Military Review

"And nobody wants to buy the communist scrap metal Su-57 and J-20": Polish readers argued about the supply of F-35 fighters

224

It became known about the construction of the first F-35 fighter for the Danish Air Force. We are talking about the F-35A Lightning II fighter with the serial number AP-01, which will be transferred to the American center for testing. The tests will be carried out jointly by Lockheed Martin, representatives of the US Air Force and the Danish Air Force.


It is noteworthy that after the completion of the tests (and they are planned to be completed by the end of spring 2021), the aircraft will not leave the territory of the United States. It is indicated that until 2023 the Danish Air Force fighter will be located at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona. This is said to be necessary for the training of Danish pilots and technical personnel in the operation of the fifth generation fighter.

In total, Denmark will receive 27 F-35 fighters and four simulators.

These messages received special attention in Poland. There they reacted very jealously to reports that the first F-35 had already been created for the Danish Air Force, but not for Poland, which “positions itself as the main US ally in continental Europe”.

In the comments to the publication on the pages of the Polish military-thematic resource Defense24, there is a lack of understanding as to why "little" Denmark orders 27 fifth-generation fighters, and Poland "only 32". In response to this, it was noticed that Denmark is purchasing the F-35 with its own funds, but Poland has not so much “free funds” today, therefore, if you buy it, then on credit.

Stefan:

And everything is clear to me. Denmark's GDP per capita in 2019 is $ 53880, Poland's GDP is $ 33890. We have been building our economy since 1990, and they have been building since 1945.

Another Polish reader expressed satisfaction with the fact that American F-35s are actively bought in the world.

Isegg:

And what about the foreign sales of the Su-57 and J-20? Still zero orders? Nobody wants to buy this communist scrap metal because everyone prefers the F-35, which is cheaper and better than communist inventions.

In response, the user received a very objective answer from Jakiś tam:

Because they (Russia and China) do not force anyone to buy (their fighters), but the Americans are forcing their allies.

There was a kind of dispute about why some planes are bought in dozens, while others are not yet. The phrase "communist scrap metal" is used in a commentary on the publication in the media of a country that itself still largely lives on the legacy of the "building of communism" era.

Recall that earlier in Poland they announced their readiness to modernize their aircraft fleet, which also includes Soviet-built aircraft, with new combat aircraft, including the American F-35.
224 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Rufat
    Rufat 1 February 2021 08: 58
    +7
    Ish what. They don't like Russian scrap metal. Then let them buy expensive American
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 1 February 2021 09: 10
      -9
      among the Poles, definitely a deformation of consciousness ... there are no communists for about 30 years ... "democrats" and "liberasts" alone ... some have everything, others have not been given enough ... that's all the fuss. and the people look at old Kirkorov and Malakhov and go crazy ... well ... what they deserve ...
      1. Svetlana
        Svetlana 1 February 2021 09: 20
        +19
        What do you mean there are no communists? They are alive, God grant them health and these are our fathers and grandfathers.
        They have lost power, yes, but they are.
        1. Rufat
          Rufat 1 February 2021 10: 04
          +9
          In general, it seems to me that this experiment with capitalism is unsuccessful. Vorye climbed out. There is no happiness, as under socialism.
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 10: 39
            +18
            Quote: Rufat
            There is no happiness, as under socialism.

            I remembered ...

            A man comes to the store, puts a bunch of balloons on the counter.
            - Here, I bought it in your store yesterday ... Please take it back - they are defective.
            - What, full of holes?
            - No.
            - And what is the marriage then?
            - Not happy ...
            1. Rufat
              Rufat 1 February 2021 11: 17
              +6
              Nice anecdote. Thanks. They made me laugh.
              But seriously, those who have stolen are now held in high esteem. Under socialism, they also stole, but not on such a scale, and such thieves lived, fearing to go to prison.
              1. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 11: 56
                +8
                Quote: Rufat
                But seriously, those who have stolen are now held in high esteem. Under socialism, they also stole, but not on such a scale, and such thieves lived, fearing to go to prison.

                Yes, the scale, by Soviet standards, was also quite itself. In the late 80s, the director of the Lviv base Posyltorga was arrested with his driver. During the search only money (paper banknotes !!!) seized about one and a half million. Let someone tell me - WHERE and FOR WHAT in the Soviet Union you can spend one and a half million rubles? I figured it out - I counted the maximum of 100 thousand, well, let it be 150. This is even with my own sailing yacht (about 30 thousand rubles in 1989). Where else? Salt like cucumbers? By the way, they were given, by the way, in 1991, in the fall, after the "victory of democracy", three years of general regime to the director and five years, taking into account the previous convictions, to his driver. Amazing humanity!

                Of course, you cannot compare with today's. At that time, a member of the Politburo did not have as much as the head of the district administration now grabs. The President of South Korea gave Humpbacked Dog an American Express card with $ 200 on it. Think about it - to the President. THE USSR. A bribe. 200 thousand dollars! Even local administrations of all levels will laugh out loud at such a "bribe", not to mention the top administration and, moreover, the winners of loans-for-shares auctions of the 90s ...
                By the way, when the chairman of the Party Control Committee under the Central Committee of the CPSU B.K. Pugo asked him head-on - when he was going to hand over money from the card where it should be, Humpbacked Dog replied: "Then ..." Until now, I never did ...
                1. volodimer
                  volodimer 1 February 2021 13: 53
                  +7
                  Previously, the "privileges" of a dacha-car-servant-guard-hospital-zhrachka were an addition to the post held. If you want to grow more, you will get it. And now: I got to the trough, provide yourself now, then there may not be an opportunity.
                  Pugo B.K. shot himself ... I had to knock the hunchback.
                  Voryo in the USSR was, the examples you gave, this is, of course, delirium, kleptomania for researchers of abnormal mental deviations.
                  About Gorby ... as he was at the level of the collective farm chairman, he remained the same as the General Secretary of the CPSU and the head of the greatest country (for the Democrats, one of the two).
                2. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 1 February 2021 17: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: Zoldat_A
                  In the late 80s, the director of the Lviv base of Posyltorga was arrested with his driver. During the search only money (paper banknotes !!!) seized about one and a half million. Let someone tell me - WHERE and FOR WHAT in the Soviet Union you can spend one and a half million rubles?

                  Pfft ... people used to invest in gold. In the course of the case of the workers of the Leningrad trade in the 60s, only the director of the Leningrad Regional Wholesale and Trade Base was confiscated:
                  Zuikov was confiscated: 1616 gold coins of the tsarist minting of various denominations and 200 gold American dollars, weighing more than 12 kilograms; 5160 paper American dollars, 11 gold bars, including bars from a Swiss bank, 5 gold plates and 3 rolls of factory-made gold foil, as well as various gold products - a gold pre-revolutionary table medal, 4 brooches with diamonds and a bracelet (total weight approx. 3 kilograms), 16 loose diamonds weighing 61,85 carats and a string of pearls

                  Quote: Zoldat_A
                  Of course, you cannot compare with today's. At that time, a member of the Politburo did not have as much as the head of the district administration now grabs

                  Telman Khorenovich Gdlyan would clearly disagree with you. smile

                  "Cotton Business" has already become forgotten. But it was far from the only one. And not all members of the Politburo went to the investigation - they were afraid to touch the same Chevy, although only the lazy did not speak about corruption in Georgia.
                  1. strannik1985
                    strannik1985 1 February 2021 21: 00
                    +2
                    They have already begun to forget "Cotton Business".

                    You might think people were brought to the USSR from Mars. Of course there were corrupt officials, thieves, organized crime ... with one small distinction, the structure of finance made it possible to have an economy many times larger than a similar market one. While the fat one dries, the thin one will die ... Russia is now "thin", with all that it implies, and the foreign policy situation is gradually returning to the times of the late USSR.
                  2. cat Rusich
                    cat Rusich 1 February 2021 22: 36
                    0
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    In the late 80s, the director of the Lviv base of Posyltorga was arrested with his driver. During the search only money (paper banknotes !!!) seized about one and a half million. Let someone tell me - WHERE and FOR WHAT in the Soviet Union you can spend one and a half million rubles?

                    Pfft ... people used to invest in gold. In the course of the case of the workers of the Leningrad trade in the 60s, only the director of the Leningrad Regional Wholesale and Trade Base was confiscated:
                    Zuikov was confiscated: 1616 gold coins of the tsarist minting of various denominations and 200 gold American dollars, weighing more than 12 kilograms; 5160 paper American dollars, 11 gold bars, including bars from a Swiss bank, 5 gold plates and 3 rolls of factory-made gold foil, as well as various gold products - a gold pre-revolutionary table medal, 4 brooches with diamonds and a bracelet (total weight approx. 3 kilograms), 16 loose diamonds weighing 61,85 carats and a string of pearls
                    "On the other hand" - Professional criminal - according to concepts, he had no right to have property and a family.
                    A professional criminal who commits crimes all his life and directs crime - did not have money... But with the massive arrival of "Georgians", everything changed and money savings became the norm ... Even the sale of "thieves' crowns" became the norm.
                  3. iouris
                    iouris 1 February 2021 23: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    "Cotton business"

                    was organized against Andropov's competitors, and Shevardnadze and Gorbi were members of the "team." They brought Andropov's case to the end.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 2 February 2021 10: 17
                      +2
                      Quote: iouris
                      was organized against Andropov's competitors, and Shevardnadze and Gorbi were members of the "team." They brought Andropov's case to the end.

                      Not organized. We got things going. These are two different things.
                      Organized - this is when the business is molded from scratch. AND gave way - this is when the work proceeds on the facts that were previously collected, but for some reason did not go into action (the initial work was most often carried out generally illegally, since it was possible to work for such people only with the approval of the Central Committee).
                      EMNIP, almost a quarter of the USSR cotton harvest went to the left.
            2. Vitaly
              Vitaly 2 February 2021 18: 00
              0
              Well yes! Showy liberal democracy, hiding a capitalistic paradise for the golden billion, has lost its appeal in just thirty years.
          2. Incvizitor
            Incvizitor 1 February 2021 13: 48
            +3
            For a thief, a successful experiment, but there is no happiness for the people under capitalism; for themselves, the thief was built by itself and is fattening.
          3. Krasnoyarsk
            Krasnoyarsk 1 February 2021 21: 17
            +2
            Quote: Rufat
            There is no happiness, as under socialism.

            Why didn't you have happiness under socialism? Malnourished? Naked and barefoot? I've worked, which means my salary is on time. The money was, and therefore well-fed and dressed-shod. Not a single vacation was at home. With his family, then to the Crimea, then to his mother-in-law, then to his small homeland. Under socialism, I had two problems - to arrange a child in a kindergarten, which was solved by the acquisition of fiction for the home library. I thought my children and grandchildren would read. The children read until they left, and the grandchildren, when they arrive, all "sit" on their phones. You can't make you read a book. Today I don't go anywhere, only to my dacha - there are not enough funds for trips to the Crimea, to my mother-in-law, to my small homeland. True, I'm not starving, I won't lie.
            1. Rufat
              Rufat 2 February 2021 08: 34
              0
              Dear, you did not understand me correctly or I expressed myself incorrectly. I wanted to say the opposite. There is no happiness now. But under socialism it was.
              1. Krasnoyarsk
                Krasnoyarsk 2 February 2021 09: 37
                -1
                Quote: Rufat
                put it. I wanted to say the opposite. There is no happiness now. But it was under socialism.

