Transparency and secrecy. New details of the PAK DP project

MiG-31BM is the only specialized interceptor of the Russian Aerospace Forces

In recent days, there have been several interesting messages about the project "Perspective aviation long-range interception complex "(PAK DP). So, it was announced the start of development work, and in addition, some organizational and technical details were freely available. The available information does not yet provide a complete picture, but reveals its main points.

According to the latest data

A few days ago, specialized resources drew attention to two government purchases posted on the state website of the same name. The subject of interest was procurement No. 31908747186 "Execution of works by the mid-range of R&D code" PAK DP-Vympel "dated December 31, 2019 and No. 32009404905" Investigation of the aerodynamic characteristics of the PAK DP model in ADT T-102 "dated August 14, 2020 It should be noted that these documents were known earlier, but only now they were opened on the official resource.

RSK MiG was the customer for both purchases. Various documents have been published containing unclassified information of an organizational and technical nature. In particular, it is known from them that in the MiG corporation the new PAK DP project bears the working designation “Product 41”, which corresponds to the well-known unofficial MiG-41 index.

Literally the next day after the publication of the two purchases, on January 22nd, Rostec announced interesting information. The publication dedicated to the Air Defense Forces Aviation Day disclosed the current work and plans for the development of the MiG-31 interceptor aircraft fleet. In addition, the development of the next generation interceptor was briefly mentioned. It is reported that the PAK DP project is at the stage of development work.

From official sources

It should be recalled that the management of the RAC "MiG" and unofficial sources of the Russian media have previously repeatedly touched upon the development of the PAK DP and disclosed this or that information. Some of this information was subsequently confirmed and allows for a more complete picture.

MiG-31 with ammunition

In mid-2017, the management of the development organization said that the new type of interceptor would be able to reach speeds of more than M = 4. There was also information about the potential to intercept objects in low orbits. In the middle of 2019, RSK MiG said that the new aircraft will be built using modern technologies, and one of the advantages over the current MiG-31 will be an increased interception radius.

For the purchase dated August 14, 2020, a terms of reference for one of the previous studies was attached, giving some details. In 2017-18. The Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, commissioned by RAC "MiG", has already carried out an integral part of the research work (SCH R&D) to study the PAK DP model in a wind tunnel. Then the product "41" passed more than 240 tests in different modes. A program of such tests was attached to the terms of reference.

In the draft procurement contract No. 31908747186 it was mentioned that by the end of 2019 it was necessary to justify the scientific and technical concept of the PAK DP. This work included determining the prospects of the PAK DP product itself, analyzing foreign developments, assessing the backlog for project implementation, finding ways to integrate the interceptor into the videoconferencing system, etc.

Appearance issues

In the terms of reference for research at TsAGI, it was noted that the aerodynamic appearance of the "41" model is not secret. Product images were not shown, but some of its features are clear from the test program. Other features of the interceptor are still in question.

Apparently, the PAK DP will receive a combined airframe of metal and composite parts. It is possible to use the "tailless" or "duck" scheme. The tail unit will only include a pair of rudder keels. The wing mechanization consists of three sections of elevons on each plane and three-section braking surfaces.

Other aspects of the PAK DP project have not yet been disclosed to the desired extent, although there are various estimates and forecasts. So, it is obvious that a fundamentally new sighting and navigation system will be created for the 41 aircraft, surpassing the equipment of the existing MiG-31, incl. the latest modification "BM". The basis of this complex will be a radar of an unknown type. In terms of its parameters, it should surpass the serial product "Zaslon". With the same or greater range, this station must detect and track subtle targets. It is also necessary to increase the speed of onboard systems and full integration into modern and promising command and control systems.

Past statements of speeds over 3-4M indicate the need for a new turbojet engine. At the same time, the use of one of the existing or developed samples with suitable characteristics is not excluded. In particular, at the level of rumors, there were reports of the possible integration of the "Product 30" developed for the PAK FA.

