Military Review

Yamato. Heavyweight fight

188

The pride of the fleet is the minute of the turn



The diameter of the tactical circulation "Yamato" at a speed of 26 knots was 640 meters. Outstanding indicator. Even for a battleship.

Battleships were superior in maneuverability to ships of other classes. Yamato was considered the best. To turn at full speed, he had enough 600 meters of space in front of the heading (runout). And the diameter of the swivel "loop" was only 2,4 times the length of its body.

For comparison - "Littorio". It is customary for us to admire the creations of Genoese craftsmen for the carefully designed lines and good seaworthiness of Italian ships. But praise must be objective. The circulation diameter of the "Littorio" at full speed was 4 lengths of its body.

The situation with the French Richelieu was even worse. On the contrary, the "Americans" were distinguished by very good agility, with the exception of "South Dakota". Affected by the shape of their stern, powerful machines and the presence of two rudders installed in the propeller jets.

But no one managed to surpass Yamato.

Looking for competitors among cruisers and destroyers is doubly useless. The long-hull ships simply could not turn as sharply as the Yamato.

Yamato. Heavyweight fight

Agility depends on the ratio of dimensions and the shape of the contours. All other things being equal, the ship with the smallest elongation of the hull and the smallest draft (relative to its dimensions) will have the best agility.

The coefficient of overall completeness can tell a lot. A dimensionless parameter that gives an idea of ​​the sharpness of the contours and the shape of the underwater part. The ratio of the displacement and volume of a parallelepiped, whose sides are set by the length, width and draft of the ship. The higher the value, the better the agility.

Among all types of ships, battleships possessed the best set of the listed indicators. Good agility partly compensated for the size of the mastodons. Even in absolute terms, the circulation diameter of the battleships was smaller than that of the destroyers. And for the latter, the distance of 700-800 meters corresponded to 7 body lengths.

Further, the steering gears entered the struggle.

The steering of the Yamato was not perfect. Both rudders were located in the center plane, one behind the other. On the one hand, this arrangement reduced the likelihood of a simultaneous failure (hello to "Bismarck"!). On the other hand, the rudders were not installed in the propeller jets, which reduced their efficiency. The area of ​​the main and auxiliary rudders was 41 and 13 square meters. meters. Steering control of the same area was used on other battleships, significantly inferior in displacement to the Yamato.


The upper illustrations show a model of the battleship Yamato. At the bottom - the propeller-steering group of the LK "Missouri".

Undoubtedly, the "Japanese" had other ratios of transverse dimensions. But the difference in hull elongation was not as great as the achieved difference in displacement and maneuverability.

The reason for the great agility was hidden somewhere inside ...

Not like others


One of the mysteries of "Yamato" is related to his underestimation of the enemy. With numerous aerial photographs at their disposal, the Americans were never able to recognize that in front of them was the largest ship ever built.

263 meters in length did not indicate that the battleship had a total displacement of 72 tons.

The Italian Littorio with a displacement of 47 thousand tons had a hull length of 237 meters. The Richelieu, even smaller in displacement, was 247 meters. The German Bismarck was 250 meters. And the fast Iowa turned out to be seven meters longer than the Japanese heavyweight.

Perhaps it was the width of the case?

From a formal point of view, "Yamato" up to the present time remains the widest of the non-airborne warships. The midship width reached 38 meters. Great value, but ...

Other rivals were not far behind the record holder. The width of the Littorio and Richelieu hulls reached 33 meters. "Bismarck" with its 36 meters approached close to "Yamato".

Battleship ambitions of the United States immediately ran into the walls of the Panama Canal. Due to such an unfortunate circumstance, they could lengthen in the longitudinal direction, but never grew in width, frozen at around 33 meters.


Iowa crossing the Panama Canal, 2001

Such were all ships of the line of the later period. There was nothing clearly outstanding or suspicious about the Yamato's appearance. Its dimensions fit into the standard range for battleships.

It's time to dive below the waterline. What did the underwater part of the Yamato look like?

In terms of the depth of the sediment, the Yamato was not at all like an iceberg. Even at the stage of registration of its tactical and technical assignment, requirements were put forward for basing and operations in the coastal waters of numerous Pacific islands. For this reason, Yamato-class battleships have always had a relatively shallow draft (10 meters). Such a draft had European battleships, significantly inferior in displacement to the heroes of the Pacific theater of operations.

Where does 72 thousand tons come from?

"Yamato" had a greater overall coefficient of completeness than all of its peers. Fuller contours than other battleships. In other words, the bottom of the Yamato in width corresponded to its upper deck, and this situation was observed over a considerable length of its hull.

The large completeness of the contours gave a phenomenal result. This is how 70 thousand tons of displacement, 400 mm booking and an 18-inch main caliber appeared.

Three ships maneuvered


Where did Yamato get the ability to prescribe circulations?

Everything is logical here. Relatively short for this displacement hull with shallow draft with less sharp contours than rivals, gives a comprehensive explanation of the reasons for the good agility of the Yamato.

What did good agility mean when repelling air attacks or when dodging forward-facing torpedoes of that time? Probably not worth explaining.


Despite the obvious advantages, it would be premature to give the Yamato the highest mark for agility.

The Japanese heavyweight could evade fired torpedoes more agile than others, but then its advantages became unclear. A sharp maneuver led to a loss of speed, and it took a lot of time for the Yamato to regain it.

12 boilers and 4 turbines (GTZA) provided propeller shaft power of 153 liters. from. A power plant with such parameters could be considered extremely powerful by the standards of European fleets. But this was not enough for the giant Yamato.

Don't think that the Japanese were really bad. Even such "slow-moving ships" as the contract "Nelsons" with a power plant of 45 thousand liters were successfully used in combat operations. with.

But история knew other examples as well. Fast American "battle ships" built to counter Japanese line forces.

Nobody knows how fast Iowa got. But the two echelons of the power plant (dual power plant of conventional aircraft) did not just take up space. The directives of that period have survived, from which it is clear that Iowa gained speed almost three times faster than its predecessors. Acceleration from 15 to 27 knots in seven minutes. A quarter of a million horsepower is a parameter worthy of a nuclear aircraft carrier.

With such dynamics and a tactical circulation diameter of 2,8 hull lengths, the 57000-ton Iowa snatched the champion title from the Yamato's hefty clutches.

The Japanese project, it should be noted, was pretty outdated by the last year of the war.

If we exclude from consideration the "Iowa" and the very advanced battleships that entered service after the end of the war, then at the time of its appearance, the Yamato, without a doubt, was the strongest type of battleship.

Let's do without prolonged applause. But facts are stubborn things. Size mattered.

How many wolf do not feed, and the elephant more


It didn't take much to unleash Yamato's full potential. Sunny tropical day and a distance of ten nautical miles. Conditions for decisive battle with linear fleet USA.

The Japanese prepared very carefully for this meeting. Gathered a full arsenal of the necessary tools. The firing range, the power of 460 mm ammunition, a large deceleration of the fuses. The Yamato ammunition even provided for a special type of "diving" projectile to destroy ships in a weakly protected underwater unit.

The return volleys were to crash against the thick armor of the citadel. The limiting version of the “all or nothing” scheme chosen for the Yamato provided the best protection against rare but “evil” hits from long distances.

Good agility would be useful here.

But nothing was useful.

The battles took place in a wide variety of situations. Battleships of the United States and Japan met three times in battle, but the conditions never matched a duel in daylight. Throughout most of the war, the range of use of battleships, in general, was not limited to fighting their own kind.

Can the Yamato designers be blamed for creating a highly specialized project?

Before making such a conclusion, look again at the figure of 72. To spend such weight on solving a single problem was beyond the power of even Japanese perfectionists.

Interestingly, with such reserves, the Japanese continued to save weight, fighting for every ton of hull mass. Even visually, the Yamato has a noticeable upper deck deflection in the area of ​​the bow towers. And the same bend at the aft end. Such design refinements were made to reduce freeboard where possible. Another (purely Japanese technique) was hidden from prying eyes. The citadel's armor plates served as a load-bearing function and were included in the power set.


These measures only strengthened the already considerable combat capabilities.

And specialization in the "general battle" did not affect the other qualities of the Yamato.

There were enough reserves for everything


"Yamato" had not only the thickest booking, but also the shortest citadel among all ships of the line, occupying 54% of the length of its hull. The extremities (with the exception of the tiller compartments and sections of the upper deck) had no protection at all and could be pierced by any caliber.


At first glance - a crazy design. But what is obvious even to us was not a secret for the creators of Yamato. Why did they "frivolously" leave 46% of the hull unprotected?

First of all, because the Japanese project was not like any other battleship, with the exception of the Iowa. Hull "Yamato" had a "bottle" shape with a sharply tapering bow and scanty stern. In other words, the size and volume of the extremities was smaller than that of other battleships. And the main volumes of the corps were concentrated in the middle part, that is, under the protection of the walls of the citadel.


The Japanese made a calculation and obtained the following results: the unsinkability and stability of the Yamato can be ensured even if both ends are flooded.

The all-or-nothing scheme implied the absence of anything outside the citadel, on which combat effectiveness could critically depend. The gradual accumulation of damage with the loss of all posts and flooding of all compartments in the extremities would require a significant number of hits. With equal forces, it was considered unlikely to achieve such a result in battle. The Yamato could also fire back. And not cherry pits.

In practice, none of the warring parties considered firing landmines at the extremities as a combat technique, focusing on issues of breaking through the citadel.

Do not bore readers with a detailed description of the armor protection and its thickness. These numbers are present in any source. I will only note that the constructive defense of the Yamato included a couple of original elements that his peers had no idea about.

Air bombs and projectiles fired found it easier to penetrate the engine room, piercing the Yamato's main deck than through the mouth of its chimney. The chimneys were covered with a 380 mm thick perforated armor plate.

Another feature was the underwater armor belt for protection in case of close misses, when a diving "armor piercing" could hit the ship in the underwater part. The Japanese were the only ones who foresaw such a threat and developed protective measures against undershoots.

Resistance to underwater explosions


The underwater armor belt was part of the PTZ, but was not the basis for anti-torpedo protection. Battleships of the Yamato class possessed a full-fledged three-chamber PTZ 5 meters wide, in accordance with the highest standards adopted for the class of battleships. The hull of the battleships had a triple bottom throughout, with the exception of the engine and boiler rooms.

A fact from maritime history: the anti-torpedo protection has never ensured complete safety during underwater explosions near the side. As follows from the description of the damage, the compartments located near the place of impact were always damaged and filled with water. The task of PTZ was to minimize damage and prevent such egregious cases as the loss of the Barham aircraft.

The size of the ships themselves and their internal structure were of key importance in the case of torpedo hits. And the purpose of the measures for counter-flooding and drainage of the compartments was to straighten the resulting heel.

Theoretically, in order to sink a ship on an even keel, it is required to exhaust its displacement by 100%, that is, to "pour" tens of thousands of tons of water through the holes. With watertight compartments, this process can take forever. But if the roll gets out of control, the ship will die in a matter of minutes.

Battleships of the Yamato class had a double roll straightening system due to counter-flooding of compartments and fuel pumping. Its design capabilities allowed it to roll up to 14 degrees without affecting the ship's combat capability. The time standard is 5 minutes to take control of the roll and trim that arose when the first torpedo hit. 12 minutes were allotted to eliminate the consequences of the second hit.

Combat steampunk


The considerable width of the hull made it possible to place the engine and boiler rooms in four rows. The internal compartments of the MKO received reliable protection: 80 years ago there were no torpedoes with a proximity fuse, which were fired exactly under the keel.

In terms of the location of the MCO, only Iowa could compare with Yamato: its engine and boiler rooms were scattered along the hull, stretching as much as 100 meters. To deprive "Iowa" of the course, power supply and any ability to resist, it was necessary to "turn" almost half of the battleship.

The controversial decision of the Yamato project is the limited use of the electric drive. The Japanese feared cumbersome switchboards and short circuits, so they used auxiliary steam engines wherever possible. Reality showed that valves and steam lines were also vulnerable to shocks, and the stoppage of the boilers left the ship completely helpless.

