Military Review

From the UAE to the USA via Libya. Trophy "Pantsir-S1E" and its history

52

ZRPK 96K6 "Pantsir-S1" performed for the Russian army


A few days ago, information appeared in the foreign press that the United States was able to obtain a Russian-made Pantsir-S1E anti-aircraft missile-gun system. This combat vehicle was taken out of Libya and is now planned to be shipped to American territory for further study. Let's consider this situation in more detail.

Export sample


The design of the ZRPK 96K6 "Pantsir-S1" was completed by the mid-nineties, but due to financial problems, the completion of all necessary work and acceptance into service were postponed indefinitely. At the end of the decade, a foreign customer was found who expressed their readiness not only to purchase ready-made equipment, but also to finance the completion of development work.

The first foreign buyer of the export version of "Pantsir-C1" was the armed forces of the United Arab Emirates. The agreement with the UAE provided for the supply of a large amount of equipment and ammunition for it with a total value of $ 800 million, starting in 2003. However, these deadlines were not met, and the first air defense missile systems were sent to the customer only in 2009. Deliveries continued until 2013.

Russian enterprises sent to the buyer 50 96K6 Pantsir-S1E combat vehicles on a foreign chassis, 1000 9M331 guided missiles, an unknown number of 30-mm artillery shells, and a number of related products for the operation of new equipment. No new purchases were planned, but in the recent past, the UAE has expressed a desire to upgrade the existing facilities.

Libyan events


For many years, a civil war has been going on in Libya between several organizations and groups with foreign support. One of the parties to the conflict is the Libyan National Army (LNA), which is assisted by the UAE. Support is expressed in financing, supplies of materiel, etc.

From the UAE to the USA via Libya. Trophy "Pantsir-S1E" and its history

Pantsir-S1E, lost by the LNA along with the Al-Watia base, May 18, 2020

In mid-2019, an export version of the Pantsir-S1E air defense missile system on the MAN chassis was seen on the Libyan battlefields. The vehicle was operated by the LNA and was apparently received from the UAE. Later it became known about new deliveries of similar equipment. According to various estimates, the LNA could receive at least 10-15 anti-aircraft systems from the presence of the Emirates army.

The level of losses indicates relatively large volumes of "Pantsirei" supplies. Thus, the Loct Armor database indicates that from February to May 2020, the LNA lost eight air defense missile systems in different sectors of the front. Seven vehicles were destroyed under various circumstances, and the eighth became the enemy's trophy. At the same time, as far as is known, the LNA still has a certain amount of such equipment.

Hand in Hand


On May 18, 2020, the troops of the Government of National Accord (GNA) conducted a successful operation to capture the Al-Watia airbase near Tripoli. Retreating, the LNA abandoned various weapons and equipment. One of the trophies of the PNS in this case was the Pantsir-S1E complex, which received some damage. The launcher had a full load of missiles in a damaged condition. Another vehicle of this type was destroyed during the battle and burned out.

According to foreign media reports, the captured ZRPK was soon sent to the city of Zaviya, where it fell into the hands of one of the armed formations associated with international terrorists. Then the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Libya's PNS conducted a special operation and seized the trophy, which was then transported to the Zuvara airfield.


At the end of January 2021, new messages appeared about the fate of the captured ZRPK. The British newspaper The Times wrote that last June the PNS handed over "Pantsir-S1E" to the American military. A C-17 US Air Force transport aircraft with a team of specialists arrived in Zuwara; they prepared the anti-aircraft complex for transportation and took it away. The combat vehicle was delivered to the German Ramstein airbase, where it presumably remains to this day.

New flight


Literally the day after The Times, Popular Mechanics raised the topic of the trophy "Carapace". It revealed the possible further fate of this machine. According to him, the ZRPK still remains in Germany, but in the near future it is planned to send it to the United States for a thorough study.

Pantsir-S1E will be transported to Wright-Patterson Air Base (Ohio), where the National Aerospace Reconnaissance Center operates. One of the main tasks of this organization is the study of foreign samples. aviation equipment and anti-aircraft weapons. The Russian air defense missile system in export performance should become the next topic of such research.

