The fourth patrol ship of project 22160 was launched in Kerch

The fourth patrol ship of project 22160 "Sergei Kotov" was launched in Kerch. The ceremony took place at the Zaliv shipyard.

The ceremony was attended by the First Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Alexander Vitko, the authorities of the Republic of Crimea, shipbuilders and veterans of the plant.

I am sure that the fate of the ship will turn out and will be successful. It cannot be different. You have invested your knowledge, skills, your Crimean soul in this ship, and therefore it will worthily defend our homeland

- Vitko declared.

The patrol ship "Sergei Kotov" is the fourth ship of Project 22160 and the third serial one. Laid down on May 8, 2016, transfer to the Navy is planned by the end of 2021. The lead ship of the Vasily Bykov series and the first and second serial Dmitry Rogachev and Pavel Derzhavin are already in service, the fourth and fifth serial patrol ships Viktor Veliky and Nikolai Sipyagin are being built in Zelenodolsk. All ships are intended for the Black Sea fleet.

The new patrol ship was named in honor of the Hero of the Soviet Union, a participant in the defense of Odessa and Sevastopol, the liberation of Rear Admiral Sergei Kotov and Novorossiysk and Crimea.

Project 22160 patrol ship (corvette) has a displacement of 1700 tons and is capable of speeds up to 30 knots. Cruising range - 6000 miles, autonomy - 60 days. The crew is 80 people. On board, the Ka-27PS helicopter is based. As standard weapons, the corvettes are equipped with a 76-mm artillery mount, anti-aircraft missile system and machine guns. A place is provided for the placement of various modules (RCC, missiles, electronic warfare, etc.), depending on the tasks performed.

Comments

[Artyom Karagodin]

Another suitcase without a handle, unable to defend itself from a submarine, or from an air strike! It's also slow, so it's hard to drive pirates too!

[Civil]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Another suitcase without a handle, unable to defend itself from a submarine, or from an air strike! It's also slow, so it's hard to drive pirates too!

What is enough money for and what we can make ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

Duc can do better, and much! The same "Karakurt" is superfluous and that would be more useful! Especially if you add GUS and torpedoes to the "Shell". The same "Package-NK".

[Rakovor]

To add all this there, you need to increase the displacement to 2000t. As I understand it, you are very far from the nautical theme, why then bother stupid comments?

[venik]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Duc can do better, and much! The same "Karakurt" is superfluous and that would be more useful! Especially if you add GUS and torpedoes to the "Shell". The same "Package-NK".

==========
And if there is also a helicopter and an assault boat ... Then it comes along, like in that "bearded" anecdote: "... Now, dear passengers, please fasten your belts! Now we are together with all this garbage on board, try take off ..... "
PS The "couch expert" is immediately visible! You are at least aware that the placement of additional equipment and weapons requires strictly defined for each type:
a) internal volumes for equipment placement;
b) free areas on the upper deck and / or superstructures;
c) buoyancy reserves taking into account additional weight (weapons and equipment;
d) additional places and supplies of food and water for additional personnel (crew members serving additional systems)
And so much more!
Now we take "Karakurt" - a machine classroom! But the cruising range and autonomy are not very good! It is understandable - in fact - "a large, seaworthy missile boat."
The layout is like a "duck stuffed with apples" - to shove in another piece - it won't work - it will crack! But even if the impossible was possible - to cram all this "baida" that you propose there), then the following would happen:
a) - the speed would drop to 23-24 knots, the range would be reduced to 1400 - 1500 miles, autonomy - up to 5-6 days ...
b) when moving away from the wall, "this futuristic vessel" would make an "overkill" (even from a wave dispersed by a passing tug!).
PS Sorry, but by your comment, you have demonstrated that you are a "complete amateur"!
Therefore: let's not develop the theory "interaction of plane-polarized gravitational waves with a spherical horse in vacuum "!

[Vladimir Mashkov]

And Ukrainian "mosquitoes" will resist these corvettes ... I do not envy ukram!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Civil

What is enough money for and what we can make ...

There is enough money even for 20386 and 22350. But for some reason, instead of normal ships, the OVR continue to build these "doves of peace".

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Another suitcase without a handle, unable to defend itself from a submarine, or from an air strike!

his tasks are different, he's a patrolman !!! Yes, and I don't like it, but what are we driving pirates with?

[Artyom Karagodin]

Do you think you can drive pirates at full speed of 25 knots?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Do you think you can drive pirates at full speed of 25 knots?

Do you think that the Corvette will chase a 10 meter 500 strong boat straight?

[Artyom Karagodin]

No, but it can become a base for high-speed boats, on which some Somalis can be nibbled. And plus - it can be used not only as a patrol.

We don't have the budget to build highly specialized ships.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

And plus - it can be used not only as a patrol.

no, you can't ...

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

and which some Somalis can be pinched robustly.

the goal is not to pinch, but to prevent

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Tiksi-3

And plus - it can be used not only as a patrol.

no, you can't ...

I actually wrote about the corvette that it can be used to solve various problems. Or do you disagree with this?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Or do you disagree with this?

this project cannot be used as a strike ... or air defense ... or as an anti-aircraft missile ... we cannot ...

[Artyom Karagodin]

And this is its main disadvantage. Hence the opinion (not only mine, by the way) about the uselessness of 22160. The money has been spent, and the exhaust is minimal. While the funds are already limited.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

While the funds are already limited.

