Military Review

Social protection in tsarist Russia: not an easy problem

303
Social protection in tsarist Russia: not an easy problem
Beggar singers. Painting by V. Vasnetsov, 1873. Vyatka Art Museum of V.М. I am. Vasnetsov


“Give to him who is hungry for your bread, and to those who are naked from your clothes; from everything in which you have excess, do alms, and let your eyes not pity when you do alms. "
(Tobit 4:16)

“The king leaves the cathedral. The boyar in front distributes alms to the poor.
Foolish:
- Boris, Boris! Children offend Nikolka.
King:
- Give him alms. What is he crying about? "
(Boris Godunov. A.S. Pushkin)

It's always nice when someone can help you in difficult times. But how to determine who really needs help, and who is simply lazy, but cunning by nature? That is why the problem of social protection of the population has always presented a certain problem for the state ...

Charity in pre-revolutionary Russia. Recently, another article on the topic of social protection of the working people of post-revolutionary Russia appeared on VO. And it seems - yes, who can argue, the topic is important and interesting, only you need to approach it seriously, without replacing historical analysis with nice words. There was a paragraph like this:

No matter how much admirers of pre-revolutionary Russia liked to talk about charity and good merchants and landowners - patrons, a full-fledged system of social protection of the population, which covered all the inhabitants of the country, was formed only after the victory of the Bolsheviks. The 1917 revolution created a welfare structure that no other country in the world had in those years. Real help to the working people began to be rendered.

Process and result


The highlighted phrase makes you wonder what is more important - the process or the result? So, after the revolution of 1917, the creation of this structure was only DECLARED, but its creation took a long, and even very long time. It is one thing to print the text of the decree on newsprint, and quite another to implement it in a country ravaged by war, seized by turmoil and disease.

There was one more important problem that made it difficult for young Soviet Russia to quickly create an effective system of social protection of the population. It is about her that we will tell you today.

The variety of forms of social assistance


And the thing is that the system of social protection of the population in tsarist Russia took shape gradually over many, many decades and consisted of different structural elements. For some reason, this is what the critics of the tsarist time say least of all about, and meanwhile, everything that has developed historically is the most difficult to rebuild and replace with something else.

And now we note that in tsarist Russia there was a multi-stage system of providing assistance to the population, which included many components.

First of all, it was private charity, which was the most widespread type of charitable activity and consisted of donations by individuals to help those in need of both money and things, or, say, the same medicines. They accumulate such assistance and distribute it to charitable foundations, for which such donations were the basis of all funds. Usually foundations turned to citizens to respond to acute social problems, promising them help in solving them.

It is clear that immediately after the revolution, the activities of all these funds were terminated, and all the work that they carried out was now entrusted to the state. And since these funds were mostly private, it simply, like the same banks, for example, could not nationalize them.

Large companies are able to provide systematic support for science, culture, solve problems in the field of education and healthcare on a regional or even countrywide scale. This kind of charity has the character of social investment. Medium and small businesses usually support very specific institutions: orphanages, hospitals, disabled people's societies and veterans. Some enterprises could help not with money, but with their products, or provide services: for example, supply bricks for the construction of a temple. However, since all enterprises in Soviet Russia were nationalized, and besides, there was a civil war in the country, there was no question of any help from small and medium-sized businesses to anyone. Well, during the NEP period - yes, the NEPs again began to provide assistance, but when the NEP was closed, then this form of social assistance fell on the shoulders of the state. And, of course, at the same time it became ... less targeted. Although the state's own capabilities to provide it have certainly increased!

Philanthropy and patronage


In Soviet Russia, such a type of social assistance as philanthropy (translated from Greek: "love for people") has completely disappeared. "Philanthropy" is the same as charity, but it must be emphasized that the difference between philanthropy and charity lies not in specific forms of action, but in the sphere of motivation. Although not helping specific people and their groups, but investing in nature, art and science, sooner or later, it will certainly also "reach" society. However, who would be engaged in philanthropy in our country then, and then? Well, except that one of them can be attributed to the laureates of the Stalin and State Prizes, donating them for the defense of the country? However, such a contribution is, in fact, a drop in the ocean, nothing more than ... an example.

Another form of social assistance in tsarist Russia was patronage. Initially "patron" is a proper name. Gaius Cilny Maecenas was a friend and advisor to the Emperor Augustus - he was famous for giving money to aspiring poets. Few concrete examples of his activities have come down to us, but the fact that such was, can be judged by the statement of Martial:

If Patrons were with us - and Virgils would be found right away!

At first glance, patronage differs from charity in a narrower field of activity: the patron provides support to people involved in culture, science and art. However, a deeper difference can be found, again in the area of ​​motivation. The philanthropist helps not so much a person as, so to speak, the social role that he plays. He supports a beggar artist of genius, not because he is poor, but because he is an artist. That is, it is not the person himself that is supported, but his talent; its role in the development of culture, science, art. In Soviet society, there was a clear line: "our talent" - "not our talent." “Not ours”, no matter how talented they were, were not socially supported, it is good that at least they could work as janitors, but for “ours” there were studios, and dachas, and ... “sturgeon of the first freshness”. That is, it was not talent in this case that was the criterion of social assistance, but the support by "talent" of the course of the party and government. In principle, this was the case in tsarist Russia, but there such talent could be supported by private patrons. In Soviet Russia, there were simply none. There was no sponsorship then either, because there was no one and no one to sponsor ...

Now let's move on to at least some figures (which for some reason were completely absent in the above-mentioned article) in order to more easily navigate in relation to what was then and what was subsequently done.

Social assistance in numbers and facts


So, the number of those in need of charitable assistance in Russia at the end of the XIX - beginning of the XX century. accounted for about 5% of the population - that is, about 8 million people. More than 1 million people regularly used charitable assistance, which in monetary terms exceeded the amount of 500 million rubles. In addition to everything in Russia during the period under study, there were 361 thousand beggars, among whom, in addition to the disabled, there were those who could well work, but deliberately preferred to parasitize. 14 institutions provided charitable aid throughout the country, of which 854 were societies and 7 institutions. For example, 349 charitable institutions belonged to the Department of Institutions of Empress Maria, 7 to the Russian Red Cross Society, 505 to the Imperial Philanthropic Society, and 683 to the guardianship of industrious and workhouses.

Now let's think about it: the revolution canceled all this almost at once. This whole system ... fell apart. And we needed funds (and considerable), personnel and time to recreate all this at least at the same level. So it was physically impossible to do it by decree-decree. Therefore, we can only talk about when, in the renewed Russia, at least this pre-revolutionary level of social security was achieved. This is what should have been written about, but ... what was not, that is not.

Go ahead. I have no data other than the above for the whole country. But there is interesting data on the Penza province. About how social protection was carried out there before the revolution. That is, the fact that 8 million needed, and only 1 million used constantly, seems to indicate a lack of it. But at the same time, very often help was targeted, that is, it was received by those who needed more than others. Well, in general, let's take a closer look at the "social protection" of those days far from today. So…

Gubernia in the center of Russia


The population census of 1897 showed that about 1,5 million people lived on the territory of the Penza province, of which only 140 thousand were in cities. Moreover, before the revolution, the Penza province was much larger in area than the modern Penza region, and it included 10 counties.

And so one of the forms of public charity was the creation of public libraries. In the period 1899-1903. The Penza zemstvo annually opened 10 national libraries, one in each district. And in 1904, the provincial zemstvo already contained 50 public libraries with eight thousand readers. In 1907, there were already 91 public libraries in the province. Their maintenance cost the zemstvo 9 rubles. In 700 - 1910 rubles, that is, libraries were supplied with literature in increasing quantities.

The readership of public libraries looks interesting. In 1907 - 12 thousand readers, of which 34% were readers over 18 years old, 30% - 12-18 years old, 36% - schoolchildren from 8 to 12 years old. In total, the zemstvo institutions of the Penza province opened and maintained 102 public and 50 school libraries.

Donated 10 thousand and received a medal!


In the care of the poor, it was customary to celebrate the most prominent benefactors. For example, on May 7, 1862, a merchant of the 1st guild, Ivan Kononov, was awarded a gold medal with the inscription: "For diligence", to be worn around his neck on the Stanislavskaya ribbon. He donated 10 thousand silver rubles to the trusteeship, and his wife also helped with things and supplies. Although, of course, such zeal was the exception rather than the rule.

For girls from poor families, a school was created, their stay in which was paid for by private benefactors, the state had nothing to do with this form of assistance. And here is what was reported about his work:

Actually, the upbringing is the best, the adopted girls and children are excellent. They all study well and start working. Anyone who wanted to see them made sure of the good purpose of the school. Two girls from the orphanage and two orphans were brought to the school, after the deceased official. Placed by private benefactors with a fee of 50 rubles in silver in the first year and 25 rubles in the next.

A little about the life of those who are being looked after ...


The school reports show that the pupils were taught: the Law of God, reading, writing, counting and handicrafts.

To monitor the health of the pupils, they are placed in clean and tidy rooms, always dressed in clean linen and dress. Each pupil has: 3 shirts, 3 dresses, 3 towels, 3 sheets, 3 skirts, 6 aprons, 6 capes, 2 caps, 2 blankets, 2 pillowcases, 2 handkerchiefs, 2 neckerchiefs, 3 pairs of shoes, 4 pairs stocking.

According to the documents, the pupils who left the school were given 88 rubles 39 kopecks, which means that the girls left the school with some means of subsistence. Considering that the salary of a class lady (not a teacher!) At the gymnasium at that time was 30 rubles, an ensign - 25, a turner of the "first hand" in Penza - 40, and in St. Petersburg - 80, then one can imagine that ... they were released, having provided, in fact, a month's earnings for a good artisan in the capital.

The pupils were allowed to take holidays and temporarily leave the school, this was allowed by the corresponding order of the emperor of May 21, 1862:

Vacation allows all pupils only for summer vacations, with the exception of those girls who complete the course of studies. These last girls for the rest of one year of their stay in the institution must stay there hopelessly and carry out their scientific education during vacations and holidays by reading Russian and foreign writers under the guidance of their superiors; an exemption in this respect can only be allowed for girls in poor health, with a certificate from an institute doctor.

And you can say as much as you like that this assistance was insufficient - quite possibly it was. But replacing it like this, with a simple stroke of the pen, was completely impossible, especially in the conditions of the Civil War and the devastation that followed. However, charity in pre-revolutionary Penza was by no means limited to the maintenance of public libraries, charity and education of girls from poor families.

To be continued ...
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  1. Lech from Android.
    Lech from Android. 10 February 2021 05: 20
    +12
    It is sad to read such articles. After wars, revolutions, crises, the population inevitably becomes poor, only a handful of the elite are getting rich. Instead of solving the problem of increasing the well-being of citizens with the provision of normal jobs, guarantees of pensions, the development of social services, we have survived to the state of tsarist Russia ... Where are we going at all? There is no certainty about the future with the current state management system. We have the richest country, there are many talented people, and nevertheless, we cannot solve the problem of the normal prosperity of people, for the past century we have been stepping on the same rake of social injustice.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 February 2021 07: 06
      -2
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      It is sad to read such articles.

      Yeah, I figured out how much my colleague in the Russian Empire received and I came to the conclusion that I am a beggar! crying
      1. kalibr
        10 February 2021 09: 04
        -7
        Vladislav! And I read how university professors lived. And assistant professors ... not bad, damn it, very much even. Better than associate professors in Soviet universities.
        1. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 10 February 2021 09: 42
          +18
          Now let's think about it: the revolution canceled all this almost at once. This whole system ... fell apart. And we needed funds (and considerable), personnel and time to recreate all this at least at the same level
          So it does not exist now. Where are all these aid funds? Why not reduce the number of beggars? Even in the mouthpiece of your democracy - TV, they don't talk about it. And charity work in Ingushetia was mainly carried out by those who had nothing more to do, countess, baroness and others, but those who "atoned for their sins." Read about Sheremetev's turbulent youth that he built the hospital we know as "Sklif". And he did it already in old age. And what he has benefited pales in comparison with what he has done.
          Vladislav! And I read how university professors lived. And assistant professors ... not bad, damn it, very much even. Better than associate professors in Soviet universities.
          Yeah, not bad. You will read how the professor lived in the 30-50s in the USSR, until the corn equalizer equated them with locksmiths. And then wail.
          1. Destiny
            Destiny 10 February 2021 09: 56
            +16
            Quote: AKuzenka
            So it does not exist now. Where are all these aid funds?

            What system can we talk about if the whole country is collecting money for children by SMS. Where are all these benefactors Rotenbergs with Deripaska and other benefactors Chubais? You can't find them with fire during the day.
            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 10 February 2021 10: 07
              +9
              Where are all these benefactors Rotenbergs with Deripaska and other Chubais benefactors?
              There is no secret in this. They rest on yachts, islands, where they roam and multiply "righteously acquired". They donate to the church, then the hierarchs shine the clock, at the cost of a hundred-year average salary of the parishioners being cared for. Oh, yes, they also order articles about how good it was under the tsar, how bad it was under the USSR, and how soon it will be good under them.
            2. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 10 February 2021 13: 59
              -2
              Quote: Destiny
              Quote: AKuzenka
              So it does not exist now. Where are all these aid funds?

              What system can we talk about if the whole country is collecting money for children by SMS. Where are all these benefactors Rotenbergs with Deripaska and other benefactors Chubais? You can't find them with fire during the day.

              Children were paid for the first two treatment abroad, and more than once.
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 12: 37
                0
                This is ridiculous. Squeeze out the surplus value by a billion, and then help by a million.
          2. kalibr
            10 February 2021 10: 19
            -7
            Quote: AKuzenka
            until the corn leveler matched them with the locksmiths

            So what? It was all the same in our country. And now the situation is no better ...
            1. Akuzenka
              Akuzenka 10 February 2021 10: 24
              +9
              And now the situation is no better ...
              Where are your "benefactors", your "justice"? Why have not the wages been restored? Professors, as under the "blessed king"? I won't even ask you about the rest.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 10: 36
                +9
                Quote: AKuzenka
                Where are your "benefactors", your "justice"?

                He built the Grudinin kindergarten and the best school in Europe.
                The Abramovichs, Potanins, Vekselbergs, Rotenbury did not build anything except yachts and palaces, although the authorities are in favor.
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 February 2021 14: 12
                  -8
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: AKuzenka
                  Where are your "benefactors", your "justice"?

                  He built the Grudinin kindergarten and the best school in Europe.
                  The Abramovichs, Potanins, Vekselbergs, Rotenbury did not build anything except yachts and palaces, although the authorities are in favor.

                  The best school in Europe? lol At what indicators is it the best? And ask about Abramovich in Anadyr - he made a modern, livable city out of a degenerate hole for his grandmother. Vekselberg bought the Faberge collection from the Forbes for his own money, returned it to Russia and built a museum - investing about 5-8 billion rubles. Rotenberg gives a decent amount for the treatment of children abroad. Before writing anything, check the information (without belittling the merits of Grudinin)
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 14: 41
                    +7
                    Oh, Albert, I accidentally hurt the honor of the Jews! wassat
                    You would not compare a finger with a similar object. This is me about the income of this trinity, and Grudinin. And costs too.
                    1. Stirbjorn
                      Stirbjorn 10 February 2021 15: 10
                      +6
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Oh, Albert, I accidentally hurt the honor of the Jews!

                      and only to Potanin from your list, not a word in defense lol
                      1. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 10 February 2021 16: 43
                        +3
                        Quote: Stirbjorn
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Oh, Albert, I accidentally hurt the honor of the Jews!

                        and only to Potanin from your list, not a word in defense lol

                        laughing I confess - ethnic discrimination repeat
                        In fact, he heads the Board of Trustees of the Russian Geographical Community, has done a lot for charity in Russia
                      2. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 16: 58
                        +6
                        Quote: Krasnodar
                        did a lot for charity in Russia

                        As for the ecology of the North! good
                        Albert, don't be funny, all these people are corny squeezing the legacy of the USSR.
                      3. Krasnodar
                        Krasnodar 10 February 2021 17: 41
                        -1
                        Returning Faberge to Russia, for example? ))
                2. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 10 February 2021 16: 40
                  0
                  Do you want to write anything about the quality of the "best school in Europe"? lol
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 16: 57
                    0
                    I trust Grudinin's word. If this were not the case, our valiant media would have already poked him with the inconsistency of this statement.
                  2. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 10 February 2021 17: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    I trust Grudinin's word. If this were not the case, our valiant media would have already poked him with the inconsistency of this statement.

                    laughing Having run around other Russian schools? ))
            2. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 11 February 2021 12: 38
              -1
              Before pompous chase nonsense think hard.
          3. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2021 14: 25
            0
            One of the best means of "donation", giving freedom of action to philanthropists, anonymity is charitable foundations. Even Detochkin, an ardent hijacker, transferred funds to orphanages (anonymously) by mail, and not personally into the hands of each orphan. You don’t know anything, you don’t want to know, but you condemn Rotenberg only for being successful and not merging into another country ... (they will not tell us about his really good deeds in the tabloid press)
            And Grudinin is Yes! Without your PR, he can’t. He is such a "young man" ...
            I pissed myself off, I used the right thing for self-promotion. Or are you SO caring for him that you ruin his reputation? ...
            O sancta simplicitas!
      2. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 February 2021 14: 00
        -3
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: AKuzenka
        until the corn leveler matched them with the locksmiths

        So what? It was all the same in our country. And now the situation is no better ...

        Now they go to teach and at the expense of the sessions "leave" lol And everyone is happy with everything - students, parents, professors fellow
      3. Alex_1973
        Alex_1973 10 February 2021 23: 53
        +1
        kalibr (Vyacheslav)
        So what? It was all the same in our country. And now the situation is no better ...
        Judging by how much you hate the USSR, this is clearly not your country. And what kind of homeland can you have? The selling skins have one homeland - the price is tight, but you probably weren't lucky with that either.
        1. kalibr
          11 February 2021 07: 06
          -1
          Quote: Alex_1973
          but you probably have no luck with that either.

          Of course not lucky. He was robbed back in the USSR. Now we have to return what was taken away and not given then, which, of course, is difficult in old age.
  2. DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 16: 53
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    And I read how university professors lived.