Popular Mechanics assumes that the trophy complex will be disassembled and studied at the level of individual units and parts. Then it can be repaired and reassembled for various types of field tests. However, it is not yet clear to what extent these assumptions correspond to reality. In addition, even the approximate dates for sending the air defense missile system to the United States were not named.


The combat vehicle received noticeable damage

of the latter, News it follows that the United States is not going to return the received "Pantsir-S1E" to the owners in the person of the UAE. Even the long-standing and fruitful military-technical cooperation of the countries will not contribute to such a development of events. Thus, for a country that ordered and paid for fifty air defense missile systems, this machine is actually lost - like others destroyed in battles.

According to the results of the study ...


History with the trophy "Shell" itself is very interesting, but the most interesting events, it seems, will take place only in the future. The United States is going to study the received ZRPK and draw certain conclusions. What the American specialists will learn and how this will affect the further development of aviation and means of attack is a big question.

Probably, American specialists will not learn anything fundamentally new. The United States and the United Arab Emirates have long cooperated in the military sphere, and the Americans had access to the Emirati anti-aircraft systems. They could inspect and study equipment, observe it during firing and communicate with the calculations. However, it is much more convenient to have "your own" complex - now the USA can study it more fully.

Getting Russian-made equipment into the wrong hands could have negative consequences. However, there is nothing to worry about. Before concluding a contract with a foreign customer, the Pantsir-S1E project passed all the necessary checks and examinations. This means that the supply of equipment abroad does not violate state secrets and does not threaten our security.

The exact list of differences between the export ZRPK Pantsir and the vehicle for the Russian army is still unknown. Various sources mentioned the use of radar components with reduced characteristics, the absence of Russian-style state identification means, other computer systems, etc. Thus, the export product differs from the Pantsir-C1 in its lower performance and the lack of some features.


However, even the export air defense missile system is of great interest to American specialists. They get the opportunity to study a real piece of equipment without relying on information from open sources, intelligence or allies. Perhaps some of the features of the Russian complex were not yet known to the American military - and this may affect the further development of some areas.

No negative consequences


The current situation around the former Emirati and Libyan Pantsir-S1E is very interesting, and its continuation could have noticeable consequences. At the same time, there are already both winners and losers.

So, the Russian side does not lose anything - the UAE paid for the supplied air defense missile systems long ago, and various kinds of combat losses do not concern us. The loss of classified information does not threaten our country either, because we are talking about a simplified export complex. The United States gets the opportunity to study a modern foreign model, even if not the latest model, and draw conclusions.

For the LNA and the UAE, the loss of the "Shell" is a clear failure. The Libyan national army was left without another element of its air defense, already not too developed, and the UAE lost some money invested in the purchase of equipment. The PNS troops also did not receive any advantages - they were not allowed to strengthen their outdated air defense with a modern model.

It is very likely that the story with the captured "Pantsir-S1E" will be continued in the very near future. The complex is still in Germany, but soon it should go to the USA. How the process of testing and studying will take place, and what results it will lead, perhaps, will become known later.
Author:
Photos used:
"Rostec", Lostarmour.info
52 comments
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  1. ALEXX.
    ALEXX. 2 February 2021 11: 15
    +3
    If there is no leakage of state secrets for the Russian Federation, then this is very good for us.
    1. Civil
      Civil 2 February 2021 12: 17
      +1
      Is that image loss, however, after the battle with "Bayraktar" it is no longer important.
    2. YOUR
      YOUR 3 February 2021 03: 55
      +2
      What a state secret. What are you talking about? Read the story of the creation of the Shell. It was practically created with money and by order of the UAE. The first 50 units went to them. Those. was originally created for export. But it turned out really good, so good that they began to supply little by little to their Army. Since its inception, everyone is planning to put it instead of Tunguska. that is outdated both physically and morally, while putting it on tracked chassis, unfortunately, did not go further than talks and promises.
      And ... the export version of "Pantsir-C1" contains only an optical-electronic fire control system.
      And yet effective
    3. bandabas
      bandabas 3 February 2021 17: 13
      +2
      State secrets are leaking through other channels. Ah, this is not good.
  2. prior
    prior 2 February 2021 11: 23
    0
    I remember when the Katyusha was lost, entire special operations were developed to destroy them.
    What prevented the destruction of the lost "Shell"? Did you regret "Caliber"?
    Or now it’s a state secret and not a state secret at all, but chipboard.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 2 February 2021 11: 27
      +10
      Quote: prior
      I remember when the Katyusha was lost, entire special operations were developed to destroy them.
      What prevented the destruction of the lost "Shell"? Did you regret "Caliber"?
      Or now it’s a state secret and not a state secret at all, but chipboard.

