Military Review

"Not in our favor": Americans compared the Mi-28NM with the "Apache"

142
"Not in our favor": Americans compared the Mi-28NM with the "Apache"

Russia is equipping its latest Mi-28NM Night Hunter attack helicopter with guided air-to-air missiles designed to destroy fighters, including the fifth generation. Writes about this NI.


The Russian Defense Ministry is equipping its attack helicopter with air-to-air missiles capable of hitting even fifth-generation fighters. Thus, the Russians are determined to destroy the American AH-64 Apache attack helicopters designed to fight the Russians. tanks.

The newest Russian attack helicopter, the Mi-28NM, will be transformed into a fighter capable of handling enemy aircraft, drones and cruise missiles. The R-74M missile was originally developed taking into account the possibility of hitting the fifth generation fighters F-35 and F-22

- the edition writes with reference to the publications of the Russian press.

According to the American edition, the Russian Mi-28NM will hide behind the terrain and hunt the American Apaches. In turn, the AH-64 Apache does not have air-to-air missiles and is inferior to the Russian helicopter in this component.

At the same time, the publication emphasizes that the idea of ​​installing guided missiles to engage targets in the air is far from new; earlier OH-58D Kiowa reconnaissance helicopters were armed with Stinger missiles. The option of arming them with AH-64 Apache attack helicopters was considered, but later this was abandoned.

(...) attack helicopters are not designed for air combat, they should dominate the battlefield, but if necessary, Apaches can be armed with air-to-air missiles. But while the score is not in our favor

- summarizes the publication.
142 comments
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  1. Victor_B
    Victor_B 30 January 2021 11: 49
    -7
    According to the American edition, the Russian Mi-28NM will hide behind the terrain and hunt the American Apaches. In turn, the AH-64 Apache does not have air-to-air missiles and is inferior to the Russian helicopter in this component.
    Afraid means respected!
    1. dorz
      dorz 30 January 2021 11: 53
      +32
      Quote: Victor_B
      AH-64 Apache does not have air-to-air missiles

      NATO has 5 fighters, so they don't need such missiles for a helicopter.
      1. military_cat
        military_cat 30 January 2021 12: 09
        +11

        In turn, the AH-64 Apache does not have air-to-air missiles

        Strange, but where did the AIM-92 Stinger go from his arsenal?
        1. military_cat
          military_cat 30 January 2021 12: 27
          +17
          Stinger AIM-92 on AH-64:

          1. Reserve buildbat
            Reserve buildbat 31 January 2021 07: 25
            +2
            It's just that if you compare the performance characteristics of the R-74 and the Stinger, it will become obvious that the Indian really does not have the V-V missiles. smile
        2. Do not care
          Do not care 31 January 2021 05: 20
          +1
          Nothing strange,
          Writes about this NI
          1. Volkof
            Volkof 31 January 2021 14: 07
            0
            Let them see:
            https://laweba.net/2-nebesnye-voiny-stalnye-pticy-ah-64-apache
      2. seregin-s1
        seregin-s1 30 January 2021 13: 37
        +1
        And all the fighters are concentrated in one place.)
      3. yehat2
        yehat2 30 January 2021 16: 31
        +6
        it is not a matter of quantity, but of doctrine. Until complete air superiority is achieved, the action of the turntables is minimal.
      4. Andrey.AN
        Andrey.AN 1 February 2021 00: 29
        0
        Of those 5000, four rot in the landfill. We have three dozen in Syria hitting more than three hundred NATO clowns in a week in Syria.
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 04
      +3
      They are not afraid, but flattered, which means they knock money out of the budget for even more weapons for their army.

      The United States and NATO have a sea of ​​fighters and AWACS aircraft, if necessary, they will remove our helicopters from the sky from a distance of 100 km, and then finish off the ground forces with their turntables.

      They really do not really need rockets for helicopters and do not need them, they will always use them after clearing the sky, as a cheap option for destroying the enemy.
      1. akarfoxhound
        akarfoxhound 30 January 2021 12: 53
        +52
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        The United States and NATO have a sea of ​​fighters and AWACS aircraft, if necessary, they will remove our helicopters from the sky from a distance of 100 km, and then finish off the ground forces with their turntables.

        They actually have a lot of Ratmir, AWACS and fighters, and of course they can shoot down our turntables, but not in such an apocalyptic picture as you described "in a hundred kilometers and in packs if desired." You just never had anything to do with aerial interception if you think that's what it looks like. To put it mildly, you will get tired of looking for a pinwheel against the background of the "humpback" (the effect of the reflecting surface of the earth), to put it mildly, let alone a hundred kilometers of detecting a rotary winged dragonfly - this is Hollywood.
        That is why on the anti-tank battle field with the participation of attack helicopters, V-V missiles on turntables are not a bad idea. H
        Well, and the fact that NATO has combat aircraft like organic waste in a collective farm bath - who can argue? Even if we fantasize that each of our missiles will work on the target with a probability of one (which is impossible in principle! But we fantasize), then they will still have technology "for a couple of times the same amount." Therefore, the vigorous loaf is our everything, and the rest, so as not to lag behind in small-scale local conflicts and not to do with the conquest of the rebellious Zusuls.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 30 January 2021 13: 38
          +7
          You are right: your opponent is unimportant: you need a tool to clean the sky, and they only have one rocket for cleaning at a distance of 200 km, while ours have it under 300 km.
          In addition, today the most recent gossip says that only 36% of combat-ready guns have engine-capable guns - there has never been such a shame in either the Soviet or Russian army. At the same time, dryers 30, 35 and 57 in terms of maneuverability are significantly steeper than f-22 and even more so f-35, so there is still a question of who will clean the sky from whom, especially since 57 is already sharpened for network centrics, and at least one A- There is 50 (100) on a "difficult" piece of sky to lead a couple of 57 with a large gang of Hunters.
        2. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 15: 42
          +4
          Is it difficult for an AWACS aircraft to find a low-flying helicopter from a high altitude?

          I have no direct relation to interception, I just analyze the data that I have. For example, the destruction of Serbian MiGs with AIM-120 missiles from a long distance by targeting AWACS aircraft. There, the Americans saw a Serbian plane from the moment it took off from the airfield, then transmitted data to the fighter, and he already fired a rocket using this data, which, from a certain distance, turned on the GOS, found the target and attacked it. The Serbs had no chances, not a single one.

          Why will it be different with helicopters?
          1. ccsr
            ccsr 30 January 2021 16: 04
            -1
            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            The Serbs had no chances, not a single one.

            Why will it be different with helicopters?

            There was no chance because the Serbs did not have modern electronic warfare equipment and thermal traps on these aircraft. Modern helicopters can already have all this on board, so not all missiles can repeat what was twenty years ago in the relatively weak Yugoslavia.
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 17: 46
              +2
              What does thermal traps have to do with if AIM-120 missiles are not guided by heat, but use radar to aim at a target?

              An AIM-120 missile does not matter how many heat traps you shoot, it will still capture the target and hit it.

              Compared to the United States and NATO, all countries are weak in the air, even Russia and China with 300 fighters each in service will not last long against them.

              Of course, you can inflate your cheeks as much as you like, but the fact remains that in the air the United States is as strong as anyone.

              And today they can arrange something like in Yugoslavia for any country.
              1. ccsr
                ccsr 30 January 2021 18: 32
                0
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                And here are the thermal traps, if the AIM-120 missiles are not guided by heat,

                Different missiles can be used in this way, including wearable ones - you cannot ignore this in the conduct of hostilities.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                Compared to the United States and NATO, all countries are weak in the air, even Russia and China with 300 fighters each in service will not last long against them.

                Why should we drag out the USA and NATO if we wipe them into nuclear dust within 30 minutes?
                What are you talking about - are you going to fight them on swords?
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                Of course, you can inflate your cheeks as much as you like, but the fact remains that in the air the United States is as strong as anyone.

