Military Review

Losses of Germany in the battle with the USSR / Russia 1941-1945: truth and deception

80
Losses of Germany in the battle with the USSR / Russia 1941-1945: truth and deception

There are only 6 articles in our cycle on the losses of Russia and Germany in the Great Patriotic War. The first four were devoted to the losses of Russia, and the last two (today's and next) - to Germany.


In the previous parts of the review ("Aesopian language of loss: the pan-European empire VS Russia" и "Losses of Russia / USSR in the war against fascism: language of numbers" it was stated that Europe of those years (in a thirst for superiority and reprisals against the barbaric Slavs in the East) united against a common enemy - Russia. That led to huge losses of both the servicemen of the Red Army and civilians of the USSR.

In the third part Civilian casualties in 1941-1945: fakes and facts documents and figures were considered about the huge and inexplicable by nothing other than the inhuman cruelty of the Nazis-punitive, casualties among the civilian population of our country in that war.

In the fourth part Typhus 1941-1944: bacteriological warfare investigated the version that the Nazis deliberately destroyed the civilians of Russia, infecting them with typhus. The fact is that already at the beginning of the war, the Wehrmacht had a vaccine against this infection. Whereas the USSR only by 1942 was able to invent such a domestic typhus vaccine and establish its mass production. In addition, to protect the army and people from bacteriological aggression during the war years, the work of the country's epidemiological service was completely restructured.

In this fifth and the next sixth parts, we will examine in detail the extent of Germany's losses. Since a lot of material has been selected to describe this issue, we will need two articles at once for its detailed presentation.

Thus, in our first article on the losses of Germany in 1941-1945. we will consider in detail various versions about the number of both captured and missing Wehrmacht soldiers.

Disputes about the missing Germans


To this day, disputes about the exact figures of the losses of the German army in the battle with Russia / USSR continue. We are talking about those figures that can be substantiated by statistical methods. Experts refer to the lack of true statistics on Germany's losses, which is motivated by various circumstances.

A relatively understandable situation with the number of prisoners of the Nazi army in the Great Patriotic War.

Based on domestic data, it is known that about 3 soldiers of the Third Reich were captured in the USSR. Moreover, 172 of them were held in the institutions of the NKVD.

But, for example, the opposition revisionist historian (who seriously believes that our Great Victory Day should be canceled and turned into only a modest commemoration) B. Sokolov evaluates the number of captured soldiers of the Wehrmacht in the USSR as 2 730 000 people:

In total, 2,73 million former soldiers of the German army have been in Soviet captivity.

German historians, on the other hand, believe that the Russians underestimate the number of the Third Reich military personnel placed in camps. They insist that there were not nearly 2,4 million (Russian archives) in our prisons, but about 3 (German lists including missing) fascists.

For example, in a book Germany's War against the Soviet Union 1941-1945, edited by the German historian Reinhard Rürup (1991), emphasizes that

“During the war, about 3,15 million German soldiers were captured by the Soviet Union, most of them during the retreat of German troops in 1944–45. and after the German surrender.

Approximately one in three died in captivity. "

Between the domestic and Western approaches to counting, there is a difference in the calculation of the Germans who fell into our camps during the war.

As it can be easily calculated (3,1 million people minus 2,4 million people), we are talking about approximately 700 differently recorded prisoners. This is the number of Wehrmacht fighters who are missing. (At the same time, the Germans put them in the category of those who died in the camps of the USSR. And Russian historians count them among those killed during the fighting).

Experts explain this dissimilarity of figures by the following circumstance. First of all, the results of counting the dead German prisoners of war, registered in Russian and foreign archives, differ. So, according to the research of domestic specialists, 356 fascists died in captivity at the Soviets. Whereas historians in Germany increase this number of German prisoners of war at least 700 times. In other words, in Berlin it is believed that 3 German servicemen have died in Soviet captivity.

Of these two points of view, the most reliable is the position of Russian scientists, who explain this difference of 700 as follows. From the standpoint of Russian historians and documentary filmmakers, these are the very Germans who really did not return from captivity to Germany and therefore are rightly considered missing there. But in fact, they did not die at all in the Soviet camps, but were killed even before that - earlier and on the battlefields.


Germans lie too


The overwhelming number of published works on calculating the combat demographic losses of the Wehrmacht and the SS troops as a basic source rely on the Central Bureau (department) for recording the losses of personnel of the German armed forces, which was included in the General Staff of the Supreme High Command of the German army.

Of course, Western historiography gravitates towards double standards. Everything Soviet and Russian (including counting methods, statistics and even lists) is a priori called “unreliable”. While everything German, including their statistics, is declared the ultimate truth.

Nevertheless, if you take a closer look at the German statistical that vaunted pedantry, then in fact it turns out that it was just there that she stumbled. The work of this German department of loss accounting did not impress, first of all, the German experts and researchers themselves, precisely because of its dubious credibility.

Take, for example, a respected German expert like Rüdiger Overmans. Recall that this German military historian of the Bundeswehr specializes precisely in the period of World War II. And his book "The military losses of Germany in the Second World War" (1996, 1999, 2000, 2004) is one of the most complete works on the losses of the Wehrmacht during that period. Therefore, his opinion about the quality of German statistics of those years is quite competent.

So, R. Overmans in his article “Human victims of World War II in Germany. Analysis of the results of the study with special attention to the issue of the losses of the Wehrmacht and among the exiled persons "(1997) unequivocally summed up:

«channels of receipt of information in the Wehrmacht do not detect to the extent authenticitywhich some authors ascribe to them ”.

Moreover, this specialist clarifies that in the course of 1944 in German statistics, more and more such a note as

“No data” / no specific data ”.

In addition, when clarifying the cases of the missing Germans in the post-war period, it was found that in the period from the invasion of Normandy in the West to the collapse of Army Group Center in the East

«loss information became increasingly incomplete».

The unreliability of the channels for receiving information about the losses was only one of the problems of the German military extras. But experts consider this problem to be secondary. Because the main problem of German military officials, as R. Overmans notes, is the content of the statistics:

“The other problem - meaningful quality of statistics».

