
            +3
            Quote: rocket757
            and WHERE during the internal, civil confrontation, did it happen differently?

            and why was it arranged? RI developed well in all spheres - industry, education, science! There were serious shifts in political rights - freedom of speech, elections to the Duma! All this was lost during the Soviet Union for 70 years ... request
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 28 February 2021 02: 19
              0
              Quote: DrEng527
              RI developed well in all spheres - industry, education, science!

              sorry you weren't there with this "good development". I would have lost a 14-hour working day without days off and holidays, otherwise I would have started singing wink or under the boots of a "strong business executive" kulak for food would have smacked laughing
              Quote: DrEng527
              There were serious shifts in political rights - freedom of speech, elections to the Duma!

              Duma elections ??? belay look at the qualifications for this election! laughing

              PS
              Are you from Svanidze's Stalin rehabilitation team? otherwise I cannot explain the primitiveness of your lies request
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 28 February 2021 17: 20
                0
                Quote: SanichSan
                sorry you weren't there at the same time

                we are on you or are you just ill-mannered? request
                my grandfathers lived there, one who survived told a lot of interesting things.
                Quote: SanichSan
                would go to waste a 14-hour working day without days off and holidays,

                you are not only ill-bred, but illiterate! RI had labor legislation, one of the best in the world! hi do not study history from soviet textbooks - there are lies ...
                Quote: SanichSan
                look at the qualifications for this election!

                in the USSR there were no elections at all, and until 1936 the former did not have political rights at all ... request
                Quote: SanichSan
                otherwise I cannot explain the primitiveness of your lies

                and this is trite - for you everything is a lie that you do not know ...
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 28 February 2021 18: 03
                  0
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  we are on you or are you just ill-mannered?

                  about! I see you have caught my deep contempt for the adherents of "Russia, which we have lost" hi
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  my grandfathers lived there, one who survived told a lot of interesting things.

                  mine, too, and also told a lot of interesting things. in particular, on their memories and base my opinion.
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  RI had labor legislation, one of the best in the world! do not study history from soviet textbooks - there are lies ...

                  and for 1897 this is a Soviet source where everyone lies? like no ...
                  get to know wink
                  https://scisne.net/a-198
                  about "the best labor legislation" was especially touched by the legislation of 1885 regulating the exploitation of child labor. limit the working day of children 12-15 years old to 8 hours! how humane! though the law was not particularly enforced ..
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  there were no elections at all in the USSR

                  sorry what? belay hmm ... I'd rather read Soviet textbooks because they contain less delirium than in your head. yes
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  and until 1936 the former did not have political rights at all ...

                  do you mean that 2% of the population was limited in rights for their past "merits"? in civilized countries, these are usually disposed of, or have you forgotten? really, what wild Bolsheviks! instead of civilized sending political enemies to the guillotine or at least to rot in hard labor, they took and restricted their rights ... vandals! laughing
                  Let me remind you that these, who were limited in their rights, at one time were not shy about the means. remember the famous "do not give blank volleys! do not spare cartridges!"
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  and this is trite - for you everything is a lie that you do not know ...

                  I won't even insist hi while your lies are so primitive and so easily exposed, you are making an invaluable contribution to the rehabilitation of the Soviet system in general and Comrade Stalin in particular.
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 1 March 2021 12: 06
                    0
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    about! I see you have caught my deep contempt for the adherents of "Russia, which we have lost

                    and I do not care deeply about your feelings! bully
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    mine too, and

                    it looks like you are from a kind a la grandfather Shchukar ... wink
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    1885 regulating the exploitation of child labor. limit the working day of children 12-15 years old to 8 hours! how humane!

                    you better remember how teenagers worked in the USSR ...
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    I'd rather read Soviet textbooks because they contain less delirium than in your head.

                    1) living in the past means having psychological problems ...
                    2) I lived and "elected" in the USSR the candidates of the "indestructible bloc of communists and non-party people" bully - I don't need textbooks, after the first more or less free elections, the CPSU lost power ... hi
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    do you mean that 2% of the population was limited in rights for their past "merits"?

                    this is your essence - it is not people that are important to you, but% ... but it is difficult for you! Just try to think, if there is something - why was the Soviet government so afraid of these "2%" that it did not give them rights? After all, 98% is any super victory ... bully

                    Quote: SanichSan
                    instead of civilized sending political enemies to the guillotine or at least to rot in hard labor, they took and restricted their rights ... vandals

                    you deigned to forget how many people the Bolsheviks shot in the Red Terror? How many were imprisoned in the GULAG?
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    remember the famous "do not give blank volleys! do not spare cartridges!"

                    Do you remember that in the Republic of Ingushetia for the entire 19th and early 20th centuries, fewer political enemies were executed than the Bolsheviks in 1918? And this is taking into account the revolution of 1905 ... In addition, the Bolsheviks in their "history", a la Short Course, lied a lot about the victims of tsarism ...

                    Quote: SanichSan
                    you are making an invaluable contribution to the rehabilitation of the Soviet system in general and Comrade Stalin in particular.

                    how stupid you are, it's not even funny ... bully Let me remind you that it was the Bolshevik apologists who were the first to go under the knife after the GV ...
                    1. Sanichsan
                      Sanichsan 1 March 2021 13: 01
                      0
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      and I do not care deeply about your feelings!

                      me on yours too bully
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      you better remember how teenagers worked in the USSR ...

                      And How? the only example is the Great Patriotic War, when children replaced workers in factories who had gone to the front. the rest of the time they studied in schools and institutes, in the present and not in 3 classes of the parish. in RI, the exploitation of child labor was a common norm. and if you look into the village, then from the age of 7 they started working there and there were no restrictions.
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      1) living in the past means having psychological problems ...

                      is it about pink snot about the Russian Empire? very self-critical good
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      after the first more or less free elections, the CPSU lost power ...

                      Are you from Ukraine? belay otherwise I cannot explain such a low level of education request any schoolchild knows that at first a putsch was organized and the defeat of this very CPSU. especially funny about "less free" wassat these are the ones on which the drunk won? Oh well laughing
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      this is your essence - it is not people that are important to you, but% ... but it is difficult for you! Just try to think, if there is something - why was the Soviet government so afraid of these "2%" that it did not give them rights? After all, 98% is any super victory ...

                      in general, this is the usual punitive measure. of course, it was possible to follow the demands of the workers and shoot all the former, but the country's leadership was more far-sighted than the peasants and limited itself to infringement of rights request bloody red! bully
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      you deigned to forget how many people the Bolsheviks shot in the Red Terror?

                      OU! you deigned to forget that it is much less than those killed in the White Terror?
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      How many were imprisoned in the GULAG?

                      the figures range from 14 to 17 million criminals during the entire period of Stalin's rule. if you have difficulties with understanding, then as a percentage of the population of the country, it is less than in the United States at the same time and less than now they are planted with a noticeably smaller population of the country. oh yes, the bloody regime for some reason did not put the prisoners in shackles as was customary in the Republic of Ingushetia and as they still do in the "stronghold of democracy."
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      Do you remember that in the Republic of Ingushetia for the entire 19th and early 20th centuries, fewer political enemies were executed than the Bolsheviks in 1918? And this is taking into account the revolution of 1905 ... In addition, the Bolsheviks in their "history", a la Short Course, lied a lot about the victims of tsarism ...
                      beauty! good lied with three boxes and immediately complains that the Bolsheviks deceived someone laughing do you think there was no White Terror? Stolypin's reform could humanity be different? and of course we will not count those who were flogged to death ... but what? These are not "political" but some kind of farm laborers, and who will count them at all ...
                      By the way, who is political in your opinion? those who went to 58? so in 58 there are points about banditry. your bandits are political victims? belay
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      how stupid you are, it's not even funny ... let me remind you that it was the Bolshevik apologists who were the first to go under the knife after the GW ...

                      ha ha ha laughing are you Trotskyists and Mensheviks "apologists for the Bolsheviks"? and you here still something about stupidity undertook to argue? laughing good
                      1. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 1 March 2021 13: 40
                        0
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        the only example is the Great Patriotic War, when children replaced workers in factories who had gone to the front. the rest of the time they studied in schools and institutes, in the present and not in 3 classes of the parish. in RI, the exploitation of child labor was a common norm. and if you look into the village, then from the age of 7 they started working and there were no restrictions.

                        1) Nonsense of an illiterate amateur of the USSR! bully I recommend that you find out what Labor Reserves, FZU are and why in 1940 they introduced tuition fees in senior classes, technical schools and universities in the USSR
                        2) The TsPSh had 2 grades, but the level of education was equal to 4 grades in the USSR - you simply don’t know ... hi
                        3) At what age were spikelets harvested on collective farms?
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        in general, this is a common punitive measure

                        those. Can't answer - why was the SV afraid of 2%? wink
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        of course it was possible to follow the demands of the workers and shoot all the former

                        and who would feed you, the descendants of the pike's grandfathers? bully
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        is it about pink snot about the Russian Empire?

                        if not a secret - where did you see them? unlike you, I am well educated and I know the advantages and disadvantages of both the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR ...
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        But I can’t explain such a low level of education. Any schoolchild knows that at first the coup was organized and the defeat of this very CPSU. about "more mene free" especially funny are those on which the drunk won? Oh well

                        Eka you are illiterate, then! The first elections in the RSFSR were in 1989, the EBN was elected in 1990, and the State Emergency Committee was in 1991 ...
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        Do you deign to forget that this is significantly less than those killed in the White Terror?

                        The Red Terror is the state policy of the RSFSR, which is enshrined in a document! The White Terror is the usual excesses during the Civil War! So you are banally illiterate, the Reds killed significantly more! The estimates give an order of magnitude difference.
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        the figures range from 14 to 17 million criminals during the entire period of Stalin's rule.

                        So, for your self-education, I recommend that you find out why there were so fewer criminals in the Republic of Ingushetia than in the USSR? wink
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        less than now planted with a noticeably smaller population of countries

                        Do you know how much is sitting in the Russian Federation? hi as for the United States, then I'm purple ...
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        Stolypin's reform could humanity be different?

                        of course - the peasants-migrants were given land, paid for travel, were given lifting ...
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        and of course we will not count those who were flogged to death ... but what? These are not "political" but some kind of farm laborers, and who will count them at all ...

                        punished for real deeds - for robbery, arson, murder!
                        I would like to note that “During the decade from 1901 to 1911, terrorism reached a different level: a total of 16800 people (including the wounded). "Besides" Expropriations became a mass phenomenon after the start of the revolution. So, in October 1906 alone, 362 cases of expropriation were recorded in the country. In the course of expropriations, according to the Ministry of Finance, from the beginning of 1905 to the middle of 1906, banks lost more than 1 million rubles [25]. The revolutionaries did not disdain to cooperate with criminals in operations related to the sale of weapons and smuggling. "
                        at the same time, military courts in 1906 - "For eight months of their existence, military courts issued 1 death sentences, but only 102 people were actually executed."
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        those who went to 58? so in 58 there are points about banditry. your bandits are political victims?

                        do you have a self-prop bully this is the Bolsheviks Mishka Yaponchik is not a bandit, but the commander of the Red Army regiment, Kotovsky is not a criminal, but a hero-brigade, and dad Makhno is already a divisional commander of the Red Army! And in the USSR, all who fought with the SV were bandits ...
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        are you Trotskyists and Mensheviks "apologists for the Bolsheviks"? and you here still something about stupidity undertook to argue?

                        you are illiterate and do not know that Trotsky was among the leaders of the coup in October 1917, then the creator of the Red Army! And he was a real Bolshevik, until the temporary detention facility removed him from power ...
                      2. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 1 March 2021 14: 22
                        0
                        hmm .... it means the level of education in 2 classes of the Central School of Arts, after which the peasant knew how to sign, not the fact that he could read, which was noted when recruiting these peasants to the First World War in the draft commissions, this is equal to 4 classes in the USSR in which after leaving school the same did the village workers know foreign languages ​​and had experience working with complex agricultural machinery? awesome! the level of insanity is beyond! good
                        about the "coup leader" Trotsky, who with his Menshevik colleagues, Zinoviev and Kamenev, before the revolution of 1917 ran to the Menshevik newspaper to publish an article about how the Bolsheviks were arranging a coup, but they did not agree with the type and published it after handing over the plans of the party, especially liked it! good
                      3. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 1 March 2021 14: 30
                        0
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        awesome! the level of insanity is beyond!

                        just for you, the victims of the exam hi
                        Quote: SanichSan
                        about the "coup leader" Trotsky,

                        you are illiterate - learn the facts:
                        "October 12, 1917 Trotsky, as chairman of the Petrosovet, formed The Petrograd Military Revolutionary Committee, which consisted mainly of the Bolsheviks, as well as the Left SRs. The Military Revolutionary Committee became the main body for the preparation of an armed uprising "
                        “A year later, Stalin wrote about this period:
                        “All the work on the practical organization of the uprising took place under the direct supervision of the chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, Comrade Trotsky. It can be said with confidence that the party owes first and foremost to Comrade Trotsky. Comrades Antonov [-Ovseenko] and Podvoisky were the main assistants of Comrade Trotsky ”[160].
                        A few more years later, with the beginning of a fierce struggle for power within the CPSU (b), Stalin was already dramatically changing his tone:
                        ... it cannot be denied that Trotsky fought well during the October period. Yes, that's right, Trotsky fought really well in October. But during the October Revolution it was not only Trotsky who fought well; even such people as the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries, who then stood side by side with the Bolsheviks, fought well. In general, I must say that in a period of a victorious uprising, when the enemy is isolated and the uprising is growing, it is not difficult to fight well. At such times, even the backward ones become heroes [161]. "
                        "When General P. N. Krasnov's troops attacked Petrograd in October (November) 1917, Trotsky organized the defense of the city. On October 29, he personally checks the preparation of artillery pieces and an armored train at the Putilov plant, on October 30 he personally arrived at the Pulkovo Heights, where a decisive clash took place. between the revolutionary forces and the Cossacks of General Krasnov.

                        As an eyewitness to the events, John Reed, describes, Trotsky went to the Pulkovo Heights directly from the meeting of the Petrosovet on October 29 (November 11):
                        The Petrograd Soviet was working at full speed, the hall was overflowing with armed people. Trotsky reported: “The Cossacks are retreating from Krasnoe Selo (loud enthusiastic applause). But the battle is just beginning. Fierce battles are going on in Pulkovo. ... The cruisers "Oleg", "Aurora" and "Respublika" anchored on the Neva and directed their guns to the approaches to the city ... "
                        "Why aren't you where the Red Guards fight?" Shouted a harsh voice.
                        "I'm leaving now!" Trotsky replied, leaving the rostrum. His face was somewhat paler than usual. Surrounded by devoted friends, he left the room down the side aisle and hurried to the car. "
                      4. Sanichsan
                        Sanichsan 1 March 2021 14: 47
                        0
                        OU! rehabilitating Trotsky by linking to the liberal wiki! awesome!
                        Quote: DrEng527
                        “A year later, Stalin wrote about this period:
                        “All the work on the practical organization of the uprising took place under the direct supervision of the chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, Comrade Trotsky. It can be said with confidence that the party owes first and foremost to Comrade Trotsky. Comrades Antonov [-Ovseenko] and Podvoisky were the main assistants of Comrade Trotsky ”[160].

                        cool! but what is it really?
                        "
                        “From beginning to end, the inspiration for the coup was the Party Central Committee, headed by Comrade Lenin. Vladimir Ilyich was then living in Petrograd, on the Vyborg side, in a safe house. On October 24, in the evening, he was summoned to Smolny to lead the movement.
                        An outstanding role in the October uprising was played by the Baltic sailors and Red Guards from the Vyborg side. With the extraordinary courage of these people, the role of the Petrograd garrison was reduced mainly to moral and partly military support of the leading soldiers. "
                        "
                  2. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 1 March 2021 14: 37
                    0
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    this is the Bolsheviks Mishka Yaponchik is not a bandit, but the commander of the Red Army regiment

                    this is the one that the Bolsheviks shot in 1919 when resisting? What are you! of course it's not a bandit! this is a victim of a bloody regime! wassat
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    Kotovsky is not a criminal, but a hero-brigade

                    who participated in the raids with the esser, and then join the Bolsheviks and became a brigade commander? Well, well done. broke with a seizure past.
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    and dad Makhno is already the division commander of the Red Army!

                    aha laughing and when for the whites fought and robbed not the division commander? not? and this fuger finished naturally wink
                  3. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 1 March 2021 14: 42
                    0
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    this is the one that the Bolsheviks shot in 1919 when resisting?

                    He commanded a regiment of the Red Army? hi
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    who participated in the raids with the esser,

                    nope, I was an ordinary bandit ...
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    and when for the whites fought and robbed not the division commander?

                    you amuse you with your illiteracy - he never fought for the whites - they would have hanged him! bully
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    and this fuger finished naturally

                    many heroes of the Civil War ended in the same way for the Reds, some earlier, some later ... request
                    spiders in the jar ...
                  4. Sanichsan
                    Sanichsan 1 March 2021 14: 54
                    0
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    many heroes of the Civil War ended in the same way for the Reds, some earlier, some later ...
                    spiders in the jar ...

                    about the spiders in the bank, the fate of Kolchak is more suitable hi
                  5. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 2 March 2021 12: 50
                    0
                    Quote: SanichSan
                    about the spiders in the bank, the fate of Kolchak is more suitable

                    Kolchak is a combat admiral, a polar explorer who died for his Motherland .... how can you compare him with these "internationalists" who took money from the Germans or Americans to break up Russia? hi
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 14: 36
    -1
    Like it's not right now? And this has never happened in history? Hand face.
  • Simargl
    Simargl 12 February 2021 15: 24
    0
    Quote: rocket757
    AUTHOR, write about AMERICA, cry for the INDIANS, NEGROS and about many others !!!
    Why for Indians and Negroes? Yes, just for the hardworking Americans.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 12 February 2021 16: 04
      0
      What for? They have what they ordered ...
  • Finches
    Finches 10 February 2021 06: 38
    +6
    There was a cult, but there was also a personality!
    1. Asad
      Asad 10 February 2021 06: 56
      +8
      I wonder how you would ,, admire ,, if you were ten years in the Kolyma? Or did they just shoot someone close?
      1. Finches
        Finches 10 February 2021 07: 12
        -7
        Victory in the Great Patriotic War, spacewalk, the creation of nuclear weapons and much more showed that Joseph Vissarionovich was right in the strategic perspective! The repressions were justified when viewed through the prism of the situation at the time. And on a national scale, the percentage of repressed is not so significant, taking into account the fact that there really were sabotage, deliberate sabotage, outright espionage and betrayal! But it was about the survival of the state and the nation! Naturally, there were innocent victims, but this was not Stalin's personal fault, it was mainly the zeal of local officials. To be objective, repression cannot be considered separately, taking it out of the context of history. Because if you go down to the form and your phrase, then it turns out that Hitler is better in the Kremlin as a winner, but I'm not in Kolyma!
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 10 February 2021 07: 41
          -2
          Victory in the Great Patriotic War, spacewalk, the creation of nuclear weapons and much more showed that Joseph Vissarionovich was right in the strategic perspective! The repressions were justified when viewed through the prism of the situation at the time. And on a national scale, the percentage of repressed is not so significant, taking into account the fact that there really were sabotage, deliberate sabotage, outright espionage and betrayal! But it was about the survival of the state and the nation! Naturally, there were innocent victims, but this was not Stalin's personal fault, it was mainly the zeal of local officials. To be objective, repression cannot be considered separately, taking it out of the context of history. Because if you go down to the form and your phrase, then it turns out that Hitler is better in the Kremlin as a winner, but I'm not in Kolyma!

          The political struggle has been and will be. It's about its forms.

          Lenin was also tough, he called to kill the bourgeoisie and landowners.
          However, he did not kill his political opponents.

          Stalin crossed this Rubicon and became a political outrage.
          This is the trick. wink
          1. Finches
            Finches 10 February 2021 07: 48
            -6
            Then they would kill him ...
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 10 February 2021 09: 29
              +2
              Then they would kill him ...

              This is what we are talking about.
              A group of comrades, living by concepts, extended the system throughout the country.
              1. Finches
                Finches 10 February 2021 09: 34
                +5
                All countries live by concepts! Only everyone has different concepts.
                1. Doctor
                  Doctor 10 February 2021 10: 53
                  -2
                  All countries live by concepts! Only everyone has different concepts.

                  +
                  This should be knocked out in granite.

                  There are countries where political opponents fight with tongues in elections.

                  And there are countries where political opponents are fighting with ice axes in silence.

                  The difference of concepts, however ... laughing
                  1. paul3390
                    paul3390 10 February 2021 11: 32
                    +6
                    And there are countries where political opponents are fighting with ice axes in silence.

                    Yes? Not - the same Kennedy, of course, was not killed with an ice pick, but - this is clearly not a battle with tongues .. And then in the West, politicians were killed a little? However, what I'm talking about is completely different. There is democracy, we have fierce totalitarianism ..
                    1. Doctor
                      Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 35
                      -2
                      Yes? Not - the same Kennedy, of course, was not killed with an ice pick, but - this is clearly not a battle with tongues .. And then in the West, politicians were killed a little? However, what I'm talking about is completely different. There is democracy, we have fierce totalitarianism ..

