Armenian pogroms in the Ottoman Empire

As you remember from the article The crisis of the Ottoman Empire and the evolution of the situation of the Gentiles, the first Armenians in the Ottoman state appeared after the conquest of Constantinople in 1453.

They lived here for a long time, and the first Armenian church in this city was built in the middle of the XIV century. To reduce the percentage of the Greek population in the new capital, the sultans began to resettle people of other nationalities and other religions to it. This category also includes the Armenians, who, although they were Christians, did not obey the Greek patriarch.

In 1475-1479. Crimean Armenians appeared in Constantinople, in 1577 - Armenians from Nakhichevan and Tabriz. Armenia itself was conquered by the Ottomans under Sultan Selim II - in the XNUMXth century. But, in addition to Constantinople and Armenia proper, people of this nationality also lived in Cilicia, in the vilayets of Van, Bitlis and Harput.

For centuries, Armenians were considered a “reliable nation” (Millet-i Sadika) and had the status of dhimmi (“protected”). They paid jizya (poll tax) and haraj (land tax), as well as military fees (since the Gentiles did not serve in the Ottoman army and, therefore, did not shed their blood for the empire).

But their situation in Turkey was not particularly difficult. Moreover, the Armenians were traditionally part of the cultural and economic elite of the Ottoman state, which caused the envy and displeasure of many ethnic Turks. While the empire flourished, won victories on land and at sea, expanding in all directions, this discontent was restrained.

However, with the beginning of the crisis of the Ottoman state, failures were increasingly explained by the intrigues of the Gentiles. Muhajirs, Muslims who moved from the lost territories of the Transcaucasus and the Balkan Peninsula, were especially intolerant of the Christians of the Ottoman Empire. And the formerly tolerant sultans and viziers, in the hope of "letting off steam from the overheated cauldron," now supported such sentiments in society.

The beginning of the Armenian pogroms

The first large-scale Armenian pogroms began at the end of the 1894th century (in 1896–1899 and in XNUMX) under the reign of Sultan Abdul Hamid II. However, French ambassador Pierre Paul Cambon, describing the "Massacre of Hamid", reports that at that time in Turkey Christians were killed "without distinction" - that is, not only Armenians.

Gilbert Keith Chesterton said then:

"I don't know what oriental sweets are, but I suspect that this is a massacre of Christians."

This sultan, moreover, was the son of a Circassian woman and in his harem (according to his daughter, Aishe-Sultan) there was not a single Christian woman, which sharply distinguishes him from a series of other Ottoman rulers, whose beloved wives and concubines were often Armenian and Greek ...

Abdul Hamid II (1842-1918) - Sultan of the Ottoman Empire and 99th Caliph; known for his attempts to preserve the crumbling empire, relying on the ideology of pan-Islamism. Admirer of the work of I. Aivazovsky, whose paintings he collected. After the news of the Armenian pogroms, the artist sent a letter to the Sultan demanding that his works be thrown into the sea.

The victims of those pogroms, according to various researchers, were from 80 thousand to 300 thousand people. Other outbreaks of violence were recorded in Adana in 1902 and in 1909, where, in addition to Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks also suffered. Muhajirs moved to the "liberated" lands.

After the assassination attempt on Abdul-Hamid II at the Yildiz Mosque of Constantinople on July 21, 1905, organized by members of the Dashnaktsutyun party (founded in Tiflis in 1890), this sultan's attitude towards the Armenians, as you understand, did not improve. Abdul-Hamid then survived only because he stopped to talk with Sheikh-ul-Islam: the clockwork worked earlier, the explosion was so powerful that the performer himself died (a certain Zarekh, a militant who participated in the robbery of the Ottoman bank in 1896), and a lot of random people.

As you know, everything ended with the large-scale massacre of Armenians in 1915, which took place during the reign of Mehmed V, the younger brother of Abdul Hamid II.

The famous Fatih law had already been abolished (in 1876), but the traditions remained. And before accession to the throne, Mehmed lived in constant fear for his life: he was under constant supervision and had no right to talk on the phone.

Mehmed V at the ceremony of taklid seif - girding with a sword "(Osman I) - May 10, 1909 The heads of the Greek and Armenian Churches, as well as the Chief Rabbi of Constantinople, were for the first time invited to this ceremony.

The author of this drawing flattered the new sultan: it is known that he was so fat that it was with difficulty that it was possible to gird him with the sword of Osman.

Sword of Osman I ("Sword of Islam"). Made similar to Al-Battar - the sword of the Prophet Muhammad, which, according to legend, previously belonged to Goliath and King David, and was captured during the siege of Medina (the city was defended by the Jewish tribe of Banu-Kainuk) in 624. Stored in Top Caps

Mehmed V and his government

Mehmed V was no longer a sovereign sultan: he had to coordinate all his actions with the leaders of the Ittikhat ("Unity and Progress") party, and since 1909, power in the country ended up with the "Young Turk Triumvirate", which included Enver Pasha, Talaat Pasha and Jemal Pasha.

Enver Pasha, Jemal Pasha, Talaat Pasha. On the night of November 3, they were taken to Germany on a German steamer, in December 1918 they were accused of involving Turkey in the world war and organizing the massacre of Armenians, sentenced in absentia to death in their homeland.

Meanwhile, the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire were still trying to establish cooperation with the authorities, hoping that the deterioration of their situation was temporary, and soon the Sultan and his entourage would return to dialogue with them.

During the Balkan Wars, more than 8 Armenians volunteered for the Turkish army. But at the same time, the leaders of "Dashnaktsutyun" after the outbreak of the First World War declared that the Armenians of each of the warring parties should be loyal to their government. This caused the displeasure of the Turkish authorities, who called for an uprising not only to Muslims, but also to the Armenians of the Russian Empire, promising to create an autonomous Armenian region after the victory.

Armenian massacre of 1915

In November 1914, the authorities of the Ottoman Empire declared jihad against the Christians at war with Turkey. This further inflamed the situation in this country, and caused the killings of the Gentiles, not yet sanctioned by the authorities. So, from November 1914 to April 1915. about 27 thousand Armenians and many Assyrians were killed (the exact number of victims on their part has not yet been counted).

During the Sarikamysh operation (January 1915), the Minister of Defense of the Ottoman Empire, Ismail Enver (Enver Pasha), was saved by an Armenian officer during one of the battles: Enver even sent a letter to the Armenian Archbishop of Konya, in which he expressed gratitude to the Armenians for their loyalty.

But after the defeat of the Turkish army, he blamed the failure of the traitors, the Armenians, whom he urged to evict from the regions adjacent to the Russian Empire. All the soldiers of Armenian nationality were disarmed (many of them were later killed), Armenians were forbidden to own weapons (they received this right only in 1908).

The first repressions began in Cilicia - in the city of Zeitun, where 3 thousand Turkish soldiers were brought in. Part of the Armenian men fled to a suburban monastery, besieging which the Turks lost 300 people. It seems surprising, but the Armenians themselves convinced the "rebels" to stop resistance and surrender - so great was their desire to keep the peace with the Ottoman authorities. All the surrendered Armenians were killed, and then it was the turn of the "compromisers": they were evicted from their homes and sent to the desert area of ​​Der Zor in the territory of Konya province.

On April 19, 1915, the killing of Armenians began in the Van province (up to 50 thousand people died). Having fortified in their part of the city, the Armenians resisted until May 16, when the Russian army approached. However, after 6 weeks the Russians were forced to retreat, and many local Armenians left with them to the territory of Russia.

On April 24, 1915, 235 prominent representatives of the Armenian diaspora were arrested and subsequently killed in Constantinople, and soon the number of those deported exceeded 5 thousand. At the same time, the arrests of Armenians began in Adana and Alexandretta.

On May 9 it was the turn of the Armenians of Eastern Anatolia.

And finally, on May 30, 1915, the Majlis of the Ottoman Empire approved the "Law on Deportation", on the basis of which reprisals against Armenians began in all regions.

In July 1915, part of the Armenians living near Antioch went to the mountains, where they held out for 7 weeks. Some of them later ended up in the French Foreign Legion.

The Armenians of Constantinople and Edirne suffered less than others, since the embassies and consulates of European countries were located in these cities. The order to deport the Armenians was also ignored by the Governor of Smyrna, Rahmi-bey, who stated that their eviction would destroy the foreign trade of this city.

In other places, for the "better organization" of reprisals and deportations, special detachments - "Chettes", subordinate to the Minister of Internal Affairs Talaat Pasha (in the future - the Grand Vizier), were created, which included criminals released from prison: they "helped" the army, "Special organizations "Behaeddin Shakir, police and" activists ". Talaat was frank, speaking in the circle of his subordinates:

"The purpose of the deportation of Armenians is nothingness."

Muslim neighbors on pain of death were forbidden to shelter Armenians and help them in any way.

Most often, the Armenians were treated as follows: adult men capable of resisting were immediately separated from their families and taken out of the settlements, where they were shot or cut. Young Armenian girls were sometimes transferred to one of the Muslim men, but more often they were simply raped.

The rest were driven to desert regions. Sometimes only a fifth reached the place of deportation; many of the survivors died from hunger and disease. So that their path was not “too easy,” Mehmet Reshid, the governor of Diyarbekir, ordered that horseshoes be nailed to the feet of the deportees. Later this example was followed in other cities.

However, sometimes they preferred not to take these defenseless Armenians away, but to kill them on the spot - they were cut and stabbed with bayonets, sometimes they were burned in closed houses and stables or drowned in barges. In total, then about 150 thousand Armenians were destroyed (only in the city of Khynys - 19 thousand people, in the city of Bitlis - 15 thousand). However, this is a minimum figure: sometimes the number of victims is increased to 800 thousand, and some authors (for example, Shaan Natalie, which will be discussed in the next article) - up to one and a half million.

It is also known about the experiments on the Armenians by the Ottoman professor Hamdi Suat, who tried to find a cure for typhus. After the war, he was placed in a psychiatric hospital, and then declared the founder of Turkish bacteriology; the Suat House Museum operates in Istanbul.

