Should Russia buy MZKT

MZKT-79221. Source: autoreview.ru

Belarusian pearl

On July 23, 1954, a Special Design Bureau was formed in the Byelorussian SSR on the basis of the Minsk Automobile Plant. Legendary Boris Lvovich Shaposhnik supervised the development. In the shortest possible time, it turned out to create the most complex strategic vehicle MAZ-535. The design bureau managed to do this in just five years - 1954-1959. Yes, readers will forgive me, but here it is impossible not to draw parallels with the modern Russian development "Platform-O", which KamAZ has not been able to bring to mind for more than ten years. More recently, an electric rocket ship, designed to destroy the Belarusian monopoly in special wheeled chassis, began to be developed anew. In the Soviet Union, a heavy car was created practically from scratch in just five years. Undoubtedly, the MAZ-535 had a bunch of shortcomings - the short life of the V-2 tank diesel engine, the low reliability of key components, and high oil and fuel consumption. But it was a real rocket carrier that the army demanded. Later, the car was upgraded to a tank tractor and production was transferred to a backup plant in Kurgan. What problems are faced by modern engineers, who openly delay the development of the "Platform-O" project? This question remains rhetorical.

The most successful development of the Special Bureau of the Minsk Automobile Plant was, of course, the two-cab MAZ-543, which is still produced in various variations! But the technique could be considered successful for the first forty to fifty years. This year, in all respects, the obsolete car will turn 64 years old. Few military developments can boast such a long history... Now the classic Volat MAZ is exported mainly to Russia, it is used as a platform for the Smerch, Tornado-S MLRS, the Bereg artillery complex and the S-300PS air defense system. The Russian army has to buy ancient chassis simply because Belarusians do not want to offer anything else in this segment.

MZKT-7930 is not particularly in demand at home. Only as a carrier of "Polonez".
Source: autoreview.ru

The successor of the 543rd was supposed to be the MZKT-7930, but the car became only its more modern analogue, produced in parallel. Now chassis 7930 can be seen in the operational-tactical Iskander. The Belarusians have adopted this vehicle as a carrier of the Polonez rocket launcher. By the way, there are no more such vehicles in the Belarusian army. As well as missing in service with the MZKT-79221 - huge sixteen-wheeled carriers of Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles. Now this unique product is exported exclusively to Russia, however, nowhere else are such monsters in demand. The eight-axle and eight-hundred-horsepower Volat is capable of carrying up to 80 tons, while consuming about 300 liters of fuel per 100 km - like several combat tanks!

The Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant has produced about 67 thousand vehicles over 27 years of operation, more than three quarters of which were exported to other countries or to the republics of the USSR. Currently, the situation has not fundamentally changed. In other years, up to 68% of all products were purchased by the Russian armed forces, some went to third countries, and only 14% went to Belarus. At the same time, the production range includes not only special wheeled chassis, but also ordinary trucks MZKT-600103, which the RF Ministry of Defense will never purchase. True, the military of Belarus is not in a hurry with purchases - only the baby MZKT-500200 (analogue of the GAZ-66) was accepted into the border troops for supply. As a result, a unique enterprise has grown up in Minsk, oriented almost entirely towards export. In this case, the main buyer is the union state, which provides the lion's share of the proceeds. Maybe it would be much more logical to buy the MZKT from Alexander Lukashenko for the personal needs of the Russian army?

MZKT is not for sale!

Ten years ago, the Russian defense-industrial complex was going through a stage of consolidation of efforts. Large clusters dealing with strategic products were formed. A country that considers itself not only a regional leader, but also one of the actors in a multipolar world, is simply obliged to provide itself with a strategic weapons yourself. In this regard, MZKT clearly dropped out of the concept. The mobility of nuclear weapons has depended and still depends on the supply of products from a foreign plant. Since 2011, Dmitry Medvedev has been in unsuccessful negotiations with the Belarusian leadership on the sale of 100% of the plant's shares, or at least a controlling stake. The situation in the negotiation process was seriously aggravated by the Ukrainian history, when Russia was practically left without a whole complex of imported units. This paralyzed the domestic helicopter and shipbuilding industry for some time. Analysts in the Kremlin watched with dismay at Minsk's flirtation with foreign partners in the military-technical sphere. Also, no one canceled their anti-Russian Maidan in Belarus, the losses from which for the domestic military-industrial complex would be much larger than the Ukrainian ones. Lukashenka felt this subtly and constantly evaded the sale of the wheel tractor plant. In 2016, Dmitry Medvedev at the "Motovilikhinskiye Zavody" in Perm said in his hearts:

They sold us this MZKT for three years, but we did not agree on anything. They don’t want to sell, we don’t need to, we will establish production at KAMAZ.

Now Alexander Lukashenko has a complicated relationship with the workers of the MZKT. Photo: Nikolai Petrov / BELTA POOL / EPA-EFE

The plans were to merge factories in Naberezhnye Chelny and Minsk into one mega-holding. According to the most popular legend, Lukashenka then demanded a gigantic $ 3 billion for the Minsk plant or a controlling stake in Bashneft worth 330 million rubles. In an interview in 2016, the Belarusian leader mentioned Russian interest in four enterprises of the military-industrial complex at once and offered Moscow something similar to barter:

I say: well, you have an interest in these enterprises, we have an interest in oil production. We could extract 7-8 million tons from you.

Moscow did not even respond to such a "tempting" offer.

Finding an exit

After the actual failure of negotiations with Belarus, analysts predicted only 5-6 years for Russia to develop its MZKT-79221 missile carrier. Of course, it is very expensive and difficult to create from scratch, it is much cheaper to purchase finished products. It's 2021, but there is no information about the development of the Platform-O family, not to mention the replacement of the Minsk chassis in the regular troops. The only hope is for the cars of the Bryansk Automobile Plant, but they have so far begun to re-equip the air defense equipment of the Almaz-Antey concern.

The obsolete Volat (actually MAZ-543) is still being bought by Russia. Source: autoreview.ru

A unique situation has now emerged at the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant. First, a strong design staff has been formed, tempered by decades of developing sophisticated technology. The whole Institute of Mechanics and Reliability of Machines of the National Academy of Science of Belarus works for the needs of the enterprise. This, by the way, is worth learning in the Russian military-industrial complex. Secondly, the headquarters of MZKT managers are doing their best to diversify the production range. So, for example, a terminal tractor MZKT-730240 appears to work in ports. There are several models of armored cars in development that are not intended for Russia at all - the Belarusians are trying to get away from Russian dependence. And everything would be fine, but Alexander Lukashenko frankly spoils the story. Now he has actually driven the country into international isolation, leaving only Russia and China among partners. Why not take advantage of the situation now and make Minsk an offer that it cannot refuse? It's high time, especially since Lukashenka simply has no room for maneuver - he certainly won't dare to ask an oil company in exchange for MZKT. However, this scheme has many complications.

It was not completely clear in 2011, and five years later, how can you buy a military-industrial complex located abroad? Even on the territory of a still friendly state. Technically, everything is simple - I gave the money, and the MZKT, according to the documents, is in Russian ownership. But this is not the Mistrale helicopter carrier, it cannot be moored in the port. Where are the guarantees that the new government, who replaced Lukashenka, or even he himself will not nationalize the plant? The example of Opel, owned by General Motors, and which the Germans seized at the beginning of World War II, does not exclude such a development of events. Yes, after the war it was returned to its owners, but 160 Opel Blitz medium-duty trucks managed to serve the Wehrmacht gloriously. Therefore, the purchase of MZKT for the needs of the Russian Ministry of Defense initially looked like a gamble. Unless, of course, Moscow's plans were to slowly move the entire plant to Naberezhnye Chelny together with the design headquarters.

There is only one thing left - to develop our own production of special wheeled chassis, to educate designers, engineers and technologists of the appropriate level. If this is in principle feasible, then MZKT can only sympathize - the revival of the Russian "Platform-O" in the correct execution will actually kill the Minsk plant. Or, at best, it will turn into a small-scale subsidized atelier carrying out rare orders for exotic heavy trucks.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

The design bureau managed to do this in just five years

at KamAZ they have not been able to finish it for more than ten years.

Feel the difference !

[nsm1]

So everywhere.
Our defense is on a leftover principle.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: nsm1

Our defense is on a leftover principle.

Who told you such nonsense?

