Military Review

Byzantine clothing

132
Byzantine clothing
Emperor Justinian I with his retinue brings gifts to the temple. Mosaic of the apse in the church of San Vitale. Mid-XNUMXth century n. e. Ravenna


So the turn came to the clothes of Byzantium - the Third Rome: the last heiress of the culture of Ancient Rome, an empire in which religion dictated the canons of fashion, and fashion helped the triumph of religion ...
The fate of the fallen Byzantium
We don't want to learn
And flatterers of Russia keep saying:
You are the third Rome, you are the third Rome.
... Oh Russia! forget past glory:
The double-headed eagle is afflicted
And yellow children for fun
Given the shreds of your banners.
Resigned to awe and fear
Who could forget the covenant of love ...
And the Third Rome lies in dust
And there shouldn’t be a fourth.

(Panmongolism. 1894 Vladimir Soloviev)

Culture of clothes. We continue the topic stories clothes. And today we have finally Byzantium, which had a huge impact on the civilization of our ancestors, gave us its religion and culture and ... sunk into oblivion, as if it never existed at all.

Kingdom between West and East. In theory, it was supposed to absorb all the best, both on the one hand and on the other. But it remained "by itself" and then perished, despite all its wealth and high culture. However, the question of why this happened is beyond the scope of our topic. Today our story is devoted to the clothes of the Byzantines and their appearance, which many of our legendary princes had to admire.

So, what were the traditional clothes of Byzantium, which fully inherited the traditions of Roman culture after 476?


Empress Theodora with her retinue. Mosaic of the apse in the church of San Vitale. Mid-XNUMXth century n. e. Ravenna

Traditional clothing


And it so happened that the Byzantines' Roman clothes were soon supplemented by luxurious oriental motifs in decoration patterns, designs, in a variety of colors and in shiny fabrics. Although, we note that the decoration necessarily contains Christian symbols, patterns, and ornaments.

Luxurious varied finishes began to cover the entire surface of clothing. And besides, it should be supplemented with pearls and precious stones sewn onto it. Interestingly, the arrangement of the trim was dictated by the fashion for straight vertical and horizontal lines, which gave the impression of the rigidity of the whole suit.


Dalmatic finishes. Figure: from the edition “World history of costume. Fashions and styles. Minsk: Harvest, 2009, p. 40.


Principles of cutting and finishing a tunic. In the same place

Why it was so is understandable.

The clothing culture of Byzantium, like its entire culture, was strongly influenced by the church. And she in Byzantium declared human nature to be sinful, and any beauty called to serve God! The most beautiful, naturally, were the lines of the divine cross. And, accordingly, it was the cruciform arrangement of the pattern lines that began to be considered the standard of all clothing.


Equipment of the warriors of the Eastern Roman Empire III - VI centuries: 1 - infantryman of the "Legion of Hercules". On the head is a characteristic casis helmet, 2 is a crossbowman with a solinarion in a Byzantine tunic, 3 is another East Byzantine light infantry warrior in a characteristic fur hat, 4 is an East Roman infantryman from the Fifth Macedonian Legion. V-VI centuries. Figure: V. Korolkov from the edition "Knights of the East", M .: Pomatur, 2002, p. 6

Consequently, any nudity, so characteristic of antiquity, was also declared sinful. In Byzantium, the body was hidden in every possible way, for which the shape of the clothes served. And, similarly, whatever the body hid was approved.

That is why the Roman loose tunic was in use, although its name has changed. Now she was called Dalmatic, and toga began to correspond to kasula - a wide cloak with a hood. At the same time, the Dalmatic was often supplemented with a shoulder and an apron on the belt.


Byzantine fresco depicting St. Luke. St. Luke is depicted in the armor of a Byzantine warrior.
(Greek monastery in Boeotia, Greece)

A long shirt-skirt, like a Greek chiton or a Roman tunic, became the main component of the Byzantine costume. At the same time, she also acquired new forms. So, its surface has lost folds, sleeves were sewn to it, often long and narrowed at the wrists. The cut of the same tunic was very simple - in the shape of the letter T, with various lines of patterns sewn on it from a multi-colored braid.

Constantine IV and his retinue, mosaic in the Basilica of Sant'Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna

Pants (as a kind of clothing) were borrowed by the Byzantines from the East.

Here they looked like two separate trousers, fastened to the belt with ribbons. The length of the pants ranged from short (knee-deep) to long (ankle-length). But leg-tight stockings with a full toe were also known.


Byzantine ambassadors to the Sultan Al-Mamun. Miniature from the manuscript "History of the Byzantine emperors in Constantinople from 811 to 1057, written by the Kuropalat John Skilitsa."
National Library of Spain, Madrid

That is, the Byzantine clothing of the early Middle Ages represented a fusion of the traditions of Roman and Oriental costume.

Well, and information about how the Byzantine clothes looked like, we get from the surviving mosaics and icon painting of Byzantium. By the way, there is also a fashion for certain facial features. Thus, an elongated oval, large eyes and a small mouth become characteristic of the "Byzantine face".


The XNUMXth century miniatures of the Gospel of Rabula reflect the more abstract and symbolic character of Byzantine art. The Mother of God is dressed in purple.
Library Laurenziana, Florence

Women's and men's clothing


As for women's clothing, it is multi-layered. The long, foot-length lower table tunic with tight-fitting sleeves, decorated with a border on the wrist, is covered by the upper one, with wide open sleeves. The hard cape complements the suit and gives the figure a static, triangular shape. The cloak is overlaid on the shoulders at the back, and the ends are crossed in front and thrown back. The decoration is rich in ornaments and decorative elements - signs of class distinctions.


Mosaic from the Basilica of Sant Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna. It depicts virgin martyrs, holding martyr crowns in their hands. Among the martyrs: the holy virgins Kikiliya, Anastasia the Patterner, Agnia, Eulalia, Agathia of Catan, Victoria, Euphemia, Justina. But, despite all their martyrdom, the richness and variety of the fabrics of the clothes they wear are clearly visible ...

The Roman penula with a slit for the head is also found in the clothes of noble women of Byzantium. The head is covered with a maforium scarf, which is a symbol of the Mother of God and is often found in icon-painting images of saints.

The lower classes in Byzantium tried to follow the upper ones. But it is clear that the clothes were sewn from cheap fabrics, the patterns were the simplest, and they were shorter in length.


Diptych Barberini. High relief in marble depicting the victorious emperor. Louvre

But the outer clothing of the emperor and the nobility was exceptionally rich. First of all, it included a cloak-mantle with a brocade fastener on the shoulder, with rich decoration and a quadrangular emblem of the highest power - tablion (a piece of expensive brocade sewn on the cloak in front and behind). The nobility applied purple tablions. And the edges of the cloak were decorated with a lush decorative border.


The Four Tetrarchs is a sculptural composition made of dark red porphyry, mounted in the southern facade of the Venetian Cathedral of San Marco. The statue was made in the first half of the 1204th century and was part of the Constantinople Philadelpheion, built next to the Column of Constantine (present-day Chamberlitas Square). The sculpture was taken out by the crusaders from Constantinople in XNUMX. On the figures are cloaks of paludamentum, pterygs and military "caps from Pannonia", hands rest on swords of the spat type, with a hilt in the form of an eagle's head in the Sassanid style fashionable for that time.



This photo shows that part of the pedestal and the legs of one of the tetrarchs have been replaced with a remake. In the 1960s, during the excavation of the ruins of the Mireleion Palace in Istanbul, the missing fragment of the foot and the pedestal was found, and now it is stored in the Archaeological Museum of Istanbul

An amice is a round collar richly embroidered with precious stones, worn over the head and was also an important element of the royal attire. This element of the tsarist costume later became characteristic of the Russian boyars and tsars.


The Byzantines loved to wear jewelry. Here is a medallion of 1100 made of gold, decorated with enamel. Louvre

The costumes of the Byzantine court are displayed on the magnificent mosaic of the San Vitale temple in Ravenna, preserved from the middle of the XNUMXth century. BC e. to the present day.

The Empress Theodora is depicted on it with her retinue during a ceremonial exit. The empress's crown is adorned with gold, precious stones and long propendulas - pearl pendants. The lower white table is decorated with a rich border. The cloak is in purple fabric, the hem is decorated with gold embroidery. And her shoes are also trimmed with gold. By the way, purple and green colors of shoes in Byzantium were allowed only for the nobility.


And this is a wedding gold ring, VII century. Louvre

The fabrics used were very different, but their beauty was simply stunning.

Brocade and silk were covered with geometric patterns, stars, circles and stylized images of plants and animals. Well, and, of course, it could not do without Christian symbols either.

The fabrics were dense and heavy, which was necessary in order to emphasize the static character of the figure. Crosses, angels and Christian monograms were inscribed in circles and squares, just like lions, eagles and peacocks, so that the surface of clothes made from such a fabric looked like one continuous bright carpet.

