"T-72B3M has become a completely new platform": Western analysts on the great prospects of the Russian tank

Russian troops began the new year 2021 by once again being taken to military training grounds Tanks T-72 - in the latest modification of the T-72B3M, which is designed to become one of the mainstays of the ground forces for many years.

According to analysts at the Western research center GlobalData, despite the creation of a new generation of MBTs, improved Soviet vehicles are badly needed by the Russian army. If the T-14 "Armata" is the flagship of tank units, then the T-72 is a huge reserve for a significant increase in their combat power at low cost.

According to GlobalData experts, in 2021-25, the Russian ground forces will receive for purchases only 9,9% (no more than $ 5,9 billion) of total investments in the armed forces. In this regard, the command has to be extremely careful with the allocated funds. That is why the bet was made on the further improvement of the T-72, from the basic version of which only a numerical index remained.

Upgrading the T-72 eliminates historical design flaws to such an extent that the T-72B3M can be viewed as a completely new platform and not just an upgrade in terms of performance

- thinks analyst Harry Boneham, noting that in the near future the "flagships of the battlefield" - the T-72 "Armata" tanks will join the T-3M14.

Comments

[Observer2014]

"T-72B3M has become a completely new platform": -Yes, I completely agree with this statement!
By the way, this is what money, modern technology can do with a bow and arrow.

[Pessimist22]

The block bow is 50 years old and is not much superior to the recursive composite bow, the shoulders are shorter.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Pessimist22

The block bow is 50 years old and is not much superior to the recursive composite bow, the shoulders are shorter.

So you are not in the know ... The compound bow has a different diagram of the application of force to the projectile being thrown - the arrow. Strength, which means acceleration, gradually increases as the shoulders straighten. And the arrow's speed is HIGHER. And the effort to hold it is less, it is easier to aim.
Block crossbows have an arrow speed of 120 m / s ... A very lethal weapon at a distance of up to 100 meters. And accurate. And exceeding the trajectory at a distance of no more than 2 meters. Not a direct shot, however, and not an overhead trajectory.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Observer2014

modern technology can do with bow and arrow.

1 Optical sight
2 Nylon bowstring
3 CFRP shoulders
4 Boom with homing head
5 Depleted uranium tip
And an archer in kevlar armor ...

[Alien From]

And a drone instead of a bird)

[Uncle lee]

+ ballistic computer and night vision device ...
And ..... sorry for the bird!

[Flooding]

Quote from Uncle Lee

1 Optical sight
2 Nylon bowstring
3 CFRP shoulders
4 Boom with homing head
5 Depleted uranium tip
And an archer in kevlar armor ...

Rimbaud squeezed everything that was possible from this type of weapon in the second or third film.
Further, the military industry does not see the possibility of its modernization.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Flood

does not see opportunities for its modernization.

Alas .... And:
"To hand over for conservation to warehouse №1, to Maxims and Mauser".

[Klingon]

the bow is understandable, but there are also high-tech slingshots

[voyaka uh]

What has changed so fundamentally about him?
KAZ as it was not, so no. DZ boxes as they were placed with
large fences between them, and remained.
You can also talk about the T-90 as something new, but about the T-72?

[The leader of the Redskins]

And I wondered what kind of GlobalData is it? If you believe their releases, then they are specialists and experts IN ALL INDUSTRIES, which already raises doubts about the quality of information content. Well, registration in 2020.
Doubtful source, in general.

[Alien From]

I agree with the Leader, the source of rubbish!

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Alien From

I agree with the Leader, the source of rubbish!

Those. Is there a KAZ on the new T-72?

[Orange bigg]

Quote: voyaka uh

What has changed so fundamentally about him?
KAZ as it was not, so no. DZ boxes as they were placed with
large fences between them, and remained.
You can also talk about the T-90 as something new, but about the T-72?

That's what.

