Military Review

Problems with UAV "Bayraktar": Erdogan criticizes NATO countries for refusing to supply components

118

The Turkish President called his NATO allies "bad neighbors". Recep Tayyip Erdogan criticizes NATO countries for refusing to supply components for Turkish Bayraktar unmanned aerial vehicles, including video cameras.


The Turkish newspaper Duvar reported this on Saturday.

Despite all the smear campaigns, our aircrafts are admired all over the world. Turkish armed drones are changing the way war is waged, changing the course of hostilities in Libya and beyond

- Erdogan said at a ceremony in honor of the new Turkish frigate.

But now Turkey has problems with the Bayraktar UAV due to the termination of supplies of components by Western countries. Speaking of NATO allies as "bad neighbors", Erdogan noted that it was their refusal to supply parts, in particular, drone cameras, that forced Ankara to produce more components domestically.

We need cameras, but they don't give them. Are we not together with NATO?

- the Turkish president is indignant.

The refusal of a number of Western companies to supply spare parts for the Bayraktar UAV is caused by the fact that Turkey transferred these devices to Azerbaijan, which successfully used them against Armenia in the war for Nagorno-Karabakh. In addition, Turkish drones were actively used in Syria and Libya.

Now the production of UAVs in Turkey, which largely depends on foreign components, is experiencing serious problems.
Photos used:
https://twitter.com/baykar_savunma
118 comments
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  1. Victor_B
    Victor_B 25 January 2021 09: 20
    +12
    Recep Tayyip Erdogan criticizes NATO countries for refusing to supply components for Turkish Bayraktar unmanned aerial vehicles, including video cameras.

    Import substitution must be done on time!
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 09: 45
      +18
      so the Turks and their sympathizers wrote that the Turks themselves will do everything easily and that there are no problems to make either cameras or engines.
      I asked them - what equipment will you use to make the camera? What optical manufacturers do you have? and the engines are not so easy to make as it seems. but there they beat themselves with the heel in the chest that everyone would do.
      and what? done ?
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 25 January 2021 09: 49
        -4
        They will do it. Where will they go?
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 25 January 2021 09: 50
          +12
          yes, kakly won, too, have not gone anywhere An-178 is released in hundreds.
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 25 January 2021 09: 51
            0
            And without kaklov in any way?
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 25 January 2021 09: 52
              +2
              why without them?
              They, too, beat themselves with a heel in the chest, and what?
              1. Pereira
                Pereira 25 January 2021 09: 59
                -8
                Well, you compared ... a finger to a finger.
                Or do you seriously think that Turkey's development is at the level of Ukraine?
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 02
                  +6
                  yes, the bottom is there and there.
                  the kaklov still had a Ray and a couple of KB. but even they cannot do anything new, they rape the Soviet past.
                  so two dead men are quite comparable.
                  1. Pereira
                    Pereira 25 January 2021 10: 40
                    +2
                    Are you confusing anything?
                    Ukraine 30 years ago had a lot of things and it is all about ... la.
                    And what about ... Turkey in 30 years? What has she lost over the years?
                    Which industries have died in Turkey?
                    1. Dodikson
                      Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 47
                      +2
                      Turkey has not passed, Turkey simply cannot create anything of its own.
                      at least 30 years, at least 100.
                      yes, they can pay Western companies to come and build everything for them, but then what? and then again the purchase of technology, screwdriver assembly and a lot of bragging rights.
                      1. Pereira
                        Pereira 25 January 2021 11: 11
                        -3
                        However, they did.
                        They boasted and gave the result.
                        We boast, but there is no result.
                      2. Dodikson
                        Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 17
                        +7
                        lol Do you really think that making the Su-35 is much easier than building a bayraktar from other people's components?
                        By the way, how much worse do you think our UAV Hunter is than Bayraktar?
                      3. Pereira
                        Pereira 25 January 2021 11: 47
                        +1
                        No. I'm talking about something else. The fact that the Turks have made a giant leap in all directions in 30 years. And you compare them with the Ukrainians.
                        How did the discussion begin? Remember? From what you mentioned in vain when discussing Turkish drones at home. So I’m wondering what criteria do you use to evaluate them?
                      4. Dodikson
                        Dodikson 25 January 2021 12: 12
                        -2
                        what leap did they make?
                        learned to work with a screwdriver?
                        the real breakthrough was made by the Chinese.
                        but they made this leap only as long as the Americans allowed it.
                        and then Trump came and a bunch of spheres stalled and there is no more jerk
                2. Anar
                  Anar 25 January 2021 12: 23
                  -1
                  Quote: Dodikson
                  Turkey has not passed, Turkey simply cannot create anything of its own.
                  at least 30 years, at least 100.
                  yes, they can pay Western companies to come and build everything for them, but then what? and then again the purchase of technology, screwdriver assembly and a lot of bragging rights.