On the other hand, only the complete destruction and flooding of the boiler rooms could stop the operation of all 12 boilers. When, probably, that's it. And the fury of the attacks to which the battleships have undergone in their last battle does not allow making accurate conclusions about the superiority or disadvantages of such a decision.

During the war years, battleships of the Allies and Axis countries were repeatedly exposed to mine and torpedo weapons... "Vittorio Veneto", "Maryland", "North Caroline", "Scharnhorst" and "Gneisenau", Japanese "Ise" ... As practice has shown, capital ships relatively easily tolerated the hits of 1–2 torpedoes.

"The consequences of strikes on ships built to the same security standards have had the same results."

The last fight between Yamato and Musashi gives no reason for comparisons. No other battleship has been shot like this. And no one could have survived with 10+ hits below the waterline.

One thing is certain: due to a larger displacement reserve and a more sophisticated design, the Yamato-class battleships could withstand more than all their peers.

The American pilots noted in their reports a noticeable decrease in the speed of the Musashi only after the sixth torpedo hit.

And the Shinano commander did not feel any threat after being hit by 4 torpedoes, continuing to steer the ship on the same course, without reducing speed. The denouement came six hours later. If the "Sinono" had been completed and had sealed bulkheads, it might have made it to the Kure naval base.

Those ships are long gone. But you can talk about their weapons next time.

And in conclusion, we recall the following words:

The best choice on a tight budget is Richelieu.

High-tech glamor - Vanguard and Iowa.

For a breakthrough at any cost - only Yamato!
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  1. rocket757
    rocket757 28 January 2021 18: 09
    +16
    Yes, there were giants of their time, but like everything else, their time is over ...
    1. Atlant-1164
      Atlant-1164 28 January 2021 19: 11
      +15
      “There are three unnecessary things in the world ... the Egyptian pyramids, the Great Wall of China and battleships of the Yamato class.
      - However, in the country of Yamato, a ship named after themselves is loved and honored
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. janeck
        janeck 28 January 2021 19: 27
        +36
        The battleship Yamato sleeps in the ocean, with the honor and glory of legend



        chrysanthemum nose decoration.
        1. Atlant-1164
          Atlant-1164 28 January 2021 19: 36
          +29
          the most deadly and invulnerable of all warships built at that time, performed a kind of ritual samurai seppuku, launching a suicidal attack on an American force off Okinawa. The ship, which was a symbol of the power of the Japanese fleet, on the construction of which enormous forces and resources were spent, turned out to be absolutely useless in that war, since the command was unable to competently dispose of its capabilities.
          1. Proxima
            Proxima 29 January 2021 14: 38
            +3
            Quote: Atlant-1164
            the most deadly and invulnerable of all warships built at that time, performed a kind of ritual samurai seppuku, launching a suicidal attack on an American force off Okinawa.

            What is most interesting, it was filled with fuel only one way! That is, no one expected his return. Indeed, a suicidal attack! belay A kind of the largest kamikaze object in history!
            1. Andrew Matseevsky
              Andrew Matseevsky 1 February 2021 01: 46
              0
              There was simply no fuel. He took all the leftovers. And the captain told the crew that they had a great opportunity to die for the emperor. Sadly, it was all completely pointless. The dead sailors could rebuild Japan after the war and use the battleship as metal.
              1. Split
                Split 2 February 2021 20: 04
                +1
                Yeah, especially after waving a pipiska over Hiroshima and Nagasaki ... 1 whose pilot admired all his life (cultural word), how he dropped a nuclear bomb on several hundred thousand people. Well, I think he has the biggest frying pan. It is strange that he was not included in the Guinness Book of Records as a record holder for the number of murders per hour
                1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 3 February 2021 00: 26
                -1
                Quote: Andrew Matseevsky
                There was simply no fuel. He took all the leftovers. And the captain told the crew that they had a great opportunity to die for the emperor. Sadly, it was all completely pointless. The dead sailors could rebuild Japan after the war and use the battleship as metal.

                But they did not cover themselves with shame, unlike the Kaiser's sailors in the First World War. After all, they also had the option to go on the last campaign, with the whole fleet and with the prospect of inflicting very heavy losses on the enemy. They instead cowardly succumbed to Jewish-Bolshevik agitation and betrayed their Emperor.
        2. Sevastiec
          Sevastiec 30 January 2021 05: 23
          0
          Did he earn a lot of honor and fame? I wonder what?
          1. Narak-zempo
            Narak-zempo 3 February 2021 00: 32
            -1
            Quote: Sevastiec
            Did he earn a lot of honor and fame? I wonder what?

            The samurai is honored by birth. Therefore, his task is to die without losing her.
            1. Sevastiec
              Sevastiec 8 February 2021 14: 25
              0
              Are we talking about the ship now?
              1. Narak-zempo
                Narak-zempo 8 February 2021 14: 49
                0
                Quote: Sevastiec
                Are we talking about the ship now?

                About the ship, yes.
                But the question "how much honor and glory" has earned this ship makes sense in the context of a certain ethical system.
                According to the samurai system, valor is not about "earning" honor, but about not dropping it. And with that, "Yamato" and its crew are all right.
                1. Sevastiec
                  Sevastiec 9 February 2021 06: 05
                  0
                  Oh well................................................ ..........................................
        3. Motorhead
          Motorhead 30 January 2021 14: 00
          +1
          There he belongs, let him rest.
      3. antivirus
        antivirus 28 January 2021 20: 34
        0
        how much metal was taken out of Korea! and from China?
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 3 February 2021 09: 26
            0
            yapi ................................................. ........... robbed colonies is the norm?
            1. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 3 February 2021 09: 28
              -1
              Quote: antivirus
              yapi ................................................. ........... robbed colonies is the norm?

              Those. for the British, French, Dutch and other allies - the norm, but the Japanese did not come out with a snout?
              1. antivirus
                antivirus 3 February 2021 09: 31
                0
                the robbery did not cease to be called by others. and from one to the other side and from the third side (s)
                1. Narak-zempo
                  Narak-zempo 3 February 2021 09: 36
                  -2
                  Quote: antivirus
                  the robbery did not cease to be called by others. and from one to the other side and from the third side (s)

                  Again, what if these thousands of tons of steel would have remained in the form of ore in Korea and China, or would have been used for pots and pots for local people, from which there would be NOTHING in history, and therefore existence is absolutely meaningless?
                  There is also the greatness of the plan, and the feat, and the tragedy, which left their mark on history. And even the fact that “Yamato” is remembered here over and over again shows that there was a point in it all.
                  And robbery or not - this is the tenth case. Nations are only a substratum, fertilizer, dung of History, on which great deeds grow.
                  1. antivirus
                    antivirus 3 February 2021 09: 39
                    0
                    peoples - it is of course "dung".
                    the Chinese have to say this. or will you say at the meeting yourself?
                    "Do not open your mouth on someone else's piece."
                    the hatred of the Chinese and Koreans has brought the Yap to the modern life they deserve.
                    1. Narak-zempo
                      Narak-zempo 3 February 2021 09: 42
                      0
                      Quote: antivirus
                      the hatred of the Chinese and Koreans has brought the Yaps to the modern life they deserve

                      You opened my eyes straight.
                      I thought that the carpet bombing of the Americans, 2 atomic gifts and a good kick from ours in Manchuria.
                      And then - the opening of American markets in order to feed an ally against us.
                      By the way, they live well. Better than many.
                    2. Terran ghost
                      Terran ghost 3 February 2021 10: 21
                      0
                      brought the Yaps to the modern life they deserve.

                      This is what kind of life? Modern Japan is a very prosperous country with a developed, high-tech industry and service sector.
      4. Kuroneko
        Kuroneko 29 January 2021 13: 33
        +1
        Quote: Atlant-1164
        However, in the country of Yamato, a ship named after themselves is loved and honored.

        Not only in Japan. Ask any person (and from any country) who is extremely far from the naval theme, which battleships he knows, he will definitely name Yamato.

        The model is fucking, by the way, but the price ...
    2. Civil
      Civil 28 January 2021 19: 37
      +1
      The film is a mediocre Japanese "Yamato", though it's hard to distinguish the characters ...
      1. Private SA
        Private SA 29 January 2021 10: 48
        0
        And I like this movie. And God forbid with this sea wolf driving
        a boat that has matured and is standing in the wheelhouse of the URO frigate of the Japan Self-Defense Forces
        to collide with someone. Otherwise, Tsushima will work out again.
    3. Yuri Shalnov
      Yuri Shalnov 2 February 2021 21: 38
      -1
      There are only floating cemeteries left - American aircraft carriers ...
  2. lucul
    lucul 28 January 2021 18: 35
    +7
    It was possible to place more air defense, sacrificing the angles of the main battery ...
    1. Constanty
      Constanty 28 January 2021 19: 30
      +6
      It is better to abandon the 155mm atillery, and replace the ineffective 25mm with the 40mm Bofors bought in time (or copy)
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 19: 57
        +10
        Quote: Constanty
        It is better to abandon the 155mm atillery, and replace the ineffective 25mm with the 40mm Bofors bought in time (or copy)

        Purely afterthought ... :)
        Look at the design air defense of the same "iows".
        1. Constanty
          Constanty 28 January 2021 20: 02
          +4
          Obviously, knowledge after the fact, but we must not forget that the Japanese themselves removed half of the 155-mm guns, so they chose the right direction.

          After the collapse of the Dutch East Indies, the Japanese had the opportunity to test the 40-mm Bofors and, according to some reports, got acquainted with the design of the stabilized positions of Hasemeyer's guns.
          1. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 20: 08
            +5
            Quote: Constanty
            After the collapse of the Dutch East Indies, the Japanese had the opportunity to test the 40-mm Bofors

            They captured them in Singapore.
            But reverse engineering was slow.
            1. Constanty
              Constanty 28 January 2021 20: 14
              0
              But even Poland bought Bofors before the war, and Japan probably knew, for example, the weapons of its future enemy - the Netherlands and De Ruyter.
            2. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 29 January 2021 02: 08
              +1
              Quote: Macsen_Wledig
              But reverse engineering was slow.

              So it was not the reverse engineering of the bofors from the Americans that was not easy.
              1. Macsen_wledig
                Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 11: 53
                +4
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                So it was not the reverse engineering of the bofors from the Americans that was not easy.

                He walked normally with them ...
                What the Americans are up against is production volumes.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 01: 35
                  0
                  Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                  He walked normally with them ...

                  It seems that we have already figured out when Bofors appeared on American ships, even in small numbers?
                  1. Macsen_wledig
                    Macsen_wledig 30 January 2021 10: 53
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    It seems that we have already figured out when Bofors appeared on American ships, even in small numbers?

                    Found out ...
                    Yet again. The question is in organizing mass production, and it was established by September 1942.
          2. smart ass
            smart ass 28 January 2021 21: 05
            +5
            It's not about the bofors, but about the air defense control system
            1. Constanty
              Constanty 28 January 2021 21: 10
              +3
              To a large extent, yes, but the greater the effective range (and therefore the lower angular velocity of the target) and the higher the explosive charge of the projectile, the lighter
              1. smart ass
                smart ass 28 January 2021 21: 21
                +3
                I read the book "The Pacific Premier", it said that by the end of the war the losses of Japanese naval aviation pilots exceeded the losses of the kamikaze. Due to the manifold increased efficiency of the state air defense system .. Radio fuses, radars, first computers, etc., etc., etc.
                1. Macsen_wledig
                  Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 21: 23
                  +3
                  Quote: Clever man
                  I read the book "The Pacific Premier", it said that by the end of the war the losses of Japanese naval aviation pilots exceeded the losses of the kamikaze.

                  The Sperm Whale has a very specific view of history, so it is better not to use his work as a reliable source ...
                2. Constanty
                  Constanty 28 January 2021 21: 24
                  +3
                  The disaster for the pilots was not so much Midway (most of the crews were saved there), as the battles for Guadalcanal - the color of the pilots of the Japanese fleet died there, and their training system was very ineffective.
                  1. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 29 January 2021 13: 52
                    0
                    After Midway, the carrier formations disappeared. Exactly how dense structures are.
                    1. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 29 January 2021 15: 55
                      +1
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      After Midway, the carrier formations disappeared. Exactly how dense structures are.