.Tanks T-72B3 are an updated version of the T-72B, adopted by the Soviet army in the mid-1980s. Today the troops have more than a thousand "three rubles". This tank has a Sosna-U multichannel sight with automatic target tracking and a thermal imaging channel with a French-made Thales Catherine camera, an updated fire control system (FCS), an upgraded 2A46M-5 cannon with improved ballistics, and a number of other innovations. However, it was not without its drawbacks. In particular, the outdated Kontakt-72 dynamic protection, which was put into service in 3, was installed on the first T-5B1986s. The T-72B3M has a much thicker "skin". There are other benefits as well.
"The main difference between the T-72B3M and the" classic "T-72B3 is a new diesel engine and reinforced protection elements, - says Viktor Murakhovsky, editor-in-chief of the Arsenal of the Fatherland magazine, to RIA Novosti. - The B3 has a B-84-1 engine with a capacity of 840 horsepower, on B3M - B-92S2F for 1130 horsepower Externally, the new modification differs thanks to additional modules of modern reactive armor "Relic" on the sides, hull and turret. "

.T-72B3M as a whole is much more "friendly" to the driver-mechanic: his department was equipped with a display complex and a rear-view television camera. An automated gearbox significantly increases reverse speed: as the experience of the Syrian civil war (and all recent armed conflicts) shows, this can save the car and the crew. There are enough videos on the network where the tanks of government troops, barely leaving the cover and firing, did not have time to roll back and were struck by the enemy's anti-tank weapons.

https://ria.ru/20181123/1533252591.html

[Petro_tut]

You forgot to mention the B2 modification

[yuriy55]

Quote: voyaka uh

What has changed so fundamentally about him?

The question is, of course, interesting ...

Engine - the B3M is equipped with a B-92S2F diesel engine with a power of 1130 hp instead of 840 hp. on the T-72B3 tank. The engine is really good, and it was developed specifically for the modernization of the B3 (in the same dimensions), but there is nothing super-secret, and even simply secret, in it.
The updated Sosna-U sight - a digital ballistic computer and a panoramic sight - now fire faster and more accurately. However, there is nothing secret about this either, and there are still analogues on foreign tanks - where it is worse, where it is better.
Dynamic protection "Relic", installed on the turret and hull of the tank, instead of "Contact-5" on the previous version. "Relic" is undoubtedly better than "Contact-5", but "Relik" again has analogues.
Tracked tracks with improved performance and more reliable.
The gearbox is automatic, which allows you to reverse gear faster. According to the experience of military conflicts, this point occupies an important place. There were cases when a tank, moving out of cover, and firing a shot, did not have time to back up into cover, and received a rocket or a grenade.
The placement of ammunition and fuel in the tank has been optimized; screens have been installed to protect the crew from secondary fragments. There is an air conditioner.
It is possible that the Arena-M active protection will be installed on the modernized T-72B3M, which will significantly increase the tank's survivability.
The ammunition rack is equipped with elongated APCR shells with increased penetration.

I even liked the output:

Thus, it can be understood that the new old T-72B3M tank turned out to be excellent - well protected, powerful and with good firepower. Considering the fact that the Russian army has a huge number of T-72 tanks, and modernization is much cheaper than creating new tanks, this is good news.

And if we consider that there are slightly more than 6 tanks in the whole of NATO, then this is a real step to oppose something to such a number.

[venik]

Quote: voyaka uh

KAZ as it was not, so no.

=======
Great! Is KAZ installed on ALL "Merkavkas" ??? For everyone?
-------

Quote: voyaka uh

DZ boxes as they were placed with
large fences between them, and remained.

========
And the notorious "gap" - accidentally can not be part of the system "breaking" shaped-charge projectiles?
PS Better to ask PROFESSIONALS, not “sofa experts” like you!

[venik]

Quote: venik

Great! Is KAZ installed on ALL "Merkavkas" ??? For everyone?

=======
In! So the "slippers flew" .... I suppose the "Israeli friends" woke up ....

[Old tanker]

The gap will not break the cumulative jet in any way. It can only smash the body of the RPG grenade, well, it is still possible to damage the body of the ATGM (like the anti-cumulative lattice screen, the principle is the same). But the "scrap" of the BPS will enter this gap calmly and pierce the main armor.

[carstorm 11]

The fact that since 11 they have already made more than 1200 pieces. Yes. Not without flaws. But 90 presented a couple of years just like. And new cars were needed much earlier

[MMX]

Quote: voyaka uh

What has changed so fundamentally about him?
KAZ as it was not, so no. DZ boxes as they were placed with
large fences between them, and remained.
You can also talk about the T-90 as something new, but about the T-72?

Yes, nothing.
Also, the AZ design leaves little chance for the crew.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: MMX

Also, the AZ design leaves little chance for the crew.