Most of all claims from German specialists are in the statistical category "missing". The fact is that since 1943, it was this group of losses that played an increasingly significant role in the statistical array of all Hitler's soldiers who died. By January 31, 1945, 50% of all German losses were already listed as “missing”.

But the most important thing is that when these disappeared suddenly appeared in their units or (as stragglers) continued to fight in other formations and even when they were found in hospitals, no one lowered the number of “missing” in Germany. Here is what the eminent historian of the Bundeswehr writes:

In this category, German officials included everyone whose whereabouts were unknown.

Error correction (in relation to those cases when the missing returned to their units, or when, lagging behind their units, the servicemen continued to fight as part of other formations, or when, being wounded, they ended up in hospitals, and their units did not it was known) not practiced.

And here is an intermediate conclusion made by the same military historian:

"In this way, reports about the missing in fact turned out to be more truly missing».

As required.

It turns out that the point of view of Russian historians is fully justified and, moreover, it is fair.

Now attention. The final conclusion of this German expert on the Great Patriotic War is as follows:

“Therefore, taking into account all aspects neither RCW data nor publications based on them can be considered reliable».

As for the position of domestic specialists regarding the fact that for some reason the German officials who died in battles were included in the lists of "those who died in the camps of the USSR" historical science claims:

"The official report of the department of losses in the headquarters of the Wehrmacht, relating to 1944, documented that losseswhich were incurred during the Polish, French and Norwegian campaigns and which presented no technical difficulties in identifying, were almost twice as high as originally reported».

Most experts are of the opinion of B. Müller-Hillebrand (Burkhart Müller-Hillebrand), who calculated the casualties of the Wehrmacht at 3,2 million people and believed that another 0,8 million Germans died as prisoners.

Recall that this researcher served at the top of the Bundeswehr army, and earlier in the Reichswehr and the Wehrmacht. He was in British and American captivity, after which he became a member of the section of the historical division of the United States Army, where he wrote several studies on the history of the Great Patriotic War. He ended his military career as a Major General and Deputy Head of the Strategic Planning Department at NATO Headquarters Europe (SHAPE).

So, this German researcher in his a book “The Land Army of Germany. 1933-1945 " this is how he estimated the share of missing German servicemen:

"Missing persons for the period up to June 1943 accounted for a total of 5 to 15% of the number of casualties."

By the way, he also repeatedly pointed out the lack of reliable statistical German data on real losses. So, in the same book the following was reported:

«On the loss of personnel in the army since mid-1944 no statistics available».

"Since December 1944 there is no reliable data on losses».

Nevertheless, the organizational department of the OKH (Oberkommando des Heeres, the High Command of the Ground Forces), just four days before the Great Victory Day celebrated by us for almost 76 years (01.05.1945/XNUMX/XNUMX), prepared the last, as they would say today, release, or formally - final certificate of the losses of the German armed forces. This document has been replicated. And many researchers like to refer to it.

So, according to this official German document, the loss of only ground forces (including the SS troops, but without the Air Force and Navy) amounted to 4 troops. (These data were summarized from 617 to 000).

Recall that the Germans themselves indicate that the centralized register of losses in Germany has practically ceased to be worked out since April (approximately from its middle) of the last year of the Great Patriotic War. Well, the information that was entered in the statistics with the onset of 1945 is incomplete and does not correspond to reality (requires rechecking).

And, of course, you cannot ignore the words of the most important mouthpiece of the fascists. Hitler, in one of his final radio broadcasts, personally announced the losses, calling the total losses of the country's armed forces 12, and as irrevocable - 500 Wehrmacht soldiers.

It is easy to see that Hitler's figures exceed the information published by Müller-Hillebrand, almost twice.

These figures were made public in 1945. In March. There were 2 months left before the Victory. It is hard to believe that during these final 60 days before the triumph of our army, the soldiers of Russia / USSR did not destroy a single fascist.

Based on the foregoing, it follows an unambiguous conclusion that the data provided by the German department of losses during the Great Patriotic War cannot be taken as reliable in any way. Accordingly, any objective calculation or fair calculation of the true losses of the servicemen of the Third Reich cannot be based on these information of the Wehrmacht officials.


Alternative statistics


There is another alternative loss accounting system. It is based on the number of graves of German servicemen who died during the Great Patriotic War.

The Federal Republic of Germany has a law on the preservation of burial sites. So, in the appendix to this legislative act, specific numbers of the killed Nazis are indicated.

In particular, we are talking about the total number of Wehrmacht soldiers buried in registered graves, both on the territory of the USSR and on the land of Eastern European countries. This document indicates the total number of such burials - 3. Of these, 226 fascists were buried in the Soviet Union.

It would seem that it is quite reasonable to consider this figure as the basic one when calculating losses in manpower of the Third Reich. However, according to the assurances of experts, this source is not sufficiently realistic and complete.

First of all, this number includes only the graves of Germans with a passport. But after all, servicemen from other countries with a different nationality also fought for Germany.

So, it is known that the citizens of Austria fought for Hitler. They killed 270 soldiers. And also of the Sudeten Germans and Alsatians who supported fascism, 000 were killed. In addition, 230 of the citizens of other countries who had joined the ranks under the Nazi flags and who fought against the Soviet Union were left on the battlefield.

Thus, it should be borne in mind that, in percentage terms, much more foreigners fought for Hitler against us on the Eastern Front than purebred Germans. Experts specifically calculated that the army fought with the USSR, which consisted of foreigners for more than 75-80%. In other words, by no means and far from only Germans.

In other words, this pan-European horde that attacked Russia / USSR was nothing more than a hodgepodge of Europeans of different stripes and nationalities.

Scientists even managed to find out the number of these, as they are also called, aliens in the Wehrmacht army who fought against the USSR / Russia. Hitler had them on the Eastern Front 600-000.

But at the same time it should be understood that these above calculations were carried out in the early nineties of the XX century.

I must say that over the past three decades, search engines, both in the Russian Federation and in the CIS countries, as well as in Eastern Europe, have continued to open more and more burials of soldiers (of both opposing armies) during the Great Patriotic War. Moreover, the information that got into the press or open sources was, to put it mildly, not always accurate and one hundred percent reliable.