                Yes, we don’t give a damn about that - we have been thinking in completely different categories since the time of Nixon, so let them fight with the Papuans with their aviation, and here they are even afraid to violate the air border. By the way, the Chinese landed their reconnaissance plane and forced them to apologize. And American aviation superiority helped a lot - tell me ...
                1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 18: 57
                  -3
                  In the USSR, too, German planes were planted before the war, supposedly accidentally flown into our territory, only then it all turned out not in our favor.

                  It is not worth relying strongly on nuclear weapons, there will not be many chances to break through the missile defense system after they have inflicted a massive attack on us with cruise missiles and strategic UAVs, and they do not care about Poland and other US countries, it will even be in their favor for them, they will later declare, that this is generally the first Russia attacked everyone.
                  1. ccsr
                    ccsr 31 January 2021 12: 14
                    -4
                    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                    Strongly hoping for nuclear weapons is not worth it,

                    You can not hope, but I believe in him since Soviet times. But the point is not me, but the fact that our opponents are afraid of him, and as long as this continues, peace is guaranteed to us. All other dances with a tambourine around other weapons, as a professional, I do not perceive.
                    Quote: VB
                    Are you sure that the current Russian leadership and the commander-in-chief will dare to do something to their masters?

                    I am sure that they will dare - no one will ever accept them in the West.
                  2. Peaceful SEO
                    Peaceful SEO 31 January 2021 18: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

                    Relying heavily on nuclear weapons is not worth it, there will not be many chances to break through the missile defense system after they inflict a massive attack on us with cruise missiles and strategic UAVs.

                    Tales about a disarming attack by cruise missiles and UAVs are for infantile young ladies, mostly. Until the cruise missiles reach the mines and bases of the UGRK, the United States will cease to exist physically, for the most part. And they understand it perfectly
                2. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
              2. lopvlad
                lopvlad 30 January 2021 19: 36
                +1
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                And today they can arrange something like in Yugoslavia for any country.


                if they could arrange it, they would have arranged it long ago and would not have allowed it to modernize the army, develop new types of weapons.
              3. shinobi
                shinobi 31 January 2021 07: 55
                0
                Our and Chinese aviation does not work in isolation from ground-based air defense. NATO troops will have to completely destroy our echeloned air defense before conquering the air. I don’t know how the Chinese have it, but our air defense system cannot be penetrated without the use of nuclear weapons. This is not my opinion. This is the opinion of analysts. the Bundeswehr and also Majmur from NI. A nuclear strike will put an end to the United States and civilization in general.
          2. OgnennyiKotik
            OgnennyiKotik 30 January 2021 16: 12
            +4
            Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
            Why will it be different with helicopters?


            The helicopter flies slowly and low. Correspondingly, the range of direct radio visibility decreases, it is more difficult to determine the target against the background of the earth and understand that this is a helicopter, and not another object. But for AWACS this is not very important. It gives the detection range, conventionally from 500 to 350-400 km, which will not save the helicopter.
            For ground-based radars, this is critical, a helicopter, especially a modern western one, can detect a target theoretically at a distance of 20-30 km, in practice it simply does not see. Therefore, helicopters are the most effective means against ground-based radars.
            1. Ratmir_Ryazan
              Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 17: 52
              -4
              Therefore, helicopters are the most effective means against ground-based radars.


              I strongly doubt their effectiveness.

              In the extreme conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh, the Armenian side, even without AWACS aircraft, managed to shoot down a helicopter, and there mountains and superiority in Azerbaijan and Pashinyan's betrayal.

              And to count on the fact that the enemy will not have an AWACS aircraft in my opinion is not worth it at all.

              By the way, it would not hurt us ourselves, in addition to the A-50/100, an AWACS aircraft that was smaller and more economical of the type of the Yak-44 project, otherwise the Apaches would arrange them for us again on June 22, 1941.
              1. OgnennyiKotik
                OgnennyiKotik 30 January 2021 18: 17
                +2
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                I strongly doubt their effectiveness.

                Do not doubt. Naturally, they work in conjunction with aviation. In Iraq and Yugoslavia, the Apaches proved to be extremely effective against ground-based air defense.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                in Nagorno-Karabakh, the Armenian side managed to shoot down a helicopter without AWACS aircraft,

                1 Mi-17 and 1 Su-25, which is extremely small in the presence of an echeloned NKR air defense system and the inadequacy of aircraft data to work in the air defense zone.
                Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                by the way, in addition to the A-50/100, an AWACS aircraft would be a smaller and more economical type of the Yak-44 project

                I strongly disagree in the wording "did not interfere". We vitally need more than 50 A-100, 100 simpler AWACS and RER, 150 tankers. Without them, the air defense and air force are virtually incapable of combat.
                1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                  Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 18: 27
                  0
                  In Iraq, the Apaches worked against long-range air defense, moreover, stationary, old, moreover, putting interference. And if it were covered with modern air defense systems, I think the alignment would be different.

                  Regarding the layered air defense of the Armenians, I do not agree at all, they could not remove the UAV from the sky, so 1 helicopter and 1 attack aircraft is a direct result for the Armenians. Not dry.

                  Regarding AWACS and RER aircraft, of course I agree.

                  I don’t understand why the Yak-44 project was not put into production, because it can be used not only on an aircraft carrier, but in general, anywhere else and other countries would buy it. As a means of duty for detecting UAVs and cruise missiles and everything else, you can drive for days, and the Il-76 will get tired of refueling and take off it needs an airfield, and the Yak-44 can be lifted off the road.

                  And nothing is heard about work in this direction.
                  1. OgnennyiKotik
                    OgnennyiKotik 30 January 2021 20: 14
                    0
                    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                    In Iraq, the Apaches worked against long-range air defense, moreover, stationary, old, moreover, putting interference. And if it were covered with modern air defense systems, I think the alignment would be different.

                    At the time of the first war, the Iraqi air defense was at the peak of modernity, the second was tired, but not much.
                    Naturally, helicopters work in conjunction with all types of troops.
                    Regarding the current reality, Apaches are sufficient, a new ALE program has been adopted for the future. According to it, the development of new UAV complexes, a change in tactics and interaction with the latest army systems. Well, new helicopters / tiltrotors.

                    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                    And nothing is heard about work in this direction.

                    Apparently the 2014 sanctions cut these projects.
                    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                    I do not agree at all about the layered air defense of the Armenians, they could not remove the UAV from the sky

                    Let's put it mildly not.
                    Losses confirmed by photo / video (actually even more) of Azerbaijan:
                    Aircraft and Helicopters (13, of which destroyed: 13)
                    11 An-2
                    1 Mi-8/17
                    1 Su-25
                    Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (25, of which destroyed: 22, captured: 3)
                    1 Aerostar surveillance UAV:
                    11 IAI Harop
                    2 SkyStriker
                    1 Orbiter 1K
                    2 Bayraktar TB2 UCAV:
                    8 Unknown UAV:

                    Given the size of the territory, the Armenians had a very powerful air defense system, this is a very large problemof course, official propaganda hides this and redirects the emphasis to something else. Because the Armenian air defense is part of the Russian, de jure and de facto. Joint drills to counter UAVs were held 2 months before the war.
                    The Armenians, on a small area, used various ZU / ZSU, Tunguska, MANPADS, Wasps, Strela-10, TORs, Buki, S-300, various radars, electronic warfare systems. Moreover, the Torah and electronic warfare systems of the latest modifications, the S-300 are modernized.
                    Azerbaijan won tactically and technically.