                      Moreover, on both sides - for a year, the sides fought in formations of 1-2 "large" ABs on each side. And then the American conveyor reached the finish stage - and one by one the Essexes went to Nimitz. For the Japanese, only Taiho was added to the pair of Cranes.

                      The Japanese aircraft carrier fleet disappeared as a fighting force after the Mariana turkey hunt. Before that, the survivor of 5 DAV still fought - "Hornet" is a witness.
                      1. EvilLion
                        EvilLion 1 February 2021 09: 10
                        0
                        1943 is considered a period of operational pause, after which the Americans simply went through the rink.
                3. Nikolay Akamsin
                  Nikolay Akamsin 2 February 2021 10: 51
                  0
                  What are the losses? In terms of sorties made, or in total? So the very fact of creating a kamikaze speaks of a very good effectiveness of the US air defense. (Since there is no other way to overcome the air defense barrier).
      2. Engineer
        Engineer 28 January 2021 20: 25
        +3
        If you really have an alternative, it is better not to have it at all. And to have an additional pair of "dragons" with the air group. Then at least there is a chance to drag the 42nd year.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 January 2021 02: 28
          +2
          Quote: Engineer
          And to have an additional pair of "dragons" with the air group. Then at least there is a chance to drag the 42nd year.

          Infernal aftermath. Considering that the Americans had 34 6K hulls approved for construction in the 35th, 36 KD37 were laid for the Ngalits at the beginning of the 5th, and the LKs are still considered the main force of the fleet, the idea of ​​building 5 superLKs that drove would Washingtonians pissing rags, was quite reasonable. According to the second London, the LC overage was announced for 5 years, so in 26 it was known that until the end of the treaty - 37, the Americans, except for Nevada and Pennsylvania, would not be able to replace their standards.

          True, then everything went a little not according to plan, but who knew that in 37?
          1. Engineer
            Engineer 29 January 2021 18: 56
            +1
            Infernal aftermath.

            Who was it stopping?
            Japanese gentlemen also need Lavrenty Pavlovich Watanabe. Only mass shootings of the army clique will save Japan. am
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 01: 45
              +1
              Quote: Engineer
              Who was it stopping?

              Progress is not considered comme il faut. I don’t push Yarnell to place CNO and don’t invent AUS in the mid-30s)))
              Quote: Engineer
              Lavrenty Pavlovich Watanabe is also needed.

              I will not give you Lavrenty Palycha. The Japanese will kill him right there, and he is a passion I need in America.

              I can't say what could help Japan. The most hellish tryndets, perhaps, of all the main participants in WWII. It is necessary to introduce some kind of shogunate (shogun Lavrenty Palycha), so that at least they stopped making air cannons of the same caliber, but with different cartridges.
              1. bk0010
                bk0010 30 January 2021 13: 38
                0
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                I can't say what could help Japan.
                Disable the Panama Canal (ensure the undermining of a battleship or heavy cruiser in the canal, blow up the locks to lower the canal lake) and land an army in several places on the Pacific coast of the states (right after Pearl Harbor is still possible), which would be fed from local resources ( without supplies from the islands) and would be engaged in the destruction of industry and infrastructure of the coast, launch a hunt for supply ships in the north and south. And even this might not have been enough for the states to ask for peace (the Atlantic coast is more developed, it could well "overcome").
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 14: 33
                  +2
                  Yes, I've seen this mink addiction in various combinations.
                  Quote: bk0010
                  ensure the undermining of a battleship or heavy cruiser in the canal, blow up the locks to lower the canal lake

                  Nagumo's forces cannot do this even close, the channel is better protected by the PX. With the direct intervention of aliens, the road from East to West is increased by 20 thousand km, this is 40 days with a 12-nodal passage and, accordingly, 3 weeks with a 20-nodal one. Solves nothing.
                  Quote: bk0010
                  land an army at several locations on the Pacific coast of states

                  I see you strongly dislike the Japanese. You are talking about America in December 41, with a million-strong army and the production of tanks under a thousand a month? Half average?
                  Quote: bk0010
                  Yes, and this might not be enough for the states to ask for peace (the Atlantic coast is more developed, it could well "overcome")

                  Two demonstrative suicides, one at the Canal, the other in California, will not be enough for sure. By the way, the American Pacific Fleet, compound Z and ABDA did not disappear anywhere while you were killing the Japanese in the Western Hemisphere.

                  But for Japan, the abolition of the southern blitzkrieg is quite enough, until the end of the 42nd it will hardly finish.
                  1. bk0010
                    bk0010 30 January 2021 15: 24
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Nagumo's forces can't do it even close
                    And the saboteurs?
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    the road from East to West increases by 20 thousand km, this is 40 days with 12 junction and, accordingly, 3 weeks with 20 junction does not solve anything.
                    Increasing the supply shoulder by 20 thousand km is a trifle (did you forget about the destroyed Pacific coast)? Oh well.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    You are talking about America in December 41, with a million-strong army and the production of tanks under a thousand a month?
                    Yes, about her. While she will transfer these troops and tanks, while the panic is extinguished, ports, shipyards, ship repair and aircraft building plants off the coast will be destroyed, the local population will be killed or eaten. We will have to devote colossal resources to rescue and recovery. And the death of the Japanese army will be more meaningful than on the islands under fire from heavy cruisers.
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    By the way, the American Pacific Fleet, compound Z and ABDA did not disappear anywhere while you were killing the Japanese in the Western Hemisphere.
                    Of course not gone, they drift and think "where would they refuel?".
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    But for Japan, the abolition of the southern blitzkrieg is quite enough, until the end of the 42nd it will hardly finish.
                    Blitzkrieg cannot be canceled, one does not really interfere with the other, the task is to delay the response and make the enemy fall into despondency.
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 16: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: bk0010
                      And the saboteurs?

                      It takes an explosives steamer to blow up the floodgates. The car is not enough. Saboteurs, yeah.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      Increasing the supply shoulder by 20 thousand km is a trifle

                      What are you supplying there? Have you already canceled the notorious Yellowstone volcano, along with the road?
                      Quote: bk0010
                      did not forget about the destroyed Pacific coast

                      Which did you destroy with one division? Two? Oh well.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      While she will transfer these troops and tanks

                      Some of them are already in place.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      ports, shipyards, ship repair and aircraft factories off the coast will be destroyed

                      Yeah, on trophy transport. This delirium begins to tire.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      the local population is killed or eaten.

                      The local population is armed without exception. Choke.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      the death of the Japanese army will be more meaningful than on the islands under fire from heavy cruisers.

                      Yes, a more meaningful plan is difficult to imagine.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      drifting and thinking "where to refuel?"

                      Where did Indonesia go?
                      Quote: bk0010
                      Blitzkrieg cannot be canceled, one does not interfere with the other

                      Barbarossa and Overlord at the same time? Come on, I don't interfere anymore.
                    2. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 1 February 2021 10: 34
                      0
                      Quote: bk0010
                      While she will transfer these troops and tanks, while the panic is extinguished, ports, shipyards, ship repair and aircraft building plants off the coast will be destroyed, the local population will be killed or eaten.

                      So there is no developed shipbuilding on the Pacific coast in 1941 - Kaiser and Co. are just developing. The USN "big pots" have a traditional biography: they were laid down on the Atlantic coast, handed over to the fleet, six months or a year in the Atlantic - and for maintenance.
                      Quote: bk0010
                      Of course not gone, they drift and think "where would they refuel?".

                      That is, the Japanese strike against Southeast Asia is not canceled? Otherwise, USN and RN have the second largest oil producing region (the Persian Gulf rose after the war).
                      1. bk0010
                        bk0010 1 February 2021 22: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        That is, the Japanese strike against Southeast Asia is not canceled?
                        Not. The idea was to deliver additional hemorrhoids to the US Navy with the help of the Japanese army. They threw it somewhere in an undefended place, and then she herself. Yes - for slaughter, but the Japanese were never embarrassed. And the main operation develops in the same way as before. The main idea of ​​the Japanese was to seize the islands, excluding them from the means of supplying the American fleet. This would make serious operations impossible, leaving only raids that the Japanese could endure. The Americans learned to supply directly from ships, the Japanese were doomed. And what would have happened if additional measures were taken to hinder supply - the question is: the war would have dragged on and maybe the Americans would have agreed to some kind of draw.
                      2. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 2 February 2021 10: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: bk0010
                        Not. The idea was to deliver additional hemorrhoids to the US Navy with the help of the Japanese army. They threw it somewhere in an undefended place, and then she herself.

                        The landing of one division on the "small" arm of Metropolis-Hawaii is forty transports and six to eight tankers. And according to your plan, you will have to drag this entire group even further. And this despite the fact that for operations in Southeast Asia the civilian fleet was already stripped to a minimum - the army and navy left the civilians (that is, their rear) only 25% of the minimum tonnage required for peacetime.
    2. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 29 January 2021 12: 45
      +1
      155-mm artillery is the only one valuable for combat with small naval targets. Japanese universal 127-mm twin - far from ice !. Air defense had to be formed on the basis of at least 10 paired 100-mm anti-aircraft guns and to design six-barreled 25-mm installations with power drives for dagger (anti-assault) fire. Three-gun 155-mm installations should have been delivered three pieces: aft - in its place, but with a consumable ammunition magazine in a barbet and with a gap in the feed. Two bow mounts - at the base of the second main turret - on the right and left (as in Vittorio Veneto). Consumable ammunition magazines in the barbet and with a gap in the feed. The main armor deck under the towers is solid.
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 29 January 2021 14: 11
        +2
        The American 127/38 on the battleships North Carolina, South Dakota or Iowa did not have the best parameters for countering surface targets, and yet the Americans did not deploy medium-caliber guns.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 29 January 2021 16: 09
          0
          Quote: Constanty
          The American 127/38 on the battleships North Carolina, South Dakota or Iowa did not have the best parameters for countering surface targets, and yet the Americans did not deploy medium-caliber guns.

          In the "Norki" 35 kt of standard displacement, it was necessary to shove three four-gun turrets with 14 "(at the last moment replaced by three-gun turrets with 16"), an 11 "armor belt and a power plant to give the LK speed of at least 27 knots. SK: 6 "towers will not fit into the limited displacement by weight, and it makes no sense to set standard for LC 127/51 with 127/38 already included in the project.
          Sodak was also designed for the 35-kt standard.
          As for Iowa, after ordering 52 (fifty-two) KRL type Cleveland, who needs SK artillery on the LK? smile
          1. Constanty
            Constanty 29 January 2021 16: 48
            0
            Who needs SC artillery on the Yamato LK? Aside from a suicide mission in Okinawa, the ship was not meant to be operated alone in a squadron where someone else was doing the "little things." The main guns were supposed to be the royal argument against other LKs.
          2. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 02: 08
            +1
            Quote: Alexey RA
            As for Iowa, after ordering 52 (fifty-two) KRL type Cleveland, who needs SK artillery on the LK?

            Let go of the owl.

            Iowa and Cleaves are growing out of Act 38. There were supposed to be only 68 thousand tons of cruisers, and these are atalants, the second London is operating. The appearance of the American Ceylon Cleveland (Brooklyn with the exchange of the main battery for air defense) is already an improvisation, superimposed on the Two-Ocean Navy Act and military programs. But at the time of the Two-Ocean Navy, Iowa was not only already designed, but also laid down.

            The Americans did not consider the 6 "anti-mine caliber to be of principle. Accidentally or not, but they did not have to regret it.
  3. smart ass
    smart ass 28 January 2021 21: 04
    +4
    Would you like to shoot planes near the battleship's main caliber?
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 21: 10
      -1
      If the SUAO allowed anti-aircraft barrage fire, then why not?
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 28 January 2021 21: 29
        +4
        Not really - the force of the explosion of the 460-mm guns was so great that the personnel from open positions had to go deep into the hull. Therefore, both 127 and 25 mm parts had covers.
        In his momography, Skulski cited the pressure values ​​for salvos of 460-mm guns - space!
      2. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 29 January 2021 12: 49
        0
        In principle, with a reliable radar fuse, the battleship's main caliber at distances from 10 to 25 km ensures the defeat of a dense group target at the level of URO cruisers of the 80s of the twentieth century.
    2. Constanty
      Constanty 28 January 2021 21: 17
      +1
      Rather, it was a pair of "Shokaku" and "Zuikaku" together with aircraft protecting battleships from enemy aircraft.