                  I see you are a strong Turkologist and industrialist ...
                  I will tell you for your information Turkey is in the G20. And these are the countries with the leading economies in the world. So they create and create and grow and sell ...
                  And most importantly, they do it all with their own hands and do not pull the bowels of the earth .... In addition, Turkey is simultaneously the world leader in humanitarian aid and at the same time one of the world leaders in the conduct of hostilities.
                  And they have enough money for all this.
                  By the way, do not humiliate and underestimate others. Personally, you are not the smartest in this world ... And with such statements, there is doubt about the presence of at least some kind of intelligence ...
                3. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 25 January 2021 12: 36
                  -1
                  in in, grown and sold.
                4. Anar
                  Anar 25 January 2021 12: 46
                  -7
                  And on the other hand, what Turkey can buy can be bought by many countries, but few can think of all this to combine into a single machine. The same Canada or Germany .... create important parts, but it is not enough to use them in this mainstream.
                  At the moment, Israel and Turkey dictate world rules for waging war using drones. So far, no one has such experience and such a refined strategy. The whole world is discussing Bayraktars, according to the rating they have become the most studied drones 2019-2020. Simple, in comparison with Western models, not expensive, ammunition due to guidance and correct aerodynamics is accurate and also not expensive. The only difference between Turkey and Israel is that Israel prefers disposable drones, while Turkey prefers reusable drones. But both countries are well ahead of the whole world in this industry.
                  Although they are technologically lagging behind the United States, they successfully apply for that.
                  And the main thing here is now a feeling of envy ... Suppliers say it's not like Turkey has gone so far and we are marking time, let's pull it back to us. Neher to rise above us ...
                5. Thrifty
                  Thrifty 25 January 2021 13: 34
                  +4
                  Anar - your UAVs have already massively crashed in Syria, remember? Integrated air defense easily multiplies by zero even beytractors, even more expensive Apki or American Ubplas. Therefore, the Yankees did not use their ubplas where there is more or less normal air defense. ..
                6. Anar
                  Anar 25 January 2021 13: 56
                  0
                  Everything can fall, even Fki and Drying. Anything that tries to destroy can itself be destroyed. Even on the ground, the shaft is jammed ...
                  The difference is in the rate of usefulness. At the moment, UAVs in total do more damage, so they give losses to their budget. And this is still a new type of weapon. With the development of this have grown, they will be cheaper and cheaper. At the moment, although they are involved in military affairs, in fact they are all prototypes of future weapons.
  • alexmach
    alexmach 25 January 2021 10: 31
    -5
    They, too, beat themselves with a heel in the chest, and what?

    L. - logic.
    So in Russia, they beat themselves with a heel to the chest about import substitution. And what?
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 34
      +3
      we substitute for impotence. GTU went to their turntables and ships.
      and this is not a motor to rivet an aircraft model.
      and the rest, even in the fact that it has not yet been replaced, there is a chance that it will work out. the Turks and kaklov have no such chances. at all .
      Shl they can buy on the side, but they can no longer do it themselves.
      let's see what they do to Anki themselves. but there are doubts, because they have nothing to physically do with electronics. They do not have their own optics either, and it is not so easy to do it, lenses for such cameras are not to cut out lenses on glasses. they can produce motors under license.
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 25 January 2021 10: 37
        +2
        the Turks and kaklov have no such chances. at all .

        Well, yes, especially in the more industrialized Turkey.
        let's see what they do to Anki themselves

        Evil tongues say that they have already done it for a long time .. but look, look.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 40
          +4
          I generally follow their "successes" and see that they don't know how to do a damn thing. for something more difficult than baklava is already unattainable for them.
          their tank Altai is a castrated Black Panther of Koreans. the same theme with ACS. their Firtina is a Thunder (Thunder) castrate, their turntable is a European Mongoose, their anti-ship missiles and MANPADS are Harpoon and Stinger. Their air defense systems are also based on Stinger and, in fact, an Avenger's clone, although there was still some kind of MD air defense system, but I don't remember it anymore, but more than sure that it is also a clone of something alien.
          if you think that this is a success of the Turkish industry, then I am starting to be proud of our auto industry, because Russian BMWs, Fords and other brands of Russian cars are very modern and high-quality cars.
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 25 January 2021 10: 43
            +1
            but more than sure that it is also a clone of something alien.
            if you think this is the success of the Turkish industry