    Professor of Gorny in Yekaterinburg received 4500 rubles in gold a year, an apartment and firewood ... hi The modern one gets at least 5 times less ... repeat
    1. Nazar
      Nazar 10 February 2021 17: 36
      +1
      DrEng527 - And the qualifications of the current professional are an order of magnitude lower - what to pay for?
      1. DrEng527
        DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 56
        +1
        Quote: Nazar
        So the qualifications of the current professional are an order of magnitude lower

        can you find out what your opinion is based on? wink
        1. Nazar
          Nazar 10 February 2021 18: 04
          +5
          DrEng527 - I just know very well who teaches at our technical university, according to my specialty (construction) - they should not be allowed close to the students ... but there are no others. And yet - I know very well how hard it was to write and then defend dissertations (candidate's and even more so doctoral dissertations), now it's a complete profanity, hence the question - why pay these "fake" candidates and doctors?
          1. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 February 2021 18: 31
            +2
            Quote: Nazar
            I know very well who teaches at our technical university, in my specialty (construction)

            and on the basis of this draw conclusions of the global level and the same stupidity? bully
            Quote: Nazar
            I know well how hard it was to write and defend dissertations

            have degrees? wink
            Quote: Nazar
            and for what to pay these "fake" candidates and doctors?

            1) they don't pay for degrees now
            2) do you have Nersh? how many articles are in Q1?
            1. Nazar
              Nazar 11 February 2021 07: 31
              0
              DrEng527 - Who are you to determine stupidity or not, what I wrote? A slacker who hasn't worked in production for a day? What industry do you consider yourself a specialist in? Or is it an internet writer? I have 42 years of experience in construction and I can absolutely accurately determine the level of qualification of a "specialist" in this industry.
              My parents have worked as teachers in universities all their lives and my mother and father were DTN and how much serious work it required writing dissertations then I know not by hearsay, and I also know how it is done now - that's why I'm writing - with the current prof. teacher level composition, with the exception of perhaps a dozen elite universities, they do not even work out what they are paid.
              1. DrEng527
                DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 52
                -2
                Quote: Nazar
                DrEng527 - Who are you to determine stupidity or not, what I wrote?

                I understand this issue a little, let's just say - compared to me, you are an illiterate schoolboy ... bully
                Quote: Nazar
                A slacker who hasn't worked in production for a day?

                pulled by the soviet hegemon ... bully
                Quote: Nazar
                In what industry do you consider yourself a specialist?

                Education, science, nanotechnology, powerful pulsed technology, nuclear physics, radiation technologies ... hi
                Quote: Nazar
                I have 42 years of experience in construction

                happy for you, but managing obscene migrants and understanding the sciences is somewhat different ... request
                Quote: Nazar
                and I also know how it's done now - that's why I'm writing

                defended themselves or did one grandmother say? hi
                Quote: Nazar
                they do not even work out what they are paid.

                your level of development and education is trash - it's just a given in this matter ... your opinion of an amateur is only interesting to you, alas ... hi you have not written a single article in a normal journal, you have no degree, you have never taught, and you have an opinion ... bully
                1. Nazar
                  Nazar 12 February 2021 01: 15
                  +2
                  DrEng527 - "Education, science, nanotechnology, powerful pulsed technology, nuclear physics, radiation technologies" - laughing All at once - that is, NOTHING, as I wrote - unemployed, professional loafer, especially touched - "nanotechnology" - Chubais fosterling? Your "epaulet", or rather its absence on this site, speaks very eloquently that I am now communicating with a "freak" - and to communicate with someone like you is not respecting yourself.
                  I wish you success in Mastering nantechnology laughing
                2. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 12 February 2021 11: 25
                  -1
                  Quote: Nazar
                  All at once - that is, NOTHING

                  Quote: DrEng527
                  your level of development and education is trashy

                  you just don't know the connection between these branches of technical physics, but I know ... bully
                  Quote: Nazar
                  Chubais fosterling?

                  how wretched you are, for you nanotechnology is only Chubais ... bully
                  Quote: Nazar
                  Your "shoulder strap", or rather its absence

                  so you are also a boot? bully
                  Quote: Nazar
                  I am now communicating with a "freak" - and to communicate with someone like you is not to respect yourself.

                  this is understandable when there is no knowledge and skills it is better to declare everything stupid ... what a Skalozub you are ... bully
                  Quote: Nazar
                  I wish you success in Mastering nantechnology

                  There were always enough fools in Russia, the first trouble ... request
  • Astra wild2
    Astra wild2 10 February 2021 19: 40
    +4
    Good evening . It is my fault that I did not immediately go to this "branch"
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, '"I read how university professors lived," but we did not.
    You compared wealth, but took into account such "little things": the number of universities in Ingushetia and in the Soviet Union? Finding funds to educate hundreds of students and support a professor is easier than teaching 10 students and 000 professors.
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 07: 23
      -1
      Quote: Astra wild2
      Finding funds to educate hundreds of students and support a professor is easier than teaching 10 students and 000 professors.

      Quite right! But all the new universities and thousands of students appeared in the USSR not immediately, but gradually, but gradually everything is found. Well ... it's a pity that you don't know how our professorship worked in the 20s ... It's just a "song". There was a big article about this in the magazine "Rodina". I inserted this passage into my novel "Three from Ensk". But if I try ... I'll find it and ... rewrite it.
    2. kalibr
      11 February 2021 07: 39
      0
      Today, Astra, for you a long-promised article about clothes. This time it is Byzantium.
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 11 February 2021 08: 55
        +4
        Vyacheslav Olegovich, I respect you and always read carefully. True, sometimes I wish I could bite you
        1. kalibr
          11 February 2021 08: 57
          +1
          "I love Mr. PeZhe very much! And I am even more KU!"
          1. Astra wild2
            Astra wild2 11 February 2021 09: 47
            +1
            I don’t remember who Pe Zhe was?
    3. DrEng527
      DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 53
      0
      Quote: Astra wild2
      easier than teaching 10 students and

      there were more than 100 students in RI ...
      1. Astra wild2
        Astra wild2 11 February 2021 14: 13
        +1
        I did not set out to count students, but said conditionally
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 14: 41
          0
          Quote: Astra wild2
          I did not set out to count students, but said conditionally

          the number matters as an indicator of the development of higher education in RI ... request
  • Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 10 February 2021 13: 58
    0
    Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    It is sad to read such articles.

    Yeah, I figured out how much my colleague in the Russian Empire received and I came to the conclusion that I am a beggar! crying

    Only they, like today, were treated in the West and tried to learn children at the Western University)). So don't worry - we lived the same way.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 57
      -3
      Quote: Krasnodar
      and children tried to learn at Western University

      rave! Western diplomas were not quoted in RI ... request
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 10 February 2021 19: 39
        +7
        lol
        Aha
        Mikhailo Lomonosov. 1736-1739 - studied at the University of Marburg. For example. hi
        1. DrEng527
          DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 45
          -1
          Quote: Krasnodar
          Aha

          you can remember what happened under Ivan the Terrible! I'm talking about the late 19th and early 20th centuries - a Russian diploma was needed to establish an en service!
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 11 February 2021 12: 52
            +1
            And German, French and English were not rolled? laughing
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 57
              0
              Quote: Krasnodar
              And German, French and English were not rolled?

              no
              1. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 11 February 2021 13: 11
                +2
                by the beginning of the twentieth century, the Russian diaspora in European university cities was one of the largest (more than 8000 people).

                "The conditions of admission to Russian higher technical educational institutions with their competitive tests, leaving hundreds of young people out of the state ... have long pushed Russian youth abroad ...".

                Education magazine, 1901
                Of course, not only young people who belonged to social / national groups discriminated against by the state educational system left to study, but also those who wanted to master a new, in-demand specialty (mainly related to higher technical education) or engage in scientific activities. By 1913 the Russian Empire possessed six technical universities. In Germany at the same time there were 10 of them, in France - 8, in Austria - 7. At the same time, Russian polytechnics were significantly inferior to Western European ones in a variety of areas of training.

                https://molod.rgub.ru/stories/20_04.php
                hi
                1. DrEng527
                  DrEng527 11 February 2021 13: 32
                  0
                  Quote: DrEng527
                  a Russian diploma was needed for the organization of en service!

                  Quote: Krasnodar
                  to social / national groups discriminated against by the state educational system,

                  and what is the contradiction? Serving the state, private firms took whoever they needed!
                  1. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 11 February 2021 13: 58
                    +1
                    And, well, if in terms of entering the civil service, then sorry for the misunderstanding hi Even now, having come with an MIT diploma, getting a job at Rostec is somehow dumb laughing They will take the chela with the education received at the Kuban University)). The question is, WHO with such a diploma will go to the civil service, but that's another question))
                  2. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 11 February 2021 14: 39
                    -1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    WHO with such a diploma will go to civil service, n

                    I have a TPI diploma and I do not consider it worse than any American university from the Ivy League bully As it was, there were no problems communicating with colleagues from any other countries ...
                  3. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 11 February 2021 14: 57
                    0
                    I'm not saying which is worse - you did not pass the session for bribes, in the first place; You can also tell them about the birth of Marxism-Leninism in engineering, in what they are complete laymen - secondly drinks
                  4. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 11 February 2021 15: 14
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    You did not pass the session for bribes,

                    at FTF? laughing
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Birth of Marxism-Leninism in Engineering

                    yes, I learned this so much that I easily gave up Marxism by 5 ... bully and now rzhu-no-magic, when I read the opuses of any new Reds or a supporter in the USSR ... bully
                  5. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 11 February 2021 15: 38
                    +1
                    Now both at FTF and for cutting and sewing are rented this way))
                  6. DrEng527
                    DrEng527 11 February 2021 15: 46
                    +1
                    Quote: Krasnodar
                    Now both at FTF and for cutting and sewing are rented this way))

                    as far as I know, and I know quite well, you are mistaken about FTF ... wink although I agree, they are expelled less (in my time 50%) due to the peculiarities of financing ... recourse
                  7. Krasnodar
                    Krasnodar 11 February 2021 15: 56
                    0
                    That's exactly what I want to say
  • Fat
    Fat 12 February 2021 14: 46
    +1
    Objection, Albert. They went to Heidelberg and the Sorbonne mainly as "the second highest". Mikhailo Lomonosov gave such a wonderful kick to Russian "higher education" that it was only in 2000 that the enemies of the communists managed to level it with the European one (in the sense of reducing the quality of Russian) crying . laughing
    1. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 12 February 2021 15: 41
      0
      Glad to see you! hi
      We went to technical faculties / universities as the main one (including), to the rest - yes, to the Master, etc.
      And the kick stopped even in the days of communist friends, who were boldly communists)). It is connected with the distancing of the USSR from the world scientific community. Basic, classical, fundamental training was excellent, but due to the lack of close contacts, incl. on the initiative of the West, a significant lag began in medicine, electronics, etc.
      The collapse of the USSR finished off everything, the teaching staff could receive intelligible money only on a corrupt basis sad
      1. Fat
        Fat 12 February 2021 16: 14
        +1
        Albert! you will laugh. But the "Iron Curtain" was invented by the beloved patriot of His country W. Churchill. In general medicine and sanitation, the USSR gave odds to many. And in the 30s and 40s, the art of living reached very great heights. 60-70 years old, no pancake ... The USSR did not lag behind ... But right away, precisely because of the lack of proper contacts, "a significant backlog" is presented like candy.
        And electronics, my patient ... Instead of domestic developments ... when they preferred very good (!) Their samples of a single series (based on IBM) ... this is the stupidest concession of the USSR in favor of CMEA ... Nothing national (personal) - only business ... (like general ... In general, I'm surprised at WHAT number of concessions the USSR made for the sake of maintaining the loyalty of the satellite countries. We were naturally "sold" for a more promising enticement "blue jeans and country music" than universal happiness in a vague perspective ...
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 12 February 2021 17: 40
          -1
          1) The Iron Curtain is an idiom. From Fulton's speech, Churchill is singled out by propagandists. Roughly - because of the tyranny in the countries of the socialist camp, it is necessary to create a brotherhood of the British peoples (Amerika, pamagy). AND
          A shadow fell onto a stage that had recently been lit up by the Alliance's victory. Nobody knows what Soviet Russia and its international communist organization intend to do in the near future and whether there are any limits to their expansion. I really respect and admire the valiant Russian people and my military comrade Marshal Stalin ... We understand that Russia needs to secure its western borders and eliminate all possibilities of German aggression. We invite Russia to rightfully take its place among the world's leading nations. Moreover, we welcome or would welcome constant, frequent, growing contacts between the Russian people and our people on both sides of the Atlantic. Nevertheless, it is my duty, and I am sure that you want to, to present the facts as I see them myself.

          2) What exactly was the odds of Soviet medicine? Epidemiology - yes. Traumatology (Elizarov) - yes. Cardiology is the most unreliable, but simple and cheapest method of CABG. Oncology is a mad lag. Diagnostics (imaging) and surgery as well. Etc.
          3) Does it have to do with jeans? Just instead of 60 thousand tanks, you could get by with 20 and not invest in African "people's democracies", but invest in research institutes and competitive light industry, etc.
          1. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2021 18: 20
            +1
            Albert, Everything is simple, like chintz panties, And twill pants. - stamps. Oncology is true, you are right, for a long time I had to come to the level on the "residual" financing "after the fratelia from the cannibalistic community .... Afterbirth does not make our science visionaries - promoters of innovations. No. If you do not argue reasonably, I will continue to believe that radiation therapy was invented, just don't fall, the ancient Chinese!
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 12 February 2021 18: 32
              +1
              In 1895, X-rays were discovered by the scientist Wilhelm Konrad Roentgen from Bavaria. One of the first successful therapeutic applications of X-rays was carried out the following year in Vienna by Leopold Freund, who healed a giant hairy nevus. Ten years later, the German Roentgen Society (Deutsche Röntgengesellschaft) was founded, two years later (10) a German textbook on radiation therapy was published, and in 1907 the world's first journal of radiation oncology, Strahlentherapie, was published.

              hi
              1. Fat
                Fat 12 February 2021 18: 59
                +1
                Albert! Do you seriously believe that you need to know the mechanics to invent archery? Everything is based on intuition and experience! If only the necessary mineral and a suitable person met in time wassat Legends, they are, there is only a part of the invented. In any case, many thanks to the "magazine", did not know. I'll look - it's interesting to look, if it's not printed in Gothic, maybe I'll understand a little ... request hi drinks
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 12 February 2021 19: 20
                  0
                  As for the invention of Roentgen, yes, everything happened by accident.
                  As for radiotherapy in general, 80% of what we have today is thanks to the Germans. drinks The theoretical basis of modern "point" radiation therapy (IMRT and derivatives) - German theoretical developments of the 1960s.
                  But we are talking (a bunch of modern developments) about the FRG. In East Germany, all this was destroyed - not by malice, but by stupidity. laughing
                2. Fat
                  Fat 12 February 2021 19: 56
                  +1
                  Allbert, Bro won't fit into THEIR money-making business. Someone will say - stupid-pye (peyzane), and some will say “prudent bastards”. One way or another, the science of the GDR was often more advanced than the advanced. That’s what the GDR will not forgive, so the initiative for the transition of computers to a "single series" .... Given that they themselves have organized brilliant developments.
                  Within the CMEA framework, this could be a breakthrough. The simplicity of Savovsky's "Robotrons" simply drove our girls off the true path. laughing They fell in love in absentia with the adapted basic ... Tell them that the idol is a little over 17 ... World War would have been predetermined ... So it was wassat
                3. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 12 February 2021 20: 09
                  +1
                  The GDR had many achievements, I admit it, incl. in electronics. But with radiation therapy came the following garbage - the Dresden Medical Machine Building Plant produced excellent at that time radiotherapy machines - cobalt. An instruction came from Moscow - now we are making them in Czechoslovakia. Czechs behind the head - we have no experience! Moscow - drawings and technology will be provided by German comrades. Nevertheless, the products produced were of such a fig quality (after the war, the Czechs did not like their German comrades, they kicked out their Deutsches, and did not listen to the visiting specialists and, most likely, spread rot) that the Didiarists were forced to buy Western counterparts for tower money hi
                4. Fat
                  Fat 12 February 2021 20: 45
                  0
                  Dumbish CMEA! do not remember the dead. But so was the Council, the Czechs squeezed. The Sudeten mines organized themselves in this way. USSR on Sudeten uranium a couple of charges stung for sure. And the German Democratic Republic with its science is no match for industrial Czechs. In short, a masterpiece of kissing priests with acceleration. (and the secretary general loved to go) did not pass ..... Czech Republic - the rebellion of the 1960s. Nobody would let them! We started playing hockey ... and cool. Who will now remember and believe that the first Soviet "big" bomb was born in the Sudetenland?
                5. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 12 February 2021 21: 43
                  +1
                  Material for her. It was organized in Lubyanka and Nevada. Then scientists.
          2. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2021 20: 28
            +1
            Albert. Germany has classified everything related to the "uranium project" since 1939. It was the ABSENCE of news that was, initially, the impetus for the Manhattan project ....
            "Radio medics" were not translated in our sector. We filtered out the bastards, gave them a job for about XNUMX years, provided them, if possible. Who do you think helped our uranium enrichment? Yes, yes ... It's one thing to carry donkeys from the Caucasus, it's another to steal from the French a couple of steamships with hand-picked ore from the Union Miniere ...
            Specialists who returned from captivity worked there. There were no "stupid" ones. Reasonable containment - perhaps, but after 1949 - the formation of the GDR - nothing concrete. Funny coincidence? Our team tested the RD-1 in the 49th
          3. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 12 February 2021 20: 44
            +1
            In the uranium project, they went the wrong way - they got stuck on one garbage and decided to try something fundamentally new, the Americans, also stuck on this, simply solved the problem with a different method.
            The Russians did the smartest of all - they already received information from the American intelligence)).
            According to specialists, they were snapped up by all the allies from the anti-Hitler coalition.
            By stupidity - economic design from Moscow. The Germans are out of business hi
          4. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2021 21: 15
            +2
            Albert, they just got around the German retarder error. This is a Classic! Enrico Fermi, was a risky guy, and in the center of Chicago, start the first Working reactor in 1943 ... The Germans had already launched the 1st one by that time! uranium machine, but it exploded safely after a few hours of operation ...
            Yes. The first projects of a nuclear warhead were provided by the Kharkov Institute of Physics. back in the 30s
            The concept was accepted, (albeit a lazy one, like a cannon-type "big bomb"), but postponed and continued research. There was no "big uranium" in the pre-war USSR - Donkey paths of the Caucasus ... Found in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan, and it is not easier there.
            Tell me after that Beria is a traitor and a maniac.
            Of course a maniac. Raised everyone and everyone was looking ... and found. it was difficult to mine. But first of all, the USSR, by right of the victor, laid its hand on the Sudetenland, where the Germans were already quite digging ...
          5. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 12 February 2021 21: 44
            +1
            Thanks to, including: Beria, we have a peaceful sky over our heads. IMHO.
          6. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2021 23: 20
            0
            Yes. Not for the commissar-cavalryman Voroshilov, this "cap" was. That's for sure fellow
  • Civil
    Civil 10 February 2021 08: 07
    +14
    Social protection in tsarist Russia

    I thought it seemed ... but no, I put on glasses and that's what it says, it sounds like "non-alcoholic vodka".
    there was no social protection in Ingushetia word social would be the basis for the suspicions of the gendarmerie. Before the revolution, 86% of the population was illiterate, "social security" was in the form of handouts and alms. They came to this again by the way. Almshouses with the old and the poor burn every quarter.
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 09: 05
      -10%
      Quote: Civil
      social would be grounds for suspicion of the gendarmerie

      You think so? And Marxism was also the basis for suspicion ...
      1. Civil
        Civil 10 February 2021 09: 16
        +11
        Quote: kalibr
        You think so? And Marxism was also the basis for suspicion ...