Stupid fairy tales about AZ, the main complaint about the placement of ammunition on the T-72 is that charges and shells over AZ were stuffed into all the slots, but it was impossible to cover them.

[Klingon]

it seems like the machine gun turret was finally made remote

[hydro]

No prospects for the T-72 - this is the last century, even a modified

[paul3390]

What about Leopard, Abrams or Challenger? You have to understand - these are all the fruits of the latest Western technologies of the XXI century?

[lucul]

No prospects for the T-72 - this is the last century, even a modified

This Merkava did not fall to anyone for nothing ...
And the T-72 is a workhorse)))

[Incvizitor]

Western to such a versatile, high-quality and inexpensive platform like walking to the moon.

[venik]

Quote: hydroy

No prospects for the T-72 - this is the last century, even a modified

========
Excuse me, but "Abrashka", "Carrot", "Lёpik" (in the sense - "Leopard") - this is WHAT century ???

[venik]

Quote: venik

Excuse me, but "Abrashka", "Carrot", "Lёpik" (in the sense - "Leopard") - this is WHAT century ???

========
In! And here is the "slippers flew" !!!

[Narak-zempo]

Quote: hydroy

No prospects for the T-72 - this is the last century, even a modified

Russophobe!

[hydro]

In the sense of? Where is Armata? Why not put new armored vehicles on stream?

[hydro]

It is impossible to upgrade the T-72 to the last !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We must go forward! junk before the T-72 generally needs to be handed over for scrap! Generally, to clear the warehouses of t-55, t-62, t-64 and early ones for melting, and replace with new equipment! These cans will burn with the crews, even from old rockets! Or will we support the T-55 in parking lots and warehouses until the last moment ??? silly.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: hydroy

It is impossible to upgrade the T-72 to the last !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We must go forward! junk before the T-72 generally needs to be handed over for scrap! Generally, to clear the warehouses of t-55, t-62, t-64 and early ones for melting, and replace with new equipment! These cans will burn with the crews, even from old rockets! Or will we support the T-55 in parking lots and warehouses until the last moment ??? silly.

It's very simple. In case of war, "partisans" will ride them. You know who

[hydro]

Partisans on T-55 or below? some kind of live meat, this Soviet rubbish is no longer needed, it is rotten, modern tanks are needed in warehouses, and not junk, which is easily destroyed

[rotmistr60]

The T-72B3M can be seen as a completely new platform, not just an upgrade in terms of performance

Western analysts (no matter what they are) from time to time need something that Russians have and praise, so that later they are not accused of bias. True, they wanted to sneeze at this from a high bell tower, but for the prestige of the publication it is necessary. And about the positive and negative qualities of the upgraded tank, you must ask the designers and test engineers. Then the information will be objective.

[BMP-2]

As the saying goes, if the "partner" scolds you, then you are doing everything right. But if you suddenly began to praise, it makes sense to think about why it would be and what purpose it pursues.

[viktor_ui]

I have a neighbor, a BIG fan of Lada ... wants, of course, what is more powerful and more comfortable, including reliability, but due to limited financial opportunities, he cannot afford more and better. And therefore, yes, he has a cool and MODERN car from the 21st century. T-72B3M budgetary KASTRAT ... was much better modernization, safely buried for the sake of economy class

[carstorm 11]

1200 pieces. What other upgrades can be done quickly for this number? No army could afford it.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: carstorm 11

1200 pieces. What other modernization can you quickly spend for that amount?

I agree quickly no. However, clarify what you put into the word quickly?
At the end of the Cold War (1 units), the British dashingly and quickly (in 500 years) rearmed their entire tank fleet (MBT) from Chieftains to Challengers and equipped them with all of their 5 BTC (3st AK in Germany, 1 BTBr.), Two BTBR. Mostly staffed with Challengers, they managed to fight in the first Iraqi campaign against S. Hussein ...
Both "Chiefs" and "Challengers" are more expensive than any tank produced by the USSR, therefore it is incorrect to compare Western tanks, especially with the T-72 (tank of the "mobilization" army) ... therefore, developing countries bought T-72 countries with a low production and repair base Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia ...
The PRC has already learned how to make tanks no worse than the tanks produced in the late USSR, India does not yet, it produces part of the T-90 under license with 80% localization (we cannot persuade the Indians to transfer the production of tank engines to the Indians, probably because of the PRC) .. ..they will not bring their own tank to mind ...
Russian tanks will be bought by developing countries at war. The T-72 has gained authority on the battlefield, the T-72 is probably the most belligerent tank in the world ...
Modernization of the T-72 (and T-80) is a forced economic measure, because to arm the tank units of the T-90MS of the RF Armed Forces, even the Western Military District and the Southern Military District is an unbearable task ...