Here's an example. In 1992, the Russian Association of War Memorials was established. Its representatives, among other things, released information that over the past decade they transferred to the German side (that is, the German Union for the Care of War Graves) information about the burials of 400 soldiers of the Third Reich in Russia.

However, none of the reports specifically indicated what kind of graves they were. Have they already been taken into account before? And are they already included in the total figure of 3? Unclear. Or maybe it was about completely new finds during this period? Unknown.

Alas, it is difficult to find summary statistics on the newly discovered burial places of German citizens killed in battles during the Great Patriotic War. Although experts agree that over the past decade, about 200-000 such graves could be found.

But besides this, one should be aware that the places of death of the Nazis on the territory of the USSR could well have disappeared from the face of the earth in those years of the war. All these Hitlerites were the same for our civilians then. And they had no other names than "Fritz". It is not surprising that many of the burial places of these Fritzes at that time remained unnamed.

According to experts, on the territory of the Russian Federation there may be similar unnamed and even disappeared burials for about 400-000 German servicemen.

And finally, the above-mentioned list or the register of burials of Germans who attacked Russia and died during the battles with the Red Army did not include those graves that appeared immediately after the battles with Soviet troops outside of both Russia itself and Eastern Europe. We are talking about burials in Western Europe.

Let's take as a starting point - the period in the last three months of the Great Patriotic War. So, German military historians (for example, R. Overmans) indicate that during this particular spring period, preceding May 9, Soviet troops destroyed at least 700 fascists, and scientists call the number of one million Wehrmacht soldiers eliminated then as the maximum limit.

In total, about 1–200 German soldiers died in battles with the Red Army on the territory of Germany and other Western European countries.

But that's not all.

It should be understood that, despite the fact that the war was going on, people continued to die their own deaths. Including the soldiers of the Third Reich. There were about 100-000 such natural deaths in Hitler's army. All of them were also included in the number of burials of Wehrmacht servicemen registered during the same period when the fighting with the Red Army was going on.


Of the Russian specialists, the works of Major General Vladimir Vasilyevich Gurkin, former head of the history and archives department of the General Staff (1978–1989) and consultant of the Military Memorial Center of the Russian Armed Forces, are of interest.

In his works, he studied the losses of the Wehrmacht through the balance of the German armed forces during the war years. The calculations for this specialist are shown in Table 4. Note the second column. Especially those figures that indicate the number of those mobilized into the German army for the entire period of the war with Russia / USSR. And also on the number of German prisoners of war in the Soviet Union.

In the book by B. Müller-Hillebrand "The German Land Army 1933-1945." the total number of those mobilized during the war years is indicated - 17.

However, other researchers hypothesize that there were much more conscripts in Hitler's army - about 19 million people.

Captive Fritzes


The number of prisoners of war (according to V. Gurkin) included both the Nazis captured by the Red Army (3) and those captured by the Allied forces (178) during the entire war until May 000, 4.

But it is also possible that the actual number of prisoners of war is even overestimated, since their list also includes those prisoners who were not Wehrmacht soldiers.

Paul Karel and Gunther Beddecker's book German Prisoners of War of World War II 1939-1945 (2004) states that

"In June 1945, the Allied Joint Command learned that there were 7 prisoners of war and unarmed military personnel in the camps, of whom 614 were already in captivity at the time of the surrender."

At the same time, among the above-mentioned German prisoners of war who were already in the camps (4), in addition to the Wehrmacht servicemen, there were also many other persons. For example, in the French camp Vitry-le-François, among the prisoners

"The youngest was 15 years old, the oldest was almost 70".

Various researchers also mention the prisoners of the Volksturm. There are works describing the practice of the Americans, who organized special "children's" camps, where the captured youths from the "Hitler Youth" and "Werewolf", who were 12-13 years old, were placed. Some scholars also write that among the prisoners in the camps of the allies even disabled and incompetent were kept.


In their memoirs “My way to Ryazan captivity” (1992) Heinrich Schippmann and Manfred Koch recalled the captivity:

“It should be borne in mind that at first they were taken prisoner, although mainly, but not exclusively, not only soldiers of the Wehrmacht or servicemen of the SS units, but also the service personnel of the Air Force, members of Volkssturm or paramilitary unions (organization“ Todt ”,“ Service labor of the Reich ", etc.).

Among them were not only men, but also women - and not only Germans, but also the so-called "Volksdeutsche" and "aliens" - Croats, Serbs, Cossacks, North and West Europeans, who in some way fought on the side of the German Wehrmacht or were reckoned with him.

In addition, during the occupation of Germany in 1945, anyone who wore a uniform was arrested, even if it was the head of the railway station. "
Link

That is, among the 4 German prisoners captured by Allied forces in the period preceding Victory Day (May 200, 000), about a quarter (9-1945%) were not Wehrmacht soldiers.

This suggests that it was the Wehrmacht servicemen in the Allied camps for German prisoners of war that there were from 3 to 100 people.

So, the total number of the Wehrmacht military captured at the time of Germany's surrender was, according to expert estimates, from 6 to 300 people.


Recall that the "Act of unconditional surrender of the German armed forces" entered into force on May 9 at 01:01 Moscow time. It was on this date that the number of prisoners of war was calculated.


In the next article we will continue to consider materials and works on methods of calculating the irrecoverable and demographic losses of the Hitlerite army in the Great Patriotic War.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Aesop's Language of Loss: the Pan-European Empire VS Russia
Losses of Russia / USSR in the war against fascism: language of numbersCivilian casualties in 1941-1945: fakes and facts
Typhus 1941-1944: bacteriological warfare
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  1. Far B
    Far B 28 January 2021 04: 54
    +23
    And no one considered the irrecoverable losses of all kinds of Volkssturm and other Hitler Youth in the final segment of the Second World War, because ... Yes, because to whom, in fig, did they surrender? And they died, logically, much faster than combat soldiers. So the final figure of Germany's military demographic losses, in principle, is seriously higher than the statistically official one.
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 10: 14
      -1
      Quote: Dalny V
      And no one considered the irrecoverable losses of all kinds of Volkssturm and other Hitler Youth in the final segment of the Second World War.

