New armor and Belgian cannon: Indonesia intends to modernize amphibious tanks PT-76

Soviet floating Tanks PT-76, produced in 1951 - 1967, for a long time managed to show worthy service in the Asia-Pacific region, in particular, taking an active part in the Vietnam War.

Currently, these vehicles continue to be part of the armies of a number of countries, including Indonesia. The military of this country, which has a long coastline and many islands, traditionally focus on floating technology. In this regard, within the framework of the modernization of the armed forces, the possibility of improving the PT-76 fleet is being studied.

As the command of the Marine Corps reported on January 27, the implementation of the program for the improvement of Soviet amphibious tanks continues. KMP intends to raise them to a new technical level. It is assumed that the upgraded PT-76 will receive a 90-mm cannon (the option of equipping a turret with a Belgian LCTS 90MP cannon is being considered), optoelectronic filling, improved protection (including by strengthening armor), a fire control system, an electromechanical part will be updated and fire extinguishing equipment, will receive an improved engine, drives, hydraulics and water jet propellers. The new version of the tank has already received the designation PT-90RI.

According to the IISS, 15 PT-76 units are currently serving in the Indonesian army, and 55 vehicles in the Marine Corps. It is quite possible that the Russian defense industry will take an active part in the modernization of this park, among whose priorities is traditionally floating equipment.

Concept PT-90RI. Source: https://defencehub.live/

LCTS 90MP cannon. Source: John Cockerill website

Comments

[Uncle lee]

So much for the PT-90RI ..... The smoking room is alive!

[Vladimir_2U]

These are the prospects for Octopus!

[tralflot1832]

So ours drove him in the tropics for a reason, just don't say where!

[Thrall]

A reliable light amphibious tank will always be in demand in Asian countries with a humid climate.

[bayard]

Quote from Uncle Lee

So much for the PT-90RI

The only question is, will it float after such an upgrade?
With reinforced armor, a more powerful and heavier cannon and ammo for it?
But as a platform, he is still quite nothing.
By the way, instead of the Belgian cannon, a 100 mm gun could be proposed. from BMP-3 - and the caliber is larger, and the rocket shoots, and the weight, as it were, is not lighter.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Unlikely. The Belgians have a low-impulse weapon, which, figuratively speaking, even put on a bicycle. It is lighter, although it loses in terms of armor penetration and high-explosive effects.

[bayard]

And he doesn't fire a rocket.
Ours would have stood up completely and would have been more interesting, but they seem to be closer to Belgium - they will not impose sanctions on it.

[The leader of the Redskins]

You are wrong. FALARICK 90. Just for this weapon. True, it was developed and produced in Kiev.

[Alex777]

There is not only a cannon - a comprehensive upgrade.
Apparently, the Belgians took a lot of things to do.

[bayard]

Or maybe ours simply did not show the initiative. Or they even refused to modernize such an old pepelatsa, because we are supplying BMP-3 there. And they are very happy there.
Maybe ours just didn't want to separate the module and separately 100 mm. adapt the cannon to a tower that is alien to her. It's OCD, hassle.
Why, if you can offer brand new BMP-3s, which have proven themselves VERY well there?
But these are only assumptions.

[Alex777]

We would have enough sights for our tanks.
I think so...
Although it is quite possible that the Belgians will take something from us. on international cooperation?

[PROXOR]

Why fence a vegetable garden when BMP-3s are approximately equal in armor to PT-76s, but in terms of combat qualities they are many times better. She only lacks a panorama with a teplak.

[ccsr]

Quote: PROXOR

Why fence a vegetable garden when BMP-3s are approximately equal in armor to PT-76s, but in terms of combat qualities they are many times better.

I cannot compare them, because the seaworthiness of these products is unknown, but I note that combat vehicles have many more different hatches and places where water can seep. That is why a "clean" tank wins in this respect, especially if it comes under fire in the water.
I think. that we need to somehow secure guaranteed orders from several countries, and urgently modernize our PT-76 for new weapons (more precisely, create a new one using some of the solutions of the past) so that we can fill this niche in the arms trade.
Yes, and inside the Armed Forces, we might need to revise some established traditions from the point of view of the development of our armored vehicles for different situations, and not rely only on BMPs.

