Military Review

The emergence of a rocket and space propulsion holding in Russia is approaching

111
The emergence of a rocket and space propulsion holding in Russia is approaching

The emergence of a single holding is approaching, which will include enterprises of the rocket and space industry specializing in engine building. Thus, soon the leading enterprises creating rocket engines will become parts of a single structure.


This was stated by Igor Arbuzov, general director of the Energomash research and production association, which is part of the Roscosmos state corporation, in an interview published on the corporation's official website.

He said that there was only one step left before the emergence of a rocket and space engine building holding in Russia. This step should be the transfer of shares of the design bureau of chemical engineering named after A. M. Isaev to the trust management of NPO Energomash, which should take place within the next few months.

Immediately after this happens, all the leading rocket-building enterprises in Russia working on the creation of engines will be united into a single structure.

NPO Energomash will become the parent enterprise of the newly formed holding. This research and production association is considered one of the world's largest enterprises for the production of liquid-propellant engines for launch vehicles for the space industry. At the same time, despite the sanctions, it continues to supply the United States with the RD-180 and RD-181 rocket engines, and this is far from the only area of ​​activity of NPO Energomash.
Photos used:
GK "Roskosmos"
111 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. sergo1914
    sergo1914 31 January 2021 13: 26
    +16
    Whose child has come of age? Well, what would take the post of general manager.
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 31 January 2021 13: 36
      +10
      Everything. We decided to finally bury the industry. The United States and China are two corps ahead, Europe, India, Japan are already comparable to us, South Korea is on the verge of entering an elite club, Turkey is just about, Israel is going its own way as usual.
      The USSR understood that without COMPETITION impossible leadership. For each project there were at least 2-3 performers, each order was pulled out by the teeth. We now have completely monopolies that needlessly hit a finger to get a contract.
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 13: 56
        -13%
        Well, nonsense)))

        All of the above countries are at least 30 years behind us, have not yet achieved what the Soviet Union achieved by the 80s)))
        What can they boast about?
        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 31 January 2021 14: 10
          +5
          Quote: Lord of the Sith
          reached the Soviet Union by the 80s

          And when will Russia reach what the USSR was in the 80s? When will it catch up in the number of launches? When will there be a space station? When will reusable ships be realized? When will we return to deep space?
          Of course, he is proud of the successes of a country that does not exist. We are Russia, not the USSR. I'm more interested in what will happen in 5 years, and not what it was 30 years ago.

          Statistics for 1988. There are 94 launches, 52 weeks in a year.
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 1 February 2021 13: 25
            +2
            I'm more interested in what will happen in 5 years
            orbital lifts, launch trampolines and songs on Instagram, accompanied by "Let's go" vodka, request one famous vocalist-general ... :) This is our destiny in the second decade of the 21st century!
        2. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 14: 12
          -1
          Some can already boast of reusable carriers with engines of their own design.
          1. Lord of the Sith
            Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 14: 17
            -11%
            Yeah, and a huge, expensive pussy, which immediately explodes at the start, and in the development of which billions have been added)))
            Here are their developments))
            And try to argue that this is not so, only with facts and evidence.
            What have they achieved that we did not achieve many years ago?
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 14: 38
              +3
              Quote: Lord of the Sith
              Yeah, and a huge, expensive pussy


              Do you have complexes about this? See a psychoanalyst.
              1. Lord of the Sith
                Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 14: 48
                -5
                The chocolate howling eye may have complexes, but not tactical or strategic, but dibilistic)))

                Which is not able to distinguish psychoanalysis from psychiatry and from psychology)))

                In short, Sklifosofsky. You are wrong, and I will communicate with you only exclusively on the topic.

                Anything to say about the space industry of planet Earth? With numbers, analytics sampled by year for the next 40 years?
                Here he gave the task. Forward and with the song)))
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 14: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: Lord of the Sith
                  In short, Sklifosofsky. You are wrong, and I will communicate with you only exclusively on the topic.


                  It's good that you took the pills.

                  Quote: Lord of the Sith
                  Anything to say about the space industry of planet Earth?


                  Yes. Everything is in order with her, it is developing at an unprecedented pace.
                  1. Lord of the Sith
                    Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 15: 28
                    -5
                    It's good that you took the pills.

                    My topic is not pills, but space.

                    And you slept out of the blue, that a drug addict, and you sit on wheels))

                    What, nothing to say? So why be smart? Of course, I understand that they are teasing you in the fool, and they feed you with pills so that you fly into space like Gagarin, but without a launch vehicle and a spacesuit.

                    Tell me the facts, analysis and statistics for all countries, what you know about space over the past 40 years.
                    Then let's talk.
                    1. Intruder
                      Intruder 1 February 2021 13: 33
                      -1
                      Tell me the facts, analysis and statistics for all countries, what you know about space over the past 40 years.
                      and what, it’s not visible ??? What and whose devices will land on Mars in February ??? who has reusable first steps landing on a sea platform, or is it a lie from the State Department ... ??? And whose orbital station dangles overhead and participation in it is dominant for someone there, well ..., even before the heap of the satellite segment, from personal communications (StarLink), by the way, they already enter Europe (Britain), to the number of launches, for the peaceful space CubSat (s) everyones there ...!
                      1. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 1 February 2021 13: 52
                        -1
                        A young man, the ISS, the most ambitious project of mankind was built in Russia, Zarya and Zvezda is the beginning of her life.

                        StarLink is needed for global espionage, nothing more.
                        And so the project was repeatedly on the verge of collapse.