Such costumes were typical of the later period of the Empire. But animals such as the bull and the eagle were usually the prerogative of the clothes of the emperor. The symbol of his power was purple cloth.

But the white color in Byzantium for some reason was considered mourning.


A pair of earrings that would suit any modern woman, approx. 600 Walters Museum, Baltimore, USA

At the same time, the colors of the clothes of the Byzantines also depended on which party of the hippodrome they belonged to. And there were four of them: prasyns ("green") and venetes ("blue"), which were considered the main ones, and also Rusii and levki ("red" and "white"). And to show their commitment to their party, they brought its color into their clothes.


Byzantine bracelet with pearls 500-700 g. Material: gold, silver, pearls, amethysts, sapphires, glass, quartz. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

In Byzantium, there were large enterprises that produced military armor and weapon according to uniform samples. Therefore, the equipment of both infantrymen and horsemen from the Byzantines proper was, in fact, standardized. Whereas mercenary units fought dressed and armed in their own way.


Gold earring with sapphire and pearl. Byzantium, VI-VII centuries Weight 11 g. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York


But this diadem, created by the craftsmen of the Castellani firm around 1860, reflects the great interest that arose in the culture of Byzantium in the middle of the XNUMXth century. Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York

Jewelry Fashion and Armor


Moreover, it was interesting to reproduce works of art from earlier eras with historical accuracy - an approach that was especially manifested in the creation of so-called archaeological jewelry (jewelry based on excavations from antiquity), the production of which reached its apogee just in the middle of the XNUMXth century.

Jewelry made during this period spanned the Etruscan, Ancient Roman, Early Christian, Byzantine and Medieval styles. The Castellani firm in Rome was the pioneer and dominant in the production of such archaeological jewelry. Founded by Fortunato Pio Castellani in 1814, the company was run by three generations of the family until it closed in 1927. Her products gained immense popularity in the highest circles of European society, and her success prompted many jewelers to work in a similar historical direction.

The horsemen used a kasis helmet with a chain mail aventail and metal earpieces. The name klibanion was carried by a shell made of metal plates sewn onto the skin and worn over the chain mail over the head. Halcotubes - leggings, made of narrow metal (copper) plates, also sewn onto the skin.

Often, on top of all this, the riders still wore a quilted colored epilorikion caftan, which was a kind of prototype of the uniform.

The horses of the riders of the Klibanophoros were also covered with armor made of felt and bone or metal plates.

Shields in the shape of an inverted drop were characteristic of Byzantium and from here spread throughout Europe and the Arab East.

Well, mercenaries from Europe - Catalonia and Italy, as described by their contemporary in the same XNUMXth century, were dressed in "bluish steel".
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  1. Hunter 2
    Hunter 2 11 February 2021 05: 33
    +12
    Vyacheslav Olegovich - sincerely Thank you For the article, today is just a holiday. Some, Two Excellent articles in the morning, Yours and Valeria Ryzhova good
    I especially liked the jewelry delights, the jewelry business stood at a very high level, even by modern standards! Gold and precious stones in beautifully crafted pieces stimulate nerve receptors!
    It's a pity there is no photo of armor in jewelry (Precious) finishing ...
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 07: 27
      +12
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Sorry no photo of armor

      Only on icons. Nothing survived ...
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 11 February 2021 08: 07
        +7
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. It was good for them ... The cut is simple, without any "single-breasted", "double-breasted", "leather jacket" .... laughing
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 11 February 2021 08: 20
          +12
          "I will not allow the waistline to drop to the hips. 155.
          After all, we are the center of Europe.
          I will not allow any Spaniards there to dictate terms to us.
          If you want a cut-off sleeve, please.
          Want a pleated skirt with grooves? I accept this too.
          But I will not let the waist line go down. "(C) laughing
          1. mr.ZinGer
            mr.ZinGer 11 February 2021 08: 28
            +6
            "Nobody is fighting in double-breasted now"
            1. The leader of the Redskins
              The leader of the Redskins 11 February 2021 08: 52
              +8
              How so? Very much! laughing
              1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
                Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 February 2021 11: 09
                +9
                The highest command personnel (generals) are wearing double-breasted tunics today.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 11 February 2021 15: 56
                  +5
                  And even the hats were taken away from the poor colonels! crying
    2. Mihaylov
      Mihaylov 11 February 2021 12: 11
      +8
      Quote: Hunter 2
      Sorry no photo of armor

      Here you are (only late - XV century, more precisely, frescoes of this time):

      1. Sergey Sfiedu
        Sergey Sfiedu 21 March 2021 21: 11
        +1
        These sources need to be treated with caution. Byzantine artists (and not only artists) had a very expressed desire for tradition. You need to draw (sculpt) as the ancestors did. Especially in icon painting. Step left and right, striving for reality is prohibited.
    3. Astra wild2
      Astra wild2 11 February 2021 15: 20
      +2
      "Two excellent articles in the morning, yours and Valeria" I love these authors very much, they are the decoration of the site, but annoying: one day two excellent authors, and then a gray melancholy.
      I am very afraid that some of them will leave the site.
      There used to be: "wind", Denis, there were, but they left
      1. kalibr
        11 February 2021 16: 06
        +2
        Quote: Astra wild2
        Denis

        Yes, I feel sorry for Denis too ...
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 11 February 2021 17: 33
          0
          Vyacheslav Olegovich, I am glad that our assessments coincide
          1. kalibr
            11 February 2021 17: 45
            0
            Well, not always and not in everything, but in this case I can only say I like high-quality work and people. who do it. That's all!
  2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 February 2021 05: 41
    +11
    Vyacheslav Olegovich thank you very much for the continuation of the "cycle about pants and togas" !!!
    1 - infantryman of the "Legion of Hercules". On the head is a characteristic casis helmet

    “1 is an infantryman of the Hercules Legion. On the head is a characteristic casis helmet. "

    I would also note that the warrior is armed with plumbats, on the inside of the shield.
    Have a nice day everyone, respectfully Vlad!
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 11 February 2021 06: 23
      +5
      and on the outside he has a darts target laughing
      The article is interesting as always, the illustrations are great!
      Here's what's interesting: the fashion to close in opposition to pagan Greece and Rome ... why not undress in opposition to the pagan and then the Muslim East? Following the example of the Old Testament righteous to sew or the New Testament? Or did people not ask the church such difficult questions then?
      1. kalibr
        11 February 2021 07: 34
        +6
        The body is sinful, one spirit is pure - that's what they taught. People were constantly frightened by hell, devils ... and at the same time they talked about salvation. Be righteous! They tried to fix human nature. But it turned out badly. They tried to paint churches with trees and leaves - that's the whole reform that was in Byzantium ... and then this fashion did not last long.
        1. depressant
          depressant 11 February 2021 10: 06
          +5
          - Daddy, Daddy !!! - cried the forum members and, sobbing with happiness, rushed into the arms of Vyacheslav Olegovich. - Where have you been, daddy?
          - Come back! - Angry Politics stepmother roared menacingly and, grabbing the sluggish, shoved them wherever they got to comment on street fights.

          Good morning, Vyacheslav Olegovich! love )))
          Good morning friends! love )))
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 February 2021 10: 15
            +7
            stepmom Wicked Politics
            "Children ran into the hut,
            In a hurry, they call their father:
            - Daddy, Daddy! Our networks,
            They brought a dead man! "(C)
            1. depressant
              depressant 11 February 2021 10: 27
              +4
              The exact definition of Wicked Politics! )))
              1. vladcub
                vladcub 11 February 2021 12: 19
                +6
                Lyudmila Yakovlevna, don't you like politics? Therefore, you are rarely seen under: Samsonov, (Samsonov), Apukhtin
                1. depressant
                  depressant 12 February 2021 11: 04
                  +2
                  Dear vladcub colleague! )))
                  Sorry, I don't know how to call you)))
                  Not later than yesterday, with this comment of yours in a delicate form, but far and for a long time, you sent me to Samsonov on a topic called something like "Where are you going, Russia?"
                  Oh no! I was not offended, I diligently went to the verbiage diluted by my respected colleagues and offered specific criteria for assessing that, this and other fifth and tenth, around which and about which those present were fighting. And, imagine, a very smart person who was attached to me was Epitafyevich Y, immediately unhooked, remaining attached to the rest. Because arguing with me is useless. I love to listen to beautiful, intelligent speeches of educated people - isn't it a pleasure! And then I give comparative figures, I'm ready for a substantive conversation, but they hurriedly turn away from me and, looking around fearfully, walk away - everyone! For you can't argue against numbers, and no one is ready for a substantive conversation. And I stay alone)))
                  And Samsonov's article is good, thanks for sending)))

                  Why are Shpakovsky's articles better? There is a subject for conversation, comparative analysis and conclusions, namely:
                  photographs of weapons, clothing patterns, architectural monuments, sculptures, paintings, chronicles, chronicles, literature, opinions of modern scientists, both Russian and foreign.

