Military Review

The ballad about the famous "Winchester": new cartridges, new weapons ...

102
The ballad about the famous "Winchester": new cartridges, new weapons ...
John Wayne with Winchester in his hands in the 1956 movie "The Searchers"


"The yellow guy", "the gun that conquered the Wild West" - how much romance there are in these familiar names, and, in fact, the same weapons - Oliver Winchester's carbine, which became a further development of Tyler Henry's rifle, to which only the invention of Nelson King was added ...

Lubricate both Colts well
Winchester lubricated well
And go on the road, because
Has taken a whim into your head.
Let's go, okay, what's there.
And there, even on horseback, even on foot -
I swear by the bloodthirsty coyote -
We will come to something.
("The Man from the Boulevard des Capucines", Julius Kim)

Weapons and firms. I wonder how the colonel's son, sitting on horseback, at a gallop managed to shoot Kamala two times in a row, but then did not shoot again? If it was a revolver, say, Trenter's revolver, then ... it is not clear what prevented him from firing three more times, and if it was a rifle, then it was necessary to be a virtuoso to reload it in such conditions. Therefore, most likely, the described case indicates that in his hands was Jacob's carbine - a double-barreled rifled primer rifle, which was a weapon of the British colonial troops in India, model 1856. She fired sharp-pointed Minier bullets or even explosive bullets containing a charge from mercury or lead azide. The range of this rifle reached two thousand yards (1828 m), and most importantly, it had two barrels!


Nelson King patent 1866

The more often the better!


That is, people already understood that the more charges in a weapon, the more chances a shooter has in a critical situation, if not from the first shot, but from the third, to hit the target.


Winchester 1866, but already chambered for centerfire .44-40 Winchester (44WCF). Photo by Alain Daubresse

Therefore, the success of the guns of Henry and Spencer in the United States was quite predictable. What was bad about them? The presence of a very complex loading system. So when Oliver Winchester put King's "royal innovation" on Henry's rifle, the market got exactly the weapon it needed. This is how the popular Winchester model of the 1866 rifle appeared. The ad claimed that a skilled shooter could empty her magazine in 15 seconds. Thus, we can say that its rate of fire was about 60 rounds per minute.


Bayonet for this rifle. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Bayonet handle. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Several countries, including the Ottoman Empire and France, made official or unofficial purchases of the 1866 model, so this rifle had to fight. Thus, the Ottomans purchased 45 muskets and 000 carbines in 5 and 000 and used them during the siege of Plevna (1870), as a result of which the Russian army suffered heavy losses, including through the use of Winchester rifles, which, by the way, became a great advertisement for them. They say that if with their help the Turks managed to stop the Russian infantry going into a bayonet attack, then this is really a very worthwhile weapon. By the way, one such captured Winchester carbine is on display at the Museum of the Don Cossacks in Novocherkassk, but for a number of reasons it was not possible to get a photo of it.


Brass receiver. Photo by Alain Daubresse


Window in the receiver for ejection of spent cartridges. Photo by Alain Daubresse

From "musket" to carbine


The 1866 model rifle was produced in a long-barreled version - "musket" and a short-barreled version - a carbine. Of the 14 issued muskets of the 000 model, 1866 had a nozzle on the barrel for attaching a blade bayonet. Carbines, of course, had no bayonet mounts.


This photo clearly shows the "mirror" of the shutter - on it the "tooth" of the extractor and two strikers at once, which indicates that this shutter is used with rimfire cartridges. Photo by Alain Daubresse

I must say that Oliver Winchester did everything possible to get the maximum profit from this rifle. First, the receiver on it was made of brass (which is why it was called the "yellow guy"), it was cast, and then brought to the desired size by hand. And at that time it was cheaper than producing the same thing from steel, only for this it was necessary to purchase machine tools.


Aim. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Secondly, the design, designed for the same cartridge as the Henry rifle, had the same bolt open from above, but King's “door” was placed on a removable “cheek” of the receiver, but to make it less wear out, they made it out of steel, and at the same time with the spring in one piece!


The extractor spring on the bolt is clearly visible and ... the shadow of the ring that the cavalry carbines had. Photo by Alain Daubresse

The cartridge was the same: .44 (11mm) rimfire, 28 grains of black powder and 200 grains of pure lead lead poly (one troy grain weighs 64,79891 mg).


"Side fire" cartridges of .44 and .32 caliber. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Thus, the whole difference was in the loading system through the King's "door" and ... that's it! The store could fit from 13 to 15 cartridges, which at that time was just an excellent indicator.


Winchester 1873 chambered for centerfire .44-40 (WCF). Photo by Alain Daubresse

The best dominates the market!


So the new Winchester rifle simply could not displace all other samples, and it did replace them. In addition, it was durable, was not sensitive to pollution and had good accuracy at close range. By the way, it is because of this that the American army did not accept this rifle for service. Although the very high price also played a role, since the American army in the XNUMXth century was sitting on a real hunger ration.

Winchester, going towards consumers, increased the power of the cartridge - the sleeve was lengthened, and the powder charge was increased to .44-20. And later, an even stronger .44 cartridge, mark .44-30 was released (the charge of gunpowder is 30 grains, and the bullet is 220 grains).