On this slide, the words are highlighted: ÇaĞdaŞ Türk Patolojİsİnİn Kurucusu - "Founder of Modern Turkish Pathology"

Already on May 24, 1915, Great Britain, France and Russia condemned Turkey in a joint declaration, recognizing the massacres of Armenians as a crime against humanity.

However, the massacres against the Armenians continued until the autumn of 1916: up to 65 thousand Armenians were expelled from Erzurum alone (many of them were killed). Isolated episodes of massacres were noted up to the surrender of Turkey in 1918. And in September 1917, the Armenian and Greek quarters in the city of Smyrna (Izmir) were destroyed.

This was discussed in the article Birth of the Turkish Republic.

It should be said that in parallel with the Armenians on the territory of the Ottoman Empire, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks were also destroyed at that time. In Greece, the events of those years are called the "Great Catastrophe". From 1900 to 1922 the Christian population of the same Anatolia decreased from 25 to 5%. And in modern Turkey, the share of Christians in the population is less than 1%.

At present, there are monuments dedicated to the victims of the Armenian massacre of 1915 in 22 countries of the world. Besides Armenia, they can be seen in France, in the USA (3), Canada, Bulgaria, Russia (2 - Rostov, Izhevsk), Australia, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Austria, Hungary, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Georgia, India, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt, Syria and Cyprus.

Tsitsernakaberd Memorial, Armenia

Monument in Burgas, Bulgaria

Monument in Izhevsk

In the next article we will talk about the situation in Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh. And also - about the operation "Nemesis" for the physical destruction of Turkish dignitaries, guilty of organizing the massacres of Armenians in 1915-1916, and the leaders of Azerbaijan, involved in the massacre of Armenians in Shusha and Baku in 1918-1920, initiated by Hakob Ter-Hakobyan, better known as Shaan (Shagan) Natali.

Comments

[Crowe]

The Turks did not recognize the Armenian genocide.

[nsm1]

And they don't.
No benefit to them.

[mat-vey]

Quote: nsm1

And they don't.

and to force, as there is no one to force the Germans

[Hunter 2]

Quote: Crowe

The Turks did not recognize the Armenian genocide.

Actually, it would be more correct to call it the genocide of the Christians of the Ottoman Empire, since not only Armenians suffered, but also Greeks, Assyrians and other non-Muslims. This unjustified cruelty, in fact, led in the future to the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, along with other circumstances, and the hatred generated in those days continues to live today.
Author - Respect, waiting for the continuation.

[Let's go to the world]

Shiites, Jews, Arabs and Kurds of all faiths suffered

[vladcub]

Perhaps, in the 70s, it semiofficially recognized, and the current "Sultan" rather itself "bells" of trimming, and does not recognize

[Xlor]

So there was no genocide. And there is nothing to recognize

[Seal]

And what about us, to recognize the "genocide of Jews and Baltic Germans" of the same 1915?
And our refugees also had enormous problems.
https://shperk.livejournal.com/191225.html

The bulk of the refugees, who did not get on the trains, moved to the rear along the highways and dirt roads in carts and even on foot. It was a terrible sight. Refugees - hungry, exhausted, ragged, sick - slowly dragged along the roads, burying children and old people who could not withstand the difficulties of the road by the side of the road. The corpses of horses along the retreat roads were a different sign. Moving to their destinations, the refugees sowed panic and demoralized the rear, spreading diseases. However, in the end there were not enough highways and dirt roads. In a number of districts, refugees walked like a solid wall, trampling bread, spoiling meadows and forests, leaving a desert behind them. Not only the near, but also the deep rear of the Russian army were devastated, ruined, deprived of the last reserves.
The retreat of the army was accompanied by a massive forced eviction of Jews from the abandoned areas. In April-May 1915, Jews were evicted from the front-line districts of Kovno, Kurland (the Courland Germans, who greeted the German troops with jubilation, were left in Courland!), Suwalk and Grodno provinces. These refugees included about 200 elderly people, women and children. Some of them were put on freight cars and cattle cars, and they were transported, truly like cattle, without letting them out of the cars at the stations. The crying of children, the sobbing and groaning of mothers, the prayer chants of the elderly were in the air. Initially, Jews were taken to the deep rear in the left-bank Ukraine and in the eastern regions of Belarus, but in August 000 the Pale of Settlement had to be temporarily canceled and "Jewish refugees" were allowed into the internal Great Russian provinces during the war. I happened to see some of these refugees in the autumn and winter of 1915 in Saratov, and their stories about the "evacuation" could not be heard without indignation and pain.
The eviction of Jews was forced and massive. On May 3, 1915, Jews with their wives and children were expelled from all of Courland. The Jews in Mittava were given a period of one day to leave. On May 5, Jews were expelled from Kovno and Ponevezh. On this day, tens of thousands of Jews were evicted from the Kovno province and the city of Kovno. The eviction was accompanied by robberies and violence. The “Jewish refugees,” as they were officially called in the newspapers, said that Lithuania had been plundered even before the arrival of German troops. The army, retreating, drove in front of itself masses of exhausted and ruined Jews. Jewish shops in the evacuated areas were taken over by Poles and Lithuanians. The hostages - rabbis and eminent members of Jewish communities - were threatened with execution or a gallows if the Jewish population, which remained despite the orders for evacuation in the evacuated cities and towns, would be friendly to the German troops.
The retreat from Lithuania was the worst tragedy compared to the retreat on other sectors of the front. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers and carts blocked highways and country roads, driving away refugees of various nationalities - Lithuanians, Poles, Latvians, Jews. The entire population of Lithuania suffered from pogroms and violence, but the Jewish population suffered the most. In August and September 1915, pogroms of Jews were organized by retreating military units in the Vilnius, Vitebsk and Minsk provinces: many towns were looted and destroyed, hundreds of houses were burnt and destroyed, old men and children were killed and mutilated, women and girls were raped. Smorgon, Pastava, Krevo, Glubokoe, Dokshitsa, Lemeshkevichi were particularly affected. Soldiers and Cossacks, under the pretext of searching for Germans hidden by Jews, burst into houses, robbed, broke things, raped women. Jews fled to the woods. In the town of Plottsy, a group of Jewish soldiers in arms knocked out the Cossacks from the old synagogue, where they broke the ark, tore the Torah scrolls and raped the women. In Smorgon, a sick old man Sable was shot dead in front of children by a Cossack officer. In Minsk, the Cossacks drove women and girls into the forest and raped them.
German propaganda made extensive use of this environment of brutality and savagery. The Germans scattered proclamations in Poland and Lithuania with the appeal: "Jews, remember the Beilis case! Remember Chisinau and other pogroms!"
This description, compiled by Jews, is there really something fundamentally different from the description of the deportation of Armenians, compiled by the Armenians?

[Seal]

The results of the 1914 census in Turkey (enclosed).

Total, Armenians 1283704 people. Just in case, I inform you that the head of the statistical department, which conducted the census, was the Armenian Mkrtich Shinabyan.
Then we count.
Constantinople - 200 Armenians waited for the landing of the Entente representatives in December 000.
Further. The Armenians flooded the entire Internet with statements that in 1915 the Russian tsar opened the Russian-Turkish border and saved 375 thousand Armenians who came over to our side. I do not understand at point-blank which border we are talking about, since in 1915 there was not a border between our countries, but a front line.
But, nevertheless, maybe the Armenians meant that our Nicholas II ordered to let the Armenians through the front line. In any case, 375 thousand Armenians plus.
Further. From 100 thousand to 200 hundred thousand of the resettled Armenians nevertheless reached their destinations in Syria and Iraq.
Well, let's count to a minimum. Or so that 200 thousand got there, but only half survived in difficult conditions, that is, 100 thousand.
That is, we add another 100 thousand.
Next, let's pay attention to such an event as the "massacre in Smyrna" in 1922.
We read. The Turks first blocked the harbor with warships, but then, under pressure from the powers, they allowed evacuation, except for men from 17 to 45 (according to other sources, from 15 to 50) years old, who were declared interned and subject to deportation to the interior for forced labor, “what was regarded as a sentence to life slavery by cruel owners, ending in a mysterious death. " The evacuation period was given until September 30; after that day, all those who remained were also subject to deportation to forced labor. An American pastor, YMCA employee Asa Jennings played an important role in organizing the evacuation; it was thanks to his efforts that on September 23 a hastily assembled Greek flotilla arrived at the port under the protection of American ships. Japanese ships threw out all their cargo to take on board as many refugees as possible. In the immediate aftermath of the massacre, 400.000 refugees from Smyrna were registered receiving Red Cross assistance.
The number of those killed in different sources varies from 60 thousand to 260 thousand.
According to R.ummel, the average figure is 183 thousand Greeks and 12 thousand Armenians. Gilles Milton estimated that 100.000 people died in the massacre, another 160.000 men were deported to the interior of Anatolia, and most of them died on the road.
I think it will not be an exaggeration to think that out of 400 thousand refugees, 150 thousand were Armenians.
And another 50 thousand Armenians died. But these are the Armenians whom no one prevented from leaving Turkey in the period from 1919 to 1922. Okay, let's just leave 150 thousand refugees.
Total: 200 Istanbul-Armenians + 000 Armenians who crossed the border (front line) + 375 Armenians who survived in the places of their resettlement + 000 Armenians from Smyrna refugees = 100 Armenians SAVED.
Oh yes, there are still unaccounted for. These are Armenians who converted to Islam.
We read it here: https://hayduk.livejournal.com/379705.html
He stressed that in 1915, when the genocide against the Armenians began, the latter were faced with a choice - to die or convert to Islam. The choice to accept Islam, in turn, was aimed at assimilating and exterminating Armenians in a similar way. “The western consuls of that time wrote with surprise that the Armenians were queuing up to accept Islam. Realizing that the Armenians who have changed their faith will again convert to the Christian faith, a decision is made to prohibit the Armenians from converting to Islam. The very next year, in 1916, the Armenians were again allowed to convert to Islam, and the Armenians already knew for sure - either Der Zor or Islam. The adoption of Islam by the Armenians was so large-scale that a decision was made especially for them, according to which they were not allowed to move from one vilayet to another. To move, they needed to obtain a permit from Istanbul, after which they would have a stamp on the back of their passports. Armenians who had changed their faith were recognized in the same way. Republican Turkey declares that it has nothing to do with the Ottoman Empire, is not its heir. However, this coding story proves that the Turkish Republic inherited such an attitude, and such discrimination existed even before the Lausanne Treaty, ”Shakaryan stressed.
Nobody knows how many Armenians converted to Islam, since by that time there were many Muslim Armenians in Turkey (the so-called Hamshens). But I think it will not be an exaggeration to say that about 300 thousand Armenians have converted to Islam. We also add them.
The total number of surviving Armenians has become 875 + 000 = 300.
Even if only 125 thousand Armenians converted to Islam, it means that there are already 1 MILLION Armenians who survived.
Oh yes, part of the Armenians managed to survive in their native places without converting to Islam. They were rescued by their neighbors, Turks and Kurds. There are another 100 thousand. Total Armenians survived from 1 to 100.
In total, according to the 1914 census, there were 1 Armenians.

