Military Review

Dutch Minister on MH17 case: There is no reason to accuse Ukraine of not closing the airspace over Donbas in 2014

128

In Ukraine, they reacted to the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Netherlands Stef Blok regarding the investigation of the MH17 case. This is a case that has been under investigation for the seventh year, and in the course of this investigation, the so-called international investigation strangely ignores the basic facts and evidence. One of these facts: why Ukraine did not close the airspace over Donbass for civil aviation?


This question was addressed to the mentioned Stef Blok by a group of parliamentarians, demanding to include the situation with open airspace in the case in July 2014.

According to the head of the Netherlands' foreign ministry, "there is no reason to accuse Ukraine of not closing the airspace over Donbass in due time."

The subsequent rhetoric of Mr. Blok is even more surprising. According to the head of the Dutch Foreign Ministry, "several cases have been analyzed in which aircraft were shot down in the sky over the war zone."

Steph Blok in a letter to parliament:

The analysis showed that there is no specific practice for the complete closure of airspace in such cases.

According to Mr. Blok, the investigation "does not have sufficient evidence that the Ukrainian side had reason to see a threat to the flight of civilian airliners."

Much like the overt cynicism of a Dutch government official. What "proof" does the Bloc need that air traffic over a combat zone is dangerous in principle? If the Armed Forces of Ukraine have experience in shooting down civilian aircraft even during exercises, then what can we say about real hostilities ...

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, the Dutch minister's statement has sparked enthusiasm among those who are still trying to shift the blame for the strike on the Malaysian airliner onto the DPR militia and Russia.

However, there are those in Ukraine who comment on Blok's words without the above-mentioned enthusiasm:

Does this mean that the minister himself is ready to fly over territories where battles are taking place?
128 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 7 February 2021 15: 37
    +38
    Let it be nonsense, tell the relatives of the deceased passengers.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 7 February 2021 15: 47
      +36
      Just some kind of Wonderland! I wish the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands - to fly over the war zone, if it arrives - ask for a comment fool
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn 7 February 2021 16: 26
        +27
        Quote: Hunter 2
        Just some sort of looking glass!

        If developed, it turns out ... Ukroina did not see the danger for civilian liners flying at high altitudes. Thus, they knew for sure that the militia did not have air defense systems operating at such heights. wink
        I wonder if you really have to take Kiev to prove your innocence. angry
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 7 February 2021 17: 45
          +6
          According to the head of the Netherlands' foreign ministry, "there is no reason to accuse Ukraine of not closing the airspace over Donbass in due time."
          Much like the overt cynicism of a Dutch government official.

          A fascist - he is a fascist.
          Dutch Foreign Minister Stef Blok, regarding the investigation of the MH17 case in relation to the guilt of Ukraine, simply signed for fascism itself and connivance with American henchmen in the junta in Kiev.
          1. Vladimir Mashkov
            Vladimir Mashkov 7 February 2021 18: 10
            +6
            The Dutchman Blok was completely stupid in his desire in any way to shield Ukraine from the investigation of the downed Boeing over Donbass: how is it that Ukraine is NOT to blame for NOT closing the airspace over the war zone and sending a passenger plane there ??? fool
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 7 February 2021 18: 42
              +6
              It's just that Steph Blok in this excuse of Ukraine's guilt in the investigation of the MH-17 case by the Netherlands was somehow corruptly smeared himself!
              I do not find any other reason for this answer.
              1. military_cat
                military_cat 7 February 2021 19: 44
                -9
                He only recounted the ICAO decision of 2015, which blamed Malaysia Airlines for choosing the dangerous route, and Malaysia Airlines has already paid compensation to the families of the victims.
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 7 February 2021 19: 59
                  +3
                  Quote: military_cat
                  The question to the aforementioned Stef Blok was addressed by a group of parliamentarians, demanding that the situation with open airspace be included in the case in July 2014.

                  Nevertheless, the question to the mentioned Stef Blok was addressed by a group of Dutch parliamentarians, demanding the inclusion of the open airspace situation in July 2014.
                  If Stef Blok had not had the authority to do this, parliamentarians would not have turned to him.
                  1. military_cat
                    military_cat 7 February 2021 20: 09
                    -3
                    The parliamentarians demanded an investigation to get more clarity about Ukraine's role in the disaster. The block announced the results of the investigation.

                    Here is the original of this navost in Dutch with google translate:
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 7 February 2021 20: 18
                      +3
                      Quote: military_cat
                      Here is the original of this navost in Dutch with google translate:
                       Show / Hide text
                      https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=nl&tl=ru&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nu.nl%2Fvliegramp-oekraine%2F6114674%2Fonderzoek-oekraine-onbewust-van-bedreiging-luchtvaart-rond-mh17-ramp.html%3Fredirect%3D1

                      You need the title of the article itself.
                      And your link simply offers advertising on the use of automatic translators in Google and Yandex.
                      1. military_cat
                        military_cat 7 February 2021 20: 21
                        -2
                        "Onderzoek: Oekraïne onbewust van bedreiging luchtvaart rond MH17-ramp"

                        https://www.nu.nl/vliegramp-oekraine/6114674/onderzoek-oekraine-onbewust-van-bedreiging-luchtvaart-rond-mh17-ramp.html
                      2. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 7 February 2021 20: 32
                        +4
                        Thanks! Wish I could read it. I do not want to consent to confidentiality for a foreign site for which permission they are requesting.
                        What is the name of the article in Russian, otherwise you can't see the privacy window? It will appear on Russian sites.
                      3. Tatyana
                        Tatyana 7 February 2021 20: 51
                        +7
                        Technical expert Yuriy Antipov believes that the turn will come to Ukraine. The primary task, in his opinion, today is the acquittal of three Russian citizens and one Ukrainian accused in the MH17 case. If successful, Moscow can initiate the convening of a new investigation team, which will establish the true causes of the disaster. This is where Kiev will have to answer very uncomfortable questions. Namely
                        “The SBU allegedly tracked the moving Buk (and they base their entire accusation on this), including in the combat zone. Accordingly, they had to close with lightning speed, in fact, the entire flight zone, because passenger planes fly at the level of 9-12 kilometers, and the Buk's firing height is up to 20 kilometers, ”Antipov emphasized.