                        And all sorts of things there?
                      2. Intruder
                        Intruder 1 February 2021 14: 07
                        -1
                        StarLink is needed for global espionage, nothing more.
                        And so the project was repeatedly on the verge of collapse.
                        in what department are such primitive training manuals issued !? Advertisers and social networks are no less leaking and selling data on demand, what is it for ...!? Plus banks and other structures up to biometrics ..., and what, who does this prevent from using the network and their services online 24/7! ?
                        A young man, the ISS, the most ambitious project of mankind was built in Russia, Zarya and Zvezda is the beginning of her life.
                        and only some part ??? Young, this is past - my years, my wealth .., and the beard and head are gray, unfortunately for the young one no longer pulls! laughing
                        Everyone, this class: CubSat (s), even the military brought out another sample of "'these small and terribly cheap" at the next StarLink launch last week!
                      3. Sands Careers General
                        Sands Careers General 1 February 2021 15: 35
                        +1
                        A gray beard and gray hair does not mean a sign of intelligence in the head.
                        I also have a head and a gray beard.
                        There is nothing to be proud of.

                        Just answer my clearly posed questions above.

                        Do you know why this project, StarLink?

                        Do you know why the Yankees sponsored the ISS, gave billions to Russia?
                        Why did the Yankees create DOS, but they did not succeed?
                        Why can I throw a lot.

                        Why did the Soviet Union succeed in space technology, but the Yankees did not.

                        And I don’t need to write a stream of subconsciousness. And that feeling, as if a bot is writing, with the vocabulary of Ellochka the Cannibal)))
                      4. Intruder
                        Intruder 1 February 2021 16: 46
                        0
                        Do you know why this project, StarLink?
                        hmm ..., and they personally reported to you about the purpose of the project !? Or are we, we read different sites !? wink A public company, their main purpose is written ..., I mean - providing remote access ..., everything else from the heading: "... when a person communicates with God, this is prayer, and when God is with a person ... " repeat
                        Do you know why the Yankees sponsored the ISS, gave billions to Russia?
                        Why did the Yankees create DOS, but they did not succeed?
                        have gone so far, dear ..., I briefly threw you above what the Yankees have already done with partners !? And they, kanalya, did it, to our regret ... and it works ... by the way, like the project with the ISS !? You can argue and look for hidden meanings all your life, but I still don't see orbital stations and rovers near Roscosmos ??? yes, and automatic interplanetary stations on other planets and other complexes, even in spite of the Soviet backlog and other inherited drugs, for 30 years already !?
                        Why did the Soviet Union succeed in space technology, but the Yankees did not.
                        that is, for the Union:
                        - the cosmonauts entered the natural satellite of the Earth;
                        - landed rovers on Mars;
                        - sent probes abroad of the Solar;
                        - already in the 21st century, they mastered the return of the first stages of the launch vehicle with a soft landing, without the use of parachute systems;
                        - and have been exploiting serial Burans for more than a quarter of a century !?
                        Write, please :))), something specific about these historical facts ...
                        Sincerely,
                      5. maratkoRuEkb
                        maratkoRuEkb 3 February 2021 13: 55
                        0
                        I'll insert my five cents:
                        - here you say that NASA is studying Mars, but we actively studied Venus. And what?
                        - Well, you say the USSR launched a lot of rockets, but right now, not enough. And what? NASA has also started to run a little. (in the US, on forums, they sit and groan in the same way, "but before America did so many launches, but now it's a shame and that's all") you are all the same hysterics.
                        https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/9qce66/the_space_race_is_dominated_by_new_contenders_my/
                        - NASA on the moon? well, this is a question requiring discussion. So-so argument.
                        - reusable stages - well, Musk recently started to get something, promised to reduce the cost of launches by 10 times, but only right now he approached the price of Protons
                        here is an analysis of http://gadgets-news.ru/skolko-stoyat-orbitalnye-polety/
                        - Starlink project funded by the Pentagon, Musk is not an altruist.
                        https://aftershock.news/?q=node/837014&full
                        - Well, NASA's Shuttles and Cho were exploited? They were closed because of the high launch price. And we launched cheap rockets and kept our eyes out. The market decided that Shuttles are expensive.
                        - Well, foreshadowing all sorts of attacks on today's Russia, I will say that if we did not have the collapse of the USSR, the nineties, sanctions, and if we were allowed to develop calmly, then we would live better than others.
                        - yes, plus the US has a printing press, plus the US dollar is the world currency, so they have more opportunities and nothing to whine. Unleash the West, they would have soaked us all, they are not our friends, there is nothing to look at them.
                      6. Intruder
                        Intruder 3 February 2021 15: 10
                        +1
                        here you say that NASA is studying Mars, but we actively studied Venus. And what?
                        how long does it take to study Venus in the Union or maybe in the Russian Federation repeat , and in comparison with Mars in the Yankees to this day !? Suggest or Google (ohm) yourself will use ??? wink
                        - Well, you say the USSR launched a lot of rockets, but right now, not enough. And what? NASA has also started to run a little. (in the US, on forums, they sit and groan in the same way, "but before America did so many launches, but now it's a shame and that's all") you are all the same hysterics.
                        about hysterics, mutually ... hi Yes, not "che", but probably all the same - what !? Less than the Russian Federation today, or how ???, but how to find these public figures, see above !!!
                        - NASA on the moon? well, this is a question requiring discussion. So-so argument.
                        in the sense and the Earth is flat or what ... ??? Even the hated Chinese to many beyond the Ocean and here, confirmed both the roller on the ground with traces and the remaining landing modules ... tongue
                        reusable stages - well, Musk has recently begun to work out something, he promised to reduce the cost of launches by 10 times, but just now he approached the price of Protons
                        and others have analogs, which have recently begun to land on jet thrust and a sea platform ??? we compare ... And in comparison with the price of the "Proton" launch vehicle, well, there is such a thing, although for new technologies this is a completely normal and expected result ...
                        well operated by NASA Shuttles and Cho? They were closed because of the high launch price. And we launched cheap rockets and kept our eyes out. The market decided that Shuttles are expensive.
                        such dust that they rushed to catch up with the "Buran" !? and caught up in automatic mode, though, but there was collapse and other unpleasant things, already in the history of that country !!!
                        yes, plus the US has a printing press, plus the US dollar is the world currency, so they have more opportunities and nothing to whine. Unleash the West, they would have soaked us all, they are not our friends, there is nothing to look at them.
                        well ... then why use American technologies (up to culture and clothing ... :)))) implemented in China, or in Taiwan and Singapore !? (I hope it is clear to which area I have now created a bias, everyone carries a sample of these technologies in their pocket and still looks at them ... wiggling their fingers ... laughing )! And about the printed, banal institution (they have it, not ours ...), right ...?
                      7. maratkoRuEkb
                        maratkoRuEkb 5 February 2021 13: 04
                        +1
                        -"about hysterics, mutually ... hi Yes, not" che ", but probably all the same - what !? Less than the Russian Federation today, or how ???, but how to find these public figures, look above !!!" - Explain what you wanted to say by that?
                        - "in the sense that the Earth is flat or something ... ??? Even the hated Chinese to many beyond the Ocean and here, confirmed the roller on the ground with traces and the remaining landing modules ... tongue" - we will not touch the topic at all, otherwise we will have to discuss brown soil, not gray))
                        - "and others have analogues, which have recently begun to land on jet thrust and a sea platform ??? we are comparing ... And in comparison with the price of the Proton launch vehicle, well, there is such a thing, although for new technologies it is quite normal and Expected Result..." - well, he planted, well, returned the step and what has changed? 10 years planting, 10 years expensive planting, his entire launch project survives only thanks to military orders that are paid at an inflated price, this is not market competition. It is largely uncompetitive if only 10 years later it approached the price of Proton. Only hype and PR.
                        - "such dust that they rushed to catch up with" Buran "!? and caught up in automatic mode it is true, but there was collapse and other unpleasant things, already in the history of that country !!!" - Buran was also terribly expensive, that's why they closed it, the project was more politically motivated and ideologically motivated.
                        - "well ... then why use American technologies (up to culture and clothing ... :)))) implemented in China, or in Taiwan and Singapore !? (I hope it is clear to which area I have created a bias, everyone wears there is a sample of these technologies in his pocket and still looks at them ... wiggling his fingers ... " - and who said that we do not have a market economy right now ?? the whole world buys microelectronics in Asia and that now they should all think and refuse?
                        - and what are you talking about Starlink so shyly shut up? Don't you like the Pentagon project now? maybe it's a shame that they were so drowned for him and poked jackets at them? ))
                      8. Intruder
                        Intruder 5 February 2021 21: 07
                        0
                        - and what are you talking about Starlink so shyly shut up? Don't you like the Pentagon project now? maybe it's a shame that they were so drowned for him and poked jackets at them? ))
                        by no means wink and you know why !? I have a set of them at home, it's worth laughing laughing , "Vatnikov" did not poke (this is your fantasy or an attempt at trolling, I don’t even know ...) and I’m not going to, and I don’t even advise you ...
                      9. maratkoRuEkb
                        maratkoRuEkb 8 February 2021 13: 25
                        0
                        here is a selection of some of your comments:

                        K - I'm more interested in what will happen in 5 years
                        The answer is orbital lifts, launch trampolines and songs on Instagram, accompanied by vodka "Let's go", the request of a famous vocalist-general ... :) This is our destiny in the second decade of the 21st century!
                        (here is an understatement of Russia's achievements)

                        K - Tell me the facts, analysis and statistics for all countries, what you know about space over the past 40 years.
                        The answer is - why can't you see it ??? What and whose devices will land on Mars in February ??? who has reusable first steps landing on a sea platform, or is it a lie from the State Department ... ??? And whose orbital station dangles overhead and participation in it is dominant for someone there, well ..., even before the heap of the satellite segment, from personal communications (StarLink), by the way, they already enter Europe (Britain), to the number of launches, for the peaceful space CubSat (s) everyones there ...!
                        (here is the protrusion of the achievements of the west)

                        K - StarLink is needed for global espionage, nothing more. And so the project was repeatedly on the verge of collapse.
                        The answer is - in what department are such primitive training manuals issued !? Advertisers and social networks are no less leaking and selling data on demand, what is it for ...!? Plus banks and other structures up to biometrics ... and what, who does this prevent from using the network and their services online 24/7! ?
                        (here you write about the manuals and the management for which the commentator works)

                        K - Young man, ISS, the most ambitious project of mankind was built in Russia, Zarya and Zvezda is the beginning of her life.
                        The answer is - and only what part ??? Young, this is past - my years, my wealth .., and the beard and head are gray, unfortunately for the young one no longer pulls! laughing
                        Everyone, this class: CubSat (s), even the military brought out another sample of "'these small and terribly cheap" at the next StarLink launch last week!
                        (here comes StarLink bulging again, wow)

                        K - Do you know why this project, StarLink?
                        The answer is - hmm ..., and they personally reported to you about the purpose of the project !? Or are we, we read different sites !? wink Public company, their main purpose is written ..., I mean - providing remote access ..., everything else from the heading: "... when a person communicates with God, this is prayer, and when God is with a person .. . "feel
                        (well, here you say that they are only for remote access, and everything else is fiction)

                        And here is what the American publications and the American military say:
                        “SpaceX has been a great industry partner for us,” Roper said. "They are very excited and we are happy to learn more about their companions during the demonstration."
                        The exercise will reportedly include the shootdown of a UAV and a cruise missile, and will take place at several different sites, including Yuma Marine Base in Arizona and Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.
                        “The live-fire exercise will be part of a larger test of the Advanced Combat Management System (ABMS), a new communications ecosystem designed to provide joint domain-wide command and control (JADC2) that allows US forces and their allies to coordinate military operations in real time and across all types of operations. - sea, land, air, space and cyberspace. The system was first tested in December 2019 with conflicting results.
                        Air Force magazine quoted Roper as saying that he wants the latest test to be at least 50-50 between success and failure to enable developers to better deal with the challenges of the new satellite system. During a smaller test of the system last month, Starlink satellites connected to the AC-130 combat aircraft. "
                        To that end, this month, General John Raymond, head of space operations for the newly formed US Space Force and commander of the US Space Command, signed the Corporate Satellite Communications Initiative (SATCOM). It will "enhance integration between the military and the private sector" and "enable the military to be able to move between their networks and terminals by alternating resources with little or no disruption."