[Suren Hakobyan]

Everything is simple here:
1.The census includes PERSONS (citizens) of the Ottoman Empire;
2. At this time, many did not have passports like second-class people;
3. Some regions at that time were part of Russia, which the Bolsheviks later transferred to Turkey by signing the so-called "friendship" agreement in 1921. (see the Moscow Treaty of 1921), these areas during the genocide were de jure part of Russia, but de facto under Turkey, therefore, the Armenians of these areas are not included in the census list.

[Seal]

1. Yes, subjects (citizens) of the Ottoman Empire were taken into account;
2. In the USSR, universal certification ended only on 31.12.1981. It was only in 1974 that rural residents of the USSR finally decided to issue passports, although it was forbidden to accept them in cities for work. And what do you think the general censuses in the USSR, conducted every 10 years, did not take rural residents into account? In fact, having passports has nothing to do with it. They do not copy passports, but people. If it was all about passports, then the census could not be carried out at all, it is enough to know the statistics on the number of issued and canceled passports. But even such a small country as Armenia, for some reason, in 2011 conducted a census, and not just counted the issued passports.
3. What does the "time of genocide" have to do with it? The census was carried out in early 1914. In general, can you clearly explain which areas of Turkey during the census were allegedly de jure part of the Russian Empire, but de facto were allegedly part of the Ottoman Empire?
4. And enough of the tales about the Moscow Treaty. Russia lost the First World War. And she was forced to conclude a peace (Brest-Litovsk Treaty of 1918) with huge territorial losses. Including in the Transcaucasia. But as you know, the Brest Peace Treaty did not recognize the Transcaucasian Seim. Let me remind you that following the results of its war with the Turks of Mustafa Kemal, who rebelled against the Sultan, in December 1920 concluded the Peace of Alexandropol with the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. And the Moscow Treaty was just this Treaty of Alexandropol and canceled. If you do not like the Moscow Treaty of 1921, please contact us and Erdogan with a request to cancel it. And if the Moscow Treaty of 1921 is canceled, the Treaty of Alexandropol, 1920, will automatically restore its legal force and you will be happy.

[Lech from Android.]

I remember the famous phrase from the movie "Come and See" ... as the SS man said ... You shouldn't be there.
I have seen enough of what they did to the Armenians in the recent war in Karabakh ... as if the last century returned to our reality again ... the civilized gloss quickly flies from people and they simply turn into sadists and animals. Under certain conditions, the massacre of Armenians may repeat itself again, Armenians should always remember this ... as well as us. In Ukraine, the Russian-speaking population may find itself in the same situation if the local Bandera members are given free rein.
Thanks to the author for the article.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Lech from Android.

.In Ukraine, the Russian-speaking population may find itself in the same situation if the local Bandera members are given free rein.

The Russian-speaking people in Armenia may find themselves in the same situation ... The former republics of the USSR have already shown in practice ... and some Russian ones are the same ..

[icant007]

Quote: mat-vey

Russian speakers in Armenia may find themselves in the same position.

Yes, they have not been there for a long time.

[mat-vey]

Quote: icant007

Quote: mat-vey

Russian speakers in Armenia may find themselves in the same position.

Yes, they have not been there for a long time.

There are military men and their families.

[210ox]

These are citizens of Russia. By the way, Armenia is now a mono-national republic.

[mat-vey]

Quote: 210ox

These are citizens of Russia.

Are they supposedly “occupants?” So they say that not everything is going smoothly with nationalism there - and there are not those among their minorities ...

[nsm1]

She has always been like that.

[nsm1]

You obviously don't know about Armenia.
Russian-speaking people were always driven there, and under the USSR it was exactly the same.
Armenia has always been the most mono-national among all the republics of the former USSR.
Once I read the memoirs of a specialist in electric machines, it was impossible to write directly, but you can understand, like “it became impossible to work, I had to look for at least some place,” outside of Armenia in the sense.
Now the share of Russians there does not reach 0,5%

[mat-vey]

Quote: nsm1

You obviously don't know about Armenia.
Russian-speaking people were always driven there, and under the USSR it was exactly the same.

and what is worse "may become" or "already is, was"?

[krot]

Quote: nsm1

Once I read the memoirs of a specialist in electrical machines, it was impossible to write directly, but you can understand, like "it became impossible to work, I had to look for at least some place" outside Armenia

Remind your name and the name of the professional that you have read the memoirs? If you have not forgotten!

[mat-vey]

Quote: krot

Remind me of the surname and name of this specialist whom you read your memoirs? laughing If you haven't forgotten!

You are confusing me with someone ..

[krot]

Quote: nsm1

If you know how to read, you will see who was the appeal .. But no matter how not to you! )

[mat-vey]

Quote: krot

Quote: nsm1

If you know how to read, you will see who was the appeal .. But no matter how not to you! )

The branch notified me, and your post may not reach your addressee if you do not specifically view the dialogues.

[krot]

The branch notified me

Otherwise, it will not work out here, there is only one branch!

[mat-vey]

Well, you answer me? And I tell you ... And the arrow shows what exactly to you ...

[krot]

This is not your branch, note .. And to whom my words were intended, were brought to the addressee)

[mat-vey]

Quote: krot

This is not your branch, note

For your information once again - the notification came to me, the arrow from your post pointed to the answer to me. There are complaints - to the administration, or you just need to be more careful.

[krot]

What are you trying to prove to me? What are the claims to the site, what are you talking about? Personally, everything suits me .. And as I want, I write, and to whom my words were addressed, I even indicated a link and wrote his nickname You do not read at all, but amuse yourself only with your arrows? ) Throw your boringness!
I bowed for the sim.

[mat-vey]

Quote: krot

What are you trying to prove to me?

It’s you all rushing about ... clicked the wrong place and already half a dozen posts from empty to empty ..

[aybolyt678]

Turkey promoted pan-Islamism, they declared that all those who accepted Islam in the occupied territories would not be persecuted and massacred. Allegedly, it is enough for this to say the phrase "la illa il alla ve mahomet rasul alla" three times there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet. It is not clear how harshly the Armenians were destroyed, purely on the basis of ethnicity, or all the same for Christianity?

[Lech from Android.]

purely on a national basis or is it still for Christianity?

I think more on ethnic grounds ... what is surprising in the extermination of the Armenians also took part in the Kurds, who are now spread rot by the Turks on all fronts.

[Alex013]

Rather religious. Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians and other Christians were mixed. And the Kurds (Muslims) were nomads, then the Turks made them sedentary, just in the deserted lands of Kars, etc.

[Seal]

Rather territorially. Since, for example, the 200-hundred thousandth Armenian community of Constantinople practically did not suffer. What, by the way, is indicated in the article. Although this

On April 24, 1915, 235 prominent representatives of the Armenian diaspora were arrested in Constantinople and subsequently killed, soon the number of those deported exceeded 5 thousand.

have questions. Firstly, to the number of those arrested, and secondly, to the fact that all those arrested were allegedly killed later.
Here is from the work of John Kirakosyan "Young Turks before the Court of History".

20 leaders of the Hnchak party, accused of striving "to create an independent Armenia and secession from the Ottoman government, were hanged" (195, p. 6).

For example: Aram Andonyan. Born in Constantinople. He edited the Armenian magazines "Luys" ("Light") and "Dzagik" ("Flower") and the newspaper "Surkhandak" ("Bulletin"). Then Andonian continued his service in the military censorship department of the Ottoman Empire. He was arrested by order of the Minister of Internal Affairs of the Ottoman Empire, Talat Pasha, on the eve of April 24, 1915, and joined the large number of Armenian nobility deported from the Ottoman capital. Andonian was deported to Chankiri, then, halfway there, returned to Ankara and was again deported to the camps in Ras al-Ain and Mesken. However, Andonian went underground in Aleppo, where he waited for the arrival of British troops.

More offhand. Soghomon Soghomonyan pseudonym "Komitas". He was arrested and deported to a prisoner of war camp in April 1915 by the Ottoman government. Soon he was released under unclear circumstances.

[nsm1]

While Turkey was promoting pan-Islamism, there was no particular persecution, there were no analogues of the Inquisition there.
But when, following the example of European countries, the Turks switched to a nationalist agenda, the pogroms began.

[Sergey Sfiedu]

By the way, the Arabs (albeit Muslims) also fell for disloyalty and separatism.

[Korsar4]

It is difficult for yourself to cross the threshold for the first time.
And then the smell of blood around - and away we go. And it is already unclear how much human remains in a person.

[aybolyt678]

Quote from Korsar4

And it is already unclear how much human remains in a person.

food, sex, and dominance are all animal instincts. What is in a human being?

[Korsar4]

The lower steps of the Maslow pyramid.
There is also altruism and self-realization.

However, in "The Sea Wolf" by Jack London, much is described. And Spencer is not mentioned for nothing.