      A state secret sold in the UAE? Are you joking.
      There are inevitable risks in the arms trade.
      The probability of it falling into the hands of the enemy (potential enemy) is one of them.
      Execution of the sold weapons in export form is a measure to minimize possible damage.
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 2 February 2021 11: 46
        +4
        Quote: Flood
        The probability of it falling into the hands of the enemy (potential enemy) is one of them.
        Execution of the sold weapons in export form is a measure to minimize possible damage.

        In this case, I wonder if the American weapons sold to the Allies get to Russia by similar routes?
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 2 February 2021 12: 24
          +2
          Quote: Starover_Z
          In this case, I wonder if the American weapons sold to the Allies get to Russia by similar routes?

          Well, cases are known. And after 08.08.08 some samples were exported from Georgia. And in Syria, specialists are probably doing this.
          1. tralflot1832
            tralflot1832 2 February 2021 15: 40
            +3
            The Hummers were equipped with NATO-standard communication equipment. For our Samodelkins and Kulibins there was a place to have fun.
            1. dauria
              dauria 3 February 2021 00: 04
              +2
              For our Samodelkins and Kulibins there was a place to have fun.


              It is always interesting and useful to compare. And the Americans are not interested in the "military secret" at all, but let's say, just a gearbox, a hydraulic booster, circuitry in electronics, materials used, oils and other "trifles". For example, after the delivery of the Saber downed in Korea to the USSR, which, in fact, did not fly scrap, the strength standards were recalculated, their slurries, sealants, and fuel additives were evaluated. At the same time, we have a pink AMG-10. wink This is even without the famous radio range finder in the scope.
        2. Spkrdctr
          Spkrdctr 2 February 2021 16: 00
          0
          Yes, they do.
        3. Petr Vladimirovich
          Petr Vladimirovich 3 February 2021 09: 56
          0
          Hummers from Poti hit for sure ...
      2. prior
        prior 2 February 2021 13: 28
        -5
        If there is no secret and there is no damage from the fact that the product got to the enemy, then why is this article on VO and what are we discussing in general ?! It's okay, though.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 2 February 2021 13: 31
          0
          I discussed your comment.
          For others is not responsible.
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 2 February 2021 12: 12
      +5
      The shell is not ours, but the UAE, what are you now suggesting to track all export samples and fight them off when the next "warriors" throw something away without looking back ?!

      What goes for export is calculated in advance for what will fall into the hands of the CIA and everything will be known about the characteristics of this sample (I hope that at least this is). I am sure that the USA studied these Shells a long time ago, even when they were in hangars in the UAE, and I even think one or more samples of this technique have already been tested by the USA. They stupidly paid and bought them from the Arabs, and the UAE thus recaptured some of the costs.

      But the main thing is that the Americans have long understood that it is not technology that wins, but people.

      So, the captured Shell does not bring us great danger.
    3. Fitter65
      Fitter65 2 February 2021 12: 18
      +2
      Quote: prior
      What prevented the destruction of the lost "Shell"? Did you regret "Caliber"?

      And where do you order the "Caliber" to be fired? According to the German Ramstein airbase, where he is - "Pantsir", presumably, remains to this day. fool
      Quote: prior
      I remember when the Katyusha was lost, entire special operations were developed to destroy them.

      If it's not hard, then remind at least one ...
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 3 February 2021 07: 39
        +1
        Quote: Fitter65
        Quote: prior
        What prevented the destruction of the lost "Shell"? Did you regret "Caliber"?

        And where do you order the "Caliber" to be fired? According to the German Ramstein airbase, where he is - "Pantsir", presumably, remains to this day. fool
        Quote: prior
        I remember when the Katyusha was lost, entire special operations were developed to destroy them.

        If it's not hard, then remind at least one ...

        in the movies showed .. laughing
        1. Fitter65
          Fitter65 3 February 2021 11: 24
          +1
          Quote: alpamys
          in the movies showed ..