[Rose capone]

Even the new Turkish UAVs Bayraktar Akinci and Bayraktar-3 (by the way, with Ukrainian engines of old-school Soviet design) will not give any tank any chance, due to the tank's poor protection from above.
And about the shock drones of the Peninsula of Israel, the USA, Sweden, etc., I will not even say anything.
We need anti-UAV "tank nannies", then we can talk about the survivability of armor-piercing equipment.

[Aleks2048]

The UAV's main drawback is that it was not used against the army in a full-scale conflict, i.e. in which such a trifle as the lives of civilians if debt management is carried out from a residential area can be neglected this is the first and second if the air defense is normal, then it can detect the launch site of the UAV and, with proper coordination, a strike can be promptly delivered to the specified place both by artillery and with the help other means, the UAV also has a vulnerability in the need for constant radio exchange with the operator, and this channel, in principle, can be drowned out. So the UAV does not have so much scope for action if the enemy is a little more prepared than the Papuans with a bow.

[nsm1]

Quote: Alex2048

detect the launch site of the UAV

It is difficult to see it even close up, because small and transparent.
Where is the starting point ...

Quote: Alex2048

in the need for constant radio exchange with the operator

There is no such need.
You can enter a flight mission.

[Aleks2048]

Where is the starting point ...

I agree that the task is not trivial when it comes to handicraft suitable (and little good in a full-scale conflict), but everything changes when it comes to shock drones (bayraktar) or serious scouts (Raptor) Russian (hunter) and their analogs are knees do not run.

You can enter a flight mission.

At UAV speeds, the flight task for moving targets will become obsolete before the UAV gains altitude, and stationary objects can be covered with electronic warfare blocking or distorting signals from navigation networks, and if a gyroscope is pushed into the UAV, this will again have a bad effect on stealth. So UAVs have serious drawbacks to speak of them as a wunderwaffe.

[rotfuks]

Against the latest Turkish UAVs and strike drones of the Peninsula of Israel, the United States, Sweden, the troops traditionally use air defense cover. And there are enough such air defense systems in the troops. Unfortunately, the recent Karabakh events have sowed fermentation in some minds. But in many videos from the Karabakh conflict, we have never seen air defense fire. The drones circled over the Armenian trenches for hours and no one fired at the drones from the ground. The Armenian soldiers lay pressed into the ground and prayed to their Armenian god. For example, during the Second World War, our grandfathers shot down the latest aircraft of the time from rifles.

[Incvizitor]

Armenian okaps? In the trenches of Karabakh (since the air defense of the 70s), there seem to be no Armenians there.

[Lesorub]

As you can see, the channel's reporters show ordinary T-72Bs at firing, but they talk about the T-72B3M - the information was presented with no obvious "accuracy".

The T-72B3M can be viewed as a completely new platform, not just an upgrade

Analyst Gary Boneham is clearly mistaken in considering the T-72BM3 to be a new platform - the right thing to do is "necessary" budget upgrades.

[Lara Croft]

Quote: Lesorub

As you can see, the channel's reporters show ordinary T-72Bs at firing, but they talk about the T-72B3M - the information was presented with no obvious "accuracy".

Also noticed ...

[Aleks tv]

T-72B3 model 2016 (amended in 2019) is fundamentally different from the original B3.
However, the most important thing is yet to come.
This is when the commander's TKN-3MK is thrown out.
There is a replacement for it and it is not new:
PNK-4S-02 complex with TKN-4S-02 sight. EXACTLY with the letter "02", which has a thermal imaging channel (and the corresponding cost).
This will be really almost PERFECTLY balanced modernization.

And if you dream then ... Attach the tactical tablet to the Aqueduct. This is technically foreseen.
And SUCH "old man" with products С-1 and С-2 in skillful pens will give odds to the entire modern menagerie.
No kidding. I can prove it on SUCH car in a fight with ANY "beast".


Although .. TKN is already so zadolbal that it will do with the letter "01".
This is of course an IR device, but at least it is interfaced with the on-board equipment with mechanical leads (!!!), that is, it is possible to stick a remote ZPU with it.
It stands on the T-90A (p.

