Military Review

Earliest firearms: parallel

259
Earliest firearms: parallel
Jean Froissard (1337-1410). Crossbowmen at the Battle of Crecy. National Library of France


Bahram was skillful in all arts.
He galloped off with a quiver, a crossbow.
A rider rushed after another couple,
And in cross-fire - a simple pebble.

"Shah-name" Hakim Abulkasim Ferdowsi. Translated by S. I. Lipkin

History firearms weapons. We often think that the development of any phenomenon occurs sequentially. And the same was true of the history of firearms. That at first there was a bow, then it was replaced by a crossbow, then a firearm came to replace it. However, in this particular case it was not at all the case.

Both the crossbow and spark ignited firearms reached their perfection almost simultaneously. Another thing is that the development of the crossbow has slowed down for a number of reasons, but firearms have changed incrementally.

Nevertheless, in 1550, both crossbows and rider's wheel pistols were approximately equal in their perfection, difficulty and combat characteristics. And in the future, crossbows continued to be used for a long time on hunting. And today we will tell you about how this happened, as well as about the latest and most advanced crossbows that existed in parallel with the match and wheel systems of small arms.


Chinese multiple-shot crossbow of the Ming dynasty. Illustration from the Chinese Encyclopedia, c. 1700-1725

Crossbow history


Let's start with hoary antiquity.

In 500 BC. e. The Chinese Sun Tzu in his work "Art of War" mentions powerful crossbows, which are easel bows.

From 400 BC e. Greeks use a crossbow - gastraphet.


Gastraphet of Hero of Alexandria. Drawing from the codex manuscript "Farisin" with additions in Greek. National Library of France

In the period from 206 BC. e. to 220 A.D. e. The crossbow becomes the common weapon of the Han Dynasty warriors and hunters.

About 100 A.D. e. in China, multiple-shot crossbows are already in use. The Romans (in the era of the empire), and then the Byzantines, knew the crossbow under the name Solenarion, but it was not widely used by them. Even the Picts knew and applied it.

And in 1100 he was already widely known in Europe. In 1139, Pope Innocent II forbids the use of a crossbow against Christians.


The earliest depiction of a rider with a crossbow is from a Catalan manuscript of 1086. The miniature shows the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. Archive of the cathedral in the city of Burgo de Osma Ciudad de Osma, Spain

In 1199, Richard the Lionheart, an ardent champion of crossbows, was mortally wounded from a crossbow during the siege of the castle of Shalyu in Aquitaine.

At the end of the XNUMXth century, the longbow supplants the crossbow in England, but in continental Europe the crossbow is still popular.

At the beginning of the XIV century, crossbows with bows of steel appeared.


Crossbowmen XI-XIII centuries. In the very first European crossbows, the string was pulled by hand. But already the Anglo-Norman crossbowmen of the XII century used the simplest block for this (5). Belt hooks were also used for tensioning (3, 4). With their help, inserting his leg into the stirrup, the crossbowman pulled the bowstring with his foot (6, 7). The XIV century crossbowman's equipment (8) was rather cumbersome, since it necessarily included a pavese shield. Arrows were used both feathered (10) and unfeathered (9), and even incendiary (7). In general, the crossbow has long been a very simple device (1). Illustration from the book by Liliana and Fred Funkenov “Encyclopedia of weapons and military clothing. Middle Ages. VIII-XV centuries: Armor and weapons. Fortresses and siege machines. Knightly tournaments and emblems. M .: Astrel, 2002, p. 125



A hunting crossbow with a four-wheeled cable winch that allows very strong tension on the crossbow. Made between 1499 and 1514 Such crossbows became widespread during the Hundred Years War. Well, and later were used as a hunting weapon. Kunsthistorisches Museum Vienna, New Castle, Court Hunting and Armory


Surprisingly, such crossbows have been in use in England for a very long time. Here we have a crossbow with a winch from 1700-1799. Royal Arsenal, Leeds


And this is how the winch itself is arranged. Made in 1631-1670. Royal Arsenal, Leeds

In the XIV-XV centuries. The crossbow becomes the standard weapon of choice for French and Flemish citizens defending their cities. In 1521-1524. crossbowmen actively participate in the campaigns of the conquistadors Cortez and Pizarro in the New World.


Crossbow of Count Ulrich V of Württemberg (1413-1480), dated 1460. Attributed to Heinrich Heid von Winterthur, probably a Swiss. This is the earliest known dated crossbow in existence. It depicts the coats of arms of Württemberg and Savoy, which belong to its owner, Count Ulrich V of Württemberg (1413-1480) and his third wife, Princess Margaret of Savoy (1420-1479). Above the trigger is a German blessing written in Hebrew letters. This is a rare and early example of Hebrew writing on a personal item intended for a Christian sovereign. It can be translated as "Take care of God and be generous!" or "My God, good!" Material: wood (European hornbeam), horn, animal sinew, antler, birch bark, iron alloy, copper alloy. Dimensions: length 71,2 cm). Weight 2 g, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


Attaching a bow to this crossbow. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


"Nut" - the main detail of the trigger mechanism of the crossbow, before 1272 Weight 8 g, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

Traditionally, the bow of the crossbow was made of wood. But bows from the horns of a mountain ram are known. And already in the XNUMXth century, crossbows with bows made of steel appeared, with increased power.


Return of Charles VI after the Battle of Roosenbeck (1382). Miniature from Froissard's Chronicles, XNUMXth century In the foreground is a crossbowman with an "English collar" on his belt. National Library of France

In the XNUMXth century, firearms began to gradually displace crossbows from military arsenals in Europe, where they are used mainly for hunting (mainly for birds) and for shooting at targets.


Universal crossbow-ballester for bullets and arrows in combination with a match gun. Manufactured approx. 1570-1600 The polished and engraved antler inlay depicting trophies of weapons is based on sketches by Jacob Floris (1524-1581) published in Antwerp in 1564. The bow was later replaced with a new one. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


But in this way the bowstring was cocked on it. All later systems with a shutter control using a lever under the forend could well have been based on this particular design. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

At the same time, even hybrid types of weapons appeared, that is, a crossbow combined with a match or wheel musket. It is clear that such weapons were ordered by the craftsmen solely for the amusement of the nobility. And such systems did not have much significance. But they developed the craftsmanship of their manufacturers.

1894-1895 The Chinese use multiple-shot crossbows in the war with Japan.

1914-1918 Homemade crossbow grenade launchers are used in the trenches of the First World War.

Principle


Interestingly, the very principle of imposing the bow on the stock all this time remained practically unchanged, but the mechanism of the bowstring tension was subjected to changes, which was clearly associated with an increase in the power of the bow.

So, the same gastraphet of the ancient Greeks was cocked due to the fact that the shooter rested it on something hard and leaned on its support with his stomach (hence, by the way, its name).

The Romans also knew the crossbow, they called it the Solenarion. However, the bowstring was pulled in it by hand. Therefore, its power was low. And because it was used mainly for hunting. By the way, in Ferdowsi's poem "Shah-name", the crossbow is mentioned as a weapon specifically for hunting.

First, the crossbows were pulled with belt hooks, a winch with a chain hoist system. And in the XNUMXth century, the so-called "goat's leg" also appeared - a lever that was fixed on the stock of the crossbow and pulled the bowstring back. Crossbows of this system were faster than those that were pulled with a winch. But they were weaker.


"Goat's Leg" of the late 49,8th - early 713th centuries. Length XNUMX cm.Weight XNUMX Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

In the XNUMXth century, ballester crossbows spread, firing lead (as well as clay) ball bullets. A cup was fixed on the bowstring for such a bullet, and instead of a nut, their trigger was equipped with a vertical descending rod that entered into a loop on the cup.


A ballester crossbow dating from 1573. The work is North Italian or French, probably Savoyard. Material: steel, wood (cherry, mahogany), antler, ivory. Length 95,9 cm.Weight 1 977 Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


Ballester, England (1700-1740). Royal Arsenal, Leeds


Hunting ballester 1580. Also with a lever mechanism under the stock. Such crossbows did not require a "goat's leg" or a winch. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

But around 1450, the so-called "Nuremberg gate", a kranekin or "spinner", appeared, representing a removable device for tensioning the bowstring of a bow of a crossbow of any strength. And this immediately pushed the creators of crossbows to develop not only large and powerful crossbows - powerful due to the size of the bow, but also small ones, but with a bow made of steel.

Very small crossbows appeared (they were called cranekin) especially for riders, which they could load without getting off the saddle. And immediately, detachments of mounted crossbowmen appeared on the battlefield, which had not been before, shooting at the enemy's horsemen and infantry from a distance. There was even a post of "great master of crossbowmen", the second most important in France after the great constable.


"Nuremberg Gate", made between 1508 and 1519. Belonged to Emperor Maximilian I. Kunsthistorisches Museum Vienna, New Castle, Court Hunting and Armory


Big cranekin. OK. 1575-1650 Presumably Saxon. Material: steel, wood (probably plum), copper alloy, gold, hemp, textiles (probably flax). Length 47,1 cm. Weight 5,838 g. That is, this auxiliary mechanism weighed more than a modern rifle with cartridges. But in addition to kranekin, the crossbowman also needed the crossbow itself, and then a quiver with arrows. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

So in 1550, both the crossbow and the rider's wheeled pistols both in complexity and in their fighting qualities were about the same level.

Firearms crossbows supplanted


And, nevertheless, the crossbows were supplanted by the firearms.

Charles IX, King of France 1560-1574 completely eliminated the crossbow from military equipment, declaring that it, as a weapon, had become useless. And he invited all archers and crossbowmen to arm themselves with arquebus.

The bow survived in the English army until 1595. And it was also canceled.