                    Here are just the losses of Armenians from photos and videos, in fact, many times more:
                    Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (3, of which captured: 3)
                    3 9K338 Igla-S

                    Self-propelled anti-aircraft guns (7, of which destroyed: 1, captured: 6)
                    7 ZSU-23-4 'Shilka'

                    Surface-to-air missile systems (29, of which destroyed: 26, captured: 3)

                    3 9K35 Strela-10
                    15 9K33 Osa:
                    3 2K12 Kub:
                    1 2K11 Krug:
                    4 5P85S (launcher for S-300PS)
                    1 5P85D (launcher for S-300PS)
                    1 S-300 component:
                    1 Tor-M2KM

                    Radars (15, of which destroyed: 12, captured: 3)
                    1 P-15 'Flat Face A'
                    2 P-18 'Spoon Rest D'
                    1 P-19 'Flat Face B'
                    4 ST86U / 36D6 'Tin Shield' (for S-300)
                    1 SNR-125 'Low Blow' (for S-125)
                    2 5N63S 'Flap Lid' (for S-300):
                    1 19J6 (for S-300):
                    1 1S32 'Pat Hand' (for 2K11 Krug)
                    2 1S91 SURN (for 2K12 Kub)

                    Jammers and Deception systems (2, of which destroyed: 2)
                    1 R-330P Piramida-I: (1, destroyed)
                    1 Repellent-1: (1, destroyed)

                    Decoys (2, of which destroyed: 2)
                    2 Decoy 9K33 Osa:
                    1. OgnennyiKotik
                      OgnennyiKotik 30 January 2021 20: 40
                      -3
                      Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                      Tunguska

                      Shilki
            2. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 31 January 2021 14: 27
              +2
              Quote: OgnennyiKotik
              The helicopter flies slowly and low ..

              Modern radars easily react to the rotation of the screws and there is no getting away from it
              1. Dread
                Dread 1 February 2021 03: 33
                0
                Quote: OgnennyiKotik
                For ground-based radars, this is critical, a helicopter, especially a modern western one, can detect a target theoretically at a distance of 20-30 km, in practice, he simply does not see. Therefore, helicopters are the most effective means against ground-based radars.

                Do not write fables. Radar with coherent signal processing - easily detects any helicopters at a distance of 30 km (if the line of sight allows) and then the air defense system destroys the target.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          3. nemez
            nemez 31 January 2021 02: 34
            +1
            I compared the ass to the finger. Serbia was surrounded on all sides, and the territories were incomparable.
          4. nov_tech.vrn
            nov_tech.vrn 31 January 2021 15: 17
            +1
            Many tales have been told about the past intervention of NATO forces in the former Yugoslavia, but after the end of hostilities, it turned out that the Yugoslav army did not lose its combat capability, and did not suffer large losses. Moreover, the cleanup of the history of the losses of the NATO Air Force and the number of cruise missiles shot down immediately began. This despite the fact that the Yugoslavs did not have modern air defense forces, and did not have the strength and political will, to punish the aggressor on its territory.
            1. Pete mitchell
              Pete mitchell 1 February 2021 19: 21
              +3
              Quote: nov_tech.vrn
              Many tales have been told about the past intervention of NATO forces in the former Yugoslavia, but after the end of hostilities, it turned out that the Yugoslav army ...
              inflicted very sensitive blows on the aggressors: at least two groups of marines performing rescue operations were shot on the ground; the raid of the ancient Galebos on the Apache base will generally go down in history, but the information field is controlled by the bourgeoisie
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. Ruslan Sledkov
            Ruslan Sledkov 1 February 2021 17: 12
            0
            You forget about electronic warfare
        3. ccsr
          ccsr 30 January 2021 16: 00
          +2
          Quote: akarfoxhound
          That is why on the field of anti-tank combat with the participation of attack helicopters, V-V missiles on turntables are not a bad idea.

          I think that we have approached a new phase in the development of helicopter armament, and this fits well into the concept of modern air combat against opponents of equal strength and armament.
          Suffice it to recall how air defense systems developed in our country, when from stationary missile positions they switched to mobile ones in the air defense of the Ground Forces, and then to portable air defense systems of motorized rifle units, to understand that helicopters can successfully withstand enemy aircraft. Probably it will justify itself - so apparently our theorists of military science decided. The practice of conflicts of low intensity will show how correct the choice was made.
          1. dauria
            dauria 30 January 2021 23: 17
            0
            The practice of conflicts of low intensity will show how correct the choice was made.


            Aviation And Time 1996 03
            Rotary-winged Stormtrooper Mil
            Vadim R. Mikheev

            The first battle between helicopters, which became the first such event in world history, took place in November of the same year near the city of Dezful. A pair of Sea Cobras, approaching unnoticed to a pair of Mi-24s, attacked them with ATGMs. One Iraqi helicopter was immediately shot down, the second was damaged and, having flown about 10 km, crashed. The Iranians landed near the crash site of one of them and captured the surviving Iraqi major. The second duel between the Mi-24 and the AN-1J took place on April 24, 1981 in the area of ​​the Panjevin settlement, and again the Iranians were successful - they again shot down two Iraqi vehicles with ATGMs.
            The Iraqi helicopter pilots were able to take revenge only on September 14, 1983, when Mi-24 attacked and shot down the Sea Cobra near the city of Basra. On February 25, 1984, several "twenty-fours" fought with the AN-1J group and destroyed three Iranian helicopters. February 13, 1986 The Mi-24 shot down the Sea Cobra again, and the Iranians also announced one victory. On February 16, the Khomeini Falcons missed another Sea Cobra, but already on February 18, Saddam Hussein's pilots, who lost one Mi-24 in an air battle, suffered a setback. On February 5, according to the statement of the Iraqi command, the Mi-24 pilots destroyed three Sea Cobras. The last battle with the AH-1J was registered on May 22, 1986. The Iraqis attacked a couple of Iranian helicopters and shot down one of them. Thus, according to the above data, in the battles between the helicopters, 10 Sea Cobras and 6 Mi-24s were shot down. Western experts say the opposite - 6 Sea Cobras and 10 Mi-24s. Iraqi "twenty-fours" fought with other types of helicopters. So, in May-June 1988 alone, they destroyed six multipurpose AV.214 and one AV.212. In total, during the war, Saddam Hussein's pilots, flying on Mi-8, Mi-24 and Gazelles, shot down 53 enemy helicopters.
            One of the most impressive air victories of the Mi-24 was over the Iranian Phantom, won on October 27, 1982, north of N of the item. Ein Hosha. Most sources claim that the fighter was shot down on a head-on course by ATGMs.
    3. venik
      venik 30 January 2021 14: 57
      -1
      Quote: Victor_B
      Afraid means respected!

      =======
      good Respect - it means they are afraid !!! wassat
  2. Professor
    Professor 30 January 2021 11: 53
    +18
    He writes about it NI.

    Everything is clear, you can not read and limit yourself only to the title.

    PS
    Ka-52 is beyond competition (as a platform).
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 30 January 2021 11: 54
      +25
      Quote: Professor
      Ka-52 is beyond competition (as a platform).

      The professor sold himself to Putin!
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 30 January 2021 12: 13
        +1

        Victor_B (Victor Petrovich)
        Today, 11: 54
        NEW

        +4
        Quote: Professor
        Ka-52 is beyond competition (as a platform).

        The professor sold himself to Putin!
        Well, no, she died so dead! bully The deserter, he is the deserter. laughing Let him please his own there, and tell them about the unsurpassed qualities of ALL Merikatos' trash.
      2. voronkov
        voronkov 30 January 2021 12: 44
        0
        Quote: Victor_B
        Quote: Professor
        Ka-52 is beyond competition (as a platform).

        The professor sold himself to Putin!

        Most likely, they are planning to jointly produce something or they will be tyrit. laughing So it tears .. bully
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 30 January 2021 13: 35
        +3
        Quote: Victor_B
        The professor sold himself to Putin!