        Read the biography of Nikolai Evgrafovich Fedoseev, everything is clearly described there, what terms were given for Marxism.
        1. kalibr
          10 February 2021 10: 23
          -7
          Quote: Civil
          what terms were given for Marxism.

          Oh, how nice it is to deal with half-educated people. Why do you think I asked? I knew your answer in advance (well, not exactly that), now I have a reason to write an article about "legal Marxism" in Russia. You obviously don't know anything about it.
          1. Civil
            Civil 10 February 2021 10: 55
            +4
            Quote: kalibr
            Oh, how nice it is to deal with half-educated people. Why do you think I asked? I knew your answer in advance (well, not exactly that), now I have a reason to write an article about "legal Marxism" in Russia. You obviously don't know anything about it.

            While you were conferring there, what to answer and how to offend, you were perfectly chewed on in the comments) I almost humiliate you, times are hard and you also need to live somehow. Unlike prostitution, engaging in propaganda is not an offense.
            1. kalibr
              10 February 2021 12: 26
              +1
              There will be an article for you about legal Marxism in Russia - there will be!
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 10 February 2021 18: 52
                +1
                Quote: kalibr
                There will be an article for you about legal Marxism in Russia - there will be!

                You'd better write about armor ... about Marxism, nobility and politics, it's better not to disgrace yourself ...
                1. kalibr
                  11 February 2021 07: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Svarog
                  You'd better write about armor ... about Marxism, nobility and politics, it's better not to disgrace yourself ...

                  Don't write to the ignorant - he still doesn't know anything. Not with glasses, not without!
          2. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2021 22: 01
            -1
            Vyacheslav Olegovich. Stick to the "released program" first. But in general, it's your business. Absolute ignorance of the new is indifferent. And for those who are in the "subject" of thought, cut it for a long time. And it's so joyful to read your publications. Those who are all-one can wait ... No?
            Honestly ... I don't give a damn! My great-grandfather of the First March on the parade ground to their "Calvary" saw off without murmuring.
            People's Court? Sovereign's Will? For that - service to the fatherland, loyalty to the oath ..., to the word ...
        2. DrEng527
          DrEng527 10 February 2021 16: 55
          +1
          Quote: Civil
          everything is clearly described there, what terms were given for Marxism.

          in RI, terms were given not for Marxism, but for organizing underground circles, etc. hi
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 February 2021 10: 39
      -18%
      Quote: Civil
      there was no social protection in the Republic of Ingushetia. The word social would be the basis for the suspicions of the gendarmerie. Before the revolution, 86% of the population was illiterate, "social security" was in the form of handouts and alms.

      There WAS social protection in Russia and very perfect, the level of which the subsequent regime reached only after decades.

      Millions of old people in Russia received their well-deserved and earned PENSIONS, which the new government deprived them of and doomed them to death, thus "solving" the social problem of the elderly. ALL treasuries, both public and private, and their funds, collected by the workers, were robbed and warned were closed.

      In addition to those listed above by the respected author of charity, philanthropy, there was a system of pensions for serving officials, military personnel, teachers, etc.

      Pension non-state funds covered millions of Russian citizens. Almost all classes took part in them: there were pension funds for the military, railway employees, and industrial workers. Since 1883, zemstvo emeritus cash offices began to appear, in which the poor classes also participated. The funds accumulated in the pension system of the Russian Empire were colossal.

      For example, the total budget of the pension funds of railway workers in 1909 was a huge amount at that time - 245 million rubles, and by the number of participants it was the leader - 480 000 people (C)
      Quote: Civil
      Before the revolution, 86% of the population was illiterate, "social security" was in the form of handouts and alms.

      You are illiterate and do not know the history of your country
      Quote: Civil
      ... Before the revolution, 86% of the population was illiterate,

      After the Thief, within 10 years NOT a single school was built, which delayed the education of millions for several years (before the Thief, 4-5 thousand schools were introduced).

      In Russia it was 130-140 thousand schools. and hundreds of thousands of teachers. They were created by Russia, not thieves. The result of the thieves is dying out Russia and the number of schools is two times less.
      1. Foul skeptic
        Foul skeptic 10 February 2021 10: 50
        +10
        Since 1883, zemstvo emeritus cash offices began to appear, in which the poor classes also participated.

        Are you again talking about this stupidity of yours from one of the past topics?
        Peasants had access to pensions through the zemstvo emerging funds

        After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years

        And can you prove it? laughing
        So much has been said with you on this topic and no use.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 10 February 2021 11: 25
          -8
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          This is you again about this one of yours folly from one of the past topics?

          The skeptical fool could ... refute something? belay
          Quote: Nefarious skeptic
          And can you prove it?

          See even false Soviet statistics - the number of schools for 10 years, practically, has not changed
          1. Foul skeptic
            Foul skeptic 10 February 2021 12: 10
            +5
            The skeptical fool could ... refute something?

            Russell's teapot, Olgovich, Russell's teapot - proves the affirmer, not the denier.
            Do you seriously think that your words should be refuted? It is not me who refutes them, but "The Main Grounds for the Establishment of Zemstvo Emeritus Treasuries" dated 5.04.1883/XNUMX/XNUMX and the Charters of such treasuries - zemstvo emerging treasuries served zemstvo employees (for which they were created): zemstvo teachers, paramedics, clerks, veterinarians, agronomists land surveyors, police officers, police officers, etc.
            See even false Soviet statistics - the number of schools for 10 years, practically, has not changed

            Watch our previous conversation tongue
            Where were you told that according to this logic, not a single school has been built in modern Russia in three decades, since the total number of schools has decreased. Which is not true. Similarly, this is
            the number of schools for 10 years, practically did not change

            cannot serve as proof of this
            After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 10 February 2021 13: 45
              -9
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              Russell's teapot, Olgovich, Russell's teapot - proves the affirmer, not the denier.

              That's it: YOU affirm (falsely) that I am wrong, but you do not prove in any way.
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              Do you seriously think that your words should be refuted? They are refuted not by me, but by "The main grounds for the establishment of zemstvo emerging cash funds" from 5.04.1883 and the Charters of such treasuries - zemstvo emerging treasuries served the employees of zemstvos (for which they were created): zemstvo teachers, paramedics, clerks, veterinarians, agronomists, land surveyors, police officers, police officers, etc.

              You still ... take the 18th century lol
              Quote: Nefarious skeptic
              Watch our previous conversation
              Where were you told that according to this logic, not a single school has been built in modern Russia in three decades, since the total number of schools has decreased. Which is not true. Similarly, this is
              the number of schools for 10 years, practically did not change

              cannot serve as proof of this
              After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years

              Only a fool would put on a par with today's times with a depressed demography and a century ago with a rapid population growth.

              You were told in Russian back then that capital buildings (and that’s exactly what schools), as a rule, do not disappear, and newly built ones only increase their number.

              And instead 40-50 thousand schooll, which would have been built from 1917 to 1927, had Russia been preserved, the new regime could NOT build ANYTHING, which is why millions of people were educated LATER.
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 10 February 2021 14: 37
                +3
                That's it: YOU are claiming

                Ahhh ... So this is it
                Peasants had access to pensions through the zemstvo emerging funds

                this turns out to be my statement, not yours ... belay
                Yours? Your. That's prove it. You can not? Then
                affirm (falsely)

                it's about you request
                You still ... take the 18th century

                And what do you need, the 21st century, if you yourself write above
                With 1883 years, zemstvo emerging cash desks began to appear

                Trying to move out on the fact that then there were changes ... Well, present to the public the later normative acts, which say that the fund of such treasuries applies to peasants. You can not? Then what is the conversation about.
                The charter, for example, of the Vladimir cash desk was adopted in 1896. In the first paragraph it says:
                Emergency fund is established for the issuance of pensions and lump-sum benefits to persons, employees in zemstvo institutions Volodymyr province and their families on the basis of this charter.

                And at the end of the appendix there is a list of positions. And not a word about the peasants. The Charter of the Ryazan Cashier is the same.
                put on a par with today's times with depressed demographics and the times of a century ago with a rapid population growth.

                like in a frying pan laughing Hot, so sculpt everything?
                This set of words does not affect
                the number of schools for 10 years, practically did not change
                cannot serve as proof of this
                After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years

                Therefore, all honest people expect proof from you that not a single school was built. You claim it - you it and prove... And for this it is still necessary to prove that not a single school was destroyed and that not a single school was enlarged. So - go for it! lol One must answer for the words.
                that capital buildings (and schools are exactly that), as a rule, do not disappear,

                laughing What is not the rule?
                And instead of 40-50 thousand schools that would have been built from 1917 to 1927

                And again, statements that are impossible to prove. Even if we consider not as beliefs, but as assumptions, then on what they are based .... only God knows.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 10 February 2021 21: 47
                  -5
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Ahhh ... So this is it

                  Aha: your conviction about my wrong, nothing supported (false).

                  Got it, no?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  And what do you need, the 21st century, if you yourself write above

                  20th century, what's not clear?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic

                  How does it bake in a frying pan, so sculpt everything in a row?
                  This set of words does not affect
                  the number of schools for 10 years, practically did not change
                  can not serve as proof of this
                  After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years

                  Maybe: the number of schools with thieves has NOT grown in ten years.

                  And before the thieves grew by 4 thousand schools a year.

                  Got it?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  Therefore, all honest people expect proof from you that not a single school was built. You state it - you prove it. And for this it is still necessary to prove that not a single school was destroyed and that not a single school was enlarged. So - go for it! You have to answer for the words.

                  What do you have to do with the people? belay lol

                  what was the number of schools before the thieves, the same remained after 10 years, which means that NOTHING was built (before the thieves, let me remind you, it increased by 4 thousand a year.

                  If, after titanic efforts to pull out the head with tongs, "give birth to a new school, then you can immediately shove it back - it is so FUNNY against the background of a common wild failure in the school building system
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  What is not the rule?

                  Themselves ... don't you think?
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  And again, statements that are impossible to prove. Even if we consider not as beliefs, but as assumptions, then on what they are based .... only God knows.

                  See above for the annual entry of schools
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 11 February 2021 08: 50
                    0
                    Aha: your statement about my being wrong is not supported by anything (false).
                    Got it, no?

                    Are you sane? I wrote to you about the primary documents of the discussed cash registers, the content of which refutes your words.


                    You have not provided a single document that confirms yours. And you say that I am not supporting my words with anything ?! Indeed, impudence is the second happiness.
                    Maybe: the number of schools with thieves has NOT grown in ten years.
                    And before the thieves grew by 4 thousand schools a year.
                    Got it?

                    It doesn't reach you that no one argues that the commissioning of new schools during the 20s was less than the introduction of new schools in the 10s. They tell you that your words about the fact that not a single new school has been built are a) nonsense b) a lie.
                    Don't you see the difference?
                    If, after titanic efforts to pull out the head with tongs, "give birth to a new school, then you can immediately shove it back - it is so FUNNY against the background of a common wild failure in the school building system

                    You can at least laugh, but at least one such school (let it be the first non-wooden school in Izhevsk for 800 students built in 1923-25) will refute this:
                    After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years

                    You will just be a laughing liar. Just nothing. Laugh further.
                    See above for the annual entry of schools

                    Look at the state of the country's economy and finances after the war and do not be delirious that after it the same allocations for the construction of new schools would have remained. You freeze the state of the country before the collapse of the economy and postpone it for a while after the collapse. Original. And if again you crave to send Shoe to the lover of charts, as you did last time, then first figure out what a logistic function is.

                    To summarize:
                    1) You did not provide evidence about the peasants and the emerging funds.
                    2) About the fact that not a single school was built in 10 years, you did not provide evidence.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 February 2021 13: 15
                      0
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Are you sane? ...

                      You are not, judging by the question.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      I wrote to you about the primary documents of the discussed cash registers, the content of which refutes your words.

                      Nothing refutes WHAT is wrong with you? fool
                      WHERE is the 20th century? Find, come, but for now you are already tired.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      It doesn't reach you that no one argues that the commissioning of new schools during the 20s was less than the introduction of new schools in the 10s. They tell you that your words about the fact that not a single new school has been built are a) nonsense b) a lie.
                      Don't you see the difference?

                      I see that you are lying and delusional: NO new schools were built in sight.


                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      You can at least laugh, but at least one such school (let it be the first non-wooden school in Izhevsk for 800 students built in 1923-25) refutes here is:
                      After the thief, NOT a SINGLE school was built for 10 years

                      This happens only in the sick minds of the hysterical. There are no more schools, which means there are NO new schools.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Look at the state of the country's economy and finances after the war and do not be delusional that after it the same allocations for the construction of new schools would remain.

                      Your "would" is worth less than a flat cake in a meadow, yes.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And if again you climb refer to the lover of graphics Shoe, as you did last time, then figure out first what a logistic function is.

                      You go to elementary school, how to master the course, come back.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      To summarize:
                      1) You did not provide evidence about the peasants and the emerging funds.
                      2) About the fact that not a single school was built in 10 years, you did not provide evidence.

                      And I wrote about the box office, but you yourself perfectly understood everything about schools.

                      Shame ....
                    2. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 11 February 2021 16: 54
                      -1
                      NOTHING refutes WHAT is wrong with you? fool

                      I'm fine, thank you. Refutes. Recorded, in accordance with the normative act, the contingent using the services - employees of zemstvo institutions, receiving salaries from zemstvo. If the action of the document also extended to the peasants, this would be reflected in the document. And this is not there.
                      WHERE is the 20th century? Find, come, but for now you are already tired.

                      Why look for the 20th century? What do you want from the 20th century? Just agonizing attempts not to look stupid in your unreasonable tenacity? This way you only aggravate your situation. The provisions of 1883 were extended indefinitely (on the PFR website in the "history" section, you can read it yourself if you don't believe me). It is also valid in the 20th century (before the second revolution).
                      I see that you are lying and delusional: NO new schools were built in sight.


                      Then this building does not exist.
                      This happens only in the sick minds of the hysterical. There are no more schools, which means there are NO new schools.

                      Except for you, no one here is hysterical.
                      Expressions "there are no more schools, which means there are NO new schools." and "there are no more people (population) - it means there are no new people (born)" - one logical form (you will learn what a logical form is from the Internet, personally, I personally would recommend you not the Internet, but Vinogradov's Uchpedgiz textbook "Logic" for schools). At least you can see the absurdity of the phrase you have built.
                      There are no more schools - it ONLY there are no more schools.
                      5 - (?) = 4. What is hidden under the question mark?
                      Your "would" is worth less than a flat cake in a meadow, yes.

                      Is that what you would like ..? lol
                      And instead of 40-50 thousand schools that were would built from 1917 to 1927

                      And if again you climb refer to the lover of graphics Shoe, as you did last time, then figure out first what a logistic function is.

                      And why did you single out the word "vzbredet"? Does it have anything to do with this ?:
                      You go to elementary school, how to master the course, come back.

                      And I wrote about the box office, but you yourself perfectly understood everything about schools.

                      1) What have you written about the box office? Give me the place in the correspondence where you "wrote something" that can somehow be counted as proof of the possibility of the participation of peasants in the zemstvo emergency cash offices. In the meantime, you continue to persist in the lie.
                      2) Yes, I understood perfectly well that you screwed up - for the stupidity "about not a single school built in 10 years after the revolution", you are shown a school built during this period.
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 12 February 2021 09: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      I'm fine, thank you. Refutes. Recorded, in accordance with the normative act, the contingent using the services - employees of zemstvo institutions, receiving salaries from zemstvo. If the action of the document also extended to the peasants, this would be reflected in the document. And this is not there.
                      WHERE is the 20th century? Find, come, but for now you are already tired.

                      Why look for the 20th century? What do you want from the 20th century? ...

                      What you need from the 19th century: social policy went by leaps and bounds and the 19th century is not similar to 1913.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      At least you can see the absurdity of the phrase you have built.

                      You are unable to understand a simple phrase: 5 = 5.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Is that what you would like ..?

                      Didn't get it? About it:
                      Quote: A vile skeptic
                      Look at the state of the country's economy and finances after the war and do not be delusional that after it the same allocations for the construction of new schools would remain.
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      1) What have you written about the box office? Give me the place in the correspondence where you "wrote something" that can somehow be counted as proof of the possibility of the participation of peasants in the zemstvo emergency cash offices. In the meantime, you continue to persist in the lie.

                      See above
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      2) screwed up

                      Wow! belay fool negative

                      All with you.
                      Fuuuu ...
                    4. Foul skeptic
                      Foul skeptic 12 February 2021 10: 38
                      0
                      Whoa! belay fool negative
                      All with you.
                      Fuuuu ...

                      Do not pretend to be a noble girl after this:
                      Shame ...