                        so it turns out that the project was financed by the military, and so that no one smelled anything, they let the dust in their eyes that this is a visionary project from Ilon himself that he loves everyone so much and cares that you have access to the Internet from anywhere in the world. Musk works for the military, a doll, a talking head. I wonder in what other areas do they cooperate so well? maybe launching reusable rockets isn't that easy either? maybe they also let the dust in your eyes? Is there something to think about, right?
  • antivirus
    antivirus 31 January 2021 22: 25
    0
    one clarification - not about 10 pieces of 100VI each
    AND ABOUT ADVANCED DEVELOPMENTS IN THE SPACE INDUSTRIES - THEY WERE GROWED IN INCUBATORS FOR 40 YEARS, BEFORE THE COLLAPSE OF THE USSR, FOR TRANSFER TO THE DR.
    the technical level of janitors and locksmiths-toolmakers and assemblers and teachers and train drivers of locomotives was increased centrally to increase the general level, in the middle of culture, the transfer was interrupted. the castes have withdrawn into themselves. corporations that can do their own thing. what is not, they buy over the hill. and the level of production relations in the country is not growing - they keep their shells on the market, however.
  • Snusmumrik
    Snusmumrik 31 January 2021 15: 31
    +4
    "Ivan Vasilievich, sometimes when you speak, I have the impression that you are delusional."
  • Lexus
    Lexus 31 January 2021 14: 02
    +10
    It takes brains to build engines. Stupidly changing signs is incomparably easier.
  • Civil
    Civil 31 January 2021 14: 03
    +6
    The word "optimization" is omitted in the article, after which another achievement of the USSR ceases to function.
  • carstorm 11
    carstorm 11 31 January 2021 14: 07
    -6
    Who is this who competed in rocket engines in the USSR?))) What are two or three performers?))
    1. Doctor
      Doctor 31 January 2021 14: 52
      +10
      Who is this who competed in rocket engines in the USSR?))) What are two or three performers?))

      Khimki, Voronezh, Drepropetrovsk.
      Glushko, Gorokhov, Yangel.
  • Cosm22
    Cosm22 31 January 2021 14: 24
    +2
    It looks like it. The industry is buried.
    This is a very wrong decision.
    The example with Roskosmos teaches nothing. They created a monster and thought that the situation could be improved by shifting money from one pocket to another.
    As a result, the residents of Samara found themselves even under their own sanctions, and TsiKh, as it was in flight, is still sitting there.
    In China and the United States, the process is exactly the opposite.
  • Sasha Minakov
    Sasha Minakov 31 January 2021 14: 26
    -4
    Oh) Do you have a head? Or do we think only in slogans?
  • Cool but not Igor
    Cool but not Igor 31 January 2021 15: 23
    -5
    Because before the people could not even buy toilet paper while multiple design bureaus competed for the state. score. Why don't you mention this? Maybe today for Russia the correct and most productive way is to unite, you don't know for sure, but only reproduce your fears
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 31 January 2021 15: 40
      -8
      The problem is not that a merger of several enterprises is coming (moreover, successful and unprofitable productions will again heap and pull out one heap at the expense of others) into one structure.
      The problem is that this structure is STATE.
      That says it all. This is a sentence. Put it on the shelves, why?
      1. Volder
        Volder 31 January 2021 19: 50
        0
        Quote: Cosm22
        The problem is that this structure is STATE.
        That says it all. This is a sentence. Put it on the shelves, why?
        This is not a sentence. This is the hope for development. For when the market decides, then often he decides not very well. The privatization of the 90s proved to be ineffective. Therefore, Putin took up nationalization. Explanatory video on the topic:
    2. DymOk_v_dYmke
      DymOk_v_dYmke 31 January 2021 16: 54
      +2
      Quote: Cool but not Igor
      Because before the people could not even buy toilet paper while multiple design bureaus competed for the state. score.

      Exactly. Killing KB for toilet paper is the essence of capitalism in today's Russia.
      Someone gets rolls of dollar paper for the implementation of this path. hi
  • nobody75
    nobody75 31 January 2021 15: 34
    +3
    And who prevents you from competing within the holding?
    Sincerely
    1. Cosm22
      Cosm22 31 January 2021 15: 53
      -11%
      Competition within the state structure is completely ruled out.
      Structural subdivisions will bend only the "general line" of the holding and carry out the orders of the "party and government". Under the strictest control and with strict accountability.
      An analogue of BE-4 or Raptor will never appear in such a structure. Or a decent hydrogen generator, until there is permission from above.
      For the factories included in the holding are in fact deprived of their independence. Who will allow you to do something else, not prescribed in the charter, to invent something at your own peril and risk, i.e. squander public funds?
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 31 January 2021 16: 01
        +5
        You write something like that .... interesting
        Who will allow you to do something else that is not prescribed in the charter

        You open the charter of any modern joint-stock company - and you will be very surprised. There you can also find "the organization of gambling activities" ... So it is difficult to catch a plant in illegal activities. And any modern plant has long been overgrown with a network of small ooos, affiliated with the management.
        An analogue of BE-4 or Raptor will never appear in such a structure. Or a decent hydrogen generator

        Have you heard about the Energia launch vehicle?
        Structural subdivisions will bend only the "general line" of the holding and carry out the orders of the "party and government". Under the strictest control and with strict accountability.