Do you know what funds are allocated for our Navy and how they are limited? ... I don’t
I know from Putin's words that our money-box is off scale, and also that the colonels and dIputats simply don’t measure the dough ... since no one can measure it ... so if you want, you can find a lot of money .. ..that only desire interferes

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Do you know what funds are allocated for our Navy

I know of course. Approximately one fourth of the 19 trillion that are pledged to the GPV until 2025. That is, something around 4,5 trillion, a little more, most likely. Funds, as you can see, are limited, but it is necessary to complete the construction of the Borei, Ash trees, and the next generation nuclear submarines are planned to be bookmarked. And also - Lada submarine in several copies. And yet - it is necessary to close BMZ from submarines, for which it is necessary to increase the number of corvettes 20380-85 to acceptable values, and much, much more. But the protection of shipping in the Horn of Africa in importance, of course, covers all this.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

probably.

then you don't know

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

need to finish building "Boreas", "Ash"

they are being completed

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

And also - it is necessary to close BMZ from submarines, for which it is necessary to increase the number of corvettes 20380-85

laid a good streak in the Far East

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Tiksi-3

probably.

then you don't know

Do you need the amount of allocated funds (I indicated it) or up to the fifth decimal place? Why are these nit-picking, Dmitry?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Why are these nit-picking, Dmitry?

well ... let it be so, but you claim that the entire Russian Navy suffers only because of these corvettes .... I disagree with that

[Artyom Karagodin]

No, I mean that funds are wasted. And yes, 22160 is not the only example here if you referred to these ships (I prefer to call them that) as corvettes.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

were described as corvettes.

author error ....
A patrol ship is a ship of the near sea zone ...
In your opinion, the entire US security guard should be dispersed vzasha, tk. they cannot fight the regular navies of the leading naval powers ....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lara Croft

A patrol ship is a ship of the near sea zone ...
In your opinion, the entire US security guard should be dispersed vzasha, tk. they cannot fight the regular navies of the leading naval powers ....

Now, if 22160 went to the BOKHR, there would be no questions. Moreover, initially this project was done just for the FSB.
But why are these PSKRs for the Navy? 90% of the tasks voiced for them do not belong to the competence of the fleet. But the priority tasks facing the ships of the Navy, project 22160, are not able to solve.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lara Croft

Too expensive pleasure for BOHR ...

You might think that PSKR pr. 22100 are cheap.

Quote: Lara Croft

I did not find information about this, but if this is so, then the project was then more flawed in terms of weapons ...

No - the set was exactly the same.
However, for PSKR the set "76 mm, a pair of machine guns, a helicopter and a pair of "zodiacs""It is even redundant in terms of the caliber of the gun - the PSKR's task is not to sink, but to stop the intruder. On the Far East, the border guards managed to sink a 100-meter dry cargo ship from AK-230.

Quote: Lara Croft

Do you think? In vain.

We read carefully:

Quote: Lara Croft

Ships of project 22160 are designed for the protection of territorial waters, patrolling a 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas, suppression of smuggling and piracy activities, to provide assistance to victims of maritime disasters, environmental monitoring of the environment in peacetime, providing security for ships during sea crossings, as well as protecting naval bases and water areas in order to prevent attacks by various enemy forces and assets - in wartime, as well as operations in distant sea and ocean zones.

The highlighted is the task of the FSB. Not the Navy.
And the real 22160 cannot solve the problems you have highlighted - because there is nothing. With his air defense and anti-aircraft defense, he can only divert enemy fire to himself.

Quote: Lara Croft

Why are such characteristics for the SOBR ship:

Because these are not the performance characteristics of real ships ordered by the Navy, but the dreams of designers.

In service with corvettes will be located 3 hydroacoustic complexes for various purposes at once:

"Will be". Not "installed".
In real life, at 22160 there is one anti-sabotage GAS and one GAS PLO seems to have passed the tests.
The only air defense missile system is a column "Needle". Other air defense systems cannot be installed - the nasal slot is occupied by residential and utility rooms. And the issue of placing the antennas of the air defense missile system radar (the same "Orekhov") by the designers was left behind the scenes.

[Lara Croft]

Alexey RA (Alexey)We read carefully:
Quote: Lara Croft
Ships of project 22160 are designed to protect territorial waters, patrol a 200-mile exclusive economic zone in the open and closed seas, suppress smuggling and piracy activities, to provide assistance to victims of maritime disasters, environmental monitoring of the environment in peacetime, provide protection for ships at sea crossings, as well as the protection of naval bases and water areas in order to prevent attacks by various enemy forces and assets - in wartime, as well as operations in distant sea and ocean zones.
The highlighted is the task of the FSB. Not the Navy.

Troll? In vain. It seems that in his commentary he specially highlighted in black what refers to the Navy ...

as well as the protection of naval bases and water areas in order to prevent attacks by various enemy forces and assets - in wartime, as well as operations in distant sea and ocean zones.

