Military Review

"Final decision": Kiev decided on the further fate of the cruiser "Ukraine"

230
"Final decision": Kiev decided on the further fate of the cruiser "Ukraine"

The government of Ukraine has made a final decision on the unfinished cruiser "Ukraine", located at the Nikolaev shipyard. Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said the ship would be sold or scrapped.


In Kiev, they decided to sell the unfinished cruiser. According to Urusky, all weapons will be removed from the ship, after which the "Ukraine" will be put up for auction. In the absence of buyers, the ship will be disposed of. The issue of possible completion and introduction into the Ukrainian Navy is not being considered. Also removed from the agenda the issue of flooding "Ukraine" in connection with a possible environmental disaster.

(...) disputes about the fate of the ship have been going on for decades, and the question of selling it is being passed from government to government. The fact that it cannot be introduced into the Navy at all is understandable

- declared Urusky.

He emphasized that the cruiser takes a place at the Nikolaev shipyard, and huge funds are spent on its maintenance. Therefore, a decision was made on the final fate of the unfinished ship.

The missile cruiser of project 1164 "Ukraine" was laid down on August 29, 1984 at the "Shipyard named after 61 Communards" in Nikolaev, by order of the Navy of the USSR. The cruiser was to become the fourth ship of Project 1164 Atlant, designed to combat enemy aircraft carrier formations. Initially, the cruiser bore the name "Komsomolets", March 23, 1985 was renamed the "Admiral Fleet Foreheads. "

On August 11, 1990, the cruiser was launched. On October 1, 1993, at 75% readiness, it was withdrawn from the Russian Navy and transferred to the ownership of Ukraine. On December 17, 1993 the cruiser was named "Ukraine". In 1994, a crew was formed for the ship, but in 1996 its completion was suspended due to lack of funding.

In 2010, Ukraine planned to sell the Russian-built 95% cruiser, but Moscow refused to buy it and finish it, since its completion required a serious modernization of the Nicholas CVD capacities, and the delivery of the cruiser to Severodvinsk was fraught with the risk of losing the ship and was considered inappropriate.
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  1. cniza
    cniza 28 January 2021 12: 49
    +18
    Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said the ship would be sold or scrapped.


    Who will buy it, and you need to dispose of money and not a little ...
    1. nsm1
      nsm1 28 January 2021 12: 53
      +17
      Maybe scrap metal dealers will buy it as it is.
      1. VORON538
        VORON538 28 January 2021 13: 04
        +9
        If only with part of the territory of the square in addition (as a gift), of course, at the price of scrap metal.
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 28 January 2021 13: 06
          +51
          the ship (Ukraine) will be sold or scrapped

          It is symbolic!
          1. Nasrat
            Nasrat 28 January 2021 13: 12
            +19
            Quote: neri73-r
            the ship (Ukraine) will be sold or scrapped

            It is symbolic!

            The fact that the ship was called Ukraine is already nonsense ...

            Initially, the cruiser was named "Komsomolets"


            And ships with the names "Komsomolets" were clearly not in luck ...
            1. venik
              venik 28 January 2021 15: 03
              +4
              Quote: Nasr
              Initially, the cruiser was named "Komsomolets"
              And ships with the names "Komsomolets" were clearly not in luck ...

              ========
              Well, the truth is, after launching it was renamed "Admiral Lobov" .....
            2. orionvitt
              orionvitt 28 January 2021 17: 31
              +16
              Quote: Nasr
              The fact that the ship was called Ukraine is already nonsense ...

              Just fine. The words that Ukraine will either be sold at a reasonable price or utilized are fully consistent with modern realities. I would even say that they have not only a symbolic meaning, but have quite a sacred meaning. laughing
              1. Nyrobsky
                Nyrobsky 28 January 2021 22: 26
                +22
                Quote: orionvitt
                Just fine. The words that Ukraine will either be sold at a reasonable price or utilized are fully consistent with modern realities. I would even say that they have not only a symbolic meaning, but have quite a sacred meaning.

                There is some truth in this yes
                1. Pardus22
                  Pardus22 30 January 2021 04: 20
                  +2
                  To the point! There was no country and did not take place. Now only collapse. In what form?
            3. Kazarinovsergen
              Kazarinovsergen 28 January 2021 21: 53
              +4
              Where does this infa come from? The cruiser Komsomolets pr. 68 served quite successfully at the Baltic Fleet until it was decommissioned in 1987.
          2. antivirus
            antivirus 28 January 2021 13: 20
            +6
            they "....... will shake off his ashes from..leg .."
            it's easier to join a fraternal euro family ..

            or get in?
          3. aleks neym_2
            aleks neym_2 28 January 2021 13: 59
            +13
            I agree 100%! Analog: a ship is a part of the state. Following the cruiser under the loud name "UKRAINE", the state with the same name, but with a small letter, will go for recycling ... it's a shame to tears ...
            1. bistrov.
              bistrov. 28 January 2021 14: 26
              +6
              Quote: aleks neym_2
              . hurt to tears.

              And, here I am, on the contrary, even pleased and rubbing my hands, figs our neighbors are traitors ...
              1. aleks neym_2
                aleks neym_2 28 January 2021 14: 52
                -19%
                On whose grief to warm your hands and be content? Strange position.
                1. bistrov.
                  bistrov. 28 January 2021 15: 01
                  +23
                  Quote: aleks neym_2
                  Warm your hands on someone's grief

                  What grief do they have? Lack of intelligence and overestimated conceit? So these are their problems ... In 1991, when, in fact, they were the ones who destroyed the USSR, taking at the same time almost half of the European Russia that DOES NOT belong to them, and plunging Russia into decades of devastation, they clinked glasses and shouted "bemo" .. Therefore, my position is not "strange", but quite LEGAL ...
                  1. aleks neym_2
                    aleks neym_2 28 January 2021 16: 41
                    +1
                    Is there ruin in Russia because of Ukraine? Maybe the "destroyers" are common? .. and the root of evil is the same? Only where there is more, where less.
                    1. bistrov.
                      bistrov. 28 January 2021 17: 13
                      +9
                      Quote: aleks neym_2
                      Maybe "destroyers" are common? ..

                      Of course, all this did not happen without foreign training and guidance, but I was an eyewitness to those events and I remember conversations among some people like, "I wish Ukraine lived if it were disconnected from Russia" (mind you, not to leave the USSR, but to disconnect from Of course, that "referendum" was falsified, unambiguously, 12 million Russians could not vote for disconnection from themselves, this is ABSURD! not only with the complete connivance, but also the organizing role of the authorities. But a lot of people actually voted to disconnect. Who is guilty?
                    2. Pensive Lawyer
                      Pensive Lawyer 31 January 2021 01: 34
                      0
                      Well, sir, you bent it. There is a decline in life in Russia. But devastation? I do not observe such.
                  2. NEOZ
                    NEOZ 28 January 2021 16: 42
                    -9
                    Quote: bistrov.
                    What grief do they have? Lack of intelligence and overestimated conceit? So these are their problems ... In 1991, when, in fact, it was they who destroyed the USSR, seizing at the same time almost half of European Russia, NOT OWNING THEM, and plunging Russia into decades of devastation, they clinked glasses and shouted "bemo" ..

                    What were the Russians doing at that time?
                    1. bistrov.
                      bistrov. 28 January 2021 17: 30
                      +5
                      Quote: NEOZ
                      What were the Russians doing at that time?

                      It is your happiness that in the leadership of Russia, at that time, there was no person with a strong will, but time all the same begins to put everything in its place.
                      1. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 28 January 2021 18: 21
                        +3
                        Quote: bistrov.
                        It is your happiness that in the leadership of Russia, at that time, there was no person with a strong will, but time all the same begins to put everything in its place.

                        our happiness that Borya put Vova !!!!!
                        because if not for Vova, we would have worse than in Ukraine now !!!!
                        ps
                        therefore, there is no need to raise the political literacy of Russians and belittle the literacy of Ukrainians!
                        We are exactly the same! only, we were lucky .... and still lucky ... but will we be so lucky in the future?
                      2. bistrov.
                        bistrov. 29 January 2021 08: 12
                        -4
                        Quote: NEOZ
                        what did Borya put Vova!

                        You must be consistent and polite, after all, this is the president of Russia, he was chosen and elected by the Russian people, but no one put it, and you will also call your neighbor "Vova" if, of course, he allows you to do so.
                        As for the neighboring "power", the voters there over and over again step on the same rake, having made the first mistake in 1991, after which the majority of the population completely lost their sanity and sense of reality, each of their authorities after the next elections becomes more and more nationalistic. thieving and corrupt ...
                        Let's even take the last elections: after all, you could have voted for Boyko, the only sane candidate who could have turned the policy of "Ukraine" into a more normal channel, but they did not choose and are now reaping the benefits ..
                      3. Mantykora
                        Mantykora 29 January 2021 10: 20
                        +2
                        In Ukraine, in principle, there is no sane candidate candidate in the current cadre of "politicians". Boyko - the same only mimicry for opposition. In reality, what did he do - pickets, rallies? No shit! So don't talk nonsense - the real opposition in Ukraine has been destroyed, the country is occupied. For ease of understanding - imagine the opposition to Hitler in the Third Reich.
                      4. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 29 January 2021 11: 25
                        +3
                        Quote: bistrov.
                        it was chosen and is chosen by the Russian people, but no one put

                        He became the first person of the state on December 31, 1999, when, by decision of Russian President Boris Yeltsin, he was appointed Acting President of the Russian Federation - in connection with the resignation of the first President of Russia.
                      5. NEOZ
                        NEOZ 29 January 2021 11: 30
                        +2
                        Quote: bistrov.
                        Let's even take the last elections: you could have voted for Boyko