        Do you understand anything in RAS? Nobody will transfer JSC as part of the holding to the budgetary chart of accounts with "strict reporting". All JSC reporting is spelled out in the law.
        Sincerely
        1. Cosm22
          Cosm22 31 January 2021 16: 16
          -6
          I see that you have not grasped my train of thought at all. Yes, I put it figuratively. But this is for brevity.
          The main message is that the state structure will never overcome a private trader in a particular area.
          I have already cited an analogy: in 2015, a monster is being created in Russia - Roscosmos. Tasks? Everything! Open Wiki:
          "The main activities of the corporation are: manned astronautics, planetary exploration, the study of the sun, astrophysics and the creation of artificial earth satellites. One of the important directions of the corporation is the development of tourism, both on earth and in space."
          A sort of Shvets, and a reaper, and a gamer on the pipe. Handyman. Putting all the space stuff in his pocket.
          At almost the same time, a diametrically opposite process was launched in the United States. In 2010, Obama signed a program to create commercial manned spacecraft for the ISS, although the COTS program was announced back in 2006. At the same time, Obama, on the recommendations of the Augustine Commission, decides to give the low orbit at the mercy of private companies. This decision changed the algorithm of NASA's work, but it opened up the broadest prospects for private traders. They had an incentive because all the technology they created was now their property.
          It was from that moment on that RK lost to Musk, a little-known private trader already then. Why?
          Because the work of a state-owned company will NEVER be as effective as the work of a startup.
          The state-owned company is fed from the state budget. By and large, she doesn't give a damn about the final result or the specific time frame. This, incidentally, applies not only to Roscosmos, but absolutely to the same extent for NASA. Regardless of the concrete results, these state-owned companies will still receive money. Well, they'll chide a little, scold. Funding will be slightly cut in the worst case scenario. That's all. Sometimes it even turns out to earn extra money on the side, for example, to sell engines or to be engaged in transportation to the ISS, getting lemons of greenery. It is a pity that such a golden time was too short.
          A startup is a different matter. It has only two outcomes: either to take off quickly, become a successful company, or quickly go bankrupt and go bankrupt. The third is not given, he does not feed from the state trough. Every cent for development and production comes from its own pocket. Therefore, the staff is recruited according to a different principle. And technologies are developed only the most modern, giving the maximum return in a short time. And the attitude to work there is different, and the requirements are higher.
          How do you order the Republic of Kazakhstan to compete with the same Mask under the same conditions? If only with SpaceX ...
          There is also Rocket Lab ... Blue Origin ... Orbital ATK ... Virgin Orbit ... But there are also French, Japanese, Chinese private traders ... And everyone is eager for LEO. So it will be necessary to close space in near space only within the country.
          As for deep space, the ROK is simply pointless to compete there with NASA (and with China). It is trite because of the disparate budgets. Now, plus the sanctions are dragging down.
          The picture will be absolutely similar here. Once again: no one will ever allow independent development. Moreover, such developments will only be prosecuted. Such a monster is just an excuse to knock out more money for yourself. People are tormented by endless approvals, permits, regulations, meetings ... Where can you think about engines ... Is it a startup or a simple plant - what's the difference? ..
          1. nobody75
            nobody75 31 January 2021 16: 23
            0
            Because the work of a state-owned company will NEVER be as effective as the work of a startup.

            Have you ever studied economics? What is a "startup" and do you know why you need it? Does the word "securitization" mean anything to you? Have you heard about perpetual funds? It is these very funds with their derivatives that do not allow the "startup" to "quickly" go bankrupt ...
            And Volkswagen has never been state-owned?
            You were not told about the Mitsui family at the lectures?
            Sincerely
            1. Cosm22
              Cosm22 31 January 2021 16: 44
              -4
              Let's not drag out the song about the money of the State Department, NASA, Pentagon and other crap. This is not for me. This is to a different audience.
              But even if we assume that some NASA there financed the Spaces 100%, what difference does that make?
              What?
              The United States has chosen the absolutely correct tactic of downsizing in the space field. Part of the tasks is assigned to NASA, part - to other (including private) companies. No one there drags the entire blanket over, no one knocks all the factories into one heap in the naive hope that this will immediately solve all the problems. Will not decide. It will only make it worse.
              On the example of the Samarans, this is perfectly visible.
              It is incomprehensible to the mind - an enterprise, due to which Russia only keeps on the third place in launches, because only the Unions fly, not only US sanctions, but also the sanctions of Roscosmos are spreading rot.
              The overall result of the policy pursued in the United States and in Russia is known - the lone Musk has long ago laid the mighty state-owned Roscosmos on its shoulder.
              1. nobody75
                nobody75 31 January 2021 19: 44
                0
                Find in my comments the words "State Department", "Nasa" ... Did it work?
                The United States has chosen the absolutely correct tactics of downsizing in the space field.

                How did you miss Goldman Sachs, a specialist like you ?! You would have developed such a business model for them! As soon as they graduate from school ...
                Sincerely
                1. Leon68
                  Leon68 31 January 2021 23: 04
                  0
                  Quote: nobody75
                  How did you miss a specialist like Goldman Sachs ?!

                  good
            2. antivirus
              antivirus 31 January 2021 22: 34
              0
              maybe everything is simpler - the "KGB" bent "independent developers" - "under strict control" and not a step to the side. leakage of "stupid ideas not to allow more to the West-East. Let them build hypersound. Military discipline. Not for a leap forward - to preserve their ideas in the country."

              and Mars is to Efremov and Solaris and SL.
              the prose of life is to stop dreaming "while space ships are sailing" and build the needs of the future ...
          2. spectr
            spectr 1 February 2021 10: 26
            +1
            Moreover, such developments will only be prosecuted.