                      Your "would" is worth less than a flat cake in a meadow

                      sick minds of hysterical

                      The skeptical fool

                      What you need from the 19th century: social policy went by leaps and bounds and the 19th century is not like 1913.

                      The conversation was not about that, no need to move out. A conversation about your unconfirmed statement that the peasants had access to pensions through the zemstvo emerging funds, which did not exist either in the 19th or in the 20th century. In total, business, to close the topic - to provide you with a document confirming your words. And if you had it, you would have done it already. But it doesn't exist (it just doesn't exist). Everything is trite.
                      You are unable to understand a simple phrase: 5 = 5.

                      I can understand that 5 = 5 and 5-4 / 2 + 2 = 5 too.
                      Didn't get it? About it

                      It didn’t come to you that you are using the same particle “W” in the subjunctive mood in your “statements”, which means exactly the same your
                      ... "would" cost less than a flat cake in a meadow

                      applies to YOU ​​too.
                      See above

                      Look. No.
                      You do not have the elementary courage to admit your mistakes. Disappointed. Do not be ill.
                    5. Fat
                      Fat 12 February 2021 15: 26
                      -1
                      Hehe! And what kind of access did the collective farmers have to the USSR social security fund?
                      PS Andrey Olgovich may screw up in the heat of the moment, but the meticulous reader thinks soberly. To publicly admit this one. But he will still find weighty arguments in his favor ... laughing Transfer the request to you, Timur, and Andrey - "Holivar" in a personal.
                      "Later - report on the result of the investigation" (c) bully drinks laughing
                2. Fat
                  Fat 12 February 2021 15: 15
                  0
                  Timur. hi Where is this picture taken and when. The fact is that this is a typical project of the beginning of the century. Please answer. You can in a personal.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 10 February 2021 14: 09
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    See even the false Soviet statistics - the number of schools for 10 years, practically, has not changed

    over the first 10 years, the number practically did not change - the quality of education and the number of students changed. This is one and two, if in the first year of the Imperialist War, which did not become the Great Patriotic War for the people, no matter how hard the main traitor of Russia Nikolai II Romanov tried, the soldiers still went on the attack with the slogan: "For God, Tsar and Fatherland", then in the real GREAT PATRIOTIC, from the beginning to the very end of this war the slogan "For the Motherland! For Stalin!" ... I’m not talking about the call “Communists -Forward !!!” spat upon by various shape-shifters. , As well as about those spat upon by the same, statements before the battle - "Please consider me a communist" - was there? There was a shish from history you will erase! The people did everything for Victory




    Although various pseudo-historians, out of quiet sadness, try to remove the people's feat from our memory. If in Soviet times Libraries, Theaters were built (in Novosibirsk, the Opera and Ballet Theater, and other cultural centers appeared under Soviet Power) where the common people were introduced to the culture, now, all this is being destroyed. In the best way it is converted into shopping centers ... Olgovich, you would not think that you alone can read, and Soviet statistics, which you misinterpret with enviable persistence and persistence, and that ... "what was before the era of historical materialism ..."
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 February 2021 22: 13
      -4
      Quote: Fitter65
      over the first 10 years, the number practically did not change - the quality of education and the number of students changed.

      The quality, yes, has fallen at times, no paper, no pencils, I am already silent about the wretched wild so-called. agitation-"program" far from education.

      The number of students increased insignificantly, and then only in false stupid statistics.
      Quote: Fitter65
      And two, if in the first year of the Imperialist War, which for the people did not become the Great Patriotic War, no matter how hard the main traitor of Russia Nikolai II Romanov tried, the soldiers still went on the attack with the slogan: "For God, Tsar and Fatherland",

      During the Second World War, Russia was in 1917 on 2 thousand km west of the Volga ... And its losses were 9% of the world, and not 53%, like in the USSR (both figures are without China). Got it, didn't it?
      And there was Russia in 1917, on the lands of the occupiers of Awengria and Turkey and on the lands of Romania.

      And there has never been SUCH a wild number of its citizens, TRAITORS, who vehemently served the occupiers, as in the Second World War in the history of Russia. The number of deserters, deviators and criminals is also a record for the USSR.
      Quote: Fitter65
      then in the real GREAT DOMESTIC, from the beginning to the very end of this war the slogan "For the Motherland! For Stalin!" ... I’m already silent about the call “Communists -Forward !!!” spat upon by various shape-shifters.

      Correctly keep silent: people fought for their HOMELAND, like a THOUSAND years before.

      Or on the Kulikovo field and near Borodino Poltava they shouted: "Communists -Forward !!!"

      Not? Did they manage somehow? And many more people were saved? Aha! And somehow they built the MOST big country on the planet, hack it on your forehead.

      And with your "Forward !!!" ended up in such a "Behind!" by 1991, that already takes everyone away from the borders of the 17th century and extinction.
      Quote: Fitter65
      The people did everything for Victory

      Yes: the slogan "Everything for the front, everything for Victory" was in WWI and WWII.
      Quote: Fitter65
      If in Soviet times Libraries, Theaters were built (in Novosibirsk, the Opera and Ballet Theater, and other cultural centers appeared under Soviet Power) where common people were introduced to the culture, i.e.

      Yeah, they demolished and plundered TENS OF THOUSANDS of the history and culture of the Russian people, the tomb of Minin and Pozharsky, Bagration and Nakhimov, the warriors of the OV 1812 and RTR, PMV and RYA, unique masterpieces of Suzdal, Vladimir and other hundreds of cities of Ancient Russia and others. Rome was doing less
      Quote: Fitter65
      Olgovich would you did not think that you alone know how to read, and Soviet statistics, which you misinterpret with enviable persistence and persistence, and that ... "what was before the era of historical materialism ..."

      Don't torture her - you obviously can't do it, yeah lol
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 12 February 2021 17: 15
        0
        Quote: Olgovich
        And there has never been SUCH a wild number of its citizens, TRAITORS, who vehemently served the occupiers, as in the Second World War in the history of Russia. The number of deserters, deviators and criminals is also a record for the USSR.
        Well, it's hard to argue, especially to take into account how many opponents of the new government remained on the territory of the country, after the civil war, you don't have to go far, here you are a vivid example of a descendant of those ... Many, after all, served the invaders in the hope of returning the old system.
        Quote: Olgovich
        RTR, PMV and RYAV

        Brevity is the soul of wit.
        Quote: Olgovich
        demolished and plundered TENS OF THOUSANDS of the history and culture of the Russian people

        Well, that's how the Russian people seem to have joined those monuments of History and especially culture. If the people did not need them, then they demolished them without their yak. The people did not care, that's the result. Now there is the same degradation, we are demolishing cultural centers, building churches,
        Quote: Olgovich
        Or on the Kulikovo field and near Borodino Poltava they shouted: "Communists -Forward !!!"

        Well, they shouted or not, I can't say anything here, especially considering that near Poltava many officers were foreigners, and near Borodino, the bulk of Russian officers explained themselves mainly in French, so how do they know that the soldiers were yelling when they attacked.
        Quote: Olgovich
        During the Second World War, Russia was in 1917 2 thousand kilometers west of the Volga. And its losses were 9% of the world, and not 53%, like in the USSR (both figures are without China). Got it, didn't it?

        No, I didn't have forty centimeters - what does China have to do with it? And the loss of 53% is what, or from what, or who? And for you it may be the second patriotic, but for the people it was imperialist, in which the people were thrown to fight at all it is not clear why? And by the way, really for what?
        Quote: Olgovich
        And there was Russia in 1917, on the lands of the occupiers of Awengria and Turkey and on the lands of Romania.
        By the way, if I'm not mistaken, then
        On August 27, Romania declared war on Austria-Hungary, in response to this, the Central Powers declared war on Romania. Romania entered the First World War.
        It turns out that Romania was our ally. It turns out if you read that Russia has occupied the territory of an ally? And again, what are the primordially Russian lands, or the territories of the Russian Empire, were occupied by Austria-Hungary, Germany and Turkey in 1914?
        In 1914, the Russian army was forced to leave the western part of Poland, but occupied a significant part of Galicia and Bukovina, where the Galician General Government was created.
        So who occupied whom?
        The 1915 campaign was difficult for the Russian army. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers and officers were killed, wounded and taken prisoner. The Russian army left vast territories: Galicia, Bukovina, Poland, part of the Baltic states, Belarus.
        Hundreds of thousands were killed, but for what?
        The 1916 campaign was successful for the Russian army [83]. During the summer offensive, the Russian army inflicted a heavy defeat on the Austro-German troops and put Austria-Hungary on the brink of military defeat.
        THIS IS IT-HURRAY VICTORY!
        At the end of February (old style) - beginning of March 1917, a revolution took place in Russia. On March 2 (15), 1917, Nicholas II abdicated in favor of his brother Mikhail Alexandrovich. However, on March 3 (16), 1917, he renounced the Russian crown, leaving to determine the form of government in Russia to the Constituent Assembly.
        Opachki, what is it? It seems like there was no German near Petrograd? And who led this revolution? And returning to the number of traitors to this one, Nicholas # 2, one was enough. All. The dude has merged the country, and what you do not write there, he did not leave at the request of the Bolsheviks. And at the expense of 53%, explain.
    2. Fat
      Fat 12 February 2021 15: 42
      -1
      You are not right about everything. Not every regional city is capable of supporting at least just a philharmonic society and a national theater at its own expense, there are no words about the theater of opera and ballet at all - it's wildly expensive! And then who .... oyatkhovizovannye ghouls are honestly "bash" from "love of art" ....
  • Civil
    Civil 10 February 2021 10: 52
    +8

    Olgovich (Andrey)
    Today, 10: 39

    Understood, they decided to establish the empire. Like a dedicated autocracy) and you think they will write you into the new nobles? So by 1917 they were 0,2% of the population laughing
    No need to answer.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 10 February 2021 13: 49
      -7
      Quote: Civil
      Understood, they decided to establish the empire. Like a dedicated autocracy) and you think about the new nobles will write down?


      Duc, I write YOU there:

      -
      An ambush awaits us tomorrow at the safe house. We'll have to shoot back. We are delighted in this disturbing environment meet you exactly.

      They hope to take us alive, children! They don't know that there are more of us now


      I will give you parabellum.

      Do you know how to shoot back? (C)


      and then you won't answer, yes ...
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 16: 56
    0
    Quote: Olgovich
    There were 130-140 thousand schools in Russia. and hundreds of thousands of teachers

    Before the revolution, there were about 100 university students ... request
  • Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 10 February 2021 10: 40
    0
    Quote: Civil
    the word social would be the basis for the suspicions of the gendarmerie.

    I immediately remembered Sholokhov ...
    Selivanov is silent, and his face is changing more and more in one direction, then in another. Either he turns white, then red, but he is silent. I shod his fastener, I went to the tarantass. He does not seem to see me, hands the coachman a silver ruble and says: "Give it back to this boor." I took a ruble from the coachman and threw it into the tarantass at Selivanov's feet, and I myself smile, as if in surprise, and say: “What are you, brother, do they take money from relatives for such a little? I donate to you for poverty, stop by the tavern, drink to my health! " Here my landowner became neither white nor red, but some kind of blue; shrieks in a thin voice at me: “For your health ... May you die, scoundrel, boor, sicilist, so yours and so! I will complain to the village chieftain! I'll rot in prison! "
    Davydov laughed so deafeningly that a flock of sparrows fell from the roof of the forge in fright. Laughing into his beard, Shaly began to roll up his cigarette.
    - So you didn't get along with "brother?" - Barely pronouncing the words, asked Davydov.
    - We didn't get along.
    - And money? Did he throw it out of the tarantass?
    - I would have thrown him out ... I drove off with my ruble. It's not about the money, boy, it's ...
    - And in what?
    Davydov laughed so young and infectious that Shaly was amused too. He chuckled and waved his hand:
    - I got a little goofy ...
    - Speak, Sidorovich. What are you pulling? - Davydov stared at Shaly with eyes wet with tears.
    And he just waved his hand away and, opening wide his fenced mouth, laughed with a booming, thundering laugh.
    - Come on, tell me, don't let it go! - Davydov begged, who at that moment forgot about the recent serious conversation and completely surrendered himself to a momentary self-forgetful fit of fun.
    - But what can I say ... but what is really there! He, you see, is a guy, and he called me a boor, and a scoundrel, and in every way, and in the end he even choked altogether, the junkie caught his legs on the bottom of the tarantass and made a noise: “Sicilist, so and so! I'll put you in jail! " And at that time I did not know what a sicist was ... The revolution - I knew what it meant, but the "sicilist" did not know, and I thought then that this was the most heart-warming, heavy curse ... In response I told him I say: "You yourself are a sicist, son of a bitch, and get out of here before I kill you!"
    A new fit of laughter put Davydov on his back. Crazy gave him plenty of fun, finished:
    - And a day later I was driven to the village chieftain. He asked me how it was, laughed like you and let me go without incrimination under the stanitsa government. He himself was an officer from a poor family, well, he was flattered that a simple forge of a rich landowner could so embarrass. Just before escorting me out, he said: “You, Cossack, be careful, don’t dump your tongue out, otherwise the time is such that today you’re forging, and tomorrow you’ll be pummeled for all four, so that you’ll go all the way to Siberia. sneezed. Do you understand? " - "I see, I say, your honor." - “Well, go, and so that your spirit is not here. And I will inform Selivanov that I have lowered seven skins from you ”. So, guy, what were the things ...
  • andybuts
    andybuts 11 February 2021 08: 08
    0
    yes, no, "non-alcoholic vodka" sounds more organic than "social protection in Russia, which was lost by the guardians and monarchists." Maybe I missed something in the history books and in RI there were pensions, sick leave, paid vacations for workers?
    1. Fat
      Fat 12 February 2021 19: 29
      0
      No, Bro .... British treduions are still under-scalded to Russia. However, workers' settlements with "cool", for those times, infrastructure is an absolute truth. A normal entrepreneur will always be concerned with how to squeeze out the mercenaries as much as possible. Decent apartment buildings, libraries named after a patron of arts, yards for grazing goats ... There were pensions, but for their workers. "Obshchaka" with "nits" was not yet in trend at that time. Everything is fair, but stingy.
      Oh yes! I somehow forgot about the railway workers' union ... Can you tell us?
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 16: 52
    -2
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    After wars, revolutions, crises, the population inevitably becomes impoverished, only a handful of the elite are getting rich.

    maybe the revolutionaries were hanged correctly? request
  • zenion
    zenion 11 February 2021 18: 53
    0
    Lech from Android. All this is because there is no king. Previously, the king did not just kill dogs, cats and crows for his own pleasure. All this was given to the kitchens, where they prepared food for the poor. And from the skins they made hats for the poor, from the feathers of crows pillows. In addition, dog meat replaced pork, cats replaced hares and rabbits, and crows replaced pigeons. So the reigning lady had to wander all over Russia with a gun to feed the people. There is no king, the people are starving!
  • Far B
    Far B 10 February 2021 05: 27
    +17
    The article is a complete propaganda insanity. There was no social protection in tsarist Russia, as systems... Didn't exist! The examples given are just special cases. Someone patronized-philanthropist - honor and praise for this. And someone was burning their lives. In some peasant community it was customary to provide assistance to poor fellow countrymen, but in some it was not accepted. And so - on all counts. The Bolsheviks, having prescribed "the text of the decree on newsprint" (according to the author), took upon themselves commitment... And we tried to fulfill it by building system social protection. Didn't succeed right away? And even cats will not be born right away. But they nevertheless built the system. Well, and what took place under the tsarism, we can see very well now - some of the moneybags and indeed from the shoulder of the master throws people crumbs to help. But these are just crumbs. And the majority of alligators in general gave up on any charity - they build yachts and palaces for themselves. And the narodishko - narodishko sms-kami to children for treatment collects denyuzhka. Was it different under the sovereign-anpirator? Yes, never. It is enough to read contemporaries - Gilyarovsky, Korolenko, early Green, the same Gorky. For some reason, they believe more than the propagandist Shpakovsky.
    Although it's funny that this author decided to harness himself for tsarism. A new direction in creativity? Or is it a new trend among propagandists?
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 10 February 2021 05: 38
      +2
      Do not argue loyally dear. smile
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 06: 12
      -7
      .....new direction.....
      not at all. There was already an article on this topic. But, apparently, you are not familiar. And on related topics there were, which can be learned from the profile. Difficult topic lol but somehow it is necessary to master it. wassat Write more about Russia, which has been lost. (Sarcasm am )
      1. Far B
        Far B 10 February 2021 06: 32
        0
        There has already been an article on this topic. But, apparently, you are not familiar
        Obviously unfamiliar. I had occasion to read Shpakovsky's illiterate propaganda opuses that the collective farmers were powerless slaves, screwed to the ground by evil communist bolts. About how the slave labor of prisoners in the Gulag system was mercilessly exploited. Still about something, wait I really do not remember. But we must pay tribute to Mr. Caliber - for the tsarist regime in my memory, he somehow did not openly harness. And here - on you! I will not say that it is like a butt on the head, but interesting, interesting ... I will observe - a trend, or how?
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 10 February 2021 06: 38
          -2
          Keywords---in your memory ..... hi harnessed, harnessed for the tsarist regime, only rarely and carefully .... apparently, a difficult topic after everything that happened in life. lol
          A --- must be mastered (sarcasm)
          Take the time to study the profile, articles first. You will discover interesting.
          1. Far B
            Far B 10 February 2021 06: 43
            -2
            Take the time to study the profile
            laughing Dismiss laughing I have never seen a more mediocre propagandist in my life. I will start to study his works in this field - I will degrade myself, but do I need it?
            Py.Sy. But when he writes about heraldry, about knights - another matter! Even reading is pleasant.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 10 February 2021 06: 46
              -3
              lol wassat fear nothing. Start familiarizing yourself with the names. This is enough for a start.
              What were the words about incomplete knowledge? After all, these same thoughts may be in the comments to other articles ...
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 10 February 2021 07: 37
                -8
                Quote: Reptiloid
                fear nothing

                Dima, why are you so excited with your comrades? The article is not bad, competent and interesting.
                Yes, Dima, and under the bloody tsarist regime there was a system of social protection for people.
                And, you think in a Trotskyist way, not in a Leninist way.
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 10 February 2021 07: 45
                  +2
                  Why be afraid of articles? Have you seen an article on this topic yourself?
                  Are you learning to think like Lenin? Since when?
                  I suppose that under Soviet power, people received education and housing and medicine without any benefactors. You lived more than mine in the USSR. Why are you crying for the king?
                  1. bober1982
                    bober1982 10 February 2021 07: 51
                    -5
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    Why are you crying for the king?