          I remember, I remember, there was still a bunny on a log across the river, which was practically a documentary chronicle.
    4. sidoroff
      sidoroff 2 February 2021 15: 22
      0
      you remember this movie. what such secrets could
      to extract from the Katyusha the Germans, whose rocketry has advanced much further,
      and having their own suitable MLRS (and which were used earlier by "Katyusha") is known only
      screenwriters films.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 2 February 2021 17: 57
        +4
        Quote: sidoroff
        what such secrets could
        extract the Germans from the Katyusha, whose rocketry has advanced much further

        However ... Despite all their efforts, the Germans were never able to recreate exactly the Soviet rocket fuel; and hence the rocket engines of the eres! If they did, nevertheless, MLRS for 80-mm eres with their own engines; then they failed to reproduce the analogue of the Soviet 132-mm eres ... they did not have time! It should not be forgotten that the Germans for their 6-barreled MLRS first used eres with a black powder rocket engine! There were rockets with black powder engines in Europe and Russia as early as the beginning of the 19th century ...
        1. sidoroff
          sidoroff 2 February 2021 21: 07
          0
          uh huh. FAU 1,2 was invented, jet engines also worked, and simple nitrocellulose from the same 19th century was not honored.
          1. Aag
            Aag 3 February 2021 14: 27
            +1
            Quote: sidoroff
            uh huh. FAU 1,2 was invented, jet engines also worked, and simple nitrocellulose from the same 19th century was not honored.

            And you do not interfere in a bunch of liquid and solid propellant engines?
            Naturally, at a certain stage ..
        2. alpamys
          alpamys 3 February 2021 07: 43
          -1
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Quote: sidoroff
          what such secrets could
          extract the Germans from the Katyusha, whose rocketry has advanced much further

          However ... Despite all their efforts, the Germans were never able to recreate exactly the Soviet rocket fuel; and hence the rocket engines of the eres! If they did, nevertheless, MLRS for 80-mm eres with their own engines; then they failed to reproduce the analogue of the Soviet 132-mm eres ... they did not have time! It should not be forgotten that the Germans for their 6-barreled MLRS first used eres with a black powder rocket engine! There were rockets with black powder engines in Europe and Russia as early as the beginning of the 19th century ...

          How many more fools are there who believe in such tales, the Germans launched a rocket into Space at an altitude of more than 3 km on October 1942, 100, and could not repeat some kind of Katyusha fool
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Fitter65
            Fitter65 3 February 2021 11: 26
            0
            Quote: alpamys
            Germans on October 3, 1942 rocket into Space at an altitude of more than 100 km
            And I remember, then they wrote that the German cosmonauts flew atam until 1945
            1. alpamys
              alpamys 3 February 2021 14: 04
              -1
              Quote: Fitter65
              Quote: alpamys
              Germans on October 3, 1942 rocket into Space at an altitude of more than 100 km
              And I remember, then they wrote that the German cosmonauts flew atam until 1945

              about October 42 this is a historical fact that is hushed up, but if you show diligence you can develop yourself.
    5. Alex013
      Alex013 3 February 2021 15: 44
      0
      They all knew about Katyusha. On the VO there was an article about the captured installations near Mtsensk in 1941 and the whole RS to them.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Emil mamedoff
    Emil mamedoff 2 February 2021 11: 35
    -1


    No offense to friends, but this air defense complex can be easily destroyed with the help of special forces / DRGs with an ATGM 5-th Generation complex from a distance of 8-10 km.

    All good.
    1. Professor
      Professor 2 February 2021 12: 00
      0
      Quote: Emil Mamedoff


      No offense to friends, but this air defense complex can be easily destroyed with the help of special forces / DRGs with an ATGM 5-th Generation complex from a distance of 8-10 km.

      All good.

      So where did he end up? request
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 2 February 2021 12: 17
      +2
      Of course, it can be easily destroyed, even with an RPG from 500 meters.

      It remains only for the DRG to approach this complex, through peaceful fields, secrets and enemy outposts.

      In general, lightness, especially now in modern warfare, when any soldier may, for example, have a thermal imager, thanks to which he will burn this DRG at a distance of 2-3 km, even at night.