                        It turns out that the Ukrainian special services either did not know anything about the Buk air defense system and simply invented the main "proof" of the West against Russia, or deliberately refused to completely close the airspace, having information about the location of the installation.
                        For more details see - https://politpuzzle.ru/183960-ekspert-sovershil-razbor-poletov-i-dokazal-vinu-kieva-v-dele-mh17/
                      4. military_cat
                        military_cat 7 February 2021 22: 14
                        -2
                        Aren't you afraid of Windows updates? After all, there is no guarantee that Microsoft will not try to chip you with them.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 7 February 2021 20: 58
          +9
          Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
          how is it Ukraine is NOT to blame for not closing the airspace over the war zone and sending a passenger plane there ???

          who told you that?
        3. yehat2
          yehat2 8 February 2021 13: 00
          +2
          Quote: Vladimir Mashkov
          Dutchman Blok was completely dumb in his quest

          the Dutch have 2 businesses - trade at sea and foreign trade in all kinds of flowers and berries.
          All this is very strongly held by the US bells.
          if Holland disobeys them even a little, then Khan's trade.
          therefore, Blok has only one aspiration - not to fall under the distribution.
          personally, it would be more pleasant for him not to know that Ukraine exists.
      2. Catfish
        Catfish 8 February 2021 01: 33
        0
        What is fascism and who are fascists? Can you give a precise definition? laughing
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 8 February 2021 09: 43
          +2
          Quote: Sea Cat
          What is fascism and who are fascists? Can you give a precise definition? laughing

          A separate "twig" - a Nazi in a common bundle - a "broomstick" from the collective Nazis!
          Will this definition suit you for Russophobes?
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 8 February 2021 16: 08
            -4
            No, it won't. Nazism is one thing, fascism is another, and the "twig" in the fascine was, rather, Italy, and not Germany. And "collective nazis" are whistling wherever Fagotu is. laughing
            You have not convinced me even once, so with this, perhaps, you really need to talk to the Russophobes gentlemen, maybe the eccentric young lady will understand. love hi
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 8 February 2021 16: 34
              +1
              .
              Quote: Sea Cat
              Nazism is one thing, fascism is another

              This is the old song of the new Natsiks who do not want to be called fascists in the eyes of naive ordinary people according to the Soviet terminology in the interpretation of the Second World War.
              In fact, the Italian fascists fought "wonderfully" on Soviet soil shoulder to shoulder with the Nazi invaders during the Second World War. So there is no difference between them for Russia!
              "Twig" -fascist, I consider individual citizens in the so-called. "5th column" of their states for the establishment of global domination of GLOBALISTS over other peoples and countries.
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 8 February 2021 16: 45
                -2
                What a porridge you have. smile
                It's not about who "fought brilliantly on Soviet soil, shoulder to shoulder, etc.", but about the essence of ideologies. There are many who fought here, but Romanians, Hungarians and Finns cannot be called fascists even with a stretch. And the difference for Russia is and always has been, for example - the Finns, so you do not sign for the whole of Russia, not by rank.
                "Twig" -fascist, I consider individual citizens in the so-called. "5th column" of their states for the establishment of global domination of GLOBALISTS over other peoples and countries.

                But you cannot argue with this, because it is a priori pointless to argue with a meaningless set of words.
                By the way, our Russian Natsiks fought beautifully near Lugansk and very successfully beat the bandera. How are we going with this?
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 8 February 2021 17: 25
                  +3
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  our Russian Natsiks fought beautifully near Lugansk and very successfully beat the bandera. How are we going with this?

                  Russian nationalists in the DPR and LPR were not invaders, but defenders of the Russian people from GENOCIDE by the new Hitlerite henchmen in Ukraine, who, under the flags of war criminals Bandera and Shukhevych, also dream of conquering Russia - right up to the Pacific Ocean.
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  And the difference for Russia is and always has been, for example, the Finns
                  And what do you know about the Finns - even during the 1917 revolution, even during the Second World War? They collaborated with the Entente against Russia and with the same Hitler!

                  And this is for you to think about the Finns and the Finn Mannerheim, which runs counter to your beliefs about Finland's non-cooperation with the Third Raise, but your beliefs are in perfect agreement with some of the high-ranking officials-liberals of the Russian Federation.

                  Memorial plaque to Mannerheim was opened in St. Petersburg
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 8 February 2021 17: 47
                    -1
                    Russian nationalists in the DPR and LPR were not invaders, but defenders of the Russian people ...

                    Oh, damn it! It turns out that there are good Nazis too! laughing Well, ma'am, you give! What is logic do you know? I somehow doubt it ...
                    ... who ... dream of conquering Russia - right up to the Pacific Ocean.

                    Precisely to Quiet? laughing
                    What do you know about the Finns

                    I know enough. I know, for example, that they were sold a license for the production of AKs, they were selling tanks and combat aircraft, so what?
                    with your beliefs

                    Is it not necessary about my beliefs, or did you decide that I am seriously discussing with you here? I don’t argue with children, an empty exercise.
                    And the memorial plaque to Mannerheim is politics, like the Star of the Hero of the Soviet Union was once to Hitler's ally Nasser, and politics is a dirty thing. Didn't you know that? smile
                  2. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 8 February 2021 18: 37
                    +1
                    Quote: Sea Cat
                    It turns out that there are good Nazis too! Well, ma'am, you give! What is logic do you know? I somehow doubt it ...

                    The word "natsik" has long been a youth slang - short for the word "nationalist".
                    However, "nazik", as it happened, is used in a radical nationalist environment and means that this is a Nazi - a Nazi.
                    At the same time, the concept of nationalism is deliberately distorted, replacing it with Nazism.
                    This is done deliberately - when the national identity of the Russian people is extremely disadvantageous to the ruling class, for example, in Ukraine.
                  3. Catfish
                    Catfish 8 February 2021 18: 53
                    0
                    On the national identity of the Russian people, if possible, in more detail. And let's talk about our country, Ukraine is a separate topic.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 7 February 2021 20: 36
    +5
    Quote: LiSiCyn
    Ukroina saw no danger for civilian airliners flying at high altitude

    precisely because
    Quote: LiSiCyn
    they knew for sure that the militia did not have air defense systems operating at such heights.

    Though. if they read our newspapers and looked at the box, they should have done it


    1. FrankyStein
      FrankyStein 7 February 2021 22: 02
      +12
      There was only a broken-down launcher, there was no beech, the Ukrainians took everything out, leaving only trash. I have a question, was it really possible to hide an air defense system such as a beech in the DNR? The Gringos were looking for Russian troops, ransacking including the border territory of the Russian Federation, they even found traces of the MLRS, but the beech and its work are not there? At the same time, for some reason, everyone is silent about the fact that the Ukrainians literally in a week or two drove a convoy with beeches to the Donbass. Their media covered it for sure, I saw the report myself. At what they drove from the west, like from Volyn, now I don't remember exactly. Apot a fragment with a number was, just from the same part, Volyn. After all, two puzzles came together, and no one focuses on this.
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 7 February 2021 22: 28
        -1
        The prosecution in the court has already covered these issues, but no one focuses on this. I will not either - practice shows that comments on this topic are accepted only as a button with a minus.
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 8 February 2021 13: 04
        +4
        the photo is the same, the signatures are different:
        kind beech in Ukraine protects
        and the evil beech in the Donbas aggressively knocks down
        that's all.
        the first was shown 1 time, the second 1000 times, the reality changed.
        and do not care about logic - the reality is that shout louder.
  • Achilles
    Achilles 8 February 2021 13: 00
    -1
    The picture with a rocket exploding near the cockpit is embarrassing, don't the rockets fly to the engines? In general, this picture is complete nonsense
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 8 February 2021 17: 31
    0
    Quote: LiSiCyn
    I wonder if you really have to take Kiev to prove your innocence