      Maybe bad, but they thought. FSH and GYU are subordinate to the NSDAP, and not to the Wehrmacht and SS. According to R. Overman, according to party data, 78 people were killed by the Volkssturmists.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 28 January 2021 10: 28
      +3
      aunt, what impudence, stubbornness and stupidity. You have already been told that there was no such country "USSR / Russia". Why stubbornly sculpt a hunchback with that name? At least explain? In that country, the USSR did not consist of Russia alone: ​​there were other republics. They did not suffer any losses in your opinion? What nonsense.
      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 12: 22
        +7
        Following the crooked logic of the aunt with the calculator, it should be like this:

        laughing
        1. Gvardeetz77
          Gvardeetz77 28 January 2021 12: 50
          +7
          In her previous article, in her previous article, fascist saboteurs, injected with a typhoid antidote, crawled to our trenches and poured infected lice on the military personnel of the Russian / USSR army, and units and formations during the occupation of the settlement achieved 100% of pediculosis among the inhabitants, because on a real fascist lice do not take root ...
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 14: 26
            +7
            Quote: Gvardeetz77
            Nazi saboteurs, injected with a typhoid antidote, crawled to our trenches and poured infected warheads onto the servicemen of the Russian / USSR army

            Really, I think, the topic is not disclosed:
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 29 January 2021 14: 47
        -1
        Quote: Bar1
        aunt, what impudence, stubbornness and stupidity. You have already been told that there was no such country "USSR / Russia". Why stubbornly sculpt a hunchback with that name? At least explain? In that country, the USSR did not consist of Russia alone: ​​there were other republics. They did not suffer any losses in your opinion? What nonsense.

        The aunt uses three terms in turn - fascists, Nazis and Germans. Not all servicemen were fascists, it's like calling Soviet soldiers Komiunists
      3. Sergey79
        Sergey79 29 January 2021 21: 51
        0
        You are rude. Especially for a woman. I fundamentally disagree with you. Thanks to people like you, our history textbooks are written (for school children). And when our children turn into young people, they believe that Russia, Muscovy, Russian Empire, USSR, Russian Federation are completely different "formations". They have no associations between the USSR and Russia. It is so sad and scary .... "People who do not know their history are doomed to extinction."
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 1 February 2021 13: 21
          +1
          Quote: Sergey79
          You are rude. Especially for a woman. I fundamentally disagree with you. Thanks to people like you, our history textbooks are written (for school children). And when our children turn into young people, they believe that Russia, Muscovy, Russian Empire, USSR, Russian Federation are completely different "formations". They have no associations between the USSR and Russia. It is so sad and scary .... "People who do not know their history are doomed to extinction."

          And how can countries with different social systems and ideologies be the same "formations"?
          1. Sergey79
            Sergey79 3 February 2021 08: 27
            0
            The people inhabiting them are the same. He created both the USSR and the Russian Federation.
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 4 February 2021 10: 20
              0
              Quote: Sergey79
              The people inhabiting them are the same. He created both the USSR and the Russian Federation.

              Well, write in textbooks about the people, and not about "the same education." Before the revolution, I still somehow can admit continuity, but after, when the system and ideology changed radically, no.
          2. zenion
            zenion 7 February 2021 21: 54
            0
            Pilat2009 (Michael). When you say that today's Russia says that it has won the war, they seem to be united, but as a matter of fact, it’s like a completely different matter, if money and so on. It is possible to be the heir of the USSR only if everything remains, as in the days of the USSR. But Lenin planted a bomb, and Boris Yeltsin blew it up in a drunken stupor. If in this form, then the present Russia cannot even be the heir to Tsarist Russia. Or it may be similar to something like Russia during the times of feudalism. And it is still alive due to the fact that most of the nuclear weapons remained from the state that created the nuclear shield, Space and of course galoshes for Africans. As people say, only geniuses can have children.
    3. zenion
      zenion 28 January 2021 21: 34
      0
      It reminded me that I once heard on the radio how many people and what nationality had joined the party during the war. Literally everyone was listed, and then - and other nationalities. And my work colleague laughed - that's what they say about Jews, other nationalities. He was a front-line soldier and during the war at the end of 1941 he joined the party, this is when the Germans stopped advancing and during their rest they were collected and presented with party tickets. Then these tickets were taken away and they were identified in the safe. So the Germans, their allies and other nationalities were captured.
  2. Crowe
    Crowe 28 January 2021 05: 38
    +28
    No matter how many of them died, let them say thank you that they did not kill everyone. After what they did with us, the Soviet soldiers had every moral right to root out all this Germany.
    1. Far B
      Far B 28 January 2021 05: 59
      +10
      Stalin did not allow it. "Hitlers come and go, but the German people remain." But the Angles, for example, proposed a general sterilization of the nemchura ... But, as for me, Stalin was more right in this matter.
      1. smaug78
        smaug78 28 January 2021 10: 37
        -5
        But the Angles, for example, proposed the universal sterilization of the nemchura
        Will you please with the links? And also JV Stalin proposed to shoot thousands of top German leaders.
        1. uralant
          uralant 29 January 2021 21: 25
          0
          Quote: smaug78
          And also JV Stalin proposed to shoot thousands of top German leaders.

          Will you please with Stsylka?
          1. smaug78
            smaug78 30 January 2021 12: 39
            0
            Will Roosevelt's daughter suit? I look forward to your links to sterilization ..
            1. zenion
              zenion 9 February 2021 16: 00
              0
              smaug78 (Boris). You reminded me of Richard's production number two, who shouts - a horse, a horse for me! .. Someone from the audience is shouting, but a donkey will suit you? The actor replies - come up, go up on stage.
              1. smaug78
                smaug78 9 February 2021 16: 43
                0
                What smart or offensive wanted to say? laughing
    2. Connor MacLeod
      Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 06: 13
      +16
      Yes, they will thank you! Go to any Western military forum and read, Germans are sitting everywhere and savoring the "victories" of their ancestors of 1941-1942. You will not wait for the slightest regret in relation to our killed and prisoners from these scum!