The main external difference of the new model, in addition to the material of the receiver, was the cover of the hole for ejection of spent cartridges. Photo by Alain Daubresse

It is clear that Winchester's commercial success has become a truly inspiring example for American gunsmiths. And everyone, who is not too lazy, began to copy his "lever shutter". Moreover, if their creators did not use this system itself, then they made their rifle under the "Winchester" cartridge! This is how the guns of Frank-Wesson, Allen, Bollard, Remington, Howard, Robinson, Borges, and also Forchand and Wideford appeared.


Rifle bolt 1873 Photo by Alain Daubresse

New cartridge - new weapon!


However, by the late 1860s, rimfire cartridges for rifles were largely out of use. Centerfire cartridges became widespread, and Winchester immediately launched the legendary "Winchester" M1873 - "the gun that conquered the Wild West" under them. Outwardly, the difference was that the brass receiver on it was replaced with a steel one. The new .44-40 (10,7mm) cartridge, which was even longer and more powerful, was also a significant achievement, although it also did not impress the US Army Artillery Services, as they considered it too weak for military weapons.


Side guides and cartridge feeder, raised to the level of its ramming by the bolt into the barrel. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Winchester released a new gun in four versions: the first - a military one, which was eventually rejected by the army, the M1873 “musket”. The store held 15 rounds, the length was 110 cm, weight was 4 g. The bayonet was either a standard three-edged or a blade bayonet-cleaver.

The second was the carbine, which was called the "carbine, model 1873": it weighed less - 3 380 g, was shorter, which is why its magazine held only 11 rounds. In addition, a running ring was provided on the left of the receiver. The fore-end reached the middle of the barrel.

The third option is "sporting" (sports). Weight 3 830 g. Shop for 13 rounds.


The octagonal barrel of the sporting carbine. Photo by Alain Daubresse

The fourth - also sports, target, had an octagonal barrel, a butt with a pistol grip and a modified shape of the lever, weight 4 g. Magazine capacity - 175 rounds.

The accuracy of the shooting was very good: when shooting at 260 steps, all the bullets of one magazine fit into a circle with a diameter of 203 mm.

As a result, Winchester did not manage to convince the military that his weapons were "what they need." But on the other hand, the civilian market, on the contrary, reacted very favorably to the new cartridge and to the new weapon, so in 1878 the Colt company even released a number of its "Writers" chambered for .44-40. This revolver was named "Frontier Six Shooter". Well, as a hunting weapon and self-defense weapon, this Winchester model was bought very willingly, and was produced until 1919.

What do people like? Diversity!


In general, Winchester felt the market very well and knew how to adapt to it. Noticing that enough of his own “lethal weapon” had already been sold, he released lightweight versions of his carbine for target shooting and as a “tribute to fashion”. They differed only in caliber: they used .38 and .32 cartridges, which together gave him, counting in calibers, a line of 12 models! It was very convenient for buyers and, accordingly, profitable for him, the manufacturer.


The shutter also cocked the hammer when moving back, which was very convenient. Photo by Alain Daubresse

Then, already in 1876, a carbine was released chambered for .45 caliber, that is, 11,43 mm. It held 75 grains of gunpowder and a bullet weighing 860 grains. Weight was 3 g. Length - 690 cm. The store held 116,5 rounds.

The secret of spent cartridges ...


Interestingly, it was this gun of the 1873 model that caused the defeat of General Custer's detachment and the death of all his people in 1876. Moreover, today we know for sure that the Indians had such weapons. The fact is that bullets and casings from 41 types of weapons were found at the battle site. Even 17 cases from Caster's "Remington Sporting" carbine were found. They carried out a ballistic examination, and it turned out that 600-700 Indians had firearms. Of these, 300-400 soldiers had magazine rifles "Henry" and "Winchester", which by no means could have been war trophies. Although some of the soldiers, apparently, had only bows and arrows. The law actually prohibited the sale of such weapons to the Indians, and the punishment for violating it was quite severe. But ... who especially then obeyed the laws on the border with the Indian territory?

And the question immediately arose - where did the Indians have so much money to buy so many hard drives and cartridges for them, so that this became the reason for the defeat of a detachment of 266 soldiers, who were also quite well armed. True, in the 1991 film "The Son of the Morning Star" even such a trifle is shown as the fact that soldiers armed with single-shot Springfield carbines had to pick out the casings from their guns with knives, and this was really so. Such a defect has been noted. And this also influenced the rate of fire, while the Indians (and excavations at the site of the battle have confirmed this) literally bombarded the white soldiers with bullets from their Winchesters. And by the way, in the same film they even have Henry's rifles in their hands!


King's "door" on the 1873 Winchester Photo by Alain Daubresse

By the way, the question "where" is still open. In the movie "They died at their posts" or "They died in boots" (1941 film), it is Caster who prohibits the sale of Winchesters to the Indians at the fort, although in reality this was not. Liselotta Welskopf Heinrich in his novel "Toki Ito" (Trilogy "Sons of the Big Dipper") expresses his point of view on how this could have happened. My version of how the Dakota Indians got so many rapid-fire rifles is outlined in Men and Weapons. However, if no one has learned anything about this for so many years, then it is quite clear that we will no longer see the truth about this.