      I'm not going to talk about drones with thermal imagers capable of monitoring around the clock.
  5. Professor
    Professor 2 February 2021 11: 58
    +8
    Getting Russian-made equipment into the wrong hands could have negative consequences. However, there is nothing to worry about. Before concluding a contract with a foreign customer, the Pantsir-S1E project passed all the necessary checks and examinations. This means that the supply of equipment abroad does not violate state secrets and does not threaten our security.

    Uh-huh. For a photo at the wedding of a drunken FSB officer, they are sentenced to 13 years for divulging state secrets, for working with OPEN sources they are imprisoned under the same article, which means there are no secrets. I can imagine how one of the developers would transfer the documentation to the USA exactly for this complex and the FSB reports "Eit does not violate state secrets and does not threaten our security". Do not hold readers for fools.
    1. nsm1
      nsm1 2 February 2021 12: 11
      0
      Quote: Professor
      Uh-huh. For a photo at a wedding of a drunken FSB officer, 13 years are given for disclosing state secrets, for working with OPEN
      Here the state secret is an excuse, in itself it is not needed.
    2. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 2 February 2021 12: 20
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      For a photo at the wedding of a drunken FSB officer, they are sentenced to 13 years for divulging state secrets, for working with OPEN sources they are imprisoned under the same article, which means there are no secrets.

      FSB officer at the wedding - ON JOB! There, not to drink means to burn, and if so, then otherwise WE ARE GUILTY!
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 2 February 2021 12: 39
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      Uh-huh. For a photo at the wedding of a drunken FSB officer, they are sentenced to 13 years for divulging state secrets, for working with OPEN sources they are imprisoned under the same article, which means there are no secrets.

      What kind of state secrets can there be in a complex developed for a foreign customer at the expense of a foreign customer? smile
      Moreover, for a foreign customer who was and is the best friend potential adversary - so much better that even if he has oil, the issues of democracy and freedoms are not raised in his regard at all.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  6. Emil mamedoff
    Emil mamedoff 2 February 2021 12: 13
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Emil Mamedoff


    No offense to friends, but this air defense complex can be easily destroyed with the help of special forces / DRGs with an ATGM 5-th Generation complex from a distance of 8-10 km.

    All good.

    So where did he end up? request

    There, in a trench, Armenian soldiers lay hiding, they were fired right at them.
    Sorry for the poor video quality, we only have that for now.
    1. nsm1
      nsm1 2 February 2021 12: 16
      +1
      Whether there were Armenians there or not, it's not clear, it's hard to see.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 2 February 2021 12: 27
    +2
    From the latest news, it follows that the United States is not going to return the received "Pantsir-S1E" to the owners in the person of the UAE. Even the long-standing and fruitful military-technical cooperation between countries will not contribute to such a development of events.
    So maybe the United Arab Emirates allowed the United States to keep the Armor, taking into account the aforementioned "long-term and fruitful military-technical cooperation."
    For the LNA and the United Arab Emirates, the loss of the "Shell" is a clear failure. The Libyan national army was left without another element of its air defense, already not too developed, and the UAE lost some money invested in the purchase of equipment.
    Maybe this Carapace shot down some drone attack before it was lost ?! Or saved someone's life ?! And why grieve, military equipment was bought in order to participate in hostilities. This is a war, not a parade! Therefore, the author's conclusions about the failure look strange.
  9. svoit
    svoit 2 February 2021 12: 43
    -2
    So, the Russian side does not lose anything - the UAE paid off long ago
    but she does not acquire anything either, but could at least get money for spare parts and an upgrade. In general, here we need to take an example from America, they do not make the worst products, but those that cannot be studied and reproduced, so they can safely export
  10. SovAr238A
    SovAr238A 2 February 2021 12: 46
    +7
    It always amazes me how people write "easily and naturally" about equipment, high-tech equipment with reduced performance.
    Like put it worse.

    People, have you ever come across a real high-tech production?

    The system is being designed as a complex.
    For specific tasks. And for specific characteristics.
    In a complex way.
    Accordingly, the technology of industrial production of the designed components and blocks is
    also for a specific result.

    If you want to make such equipment with pre-deteriorated characteristics, then you need to redesign everything. Redo the industrial production process again.

    And these are colossal monetary costs.
    Just because it does everything twice.