      It is a pity that they bent down in May 1945, it would be good if they made it to August and received several atomic bombs for all the good ...
      1. lwxx
        lwxx 28 January 2021 09: 26
        +6
        And who told you that the atomic bombing would be in Germany? They could have sent us an easy one, the "unthinkable" plan was not developed in the month of May.
        1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 12: 33
          -3
          Quote: lwxx
          Could lightly and send us

          what should I send? Where did the British get AB? Churchill, 10 years later, wrote that Japan was still at war, there was no atomic bomb, the Soviet threat replaced the Nazi one.
      2. yehat2
        yehat2 28 January 2021 09: 41
        +18
        sane Germans rarely sit on forums.
        there are several doctors in Austria, England, Germany of sciences (not all stories) who are consistently fighting to make serious adjustments to the assessments of World War II towards balance and not hiding inconvenient facts. For example, they are against the Anglo-American version of history, where the battle of El Alamein is almost the main one in the war. In the United States, in serious universities, history is taught not at all what you see on the forums, but much closer to what Soviet historians say.
        At the same time, all these people are raking in full for their position - up to a complete ban on teaching and publishing on this topic. Recently, an Austrian had to fight back in court because he doubted that the Red Army had raped the entire population of Germany. At the same time, for some reason, no one talks about the American army, which, according to official data, set a record in this matter in France. Why do you think De Gaulle behaved this way after the war? Because the French got more from the "allies" than from the Wehrmacht.
      3. antivirus
        antivirus 28 January 2021 09: 59
        0
        the Germans had to be left against the Poles and the French (".. and other Swedes ..") - the memory will still work
      4. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 10: 18
        0
        Quote: Connor Macleod
        it would be good if they made it to August and got a few atomic bombs for all the good ...

        then, until August 49, in order to test the RDS-1, so to speak, in conditions as close as possible to the apocalypse)
      5. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 12: 54
        +3
        Quote: Connor Macleod
        Go to any Western military forum and read, Germans are sitting everywhere and savoring the "victories" of their ancestors of 1941-1942.

        Should we renounce their “grandfathers” and savor the victories of other people's ancestors? Like, "they poured our frostbitties near Stalingrad, really, kamerada? They hung frostbitten ears on the Christmas tree, lol! Great, great fellows! Thanks to Genosse Stalin for the frozen grandfather!" So what eh ??
        Quote: Connor Macleod
        You will not wait for the slightest regret regarding our killed and captured from these scum!

        Everyone bury their dead. And grieves over his graves.
        1. Connor MacLeod
          Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 14: 37
          +1
          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.

          Should we renounce their “grandfathers” and savor the victories of other people's ancestors? Like, "they poured our frostbitties near Stalingrad, really, kamerada? They hung frostbitten ears on the Christmas tree, lol! Great, great fellows! Thanks to Genosse Stalin for the frozen grandfather!" So what eh ??

          They provoked the war and fought it in violation of all conceivable and inconceivable laws of warfare, as a result of which more than 25 million people died. What to be proud of?

          Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
          Everyone bury their dead. And grieves over his graves.

          So it was necessary to leave more German graves. If it were my will, not a single German would have returned from captivity.
          1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
            Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 14: 46
            -4
            Quote: Connor Macleod
            We should have left more German graves. Be it my will, not a single German returned from captivity.

            stupid emotion. That is, you offer
            Quote: Connor Macleod
            trample all conceivable and inconceivable laws of war

            ?
            But did someone allow the Reich to seize more territory in three months of Barbarossa than during the blitzkrieg in the West? Does every mistake have a name?
            1. Connor MacLeod
              Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 14: 57
              +4
              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              stupid emotion. That is, you offer "
              trample all conceivable and inconceivable laws of war "

              Yes, that's right, eye for an eye. Practice shows that this is the most effective way to reeducate people.

              Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
              But did someone allow the Reich to seize more territory in three months of Barbarossa than during the blitzkrieg in the West? Does every mistake have a name?

              So what? Since one country has better armed forces, then it must attack its neighbors and kill millions of people? Well what can I say, this is the logic of a fascist. If you justify this, then you yourself are a fascist.
              1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 17: 14
                -1
                Quote: Connor Macleod
                what? Since one country has better armed forces, then it must attack its neighbors and kill millions of people? Well what can I say, this is the logic of a fascist. If you justify this, then you yourself are a fascist.

                There it is ...
                Why did you, my dear, write down the leadership of the USSR as fascists? Not good.
                The USSR unleashed the SFV, having objectively stronger armed forces than Finland, didn't it? The bombing of Helsinki, of course, did not take away 'millions', but this aggression (recognized as such by the LN) fits into your logic. Oh yes...
                ... #this is another
                1. Connor MacLeod
                  Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 18: 18
                  0
                  Dexterously you moved off the topic, fascist.
                  1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 18: 44
                    +1
                    The theme is the same. Didn't you write
                    ... Since one country has better armed forces, then it must attack its neighbors and kill millions of people? Well what can I say, this is the logic of a fascist.

                    So what about the Winter War? Other? Or does the degree of 'fascism' depend on the number of those killed?
                    1. Connor MacLeod
                      Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 18: 53
                      -2
                      Firstly, I did not justify the Winter War, did not flaunt it and, unlike you, did not call on the Finns to look for the guilty among their own leadership. Although the analogy is really stupid. Civilian casualties are incomparable, and that's putting it mildly. Plus, the Finns participated in the aggression against the USSR together with the Germans. Another big question is who has more war crimes - small Finland or big USSR?
                      1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 19: 49
                        +1
                        ... unlike you, he did not call on the Finns to look for the guilty among their own leadership.

                        ?
                        You have a funny way of attributing to the interlocutor what he did not say)
                        I understand that this is very convenient for labeling, but let's stick to the text of the comments, and not your fantasies)
                        ... Plus, the Finns took part in the aggression against the USSR together with the Germans.

                        War-extension is a separate topic. Don't 'move out' using your terminology.
                        ... Civilian casualties are incomparable

                        So the main thing is the quantity? Or the fact of aggression? Is it possible to rehabilitate an aggressor if he suffered great sacrifices in the future? Is it so? Okay, is the bombing of German cities a war crime or is it "right for them"?
                      2. Connor MacLeod
                        Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 20: 02
                        -3
                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        You have a funny way of attributing to the interlocutor what he did not say)
                        I understand that this is very convenient for labeling, but let's stick to the text of the comments, and not your fantasies)

                        "But did someone allow the Reich to seize more territory in three months of Barbarossa than during the blitzkrieg in the West? Does every mistake have a name?"