                Yes, you can't argue with that. And not because we were young. Just because there were human beings around. And the laws were for people, not for bourgeois.
        2. frruc
          frruc 1 February 2021 10: 10
          +15
          Nobody wants to buy this communist scrap metal .............,
          who shoots, flies and shoots down with great success. Let's say thanks to Soviet and Russian science and the military-industrial complex.
          1. mojohed2012
            mojohed2012 1 February 2021 10: 20
            +11
            It is interesting that there is not a single Polish author in the world who would objectively compare our scrap metal and the scrap metal of their owners. Yes, I would indicate what they are better than ours. Then the discussion can be conducted, and the dispute. And so - the trend continues - barking at the bear, jump and growl, but do not look at the owner when a bear paw flies in your face. I wonder what kind of scrap metal in Poland is more "outstanding" than the communist one? A. None, so why are you excited?
            1. pytar
              pytar 1 February 2021 12: 36
              -9
              It is interesting that there is not a single Polish author in the world who would objectively compare our scrap metal and the scrap metal of their owners. Yes, I would indicate what they are better than ours

              Have you checked all over the world? laughing Are you sure you haven't? Do you, as an interested party in disputes, consider yourself routine?
              Then the discussion can be conducted, and the dispute.

              By publishing tendentiously selected articles, discussion on ru-resources becomes impossible. The goal of propaganda is different ... And apparently the Poles do not write here, since no one will listen to them. They will immediately be cursed! bully
              And so - the trend continues - bark at the bear, jump and growl

              It is enough to look through here on the forum ... All this is in off-scale quantities!
              1. Lionnvrsk
                Lionnvrsk 1 February 2021 12: 56
                +2
                Quote: pytar
                They will immediately be cursed!

                Well, they listen to the balgarin. yes So they would have listened to Polaka. If adequate, then why not talk to a person. hi
                1. pytar
                  pytar 1 February 2021 13: 07
                  -6
                  Well, they listen to the balgarin. So they would have listened to Polaka. If adequate, then why not talk to a person.

                  According to my observations, the majority here do not want to listen to a different opinion. Disputes are viewed as a "battle" in which "must win", show yourself cool! laughing Thus, the cognitive meaning is lost, everything turns into a verbal fight. laughing Mentality, nothing can be done about it. request
                  1. mojohed2012
                    mojohed2012 1 February 2021 13: 34
                    +5
                    Yes "no verbal brawl here turns." It's just that everyone expressed their "opinions". Mine is that everything here is for objective assessments and comparisons, and not for throwing insults and rattling with Greater Poland's dignity. If Poland had "its own scrap metal", there would be no questions. Well, let's write some Patrice from Morocco that the Russians still have Soviet scrap metal and the Chinese too. and the result? Well, he fucked up a foreign country, foreign technologies, licking the hegemon, and what's the point? And he himself has at least such a building of his own scrap metal? Not!
                  2. Lionnvrsk
                    Lionnvrsk 1 February 2021 16: 17
                    -1
                    Quote: pytar
                    According to my observations, the majority here do not want to listen to a different opinion. Disputes are viewed as a "battle" in which "must win", show yourself cool!

                    Well, I don’t know, I don’t know why you have such an impression, but I think that you are wrong. Many people simply have a completely different opinion based on their personal experience and therefore some who have their own experience do not understand the former. In an area of ​​compact residence, like Bulgaria, it is easier for the same opinion to form. In our vast country, stretched over 11 time zones and 4 natural zones, with a bunch of nationalities and customs, of course there is a significant amount of opinions and it is more difficult to come to a common one. At the same time, everyone believes that he is more to the right. So it's not about the toughness. We argued with you in one of the topics about Varna, talked and parted, didn't seem to be cool. And there are enough fools, provocateurs, zombies, etc. everywhere. hi
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 1 February 2021 17: 09
                      -2
                      Probably wrong. I do not pretend to be the first instance. It seems to me that despite the size of the country, yours have a more clearly expressed extreme in their opinions. More precisely, there are a couple of basic theses and everyone is grouped around them. And ours even have a proverb - how many people, such opinions! Polarization "or / or" rare. Of course there are questions on which most agree. As for the Poles, from a little communication experience, the impressions are quite positive. hi
                      1. Lionnvrsk
                        Lionnvrsk 1 February 2021 17: 36
                        -1
                        Quote: pytar
                        As for the Poles, from a little communication experience, the impressions are quite positive.

                        All are mostly dominated by ordinary people, with their own needs, joys, troubles, mistakes and whims.
                        There were three Poles in my class - Olga, Caesar and Maciej. The first two are ordinary guys, and the last is an obvious follower of Pilsudski.
                  3. Pete mitchell
                    Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 13: 48
                    +1
                    Quote: pytar
                    Mentality, nothing can be done about it.
                    Correctly mentality: completely negative about betrayalespecially when it begins to be promoted as a worthy act.
                    And by the way, you & Co. we have to thank - a free confirmation that you can't turn your back on Eastern Europe ...
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 3 February 2021 18: 31
                      -1
                      Correct mentality: completely negative attitude to betrayal ...

                      It is unlikely that anyone in the world has a mentality positively related to betrayal.
                      ... especially when it starts to be promoted as a worthy act.

                      Propaganda can do "miracles"! She can convince that the same act is a betrayal (if it was done by others) or a commendable deed (if you did it)! How much deeper the ignorance, so much more successful propaganda! yes
                      And by the way, you & Co. we have to thank - a free confirmation that you can't turn your back on Eastern Europe ...

                      Since you have one back, wherever it turns "there will be traitors." Now external, then internal. This is not a healthy, not normal state. yes
                      1. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 18: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        you & Co. we have to thank - a free confirmation that you can't turn your back on Eastern Europe ...

                        If you and Co. "Weird" in their own interests, it would be understandable .., you will gain independence - please contact: this is a topic to which the Russian Federation is constantly slipping into a discussion with "independent countries of Eastern Europe"
                      2. pytar
                        pytar 3 February 2021 21: 29
                        -1
                        You Pete Mitchell are not Eastern Europe and not even the Russian Federation ... laughing okay, let's go ...
                        Politics is guided by interests. Interests change over time. This is always the case. Many of you, trying to discuss global topics, come from propaganda clichés. Why do you think that the EU (including V. Evr.) Has interests closer to the Russian Federation than, for example, to the United States? Why did you decide that BE should turn to the Russian Federation, if only, so that ...?! bully
                        I will make an agreement: For my country, for a number of reasons, relations with the Russian Federation are very important! But we are a separate entity, apart from the so-called .. bully
                      3. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 21: 57
                        +1
                        Quote: pytar
                        do you think that the EU (incl. V. Evr.) interests are closer to the Russian Federation than, for example, the United States? How did you decide that BE should contact the Russian Federation

                        I never said that the EU, BE should be tied to the Russian Federation. I have always said that we should be tied to our own interests, and not to the interests of someone else's uncle. If you are interested in sitting on amerovskoy nipple - go ahead, the main thing is not to forget that this is your decision and do not whine afterwards.
                      4. pytar
                        pytar 3 February 2021 22: 04
                        -1
                        Who are you to decide what is in our interests? And why did you decide that (conditionally) ours are interesting and your loved ones, but American antagonistic ?!
                        Again I will clarify: We are talking about Europe! I put Bulgarian ones among the exceptions. Topic for another conversation.
                      5. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 22: 10
                        +1
                        You are my dear, beguiled something, read carefully
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        never said that the EU, BE should be tied to the Russian Federation. I have always said that we should be tied to our own interests, and not to the interests of someone else's uncle. If you are interested in sitting on amerovskoy nipple - go ahead, the main thing is not to forget that this is your decision and do not whine afterwards.

                        Do you believe that the Americans are offering you partnership relations: look at the FRG, and they will be heavier than you and the whole BE, together with the Baltic states. Live as you want, just do not portray innocence later on and you will be happy
                      6. pytar
                        pytar 3 February 2021 22: 33
                        -1
                        So you dear, take it and read my answer!
                        And why did you decide that (conditionally) ours are interesting and your loved ones, but American antagonistic ?!

                        The West is certainly not monolithic; there are different economic and ideological interests. Having sacrificed ideology for economic interests, they already have China, which tomorrow will dictate ideology to them!
                      7. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 22: 37
                        +1
                        So rejoice - the main thing is not to complain later.
                        I hope the Russian Federation has learned the lessons and will not repeat the mistakes of the times developed socialism
                      8. pytar
                        pytar 3 February 2021 22: 48
                        -1
                        I express only my personal opinion. I have no authority to speak for others. You too, so your advice is clearly at the wrong place. I can say one thing for sure - states are guided by their own interests and by nothing else! As for the lessons, I see the same mistakes as with the developed social system - authoritarianism, oligarchy, monopoly, lag in all areas. I believe that Russia will purify itself, recover and take its rightful place among the advanced countries of the world! Hope gives a new free-thinking generation!
                        God bless Russia and sew brothers Russia!
  • frruc
    frruc 1 February 2021 16: 26
    +2
    There are, of course, decent weapons in the world. But in Russia it is not customary to hold someone else's weapon in their hands. We create our own weapons, make them better, more reliable and more efficient.
    1. pytar
      pytar 1 February 2021 17: 23
      -1
      But in Russia it is not customary to hold someone else's weapon in their hands. We create our own weapons, make them better, more reliable and more effective.

      Mistrals ... L-29, 39, BA Iveco, etc. And if we look historically, there were licensed production facilities, as well as direct deliveries in huge quantities. Of course, it is preferable not to depend on external sources. hi
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 13: 50
        +1
        Do not confuse the interests of politics, you have decided so for other reasons. And again demonstrated that it was a mistake
        1. pytar
          pytar 3 February 2021 21: 38
          -1
          From my point of view, you are confusing things. With open channels for the exchange of technology, the country is developing faster. Cooperation, distribution of labor is always more effective! Russia would be very willing to participate. Therefore, and whenever there was an opportunity, they bought everything that could be "useful on the farm." This is normal. The transition to "import substitution" forced the mayor. In a normal situation, it is carried out differently, the goal is different, and so on. I don’t want to go into details, I’d better drink some coffee. bully
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 21: 50
            +1
            Division of labor with whom? With "probable partners"? Even with regard to L-29/39, this was a mistake, although I liked it. This may be interesting to you, but for the Russian Federation it is a mistake which is based on politics, nothing more - it did not help by the way: “partners” shit without hesitation
          2. pytar
            pytar 3 February 2021 21: 59
            -1
            So now the relationship is ruined! Translated into plain language: If I don't like you, I don't want to deal with you. It doesn't even make sense to shout who is right. The situation is likely to resolve by itself, since the impending planetary cataclysms will force the Serditkovites to deal with the rescue of the Planet.
          3. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 22: 34
            +1
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            Division of labor with whom? With "probable partners"? Even with regard to L-29/39, this was a mistake, although I liked it. You may be interested in this, but for the Russian Federation it is a mistake based on politics.