                        smartly flunked Shariy (Ukrainian bulk), catching smartly in collusion with Poroshenko, thereby redirecting votes to Zelensky smartly.
                      6. Whiteidol
                        Whiteidol 29 January 2021 18: 50
                        0
                        The people of Ukraine voted for Beloborodko, not for Zelya. And I really hoped that it would be the same as in the movies.
                      7. Nemchinov Vl
                        Nemchinov Vl 30 January 2021 02: 26
                        0
                        Quote: bistrov.
                        Let's even take the last elections: you could have voted for Boyko,
                        belay crying ... ? !! no, ... well, this is only after you vote for Chubais directly for president (!)..., both -
                        Quote: bistrov.
                        ... the only sane candidate who could turn ...
                        winked wink
                    2. Jager
                      Jager 29 January 2021 15: 45
                      -2
                      Something for 20 years of his "reign" the real sector of the economy finally bent down and the whole point was reduced to laying pipes for everyone. The war in Syria is a consequence of the division of the oil market. The "return" of the Crimea is pure impromptu. In fact, they completely ruined relations with Ukraine and themselves allowed its collapse and the war on the border with the Rostov region. I will not say anything about "successes" in the social sphere of the sun. They wiped themselves off with the Constitution, pushed them through the quiet under the screen of a covid.
                    3. NEOZ
                      NEOZ 29 January 2021 18: 26
                      0
                      Quote: Jager
                      Something for 20 years of his "reign" the real sector of the economy finally bent down and the whole point was reduced to laying pipes for everyone.

                      prove with facts?
            2. dauria
              dauria 28 January 2021 16: 48
              +17
              ... In 1991, when, in fact, it was they who destroyed the USSR


              What ... laughing And not Borya, who went to the collapse of the USSR to take power away from Gorbachev? If there is no USSR, then the president of the USSR Gorbachev is not needed. Borya becomes a tsar with an automaton. Well, think about it, the Belarusian and Ukrainian princelings had to give up a piece. And weren't Muscovites jumping under the tanks behind Borya to the bewildered scratching and assenting of everyone else? Quickly, your brains were cleared of the real story.
            3. Nemchinov Vl
              Nemchinov Vl 30 January 2021 02: 19
              +3
              Quote: bistrov.
              ... Lack of intelligence and overestimated conceit? ...
              - from someone who has forgotten that Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, were the foundation of an entire empire (THE USSR)... !!! After the separation, the inhabitants of NONE of the divided countries (for the most part), did not become richer or happier (!!)... They thrash each other (like one who kicks his own reflection in a mirror), not noticing that there are less and less of them ... (!), and if there is a reason for joythen already not at THEM, and those who organized their fight, watching them from the sidelines, like poor and degrading animals .... !!!
          4. Uncle Vanya Susanin
            Uncle Vanya Susanin 29 January 2021 05: 33
            +2
            Why immediately grief? anti-Russian project "Ukraine" is crashing !!! the fall of the 3rd Reich, you too were upset ????
        2. Kushka
          Kushka 28 January 2021 14: 54
          -21%
          we need neighbors -traitors
          And Ukraine according to the obscene Brest Peace of 1914
          were not traitors betrayed / sold to the Germans?
          And Ukraine under the obscene Riga Treaty of 1921
          Are not traitors re-sold / sold to the Poles?
          (moreover, they paid extra 30 million rubles in gold and wrote off
          all debts to Poland).
          And Ukraine was betrayed / sold to NATO in Belovezhskaya Pushcha in 1991
          not traitors?
          Maybe Ukraine will be enough to betray / sell?
          Maybe our neighbors are traitors, too?
          1. bistrov.
            bistrov. 28 January 2021 15: 28
            +24
            Quote: Kushka
            And Ukraine according to the obscene Brest Peace of 1914

            I didn’t understand, however, and you didn’t fight, but began vying with each other to create your own “zunras”, “unry” and other “gulyaypols”, growing “oseledtsi”, clinging the slings to the hats and pulling on trousers, the width of the Black Sea robbing, at the same time, right and left, Jews, who killed in Kiev, Proskurov and other towns in the thousands?
            And why didn't you defend your land in the summer of 1941, but instead almost two million of "Sumerian nationalities" or dodged the draft, scattering through the surrounding forests, or deserted from the spacecraft, hiding under the "speednicks" in your halves? And then they went to the auxiliary police, Schutzmannschaft battalions, etc., more than 89 thousand voluntarily signed up for the SS Galicia division (for 6 payroll) or plowed for a German for three years, supplying him with meat, bread, hemp, etc. etc. They shot in the backs of the soldiers who came to liberate you ... Under the USSR, the authorities kept silent about this, but in vain ...
            And in 1991, who voted to secede from the USSR? You and as much as 80%. "Storage" wanted ... well, roll, not without reason, all of you are now running away to the West, and we will take our lands ...
            1. Kushka
              Kushka 28 January 2021 17: 04
              -9
              Unlike your Vlasovites, who were Soviet subjects,
              became traitors, betrayed the Motherland and shot, as you write in yours,
              86 thousand indicated by you, before 01.09.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX were not citizens of Ukraine, but
              Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Austria and did what it took into their heads.
              On their own land, as they thought, I will notice. Do you have any complaints against them?
              Bender was a Polish citizen, Polish terrorist bomber, Polish
              convict. He gave the USSR oath? Did he ask to be set free?
              Present your claims to Vlasov, Krasnovites and "citizens" of Lokotskaya
              republics. I can advise you to google photos of residents of the Smolensk region,
              when they met the troops of the Wehrmacht, impressive.
              There are nationalists in any country - IRA, Basques, Quebec, Texas
              We also have them in Ukraine. But (for a minute) - Tyagniboks, Farions,
              Lyashki and their adherents have a maximum of -7-9%! Today they are GENERAL
              have nothing (not represented in parliament). Do you think that
              all 40 million Nazis in Ukraine? Well, fig, as you say, I
              such a neighbor? Consider further that the Earth is flat.
              and we will take our lands ..
              Take it, just first decide right away - to whom you will sell
              this time (like three times in the last 100 years)
              You always, as soon as the rooster bites, trade in Ukraine,
              if they don't take it, then with an additional payment. And they started long ago:
              In 1654 Bogdan brought Ukraine to Tsar Alexei on a silver platter,
              fleeing from the Poles, and Alexei gave it to the Poles 6 years later.
              "Well, do you need a neighbor like that?" (FROM)
              1. cat Rusich
                cat Rusich 28 January 2021 20: 50
                +6
                Quote: Kushka

                86 thousand indicated by you, before 01.09.1939/XNUMX/XNUMX were not citizens of Ukraine, but
                Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Austria and did what it took into their heads.
                On their own land, as they thought, I will notice. Do you have any complaints against them?
                Bender was a Polish citizen, Polish terrorist bomber, Polish
                convict. He gave the USSR oath? Did he ask to be set free?

                "Well, do you need a neighbor like that?" (FROM)
                So it would be necessary to return Galicia to Poland in 1991. The remaining Ukrainian SSR and BSSR should be abolished and returned to the RSFSR in some regions.
                1. Kushka
                  Kushka 28 January 2021 22: 19
                  -10%
                  So it would be necessary to return Galicia to Poland in 1991

                  Yeah, so it comes slowly!
                  So I say, when France and England got sick,
                  they quickly get themselves five glasses of potassium permanganate
                  pounded and belched all kinds of Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco.
                  They immediately felt better and got out. And the USSR, like that
                  Ukrainian, bitten and bit everything - Poland, Hungary,
                  Czechoslovakia, Cuba suffered, Nicaragua, plus Afghanistan,
                  and then alphabetically. I was completely overeating and fell into a coma.
                  Well, where is now Galicia, Poland, Hungary (and further along
                  alphabet) The answer is NATO! (Galicia - to put it mildly - base
                  NATO navy in Mariupol, the city of my grandfather, cavalier
                  Georgy ha fights near Warsaw in WWI and his father who came to
                  Prague in 1945). Conclusion - no need to gobble!
                2. cat Rusich
                  cat Rusich 28 January 2021 23: 18
                  +4
                  Quote: Kushka
                  and vomited all kinds of Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco.!
                  Recall ...
                  War in Indochina December 19, 1946 - August 1, 1954 War in Algeria November 1, 1954 - September 9, 1962 Insurrection Mau Mau in Kenya 1952-1956 ... soldier
                3. Kushka
                  Kushka 28 January 2021 23: 34
                  -10%
                  Oh, to be honest, I hated history since 8th grade and
                  precisely because of the numbers (you have more numbers in your post than letters!)
                  Well, why would I like the date of the beginning and end of the 30-year war?
                  Do I need to know the reasons for its occurrence? effects?
                  I agree!. No, you can not understand a fig, but if
                  fell asleep in numbers - 5 points, excellent student!
                  I mean that some were timely concerned and
                  "optimized" ourselves (omitting details like what September,
                  what year and how many times) And the USSR gorged itself and gave an oak
                  (again omitting the details, what and how much ate on what day)
                4. cat Rusich
                  cat Rusich 28 January 2021 23: 37
                  +4
                  Quote: Kushka
                  And the USSR got overeat and gave oak
                  (again omitting the details, what and how much ate on what day)
                  The main not much to eat...
                  The main DIGEST yes
                5. Kushka
                  Kushka 28 January 2021 23: 50
                  -7
                  ABOUT! Very accurate! Six balls! (naval).
                  Studio Prize (anecdote):
                  The traffic policeman stops the BMW X6.
                  A bum is driving!
                  -Documents!
                  Full order!
                  -Where did you get it?
                  -Yes, you won't believe it, it doesn't matter.
                  -Talk to me! So what?
                  - My g @ vno is curative, rubbed into my bald spot, my hair grows back.
                  -What are you doing here ...
                  - Well, I told you, you won't believe it.
                  -So, come on, follow me quickly to the Kuvetik.
                  Two new Russians in the backseat - hear bro
                  if he puts a bunch on this bald head, I will also
                  buy an apartment!
                6. cat Rusich
                  cat Rusich 29 January 2021 00: 02
                  +6
                  Mercedes crashes into the tractor Belarus ... New Russian jumps out of the Mercedes and to the tractor cab. A tractor driver emerges from the tractor cab, twice the size of a Mercedes driver. The tractor driver asks: "What do you want?" - Novorus replies: "Wrench 19 ...". The tractor driver replied: "Sorry ... NO - I turn my hands away until the 42nd ..."
                  key for 42
                  Wrench 42 yes
                7. Kushka
                  Kushka 29 January 2021 00: 12
                  -3
                  Thank you! I’m bainki.
          2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
            Uncle Vanya Susanin 29 January 2021 05: 38
            +6
            Oh, to be honest, I hated history since 8th grade ...