The foundations, main goals, strategic priorities and tasks of state policy in the field of the naval activities of the Russian Federation, as well as measures for its implementation, are determined by the President of the Russian Federation.

https://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/navy/task.htm
Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of July 20, 2017 No. 327 "On approval of the Fundamentals of State Policy of the Russian Federation in the field of naval activities for the period up to 2030"
https://www.garant.ru/products/ipo/prime/doc/71625734/
Accordingly, the tasks and goals of the Russian Navy are determined by the President of the Russian Federation, i.e. neither you nor me ...
After analyzing the current law of the Russian Federation, I believe that this project corresponds to the tasks and goals assigned to the Russian Navy ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lara Croft

Troll? In vain. It seems that in his commentary he specially highlighted in black what refers to the Navy ...

No. I'm just trying to convey that in the configuration and configuration ordered by the Navy, the project 22160 can only carry out the tasks of the security guard.

The assigned tasks of the Navy ship ordered by the Navy, project 22160, can only be performed on paper - because it does not have weapons and avionics for their implementation. Suffice it to recall that outside the 5 km radius, project 22160 can only operate with a single 76-mm cannon. And the enemy's submarine can detect if only this submarine decides to swim right under the patrolman.

[Sergey39]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

I know of course.

If you know what you won't advise.? I was probably waiting there :)

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Sergey39

Once you know

I don’t remember drinking with you on brotherhood. Or at least was familiar with you. So let's go without familiarity.

[alexmach]

And again, back to the question "why is he so needed?"

[Rakovor]

What base? For which boats? What are you talking about?

[art266]

For landing assault boats of project 02800, for example (in the photo in the foreground).

[petrol cutter]

"No, but it can become a base for speedboats, on which you can pinch some Somalis. And plus - it can be used not only as a patrolman."
What the hell are Somalis?! .. What pirates?! ..
By the Black Sea, there is no place to spit, you will get to a Somali pirate ... So that he was empty.
In addition, the speed is under sixty km / h. Do you find it small, at the present time? .. Miracles, however.

[zwlad]

Have pirates already appeared in the Black Sea?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: zwlad

Have pirates already appeared in the Black Sea?

The actions of the Ukrainians to seize our fishing trawlers in the Sea of ​​Azov fall under this definition, and in the Black Sea they were noted in this (seizure of civilian ships).

[ccsr]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Do you think you can drive pirates at full speed of 25 knots?

As far as I understand, a helicopter from this ship will not only catch up with any boat, but in a couple of hours it will be able to attack even those who will be near the entrance to the Bosphorus Strait. So one shouldn't think that helicopters are just on this ship - just so that no one leaves.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tiksi-3

his tasks are different, he's a patrolman !!!

Is there much sense in patrolling him with such a composition of weapons? The naval version of the "grandma with frolovka".

Quote: Tiksi-3

but how are we driving pirates now?

Where did we get pirates in the World Cup? Yes, and this topic has already been sorted out: an anti-piracy ship needs to have a couple (at least) helicopters and a couple of high-speed boats. Yacht 22160 has a very dubious applicability here.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Kalmar

Is there much sense in patrolling him with such a composition of weapons?

lot

Quote: Kalmar

Where did we get pirates in the World Cup?

how smart you are ..... I wonder what is the name of the FLEET, which now provides navigation at the horn of Africa? ... SOMALIAN or Caspian?

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tiksi-3

lot

For example?

Quote: Tiksi-3

how smart you are ..... I wonder what is the name of the FLEET, which now provides navigation at the horn of Africa? ... SOMALIAN or Caspian?

Isn't it a lot of honor for the Somalis to create a specialized ship for them? Or did the Navy have a lot of extra money?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Kalmar

Isn't there much honor to the Somalis

and to drive there from the North and from the Pacific Fleet military units is your super good?

[Kalmar]

Quote: Tiksi-3

and to drive there from the North and from the Pacific Fleet military units is your super good?

Why, to drive from the same Black Sea Fleet, just existing ships, and not special "Somali".

[donavi49]

Well. However, when these ships were ordered, there was already one (1) ship with a helicopter on board on the Black Sea Fleet = cruiser Moscow. Ships without a helicopter have low efficiency and are only capable of escort service. Which, by the way, has now been disbanded there for three years already.

Therefore, the result of fulfilling the order of the Supreme Commander on ensuring safe navigation off the coast of the Horn of Africa:
- Undaunted (BF) - died, still under repair.
- Yaroslav the Wise (BF) - burned a turbine, flew out for 3 years.
- Admiral Chabanenko is a corpse, rotting, that is, the IDB is at the wall.
- Vinogradov - knocked out resources, waiting for the turn of repairs in 21.
- Levchenko - knocked out resources, pull until repair, they are not allowed on a long hike
- Tributs - knocked out resources, got up for 4 years in repair until the age of 16, and then the pirates ended.
- Shaposhnikov - knocked out the resources, got up for a 5-year repair with modernization from UKSK and X35, that's just got out.

In order not to kill BNK of the 1st rank, they ordered cheap patrolmen with a small crew, a helicopter with a large supply of fuel, seaworthiness, and an autonomy of 60 days in terms of reserves. However, they were late. The pirates were suddenly over. And the task of the supreme too.

However - in general, you should always patrol. There in which Algeria to run. India. Iran, etc.

[Kalmar]

Quote: donavi49

ordered cheap patrolmen with a small crew, a helicopter with a large supply of fuels and lubricants, seaworthiness, autonomy of 60 days in terms of reserves. However, they were late. The pirates were suddenly over. And the task of the supreme too.