[nsm1]

For the third time I am writing here - the Omsk plant of Baranov - an aircraft engine repairman receives from 15 thousand rubles.
Repair engineer at OGM - from 17 thous.
This is from hh.ru, do not believe it, look for yourself.
This directly affects the timing.
The worst work, the convicted, the sick.
Of course, on TV and in speeches like you it is not so, but in real life, alas and ah.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: nsm1

For the third time I am writing here - the Omsk plant of Baranov - an aircraft engine repairman receives from 15 thousand rubles.

so this PLANT pays
Not MO. They only transfer money, and the plant itself decides how much and to whom to pay

Repair engineer at OGM - from 17 thous.

In what rank is this engineer and in what HF ​​does he serve?

[nsm1]

What difference does it make who pays?
What matters is how much the employee gets.

Quote: Lipchanin

In what rank is this engineer and in what HF ​​does he serve?

It's five!!!
Who are you in life?
Journalist?
Absolutely not that they did not work, you have nothing to do with production.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: nsm1

What matters is how much the employee gets.

Whose employee?

Who are you in life?

Why are you interested in?

Absolutely not that they did not work, you have nothing to do with production.

Worked a lot
But we are talking about

Our defense is on a leftover principle.

What does MO have to do with wages at the plant?

[nsm1]

What is the attitude of the Ministry of Defense to the defense industry?
Has, but only as a customer.
And no, you never worked, that's for sure, otherwise there would be no questions that are not stupid, generally not in the subject.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: nsm1

What is the attitude of the Ministry of Defense to the defense industry?

Who pays the defense industry for an order?

Has, but only as a customer.

This means that MO pays for the order

And no, you never worked, that's for sure

He worked more than you and it was in the defense industry

, not at all in the subject.

And what did I write about this topic?

Our defense is on a leftover principle.

[nsm1]

What did you write off topic?
Yes, almost everything!
To explain this whole article to you, you need to write about the fact that they do not serve in the defense industry, but work for hire, about the structure, salaries, etc. etc.
I haven’t been hired for this, so I’m finishing with you.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: nsm1

that they do not serve in the defense industry, but work for hire,

That is precisely the money for its existence it receives from the MO, since it is the MO that places its orders there.
And poetmou well in any way it can not exist "on the residual principle"
Who is the remainder of?

I finish with you

The finest morning news

[antivirus]

this is for beginners - further cheating for the experience - after the conversation and so on, checking for professional fitness and .. and .. dedication. seniority is harm. awards. more and more complicated. "overregulated payroll" leads to very tricky schemes of additional payments

[Nick Casey]

The main sums end up in the pockets of intermediaries. I mean those who stand between the MO and the worker. And this is a pretty good sandwich or even a hamburger, from all kinds of holdings that don't produce anything to effective managers.

[antivirus]

I agree - they bear the burden of tolerance and transparency. strictly according to ISO9001.
if you pay a lot to ordinary specialists, the partners will refuse the status of a "country with a market economy"

[Old tanker]

The fact of the matter is that the Defense Ministry pays for the final product of a defense enterprise. And with the arrival of Shoigu, he tries to pay as little as possible. The military representatives remove entire articles from the final budget. Often it turns out that the company surrenders its products at a loss, and in order to pay salaries, it has to take loans. And this often leads to non-payment of salaries on time. And there is no question of high salaries. And this is just a small fraction of the financial problems.
For those who decide to throw slippers: my wife is an accountant at a defense plant.

[zenion]

Old tanker. In the early 60s, he worked on a mailbox. From the military there was a representative of the customer. No more military. The Army paid. For some product they did not fulfill the plan and requirements, no one received an award and the like. A month later, everything was done as the customer wanted, additional payments to each bonus, engineers. So much money came in that the factory started building houses for workers.

[Old tanker]

Well, you would still remember the times of state-owned factories under the tsar-father.
Times are not the same now and the economy is completely different.

[zenion]

So the Great Patriotic War was unfair. Hitler will come to order, will he restore it?

[gsev]

Quote: Old Tankman

Times are not the same now and the economy is completely different.

The times under Stalin, Yeltsin and Putin do not differ much. Always, in order to achieve more efficiency from a subordinate, he needs to be morally and financially stimulated. Stalin understood that only foreign capitalists could take his life, from whom he would not be saved by great humiliation or the country's high defense capability. Before the war, a Stakhanovite worker who raised productivity several times received a salary worthy of the result. Therefore Gudov I.I. I worked for two designers, three technologists, a storekeeper, a purchasing manager for equipment, and probably one and a half or two milling operators. He managed to find in the warehouse an unimplemented rotary table bought from abroad, figured out its principle of operation, equipped his milling machine with this device and increased productivity several times. But I suppose his salary was higher than that of the director of his plant and his minister. And now at the Moscow aviation plant there is only one designer for the repair and maintenance of machine tools of the entire plant on which the selection of components hangs, their integration into the machine and the design of all machine tools. Instead, he is instructed by half a dozen higher-paid bosses. Therefore, there are problems with the development of serial production of new equipment under Putin and their absence under Stalin. Foreign CNC machines, when used at modern aircraft factories in Russia, are known to give less accuracy than special Soviet machine tools and do not allow to maintain the tolerances that aircraft designers are used to setting, although their requirements are not as stringent as in the USA, Europe and Japan. Yeltsin saw the communists and "red directors" as his enemy, so his party spread rot industry as much as it could. The siloviki under Putin are also unwilling to share power and influence in favor of production.

[Martian]

Shoigu needs money for villas and women generals !!! Do you feel sorry for the last crumbs to give to the golden toilets?

[Popov I.P.]

Don't be nonsense. What kind of women were generals under Shoigu? Throughout the history of the USSR Armed Forces and the RF Armed Forces, only 2 women received the military rank of "Major General": V.V. Tereshkova (cosmonaut, retired for a long time) and E.G. Knyazeva. (Deputy Head of the Military University of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for educational and scientific work, received the title under AE Serdyukov, probably in reserve, since 1958). Do not confuse military ranks and class ranks of the state civil service. Under Shoigu, the number of women in the central apparatus of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation decreased three times. Go to the Federal Tax Service of the Russian Federation, Rospotrebnadzor, Rostekhnadzor, Rosselkhoznadzor and other supervisors, there are many more women in different uniforms and with shoulder straps than in the RF Ministry of Defense, but this does not mean that they are generals or colonels.

[nerovnayadoroga]

OGM department of the chief mechanic, 15 thousand rubles, a little more than $ 100, it is not the plant that decides, the OWNER of this plant with a handful of shareholders, sometimes !!!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: nerovnayadoroga

OGM department of the chief mechanic, 15 thousand rubles, a little more than $ 100, it is not the plant that decides, the OWNER of this plant with a handful of shareholders, sometimes !!!

The owner of this plant is the Russian Federation .... what did you want to say next?

[gsev]

Quote: Lara Croft

The owner of this plant is the Russian Federation .... what did you want to say next?

When the Bolsheviks tried to simply introduce workers' control at the enterprises, the directors and owners most often abandoned production, waiting, according to Ryabushinsky, "when the bony hand of starvation" would pacify the rebellious slave. And Ilyich and his comrades had to nationalize industry.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: gsev

When the Bolsheviks tried to simply introduce workers' control at the enterprises, the directors and owners most often abandoned production, waiting, according to Ryabushinsky, "when the bony hand of starvation" would pacify the rebellious slave. And Ilyich and his comrades had to nationalize industry.

If you are quoting, then you have read the relevant literature for this "+", the very knowledge of the history of the CPSU (b) is fragmentary (probably to my shame, since this is the history of my country) ...

[gsev]

Quote: Lara Croft

If you quote

To be honest, the quote is contrived. Ryabushinsky said something like that on a slightly different occasion and during the reign of Kerensky. This is just a school history textbook with careful reading and comprehension. It is simply impossible to manage an enterprise a little without completely keeping it under control and from outside. The strength of management in Europe lies in the correct distribution of powers. In Russia, power often falls to those who are unable to use it. The current system has proven its perniciousness since 1991 compared to the Bolshevik, but no one knows how to change it.

[Great Mike]

They know, but they don’t want to or can’t...

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Lipchanin

so this PLANT pays
Not MO. They only transfer money, and the plant itself decides how much and to whom to pay

Well, you are so stubborn Lipchanin (Sergey), the person wanted to say that the hard worker on the "mailbox" no one and most of the employees work there under civil law contracts, respectively, they receive d / s from the moment of signing the Act on the work performed, all profits are accumulated on the salary of the administration and the director of the enterprise .. . from here and the inverted sensors at the enterprise "ROSCOSMOSA" ...

In what rank is this engineer and in what HF ​​does he serve?