1873 Winchester advertisement

Oliver Winchester died in 1880. However, the arms company he created continued to exist and produced many more interesting weapons. But we will talk about them in our next article.

To be continued ...
Author:
102 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 12 February 2021 18: 05
    +9
    Well, finally, Positive! Vyacheslav Olegovich hi Respect! All day today, one holivar ...
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 12 February 2021 18: 20
      +7
      On YouTube there are some very interesting films about the investigation of Caster's last fight ... it, by the way, also tells how the rapid-fire weapon got into the hands of the Indians.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuswA8lQmVY
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HSVkY2p_ts

      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 29
        +5
        Colleague Snail, thanks for the video. It was interesting, but I have doubts about the vision: "Sitting Bull" that he saw many blue uniforms lying, perhaps it was his fiction to convince the doubters.
        In Vyacheslav Olegovich, I advise you to read his book "people and weapons", there is an episode when the "sun thunder", preparing to repulse horses from another tribe, "accidentally" promised the shaman a horse in case of success. Naturally, the shaman had a vision promising success.
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 February 2021 18: 36
      +7
      Hooray! Did they really endure until Friday evening's article!
      Vyacheslav Olegovich the photos are amazing! We are waiting for the continuation !!!
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 12 February 2021 19: 08
        +7
        By the way, there is a very strange, but interesting in the questions raised by her, the book of Michael Slade "Thug" https://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=92276 In it, the story of Colonel Custer rises from an unusual side .... Read , I advise (here is a small excerpt):
        Little Bighorn River Valley, Montana County

        Sunday, June 25, 1876 1:00 pm

        The arrow pierced his left eye, the feathered shaft deeply entered his head, the back, jerking, arched back, arms spread wide to the sides, and his horse reared up, throwing the soldier from the saddle to the ground, so that his bones crunched, straight under the feet of Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer.

        - Where the devil take him, Reno? Shouted Caster amid the increasing noise of the battle, turning around and blasting his Webley at the Cheyenne rushing towards him. The shot was successful.

        The Colonel stood at the crest of the hill north of Medsin Tail Kuuli, his yellowish hair cropped short and his unshaven cheekbones covered in grit after a three-day ride through the wild. Dust covered his sideburns, breeches tucked into blunt cavalry boots, and a red, sweat-stained handkerchief tied around his neck. His once white, curled wide-brimmed hat, which had fallen in the heat of the battle, now lay trampled in sage at his feet.


        The one who died today was a skilled, well-trained cavalryman who led the Seventh Regiment to victory in 1868 when, breaking out of a raging storm, they destroyed the Black Teapot camp on the banks of the Ouoshito River.

        Finding himself in the shoes of a formerly reputed to be the best Indian suppressor in the US Army, he was a tired, unkempt soldier desperately fighting for his life, shouting commands to a young bugler standing next to him.

        - Denser, damn you, denser!

        - In the name of God, guys, don't run! What is it? Defeat?

        “Let the men of Kelhoun dismount and deploy like foot soldiers!

        Sergeant Robert Hughes of Company K held Caster's battle standard.

        A waving banner with red and blue stripes and two crossed sabers indicated by its presence that the colonel was on the battlefield. As Caster snapped open his Webley to load it with .45 from the bandolier in his belt, Hughes shouted:

        - Merciful Jesus! Tom got his!

        Captain Tom Caster, the colonel's brother, received a blow between the eyes and spattered the blood and brain of the entire frightened standard bearer.

        - They're coming here! Shouted the bugler. - Black as devils, and full of them, like herbs! Oh God, we will perish!

        The view that opened to Caster on an Indian village stretching along the river, from a high cliff, later known as the Battle Crest, was limited to thickets of tall dry grass. Looking from above at the incredible carnage continuing below, he realized that there were many more inhabitants than he expected. Unknown to the colonel, the Sioux and Cheyenne were located in seven rings, four miles long, formed when the three allied tribes - each walking a different hunting trail, as their size made clear - joined together shortly before the cavalry charge.

        Caster was an arrogant man of exorbitant ambition. A commander for whom attack and victory were synonymous. Retreating from the battlefield was simply not in his rules. Three days ago, his trackers discovered a fresh hunting trail, and then he ordered the Seventh Regiment to follow it through the sun-scorched Wolf Mountains to the place where the Indians had set up camp. His plan was to take them by surprise with a surprise cavalry charge from two sides, and to do this he divided his 615 soldiers into three battalions. Leading the lead detachment personally, while Reno's column was to attack from the flank, the colonel galloped his battalion to the camp, where not only the Indians whom they pursued, but also the warriors of other allied tribes were found. His people were outnumbered by one in ten. Caster's Luck turned its back on him.