Well, the reason, I think, is clear. Caring for a crossbow was more difficult than caring for a pistol or musket. And arrows took up more space in equipment than gunpowder and bullets. It was more difficult to activate it, for this anyway, physical strength was required. Whereas the arquebus was enough just to raise, aim and pull the trigger. In addition, the same "Nuremberg gate" was a rather heavy and metal-intensive product.

And again, it was the crossbow that prompted the gunsmiths the idea of ​​a rifled weapon, because many crossbows even then fired arrows rotating in flight. And this rotation of them significantly increased the accuracy of hitting the target.

But hunting crossbows were produced and used for a very long time. And they became real works of weapons art.


Crossbow by master Johann Gottfried Henisch the Elder, dating from 1742. It is one of a series of crossbows created by Henisch the Elder for the court of Frederick Augustus II, Elector of Saxony from 1733 to 1763 and King of Poland August III from 1734 to 1736. Length 73,2 cm; width 63,3 cm; 4817; kranekin (without crank) 36,2 cm; crank length 27,3 cm. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


The buttstock of this crossbow has a hunting scene engraved on the bone. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

And, of course, as noted above, arrows were required for crossbows. And they were much more difficult to manufacture than simple lead bullets.

In addition to shafts of the same thickness and weight, it was required to forge steel points, "squares", as the arrows called them. Although the tips were very different in use, including in the shape of a reverse crescent. All this made the use of crossbows more expensive compared to firearms, without giving much benefit.

Both crossbows and muskets were fired in 1550 at about 1-2 rounds per minute.


Arrowheads for a crossbow. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

To be continued ...
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 7 February 2021 05: 53
    +12
    With a lead bullet, you can break your head from a slingshot, so a crossbow with such ammunition is a rather dangerous weapon. I thank the author for an interesting article. hi
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 07: 27
      +13
      A sports crossbow with a tension force of about 40 kg permitted by the Ministry of Internal Affairs. from a mere meters punches a pine board to the depth of the tip. Likewise when shooting from a sports bow.
      Respect and respect to Vyacheslav, only "ripped" his eyes, pulled his paw to the phone and then a long-awaited surprise! Even if not on a branch of history, but in weapons, but instead of "apparatus" for an appetite surge, as the best medicine. Especially with such illustrations. Like valerian's cat !!!
      Thanks again, good Sunday everyone !!!
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 7 February 2021 08: 06
        0
        Yes, my friend was as happy as a child when he was presented with a crossbow.
        I just did not understand from Vyacheslav Olegovich, what is a multiply charged crossbow? You will need to Google it separately.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 08: 47
          +9
          HOW Leader! I think anyone from our group would be happy if they gave him a block crossbow !!! It is not yet known who is more
          I will smile! Before the New Year, Maman of her acquaintances bought a wooden construction set for her ten-year-old "child". Model of a wooden Ural motorcycle. I don't know who was more happy, a group of dads from 35 and above, or a child whose toy was taken away on his birthday, collected, played enough and only after that was given away. Fortunately, the kebab was not burned. The child honestly worked out his preparation, reporting "everything is burning there", there "it does not burn at all" !!!
          No kidding, I received a similar gift for the New Year, I got carried away to the fullest! For seeing my new hobby - I stated "to dad the more wooden the gift, the better." She promised to give a paleno next year !!! laughing
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 February 2021 08: 52
            +6
            Buratino you will win! laughing
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 February 2021 09: 13
              +6
              Papa Carlo was all alone. Giuseppe doesn't count.
              Vladislav, as far as I understand, does not get bored.
          2. Proxima
            Proxima 7 February 2021 14: 48
            +7
            Quote from text.: "That first there was a bow, then it was replaced by a crossbow, then a firearm came to replace it. However, in this particular case it was not at all like that." This paradox can be easily explained, namely the rate of fire of the bow compared to the crossbow and firearms. A colorful example is the Battle of Crécy. Professionally trained English archers literally crushed the French, who were mainly armed with crossbows. The casket opens simply. The bow fired 12 shots per minute, the crossbow - 3. That is, in theory, the frogs got 4 (!!!) fellow times more arrows in themselves than the British, and you will agree very seriously. I also remember a bike when, during the Battle of Kunesfdorf, an arrow whizzed literally in centimeters from the face of Friedrich II (Kalmyk irregular formations tried). The Prussian king then exclaimed: "With whom am I at war? - I am at war with the Mongols!" belay And this, by the way, is already the middle of the eighteenth century! These are the temporal parallels between bullets and arrows! recourse
            1. Pane Kohanku
              Pane Kohanku 7 February 2021 19: 00
              +7
              A colorful example is the Battle of Crécy. Professionally trained English archers literally crushed the French, who were mainly armed with crossbows.

              Sergei, as far as I remember, it was even easier there. hi Hired Genoese crossbowmen Philip II sent into battle "to the quarry" after a long march, and the paveses remained in the train. That is, expensive professionals were driven out into the field to be shot without any cover. negative Organization issues, and she was not to hell ... request If I'm wrong, correct me. With respect, Nicholai. hi
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 20: 48
                +6
                Quote: Proxima
                The casket opens simply. The bow fired 12 shots per minute, the crossbow - 3. That is, in theory, the frogs got 4 (!!!) times more arrows in themselves than the British, and you will agree very seriously.

                Quote: Pan Kohanku
                A colorful example is the Battle of Crécy. Professionally trained English archers literally crushed the French, who were mainly armed with crossbows.

                Sergei, as far as I remember, it was even easier there. hi Hired Genoese crossbowmen Philip II sent into battle "to the quarry" after a long march, and the paveses remained in the train. That is, expensive professionals were driven out into the field to be shot without any cover. negative Organization issues, and she was not to hell ... request If I'm wrong, correct me. With respect, Nicholai. hi

                Sorry to interfere.
                To the above stories you can add one more, the Genoese got caught in the rain before the battle, their aunts got wet and they simply could not get the British on the hill. Then the circus in the French army continued! The crossbowmen were sent to attack the British, and after the failure they were chopped down by the French knights!
                1. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 7 February 2021 22: 22
                  +7
                  Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                  and after the failure, and in this they were chopped down by the French knights!

                  They rather trampled them down, the retreating crossbowmen found themselves in the attack sector of the French cavalry hi
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 05: 38
                    +7
                    Many French and English historians agree with each other that the French knights did this on purpose.
                    1. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 10: 08
                      +6
                      Many French and English historians agree with each other that the French knights did this on purpose.

                      In short, a mess of chaos, and everything came together against the crossbowmen. request
                      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                        Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 11: 18
                        +4
                        Nicholas France of the era when the king was the first among equals to die or change!
                        Another little touch to the Battle of Kersey.
                        The French knights were so sure of their victory that they began to hand out golden spurs before the battle began.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 8 February 2021 11: 45
                        +2
                        She died, along with the rest of Europe, but a little later and for another reason.
                      3. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 11: 49
                        +4
                        She died, along with the rest of Europe, but a little later and for another reason.

                        Do you mean the Great French Revolution and the subsequent first revolutionary, then Napoleonic wars?
                      4. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 8 February 2021 14: 15
                        +3
                        No, MLP and the plague pandemic.
                      5. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 14: 45
                        +3
                        MLP

                        What is MLP? And how did the plague affect the changes of the era? I already thought that the real change of the era began in the 16th century - in connection with the great geographical discoveries and the reformation of the church.
                      6. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 8 February 2021 14: 49
                        +2
                        Little Ice Age.
                      7. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 00
                        +3
                        Little Ice Age.

                        When did it happen, and how did it affect the life of Europe?
                      8. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 13
                        +3
                        It is necessary to write an article.
                      9. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 16
                        +3
                        It is necessary to write an article.

                        That is, you know, but you don’t tell anyone, and we remain shaggy and uneducated? tongue All right. wink When will you write an article about it? yes
                      10. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 20
                        +2
                        I wrote about MLP 2,5 years ago. I haven't finished talking about the plague.
                      11. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 21
                        +2
                        I wrote about MLP 2,5 years ago. I haven't finished talking about the plague.

                        Where are the publications? stop By the way, you can make out the bloopers from the series by the plague. They say enough. drinks
                      12. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 24
                        +2
                        It makes sense to do this in a cycle: "When did the Middle Ages end?" And it is not finished yet.
                      13. Pane Kohanku
                        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 25
                        +2
                        It makes sense to do this in a cycle: "When did the Middle Ages end?" And it is not finished yet.

                        In short, I gave you a vector, and you think.drinks
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 34
                      +1
                      What series are you talking about?
                    3. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 44
                      +2
                      What series are you talking about?

                      "Plague" seems to be the name. You saw? Me not.
                    4. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 50
                      +2
                      Then how do you know about some blunders? Moreover, what I watched has nothing to do with the plague pandemic of the 14th century.
                    5. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 52
                      +2
                      Moreover, what I watched has nothing to do with the plague pandemic of the 14th century.

                      In short, start with the migration of Pasyuk, and with the inventor of biological weapons, Khan Janibek.
                    6. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 56
                      +1
                      Kolya, you haven't read anything on this topic, have you?
                    7. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 58
                      +2
                      Kolya, you haven't read anything on this topic, have you?

                      Will you beat .. recourse Only Gumilyov! request
                    8. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 8 February 2021 16: 04
                      +1
                      Well, I'm Supotnitsky. Feel the difference.
                    9. Pane Kohanku
                      Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 16: 13
                      +3
                      Well, I'm Supotnitsky. Feel the difference.

                      I can not! I don't even know who Supotnitsky is. request
                    10. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 8 February 2021 16: 15
                      +2
                      Microbiologist. He worked in "Vector". Author of "Essays on the History of Plague".
  2. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 15: 26
    +3
    Hello Anton hi The public murmurs ... request And he is indignant! Why don't you want to post an article ???
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 29
    +3
    Good afternoon, Alexey!
    I explained above to the public figure and the "liberated trade union" why I did not post.
  4. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 15: 32
    +3
    I read it, I think it can be posted in parts ... thanks from readers - will spur on further work yes !
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 8 February 2021 15: 39
    +2
    I can't do that, alas ...
  6. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 49
    +2
    I can't do that, alas ...