            Processes are already underway.
            "Scientists received sentences for transferring Russian technologies to China."

            “The court found that after leaving UEC-Saturn, Vinogradov pledged to create a full precision casting process in the interests of the Chinese institute. At the same time, he knew that the parts of interest to the Chinese side were used in the creation of weapons, military equipment and delivery vehicles for weapons of mass destruction. Subsequently, Vinogradov attracted Krasilnikov, who had recently resigned from the plant, as an accomplice. "
    2. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 16: 10
      -3
      Quote: nobody75
      And who prevents you from competing within the holding?


      Why does the holding's management need it?
      1. nobody75
        nobody75 31 January 2021 16: 13
        +1
        To reduce the cash flow discount when determining the value of assets.
        In the management of the holding "finonsists" sit.
        Sincerely
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 16: 13
          -1
          Your answer is a meaningless collection of words.
          1. nobody75
            nobody75 31 January 2021 16: 17
            +2
            I wrote to you in Russian above! If there is no competition within the holding, its shares are priced at a discount. And shares are the subject of collateral when receiving a loan. No funding - no government order. It's a shame, young man, not to know basic things ...
            Sincerely
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 16: 18
              -3
              About "there is no state order" you have done funny. Burn some more.
              1. nobody75
                nobody75 31 January 2021 19: 45
                0
                Finish school and read about the discounted cash flow method ...
                Sincerely
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 19: 48
                  -2
                  To do this, you need to graduate from the physics department of Moscow State University, no less.
                  1. nobody75
                    nobody75 31 January 2021 19: 50
                    +1
                    What does this have to do with the way of assessing the business and the value of shares?
                    Sincerely
                  2. The eye of the crying
                    The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 19: 51
                    -3
                    Well, you need it.
                  3. nobody75
                    nobody75 31 January 2021 19: 52
                    +1
                    Didn't you confuse me with anyone? Are you not interested in holdings?
                    Sincerely
  • Blackmokona
    Blackmokona 31 January 2021 16: 51
    -1
    The fact that one of the engine manufacturers was put in charge of the holding. An independent management structure has not been created. Thus, he will simply stifle all not his own development.
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 19: 45
      0
      For what reason? They are now his ...
      Sincerely
      1. slipped
        slipped 1 February 2021 03: 24
        -2
        Quote: nobody75
        For what reason? They are now his ...
        Sincerely


        Apparently, some at the forum will be better if Russia sprays its not so large budgetary funds into a certain amount of engines that are not needed by anyone, but competing with each other, as it was before. laughing But no, it will not work - the number of promising launch vehicles for the next decade is known and what engines will be on them too.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 1 February 2021 08: 26
          -2
          No, they should have been fighting for a shrinking market in a competitive struggle, and not just the state will appoint the winner's fovarite
          1. slipped
            slipped 1 February 2021 10: 32
            -1
            Quote: BlackMokona
            No, they should have been fighting for a shrinking market in a competitive struggle, and not just the state will appoint the winner's fovarite


            Enough fighting and fighting laughing ... Each company has competencies in certain issues and everyone will do what they do best. This is what they will use. And they are even already using it - NPO Energomash creates RD-171MV and RD-180MV, KBKhA - RD-0124MS, and methane RD-0177, RD-0169, Proton-PM - is switching to serial RD-191 and plans to start production of RD-191M. Everything is in business.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 1 February 2021 10: 44
              -2
              Well, now there are no battles and battles, the winner and the losers are appointed in the political games. Whoever licked better than F is the winner.
              1. slipped
                slipped 1 February 2021 12: 15
                -1
                Quote: BlackMokona
                Now, now there are no fights and battles, the winner and the losers.


                there are no winners or losers - everyone wins here and that's good. New media coming soon. I understand - it's not profitable for you, but somehow you are. laughing
      2. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 1 February 2021 08: 25
        -1
        Because there will not be enough orders for all enterprises. The Americans jumped off the ship, and ours cut space spending year after year.
        Also, the Holding is not a single corporation, thus other enterprises are still other enterprises with their own bosses, budget, and so on.
        Only decisions are now made by their competitor when communicating with the outside world
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 1 February 2021 13: 36
      0
      Thus, he will simply stifle all not his own development.
      another monopolist, however !?
  • Genry
    Genry 31 January 2021 15: 54
    +3
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    In the USSR, they understood that leadership is impossible without COMPETITION.

    What kind of competition was there in the USSR? The scientific base was scattered, each enterprise came up with its own technologies and did the same thing, but with multiple cost overruns.

    You have to compete with world manufacturers and your developments must be immediately extended to all Russian design bureaus and production facilities - that's why they are united into a holding.
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 16: 08
      -3
      Quote: Genry
      You have to compete with global manufacturers


      Compete in the global rocket engine market? Does he exist? smile
  • Papazen
    Papazen 31 January 2021 17: 06
    +3
    You contradict yourself. In the USSR, all enterprises of one industry were part of one ministry. That did not exclude competition.
    Competition is now provided by foreign enterprises, you actually wrote about this. Only something she does not help yet. Why is competition within the country better than with foreigners? But the fact that the work is constantly underfunded is a real problem. Only frostbitten liberals do not speak about this.
    The devil, as always, is in the details. It all depends on how everything will be arranged within the corporation. The goal of unification is important. If for the consolidation of resources for development and production, then it is beneficial. If for cutting, then vice versa. I personally do not know this, therefore I consider the categorical statements biased.
    After all, the UEC was assembled for the same principle, but they have recently made us more or less happy. Cadres are everything.
  • slipped
    slipped 31 January 2021 17: 19
    +3
    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Everything. We decided to finally bury the industry.