            Damn it, I think. By what logic is it that a Chinese clone of a stinger or an AK is good and success, and a Turkish clone, mind you of a high-tech product, is bad?
            then I start to be proud of our auto industry

            SKD was compared to weapons production.
          2. Dodikson
            Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 22
            0
            But where did I write that the AK clone or the Chinese stinger clone is good?
            but the Chinese have one advantage - they make the kit for their clones themselves, and the Turks buy it. and they themselves only collect with a screwdriver.
            You can write a lot about their successes, but there is always a question - where do they produce it? because recently they argued about the connection from Rocketsana - the opponent stopped answering after the question "where are the microcircuits for these radio stations made?"
            Although we do not have euv 7nm in electronics, we release our own mikruhi, and even processors. the Turks don't even have the old one.
          3. alexmach
            alexmach 25 January 2021 11: 32
            +1
            "Where are the microcircuits for these radio stations made?"

            And where are the mikruhi for Russian radio stations made?
            Although we do not have euv 7nm in electronics, we release our own mikruhi, and even processors

            And is the quantity and range of products produced enough for all military-industrial complex products? do not rush, Russia imports the element base in the same way.
            Turks don't even have that old

            I’m not entirely sure of this. But I cannot say for sure.
          4. Dodikson
            Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 44
            +1
            Once again - we release mikruhi according to the old technical process at our place. radio stations are not smartphones with a powerful processor and video card. Moreover, the old, which means thicker technical processes are more resistant to EMP, and for military EMP this is not a fantasy, unlike smartphones.
            and I am aware that Russia also imports the element base, but only the one that is thinner than 65nm.
            the Turks imports EVERYTHING.
      2. Dodikson
        Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 28
        -2
        and what kind of weapons do the Turks produce?
        Or do you think that they themselves produce their helicopters and self-propelled guns and not SKD?
      3. Xenofont
        Xenofont 25 January 2021 12: 58
        +1
        They make a lot of tracked and wheeled BM, but marketing exclusively to countries such as Indonesia or Qatar.
      4. Dodikson
        Dodikson 25 January 2021 21: 01
        -1
        Are the engines and weapons also Turkish?
        otherwise they even bought armor for the cordon.
  • Xenofont
    Xenofont 25 January 2021 12: 56
    0
    I largely agree with you, but you are very mistaken about the quality of the Russian assembly of well-known brands, because even partial localization of the production of spare parts significantly reduces the quality of the final product. Savings, sir!
  • Dart
    Dart 25 January 2021 12: 30
    +2
    matrices for cameras are produced by a few companies .. as far as I remember, there are no domestic ones ... and what can I say about the Turks.
  • g1v2
    g1v2 25 January 2021 10: 02
    +1
    In fact, they will. There are not such mega-technologies in modern times. While the missing will be bought in China or elsewhere. In principle, we can also sell them something. The client is good, he paid for 400, we can start producing parts and components for Bayraktar at our place. Again, we still need to deploy the production of components for the Orions and Altair. If we supply some of these components for export, then the cost of their production for ourselves will decrease.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 05
      -2
      make and buy in China these are generally different things.
      1. Pereira
        Pereira 25 January 2021 10: 42
        +1
        The Armenians would not have felt this difference.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 23
          -1
          The Armenians would not have felt it even from the quadcopters with Ali.
      2. g1v2
        g1v2 25 January 2021 11: 22
        +4
        First they buy - then they make their own. request The product is there. This means that they first organize the assembly of units at home, then gradually they will begin to substitute import components. Nothing ever happens right away - this is a process for years. We ourselves are following this path. For the 14th year, we only had to substitute 826 Ukrainian items for import. We are gradually changing. Something has already been imported, such as engines for mi8, mi28, etc., something else is not yet - such as engines for mi26. But the process is going in one direction and it means that every year there will be less and less import substitution. The Turks have a smaller military industrial complex and most likely they cannot do without imports, but they can replace the main thing.
  • donavi49
    donavi49 25 January 2021 10: 29
    +4
    So they did it. But the old model is cheaper.