[PROXOR]

The Indonesians also have BMP3 and the same PT-76. They operate both machines very successfully. Moreover, when disembarking from a landing ship through a flooded dock. It will definitely not work to fence the Bakhcha combat module on the PT-76 hull. It is banal that the pagon of the tower is narrower than that of the BMP-3. Again, the BAKHCHA moldul has a much greater mass than the native PT-76 tower and it needs much more power supply.
By the way. Indonesians are happy to drool by 3rd Behoy.

[ccsr]

Quote: PROXOR

The Indonesians also have BMP3 and the same PT-76.

Since they want to modernize the PT-76, it means they need it, otherwise they would have been removed from service and replaced with BMP-3.

Quote: PROXOR

It will definitely not work to fence the Bakhcha combat module on the PT-76 hull.

Do the Indonesians need it if they focus on increasing the caliber of the gun?

Quote: PROXOR

By the way. Indonesians are happy to drool by 3rd Behoy.

Everyone is happy with our technology - except for Western competitors. They just don't talk about it in order to bring down our price, but we know their tricks.

[bayard]

Quote: PROXOR

It will definitely not work to fence the Bakhcha combat module on the PT-76 hull. It is banal that the pagon of the tower is narrower than that of the BMP-3. Again, the BAKHCHA moldul has a much greater mass than the native PT-76 tower

Is it really about the entire combat module?
The Indonesians want to keep the PT-76 in service, but to increase the caliber of the gun and modernize it in general. Therefore, I wrote that it is much more profitable to install a gun (100 mm) from the BMP-3 than to install 90 mm. cannon from another manufacturer. Here is the unification of ammunition, and the greater power of the shells, and the possibility of firing missiles. After all, it is much more profitable to have one weapon for two different combat vehicles than to produce a zoo. Yes, and for the money, it would be more profitable with us.

[Alex777]

The sighting complex of the Belgians is much better. IMHO.

[YOUR]

I wonder how legal it is to modernize the technique in this way, all the rights to the production of which belong to another country. What do international laws say about this?

[nsm1]

There are no internationally binding laws.
The state can only voluntarily assume some restrictions.
And in the same way to refuse them.
Everything is decided exclusively force.
Military, economic ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: YOUR

I wonder how legal it is, to modernize the technique in this way, all the rights to the production of which belong to another country

Ask the Chinese. They are already savvy in such matters.

[Thrifty]

So, they say and write a lot that light tanks are selling well on the world arms market, that China is the leader in their sales, and I am sure that we must create at least for export such a tank, moderately inexpensive and competitive, with good protection, high cross-country ability, and strong weapons. We do not have a light single-engine fighter, and this is also a money segment of weapons on the world market, we do not have a light export tank, and we are also losing good money!

[Dodikson]

to model the T-64 and T-62, according to the new classification, they are suitable for light weight, do not have cardboard armor (most light tanks are infantry fighting vehicles with a large-caliber cannon), and a gun of a larger caliber than most of them (most often 105mm).

[Petro_tut]

to model T-64 and T-62, according to the new classification they are suitable for light weight

Offer to teach from another to swim and airborne from planes

[Dodikson]

what for ? their new tanks that they are preparing together with the Turks (MMWT) also do not float, do not drop from planes. have a weight of 32-34 tons, have bulletproof armor, a 105mm cannon and cost 2 times more than the T-90.

[Petro_tut]

Turks and Indonesians build a medium tank, and you suggested

to model T-64 and T-62, according to the new classification they are suitable for light weight

or did not you write it?

[Dodikson]

T-64
Medium tank classification
Combat weight, t 36
at the same time, the T-64 has multi-layer anti-cannon armor and a 125mm cannon.

[yehat2]

experiments on landing the tank were carried out, but in the end they refused.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Thrifty

I am sure that we are obliged to create at least for export such a tank, moderately inexpensive,

There is "Octopus"! Sighting systems are simpler, they are suitable for landing, and a light amphibious and very heavily armed tank is ready.

[Nikolaevich I]

It is assumed that the upgraded PT-76 will receive a 90-mm cannon (the option of equipping a turret with a Belgian LCTS 90MP gun is being considered), optoelectronic filling, improved protection (including by strengthening the armor), a fire control system, the electromechanical part and fire extinguishing equipment will be updated, an improved engine, drives, hydraulics and water-jet propellers will be received. ... after that it also swims! Whaaaasheee!
Although ... the Chinese also once bungled something like that ... "Type 63"!