    Meanwhile, NPO Energomash carried out firing tests of the RD-171 MV liquid-propellant rocket engine designed for the Soyuz-5 rocket. The test program was completed in full. The tests were carried out as usual.



    The firing tests of the RD-191 rocket engine developed and manufactured by NPO Energomash for the Russian Angara rocket were also successfully and fully carried out.

    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    The USA and China are 2 corps ahead


    For engines - no.

    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Europe, India, Japan are already comparable to us


    Are they flying in their spaceships to the ISS? laughing

    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    South Korea on the verge of entering an elite club


    For ten years she created her 66 ts engine for a domestic rocket. It would be better for all these 10 years to continue flying on our RD-191 with 200 ts.

    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Turkey is just about


    Nothing at all.

    Quote: OgnennyiKotik
    Israel as usual goes its own way.


    Jews fly very rarely laughing
  • Andrew 40
    Andrew 40 1 February 2021 15: 48
    +1
    The industry was buried a long time ago, there is only a cut of the dough!
  • Flooding
    Flooding 31 January 2021 13: 54
    +4
    Quote: sergo1914
    Whose child has come of age?

    It's time to get the grandchildren to work.
  • MrFox
    MrFox 31 January 2021 14: 38
    -1
    These talented children who, thanks to their talent, began to run large offices, are not so successful employees of these offices called eggs
  • Pessimist22
    Pessimist22 31 January 2021 13: 29
    -3
    And then they privatize, the assets are attractive.
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 15: 36
      0
      Privatizing what? Holding shares or subsidiaries? The daughters have been corporatized for a long time and, apart from the state, nobody needs them, just like the holding's shares.
      Sincerely
  • paul3390
    paul3390 31 January 2021 13: 31
    0
    Only the question is - is it for the good of the case, or was it more convenient to steal? And then the experience of the years of the triumph of feudo-capitalism still leads to some doubts ..
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 19: 59
      +1
      In terms of theft, not much will change. The main theft goes along the line of fictitious transactions with "their" firms and banks. Purely theoretically, due to the redistribution of profits between the daughters of the holding, something can be stolen, but in practice ... There are such bison in the counting chamber that they will put "smart beavers"
      Sincerely
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 31 January 2021 13: 33
    +7
    A single superholding for the development and production of household goods is not expected?
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 20: 01
      0
      Get Gref out of the WTO or buy a time machine and achieve the withdrawal of troops from Eastern Europe as unnecessary and the collapse of the CMEA. In both cases, the holding is formed by itself ...
      Sincerely
    2. Leon68
      Leon68 31 January 2021 23: 10
      0
      I would like to clarify - and which ones,
      Quote: evgen1221
      household goods
      ,
      do you, at the present time, miss so badly?
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 31 January 2021 13: 39
    -1
    There will be no competitors ... This is both good and bad. It is important that there are good engines.
    1. Sergey39
      Sergey39 31 January 2021 14: 05
      +3
      There will be competitors in the USA and China, maybe that's good.
  • svp67
    svp67 31 January 2021 13: 42
    -1
    Holding (from the English holding "holding, possession"), or a group of companies - a structure of commercial organizations, which includes a parent company and a number of smaller subsidiaries that it controls.
    In short, it's a pity, but the labor exchange is waiting for someone ...
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 15: 38
      +5
      In short, it's a pity, but who is waiting for the labor exchange

      Why would it suddenly ?!
      Any downsizing of staff leads only to their increase - the old managerial wisdom ...
      Sincerely
  • SaLaR
    SaLaR 31 January 2021 13: 43
    0
    We urgently need to buy shares trampoline factory .. They will soon be worth their weight in gold ... bully
  • Sidor Amenpodestovich
    Sidor Amenpodestovich 31 January 2021 13: 49
    -4
    I noticed for a long time: after a news article mentioning Putin, the lion's share of comments on the next one consists of corruption by children, that everything is over, and that they are not doing that, but just to steal.
    This is not always the case, but quite often. It's very funny to watch this.
  • 7,62x54
    7,62x54 31 January 2021 13: 59
    -2
    Earlier Enegomash worked on the development of the space of amers, and now the newly attached
  • askort154
    askort154 31 January 2021 14: 05
    -1
    The distribution of the names of such structures is interesting.
    The USA and England have a "holding"
    Germany has a "concern"
    France has a "partnership".
    Russia liked the Anglo-Saxon version - "holding" more.
    As they say, with whom you lead, from that you will become pregnant. crying
    1. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 31 January 2021 14: 11
      +1
      Or it's just a slightly different structure with certain differences) the form is chosen not for sound, but according to the principle of operation
    2. MrFox
      MrFox 31 January 2021 14: 40
      +3
      These are different names for completely different organizational forms.
    3. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 15: 26
      +3
      A holding is a corporation that does not have its own production assets, but owns shares in other companies. From English to hold - hold. This has nothing to do with the partnership - all members of a simple partnership are responsible for its activities. You should at least read something from civil law and joint-stock companies ...
      Sincerely
      1. Sidor Amenpodestovich
        Sidor Amenpodestovich 31 January 2021 15: 40
        -1
        Quote: nobody75
        You should at least read something from civil law and joint-stock companies ...

        The Chukchi are not a reader, however. Unless, of course, this is about the catastrophic state of affairs with everything in general in Russia. He reads such things with pleasure and immediately believes everything without hesitation.
        1. nobody75
          nobody75 31 January 2021 15: 43
          +1
          I agree that such an askort154 from without the help of "majors" will ruin any collective farm ...
          Sincerely
          1. askort154
            askort154 31 January 2021 16: 04
            -1
            nobody75 I agree that such an askort154 from without the help of "majors" will ruin any collective farm ...