The question of armaments remains open. Like its predecessor, the MiG-31, the new PAK DP should carry a specialized long-range intercept missile. About a year ago, it was reported that the development of such a product began and is being carried out within the framework of the project "Multifunctional long-range intercept missile system" (MRK DP). During its creation, developments on the existing K-77M medium-range missile can be used.

The tactical and technical characteristics of the future PAK DP remain unknown, but it was reported that it would surpass the MiG-31 in basic parameters and capabilities. This indicates the need to obtain a speed of at least M = 3, a practical ceiling of more than 20-21 km and a combat radius of over 700-750 km. The main weapons The MiG-31 is an R-33 air-to-air missile, the latest modification of which has a range of up to 300 km. The new rocket of the MRK DP project should show, at least, not the worst characteristics.

Transparency and secrecy

The development of the "Advanced Long-Range Intercept Aviation Complex" has been going on for several years. New information appears regularly, both from the developers and from unofficial press sources. Due to this, an increasingly detailed and accurate picture is gradually being formed - although it will not be fully formed too soon and some of the data will still remain closed.

It should be expected that the observed processes will continue in the future, and not only in the context of the "Perspective long-range intercept aviation complex". In the further development of the project, the necessary secrecy regime will be observed, but at the same time, some transparency of the work should be expected. This will allow the aviation industry to create a new aircraft and not reveal its secrets, but at the same time stir up public interest and give them a reason to be proud.

Comments

[Lech from Android.]

Discussing the secret weapon in the media ... what kind of secrecy is there. We will do this online soon.

[Uncle lee]

The performance characteristics of the future PAK DP remain unknown

That's all the info about the PAK DP ... But it will be cooler than the MiG-31!

[A1845]

The basis of this complex will be an unknown type of radar.

.. and on new physical principles

[Andrew_A]

Yeah, Murakhovsky in his TG channel https://t.me/Viktor_Murakhovskiy jokes: "According to military-science sources, the ability to" break through "ROC, without having NTZ according to the results of research, is highly appreciated in the space-air force. methodology on the MiK-131BMV, the developers have begun to build a digital twin of the prototype MiK-141 generation ± 6 under the code "Kriel-Interfector" (© jrandall). Vertical launch allows you to save billions on the construction of airfields. Weapons on the new physical principles of the latest interceptor and network-centric the MiK-141 flock control system provides round-the-clock patrolling in the vicinity of the planet's poles with the possibility of destroying satellites, intercontinental ballistic missiles and the customer's imagination in any hemisphere. "
And he posted top-secret pictures, bastard!

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Discussing the secret weapon in the media ..

Nui, what secret did we discuss?

Product images were not shown,

Other features of the interceptor are still in question.

Other aspects of the PAK DP project have not yet been disclosed to the desired extent,

The performance characteristics of the future PAK DP remain unknown,

Well, the highlight on the cake

... In the further development of the project, the necessary secrecy regime will be observed, but at the same time, some transparency of the work should be expected. This will allow the aviation industry to create a new aircraft and not reveal its secrets,

So there is nothing to discuss yet

[Dread]

Quote: Article author Ryabov Kirill

"Multifunctional missile system long-range interception " (MRK DP). During its creation, developments on the existing K-77M medium-range missile can be used.

The author - it was more correct to write - when creating it, they can
to use the developments on the existing RVV-BD missiles:
R-37M, KS-172 and RVV - SD K-77M. It will be much more accurate.

[Vadim237]

All these air-to-air missiles are already obsolete. KTRV creates new ones.

[Ka-52]

It is possible to use the "tailless" or "duck" scheme.

neither one nor the other is in principle not suitable for a high-speed interceptor. He needs a wing with the lowest Cx (drag k), while being sufficiently rigid. S wing here only negatively affects the ability to constructively create a rigid spar scheme. Plus, the larger the streamlined surface, the higher the friction.
The duck is good for the airplane's maneuverability, not speed. And even more so for a high-speed interceptor "tailless" will not work.

[nsm1]

But what about the Tu-144, Concorde, SR-71?
All "ducks" and "tailless".