But we have been talking about this for many years ...
In November 2013, I made an extreme review on the VO of this machine.
https://topwar.ru/35631-t-72b3chto-eto-za-zver-chast-1.html
https://topwar.ru/35591-t-72b3chto-eto-za-zver-chast-2.html
The commander has changed NOTHING.
Eheh.

[Incvizitor]

The protection is even better and so cover the sides of the top and ...

[Aleks tv]

... The protection is even better and so cover the sides of the top and ...

I agree. The fact that the top of the tower is closed even worse than that of 72B with Contact-1 ... the tongue has already made it up to talk about it.

ARENA - M?
Unlikely, unfortunately.
But do not forget that the combat coherence of the BTGr units is the BASIC protection of the tank as an element of the same BTGr.
But the instruments ...
It is more important to replace the devices for the commander and ... REAL.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Aleks tv

Eheh .....

Alex, welcome!
I support your opinion. I will add a penny for production with trifles. Gunner's sight.
T-90M

T-72B3M

Pay attention to the method of covering the optics with armored shutters.

[Aleks tv]

.Additional penny for the production of small change.

Hello Volodya.

The armored cover is no longer funny, there is such a thing.
There would also be a crawler spacecraft with a submersion depth of 1.000 m, I would still understand.
And here, for the eighth year, talk about the author. curtain, your division !!!
Even the 1K13 relic is covered by it.

Thanks for the photo, I have not yet figured out how to do this in the current VO format ...))

[Bad_gr]

 Show / Hide text

Quote: Aleks tv

Thanks for the photo, I have not yet figured out how to do this in the current VO format ...))

You press the button to answer, and then

I upload photos from my computer, it's easier for me. And when I upload a video, I insert the address of the video from YouTube.
When the message has already been sent to the site, you can still correct it by clicking the icon at the bottom right, next to the trash can. A long row of buttons appears, of which the rightmost one can hide the text (you first emphasize what to hide)

[Aleks tv]

... I upload photos from my computer

And I master the phone after a stroke))

So I'm trying to prove to myself that I can not only use a crowbar in a tank, but also on a phone.

Thank you, Volodya!

[Aleks tv]

This is the ancient armored cover 1K-13-49.

[Bad_gr]

Quote: Aleks tv

This is the ancient armored cover 1K-13-49.

Old hinged and new bolted - progress. Personally, it is not clear to me, what is the logic behind the decision to put the armored cover on bolts on the BASIC sight?

[Aleks tv]

.What is the logic behind the decision to put the armored cover on bolts on the BASIC scope?

This question is not only for us 8th year of eating the liver ...
I will not tell MY adventures, it makes no sense.
But there are reviews about it.
Until the customer (probably the Martians) blows the whistle, the engine of changes will not move.

[Bad_gr]

There was an option to modernize the T-72 from the designer Yakovlev. He claims that the design of the front of the tank is so successful that he was even forbidden to patent it, so that it would not go to the side. It's a pity that there is no modernization option in metal, only in drawings:

 Show / Hide text

1

[Old tanker]

Gold words! We have been talking about this for a long time. By modern standards, the commander of the T-72B3 is practically blind! This means that he cannot effectively lead the battle.

[Aleks tv]

... By modern standards, the commander of the T-72B3 is practically blind! This means that he cannot effectively lead the battle.

Greetings. Sorry, I don't know your name.

Well ... GABTU fundamentally disagrees with you.

What does the Charter say about commanders?
Must be in command of your favorite personnel, period!
So grab the bull ... Ugh, damn it, ... TKN by the horns, rest your helmet on the forehead and ... having a vision range of 500m in the IR range, command the gunner who sees 3500m in the thermal range.
And just try to command badly!
Do you love your homeland?
Duck what's the problem?
Command your tank, the tank commander, the platoon leader your platoon, the company commander your company ...

[Old tanker]

Well, you forgot the output terminal of the gunner's main sight channel to the commander. So, in the opinion of the GABTU, the commander can peep what the gunner sees at 3500 and command him, twist the cap and shake the cannon so that the commander can reconnoiter the targets. Again, the charter control function is retained. And you can also stare at the same picture as the gunner and give a command in a voice: "Armor-piercing, landmark 1, closer than 200, to the left 0-04, tank in the trench" ... well, further in the text NST.