                  What is the weakness of Samsonov's political articles commentators? In discussions, commentators rely only on their own beliefs, weakly supported by factual material, as well as on the classics of Marxism, who were good and acceptable only in their historical time, and there are no new classics.
                  1. vladcub
                    vladcub 12 February 2021 16: 22
                    +1
                    "What is the weakness of the commentators of Samsonov's political articles" rather everyone imagines himself to be a know-it-all.
                    "there are no new classics" and will not be. How not to relate to Stalin, Lenin or Marx, but they were PERSONALITIES, and personalities are born once every 100 years
          2. kalibr
            11 February 2021 11: 30
            +4
            Good morning, and to you, dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna! It's impossible without politics ... At least a little!
            1. depressant
              depressant 11 February 2021 13: 08
              +4
              Dear friends!
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, sorry to address everyone)))
              Politics is a necessary thing, but our attitude towards it should not be crushingly irreparable. Both for politics and for ourselves. For example, street fights, turning into a crowd revolt, guided by all the good against all the bad, always lead to the worst, and it's not for me to prove it to you, friends. And you know without me. But it is to this that people are assiduously and purposefully persuaded, and I cannot yet figure out who benefits from it, who does it. Whether its own political leadership is a beneficiary (I don’t exclude it!), Or external forces, or part of the oligarchy is playing, for me the picture is still ambiguous. In any of the cases, unequal consequences are calculated taking into account the characteristics of each of the sides of the planned action, but it is being started. Either the tsar will be clicked in the form of a dictator, or one opposing clan will defeat the other and the old one will be consumed, or territorial fragments will fall. But whatever the outcome, the "gold of the party" will disappear in an unknown direction, perhaps as compensation or ransom - this I can predict for sure wassat )))
              I really don't like all this. Life is still quiet, but no longer the same, no one watches TV - I have a Khrushchev house, the whole house is bugged through and through. Apparently, the inhabitants listen to what is behind the windows, on the street, and also on the stairwells. Life has become strange. As if everyone does not live, but froze in anticipation of something.
              1. kalibr
                11 February 2021 14: 10
                +3
                Quote: depressant
                As if everyone does not live, but froze in anticipation of something.

                This is the manner of the majority with us. Post-peasant. Because there is really nothing to wait. You just have to live and enjoy.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 11 February 2021 11: 10
          +3
          But it turned out badly.
          That's for sure. Especially if you remember the biography of Caesarissa Theodora.
    2. Engineer
      Engineer 11 February 2021 10: 57
      +6
      I don't really understand the topic and I don't know what casis is)
      On the warrior there is 1 variation of spangenhelm. A similar helmet was dug in Deir El Medina, Egypt. Helmet 4-5 centuries
      On warrior 2, the Spangenhelm looks like a helmet from Leiden of the 4th-6th centuries. But he had one outer stripe in the center, the second exactly on the sides.
      On Warrior 4, the helmet looks fanetic. Apparently he was drawn from the image, the antique author of which was inspired by the images of the 1-3 centuries. The helmet is one-piece, the technology was abandoned in the 3rd century and again became widespread somewhere in the 10th century. Most of all it looks like Intercisa helmets, the place of discovery of which I do not know, but those without a forehead, a connecting bridge-comb with rivets goes all over the helmet (ridge helmet in Western literature) the decor comb itself was metallic
      In any case, the warriors look more realistic than, say, the Warhammer style of Gianopoulos. laughing
      1. depressant
        depressant 11 February 2021 11: 16
        +5
        Yes, the technology of making helmets and armor has gone far since the times of Ancient Egypt and the Second Rome))) I would post a picture, but I can't. It would be interesting to compare.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 11 February 2021 11: 43
          +5
          In principle, spangenhelms and helmets with a crest are a step back compared to the "imperial helmets" of Rome the first. You can also recall the rejection of the famous lorica of the segmental in the 3rd century.
          Spangenhelms, they are also segmental, they are also frame:
          Deir el Medina

          Leiden


          Crest helmets. They are named so not because of the decoration in the form of a ridge, but because of the central protrusion-ridge that connected the two halves with rivets. A helmet with a crest could also have a decorative crest like Intercisa

          The inrecisa helmets (fig. 6 above) had a squashed ornament that may have been colored
          Here's an attempt at reconstruction
          1. kalibr
            11 February 2021 14: 27
            +2
            Excellent! This is what my artist used!
      2. kalibr
        11 February 2021 11: 33
        +6
        All the drawings, Denis, were made one to one from the drawings of Angus McBride, and the explanation to him indicated where he took it from - this is the requirement of the Osprey publishing house. So there is no "fantasy". I have a large drawing of this helmet. I wanted to insert, but did not insert - this is money from my pocket.
        1. Engineer
          Engineer 11 February 2021 11: 54
          +5
          At least give a link)
          Of course, I could be wrong, because I am familiar with the topic superficially.
          McBride screwed up more than once or ten. This is normal. Osprey are great, but they are not distinguished by scrupulous reconciliation. Men at Arms is a popular, not academic series.
          Famous McBride bloopers. Just what came to mind.
          An ordinary Scythian on horseback with a headdress from the "leader" of the Pazyryk mound
          Sassanid cataphract with tassels - signs of the royal family, but without a status headdress.
          Slav with braids laughing
          Avar leader without armor, without deformed skull of armor and with undersized
          As far as I know, the artist in Osprey is controlled by a historian. More to blame is McBride's "accomplice" Nicole. There are a lot of claims to him, some of which have already been voiced.
          1. vladcub
            vladcub 11 February 2021 12: 27
            +6
            "McBraid's accomplice" to the Osprey edition "to put on display": why do they tolerate hack-work?
            1. Engineer
              Engineer 11 February 2021 12: 52
              +7
              Well, all the professionals are sometimes trash.)
              Only a few were able to learn Zen - when you draw better than McBride, and you know history better than Nicolas. When you are equally respected by academicians and reenactors and ordinary readers.

              Of the untwisted ones, our compatriot Negin can be noted
              1. Mihaylov
                Mihaylov 11 February 2021 14: 12
                +4
                Quote: Engineer
                Of the untwisted ones, our compatriot Negin can be noted

                Good afternoon, funny picture, whose is this? There are a lot of questions about it.
                I bought Negin's pipes, now I'm just "mastering" it. hi
                1. Engineer
                  Engineer 11 February 2021 14: 19
                  +4
                  Good afternoon,
                  Peter Connolly.
                  The questions of the masses, no doubt. I don't know the author's reasons, I can guess. I must do the proofreading of the Iliad)
                  For example, the helmet of Odysseus is really from Homer made of boar tusks. Like on a picture
                  It was this picture that I added to show that as an artist Connolly is better and more interesting than McBride.
                  1. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 11 February 2021 14: 34
                    +4
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Odysseus' helmet is actually from Homer's fangs.

                    A boar-tusk helmet is a really well-proven thing, both archeologically and iconographically. Now we have several well-preserved finds and images.
                    The prototype for the helmet of Diomedes apparently served as a helmet from Tiryns:

                    But it is dated to the 11th century BC, at least such a date is indicated in the museum.
                    About metal helmets - as far as I know, there are no finds.
                    The armor is generally fancy, apparently what should have been drawn - so they did it.
                    Except of course "shell from Dendra"

                    But this is the only armor that has come down to us from the Mycenaean time. There are mentions in the tablets of some plates, which are interpreted as plates for armor, and very vague iconography.
                    Well, spears, swords - that's enough dug up, the shields are most likely also true (a lot of iconography)
                    About the leggings - I don't know, I think there are no finds, but I'm not sure.
                    There is also such a plate, but I don't remember its dating:
                    1. Engineer
                      Engineer 11 February 2021 14: 50
                      +4
                      This is the problem of poorly illuminated periods - if little material has to be turned to analogs of neighboring early and late eras
                      The helmet and shield of Agamemnon of the king of Mycenae are clearly taken from the Mycenaean crater.

                      But this is the era of the mine tombs of circle A, as I understand it, before the Trojan War
                      Leggings mentioned in Homer - from flexible tin in Achilles
                      PS Ajax has a conical bronze helmet imitating a boar
                      It seems that even the era falls well
                      1. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 11 February 2021 15: 00
                        +4
                        Quote: Engineer
                        The helmet and shield of Agamemnon of the king of Mycenae are clearly taken from the Mycenaean crater.