            About a month after the start of the comparative tests, an event occurred that seemed to have no direct relation to flights to Monino: the President of Czechoslovakia Antonin Novotny flew to Moscow on a visit ... it was at this meeting that it was decided to specialize the aviation industry of Czechoslovakia in the creation and serial production of TCB countries of the Warsaw Pact. Therefore, NS Khrushchev made a "political decision": to build a Czechoslovakian plane. It is known how the flirtation with Czechoslovakia ended. The Soviet aviation industry was dealt another Khrushchev blow, the consequences of which will be felt in decades. The promising direction of aviation development in our country was closed. Technology has once again lost to politics such a story ..
          4. pytar
            pytar 3 February 2021 23: 02
            -1
            I know. Such events took place. We closed the aviation industry, and then the auto industry. For the sake of the Kremlin party elite. The command and control system caused damage to everyone, both those who commanded and those who were in command. This was along the line of "social cooperation". Non-free anti-competitive environment. Party bosses decided in the offices. By the way, the Czechs are still developing modifications of the L-39 and selling them around the world. We have always had a developed industry! The nation is technical, nothing can be said about it! hi
          5. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 3 February 2021 23: 17
            +1
            Quote: pytar
            We have always had a developed industry! The nation is technical, nothing can be said about it
            You will also offer to be happy for them, especially when they sweated on the Nazis
            Quote: pytar
            Czechs are still developing modifications of the L-39 and selling them around the world
            It doesn't surprise me at all that they refuse to remember how this successful project was given impetus; It is surprising that they completely refuse to remember how the Americans, with their boeing hands, framed them with -159th and with an innocent face cut them the national debt. Once I rode in a long Tatra and shared ...
          6. pytar
            pytar 4 February 2021 00: 48
            -1
            You will also offer to be happy for them, especially when they sweated on the Nazis

            Pete Mitchell, I won't offer anything, but if you really want to, you can jump up, scold them, beat a Czech doll with a needle, all at your own discretion! laughing You can be sure - they will not know about your / and my way / existence! laughing
            I am not at all surprised that they refuse to remember how this successful project was given impetus ...

            Who are "they"? laughing Probably there is someone who knows, but the majority is unlikely. This is normal. You don't know a lot either ... bully
          7. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 4 February 2021 14: 21
            +1
            This is no longer fun, but as always
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            It doesn't surprise me at all that they refuse to remember how this successful project was given impetus; surprises that they completely refuse to remember how the Americans, with their boeing hands, framed them with -159 ..
            Funny that former relatives consider it legitimate to project their historical fears about the actions of the RI / Union on the modern situation and at the same time begin "Walk by yourself" if there is a need to designate the robbery of amers: purely specifically in airwaves lol Let's see how they will talk to you in ten years, when they finally bind you with their supplies. An example of the Turks for you as a visual aid and fair wind.
            Quote: pytar
            I won't offer anything, but if you really want to, you can jump up, scold them, beat a Czech doll with a needle

            And it's right that you can suggest: follow overseas cults - we prefer our fairy tales: if something happens, just sprinkle with chalk ... Historically, we use something powerful .., for example, a mace.
          8. pytar
            pytar 4 February 2021 16: 18
            -1
            This is no longer fun, but as always

            Pete Mitchell, you somehow live sadnenko ... No. You can wipe the windows, and if you are a fisherman even better on a fishing trip, they will be thrown. I don’t know how your weather was, we have just the same one! drinks

            It's funny that former relatives think ...

            There are no "former" relatives. Kinship is based on blood ties (SK RF). But relations between relatives are sometimes very bad, yes! sad

            And that's right what you have to offer ...

            You are a strange man, Pete Mitchell! Nothing suits you! It's not that!

            Be more positive! fellow

            ..we use something powerful .., a mace for example.

            With this ... take a closer look, drop it on your foot !!! belay
          9. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell 4 February 2021 16: 31
            +1
            Should we be in sorrow. Speaking about Bulava, I am very positive, Russian fairy tales teach this
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            ..we use something powerful .., a mace for example.

            And observation of "evolution" former relatives only confirm: even at the household level it is better not to hope, it is safer. And even less able to influence my mood.
            Beware of chalk, otherwise it will be like in a joke about a mace laughing
  • ironic
    ironic 1 February 2021 18: 34
    0
    And we order "dual-purpose" server boards (you know what that means) to be developed in Israel. My friend did one of these.
  • ironic
    ironic 1 February 2021 18: 31
    0
    Those who write this will not be able to check anything, they do not understand what they read in their own language, so they do not ask anyone about anything, they are not readers, they are writers.
  • orionvitt
    orionvitt 1 February 2021 13: 46
    +4
    Quote: mojohed2012
    there is not a single Polish author in the world who would objectively compare our scrap metal and the scrap metal of their owners

    Polish "experts" forgot to add the main thing. That the F-35 program was once again temporarily suspended due to fatal defects, lack of funds and political games. The states have already seriously thought about whether such an expensive and very mediocre plane is needed in general. However, they will sell this "miracle of the 21st century" to various Poles and other zealous US allies with great pleasure. At the expense of the "colonial tax", so to speak, for protection from the terrible Russia. laughing
  • Zoldat_A
    Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 10: 34
    +9
    Quote: frruc
    Nobody wants to buy this communist scrap metal .............,
    who shoots, flies and shoots down with great success. Let's say thanks to Soviet and Russian science and the military-industrial complex.


    because everyone prefers F-35, cheaper and better than communist inventions.
    For 30 years the Poles have not only forgotten history. They also forgot how to count.

    Su-57.Unit cost - 2,236 billion rubles (~$ 30 million). The cost of the development program is 60 billion rubles (~1,65 billion dollars)

    F-35. Unit cost - F-35B: $ 108,1 million, F-35C: $ 93,3 million Development program cost 55,1 billion dollars

    To present a calculator to the Poles or will they count on fingers? fool
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 1 February 2021 11: 16
      +3
      "F-35. Unit cost - F-35B:" ///
      ----
      You forgot the unit cost of the F-35A. They are bought
      both Danes and Poles. Their price is 88 million.
      And, of course, the cost of the Su-57 is much more than $ 30 million.
      Su-30 cost 35 million.
      1. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 1 February 2021 11: 22
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        And, of course, the cost of the Su-57 is much more than $ 30 million.
        Su-30 cost 35 million.

        There are no such prices. It is not clear how internal prices are formed. These aircraft are exported with the following cost:
        The Su-30 is somewhere around $ 70-80 million, the Su-35 is around $ 100 million, the MiG-29/35 is around $ 50-60 million.
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 12: 04
        +6
        Quote: voyaka uh
        "F-35. Unit cost - F-35B:" ///
        ----
        You forgot the unit cost of the F-35A. They are bought
        both Danes and Poles. Their price is 88 million.
        And, of course, the cost of the Su-57 is much more than $ 30 million.
        Su-30 cost 35 million.

        Written in Kommersant, which certainly in the last place, one can suspect in sympathy for the authorities, "hurray-patriotism" and the desire to show "how good everything is with us, but everything is bad in the West"
        The cost of the contract for 76 Su-57 fighters for the formation of three air regiments, according to the Kommersant newspaper, is estimated at 170 billion rubles, which is approximately $ 2,6 billion at the rate of 65 rubles for $ 1, or about $ 35,6 million per plane.
        https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3968914
        1. pytar
          pytar 1 February 2021 12: 42
          -5
          The cost of the contract for 76 Su-57 fighters to form three air regiments, according to the Kommersant newspaper, is estimated at 170 billion rubles, which is approximately $ 2,6 billion at the rate of 65 rubles per $ 1, or about $ 35,6 million for one aircraft.

          So this is the internal price! It is clearly not taking into account the infrastructure and other related costs! There is no export yet, in view of the absence of the Su-57 for export!
          And the F-35 is exported quite well! And the price looks adequate!
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 13: 13
            +8
            Quote: pytar
            And the F-35 is exported quite well!

            If it was bought because it is needed or because it is the best ... And so - it is bought as a "test for democracy." You buy means OUR. If you don’t buy it, it’s pro-Russian ... What the hell is he for Australia? With whom to fight, from whom to defend? Australia is not the Tribaltic, not Poland or Bulgaria, which we so dream to capture that we can’t eat ...
            1. Reviews
              Reviews 1 February 2021 13: 45
              -2
              Quote: Zoldat_A
              What the hell is he about Australia? With whom to fight, from whom to defend?

              And with whom was she to fight in the 1970s and 80s, when they bought modern, for their time, aircraft? Australia is quite a developed country that wants to have a modern armed force, regardless of whether there is someone to fight with or not.
              However, now they have China at their side. Quite an opponent.
            2. pytar
              pytar 1 February 2021 13: 47
              -5
              If it was bought because it is needed or because it is the best ... And so - it is bought as a "test for democracy." If you buy, it means OUR. If you don't buy, it means pro-Russian ...

              Popular suggestion in ru-propaganda. laughing At the moment there are no competing offers of that class in the world. And in other classes, cars from different manufacturers compete quite well and are sold. Of course, politics matters too, you can't argue with that. yes
              About how well the F-35 is, you can only judge during real battles. There are not many of them and they are specific / Israel /, so all blah-blah-blah remain speculations.
              What the hell is he about Australia? With whom to fight, from whom to defend?

              Australia borders Mohamedan Indonesia. A country with a population 10 times larger than Australia. Besides, China is not so far away ... It is clear that direct military confrontation is unlikely, but still ... if you want peace, get ready for war!
              1. Zoldat_A
                Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 15: 35
                +4
                Quote: pytar
                Popular suggestion in ru-propaganda.

                Here you are, Boyan, Bulgarian. Well, Bulgaria will scrape together money for a dozen F-35s - they are good and cheap. Well, even for two dozen, okay. Are they in a conflict, even a local one, will make the weather? It is the sale by America of 5-10-15 planes to its satellites that is the "test for lice", that is, for loyalty to Washington. In military terms, 5-15 units in the army of any country are useless, but small countries inspire a feeling of touching the Great ... Self-esteem flies up without brakes.
                And America sees - who can already twist, and who else needs additional processing.
                Well, money too. For Bulgaria or Poland, almost the last. Even if not the latter, they are far from superfluous. And for America - a trifle, but nice.
              2. pytar
                pytar 1 February 2021 16: 54
                -1
                Are they in a conflict, even a local one, will they make the weather? It is the sale by America of 5-10-15 planes to its satellites that is the "check for lice" ... In military terms, 5-15 aircraft in the army of any country are useless, but small countries inspire a feeling of touching the Great ...

                Dear, rarely any country buys large quantities! It doesn't matter from whom, from Russia too! The facts are at odds with your emotions ... bully When people buy from you, it looks different, right? laughing
              3. akarfoxhound
                akarfoxhound 1 February 2021 22: 05
                0
                "A large number" - this is at least 2-3 regiments for a country the size of Bulgaria or Poland, everything else (to reduce) for the conduct of hostilities belongs to the category "And we have!" You accuse people of being biased, and you yourself are conducting a "dialogue" on this topic in full! wink
            3. pytar
              pytar 1 February 2021 17: 38
              0
              Well, money too. For Bulgaria or Poland, almost the last. Even if not the latter, they are far from superfluous. And for America - a trifle, but nice.

