Chassis from Leopard 2A4: Turkey presented a variant of the Altay tank

Turkey is having problems completing work on the creation of its main combat tank (MBT) Altay. These problems are connected with the fact that a number of foreign countries support an embargo on the supply of military components to Turkey. There are several reasons for the embargo. One of them is Turkey's actions in the Eastern Mediterranean (for offshore surveys) and in Libya (military operations and the transfer of militants to Tripoli).

Some time ago Turkey demonstrated its own version of trying to get out of the current situation. A tank was presented, which experts called a "hybrid" of the German "Leopard" and the Turkish "Altai".

It is noted that the combat vehicle is a "hybrid", a "mixture" of these tanks, since the chassis of the combat vehicle is from a Leopard 2A4, and the turret is from the original project of the Altay tank with a 120 mm gun, not manufactured by Rheinmetall.

The tank was presented to Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar during his visit to one of the enterprises of the country's military-industrial complex.

It is reported that the "hybrid" tank is equipped with a Turkish active protection complex (KAZ), laser sensors for warning of an attack on a tank (warning systems).

Earlier it was reported that Turkey has entered into a series of agreements with Korean manufacturers for the supply of engines and transmissions for tanks for the needs of the tank building industry. It was also known about the problems with the armor due to the fact that the German companies are forced to comply with the embargo.

Representatives of the Ministry of Defense call this tank "the first version" of the Altay tank.

ALTAY TANKI İLK ÜRETİM ... pic.twitter.com/H2Q5Evw2tK

- İbrahim Melih Gökçek (@ 06melihgokcek) January 24, 2021

Comments

[Victor_B]

the combat vehicle is a "hybrid", a "mixture" of these tanks, since the chassis of the combat vehicle is from a Leopard 2A4, and the turret is from the original Altay tank project with a 120 mm cannon, not manufactured by Rheinmetall.

Shushpanzer?

[nPuBaTuP]

Rather Frankinstein .....

[Dodikson]

a hodgepodge of komplektuhi from a bunch of other countries, and they call all this a tank of Turkish design.
and there is only the Turkish assembly and the fact that they removed the AZ from the Black Panther tower and put a loader there, because AZ is too difficult for them.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Victor_B

Shushpanzer?

I don't like the name somehow - "Altai" ... Like if Hitler called the new tank "Volga". As if hinting at something ... Pan-Turkism?

[nsm1]

If Hitler's ancestors lived on the Volga, he did not know about it.
And almost everyone knows that Altai is the ancestral home of the Turks.

[Maki maki]

Quote: nsm1

And the fact that Altai is the ancestral home of the Turks almost everyone knows

Just one of the versions

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Maki Maki

Quote: nsm1

And the fact that Altai is the ancestral home of the Turks almost everyone knows

Just one of the versions

A typical argument of our "sworn partners" - well, everyone knows about it. And about "Russian aggression in Donbass", and about the liner knocked down by gallops in Donbass, and about "Putin's palace" - this is "everyone knows." The argument is unbreakable.

Do not argue, Max, with nsm1... I was convinced - useless and unproductive. It's like trying to prove to Napoleon in a well-known establishment that he is not Napoleon, but Louis XVI.

[Pereira]

According to another version, the ancestral home of the Aryans.

[bayard]

Quote: nsm1

And almost everyone knows that Altai is the ancestral home of the Turks.