                        Who said that? You or me?

                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        The continuation war is a separate topic. Don't 'move out' using your terminology.

                        You were the first to get off topic and pulled the Winter War by the ears.

                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        So the main thing is the quantity? Or the fact of aggression? Is it possible to rehabilitate an aggressor if he suffered great sacrifices in the future? Is it so?

                        What kind of aggression did the USSR commit against Germany that would justify such sacrifices among the civilian population?

                        Quote: Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Okay, is the bombing of German cities a war crime or is it "right for them"?

                        I believe that not only did they deserve it, they also got off easy. As I said at the very beginning, the atomic bombings of German cities would be just right ...
                      3. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
                        Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 20: 56
                        0
                        ... the atomic bombings of German cities would have been just right ...

                        Clear. I have no more questions. hi
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 28 January 2021 18: 36
            +3
            Quote: Connor Macleod
            Yes, that's right, eye for an eye. Practice shows that this is the most effective way to reeducate people.

            Practice shows that this is the surest way to lose everything that you can and stay at an empty trough. There is nothing easier than killing, but killing does not mean winning. The avengers will take the place of those killed ... It's more difficult to win, it's not for the stupid. Because to win means to make yesterday's enemies friends, or let them remain enemies, but they bring you more benefit than harm. Available? If not, then wipe the snot, and once again think about what you read!
            1. Connor MacLeod
              Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 19: 05
              -3
              Well, who did you make a friend there? Germany chtoli? Do not make me laugh! The Germans don’t give a fuck about Russians! First of all, thanks to such information collaborationists as you! And for comparison, look at the relations between Germany and the United States. Do you know the difference? The fact that in the United States there is a Jewish diaspora that will NEVER forgive the Germans and will not forget ANYTHING! And until the end of time they will spread rot! It is only in Russia that it is possible to write off 20+ million people. "Nothing women still nag!"
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 28 January 2021 19: 25
                0
                Quote: Connor Macleod
                Well, who did you make a friend there? Germany chtoli?

                I was not a member of the Soviet government, so I never made anyone an enemy there. And even now, such a conception is not personally in front of me. But the fact that the enemy can be made a friend or made to work for you is beyond doubt. You can't force the dead. You can live.
                1. Connor MacLeod
                  Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 19: 49
                  0
                  History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood. In fact, after the war, the Germans were treated quite nobly. As a result, the FRG is a country unfriendly to Russia.
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  3. ANB
    ANB 29 January 2021 00: 38
    +1
    ... whose standard of living is many times higher than your own

    Hmm. Levels, they are different.
    I doubt that an ordinary German's standard of living is much higher than mine.
    For the rest, I tend to your opinion.
    Good night, Vyacheslav Olegovich.
  4. kalibr
    kalibr 29 January 2021 07: 49
    0
    Quote: ANB
    Good night, Vyacheslav Olegovich.

    Good morning to you!
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  • Bar1
    Bar1 29 January 2021 06: 26
    +6
    Quote: Connor Macleod
    So it was necessary to leave more German graves. If it were my will, not a single German would have returned from captivity.


    It’s good that you don’t decide anything in such matters. Let me remind you that in the Warsaw Treaty system, the GDR Army was the most combat-ready and most loyal to the ideas of socialism.
  • Kote Pan Kokhanka
    Kote Pan Kokhanka 28 January 2021 06: 19
    +17
    Quote: Crowe
    No matter how many of them died, let them say thank you that they did not kill everyone. After what they did with us, the Soviet soldiers had every moral right to root out all this Germany.

    I subscribe to all letters!
  • Captain Pushkin
    Captain Pushkin 28 January 2021 17: 51
    +4
    Quote: Crowe
    After what they did with us, the Soviet soldiers had every moral right to ruin all this Germany at the root.

    My father said that after the end of the war in East Prussia, a local German complained that the cows were taken from them. His father asked him what they would have done after the war if the Red Army had reached Berlin on the way doing what the Germans were doing in the USSR, and then the Germans would have taken and won the war.
    The German thought and said that everyone would be hanged.
  • Sergey79
    Sergey79 3 February 2021 08: 31
    0
    I agree. But in all centuries the Russian soldier was distinguished by his generosity. There are a lot of examples. And, practically, he always had a full moral right.
  • svp67
    svp67 28 January 2021 05: 45
    +11
    In the second half of the war, how many Germans were surrounded and staggered along our rear lines, trying to break through to their own ... did the Germans count this number? Not all of them managed to do this or be captured
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 January 2021 07: 24
    -5
    Explanatory article, thanks!
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 28 January 2021 07: 32
    +3
    Harmful and spiteful W. Churchill generally suggested starving out the population of Germany after the war. Thank God that he then lost the elections - then it is not known how life could have been for the Germans after 1945! So our I. V. Stalin was indeed a great humanist. If Leon Trotsky had been in his post, he would have shot the Germans left and right ...
  • Unknown
    Unknown 28 January 2021 07: 37
    +13
    The topic is interesting, especially German prisoners of war, and who, in general, was in the Wehrmacht. "The youngest was 15 years old, the oldest was almost 70"
    ... But with these, what to do? For prisoners to count, or send home to mother, wipe snot? It is not excluded that our tanks could have been burned out of the faustpatron, it was in the hands of a boy, that the uncle was bringing death. There is another category ...
    these or others .......
    ..., whose losses will they be attributed to? Probably they will say they were citizens of the USSR, which means they lost the Union. But they then fought on the side of Nazi Germany, and killed the citizens of their country. And they died in battles with partisans, with units of the Red Army and in considerable numbers. .Here with them it is necessary to decide, to attribute all traitors to the losses of the Germans, so it will be more accurate.
  • Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
    Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 09: 43
    +3
    in the battle with the USSR / Russia


    the lady with the calculator insistently slashes the name of the Union. And the iron argument to this coquetry, as I understand it, "Well, both enemies and allies called the USSR" Russia "!"
    I imagine:
    "Chancellor of the Third Reich / Germany Angela Merkel, welcoming the President of the Reichsgau / Poland ...."
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 28 January 2021 10: 17
    +4
    1. The language of the article causes rejection:

    The first four were devoted to losses of Russia

    They insist that in our prisons the Nazis were not nearly 2,4 million

    such a number fighters Wehrmacht

    domestic specialists, held captive by the Soviets passed away

    was in British and American captivity, after which he became a member of the Historical Division of the United States Army, where he wrote several studies on history Great Patriotic War.