              Corridor of your thoughts: bully / please do not be offended, take it as a joke /
              Bought from the USA: "vparili, junk, 9999 defects ..."
              Bought from you: "Bravo, well done! the necessary weight! what you need!"
              A trifle, but nice, right? wink
            4. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 17: 55
              +1
              Quote: pytar
              Bought from the USA: "vparili, junk, 9999 defect ..."
              We bought from you: "Bravo, well done! The necessary weight! That is necessary!"

              In terms of quantity, you can buy THREE times more from us. Minimum. And 45 exterminators is not 15. And we do not require puppy loyalty for the fact that we have graciously allowed to buy something from us.
              For us, this is not a political question, but ONLY a monetary one. No one presses on anyone and does not expect eternal gratitude. And, even more so, from our side there is no and there has never been what in business is called "unfair competition", when the media, politicians, bankers, sanctions are involved in advertising and selling goods ...

              Vaughn, Erdogan. Well, I bought myself an S-400 and bought it ... Well, it’s not our fault that it seemed to him that they were better than the Patriot (he deliberately didn’t write just “better” in order not to enter corridor of thought). bully
            5. pytar
              pytar 1 February 2021 18: 41
              0
              In terms of quantity, you can buy THREE times more from us. Minimum. And 45 fighters are not 15.

              Dear ... your colleague OgnennyiKotik above explained:
              The Su-30 is somewhere around $ 70-80 million, the Su-35 is around $ 100 million, the MiG-29/35 is around $ 50-60 million. Do not confuse export prices with domestic prices ... Wishful thinking! bully
              For us, this is not a political question, but ONLY a monetary one.

              The issue of arms trade is always political, except for money. Politics and business are inextricably linked.
              Farther...
              Take 2 - Corridor of your thoughts: bully
              Bought from the USA: "require puppy loyalty, graciously allowed to buy from themselves"
              Bought from you: "no one presses on anyone and does not expect eternal gratitude"
              from our side, there is no and never was what in business is called "unfair competition", when the media, politicians, bankers, sanctions are involved in advertising and selling goods ...

              It is immediately evident - no relation to the real Ross. do not have a business! laughing You are a naive person if you believe that Russian businessmen are somehow different from their Western or Eastern colleagues! laughing If they can, they will take off your last tattered pants! laughing
              It is only true that no sanctions are introduced. Counter-sanctions are introduced.
              Vaughn, Erdogan. Well, I bought myself an S-400 and bought ... they are better than the Patriot

              And who said which is worse? The S-400 is a serious little thing, although it has not shot down a single aircraft so far! "Patriot" knocked down something, missed something. And Erdogan's considerations are again political. Emu needed a private air defense system independent of the United States, otherwise the conspirators with the next coup can have time ... wink Yes, and some iron, he does not mind, because something new to teach ... the Turks have long been trying to make an analog. hi
            6. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 21: 27
              +1
              Quote: pytar
              It is immediately evident - no relation to the real Ross. do not have a business!

              You, Boyan, are right ... None. For over 25 years. And only a few hundred people in my organization are building from fences to multi-storey buildings - is this a business? For Europeans Russian, if he does not trade in oil or gas, then this is not a business. But the American business. Even selling hot dogs on the street is a business. And the water in America is wet, sugar and sweeter, and negros blacker. And even shit smells like violets.
            7. pytar
              pytar 1 February 2021 22: 11
              -1
              In that case, you are a rare exception! Congratulations! good But this is a small business or okay ... average. But we're not talking about fences and houses, but about the arms trade, where billions of dollars are spinning. There are no moral considerations! By the way, your colleagues of that level are correct in the USA and probably in one degree or another. There are also scammers as well.
        2. ironic
          ironic 1 February 2021 18: 42
          0
          Was Erdogan offered a Patriot? Precisely what is not. They offered me when I had already bought it and then in vain.
          What can you suggest as an alternative as a high-tech non-heavy fighter bomber and frontline fighter? MiG-35? In what year and to what extent is everything finished there with AFAR? I'm not talking about the 5th generation.
    2. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 18: 41
      0
      In a local conflict, they can do even more weather than in a global one.
  • ironic
    ironic 1 February 2021 18: 39
    0
    Australia, he is to replace the planes flying off, which are in service. Why shouldn't she choose to replace a technologically strong aircraft?
  • ironic
    ironic 1 February 2021 18: 38
    0
    Well, yes, it is estimated, but what kind of it we will see. Especially when the whole contract is over.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • bad
    bad 1 February 2021 12: 53
    +21
    Quote: frruc
    Nobody wants to buy this communist scrap metal.

    Want to buy democratic scrap metal
  • marchcat
    marchcat 1 February 2021 09: 24
    +2
    Poles are like capricious children left without a "toy".
  • The comment was deleted.
  • paul3390
    paul3390 1 February 2021 09: 43
    +3
    there are no communists for 30 years

    Do you want to assure me that I, my comrades, my like-minded people do not exist ?? belay

    "He almost drove me crazy, proving to me that I was not there!" (c) wink
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 10: 43
      +5
      Paul, hi !
      Quote: paul3390
      Do you want to assure me that I, my comrades, my like-minded people do not exist ??

      Be careful, Pavel ... Otherwise, in America, the defense minister will jump out of the window again, and Russia will be accused of "driving to suicide." laughing In those years, for America, "communist" was by definition equal to "Russian". And vice versa.

      For me, for example, there is no more Russian than E. Urbansky in the film "Communist".
      Urbansky
    2. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 18: 46
      0
      As in that joke - Exists, but completely in vain. (This is not about the Russians, but about the communist worldview, otherwise famous people will come running and they will attribute Russophobia).
      1. paul3390
        paul3390 1 February 2021 18: 47
        +1
        On the other hand, as I understand it, you live a life filled with the deepest meaning ..
        1. ironic
          ironic 1 February 2021 19: 16
          0
          As an ideological opponent of leftist ideologies, it is no longer in vain. How effective is it? Time will tell.
          1. paul3390
            paul3390 1 February 2021 20: 01
            +1
            Of course not in vain. You and your like-minded people have ruined Russia, and you can retire.
            1. ironic
              ironic 1 February 2021 20: 48
              -2
              Who are you? The Tsarist secret police and the anti-Semites flowing to it among the intelligentsia, with the Tsar's personal permission, practically financing the creation of Trotsky's organization with the aim of destroying Russian Jewry from within? I am neither one nor the other, even on a square kilometer, not a like-minded person, in the sense of pulling down trousers. And the real hero of the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe, who was not afraid to speak out against both those and against these, at his full height and miraculously escaped first from the torture chambers of the secret police, and therefore from the torture chambers of the communist, shouted at the top of his voice and called on the Russian intelligentsia and the authorities to stop this madness which will end in bloody disaster. And he forbade his students to go to disputes with Trotsky and his people. But it will not be politically correct to mention his heroism, because you will have to admit the hard-hitting truth about who is really to blame and who was the first to oppose.
              How, then, to spread another historical blood libel and how to cover up your shame?
              So you ditched and history sent you to rest in the end. I will always fight against left-wing radicals in any country and among any people. All the troubles of the world come from you.
              1. paul3390
                paul3390 1 February 2021 22: 15
                0
                Well, try it, fight .. God willing - in the fight you will see each other .. At least I will know to whom and for what I clean the nasty snout ..
                1. ironic
                  ironic 1 February 2021 22: 23
                  0
                  Well, so far, everything happens the other way around. But more and more left-wing radicals are being cleansed. They have temporary successes in the States, but this is not for long, by the standards of history. Chet you do badly even with the cleaning of the muzzles of the world, not that more.
  • 210ox
    210ox 1 February 2021 10: 34
    +3
    In some ways you are right. Indeed, there are no those former communists. Koi were under Stalin. Now it is a screen, nothing else.
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 21: 01
      -1
      People who truly believed in this untenable idea were people not under Stalin, but in spite of Stalin, although for some time they believed that Stalin was the leader of such an idea, as my grandfather believed, until he realized that he had devoted his entire life to faith in an idol. Shortly before his death, he confessed to his mother that he had been wrong all his life.
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 1 February 2021 09: 14
    +3
    Quote: Rufat
    They don't like Russian scrap metal

    "Communist", colleague, "communist". It's time for Russia, and indeed to look closely at communism, all the same, the Westerners will still remember this to us. laughing laughing
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 1 February 2021 09: 48
      +3
      I agree. Let's not disappoint non-brothers. At the same time, we will realize the nightmare of our elite.
    2. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 21: 04
      0
      Usually, those who are looking at communism look where they actually go. Take a closer look at American left movements today, this is the future of entry into neo-communism.
      1. pytar
        pytar 1 February 2021 22: 16
        0
        Soviet communism did not have time to destroy America! A homemade American can do it! laughing
        1. ironic
          ironic 1 February 2021 22: 24
          +1
          I don’t think that left-wing radicalism is always like a wave, it will roll over, roll back, the sand will remain.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 1 February 2021 09: 27
    +1
    Quote: Rufat
    Ish what. They don't like Russian scrap metal.

    They are now buying Ukrainian scrap metal:
    In the first half of 1, Keramet PrJSC, one of the leading Ukrainian scrap collection companies, increased the supply of scrap metal to enterprises located in Poland and Hungary 2015 times compared to the same period last year, to 2,4 thousand tons. UAprom was informed by the press service of the company.
    http://uaprom.info/news/146644-keramet-uvelichil-polgoda-postavki-metalloloma-polshe-vengrii-pochti-25-raza.html
  • RealPilot
    RealPilot 1 February 2021 10: 03
    +3
    You look - a proud pshek ...
    But in fact - zilch laughing
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 10: 58
      +12
      Quote: RealPilot
      You look - a proud pshek ...
      But in fact - zilch laughing

  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 1 February 2021 10: 30
    +3
    You seem to let them buy. "Let them buy an American ..." Who will ask them? The owner will say "buy" and will buy. Lyakhskoe arrogance under the heel and wallet to the ready. Poles.
    1. mojohed2012
      mojohed2012 1 February 2021 13: 39
      +2
      And they will buy it. But in fact, the F-35 has never won a single real battle or psychological confrontation. Nowhere have they been tested by our air defense radar and Officially. But we see that democratic scrap metal is being pushed to the vassals, having sprinkled the demand to buy with cartoons and videos, where their scrap metal beats ours or Chinese.
      And their warriors themselves keep quiet about something.
      1. ironic
        ironic 1 February 2021 18: 49
        -2
        You don't know where ...
        1. mojohed2012
          mojohed2012 2 February 2021 08: 36
          0
          I'm embarrassed to ask - where? please introduce me to the course.
          1. ironic
            ironic 2 February 2021 14: 43
            +1
            Yes, it seems like in Israel it has long been not only combat-ready, but also used for its intended purpose.
  • Souchastnik
    Souchastnik 1 February 2021 10: 56
    +2
    Then let them buy expensive American

    Poland's problem is that there is no money either for "communist scrap metal" or for "expensive American" ones. Apparently you have to buy Super Tucano. And then they will beg for a loan.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 1 February 2021 11: 05
    +1
    Quote: Rufat
    Ish what. They don't like Russian scrap metal. Then let them buy expensive American

    How can you buy something that has not really gone into production (the j20 is being built, but these are the first stage cars, without the engines they require). The aircraft of Russia and China have not yet been fully brought to the level of combat use. As soon as they really go into production, export contracts will go ...
  • venik
    venik 1 February 2021 14: 17
    0
    Quote: Rufat
    They don't like Russian scrap metal. Then let them buy expensive American

    =======
    We got a little confused with the endings: it would be more correct - "expensiveЙ AmericanЙ..." hi drinks
  • The point
    The point 1 February 2021 15: 01
    +1
    They are snagged by the word "communist", like many even in our country, although for almost 30 years we have had the same rabid capitalism. Psheki slow down a little. Well, it was not without envy.
  • svp67
    svp67 1 February 2021 17: 42
    +1
    Quote: Rufat
    They don't like Russian scrap metal.