You better not write this at all ...

[evgen1221]

Assembler of aerospace vehicles-us $ 1500 per month, RF $ 350 per month NASA director $ 14500 per month, Roscosmos director $ 97500 per month

[mister-red]

Quote: evgen1221

Director of Roskosmos $ 97500 per month

The salary of the head of Roskosmos Dmitry Rogozin is 29,5 million rubles a year (460 thousand dollars). This is a year. It turns out $ 38 thousand per month
This is a lot, but still you don't need to lie.

[evgen1221]

I apologize for the misinformation - are you satisfied with the order of numbers?

[Flooding]

And you are not confused by this question

Quote: evgen1221

I apologize for the misinformation - are you satisfied with the order of numbers?

The figures you quoted do not stand up to criticism.
What does "digit order" mean?
+/- 1000%?

Quote: evgen1221

Assembler of aerospace vehicles-usa 1500 $ month,

Did you mean the garbage collector?

[Non liberoid Russian]

lies alone no longer inspire confidence in the author of the opus. like everything else

[mister-red]

Quote: evgen1221

I apologize for the misinformation - are you satisfied with the order of numbers?

I'm not from Russia, no matter how my business.

[Bolt cutter]

Assembler of aerospace vehicles-usa 1500 $ month,

At the checkout of the supermarket there they pay about the same, that is, a little. The scavenger is already more than 2 thousand. But they don't cry too much and everything works / flies for them as it should.

[gsev]

Quote: evgen1221

Assembler of aerospace vehicles-usa 1500 $ per month

An intelligent electrician in Austria is about 3000-4000 Euro, a guard in a refugee camp is about 1500 Euro.

[EvilLion]

For that kind of money, a tire collector won't work here.

[A1845]

Quote: nsm1

an aircraft engine repairman receives from 15 thous.

bicycle courier earns more
a shame

[gsev]

Quote: A1845

bicycle courier earns more

A courier from Kyrgyzstan for delivering pizza has about 50 rubles in the Moscow region. designer for machine tools and tooling at an aircraft plant in Moscow, 000 thousand less. It is this imbalance that degrades the industry. In early 10, Uzbek machine operators in South Korea were paid about $ 2000 a month.

[pvs512]

do not confuse salary and total salary. The bonus is usually 100% of the salary, if not screwed up.

[Far B]

And we have everything according to the residual principle. Except for yachts and palaces. By the way, against the background of everything else, our defense industry is still holding on. Well, how's it going ...

[nsm1]

The oil industry is more or less holding on, Gazprom ...
And mechanical engineering is out (not oil)

[Far B]

The oil industry is more or less holding on, Gazprom

Because just with an eye on the construction of palaces and yachts Well this is a national priority!

[zenion]

So they would write - they hold on to it, but the hand slips. Already two will not hold out.

[Thrifty]

Russia, at least in the defense industry, should be a self-sufficient country. To create a new platform on the basis of BAZ, it will be cheaper and work for your workers is also a necessary thing.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Thrifty

Russia, at least in the defense industry, should be a self-sufficient country. On the basis of BAZ, create a new platform, cheaper ...

Go already to start doing something in the implementation of the unification of Russia and Belarus ...

Should Russia buy MZKT

[Doccor18]

Go

Or
(ocher)

[tihonmarine]

Quote from Uncle Lee

The design bureau managed to do this in just five years

at KamAZ they have not been able to finish it for more than ten years.

Feel the difference !

I just want to say "The party said it is necessary, the people answered - YES!"
How many unique solutions have been implemented, not only MZKT in five years. Satovsky created a walking excavator in 8 months with his team in 1948. And a lot of things were created from scratch and in a short time. Now this is the most pressing task, which is difficult to implement.

[JD1979]

And why bring to mind, if at the very process you can earn))) 10 years a very good cow milked.

Quote from Uncle Lee

Feel the difference !

And you feel the difference between personal responsibility then and - "well, I didn’t shmogla", let's try again, now)))
PS: Headhunting? don't know !! ))) and you won’t know, while the designers will receive 15-20 and the managers for the layout of the kerchief during working hours for 120. If there were normal salaries in the design bureau, MZKT would have moved to Russia long ago, but you have what you have.

[zenion]

Mark Twain wrote about congressmen who complained about low salaries and took bribes, that low salaries were not a reason to steal. Just imagine a surgeon receiving a small salary. Surgery to remove the appendix. I cut my stomach and that's it, I have already worked for my salary. You will sew it up yourself, or you will pay for everything. If you pay, we'll cut it out and sew the belly. But such things don't work in the defense industry.

[gsev]

Quote: zenion

If you pay, we'll cut it out and sew up the belly. But such things don't work in the defense industry.

In Russia, a smart and beautiful girl is still striving for a medical institute or a medical school. Therefore, in medicine, low salaries are successfully passed. But few people go to engineers. When the owner needs to find an engineer for the modernization of equipment in 5 days, so as not to lose a contract for 5 million, he becomes more accommodating and is ready to pay a daily European salary or at least a third of it.

[MALUTA_2]

On Kamaz, only loot can be washed.

[Sancho_SP]

It makes no sense to buy it yourself. It won't take long to nationalize it back.

Production is always better at home than not at home.

[Dread]

You have to buy while you don't have your own!
And at the same time -
develop the development and production of special wheeled chassis, educate designers, engineers and technologists of the appropriate level. No other is given! "Time is against us."

[bayard]

We must return to the idea of ​​creating a joint mega-holding with a controlling stake in Russia.
That is, you have to pay extra.
And work at two sites in cooperation.
And in general, it is necessary to recreate a single state ... only this is apparently a task for a completely different government ...

[nnm]

Quite right. Our banks, Yandex services, 1C in Ukraine were banned in 1 day. And the plant does not even need to be nationalized - to impose duties on components, put pressure on internal subcontractors and that's it, it turns out that it will stand up.
Definitely, we need domestic production both from the point of view of security and from the point of development of our own economy.

[zenion]

If your own, then the plant needs to be built from scratch in the Urals.

[Alexga]

With banks, you are not entirely right, only in Kiev there are about 30 branches of the subsidiary bank of Sberbank of the Russian Federation.

[nnm]

You are both right and wrong. This is no longer a bank, but a feeder for the impudent Ukraine. Sberbank has been trying to sell its daughter since 2017, and the NBU has rejected all buyers' applications over and over again. At the same time, the daughter is fined hundreds of millions of rubles for "risky investments." And it turns out - we won't let you work, we won't let you sell, but leave everything to us for free and go in all four directions.

[Alexga]

Probably, this suits Gref. Although, the owner of Sberbank is already the Government of the Russian Federation.

[nnm]

Well, it's better we finance the Ukrainian government, in their opinion, and not open branches in Crimea.

[Stas157]

Quote: Sancho_SP

It makes no sense to buy it yourself. It won't take long to nationalize it back.

But the Chinese are buying. And they transfer technologies to their country (they begin to produce the same on the tracing paper). It's cheaper and easier than developing from scratch.

[zenion]

Do they produce it at their factories, or only from paper? Exactly how the bridge to the Crimea was built?

[Sancho_SP]

So technology is buying or land, walls and workers?

Russia has both capacities and engineers. But there is no know-how on the MZKT. And if there are any little things, they will come to Russia with the workers.

[gsev]

Quote: Stas157

But the Chinese are buying.

In the PRC, this is a very costly and laborious process. The Tai'an company masters the production of frequency converters, hires Korean development specialists. But this production survives only thanks to the will of the leaders of the coal industry who finance scientific and technical developments at the cost of the poverty of the miners. In the PRC, a talented design engineer is also in short supply. But QMA relies on its own forces, trying, unlike Tai'an, to buy Chinese components instead of foreign ones. Therefore, the line of converters is wider and the prices are lower. And the QMA software, when determining the temperature in the power modules, gives the same error with the Tai'an converters.

[Lech from Android.]

Maybe it would be much more logical to buy the MZKT from Alexander Lukashenko for the personal needs of the Russian army?

As always, political risks are dangerous here ... the authorities in Belarus may suddenly change and the work of the MZKT, if somehow bought by Russia, may be blocked by the new authorities and nothing can be done about it ... foreign territory.
Burned once in Ukraine ... it's not worth repeating old mistakes again.
Therefore, we need to build our factories in the center of Russia ... preferably in places where it is necessary to develop remote territories with all the accompanying infrastructure, a railway, housing, servants and other other things ... just like that. You need to invest in the development of your own country and not someone else's.