            Judging by what you write, it is noticeable wink
          3. Kushka
            Kushka 29 January 2021 13: 12
            -4
            I heard that some of the US cosmonauts, from
            those who were on the moon, to the question of schoolchildren,
            what sports did he do to
            become an astronaut, answered: none - I think
            that God gave everyone a certain amount
            heartbeats and waste them on this nonsense I don't
            going to.
            So this is history, this is the kind of science that is not science
            completely, and waste their opportunities (and each
            they are limited) I did not consider
            necessary. I needed to become a professional in
            my business and I became it. And to be a specialist of the "wide"
            profile "is not mine.
            There are generally wonderful examples - Tsiolkovsky,
            Gorky, Plevitskaya, who became famous in
            the whole world is professionals in their field, focusing
            only on it.
          4. Uncle Vanya Susanin
            Uncle Vanya Susanin 30 January 2021 17: 47
            +1
            So this is history, this is the kind of science that is not science
            at all,


            The school subject and historical science should not be confused.
            You are a professional in your field, and this is great, but then, perhaps, you should not write ridiculous nonsense about what you do not understand at all, especially with such a clever look ???
          5. Kushka
            Kushka 30 January 2021 19: 01
            0
            "History is not a science in the sense that
            embedded in the English word "science".

            Ooo, how strict you are, just like my history teacher
            at school. Our class, as they say, "got" in this
            meaning - the school director himself taught us history,
            a wonderful person, a front-line soldier. When my
            firstborn, schools were full, I came to him,
            he said - I take the children of my students! - and took the 42nd
            in class !, And after 4 years he took his second son. The third
            the pupil already took it (she was a pioneer
            counselor) - the best director of the ray school in the city! I
            visited him to the end, eternal memory to the front-line soldier,
            Teacher with a capital letter! God, how he suffered with me,
            still ashamed - before the history lesson I'm from the 3rd floor
            throwing my briefcase into the backyard of the school on coal.
            And then, as if nothing had happened, at recess, he left through
            the main entrance to the courtyard, walked around the school from the back, and too
            leaned over to the briefcase, and from above the voice - Anatoly, well
            come to my office .....
            Don't judge me harshly, enough of my shame before
            Nikolai Ivanovich. Yes, I'm not being clever, where did you get it.
            I just wrote that Ukraine was annexed many times,
            so many times and "disconnected" (to put it mildly) and this is me
            worries - I want to know where my children and grandchildren will live.
            And as for history, I read it somehow, it seems in Bushkov,
            that history is not a science, just like the doctrine of the origin of species
            and my sinful soul grabbed onto it - EXCUSES
            looking for! She doesn't want to admit her sin before
            Teacher. He tried with all his heart, with all his heart!
            So he will be my judge, but not you.
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 29 January 2021 10: 21
    +4
    Quote: Kushka
    You think
    all 40 million Nazis in Ukraine?

    No one thinks so, many are simply drugged by nationalist propaganda, but the Ukrainian government is not only under the control of international globalists, but also finances, uses Ukronazis to fight people's resistance to its policy, adopts anti-constitutional laws that limit the legal rights of certain groups of the population , rewrites history, where he declares the collaborators and henchmen of Hitler's Nazism, which is declared a criminal Nuremberg Tribunal, as "heroes", Russia during the Soviet era is called the occupier of "Ukraine", etc. In particular, Bandera erects monuments, names streets after him, they tried to confer on him the title of "Hero of Ukraine" ...
    Nationalists, of course, are everywhere, but in Russia, unlike "Ukraine", they do not feel themselves masters, they do not kill people with impunity, do not beat them up, do not smash offices, shops, private apartments, do not send threats, do not march with torches in Moscow with portraits of Vlasov, law enforcement agencies, if this happened, would have severely suppressed such actions, unlike "Ukraine", where the police do not suppress, but condones and even protects them ..
    As for 1654, let's remember how much of that "Ukraine" was: part of the modern Cherkassk, Poltava and Vinnitsa regions .., even Russian Kiev with the "towns" of Russia had to be bought from the Poles in 1667 for 146 thousand silver efimks ... Where did the gigantic territories of modern "Ukraine" come from: Slobozhanshchina, Donbass, Kherson, Nikolaev and Odessa steppes, Bukovina and Transcarpathia, Galicia, Podolia, Polesie? I'm not talking about Crimea already ... Yes, everything is densely populated, with comfortable cities, factories, factories, developed agriculture, with literate educated people ..? Really "Bogdan" "presented on a silver platter"? But why, keep your pocket wider, now it will pour more ... All this was conquered by the Russian people in the bloody wars with Poland, Sweden, the Ottoman Empire, in the Patriotic War of 1812, the bloody imperialist war of 1914, the most brutal of the wars of the Great Patriotic War ...
    And the Ukrainian rulers and hetmans only put sticks in their wheels, went along with the Poles and the Crimean Khan "to Moscow", plundered their population, but surrendered to the Swedes, like Mazepa (by the way, also revered now as a "liberator" of "Ukraine"), yes they sold cities and lands, like Petliura and Vynnychenko, while cutting out the population of other nationalities by the thousands.
    It was with Russian funds that the city was built on these territories, factories, factories, shipyards were created, the highly qualified population of Russian nationality was resettled (where did 1991 million Russians turn out to be in "Ukraine" in 15) engineers, technicians, scientists, whole factories were transported, etc. ...
    Maybe after 1991 at the so-called. The conscience of the "Ukrainian people" leaped up and they decided to return the donated lands, leaving only those that they had in 1654, or at least thanked the Russian and other peoples of the USSR, created comfortable conditions for them to live in these territories?
    Well, yes, the wrong ones were attacked, instead they immediately began a violent Ukrainization, already under Kuchma (only two years after the secession) talks began about joining NATO, and under Yushchenko they even applied to join there, Russia was declared an occupier, and talk about the seizure of Ukrainian lands by Russia, began to rewrite history, prohibit the Russian language, finally, in 2014, they carried out an anti-constitutional coup, unleashed a civil war against the dissent, brought our enemies to the Russian lands - an aggressive NATO bloc, what kind of INBETRESS AND INTRANCY have they come to?
    It's time to finally put this EDGE!
  • Jager
    Jager 29 January 2021 15: 55
    +1
    Curious is your love for Bandera. When necessary - he is a "Pole, terrorist, bomber." And how to ride on the Maidan under his flag - so he is a "hero of Ukraine".
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 29 January 2021 17: 38
      +1
      I don’t know what flag he had there.
      (I will not comment on the first sentence of your post -
      deliberately provocative) Bender all
      spent the war, first in the Polish, and then in
      German prison, and when they released him
      (for the second time) at the end of the war, then he found that
      there was nothing left of his OUNb.
      There were a lot of them there without it - OUNm, OUNz,
      UPA, UNA-UNSO. and none of them celebrated it,
      and the "Melnikovites" also had armed clashes with the OUNb.
      In short, like spiders in a jar. Bender - in many ways
      bloated soap bubble There and without it
      enough odious figures, more "colorful".
      Therefore, "Bender", "Bendera", "Bendera" -
      this is so general, "reflex" and quite understandable
      Russian reaction, a kind of simulacrum, very painful,
      (it's not for nothing that the whole anti-Ukrainian
      rhetoric). And to the same extent, in spite of Russia, artificially
      bloated Ukrainian simulacrum. And on both sides
      this is a highly simplified approach to the relationship problem
      both peoples. Deliberately simplistic - it's easier to fool
      heads one in Russia, another in Ukraine. First, few
      thinking they transfer this approach to all 40 million Ukrainians,
      the latter provoke their faint-hearted to appropriation
      heroes, names of streets, avenues, etc.
      As a result, all these efforts of both sides lead to disaster
      all this strongly resembles the development of events before the Finnish
      war - by any suitable and unsuitable actions to play off
      these peoples among themselves in a bloody war to please the overseas uncle.
      To those who pedal the theme of Benderism, in both countries,
      (some stigmatize, almost newborns, others portraits
      cling at all angles) it is worth listening - overseas
      they are applauded - they finished the USSR, we will finish it, and that from him
      left.
      I think you and I are smart people, let's not be in this
      participate. I at least refuse. Your choice
      After you.
  • iskanderzp
    iskanderzp 29 January 2021 01: 38
    0
    Oh how! Dear Bystrov, before you put a stigma on an entire nation, just look at the percentage of Ukrainians among the Heroes of the Soviet Union who received this title during the Great Patriotic War ...
    1. bistrov.
      bistrov. 29 January 2021 10: 56
      +1
      Quote: iskanderzp
      percentage of Ukrainians among the Heroes of the Soviet Union