    You just haven't tried it! drinks
    I explained above to the public

    Not! I am a beech and a sociopath! laughing
  7. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 15: 15
    +4
    The Little Ice Age (MLP) is a period of global relative cooling that took place on Earth during the XIV-XIX centuries. This period is the coldest in terms of average annual temperatures over the past 2 thousand years. The total duration is usually indicated as 1312-1791.
    First of all - low yield and the result is hunger! I'll work for Anton laughing
  8. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 19
    +4
    I'll work for Anton

    Alexey, help me better give him a kick so that he can finally give out the article. fellow And then he knows a lot, but does not want to share, greedy! request drinks He somehow gave me knowledge of building materials - so I was generally shocked. Didn't really know a lot of things!
  9. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 15: 21
    +3
    And on what topic should you issue? And why is he resisting? what
  10. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 23
    +4
    And on what topic should you issue? And why is he resisting?

    Yes, a lot for what. Lazy just. request
  11. bubalik
    bubalik 8 February 2021 15: 41
    +4
    ,,, just thought, that's because technology shortens distances. We communicate instantly here Peter-Samara-Tyumen. How much news would have been going from the capital to Siberia 150 years ago? good
  12. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 15: 44
    +4
    Why did the technique reach ... this is not technique, but I myself came here on skis! (c) Winter in Prostokvashino. laughing
  13. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 47
    +3
    How much news would have been going from the capital to Siberia 150 years ago?

    Six months, no less.
    We communicate instantly here Peter-Samara-Tyumen.

    Our Vyacheslav Olegovich recently told how he exchanged drawings with Sheps, and with editors - materials in the pre-Internet era ... In general, we live in sooooo informational time! drinks
  14. Korsar4
    Korsar4 8 February 2021 20: 50
    +2
    I would have extended it for another hundred years in 1791.
    The onset of the Time of Troubles (Poor Boris Godunov!) And certain advantages of conifers over broad-leaved species are associated with the Small Ice Age.
  15. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 12: 39
    +4
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    She died, along with the rest of Europe, but a little later and for another reason.

    But before that, for almost seven decades, France was ruled by Louis XIV, who could afford to say in front of everyone “the state is me”!
  16. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 11: 48
    +3
    The French knights were so sure of their victory that they began to hand out golden spurs before the battle began.

    But King Edward III did not send reinforcements to the part of the troops that was under the command of the Black Prince, saying: "Let the boy earn his own knight's spurs." soldier
    Nicholas France of the era when the king was the first among equals to die or change!

    I think Philip did not originally dream of becoming a king ... His Majesty is the case! request
  17. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 12: 41
    +2
    Quote: Pane Kohanku
    I think Philip did not originally dream of becoming a king ... His Majesty is the case!

    Nature sometimes "rests" on children!
    Valois, in principle after Philip the Handsome, began to bend. Reading about the monarchs of France during the 100th war, sometimes you wonder how you can put manic persistence "to step on the same rake"!
  18. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 12: 56
    +4
    Reading about the monarchs of France during the 100th war, sometimes you wonder how you can put manic persistence "to step on the same rake"!

    At least until the appearance of the "Maid of Orleans", they with consistent success wasted all major battles ... request
    Under Poitiers, it seems, too, the whole color of French chivalry fell?
  19. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 13: 31
    +4
    According to legend, the origins of all the troubles that befell France at that time are hidden in the curse to which the Grand Master of the Knights Templar subjected King Philip IV the Handsome, who condemned him to death ... There is something in this!
  20. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 13: 39
    +5
    According to legend, the origins of all the troubles that befell France at that time are hidden in the curse to which the Grand Master of the Knights Templar subjected King Philip IV the Handsome, who condemned him to death ... There is something in this!

    Yes, it seems, Jacques de Molay finally cursed some generations of monarchs, which happened ...
  21. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 13: 50
    +3
    Jacques de Molay, burning at the stake, summoned King Philip IV and Pope Clement V to divine judgment, and cursed the king's offspring for eternity, declaring that it would be carried away by a great tornado and scattered in the wind. The Pope died a month later, on April 20, 1314. The King died at the age of 46 from a stroke on November 29, 1314. The dynasty ended 14 years later, after the death of the last of his sons.
    Actually, the next Valois dynasty, like the Kopetings, ended its existence rather sadly.
  22. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 14: 01
    +2
    The dynasty ended 14 years later, after the death of the last of his sons.
    Actually, the next Valois dynasty, like the Kopetings, ended its existence rather sadly.

    On the other hand, Edward III Plantagenet, albeit mamma, was a Capetian. Where did his claim to the French throne come from? drinks
  23. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 14: 17
    +3
    Quote: Pan Kohanku

    On the other hand, Edward III Plantagenet, albeit mamma, was a Capetian. Where did his claim to the French throne come from:

    It can be said unequivocally that with the execution of Jacques de Molay, hard times have come in France. The dynasty died, a hundred-year war began. So don't Believe after that in "curses" ... although a coincidence is possible. drinks
  24. Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 14: 46
    +3
    The dynasty died, the hundred-year war began. So don't Believe after that in the "curse" ... although a coincidence is possible.

    Another stage in the development of history. Although the coincidence is truly sinister.
  25. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 15: 46
    +3
    The bourbons also delighted the conspiracy theorists. Maybe it's not a curse?
  26. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 8 February 2021 15: 52
    +4
    And there is a legend about the Bourbons:
    Henry IV of the Bourbon dynasty came to the throne, but in 1610 he was also killed. During the Great French Revolution, Louis XVI was executed by guillotine. It is said that when the king was beheaded, a man jumped onto the platform, dipped his hand in blood and raised it with the words: "Jacques de Molay, you are avenged!"
    Maybe not in the "curse" ... but somehow everything is in the Christmas tree request
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 7 February 2021 11: 18
    +6
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    Yes, my friend was as happy as a child when he was presented with a crossbow.

    I am a living example of such a lucky one! hi Modern block crossbows in power and accuracy are not inferior to smooth-bore weapons, and due to their "noiselessness" even surpass! It is a pity that hunting with crossbows and bows is prohibited in Russia, to be honest, the nature of this prohibition is not entirely clear. It remains to use throwing weapons only for recreational shooting sad
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 7 February 2021 11: 56
      +5
      to be honest, the nature of this prohibition is not entirely clear.
      Everything is simple here. Arrows and bolts are not reflected in the cartridge case.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 11: 59
        +7
        Greetings Anton hi It is also unrealistic to determine the Weapon from which it was fired by the smoothbore bullet! I think the ban is due to noiselessness, it will be difficult to catch poachers, or just a gap in the legislation ...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 February 2021 12: 04
          +3
          Good afternoon, Alexey!
          On the bullet, yes, but there are also casings.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 7 February 2021 12: 21
            +8
            The main weapons of Our hunters are smooth-bore shotguns (double-barreled guns), if the Weapon is not self-loading and is not equipped with a spent cartridge case extractor - the cartridge case remains in the barrel. Having experience in the investigation of "poaching slaughter" I can say that even the cartridge case (For smooth) found at the site of the battle does not link to illegal extraction. It is impossible to prove when and where the shot was fired. With a rifled weapon, in this case, the situation is much simpler, a bullet extracted from an illegal hunting object (rifled) is a confirmation of illegal extraction.
            Unfortunately, We have a lot of white spots in the legislation related to hunting.
            Permission to use throwing weapons, in my opinion, would attract more law-abiding hunters, fans of archery and crossbow shooting to hunting. Accordingly, it would be much easier to protect the objects of the animal world!
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 February 2021 15: 04
              +7
              And where do we have no blank spots? And how many codes contradict each other ?!
              1. Hunter 2
                Hunter 2 7 February 2021 15: 10
                +5
                Actually, the rule of law is constantly evolving like the norms of morality ... a natural process. New times, New challenges - novelties in legislation. Evolution is right!
                1. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 15: 23
                  +8
                  Who would argue.
                  Only at first the law is adopted - and then they think: how to live with it.

                  And corrections won't always help.
                2. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 7 February 2021 15: 37
                  +4
                  Eh ... it's hard to argue here too! An example is the new law on fishing, which forces you to go fishing with a ruler and throw away and not eat non-viable fish that are not suitable for restrictions (and the main thing is to prove nothing) negative
                3. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 16: 58
                  +6
                  How much resources are wasted on useless reports. Examples can be given endlessly. Imitation, not essence.
    2. Saxahorse
      Saxahorse 7 February 2021 18: 09
      +5
      Quote: Hunter 2
      I think the ban is due to noiselessness, it will be difficult to catch poachers, or just a gap in the legislation ...

