Military Review

Russia and High Technologies: Opportunities for Import Substitution in Microelectronics

412

Over the past decade, both state leaders and independent experts have often and a lot talked about the need for import substitution of goods. In a number of areas of Russian industry and agriculture, it has indeed been possible to achieve very good indicators of import substitution. But with high technologies, everything is much more complicated: once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world, our country is now forced to acquire microelectronics in other countries.


The legacy of the "dashing nineties" - the decline of microelectronics


The head of the Russian government Mikhail Mishustin does not hide the sad situation in the field of microelectronics. According to the Prime Minister, 25 years ago, in the middle of the "dashing nineties", Russia began to lose its positions in the field of microelectronics. Now on the world market, Russian microelectronics accounts for only 1% of the total world export. Not very good performance, is it? But what to expect from the domestic high-tech industry, which was literally destroyed in the 1990s? Now they are trying to restore it, but with very great difficulty.

Of course, it is not so easy to win the competition with microelectronics titans - Japanese and American companies, and at this stage it is completely impossible. Russia provides its own needs in microelectronics only by 41%, according to the same Mishustin. This means that more than half of the microelectronics used in our country is of foreign origin.

Meanwhile, back in the 1970s, the USSR was in second place in the world for the production of these high-tech products. Even in the first half of the 2s, Russia, still taking advantage of Soviet achievements, supplied microelectronics to other countries, including China. Now it remains only to be sad about past successes.

What the state is trying to do and what areas need to be developed


The complication of relations with the West and the introduction of anti-Russian sanctions inevitably affected the import of microelectronics. The government hastily decided to rectify the situation. As usual, they started with the creation of regular programs and strategies: the Rostec state corporation, for example, has developed a special roadmap, which names 2 key areas of microelectronics development in our country - the development and creation of chips with topological norms of 65 (55) nm, 28 nm, 14 nm, and the creation of memory chips for solid-state drives in 96 layers and a 25-30 nm process technology.

But such a roadmap cannot but raise questions: while Russia is planning to develop the production of chips with 14 nm standards, such chips have been used in the iPhone for the sixth year, and modern models have 7 nm chips. Who will need Russian 2025 nm chips in 14, even if we imagine that their production will be established?


Of course, the authorities are trying to do something. Actually, there are not many measures that can be taken to revive the industry. The first is tax cuts, and the government has already taken care of this issue. Income taxes for innovative high-tech companies have been reduced from 20% to 3%. The second is financing: the state provides for the possibility of providing various financial assistance to companies working in the field of microelectronics.

The third most important component of the revival of domestic microelectronics is the solution of the personnel issue. Experts of the old Soviet school age, retire, and some out of life. The quality of training new personnel is falling. In addition, the notorious "brain drain" does not stop: talented specialists have the opportunity in other countries to earn completely different money and live at a completely different level.

The fourth problem is the technological and resource base. For example, experts talk about the existing deficit in the production of rare earth metals (REM) in Russia, without which one should not even dream of success in the field of microelectronics. The rare earth metal market is now almost completely (97%) controlled by China. Polycrystalline silicon is also imported to Russia.

If the state continues to invest in high-tech industry, ensures the restoration of the resource base and is able to reduce imports of the same rare earth metals, while not forgetting to finance technical education and pay normal salaries to employees, then chances for the restoration of microelectronics will appear. However, it will take a lot of time to catch up with the really developed countries in this area.
Author:
Photos used:
Twitter / Microelectronics: International Forum
412 comments
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  1. Dodikson
    Dodikson 26 January 2021 21: 31
    +1
    Well, once we bought chicken with wheat outside the cordon, and now we export it.
    there would be a desire.
    although sanctions from the states will interfere very much
    1. AUL
      AUL 26 January 2021 21: 39
      +22
      While it is more profitable for some people to buy products abroad than to create their own production, no government decisions will help move the situation from the current nightmare situation.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 26 January 2021 22: 02
        +29
        These cases provide a quick and understandable turnover of money. Investments in electronics are large, long-term money with an unclear profit ... and the client of the Moscow Region and the State, in general, is a dangerous client. You can be left without money and with a criminal record. Therefore, the state itself must invest money here.
        1. Avarron
          Avarron 26 January 2021 22: 52
          -9
          You can remain raped and dead like Wheat.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 26 January 2021 22: 55
            +29
            Then you have to be aware of this. Do not talk about the free market, find comrade Beria, give authority and assign a clear task. And don't change it all the time.
            1. Temples
              Temples 27 January 2021 10: 23
              -10%
              once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world

              Not once, and not when before.

              Always on the sidelines.
              They were always catching up.


              Cars - after Germans, Americans,
              Tractors - after Europe and America.
              Industrialization is the last. After all developed countries
              Airplanes - after the Europeans.
              Power Plants - After Americans and Europeans
              Rockets - after the Germans.
              Communication on airplanes - after the Germans.
              Radars - after the Germans.

              Machine tool building - never. And now there are no plans.

              Caught up.

              They bought technology and made their own, but they caught up in almost everything.

              Now we even managed to overtake it.

              But only now, in a time hated by many sectarians, did the Russians really find themselves ahead of, for example, in nuclear power.


              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 27 January 2021 11: 20
                +14
                There are plenty of examples when the catching up was overtaken. Israel, China, South Korea
                1. Alex777
                  Alex777 27 January 2021 13: 25
                  +9
                  South Korea is a good example of the landing of Presidents. wink
                  And for the development of the economy by large corporations.
                  We will never have such support from the States. hi
                  1. Temples
                    Temples 27 January 2021 18: 33
                    -3
                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    There are plenty of examples when the catching up was overtaken. Israel, China, South Korea

                    What has China overtaken those from whom it stole?
                    What have the Koreans succeeded in if, in fact, like the Chinese and other Asians, they are only working for the Americans?
                    Israel is also in the role of the performer.
                    None of the countries you listed are technology leaders. Not a technology developer.
                    They are only performers. Someone does better, someone worse. But they do not create fundamentally new things. There are no technological breakthroughs.
                    All Chinese microelectronics is based on American technology. No Chinese programming language. Put hieroglyphs at least sideways at least they are not suitable for a programming language.

                    And it is also very significant that Japan is not on your list of examples. In the seventies and eighties, you would have been laughed at. But as soon as the Japanese imagined themselves to be the leaders of progress, the Americans instantly put them in a stall.
                    The Chinese, Koreans and Jews have the same fate - they are only performers.
                    1. AUL
                      AUL 27 January 2021 19: 23
                      +9
                      Quote: Temples
                      Israel is also in the role of the performer.

                      In fact, Israel's main income comes from the sale of intellectual property and high-tech products of its own design. Calling Israel a performer is somewhat incorrect.
                      1. Usher
                        Usher 28 January 2021 01: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: AUL
                        Quote: Temples
                        Israel is also in the role of the performer.

                        In fact, Israel's main income comes from the sale of intellectual property and high-tech products of its own design. Calling Israel a performer is somewhat incorrect.

                        never heard of a technique from israel. Only weapons and then only modernization.
                      2. ironic
                        ironic 28 January 2021 22: 30
                        +3
                        If your computer is not on AMD, then there is a high probability that it is Israeli. This is the catchiest thing you can find out. Of course, you made fun of just upgrading weapons ...
                  2. savage1976
                    savage1976 28 January 2021 05: 34
                    +3
                    It is very unpleasant to read the truth, but without realizing the problem, the problem cannot be solved.
                  3. nsm1
                    nsm1 28 January 2021 15: 53
                    +4
                    Not a technology developer.
                    Chinese processes are great.
                    Huawei processor beats Intel flagship chip in performance
                    https://www.cnews.ru/news/top/2020-08-11_protsessor_huawei_oboshel_po_proizvoditelnosti
                    1. Esoteric
                      Esoteric 28 January 2021 19: 34
                      -2
                      An article by reference for those who do not understand anything at all in this area. There is a long time to talk about what is wrong with it. These are not comparable things, if simple. And what is the interesting home-made operating system? Linux kernel based? Own, yeah ...
                    2. nsm1
                      nsm1 28 January 2021 19: 48
                      +1
                      Reasonable enough.
                      Anyone in the subject can easily throw away advertising garbage.
                      "Review and FAQ of the server on Kunpeng 920, Huawei Taishan 2280 V2" - https://www.hwp.ru/articles/obzor_i_faq_servera_huawei_taishan_2280_v2_arm64_server_na_sobstvennykh_protsessorakh_kunpeng_920/
                      Kunpeng competes not even with Intel - AMD EPYC!
                      PS: axis - normal debian
                    3. Esoteric
                      Esoteric 28 January 2021 20: 07
                      -1
                      How long has debian become a Chinese development? ARM and on x86 it is very correct to compare. Maybe it's even faster than Apple's M1? Something is not specified. Apple declared the same about the smartness of its new ARM chip, only on normal resources such as "Habr" and the like on the shelves they spread this marketing nonsense.
                    4. nsm1
                      nsm1 28 January 2021 20: 12
                      +3
                      Quote: Ezoterik
                      Maybe it's even faster than Apple's M1?
                      Have you read the article?
                      M1 eight cores, and the Chinese forty eight!
                      And why is it not correct?
                      The main thing is the task!
                      Mysql it and in Africa mysql!
                      Like a radish!
                      The comparison is just what the most ordinary simple admin needs, without a degree in computational mathematics!
                2. nsm1
                  nsm1 28 January 2021 19: 58
                  +1
                  After:
                  Considering that this server has the highest degree of independence from American companies, it is an ideal solution for building a scalable infrastructure based on Kubernetes or Docker Swarm, with performance not lower than x86 / AMD64, but at the same time resistant to trade wars and sanctions.
                3. Esoteric
                  Esoteric 28 January 2021 20: 12
                  -3
                  I have seen the creations of a Chinese genius. Where he worked. We bought a Chinese machine, and this "miracle" broke down in a month. It was repaired, take it and in a week it does not want to work again, and it is permanently so.
                  Next to it is a German machine made in the 90s. Works like a clock, at least once would have refused on a large scale. And China, it is spelled China.
                4. nsm1
                  nsm1 28 January 2021 20: 15
                  +1
                  Who makes iPhones?
                  And what about xiaomi?
                  Do they break often?
        2. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 1 February 2021 09: 15
          0
          China went from execution to development and production ... Korea even earlier
  2. Nikza
    Nikza 27 January 2021 14: 04
    +5
    demagoguery is primitive and useless, but judging by the pluses, it affects the people :-)) You can ALWAYS find someone ahead of you. But there is always someone behind. But in different directions, separate. Behind the Americans, but ahead of the Germans. Behind the Germans, but ahead of the Europeans. And if you look at all at once, the USSR was ahead of everyone.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 27
      -1
      "And if you look at all at once, the USSR was ahead of everyone." Unless only in words, in terms of the component base, they began to lag behind in the 50s from the West, as in all civilian products.
  3. Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 27 January 2021 23: 13
    +1
    ... Now we even managed to overtake
    more specifically?
  4. Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 27 January 2021 23: 41
    +4
    The game is rare ...
    ... Always on the sidelines

    After Napoleon's defeat - Russia, gendarme of Europe before the Crimean War
    ... Cars - after the Germans

    Rossbalt cars are not?
    ... Aircraft - after the Europeans
    Ilya Muromets heard about this?
    The first seaplane airplane?
    The first underwater minelayer?
    Cracking of oil from Mr. Shukhov?
    Radio Popov?
    ... Rockets - after the Germans
    have you heard about Tsialkovsky?
    The first man in space after the Germans too?
    Periodic table of Mendeleev?
    Ternary computer?
    Continuous pouring of steel, have you heard?
    Demidov factories until the 18th century were the largest in Europe
    Rotary ammunition production lines that won the Second World War?
    Charcoal light bulb?
    Caps for AP shells?
    A plaster for ships?
    Genetics as a Science Created by Academician Vavilov?
    Russians have a lot to be proud of in history ...
    1. atakan
      atakan 28 January 2021 15: 09
      +3
      The game is rare ...

      ... Always on the sidelines

      He probably did not write about the championship, but about mass production.
      1. Vadim_888
        Vadim_888 28 January 2021 16: 01
        +1
        Rotary lines, continuous filling are examples of mass production hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Narak-zempo
    Narak-zempo 28 January 2021 11: 20
    +5
    Quote: Temples

    But only now, in a time hated by many sectarians, did the Russians really find themselves ahead of, for example, in nuclear power.

    Right now?
    Remind me who launched the first nuclear power plant and when?
  7. Elturisto
    Elturisto 28 January 2021 13: 55
    +1
    What about access to the Internet for Kashchenko's patients? What happened, they got to the network again ...
  8. Tatyana Pershina
    Tatyana Pershina 28 January 2021 17: 06
    -2
    You don't know the history of Russian industry at all. Also, however, like the current state. The stamps driven by propaganda are not the truth.
  • vlad106
    vlad106 31 January 2021 23: 44
    0
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Then you have to be aware of this. Do not talk about the free market, find comrade Beria, give authority and assign a clear task. And don't change it all the time.

    I'm afraid they have already written EVERYTHING ...
    semiconductor enterprises had to be revived long ago.
  • atakan
    atakan 28 January 2021 15: 22
    0
    The advanced scientific and industrial world is very briskly moving towards NEURO NETWORKS and IMPLANTS, it remains until the mass introduction of these e-mails. components of 10 - 15 years, no more, lenses have already appeared for a couple of million pixels, soon there will be neuroactivity amplifiers and additional memory chips, advertising of this goes in large quantities, which is in the press in science and fiction and on the Internet,
    So Russia will remain in the second level of technology barely creeping in there. They won't be allowed to rise higher. Happiness at least a couple of ISKINs are there and those babays - they drive terrorists on the Internet.
  • frog
    frog 1 February 2021 18: 27
    0
    Therefore, the state itself must invest money here.

    Investment alone is not enough. "Angstrem-T", for example ....
  • sniperino
    sniperino 27 January 2021 12: 19
    -4
    Quote: AUL
    While it is more profitable for some people to buy products abroad than to create their own production, no government decisions will help move the situation from the current nightmare situation.
    For some reason, you are confident that benefit seekers will be able to block the implementation of government decisions. If in 2024 nothing changes dramatically in the policy of the Russian Federation, then it is unlikely.
    1. AUL
      AUL 27 January 2021 14: 07
      +8
      Quote: sniperino
      For some reason, you are confident that benefit seekers will be able to block the implementation of government decisions.

      Yes I am sure. And there are plenty of examples of this! So far, many decisions of the government go into oblivion quietly, like water in sand, if they interfere with someone from the really powerful or are simply not interested. They are not canceled, but they are not performed either. After all, the main thing for us is not to fulfill, the main thing is to report!
      1. sniperino
        sniperino 27 January 2021 14: 12
        0
        Quote: AUL
        And there are plenty of examples of this!
        You can bring at least one that would not depend on sanctions, which undoubtedly delayed the implementation of a number of decisions, but only on demand. Considering that, today's decisions are already being made in full confidence that there will be sanctions.
  • zenion
    zenion 27 January 2021 15: 39
    0
    Some have very sticky hands. Money passing through the hands is glued and peeled off in case of being driven over the cordon. Otherwise, not at all. I knew one town where there was a very clean city and very clean water and a very savvy population. When everything in the town was handed over to scrap metal, and the colored ones were driven out of the cordon, then the former hard workers learned that they did everything for the Cosmos. All were covered with gold and a composition that was not afraid of radiation.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 24
    -3
    There is no nightmare situation in Russia there are 3000 offices working on the creation of software for radioelectronics microelectronics, and new directions of spin electronics and photonics have appeared
    Recently - "Scientists of the National Research Center" Kurchatov Institute "as part of a research group received promising material for the creation of self-learning neuromorphic computing systems. Their energy efficiency exceeds traditional computers by several orders of magnitude.

    The new material, manufactured using the original technology, has all the necessary characteristics to simulate the neural contacts of a biosimilar computing system. On its basis, a prototype of a self-learning robotic device was created.
    According to the scientist, these technologies open up tremendous opportunities for solving various cognitive tasks, such as text and speech processing, pattern recognition, and decision making.

    The new material is a layered structure of lithium niobate with the inclusion of metal nanocrystals. It was made by sequential deposition of thin films by ion-beam deposition. The researchers found that the concentration of metallic nanocrystals in a material has a significant effect on its properties. By varying the composition of thin films, they were able to select “ideal” parameters at which the nanocomposite demonstrates the best characteristics.

    The material developed by the scientists mimics artificial neural contacts much more accurately than traditional metal oxide semiconductors. The reason for this is the mechanisms by which this nanocomposite functions in a neuromorphic device. As in a living system, signal processing here has an analog character, and the change in the strength of the connection between artificial neurons is carried out by changing the concentration and diffusion of ions.

    A distinctive feature of the new material is that the neuromorphic system created on its basis is capable of imitating the "plasticity" property of the brain. So, in a living organism, dopamine can regulate the strength of interaction between neurons, and in a new device, artificial neurotransmitters play this role.

    The advantage of such a system is that the learning process does not require the presence of a "teacher". The device adjusts itself by interacting with the environment, which is the source of the so-called "rewards" and "punishments".

    Based on the new nanocomposite, scientists have created arrays of memristors and constructed prototypes of neuromorphic systems. Pilot tests have shown that such biosimilar devices are able to "adapt" to different initial conditions. This opens up prospects for the creation of large neuromorphic systems with the ability to self-learn.

    Specialists from the National Research Center "Kurchatov Institute" and the Voronezh State Technical University took part in the work.
    “But such a roadmap cannot but raise questions: while Russia is planning to develop the production of chips with 14 nm standards, such chips have been used in the iPhone for the sixth year, and modern models have 7 nm chips. Who will need Russian 2025 nm chips in 14 For them, the same military and government structures, in the first place, do all this - and the sales market for civilian microprocessor electronics has long been crammed with foreign manufacturers.
  • ironic
    ironic 26 January 2021 21: 41
    +11
    Growing wheat is not a crystal to grow. They knew how to do the first in Russia even under the tsar. But the second, at the appropriate level of their time, did not know how to do it at all.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 26 January 2021 22: 10
      -4
      we didn't even know how to make an atomic bonbo. one is now the leaders of the nuclear field.
      so here. our school for the creation of computers was no worse than the state school. there were ideas and worse than those of the states, such as the ternary system, all these Internet, social networks, online banking, government services were invented in the 60-70s.
      but someone at the highest level cut all this by giving our sphere to mattress architecture and software.
      so we can do a lot. the main thing is that they do not harm us.
      1. ironic
        ironic 26 January 2021 22: 29
        -12%
        Well, the way it was done, this also does not speak too much about great successes in comparison with ... There is no need for a computer school, especially about what the ES computer was. The ternary system of logic in the States was already in full swing in 68, but where was it in the USSR? Huh? Yeah, the Internet came up with you ... yapatstal. And Ivan the Terrible came up with an x-ray, because he saw the boyars through his mouth through and through, as in a joke. I wonder where this nonsense is being promoted? This is how to be illiterate and influenced.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 26 January 2021 22: 37
          +4
          darkness.
          You are far from computers, otherwise you would not have been carrying such nonsense without knowing the history of our Motherland.
          read something at least about OGAS.
          Well, at the same time, read what Setun is and what year it was made, maybe then you will stop pushing us bullshit about what the Americans invented and did.
          1. ironic
            ironic 27 January 2021 17: 30
            +3
            Yes, of course, in my second year I already worked part-time in the computing center of the Polytechnic University, and of course I know absolutely nothing about computers, heading the software of a small company. Well, how, where is Kitov and where is reality? What was in the Computing Center of such institutes as Giproshakhta, Giprostal, Tyazhpromelektroporoekt? Oh, there were 30 experimental ternary computers all over the country? It's like there were Jews in the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union ... But the States still put the whole world on IBM 360/370 and the Internet created a real one, and by the end of the 60s they had a triple logic on a stream that the USSR could not dream of. So yes, the USSR still knew how to shove bullshit, where it was necessary to show the Stakhanov slaughter.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 27 January 2021 21: 16
              -3
              from the fact that in your second year you washed the floors in the Polytechnic Exhibition Center, nothing says that you understand computers.
              You don't even know the history of what you supposedly understand.
              and continue to lie to us here.
              1. ironic
                ironic 27 January 2021 22: 37
                +2
                No, you washed the floors while people like me were working on the code. I, by the way, received the 2nd (out of three places) faculty prize for the first course work in electrical engineering at the faculty, completely done on a computer. It is you who continue to lie here twice about the ancient and isolated achievements that have always been ("Kulibins" have not been translated in Russia, they still exist), as about project successes, which were not even lying that I was lying.
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 27 January 2021 22: 42
                  -5
                  and I have a xep 80 centimeters.
                  if you lie then lie to the fullest.
                  1. ironic
                    ironic 27 January 2021 22: 47
                    +2
                    Congratulations, you have just deprived yourself of the success of the project in terms of relations with most of the gentiles. That's why it's bad to lie. The project manager of you is useless.
                    1. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 27 January 2021 22: 48
                      -4
                      yes, I am the same manager as you are it specialist.
                      that is, none.
                    2. ironic
                      ironic 27 January 2021 22: 54
                      0
                      You and it are no specialist, but what I am, this earnings from the project that I am leading will prove. Investors can only be fooled once. Including yours. The rest is talk for the benefit of the poor.
                    3. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 27 January 2021 23: 25
                      -5
                      Yes, I know, the Internet is like that, every woodpecker can tell from it that he is an academician and he gets a lot of bugs.
                      I've seen starballs, but people like you are rare.
                      but I still remind you - you are a Russophobe.
                    4. ironic
                      ironic 28 January 2021 13: 05
                      -1
                      In my pocket or in my head, your astrological delight will not diminish. You won't earn that much, I already understood that, and it is not good to envy. And I can answer you only one thing, you are a zombie fool.
                  2. Usher
                    Usher 28 January 2021 01: 44
                    +2
                    Quote: ironic
                    You and it are no specialist, but what I am, this earnings from the project that I am leading will prove. Investors can only be fooled once. Including yours. The rest is talk for the benefit of the poor.

                    in essence can you say something? Or offtopic only?
                  3. ironic
                    ironic 28 January 2021 13: 07
                    0
                    You write this to your opponent, he is already tired of his flood and wishful thinking.
  • UserGun
    UserGun 27 January 2021 08: 08
    -5
    Quote: ironic
    I wonder where this nonsense is being promoted? This is how to be illiterate and influenced.