                      Possibly (although unlikely). But even if so, it is NOT a SYSTEM.
                    2. paul3390
                      paul3390 10 February 2021 11: 40
                      +3
                      Of course not a system. They killed only in extreme cases. Although - and they were above the roof. Think of all the slammed American politicians, for example. There are a lot of them. Besides the Kennedy bros. And how the bourgeois system works in relation to the undesirable - we clearly see on the example of Donnie Trump .. But they can afford it, because the rich, and we are a poor country, it is cheaper for us using the Stalinist method ..
                    3. Doctor
                      Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 51
                      +1
                      Of course not a system. They killed only in extreme cases. Although - and they were above the roof. Think of all the slammed American politicians, for example. There are a lot of them. Besides the Kennedy bros. And how the bourgeois system works in relation to the undesirable - we clearly see on the example of Donnie Trump .. But they can afford it, because the rich, and we are a poor country, it is cheaper for us using the Stalinist method ..

                      Whom did they slam? And most importantly - who slammed?

                      Did the politician fail to honor the mafia? laughing

                      Or is it an FBI strategy that flunked Kennedy and then sent 40 thousand dispossessed farmers to Alaska, along with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US Armed Forces? laughing
                    4. paul3390
                      paul3390 10 February 2021 11: 59
                      +3
                      Come on! You just google it for fun. In fact, in the shining hail on the hill, politicians are dying in batches ... Starting with the classic Long, Kennedy and King, ending with the strange deaths of the opponents of old Hillary ..
                    5. Doctor
                      Doctor 10 February 2021 12: 07
                      -2
                      Come on! You just google it for fun. In fact, in the shining hail on the hill, politicians are dying in batches ... Starting with the classic Long, Kennedy and King, ending with the strange deaths of the opponents of old Hillary ..

                      We are talking about different things.
                      On the one hand, far-fetched conspiracy theories, on the other, state policy from the rostrum.

                    6. paul3390
                      paul3390 10 February 2021 12: 11
                      +3
                      Sorry - you postulated that type There are countries where political opponents fight with tongues in elections. I am giving you examples that this is not quite true, to put it mildly. In response, you declare the classic: This is different. You do not understand. Are you a liberal, my friend ?? belay
                    7. Doctor
                      Doctor 10 February 2021 12: 24
                      +2
                      Sorry - you postulated that there are types of countries where political opponents fight with their tongues in elections. I am giving you examples that this is not quite true, to put it mildly. In response, you declare the classic: This is different. You do not understand. Are you a liberal, my friend ??

                      I say you are comparing incorrectly.

                      Kennedy was killed by Oswald, the murder was condemned by the public.
                      Long was shot by Dr. Weiss, he was killed on the spot by the police.
                      King was killed by Earl Ray, he died in prison for this.

                      Even if this is the machinations of the CIA, this is NOT STATE POLICY. Well, the scale is not comparable, of course.

                      And Ramon Mercader was given the GSS for Trotsky.
                      (Although here, in my opinion - deservedly laughing ).
              2. Barmal
                Barmal 10 February 2021 17: 38
                +2
                funny about the mafia. But these are your words about the connection between the American mafia and American politicians. laughing
          2. Barmal
            Barmal 10 February 2021 17: 36
            +2
            Yes, not a system, this is a rule. Shoot down presidents. Or spread rot with disobedience in the media.
  • IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 14: 39
    -2
    These concepts, as you call them, are as ancient as all of humanity. Stop lying.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 11 February 2021 16: 58
      -1
      These concepts, as you call them, are as ancient as all of humanity. Stop lying.

      Of course the ancients.
      Simplified: either the Roman Republic and every year you choose consuls or the Empire and then you are lucky with Caesar.

      If a powerful tyrant - remove only through the revolution.
      If this works out. laughing
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 17: 18
        0
        Do you understand. There is something that works, and there is something that does not work, depending on objective circumstances. And your attempts to elevate your ideas about morality to the absolute, they are simply ridiculous.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 11 February 2021 18: 03
          +1
          Do you understand. There is something that works, and there is something that does not work, depending on objective circumstances. And your attempts to elevate your ideas about morality to the absolute, they are simply ridiculous.

          Everything works there and there. In the states, they also put on an electric bullet - be healthy.
          But.
          After a full-fledged trial by jury, criminals, with an individual approach.
          And not on the order to fill the Norillag.

          And morality is always the same.
          I like living in a society where in the morning you can get knocked on by an alcoholic neighbor for not pouring a drink for him - live.
          But do not drag others there. repeat
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 23: 46
          0
          Quote: Arzt
          And morality is always the same.

          Nothing like this. Bourgeois morality is not at all the same as communist. Therefore, you are here making snot about the legality and unlawfulness of sentences with a bloody scoop, but at the same time you are in no way embarrassed by the workers of some plant thrown into the cold in the bright capitalist present. And so on in the same vein.
        3. Doctor
          Doctor 12 February 2021 00: 17
          -1
          Nothing like this. Bourgeois morality is not at all the same as communist. Therefore, you are here making snot about the legality and unlawfulness of sentences with a bloody scoop, but at the same time you are in no way embarrassed by the workers of some plant thrown into the cold in the bright capitalist present. And so on in the same vein.

          You are a naive guy.
          The capitalist will "throw" you out into the cold by firing you from Norilsk Nickel.
          And you will calmly go to Anapa, sell ice cream and bask in the gentle sea.

          And the Stalinist communist will pull you out of the sea, put you in a cattle carriage and take you to Norillag. Where you will swing a pick in the cold for a stew until you throw away your hooves.

          DECISION FOR YOU where and with whom you live, what you will do, eat, wear, read, what you can talk about and what not.
          It's just one big zone, with different modes. wink
        4. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 12 February 2021 01: 34
          -1
          Or you will die ill, because optimized capitalist medicine does not export. And you have no money for a private one.
          Quote: Arzt
          DECISION FOR YOU where and with whom you live, what you will do, eat, wear, read, what you can talk about and what not.
          It's just one big zone, with different modes

          So you are just an enemy of the people. By the way, you are really an enemy of the people. So note. Well what can you do, life is like that. You will go to Magadan. And I will go to the sea on a ticket from the factory for shock work. laughing
        5. mat-vey
          mat-vey 12 February 2021 04: 37
          0
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          So you are just an enemy of the people.

          Some believe that this is all fiction, but they do not forget to poke traitors in the Second World War ..
        6. Doctor
          Doctor 12 February 2021 07: 07
          +1
          Or you will die ill, because optimized capitalist medicine does not export. And you have no money for a private one.

          Do you mean there was medicine under Stalin? The word "veterinary" is more appropriate. Do not believe me, ask Frunze, and ask Himself too. wink
        7. Doctor
          Doctor 12 February 2021 07: 08
          +1
          So you are just an enemy of the people. By the way, you are really an enemy of the people. So note. Well what can you do, life is like that. You will go to Magadan. And I will go to the sea on a ticket from the factory for shock work. laughing

          The enemy of the people is the one who drove this people into slavery. And the one who praises the beater.
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 04: 35
        -1
        Quote: Arzt
        The capitalist will "throw" you out into the cold by firing you from Norilsk Nickel.
        And you will calmly go to Anapa

        Will a caring capitalist give money for the move?
      3. Doctor
        Doctor 12 February 2021 07: 29
        0
        Will a caring capitalist give money for the move?

        The dumbest and laziest dunduk in Norilsk will make money before Anapa, just throwing away the snow for a month.
        And this is better than going in the opposite direction in a shared carriage with a free ticket from the NKVD.
        Anyway better.
      4. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 25
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        The dumbest and laziest dunduk in Norilsk will make money before Anapa, just throwing away the snow for a month.

        Quote: mat-vey
        The capitalist will "throw" you out into the cold by firing you from Norilsk Nickel.
      5. Doctor
        Doctor 12 February 2021 10: 13
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        The dumbest and laziest dunduk in Norilsk will make money before Anapa, just throwing away the snow for a month.

        Quote: mat-vey
        The capitalist will "throw" you out into the cold by firing you from Norilsk Nickel.

        Let's get real.

        Now there is capitalism in Norilsk.
        They kicked out from Norilsk Nickel.

        I got a job as a loader for a month.



        I worked. I bought a ticket to Anapa.



        And voila.
        Something is wrong?
      6. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 10: 19
        -1
        Yes, bum ... even in Anapa ... And will they take the janitors?
      7. Doctor
        Doctor 12 February 2021 10: 31
        0
        Yes, bum ... even in Anapa ... And will they take the janitors?

        I personally will work for now.
        The main thing is that there is a CHOICE.

        And about the janitors - real vacancies, just from the Internet. Look for yourself, by the way, what might interest you. wink

        But keep in mind, a week ago it was like this: laughing

      8. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 10: 41
        -1
        Quote: Arzt
        And about the janitors - real vacancies, just from the Internet.

        Are you a joker ..
      9. Doctor
        Doctor 12 February 2021 11: 18
        +1
        Are you a joker ..

        I am not suggesting you work as a janitor.
        See top managers vacancies. drinks

        We take a certain abstract person, without education, without ambition, who was fired from his job.

        Will he be able to fly from there to Anapa?
        As you can see, it's easy.

        And under Comrade Stalin, everything is a little more complicated. wink
      10. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 12: 49
        0
        Quote: Arzt
        We take a certain abstract person, without education, without ambition, who was fired from his job.

        At my house for the post of janitor, the vacancy has been officially open for four years ...
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 12 February 2021 04: 36
    -1
    Quote: Arzt
    DECISION FOR YOU where and with whom you live, what you will do, eat, wear, read, what you can talk about and what not.

    And under capitalism, everything means wrong?
  • Doctor
    Doctor 12 February 2021 09: 26
    +1
    And under capitalism, everything means wrong?

    Under capitalism, you are free.
    If you want, study and become an academician,
    If you want - bake pies and open a diner
    If you want - sit on the long range.

    If you don’t like to work, you’ll be homeless on benefits.

    Well, or go to the army laughing
    (Also, by the way, optional)

  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 34
    -1
    Quote: Arzt
    Under capitalism, you are free.
    If you want, study and become an academician,
    If you want - bake pies and open a diner
    If you want - sit on the long range.

    I haven't laughed like that for a long time ...
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 02: 31
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    After a full-fledged trial by jury, criminals, with an individual approach.
    And not on the order to fill the Norillag.

    lies. both the first part and the second. most of the cases in the states were slaughtered, and are now being closed, "by agreement of the parties," that is, through direct pressure from the investigation and lawyers on the suspect. about the distribution list in general fierce nonsense.
    Quote: Arzt
    But do not drag others there.

    propose to drag to where they just shoot without further ado, as in the United States? belay
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 08: 41
    0
    lies. both the first part and the second. most of the cases in the states were slaughtered, and are now being closed, "by agreement of the parties," that is, through direct pressure from the investigation and lawyers on the suspect.

    And it's great that there is such an opportunity.
    If we did not have everyone rowing without fail after a drunken brawl at a disco, you see, there would be fewer repeat offenders.
    In the morning we overslept, the lawyers met, calculated the amount of damage, paid off, parted as friends. The main thing is not to get hungover together. laughing

    about the list of general fierce nonsense.

    Where have you spent the last 30 years? laughing
    A lot of documents have been declassified!
    Read the basic Order of the NKVD of the USSR No. 00447 dated July 30, 1937.

    propose to drag to where they just shoot without further ado, as in the United States?

    If you sell drugs and twitch at the police, then yes, they will shoot you. It is right.
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 16: 18
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    And it's great that there is such an opportunity.

    oooh yeah !! wassat
    Quote: Arzt
    If we did not have everyone rowing without fail after a drunken brawl at a disco, you see, there would be fewer repeat offenders.

    funny laughing in the states of rowing not for a fight, but for the fact that he was next to him, and then the investigator and the lawyer explain to you that now you are signing up for a confession of participation in the theft, or you are now also holding drugs that will be hanged to the ranks, so choose, for 3 years or 15 years, from to and worse. Well? by 3? that's agreed laughing no investigation, evidence, etc.
    Quote: Arzt
    In the morning we overslept, the lawyers met, calculated the amount of damage, paid off, parted as friends. The main thing is not to get hungover together.

    well, you won't be allowed to hangover in an American prison, but for the damage that someone has done, just pay for several years of work in a private jail wink
    Quote: Arzt
    Where have you spent the last 30 years?
    A lot of documents have been declassified!
    Read the basic Order of the NKVD of the USSR No. 00447 dated July 30, 1937.

    Whoa whoa! belay Since you are such an expert on documents, can you also tell about the trial of Yezhov? oto somehow ripped 1937 out of the historical context and a gap here that in the USSR they were shot according to the order.
    By the way, are you aware of what Ezhov received such powers in 1937?
    Quote: Arzt
    If you sell drugs and twitch at the police, then yes, they will shoot you. It is right.

    go lol and even if he didn't fall into the asphalt at the request of a policeman laughing or protested as students at the University of Ket. either he was not satisfied with the working conditions as miners in the "coal wars", or demanded the promised payments as veterans of the First World War during the defeat of the "coupon army". the latter, by the way, were suppressed by tanks, and the miners and aviation were used. wink
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 18: 03
    0
    payments as veterans of the First World War during the defeat of the "coupon army". the latter were suppressed by tanks

    Well, well, no need to whip up horror. And that is how the guts are seen, wound on caterpillars. wassat
    Results:
    Injured
    55 people were wounded, 135 people were arrested.
    Casualties
    William Hushka is a veteran gunned down by the police at the start of the conflict.
    Eric Carlson is a veteran gunned down by the police at the start of the conflict.
    Bernard Myers is a 12-week-old infant who was poisoned by tear gas during a US Army attack.

    And this after large-scale riots in the capital. wink
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 18: 17
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    Well, well, no need to whip up horror. And that is how the guts are seen, wound on caterpillars.

    is not it so? belay or do you think that these cases that I have given are all? was everything else all right? it was not so. regular riots that the army regularly suppresses and regularly kills someone. does your "paradise" look like this? belay
    By the way, you still haven't answered why you are so attracted by the prospect of falling into the mud at the first request of a policeman? are you a masochist? belay
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 18: 58
    0
    is not it so? belay or do you think that these cases that I have given are all? was everything else all right? it was not so. regular riots that the army regularly suppresses and regularly kills someone. does your "paradise" look like this? belay

    What to do, they adopted such laws. Their people have the right to revolt.

    But when a long series of abuses and violence, invariably subordinate to the same goal, testifies to the insidious plan to force the people to come to terms with unlimited despotism, the overthrow of such a government and the creation of new guarantees of security for the future becomes the right and duty of the people.

    Declaration of Independence


    We've gone far. I still think there is nothing wrong with reaching an agreement in the pre-trial order. Let such a law be.
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 19: 13
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    What to do, they adopted such laws. Their people have the right to revolt.

    But when a long series of abuses and violence, invariably subordinate to the same goal, testifies to the insidious plan to force the people to come to terms with unlimited despotism, the overthrow of such a government and the creation of new guarantees of security for the future becomes the right and duty of the people.

    Declaration of Independence

    true! soldier but there is one detail that is not advertised. the government has the right to suppress such uprisings by all available means, which is what they are doing. just recently there were 4 dead protesters and one policeman during the capture of the Capitol .. and the funny thing is that it doesn’t stop them from teaching someone to respect human rights wassat
    Quote: Arzt
    I still think there is nothing wrong with reaching an agreement in the pre-trial order. Let such a law be.
    You are a little confused by the pre-trial agreement, it is probably in all judicial systems, including ours, and conviction without investigation based on pressure on the suspect. these are slightly different cases. in one case, the litigants agree before the trial, in another case, the suspect is forced to agree with the unproven accusation and go to jail for a very realistic period. Let me remind you that the United States ranks first in the world in terms of the number of prisoners. And we have not yet touched on such a truly wonderful topic as Guantanama and the secret CIA prisons in the EU and other countries where not only people are held without trial, but also third degree measures are applied to them, and this is not once there in the last century, but now.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 19: 00
    0
    By the way, you still haven't answered why you are so attracted by the prospect of falling into the mud at the first request of a policeman? are you a masochist? belay

    Who is falling? This stoned nergitos who was strangled and then buried in a golden coffin? So he did not fall, they put him down. No need to rock the boat, follow the instructions of the policeman, he is a representative of the authorities.
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 19: 22
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    Who is falling? This stoned nergitos who was strangled and then buried in a golden coffin?

    ha ha ha wassat thank you for reminding me of this comedy! hi no, I'm not talking about him, I'm talking about the fact that in the USA this is the norm.
    By the way, if you've always heard about protests niggas in the US? I have not heard about them since the election of Biden .... a coincidence? I don't think so. wink
    Quote: Arzt
    No need to rock the boat, follow the instructions of the policeman, he is a representative of the authorities.

    funny .. that is, in the USA this is normal and if you do not fulfill the requirements of a police officer, then he can shoot you on a completely legal basis, but in Russia, if a police officer demands something from you, is this lawlessness and police arbitrariness?
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 19: 32
    0
    funny .. that is, in the USA this is normal and if you do not fulfill the requirements of a police officer, then he can shoot you on a completely legal basis, but in Russia, if a police officer demands something from you, is this lawlessness and police arbitrariness?

    Not. You can't rock the cops anywhere. But the police must also be within limits.
    Normal laws and strict implementation. Everyone. To strive for this.
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 19: 41
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    You can't rock the cops anywhere. But the police must also be within limits.
    Normal laws and strict implementation. Everyone. To strive for this.

    I agree with this, but neither we nor the United States have it. request I mean fully. yes, probably nowhere it is. everywhere there is a "black sheep" .... the question is what they are striving for. we definitely strive for order, in the USA it's hard to say. there, morality and the rules to be followed strongly depend on the political situation, and corruption is completely legalized in the form of lobbying. request
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 20: 21
    -1
    I agree with this, but neither we nor the United States have it. request I mean to the fullest. yes, probably nowhere it is. everywhere there is a "black sheep" .... the question is what they are striving for. we definitely strive for order, in the USA it's hard to say. there, morality and the rules to be followed strongly depend on the political situation, and corruption is completely legalized in the form of lobbying.

    I am not idealizing the United States at all. Shit in bulk and they.

    It's just that some here paint the period of Comrade Dzhugashvili's rule as an ideal to strive for.

    And for me - perhaps the worst time to live in Russia, yes the last 300 years.
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 22: 40
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    I am not idealizing the United States at all. Shit in bulk and they.

    It's just that some here paint the period of Comrade Dzhugashvili's rule as an ideal to strive for.

    I also do not idealize the Stalinist period, some of Yezhov's repressions are worth something, but it was objectively better than in the United States, Britain and any other "democratic" country. facts, only facts. the availability of education, the availability of medicine, social justice, the standard of living of the majority of the population, the level of social stratification.
    Quote: Arzt
    And for me - perhaps the worst time to live in Russia, yes the last 300 years.

    if you are a banker or landowner, then definitely bully but this is an insignificant part of the population of the country which can be donated without any problems glad for the good of the vast majority wink
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 18: 05
    0
    the gap here is that in the USSR they were shot according to the order.

    They were not shot, but recruited to concentration camps according to the order. For work.
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 18: 28
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    They were not shot, but recruited to concentration camps according to the order. For work.

    lies again request Have you there in the liberoid get-together all the prisons in "concentration camps" renamed or only those prisons that are in the USSR? Are American or British penal servitude concentration camps? wassat it turns out that the United States, the British and all other countries where there are prisons, they are all almost fascists? belay and long before the Bolsheviks, and the people in their concentration camps were killed many times more than the Bolsheviks wink
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 19: 22
    0
    again a lie request you there in the liberoid get-together have all the prisons renamed into "concentration camps" or only those prisons that are in the USSR?

    Are you the bureau of the Odessa regional committee of the CP (b) U in the liberoid get-together? laughing

    Don't be shy, the concentration camp was just a CONCENTRATION camp back then.
    It was later Aloizovich who gave the term charm. wink
  • Doctor
    Doctor 28 February 2021 18: 10
    0
    what? by 3? so we agreed to laughing no investigation, evidence, and so on.

    Tell about 3 years old, investigation and evidence to Alexander
    Kravchenko, who was shot for Chikatilo. what
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 18: 33
    0
    Quote: Arzt
    Tell about 3 years old, investigation and evidence to Alexander
    Kravchenko, who was shot for Chikatilo.

    cool! and how many in the US were fried in the electric chair? are all the guilty ones? come on, tell me that's all wassat
    in the USSR it was a miscarriage of justice, but in the USA this is the norm request judged as convenient. over there, the Indians sit on the reservations like cattle, and Sergeant Kelly, who killed 200 women and children in Song Mi, received 3 years of house arrest. law however ... no! Law! wassat
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 08: 57
    +1
    Quote: Arzt
    Lenin was also tough, he called to kill the bourgeoisie and landowners.
    However, he did not kill his political opponents.

    You HISTORY of your country ... read carefully. And then the WORLD history, at the same time.
    Find by the PRESENT SERIOUS LEADERS / LEADERS / LEADERS who led truly significant historical processes / events that did not eliminate their opponents in one way or another !!!
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 February 2021 09: 26
      -3
      You HISTORY of your country ... read carefully. And then the WORLD history, at the same time.
      Find by the PRESENT SERIOUS LEADERS / LEADERS / LEADERS who led truly significant historical processes / events that did not eliminate their opponents in one way or another !!!