      As far as I remember, the ban is associated with the increased cruelty of hunting with a bow and crossbow. Weak weapons leave a lot of wounded.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 18: 18
        +6
        You're wrong, an arrow wound channel (with a good tip) is guaranteed death. Actually, even wounded animals do not go far, a sharp drop in pressure and significant blood loss.
        1. Saxahorse
          Saxahorse 7 February 2021 18: 24
          +3
          Do you think that the wound channel from the bullet is much smaller? 12 gauge especially :)
          This is not my guess, so they explained.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 7 February 2021 18: 32
            +4
            It is believed that wounds with low-speed (less than 150 m / s) striking elements are perceived as much more painful than wounds with high-speed elements. This is explained by the too short interaction time of the high-speed element and the nerve receptor. Roughly speaking, the receptor simply does not have time to react in 1/10000 of a second, during which contact with the damaging element occurs.
            In my opinion, an injury with a normal hunting tip, in addition to painful shock, will lead to much faster blood loss due to the absence of a shocking effect on the vessels and arteries, which are actually smoothly cut and not injured (with blockage).
            1. Kisa
              Kisa 7 February 2021 19: 52
              +2
              the statistics are modern - 2 out of 10 are not found from the carbine. from a crossbow or campound (block) 7 out of 10 lose this about deer without snow. there is more bullet water hammer when it opens.
              bolts right now, a work of art mechanical broadheads (tip) open two inches of a razor with a carbon arrow of 0.003 tolerance by a knock illumination (where the bowstring is inserted - to find where to bury it and when filming a tracer type) .. in short about 50 bucks each - all the trash got into the tree ... Crossbows progress very quickly - every 5 years the speed doubles. right now, 450 feet per second is available - a group of 2 inches per 100m is like a carbine. therefore, even began to limit not allowed with optics.
              the compound bow is still more sporty. The crossbow is more for poaching. and he and the other for 2-3 thousand bucks the latest models
  • bk0010
    bk0010 7 February 2021 12: 02
    +3
    Quote: Leader of the Redskins
    what is a multi-shot crossbow? You will need to Google it separately.
    Google the chocon the crossbow. By the way, I also recommend Google Instant Legolas - a self-loading bow.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 7 February 2021 12: 23
      +4
      Self-Loading Compound Bow - Made a strong impression on me good it's good that they recalled him! hi
  • Moore
    Moore 17 February 2021 06: 58
    0
    The question is not for me, but I see that there is no answer, so if you don’t mind: This is a crossbow with a kind of box-case on top for unfeathered arrows:

    Usefulness is questionable, because:
    - the introduction was carried out manually with that crutch, which could not but affect the decrease in the destructive power of the device;
    -the gain was only in saving time for pulling out the next arrow from the quiver and putting it into the chute.
    But even ihetuani were still used. The results of the application are unknown to me.
    And this is the modern version:

    How much efficiency here, and how many show-off, I can not judge.
  • Mother Theresa
    Mother Theresa 7 February 2021 18: 38
    +5
    50 meters block crossbow.
  • Alien From
    Alien From 7 February 2021 20: 29
    +3
    I join the Cat! Article is like a balm for the soul! Respect to the author and guests hi
  • Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 7 February 2021 15: 52
    +1
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    A lead bullet can also break a head from a slingshot, so a crossbow with such ammunition is a rather dangerous weapon

    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 11: 31
      +2
      Thank! I looked with pleasure.
  • tlauicol
    tlauicol 7 February 2021 06: 14
    +7
    It turns out that the lever for the schnepper was invented a long time ago, and not at all by Jörg Ströve. lol Didn't he give a significant increase in rate of fire?
    1. kalibr
      7 February 2021 07: 20
      +7
      Quote: Tlauicol
      Didn't he give a significant increase in rate of fire?

      I can not say exactly. Only that the English gate was very slow ...
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 7 February 2021 07: 24
        +6
        Modern shop snippers make up to forty rpm. Weak.
        But even powerful ones charge quite quickly, a few seconds. Apparently, this was not necessary on the hunt, and against plate armor with a ball it is ineffective
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 7 February 2021 19: 02
        +3
        Only that the English gate was very slow ...

        EMNIP, English archers were from yeomen, and received land allowances and other buns?
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 07: 45
      +14
      From my own experience.
      With a hook on the belt, you can provide a rate of fire of 8-12 rounds per minute for three minutes. Then much lower.
      With a goat leg (not removable) up to 12-15 rounds per minute, but no more than five minutes.
      With a collar, 1-2 shots per minute, but long.
      With a collar "French meat grinder" 2-3 shots.
      Well, the last "cherry on the cake" sighting turns out to be no more than the first ten. Then the back begins to ache, the arm or arms fall off.
      A trained girl from a bow, in front of our eyes, threw 40 arrows from 40 meters into a target 40x25 cm and did not even sweat!
      What does it mean professional athletes and we are amateur experimentalists.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 February 2021 07: 51
        +8
        Then much lower
        Because the bolts will run out. laughing
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 08: 21
          +7
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Then much lower
          Because the bolts will run out. laughing

          Hello Anton. The Italian crossbowman of the late Middle Ages went into battle not alone, but with one or two assistants. In some cases, he was even entitled to a mule.
          So, given that the upgrade, in addition to the food weapon, included protective and defensive equipment, floating craft and much more. Yes, no more than 100 - 150 bolts. Although I think even the steel arc of a crossbow or gate died before he could shoot them.
          The English archers at Agincourt expended between 250 and 350 arrows per brother.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 February 2021 08: 33
            +4
            The English archers at Agincourt expended between 250 and 350 arrows per brother.
            Hello, Vlad!
            What is this statement based on?
            1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 09: 03
              +7
              I read it at Begunova's. About 20 years ago, that when marching to Calais, King Edward ordered to cut provisions, but take all the arrows. There were calculations of how many arrows the English Yemen were carrying with them, how many were in the train. So the British did not die of hunger a bit, but won.
              The gap in one hundred (more precisely 90) pieces, she explained by the fact that the royal archers were supposed to have more carts than the archers of the counties.
              Although I met in documentary historiography that the royal archers before the battle shared arrows with the counts. In principle, she had interesting calculations for both the rate of fire and preparation for firing. For example, at the station position, the British stuck two-thirds of the "bundle" of arrows in front of them, for maximum rate of fire.
              And I also remembered that Edward made his soldiers, without exception, drag a 6-foot stake. This is practically half of France !!!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 February 2021 09: 33
                +5
                In principle, she had interesting calculations for both the rate of fire and preparation for firing.
                I wonder how many times during the battle, with such activity, the shooter had to pull the string?
                1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                  Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 12: 42
                  +8
                  Wow buddy you make me strain my memory!
                  If I remember correctly. The royal archers were supposed to have three spare aunts, the counts at least two. They kept them under the headdress or in the bosom. The foremen in the absence of a reserve could even punish a negligent subordinate.
                  From the treasury, the yeoman received arrow shafts, arrowheads and goose feathers. The arrows were made by themselves. The standard stock is three "bundles" of 30 arrows each. We kept them in shoulder bags. Tool and quiver were despised by seasoned archers. And when choosing feathers they tried to take from the left wing of the gander, why I don't know. The glue was cooked together. Each one bought the wax for his aunt separately.
                  Here Vyacheslav Olegovich in sue mentioned Sharp's Arrow several times. So the author of books about him, Bernard Cornwall, wrote several history-adventure books and about the English yeomen. The most famous are the Harlequin trilogy and the Agincourt novel. He contributed a lot to his works from what we reliably know about archers, although he did not avoid smearing reality with fantasy and mysticism! In fact, the fictional hero is included in real historical events, everyday life and war. Moreover, the Author directly points out his fiction and the truth! Quite a fascinating reading.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 7 February 2021 12: 47
                    +4
                    Thank you, Vlad!
                2. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 7 February 2021 13: 25
                  +5
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  I wonder how many times during the battle, with such activity, the shooter had to pull the string?

                  Good afternoon Anton, and you know how you can identify an archer - by the teeth, archaeologists told me. hi
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 7 February 2021 13: 46
                    +5
                    Hello Sergey!
                    Have not heard about the teeth, what is the reason?
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 7 February 2021 14: 10
                      +4
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      Have not heard about the teeth, what is the reason?

                      They chewed the bowstring to soften it, from which the molars were strongly grinded.
                      1. Hunter 2
                        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 14: 25
                        +5
                        Quote: Mihaylov

                        They chewed the bowstring to soften it, from which the molars were strongly grinded.

                        Hmm ... mostly a bowstring in the Middle Ages was made from plant fibers (flax, hemp, hair) - why chew it? Maybe there is some kind of connection to the area?
                      2. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 7 February 2021 14: 26
                        +4
                        Quote: Hunter 2
                        Hmm ... mostly a bowstring in the Middle Ages was made from plant fibers (flax, hemp, hair) - why chew it? Maybe there is some kind of connection to the area?

                        It was about nomads, I guess they used the veins
                      3. cat Rusich
                        cat Rusich 7 February 2021 22: 42
                        +2
                        Quote: Mihaylov

                        It was about nomads, I guess they used the veins
                        Nomads could use LEATHER for making bowstrings - after processing leather bowstring not afraid of moisture, it was possible to fight in the rain. soldier
                    2. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 7 February 2021 14: 38
                      +4
                      Probably, we are talking about nomads.
                3. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 7 February 2021 14: 11
                  +6
                  I haven't heard of teeth either! What could you do with your teeth when shooting a bow?
                  About scoliosis - I've heard that shooting loads develop the right half (in right-handers).
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 7 February 2021 14: 30
                    +6
                    I read about the deformation of the first metacarpal bone on the left hand, in fact, by which the French identified professional archers among the British prisoners. What followed next, I think there is no need to explain.
                  2. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 7 February 2021 14: 42
                    +3
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    I read about the deformity of the first metacarpal bone on the left hand

                    Interestingly, I have not heard about this, but how did it get deformed?
                    Occupational disease, I suppose.
                  3. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 7 February 2021 15: 03
                    +5
                    With constant loads on the cavity between the thumb and forefinger, given the fact that training began long before the final formation of the skeleton, the left thumb was more distant from the palm than in other people.
                  4. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 7 February 2021 15: 11
                    +4
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    the left thumb was more distant from the palm than other people.

                    "Claw" means it turned out, I wonder, I'll know hi
              2. Mikhail Ya2
                Mikhail Ya2 8 February 2021 08: 57
                +1
                Chopped off the middle finger
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 8 February 2021 08: 59
                +5
                Left thumb. Humanists, damn it.
              4. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 8 February 2021 11: 54
                +2
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Left thumb. Humanists, damn it.

                O times! About manners!
                And how do you order after that to pick your nose? wassat
              5. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 05
                +3
                And how do you order after that to pick your nose?