    That's what, what, and in propaganda, the current regime has overtaken everyone, including the USSR, in a rapid leap and a single blow))) Even Goebbels stands aside and nervously smokes, looking at such shameless propaganda.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 26 January 2021 22: 43
    0
    Quote: Dodikson
    All these Internet, social networks, online banking, government services were invented in our country in the 60s and 70s.


    Coming up is a simple matter. Scientists have long thought of everything.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 26 January 2021 23: 05
      -2
      master to enter in Yandex or Google a complex "word" OGAS?
      1. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 26 January 2021 23: 14
        +2
        Can you master it? If not, I'll quote you:

        system design


        The activity to promote the idea of ​​creating the OGAS system in the USSR of almost all of its supporters began to fade clearly after the death of Viktor Mikhailovich Glushkov on January 30, 1982


        And so - I know who Keldysh, Glushkov and Kantorovich are.

        By the way, about entering words into Google: enter the word "Cybersyn" there
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 27 January 2021 07: 15
          -4
          so it began to dawn on you that all that I described was not the writer's fantasies, but real projects that they tried to implement and could have been implemented if the country had not moved on to other rails.
          and we had it invented long before we came up with it.
          in fact, they slammed these ideas here.
          1. UserGun
            UserGun 27 January 2021 08: 09
            +2
            Quote: Dodikson
            real projects


            So what was their "reality" ?!
            1. dauria
              dauria 27 January 2021 10: 19
              +4
              So what was their "reality" ?!

              Do not argue. To do this, it is necessary that a person really represent the element base starting at least from the 80th year. And convulsive attempts to at least keep up, to make an analogue of the series, albeit with its own markings. And to see how, under Gorbach, they "hammered" even to copy part of the microcircuits.
              But now there is an awesome plus - no need to delve into the tables of analogs, all the same, all the same, import and "datasheet" in English (or in Chinese laughing )
              They, bastards, even translate into Russian themselves, just buy.
              1. UserGun
                UserGun 27 January 2021 11: 32
                -4
                Clear. So we will write down that in real life there was nothing.

                We have such devices, but we will not show them to you (c) Mango-mango
                1. dauria
                  dauria 27 January 2021 11: 41
                  +9
                  ... So we will write down that in real life there was nothing.

                  Why wasn't there? It was. And quite at the world level in the military. I'll make a reservation - until the 85th year.
                  One "Zaslon" radar station on the MiG-31 deserves respect. The world's first aircraft HEADLIGHT. Yes, and S-23MLA, and R-23r and X-29 (L and T). At least the entire complex of the Su-24 REO - in fact, this is a very high world standard. I write only the area with which I am familiar. Stretched, did. In some places they were inferior, in some places they were overtaken. It was. Before Gorbachev. Further - by inertia
                  down to a full ass.
                2. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 11: 55
                  0
                  Quote: dauria
                  One "Zaslon" radar station on the MiG-31 deserves respect. The world's first aircraft HEADLIGHT.


                  There was already this dispute. She is not the first aircraft - the B-1 was equipped with a PAR. The screen can be called the first phased array on a fighter (with some stretch).
                3. dauria
                  dauria 27 January 2021 12: 02
                  +4
                  on the B-1 there was a PAR.

                  laughing Okay. I'll put it differently. The world's first FPS radar with fully electronic scanning in azimuth and elevation. Without any exaggeration. The Yankees at that time had a mixed - a ruler in azimuth and a mechanic in elevation. Is that better?
                4. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 12: 04
                  +2
                  I would be just fine with "the first phased array on a fighter."

                  Although, out of pure harm, I will say that the fighter was an interceptor, which then no one, except the Union, did.
                5. The comment was deleted.
                6. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 02: 12
                  +2
                  So try turning your head on if you can. Start by comparing the size and weight of the MiG-31 to the average MFI of the day.
        2. UserGun
          UserGun 27 January 2021 12: 20
          -1
          I actually wrote about your post above)

          Quote: Dodikson
          darkness.
          You are far from computers, otherwise you would not have been carrying such nonsense without knowing the history of our Motherland.
          read something at least about OGAS.
          Well, at the same time, read what Setun is and what year it was made, maybe then you will stop pushing us bullshit about what the Americans invented and did.


          IT (pronounced ay-ti, short for Information Technology) - information technology.

          It is not by chance that I wrote about it))) I wonder how, especially when the Motherland follows the word))) I just wondered what you were trying to prove by jumping out of your sneakers, alternating English text, English words with Motherland ?! And in the end, the abbreviation OGAS remained virtual, like the smoke of a cigarette, but with the abbreviation it, even you trump in vain)))
    2. Dodikson
      Dodikson 27 January 2021 21: 21
      -6
      I know perfectly well about the problems of electronics in the USSR and about the release of suitable chips and about the difficulties in design.
      but that was after our country took the American path.
      and this, to blame the lack of software due to hardware problems, is of course powerful.
      there was a project. and this is primarily an idea. and the idea is essentially more important than implementation, because only one or two people can come up with, and many can implement. but in the USSR it was not allowed to realize.
    3. nsm1
      nsm1 28 January 2021 16: 00
      +3
      Quote: dauria
      And convulsive attempts to at least keep up, to make an analogue of the series, albeit with its own markings.
      Was familiar with the person involved in copying 8048
      They just hounded, they didn’t take off their masks in Czechoslovakia.
      Hard work.
      "Was" because a man in years was already ...
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 11: 05
    +1
    These were unrealized projects. Which are essentially no better than fantasy. And even these fantasies were "there" too.
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 27 January 2021 11: 44
      +2
      Quote: Eye of the Crying
      These were unrealized projects.


      That's where we had to start. Or rather, do not even try to flaunt about "real" projects.
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 27 January 2021 14: 43
        0
        This is not to say that the USSR could not do anything, here is information from Wikipedia: "1959, under the leadership of N.P. Brusentsov (Moscow State University Computer Center), the first serial ternary Computer "Setun". From 1962 to 1964, the Kazan Plant of Mathematical Machines produced 46 Setun computers [12]. "
        1. ironic
          ironic 27 January 2021 17: 37
          -2
          But in reality there are 30 experimental batch of cars all over the country, and by the end of the 60s the States had streaming production.
        2. Dodikson
          Dodikson 27 January 2021 21: 24
          -1
          what ternary computers were mass-produced in the states?
          And how funny, at a time when computers were produced piece by piece, 30 pieces are not mass production.
          Monsieur, you are a banal Russophobe who hates everything Russian.
        3. ironic
          ironic 27 January 2021 22: 25
          0
          Where were the computers produced by piece? IN THE USSR? Well, yes, more than a piece, that's for sure.
          No computer with ternary logic was mass-produced and Setun is not a series, these are tears, which were limited to these tears
          ... And the ternary element base in the States has been produced in full since that period that I named. The States themselves have built a ternary emulator, and the Canadians have built only a ternary computer.
          You write some platitudes and nonsense, I work with Russian investors in one project. Israel and Russia have set the task of bringing the turnover to 6 lard per year. What's in the ass Russophobia? I say what I think about the state of what I have encountered and what I understand. In the end, the entire Union sat on IBM and did not buzz.
        4. Dodikson
          Dodikson 27 January 2021 22: 46
          -2
          once again for especially "gifted" - WHAT TRINITY COMPUTER IS SERINO RELEASED IN THE USA?
          I am aware of the ternary modules for binary computers released by the piece.
          also aware that they were released 20 years after the USSR had completely ternary computers.
          and by the way, I don’t know what award, besides the Darwin award, can be given to a character for whom 30 (although in general it is 46) are not serial but experimental computers, and a couple of modules for ordinary computers is a mass introduction.
          as I wrote about 80 centimeters, if you lie then lie to the fullest.
          so lie about the success of the United States to the maximum, the lemings will lead.
        5. ironic
          ironic 27 January 2021 23: 01
          -1
          No, you have one esperomental pariah, one ternary emulator in the States and one in Canada. No electronic products in the States are produced by pieces, only streaming. You cannot be given a Darwin Award, you even need to earn it, and 80 centimeters is not a primate even in terms of sarcasm. 30 computers for Soyuz is an experimental batch, especially since the case ended up with IBM anyway.
        6. Dodikson
          Dodikson 27 January 2021 23: 33
          -2
          Of course, the super expert on cleaning floors at the Polytechnic University turned out to be a banal starball as expected.
          he was broadcasting about the ternary logic widely put on the stream in the states, about the fact that the ternary base was produced in the states all over, but it turned out that the states had .... "one ternary emulator in the states"
          and one whole computer in Canada. and therefore they are leaders in ternary logic, and not the USSR in which only 20 years before the states released some kind of insignificant 46 ternary computers, moreover, in the 50s, when the number of computers was small, because it was NOT a PC.
          xs it is true that then the series were not experimental, if 46 pieces it was an experiment, and only a small 46 computers against a whole one ternary emulator.
          Yes, that's how they got the Russians done. already built a whole emulator.
          and after that he is lying here that he is not a Russophobe, but iksperd, a super mosque and a winner of a bunch of awards for computers.
          Well, judging by the way he describes the electronics of the USSR, the award was given to him for a well-washed floor, because in electronics, something of his work is imperceptible.
        7. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 02: 49
          +1
          Quote: Dodikson
          he talked about the widely put on the stream ternary logic in the states


          Didn't broadcast. Read carefully.
        8. ironic
          ironic 28 January 2021 13: 13
          +2
          Well, you turned out to be a fluderast and a starbreaker. They gave out an experimental batch for industrial production, which did not receive further development. Merged on the topic that the entire Union ended up on IBM products. An expert like you is not even worthy of the job of cleaning floors. You are also a typical postreot, exactly as it is written. There are only enemies around, if our free fatherland is not singing glory ... Excessive zombie and stupidity. You can continue to flood.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Dodikson
        Dodikson 28 January 2021 02: 50
        -4
        no, in Western values ​​men do not hammer into the brain, because only a woman can hammer a man's brain, and it was not she who hammered it.
        that is why he is a Russophobe who constantly shits on everything Russian, because we have a kind of homophobic country.
      4. ironic
        ironic 28 January 2021 13: 16
        +2
        Lying is bad. I support the Russian law banning advertising of non-traditional sexual orientations, but you could not know my opinion about this, since I have not expressed it here yet. You are also a trivial liar, except that the zombie poztreo, with his stupid poztreotizm only harms his own country.
  • KCA
    KCA 28 January 2021 05: 02
    +1
    I don’t remember in what year the head of IBM said the following - I believe that five computers will be enough for the whole world (according to our computer), it turns out that five are large-scale production, if there was enough for the whole world
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 12: 32
    0
    Quote: KCA
    I do not remember in what year the head of IBM said the following - I believe that five computers will be enough for the whole world


    Legend has it that he said this in 1943. And here's what he said in reality (and in 1953): "as a result of our trip, on which we expected to get orders for five machines, we came home with orders for 18".
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 02: 48
    -3
    Quote: Dodikson
    what ternary computers were mass-produced in the states?


    Why should we produce exactly ternary machines? Now they are stupidly gone. And nobody misses them.
  • Andrey sh
    Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 43
    +1
    And now there are analog, tube and relay computers? WHERE?
  • ironic
    ironic 28 January 2021 13: 23
    +3
    Because today it is not justified, in view of the focus on research in the field of quantum computers.
  • 210ox
    210ox 26 January 2021 23: 07
    +6
    We didn't harm .... We often harm ourselves. And the examples that you gave (chicken is generally fireworks. By the way, and whose food?) Belong to a more developed civilization. Who was taken away.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 26 January 2021 23: 09
      -1
      Siberia has its own food. as for computers, it was implemented.
      more than once they discussed that by someone's evil will in the 60s in the USSR they curtailed all their developments by force and gave the order to switch to Western architecture and software. so all that after the 70s in the USSR was pdp and niks clones. the only breakthrough was Elbrus.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 38
        0
        We decided to bring it under the standard - ours under IBM is shorter than the typical for that time "Let's do it like the Americans"
      2. Andrey sh
        Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 44
        +1
        And the meaning of consumer goods to develop themselves? The Chinese still do this - they copy consumer goods. And it is right.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 18
          0
          Actually, the lion's share of clothing brands are produced in Cambodia and Vietnam.
      3. ironic
        ironic 28 January 2021 13: 31
        0
        Yes, yes, it was all its own and at its best, and IBM360 was maliciously imposed ... Well, it's just not comprehensible to the mind how one should believe in nonsense.
    2. Svarog
      Svarog 26 January 2021 23: 38
      +11
      Quote: 210ox
      We didn't harm .... We often harm ourselves. And the examples that you gave (chicken is generally fireworks. By the way, and whose food?) Belong to a more developed civilization. Who was taken away.

      Feed, equipment ... and oh god ... we are buying broiler eggs .. this year a serious increase in the price of chicken is expected ... actually it is already growing
      1. aleksejkabanets
        aleksejkabanets 26 January 2021 23: 54
        +10
        hi
        Quote: Svarog
        actually it is already growing

        My region has grown since December by about 20%.
      2. Squelcher
        Squelcher 27 January 2021 01: 24
        -12%
        Thank you, mister communist amused, prices are constantly growing.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 27 January 2021 14: 46
          +5
          Since our prices are growing, this is a complete mess. Today I bought pink salmon in my ear, I almost went nuts, it has doubled in price compared to last year.
          1. Squelcher
            Squelcher 28 January 2021 05: 56
            -5
            Yes, are you surprised? After the return of Crimea, the West is openly waging an economic war, the main task is to remove the government with an independent policy; it is easier to remove the GDP, another country would have given up its legs long ago. Russia is fighting hard, but fighting, only now the communist gentlemen are ready to help the enemy, together with the oval one, just to overthrow the power. Oval though does not hide it, in contrast to the communist gentlemen.
            1. Andrey sh
              Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 45
              +6
              Yeah - that's why the S-400 was sold to Turkey and China. For this you need to put against the wall ...
              1. Squelcher
                Squelcher 28 January 2021 11: 14
                -3
                Late USSR 38 percent of world arms exports, while many supplies for almost nothing, it is enough for any cannibal in Africa to declare that he is building communism. According to your logic, communists should be shot from a cannon? I never thought that the adherents of the communists were so degraded ...
                1. Andrey sh
                  Andrey sh 28 January 2021 13: 28
                  +3
                  Modern systems which were lacking in your army? What systems did the USSR export for export?
                2. Squelcher
                  Squelcher 28 January 2021 15: 33
                  +1
                  S400 was not enough, but now is there enough in the RF Armed Forces?
                  Where did you get the money for the development of the C500? Do retirees or foreign C400 contracts? What systems did the USSR supply to the Warsaw bloc (most of them fought on the side of Nazi Germany during the Second World War) probably the oldest and antediluvian, do you think?
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 39
      -3
      Market economy - exports and imports we buy from them, they are from us.
  • sniperino
    sniperino 27 January 2021 12: 26
    -2
    Quote: Dodikson
    now nuclear leaders
    By the way, thanks in large part to Kirienko's leadership of Rosatom. If he copes with the program for the development of a personnel management reserve, then we will show them Kuzka's mother.
  • AUL
    AUL 27 January 2021 19: 29
    +4
    Quote: Dodikson
    our school for the creation of computers was no worse than the state school. had ideas and worse than the states, such as the ternary system

    The ternary system in computing was a dead-end branch. Apart from the experimental computer "Strela" was not used anywhere else.
  • Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 27 January 2021 03: 05
    +2
    Come on, until 2014 they also shouted that it is very difficult nowadays and it is impossible to get in there, because it is "very technologically advanced", the climate is not the same and we cannot withstand competition with the West at all ... him ... The same thing is sung about electronics with bulging eyes - "difficult and not cost-effective" ... But why is the West doing this, if so? Maybe these words are more just about "billions of dollars in R&D costs"? Who actually tested this? All this is from the words of manufacturers and some "experts" who are interested in making a profit and the absence of competitors ... Who will tell you anything and even "help" with advice in development!
    We have to check and do it ourselves, and at the same time gain our experience and implement our solutions.
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 27 January 2021 12: 30
      -3
      Quote: Cottodraton
      Why is the West doing this, if so?


      Because it is PROFITABLE, there, as you say, in the "west". Only not in this country, that's why they tell you that in this country, with this mode:

      Quote: Cottodraton
      "difficult and not cost-effective"
  • zenion
    zenion 27 January 2021 15: 41
    0
    And in some there were accelerators, which from one element made others necessary to fulfill the order.
  • Cron
    Cron 26 January 2021 21: 45
    +2
    Quote: Dodikson
    Well, once we bought chicken with wheat outside the cordon, and now we export it.
    there would be a desire.

    Well, you compared)) It's like it's not quite the same thing:
    import substitution in the field of microelectronics
    1. Cron
      Cron 26 January 2021 21: 58
      -1
      Who is interested in learning in a more accessible language what is there and where, and what are the real chances:
    2. Dodikson
      Dodikson 26 January 2021 22: 11
      -7
      when there are constant sabotage against you, then even repairing the bakery is already a great achievement.
      but it is a gigantic labor to put whole industries on their feet.
      and if they were able to do it, then everything is fine with the head and with the ability to work.
      there would be a desire.
      1. ironic
        ironic 26 January 2021 22: 34
        -3
        Not all that is possible is needed.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 26 January 2021 23: 11
        +9
        By the way, about the bakery. There is an enterprise in Smolensk called "Baker". So they put a new oven not so long ago. The truth is not ours, Czech. Although we have our own manufacturer. I repeat, they do not harm us. And we ourselves ... Of course, we are not cogs, but who are higher.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 26 January 2021 23: 12
          -4
          the fact that there are those who like to cut through the purchases of foreign is far from news.
          but in the 60s it was pests that lost our electronics.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 43
            +3
            Private traders buy - they won't be able to cut themselves.
          2. Andrey sh
            Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 47
            0
            In the 60s, electronics developed and how. And in the early 70s ...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 20
              -1
              It was developing - only the west went ahead in it.
          3. zenion
            zenion 29 January 2021 18: 04
            0
            Dodik. I was in Chernivtsi at one electronics factory. Everything behind glass and sterile. Of course, I did not go inside the workshop, I had to change clothes, as in surgery, but I looked outside. And microelectronics began to develop after the 60s. Until the 60s, everything for the army was done on microlamps. Do not be afraid of the atom lamp. Everything on microcircuits for the army in lead, for household use in plastic. It was also such that some of the microcircuits were sold for the cordon.
  • boriz
    boriz 26 January 2021 22: 00
    +7
    You just have no idea what it will cost to train specialists for the production of chips.
    Production was destroyed back in the 90s, no one was involved in the training of new specialists, therefore the training of specialists was destroyed. There are no old specialists, no one to train new ones. And the nomenclature of specialists is great. Preparation takes many years.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 26 January 2021 22: 13
      +5
      I can imagine. I am aware that only one private sharaga. just for one technical process can give up to 30 billion dollars.
      but also the exhaust from them is much more than 30 billion.
      the Chinese also did not know how to make weapons. they didn't even know how to clone ours. and now the second player in the arms market and overtook us in what they learned from us.
      1. boriz
        boriz 27 January 2021 01: 59
        +9
        There are several points here.
        Since the 80s, the United States has been pumping China with technology and money, creating an anti-USSR and a workshop for itself (on its own head).
        Nobody will give or sell these technologies to us now.
        Speaking about personnel training, I didn't mean money. Until the mid-90s, I worked as the head of the chip production shop. Therefore, I am very well aware of this problem. Money, of course, is needed, but time cannot be replaced with money. Specialists have been raised for years. And now we have no one to even grow them.
        The equipment is too complex and specific. Such specialists cannot be pulled out from other industries. They are not.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 27 January 2021 02: 57
          -1
          that's why I wrote - that under the USSR, under the USSR this means a very long time, China could not even clone a normal weapon. but now the second player in the arms market.
          I kind of wrote that if you want, then everything will be. yes not right away, but it will be.
          in South Korea, too, it was not so simple. but they did, on semiconductors, they have already done China for a long time.
          the problem is essentially only that no one will sell us the technology, the same ASML mattresses will strangle like a boa constrictor a hare as soon as they see one intention to sell us something.
          but we must look for ways. lying on the stove can't even make pancakes, let alone chips.
          1. boriz
            boriz 29 January 2021 19: 19
            0
            "... in South Korea, too, it was not so easy. but they did, ..."
            Do you think the Koreans did everything themselves? All the same. The Americans were the first to pump up Japan with technology. The Koreans took it later, either from the Japanese, or also from the Americans.
        2. ccsr
          ccsr 27 January 2021 13: 29
          -1
          Quote: boriz
          Nobody will give or sell these technologies to us now.