      And Yamato and Musashi also had anti-aircraft shells for
      guns for 460 mm guns
  4. Scharnhorst
    Scharnhorst 29 January 2021 16: 12
    0
    In no case should you touch the main caliber. There was no need to bend the common sense of the air defense of the original project towards the samurai spirit of cross-eyed gunners. Since the number of 127-mm barrels has doubled (from 12 to 24), why did they skew 25-mm from 24 barrels to an unimaginable 156! This is more than 6 times! Moreover, the experience and lessons of the war on maintenance have already spoken about the weakness of 25-mm anti-aircraft weapons. Since we did not manage to produce anything in an average caliber (37-76 mm), it would be better to proportionally increase the capabilities to 18 * 2 - 127 mm / 40 and 32 * 3 -25 mm / 60. Well, the ballistics of guns during the war could have been improved, as all countries did.
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 16: 20
      0
      Quote: Scharnhorst
      it would be better to proportionally increase the capabilities to 18 * 2 - 127 mm / 40 and 32 * 3 -25 mm / 60. Well, the ballistics of guns during the war could have been improved, as all countries did.

      Can you see the blueprint for the Yamato with all this wunderwaffe placed?
      1. Scharnhorst
        Scharnhorst 7 February 2021 12: 17
        0
        With the huge size of the ship, I chose the most clear and contrasting drawing, highlighted 25-mm triplets in red and 127-mm twin pairs in blue, cut off the non-informative bow. But even in pixel resolution I could not figure out the vertical placement of the guns on the superstructure in the side projection. In the top view, the left side was left in its original (real) form, the starboard side was reworked at your request.

        Of the fifty 25-mm firing points, six easily changed to 127-mm and turned out even better than expected in the comments from 29.01.21/126/25: 36 127-mm barrels and XNUMX XNUMX-mm barrels.
        Afterthought, of course, is not a grateful thing, but here's another thing I paid attention to while studying the materials. For the last cruise in April, the detachment of ships in general and the battleship in particular had been preparing for more than one day, and they had to imagine a potential enemy in the person of the formation of aircraft carriers. The huge aft end could be freed from catapults and cranes for servicing artillery spotter aircraft; the enemy in the person of aircraft carriers simply would not let them take off. It would be possible to install additional anti-aircraft weapons from crippled ships under repair. With the same end result, they would cause more damage to the attackers.
  • Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 28 January 2021 18: 37
    +22
    Easy and fascinating about the complex - this is art! Oleg, thanks for the material. I read it in one breath and got real pleasure from the style of presentation of seemingly "boring", "technical" material.
    Sincerely, Boa.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 28 January 2021 18: 51
      +3
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      Easy and fun about complex

      I agree that Kaptsov's style was always easy to read. Although I found a little inconsistency -
      How many wolf do not feed, and the elephant more
      As far as I remember, this saying sounds a little different! laughing
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 28 January 2021 19: 06
        +3
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        How many wolf do not feed, and the elephant more

        And you can't compare with a donkey.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 28 January 2021 20: 37
        +7
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        How many wolf do not feed, and the elephant more
        As far as I remember, this saying sounds a little different!

        Igor, hi
        You are absolutely right! This saying goes something like this:
        "How many wolves do not feed, but an elephant ... Eeeeee ...." BIVNIE " lol thicker. "
        And we know this from our snotty years! yes
    2. Kuroneko
      Kuroneko 29 January 2021 13: 14
      +2
      The diameter of the tactical circulation "Yamato" at a speed of 26 knots was 640 meters. Outstanding indicator. Even for a battleship.

      Guess Kaptsov's article from the very first phrase. Personally, I guessed it. Well, yes, it's nice to see that he again saddled his favorite skate - thick-armored battleships. Already struck nostalgia.
  • Macsen_wledig
    Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 18: 39
    -3
    Excuse me, but what is the essence of this feuilleton? :)
  • Crowe
    Crowe 28 January 2021 18: 40
    +21
    Heavyweight fight

    I can hardly call it a battle. Rather, the last campaign of the most powerful battleship in the world .. "Yamato" set off on its last campaign in April 1945. The squadron was supposed to repel all attacks by American aircraft and reach the landing site of American units on the island of Okinawa. The command of the Japanese fleet. was able to find for the operation only 2500 tons of fuel. If the return of the squadron was considered difficult, the battleship was ordered to land on the coast of Okinawa and support the island's defenses with the fire of its guns. The arguments against the suicidal campaign were: lack of cover for fighters, great superiority of the Americans in surface ships, not to mention aircraft, the operation itself was delayed - the landing of the main forces of the American landing on Okinawa was completed. The most powerful ship of the Japanese fleet was supposed to play the role of a decoy. In order to maximize its last voyage, it was assigned a retinue of 9 ships. All of them were supposed to serve as a cover for Operation Kikusui - a massive attack by kamikaze pilots on the American fleet at the landing site. Everyone, from the admiral to the last sailor, understood that this campaign would be the last. An order was given that all young sailors , who remained the only sons in their families, had to leave the ship and go ashore. But many who had the right to do so remained on the Yamato to share the fate of their ship. At 18 o'clock the crew put on a clean uniform, an appeal from the commander was read fleet, which the crew met three times "Banzai" and the Japanese went to their last battle, the description of which deserves a separate article.
    The further fate of the ship and its sailors is known ...

    Japanese film "Yamato" (2005) I recommend, you will not regret it ...
  • Undecim
    Undecim 28 January 2021 18: 52
    +22
    Interesting, but illiterate.
    The diameter of the tactical circulation "Yamato" at a speed of 26 knots was 640 meters.
    There is no tactical circulation. There is a tactical circulation diameter - the straight-line distance between the line of the initial course and the center plane of the vessel when turning 180 °.
    To turn at full speed, he had enough 600 meters of space in front of the course (runout).
    And what the author had in mind is called a nomination.
    Ship run-out is the path traversed by the ship from the moment the command is given to reverse the propellers until the ship comes to a complete stop.

    Typical circulation trajectory.
    L1 - extension - the distance by which the ship's CG is shifted in the direction of the original heading from the starting point of the circulation to the point corresponding to the change in heading by 90 degrees;
    L2 - forward displacement - the distance from the line of the original course along the normal to the ship's CG at the time the course changes by 90 degrees;
    L3 - reverse displacement - the maximum displacement of the ship's CG from the line of the initial heading to the side opposite to the direction of turn, which occurs at the beginning of the circulation under the influence of the lateral rudder force causing the ship to drift;
    Dт - tactical diameter of the circulation - the distance between the positions of the centreline plane (DP) of the vessel before the start of the turn and at the time of changing the course by 180 degrees;
    Dust - the diameter of the steady circulation - the distance between the positions of the ship's DP on two successive courses differing by 180 degrees at steady motion.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 28 January 2021 19: 01
      +20
      And this is how the Yamato circulation looked.
  • Thrifty
    Thrifty 28 January 2021 19: 03
    -2
    Oleg! So, the Yamato's main caliber wasn't 406mm? You indicated 460mm, but I read in other sources that the main caliber was 406mm! Where is the truth? ??
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 19: 20
      +9
      And what are these "other sources"?
      The caliber 406 mm was indicated in various pre-war reference books and reference books of the wartime, when there was no exact information about the enemy ships (potential and real).
    2. Constanty
      Constanty 28 January 2021 19: 43
      +10
      To hide the real caliber, the Japanese initially misidentified them as 406 mm (and they did not have such guns, because both the Nagato and Mutsu actually had 410 mm guns).
      The caliber of the Yamato cannons is 460 mm, although the value of 457 mm was used in the literature.
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 19: 51
        +3
        Quote: Constanty
        the Japanese misidentified them as 406 mm

        Excuse me how? :)
        1. Constanty
          Constanty 28 January 2021 19: 55
          +4
          They just say these guns were officially designated 40 cm / 45 Type 94 (1934 model).
  • tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 28 January 2021 19: 05
    +11
    100 years before the Yamato, the Japanese built junks, and by the beginning of WWII their battleships came out on top. And what a handsome man, what power! Honestly, they are already taking envy.
    1. Atlant-1164
      Atlant-1164 28 January 2021 19: 37
      +16
      The Japanese initially understood that in terms of their production capabilities and resource base, they were not in a position to compete with the United States. Therefore, the emphasis should be placed not on quantity, but on quality. Battleships of the Yamato class were to be the largest warships ever built. Cyclopean-sized vehicles with impenetrable armor and powerful artillery. Each such ship went for two (or even more) enemy ships. The Japanese believed that the Americans would not build large ships due to their inability to pass through the Gulf of Panama. Therefore, the Japanese battleships had to have powerful armor and no less powerful artillery in order to dominate artillery duels in conditions of a possible numerical superiority of the enemy.
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 19: 53
        +1
        Quote: Atlant-1164
        The Japanese initially understood that in terms of their production capabilities and resource base, they were not in a position to compete with the United States.

        We have 6 Yamato versus 6 Iows and 6 Montans ... Not counting 6 negotiated LCs ... :)
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 January 2021 02: 38
          +1
          Quote: Macsen_Wledig
          We have 6 Yamato versus 6 Iows and 6 Montans ...

          Where will the Americans get them? And when? And why?

          Let me remind you that real Americans until the end believed that they were dealing with 40K / 16. "The Iowa theme itself was born from the passionate desire of Americans to make 33-node Nelson, first of all. For rational Americans, the transition to 45K would be completely irrelevant.
          1. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 11: 58
            0
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Where will the Americans get them? And when? And why?

            Build ... No? :)
            And when, you have to figure it out, because the mass construction of the LC is already a deviation from real history.

            Quote: Cherry Nine
            The Iowa theme itself was born out of the passionate desire of Americans to make 33-node Nelson in the first place.

            Where can I read about it?
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 02: 26
              +1
              Quote: Macsen_Wledig
              Build ... No? :)

              They won't build, London gets in the way until 42. It is difficult to show the Japanese that from the actual cancellation of London to the decisive battles, the Americans will have 6 years of run-up. They will sleep for 2 years, but they will still be in time.
              Quote: Macsen_Wledig
              And when, you need to figure out

              Iowa appeared in the acts of Congress in the summer of the 38th, a year later it was ordered, a year later it was laid, it was heroically built in 2.5 years (Seva, hello, Gorshkov, hello), it does not do a damn thing for another year, watches over Tirpitz, and only in February 44- go into battle. So it's not just an alternative, but the real construction of the LC, even according to pre-war plans, is not a very quick thing.
              Quote: Macsen_Wledig

              Where can I read about it?

              This is usually a reasonable question, but this is surprising. The mainstream version that the Americans, having undertaken to make the high-speed battleship Carolina, somehow got themselves Kalashnikov assault rifle your favorite chest Dakota, exchanging speed for 16 "and acceptable armor, and then using the growth of VI to finally get speed without giving up armor / caliber, are you not satisfied?
              1. Macsen_wledig
                Macsen_wledig 30 January 2021 11: 02
                0
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                They won't build, London gets in the way until 42.

                That is, if the Austrian artist doesn't get off the leash ...

                Quote: Cherry Nine
                for another year he does not do a damn thing, he guards Tirpitz, and only in February 44 he goes into battle.

                And where was the hurry? At THAT there is a lull. There is time for normal crew training and running in the lead ship of the series.

                Quote: Cherry Nine
                This is usually a reasonable question, but this is surprising.

                Let's just say ... The name "Nelson" has some associations with the design of the ship. :)
                The fact that some of the projects of "Caroline" were "nelson-like" I am aware of, but with regard to the "Iows" I hear this for the first time.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 11: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                  if the Austrian artist doesn't get off the leash ...