    It is impossible to just take and remove the "TOP processor" and put a "WEAK chip" in its place ...
    it is impossible simply because we do not use "open architecture" in instrumentation, which allows changing modules ...

    And at best, those Pantsiri that went to the UAE do not have a state identifier.
    1. Quadro
      Quadro 2 February 2021 13: 08
      -4
      Do not write nonsense. Deteriorated characteristics are the absence of any elements and the replacement of some units with foreign or older versions. You apparently designed the shell for us and you know everything very well. And yes - if there was something special, no one would have exported it.
      1. Aag
        Aag 3 February 2021 14: 23
        0
        Quote: Quadro
        Do not write nonsense. Deteriorated characteristics are the absence of any elements and the replacement of some units with foreign or older versions. You apparently designed the shell for us and you know everything very well. And yes - if there was something special, no one would have exported it.

        It is not necessary to be a participant in the design process (production, operation of any specific model of weapons, weapons) in order to understand that such "leaks" (quite predictable, of course) are not good. The level of industrial potential, technical equipment of enterprises is fully monitored by them. , and much more. Even the availability of project documentation does not guarantee the possibility of reproduction of such a sample. Even technological maps! Of course, it is good to have everything at once ...
        You have already been written in the comments ... Try to understand the difference between performance characteristics, and technology, circuitry, architecture, concept, finally!
        It is no secret that in terms of electronic security (element base), many technologies, well, and finance, where without them (!), The domestic military-industrial complex lags behind competitors. Nevertheless, it regularly issues samples of weapons and military equipment (despite, despite) "having no analogues" .Well, in terms of price-quality ratio (practical value), - for sure (still R&D with cuts, kickbacks, IMHO, would not interfere ...)!
        As an example (I agree, a rough example): AK-47 (AKM). In how many countries it was "supplied", sold, produced (licensed, and not) ... However, Soviet (and even Russian) is appreciated. And not only by fans collectors ...
        hi
    2. nsm1
      nsm1 2 February 2021 13: 54
      -1
      But nothing interferes with reducing the power of the radar transmitter, even without replacing components, purely in denominations ...
      And there are many other possibilities in fact.
      And how can the software be cut ...
    3. Fitter65
      Fitter65 2 February 2021 14: 51
      +1
      Quote: SovAr238A
      And these are colossal monetary costs.
      Just because it does everything twice.

      for the USSR, the Su-17m2 / m3, for foreign customers. The Su-22 / 22m, besides the equipment, there was a different engine and the rear fuselage. The Su-17m4, which went to the USSR, differed in some equipment even from the Su-22m4, which went to our "loyal" allies, not to mention other countries. The MiG-25PD for the USSR and foreign air forces also differed in equipment. Do not know why the United States bought flightless MiG-29s from Moldova in the presence of the same aircraft inherited by the FRG from the GDR? .. Yes, examples of mulion ...
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 2 February 2021 15: 39
        +1
        Quote: Fitter65
        Quote: SovAr238A
        And these are colossal monetary costs.
        Just because it does everything twice.

        for the USSR, the Su-17m2 / m3, for foreign customers. The Su-22 / 22m, besides the equipment, there was a different engine and the rear fuselage. The Su-17m4, which went to the USSR, differed in some equipment even from the Su-22m4, which went to our "loyal" allies, not to mention other countries. The MiG-25PD for the USSR and foreign air forces also differed in equipment. Do not know why the United States bought flightless MiG-29s from Moldova in the presence of the same aircraft inherited by the FRG from the GDR? .. Yes, examples of mulion ...



        Again.
        the first.
        There were no Soviet foreign customers - there were recipients of free military aid ...
        We gave, not sold.

        the second.
        By Moldavian Flashes.
        They were bought by the United States only for the purpose of non-proliferation of these aircraft, among rogue countries (by American standards).
        And only then for the purposes of testing in the United States.
        Moreover, the Americans realized the purchase too late, when 5 aircraft had already left for Africa.
        And all the rest were paid for by one Asian firm.
        And the Americans simply bought out this contract.

        Do not confuse
        1. Fitter65
          Fitter65 2 February 2021 15: 54
          -3
          Quote: SovAr238A
          There were no Soviet foreign customers - there were recipients of free military aid ...
          We gave, not sold.