[carstorm 11]

Those. to make production gold initially?) This is a military-industrial complex. A vacuum cleaner of state funds without such gigantic construction projects. I understand your point, but there are other important things to be considered, like buying such an object in Belarus is a waste of money. It is necessary to take away intellectual assets there. And only them.

[Lech from Android.]

But there are other important things to be considered. Like buying a similar object in Belarus is a waste of money. It is necessary to take away intellectual assets there. And only them.

What will intellectual assets give you without means of production?
Production on its territory means jobs, taxes, a guarantee of employment for the population and peace of mind for the authorities from riots ... so you need to invest in your country if you do not want further riots and popular unrest, we already went through all this at the beginning of the last century.
I will never support the Russian government if it does not invest in the development of Russia's infrastructure, in the development of production, agriculture, science, education, etc. ... I am more concerned about the well-being of my country and not someone else's.

[carstorm 11]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't invest. But this must be done in objects that, at least in theory, are capable of making a profit. Nobody does this for the military-industrial complex. As for the intellectual property, this plant is not the most high-tech and I doubt very much that there is something so exclusive that it is impossible to repeat it in our factories. They are scratching at the platform. . and I'll see why. We went too far along the path of complete novelty. But if you add their design bureaus to this program, this will obviously speed things up.

[210ox]

Initially, we followed the path of what we do not have (do not produce). Hence the problems of this platform.

[D16]

Initially, we followed the path of what we do not have (do not produce).

Because there is no need to urgently produce what is produced in Belarus ourselves. The copy of the ancient tractor has no market prospects.

[210ox]

I disagree. Recent trends show that it is impossible to cooperate with foreign states and production in the military-industrial complex. And MZKT is actually a foreign enterprise.

[D16]

MZKT is actually a foreign enterprise.

I don’t deny it. But if the rearmament took place and new machines are not needed yet, then why duplicate the production of mammoth poop? You can safely start fine-tuning and organizing the production of a promising new generation machine. This is what Remdizel does.

[D16]

To accept for trial operation and organize serial production, these are two big differences. Moreover, the rearmament of the Strategic Missile Forces is already coming to an end and there is no particular need for new vehicles for the PGRK. They change missiles, not tractors. When the next stage will take place is unknown. At least while the treaty is in force. We have not heard anything about the "Platform" because it is not a priority. Even if MZKT stops working today, new tractors for the PGRK will not be needed soon. Therefore, there is no such ravine as with shipboard power plants and people have the opportunity to calmly bring the car to mind, organize production and further operation. All of the above is purely IMHO.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Production on its territory means jobs, taxes, a guarantee of employment for the population and peace of mind for the authorities from riots ... so you need to invest in your country if you do not want further riots and popular unrest, we already went through all this at the beginning of the last century.

This is what we should strive for. This includes the fight against sanctions

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Lech from Android.

.the power in Belarus may suddenly change and the work of the MZKT, if somehow bought by Russia, may be blocked by the new authorities and

Yes easily

Where are the guarantees that the new government that replaced Lukashenka, or even he himself, will not nationalize the plant?

[sgrabik]

MZKT to buy out for reasonable money and take it to Russia.

[Ros 56]

About mastering, you got excited. For example, we have some other sites from the former rather large factories with empty or half-empty workshops. There is water, there is heat, there is electricity / energy, people live, but they are strained with work.

[Alf]

Quote: Lech from Android.

It is necessary to invest in the development of your country and not someone else's.

Now Vadik237 will come running and popularly explain to all the dull ones that it is not profitable to produce anything in Russia, without mentioning whose efforts.

[gsev]

Quote: Lech from Android.

our factories in the center of Russia ... preferably in places where it is necessary to develop remote territories

How much will you give a specialist to move there from Moscow, Bombay, Shanghai or California? Even under Stalin, they were found only through repression and dispossession.

[stepset]

Quote: gsev

How much will you give a specialist to move there from Moscow, Bombay, Shanghai or California? Even under Stalin, they were found only through repression and dispossession.

The Chinese somehow manage without repression.
Money.
Dzhugashvili was just greedy. I didn't want to pay people money.
From this and such a deplorable result that was.
At the end of 1942 (just 10 years after the fake industrialization), the USSR buried itself in its technological limit. And if it were not for the supply of obscuration from the United States, starting in 1943 the Red Army would have had nothing to fight with.

[gsev]

Quote: stepet

I didn't want to pay people money.
From this and such a deplorable result that was.

The aircraft designer, worker Stakhanovite, and test pilot were better off than the Stalinist ministers, the people's commissars. Read the memoirs of Golovanov, how much he received as a civil aviation pilot and how much Stalin could offer him as a commander of an air regiment. Not everything is worth money. In Soviet times, a place on the market was worth a ruble, if no one collected money after 6 pm, but it was possible to sell 6 bouquets of gladioli at 3-5 rubles per bouquet. This is the weekly salary of an engineer per day. But then it was not something that is not prestigious, but humiliating.

[stepset]

Quote: gsev

Not everything is worth money.

In the USSR, then?
Yes, in the USSR it was still necessary to have access to special distributors.

Quote: gsev

But then it was not something that is not prestigious, but humiliating.

Not at all.
But it's risky.
They could easily have been jailed for parasitism and speculation.

[gsev]

Quote: stepet

But it's risky.

For what percentage of profits, according to Marx, a businessman will not be scared by the gallows? And the Soviet markets offered income 400% more than the salary of a Ukrainian worker.

[Sahalinets]

Well, of course, you shouldn't rely on Old Man, and who will be after him and how relations with Russia will be built there is completely unknown.
But the problem is not in the MZKT, but in our incompetence, nepotism and theft. We need to put things in order at home, and not rely on uncle. I would like to believe that after 2014, this simple thought has finally visited the inhabitants of the RF Ministry of Defense.

[Great Mike]

It was precisely because of the reasons you listed that dad was afraid of the merger of MAZ and KamAZ... he was afraid that MAZ would suffer the same fate as ZiL... And on their own they raised the production of buses and trolleybuses from “0”, and the production of combine harvesters.
They will give us the MZKT, I’m afraid it will meet the same fate as the KZKT.

[nsm1]

Unless, of course, Moscow's plans were to slowly transport the entire plant to Naberezhnye Chelny together with the design staff.

Yep, get a whole spy nest right by your side!
People with a clever look are carrying utter crap ...
Sometimes I think - maybe Stalin was right about something ...

There is only one thing left - to develop our own production of special wheeled chassis, to educate designers, engineers and technologists of the appropriate level.

And there are no other alternatives, there never was and never will be.
Only its.
It is highly desirable completely without imported components.

[gsev]

Quote: nsm1

Yep, get a whole spy nest right by your side!
People with a clever look are carrying utter crap ...

Such costs are inevitable when mastering other people's achievements or entering a foreign market. The Chinese sent me drawings of some products and a list of used components for a simple promise to carefully study the possibility of selling their products or certification in Russia. And sometimes they themselves imposed a list of the best firms producing components for certain types of products in order to convince them of the quality of the products offered. When the USSR tried to master the technology and techniques for designing Japanese CNC, a list of produced and designed microcircuits was sent to Japan, and then samples of circuits interesting for the Japanese. But due to the intrigues of the then KGB (games of secrecy), such information was not available to most CNC designers in the USSR.

[apro]

What is the article about ??? yes nothing ... pouring empty into empty.
There is no clear goal-setting in Moscow, but in Minsk there is, and the strength to move it.

[Lech from Android.]

but in Minsk there is. and the strength to move it.

And what are these powers? Do not list them ... not really Tikhanovskaya and her associates with the owners in Poland and Lithuania?

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

not really Tikhanovskaya and her associates with the owners?

Why do you need Lyokha ??? and what's the difference ... Belarus is a sovereign country. And this is recognized by the Russian Federation. Union state buried long ago by Moscow. There are no common goals. There is no future joint either. By and large, the two states are not connected in any way. A different economic structure. ideology.

[Lech from Android.]

Belarus is a sovereign country. And it is recognized by the Russian Federation. The union state has long been buried by Moscow. There are no common goals. There is no future joint either. By and large, the two states are not connected in any way. A different structure of the economy. Ideology.

There is a difference ... you are not enough stubborn Nazis in Ukraine ... you do not want to get the same in Belarus ... there is also a direct connection, these are family ties, economic, military ... even political. Of course, Belarus is a sovereign country like Poland for the United States and we absolutely do not need to break ties with Belarus ... but this does not mean that we have to fulfill all the whims of the Belarusian authorities for free ... you have to pay for everything.