    On engines, I will repeat everything very cleverly. They chose the most massive engine in the world that even Aliexpress has. It is simply impossible to ban it physically. By the way, the Kronstadt group uses, for example, it also uses Rotax (albeit a little more powerful than 914) and spits on the sanctions, already collecting its MALE UAVs in series. wink
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 35
      -4
      own cameras or motors?
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 25 January 2021 10: 44
        +10
        Cameras and optics. By the way, they are already making lenses for ordinary sights-devices in Kazakhstan laughing .




        They have their own PD-170 engines. But for TV2 it is redundant. A new TV3 model with improved characteristics is made for it.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 25
          -5
          for conventional scopes / devices is it for what? infantry?
  • alexmach
    alexmach 25 January 2021 10: 29
    0
    how the Turks and their sympathizers wrote that the Turks themselves would easily do everything

    So Erdogan also said about this above ...
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 35
      -2
      Well, to say that he can. but to do ...
  • nsm1
    nsm1 25 January 2021 10: 38
    +2
    It's no problem to buy video cameras in China.
    And the problem, PMSM, is that "Bayraktar" is already an old development and components were chosen even when it was not the same in China as it is now.
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 44
      -2
      darkness ...
      learn materiel already.
      UAVs have cameras not from phones for 5 thousand rubles.
      there, judging by Karabakh, detection is already underway at 40 km, this is a complex optics. and you can't buy it in any of Uncle Liao's shop, there is not so much of it (high-quality optics) even from the Chinese
      1. nsm1
        nsm1 25 January 2021 10: 48
        +3
        Yes, I know it all!
        Besides the uncles, there are a lot of businesses with exceptional quality (and price).
        Found an accelerometer somehow, great, but $ 5500
        Far from optics, but hardly a lag in it ...
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 52
          -1
          in order not to write for a long time in general - lenses operating at 10 km are no longer a mass product, although not very complicated and there are not so few companies making them, but this range is not suitable for expensive UAVs, where it is desirable to work at 20 km. here the choice decreases to 5-7 companies all over the world (the Chinese also have a sea of ​​products from a bunch of manufacturers, but they buy the lenses themselves from the same 5-7 manufacturers), but at 40 km there are about 5 pieces already. and if they did not lie, that is, even the Russian one, the one that is included in the Shvab. so we have a problem with cameras only with electronics, but if DSP from Elvis will be done with us. then perhaps the cameras themselves will also be collected from us. and with optics no worse than European.
          1. nsm1
            nsm1 25 January 2021 10: 56
            +1
            Where does the infa about Elvis come from?
            I'm glad of course, but I would like to know more.
            1. Dodikson
              Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 59
              -1
              about Elvis infa is not the newest but the guys work wonderfully, like MCST.
              the problem is only in production. so far, everything is new only at TSMC in Taiwan, we have only old technical processes.
              as well as in DSP they made good progress, in some parameters they even overtook Western ones (image processing) and in processors. 8 MCST nuclear engineers are already overtaking Intel in their architecture. 16 nuclear engineers should start producing soon, and plans include 32 and 64 cores.
              and if the plans do not fail, then perhaps they will be released here.
              1. nsm1
                nsm1 25 January 2021 11: 05
                +1
                I'm not talking about that ...
                In general, then in the course, I wonder what they put on the bayraktars
                And Elbrus overtakes only on some tasks, in linpack they lag behind
                But maybe I missed something already ...
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 25 January 2021 11: 24
                  -1
                  in linpak they just do not lag behind. they have more than 8 gflops on 500 cores.
                  The 9900k was just approaching it.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
              2. ironic
                ironic 25 January 2021 13: 29
                +2
                Yes, yes, already the 28 nm moral old woman, cut from the third side, has overtaken the 10nm Intel and 7nm AMD. At least you don't disgrace yourself. And if "the plans do not fail," then I will produce "at home" at the price of a flight into space, but there are always pension funds in stock ...
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 25 January 2021 20: 57
                  -1
                  Monsieur doesn't know the hardware so much that he doesn't know the difference in architectures?
                  Like it or not, Elbrus for 8 boilers produces more than 500gflops. and you can even get yourself one more tattoo on the lower back, Elbrus will not work slower from this.
                  1. ironic
                    ironic 26 January 2021 12: 40
                    -1
                    Monsieur is the Head of Software at a cutting-edge startup with two degrees and 5 years of experience as an electronics engineer and 20 years of experience as a software engineer. Your 8C processor with a higher clock speed of 1.3 showed an advantage in an exceptionally small number of tests against the Kzeon of the younger series with a frequency of 1.7, and all winning tests were sharpened for writing, in the rest it lost crushingly, while it consumes 1.3 times as much as Kzeon does on 1.7. There is even nothing to compare with the older Kzeons from the word at all.
              3. Israel
                Israel 25 January 2021 15: 05
                0
                in some parameters they even outstripped Western ones (image processing) and in terms of processors. 8 MCST nuclear engineers are already overtaking Intel in their architecture. 16 nuclear engineers should start producing soon, and plans include 32 and 64 cores