          Of course it wasn't, and of course we gave it to everyone. Hindus, Iraq ... Well, what if we give it away so let's immediately drive two options, the Su-7BM for ourselves and the Su-7 BMK for handing out
          [/ Center]
          Have these also come for the handed out? If you are poorly versed in this, do not write nonsense.
          Quote: SovAr238A
          They were bought by the United States only for the purpose of non-proliferation of these aircraft, among rogue countries (by American standards).
          And only then for the purposes of testing in the United States.

          Well, then yes, first of all, just so as not to spread, well, to experience, well, why not experience something, after all, they bought it anyway. Cool of course. [Center]
    4. Professor
      Professor 2 February 2021 15: 55
      +5
      Quote: SovAr238A
      It always amazes me how people write "easily and naturally" about equipment, high-tech equipment with reduced performance.
      Like put it worse.

      People, have you ever come across a real high-tech production?

      The system is being designed as a complex.
      For specific tasks. And for specific characteristics.
      In a complex way.
      Accordingly, the technology of industrial production of the designed components and blocks is
      also for a specific result.

      If you want to make such equipment with pre-deteriorated characteristics, then you need to redesign everything. Redo the industrial production process again.

      And these are colossal monetary costs.
      Just because it does everything twice.


      It is impossible to just take and remove the "TOP processor" and put a "WEAK chip" in its place ...
      it is impossible simply because we do not use "open architecture" in instrumentation, which allows changing modules ...

      And at best, those Pantsiri that went to the UAE do not have a state identifier.

      Canimus surdis (We sing to the deaf). You can’t explain anything to them because they themselves have never designed or manufactured anything. They do not understand that performance characteristics in complex systems are not their salary, which can be taken and "cut back". Let them try to make an aircraft engine whose planned resource will be 75% of the nominal or a sight with which you can detect a target at a range of 75% of the nominal.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. Dread
      Dread 3 February 2021 07: 22
      -1
      Quote: SovAr238A
      And at best, those Pantsiri that went to the UAE do not have a state identifier.

      SovAr238A - you are completely out of topic,
      The difference between the Russian air defense system and the export version is different anti-aircraft missiles and radars: SOTS, SSTs.
      1. SovAr238A
        SovAr238A 3 February 2021 17: 39
        +1
        Quote: Dread
        Quote: SovAr238A
        And at best, those Pantsiri that went to the UAE do not have a state identifier.

        SovAr238A - you are completely out of topic,
        The difference between the Russian air defense system and the export version is different anti-aircraft missiles and radars: SOTS, SSTs.

        Have you read the articles of the late 2000s?
        Everything is the same and the missiles are the same.
        9M311 by the way
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 2 February 2021 15: 54
    -2
    The Americans may need this car only for the next provocation. There is no secret for the United States in the performance characteristics of "Pantsir-S1E".
  12. evgen1221
    evgen1221 2 February 2021 18: 50
    +1
    The minimum composition of the mixtures ttrd and the range will be recognized. I do not think that the dry mixture is worse in quality and generally different in export missiles to armor.
  13. sevtrash
    sevtrash 2 February 2021 21: 09
    0
    The fact that the complex fell into the hands of a potential adversary is in any case undesirable. If the Americans did not expect to get something useful for themselves, they would not have taken it. On the other hand, there is always a possibility of this when selling to the side.
    But the main thing is different - Armor looked like a loser in Libya. You can explain their losses as you like, inadequate qualifications, service, improper conditions of use, etc., etc. The effect is still a little different. The main thing is to modify the complex and work on the advertising. Karabakh as an example.
    1. Petr Vladimirovich
      Petr Vladimirovich 3 February 2021 10: 24
      +2
      Soviet technology in the hands of the Egyptians looked like a loser, and the same technology in the hands of the Cubans in Angola looked like a winner, everything in this world is relative ...
  14. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 7 February 2021 00: 00
    +2
    Quote: Civil
    Is that image loss,

    But what about the "otvetka"?
    Why do the Americans steal almost any old and not so owl / Russian military equipment, but we cannot communicate from them or from NATO?
    How nice it would be to put the Merkava and Abramsa and Lepard on the exercises in the Cuban and shoot at them. So my studies would have gone better.