      Since the era of humanism, in developed countries - there are none. Or there are, but isolated cases.

      And here is a whole philosophy: no man - no problem. Hence the massiveness, illegibility in the means, pseudo-vessels.

      But you need to remember the classics: "And with what measure you mete, it will be measured to you also."

      When in the basement of the headquarters of the Moscow Military District, Colonel-General Batitsky's bullet put an end to the life of Lavrenty Pavlovich, he should not have been surprised.
      This is the natural course of things in the system that he himself created.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 February 2021 09: 46
        +2
        Quote: Arzt
        Since the era of humanism, in developed countries - there are none. Or there are, but isolated cases

        Yes, yes, it is especially noticeable now how "humanism" in those "developed, dermocratic" countries is flourishing!
        And this despite the fact that events, magnitude, more small-town showdowns do not occur.
        In short, do not tell my horseshoes.
        It was, is and WILL BE, if SERIOUS, SIGNIFICANT events begin to occur.
        There is no other way, at least at this historical stage of the development of human society.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 10 February 2021 10: 47
          -3
          Yes, yes, it is especially noticeable now how "humanism" in those "developed, dermocratic" countries is flourishing!
          And this despite the fact that events, magnitude, more small-town showdowns do not occur.
          In short, do not tell my horseshoes.

          During the 20th century, the United States, Britain and others have also experienced depression, famine, world wars and crises.
          And what, how many Laborites in England were repressed? And the Republicans in the United States?
          Is Trump already in prison? Even if he sits down, then after a real trial with a battle of lawyers.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 10 February 2021 11: 37
            -3
            In short, with your history ... it has not grown together.
            Further it is not interesting.
            1. Doctor
              Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 45
              +6
              In short, with your history ... it has not grown together.
              Further it is not interesting.

              Have you read Churchill's memoirs? They cut off the metal fence from Westminster to the cannons, but did not start the carnage between them. Winston just lost the election.

              And Lenin did not torture Dzerzhinsky in the cell after the Left SR revolt, but released Masha Spiridonova altogether.
              And after 1953, Nikita Sergeevich was also simply sent to retire, if not to Kolyma.

              So whatever you say, but the answer to the title of the article is one:

              When carrying out repressions in the 30s, Stalin was guided by the peculiarities of the psyche of Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili.
            2. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 10 February 2021 17: 18
              0
              Quote: Arzt
              When carrying out repressions in the 30s, Stalin was guided by the peculiarities of the psyche of Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili.

              Absolutely agree!
        2. Andrey VOV
          Andrey VOV 10 February 2021 11: 47
          +2
          Do not compare the beginning of the 20th century and the present time ... it is not correct at all
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 10 February 2021 11: 58
        +3
        Yes Victor negative wassat laughing wink A colleague knows how to make fun of super-humanism! If at first thought, without details ... This is ---
        White Irish slaves in the states
        Fencing
        Black Colonels in Greece
        Massacre of Armenians ~ 100 years ago by Turks
        Stroessner who destroyed the Paraguayan Indians
        Batista, Somoza, Pinochet and others like them
        30 million Indians ruined by the brazen suks
        Massacre of Buddhists in Indonesia at Suharto
        Massacre unleashed by the French in Africa and Siam
        The extermination of the pale-faced indigenous population in the states and Australia
        Well, at the very end, the very fact of the First World War and everything that happened then, the very fact of the Second World War, Hitler and his actions ... Probably everyone knows about the XXI century. Somehow the colleague of the philosophy of predatory animals did not notice!
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 10 February 2021 12: 37
          0
          Yes, Victor negative wassat laughing wink A colleague knows how to laugh about super-humanism! If at first thought, without details ... This is ---
          White Irish slaves in the states
          Fencing
          Black Colonels in Greece
          Massacre of Armenians ~ 100 years ago by Turks
          Stroessner who destroyed the Paraguayan Indians
          Batista, Somoza, Pinochet and others like them
          30 million Indians ruined by the brazen suks
          Massacre of Buddhists in Indonesia at Suharto
          Massacre unleashed by the French in Africa and Siam
          The extermination of the pale-faced indigenous population in the states and Australia
          Well, at the very end, the very fact of the First World War and everything that happened then, the very fact of the Second World War, Hitler and his actions ... Probably everyone knows about the XXI century. Somehow the colleague of the philosophy of predatory animals did not notice!

          They collected a little. Start with Adam on the scale of the Universe.

          But the main question was not answered.
          Where does the Stalinist USSR with its multi-party democracy belong? laughing
        2. rocket757
          rocket757 10 February 2021 12: 43
          -2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          A colleague knows how to make fun

          Do not have any illusions, Dmitry ... this is, from a completely different category, an agent and an enemy, fortunately, not very dangerous, is outright nonsense. Not interested.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 10 February 2021 13: 56
            0
            hi These are not illusions, Victor! This is my laughing joke. Yes, chatter about the humanism of the West does not work HERE, where colleagues have knowledge and education. But the youth ......... Why would the West be humane? When the most unprincipled, cruel ones survived and climbed up:
            Crassus, Sulla, Nero, etc.
            Constantine the Great
            King Charles I, aka Emperor Charles V
            The Girondins in 1794
            King James Stewart
            Louis XIV, Henry IV
            Conquistadors !!!!!
            British and French, Dutch in the colonies
            Moreover, they had confidants, a courtyard, a whole stratum of the population
          2. rocket757
            rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 12
            -1
            If you are worried about the youth, you want to direct them on the path ... the right one, do not try to overload their brain with "reserved" knowledge ... they, many, will not master this. They will not understand, they will not listen / read.
          3. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 10 February 2021 23: 13
            +2
            Quote: rocket757
            If you are worried about the youth, you want to direct them on the path ... the right one, do not try to overload their brain with "reserved" knowledge ... they, many, will not master this. They will not understand, they will not listen / read.

            I'm not just worried, I just know that there may come a time for everyone when something that I haven’t thought about before becomes important and understandable. It's good if at the same time the person does not say to himself - how narrow I was, or something worse.
        3. Doctor
          Doctor 10 February 2021 15: 28
          +1
          hi These are not illusions, Victor! This is my laughing joke. Yes, chatter about the humanism of the West does not go HERE, where colleagues have knowledge and education. But the youth ......... Why would the West be humane? When the most unprincipled, cruel ones survived and climbed up:
          Crassus, Sulla, Nero, etc.
          Constantine the Great
          King Charles I, aka Emperor Charles V
          The Girondins in 1794
          King James Stewart
          Louis XIV, Henry IV
          Conquistadors !!!!!
          British and French, Dutch in the colonies
          Moreover, they had confidants, a courtyard, a whole stratum of the population

          I say, you still remember the Neanderthals.

          Everyone had something. But everyone appreciated this.
          Black colonels - junta, Suharto, Pinochet, Hitler - dictators, slaughter and slaughter is bad.
          By the way, Comrade Stalin was also assessed, and not by the "liberals" but by his closest associates and the party as a whole.
          However, fans of the "strong hand" are ineradicable ...
  • paul3390
    paul3390 10 February 2021 11: 35
    +4
    Since the era of humanism, in developed countries - there are none. Or there are, but isolated cases.

    French Revolution, no? English? Also no? Are these not developed countries? Not the era of humanism? Isolated cases?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 37
      +3
      French Revolution, no? English? Also no? Are these not developed countries? Not the era of humanism? Isolated cases?

      Well I say:
      Since the era of humanism

      You take the periods of the formation of humanism as an ideology.

      I do not condemn Ivan the Terrible and even Peter I, they are people of their era.
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 10 February 2021 11: 44
        0
        Excuse me - from what moment do you count the era of humanism ?? what I thought so out of dullness - that since the 16th century for sure .. belay

        Already the French Revolution - it was completely enlightened in times. I am already silent about the Paris Commune ..
  • paul3390
    paul3390 10 February 2021 11: 48
    0
    Since the era of humanism, in developed countries - there are none. Or there are, but isolated cases.

    But by the way - Aloizievich there, Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, Pinochet - do not count as well? Did they rule wild countries in prehuman times? Ali did not carry out terror on a large scale? Or maybe their states were not quite civilized? Am I wrong somewhere?
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 53
      +2
      But by the way - Aloizievich there, Mussolini, Franco, Salazar, Pinochet - do not count as well? Did they rule wild countries in prehuman times? Ali did not carry out terror on a large scale? Or maybe their states were not quite civilized? Am I wrong somewhere?

      No, you are not mistaken. Some of the totalitarian regimes were clearly listed.
      But we were not on our way with them, right? lol
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 10 February 2021 12: 03
        +2
        Is it ?? what Well, of course, we are unlikely to sink to Nazism, the wrong country, but something in common with Mussolini's Italy is quite visible .. Duce is already there - and all the other attributes of classic Italian fascism are multiplying every year .. And all this is polished openly neo-feudal bells and whistles .. So - do not excuse yourself ..
      2. Illanatol
        Illanatol April 16 2021 08: 27
        0
        Would have won the "white" in the GV - it would be on the way. Kornilov admired Mussolini. It could well become its counterpart.
        And there was also Baron Ungern - the standard of the Aryan, according to Hitler's definition.
        1. Doctor
          Doctor April 16 2021 08: 51
          0
          Would have won the "white" in the GV - it would be on the way. Kornilov admired Mussolini. It could well become its counterpart.
          And there was also Baron Ungern - the standard of the Aryan, according to Hitler's definition.

          Never. Whites and socialism are incompatible.
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 10 February 2021 16: 34
    -1
    Quote: Arzt
    no man no problem

    Can you tell me when and who said?
  • Barmal
    Barmal 10 February 2021 17: 40
    +2
    Quote: Arzt
    When in the basement of the headquarters of the Moscow Military District, Colonel-General Batitsky's bullet put an end to the life of Lavrenty Pavlovich, he should not have been surprised.
    This is the natural course of things in the system that he himself created.

    victim of a coup in the Central Committee. And the system was created by Lenin and Dzerzhinsky. Don't forget this.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 11 February 2021 09: 13
      0
      victim of a coup in the Central Committee. And the system was created by Lenin and Dzerzhinsky. Don't forget this.

      Sure. Since there are no normal elections, there will be coups.
      But the fact that you recognize the existence of the SYSTEM is already good.
      1. Barmal
        Barmal 12 February 2021 20: 17
        0
        And the system was developed in England, back in the days of Herzen's "Bell". Traitors there could always find themselves a piece of butter for a piece of bread and a plate of red caviar.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 36
    +1
    Quote: rocket757
    Some did not eliminate their opponents in one way or another !!!

    for example his contemporaries - Churchill, Roosevelt, Nehru ... enough?
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 11 February 2021 11: 52
    +1
    Let us even recall the same bloodthirsty Chilean general A. Pinochet: on that September morning in 1973, he offered President Allende a couple of times to transfer power to him and leave for Cuba, at least somewhere else. Maybe Pinochet himself thought of it, or maybe the guys from Washington advised.
    PS Decades have passed, and once PS Deinekin came to our air town # 38 in Poltava - he was our division commander for several years. First, a solemn, general part in the museum of the division, then meetings with old and still living colleagues, drinks We recalled the past and he once said about those years that we (the USSR ADD) then received an order in Poltava, Vinnitsa and Smolensk to keep one at a time a bomber (still Tu-16) for the possible export of Salvador Allende with his family and entourage from the capital of Chile. But by the evening of September 11, it was already clear that no one was going anywhere. But Chile, although the Nazis, gave the go-ahead for landing at its airbase near the capital. History reveals secrets over the years.
    However, Pinochet himself was very good at the USSR and there is a lot of evidence of this. He even came to our Antarctic stations to drink Russian vodka. And he spoke Russian passably. And if the KGB had worked more closely with Pinochet, they could have lured him into our camp and the coup would have been pro-Soviet and would have brought Chile to the camp of socialism. And President Allende was a leftist and a Trotskyist, and by the fall of 1973 he had brought his country into complete impasse and chaos ... Alas. We must tell the people the truth.
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 10 February 2021 11: 44
    +1
    Lenin simply did not have time ... for sure, he would have done the same, if he had lived longer and had better health, and maybe even better ...
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 February 2021 12: 03
      +3
      Lenin simply did not have time ... for sure, he would have done the same, if he had lived longer and had better health, and maybe even better ...

      Not. Intellectual.

      Here you need a person with a special temperament, brought up in the tradition of blood feud, experience of personal participation in EKS and passionately loving power. wink
      1. Andrey VOV
        Andrey VOV 10 February 2021 12: 32
        +1
        Lenin is an intellectual? Well, I would not say ... I would not say ... how is he about the Church ??? but about the Red Terror? No, Stalin's participation in the raids is not the main thing in further repressions
        1. Doctor
          Doctor 10 February 2021 12: 39
          +1
          Lenin is an intellectual? Well, I would not say ... I would not say ... how is he about the Church ??? but about the Red Terror? No, Stalin's participation in the raids is not the main thing in further repressions

          Perhaps not the main thing. But one of the building blocks of personality is for sure.
          Here you need a detailed research of specialists.
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 11 February 2021 18: 43
        -1
        Quote: Arzt
        experience of personal participation in EXs

        What-oo ... Again ..
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 10 February 2021 18: 13
      +1
      If Lenin had lived for a few more years, he would have repeated the fate of his comrade-in-arms Trotsky.
      Stalin would have kicked Lenin out and then slapped him with an ice pick or killed him right away.
      This is not my point that Lenin and Trotsky were good — they were also cruel adventurers.
      And besides, in the fight of the outrageous, the most cruel outlaw wins.
      Here Stalin had no equal.
  • Barmal
    Barmal 10 February 2021 17: 34
    +3
    funny about Lenin. He tormented the priest's strata as best he could. You are a storyteller. About the death of the Romanov family N.2. I won't even speak.
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 10 February 2021 18: 13
      -1
      funny about Lenin. He tormented the priest's strata as best he could. You are a storyteller. About the death of the Romanov family N.2. I won't even speak.

      Yes, I do not argue, maybe he would be cooler. winked
      Although according to the Romanovs, this is personal. Because of such cruelty.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 10 February 2021 09: 11
    -4
    Quote: Finches
    Victory in the Great Patriotic War, spacewalk, the creation of nuclear weapons and much more showed that Joseph Vissarionovich was right in the strategic perspective!

    The creation of nuclear weapons prevented the occupation of the country even after the collapse of the USSR, and until now, nuclear weapons and the entire atomic industry created by the country under J.V. Stalin are still the guarantor of Russia's independence (despite the screeching of its own democrats).
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 10 February 2021 11: 41
      +3
      And admirers of VIKI, in general, there is NOTHING to talk about.
      Why waste time in vain, not sit them at the desk, they are not given. Let them, they live with it.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 35
    +3
    Quote: Finches
    And on a national scale, the percentage of repressed people is not so significant

    Namely, even Sverdlov introduced% destruction of the Cossacks, long before the Nazis ... request
    Quote: Finches
    Victory in the Great Patriotic War,

    we still count losses ...
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 08: 50
    0
    Why admire, praise ???
    It is necessary to evaluate EVERYTHING THAT WAS, to give an objective assessment of the events, actions of people ...
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 February 2021 11: 00
      0
      Quote: rocket757
      Why admire, praise ???
      It is necessary to evaluate EVERYTHING THAT WAS, to give an objective assessment of the events, actions of people ...

      In order to give an objective assessment, one must (must) proceed from the realities of that time, and most do not even bother about this ... Consider the background and general state of that society both in the country and in the world as a whole.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 February 2021 11: 54
        -1
        Gaps in education, knowledge, even common sense cannot compensate ... although it can suggest that VIKI and other dubious sources are wasted time!
        But the time spent on self-education is not in vain if you do it systematically, according to classical methods and reliable sources.
        The library is necessary, there is a storehouse of everything and always.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 10 February 2021 11: 57
          -3
          Quote: rocket757
          The library is necessary, there is a storehouse of everything and always.

          Sometimes you just need to understand that "a hungry belly is deaf to study" and "a well-fed does not understand a hungry" are not abstract phrases ..
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 10 February 2021 12: 50
            -2
            Those. to do only what they pay more for?
            This does not always work, for various reasons.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 10 February 2021 12: 56
              -3
              Quote: rocket757
              Those. to do only what they pay more for?

              And on what basis are these conclusions?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 10 February 2021 13: 09
                -1
                Well, "hungry, not fed ...." is this about?
                I didn't understand how to compare or contrast this?
                I remember one thing, in my student years, the loss of the scholarship greatly contributed to the zeal for the subjects ... either study hard, or unload wagons / boxes. Although, everyone had different preferences.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 13: 13
                  -1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  I remember one thing, in my student years, the loss of a scholarship, very much contributed to the zeal for subjects

                  Well, here is just a classic example of using a modern ruler for measurements of that time ... How can you equate in thinking people who have never known hunger with those who have experienced it for generations ...
                2. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 13: 24
                  -1
                  Actually, I'm not talking about hunger, in its worst definition! All my student years, this is the time of Brezhnev's stability ... there was always a kind, friendly soul that helped ...
                  In OUR Soviet history there were different periods, in the post-Soviet period, one period lasts, but everything is also not uniform ...
                  And so, I don’t understand who you’re trying to compare with ... the rich fat-belly who live grief / hunger do not know against the working people who live very differently ... but you still have to be able to bring it to a state of hunger ...
                  so who, with whom? Who is not a friend to whom and who, what, interferes with learning.
                3. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 13: 26
                  0
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Otherwise, I don’t understand who you are trying to compare with ..

                  Am I comparing?
                  "In order to give an objective assessment, one must (must) proceed from the realities of that time, and the majority do not even bother about this ... Take into account the prehistory and general state of that society both in the country and in the world as a whole." - Where?
                4. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 13: 53
                  -3
                  Knowledge, skills, this is what remains with a person forever, as a rule, there should be no reason why a person is deprived of the opportunity to receive them. At least for our Soviet past, this was fundamental, with the exception ... in general, there are always exceptions.
                  About our modern reality .. everything is very ambiguous and this is our reality.
                5. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 14: 01
                  -1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Knowledge, skills, this is what remains with a person forever, as a rule, there should be no reasons why a person is deprived of the opportunity to receive them.

                  Well, what about those who believe that the reasons should be based on the right of birth, or on the property qualification?
                  Only for the people of that time, the overwhelming majority still remembered what it was and once again - the horrors of two wars passed.
                6. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 05
                  0
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Well, what about those who believe that the reasons should be based on the right of birth, or on the property qualification?

                  Press, on the fact of their dehumanization ... only what they have prepared for others.
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  Only for the people of that time, the overwhelming majority still remembered what it was and once again - the horrors of two wars passed.

                  People went through everything and remained HUMAN BEINGS!
                7. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 14: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Press, on the fact of their dehumanization ... only what they have prepared for others.

                  So this is repression ..
                8. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 16
                  -2
                  That is what we DESERVE!
                  If repression is a rule for them to LIVE AS EVERYTHING, to obey the laws and norms of behavior in OUR society, then ... let them search, go to where it is smeared with honey for them, and do not try to arrange their paradise with us, at the expense of others.
                9. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 14: 18
                  -1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  If repression is a rule for them to LIVE AS EVERYONE,

                  Do you think these rules are the same in the 30s of the last century and in the 20s of this century?
                10. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 23
                  -1
                  States are different, the social system is different, the ruling class is different .... what to compare with what? THEY ARE PRINCIPALLY DIFFERENT!
                11. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 14: 24
                  -1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  States are different, the social system is different, the ruling class is different .... what to compare with what? THEY ARE PRINCIPALLY DIFFERENT!

                  Well, why do they compare ..
                12. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 49
                  -1
                  The reasons are different. Someone has phantom pains, nostalgia, and some have envy, anger.
                  People are different. It has always been that way.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 February 2021 13: 35
    +4
    Sorry, comrades, I will ask a question. Perhaps the loss of the scholarship was not forever, but for a while and with the possibility of returning it? The goal was - to stimulate good grades, and not to lead to credit slavery and hunger?
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 13: 46
    0
    Dmitry, credit slavery and our Soviet history DO NOT COMBINE, at the official level, of course! Although, it was possible even then to find and get involved ... well, this is really a completely personal initiative / skill / luck.
    And so yes, the scholarship had to be EARNED, by good study or by some other methods ... which were everywhere and always! Trust the former half-time laboratory assistant and participant of the institute's amateur music performances ... although he studied with dignity, but everything in life / study happened, it was possible to fill up the session and at the whim of the "beloved" teacher, and in general, there were options to lose the scholarship.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 February 2021 14: 12
    +2
    Well, yes, the USSR is socialism. Credit slavery --- capitalism
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 14: 25
    0
    Everything is correct. In the USSR, credit, it was not a means of profit for the banks, the state !!! it was a way to help the workers!
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 10 February 2021 14: 06
    +1
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Perhaps the loss of the scholarship was not forever, but for a while and with the opportunity to return?