    I'm afraid you won't get away with Kiev alone. Reason and answers, far west. And Kiev, that Kiev, he does not decide anything, there are lackeys. The most interesting thing is that everyone knows the truth, but some (the democratic west) make their face a brick. But "no matter how long the string twists, the end will still be."
  • uralant
    uralant 9 February 2021 10: 57
    0
    Quote: LiSiCyn
    Thus, they knew for sure that the militia did not have air defense systems operating at such heights.
    I wonder if you really have to take Kiev to prove your innocence

    What for? This is no longer indirect, but direct evidence of the guilt of dill. Disservice. And they rejoice in dill ... so there the pans are empty!
  • Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 7 February 2021 17: 17
    +2
    Quote: Hunter 2
    if it gets there - ask for a comment

    He will not have time for comments. Trusel urgently needs to be changed
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 7 February 2021 17: 19
    +1
    Quote: Hunter 2
    I wish the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands - to fly over the war zone, if it arrives - ask for a comment

    And to all his European and Ukrainian colleagues, who believed in the delirium of the smoked "Afghan" minister of the Netherlands.
  • New Year day
    New Year day 7 February 2021 20: 57
    +5
    Quote: Hunter 2
    Just some sort of looking glass!

    that's for sure!
    The introduction of a no-fly zone over the LC and the DPR of Russia is too tough?
    https://topwar.ru/50512-vvedenie-bespoletnoy-zony-nad-lnr-i-dnr-rossii-ne-po-zubam.html
    The right to ban flights, including for military reasons, gives the participating countries Art. 9 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation. However, the responsibility for introducing special safety measures lies with the country responsible for providing air traffic services in the airspace affected by the conflict.
    Ukraine closed the airspace over the conflict zone for civil aviation from July 1 to FL260 (7900 meters), and from July 14 to FL320 (9750 meters). The European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation indicated that on the liner's route, the space was closed by the Ukrainian authorities up to FL320, and at FL330 (10 meters), on which the aircraft was traveling, flights were allowed.
    At the same time, on July 17 (17 hours before the crash of flight MH17), Russia imposed restrictions on civil aviation flights in the Russian airspace adjacent to Ukraine up to an altitude of more than 16 meters (up to FL000).
    Echelon FL330 (10 meters) was out of reach of the available air defense on both sides
  • 210ox
    210ox 7 February 2021 15: 49
    +17
    This is a note to airlines that continue to fly above and around Kiev losses. Soviet-made air defense systems have a decent range.
  • Finches
    Finches 7 February 2021 16: 04
    +8
    Eco unseen! That this Bloc, that Zelensky gets a salary in one box office ... And all the other state "democratic" institutions, such as parliaments and courts in these states are just a screen for the layman - in Holland, like a screen, and in Ukraine in general from those in power no one even cares to hide that they are ordinary sixes of the American State Department!
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 7 February 2021 17: 21
      +4
      Quote: Finches
      and in Ukraine, in general, from the powers that be, no one even cares to hide that they are ordinary sixes of the American State Department!

      And they are even proud of it
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 7 February 2021 21: 10
        +3
        Quote: Lipchanin
        even proud of it

        As Zhvanetsky said: If you get licked, don't relax - it could be a lube ....
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 February 2021 17: 21
      +4
      Quote: Finches
      That this Blok, that Zelensky, they receive a salary in one cash office ...

      Only the Dutch Bloc has more wage zeros than Zelensky, who has become Ukrainian.
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 7 February 2021 23: 06
    0
    In general, Putin shot him down over Russia and then the damaged Boeing flew to Novorossiya laughing
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 7 February 2021 15: 40
    +13
    The culprit has already been appointed, everything is being faked.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 7 February 2021 15: 54
      -7
      And if we had shot down the plane, it would be all the more not to blame, because an aircraft was moving in our direction in the combat zone, it has the right to classify it as a combat one, and therefore destroy it.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. 1976AG
          1976AG 7 February 2021 18: 54
          +13
          No, Vitaly, you shot down the plane and there is enough evidence of this. The rebels have neither Buks nor aircraft, so you don't have to shift your blame onto others. You are not used to lying for a long time and this is not the first civilian plane shot down by your air defense. And how the then president of Ukraine argued that the Ukrainian air defense had nothing to do with it !!! So you have experience in lying and shooting down civilian planes. About Russian troops in Crimea
          Putin always said that they are there. There is our naval base and it's all official. But you are lying that our army is in the Donbass. Nobody really saw her, but you think she is there. And you think that you are at war in the Donbass with our army. In Crimea, for some reason you are not fighting with our army, but in the Donbass you are fighting. Why? Or is it scary to pry into the Crimea, because our army is definitely there? So it's time to admit that you are lying and finally admit that the Boeing was shot down by the Ukrainian army. Albeit by mistake. Well, about the medal, too, stop lying. However, you have already lied so much that no one believes you for a long time.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. 1976AG
              1976AG 7 February 2021 20: 06
              +8
              In this video, Putin speaks about the absence of our military in those areas that were taken under the control of the self-defense forces of Crimea, and not about the absence of our military in Crimea in general. Our base in Crimea has always been, and therefore the units that guarded it were also. So they are two different things. According to the medal, I just can't find the date of its minting, maybe I became blind. The paratroopers are also living people. Of course we got lost. If you didn't get lost - figs you would know about them.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. 1976AG
                  1976AG 7 February 2021 20: 51
                  +5
                  What do you think, the protection of objects in peacetime is one thing, but when force is expected, it is quite another. Of course, taking into account the situation, additional forces were deployed. This not normal ? Maybe someone would have acted differently? Or maybe it was necessary to pretend that there were no threats and sit back?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. 1976AG
                      1976AG 7 February 2021 21: 38
                      +9
                      1. Are you saying that the Russians captured the Russians? We protected our own. Here in the Donbass yours are not, so you cannot just enter that territory. Our units entered the Crimea freely. And the population was glad that now they were under protection. Where was the fighting? The overwhelming majority of the military in Crimea went over to our side, the rest went to Ukraine safe and sound. Crimea historically has always been Russian. About the GRU special forces. Maybe Putin should have warned the Ukrainian elite in advance that we are going to introduce additional forces to protect the population and our military facilities?
                      2. Seized the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea ?? What is it like ? Burst in, put everyone on the floor and paralyzed his work? But, no, it turns out they checked the documents, made sure that these were the legitimate representatives of the authorities, and not the ukronationalists, and they continued to work further.
                      "according to the" Kharkov "agreement on the stationing of the Black Sea Fleet between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, the presence of the GRU special forces was not provided for"