The pirates have not gone anywhere, it's just that it's no longer fashionable to fight them: the agenda is different now. And we rivet cheap patrolmen for 8-10 billion rubles apiece. Four boats are about the cost of one 20380 in the "luxury" configuration (leather interior, automatic transmission, heated steering wheel), plus there is still time to celebrate. Well, it's not scary, our fleet is rich)

Quote: donavi49

However - in general, you should always patrol. There in which Algeria to run. India. Iran, etc.

And what are you going to patrol in Algeria and Iran? Moreover, by the forces of an unarmed yacht.

[donavi49]

And what are you going to patrol in Algeria and Iran? Moreover, by the forces of an unarmed yacht.

Like what? Indicate presence. Maintain a record of some thread of actions. Yes, it's banal to hang out next to important ships, like those same plotters in neutral waters.

Again, it is important to ensure the presence and the threat of rate hikes. What thread can a Rosoboronexport ship sail to Venezuela like Iranian tankers? But if they are escorted, then the banal hopstop will not give a ride. The task itself is completed. The resource of the BOD and cruisers has been saved.

Again, if you attack this patrolman, he will die quickly and without resistance. However, what will happen next. Moreover, a single BOD or a cruiser from an unexpected position will also die quickly and will not have time to resist too much. .

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Tiksi-3

I wonder what is the name of the FLEET, which now provides shipping at the Horn of Africa? ...

It is called "a group of PMC fighters on board."
And to fight pirates, normal countries use universal ships - carriers of a group of helicopters and landing forces. And not the PSKR with one helicopter and a pair of "zodiacs" (for he can only take the DShL in the aft portport in calm weather).

[Cron]

Quote: Kalmar

Yacht 22160 has a very dubious applicability here.

Most likely, it was just necessary to give orders to the plant in Kerch, which they were able to fulfill.
For training and gaining some experience for the crew, I think it will. Although I am not an expert in this matter

[alexmach]

What other plant in Kerch then? Zelenodoltsy built them, Kerch is their subcontractor. And Zelenodol residents can build a lot. In the end, there are the already mentioned Karakurt - I don't want to build. There is an excellent project of Cheetahs, and they laid 22160 when Ukraine was still supplying engines to Cheetahs.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Piramidon

Where?

read ALL correspondence and you will not need to ask provocative questions

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: Tiksi-3

his tasks are different, he's a patrolman !!!

I'm sure. not only a patrolman, but also for all sorts of things fit! See, listen. drop off, pick up, escort .. etc.

[Kalmar]

Quote: 30 vis

View, listen

What?

Quote: 30 vis

drop off, pick up

This is not a landing ship.

Quote: 30 vis

accompany

The existing ships are not capable of this, are they? As well as on the above "see-listen-drop-off"?

[210ox]

By the way, are we chasing pirates now? Although I will not hide the controversial boat. Although if you visit everything that is promised to him ...

[rjpthju]

And what the hell to a patrol ship (on the Black Sea) has a range of 6000 miles, an autonomy of 60 days and a crew of 80 people? Practically in the absence of serious weapons. That's right - a suitcase without a handle.

[moreman78]

But the crew is already as much as 80 people, apparently - TOURISTS! Really it was impossible to limit ourselves to at least three bodies of these "doves of peace", you can see a very shaggy paw there trying ...

[Cron]

Quote: moreman78

But the crew is already as much as 80 people, apparently - TOURISTS!

28. AND to By the age of 80

[lopvlad]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

It's also slow, so it's hard to drive pirates too!

there, in the stern slip of the ship, the basing of an armored assault assault boat of project 02800 with a speed of 35 knots is provided.

Assault boat of project 02800 is capable of attacking right on the move, from the aft compartment of the carrier ship. The closed troop compartment and the bow of the assault boat are covered with armor protection against bullets, and the wheelhouse windows are covered with bulletproof glass.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: lopvlad

there, in the stern slip of the ship, the basing of an armored assault assault boat of project 02800 with a speed of 35 knots is provided.

Yeah - provided for.
But the designers somehow forgot about the presence of roughness at sea - and designed a gate with a height slightly higher than the height of the DSL from the waterline.

Now let's add the excitement of the "open sea" to this photo.

[lucul]

But the designers somehow forgot about the presence of roughness at sea - and designed a gate with a height slightly higher than the height of the DSL from the waterline.
Now let's add the excitement of the "open sea" to this photo.

I doubt that the pirates, on rubber boats, gathered in the seas to attack merchant ships))))

[Ros 56]

And why chase the barmaley, what is the point, in vain to burn the fuel, for this cannons were invented and machine guns, well, plus rockets for the complete happiness of the barmaley.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ros 56

And why chase the barmaley, what is the point, in vain to burn the fuel, for this cannons were invented and machine guns, well, plus rockets for the complete happiness of the barmaley.

To do this, first of all, they came up with a helicopter.
Having 2-3 helicopters on board, it is possible to organize on-call 24/7 duty with the arrival of a helicopter on duty with a group within an hour and a half within a radius of 300-350 km. And the speed of the carrier is no longer important here - for the basing of helicopters and duty groups + storage of fuel, ammunition and food supplies, an ordinary civilian ship can be converted (Atlantic Conveyor ).