                According to some possibly very artificial parameters, until MCST processors are released for widespread use and public benchmarks pass, it is difficult to say something. But in general, yes in Russia there is an opportunity, albeit using a very outdated technology, but to make microprocessors for military systems.

                the problem is only in production. so far, everything is new only at TSMC in Taiwan, we have only old technical processes.

                There are actually much more problems, the microprocessor is not one element on the board, there are also interface controllers, bridges, memory, various discrete components, etc., some of which are not only not produced, but not even designed in Russia, even on boards from MCST there were bourgeois controllers.
                1. Dodikson
                  Dodikson 25 January 2021 21: 03
                  -2
                  benches were already there. and there Elbrus proved to be excellent.
                  the only minus is that they are more expensive than analogues due to the small serial production, and vliw is still not very familiar to the civilian market. and broadcasting to x86_64 will still result in performance loss.
                  1. ironic
                    ironic 26 January 2021 12: 42
                    0
                    They showed themselves as morally obsolete for the current day and sharpened for the alphabet, that is, for sending commands, which means they were sharpening under the military, and trying to present them as a station wagon. The usual promo is where it does not work, the main thing is not to focus attention.
                  2. Israel
                    Israel 26 January 2021 15: 46
                    0
                    I may have missed it, but I don't want to see completely independent tests.
      2. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 25 January 2021 10: 48
        0
        Quote: Dodikson
        there, judging by Karabakh, detection is already underway at 40 km, this is a complex optics

        These cameras were mounted on an Israeli UAV.
        1. Dodikson
          Dodikson 25 January 2021 10: 49
          -3
          Israelis are the ones that the Bayraktars led.
          but there was a theme that Bayraktars can see at 40 km, and from 20 km they recognize equipment.
    2. Xenofont
      Xenofont 25 January 2021 13: 02
      0
      There is a slightly different level of technology that is not so easily distributed. Consumer goods will not work.
  • Anar
    Anar 25 January 2021 12: 09
    +1
    Quote: Dodikson
    and what? done ?

    Most likely, they did it if they spoke out harshly, and did not roll over to resume cooperation.
    In any case, the allies must be reproached so that all this is recorded in history. Sometime these reproaches will hide behind.
  • Israel
    Israel 25 January 2021 09: 57
    +1
    If only it were that easy. They can substitute engines for import, but the OLS is a completely different level.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 25 January 2021 10: 34
      +1
      And OLS evil tongues speak they have been producing for a long time ...
      1. Israel
        Israel 25 January 2021 11: 35
        +1
        In some form, of course, they can produce OLS, but they are significantly lagging behind the leaders, because Turkey needs a lot of import substitution, including the microelectronic industry.
    2. donavi49
      donavi49 25 January 2021 10: 38
      +8
      They originally had 2 concepts:
      TAI - they focused on other suppliers and tried to buy / cooperate with national producers as much as possible.

      Private traders - Bayraktar, Vestel. STM. By the way, they also use various components. If the engine is identical, then, for example, Vestel uses an optical station in his attack UAVs, like Kronstadt from the South African division of Airbus - Argos2.


      Turkey has created a family of optical stations for national UAVs - Anka, Aksugur - the problem is that they are heavier and more expensive, although they have their own advantages over Canadians.

      They have already been adapted for TV2.
  • no one
    no one 25 January 2021 10: 14
    +3
    And who said that they did not replace? They are already flying with new cameras. And soon with motors from Anka
    1. OgnennyiKotik
      OgnennyiKotik 25 January 2021 10: 43
      +1
      [/ quote] [quote = neden] And who said that they did not replace themselves?

      Replaced for a long time. Rumors about a new version of Bayraktar have been circulating since the beginning of 2020. The new version of TB2S with a Turkish engine, cameras, radar, etc. is already in serial production.


      Erdogan said at a ceremony in honor of the new Turkish frigate.