        These are not for sale.
    2. Victor_B
      Victor_B 30 January 2021 11: 56
      +7
      Professor, you used to write quite good articles for VO.
      Can you please the masses with your creativity again?
      1. Professor
        Professor 30 January 2021 12: 14
        +2
        Quote: Victor_B
        Professor, you used to write quite good articles for VO.
        Can you please the masses with your creativity again?

        the professor here is no longer a writer.
        1. Victor_B
          Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 18
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          the professor here is no longer a writer.

          Why so?
          Offended by the people?
          Are we having the wrong readers?
          In general, you wrote quite sensibly and readable.
          1. Professor
            Professor 30 January 2021 12: 23
            +4
            Quote: Victor_B
            Why so?

            They pay little. wink

            Quote: Victor_B
            Offended by the people?
            Are we having the wrong readers?
            In general, you wrote quite sensibly and readable.

            Thanks for the compliment. I am not writing here because now the majority are not interested in it, and neither do I. hi
            1. Victor_B
              Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 24
              +5
              Quote: Professor
              I am not writing here because now the majority are not interested in it, and neither do I.

              It's a pity...
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 January 2021 12: 26
                +12
                Quote: Victor_B
                Quote: Professor
                I am not writing here because now the majority are not interested in it, and neither do I.

                It's a pity...

                Come on. But I write comments between the ban and the ban. wassat
                1. Victor_B
                  Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 27
                  +4
                  Quote: Professor
                  But I write comments between the ban and the ban.

                  Love you here for your comments!
                  Strong!
                2. voronkov
                  voronkov 30 January 2021 12: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Come on. But I write comments between ban and ban

                  And how many bans do you have Professor? And why are the shoulder straps constant for five years? Something you are cunning again and I don't even take offense at you for some reason ..)))) Probably got used to it .. wink
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 January 2021 12: 48
                    0
                    Quote: voronkov
                    Quote: Professor
                    Come on. But I write comments between ban and ban

                    And how many bans do you have Professor? And why are the shoulder straps constant for five years? Something you are cunning again and I don't even take offense at you for some reason ..)))) Probably got used to it .. wink

                    1. voronkov
                      voronkov 30 January 2021 13: 00
                      +2
                      What was difficult to write simply? Why do I need this screen ..
                      Put it out better, like in the good old days, a selection of high-quality exercises of the US troops here .. Do you remember? And your vaunted comments .. And who we are in Russia compared to you!
                      Run, complain ..
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 30 January 2021 13: 07
                        -3
                        Quote: voronkov
                        What was difficult to write simply? Why do I need this screen ..

                        Quote: voronkov
                        They twist here

                        Now I understand why the screen?

                        Quote: voronkov
                        Run, complain ..

                        Great honor.
                      2. voronkov
                        voronkov 30 January 2021 13: 57
                        -3
                        Quote: Professor
                        Great honor.

                        We understood each other .. wink
                  2. hydrox
                    hydrox 30 January 2021 13: 44
                    0
                    There it is!
                    And I thought that everyone sees and knows my today's seven, although I skipped last year with a nine! laughing
                  3. Krasnoyarsk
                    Krasnoyarsk 30 January 2021 13: 46
                    +1
                    https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2021-01/1612000143_capture.jpg
                    Oh how !!! And I thought that no one had more warnings than me. I lag behind, however. recourse
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 30 January 2021 13: 37
                0
                Quote: Professor
                Come on. But I write comments between the ban and the ban.

                Scribble, not bad, of course articles are better.
              3. polar fox
                polar fox 30 January 2021 15: 10
                +4
                Quote: Professor
                But I write comments between ban and ban

                here soon they will be banned for thoughts and not only for comments)))
          2. Mountain shooter
            Mountain shooter 30 January 2021 13: 28
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            Thanks for the compliment. I am not writing here because now the majority are not interested in it, and neither do I.

            And I, too, enjoyed following your thoughts. Very balanced ... It's a pity that they stopped ...
            1. voronkov
              voronkov 30 January 2021 14: 04
              -12%
              Quote: Mountain Shooter
              Quote: Professor
              Thanks for the compliment. I am not writing here because now the majority are not interested in it, and neither do I.

              And I, too, enjoyed following your thoughts. Very balanced ... It's a pity that they stopped ...

              Zaliz counted! Aren't you ashamed? Although there are already almost all of them ... bully
              1. Pashhenko Nikolay
                Pashhenko Nikolay 30 January 2021 14: 20
                +6
                The person expressed his opinion. Or your only correct one?
              2. Mountain shooter
                Mountain shooter 30 January 2021 15: 05
                +4
                Quote: voronkov
                Zaliz counted! Aren't you ashamed? Although there are already almost all of them ...

                Rudeness is taken into account ...
      2. aszzz888
        aszzz888 30 January 2021 12: 32
        +4

        Professor (Sokolov Oleg)
        Today, 12: 14

        0
        Quote: Victor_B
        Professor, you used to write quite good articles for VO.
        Can you please the masses with your creativity again?

        the professor here is no longer a writer.
        I went to sob and ask to come back! tongue
        1. voronkov
          voronkov 30 January 2021 12: 52
          +1
          Quote: aszzz888

          Professor (Sokolov Oleg)
          Today, 12: 14

          0
          Quote: Victor_B
          Professor, you used to write quite good articles for VO.
          Can you please the masses with your creativity again?

          the professor here is no longer a writer.
          I went to sob and ask to come back! tongue

          I also shed a tear for "our professor" .. How he suffers from misunderstanding and writes all the same))))
      3. Dym71
        Dym71 30 January 2021 13: 04
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        the professor here is no longer a writer.

        Flint! smile
        And so it's a pity, the photos for your articles were the best on VO. good
    3. figwam
      figwam 30 January 2021 12: 23
      0
      Quote: Victor_B
      Professor, you used to write quite good articles for VO.

      Do you think that this is the same person? You underestimate the cunning of the Israelites.
      1. voronkov
        voronkov 30 January 2021 12: 55
        0
        Quote: figvam
        Quote: Victor_B
        Professor, you used to write quite good articles for VO.

        Do you think that this is the same person? You underestimate the cunning of the Israelites.

        They twist here especially with avatars with the flags of the USSR .. But they did it all with cleaning up the site .. Well done! They played beautifully on patriotism and then cleaned up ..
  3. Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 30 January 2021 13: 56
    +3
    I don't like how his 2A42 is fixed and you have to turn the whole car in order to take aim in comparison with the mi 28.
    1. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 30 January 2021 14: 14
      +6
      And here Andrei is the difference in maneuverability, accuracy and range of confident defeat. Maybe my opinion is subjective, but 28 is incomplete, reagently pressed not deserved. It would be better for the Kamovskys to return to the 50 car (with updates).
      1. abc_alex
        abc_alex 31 January 2021 23: 04
        -1
        Quote: zadorin1974
        And here Andrei is the difference in maneuverability, accuracy and range of confident defeat. Maybe my opinion is subjective, but 28 is incomplete, reagently pressed not deserved. It would be better for the Kamovskys to return to the 50 car (with updates).

        The Mi-28 is not incomplete. This is a helicopter from the 70s. If it were not for the Kamov lobby, which slowed down the competition for an attack helicopter for almost 10 years, the Mi-28 would have already been removed from service. The Mi-28 was ready for production in the mid-80s, "before the humpback".
        The Ka-50 is stillborn. He never became a weapon. Even at the test site in an unknown target environment, the Ka-50 was not combat-ready: the pilot simply could not cope with piloting and finding a target.

        As for the cannon, try to spin yourself sharply back and forth 360 degrees, and then hit the switch button with your finger. The tales of the Kamovites about the uselessness of a rotary turret are complete nonsense. The Milevites did not make the cannon out of a hangover, but according to the STRONG requirements of the Armed Forces, and according to the experience of using the Mi-28 strike in Afghanistan. A helicopter battle is not a merry-go-round in a park, with sharp turns to and fro, with a radius of several meters and a frantic angular velocity, the pilots do not get fun. In addition, let me remind you that by turning the body, the Ka-52 changes the angle of view, that is, it risks turning backwards towards the enemy.
        The MI-28 cannon has drawbacks, but it is nevertheless a full-fledged strike machine. Unlike...
        1. fone
          fone 1 February 2021 04: 24
          +1
          The Mi-28 is not incomplete. This is a helicopter from the 70s. If not for the Kamov lobby ...