                      According to the Kharkov agreement, the coup in Ukraine, as a result of which the accomplices of the fascists came to power, was also not envisaged.
                      But you should understand something else. Your society has split not because Russia is bad, but because there was a coup, accomplices of the fascists came to power and the oppression of those who rebelled against it began. Until you understand this, you will not understand the rest.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. 1976AG
                        1976AG 7 February 2021 22: 11
                        +5
                        This is a pro-fascist regime in today's Ukraine. It is YOUR natsbats with a swastika who arrange torchlight processions. It was your Nazis who burned unarmed people in the House of Trade Unions on May 1. You can still enumerate, but that's enough. First, bring the perpetrators to justice. Put them behind bars. Then we'll talk about morality. And for every Russian, the fight against fascism is a sacred cause!
                      3. 1976AG
                        1976AG 7 February 2021 22: 16
                        +1
                        By the way, about the medal, where is the minting date?
                      4. 1976AG
                        1976AG 7 February 2021 22: 22
                        0
                        I watched the video on your link. I have never justified such people. Such weapons cannot be trusted. But I have never heard that they are going to erect a monument to him in Russia. If they do, tell me where they put it.
          2. 1976AG
            1976AG 7 February 2021 20: 21
            +3
            "(drove a couple of hundred kilometers in a foreign country in densely populated areas and did not even notice it, despite the fact that all the road signs and signs with the names of settlements they passed by were in Ukrainian)."
            Yeah, specially we drove from no one hiding, so that you would know about them))
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. 1976AG
                1976AG 7 February 2021 22: 31
                +2
                Erofeev and Alexandrov? Yes, under torture you can say anything you want. Where is the evidence that it is they and that they are serving in the Russian army? Now in the media fakes are like dirt. But the murder of people in the House of Trade Unions is an indisputable fact, but you don't want to talk about this, do you?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Alex Nevs
            Alex Nevs 7 February 2021 20: 25
            +2
            Yes, what can you argue about? Have you seen the parade? IN DONETSK with IRRIGATION! De horse parade? Dumb. For they put the horses in the stall (MINSK), and bleat slowly there. And YOU are true, not true, like little children in the locker room .... And about the troops, so here are ALL RUSSIANS. And you are looking for straw in a haystack.
          4. mole
            mole 7 February 2021 20: 35
            0
            Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
            So it's not Putin in this video?
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKm7uxK8ws

            By the medal - look when it was minted, look at the date.

            On the military in the Donbass - a video in which a dozen captured Russian paratroopers (Putin later said that they got lost) will you find aphids yourself a link to a press conference to give?
            By the way, what kind of Airborne Forces in Russia is that the paratroopers are completely unable to navigate the terrain (they drove a couple of hundred kilometers across a foreign country in densely populated areas and did not even notice it, despite the fact that all road signs and signs with the names of settlements which they passed by were in Ukrainian).

            Okay, you're three times right, but what difference does that make?
            What will you do first of all by returning Crimea, DPR and DPR?
            Why do you need these regions? Pralno-only for looting, pumping resources to the West. Ukraine and its sponsors. But definitely not the development of the regions.
            Look already, repent before it's too late, maybe you will be more whole !!!
            1. 1976AG
              1976AG 7 February 2021 20: 42
              +3
              "What will you do first of all by returning Crimea, DPR and DPR?"

              The first step is to begin to deal with the unwanted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. New Year day
          New Year day 7 February 2021 21: 00
          +10
          Quote: 1976AG
          The rebels have no Buk

      2. Alexander Seklitsky
        Alexander Seklitsky 7 February 2021 19: 14
        +8
        Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
        instantly reported that the soldiers had shot down another Ukrop transport worker.

        And he was really shot down.
        Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
        Is it equipped with butterfly-shaped striking elements, if missiles with these striking elements have NEVER been delivered to Ukraine?
        By the way, what about the "absolutely true" statement about the Ukrop SU-24 and the pilot Voloshin? It turns out that "Almaz-Antey" blatantly lied and the plane was not shot down by an air-to-air missile (as the Almaz-Antey specialists claimed.

        Well, they all gathered in a heap. Let's start with the fact that the specialists of Almaz-Antey just identified the missile and even its number, which was listed in the Ukrainian air defense. On the wreckage there are traces of an I-beam, not a butterfly. About SU 24, did you come up with this heresy yourself?
        Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
        What did you do safely - shot down the plane

        By what means was the plane shot down? The militias have never had high-altitude weapons. If you now start repeating nonsense about the delivered SDU, then I stumble you like a naughty kitten into your lies
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Alexander Seklitsky
            Alexander Seklitsky 7 February 2021 21: 13
            +5
            Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
            Did you find any striking butterfly-shaped elements in the bodies of passengers and aircraft elements?

            No, they weren't. In the bodies of passengers, for sure, because the cockpit was struck, in the iron there are marks from an I-beam, which is not in service with the Russian air defense.
            The full version of the Almaz-Antey presentation shown at the June 2 briefing consists of 53 slides and is divided into three parts. The document contains a detailed simulation of the encounter of the 9M38M1 missile of the Buk-M1 complex with an aircraft - a large number of exclusive photographs, diagrams, numbers and other information are given. Also in the document there is declassified data on what happens after the detonation of the warhead of a missile of this type and how the cloud of damaging elements spreads.



            The first part of the document specifies the type of missile, its warhead, and the name of the air defense complex. Almaz-Antey provides photographs showing the damage inflicted by a Buk-M1 missile on a special radio-controlled target during the tests. It is clearly seen that the damage received by the target and the Boeing is identical. It also provides a detailed diagram of the propagation of fragments of the 9M38M1 rocket - the so-called scalpel; specifies the type of striking elements, their number, the shape of the warhead and other parameters.

            In the second part of the presentation, detailed schemes of the distribution of damaging elements inside the aircraft are presented, in particular, the points of their hitting the skin and elements of the structural structure of the cockpit. Shown is the volume of the "cut" on the front of the aircraft, which was made by the "scalpel" of the missile complex "Buk-M1". Based on the analysis of the damage, the specialists of the concern determined how the rocket moved relative to the aircraft at the time of their meeting.

            In the third part, a simulation of the trajectory of a rocket is given and a conclusion is made about the proposed area where the air defense complex that launched the rocket was located.

            The analysis was carried out on the basis of materials from the preliminary report of the International Commission and information that is freely available.

            With the permission of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern, the full version of the presentation is published on the TASS website.