[Ka-52]

But what about the Tu-144, Concorde, SR-71?
All "ducks" and "tailless".

don't confuse horseradish with a finger. For passenger aircraft, technical solutions are subject to other requirements. The NW interceptor's task is not just to fly on a cruising NW, but to have a speed above 3M. At the same time, be able to make evolutions in course and altitude. At such speeds, the aerodynamic, gas-dynamic and thermodynamic effects on the structure are completely different than at 1M +/-

[nsm1]

Above 3M, it seems, only SR-71 ...
And it's not a passenger one.

[Ka-52]

Above 3M, it seems, only SR-71 ...
And it's not a passenger one.

The SR-71 generally has a maximum aspect ratio wing. Tk is a scout and his task is in flight for as long as possible. Such wings are designed to reduce parasitic drag. Before writing about the SR-71, you should probably think about what the speed of the steady turn it has

[novel66]

by the way, even at altitudes over 20 km, elevons are hardly effective

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Ka-52

this is a scout

In his first life, he was precisely an interceptor.

[Alipes]

Ka-52, you should not use terms from aircraft aerodynamics. The wing aspect ratio is equal to the span-to-midpoint ratio, so the wing aspect ratio of a sports glider is almost an order of magnitude greater than that of the SR-71.

[venik]

Quote: nsm1

But what about the Tu-144, Concorde, SR-71?
All "ducks" and "tailless".

=======
Forgot about the experimental: XB-70 Valkyrie and T-4 "Sotka" - they are also "tailless ducks" ..... True, up to 3M + the speed of approx. 3 200 km / h

[novel66]

bombers are not fighters

[venik]

Quote: novel xnumx

bombers are not fighters

========
Agree - NOT fighters! And in THIS particular case, in WHAT do you think is the PRINCIPAL difference?
Only by Christ the god, don't say: "in agility"!!! Because the MiG-31's maneuverability is hardly superior to the front-line bombers Su-24 and Su-34!

[Ka-52]

Forgot about the experimental: XB-70 Valkyrie and T-4 "Sotka" - they are also "tailless ducks" wink ..... True, up to 3M + the speed was not accelerated there approx. 3 200 km / h

The XB-70 Valkyrie is a duck with classic keels. In the case of duck and tailless, there is a balancing problem. This is solved by the S-profile, but requires a reduction in wing loading.

[venik]

Quote: Ka-52

The XB-70 Valkyrie is a duck with classic keels. In the case of duck and tailless, there is a balancing problem. This is solved by the S-profile, but requires a reduction in wing loading.

=======
Consonant! But, on the other hand, the "tailless" or "duck" scheme - allows you to create schemes with much larger wing area! This means that the issue of specific wing loading can be less! And the circuit itself allows you to significantly simplify the design and reduce its weight.
Once upon a time, a very, very long time ago, I came across a table of comparative characteristics of the maneuverability of the most popular generation 2-3 fighters (based on thrust-to-weight ratio and wing load). Until now I have memorized some numbers: SAAB-J-35 (135 kg / m2) had the lowest wing loading, the second and third places were Mirage-III and Mirage-V (230 and 280 kg / m2). All 3 - "tailless" (!) .... The MiG-21 wing loading ranged (depending on the modification) from 320 to 380 kg / m2, the "Phantom" (also depending on the modification) - from 300 to 410 kg / m2.
If you made a mistake in the numbers (the memory is already failing) - correct (you are in this better understand!) ....

[Ka-52]

But, on the other hand, the "tailless" or "duck" scheme allows you to create schemes with a much larger wing area! This means that the issue of specific wing loading can be less!

yes, that's right - you can compensate for the specific load by increasing the S wing. But here we are stepping on the throat of the construct: the greater the wing aspect ratio or its area, the more difficult it is to create a narrow (along the chord) and rigid wing. I wrote above that here the question is already moving into the plane of structural strength and torsional rigidity of the wing. And without a narrow wing, drag will be too high at high speeds above 3M. For straight-line and high-altitude flights of reconnaissance aircraft, the SR-71 type will do, but for an interceptor, which must fly closer to the ground and even engage in combat, this will threaten problems.