      You do not cling to those "Ukrainians", especially since they are all dead, they are our brothers, and you betrayed them, banned the symbols under which they fought, you are breaking their monuments, you are traitors and mankurt.
      1. iskanderzp
        iskanderzp 29 January 2021 13: 21
        -1
        Well. I see that polemics are useless in this case. Common sense, alas, has been replaced by propaganda clichés. Reading posts like yours, I involuntarily wonder: to whose mill are such statements pouring water?
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 28 January 2021 16: 32
    +15
    The raunchy Brest Peace Treaty 10 days before Soviet Russia was signed with Germany by UNR Minister of War Simon Vasilyevich Petliura.
    In 1919-1921, the UPR army fought TOGETHER with the Polish army against the Bolsheviks.
    In 1991, in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, one of the signatures about the collapse of the USSR was the signature of the First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, the future first President of non-foreign Ukraine Leonid Makarovich Kravchuk.
    So who betrayed Ukraine?
    On the contrary, in 1939 the USSR returned to Ukraine the Western Ukraine-Lvov, Volyn, Chernivtsi, Ternopil, Rivne regions, and in 1946 the Transcarpathian region.
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 28 January 2021 17: 15
      -20%
      I have a daughter and three sons, four grandchildren - seven boys!
      I don't give a damn about all the excuses, I don't give a damn about Alexei,
      Trotsky, Lenin, Petliura, Kravchuk and EBN! I know one thing -
      Russia (and the listed muzzles (faces - I don't write) are well-fed,
      raised and raised to their high positions by Russia
      (if Stolypin was unnecessary, then he was "gone") ALWAYS
      when she needed it, she "leaked" Ukraine, and paid extra.
      And here again "two days and we will be in Kiev" - who this time
      will you sell Ukraine?
      1. boris epstein
        boris epstein 28 January 2021 17: 30
        +14
        So you yourself sold Ukraine in 30 years. There is nothing to sell. Is that round timber. At the moment, Ukraine's debts to the IMF, the United States, China, the Russian Federation and other countries amount to $ 90 billion, all of which have been accumulated over 30 years of non-debt. The law on the sale of arable land has been passed. All the debts of the USSR were paid by the Russian Federation. And the debt of the USSR included the debts of all other union republics, including Ukraine.
        "And here again," two days and we will be in Kiev. "If we wanted to, we would have already been. In 2014, the Russian State Duma gave the Russian President Vladimir Putin the right to use the army against Ukraine. But he did not. Ukraine has at least some kind of army, in 2014 there was none at all.
        1. boris epstein
          boris epstein 28 January 2021 17: 39
          +12
          Try and honestly answer the questions: Who sold the warehouses of the NZ USSR near Lviv through the Greek firm Vardayans in 1992? Who invited the US Ambassador to Ukraine to graduate officers of the Ukrainian Intelligence Academy in 2012? After all, the face of EACH of them is the strictest state secret! Who sold the Black Sea Shipping Company in 1992? There are dozens of questions on this topic. When answering my questions, keep in mind that I know all this.
        2. Kushka
          Kushka 28 January 2021 18: 25
          -8
          When answering my questions, keep in mind that I know all this.[i] [/ i]
          I can only envy you.
          My four children and four grandchildren occupy everything
          free space in my head.
          Why should I do this ChMP surrendered when today hundreds of kilometers.
          state borders in the western regions of Ukraine, it turns out already
          have the status of private gardens!
        3. bayard
          bayard 29 January 2021 09: 02
          +4
          Quote: Kushka
          today hundreds of kilometers.
          state borders in the western regions of Ukraine, it turns out already
          have the status of private gardens!

          This is the path of integration into Europe through ... the anus - through integration with Poland, Hungary and even Romania.
          To become an appendage of appendages is a great honor for Ukraine that sold everything.
      2. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 30 January 2021 03: 00
        0
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        Who sold ...
        ... and RUSAL ... who ?! the same enterprise, built / created by residents (citizens of the USSR), producing strategic raw materials ...?! who sold (well, you can even name it - gave up the decisive priority right in the distribution of financial profit ... lol , under the action of sanctions .... blah blah ... to get out of the crisis .... etc. winked ), in favor of a supervisory board of 6 or even seven foreigners, instead of Russians ... belay ? !! yes ... Well, why are you, -
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        Who sold

        Quote: Boris Epstein
        in Ukraine

        Quote: Boris Epstein
        Black Sea Shipping Company
        ....? !! No. not worth it right No. ... there and you have enough such examples ...
        Simple while sometrying to embroil you and me, they just sellbuilt by our grandfathers (!). recourse should you and I get lost ?! request No.
      3. boris epstein
        boris epstein 30 January 2021 14: 45
        0
        Yes, you all do not understand the main thing. After all, OWN Ukrainian oligarchs sold Ukraine, not Russia! And we, ordinary people, really have nothing to squander. Indeed, both in the civil war and in the Great Patriotic War, Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians fought shoulder to shoulder in the Red Army, with the exception of a small percentage of renegades. Each people needs to deal not with each other, but with their own thieves. It was these thieves who stole the USSR to the national huts, and in order to divert responsibility from themselves, they set us against each other with lies and nationalisms. These thieves are in power. That is why history must be known
      4. Nemchinov Vl
        Nemchinov Vl 31 January 2021 02: 24
        0
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        Yes, you all do not understand the main thing
        maybe ... but trying to figure it out ...
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        After all, they sold Ukraine OWN Ukrainian oligarchs, not Russia!
        and now... just re-read your own phrase, just swap, around the absolutely correct word you highlighted, - own ..... words Ukraine and Russia, and ... you may notice that so (after rearranging the places of these words, - the phrase will remain true ... (? !!)... recourse winked and therefore, -
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        we, ordinary people, really have nothing
        ., - "wonderful toast !!" (from office romance...) belay drinks
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        Each nation needs to deal not with each other, but with their own thieves.
        I agree... yes we have more and more sympathy here, for example, Portnov, in the fight against "gangs of wandering patriots"... Yes slowly (!)... But honestly and within the legal and legal field, and professionally .. yes
        Quote: Boris Epstein
        These thieves are in power.
        repeat good
      5. boris epstein
        boris epstein 31 January 2021 16: 04
        0
        "... and now ... just re-read your own phrase, just swap the places around the words you have selected absolutely correctly - your own ..... the words Ukraine and Russia, and ... perhaps you will notice that (after rearranging the places of these words, the phrase will remain correct ... (? !!). "
        But you don't need to rearrange ANYTHING. First, the conversation was about Ukraine.
        Second, flip through the news for the last 3-4 years. How many billion-ruble thieves are imprisoned in Russia? And with confiscation. Dozens, and officials on the scale of governors. Examples that I immediately remembered are Colonel Zakharchenko and Ulyukaev.
        And how many and who planted in / in Ukraine? NO ONE ! 26 (twenty-six) criminal cases were opened against Poroshenko and all ended in nothing. He stupidly does not appear for interrogations. And Yatsenyuk? During the construction of a pseudo-wall on the border with Russia alone, he earned a billion USD, not hryvnia. Then he privatized water for the farmers of the Nikolaev and Kherson regions and made a second billion, and because of this, the prices of vegetables jumped. And what about the former head of Ukroboronprom? And Akhmetov, who is killing the Ukrainian energy sector and introducing green energy? Because of this, 1 kW / hour for Ukrainians cost 90 ukrokopeks, now 1 UAH 68 kopecks. And Yuri Vitrenko? Kicked out of Naftogaz, became the Minister of Energy. “And they browsed the pike into the river.” And the unsinkable Kobolev? The Verkhovna Rada tried 3 times to remove him from this post. It turned out zilch. Gas was pumped into storage in the summer at a meager price, and now it is sold to the public at 3 times more expensive.
        Go to google maps and look at Rivne, Vinnytsia, Lviv and Transcarpathian regions. There are no forests! For the sake of amber mining, forests in the Rivne region were turned into swamps. And the authorities CANNOT do anything. And what, did Russia do all this too?
      6. boris epstein
        boris epstein 31 January 2021 16: 25
        0
        And for a better understanding, read the article: "Ukrainian MP explained the difference between gas prices under Yanukovych and today"
  • Kushka
    Kushka 28 January 2021 18: 18
    -8
    If they wanted, they would have already been. In 2014, the Russian State Duma gave Russian President Vladimir Putin the right to use the army against Ukraine. But he didn’t. [i] [/ i]
    So hurry it up, and as you write, everyone will sell it in Ukraine
    before, and then even with a large surcharge (as in Riga in 1921) no one
    will sell. And what will he then do with this suitcase without
    pens? After all, before him, every time, the code was attached, every time
    sold.
    I wrote to you about the composition of my family. He himself gave half his life to the Soviet Navy
    (they didn't know that I was a traitor and they put the SBD in contact with the nuclear submarine, otherwise
    and the port boatswain's crew did not take to wave a sledgehammer)
    So I want to know "where" my children and grandchildren will live - in Russia, in Poland,
    in Austria, in Hungary, where?
  • boris epstein
    boris epstein 28 January 2021 18: 25
    +12
    The Russian Federation has no plans to send troops to Ukraine. And where your children and grandchildren live is up to you, Ukrainians, for yourself. Decided to become non-profitable in 1991, Russia did not bother you. Decided in 2014 to associate with the EU and join NATO - Russia did not bother you. But the EU and NATO are not eager to accept you. And now your leaders refused to buy electricity from Belarus and Russia. So who is your doctor?
  • Kushka
    Kushka 28 January 2021 18: 46
    +4
    Thank you for the discussion. And then one of your colleagues
    wrote, they say, what all the Ukrainians are doing here.
    You can take a look at the Ukrainian media (Gordon, Ukrpavda)
    Telegraph style - Crown, Biden, Peskov ...
    And then there is the luxury - large analytical articles on
    any Ukrainian topic - foreign policy, economics.
    History is sweet. How do you: "The Russian uprising under
    the leadership of the Russian commander Bogdan Khmelnitsky
    against the Poles "!
    Where can I find this? And about the prospects of aviation
    industry of Ukraine?
    There are 4-5-6 publications about Ukraine on the "front line" of VO daily!
    And hundreds of comments for each! And this interest does not subside!
    And let's take into account, about VO in Ukraine, no one, by and large
    does not know (I am a sailor came here from flot.com). So who's who
    and what convinces Russians of Russians?
    And you say:
    i] it is up to you, Ukrainians, to decide [/ i][/ i].
    But the EU and NATO are not eager to receive you.