    USSR / Russia


    The author is clearly young (this is an absolute plus) and, probably, that is why he does not see how these expressions cut the ear: the losses were the USSR as a whole, not Russia, the fighters were with us, and not in the Wehrmacht, the prisoners were held NOT in prisons, but in camps, and a German from the US Army could not write about the Second World War, but only about WWII, "at the Soviets" is not our expression, etc.

    The following: in the article we see a chaotic set of numbers that often contradict the author's statements, for example:
    like this :
    Based on domestic data, it is known that order was captured in the USSR 3 cmilitary personnel of the Third Reich.
    and this:
    in the book "The War of Germany against the Soviet Union 1941-1945" edited by the German historian Reinhard Rürup (1991) emphasizes that

    “During the war, about 3,15 million German soldiers

    consistent with this:
    Between the domestic and Western approaches to counting, there is a difference in the calculation of the Germans who fell into our camps during the war.

    we are talking about approximately 700 differently recorded prisoners.
    ?

    As you can see, the numbers are the same.

    True, the author then introduces the Russian estimate of 2,4 million prisoners, but then what to do with the previously cited conscientious figure of 3,1 million? Nobody denied it.

    A reference to the "historian" (lover of dismemberment) Sokolov, in general, I think, bad manners ....
  • Glory1974
    Glory1974 28 January 2021 10: 23
    +5
    But besides this, one should be aware that the places of death of the Nazis on the territory of the USSR could well have disappeared from the face of the earth in those years of the war.

    There are many such burials.
    After the retreat of the Fritzes, many of their graves were simply razed to the ground. There is a photo of a German cemetery in the park of the Tsar's palace in Pavlovsk near St. Petersburg, but in 1945 it is no longer there, neat flowerbeds were again broken in this place. During the retreat, the Germans did not bury their own, it was not possible, and ours doubt that having buried the invaders in common graves , erected monuments or crosses to them.
    1. dust31
      dust31 28 January 2021 16: 22
      0
      ours often did not bury either their own or the Germans during the offensive
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 29 January 2021 08: 21
        +3
        ours often did not bury either their own or the Germans during the offensive

        The advancing units, yes, did not deal with the funeral; it was done by specially appointed people from the rear chats and units. For example, in the shelves, the funeral team is the orchestra, if possible, they do it. During the offensive, special teams collected abandoned weapons and ammunition, and were engaged in the burial of the dead.
  • smaug78
    smaug78 28 January 2021 10: 38
    +2
    The article is more about propaganda / emotions, like the whole cycle of the author ...
  • Chack wessel
    Chack wessel 28 January 2021 11: 01
    0
    It makes no sense to compare the losses of the parties without linking them to the achieved result.
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 28 January 2021 11: 56
    +3
    losses of the German army in the battle with Russia / USSR.
    Everything would be fine, but from article to article the author is constantly confused Russia-USSR. Let's conduct a small educational program. Germany was not at war with Russia. In the First World War, Germany fought with the Russian Empire, in the Great Patriotic War NAZIGermany fought with the USSR, and not with Russia alone. Due to this confusion in the author's head, many theses and statements begin to carry a completely different meaning. But if we return to the title
    Germany's losses in the battle with the USSR / Russia 1941-1945: truth and deception
    We read what battle is
    Battle (General Battle) - large-scale military action (including hostilities) between two parties that are in a state of war (armed conflict) with each other.
    The name of the battle is usually given by the area where it took place. Battles differ from battles and battles in their scale and significance and are often decisive for the outcome of a war.

    But Nazi (fascist) Germany waged a full-scale war with the USSR.
    War - a conflict between political entities - states, tribes, political groups and so on - that occurs on the basis of various claims, in the form of armed confrontation, military (combat) actions between their armed forces.
    As a rule, war is a means of imposing one's will on the enemy. One subject of politics is trying to forcefully change the behavior of another, make him give up his freedom, ideology, rights to property, to give up resources: territory, water area, and more.
    According to Clausewitz's formulation, "war is the continuation of politics by other, violent means."
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 28 January 2021 12: 00
    +6
    They insist that in our prisons of the Nazis there were not nearly 2,4 million (Russian archives), but about 3 (German lists of missing persons) fascists.
    In fact, the author has a very poor command of the topic, prisoners of war were kept in POW Camps. Prisons held criminals, including military
  • Fitter65
    Fitter65 28 January 2021 12: 03
    +2
    number of soldiers of the Wehrmacht
    And what about the Wehrmacht servicemen to write for a long time or not when?
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 13: 32
      +4
      Quote: Fitter65
      number of soldiers of the Wehrmacht
      And what about the Wehrmacht servicemen to write for a long time or not when?

      The aunt with the calculator is more in numbers, not letters.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 January 2021 14: 49
    +5
    "Experts specifically calculated", "Scientists managed to find out" ... -
    and no links. What kind of specialists, what kind of scientists?
    Pseudo-statistics ...
    1. Paragraph Epitafievich Y.
      Paragraph Epitafievich Y. 28 January 2021 21: 34
      +5
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Pseudo-statistics

      But the headline is pretentious enough - 'truth and deception'. I suppose, like any dilettante, the lady with the calculator, of course, does not pretend to anything but the truth. In the final and final instance. Before that, everyone lied to you, and now - the moment of truth has come.
      The value of this writing is nil.
    2. Fitter65
      Fitter65 29 January 2021 01: 50
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      "Experts specifically calculated", "Scientists managed to find out" ... -
      and no links. What kind of specialists, what kind of scientists?