                When Taira caught the famous archer Minamoto Tametomo, they cut the tendons on his arm, but he later again masterfully mastered the bow. By the way, he also invented seppuku - at least the first documented case of this form of suicide. hi
      2. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 7 February 2021 14: 39
        +4
        Quote: Hunter 2
        About scoliosis - I've heard that shooting loads develop the right half (in right-handers).

        But it is interesting: were there left-handed archers then? In the Middle Ages, left-handers were not welcome, as far as I remember.
      3. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 14: 49
        +5
        Quote: Mihaylov

        But it is interesting: were there left-handed archers then? In the Middle Ages, left-handers were not welcome, as far as I remember.

        I think that there were left-handers, it's still physiology, in fact, like those who could shoot with both hands! The proportions between left-handers and right-handers remain approximately at the same level of 10 - 17% as then.
      4. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 February 2021 14: 57
        +3
        The proportions between left-handers and right-handers remain approximately at the same level of 10 - 17% as then.
        Not certainly in that way. The same Romans were most likely ambidexters, the sword was worn on the right.
      5. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 15: 04
        +5
        Ambidexters are also about 10% of the population (proportionally, the number does not change). I think according to the Romans - more tradition.
      6. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 7 February 2021 15: 10
        +5
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        The same Romans were most likely ambidexters, the sword was worn on the right.

        I think that the Romans wore a sword on the right for a practical reason: in conditions of a closed legion, it is more convenient to take out the sword on the right, since the gladiuses were not very long and they could be easily pulled out on the right with their right hand, and if later they wore longer swords like spatha, then it is rather a tradition.
      7. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 15: 20
        +6
        Yes, and being an ambidexter is good - to have both hands equally for a fight, that's good
        It is much sadder to be an ambisinister (when both hands are left) - this is really a failure crying when they say that the arms grow from the fifth point. And there are also many of them up to 10% and they have always existed!
      8. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 7 February 2021 15: 22
        +6
        Quote: Hunter 2
        when they say that the arms grow from the fifth point. And there are also many of them up to 10% and they have always existed

        It seems to me that there are much more of them than 10% wassat
      9. martin-159
        martin-159 7 February 2021 18: 33
        +3
        They basically do not work, but they come up with laws.
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 7 February 2021 19: 05
    +4
    There were calculations of how many arrows the English Yemen were carrying with them, how many were in the train.

    "Throw the food, carry the bullets" - the iron rule of those who want to survive. It's funny that at the end of 1812 it was the other way around. Retreating French throwing guns but carried the plundered silverware ... A paradox? request
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 7 February 2021 16: 39
    +4
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    Because the bolts will run out

    - Comrade commander, we ran out of cartridges!
    - But you are a Soviet man!
    And the machine gun shot with renewed vigor. wassat
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 7 February 2021 16: 44
      +5
      "But for this, father, you can put your party card on the table!"
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 7 February 2021 18: 11
        +5
        "Hangout, chapel, temple or tavern:
        Give the order, but don't choose the means ”(c).
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 February 2021 18: 27
          +3
          "And if there are those who come to you,
          There will also be those who will come for you "(C)
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 7 February 2021 19: 51
            +2
            "Send me, Lord, the second" (c).
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 February 2021 19: 57
              +2
              "My friend left for Magadan" (C)
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 00
                +3
                "Indian summer, Indian summer" (c).
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 20: 04
                  +2
                  "Mom-mom, it's me on duty,
                  I am on duty in April "(C)
                2. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 06
                  +3
                  "There is a secret sadness in the initial Spring" (c).
                3. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 20: 10
                  +3
                  "Actress Spring, after a long illness,
                  On stage again
                  With a light movement, fluttering onto the stage,
                  Thawed roofs "(C)
                4. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 34
                  +3
                  "Spring Girl with Long Legs" (c).
                5. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 20: 37
                  +3
                  "A girl walks down the street barefoot" (C)
                6. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 39
                  +3
                  "On which you walked" (c).
                7. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 20: 53
                  +3
                  "I do the tiptoe dance" (C)
                8. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 55
                  +3
                  "Try to go back" (c).
                9. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 20: 57
                  +3
                  Looking around, we see only ruins "(c)
                10. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 21: 15
                  +4
                  "I am going down, patricians,
                  I blow bitter with the plebeians "(c).
                11. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 21: 24
                  +3
                  "In a pub, with a cheap violin,
                  At the table, sticky from dirt,
                  He will laugh with Satan "(C)
                12. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 21: 34
                  +4
                  "Dear boy, you are so cheerful, so bright is your smile" (c).
                13. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 21: 43
                  +4
                  "Grateful Fatherland awarded with a bayonet in the belly" (C)
                14. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 22: 00
                  +3
                  “And everyone has one head -
                  As with me "(c).
                15. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 22: 03
                  +4
                  "And the head is a dark object and cannot be studied." (C)
                16. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 7 February 2021 22: 30
                  +4
                  "Not. We are not ready for war "(c).
                17. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 February 2021 22: 51
                  +4
                  "Scratching pointlessly" pacific "with a key,
                  On a brick wall
                  With a certain amount of pride,
                  Remember the fists of the Lyuberovs "(C)
          2. Korsar4
            Korsar4 8 February 2021 00: 01
            +2
            “Jimmy missed.
            Masai hit ”(c).
  • Pane Kohanku
    Pane Kohanku 7 February 2021 19: 06
    +3
    "But for this, father, you can put your party card on the table!"

    "I have something wrong with fractions, my daughter ..." wink
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 7 February 2021 19: 08
      +2
      "Move aside, damned ohalnik!"
      1. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 7 February 2021 19: 11
        +3
        "Move aside, damned ohalnik!"

        "What kind of panagia can a lady wear?" belay ("The Monk and the Devil").
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 February 2021 19: 17
          +4
          "What monks, such a panagia!" (L. Godiva)
          1. bubalik
            bubalik 7 February 2021 19: 31
            +4
            The monk was declared a saint during his lifetime,
            Just think, brothers -
            After all, the monk kept his vow of silence,
            With a sledgehammer hitting the finger!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 February 2021 19: 36
              +5
              "And at this time the women were digging" (C)
            2. bubalik
              bubalik 7 February 2021 19: 46
              +4
              Dig here for now, and I'll go and find out where you need to! (C) laughing
            3. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 7 February 2021 19: 50
              +4
              "The important thing is not to win but to take part!" (attributed to Pierre de Coubertin)
            4. Kote Pan Kokhanka
              Kote Pan Kokhanka 8 February 2021 11: 37
              +3
              Quote: bubalik
              Dig here for now, and I'll go and find out where you need to! (C) laughing

              How familiar this is!
              "Round wear - square roll!"
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 February 2021 07: 21
    +6
    In 1199, Richard the Lionheart, an ardent champion of crossbows,
    Somehow this phrase does not fit with the chivalrous ("san per et san reporsh") image of Richard.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. kalibr
      7 February 2021 07: 30
      +7
      That was the way Richard was ... and to use them he fought against Muslims!
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 February 2021 07: 39
        +6
        Then, of course, that changes things! "Why should you feel sorry for them, bastard!" (WITH)
      2. Pane Kohanku
        Pane Kohanku 8 February 2021 15: 33
        +1
        That was the way Richard was ... and to use them he fought against Muslims!

        So he himself suffered from the bolt? By the way, there is little Russian-language literature about Pierre Basil, Richard's killer. If you find sources - look forward to the article! good
        1. kalibr
          8 February 2021 19: 41
          +1
          But it's not as easy as it seems - to find an interesting English-language text, translate and write material with interesting illustrations.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 9 February 2021 09: 50
            +1
            But it's not as easy as it seems - to find an interesting English-language text, translate and write material with interesting illustrations.

            At least you have enough experience in this! yes
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 7 February 2021 08: 00
    +5
    In addition to shafts of the same thickness and weight
    The shafts of the bolts, in contrast to the bow arrows, are short. If you have quality blanks, they can be made with an ordinary drift.
  • Catfish
    Catfish 7 February 2021 08: 24
    +7
    Good morning everyone, and thanks to Olegych! smile

    Well, if you believe Michael Hoare, then crossbows are quite themselves and are now used in some kind of special operations.
    Still from the movie "Wild Geese", which Hoare consulted. Rhodesian Lieutenant Peter (Hardy Krueger) removes the sentries on the towers from the crossbow.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 09: 19
      +5
      Abroad as special tools, they began to be massively used after the 70s. With the advent of carbon fiber and Kevlar tetev. Previously, they tried to use the fighting Polovtsy, but not very successfully. The two-medium firearm proved to be more effective.
      On special equipment I saw for a long time an American boarding crossbow for storming buildings. You shoot the cat through the window. You disconnect the crossbow and attach the climbing gate. You twist a thin string on a nylon rope and forward to the assault. Long and dreary, about 15 minutes for all the processes, to storm the apartment on the 4th floor.
      Our samples from the 90s, based on the pneumatic principle, did the same thing, but in 1 minute, throwing a climbing rope with a cat along which you can immediately climb to the top, without twisting the string.
      Again, the plus of the crossbow was that you can shoot from it every 1-2 minutes. Fired - threw the cat, disconnected the string, you go to another window.
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 7 February 2021 09: 54
        +2
        Previously tried to use combat Cumans,