                  I think you know that
                  1. Americans do not need artists, they are artists themselves. They decided the issue with London already at the 38th.
                  2. The artist himself did not expect that Danzig's particular question would lead him into such an ambush, so it is all the more strange to trail such an analysis from the Japanese in 37.
                  3. As far as is known, the Japanese relied more on the channel than on pieces of paper. You can't just cancel it, although there were proposals.
                  Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                  There is time for normal crew training and running in the lead ship of the series.

                  I remember the first Essexes found something to do. However, it's nice to be healthy and rich, of course. You can, for example, ride Roosevelt, Republicans on destroyers approve.
                  Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                  some of the projects of "Caroline" were "nelson-like" I am aware of, but I have heard this for the first time regarding the "iows".

                  Oh, you mean it. Too metaphorically expressed, I beg your pardon. I meant that Nelson was 16 "LK balanced in armor (I wouldn't say that about Colorado and Nagato), and crossing 16" balance with Hood's speed was a natural idea of ​​fixing all battleship maniacs in the 30s. The rest of the countries, for one reason or another, did without it, but the Americans fell for it, as they say.
                  1. Macsen_wledig
                    Macsen_wledig 30 January 2021 11: 46
                    0
                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    1. Americans do not need artists, they are artists themselves. They decided the issue with London already at the 38th.

                    Then either a cross or underpants. :)
                    Either the Americans live in London or they don't.
                    You have London when you need it, and when you don't need it, no. :)

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    2. The artist himself did not expect that Danzig's particular question would lead him into such an ambush, so it is all the more strange to trail such an analysis from the Japanese in 37.

                    And what does the Japanese have to do with it: the Japanese planned to build at least 6 "yamata" ...
                    The question is in the actions of the Americans.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    3. As far as is known, the Japanese relied more on the channel than on pieces of paper. You can't just cancel it, although there were proposals.

                    "Montana" is ... :)
                    Or are you talking about the "Yamamoto Plan"?

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    I remember the first Essexes found something to do.

                    With AV it was still heavier than with LK.

                    Quote: Cherry Nine
                    Oh, you are about that.

                    Yes. About it.
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 12: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                      About it

                      Ship architecture was not meant.
                      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                      Or are you talking about the "Yamamoto Plan"?

                      I'm talking about plans to expand the channel.
                      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                      "Montana" is ... :)

                      Which was not built? Do you deny that the Japanese hoped that the Americans would not exceed Panamanian dimensions?
                      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                      And what does the Japanese have to do with it: the Japanese planned to build at least 6 "yamata" ...

                      5 EMNIP
                      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                      The question is in the actions of the Americans.

                      Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                      You have London when you need it, and when you don't need it, no. :)

                      Again. At the beginning of 37th, when decisions on Yamato are made, at the end of 37th, when it is laid down, there is London, there are battleship projects under Act 34, there are 5 kings laid down in 1/2 of 37th. The Japanese decision looks perfectly reasonable. For the 40th year, when Montanas appeared on the horizon, everything is not so obvious, but it is unlikely that it will be possible to come up with a better option without an afterthought and AUS.
                      1. Macsen_wledig
                        Macsen_wledig 30 January 2021 13: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Which was not built? Do you deny that the Japanese hoped that the Americans would not exceed Panamanian dimensions?

                        Let's just say that I don't have any direct data on what the Japanese expected ... And you can't put any "hope" on it.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        5 EMNIP

                        Even seven
                        Yamato, Musashi, Shinano, 111, 797, 798 and 799 (last pair with 3x2-510 mm)

                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        The Japanese decision looks perfectly reasonable.

                        I'm actually talking about Americans. :)
                      2. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 13: 29
                        0
                        Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                        last pair with 3x2-510 mm

                        Well, I don't attribute this dream of reason to Yamato. Although not important.
                        Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                        I'm actually talking about Americans. :)

                        Lost the thread. I put forward the thesis that the decision of the Japanese to build the Yamato was reasonable, taking into account the information that the Japanese had at the beginning and middle of 37.
                      3. Macsen_wledig
                        Macsen_wledig 30 January 2021 13: 50
                        0
                        Quote: Cherry Nine
                        Well, I don't attribute this dream of reason to Yamato. Although not important.

                        Judging by the available information, the Japanese simply changed the towers.
                        By the way, the Americans found the experimental barrel.

                        Quote: Cherry Nine

                        Lost the thread.

                        When the conversation about plans comes up, on the one hand you say that the Americans will not build "Montans" because London is valid until 42, on the other hand, you constantly recall the "Two-Ocean Navy Act" ... :)
                      4. Cherry Nine
                        Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 13: 54
                        0
                        I'm talking about that
                        1. The Japanese in 37 dealt with the British and Americans in 37. Both have a London treaty and Washingtonians.
                        2. The Japanese in the 40th year see the bookmark of the Aoiw by the act of the 38th year. Yamato still seems like a reasonable decision.
                        3. The battleship-building activity of the Americans developed not due to the collapse of the treaty system in 39, but according to their own, earlier schedule.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 29 January 2021 00: 17
    +3
    And if you dream ...
    In some alternative universe, Yamato and Musashi survived the war and were divided between the USSR and the USA, each one piece. In the 1950s, they were put on a joke as museums, but they were not ruined, but somehow maintained, such as clean up the rust there, tint here ...
    In the 1980s, they were re-powered and put back into operation. The auxiliary calibers were thrown out, replaced by modern autocannons and anti-aircraft missiles. On the mast there would be somewhere to shove the radar (s). And the cherry on top: in the empty, unused extremities, vertical launchers of anti-ship missiles and / or missiles.
    Nothing monsters? At least compared to Project 1164? Or doesn't it make sense?
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 29 January 2021 02: 53
      0
      Quote: Nagan
      Or doesn't it make sense?

      Doesn't have. Let me remind you that real LCs are all, there were a lot of them - for a long time, at best, museums. Ap iow for aegis was considered irrational, right or wrong, but in fact
      done like this.

      The Americans, of course, will not leave the Japanese LC as a museum, what madness? Zhahnut AB in 46, along with all the rest of the junk.

      Will the USSR be able to maintain such a ship for 40 years? That size? At the same time not your own, completely unique? This is even less science fiction. If the battleship Soviet Union had been needed in the 80s, they would have built it, it doesn't take much mind.

      It was relatively realistic for the USSR to get one from the Littorio. If this happened, then at best it would have served until the 80s, like 68bis. But rather in the 60s they would have written off.
      1. Revolver
        Revolver 29 January 2021 04: 50
        +2
        However, Iowa under Reagan was reactivated and re-armed with Axes. And it seems that even they had a chance to shoot with the main caliber at real targets, though only ground ones. If Yamato were alive, it is quite possible that he would be plowed. And 18-inches are not walrus horseradish.
        And even now Iowa, although they are listed as museums, the main systems have not been dismantled, but mothballed, so that, if necessary, they can be put into operation at a relatively low price.
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 29 January 2021 08: 34
          0
          Quote: Nagan
          Iowa under Reagan was reactivated

          Political decision. More effective than effective.
          Quote: Nagan
          re-equipped with Axes

          Z2 tomogavka and 16 harpoons? Such weapons can be put on the frigate. The battleship KUG of the 80s included tics and spruenses, of course, against the background of their capabilities, the grandfather was nothing more than a gunboat. But there is a lot of pathos, of course.
          Quote: Nagan
          If Yamato were alive, it is quite possible that he would be plowed

          1. He couldn't be alive. Americans had nowhere to do with their own, what other Yamato.
          2. Of the 10 American battleships of the last wave, only 4 Iowa were activated.
          Quote: Nagan
          18-inch is not walrus horseradish.

          There is no need at all. One of the arguments for the reopening of the Iowas was a large stock of shells in warehouses. Naturally, the Americans did not have a stock of 18 "shells.
          Quote: Nagan
          so that in case of need they can be put into operation at a relatively low price.

          Fairy tales. 30 years have passed, to open the case, change all the cars and all the electronics to get what?
        2. Ben Gunn
          Ben Gunn 29 January 2021 13: 42
          0
          It will not work to put them into operation in any way. In the 80s, when they were returned after conservation, this happened with great difficulty, although at that time many people were still alive and efficient, who served in Iowa and could tell and show what and how. It's not real now.
  • Victor Leningradets
    Victor Leningradets 29 January 2021 13: 01
    +1
    Excuse me, what is the beauty of these super-battleships? That a silly enemy would trample on impenetrable ships with a wall?
    And if it does not trample, but maneuvers rather low-speed units. It will impose a long-range battle, where the side armor does not matter, and the deck armor is not capable of withstanding armor-piercing shells and due to the higher rate of fire of more numerous units, it will have much more chances of hitting the target and "lacishot".
    Everyone is hypnotized by the gigantic guns of the battleships, but it is more important to have the main artillery sufficient to reliably defeat the enemy at real combat distances. The guns of 381 - 406-mm high-speed battleships of pre-war construction are quite adequate to this.
    1. Sergey Zhikharev
      Sergey Zhikharev 29 January 2021 17: 23
      0
      Excuse me, what is the beauty of these super-battleships?

      Because the enemy has more battleships. And if you make similar battleships, then with a 1: 1 exchange, a situation will arise when we (Japan) are without battleships, and the enemy (USA / Great Britain) is still with battleships. The superlinkor provided a 1: 3 exchange, i.e. battleships would end at the same time.
      That a silly enemy would trample on impenetrable ships with a wall?

      Does the enemy know that we (Japan) have impenetrable ships with all the weapons? - no, he does not know (the Americans learned the real performance characteristics of the Yamato after the war.
      And if it does not trample, but maneuvers rather low-speed units. It will impose a long-range battle, where the side armor does not matter, and the deck armor is not capable of withstanding armor-piercing shells and due to the higher rate of fire of more numerous units, it will have much more chances of hitting the target and "lacishot".

      In this case, the British had to write off the "Nelson" and "Rodney" immediately after commissioning, because in the event of war, these LKs would be "a crime against British sailors." However, the British did not write off, which means they were counting on something. Yes, and opponents of the Yamato - North Caroline and South Dakota had a similar speed (yes, Iowa is faster).
      At the same time, the Japanese just believed that the battle would be at a long distance, and here more powerful weapons would say a weighty word.
      Everyone is hypnotized by the gigantic guns of the battleships, but it is more important to have the main artillery sufficient to reliably defeat the enemy at real combat distances. The guns of 381 - 406-mm high-speed battleships of pre-war construction are quite adequate to this.

      As it turned out, it is better to have a developed fire control system. This is where the Japanese have problems ...
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 18: 57
        0
        Quote: Sergey Zhikharev
        As it turned out, it is better to have a developed fire control system. This is where the Japanese have problems ...

        With the optical, so to speak, SUAO, the Japanese were doing well.
        What they had problems with was radars.

        In the daytime battle of the initial period of the war between pre-war LCs, I would bet on the Yamato.
        1. Sergey Zhikharev
          Sergey Zhikharev 29 January 2021 19: 09
          0
          Yes, it's more likely the problem with radars
          1. Revolver
            Revolver 29 January 2021 20: 12
            +1
            Quote: Sergey Zhikharev
            Yes, it's more likely the problem with radars

            There were no problems with radars. Without them ... lol And the Japanese, unlike the Americans, did not have a decent radar that could help in pointing guns. What was, was only suitable for early (relatively) detection of air targets. In principle, surface targets could also be detected, but the detection range was less than the firing range, moreover, not only of its main caliber, but also, what is worse, of the enemy. And the resolution was expressed in hundreds of meters, which somehow was not very suitable for guidance. In addition, the volleys of their own main caliber had a side effect, expressed in the destruction of radar antennas. Guaranteed from the first shot.lol
            But the Americans with radars were much better. And with range, and resolution, and reliability. So in a hypothetical meeting between Yamato and Iowa (and even more so several Iowas), I would bet on the Americans.
            1. Sergey Zhikharev
              Sergey Zhikharev 29 January 2021 20: 45
              +1
              So in a hypothetical meeting between Yamato and Iowa (and even more so several Iowas), I would bet on the Americans

              I will bet the same on the Americans (even with the Iowa-Yamato ratio).
              Yes, and in the case of a hypothetical battle "Japanese linear fleet against the American fleet" (suppose it took place in 1942), then even after the epic Japanese victory (let's play along with the Japanese), the Americans would build new battleships and still roll out the Japanese ... ...
            2. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 02: 50
              +1
              Quote: Nagan
              So in a hypothetical meeting between Yamato and Iowa (and even more so several Iowas), I would bet on the Americans.