[sen]

The Type 63A amphibious tank began to arrive in the units of the Chinese marines and in the amphibious units of the Chinese ground forces in 1997. It has 105 mm. a rifled cannon with a low recoil impulse, equipped with a muzzle brake and a gas ejector, the latter for reducing the gas content of the tower. It was based on the British L7 cannon.

[The leader of the Redskins]

Yes. With 85 mm, if I am not mistaken, in the first version of modernization.

[svp67]

Well, let's see what they do, it's really interesting. Moreover, the PT-76 is indeed a tank with great modernization capabilities, even now. Thanks to the genius Kotin

[rotmistr60]

PT-76, produced in 1951 - 1967

And long standing in service and our marines. The school studied this tank, like other tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers that were in service at that time. In 1976-79 he had to participate three times in joint exercises with the marines (we were in favor of the enemy). Feedback from them about the PT-76 was only positive. The same chassis was used on the BTR-50 PC.

[carstorm 11]

Not only MP. At one time, all reconnaissance of tank formations was wound on them.

[Jacket in stock]

the modernized PT-76 will receive a 90-mm cannon (the option of equipping a turret with the Belgian LCTS 90MP gun is being considered), optoelectronic filling, improved protection (including by strengthening armor), a fire control system, an electromechanical part and fire extinguishing equipment will be updated, will receive an improved engine, drives, hydraulics and water-jet propellers

I remembered the parody song "What's left if it's gone?"
In this case, what will remain of the PT-76? Rollers and tracks?

[alex51217]

It's a pity that we will not modernize, there would be work and money

[Bad_gr]

Quote: alex51217

It's a pity that we won't be upgrading

We have our own version of modernization:

With 57mm cannon.
".... The gun is equipped with an automatic loader. The automatic cannon's rate of fire is 120 rds / min. The full ammunition reserve is 70 rounds in armor-piercing tracer and fragmentation tracer versions.
The effective range of the cannon for enemy tank vehicles is 1000 meters, and the BTR and BMP are 2500 meters. The application range for enemy air objects is up to 4000 meters.
The range of the Kornet missiles is 5000 meters. Penetration - up to 120 centimeters.
Not ignored the characteristics of mobility. The PT-76 can be equipped with a powerful 420 hp propulsion system. This will qualitatively raise the main speed characteristics of the PT-76. The speed of overcoming water obstacles will increase to 14 kilometers per hour ..... "

[ccsr]

Quote: Bad_gr

We have our own version of modernization:

Handsome, you will not say anything, but the caliber is rather weak for high-explosive fragmentation and HEAT shells. So it's up to the customer to decide whether they'll take it.

[abrakadabre]

It is assumed that the upgraded PT-76 will receive a 90-mm cannon (the option of equipping a turret with a Belgian LCTS 90MP cannon is being considered), optoelectronic filling, improved protection (including by strengthening armor), a fire control system, an electromechanical part will be updated and fire extinguishing equipment, will receive an improved engine, drives, hydraulics and water jet propellers.

Will the original model have enough buoyancy for all these Wishlist? In the above picture I can already see that the new tower is much larger than the old one. The size and weight of the gun too. This means that the tank afloat will receive an increased front end differential. It means that it will become stronger to burrow into the wave. Turning the turret and firing sideways while afloat also become questionable due to the fact that when turning the turret, the tank will begin to sausage in the transverse direction. For the weight of the weapon and the length of the barrel are the "lever".
Or the Indonesians will attach floats to him on outriggers to calm the pitching? Like on Polynesian catamarans.
Can anyone clarify who is more in the subject? What is the buoyancy of the original model?

[Ros 56]

Why not, if people want to? It's the master's business.

[aszzz888]

Well, let them try with Ptukha, you look what they will invent. And the life of the product itself will be extended.

[Lord of the Sith]

Old but not useless)))

[ccsr]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

Old but not useless)))

It was just a very successful development, which significantly outlived its time as a Kalashnikov assault rifle. That is why they are still used today - this is evidence of its usefulness.

[yehat2]

Quote: ccsr

because the seaworthiness of these products is unknown

known - recently tested in the Kerch Bay.
the conclusion is simple - even in a calm sea there is only buoyancy, there is no seaworthiness.
they can swim relatively normally only on lakes without waves - even Ladoga is too dangerous,
On the test - yes, the tank can swim and even beautifully, but this is very unreliable, the cars are poorly protected from flooding and other problems. The statistics of losses when trying to swim speaks for itself.