Military Review

"Super thread" will protect Russian soldiers from bullets and shrapnel

100

In modern armies, great attention is paid to the survival of personnel. Work on the creation of new body armor and protective materials is ongoing in the world. One of the promising Russian materials was "Super Thread", about which the Russian press first began to actively write in January 2021.


Developers of individual combat equipment are well aware that the characteristics of personal body armor largely depend on the specific weight of materials used in production. In the process of development, the military industry switched from steel with a specific gravity of 8 g / cm3, first to titanium - 4,5 g / cm3, then to aluminum - 2,7 g / cm3, and later on to polymer composite materials with indicators of 1,5 -2 g / cm3, according to the official newspaper of the RF Ministry of Defense "Krasnaya Zvezda".

Already in this century, progress has gone even further. On the basis of polyethylene fibers with a specific gravity of only 0,97 g / cm3, it was possible to obtain composite materials of such strength that it made it possible to produce body armor, protective helmets and protection elements for armored vehicles. We are talking about ultra-high molecular weight fibers. The helmets made from them weighed only 0,8 kg, their production was first deployed in the USA and Germany. Thanks to the efforts of Russian engineers and scientists, similar technologies have appeared in our country.

What is Super Thread


"Super thread" is a promising Russian material with high protective properties. Its production can be deployed directly in Russia and used in the manufacture of body armor, as well as other personal protective equipment for military personnel. This unusual name hides a particularly light ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene fiber (UHMWPE). The new substance was created by Russian chemists from the Research Institute of Synthetic Fiber in Tver.

The specific strength of the new material is 350 gf / tex (an indicator of the relative breaking load). This is almost 1,5 times higher than the performance of the currently best Kevlar aramid fibers. According to Yevgeny Kharchenko, Chief Designer for Protection Systems for Military Equipment and General Director of Armokom, it was possible to develop a composite composition based on new fibers only in 2020.


Initial UHMWPE threads and UHMWPE composite panels (chest and leg), all photos: armocom.ru

According to the specialist, the difficulty lay in the fact that due to the practically zero coefficient of friction, along with high electrification, it was not possible to process new fibers using traditional weaving methods into an efficient fabric. Another problem was finding a suitable polymer binder in order to glue the UHMWPE fibers into a monolithic composite. The problem was that the adhesion of the new material was close to zero.

The listed difficulties caused the creation of a composite based on a new fiber from Tver chemists only in 2020. The composite based on "Supernity" was the result of the joint work of engineers of the "Armocom" company and the Central Research Institute of Special Machine Building (Khotkovo). Russian specialists not only selected the required composition of the composite based on the new fiber, but also developed effective technologies for molding flat and curved Supernitis products.

Thanks to the efforts of domestic chemists and engineers working with composites, a composite material, unique in its capabilities and efficiency, has appeared in the country. It has high ballistic and structural properties. More importantly, the material can be brought to the stage of practical application by the forces of Russian industrial enterprises. In the future, it will be able to compete with foreign counterparts, in some way surpassing them already now.

What is known about the protective properties of the new material


The materials published by "Armocom" company give an idea of ​​the protective properties of the new composite. With a significantly lower density of Russian polyethylene composite, the new material has strength characteristics at the level of the best foreign analogues.

The most important thing is that the ballistic properties of "Superniti" are not only 40 percent superior to aramid composites based on Kevlar fabric, but also significantly higher than foreign UHMWPE composites. “Armocom” notes that the achievement of the best characteristics of the new protective material can be associated with the applied non-traditional winding-compressor technology.

"Super thread" will protect Russian soldiers from bullets and shrapnel
The nature of destruction of 7N28 bullets during shelling of UHMWPE composite with a thickness of 10 mm - 40% of the thickness is pierced

In terms of specific gravity, the new Russian substance of the Armocom company corresponds to the Israeli UDHMWPE (UniDirectional). UniDirectional is an Israeli state-of-the-art composite ballistic protection material. Both Russian and Israeli developments have the same specific gravity - 0,98 g / cm3. At the same time, the tensile strength of the Russian substance is 950 MPa, the Israeli one - about 900 MPa. The anti-splinter resistance of "Supernity" V50 is 670 m / s, the Israeli UD composite is 630 m / s. Fragment resistance V50 tells us about the speed at which a fragment simulator meets a protective element, at which its non-penetration is ensured with a probability of 0,5.

It should be noted that the widespread American aramid organoplastic of the Kevlar type is significantly inferior to the listed UHMWPE. So, its specific gravity reaches 1,25 g / cm3, tensile strength - 800 MPa, spall resistance V50 - 480 m / s. All the listed characteristics are given by the Armokom company for armored materials with reinforcement surface density of 4 kg / m2.

In addition to good protection against fragments, the new Russian composite material will have the ability to stop automatic bullets. The Armokom company notes that if, traditionally, to protect against automatic ammunition, it was necessary to combine superhard ceramic plates with a specific weight of about 3 g / cm3 on the front side of the protection with organoplastic on the back of the armor elements, then the new material will make it possible to do without relatively thin ceramics ...

The company notes that the developed polyethylene composite has the ability to stop many modern acute-angled bullets without the additional use of ceramics. In "Armocom" they emphasize that the hole pierced by the bullet is self-tightening, squeezing the bullet from all sides. Or, the new composite acts as an instant hardening compound that simply crushes the shell, and sometimes the bullet core itself.

An important advantage and advantage of all UHMWPE fibers, unlike most existing composite materials, is that they have positive buoyancy. This feature of the material makes it possible to produce body armor, effective even when overcoming water obstacles. Such protective equipment will be very useful in the equipment of marines and sailors. The developer of the Israeli UHMWPE fiber, UD-UniDirectional, also emphasized that the material has zero water absorption.

What opportunities does the use of Russian UHMWPE offer


Already, on the basis of the newest UHMWPE fibers created, domestic specialists have produced various composite armor elements designed to protect the vital organs of military personnel from hand-held firearms. weapons enemy, as well as legs from the impact of shrapnel. Unlike all foreign counterparts, Russian armor protection elements were first produced by the winding method.


Samples of a helmet and chest armor panel made of winding-compression UHMWPE composite

In the future, the new Russian UHMWPE fiber, which has received the symbol "Super thread", can be used in the manufacture of protective elements for the new generation of combat equipment "Ratnik" or a completely new set of equipment under a different name.