        Like bees flying out of the hive, the Sioux and Cheyenne rushed into a violent counterattack. Furious Sioux, such as the Black Moon, the Raven King and Gal - the Furious Warrior, half-dressed, rushed from their tipis [1] to the formation of soldiers armed with long sabers; some wore Plains tribal war hats, others had feathers in their hair, tied in a bun, which meant "slit throats and scalps," or separated, which indicated that their wearer had "suffered many wounds." Cheyenne brave men like Blunt Knife, Flat Hip and Ice Bear screamed wildly to force the enemy to retreat, some firing from Winchesters, others from older muzzle-loading rifles; some were armed with bows and arrows or long, feathered spears, while others brandished double-faced tomahawks. The Mad Horses, the Ogalal Sioux - their horses were adorned with severed fingers to show off the number of enemies they had killed - galloped after Caster and his discarded men, sweeping the whites down the slope.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 February 2021 19: 41
          +8
          I wonder where did so many minus players come from? Sha from here hamsters "white and fluffy", it is in no century taken for kind words The author sculpt cons! And quietly, without arguing?
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 12 February 2021 20: 06
            +1
            Vlad hi decided to destroy Our quiet harbor. Let's - Calculate ... on the carculator laughing
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 12 February 2021 23: 15
            +6
            Hello, Vlad hi Yes, to hell with them, with minus. The intrigues of such spiteful critics have already been answered in our Soviet song:
            "Let our enemy laugh with an evil laugh,
            Let yourself do evil in the darkness,
            We will beat him with labor success
            And military studies as well! "(C) wink soldier
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 13 February 2021 09: 12
              +4
              Kostya, I don't know such a song
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 13 February 2021 17: 43
                +2
                I, unfortunately, do not remember all of it. The song is bardic, sang at the KSP in the seventies. drinks
                1. vladcub
                  vladcub 14 February 2021 15: 01
                  +1
                  In my opinion - the dawn of a bard song
          3. vladcub
            vladcub 13 February 2021 09: 10
            +5
            Namesake, this is a new brood of hamsters. They are not enough "Samsonov" and they migrate in search of food supply
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 09: 26
              +7
              Quote: vladcub
              Namesake, this is a new brood of hamsters. They are not enough "Samsonov" and they migrate in search of food supply

              So we are under rats and mice, just sharpened - guli-guli-guli !!!
        2. Catfish
          Catfish 12 February 2021 22: 32
          +4
          ... blasting out of his Webley ...

          It became interesting what model of the Webley revolver Caster had. I searched and found this, since the battle took place in 1876, he could only have a Model 1867 RIC "Royal Irish Constabulary" (revolver of the Royal Irish Police Force). Single action revolver. Caliber .422, total length - 235mm, barrel length -110mm, drum capacity - 6 rounds.

          The next model was released already in 1878 - the Army Express model.
        3. Fat
          Fat 13 February 2021 00: 40
          +4
          Bro, the Snail. great quote. But the first thing that came to my mind was the film with Mel Gibson "We Were Soldiers"
          At the beginning of the film, the main character is working through books about the "iconic" defeats of the American army, the name of Colonel Caster, who was smashed to pieces by "weakly armed Indians". Then he rereads materials about the Indo-Chinese war of the French ... When half a Vietcong company completely destroys a battalion of legionnaires ...
          Well, the tape is patriotically (USA) directed.
          Lieutenant Colonel Harold Moore (Discerning Reader on Savage Defeats) - Gibson, appointed
          President Johnson announces the dispatch of military forces to South Vietnam. Ironically, the regiment, which includes Moore's battalion, receives the designation 7th Cavalry... Moore leaves for South Vietnam with his men.
          Well, so that you further imagine - not all the main characters died, not even half ...
          The main part of the film is devoted to the battle in the valley of the Ya Drang River on November 14-16, 1965 - the largest battle in Vietnam to date and one of the largest during the entire war. Harold Moore is opposed by North Vietnamese Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Huu An. American soldiers, who landed near the base of the Vietnamese infantry division, manage to repel the attacks of superior enemy forces and, going on the offensive, capture the division headquarters.

          "Das East Fantastic", but stronger. The shown tactical findings of the ill-fated lieutenant colonel are good.
          So what is it about. Simply routing Caster's unit is an "icon" of its kind. It is not appropriate for a hero to be taxed like that. Imagine if the "Dakota" hadn't nailed it down, it would have been a wonderful exhibition frame. wassat
          Do you want to film with the famous Caster? Take a look at the price winked . laughing Well .. at least a scalp ...
          "Here is the hand of a fingerless, the head of Murietta" (c)
      2. antivirus
        antivirus 12 February 2021 20: 01
        +7
        how difficult the three-line was born.
        even the advanced West "floated" in these variegated caliber systems.
        and the eye of the generals did not see and the tooth did not grab that forward cartridge and barrel.
        it's just materials science mining of coal for smelting-rolling-forging.

        the economy began to win since the Crimean War
    3. RealPilot
      RealPilot 12 February 2021 19: 29
      +7
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, brilliant article!
      We are waiting for more new and interesting. More, but more good