      They don't write anything about it. That is how they launched the first domestic frigate.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 25 January 2021 10: 55
        +4
        They don't write anything about it. That is how they launched the first domestic frigate.


        Well, here it, unlike the UAV, may well be turned into a suitcase without a handle. There is a very large percentage of foreign kit. Starting from the LM-2500 (okay, ZoryaMashproekt will replace it) and European marine diesel engines, ending with Smart-S - it can only be bought in China and it is copied from an early version, plus it is unclear what the real characteristics are.

        Descent with a low degree of saturation.

        1. OgnennyiKotik
          OgnennyiKotik 25 January 2021 11: 00
          0
          Quote: donavi49
          a large percentage of the set is foreign.

          We could have purchased it immediately, when bookmarked. And it will be under construction for another 2-3 years, the situation will change several times.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 25 January 2021 11: 17
    0
    And where are those members of the forum who shouted that Turkey is self-sufficient, and able to do all the components and assemblies for the ubpl on their own? ?? negative
  • keeper03
    keeper03 25 January 2021 13: 56
    0
    War is war, and tobacco apart! wassat
  • prior
    prior 25 January 2021 09: 29
    +3
    Even Erdogan is astounded by the unity in NATO.
    1. Alex777
      Alex777 25 January 2021 09: 58
      +3
      First, Erdogan's independence struck NATO.
      Now NATO is hitting Erdogan.
      Davutoglu has already agreed that the Sultan will soon have a second coup.
      Everyone worries that the first coup has not passed. It was made for him.
      The EU had already agreed on Davutoglu as a successor.
      To deserve it, he ordered to shoot down our plane. Dog.
      https://ria.ru/20210119/erdogan-1593659798.html
  • cniza
    cniza 25 January 2021 09: 33
    +4
    The Turkish President called his NATO allies "bad neighbors".


    So neighbors or allies? ...
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 25 January 2021 09: 44
      +5
      Hi soldier
      Nice situation, classic!
      Tell me who your friend is and ..... then everything is clear.
      You can only .... see how things go.
      1. cniza
        cniza 25 January 2021 09: 56
        +2
        Good time! hi

        Erdogan is very "fun" where and how to ride ... lol
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 25 January 2021 12: 06
          +2
          So the Sultan is no stranger to a scam from the other side .... maybe, maybe he will answer! Pulls, waiting for something, PREPARE!
          1. cniza
            cniza 25 January 2021 12: 34
            +2
            It looks like they'll move him or worse ...
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 25 January 2021 13: 04
              +1
              If he opens the "gateways", starts migrants, the gamerope will be sharply out of time!
              Only big brother doesn't care !!!
              Will bend his own.
              1. cniza
                cniza 25 January 2021 13: 05
                +2
                There are enough internal forces, well, the main interest is the USA ...
  • mojohed2012
    mojohed2012 25 January 2021 09: 41
    0
    When Uncle Sam is profitable - he gives components to the Sultan, when it is not profitable - he does not. And the sultan who had already believed in the "invincibility" of his army due to Western technologies and "the appearance of the restoration of the empire after Karabakh" (even the parade was held and the sultan was sitting there importantly), but he himself did not want to give Uncle Sam the S-400 or return them Russia with fanfare and cries that this air defense system is worse than the Patriot and other NATO hardware (which is good (such loyal cries and criticism of the Russian Federation) for the US economy and arms market). The Sultan, on the one hand, is great within the boundaries of the zones of influence, but on the other hand, he is powerless, because he does not have the leverage and resources to "show" his NATO friends that he is great and his own emperor.
  • rocket757
    rocket757 25 January 2021 09: 42
    +3
    Something needs to be invented by the Sultan .... ah, import substitution !!!
    1. Dodikson
      Dodikson 25 January 2021 09: 51
      -1
      What will they use to substitute import? who will sell the equipment to them?
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 25 January 2021 12: 03
        +1
        This is the question ... the second, the main thing is to proclaim!
    2. cniza
      cniza 25 January 2021 09: 57
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Something needs to be invented by the Sultan .... ah, import substitution !!!