          Absolutely true, and even if we get hold of them, we will not be allowed to sell anything on the world market. And our domestic market is not so huge that we can at least come out to justify the costs.
          Quote: boriz
          Speaking about personnel training, I didn't mean money.

          Money is not the main thing here - it's true. We need people and equipment, and this is the main problem.
          Quote: boriz
          Until the mid-90s, I worked as the head of the chip production shop.

          I only remember that in the eighties Zelenograd simply could not cope with the volume of orders - there were so many of them that there was a queue of customers. Now everything is destroyed, I don't think we will be able to reach that scale.
          Quote: boriz
          Such specialists cannot be pulled out from other industries. They are not.

          This is exactly how it is. Even in some structures of the Soviet period, where microelectronics were manufactured for their own needs, these people were worth their weight in gold, as was the equipment for these workshops. So we will not solve this problem quickly, but I would like to understand how relevant these developments are for the industry, of course, excluding the military sector, there is a different approach and it is justified by our security.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 44
        0
        But the quality of this weapon raises questions.
    2. zenion
      zenion 29 January 2021 18: 06
      0
      Not only are there no specialists, but all the machine tools for production were stolen. The devices were sold in bazaars.
    3. zenion
      zenion 30 January 2021 21: 48
      0
      boriz. And Lenin is to blame for this, who planted a bomb under the union. Yeltsin and Marked have absolutely nothing to do with it.
  • bar
    bar 26 January 2021 22: 01
    +11
    Quote: Dodikson
    well, sometimes we bought chicken with wheat outside the cordon

    And now we buy seeds there for planting wheat and equipment for its processing. And chicken is no better.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 26 January 2021 22: 11
    +3
    That's right, we export the highest grade of wheat, and the people of the 4th grade will go
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 26 January 2021 22: 15
      -10%
      do we grow only the highest grade?
      By the way, tell us who how and when brings millions of chicken chicks to us every month?
      1. Lannan Shi
        Lannan Shi 26 January 2021 22: 56
        +11
        Quote: Dodikson
        By the way, tell us who how and when brings millions of chicken chicks to us every month?

        Aviagen Brands and Cobb-Vantress. And on the issues of delivery times and logistics, ask them.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 26 January 2021 23: 06
          -11%
          the person who has been working at the factory for 7 years has not heard of Aviagen Brands or Cobb-Vantress. the factory is still working.
          it turns out strange.
          1. Lannan Shi
            Lannan Shi 26 January 2021 23: 16
            +11
            Quote: Dodikson
            the person who has been working at the factory for 7 years has not heard of Aviagen Brands or Cobb-Vantress

            Well, the janitor of the Moscow office, at my former job, probably didn’t hear about Wirtgen either. That did not prevent all 7 recyclers from working hard.
            Quote: Dodikson
            it turns out strange.

            Then yes. And it's really strange. The Ministry of Agriculture provides information, but does not report to the poultry houses from Mukhozasizhensk. A flaw, however. The minister will be fired tomorrow, early in the morning. yes
          2. Andrey sh
            Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 50
            +1
            Who needs your factory from serious suppliers? They ship hatching eggs by the millions. How many livestock did you have? 30-50 thousand carcasses? So, at most, after 3-5 hands, an egg fell into your hands and, apart from the boo and the director, no one knew where ...
      2. 210ox
        210ox 26 January 2021 23: 14
        -2
        Tell us how these chicks are fed. There is clearly not a Russian product.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 26 January 2021 23: 17
          -3
          in my city at the poultry farm and feed and chicks are local.
          how do I know? 7-8 years ago, our district arranged business training for young businesses, and there I talked with a person who in our northern region (Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug) made a business of fodder for cows and chickens. and his clients were our farmers and a dairy factory, as well as a poultry farm, and through him I also communicated with the technologist of the poultry farm, because I was interested in the question of why a kilo of chicken is cheaper than a kilogram of cheese.
          and from there I learned that we have our own food and chicks. imported were vitamin complexes and vaccinations.
          1. aleksejkabanets
            aleksejkabanets 27 January 2021 00: 22
            +10
            Quote: Dodikson
            in my city at the poultry farm and feed and chicks are local.

            Poultry meat farming? If so, then the first generation is not grown in Russia. If you have other information, I would be grateful for a link to the one who grows the first generation of meat crosses of chickens in Russia.
            Quote: Dodikson
            and from there I learned that we have our own food and chicks. imported were vitamin complexes and vaccinations.

            Vitamin complexes and premixes (micro and macronutrients) are the most important part of the diet, without them feed cannot be properly absorbed. And the grain is clear that it's own. I don’t know who makes domestic premixes for chickens, they didn’t do it a few years ago. And the same I will be grateful for the link.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 27 January 2021 01: 19
              -2
              if I meet that person again, I will ask how things are now and ask him for additional information. materials.
              1. Vladimir Rostovsky
                Vladimir Rostovsky 27 January 2021 09: 34
                +2
                By the way, tell us who how and when brings millions of chicken chicks to us every month?

                Breeding material - hatching eggs and day-old chicks - is supplied to Russia by two transnational companies - German Aviagen Brands and American Cobb-Vantress. To form the breeding stock of poultry alone, these companies import 6 million day old chicks and 400 million hatching eggs into Russia every year. In total, Aviagen Brands and Cobb-Vantress sell about 21 million head of parent birds in Russia, which meets 100% of the broiler poultry market demand.
                In 2018, Russia imported about 600 million pieces of hatching eggs, and by the end of 2019, 1 billion pieces may already be imported.
                According to Cherkizovo's estimates, in 2019 domestic broiler production will depend on imports by only 25%.
                Read more at RBC:
                https://www.rbc.ru/business/01/08/2019/5d4165579a79477f334eabdb
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 27 January 2021 09: 36
                  -4
                  I read it, it also says that it is 90% chicken, and 10% is local.
              2. Andrey sh
                Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 54
                +2
                And why clarify that - a relative at a company that sells imported additives. 70 items, purely biological 4-5 items, the rest is chemistry. They buy from them in tons of poultry farms as far as the Urals from Moscow. And so are additives for boars and poultry and cattle. Try to buy a high-quality broiler egg in the Russian Federation at retail - fuck you. Import and not frail volumes ... There is a usual, and even then not a lot.
  • janeck
    janeck 26 January 2021 22: 56
    +11
    on all changes in the economy. political will is needed. let it be weak progress .. but still progress. and that's better than stagnation.
    1. zenion
      zenion 29 January 2021 18: 12
      0
      Let it be a crazy idea, do not cut it in the heat of the moment, answer us rather through the reptile head physician. If you don’t respond, people will write to the sport lotto. V. Vysotsky.
  • Jacket in stock
    Jacket in stock 27 January 2021 05: 49
    -1
    Quote: Dodikson
    well, sometimes we bought chicken with wheat outside the cordon

    Ага.
    And we still import chickens and mixed feed.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 January 2021 18: 53
      -2
      And why not import them - we have that the borders for import are closed?
  • parusnik
    parusnik 27 January 2021 06: 35
    +2
    well, once we bought chicken with wheat outside the cordon, and now we export
    .Surely, we will buy super-modern chips, throw them into the ground, and they will sprout and give a crop in the form of ears with chips of the 30th generation. laughing
  • Titsen
    Titsen 27 January 2021 07: 18
    +1
    Quote: Dodikson
    we used to buy chicken and wheat outside the cordon, and now we export it.


    The chicken grows by itself, and besides, on foreign food!
    If we compare microelectronics in simple terms, it’s better with hockey and football: wild commerce destroyed schools - this is the result, or rather its complete absence!
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 27 January 2021 23: 10
    +2
    Good luck in such endeavors, at least approaching what is in the world, in the complete absence of equipment and the possibility of acquiring it, the task from the category of utopian turns into completely unreal, since 2000, the production of the element base was killed in the bud, in the middle of 2000 it was bought equipment for the company micron, for the production of tickets for the subway, and then with a scandal through the French in Japan, this equipment was bought,
    And you mean import substitution ...
  • Andrey sh
    Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 40
    +2
    Yeah - scattered. Whose hatching egg is produced? 90% are imports. WHAT kind of wheat do we export? Low classes, which has always been much more productive. If it is so great with wheat, why did they get permission to produce bread from grain 5th! categories instead of 3rd? And how much REST grain does Russia produce? For example corn, barley, rice? And this is not even an ass, even worse ...
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 26 January 2021 21: 41
    +3
    China controls the market for rare earth bo and has rich deposits in the Hindu Kush and Tibet mountains. The same deposits continue in the Pamir Mountains, and the Chinese climbed behind them (and not only) into Tajikistan. In Russia, there is no such number of deposits physically, so yes, I will have to buy rare earths and nothing can be done about it (But there is oil in Russia)

    What I didn't understand Russia does not produce mono- or poly-crystalline silicon? The text talks about poly-, but as far as I understand, microelectronics needs mono-
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 26 January 2021 22: 40
      +5
      To get "mono", you need to have "poly", and Russia does not produce polycrystalline silicon.
      1. Svetlana
        Svetlana 26 January 2021 22: 52
        +2
        Ah .. got it. Thank you! Poly is the raw material for Mono.
        ..
        Got it and got into the search .. In Russia, all the same, there is a production of both poly and monocrystalline silicon .. What did the author want to say?
        1. Undecim
          Undecim 26 January 2021 22: 54
          +6
          And where is polysilicon produced in Russia?
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 27 January 2021 08: 46
            0
            At the same enterprises, which actually make, as you say, "Chips". This is part of the process.
            The author of this note, in principle, is not aware of the state of affairs in modern microelectronics.
            By the way, rare earth materials are practically not used in microelectronics, only in very rare and highly specific cases, and there the need is hundreds of grams per year.
            1. Undecim
              Undecim 27 January 2021 09: 46
              +2
              What "chips" did I talk about?
              Do you represent the production of polycrystalline silicon?
              1. Ua3qhp
                Ua3qhp 27 January 2021 14: 14
                -2
                Quite. From it, the gates of MOSFET transistors are made.
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 27 January 2021 14: 37
                  +2
                  You overestimated your knowledge. First, the gates of MOSFET transistors are not made of silicon, they are used for making a substrate.
                  Secondly, polycrystalline silicon obtained by the Siemens process and obtained from it (polycrystalline) by the Czochralski method and zone melting polycrystalline silicon of electronic quality are different materials.
                  1. Ua3qhp
                    Ua3qhp 30 January 2021 18: 30
                    0
                    We are talking about different polysilicon.
                    You are talking about the source material, which is melted and grown from it into single crystals.
                    I'm talking about polysilicon, which is deposited from the gas phase in the manufacture of MOSFET gates. To reduce its electrical resistance, doping with phosphorus is carried out, most often by the method of ion implantation.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 30 January 2021 19: 29
                      +1
                      Firstly, not the gates, but the substrates.
                      Secondly, in Russia there is no production of polycrystalline silicon on an industrial scale using any of the five known methods.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 02
                -1
                Here's something from last year
                "TOMSK, June 18 - RIA Tomsk. Tomsk Polytechnic University (TPU) will install in 2020 at its research nuclear reactor the first complex in Russia for alloying silicon with a diameter of more than 200 millimeters; this will make it possible to produce up to 7 tons of silicon per year, which will be about 5 % of the world production volume, the head of the reactor Artyom Naimushin told RIA Tomsk.

                Earlier it was reported that in 2019 TPU received a grant from the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation in the amount of 87,5 million rubles for the modernization of a research university reactor. By the end of 2020, new scientific complexes will be installed at the reactor ".
                1. Undecim
                  Undecim 27 January 2021 19: 11
                  0
                  Gentlemen, in order not to waste time, figure out what polycrystalline silicon is, how it is produced and what is made of it. Then you will understand that the nuclear reactor has absolutely nothing to do with it. The network has everything.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 27 January 2021 23: 51
                    -2
                    "From a technological point of view, polycrystalline silicon is the most chemically pure form of industrially produced semi-finished silicon, obtained by purifying commercial silicon by chloride and fluoride methods and used for the production of mono- and multicrystalline silicon." Iiiii - the initial raw material is the same silicon which will receive the information about which was given at the reactor plant.
                    1. Undecim
                      Undecim 28 January 2021 00: 02
                      +1
                      Don't write nonsense. Better instead of Wikipedia and all sorts of nonsense on the net, read a textbook like "Theory and Technology of Electrometallurgy of Ferroalloys" and "Metallurgy of High Purity Polycrystalline Silicon", if basic knowledge allows you to read such books.
                      Learn a lot of new things.
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 23
                        -2
                        What is that textbook with theories for me - you better ask yourself how they do it in practice.
                      2. Undecim
                        Undecim 28 January 2021 16: 29
                        0
                        Yes, you, besides being an ignoramus, are also a boor.
                2. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 28 January 2021 00: 04
                  -4
                  OOO "Nitol Group" is a Russian industrial and commercial organization that is part of the Nitol Solar group of companies. Until 2011, it positioned itself as a manufacturer of polycrystalline silicon for solar energy. The production complex includes:

                  production of organochlorine products and caustic soda,
                  synthesis of trichlorosilane. The final stage was the production of polycrystalline silicon of the quality required for the production of solar cells.
                  Largest participants:

                  Sberbank of Russia,
                  International Finance Corporation (IFC),
                  large manufacturer of solar panels Suntech Power.
                  In 2007 - 2011, the company implemented a project to create the first large-scale production of polycrystalline silicon in Russia - the base material for solar energy and electronics. The planned production capacity was 5000 tons per year. The project budget is 19,5 billion rubles. The main production facilities are located in Russia (in the regions of Eastern Siberia). It was planned to supply products to the international market: the United States, Europe and Southeast Asia. By 2012, the outbreak of the crisis of overproduction of polysilicon led to a collapse in prices to the payback threshold, which led to the closure of all polysilicon production facilities in the CIS, including NITOL in Russia.
                  ... Practice has shown that such production in Russia is simply stranded and unprofitable - even if it is produced in small batches at related enterprises and institutes. Wishlist - wishlist and given - given.
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 28 January 2021 00: 11
                    +2
                    Practice has shown that such production in Russia is simply stranded and unprofitable.
                    Make galoshes.
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 29
                      -1
                      Go make polysilicon in large volumes - the whole market is clogged with payback, your production will not be able to pour as much dough as you like on the output, the products will be more expensive than the same Singapore or Chinese polysilicon. Yes, and no one needs galoshes - they buy all the shoes.
        2. Aag
          Aag 27 January 2021 18: 33
          +1
          Quote: Undecim
          And where is polysilicon produced in Russia?

          "OJSC RUSNANO has received approval from the Russian government to close the Nitol project for the production of polycrystalline silicon in the town of Usolye-Sibirskoye (Irkutsk region) and is working on a new project for the production of elements of equipment for solar energy," RUSNANO chairman of the board Anatoly Chubais told reporters in Moscow.

          “The government, at the level of deputy prime minister, approved a proposal to terminate the project in its current configuration,” Chubais said. "The proposal to launch a new project was assessed as interesting, and its implementation is left to our discretion."

          According to Anatoly Chubais, a new project has been preliminarily worked out, there are plans for a technological partnership, for attracting co-investors to the project. "
          I didn’t read any further.
          Is that in Karaganda. Or, pick up the rhyme yourself ... Sorry for bad manners. hi
          Well, the puppy's mother, wherever you dig, is everywhere a reason to be surprised, indignant, get drunk, embittered, strangle himself, leave, shoot himself, return, figure it out, (your options), - underline the necessary ... hi
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 27 January 2021 18: 45
            +4
            Nitol stopped production back in 2013 due to losses.
            Currently, prices for polycrystalline silicon are below the baseboard, so there will be no co-investors, it is impossible to earn money there.
            The only option is government funding, as in the USSR.
            1. Aag
              Aag 27 January 2021 20: 30
              +2
              Quote: Undecim
              Nitol stopped production back in 2013 due to losses.
              Currently, the prices for polycrystalline silicon are below the baseboard ... therefore, there will be no co-investors, it is impossible to make money there.
              The only option is government funding, as in the USSR.

              Dear, Undecim, absolutely not special in this area (as in many others), just the first thing that opened ...
              But! According to the most accessible sources in terms of reserves of rare earth metals, the Russian Federation is in second place after China. With a two-order lag in terms of volumes (but the rest are even further!). Don't you think that "... prices for polycrystalline silicon are below the plinth ...", and the surname mentioned in my post have the same nature? Rosimushchestvo, Energetika, etc., - everything that touched was depreciated, and was bought by foreigners.
              If there are explanations, I would be grateful. hi
              1. Undecim
                Undecim 27 January 2021 20: 48
                +3
                Don't you think that "... the prices for polycrystalline silicon are below the baseboard ..." and the name mentioned in my post have the same nature?
                The surname you mentioned cannot affect world prices. It's just that there is an overproduction of polycrystalline silicon in the world. Accordingly, the price tends to go down and new production will not pay off in the foreseeable future. Therefore, this process is not interesting to anyone.
                It's not a problem to buy it. But considering that this material is strategic, it is better to have your own production, even unprofitable. But such production can only be financed by the state.
                1. Aag
                  Aag 27 January 2021 21: 13
                  +2
                  "... But considering that this material is strategic, it is better to have your own production, even unprofitable. But such production can only be financed by the state ..."
                  I have always counted like this, for all strategic resources. And, given the size of the country (and the "attractiveness" for competitors), there will be a lot of them.
                  And how to nationalize?
                  1. Undecim
                    Undecim 27 January 2021 21: 41
                    0
                    And how to nationalize?
                    Drive the Aurora to the Moscow River.
                    1. Aag
                      Aag 27 January 2021 21: 47
                      +1
                      Quote: Undecim
                      And how to nationalize?
                      Drive the Aurora to the Moscow River.

                      ... The same dead end of thoughts ((.
  • nsm1
    nsm1 27 January 2021 02: 03
    -1
    We don't have copper either.
    That is, there is, but not enough, even in Chile, ore is purchased.
  • Aag
    Aag 27 January 2021 16: 42
    0
    Quote: Svetlana
    China controls the market for rare earth bo and has rich deposits in the Hindu Kush and Tibet mountains. The same deposits continue in the Pamir Mountains, and the Chinese climbed behind them (and not only) into Tajikistan. In Russia, there is no such number of deposits physically, so yes, I will have to buy rare earths and nothing can be done about it (But there is oil in Russia)

    What I didn't understand Russia does not produce mono- or poly-crystalline silicon? The text talks about poly-, but as far as I understand, microelectronics needs mono-

    "... Russia does not have such a number of deposits physically, so yes, I will have to buy rare earths and nothing can be done about it ..."
    From what sources does this follow? Sorry, I hammered into the search engine "REM RF", and what I see: the first three sources say that in terms of reserves of rare earth metals Russia is in second place after China. True, with a healthy margin, without delving into the groups of those same metals, and fields are unsuitable for production. Some fields are unlicensed, and some of the licenses were canceled two, three years ago (!!!) Another sabotage? As with aluminum, hydroelectric power plants?
    Maybe that is why the Russian Federation is in third place in the production of rare earth metals, lagging behind China by almost two orders, and letting Australia go ahead, and not at all because we do not have them?
    1. Andrey sh
      Andrey sh 28 January 2021 10: 57
      0
      Yes, just no one in the Russian Federation invests in the search and development of new deposits - this money needs to be spent ...
      1. Aag
        Aag 28 January 2021 14: 36
        0
        Quote: Andrey sh
        Yes, just no one in the Russian Federation invests in the search and development of new deposits - this money needs to be spent ...

        Have you read what you are commenting on?
        Existing, developed deposits are being closed! (If you believe the sources that have turned up). New ones discovered under the USSR are not being developed ...
  • Professor
    Professor 26 January 2021 21: 45
    +5
    If the state continues to invest in high-tech industry, ensures the restoration of the resource base and is able to reduce imports of the same rare earth metals, while not forgetting to finance technical education and pay normal salaries to employees, then chances for the restoration of microelectronics will appear.