    I can only joke:
    [i] it never happened, whatever it was.
    no matter how it was, but how it will be.
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 29 January 2021 11: 18
    -1
    Quote: Kushka
    I

    Quote: Kushka
    will you sell Ukraine?

    Someone bothers you ..., someone does not give ..., someone "sells" ..., in 1991 you were given a huge, self-sufficient country, which you could not dispose of, organized on it robbery, lawlessness and genocide of the population ..., sell its territory to our enemies ... you have not grown to independence, ..... well, we will take the land from you ... and teach you ...
  • Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 31 January 2021 23: 03
    0
    I know one thing - Russia ... ALWAYS when it needed it, "leaked" Ukraine, and also paid extra.

    How do you know from history, I suppose? So this is NOT science (and on this I completely agree with you). But how can you rely on your personal KNOWLEDGE after that?
    1. Kushka
      Kushka 31 January 2021 23: 46
      0
      In no case can you rely!
      I don't remember who, but one of the greats said:
      a person knows about reality no more than 15%,
      someone else told him everything else, and
      someone (I in my own words).
      There is also a parable - two argued, called the third.
      Together we went to the sage. He listened to the first one and said-
      you're right! Then I listened to the second and said, you are right,
      The third objected - after all, this does not happen - and he is right, and he is.
      To which the sage replied - and you are right!
  • cat Rusich
    cat Rusich 28 January 2021 20: 35
    +6
    Quote: Kushka

    And Ukraine according to the obscene Brest Peace of 1914
    were not traitors betrayed / sold to the Germans?
    History lesson...
    Brest Peace - March 3, 1918
  • Xnumx vis
    Xnumx vis 28 January 2021 19: 30
    +7
    Quote: aleks neym_2
    I agree 100%! Analog: a ship is a part of the state. Following the cruiser under the loud name "UKRAINE", the state with the same name, but with a small letter, will go for recycling ... it's a shame to tears ...

    Delivered you a plus. Then I thought .... Is it worth it to regret this formation - "anti Russia" !? Not worth it! Will fall apart, and to hell with her! More than half will return to Greater Russia .. And Galychina, and even some stubborn Svido people, Greater Russia does not need yet ... But the Russian blood shed for the liberation of these lands is a pity.
  • venik
    venik 28 January 2021 15: 18
    +6
    Quote: neri73-r
    the ship (Ukraine) will be sold or scrapped

    Is symbolic!

    =======
    After the death of the heavy cruiser "Admiral Graf Spee", Hitler ordered to urgently rename its "sister ship" "Deutschland" - into "Lutzow": the death of "Germany" - that would be too symbolic! It didn't help - the Reich after all collapsed!
    PS Now what remains to be expected sale or recycling Ukraine ??? what
    PPS What funny historical analogies are ... (at least - in relation to cruisers) request
    1. lucul
      lucul 28 January 2021 15: 27
      +7
      After the death of the heavy cruiser "Admiral Graf Spee", Hitler ordered to urgently rename its "sister ship" "Deutschland" - "Lutzow": the death of "Germany" - that would be too symbolic!

      Hitler had enough brains to figure it out quickly))) But those who originally named the cruiser Deutschland did not have enough brains.
      Stalin is immediately remembered when he was shown a prototype of a new passenger car (the future GAZ M-20 POBEDA). Stalin asked, what are you going to call this car? He was answered with pride - Homeland !!!! To which Stalin noticed - and how much will you sell your homeland? )))
      This is how the name of the car Victory appeared)))
    2. dmmyak40
      dmmyak40 28 January 2021 15: 45
      +2
      Well, the cruiser "Russia" during the RYAV had a good fate ...
      1. venik
        venik 28 January 2021 19: 38
        +1
        Quote: dmmyak40
        Well, the cruiser "Russia" during the RYAV had a good fate ...

        =========
        Yes, I was about him when I wrote a comment. But alas! This is one of the few pleasant exceptions (in terms of ship names).
        Suffice it to recall that in addition to "Deutschland" (timely renamed "Luttsov" and ingloriously died just a few months before the collapse of Nazi Germany), its fate repeated The most powerful in the history of the Japanese battleship "Yamato"! (for Japanese"Yamato"means practically the same as for us the concept"Russ"!). And also - just a few months before the collapse of the Japanese Empire ....
        Alas!!! Loud names State entities warships better NOT to name! It can be very symptomaticallylike "Captain Vrungel: had a yacht"SoftwareBEDA ", and became - the yacht" BEDA "!!! laughing lol
        Well, this is, of course, exclusively my personal superstitions! winked lol
    3. common man
      common man 28 January 2021 16: 47
      +3
      Quote: venik
      After the death of the heavy cruiser "Admiral Graf Spee", Hitler ordered to urgently rename its "sister ship" "Deutschland" - "Lutzow":

      So that during the disposal of Ukraine (the ship) the image of the state of the same name does not suffer. I propose to urgently rename Ukraine (the state). For example, to Hohland. Or to Banderia.
  • Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 28 January 2021 21: 56
    0
    Quote: neri73-r
    the ship (Ukraine) will be sold or scrapped

    It is symbolic!

    And "UKRAINE" is not all sold yet ?!
  • Alien From
    Alien From 28 January 2021 23: 30
    0
    "" Symbolically "" not in the eyebrow but in the eye! laughing
  • cniza
    cniza 28 January 2021 13: 14
    +6
    Quote: nsm1
    Maybe scrap metal dealers will buy it as it is.


    Very symbolic names, I will have already been sold ...
    1. major147
      major147 28 January 2021 13: 47
      +18
      Quote: cniza
      Very symbolic names, I will have already been sold ...


      And here is the seller in front of the product ...
      1. cniza
        cniza 28 January 2021 14: 09
        +7
        He is a successor, sold before him ...
        1. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 28 January 2021 14: 26
          +3
          Quote: cniza
          He is a successor, sold before him ..

          Therefore, he did not plant him as he promised
          1. cniza
            cniza 28 January 2021 15: 17
            +3
            He cannot plant what he sat on, otherwise he himself will get there ...
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 28 January 2021 15: 22
              +1
              Quote: cniza
              otherwise he himself will get there

              Climbs himself
              1. cniza
                cniza 28 January 2021 15: 26
                +3
                These are his problems, the ending is clear. a matter of time ...
                1. Lipchanin
                  Lipchanin 28 January 2021 15: 28
                  +2
                  Quote: cniza
                  These are his problems, the ending is clear. a matter of time ...

                  By and large, what does it matter to us
                  1. cniza
                    cniza 28 January 2021 15: 31
                    +4
                    We have already discussed this, if they were on another continent, it would be deep for us ... but they are close at our side, and almost everyone there has relatives, friends, etc., everything will be difficult ...
                  2. Lipchanin
                    Lipchanin 28 January 2021 16: 05
                    +2
                    I mean what they are doing there and what we cannot influence in any way due to the fact that they themselves do not want to receive it
                  3. cniza
                    cniza 28 January 2021 16: 44
                    +3
                    Here, whatever you say, but they will shit in full, first of all for themselves, but we will get it ...
                  4. Lipchanin
                    Lipchanin 28 January 2021 18: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: cniza
                    but we will get it too ...

                    And this is purely neighborly under the door to shit laughing
                  5. cniza
                    cniza 28 January 2021 18: 24
                    +3
                    It's just that they shit under the door of all the neighbors ...
                  6. Lipchanin
                    Lipchanin 28 January 2021 18: 51
                    +4
                    This is a national trait.
                    Above one ... again proves that Russia is to blame for all the troubles.
                    It seems like they are not us, but we are selling all the time request
                  7. cniza
                    cniza 28 January 2021 20: 51
                    +4
                    It is useless for them to explain or prove something, an anomaly works there, I think Kryvyi Rih, all adequate come here, come back, again their brains ...
  • Intruder
    Intruder 29 January 2021 07: 34
    -2
    Batko Makhno was right: "White officers should be hung on the left side of the road, and red commissars - on the right ..." angry
  • Lipchanin
    Lipchanin 28 January 2021 14: 25
    +3
    Quote: cniza
    the country has already been sold ...

    Moreover, they are happy about it
    1. cniza
      cniza 28 January 2021 15: 16
      +3
      They are not just happy, but proudly shout about it to the whole world ...
      1. Lipchanin
        Lipchanin 28 January 2021 15: 23
        +3
        Quote: cniza
        and with pride they shout about it to the whole world ...

        Yes, she is such a suburban pride.
        Selling No.
        1. cniza
          cniza 28 January 2021 15: 25
          +3
          This is not pride, this is stupidity and disgrace to all their ancestors, who are terrified of what they have done ...
          1. Lipchanin
            Lipchanin 28 January 2021 15: 29
            +1
            Quote: cniza
            this is stupidity and a shame to all their ancestors

            Well, if the ancestors of the Mazepa, then the tet only rubs his hands with joy
            1. cniza
              cniza 28 January 2021 15: 33
              +1
              I spoke about other personalities, the grandfather of the same Zelensky, how he would behave ...
              1. Lipchanin
                Lipchanin 28 January 2021 16: 06
                +1
                Quote: cniza
                how would you behave ...

                Do not know request
                1. cniza
                  cniza 28 January 2021 16: 48
                  +2
                  But one can guess that his granddaughter is mocking him, for which he shed blood ...
                2. Lipchanin
                  Lipchanin 28 January 2021 18: 22
                  +2
                  Quote: cniza
                  But one can guess that his granddaughter is mocking him, for which he shed blood ...