      We've already heard this somewhere ...
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 25 January 2021 12: 04
        +1
        Once, again, many, many times!
        1. cniza
          cniza 25 January 2021 12: 31
          +1
          They will try to drive Erdogan into a stall, and if he resists, they will replace ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 25 January 2021 12: 57
            +1
            Various options are possible ..... wait and see.
            1. cniza
              cniza 25 January 2021 13: 02
              +2
              There are always options, the effect is different ...
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 25 January 2021 09: 53
    +2
    That is why we need to develop our own production, otherwise they listened to these idiots in short pants in the 90s.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 25 January 2021 09: 59
    +1
    And here they convinced me that Turkey can do everything by itself. But it turns out that without German, French and Anglo-Saxon "bolts" Bayraktar does not fly. Even an anecdote about a crow was remembered: What did you show off, but you can’t fly! So far, I flew!
    1. Quadro
      Quadro 25 January 2021 13: 09
      -1
      Yes, there are probably only Turkish landing gear. I remember here the picchu was thrown off - not a single critical unit was Turkish. All because of the hillock. Altai them stalled, and how the Turks sang strong.
      1. tralflot1832
        tralflot1832 25 January 2021 13: 46
        0
        Altai I did not cite as an example. For obvious reasons. A good diesel engine must be made for 10 years. I went to sea, Vyartsilya is the best. For tanks, we, the Germans and the Americans.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 25 January 2021 10: 09
    0
    Are we not together with NATO?
    Together when you need it NATO (USA). One of the American generals has already proposed to strengthen NATO in the Black Sea region and contain Russia to restore good relations with Turkey and forget about the S-400, start deliveries of F-35 ... To contain (war) Russia together, to resolve issues related to national security Turkey, and even contrary to the instructions of the United States separately.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 25 January 2021 10: 09
    +4
    I think the main problem is not the Armenians, but the competition with the main UAV sellers and the sale of such devices to customers to whom the West does not sell such systems.
  • Doccor18
    Doccor18 25 January 2021 10: 29
    +2
    Are we not together with NATO?

    yes together, but only where it is profitable ...
  • Cowbra
    Cowbra 25 January 2021 10: 42
    -4
    Dillemka at the mustache. Which is better - without air defense, but with drones, or with air defense, but without drones? The first is probably better. Moreover, drones are only suitable for chasing the air defense of the slaves of the State Department, for example, Pashinyans ... But in Niger, for example, it does not work ... Yesterday:

    And even the suspension is in place:

    About minus 20 lam in minke whales ...
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 25 January 2021 10: 51
      +8
      Well, they planted. On the contrary, they were rather saved there. For the government troops seem to have already reached the landing area.

      Well, what if it was not a UAV, but an F-15 strike? This is an operation to rescue 2 pilots, the loss of an even more expensive aircraft. UAVs are cheaper. wink And the public is not interested in his loss. soldier Therefore, in theory, everything is limited by the ability to launch as many UAVs as air defenses simply cannot shoot down. Next, break down all objects of the first order. Well, then see NKR. Losses, and even 100 UAVs per day, are not interesting to society. But if they lose at least 5 planes a day, then they can fly off the post. wink
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 25 January 2021 10: 53
        -3
        And if it was an F-15, it probably wouldn't be a drone? I will repeat. the value of drones is fucking exaggerated. judging by the fact that they are planted by the Iranians, with might and main under sanctions and, as the United States believes, without technology. then Niger. UAVs may be useful against the Kurds of Turkey, but their main problem is Greece. and there yours are no longer dancing.
        And letting in so many UAVs that you are tempted to knock it down is not an option. On this UAV, the projectile consumption is zero, you can land as much as you like. and each such - minus 20 lam. The enemy won't run out of electricity, but the budget
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 25 January 2021 11: 03
          +6
          Well, the F-15 and this UAV would perform the same task. Which in any case must be done. When there were no attack UAVs, ordinary planes with bombs flew there (not specifically in Niger, but in the zone of interests and targets for Uncle Sam). And we don't know the reason. Most likely technical - for example, the engine was chopped off. This is a technique - but it breaks down.
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 25 January 2021 11: 12
            -3
            Yes, most likely not. After the end of the buchi in Karabakh, a lot of interesting things become clear. Now they are already claiming that it was not the drones who danced there, but more than 800 combat sorties of the Su-25, 1 car was lost. Why so few? Here's why:

            ..and electronic warfare does not dance.

            ... and front-line air defense is out of business. And 20 lemons together is not worth it. The trouble is that the Su-25 and drones have fundamentally different payloads and vulnerability to electronic warfare - electronic warfare does not affect the pilot in any way
            1. ironic
              ironic 26 January 2021 12: 45
              +2
              And a lot of non-pilots shot down electronic warfare?

              Or maybe that's why they lost only one 25th, because the work was mainly done by drones?
      2. OgnennyiKotik
        OgnennyiKotik 25 January 2021 10: 56
        -1
        Quote: donavi49
        But if they lose at least 5 aircraft a day, then you can fly from the post.