                        Yes, this crater is almost the only iconography of warriors and that is very "muddy".
                        The horns on the helmets are apparently from here, although it is not completely clear what it is here? And if this is a horn - then there is only one, although again - maybe the specificity of the image?
                        You can see what looks like leggings.
                        Carapaces are usually treated as leather.
                        And as far as I know, no metal elements of the shells were practically found, as well as the shells themselves (except for one - from Dendra), although we at least have some sample of the graves of "kings" and warriors.
                        Circle A - as far as I remember the XNUMXth century BC hi
                      2. Engineer
                        Engineer 11 February 2021 15: 07
                        +3
                        Metal helmet - analogue of ajax

                        According to an alternative dating, Vaza Voinov is about 1200 BC. If so, then the hit is good.
                        Aeneas has a headdress of the "peoples of the sea" from Egyptian monuments
                        It is not clear why exactly this, and not "Sherdan" with a disk and horns if we accept the analogy of Dardans-Sherdans. And Aeneas of the Dardans
                      3. Mihaylov
                        Mihaylov 11 February 2021 15: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: Engineer
                        Metal helmet - analogue of ajax

                        And where did this come from? and how is it dated? I don't know about him.
                        If he is Mycenaean, then of course there are no questions hi
                  2. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 11 February 2021 15: 16
                    +3
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Ajax has a conical bronze helmet imitating a boar
                    It seems that even the era falls well

                    With wild boars just not a problem, but with metal - yes.
                    As far as I know, there are no such finds, however I cannot "guarantee".
                    Leggings mentioned in Homer - from flexible tin in Achilles

                    Homer's realities of different eras were mixed, although they probably had leggings, on the crater there is clearly something similar to them.
                  3. Engineer
                    Engineer 11 February 2021 15: 31
                    +3
                    http://antiquatedantiquarian.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-minoans-warfare.html
                    The link has a good selection of armor. It can be seen how knowledge is being collected bit by bit.
                    Three bronze helmets in the form of conical caps 1400-1200 The origin is not known exactly. Aegean region or Balkans.
                    I have no doubt about bronze helmets for a second in the neighboring synchronous culture of the fields of burial urns.
                  4. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 11 February 2021 15: 49
                    +3
                    Quote: Engineer
                    I have no doubt about bronze helmets for a second in the neighboring synchronous culture of the fields of burial urns.

                    I'll take a closer look later (the link is good - thank you), but in general 1 bronze helmet from Knossos is indicated there and this is already good, the origin of the rest, as I understand it, is somewhat murky.
                    In general, I also think that bronze helmets should be for that era, in theory - they could not but be, but it is strange that they are not in the "royal graves" and in most "warriors' graves", although other weapons and decorations are usually there lots of.
                  5. Engineer
                    Engineer 11 February 2021 16: 04
                    +3
                    There is room for speculation.
                    By analogy with the Sarmatian graves, spears are "underrepresented" there. Although it should also be everywhere. Especially seen when compared with the Scythian.
                    Perhaps the value of the helmet and armor was generally the highest for the Mycenaean Greeks. Technically, this is how it should be - the consumption of valuable bronze is maximum.
                    Homer seems to have a lot more emphasis on armor than weapons. From memory I remember the helmet Hector - the gift of Apollo - saving from Diomedes. The forging of the shield in Canto 11 takes up a very large part of the description. As if the armor is more valuable. I don't remember anything like that about swords and spears
                    Swords are consumable items. Only spears are described with reverence.
                  6. Mihaylov
                    Mihaylov 11 February 2021 16: 19
                    +4
                    Quote: Engineer
                    Perhaps the value of the helmet and armor was generally the highest for the Mycenaean Greeks. Technically, this is how it should be - the consumption of valuable bronze is maximum.

                    This is quite possible, probably the vast majority of the armor was leather.
                    But at the same time, we have swords, spears and daggers in marketable quantities, and in general it is not so bad with bronze: it is presented in fairly large quantities in museums from the Mycenaean time: very large vessels and vats and even a colander - made of bronze:

                    In the same archaeological museum of Herakleon there are bronze swords - dozens of the same (apparently an arsenal), but with helmets and armor - a problem. I do not know why.
  • kalibr
    11 February 2021 14: 24
    +3
    Anything is possible, Denis. I have already written here and even brought sketches of drawings by D. Nicolas to my book about the warriors of Siberia. The requirements were very strict. For every detail - a photo or drawing with a link. Yes, and Nicolas himself has a two-volume book (I referred to him more than once) "Armor and weapons of the crusader era 1050-1350." and there are a lot of sketches from the sources - I don't want to take it. And according to Byzantium there is a lot of everything ... I cannot say more precisely. Check out this two-volume book yourself, it should be online.
  • kalibr
    11 February 2021 14: 25
    +3
    Quote: Engineer
    At least give a link)

    I will not give Denis. The book was written in 1999-2000. was released in 2002.
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 21 March 2021 21: 18
    0
    "I would also note that the warrior is armed with plumbats, on the inside of the shield."
    "And a light infantryman with a solearion"
    Yeah. And lead is expensive today. Somehow I have never heard of plumbates in Witzanthia. And the crown princess Anna Komnina directly wrote that in Byzantium (at least in her time) there were no crossbows. And the soldiers with bare feet cause doubts - after all, there were almost no Romans in the troops, more and more Germans, Slavs, Antes, Armenians, Isaurs, who were used to pants. Yes, and the Romans dressed in pants, because the climate became colder by the Byzantine times.
  • pmkemcity
    pmkemcity 11 February 2021 07: 03
    +2
    At the same time, the colors of the clothes of the Byzantines also depended on which party of the hippodrome they belonged to. And there were four of them: prasyns ("green") and venetes ("blue"), which were considered the main ones, and also Rusii and levki ("red" and "white").

    And then the "blue" jumped over everyone! And Rusii are still red!
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 07: 34
      +5
      Yes, amazing!
  • bober1982
    bober1982 11 February 2021 07: 25
    +6
    A small inaccuracy, Byzantium never was and could not be the Third Rome.
    1. Hunter 2
      Hunter 2 11 February 2021 07: 33
      +9
      Exactly hi The Russian Empire is called the Third Rome!
      The phrase "Moscow - the Third Rome" appeared in Russia in the first half of the 1523th century. Its author is traditionally considered to be the monk of the Pskov Eleazarov Monastery Filofei. In his messages from 1524-XNUMX to the clerk Mikhail Misuryu-Munehin and the Grand Duke of Moscow Vasily III, he spoke about the role of “Earthly Rome” that Moscow was to take.
      1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 February 2021 11: 11
        +8
        To be more precise, Alexey is not the Russian Empire, but the Russian Kingdom of the 16-17th century model!
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 11 February 2021 11: 14
          +6
          That's exactly Vladislav! It's just that I even have Early Russia, divided into Principalities, still associated with the Empire!
        2. vladcub
          vladcub 11 February 2021 12: 30
          +4
          Good day, namesake. Reasonable remark. Before 1721 it was: Muscovy
          1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
            Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 February 2021 16: 14
            +3
            Quote: vladcub
            Good day, namesake. Reasonable remark. Before 1721 it was: Muscovy

            Namesake is here, I bet. In foreign documents, yes, in internal documents, starting with Ivan III - the autocrat of all Russia, from Ivan IV - the king of all Russia. So the conversation was about Russia, Russia. The title of the Grand Duke of Moscow was additional and went to everyone for the Grand Duke of Vladimir.
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 12 February 2021 16: 37
              +1
              Namesake, for that matter, remember: Grand Duke of Kiev Yaroslav the Wise, Grand Duke of Vladimir Vsevolod the Big Nest, Daniil Alexandrovich, Grand Duke Simeon, I like him more than Ivan 3, but here is the "diocese" of Michael "Trilobite"
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. kalibr
      11 February 2021 07: 37
      +6
      Well, they were talking about Moscow - the Third Rome!
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 11 February 2021 07: 44
        +5
        By the way, they also spoke about Byzantium.
        The Franks invented the myth that Byzantium was the empire of the Greeks, not the Romans, who lost all rights to the Roman heritage.
        Everything is very confusing.
        1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 11 February 2021 11: 14
          +5
          If I am not mistaken after the capture of Rome, the Goth King Theodoric sent the symbols of power to Constantinople. So the wishlist of the heirs of Charlemagne have a different background. By the way, there are more than three centuries between these events !!!
        2. Sergey Sfiedu
          Sergey Sfiedu 21 March 2021 21: 38
          0
          Well, hardly just francs. If memory serves, Procopius himself put in the mouth of some Gothic king reproaches to the Roman senators that they sold themselves to the Greeks.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 February 2021 08: 16
    +4
    But the white color in Byzantium for some reason was considered mourning.
    If I am not mistaken, in Japan too.
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 February 2021 08: 24
      +3
      In Byzantium, white is a symbol of purity and holiness, such a color was never considered mourning.
      1. kalibr
        11 February 2021 08: 59
        +6
        Quote: bober1982
        In Byzantium, white is a symbol of purity and holiness, such a color was never considered mourning.