    Will not appear. The train left. As a specialist who has worked for 20 years in the bourgeois semiconductor industry, I responsibly declare.
    1. ironic
      ironic 26 January 2021 21: 49
      -3
      Well, they can produce their own, but they are expensive and will lag far behind technologically.
    2. hhhhhhh
      hhhhhhh 26 January 2021 21: 54
      +2
      You are funny))))) A workshop for replacing iPhone screens is not a semiconductor industry
    3. vitvit123
      vitvit123 26 January 2021 22: 02
      0
      As one character in our classic shouted:
      - I am impressed ! We are delighted! ...
    4. chenia
      chenia 26 January 2021 22: 17
      +6
      Quote: Professor
      The train left.


      The train stopped. Moore's Law doesn't work. New principles are needed.
      1. ironic
        ironic 26 January 2021 22: 32
        -3
        It still works.
      2. Gvardeetz77
        Gvardeetz77 26 January 2021 22: 34
        +1
        Quote: chenia
        Quote: Professor
        The train left.


        The train stopped. Moore's Law doesn't work. New principles are needed.

        At the very end of the 90s, they said that the data transfer rate in the network via wires would not be higher than 8Mb / s,
        and on the radio something is no more than 48Kb / s, the higher is simply impossible physically, but what do we see now?
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 26 January 2021 22: 46
          +3
          Quote: Gvardeetz77

          At the very end of the 90s, they said that the data transfer rate in the network via wires would not be higher than 8Mb / s,


          Who said something? Optical lines gave gigabits per second already in the 1980s, the Fast Ethernet standard (100 Mbps) - 1995.
    5. APASUS
      APASUS 26 January 2021 22: 21
      +3
      Quote: Professor
      Will not appear. The train left. As a specialist who has worked for 20 years in the bourgeois semiconductor industry, I responsibly declare.

      More recently, China was famous only for its clothes. There would be a desire, I think it's quite possible to catch up
      1. Professor
        Professor 26 January 2021 22: 25
        +7
        Quote: APASUS
        Quote: Professor
        Will not appear. The train left. As a specialist who has worked for 20 years in the bourgeois semiconductor industry, I responsibly declare.

        More recently, China was famous only for its clothes. There would be a desire, I think it's quite possible to catch up

        Uh-huh. It turns out that you simply have no desire to have an annual double-digit GDP growth within 20 years. wassat

        Everything that he has in this area was built by the bourgeois for China. I myself have participated in this process for 10 years about which I have written here many times. I wonder if the Americans will start building a semiconductor industry for you? A rhetorical question.
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 27 January 2021 18: 08
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          Uh-huh. It turns out that you simply have no desire to have an annual double-digit GDP growth within 20 years.

          As you all rolled into one heap. Growth in the economy and the success of the semiconductor industry.
          Quote: Professor
          For China, everything that it has in this area was built by the bourgeois. I wonder if the Americans will start building a semiconductor industry for you?

          They won't even think about it, but to sit on the priest evenly and dream of a modern industrial complex, so you suggest?
          And at one time, the Americans had a wonderful opportunity to build in Russia, everything that China absorbed into itself. But under sweet stories about democracy and rights, Russia was stripped and stripped off. Until all your high-ranking lobbyists are thrown out in Russia, there will be no electronics. Chubais as the head of RUSNANO, a paradox: he has not completed more than one reform
          1. Professor
            Professor 27 January 2021 20: 44
            -1
            Quote: APASUS
            As you all rolled into one heap. Growth in the economy and the success of the semiconductor industry.

            These things are inseparable, CEP. fellow

            Quote: APASUS
            They won't even think about it, but to sit on the priest evenly and dream of a modern industrial complex, so you suggest?

            I propose to put up with it and look for our place in the food chain of the global division of labor. Your microelectronics train is gone and you won't catch up with it.

            Quote: APASUS
            And at one time, the Americans had a wonderful opportunity to build in Russia, everything that China absorbed into itself. But under sweet stories about democracy and rights, Russia was stripped and

            You buried this opportunity with the Yukos case. Not a single sane investor will invest money in you. China will be, Israel will be and even Vietnam, But not in you.

            Quote: APASUS
            Until all your high-ranking lobbyists are kicked out in Russia, there will be no electronics. Chubais was put in charge of RUSNANO, a paradox. He has not completed more than one reform.

            There will be no microelectronics under any circumstances.
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 28 January 2021 08: 32
              0
              Quote: Professor
              You buried this opportunity with the Yukos case. Not a single sane investor will invest money in you. China will be, Israel will be and even Vietnam, But not in you.

              You are our storyteller! And our industry was destroyed under the guise of perestroika, also because of the Yukos affair?
              I can tell you about my enterprise. How the most modern plant built in the USSR by Finnish contractors began to saw. How the US State Department asked Chernomyrdin to add the enterprise to the privatization lists.
              1. Professor
                Professor 28 January 2021 11: 25
                0
                Quote: APASUS
                You are our storyteller! And our industry was destroyed under the guise of perestroika, also because of the Yukos affair?

                Of course, I am a storyteller, and in fact, the level of foreign investment in the Russian economy is off the charts. laughing

                And you yourself destroyed your industry. Sitting on an oil pipe was much easier.

                Quote: APASUS
                I can tell you about my enterprise. How the most modern plant built in the USSR by Finnish contractors began to saw. How the US State Department asked Chernomyrdin to add the enterprise to the privatization lists.

                I knew that the State Department was to blame. Do you also urinate in the elevators of the State Department?

                The facts are that you, like everyone else, are not capable of creating a modern industry on your own without bourgeois help. Everything else is lyrics.
                1. APASUS
                  APASUS 28 January 2021 11: 39
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  Of course, I am a storyteller, and in fact, the level of foreign investment in the Russian economy is off the charts.

                  Nobody spoke about the off-scale level of foreign investment in the Russian economy, do not distort
                  Quote: Professor
                  And you yourself destroyed your industry.

                  This is understandable, for one industry in Ukraine, the Baltic States, Georgia, etc.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Sitting on an oil pipe was much easier.

                  This is rather our trouble, life would make the leadership wiggle their brains, but while there are resources
                  Quote: Professor
                  I knew that the State Department was to blame.

                  I gave you a specific example of the history of my enterprise.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Do you also urinate in the elevators of the State Department?

                  And what does elevators have to do with it, do they also affect the level of development of microprocessors?
                  Quote: Professor
                  The facts are that you, like everyone else, are not capable of creating a modern industry on your own without bourgeois help.

                  Did your vaunted bourgeois help a lot in the rise of the USSR after the war? I can directly see how von Braun straightens Gagarin's collar before the start ....................................... .... laughing examples of thousands
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 29 January 2021 09: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: APASUS
                    Nobody spoke about the off-scale level of foreign investment in the Russian economy, do not distort

                    Oh yes. Fairy tales are what the Yukos affair scared off investors. In fact, on the other hand, attracted. wink

                    Quote: APASUS
                    This is understandable, for one industry in Ukraine, the Baltic States, Georgia, etc.

                    1. Soviet industry has always been backward and not competitive. The free market put it in its place. Into the grave.
                    2. In "and so on" let's look at Belarus for the most part has preserved its industry.

                    Quote: APASUS
                    I gave you a specific example of the history of my enterprise.

                    You can refer to the request of the State Department. Very much like OBS.

                    Quote: APASUS
                    And what does elevators have to do with it, do they also affect the level of development of microprocessors?

                    Oh yeah. Influence and how. I will give you an example from my own experience. A couple of years ago I was looking for a laser system for processing ceramics with micron precision. After a long search, two companies reached the finals that met the requirements in absentia. I went to see both. I will not talk about the systems themselves yet. Show me sinks in the laboratories of both companies and toilets
                    1. China



                    2. Spain.


                    If you haven't already guessed, the laser systems themselves matched these photographs. Miracles do not happen.

                    Quote: APASUS
                    Did your vaunted bourgeois help a lot in the rise of the USSR after the war? I can see directly how von Braun straightens Gagarin's collar before the start ....................................... .... thousands of examples

                    1. As soon as the bourgeoisie stopped feeding the USSR according to Lend-lease, a natural hunger arose in the USSR.
                    2. The industrialization in the USSR was carried out by the bourgeoisie.
                    3. The USSR proudly rejected the Marshal's plan proposed by the bourgeois.
                    4. At the very time when Gagarin was sent into space in the village of my father in the south of Ukraine electricity had not yet been installed. The same situation was in my mother's village in Belarus.
                    1. APASUS
                      APASUS 29 January 2021 12: 08
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      Oh yes. Fairy tales are what the Yukos affair scared off investors. In fact, on the other hand, attracted.

                      I think it will not be difficult for you to find, those accusations of shareholders in Switzerland against Khodorkovsky. With the exposure of tax evasion schemes. Of course, the Yukos case is more political, but he should make an indicator of honest business, an angel without wings!
                      Are you drowning for Khodorkovsky because of yours or shares?
                      Quote: Professor
                      2. In "and so on" let's look at Belarus for the most part has preserved its industry.

                      And come on, have you peessed the country for a long time? Can you say something in essence?
                      Quote: Professor
                      You can refer to the request of the State Department. Very much like OBS.

                      Are you laughing? I opened the list of strategic enterprises for that period, so there are only 479 government decrees on the change. It takes a couple of weeks to search for information
                      Quote: Professor
                      Oh yeah. Influence and how. I will give you an example from my own experience. A couple of years ago I was looking for a laser system for processing ceramics with micron precision. After a long search, two companies reached the finals that met the requirements in absentia. I went to see both. I will not talk about the systems themselves yet. Show me sinks in the laboratories of both companies and toilets

                      Unfortunately, I cannot show that it is necessary to overtake the number of the camera film, but I also have similar materials, and the paradoxical thing is that these are Finland and Denmark, Poland.
                      Production culture
                      Quote: Professor
                      1. As soon as the bourgeoisie stopped feeding the USSR according to Lend-lease, a natural hunger arose in the USSR.

                      Should prosperity begin in a war-torn country?
                      Quote: Professor
                      2. The industrialization in the USSR was carried out by the bourgeoisie.

                      They stood at the machines at night or were in the fields for days .............
                      Quote: Professor
                      At the very time when Gagarin was sent into space in the village of my father in southern Ukraine, electricity had not yet been installed.

                      And this cancels the feat of the people after the restoration of the country from the ruins? Cancels the genius of designers? We never had a TV set with our grandfather. Because there was no time to watch it, there were horses, cows, pigs.
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 29 January 2021 14: 38
                        -1
                        Quote: APASUS
                        I think it will not be difficult for you to find, those accusations of shareholders in Switzerland against Khodorkovsky. With the exposure of tax evasion schemes. Of course, the Yukos case is more political, but he should make an indicator of honest business, an angel without wings!
                        Are you drowning for Khodorkovsky because of yours or shares?

                        I read the court decision to collect $ 50 not from Khodorkovsky, but from the Russian Federation.
                        I have no feelings for Khodorkovsky himself. Nevertheless, the Yukos case is a watershed after which you had to forget about foreign investments.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        And come on, have you peessed the country for a long time? Can you say something in essence?

                        I have been visiting for a long time, but I can say something because my closest relatives live there, and professionally I follow their electronics industry.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        Are you laughing? I opened the list of strategic enterprises for that period, so there are only 479 government decrees on the change. It takes a couple of weeks to search for information

                        I have been on this site for 10 years. I'll wait a couple of weeks.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        Should prosperity begin in a war-torn country?

                        Hmm. The labor force returned from the front, the equipment returned from the front (tractors, trucks, etc.), there was an abundance of fuel, there was no drought, the Kuban and Ukraine were back in the USSR, but ... there was a famine that had not existed before. How so? It's simple. The bourgeoisie no longer supplied grain.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        They stood at the machines at night or were in the fields for days .............

                        We built factories, brought in technology, trained specialists ... Well, just like we are in China.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        And this cancels the feat of the people after the restoration of the country from the ruins? Cancels the genius of designers? We never had a TV set with our grandfather. Because there was no time to watch it, there were horses, cows, pigs.

                        It puts everything in its place.
                      2. APASUS
                        APASUS 29 January 2021 15: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        I read the court decision to collect $ 50 not from Khodorkovsky, but from the Russian Federation.

                        I have read so many controversial and politicized decisions that it does not matter.
                        Quote: Professor
                        I have no feelings for Khodorkovsky himself. Nevertheless, the Yukos case is a watershed after which you had to forget about foreign investments.

                        Interesting opinion. In the Khodorkovsky case, they decided not only to deprive us of investments and to rob us for one thing.
                        Quote: Professor
                        I have been visiting for a long time, but I can say something because my closest relatives live there, and professionally I follow their electronics industry.

                        I meant, first of all, your claims to the state
                        Quote: Professor
                        I have been on this site for 10 years. I'll wait a couple of weeks.

                        I don’t have a couple of weeks to shovel the information, and if I have to shovel the State Department archives, this is generally a breakthrough in time.
                        Moreover, this will not change my opinion. Our owner, a citizen of the United States and with his direct fate, the plant was sentenced to be cut into metal.
                        I will not change my mind, I have probably seen too much. Everyone will remain unconvinced.
                      3. Professor
                        Professor 29 January 2021 16: 23
                        -1
                        Quote: APASUS
                        I have read so many controversial and politicized decisions that it does not matter.

                        The decision of the court and only it plays a role. The Russian Federation lost the Yukos case.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        Interesting opinion. In the Khodorkovsky case, they decided not only to deprive us of investments and to rob us for one thing.

                        Let's see a graph of FDI in Russia by year:


                        Quote: APASUS
                        I meant, first of all, your claims to the state

                        I have no complaints against your state. To Belarus too.

                        Quote: APASUS

                        I don’t have a couple of weeks to shovel the information, and if I have to shovel the State Department archives, this is generally a breakthrough in time.
                        Moreover, this will not change my opinion. Our owner, a citizen of the United States and with his direct fate, the plant was sentenced to be cut into metal.
                        I will not change my mind, I have probably seen too much. Everyone will remain unconvinced.

                        That is, you just slandered the State Department. hi
                      4. APASUS
                        APASUS 29 January 2021 20: 45
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        The decision of the court and only it plays a role. The Russian Federation lost the Yukos case.

                        1 The Yukos case is rather political and Russia would not have won it in a Western court, even if it were right 1000 times.
                        2 And Khodorkovsky should have been imprisoned not for taxes, but for the direct organization of an organized criminal group.
                        How did he organize Yukos to write, why did his accomplice Lebedev sit down?
                        Quote: Professor
                        Let's see a graph of FDI in Russia by year:

                        Let's see, but I have a different schedule, the same yours print

                        the numbers do not beat and where is the guarantee that this is real infa?
                        Quote: Professor
                        I have no complaints against your state. To Belarus too.

                        Okay, tell me about the economy of Belarus, flawed and backward. As I understand it, you keep bringing this idea across?
                        Quote: Professor
                        That is, you just slandered the State Department.

                        Okay, I'll try to find what you are asking for.
                        This will suit you, only it won't be tomorrow
                        Although I suspect that there won't be many documents, Gorby also promised a lot in words.
                      5. APASUS
                        APASUS 29 January 2021 21: 26
                        0
                        Quote: APASUS
                        That is, you just slandered the State Department.

                        in 1991, the first stage of a new division of Russian Diesel - the Leningrad Diesel Plant - was commissioned. About one and a half billion dollars were invested in its construction. When it reached its full capacity, Russian Diesel became out of reach for competitors in the production of medium-speed diesel engines.
                        There was a reason to be delighted with the head of the Russian Government, Viktor Chernomyrdin, who came to the plant, only from that day on, state funding for the completion of the plant was cut off. Accident?
                        At the request of the International Monetary Fund, Russian Diesel was excluded from the list of particularly important defense enterprises and transferred to the list of enterprises subject to privatization under separate projects. A "separate project" for the privatization of "Russian Diesel" was carried out by a foreign firm - financial tender consultant "Cooper and Leibrands". Deputy Prime Minister Ilya Klebanov first appointed Drugov, a former Komsomol worker, sportsman by education, who worked in private financial institutions, to manage the Russian Diesel, then the geologist Gulyaev, associated with the Norwegian company Sevotin. It was they who arranged "the last day of Pompeii" for the Russian Diesel. Machine tools with "meat" were torn from the foundations and sold at the price of scrap metal. Literally for a penny, the Koreans launched a rare Wallenberg machine for processing crankshafts, there are only three such machines in the world. There, abroad, and again, for a song, the unique centers for the processing of hulls floated away. The test benches just mounted at the Leningrad Diesel Plant were not dismantled - they were simply blown up. The "Russian Diesel" got in the way for someone and they dealt with it mercilessly. Under the signboard "Russian Diesel" there is only one hardware factory that belongs to the vodka producer Sabadash.

                        At the expense of slander, you got excited, I must admit.
                      6. Professor
                        Professor 30 January 2021 09: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: APASUS
                        At the expense of slander, you got excited, I must admit.

                        I read to the end. Not a word about the State Department. Accordingly, he is unfairly slandered by you.
                      7. APASUS
                        APASUS 30 January 2021 10: 24
                        -1
                        Quote: Professor
                        Quote: APASUS
                        At the expense of slander, you got excited, I must admit.

                        I read to the end. Not a word about the State Department. Accordingly, he is unfairly slandered by you.

                        As I understand it, the strategic management of the robbery of Russia is carried out not by the State Department, but by the CIA, well, forgive those honest guys. Everything just coincided, American Ford, the demand of the IMF, the looting of the plant, the sale to an American citizen.
                        Oh yes, I forgot. You need a signature in the original by Madelaine Albright, with confirmation of the facsimile seal of Bill Clinton. Fingerprints on the documents of Chernomyrdin and Jim Hackett, well, excuse the prints!
                      8. Professor
                        Professor 30 January 2021 11: 44
                        -1
                        Quote: APASUS
                        As I understand it, the strategic management of the robbery of Russia is carried out not by the State Department, but by the CIA, well, forgive those honest guys. Everything just coincided, American Ford, the demand of the IMF, the looting of the plant, the sale to an American citizen.

                        At least the State Department in this case turned out to be innocent.

                        Quote: APASUS
                        Oh yes, I forgot. You need a signature in the original by Madelaine Albright, with confirmation of the facsimile seal of Bill Clinton. Fingerprints on the documents of Chernomyrdin and Jim Hackett, well, excuse the prints!

                        No prints needed, but I would like to see the written orders. These bourgeois have such a bureaucracy ... wassat
                2. Professor
                  Professor 30 January 2021 09: 08
                  -1
                  Quote: APASUS
                  1 The Yukos case is rather political and Russia would not have won it in a Western court, even if it were right 1000 times.
                  2 And Khodorkovsky should have been imprisoned not for taxes, but for the direct organization of an organized criminal group.
                  How did he organize Yukos to write, why did his accomplice Lebedev sit down?

                  The court found the Russian Federation guilty in the Yukos case. Dot.

                  Quote: APASUS
                  Let's see, but I have a different schedule, the same yours print


                  the numbers do not beat and where is the guarantee that this is real infa?

                  Look at the balance. The graphs are almost identical.

                  Quote: APASUS
                  Okay, tell me about the economy of Belarus, flawed and backward. As I understand it, you keep bringing this idea across?

                  Excellent economy given the lack of minerals, access to the sea and such neighbors. It could have been much worse.

                  Quote: APASUS
                  Okay, I'll try to find what you are asking for.
                  This will suit you, only it won't be tomorrow
                  Although I suspect that there won't be many documents, Gorby also promised a lot in words.

                  What they promised in words is fairy tales.
                  In God we trust. The rest must bring data.
                3. APASUS
                  APASUS 30 January 2021 10: 35
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  The court found the Russian Federation guilty in the Yukos case. Dot.

                  The court wanted to admit, and it admitted, and that's really the point.
                  After the Pompeo test tube, it makes no sense to argue about the honesty of the West!
                  Quote: Professor
                  Look at the balance. The graphs are almost identical.

                  In general, the whole trend is clear, but I did not say right away that there was a flurry of investments
                  Quote: Professor
                  Excellent economy given the lack of minerals, access to the sea and such neighbors. It could have been much worse.

                  There are of course a lot of problems, but in reality from all the countries of the former USSR this is perhaps the most normal option, although a lot controversial.
                  Quote: Professor
                  What they promised in words is fairy tales.
                  In God we trust. The rest must bring data.

                  Words, words are real reality. Remember: highley likely
                4. Professor
                  Professor 30 January 2021 11: 50
                  -2
                  Quote: APASUS
                  The court wanted to admit, and it admitted, and that's really the point.
                  After the Pompeo test tube, it makes no sense to argue about the honesty of the West!

                  1.You yourself admitted the jurisdiction of this court. Otherwise, there was nothing to sue there. In case of a positive decision in your favor, there was no question of any "politicization". Is not it?

                  2. The test tube in the hands of Colin Powell is a) not a court decision, b) the presence of biological weapons in Saddam is an indisputable fact.
                  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9244334/

                  Quote: APASUS
                  There are of course a lot of problems, but in reality from all the countries of the former USSR this is perhaps the most normal option, although a lot controversial.