          That is, the fact that the Mi-28 flew in 1982, lagging behind your own concept of "helicopter of the 70s", is to blame Kamov lobby? Oh how)

          The MI-28 cannon has drawbacks, but it is nevertheless a full-fledged strike machine. Unlike...

          In my opinion, the Mi-28 is a flying coffin - with poor maneuverability; with a flight time of 2 hours, limited by overheating of the main gearbox; with a suicide conscript in the front cockpit.
          1. abc_alex
            abc_alex 4 February 2021 09: 49
            0
            Quote: fone
            That is, the fact that the Mi-28 flew in 1982, lagging behind your own concept of "helicopter of the 70s", is the Kamov lobby to blame? Oh how)

            Sure. For the sake of the Kamovites, the competition was stretched in time, the intermediate stages were shifted, the requirements were revised, then the terms were revised again. Yes, the helicopter implements the concept of the 70s, when no one thought about the radar on the helicopter. Initially, the PNA was set to be electron-optical. And it was made just like that. And it should have been accepted that way. And in the 90s it would have already become obsolete, and now it has been massively withdrawn from the troops. It is the Kamov lobby that is to blame for the fact that instead of a not revolutionary, but a good attack helicopter, money and time were spent on a whistle-making deal, which turned out to be unsuitable for combat and from which the same Mi-28 only with a coaxial scheme turned out anyway. And 20 years later.

            Quote: fone
            in my opinion, the Mi-28 is a flying coffin - with poor maneuverability; with a flight time of 2 hours, limited by overheating of the main gearbox; with a suicide conscript in the front cockpit.

            For God's sake. Only the Kamov car is still weaving at this "coffin" in the tail. And neither the radar nor the maneuverability save it. Until the Milians on the 28th do something new, the Kamovites sit with their cinematographers in an embrace. They have a helicopter, they have a radar station, they have a cannon, but there was no combat vehicle, and they never did. And they don't know what to do next. Right now, the residents of Ryazan have made for the Mi-28, though not the very best, but an overhead radar, immediately there was news about new long-range helicopter missiles, and even with a seeker. And what about the Kamovites from the phazotronovskoy radar station? They have a radar for so many le! Why are they all flying with the Kolomna assaults, which does not use the radar? We never thought that a combat helicopter is not an aerobatic hopper, but a rather complex technical complex that is not enough to assemble, it needs to be developed. And everything in it should correspond to each other. If the detection system sees 10 km away, and the sight at 5 km, then either one is superfluous or the other is insufficient.
            1. infantryman2020
              infantryman2020 4 February 2021 13: 41
              0
              It's even scary to think (in a positive sense) what we would have now if all the resources were spent on the development and development of one combat helicopter, and not two ...
              1. abc_alex
                abc_alex 5 February 2021 13: 00
                0
                Quote: infantryman2020
                It's even scary to think (in a positive sense) what we would have now if all the resources were spent on the development and development of one combat helicopter, and not two ...


                They would have had an attack helicopter with radar and ATGMs with GOS, so adored by local warriors. For example, Phazotron simply would not have had the audacity to refuse to develop a supra-sleeve radar. As it was in real life.
                He will be there now. Only much later.
                But, in fairness: for KB Kamov, this competition was almost the only chance to stay afloat. They were not out of spite, they had no choice.
        2. zadorin1974
          zadorin1974 1 February 2021 05: 59
          +1
          MI 28 was originally an unfinished machine. It is necessary to fix the gearbox problem only by the 2010s. How many cars are attacked? To reach the second control panel after the loss of several pilot-operators. Regarding the rotary gun, have you tried to shoot from 2a42? Better then behaves in a rather peculiar way, due to the bending of the trunk, dispersion in a burst from the tram stop. Only we do not have reinforcing casings on the modules and towers. The Milevskys really back in Avgan, at the request of the Armed Forces, replaced the machine-gun turret on the MI 24 with a rigidly fixed cannon. "tool".
          1. abc_alex
            abc_alex 4 February 2021 10: 00
            0
            Quote: zadorin1974
            MI 28 was originally an unfinished machine. It is necessary to fix the gearbox problem only by the 2010s. How many cars are attacked? To reach the second control panel after the loss of several pilot-operators. Regarding the rotary cannon, did you try to shoot from 2a42 yourself?

            The problem with the gearbox was identified in the 90s, and solved by 2000. The project was renewed only after that.
            The gun was chosen from what was according to the TTZ for the power of ammunition and armor penetration.
            1. zadorin1974
              zadorin1974 4 February 2021 11: 51
              0
              Shavings in the oil system? Elimination by changing the periodicity of maintenance and reducing the resource? At the expense of TTZ it is clear. MO wanted to reduce the cost of ammunition.
              1. abc_alex
                abc_alex 5 February 2021 12: 53
                0
                Quote: zadorin1974
                Shavings in the oil system? Elimination by changing the periodicity of maintenance and reducing the resource? At the expense of TTZ it is clear. MO wanted to reduce the cost of ammunition.


                Not. The gearbox has been completely redesigned.
                Not. Ammunition was selected for the type of targets hit.
                1. zadorin1974
                  zadorin1974 5 February 2021 13: 54
                  0
                  I will not argue, you have your own knowledge. I have mine. Each technique has its own cemetery, Ka 50-52 has an order of magnitude less. I will not change my opinion (it may be biased). Respectfully.
    2. Thomas N.
      Thomas N. 31 January 2021 19: 57
      0
      Quote: Incvizitor

      Nice photos.

      Quote: Incvizitor
      I don't like how his 2A42 is fixed and you have to turn the whole car in order to take aim in comparison with the mi 28.

      Guidance drives allow you to aim the gun at a target on the side of the Mi-28 without turning the helicopter and there is probably an automatic target tracking, but shooting like this when the helicopter is flying away from a single target will only waste cartridges due to dispersion. So you can shoot only from a hovering helicopter or across the area.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 30 January 2021 11: 58
    +1
    And an interesting strategy of vibrating money for the military-industrial complex is constantly, and any technique, to whom, in some way is inferior. That is cheaper, sometimes simpler, or even more expensive, but it means more high-tech and therefore again inferior - yes, this is not even a gold bottom, but a bottom with a diamond cottage! Always and in any cases there is a reason to ask for money.
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 11: 59
    0
    It is unrealistic to shoot down an airplane by a helicopter, and even a 5th generation fighter, but another helicopter or UAV is quite possible.

    A good decision, although how much time will really show.

    The use of helicopters to destroy UAVs was in Ukraine.

    But how much this will be possible in modern combat where the enemy's air defense can shoot everything around for 100 km is not yet clear. Changing a helicopter for a UAV is not very practical.
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 07
      -2
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      A plane to shoot down a helicopter and even a 5th generation fighter is unrealistic

      In Iraq, the grandfather from the caramult Apache flunked!
      So, in war - as in war! There are various miracles.
      1. Dikson
        Dikson 30 January 2021 12: 11
        +1
        In Afghanistan, the grandfathers of the caramultuk armored personnel carriers pierced through ... nothing surprising .. I remember in the distant almost 90s (the very beginning) I read about one of our nugget student, who managed to make a cartridge for 12 caliber on his knee at home, which is also The APC sewed like a newspaper .. I wonder what happened to this student ...
        1. Ratmir_Ryazan
          Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 16
          +3
          In Afghanistan, the grandfathers of the caramultuk armored personnel carriers pierced through ... nothing surprising .. I remember in the distant almost 90s (the very beginning) I read about one of our nugget student, who managed to make a cartridge for 12 caliber on his knee at home, which is also The APC sewed like a newspaper .. I wonder what happened to this student ...