      You shape the content that develops fellow
      And it remains relevant for a long time!
    4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 03: 19
      +5
      Big hello to everyone and thanks from the Author !!!
      Vyacheslav Olegovich today will not be able to join the discussion - he was banned by the Administration of VO due to his incorrect behavior.
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 13 February 2021 09: 50
        +3
        In this regard, he transferred his powers to the Ural cat
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 11: 03
          +4
          Well no! Shared in personal correspondence, I asked permission to notify our venerable company.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 13 February 2021 17: 11
            +2
            And how long will we be without a respected Caliber?
            Welcome hi
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 13 February 2021 17: 30
              +3
              Good evening, Alexey!
              Until February 22.
              1. Hunter 2
                Hunter 2 13 February 2021 17: 32
                +3
                Oh, just the Son will have D.R. wink A present for the Pope by February 23! drinks
      2. Phil77
        Phil77 13 February 2021 11: 29
        +3
        How so ?! This is his work? Ah yes Olegovich! laughing
  2. polpot
    polpot 12 February 2021 18: 06
    +4
    Thank you, as always the quality material with excellent illustrations.
  3. Mouse
    Mouse 12 February 2021 18: 10
    +7
    Sorry in advance ... repeat
    A little boy found a floppy disk, With it he came to the House of Pioneers, Stuck it into the computer, pressed "Reset" ... There are no more programs on the hard drive ...
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 February 2021 21: 45
      +4
      "There is no story sadder in the world,
      Than the story of the hovering "rice"
  4. gorenina91
    gorenina91 12 February 2021 18: 19
    +11
    She fired sharp-pointed Minier bullets or even explosive bullets containing a charge of explosive mercury or lead azide. The range of this rifle reached two thousand yards (1828 m), and most importantly, it had two barrels!

    - Personally, I didn't understand ... - how this rifle fired at 1828 m ... - in fact, a "pistol cartridge" ... and even a large caliber ???????? - Well ... - at 200-250 m, she could still shoot ... - And then ... - it's just unrealistic ...
    - Its "contemporary" ... - an excellent French rifle Chasspo ... - shot far .. and accurately ... - But these are completely different performance characteristics ... - And here you can still understand something ...
    - I want to understand and personally ...
    - How are all the "shooters" from cowboy westerns ... - suddenly linked into reality ...
    1. faiver
      faiver 12 February 2021 19: 37
      +6
      Shooting and hitting are somewhat different things, or, as they say in Odessa, there are two big differences, a bullet from a mosinka flies more than three km, but try to hit at least 500m
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 12 February 2021 20: 51
        +3
        As for long-range shooting with a Sharps rifle, there is a great movie with Mickey Rourke. "The Last Outcast" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-a7_C4ru_I
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 15 February 2021 04: 25
          +1
          As soon as I saw a black man in a gang of white southerners, he turned it off. They were ashamed with their tolerance. Negro with a revolver in a gang of southerners on equal terms! Yes, there will soon be a Chinese. laughing
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 February 2021 21: 35
      +1
      friend, to you. + I didn't think about it. True, I have not read about Chasspo and what her performance characteristics I do not know.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Bormanxnumx
      Bormanxnumx 12 February 2021 22: 12
      +1
      Quote: gorenina91
      Personally, I did not understand ... - how did this rifle shoot at 1828 m ... - in fact, a "pistol cartridge" ... and even a large caliber ???????? - Well ... - at 200-250 m she could still shoot ... - And then ... - it's just unrealistic ...
      - Her "contemporary" ... - beautiful French rifle Chasspo ... - shot far .. and accurately

      It was Jacob's 32 bore (13.3mm) double-barreled rifle with a 4.5g charge of black powder, so the cartridge is far from pistol. The effective firing range was voiced about 1200 yards.
      Explosive bullet for this rifle.

      Regarding the "contemporary Chasspo", she appeared 10 years later, and at that period of development of firearms this is a rather large gap in time.
    5. unknown
      unknown 13 February 2021 02: 53
      0
      Chaspo? The rifle with which France lost the Franco-Prussian war?
      The war that interrupted the career of the only Napoleon, whom traditional historians for some reason call the Third?
  5. Thrifty
    Thrifty 12 February 2021 18: 20
    +1
    Vyacheslav! Thanks for the article, it's interesting to read! hi But, one question - why are there no shops for this rifle in the photo in the article? Isn't there more than one copy? Then add photos or drawings of how they looked! hi
    1. Mooh
      Mooh 12 February 2021 20: 00
      +10
      A non-removable tube under the barrel was used as a store. It is perfectly visible in the photo and drawings. In the picture with the caption "Nelson King's patent." the principle of operation is very clearly shown.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 12 February 2021 20: 06
      +4
      Quote: Thrifty
      Why are there no shops for this rifle in the photo in the article? Isn't there more than one copy? Then add photos or drawings of how they looked!