                  Now I understand.
                  And such an unprincipled person rules the country ...
                  Well, what were they fighting for ...
                3. cniza
                  cniza 28 January 2021 18: 25
                  +2
                  Somewhere a misfire happened, a gap and the golden calf won ...
                4. Lipchanin
                  Lipchanin 28 January 2021 18: 54
                  +1
                  Well, that's true, it's disgusting to talk about them. This lack of principle = ness, greed, hypocrisy and many other things bad every day ...
                  And you are not going anywhere, but you will read ... neighbors
                5. cniza
                  cniza 28 January 2021 20: 52
                  +2
                  But this is a reality that cannot be hidden, the grandchildren of the front-line soldiers became fascists or are being justified ...
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 28 January 2021 17: 28
    0
    Why stupidity?

    And what option of disposing of "Ukraine" in your opinion is the most optimal at the moment?
    Just do not tell me please that the Ukrainian leadership needs to commit suicide at once and hand over the whole country, including the cruiser "Ukraine" to Russia.
    Or is it better for the Ukrainians to finish building the cruiser?
    1. cniza
      cniza 28 January 2021 18: 21
      +1
      Let them think and decide for themselves, we have enough of our own problems ...
  • alexmach
    alexmach 28 January 2021 13: 37
    -1
    There are still turbines there .. Russia, for example, would be useful.
    1. Reviews
      Reviews 28 January 2021 14: 24
      +3
      Quote: alexmach
      There are still turbines there .. Russia, for example, would be useful.

      Unlikely. Where are they after two decades of inactivity? I'm not sure that heat-resistant steel is also a good stainless steel.
      1. Aleksandr1971
        Aleksandr1971 28 January 2021 17: 30
        0
        In addition, are these turbines, even if they themselves are in good condition, not morally obsolete? For 2 decades, progress has not stood still.
        1. Reviews
          Reviews 28 January 2021 17: 36
          0
          Quote: Aleksandr1971
          In addition, are these turbines, even if they themselves are in good condition, not morally obsolete? For 2 decades, progress has not stood still.

          HZ ... I think that on our ships, which entered service in the 1980s and 90s, the power plant is not changed every 5-10 years either. But I'm not Mariman, I could be wrong.
          And in our aviation, for example, the AI-24 and AI-20 of the 1970s are in full use, although they are already two generations out of date.
          1. Aleksandr1971
            Aleksandr1971 28 January 2021 18: 09
            0
            To rely on old technologies is to be in the position of always catching up, but never catching up. In war, this is death.
    2. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 28 January 2021 14: 27
      0
      Quote: alexmach
      Russia, for example, would be useful.

      Can you imagine what price they would have charged?
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 28 January 2021 14: 28
        +2
        Probably none. In the current situation, it is most likely that in principle they will not be sold to Russia under any circumstances and for any money. Here they write below that under Yanukovych they could not bargain, when it seemed that there were no political problems and the Ministry of Defense had money ...
        1. Avior
          Avior 28 January 2021 17: 47
          +1
          Bargained, but too late
          In 2013, Russia agreed to pay $ 30 million, 1 billion rubles
          But it was too late, we didn't have time.
          Before that, under Serdyukov, they agreed to take only for free.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 28 January 2021 19: 23
            +1
            Sorry. It could be useful, although the fuss with retrofitting with it would also be a lot.
            1. Avior
              Avior 28 January 2021 19: 42
              +1
              It was necessary to take it long before that
              In the early 2000s, there was money for this, and then it was already clear that the Russian shipbuilding industry did not know when it would reach this level.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 28 January 2021 20: 31
                +1
                No, it is now retrospectively clear to us, then it was not a fact that it was clear.
  • Civil
    Civil 28 January 2021 13: 08
    +3
    What, what, and learned to cut into metal masterfully. As well as sawing.
  • Bar1
    Bar1 28 January 2021 13: 09
    -4
    recently they showed the repaired Black Sea catamaran Kommuna, built in 1913. so it has such a good body steel that there is still no corrosion.
    This Ukrainian Ukraine is quite possible to buy, because the hull is okay. Remove launchers for Granites, put new weapons - Caliber, Zircon, and there will be quite a ship to replace the "Moscow".
    MO type counts money, so let them save on the case.
    1. cniza
      cniza 28 January 2021 13: 10
      +11
      They won't sell us, and others won't buy, because everything is tailored to our weapons ...
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 28 January 2021 13: 11
        -2
        Quote: cniza
        They won't sell us, and others won't buy, because everything is tailored to our weapons ...


        then barter, change for gas.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 28 January 2021 13: 21
          +7
          No. Even under Fedorovich, taking into account the bulkhead and retrofitting of the turbines with the help of Zori, the negotiations fell apart. And the Navy abandoned this ship. And there was a full-fledged escort, re-entry and fine-tuning of the ship in Nikolaev, and then transferring it for completion to a Russian shipyard, already in running form.
        2. Lipchanin
          Lipchanin 28 January 2021 14: 31
          0
          Quote: Bar1

          then barter, change for gas.

          Will it be like buying all the trash on the outskirts?
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 28 January 2021 15: 10
            0
            Quote: Lipchanin
            Quote: Bar1

            then barter, change for gas.

            Will it be like buying all the trash on the outskirts?


            It is not necessary to be like ukram. But to get a SOVIET ship with a good hull is reasonable.
            1. Lipchanin
              Lipchanin 28 January 2021 15: 20
              0
              Quote: Bar1
              But to get a SOVIET ship with a good hull is reasonable.

              Why are you up against this building?
              This is already rubbish, not a body. He will be gold for the price to drag him to Russia
              What, we can't build our own if needed?
              He is at least 37 years old.
              A couple more years and it will completely rot
              1. Bar1
                Bar1 28 January 2021 15: 59
                +1
                do I have to repeat ten times? I told you why this ship is worth your attention, which is not clear?
                The commune has not rotted, do you even read, or do you snatch it in pieces?
                1. Lipchanin
                  Lipchanin 28 January 2021 16: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: Bar1
                  What's not clear?

                  All.
                  Quote: Bar1
                  The commune did not rot

                  And hundreds of thousands have rotted away.
                  One boat is not an indicator
                  Do you know the state of this unfinished building now?
                  Maybe he has already taken off 99% and therefore no one needs it
                  Well besides you laughing
                2. Senior seaman
                  Senior seaman 28 January 2021 18: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Bar1
                  The commune did not rot

                  There is a completely different steel.
      2. PROXOR
        PROXOR 28 January 2021 13: 17
        +4
        China to ask. China has a tooth sharpened on horses for Motor Sich.
        1. Brturin
          Brturin 28 January 2021 15: 01
          +1
          Quote: PROXOR
          China has a tooth sharpened on horses for Motor Sich.

          And also a grain loan, just the other day Ze noted a doctor and among the few who congratulated him comrade Xi, there are no leaders of Europe on the list, but the Chinese were noted. They know how to conclude agreements - after the same grain loan in Ukraine they complained "The essence of this contract is that we cannot alienate anything from the company. The contract was signed completely on the side of the Chinese" ... the Chinese can see their long-lasting views ...
      3. tarabar
        tarabar 28 January 2021 14: 59
        0
        They won't sell us, and others won't buy, because everything is tailored to our weapons ...

        I give the Raguli the scheme. Let the Belarusians be sold (for the Belarusian Sea, just right laughing ), and they will drive it to us, like, here the cruiser is lying around - do you want it for a short time?
        But in truth, the state after 30 years of inactivity raises very big doubts and one is tempted that a new one is not worth it without a run. Although the cut cruiser "Ukraine" I will regret more than the torn state of Ukraine.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 28 January 2021 13: 20
      +4
      What for? These cruisers are built around the P-500 complex. They are very difficult to upgrade. This is impractical and expensive. Therefore, all modernization programs for the existing 3x1164, including the quite cheerful Ustinov (his mileage is small), were cut. Only repairs with focal replacement of posts and systems.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 28 January 2021 13: 26
        -2
        Quote: donavi49
        What for? These cruisers are built around the P-500 complex.


        Basalts and Granites of 6 tons are now an anachronism, the new Calibers and Onyxes are smaller and lighter, so there is quite a place for yourself on the ship in the hull.
        Now new power plants are being built, which are also more compact, so that it is very possible to update the entire ship's economy.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 28 January 2021 13: 29
          +3
          No. Well, that is, you can come up with and shove some thread of 32 shock missiles. But it will be very expensive and time-consuming, cheaper to build 22350 with additional UKSK.

          The Navy after Nakhimov, which resulted in a long-term construction with a failure of estimates and deadlines, it is generally doubtful that it will subscribe to at least some serious project (the same Peter will only be repaired with focal modernization of systems and posts). The maximum is to replace the AU with a cellar with a UKSK in 1155 and weld 2x4 X-35 instead of Bells.

          And here everything has to be opened and redone.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 28 January 2021 13: 32
            -3
            Quote: donavi49
            But it will be very expensive and time-consuming, cheaper to build 22350 with additional UKSK.


            how do you know that "long and expensive"? On the contrary, the hull is intact, and the hull is 30-40% of the cost of the ship.
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 28 January 2021 13: 48
          +1
          Quote: Bar1
          Now new power plants are being built, which are also more compact, so that it is very possible to update the entire ship's economy.

          He has a kind of power plant. In addition to gas turbine engines, it also has steam boilers that run on the exhaust of turbines. According to this principle, modern power plants are now being built (those that run on gas).
          But on ships such a power plant is not often found.
          If anyone has more specific information on this topic (or refutes what I wrote), I would like to hear.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 28 January 2021 13: 53
      +4
      Quote: Bar1
      Ukraine is quite possible to buy, because the hull is in order. Remove the launchers under the Granites, install new weapons - Caliber, Zircon, and there will be quite a ship to replace the Moskva

      It's cheaper to do all this with "Moscow".
      1. tarabar
        tarabar 28 January 2021 15: 07
        0
        I heard that the Achilles heel of such upgrades is that Calibers, Zircons, Onyxes are not adapted for inclined launchers, and the introduction of vertical 3M-14 into the hull is very difficult or impossible at all.
        1. Piramidon
          Piramidon 28 January 2021 16: 21
          0
          Quote: tarabar
          I heard that the Achilles heel of such upgrades is that Calibers, Zircons, Onyxes are not adapted for inclined launchers, and the introduction of vertical 3M-14 into the hull is very difficult or impossible at all.