          Nonsense
      2. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 13
        0
        In Iraq, the grandfather from the caramult Apache flunked!


        Don't believe stupid propaganda.

        In Iraq, the United States conducted an unsuccessful raid on the rear of the Iraqis, about 30 helicopters came under anti-aircraft fire from a large Iraqi unit, while many helicopters, although damaged, were able to return to their bases except for one that made an emergency landing. This helicopter was then bombed by US aircraft, and the pilots were returned.
        And the grandfather with the rifle is just an element of propaganda.

        It would be better if the Iraqis quickly evacuated the Apache, leaving some mock-up at the site of its landing for destruction by the Americans and lulling their vigilance and transferred it to the same Iran or Russia for copying technologies and studying - that would be a blow to the United States
        1. Victor_B
          Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 16
          +2
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          Don't believe stupid propaganda.

          And why not?
          After all, American propaganda about the poisoning by a Novice whoever gets in you believe!
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 22
            -2
            Because believing in stupid propaganda, you can draw the wrong conclusions and make the wrong decisions, which ultimately lead to disaster.

            An example of the collapse of the USSR, where they talked about the "angry" West.
            1. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk 30 January 2021 13: 53
              +6
              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              An example of the collapse of the USSR, where they talked about the "angry" West.

              The USSR collapsed because it talked about the decaying West?
              Doesn't it rot? I mean, first of all, spirituality. Is not it so?
              1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 17: 39
                -5
                It was the economy of our country that rotted under the USSR and was unable to feed the people, who then sold everything for jeans and chewing gum.

                And this is a fact, but nothing happened to the West, in the United States the population from 1991 to 2020 grew from 250 to 325 million people !!! And we only lost 2020 people in 500, and since 000 we have in general population decline.

                This is what the silly propaganda has led to!

                It was not necessary to amuse the people with fairy tales, but to carry out reforms and really look at things. China was able to switch to a market economy without splitting the country, and today this country is the world's # 2 economy, and tomorrow it may become # 1.

                You cannot feed a hungry person with stories about spirituality.
                1. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk 30 January 2021 18: 22
                  +7
                  Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                  This is what the silly propaganda has led to!

                  Yes, there was not enough sausage, so they destroyed it. Only those who had enough sausage brought down the USSR. And you, today, with their voice, are moaning about the "decayed" economy of the USSR.
                  I got married in 79 when I was demobilized and, having separated from my parents, without any problems bought a refrigerator, a color TV, a washing machine. Everything was in the store. Moreover, there was a wide choice. And at 87, after returning from "Chernobyl" on the preferential lists, I entered the queue for the purchase of a vacuum cleaner (!!!). What happened? The factories producing household appliances stopped working? Not!!! We worked! It's just that the humpback was preparing the country for collapse! The entire shortage, and food too, was created artificially.
                  In order for such gullible ones as you to believe in the incapacity of the Soviet economy. And they did it.
                  1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                    Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 18: 51
                    -2
                    Vali those who had enough, and those who just lacked their support, and there were 299 million such people.

                    My grandfather, the chairman of the state farm, his house was with a toilet on the street until the 80s, while the Armenian shabashniki did not make an extension in brick thick, there was nothing to buy a brick or a forest even before Gorbachev !!! And this was with the chairman of the state farm, and the rest lived even worse.

                    In 1976, my mother and my grandmother went to Moscow from Tambov to buy polto to school, because nothing was sold in the Tambov region, everything that came was grabbed by thieves, familiar officials from the trade !!!

                    In order for a collective farmer to buy a miserable carpet, he had to hand over several dozen ducks first, hammer and pluck, and then pay for the carpet !!!

                    From the Ryazan region, in order to buy sweets for children for the new year, they went from organizations to Moscow theaters, but in fact to shops, so that the children had at least some kind of holiday !!!

                    Grandmother, again, all her life from the Ryazan region to Moscow went to pamper her children with at least something, and all this was before Gorbachev !!!

                    Where did you live, that you had everything in stores?
                    1. Krasnoyarsk
                      Krasnoyarsk 31 January 2021 00: 46
                      +2
                      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                      they didn’t make it into a brick thick, neither brick nor wood could be bought even before Gorbachev !!! And this was with the chairman of the state farm, and the rest lived even worse.

                      Because a lot was built in the country and brick factories could not cope with the production of building materials. And the timber industry enterprises could not cope. You just need to understand this, and not blame everything thoughtlessly. Nobody says that there were no problems in the USSR, there were also big problems. And today the common man has no problems? Is he doing well today?
                      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
                      They went from Tambov to Moscow, because nothing was sold in the Tambov region, everything that came was snatched up by thieves, acquaintances of officials from the trade !!!

                      Well, yes, 10000 coats arrived in Tambov and all of them were taken by thieves, of whom there were 100 people in the city. And so all the inhabitants of the city walked naked.
                      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

                      In order for a collective farmer to buy a miserable carpet, he had to hand over several dozen ducks first, hammer and pluck, and then pay for the carpet !!!

                      Yes, you understand, the country could not build 1000 factories in order to urgently supply everyone with carpets. And 2-3 factories could not satisfy everyone overnight. Because everyone wanted to buy them, because people had money.
                      Is it better now? The shops have everything, but does everyone have the opportunity to buy what they want?
                  2. lopvlad
                    lopvlad 30 January 2021 19: 52
                    -1
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    Only those who had enough sausage brought down the USSR. And you, today, with their voice, are moaning about the "decayed" economy of the USSR.


                    it was just necessary to make sausage without meat from chemicals, as it is now, and the whole USSR would instantly be filled with sausage.
        2. kit88
          kit88 30 January 2021 14: 45
          +7
          It would be better if the Iraqis quickly evacuated the Apache, leaving some kind of model at the site of its landing.

          And who said that it was not done.
        3. lopvlad
          lopvlad 30 January 2021 19: 48
          0
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          Don't believe stupid propaganda.


          the windshield of the Apache cockpit is not armored but made of plexiglass.
      3. Avior
        Avior 30 January 2021 12: 50
        0
        Karamultuk, everyone can, and even a helicopter, a trifling matter smile .
        But a hoe plane is not everyone is capable of ...

        smile
    2. nsm1
      nsm1 30 January 2021 12: 11
      -2
      In a duel situation it is not real, so why not?
      The rocket doesn't care.
      1. Victor_B
        Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 13
        +5
        Quote: nsm1
        In a duel situation

        The Yankees don't bother with such nonsense.
        Fly up unnoticed and shoot down from a long distance.
        That's the whole duel!
      2. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 20
        +2
        There are no duels in war, there is strategy and tactics.

        Helicopters will be sent into battle after gaining air supremacy and also in the area of ​​action of their own air defense that will interact with AWACS and electronic warfare aircraft, so flying up unnoticed by a helicopter to shoot down another helicopter or even an aircraft and quietly leave will not work.

        Although it may work under some conditions, only so far I can not even imagine in what.
    3. Professor
      Professor 30 January 2021 12: 19
      -1
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      The use of helicopters to destroy UAVs was in Ukraine.

      The Apache, unlike the Mi-28, shot down both planes and drones.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 27
        +1
        What did you bring down? ATGM or from a 30-mm cannon?
        1. Professor
          Professor 30 January 2021 12: 33
          -1
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          What did you bring down? ATGM or from a 30-mm cannon?