  6. aars
    aars 12 February 2021 18: 22
    +6
    two bikes at once
    Motorcycle ?!
  7. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 12 February 2021 18: 25
    +2
    I was born in the Arctic. My father said that a local policeman was a neighbor. After another raid on the camp, he brought an armful of unaccounted for weapons. After "a glass of tea", the neighbor took his father to the pantry.
    - Choose the one you want!
    And Dad sees the "Winchester" from above!
    I took it, twisted it, played it ... A wonderful thing, but ... without cartridges. He sighed and put it aside.
    He still remembers with regret ...
    Thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich for the good reading.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 12 February 2021 19: 20
      +8
      Anything can happen beyond the Arctic Circle. Itself comes from there.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 12 February 2021 19: 35
        +6
        Anton hi all the disadvantages of the Arctic are compensated by the Northern Lights! A mesmerizing sight good (and a cocktail of the same name from frost - well, it instantly acts). Although honestly - I would not want to live there ... but God himself ordered to turn it into a (semi-extreme) tourism zone!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 12 February 2021 20: 12
          +4
          Alexey! hi
          There are certainly disadvantages. But in this case, I didn't say a word about them.
    2. faiver
      faiver 12 February 2021 19: 43
      +6
      A wonderful thing, but ... no bullets
      - it is quite possible that it was a "Winchester" under our native 7,62x54, they were delivered to the First World War ... hi
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 59
        +3
        Information flashed on TV that such "hard drives" were used in WWII
        1. faiver
          faiver 12 February 2021 21: 02
          +4
          these are exactly the ones that since the First World War, from the warehouses they gave out to the militia, quite a decent barrel, only lying down is inconvenient to shoot because of henry's staple
    3. unknown
      unknown 13 February 2021 02: 55
      +1
      And this, the case was not an 1895 Winchester?
  8. Alien From
    Alien From 12 February 2021 19: 20
    +4
    Vyacheslav Olegovich! Bravo! hi
  9. mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 12 February 2021 19: 21
    +9
    "The assistant grabbed three bags of ammunition and two winchesters and climbed onto the spreader sling. He was the only one left alive, and there is no wonder that he was completely insane. He fired from one gun; at last it was already impossible to hold in his hands, it was so hot ; then he took another. The deck was all black from the crowd of negroes. He drove them. He knocked them down as they jumped overboard, and continued to shoot when they grabbed the oars. Then they rushed into the water and started swimming, and he, distraught, he put six more to bed. "
    Favorite story
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 12 February 2021 19: 31
      +6
      good Excellent to be reminded!
      It just sounds intolerant ... Blacks should be called African-Americans or, at worst, African-Africans ... laughing
      Replace the crowd of Negroes - with a Meeting of AfroSomeone ... and not Shoot - but Hand out sweets wassat And to everyone to pay unemployment benefits for two hundred years of slavery! Then - Tolerant!
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 12 February 2021 21: 01
        +4
        The people of the Solomon Islands don't fall into the wrong category, they don't fall into this category. Here's how to call it, the catch.
    2. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 04
      +3
      Where does the story come from?
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 12 February 2021 20: 56
        +4
        Jack London "Scary Straw Islands"
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 12 February 2021 21: 04
          +3
          Actually, I have read little Jack London, but most likely this is a little-known work
          1. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 12 February 2021 21: 14
            +6
            I advise, despite the terrible episode, the story is humorous, with an unexpected ending, from the series "Tales of the South Seas"
            1. Camel
              Camel 21 February 2021 12: 41
              0
              Vladimir! Thanks for the tip. I will definitely download
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 February 2021 21: 47
            +3
            One of the most popular
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 February 2021 21: 15
      +2
      "it was impossible to hold in his hands" - how many bullets did he release? At least 500, though it is not known which Winchester
      1. mr.ZinGer
        mr.ZinGer 12 February 2021 21: 20
        +3
        The warmed up barrel of a rifle, an episode that he often mentions in this cycle of stories.
  10. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 February 2021 19: 22
    +3
    Good evening. I deliberately look at: "weapons", in the hope that there will be Vyacheslav Olegovich and not in vain
    1. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 03
      +4
      Someone doesn’t like that I look into: "weapons" in the hope that there will be Vyacheslav Olegovich?
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 12 February 2021 20: 21
        +4
        Of course I do not like it, but some of them are simply tore up with anger and envy! But openly expressing your reasoned "fi" is not for them !!!
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 12 February 2021 20: 26
        +12
        Someone doesn’t like that I look into: "weapons" in the hope that there will be Vyacheslav Olegovich?
        These are those who, after the toast: "Let's drink to love, and who cannot - to friendship," get upset and lose their appetite.
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 43
          +6
          Probably so.
          Viktor Nikolaevich, maybe I got into the “favorites” who have personal “minus” players?
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 12 February 2021 20: 47
            +6
            Quite possible. Deviant behavior is not uncommon today.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 13 February 2021 09: 34
              +1
              Vic Nick, about divinity, I agree, but out of harm.
              "The concept of a norm does not exist" (c)
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 12 February 2021 20: 55
            +4
            I have been saying for a long time that Shpakovsky is septic. He said "thanks" to Vyacheslav Olegovich - he became an infected "enemy of the communists".
            1. faiver
              faiver 12 February 2021 21: 04
              +5
              became an infected "enemy of the communists"
              - laughing
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 13 February 2021 09: 41
              +3
              Anton, then I suggest this option: "Shpakovsky byaka" and see how much will be - and +
  11. Undecim
    Undecim 12 February 2021 19: 37
    +20
    Therefore, most likely, the described case indicates that in his hands was Jacob's carbine - a double-barreled rifled primer rifle, which was the weapon of the British colonial troops in India, model 1856. She fired sharp-pointed Minier bullets or even explosive bullets containing a charge from mercury or lead azide. The range of this rifle reached two thousand yards (1828 m), and most importantly, it had two barrels!
    Here, Vyacheslav Olegovich, you have misled the audience.