[Catfish]

Valery, of course, thanks, but the reading did not add to the mood. It is scary to think what a person turns into if, by the will of fate or the rulers, everything that was previously hidden under the guise of decency spills out.
You can talk as much as you like about the eternal antagonism between Christians and Muslims, but reading this article, I all the time recalled the Nazi death camps with the extermination of people of all nationalities and confessions set on stream.
It's not about nationality and faith, but about the person himself, probably ...

[Korsar4]

And from what it will add.
Find the culprit. A pebble rolled. And the avalanche cannot be stopped.

[Catfish]

All this is sad ... Hi Sergey, good morning.

[Korsar4]

Good morning, Constantine!

People are good.
But the system cannot fail to leave an imprint.
And sometimes the system becomes violent and aggressive. Up to madness.

[Catfish]

People are good.

Yeah, there, again some kind of mister got out with minuses and, most importantly, almost everyone.

[Lech from Android.]

Yeah, there, again some kind of mister got out with minuses and, most importantly, almost everyone.

A detachment of members of the forum VO with a traitor inside ... as in a famous joke.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Lech from Android.

A detachment of members of the forum VO with a traitor inside ... as in a famous joke.

Do you simply exclude people with problems regardless of citizenship?

[Lech from Android.]

Do you simply exclude people with problems regardless of citizenship?

I do not exclude ... therefore I do not indicate either nationality or citizenship ... everyone has their own cockroaches in their heads.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Lech from Android.

everyone has their own cockroaches in their heads.

Yes, fatty)))

[Catfish]

It is necessary to poison the cockroaches, otherwise they will devour the cortex ... of the brain.

[Catfish]

People "with problems" need to go to the doctors and treat their health, and not shit around in order to amuse their ego.

[mat-vey]

Quote: Sea Cat

People "with problems" need to go to the doctors and treat their health, and not shit around in order to amuse their ego.

But am I against it?

[Catfish]

So let's drink to the unity of opinion, Colleague! (but not in the morning)

[mat-vey]

Quote: Sea Cat

(but not in the morning)

The country is big, somewhere it's not morning anymore) ..

[Catfish]

Tell me, I don't remember something.

[Korsar4]

I would like to know the character behind the mask?

[Korsar4]

Can you explain why it bothers you?
If it's a lunge, it goes by.

[Catfish]

No, what is offending there, I just don’t like ciliates with a communal kitchen complex: no one sees - I’ll spit into my neighbor’s pot.

[Korsar4]

Then it makes sense to start with what is in our pans?

[Catfish]

Well, if, figuratively speaking, by "saucepan" you mean your own pot, then - yes. You marked it well.

[Korsar4]

Just a model. And the model of a communal apartment is no worse than any other.

[Catfish]

And the model of a communal apartment is no worse than any other.

! Not worse ... "You just didn't live in a communal apartment.

[Korsar4]

Didn't live. And I have never been a Muscovite, and a Petersburger either.
And, in general, was born a little later.

True, in childhood there were all sorts of living conditions - but not for long.
And he filled the "Chinese dormitory" in the apartment with his own children. And even then the elders have grown.

[Catfish]

So I was not born in Moscow either. Father was transferred to the capital in the late forties and at first he had to live in a hotel and in a communal apartment, and his childhood memory is very strong.))

[Korsar4]

Yes. There are things from preschool time that are etched into the memory.

[Catfish]

"And the memory speaks with the heart" (c)

[Korsar4]

https://stihi.ru/2001/11/20-264

[Catfish]

I have problems with loading, my computer went to Moscow for a major overhaul, and I'm sitting on a fossil laptop, wants to load, does not want to not load. Yearning...

[Korsar4]

Also from the tablet.
20 years ago inspired by:

I look out the window. To the white page.
And I understand in the silence of the night:
That I managed to fall in love from childhood,
What the candle light will remind you of.

Favorite bench by the stove.
Firewood in the basket. Miracle of miracles -
Fire like a sparkling heart
Starts up a dance. The mystery of heaven ...

[Catfish]

Thank you, I liked it very much, especially since I am now alone, Masha has left on business in Moscow. The house is empty and even the cat does not save.

[Korsar4]

In your direction. From the Moscow Region Meschera to the Ryazan region - a stone's throw.

[Korsar4]

Then I'll continue.
On the same topic:

Simple things: ladle, cast iron
From childhood, they comfortably nestled in my memory.
The style is changing. But this image got out.
I couldn't do anything with him.

More and more colorful tinsel.
The coloring masks the essence ominously.
The basis of the memorable game
Unbreakable. And there are simple things in it.

[Catfish]

Ok, I like it.))

[Korsar4]

Until dawn is not so long. And the computer will be repaired. And spring is just around the corner.

From the Meeting, you can meet her when a gypsy sells a fur coat.

[Catfish]

Sorry, something overcame me sharply, thumped into the bunk and slept for four hours.
It's good about the gypsy, in the sense of spring, a humane gypsy, he steals a fur coat when spring is on its way.))

[Korsar4]

And good. 4 hours of sleep gives you vigor.

I like to divide the day into 4 hour segments.
And even better - like the Japanese: for two hours.
I heard, for sure: the hour of the bull, the hour of the hare, the hour of the bird.

[Catfish]

I heard, of course, but I read Efremov's "Hour of the Bull" at one time. Only with courage I somehow do not really, crawl around the house like a sleeping fish. And the mood, in general, is normal.

[Korsar4]

And I really like this designation of time: an hour between a wolf and a dog.

[Catfish]

As it was with Shtilmark:
"What, wolves, did you feel cramped on the same road as the leopard?"

[Korsar4]

But Shtilmark I did not get in time.

But Bagheera is also good (or good).

[Catfish]

Favorite childhood book about pirates, not counting, of course, "Captain Blood".
And Bagheera, probably, is still her.))

[Korsar4]

This is in our translation.
And Shtilmark's son is a respected person in the environmental movement.

The pirate theme is mine. Sail time, of course.

[Catfish]

There were also moments in the steam fleet, Georges Blond entitled his story about "Emden" - "The Last Corsair", but it was a unique story.
No desire to write something about pirate everyday life, for example about Drake's trip around the world?

[Korsar4]

There is. But not in the next year.
In February I will pay off the promissory note to Anton. Then - a pause for exactly 2-3 months.

Drake is well known.
And the same Dampir deserves close attention.

And I would start with the theme: "Ship Forest".

[Catfish]

Yes, Dampir was also a cartographer, he did a lot of useful things besides his main "work". But Drake, engaged in desperate robbery, simultaneously made maps of the east and west coasts of South America, the very one that the Spaniards carefully concealed from everyone.
From the pirate cohort, I am also interested in Thomas Dover, the captain-doctor, his tincture, go, is used to this day.

And I would start with the theme: "Ship Forest".

So what was the matter?

[Korsar4]

Probably behind a virtual piece of paper planned for the year 2021.

Although here you can kill two birds with one stone.
But I definitely won't take it before September. And during this time, a lot of water will leak.

Returning to the circumnavigation: more interesting about Captain Cook and the botanist Forster.

[Catfish]

I know Cook, of course, but I don't remember about Forster, unfortunately. But Cook, this is no longer a pirate, but an "honest navigator".
And what kind of "bill before Anton"?

[Korsar4]

Collected in a pile a couple of dozen slides about the use of pollen analysis, slash farming and all sorts of fantasies.

He promised to comment on the first of them in human language in February.

[Catfish]

For me, this topic is terra incognita.

[Korsar4]

Hoped the week would be freer. But nobody canceled Parkinson's law.

[Pane Kohanku]

And the same Dampir deserves close attention.

An unlucky pirate and expedition leader, but a talented writer? Mozheiko enthusiastically described the pirate expedition to Arica at the end of the 17th century. There was also such a man-orchestra as Bartholomew Sharp.

[Fat]

Nikolay! Figs with them, corsairs. Take Mr. Mann, This environmental inspector created a corporation that has been making the weather in sport fishing for about 30 years ... It's the near past. And these are "pirate" everyday life. Which might be worth writing about. In the end, "Rosokhotrybolovpotrebsoyuz" is an organization close to "defense" ... I keep old boxes from spoons and can still read what is displayed there ...

[Catfish]

Andrew, hello.
As soon as they called me in my life, but Nicholas for the first time.
But I also don't know anything about Mr. Mann, because I was not fond of fishing and I am not a fisherman. Once, I remember, on the Black Sea I planted a hefty scarpene on a trident, I didn't even shoot. She is a lazy fish and, due to her toxicity, is not afraid of anyone, even the exhaust of air from the apparatus never frightened her. I slightly pushed her with a harpoon, she swam half a meter and again belly to the ground, I became brutal with such impudence and just poked her with a trident like a fork. Planted and dragged up. So the local guys cut off the fins and head off her, and bungled such an ear - you just lick your fingers. It was in Laspi Bay in the early eighties. That's all my "fishing" experience.

[Fat]

Fucked up, Constantine. Forgive me generously ... I argue with myself more
Grinding with a flimsy brain, with a creak, the main text ...

[Fat]

Sergey, the savvy Gypsy sells a fur coat in November!

[Korsar4]

Grandpa Shchukar will confirm if that.

[Fat]

Yes! November, tyap-tyap and may ...

[depressant]

I still remember the pot! At my grandmother's, in the Kuban village. And a grip to get it out of the red-hot oven vent. And a summer stove in front of the house. Do not drown the inside in the heat. Inspired ...

[Catfish]

You can find anything in the village stoves. The peasants once undertook to shift the stove in a granny's hut. The old bricks were all home-made, one brick broke and a Nagant, wrapped in a rag, fell out of it. The grandson goggled his eyes: "Where from?"
And grandma says: "Grandfathers."
Grandson: "Why didn't you tell me?"
And she answered: "Why talk, he is lying, he does not ask for food or drink, well, let him",
Such is the story.))