                    Comrades, the whole story begins in 1917, before this memorable year according to the Trotskyist teachings - one big black hole with bloody satraps existed.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 07: 55
                      -1
                      I wonder when you studied Trotsky? After all, the author wrote earlier that this could not have been done under the USSR, was not available? Or as liberals became with us, so you soon ran away and Trotsky acquired and studied
                      1. kalibr
                        10 February 2021 08: 52
                        0
                        Dima, now you don't need to buy. Everything can be read online.
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 10 February 2021 12: 21
                        +1
                        Quote: kalibr
                        Dima, now you don't need to buy. Everything can be read online.
                        how do you know that in the 90s Vladimir used the Internet to read Trotsky?
                2. kalibr
                  10 February 2021 08: 59
                  -4
                  Quote: Reptiloid
                  medicine without any benefactors

                  Dima, here's an interesting story about medicine. In 2004, my daughter wrote a dissertation on the folding of the PR system in Russia. It began to take shape in 1989, and as of 2004, not all of the documents were received in the archive. Therefore, she was allowed to work in the current archive of the Governor of Penza. And there she found a curious document about the adoption of children by foreigners from 1989. There was a list of diseases that are not treated in the USSR. And if a foreigner wanted to take a child to the USSR, then he only needed a certificate that such a disease is being treated, say, in the USA and he is ready to pay for its treatment. The list was ... impressive. Of course, the diseases there were rare and completely terrible. But ... there they were treated, but we do not. That is, our children were a priori doomed to die. And there ... they could be cured. I don't like this kind of primitive medicine in the XNUMXth century. So she could not do without benefactors even in the USSR.
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 10 February 2021 12: 23
                    +3
                    Being treated and cured are different things. Seisas in the paid center will treat everything. And the result
                    1. kalibr
                      10 February 2021 13: 02
                      -4
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      Being treated and cured are different things.

                      Dima! Strain your brain. THEN EVEN YOU DID NOT TREAT!
                    2. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 15: 04
                      +1
                      Your formulation --- treated, not treated contains some kind of gag. I will only believe the document and the given facts.
                      For example, in some old book about a psychiatric hospital under the king, it was written that the sick were tied, tied, poured with cold water. .... That's how they treated.
                      How were you treated abroad, how many were cured? How was it not treated with us? Did the doctor send it away or did the ambulance not come? And do not forget that in that America has always been legalized, folk, alternative medicine of sorcerers and healers. They have the right to write prescriptions. I have no doubt that they cure absolutely all diseases (sarcasm), as well as Indian shamans and Filipino surgeons.
                    3. kalibr
                      10 February 2021 16: 07
                      -1
                      Dima, I don't need your faith, and I can't give you a document, since this was in 2004. But what's the point of deceiving you? Lies for the sake of lies, stupid. And I will not be richer from this.
                    4. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 16: 41
                      +2
                      Well yes! fellow Well, yes, there are documents, but they are secret! bully bully Rhetorical question ----- why should I cheat? has many answers ..... of course, to outright deception, you most likely will not go .. but "incomplete knowledge" can be provided .... recourse , that is, not complete coverage of the subject, a similar technique is used now by different piarasists (or PRs?), maybe you described this in which book of yours ........
                      In any case, in the long-standing discussion about Stolypin was.
                      The devil is in the details. What koiniks or what shamans treated those diseases in the USA? In market medicine, everything is treated in a variety of ways. They had no idea about the possibilities of such a thing in the USSR and they treated such certificates with confidence
                    5. kalibr
                      10 February 2021 16: 44
                      -2
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      now different piarasti (or PR?),

                      Dima, but here you can't be so ignorant: PR people, PR people - that's right, remember, please.
                    6. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 19: 57
                      +2
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      now different piarasti (or PR?),

                      Dima, but here you can't be so ignorant: PR people, PR people - that's right, remember, please.

                      No no, fellow , probably it's better not the way you wrote it now, but as you write you often ----such, all sorts and dots.
                      SUCH.....
                      EVERYTHING ..... DIFFERENT ..... this is written below now .....
                      . Undoubtedly, as you write with ellipses should be.
        2. Unknown
          Unknown 10 February 2021 14: 55
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          The list was ... impressive. Of course, the diseases there were rare and completely terrible. But ... there they were treated, but we do not. That is, our children were a priori doomed to die. And there ... they could be cured. I don't like this kind of primitive medicine in the XNUMXth century. So she could not do without benefactors even in the USSR.

          Name, rare and completely terrible diseases, which were not treated in the USSR, but were treated in the USA? An interesting wording could. And if you couldn't? That is exactly what they could, prolong and alleviate suffering, with painkillers, which are terribly expensive by their standards. If diseases were not cured in the USSR, then in the United States they were not cured either. Most of the residents were fine, but not a former teacher or a member of the CPSU. Better G.A. Elizarova and his Kurgan Research Institute of Experimental and Clinical Orthopedics and Traumatology (KNIIEKOT) are not in the world. Thanks to the apparatus named after the inventor, thousands of guys from hospitals went home on their feet. But Mr. Shpakovsky cannot but kick the Soviet power, even in the field of medicine.
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 16: 11
            -2
            I would have known that I would have to throw beads in front of different ... of course, I would have copied. But then it never crossed my mind. Nobody knows their fate. For example, I had all the materials of the congresses in the USSR. And only the "Short Course" for the 45th year and the book of Voznesensky have survived. It is impossible to foresee how many and what kind of people you will meet on the way ... And we have always had some breakthroughs and not only in medicine, and in large numbers. Yes, and with Elizarov too ...
          2. kalibr
            10 February 2021 16: 17
            -2
            Quote: Unknown
            Most residents were satisfied

            This is not an indicator. Most of them are yesterday's peasants in the first generation and they were glad that they weren't casting under the fence ...
          3. Unknown
            Unknown 10 February 2021 19: 53
            +2
            Quote: kalibr
            This is not an indicator. Most of them are yesterday's peasants in the first generation and they were glad that they weren't casting under the fence ...

            Are your ancestors of blue blood? Maybe they are listed in the velvet book of the nobility of R.I., and the Rurikovichs nervously smoke on the sidelines? But probably, from rags to riches, thanks to the Soviet power, they received an education, and already in the third generation they consider themselves to be such patricians of the new time. It's a pity for your brothers there is no Mao Zedong with his cultural revolution, send everyone to agricultural work, there in the fresh air, at work in the fields, the right thoughts will immediately come to mind.
          4. kalibr
            10 February 2021 20: 19
            -2
            Quote: Unknown
            Can be entered in the velvet book of the nobility of R.I.,

            Imagine. In the 6th, if I'm not mistaken. Not direct, but ... at least I have some right. And the coat of arms is very beautiful. There will be another article on the topic of heraldry - there will be about it. Go to VO.
          5. Unknown
            Unknown 10 February 2021 21: 38
            0
            Quote: kalibr

            Imagine. In the 6th, if I'm not mistaken. Not direct, but ... at least I have some right. And the coat of arms is very beautiful. There will be another article on the topic of heraldry - there will be about it. Go to VO

            What are you talking about !? I wonder why it is only now that many party functionaries have remembered their noble roots? What is it for? All this resembles such a lizard called the Chameleon. The oldest known chameleon was found in Europe (the find is about 26 million years old). Dinosaurs became extinct, but these remained, what an adaptability! So Mr. Shpakovsky, will survive everyone, will change more than one government, but if he has enough health, but people like him will definitely have enough.
          6. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 21: 52
            0
            Quote: Unknown
            I wonder why it is only now that many party functionaries have remembered their noble roots?

            Heh, look at the stamp that Mikhalkov composes.
          7. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 10 February 2021 23: 41
            +2
            There was an article about the communist relatives of the author long ago. And there is about food appropriation (or tax in kind, I don’t remember exactly, it was) And about changing the name. And now, that, again it's time to change the name. Whether . Noble. That's what.
          8. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 23: 59
            +1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            There was an article about the communist relatives of the author long ago.

            Only nothing is written about his uncle Misha, who during the war, after being captured, served in the Great Germany division. A muddy story.
          9. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 11 February 2021 00: 25
            +2
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Quote: Reptiloid
            There was an article about the communist relatives of the author long ago.

            Only nothing is written about his uncle Misha, who during the war, after being captured, served in the Great Germany division. A muddy story.

            Yes, very, very interesting and completely unknown to me. And then you should look at the change of surname in a completely, completely different way. New horizons are opening up, Vladimir. Yes, it would be nice to read about it where ... but we will not do what research and spend our time ... and so it is not enough ...
          10. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 11 February 2021 00: 30
            0
            And Mikhail was captured by our troops in the 45th year in the uniform of a Haupsturmführer. Ugh on them, you better stay away.
          11. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 11 February 2021 00: 34
            0
            Here's what. And how then. recourse recourse
          12. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 11 February 2021 00: 39
            -1
            Quote: Reptiloid
            How then

            And then you will understand figs, conflicting information, reluctance to dig, and still you will not get to the bottom of the truth. Better not to touch this pile. I'm going to sleep.
          13. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 11 February 2021 00: 43
            +1
            I'll see what's unread hi hi all the best.
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 06
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    I don't like this kind of primitive medicine in the XNUMXth century.

    getting to the USSR for a tomograph was problematic ... request
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 05
    0
    Quote: Reptiloid
    I suppose that under Soviet power, people received education and housing and medicine without any benefactors

    not all and not always ... request very much depended on where they lived (in Moscow or Tmutarakan), where they worked (military plant or library) request
  • Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 08: 00
    +5
    Quote: bober1982
    under the bloody tsarist regime, there was a system of social protection of people.

    I only see charitable donations from individual representatives of the bourgeoisie.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 10 February 2021 08: 15
      -3
      Quote: Mordvin 3
      I only see charitable donations from individual representatives of the bourgeoisie

      In the USSR, the historical experience in the field of charity was completely rejected.
      As reported in TSB (1927 edition):
      "Charity is a phenomenon peculiar only to class society. The concept of charity is alien to the social system of the USSR."
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 08: 24
        +7
        Quote: bober1982
        Charity -

        it is not a system.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 10 February 2021 08: 31
          -6
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          it is not a system.

          In tsarist Russia, this was the system, both state and private.
        2. kalibr
          10 February 2021 08: 50
          -5
          What is it then?
        3. DrEng527
          DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 07
          -1
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          it is not a system.

          find out the meaning of this word ... hi
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 10: 50
        +4
        Quote: bober1982
        "Charity is a phenomenon peculiar only to class society

        And what is wrong with this thesis?
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 10 February 2021 11: 01
          -2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          And what is wrong with this thesis?

          From the point of view of the theory of class struggle, everything is correct, otherwise they could not speak, because ....... under socialism, charity is not needed, since poverty and want have been eliminated in society.
          By the way, there was also a Soviet charity, but this, for obvious reasons, was not mentioned.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 11: 10
          +1
          Quote: bober1982
          By the way, there was also a Soviet charity, but this, for obvious reasons, was not mentioned.

          Material assistance at the enterprises was provided, no more. Or are there any other examples?
        3. bober1982
          bober1982 10 February 2021 11: 13
          -2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Or are there any other examples?

          Hungry people from Ethiopia and, unemployed, homeless people in America.
        4. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 12: 44
          +3
          Yes, but this is a banal promotion of socialism. Not charity. The article is not about that. Today they also send humanitarian aid.
        5. bober1982
          bober1982 10 February 2021 13: 05
          -1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The article is not about that.

          The article says only that in Tsarist Russia there was help to people, and there were traditions of Russian charity, which were destroyed during the years of Soviet power. Only mutual aid funds and various Foundations that promoted socialism remained.
        6. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 10 February 2021 14: 42
          +1
          Quote: bober1982
          There remained only mutual aid funds and various Foundations that promoted socialism.

          In general, yes, your reasons are listed above. No need for a charity institution.
      3. Free wind
        Free wind 10 February 2021 17: 15
        +3
        Some kind of signatures were collected from students, well, it seems like we are against something there, and we collected money, well, it used to be 50 kopecks from students, maybe some kind of starving African, also a kind of charity.
    2. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 07
      +1
      Quote: bober1982
      people from Ethiopia and, unemployed, homeless in America.

      collected a parcel in the 2nd class to Vietnam ...
    3. bober1982
      bober1982 10 February 2021 17: 37
      0
      Quote: DrEng527
      collected a parcel in the 2nd class to Vietnam ...

      It's okay, the parcel .... it's good.
      And, in 1979, we - cadets of the military school, were asked (ordered) to write a statement about our desire to fight as a volunteer on the side of the Vietnamese, then they had a military conflict with the Chinese. They wrote such a statement to the entire cadet battalion, political bodies reported ... ..in one fit, ready, etc.
      Nobody, of course, sent it anywhere, but everyone was satisfied.
    4. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 58
      +1
      Quote: bober1982
      but everyone was satisfied.

      and we had to learn the structure of the Chinese rifle battalion ... repeat
  • Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 10 February 2021 12: 29
    +2
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Quote: bober1982
    under the bloody tsarist regime, there was a system of social protection of people.

    I only see charitable donations from individual representatives of the bourgeoisie.

    Aha! Some representatives of the bourgeoisie socially defended against other representatives of the bourgeoisie, who established a grueling working day with scanty pay! Also, the "noble classes" "were exempted from taxes and recruiting.
    1. Kote Pan Kokhanka
      Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 February 2021 20: 57
      0
      Quote: Reptiloid
      Aha! Some representatives of the bourgeoisie socially defended against other representatives of the bourgeoisie, who established a grueling working day with scanty pay! Also, the "noble classes" "were exempted from taxes and recruiting.

      Before throwing beads, maybe Dmitry should compare the working day in the Russian Empire with other states? In 1907 it was 10 and a half hours a day, and definitely more than in Australia with its 8 hours, but less than in Germany with 11 with a tail. In fact, the working day in Russia was in the golden mean. Now it's worth comparing the number of weekends and holidays! Drum roll, 13 days more than in modern Russia.

      Although what is the point of telling the truth if it is not interesting for either neo-communist or neo-monarchists! These categories suffer from the past, but reject everything that is outside the rheumatic heart disease of their blissful picture.
      Another example - a simple St. Petersburg electrician received a salary of 100 rubles - that's 125000 rubles today. I could afford to rent a three-room apartment with two servants! From this to remain dissatisfied with the authorities. If you haven't guessed, I give a hint from whom Lenin was hiding in June 17, before going to the Finnish mowers! If I am not mistaken, the name was bore by the electrician Alazovich, his daughter was married to Stalin.
      The problematic issue was with the peasantry, of whom over 90%.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 10 February 2021 21: 30
        +1
        hi I welcome you, Vlad! recourse recourse puzzled. I didn't seem to say anything like that, considering the continuation of the proverb you mentioned.
        Life was very different. In our city, anyway. To a greater extent, I know the Petrograd side. In this respect. I have been in different houses for work. I have been in “combs” apartments, narrow rooms that the only tenant rented out “from himself.” In some small rooms there were 10 shift workers. also in a large apartment, a view of the Cathedral, the high first floor, where, yes, he lived like a factory master with his family.It is known that the Child had a nanny, his own room, a bird in a cage ... I went to pre-revolutionary baths .... Now many of these baths are gone, this is an anachronism
    2. kalibr
      10 February 2021 20: 57
      0
      Quote: Reptiloid
      grueling working day with meager pay

      How many holidays were there when no one was working? And the scanty salary ... it was that of the ensigns, cornets, lieutenants ... comparable to the salary ... of many workers. Be more inquisitive: all the data how much and who was paid today is on the Web. And how many holidays were in RI, not working days.
  • kalibr
    10 February 2021 07: 43
    -6
    Quote: Dalny V
    When he writes about heraldry, about knights - it's another matter! Even reading is pleasant.

    This is because you don't know anything about it. But also including propaganda. But you think you understand ... But this is a mistake.
    1. Far B
      Far B 10 February 2021 07: 48
      -1
      This is because you do not understand anything.
      I agree, not much in the subject (although I was interested in heraldry). Therefore, it is interesting to read your articles on these topics (besides, they are unbiased laughing )
      But also including propaganda. But you think you understand ... But this is a mistake
      Sure? laughing
      1. kalibr
        10 February 2021 08: 49
        -4
        This one is also unbiased. All figures are taken from available sources. And they clearly show what was and what was not at all. And, accordingly, what difficult tasks the new government faced in the end. But you do not see this point-blank. And you also ask if I'm sure? Of course I'm sure. Although there may be something else here. You just do not want to think a little, you are just a priori biased against any analytical materials on the past. Only black and white. No semitones ... But that's bad too.
        1. Far B
          Far B 10 February 2021 08: 58
          -2
          All figures are taken from available sources
          Vyacheslav, once again: your propaganda methods do not work for me, your level is not the same. Numbers are a good thing, but the context in which these numbers are woven plays a major role. Remind you about 0.5 cups? It remains to decide whether the glass is still half full or half empty laughing
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 10: 31
            -6
            Don't remind me of anything. The article talks about what very few people know or don't want to know about. And we all know how all the successes and failures of tsarist Russia ended in 1917. Obviously, the 17th would not have happened if all was well. Including in the field of social protection. Which was obviously insufficient. That is, there is a systemic crisis of the autocracy. And this must be repeated? Is it unknown? It is just about replacing some forms of social protection with others and the difficulties along the way. The materials will be several and very detailed. The list of recommended sources is in the following article
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 10
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              That is, there is a systemic crisis of the autocracy.

              There was a crisis, but the level of denigration of the realities of Ingushetia in the USSR went off scale ... request
            2. kalibr
              10 February 2021 20: 53
              -1
              Quote: DrEng527
              slandering the realities of RI in the USSR went off scale ...

              And it's clear why. Their successes seemed so much more significant! After all, what is most dangerous for any system is comparable information.
            3. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 12: 46
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              After all, what is most dangerous for any system is comparable information.