The first protective elements, which can become the basis for new military equipment for military personnel, have already been made in the "Armokom" company. In particular, a helmet and a chest panel of a body armor were made using UHMWPE composite. According to the engineer Yuri Danilin, who tested the manufactured kit, the new product significantly differs for the better in terms of ergonomics and weight from the Ratnik kit, with which he also had to deal earlier.

An important achievement for the Russian defense industry was that the country was able to produce a new class of protective products based on materials that are 20-35 percent superior to the widespread in the world aramid organoplastics of the Kevlar type. The process of import substitution is also being implemented, when a significant part or all volumes of UHMWPE can be produced in Russia. Up to this point, such materials were purchased by our country abroad. Another positive point directly follows from the previous one - Russian materials are half the price of foreign counterparts.
Author:
Photos used:
http://armocom.ru/
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  1. Insurgent
    Insurgent 25 January 2021 05: 17
    +5
    Spectacular photos yes ,when hit by a pistol bullet...


    But, in practice, the soldier is shot more often from 7,62-5,56 (from an automatic machine gun), or as in our ("private")" Donetsk "case - 7,62-5,45 ...
    1. Lech from Android.
      Lech from Android. 25 January 2021 06: 07
      -11%
      But, in practice, a soldier is shot more often from 7,62-5,56 (from an automatic machine gun), or, as in our ("private") "Donetsk" case, - 7,62-5,45 ...

      A soldier protected by a superthread will be surprised when he is stitched with a burst of 7,62-5,56 from a submachine gun.
      Well, at least there is something and that is good.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 25 January 2021 06: 20
        +8
        Quote: Lech from Android.
        A soldier protected by a superthread will be surprised when he is stitched with a burst of 7,62-5,56 from a submachine gun.

        On the "ancient"but appreciated nonetheless by me personally, for their protective properties and ease of wearing, bulletproof vests of the 6B-12 series, completely different data were indicated ...



        About pistol BPs, not a word at all ...
        1. Insurgent
          Insurgent 25 January 2021 07: 47
          +2
          Quote: Insurgent
          On the "ancient", but nevertheless appreciated by me personally, for their protective properties and ease of wearing, bulletproof vests of the 6B-12 series, completely different data were indicated ...


          More applicable to real conditions of use - (exploitation).
    2. Ka-52
      Ka-52 25 January 2021 06: 09
      0
      But, in practice, a soldier is shot more often from 7,62-5,56 (from an automatic machine gun), or, as in our ("private") "Donetsk" case, - 7,62-5,45 ...

      and how does this relate to the text in the article?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 25 January 2021 06: 22
          +3
          The protection of the soldier's life is bound

          the article lists the characteristics of the product. What are the questions or doubts? Do you think that the ballistic resistance of the material is not sufficient? And for some reason, our colleagues from other countries consider their products, even with lower characteristics, to provide reliable protection for a fighter.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 25 January 2021 06: 27
            +3
            Quote: Ka-52
            the article lists the characteristics of the product. What are the questions or doubts? Do you think that the ballistic resistance of the material is not sufficient?


            Where is it a did you see in my comment? belay

            "I will not see it, I will think it up "?
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 25 January 2021 06: 33
              +6
              But, in practice, a soldier is shot more often from 7,62-5,56 (from an automatic machine gun), or, as in our ("private") "Donetsk" case, - 7,62-5,45 ...

              the article lists a number of characteristics. For some reason, you expressed doubts that the material would not stand up to 5,45 and 7,62 ammunition. Otherwise, what is your phrase? If memory is short, look up the comments.
              In fact, any security elements are tested for dozens of parameters. These include not only penetration at different distances by various ammunition, but also resistance to environmental influences, combustion, wear, etc. If the material passes the tests and comes to the manufacture of PPE with the assignment of a resistance class, then why talk?
            2. Ka-52
              Ka-52 25 January 2021 06: 39
              +1
              besides the minus, arguments will still be? By the way, a double-barreled submachine gun firing two calibers at once, is this some kind of new development? laughing
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 25 January 2021 08: 24
          -3
          I read the memoirs of General Lebed, during a raid on Afghanistan, he demanded that the soldiers wear bulletproof vests, the soldiers ignored, then he took a bulletproof vest and decided to demonstrate to them the achievements of Soviet scientists from a distance of 100 meters, the bulletproof vest was pierced through. Then he canceled the requirements for soldiers.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 25 January 2021 08: 35
            +7
            Quote: aybolyt678
            I read the memoirs of General Lebed, during a raid on Afghanistan, he demanded that the soldiers wear bulletproof vests, the soldiers ignored, then he took a bulletproof vest and decided to demonstrate to them the achievements of Soviet scientists from a distance of 100 meters, the bulletproof vest was pierced through. Then he canceled the requirements for soldiers.


            I have already described mine "DNR experience"for testing armor-plating (steel and used) and with rather old used vests.

            From "LPS, 7,62x54, from a distance of 200 meters," armor ", even the old one -"Afghan", if it hits" normal "armor plate - will save ...
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 25 January 2021 13: 32
              0
              indeed, he wrote about some kind of experimental model
          2. Runway
            Runway 25 January 2021 10: 18
            +2
            A tale from the crypt. The battalion commander canceled the Commander's Order - laughing
            Plates / bibs in the BZ were counted at readiness reviews, because the brain for 200/300 was carried out with entry or nss / removal.
          3. Togilen
            Togilen 25 January 2021 19: 43
            +1
            In Afghanistan, initially there were Zh-81 splinter vests made of TSVM-J fabric, which, apart from the inconvenience of carrying them on themselves, did not give nichert, and then a treshka made of VT-23 titanium, which would break through from 100-80 m (and sometimes even less) 7,62, XNUMX to the lung.
    3. Hagen
      Hagen 25 January 2021 09: 53
      -4
      Quote: Insurgent
      But, in practice, a soldier is shot more often from 7,62-5,56 (from an automatic machine gun), or, as in our ("private") "Donetsk" case, - 7,62-5,45 ...

      Do you take practice from personal impressions? Medicine says that defeat in battle is not always limited to direct bullets hitting a person. In different conflicts, several damaging factors are present in different proportions .... It is important to find a balance between defense and mobility in this defense.
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 25 January 2021 11: 18
        +5
        [quoteDo you take practice from personal impressions?] [/ quote]
        It is from them, "personal" ... Since I have some experience with communicating with body armor (with penetration through them ...) the benefit is not my own experience) ....