    First, Jacob's carbine never made it to the arsenal of the colonial troops. The East India Company rejected the initiative, saying that "a double-rifled rifle considered good enough for the Royal Army is good enough for Indian soldiers." A double-rifled rifle refers to a Brunswick system rifle.
    Jacob decided to arm the battalion at his own expense and ordered, according to various sources, from 900 to 1000 carbines from the London company Swinburn & Son of London. But on December 5, 1858, Jacob dies, a small party was sent to India, and several units were generally adopted by the irregular cavalry.
    Jacob's remaining rifles are sold as hunting rifles. In one of the catalogs in 1907, they appear as "double-barreled elephant guns". There is also evidence that individual rifles were used in the American Civil War.
    Secondly, Jacob's carbine did not fire Minier's "pointed" bullets. This form of a bullet is called a cylinder-ogival bullet, there were no pointed bullets at that time.
    Jacob's carbine was loaded with bullets, based on the design of the bullet of Captain John Norton.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 12 February 2021 19: 46
      -1
      Your statement is debatable, Jacob decided to modify the standard weapon and for this he set up a shooting range in the wastelands outside the city with a length of 2000 yards (about 1800 meters). To begin with, Jacob increased the number of rifling in the rifle barrel to four and made bullets with two belts intersecting at right angles, which had a positive effect on the firing range.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 12 February 2021 19: 47
        +13
        Your statement is controversial
        Controversial about what?
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 12 February 2021 19: 49
          -1
          Something that did not come into service. More than 100 carbines were sent for testing.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 12 February 2021 19: 57
            +14
            More than 100 carbines were sent for testing.
            What carbines? If the ones that you described, then this is a reworking Brunswick with a round bullet, in which Jacob increased the number of rifling to four, making two belts on the bullet, respectively.
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 12 February 2021 20: 00
              +4
              hi Yes, I was wrong, really remix Brunswick!
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 12 February 2021 20: 21
                +11

                There is an entire chapter devoted to Jacob's carbine in this book.
    2. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 12 February 2021 21: 41
      +3
      Quote: Undecim
      This bullet shape is called cylinder-ogival

      I heard about "live" and "dead" water, about "rejuvenating" apples too, but so that the bullet was ogival .... this is the first time wassat
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 12 February 2021 21: 52
        +6
        Horace, there are many things in the world,
        That your philosophy never dreamed of.


        Samoilov K.I. Marine dictionary. - M.-L .: State Naval Publishing House of the NKVMF of the USSR. 1941. Volume 2
        1. Mihaylov
          Mihaylov 12 February 2021 22: 01
          +5
          Quote: Undecim
          Horace, there are many things in the world,
          That your philosophy never dreamed of.

          Uh-uh, do you happen to find healing bayonets and reviving grenades? wassat
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 12 February 2021 22: 19
            +5
            The healing effect of the bayonet, when used correctly, is almost 100%. From all diseases. "Instant pain, eternal healing."
            You need to look at the grenades.
      2. Avior
        Avior 13 February 2021 07: 17
        +5
        ... The animate form (also "revived", from the French ogive / augive) is a streamlined two- or three-dimensional shape, intermediate between a cone and an ellipsoid. In Russian, the term is usually used to describe the shape of the wings of an aircraft, shells and bullets, and also occasionally in architecture. ... The classical ogival form ("Karmana revived") is formed by the arcs of two circles (see figure; in the three-dimensional case, the rotation of these arcs is used).


        wink
  12. faiver
    faiver 12 February 2021 19: 45
    +5
    Many thanks to the author for the interesting reading hi
  13. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 00
    +7
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, to be honest: your version did not really convince me. I doubt the first part of the version.
    "Sunny Thunder" found nuggets with his peers and played with them. This is quite likely, but at the same time doubtful. If the actions took place not in the middle of the 19th century, but at the beginning of the 19th century, it could still be. Indians are smart and observant. Naturally, they noticed that the pale-faced people have money, they (the pale-faced ones) buy "yellow stones". Did none of the Indians know gold?
    I would have believed it if the action took place during the "hawkeye"
  14. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 February 2021 20: 39
    +7
    "who especially then followed the laws at the border" especially if the violation promises profits.
    Any arms dealer could find any excuses for himself. Up to the point that: I am color blind and cannot distinguish an Indian from a white
  15. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 12 February 2021 20: 57
    +5
    Iconic weapon and good article. Thanks to the author!