    In the 30s, they still remembered that ordinary people could not even think about the place "where the scholarship could be lost" in principle .. and people who, so to speak, considered it normal lived nearby.
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 11 February 2021 17: 54
    0
    "... that is, either study hard or unload the wagons / boxes."
    Sometimes one does not exclude the other. When I was studying, the welfare of the family was far from brilliant. The first year and half of the second (from the second semester of the second year special subjects went) there were wagons, and boxes, and platforms with sand at a glass factory. And only then it stopped due to the fact that I began to do laboratory, coursework, translations from English, even diploma for senior courses. Then the need for wagons / boxes disappeared. But without the base obtained through the wagon / box period, all this would not have happened.
    There are no minuses among you.
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 February 2021 12: 02
    -1
    Quote: rocket757
    Why admire, praise ???
    It is necessary to evaluate EVERYTHING THAT WAS, to give an objective assessment of the events, actions of people ...

    This is, of course, correct, but not always in practice.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 10 February 2021 12: 52
      -1
      Quote: Reptiloid
      in practice, not always.

      With us, no one forces only to praise or scold ... if YOURSELF chose a place where you need / can only one thing, these are personal problems!
  • Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 28 February 2021 02: 24
    0
    Quote: ASAD
    Interestingly, how would you ,, admire ,, hitting for ten years in the Kolyma?

    that is, you do not see any other development of your fate except banditry? well then you really have one road - to the Kolyma, the homeland of your fear laughing
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 08: 47
    +2
    There was a personality! There were victories and miscalculations / mistakes !!! There was no defeat until they came to worthless, corrupt little people to power in the country.
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 10 February 2021 08: 47
    -2
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Sad ... Probably there was no other way and choice to speed up the industrialization process.

    If we had gone the other way, then on June 22, 1941 we would have had nothing to meet the fascist hordes with.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 38
      0
      Quote: tihonmarine
      we would have nothing to meet the fascist hordes with.

      yes, before that, Russia fought for 1000 years request that before 1941, the Red Army is one of the terrible examples of defeat in history ... request
      1. boris epstein
        boris epstein 11 February 2021 18: 08
        -1
        Tsushima and the defeat in the Russo-Japanese war on land. Rozhdestvensky and Kuropatkin. The surrender of Port Arthur and the death of the First Pacific Squadron. Stark, Stoessel, Alekseev, the Tsar's governor in the Far East. The invasion of the Mongol-Tatars and the complete defeat from Batu (internecine strife between the princes), and then 280 years of yoke, the defeat of the army of Peter I near Narva, the defeat of the Russian army near Austerlitz.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 18: 15
          +1
          Quote: Boris Epstein
          and then 280 years of yoke

          hmm, it cannot be treated ... bully
          1. boris epstein
            boris epstein 11 February 2021 18: 53
            -2
            Have you experienced it yourself? Then it is clear.
            I re-read the entire thread. Your comments, sir, are peppered with insults addressed to opponents in the absence of arguments to refute. Maybe you should still hold back?
            On business. The defeat of the Russian army took place in 1236, in fact, the Mongol-Tatar yoke was thrown off not after the defeat of Mamai's army on the Kulikovo field, but after John III Vasilyevich refused to pay tribute to the Horde.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 12 February 2021 11: 03
              0
              Quote: Boris Epstein
              Your comments, sir, are peppered with insults addressed to opponents in the absence of arguments to refute.

              can an example of insults? wink maybe you are not able to evaluate the arguments? it happens... hi
              Quote: Boris Epstein
              The defeat of the Russian army took place in 1236,

              were you there? bully by the way - it seems that it came in the fall of 1237 ...
              1. boris epstein
                boris epstein 12 February 2021 16: 04
                -1
                Likewise, you were not there.
                "... maybe you are not able to evaluate the arguments? and this happens ..."
                A misunderstood genius ahead of his time? There are no such people now ...
                1. boris epstein
                  boris epstein 12 February 2021 16: 19
                  -2
                  In general, you could not refute anything of what I said.
                  So there are no arguments of yours that could be assessed.
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 13 February 2021 11: 56
                    0
                    Quote: Boris Epstein
                    In general, you could not refute anything of what I said.

                    did not even try, but you did not confirm your lies:
                    Quote: Boris Epstein
                    Your comments, sir, are sprinkled with insults in

                    hi
                    Quote: Boris Epstein
                    A misunderstood genius ahead of his time?

                    A genius is not a genius, but it is quite clever and realized ... wink compared to me, a pitiful notorious dropout ... request
                    1. boris epstein
                      boris epstein 13 February 2021 16: 19
                      -1
                      "A genius is not a genius, but quite clever and realized ... wink in comparison with me, a pitiful notorious dropout ..."
                      This is you about yourself. This is not a question, but a statement of fact.
                      Without trying to refute, it is impossible to prove your mind. So go to Napoleon, in the 6th ward!
                    2. DrEng527
                      DrEng527 14 February 2021 15: 00
                      +1
                      Quote: Boris Epstein
                      So go to Napoleon, in the 6th ward!

                      another self-taught psychiatrist bully from vocational schools ...
  • kalibr
    kalibr 11 February 2021 17: 02
    -2
    Quote: tihonmarine
    If we had gone the other way, then on June 22, 1941 we would have had nothing to meet the fascist hordes with.

    Interestingly, when Russia fought with Germany in WWI, there were no repressions before the war, but not a single private prisoner of war or officer went over to the side of Germany, did not break the oath and did not join the enemy's ranks with arms in hand. In the USSR, on the eve of the war, there were purges and nevertheless, about 1 million people, at least (there is a figure and 1,2 million) went over to the side of the enemy. Including generals and colonels (not only Vlasov) and even Heroes of the Soviet Union, not counting Bobrobabenko (28 Panfilov's soldier), who did not know that he was a hero. And they forgot the oath and that's all ... and went to fight! Why is that? This was not the case in RI, but in the USSR it was on a huge scale!
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 11 February 2021 17: 37
      -1
      Quote: kalibr
      Interestingly, when Russia fought with Germany in WWI before the war, there were no repressions, but not a single private prisoner of war or officer went over to Germany

      Maybe that's why the revolution happened.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 11 February 2021 20: 48
        -1
        That is, loyalty to the oath before the attack of a cruel enemy caused the revolution? How should this be understood, how is a diagnosis?
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 11 February 2021 23: 37
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          That is, loyalty to the oath before the attack of a cruel enemy caused the revolution? How should this be understood, how is a diagnosis?

          They remained faithful to the oath, but at this time the revolutionaries decomposed them, to a revolutionary condition. And no oath helped. And the oath was given to the tsar, whom they had betrayed, and first of all the generals - Alekseev (Chief of the General Staff), Evert A.E. (Western Front), Brusilov A.A. (South-Western Front), Sakharov V.V. ( Romanian Front), Ruza (Northern Front) ,.
          A. Nepenin (Baltic Fleet).
          So you understand, you are a historian.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 12 February 2021 07: 27
            0
            We are not talking about the king - do not distort. We say that none of the soldiers and officers of the Russian army went to the Germans and did not fight with weapons on their side. But there were a lot of such Soviet soldiers and officers!
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 04: 44
        -2
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Maybe that's why the revolution happened.

        And the deserters wonder who is this? And how is the refusal to fight? And why not - the Bolsheviks "decomposed" the army.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 12 February 2021 08: 57
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          And nuda - the Bolsheviks "decomposed" the army.

          Are you talking about 1991, or something else?
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 29
            -1
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Are you talking about 1991, or something else?

            Well, the conversation is "for" PMA ... Hundreds of thousands of soldiers ran from the army.
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 12 February 2021 10: 48
              +2
              Quote: mat-vey
              Well, the conversation is "for" PMA ... Hundreds of thousands of soldiers ran from the army.

              Exactly in 1917 they fled. And then they rubbed their brains on me that they were faithful to the oath. That they did not run to the Germans, but skidded from the front.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 12 February 2021 10: 56
                0
                Quote: tihonmarine
                That they did not run to the Germans, but skidded from the front.

                Well, here is a former propagandist, in the most polite form, he tries to assure that "this other" does not affect military actions at all, and refusal to fight this way in general can not be considered something beyond the ordinary, so it is not even clear why the then leadership was so excited ...
              2. mat-vey
                mat-vey 13 February 2021 05: 46
                0
                Quote: tihonmarine
                That they didn't run to the Germans

                In those years, there was no practice of putting "traitors" under arms .. National units were recruiting, but the prisoners were not armed.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 13 February 2021 11: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  The national units were recruiting, but the prisoners were not armed.

                  That's right, during WWI, there was no Waffen SS, no Khivi, no police battalions.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 13 February 2021 11: 19
                    0
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    That's right, during WWI, there was no Waffen SS, no Khivi, no police battalions.

                    So the question itself was with a "smell".
                  2. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 13 February 2021 11: 26
                    0
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    So the question itself was with a "smell".

                    It smelled pretty good.
                  3. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 13 February 2021 11: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: tihonmarine
                    It smelled pretty good.

                    And this often happens ..
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 11 February 2021 18: 19
    +1
    Not Bobrobabenko, but Dobrobabin.
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 12 February 2021 04: 42
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    Interestingly, when Russia fought Germany in WWI before the war there were no repressions,

    Is this for sure? And the suppression of peasant riots is not repression? And the shooting of strikes is also not repression? Well, then these "not repressed" under arms, in greatcoats, and corporal punishment, well, yes, "soldiers and dogs are not allowed" is very conducive to the unity of the uprising fighting spirit is a very correct ideological move.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 12 February 2021 07: 30
      +2
      Yes, "soldiers and dogs are prohibited" and "Lena execution" was also. And nevertheless, for some reason, not a single one betrayed his homeland and with weapons in his hands did not join the ranks of the German army, although they had something to be offended at. And the Soviet soldiers, officers and generals, treated kindly by the people's power with free medicine, education, past the pioneers and the Komsomol, and the party too, went! So corporal punishment has nothing to do with it.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 27
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        not a single one betrayed his homeland and with weapons in his hands did not join the ranks of the German army,

        how many deserters were there? From 0,5 to 1,5 million according to various sources? Is it not a "betrayal" to leave the front? And refusal to go into battle is an upsurge of patriotism?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 12 February 2021 09: 30
          +2
          Quote: mat-vey
          not a single one betrayed his homeland and with weapons in his hands did not join the ranks of the German army,

          No need to wag! There is nothing to argue, so do not leave the topic. Do not disgrace yourself. It's about that. The Soviet army was also full of volunteers and deserters. It's about those who fought with weapons in their hands. Is this accessible to your understanding or not?
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 38
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            It's about those who fought with weapons in their hands. Is this accessible to your understanding or not?

            Do you understand that if a person ran away from the front, or simply refused to fight, he is no better? He does not fight with weapons in his hands - do you have anything to “object” to this? And deserters also loot in the rear ..
            1. kalibr
              kalibr 12 February 2021 10: 32
              +1
              Quote: mat-vey
              is he no better?

              No better. He did not kill his own people, he did not burn villages, he was not a collaborationist and was not considered such by the laws of war! Is this foam accessible?
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 12 February 2021 10: 53
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                Is this foam accessible?

                Did you communicate in such a simple and accessible style even when you were a propagandist?
                Quote: mat-vey
                And deserters also loot in the rear ...

                Quote: kalibr
                he was not a collaborationist and was not considered as such under the laws of wartime!

                He was just a traitor who left the front ..
                Quote: kalibr
                For the third time, as the MOST DUMMOUS OF THE DUMM, I repeat: it is about the fact that among the Russian servicemen of the First World War, not a single one went over to the side of the Germans and did not join the ranks of the German army with arms in hand against their fellow citizens.

                Do you mean the Finns and Poles, then at least for Russian subjects?
                1. kalibr
                  kalibr 12 February 2021 11: 23
                  +2
                  For the fourth time: neither the Finns nor the Poles have anything to do with the fact that NOBODY OF THE CAPTIVE OFFICERS AND SERVANTS OF THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL ARMY DID NOT TURN ON THE SIDE OF THE ENEMY AND WILL NOT FIGHT ON HIS SIDE WITH WEAPONS IN HANDS. And of the citizens of the USSR, there were about 1 million of them, according to the most conservative estimates, and among them were generals, Heroes of the Soviet Union and ... a lot of privates. In the past, party members, Komsomol members and pioneers ... As for communication, I always talk to people the way they deserve. Don't jump off the topic ... Then they will talk to you differently. And with the stubborn ... that's just what they say!
                2. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 12 February 2021 12: 52
                  -1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  For the fourth time: neither the Finns nor the Poles have anything to do with the fact that NOBODY OF THE CAPTIVE OFFICERS AND SERVANTS OF THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL ARMY DID NOT TURN ON THE SIDE OF THE ENEMY AND WILL NOT FIGHT ON HIS SIDE WITH WEAPONS IN HANDS.

                  Well then, for one thing, tell me that no one invited them to go, although some later themselves asked for themselves, well, in the same place, the commies should be burned and hung up.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 12 February 2021 09: 35
        +1
        And how many deserters there were in the Red Army in 1941-45. do you know? And the skirmishers?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 41
          0
          Quote: kalibr
          And how many deserters there were in the Red Army in 1941-45. do you know? And the skirmishers?

          And why was the army in 1917 incapable? Tell us about "fraternization" and "bayonets in the ground"?
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 12 February 2021 10: 40
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              For the third time as the DUMBEST OF THE DUMBEST

              The genes of the fourth generation are immediately felt ..
              Quote: kalibr
              The army's ability to go over to the enemy's side has nothing to do with it. Don't leave the topic.

              You as a very wise will understand - to open all the fronts is even more trenchant than the betrayal of individual people .. Why should someone give a weapon (and it was not accepted then) if it is possible to occupy the cities themselves and occupy them.
              Quote: kalibr
              Brain foam available?

              This is just a master class in "conducting a discussion." If you do not know how without insults - do not take it.
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 12 February 2021 11: 26
                0
                This is not an insult, but a statement of a sad fact. I repeat the same thing to you 4 times. Every time you move out to something new and answer a question with a question. They don't do that. First they answer the given one, then they ask their own. Is it available?
              2. mat-vey
                mat-vey 12 February 2021 12: 55
                0
                Quote: kalibr
                This is not an insult, but a statement of a sad fact. I repeat the same thing to you 4 times.

                and I explain to you 4 times that it had its own specifics of that time, and you, as a real professional, begin to compare different times. Once again, what's the difference how he betrayed - the main thing is betrayed ...
                How do you count the Galicians, if in the first world war they fought in the national units at once, and in the second they already formally betrayed?
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. The comment was deleted.
  • Doctor
    Doctor 10 February 2021 11: 33
    +4
    Could the USSR be able to withstand in a future war with Germany without Stalin's violent rapid industrialization of the country ... The answer is obvious. The destinies of millions of people were thrown into the sacrificial cauldron ... It's sad ... Probably there was no other way and choice to speed up the industrialization process.

    There is no direct relationship between the development of a country and the number of people thrown into the sacrificial cauldron.
    Germany did not survive with concentration camps, and the USA and Great Britain celebrated victory without them.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 32
    +1
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Could the USSR in a future war with Germany

    and that in 1930 war with Germany threatened? Are you a supporter of Icebreaker V. Suvorov? bully
  • Sneaky Urus
    Sneaky Urus 11 February 2021 07: 40
    0
    There was a way. The Bolsheviks did not need to take power in 1917. Power was taken, and they did not know what to do with it.
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 11 February 2021 11: 14
    +1
    It shouldn't be so unequivocal: there were many options for the development of the USSR, starting from the late 1920s. And with all due respect to J.V. Stalin, he was not elected the best. Now I understand how difficult it was for a Western European man in the street to understand all this, reading and hearing about the mass repressions in the 1930s in the USSR: on the one hand, it seems like the country is striving for communism and there are real, huge successes, and on the other hand, these are the massive trials of dissenting and former leaders of the revolution and civil war. And the supreme measure could not have been given - this generally gave our justice a bloodthirsty character.
  • Pravodel
    Pravodel 11 February 2021 11: 14
    0
    Probably there was no other way and choice to speed up the industrialization process

    You are absolutely right. It is a pity for those who fell under the millstones of repression, but really, there was no other way to carry out accelerated industrialization, which saved the USSR and made it possible to withstand the collective war of the West against the USSR in 1941-1945.
    The author talks a lot about the victims of repression, but does not talk about the reasons for the transition to a harsh dictatorship, although these reasons are on the surface.
    In the mid-20s - in 1925, at the XIV Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks), a course towards accelerated industrialization was taken. And right there in 1925, the West announced a "golden blockade": it refuses to accept gold as payment for supplies, and demands raw materials and supplies. This continues until the beginning of the 30s, when the gold blockade is supplemented by a raw material - "grain blockade": the West refuses to accept gold and raw materials as payment for loans, but demands payment in bread. As a result, in the USSR, universal collectivization begins, the economic basis of which is the withdrawal of grain resources to pay for Western loans. As a result, peasant uprisings and riots break out in the countryside and in the cities, which the government is forced to brutally suppress, turning to terror. The ideological rationale for terror is the exacerbation of the class struggle as socialism is built.
    The transition to terror against the countryside leads to a split within the party, as a result of which a purge of the party and state apparatus begins, which continues until the end of the 30s.
    Liberals and liberals of all stripes reproach Stalin and the USSR for cruelty and terror, but at the same time they deliberately do not notice, they do not want to notice the historical predetermination of repression and terror in the 30s during the period of industrialization in the USSR, which was caused just Western sanctions against the USSR: the gold and grain blockade... There is no subjunctive mood in history. But in order to avoid this inclination, it is necessary to accept history as it is, and not to ascribe cannibalistic inclinations towards its people to Stalin, the USSR: the actions of Stalin, the USSR during the industrialization of the 20s and 30s were historically determined by the cruel impact of the collective west to the USSR: economic blockade, constant provocations at the border, Basmachi in Central Asia, etc.
    Yes, the regime in the USSR in the 20-30s of the twentieth century. was tough, even cruel, but there was a historical predetermination in this, thanks to which the USSR won the war and was able to build a state, the fruits of which Russia still controls.
    1. boris epstein
      boris epstein 11 February 2021 18: 12
      -1
      "We are 50-100 years behind the leading countries. We need to cover this distance in 20 years. Otherwise we will be crushed." And to Stalin. And he was right. Circumstances dictate solutions.
  • tatra
    tatra 10 February 2021 05: 51
    +6
    Firstly, neither the fact that in the 30s, in 50 and more years later, the enemies of the Soviet regime proved what a huge number of criminals and enemies of their country and people on the territory of the USSR. Secondly, beyond their slander against the USSR and the Soviet people, which they have the only justification for their capture of the USSR in 30 years, they all proved that they are FOR political repression in the Russian Empire, capitalist countries of the world, and that they themselves have every right to carry out political repression.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 10 February 2021 06: 23
      -1
      Do you even understand what you have written?
      Firstly, neither the fact that in the 30s, in 50 and more years later, the enemies of the Soviet regime proved what a huge number of criminals and enemies of their country and people on the territory of the USSR.

      Translate into Russian, please.

      ... FOR political repression in the Russian Empire, capitalist countries of the world, and that they themselves have every right to carry out political repression.

      In the "capitalist countries of the world" ... is it all in a row, or selectively? laughing
      No, I seem to understand that you condemn the political repressions carried out by the tsarist satraps in the Russian Empire. laughing
      1. tatra
        tatra 10 February 2021 06: 31
        +2
        And you do not be spiteful, but try to refute my words.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 10 February 2021 06: 35
          +3
          I'm not spiteful, it's just funny to me. And to refute verbal nonsense is empty occupation. First, learn to express your thoughts clearly, and then demand a refutation.
          That's the case, they write nonsense, and then they also get offended.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 10 February 2021 07: 41
            +8
            Konstantin hi I'll try to translate! repeat
            The enemies of the Communists, taking advantage of the right of repression, defeated the Communists and seized the USSR, first having trained on the capitalist countries of the world. At the present time (30 years), the enemies of the communists continue to carry out political repression! And yet, all of them, without exception, are Enemies of Soviet Power (a new term, you need to remember) belay
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 10 February 2021 07: 46
              +5
              Hi Aleksey! hi
              Hmmm ... Even there is nothing to say, a difficult case. request We ought to find out the number of the ward, send the parcel, we are not animals after all. smile drinks
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 10 February 2021 09: 16
              -5
              Quote: Hunter 2
              And yet, all of them, without exception, are Enemies of Soviet Power (a new term, you need to remember

              Thanks for the translation from the original, into an understandable language, and for the term Enemies of Soviet Power.
      2. Snail N9
        Snail N9 10 February 2021 06: 33
        -2
        "Achievements" based on bones .... well, that is ... Ah! got it! These were not people, but "enemies of the people" for whom there are only two ways - a bullet in the back of the head or into the "camp dust" .. Just like now, call a person a bulk, a liberal, an agent of the State Department, and that's it, like he is not ours as -would, but a "traitor", "enemy" of the rest of the people, "loyal to the authorities" means you can press this person and so on. And it is quite possible to put up against the wall, as here, some of the "power block" are splashing saliva in the topics -type to their wall, you bastards ... -not people ... Well, well ...
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 10 February 2021 06: 39
          0
          Thank you, the picture smiled kindly. smile
          1. Snail N9
            Snail N9 10 February 2021 06: 52
            -3
            Do you like the picture? Well, hold on, then one more:
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 10 February 2021 07: 24
              -1
              It is quite fair to say how many people were burnt in a drunken shop, and it is impossible to count. laughing drinks
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 10 February 2021 09: 21
              -7
              Quote: Snail N9
              Do you like the picture?