[Mavrikiy]

In mid-2017, the management of the developer organization said that a new type of interceptor would be able to reach speeds of more М = 4 [b] The available information does not yet allow us to form a complete picture, but reveals its main points.

Past statements about speeds over [b] 3-4M indicate the need for a new turbojet engine.

This indicates the need to obtain a speed of at least M = 3,

What I see, I sing ...

The available information does not yet provide a complete picture, but reveals its main points.

I wonder which of the 3 options? M = 4 M = 3 M is the speed of sound! M = 1191,6 km / h.

[venik]

Quote: Mavrikiy

I wonder which of the 3 options? М = 4 belay М = 3 belay М - speed of sound! foolМ = 1191,6 km / h.

=======
Actually the speed of sound is not constant! Just at ground level, at a temperature of 0 degrees C, and an atmospheric pressure of 10.3 kPa. The speed of sound is 335 m / s. But at an altitude of 20 km - it is already 295.07 m / s (only 1 km / h) ...
So, the confusion is even more ...

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: venik

Actually, the speed of sound is not a constant!

Right. Did they tell you that at school?

So the confusion is even greater ...

There is no confusion if there is no goal to pull the owl onto the globe. .

[venik]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Quote: venik
Actually, the speed of sound is not a constant!
Right. Did they tell you that at school?

========
Well, to be honest, I first learned before school, from my father (a military pilot), then they kept repeating this at school, then at the Physics Department ..... So, this is already "bald patch" ...... ...
--------

Quote: Mavrikiy

There is no confusion if there is no goal to pull the owl onto the globe. request.

========
The confusion arises in an attempt to figure out where is the "owl" and where is the "globe"!

[Ugochaves]

Only one author could pour so much water into the water. I guessed right from the first paragraph

[Thrifty]

Fortune telling on the coffee grounds will give a lot more information than this article! And, more grandmothers in the yard can tell all the performance characteristics of the aircraft

[rocket757]

It is worth waiting, and then ... if it works out, AGAIN, having no analogues in the world, we will not be offended !!!

[Zaurbek]

Using the example of the introduction of Su57 ..... 41st will be by the end of the century. And the Su57 does not yet have serial production and its turbojet engine does not have serial production and many of its weapons do not have serial production .... the Su30 and Su35S have not been modernized in its image ... it works at the current pace, for 50 years, for sure.

[El Chuvachino]

Why not 500 years?

[Zaurbek]

Because it is a complex product, economically without a chance of recoupment and few in production ...

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

Because a complex product economically no chance of payback and few in production ...

==========
HOW in general military equipment CAN PAY OFF? Could you tell?

[Zaurbek]

Export .... take the Su30 for example.

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

Export .... take the Su30 for example.

=========
I was expecting exactly SUCH a question, therefore I immediately answer: even if the equipment for export (the same Su-30, for example) is sold at a price much higher than the MO buys, then it cannot all BE PAYED OUT, by definition! Simply by the fact that "payback" is the property of a product (product, product, equipment) to produce Additional cost, in the production of other products and goods that can then be sold and the added value can be used to offset the cost of PRODUCTION equipment! MANUFACTURER, Karl! And military equipment is nothing do not producet!
Therefore, in your example, we can talk about the payback of the production equipment of the Su-30 manufacturer, but by no means the aircraft itself!

[Zaurbek]

This is not a comm project. (Su30) but export allows, in addition to income, to get a large series, without that serial aircraft ... ... in the case of the PakD, there is neither the first nor the second ... ... there will be a unique turbojet engine and a unique fuselage. RF is not the USSR and will not pull such a program. Moreover, there will be no grand advantage over the Su57.

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

This is not a comm project. (Su30) but export allows, in addition to income, to receive a large batch , without that serial aircraft ...

=========
This is absolutely right! Not commercial! But in itself, the concept of "payback" is purity. COMMERCIAL: no concept "income" And "profit"- meaning not having!!!
As for the "big series" - this is just a way to REDUCE the costs of (purely costly!) purchases for own needs (defense). Those. - just REDUCE your own expenses!
-------

Quote: Zaurbek

RF is not the USSR and will not pull such a program.