          I agree. The game is not worth the candle. Moreover, to bother with the rotten body of the "Ukraine"
    4. Serg65
      Serg65 28 January 2021 14: 49
      +3
      Quote: Bar1
      The commune was built in 1913.

      1915 year
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 28 January 2021 15: 08
        +1
        Quote: Serg65
        Quote: Bar1
        The commune was built in 1913.

        1915 year

        launched in 13g
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 29 January 2021 07: 24
          +2
          Quote: Bar1
          launched in 13g

          This does not mean that ..
          Quote: Bar1
          The commune was built in 1913.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 29 January 2021 08: 00
            +1
            Quote: Serg65
            This does not mean that ..


            this means that the harmful marine environment began to affect the hull exactly in 13g.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 28 January 2021 13: 15
    +1
    The government of Ukraine has made a final decision on the unfinished cruiser "Ukraine", located at the Nikolaev shipyard. Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said that the ship will be sold or scrapped

    There, the state of the skakuas itself is not far from such a final.
  • halpat
    halpat 28 January 2021 13: 25
    +3
    Quote: cniza
    Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said the ship would be sold or scrapped.

    Who will buy it, and you need to dispose of money and not a little ...

    If you strip on a mustache a first-rate, non-efficient solution about disposal, then it will be sawn with hacksaws for metal and taken to garages, sheds, vegetable gardens.
    Well like piranhas smile on the Amazon.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 28 January 2021 13: 33
    0
    Quote: cniza
    Who will buy it, and you need to dispose of money and not a little ...

    As a rule, when cutting ships, there is a small profit. And scrap metal is always in price
  • TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 28 January 2021 13: 55
    +3
    Do not worry, Bandera metalworkers have a lot of experience. As soon as the security is removed, it will be dismantled right afloat))))
    1. Lipchanin
      Lipchanin 28 January 2021 14: 33
      0
      Quote: TermNachTER
      it will be taken apart right afloat))))

      They will tear laughing
  • Atlant-1164
    Atlant-1164 28 January 2021 14: 42
    +10
    Chinese .. one cruiser under the casino, from Ukraine have already bought. can and repeat.
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 28 January 2021 19: 07
      0
      It makes no sense, except for the rusty box there is nothing left. Their type 55 - "a cut above".
  • bar
    bar 28 January 2021 15: 22
    0
    Quote: cniza
    Who will buy it, and you need to dispose of money and not a little ...

    Will buy. Now the prices for horse scrap. Oilmen are even going to dispose of their supertankers, it has become more profitable than using them for storage tanks for oil.
  • Aleksandr1971
    Aleksandr1971 28 January 2021 17: 24
    0
    Earlier, when the cruiser was not yet rotten, it could be bought by rapidly growing countries of Asia with naval ambitions. We are talking about Indonesia, Vietnam, the Philippines, Pakistan.
    Of course, China will not buy because it has already outgrown Project 1164.
  • bayard
    bayard 29 January 2021 08: 52
    0
    Quote: cniza
    Who will buy it, but you need money to dispose of, and not small ones ..

    They can be used as an attraction. Of course, only at the price of scrap.
    In general, it is a pity that Russia did not buy such a powerful and new ship from Ukraine at least for gas debts.
    And there were such proposals.
    And now there would be not one old "Moscow" on the Black Sea Fleet, but two cruisers of the same type with impressive firepower.
  • Ka-52
    Ka-52 28 January 2021 12: 51
    +15
    On October 1, 1993, at 75% readiness, it was withdrawn from the Russian Navy and transferred to the ownership of Ukraine.

    only for this alone it is necessary to dig up Boria, protect him with a shovel and bury him back.
    1. VORON538
      VORON538 28 January 2021 13: 01
      +3
      Nevertheless, they gave it away, just gave it to the Square, they called ... Ukraine what ... "Whatever you call a yacht, so it will float" (c) ... And this should not be buried back, but buried in an unknown place so that no one could find it! hi
    2. fiberboard
      fiberboard 28 January 2021 14: 36
      +2
      If you dig for this purpose, then you don't need to bury it later. There are so many things to do with him that you have to beat without stopping. One uranium deal is worth it.
    3. Avior
      Avior 28 January 2021 17: 52
      -1
      Yeah
      Borya is guilty in many ways, but first you need to figure it out - who invented that the cruiser in the plant in Nikolaev was part of the Russian Navy?
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 January 2021 12: 51
    +7
    First, the cruiser, then the uk-roina itself will be utelezed, or sold under the hammer by the "sponsors" of the Euromaidan. ..I would like to hope that this understatement will sink into oblivion, sharing the fate of the cruiser, which was never completed by them. ...
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 28 January 2021 12: 52
    +5
    the ship will be sold or scrapped.
    Very symbolic!
  • ccsr
    ccsr 28 January 2021 12: 52
    +3
    On August 11, 1990, the cruiser was launched. On October 1, 1993, at 75% readiness, it was withdrawn from the Russian Navy and transferred to the ownership of Ukraine.

    What a prudent and planned economic and military sabotage - after all, they knew that they wouldn’t finish the construction, but they would spend a lot of money on it. This is what Soviet military science means, even then everyone accurately calculated and implemented their plan. Let the svidomye itch now ...
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 28 January 2021 12: 53
    -1
    Initially, the cruiser was named "Komsomolets"

    Unlucky title.
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 28 January 2021 12: 55
    +3
    The puppy is dead. Ukraine.
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 28 January 2021 12: 57
    0
    "Final decision": Kiev decided on the further fate of the cruiser "Ukraine"


    No cruiser, no Ukraine. One banderstat with a wild, poor and angry population. am
    1. businessv
      businessv 28 January 2021 13: 28
      +4
      Quote: Lord of the Sith
      One banderstat with a wild, poor and angry population.
      Do not offend the population of a country given into slavery without their knowledge, colleague, this is ugly!
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 28 January 2021 13: 29
        -1
        Do not offend the population of a country given into slavery without their knowledge, colleague, this is ugly!

        Yes, it is ugly to mock patients))
      2. Andrei Nikolaevich
        Andrei Nikolaevich 28 January 2021 15: 18
        -1
        That's just the point, that with their knowledge, and according to their great desire.
  • Alexy
    Alexy 28 January 2021 13: 06
    +6
    Russia didn’t want to buy, because Ukraine broke almost a lard of greenery. The ship lacked the Fort air defense system and the n-500 missiles. They wanted to pay partly with gas and partly with money, but Ukraine refused. How do I know - don't ask.)
    1. Sergey Obraztsov
      Sergey Obraztsov 28 January 2021 14: 24
      +2
      So this information has long been in the public domain. Even the news was on this portal: https://topwar.ru/33362-rossiya-kupit-edinstvennyy-ukrainskiy-kreyser.html
      But the greed of Ukraine ruined the creation of human hands ..
    2. Avior
      Avior 28 January 2021 15: 14
      -3
      Russia wanted to take it for free, and pay only for the completion.
      Ukraine refused. Give away for free.
      1. Alexy
        Alexy 28 January 2021 16: 34
        0
        No, Russia offered different options. There was no talk about free.
        1. Avior
          Avior 28 January 2021 17: 53
          -1
          Still as it was. Serdyukov witness
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 28 January 2021 13: 10
    0
    the question of selling it is passed from government to government
    When there is no buyer for such "good" (it has been rusting at the pier for 27 years), it is not surprising. Obviously, even the Chinese were not interested in hundreds of tons of scrap metal. The time will come and no one will need Ukraine for nothing.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 January 2021 13: 26
      +2
      So, why would the Chinese need it? They have chosen a fundamentally different path and assemble their standardized destroyers more than anyone else in the world. It makes no sense to take it even for reverse engineering. They have more modern turbines from the same Zori, a more modern version of the air defense system has been transferred with documentation + their own production and release of their versions, their own electronics, their own radars and sonars. CIC your well, etc.
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 January 2021 15: 12
        -3
        The Chinese followed the path of the Americans.
        The Soviet standard of the fleet clearly did not suit them.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 28 January 2021 13: 14
    -1
    The ship did not have a chance to reason with our enemies with its power.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Cron
    Cron 28 January 2021 13: 19
    +2
    What do you call the ship ...
    But Russia at one time wanted to buy it, for good money. But the greedy bureaucrats of Ukraine turned the price down
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 January 2021 15: 11
      -6
      They wanted to pick up for free and pay only for the completion
      Ukraine did not agree.
  • businessv
    businessv 28 January 2021 13: 23
    +1
    On December 17, 1993 the cruiser was named "Ukraine".
    How symbolic! Everything in the cruiser repeats the fate of the owner country. Whatever you call it, it will float ... request
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 28 January 2021 15: 16
      0
      That's right, for sure!
  • Andre___86
    Andre___86 28 January 2021 13: 28
    +2
    When will the entire project Ukraine be sold?)))
    1. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 28 January 2021 13: 45
      +1
      Sold already in 2014.
  • Sergey Kulikov_3
    Sergey Kulikov_3 28 January 2021 13: 34
    0
    The government of Ukraine has unambiguously decided whether this, or one of the two, the main thing is unambiguous - it is not more than 9, although who knows how much it will be in Moscow-surzhik, this science does not know.
  • Roman123567
    Roman123567 28 January 2021 13: 37
    +5
    to sell the 95% -built cruiser to Russia, but Moscow refused to buy and complete it, since its completion required a serious modernization of the Nikolaevsky Shipyard's facilities, and the delivery of the cruiser to Severodvinsk was fraught with the danger of losing the ship and was considered inappropriate.