              In reality, the chances of a meeting between Iowa and Yamato were maximal at the end of the Battle of Leyte, when TF 34.5 in Iowa, New Jersey, 3 CD and 8 EM missed Kurita (Yamato, Nagato, 2 Congo, (Nagato and one of the Congo is badly beaten by aircraft), 5 CR, 11 EMs of varying degrees of beating). When used perfectly to their strengths, the Americans are the favorites, but expecting the perfect fight from the Americans is a bit odd given their other performances. So Yamato's opportunity to write himself in history was not bad at all.
              1. Revolver
                Revolver 30 January 2021 03: 00
                +1
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                expecting a perfect fight from the Americans is somewhat odd given their other performances.

                There and then everything was screwed up. And in general, war is such a thing that there is no such thing as jambs.
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                So Yamato's opportunity to write himself in history was not bad at all.
                Or maybe it's for the best. Hundreds, if not thousands, of deaths and injuries did not occur.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 30 January 2021 11: 09
                  +1
                  Quote: Nagan
                  and for the better. Hundreds, if not thousands of deaths and injuries did not occur

                  Some strange argument on the site of the militarists. If you want to alternatively save people - cancel the whole pointless Filipino operation, and ideally - figure out how to keep the Philippines right away: locked in the northern hemisphere, without Indonesia, the Japanese will not last a year.
  • mr.ZinGer
    mr.ZinGer 28 January 2021 19: 57
    +1
    I read that before the war, 30 percent of Japan's budget went to the construction of the fleet.
  • NF68
    NF68 28 January 2021 19: 14
    +14
    The last fight between Yamato and Musashi gives no reason for comparisons. No other battleship has been shot like this. And no one could have survived with 10+ hits below the waterline.


    The German battleship Scharnhost was hit by at least 14 torpedoes. And these were ship-borne torpedoes with significantly more powerful warheads than the aviation torpedoes that hit the Japanese battleships. In addition to the topred, at least 13 14 "shells hit the Scharnhorst. And the Scharnhorst's" displacement "was about 2 times less than that of the Japanese. But the “Bismarck” sinks rather slowly, and its displacement was also 1,5 times less than that of the Japanese.
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 19: 32
      +6
      Quote: NF68
      The German battleship Scharnhost was hit by at least 14 torpedoes.

      Officially - 11, the Germans believe that 8 ...
      14 is the number of underwater explosions recorded by British acousticians.

      Quote: NF68
      The German battleship Scharnhost was hit by at least 14 torpedoes. And these were ship-borne torpedoes with significantly more powerful warheads than the aviation torpedoes that hit the Japanese battleships.

      In fact, you need to dig what torpedoes the British CR and EM used ...
      If with old warheads, then 340 kg of TNT is quite equivalent to 275 kg of torpex.

      Quote: NF68
      In addition to the topred, Scharnhorst received at least 13 14 "shells.

      Of these 13, only one probable underwater hit, that is, the effect of these hits on the stability of the ship is minimal.

      Quote: NF68
      Yes, and "Bismarck" was shot almost point-blank by the crowd and he got a lot of torpedoes

      Again, there were no underwater hits.
      As for the torpedoes, there were 7-8.
      1. NF68
        NF68 29 January 2021 17: 54
        0
        Officially - 11, the Germans believe that 8 ...
        14 is the number of underwater explosions recorded by British acousticians.


        14 underwater explosions - if 11 torpedoes officially hit, then three more underwater explosions could well have been caused by shells hitting below the waterline. Although it is quite possible and explosions of steam boilers after entering the compartments with boilers cold seawater.


        In fact, you need to dig what torpedoes the British CR and EM used ...
        If with old warheads, then 340 kg of TNT is quite equivalent to 275 kg of torpex.


        Even in this case, the difference in displacement is 2 times


        Of these 13, only one probable underwater hit, that is, the effect of these hits on the stability of the ship is minimal.


        Minimal, but nevertheless there was a hit. In addition, cruisers also fired, and it is quite possible that their shells fell not only into the heavily armored citadel, but also at the end of the Scharnhorst hull where the armor was thinner or the shells could also hit under the belt where they were opposed only by thin plating. You yourself have specified that 14 underwater explosions were recorded.

        Quote: Macsen_Wledig
        Again, there were no underwater hits.
        As for the torpedoes, there were 7-8.


        There was an underwater hit of 356 mm. shell from the "Prince of Wales" on May 24. The projectile passed under the lower edge of the belt, damaging the longitudinal anti-torpedo bulkhead, because of which water began to flow into the boiler room and fuel oil from the compartment damaged by the projectile left a prominent mark behind the Bismarck. And then, when they finished off the "Bismarck" they shot almost at the right place, they could well have slapped in below the waterline. The Bismarck hull was turned into a colander by the artillery of battleships and cruisers, and then torpedoes were added. If the "Rodney" could shoot at the bow towers of the "Bismarck", the British could walk on the hull at the waterline level.
        1. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 18: 37
          0
          Quote: NF68
          then three more underwater explosions could well have been caused by shells hitting below the waterline.

          Torpedo explosions are somewhat different from the explosions of shells, if only because of the weight of the explosive ... :)

          Quote: NF68
          Even in this case, the difference in displacement is 2 times

          The displacement is secondary: in this case, the ability of the torpedo warhead to penetrate the PTZ is interesting.

          Quote: NF68
          Minimal, but nevertheless there was a hit.

          I wrote in Russian: "probable." The British believe that the Scharnhorst vehicles were disabled by an underwater hit under the belt.

          Quote: NF68
          In addition, cruisers also fired, and it is quite possible that their shells hit not only the heavily armored citadel,

          Of the cruisers, only Jamaica fired: during the chase (1651-1828), 41 volleys were fired, one hit was noted, and when entering a torpedo attack - 4 volleys, several hits were noted.

          Quote: NF68
          You yourself have specified that 14 underwater explosions were recorded.

          Torpedo explosions ...

          Quote: NF68
          There was an underwater hit of 356 mm. shell from the "Prince of Wales" on May 24.

          But you are writing about the battle on May 27 ... :)
          The distances are very different.

          Quote: NF68
          And then, when they finished off the "Bismarck" they shot almost at the right place, they could well have slapped in below the waterline.

          It is unlikely that the angle of incidence of the shells was so small that the shells ricocheted off the water.

          Quote: NF68
          If the "Rodney" could shoot at the bow towers of the "Bismarck"

          In fact, the towers "died" long before the "Rodney" approached the pistol range.
          1. NF68
            NF68 29 January 2021 19: 02
            0
            Torpedo explosions are somewhat different from the explosions of shells, if only because of the weight of the explosive ... :)


            But shells of large caliber can penetrate deep into the body where and from a small explosive charge in an explosion of 720 kg. shell can mess things up. The Scharnhorst crew at that time was very "happy" and they didn't care what got into their battleship and exploded, and there was enough roar.

            The displacement is secondary: in this case, the possibility of a torpedo warhead to penetrate the PTZ is interesting


            The larger displacement and large dimensions of the battleship make it possible to create a more advanced, albeit in theory, PTZ. This is also a significant factor.

            I wrote in Russian: "probable." The British believe that the Scharnhorst vehicles were disabled by an underwater hit under the belt.


            Several bulkheads were damaged.

            Of the cruisers, only Jamaica fired: during the chase (1651-1828), 41 volleys were fired, one hit was noted, and when entering a torpedo attack - 4 volleys, several hits were noted.


            Additional holes. Even if not large.

            But you are writing about the fight on May 27 ... :) The distances are very different.


            But the hole received on May 24 did not go anywhere that the state of “Bismarck” 27 clearly did not improve.

            It is unlikely that the angle of incidence of the shells was so small that the shells ricocheted off the water.


            When falling close to the side after the ricochet of the shell, they again fell into the already thoroughly battered hull of the Bismarck.

            In fact, the towers "died" long before the "Rodney" approached the pistol range.


            The question is different - if the "Rodney" could calmly come so close that it could shoot specifically at the towers, then the British probably did not forget the "Bismarck" corps.
            1. Macsen_wledig
              Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 19: 49
              0
              Quote: NF68
              But large-caliber shells can penetrate deep into the hull where

              Quote: NF68
              Several bulkheads were damaged.

              The problem is that there is no confirmation of such hits ...

              Quote: NF68
              Additional holes. Even if not large.

              One ...
              The hits during the torpedo attack were already like a dead plantain: the Scharnhorst was already sinking.

              Quote: NF68
              When falling close to the side after the ricochet of the shell, they again fell into the already thoroughly battered hull of the Bismarck.

              Into the freeboard ...

              Quote: NF68
              The question is different - if the "Rodney" could easily come so close that he could shoot specifically at the towers,

              Well, he did not shoot specifically at the towers ...
              Understand that a naval gun is not a sniper rifle: yes, the crosshair of the sight could be aimed at the turret, but this does not guarantee a hit.
              1. NF68
                NF68 31 January 2021 17: 03
                0
                Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                Well, he did not shoot specifically at the towers ...
                Understand that a naval gun is not a sniper rifle: yes, the crosshair of the sight could be aimed at the turret, but this does not guarantee a hit.


                I understand that, but in this case, the Rodney fired from a distance of less than 3 km. The Bismarck was sailing at a speed of about 7 knots.
    2. Elturisto
      Elturisto 28 January 2021 21: 37
      -1
      Really so. Protecting Yamato shit.
      1. NF68
        NF68 29 January 2021 19: 12
        0
        Quote: ElTuristo
        Really so. Protecting Yamato shit.


        She doesn't look like shit either. But it is possible that with such a displacement and size of the battleship, it was possible to create a more advanced PTZ.
  • John22
    John22 28 January 2021 19: 17
    +6
    The article is informative. The design of Yamato-class battleships is unique. The ideas of the designers of these battleships are completely unknown. The story is instructive. But the presentation of the material by the author is a mockery of the reader: in Yamato, the circulation in meters - in Littorio - in the corps. Humorist.
  • BAI
    BAI 28 January 2021 19: 20
    +1
    And in conclusion, we recall the following words:

    Japanese: there are 3 unnecessary things in the world: the Pyramids of Cheops, the Great Wall of China and battleships of the Yamato type.
    1. Santa Fe
      28 January 2021 20: 12
      +4
      unnecessary things

      Operation Ki-Ta, the breakthrough of battleships from Singapore in 1945
  • nnm
    nnm 28 January 2021 19: 29
    +2
    And the Shinano commander did not feel any threat after being hit by 4 torpedoes, continuing to steer the ship on the same course, without reducing speed.

    Please tell me how you assess the memoirs of D. Inright in relation to this event?
  • Constanty
    Constanty 28 January 2021 19: 37
    +2
    The Japanese made a calculation and obtained the following results: the unsinkability and stability of the Yamato can be ensured even if both ends are flooded.


    The example of the Musashi on October 25, 1944 shows that the sinking of the unprotected bow sealed the ship's fate - although, on the other hand, no other ship, including the greatly overpriced Iowa, would have suffered from the impact. 20 torpedoes with warheads of such TNT equivalent
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 20: 02
      +1
      Quote: Constanty

      The example of the Musashi dated October 25, 1944 shows that the flooding of the unprotected bow sealed the fate of the ship.

      Have you forgotten about the flooding of the citadel?
      1. Constanty
        Constanty 28 January 2021 20: 08
        +2
        I have not forgotten. However, it was the lowering of the bow and the large trim of the bow that led to a significant drop in speed and disruption of the formation of the crew, which made the lone ship an easier target for American aviation.

        Moreover, the damage to the nose was caused not only by direct hits, but also by close explosions of bombs that did not hit the ship itself.
        1. Santa Fe
          28 January 2021 20: 14
          +2
          the ship is an easier target for American aviation.