        God is merciful yes
        1. Hagen
          Hagen 25 January 2021 11: 23
          -2
          Quote: Insurgent
          It is from them, "personal" ... Since I have some experience with dealing with body armor

          I wish you no further experience gaining yourself. However, I note that personal experience in such matters sometimes even hurts, because it distorts the picture of life. The VO already had an article on this topic "Combat suit. Statistics of injuries, bullets and shrapnel." Short, but still .... I recommend refreshing your memory.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 25 January 2021 13: 56
            +6
            Quote: Hagen

            I wish you no further experience gaining yourself.

            I am afraid that I cannot comply with your wishes, because there was an offer to return to the division from which I left more than a year ago ...
            Now there is a "bargaining" about returning to the same position, and in the same status ...

            And it's not easy, by the way yes , I don't want to "move" anyone from their "familiar places" ...
            1. Hagen
              Hagen 25 January 2021 14: 02
              +2
              Quote: Insurgent
              there was an offer to come back

              If such proposals are received not only by you, but also by your other comrades who have gone to the reserve, then the situation of the LPNR is aggravated and negative changes are expected. Unfortunately.
              Anyway, I wish you luck ... hi
              1. Insurgent
                Insurgent 25 January 2021 14: 04
                +7
                Quote: Hagen
                Quote: Insurgent
                there was an offer to come back

                If such proposals are received not only by you, but also by your other comrades who have gone to the reserve, then the situation of the LPNR is aggravated and negative changes are expected. Unfortunately.
                Anyway, I wish you luck ... hi

                No, the boys just missed lol !(least repeat )

                BUT "запас", he is the" reserve "... I am always ready to take up arms against Bandera ...
    4. yehat2
      yehat2 27 January 2021 13: 52
      +3
      however, shrapnel are more likely to shoot than bullets, at speeds of 300-500ms
      1. Insurgent
        Insurgent 27 January 2021 16: 40
        +4
        Quote: yehat2
        however, shrapnel are more likely to shoot than bullets, at speeds of 300-500ms

        And the fragments, as without them request .... Two cases of ACS, and the defeat is practically "tube-to-tube" in the "lateral projection", in the region of the kidneys-liver ... Thank God, not fatal, but to put it mildly - "not pleasant" ...

        Both with BZ 6B-23 .... there is protection from the sides, in general - NO, taking into account the fact that the armor came to us "heavily used" and in the "pockets of straps", there were no inserts made of aramid ...
        1. yehat2
          yehat2 27 January 2021 16: 48
          +2
          my grandfather went through the whole war in the infantry
          participated in the battle many times. Not a single bullet wound, but received 3 shrapnel
          and the full set - from a bomb, mine and high-explosive shell.
          1. Insurgent
            Insurgent 28 January 2021 09: 18
            0
            Quote: yehat2
            my grandfather went through the whole war in the infantry
            participated in the battle many times. Not a single bullet wound, but received 3 shrapnel
            and the full set - from a bomb, mine and high-explosive shell.


            I will specify - I described real cases, but fortunately, not tested on my own skin.

            To a certain extent - lucky ...
    5. rusboris
      rusboris 29 January 2021 00: 23
      -1
      Anyone can offend a journalist, a windbag. Well, I lied a little, well, I was too lazy to google. Not out of malice, after all, he's just a victim of the exam. He names a respected company, mentions a respected head of a Russian armored company in the sue. The photo was stuck with a pistol bullet. Any composite armor engineer will tell you that an automatic bullet without a ceramic layer will sew through UHMWP like butter. And Israeli armor is just an assembly line from the Dutch and other suppliers.
      ... Of course UHMWP material is good. In the photo, the exposed layers of armor made of ceramics and UHMWP, 12, 7 mm, did not penetrate the armor-piercing incendiary bullet. Armokom makes excellent helmets and body armor using UHMWP. But there is no question of any super duper fiber. Normal production, better than the American one, which is already "a hundred years old at lunchtime." The journalist almost choked with delight before his personal invention of the bicycle. Smiled. That's when we will establish the production of body armor weighing not 15 kg, but 2 kg, with elements of electrical or explosive absorption of the energy of an automatic bullet. Then you can groan with delight - gasp. There are already such patents in Russia. Perhaps they will make armor based on them for our soldiers.
    6. Protos
      Protos 2 February 2021 13: 12
      -1
      In practice, a soldier often dies from fragments of mortar mines and sniper fire!
      Quote: Insurgent
      In practice, a soldier often dies from fragments of mortar mines and sniper fire!

      In practice, a soldier often dies from fragments of mortar mines, VOG grenades and sniper fire! It's right now!
  2. Intruder
    Intruder 25 January 2021 06: 25
    -11%
    The specific strength of the new material is 350 gf / tex (an indicator of the relative breaking load). This is almost 1,5 times higher than the performance of the currently best Kevlar aramid fibers.
    well, just the armor of God !? And so, in a more real reality bully , only - the ratio of tensile strength to weight of UHMWPE is 40% higher than that of aramid compounds of the Kevlar type!
    The listed difficulties caused the creation of a composite based on a new fiber from Tver chemists only in 2020.
    only, these "chemists" were able to create last year, and the whole world has been using it since the 50s of the last century, well ... it is an honor if there is no other request !!!
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 25 January 2021 06: 27
      +9
      only, these "chemists" were able to create last year, and the whole world has been using it since the 50s of the last century, well ... it is an honor if there is no other

      yes, if you do not grimace, then you can easily find in the text the phrase that previously material for personal protection was purchased abroad. And now it can be produced by a Russian manufacturer. The reason for the antics is not clear. In my opinion, this is already a worthy breakthrough. Even if the new Russian material was not inferior to foreign
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 25 January 2021 08: 42
        -1
        Quote: Ka-52
        if you do not grimace, then you can easily find in the text the phrase that earlier material for personal protection was purchased abroad. And now it can be produced by a Russian manufacturer

        He is being purchased now. Ours have been producing this fiber for a long time, but not the highest quality. There are neither technologies nor raw materials for quality.
        Here's from the manufacturer's website:
        Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (UHMWPE) fiber belongs to the group of so-called "superfibers" along with carbon and aramid. High strength and very high wear resistance at a relatively low density (0.96-0.97) g / cm3 makes UHMWPE thread one of the most promising fiber materials in various branches of technology. Unfortunately, the lack of domestic production of raw materials severely constrains the production of these very important fibers. The fact is that the most promising grades of raw materials that are used to obtain ultra-strong fibers do not sell to a Russian manufacturer... And it is expensive for our industry to buy the fibers themselves and their products at a very high price. Fibers from UHMWPE are obtained in two ways - by gel spinning and in the solid phase. Solid state molding is the most promising method, but it requires special properties of raw materials. And the brands of UHMWPE powder that you can buy are processed into fiber only by gel molding, which, however, still not mastered by our industry.
        Unfortunately, due to sanctions, in Russia no raw materials for super-strong fibers are presented... Therefore, the maximum fiber strength that can be achieved from available raw materials is no higher than 0.6 GPa.