              Why - you can now write anything about the achievements of the USSR - I lived there in my mature years and I know ... bully
            4. kalibr
              11 February 2021 13: 52
              -2
              Quote: DrEng527
              write about the achievements of the USSR

              The result of any achievements is important, and the result of the achievements of the USSR was 1991, and this set them all to zero!
            5. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 14: 37
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              The result of any achievements is important,

              not entirely true - RI also died, but this does not negate her achievements ... request
              Nothing is eternal under the Moon....
            6. kalibr
              11 February 2021 15: 55
              -2
              Quote: DrEng527
              RI also died, but this does not negate her achievements.

              Certainly. There are always achievements. They were even in fascist Germany, and in the most diverse areas ... How much did we bring ourselves from her?
            7. DrEng527
              DrEng527 11 February 2021 15: 59
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Even fascist Germany had them, and in various areas ...

              who argues request
              Quote: kalibr
              How much did we bring ourselves from it?

              a little ... we are kind ... IA1 refused the contribution in 1814 ...
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 09
    +1
    Quote: kalibr
    You are simply biased a priori against any analytical materials on the past. Only black and white. No semitones ... But that's also bad.

    so afraid to find out the truth - the system of views will collapse - the king is naked ... request
  • Svarog
    Svarog 10 February 2021 18: 58
    +2
    Quote: kalibr
    This is because you do not understand anything.

    I would have known that I would have to throw beads in front of different ...

    Oh, how nice it is to deal with half-educated people.

    Hmm .. here, as they say, no comment .. You still have to study, study and study ..
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 20: 54
      -2
      Quote: Svarog
      You still have to study, study and study ..

      What and from whom? I don't see worthy teachers ...
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 10 February 2021 21: 11
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Quote: Svarog
        You still have to study, study and study ..

        What and from whom? I don't see worthy teachers ...

        At least it would be worthy to answer questions and conduct polemics .. otherwise, they imagined themselves to be a professor .. A truly intelligent, educated person will never defend his position with the help of such turns:
        This is because you do not understand anything.

        I would have known that I would have to throw beads in front of different ...

        Oh, how nice it is to deal with half-educated people.

        At the same time, you use sources that you select purely for yourself and which have little to do with reality .. which is a distortion of the facts.
        And the facts about RI are very sad. And a person who supports the monarchy either knows very little about that period .. or deliberately distorts the facts .. well, there is still an option that he believes that he would certainly be a nobleman .. and would live comfortably on the money that the serfs would earned .. In my opinion, such a person is not developed emotionally .. he can be educated, but absolutely not have a sense of empathy .. which means that the perception of the world in such a person is limited.
        1. kalibr
          11 February 2021 14: 00
          -2
          Quote: Svarog
          which have little to do with reality .. which is a distortion of the facts.

          As if you know at least some sources at all-ha-ha. The history of the USSR for secondary schools is your source for all times!
  • kalibr
    10 February 2021 07: 41
    -4
    Quote: Reptiloid
    difficult topic

    Oh, Dima, at last ... But I'm not writing out of my head, but on the basis of documents and sources. And all of them must be found and read. It takes time. Not all at once.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 10 February 2021 08: 01
      0
      I meant, Vyacheslav, the difficulty of the topic for your biography in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, taking into account your grandfather, mother, stepfather,. .... That some memories of those installations still remained ...
      Although many of today's former communists calmly praise the tsar and that time.
      1. kalibr
        10 February 2021 08: 02
        0
        Quote: Reptiloid
        That some memories of those installations still remained ...

        What do you mean? What are the "settings"?
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 10 February 2021 08: 05
          -1
          Who, under the USSR, praised life under the tsar? That's what.
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 08: 44
            -3
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Who, under the USSR, praised life under the tsar? That's what.

            I have not heard that. Although there were a lot of private memories of how they lived in families, including ours. That is, private life was good, but common life under the king was bad. This is if it is considered roughly and primitively.
            1. DrEng527
              DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 12
              +1
              Quote: kalibr
              This is if it is considered roughly and primitively.

              This is true, especially when you look at the buildings of schools / hospitals / libraries / universities, which were built under the Tsar and the USSR hi
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 10 February 2021 08: 06
      +4
      So I'm not writing out of my head, but on the basis of documents and sources.

      I am waiting for a note on such a "document" as a private report by NS. Khrushchev "On the personality cult and its consequences".
      1. kalibr
        10 February 2021 08: 40
        0
        This is bad, Sergei. I don't have it in my hands and I have never dealt with this topic.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 10 February 2021 19: 24
          +3
          I don't have it in my arms

          And not in the Penza archive?
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 20: 22
            -1
            Well, this is the local archive, where does it come from? And even then it is closed, as well as the archive of the OK KPSS. Only if the problem with calculating the pension ...
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 10 February 2021 20: 27
              +3
              You have some strange idea about local archives. Well, okay, the topic is not interesting for you, closed. I brought this report to that as a "document". that he is utterly deceitful. Not so long ago, even some Canadian researched it in detail and confirmed this fact. So there are documents and "documents".
              1. kalibr
                11 February 2021 15: 58
                -2
                Quote: Aviator_
                Not so long ago, even some Canadian researched it in detail and confirmed this fact.

                But when Khrushchev was reading it, none of the Stalinists in the Politburo, and there were no others there, after all, they did not stand up and said a word against, did they? And why did "some Canadian" do it? Where are our historians, why not them?
              2. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 11 February 2021 19: 42
                +1
                Where are our historians, why not them?

                This is a question from a member of the CPSU to a non-party member, why did he not do anything? Probably because the propagandists from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union urgently began to teach in the field of PR, and the non-partisan was and is engaged in gas dynamics. By the way, the report was read without further discussion just before the closing of the congress, Ph.D. n. I must know this. Khrushchev knew all the hardware games and the "anti-party groups" were later dispersed by him ("... and Shepilov, who joined them").
              3. kalibr
                11 February 2021 20: 39
                -2
                Well, you see, you yourself understand everything. All Stalin's fosterlings did not care about him and his course, it was important for them to find the mercy of Khrushchev, and principles to the side. So it was with our department: the discipline that we taught was canceled, and the family needs to be fed. So you better say thank you that I didn’t shake the old days and didn’t go to Chechnya as a bullet shooting instructor! The diploma was ...
              4. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 11 February 2021 21: 57
                +1
                did not go to Chechnya as a bullet shooting instructor! The diploma was ...

                You see, they don't ask for diplomas in war. There is a slightly different way of using barreled weapons. And yet, on whose side in Chechnya were you going to "shake things up", for which I suddenly have to thank you?
              5. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 12 February 2021 12: 25
                +1
                hi I welcome, Sergey!
                Quote: Aviator_
                did not go to Chechnya as a bullet shooting instructor! The diploma was ...

                You see, they don't ask for diplomas in war. There is a slightly different way of using barreled weapons. And yet, on whose side in Chechnya were you going to "shake things up", for which I suddenly have to thank you?
                The class is simple! (Sarcasm) Can't you guess who needed a bullet shooting instructor?
                And "to shake the old days" is doubly interesting if we know that after the institute there was a village. Or what I misunderstood?
              6. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 12 February 2021 17: 11
                +1
                Hi Dmitry. Well, the author set himself up, and I could not resist. As in the story of O. Henry, when one trapper, according to the law of blood feud, went to New York for the offender and was stunned by the city bustle, he stood like a pillar among the streams of people and cars. So there, at this stunned provincial, a newspaper boy threw a banana peel with the words: "And you don't want to, but such an opportunity must not be missed."
              7. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 12 February 2021 17: 36
                +1
                Quote: Aviator_
                Hi Dmitry. Well, the author set himself up, and I could not resist. As in the story of O. Henry, when one trapper, according to the law of blood feud, went to New York for the offender and was stunned by the city bustle, he stood like a pillar among the streams of people and cars. So there, at this stunned provincial, a newspaper boy threw a banana peel with the words: "And you don't want to, but such an opportunity must not be missed."

                I was somehow overly surprised by such new information and, out of surprise, did not put it in the best way laughing I try to read the articles started to the end of all the comments. Often such interesting topics appear at the end. laughing
  • kalibr
    11 February 2021 20: 45
    -2
    Quote: Aviator_
    You have some strange idea about local archives.

    Are you saying you know them better than me? And their leaders in my city are good friends of yours, so you know everything about them? Anything can be in the archive of your city. What is in mine - I know ...
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 11 February 2021 21: 54
    +1
    The rules for regional archives are the same throughout the Russian Federation. Didn't you know that? Dating has no role here.
  • Svarog
    Svarog 10 February 2021 18: 59
    +1
    Quote: kalibr

    Oh, Dima, at last ... So I'm not writing out of my head, but on the basis of documents and sources

    How do you select the sources?
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 20: 24
      +1
      In the second chapter there will be a list of literature. And the principle is - what has not been written about yet. This is the fun part! That is, what there is a lot about, including Internet sites and what anyone can find, I'm not interested.
  • Civil
    Civil 10 February 2021 10: 13
    +6
    Quote: Dalny V
    I will observe - a trend, or how?

    Yazh seems to have written:
    1. This is the last elections to the State Duma, then they decided not to indulge. There will be another system so that there are no random people.
    2. The monarchy will be officially proclaimed. In one form or another. Without these ridiculous democratic decorations.
    3. The same thing with the nobility. It is not clear what the name will be, but life and inheritance titles will be introduced.
    4. And the people will swallow in silence. Because they are terpily. what Well, including me.
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 10 February 2021 06: 52
    +6
    Quote: Dalny V
    Article - complete propaganda insanity

    Better not to say.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 February 2021 07: 01
    -8
    The author does not claim that there was a social system in the Russian Empire, he just directly points out its absence and above describes its non-systemic, but diverse forms.
    Now some numbers!
    The family of the raging proletariat V.I. Lenin, after the death of his father (by the way, as far as I remember, who replaced the position in the Simbirsk province by education equal to the general's in the table of ranks) received 1200 rubles a year. Very, very much, and 600 rubles were due to the mother, 300 minor children each.
    That is, the intelligentsia, at least, had social guarantees and pensions. And the salaries were not small. The teacher, as mentioned above, Vyacheslav Olegovich received 30 rubles, a paramedic in a hospital with a doctor 35, a paramedic in a rural hospital, where a doctor is not provided 55, etc. In fact, you can compare this with modern realities, economists propose to multiply the wages of the beginning of the last century by 1250! Thus, an advanced worker in Penza who received tsarist rubles 40 in translation into real reality would receive 50 rubles. By the way, janitors had a similar salary in the capital !!!
    No less significant than private patronage was the charity of the spouses of emperors and grand duchesses of the Romanov dynasty. The first hospitals, the maintenance of despicable houses, almshouses, educational institutions for orphans and veterans, and the red cross itself is the merit of the august second halves - the wives of Alexandrov I, II, III, Nicholas I.
    In addition to the two listed, the church was also engaged in charity.
    Now the other side of the coin. By and large, the bulk of the population of Russia - the peasants - was excluded from this "social unsystematic"! Moreover, the socio-economic gap began to grow at the beginning of the 20th century. The presence of a charitable library in a neighboring large village did not resolve the issue of pension. By the way, in the first years of Soviet power, it was also not resolved !!!
    The most important thing that the young republic did was that it made incredible efforts to educate its citizens. It is free medicine and education that have become the cornerstone in the formation of the institution of power.
    Respectfully, Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the interesting topic!
    1. Far B
      Far B 10 February 2021 07: 18
      +4
      The author does not claim that there was a social system in the Russian Empire
      How does it not claim? And what's that? (quote from article):
      And the thing is that system social protection of the population in tsarist Russia took shape gradually over many, many decades and consisted of different structural elements.
      1. kalibr
        10 February 2021 07: 52
        -6
        Any social phenomenon consisting of a number of elements is a system. You open any textbook on sociology, political science, cultural studies. Any. Another thing is the structuring of this system, its constituent elements. It is written to you in black letters: "it developed gradually over many, many decades and consisted of various structural elements." But systems are different - perfect and imperfect. For example, at the level available to you: the MP-18 submachine gun is a system. And PPSh-41 is also a system, and the first system is the basis of the second system. But the second system is more perfect than the first in a number of parameters. Got it? But the second, more perfect, did not appear immediately, but on the basis of the first, taking into account its shortcomings. Is it clear or to chew?
        1. Far B
          Far B 10 February 2021 08: 12
          -4
          Is it clear or to chew?
          Take care of the chewing machine, it will come in handy again.
          "System is a set of elements in relationships and connections with each other, which forms a certain integrity, unity". Did not have unity... One rich man says: I will unfasten money for my Tretyakov Gallery. And the other says - well, nafik, I'd rather daddy's dough in cards, on girls and on booze. This is not a system.
          In one village, a popular gathering says: we need to provide for widows and orphans - they will grow up, they will reward us a hundredfold for our kindness. (because in this village it is so customary)
          In another village, the gathering says: you don't need to feed extra mouths, let them either knock down or die. (because in this village it is customary).
          This is also not a system.
          At the level available to you: if half of the parts are removed from the PCA in random order, will it remain the system or become a set of figs-understand-what?
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 08: 34
            -6
            Michael, in this case they talk about mosaic character systems. Even in the excerpt you quoted from VIKI it is written "a certain integrity". In this case, there was integrity, but with certain denominations. Together with other shortcomings, this also caused the systemic crisis of the autocracy in Russia. And if something is successful from the machine, it will remain a system ... without such and such details.
            1. Far B
              Far B 10 February 2021 08: 46
              -3
              in this case, one speaks of the mosaic nature of the system
              Verbal balancing act went. Oh well laughing
              And if something is successful from the machine, it will remain a system ... without such and such details
              No such and such, and half taken in random order. I'll give you half of the parts from any mechanism you don't know - or even halves of the parts, which is even clearer - please, deal with the system.
              1. kalibr
                10 February 2021 10: 33
                -6
                Quote: Dalny V
                in this case, one speaks of the mosaic nature of the system
                Verbal balancing act went.

                It is not my fault that you do not know scientific terminology. Therefore, you perceive the described phenomenon so primitively.
              2. kalibr
                10 February 2021 10: 53
                -4
                Quote: Dalny V
                I'll give you half of the parts from any mechanism you don't know - or even half of the parts, which is even clearer - please, sort out the system.

                But what is this? Where did I write about the unknown mechanism? This is just what is known and well. Although not all. In any case - read carefully - the sample will be mosaic. But this will be a selection of a part from the whole, that is, from the system. Good or bad is another conversation, another topic.
          2. DrEng527
            DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 16
            0
            Quote: Dalny V
            This is also not a system.

            you are confusing the concepts of system and structure ... request For example, when Mendeleev created his periodic table, there were many gaps, but the system was ... request
        2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
          Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 February 2021 10: 41
          -1
          Quote: kalibr
          Any social phenomenon consisting of a number of elements is a system

          Vyacheslav Olegovich - these elements should at least be interconnected.
          Otherwise, I agree with you.
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 13: 21
            -1
            Interconnected - yes. But the connections can be different. Based on goal-setting, on the basis of subordination and subordination, based on funding. How many connections do we see in this case? A lot, isn't it ...
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 08: 07
      +2
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      1200 rubles per year. Quite, quite a lot, and 600 rubles were due to the mother, 300 minor children each.

      Something the numbers do not converge.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 February 2021 08: 35
        +2
        Everything is correct. At the time of IN Ulyanov's death, there were two minor children in the family: Dmitry and Maria.
        1. kalibr
          10 February 2021 10: 53
          -4
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          Everything is correct. At the time of IN Ulyanov's death, there were two minor children in the family: Dmitry and Maria.

          Anton, the person was just too lazy to look on the web and think.
  • Dart2027
    Dart2027 10 February 2021 07: 02
    +4
    Quote: Dalny V
    The article is a complete propaganda insanity.

    That is, an attempt on the "holy".
  • Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 10 February 2021 08: 18
    +15
    Quote: Dalny V
    The article is a complete propaganda insanity. There was no social protection in tsarist Russia as a system. Didn't exist!
    A very important note! All bullshit is social protection under the tsars, in fact it was not, but under the USSR it was!
    Quote: Dalny V
    It is enough to read contemporaries - Gilyarovsky, Korolenko, early Green, the same Gorky.
    Dostoevsky! "Crime and Punishment"
    1. Destiny
      Destiny 10 February 2021 09: 59
      +15
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      All bullshit is social protection under the tsars, in fact it was not, but under the USSR it was!

      Quite rightly, the Soviet social system was destroyed, but a new one was never really created.
  • 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 10 February 2021 09: 34
    -5
    complete propaganda insanity - these are the comments of the Tatra Mountains.
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 10 February 2021 09: 49
    +12
    The article is a complete propaganda insanity. There was no social protection in tsarist Russia as a system. Didn't exist! The examples given are just special cases. Someone patronized-philanthropist - honor and praise for this. And someone was burning their lives.
    I strongly support it. They are trying to sniff us, once again, a leafy picture of RI. My grandfather told me how they regularly starved before the revolution, and the revolution was no better. But from the mid-30s, as cut off. The famine, which they could not defeat for hundreds of years, was defeated by the Bolsheviks, in about 20 years. Their honor is theirs. And Shpakovsky can be recommended to feel everything on his own skin. Now it is possible. There are many abandoned or almost abandoned villages. Let him go there with his family and try to live for 5 years on subsistence farming, without exchange from civilization. After all, then there were no non-selective seeds, in the countryside, no agriculture, no cars, no electricity. And then he writes about how well life was under the tsar's charity. The cow died - a tragedy, the horse fell - that's all, harness yourself.
  • kalibr
    10 February 2021 10: 59
    -6
    Quote: Dalny V
    There was no social protection in tsarist Russia as a system.

    But what about pensions from the state to all officials of 14 classes according to the table of ranks? Isn't that a system? Did it not cover workers and peasants? Yes! But it did not include clergymen, merchants, and many more ... That is, it was not perfect? For 14 classes - very perfect. For the rest, no.
    1. DrEng527
      DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 19
      -2
      Quote: kalibr
      Did it not cover workers and peasants?

      and in the USSR, the peasants did not have pensions until the LIB ...
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 17: 02
    0
    "Charitable assistance in the country was carried out by 14 institutions, of which 854 societies and 7 institutions. For example, 349 charitable institutions belonged to the Department of Institutions of the Empress Maria, 7 to the Russian Red Cross Society, 505 to the houses of industriousness and work houses - 683. "
    Quote: Dalny V
    There was no social protection in tsarist Russia as a system. Didn't exist!