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

a little you stubborn Nazis in Ukraine ... you do not want to get the same in Belarus.

What they successfully cope with in Moscow. They do everything that would be so.

Quote: Lech from Android.

We don't need to break ties with Belarus.

Yes??? what the Russians have been doing successfully and doing for the last 30 years ...

Quote: Lech from Android.

but this does not mean that we have to fulfill all the whims of the Belarusian authorities for free ... you have to pay for everything.

The golden words of the Russian patriot. All for the grandmother. Only feedback in this case is available. These words have been amusing me for many years. How the Russians fed. They feed ..... insert the necessary countries according to the situation. And did you try to feed? And the price is correct to install ... otherwise it turns out that apart from the babos, the Russians have nothing to offer. no general vector of development. no bright future. no safe present.

[Lech from Android.]

all for the money. only and feedback in this case is available. These words have been making me laugh for many years.

Well, you didn’t fall from the moon ... of course for the money ... you will have a lot of fun when you learn how the Chinese communists do business abroad ... all for the money and nothing else ... Russians learn well from their mistakes, unfortunately.

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Well, you didn't fall from the moon ... of course for the money

And if you haven't bought it for money yet. You don't owe anything. Until you have offered an adequate price. And there is no need to talk.

[Lech from Android.]

until they offered an adequate price. and there is nothing to talk about.

The stump is clear ... Luka wants to have a lot of things from Russia for free ... the beetle is good ... so they forgave him a lot ... it's time to end with such a friendship.

[apro]

Quote: Lech from Android.

it's time to end with such a friendship

We finished so long ago ... in 1991.

[vitvit123]

Those. there is a hope that the lard dollars that Luke owes, he will give back? In the near future ? A day, two, a month? ... will buy resources on the market and will pay customs for its trade (in the RF) to the RF budget ..?

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

Those. there is hope

Of course there is. We live in a state governed by the rule of law. If something goes wrong, you need to go to the magistrate's court.

[vitvit123]

When will they decide to sue without us ... my comment referred to the fact that Belarus does not live at the expense of the Russian Federation .... And if it doesn’t live, then where does the debt for the lard come from, that so wants the prices of resources at Russian prices? And so on .. they are square! Not a single outlet to the sea, not a single useful resource (besides peat), there is nothing to sell on the world market to make money (really for life), the world market is closed for it, etc. .. such a territory cannot be economically viable ..

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

my comment related to the fact that Belarus does not live at the expense of the Russian Federation.

This is the first comment on a Qo that opposes the mainstream opinion.

[vitvit123]

Honestly, I did not understand the idea of ​​your answer .. I have always argued that the territory called Belarus is not economically viable ... and all this is independence, this is unreal stupidity, the first opponent of integration with the Russian Federation is Luka .. such a power-hungry person that we will never part in the world with power .. I think that only on pain of death (real) he can give up power ..

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

I have always argued that the territory called Belarus is not economically viable ..

Quote: vitvit123

my comment referred to the fact that Belarus does not live at the expense of the Russian Federation ...

Then I do not understand.

[vitvit123]

As far as I understand, you wrote that the friendship for material wealth ended in 91 .. I disagree with you (it turns out) and say that the territory of Belarus exists partially (I don’t know exactly what percentage, but vital) at the expense of the Russian Federation. If the Russian Federation in one way or another did not subsidize the economy of Belarus, then it would no longer exist or it would be under a protectorate ...

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

If the Russian Federation in one way or another did not subsidize the economy of Belarus, then it would no longer exist or it would be under a protectorate ...

Once again, I don’t understand why the Russians are feeding Belarus ??? as you say ...

[vitvit123]

In the hope of someday to connect .., this time, well, and secondly, because they do not want to exacerbate the situation and release influence from the orbit, as it happened with the cover .. they do not want to connect by force, and it is not necessary, time goes by the future, there may be different alignments, political will ... well, this is my primitive thinking .. the people are one (I think the majority) and we should be together .. my mother-in-law is Belarusian, by the way .. though ... but where- well go.

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

Hoping to someday add ..,

That is, to buy Belarus? For a little bit ... but the Belarusians need it? Or the opinion of the Indians is not interested in the sheriff?

[vitvit123]

Well, the opinion of the people is very easy to direct any channel, so this is not a problem .. well, of course, the Belarusians will need it, when the gut is empty, the head immediately begins to understand who depends on whom ... and no one will buy it, no one is going to pay money for that .. there are two options: wait for the ruler of this territory who, for a warm forever secured life in the Russian Federation, agrees to join, or try through the Ukrainian scenario ... so you, I see, accentuate that they are independent etc. , but you understand that such territories (Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) do not have and will not have any independence, and if you don’t understand, then I am powerless ..

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

But you understand that such territories (Georgia, Armenia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.) do not and will not have any independence, and if you don’t understand, then I’m powerless ..

How so no ???? regularly send the Russian Federation on an erotic journey. And do not steal. Just independent from the Russian Federation. This is yes.

Quote: vitvit123

for a warm forever secured life in the Russian Federation,

That would not hurt the Russians either ..

[vitvit123]

Well, about erotic travel is not entirely correct, this is all thanks to the peaceful attitude of the Russian Federation .. well, all this has already happened in history, this is a transfusion from empty to empty. Where are they sending? Who sent whom with kryi? Here the true power is immediately visible, and you mean cheap provocations .. how Crimea will be taken away from us, then you will be right .. The Russian Federation can do whatever it wants with these territories, just why? ... you need to do what is appropriate. Just watch the story, everything is clearly shown who is where and in what roles ..

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

Who sent whom with kryi?

Of the listed stran.kto that Crimea recognized the territory of the Russian Federation ???
The Russian Federation does not have a clear plan of what to do in the post-Soviet space. And from this throwing. This is integration, then trade wars and import substitution. And so the last 30 years. Peacefulness is not necessary. Russian capitalists have only loot on their mind. And it decides. urapatriots ..

[vitvit123]

And Russia is asking for something recognition? What are you talking about ? Russia on the rights of the strong, on the rights of the owner did what she saw fit .... and just in case Russia does not ask for recognition! Loot is on everyone's mind and you too! .. that's the way a person is! But we have already left the topic ... do not get sick ...

[apro]

Quote: vitvit123

But we have already left the topic ... do not get sick ...

And you don't have to cough ..

[vitvit123]

By the way, about the cough ... I was vaccinated with a companion v, so if I don't "bark" you can safely vaccinate

[shahor]

Quote: vitvit123

if not "bark" you can safely vaccinate

Health to you. Don't bark. Write your memoirs - how I put on the crown.

[vitvit123]

How do I know whether it was screwed up or not? ... time will tell .. well, the fact that the satellite v does not die immediately from the vaccine is for sure. I have a lot of friends, a paranoid state manifests itself when it is mentioned about vaccination ...

[shahor]

Quote: vitvit123

that the territory called Belarus is not economically viable ...

You are wrong. It is not the territory of Belarus that is insolvent - the economic system built by dad is insolvent. Rather, the conserved absence of such.

[vitvit123]

There cannot be another, so they are one and the same ..

[sgrabik]

What nonsense you are talking about, Minsk now depends on Moscow much more than ever before.

[smart fellow]

It is quite logical that Lukashenka proposed to change the MZKT for oil. If the government changes in Belarus and nationalizes the plant, then the controlling stake can be taken away in return. So-so offer to sell a laying hen with golden eggs.

[Lipchanin]

Why not take advantage of the situation now and make Minsk an offer that it cannot refuse

It's tempting of course ...
But what the hell is not joking, maybe it will slip through

[Lech from Android.]

But what the hell is not joking, maybe it will slip through

Lukashenko will slip through if you put him on a hot frying pan with sizzling butter and potatoes.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Lukashenko will slip through if you put him on a hot frying pan with sizzling butter and potatoes.

Will press, he will sit down

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Lukashenko will slip through if you put him on a hot frying pan with sizzling butter and potatoes.

In five minutes there will be no oil, no potatoes, no frying pan, no gas on which it was heated. And there will be only AHL asking for the next frying pan as part of helping the fraternal people.

[NDR-791]

Will press, he will sit down
I just can't get it - why was Yanukovych thrown into an empty space and no one remembers? And the toad presses the same 3lyarda behind the MZKT? Well, at least according to the Chinese method as with Motor Sich? Documentation and engineers here, and let the plant work there. Knock up the country's leadership (whoever comes there) - will be left without orders, will receive a melon from the workers.
And by the way, yes, I confirm. At the Baranov plant, that's exactly what they get. I left there on free bread precisely because of salary. For a minute, a turner and a milling cutter of the 6th grade with a higher education in metalworking

[D16]

Why was Yanukovych thrown into the empty space and no one remembers?