        I hope they were swimmers after all, and not violent neighbors of Kievan Rus.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 12: 44
          +3
          Swimmers, of course! Described.
    2. garri-lin
      garri-lin 7 February 2021 09: 23
      +2
      You still remember John Rimbaud !!!
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 7 February 2021 09: 37
        +5
        I remembered the film only because it was consulted by the professional mercenary Colonel Hoare, I see no reason to mistrust his experience, especially since the film shows a real story.
        And as for Rambo, you remembered him, not me, but "they don't argue about tastes," you put in your "five kopecks". laughing
        1. garri-lin
          garri-lin 7 February 2021 10: 48
          +4
          Despite all the advantages of a crossbow over a low-noise weapon, there is no. I will say more the shot from the crossbow is quite noisy. And its application for this reason looks rather strange. I agree to throw the hook. What a weight. He's the usual shooting to kill this posturing. Hoare is certainly a master of his craft, but then I think the director tried, for show-off.
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 12: 59
            +6
            Before the appearance of "VSK" and "Vintorez" with their 9mm subsonic bullets, the crossbow had superiority over a firearm with a silencer. At the very least, the uncharacteristic sound of a crossbow shot will attract less attention than a shot with a silencer.
            This problem forced the Americans in Vietnam to use crossbows along with revolvers with a subsonic bullet.
            We were doing better with this. For close combat, a double-barreled PSS floor pistol was used, for medium-range complexes based on Vintorez and VSK. I personally have one complaint to both of them - very tender. You can't knock on a foe's door with a rifle butt.
            Otherwise, Val is generally handsome.
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 7 February 2021 13: 29
              +5
              Vlad hi in fact, for sabotage work, the crossbow is well suited, to install all kinds of "radio beacons", again, for throwing all kinds of hooks - cats, as an addition to climbing equipment! In my opinion, there is only one drawback, the complexity and duration of loading, for example a crossbow with a foot stop, it is very difficult to charge while lying down - you will have to roll over onto your back and then back ...
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 14: 31
                +3
                Alexey greetings, I saw a crossbow for special operations only once, it was equipped with a cocking lever according to the principle of a "goat's leg" but on the side with a gear mechanism. For a full platoon, the trotter had to be wrung out three times.
                He did not have special ammunition, he was used by shooting with a cat (harpoon). In principle, it was possible to shoot at a window, but for five-story buildings it was supposed to shoot through them. The harpoon flew to the other side of the house. There, one of the riot policemen grabbed the sleeve with a ring with a special hook like the handle of an American shovel and cleared money from the house by stretching out a string and climbing rope made of biplistic nylon. The second grabbed the hook and fastened it to the foundation block by an eyelet or a fan pole through a chain. After the string was pulled out, the rope carabiner automatically latched onto the cat's ring. The only problem was not to get hit by a blind cat-harpoon.
                But I will repeat myself. Our special devices were better, both pneumatic and powder. They shot the cat straight away with an alpine rope, there was no need to stretch the string.
                Although this and that had a loud sound, which was muffled by a siren.
                1. Hunter 2
                  Hunter 2 7 February 2021 14: 41
                  +3
                  Vlad, the training of serious special forces does not impose "frames" on the use of weapons and special devices, often everything is adjusted to a particular Fighter ... accordingly, the arsenal can be very specific! It is quite possible that someone also uses crossbows in their "work". At least I heard about target illumination through radio beacons (delivered with a crossbow).
                  I heard about the work of the OMON with a crossbow for the first time, I think it has the opportunity to be such a job hi
                  1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                    Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 17: 21
                    +5
                    Quote: Hunter 2
                    Vlad, the training of serious special forces does not impose "frames" on the use of weapons and special devices, often everything is adjusted to a particular Fighter ... accordingly, the arsenal can be very specific!

                    Good evening! Where, where, but not from us exactly what is in stock then take it. No - go buy!
                    Yesterday I was listening on the radio on the radio a program about the border guards of the European Union, who have psychological problems due to the fact that they are forced to buy with their money.
                    I almost shed a tear from emotion out of sympathy for the poor Lyakhs, Germans and Frisians! It's kind of normal with us, if you want to look human, you buy in the store. Girls, at least, take in uniforms according to the figure. About the equipment, you can go with what the Motherland gave out, but the body kit and equipment for the internal service is not allowed. And when reinforced, everyone steps in, so that in the safe everyone has bought a minimum of equipment and equipment for their own money, so that they don't carry handcuffs and gas cans in their pockets. In fact, only the holsters are state-owned, the rest is everything bought from a whistle to a safety belt. Dinosaurs like me have everything from PRs to their handcuffs. For example, I only have a PM - five types of handles, from standard to PMG, with a reset button.
                    But what can I say, an alarming suitcase, which was canceled 5 years ago, was taken home only in December last year. He devoured the ration and threw out the wool socks that the moth had devoured. The rest is in the dressing room and is waiting for a pension, as the chuyka says “there is nothing more eternal than temporary, everything permanent is fleeting”! wink
                    1. Hunter 2
                      Hunter 2 7 February 2021 18: 11
                      +4
                      Vlad is more complicated for you, although a lot also depends on the Office. Tyumen residents also have everything at their own expense. We have been communicating with the Novosibirsk special forces of the Federal Penitentiary Service since 2000, they are simpler. But ... there are a couple of services, I will not name them - they simply care and cherish their Profi wink there And the choice of Weapons and Equipment - on request, moreover, they constantly test almost all new items in this area, visit (specially trained people) exhibitions both in Russia and abroad.
            2. garri-lin
              garri-lin 7 February 2021 15: 07
              +2
              The only advantage is an uncharacteristic sound. They may simply not pay attention. The rest is debatable. What are the advantages of a crossbow? Slightly greater range than a pistol? How big is it? I can still imagine a shot at 50-60 meters. 100 is already fantastic. And the fact that in Vietnam they used so on Rimbaud, I have already referred.
          2. Catfish
            Catfish 7 February 2021 17: 06
            +3
            Hoare is certainly a master of his craft, but then I think the director tried ...

            I don’t know, I’m not sure, but you won’t say anything for sure, maybe the director, but maybe not.
            Vladislav spoke about the advantages quite objectively below, and he is also a professional in his field.
            Before the appearance of "VSK" and "Vintorez" with their 9mm subsonic bullets, the crossbow had superiority over a firearm with a silencer. At the very least, the uncharacteristic sound of a crossbow shot will attract less attention than a shot with a silencer.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 7 February 2021 19: 42
              +2
              In the film, sentries were killed with poisoned arrows from a crossbow. Agree sounds strange. With regard to the use of narrow specialists, perhaps it was. But I honestly don't see any advantages. Perhaps people who used such a weapon were "on hand". Although I will not argue. Val and Vintorez are definitely the pinnacle of evolution, but even before them there were many low-noise weapons. Up to arrow launchers based on Colt 1911. Perhaps the most original solution for locking powder gases.
    3. bubalik
      bubalik 7 February 2021 11: 32
      +6
      Crossbows are quite themselves and are now used in some special operations.
      and not only.
      Ballestrino. It is a small crossbow for concealed carry, a tool of professional assassins of the Renaissance.
      Appeared around the beginning of the 16th century in Venice.


      Already in those days, a fine was introduced for those caught with this type of weapon.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 7 February 2021 15: 07
        +5
        Ninja European Spill.
        1. Catfish
          Catfish 7 February 2021 17: 48
          +5
          Hello, Sergey. hi
          Vasil Ivanovich said well about the ninja: "I-I-I ... With a bare heel on a checker." smile
          1. Korsar4
            Korsar4 7 February 2021 18: 01
            +6
            Good evening, Constantine!
            There are jokes in every country.

            But the Japanese know how to fight. At least the older generation.
            1. Catfish
              Catfish 7 February 2021 18: 22
              +5
              But the Japanese know how to fight.


              After the pogrom at Midway, talking about some of their skills, in my opinion, makes no sense.
              Somehow it so happened that it was the Americans who got even with them for "our" Tsushima, chased them and hit them in the tail and mane.
              1. Korsar4
                Korsar4 7 February 2021 19: 43
                +5
                Yes. But the character of the warriors still remained then.
                1. Catfish
                  Catfish 7 February 2021 20: 32
                  +6
                  A character without competent planning of pilot training, without a modern technical base, it was worth little and degenerated, in the end, into a cry of despair under the name of "kamikaze".
                  1. Korsar4
                    Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 38
                    +5
                    My son made a report about kamikaze at school.
                    And I set it up with Rosenbaum.
                    1. Catfish
                      Catfish 7 February 2021 20: 48
                      +7
                      Yes, the national Cossack poet Rosenbaum, a noble historian, of course. smile
                      But seriously, not a single kamikaze ship, a class higher than the escort aircraft carrier, was sunk. And the Yankees convoyers churned out almost like cars, and most importantly, there were always trained pilots for them.
                      1. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2021 15: 04
                        +3
                        At the same time, the song is not bad.
                        Once he lives and is remembered, then something responds.
                      2. Catfish
                        Catfish 8 February 2021 16: 09
                        0
                        But I have not heard this song and do not know the words.

                        "With a feathered arrow in my throat, I lie on the damp ground!
                        But life could not seem ... "(c)
                      3. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2021 16: 54
                        +2
                        Here's a piece.

                        "I am conscientiously decree
                        Enrolled in a kamikaze.
                        With a full bomb load flying.
                        In fuel tanks - to the goal,
                        Well, the goal, it’s in sight,
                        And I want to take it today.
                        Nerves are torn to the limit -
                        To die is for the idea.
                        And I enter my last bend.
                        And those that are on target,
                        Looking up, numb
                        They know what my aerobatics threatens them with "
                      4. Catfish
                        Catfish 8 February 2021 17: 21
                        +2
                        To be honest, not impressed. request
                        "And those who are on target", they were not at all numb. Rosenbaum should at least see the chronicle of how the ship's anti-aircraft gunners tore to shreds kamikaze planes from their "Chicago pianos", there is a lot of it, this chronicle, but with hits in the ships one or two and miscalculated. They died for nothing, to no avail.
                      5. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2021 20: 37
                        +2
                        “The sky is crowded from shells,
                        I dive steeply
                        I go extremely beautifully.
                        Three seconds left to live
                        And it’s not important that so few
                        My trees will bloom in the garden. “(C)


                        I think we have no right to demand from the song the complete identity of events.
                      6. Catfish
                        Catfish 8 February 2021 20: 59
                        +2
                        Of course not, I just have my own attitude to the kamikaze, just like to any other fanatic, no matter what "god" he is praying to.
                      7. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2021 22: 40
                        +2
                        This is probably a separate conversation. You can't get into the skin of a kamikaze or an assassin.