=========
Very controversial statement! Even morethan controversial !!! Can you provide any "layouts" for calculating the estimated cost of the "program"? And what about the GDP growth forecast? And according to the forecast of the "reserve fund"? No? I can not too! And by this, all the arguments on the topic "pull - will not pull" - no more than the forecasts of the OBS ("one grandmother said") .....

[Zaurbek]

At the cost, just, you can count ... ... before us is the PAK FA program. And in terms of GDP growth, just no. Therefore, I am inclined to this opinion. And before the eyes of China and the United States, which unify combat aircraft, and do not produce "a pair of each creature"

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

At the cost, just, you can count ... ... before us is the PAK FA program.

========
WHY IS PAK-FA? It is called: "Where is the eyeball, and where is the Crimea?" .... There is common - only "PAK" and no more ...
We cannot even imagine the program "PAK-DP" more complicated and, accordingly, more expensive than "PAK-FA", or vice versa - simpler and cheaper ..... It may be that here we can talk about deep modernization MiG-31 or about creation fundamentally new car? Perhaps both one and the other ...
--------

Quote: Zaurbek

And in terms of GDP growth, just no.

==========
Exactly! You hardly had to deal with forecasting macroeconomic indicators - oh, this is a thankless task, I will report to you ...
--------

Quote: Zaurbek

And before the eyes of China and the United States, which unify combat aircraft, and do not produce "a pair of each creature"

=========
Oh is it? Well, about the "states" somehow you can agree ... And then - with a big-oo-oo-big "stretch" ....... You certainly can't say the same about the PRC: that's really where "variety and variety" of various projects, so it's you - in vain (in the sense of dragging China) ....

[Zaurbek]

1. Why is PakFA not an example for you? Development from "0" fighters and turbojet engines and weapons .....
2. China mastered the J-11 and made the J10 with the same Al31 - This is the basis of the Chinese Air Force now. Among the new products we see the J-20 with the Al-31 and the J-31 with the RD 33 (93), both multifunctional fighters. In my opinion, we will see the successor of J-10.

[venik]

Quote: Zaurbek

Why is PakFA not an example for you? Development from "0" fighters and turbojet engines and weapons .....

=======
I repeat once again: ARE YOU EXACTLY SURE that the development of "PAK-DP" will be exactly from "0"? I personally - no, not sure .... Maybe - with "0", but maybe not ...

Quote: Zaurbek

China mastered the J-11 and made the J10 with the same Al31 - This is the backbone of the Chinese Air Force now. From new products we see J-20 with Al-31 and J-31 with RD 33 (93), both multifunctional fighters

========
And then there are JH-7, JF-17 (not newbies, but also not complete old ones), projects of long-range bombers (they are being developed, at least by giving (!), Variants of stealth fighters based on J10 and others .......
So, in terms of development promising projects - oo-oo-oo-oo: China is "ahead of the whole planet"! But what of this will go into the series - "we'll see and we'll see"! But they develop - a lot of things!
Yes, and the Yankes are in service 3 type of long-range bombers, 1 type of attack aircraft and 5 types of multirole fighters. At the same time, as for the latter, they are armed with several modifications at once, some differ from each other, like a bolt from a finger (that is, even stronger than the Su-27 and Su-35) !!!

[Zaurbek]

Of the modern ones in production in China - J10,11,20 ..... FT17- in service with Pakistan. All.

The Yankers walk towards one F-35. But I think, with an eye on the Su57, they will do something to replace the F22.
There are also three bombers in Russia, but this is because of hopelessness. Nothing was produced and flew on what the USSR left.

[The eye of the crying]

Quote: Zaurbek

Yankers go to one F-35

Do not go.

Quote: Zaurbek

But I think, with an eye on the Su57, they will do something to replace the F22.

NGAD, according to published information, will be a family of machines. Possibly modular.

[Zaurbek]

Of course they don't. Just look at the number of

[Maks1995]

In general - New details of the PAK DP project - it is. and it will not be a modernization of the previous platform, as was recently the case with the amers.