Because no one threw any money. They just re-registered the debt, which at that time Ukraine was unable to repay. Only as they could not give it away, they cannot (now they don’t want to, since they were allowed to throw it in London.). Lukashenka’s debts will be the same. The Chinese in the history of Motor Sich also remained at a broken trough. They were also allowed to be thrown .

[NDR-791]

Because no one threw any money. They just re-registered the debt, which at that time Ukraine was unable to repay.
As far as I remember, it was not so. They promised 15 lards, managed to charge only 3. Then Janek unscrewed and the tranches were stopped.

[D16]

They promised 15. But this money also included old debts reissued in London. Because the Ukrainians were very surprised that there is a debt, but there is no money

[NDR-791]

Lukashenka’s debts will be the same.
He will not pay for debts.
from the article: According to the most popular legend, Lukashenko then demanded a giant $ 3 billion for the Minsk plant or a controlling stake in Bashneft
True, this is only according to legend Rather, the KAMAZ lobby pushed through the OCD, ours thought that the Urals and Kamaz were enough for competition, but all OCDs with us are money-sucking with unpredictable results. (or rather, with predictable - things are still there)

[D16]

but all okr we have is a money sucker with an unpredictable result. (or rather, with predictable - things are still there)

This is the case everywhere. In principle, it is not possible in another way. What we see is the tip of the iceberg. But nevertheless, the "Platform" was accepted for trial operation and while the preparation of serial production is underway, it is slowly brought to mind. As was the case with the Su57, for example. PGRKs are practically re-equipped, there is no need for the production of new complexes. Accordingly, there is no urgent need for the "Platform O". Here the Ministry of Defense acted quite logically. It makes no sense to buy MZKT, or kill, spoiling the relationship, copying their car. The production of an ancient tractor unit makes no commercial sense.

[gsev]

Quote: D16

The Chinese in the history of Motor Sich also remained at a broken trough.

It is difficult to check whether the Chinese are positive or negative. They are not going to revive the aircraft industry in Ukraine. They needed to voice their desire for certain contacts with leading designers who were able to calculate new equipment. If about five designers come to the PRC and create a Chinese school there, $ 3 will pay off. Now is not 000 and no one lets foreign intelligence officers communicate with designers in order to lure them to a foreign country under simple promises of investment.

[lelik613]

Of course it is, but at the expense of the debts of Belarus.

[Ryaruav]

even if you buy MZKT our managers will ruin all the work there

[rotmistr60]

This is backfired with the problems of the Union when production was scattered across the Union republics, and the collapse of the USSR was not expected. But what to say about what happened. Of course, the best option is your own production, which will require industrial space and high costs and specialists.

I say: well, you have an interest in these enterprises, we have an interest in oil production. We could extract 7-8 million tons from you.
Moscow did not even respond to such a "tempting" offer.

And what to answer to the one who considers himself the most cunning. It was only when it got hot for help that I ran to Russia.

[svp67]

Should Russia buy MZKT

Only in case of restoration of production in Kurgan and maximum localization. Forgive syabry.

[gsev]

Quote: svp67

Only in case of restoration of production in Kurgan

Lukashenko was able to preserve and develop the MZKT, Putin seemed to destroy the Kurgan plant. Old Man is simply afraid to entrust such an expensive toy to a friend.

[rocket757]

Should Russia buy MZKT

a couple of questions .... 1. Is there WHAT to buy something else and how much better it will be?
2. Is it worth changing the supplier and for whom ??? Will it be more reliable?

[Putnik119]

Stop dogging with the destroyers of the Crimean bridge, guys !. The article is shit. A tractor, even for an ICBM, is not an aircraft engine, not an ICBM itself! When the Ukrainians got crazy, everything was replaced in 5 years. No 30! It will be necessary, and the tractors will be replaced. At KAMAZ, they do it slowly, because there was no urgent need. Where is the hurry? Apparently, it has not yet pressed. It seems to me that syabry is not the same as Svidomye, to saw their factories in order to annoy Russia. But we need our own tractors. Not an emergency, but necessary. Most likely, promising products will be made for our tractors, the same Bryansk ones.

[gsev]

Quote: Putnik119

At KAMAZ, they do it slowly, because there was no urgent need.

Indeed, apparently the best production team in Russia for this profile is there. Even the Chinese are not able to compete with KAMAZ without loss for their state.

[Imper]

In my opinion, this is not a matter of a specific MZKT plant or the type of equipment, these tractors. In automotive engineering, in Russia, the problem is complex - our factories are based on an imported aggregate base: bridges, hydromechanical transmission, engines. Hand bridges in the army Urals. There are no heavy bridges of their own.
If we had our own auto components, we would solve the problem with tractors quickly. You cannot create the same GMF for one, two times, this is a serious job, what can I say about a motor-wheel.
p. from. it's better not even to think about buying MZKT.

[Sailor]

We need to join the plant together with the country!

[Nikolaevich I]

In Russia, the time has been "missed" again! There was an opportunity and there was time to radically "remake" the Bryansk Automobile Plant! But the Russian "maybe abroad (Belarus) will help us ..." prevented this!

[sgrabik]

In Russia, there is practically no clear strategic planning and constant control over the timely implementation of ambitious and critical plans and tasks for our entire state (Crimean bridge is a rare exception to the rule) and all those "effective" managers who are directly responsible for the timely implementation of the strategic tasks, are not competent and are not capable of anything, they are capable, well, except for cutting budget funds and stuffing their personal pockets !!! Isn't it time for us to return "Gos.plan" again ???

[DPN]

It is worth assembling Great Russia, otherwise we collect all the equipment from Western components, so Belarus has nothing to do with it. You have to work with your head, and not pray that sanctions are not imposed.

[agond]

A multi-axle car with a wheel arrangement of 16x16, was invented back in the days of the USSR, since the 16x16 scheme is very inconvenient for a vehicle (a dead-end branch of its development), except for China, anywhere in the world, and the use of an electric drive for the 16x16 scheme is fundamentally which will not change, so you need to turn from the wheels to a caterpillar, a narrow rubberized caterpillar half a row of 16-16 m long with 15 pairs of road wheels of which 5 front and 5 rear can rise, and 5 middle ones do not rise, will make it possible for a long caterpillar to turn around easily in place and it's just that the T-72 tank with 6 pairs of road wheels does it
And the electric drive must be developed.

[EvilLion]

Does someone sell us MZKT? The train has already left, we offered, now we will not buy.

[Andre___86]

One of the reasons for the non-marketability of the enterprise is fear of effective Russian managers and examples of bankrupt military-industrial complex plants in Russia. Many of us at the top dissuade the beacon from selling anything into Russian hands for this reason.

[Sergej1972]

In the Russian Federation, problematic military-industrial complex enterprises, which belonged to private owners, often go bankrupt in order for them to become part of the Rostec structure. And after bankruptcy, they continue to produce products, being part of a vertically organized structure, a state corporation.

[Sergej1972]

I have no words! The author does not understand the difference between a union republic and an autonomous republic that was part of the union? It was the Byelorussian SSR, not the Byelorussian ASSR! And if this is a typo, then it is also disrespectful to the readers. Such a blunder, and right at the beginning of the text.

[Olgovich]

But the first forty to fifty years could be considered a successful technique. This year, in all respects, the obsolete car will turn 64 years old. Few military developments can boast such a long history

What does "obsolete" mean?

This is not a car for daily operation, where low consumption and ecology in emissions are important, millionth mileage

This is the most reliable tractor, designed for small but intensive military use, which is what the army requires.

We need to build at home, it’s stupid to consider our plant in someone else’s territory.

[Putnik119]

“We need to build at home, it’s stupid to think of a plant in someone else’s territory.” - I agree with that. I do not agree with the organization of all components at home. For civilian technology, cooperation is important. The production of all theirs is very expensive due to the small series. But an ICBM carrier is something else entirely. This is not a potato truck. To do it, it is necessary to transfer all the drawings for the product that he will wear. And the military secrets cannot be trusted to the Belarusian "multi-vector" assholes. And not only them. Nobody can. This is nuclear weapons. In general, you need to make your own tractors. And they will be done, I'm sure. By the way, talks about "close integration" with Belarus have somehow died down. Did not notice? It seems that syabras are next for harvesting strawberries in Poland in droves.