    What is this 95% readiness .. which requires "serious modernization of the capacity of the Nikolaev Shipyard", and "delivery is fraught with the danger of losing the ship"
    1. Avior
      Avior 28 January 2021 15: 10
      -2
      This is an outright fiction. There was no problem with the completion, it was only necessary to pay and the cruiser
  • Incvizitor
    Incvizitor 28 January 2021 13: 45
    -1
    This cruiser is just like this country, rusty, outdated and useless as a suitcase without a handle.
  • Horon
    Horon 28 January 2021 13: 48
    0
    the ship will be sold or scrapped

    A karmic event both for the ship and for the one whose name it was given!
  • svoit
    svoit 28 January 2021 13: 55
    +1
    Quote: donavi49
    , and then transferring it to completion at a Russian shipyard, already in running form.

    At that time we did not have a suitable shipyard on the Black and Azov Seas.
  • Mikhail Zakharov
    Mikhail Zakharov 28 January 2021 14: 06
    -5
    could have been bought, but the money went to the palace with the aquadiskoteka
  • senima56
    senima56 28 January 2021 14: 20
    +3
    "Do not snout a loaf!" hi
    1. Andrei Nikolaevich
      Andrei Nikolaevich 28 January 2021 15: 15
      +1
      I will add: "with a pork snout, but in a kalashny row"
  • lvov_aleksey
    lvov_aleksey 28 January 2021 14: 36
    0
    Quote: cniza
    Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said the ship would be sold or scrapped.


    Who will buy it, and you need to dispose of money and not a little ...

    I hope Russia will not help Square
  • venik
    venik 28 January 2021 14: 58
    0
    "...The Ukrainian government adopted final decision on the unfinished cruiser "Ukraine" ... the ship will be sold out or scrapped....."
    =======
    Not understood!? belay What could have been some third decision??? sad request
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 28 January 2021 15: 03
    0
    And that, a good thing, ships are on pins and needles, maybe a light, such a light industry will move at least a little bit, although it is unlikely, they will be plundered as usual.
  • Avior
    Avior 28 January 2021 15: 08
    -4
    ... In 2010, Ukraine planned to sell the 95% built cruiser to Russia, but Moscow refused to buy and complete it, since its completion required a serious modernization of the Nikolaev Shipyard's facilities.

    Is the author making up on the move?
    There was only one problem - Ukraine wanted to pay for the cruiser, and Russia only wanted to complete it.
    In the world, as it turned out, no one needs him either.
    1. tarabar
      tarabar 28 January 2021 15: 35
      +1
      Their cruiser is like an old piano in a one-room apartment, I don't know how to play, it gets in the way all the time, sell, so no one buys, but it's a pity to throw it away. In such cases, there is a heading "I'll give it in good hands", but this is not about the Ukrainians, apparently, and our option to take it for free with completion for money in Nikolaev, perhaps it was not the worst option.
    2. Alexy
      Alexy 28 January 2021 16: 51
      0
      I don’t know as the author, but you’re definitely coming up with it on the fly) For what kind of completion? The cruiser was ready, but without Russia, Ukraine could not install the fort and the n-500. Those. do you think Russia wanted to pay for the installation of the fort, loading the p-500 missiles, which it itself would sell to Ukraine and take the ship for free ???)))
      1. Avior
        Avior 28 January 2021 17: 28
        -1
        No, just pick up for free
        In March 2011, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said that the Russian side would take the Ukraine missile cruiser only for nothing. And only after that various options for the participation of Ukrainian companies in the completion of the ship will be considered.

        A little later, Russia agreed to pay for the cruiser at the price of scrap metal AZO million dollars.
        The missile cruiser of Project 1164 (formerly "Ukraine") will be completed by the end of the year and offered to Russia for a billion rubles. This was reported to "Interfax" by a representative of the Military-Industrial Commission (MIC) under the Russian government.

        “This is a very good price for an unfinished ship, and if we correct it, it will only be downward,” the agency's source explained.

        Currently, the cruiser is at the shipyard of the 61st Kommunar shipyard in Nikolaev. Earlier it was reported that in 1995 the price of the cruiser was $ 720 million.
        1. Alexy
          Alexy 29 January 2021 16: 37
          0
          The cruiser was 95% ready in 2001 and it was then that Russia wanted to buy it. In 2003, the last crew was disbanded and there was no one to even look after the ship. Even then, the plant did not pull it and wanted to get rid of it as soon as possible. And in 2011 this ship was already unknown in what condition, and this time it was Ukraine who wanted to sell it.
          1. Avior
            Avior 29 January 2021 17: 37
            +1
            In 2001, Russia refused to buy it, as Luzhkov did not fight and wrote letters to the president, it did not give anything, as in 2011, as in 1993, they also refused to buy
            It only came in 2013, but it was too late.
  • Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 28 January 2021 15: 14
    +4
    After that, "Ukraine" will be put up for sale. It is symbolic. Earnestly. It is a pity that we are talking only about the ship.
  • Alexander X
    Alexander X 28 January 2021 15: 14
    +2
    Ukraine will be put up for auction, and if no one needs it, they will dispose of it ... Play on words, but symbolic ... And no matter how prophecy
  • The comment was deleted.
  • hydroy
    hydroy 28 January 2021 15: 42
    +1
    I would have bought it and renamed it Novorossiya)))))))))
  • alexniko77
    alexniko77 28 January 2021 15: 52
    0
    as you name the ship, so it will float ...
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 28 January 2021 16: 21
    +1
    Ukraine will be sold or scrapped. Or both at the same time.
  • wow
    wow 28 January 2021 16: 22
    +2
    Those. Ukraine will either be sold or disposed of. Oh-oh-oh-very symbolic. The first, in fact, was done a long time ago ...
  • dgonni
    dgonni 28 January 2021 20: 10
    0
    The saddest thing in this story is that Yeltsin refused to buy it out! Moreover, for ridiculous money! But in fact, it would not be superfluous.
    However, the same story with the Varyag! Ukraine did not need these ships a priori. But the reluctance to redeem new hardware in fact for ridiculous money is shocking!
    For re-equipment of the shipyard when the ship is 95% ready, it caused wild laughter!
    1. Dimon-SPG
      Dimon-SPG 30 January 2021 02: 54
      0
      No fairy tales. She was not redeemed because of the excessive greed of the ragul who broke the price.
  • Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 28 January 2021 21: 59
    +1
    Let Ukraine scrapped ... It is somehow very symbolic ...
    How to name the ship - so it will go ...
  • Growlers
    Growlers 28 January 2021 22: 18
    +9
    Do you have money for recycling?
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 28 January 2021 22: 50
    0
    And rightly so, at the same time they will calculate all their losses since 1984. For 35 years, there have been tens of million tanks of minuses.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 28 January 2021 22: 54
    +1
    It is symbolic how !!! Power!
  • Maxim V.
    Maxim V. 29 January 2021 00: 56
    +2
    In the blue sea, like in a pharmacy
    Everything has an essence and weight.
    Ship like a man
    The name is desperately needed.
    You knowingly give a name
    I'll tell you in advance
    What do you call a yacht
    So it will float ... ..


    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 29 January 2021 01: 51
      0

      Maxim V. (Maxim Vshivtsev)
      Today, 00: 56
      Н
      Maxim V. (Maxim Vshivtsev)
      Today, 00: 56
      NEW
      +1
      In the blue sea, like in a pharmacy
      Everything has an essence and weight.
      Ship like a man
      The name is desperately needed.
      You knowingly give a name
      I'll tell you in advance
      What do you call a yacht
      So she will swim.....
      good
      Here they are, unnecessary non-rulers, and "float" (I hope you know WHAT floats! wink ).
  • tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 29 January 2021 03: 36
    0
    "As the ship is named, so it will float" !!! - symbolic.
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 29 January 2021 03: 49
    0
    In 2010, Ukraine planned to sell the Russian-built 95% cruiser, but Moscow refused to buy it and finish it, since its completion required a serious modernization of the Nicholas CVD capacities, and the delivery of the cruiser to Severodvinsk was fraught with the risk of losing the ship and was considered inappropriate.


    How many reasons have been invented. In reality, there was one reason and it was expressed in the fact that the Ukrainian government bent an exorbitant price for a ship. This very price in Russia was considered inappropriate and exorbitant.


    "Final decision": Kiev decided on the further fate of the cruiser "Ukraine"


    well, what is it final if the article indicates
    Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said that the ship will be sold or scrapped


    Disposal differs from sale.
  • Aramis
    Aramis 29 January 2021 04: 15
    0
    China needs new floating casinos in Macau.
  • ermak124.0
    ermak124.0 29 January 2021 06: 04
    0
    Risk of losing your ship when towing ... Yeah. And the Chinese comrades of the Varyag were not afraid to push through half the world ... What else to say?
  • Vladimir 62
    Vladimir 62 29 January 2021 06: 46
    +1
    Quote: orionvitt
    Just fine. The words that Ukraine will either be sold at a reasonable price or utilized are fully consistent with modern realities. I would even say that they have not only a symbolic meaning, but have quite a sacred meaning.

    I imagined a picture: there is a man with a hammer and says-Ukraine at the price of scrap metal, Ukraine at the price of scrap-two, Ukraine at the price of scrap-three, Ukraine sold.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • safar gafarov
    safar gafarov 29 January 2021 09: 19
    +1
    and why do you have Ukraine?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • gjkrjdybr50
    gjkrjdybr50 29 January 2021 14: 02
    0
    Everything that bears the name Ukraine will be sold or disposed of! Fate....!
  • zenion
    zenion 29 January 2021 15: 59
    0
    Let them not forget to remove the screws, they are made of gold. This is how many teeth you can rivet from screws. Let the gypsies call, they will take it apart in three days, for the screws.
  • Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 29 January 2021 19: 46
    0
    Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Oleg Urusky said that the ship will be sold or scrapped

    Well, in principle, they decided with the unfinished ship - now we need to solve something with the unfinished state.
    Sell ​​or Dispose of?