[Fat]

Konstantin. It is not for nothing that I hesitate to touch the stove on the lower level ... I am rightly afraid, as it turns out

[Catfish]

Or maybe it’s still worth it, all of a sudden there is a "jar" with tsarist gold pieces, and "Nagan" is a useful thing, it's hard without it in the village.

[bubalik]

hard without him in the village

,,, if the neighbor has a machine gun.

[Catfish]

"The boy found a machine gun in the barn,
Nobody else lives in the village "(c)

Hello, Sergey.

[bubalik]

,,, Except for grandfather Archimedes, who has a torpedo
And two parasitic grandmothers, who have two anti-aircraft guns,
Yes, one mother Matrona,
It's a pity there was not enough cartridge for her ...
Good evening, Constantine

[Catfish]

"A little boy climbed onto an apple tree,
Grandfather Archimedes takes out his sawn-off shotgun.
Shot! Behind him a deafening cry
"Forty-second" - the old man smiled. "

[bubalik]

,,, a shot rang out, the watchman fell:
The father was covering the boy from behind.

[Catfish]

Good dad, kind ...

[Fat]

The neighbors did not have a machine gun for sure. Digging - I know ... We do not quarrel, we help each other to the best of our ability.

[bubalik]

, look in the flowerbed

[Fat]

The revolver won't impress ... I have them, but we already dug a saber in the former "glacier" I will not let anyone with a metal detector at this level. "There will be a surprise" (c)

[Catfish]

Andrey, so you have a whole arsenal at home there! Household people lived there ...

[Fat]

Well no! Zemsky doctor with a servant ...

[Catfish]

And doctors are not alien to anything mundane. Well, with the "Nagant" it is clear, but about the checkers it is already interesting, why is she to the doctor, or did he manage to serve?

[Fat]

Who knows? The scabbard with the blade rotted into trash. On the handle there was a stamp - the Coat of arms and the year 1896, I think so - the Izhevsk plant, Yes, I sold this stump about 4 years ago. He told the buyer, can you have a master to restore? Proshamkal - let's try, on that we parted, asked the scabbard and the remnants of the blade - not funny, it's red slime. Something like this.

[Catfish]

Well, I did the right thing, maybe someone will come in handy.

[Fat]

Amazing! Leather and brass are more durable than "honest" steel I also thought so, but judging by the cunning face of the hoarder, it will reach a true connoisseur 5-15 times more expensive ... It's not for me to judge - "business", nothing personal.

[Korsar4]

And we had a kerosene stove in front of the house. And the samovar was put there. Moscow region.

[Pane Kohanku]

20 years ago inspired

I really liked about the student. To convey the whole picture in a few lines vividly, in detail and in such a way that you feel it all in reality - it is remembered.

[vladcub]

Kost, hello. You had breakfast in the morning, but you forbid the minus player.

[Catfish]

Hello Slava. I had breakfast two hours ago, because I went to bed after the "day" at ten in the morning. With time, everything is very relative for me. Here you, closer to the night, scatter on the bunks, and sit me until the morning, until somehow bow to sleep.
And the backing track, yes to hell with it, you can forbid a minus, but the quarrelsome character of an individual - no, with what he was born, so he will die.

[depressant]

Good morning, colleagues!)))
I read to your angry remark, Konstantin, and corrected the situation for everyone present - from beginning to end. But I am alone, and there can be many saboteurs. Well, well ... as they say, than I can, even so.

[Korsar4]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna: “a depressant for a saboteur” is already a method.

[Pane Kohanku]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna: “a depressant for a saboteur” is already a method.

And what about the "panecohant"? I corrected your karma again, but I won't get into an argument. Well him.

[Korsar4]

Urgently include in a first aid kit.

[Catfish]

Good evening, Lyudmila.
Thank you for your karma. Only they are not "saboteurs", but ... I do not want to use the word in a public place that is most suitable for the definition of these types. One "comrade" here even chided me in PM that I would "hyster like a woman" about these drawbacks, but everything is clear with that - on his part it's just a little revenge for my one performance.
People are sometimes very funny.

[depressant]

In fact, minus hurts and takes thought. But even more painful is the frivolous attitude to the replica. A person tried, put his soul into, wasting time in a fleeting life (by the way, time went faster), and they say to him "hee hee!"
And on the third hand, excessive tolerance to the interlocutor can turn the forum into a bunch of polite idiots, some of whom make boring, boring speeches, while others just as boring and tedious in the same expressions admire them or object. And everyone is afraid to utter nonsense, but it, such an infection, for some reason is pronounced, and the forbidden, it happens, will break through. And now, the Administrator, with a yawn, wearily writes a boring message about the bath ...
In general, you get tired of the forum - mentally, morally, physically. And here - a minus, and you look at him with wide-eyed: "And me - for sho?"

[Catfish]

Good morning, Lyudmila.

(by the way, time has gone faster),

And I have something stretching like rubber, so I sit and think about what to do with myself today.
Yes, look through this page, late last night our Sergey posted his poems, I liked it.))

[depressant]

You woke me up with your comment! I sleep, I see some vile dream, and here - a thunderous, drawn-out, as if from under the sky: "Get up ... Read ..." And we have 4.50 in the morning. I'm going to read.

[Catfish]

We have the same number. Sergei and I are here to entertain each other - join us.

[depressant]

Where?!? ... Found nothing!

[Catfish]

A little higher, yesterday and today.

[Fat]

Oh! this is to Sergey! He feels false from around the corner (no?) So, in "nature" we are basically. rude, ill-mannered, bad people. Only within the framework of the site requirements, dzhut- horror, polite things and nonsense, we mold without hesitation
Cons - the inevitable rejection of either the point of view or the style of presentation of it.
Are you really expecting general agreement? Lyudmila Yakovlevna with your life experience?
Well, I've already worn out a bunch of "cons" ...

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Sea Cat

It's not about nationality and faith, but about the person himself, probably ...

And did you pay attention to what the division of people are coming today? - Do you feel about the golden billion, or not? And our government has applied all its strength for the past 30 years to give a signal to the West - you are, we are the chosen ones, we are with you !!!

Quote: Sea Cat

It's scary to think what a person turns into, if by the will of fate, or rulers

It is most interesting to observe how the transformation of public consciousness (the consciousness of the average person) occurs. This is most clearly seen in Germany in the 30s, or Perestroika in the 80s. But technology is improving.

[Fat]

I strongly disagree.

do you belong to the golden billion or not? And our government has applied all its strength for the past 30 years to give a signal to the West - you are, we are the chosen ones, we are with you !!!

It is "they" - to go out and try to pull us with them. And we are joking because we don’t want to. Signal, further, good doctor ...

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Thick

It is "they" - to go out and try to pull us with them.

frankly, did not understand who is pulling us where? the fact that we survive not thanks to but in spite of, this is only our merit

[Fat]

There is a good Russian fairy tale. About Alyonushka and Bratz Ivanushka. "Do not drink from the" hoof ", be patient - otherwise you will become a kid, did not listen to Ivanushka's sister (I really wanted to drink) drank
and turned into a kid ... "Don't take it personally. Just think.

[aybolyt678]

Quote: Thick

and turned into a kid ... "Don't take it personally. Just think.

now they have been ranked among the goats ... metaphorically, bye but still don't understand

[Fat]

Bro! I myself do not understand any of the modern "kooky". No, not "I ranked you among the horned", you turned your eyes to yourself. Suffer a little and you will gain not little. Isn't it clear? Things are being done, easily accessible - it is stolen ... But the suit is not rogues now and I am glad ...

[icant007]

All the soldiers of Armenian nationality were disarmed (many of them were later killed), the Armenians were forbidden to own weapons (they received this right only in 1908).

Something incomprehensible, 1908, if we are talking about the First World War.

[VLR]

In 1908, Armenians in the Ottoman Empire were allowed to own weapons. In 1915 it was banned again.

[Aerodrome]

it's high time to draw an analogy with the history of China, they were also banned there ... born as a result of "nunchaku" (loved by his youth, now more on the head) there are textolite ... damn ... no, no, right now I'll throw it out ... I'll drink .... on the washers ... that's it ... Major don't run, I'm late.

[vladcub]

I noticed this myself

[Olgovich]

And in September 1917 The Armenian and Greek quarters in the city of Smyrna (Izmir) were destroyed.

This happened much later, in 1922.

burned in closed houses and stables

in the last article it was argued that they did not do this in order to save houses.

Armenians were killed not only by Turks, but also by Kurds and all other Muslims of Turkey.

Pogroms of Armenians took place much later, in the middle of the 20th century, even after WWII.

It is true that not only Armenians but also Greeks, Assyrians, etc. were subjected to genocide.

The general conclusion can be drawn as follows: EVERYONE whom RUSSIA did not have time to free from the Turkish yoke in the 18-19th centuries were cut out.

Do they remember this, do Romanians, Bulgarians, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Serbs, etc. understand it today?

Alas, in many ways, no.

[vladcub]

You are right in many ways

[VLR]

Quote: Olgovich

And in September 1917 The Armenian and Greek quarters in the city of Smyrna (Izmir) were destroyed.

This happened much later, in 1922. [

This is already complete destruction, I wrote about this in the last article. And in 1917 - the first excesses (in 1915, as I wrote, the governor of Izmir sabotaged a decree on the deportation of Armenians, fearing the economic consequences). Yes, now I see that the wording is not very clear in this place. Destruction not of neighborhoods, but of Armenians and Greeks of these neighborhoods.

[Olgovich]

Quote: VlR

This is already complete destruction, I wrote about this in the last article.

You write in this article:

А in September 1917 The Armenian and Greek quarters in the city of Smyrna (Izmir) were destroyed.

About it was told in article Birth Turkish Republic.

But there is not a word about the annihilation of Armenians in September 1917 in the last article "The Birth of the Turkish Republic".

And this is logical, because in 1917 there was no Republic, no massacre.

[icant007]

Quote: Olgovich

Armenians were killed not only by Turks, but also by Kurds and all other Muslims of Turkey.

And even Istanbul Jews. According to the testimony of the Israeli historian Yair Oron.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: icant007

Quote: Olgovich

Armenians were killed not only by Turks, but also by Kurds and all other Muslims of Turkey.