        And in fact, the article is a scandalous propaganda paper.
        Also the name - "Super thread". Really? Why not Nano?
        Previously, it always worked, immediately the loot was unfastened with lard.
        Really, without Chubais - everything, nanosharashka is no longer held in high esteem? belay
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 25 January 2021 08: 57
          +3
          He is being purchased now.

          it is understandable. The development described in the article has not yet taken hold on the market.
          There are neither technologies nor raw materials for quality.

          that is, you think that the author of the article is lying and the given indicators are invented?
        2. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 25 January 2021 09: 35
          -5
          You get a reward from the State Department. Receive and sign.
        3. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 25 January 2021 09: 38
          0
          Quote: psiho117
          Ours have been producing this fiber for a long time, but not the highest quality. There are neither technologies nor raw materials for quality.

          This means that they independently mastered both the technologies and the production of raw materials, since it turned out better than Israeli crafts.
          And this is already a real breakthrough.
        4. astepanov
          astepanov 25 January 2021 11: 29
          +4
          Precisely agitation, but rather unintentional. Here's a pearl:
          The new substance was created by Russian chemists from the Research Institute of Synthetic Fiber in Tver.
          This "new substance" is in fact under 70 years old. The author simply does not see the difference between substance and material. UHMWPE was initially perceived abroad as a funny curiosity - due to the lack of processing technologies. So it was necessary to write more modestly: "in Tver they found a way to process UHMWPE into fibers, and those into products." And thank God: you look - there will be a new good armor in the series.
          1. psiho117
            psiho117 25 January 2021 11: 52
            +2
            Quote: astepanov
            it was necessary to write more modestly: "in Tver they found a way to process UHMWPE into fibers, and those into products

            Yes, the fact is that all this has long been known, and is. They began to pull the thread in the 60s of the last century, there is nothing to invent.
            Products from this thread have been made a long time ago, including ours. And threads, and fibers, and sheet material, and films, and filters ... The spectrum is quite diverse, whole factories are engaged in this.
            And damn it, no one calls their products "superfiber" and "superfilm" - there is clearly some kind of crap. I have been allergic to all these Super and Nano consoles for a long time, because in 90 percent this is not just a puff, but also an attempt to raise money for money - the consumer, the state, and anyone else.
            And then they tell us about what turns out to be in Tver new substance created "Super thread" ... Hand-face. belay

            The problem is that what is praised in the article is the gross average product that does not stand out from the competitors. And then, for its production, you need to buy raw materials abroad - because there is no manufacturer of its own. But it’s no better either - high-quality raw materials, from which we can produce something with our level of technology, they don’t sell us, they sell consumer goods. In order to process consumer goods into a quality product, we again do not have technologies ...

            Damn, for some reason I immediately remember the products of our Cinema Fund - how they praise, how they praise ... both on the first channel, and on the second, and interviews with the director, and the audience are questioned ... And you will look - by the way. And so from time to time ...
            1. astepanov
              astepanov 25 January 2021 11: 57
              +1
              Quote: psiho117
              Yes, the fact is that all this has long been known, and is. They began to pull the thread in the 60s of the last century, there is nothing to invent.
              Products from this thread have been made a long time ago, including ours. And threads, and fibers, and sheet material, and films, and filters ... The spectrum is quite diverse, whole factories are engaged in this.

              Ultra high molecular weight? Not out of the ordinary? Will you give me a reference? Or weak?
              1. Dart
                Dart 25 January 2021 13: 24
                +2
                In my opinion, the person has confused the already mastered production and the further development of technology, and does not see the difference ...
                it's like saying that steel was invented a long time ago, everyone is already forging everything, you think, some kind of alloying, damascus and additives, what do they change ...
              2. psiho117
                psiho117 26 January 2021 19: 11
                +1
                Quote: astepanov
                Will you give me a reference? Or weak?

                And in Google is not hosh?
                http://www.formoplast-spb.ru/volokna-svmp/
                The first one on the list.
                1. astepanov
                  astepanov 26 January 2021 19: 20
                  -1
                  Are you really that, or are you pretending? The article confirms that these materials are absolutely new for us, and not at all since the 60s. And TU for material from 2020.
                  There are people, just to argue, without understanding anything in the matter.
                  1. psiho117
                    psiho117 26 January 2021 19: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: astepanov
                    There are people, just to argue, without understanding anything in business

                    Believe it or not, I think the same about you. And there are also a lot of obscene ones - about people who are neither in the forest nor for firewood in the presented topic, but at the same time there is a plug in every barrel
                    Tver, 2007: experimental production
                    http://www.catalysis.ru/block/index.php?ID=3&SECTION_ID=1649
                    Kazan, in 2017 produced about 1000 tons of products per year
                    http://www.kolorit-ind.ru/prod_resh/futerovka_svmpe/polyetilen/
                    Tomsk, also for 17g about 1000 tons per year
                    https://tomsk.bvb-alyans.ru/metallCatalog/1439/
                    Moscow, Polinite - since 1996 in the subject, they themselves produce little raw materials, mainly from someone else's - but the spectrum is large
                    http://polinit-textile.ru/
                    Krasnoyarsk, also from imported raw materials:
                    http://polyceramoplast.ru/

                    Plus, many manufacturers also produce small-scale products, for a wide variety of industries - the threads that are used in the winding of centrifuges for uranium enrichment - this is actually it. All lining for the mining industry or port terminals is also UHMWPE.