        Yes, I invented it myself and wrote it drunk. Excuse me!
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 11 February 2021 12: 36
          +4
          V.O., you are not very good there with: "You are making battles with Ivashka Khmelnitsky," otherwise it will be expensive. Now high-quality "booze" bites, and to drink suragat - do not take care of yourself
          1. kalibr
            11 February 2021 14: 18
            +2
            Quote: vladcub
            Now quality "booze" bites

            I have my own, homemade. The wife does!
            1. vladcub
              vladcub 12 February 2021 16: 39
              0
              I also only consume homemade
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 11 February 2021 14: 17
        +5
        In Byzantium, white is a symbol of purity and holiness, such a color was never considered mourning.
        It does not interfere. The preferred color of mourning clothing in Byzantium was indeed white.
        In medieval France and Spain, white was also a mourning color.
        White was a mourning color for queens in the Middle Ages.

        Mary Stuart is in mourning.
    2. kalibr
      11 February 2021 09: 00
      +5
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      If I am not mistaken, in Japan too.

      No, you are not mistaken. And the seppuku should be dressed in white!
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 11 February 2021 08: 49
    +5
    Pearl jewelry is surprisingly well preserved for 1500 years. A very "capricious" natural mineral.
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 08: 58
      +4
      .
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      for 1500 years.

      They are less, of course, same ..
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 11 February 2021 09: 01
        +4
        Under your illustrations, 5-6-7 centuries are indicated. However, pearls and ten years of improper storage are enough for irreparable damage.
        1. Hunter 2
          Hunter 2 11 February 2021 09: 10
          +6
          Anton hi that's right, pearls are living stuff! I was also surprised by its excellent condition, and judging by the shape - natural pearls!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 February 2021 09: 16
            +5
            My respect, Alexey! Gold and silver had learned to counterfeit by that time, but pearls had not yet. However, as well as to process stones.
            1. Hunter 2
              Hunter 2 11 February 2021 09: 28
              +6
              Stones could not be cut, but they could already be polished! Processing Cabochon (Cape - head. Lat) - just in ancient Rome and appeared, and from the photos provided - it is perfectly visible!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 11 February 2021 09: 33
                +4
                I'm sorry, I formulated it incorrectly.
        2. kalibr
          11 February 2021 09: 18
          +5
          It was always bad with math, Anton. Alas!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 February 2021 10: 02
            +7
            But you can write!
            There is such an anecdote:
            "The beginning of the 20th century. Odessa. A young Jewish boy came to get a job as an accountant. He is asked to write a statement.
            - Oops, but I can't write!
            - ???? But how are you going to work as an accountant?!?!
            - Still, I can count well!
            - Please go out!
            50 years have passed ...
            New York, Wall Street, office of the director of a large brokerage firm. The secretary who was hired yesterday comes in:
            - Mister Rabinovich, sign the documents.
            The old Jew, lounging imposingly in an armchair, answers nostalgically and dreamily:
            - Honey, if I could write, I would be an accountant in Odessa! "
            1. kalibr
              11 February 2021 11: 36
              +5
              Yes, Anton! Eight of my books are now appealing to the electronic publishing company in Singapore. So ... "They won't send a little chapaev!" And you too...
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 11 February 2021 11: 38
                +6
                Happy for you! good
                "In the kulak economy, the bull's tail is a rope!" laughing
                I am going to the Hermitage, photographing the "Iron Age", I will send the results.
                1. kalibr
                  11 February 2021 11: 41
                  +5
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  I am going to the Hermitage, photographing the "Iron Age", I will send the results.

                  I rejoice in advance and jump on the seat!
                  1. Astra wild2
                    Astra wild2 11 February 2021 14: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    I am going to the Hermitage, photographing the "Iron Age", I will send the results.

                    I rejoice in advance and jump on the seat!

                    Vyacheslav Olegovich, do you remember who said that he has a difficult character and is difficult to work with?
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 11 February 2021 15: 19
                      +1
                      This is the slander of envious people!
                      1. Astra wild2
                        Astra wild2 11 February 2021 17: 53
                        +1
                        I thought so now
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 11 February 2021 15: 36
                    +2
                    Ufff! I shot half of it. The lighting is very good. We need one more call.
                    But you know, I have never seen such a disgustingly organized exhibition in the Hermitage !!!
                    1. Astra wild2
                      Astra wild2 11 February 2021 17: 56
                      +1
                      Anton, what kind of exhibition? Perhaps something fun? So that Vyacheslav Olegovich wrote an interesting work
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 11 February 2021 18: 06
                        +1
                        Go to the Hermitage website and see material about the Iron Age exhibition.
                2. Mihaylov
                  Mihaylov 11 February 2021 12: 09
                  +6
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  I'm going to the Hermitage, taking pictures of the Iron Age

                  Anton, as without me?
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 11 February 2021 12: 26
                    +5
                    Sergey, everything is all right! We have two more weekend days! I'm just going to work as a photographer. By the way, try to come to an agreement with Nikolai, I'll adjust.
                    1. Mihaylov
                      Mihaylov 11 February 2021 12: 31
                      +6
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      We have two more weekend days!

                      Are there any excitements expected over the weekend? I just don't know as usual. Otherwise I would love to go hi
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 11 February 2021 12: 37
                        +5
                        I also do not know. The square was also cordoned off last weekend. Now I did not buy a ticket, I will try to buy it on the spot.
              2. Senior seaman
                Senior seaman 11 February 2021 16: 00
                +2
                Quote: kalibr
                an electronic publishing company in Singapore.

                Dreame?
                1. kalibr
                  11 February 2021 16: 13
                  +3
                  Quote: Senior Sailor
                  Dreame?

                  Yes, to him, of course. But they offered ... I did not know about their existence.
            2. vladcub
              vladcub 11 February 2021 12: 53
              +7
              Hello Anton. I know this anecdote in a different edition
              The factory needed a janitor. Rabinovich could not write and could not write a statement. He was refused
              15 years later in Manhattan, a respectable gentleman walks into a jewelry store and buys a chic ring. Calculated in cash.
              "Mister, isn't it easier to write a check?"
              - If I could write. I would still work as a janitor at an engineering plant
        3. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 11 February 2021 15: 01
          +1
          "for unrecoverable damage". Anton, I read some novel. The jewelers had a legend. If a loving virgin dives into the sea 100 times, the pearl should be pressed against the breasts, then she will recover.
          Probably then it was problematic to dive with a pressed pearl. Then there were no swimsuits, and all garters are not reliable: they can be untied at the most inopportune moment. And diving with one hand is problematic.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 11 February 2021 15: 28
            +3
            This legend, My Fair Stranger, is from the same category as the production of cigars, by rolling them on the inner thighs of girls.
            1. Astra wild2
              Astra wild2 11 February 2021 17: 47
              +2
              Regarding pearls, the beautiful legend agrees. And about cigars, I was still in school and read a serious publication, something like this: cigars: "crown" workers roll on the top surface of the cigars. They are impregnated with the sweat of the female workers and therefore they have a special aroma and a unique taste. Later, I saw that these cigars were on sale somewhere and felt respect for the work of the female workers.
      2. vladcub
        vladcub 11 February 2021 12: 40
        +2
        In any case, they will be about 1000 years old. Unless this is a "remake"
      3. Undecim
        Undecim 11 February 2021 14: 34
        +7

        By the age of pearls.
        1. Astra wild2
          Astra wild2 11 February 2021 17: 51
          +2
          Viktor Nikolaevich, you are in your role: to supplement and refuel with tar to someone
  • Ren
    Ren 11 February 2021 10: 58
    +1
    the turn came to the clothes of Byzantium - the Third Rome