              Not bad, but this one?
        2. tatra
          tatra 10 February 2021 06: 45
          +1
          And where does the "tremendous philanthropy" of the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people go outside your anti-Sovietism? Why does it not apply to the Russian people before the October Revolution, or to the people after you captured the republics of the USSR?
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 February 2021 08: 30
          -2
          Quote: Snail N9
          "Achievements" based on bones .... well, that's ... Ah! got it! These were not people, but "enemies of the people" for whom there are only two ways - a bullet in the back of the head or into the "camp dust". Like now-call a person a bully, a liberal, an agent of the State Department, and that's it, like he is not ours, as it were, but a "traitor", "an enemy" of the rest of the people, "loyal to the authorities" which means you can press this person and so on. And to the wall completely you can put-out, like here, some of the "power block" saliva splashing in topics-like to their wall, you bastards ... - not people ... Well, well ...

          False saliva, pulling an owl tearing at the seams on the globe, is sprinkled by those who put on the same level ... people who were illegally destroyed in the 1930s, absolutely disenfranchised, against the government, in the overwhelming majority, and did not speak and ... . of today's metropolitan fat cats / hamsters, cut off from impunity and indulgence of power, ", urinating on the backs of grandfathers, calling the veterans of the Great Patriotic War "dolls with medals, spitting on the law, who did not serve in the army, but have this is ALL right for defense, trial and publicity.

          WHAT would have happened to them, their relatives, friends then, in 193o-1940, even with one smallest micro-disk only about even incomplete approval of the authorities on their part, it is clear, I think, to everyone.

          The topic of the article is completely different.

          Author:
          laid the foundation for the great future of the country and the place of the Soviet Union in the club of great powers throughout a whole historical era.

          There can be no great power, in which many millions of people died of hunger in peacetime - in the center of Europe in the middle of the 20th century (which the power is silent about!), And a third of the harvest goes under the snow and mud, and grain, at the very the world's largest arable land, bought with gold, abroad since 1960s

          Author:
          he understood that the further and more successful advances in solving its problems, suppressing the resistance of opponents, i.e.the circle of its real and potential opponents becomes wider.

          Yeah, and, therefore, with NO successes, the number of supporters is rapidly ... growing belay lol Eh, author, author ...

          to the policy of liquidating the kulaks as a class.

          In January 1930, the Politburo ruled

          "On measures to eliminate kulak farms in areas of continuous collectivization"

          It is important to note that these peasants have NO soviet laws Did NOT violate, and the decisions of the Politburo are a flagrant violation of the Soviet Constitution.
          In spite of her, without trial, 2,6 million peasants were deported. Of them, they sent without trial - a MILLION children - in huts made of poles, in the cold to the North - without court decisions. 80% of those killed in exile are children!

          Author:
          But nothing can justify the tragedies of hundreds of thousands of innocent people caught in the moloch of repression.

          Exactly so, but we are talking about many millions of repressed, let us not forget the absolutely disenfranchised position of the peasants, whom the state imposed ... "tribute" (in the words of Stalin)
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 10 February 2021 10: 39
            -4
            while the decisions of the Politburo are a flagrant violation of the Soviet Constitution

            Only if you travel from 1930 to 1936 by a time machine.
          2. Andrey VOV
            Andrey VOV 10 February 2021 11: 50
            -3
            Lousy about the bath, and Olgovich exaggerates the topic of hunger ... to the place and out of place ...
          3. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 43
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            It is important to note that these peasants did NOT violate ANY laws of the Soviet Union, and the decisions of the Politburo were a flagrant violation of the Soviet Constitution.

            exactly!!! decided to rob and robbed ...
            1. chenia
              chenia 10 February 2021 18: 34
              -3
              Quote: DrEng527
              exactly!!! decided to rob and robbed ...


              I. what? Have you built villas in the Maldives? Or tractor (tank) factories?
              And the peasants even saw a tractor, otherwise they would have plowed with a plow and a horse until the middle of the twentieth century (Olgovich's dream).
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 10 February 2021 21: 02
                +2
                Quote: chenia
                I. what? Have you built villas in the Maldives? Or tractor (tank) factories?

                Tavo, che: not yours - do not open your mouth at someone else's!

                Tractor factories were built all over the world without your "craftsmen" in robbing peasants.

                And Russia built ocean dreadnoughts-battleships, and yours could not master any. And Russia was already mastering tractors even before the VOR - hundreds of tractors were produced in Sormovo and Kolomna.
                Quote: chenia
                And the peasants even saw a tractor, otherwise they would have plowed with a plow and a horse until the middle of the twentieth century (Olgovich's dream).

                There were tractors before the VOR, there would have been in 1930 - under Russia, Russia would have survived. But under Russia, people would not eat ... each other.

                Do you understand the difference?
                1. chenia
                  chenia 11 February 2021 09: 41
                  -3
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Tractor factories were built all over the world


                  But not in Russia.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  hundreds of tractors were produced in Sormovo and Kolomna.


                  Screwdriver assembly.
                  And in the USSR they produced 600 тыс. tractors. And the battleships. all these boxes, equipment and weapons were taken over the hill (and even that would be drowned in the Tsushima Strait.).
                  SOKHA is a symbol of tsarist Russia.

                  Do you understand the difference?
                  1. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 35
                    +3
                    Quote: chenia
                    Do you understand the difference?

                    we understand that you are illiterate in the history of Russia request
                    Quote: chenia
                    And the USSR produced 600 thousand tractors

                    but bought food ... request
                    Quote: chenia
                    equipment and weapons were taken over the hill

                    bullshit - 12dm and 120mm guns are development and production in the Republic of Ingushetia, armor - also, KMU - also local production, Gexler's control system is completely domestic ...
                    alas, you don't know much about the issue .. hi
                    1. chenia
                      chenia 11 February 2021 12: 56
                      -3
                      Quote: DrEng527
                      semi-literate in the history of Russia


                      Immediately noticeable style literate. (Style liberastov- you know nothing .. and soviet propaganda, well, and then on the manual.). Familiar

                      Quote: DrEng527
                      but bought food.


                      Because of the forage. As soon as meat production fell, they began to export grain.
                      The result is twice as much meat, and four times as much milk in the given prices.

                      Quote: DrEng527
                      you don't know much on the matter.


                      But you don’t know a damn thing.
                      The squalor that RI was at the beginning of the twentieth century is still to be looked for. Two wars - with Japan and WWI showed the level of RI in the world (the army is the main sphere of application of forces and means in RI).
                      And everything is mediocre about .....
              2. DrEng527
                DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 32
                +3
                Quote: chenia
                And the peasants even saw a tractor, otherwise they would have a plow and a horse until the middle of the twentieth century

                do you check out or go? yield fell and reached the RI level only by the end of the 50s request
                1. chenia
                  chenia 11 February 2021 13: 08
                  -2
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  yield fell and reached the RI level only by the end of the 50s


                  In 1940, the production of grain and other food products surpassed the indicators of RI ((with Poland and Finland). At the same time, the population became urban by a third. But the main thing was industrialization. And our industry surpassed the German and its satellites.,
                  Well?
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  you checkered or go?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 February 2021 13: 20
                    +2
                    Quote: chenia
                    In 1940, the production of grain and other food products surpassed the indicators of RI

                    Nonsense: see Report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR 1955
                    1. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 11 February 2021 13: 27
                      -1
                      Carry nonsense

                      Does the report somehow comment on the increase in the volume of agricultural procurement several times over 10 years (from 1929 to 1939)?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 February 2021 13: 39
                        +2
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Does the report somehow comment on the increase in the volume of agricultural procurement several times over 10 years (from 1929 to 1939)?

                        of course: production per capita has decreased
                      2. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 11 February 2021 14: 57
                        -1
                        of course

                        Explain the logic - production has become lessbut collect steel more, and at times. Got it out of the air?
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 February 2021 09: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        Explain the logic - production has become smaller, but they have begun to collect more, and at times. Got it out of the air?

                        1. They began to produce more (due to an increase in arable land, the yield is lower than RI)), but there are also more people.

                        2. What ... times, what kind of BASH?
                      4. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 12 February 2021 10: 29
                        -1
                        The sown area increased from 92,2 in 1928/29 to 110,5 million hectares in 1940/1941, the volume of state purchases / procurements during the same period from 10,8 to 41,6 million tons
                        https://istmat.info/node/21358
                      5. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 February 2021 11: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: strannik1985
                        The sown area increased from 92,2 in 1928/29 to 110,5 million hectares in 1940/1941, the volume of state purchases / procurements during the same period from 10,8 to 41,6 million tons

                        Grain picking 1928 - 73 million, сбор 1939/40 ... 73 million tons.
                        https://istmat.info/node/21358

                        The fact that they began to SELECT more has nothing to do with PRODUCTION.
                      6. strannik1985
                        strannik1985 12 February 2021 12: 21
                        -2
                        The fact that more began to take away

                        It also has the most direct - the number of the population has increased, since 1933 the livestock population has begun to grow, payments for workdays have increased, the card system has been abolished - this is impossible without an increase in labor productivity. But the accuracy of statistics before 1933-1934 is a big question request
                      7. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 15 February 2021 13: 43
                        0
                        https://istmat.info/node/21358

                        Andrey, and you, in addition to the table at the beginning of the article, the article itself by A.V. Bashkin. read?
                        He, as it were, is trying to show that for the sake of the political situation in the statistics of the 50s, data calculated using two different methods (and not one) were collected in one table of gross collection in order to show the lack of success in agriculture. If we lead to one methodology, then in 1939/40 - 100,9 million tons, not 73.
                        Conclusion at the end of the article.
                        Why were these years "cut off"? Apparently the data of the 30s did not fit into the "perestroika" comrade. Khrushchev, such as the liquidation of household plots, the liquidation of MTS, and the massive transformation of collective farms into state farms. And against the background of the failure of agricultural production under his "wise leadership", these data would look even more impressive. So we had to “repress the wrong statistics” by recalculating the gross collection of these very years based on the realities of the “current moment”.
        4. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 13: 29
          +2
          Quote: chenia
          In 1940, the production of grain and other food products exceeded the indicators of RI (

          it's funny ... bully I'm talking about yields, and you about Soviet bullshit ...
          Quote: chenia
          At the same time, the population became urban by a third.

          is this an achievement?
          Quote: chenia
          And our industry has surpassed the German and its satellites ...

          aha, so we bought machines and towers for battleships from Germany ... wink
          you are a classic pupil of Agitprop, just think about why we received weapons under the Lend-Lease once the industry had such a thing ... wink
          1. chenia
            chenia 11 February 2021 14: 12
            -1
            Quote: DrEng527
            you are a classic pupil of Agitprop, just think about why we received weapons under the Lend-Lease once the industry had such a thing ...


            In the liberoid Agitprom, after all, it is not recorded that at the time of the Battle of Kursk we received only 6% of the total on LL. (and 26% for the war). Britain received in May 1943. -40% LL, fought with varying success with 4,5 gthe German divisions.
            And if the influence of LL is the law, then why is the law not fulfilled by the British (well, not in the horse feed).
            And the Battle of Kursk is the crunch of the Wehrmacht ridge.

            After the war, we did not receive LL, on the contrary, the Cold War.
            And!
            The atomic project and atomic energy, space, jet aircraft, radio engineering, computer technology (even though cybernetics was a corrupt girl), a breakthrough in industry and science.
            NOT?
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 14: 46
              +2
              Quote: chenia
              In the liberoid Agitprom

              decided to get out of hand - in vain ... bully
              Quote: chenia
              that at the time of the Battle of Kursk

              maybe remember that the first British tanks were already at war near Moscow? At the same time, a stupid question arises - where were the Soviet tanks given, as many as 25 were made before the war? request
              Quote: chenia
              Britain received in May 1943. -40% LL, fought with varying degrees of success with 4,5 German divisions.

              She fought with the entire German fleet, their air force was alone for almost a year! While we had a Treaty of Friendship and Border with Hitler ... request By the way, who is to blame for the collapse of the Western Front in 1940? In 1914 IN2 did not allow this ...
              Quote: chenia
              The atomic project and atomic energy, space, jet aircraft, radio engineering, computer technology (even though cybernetics was a corrupt girl), a breakthrough in industry and science.
              NOT?

              do not tell me where this great USSR and why no one defended him in December 1991? hi
            2. chenia
              chenia 11 February 2021 15: 13
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              decided to get out of hand - in vain.


              Young man don't have to worry.

              Quote: DrEng527
              maybe remember that the first British tanks were already at war near Moscow?


              A couple dozen. Well, a hundred. So what?

              .
              Quote: DrEng527
              where were the Soviet tanks given


              They basically pushed the Germans back near Moscow.


              Quote: DrEng527
              She fought with the entire German fleet, their air force was alone for almost a year!


              What are you talking about?
              And Britain Honduras?
              Yes, the entire fleet of Germany is a team of fishermen compared to the brits.
              And the Britons, something did not allow the Germans.
              Oh well done.

              And the Air Force? Young man, I'll tell you this, a German near Moscow was two dozen kilometers away.
              And the capital did not know much about the actions of the bomber aviation. Good air defense completely removed the threat (individual planes broke through.) The same thing happened near Leningrad.
              And where there was no air defense, then Stalingrad ..

              And Britain (okay, no ground forces). but the most technically rich troops (aviation, navy) were. And not worse, but better.

              And poor Gondu ... well, in the sense, Great Britain survived.
              URYA ... !!!!!

              Quote: DrEng527
              By the way, who is to blame for the collapse of the Western Front in 1940?


              Is it really Stalin ?.
              The lads have been preparing for war for 8 months (and I am a former military man) And .. (laughs off-screen.)

              Quote: DrEng527
              where is this great USSR


              Believe it or not, he still defends Russia.
              If it were not for those achievements, the country would have been plundered long ago (foreign children, they were already showing that the wealth of Russia is a world heritage).
              Further, guess yourself (if possible).
            3. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 15: 30
              +3
              Quote: chenia
              Young man don't have to worry.

              alas, far from the same ... repeat
              Quote: chenia
              A couple dozen. Well, a hundred. So what?

              but the fact that a hundred Matilda was a force near Moscow, when the rate was on the T-60 and the Wehrmacht was exhaling ... the last straw ... I note that the tankers still had to be trained, the units had to be formed, so the equipment came from England still autumn .....
              Quote: chenia
              They basically pushed the Germans back near Moscow.

              see above.
              Quote: chenia
              What are you talking about?
              And Britain Honduras?

              as I understand it from your lack of arguments? bully
              Quote: chenia
              Yes, the entire fleet of Germany is a team of fishermen compared to the brits.

              We can recall the death of Hood, raids of raiders, and most importantly the loss of tonnage of allied ships from submarines ...
              Quote: chenia
              Boy, I'll tell you so g

              Rudeness speaks of your bad upbringing, no more ... request
              Quote: chenia
              , well, in the sense of the UK survived.

              Let me remind you that in 1940 the Germans lost 2500 aircraft in the battle for England ... request
              Quote: chenia
              Is it really Stalin ?.

              Exactly! it was his "wise" policy that led to terrible losses for the USSR in the war ... hi
              Quote: chenia
              (and I am in the past a military man)

              that's noticeable... bully
              Quote: chenia
              Believe it or not, he still defends Russia.

              I'm sad with you, you went through the collapse of the USSR and did not understand anything ... request
            4. chenia
              chenia 11 February 2021 16: 23
              -1
              [quote = DrEng527] but the fact that a hundred Matilda was a force near Moscow, when the rate was on the T-60 and the Wehrmacht was exhaling ... [/ quote]

              Joke.
              How did you become a millionaire?
              Bought two apples for two cents, washed and sold for four. Bought four apples, washed, sold for eight ...
              Wife: - And then he married me and my mother-in-law gave a million.
              (Two dozen divisions (full complement with weapons), which have undergone combat coordination from the Far East.)
              And of course washed apples .. (Matilda).

              [quote = DrEng527] as I understand it from your lack of arguments? [/ quote]

              Well, in a sense, one of the most powerful economies in the world could not oppose anything to the German (at the same time 8 months after the declaration of war. Without hostilities).
              I just know what level of BG you can reach, in a much shorter period. And the Brit and Franks did it like that. Your surprise at my emphasis on this shows your level.
              Germany in 1944 was bombed by almost two orders of magnitude more. AND.
              The output of military products in 1944 was the highest.
              And Vietnam? Th do you think you can win a war only by bombing?

              [quote = DrEng527] Rudeness speaks about your bad [/ quote]

              Well, you are watching yourself here (I am 66 years old) and judging by the answers (level) for me you are really a young man. And some of your statements are shown by not knowing the essence of the issue (superficially, cheap propaganda techniques).

              [quote = DrEng527] Exactly! it was his "wise" policy that led to terrible losses of the USSR in the war .. [/ quote]

              In 1940?
              Why, you had to get involved with Britons and Franks?
              Not, if those years, another fought, Stalin would have gone to the Germans (definitely).

              And the "wise" policy of the British (especially) and the Franks (those not very English Channel was not with the Germans), when two states disappeared and redrawing the borders became the rule. you are impressed. And the revived Reich.
              Isn't this the reason for the war?

              [quote = DrEng527] it is noticeable [/ quote]

              That's right!
              My education (two higher education) and convictions do not allow carrying absolute stupidity, with a smart expression on my face. [
              quote = DrEng527] and did not understand anything .. [/ quote]

              Yes, but I talked to the giant of thought who knew the truth and the depth of the meaning of being.
            5. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 17: 15
              +2
              Quote: chenia
              I just know what level of BG you can reach, in a much shorter period.

              what war you won?
              Quote: chenia
              In 1940?
              Why, you had to get involved with Britons and Franks?

              The IVS was the same "strategist" ... wink
              Quote: chenia
              Isn't this the reason for the war?

              wars were and will be, the question is what losses request compare for Russia 1 and 2 MB, and for England ...
              Quote: chenia
              My education (two degrees) and beliefs do not allow me to carry absolute stupidity, with a smart expression on my face

              1) the second degree is received due to the absence of the first ... but it does not help .. bully
              2) and you are talking nonsense, millet think. write smart ... wink
              Quote: chenia
              Yes, but talked to the giant of thought who knew the truth and the depth of the meaning of life

              and you don't get sick ...
            6. chenia
              chenia 11 February 2021 18: 06
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              what war you won?


              Not started.

              Quote: DrEng527
              IVS was the same "strategist


              I could quote Churchill's words on this situation, but this is not an argument for you.


              Quote: DrEng527
              compare for Russia 1 and 2 MB, and for England ...


              Believe it or not, France has even less. And for "successes" in the war, the triumphant was thrown out of the prime minister's chair. Why would?

              Quote: DrEng527
              second higher education

              Well, not everyone is given.
              And my level of education and knowledge does not allow, since you fantasize and gush.
              You are allowed. Continue to spread stupidity to the masses.
              Perhaps will be counted.

              You are stray, young here on the forum. And that nonsense that you are talking about has long been discussed, forgotten and trampled upon.
              If you want to be a laughing stock, go ahead.
              Success in this field, you have a great future.
            7. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 18: 13
              +2
              Quote: chenia
              And for "successes" in the war, the triumphant was thrown out of the prime minister's chair. Why would?

              people were tired, but Churchill did his duty ... I will note that the IVS did not arrange elections after the Second World War, why?
              Quote: chenia
              Well, not everyone is given.

              try to learn to understand the text, especially after the 2nd higher ... bully
              Quote: chenia
              You are here on the forum stray

              switched to fenya?
              Quote: chenia
              If you want to be a laughing stock, go ahead.

              funny to be afraid of notorious people ... request funny how much you said about yourself ... bully
              Quote: chenia
              Not started.

              the USSR was gone, but the oath was taken, the allowance was received ... wink
            8. chenia
              chenia 11 February 2021 19: 02
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              but Churchill did his duty.


              On the collapse of the British Empire. Definitely.
              Well, Stalin did not have the English Channel.
              Quote: DrEng527


              try to learn to understand the text,

              Here I am about that too. There is one professional subtlety. too lazy to explain.

              Quote: DrEng527
              switched to fenya?


              And who is it?

              Quote: DrEng527
              funny people to be afraid


              No problem. Normal people are afraid to be funny and pathetic.
              You have a different approach.
              Continue, well, if it's a joy to be a jester.

              Quote: DrEng527
              then the USSR is gone,

              I already wrote. Russia is holding on thanks to the Soviet backlog. We have no ideological obstacles with the West. Well.

              What, it’s not ideology that matters?
            9. DrEng527
              DrEng527 12 February 2021 11: 14
              +1
              Quote: chenia
              Well, Stalin did not have the English Channel.

              but there were 25 tanks and the line of Stalin and Molotov ... request
              Quote: chenia
              On the collapse of the British Empire. Definitely.

              it was an objective process, it was the last one left ...
              Quote: chenia
              And who is it?

              hmm, the level of development has dropped ... hi
              Quote: chenia
              Normal people are afraid to be funny and pathetic.

              you have a strange understanding of the norm bully people are in different situations ...
              Quote: chenia
              well, if it's a joy to be a jester.

              you have a bad general erudition - a jester is a profession, being funny is a situation ... you are funny in your moralizing ... bully
              Quote: chenia
              Russia is holding on thanks to the Soviet backlog

              you are funny, life and history are indivisible - the USSR is not possible without RI ...
              Quote: chenia
              What, it’s not ideology that matters?

              you don’t know the commonplace? Napoleon had ideological differences with IA1? Or Churchill made an alliance with the USSR in 1941 because was a communist? Have read the Short Course and Marxism ... bully
            10. chenia
              chenia 12 February 2021 13: 36
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              but there were 25 tanks and the line of Stalin and Molotov ..