          AF AH-64s occasionally saw use in the air-to-air role. The first operational air-to-air kill took place on 24 May 2001, after a civilian Cessna 152 aircraft entered Israeli airspace from Lebanon and repeatedly refused to answer or comply with air traffic control (ATC) warnings; an IAF AH-64A fired on the Cessna, resulting in its disintegration.
          https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/1,7340,L-761410,00.html
          לדבריו, "המטוס הקל טס בגובה נמוך מעל החוף ואז אחד האפאצ'ים התחיל לירות לעברו ואחרי היריות הוא שלח טיל שפגע במטוס
          Rocket

          The second air-to-air kill occurred on 10 February 2018, after an Iranian UAV entered Israeli airspace from Syria, an AH-64 destroyed it with a missile.
          Rocket
          1. Ratmir_Ryazan
            Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 38
            +1
            Slow Tsesna and the same low-speed UAV ATGM can be overwhelmed, but also not easy. The pilots are seen as pros.

            An air-to-air missile is more convenient and the possibilities are wider.

            A helicopter with an explosive missile is such a "light" interceptor. Its advantages are that it can take off from any small area and intercept targets.
            1. Professor
              Professor 30 January 2021 12: 45
              -1
              Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
              Slow Tsesna and the same low-speed UAV ATGM can be overwhelmed, but also not easy. The pilots are seen as pros.

              An air-to-air missile is more convenient and the possibilities are wider.

              A helicopter with an explosive missile is such a "light" interceptor. Its advantages are that it can take off from any small area and intercept targets.

              The only plus is that the turntable is always at hand, especially for low-speed low-speed targets. A helicopter is not an air defense system.
      2. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 30 January 2021 14: 40
        -3
        Greetings to Oleg. Well, except for the premature Mil and 24, who shot down the F-4 and in 99 in Serbia Apache and Hawk dropped in one battle. In Nicaragua, Saber with A37. The crocodile has a solid track record.
      3. Local from the Volga
        Local from the Volga 31 January 2021 05: 25
        0
        CNN ????! Neighing!
    4. Ruslan Sledkov
      Ruslan Sledkov 1 February 2021 17: 22
      0
      In close combat, why not
  • The comment was deleted.
  • imirvladisav
    imirvladisav 30 January 2021 12: 11
    -4
    AH-64 Apache is a good machine and there are many of them, 1650 produced on (June 2020)
  • forty-eighth
    forty-eighth 30 January 2021 12: 15
    0
    How old is Apache?
    1. Victor_B
      Victor_B 30 January 2021 12: 22
      0
      Quote: forty-eighth
      How old is Apache?

      A lot of! But not much more than the Mi-28.
      The first flight of the Mi-28 on November 10, 1982.
    2. hydroy
      hydroy 30 January 2021 12: 23
      0
      Since 1975 machine, 46 years machine
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 30 January 2021 12: 29
        +4
        The Apache platform is constantly being modernized, all systems are being improved from avionics to weapons and engines.

        The difference in the Apaches of the current and those that were produced earlier is about the same as that of the Su-35 and Su-27, although outwardly these platforms are very similar, but very different in capabilities.

        So, what can I say, that the Apache is an old helicopter is not worth it.
        1. hydroy
          hydroy 30 January 2021 12: 33
          +1
          I'm not saying, simply, the concept is 46 years old, everything else has been replaced many times with fresh! As well as MI-28, MI-28N, MI-28NM)
        2. lopvlad
          lopvlad 30 January 2021 19: 55
          0
          Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
          that the old Apache helicopter is not worth it.


          just like presenting it as new and modern.
  • voronkov
    voronkov 30 January 2021 12: 40
    -11%
    "Not in our favor": Americans compared the Mi-28NM with the "Apache"

    Everything is tested in battle "gentlemen" .. I remember Germany, too, boasted of its "tigers" and other jet fighters ..
    We Russians usually test our weapons in battle! And then they go into series and then ten times we correct the shortcomings identified in combat conditions. Our turntables are simple and tenacious, like a Kalashnikov assault rifle .. They have been tested in many hot spots. This newest helicopter is also being tested and not at your exhibitions and other show-offs ..It will be an attack helicopter and better than the legendary "Crocodile" hi
  • DominickS
    DominickS 30 January 2021 12: 50
    +4
    Meanwhile, there is still no intelligible analogue of the Hellfire on the Mi-28.
    1. Gosha Smirnov
      Gosha Smirnov 30 January 2021 13: 34
      +3
      He has a lot of things
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 30 January 2021 12: 50
    +2
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    It is unrealistic to shoot down an airplane by a helicopter, and even a 5th generation fighter, but another helicopter or UAV is quite possible.

    A good decision, although how much time will really show.

    The use of helicopters to destroy UAVs was in Ukraine.

    But how much this will be possible in modern combat where the enemy's air defense can shoot everything around for 100 km is not yet clear. Changing a helicopter for a UAV is not very practical.

    The impression from your comments is that the opposing side has nothing more to deal with enemy aircraft. soldier
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 30 January 2021 12: 53
    -1
    What a day that is, only good news from the United States. We must knock on wood!
  • svp67
    svp67 30 January 2021 12: 54
    0
    It is not a bad "topic" to destroy UAVs with helicopters. Especially with "nadvulochnye" radar
    1. Gosha Smirnov
      Gosha Smirnov 30 January 2021 13: 33
      +1
      They have been used for this for a very long time and destroyed balloons, UAVs and even light-engine aircraft
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Lesorub
    Lesorub 30 January 2021 13: 42
    +3
    In turn, the AH-64 Apache does not have air-to-air missiles

    Apaches have stingers as standard weapons (I remember flashing photos from Desert Storm - where the Apaches appeared with these missiles)!
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 30 January 2021 13: 48
    +1
    Well, they will definitely not be knocked down from the Berdank, the cabin was fired upon during the test of the norms https://ok.ru/video/11424040311
  • Decimalegio
    Decimalegio 30 January 2021 13: 51
    0
    Of course, a helicopter, not appreciated in my part, where kamov is preferable, is considered better
  • Vadim Ananyin
    Vadim Ananyin 30 January 2021 14: 08
    0
    In fact, they can install systems without any effort, but some kind of incomprehensible howl, if according to the text. Of course the Apache car is not new, but the Mi-24 is not new either. The upgrade on the 24th raised its capabilities by an order of magnitude. 28 - generally came out hard and for a long time and was done on other formulations of problems.
    They began to install and use the superfluous radar earlier than we did. Therefore, snot on the subject is not clear.
  • Looking for
    Looking for 30 January 2021 16: 22
    0
    the main thing is not which one is better or worse. But how many of them are in the troops.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 30 January 2021 16: 39
    +1
    it is strange that others did not raise the issue of exploitation.
    each turntable has its own problems
    for an American, for example, very expensive maintenance, security and design features severely limit possible tasks.
    Our turntable also has its own problems. Firstly, it is stupidly very heavy, and carries a similar weaponry with the Apache. Secondly, there are problems with the modernity of the filling and upgrades, as well as the quality of the components - for example, at night, American pilots are less tired using infrared equipment. Huge questions about the adequacy of anti-tank missiles and guns.
    So the question is essentially not covered.
  • brostem_2019
    brostem_2019 30 January 2021 16: 40
    +1
    It remains only to measure the canoes ... well, you understand what ...
    We still do not have a normal anti-tank missile for an attack helicopter, according to the "fire and forget" principle, we must always keep the target in sight, unlike our "partners". Thus, endangering the crew, and here again about star wars with the participation of helicopters.
    Rave.... stop
    1. Andrey.AN
      Andrey.AN 30 January 2021 17: 40
      0
      Please tell me what is the urgency of the "fire-forget" missile for the turntable, which reaches its ATGM not only any NATO tanks, but also any of their mobile air defense systems, from distances at which they are powerless. After all, the "fire and forget" rocket does not answer the question of whether it hit or not. In general, the "fire-forget" homing heads for the Attack were created several years ago, maybe they were stamped. Did you hear about Calibers before they were used?
    2. abc_alex
      abc_alex 31 January 2021 23: 23
      0
      Quote: brostem_2019
      It remains only to measure the canoes ... well, you understand what ...
      We still do not have a normal anti-tank missile for an attack helicopter, according to the "fire and forget" principle, we must always keep the target in sight, unlike our "partners". Thus, endangering the crew, and here again about star wars with the participation of helicopters.
      Rave.... stop


      But we have fired and killed rockets. Practice shows that it is more useful. If not in a movie, but in battle. Helicopter crews are exposed to hazards with any type of missile. For example, in a battle MANPADS is a helicopter, the first one wins with a probability of over 70%.
      The helicopter's vulnerability is not that it has such missiles or not. And the fact that the helicopter is BLIND. He has a narrow sector of "sight".
      And our rockets are already good. Powerful, with huge armor penetration, and supersonic. From the moment of launch until the target is hit, no more than 20 seconds pass. At the same time, all this time the helicopter can maneuver, the automatic target holding is working. There is also a targeting machine. But operators prefer manual mode.