The Turks are not a people, not genetics, they are a linguistic group.
They speak English in India, but they are not English.
In general, they switched to MOV in Ukraine, and before that they had never heard of such an adverb.
In general, the Turks were called the border guards of the Great Empire ... there was border crossbreeding. And the Turkic language is the language of the Army (Horde / Order). By the way, in the ancient Persian sources in the list of "Turanian peoples" one of the most important is the people ... Rus "... as it is not surprising for the modern Turks.
Previously, our Cossacks were fluent in the Turkic dialects, and for a long time the atamans of the Ural and Semirechensky Troops were people from the Khanzhin family. In the war of 1812, the ataman Khanzhin, like Platov (from the Don), brought his Cossacks to the Borodino field, and both of them, together with the hussars, took part in that famous raid in the rear of the Napoleonic army with the defeat of their camp (this then thwarted another attack of the enemy ). And in WWI, General Khanzhin fought, and in the army of Kolchak he commanded the army ... And this family comes from Genghis Khan himself. Khanzhin means - the Hand of the King.
We have all Cossack families from these same - "Mongol-Tatar" blood , that's just all Russian, blue-eyed, tall and bearded.
And the Turks are the descendants of the fugitive warlord Seljuk, whose army, having engaged in robbery, passed from Central Asia (today's Turkmenistan) to Constantinople, Algeria and Mecca. And although from the beginning Seljuk recruited soldiers in Siberia, but over the centuries of robbery and incest, as well as infiltration of soldiers from other (Dravidian) peoples into his army, today's mix called "Turks" has turned out. They do not have a single or even just a dominant genotype, there is exactly a mix - a mixture.
Turks are not a people.
Not an ethnos.
It's a conglomerate.
Here's the thing, is it our Turks, take even the Bashkirs - almost all (up to 90%) have one genotype (haplogroup). The Bashkirs are the real pro-Türks. By the way, they have a stable psyche, unlike the Turks.
In interracial hybrids, the first thing that suffers is the psyche.
But the same Tatars, say, the Crimean ones, generally have no "Turkic" genetics, they are purebred Scythians-Aryans, one haplogroup with the Russians.
And language ... it's just language.
So in Ukraine for several decades (!!!) some kind of mova has appeared.
What is not an example, when the descendants of the Russians begin to scratch in some new, foreign language.

[nsm1]

Quote: bayard

In interracial hybrids, the first thing that suffers is the psyche.

Nothing suffers from them.
On the contrary, the genetic burden is less. defects in both sets do not match.
And it’s not okay with the psyche because you’re not Uzbek or Russian, there is no real nation, a stranger everywhere.
This is from society, not from hybridization.

[volodimer]

The tank is named after:
Fakhrettin Altay (January 12, 1880 - October 25, 1974) https://ru.qaz.wiki/wiki/Fahrettin_Altay
So, pan-Turkism has nothing to do with it.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: volodimer

The tank is named after:
Fakhrettin Altai (January 12, 1880 - October 25, 1974)

Quote: volodimer

So, pan-Turkism has nothing to do with it.

Well, fine if so. I personally heard about this Altai for the first time.

[halpat]

Quote: volodimer

The tank is named after:
Fakhrettin Altay (January 12, 1880 - October 25, 1974) https://ru.qaz.wiki/wiki/Fahrettin_Altay
So, pan-Turkism has nothing to do with it.

Then it was necessary to call "Fahrettin".
Otherwise, you will have to revive the Altai Tractor Plant

[Pereira]

It turns out long. Then either Fach or Khrettin.

[Anar]

Altai is the surname, and they called it Altai, as they called Antonov - An, Tupalev - Tu, Kalashnikov - AK.

[Flooding]

Quote: volodimer

Pan-Turkism has nothing to do with it.

If we are talking about modern Turkey, then Pan-Turkism always has to do with it.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Zoldat_A

As if hinting at something ... Pan-Turkism?

Come on, with hints, who does not dream of greatness, even Romania ... It's another matter that he backs up his dreams with deeds, and in a strange way, they allow him to.
And only recently they woke up a little and pressed a little ...

[OgnennyiKotik]

A logical option for modernizing the tank fleet. There are several similar projects in Europe. They now have 316 ancient Leopards 2A4, half of the modernized ones for Altai will be enough.
Turkey is the 4th country in the world (after the USSR, Israel, USA) which has serially KAZ. It looks like the lives of Turkish soldiers are more important than ours.
They showed a variant of a wheeled infantry fighting vehicle with KAZ.

M60 is already at war with KAZ, photo from Syria.

[nsm1]

Wow, the height of this BMP!
It looks more than three meters ...

[Quadro]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

A logical option for modernizing the tank fleet. There are several similar projects in Europe. They now have 316 ancient Leopards 2A4, half of the modernized ones for Altai will be enough.
Turkey is the 4th country in the world (after the USSR, Israel, USA) which has serially KAZ. It looks like the lives of Turkish soldiers are more important than ours.
They showed a variant of a wheeled infantry fighting vehicle with KAZ.