    Well, well ... and which one they fly now and are in no hurry to write off
  • Peaceful SEO
    Peaceful SEO 2 February 2021 14: 02
    0
    You might think someone would allow the servants to buy non-master's tsatzki
  • Dmitriy444
    Dmitriy444 1 February 2021 09: 00
    +3
    Another independent and proud victim of the damned Muscovites.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 1 February 2021 09: 16
      -2
      Quote: Dmitriy444
      Another independent and proud victim of the damned Muscovites.

      otherwise they would go to the Black (Baltic) Sea in a single rush? Well, how did two comrades serve? I would respect the deed. I would take off my hat and drink ... spat and forget.
  • mark1
    mark1 1 February 2021 09: 03
    +5
    Not everyone has a snout out to sell him "communist scrap metal"
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 1 February 2021 09: 19
      -1
      Quote: mark1
      "communist scrap metal"

      while "rules".
    2. MMX
      MMX 1 February 2021 10: 55
      +2
      Indeed, I also had a question: why are there no orders for our Su-57 on the international market? It is both cheaper and no worse (as stated), but the line of buyers does not line up request
      1. Alexander Seklitsky
        Alexander Seklitsky 1 February 2021 12: 08
        +2
        Quote: MMX
        Indeed, I also had a question: why are there no orders for our Su-57 on the international market?

        What do we have to offer? We ourselves only have it in the series. The second serial sample was collected and then the first managed to be smashed. And in order to sell the equipment, it must be in service with us and be mastered. Even if contracts were concluded, you still cannot jump above your head and the plant will not be able to give these aircraft to the customer, since it is still loaded with the production of su 35S
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 1 February 2021 09: 07
    +5
    "And I understand everything. Denmark's GDP per capita in 2019 is $ 53880, Poland's GDP is $ 33890. We have been building our economy since 1990, and they have been building since 1945." - well, yes, but until 1990 we lived only on handouts ...
    1. Alevil
      Alevil 1 February 2021 10: 44
      +3
      They lived on handouts after 1990 laughing
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 1 February 2021 10: 46
        +3
        Quote: Alevil
        They lived on handouts after 1990

        So that's the humor ... But swagger is more than panache ..
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 21: 42
          +1
          Quote: mat-vey
          until 1990 only on handouts and lived ...

          Quote: Alevil
          They lived on handouts after 1990

          Quote: mat-vey
          So that's humor ...

          Only the giver has changed.
          Until 1990, the Union gave money and built so that the Poles did not bark too much. And after 1990, Europe began to give money so that the Poles, Europe, would not interfere with their envy and bark exclusively at Russia.
          If the Germans specifically cut off the money tap, or Brussels as a whole, how can the Poles bark all over the world? Enough barking?
    2. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 1 February 2021 11: 23
      +2
      "And I understand everything. Denmark's GDP per capita in 2019 is $ 53880, Poland's GDP is $ 33890. We have been building our economy since 1990, and they have been building since 1945."
      Quote: mat-vey
      well, yes, but until 1990 we lived only on handouts ...

      It was us, the USSR, who built their economy from 1945 to 1985. And the Poles themselves, since 1990, have only been ruining what the USSR managed to build before 1985.

      Lech Walesa, for example, has a lot to say about the Gdansk Shipyard. How much she built and what, to whom and what she sold ... Except for one thing - what is she doing now.
      In 1996 JSC "Shipyard Gdansk" filed for bankruptcy. The fact that the place where the hope for a better life was born has fallen victim to the changes brought about by its workers, made many wonder about the price that has to be paid for economic reforms.
      After declaring bankruptcy, the state tried to save the shipyard, either taking it under its control or selling it to new owners - for a while it was even the Ukrainian oligarch Serhiy Taruta. Currently, the shipyard employs about 2 thousand people (about ten times less than in the early 1980s). The economic situation of the enterprise is unstable.


      We and ourselves have broken no less. So we say that for 20 years we have been quietly trying to restore what we destroyed in the 90s. Instead of shouting at the whole world with the Polish ambition that since the 90th, together with the "triumphant tread of democracy", we have been developing inexorably both upward and in breadth ...
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 1 February 2021 11: 31
        +4
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        It was us, the USSR, who built their economy from 1945 to 1985.

        But this is the correct answer ..
    3. onstar9
      onstar9 2 February 2021 21: 07
      -2
      Quote: mat-vey
      "And I understand everything. Denmark's GDP per capita in 2019 is $ 53880, Poland's GDP is $ 33890. We have been building our economy since 1990, and they have been building since 1945." - well, yes, but until 1990 we only lived on handouts ..

      And how much is Russia's GDP per capita? More than the Poles?
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 3 February 2021 04: 21
        0
        Quote: onstar9
        And how much is Russia's GDP per capita? More than the Poles?

        For what purpose are you interested? Do you want to buy an airplane?
        1. onstar9
          onstar9 3 February 2021 04: 26
          -1
          Quote: mat-vey
          For what purpose are you interested? Do you want to buy an airplane?

          Yes, you really "let down" the Poles ... You are spitting them ... China, by the way, has a GDP per capita less than in Russia, but they, in spite of this, can also "spank" Russia .. It does not seem is it unfair to you?
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 3 February 2021 04: 34
            0
            Quote: onstar9
            Yes, you have completely "omitted" the Poles.

            Where? When? Did you bother to read the branch?
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 1 February 2021 09: 09
    +2
    They'll have capitalist scrap metal someday smile
  • Siberian54
    Siberian54 1 February 2021 09: 09
    +2
    Who will let them buy military equipment from official probable opponent? Here are the grapes and green!
  • loki565
    loki565 1 February 2021 09: 10
    -2
    As if the F-35 is bought by vassals from NATO, there is no particular choice either F-35 or sanctions)))
  • rocket757
    rocket757 1 February 2021 09: 10
    +2
    Is it worth listening to those who will not be able to do anything of the kind, even in the distant future?
  • Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 1 February 2021 09: 11
    +6
    For America, Poland is just meat, which they are trying to drive to Kaliningrad and make hostages of their INF system disguised as missile defense. However, the Yankees and Anglo-Saxons have such an attitude towards all Slavic countries.
    That's all.
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 1 February 2021 09: 59
      +4
      I agree with you and want to add. The Poles, throughout their history, were the meat of Europe. Moreover, their eternal arrogance and arrogance also destroyed the state from within. It's like a cute but stupid girl. Everyone uses it. They promise to marry, but do not marry. (I stated this very correctly))
      1. Al_lexx
        Al_lexx 1 February 2021 10: 06
        0
        The legs of Polish arrogance and arrogance grow from Rome. It was Rome that made these Slavs what they are now. Baptized into Orthodoxy, everything would be different.
        In this sense, nothing has changed. The names of puppeteers have changed, but the essence is still the same as a thousand years ago - to destroy the Slavic world and destroy the idea of ​​Pan-Slavism.
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 1 February 2021 10: 36
          +3
          Really. And in the end, they destroy themselves. What can I say, even if Pototsky ran around in lovers and haluyas with Catherine the Great. True, she had lovers and others - Potemkin, Orlov. But these are lumps! Statesmen. And Pototsky is just a call boy ...
    2. Rufat
      Rufat 1 February 2021 10: 07
      -3
      We must deliver a pre-emptive nuclear strike
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 1 February 2021 09: 18
    +1
    The truth is:
    1. Heavy fighters generally do not trade well.
    2. We no longer have the Warsaw Pact, China does not yet ...
    3. But China is successfully selling FT 17, with the technology of the "big" brothers.
    4. Serial production of Su57 for itself has not yet been established.
    1. Aleksandr1971
      Aleksandr1971 1 February 2021 09: 42
      -1
      Only the arms of the country that has its own, backed by force market for buyers of satellites - subordinate, non-independent allies - is being successfully sold.

      The United States has such satellites. The USSR had satellites. And Russia doesn't have them. Accordingly, there are no guaranteed buyers of weapons.

      The Poles have no actual (non-legal) right to recoup weapons, except with the consent of the United States or directly from the United States. So Russia with its weapons will not enter the Polish market until it is able to change the power in Poland in its favor. But this will require either a victorious war, or a well-designed coup in Poland.

      But our special services (due to the fact that their brains and hands are growing from another place) are not capable of this.
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 1 February 2021 09: 58
        -4
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        But our special services (due to the fact that their brains and hands are growing from another place) are not capable of this.

        What criteria do you use to assess the efficiency of the work of special services? By the number of coups in the right direction?
        However, I guess that you will answer: they missed Ukraine, Georgia, etc., but it was necessary to grow pro-Russian, etc.
        Yes, analytics ... Where are our special services, with their hands and places, up to you, the all-perceiving.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 February 2021 10: 07
          +4
          Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
          However, I guess that you will answer: they missed Ukraine, Georgia, etc., but it was necessary to grow pro-Russian, etc.
          Yeah, analytics ...

          I would be very interested to hear your interpretation of these events. I do not argue that, perhaps, these failures should be attributed to the failures of our foreign policy, maybe diplomacy, and that the special services simply did not receive the necessary orders (you cannot ask for work that was not instructed to do).
          1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
            Sidor Amenpodestovich 1 February 2021 10: 20
            -3
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            I would be very interested to hear your interpretation of these events.

            Excuse me
            It is likely that ours give the opportunity to go crazy. Get enough of independence, protests, revolutions and so on. So that on your own skin you can fully experience all the delights of Maidan visa-free associations, and with their influence on the economy and territorial integrity. So that their vivid example was both different, and by themselves a science.
            It takes a lot of time, but it is incomparably less risky and costly.
            A deliberate game for a long time. Waiting for the change of centrifugal forces to centripetal.
            Are you in a hurry somewhere? But after all, no one expects that everything will be easy and natural? Or how?
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 February 2021 10: 43
              +5
              Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
              A deliberate game for a long time. Waiting for the change of centrifugal forces to centripetal.

              I would agree with you, but point-blank I do not see how, with such a policy, the vector will change from centrifugal to centripetal. As a result of such non-intervention in Ukraine, for example, we will get an embittered and impoverished state on our border, in which the level of pro-Russian sentiments fell below the low level, but which at the very least have adapted to survive on their own. At the expense of what such a state will suddenly reach out to us - it is somehow unclear.
              1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
                Sidor Amenpodestovich 1 February 2021 10: 54
                -2
                In general, you asked, I answered. I suppose that the option I described did not occur to you before. You can use it as a starting point and imagine how Russia could benefit from all this.
                But most likely you won't. Enjoying failure on all fronts is both more familiar and easier.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 February 2021 11: 19
                  +3
                  Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  In general, you asked, I answered.

                  Who can argue, they answered, thanks.
                  Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  I suppose that the option I described did not occur to you before.