          Lighter / heavier. There is no chance

          Musashi rocked 8 aircraft carriers
          1. Constanty
            Constanty 28 January 2021 20: 20
            +1
            Being in the composition (and in the center) of a large group of ships "Musashi", he was not subjected to such a massive attack, but yes to myself - I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the history of the battle on the Sibuyan sea.
            1. Santa Fe
              31 January 2021 04: 06
              0
              Most attacks focused on Musashi
  • smaug78
    smaug78 28 January 2021 19: 38
    0
    Immediately understood -Kaptsov laughing Pointless and merciless ...
  • Vadim_888
    Vadim_888 28 January 2021 19: 57
    +4
    This technique is simply mesmerizing, and when you consider when and how it was built ...
  • Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 28 January 2021 20: 05
    +1
    It’s interesting - would they have invested in such a monster, had an idea of ​​the power of nuclear weapons?
    1. Santa Fe
      28 January 2021 20: 16
      +5
      As shown by tests on Bikini
      YAO against ships zilch
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 28 January 2021 20: 26
        +2
        Induced radiation .. at least permanent damage and replacement of all electronics ..
        1. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 20: 45
          0
          Quote: Knell Wardenheart
          Induced radiation .. at least permanent damage and replacement of all electronics ..

          "Induced radiation" on the ships appeared after the "Baker", when the ships were covered with a wave.
          SUAO remained in working order ...
          1. Santa Fe
            28 January 2021 21: 44
            +3
            Maybe it did. Just how did it affect combat capability

            The dangers of induced radiation are best seen in this photo from Pensacola, near the epicenter. Visitors in spacesuits of the highest protection

            I have no doubt that many of these people have had health consequences over the decades. But by that time, the battleship had long since completed the task

            Bikini showed that nuclear weapons are nothing against the fleet
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 29 January 2021 11: 45
              -1
              Quote: Santa Fe
              The dangers of induced radiation are best seen in this photo from Pensacola, near the epicenter. Visitors in high protection space suits

              I have no doubt that many of these people have had health consequences over the decades. But by that time, the battleship had long since completed the task

              Do not confuse decontamination and combat service. On "Eugen" after a similar decontamination, the level of radiation was such that the permanent presence of the emergency party and even repair work were considered impossible. That is, it was still possible to run in with mops and hoses and run away, but to stay for a long time - no longer.
              1. Macsen_wledig
                Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 12: 08
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                On "Eugen" after a similar decontamination, the level of radiation was such that the permanent presence of the emergency party and even repair work were considered impossible.

                This was after the "Baker", when the cruiser was flooded with water with plutonium ...
  • Victor Tsenin
    Victor Tsenin 28 January 2021 20: 11
    +1
    For a decent, non-imperialist country, a powerfully armored (attention to the armor of modern ships) battleship with powerful guns (active-reactive, large caliber) and modern air defense / missile defense / anti-tank equipment is preferable to a floating airfield, there is such an opinion.
    1. Kwas
      Kwas 29 January 2021 17: 37
      +1
      I agree with the opinion. Modern naval aviation simply does not have a weapon capable of inflicting fatal damage on a well-armored ship. Under the conditions of its protection by modern air defense systems.
  • bubalik
    bubalik 28 January 2021 20: 21
    +5
    Clumsy, excessively huge, armored dinosaurs lost to light, unprotected, but high-speed and massive aircraft in use.
    Directly in the attacks on the Yamato, 227 aircraft participated (280 aircraft were sent, 53 did not hit the target). A third of the carrier-based aircraft were fighters, two hundred carrier-based aircraft in two hours destroyed the entire Japanese squadron. No second hit was needed.
    The attack began at exactly 10:00. By two o'clock in the afternoon, the Yamato lay on board and exploded at 14:23.

    The losses of the Americans amounted to 10 aircraft (four torpedo bombers, three bombers, three fighters). About 20 more vehicles were damaged by anti-aircraft fire, but were able to return to their ships ,,,
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 20: 46
      +5
      Quote: bubalik
      Clumsy, excessively huge, armored dinosaurs lost to light, unprotected, but high-speed and massive aircraft in use.

      Again ... This is an afterthought.
    2. Victor Tsenin
      Victor Tsenin 30 January 2021 16: 33
      +1
      We lost exactly at the time when the air defense lost outright to aviation. A few years later, the saturation of missiles / powerful radars began and the situation changed dramatically.
  • businessv
    businessv 28 January 2021 20: 42
    +1
    Those ships are long gone. But you can talk about their weapons next time.
    Oleg, thank you very much for the article! Very interesting, we are waiting for the next one! good
  • Elturisto
    Elturisto 28 January 2021 21: 09
    +5
    However, a short citadel also means a short PTZ. From that, the Yamato and Musashi sank - the rapid flooding of the unprotected bow end, accompanied by a roll of the load and on the side - loss of stability and overkil. Most likely, the keel beam broke from overload. In short, high speed requires payment in the form of mediocre protection. A Bismarck of similar displacement would have lasted much longer. Remember Blucher who received up to 100 shells and a couple of torpedoes.
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 28 January 2021 21: 29
      +1
      Quote: ElTuristo
      From that, the Yamato and Musashi sank - the rapid flooding of the unprotected bow end, accompanied by a roll of the load and on the side - loss of stability and overkil.

      As I asked above: do you not take into account the flooding of the citadel's compartments from hits that pierced the PTZ?

      Quote: ElTuristo
      Most likely, the keel girder also broke from overload.

      Both ships turned over the side, that is, they died from the loss of lateral coolness, and here the keel beam break?
      1. Elturisto
        Elturisto 28 January 2021 21: 40
        -1
        Hits into the citadel, on the contrary, reduced the roll on the nose. As for the break, I can not help you - learn physics ...
        1. Macsen_wledig
          Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 12: 11
          +3
          Quote: ElTuristo
          Hitting the citadel, on the contrary, reduced the roll on the nose.

          Read "Naval Shipbuilding" by Evers and you will be happy ...

          Quote: ElTuristo
          I can't help you about the break - learn physics ...

          What does your fantasy have to do with physics? :)
  • Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 28 January 2021 21: 34
    -1
    so much metal and without meaning ... died
  • Potter
    Potter 28 January 2021 22: 20
    +4
    Thanks for the article, it reads interestingly. In terms of the width of the hull, the Soviet Union could become a competitor to Yamato - 38,9 m. But while the Japanese were able to create an anti-torpedo defense with a depth of 5m, then Chilikin made 8m. The length of the MCO at Yamato is 100m, in the Soviet Union it is 90m, but the power is 230 hp. It is a pity that these are only theoretical characteristics. Although the hull even went into the water and was used for several years to test missile weapons.
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 29 January 2021 13: 11
      0
      It's funny, but the width of the Soviet Union and Yamato in boules is the same = 38,9 m.
      But the hull of our battleship is terrible from the point of view of hydrodynamics.
      In general, if we compare these two ships, then the Soviet Union is worse in all respects.
      As the history of the design of Soviet battleships shows, a battleship of equal protection and armament could be crammed into 48-50 thousand tons, while having a stroke of 2-3 knots more.
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 13: 29
        0
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        As the history of the design of Soviet battleships shows, a battleship of equal protection and armament could be crammed into 48-50 thousand tons, while having a stroke of 2-3 knots more.

        Where can you find the "correct" battleships?
        1. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 1 February 2021 14: 56
          0
          I have already written about them. Monograph AM Vasiliev Battleships of the "Soviet Union" type. LLC "Galeya Print", St. Petersburg 2006 Chapter "Completion of the history of the project of battleship B."
          I quote: "On November 29, 1937, the 2GU NKOP issued TsKB-17 an outfit for the development of a draft design 64 (deadline February 15, 1938). The main elements of the projects are 23, 23bis, 64 and 64bis (the latter is hypothetical, obtained as a result of a large-scale recalculation based on projects 64 and ratios of ratios of projects 23 and 23bis.
          For convenience, the results are tabulated:

          Characteristics Project 23 Project 23bis Project 64 Project 64bis
          Displacement:
          Standard, t 59150 60800 48000 49700
          Full, t 65150 66800 53000 54700
          Artillery weapons:
          406-мм/50 3х3 3х3 3х3
          356 mm / 54 3x3
          152-мм/57 6х2 4х3 6х2 4х3
          100-мм/56 4х2 6х2 4х2 6х2
          37-мм/68 8х4 8х4 8х4 8х4
          Art. load "armament", t 8547 8720 8760 * 8720
          Art. load "ammunition", t 1920 1990 1577 1990
          Protection:
          Reservations - from 406 mm shells and FAB-500;
          PTZ - from two torpedoes under the bottom or three to the side;
          Power plant: Three-shaft with a capacity of 201 hp
          Full speed, knots 27,5 30 29 31,6
          ______________________________
          * the mass of the 3x356-mm tower is 2435 t, the mass of the 3x406-mm tower is 2364 t
          1. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 1 February 2021 18: 40
            0
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            I have already written about them.

            The fact that further TTZ business did not go you probably does not bother?
            After all, no one knows where it all would grow.
            1. Victor Leningradets
              Victor Leningradets 2 February 2021 11: 29
              0
              It does not bother at all, especially since the second message is fundamentally wrong.
              Project 69 (heavy cruiser "Kronstadt") is a clone of Project 64. Yes, that's why as a cruiser it is absolutely absurd. Overweight hull construction, eerie hydrodynamics (Cadm = 176), overdeveloped PTZ, etc. But! All correct decisions (smooth-deck hull, low sloping armor belt, exclusively anti-fragmentation armor outside the citadel) also migrated to the cruiser project. When the realization came that the Soviet design school in ave. 23 had made it, the head of the Scientific and Technical Committee (STC) of the Navy A.S. Frolov on August 27.08.1939, 23, presented to the Deputy People's Commissar of the Navy I.S. Isakov a memo on the actual elimination of design flaws of pr. 45 on battleships of the second series, the preliminary development for which TsNII-23 received the code pr. 64bis. In this project, the groundwork obtained in project XNUMX was also largely used.
              So, you can imagine where you would grow, but the implementation of the 64bis project (this is my calculated assumption, and not a real project at all) would have encountered the same insurmountable obstacles as the construction of real battleships.
              In engineering, the creation of a new (but not revolutionary) type of weapons allows for a radical change in one and a significant second component of the project. The rest are subject to only minor improvements. Otherwise, the project will either fail, or it will require incredible material, human and time costs, which will obviously devalue it.
              The Japanese acted in full accordance with these guidelines:
              They designed the Yamato with new main caliber artillery and significantly increased armor protection. The ship's hull, energy, ship systems have undergone minor improvements in comparison with existing projects.
              Having no experience in creating such sophisticated equipment as a battleship, Soviet engineers jumped from acceleration into the very center of a dangerous quagmire of compiling the most advanced solutions in one project. Everything in our project: hull, weapons, systems, energy and, most importantly, armor - everything was the newest, absolutely not mastered by the industry of the USSR. In this situation, it was necessary either to rely entirely on foreign aid (in the current situation - on Italian, and its value in terms of ship power and weapons models is limited), or humbling pride to blind ships at the available capacities with appropriate restrictions. Well, the third way is a rational combination of the first two.
      2. Potter
        Potter 29 January 2021 15: 42
        0
        The Americans in Iowa shoved a little more powerful turbines into 59000 tons, squeezed the hull and put the armor belt 110 mm thinner. We got +4 knots in speed and much worse security. Avenue 23 is far from perfect, but even having carried out all the measures that were introduced in Iowa - the use of welding, aluminum paints, lightweight furniture and a host of other trifles - it was possible to achieve 3-4 thousand tons of displacement reduction. Comparing with Yamato - the armoring of extremities in Ave 23, the Japanese have them naked. At the same time, the Japanese are 7000 tons heavier.
        1. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 2 February 2021 12: 38
          0
          Project 23 in terms of booking is a flawed apotheosis of the "frightened Tsushima". Additional armoring of the extremities with the "anti-explosive" belt is complete nonsense, as if the ships of the 40s of the XX century were repeating the tactics of 1905 - a sort of "Memory of Suvorov". No, now only a few hits by armor-piercing shells in vital centers have become important, not for drowning, but for disabling weapons, fire control systems, and the ship's energy. Well, do not forget about "Lakishot"! An example is the fate of Bismarck and Hood. Therefore, the correct reservation system assumes the most possible protection of the citadel (especially the barbets and towers) and the anti-fragmentation or anti-shell armor of the rest of the ship relative to the calibers of the destroyers. Successful examples of the scheme are Vittorio Veneto and Vanguard, although the protection of the main battery artillery is rather weak.
          1. Macsen_wledig
            Macsen_wledig 2 February 2021 18: 37
            0
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            Project 23 in terms of booking is a flawed apotheosis of the "frightened Tsushima".