                    I don't know what herd of minus clowns ran into this topic (they probably are at least doctors of science in this industry), but you don't belong here.
                    1. astepanov
                      astepanov 26 January 2021 22: 43
                      +2
                      Quote: psiho117
                      They began to pull the thread in the 60s of the last century, there is nothing to invent.
                      Products from this thread have been made a long time ago, including here.

                      Are these your words, or where? Then you have four links, but a lot of guile. 1986 is the date of creation of the Polinite company, not the start of production; 2007 - the development of pilot production (installation and debugging of the line) at VNIISV began, but real results were obtained years later; I know this research institute and have been in contact with them for thirty years. All others are 2017. Again, getting a finished product is not like making fiber. Are you familiar with the content of the article? The consumer is not interested in fiber, but in products made from it.
                      Maybe you will be interested, but the same VNIISV has been developing a non-woven made of ordinary polypropylene for us for five years, and has not yet brought it to mind. And not at all because they are weak specialists: from raw materials to products, you need to do a lot of work and understand a lot of subtleties.
                      Quote: psiho117
                      but you don't belong here
                      But this is not for you to decide: I am a chemist with forty years of experience, with many regalia due to the profession, with patents under a hundred pieces.
                      1. psiho117
                        psiho117 27 January 2021 03: 31
                        -1
                        Quote: astepanov
                        But this is not for you to decide: I am a chemist with forty years of experience.

                        Happy for you smile That was not written to you, but to some silent individuals who stuck 6 minuses under each of my messages.
                        Personally, I am always in favor of a constructive dialogue - if there is anything about it - let's discuss, and not silently minus. Enrages.
                        Next, you have four links, but a bunch of guile

                        Tomsk and Kazan produced more than 2 tons of products per year, for over 000 years, until the installation was installed in Tomsk. Where is the guile?
                        All others are 2017

                        Yes, "Armotech" alone has been making "armor" and helmets from this material for 15 years, what are you talking about? I'm not talking about the lining, and the example I gave with elements of nuclear centrifuges. All this has been produced there for decades.

                        Are you familiar with the content of the article? The consumer is not interested in fiber, but in products made from it.

                        In the article, in addition to the laudatory ode of the "MegaNanoNiti" allegedly invented by them (which is a lie - because the thread was invented by the Dutch back in 1960, and is also produced in Russia, by several factories), and praises of "UltraNiti" in comparison with Israeli products firms (which, again, is cunning, since both samples have average characteristics, and there are much more durable samples on the market), just photos of the same products, the same Armotech, are given.
                        And according to the links given by me, on the websites of other companies - their products.
                        As a result: "Armotech" is great, they really have developed a new method of joining UHMWPE yarn into a composite and forming it. Here is just in the article - not a word about it, instead - some kind of scurrilous propaganda about "the world's largest microcircuits."
                        I bow for this ... hi
                  2. Fat
                    Fat 31 January 2021 02: 55
                    0
                    Alex. hi Since 2000, Japanese braided lines made of PE materials have been available. Expensive but possible. This is really a very strong thread. Obviously, it took some time for such material as molecular polyethylene fiber to come even to fishing. Well, our chemists have come to a good result. I didn’t give you any minuses, you said they didn’t support your point of view. TU is just a technical specification for a product and does not say anything about the novelty of the product itself.
            2. Narak-zempo
              Narak-zempo 25 January 2021 14: 04
              +1
              That is, you fundamentally do not admit that domestic scientists and engineers cannot independently develop technical processes for the manufacture of UHMWPE products, starting from raw materials, at a level no worse than foreign analogues?
              Where does such defeatism come from?
              1. Usher
                Usher 25 January 2021 21: 28
                0
                Quote: Narak-zempo
                That is, you fundamentally do not admit that domestic scientists and engineers cannot independently develop technical processes for the manufacture of UHMWPE products, starting from raw materials, at a level no worse than foreign analogues?
                Where does such defeatism come from?

                According to the manual, he writes, an adherent of anal. 5 column, they are characterized by contradictions, lies, pulling out of context, as well as the words "rash", "scoop". Sometimes they start a dialogue normally, but all the same, then they don't answer questions, but drive their own wave and become personal. They give idiotic examples that are generally off topic and all that. There are plenty of them here.
                1. psiho117
                  psiho117 26 January 2021 19: 17
                  0
                  Quote: Usher
                  anal adept. 5 column,

                  Anal adept welcomes moronic adept wassat
                  But in essence, there is something to say? and then one here says "a link or sent", the second wrote me as an agent of Chaos ... At the same time, operating with such ugly words ...
                  Oh no no no. The psychological age of the individual is immediately visible.
                  Both hi
                  1. businessv
                    businessv 26 January 2021 21: 57
                    +2
                    Quote: psiho117
                    The psychological age of the individual is immediately visible.
                    Maybe a psychological crisis, not age? Or is it age? Why get personal? I read your correspondence, but your post with such content is disappointing! hi
                    1. psiho117
                      psiho117 27 January 2021 02: 31
                      0
                      Quote: businessv
                      Why get personal? I read your correspondence, but your post with such content is disappointing!

                      Ha! Me, znachitstsa in the "fifth column" and "State Department Agents" are ranked, I'm offended !!!
                      Nimagu to keep quiet !!! wassat
                      We are all human, we are all human ... Sometimes we get carried away.
                      1. businessv
                        businessv 27 January 2021 12: 31
                        +1
                        Quote: psiho117
                        Ha! Me, znachitstsa in the "fifth column" and "State Department Agents" are ranked, I'm offended !!!

                        Where did you see this and where does your thought go, what comes up with such conclusions ?! I only wrote that you shouldn't get personal, that's all! hi
                      2. psiho117
                        psiho117 27 January 2021 13: 01
                        +2
                        Quote: businessv
                        Where did you see it and where does your thought go

                        Well, actually, your comment was under mine - and that, respectively, under this answer to my other comment:
                        Quote: Usher
                        According to the manual, he writes, an adherent of anal. 5 column, they are characterized by contradictions, lies, pulling out of context, as well as the words "rash", "scoop".