M60 is already at war with KAZ, photo from Syria.

What a great achievement the Ukrainian kaz to add to the outdated m60. And now any Papuan rivets armored personnel carriers, although most of them turn out to be essentially a screwdriver assembly. I wouldn't be surprised if "Turkish" is the same.

[English tarantas]

They showed a variant of a wheeled infantry fighting vehicle with KAZ.

I don't even want to ask questions to KAZ. Here the questions are different and there are many questions, it is not for nothing that the embargo was imposed, so it works.

[bayard]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

It looks like the lives of Turkish soldiers are more important than ours.
They showed a variant of a wheeled infantry fighting vehicle with KAZ.

We have shown the Kurganets-25 BMP for a long time.
And something tells me what will happen to this BMP, after the cumulative hit, the same as with the Ukrainian BMP-1 \ 2 with KAZ, whose armor sagged and burst from the explosion of these elements. You can't put a KAZ on anything.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Kurganets 25 died, long live the new Kurgan. The BMP has 1/2 foil, not armor. In my opinion, you are confusing Dynamic protection and KAZ.

[kenig1]

As in a song: I blinded you from what was.

[novel66]

bulldog rhino mix

[Thrifty]

He has obvious problems with centering, the engine is located in the front, the tower is also displaced forward, therefore, it kicks up the rear when braking. This is a hindrance in combat when shooting, a large inertial moment gives a loss of time for aiming and shooting. In this case, despite the KAZ, it is a good target.

[abrakadabre]

the engine is located in the front, the tower is also shifted forward, so it lifts up the rear when braking. This is a hindrance in combat when shooting, a large inertial moment gives a loss of time for aiming and shooting.

And the front suspension will also suffer when driving over rough terrain. Especially all sorts of collisions with obstacles will delight the suspension.

[Flooding]

Quote: Thrifty

He has obvious problems with centering, the engine is located in the front, the turret is also shifted forward, therefore, it kicks up the rear when braking.

It is Altay in the video. Not the hybrid that the article is about.
And what you call the alignment problem is a demonstration of the tank's suspension capabilities.
Which, as you know, comes from K2.

[Thrifty]

Navodlom - even Altai has the same problems with the centering machine, in other words, the weight distribution of the units is unsuccessful, when braking, a large inertial moment arises, which is why the tank bulges up its rear. In battle, this is a big disadvantage when maneuvering and firing! The tank will be able to shoot, not the fact that it is exactly on the target, and even on the target that is not static at all, it is doubtful to hit. Only when driving at low speed. ..

[Flooding]

You are mistaken in making a generally logical conclusion from the wrong premise.
From about 2:30

[nsm1]

Quote: Thrifty

the engine is located at the front

??
And then what is behind him?
The photo doesn't look like the front ...

[Maki maki]

Quote: Thrifty

This is a hindrance in combat when shooting, a large inertial moment gives a loss of time for aiming and shooting. In this case, despite the KAZ, it is a good target.

Well, why did you write? They will now read and correct

[Max Lebedev]

That's right, you don't have to deprive people of pleasant delusions.

[Zaurbek]

What is the front engine? Leo has it in the back

[bistrov.]

Quote: Thrifty

the engine is located in front, the tower is also shifted forward,

Where did you get the idea that "the engine is located in front", then whose observation device is in the frontal armor? Moreover, if you think "the engine is in front", why move the turret forward? These are two mutually exclusive phenomena.
What, then, is in the stern if "the engine is in front"? You didn't just SURPRISE me ... hehe ...

[Anar]

On the contrary, the brake system is such that the car does not slip, but it stops smoothly. It's like an ABS in a car. Tracks do not lose traction due to the fact that the front end is pressed more against the ground. You try to stop on the T-72 in this way, an insufficiently trained tanker will not predict at all where the tank will bring after the brake.

[svp67]

But this tank now has a future ... The design of the original "Korean" K-2 chassis is too complex.