      There is no question of any "star wars". Mi-28 initially armed with V-V missiles. A pack of MANPADS with automatic guidance was mounted on it even in the basic version.
  • Andrey.AN
    Andrey.AN 30 January 2021 17: 12
    0
    It is not correct to compare the Apache with the Mi-28, different weight categories. In theory, if a helicopter can afford explosives comparable to missiles for fighters, comparable OLSs, with a comparable speed of turning to a target, a turntable, less speedy, but more secretive, makes fuller use of the terrain, which is also hopeless for AWACS, such as AWACS does not graze from space ...
  • dgonni
    dgonni 30 January 2021 17: 15
    0
    I saw the prototype of the 28th in a Cuban woman in 88-89. And the officers spoke for entering the line in 5 years!
    It's a pity that it took so long.!
  • Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 30 January 2021 20: 04
    +1
    Thus, the Russians are determined to destroy the American AH-64 Apache attack helicopters.

    Wow! "Determined"! Who would have thought?! belay
    attack helicopters ... must dominate the battlefield

    Like, "Otherwise, I don't play like that!" wassat
  • eklmn
    eklmn 30 January 2021 23: 33
    0
    “... but if necessary, Apaches can be armed with air-to-air missiles

    Yes, this phrase is in the orig. article. But the phrase ends with words
    Apache is designed to dominate the [ground] battlefield with massive fire, ”Mitchell said. “They are not made to look for planes that can be shot down.

    More from the original article:
    Mitchell believes an air-to-air missile - such as the Sidewinder on jet fighters - would perform better than the Stinger. But he believes that the most effective air-to-air weapon in a helicopter is his cannon. “In air-to-air battles, the 30mm Apache cannon has always been my favorite weapon.

    But while the score is not in our favor

    This phrase belongs to the translator of the editorial office, to satisfy the patriotic feelings of Russians on weekends, because your everyday life is so harsh ...!
    Original article here:
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/russia%E2%80%99s-mi-28nm-helicopter-could-be-apache%E2%80%99s-worst-nightmare-177357
  • Zlyden.Zlo
    Zlyden.Zlo 31 January 2021 00: 05
    +1
    The main task of such publications is to catch up with horror and to squeeze and cut the loot on a military topic ... Then publications will begin that Russian BSLs are more effective in combat and more invisible in stealth mode. (BSL Big Sapper Shovel)
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 31 January 2021 10: 01
    0
    No need to sculpt a fighter from a helicopter ..... Give a normal 3rd generation ATGM and modern thermal imager and AFAR over the bushing. Communication and data exchange. NM already has something, something still does not.
  • Motor depot
    Motor depot 31 January 2021 15: 38
    +1
    Helicopters are not far-sighted to use for the destruction of aircraft, they must work on the ground. They need to be made cheaper and not wrapped up, what for they are needed for the kind of money that goes astray at once. Landing, evacuation of the wounded, reconnaissance and special operations. This is its purpose, everything else is pumping money out of the budget.
  • Baron pardus
    Baron pardus 1 February 2021 01: 48
    0
    Attaching stingers or Sidewinder to the Apache is a matter of minutes. I am more interested in which of the helicopters has the best radar. Which has better maneuverability. Which has the best booking. Who will better withstand a Sidewinder rocket that exploded 5 meters away? We know that AGM114 of the latest modification fly at 8-8.5 km and work on the principle of "Shoot and forget" (Fire and Forget). And what ATGMs are suspended on the Mi-28NM? What the American "Experts" say, must be divided by eight and the cube root must be taken. If you look at the old editions of "Soviet Military Power", then according to these editions, we generally had EVERYTHING Wunder Waffe. From Migov23h to T-62. I read such a book. There they wrote about T62 - they took pride. And the armor "Better than any other modern tank" and "the most powerful weapon with excellent direct fire range and armor penetration." And "the most reliable diesel". And all 150 pleasures. Why do "experts" write this? And we look who pays them - the Pentagon and the Ministry of Defense. And why? And because when the "Experts" write to the Congress "Everything is lost, we have a khan", they usually add "If you don't give the Pentagon more dough for armament". So EVERYTHING that the experts write has one goal - to get more money from Congress for military spending. And even if it is revealed that the MiG-25 was not equal to the F-15mu, then you can always say "Intelligence is an inaccurate matter, we were deceived. Intelligence was mistaken." Until they figure out who did what, the Pentagon and the military-industrial complex not only received the money, but SPENT it. Pay less attention to the scribbling of any scribblers working, of course, to order. Just yourself, compare the performance characteristics yourself. And we have Marins on the Cobra and the Sidewinder and Stingers hung up. So hanging them on the Apache is a matter of hours.
  • Alexey Zigalov
    Alexey Zigalov 1 February 2021 17: 38
    +1
    Thanks for the timely article. It is obvious to everyone that winning in modern warfare is the conquest of air superiority. For the last twenty years, our generals have been confident that the first task of helicopters is to destroy armored vehicles. The first task is to destroy enemy helicopters, aircraft, cruise missiles and drones. For information, we have about a thousand helicopters, the Americans and NATO 15. Two or three months and we have no helicopters. The plane is made one in two months, one helicopter a month. The Mi-000 made at the end of 24 should be discarded, and the Mi-80, 28 pieces and they are going to win. The army is in a state of 60.
  • alexander ivanov_9
    alexander ivanov_9 6 February 2021 06: 03
    0
    "Flying" airborne combat vehicle - the newest Mi-8AMTSh-VN helicopter - The deep modernization of the helicopter was carried out taking into account the experience of its combat use in Syria during the counter-terrorist operation of the Russian Armed Forces. The specialists have increased the combat effectiveness of the Mi-8ATMSh-VN by optimally combining the principle of a "glass cockpit", reliable analog equipment and a digital autopilot.

    In addition, the Russian defense industry designers have improved the survivability and thrust-to-weight ratio of the vehicle - most of the hull is protected by lightweight Kevlar plates, and also expanded the possibilities for its use in high altitude and hot climates.

    The Sapsan is equipped with the President-S defense complex, which automatically recognizes the launch of a rocket directed towards the helicopter, interferes with any type of guidance head. The vehicle is also equipped with three 12,7-mm Korda machine guns (two course and one - to support the landing) and one 7,62-mm KVP machine gun in the tail section. In addition, it is equipped with "product 305" and a promising guided missile "Hermes-A" with a firing range of up to 40 km. This is twice as much as that of any other helicopter anti-tank guided missiles that are now equipped with the army aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces. It is also planned to equip the upgraded Ka-52M and Mi-28NM with such means of destruction. The Mi-8AMTSh-VN will be able to throw 37 paratroopers into the combat area or evacuate 12 wounded on stretchers. Some sources provide information that the Mi-8AMTSh-VN helicopter is an improved version of the Mi-8/17 helicopter, created taking into account the Syrian experience.
  • Vyacheslav34
    Vyacheslav34 6 February 2021 13: 01
    0
    The Mi-28 is a specially designed armored helicopter and the AN-64 is just a conversion from a civilian helicopter.