[xomaNN]

With Minsk tractors it is necessary to act as in the situation with the Ukrainian ... engines. After 2014 in Kiev it was forbidden to supply to the Russian Federation from the Zaporozhye "Motor-Sich" and the Nikolaev "Zarya-Mashproekt". The decision was correct to make analogs in Russia. And to lure "Varangians" from these factories and design bureaus for good money and other "buns" to establish new production. So with a "long ruble" to lure key specialists from Minsk to the Russian Federation, and "industrial espionage" has not been canceled. Especially those. all the documentation and operating procedures are available in the Russian Federation.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: xomaNN

With Minsk tractors it is necessary to act as in the situation with the Ukrainian ... engines. After 2014, it was banned in Kiev to supply to the Russian Federation from the Zaporozhye Motor-Sich and the Nikolaev-based Zarya-Mashproekt. The decision was correct to make analogs in Russia. And to lure "Varangians" from these factories and design bureaus for good money and other "goodies" to establish a new production

Ne is how it was, savsem is so. ©
The decision to organize the production of VK-2500 was made long before the Maidan - as a result of long and fruitless negotiations with Boguslaev. For more than 10 years, this cunning man has been cutting out and profiting, consistently burying all options for cooperation in approvals - transfer of production, a joint venture, a Motor Sich branch in the Russian Federation. In the end, the Russian side got tired of this endless story - and in 2010 an official decision was made to organize the production of engines for helicopters on the basis of the KB-developer (JSC Klimov).
But at the same time, cooperation with Boguslaev was not interrupted - even after the Maidan, Motor Sich engines continued to go to the Russian Federation. Otherwise, one would have to admit that some of the hatched in 2014-2020. helicopters are kept in the air only by supernatural forces.

[xomaNN]

So yes, Boguslaev with "honest" dividing the shares of the plant and the KB turned out to be the owner of more than a controlling stake, in contrast to the hard workers. And the toad pressed him to sell more expensively. After dancing with Russia, they wanted to sell Motor Sich to China. BUT! now the owners of Ukraine from the United States have banned the sale. That's how MOTO-SICH hovered like a g .. o in the hole. Like a chumadan without a handle.

[Peaceful SEO]

What are the problems faced by modern engineers who openly delay the development of the "Platform-O" project?

There is only one problem - lack of motivation. Now, if for fraud the developers were threatened with moving to logging work with confiscation, then everything would have already been developed and released in full

[krvl]

And just giving 3 yards is weak?

[agond]

In their motor-wheel with an outer diameter of 1.6 m, there is very little space for an electric motor with a gearbox, where it is only 0.5-0.6 m in diameter, but if you use low-profile rubber, then the "hole in the donut" can be increased by at least a third and the mulberry will fit everything what do they want

[sgrabik]

And they have already been given, a whole ten years have passed and things are still in the same place, you just need to set goals more clearly, and ask harder for their implementation, how long can the solution of this problem be delayed, this is probably done with one single goal, to pull out this platform has as much budgetary funds as possible, but budget money cannot be scattered so uncontrollably, everything has its own reasonable limit !!!

[Knell wardenheart]

Considering the akhtung that happened after the events in Ukraine (associated with the violation / destruction of industrial cooperatives), it is worthwhile to prepare in advance for such a turn in Blr. Whether it happens or not is not important, but it's definitely worth having your own developments.

[Vaўkalak]

Maybe Russia should have done the same as China? As they write on the Internet: in 1998 in the city of Xiogan (Hubei province), a joint Chinese-Belarusian venture Sanjiang-Volat Special Vehicle Co., LTD was organized. for the manufacture of multi-axle wheeled tractors and chassis for various purposes with a carrying capacity of 20 to 75 tons. Probably Russia should have tried to do something similar, at the facilities of the same BAZ. And then over time, already having experience in production, some groundwork to create your final product. Even if someone refused to sell their enterprise (which they had every right to do), they had to somehow turn around, look for options. In the end, according to the Chinese principle, Ctrl + C and Ctrl + to begin with. By the way, look at the photo for yourself, it’s a no brainer where the legs grow from Chinese tractors.

[Zaurbek]

You cannot copy here. MZKT specialists assisted the Chinese in building a plant and manufacturing machines.

[Great Mike]

We are not in the horse feed ... go to the KZKT website

[steelmaker]

Did you want to "chubasit" dad? But dad does not trade in the Motherland. That's right, he thinks about people, about the state. If Putin and Medvedev had not ruined education, they could have done it themselves. In general, what is the problem? We are still trading with Ukraine and are content with it, but here look how picky they are. And the Belarusians are not for sale either. Otherwise, the designers would have worked long ago in Russia !!

[JD1979]

Should Russia buy MZKT

Smart countries buy BRAINS first.

[Rufat]

It is necessary to produce millions of such machines and gouge everyone

[Old26]

Quote: D16

Because there is no need to urgently produce what is produced in Belarus ourselves. The copy of the ancient tractor has no market prospects.

And the market prospect for this tractor is not needed. These tractors are needed only for one thing - for the Russian Armed Forces, in particular for the Strategic Missile Forces.
Belarus itself produces not only such chassis, but also a large line of trucks.

Quote: D16

Moreover, the rearmament of the Strategic Missile Forces is already coming to an end and there is no particular need for new vehicles for the PGRK.

The resource of such machines is not unlimited. Replacement is still required, albeit not in such quantities

Quote: D16

Even if MZKT stops working today, new tractors for the PGRK will not be needed soon.

Now Belarus supplies our MO chassis with a 16x16 formula. Now about how soon they will be needed. Currently in service with about 36 PGRKs with ICBMs "Topol". They will most likely be replaced with one of the Yars modifications. That is, it will be needed in the near future (at least 2-3 years)
Further. In service are 18 PGRKs with ICBMs "Topol-M". This means that 18 more chassis will be needed for APU. Now there are still 60 Topol-M mine complexes in service. What they will be replaced with. The mine versions of "Yars" or part will be replaced by mine, and some by mobile complexes
So it will take long enough

Quote: D16

Therefore, there is no such ravine as with shipboard power plants and people have the opportunity to calmly bring the car to mind, organize production and further operation. All of the above is purely IMHO.

If, God forbid, changes take place in Belarus and we are "cut off" from the MZKT, then the rush will be exactly the same as with ship engines. Or will the rearmament of the same Strategic Missile Forces

[Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich]

Quote: nsm1

For the third time I am writing here - the Omsk plant of Baranov - an aircraft engine repairman receives from 15 thousand rubles.
Repair engineer at OGM - from 17 thous.
This is from hh.ru, do not believe it, look for yourself.
This directly affects the timing.
The worst work, the convicted, the sick.
Of course, on TV and in speeches like you it is not so, but in real life, alas and ah.

This is a monthly salary.
How much is the monthly bonus? What about the quarterly bonus? And the surcharge "for special conditions"? What is the 13th salary and is it paid? Is something paid "in an envelope"? Is there a supplement - "material aid" for the vacation? Is there a supplement "annual material aid"?
I am in no way claiming that all the bonuses I mentioned are paid, BUT I just want to draw your attention to the fact that the "bare salary" that is mentioned in job advertisements is often only a fraction of the money that a truly valuable employee can receive.
Moreover, the phenomenon of "salary in an envelope" has not been canceled by itself ...

[Zaurbek]

Most likely only feeding in the plant canteen is added.

[gsev]

Quote: Abrosimov Sergey Olegovich

The "bare salary" that is talked about in job advertisements is often only a fraction of the money a truly valuable employee can get.

Usually in the ad they indicate a larger amount than they will pay.

[Zaurbek]

Now he has actually driven the country into international isolation, leaving only Russia and China among partners. Why not take advantage of the situation now and make Minsk an offer that it cannot refuse? It's high time, especially since Lukashenka simply has no room for maneuver - he certainly won't dare to ask an oil company in exchange for MZKT. However, this scheme has many complications.


After the recent events, I don’t understand at all why there is no progress? Everything went into SILENCE

[Zaurbek]

Avionics and other systems of the same Iskander are developing and decreasing in size. Accordingly, if you do it now, then the OTRK will easily fit on the BAZ 8x8.

[storm]

If the leadership of the Russian Federation would have been more discerning, 15 years ago they would have organized their own production of the entire line of MZKT tractors at Kamaz.
Russia, as the legal successor of the USSR, is actually the same owner of the entire legacy created in the Union.