                  Why didn't you come? He came. However, after thinking it over, I dismissed this option as fundamentally wrong.
                  Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  You can use it as a starting point and imagine how Russia could benefit from all of this.

                  No way. Instead of bringing Ukraine into the CU, we allow a coup d'etat to happen, take Crimea by force (which was absolutely correct, but clearly did not add good relations with the Ukrainians), and now we also support the civil war in Ukraine ...
                  One could fantasize that it is Donbass that will become the embryo of "a real, pro-Russian Ukraine", but looking at what kind of mess there is in management now - no, it doesn't happen that way. Then there would be a strong government that would ensure good development for the "rebellious" region.
                  The economies of the Russian Federation and Ukraine suffer significant losses as a result of the collapse of old economic ties. There won't be much sense for us to revive them in the future. There is no reason to invest in import substitution of Ukrainian products today in order to start buying them again tomorrow.
                  The further the population of Ukraine, the more it will isolate itself from us.
                  Quote: Sidor Amenpodestovich
                  But most likely you won't. Enjoying failure on all fronts is both more familiar and easier.

                  Yes, in order to see the positive in what is happening, all my many years of experience in alternative history is not enough :)))))))
          2. Leon68
            Leon68 1 February 2021 19: 04
            0
            Perhaps it is worth recalling that, according to the agreements, the special services of the CIS countries did not work in the post-Soviet space, including the Russian ones. In support of your words:
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            the special services simply did not receive the necessary orders (you cannot ask for work that was not assigned to do)
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 1 February 2021 10: 34
        -1
        And even satellites are sold cars like F16 and Mig29 ...... F35. We do not have such yet ...
      3. onstar9
        onstar9 2 February 2021 21: 15
        -2
        Quote: Aleksandr1971
        Only the arms of the country that has its own, backed by force market for buyers of satellites - subordinate, non-independent allies - is being successfully sold.

        The United States has such satellites. The USSR had satellites. And Russia doesn't have them. Accordingly, there are no guaranteed buyers of weapons.

        The Poles have no actual (non-legal) right to recoup weapons, except with the consent of the United States or directly from the United States. So Russia with its weapons will not enter the Polish market until it is able to change the power in Poland in its favor. But this will require either a victorious war, or a well-designed coup in Poland.

        You, comrade, have some kind of "animal" psychology. What are you living for? To "have everyone on Earth as satellites" or simply "have everyone"? Let ordinary people on the planet just live in the world, without "capturing" and turning everyone into slaves ... Psychology of dictators - to capture everyone or "soak" ...
  • APASUS
    APASUS 1 February 2021 09: 19
    +3
    Poland buys $ 33 billion worth of communist "shit" from China and sells $ 2,5-3 billion worth of goods to China.
    And why would all this communist "shit" be so popular in proud Poland? Megalomania presses on the brain
    1. da Vinci
      da Vinci 1 February 2021 09: 39
      0
      Duc the megalomania of the Poles did not pass, she was only beaten under the bench, but she quietly whined, snapped and waited for the owner to come out to make shit.
  • Sandor Clegane
    Sandor Clegane 1 February 2021 09: 23
    +2
    commenting on the post of the Polish "mikhan"))))
  • Reviews
    Reviews 1 February 2021 09: 29
    0
    Su-57 (...) communist scrap metal

    And they say that the victims are unscientific fiction ...
    1. Pereira
      Pereira 1 February 2021 09: 53
      0
      This is not fiction.
      Then one evening, in the dark already, a person with a bright face came across on the road. In chain mail, with a sword. He asked with some old-fashioned reprimand about the dragon lair.
      What am I? I waved my hand towards the city headquarters of United Russia.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 1 February 2021 09: 32
    +1
    Quote: Aerodrome
    among the Poles, definitely a deformation of consciousness ... there are no communists for about 30 years ... "democrats" and "liberasts" alone ... some have everything, others have not been given enough ... that's all the fuss. and the people look at old Kirkorov and Malakhov and go crazy ... well ... what they deserve ...


    This deformation is called an inferiority complex. After all, the Poles themselves cannot create a nicherta, an acre of Aginsky's Polonaise.

    Once upon a time, the Poles dreamed that they would be able to conquer and colonize their brothers - the Russians, as Cortes once conquered the Aztecs. But fantasize to yourself that Cortez was defeated by the Aztecs. And that instead, the Aztecs themselves conquered and colonized Spain for two hundred years.

    It's the same with the Poles, who were slaves to their neighbors from 1791 to 1991.
  • Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 1 February 2021 09: 34
    -2
    And why did the Poles decide that the SU-57 is more expensive than the FU-35 !? As far as I know, ours is half the price.
  • fighter angel
    fighter angel 1 February 2021 09: 36
    -2
    This lsegg has scrap metal in his brain.
    Who is he anyway? Nobody can be called! That is why there is nothing to explain and justify to this "nobody"! And there is nothing to publish his "vyserki" either.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 1 February 2021 09: 36
    +1
    Quote: marchcat
    Poles are like capricious children left without a "toy".


    Poles are a people without a future. And they know it. The destiny of the Poles is to be assimilated by their neighbors. There used to be a chance to be assimilated by the Russians. And now the Germans. In the medium term. Once upon a time, the Poles themselves hoped to become an assimilating people. But it didn't burn out.

    Here is the Poles and grieves from understanding such a past and such a perspective.
    1. pytar
      pytar 1 February 2021 09: 57
      -8
      Poles are a people without a future. And they know it.

      Poland arose in 960 AD. Her story knows greatness and falls. Despite all the terrible tragedies and disasters, Poles have been, are and will be! These people have been hardened in the struggle for survival, they have created a magnificent culture!
      The destiny of the Poles is to be assimilated by their neighbors. There used to be a chance to be assimilated by the Russians. And now the Germans.

      You are not the Lord to determine the fate of nations! Neither the Russians nor the Germans today have an assimilation potential to assimilate the Poles. The Germans and Russians themselves are in danger of being assimilated by newcomers.
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 1 February 2021 10: 34
        -1
        Why did I remember the song - but he did, he hoped and believed ...
        1. pytar
          pytar 1 February 2021 12: 56
          -1
          Why did I remember the song - but he did, he hoped and believed ...

          And I remembered one Polish song - We are SLAVS!

          We Slavs know how ours works for us
          We know how to move what mom gave in genes
          It's hot blood
          This is our Slavic call
          We Slavs Know How To Use Body Language
          we know how to move what mom gave in genes
          This is Slavic blood
          This beauty and grace

          We have what no one else has
          We value this natural shape
          Vodka is better than whiskey and gins
          Best with us, whatever you want
          Here, made with homemade sour cream
          Delicate ruddy bread
          There is no better than our Slavs
          The one who saw and tried to find out

          We Slavs know how ours works for us
          We know how to move what mom gave in genes
          It's hot blood
          This is our Slavic call
          We Slavs Know How To Use Body Language
          we know how to move what mom gave in genes
          This is Slavic blood
          This beauty and grace

          What is our best because it is ours
          You know our best is ours.
          What is our best because it is ours
          our best is ours, you know that.

          In our genes we have what no one else has
          they come to us from many parts of the world
          Good vodka and good girls are here
          Look for the perfect wives with us
          And our ladies have no complexes
          because they have no reason to have them
          and there is no subtext in the music video
          If you don't believe go to the countryside

          We Slavs know how ours works for us
          We know how to move what mom gave in genes
          It's hot blood
          This is our Slavic call
          We Slavs Know How To Use Body Language
          we know how to move what mom gave in genes
          This is Slavic blood
          This beauty and grace

          We know how, mmm we know jaaak ooo oo We know how! :))
          1. Dodikson
            Dodikson 1 February 2021 13: 34
            -2
            Poles, alas, are no longer Slavs. now they are Catholic.
            but when the Sun was God we were one people with them.
            as well as with the Germans (eastern)
            1. pytar
              pytar 1 February 2021 16: 03
              +2
              Poles, alas, are no longer Slavs. now they are Catholic. but when the Sun was God we were one people with them.

              Well then, according to your version, and the Orthodox are not Slavs! Nobody professes ezism for a long time. laughing
              1. Dodikson
                Dodikson 1 February 2021 21: 00
                -2
                the spirit of Slavism remained in Orthodoxy. in Catholicism, alas, no. for Catholicism was created to destroy the Vedic world.
                1. pytar
                  pytar 1 February 2021 22: 05
                  0
                  Christianity, as a monotheistic religion, is initially antagonistic to all polytheistic religions. It denies polytheism, considers ego paganism, part of devilry. Fights him with fire and swords! It is interesting how the monotheistic religion that arose in Judaea with the so-called "Vedic world" ?! Christianity is divided into Western / Catholicism / and Eastern / Orthodoxy / in 1054, the Slavic peoples known at that time adopted Christianity before the split. The facts are strongly at variance with your theory Dodik ... yes
                  1. Dodikson
                    Dodikson 1 February 2021 22: 30
                    -1
                    let you not tell me about religions that I know many times better than you.
                    I read both the Pentateuch, the New Testament, and the Apocrypha, I read the Vedas, Upanishads, Mahabharata, Bhagavad Gita, Avesta and Shahnameh, both Eddas, the Pigeon Book, Veles's book, Songs of the Gamayun bird, all Irish mythology, tales from Latin America to Tibetan , I am already silent about the Russians, it doesn't even count.
                    and how religions differ, I can tell you worse than you, because you hardly know how Catholicism differs from Orthodoxy and how Shiites differ from Sunnis.
                    and I can even tell you how Vishnu religions differ from Shaivist religions (some write - Shaivistic ones). and what is the difference between Tibetan Buddhism and Bon Po.
                    and therefore I am aware that before all of Europe had a single culture and faith, which was destroyed by the Gauls (Gauls instrument) and finished off by the Vatican.
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 1 February 2021 22: 42
                      +1
                      Truly I refuse to argue with such a specialist! I didn't even have time to finish reading your entire list! But even after reading 100000 times more books, neither you nor anyone else has the right to determine for the Nations and for the people what they are, what are considered! If I am considered a Slav, then I am a Slav! And if you want to be considered a mutbarabhavat. Your right. yes
          2. nsm1
            nsm1 1 February 2021 22: 30
            -2
            Ugh - "body language", "vodka", they sell women - some kind of crap, bestiality ...
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 1 February 2021 11: 24
        +1
        The destinies of nations are no longer determined by the gods. So people can talk about this too.
        As for the assimilation of the Poles, this is certainly too much. But it is easy to degenerate. Together with the entire white race. In a single deevolutionary impulse.
        1. pytar
          pytar 1 February 2021 12: 12
          -1
          Yes! good They said everything for sure! hi
    2. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 19: 05
      +1
      Are you racist? Whatever the Poles and specifically the individual marginal from whose opinion they decided to make an article, your face is only your face.
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 1 February 2021 09: 52
    +3
    Are the "eternal halui of Europe" discussing aircraft construction? .. Interesting. They would have to speculate about apple harvests. This is the only thing they are specialists in.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 1 February 2021 10: 35
      +3
      not really, they have a very developed school of training kaklov, they have experience in this for several centuries. only the Naglo-Saxons have more experience in training any Judas
      1. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 1 February 2021 10: 41
        +2
        Sorry, sorry. I forgot. Yes, and they loved Ukrainians, even the word "would .... lo" for them came up with.
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 1 February 2021 11: 26
        +3
        The Germans trained the Balts well. The trainers are long gone, and the animals still jump through the burning hoop.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 1 February 2021 09: 55
    +3
    For some reason, the Poles are silent that it was they who specialized in "communist scrap metal", mainly producing old and very old developments of the USSR. For example, they produced the An-2 without developing it in any way, unlike the Czechs, who made their own and very good planes.
    So, in the place of the Poles, it would be worth keeping silent about modern technology.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 1 February 2021 10: 04
      +1
      Quote: yehat2
      For some reason, the Poles are silent that it was they who specialized in "communist scrap metal", mainly producing old and very old developments of the USSR. For example, they produced the An-2 without developing it in any way, unlike the Czechs, who made their own and very good planes.