[Aleks tv]

... You can also stare at the same picture as the gunner

The fact of the matter is that it is a "Double" ...
After being reinstated in the Service, I somehow had a conversation with a "high inspector" from the Arbat Military District, who from "Double" made him a commander beyond his capabilities.
My sarcasm was answered that I only had a gap on the shoulder straps, and there was nothing to indicate to those who had stripes ...
I did not question his authority in the presence of subordinates, this is impossible. And checking is not a joke for HF ...
However, in the smoking room, the contractor later said:
- stripes ... On their pants they have stripes, proximity .. ahem ..., it prevents thinking.
That's the whole story.

[Mountain shooter]

Has become faster, more mobile, more precisely, more powerful. Increased protection. Covering military air defense on the battlefield and electronic warfare guarantees the terrible penetrating power of tank units. Combined with artillery and aviation. This is a tank for massive use. As in Israel, where there has long been a piece of use, there are other machines for this. With "Shtora" and KAZ. IMHO, a successful platform, when it is relatively cheap to significantly increase the number of combat-ready tanks of a very decent level.

[voyaka uh]

"This is a tank of massive use" ///
----
Forget it. This is from the past.
Look, the Azerbaijanis tried to carry out a tank attack. With the T-90, which is much more secure than the T-72. We ran into ATGMs, lost a couple of tanks (turret separately, hull separately). And prudently retreated. That's the whole mass ...

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: voyaka uh

Look, the Azerbaijanis tried to carry out a tank attack.

Let the Azerbaijanis carry out what they consider to be a tank attack ... However, such attacks are carried out behind the "barrage", when tanks literally follow the breaks of the supporting artillery, and high-explosive shells explode in the air at low altitude. What pturs are there ... what grenade launchers ...? Don't raise your head. And you can't see anything. The shaft rolled, and tanks at the front 2-3 km already rumble far in the rear ...
He himself participated in practicing such a blow. This is the final element of the artillery barrage.
An offensive behind the "barrage" is an excellent technique ... Tanks and infantry fighting vehicles are capable of passing any field fortified area covered with minefields without loss. In peaceful fields passages are pierced by "Serpents of Gorynychi", the passages are covered with artillery. They put such an "umbrella" ... The speed of tanks is up to a kilometer per minute. 10 minutes - and your tank scoundrels are already crushing the rear and reserves ... At a depth of 4-5 km. And in an hour?

[voyaka uh]

"The attack behind the" barrage "is a great move" ///
----
This is if the enemy did not hurry to "thin out" your howitzers and Grads to the barrage.
Nobody gives now to concentrate a lot of artillery and many tanks in front of
offensive. The most that you can really count on in an attack is
small dispersed groups of tanks and single quickly changing positions
howitzers and Grads.
The teachings in which you participated are absolutely out of touch with reality.
They are based on the experience of the 2nd World War, which was almost 100 years ago.
---
So the tank must be well protected by itself. At least from ATGMs.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: voyaka uh

This is if the enemy did not hurry to "thin out" your howitzers and Grads to the barrage.
Nobody gives now to concentrate a lot of artillery and many tanks in front of
offensive. The most that you can really count on in an attack is
small dispersed groups of tanks and single quickly changing positions
howitzers and Grads.

I'm ready to argue. This was before the use of digital topographic reference methods and the preparation of data for shooting. Self-propelled howitzers, the rate of fire is three times higher per barrel, the range is appropriate. There is no need to place hundreds of guns on a kilometer of the front. They can get it from afar just as well. Plus MLRS, etc.

[Old tanker]

Single guns and rocket launchers and small groups of tanks - that's you in the Word of Tanks have played enough. This is what in modern war is not something that is absolutely ineffective, but also not viable in modern war.

[voyaka uh]

This is an interesting point of view ...
This means that a long column of tanks can be detected and destroyed from the air.
(or a salvo of artillery) is more difficult
than two groups of two tanks?

[Old tanker]

It may be easier to detect, but where to recruit for every two tanks the forces and means of indenter reconnaissance, movement support and air defense units. And at least 15 routes to the battalion must be looked for. Are you going to attack in small groups of 2 tanks too?
It's harmful to play Word of Tanks, it's harmful.