                        This was followed by my reaction:
                        Anal adept welcomes moronic adept

                        So, I hope you understand? laughing
                        And in general, we somehow slipped into some kind of offtopic ...
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 26 January 2021 06: 26
        0
        Also the name - "Super thread". Really? Why not Nano?
        Previously, it always worked, immediately the loot was unfastened with lard.
        nope, better: "Ultra Thread" :))), or at least: "Cosmo Thread" !? :)
  3. Quadro
    Quadro 25 January 2021 07: 39
    +4
    Quote: Intruder
    The specific strength of the new material is 350 gf / tex (an indicator of the relative breaking load). This is almost 1,5 times higher than the performance of the currently best Kevlar aramid fibers.
    well, just the armor of God !? And so, in a more real reality bully , only - the ratio of tensile strength to weight of UHMWPE is 40% higher than that of aramid compounds of the Kevlar type!
    The listed difficulties caused the creation of a composite based on a new fiber from Tver chemists only in 2020.
    only, these "chemists" were able to create last year, and the whole world has been using it since the 50s of the last century, well ... it is an honor if there is no other request !!!

    Proofs will be what was used already in the 50s? Exactly the same. Otherwise, just another scratching with the tongue.
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 25 January 2021 08: 00
      -1
      Proofs will be what is already used in the 50s
      the first list of Google search results! Or have you already blocked it ??? laughing
      1. Quadro
        Quadro 25 January 2021 18: 17
        0
        Quote: Intruder
        Proofs will be what is already used in the 50s
        the first list of Google search results! Or have you already blocked it ??? laughing

        What does Google have to do with it? Proofs billy. And I also clarified for the very smart - exactly the same. That's exactly the same.
        1. Intruder
          Intruder 26 January 2021 06: 11
          0
          And I also clarified for the very smart - exactly the same. That's exactly the same.
          more specifically comrade, more specifically :))), what exactly is the same ???, or you oil on the surface ... :)
          What does Google have to do with it? Proofs billy.
          for the blind, there are also voice assistants who read text in search, why Google !? Well, okay, no one restricts the use of another search service to obtain public information on the global network ...
    2. psiho117
      psiho117 25 January 2021 08: 34
      -1
      Quote: Quadro
      Proofs will be what was used already in the 50s? Exactly the same.

      So yes, it was opened in the 50s, the thread was industrially pulled in the 60s.
      The technology is pretty old.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 26 January 2021 06: 15
        0
        The technology is pretty old.
        thank you, but okay, that the old and well-known in almost hundreds of countries at this time, China provides 30% of the world production of this supermolecular for industry for export, just in the article it is how to present it from the field of high conquests ... wink
  4. Togilen
    Togilen 27 January 2021 15: 17
    -2
    Wow, how many rubbish minusars have rolled. Believing in a bright future being a shkolota with parents and grandmothers is cool, the rest are just Moscow progandonists from the star so apparently brainwashed what they think - From damn it! We have it. And from what it I do not care.
    Let's "citizens")
  • Intruder
    Intruder 25 January 2021 06: 28
    0
    An important achievement for the Russian defense industry was that the country was able to produce a new class of protective products based on materials
    in the Soviet Union, used in the combined armoring of the MBT tower of different models, a filler made of "supermolecular" with ceramic elements made of porcelain, and this is back in the 60s, the last century! Apparently they shook off the dust from the archival records ... heritage wink
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 25 January 2021 06: 35
      0
      in the Soviet Union, used in the combined armoring of the MBT turret of different models,

      So what? This is bad? Or just a reason to cheer?
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 26 January 2021 06: 16
        +1
        So what? This is bad?
        in short, nothing is bad ... winked
    2. alex-cn
      alex-cn 25 January 2021 08: 07
      0
      compared a tank with a soldier, it's not on a 1000-horsepower engine, but on a hump ... But I was confused by the strong deflection after a bullet, probably a ceramic (or some other) plate will still have to be installed to increase the area of ​​impact redistribution
      1. Togilen
        Togilen 25 January 2021 19: 45
        +2
        He will be wrapped with aramid "around" + anti-injury
      2. businessv
        businessv 26 January 2021 21: 59
        0
        Quote: alex-cn
        the plate will still have to be installed to increase the area of ​​impact redistribution

        Yes, apparently so, otherwise the trauma beyond the barrier will not be weak!
  • Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 25 January 2021 06: 29
    +2
    Still, chemists would have built a transparent composite with the same characteristics, it would be incredible cool!
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 25 January 2021 07: 30
      -3
      Another would be a transparent composite chemists built with the same characteristics
      Indeed, a "transparent" armor structure would be more in demand than just a new type of supermolecular fiber ...!
    2. Quadro
      Quadro 25 January 2021 07: 38
      +2
      What's the point? Anyway, everything and everywhere is then covered with metal, cloth and other things.
      1. Intruder
        Intruder 25 January 2021 07: 59
        -3
        Anyway, everything and everywhere is then covered with metal, cloth and so on.
        meaning, in booking glazing where needed ...
    3. psiho117
      psiho117 25 January 2021 08: 36
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Another would be a transparent composite chemists built with the same characteristics


      There are such works, cast in a strong magnetic field.
      Expensive. request
      1. Togilen
        Togilen 25 January 2021 19: 53
        +4
        Yeah, and I also need to mention the ditched Plexiglas in Dzerzhinsk. With him, by the way, we also lost the production of methyl methacrylate. Without any "magnetic fields"
    4. AUL
      AUL 25 January 2021 08: 37
      +3
      I would like to wait for this super thread to appear in fishing stores. In unwinding 200 m each, with a diameter of 0.03 to 0.13 mm ...
      1. psiho117
        psiho117 25 January 2021 11: 25
        -4
        Quote: AUL
        I would like to wait for this super thread to appear in fishing stores.

        You will laugh, but she is there. Networks make of it hi
        1. Togilen
          Togilen 27 January 2021 13: 35
          0
          No, not from her. There the thread is Korean or Japanese. Capacities for the production of ballistic UHMWPE were in Tomsk and for its raw materials in Kalinin. There is a plant in Kazan, but it produces the wrong UHMWPE. It's like PET (PET), there is a textile to which more requirements are imposed, and there is a bottle preform.
      2. Intruder
        Intruder 26 January 2021 06: 17
        -1
        when this super thread hits fishing stores. In unwinding 200 m each, with a diameter of 0.03 to 0.13 mm ...
        200 rubles per meter !?
        1. AUL
          AUL 26 January 2021 08: 54
          +2
          Quote: Intruder
          200 rubles per meter !?