    It is curious that the pump gun, the most popular among Americans, was also produced by Winchester in 1897. It is interesting that the pump is faster than a lever drive, they say about 80 rounds per minute for the pump versus 60 for a lever drive.
  16. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 February 2021 21: 20
    +2
    "Oliver Winchester carbine" in fairness, Winchester is not a gunsmith, but a smart entrepreneur
    1. John22
      John22 12 February 2021 23: 02
      +1
      Yes sir. Winchester, entrepreneur, former clothing salesman. In time, he bought a patent from Henry and began to produce rifles at his arms factory. The rifle has changed its name. Later, he bought patents from Browning and produced rifles of his design. All rifles after 1876 are Browning designs.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 13 February 2021 12: 27
        0
        It's new to me that Browning designed rifles. I know him as the creator of pistols: Browning: "Long" (they were armed with Russian gendarmes) Colt M1911 and "fellow" TT
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 13 February 2021 20: 27
          0
          Quote: Astra wild2
          It's new to me that Browning designed rifles

          And can you imagine that this rascal "gave out to the mountain" and hunting rifles and machine guns! And all "Winchesters" from the 80s to the beginning of the 20th century are Browning's very skillful hands of creation! wink
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 14 February 2021 08: 27
            0
            About the Browning machine gun, somewhere there was a mention, but more .. ..
            1. John22
              John22 14 February 2021 17: 12
              0
              John Moses Browning created almost all types of small arms and small-caliber automatic cannons (tank and aircraft), laid in their design successful solutions that are still used today.
              1. Astra wild2
                Astra wild2 14 February 2021 20: 46
                0
                In small arms swept aside: Mauser
  17. Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 12 February 2021 21: 25
    +1
    "for a number of reasons", namely, they wanted to have a coin from Vyacheslav Olegovich, and Anton, Mauritius, Nikolay "Pan Kokhanku" live in St. Petersburg
  18. Dkuznecov
    Dkuznecov 12 February 2021 22: 37
    +1
    About India.
    What kind of "handsome" is presented in
    the middle of a great movie
    "Three idiots"? I admire
    but no associations.
    https://youtu.be/6bQFoy3NsSo?t=5251
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 12 February 2021 23: 53
      +3

      WINCHESTER MODEL 1894 IN 32WS 1941 PROD.
      1. Dkuznecov
        Dkuznecov 13 February 2021 15: 07
        +1
        Thank you very much!
  19. Catfish
    Catfish 12 February 2021 23: 30
    +10
    Vyacheslav hello and thank you! The article is at the Level, as always. good
    Interestingly, it was this gun of the 1873 model that caused the defeat of General Custer's detachment and the death of all his people in 1876.

    Somehow I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for this "national hero". He went to slaughter the savages armed with bows, but ran into magazine rifles, ruined his people ineptly and finished himself ingloriously.
    Well done, those guys who sold weapons to the Indians, and no matter what the motivating reasons moved them. That was a surprise of surprises for both the general and his army.
    The Indians were in general on their own land and protected their home and their families.
  20. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 12 February 2021 23: 42
    +5



    To make it even more fun!
  21. Fitter65
    Fitter65 13 February 2021 00: 28
    +1
    The law actually prohibited the sale of such weapons to the Indians, and the punishment for violating it was quite severe. But...
    The market is like that, if you can't, but you really want it, especially since this "wants" does not bring a bad profit, so you can.
    where did the Indians have so much money to buy so many hard drives and cartridges for them,
    It means that they have appeared, for thanks to them hardly anyone has sold, donated, or brought in the form of "humanitarian aid".
  22. Edvid
    Edvid 13 February 2021 01: 58
    +1
    I saw a Winchester from the forties (post-war) years. These are the fifties of my childhood in the settlement of Geological Party No. 244, Primorsky Krai. How these weapons got to the hunters, I learned only after a quarter of a century ...
  23. vladcub
    vladcub 13 February 2021 08: 16
    +2
    Yesterday I could not read the material, the Internet is lousy, I read it now. The gun was a landmark. It is present in many films. The very first film where I remember a Winchester - "Faithful Hand"
  24. Senior seaman
    Senior seaman 13 February 2021 12: 51
    +1
    In addition, it was durable, was not sensitive to pollution and had good accuracy at close range. By the way, it is because of this that the American army did not accept this rifle for service.

    Because of the accuracy? !! what
  25. Armen Sologyan
    Armen Sologyan 17 February 2021 08: 15
    0
    Well, the Winchester did not even appear on the coat of arms of one country, and Kalashnikov flaunts on the arms of many countries. So, for me, Kalashnikov is the best weapon in the arsenal of firearms. The next Kalashnikov will be an energy weapon. At school there was such a subject as NVP - initial military training and Our teacher and veteran of the Great Patriotic War, retired Colonel Goldfarb Semyon Naumovich, organized trips to the shooting range three times, where I had the opportunity to shoot from a Kalashnikov assault rifle with both single and serial shots. A wonderful weapon, but in my not skillful hands a Kalashnikov assault rifle performed tango and waltz. So that the target was not hit, all by! But with the TOZ small-bore rifle, I got a marksman badge. In our Moscow Secondary School, Our Semyon Naumovich equipped a shooting gallery in the basement and purchased TOZ rifles for NVP lessons. I was more than once invited to shoot and train in the shooting range. He was a very good Man and a veteran of that war !!! I always remember about Him as a Man with Soul and Heart !!!!