                        Remember Hot Snow. The tanks had to be stopped. There was a chance to survive. But how many survived.

                        And the fathers-commanders were also different.
                      8. Catfish
                        Catfish 8 February 2021 23: 05
                        +1
                        Yes, of course, but what I meant was "mass" fanaticism.
                      9. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 8 February 2021 23: 40
                        +2
                        Humanity is generally quite easily manageable.
                        And the environment can easily maintain a degree of aggression.

                        An example, for example, of football fans.
                      10. Catfish
                        Catfish 8 February 2021 23: 48
                        +2
                        I usually remember the entrance to the Metro, a bunch of doors from the street, and everyone is breaking into one, into the one into which someone has already passed in front of them. Herd instinct.
                        Even as a child, my mother told me, never run in the direction where everyone is running, wait, look around, and best of all - go directly to the opposite.
                        I have lived with this all my life.
                        PS And we didn’t go for vaccination, we’ll wait.
                      11. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 February 2021 03: 52
                        +2
                        Flow.
                        And on the one hand, the best speed is the flow rate.

                        As a child, he loved the metro - palaces.
                        And now, whenever possible, I replace it with a walking alternative.

                        Fortunately, sometimes you can afford it.
                      12. Catfish
                        Catfish 9 February 2021 04: 18
                        +1
                        I loved courtyards, walkways in Old Moscow, now everything has been ruined, there are no walkways, there is no Moscow either.
                      13. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 February 2021 06: 44
                        +2
                        It's harder for a Muscovite to understand. Probably, near Myasnitskaya, for example, there are still others.

                        On Thursday, from Serpukhovskaya I went to my stations, dropping the reins.

                        I went to Lefortovo.

                        There are still not so familiar streets and passages.
                      14. Catfish
                        Catfish 9 February 2021 06: 46
                        +1
                        And I am no longer drawn there, the city that I knew and loved is no longer there.
                      15. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 February 2021 06: 49
                        +2
                        It's like a river that you can't enter twice.

                        But every year you can update the essay: "What do I know about Moscow?"
                      16. Catfish
                        Catfish 9 February 2021 07: 06
                        +1
                        For me it will rather sound like "What I don't know about Moscow", or "What I don't want to know ..." laughing
                      17. Korsar4
                        Korsar4 9 February 2021 13: 49
                        +2
                        Yes. No matter how much I love Moscow, no matter how much I am, I walk around on foot - but still - a guest.
  • Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 7 February 2021 18: 24
    +6
    Sergei, I'm afraid the Japanese brought up on the Bushido code are practically gone. For 76 years the country is actually under occupation. Therefore, in my opinion, it is correct to say that the Japanese were able to fight.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 7 February 2021 19: 45
      +5
      I admit it. Globalization is taking its toll on them.
      The question is who is the successor to Bushido?

      Masai?

      Came across a song that hit Jimmy.
      1. Hunter 2
        Hunter 2 7 February 2021 19: 50
        +5
        I'm afraid the Bushido receivers have sunk into oblivion ... crying
        In general, an interesting Philosophy, clan-based - the meaning of raising an ideal Warrior! Something like Ours - Die but do not disgrace the Fleet (Honor)!
        The Japanese are a very peculiar nation, I really want to visit Japan, from the Kuril Islands - I showed them figurines laughing
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 7 February 2021 19: 54
          +5
          And I'm from Sakhalin.

          To me their seasonality: from sakura to maples.
          And the division of the day into two-hour segments is very close.
          1. Hunter 2
            Hunter 2 7 February 2021 19: 59
            +4
            Well, in general, give a hand to the Japs! It's 9 o'clock to fly recourse Have you visited the Samurai (former)?
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 02
              +7
              Misspelled.
              I was there twice.
              Himself - from the suburbs.

              But I love the Far East, in all its forms.
            2. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 7 February 2021 20: 12
              +6
              I live practically on the border of Europe and Asia, in Tyumen (no longer the Urals, Western Siberia) I like Asia, I've been to China 11 times, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia ... I have a dream to visit Japan, Indonesia and Laos with Burma (Myanmar ).
              In Cambodia, even the "partisan" saw and communicated, interesting guys, live off the illegal mining and sale of rubies. Russians - Well respected wink I shot them with SVD - I almost got accepted into the partisan detachment drinks
            3. Korsar4
              Korsar4 7 February 2021 20: 36
              +6
              And I like it. But there was quite a bit: a couple of times in Tajikistan and China, and once in Syria.

              I love to travel to work. Even indirectly.
            4. bubalik
              bubalik 8 February 2021 14: 46
              +3
              visited China 11 times, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia ..
              .
              I shot them SVD - I almost took to the partisan about

              ,,, interesting to tell. I envy you with white envy yes
  • bubalik
    bubalik 8 February 2021 14: 31
    +4
    European Spill Ninja

  • Catfish
    Catfish 7 February 2021 17: 09
    +6
    Wonderful toys, the question is how deadly they are.
    Yes, and this is not a case for the children of rich parents? Painfully richly decorated, somehow too bold for a simple killer.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 7 February 2021 17: 16
      +5
      Konstantin hi Miniature crossbows were also Women's and Children's (among the aristocracy and wealthy townspeople) Weapons. These samples are just such an example!
      For a killer, of course, simplicity and functionality, unnecessary decorations - it's not a pity to quit.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 7 February 2021 17: 31
        +4
        Well, yes, something like our "TT" of the nineties. laughing
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 7 February 2021 18: 13
          +4
          Yes sir... laughing time passes, craft and artisans do not change! bully
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 08: 26
    +6
    Charles IX, King of France 1560-1574 completely eliminated the crossbow from military equipment, declaring that it, as a weapon, had become useless. And he invited all archers and crossbowmen to arm themselves with arquebus.

    As far as I remember, the first arquebusses were crossbows from which lead bullets were fired. Later this name was passed on to firearms.
    1. kalibr
      7 February 2021 10: 13
      +5
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      Later this name was passed on to firearms.

      Exactly!
  • Catfish
    Catfish 7 February 2021 08: 55
    +7
    Here are a couple of examples of modern crossbows.


    All markings are perfectly readable when the photo is enlarged.
  • Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 February 2021 09: 16
    +10
    How many geniuses have invented weapons. The same "goat leg": try, invent.
    How many forgotten Archimedes.
    1. Catfish
      Catfish 7 February 2021 09: 22
      +7
      Yes, the creators are forgotten, but the creations live.

      Hello, Sergey. hi
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 7 February 2021 09: 39
        +6
        Hi Constantine!
        So you cannot consider a person in isolation from time.

        Ideas are in the air.
  • Borz
    Borz 7 February 2021 10: 29
    +4
    Many thanks to the author for the informative and informative article.
  • Undecim
    Undecim 7 February 2021 10: 59
    +7
    1914-1918 Homemade crossbow grenade launchers are used in the trenches of the First World War.
    And not only homemade ones. In 1915, the French artilleryman Elie André Broca developed a special design for the L'Arbalete la Sauterelle Type A D'Imphy grenade throwing crossbow, for which he received a patent.

    Hand grenades were used as a projectile. An F1 grenade or a Mills grenade could be thrown at a distance of up to 140 meters.
    In reality, the application looked like this.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 7 February 2021 11: 05
      +6

      Since the device was quite complex, instructions were attached.
  • Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 7 February 2021 11: 28
    +7
    I read the article by Vyacheslav Olegovich ... prepared a "whole article" - a comment with amendments and additions ... But "one careless movement" and my "work" was gone! I got upset and decided not to participate in the discussion! I hope that there will be commentators on VO without me who will make amendments, comments, additions to the article ... and they are!
    1. kalibr
      7 February 2021 11: 46
      +6
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      But "one careless movement" and my "work" was gone!

      God punished you: He could not spare our glory; Could not understand at this moment bloody, To what he raised his hand! .. Here is God ... and ... pushed his arm !!! The only way!
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 7 February 2021 12: 27
        +6
        Quote: kalibr
        God punished you

        Everything "might be"! That is why I decided not to contradict you, and not to participate in the discussion ... As they say, "God's will for everything!" recourse (it's a pity, of course ... it's enough, in my opinion, I've "dug up" the material ...)
        1. kalibr
          7 February 2021 12: 37
          +6
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          sorry, of course ... enough, in my opinion, "dug up" the material.

          Of course it's a pity. You usually have such interesting additions ... A joke about God, of course.
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 7 February 2021 19: 09
            +5
            Of course it's a pity.

            And I will propose to Vladimir to prepare an article. And let it forward to you - for publication. drinks
            We already had this. Remember the "three-ruler" cycle? Viktor Nikolaevich wrote a gorgeous "Allaverdy". good
    2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 7 February 2021 13: 06
      +5
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      I read the article by Vyacheslav Olegovich ... prepared a "whole article" - a comment with amendments and additions ... But "one careless movement" and my "work" was gone! I got upset and decided not to participate in the discussion! I hope that there will be commentators on VO without me who will make amendments, comments, additions to the article ... and they are!