            As the general director of the concern Yan Novikov noted at a briefing at the beginning of last week, when the presentation was first presented to Russian and foreign journalists, the simulation of the Boeing accident shows that the concern's products were not involved in the crash of the Malaysian plane. The general director of the concern specified that in Russia the 9M38M1 rocket was removed from production back in 1999, while the concern itself was formed only in 2002.



            Well, where is the air, air and su 25 about the rocket? And most importantly, you still did not answer how the Boeing militias could shoot down at such a height
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. vitvit123
        vitvit123 7 February 2021 19: 29
        +5
        Of course, I never answer people with such convictions, I don't have to write much here ..
        The main thing in this question is to find who needed it? .. that's all. When I asked this question to Svidomo, they immediately blocked me and did not answer ... one of the basics to find the one who committed the crime is to find the one who needed it ...
        1. Alex Nevs
          Alex Nevs 7 February 2021 20: 30
          +4
          Yes, there is no persuasion, they use it in the dark and even darning will not help .... torn to holes and there is nowhere to put patches. And this child believes in EVERYTHING on the Internet. Homeless people are sorting through the trash can, and this dropout hawked everything on the Internet, and the opposite is being blocked. Stalin said with Hitler in Lvov, they ruled - that's it !!! ... you can't cut it out.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. 1976AG
              1976AG 7 February 2021 20: 56
              +4
              Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
              Do you deny the fact of a joint parade of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht in Brest?
              Wasn't there the same training for Luftwaffe officers in Lipetsk?
              And German tankers in the USSR were not trained in the same way?

              Do you deny that Bandera was an accomplice of the Nazis?
            2. Zefr
              Zefr 7 February 2021 21: 28
              +5
              Do you know that Gaddafi went to visit Macron? And he called him best friend?
              And how did it turn out that Gaddafi is the worst enemy of humanity?
              Are you a madman who does not distinguish between past and future tenses? The war began seventeen years after an agreement with Germany for pilot training. Then not only was there no Hitler, there was not even the Weimar Republic. You have to be as dumb as you
              And Macron? Why did he support Gaddafi, why did he take money from him? And then he bombed it?
              And Bush? Why does he and Ben Laden have one family lawyer for two? And "Bin Laden" broke his towers. Let's bring Bush to justice, because he is clearly guilty.
              1. Leon68
                Leon68 8 February 2021 01: 10
                +2
                I am, wildly sorry! But it was not Macron that was there, but Sarkozy.
            3. Paranoid50
              Paranoid50 7 February 2021 23: 26
              +2
              Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
              the fact of the joint parade of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht in Brest?

              laughing laughing laughing Oh, another greasy hat pulled out. Already on the pixels they disassembled this moment, and yes, there was no parade, but only the transfer of the object.
              Quote: vitaliy.dominatus
              Luftwaffe officer training

              Carried around the benches, collected everything in a heap, and together with this heap right into a puddle. fellow
  • cniza
    cniza 7 February 2021 16: 31
    +1
    Quote: tralflot1832
    The culprit has already been appointed, everything is being faked.


    They try very hard, but it won't work ...
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 7 February 2021 17: 24
    +2
    Quote: tralflot1832
    The culprit has already been appointed, everything is being faked.

    As soon as the Ukrainian ATO shot down a Boeing, the guilty party was immediately appointed. There was little choice, Russia or Iran.
  • Irek
    Irek 7 February 2021 15: 51
    +7
    It looks like the Dutch are really addicted to hard drugs.
    1. Pessimist22
      Pessimist22 7 February 2021 16: 49
      +4
      They shit with their court specifically, and many intelligent countries and people saw it.
    2. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 7 February 2021 17: 22
      +2
      Quote: Irek
      really addicted to hard drugs.

      So zaluzhniki them from Afghan and drive him
  • anjey
    anjey 7 February 2021 15: 56
    +11
    Nonsense for the entire human rights world, any fair and independent court should first of all impute this guilt to Ukraine for the unsealed sky in the DB zone, not to mention the possible involvement in this crime.
    1. Holgerton
      Holgerton 7 February 2021 16: 29
      +1
      It is not clear only for what reason, since then it was believed that the militia did not have air defense systems capable of shooting down aircraft at altitudes of 5000+ m and there was no reason to believe otherwise and to assume a threat to civil aircraft, which is what the minister is talking about.
      There are already quite a lot of practitioners of civilian aircraft flying on echelon over such areas at the moment, take only Africa and the conflicts in Central Asia / Middle East.
      Therefore, "guilt for the unclosed sky" is still a controversial point, and full-fledged databases at that time were just unfolding about what they suspected then, because if it was considered otherwise, then ICAO or another organization responsible for this closed would be this area for flights bypassing the Ukrainian air traffic regulator.
      Here either we need to start applying similar measures to all similar zones in the world, or leave it as it is.
      In the meantime, we'll watch.
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 7 February 2021 17: 00
        0
        Quote: Holgerton
        It is not clear only for what reason

        For the reason that in that area the Ukrainian armed forces have already lost several flyers .. And one under very strange circumstances .. This is me about that transporter who fell in front of MH17 ... for several days, and he flew at an altitude unattainable for MANPADS and Strel10 .. militias.
        Considering the reaction of Donetsk people to this incend ..- fell? .. well, okay .. one less .. they had nothing to do with the fall of the Ukrainian truck ..
      2. anjey
        anjey 7 February 2021 17: 08
        +4
        Ukraine, a priori, has full-fledged air defense systems, in order to shoot down this side at any height, and the Lao PDR does not, even if Russia wanted to close the sky over Donbass and put up its complexes, then there would be Russian professionals and good aerial reconnaissance, climb in this dirty and criminal case of shooting down a civilian liner and to be guilty of the whole world, Russia, well, from the word at all, it was not necessary. But what can not be said about geopolitical Western opponents, together with their political and military puppets in Ukraine. it was just and profitable to crank this provocation and denigrate both the militias and Russia.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 7 February 2021 17: 30
          +2
          Quote: anjey
          But what can not be said about the geopolitical Western opponents, together with their political and military puppets in Ukraine.