And even Istanbul Jews. According to the testimony of the Israeli historian Yair Oron.

I read that the Jews, like some Turks, sheltered Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians. Moreover, unlike the Turks, they were not punished for this - they were paid off, probably
But perhaps Oron is referring to these two characters:
Abraham Bey became the assistant to the Chief of Police of Constantinople, and Samuil Effendi became the head of the security department of the Turkish capital. Both Jews joined the Unity and Progress Party and were under the patronage of Talaat Pasha.

[icant007]

Quote: Krasnodar

But perhaps Oron is referring to these two characters:

I don't know the details. We must read his book.

[Fat]

Hi Albert. I also suddenly had questions for the author. Valery's article is very good.
But somehow "in a hurry". Not typical. I read, scratch "turnips"

[Krasnodar]

Oh, glad to see, greetings, Andrey Borisovich!
The topic, in fact, requires writing a lot of articles, you won't be limited to one. It all started with the appearance in the Ottoman Empire of the Armenians who received higher education in Western Europe, who began a peaceful, at the beginning, struggle for the equality of the Armenian population of Turkey. We are talking about the early 80s of the 19th century. From there everything went to hell knows what - a massacre. A series of articles is needed here, starting with Greater Armenia, the conquest of Asia Minor by the Turks, etc.

[Fat]

And I'm glad, Albert!
Bro! It's such a thing ...
Valery is already "plowing like a bee" and this article is not the first. Scrupulous, like a microscope, for which many thanks to him. There are no questions for him. Does he need a hype and a holivar? What about us?
I think for a serious person, this is all a burden. This is a tragedy! You joke, and by right you will be reputed to be a half-wit ...
"Well alas we've seen it all before
Knights in armor, days for yore
The same old fears and the same old crimes
We haven't changed since ancient times "- Dire Straits.
(Alas, I've seen it all before
Knights in armor, days gone by
All the same fear and the same gangs
Have we changed? - No, Bro ...)

[depressant]

A wonderful comparison! "As scrupulous as a microscope." I like this imagery of speech)))

[Fat]

I look up to you, lady Ludmila

[Korsar4]

Addressing as Lady Rowena.

[Fat]

Well, if Lyudmila Yakovlevna is a noble Saxon, and Cedric of Rotherwood himself took care of her in her youth, and she is the granddaughter of King Alfred the Great ... Then yes - Rowena
And by communication: She knows her own worth, but not arrogant and has a sense of her own dignity, she is kind, smart, knows how to behave in society. In a word - a lady.

[Korsar4]

It is probably easier to pick up characters for the knightly tournament on the forum.

And the yeomen, the little ones, amuse themselves with their competitions.

And there are more than enough candidates for Wamba '

[depressant]

Well, guys, this is a slander! What a lady I am! My mother tried to somehow bring me to this type of human being, but I successfully resisted her, and it turned out in my opinion, not in your opinion. As there? "The Sandpit Generals"? Suggest: "lady from Khrushchev", coronavirus variety. Hmmm ...

[Korsar4]

And the fact that ladies avoid general education fits into the overall picture.

"Note, I did not suggest it" (c).

[Fat]

Sergey! Better not! Otherwise, out of spiritual latitude, I will begin to retell "The Word of the Igor's Regiment" in the Nurmansk style: "Yarislefdottir in Putivl is crying ...", etc., and you will pick up the kumpaniya and you will get a saga, no worse than those of the recognized skalds
Even if you are against the Norman theory, I feel that you will not be able to resist.
We are fools (Norman?), But we are quite sane
Shall we replace for clarity?

[Korsar4]

We'll replace it like this.
The topic of Konung Yaritsleiv remained unanswered.
It's a pity.
To support the saga is always.
I was in Karelia.
Pohela too.

[Krasnodar]

He has a series of articles about the peoples who inhabited the Ottoman Empire. He could not fail to mention the Armenians, but he rightly did not go deeper into this topic)).

[Albay]

Here is the opinion of historians, not religious amateurs
https://youtu.be/Jr-Z3akYJN8
https://youtu.be/Eihl0kp5gSI

[Albay]

Here is Albert the Armenian historian
https://youtu.be/qF9xI-BeLMI

[Krasnodar]

Greetings Parviz!
The story is tragic, muddy, in the spirit of that area of ​​that time

[Albay]

Hello Krasnodar! This is another scorn and manipulation of the author. 7 years ago I gave here historical references about how the Armenian revolutionary parties such as Dashnaktsutyun and Gnchak were organized and created for terror over the Turks. Hundreds of testimonies I cited here as being supported by the Armenian Church and In Turtsmi and in Russia, pogroms of Turks and Azerbaijanis were organized.In Guba there is a museum of genocide against Mountain Jews committed by Armenians in those years.
The most famous Russian historians write and say that it was the Armenians who began the pogroms in the cities of Turkey and the massacre was mutual after the Turks and Kurlis began to take revenge. You can read about the atrocities of Armenians against the Turks and Azerbaijanis in those years in the notes of Lieutenant Colonel Tverdokhlebov and in the diaries of the general Ordashelidze. The Sultan had several ministers, including the Minister of Finance.
The author is lying and cringing without blushing.

[Krasnodar]

The author is not lying, he just uses generally accepted information for access You, of course, own a large amount of information from all parties to the conflict, I also read a lot about those events.

[Scorpio05]

So another article ordered by the Armenians, on the VO this part happens, just a reason for another Azerbaijani-Armenian srach. The Armenians managed to professionally promote themselves and their losses, but if you read Kurdish sources, it is still unknown who killed whom. Moreover, according to Kurdish sources, it was the Armenians who massacred the Kurds and Turks, moreover, behind the back of the Russian army, hiding behind it from the revenge of the Kurdish rebels. But then the revolution broke out and the Russian army left, and the Armenian troops themselves had to answer to the angry fighters of the Kurdish irregular units. Why angry? But the Kurds write why, in my next comment. There is nothing from me. everything according to Kurdish sources (chronicles) ...

[Scorpio05]

World War I and the exodus of the Kurds.
"Russian troops, accompanied by armed Armenian detachments of Dashnaks, entered the land of Kurdistan twice after 1914. The Ottomans did not offer resistance to the Russians and Armenians. With the intensification of hostilities, the Ottoman troops retreated further and further inland. Russian troops with the participation of Armenian guides and detachments captured Erzurum, Van and Mush.
In 1915, hostilities between the Ottomans and Russian troops in the lands of Kurdistan became more and more fierce. The Russians drove the Ottomans further and further, and the Armenians provided them with great assistance. The more territory the Russians occupied, the more the Armenians became vicious against the Muslims. Stunned by the spilled blood, the Armenians CRUELY and RIGHTLESS killed the Kurds, slaughtered entire families with wives and children, robbed property, took sheep and cows. With the connivance and silent indifference of the Russians, the Armenian Dashnaks treacherously dealt with everyone, sparing neither the old nor the young.
Abdurazak Badyrkhan, in his book "The Autobiography of Abdurazak", translated by Jalile Jalil, publishing house of the "Matin" magazine, December 1999, Dohuk, p. 58, writes: "Most of the Russian officers treated the Armenians better than the Kurds. Because of the false statements and fabrications about the Kurds, they / the Russians / sometimes showed an undeservedly negative attitude towards them.Therefore, I constantly told the Russian generals that in order to establish good relations with the Kurds, it is necessary to look for translators among the Sunni Kurds from Yerevan or Kars. The war was going on, chaos reigned everywhere. The more the position of the Ottomans weakened, the more the Armenians committed atrocities. Kurds from the six vilayets - Erzerum, Van, Mush, Bitlis, Sirte, Kars, as well as the territories around them, as a result of the onslaught of the Russians troops and attacks on them by the outrageous Armenians were forced to abandon everything and light without belongings, in a hurry to leave their native land. Historian Hassan Hshyar writes about this: “All the native lands covered by the Kurds, the vilayets of Artvin, Erzurum, Van, Mush, Bitlis were empty. "
A source. (by the way anti-Turkish newspaper)
https://kurdistan.ru/2014/02/01/articles-20587_Pervaya_mirovaya_voyna_i_ishod_kurdov.html

[vladcub]

Valery, as always, enlighten us. I will say about myself: I used to think that I knew a lot from history, but now I see that a self-confident ignoramus

[Aerodrome]

Quote: vladcub

Valery, as always, enlighten us.

and where did your "fistula" form? (I am interested in purely medical and traditional medicine ...) I can give prescriptions ...

[astra wild2]

And if you do not cling to the letter "i", but in essence?

[vladcub]

Thanks for work. I can handle it myself. Do you like Valery's work, otherwise I won't understand

[Fat]

Slava, I don't understand! Are you talking about yourself or the author? Valery is a dock, but he can fall into the "heresy of globalism"

[vladcub]

Then you need a "exorcist", as in the Middle Ages were, so that Valery returned to the "bright path"

[depressant]

I never liked history, was a little interested in archeology, and only after reading this article by Ryzhov to the end - this one! - specifically this one, she understood with her mind what she always understood by instincts and what people who gather from all regions of the country to Central Russia understand by them - history, archeology are the most important of the sciences. And the people always understood this - "where he was born, there he came in handy."
History sets the boundaries of the origins of your people, outlines a figure on the surface of the planet - the Earth, isolating that part of this surface that belonged only to your ancestors, then belongs only to you and to no one else. And no outsider has the right to tell me how to live on this part. Do you want to indicate - become my people, call me. The conclusion is ugly, but it is inevitable. Without becoming me, the alien will inevitably want me to become one, but I cannot. Yes, this is a terrible conclusion, and it is only part of the crowding thoughts.

[Korsar4]

Only about the borders, which fights are not going on. The most terrible question is the boundary question.