      Nikolaevich, it’s you in vain! I propose to take fifty grams to warm and cheer up and repeat the feat!
      Yours!
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 7 February 2021 14: 46
        +5
        I wish you good health, Vladislav! Thank you for your kind words; but alas! The commentary turned out to be quite voluminous ... to repeat it, you have to spend time in a certain "caliber", and I needed time for other things ... there is no time to "repeat" now! (Currently, I "ran" on the VO page "for a minute" and soon "disappear" ...!) As they say in a certain romance: And finally I will say ... There is one German dude on YouTube who is interesting " became obsessed with "bows, crossbows, slingshots ... He made" many "designs on archery elements and rubber bands! That is why I will give a "link" to one of his designs (Instant Legolas) ... it's like a "bow", but there are similar designs of crossbows ... the second link is to a "domestic" design ... hi

        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 7 February 2021 21: 23
          +4
          Maybe someone will still be interested ... I want to give one more "link" to another video of the aforementioned "German-Laughter" ... (as it was called on one of the sites ...)
  • Undecim
    Undecim 7 February 2021 12: 23
    +6
    About the parallel use of crossbows and firearms.

    Illustration from the 12-volume book De re militari (The Art of War), written by the Italian Robertus Valturius between 1460 and 1472.
    The book is one of the most complete descriptions of medieval military equipment.
  • Mihaylov
    Mihaylov 7 February 2021 13: 17
    +6
    The first evidence of the use of crossbows (crossbows) in Russia dates back to the end of the XII century. Under 1184, when repelling the raids of the Polovtsy, "luci tuzi of self-shooting, one 20 husband can strain" were mentioned. Here, apparently we are talking about some kind of siege machine. Self-arrows are fairly well depicted in the 52th century Radziwill Chronicle, but in illustrations of the events of the second half of the 6th century. The earliest crossbow bolts were found in Novgorod, again in the layer of the second half of the 5th century, in the layer of the 19th century, a detail of the trigger was found, and in Izyaslavl, destroyed by the Mongols, a belt hook. In Russian chronicles, crossbows are usually mentioned in connection with sieges / defense of cities. The last times in the annals of crossbows were mentioned at the end of the 21th century, nevertheless, apparently it does not completely go out of use and continues to be part of the fortress arsenals of the defensive complex of cities. No details of crossbows from the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries were found, but XNUMX crossbow bolts have survived from this period. Kirpichnikov singled out XNUMX types of crossbow bolts, characteristic of the XII-XV centuries. All these types are preserved in the subsequent period. The area of ​​their application is mainly the western regions of Russia. From the collection of weapons of the Solovetsky Monastery, even the shafts of self-firing bolts have come down to us, today there are XNUMX of them (XNUMX are listed in the inventory of the XNUMXth century), and one of them with an incendiary mixture. Bolts of the early XII-XIV centuries are usually small and relatively light types, but their evolution gradually takes place in the direction of increasing weight and size, which was apparently associated with the appearance of complex crossbows. (Dvurechensky O.V. Cold weapons of the Moscow state of the XV-XVII centuries).

    Crossbow bolts from the Solovetsky Monastery.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 7 February 2021 19: 43
      +4
      Details of crossbows of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries were not found
      Parts of the crossbows of the XIV century were found. Perebykovskoe settlement.

      The picture on the left shows the tips of the bolts (1-8), parts of the crossbow (15-17), including the belt hook (16).
      In the picture on the right - a crossbow stirrup (1), details of the trigger (2).
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 7 February 2021 21: 48
        +6
        Quote: Undecim
        Parts of the crossbows of the XIV century were found. Perebykovskoe settlement.

        I looked where it was - on the site of the collapsed Galicia-Volyn land: at this time - either the Moldavian military leadership, or already the kingdom of Poland. The crossbow bolts in this region are considered by many archaeologists to be evidence of the presence of "western" garrisons, primarily Hungarian. hi
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 7 February 2021 22: 06
          +5
          The crossbow bolts in this region are considered by many archaeologists to be evidence of the presence of "western" garrisons, primarily Hungarian.
          An interesting point. Crossbow in Hungarian - szamszeríj.
          1. Mihaylov
            Mihaylov 7 February 2021 22: 16
            +5
            Quote: Undecim
            szamszeríj

            How does it read? And does that mean something? well, sort of - crossbow or something else
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 7 February 2021 22: 28
              +4
              How does it read?
              This is how "samzeriy" is read
            2. Undecim
              Undecim 7 February 2021 22: 50
              +5
              The Magyars have two variants of etymology.
              The first - from the Slavic samostrĕlъ - crossbow.
              The second is szám - a lot, szer - an instrument, íj - a bow. That is, something like a multifunctional bow, or a bow suitable for shooting different shells.
              1. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 8 February 2021 11: 08
                +4
                Quote: Undecim
                The first - from the Slavic samostrĕlъ - crossbow.
                The second is szám - a lot, szer - an instrument, íj - a bow. That is, something like a multifunctional bow, or a bow suitable for shooting different shells.

                Thanks, very interesting!
                And íj as it reads: Oops?
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 8 February 2021 11: 14
                  +4
                  Yes, "oops".
  • Aleks2000
    Aleks2000 7 February 2021 14: 21
    +5
    Yes. Excellent article
  • faterdom
    faterdom 7 February 2021 14: 46
    +4
    Thank you, very interesting and informative, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    It seems that it is not long, but the information is offered in an accessible and capacious way, I think for any age and gender. Craftsmanship.
  • Alex013
    Alex013 7 February 2021 14: 59
    +3
    Thank you for the article! Vyacheslav Olegovich, in the second part - about the Russian "crossbows"?
    1. kalibr
      7 February 2021 21: 36
      +3
      Quote: Alex013
      about the Russian "samostrely"?

      Of course not. And write about him there? What did they find rusty to the limit of pieces of iron? This is not interesting to anyone, and Victor Nikolaevich has already written everything above in the comments. There is an excellent article by Medvedev on the Web: Medvedev A.F. Hand throwing weapons (bow and arrows, crossbow) VIII-XIV centuries. / Archeology of the USSR. The collection of archaeological sources of the USSR. Under the general editorship of academician B.A. Rybakov. Issue El-36; Institute of Archeology of the USSR Academy of Sciences. M .: Publishing house "Science", 1966 p. What's the use of rewriting it, and even without pictures?
      1. Alex013
        Alex013 8 February 2021 00: 06
        +2
        I can not agree with you, a little later I will throw off the photo (Old Kadom and Ryazan)
  • Undecim
    Undecim 7 February 2021 16: 05
    +8
    Among the mechanisms for tensioning the crossbow bowstring was another - screw.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 7 February 2021 16: 23
      +6
      For those interested in the details of the history and structure of crossbows, I recommend this book.
      1. Mihaylov
        Mihaylov 7 February 2021 16: 37
        +5
        Quote: Undecim
        For those interested in the details of the history and structure of crossbows, I recommend this book.

        Yes, a good book, it is also in Russian:
      2. kalibr
        7 February 2021 21: 38
        +6
        Yes, this book is a classic of the history of the crossbow! References to it should be present in any book on weapons of the Middle Ages.
        1. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 8 February 2021 11: 20
          +7
          Once again I am convinced of the need to more often look at the site not only in "History", but also in other sections. Yesterday I didn't look - I missed an interesting article and discussion.
          Excellent material, Vyacheslav Olegovich, thank you very much, today I got real pleasure from reading both the article itself and the comments to it. good
          1. kalibr
            8 February 2021 19: 43
            +2
            Yes, Mikhail, I have a lot of materials that go into "weapons"
            1. Trilobite Master
              Trilobite Master 8 February 2021 20: 59
              +3
              I forget about it all the time. In the morning I open "History", I look - if there are no authors interesting to me, I scan through the articles with my eyes and then during the day I only look to see if there are any answers to my previous comments. Once every two or three days I remember that sometimes there may be something interesting in other sections, I look ...
              Yes, in fact, Vyacheslav Olegovich, and the fuse is not the same as before. Reluctance neither to holivar, nor to flood, nor to be clever. So, sometimes, vyalenko mumble something and that's it. Either laziness, then there is no time, then the text itself does not go - so I decided: I’m not here at work, so that I can’t get through it - it’s better to read some book or watch a historical video on YouTube, learn something new ...
              If there is something that will catch on - I will take part in the Sabbath, but if not - it is not necessary. smile
              I would have participated in this article, but ... alas, I missed it. In addition, on weekends I am still a fig fighter - sometimes I am a guest, sometimes I receive guests at my place, sometimes I will soap myself with my family ... I don't want to sit at the computer. smile
              But thank you all the same - today it was really interesting and useful to read both the article (albeit yesterday) and the comments. hi
              1. kalibr
                9 February 2021 12: 15
                +1
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                then I'll soap myself with my family ...

                This is the most important thing !!!
  • albert
    albert 8 February 2021 21: 03
    +1
    Excellent article. I am now interested in the topic of horse crossbowmen, sorry about them so little has been said. Was it isolated cases or mass detachments. And if so, then it turns out in vain that the Tolkienists drove poor Perumov?
    1. kalibr
      9 February 2021 12: 13
      +2
      Quote: albert
      I was now interested in the topic of horse crossbowmen, it's a pity so little has been said about them. Were these isolated cases or mass detachments. And if so, it turns out in vain did the Tolkienists drive poor Perumov?

      There is a completely "terrible" book in the Russian Federation "Blessed Kings". The man wrote it against the Cursed Kings. And here he has horse mounted crossbowmen driving around constantly. In fact, it was like this: they began to appear more or changing massively only with the advent of the "Nuremberg Gate", that is, when it became possible to pull the string while sitting in the saddle. But they never became a mass branch of troops. Expensive! From whom to recruit? It was a knight ... disgusting and sinful. Give a commoner a horse? Yes, not in life ... So it turned out - "there was a narrow circle of these people." They were mainly the Royal Guard!
      1. albert
        albert 9 February 2021 19: 54
        +1
        Thanks for the detailed comment and answer. hi
        1. kalibr
          9 February 2021 20: 48
          +2
          An interesting question is always a pleasure to answer.