        One is enough. But how much material for TV people. You can make films.


        And so the UAV fell, hit it and forgot it. No romance.
    2. ironic
      ironic 26 January 2021 12: 46
      +2
      Lost one aircraft? AND? Is that why he's not good for anything? This is to what degree of illiteracy is calculated?
      1. Cowbra
        Cowbra 26 January 2021 12: 59
        0
        Not lost, but presented, moreover, to a technically unequipped enemy. For this reason, the developed air defense with electronic warfare can gobble up an unlimited number of drones - their defense is at zero
        1. ironic
          ironic 26 January 2021 14: 46
          +1
          Why hasn't it eaten so far?
          1. Cowbra
            Cowbra 26 January 2021 16: 05
            -1
            So exactly what ate. I flew to the Iranians - and hello. Now even Niger is planting them. It remains to fly only where there are only slingshots from the air defense ... But there are many sawn with this program. Sorry no sense nifig
            1. ironic
              ironic 26 January 2021 16: 50
              +2
              An obvious breakdown has also flown in, but it is convenient to imagine this as a great Iranian victory. Funny for those who understand how the communication channel and the control program work.
              1. Cowbra
                Cowbra 26 January 2021 17: 02
                -2
                Explicit? And what was clearly expressed there? What is the breakdown that you so clearly identified? Obviously - this is that the litak sat down abnormally. And given the absence of visual damage - he was planted with electronic warfare equipment.
                Come on, untwist about the communication channel. I love bikes ... I remember that the tripods laughed for a long time at how the communication channel works, when the Iranians intercepted this channel with a half-kick from the newest and terribly secret stealth drone. So come on, tell us why they were laughing there so ...
                1. ironic
                  ironic 26 January 2021 17: 20
                  +2
                  It is impossible to plant it by means of electronic warfare, why are you repeating this stupid mantra. Theoretically, it can only be broken by a high-power electromagnetic pulse, which will shoot down the plane. Let’s show you a children's cartoon about the interception of a control channel, which must be decrypted for several days with all the processing facilities of Iran taken together. The drone will not have enough fuel for so long. Perhaps that's why he sat down. I was waiting for the decryption so that the Iranians would not be offended by refusal.
                  1. Cowbra
                    Cowbra 26 January 2021 18: 00
                    -2
                    Did I dream about that?

                    Enough to drive the blizzard, the United States officially acknowledged the loss due to interception by means of electronic warfare and for a long time whined "return the trick, scoundrels." It is only in your imagination that no one intercepts anything. This is a "clearly expressed" lie. Clearly planted
                    1. ironic
                      ironic 26 January 2021 18: 45
                      +2
                      Well, why are you driving this blizzard? Where is the recognition then? A certain Vadim Smirnov confessed to the United States? Do you know how many such video inserts have I programmed in my career? Vadim never dreamed so much. It’s good to lie twice, to lie about electronic warfare and to lie that I’m lying.
  • Gennady Fomkin
    Gennady Fomkin 25 January 2021 16: 21
    -1
    laughing Sultan Erdogan's favorite toy was taken away? laughing
  • sevryuk
    sevryuk 25 January 2021 19: 28
    0
    Quote: ironic
    And if "the plans do not fail," then I will produce "at home" at the price of a flight into space, but there are always pension funds in stock ...


    and Abramovich's yachts ...
  • amr
    amr 25 January 2021 20: 11
    0
    Quote: Dodikson
    lol Do you really think that making the Su-35 is much easier than building a bayraktar from other people's components?
    By the way, how much worse do you think our UAV Hunter is than Bayraktar?

    I missed something, but how much and what and where did our hunter shoot down ????
    .... well, or let's do it, how many hunters do we have in our arsenal ???
    ..... or even easier, and when our hunter is finally finished so that we can talk about him as a Turkish UAV
  • agoran
    agoran 25 January 2021 22: 26
    0
    Tex, gentlemen, let's start over.
    How many years have Turkey been promised to join the EU?
    Turkey was admitted to NATO only because of the Inzherlik base, where the minke whales deployed their nuclear weapons.
    Germany has reduced arms supplies to Turkey to a record 13%, you know about Canada too.
    This means that no one needs the strengthening of Turkey in this region.
  • Petro_tut
    Petro_tut 26 January 2021 21: 16
    0
    Turk was told - "place"