          No, this is overkill! But for 20 - I would strain and take!
          1. Intruder
            Intruder 26 January 2021 09: 12
            +1
            But for 20 - I would strain and take!
            I'm certainly not a fisherman, before I was engaged in "other fishing", just wondering why the classic materials in the fishing line do not suit !?
            1. AUL
              AUL 26 January 2021 09: 20
              +2
              In order not to anger the moderators with a flood, I will answer in a personal.
              1. psiho117
                psiho117 26 January 2021 19: 57
                0
                I do not know for what reason the cons - but the networks really do - at least the same Polinite.
                1. AUL
                  AUL 26 January 2021 20: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: psiho117
                  I do not know for what reason the cons - but the networks really do - at least the same Polinite.

                  From "Supernity", the release of which has not yet been launched? belay
                  1. psiho117
                    psiho117 26 January 2021 20: 15
                    0
                    From UHMWPE. Like many other products, dozens of manufacturers.
                    And "Super thread" is nothing. In conditions when the raw materials are all foreign, even Super, even Nano name. One bullshit.
    5. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 25 January 2021 09: 41
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Still, chemists would have built a transparent composite with the same characteristics, it would be incredible cool!

      So after all, they did it a long time ago, however, not a composite: http://vpetrik.com/en/development/prozrachnaya_bronya_petrika/
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 25 January 2021 09: 47
        0
        Quote: Narak-zempo
        http://vpetrik.com/en/development/prozrachnaya_bronya_petrika/
        Rotten humorok, sir.
        1. Narak-zempo
          Narak-zempo 25 January 2021 09: 49
          +2
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Rotten humorok, sir.

          You tend to see rotten humor everywhere.
          Here, read the experts: https://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/1486759.html
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 25 January 2021 09: 52
            0
            Okay Petrik is not humor, ok, but where
            Quote: Narak-zempo
            Another would be a transparent composite chemists built with the same characteristics
            Where is the density small and the weight?
  • Maki maki
    Maki maki 25 January 2021 08: 42
    +18
    Russian material with high protective properties. Its production can be deployed directly in Russia

    Is there a variant of transferring production abroad? Only in Russia!
  • nsm1
    nsm1 25 January 2021 09: 14
    -1
    The disadvantage of this super thread is that it softens at + 110C.
    1. Insurgent
      Insurgent 25 January 2021 09: 40
      +7
      Quote: nsm1
      The disadvantage of this super thread is that it softens at + 110C.

      I myself can hardly stand boiling at 110 degrees (C), (in an autoclave?)
      1. nsm1
        nsm1 25 January 2021 18: 05
        +3
        Who said it was only for a fighter?
        With this density, this composite looks great on flying machines.
        Only here it is only impossible or difficult for them to book the engine.
  • Esaul
    Esaul 25 January 2021 09: 48
    -5
    Ideally, the bullet should ricochet from the body armor to the exact source of the shot.
    1. Narak-zempo
      Narak-zempo 25 January 2021 16: 24
      0
      Quote: Esaul
      Ideally, the bullet should ricochet from the body armor to the exact source of the shot.

      Ideally, a Russian warrior should throw bullets with strength of mind.
    2. Intruder
      Intruder 26 January 2021 06: 19
      0
      Ideally, the bullet should ricochet from the body armor to the exact source of the shot.
      the angle of incidence is always equal to the angle of reflection, there is no other way - in this part of the Universe!
  • Svateev
    Svateev 25 January 2021 12: 37
    0
    The other day, the Americans said that their experimental body armor made of UHMWPE, when tested in the troops, did not confirm the protective properties declared by the manufacturer:
    "During the initial testing, various versions of three of the four armor plates - notably ESBI, ESAPI, XSAPI - did not meet the requirements for ballistic protection."
    https://taskandpurpose.com/military-tech/army-body-armor-plates-evaluation/