              Well, do not use information from Rezun. 25 thousand are all tanks produced in the USSR.
              Half of them are buildings. When I am. noted that it was a pity that the T-26 had not been converted into an armored personnel carrier (similar to the M-113). Longitudinal scheme (engine, transmission, front-wheel drive) to build up the sides is very simple. But Comrade ALEXEY RA popularly explained (with documents) the absence of a basis for such a thing. The lack of spare parts, a repair base, turned tanks with a small resource into hulls.
              So. that we can safely say about half of the tank fleet.
              But the trouble is. that not equipment and weapons (it was in abundance at the beginning of the war).
              But the organizational measures of the People's Commissariat and the General Staff undermined the already low combat readiness of the troops (especially armored vehicles). I think we will create structures. and then we will polish it, and the Germans are not ready for war in 1941 (which is generally fair and true). And they must grind in the fall of 1941.

              Quote: DrEng527
              hmm, the level of development has dropped ...


              The level of degradation has increased.

              Quote: DrEng527
              you have a bad general erudition - a jester is a profession, being funny is a situation ... you are funny in your moralizing ..


              Free will, but tastes differ. You like to mow under a jester with high erudition, no one is bondage.
              Well, we'll take it into account.

              Quote: DrEng527
              you are funny, life and history are indivisible - the USSR is not possible without RI ...


              And you are funny. Nobody rejects the healthy legacy of the Republic of Ingushetia, but in terms of strength and power, except for the territory and population and military traditions, nothing else allowed us to withstand the coming war (and it would have been, in any case).
              This was created in the USSR and largely thanks to Stalin.


              Quote: DrEng527
              you don’t know the commonplace? Napoleon had ideological differences with the IA


              And you do not understand the meaning of what has been said (you do not reject, but confirm).
              A war by all means with Russia, the West will always be waged, regardless of the system and ideology. And the means of protection created in the USSR (in contrast to the RI) make it possible not to transfer it to the hot phase.
            11. DrEng527
              DrEng527 12 February 2021 13: 58
              +1
              Quote: chenia
              Half of them are buildings.

              this is a lie - see Fedorenko's note - in 41, more than 18 are ready ...
              Quote: chenia
              that the T-26 was not remade

              compare it with the T-1 of the Germans ... I note that all the T-1s were taken into account by Agitprop ... bully
              Quote: chenia
              The lack of spare parts, a repair base, turned tanks with a small resource into hulls.

              do you think this is a good reason? This is mismanagement ...
              Quote: chenia
              But the organizational measures of the People's Commissariat and the General Staff undermined the already low combat readiness of the troops (especially armored vehicles).

              absolutely agree, but early. The General Staff of the Red Army at that time is now a hero, a marshal of victory ... request
              Quote: chenia
              Well, we'll take it into account.

              you can record or write an opera ...
              Quote: chenia
              nothing else allowed to withstand the coming war

              they somehow lost the equipment in the first couple of months, as well as the regular army, but returned to traditions ... hi
              Quote: chenia
              This was created in the USSR and largely thanks to Stalin.

              Seriously? It was the IVS that created the conditions under which the USSR started a war against the coalition request At least the participation of Finland and Romania in 1941 is his direct merit, and this is 1 million troops and 1000 km of the front ... In addition, the IVS did not understand the main thing - the importance of BP troops! And he absolutized military equipment according to the 1st criterion, as is typical of amateurs ... request
              Quote: chenia
              And the means of protection created in the USSR (in contrast to the RI) make it possible not to transfer it into the hot phase.

              1) Are you talking about nuclear weapons? RI and without it took both Paris and Berlin ...
              2) I would like to note that during the time of the Republic of Ingushetia, like that, Germany fought on 2 fronts and the Western one was the main one ... is the difference in approaches available?
              Quote: chenia
              And you do not understand the meaning of what was said (

              maybe you express your thoughts like this? bully
            12. chenia
              chenia 12 February 2021 15: 28
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              this is a lie - see Fedorenko's note - in 41, more than 18 are ready for action ..


              You, as an amateur, delight me. As Popandopulo said - "come. I'll draw you some more."
              I would like to know which of the responsible persons would send up real information.
              My equipment burned out (it was like that). I wrote it off two years later. And before that, she had been overhauled. and hit 20 thousand km (virtually).
              In!
              Moreover, the division (i.e., the command) knew.

              And you read the notes on the state of the equipment (even in elite formations), when checking the level of the main command and the General Staff. (Let's be honest, even there they try not to "drown" the commander too much.

              Quote: DrEng527
              do you think this is a good reason? This is mismanagement ...

              Well, the transition to another base, gobbled up all the resources. and did the right thing.

              Quote: DrEng527
              Seriously? It was the IVS that created the conditions under which the USSR started the war against the coalition.At least the participation of Finland and Romania in 1941 is his direct merit, and this is 1 million troops and 1000 km of the front ...


              So it seems. The Finns wouldn't have slept. And nobody recognized Bessarabia as Romania.
              So that the torpedo is past.

              Quote: DrEng527
              In addition, the IVS did not understand the main thing - the importance of the BP troops!


              ???? Well, this is sheer stupidity (well, where do you get this information?).
              And this is not his business. And the fact that they pressed Meretsky correctly. Zhukov was also needed.
              Here are the main culprits (+ Tymoshenko). According to the sequence of activities that they carried out. And led to the disaster.
              But I will try to justify them. According to the results and conclusions, the Germans in 1941 were not ready for war with the USSR (and this is true, because under the most favorable conditions for them, it didn't work out).
              And once in 1941 they don't attack, it is possible to carry out an acherenous reorganization (and this is personnel chaos. And a complete breakdown of the BP. And already in the fall, the planned measures for polishing the formations (of the first stage). A special "defeat" of the BTV.
              And Stalin has nothing to do with it.

              Quote: DrEng527
              Are you talking about nuclear weapons? RI and without it took both Paris and Berlin.


              And without industrialization, I would have surrendered the territory to the Urals. I have already mentioned. yes and you confirmed. that Russia (regardless of ideology, the main target. (Now, by the way, too).

              Quote: DrEng527
              that at the time of the RI, like that, Germany fought on 2 fronts and the West was the main one ... is the difference in approaches available?


              Germany was raised and strengthened in the Nazi version, what would be at war with it? Are you definitely not a schoolboy?
              Yes, the march east must be controlled. Germany and Poland are united to carry chestnuts for Britain and France. But Hitler was not satisfied with the prospect of having the USSR in front of the front, and Poland (with its ambitions) on the flanks. and in the rear of France and Britain.

              And he started his game.
            13. DrEng527
              DrEng527 13 February 2021 11: 46
              +2
              Quote: chenia
              You, as an amateur, delight me.

              I'm modest, you can do it without podlizatsiya ... bully By the way, what rank do you have, did you graduate from BMV Academy?
              Quote: chenia
              which of the responsible persons would send up real information.

              it is the task of the manager to create such a system! I manage a little myself and I know that it's not easy ... request however, this is not an excuse for a mess!
              Quote: chenia
              Well, the transition to another base, gobbled up all the resources. and did the right thing.

              you have a strange "logic", based on it, the Red Army spat on 500 pieces. T-28, which were better than the T-4 of the Germans ... request Everything is popular, but the leadership of the USSR / Red Army has no responsibility ...
              Quote: chenia
              The Finns wouldn't have slept.

              Seriously? they did not climb in 41 before our bombing ... and without a war in 40 they simply have no reason to change course ... they would behave like Swedes
              Quote: chenia
              And nobody recognized Bessarabia as Romania.

              It is not necessary to admit, it is not necessary to rally enemies before the decisive battle ... the basics of strategy, but this is not available to you and the IVS ... bully
              Quote: chenia
              So that the torpedo is past.

              By no means, under the armored belt and in the area of ​​the CMU hi
              Quote: chenia
              where do you get this information?).

              from vile reality! BP assumes an increase in the number of pilots, and it was reduced ... also with tankers, etc.
              Quote: chenia
              According to the results and conclusions, the Germans in 1941 were not ready for war with the USSR

              You have to proceed not from your wishes, but from reality ... request The Germans were not at all ready for WW2, but they started and successfully! By the 41st, thanks to a wise policy, the IVS controlled the whole of Western Europe ...
              Quote: chenia
              And Stalin has nothing to do with it.

              those. didn't he appoint these fools to leadership positions and sanction their actions? bully Somehow in RYAV and WW1, the Bolsheviks hung everything on the tsar ...
              Quote: chenia
              And without industrialization, I would have surrendered the territory to the Urals.

              you are wrong! Stalin's industrialization has devoured terrible funds! I would like to note that in 1909-14 the development of Ingushetia proceeded at a faster pace and without a decrease in the level of consumption ... request In addition, due to collectivization during the Second World War, the GW flared up again, which sharply increased the losses ...
              Quote: chenia
              that Russia (regardless of ideology, the main target.

              The art of diplomacy is to quarrel your enemies, not unite them ... see how the Republic of Ingushetia entered the 1st war (as part of the Entente) and the USSR in WW2 - having against itself most of Europe ...
              Quote: chenia
              Germany was raised and strengthened in the Nazi version, what would be at war with it?

              the same people strengthened the USSR at the same time! To knock their heads together and finish off both, as well as the British Empire ... everything is on the surface, but the Bolsheviks wanted a World Revolution ...
              Quote: chenia
              Are you definitely not a schoolboy?

              against my background, you are an illiterate amateur ... wink
              Quote: chenia
              And he started his game.

              It was played from overseas ...
              Quote: chenia
              carry chestnuts for Britain and France

              you are funny ... hi
            14. chenia
              chenia 13 February 2021 16: 20
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              it is possible without podlizirovanie.


              Statement of fact.

              Quote: DrEng527
              by the way, what rank do you have,


              You can't reach it. Although, if you are from Ukraine, then there is the supreme Ch udak, and the rest are with your level. So they live shitty, but not boring.

              Quote: DrEng527
              however, this is not an excuse for a mess!


              They thought to renovate the hut (and at once in all corners, but here the wedding with uninvited guests.
              Another thing was the repair was necessary differently with the option -And suddenly. We thought we would slip through (and stalling with the invitation). We didn’t slip by. And the guests for the wedding are not quite dressed and without an accordion.

              Quote: DrEng527
              before our bombing did not climb.

              That's when they gave them in the teeth, then they did not climb.

              And Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary, Bulgaria (those in Yugoslavia were replacing the Wehrmacht, freeing divisions for the Eastern Front) and a bunch of other things that we did not touch with a finger ?. (means that something in the conservatory).

              Quote: DrEng527
              those. he didn't appoint these fools to leadership positions


              So they, for the most part, outplayed the Germans in operational and operational tactical terms. Yes! Since 1943, the Nemchura kept everything on tactics (Hans - platoon commander, Kurt-rotny, Helmut-battalion commander will stretch everything) ..

              Quote: DrEng527
              I would like to note that in 1909-14 the development of Ingushetia proceeded at a faster pace and without a decrease in the level of consumption.

              I readily believe certain segments of the population.

              Quote: DrEng527
              and the USSR in WW2 - having against itself most of Europe ...


              Are these the allies who stood up for Czechoslovakia and Poland?
              But Stalin did. that Europe would be looking for a union. and with a bow (at the same time he returned the land, pushed the boundaries). But the fact that they managed to crumble in three weeks (the Germans then ran after the one who would sign the surrender for a couple of weeks) Stalin definitely could not foresee. Will the two most powerful countries in Europe (and Poland intervene earlier) and will fall apart? And 8 months after the declaration of war? Incomprehensible.

              Quote: DrEng527
              but the Bolsheviks wanted a World Revolution ...


              Not in a hurry, on occasion -YES (Spain- well, it's the locals who made porridge). And so they went about their business. We prepared by understanding. that they won't give you a quiet life.

              Quote: DrEng527
              against my background you

              What a background, the shadows are not even visible.

              Quote: DrEng527
              It was played from overseas ...


              Yes, the cowboys were offended that they were not allowed to the winners' feast (after WWI). But in the game, France and Britain had all the trump cards. They could swat Hitler (until 1938) with one click, like a bug. And even in 1939 it was already harder.

              Quote: DrEng527
              you are funny ..


              I guess it's yes! Trying to teach do ... just spoil.
            15. DrEng527
              DrEng527 14 February 2021 15: 09
              +1
              Quote: chenia
              That's when they gave them in the teeth, then they did not climb.

              at the cost of the blockade of Leningrad? not expensive?
              Quote: chenia
              and a bunch of others,

              in total, this is a trifle against the background of sounded ...
              Quote: chenia
              This is how they mostly outplayed the Germans.

              is this Tymoshenko, Zhukov, Pavlov, Kirponos? yes, after 41g, they are either in the grave or in secondary positions, except for the GKZH, which further broke firewood ...
              Quote: chenia
              certain segments of the population.

              no, country, economy, education, etc.
              Quote: chenia
              about the fact that they managed to crumble in three weeks

              hmm, did you study the beginning of WW1? I recommend, maybe you will understand ... by the way, negotiating with the Bolsheviks after the Brest Peace is not very ...
              Quote: chenia
              We prepared by understanding. that they won't give you a quiet life.

              and that's why they kept the Comintern?
              Quote: chenia
              Trying to teach do ... just spoil.

              how are you about yourself then ... bully generally true, you don't know the strategy, you live in soviet coordinates ...
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 10 February 2021 06: 50
    +3
    The members of the CPSU raised enemies within the CPSU who advocate political repression in the Russian empire. I understand that smile
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 10 February 2021 07: 29
      +3
      I got about the same impression, but Madame believes that we misunderstood her. Although it is very difficult to understand anything from her writings. All this looks more like the report of "radio operator Kat" to the Center, so that the enemies would not guess. laughing
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 39
    +3
    Quote: tatra
    enemies of Soviet power have proved what a huge number of criminals and enemies of their country and people on the territory of the USSR

    where did so many of them come from? Maybe what was wrong at the conservatory?
  • svp67
    svp67 10 February 2021 06: 01
    +4
    What was Stalin guided by during the repressions in the 30s
    The desire to put an end to "partisanship" and to put into practice the principle of "democratic centralism" throughout the country
  • Far B
    Far B 10 February 2021 06: 07
    +3
    But nothing can justify the tragedies of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who fell into the molokh of repression.
    It’s just interesting - if we now start to use the law as it should be used - how many hundreds of thousands of officials, security officials, bourgeoisie and other "connoisseurs" of the capitalist system will go to cut woods across the Arctic Circle? With full legal reason! Also, panimaish, they will fall into the "moloch of repression".
    The article seems to be pro-Stalinist, but full of numerous "fabricated cases", "allegedly guilty" and so on. The repressions of the 30s were directed not only against former comrades-in-arms and then opponents of Stalin like Kamenev-Zinoviev-Bukharin. These had to be removed, if only because some of them directly promoted petty-bourgeois ideas, and someone was a simple opportunist and at any moment could defect to another camp. At the same time, all these Kamenev-Zinoviev-Bukharins were famous people, and from old memory they listened to them in the party (although the Kamenev-Bukharins themselves were already expelled from the party). That is, they retained a certain weight, and in the conditions of the impending war, leaving them alive meant creating a fifth column with their own hands. To what extent the cases against these figures were "fabricated" is an open question: even in Stalin's time the whole truth was hardly recorded, in the post-Stalin period Nikitka certainly tried to remake his mother story in the right way.
    The main blow of the repression was directed against the so-called. "Red nobility" - those very "heroes of the revolution", semi-literate peasants who, in principle, had nothing to do with Marxism-Leninism, because they simply could not master it. On the wave of the revolution, they reached some heights - and felt like new masters of life. They began to create obscenities and abuse. They were joined by the "adherent" - those who had already joined the party "on the call", but did not share the communist ideology (opportunists). Plus all sorts of saboteurs and deversants, who also existed - and they simply could not but exist in practically the only proletarian state, surrounded by a ring of foreign class countries, moreover flooded with political emigrants (native speakers of the Russian language who did not have a special love for Bolshevism - hothouse conditions for enemy intelligence). So they were cleaned out. Innocent people also fell under the general batch (at such and such a scale), but the cleaning was, nevertheless, very successful
    As for the repressions in the army, Tukhachevsky got what he deserved - four days after the arrest, with his own beautiful handwriting and an unwavering hand, he wrote a puffy confession, there was no smell of torture there. Uborevich shot himself before they even came to him - because "Rafik is not guilty"? It was not easy in the army then, as well as throughout the country. Blucher - he made a mess in the Far East, which resulted in the hardest battles on Khasan, where Blucher himself appeared only on the third day. For this he followed Tukhachevsky. True, it never came to execution in his case.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 10 February 2021 06: 55
      0
      They also destroyed the Russian peasantry, disaccustomed people to love their work, I remember how they worked both in factories and in the countryside in the USSR, if only the working time was over.
      1. Far B
        Far B 10 February 2021 07: 02
        -2
        I remember how they worked both in factories and in the countryside in the USSR, if only the working time passed
        Yeah, they worked so badly that in terms of the quantity (in many respects and quality) of the products manufactured, modern Russia has not yet reached those indicators. Damned scoop ...
        1. Pessimist22
          Pessimist22 10 February 2021 08: 32
          -3
          Well, tell me why the USSR bought wheat and potatoes from the bourgeoisie? And now Russia is the largest exporter of wheat.
          1. Far B
            Far B 10 February 2021 08: 51
            -3
            Well, tell me why the USSR bought wheat and potatoes from the bourgeoisie?
            Because the varieties of wheat used for bakery products grow badly in our country. We exported fodder varieties.
            And now Russia is the largest exporter of wheat
            Yeah. Again - what varieties? Again, what proportion of the grown grain remained in the USSR and went to feed livestock (including cattle), and what proportion remains in modern Russia, where large-scale livestock farming has practically been destroyed?
            Well, tired, right word. This topic has already been oversized. If you compare the acreage then and now, everything will become much clearer.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 45
              +3
              Quote: Dalny V
              and went to feed livestock (

              and now 500 tons of meat are exported wink
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 10 February 2021 09: 04
          +2
          Yeah, they worked so badly that in terms of the quantity (in many respects and quality) of the products manufactured, modern Russia has not yet reached those indicators. Damned scoop ...

          Yes, really, it's not for you to pee on the Internet. You would be driven into those conditions - I would look at your enthusiasm. And my mother told me how before the war and during the war she worked and in what conditions. Your enthusiastic cries only sound good from the outside.
          1. Far B
            Far B 10 February 2021 09: 10
            -3
            crap
            so far only you are emitting. Are you sure I haven't had to work in tough conditions? Day and night? Where such confidence?
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 10 February 2021 09: 20
              -3
              so far only you are emitting. Are you sure I haven't had to work in tough conditions? Day and night? Where such confidence?

              because those who knew their value by themselves will not bawl about "heroic achievements".
              so it is about repression. You can be seen as a descendant of guards, so you "approve" the extermination of millions of innocent people in order to eliminate potential political opposition. The funny thing is that now the same 37 year, 9/10 of people like you would go to cut down the forest at best. And at worst, they would fill up the execution pits. Because the molokh of repressions was extremely unscrupulous - he ate both his own and not his own
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Ka-52
                  Ka-52 10 February 2021 09: 36
                  -5
                  Py.Sy. You will poke your wife.

                  you do not deserve to be called "you".
                  I am not bawling, but stating a fact.

                  Precisely what you bawl. How can you compare "then" and "now"? Then it is a powerful ideology against the background of extremely low labor conditions. And all this is supported by a tough repressive-coercive apparatus. And now - I want to work, I want not to work. I want to send everyone away and write in tyrnetika how everything is bad and everything is bad. Didn't do anything for development? It doesn't matter, you can still tell everyone how to develop, how to build, how to fight. Beauty!
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 10 February 2021 09: 33
        -6
        Quote: Pessimist22
        I remember how they worked both in factories and in the countryside in the USSR, if only the working time had passed.

        And these people, it turns out, "at the behest of a pike" created nuclear weapons, and launched the first satellite of the Earth and fed the country.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 46
          +2
          Quote: tihonmarine
          and fed the country.

          by purchasing food for gold? bully
    2. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 44
      +2
      Quote: Dalny V
      So they were cleaned out.

      the revolution devoured its children ... bully
  • tasha
    tasha 10 February 2021 06: 08
    -1
    A very good article. Thank.
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 10 February 2021 12: 06
      -1
      I do not consider myself a Stalinist, but I did not like it: in fact, a rehash of Solzhenitsyn
  • rocket757
    rocket757 10 February 2021 06: 11
    0
    But nothing can justify the tragedies of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who fell into the molokh of repression.