          What to expect from them, if with the beginning of WWII, everyone quickly ran in a race to show their commitment to the "guy from Braunau."
        2. Holgerton
          Holgerton 7 February 2021 20: 28
          0
          Well, for the sake of general development, you should look at what the radar situation looks like from the control post of the Buk-M1 combat missile system, it is quite difficult to identify aircraft from them even for a prepared calculation, especially in a stressful environment (like 737 in the sky of Iran), for this, the complex includes a full-fledged detection radar, which, apparently, when shot down, deliberately (Ukraine, to minimize the risks of disclosure or the LDNR to substitute Ukraine) or unconsciously (LDNR, in the absence or impossibility of using at that time, or Ukraine, due to unprepared calculation / lack of workstation) did not use.
          And then history is silent, then new fragments are found, then fragments of the wrong system, then the missiles are taken to the wrong place, they present irrefutable facts that no one can then use, etc. etc.
          1. anjey
            anjey 7 February 2021 20: 42
            0
            So you yourself are confirming that the matter is clear, that it is a dark matter, who do you think is profitable? To substitute Ukraine? What is the point? In front of whom? Maidan Ukraine is a purely Western project. Is it not clear to you that the West rejects even the completely legitimate and aforementioned accusations, without touching on the fact of shooting down, which was predetermined in advance and the culprit was also appointed in advance.
            1. anjey
              anjey 7 February 2021 20: 54
              0
              But for the Russophobic vector of the West, this is just right, and by the hands of Novo Bandera lackeys, who are ready to commit any crimes in front of the owner, let us recall Khatyn and many other burned villages of Belarus.
      3. paw
        paw 7 February 2021 19: 52
        0
        I myself served at an artillery range where no air defense was firing, but still, during the overflights of civilian aircraft, shooting was strictly prohibited, even from small arms. The flight altitude of the aircraft is such that only the contrail is visible. Polygon near Brest near the village of Mukhovets.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 7 February 2021 16: 01
    +8
    They don't have an owl stretching over the globe. How long will the trial go on ... until the 404 finally collapses and there is no one to ask?
    1. cniza
      cniza 7 February 2021 16: 30
      +4
      It looks like this is exactly what will happen ...
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 February 2021 17: 32
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      How long will the trial go on ... until the 404 finally collapses and there is no one to ask?

      I think that in 10 years, both "four hundred and fourth" and the Hague court will disappear into oblivion.
  • pexotinec
    pexotinec 7 February 2021 16: 03
    +2
    How tired of this farce.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • cniza
    cniza 7 February 2021 16: 29
    +1
    According to Mr. Blok, the investigation "does not have sufficient evidence that the Ukrainian side had reason to see a threat to the flight of civilian airliners."


    Sick of the head, how much can you speculate on this topic ...
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 7 February 2021 16: 36
    -1
    There is such a term "criminal negligence" and whatever the Dutch say, this is exactly the case.
  • Hagen
    Hagen 7 February 2021 16: 51
    +2
    According to European tradition, the foreign policy of the Netherlands is governed by the head of state, King of the Netherlands Willem-Alexander. Accordingly, the foreign minister is the mouthpiece of the king. Any statements by figures of this magnitude on the topic of an unfinished investigation are nothing more than pressure on the investigation and justice. This is to the sometimes arising questions about "the commitment of European civilization to democracy and support for legal institutions." Once again, the Europeans have shown that something else has grown in place of "law". laughing
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 7 February 2021 17: 43
      +1
      Quote: Hagen
      Netherlands foreign policy is governed by the head of state, King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands. Accordingly, the foreign minister is the mouthpiece of the king.

      And what can be expected from a country with officially permitted drug use, where the prime minister has a man, his wife is also a man, and King Valka-Sanka has nothing to do with this.
      1. Hagen
        Hagen 7 February 2021 18: 05
        +2
        Quote: tihonmarine
        What can you expect from a country

        I have a suspicion that sober-minded citizens of Russia are no longer under the illusion that it is possible to build some kind of equal productive mutually beneficial relations with the West. They have never been our consistent allies, and the last couple of centuries have been unequivocal enemies (hidden and explicit). I think the more they smoke weed there and create incapable of procreation "cells", the sooner their kingdoms will turn into emirates and caliphates. That's where they go.
        1. three
          three 7 February 2021 20: 11
          +3
          And this is the only correct conclusion from all this joke-joke ... The West is the enemy, our Foreign Ministry needs to shout this in the face of every American-European official. Stop playing rattles ... And do not express yourself so floridly. Directly, head-on, without bluntness and guesswork, especially metaphors, which Zakharova sometimes abounds in. We understand this, they do not. Do not "on the impudent red face", it is necessary - "and you, the fox, we will fiddle." How to shorten the anecdote.
  • poquello
    poquello 7 February 2021 16: 56
    +5
    Dutch minister said - the Dutch court did very interesting.
    "There is not enough evidence that the Ukrainian side had reason to see a threat to the flight of civilian airliners."
    beeches in the OBD area, active military aviation is not a reason)))))))))))))))))))))
  • NF68
    NF68 7 February 2021 17: 10
    +1
    All clear. And here Russia is to blame.
  • A_Lex
    A_Lex 7 February 2021 17: 26
    +1
    According to the head of the Netherlands' foreign ministry, "there is no reason to accuse Ukraine of not closing the airspace over Donbass in due time."


    Actually, this was already clear from the beginning. Closing or opening airspace does not automatically lead to disaster by itself. The immediate cause of the disaster in this particular case was a rocket, which did not necessarily have to rush towards this particular aircraft. Ultimately, the source of an act of violence is the perpetrator. I emphasize - not the cause, because the reasons can be different, but the source.