      It was not the NDP who decided this, but the CMEA. Czechoslovakia was given development, due to the fact that they were initially more high-tech than Poland. And in the NDP they gave our new and not very new developments only for production: An-2, An-28, Mi-2, MiG-15, -17 ... But PZL also had their own independent developments: Iskra and " Wilga, for example.
      But the Poles built a lot of their designs for our fleet.
      1. Dodikson
        Dodikson 1 February 2021 10: 36
        0
        and what can they build from ships now?
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 1 February 2021 10: 54
          +1
          A series of strikes and incidents at Polish shipyards is a separate and long story.
          Especially in communist Poland due to the fact that the management of the shipyards decided to work in the old fashioned way.
    2. pytar
      pytar 1 February 2021 12: 17
      -1
      Poles for some reason they are silentthat it was they who specialized in ...

      Why did you decide that they were silent? laughing Judge by the ru-net where only what propagandists need is selected? wink Do you read Polish media, look? Opinions in Polsha are diverse, they touch on all topics, often very critical! They are not afraid to criticize the authorities! And the power, not the kings who live in heaven!
  • A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 1 February 2021 09: 57
    +6
    In the comments to the publication on the pages of the Polish military-thematic resource Defense24, misunderstanding is expressed

    A new type of journalistic activity: the publication of specially selected comments from thematic resources. wassat
    In general, the idea is great. If you start to publish comments from VO in the states, then Americans will turn gray. lol
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 February 2021 10: 09
      +1
      Quote: A. Privalov
      If you start to publish comments from VO in the states, then Americans will turn gray.

      laughing good
    2. Pereira
      Pereira 1 February 2021 11: 27
      +3
      Those in the CIA who read VO on duty are likely to receive milk for harm.
    3. pytar
      pytar 1 February 2021 12: 22
      +2
      A new type of journalistic activity: the publication of specially selected comments from thematic resources. In general, the idea is great. If you start to publish comments from VO in the states, then Americans will turn gray.

      laughing good In fact, this is not a new propaganda trick! There is a huge amount of publications in the modern info-world, on all sorts of topics! Opinions are completely different! You can always dig up something like that, and it is not difficult to find the appropriate comments for the purpose! Copy-paste, and then we scold! Or we praise, depending on what instructions were given! laughing
    4. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 19: 31
      -1
      Especially if you count all the comments zhahnut Topol or make the strait Poseidon.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 1 February 2021 10: 03
    +1
    Quote: Svetlana
    these are our fathers and grandfathers.
    They lost power

    you are very much mistaken.
    The main reason for Khrushchev's reaction, which perverted the idea of ​​socialism, was that more than 90% of those who not only knew the word communism, but could explain what it meant, were stupidly killed in the war.
    And from the war came naive, mostly poorly educated people, ready to fight for all good against all bad, by inertia used the slogans of the communists, but did not have a notion of what it was and that is why gradually the party nomenclature (most of whom were never convinced communists) very much moved away from the ideas of equality and social justice, which destroyed the country.
    And our fathers and grandfathers lost power not in the 90s, but much earlier. If you still do not understand this, let me remind you of the referendum on the preservation of the USSR. Everywhere the population voted for preservation. Did anyone listen to him?
  • pytar
    pytar 1 February 2021 10: 04
    -2
    Many megapatriotic forum users believe that the F-35 is selling well all over the world because "US sells egos to its vassals"... Such an opinion soothes the soul of a patriot, it is close to ego concepts. Of course, political influence is of great importance in arms sales, but the F-35 is probably not bad at all ... there is no more modern car on the markets in the world now! bully
    1. Ru_Na
      Ru_Na 1 February 2021 10: 27
      +5
      Well, yes, the F35 is so good that only 35% of the aircraft of this type of the US Air Force are combat-ready.
      1. pytar
        pytar 1 February 2021 11: 32
        -3
        Well, yes, the F35 is so good that only 35% of the aircraft of this type of the US Air Force are combat-ready.

        Let's hope that the Su-57's combat readiness will reach 57%! laughing
      2. ironic
        ironic 1 February 2021 19: 36
        -1
        Well, why spread this inscription on the fence? Partially combat-ready for 70%. This figure would include about 50% of those fully operational. Most of the non-ready are in the B and C versions.
    2. Dodikson
      Dodikson 1 February 2021 10: 40
      -2
      what the Fu-35 really costs can be seen from the American exercises where he blew the F-16, and only in the DVB did the Penguin beat Falcon. and yes, in DVB he won by stealth.
      this is his bet, and now what will happen to stealth with the release of ROFAR?
      and it is already being partially tested (the demonstrator was tested in 2019, full-fledged tests in 2025, and in series in 2027-2030), and then what should the Penguin do with his flying iron maneuverability?
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 1 February 2021 10: 14
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Poles are a people without a future. And they know it.

    Poland arose in 960 AD. Her story knows greatness and falls. Despite all the terrible tragedies and disasters, Poles have been, are and will be! These people have been hardened in the struggle for survival, they have created a magnificent culture!
    The destiny of the Poles is to be assimilated by their neighbors. There used to be a chance to be assimilated by the Russians. And now the Germans.

    You are not the Lord to determine the fate of nations! Neither the Russians nor the Germans today have an assimilation potential to assimilate the Poles. The Germans and Russians themselves are in danger of being assimilated by newcomers.


    I respect you, pytar, as the author of good articles on this site. But I am sure that every phenomenon has a beginning and an end. Including the nations.

    A very small number of the largest and most cultured nations will reach the moment of uniting all people into a single civilization, a maximum of 10-5, out of the several thousand nations and nationalities currently available. And there will be no Poles among these 10-16 nations.
    1. pytar
      pytar 1 February 2021 11: 09
      +1
      I respect you, pytar, as the author of good articles on this site.

      Dear Alexander hi , I ask you not to take offense at my harsh statement. I wish no one harm, least of all one of the Slavic peoples. If you listen to Polish speech, you will be surprised how close it is to Russian! Slavic languages ​​are melodic like songs! And Slavs are the most beautiful women on Earth! Historical twists and turns, conflicts, politics, create a negative information background, and the Slavic peoples are very similar to each other!
      But I am sure that every phenomenon has a beginning and an end. Including the nations. A very small number of the largest and most cultured nations will reach the moment of uniting all people into a single civilization, a maximum of 10-5, out of the several thousand nations and nationalities currently available. And there will be no Poles among these 10-16 nations.

      In fact, you are right! I can't argue with the facts. But there is such a fact that the largest nations disappeared and created giant empires and world culture! At the same time, there are the oldest small nations that have survived to this day. Apparently there is some kind of specific feature that helps in survival!
      I will allow myself one "lyrical deviation"! bully Vanga on this occasion says that the peoples have a star in the sky. However, not all. Some have only a planet. These will disappear and disappear into history. And this is not related to their number. About my people, she says that he has a whole constellation! I don't know if it is so, but I want to believe! yes
  • bbss
    bbss 1 February 2021 10: 15
    +1
    What else is left for them? Just stand in line.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 1 February 2021 10: 15
    +1
    "And nobody wants to buy the communist scrap metal Su-57 and J-20"
    Liked the answer to this post. To this I would like to add the following - and Poland still does not even have its own "nationalist scrap metal", but on the other hand, it has not changed its habit of licking the fifth point of the strong (by its definition). How much hatred this Polish-American schoolboy has.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 1 February 2021 10: 16
    +1
    Quote: Avis
    Quote: yehat2
    For some reason, the Poles are silent that it was they who specialized in "communist scrap metal", mainly producing old and very old developments of the USSR. For example, they produced the An-2 without developing it in any way, unlike the Czechs, who made their own and very good planes.

    It was not the NDP who decided this, but the CMEA. Czechoslovakia was given development, due to the fact that they were initially more high-tech than Poland. And in the NDP they gave our new and not very new developments only for production: An-2, An-28, Mi-2, MiG-15, -17 ... But PZL also had their own independent developments: Iskra and " Wilga, for example.
    But the Poles built a lot of their designs for our fleet.

    I don’t argue that the Poles have done a lot for the navy, but I don’t dare call it advanced technologies. On the other hand, after 50 years in the CMEA it is somehow strange to complain that the Czechs were initially more technologically advanced. For example, who prevented the modernization of the An-2 along with the cessna one? But no, the Poles continued to make a plane with a la-5 engine.
    As a result, now the An-2 has almost ceased to fly due to problems with fuel consumption and outdated aerodynamics.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 1 February 2021 11: 46
      0
      Quote: yehat2
      [50 years later in the CMEA it is somehow strange to complain that the Czechs were initially more technologically advanced.

      I didn't mention those times.
      For some reason, the Poles are silent that it is they who specializewere leaked on the "communist scrap metal", producing mainly old and very old developments of the USSR. For example, An-2 they releasewhether not developing in any way, unlike the Czechs, whowhether their own and very good planes.

      ... not modern ones. In the light of what you said, I answered.

      For example, who prevented the modernization of the An-2 along with the cessna one?

      For example, the fact that they weren't developers. They were given only factory documentation, and not the right to change something. However, they completely modernized the An-28 and Mi-2 (M-28 "Bryza" and V-3 "Sokol").

      But no, the Poles continued to make a plane with a la-5 engine.

      From Li-2. "From La-5" was the engine on the Il-12.

      As a result, now the An-2 has almost ceased to fly due to problems with fuel consumption and outdated aerodynamics.