[voyaka uh]

The Wehrmacht, too, apparently played Word of Tanks.
Because that's how they acted when they had
there was no air superiority. And that's exactly how they attacked:
small groups, seeping through defenses, persistently
and continuously. With good radio communication between groups.
The Soviet army adopted the tactics of the latter
years of the Second World War, when the Germans no longer had any air supremacy
no frontline artillery. And I thought that it would be so in any war:
the mass of tanks, the barrage of fire - illusions.

[Old tanker]

It was the Wehrmacht that defeated all of Europe, because it used tanks massively, concentrating them on the main directions. And that's why I got to Moscow. And in small groups only in the Ardennes in 1944. Because there are mountains, Karl! You can't fight armadas in the mountains. And they began an offensive there precisely in bad weather. And as the weather cleared up, the Kryndets immediately came to their small tank groups.

[voyaka uh]

Okay, we will remain with our opinions.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Look, the Azerbaijanis tried a tank attack ... nevertheless, the DPRs sensibly T-64 and T-72 used filling trays MZ and AZ OF-24 and OF-36, normal such boilers were cooked without losses in armored vehicles, the only difference is This is because the calculations of MANPADS completely cleaned the sky, and the rest of the junta's military aviation was driven to the high-altitude echelon where their effectiveness was zero .... tanks in the DPR played an important role in the battles for Saur-Mogila, Ilovaisk, the capture of Donetsk airport. Debaltsevo ... so do not itch about the past

[voyaka uh]

Tanks in Donbass were used in small groups. It was in the Donbass that the concept of "battalion group" was formed, which includes several tanks, an infantry company and a dozen Gradov. Everything is correct.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Tanks in Donbass were used in small groups ...... well, they squeezed it out, nevertheless, what you designated "battalion group" was called an assault group, assault groups did not have a constant denomination. was recruited on the basis of the assigned tasks ... such a flexible system made it possible to instantly increase the SIS (forces and means) in important areas of battles, nevertheless, in addition to the SIS assault group, each tank unit was attached to combat escort units, mainly sniper and MANPADS calculations, snipers acted for informational purposes

[voyaka uh]

"Tanks in Donbass were used by small groups." ///
---
And it was impossible in another way. This is modern warfare.
Both sides came to the same conclusions during the fighting in Donbass.
And to the same structure.
If you build up your grouping, you will be hit by howitzers or enemy hail.

[Crimean partisan 1974]

Both sides came to the same conclusions during the battles in Donbass ...... you are wrong. the junta never came to a conclusion, it is understandable and no other way. the headquarters staff did not shrink. on the contrary, it swelled, the theft of funds in the armed forces acquired massive proportions, fires in weapons depots are a simple and well-tested tactic of theft, evil tongues say that striped Jovs have already appeared in the DPR Armed Forces ... then calculated in units ...
Well, as for the tanks, the DNRs have achieved success ........ and so little from the history ... PT-76., only the lazy one did not spit in his direction. nevertheless, this so-called degenerate sucks in the competent actions of Ariel Sharon led to the complete defeat of the ebibtans ... like this then

[Aleks tv]

.batalion groups were formed and used in the Russian-Georgian conflict, in the first and second Chechen wars, in Afghanistan, i.e. long before the events in Donbass.

Greetings Rudolph.

So.
In Afghanistan, and in the Caucasus in the first place, the term "reinforced battalion" was used more. In principle, as it should be according to the Charter.
The shelves in the Caucasus were almost all "consolidated" ("rabble", heh).
Already in the Caucasus, the fashion for "groups" went, it was especially vividly expressed at 08.08.08. - BTGr. - Battalion Tactical Group.
This concept came to us in fashion in the 90s for everything Western from ... aha, from Nat.
According to our Charter, this is "a battalion, reinforced by the units attached by the senior commander that were not part of the battalion's permanent staff."
But the abbreviation "TGr" stuck with us, I think that this is correct.
Capacious and intelligible.
Now almost all of our brigades have a plan for the formation of 2 armored troop-carriers on the basis of the brigade itself, with the possibility of permanent activity on a rotation basis.

[Aleks tv]

It was in Donbass that the concept of "battalion group" was formed, which includes several tanks, an infantry company and a dozen

Welcome.
A little ... A little not quite so)).
1.) The concept of a tactical group has existed for a long time and came to us from the west. (Brigade, battalion, company).
2.) At the heart of a "Battalion group" cannot be several tanks or one company, there must be a "battalion". And they screw it to it, glue it, nail it ... other units that are not included in the staff of this battalion.