[ccsr]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

unable to defend itself from a submarine, or from an air strike!

And who would dare to attack them from the NATO countries, except for the brave men from Ukraine, of course? And our coastal services, apparently at this time, will not destroy those who dare to do this?

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

It's also slow, so it's hard to drive pirates too!

Where did you see them on the Black Sea? There are only "pirates" there - these are Turkish fishermen who want to get as close as possible to the Kerch Strait during the fishing season in order to catch anchovy. There are definitely no others ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ccsr

And who would dare to attack them from the NATO countries, except for the brave men from Ukraine, of course? And our coastal services, apparently at this time, will not destroy those who dare to do this?

And there is no one to destroy the same submarines.
Ships PLO DMZ in each of our fleets can be counted on the fingers of one hand. PLO aircraft throughout the Navy are on the fingers of two hands. Small anti-submarine OVR have already served for more than 30 years, and the OVR corvette, which was designed to replace them, was killed precisely for the sake of order 22160.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alexey RA

And there is no one to destroy the same submarines.

Here, one author accurately noted:

Well. However when these ships were ordered, the Black Sea Fleet already had one (1) ship with a helicopter on board = cruiser Moscow. Ships without a helicopter have low efficiency and are only capable of escort service. Which, by the way, has now been disbanded there for three years already.

I am not a connoisseur of naval weapons, but the very fact of the presence of a helicopter on such a ship will significantly expand its capabilities even in the anti-aircraft defense system.
But one thing confuses me - who there in the Black Sea can move unnoticed under water? Something I do not believe that our ASW systems will not be able to detect NATO submarines in the Black Sea. Well, not everyone in the navy got drunk, in the end ...

[seregin-s1]

What submarines? Pirate? Who will torpedo it? Patrol and escort ship in the FAR SEA AREA. There were no such ships before, and our civilian ships carrying military cargo were inspected by NATO boats. Therefore, it was necessary to use and consume the resource of the BDK.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

It's also slow, so it's hard to drive pirates too!

[venik]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Another suitcase without a handle

========
Another "sofa expert" .....

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Is there much sense in patrolling him with such a composition of weapons?

lot

More specifically, what is its armament composition and how can it be used with high efficiency? Let's not be unfounded.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

More specific

for PATROLING and providing navigation from PIRATES (not the Navy of other countries) that weaponry, seaworthiness and habitability is quite enough.

[Artyom Karagodin]

Yes, we defended ourselves from pirates, and the fact that the coastal waters were not properly covered from mining or from enemy submarines, then the goblin is with him. So what?

I'm talking about the fact that if such ships need to be built, then only after much more pressing tasks have been solved.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

then only after much more pressing tasks have been solved.

Do they do this at the same time, or do they build submarines, corvettes or frigates? and the speed of their construction today depends not on finances, but on import substitution, changes in projects, the curvature of individual design bureaus and the number of free places on the stocks

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Do they do this at the same time, or do they build submarines, corvettes or frigates? and the speed of their construction today depends not on finances, but on import substitution, changes in projects, the curvature of individual design bureaus and the number of free places on the stocks

So isn't it better to use the slipways, which, as you confirm, are not enough, to take more universal ships? That's what I mean. And one more thing: which of the leading maritime powers has built at least one anti-pirate ship of the same class? For some reason, they make do with the available ships, but we decided to show off.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

So isn't it better to take the slipways, which, as you confirm, are already lacking, with more versatile ships?

better, of course, BUT Zelenodolsk cannot build 20380-85 ... so you shouldn't sow confusion

[Artyom Karagodin]

11661 maybe, but 2380 is not ???? They have the same displacement, and the standard 11661 is even larger. So you are wrong, Dmitry.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

So you are wrong, Dmitry.

you are not right, Zelenodolsk cannot ... yet cannot

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Do they do this at the same time, or do they build any submarines, corvettes or frigates?

Do not do. In 2014, the development of the OVR corvette to replace the Albatrosses was closed. And instead of them, 22160 were ordered. Not simultaneously, but instead.
As a result, the Navy received unarmed patrolmen and remained with 30-35-year-old IPCs with equipment from the late USSR. And the corvettes under construction are no substitute for them.

[ccsr]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

I'm talking about the fact that if such ships need to be built, then only after much more pressing tasks have been solved.

They were built in a limited series, and as far as I understand, for a specific region. And this is primarily due to the fact that large ships from the Black Sea Fleet will clean up, because they have nothing to do in this puddle. The concept has changed - the entire Black Sea can be seen and fired from the Black Sea Fleet's coastal installations, and the Aerospace Forces of the Southern VO will cope with any air enemy in this theater. And in general, as the Crimeans say, in good weather the Turkish coast is visible from the Crimean mountains. Why then even talk about large ships with URO, if you can do with a small fleet. It's time to cut the Black Sea Fleet, but with the transfer of posts to the Federation Council, the country will benefit more.

[Escobar]

Along the way, it will remain with these pelvis mines to sweep, let them go without a crew in the direction of the minefield, perhaps, how many by themselves will blow up

[alexmach]

for PATROLING and providing navigation from PIRATES (not the Navy of other countries) that weaponry, seaworthiness and habitability is quite enough.

There are objections to everything, except perhaps habitability.

[next322]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

We don't have the budget to build highly specialized ships.