    Moscow - Third Rome:
    Byzantium (Constantinople / Tsar-grad) - Second Rome. hi
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 14: 16
      +1
      Yes, of course, just a mistake.
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 11 February 2021 12: 07
    +3
    Good day. Vyacheslav Olegovich, from me and my friends, thanks for the interesting material. And what illustrations. We were especially delighted with: Sapphire earring and diadem. How happy anyone would be, wearing such earrings
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 11 February 2021 14: 07
      +2
      "such earrings" who would doubt it. If you change one aphorism: "a lady has earrings on her mind"
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 11 February 2021 12: 42
    -1
    The photo shows only the clothes of a pedestrian, a foot warrior. You can't ride a horse in a skirt below the knees. I don't see any pants at all. They were portrayed somewhere, or is it, as usual, an invention? It is good that the diadem in the bottom photo is honestly called "a product based on". But the jewelry in the photo above is definitely a fake) Like the vast majority of "historical jewelry". They did not know how to cut stones in the old days - I agree. But here's the rest ... Gold is a soft and malleable metal. The most primitive tools can perfectly align, iron the metal, give it a beautiful shape. What do we see? Rough, crooked, gnarled craft. The fact is that when all these "historical treasures" were being sculpted, the idea dominated that in the old days it was not people who lived, but some kind of semi-animals who didn’t understand, couldn’t do anything, were worse than the brilliant contemporaries of historians and archaeologists in everything) ) So they did, on behalf of the shaggy "ancient people", such pitiful slogans. But from expensive metals, yes!
    In modern expeditions, it was partially possible to deviate from the usual standard in archeology - lies, deception, manipulation and other outstanding advantages of this "science". And suddenly, in the Scythian mounds, they began to find golden things, which even now are not ashamed to wear ...
    1. depressant
      depressant 11 February 2021 13: 50
      +3
      Well, you see, the manufacturers read Flaubert's "Salammbô" and decided that it was so)))
      There, the main character disdainfully examines the jewelry presented to her with just such thoughts: gross bad taste.
    2. kalibr
      11 February 2021 14: 13
      +2
      Quote: Mikhail3
      The fact is that when all these "historical treasures" were sculpted, the idea dominated that in the old days it was not people who lived, but some kind of semi-animals that didn’t understand, couldn’t do anything, were worse than the brilliant contemporaries of historians and archaeologists in everything) )

      I wonder where you got this from? At least one work in support of your statements. I personally have not read this from anyone.
      1. kalibr
        12 February 2021 07: 45
        0
        Asked a question, but no answer. Eh, you are a critic, Mikhail, well, just ...
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 11 February 2021 14: 38
    +1
    "The four tetrarchs" probably speaks in me of the depravity and cynicism of the 21st century, but I have evoked an association with sodomy. A bearded man hugs a beardless, obvious fagot.
    I was 14-15 years old when I first saw a young man in tight-fitting clothes and painted lips. Someone said: "Here's Olya."
    After that, how much time has passed and I have seen a lot, but every time I hear about them I remember this "Olya"
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 16: 18
      +2
      I don't know anything about it, Astra. I first read about this sculpture a long time ago, back in Soviet times, in the book "Art of the Ancient World". Such art history nonsense was heaped up there that I did not remember, although the memory was excellent, and even now I did not look for that book and copy from there. But when I stood next to them and filmed ... the feeling is funny - "they are wild, but cute."
    2. Sergey Sfiedu
      Sergey Sfiedu 21 March 2021 21: 41
      0
      In Byzantium, sodomy was severely punished. And male friendship was welcomed. Although the "four tetrarchs" were made in the first half of the XNUMXth century, this is not Byzantium, but late Rome.
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 11 February 2021 20: 39
    +2
    No, well, how good it is to sit in the evening and read what worthy people write about interesting things ... More than a hundred comments, and only once or two I wanted to put a minus, but I restrained myself, the mood was good. smile
    On my own behalf, I will add that Byzantium is terra incognita for me, and it is all the more interesting to read articles and comments of knowledgeable people about it.
    Probably, if any of the civilizations of our planet could be of alien origin, then most likely it should have been Byzantine. I constantly get the impression that throughout the entire period of its existence, she was some kind of foreign body among a completely hostile environment. The great migration of peoples, Arab conquests, Slavic expansion, the European "push to the east", the Turks, the Seljuks, the Ottomans - for all she was some kind of irritant, a permanent enemy, an object of aggression from the beginning to the end of her existence, and these are good a thousand years...
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, as always, thanks for the interesting and new material for me. Colleagues, thank you for your comments, for the setting, for the atmosphere. In my mind I am with you. smile
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 21: 05
      +3
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      I constantly get the impression that during the entire period of its existence, she was some kind of foreign body among a completely hostile environment. The great migration of peoples, Arab conquests, Slavic expansion, the European "push to the east", the Turks, the Seljuks, the Ottomans - for all she was some kind of irritant, a permanent enemy, an object of aggression from the beginning to the end of her existence, and these are good a thousand years...

      Oh-oh-oh-oh-t! This very thought does not leave me either. There is even such a term - "Byzantism" a mixture of wisdom, cunning, deceit and high culture allowing ... to survive in the world of numerous ... savages. But there were too many of them! Well, the mistake of Prince Vladimir - he chose the religion of the weak side. That is, it is clear why. But having done so, he threw our country to the side of the road and put a "foreign body" in line. And at the same time, it was Byzantism that we lacked!
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 12 February 2021 13: 22
        +3
        There should always be strength behind wisdom and culture, and Byzantium had it. And when he was gone, then wisdom did not help either.
        In the X century. Byzantium was still far from decay, and culturally superior to everyone by a head or two, so Vladimir, in fact, had no choice. Some believe that the chronicle story about the choice of faith is fiction.
        But it was baptism, and precisely according to the Byzantine rite, that, in my opinion, allowed Russia, in just a couple of centuries, even less, to go through the path that Europe traveled over half a millennium.
        If Vladimir were baptized by the Pope, we would become the backyards of Europe and an eternal battlefield between the West and the East. Accept Islam - would become the backyards of Asia. And so, in general, it turned out well - the state from the Barents to the Black Sea and from the Baltic to the Sea of ​​Japan. Its own. Own. Independent.
        And the fact that we live in poverty - that's how it always was, is and will be - it's cold here, there's nothing to be done. You have to pay more for everything, work harder for less results - build houses thicker, heat them more often, the land will give birth badly, almost half under permafrost, cold in winter, dry in summer ... Well, except for St. Petersburg, it is cold and wet. smile
        1. kalibr
          12 February 2021 13: 50
          +2
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          we would become the backyards of Europe and the eternal battlefield between west and east. Accept Islam - would become the backyards of Asia.

          Michael! What a wonderful phrase you wrote. Now let's write it in a different way. We would become a frontier, a border, a "gate". And what do they do the border? They always strengthen! They build stone bridges for the cavalry, castles for the deployment of troops, cathedrals and mosques - to pray for the gift of victory. The border would take all the best weapons, the best horses, the best architects, paladins of both lands would come here to perform their feats. Our allies would not be Serbs, Macedonians and Greeks, but Saudis, Iranians, British, Germans and French - co-religionists, tied by dynastic marriages and land tenure. How do you like this option?
        2. kalibr
          12 February 2021 13: 51
          +1
          Quote: Trilobite Master
          Its own. Own. Independent.

          Between a rock and a hard place, surrounded by enemies, without allies, hated by everyone ...
          1. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 12 February 2021 14: 44
            +1
            Quote: kalibr
            surrounded by enemies, without allies, hated by everyone

            Hate everyone who is stronger. They also hated Great Britain, and now the United States all over the world hate much more than Russia. They are afraid and groveling, but they hate. Let's put it this way: if we are hated, then we are doing everything right. smile
            But about an alternative course of history in the event of a different decision of Vladimir, one can argue for a long time and with enthusiasm, although, in general, I think, we will not be able to convince each other of something.
            I don’t think that Russia, if it had become the front line in the struggle of the West with the East or the East with the West, would have been cared for. Would go hiking back and forth, ruining, as usual, everything you pass by, the sheriff's Indians do not care about the problems.
            With regard to allies, this is a fickle matter, today an ally, tomorrow an enemy, then again an ally and again an enemy. The British, over there, were more often our allies, and the Germans were our opponents. And the Greeks and Serbs for the last thousand years also did not help us very much.
            Our lands are not needed by anyone - too harsh. And they come to us only because they are afraid that we will come to them. If we were sitting on our priests evenly, in our felt boots and quilted jackets, everyone would love us and rip off culturally, as civilized people have always ripped off barbarians.
            I don’t know, Vyacheslav Olegovich, what would have happened if ... I only know that I live in this country, I don’t want to live in another - neither where is it warmer, nor where is richer. I like that my country is big, that many different people live in it, a lot of land, space. I am proud that my country is independent, capable of standing up for its independence in front of any enemy. Yes, we live not richer than everyone, but not poorer. We live averagely. Fine. I would like it better, but in order for someone to live better, it is necessary for someone else to live worse, otherwise it does not happen. And to live worse than we lived, for the sake of a better life, we will not all agree. smile
            Maybe if I was born in some "Republic of Ingermanlandia" on the border with the "Novgorod People's Republic", I would have thought differently. I would dream of dumping where life is more satisfying, I would bow before the United States, Europe ...
            But now I don't want to go to work in France or Britain, which have always been and will be richer than we are.
            1. kalibr
              12 February 2021 16: 33
              +2
              Have you read Kipling's Kim novel, Mikhail? You argue just like its main character, you must ...
              1. Fat
                Fat 12 February 2021 17: 21
                +2
                hi
                Oh, the West is the West, the East is the East, and they will not come down from the ground,
                Until Heaven and Earth appear on the Last Judgment.
                But there is no East, and the West does not exist, that the tribe, the motherland, the family,
                If a strong man with a strong face to face at the edge of the earth gets up?