...
Now, after a stroke, I am trying to master the phone to go online.
Before that, I went to VO from a laptop and always found the commentator's NAME in PM, now I can't ... When using a smartphone in PM ... There is no personal information.
People, tell me, pliz - how to find the name to whom you are referring to VO.
Warrior IN, I remember that we talked, but, sorry, I won't remember his name ...

[Aleks tv]

... on VO from the phone and after the next modernization of the site, he stopped seeing personal data. I have to refer to memory, or by nickname. Inconvenient.

Clear.
And then I thought that I had a glitch of computer inferiority.

Yes, it's inconvenient.
Thank you Rudolph!

[Bad_gr]

Quote: voyaka uh

, lost a couple of tanks (turret separately, hull separately).

There was information about this blown up tank. It burned down not from the anti-aircraft gun, but because they could not evacuate. Was blown up by the crew. I don't remember which one, Armenian or Azeri.

[janeck]

If the T-14 "Armata" is the flagship of tank units,

can be in order .. what military units? ceremonial, or combatants?

[carstorm 11]

We have no parade units except for the Kremlin.

[Victor Wolz]

Before the war, the T-26 was also modernized, did it help us a lot in 41? This tank is needed in training manuals, internal districts and in those theaters of operations where it will not meet new Western tanks. Well, for sale. We need a t-90ms and an armata but with a more powerful gun from 135 mm. Most likely, modern tank construction will again be divided into heavy tanks from 55t and guns from 130-152mm and medium weight up to 45 and caliber from 100mm to 125mm.

[Old tanker]

An increase in caliber leads to a decrease in ammunition or an increase in size. And we, even under the Union, and the French and the Germans have already played enough of this. Well, and the introduction of KAZ, an increase in caliber will do little.

[Victor Wolz]

Well, the frontal armor must be pierced with something. Heavy tanks will break through enemy defenses in a frontal attack with heavy armored personnel carriers, while medium and light tanks will outflank them. Everything is like at Cannes. Of course, aviation and drones were added, but if the opponents in this aspect are equal or the aircraft elements of the battle cannot be used due to fog or strong air defense, then everything remains as in antiquity to butt.

[Sasha from Uralmash]

Comments deleted! Moderator banned!

[avdkrd]

Quote: nsm1

It is difficult to see it even close up, because small and transparent.
Where is the starting point ...
Quote: Alex2048
in the need for constant radio exchange with the operator

There is no such need.
You can enter a flight mission.

Enchanting nonsense. Learn materiel.
1. The UAV has a radio control channel, has a radar for detection, in any case it is a radio-emitting target. The exchange of data with the operator always happens, and it is for this exchange that the control center is opened. In Israel, it seems, there is already serial equipment that works on this principle. Considering that in the field of electronic warfare, the fashion is set by Russia, then we have. The fact that most air defense systems are sharpened for other purposes does not mean that they cannot effectively deal with UAVs. This is a multi-level task and, like air defense, only air defense systems cannot be solved.
It is difficult to track down a sudden raid from an uav, for example at the Aramco refinery. In Syria, the effectiveness of the UAV against the Russian base has a negative value, despite the fact that they use not the Turkish Bayraktar, with a wingspan of 12 meters, but plywood-plastic homemade products (with an EPR like a sparrow). In Libya, by the way, the Bayraktars also suffered a fiasco. By the way, the UAV is just expensive. They have their own niche and have great potential, including anti-tank capabilities, but you shouldn't talk nonsense about radio transparency and the impossibility of fighting them.

[Anar]

In Libya, by the way, the Bayraktars also suffered a fiasco.

And can you find out where else they failed?
As races in Libya, they did not suffer a fiasco. Haftar, who almost conquered all of Libya, lost what he had won because of the onslaught of the bayraktar.

[ljoha_d]

It is not necessary to listen to the west a lot, how can this tank be good for us if it does not penetrate modern tanks, detection is worse than the commander on the horizon at night, he practically does not see, there is practically no reverse, a little better protection, but there is again no dz on the towers on the sides ... We love the forest words of the West!

[Old tanker]

It's nice to hear flattering comments about our technology from our western "partners". That's great rarity.

[Just a Traveler]

The primary source is a garbage dump ...