    The argument "would have closed the space, the plane would not have been able to fly and could not have been brought down" is essentially similar to the argument "if the girl had not put on a short skirt, she would not have been raped." Those. a short skirt in this case in itself can be and is a provoking factor, but the decision to commit an act of violence is made by a specific person consciously. I emphasize - first comes desire, after which a person makes a conscious decision to satisfy his desire. At the same time, a person is again consciously able to control his desires and the desires of a person are not insurmountable for him.
  • Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 7 February 2021 17: 33
    +1
    In all this "kitchen" I am personally interested in one simple question.
    And when will these very battles finally end there?
    What year will the "volitional decision" take place?
    This is a simple question. He suggests a simple answer.
    Well, relatively simple. But intelligible ...
    How long can you mock people?
    Bucha was raised, then into the bushes. I don’t know anything, they’re the ones who’re busting ...
    1. vitvit123
      vitvit123 7 February 2021 19: 38
      0
      One of the factors for the fact that this "bucha" continues is the suction of resources from the Ukrainian economy (perhaps) ... no matter how cynical it is .. maybe our strategists want the people on the territory of Ukraine to live badly and thus to destroy the country, and attach some areas to itself, i.e. waiting for the people to get it through the "stomach" .. and, as you know, war is a bottomless barrel for any economy except the American ..
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 7 February 2021 20: 32
        +2
        The calculation for such a situation took place in the fourteenth year.
        Further life has shown that either - forward!
        Either back (yes, it's too late, Crimea is ours)
        Backing up with the Crimea without a fierce loss of face will not work ...
        It will look worse than Tsushima.
        It will be a complete fiasco! ...
        1. vitvit123
          vitvit123 7 February 2021 20: 41
          +1
          Probably very hard forward, but backward is unrealistic, there will be a disaster. and why there is no situation "still in place" and we are sucking resources from the Ukrainian economy. They have a lot of money for this war. This cannot go on for long. For Russia, the war in Chechnya was very costly to maintain, but for them I hope it is even more difficult. Yes, and LDNR, in my opinion, are more and more sailing towards us (although I have not been there) and there is no return for them .. but we need to take a few more areas. As an option ..
          1. Petrol cutter
            Petrol cutter 7 February 2021 21: 04
            +1
            It is clear that forward will be harsh.
            But as they once taught me: if you already said A ... then speak B ...
            1. vitvit123
              vitvit123 8 February 2021 07: 50
              0
              Well, situations are different ... one thing speaks only for itself and sometimes you need to think, another thing when 150 million (Country) is behind you. And people today will shout with joy, and tomorrow you (figuratively)
              For this on the chopping block ..
      2. Avior
        Avior 7 February 2021 21: 08
        0
        It is bad, unfortunately, while living on the territory of the LPNR
        For them, this looks especially contrasting, since under Ukraine they were the highest paid region, and this situation in that part of the Donetsk region that remained under Ukraine is quite preserved.
  • Rose capone
    Rose capone 7 February 2021 17: 55
    +1
    Kaklovoisko - recidivists in the destruction of civilian aircraft over the zones of exercises and military operations. This American puppet, the Dutch minister, forgot the DESTRUCTION of the Russian Tu-154 over the Black Sea, which took place on Thursday October 4, 2001. Airliner Tu-154M of Siberia Airlines. Here are the corrupt hirelings of the State Department. By the way, when NASA makes it happy with its aerospace evidence, who exactly shot down the Boeing. After all, until now, they do not show anyone !!! And the meager conclusions of the American-Dutch Petrushka REFUTE the facts: A few days before the disaster, according to the statements of the Ukrainian authorities, there were other incidents with aircraft in the conflict zone: on July 14, An-6,5, 26 was shot down in the Luhansk region at an altitude of 16 kilometers July was shot down by a Su-25 and another Su-25 was fired upon from MANPADS. In total, in June-July 2014, more than ten manned aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force were reported to have been lost in this area.
  • Elena Akinfieva
    Elena Akinfieva 7 February 2021 19: 10
    +2
    I hope there will be a time when there is no netherlands
    1. Alex Nevs
      Alex Nevs 7 February 2021 20: 33
      0
      Dy die out on the sly .... For two popes do not conceive.
  • Tarasios
    Tarasios 7 February 2021 19: 14
    0
    Well, if you follow this logic: since "there was no reason to see a threat to the flight of civilian airliners," therefore, the tragedy that occurred is a typical accident. Hence - no one is to blame. And if so, why was Russia appointed as the last one?
  • svoit
    svoit 7 February 2021 19: 34
    -1
    Quote: Tarasios
    ... And if so, why was Russia appointed as the last one?

    Have you already appointed them? It seems that several people are still suspected. And if the DPR would have acted like Iran, then this story would have been forgotten long ago
    1. Reiter
      Reiter 8 February 2021 00: 52
      +1
      Do you think they live in full de.b.ly to take on someone else's crime? By the way, this will also be a crime, since later it will be difficult to conduct a real trial and jail real criminals. It's all upside down for you, two dads in the family and two mothers and in general there are no sexes. By the way, what about Ukraine, did you pay everything for the Tu-154? It seems like not all. Does the US not want to take on 9/11? Or is it just tolerated Russia should take on all the sins of the whole world and pay and repent, your face will not crack? You will soon say that the USSR attacked Hitler and dropped atomic bombs on Japan. After this statement from the Netherlands, you can already go directly to x. send, you have already said everything about the so-called honest western justice. And the babble about the fact that Strelkov blurted out there, it’s just ridiculous to take it as an argument, someone told him that someone called him, that they saw that the plane fell, hurray, it’s probably dropped again. This is how everyone spread then a fake about a crucified boy, someone with a specialist dropped the fake and everyone believed, so did Strelkov. Crap keeps repeating the same thing. Where is the dispatcher, what's wrong with Voloshin, for which he received the hero of Ukraine at that time, why did he so abruptly cut himself off? What is there about RTR, that he and Voloshin sharply changed his mind at the same time? Ukraine removes the witnesses, but Russia must admit the blame, the logic is super!
  • iouris
    iouris 7 February 2021 19: 43
    +1
    What you should know. This trial was arranged for the disintegration of the Russian Federation. The state, accused by the "West" of destroying a civilian aircraft, is destroyed (examples: USSR and Libya). The decision will be made when "the revolution wins" in Moscow. But somehow she doesn't win. Therefore, the issuance of the "decision" by the court is postponed all the time.
    If Ukraine is found out of suspicion, then the Dutch are the only suspects. This means that the plane was blown up.
    And which Malaysian plane went missing over the Indian Ocean? Isn't it the same?
  • APASUS
    APASUS 7 February 2021 20: 21
    +1
    Still, the West has an interesting JURISPRUDENCE.
    The perpetrators are appointed, the investigation is led by a possible culprit, the main argument is highley likely, miracles!
  • Uma palata
    Uma palata 7 February 2021 20: 26
    0
    Europeans have become prohibitively impudent. And our gas workers diligently go there, under wild humiliation, pull the gas pipeline, persuade them. Maybe somehow use gas as a club for Euroshawks ..? They already do what they want and do. We have such a tool for persuasion and for stopping the flow of lies to Russia, well, how is it, I don’t understand, how much can you wrap around? Yes, from the very beginning it was clear that it was not ours who shot down the unfortunate Boeing, but the pigs under the leadership of their owners, specially shot down in order to accuse Russia and then spread rot. The Jews therefore become impudent unrestrained, because they know about complete gas impunity. Yes, and their winter is funny, not real, and it will end in half a month for them already.
  • Private SA
    Private SA 7 February 2021 20: 33
    0
    Well, the European government official is not Admiral Yamamoto, who according to the versions knew
    that he will not return from the flight, but flew. Modern military over his country
    actions since the bombing of Rotterdam by the Luftwaffe have not been committed ....
    "The dog barks - the wind carries." Russian proverb ...
  • tranquil
    tranquil 7 February 2021 20: 54
    0
    Unfortunately, nothing surprising. These Western lovers of democracy and the closure of three TV channels in Ukraine are called "the struggle for freedom of speech." In their primitive hatred of Russia, black, if necessary, will turn white.
  • mole
    mole 7 February 2021 20: 55
    +2
    Quote: vitaliy.dominatus

    You denied the presence of the Russian military in Crimea in 2014 (later it turned out that you, or rather V.V.Putin, were simply lying).