[depressant]

Colleague Korsar4, I'm talking about something else))))
Continuing to not really like history for the horrors that it contains, I think about the juxtaposition of the personal and the public.
For example, the Armenians.
There was a large Armenian kingdom, but they lost a significant part of their territory. We lost, but stayed on it, on the conquered one. How should the question be posed? Either you continue to fight for this part, organizing a guerrilla movement, sacrificing lives, or, if you have resigned yourself, think what is more important to you: preserving the old way of life and religion, or the survival of your descendants. If the latter, then, although it is extremely offensive, accept the faith of the conquerors, his way of life and forget that you are Armenians. Become Turks. After all, the conqueror is cruel, strong, and from everything it is clear that he is not going to leave for a long time. And even though he seems to be loyal to the church and the lifestyle of the conquered, but be smart, measure the possibilities. What is more important - descendants or the preservation of a way of life in the form of a church, customs?
But no! In the country of the Turks, they wanted to remain Armenians and received genocide. I understand the source of this behavior of the subsequently genocidal Armenians. It lies in the fact that Armenia was not genocidal by the tsarist regime. The source of some hope not clear to me.
For me something else is more important - what is the basis of the absolute hatred of Armenians in Armenia towards Russians. And this despite the fact that a huge number of Armenians live in Russia, and I have repeatedly observed examples of their obscene behavior towards Russians here, right in my village. Among other things, I have examples of the same and even worse behavior towards Russians on the part of Azerbaijanis. Isn't it our weakness in the form of tolerance hammered into our heads for several generations in the format "keep anything in your thoughts, internationalism outward"? Weakness, combined with the catastrophe of the USSR, tantamount to the catastrophe of the Russian nation?

[astra wild2]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna, you have touched upon a huge amount of material with a huge number of topics. And I would be happy to discuss them all separately, but this is not realistic.
I'll try to express my opinion on two or three topics, but I say right away: I'm scared: not thought out emotions

[astra wild2]

"organizing a guerrilla movement" to organize such a movement requires a charismatic leader and a common goal. For example, WWII, it seems, was a common goal of fighting the invaders, but in France, poppies, why I don’t know such a name, were practically absent. In Poland, although they were different, there were partisans: AK, AL, and they resisted. In Czechoslovakia, the middle name is more convenient for me, the Slovaks relatively resisted, and the Czech ..
In the Soviet Union, the communists were at the head and the partisan movement was broad. In France or Belgium, the communists were unable to organize.
There are a lot of things that I don't understand

[depressant]

Yes, you see, nevertheless Belgium, France, Germany, other Europeans are people of close religions, intertwined cultures, sciences and the level of economic development - peoples who constantly fought among themselves know each other well and - an amazing thing - they are ready to willingly consume the cultural, scientific, technological and other achievements of each other, since they are, strictly speaking, joint. Armenians and Turks are different in religion, customs and no matter how puffed up, according to their own cultural and scientific achievements in those distant times were equally archaic. The archaic painfully endures the loss of territory. Whether in the form of a military takeover, or in the form of outsiders rooting on their own. Without their own territory, an archaic people feel devalued and other archaic people treat them the same way. Just the level of settledness.

[Fat]

Indifference! It is not archaic changes that painfully endure, but stagnation ...
--- "I sit, drink sherbet, eat baklava ... They knock ... Let's go cut ... - Go!"
"I sit, drink sherbet, eat" baklava! "Religion" as if not in business ...

[Fat]

Vera The valiant army of Krajow, according to the information of the Polish government in exile, destroyed about 2000 fascist occupiers from 1940 to 1944 inclusive. "Abaldet!" Poppies ... A shot towards the police station from a pistol from a distance of a kilometer is an amazing feat ... It's just insulting. I will never sniff at such heroism. The scale in comparison with the USSR is simply pathetic. The actions of Tito's formations in the Balkans are noticeable.
AL, as I understand it, is the Army of Ludov, but this is from another "opera", completely.
Remember the Polish army of Anders, who ended up fighting the Nazis together with the Red Army on a common front. Pans, who have lost any concept of honor, through Panov's ambitions ...

[astra wild2]

"obscene behavior towards russkih" I live in the Caucasus, and here is such a mess that figs will make out. It happens that the Russians just don't spit in the eyes, but there are examples of the opposite attitude. An Armenian Kamo lives through the house. He is a businessman and, as the saying goes, "curly-haired", and he buys sweets for Russian children from the needy on holidays. On the next street there is a store: "Lilia" is the owner of "Nyura" there is no aggression at the Russians, she looks at young girls almost like at daughters, and her husband says nasty things. I know a wealthy Armenian, he is capable of any meanness. He does not particularly touch me, "old woman" but I am not comfortable and close. I'll let the "kid" go to him, purely out of harm.
Armenia and Azerbaijan you will understand figs there. As a child I had a "friend": my uncle Gafur, a turner, he gave me some pieces of iron to grind. We had a therapist "Zakhar" (the Russians changed his name to understandable) Yunusych from Baku, died of the crown. He had 5 children: 2 Armenian women (parents were killed by Azerbaijanis), Russian, Adyghe and Azeri and EVERYONE called him: dad.
I am Moldovan on my father's side, but it so happened that all Moldovans whom I meet are "wormy". And my school friend, I really like him) my mother is Moldovan, married to a Moldovan and good friends are also Moldovans.
Everything is so complicated here that I don't even try to understand.
An Armenian woman works with me. She honestly told me: if we refuse among the Armenians in Moscow, she is not sure of anything, and if we find ourselves on the coast, irony is possible, but no enmity.
Everything is so confused here that I don't even try to understand

[Fat]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna. This is your personal. It's a little different for me. Armenians are quite reliable comrades. I even had an Armenian friend ... He died in 1985 in practice. Maybe these are "other" Armenians? Ural? Or those whom you see are ordinary "garbage"

[depressant]

Am I saying that they are bad people? )))
I'm talking about something else. Living in separate families next to us on our, Russian, territory, they can be as good as they like. But living in our territory as part of their large diaspora, they can be anything. Including those who look at us with contempt. They say that such a territory is given, but you do not know how to use it, because you are worthless. And then I have a question: if you are such "whoever", what are you doing here? Why don't you grind and polish your ancestral territory to a shine? You have it! I have the same question for the million-strong Azerbaijani diaspora in Moscow. I don’t see the Turks taking root in Russia en masse. They are busy polishing their territory and with a military interest are eyeing the neighboring unpolished one.
I am much more concerned about the situation of Russians in Russia itself. Today, glancing through some topic in my eyes, I saw a comment in which a man from Dnepropetrovsk directly accused the Russians of the collapse of the country and the betrayal of those who believed in their ideology. But can't such accusations be brought forward to us by those who, as small peoples, live on the territory of Russia, not being diasporas, but peoples rooted in their own historical territories? They can. And they are already showing ...
I have an archaic consciousness. I refuse to believe that the city of Grozny, built by the Russians, is Chechen. But I already see the time when the Khanty and Mansi will tell you that Khanty-Mansiysk in ancient times was built by their ancestors.

[Korsar4]

I probably disagree.
The good nature of a big and strong person is not weakness.

“We love everything - and the heat of cold numbers.
And the gift of divine visions ”(c).

[Fat]

Sergey, I will answer both you and Lyudmila at the same time. "Wild Caucasians" do not understand the carefully hidden power ... I had to beat "other ... military builders" with anything, but then - silk "druzhbany". Oh ... there is little censorship. But they completely forgot to scoff at our girls and boys. "Soft power" is a method for the smart. Most of the newcomers to the "Natsik-Diaspora" preferred lessons on their "turnips". Impressive and began to learn "in a real way" In the diaspora - smart - to complain to no one, or even not for long, from their own, "diaspora" and raked, also "respectable people" came to apologize for them came to live with us ... Despicable Me!
Rule 1: Fight back and let it be ...
Rule 2: See Rule 1

[Korsar4]

Yes. As in contact sports. They look there - how hard you put your foot. Even if you don't think about it.

Collective farm first year was remembered. We had an interesting group, mostly formed from Caucasians.

Although this is a completely preferential option for communication.

[Fat]

But at least you, Sergey, understood how it should be. Sincerely.

[depressant]

Colleague Korsar 4, oh no, no, no! ...
The good nature of a large, strong man, capable of forgetting how the locals expelled hundreds of thousands of Russian people from the Russian city of Grozny, killing peaceful men, old people and children, raping women - this is a sign of the idiocy of a big, strong man. He is something like Gerasim, who drowned Mu-Mu. This is how they perceive us. And we confirm by paying them a tribute, taking money away from the impoverished Russian population for this, and thereby reducing our birth rate and faith in the future.
We are not like them. Living on handouts is humiliating for us. We want a decent job, we want to make money. And they are not. To extort money from the Russian budget and distribute it among the clans is valor for them. For us - a shame to which we are diligently accustomed. Because the capitalism that has been created in Russia does not imply real industrialization, it is of an investment type. And if this format continues further, then in us, Russians, all our small peoples will make fun of us. And they are already doing it. The same Yakuts, the same Chukchi. We do not grind or polish our country. Because we were deprived of such an opportunity. And that's why we waste away.
And seeing how a big and strong person weakens, the small ones with redoubled zeal demand from him: "Give !!!"

[Korsar4]

It is universal about this from the New Testament: "Be wise as serpents, and simple as doves."

[Fat]

Lyudmila Yakovlevna. My unforgettable mother-in-law used to say: A man climbed onto a mountain ash ... "A thin mountain ash bent, a man with his head on the ground! What, did you eat?" Having said A, you should always name the next one. "letter", they (the Armenians) have been "hesitating" for 30 years, and let them "don't like" the devil. You might think there is someone who disinterestedly helps to restore the destruction after the "Spitak", There is no such! Union - could. So Armenian democracy trampled on him ... One of the first. Got "freedom"? Eat your own meal. I can help the Armenians, send a "spoon of freedom" to the French government, for the transfer of humanitarian aid to the Armenians "wrecked" as a result of the REGULAR conflict. Eshte, eat the long-awaited democracy, brothers, Armenians ... As for the Azerbaijanis, Let them rejoice, but they are also "southern" and know that the triumph is short-lived. Because there are Our peacekeepers, so that the Azeri thrill does not turn into a massacre. What will happen when they leave?