    I understand that reading is difficult to understand! request
    I recommend to go to the site gramota.ru and find out the meaning of this word - "4. Form of organization, general structure of smth."
  • Svarog
    Svarog 10 February 2021 18: 56
    +2
    Quote: Dalny V
    The article is a complete propaganda insanity.

    What did you expect from Shpakovsky? hi
    Although it's funny that this author decided to harness himself for tsarism. A new direction in creativity? Or is it a new trend among propagandists?

    He feels where the wind is blowing .. he always keeps his nose in the wind .. when he taught Marxism at the university he also kept it in the wind .. then he changed his shoes and began to denounce .. Such people are unpleasant, a lot of troubles from them.
  • Fat
    Fat 12 February 2021 19: 39
    -2
    Michael! You have it ... How is it ... Paranoia? Welcome to our chamber
    "The moon is usually made in Hamburg ...) (c)
    I walked incognito along Nevsky Prospekt. The emperor was passing by. The whole city took off their caps, and so did I. however, he did not pretend that I was a Spanish king. I thought it indecent to open up right there in front of everyone; because first of all you need to introduce yourself to the court. The only thing that stopped me was that I still don't have a royal suit. wassat
  • Fat
    Fat 12 February 2021 22: 34
    -3
    For other stubborn ones, Any contrary opinion is propaganda.
    It is enough to read contemporaries - Gilyarovsky, Korolenko, early Green, the same Gorky. For some reason, they believe more than the propagandist Shpakovsky.

    How did you imagine and with what fright they began to compare Gilyarovsky (Muscovite) at the beginning of the last century with V.O. Shpakovsky, Penza (Penzyak) at the beginning of the 21st century. What a powerful compliment to V.O. What did you want to condemn? Along the way, the trajectory was mistaken and kissed there, which is not even good to think about wassat Sorry, Mikhail ... I hope you won't be offended. Just "think" and "say" does not equal "say" and "think" - not arithmetic No. recourse
  • nikvic46
    nikvic46 10 February 2021 06: 23
    +9
    It's funny to think that some peasant writes a petition for social assistance. At all times, assistance was provided to those who know how to beautifully state their complaint. And who is silent ... people say about that - water does not flow under the lying stone. So it was with us, so it will be with us in the future.
    1. Vladimir_2U
      Vladimir_2U 10 February 2021 06: 53
      +9
      Quote: nikvic46
      It's funny to think that some peasant writes a petition for social assistance
      It's funny to think that a peasant of that time could write something at all, not just beautifully, but simply write.
      1. Civil
        Civil 10 February 2021 11: 04
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir_2U
        It's funny to think that a peasant of that time could write something at all, not just beautifully, but simply write.

        Immediately I remembered Platonov's "Juvenile Sea" and it was not funny.
        1. Vladimir_2U
          Vladimir_2U 10 February 2021 11: 52
          +1
          Quote: Civil
          Juvenile Sea "Platonov and became not funny.

          I tried for a long time, but did not master it, so why a book about the initial Soviet period in relation to the universal illiteracy of peasants before the Revolution?
          1. Civil
            Civil 10 February 2021 13: 17
            +5
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            I tried for a long time, but did not master it, so why a book about the initial Soviet period in relation to the universal illiteracy of peasants before the Revolution?

            About total poverty and lawlessness, an autobiographical tale. What kind of literacy can we talk about if people only by reason differed in living conditions from animals. As it is now, Moscow St. Petersburg is a hall and a dining room, and the rest of Russia has household buildings and barracks for slaves.
          2. kalibr
            10 February 2021 13: 25
            -2
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            total illiteracy of the peasants before the Revolution?

            Moreover, it is obvious that it was completely preserved after it! The only question is, during which time, and how effectively the process of its elimination actually went. Because even if a person was taught to sign and write "We are not slaves. We are not slaves!" ... this does not mean that he became literate.
  • Lannan Shi
    Lannan Shi 10 February 2021 07: 11
    +11
    More than 1 million people regularly used charitable assistance, which in monetary terms exceeded the amount of 500 million rubles.

    Where did the firewood come from? In the sense of 500 million, how many decades? The statistics show slightly different numbers. Let's say for 1902 - 50,6 million rubles. And what is interesting is that the article "for the maintenance of suspects" - 17,5% of the expenses, "for providing assistance outside the institutions" - 14,9%, but for "Other expenses (administrative expenses for the purchase and maintenance of real estate, etc." 48 .... What reminds the immortal - A new batch of old women? These are orphans!
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 08: 00
      -7
      The second article will provide links to used literature, do not worry.
      1. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 10 February 2021 09: 23
        +10
        Quote: kalibr
        The second article will provide links to used literature, do not worry.

        Yes, I don't seem to worry. Just give links to adequate sources. And then the cited figure, like that ... Causes vague doubts. yes For in 1913, 580 million is the budget of the War Ministry. And the literature that will claim that they spent almost as much on charity as on the army ... It raises doubts in advance about the adequacy of the authors. yes
        1. kalibr
          10 February 2021 13: 36
          -2
          Quote: Lannan Shi
          It raises doubts in advance about the adequacy of the authors.

          I found you a link to the source: GARF. Form 6787. Op. 1. D.115. L.6-7. What is there and what I will not say. I worked with these documents in 2004-5.
          1. Lannan Shi
            Lannan Shi 10 February 2021 16: 09
            +7
            Quote: kalibr
            I found you a link to the source: GARF. Form 6787. Op. 1. D.115. L. 6-7

            Well, I have a different source before my eyes. Statistical collection Russia 1913. Referring to the Collection of Charity in Russia, from 1907 gold. In turn, referring to the data of the SeIV Office. And so the Imperial Chancellery claims that all the expenses of charitable organizations amounted to 50.561.592 re. Of these, actually for charity - 26.277.592 re.
            Excuse me generously, but I somehow believe in the official data more than the link is not clear on what. Well, logic at the same time. Hinting at what to talk about talking about annual spending on charity, as an amount almost equal to the cost of building the Transsib .... Statement in the style of April Fools. yes
            1. kalibr
              10 February 2021 16: 28
              -1
              I can’t answer you anything, because I don’t know what is behind this link. Maybe the same state report., Maybe something else. I had to make thousands of such links, do you remember everything?
              1. Svarog
                Svarog 10 February 2021 19: 00
                +3
                Quote: kalibr
                I can't answer you anything, because I don't know

                Even though you're being honest here .. and there is a curtain ..
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Akuzenka
      Akuzenka 10 February 2021 10: 14
      +2
      Where did the firewood come from? In the sense of 500 million, this is how many decades?
      Decades? It seems to me that this amount came over more than one CENTURY.
  • sergo1914
    sergo1914 10 February 2021 07: 29
    +7
    ... The population census of 1897 showed that about 1,5 million people lived on the territory of the Penza province, of which only 140 thousand were in cities.


    And in 1904, the provincial zemstvo already contained 50 public libraries with eight thousand readers.


    8 thousand out of 1,5 million. Well, what else can you talk about? The remaining 1,5 million had private libraries. And every peasant had a library shed built in the yard (next to the bakery for baking French rolls). And in the morning, on the terrace, with tea / coffee drinking, the whole peasant family read Gogol aloud.
    Olgovich will not let you lie. And so it was. Until the Bolsheviks came and burned all the nafig.
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 07: 59
      -9
      Don't write nonsense. If you strain the styrofoam or whatever you have instead of your brain, then something else is clear, namely, what enormous difficulties the new government had to face when it became ... power. A huge number of completely, absolutely illiterate people (and this is when Bismarck said that a German teacher won the Franco-Prussian war), a meager number of libraries, a meager amount of books, a huge number of orphans, widowed women, old people in need of help. The need to educate the same children ... And all this in the face of a shortage of personnel, finance and other funds. That is, the beginning of work was very difficult, since the system, although bad, was almost completely destroyed. Has he easily explained where to look and what to write about?
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 10 February 2021 08: 02
        +9
        Quote: kalibr
        Don't write nonsense. If you strain the styrofoam or whatever you have instead of your brain, then something else is clear, namely, what enormous difficulties the new government had to face when it became ... power. A huge number of completely, absolutely illiterate people (and this is when Bismarck said that a German teacher won the Franco-Prussian war), a meager number of libraries, a meager amount of books, a huge number of orphans, widowed women, old people in need of help. The need to educate the same children ... And all this in the face of a shortage of personnel, finance and other funds. That is, the beginning of work was very difficult, since the system, although bad, was almost completely destroyed. Has he easily explained where to look and what to write about?


        Well, I have at least some styrofoam. Do you shake out your sawdust, at least occasionally, to dry it?
        1. kalibr
          10 February 2021 08: 37
          -8
          There is nothing to say about the content of the commentary itself, I see? Well, at least it's good that you repeated it.
          1. sergo1914
            sergo1914 10 February 2021 08: 49
            +8
            Quote: kalibr
            There is nothing to say about the content of the commentary itself, I see? Well, at least it's good that you repeated it.


            Are you, in general, adequate? What is the "new" government? 1907 year. If you are talking about Soviet power, then
            the revolution erased all this almost at once
            she did not cross out anything, for there was nothing to cross out.
            1. kalibr
              10 February 2021 12: 20
              -3
              Quote: sergo1914
              for there was nothing to cross out.

              ??? And where is the Tretyakov Gallery from ...
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 14: 26
                +5
                Quote: kalibr
                ??? And where is the Tretyakov Gallery from ...

                In the USSR, citizens also donated their collections to museums.
                1. kalibr
                  10 February 2021 16: 29
                  -2
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  In the USSR, citizens also donated their collections to museums.

                  And they were all equal to the Tretyakov Gallery ... Therefore, we have a lot of them. In every city 2-3 at least.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 10 February 2021 16: 38
                    +4
                    Quote: kalibr
                    Quote: Mordvin 3
                    In the USSR, citizens also donated their collections to museums.

                    And they were all equal to the Tretyakov Gallery ... Therefore, we have a lot of them. In every city 2-3 at least.

                    At the exhibition “From the collection of G.M. Levitin. 1914-1982 ", organized for the 110th anniversary of the Russian Museum, presents 35 paintings and 70 graphic works by leading masters of art of the first half of the XNUMXth century from the collection of the Russian Museum.
                    The historical part of the collection of G.M. Levitin, presented at the exhibition, unites the classics of Russian art of the beginning of the century - N. Goncharova and B. Grigoriev, F. Malyavin and A. Yakovlev, P. Miturich and P. Lvov, V. Chekrygin and K. Petrova-Vodkina. Levitin's pride was the magnificent gouaches of Vera Ermolaeva and the works of the artist Alexander Tyshler.

                    Among the paintings presented at the exhibition, a special place is occupied by the works of artists associated with the theater - N. Altman and V. Dorrer, Z. Arshakuni and F. Volossenkov. Remarkable works belong to K. Petrov-Vodkin, A. Karev, A. Rusakov, A. Pakhomov. The close acquaintance of G.M. Levitin with the authors made it possible to introduce into the collection the paintings of B. Birger, A. Fonvizin, which were often purchased directly in the workshops.

                    The collection of Grigory Moiseevich (Mikhailovich) Levitin is one of the largest and most informative in the museum's collection.
              2. sergo1914
                sergo1914 10 February 2021 16: 26
                +4
                Quote: kalibr
                Quote: sergo1914
                for there was nothing to cross out.

                ??? And where is the Tretyakov Gallery from ...


                In the Penza province? In 1907? Did I miss something?
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 10 February 2021 08: 45
        -3
        and this is when Bismarck said that a German teacher won the Franco-Prussian war
        Bismarck is credited with many different catchwords, but this frvza:
        "... Public education plays a decisive role in the war ... when the Prussians beat the Austrians, it was the victory of the Prussian teacher over the Austrian school teacher."
        by another person, Oskar Peschel, professor of geography at the University of Leipzig. Moreover, Bismarck disliked this formulation, applying it in an ironic context.
        Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
  • Undecim
    Undecim 10 February 2021 08: 35
    +3
    The comments immediately turned into a holivar and a discussion of the author's personality instead of discussing the topic of the article - the existence of a social protection system in the Russian Empire. Another illustration of how harmful its use in propaganda is for history.
    And the beginning of the article cannot be called successful. Still, it was worthwhile to devote at least a small amount of theory, highlight what models of social protection existed, give a small retrospective of the emergence of social activity in Russia and the formation in the Russian Empire of three main areas of charity and social assistance to those in need: state, zemstvo-parish and private (personal).
    And it would still be logical to start with the state, and not with the private.
    Perhaps this would encourage the audience to be constructivist in the discussion, and not in throwing waste products at each other.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 10 February 2021 08: 58
      +1
      Perhaps this would encourage the audience to be constructivist in the discussion, and not in throwing waste products at each other.
      That is unlikely.
      And the conversation about social safety nets was probably worth starting with medieval France.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 10 February 2021 09: 14
        +3
        Better from Russia in the XNUMXth century. And then you start with France, the Germans will be offended.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 February 2021 09: 18
          +2
          Then the Poles will be offended. However, they are no strangers.
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 10: 49
            -3
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            However, they are no strangers.

            Then all inadequate people will be offended. Each material is based on what is familiar to its author, on sources. These are journalistic materials, nothing more. No research ... from France, "The situation of the working class in England" ... If you start from the times of the "new", then you will not rake it in a year. And why is this necessary? In addition, we know the result of all the actions of the tsarist government -1917!
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 10 February 2021 10: 55
              +1
              No research ... from France
              I'll come home from work, find excerpts from royal edicts, if you're interested.
              1. kalibr
                10 February 2021 12: 11
                +4
                It would be a truly merciful act on your part, Anton. Of course it's interesting. I don't write about everything, but I read a lot of everything.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 10 February 2021 17: 26
                  +3
                  So, snapped, I could not find, but for example:
                  the decree of Philip VI of 1342 on the preservation of the pension for retired civil servants and military personnel over 60 years old,
                  Phillip's decree V of 1319, allowing older nobles to pay taxes to the local seneschal, rather than travel to the royal court.
                  1. kalibr
                    11 February 2021 14: 03
                    +1
                    Thank you Anton for your time. Very interesting!
            2. Undecim
              Undecim 10 February 2021 11: 10
              +5
              These are journalistic materials, no more
              It is clear that the VO site is not even Izvestiya of the Penza State Pedagogical University named after VG Belinsky, but there are plenty of "journalists" here, elbows are pushed, but with historians - a lot of tension.
              1. kalibr
                10 February 2021 12: 14
                +2
                Quote: Undecim
                with historians - a lot of stress.

                The problem, Viktor Nikolaevich: the archive is closed, the Ministry of Defense's archive responds only to paper letters and only to personalities, some archives need to fill in so many papers that you think - "but nafig." It's good that now I have no problems with the Hermitage. And so, to find something new-oh-oh. And ordering a dissertation for a full reading is 500 rubles. give and do not sin.
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka
        Kote Pan Kokhanka 10 February 2021 10: 54
        0
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        And the conversation about social safety nets was probably worth starting with medieval France.


        Hi Anton, I think we need to dig earlier from the Polis of Hellas and the Senate and the people of Rome!
        And without taking the medal of rights and obligations from the other side !!!
        So, being a citizen in Athens, depending on his state, he was obliged not only to defend his policy with weapons, but also to maintain a warship or serve on it as a hoplite or rower. Only in this case you could demand something in return.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 10 February 2021 11: 05
          +1
          Only in this case could you demand something in return.
          Hello, Vlad! What exactly?
          On the Middle Ages, I can give specific examples, but later.
    2. Pane Kohanku
      Pane Kohanku 10 February 2021 11: 05
      0
      The comments immediately turned into a holivar and a discussion of the author's personality instead of discussing the topic of the article - the existence of a social protection system in the Russian Empire.

      The darkness is complete.
      Perhaps this would encourage the audience to be constructivist in the discussion, and not in throwing waste products at each other.

      This is not communication, this is just throwing. Very sorry. We could condemn everything constructively - from all sides and participants.
    3. ee2100
      ee2100 10 February 2021 11: 31
      +5
      "Another illustration of how harmful its use in propaganda is for history" (c)
      Basically, the community did not like the topic of the article, and did not like the author's idealization of the charity system in RI.
      I agree that the author is more successful in articles about weapons. And propaganda articles should be left to propagandists, as well as articles about cheap Western food.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 10 February 2021 11: 48
        +2
        Basically, the community did not like the topic of the article, and did not like the author's idealization of the charity system in RI.
        I bet that even if the author wrote about this system in a very neutral and strictly historical framework, the topic would have caused the usual shit between Bulkokhrust and Bolsheviks, each of which has its own, "correct" history. And how much this "correct" story relates to the real one - neither of them cares. This category cannot perceive history as history. For more than a hundred years of use of history in propaganda, they do not pass without leaving a trace. Many already perceive reality only through the prism of propaganda.
        1. ee2100
          ee2100 10 February 2021 12: 18
          +3
          That's all right. If this article appeared 200-300 years later, it would pass unnoticed, but now everything is so alive that any information will be perceived as propaganda. In society, for various reasons, certain groups of people have formed with their own established beliefs and the discussion of this article is confirmation of this.
          Does not paint the author and insults the critic.
          1. kalibr
            10 February 2021 16: 36
            -1
            Quote: ee2100
            Does not paint the author and insults the critic.

            And where did you see those who were adequately criticizing? What "critics", such is their characteristic, Alexander. Tired, you know, bowing to various former "hegemons" who know nothing, but think they know everything.
            1. ee2100
              ee2100 10 February 2021 17: 47
              +3
              This does not mean that one should sink to the level of critics. Be above that. Or just ignore.
              Since you are publishing, accept the terms of "communication" am
              1. kalibr
                10 February 2021 21: 05
                -1
                Quote: ee2100
                Be above that. Or just ignore it.