[7,62x54]

Because the plant does not produce the entire range of components, and the navel will be untied to buy up subcontractors, the only option remains is to join Belarus to Russia.

[Moore]

July 23, 1954 in the Belarusian АSSR

In principle, we could not read further, but we will continue ...

The successor of the 543rd was supposed to be the MZKT-7930, but the machine became only its more modern analogue, produced in parallel. Now chassis 7930 can be seen as part of the tactical Iskander.

Didn't he? You can see him not only on Iskander - in many places. For example:
-on the same DBK "Topol-M" ("Yars") - 15V240M (MOBD), 15M69 (MIOM);
-BRK "Ball";
-BRK "Bastion" and many other places.

As well as missing in service with the MZKT-79221 - huge sixteen-wheeled transporters of Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles. Now these unique products are exported exclusively to Russia, however, nowhere else are such monsters in demand.

The equipment of Russian silos is also not in demand anywhere else - does it somehow affect its efficiency?

The eight-axle and eight-hundred-horsepower Volat is capable of taking on up to 80 tons, while consuming about 300 liters of fuel per 100 km - like several battle tanks!

Shouldn't the sturgeon be cut down to 160-200l / 100km?

It was not completely clear in 2011, and five years later, how can you buy a military-industrial complex located abroad?

Good. The risk is great, if you do not continue the integration, which father fears like plague. However, it is not unreasonable if you observe the dashing tricks of our effektyuk like Serdyukov. What a pathetic former tax man. There sharks with larger jaws clang ...

[Great Mike]

Who destroyed the Kurgan KZKT? Which produced almost the same equipment as the MZKT? Lukashenko understands that MZKT and MAZ, if sold to Russia, will face the same fate ... Medvedev's role in the murder of our industry is well known ...

[Go to the]

I'm afraid to disappoint you ... he no longer understands anything .... and the plant will sooner or later "merge".

[Go to the]

No need to worry .... sooner or later the plant will cease to exist ... in any case, as an independent enterprise ... and will be absorbed either by the Russian or the European monopoly.

[SPQR]

Belarusian ASSR? Something new))))
Correct the mistake!

[agond]

For criticizing the 16x16 scheme, minus the minuses are sacred, without imagining how in this miracle it drives off the road into the forest? , to turn off the 24-meter car stops, then slowly fidgets back and forth and finally blocks the road only 10-12 m wide and only then slowly slides off the asphalt onto the gravel road, in a specially prepared place. In general, on the most flat terrain, it is almost impossible to leave a two-lane road in a field in an unprepared place, since the wheels begin to hang from the side of the road on both sides of the road and there is a risk of overturning (and it overturns easily, since the center of gravity is high) for the same reason it is almost impossible to turn around, though you can go backwards.

[decimalegio]

But is it not possible to replace the MZKT with BAZ machines ???

[Nunaxep]

There was no Belarusian ASSR. What is the article about?

[Non liberoid Russian]

I went in, read the comments - the monotonous whining about everything was gone, and no matter what article, some of them write the same thing. the site from a good military service center turned into a haven for those who groan about the bright past

[DPN]

This technique was created for the USSR Armed Forces and almost all the weapons went to the Russian Federation, now you offer an enemy from Belarus, so there are up to and more of them along the borders.

[lopvlad]

Should Russia buy MZKT

At one time, Belarus wanted to buy and then destroy the only remaining plant in Russia for the production of wheeled tractors in Bryansk (JSC "BAZ"), a competitor of its products in the class of light and medium tractors (no one made heavy tractors for ICBMs in Russia). Russia began to suspect something, the deal fell through, and in 2015, Almaz-Antey bought 100% of the authorized capital of NAMS-Spetsmashkomplekt LLC, which owns shares of Bryansk Automobile Plant JSC (BAZ JSC).
In fact, this was the very first coffin in the lid of the coffin of the MZKT, since the most tidbit of mass sales of the chassis for Almaz-Antey products in the form of the S-400 systems and, in the future, for the S-500 was lost.
As for the hope that BAZ JSC will be able to provide the products of other military enterprises that are not part of Almaz-Antey with more lifting tractors, it is unfounded. For now the enterprise is loaded several years ahead with orders for Almaz-Antey.
After Belarus could not buy BAZ JSC and Almaz-Antey refused to buy the MZKT chassis for its products, Lukashenka decided to offer Russia to buy the MZKT, which had previously refused to sell, but at the same time bent the price exorbitant. to look for options in their country and Kamaz responded to the call, but so far the completed chassis that have passed all tests have not gone into production.

Moreover, in the spring of 2019 it was reported that

Domestic highly mobile chassis created as part of the Platform-O development work, in particular, for the Topol-M and Yars missile systems, have been adopted by the Russian army. This was reported on Thursday by TASS by a source in the Russian military-industrial complex.

but in reality we have not seen a single YARS complex on a KAMAZ chassis, we have not seen a KAMAZ chassis for Iskander and Bastion either. Considering that Kamaz stated that the transition from the MZKT chassis to theirs would be gradual (within 10 years ) they still have time.

As for the MZKT, it is as sad as a suitcase without a handle inside which is old, proven but already rubbish.

[Butchcassidy]

MZKT does not have many options - either economic death and the closure of the plant, or the opening of a branch and transfer of production to Russia. Everything else is not for us. It is clear that not now and not quickly, but the replacement of Belarusian supplies will be made, including the PGRK platform.

If they do not agree with the second option, then it is necessary to lure engineers to Bryansk

[Elturisto]

The dumpsters from the elite of the Russian Federation, serving foreign capital, just wanted to destroy the MZKT at the behest of their owners, as is the case with KAMAZ, VAZ and has already been done with KZKT and ZIL. Belarusian autocluster eyesore Damler-Benz, Liebherr and others. At the same time, they want to drown and Russian suppliers of Belarusians - YaMZ and TMZ - manufacturers of diesel engines. It was Liebherr who supplied components for the project of the O KAMAZ platform, which failed miserably.

[yehat2]

Quote: Lipchanin

What does MO have to do with wages at the plant?

the most direct, although not complete.
for every planned penny of salary you need to bargain.
even in relatively prosperous St. Petersburg, it is not easy to agree on a salary of 40k.
I know that because had to do the automation of the planned calculations of contracts.
unlike construction, where there is a minimum rate of return and some prices,
in MO contracts, a lot depends on specific agreements.
and there is a lot of corruption. In addition, a number of rules for holding tenders hinders the quality.
and poor planning.

[kiril-belo]

If Moscow plans to quietly move the state border outside Brest, then you can buy it.

[megadeth]

I also drove 543, 547 and 79221, by the way, whoever is in the tank, they all have automatic weapons, beautiful cars and there is nothing to think about, you should continue to buy from your brothers and not indulge in the “Navalnovsky” polemics, health and goodness to all. Glory to the Strategic Missile Forces!!!!!!

[trahterist]

What is meant by the word "outdated"?
I often hear this in critical articles, but nothing specific is mentioned.
Outdated, that's all.
Minsk tractors had independent suspension initially, so the chassis is completely “modern”.
For diesels?
Back in the USSR, tanks began to be replaced with “Yaroslavl” and “Tutai”.
You can't imagine anything better for military equipment.
Set the teeth on edge, and extremely ambiguous from the point of view. Consumer qualities of "Euro"?
There are also YaMZ and TMZ common rail, if anyone has such a whim.
Automatic transmissions and relatives are quite decent for warriors.
For the citizen with her whims, so be it, push the CF.
Cabins?
What is there to modernize???
Should I push the air conditioner?
It all depends on the customer.
Otherwise they will buy domestic products in the Minimum package, and they stink, comparing them with imports, in the Maximum package, objectivity, what.

Well, comparing hydromechanics (all MAZ centipedes of the Soviet era) with Full Electric Transmission, and with the control of each wheel separately (a feature of Platform O), and even making all this variety work harmoniously is somewhat reckless.
Different levels, absolutely.
With the MAZ-7907 (just with the Power Transmission), even with those capacities and personnel, not everything was smooth.

[agond]

For reference, outside the city the width of a two-lane road, taking into account the reinforced shoulder, is about 10 m, for a four-lane road it is about 20 m, that is, a car 24 m long on a two-lane road, in principle, cannot turn around, on a four-lane road, even if it can, it is an exception with great difficulty, and in a populated area, for example in Teykovo, it is impossible to simply turn onto another road where you want, that is, a car with a 16x16 wheel arrangement has very serious limitations when driving, it would be much more convenient for it to roll along the steppe somewhere in Mongolia