    Well, well, nothing is worth a tear shed by a child !!!
    THE AUTHOR ... I really want to send, but I HAVE to just remind people like him that in real life, at the turning points of history, at the moments of the formation of states and other big events, PEACEFULLY, WITHOUT SACRIFICES !!! The larger the event, the more victims ...
    Stalin, with his associates, with the support of most of our people, CREATED A GREAT COUNTRY ..... EVERYTHING, then you can not listen to anyone.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 07: 13
      +2
      We can, Victor, all remember the "liberal repressions" that took place before our eyes in the 90s. It was anonymous class repression. Because those who "did not fit into the market" were ruthlessly repressed. And the human, demographic, millions of damage to the country is commensurate with the damage from the war. The quote about those who did not sign is known to everyone and no exposing articles have been written about the person who said, and the president, under whom these "liberal repressions" took place, are not deleted from history, but vice versa.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 February 2021 09: 54
        0
        The current ruling class is building the society that will serve its interests ...
        Here you go.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 10 February 2021 09: 37
      -3
      Quote: rocket757
      Stalin, with his associates, with the support of most of our people, CREATED A GREAT COUNTRY ..... EVERYTHING, then you can not listen to anyone.

      I support your words completely. So that the opponents of Stalin would not sing, but they will not be able to vulgarize the Great Country and its people.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 February 2021 09: 53
        0
        Unfortunately, the ENEMIES, themselves create fertile ground for implanting their ideas, increasing their influence on the weak, not prepared minds of our younger generation !!!
        It is very difficult to fight against it !!!
        How would we not lose this battle ... because we are fragmented, almost alone are forced to fight it ...
        The top, the state, we are not an assistant here ... rather, THESE TOP, carry out their plans, which certainly do not coincide with ours.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 10 February 2021 10: 33
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          which certainly do not coincide with ours.

          Something like that "a pig is not a goose comrade." But I don't know who they think they are, a goose or a pig.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 10 February 2021 10: 42
            +2
            It doesn't matter. Both are future products for borscht or soup! If they do not leave the barn / chicken coop in time.
            We, in any case, should not give our children, so that some cunning "cook" would make a dish that is right for him.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 February 2021 12: 13
              +2
              Quote: rocket757
              It doesn't matter. Both are future products for borscht or soup! If they do not leave the barn / chicken coop in time.
              We, in any case, should not give our children, so that some cunning "cook" would make a dish that is right for him.

              Big fish eat small ones[Hamlet]. Capitalism constantly confirms this. Domestic thieves will be shod by those who are stronger.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 10 February 2021 12: 57
                +1
                There are unshakable postulates that the illiterate nouveau riche in crimson jackets tried to refute !!!
                So where are most of those "jackets" now ???
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 February 2021 13: 27
                  -1
                  Quote: rocket757
                  There are unshakable postulates that the illiterate nouveau riche in crimson jackets tried to refute !!!
                  So where are most of those "jackets" now ???
                  Well, we haven't read Hamlet's crimson jackets. There are also other words:
                  Epigraph in Martin Gardner's book "Mathematical Leisure". Suitable for capitalism:
                  Big fleas are bitten by fleas,
                  Those flea beetles - baby crumbs,
                  And there is no end to those parasites
                  As they say, ad infinitum.
                  Big flea in its turn
                  He bites the one on whom he lives.
                  That --- fleas are thicker, wider at the waist,
                  And there is no end to them, and so on ...

                  And more:
                  Specialists are open
                  Parasites have parasites,
                  And made a commotion
                  The fact that fleas have fleas.
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 10 February 2021 12: 07
            +1
            Nothing, foreigners will quickly explain to them!
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 10 February 2021 12: 58
              +1
              Long ago and specifically explained .. only some do not reach the end ... their end.
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 10 February 2021 13: 11
                +2
                Quote: rocket757
                Long ago and specifically explained .. only some do not reach the end ... their end.

                And nothing surprising - each of these thinks that it is he who has outstanding services, that he is special
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 10 February 2021 13: 57
                  +1
                  So figs on them ... the main thing from us, our riches, is to drive them away and get rid of them, no matter where.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 11 February 2021 17: 21
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          How would we not lose this battle ... because we are fragmented, almost alone are forced to fight it ...

          You have already lost it. There will be no turning back! In the information age, the one who controls its flows wins. Whoever puts a beautiful picture on a mobile phone rules. It will be enough to turn it off just for a day and say that it was done by .... such and such. And they are finished! The people will not forgive the loss of the picture. “Everything will be the way we want it. In case of various troubles, We have the Maxim machine gun, You don't have Maxim "(Hilary Bellock" New Traveler ")
    3. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 47
      +1
      Quote: rocket757
      CREATED A GREAT COUNTRY

      and where is she? request And why did the people not begin to defend her?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 February 2021 18: 47
        -3
        There are ups and downs ... the process of creation will never end, a lot of different, amazing things await us ahead.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 38
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          There are ups and downs

          those. to admit the banal - that the SV was a dictatorship and kept only on repression, you do not want? bully
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 February 2021 13: 06
            -2
            Quote: DrEng527
            NE

            are you talking about the Salon Wagon?
            if you want to live in a delirium of muddled dkadram like Solzhenitsyn ... your choice.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 13: 22
              +2
              Quote: rocket757
              are you talking about the Salon Wagon?

              are we talking about railway? Want to sound smart? better to be him ... bully
              Quote: rocket757
              if you want to live in delirium induced by mud dkadram like Solzhenitsyn ... your choice

              are you talking about yourself? you live in agitprop myths and do not want to admit the obvious! The Bolsheviks carried out a coup - like the modern Bandera! They dispersed Us and then held out only through terror! They introduced state policy by decree - Red Terror! And then the country was divided according to the class principle - unwanted classes robbed, exiled and destroyed! Then they sent links of the wrong people! By the way - this is purely Marxism - Karl had advanced and backward peoples! Russians are backward and counterrevolutionary ... hi
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 11 February 2021 15: 23
                -2
                Quote: DrEng527
                Want to sound smart? better to be him ...

                Quote: DrEng527
                And then the country was divided according to the class principle

                Division, restrictions, qualifications INvented and APPLIED long before the Bolsheviks ... teach materiel, then for the smart ...
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 10 February 2021 06: 16
    0
    Again, HYIP will be divorced into hundreds of comments. Some will say that everything was correct. Then Olgovich will come, talk about the great lost Russia until 1917, others will cry over the great lost Soviet Russia.
    1. tatra
      tatra 10 February 2021 06: 42
      +6
      The only difference is that the supporters of the USSR are sincere, and they are for the TRUTH about the history of our country, and the enemies of the USSR are lying and hypocritical, and they praise "Russia that we have lost" in October 1917 with their false and delusional myths - only for the sake of PROFIT in their propaganda against the USSR and the Soviet people.
    2. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 10 February 2021 06: 58
      +3
      The past needs to be known and remembered, but now in Russia the capitalists oppress the people more and more and in the near future everything will remain so, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 10 February 2021 09: 40
      -2
      Quote: Deniska999
      others will mourn over the great lost Soviet Russia.

      There is no need to cry, we must remember and not forget.
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 February 2021 09: 54
      -4
      Quote: Deniska999
      Again, HYIP will be divorced into hundreds of comments. Some will say that everything was correct. Then Olgovich will come, talk about the great lost Russia until 1917, others will cry over the great lost Soviet Russia.

      and only Deniska999 is all such D'Artagnan lol

      And yes - in great countries they don't die in peaceful years in the middle of the 20th century in the middle of Europe many, many millions of people .

      And in it 640 thousand citizens are not shot during a peaceful year, 2,6 million peasants are not exiled without trial, peoples are not exiled, their citizens' passports are not deprived, etc.

      DIRECTly say "yes / no" to this - not able to?

      Of course not.

      And why then your comment?
      1. Deniska999
        Deniska999 10 February 2021 10: 37
        -6
        Besides, any era has its positive and negative sides. I just don't have, honestly, any emotion about the fact that you brand every comment. I have the right to my opinion.

        Yes, there were exiles and executions. Nobody denies this. All great powers are built on the bones and suffering of citizens. In this case, it makes no sense to heroize any era.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 February 2021 11: 03
          -1
          Quote: Deniska999
          Besides, any era has its positive and negative sides. I just don't have, honestly, any emotion about the fact that you brand every comment. I have the right to my opinion.

          Yes, there were exiles and executions. Nobody denies this. All great powers are built on the bones and suffering of citizens. In this case, it makes no sense to heroize any era.


          Those. any millions of victims and at any time, even the future, are justified by you.

          And if this applies to you in some way, then what, I wonder?
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 48
            +2
            Quote: Olgovich
            And if this applies to you in some way, then what, I wonder?

            like the classic - "I can't do without dining ..." wink
          2. smoltish
            smoltish 10 February 2021 18: 01
            0
            There were no millions of victims. Yes, and I'm sorry for one innocent. But the commission created to expose Stalin in the millions of executions of innocents did not find millions of those shot. And about 5 percent are innocent. Yes, it's bad when the innocent. But the essence of it changes greatly, if you know the truth, and not liberalistic lies about tens of millions of innocent victims.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 10 February 2021 21: 11
              +1
              Quote: smoltish
              There were no millions of victims. Yes, and I'm sorry for one innocent.

              Were

              Many millions have died of HUNGER alone.

              This was not the case, not only in Russia NEVER, but in any Africa before.

              600 thousand peasants died in exile, 720 thousand were shot, hundreds of thousands died in exile, in camps

              And how many millions were NOT born to these millions of dead, how many were NOT born to the peasants who fled to the cities - in barracks, basements, attics, dugouts - the numbers are different and all-huge.

              And by 1991 Russia remained dying out in vast, half-empty spaces ...
              1. smoltish
                smoltish 10 February 2021 23: 50
                0
                Read about hunger from Zhukov and listen to Spitsyn.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 11 February 2021 04: 44
                  -3
                  Quote: smoltish
                  Read about hunger from Zhukov and listen to Spitsyn.

                  Are you kidding when you give such advice to Olgovich?
                  1. smoltish
                    smoltish 11 February 2021 08: 25
                    -2
                    And who is this Olgovich ?? Not from Rurikovich by the case?)
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 11 February 2021 08: 28
                      -3
                      Quote: smoltish
                      And who is this Olgovich ?? Not from Rurikovich by the case?)

                      It's hard to say .. what if ..
                2. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 11 February 2021 07: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: smoltish
                  Read about hunger from Zhukov and listen to Spitsyn.

                  I read these illiterate unhealthy people. I am sorry about the lost time.
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 11 February 2021 07: 35
                    -3
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: smoltish
                    Read about hunger from Zhukov and listen to Spitsyn.

                    I read these illiterate unhealthy people. I am sorry about the lost time.

                    Tell us about what you visit in the archives?
                    And yes, you are not happy with the hunger situation on the planet? What have you done to improve the situation?
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 February 2021 13: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Tell us about what you visit in the archives?
                      And yes, you are not happy with the hunger situation on the planet? What have you done to improve the situation?

                      Is it .... educational program? belay

                      "By herself, by herself!" (from)
                      Quote: mat-vey
                      Indeed, in the world it was even more trenchant, but in the same Republic of Ingushetia, but it’s different there life developed like that, and here the maniacs are dumb.


                      The fact of the matter is that NEVER in the WORLD had such a thing before 1933-tie a knot on your nose.
                      1. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 11 February 2021 17: 41
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The fact of the matter is that NEVER in the WORLD had such a thing before 1933-tie a knot on your nose.

                        And what about the educational program? Or just give advice to others? Or does it not fit into your world?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "She herself!"

                        Well, what about the archives? Where does she get the information herself? Their "Ogonyok" judging by the bearded myths ... Just Zhukov and Spitsyn saw more real documents than you have printed words in your life ... Where did you get such unsupported conceit?
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 February 2021 09: 47
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The fact of the matter is that NEVER in the WORLD had such a thing before 1933-tie a knot on your nose.

                        And what about the educational program? Or just give advice to others? Or does it not fit into your world?
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        "She herself!"

                        So what about the archives, where does "herself, herself" get the information? Their "Ogonyok" judging by the bearded myths ... Zhukov and Spitsyn You have seen more real documents than you have printed words in your life ... Where did you get such unsubstantiated self-conceit?

                        don't give a damn about these biased donkeys, read FIRST SOURCES: documents and monographs.
                      3. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 12 February 2021 09: 52
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        don't give a damn about these biased donkeys

                        Well, read it ... Only you are not even "biased" ... What are you reading?
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 12 February 2021 09: 58
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        PRIMARY SOURCES: documents and monographs.

                        So I wrote already: PRIMARY SOURCES: documents and monographs.
                      5. mat-vey
                        mat-vey 12 February 2021 10: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        So I wrote already: PRIMARY SOURCES: documents and monographs.

                        So I was interested in archives for a long time ... do you spend a lot of time? Or are you waiting for the "committed donkeys" to post them on the Internet or insert them into a book?
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 11 February 2021 04: 50
        -3
        Quote: Olgovich
        This was not the case, not only in Russia NEVER, but in any Africa before.

        According to the WHO, every day in the world 24 thousand people die from hunger and diseases caused by it. - The commies reached out ..
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 February 2021 07: 36
          +1
          Quote: mat-vey
          According to the WHO, 24 thousand people die of hunger every day in the world. - The commies reached out ..

          where there is the whole world to the only country in which from hunger and the diseases caused by it for the year 32-33 millions died, with cannibalism and corpse-eating.

          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 11 February 2021 07: 40
            -2
            Quote: Olgovich
            where is the whole world to the only country in which millions died from hunger and the diseases caused by it in a year 32-33 - with cannibalism and corpse-eating

            Indeed, in the world it was even more trenchant, but in the same Republic of Ingushetia, but it’s different there life developed like that, and here the maniacs are dumb.
            So what about the archives, do you have a doctorate or a Ph.D. in history?
  • New Year day
    New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 28
    +21
    Quote: Deniska999
    All great powers are built on the bones and suffering of citizens. In this case, it makes no sense to make heroes of any era.

    the only problem is different: the population is shrinking and is not replenished after such "construction projects".
    Losses during the Civil War in Russia (1917-1923)
    A total of 2 were killed and died of wounds.
    2 died as a result of terror
    6 died of hunger and epidemics
    Total killed 10 million
    2 emigrated
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 11 February 2021 05: 01
      -2
      Quote: Silvestr
      the only problem is different: the population is shrinking and is not replenished after such "construction projects".

      Even at the expense of a sharp reduction in child mortality?
  • Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 10 February 2021 11: 55
    -3
    Stop lying that 640 thousand were shot in a year ... here it is juggling ...
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 10 February 2021 08: 03
    -3
    Before talking about the so-called. "Stalinist repressions", it is necessary to give an exact definition of what it is all about, otherwise the level of discussion will be equivalent to the discussion of a comic book villain and "his wife killed herself, and it embittered him." Or the level of discussion, that some still believe that they shot and killed more people than in the country, others argue that according to all the documents it appears that they were shot (in fact, a sentence was passed, which could not have been carried out) " total "600 thousand. At least some logic in what is happening remains behind the scenes, although no government is interested in the destruction of its own people, because it feeds on this people.
  • silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 10 February 2021 08: 12
    -1
    a collection of liberal myths ... half-truths ... Khrushchev's manipulations and other dirt collected together and representing a sort of pseudo-truth ...
    on my own I will add sole power (a very controversial thesis) Stalin gained only by 38/39, when Yezhovshchina and the consequences of Yagoda's activities were done away with (just a marker, internal party groups are more difficult to analyze)
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 24
      +23
      Quote: silberwolf88
      on my own I will add sole power (a very controversial thesis) Stalin gained only in 38/39 when Yezhovshchina and the consequences of Yagoda's activities were done away with

      want to say. that Yagoda and Yezhov stood at the head of the NKVD in spite of Stalin? - He simply put them in order to fulfill the plan, and then he himself decided. Dead witness won't say anything
      1. silberwolf88
        silberwolf88 10 February 2021 22: 12
        -2
        always look at history only in the context of time ...
        Stalin did not have the power to single-handedly put a person in such a post ... these were compromise figures ... and Yezhov was generally carried away by his powers ... repeatedly voicing that they are power and stand OVER the party ...
        two people's commissars (one of them Trotsky) had officially American citizenship ...
        Trotsky and those who supported him in the coup attempt in 1927 were not executed))) only a link ...
        and so on ... but when the question of the right-wing seizure of power arose ... they cleaned it out ... BUT not by a sole decision but as a result of the victory of the loyal Leninists (the term can be used without a stretch) ... but the consequences of the excesses of the times of Yezhov and Yagoda Lavrenty Pavlovich eliminated some 10 years ... because there were simply no other people in the NKVD / MGB apparatus ...
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 10 February 2021 08: 14
    0
    And the appeals of Bukharin and the Rights to take into account the interests of the peasantry

    The author does not specify what kind of peasantry. Specifically, the kulaks. That is, the current Kuban Tsapoks, whom even the current government imprisoned.
    1. Asad
      Asad 10 February 2021 10: 02
      +2
      My grandfather was dispossessed for three horses, and to hard labor, where he died! And the grandmother with ten children was grieving. It is good in Siberia, the taiga, the lakes did not die of hunger. The collective farmers have worn out the horses for meat.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 10 February 2021 19: 40
        -4
        My grandfather was dispossessed for three horses, and to hard labor, where he died! And the grandmother with ten children was grieving.

        All relatives of the repressed claim this as a carbon copy. And how did he work in the field on these three horses at once? He lent these horses to his fellow villagers for a time of suffering, due to which he lived, winning popular love. It was the local authorities who sent him to places not so distant; I do not think that Stalin or Kalinin personally did this.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 10 February 2021 20: 08
          +1
          Quote: Aviator_
          I don't think that Stalin or Kalinin personally did it

          Of course Stalin is not in business
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 10 February 2021 13: 07
      -4
      Quote: Aviator_
      And the appeals of Bukharin and the Rights to take into account the interests of the peasantry

      The author does not specify what kind of peasantry. Specifically, the kulaks. That is, the current Kuban Tsapoks, whom even the current government imprisoned.

      And what did the fists not please? They gave work to the peasants, traded. Fists and knuckles are not comparable things
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 10 February 2021 19: 32
        0
        They gave work to the peasants, traded. Fists and knuckles are not comparable things

        For some reason, the peasants enslaved by them were not too happy about such "work". Again, these "employers" engaged in usury in their villages, which also did not add to their popularity.
    3. New Year day
      New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 22
      +20
      Quote: Aviator_
      That is, the current Kuban Tsapoks, whom even the current government imprisoned.

      if they had not committed atrocities, they would have reigned in Kushchevskaya to this day. Greed and permissiveness failed
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 10 February 2021 19: 28
        -1
        if they had not committed atrocities, they would have reigned in Kushchevskaya to this day. Greed and permissiveness failed

        And the fist in the 30s, therefore, was white and fluffy, like in the 1989 Ogonyok magazine?
    4. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 49
      +2
      Quote: Aviator_
      Specifically, the kulaks. That is, the current Kuban Tsapoks,

      those. do you claim that all those exiled were murderers? It's more reasonable to assume that you have a problem ... request
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 10 February 2021 19: 26
        -1
        do you claim that all those exiled were murderers?

        This is not me, but you. In general, contemporaries knew better, who is who.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 40
          0
          Quote: Aviator_
          This is not me, but you.

          Quote: Aviator_
          but there are the current Kuban Tsapoks, whom even the current government imprisoned.

          Tsapkov was imprisoned for murder! Your analogy! so called have you admitted that you are giving up your words or are not able to express your thoughts? bully
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 11 February 2021 19: 49
            0
            Tsapkov was jailed for murder!

            Did the kulaks kill anyone in the 30s? Is this how your thesis should be understood? Once again - the decision to expel was made by the peasants themselves, it was at their request that the world eaters (do you know this term?) Traveled far and for a long time.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 12 February 2021 11: 20
              +1
              Quote: Aviator_
              Did the kulaks kill anyone in the 30s?

              were all the exiled 2 million murderers? Looks like you have a squirrel ... bully
              Quote: Aviator_
              the decision on expulsion was made by the peasants themselves,

              Delirium of an illiterate ... bully Did the VKPb cell let it take its course for you? Reread Sholokhov ...
              Quote: Aviator_
              Miroeaters (do you know this term?) traveled far and for a long time.

              scoop is like a brand ... request kulaks did not violate the laws of the USSR! And the mycoed, like the careerist, is the definition of the poor and lazy ... wink Let me remind you that many of these peasants who pulled their hands "for" according to the lists of the Revolutionary Committee / Ukom, etc. then we went to the Gulag for spikelets, anti-Soviet agitation and other clauses of Article 58 ... request
  • Sotskiy
    Sotskiy 10 February 2021 08: 38
    +1
    Author Yuri Apukhtin: "But nothing can justify the tragedies of hundreds of thousands of innocent people who fell into the molokh of repression."

    Smallish, author. It does not even reach the level of the Ogonyok magazine of the 90s.
    What the author wanted to say with this scribble is not clear to me, what is the purpose of the "article"? To assess Stalin's policy from the side of the ruling ideology of the bourgeois-liberal system now? If so, the author chose the "authority" questionable after October 1993 and market "reforms" that are still going on, continuing to reduce the population of the entire former Union, but this is certainly not repression, these are "reforms" in relation to the Soviet the population who did not fit into the new ideology of the "market". lol
    Or maybe the author wanted to give a historical assessment, as a specialist - historian? So I have not heard something about the famous historian Yuri Apukhtin, and if we talk about Stalin's activities, then somehow the Soviet archives are closer, and not the conclusions of newly-minted writers.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 10 February 2021 09: 03
      +1
      Sovetsky Well, according to the estimates of official historians, you are definitely not on this site comrade. Here everyone can put their own opinion for consideration. Write your opinion - read, evaluate, mode and praise.
      1. Sotskiy
        Sotskiy 10 February 2021 10: 37
        -1
        Quote: evgen1221
        Write your opinion - read, evaluate, mode and praise.