                But why, Alexander? Why on earth? What does the Bible say about this: 26: 4. Do not answer a fool because of his foolishness, lest you become like him;
                26: 5. but answer to a fool by his stupidity so that he does not
                became a wise man in his own eyes. (Proverbs of Solomon) And here it is directly said RESPOND TO THE STUPID IN HIS STUFF. And rightly so ... otherwise he will not understand if you tackle with him, and all sorts of antimony to breed.
              2. kalibr
                10 February 2021 21: 06
                0
                Quote: ee2100
                Since you are publishing, accept the terms of "communication"

                So I accept ...
                1. ee2100
                  ee2100 10 February 2021 21: 50
                  +2
                  I expressed my opinion, it is natural for you to decide. I wouldn't get involved in a squabble. It annoys people even more when they are not noticed.
                  1. kalibr
                    11 February 2021 07: 10
                    0
                    Quote: ee2100
                    It annoys people even more when they are not noticed.

                    Not always and not all, and most importantly, when they get involved in a skirmish, they put clicks. What is the peculiarity of our person? The last word must remain with him! So they are trying to ... ku. And they raise ... yes? And the words ... this, Alexander, is air, which for an intelligent person is worth nothing, isn't it? Remember what the Chinese I-Poon said about this in J. London's story "Hearts of Three".
                    1. ee2100
                      ee2100 11 February 2021 11: 29
                      0
                      "The last word should remain with them" (c) Themselves offer to treat them philosophically laughing , but do not forget "Evil tongues are worse than a gun"
                      Good luck.

                      "
                      1. kalibr
                        11 February 2021 11: 39
                        0
                        Quote: ee2100
                        but do not forget "Evil tongues are worse than a gun"

                        Wrong again, dear Alexander! This was the case before the advent of the Internet and computers. Now it turned out that there is a 90 + 1 rule. Its essence: after 90 days 90% of non-specialists forget 90% of what is written and you can give it all the same in a day. And after 180 days? And after 365? Therefore, now a different principle operates: THE BEST ADVERTISING IS A SCANDAL!
  • Free wind
    Free wind 10 February 2021 10: 02
    +5
    Social protection today is an organization that helps weak people, if they have a pension of over 15 thousand, then they take a little money from them, if less, then only for food. Sick leave and disability pensions at work, this is social insurance, but pensions are a pension fund. About tsarist times. The service people, not the soldiers, had a state pension, all kinds of employees, the same. But the rank and file, the peasants, the workers had nothing. And they did not live long. I can't imagine how many flights the then trucker could make, I mean the barge haule. But from Moscow to Astrakhan is almost 1500 km. And all sorts of diseases, so everyone knows about malaria. The overwhelming number of convicts worked in factories, in mines, in mines, and they also did not improve their health. So crowds of beggars walked around the expanses of our Motherland, it will be lucky if they get to any almshouse, and so they found their death in roadside ditches.
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 10: 51
      0
      Quote: Free Wind
      So crowds of beggars walked across the expanses of our Motherland

      There will also be beggars. And as always, not everything is so simple here. Some "beggars" were very wealthy people! Go to VO - read it.
  • Alex Nevs
    Alex Nevs 10 February 2021 11: 54
    -2
    I read it, then walked quickly. But the point is not .... Pouring water from empty to empty. But everything is simple. The unity and struggle of the two Socialism-Capitalism. Pros of one = cons of the other and vice versa. Whatever you do with your mind, nothing new will happen. Change of the spiral of development. Pecking again? a new round then ?. We look Now ... do they think that the President will take care of everything? Little ones !. Was the salary of researchers raised? Yeah - keep your pocket. The tip of the iceberg will be tinted ... and then (i.e. below) it will remain so. And there is no way to melt this bottom. The wrong system. And further - there will be more. With such a capstroy-or dust in the eyes, let or Force subordinate "laces" to answer in full! This is practically insoluble, but the only and necessary and amenable to qualitative improvement. And to argue about (as in this article) which is better and where - has long been known.
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 10 February 2021 12: 01
    +6
    Do not confuse charity and social security. I do not need handouts from the master's shoulder. But if I have served the state in good faith, then it MUST take care of me, especially in old age and illness.
    1. BAI
      BAI 10 February 2021 16: 10
      +8
      From the point of view of the state, you must die on the first day of retirement.
  • kalibr
    10 February 2021 12: 18
    0
    Quote: vladimirvn
    But if I have served the state in good faith, then it MUST take care of me, especially in old age and illness.

    Well, in tsarist Russia it was! 14 classes according to the table of ranks - pension to you + pension to minor children + pension to widow. That is, all the officials and all the officers were very well equipped.
    1. BAI
      BAI 10 February 2021 16: 11
      +6
      That is, all officials and all officers

      And how many were there in% of the entire population?
      1. kalibr
        10 February 2021 16: 38
        -1
        But this is a different conversation and speaks only of the imperfection of social policy at that time. That is, this was also one of the reasons for 1917 ...
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 10 February 2021 15: 43
    +6
    As Peskov said, our ideal is the Russian Empire. In principle, we have already come to this ideal. Sometimes I think it's good to live like this! laughing
  • BAI
    BAI 10 February 2021 16: 08
    +6
    The issue of helping the poor will always go into politics. And no matter how much you help the poor, there will always be dissatisfied people. Even when there are no poor (according to official criteria), there will always be disaffected among those who receive the bottom amount. So that what power, in what state, under what system would not do in this respect - there will always be dissatisfied, with examples, which is better somewhere.
    In general, the state is a coercive apparatus. Any actions of the state in any area will always cause someone's dissatisfaction.

    And the author misses one point - the state policy of social protection of tsarist Russia was based on the fact that in the Village there are old people, sick people, etc. should be supported by relatives, and only orphans end up in state-owned charities.
    1. kalibr
      10 February 2021 16: 39
      -2
      Quote: BAI
      And the author misses one point - the state policy of social protection of tsarist Russia was based on the fact that in the Village there are old people, sick people, etc. should be supported by relatives, and only orphans end up in state-owned charities.

      As, by the way, today in China, which is being praised here!
  • DrEng527
    DrEng527 10 February 2021 16: 50
    0
    Thanks to the author for revealing the forgotten pages of history! hi
  • kalibr
    10 February 2021 21: 00
    +1
    Quote: Unknown
    same in the third generation

    In the fourth
  • Old electrician
    Old electrician 11 February 2021 04: 37
    +3
    So, the number of those in need of charitable assistance in Russia at the end of the XIX - beginning of the XX century. accounted for about 5% of the population - that is, about 8 million people. More than 1 million people regularly used charitable assistance, which in monetary terms exceeded the amount of 500 million rubles.

    - I read it, burst into tears like a schoolgirl. What a country it was !!!
    Now let's think about it: the revolution canceled all this almost at once. This whole system ... fell apart.
    - the horror of our town !!!
    Having burst into tears, I (on the recommendation of the author) thought:
    And so, with the blessed Nick 2, 1 million people constantly received charitable assistance over 500 million rubles. We divide one by the other and get 500 rubles. per year on the snout. The social status of a railway worker under the tsar was higher than that of a cosmonaut today. Therefore, the annual income of the railway engineer was 400 rubles per year. The teacher received 250 rubles a year, the priest - 300 rubles a year. With this money, they could also support the servants. At the beginning of the 36th century, the income of a laborer in Russia was 48 rubles. per year, the worker's income is 30 rubles per year. The salary of miners in the Lena mines before execution was 45-108 rubles a month (how much they actually got in their hands when calculating a topic for a separate conversation). In the most successful case, the total maximum income of a peasant family was 28 rubles a year, provided that they all go to work in the winter. It is also known that the battleship "Empress Maria" cost the treasury XNUMX million rubles.
    As you can see, Saint Nick 2 saved on battleships, refused Faberge eggs, pulled out the last piece from the princesses' throats, just to provide 500 million rubles. on social networks. Therefore, according to Shpakovsky, those receiving social assistance at that time were distinguished by their muzzle cracked in half.
    Once I had a chance to talk with a peasant granny who experienced the tsarist social system on her own skin. All she remembered about that time was constant, never-ending hunger. All my attempts to convince this granny that not all of them were starving at that time, she took with hostility and stubbornly insisted that there was nothing the same for everyone, from the tsar and the landowners to the last peasant. She simply could not believe that at that time someone on the table could have had enough ordinary bread at all. Before the revolution, the peasants alternately knew only two states: life from hand to mouth and hunger as a national disaster. Under the adored monarchs, there were 34 hunger years in the 40th century, and over 1833 in the 1845th century. There was a particularly large famine in 46, 1851-1855, 1872, 1891, 92, XNUMX-XNUMX. Alas! It also came to cannibalism.
    As a matter of fact, the concept of "hunger" was introduced by the Bolsheviks; under the tsar, such a term did not exist at all. Alexander III, in one of his rescripts, defined this Russian social disaster as “grain crop failure”.
    At the beginning of the 1901th century, there were hungry people in 1905, 1908-1911 — years. I draw particular attention to the famine of 12-30, which was a brilliant consequence of the failure of the Stolypin reforms. Then more than 60 million agricultural enterprises were affected. population in XNUMX provinces. For the German tsars on the Russian throne, the Russians were just draft animals, and therefore there was NOT AT ALL ANY count of starving and starving deaths. An estimate of the number of hungry people was made by eye, the cattle at that time were in a much better position. His accounting in the hungry years was carried out scrupulously.
    Since at the beginning of the 16th century the lack of grain production took on appalling proportions and clearly smelled of revolution, so on December 1905, 22, the Society for Aid the Hungry was created to fight it, which included 2 public associations. Among them are the Peasant Union, the All-Russian Union of Medical Personnel, Railway, Teachers' Union, etc. The government also made a head start and created essentially state-owned, but semi-public institutions - the Red Cross, the Commission for the Fight against Plague, the Trusteeship for Labor Assistance, etc. However, all this was an imitation of tireless activity. The measures taken by the tsarist government to combat “grain crop failure” were in fact a struggle against the starving. As Nicholas I said: "Benefits that are too easy to receive can weaken the peasant's activity in earning a living by his own labor." Hence, under his descendant Nick 1911, it was pragmatically declared: "crop failure by no means can serve as an excuse for the failure of the peasants to fulfill their tax obligations." So, for example, during the famine of 20 only on the starving Samara province. 2 million rubles were collected. arrears. Glory to Nick XNUMX Passion Bearer!
    1. kalibr
      11 February 2021 07: 17
      0
      You made a wonderful comment. Thanks! About hunger and starving people will be in the next article. The fact that Nikki was clearly not smart are examples of the darkness. But that hunger with cannibalism was in 21 and 31 years old. Could you make the same comment? It would be very cool. You have a good style and manner of presentation.
      1. Old electrician
        Old electrician 13 February 2021 06: 13
        0
        About famine and dispossession.
        After the civil war in the RCP (b) a stratum of hurray-revolutionaries arose, which could not imagine itself in a peaceful life. The war gave them everything - power, impunity, a beautiful life and reverence for hangers-on. Of course, they did not go into a bayonet attack, but each of them imagined himself at least the Leader of the world proletariat, so it was impossible to unite them under one banner. They were only related by hatred of Lenin and Stalin with their idiotic ideas of adherence to the law and building socialism in one country. Only the disunity of these jingoistic revolutionaries gave Stalin a chance.
        Trotsky, a born orator capable of hypnotizing any crowd (this is a fact, not a joke), and a mediocre administrator was one of these cheerleaders. After the war, the rallies ended and people like Trotsky began to rapidly lose popularity. How it would end is unknown, but Trotsky put the ideological base under the general wishes of the hurray revolutionaries in time: the USSR is running ahead, Stalin is a traitor to the World Revolution, and therefore the USSR must be destroyed along with Stalin at any cost. The funny thing is that in his fight against Stalin and the USSR, Trotsky referred to the authority of Lenin. A quote from L. Trotsky. Economic adventurism and its dangers. February 13, 1930 Bulletin of the opposition (Bolshevik-Leninists) No. 9 ":
        … Again and again we resolutely abandon the task of building "in the shortest possible time" a National Socialist society. We associate collectivization, as well as industrialization, with the problems of the World Revolution. The issues of our economy are ultimately decided in the international arena. The Comintern must be revived. It is necessary to revise the revolutionary strategy of the post-Leninist era and condemn it in all its three periods: Zinoviev, Bukharin-Stalin, and Stalin-Molotov. The current leadership must be liquidated, for it is in the field of international questions that the Stalinist faction reaches such limits of theoretical cynicism and practical unbridledness that threaten the proletarian vanguard with innumerable calamities. The rejection of the theory of National Socialism and the practice of bureaucratic adventurism is an elementary precondition for the revival of the Communist International ...

        According to Trotsky, the USSR had to get involved in any wars for the sake of the World Revolution and constantly provoke social conflicts in the country. "Permanent Revolution" is called:
        ... The second aspect of the "Permanent" theory already characterizes the socialist revolution as such. Over an indefinite period of time and in constant internal struggle, all social relations are rebuilt. Society is constantly shedding. One stage of transformation follows directly from the other. This process, by necessity, retains a political character, i.e. unfolds through the collisions of different groups of the rebuilding society. Explosions of civil war and external wars alternate with periods of "peaceful" reforms. The revolutions of economy, technology, knowledge, family, everyday life, morals, unfold in complex interaction with each other, preventing society from achieving equilibrium. This is the permanent character of the socialist revolution as such ...
        - Gorby calls it Perestroika.
        The goal of Perestroika, sorry, Permanent Revolution is the elimination of the USSR. To do this, you need to "tighten the screws" on the population so that it itself climbs the barricades. Then pushing this counter and tightening the nuts again to the bitter end is a holiday without end.
        Everyone remembers how the nuts were tightened during Perestroika. In the 30s, the situation was simplified by the fact that it was objectively required to carry out collectivization. In addition, from 1932 to 1936 there was a series of crop failures. This gave the Trotskyists a chance.
        It is a myth that already in the 20s, Stalin was the one-right dictator. In the USSR, all personnel issues, including the periodic reappointment of Stalin as General Secretary of the Central Committee of the RCP (b), were decided by the Central Committee and the Politburo of the Central Committee of the RCP (b) (PB). Neither there nor there Stalin had a stable majority, which was constantly the cause of all kinds of political intrigues. When, for example, in 1932, Stalin learned about the plight of Ukraine, he tried to pass through the Central Committee and the PB the decision to remove from his posts the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CP (b) U S.V. Kosior and the head of the Ukrainian government, Chairman of the VUTSIK V.Ya. Chubar. Well, just like a small child "I want the moon from the sky" and that's it! In 1935, like a spit in the face of Stalin, through the efforts of the USSR People's Commissar of Agriculture M.N. Chernov and his associates, S.V. Kosior was awarded the Order of Lenin "for outstanding achievements in the field of agriculture", in other words, for the famine.
        By 1937, Stalin had gained a majority in the Central Committee and the PB, and Maslenitsa came to the cat.
        For excesses during collectivization, dispossession of kulaks and grain procurements, they were shot:
        • The direct organizer of all excesses of the People's Commissar of Agriculture of the USSR (People's Commissariat) from 1929 to 1934, Ya.A. Yakovlev (present fam. Epstein). During the famine, he did not lift a finger to help the peasants. Yakovlev is steadily in the shadow of the denunciators of the personality cult, while, for example, Yezhov is nothing more than a courtyard syavka compared to him.
        • People's Commissariat for Land in 1934-1937. M.A. Chernov, associate of Yakovlev.
        • People's Commissariat of Agriculture from 1937 to 1938 R.I. Eihe. The most vile revolutionary revolutionary, a born executioner, executor of all excesses, the idol of Nikita the Wonderworker.
        Narkomzem itself was then thoroughly cleaned up.
        Kosior and Chubar and their associates were shot for organizing the famine in Ukraine:
        • Former second secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) of Ukraine and 1st secretary of the Kharkov regional committee Postyshev. In terms of the number of victims of excesses, Postyshev is second only to Khrushchev and Eikhe.
        • Former first secretary of the Dnepropetrovsk regional committee of KP (b) U Khatayevich
        • Former 1st Secretary of the Crimean Regional Committee of the CPSU (b), then 1st Secretary of the Odessa Regional Committee of the CP (b) U Veger.
        • People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the Ukrainian SSR Balitsky and others.
        4.04.1933/XNUMX/XNUMX M.A. Sholokhov wrote a letter to Stalin about excesses in the Azov-Black Sea region (available on the Internet):
        …ten. In the Zatonsk collective farm, an agitation column worker beat the interrogated with a saber. In the same collective farm, they mocked the families of the Red Army soldiers, opening the roofs of houses, destroying stoves, forcing women to cohabit ...
        .
        The PB, which took place on the basis of Sholokhov's letter, made a ridiculously toothless decision on these scoundrels. Like let's live together and don't do that anymore. Well, it was not PB member Kosior with PB candidate Chubar to make a radical decision then.
        Nowadays, Sholokhov's letter is not quoted only by the lazy. At the same time, it is diligently silent that after 1937, according to this letter, they were shot:
        • Former First Secretary of the Azov-Black Sea Regional Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks B.P. Sheboldaev.
        • Former second secretary of the regional committee N.N. Zimin.
        • Former First Secretary of the Rostov City Party Committee; faithful ally of Sheboldaev G.F. Ovchinnikov.
        • Former first secretary of the Organizational Bureau of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks in the Krasnodar Territory I.A. Kravtsov
        • Former 1st Secretary of the Organizational Bureau of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks for the Krasnodar Territory M.I. Marchuk Mikhail Ivanovich.
        • Former First Secretary of the North Caucasian Regional Committee E.G. Evdokimov and others.
        In 1956, Nikita the Wonderworker rehabilitated all those I had listed in one go and reinstated them in the party posthumously. Khrushchev destroyed the criminal cases of the rehabilitated. The remaining criminal cases are classified until now. Therefore, it is impossible to verify his assurances about the innocence of these criminals.
  • andybuts
    andybuts 11 February 2021 08: 10
    +1
    To equate charity and patronage with "the state system of measures to help and support citizens who have suffered from social risks or found themselves in a difficult life situation" (the definition of social protection), this still needs to be tried to be sucked out of the finger. The article is just a balm for the guardians, monarchists and other bakeries, with the Russia they have lost
  • Mother Theresa
    Mother Theresa 11 February 2021 20: 28
    0
    An interesting article about a very complex topic. But some readers everywhere see the undermining of the USSR, and spread demagogy on the topic of how it was good before and how bad it is now, without any reference to the information presented in the article. Of course, I understand everyone should have a civic position, but it is stupid to declaim your position for any reason and for no reason.