                Kamal fled with twenty people to the border of the rebellious tribes,
                And the colonel's mare, his pride, stole him from the colonel.
                From the very stable of his he hijacked at the end of the night hours,
                Thorns on horseshoes she turned, jumped up and was like that.
                But a colonel’s son came out and said that the scouts are being led by a detachment:
                "Will none of my fellows show where the horse thief is?"
                And Mohammed Khan, the son of Risaldar, came forward and said:
                "Who knows the path of the night fog, knows its halt.
                He will ride at twilight Abazai, in Bonair he will meet the dawn
                And he must drive near Fort Buklo, he has no other way.
                And if you rush to Fort Buklo of the flying bird faster,
                Then with God's help you will catch him up to the entrance to the Jagei gorge.
                But if he passed the Jagei gorge, quickly turn back:
                Every inch of the earth is dangerous there, people are teeming with Kamala there.
                There's a rock to the right and a rock to the left, thorns and piles of sand ...
                You will hear how the bolt of the gun will click, but you will not see the arrow anywhere "
                And the colonel's son took his horse, his black horse:
                Like a bell the mouth, hell beats in his chest, his neck is stronger than the gallows.
                The colonel's son rushed to the fort, they call him for dinner,
                But whoever wants to catch up with the thief from the border is not a trace of rest.
                Hurry on your horse and away from the fort, the flying bird faster,
                Until I saw my father's mare at the entrance to the Jagei gorge,
                Until I saw my father's mare, and Kamal rode on it ...
                And barely made out her white eye, he cocked the trigger and pulled.
                He fired once, and fired two, and a bullet whistled into the bushes ...
                "You shoot like a soldier," Kamal said, "show me how you drive."
                From end to end along the gorge Jagei, a flock of demons of dust rose,
                The black flew like a young deer, but the mare rode like a chamois.
                The crow bitten the mouthpiece with his teeth, the crow breathed harder,
                But the mare played with a bridle like a beauty with her glove.
                Here is a rock on the right and a rock on the left, thorns and piles of sand ...
                And the bolt of the gun clicked three times, but nowhere he saw the shooter.
                They drove the young moon from heaven, the sound of hooves tapped out at the dawn,
                The black one rushes like a wounded bull, and the mare flies like a doe.
                The black one stumbled over a pile of stones and rolled into a mountain stream,
                And Kamal restrained his mare and helped the rider to get up.
                And he knocked the pistol out of his hands: there was no place for struggle.
                “Too long,” he shouted, “you followed me,
                I was too merciful to you.
                There is no rock here for twenty miles, you are here
                I couldn't find a stump,
                Where, having dropped to one knee, you would not have been waiting for a shooter with a gun on sight.
                If I raised my hand with the reins, if I suddenly dropped it,
                The swift jackals would be feasting on a merry circle tonight.
                If I wanted to raise my head and tilt it slightly,
                This unfulfilled kite would have eaten so much that he could not
                wave. "
                The colonel's son answered easily: “It's good to feed the animals,
                But you should calculate that dinner is worth before inviting guests.
                And if a thousand sabers come to take my bones back.
                Perhaps the horse thief will not be able to pay the prices for a jackal dinner;
                Their horses will trample the bread on the vine, the grain will go to the soldiers,
                First the thatched roof will erupt, and then the cattle will be slaughtered.
                Well, if you don't care about the price, but brothers are in demand for food -
                Jackal and dog are one offspring - call jackals, dog.
                But if the price is high for you - people, and grain, and cattle -
                Give me back my father's mare first, we will find the way later. "
                Kamal grabbed him with his hand and stared.
                "Not a word about dogs," he said, "there is a dispute between a wolf and a wolf.
                Let there be food for me then, if I harm you,
                And you will joke death itself, there is no obstacle to you. "
                The colonel's son answered easily: “I keep the honor of the family.
                My father gives you a mare - a rider to match the horse. "
                The mare buried her master in the chest and gently caressed him.
                "There are two of us mighty," Kamal said, "but she is faithful to one ...
                So let the horse thief take away the gift, my reins with turquoise,
                And my stirrup is in silver, and my saddle, and my patterned chaprak. "
                The colonel's son grabbed a pistol and Kamala gave suddenly:
                "You took one from the enemy," he said, "this one is given to you by a friend."
                Kamal replied: “Gift for gift and blood for blood I will take,
                Your father sent his son for me, I will give his son to him. "
                And with a whistle he gives a sign to his son, and behold, like a deer from the rocks,
                His son fled to the heather of the valleys and, slender, stood beside him.
                "Here is your master," Kamal said, "he leads a squad of scouts,
                On his right hand, stand up and be his shield and brother.
                Until I or your death break these bonds,
                At home and in battle, as your life, keep an alliance with him.
                And you will eat the queen's bread, and remember who is her enemy,
                And for the peace of the country you will destroy my hearth.
                And you will be a faithful soldier, you will find your way,
                And maybe they will give you the rank, and they will give me a noose. "
                They looked into each other's eyes, and they did not know fear,
                And they swore a brotherly oath on salt and sour bread,
                And they took a brotherly oath, making a wide incision in the turf,
                On the blade, and on the handle of a knife, and on the name of the God of Miracles.
                And the boy Kamalov jumped on his horse, the colonel's son took the mare,
                And the two returned to Fort Buklo, from where one came.
                But they galloped slightly to the barracks, twenty sabers flashed point-blank,
                And everyone was happy to stain the blade with the blood of a mountain dweller ...
                "Back," shouted the colonel's son, "back and weapons off!"
                I was chasing a thief last night, I brought a friend that night. "

                Oh, the West is the West, the East is the East, and they will not come down from the ground,
                Until Heaven and Earth appear on the Last Judgment.
                But there is no East, and the West does not exist, that the tribe, the motherland, the family,
                If a strong man with a strong face to face at the edge of the earth gets up?

                ,
                1. Fat
                  Fat 12 February 2021 17: 22
                  +2
                  Original:
                  The Ballad of East and West
                  Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
                  Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God`s great Judgment Seat;
                  But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
                  When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!


                  Kamal is out with twenty men to raise the Border-side,
                  And he has lifted the Colonel`s mare that is the Colonel`s pride.
                  He has lifted her out of the stable-door between the dawn and the day,
                  And turned the calkins upon her feet, and ridden her far away.
                  Then up and spoke the Colonel`s son that led a troop of the Guides:
                  "Is there never a man of all my men can say where Kamal hides?"
                  Then up and spoke Mohammed Khan, the son of the Ressaldar:
                  "If ye know the track of the morning-mist, ye know where his pickets are.
                  At dusk he harries the Abazai - at dawn he is into Bonair,
                  But he must go by Fort Bukloh to his own place to fare,
                  So if ye gallop to Fort Bukloh as fast as a bird can fly,
                  By the favor of God ye may cut him off ere he win to the Tongue of Jagai.
                  But if he be past the Tongue of Jagai, right swiftly turn ye then,
                  For the length and the breadth of that grisly plain is sown with Kamal`s men.
                  There is rock to the left, and rock to the right, and low lean thorn between,
                  And ye may hear a breech-bolt snick where never a man is seen. "
                  The Colonel`s son has taken a horse, and a raw rough dun was he,
                  With the mouth of a bell and the heart of Hell
                  and the head of the gallows-tree.
                  The Colonel`s son to the Fort has won, they bid him stay to eat -
                  Who rides at the tail of a Border thief, he sits not long at his meat.
                  He`s up and away from Fort Bukloh as fast as he can fly,
                  Till he was aware of his father`s mare in the gut of the Tongue of Jagai,
                  Till he was aware of his father`s mare with Kamal upon her back,
                  And when he could spy the white of her eye, he made the pistol crack.
                  He has fired once, he has fired twice, but the whistling ball went wide.
                  "Ye shoot like a soldier," Kamal said. "Show now if ye can ride!"
                  It`s up and over the Tongue of Jagai, as blown dustdevils go,
                  The dun he fled like a stag of ten, but the mare like a barren doe.
                  The dun he leaned against the bit and slugged his head above,
                  But the red mare played with the snaffle-bars, as a maiden plays with a glove.
                  There was rock to the left and rock to the right, and low lean thorn between,
                  And thrice he heard a breech-bolt snick tho` never a man was seen.
                  They have ridden the low moon out of the sky, their hoofs drum up the dawn,
                  The dun he went like a wounded bull, but the mare like a new-roused fawn.
                  The dun he fell at a water-course - in a woeful heap fell he,
                  And Kamal has turned the red mare back, and pulled the rider free.
                  He has knocked the pistol out of his hand - small room was there to strive,
                  "" Twas only by favor of mine, "quoth he," ye rode so long alive:
                  There was not a rock for twenty mile, there was not a clump of tree,
                  But covered a man of my own men with his rifle cocked on his knee.
                  If I had raised my bridle-hand, as I have held it low,
                  The little jackals that flee so fast were feasting all in a row:
                  If I had bowed my head on my breast, as I have held it high,
                  The kite that whistles above us now were gorged till she could not fly. "
                  Lightly answered the Colonel`s son: “Do good to bird and beast,
                  But count who come for the broken meats before thou makest a feast.
                  If there should follow a thousand swords to carry my bones away,
                  Belike the price of a jackal`s meal were more than a thief could pay.
                  They will feed their horse on the standing crop,
                  their men on the garnered grain,
                  The thatch of the byres will serve their fires when all the cattle are slain.
                  But if thou thinkest the price be fair, - thy brethren wait to sup,
                  The hound is kin to the jackal-spawn, - howl, dog, and call them up!
                  And if thou thinkest the price be high, in steer and gear and stack,
                  Give me my father`s mare again, and I`ll fight my own way back! "
                  Kamal has gripped him by the hand and set him upon his feet.
                  "No talk shall be of dogs," said he, "when wolf and gray wolf meet.
                  May I eat dirt if thou hast hurt of me in deed or breath;
                  What dam of lances brought thee forth to jest at the dawn with Death? "
                  Lightly answered the Colonel`s son: “I hold by the blood of my clan:
                  Take up the mare for my father`s gift - by God, she has carried a man! "
                  The red mare ran to the Colonel`s son, and nuzzled against his breast;
                  "We be two strong men," said Kamal then, "but she loveth the younger best.
                  So she shall go with a lifter`s dower, my turquoise-studded rein,
                  My `broidered saddle and saddle-cloth, and silver stirrups twain."
                  The Colonel`s son a pistol drew, and held it muzzle-end,
                  "Ye have taken the one from a foe," said he;
                  "Will ye take the mate from a friend?"
                  "A gift for a gift," said Kamal straight; "a limb for the risk of a limb.
                  Thy father has sent his son to me, I`ll send my son to him! "
                  With that he whistled his only son, that dropped from a mountain-crest -
                  He trod the ling like a buck in spring, and he looked like a lance in rest.
                  "Now here is thy master," Kamal said, "who leads a troop of the Guides,
                  And thou must ride at his left side as shield on shoulder rides.
                  Till Death or I cut loose the tie, at camp and board and bed,
                  Thy life is his - thy fate it is to guard him with thy head.
                  So, thou must eat the White Queen`s meat, and all her foes are thine,
                  And thou must harry thy father`s hold for the peace of the Border-line,
                  And thou must make a trooper tough and hack thy way to power -
                  Belike they will raise thee to Ressaldar when I am hanged in Peshawur! "