                  That’s what I’m talking about.

                  Quote: APASUS
                  Words, words are real reality. Remember: highley likely

                  In God we trust. The rest must bring data.
                5. APASUS
                  APASUS 30 January 2021 20: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  The test tube in the hands of Colin Powell is a) not a court decision, b) the presence of biological weapons in Saddam is an indisputable fact.
                  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9244334/

                  In UN Resolution 1441 there is not a word about biological weapons at all !! Namely, this resolution was given by the Americans as the reason for the attack on Iraq. There is talk mainly about the production of nuclear weapons.
                  https://undocs.org/en/S/RES/1441(2002)
                  Now for biological weapons, you'll love the source!
                  https://www.svoboda.org/a/24197154.html
                  In the United States, there were virtually no legal or administrative restrictions on such exchanges. In May 86, Iraq, on a completely legal basis, acquired in the United States especially dangerous strains of anthrax, botulism and brucellosis, obtained in American laboratories in the mid-50s as part of the biological weapons program. Export licenses were easy to issue: Baghdad was almost an ally of Washington in opposing fundamentalist Iran and even used data from US space intelligence, which supplied it with photographs of Iranian military installations.
                  The seller was the American Type Culture Collection in Maryland, which collected an extensive library of strains, which was used by both American and foreign researchers. The buyer was the University of Baghdad. The US Department of Commerce found no reason to refuse to issue a license.
                  Around this time, in the late 80s, the US Armed Forces Medical Intelligence Center began actively collecting and analyzing information on microbiological research in third world countries. If before this was done by one specialist in the center, now many scientists, including world-renowned experts, were mobilized to carry out the task. In June 88, the Center presented a report to President Reagan in which it was stated that Iraq, behind the cover of scientific research, had made significant progress in developing its bacteriological arsenal. It was primarily about developments based on the toxin secreted by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum and selectively affecting the central nervous system. Moreover, a person who has received a dose of this poison most often dies as a result of cardiopulmonary failure. The authors of the report concluded that the bacteria of botulism were required by the Baghdad regime as a weapon of political assassination. The report also showed that Saddam's microbiologists had also made great strides in creating combat-grade anthrax bacilli. These programs were overseen by the chief of Iraqi intelligence, Saddam's son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.
                  Three months after the report was sent to top US officials, a laboratory in Maryland sent another package to Iraq containing 11 samples of deadly bacteria, including four strains of anthrax. This time, the customer was the Department of Technical and Scientific Procurement of the Iraqi Ministry of Trade. And only in February 89, the US Department of Commerce introduced a ban on the sale of dangerous pathogens, including anthrax, to Iraq, Iran, Libya and Syria.

                  Oops, how's that not good? As the Prosecutor General of the USSR said: "The main thing is not to get out on ourselves during investigative actions ..."
                6. Professor
                  Professor 30 January 2021 21: 57
                  -1
                  Quote: APASUS
                  In UN Resolution 1441 there is not a word about biological weapons at all !! Namely, this resolution was given by the Americans as the reason for the attack on Iraq. There is talk mainly about the production of nuclear weapons.

                  That was enough. Nevertheless, the fact of the creation of biological weapons is obvious.

                  Quote: APASUS
                  Now for biological weapons, you'll love the source!
                  https://www.svoboda.org/a/24197154.html

                  Duc on the radio, you can freely say whatever you want. Well, and again here is confirmation of the fact that Iraq has created bacteriological weapons. Powell knew what he shook at the UN.
                7. APASUS
                  APASUS 31 January 2021 11: 20
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  That was enough. Nevertheless, the fact of the creation of biological weapons is obvious.

                  Using your logic, having committed an accident, you can sit down for the distribution of drugs ....... but you are a genius!
                8. Professor
                  Professor 31 January 2021 22: 39
                  0
                  Quote: APASUS
                  Quote: Professor
                  That was enough. Nevertheless, the fact of the creation of biological weapons is obvious.

                  Using your logic, having committed an accident, you can sit down for the distribution of drugs ....... but you are a genius!

                  But what about? Found guilty of an accident where he knocked down a pedestrian at a red light while drunk, and you keep repeating that "he was wearing seat belts." How so?
                  They found weapons of mass destruction at Saddam. And in violation of his obligations he had a nuclear program and he used chemical weapons and had bacteriological weapons. And we all laugh at the test tube. Although no, only your compatriots laugh.
                9. APASUS
                  APASUS 1 February 2021 09: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  They found weapons of mass destruction at Saddam. And in violation of his obligations he had a nuclear program and he used chemical weapons and had bacteriological weapons. And we all laugh at the test tube. Although no, only your compatriots laugh.

                  Bravo! Brilliant! And what did the Americans find nuclear weapons in Yugoslavia? As well as Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, you need to write the entire list ............................. Although this is rather rhetorical Question: Israel is waging similar wars with its neighbors
                10. Professor
                  Professor 1 February 2021 16: 55
                  0
                  Quote: APASUS
                  Quote: Professor
                  They found weapons of mass destruction at Saddam. And in violation of his obligations he had a nuclear program and he used chemical weapons and had bacteriological weapons. And we all laugh at the test tube. Although no, only your compatriots laugh.

                  Bravo! Brilliant! And what did the Americans find nuclear weapons in Yugoslavia? As well as Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, you need to write the entire list ............................. Although this is rather rhetorical Question: Israel is waging similar wars with its neighbors

                  They found weapons of mass destruction at Saddam. And in violation of his obligations he had a nuclear program and he used chemical weapons and had bacteriological weapons.
                11. Zaurbek
                  Zaurbek 1 February 2021 19: 23
                  0
                  And he had oil and ISIS from the Iraqis then swept across the region ... all the good ..
  • 210ox
    210ox 26 January 2021 23: 18
    +4
    In this case, China is not an example. Nobody will deliver the equipment, money is needed for this, and the exhaust is not for the next year.
    1. Professor
      Professor 27 January 2021 07: 25
      -1
      Quote: 210ox
      In this case, China is not an example. Nobody will deliver the equipment, money is needed for this, and the exhaust is not for the next year.

      Not only China is a good example. Korea, Taiwan and even Malaysia with Indonesia. Now Vietnam is catching up. All industry there is created with bourgeois money and bourgeois technologies.
      Your train is gone. Forever and ever. This is a medical fact.
      1. Fan-fan
        Fan-fan 27 January 2021 14: 59
        -2
        Well, we still have a glimmer of hope that an intelligent, businesslike and decent person will come to replace Putin. Then everything can change.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 04
          +3
          "A smart, businesslike and decent person will come." Alas, the culture of the mind of local officials and part of the population will definitely not change his arrival.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • alaarsen
    alaarsen 27 January 2021 02: 00
    +4
    moreover, the desire is rather only declared.
  • Cottodraton
    Cottodraton 27 January 2021 03: 08
    -7
    Precisely because you are a specialist from a bourgeois office, you should not believe
  • Andrey sh
    Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 00
    0
    Well, so what? Did you DEVELOP this equipment? No - they ran and pressed the buttons at best. It is clear that in 5-7 years such a gap cannot be eliminated, in 12-15 it is possible. If you remove from the leadership those who do not understand anything about this. Well, to organize sales of products. And it doesn't have to be microprocessors ...
  • A_Lex
    A_Lex 26 January 2021 21: 50
    +6
    once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world, our country is now forced to acquire microelectronics in other countries.


    That power and the present state are fundamentally different states, with diametrically opposite goal-setting. Therefore, that state could produce its own, and in the current state, the only thing that has learned well is to create PR and draw beautiful presentations. Therefore, it is incorrect to compare these perfect different state formations. They have nothing in common at all.

    The legacy of the "dashing nineties"


    As I understand it, the lie about the "dashing 90s" can be rooted out only together with the bourgeoisie, which regularly reproduces lies on a completely unthinkable scale.

    In 1990, the enterprises of the Uralmash group produced 350 drilling rigs per year, but in 2012 only 30 were produced. In such a situation, the wear of the existing domestic equipment exceeds 70%.
    http://www.ru-energy.com/press_room/media_about/328/7506/

    According to the association "Stankoinstrument", even before 2008, Russia produced about 8-10 thousand machines a year, in 2009 - only 3 thousand, now - 4-4,5 thousand, as a result, the dependence of Russian enterprises on imported machines and accessories for them is 85-88%.
    http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2633606?isSearch=True

    The share of Russian production of machine tools in domestic consumption decreased from 19% in 2008 to 9% in 2012 and continues to fall.
    http://expert.ru/expert/2014/37/bez-svoih-chervyakov-ne-obojdemsya/

    In 2001, by a joint decision of the then State Committee on Telecommunications under the Ministry of Communications and Informatization and the Russian Agency for Control Systems, the Concept for the Development of the Russian Telecommunications Equipment Market for 2002-2010 was approved
    By 2010, the share of domestic communications in the networks of Russian operators was supposed to be 60–65%.
    Today, according to expert estimates, the share of Russian equipment on the unified telecommunication network of Russia does not exceed 10%, which is significantly lower than in 2001, when, according to the same document, it was 20-30%.
    http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2773793

    There are no "dashing 90s". And there is only a stable degradation that began in the 90s, intensified in the 00s, and intensified in the 10s. And all the figures speak eloquently about this degradation, from the same decreasing in quantitative terms space launches to the forced use of old Soviet projects in the course of the rearmament process.

    The third most important component of the revival of domestic microelectronics is the solution of the personnel issue. Experts of the old Soviet school age, retire, and some out of life. The quality of training new personnel is falling. In addition, the notorious "brain drain" does not stop: talented specialists have the opportunity in other countries to earn completely different money and live at a completely different level.


    Without massive free education and an adequate minimum wage, it is impossible to resolve the issue of qualified personnel. And due to the fact that under the current regime neither the first, let alone the second is impossible, one cannot count on progress in this area.
    1. vitvit123
      vitvit123 26 January 2021 22: 00
      -2
      I correctly understood that you consider the 90s a good development of the state? Let me ask you ... and when they talk about the 90s, then take into account the 90th year is either stupidity or slyness (since the 90th is still the USSR, and the 90s is the reign of the drunkard). what about you? ..
      1. A_Lex
        A_Lex 26 January 2021 22: 12
        +11
        Quote: vitvit123
        I correctly understood that you consider the 90s a good development of the state?


        In the 90s, the inertia of the Soviet system was still preserved. And most importantly, in the 90s the country had many normal Soviet people with knowledge, competencies and level of cultural development that were relevant at that time. The notorious victims of the exam and the era of total dominance of defective managers were still far away. Plus the system of organization was still transitional, and not completely borrowed from the beloved defective managers of the West - there was still no monetization of benefits, no idiotic insurance medicine, no sequestration of commuter trains, or other "delights".
        Due to this, the same industry, of course, did not develop. She just relatively gently entered the inevitable process of degradation, steadily slowing down.
        1. vitvit123
          vitvit123 27 January 2021 07: 43
          -4
          Well, again you are dissembling (at least) .. these are two different things. The inertia of the USSR in the development of the country and, as you put it, there were no dashing 90s ... well, firstly: how long did the "inertia" last, why is it (your phrase "inevitable degradation" .. why it should not be etc. your comments are devoid of specifics, but there are distortions of facts, situations .. this is not even populism ...
          1. A_Lex
            A_Lex 27 January 2021 13: 03
            +1
            You decide.

            Or you denounce. But it is necessary to convict it in evidence. It is not enough just to write the final conclusions "being cunning, populism, there are distortions", because any conclusions are always a consequence of preliminary reasoning, just as the result of solving an algebraic problem is a consequence of the process of solving a problem. You must clearly indicate where the text contains populism or distortions. Without a clear justification, any accusations are unfounded.

            Or you are interested, clarify, ask to clarify certain points. But in this version, you still cannot denounce, because once you clarify and clarify, then either you yourself do not fully understand the topic, or you do not fully understand the essence of your opponent's statements.
            1. vitvit123
              vitvit123 27 January 2021 16: 47
              0
              You can immediately see a creative and talented and wise person ..
              You are disingenuous in not answering my question directly ... that the country was developing by inertia, this is not an answer to the question: do you consider the state's development to be good in the 90s? ...
              - there was still no monetization of benefits, no idiotic insurance medicine, no sequestration of commuter trains, or other "delights".
              Due to this, the same industry, of course, did not develop - this is all from eternal populism, everything is cool, but primitive ..
              And again they did not answer my question: why should degradation be inevitable? , and even considering the aforementioned doubt (yours) about the dashing 90s ..?
              Well, just in case ... where there is a question mark, there I am interested ... at least there were two of them ...
              By the way, I accused you of guile, because you didn’t answer my question, but the fact that you didn’t answer (yes, no, don’t know, etc.) is evidence ... like that. But, of course, I'm not so "savvy" for situations like you, you really have indulgence and, by the way, there were still mistakes there, don't pay attention either.
        2. Aag
          Aag 27 January 2021 17: 17
          0
          Quote: A_Lex
          Quote: vitvit123
          I correctly understood that you consider the 90s a good development of the state?


          In the 90s, the inertia of the Soviet system was still preserved. And most importantly, in the 90s the country had many normal Soviet people with knowledge, competencies and level of cultural development that were relevant at that time. The notorious victims of the exam and the era of total dominance of defective managers were still far away. Plus the system of organization was still transitional, and not completely borrowed from the beloved defective managers of the West - there was still no monetization of benefits, no idiotic insurance medicine, no sequestration of commuter trains, or other "delights".
          Due to this, the same industry, of course, did not develop. She just relatively gently entered the inevitable process of degradation, steadily slowing down.

          Thanks for the two Strongest comments!
          Well, this, even on a banner, at least in the party program (I do not suffer from either one or the other))): "... the lie about the" dashing 90s "can be uprooted only together with the bourgeoisie, which regularly reproduces lies in completely unthinkable scale ... " hi
          Yes, and for those who did not understand, talk about the economy of the 90s-killed, plundered, and the current one, showing "annual steady growth", and not about what was happening in the 90s in the Country and its former subjects ... (((
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 35
            -3
            The economy of Russia at the moment is the 5th in the world - so no growth is taking place, and there is nothing to compare with the 90s the whole world has changed since then those who then bought our products from us now produce and export all this themselves.
            1. Aag
              Aag 27 January 2021 21: 05
              +2
              Quote: Vadim237
              The economy of Russia at the moment is the 5th in the world - so no growth is taking place, and there is nothing to compare with the 90s the whole world has changed since then those who then bought our products from us now produce and export all this themselves.

              I also love bedtime stories (it's nice to fall asleep in a good-natured mood), - I watch the news on TV sometimes ... Until they start talking about a familiar topic! in the USSR, with all the might of the propaganda machine, there were no such "postscripts"!
              Well, strain, give out achievements. In terms of the number of vessels (ships) - fishing, transport, (destroyers, cruisers), refineries (three were added in 30 years, - compare at least with other countries, at least with the fleet of those years), yes not even in volume, but in terms of the product range, try to take into account who has more from this (country of origin, or owner, founder, investor ...)
              And, ultimately, how much bread, gasoline (especially diesel fuel), housing and communal services tariffs, and many other things that were free of charge before have grown in price. Relate all this to salaries. It is desirable not to Rosstatovsky. Although, "you can go there too. .. "
              I, too, apparently most of my life was an optimist. But then there was a reason for this ... hi
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 January 2021 00: 14
                -3
                "With all the might of the propaganda machine, there were no such" postscripts "!" And this is not a fairy tale and not a postscript, these are all international rating agencies and offices, as well as the World Bank will say - now they count all the money, namely, GDP based on PPP, little and how much you have produced, the most important indicator of how much you earned - and you can cheap prices do not wait for Russia in a market economy like the whole world and private business everywhere that will not produce at a loss - as the USSR did and without profit there will be no development.
                1. Aag
                  Aag 28 January 2021 16: 18
                  0
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  "With all the might of the propaganda machine, there were no such" postscripts "!" And this is not a fairy tale and not a postscript, these are all international rating agencies and offices, as well as the World Bank will say - now they count all the money, namely, GDP based on PPP, little and how much you have produced, the most important indicator of how much you earned - and you can cheap prices do not wait for Russia in a market economy like the whole world and private business everywhere that will not produce at a loss - as the USSR did and without profit there will be no development.

                  ... I don’t remember what year it was (exactly after 2014), Ukraine, according to the same sources, experienced an unprecedented GDP growth. Our media for a week or the lips of various analysts, experts, economists that GDP is not an indicator at all. Now they do all the same exactly the opposite (propaganda?).
                  If we look at the growth of GDP in PPP since 1990, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan (these are from the former) have bypassed Russia. The first dozens of lines are occupied (except for China) by countries that do not appear on the news agenda.
                  In general, with this indicator, everything is very difficult, - different calculation methods, correction factors ... Let the economists chew. It's enough for me that the same tables also contain CIA data. IMHO, these ratings are a political instrument. Like the WHO, the IOC etc.

                  "... the most important indicator of how much you earned ..."
                  That's for sure! Probably, this is the motto of domestic officials - they take a solemn oath!
                  Of course, something goes into the budget, but neither you nor me, nor the refrigerator, nor the gas tank (because they also "earn" on this)
                  "..Russia in a market economy like the whole world and private business everywhere that will not produce at a loss .."
                  That's the trouble ... Forgive free medicine, education, and so on, so forth ...
                  I don’t know the profits of the USSR, but there was development, and the well-being of citizens grew. Yes, not at the pace of developed countries. But now, justifying "negative growth" they refer to third world countries ... Well, propaganda?
            2. Andrey sh
              Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 03
              0
              Are you sure that the economy was counted from that end?
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 28 January 2021 13: 21
                0
                Quote: Andrey sh
                Are you sure that the economy was counted from that end?

                Do not rack your brains, there Indians are generally in third place with their economy.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 45
                0
                The economy is formed by financial transactions in goods and services - for this, yes, everyone counted from that end according to GDP at PPP Russia is the 5th - and the standard of living is another conversation with Russia, it is on the 61st China on the 51st USA on the 11th. according to the human development index, Russia is on the 49th and on the 28th place in the ease of doing business - and do not forget in the world there are only a few countries against whose economies they have imposed such a large number of sanctions as against Russia, but unlike others, we live within our means with one of the lowest public debts in the world but who did not say what our economy since 2014 from the fall in oil prices by 50% of the numerous sanctions, restrictions on trade and the flight of investors every year loses from 200 to 350 billion dollars in turnover, and then you can not be surprised at the economic growth of 2-3% in annual everything is interconnected.
      2. Andrey sh
        Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 02
        +3
        Well, take 1999 and 2008. And look what Pu has been in charge for 8 years ...
    2. aleksejkabanets
      aleksejkabanets 26 January 2021 22: 21
      +4
      Quote: A_Lex
      That power and the current state are fundamentally different states ...

      Excellent, balanced, well-reasoned comment. And to top it off, an article from the profile resource "Who's Who in World Microelectronics": https://habr.com/ru/post/486326/
    3. alaarsen
      alaarsen 27 January 2021 02: 05
      +12
      standing ovation! These conversations about the 90s - it has been 21 years now .. while there was a period with oil prices of $ 145 ... a lot could be done in 20 years - once after the war the country was raised. and then everyone nods to the 90s. although - if already Polovtsy with Pechenegs recalled ...)))
      1. vitvit123
        vitvit123 27 January 2021 07: 47
        0
        You confuse warm and soft a little ... your idea is understandable and, in my opinion, correct, but the person above says that there were no "dashing" 90s .... to deny the difficult years of fucking and say that this does not need to be referred to these are different things! You need to be more pedantic .... otherwise everything is mixed into one mess.
        1. Aag
          Aag 27 January 2021 17: 38
          0
          Quote: vitvit123
          You confuse warm and soft a little ... your idea is understandable and, in my opinion, correct, but the person above says that there were no "dashing" 90s .... to deny the difficult years of fucking and say that this does not need to be referred to these are different things! You need to be more pedantic .... otherwise everything is mixed into one mess.