The Black Sea Fleet is sorely lacking 20380 corvettes .... could not they have laid at least a couple in Kerch, unloading the SV, instead of this yacht with a cannon

[Artyom Karagodin]

So what am I for? And citizen Tiksi is trying to tell us that these are very useful ships for our fleet. Apparently, he is not aware of what holes are gaping in our PLO, and not only in it.

[next322]

All this is already beginning to resemble an epic with BDK Ivan Gren and Morgunov ... standing forever at the pier on the Northern Fleet

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

Apparently, he is not aware of what holes are gaping in our PLO, and not only in not

I am aware, but the construction of THESE corvettes is in no way connected with the existing holes in the PLO, look who builds these corvettes and who builds PLO 20380 Corvettes .... maybe then you will understand

[Artyom Karagodin]

Quote: Tiksi-3

look who builds these corvettes and who builds PLO 20380 Corvettes

Considering that the Zelenodolsk plant is able to build "Cheetahs", then it would have mastered 20380. Again, these ships would be much more useful.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Artyom Karagodin

20380 would have mastered.

no, it won't. your conclusion is wrong

[Artyom Karagodin]

Look at the standard displacement of the "Cheetah" (11661) and 20380. You will understand that it is you who are wrong. The 11661 will even have a standard displacement.

[ProkletyiPirat]

And where does the displacement here, the MASS-DIMENSIONS are important !!! Zelenodol residents have problems with this, they have a maximum overall height of 15, 18, or 20 meters (they do not have drawbridges with soil deposits there), as a result, they have to transport the ship and the superstructure separately, in the case of 20380 they will have to carry the bulb, the ship and the superstructure separately (although it may fit without altering the bulb, but this needs to be checked in practice) In any case, this will require reworking project 20380.

In any case, my personal opinion: neither 20380, nor 11661, nor 22160, nor 21631 are needed for the Russian Federation, BUT another project is needed that would overlap their tasks.

[Artyom Karagodin]

As for the dimensions, you may be right. I missed this moment in the heat of the argument. And I agree that the listed types of ships should be replaced with a single ship for operations in BMZ. This is cost savings, and a reduction in production time, etc.

[ProkletyiPirat]

no no no no "BMZ"! NO AT ALL !!! you just need to create a specialized class of the vessel "RF-river-sea-ocean" where it will be possible to move along the internal rivers of the Russian Federation, along the NSR-RF and along long-distance oceanic routes (without refueling), wherein: the ship should not fight in shallow water (<5m), this is achieved by fairly simple methods, but I don’t have 3D models with animation (I don’t know how to make them) for a simple, quick, clear and visual explanation of these methods, and if described in words, then after the phrase "modularity" we will have a strong discrepancy in the representation of a specific type and specific TTZ, so I don’t want to raise the holivar.

[Artyom Karagodin]

I mean a ship that covers the near sea zone from submarines and so on. And yes, he must be capable of ocean crossings (and if also along inland waterways - then just chic), in order, if necessary, to act in the coastal strip of potential "partners".

[ProkletyiPirat]

in my opinion, the modern tasks of "BMZ" should be carried out from the shore,
A) first of all from field land bases at the expense of land wheeled launchers (with guided torpedo-missile weapons (MORNING)), radars (including tethered ones) and with coastal underwater infrastructure (cable GAK, including outside the state border),
B) secondarily reusable aircraft-transportable buoys-drones with GAK and their military transport aircraft with VVPZ (which, among other things, can deliver bombs / torpedoes / mines). Ideally, the aircraft should be aircraft-like and with a carrying capacity of 10 + t to provide both BMZ and SMZ, as well as work in the MP \ SSO \ VDV \ FSB \ EMERCOM \ etc.

IF to shift these tasks (BMZ) to ships, it turns out to be complete garbage. I am not against the presence of ships in the BMZ water area, I am against the development, creation and operation of ships for the BMZ tasks. That is, there should be a full-fledged ship, and not these stubs. To understand what I'm talking about: we can throw full-fledged frigates and slightly reduced destroyers with a displacement of about ~ 7500 tons along the internal rivers (it can be more, but there are some nuances), for example, analogues of 22350 with the introduction of restrictions on dimensions and the introduction of modularity. But instead of this, the Russian Navy, to the detriment of them (full-fledged ships) and points A / B, rivets "BMZ ships", in the end, receiving neither one nor the other, but generously pouring money and catching hemorrhoids.

ps in the context of what I wrote above, it is IMPORTANT not to confuse fleets and their ships from different generations, in particular the strategy of naval combat based on the MORNING concept, with previous and / or intermediate concepts (for example, old ships of the third rank of type 1124 \ 1234 \ 1240 \ 122 \ 199 and modern RTOs).