            Were the Germans scared too? :)

            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            Well, do not forget about "Lakishot"! An example is the fate of Bismarck and Hood.

            Such examples to themselves.
            Nobody is immune from a torpedo hit in the stern.
            And what happened to "Hood" is a very open question.

            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            Successful examples of the scheme are "Vittorio Veneto" and "Vanguard",

            What hits did they get from "battleship" caliber shells?
            1. Victor Leningradets
              Victor Leningradets 3 February 2021 10: 01
              0
              The Ubermensch followed their own tradition, somewhat modified. And in our country - "Fugas", yes, sir.
              "Lakishot" for "Bismarck" - the loss of SUAO, although the ship was practically uncontrollable, and, of course, thin-skin towers and barbets.
              The anti-fragmentation and, if I may say so, "anti-five-inch" armor of battleships does not need to be checked with the main caliber, but it has been tested on cruisers.
  • tralflot1832
    tralflot1832 29 January 2021 08: 42
    +3
    One of the few articles by the author, which I read to the end! I don’t know why, the Japanese were enemies in the 45th, but I was always interested in why the Japanese battleships did not show themselves in battle. Over time, it became clear that the time of battleships had passed, a whole era of naval military art, playing chess at sea! Thanks for the article!
  • shinobi
    shinobi 29 January 2021 10: 40
    +1
    History does not like the subjunctive mood. Yamamoto was right. In a protracted war, victory is determined by the internal resources of the belligerent states. Initially, it was clear that Japan would not win a war of attrition.
    1. Elturisto
      Elturisto 29 January 2021 13: 27
      +1
      They did not plan to win the war. They counted on achieving equilibrium within the defensive perimeter. In general, the situation is indicative, Japan had no chance of victory, which Yamamoto (and he was not alone) recognized, and the Japanese attacked anyway. What will happen to China, When the US screws it up against the wall, it will only have to block its own soybean supplies. Who will China attack?
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 30 January 2021 00: 26
        0
        They were just going to, and they would win, if they had to pass the strike on Pearl Harbor as planned. Destroy the Japanese aviation fuel depots and aircraft carriers in the port at the piers, for America the war in the Pacific ended before it began. The same parity would have been achieved. whether not a victory? But what happened happened.
        1. Elturisto
          Elturisto 30 January 2021 10: 48
          0
          The kindergarten just ended like that. Do you even know how many aircraft carriers the Americans built during the war? Liberty type transports, they built at a rate of 1 piece / day. Therefore, Yamomoto did not hope to win, because he knew the real economic potential of America.
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 2 February 2021 02: 01
            0
            My dear, if the Japanese in Harbor burn the fuel supplies, and the American fleet would remain tied to the shore as big targets. This is not my opinion, but Admiral Nimtz's. Or is he not an authority for you? Economy-economy, but supply-supply. Transport. logistics, the Achilles heel of the US army. It was, is and will be. Like any state focused on external military expansion. Too extended communications. All the combined power of the allies was not enough to guard transport convoys. Therefore, the Yankees riveted transport workers like pancakes at Shrovetide. historical facts, or useful. And do not draw them to your conjectures. It is ugly in relation to the same American veterans.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 2 February 2021 10: 37
              +1
              Quote: shinobi
              My dear, burn up the Japanese in Harbor fuel supplies, and the American fleet would remain - to sit tied to the shore as big targets. This is not my opinion, but Admiral Nimtz. Or is he not an authority for you?

              So this is a memoir. In them, the enemy is always mentally retarded and does not see the obvious, and the author is all in white.
              On Tsushima, the timing of the second strike on Pearl Harbor was analyzed. In general, the Japanese would have to sit down in the dark.
              And before that - to strike at the target with the already deployed air defense. Let me remind you that the first blow cost the Japanese 55 downed and decommissioned vehicles and 55 crew members. Further losses were extremely undesirable - almost all experienced IJN deck pilots were on board Kido Butai, and the work of the AUG was scheduled for six months in advance. Pearl Harbor was just one of the targets.
              So the rejection of the second strike from the Japanese side was justified.
            2. Elturisto
              Elturisto 2 February 2021 10: 54
              -1
              And that there was no fuel in California. The Japanese carried fuel from Indonesia throughout the war :) That is, transport logistics for the Japs is not an Achilles heel :). How old are you an expert ...
              1. shinobi
                shinobi 2 February 2021 12: 22
                0
                The time it would take. Open the map and see where is California and where is Hawaii. And where, in this case, it is easier to keep the naval bases. Yankee Harbor has been equipping and filling for 12 years. In other things, as I said, History does not like the subjugal mood. Those things are past, and thank God. God forbid repeating. Was Yamato good or so-so, we will never know.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 1 February 2021 11: 07
          0
          Quote: shinobi
          Destroy Japanese aircraft fuel depots

          P-X reserves are two to three days of production in the United States. Old tankers can be used as temporary warehouses - tested by the Japanese. smile
          And in 1942 in Pearl Harbor, Red Hill Storage will enter the underground storage and the problem will disappear.
          Quote: shinobi
          and aircraft carriers in the port at the piers

          Two. Out of six. For "Aunt Sarah" had an enviable intuition and hid in the Metropolis in front of a big kipish. smile
          Quote: shinobi
          the war in the pacific ended before it began.

          Nothing would change. EMNIP, Yamamoto complained about Japanese politicians that they did not understand the war with the United States: victory in it is possible only in one case - when the forces of Japan are in Washington.

          The loss of the line forces of the Pacific Fleet and the AB pair will only force the USN to more strictly adhere to the principles of the first stage of the pre-war plan (concentration of forces, strikes on secondary points of the Perimeter, unlimited submarine warfare) - until the arrival of post-Washington LKs and Essekes. And then the second stage will begin - and the TF steam rink will roll to Japan.
          1. shinobi
            shinobi 2 February 2021 02: 06
            0
            I agree. But this would take from 3 to 9 months of restoration measures. Japanese would have had time to gain a foothold on the islands and the face of the war would have been completely different
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 2 February 2021 10: 41
              0
              Quote: shinobi
              I agree. But this would take from 3 to 9 months of restoration measures. Japanese would have had time to gain a foothold on the islands and the face of the war would have been completely different

              There would be nothing else. The only way the Americans can go on the offensive before 1943 is if the IJN follows the example of the High Seas Fleet at Scapa Flow. smile
              In all other options, the general offensive will begin only after achieving superiority over the enemy. That is, the Japanese in any case have a relatively calm year and a half.
              1. shinobi
                shinobi 2 February 2021 12: 26
                0
                Uh, if they had access to the necessary resources of Japan, from which the Americans cut them off by imposing embargoes and sanctions. And here we return to the beginning, which is actually why the whole kipish began.
    2. Kwas
      Kwas 29 January 2021 17: 41
      0
      At the same time, it is surprising that the same Yamamoto did not force the general battle in 1942, when the Japanese were stronger.
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 18: 59
        +1
        Quote: Kwas
        At the same time, it is surprising that the same Yamamoto did not force the general battle in 1942, when the Japanese were stronger.

        He forced it ...
        It turned out to be Midway. :)
  • Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 29 January 2021 14: 22
    0
    You cannot compare the circulation of different ships at different speeds.
    If Yamato has a circulation at 26 knots of 600 meters, then what will it be for Litorrio also at 26 knots.
    1. Santa Fe
      29 January 2021 22: 27
      +1
      Of course even more
      1. Macsen_wledig
        Macsen_wledig 30 January 2021 11: 04
        0
        Quote: Santa Fe
        Of course even more

        Are there any numbers?
  • yehat2
    yehat2 29 January 2021 15: 40
    +1
    Quote: Atlant-1164
    because the command was unable to competently dispose of its capabilities

    Yamato had 2 chances to change the outcome of the naval battle, causing serious damage to the American fleet, but both times the Japanese commanders chose caution, not courage.
    And the second point - for some reason, the Yamato did not provide for shells for firing at weakly armored targets like cruisers, which is why several of his hits were ineffective.
    1. Macsen_wledig
      Macsen_wledig 29 January 2021 16: 23
      +1
      Quote: yehat2
      And the second point - for some reason, the Yamato did not provide for shells for firing at weakly armored targets like cruisers, which is why several of his hits were ineffective.

      Because the Yamato was specialized for fighting the LK.
      For everything else, there was an escort.
  • yehat2
    yehat2 29 January 2021 15: 42
    +2
    Quote: Victor Leningradets
    In general, if we compare these two ships, then the Soviet Union is worse in all respects.

    the USSR had very little experience in building such ships.
    But you are very wrong about all the indicators. The Soviet Union had better deck armor and a number of other elements. Partly due to higher quality alloys.
    1. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 2 February 2021 13: 40
      0
      Alas!
      Decks and other thin sheets were made with BC armor (without cementation). Up to a thickness of 150 mm, in principle, it corresponded to the old Krupp's cemented armor, but was unnecessarily fragile. This, plus a violation of the technology, led to the fact that up to a third of the serial armor was rejected upon acceptance. As for the cemented armor of large thicknesses, the production of rolled plates of satisfactory quality has not been mastered. In this regard, the question was raised of replacing it with a cast one, which promised significant cost savings, acceleration of the production process and a solution to the problem of manufacturing plates of complex shapes. the price for this was the lower durability of the cast armor (by about 15%). In retrospect, this proposal should be recognized as rational, despite the growth in the mass of bookings, but at that time it was rejected.
      The reservation system itself was vicious, which included huge spaces protected by "anti-explosive" armor, which did not allow to achieve reliable protection of the vital parts of the ship.
  • Lesnik982
    Lesnik982 29 January 2021 16: 07
    0
    "Yamato" is the clearest proof that in a total protracted war no single decisions, even the most unique ones, solve anything.
  • Metallurg_2
    Metallurg_2 29 January 2021 19: 39
    0
    How many wolf do not feed, and the elephant more

    You can also: "How many wolves do not feed - but the elephant is still thicker."
  • Turist1996
    Turist1996 31 January 2021 17: 04
    +1
    As usual, I recognize our Oleg Kaptsov by the title "Singing to the Glory of Battleships"! laughing
    The titles of this author are given out with their heads, as well as Evgeny Damantseva.
    Oleg, a question on this topic:
    The ratio of the displacement and volume of a parallelepiped, whose sides are set by the length, width and draft of the ship. The higher the value, the better the agility.

    It turns out that in this regard, a river barge for bulk cargo (such as sand and gravel), which is pushed by RTSki, is almost ideal?
    1. Turist1996
      Turist1996 31 January 2021 17: 06
      0
      Well, I generally keep quiet about the famous Popovka ..
  • yehat2
    yehat2 2 February 2021 13: 59
    +1
    Quote: Victor Leningradets
    The booking system itself was vicious
    It seems to me that the main mistake of Soviet battleships is a megaplane from scratch. It was impossible to start such a large series without creating something simpler.
    It seems to me that it was necessary to follow in the footsteps of the Republic of Ingushetia and first order a couple of ships of a moderate project, which would simply be reliably and quickly built and simply transport the guns at the required speed without any unnecessary pretensions - something like a French cutwork or English kingjorzh5 or modernized old Japanese LKs. And only the second wave was to launch a series of Soviet Unions with adjustments to the process. Then at least something, yes. And so they swung at a titanic result and got nothing.