          Sorry, you, apparently, just from the mention of the 90s "got up" by putting into this term, which has become a household name, all the sorrows, troubles and tragedies of peoples, and individual citizens of the split and devoted Country ... Colleague A_Lex, IMHO, only about the economy of those years , and the reasons for "its further development" in the context of the article under discussion I wrote. And, in my opinion, very well-reasoned, and very beautiful ...
          1. vitvit123
            vitvit123 27 January 2021 17: 55
            +1
            Well, the fact that apparently YOU are your business, I can't, and I don't need to, to convince you of this ... but thanks for the fact that thanks to you I smiled and my mood improved a little (although it was not so bad) because of the words "got up" ... I will explain just in case .. on this site I witnessed many verbal duels, I got into some myself (with varying success) ... I met other very worthy people before (sorry they left the site) and not worthy .. I also sometimes thought about quitting this site, but for some reason I stayed, it was interesting to watch people, create my own opinion about who is who, etc. and over time for me it became just fun .. I like to make such comments - questions .. comments-questions are simple, somewhere stupid (I don't pretend to be smart) I know that it hurts and .... in general I am enough I told you so that you understand that you were mistaken in the fact that I got excited .. yes? It is my opponent who is overwhelmed (and that is possible), maybe you are overwhelmed, but definitely not me ... I have my weaknesses, and who does not ...
            And about the 90s ... I did not say that these are good or bad years! I asked ! If you want to know how I feel about that period, you can ask me, maybe then you will make a more correct opinion. Although I really don't like to talk about it, much less to prove it ..
            1. Aag
              Aag 27 January 2021 20: 04
              +1
              Quote: vitvit123
              Well, the fact that apparently YOU are your business, I can't, and I don't need to, to convince you of this ... but thanks for the fact that thanks to you I smiled and my mood improved a little (although it was not so bad) because of the words "got up" ... I will explain just in case .. on this site I witnessed many verbal duels, I got into some myself (with varying success) ... I met other very worthy people before (sorry they left the site) and not worthy .. I also sometimes thought about quitting this site, but for some reason I stayed, it was interesting to watch people, create my own opinion about who is who, etc. and over time for me it became just fun .. I like to make such comments - questions .. comments-questions are simple, somewhere stupid (I don't pretend to be smart) I know that it hurts and .... in general I am enough I told you so that you understand that you were mistaken in the fact that I got excited .. yes? It is my opponent who is overwhelmed (and that is possible), maybe you are overwhelmed, but definitely not me ... I have my weaknesses, and who does not ...
              And about the 90s ... I did not say that these are good or bad years! I asked ! If you want to know how I feel about that period, you can ask me, maybe then you will make a more correct opinion. Although I really don't like to talk about it, much less to prove it ..

              Thanks for the expanded, seemingly sincere answer. hi
              To be fair, believe me, the word "got up" from the whole comment was given with the greatest difficulty. Sorry, there was no more suitable word in "my attic".))
              Moreover, a significant part of your comment can be attributed to me. "Experience" in VO, I, of course, is more modest, but my interests partially coincide. With the difference that for me it is not "entertainment" yet, but interest (of course, in any in fact, professions, over time comes professional cynicism, it's good if healthy))). I went to the site, got a foothold based on the name "VO". Of course, over time, trolls, inadequate, "careerists" became visible ... But interesting are the opinions of experts in those topics in which I "do not catch up" ... well, and the balance of power in society (I agree, it was too wide) ... Verbal duels are interesting when they are essentially, within the bounds of decency, and are not reduced to "doo-ak himself!" ...
              I don’t see "agitation" in your opponent's comments. On the contrary ... And I didn't get excited. Although sometimes it happens.)) On the contrary, I wanted to smooth out the possible reaction.
              "... I didn't say they were good or bad years ..."
              I have not attributed any assessment to you.
              “I asked!” Neither the text nor the punctuation marks are noticeable.
              "... If you want to know how I feel about that period, you can ask me ..."
              I can. But, I think, if you want, tell it yourself. Do not consider it rude, just to the article, does not apply without reference, but will the rest of the participants be interested in it? Although, I-I, we are in the section "Opinions" ".. Here I am personally interested in the assessment of the 90s of the majority of the participants! There are personal impressions, opinions ... But, sometimes, not that contradictory ... Let's just say, ambiguous ... repeat
              1. vitvit123
                vitvit123 27 January 2021 20: 53
                +1
                About the 90s and the like (red, white, revolution, Stalin, etc.) it already seems to me generally stupid not only to argue, even to speak out loud, personally I do not want to, especially in the network, where all thoughts are needed through keyboard, and this is difficult ... although I, of course, have firm convictions, but these are my convictions that absolutely cannot change history .. therefore, as zealously I used to prove my case, so now I give this right to others ... and excuse me, but I will "prick" you in my first question, from which the controversy began, the question mark is clearly visible !!! Those. the punctuation mark is worth it !!! And it is clear that this is a question ... and in general I revised my comments in this thread again and did not want to change anything ... I do not communicate much here and of course, I may be wrong, but I try very hard to follow both the words and intonation. .. good luck ..
                1. Aag
                  Aag 27 January 2021 21: 45
                  0
                  Quote: vitvit123
                  About the 90s and the like (red, white, revolution, Stalin, etc.) it already seems to me generally stupid not only to argue, even to speak out loud, personally I do not want to, especially in the network, where all thoughts are needed through keyboard, and this is difficult ... although I, of course, have firm convictions, but these are my convictions that absolutely cannot change history .. therefore, as zealously I used to prove my case, so now I give this right to others ... and Excuse me, but I will "prick" you in my first question, from which the polemic began, the question mark is clearly visible !!! Those. the punctuation mark is worth it !!! And it is clear that this is a question ... and in general I revised my comments in this thread again and did not want to change anything ... I do not communicate much here and of course, I may be wrong, but I try very hard to follow both the words and intonation. ..
                  good luck ..

                  Strikingly, the first part of your post is identical to my conclusions. Except, maybe the main thing: you have "strong convictions", I have all the big doubts, and ignorance ...))
                  Regarding the second, conditionally, part of the comment ...
                  "... I try very hard to follow both words and intonation ..."
                  Imagine the same situevina ... Therefore, I have to answer. Here is your comment, to which I wrote my first post:
                  "You confuse warm and soft a little ... your idea is understandable and, in my opinion, correct, but the person above says that there were no" dashing "90s .... to deny the difficult years of fucking and say that it is not necessary to refer to it different things! You have to be more pedantic .... otherwise everything is mixed into one mess. "
                  ... I agree, leapfrog happens, - I had it too. It was nice to communicate. drinks
                  1. vitvit123
                    vitvit123 28 January 2021 07: 47
                    0
                    There, in black in Russian, a person wrote that the dashing 90s are a LIE ... and he writes that it is not necessary to refer to this, in his opinion, because this is a lie .. I then asked him a question: does he consider, in this case, the years of ebna's rule a good development of the country, where there was a question mark ... everything is very clear there, he did not answer my question specifically,
                    He "blurred" his answer that the country was still developing by inertia, etc. I asked for specifics and then you decided to "put everything in its place" .... you are a little more attentive to your leapfrog ..
                    And I will ask again: do you see question marks in my first comment? Yes, and in some subsequent ones, otherwise you wrote to me that you have problems with this .. there they are, if anything, ask your children to look, they will confirm ..
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 27
      -3
      There are no "dashing 90s". And there is only a stable degradation that began in the 90s, intensified in the 00s, and intensified in the 10s. And all figures speak eloquently about this degradation, starting with the same decreasing in quantitative terms space launches, to the forced use of old Soviet projects in the course of the rearmament process. You know what has changed since the 90s and why it happened as you described in some areas - you may want everything you want with the state, but everyone will buy only what suits them, alas, domestic machines and so on are not in the foreground since the market is open and present competition to impose or force to buy domestic products, the state cannot, and the USSR in the civil sector produced little worthy buckets of bolts, as well as mass-produced rubbish that is physically morally obsolete, now no one needs it in the USSR because there was nothing else and the borders were closed and factories who produced all this trash will slowly die from physical deterioration of the lack of competitive products and the huge costs of their maintenance and lack of demand for these products. The number of space launches now also depends on the wishes of the client - the space is expanding Russia is not launching satellites alone.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 7,62h54
    7,62h54 26 January 2021 22: 10
    +6
    Achievements in agriculture are such that imports of milk and cheese increased by about 2014% compared to 15. And also the question was raised what would sell small potatoes and crooked cucumbers. It is better to keep silent about food prices, only the ellipsis.
    In micro electronics, the result will be the same.
    1. Andrey sh
      Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 05
      0
      With milk, not everything is so bad, but with the rest - ass ...
  • bar
    bar 26 January 2021 22: 13
    +5
    once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world, our country is now forced to acquire microelectronics in other countries.

    Once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world, our country has never been in the forefront in the field of microelectronics. We must honestly admit it. "Soviet microcircuits are the largest microcircuits in the world" - this joke is still from the USSR. Since then, it has only become much worse, and it is unlikely to fix it. The maximum that is possible is to produce some kind of critical microelectronics of our own design (for example, the same Elbrus processors) on outdated equipment purchased in the same China. But we can't even talk about any super-nanometers. sad
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. bar
        bar 28 January 2021 08: 14
        -1
        Be rude boy. It is strange that you were not banned.
    2. Andrey sh
      Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 11
      -2
      We have never suffered from the idiocy of making everything smaller and smaller and replacing all equipment with new ones every 5 years. Automatics planted Buran in the late 80s, in the United States they could repeat this after 20 years ... There were also serious excesses, but about the lag - a complete lie. The lag went along with "perestroika". An acquaintance was in 2006-2007 in Japan - 486 PCs and taxis in the early 90s at work.
      1. bar
        bar 28 January 2021 11: 24
        0
        Quote: Andrey sh
        The excesses were also serious, but about the backlog - a complete lie.

        You are probably not in the know about our electronics since the USSR. Have not heard about "transistors of the 1st acceptance, 2nd acceptance ..." etc. You do not know about the left-wing schemes for purchasing critical electronics components for our military-industrial complex and space in Japan and the United States through dummies. And I know sad
        1. Andrey sh
          Andrey sh 28 January 2021 13: 26
          0
          But you probably are not aware of the US purchase of Soviet bipolar transistors. And about the same purchases of Soviet devices and systems. Especially the military.
          1. bar
            bar 28 January 2021 13: 42
            0
            Quote: Andrey sh
            But you probably are not aware of the US purchase of Soviet transistors

            I'm not an American, so I don't know about it. I am aware of what I bought myself, because domestic analogues were either absolutely unusable, or there were no analogues at all.
            Especially familiar with power transistors for control systems of powerful electric drives. It's not even "micro" electronics, what can we say about micro. sad
            1. Andrey sh
              Andrey sh 1 March 2021 14: 24
              0
              What you needed to know about what you knew. There were problems with the silovukha, as well as with miniaturization. But this is not always critical at all. There were no analogues abroad either. But in terms of reliability, not all imports exceeded Soviet parts. Consumer goods were not very good for us and for the same Americans. And left-wing purchases have been and will be. Starting from banal copying of successful solutions to comparing opportunities.
      2. nsm1
        nsm1 28 January 2021 17: 59
        +2
        Quote: Andrey sh
        Automatics planted Buran in the late 80s, in the United States they could repeat this after 20 years ...
        This is nothing more than an urban legend.
        Shuttle always, from the very beginning they sat down automatically.
        The pilots only pressed two buttons and braked on the runway until a certain moment.
        Only the computer was always maneuvering.
        Read more in Feynman, "Does it Matter What Others Think?":
        But the most impressive thing is the fit.
        Once the astronauts know where they are supposed to land, they press one of three buttons - labeled Edwards, White Sands, and Kennedy - that tell the computer where the shuttle is going to land.
        Then several small rockets slow it down a little and inject it into the atmosphere at an almost right angle. This is a dangerous stage during which the entire skin heats up.

        During this time, the astronauts see nothing, and everything changes so quickly that the descent must be done automatically.
        At an altitude of about 35 feet, the shuttle decelerates below the speed of sound and can be manually operated if necessary.
        But at 4 feet, something happens that the computer cannot do: the pilot presses a button to release the landing gear.

        It seemed to me very strange - some kind of nonsense, taking into account the psychology of the pilots: in the eyes of the public they are heroes; they all have the impression that they were in control of the shuttle's flight, when in fact they don't have to do anything at all until the moment they press the button to release the landing gear.
        They cannot bear the thought that in fact they have nothing to do.

        I figured it would be safer if the computer would release the landing gear, given the possibility that the astronauts could be unconscious for whatever reason.
        The software engineers agreed and added that it is very dangerous to release the chassis at the wrong time.

        The engineers told me that ground control can send a signal to release the landing gear, this backup control is activated at a certain point in time if the pilot, being semi-conscious, did not release the landing gear before that moment.
        It would be much better if all this was done entirely by the computer.

        Usually the pilots also controlled the brakes.
        But this created a lot of problems: if you brake too hard at the beginning, the brake pad will wear off completely when you reach the end of the runway - and you are still moving!
        Therefore, the programmers were asked to create a braking control computer program.
        At first, the astronauts vigorously objected to these changes, but now they are very pleased that automatic braking works so well.
  • Avior
    Avior 26 January 2021 22: 27
    +7
    ... If the state continues to invest in high-tech industry, ensures the restoration of the resource base and is able to reduce imports of the same rare earth metals, while not forgetting to finance technical education and pay normal salaries to employees, then ...

    Let's be honest, there are too many of these “ifs” :(
    1. alaarsen
      alaarsen 27 January 2021 02: 09
      +2
      especially for this state .. it was easier to write -if there is another state (in the sense of domestic policy)
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 26 January 2021 22: 55
    0
    Quote: Undecim
    And where is polysilicon produced in Russia?

    Should I reply with a link or a quote?
    1. Aag
      Aag 27 January 2021 18: 12
      0
      Quote: Svetlana
      Quote: Undecim
      And where is polysilicon produced in Russia?

      Should I reply with a link or a quote?

      Sorry, the first thing that came out, I don't want to read further: "OJSC RUSNANO has received the approval of the Russian government to close the Nitol project for the production of polycrystalline silicon in the city of Usolye-Sibirskoye (Irkutsk region) and is working on a new project for the production of elements of equipment for solar energy , Anatoly Chubais, chairman of the board of RUSNANO, told reporters in Moscow.

      “The government, at the level of deputy prime minister, approved a proposal to terminate the project in its current configuration,” Chubais said. "The proposal to launch a new project was assessed as interesting, and its implementation is left to our discretion."

      According to Anatoly Chubais, a new project has been preliminarily worked out, there are plans for a technological partnership, for attracting co-investors to the project. "
      They all drain!
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 26 January 2021 22: 55
    +1
    We will never be able to catch up with either the United States or China from the world leaders in microelectronics, since our domestic market for these goods is several times smaller, and we will not be allowed to enter the international market with duties and sanctions.

    We would mostly satisfy our needs and it would be nice.
    1. nsm1
      nsm1 27 January 2021 02: 17
      +3
      What does the market have to do with it?
      We are a lot can not buy on the market, that is, completely.
      Even the simplest mikruhi are required to indicate the project, show that he is not a military man, etc.
      And not easy at all.
      Of course, you can workarounds, with 5-8 times overpayment ...
      But this is not an option.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 27 January 2021 10: 25
        0
        What does the market have to do with it?


        Despite the fact that in order to recoup the investment, you need your own large market or access to other markets where so many units of goods will be bought, which will allow the enterprise to work in profit.

        Compare the markets that the US, Japan, China and ours have access to.

        For example, tomorrow they will make a Russian analogue of the iPhone, and what do you think it will be allowed into the USA and Europe with China? See how they crush the same Kaspersky or the same Huawei.

        Even if our products are in no way inferior to competitors, we will still sell less, there will be less revenue and profit, less resources for development. We will always be inferior in electronics to the West and China.

        The main thing is that this lag is not cretistic.

        Therefore, I think it is correct to shout not that Russia needs to become the leader in electronics and start making its own iPhone, but it is enough to at least provide itself with everything you need from TVs to locally made computers from processors to cases, both household and industrial and military.

        The fact that we are moving in this direction is already good.

        And the goals must be set real, then the result will be positive.
        1. nsm1
          nsm1 27 January 2021 22: 15
          0
          You are implicitly making the assumption that there is a market.
          But he is not.
          Many positions are not sold to us at all, for any price.
          There is no domestic market.
          Or yours or nothing.
        2. Andrey sh
          Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 15
          0
          Who's stopping to press the same way? For example, to limit the supply of the same titanium to the United States, to spit and supply materials to whom it is profitable - just to withdraw from all international sanctions against other countries and introduce our own. And this is openly voiced.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 43
        -1
        We cannot buy much on the market, that is, at all. You cannot for what others who have outsourcing can.
        1. nsm1
          nsm1 27 January 2021 22: 18
          0
          Absolutely.
          And we can outbid them with an overpayment.
          Only it is not reliable.
          Read about mediator litigation.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 28 January 2021 00: 17
            -3
            I buy machines and equipment without extra charge on acquaintance - and yes, the intermediaries know what risks they are taking, that is, they are aware of it.
            1. nsm1
              nsm1 28 January 2021 01: 54
              -1
              Are these machines on the sanctions lists?
              1. Andrey sh
                Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 16
                -1
                So these microcircuits are not in these lists either. Moreover, there are a lot of analogues from other companies.
                1. nsm1
                  nsm1 28 January 2021 11: 18
                  0
                  I won't say for sure about specific lists, but all analogs with exactly the same icon.
                  Restriction on parameters, not designation.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 47
                -1
                There are three models - all machining centers.
                1. nsm1
                  nsm1 28 January 2021 16: 55
                  +2
                  And no extra charge at all ?!
                  And then the point is to bother the intermediary?
  • ANB
    ANB 26 January 2021 23: 06
    +4
    ... pay normal salaries to employees,

    And that’s all over.
    Private traders will not invest in this. And the state-owned enterprise will consider that 50 tr is enough for an engineer-developer (otherwise the director and his deputies will not be enough for a sweet life).
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 27 January 2021 08: 54
      +7
      You still generously metered out the salary.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. nsm1
      nsm1 28 January 2021 10: 30
      +3
      50 tr to an engineer is a dream job.
  • General failure
    General failure 26 January 2021 23: 25
    +7
    Who will need Russian 2025 nm chips in 14

    The question is also asked: "Who (in the world) will need Russian 5nm chips?"
    Answer: "Yes, especially to anyone."
    The invisible hand has decided everything for a long time. This market is fully mastered and not by us. To gnaw out a share on it is a long, thankless and risky task.

    That is, even if there is a chipmaker in Russia, it will have one market - a domestic Russian one. And, as you know, we don't make iPhones. But they make modern weapons, nuclear power plants, send all kinds of things into space, and it would not hurt to clean the communication networks from American and Chinese junk with bookmarks.

    That is, industrial electronics. Which in 99.99% of cases does not require small nanometers at all. Small nanometers are good in laptops and smartphones, where power consumption is critical. But they are also contraindicated for work in aggressive environments such as a reactor or space or military. The main thing there is fault tolerance, where small nanometers do not rule at all. And in space - especially - there, in general, the technical processes of the chips are classified.

    That is, the Rostec program, it seems to me, is quite realistic. "Let's quietly descend the mountain and take away the whole herd," maybe. The goals that it sets are quite achievable, and when they are achieved, then you can continue to look towards small nanometers.

    At least we already have working fabless chipmakers - MCST and Baikal (Baikal is generally new). While they are printing chips from TSMC. Rostec will build a 28nm fab - they will print with us.
    1. The eye of the crying
      The eye of the crying 26 January 2021 23: 36
      +2
      Quote: General Failure
      MCST and Baikal (Baikal is generally new). While they are printing chips from TSMC. Rostec will build a 28nm fab - they will print with us.


      Will Rostec build? EMNIP, even the finished 65nm line could not be mastered.
      1. General failure
        General failure 26 January 2021 23: 41
        0
        Duc, in any case - faba - it's expensive and not very profitable (the market is divided). A private trader will not do this. Only the state.

        And what about the AMD-shnoy line from Dresden - I'm real xs. They bought it crookedly. It may well be that it was impossible to launch it.
        1. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 26 January 2021 23: 46
          -1
          Quote: General Failure
          It may well be that it was impossible to launch it.


          If there are no specialists in Russia who can evaluate the line being purchased, then it's a kapets.

          Quote: General Failure
          and not very profitable (the market is divided)


          In this case, it is better not to build it, because it will be unprofitable by definition smile But even a divided market can be squeezed into.
          1. General failure
            General failure 26 January 2021 23: 48
            -1
            Faba is actually needed. And precisely for import substitution.
            If Taiwan (TSMC) refuses to print Elbrus from the supply of mattress toppers, it will not be too fun.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 26 January 2021 23: 49
              -1
              It will almost never pay off on import substitution.
              1. nsm1
                nsm1 27 January 2021 01: 59
                +1
                Well, let.
                It's not about payback at all.
                Right now we are not shipping fast multi-bit ADCs, many FPGAs, especially those with an extended temperature range.
                Go to the moser, there is even a special badge.
                These accounting problems are inherently tertiary and not important.
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 11: 04
                  0
                  Quote: nsm1

                  Quote: Eye of the Crying
                  It will almost never pay off on import substitution.

                  Well, let.


                  Too much money? I see.

                  Quote: nsm1
                  We are not shipping fast multi-bit ADCs right now, many FPGAs


                  Aha, and the fab will appear - they will immediately start.
                  1. nsm1
                    nsm1 27 January 2021 11: 14
                    +3
                    Quote: Eye of the Crying
                    Too much money? I see.
                    Where are you writing now?
                    On the military resource!
                    The army is completely unprofitable ...
                    And requires lot money.
                    But subscription is required!
                    Quote: Eye of the Crying
                    Aha, and the fab will appear - they will immediately start.

                    They will never start, with a 99% probability
                    Only its.