[Thrifty]

Sergei -What is the future of a bunch of other people's licenses and components? The Germans will put pressure on the Koreans, the guns themselves will stop supplying, the permission for the localization and release of guns by the Turks will be canceled because of the embargo, and the tank will quietly die without going into production. ..

[svp67]

Quote: Thrifty

Sergey - what is the future of a bunch of other people's licenses and components?

Well, depending on how to get down to business. The USSR did it

[Zaurbek]

If you have mastered the license, then the country is in the black ... like AVTOVAZ in the 70s ...

[Quadro]

Quote: Zaurbek

If you have mastered the license, then the country is in the black ... like AVTOVAZ in the 70s ...

But they bring it all in, don't do it. Koreans have a transmission from Renk, fuck them, not a transmission.

[Zaurbek]

You have to buy in different places and learn ... or not to be overwhelmed

[Thrifty]

Do Koreans have the right to sell the engine? They also have a German license? Selling it violates copyright, they themselves may be left without an engine! And why the vuk-ria seemed to fit into this project, they promised to quickly create or adapt their tank engine (it is not known which one) on the Turkish chassis. ..

[Quadro]

They have a transmission from Renk, let the Turks keep dreaming. The Koreans will not finish their own.

[tralflot1832]

Turkish miracle! Under the USSR, ours riveted BMRT of the Altai type in Nikolaev. There are also problems with the engines, to put a diesel engine from a locomotive on a steamer, that is another option. They were nicknamed the Russian miracle. And when they did not stand on an even keel, I need it. A good project Altai. will not be named !!!

[Mavrikiy]

Turkey is having problems completing work on its Altay main battle tank (MBT).

We will not help! Let the farmers help, from the coast (even though the Black Sea, even the Baltic, the jack of all trades. Out of boredom, probably ).

[rocket757]

Chassis from Leopard 2A4: Turkey presented a variant of the Altay tank

Land "dreadnought" - I carry everything with me !!! so then there is such a tendency, to stuff into the tank everything that can and cannot be.
Only real verification can show. who was / is right.

[Zaurbek]

It has the right to life. The Germans did the same with the French.

[bar]

And what is the article about? About the fact that the Turks will not have a new tank because the Germans will not sell leopard chassis and armor?

[Thrifty]

bar - there is a German gun, German optics, because of the embargo the Turks are deprived of this, as well as technologies, therefore the fate of the tank depends on the ability of the Turks themselves to replace at least 90 percent of foreign components for this tank. And, it's not easy, you can't buy on Ali or from the Chinese, you need to create from scratch years of intensive development and research with experiments in order to repeat over time what the Germans did yesterday! unnecessarily heavy, without the possibility of deep modernization.

[Petro_tut]

you can't buy on Ali or from the Chinese,

You can buy something from the Chinese.

[bar]

Well, I also meant kagbe. What's the point of painting the charms of a tank that won't exist?

[Zaurbek]

The Turks want to enter the Leo2 modernization market ... but it is not small, Eastern European countries, Asia, northern Europe ...

[Quadro]

Do not want. This mutant is out of despair. The Germans have a normal 2a4 upgrade, without replacing the turret.

[Zaurbek]

There is .... but how much does it cost? And if these are Leo's early versions?

[Quadro]

Quote: Zaurbek

There is .... but how much does it cost? And if these are Leo's early versions?

And what, the replacement of the tower will be cheaper than the hinged blocks? And if the cost does not suit you, you can refuse one or another element, Malaysia seems to (I don’t remember exactly) sold modernization with their wishes - cheaper. 100% this underdalt will be more expensive. And yes, northern Europe is moving at least to 2a5 / 2a7, they don't need a turret.

[Zaurbek]

There is Indonesia, there is Turkey itself .... and you get a new unit in the form of a BO. Do not sculpt something on the old tower.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Zaurbek

Do not sculpt something on the old tower.

With the German modernization to 2A7, only the skeleton remains of the old tower. In fact, a new tower comes out, for horse money. The Turks also have a variant with hinged additional armor. True, without KAZ, I think you can hang.

https://topwar.ru/174898-tureckim-obt-leopard-2a4-znachitelno-usilili-zaschitu.html

[Zaurbek]

KAZ and the Fritzes do not have ... while the monopoly of Israel

[OgnennyiKotik]

There is no longer a monopoly. The Turks have 2 types of KAZ. You are right that they will enter the tank modernization market. On the M60 and the leopard, the hand was filled, further more.