      This is a KB problem, not a PZL problem.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 1 February 2021 10: 23
    -3
    [quote = Sidor Amenpodestovich] [quote = Alexander1971] Where are our special services, with their hands and places, up to you, all-perceiving. [/ quote]

    I do not pretend to be the most perceptive. My heart aches at the sight of how stupidly our special services work. Indeed, not a single good coup d'etat has been tripled. But they got into a puddle of cocaine on a presidential plane in Buenos Aires, flew in Montenegro. The murder of Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev was awkwardly organized. And the failures in Salisbury and Berlin?
    There may be a large number of successful special operations that the public is not aware of. Rare successes are known, such as Basayev's poisoning. But on the other hand, the public knows that among the anti-Russian states there has not been even one successful conspiracy. And at the same time, the United States only planes state coups. Here's someone to take an example from.
    I will assume that in our special services they either prepare poorly, or there are poor students and downright careerists, or the service to the Fatherland in the special services has degenerated into rotten commerce. And there may be all of the above taken together.
    1. Volder
      Volder 1 February 2021 11: 16
      +2
      Quote: Aleksandr1971
      ... how stupid our intelligence services are. But they got into a puddle of cocaine on a presidential plane in Buenos Aires, flew in Montenegro. The murder of Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev was awkwardly organized. And the failures in Salisbury and Berlin?
      There is no reliable evidence that the Russian special services are involved here. Moreover, the possibility of a setup is not excluded, so that everyone thinks of Russia. Recently, the West has made no secret of the fact that it is actively interfering in the internal affairs of the Russian Federation.
  • Ru_Na
    Ru_Na 1 February 2021 10: 24
    +2
    If the pshek do not like the Soviet legacy so much, then let it be dekkominiziruyutsya as their Ukrainian slaves, let's see what then remains and what will work in Poland!
  • Alien From
    Alien From 1 February 2021 10: 26
    +2
    Only rich gentlemen can be the first to buy cool equipment, while secretly continuing to clean the toilets to their vows to their burgher friends ...
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 1 February 2021 10: 33
    +2
    The Anglo-Saxon Six can wait - you don't need a lot of money to incite them to Russia, the main thing is to stir up the Great Poland chauvinism of the puppets ruling in Poland. And since the puppet has no money to buy amerskoy scrap metal, it will cost the old Soviet "scrap metal". Cannon fodder cheap. soldier
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 1 February 2021 11: 00
    +2
    BU ha ha ... and what does POLAND produce?)))) But NOTHING ... so that the show-off is twisting))) and so the question)) what can they do))? nothing too ... they would produce screw ... but who would give them)))
  • Volder
    Volder 1 February 2021 11: 08
    +4
    And what about the foreign sales of the Su-57 and J-20? Still zero orders?
    Some Poles are striking in their lack of information and laziness to be interested in the topic they are commenting on. The Russian Su-57 is not on the international market because there are no export offers from Russia. What sales can we talk about when the first serial Su-57 just entered the Russian troops? Poles wonder why we have not sold a single Su-57 over the past years. Let them ask the Chinese ...
  • arhPavel
    arhPavel 1 February 2021 11: 24
    +3
    It would be funny if it was not so sad.
    Propaganda eats away at the brain, of course, it works both ways, and will greatly influence the decisions made already in the second generation of politicians. And the same Polish authorities simply will not be able to objectively perceive reality.
  • Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 1 February 2021 11: 33
    +3
    And nobody wants to buy the communist scrap metal Su-57 and J-20


    Satisfied with the hysteria of the Polish limitrophes)))
    The owner does not give the Poles an expensive American toy in the clumsy Polish paws laughing
  • yehat2
    yehat2 1 February 2021 11: 55
    +3
    I wonder where the Poles got the idea that the Chinese in the next 10 years will generally sell j-20 to someone? Little is known about him that is reliable, but according to the Chinese, he claims to be global leadership in his niche, and given the complete absence of allies, to share this with China with whom?
    With Pakistan? Or with North Korea?
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 19: 00
      0
      Not Poles, but judging by the article, one marginal.
  • Viktor Sergeev
    Viktor Sergeev 1 February 2021 12: 11
    +1
    The slave buys only that shit that the master offers.
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 19: 01
      0
      This Polish marginal thinks exactly like you, only on the other side of the barricade.
      1. Viktor Sergeev
        Viktor Sergeev 1 February 2021 19: 17
        -1
        No, he does not think so, since Russia is giving its planes. He thinks like this: everyone is poor, except for my master.
  • Herman 4223
    Herman 4223 1 February 2021 12: 45
    0
    Maybe that's why they don't buy because they don't sell yet? Chinese fighters of other models are quite sold out. Migi and drying too.
  • Vadim Ananyin
    Vadim Ananyin 1 February 2021 13: 01
    0
    In Poland, of course, there are smart people who understand what the reason is, but here, basically, the same toad strangles. Nothing more and they will not be on an equal footing with Denmark, Belgium and the whole west. Six is ​​nothing more. So it rushes them into all the cracks.
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 1 February 2021 13: 43
    +1
    Pusi better look who fucking takes, practically not one country all the colonies of fascington.
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 18: 58
      0
      Would he have answered that Su is being taken by the Russian colonies? And where is the point in such an exchange of poop?
  • iouris
    iouris 1 February 2021 14: 09
    +2
    Polish readers are not buyers. And while they are building "their own economy", the building of communism with an inhuman face is in full swing in the US: more than 50% of the US population is not needed. And in the rest of the kingdoms all 95% are not needed.
  • andrew42
    andrew42 1 February 2021 15: 26
    +3
    Stupidity from start to finish. - This is the very formulation of the question of the sale of advanced weapons. The same States, if they sell the F-35 to someone, it will be expensive (firstly), on the condition of impossibility of full-fledged use at their own discretion, except in the interests of the "seller" (secondly), with the need to add expensive "components" and "consumables" (third). Even if the Poles "buy" these same F-35s, then in fact they will remain American, but the Poles will pay for them, will bear the costs of operation / repair, and placement / maintenance on their own territory. And so yes, it will be formally "Polish" F-35.
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 18: 56
      0
      What are you now, by and large, from this marginal Pole in your post distinguished yourself? So that they wrote about the same but with the opposite sign? And what is the difference between you then?
  • ppgt90
    ppgt90 1 February 2021 16: 02
    +2
    Well, first of all, Russia has never offered the SU-57 to anyone. Although many countries are interested in purchasing it. The SU-30, SU-34, and SU-35 are sold quite well. Wasted off to interrupt the margin for yourself? And with the F-35, things are far from straightforward. The states simply oblige their "allies", read - vassals, to buy what is said. That's all democracy. Well, if the head of the Pentagon called the F-35 crap, then there really is nothing to add here.
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 18: 55
      0
      Naturally, Russia is a large exporter of weapons, but to reprint stories that all Westerners are being raped by the 35th rectally is at least as stupid as to write about all Russian and Chinese planes "communist scrap metal".
  • 123456789
    123456789 1 February 2021 17: 01
    0
    Country Russia USA
    Manufacturer Sukhoi Design Bureau Lockheed Martin
    Name T-50 F-35
    Modification of the T-50 PAK FA F-35 Lightning II
    Start of production (year) 2010 2000
    Length (m) 22.00 15.67
    Height (m) 5.30 4.33
    Wingspan (m) 16.50 10.70
    Empty weight (kg.) 18 500
    Maximum takeoff weight (kg.) 35 000 31 800
    Maximum flight range (km) 4 400
    Maximum flight speed (km / h) 2 500 2 065
    Cruising speed (km / h) 1 800 -
    Service ceiling (m) 20 000
    Powerplant 2 TRDDF Saturn "product 117C" 1 x TRDDF Pratt Whitney F135
    Engine power 14 500 178
    Crew (people) 1 1
    weaponry
    dual 30 mm cannon,

    rocket armament on 14 suspension points

    20 mm six-barreled cannon (optional),

    combat load - 5000 kg,

    in stealth mode - 2x 450-kg bombs and 2 air-to-air missiles AIM-120C AMRAAMS. In overload - 2x 900-kg bombs and 4 SD in 2 weapon bays

    Produced (units) 17 174

    More details at: https://avia.pro/sravnenie/voennue-samoletu/result
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 1 February 2021 18: 01
    +1
    Bulgaria paid $ 1,25 billion for 8 F-16s. 156 million dollars for one plane.
    In addition, the money has already been transferred, and these wunder fighters will reach us no earlier than 2023.
    As for the Su-57 and Zh-20, no one offered them for sale, just as the US does not sell the F-22.
    1. ironic
      ironic 1 February 2021 18: 52
      0
      It is not over one plane. Do not mislead people.
  • lukewarm
    lukewarm 1 February 2021 18: 19
    +1
    "Scrap metal" has no ideology, the Poles are not. He's scared to say whether he doesn't care whether he is communist or capitalist. Moreover, in the Russian Federation, nominally 30 years in power (and in fact, maybe 40) are not communists at all. Instead of brown splashes on the walls, they would have thought better, but why do the proud gentry still have their own at least such scrap metal? I even feel sorry for them: with such ambitions and all the time running errands for someone: either the SSR, or the USA ...
  • Growlers
    Growlers 1 February 2021 18: 39
    +1
    Poles are a kind of a nation, they behave like officials and ordinary people, as if Poland is a great power. Although in fact Poland is sitting on subsidies from the European Union and US handouts. Accordingly, the opinion of this country does not interest anyone in principle. EU officials are surprised at the obstinacy of the Poles, because they contain them, and Poland is behaving ... read above
  • ironic
    ironic 1 February 2021 18: 52
    +1
    It is stupid to consider all Russian aircraft as scrap metal, all the more stupid to consider it communist, to pay attention to marginal statements is also stupid, but here we have a whole topic ...
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 1 February 2021 19: 22
    +2
    Poles in their repertoire. If only to wrap it up. So let's get real. What we have in the series. F-22 is. It will be modified, but no new ones are being made yet. Since it is not necessary. So far, in such quantities, no one in the world has anything like it. Maybe Rafale is more maneuverable, only the F-22 must first be found and entered into close combat with him. And this is very difficult. On the radar, detecting the F-22 is even more difficult than detecting the F-35. And do not say that they say F117 was found and shot down. F117 and F22 are completely different technologies. EMNIP our mines of defense have forbidden to export it at all. Even to Israel. F22 is sharpened for air combat (remember this). F-35. The United States exports it. But he is not sharpened for air combat. The fact that he was called "F" does not mean anything. This is a stormtrooper, interdictor. F105 was also "F" - Fighter, but it was precisely a fighter, bomber, striker. Meet F35 with Rafal or J10 in close combat, he has little chance. Although they say manners have improved recently. Does the SU-57 series. No. How many were handed over to the troops? EMNIP 3. We will not even compare. There is J20. About which ABSOLUTELY nothing is known except that it is also a STRIKER. There are no performance characteristics on it. There is also no data on the capabilities of his avionics. Only Poles can compare what is in the series and what there is performance characteristics, with what there is no performance characteristics (j20), or with what did not go into a wide series (Su-57). You can compare the Rafal with the F-15, there are performance characteristics for both. You can compare Grippen with J10 - there are performance characteristics for both. But to compare F35 (for which there are performance characteristics) with j20 (for which there are no exact performance characteristics), this is absurd. Comparing F22 (tailored for air combat) with j20 (Drummer) is also absurd. Two absurdities ... But, on the other hand ... these are Poles.
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 2 February 2021 09: 38
      0
      > Is there a SU-57 in the series. No. How many were handed over to the troops? EMNIP 3.
      Which means no, serial production has begun and will continue for many years, with remotorization and modernization. Who will compete with it, except for the serially not produced F-22? That's the same)
  • shinobi
    shinobi 2 February 2021 04: 54
    0
    Wherever you go, there are Polish analytical articles everywhere. And the articles are crazy. How long?
    1. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 2 February 2021 09: 34
      0
      They have a different meaning in the word analysis, especially stubborn, Polish.
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 2 February 2021 09: 33
    0
    Where is the Polish scrap metal? I remember the only thing that they produce is the so-called. "Gusar", a copy of the old-time 100% communist Mi-4. As for the F-35, it remains to wish a strong and independent Poland to spend more on this under-fighter / under-bomber)