                    This is not a question of the market; there is no market as such, due to prohibitions.
                    PS:
                    Here's your marketplace - not supplied, period.
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 11: 16
                      0
                      Quote: nsm1
                      The army is completely unprofitable ...
                      And it requires a lot of money.
                      But necessary!


                      Let's add more losses, otherwise NATO soldiers will add them.

                      Quote: nsm1
                      They will never start, with a 99% probability
                      Only yours.


                      First you need to develop your own.
                      1. nsm1
                        nsm1 27 January 2021 11: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        First you need to develop your own.
                        Development is underway.
                        And this is not only Elbrus.
                        But if Taiwan closes ...
                        Generally - its necessary.
                        And economic bullshit is not appropriate here.
                      2. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 11: 28
                        -1
                        Quote: nsm1
                        Development is underway.


                        FPGA development? Sure sure. The results make me cry.

                        Quote: nsm1
                        economic nonsense is not relevant here.


                        Because ... ?
                      3. nsm1
                        nsm1 27 January 2021 11: 32
                        -1
                        Quote: Eye of the Crying
                        Because ... ?
                        Because!
                        As you rightly wrote - NATO soldiers will cause losses, but this is such a trifle that you shouldn't even remember ...
                        They will cripple many more, kill and resist more than one Abu Ghraib.
                      4. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 27 January 2021 11: 33
                        -1
                        Quote: nsm1
                        NATO soldiers will cause damage

                        Quote: nsm1
                        They will cripple many more, kill and resist more than one Abu Ghraib.


                        Clear.
      2. UserGun
        UserGun 27 January 2021 09: 32
        -9
        Will not refuse. They look and smile from the side, but do the kids, make your own toys))) Elbrus is generally not needed by anyone. From the word at all. The tales of his performance miracle are just tales. Here, of course, you need it for cheap show-off !!! ))) So that another close-minded person could brush away a stingy tear: - We can ...)))
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 27 January 2021 10: 22
          +3
          Quote: UserGun
          Will not refuse. They look and smile from the side, but do the kids, make your own toys))) Elbrus is generally not needed by anyone. From the word at all. The tales of his performance miracle are just tales. Here, of course, you need it for cheap show-off !!! ))) So that another close-minded person could brush away a stingy tear: - We can ...)))

          It is not needed abroad, but on its own market it is needed, or rather not on the market, because there is no alternative and it is being promoted forcibly, but in any case it is necessary to get rid of foreign programs and technology because it is critical in case of emergency. Another question is that at any moment it can refuse to do
          1. UserGun
            UserGun 27 January 2021 11: 39
            -5
            And why do what is known to be unprofitable and flawed? Why turn it upside down and be proud of it? And make excuses, make excuses, make excuses ...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 50
              0
              For the military, they will do it for government agencies too - but for the civilian as required.
              1. UserGun
                UserGun 27 January 2021 22: 48
                -5
                But what will be the demand if the poor population does not cope with such a price ?! No, well, warriors with bureaucrats do not care, they do not buy for their own, they buy in blood. It is natural to buy the population that is faster, better and cheaper, and therefore, as I wrote above, it will be deliberately unprofitable and flawed. However, this is already predicted by all the sane, who are in the subject.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 28 January 2021 00: 20
                  0
                  A small niche will still remain for them.
                2. UserGun
                  UserGun 28 January 2021 07: 38
                  -5
                  The code word is small, and it is still said loudly.
              2. nsm1
                nsm1 28 January 2021 10: 19
                +1
                Quote: UserGun
                It is natural to buy the population which is faster, better and cheaper
                And then it turns out that this "faster, better and cheaper" came under the sanctions and nothing.
                Not better, not worse, but not at all.
                It is understandable that you will declare: "intel will always be!"
                So take an interest in history - the i486 was under COCOM restrictions.
                They can repeat, for one or two ...
              3. UserGun
                UserGun 28 January 2021 11: 35
                -4
                Is it nothing that at the time of the 486th, prohibitively expensive, at that time, our population chose a cheap Z80? ))) So by. By the way, the Z80 could still be stolen and produced at home, on steep lines, but now even 386 is an epic file.
              4. nsm1
                nsm1 28 January 2021 16: 26
                0
                No fairy tales - i486 was massive a product with a huge circulation ...
                And it was banned when it was already shipped in millions.
                Voshchem - one or two can repeat!
                Our market share is not large at all.

                However, if the price is so important to you - xeons, epyc will be closed and what's next?
                What to do
                Shout and jump?

                No, exclude their use by government agencies in advance!
                In the army, already critical systems have been transferred ...
              5. UserGun
                UserGun 29 January 2021 07: 37
                -2
                Quote: nsm1
                No need for fairy tales - the i486 was a mass product, with a huge circulation ...
                And it was banned when it was already shipped in millions.


                Are you out of your mind? And what year was that? Proof in the studio.
              6. nsm1
                nsm1 29 January 2021 07: 52
                -3
                I'm in my own, but you - I don't know.
                Such long-standing events have left few traces in Runet, it was essentially not there then.
                Will the penny go?
                This processor, which is 3-5 times faster than the i486 and costs (when delivered in a batch of 1000, depending on the clock frequency) $ 878- $ 965, most likely will not appear in Russia before October - obtaining a license from KOCOM to import it into Russia will take just that long.
                This is 1993, May, the height of love for America, https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/7919
                But there were restrictions.
                Two Americans even sat in the hydromet, making sure that military missions were not carried out on the Amov supercomputer.
                These are all generally known facts, who is to blame for not knowing them ...
              7. UserGun
                UserGun 29 January 2021 08: 52
                -2
                I thought so))) There will be no proofs))) It's funny, yes, to carry a blizzard, hoping that it will ride over the years, and even without proofs))) However, I remember that time very well and even bought this particular 486- th on the radio market in Tushino, since there were no computer storage facilities))) 1991 !!! Karl, yes! Expensive, compared to the 286th, but the game was worth the candle))) And in 1994 CoCom ceased to exist, this is so, a reminder for the future, since it did not work in recent years (somewhere since the late 80s) from the word completely, therefore it was closed for uselessness. You need to be more careful with such misinformation, people have not all died out since that time.
              8. nsm1
                nsm1 29 January 2021 08: 59
                -2
                Oh, don't la-la just now!
                There is a proof - obtaining a license for six months.
                Consumer products required US government approval.
                Any doubts?

                It was even longer for 486, ready-made computers were imported through India to get around.
                KOCOM has ceased to exist, but restrictions have been reborn!
                Any doubts?

                And in the same way, mass consumer products can fall under them.
                Any doubts?

                However, this is a matter of faith.
                If you really believe in "good America, hail on a hill", it makes no sense to persuade.
              9. UserGun
                UserGun 29 January 2021 09: 08
                -3
                Sorry, but you are very narrow-minded. It's even funnier to watch your crows, without a base, without anything at all))) Just like using a training manual, you spar it)))
              10. nsm1
                nsm1 29 January 2021 09: 12
                -2
                So was COCOM or not ?!
                Simple question.
                Were consumer products covered?
                Simple question.
                Are there any restrictions now?
                Simple question.
              11. UserGun
                UserGun 29 January 2021 09: 22
                -3
                Hospadya ... Personally, my lies were yours, initially aroused interest when I just compared the dates))) And note, it was you who began to carry the blizzard about:

                Year of construction
                Quote: nsm1
                i486 was under COCOM restrictions.


                You can't throw out the words from your drunken pestnyak))) At least try to wag your tail, translating to other topics and from empty to empty))) Stupid. Well, crap, it happens)))
              12. nsm1
                nsm1 29 January 2021 09: 25
                -2
                Ha ha ha !!!
                Have fun!
                Someone else is screwed up here!
                What links, not a single argument at all - only "America is kind, will not give up" ...
                Rakh that went into the thread, laughter prolongs life, they say ...
                The mood definitely raises!
                PS:
                i486 was under COCOM restrictions.
                Was-was!
                And there was a pentium, you can't erase a word from a song!
              13. UserGun
                UserGun 29 January 2021 09: 33
                -3
                All clear. Another dummy, without knowledge of history, at least in particular, without proofs, without anything at all ...

                Goodbye, and next time, don't be so frank)))
              14. nsm1
                nsm1 29 January 2021 09: 41
                -2
                Something you are one and the same, one and the same ...
                Why repetition?
                Aaaaa - I will say "halva" a hundred times - it will become sweeter in the company!
                Cool and funny!
        2. Ua3qhp
          Ua3qhp 30 January 2021 18: 58
          +1
          Of course there are, they have never been canceled.
          Here on electronics
          Commerce Control List 2019, Fresh.
          https://www.learnexportcompliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CCL3.pdf
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 28 January 2021 10: 28
    +1
    Quote: UserGun
    And why do what is known to be unprofitable and flawed? Why turn it upside down and be proud of it? And make excuses, make excuses, make excuses ...

    Apparently it doesn't reach you. We can't do better yet, but we need to switch to a protected product. But pride is already secondary.
    1. UserGun
      UserGun 28 January 2021 11: 29
      0
      How can it be protected if it is produced outside of its own country? Did it ever occur to you?
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 28 January 2021 13: 16
        -1
        Quote: UserGun
        How can it be protected if it is produced outside of its own country? Did it ever occur to you?

        How do you make changes to the topology? Will you draw extra transistors?
      2. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 13: 26
        0
        Read about the hardware tabs implemented during production. It is possible.
      3. nsm1
        nsm1 28 January 2021 16: 27
        0
        The mask sent to the factory can be compared to the reference one.
      4. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 19: 18
        0
        Naturally, in this case, the factory uses a different mask. And a ready-made chip cannot be compared with a reference mask.
      5. nsm1
        nsm1 28 January 2021 19: 19
        -1
        You can read how they are etched in layers.
      6. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 19: 20
        0
        This has not worked on modern chips for a long time.
      7. nsm1
        nsm1 28 January 2021 19: 22
        -1
        The top is still possible
      8. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 19: 24
        +1
        Bookmarkers won't make it easy to find. However, stay in your opinion. I wonder how many Elbrus made by enemies have been checked smile
      9. nsm1
        nsm1 28 January 2021 19: 27
        -1
        Selectively checked ...
        Maybe that's all.
        Do not worry about this, with paranoia everything is normal with us!
      10. The eye of the crying
        The eye of the crying 28 January 2021 19: 29
        +1
        Quote: nsm1
        Selectively checked ...
        Maybe that's all.


        Yeah, everything was etched in layers. You don't seem to know what "layer-by-layer etching" means. laughing

        Quote: nsm1
        with paranoia, everything is normal!


        When someone else pays for it.
      11. UserGun
        UserGun 29 January 2021 09: 02
        -3
        You have good grass, zaboristy! Where did you get it? After all, apparently, you only saw the processor production technology in funny pictures.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 29 January 2021 13: 06
    0
    Quote: Eye of the Crying
    Read about the hardware tabs implemented during production. It is possible.

    Hardware bookmarks can be done on your own development, although you may be right
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 29 January 2021 13: 09
    -1
    It's about implementation into someone else's finished development. In its own way, obviously you can.
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 30 January 2021 19: 01
    0
    It's impossible.
    The customer will see such a topology change immediately.
    After such a trick, not a single customer will have anything to do with this factory.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 30 January 2021 19: 17
    -1
    No, the customer does not see. Even if you want to find a change, it is difficult or simply impossible (if it is in a deep layer), and if the chip is working correctly, why should the customer look for it at all?
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 31 January 2021 13: 20
    0
    The customer transfers the finished topology to the factory. to implement a bookmark, you need to know what kind of device is being manufactured, to reverse engineer it in topology, implement your own bookmark, and reverse synthesis of the topology. Moreover, so that the appearance of the crystal does not change and that the finished product works as planned by the customer and all this is done in 2-3 months. Unreal.
  • The eye of the crying
    The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 13: 27
    -1
    I am too lazy to look for articles describing the real implementation again, so we will assume that you won.
  • UserGun
    UserGun 29 January 2021 08: 59
    -1
    What's stopping ?! ))) Will you cut the body and check it ?! ))) Do you even have a tool for this ?! )))
  • nsm1
    nsm1 29 January 2021 09: 07
    -3
    Is this really?
    Why cut it?
    Casing is a separate operation; rather, even we do it.
  • UserGun
    UserGun 29 January 2021 09: 12
    -2
    Quote: nsm1
    rather


    So I turned out to be right))) funny pictures))) So sooner or for sure ?! )))
  • Ua3qhp
    Ua3qhp 27 January 2021 09: 12
    0
    There is a suspicion that lines with topological norms less than 7 nm will never pay off. Just compare the cost of the line and the number of microcircuits that need to be released to pay off the project.
  • UserGun
    UserGun 27 January 2021 09: 23
    0
    Quote: General Failure
    Rostec will build a 28nm fab - they will print with us.


    Rostec assilival 5 years, Karl !, bought in Germany FAB35. All this time it was lying in a warehouse, as we say, in responsible storage, in the Netherlands))) What are you going to build there ?! Buy, this can be, but who will sell you ?!
  • Andrey sh
    Andrey sh 28 January 2021 11: 24
    0
    And where will they go if there are finished products? But for this, at least taxes on energy and fuels and lubricants should be removed, VAT should be abolished, the operating mode of foreign enterprises in the country should be tightened, GOST standards and fines for their violation should be introduced, a pricing policy that would leave a quality product on the market - let the screwdriver collection from garbage Africa is being introduced. Prices for everything will finally rise to the point where it makes sense to produce goods, not garbage. For example, a refrigerator has broken down for 10 years seriously, so let's not repair it for half its price - the manufacturer will completely recycle it at its own expense. Moreover, it is disposed of with processing, and not thrown into a landfill.
  • Kushka
    Kushka 26 January 2021 23: 53
    -1
    What are we talking about - how to create a CHIP? Let's create!
    And who will create the equipment on which they will
    to produce this CHIP? And who will release a lot of this
    equipment, what would this CHIP be mass-produced?
    And even this will happen, then will it not happen that and that
    and another, by that time it will be possible to throw it in the trash?
    Because they will go even further.
    1. boriz
      boriz 27 January 2021 02: 10
      0
      You can buy it. Who will work on this equipment? There are no specialists anymore, there is no one to prepare them. And this is many years.
      1. UserGun
        UserGun 27 January 2021 12: 58
        -2
        Late. Now they will not sell it to you, even at an overpriced, or even an order of magnitude, price. Well, someone also needs to work. In general, anyway, it turns out that nothing works and from here there is only one way out - to place it on the side.
  • kytx
    kytx 27 January 2021 00: 48
    0
    what the hell are the 90s ?!
    the decline of electronics in the Soviet Union began at the turn of 50-60 or a little later
    it's a mystery to me why they didn't betray this meaning, well, at least in a military sense
    now we have a strategic backwardness
    which in the current conditions can not be overcome
    1. Nestor Vlakhovski
      Nestor Vlakhovski 27 January 2021 02: 04
      -2
      the decline of electronics in the Soviet Union began at the turn of 50-60
      We wrote honestly, there has never been a competitive electronics either in the USSR, or even more so in Russia. There have been periods when the backlog was closing, for example under Khrushchev, but this cannot be called leadership.
      why didn't they betray this meaning, well, at least in a military sense
      They have always attached importance, but high-tech industries cannot be developed out of hand, for them it is necessary to create conditions that are still absent.
      1. kytx
        kytx 27 January 2021 12: 34
        0
        the first computer in Europe appeared in the USSR
        so at first everything was on the level
        1. Nestor Vlakhovski
          Nestor Vlakhovski 28 January 2021 00: 20
          -2
          Are you serious now, or are you just joking so specifically?
          Here you have to be careful with humor, faith is strong.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. UserGun
              UserGun 28 January 2021 09: 19
              0
              And what is there to learn, Nestor Vlakhovski is right.
          2. UserGun
            UserGun 28 January 2021 09: 20
            0
            These guys not only joke specifically, their brains are very extraordinary)))
  • Redsun
    Redsun 27 January 2021 01: 42
    +1
    Well I do not know. Does it make sense to catch up with the same China in microelectronics? It seems to me that it is enough to provide government agencies with their electronics, mainly, of course, the army and special services, and people and private companies can easily exist on imported ones. Even if it is suddenly possible to create a high-tech production practically from scratch, we will not be able to withstand the competition. Who will we supply? There are no campaigns like BBK, Huawei, Xiaomi, Samsung, Apple. Will the above go to our electronics? Why exactly? Both China and Korea and the United States are protecting their producers. This market has long been divided, we have no place in it. At the same time, Russia is in no way technologically backward and feels great in another high-tech industry - in the nuclear industry.
    1. kytx
      kytx 27 January 2021 12: 38
      +1
      I'm not talking about everyday life
      there is also industry, military-industrial complexes, space and other other
      any automation
      for example, I saw controllers of Czech production at a strategic facility - this is not the case
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 January 2021 00: 22
      0
      The Chinese have all European equipment for the production of microelectronics.
      1. nsm1
        nsm1 28 January 2021 16: 29
        +2
        Don't worry, there will be Chinese in the coming years.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 January 2021 18: 33
          -1
          The Chinese will not be as hopelessly lagging behind in this area as in jet engines of high power gas turbines and much more.
          1. nsm1
            nsm1 28 January 2021 18: 41
            +2
            So they have already made the engines.
            And the Chinese cannot hopelessly lag behind, in principle - "In China, an engineer from Taiwan can earn an annual salary in 4 months", https://3dnews.ru/976921
            Taiwanese manufacturers are already facing a situation when they cannot find specialists to attract to work on the island.
  • nsm1
    nsm1 27 January 2021 01: 54
    -1
    while in Russia they plan to develop the production of chips with 14 nm standards, such chips have been used in the iPhone for the sixth year, and modern models have 7 nm chips
    This is all marketing, the length of the channel has not changed for a long time, more details here: https://habr.com/ru/post/423575/
  • KCA
    KCA 27 January 2021 04: 17
    0
    Processors for the iPhone are made by TSMC, not an American company at all, and Foxxcon assembles them, too, far from Omeriga, why cite them as an example? And who, in general, needs Russian chips besides Russia? Then, if you develop your own chips, and not clone someone else's, the technical process is not the most important thing, especially since for military and space needs, the larger the transistor in the chip, the better
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 January 2021 00: 24
      -1
      So Russia is one of the few countries that just develops microchips and processors.
      1. KCA
        KCA 28 January 2021 04: 47
        +2
        I know, even a friend of mine at MCST worked in the 90s, told how they were thrown by Sun, made a joint venture, stolen all the developments, developments and ideas, and then they said that they did not need any more joint ventures and dumped, now Oracle uses our own developments, and ours, ours, of course, did not patent anything and did not copy it according to the old Soviet habit
  • VicktorVR
    VicktorVR 27 January 2021 04: 33
    +3
    And why did they stick to nm?
    Will you decide what you want to make microcircuits for?
    For military equipment or iPhones?
    Completely different things.
    In general, iPhones should be equated to luxury and taxed, 50 percent of the cost of the first three years after release.
  • evgen1221
    evgen1221 27 January 2021 07: 10
    +1
    The successes in (import substitution) agricultural products are especially impressive in the last couple of months with the rise in prices for these products in our stores.
  • Daniil Konovalenko
    Daniil Konovalenko 27 January 2021 08: 00
    +4
    I read the comments, somehow so not noticeably from problems in radio electronics they switched to chickens. How does this intersect? "Wherever they say, All one thing will be reduced to women!" (C)
  • adler87
    adler87 27 January 2021 08: 15
    +2
    The nineties have already ended 21 years ago. What have you been doing for the last 20 years?
  • canurodes
    canurodes 27 January 2021 08: 51
    +3
    Let the Asians plow day and night, and Vanya is at the stove, he wants to cut the dough quickly, we give them furs and pearls, and they give us all sorts of overseas things
  • BAI
    BAI 27 January 2021 10: 02
    +1
    Over the past decade, both state leaders and independent experts have often and a lot talked about the need for import substitution of goods.

    That's it. Just talking, creating all sorts of programs and roadmaps, all the funding goes to them. Nothing comes to research institutes and factories (from funding).
  • steelmaker
    steelmaker 27 January 2021 10: 09
    0
    "It will take a very long time to catch up with the really developed countries in this area."
    With the current government, we can only dream. Mediocrity !!!
  • Ruby
    Ruby 27 January 2021 10: 17
    0
    We will never catch up with China in everyday life. And no one can catch up with him. Look at the finished products (electronics), how long have you seen something made outside of China? The West itself brought its factories there. The same states have, in fact, only those production facilities that work in the military-industrial complex. And there it is really not so critical on what technology the CHIP is made. From the fact that it will weigh a few grams less or more, nothing will change. This is not a smartphone, where manufacturers fight for every gram of weight.
  • was-witek
    was-witek 27 January 2021 13: 25
    -1
    It is already positive that the Government understands the importance of the industry
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 27 January 2021 14: 30
    0
    In order to get a technical process for a given dimension, you need a so-called. "silicon factory" - a high-tech plant for the production of chips for a given dimension. The wrong country is mastering the production of chips that bought or otherwise acquired the silicon factory. Mastering the production of components, this is mastering the design and production of a silicon factory!
    Where did our people get such a factory, the same one, at 14nm, I don't know. There is a fact - we cannot repeat it. Even this very outdated one. Can not. Not to mention making your own work.
    In a neighboring topic, someone boasted that in our country there are "3500 enterprises producing microelectronic components, and there are many young workers there." I am immensely pleased that we have so many laundries for cleaning public funds. And young managers famously launder the tsar's loot. But we need an ELECTRONIC INDUSTRY! And not her imitation on someone else's old stuff! And we do not need bandits with bandits, but engineers! Pancake...
  • Alexander Galaktionov
    Alexander Galaktionov 27 January 2021 14: 39
    -1
    With such officials, the chances that we will give everything to the states
  • tolancop
    tolancop 27 January 2021 15: 18
    +3
    Quote: Temples
    once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world

    Not once, and not when before.