        At one time I chose a technical university, and literary talents in my profession were valued only in reports and submission of reports to higher management. lol
        So the writing talent is not mine, and only "effective managers" like the legendary Mutko & Co. can do their job. lol I am not one of them.
        1. evgen1221
          evgen1221 10 February 2021 11: 20
          +1
          We have complete freedom, equality and brotherhood here. Do not be alarmed, even a clumsy tiny article, if not completely miserable (and even then the editors help for free), is able to find its readers here. Try it, the outside view is very useful for the case.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 10 February 2021 09: 00
    +1
    In the wake of the frenzy of the civil war, many in the party were reborn and felt the taste of permissiveness and sybarism, becoming essentially the same beys and petty all-possessing princelings with appropriate manners and tricks. It was against these elements that cleansing was started, and since cozy places do not give up without a fight and they were not going to change in principle, then what began began, and this was the deep meaning of cleansing, from which the remainder of today is in memory for the most part flying off chips with cutting of trunks. IMHO my purely personal opinion on this issue of the history of my country.
  • Ka-52
    Ka-52 10 February 2021 09: 01
    +2
    His pretty wife Milda Draule worked in Smolny and was the mistress of Kirov, who was reputed to be a passionate admirer of women.

    this is clearly out of the blue. And according to the photo, Milda's attractiveness is quite controversial and subjective
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 February 2021 10: 28
      0
      Quote: Ka-52
      His pretty wife Milda Draule worked in Smolny and was the mistress of Kirov, who was reputed to be a passionate admirer of women.

      this is clearly out of the blue. And according to the photo, Milda's attractiveness is quite controversial and subjective

      It's such a spreading cranberry that it's even inconvenient ...
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 10 February 2021 09: 49
    +2
    A hand does not rise to justify repression. But we live in a different world. And it is difficult for us to understand what happened not only in our country, but throughout Europe. And it is difficult to understand the people of that time. It only makes me angry when liberals say, that everything that was built was built on bones, and it didn't stop them from taking over everything that was created in the USSR. And what does not need to be defeated. Soviet ideology never stooped to the baseness of insulting Tsarist Russia. What we hear from the lips of our artists is a direct violation of humanity. These persons are ready to adapt to any social order. And it will be necessary, they will spit on us.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 February 2021 10: 27
      -4
      Quote: nikvic46
      A hand is not raised to justify repression.

      and repression in relation to such as Bandera can be justified?
      1. nikvic46
        nikvic46 10 February 2021 12: 19
        +4
        Matvey: In my opinion, I didn’t say a word about Bandera, this is already in your fevered perception. In that fierce fight that took place in the last century, our entrance is closed. Or do you all want to start over?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 10 February 2021 12: 30
          -4
          Quote: nikvic46
          Matvey: In my opinion, I did not say a word about the Banderaites.

          So they are, so to speak, participants ... Only in relation to them, repression must be justified. Or is it just what the state was supposed to do? Just when the topic "for repression" comes up, then for some reason immediately some "innocent murdered" As if there was no white movement, no foreign intelligence services, no saboteurs, well, everything else wonderful aimed at undermining and overthrowing Soviet power ... Well, in addition, all the characters went through an excellent school of the wonderful life of the Civil War, the First World War, and they had a lot of crunching bread.
          1. nikvic46
            nikvic46 10 February 2021 12: 36
            +4
            Matvey. Innocent people died in the repressions, and that's what I meant. I don’t give a damn about Bandera and various bandits.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 10 February 2021 13: 09
              -4
              Quote: nikvic46
              Matvey. Innocent people died in the repressions, and that's what I meant. I don’t give a damn about Bandera and various bandits.

              And how many were there? Innocent? And by what standards to measure? That time or modern? Well, can you give in the history of mankind at least one example of a repressive machine that works without failures and errors?
              1. New Year day
                New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 17
                +22
                Quote: mat-vey
                even one example of a repressive machine that works without failures and errors?

                are they chopping wood, chips flying? And along the line of my wife, someone was in Solovki, and someone in Kazakhstan
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 10 February 2021 17: 20
                  -2
                  Quote: Silvestr
                  are they chopping wood, chips flying? And along the line of my wife, someone was in Solovki, and someone in Kazakhstan

                  Well, I have a great-grandfather .. only those who then absolutely deservedly slapped him. And according to reports in one "list".
      2. New Year day
        New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 20
        +23
        Quote: mat-vey
        and repression in relation to such as Bandera can be justified?

        what kind of repression to them?

        In the 54th amnesty, if immediately, in the 45th they imprisoned, then 9 years in prison for treason is not repression
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 10 February 2021 17: 23
          -2
          Quote: Silvestr
          In the 54th amnesty, if immediately, in the 45th they imprisoned, then 9 years in prison for treason is not repression

          In 54 it was no longer Stalin.
          Quote: Silvestr
          what kind of repression to them?

          Political must be assumed .. although probably also innocent victims of the regime.
      3. DrEng527
        DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 53
        +2
        Quote: mat-vey
        and repression in relation to such as Bandera can be justified?

        proven in court! see the trials of terrorists in the Caucasus ... hi
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 February 2021 11: 01
      -3
      Oh, a fan of nationalism noted.
    3. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 February 2021 12: 13
      -3
      Quote: mat-vey
      Oh, a fan of nationalism noted.

      This is not natural for you, for those who raised the question about Bandera.
  • sniperino
    sniperino 10 February 2021 10: 22
    +1
    He proceeded from the assumption that the success of collectivization would largely depend on whether or not it would be possible to break the opposition of the kulaks and sweep them off the stage of history. They also represented a serious force. In 1927, there were 1,1 million kulak farms in the country, which sowed 15% of the country's sown area.
    What is the danger? 85% of the cultivated area could be cultivated by collective farms, there would be an opportunity for competition and an interest in increasing the efficiency of socialized labor. Why was it necessary to deprive oneself of this "danger"?
    Pursuing a tough policy with inevitable costs, he understood that the further and more successfully he advances in solving his problems, suppressing the resistance of his opponents, the wider the circle of his real and potential opponents becomes.
    In the article, Yagoda is casually mentioned 2 times: the first time in the 1th year, as replaced by Stalin with the ruthless Yezhov, and the second time in the 36th year, among the innocent victims of the bloody dictator. And before that, when the flywheel of the class struggle was spinning, it seemed as if it did not exist at all. Meanwhile, Enoch Gershonovich (Genakh Girshevich, Genrikh Girshevich) Yagoda (Yehuda) since 38, being the head of the Secret Operations Directorate, after the death of F. Dzerzhinsky, became the first deputy chairman of the OGPU and, due to Menzhinsky's illness, actually headed this institution. Where did Stalin get information about the intensification of the class struggle of the kulaks and podkulaks in the countryside raised by the NEP? Was Yagoda, who formally did not submit to Stalin, related to such an understanding of Stalin and to the repressions carried out at that time? Who was Yezhov tied hand and foot, since he was an alcoholic and a homosexual? Stalin or Yagoda? Why did Stalin need to promote himself against the backdrop of increasing repression? To associate them with your name later? The author tried to bypass the dark spots in this story. and present the Trotskyite-Zinoviev bloc as white and fluffy, innocently destroyed by an insidious dictator.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 55
      +1
      Quote: sniperino
      Why was it necessary to deprive oneself of this "danger"?

      so kulaks produced marketable products and demanded payment for them! And then the collective farms just robbed request
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 11 February 2021 10: 32
        0
        Quote: DrEng527
        kulaks produced marketable products and demanded payment for them!
        They could demand, but they could also rob them, especially in emergency situations. They did not go to the collective farm, and were very much needed as an engine for the development of socialized productive forces in the agricultural sector. For this, Stalin and the workers' artels kept them, which Khrushchev then destroyed, because he did not understand anything in dialectics. Here the question is in concrete actions in relation to the kulak of local representatives of the authorities and in the nature of the resistance of the kulaks to these actions. But this question was in the competence of Yagoda.
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 44
          +1
          Quote: sniperino
          especially in emergencies

          there were only emergencies in the USSR ... request
          Quote: sniperino
          They did not go to the collective farm

          you are mistaken - it was forbidden to take them!
          Quote: sniperino
          were very much needed as an engine

          that is why the slogan was put forward to destroy them as a class? You have strange thoughts in your head ... bully Let me remind you that Bukharin's thesis about the growing kulaks into socialism was rejected by the IVS!
          Quote: sniperino
          Here the question is in concrete actions in relation to the kulak of local government representatives and in the nature of the kulaks' resistance to these actions.

          aha, the perpetrators and the robbed are to blame ... wink
          1. sniperino
            sniperino 11 February 2021 12: 48
            -2
            Quote: DrEng527
            You have strange thoughts in your head combining
            It's strange that you have known facts in your head that are not combined into any idea.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 56
              0
              Quote: sniperino
              then the known facts in your head are not combined into any thought.

              I showed you that you bring the opposite together - don't you get it? your problem bully
              1. sniperino
                sniperino 11 February 2021 13: 50
                -3
                Quote: DrEng527
                i showed you
                You did not show, but distorted. There is a difference. The meaning of my statement is simple: 1. The decision to destroy the kulaks as a class was not taken alone by Stalin; 2. The nature of the class struggle in the countryside and the perception of this struggle of those who made the decision to destroy the kulaks as a class were most influenced by the "executors and the robbed"
                Here is what Lenin said in 1918 at a meeting of delegates of the committees of the poor:
                ... if the fist remains intact, if we do not defeat the world eaters, then inevitably there will be a tsar and a capitalist again. "

                Here is what Stalin said at the 1927th Congress of the CPSU (b) in XNUMX:
                Those comrades who think that it is possible and necessary to put an end to the kulak through administrative measures, through the GPU, are wrong: he said, put a seal, and that's it. This remedy is easy, but far from valid. Kulak must be taken by means of economic measures and on the basis of Soviet legality. And Soviet legality is not an empty phrase. This does not exclude, of course, the use of certain necessary administrative measures against the kulak. But administrative measures should not replace economic measures. Serious attention must be paid to the distortions of the Party line in the struggle against the kulaks in the practice of our cooperative bodies, especially in the area of ​​agricultural credit.

                In 1929, Chayanov's ideas on the forms of organizing peasant cooperatives were supplanted by the Politburo commission on socialist reconstruction of agriculture under the leadership of the People's Commissar of Agriculture Epstein and the head of the Kritsman Agrarian Institute, who promoted the idea of ​​a cooperative of the kibbutz type. In this connection, Chayanov was hounded, and then the OGPU opened a case and he was shot. Did Stalin do all this?
                1. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 11 February 2021 14: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: sniperino
                  Did Stalin do all this?

                  you have an aberration of concepts, and you accuse others of
                  Quote: sniperino
                  You did not show, but distorted. There is a difference.

                  I did not distort, I showed you the essence:
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  Let me remind you that Bukharin's thesis about the growing kulaks into socialism was rejected by the IVS!

                  your delights about the poor and innocent IVS, whose good ideas have been spoiled by bad ones with = performers is stupidity! It was the IVS that put forward the thesis of the destruction of the kulaks as a class! And the executors only carried out his decision, and the same Molotov forbade punishing the over-sluggers! This is the classic scheme of the Bolsheviks - they are liars from the day their party was founded!
                  1. sniperino
                    sniperino 11 February 2021 15: 01
                    -2
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    you have an aberration of concepts
                    What, if not a secret?
                    Quote: DrEng527
                    It was the IVS that put forward the thesis of the destruction of the kulaks as a class!
                    I cited quotes from Lenin in 1918 and Stalin in 1927. You persistently on Stalin, to whom the OGPU, the People's Commissariat of Agriculture, etc. did not obey until 34, you persistently blame Khrushchev's scheme and scratch about some kind of "classic Bolshevik scheme" with an emphasis on the intrigues of the maniac Stalin, who combined repression with a cult personality. Stop talking nonsense.
                    1. DrEng527
                      DrEng527 11 February 2021 15: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: sniperino
                      What, if not a secret?

                      corny - a causal relationship!
                      Quote: sniperino
                      I cited quotes from Lenin in 1918 and Stalin in 1927

                      1) The words VIL belonged to a different era - GV!
                      2) The words of the IVS show his unprincipledness - he spoke at 27 about economic victory, and acted administratively in 30 - robbery and exile!
                      Quote: sniperino
                      Stalin, who did not obey the OGPU until 34, the People's Commissariat of Agriculture, etc.,

                      It's funny! bully The IVS is headed by the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, and this is the MAIN authority and everyone in the USSR is subordinate to it! Yes. not as absolutely as in 1939, but quite!

                      Quote: sniperino
                      scratching about some "classical Bolshevik scheme"

                      don't you even know that? bully Everything that goes into the cause of the revolution is moral! request
                      Therefore, the VIL (and the IVS) calmly lied from the stands ...
                      Quote: sniperino
                      Stop flogging nonsense.

                      this is your path - illiteracy and blinkeredness ... request
                      1. sniperino
                        sniperino 11 February 2021 15: 25
                        -3
                        Quote: DrEng527
                        aberration of concepts
                        Quote: sniperino
                        What, if not a secret?
                        corny - a causal relationship!
                        Then not aberration of concepts, but illogism; if you like smart words, more often clarify their dictionary meanings
                        Quote: DrEng527
                        this is your path
                        It is a pity that your path has bypassed the history of the USSR along the path of the history of the CPSU.
                      2. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 11 February 2021 17: 18
                        0
                        Quote: sniperino
                        check their dictionary meanings more often

                        I put it exactly, you do not understand ... wink
                        Quote: sniperino
                        bypassed the history of the USSR along the path of the history of the CPSU

                        you are mistaken, the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union passed perfectly ... laughing
                      3. sniperino
                        sniperino 11 February 2021 18: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: DrEng527
                        I passed the history of the CPSU perfectly
                        So I am about the same. This "helped" not to know the history of the USSR, because the lies in the CPSU were too much for science.
                      4. DrEng527
                        DrEng527 12 February 2021 10: 54
                        +1
                        Quote: sniperino
                        This "helped" not to know the history of the USSR

                        if you are about yourself - these are your problems ... no need to decide and think for others! hi
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 10 February 2021 11: 55
    0
    Author, you Stalin is some kind of maniac
    If Vyacheslav Olegovich wrote it, what would start here !?
  • smaug78
    smaug78 10 February 2021 12: 16
    +2
    And why did the author keep silent about the number of those executed, execution lists, triplets ...
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 15
      +22
      Quote: smaug78
      And why did the author keep silent about the number of people shot, execution lists, triplets

      not camille request
  • vladcub
    vladcub 10 February 2021 13: 56
    -2
    "Did the author" hold a candle "who was known as a passionate admirer of women? Or maybe SM Kirov himself said.
    Indeed, such details are known about Kirov, which is called second-hand. I do not refute this version, but we must take into account that we had: "the rule of good manners" on the dead: "blaspheme" (c)
  • mmaxx
    mmaxx 10 February 2021 14: 57
    +3
    Speaking about Stalin's cruelty, everyone forgets that those people went through the civil war. And everyone knew about her. No one had any illusions about the victory of one of the sides. And Stalin could not afford to plunge the country into the same one again. Moreover, the old Bolsheviks with great enthusiasm destroyed each other and a bunch of people along the way with complete delight besides Stalin. And being in Stalin's office in the late times of the wiretapping, established under Yezhov, says that it was not so simple.
    What is civil war and what cruelty is, I recommend not for the faint of heart to find a story on Zen (which source is there) about what it means to chop into cabbage. I was especially impressed with how people stood in line to hang themselves.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 11 February 2021 04: 35
      -1
      Quote: mmaxx
      Speaking about Stalin's cruelty, everyone forgets that those people went through the civil war.

      People also went through the First World War (soldiers and dogs are not allowed to enter), and several peasant riots suppressed by the punishers a year, and 14 working hours a day, 6 days a week.
      1. mmaxx
        mmaxx 11 February 2021 18: 54
        -1
        Now it is surprising that one of the requirements of the soldiers after February was the requirement to turn to the soldiers for you. The officers are so fed up with them. The current, as it were, also concerns.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 11 February 2021 19: 10
          -1
          Quote: mmaxx
          The current, as it were, also concerns.

          Well, what are you, we are only at the beginning of the path to Russia which we have lost ..
          1. mmaxx
            mmaxx 11 February 2021 19: 21
            0
            Yes, I personally belonged to the SA. I loved some so much that I only lacked the 17th)).
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 12 February 2021 04: 33
              -1
              Quote: mmaxx
              Yes, I personally belonged to the SA. I loved some so much that I only lacked the 17th)).

              How do you feel about corporal punishment in the army? In a howling army, too? What kind of love can not be love?
              1. mmaxx
                mmaxx 12 February 2021 14: 22
                0
                Like any normal person. A soldier in the army is a disenfranchised brute. Do what you like with him. But he will remember everything. And there will be a case - he will answer necessarily And nothing can be done about it)))
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 12 February 2021 15: 18
                  -1
                  Quote: mmaxx
                  But he will remember everything. And there will be a case - he will answer necessarily. And nothing can be done about it)))

                  A barrage of detachments in their modern "interpretation" to survive during the Second World War would not have any chances. And at the end of 1916, they just began to answer ... and the new "arrivals" did not burn with enthusiasm at all.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 10 February 2021 16: 10
    -2
    I suggest that those who consider the article biased and biased, bypass it with their attention and not be wasted on comments under it.
    It was enough for me to read the last sentence.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 10 February 2021 17: 14
    +22
    What was Stalin guided by? -
    ... fighting your political opponents.
    and maintaining personal power
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 February 2021 17: 26
      -1
      Quote: Silvestr
      and maintaining personal power

      And what did he use it for? This power?
  • Amur
    Amur 10 February 2021 17: 17
    -1
    The 20th Party Congress covered up the crimes of real traitors and denigrated the heroes.
    Great substitution.
  • smoltish
    smoltish 10 February 2021 17: 57
    -3
    The author would be better prepared about repression. And the point is to tell. Otherwise, it misleads the reader. Zhukov Yu.N. I would like to read about the number of repressed, and about articles 58, 59. And what was included in these articles. And much, much more. Well, for objectivity.
    1. smaug78
      smaug78 10 February 2021 18: 57
      +2
      And you try to read Zemskov, otherwise you cannot see objectivity, as well as knowledge (
      1. smoltish
        smoltish 10 February 2021 23: 58
        -1
        Zemskov is a liberal. Liberal is not good. Well, the criticism of him is such that it is straight ... All the same, they clearly slander Stalin. And about the Holodomor, and about repression, and about military losses and much more. All the same, honest historians notice very important facts about which liberal historians "forget" to mention. Stalin is a great man. Yes, he made mistakes, but he also admitted. And a tyrant is made of him on purpose.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 11 February 2021 04: 30
          -2
          Quote: smoltish
          Zemskov is a liberal. Liberal is not good.

          Only now he had conclusions ... He did not find terror, although he was looking for it. But the man was honest ..
          1. smaug78
            smaug78 11 February 2021 05: 38
            0
            He wasn’t looking for him ...
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 11 February 2021 05: 40
              -1
              Quote: smaug78
              He wasn’t looking for him ...

              I never found it ... Or do you disagree with him?
          2. smoltish
            smoltish 11 February 2021 08: 28
            +2
            Probably the most objective among liberals.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 11 February 2021 08: 32
              0
              Quote: smoltish
              Probably the most objective among liberals.

              I'm not sure that he was a liberal, so the liberals made a bet on him, but he took it and turn out to be an honest man. He was admitted to the archives, but he did not justify ... so the archives were closed again, out of harm's way, and then suddenly some more the myth will suffer.
              1. smoltish
                smoltish 11 February 2021 08: 46
                -1
                Since there is no evidence of Stalin's "crimes" in the archives. Otherwise Nikita Khrushchev would have poured so much on him.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 11 February 2021 08: 53
                  -1
                  Quote: smoltish
                  Since there is no evidence of Stalin's "crimes" in the archives. Otherwise Nikita Khrushchev would have poured so much on him.

                  And how does this prevent someone from believing their “convictions?” There were a lot of problems, but there you have to think about it (if you want to understand something, you want to know), and so they simplified everything to complete primitiveness - maniacs came to power to stupid - hawai, don't think ... and repent, repent ..
                  1. smoltish
                    smoltish 11 February 2021 09: 39
                    0
                    You're right. The most vile lie came from the Yakovlevites in Gorbachev's time. Outright lie. And many believe.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 11 February 2021 09: 50
                      0
                      Quote: smoltish
                      You're right. The most vile lie came from the Yakovlevites in Gorbachev's time. Outright lie. And many believe.

                      So heaped up ... Although that's exactly where it started - but how did it really happen?
                      1. smoltish
                        smoltish 11 February 2021 11: 20
                        0
                        It was all very difficult. The times are not easy. No one had the experience of building such a state. There were mistakes, of course. Enemies still "helped" us. But there was definitely no purposeful destruction of the people.
                        A very interesting era. There are serious researchers. It is especially good to read narrow specialists. You can't write it briefly here. You can only give links. I am still under study. But according to the most common myths, there is a lot of information from professional historians.