Earlier there were doubts that he exists at all.

[Knell wardenheart]

Considering the deployment of the PAK FA in a small series and improvements on it, taking into account the development of the PAK DA and the modernization of Tushek, the development of the "Hunter", etc. - it seems to me that "the beginning of development work" on the subject of the PAK DP is nothing more than a loud clapping. In 8-10 years, at best, we will see the harvest of this program.

[fa2998]

Quote: venik

There is common - only "PAK" and no more ...

Something we have, recently a lot of PAKs have appeared. They have not yet managed with the PAK FA, there is no new engine. There is a bomber, a transport aircraft and an interceptor. Along with the updated Tu-160, hypersound and other updates. There is also a T-14 tank. with the "family", lasers, Poseidons, Daggers and the navel fleet will not be untied? Like a crisis in the country. Maybe some priorities. Or everyone wants to make money.

[nikolai55soot]

It is almost impossible to keep secrecy, he offered a lot of things to the President, the Government and the Ministry of Defense of Russia - all do not answer (I think he is going west) and I was intuitively convinced of this; that's why I openly write my ideas - inventions on websites. Today, in peacetime, it is necessary to use the military (in study, in training) and fly at a super-hypersonic speed of 10 thousand km / h (2-3 space speed with a jump into Space) at an altitude of 100 meters and up to 20 thousand meters and more, above high-voltage power lines (3-4 routes of 1150 kV across Russia), by a laser beam or "PAK DP", the microwave antenna itself is in a Faraday cage, with super-powerful high-speed high-voltage electric motors (a hybrid that burns atmospheric air and saves fuel for battle) from 20000 kW. (kVA) and more, which uses missiles and, if necessary, combat lasers.

[yehat2]

without a developed target designation data exchange system, the entire project is meaningless.
the interceptor should become a full-fledged part of the entire air defense system.
In addition, there is a question of the specifics of work in the east of the country, where air patrols are carried out to cover undiscovered areas at a great distance.
It seems to me that using heavy interceptors for such tasks is a big waste and a low-speed, economical and inexpensive light AWACS aircraft is needed in addition to replacing the mig-31.
the Americans have an analogue - hockey. The USSR planned to produce such, but never launched.
I just want to say that making a new version of the mig-31 without a slow patrol partner will not be a very good decision.

[lopvlad]

New details of the PAK DP project

So where are these same details, because the article contains nothing except the name MIG-41, which has been known for more than several years?

[Pavel57]

Quote: Ka-52

The SR-71 generally has a maximum aspect ratio wing. Tk is a scout and his task is in flight for as long as possible. Such wings are designed to reduce parasitic drag.

The SR-71, like the CIA's shny A-11, grew out of the F-12 interceptor.

[AC130 Gunship]

Until the moment when the USSR showed the MiG-31, miracles were told about it. the Americans even made a film. It turned out - just an improved version of the 25th. New engines, avionics and 2 pilots. Let's hope that product 41 will not turn out to be some kind of MiG-31M5-CM12-EPRST in reality

[AC130 Gunship]

The last fundamentally new production car released by Mig was the 29th at the end of the 70s. Those. about 45 years ago. Then there was 1.44, which, as you know, was developed as a technology demonstrator and did not go into production. Then Poghosyan came and crushed the last brains on Miga. There are people of pre-retirement age left. Who is there and what can create, if for the last 40 years they have only been improving the existing types of aircraft?

[Eug]

As for me, you need to create "two in one" (like the MiG-25 in the PD and RB modifications) - a long-range interceptor and a naval missile carrier. In terms of dimensions - "larger" the MiG-31, somewhere like the Tu-128 was.

[shinobi]

Fortune telling on the media. You can speculate endlessly.

[kytx]

in short: we know that we know nothing.
that's all.

[Eug]

Interestingly, the task of ensuring the possibility of a long watch in the air will be set for the developers? Otherwise, how to attack the carrier before it launches weapons of destruction? Or then KR
shoot one by one?