            "Sidoru" and you: Young, green. There is no concept of tact. I posed the question of why Russia chose exactly the option - "holding", and not the others listed, without going into their structural scheme of activities. It is necessary to delve into the essence of the text, and not fly by. So, your counterparts: "Chukchi-Mozhor", not from a great mind. yes hi
            1. nobody75
              nobody75 31 January 2021 16: 06
              +2
              I raised the question why Russia chose the option - "holding"

              For transfer pricing and consolidated reporting. Will this answer suit you? Briefly and to the point.
              Sincerely
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 31 January 2021 14: 22
    0
    And the merger of enterprises is happening here for what? That's right, to optimize later! When will they steal?
    1. nobody75
      nobody75 31 January 2021 15: 32
      +2
      The merger of enterprises into a holding occurs for the following reasons
      1 Transfer pricing (to optimize VAT and income tax. From this year, income tax is considered the balance sheet method)
      2 The introduction of a unified system of consolidated management reporting (in other words, the great company 1c has finally finished the UX)
      Best regards
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 15: 44
    +6
    Everything. We decided to finally bury the industry. The USA and China are 2 corps ahead

    In a hat, the silly couches will be worn out)) They are so detached that in the 60s and 70s they sit according to Soviet technologies))
    In the USSR, they understood that leadership is impossible without COMPETITION.

    Well, of course, within the framework of one holding, competition is impossible? Even some))
    Like spiders in a jar. I personally know that I worked in a well-known holding.

    Europe, India, Japan are already comparable to us, South Korea is on the verge of entering an elite club

    What is this "elite club"? A club for tickling a point?
    Really far, you can't argue.

    We now have completely monopolies that needlessly hit a finger to get a contract.


    Yes, yes, yes, they are completely fuckers, imbeciles and necrocephalics, and do not want to make money, and do not want so much that the whole world is riding on the ISS on our Unions)))
    1. slipped
      slipped 31 January 2021 17: 33
      +3
      Quote: Lord of the Sith
      In a hat, the fools will wear out the sofa))


      Not aware of the disease that 2020 LRE developed by NPO Energomash were used in the global launches of 95:

      RD-107A / 108A - 75 pcs,
      RD-276 - 6 pcs,
      RD-191 - 5 pcs,
      RD-180 - 5 pcs,
      RD-181 - 4 pcs.
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 17: 39
        +6
        That's it.
        But you can't explain this to couch online-lytics what a holding is, what are the pros and cons, they won't understand))
        And our cosmonautics is developing, so that they do not bellow there)))
        1. slipped
          slipped 31 January 2021 17: 45
          +4
          Quote: Lord of the Sith
          And our cosmonautics is developing, so that they do not bellow there)))


          This year, the continuation of flight design tests of the "Angara" LV and the development of the RD-171MV engine as part of the "Soyuz-5" LV stage.

          And also launches of new spacecraft.

          1. Lord of the Sith
            Lord of the Sith 31 January 2021 18: 01
            0
            Yes. Start to be! good
      2. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 21: 55
        -3
        Quote: slipped
        Not aware of the disease that 2020 LRE developed by NPO Energomash were used in the global launches of 95


        How many engines were used?
        1. slipped
          slipped 1 February 2021 02: 32
          0
          Quote: Eye of the Crying
          How many engines were used?


          In total, there were 2020 launches in 114. NPO Energomash's engines have successfully operated in 24 starts, which is 21,05% of global starts.
          1. The eye of the crying
            The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 02: 35
            -5
            It's strange. At first you counted engines in pieces, but now you started counting starts. However, 21.05% is by no means a brilliant result for a leading space power.
            1. slipped
              slipped 1 February 2021 02: 40
              0
              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              It's strange. At first, you counted engines in pieces, but now you began to count starts.


              If you have to count one by one, you count. laughing I announced the number of starts with our engines.

              Quote: Eye of the Crying
              However, 21.05% is by no means a brilliant result for a leading space power.


              This is a normal result, given that foreign customers did not supply some of the payloads in 2020, postponing the delivery for this year for various reasons.
              1. The eye of the crying
                The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 02: 46
                -2
                Quote: slipped
                If you have to count one by one, you count.


                You began to count the engines one by one. Then, however, for some reason they stopped.

                Quote: slipped
                Normal result,


                Not for a leader.
                1. slipped
                  slipped 1 February 2021 02: 49
                  0
                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  You began to count the engines one by one. Then, however, for some reason they stopped.


                  Does this amount not allow you to eat calmly? lol Raise your head higher in your cap - an article about NPO Energomash, and they produce engines.

                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  Not for a leader.


                  We are in no hurry. laughing
                  1. The eye of the crying
                    The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 09: 43
                    -1
                    Quote: slipped
                    Raise your head higher in your cap - an article about NPO Energomash, and they produce engines.


                    Well, that's what the engines would think.
                    1. slipped
                      slipped 1 February 2021 10: 34
                      0
                      Quote: Eye of the Crying
                      Well, that's what the engines would think.


                      Well, I counted. laughing NPO Energomash's production of new products is only increasing, the same Proton-PM is now expanding its capacity and switching to serial production of RD-191 (M).
                      1. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 10: 35
                        -1
                        Quote: slipped
                        Well, I counted.


                        The world has not counted.
                      2. slipped
                        slipped 1 February 2021 10: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        The world has not counted.


                        think so - wikipedia in your hands laughing
  • Alex013
    Alex013 31 January 2021 20: 48
    -4
    What starts. Rogozin has no time, he writes poetry, incl. under the film "Zoya" ... ((
  • bbss
    bbss 1 February 2021 13: 30
    0
    As soon as a holding appears ... the industry is shut down.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 2 February 2021 11: 45
      0
      Another add-on has appeared that eats up the money of enterprises without giving anything in return. We will now have to reduce the number of workers to feed the new managers. In a ratio of about 10 to 1.