[depressant]

Andrey Borisovich ...
I reread my remarks)))
Imagined: an angry lady on the podium shakes her fists, raises her hand with a pointing finger, cuts the truth-womb, from which the victims cheer up, they become guilty and they immediately correct their mistakes, and many of them become sharply better ... It became funny and bitter ... We have a trading family here: he is Azerbaijani, she is Armenian, children have grown up in my memory. Quiet, peaceful people, very reserved, once fled from Baku. And I am from Abkhazia and also closed. Life grinds us, not feeling any pity for its victims. And we can only talk about the strangeness of private collisions during the shift of tectonic plates of history.

[Fat]

From Abkhazia ... I had very good friends. A family. He is a Georgian, sharp, enterprising like 25 Jews, honest and kind, sometimes simple-minded, Mirab (although, judging by the name, he is more likely to be a Mingrel) She is an Abkhaz woman, she asked to be called Dasha - a miracle person, smart ... no, a wise woman .. They fled from Abkhazia in 1992 yet. We settled down, straightened ourselves, taught the children and returned home. Very persistent, respectable people. They did not give a damn about the "tectonics" of the dirty politics of local "sovereigns". Lord, take care of their success, because luck is a myth ...

[depressant]

Mentality. Accustomed to their own. Because they returned. I'm much worse. There is a stranger, here ... You will not believe it, it took me 10 years to convince myself that in the suburbs I am at home. Maybe at home. But the habit of running is formed instantly and forever precludes the possibility of true rooting. I have not lived here before. My childhood was not spent here. It's a difficult conversation, it's time to tie it up.

[Fat]

In Russia, you are everywhere at Home, Even if fate has vouchsafed to be born outside the country. I thought it over, so I didn’t answer right away. The pain will not go away and you will remember. Forgive me for not being able to protect ... When it was necessary ... (((

[astra wild2]

Valery, you and Vyacheslav Olegovich are my favorite authors. I'm looking for you every day, but I don't always have time to write a review. In the evening, the phone is discharged, and in the morning I read the comments on my comments and comment along the way that I did not have time yesterday.

[Fat]

Vera, and you come twice a day. By the morning and evening "mail". It will be easier (personal experience)
You will have time to at least note something important for yourself. Leave the necessary, the rest - the basket.
PS ... What do I advise? I'm leafing through everything myself (except for news)

[Korsar4]

Consistency is good in any case.
And everyone has their own handwriting.

[astra wild2]

I don't look into the news either. There + easy to earn: "404" and "WAS indestructible and legendary"

[Rauf]

After reading the article, it becomes clear that the author did not provide a single reference to the archival materials of the Russian and Ottoman empires. It would be a pity it would be interesting. By the way, Turkish and Russian sources are open. Expressing my condolences for all civilians and military personnel who died during the First World War, I urge you to take into account the criticality of the current moment and not incite ethnic hatred between Armenians and Turks. I propose to take an example from the relationship between the German and Russian peoples after the two world wars.

[Fat]

If you are not satisfied with the articles in the media, read the dissertation. From where you can't do without links. If you doubt the reliability, look for arguments. This is what most intelligent readers do. Which group you prefer to join is up to you. Empty declarations still don't work. The relationship between Germans and Soviet people after the Patriotic War is an extremely difficult thing, however. Everything should be looked at "in time."

[Seal]

Quote: Suren Hakobyan

3. Some regions at that time were part of Russia, which the Bolsheviks later transferred to Turkey by signing the so-called "friendship" agreement in 1921. (see the Moscow Treaty of 1921), these areas during the genocide were de jure part of Russia, but de facto under Turkey, therefore, the Armenians of these areas are not included in the census list.

I did not understand this at all.
By the way, not the so-called treaty, but the MOSCOW AGREEMENT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND TURKEY of March 16, 1921.
The census was carried out BEFORE THE WAR. That is, in a period when there is still no war or any excesses. The census recorded the number of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. What is the problem ?
What does it have to do with some phantom areas, which during the so-called "genocide" were allegedly de jure part of Russia, but de facto under Turkey ???
Where did you get them at all, these areas ??? Name at least one !!!!

[Scorpio05]

Quote: Lech from Android.

I remember the famous phrase from the movie "Come and See" ... as the SS man said ... You shouldn't be there.
I have seen enough of what they did to the Armenians in the recent war in Karabakh ... as if the last century returned to our reality again ... the civilized gloss quickly flies from people and they simply turn into sadists and animals. Under certain conditions, the massacre of Armenians may repeat itself again, Armenians should always remember this ... as well as us. In Ukraine, the Russian-speaking population may find itself in the same situation if the local Bandera members are given free rein.
Thanks to the author for the article.

Have you seen enough of what the Armenians did with the Azerbaijanis in the 92-94's? Don't look in the direction of non-Armenians in principle? Genocide of the Azerbaijani civilian population in Khojaly (About 800 women and children were crushed by the Armenians (along with the missing in this city), Karadaghly, Aghdaban, Mesheli, etc.?
And you probably don’t know how the Armenians during the 44-day war fired ballistic missiles at the civilian population of Ganja (the second city of Azerbaijan), as well as Bardu, Tartar, Mingechuarskaya TPP? Thanks to the Azerbaijani air defense for not allowing the Armenians to destroy the dam. More than 100 people, mainly women and children, were killed by the Armenians in residential areas of these cities, innocent civilians, whole families, were killed there. All cities except Tartar are far from the front line.
I am simply tormented by the question, knowing the passion of Armenians to massively exterminate civilians and organize terrorist acts in crowded places (explosions in the metro in Moscow, twice in the metro in Baku, railway stations, helicopters, trains, sea and air terminals in Baku and Paris, etc.). ) How was it possible to give (and even free of charge) such a powerful and long-range weapon into the hands of the Armenian "warriors" who are good at fighting only with the enemy's civilian population? It's like giving a grenade to a nutty monkey.

[Scorpio05]

Quote: Lech from Android.

purely on a national basis or is it still for Christianity?

I think more on ethnic grounds ... what is surprising in the extermination of the Armenians also took part in the Kurds, who are now spread rot by the Turks on all fronts.

Kurds are vindictive people, remembering evil well. Maybe the Kurds had some reason to fight the Armenians? And the Armenians are not the most "white and fluffy", how do they like to show themselves?
1. According to the report of the Russian consul in Damascus, Boris Shakhovsky, who is responsible for relations with the Kurdish tribes, in the war that began in 1914, the Armenian nationalists wanted to “destroy the entire Muslim population in the occupied by us [ie. e. Russian troops] areas ", and their savagery provoked" desperate resistance from the Kurds ", which" terribly complicated our [military] operations. "(1)"
More details: https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2019/12/22/armyanskiy-genocid-v-ideologii-sovremennogo-kurdskogo-nacionalnogo-dvizheniya
2. “However, at the end of 1914 and in 1915, military cooperation between the Russian army and the Kurds against the Ottoman Empire did not take place partly due to the actions of Armenian volunteer formations and Armenian rebels who started ethnic cleansing of Muslims in“ Eastern Anatolia ”. As a result, the Kurdish irregulars created a serious problem for the Russian military communications of the Caucasian Front. "
See Reynolds Michael for details. Shattering Empires: the Clash and Collapse of the Ottoman and Russian Empires, 1908-1918. Cambridge University Press., 2011.
More details: https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2019/12/22/armyanskiy-genocid-v-ideologii-sovremennogo-kurdskogo-nacionalnogo-dvizheniya

[Scorpio05]

According to Kurdish sources, it was the Armenians who massacred the Kurds and Turks, moreover, behind the back of the Russian army, hiding behind it from the revenge of the Kurdish rebels. But then the revolution broke out and the Russian army left, and the Armenian troops themselves had to answer to the angry fighters of the Kurdish irregular units.
Kurdish historian Hassan Hshyar Sardi recounts in World War I and the Exodus of the Kurds:
“One of the reasons for the flight of the Kurds was the following: the arrival of Russian troops on their lands was accompanied by the arrival of Armenians, who brutally and mockingly killed the Kurds. They were killed because the Turks were killing them. As the saying goes, they“ took revenge on the saddle of the donkey. ”They did not remember the words of their fellow tribesmen that “the Kurds did not kill us, they hid our wives and children, saved from death.” In gratitude for this kindness and philanthropy, the Armenians ripped open the stomachs of pregnant Kurdish women, removed the child and tore it in half. they made an incision in the form of a pocket on the skin of the calf of a still living baby, thrust their little hands into it, laughed and exclaimed: "What a good pocket you have, Kurdo!"
The pain and horror from the loss of their homes, wanderings in a foreign land were aggravated by the blatant, inhuman, mass killings of Kurds by Armenian thugs, with the complete connivance of the Russians. Many were mowed down by hunger, cold, disease. There were especially many victims among those who were heading to Anatolia. Retreating, the Ottoman troops went in the same direction as the Kurdish refugees. Their task was to protect the Kurds, but more often than not they themselves needed help. Therefore, they did not provide any real help to the Kurds, did not protect them from Russians and Armenians. The feeling was that they were not residents of this country.

Hasan Hshyar continues: “These destitute, unfortunate people were driven ahead of them like a flock of sheep towards Anatolia and Adana. Presumably 20 percent of them died on the way, never reaching these lands. Some kind-hearted Turks took away orphaned Kurdish children. Among such children were the famous singers Parikhan Altunjak and her sister Nariman from Kela Khnus in Sheh Said, who were taken into a family in Anatolia during the exodus of the Kurds.
The Kurdish population declined: in Van province by 62 percent, in Bitlis by 42 percent, in Erzurum by 31 percent, in Kara province by 60 percent, in Mush by 55 percent, and in Sirte by 30 percent. "
Source Kurdish (anti-Turkish, by the way) resource: https://kurdistan.ru/2014/02/01/articles-20587_Pervaya_mirovaya_voyna_i_ishod_kurdov.html