[petrol cutter]

"I mean a ship that covers the near sea zone from submarines and so on."
Can not understand. Why do all our strategists always consider some kind of super ship? Who left alone / alone in the Black Sea and resolved all the questions.
Expansion of the diesel fleet at the Black Sea Fleet. What is it for?..
Their tasks / why / what are they doing there? ..
Shiloh must be drunk. Moreover, with buckets.
Expansion of the airplane fleet. Why would it? ..
Expansion of the air defense fleet. A similar question.
Why do people consider the customer, i.e. MO- round and .....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

And where does the displacement here, the MASS-DIMENSIONS are important !!! Zelenodol residents have problems with this, they have a maximum overall height of 15, 18, or 20 meters (they do not have drawbridges with soil deposits there), as a result, they have to transport the ship and the superstructure separately, in the case of 20380 they will have to carry bulb, ship and superstructure separately

Yes, even the Buyany-M cannot be transported entirely by inland waterways.
Here is the "Grad Sviyazhsk" - the radar station has been dismantled:

Here is "Uglich" - similarly:

[ccsr]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

In any case, my personal opinion: neither 20380, nor 11661, nor 22160, nor 21631 are needed for the Russian Federation, BUT another project is needed that would overlap their tasks.

My personal opinion is that not a single project is born as a wish of any one chief of the Navy, because the decision on the project is made at the level of the Supreme and the Minister of Defense. And envious people will always pour information into their ears, which can present the situation in an unfavorable light, and then the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy may retire early for his mistakes. Therefore, believe me, not only military science, but the entire ordering apparatus will surely be overlaid with so many life-affirming documents that the Supreme Commander will only say - "Comrades for work!"
Not retired cap-times and admirals can talk about what we need now and what we have the funds for, and those who are now leading these projects and know the history of their creation. Often, most do not even know the true purpose of the product, which is laid down during its creation for the future, and therefore it is better to listen to those who will operate these ships and be on duty on them. So they will later tell you whether this ship is needed, or is it a dummy on the basis of their military service.

[Rakovor]

Who are you explaining to? Man does not even have a vague idea of ​​the construction of ships and their combat use.

[Artyom Karagodin]

Well, forgive me for mumbling here against the background of such learned men as you

[Strannik96]

you need to understand what you are talking about - many "leading powers" have such creeps

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Strannik96

you need to understand what you are talking about - many "leading powers" have such creeps

Have. Together with normal ships.
But only from us 22160 were ordered not together, but instead normal ships. And now the fleet has nothing to provide for the ASW, even at the exit from the SSBN bases: the existing IPCs were built and equipped under Mikhail Mechen and have long been outdated - physically and morally.

[xomaNN]

The main plus is the restoration of the competencies of the personnel of the Kerch ship industry, logistics and cooperation in armament with other boxes, etc.
And there is no strike weapons on board - 2 x 4 RK "Caliber" or 2 x 4 anti-ship missiles "Uran" X-35U in container design

[Artyom Karagodin]

So far, these containers are only on paper, and it is not a fact that they will appear in the series.

[xomaNN]

Like, some colleagues at the forum regret the revival of the Kerch shipyard? Or are minus musicians from Ukraine just suffering from the lost Crimea and Kerch?

[seti]

Second. They do not care about each launched ship in Kerch or somewhere else like a Faberge file ..)

[Alexey RA]

Quote: xomaNN

Like, some colleagues at the forum regret the revival of the Kerch shipyard? Or are minus musicians from Ukraine just suffering from the lost Crimea and Kerch?

No. Colleagues on the forum suffer about wasted money and time (6 years) on the construction of "doves of peace". Instead of which the Navy could have normal PLO corvettes, which it now needs like air. Things have come to the point of proposals to modernize the Albatrosses, which have served for 30-35 years.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: xomaNN

And there is no strike weapons on board - 2 x 4 RK "Caliber" or 2 x 4 anti-ship missiles "Uran" X-35U in container design

I missed something, and the Navy adopted and ordered containerized anti-ship missiles?
Pictures from the exhibition does not count - in our picture and the "Death Star" under "Petrovsky" can be buried.

[seregin-s1]

Bravo to Zelenodol residents and Zaliv!

[Escobar]

Something I have not heard about the production of container launchers of anything at all, and container air defense systems, even more so. And on it only the version of the helicopter substation is placed? Anti-submarine can no longer? And the aforementioned air defense system on it seems to be in fact a MANPADS. + Some kind of confusion with the caliber of the art installation somewhere they write 76 mm, somewhere 57 mm.

[donavi49]

SAM - Igla MANPADS.
The confusion with the caliber and the air defense system is that they carried a model with a 57 mm cannon and a Shtil air defense system.

The Ministry of Defense chose the proven 3 dumovka and additional premises instead of the air defense system.

[Escobar]

That is, at the moment he has one cannon, two machine guns and MANPADS ???

[donavi49]

Yeah. Well, also containers with X-35 / Caliber, but that's in theory.

[bk0010]

He has a cool thing in the stern. I wonder why 22350 doesn't have one? You can also drive there not only the Zodiac, but also an unmanned boat with underwater vehicles for mine clearance. We would solve the problem with the lack of minesweepers. And simply, if, according to the situation, the frigate would be at the minefield, there would be chances of passage.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Eskobar

Something I have not heard about the production of container launchers of anything at all, and container air defense systems, even more so.