    You never lied ???
    V.V. Putin all the same the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. His task is to gain, not to lose. It is not part of his plans to tell everyone about his actions.
    Civilians suffered from the actions of the RF Armed Forces? Not.
    Have there been war crimes? Not!
    Just don't start a hurdy-gurdy about Boeing. The Dutch are more perspicacious of you, otherwise they would have passed the verdict. They seem to smell
    (know) about sewing with white thread.
  • Reiter
    Reiter 7 February 2021 21: 14
    +3
    Actually, the news is simply excellent, further it is possible not to investigate those who at least somehow can think logically. The Netherlands made a great fork with this decision. The Netherlands' decisions are based on a 176-page report prepared by the Aviation Safety Foundation, which analyzed 34 civil aircraft crashes over conflict zones. One of the findings of independent experts is that insufficient evidence has been established to indicate that the Ukrainian authorities responsible at that time for flight safety over eastern Ukraine were aware or could have been aware of the threat to civil aviation above that part of the airspace. which has already been closed. On the basis of this conclusion, the government said on Friday that "it sees no reason to revise the previously outlined position that at the moment there is no sufficient reason to hold Ukraine accountable for incomplete closure of the airspace." The options are as follows:
    - Or the Netherlands is not aware of cases of destruction of aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine above the upper zone of destruction of MANPADS, Strela-10, Osa AKM, which could really be in service with the militia. Then the question of the competence of the Dutch justice and their experts. Because, according to Ukraine, on July 14 (a couple of days before MH-17), they were allegedly shot down at an altitude of 6-2-6.5 km An-26. Which automatically means that he could have been shot down by something more powerful than Arrows and Wasps. And everything that is more powerful than Eric's air defense systems, it can already shoot down 10 km too!
    - Either the Ukrainian Armed Forces lied about such a height and could not provide evidence that the An-26 was shot down at that altitude, or they refused to request the Dutch, no, they did not shoot us down at that altitude. Everything was within 3.5-4 km. Hence, if they did not shoot down and this is true, then the statement of Ukraine two days before the MH-17 disaster speaks of a prepared special operation, where it was necessary to create a system of events - the preparation of public opinion, that they were shot down once, and then again. The plot of a series of events is important, the first one is exactly the militia shot down and the second means the same, and if there was no downing of the An-26, we can say that it is unknown who shot down. And it was necessary to consider a bunch of other versions, which was clearly not in the interests of the West. And if they did not lie and were shot down at such an altitude, and the Dutch are well aware of this and that equipment that shoot down at 6.5 km and shoot at 10 km, then it turns out that they cover Ukraine, act not objectively and biased and do not can be judges in this matter. Bingo!
    1. tolmachiev51
      tolmachiev51 8 February 2021 03: 35
      0
      What logic can there be in the investigation !? - The order has arrived. The money has been taken. must be done !!! The swine deed is done -Russia sanctions. The dead are really to one place.
  • Paldiski
    Paldiski 7 February 2021 21: 46
    +2
    It's time for the Netherlands to ban soft drugs wassat
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 7 February 2021 22: 24
    0
    It is necessary for Russia, together with the victims, to conduct an independent investigation and at the same time attract this false court there.
  • notingem
    notingem 7 February 2021 22: 44
    0
    Dutch minister. Type Hedgehog in the fog or mushroom teapot
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 7 February 2021 23: 06
    +3
    "8). We must create an incident that convincingly demonstrates that a Cuban fighter jet attacked and shot down a chartered civilian aircraft en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama, or Venezuela. The direction of the flight must be chosen so that it passes through Cuba. Passengers on the flight must represent a group of college students on vacation, or another group of people united by common interests, to justify the need for a charter flight ... "(Item of the Northwoods plan, planned in 1962 by the US Department of Defense). what The funerals act according to templates, according to templates. Only the militia did not have a fighter. Therefore, apparently changed to an air defense system.
    1. Reiter
      Reiter 7 February 2021 23: 50
      +2
      Yes, the Netherlands should be thanked for such a shot in the leg. They are
      logically substantiated two possible options for withdrawing from their conclusion:
      1) the destruction of MH-17 is a special operation, the second at least was attended by the official authorities of Ukraine;
      2) have discharged their incompetence and bias in this case.

      Now they have to clarify which of these two options they had in mind. For me both are so true.
  • Klingon
    Klingon 8 February 2021 00: 35
    0
    so let him fly over the "Saratov" over the broads wassat
  • Alexey from Perm
    Alexey from Perm 8 February 2021 01: 34
    +1
    so, who shot down the Boeing?
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 8 February 2021 03: 25
    +1
    Dutch Podberezovikov - "he is certainly to blame, but he is not to blame !!!" Another "blizzard" - these are the "investigators."
  • Orca
    Orca 8 February 2021 04: 59
    +2
    Quote: LiSiCyn
    I wonder if you really have to take Kiev to prove your innocence.

    Not the first time from there to knock out any evil spirits that have settled there. yes
  • prior
    prior 8 February 2021 11: 20
    +2
    It turns out that there is no reason to sympathize with the relatives of those killed in the plane crash, since "There is no reason to accuse Ukraine of not closing the airspace over Donbass in due time."
    Ukraine has the right to allow flights over Donbass and beyond.
    We invite the entire Hague court to take part in an exciting flight on a Malaysian Boeing directly over the crash site of flight MH-17.
  • Vyacheslav34
    Vyacheslav34 8 February 2021 11: 28
    +1
    It's just that a huge amount of marijuana is brought from Ukraine. and if they are declared guilty, then the Ukrainians will simply close the channel of legalization and delivery of marijuana to Holland, which will cause a jump in prices for this miraculous means of seeing the world and the government will collapse.
  • Serg662
    Serg662 8 February 2021 12: 19
    +1
    [quote = military_cat] He just recounted the ICAO decision of 2015, which blamed Malaysia Airlines for choosing the dangerous route, and Malaysia Airlines has already paid compensation to the families of the victims. [/
    All this is fine, but does not the state that provides its airspace for the transit flight of aircraft bear full and unconditional responsibility for the safety of these very aircraft over its territory?
    1. Avior
      Avior 8 February 2021 18: 22
      -3
      Carries in the scope of compliance with the requirements and recommendations of the Chicago Air Traffic Convention. It is not complete and unconditional.
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 8 February 2021 12: 50
    +1
    To some extent, he's right. Ukraine is not an independent entity, and such instructions were either not given to it or it was forbidden to do so at all.
  • Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 9 February 2021 13: 23
    0
    Quote: Sea Cat
    Russian nationalists in the DPR and LPR were not invaders, but defenders of the Russian


    That's right!

    But now the Zionists will run up and accuse you of anisemism and complicity in the oppression of Jewry.
    According to their precepts, nationalists can only be an ode to the nation, and all other Cossacks are anti-Semites.
  • Hiller
    Hiller 9 February 2021 20: 18
    +1
    I smoked in a coffee shop and there was no reason ...