    Always on the sidelines.
    Always catching up ...

    Well, who is your lie designed for, the "victims of the exam"?
    I was especially amused by the "missiles after the Germans" ... German missiles ended in 1945. The USSR pushed off from the German experience and went further. The United States, by the way, too. With space, for sure, the USSR was not in the role of catch-up. In some ways, the United States was ahead of the rest of the planet, and in some ways the USSR.
    And so in many directions ... Somewhere they managed to catch up and overtake, in some ways they were close to the first.
    And somewhere they seriously lagged behind. There were all sorts of things, just don’t pour mud on the USSR.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 January 2021 19: 55
      -3
      "With space, for sure, the USSR was not in the role of a catch-up." The USSR became catching up in the 70s, just like the aircraft industry. In the space industry, no one has been able to replace Korolev to this day.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • megavolt823
    megavolt823 28 January 2021 01: 58
    0
    For those who did not understand. Electronics starts from the element base. Micro, macro or whatever it doesn't matter. Production even under Stalin and Beria was long, complicated, and costly. In this world it will not work to have a path like the USSR. RF is a raw material. And then sticks in ........ insert. We will ban the Nord Stream and so on. The world is oversaturated with this topic, Asia rules there. Produces. The USA has its own piece on this issue. And it makes no sense to start such a thing for the domestic market.
  • Iskazi
    Iskazi 28 January 2021 05: 46
    -1
    The problem of reviving microelectronics is not technical or even economic; it is political; it is not profitable for the Kremlin towers to revive, let alone create something new. They are perfectly arranged in the liberal world ..., there is enough to maintain the Army, and okay, trade is everything in the Kremlin. Yes, at one time the KGB insisted on curtailing domestic microelectronics and recommended using American standards ..., there are many reasons for this decision and many against. On the other hand, the USSR was always second ..., that was the party's policy ..., but the Japanese honestly admit that everything in Japan has Chinese roots (culture), In the USSR, too, everything happened from the West, there was simply no domestic ..., in sufficient quantity, therefore, the quality is also lame - dialectic. In Russia, they can do EVERYTHING, but ONE copy, the country of Left-handers and State incompetence.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 53
      -1
      The lack of a sales market - this is the main and only problem for the military and government agencies, they will separately do everything for the citizen - there is no demand, there is no supply.
      1. Alexey Polyakh
        Alexey Polyakh 31 January 2021 08: 09
        0
        and where can you buy electronics of the Russian military-industrial complex ??? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE?
  • anclevalico
    anclevalico 28 January 2021 07: 53
    0
    Frames. Where to get them? Education has been destroyed.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 January 2021 16: 56
      -1
      Nothing destroyed - please https://vpk.name/news/481408_fiop_podderzhal_podgotovku_kadrov_dlya_nanotehnologicheskogo_napravleniya_v_radiofotonike.html
  • loaln
    loaln 28 January 2021 09: 44
    -1
    To SOLVE state tasks in a destroyed society, one must have a sincere desire to EVALUATE and NAME by your name, without evasion, the attempt to destroy the STATE that took place in the 90s in the process of an insane, ACCEPTED aspiration to destroy the SOVIET power.
    The people will penetrate to repentance, they will understand the purpose of correcting mistakes - the state WILL SURVIVE.
    No - it means they are preparing to SELL completely.
  • doman
    doman 28 January 2021 13: 34
    0
    Nothing is possible, especially in Russia. A matter of time and will. First of all, the state. It must decide whether our country needs microelectronics or not. If yes, then it is necessary to immediately find money and invest it in personnel and development. If not, then in the not too distant future we will remain in the margins of technology countries. And our superpower will be a mere fiction. We don't need to make "square eyes" and scream how bad everything is in microelectronics. Yes, not even bad, but absolutely bad. I already wrote somewhere that we in this industry need at this stage a technological revolution is needed to keep up with the developed countries. Because we need to develop microelectronics at a technology level of no more than 7nm. It makes no sense anymore. Let's raise microelectronics, the development of computer technology with its own OS, and other high-tech industries, in which we are still dependent on the West, will immediately follow. Because microelectronics is the basis of all automation of technological processes in industry, and IT technologies. The point is the state, whether they will be able to realize this necessity there or not.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 January 2021 18: 37
      -1
      "Strategy for the development of the electronic industry until 2030, and in September Rostec prepared a document" Roadmap "for the development of a high-tech area" New generations of microelectronics and the creation of an electronic component base ". The main theses of the Road Map are as follows:

      by 2024, it is planned to invest 798 billion rubles in the development of domestic microelectronics;
      it is planned to increase the export of Russian microelectronics by 2024 - up to 20,4 billion rubles, by 2030 - up to 48,8 billion rubles;
      production of chips with topological norms of 55nm, 28nm, 14nm is envisaged;
      development and production in Russia of solid-state drives with a topological norm of 25-30 nm are envisaged;
      no procurement of equipment from foreign companies is expected. "
      Let's see what happens in the end, but own production equipment is the most difficult task.
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk 28 January 2021 15: 16
    -2
    once one of the most technologically advanced powers in the world, our country is now

    Our president, who, as you know, never lies, said more than once that only galoshes were made in the USSR.
  • nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 28 January 2021 18: 12
    0
    Interesting potpourri, all in a bunch of horses people. There are no uniform standards here, without taking into account the specifics. For use in space, not only 6, but also 20 nm is a game, on the basis of these technical processes, electronics for satellites are not made. Obviously, the processing speed and power consumption strongly depend on the technical process, but the final processor performance depends not only on the clock frequency, but, say, on the processing algorithm. And yet, without mastering intermediate technologies, it is simply impossible to continue working. Anyone who says otherwise is either cheating or simply incompetent.
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 28 January 2021 19: 52
    -2
    Quote: ironic
    Yes, of course, in my second year I already worked part-time in the computing center of the Polytechnic University, and of course I know absolutely nothing about computers, heading the software of a small company. Well, how, where is Kitov and where is reality? What was in the Computing Center of such institutes as Giproshakhta, Giprostal, Tyazhpromelektroporoekt? Oh, there were 30 experimental ternary computers all over the country? It's like there were Jews in the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union ... But the States still put the whole world on IBM 360/370 and the Internet created a real one, and by the end of the 60s they had a triple logic on a stream that the USSR could not dream of. So yes, the USSR still knew how to shove bullshit, where it was necessary to show the Stakhanov slaughter.

    Well. For example, those who wanted to do term papers on a computer already in the early 70s. In our department, being students of the 2nd year of mb. get time to work at the institute's computer center. The theoretical and scientific developments of the USSR scientists were superior to those of the West. Yes, it is true that the USSR lagged behind in electronics technologies, but it was laid down in the 60s of the 20th century by the decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU to develop the production of not LSI and VLSI, but MS of discrete logic. In the 70s and 80s, they began to eliminate the lag in these areas and quite successfully, but the illiterate actions of the old men of the Central Committee of the CPSU in the field of economics and politics brought Misha marked and K. to power. The results of this have to be corrected by the GDP and K. but lately the course has become more and more correct - the "partners" have shown all the worthlessness of their supposedly liberal capitalism, which has been naively believed and practiced in the Russian Federation for the last 25 years. Rose-colored glasses were asleep, though only for those who think, and not hawala foreign greenery. hi
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 29 January 2021 23: 56
      0
      Quote: Vlad5307
      Yes, it is true that the USSR lagged behind in electronics technologies, but this was laid down in the 60s of the 20th century by the decision of the Central Committee of the CPSU to develop the production of not LSI and VLSI, but MS of discrete logic

      In the 60s, such a resolution could not exist in principle. The very concept of LSI and VLSI did not exist. The very first integrated circuits of three transistors are 1965. In the states, this did not appear much earlier.
      1. Vadim Laping
        Vadim Laping 30 January 2021 14: 57
        0
        in 1971-72, a small translation book-Large integrated circuits was published in the USSR. and such a ridiculous decision of the Central Committee COULD NOT BEEN.
  • Ruslan Sledkov
    Ruslan Sledkov 28 January 2021 20: 50
    0
    I would like to ask a question: is the production of 65 nm processors already established at Russian enterprises? If in 2025 we should already produce 14 nm processors, then we should already be able to produce 65 nm processors.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 29 January 2021 23: 59
      0
      Micron is already distributing a 65 nm kit design, but the technology is still crude. It looks like it is being done at the limit of the available equipment. On the new 28nm fab, nothing is heard yet.
  • UserGun
    UserGun 29 January 2021 09: 23
    -2
    Hospadya ... Personally, my lies were yours, initially aroused interest when I just compared the dates))) And note, it was you who began to carry the blizzard about:

    Quote: nsm1
    i486 was under COCOM restrictions.


    You can't throw out the words from your drunken pestnyak))) At least try to wag your tail, translating to other topics and from empty to empty))) Stupid. Well, crap, it happens.
  • orlovtube
    orlovtube 29 January 2021 11: 29
    0
    I offer development of consumer electronics
    https://vk.com/club201281709
  • Dmitry Konstantinovich
    Dmitry Konstantinovich 29 January 2021 23: 38
    0
    In the 70s, we fell behind forever.
    1. Vadim Laping
      Vadim Laping 30 January 2021 14: 24
      +1
      I wanted to take part in the discussion - in the 75th I graduated from the Institute of Technical Cybernetics, the specialty of computers in the 70s, the backlog was 15 years from the states. Since then it has not decreased. In the 60s, it was decided to create the Ministry of Electronic Industry, it separated from the radio industry. Zelenograd was built for the development of microelectronics. MIET was created as a basic university in microelectronics. In the STATES, electronics in financing was in the first place. We have in the first place SREDMASH, in the second by AVIAPROM, IN TEN ELECTRONIC INDUSTRY. I have never heard of any machines based on ternary logic. There were computing machines in the residual class system - the development of Akushsky in the Armed Forces.
      1. Ua3qhp
        Ua3qhp 30 January 2021 19: 14
        0
        The DEC Pro-350 staff in the states came out in 1982, its analogue Electronics-85 in the USSR came out in 1985. So, about 15 years you got excited.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Professional_(computer)
        1. Vadim Laping
          Vadim Laping 30 January 2021 22: 24
          0
          YES it seemed that we would catch up, my classmate made 1801vm1 here. then Academician Velikhov promised 1 million DCK staff. something went wrong.
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 30 January 2021 22: 48
            0
            And then perestroika began. And until 2000 the state "forgot" about microelectronics.
            1. Vadim Laping
              Vadim Laping 31 January 2021 10: 03
              0
              there is a feeling that even now no one needs it. we need colossal cash infusions, people need to pay normal money. in the 60s, a book was published - the Cambridge Science and Technology Center of the United States, this is about Silicon Valley. there are many interesting things. girls working on microscopes earned a month for a car. we have the same girls in the 70s in the shops for jeans did not earn. I'm not talking about engineers. now also redneck.
        2. The eye of the crying
          The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 11: 54
          -1
          Dozens of personal car models have come out in the States, some with multi-million copies. This is the difference.
          1. Ua3qhp
            Ua3qhp 31 January 2021 13: 34
            0
            They later came out when the USSR began to fall apart.
            The IBM PC AT on the 80286 processor was released in 1984.
            1. The eye of the crying
              The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 13: 41
              -1
              Quote: Ua3qhp
              They later came out when the USSR began to fall apart.


              Who are they"? Apple, Commodore, Atari, Sinclair, IBM PC? They all came out in millions of copies even before Electronics-85 came out in the USSR.
              1. Ua3qhp
                Ua3qhp 31 January 2021 20: 24
                0
                Quote: Eye of the Crying
                Commodore, Atari, Sinclair

                These are "Radio-86 RK" class cars. Electronics 85 - class IBM PC AT-286. The last two cars came out with an interval of one year. Only "Electronics-85" was made by one plant, and the whole world made the IBM PC AT-286. Well, DEC architecture lost Intel in consumer goods.
                1. The eye of the crying
                  The eye of the crying 31 January 2021 20: 41
                  -1
                  Quote: Ua3qhp
                  These are cars of the "Radio-86 RK" class.


                  And Agatha, yes. So what? There were many types of them, each already produced in the millions at a time when "Radio-86" stupidly did not exist. But, for example, with workstations it was the same: "there" - several types of machines with mass circulation (Apollo, Sun, SGI), "here" - "Best" in small series.

                  Quote: Ua3qhp
                  "Electronics-85" was made by one plant, and the IBM PC AT-286 was made by the whole world.


                  Again - so what? If you want to say that the USSR had no chance against the whole world, I do not argue with that.
                  1. Ua3qhp
                    Ua3qhp 1 February 2021 10: 50
                    0
                    I want to say that in the mid-eighties, the gap in microelectronics relative to the advanced level was 2 to 4 years. The main lag appeared in the 90s, when funding for this industry was completely stopped. And here "in order to stand still, you have to run with all your might ..."
                    Truth and chaos was enough.
                    Here's a book on the net.
                    http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/L/''Letopis'_otkrytiy_i_sversheniy._Memuary''/_''LOiSM''.html
                    about SM computer interesting.
                    Although here the information must be taken so to speak critically.
                    1. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 10: 59
                      -1
                      Quote: Ua3qhp
                      I want to say that in the mid-eighties, the gap in microelectronics relative to the advanced level was from 2 to 4 years.


                      And you make this conclusion based on the fact that Electronics-85 appeared 3 years later than DEC Pro. It's not even funny. There was a revolution in the West at that time - VLSI, CAD, RISC, personal computers, workstations, and in the Union they made (copied?) Electronics-85. Cool, cho.
                      1. Ua3qhp
                        Ua3qhp 1 February 2021 13: 44
                        0
                        True, for this, it was necessary to master in serial (even in mass) production the technology of LSI production, already quite small-sized 5,25 drives and hard disks, color monitors, etc. So the development was quite fast. But a lot of money was poured into this direction, which resulted in the snobbery of the electronics industry.
                      2. The eye of the crying
                        The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 14: 01
                        -1
                        For CAD - no, it was not necessary. For workstations, I guess. But they didn't. So the statement about a "2-4 years" lag is ridiculous at best.
                  2. The eye of the crying
                    The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 11: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: Ua3qhp
                    Here's a book on the net.
                    http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/L/''Letopis'_otkrytiy_i_sversheniy._Memuary''/_''LOiSM''.html


                    "We heard about the" calculating-decisive technique "technique. There were several groups in this specialization on the course.

                    notebooks after each lecture were handed over to the first section

                    am
                    1. Ua3qhp
                      Ua3qhp 1 February 2021 13: 51
                      0
                      We are talking about the interval between 1950 and 1956. Can you imagine the time? Perhaps at that time electronic computing was something supernatural, it is now very difficult for us to understand that time. Here you also need to filter the author. it is necessary to look at the magazines "Radio" of those times. what they wrote there. However, go to work in the COMPUTER CENTER in 1956. it's very ...
                    2. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 13: 59
                      -1
                      Quote: Ua3qhp
                      We are talking about the interval between 1950 and 1956. Can you imagine the time?


                      Yes, I can. Then the specialty "data processing" appeared in American universities. Unclassified. They did not even have the first departments in universities.

                      Quote: Ua3qhp
                      Here you also need to filter the author


                      Sure. The fact that the author went abroad 1 time during the Soviet Union, to Bulgaria, is, of course, a lie. You read a book.
                    3. Ua3qhp
                      Ua3qhp 1 February 2021 17: 25
                      0
                      Found. The magazine "Radio" 11th number, 1951.
                      The first mention of computing.
                      PS The fact that the author had a concealed course is not very surprising - the problem being solved is the probability of hitting a salvo from the main caliber of the battleship "October Revolution" at a distance ... km at a speed ... and so on. with the shown ballistic data of the guns.
                      This is not an exact fact, it is an assumption. Based on college terver course: "bomber at altitude ... with speed ... calculate the probability of hitting ...
                    4. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 17: 27
                      -1
                      I don’t understand what the mention of computing has to do with university procedures, but okay.
                    5. Ua3qhp
                      Ua3qhp 1 February 2021 17: 58
                      0
                      I wanted to say. That the statement that Russian microelectronics is dead and there is no chance is not true. She lives in spite of everything. I would like, of course, the best.
                    6. The eye of the crying
                      The eye of the crying 1 February 2021 18: 24
                      -1
                      Microelectronics is, of course, alive. But it will be very expensive for Russia to become self-sufficient (if at all possible), to become a leader is no longer possible.
  • Alexey Polyakh
    Alexey Polyakh 30 January 2021 22: 56
    0
    Example 1:
    15 to the degree of 128 = 346482384157094052184125178763389910734176393900
    956081649855025164014124153383005393700309333434209191671757175
    379231806194392189052899091182801387520, (150 characters)

    Example 2:
    (5 to the power (5 to the power of 5)) == 2185 characters long.
    this is multiplication, or unfolding, or "decompression" (compression is the reverse process) .... as anyone ...
    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------
    then there is a return route ...
    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------
    This is MEMORY ...
    This is a way of "remembering" ...

    + cpu, like SUBLEQ or TTA (transport triggered architecture), with one rewrite command from place to place (copying from ADDRESS to ADDRESS) and one auxiliary command - going N steps forward (backward) when the condition is met.

    Let's do...

    i.e. the CPU is a read-write device from memory to memory (the simplest CPU)

    http://gerigeri.uw.hu/DawnOS/

    Quote: "Other computer architectures are extremely complicated, but SUBLEQ is easy to understand, easy to emulate or implement as a native hardware. This platform not have interrupts, MMU, TLB, paging, protected mode, or even registers - its just as simply as you think it is. "
    Translation: “Other computing architectures are extremely complex, but SUBLEQ is easy to understand, easy to emulate or implement in real hardware. This platform has no interrupts, MMU (memory management unit), TLB, paging, protected mode , and EVEN REGISTERS (!!!)
    - it is as simple as you can imagine.

    Let's do...
  • Alexey Polyakh
    Alexey Polyakh 30 January 2021 23: 36
    0
    Example 1:
    15 to the degree of 128 = 346482384157094052184125178763389910734176393900
    956081649855025164014124153383005393700309333434209191671757175
    379231806194392189052899091182801387520, (150 characters)

    Example 2:
    (5 to the power (5 to the power of 5)) == 2185 characters long.
    this is multiplication, or unfolding, or "decompression" (compression is the reverse process) .... as anyone ...
    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------
    then there is a return route ...
    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------
    This is MEMORY ...
    This is a way of "remembering" ...

    + cpu, like SUBLEQ or TTA (transport triggered architecture), with one rewrite command from place to place (copying from ADDRESS to ADDRESS) and one auxiliary command - going N steps forward (backward) when the condition is met.

    Data, in physical memory, is stored in a "short" form, the volume to the LEFT of the equal sign.
    When a program request arrives (there are no others), the "short" record is "expanded" into a long one in the TRANSIT register.
    Further, either reading or writing is performed. When recording, you need to calculate the "short" from the "long" recording.
    The short entry is written to physical memory.
    The transit register is cleared.

    Let's do...

    i.e. the CPU is a read-write device from memory to memory (the simplest CPU)

    http://gerigeri.uw.hu/DawnOS/

    Quote: "Other computer architectures are extremely complicated, but SUBLEQ is easy to understand, easy to emulate or implement as a native hardware. This platform not have interrupts, MMU, TLB, paging, protected mode, or even registers - its just as simply as you think it is. "
    Translation: “Other computing architectures are extremely complex, but SUBLEQ is easy to understand, easy to emulate or implement in real hardware. This platform has no interrupts, MMU (memory management unit), TLB, paging, protected mode , and EVEN REGISTERS (!!!)
    - it is as simple as you can imagine.

    Let's do...
  • clerk
    clerk 1 February 2021 14: 25
    0
    The note is half-hearted. Listing with approval the measures taken by the states (in general, correct and necessary), the author did not name the main condition - the state should form a considerable, stable and long-term demand for the products of the Russian microelectronic industry. Without this, all measures will go to the sand.
    1. Ua3qhp
      Ua3qhp 1 February 2021 17: 31
      0
      In this, oddly enough, the West helps.
      Like new sanctions, they immediately remember the domestic manufacturer.
      And the harder they press. the brighter the interest.
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