Container missile system Club-K

".... For stealth corvettes" Daring "of project 20386 and patrol ships of project 22160" Vasily Bykov ", unique container anti-aircraft systems have been developed, which were named" Redut "and" Pantsir-M ". Containers with these air defense systems can be delivered by transport ship or plane to any area of ​​the oceans and there in a matter of hours to install on board, turning the ship into an “anti-aircraft hedgehog.” This is how the navy calls air defense platforms that can cover from attacks by drones, cruise and anti-submarine missiles, as well as aircraft convoys and whole areas of the coast ....... "
https://iz.ru/898384/aleksei-ramm-bogdan-stepovoi/pvo-v-karmane-flot-poluchit-konteinernye-zenitnye-kompleksy

[Escobar]

Once again, at our exhibitions they seem to have a lot, but how much does it come to the series? It's like an Armata tank since 2015, also only at parades and it happens

[Bad_gr]

That's interesting, for background information I get 2 minuses, With what do you disagree, sick? That these are not container launchers? or the fact that the company that released these exhibition copies when ordered is not able to release as many copies as necessary?

[Xenofont]

I don’t understand: do the local commentators have selective vision? Indeed, the article says: "... There is a place for placing various modules (anti-ship missiles, missiles, electronic warfare, etc.), depending on the tasks being performed." Why raise a high? They were clearly laid to replace the concept.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Xenofont

I don’t understand: do the local commentators have selective vision? Indeed, the article says: "... There is a place for placing various modules (anti-ship missiles, missiles, electronic warfare, etc.), depending on the tasks being performed." Why raise a high? They were clearly laid to replace the concept.

It was laid. But in the six years since the decision was made to build 22160 and in the two years of service as the head patrolman of the Navy, he received only a diving container. And I tested the container with GAS.
No others.
And yes - there is nowhere to put the air defense system module for 22160, ordered by the Navy. For the place for it has already been occupied by residential and utility rooms.

[Xenofont]

But you must admit that, if you wish, you can vpendyurize strike weapons if the staff members bother.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Xenofont

But you must admit that, if you wish, you can vpendyurize strike weapons if the staff members bother.

So for this it would not hurt to order these weapons. And train the crews to use it.

[next322]

about the merits and demerits of the project 22160, created sometime in St. Petersburg - deeply on the drum ..... positive only one - the CVD in the Russian Crimea "KERCH-ZALIV" is reborn !!!!! and only this is very happy!

[voronkov]

Well, what am I looking at right in hysterics some ..
Especially from this name.

The new patrol ship was named in honor of the Hero of the Soviet Union, a participant in the defense of Odessa and Sevastopol,

He will fulfill his function and the combat mission, no matter how much he is cursed and spattered with saliva here
Crimea has earned and it terribly angers Bandera in Kiev! They are only able to sell cruisers on scrap metal, etc. and destroy everything .. And the funniest thing is to take inflatable Used boats from the USA, considering them as your fleet Disgracers ugh damn

[Pavel57]

Quote: next322

about the merits and demerits of the project 22160, created sometime in St. Petersburg - deeply on the drum ..... positive only one - the CVD in the Russian Crimea "KERCH-ZALIV" is reborn !!!!! and only this is very happy!

Two positives for one negative. A ship with unclear combat functions.

[Pashhenko Nikolay]

“The ceremony was attended by the First Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy Alexander Vitko, the authorities of the Republic of Crimea, shipbuilders and veterans of the plant.” Here, as it were, the most important process of the ceremony, and not what the Navy acquires.

[good]

Something all the local experts completely forgot about the points of logistics of the Navy outside the coastal waters of Russia, which need patrol support, the border service of the FSB cannot operate there (Protection of the borders of the water area, air defense, internal security of the point is carried out by the forces and means of Russia), and keeping more powerful ships for this, with their obvious shortage, is simply wasteful.
It will be necessary to drive such a boat to Syria, to Sudan and make rotations, meet someone, lead someone somewhere, pick someone up somewhere.
From the Black Sea, this is best done in this region. There will be work for them.

[ProkletyiPirat]

What is the problem to make a full-fledged ship but temporarily / permanently cut its equipment? We get benefits in the form of a fleet reserve and the ability to later write off obsolete equipment to such a ship (after the release of a new one on more "combat" ships). Instead, they decided to make a stub ...

[good]

Well, yes, it is clever to develop a resource by patrolling the water area on a shock ship without shock capabilities and then write it off instead of patrolling on a specialized and shock missions to entrust a full-fledged warship without cuts.
Each has its own job.
And then where and with what power plant and with what means to make these other stubs for even more money? They are built and commissioned as much as they can.

[ProkletyiPirat]

yet you do not understand what I mean,
now how many different ships with different main / additional equipment? instead of them (20380, 11661, 22160, 21631, 22350, etc), you can create one project, but due to the different composition of additional equipment, you can get a different cost price. An additional benefit is that you can transfer production to a permanent, non-discontinuous, mass production, and not a piece as now. To do this, you need to develop a couple of nodes and redesign a dozen more, as a result we get a layout advantage. Well, for an example: it will be necessary to redesign the SJC, now it is installed fixed in the bulb or under the bottom, it needs to be redesigned and made a "bottom-type conforge retractable", due to this we will be able to change the overall draft, as a result we will be able to transfer the vessel along the internal rivers, pass along shallow fairways, and at the same time a full-fledged GAK to search for submarines. With regard to such an implementation option, it will be possible to cut the performance characteristics of the GAK when performing other tasks, whether it is the production of ships without this module, or the installation of obsolete / obsolete / weakened / cut down GAKs on those ships where PLO is a side task (for example, in the notorious patrol).

[good]

These ships will be released in 5 copies for external support bases, more is not needed.