    A marriage of an American manufacturer? Or does UHMWPE have no advertised properties at all?
    Or misinformation, so that we stop working on UHMWPE?
  • Vadim Ananyin
    Vadim Ananyin 25 January 2021 14: 41
    0
    Protection is always needed, if the data of the material is such, then it's not all bad.
    Now a lot of things have appeared that they had never dreamed of before, I had a familiar veteran; he didn’t have a part of his skull cap - he wore a cap all the time. He fought in a hat and a German explosive bp used then already. Protection increases the chance, we already have few people every day.
  • Togilen
    Togilen 25 January 2021 19: 22
    +3
    Well, now a ladle of tar. This "second" UHMWPE invented at one time produced a unit at Tomskneftekhim in the amount of 2000 t / year. It doesn't work now. And VNIISV has 40-50 tons of this UHMWPE)
    It was not UHMWPE that was invented, but a binder for this composite and its molding.
    Well, and most importantly, because at Sibur, that installation died, we no longer have such a production, but at the same time instead of copying the Tomsk installation (and the quality of UHMWPE met the standards of other manufacturers, of which there are only five installations in the world with a total capacity of 170 thousand tons / year), there is an unnecessary debate "do not need". There is still hope for the Republic of Tatarstan and Moscow Region to advance the production of the required composites. Remind me what happened to the carbon fiber for the MC-21? Consumption according to it, based on the production volume of 60 thousand cylinders per year, is quite decent and comparable to the production volume of the operating line "Alabuga - Fiber". It was known for a long time that Umatex on the existing line in Alabuga will not be able to receive carbon fiber that meets the quality requirements of DPO "Plastic" and "AeroComposite-Ulyanovsk". In general, this is not "ultra high tenacity fiber" for you. In Russian this means: neither for space, nor for aircraft, and not for cylinders. Three Japanese companies produce carbon fiber for these industries: Toray, TOHO TENAX, and Mitsubishi Rayon, as well as a small company from South Korea. DPO "Plastic" (and, probably, "AeroComposite") is guided by them.
    Well, it remains to add the text from the "roadmap" I copied for the development of the production of chemical fibers from our Ministry of Industry and Trade (year 13-15, they already had 5 of them for sure):
    "Raw material supply of aramid fibers and threads.
    Currently in the Russian Federation there is a production
    two components for the production of aramid fibers and yarns:
    softener M-2 (PJSC "Khimprom", Novocheboksarsk) and terephthaloyl chloride
    (hereinafter “BSK” JSC), the purchase of the rest is carried out abroad - in the USA,
    Germany, Ukraine, etc.
    Due to the strategic importance of aramid fibers and yarns for
    ensuring the country's defense, the lack of production of components in
    the production chain makes it completely dependent on imports.
    Modern technologies for the production of softener M-2 (instead of
    obsolete technology at PJSC "Khimprom") and chloroparaphenylenediamine
    (monomer MD, HPPDA) are being developed at the FKP “Plant named after Ya.M.
    Sverdlov "(FKP" ZIS ") together with LLC" Fenil "and JSC" GIPROIV ".
    In addition, FKP "ZIS" together with JSC "GosNII" Kristall "
    a technology for producing paranitrotoluene has been developed.
    In order to completely eliminate the dependence of domestic producers
    aramid materials from foreign suppliers of monomers and
    semi-finished products, a project of a target complex program has been developed (hereinafter -
    CCU).
    The project of the TsKP provides for the development of technologies for obtaining ten
    components and the issuance of initial data for the design of their production
    37
    modern technologies of monochlorobenzene, 2,4-dichloronitrobenzene, 2,4
    dinitroaniline, phosgene / triphosgene, 4-nitrotoluene, 4-nitrobenzoic
    acid, 4-nitrobenzoyl chloride, 4-nitrochlorobenzene, 3,4-
    dichloronitrobenzene and 2 chloro-4-nitroaniline.
    In addition, JSC "BSK" carries out work on the organization of domestic
    production of paraphenylenediamine (PFDA).
    In addition, in terms of R&D on the creation of production of raw materials
    components of JSC "Federal Research and Production Center" Altai "developed a technology for obtaining
    dimethylacetamide.
    The established production of DMAA and the developed technological
    the process of obtaining it will be based on the use of domestic raw materials:
    dimethylamine (ANK PJSC "NK" Rosneft ") and acetic acid
    (JSC "Nevinomyssky Azot"). "
    It remains to add - GIPROIV is bankrupt. And it is FKP named after Sverdlov (FKP ZIS) that bankrupts him good
    in the amount of 272 million rubles. So think about how we have there with armored vehicles which are 70% from the USA, Germany and Ukraine.
    More of the jokes:
    "The process of phosgenation of dicarboxylic aromatic acids (isomeric phthalic acids) has long been well known, but it is undeservedly forgotten in Russia. It is sad that the basic project for the production of terephthaloyl chloride, isophthaloyl chloride was carried out by us twice, not for Russian customers, but for our Middle Eastern neighbors based on the technology that was successfully working at the Dzerzhinsk plant "Caprolactam". A similar situation with the initial technological data for the same products. "
    https://newsnn.ru/article/general/11-03-2019/v-nizhegorodskoy-oblasti-rastet-chislo-bankrotstv
    https://bankrot.fedresurs.ru/OrganizationCard.aspx?ID=75154FD20AA0BC98DE0408907A33549A&attempt=1
    And the very scheme of the aramid production looks like this. On get confused minus drivers)
    1. Intruder
      Intruder 26 January 2021 11: 18
      +2
      Well, now a ladle of tar.
      Something like a big spoon, and so mournfully - all over the topic area ...
      Thank you for this comment with a visual overview and diagram (+1 from me personally ...) drinks
      1. Togilen
        Togilen 27 January 2021 13: 50
        +1
        Thank you! I worked at Sibvolokno in front of KAMAZ at the Viscose-85 site, which was known to me and to that guy. The team thought they would produce new hydrated cellulose fibers, but no, SVM thread, then the project was reworked at Armos, the equipment had to be changed partially, mainly in the chemical department.


        1. Intruder
          Intruder 27 January 2021 14: 03
          +1
          Not at all, honestly ... !!! hi Novorossiyskie (new mode :() effective .., loved many industries of industrial chemistry on the territory of an immense country, but now they are "puffed up" by inventing miracles every year ... (for a grub, working out in restaurants can be seen), something all new and well forgotten old ... winked
          1. Togilen
            Togilen 27 January 2021 14: 56
            +2
            As additional protection of the BTR-82AT that I saw .... in the 88th year. And all sorts of "Syrian experiments" which are in fact Chechen and specifically Afghan so that our "taxpayers" are not scared. Amazing.
            By the way, the fabric for a hidden vest was developed under Alexander Vasilyevna Volokhina in the late 80s and early 90s when I was just a technologist at a pilot plant in Krasnoyarsk-45, we looked at the molding methods, the solution of the precipitation bath (98% sulfuric acid + LiCl), the molding speed on machines that were built on special order at the Kiev "Stand" (former KEM). A lot of all sorts of jokes. Assisted actively Zavolskiy KhZ named after Kalinin on textile auxiliary substances, Novocheb, Saratov and Dzerzhinsk.
            And so our VNIIVlon (then SVM) was created under the leadership of G.I. Kudryavtsev.
            In the 90s they made a "Tverlan" thread, which later Mrs. Musina and her deputy son Musin from Lirsot patented as "Arlana". It's good that the men "from under it" pulled out the armalon thread (which in a quantity of 5 tons / year) is made in Klin at the former experimental viscose plant of the Klinvolokno combine.
            But to the first level, as DuPont does at 100 thousand tons / year (in different countries at their factories), our output has not reached. Kamensvolokno the same Ruslan (aka Rusar - Russian Aramid) is produced in a quantity of 350 t / year on average, with an industry demand of 1500-2000 t / year in such threads.
            A little more (and RT in 2016 was seized by VNIISV) and to a brighter future we will fly not on PD-14, but as in the XNUMXth century on barge haulers ...
            1. Intruder
              Intruder 27 January 2021 15: 07
              -1
              A little more (and RT in 2016 was seized by VNIISV) and to a brighter future we will fly not on PD-14, but as in the XNUMXth century on barge haulers ...
              Well ... it’s full of you ..., somehow sadly, right hand treacherously: "to shoot someone stretches ..." angry maybe there is still a chance, at least to the countries of the second world and in chemistry, or everything floated away ..., so it floated away !? repeat
              1. Togilen
                Togilen 27 January 2021 15: 31
                +1
                And these are the facts that exist today. Here, all sorts of schoolchildren can put at least a hundred minuses to me, but since 2013 our "new" road maps of the Ministry of Industry and Trade have not moved beyond the office and buffet ...
                And to produce special chemicals in the countries of the "second world" for those who in the USSR produced everything in this regard - well .... how to say.
  • senima56
    senima56 1 March 2021 21: 39
    0
    Super-fighter in super-ammunition, and in the hands of ..... "super" - PM !!!! negative