[Zaurbek]

Not yet ..... it's all at the concept level. As with us. Yes, when available on tanks.

[OgnennyiKotik]

All M60T Sabra are already equipped with KAZ. These are 166 pieces. They are already at war in Syria. Photo from there.

[Zaurbek]

I do not argue ... but compare the PR in Israel and the lack of PR in Turkey ... then not everything is so good. When was the Thrush installed on the T55? So what?

[OgnennyiKotik]

Quote: Zaurbek

but compare the PR of Israel and the lack of PR in Turkey

Compared. Turkey is much more effective in PR than Israel. It's just not in Russian. I take information from foreign sources, in Islamic countries they simply squeak with delight in Turkey. Our uryaklam is still far from the local ones.
Take the same NKR, everywhere there are stories about Bayraktars, although the main UAVs were Israeli, Israeli electronic warfare systems, modernization of weapons are entirely Israeli and much more Israeli. Only about this silence.

[Zaurbek]

So I compare Bayraktar ... and KAZ. Their PR. And the bayraktar has already started a surge in sales and it will be a hit of sales. And sanctions against the Turks are connected with this. It is still quiet on KAZ. The first who are interested are the Arabs in Yemen and the same Azerbaijan.

[OgnennyiKotik]

Wait a bit, they need to equip their army. This is all news for 2020. There are not such production facilities as in the USA or Germany.
A couple of operations against Kurds and SAR, some spectacular interception videos and contracts will go. Maybe there is already, not everything is published, especially with us.
For example from this week's news:
Kenya will purchase 118 HIZIR 4x4 Tactical armored vehicles from Turkey. Earlier, the same machines were massively acquired by Uganda

[Zaurbek]

I don't mind ..... waiting.

[OgnennyiKotik]

By the way, Kaplan can also be equipped with KAZ. There was news about the purchase of them by the Turkish army, but there is no information on the number and equipment. The Indonesian version comes without KAZ.

[Zaurbek]

While the Turks are firing from ATGMs .... and the Turks have stopped conducting ground operations.

[Quadro]

Quote: OgnennyiKotik

Quote: Zaurbek

Do not sculpt something on the old tower.

With the German modernization to 2A7, only the skeleton remains of the old tower. In fact, a new tower comes out, for horse money. The Turks also have a variant with hinged additional armor. True, without KAZ, I think you can hang.

https://topwar.ru/174898-tureckim-obt-leopard-2a4-znachitelno-usilili-zaschitu.html

And why 2a7? There is evolution and revolution, the latter like in Singapore, it will be cheaper

[Revolver]

Building a tank is not buying a donkey.

[realmadmaxx]

the name is just some kind of our "Altai tank"

[Zaurbek]

So are our Turks ...

[APASUS]

Not everything is so simple in tank building!
Turkey has been breaking up with (MBT) Altay since 2007 and cannot bring it, and then suddenly from scratch the Estonian company Milrem Robotics presented the concept of a promising unmanned universal platform Type-X, out of nowhere!

[Petro_tut]

Make a "bank" to it And the rules will be

[APASUS]

Quote: Petro_tut

Make a "bank" to it And the rules will be

If everything were that simple, tanks would even be produced by auto repair shops

[Petro_tut]

For a long time there were no articles about the Turkish "aircraft carrier" -BDK, I would like to read

[TermNachTer]

It would be more correct to call the next version of the "leopard")))

[Lord of the Sith]

Earlier it was reported that Turkey entered into a series of contracts with Korean manufacturers for the supply of engines and transmissions for tanks for the needs of the tank building industry.

Did the Koreans have a tank school?)))

[Torukmakto]

Suddenly yes.
Pretty young, but they have good cars.
I advise you to google info about K1, K1A1 and K2

[Lord of the Sith]

Even proven in battle, in tank wedges?))

Or is it a German copy in Korean?)))