      It's just that you either did not carefully, or did not fully read the article, or all together. At the end of the article, the name and surname, or a specialist, or a scientist, or all together are given - Author: Irina Frolova ... laughing laughing laughing
      1. Dart
        Dart 29 January 2021 20: 31
        +1
        With such irresponsibility in terms, it would not be worth it and "Claudia" to sit down.
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 28 January 2021 15: 03
    +4
    The irrecoverable loss of Germany and its satellites is all mobilization because they capitulated. All of their soldiers either died, or were captured, or finally surrendered in surrender. All these are irrecoverable war losses.
  • Connor MacLeod
    Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 15: 27
    -3
    Irrecoverable losses of the parties in the Second World War according to Krivosheev and Overmans. Germany on the left, USSR on the right. By neighborhoods, in thousands of people.

    Summer 41 
    185:2067

    Autumn 41 
    117:926

    Winter 42
    136:619

    Spring 42
    90:776

    Summer 42
    145:1141

    Autumn 42
    135:455

    Winter 43
    294:656
      
    Spring 43
    48:125

    Summer 43
    187:694

    Autumn 43
    169:501

    Winter 44
    228:470

    Spring 44
    263:251

    Summer 44
    519:430

    Autumn 44
    223:259

    Winter 45
    ??? : 468
      
    Spring 45
    ??? : 163

    They fought ...
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 28 January 2021 21: 58
      +5
      The quarterly breakdown is, of course, not very correct.
      It is more accurate to break up in battles.
      For example, the great losses of the Germans "summer 44" - this is clear: Operation Bagration.
      But "winter 44 - spring 44" cannot be broken. There is a battle "liberation of Crimea"
      with heavy losses of the Germans, and the battle in the north-center (Novgorod region, eastern Belarus)
      with heavy losses of both Germans and Russians.
      1. Connor MacLeod
        Connor MacLeod 28 January 2021 22: 14
        +2
        Krivosheev has a breakdown of battles, I don't know about Overmans. The Germans still have a breakdown of the Land Forces armies by month. They are very fond of citing it, although it is incomplete, it does not include those who died from wounds in hospitals and during the evacuation phase, the loss of the Wafen SS, the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe. But it can be used to calculate the approximate German losses in battles ...
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 29 January 2021 14: 09
      +1
      Well, yes, the only question is, how did the Germans end up losing the war so devastatingly? Their mob resource was not much larger.
  • svoit
    svoit 28 January 2021 15: 50
    -1
    If we can still agree with the difficulties of our losses, then the German ones can be counted without any problems at all, you can generally count every German citizen.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 28 January 2021 22: 06
      +4
      Not really. recourse The Germans had reliable reporting until summer 44.
      And after the defeat in Operation Bagration, reporting gaps began.
      There are many "missing persons" on the eastern front.
      Plus - carpet bombing of cities by the allies, where they died, including
      wounded soldiers in hospitals and soldiers on leave and school cadets.
      At the end of 44, the Germans did not know very well what irrecoverable losses they had.
      The chaos of a lost war ...
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 28 January 2021 16: 14
    0
    Quote: Connor Macleod
    Irrecoverable losses of the parties in the Second World War according to Krivosheev and Overmans. Germany on the left, USSR on the right.

    This is not all irrecoverable losses, but only the dead. Rather, it is a demographic loss, although it also includes emigration.
    Irrecoverable war losses: those who died for all reasons + those who were captured, including during surrender + that part of the wounded and sick who lost their ability to serve in the armed forces.
  • BAI
    BAI 28 January 2021 16: 24
    +4
    1.
    Germans lie too

    And how:
    Approximately one in three died in captivity. "

    They give the ideological basis that in the German captivity there was a more humane attitude towards the prisoners than in the Soviet one.
    2.
    It is based on the number of graves of German servicemen who died during the Great Patriotic War.

    On the territory of the Halb cauldron, unburied remains of the Germans are still found. And how many of them are in the territory of the former USSR - do not count.
  • dust31
    dust31 29 January 2021 10: 17
    0
    Quote: glory1974
    The advancing units, yes, did not deal with the funeral; it was done by specially appointed people from the rear chats and units. For example, in the shelves, the funeral team is the orchestra, if possible, they do it. During the offensive, special teams collected abandoned weapons and ammunition, and were engaged in the burial of the dead.

    in our area you can see these commands profiled. Search engines and black diggers collected. And ours and the Germans, and the horsemen, and this is in the forest near the city and village. And this is already 43 years old, the Battle of Kursk. What happened before, and there is nothing to say. According to the recollections of an acquaintance of his grandfather, in the rear (here again) the Germans buried their own people, while ours were forced to collect and bury civilians, so that they themselves would not brush themselves.
  • Bashibuzuk1
    Bashibuzuk1 29 January 2021 12: 49
    +2
    Another revision of the results of the Second World War. Halder has memoirs - read them. Loss ..... the verbiage continues.
    Reading Chuikov's memoirs "Defense of Stalingrad" edition of 1948-9, I don't remember exactly, the figures of losses were indicated on both sides, and NOBODY denied them. Now it started ...
    There are materials from the Nuremberg trials, everything is also documented there on the civilian population and prisoners of war.
    But. again ... THIS (materials) is all a lie, now after more than 70 years "WE KNOW EVERYTHING" .... The USSR suffered heavy losses, no one argues, but how many citizens of the USSR fought against their own country, no one wants to know for sure, but they have already been included in the losses of the Red Army and the civilian population ..... Hence the Khrushchev and Gorbachev regime with Yeltsin and Co. (Solzhenitsy, Rezun and other rabble)
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 29 January 2021 14: 07
    0
    German graves were massively destroyed during the Second World War. But in vain, now it would be possible to drive excursions and show that "Hans lies here, Hans came to kill Soviet citizens, his stomach was ripped open with a bayonet in hand-to-hand combat", etc.
  • Andrew ))))))
    Andrew )))))) 31 January 2021 10: 50
    0
    I don’t understand one thing, why this article, how many Germans and Europeans were captured or died in Russia, they themselves attacked themselves
  • Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 31 January 2021 12: 43
    0
    Money for the fish again! The Germans lost 8 million 630 thousand people in the war with us. We are 8 million 987 thousand people. Yes, our losses are greater, but not much. Civilians: 10 million Germans, we have about 27 million people ...