                  They have looked each other between the eyes, and there they found no fault,
                  They have taken the Oath of the Brother-in-Blood on leavened bread and salt:
                  They have taken the Oath of the Brother-in-Blood on fire and fresh-cut sod,
                  On the hilt and the haft of the Khyber knife, and the Wondrous Names of God.
                  The Colonel`s son he rides the mare and Kamal`s boy the dun,
                  And two have come back to Fort Bukloh where there went forth but one.
                  And when they drew to the Quarter-Guard, full twenty swords flew clear -
                  There was not a man but carried his feud with the blood of the mountaineer.
                  "Ha` done! Ha` done!" said the Colonel`s son.
                  “Put up the steel at your sides!
                  Last night ye had struck at a Border thief -
                  to-night `tis a man of the Guides!"

                  Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
                  Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God`s great Judgment Seat;
                  But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
                  When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!
            2. kalibr
              12 February 2021 17: 45
              +3
              Quote: Trilobite Master
              I think we won't be able to convince each other of something.

              The thing is, dear, Mikhail, that I just don't want to convince you of anything. That would be rash on my part, to say the least. Just one of the options for the development of one of the known bifurcation points. By the way, on the basis of just such a turn of events the history of Russia is built in my novel "God the Creator" Book One: "Lost on the Highway". For you, this is just another mind game, nothing more.
              1. Trilobite Master
                Trilobite Master 12 February 2021 19: 39
                +4
                Quote: kalibr
                I just don't want to convince you of anything.

                Although just you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, could try. I am not from the category of stubborn, ready to cling to my opinion contrary to facts and logic in the style of "this cannot be, because this can never be" smile
                By the way, I noticed a long time ago that some topics for discussion arise in pairs. I didn’t come across any thoughts about an alternative path of Russia depending on Vladimir’s decision to be baptized according to the Orthodox rite; I didn’t come across for a relatively long time. And then suddenly a video was released on the "Savromat" YouTube channel (an interesting channel, by the way), in which the author discusses just this and accuses Vladimir of a mistake, they say it was necessary to choose Islam. And now you are with the same criticism ... No, it's true, some thoughts, apparently, hover in some kind of ether and are absorbed by the minds at the same time. smile
                At one time I did not give up the opportunity to practice in alternate history, but I quickly got bored. It is much more interesting to reconstruct the real events of the past, and this is actually closer to me in my specialty - collecting facts, constructing versions, linking them together, checking, and presenting.
                It is absolutely clear to me why it was Eastern Christianity that triumphed in Russia. I do not see any other alternative, and the point here, of course, is not in the choice of Vladimir, because, in my opinion, he simply did not have any choice.
                1. Fat
                  Fat 13 February 2021 01: 28
                  +1
                  It is absolutely clear to me why it was Eastern Christianity that triumphed in Russia. I do not see any other alternative, and the point here, of course, is not in the choice of Vladimir, because, in my opinion, he simply did not have any choice.

                  hi Like this! I thought about it for a long time. Yu. Nikitin leafed through ... You are right - there was practically no choice.
                  "And in that tower, there is no move to anyone ..." There was a global task - the rejection of the "ladder inheritance". Only Christianity could give it. Constantinople was closer to Rome. In the end, however, this political move did little good for the country.
                  And the truth - there was nothing to choose at that time. recourse
                  1. Trilobite Master
                    Trilobite Master 13 February 2021 10: 59
                    +2
                    Quote: Thick
                    There was a global task - the rejection of the "ladder of inheritance".

                    Yes, there was no such task, as if ... smile For the first time, a serious attempt to switch to the principle of inheritance by the right of birthright was made already under Vasily Dmitrievich, but this is already the XNUMXth century, and even then everything turned into a great strife.
                    Quote: Thick
                    In the end, however, this political move did little good for the country.

                    Why "little good"? Excellent results for me. A huge leap forward in development across the board. At the beginning of Vladimir's reign, Russia was still an archaic barbaric early feudal state, by the end of Yaroslav's reign it was a fully developed strong state, not much behind the rest of Europe. France (the most developed European power at that time), for example, took almost half a millennium to travel this path - from the first Merovingians to Charlemagne.
                2. Korsar4
                  Korsar4 14 February 2021 17: 14
                  +2
                  I also noticed that there is a law of paired cases, a variation of it - paired encounters.

                  Why dont know. But it often works.
  • Fat
    Fat 12 February 2021 17: 10
    +2
    Vyacheslav Olegovich. Thanks. Very good article. I put it on a note. Although it's not just about clothes, it's more about the "style" of wearing it and much related to it. Great. IMHO.
    1. kalibr
      12 February 2021 17: 42
      +1
      Thank you, Andrey Borisovich! The ballad is my favorite piece. I know it by heart, and I used to read it to students at lectures on cultural studies. Kipling was a wise man!
      1. Fat
        Fat 12 February 2021 18: 39
        +1
        Very wise, straightforward, almost like a Russian! For which I really appreciate. The "primary" psychotype of the classic on a number of tests ... Pioneer (or pioneer laughing )
        Dust, dust, dust ... Kipling is incomparable, he is not aggressive, but he believes in "purpose" and this very much echoes in "clothes", which combined a lot of the "powerful" of that world recourse
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 12 February 2021 21: 37
    0
    With the interweaving of religious dogmas in the clothes of ancient states and especially their monarchs, sometimes it leads to incidents and blunders - in one sentence prohibitions on beauty are announced, therefore decorations and excesses are supposedly alien to the clergy, for Jesus did not acquire the golden calf according to their own words and despised, which is described in detail in their holy writings. BUT at the same time and in the same sentence are cited as an example-tadam-luxurious embroidered with stones and gold garments and the decoration of temples in which they pray to their teacher, who despised excesses and luxury, I'm talking about Jesus. The contradictions are straight with jambs of the rod. It is not clear, however request
  • Sergey Sfiedu
    Sergey Sfiedu 21 March 2021 22: 11
    0
    An immense topic. The Eastern Roman Empire existed for 1000 years, and no matter how conservative its inhabitants were, the clothes could not help but change.
    Here is a Byzantine helmet from the Armory, presumably 13-14 century


    and a medal depicting John Palaeologus